#49 Alfred Ongere Part 1 Bridging Telecom and AI: Lessons Learned in Tech

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
where I used to go and make calls.
So you need to find coins, gothere, slide them in, then call
your parents.
You have to go and queue whenthere's a long queue.
So I was like this is veryinefficient, so like if there's
an area that allows us toimprove this then, if it's
telecom, then that was, like now, the area I wanted to focus on

(00:20):
and it was closely related toelectrical engineering.
So electrical engineering waslike the, what you are aiming
for.
Yeah.
But when you didn't get that now, I decided to do telecom.

Speaker 3 (00:34):
Ah yeah, so eventually you did your form.
Form three.
Form four yeah.
And performed really well.

Speaker 1 (00:42):
Yeah, yeah, you can try and guess.
What did I get If I startedwith 410, yeah, and then the
natural selection.
What do you think I got?

Speaker 3 (00:54):
Man, since you're here, why should I say Okay, I?

Speaker 1 (00:57):
got an A A I got an A of 79 points.

Speaker 3 (01:03):
Ah, so you missed like one point, two points.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
I felt bad man, I was like it was just two points and
then I get a clean A, and thenI get that time.
My first election course waselectrical engineering.
Uon.
And then I think my second orthird selection was
telecommunications engineer atmultimedia.
Yeah, so I missed.

(01:29):
So because I got the A minor, Imissed out the cutoff points
For.

Speaker 3 (01:35):
UON For UON.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah, so when there were that period of selecting
the course, if you want tochange, yeah, I changed very
quickly.
To I put telecom as the firstchoice.
I didn't want to.
I was hearing these stories ofguys that you get thrown into a
course you didn't select, You'retaken to education or something

(01:56):
.
I didn't want that.
I wanted a sure bet If I takethis course.
It's the one I wanted.
Luckily, I got it.

Speaker 3 (02:06):
Which university multimedia.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
I landed at multimedia.
Okay, yeah, that I met was aconstituent of jquot.
Yeah, it had not yet gotten thechatter, so you are the last
group that our syllabus was thejquot syllabus.
So if you are graduating I geta jquot SAT, but the coursework
we were doing it in multimedia.
So we were the last group.

(02:28):
So the groups that came afterus the certificate they get they
were multimedia university.

Speaker 3 (02:35):
Oh, okay, yeah, Ah, interesting.
So how is that experience inmultimedia?
Multimedia is on your way toRongai, right?
Yes, on your way to Rongai,just before you get to wrong.

Speaker 1 (02:51):
yeah yeah, multimedia was very the first person,
actually I've never had, yeah,yeah.
Second selection was multimediasick.
Yeah, my second selection wasbecause of the course why didn't
you choose jquart?

Speaker 4 (02:59):
or the cut off, I think it was the cut off points.

Speaker 1 (03:03):
Yeah, so they had slightly lower cutoff points
than Jquart, so that's why Ichose them.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Did they show it on the selection?
Because last time I did myselection I didn't see that.
I was like you know when thatis and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
At the time they were showing.
So you think there were aboutfour subjects.
You select, say the physics,biology, you use them to
calculate and then you get atotal.
So that total is what forms ofit lets you know whether you
qualify, if you have a chance tojoin the university you want?

(03:38):
Yeah, so at that time I thinkmultimedia had a slightly lower
cutoff point than jayquat.
So that's why I chose it.
I didn't want to give it a verywide bet and then get thrown in
one.
I just wanted to be very sureand you're doing food science.

Speaker 3 (03:58):
I do want to do food science or sports or education I
do want that, it's quitefrustrating.
Actually, it's a very big, bigproblem, because imagine you're
doing something you never evenimagined.
You'd do Well, you'll do if youdon't have any other option,
but it's not the best way tolook at it, so you go to
multimedia.

(04:18):
By then they used to havehostels and all that.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, surprisingly it had some of the best hostels,
because I think I went toJ-Quart, I think I went to KU, I
had friends in KU, friends inJ-Quart.
So, from what you could see,our hostels were really actually
very good.
Very good eh.
Yeah, the facilities were verygood.
There's this news feature.
I saw it was on N okay, so theywere highlighting how

(04:51):
multimedia they hadtele-learning, where you're in
your room, the lecturer issomewhere else in class and it's
like a zoom class sort andyou're able to learn.
So that really spiked myinterest.
I was like what?
This is the school I selected.
I'm headed in the rightdirection.

Speaker 3 (05:12):
And then it was even before COVID and all that.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
Yeah, that was before COVID, but I never experienced
that when I was there at thattime.
I think maybe they wereimplementing it, maybe for some
other classes, but in ourengineering classes we had to go
to class.

Speaker 3 (05:30):
Okay, so you report to multimedia.
Yes, and you're doingtelecommunications?
Was it five years, four years,five years, five years yeah.
How was that experiencearriving in multimedia?

Speaker 1 (05:42):
It was interesting First time in Nairobi, so I
always joke it's the rural urbanmigration you're learning about
in GHC.
I don't know if you.

Speaker 3 (05:52):
Yeah, geography, you must have done GHC.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, social studies class.
I think some people here didsocial studies.
But anyway yeah.
So rural urban migration Firsttime in Nairobi.
So it was an eye-openingexperience being there,
interacting with people fromdifferent areas, cultures and

(06:19):
all that diversity.
It was really interesting.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (06:24):
And in this case, you meet new people from all over
the country.
Yeah.
And some of them are more,maybe smarter.

Speaker 1 (06:33):
Yes, hey, natural selection version three yeah,
you meet people who are verysharp, People who are very
focused, People who are reallygeeked out.
Then you realize hey, yeah, meI'm not geeked out.
Me, I'm just, I'm aspiring yeah.

(06:54):
So it's again.
You just settle in your bracketof you, do what you can.
Where curiosity takes you outof class, you explore that.
Yeah, and then you justcontinued life yeah but I was, I
was not.
I was not one of those uh uhgeeks in class.
Yeah, I was more of uh tryingto explore outside the the class

(07:19):
.
So, like looking at what you'relearning in class, like yeah,
if it's material science,statistics, all those things
like how are they being appliedout in the real world?

Speaker 3 (07:29):
Yeah, so you're more of a community guy from
university.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
Yes, so how I can answer that?
I had some curiosity aroundwebsite web development.
There was a computer club inthe university and they were
teaching basic HTML, so Idecided to go and check that out
.
That sparked my interest incomputer science and then came

(07:58):
across some opportunities, somevolunteer opportunities to teach
kids how to code.
That program is called kidscomp camp, but that time it's
still being run by a guy calleduh caleb daca.
There's a very interestingstory where I'll mention caleb
later on.
Yes, yeah, so kids comp camp is.
It was sort of my first umexperience dipping into

(08:22):
community work.
Yeah, so we were going toKibera to volunteer with our
laptops.
We carried our laptops.
We went to teach kids in Kiberahow to use computers and we
were focusing on a gaminglanguage.
I don't know if it was calledKodu or something.
I've forgotten the name.
But, we were basically teachingthem how to program using
gaming, so that was my firstexperience.

Speaker 3 (08:46):
Engagement with the community?
Yes, and this is in your secondyear, or first year, or third
year.

Speaker 1 (08:50):
This was in my, I think, third year.
Third year, yes.
Third year, yes, interesting.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
So by this time you have gauged telecommunication
and you see, this is what youwant to do.

Speaker 1 (09:03):
Yes, at the final year, yes, gauged
telecommunication.
And you see, this is what youwant to do.
Yes, yes, I know, I know I wantto work at a telecom company.
I know I want to do work atCisco and all that.
Like I, I had a guiding north.
I knew what I wanted to do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So even by that time in secondyear my first internship I got

(09:26):
an internship at Telecom TelecomKenya.
That time it was called Orangeand it was a very eye-opening
experience.
So the things I'd learned inclass for two years that already
got me job ready, such that Ieven got an offer to to continue
with the job.
Okay, and I got an internshipextension of one month and then

(09:50):
I was given an option do youwant to continue?
Do you want to go back toschool?
So it's like if what I'velearned in two years can get me
to be a telecom engineer, yeah,then I want to do the whole beat
and see what I'll get at theend.
So, yeah, I decided to go backand continue with it.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Yeah, and what would you attribute to that course
that really it's that good.
By second year, third year, youare ready for the market.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
I think it's a mix.
I can't remember all of them, Idon't know.
Digital electronics, analogelectronics.

Speaker 3 (10:24):
Was it more practical .

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Yeah, multimedia was practical.
I mean, we used to go to thelab.
We had a lab where you had thisequipment for testing frequency
, electricity and so on.
It was actually a verypractical course, especially on
the hardware side, becausemultimedia it used to be one of
the training centers for telecom.

Speaker 3 (10:47):
Orange.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Yeah, they had a training college for
telecommunications, so theequipment they were using to
train employees was still there.
And that is what we were beingexposed to, so it was very, very
relevant.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
Yeah, and even from the name.
Actually, now that I thinkabout, it it was established for
multimedia you know, such asKBC and the rest.
That is media houses.
Because, also I understand, inthe fourth year I did computer
science.
So there was a unit, selectiveunit like covers four units.

