#50 Impact Master: Tom Building Digital Bridges in African Fintech

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Welcome, welcome once again.
It's a beautiful day, Day ofthe Lord.
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

(00:27):
Today we have a wonderful guestin the house.
It's Africa's Talking Podcast,in collaboration with Impact
Masters Podcast, coming to youlive and direct.
I'm your host, michael Kemadi.
If you want MK, if you're notsubscribed, please press that

(00:48):
subscribe button and ensure thatyou like, follow and comment
where necessary.
With over a decade of experiencein software development, tom
Kibani has worked with notableorganizations such as ICPAK,
strathmore University, clintonFoundation.

(01:11):
He has also spent five years inthe fintech space, with
experience in the psycho andmicrofinance sectors.
Bum's exceptional skills indigitization have seen him

(01:33):
successfully manage thedigitization of over 100 lenders
over the last decade.
He is deeply passionate aboutthe impact of AI in the learning
space and constantly seeks waysto incorporate this technology
to provide more innovativesolutions.
Tom, how are you?

(01:55):
How are you?
Tom?
I am very good.
Yeah, we started with sometechnical itch, but don't worry,
we are back and you're good togo.
It's good to host you, tom.
That's just what I see here onyour profile, but you know,
that's just that for the profile.

(02:16):
So I would like to know who isTom Kimani?
Mori Ranja.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
So Tom Kimani is a passionate entrepreneur, or tech
entrepreneur, who's passionateto digitize the lending space
and the fintech space.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yes, Nice, nice.
Where were you born, Tom?
Take us all the way back.
Where did it all start?

Speaker 2 (02:46):
So my journey starts in somewhere in Naivasha my dad
used to work for a companycalled Kenjen.
So I was born and raised there.
Then we moved to Embu where theSeven Fox Dams are.
We spent a couple of yearsthere.
Then here I am, then going tothere, then here I am, then

(03:08):
going to campus, then the hustlebegan.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
Kaka, you're making this story of you as Tom Kimani
sound like Makonde's story Goneon Monday and by Sunday, gone
Like a little screenshot.
No, no, no, take it easy.
Man like um, you know,sometimes we tend to to think
that we are passed through lifeor as we have lived.
So where did you go to school?

(03:36):
Like you know, since you knowyou are a young kid I don't know
if you are those kids who usedto touch their ears to go to
nursery school or you're thekindergarten kind of student.
Yeah, how was it for yougrowing up, like, take us
through that journey, take us inTomorinai.
If someone hears about thisstory, even you appear there

(03:57):
like, oh my goodness, this wasgood life or this was not good
life.

Speaker 2 (04:04):
For me.
I was fortunate enough to so.
I started in a primary schoolcalled Mvuke.
Mvuke was like the primaryschool inside the power stations
where I used to live.
Where is that?
Mvuke is in Naivasha, olkaria.
Okay, olkaria, olkaria,jyothamo.

(04:25):
You have heard about Jyothamo,yeah, so that's where we started
.
From there, we went to a schoolcalled Gilgil Hills.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Ah, third class.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
I still that was from standard one to okay.
So preschool standard one, twoand three Okay two and three.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Okay, that was Mvuke Primary School.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
That's Mvuke Primary School.
I think in 36 is when we wentto boarding in a very wonderful
school called Gilgil HillsAcademy.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
It's close to the Jodamo plant right.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
No, no.
Gilgil Hills is in Gilgil Next,near Utomishi Utomishi Academy.
Is that not close to Naibasha?
It's very close 50 kilometersfrom Naibasha.
It's not so close.
So I was lucky enough that mydad used to believe in good
education and he used to put allhis eggs into making sure that

(05:21):
you get the best education ever.
So I went to Gilgil Hills.
We spent two years there.
Then my dad was transferred tostill Kenjin, but now Hydro.
Then I went to a school calledWeros Academy.
Where is it?

Speaker 1 (05:38):
It's in Embo, Embo okay.
What is that plant?
Masinga, masinga.

Speaker 2 (05:43):
Masinga Dab.
Masinga, masinga.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
Dam.

Speaker 2 (05:45):
Masinga Dam.
So we started in a.
So when we left Nivasha, SevenFolk Dams is a couple of dams,
Okay, so it starts with Masinga,Kamburu, Gitaro Kindaruma, and
then there's another one.
That is End of the Road.
Have you heard about End of theRoad?

(06:07):
Where is that?
It's called Kiambere.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
Kiambere is still close to Embu.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Yeah, it's close to Embu, but it's actually in
Machakos County.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Because also Embu is a neighboring Kamba nation.
Mwingi yes.

Speaker 2 (06:28):
So my dad went.
So I went to a school calledWero's, finished my KCS, even
KCP, kcp.
Yes, that's it.
That's it Now.
From there I went to Meruschool.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
Okay, what did you get to go to Meru school?
Meru school is another school.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, a good school.
Apparently, I was picked.
I was picked by?
Is it called Jab or what is it?
I don't know them.

Speaker 1 (06:58):
For the high school.
It's not Jab, that isuniversity.

Speaker 2 (07:02):
Yeah, so, but you are .

Speaker 1 (07:04):
I was called.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
I was called to Meru school.
I remember it was very worrying, Everyone asking what is this
Meru school?