(11:22):
It is a multimedia.
It was called, I think,multimedia something.
So it's the science behindmultimedia, that is, recording
the content and then compressingit and storing it as digital.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
So there's cloud there.
It was really interesting howradio stations, how radio
frequencies work.
Yeah, it's a very relevantcourse, if you understand.
Yes, it is telecommunications.
You get what is beingadvertised is what you get.
Yeah, yeah, so I'd say it's ahighly relevant course.

Speaker 3 (11:59):
Sure, sure, very, very relevant, yeah, and it's
also highly used in military.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 3 (12:07):
In your mind did you think I should be?

Speaker 1 (12:11):
Yeah, so during the time guys were looking for
internships or places they aretalking about being hired.
I think KDF came up or just themilitary came up, because
they're out in the field andthey need to communicate with
each other, with theirwalkie-talkies and all that.
So, it's very relevant.

Speaker 3 (12:31):
And in the airports and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
Yes, and then there was the SDR, so software-defined
radios, or just the softwareelement of radio engineering.
So it was very interesting Atthat time.
We even encountered that in ourcoursework, so it sort of

(12:54):
prepared us for the industry.
But of course, starting withthe past, you start with the
analog and then you come to thedigital.

Speaker 3 (13:03):
Yeah, so you do that alongside the analog and then
you come to the digital.
Yeah, so you do that alongsidethe community and then you
choose to go back to school tofinish up.
Right, how was that for you?

Speaker 1 (13:13):
It was very insightful.
So when I go back to class, atleast I knew the things I was
now, the things I'd noticedwhile working.
I was coming across them evenin the coursework the third year
, fourth year and fifth year.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
So it was more relatable for you More relatable
more practical, yeah.
Oh, that's interesting.
Now, actually we have anothertelecommunication engineer in
the house, but left one mic.
This could be very, veryinteresting, but of course maybe
there will be another partwhere we deep dive.
Actually, I feel like we shoulddo telecommunication as a topic

(13:52):
and talk about these things.
There are so many peopleactually in the community who
reach out asking you know whenthey have done their KCSE.
Oh, someone wants to choosecomputer science.
Which university offers thebest?
I think that could be a reallyinteresting discussion going
forward.
So once you do all this, I'msure you know how was the

(14:18):
personal life Were you in thepeer pressure where you're
looking for a girlfriend inmultimedia.
No Natural selection, it justhappens if they are supposed to
happen, but they didn't happenfor you.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Yes, we were first year.
Second year we were a group offriends Maybe one of my friends
who were with him in high school.
At that time he was the onlyone among us who had a laptop,
so every time we were done withthe class we used to go to his
room play nfs.
Uh-huh, finished all the levelsof nfs.
Oh, need for speed ah, need forspeed.

Speaker 3 (14:51):
Yeah, that is where the car is.
Yeah, the car is racing.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah, yeah, it was.
It was a really there's no timefor fun okay, we were that
group of uh, of guys who don'twant to say we were not chasing
girls at that time.
First year, second year we werejust you know, you just hang
out as guys, you meet up, you goto eat, yeah, if you meet up

(15:16):
with other people, you just chatLike it was just natural.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, high school, nothing, you
know no, high school no.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
Now that you're a guy who was doing extracurricular,
I'm assuming some of thosethings were funkies and whatnot.
I was playing.
Interesting enough, I wasplaying a sport called badminton
.

Speaker 3 (15:36):
Yes, I know badminton .

Speaker 1 (15:38):
So I was the team captain for two years, yeah, and
I think we go to provincials,okay, yeah, we were almost
getting to nationals but thatguy on the other side was tough,
yeah, so we missed.
We missed out on that yeah,yeah, interesting, interesting.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
So even in uni I was still playing badminton, yeah
guys, if you're listening tothis and you're in university,
you know high school, you know.
Yeah, guys, if you're listeningto this and you're in
university, high school, if youfind someone you like, just have
a healthy relationship.
It will teach you a lot ofthings, rather than coming out
here and getting characterdevelopment.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
It's part of the process.
You have to get it.
The earlier you get it, thebetter.

Speaker 3 (16:21):
Exactly, and the experience is very, very
important.
I'm the guy who is tellingpeople the truth, because I've
realized parents are not reallydoing that job and they tell you
no, no, focus with school first.
Once you finish, you canexplore these other things.
Well, I'm saying, explore themin an healthy manner, yeah,
which means no one gets okay,someone might get hurt, but yeah

(16:43):
, no one actually does thereversible.

Speaker 1 (16:47):
At the end of the day , I think things just happen.

Speaker 3 (16:49):
As much as you're given advice and everything.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
At the end of the day , you just find yourself in
certain situations, so the worldjust teaches you, so you can't
run away from that.

Speaker 3 (17:00):
So yourself, did you find yourself in such a
situation?

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Of character development?
Not, really, not really.
It has never happened asituation Of character
development, not really it hasnever happened so far.

Speaker 3 (17:08):
Of course it has happened.
We'll get there.
Then, when it happens, pleasetell us so that someone can
learn from it.
So you finished your bachelor'sright.
Yeah, you got good grades again.

Speaker 1 (17:28):
I think I got second upper upper, just really good.
Yeah, I tried not try, you madeit no, I did a different that's
a like top 30% there's theKenyan way of saying cupid here
nakupita so which one did you do?
I I passed through it In myeyes.

Speaker 3 (17:46):
I passed through it Exactly.
That's what we're talking about.

Speaker 1 (17:49):
Yeah, I passed through it.
We studied.
Telecom is a very hard course.
It's not easy.
It's a very hard course.

Speaker 3 (17:56):
Harder than what.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
Harder than computer science.
This conversation is going toget interesting real quick.
You'll see yourself trending,but it's not me.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Me.
I think telecommunication isvery easy and the reason is
because rarely do those thingschange.
From that perspective, likefrequency is the way you learn
frequencies, 1960 is the sameway, uh, but the challenging
part that I find with computerscience that, yeah, it's like
medicine yeah you find that youneed to solve real-time problem.

(18:38):
and you see, even with it, andwe'll talk about it, because in
the ai, when you're studying Idon't think ai was one of them
like this is it course peoplelearned it in school.
There was anticipation.
It's going to grow, learn a lotof theory, but right now, as
you speak actually someone whois focusing AI in school.
Right now it's more practicalthan ever.
And there are so many underlyinglessons that you can learn from

(18:59):
that.
But of course, as any science,I don't expect it to be
straightforward, very easy.
So from that perspective I findit telecommunications is a bit
fair, because nowadays you canactually go and refer a lot of
things that other people havelearnt, not to say even you
can't.
But of course, if you rely onthat, you graduate, get even a

(19:23):
first class and realize, oh, Ican't do much in the industry.
Uh, but of course that'srelative, that's my opinion yeah
.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
So for for telecom actually, you, you have to learn
electrical engineering.
So the basics of it, yeah,heavy voltage, light voltage, um
.
But the interesting bit is theyou have to learn the analog
part.
So you start with the analogand then you also have to learn
the digital, the digital telecompart of it, electronics.

(19:53):
Okay yeah, so it's quite heavyyeah, it's quite heavy the
calculus, the statistics, thematerial science computer
scientists in the house.

Speaker 3 (20:08):
Please comment down below, because we do all that.
The plus.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Now the application I should have the hardest courses
for you.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
I didn't know we have one fresh from the kitchen.
I don't know if you shouldactually comment, but yeah but
anyway, um, regardless of um howhard any courses, I normally
say the the interesting part is,if you yourself you feel like
this is what I want to do, itbecomes, becomes much, much

(20:44):
easier.
There's no science that isreally crazy hard.
I know to some extent there arethose like rocket science is
the most referenced hardestcourse, but if you really want
to do rocket science, you can doit.
Yeah.
So the notion of something ishard.
Of course something might beharder than the other, but it

(21:05):
doesn't mean it can't be done.

Speaker 1 (21:07):
You just need to get more time.
Yeah, other people have passedthrough it and passed, so why
can't you also pass?
Like it's possible, absolutely.

Speaker 3 (21:16):
So you do this, you get your second hopper and you
come to the industry.
By this time were you doing theAI?

Speaker 1 (21:23):
Yeah, we've actually skipped some parts yet.
So while in uni in 2016, afterdoing the kids' comp camp for
volunteering, an opportunitycomes up from Intel, the Intel
Student Partner Program, wherethey are.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
I remember I think that's where we met.
Yeah, I think that's where wemet.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's where we first met In
2016,.
They were starting withInternet of Things, so they were
selecting different studentsfrom different universities, the
best students in the universitywho understand programming, and
all to go and train otherstudents and promote the

(22:06):
development tools from Intel.
Yeah, so I applied and I gotthrough.
I was selected for MultimediaUniversity and we started with
the Internet of Things in 2016.
And then in 2017, they hadmoved to AI as a topic.

Speaker 3 (22:22):
This time this program was run by Tabre or the
other guy.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
It was that time it was run by Roy the.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Intel.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Student Partner Program specifically.

Speaker 3 (22:36):
Roy, the one who is now in Germany.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yes, yes, yes, he's doing robotics.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
I think you should look for that.
He's doing.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
The last time I checked he was still working in
Intel AI.
So, he's doing machine learning, if I'm not wrong.

Speaker 3 (22:50):
Unless he has changed yeah you should have him
Because I saw he's the guy whobuilt the robotic arm that could
actually interpret most of theyeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
The one that got him, I think, the president's
recognition or something it'sfrom.

Speaker 3 (23:10):
UON, I think yeah, it was from UON he was doing
semiconductor.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yes, so Roy was one of the.
He was actually part of thepanel that was hiring the
student partners at that time.
And then he was the one who wasmanaging everyone at that time,
so it was really interestingand by then he was still a
student.
Yes, yes, I think he had justcompleted.

(23:34):
I think he had just completed.
And then he was made the headto run Intel.
But he also started as astudent partner and then he
eventually became the onerunning the program.

Speaker 3 (23:52):
He got promoted.
So what was this studentpartner program?

Speaker 1 (23:57):
So it was basically Intel.
They have a suite ofdevelopment tools, that time the
Arduino boards.
They had their own version ofthe Arduino boards, intel
Galileo and so on.
So they wanted people todevelop on top of them.
So they had to get people whocould train other people on how

(24:20):
to use them.
So that's why they developedthe student partner program on
how to use them.
So that's why they developedthe student partner program.
Yeah, so they give you a bunchof boards 10 or 20, and you
teach people how to program onthem and the goal is by people
developing prototypes on theseIntel boards.
When they get to a productionlevel, they'll still come back
to Intel for the chips andeverything.

(24:41):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
Yeah, Very nice.
So what did you learn from this?

Speaker 1 (24:47):
It was it taught me, I think, most of my management
and event management skills andjust how to be a leader, how to
be a trainer, and it also showedme how much people appreciate,
showed me how much peopleappreciate technology and how

(25:07):
much people appreciate learningnew things outside the classroom
, because these were things theywere not interacting with in
the classroom, but we weregiving them a platform where
they could apply most of thethings they were learning in
school to this particulardevelopment board.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
But this actually begs me to ask you at what point
did you realize you are aleader?

Speaker 1 (25:30):
I think at what point ?
High school I'd say uni when Iwas running the student partner
program, but also in high schoolwhen I was a captain for the
badminton team.

(25:51):
I think that's where it started.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
Started enlisting that leadership.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:55):
And even in primary I think I was a CU leader in
primary.

Speaker 2 (26:01):
Oh, okay, you in CU?
Yeah, I was preaching, think itstarted in primary.
You in CU?
Yeah, I'm in CU, I waspreaching, man, I was preaching
on Sundays in PAG Church.
It was really interesting, yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:14):
So I think it started in primary, yeah.
Late class seven, class eight,there, yeah.
And then it keeps growing withtime, it keeps growing with time
.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Yeah, it still is yeah, and then it keeps growing
with time.
It keeps growing with time.
It still is so in theseleadership roles that you have
in different capacities, up tothe point where you are an Intel
student partner and carryingout these events.
Have you ever faced a challengethat was not in?

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Challenge in the sense of.
Leadership people you areleading, you know not not really
, but just an interesting story.
A so while in uni, um I, I hadapplied for a program, an
entrepreneurship uh program.

(27:02):
It's called traprap Camp.
It was in Boston and I gotselected, but the cut was you
had to pay a certain, you weregiven a scholarship, like a 50%
scholarship, and then the restyou have to raise by yourself.
So I had to raise money to goto US.
How much was this?
I think was it three.

(27:24):
I think it was around $3,000.

Speaker 3 (27:26):
So they give you 15, you get four.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
No, the program is like 4,000.
So they give you 5,000% of yourscholarship, so you have to
raise your flight tickets andyou have to raise part of the
tuition to go for the program.
It was a three-week program inBoston and the program was very
good.
It exposes you to realindustries, real startups that
are building real solutions inthe US, and the goal was to

(27:54):
build up that entrepreneurialspirit, but from an emerging
technology sort of standpoint.
So you got exposed to IoTcompanies, robotic companies, AI
companies, and that's also someof the things that made me do
AI Kenya.
So when I was doing thatfundraising, part of my strategy

(28:18):
was family and friends, raisingfrom family and friends, the
community.
I think even one event where Ithink you know, Royna right.

Speaker 3 (28:26):
Yes, I know Royna.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
Royna.
I think she was a GDG at thattime At.

Speaker 3 (28:30):
Strathmore.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
At Strathmore and they were having an event at
Moringa School and I wasspeaking on IoT and, I think, on
AI, yeah.
So as part of my closing, I putup my poster.
I said guys, I'm going toBoston to learn for an
entrepreneurship boot camp forthree weeks.

Speaker 3 (28:50):
Please contribute to my Mchanga Ah it was Mchanga
account, yeah, mchanga yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
So, as part of that, another strategy was reaching
out to companies that you feelcould support you.
Yeah, you feel could support you.
Yeah, so I interacted with oneparticular MD who I was telling
them about yes, I want to go forthis program, can your company

(29:15):
please sponsor me?
And I was shot down.
Yeah, so this particular personactually shouted at me saying
oh why are you doing this?
You have not done this and thisand this and this.
So it was more of a critique ofwhy I should not go and why I
was doing things wrongly.

(29:36):
But that whole entireexperience just taught me to
there's a certain way you shouldtreat people even if you're
giving them feedback.
That time I had a startup calledSahibu that was aimed at
helping refugees, connectingthem to information, so I'd
mentioned that as part of my whythat going for this bootcamp

(29:58):
will actually help me to buildmore on this startup and when I
come back, I'll share myknowledge and experience with
people.
So the person went for therefugee startup, criticized this
and this and this.
Yeah, so it was a veryeye-opening experience.
Yeah, but I still soldiered onand managed to raise money from
family and friends, Went for thebootcamp and came back.

(30:20):
Yeah, yeah, nice nice.

Speaker 3 (30:24):
You have said that's where you started your
entrepreneurship journey, or yes, so the entrepreneurship
journey still in university, umuh.

Speaker 1 (30:36):
So, as part of the Intel trainings that I had done,
one of the guys I trainedwanted came across a competition
.
I think no, he.
I don't know how he approachedme, but I trained him on the
Intel technologies.

(30:56):
He had come, he had builtprototypes yeah on the intel
technology.
He had come, he had builtprototypes, yeah, and he wanted
to.
He was thinking of a concept ofhow we could measure um the
trash in a container yeah usingan iot device so he asked me how
can you like wing or?
yeah, like measuring.
So if I give you a bean in thiscorner, I want to tell me how

(31:16):
much.
How much full is.
Is it 10% full?
Is it 1% full?
So he gave me that challenge.
So I sat down and I was like Ithink I know how we can solve
this.
So we use an ultrasonic sensorto measure the distance in the
container.
So if it meets an obstacle itgoes back, it puts that distance

(31:38):
, it calculates with the totalone and then a percentage, and
then it tells you it's 10%, 20%,4%.
Yeah.
Yeah, so at that time there wasa competition called the Hald
Prize where the challenge washow you can help refugees live
better lives.
Yeah, and he told me, how canwe use this solution, how can we

(31:59):
apply it to the refugee sort ofproblem use case?
But we didn't eventually end upgoing with that.
We pivoted to another direction.
But what eventually happenedwith that particular device?
We did, we prototyped it.
It became very efficient.
It even got us an interview onnational TV I think it was KTN

(32:22):
at that time.
The project was calledMazingira Project and we demoed
it.
We went with it to representthe university in innovation
shows, eventually also got it tohave an interview with Eric
Omondi.
There was this show was he wasthe host of a show that was, uh,

(32:44):
highlighting hardwareinnovations from african
innovators.
Eric omondi, the comedian, thecomedian, yeah, so at that time
he was the host.
Okay, yeah, I think I shouldlook for that, lord, it was very
interesting was it in ktnN or?
NTV.
I think it was KTN, ktn, yes,yes, yeah, he worked in KTN

(33:04):
shortly yes yes, what was the?

Speaker 3 (33:06):
name.
There's a name of that show Ican't remember, but it was
really really short, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
It had, like I think, 10 or 20 guys, 10 episodes.
Yeah they they showcased.
One of them was the device wehad done.
So how the entrepreneurshipcame about is for the refugee
competition.
We came up with him the sameguy is called Maura Mohawiru,
shout out to him and we decidedto come up to participate in the

(33:36):
competition.
So there are different roundsthe university round.
And then a regional round.
At that time it was happening indubai and then the finals.
So we won the university round.
So I partnered up with uh.
One of my classmates I calleddan kana okelo um at that time
was a very good coder.
He he was specialized in usSD.

(33:57):
I think he even used AT.

Speaker 3 (33:59):
At that time, Africa Stalking API.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
So, during our research for looking at how can
we tackle the refugee problemdifferently, everyone was doing
the thing of clothes, food, youknow, mental health and all that
.
But as we were doing theresearch, we came across a
report that highlighted howimportant information was, so

(34:24):
knowing that this is where foodis being distributed, these are
the opportunities, scholarshipsand all that and so on.
So we decided to tackle theproblem of information.
So we built a platform where therefugees will come and they get
all the life-saving informationin one platform and the demo
for that I think.
We built a platform where therefugees will come and they got
they get all the life-savinginformation in one platform and
the demo for that I think.

(34:44):
We did a ussd, um sort of aprototype that was telling you
the refugee camps that areavailable, uh, where you can get
them, um, getting connected tothe ngos that could help you,
and so on, and we won.
So that's where myentrepreneurship sort of

(35:04):
experience started.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
So did you win a cash prize or program?

Speaker 1 (35:10):
No, we won a trip to Dubai to go and represent the
university in the regionalcompetitions.
And it was also veryinteresting because now we were
meeting not only undergraduatesbut also postgraduates from all
over the world that selectedDubai as their point of winning

(35:32):
so that they go to the finals.
So the final had like fivestartups only.
So, the startup that would winin Dubai was one of five that
would present at the finals.
Yeah, so we didn't win, but itwas a very eye-opening
experience.
So the South that would win inDubai was one of five that would
present at the finals.
Yeah, so we didn't win but itwas a very eye-opening
experience.
You realize how smart you are,how innovative you are, once you
interact with other people.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
In the real world.
Yeah, in the real world, not inthe books and grids.

Speaker 1 (35:53):
Yeah, it was a good eye-opening experience.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Nice, nice.
So, when you say a region, wasit email?
Is it email?

Speaker 1 (36:03):
yeah, yeah that is, europe, middle east and asia.
Yeah, so dubai was one of themain hubs, okay, so like a
hundred universities were comingthere to participate it was a
lot.
So we had like four, four roomswhere you were pitching and
each room had like 10 guys 10 or20 startups that are competing.

(36:25):
So you go and sit on the otherside and you watch some of them
pitch After you have pitched orbefore, depends Sometimes before
, sometimes after.

Speaker 3 (36:34):
So you guys had a schedule like when you're
supposed to pitch.

Speaker 1 (36:36):
Yes, the pitch was five minutes.
We rehearsed with myco-founders.
We rehearsed that thing to thedot.
Yeah, so I had my line for twominutes.
Uh, one of the co-founders,jennifer, had her her lines for
two minutes.
Maura had his line for xminutes so everyone had their

(36:57):
part and we rehearsed it to thedot timing it.
Timing it until you were doingfive minutes so time was of
essence time.
You're only given five minutesto do an entire startup pitch
deck problem solutionopportunity.
What you are, how is itdifferent from other people?
And then, why do you need thefunding?

(37:18):
How will you use the funding?
Then, who is the team?

Speaker 3 (37:21):
five minutes done, five minutes yeah, yeah, so
that's very important because Itell people like I don't have
all the time, communication is avery important skill so like
that, really sort of sort ofmolded, the art of communication
for me so like justcommunicating.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Precisely this is what you are doing.
This is the solution, andthat's it in five minutes, nice,
yes.

Speaker 3 (37:47):
So you really get a huge exposure twice actually yes
.
From the school and afterschool.

Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (37:55):
With the Boston.
So from that point you are forsure, if I want to start a
company, I can start a company.
I know how to arrange my deck,what is required, but do you
build a team?

Speaker 1 (38:06):
This came after, so the Dubai came before, and then
it did Boston, and then, also inthe middle of that, I had
applied for a program byMicrosoft.
It's called the MicrosoftInsiders Program.
They discontinued it I think itran for around two years and

(38:31):
the idea was they were lookingfor startups that were using
technology for good, so likesocial enterprises with a tech
element.
Yeah.
So me, with my ambition, I wentthere and applied with Sahibu.
So the startup for refugees wascalled Sahibu Sahibu meaning a
friend, so we wanted to build.
The ultimate goal was to builda companion to refugees, like a

(38:52):
virtual assistant to refugees.

Speaker 3 (38:55):
You've said, Sahibu means a friend and.
I remember, masaibu meansproblems.
Masaibu means problems InSwahili, that is.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Swahili, but it's masahibu.
Yeah, this one is sahibu.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
It's just a relation that you really need, a friend
when you're going through toughtimes.
Yes, good selections yes.

Speaker 1 (39:13):
So we applied to the Microsoft Insiders for Good
program.
I also got selected.
Applied to the MicrosoftInsiders for Good program, I
also got selected.
So in the middle of me justfinishing the university, we got
a chance to now engage in theboot camp now from Microsoft
again acceleration program.
I think I was running for aboutnine or eight months, so that

(39:36):
also sort of showed me what ittakes to build a business, a
social enterprise.
Team costs, learning costs andall that.

Speaker 3 (39:46):
It really exposed me.
Oh nice, yeah.
So actually, what I'm learningfrom all these is that put
yourself out there for all these.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
Sometimes you'll get them, sometimes you won't get
them sometimes you'll win,sometimes you won't lose
anything at the end of the day.
Yeah, sometimes we won't getthem.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
Yeah, we'll win.
Sometimes you won't loseanything at the end of the day.
Yeah, yeah, you just need toexperience.
Yeah, yeah, and then, uh, didyou pivot the cyber after?

Speaker 1 (40:07):
yeah so, uh, after after finishing um uni, I got
the boston um trap company inthe production program.
Yeah so I, I it.
But the catch was you couldn'tuse the same startup you had to
pitch to investors, so at theend of the program you had to

(40:29):
come up with another startup, anew startup.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
Were you supposed to take the ones that got you there
?

Speaker 1 (40:35):
No, you are here so as part of testing whether you
really understood the entire orjust to see how it.
How the whole experience for youwas you form teams among us
yourselves and you come up withthe startups and then you pitch
in front of real investors likeAmerican VCs and all yeah.

(40:56):
So I think at that time we cameup with I can't remember the
name of the startup, but one ofmy team members was.
He was a guy from Philippinesand he had this story about how
his grandmother died because shecouldn't get the right medicine
.
And yet this medicine calledAyurveda.

(41:17):
It is sort of a natural, organicmedicine that's very popular in
India and Asia regions.
So we wanted to look at how canwe use technology to connect
more people to Ayurveda medicine.
So that's the solution wecreated.
We pitched it didn't go through, yeah, but also learned a few
things from there.
What did you learn?

(41:37):
So your team members are veryimportant.
The team members you have arevery, very important, yeah, and
also the amount of work you putin.
If you're the one with the idea, you need to put in the most
effort.

Speaker 3 (41:58):
You cannot depend on the guys who don't have the idea
.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
It's like you and me.
Let's say I'm from an area thatdoesn't have roads and from an
area that has roads, and then Iwant to work on a solution to
address areas that don't haveroads.
So the person who has theproblem, you have to make sure
you put in as much effort tomake sure everyone in the team
sort of understands but alsoperson who has the?
problem.
You have to make sure you putin as much effort to make sure
everyone in the team sort ofunderstands.
But also, uh, the solutions youpitch for some.

(42:27):
Some solutions.
They are more of good and theytake time before you you
actually get some traction interms of revenue yeah so the
kind of investors you'respeaking to are also very
important.
Yeah, yeah, an investor who islooking for a subscription
business where you are gettingyou start touching money on day
one, is very different from aninvestor who, who realizes you

(42:48):
you have to work on this thingfor five years before you start
seeing revenue.
So also the kind of investorsyou you interact with are very
important.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (42:56):
So even in this case it's more, even looking outside
the power wheel of the idea, tothe even investors and even
users, the environment, thatsolution is going to work.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
Yes and then can support you.
It's sort of very hard tobalance.
How will you work on this idea?
How will you sustain it?
It's a tech idea, so you haverunning cost of servers, running
cost of event team members, ifyou're having any, or just admin
cost of moving around as you'retackling your problem.

(43:39):
So the reality sort of kicks in, whether do you really want to
do this or not, or do you wantto pause this work on it on the
side and see what will come outof it.

Speaker 3 (43:51):
Okay, but you ended up pivoting the solution.

Speaker 1 (43:55):
So we left I think I left the solution with the team
member that it was up to himwhether he wanted to.

Speaker 3 (44:04):
Were you, two of you or three?

Speaker 1 (44:05):
We were around, I think four of us.

Speaker 3 (44:08):
In that team?
Yes, so everyone said thepurpose.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
The guy who brought the problem statement, he was
from Philippines.
Yeah, we really crafted a verynice idea and packaging and now
I was even asking him after theprogram yo can we take this to
the next level?
But he didn't really pick it.
Oh for him it was, like youknow, by the way yeah because

(44:33):
the solution we had built it wasvery relevant to the Asian
market.
Yeah, because of Ayurveda True,true, yeah, that organic
medicine and all that.
So there was no way I couldtake that and come with it.
Come with it here.
So he decided to leave it out,and then that's how it died.
So, for me when I came backfrom the program.

(44:56):
I think I started there inKenya and then I continued
working on Sahib.
Which year was this 2017.
From the program, I think Istarted AI Kenya and then I
continued working on Sahib.
Which year was this 2017.

Speaker 3 (45:04):
That's when you started AI Kenya.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (45:07):
What led you to start AI Kenya?

Speaker 1 (45:09):
So what led me to start AI Kenya was, at that time
there were developercommunities.
Some were trying to tackle AI,but it was mostly from that
passion I had from training AIwhile I was part of Intel.
So we'd go to Mombasa.
So for us, we started extendingour network.
So as much as I was assigned toMultimedia University, we were

(45:32):
still allowed to go to Mombasa,train guys in Mombasa.
I remember we went to Mombasa,we went to Eldoret, yeah,
different parts of the country,and whenever we were done with
the training you would see howmuch appreciative guys were they
were like yo.
That was really eye-opening.
Yeah, like I really learnedsomething interesting and I'm

(45:52):
looking forward to learning morefrom you guys.
So the learning from that isthere was still a huge gap in
terms of knowledge for.
Ai at that point.
So that's what led me to startAI Kenya, to continue the work
that I'd started.
But I also had a vision oftaking it to the next level

(46:13):
having a company, a research arm, startups and all that We'll
get there, Chiba.

Speaker 3 (46:21):
So the Intel student program lasted for one year.

Speaker 1 (46:25):
So the Intel student program lasted for one year for
IoT and then in 2017, theyrebranded it to Intel AI
Software Ambassador.
So Intel AI Software Ambassadorlasted for one year in 2017.
That was it that was it Neverhappened again.
Yeah, it ended from there.

Speaker 3 (46:43):
So yeah, yeah yeah, I can only guess why that
happened.
Yeah, yeah.
So you start AI just to addressthis.
Why community, why not just youknow?
Open a school and teach people.

Speaker 1 (47:00):
It was going with the flow and going with the the
energy that was there at thattime.
So, um, while I was in boston,um, there was a meetup I
attended.
I think it was a company calledkayak, so kayak deals in, uh,
connecting flights yes travelbig company.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
anyways, right now yes.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
So that time they were talking, it was more of an
AI meetup tech AI meetup.
That time they were looking athow can they power travel
booking experiences where youuse your voice.
Yeah.
Where you're using Amazon Alexaor you're using Google as a
Google home speaker.
Yeah.
And you just say, hey, I wantto go to Lagos, and it books.

(47:45):
It asks you a few questionsusing the voice and then you're
able to book your flightconnected your credit card.
So those are some of theproblems they were tackling.

Speaker 3 (47:53):
I was like yo.
This is very interesting.
That is in 2016?

Speaker 1 (47:57):
2017 yeah, I was like yo, this is so interesting,
like guys have come togetherafter an afternoon and this is
what they're talking about.
So I was like yo, I want tobring this back home.
Yeah.
So that was one of the thingsthat actually motivated me to
start Aya Kenya, because Iwanted to bring the same quality
of experience I saw there backhome, yeah, and then see where

(48:21):
does it go from there.
Because I knew there were a fewpeople who were trying to get
into that field and also becauseof the feedback I was getting
from people that, yeah, theystill want to keep going and
keep learning and get connectedto opportunities.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
So that's where it started so I'll ask the question
that I get asked the most.
Actually, I think even youasked me at some point.
I'm not sure I might be wrong.
So when you want to start acommunity, where do you start?

Speaker 1 (48:49):
Why are you doing it?

Speaker 3 (48:51):
You start with the why.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
What's guiding you?
Why does it matter?
Why is it important to do whatyou're doing?

Speaker 3 (48:59):
Especially to you or just generally?

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Yes, to you and also to the people you're doing it
for.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
So, as they say, will I be able to make money in the
community?

Speaker 1 (49:13):
It depends, because these days, there are people who
will start it because they wantto make money, and then there
are people who will start itbecause they want to make money,
and then there are people whowill start it because they've
genuinely seen a need or theywant to expand that network of
smart people.
Most of the time, the communityis about like-minded smart
people.

(49:34):
So you are smarter than me,let's say, in Python, and me,
I've just started Python, but Ireally want to learn Python.
So how do we get together?
How do we get other guystogether so that we grow as a
group?
I think for me, that's where italways starts, and also at the
back.
You have a goal right you wantto elevate from level one to

(49:54):
level five, so you need otherpeople to do that.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
So in this case, how do I form partnerships to make
sure that that happens?

Speaker 1 (50:04):
The partnerships.
Most of the time it depends onwhat you're doing.
Is it relevant to those peopleyou want to seek partnerships
with?
So if there's synergy, itbecomes very easy.
It's also how you communicateIf you're a good communicator.
If you're not a goodcommunicator, they'll miss out
on the point and you won't getit.
So it has to be aligned withthe partner and you have to

(50:31):
really pitch that.
Why is it important to them?
That they need to be part ofwhatever you're doing.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
Okay, I see.
So that's out of the waybecause, like the three most
asked, questions Our owncommunity?

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah, Because, you see when.

Speaker 3 (50:45):
I started communities .
There were no communities.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (50:48):
The one that existed was what?
Was it about.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
GDG no no no.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
GDG.
We started that.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
Which year was this?
Which year was this?

Speaker 3 (50:59):
Maybe 2012 or 2011 2010?
I'm not sure around 2011 to2012 yeah, in between.
Yeah, so nowadays there are somany communities and I'm so
happy to see because with thecommunities actually brings
opportunities eventuallycompanies, new talent and all

(51:20):
that.
Yeah, so you start AI community, ai Kenya community, which is
one of the largest communities.

Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yes, in East Africa.

Speaker 3 (51:31):
Yeah, In East Africa right.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (51:34):
On what does it all?

Speaker 1 (51:34):
just there's data science.
Nigeria, that has high tasks.

Speaker 3 (51:40):
Any community in Nigeria is huge.

Speaker 1 (51:42):
It's huge, nigeria that has high.
Any community in Nigeria ishuge.
That market is huge 200 million.

Speaker 3 (51:46):
It's a lot.
There's another one called DevCircle.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Dev Circle Facebook Meta.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
Let me check it out.
It's Dev Circle Let me check itout's devsaco let me check it
out.
There's a lot of members, a lotof them, so they are quite also
active in how they doengagement.
There's devsafrica, which is sobig it's called what is it?

(52:18):
Devcenter sorry there's like22,000 members yeah, that's a
lot when you, when you callthose people together one day
you don't know where you canhost them but in Nigeria is
where you can host a meetup anda thousand people shows up, so
it's crazy man like the energythere is.
That's why I'm not surprisedwith whatever happens in nigeria

(52:40):
yeah and I don't likebracketing everything, uh,
because, of course, whether it'sgood, there's also bad.
Yeah, and the equal measures.
Um, so you start these events.
Uh, did you start with a meetup?
Do you start?

Speaker 1 (52:55):
virtually what's up.
What's up group yeah.

Speaker 3 (52:58):
You just had a few guys.

Speaker 1 (52:59):
Yes, we just had all together.
The geeks came together, westarted the space.
So there was this presentWhatsApp group.
We had an Intel WhatsApp group.
Four guys were doing Arduinoand a bit of AI and all that.
So most of the conversationswere either leaning towards IoT

(53:21):
or just general tech.
So we wanted a space where wecould specifically talk about AI
.
So it's machine learning,machine learning, data science,
data engineering, all that.

Speaker 3 (53:32):
So we just started as a WhatsApp group, had the first
few events online on WhatsApp aQ&A on WhatsApp, whatsapp and
another one on Telegram and thenwe started doing the physical
then from there it's just beenup and up and actually the AI
movement has really helped it alot over time because since I

(53:54):
think starting in 2017, actuallyAI started catching up in terms
of implementation it has alwaysbeen there as theory and
research and what not.
2017, actually, I startedcatching up in terms of
implementation.
It has always been there astheory and research and whatnot.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
So, from experience, what was the biggest challenge
running a community?
I'd say the biggest challengerunning a community is and there
are different types ofcommunities.
There are communities you startfor yourself, like I, kenya,
and then the community to getrecruited to run, like at
leisure, gdg, yeah, any othercommunity that is linked to a

(54:34):
tech vendor.
So I think those ones are a biteasy but because there's
someone who is but, yeah,there's someone who is following
up on you.
There's someone who is givingyou resources, but for a
community you start yourself,you have to think about
sustainability.
How do you sustain all of thosethings?
And then you also have to thinkabout the team that you have.

Speaker 3 (54:54):
Yes, so your biggest challenge has always been
resources.

Speaker 1 (54:58):
Yes, I'd say yeah, resources, mostly resources, and
also time.
Yeah, time in the sense thatyou want to do so much by your
own person.
There are some things you can'tdelegate.
You have to do them yourself,so you're also limited.

Speaker 3 (55:16):
Last time I checked you had a huge team behind you,
or it was just volunteers forthat particular.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
that's mostly volunteers who I engage on a on
a need basis, yeah, buteverything else I do full time
myself yeah so only engage themwhen either we have a gig that
we need to run let's say for aclient or we have an event that
we need to run.

Speaker 3 (55:39):
Let's say, for a client, yeah, or we have an
event that we need to run, soyou guys also take gigs in the
community.
Yeah, is that one way ofraising funds?

Speaker 1 (55:43):
yes, so gigs, not really raising funds, just
sustaining everything, yeah.
So, uh, we did a hackathon foruber, I think it was 20 20.
Yeah, that was a paid gig.
You run, you organize thehackathon, end to end you
execute it, you send a reportand all that.

(56:04):
Yeah, so that's where, wheneven the volunteers, they see
the value of whatever they'vebeen doing because they're
getting paid.
Yeah, they're getting paid ascontractors yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:14):
So in this case do after maybe doing all the you
know, the payment that isrequired for the hackathon do
you remain with some funds thatyou can dedicate in the future
meetups or hackathons.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
Yes, because you've been for me.
Personally, I run, I sustaineverything out of pocket by
myself, so this also it comes asa very good way of now helping
me to.
I don't have to get money outof my pocket for some number of
time.
Yeah, so it really helps.

Speaker 3 (56:42):
Yeah, yeah.
I'm asking this because, also,it's the same way we have been
running Nairobi.
I don't know if you know aboutNairobi.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
I'm sure you know Nairobi.
I know Nairobi More of the wayyou said it.
You said it more of Nairobi.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
Nairobi, nairobi, nairobi and Ruby.
Yeah.
Now it's called Africa RubyCommunity because we're scaling
it out throughout Africa.
It's a community that is notbacked by any company, so we
depend either on sponsorshippartnerships and also some time
out of pocket.

(57:16):
And it's because we see thevalue of both getting more
experienced engineers ortraining them to be experienced,
also a networking avenue fordifferent stakeholders.
And one thing actually I cansay for sure companies should
open more in sponsoring some ofthese communities.

(57:38):
Of course I'm not downplayingthat there are people who start
communities with that mentalityof wanting to make money out of
this, which is really not a goodnotion.
Of course I understand everyonehas to eat, but not from the
community.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
I think at the end of the day, it's natural selection
always works.
You can clearly see someone whois doing something to to raise
money.
Yeah, yeah, they'll just forget.
They'll forget their script atsome point and then just expose
themselves.
You always get caught at theend of the day, yeah.
So if, yes, you're doing, thatwill come for you.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
Anyway.
I'm joking I want to understandwhat is natural selection
problem, because I also used todo AI, right, yeah, okay, yeah.
So you run this and it's one ofactive community as well, as
you know what has been theimpact according to your

(58:38):
experience running thiscommunity.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
The impact, I'd the impact you know according to to
your experience running thiscommunity the, the impact, I'd
say number one, the connectingpeople to opportunities.
So we've been running the.
We have a job board on ourwebsite where we share
opportunities with people.
Yeah and uh yeah.
People come to you and tell youuh, yeah, we I applied for a
job through our website and Igot it.

Speaker 3 (59:02):
But what's your website, kenyaai?
Kenyaai, yes, nice.
By the way, nice domain.
Yes, Don't lose it.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
I can't lose it, the domain.
It was actually a suggestionfrom when I was recording the
podcast, the Kenya podcast.
We still didn't have a domainname.
Yeah.
So one of the producers for thepodcast is called Chris Blythe.
He actually worked on theiRobot movie, the one where Will

(59:32):
Smith is in it.
I don't know if you've watchedit.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
That is the podcast you're doing.
Yeah, he's a Kenyan.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
No, he's not a Kenyan .
I think, he's either fromScotland or UK, I can't quite
recall.
Yeah, but he's a very good VFXartist, yeah.
So he told me, do you have awebsite?
No, no, okay, yeah, why don'tyou get an AI domain?
Yeah.
And I was like yeah, get it.
And that's how I got it.

(01:00:03):
So how did you meet thisproducer?
By being very good at what youdo, and then synergies and
energies things happen and youjust meet.

Speaker 3 (01:00:12):
You meet, but you stopped recording at some point.

Speaker 1 (01:00:15):
Yeah, we stopped recording.
Yeah, that podcast wasexpensive, man.
It was a while.
The things were due at thattime, man.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
Did you used to travel all the way?
Record and go back.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
No, they had a studio as a business, so it's a
production video shooting.
It's called what's GoodNetworks here in Kenya.

Speaker 3 (01:00:33):
Yes, oh, I remember it.
It was based in Iambu.
Yes.
Iambu.
Yeah, okay, yes, I have theyrecorded some of our videos, I
think in 2019.
No, no, no, nairobi, nairobi.
Yeah, those are the guys weworked with Nice, nice nice.

Speaker 1 (01:00:50):
It was very interesting because I think in
20.
Well, I was still in uni and wewere attending these
conferences.
There was a conference atOshawa, I think it was Africa
Security or Nairobi Securitysomething, and Wasco Studios was
actually one of the booths.
They had their own radiostation production.

(01:01:10):
They were trying to sell theirservices and I was like you guys
are really cool.
And then, two years down theline, one year down the line,
they're producing mine andshooting my podcast.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
Yeah, nice, yeah, nice, yeah.
So eventually they just closedthe office and went back.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
They still have a unit running here.
I think they relocated to Ithink is it US or UK, I can't
remember but the studio stillruns.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
Yeah, Because even then I remember actually it's
just perseverance, because Iremember then podcast was on
there.
Yes, the first time.
I saw podcast.
I think was with Kairi, whoright now works for Microsoft.
I think even I was shouting himout on Twitter saying what he
started back in the day.
Yeah, I'm exploring it now.
Yeah, I think he was sovisionary I'm exploring it now.

(01:01:58):
I think he was so visionary.
He used to have this gadgetthat he could put at the center
of the table and you guys couldtap a story and record.
Then I was like, what is this?
Is this a radio?
What is this?
So I could not really.
I had an idea of what podcastis, but I think after COVID is
when everyone was doing podcast.
And then now, given themainstream media's limitations

(01:02:20):
on how much they can air foreveryone, it's a good way even
to showcase people like Alfreddoing amazing stuff, scaling and
stuff.
So in this case, I remember youthrowing a party 2019.

(01:02:40):
2019, yes, and coincidentally,it happened that we had a class
in party on one room and KenyaAI in another room.
I think before this podcast wewere talking about it, but I
would like people to hear aboutit, yeah, yeah, and actually
this is about team andcollaboration instance.

(01:03:01):
We talk about the community andyou had this super DJ and you
came to where I was.
I was setting up some gadgets,mk.
Also, you're a member ofAtlassian community.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
Yeah, I used to come for your meet-ups.
Still a member.
Yeah, just that you don't comenowadays.
I'll come.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
MK.
Where's your main act, man?
I don't have a budget.
I remember then I used to havethe small machines called.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
Numark small.

Speaker 3 (01:03:37):
It's called what?

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
bootlegged with the decks, the briefcase, the steel
briefcase no, that one was laterthen.

Speaker 3 (01:03:47):
I used to have a small new Mac.
Ah, yeah, yeah it's like tryingto have a good time because I
realized that for softwareengineers and developers they
don't really go to themainstream parties like in clubs
and all that, but when?
They get a place where they canhave some similar conversations
.
It's really interesting.
That's how actually thoseparties started.

(01:04:08):
As a main actor, I was likechief, I don't have the budget,
I will be there, everything Iwill be the MC.
The presenter the.
DJ everything and you're likeman, but I you know, when you
told me your main actor isKambula, you call him DJ he's
called Teotripa.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
Yeah, teotripa he's.
Who was part of Kambula Kambula?
Yeah, who was part of KamulaKamula?
Yeah, I was so impressed, Iactually came and checked out.

Speaker 3 (01:04:34):
The guy had some gear .
Man like controller, cool gear.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
She'll actually put the pictures.
I'll send you the pictures.
Yeah please, you insert.
Yes, please, editor, you'llinsert the pictures.
It was really nice yeah.
How I met Teyo.
So what's Good Studios, teyowas one of the.
He also had a podcast that hewas shooting at what's.

(01:04:58):
Good Studios.
So that's how we met each other.
Yeah, you have a podcast, Ihave a podcast, and then I think
he also did the soundproduction for my podcast.
Oh nice yeah, nice yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:09):
What if you had a whole team behind you?
So I was like okay, okay ifthings don't go well here,
because you know?
This dude made me doubt myselffor a minute yeah I'll come on
the other room and please don'tchase us away but that never
happened actually the oppositehappened yeah, we joined the
forces.
Yeah, I remember that experience?
Uh, clearly, because when I sawa lot of people and I was like,

(01:05:33):
okay, what's happening here?
And I realized, oh, the guyshave moved from the other side
and came, and one of the thingsthat actually, that taught me
the reason why I'm sharing thisbecause we were thinking in 2022
, having a community day in someof the conferences that happen
in town Just to share theexperience as devs and even

(01:05:53):
where we can have a chat.
Maybe even we should have aside podcast recording that we
can share and share in differentplatforms, just telling our own
story.
So I thought that's quitesomething memorable for me when
we closed our party.
I think we also crossed overActually they crossed over
before you closed because Iactually took a break, I left

(01:06:14):
some nice music playing.
Yeah, I went and checked like Iview closed, but I found the
guy still playing but with lesspeople yeah, okay, that's nice,
that's some affirmation.
Yeah, so that's why now even Ithink Tamra was also in the room
we started now discussing thecommunity day where we can have
parties, I think the followingyear or maybe later in the year

(01:06:37):
okay, the following yearactually I DJed for Dreadcon.
Just you know, then I had somenice gear Just pro bono yeah.
Yeah, that affirmation actuallytransformed to, like you know,
deciding to get some proper gearfor the record.

(01:07:00):
Yeah and yeah.
That's something actually weshould be doing in the future
together.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
So let's talk a bit about AI.
Right, and based on yourexperience as an AI guru in the
community, what trends do youforesee in AI and technology in
the next few or coming months?
Because now you know, chargeEPT is taking over.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:26):
But there is also research where doctors are using
AI to help them diagnose andalso carry out some of the most
complex surgeries.
So there are some researchersand scholars who are sitting
down and doing that properlybecause, you know, with medicine
you cannot afford all themistakes.

(01:07:46):
What other trends do youforesee coming?

Speaker 1 (01:07:51):
So I see a lot of new businesses.
I think we'll see a spike inmore digital businesses because
of AI, so people who master theskill of using AI as your
virtual assistant to help you inyour day-to-day doing your
business plan, running yoursocial media campaigns and also

(01:08:16):
um, there'll be an improvementin gdp.
Basically, yeah, based on howpeople are adopting it okay um.
Healthcare will improveagriculture will improve
education.
We love to evolve and adapt tohow students are trying to use
yeah, already thatbt, yeah,already, that's a big discussion
even in the.

Speaker 3 (01:08:34):
Ivy League universities yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
At the end of the day , we just have to evolve.
I think now it's a challenge tothe teachers.
You've been using a system thatis 20 years old to see how
smart students are, but nowthere's a new ingredient in the
mix, so you have to go back tothe drawing board and look at
how can I still test this person, even as much as this judge?

(01:09:00):
Gpt is here.
It's just like the calculator.
As much as you are doing examswith your calculator, there's so
much that you can do with acalculator in an exam.
So the same thing should happenfor AI in education.
They should look at how theycan test that people have
understood whatever they'veunderstood from a human side

(01:09:21):
without using the GPTs and allyeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
But from what I hear from you, which is actually
reassures those who are fearthat AI is coming to take over.
You're saying AI can be used asa complementary.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
Yeah, it's a very strong complementary.
Again, on the other side, ithighlights the need for high
specialization.
So you really need to be goodat what you do.
If you're a photographer, youreally need to be a good
photographer.
If you're a model, you love tobe a good model.
If you're a DJ, you really needto be a good photographer.
If you're a model, you'll haveto be a good model.
If you're a DJ, you really needto be a good DJ.

(01:09:57):
Spotify they're not playingaround with that yeah for sure.
So it's that nudge for humanityto evolve in terms of how smart
we are, how we approach things,how we build things.
So it's again natural selectioncomes back.
At the end of the day, whoeverknows how to use it very well

(01:10:22):
will win with it.
The people who sit back and saythey're just comfortable, then
of course you get pushed outyeah.
If you look at a case of thetelecom industry, so at one
point in time we had humans whowere switching calls.
So in the 1900s I'm calling,let's say I'm calling someone

(01:10:45):
like Faith or Mike right, switchthat call, pull a wire and then
put it and connect me like anactual hardware connection to
the person I'm talking to.
But now with technology thatgot automated and those people
they were no longer there.
But that didn't mean that therewere no jobs Because of the

(01:11:08):
telecom company and the mobilephones.
Now you start looking at, youhave customer care teams, you
have product teams, so itactually created more jobs as
opposed to that time where youwere manually switching calls.

Speaker 3 (01:11:19):
Yeah, You've taken us so so far back.
I can imagine if you switch itto the wrong person, and it used
to happen a lot actually.

Speaker 1 (01:11:31):
Yeah, so the same thing.
We'll experience the same thingwith AI, so people will love to
evolve their work and we'llcreate more opportunities out of
the automation that's happening.
That's how I see it and do yousee ethical problems with AI.
Yeah, the ethical problems, butnot only AI, just tech in
general.

(01:11:51):
Okay, yeah, just basictechnology how your data is
collected, how it is used.
It is not really just an AIproblem, it's a wide-take
problem.

Speaker 3 (01:12:04):
And now that it's apparent with AI that data can
be misused, copyright infringed,patents exposed, how do you
think we can manage that withouthurting the smart minds that
really deserve recognition oreven payment for what it's used
for?

Speaker 1 (01:12:25):
By having more strict copyright sort of agreements
and rules At some point in time.
Most websites you can easilyscrape their data but some
websites that are smart enough.
They put blockers to bots thatautomatically scrape data and

(01:12:45):
things like that.
So people have been verylenient and sitting back on
copyright and also people havebeen overlooking how they share
ownership of the things thatthey're writing about.
At some point, let's say,you're a blogger, you're a tech
blogger and you want to growyour audience and you want to

(01:13:08):
show companies that you'rereally specialized in a certain
area.
So you have to write a blog postand expose it and make sure as
many people get it as possible.
You might do it to Medium.
You might do it to anotherwebsite that has an RSS feed
that is picking it and puttingit on another website.
So the more you do that, itwill get to a source where
someone can easily click it andthen use it to train a system,

(01:13:32):
but it's universal knowledge.
Use it to train, train a system, but it's universal knowledge.
the thing is um one person fromtheir perspective they're
writing an article and they theywanted it to reach this number
of people.
But now when you bring in themachine element, it automates
everything within a minute or so.
So it has so much that it picksand that gets used to train a

(01:13:54):
system.
So at the end of the day, Ialways say how did you protect
your copyright?
The companies that are trainingthis AI.
There are certain processesthat they follow.
They either go to anothercompany and they buy a data set
from them, or they script theirown data set.
So at the end of the day,there's a trail of how this

(01:14:14):
machine learning models weretrained so if anyone has an
issue, they can always go tothose companies and tell them
hey, I think you've used my workhere and I was not properly
paid for it.
Then they'll go back to theirtrail oh this is how we got this
information.
Or we we got it illegally, or wemislooked something.
Here's your end of the cut orwe actually got this data from

(01:14:38):
Mike, who is a data practitioner, and he collected it in a legal
way, so I don't think we have aproblem there.
Whatever we used is legal.

Speaker 3 (01:14:49):
Yeah, so do you see a lot of litigations on that
breadth?
Do you have really laws besidesGDP and IPA, all those kinds?
Do you really have laws thatsupport some of these
litigations?

Speaker 1 (01:15:05):
We don't Most of the laws.
They've been very slow tocatching up to sort of what AI
is doing specifically, but thebasic laws that govern how you
collect data still help at theend of the day.

(01:15:25):
So I think we won't.
Moving forward, companies aremore conscious of how they
collect data.
It's either you buy it fromsomeone or you create it
yourself, and whichever human isinteracting at any point, they
have to know this how their datais going to be used.
So I foresee less number ofactual legit copyright

(01:15:48):
infringements, because most ofthe ones that some of them are
just claims that hey, you usedmy work here here.
Here, I need you to pay me forthis and this, and then they go
to court and they actually findout.
Okay, these guys actuallybought this data set from these
guys, so they are not liable.
So they were just supposed tobe more responsible in terms of
how they sell their data and howyou expose your work online,

(01:16:12):
and even with copywritingstandards, creative commons and
all those, they clearly definewhat you can do commercially and
what you can't do.
So I feel like, in some sort ofway, it's a self-checker for
the industry.
But moving forward, we will seevery, very less of these cases,

(01:16:33):
and legit cases, because thereare so many people right now who
are taking this opportunity toyou see one line or one sentence
and then you claim it was yours.
Now you want to sue the companyyou.
It's a very tough job reallyproving that this paragraph of
this sentence is actually yours.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:16:54):
I hear someone is considering you know,
copywriting Mkuru.
Have you heard of Mkuru Mkuru?
Yeah, from MkurugensiMkurugensi.
Yeah, they I mean yes, you wantto copyright it, but it's like
saying I'll copyright Ab bodywhich is.

(01:17:17):
It is language right but thenthat's a.

Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
That's another thing.
We, we, we need to watch out onthe things people are yeah yeah
because people they copyrightvery, very funny things that
they don't even make sense.
You even wonder how will youenforce it yeah, right so you
can.
You can copyright somethinglike a bariango and say
commercially or something, buthow you actually track it?

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
you're preventing other people from using it yeah
people might not use it but inthe first place you didn't own
it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:47):
Yeah, you didn't, you didn't own it.
But we need we actually need tobe checking.
We should have a site thatcalls out these crazy trademarks
that people are registeringthat actually don't make sense.

Speaker 3 (01:18:02):
I think Kipi and any other corporate body that we
have in Kenya should actuallysee.
Cooperating is really importantfor regional work.
But anything else that you arecreative about, it might trend
and stuff, but copywriting isnot really that impactful and we

(01:18:22):
have seen it actually even fromwhat Atwoli was saying.
That trended for several monthsand then he ended up
copywriting and then he died off.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
Yeah, he died.
That's what happens at the endof the day.

Speaker 3 (01:18:38):
So is there any importance?
Do you see the importance ofcompanies collaborating to
advance AI?

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
Yes, very important.
I would say for any techcompany right now, or just any
company at all you should have asmall R&D department or two or
three people who are doingresearch and development, who
are testing out thesetechnologies and looking at how
can you apply them to yourbusiness so that you stay

(01:19:09):
relevant, so that you innovateand even, at the end of the day,
you have your own IP that youcan branch into standalone
products and sell.
So it's very important to beactively doing something.
Yeah.
So the more you hear about it AI, blockchain, web3, augmented

(01:19:32):
reality, virtual reality youknow web, virtual reality,
virtual reality graph databases.
You're hearing about it, youknow you can use it in your
business, but you're not takingthat step of actually doing it
and asking your team hey, thisthing, what's the simplest thing
you can build from it.
So more companies need to startdoing that, especially with AI.

(01:19:54):
If they're not doing it now,then they'll find themselves
they're lagging behind becauseother guys are doing it.

Speaker 3 (01:20:01):
Yeah, very important.
So for you, I'm sure you havedone so many.
You know partnerships, both forcommunity and with your company
, and you've build relationships.
Any you know nuggets on how tomaintain those partnership and
relationship with different.

(01:20:22):
You know people who even getinterested in your work as you
move, because I'm sure some ofthese guys you met them in the
line of duty.
Yeah, you know you ask yourselfwhat can we do together?
Yeah, or how can I help?
And then something can be donefrom that.
Of course, some of those thingsdidn't work.
Some of them worked.
How do you not end up burningthe bridges?
Or, if you need to burn thebridges, what course is that?

Speaker 1 (01:20:47):
I'd say, in community work, documenting your work is
very important from not only anevent perspective, but just a
general blogging, and all thatTo whoever you want to partner
with.
You need to package thenarrative in a very good way so

(01:21:08):
that they actually see it andexperience it.
And then also, don't only sellshort-term, also sell long-term.

Speaker 3 (01:21:19):
Yeah okay, okay.
So you said companies need tobe innovative with.
R&d so in your own experienceor your own opinion, how
important is risk-taking indriving innovation in AI and
here we're talking about now,africa as it is.
You know some parts.
We still have 2G, we still have3G or we have no technology at

(01:21:42):
all.
So, in this case, we areleapfrogging the plastic money,
that is, the card, to M-Pesa.
With that in mind, how are weable to take that risk of saying
, okay, not R2G but how do youuse?
Ai.

Speaker 1 (01:22:03):
You have to take so much risk.
It's a long bet, especially forindustries like AI, where you,
for most of the time, it startsaround research.
You research something, youdevelop.
Of the time, it starts aroundresearch.
You research something, youdevelop it, you package it into
a product and then you sell it.
If you're lucky, within twoyears or one year it starts

(01:22:24):
picking up.
Or it might take you five yearsbefore it really starts picking
up and people actually see it.
So the excuse of 2G, 3g weshould not have that excuse at
all.
I think we're in a globalvillage.
We should not only buildsolutions for ourselves, but

(01:22:44):
also solutions for the globalmarket.
We need to bring in thatrevenue into the country and
reinvest it back into thecommunity and even start other
corporations and organizations.
So we need to widen our lens togo beyond just solving problems
for ourselves, but also solvingproblems globally, because you

(01:23:05):
can't solve all the problemsback home.
So let's say you want to createa solution for your rural home
that is deep, deep, wherethere's no 3G.
There's only 2G.
Right, you can only do so much.
You can't go and look for moneyand put a telecom tower there

(01:23:25):
and now bring 4G and 5G and thensay, ah, now let's apply the
application.
Yeah, you need to focus wherethe technology supports but also
get other partners who see theopportunity, partners who can
now bring in that infrastructurethat is required.
But I always say it's not anexcuse for us Not to develop.

(01:23:49):
Yeah, not to develop becausethere's a lack of infrastructure
.
There's some infrastructure inanother area.
So the fact that you have thenot to develop because there's a
lack of infrastructure, there'ssome infrastructure in another
area.
So the fact that you have thecapability to develop means you
can still sell it in anotherplace that has infrastructure.
Yeah, yeah interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:24:05):
So what kind of solution do you foresee coming
from AI?
Now we have seen which is, youknow, text-based kind of
conversation.
Now they have added audio andit's growing.
At least it's growing, but justone way.
Which other things should welook at?

Speaker 1 (01:24:23):
So the virtual assistant will be very, very big
and I think we really startfeeling it when we extend it
beyond the language, beyondEnglish.
We start doing Swahili virtualassistants, kikuyu virtual
assistants, luya virtualassistants.
I think it would be verypowerful for me to take the
solution to my grandma and theycan actually talk to it and make

(01:24:46):
up stories and all that, but interms of also service delivery
and customer care automatingmost of the processes, I don't
want to go to NTSA to queue fortwo hours, something that I
could have just done online.
To be better.

(01:25:06):
If I just talk to a chatbot,you give it your plate number,
whatever you want your.
ID number and then it simplysolves your problem.
You only go to the center whenyou're having a really big issue
that needs to be addressed.
So service delivery will reallyimprove, both from government,

(01:25:27):
you know, citizen services.
Healthcare services will alsoreally improve.
Education how we learn willalso really change if we really
innovate well around it.
Fintech will also reallyimprove.
So, there are so many touchpoints Of course I can't cover

(01:25:47):
most of them, but the fact thatwe are an English-speaking
nation, as one of our nationallanguages, really puts us in a
very good position to maximizeon the AI tools that are mostly
built around English.

Speaker 3 (01:26:03):
So, now that you've mentioned fintech and you work
for one which is Payless Africa,right.
Are you guys utilizing AI ornot?

Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
yet, yes, we are utilizing AI at different points
, but releasing it at the righttime.
When you're introducing someproducts, you have to start
slowly, give the customer timeto understand how to use the
product before you really dropthe heavy stuff on them to

(01:26:32):
actually use.
But in the background, there'slots of AI happening in the
background, from personalization, fraud and all those things.

Speaker 3 (01:26:41):
Interesting.
So, alfred, I don't know whatyou want to share with our
listeners and subscribers andAfricans at large as your
parting shots.

Speaker 1 (01:26:56):
I'd reference my T-shirt.

Speaker 3 (01:26:58):
Please turn around so that we capture what that says.

Speaker 1 (01:27:01):
Show me the data we have 100 cameras here.

Speaker 3 (01:27:04):
Or created, yeah, so it's.

Speaker 1 (01:27:05):
Show me the data or create it, which it's a mindset
of.
If you're looking for asolution, yeah, okay, they can't
see all of it, but it's fine.
Yeah, show me the data I'vecreated.
If you're looking for asolution and you don't find it,

(01:27:26):
you don't stop there.
You build it if you really needthe solution.
So in the AI space, especiallyfor Africa, there's always this
notion that people share that oh, there are no data sets in
Africa, Yet we have so manydigital businesses that are
creating so much data right.
So we don't have a data problem,we have a data set creation

(01:27:51):
problem.
The data is hanging around you.
You're just lazy enough.
You don't want to be the onethat creates it and shares it
with other people or sell it toother people.
Yeah, so it's just pushingpeople to have that mindset of
if you don't find something,create it.
Yeah, that would be my partingshot.
Ah, very nice, very nice.

Speaker 3 (01:28:10):
Yeah, now for me actually the parting shot.
Nowadays I make it an africanproverb, and today we will take
a can language, and you knowthey say so.
War fee in our sun, kofayayankee is that the right accent?

(01:28:30):
I don't know, just reading theway I see it Okay, but it's
translated and I like it.
By the way, it is not a tabooto go back and fetch what you
forgot.
Yes, and for African brothersand sisters AI can help us
record store, retrieve and useour culture.

(01:28:55):
Because I feel like we haveforgotten most of it.
Some of our young guys don'tsee the use of it or they
actually look down upon it.
So I feel like that's very,very powerful when you talk and
think about AI.
So for our listeners, I thinkuntil next time.

(01:29:15):
Michael Kemadio hosts, and thisis Africa's Talking Podcast, in
collaboration with ImpactMasters Podcast, brought to you
live here in Nairobi.
Our guest today was AlfredOngere, and Alfred, you can
maybe tell our subscribers, ourlisteners, to subscribe.

(01:29:39):
I don't know how you used to dowhen you used to do podcasts,
but that's a good thing.
Let's see if you forgot.
It's been a minute.
Let's hear from Alfred, please.

Speaker 1 (01:29:48):
Go ahead.
Yeah, thank you guys forwatching.
Thank you for listening.

Speaker 3 (01:29:51):
Subscribe and watch our next episode comments like
follow and say them persa thatwill be so kind of them.
If you're listening, ourpodcast is available on all
podcast channels, includingiTunes radio, iheart radio,

(01:30:13):
amazon music, google podcasts,apple podcasts, google podcasts.
Itunes radio, iheartradio,amazon Music, google Podcasts,
apple Podcasts, google Podcasts,spotify, nice, nice, nice
Everywhere that you likelistening to while you're
driving.
Having a road trip nowadays isa trend.
People are having a road trip.
You can listen to Nuggets ofour geeky guys discussing
different things.

(01:30:33):
Until next time, thank you somuch.

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