Speaker 1 (07:10):
What did you get in KCT.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
I scored very good.
I think I got 420 something.

Speaker 1 (07:16):
Then of course it should be 420?

Speaker 2 (07:19):
423?
.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Supposed to go to Alliance or something.
Guys passed really well thatyear.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
But Meru school was not a bad school.
Steele is not a bad schoolRight now.
Actually it's a national school.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
Oh, it is.
Yes, oh wow, that's news to me.
When were they?

Speaker 2 (07:34):
upgraded?
I have no idea, but I knowright now they are a national
school.
Yeah, so went there from one toform four Typ.
Went there from one to fourTypical student.
You were there during Kariuki'stime Exactly.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
And Kariuki.
Actually, for those who don'tknow, kariuki is one of those
principals, like Hayemba.
For those who have listened toour previous podcast, yes.
There are some guys fromFriends.
Is it Friends?
What Lugulu yes, hayemba wasfrom there went to alliance yes.

(08:09):
Now, for those who know kariuki, he left a huge mark at
alliance actually, before hecame there, he was from middle
school yes yes, just just justto.
I think we should host him oneof these fine days definitely I
think he's.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
He's actually done a podcast with um one of guys.
Yeah, that's nice and it's avery interesting story because
he went from Meru School toAlliance, to Embu County.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Yeah, he went back to Embu County.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, he was appointed as CEC.
Cec, yes, oh interesting.
Then from there, right now,he's in a school called Merusho.
You know, merusho?
No, it's like an internationalschool in Kusho.
You know Merusho, no, no, no,it's like an international
school in Kajiado.

Speaker 1 (08:46):
Oh, that's where now he's the principal.
That's where he's the principal, because me I thought from my
last he retired.

Speaker 2 (08:52):
No, no, no.
In fact, that's most peoplethink, but it was a very
transformative.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
I also saw some weird story about him.
But I also saw some weird storyabout him.
But when we talked with him,I'll ask him A proper lance.
Yes, yes, you should host him.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yes, yes, yes For sure.
So from high school is where Ihad a deep passion for computing
.
I remember all the way from twowe had this interesting
projects that you used to do,building just simple

(09:28):
applications.
So that's where my passion forcomputing started.
Using visual yeah, it wasvisual basic, okay, and I took,
we took computer as a subjectbut later on dropped it because
we were told it had no impact.
We'll say so, that was becausewe were told it had no impact.
Like we'll say so, that waswhat we were told then.

(09:49):
But from there so when theycleared high school, I had one
clear mission I wanted to docomputing.
So in fact, my options are veryclear with Jquart and Roby.
So I was just playing withcomputers.
It was computer science,computer technology, computer.
Computer and mathematics,computer and mathematics You're
just playing with those things.

(10:10):
Did you see BBIT?
No, no, I don't know where BBITcame from, but yeah, I think
it's being started at Strathmore.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
Actually, I think Strathmore are the ones who
started BBIT Something yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
So it was from high school.
Actually, I think some were theones who started the BBFT
Something.
Yeah, yeah, so it was from highschool.
I went directly to Universityof Nairobi and that's actually
where I met you.
You met, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
So maybe I should.
Should you give a backgroundstory of ask me?
But when I met this guyactually I was almost leaving
university and going to prepareto come to the university once
more, because this dude actuallyhad prepared well, one of the
things actually that we noted hehad two stations, two working

(10:54):
stations At home.
He had a whole working station.
Now that I think about workingfrom home, that's when I think
about you.
He had a desktop, a verypowerful desktop with a
mechanical keyboard.
I don't want to say gamingchair, but a nice chair Also he
had a laptop to come to schooland a very big computer.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
You know those desktops that you used to have.
They had a stomach.
What is that thing?

Speaker 1 (11:21):
called Even the used one, cti.
See, see what CRC, yes, crc.
We have a Telecommunicationengineer in the house you are

(11:43):
referring from.
So what made us visit thischief over here is because we
are given this programmingassignment my Dr Chepke now, I
think, is a professor orsomething and then we were
figuring out how do we even goand do this assignment, because

(12:04):
even a laptop itself he didn'thave.
And then this chief is donewith the assignment.
You're like how did you do theassignment?
No, he said, you know, I have aworking station at home where
I've set up my computer.
For those who have gone to theseuniversities, it's not really
easy for you to configure theschool university computer right

(12:26):
and install anything that youwant, unless the technician
helps you install all that.
And also, of course, you knowhow that process, how it goes.
So when we visited this chiefwe were like, oh man, maybe I'm
in the wrong course.
But however, we reallyfast-tracked the process and by

(12:48):
second year, second semester,when you're tested for the
project, we were ready with ourproject, but please, there's
your story to tell.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 1 (12:59):
What made you prepare that much?
Because you see someone whomaybe I don't know with the CBC
if people will be called by jobor something, but there's
someone who completes maybetheir grade 7 now that's their
grades or grade 9 or 10.
I'm not sure where.
You join the university, okay,after form.
The curriculum right now is abit confusing.

(13:21):
But say, you're joining theuniversity and you want to do
computer science, or maybe youwant to start programming from
high school, because right nowit's possible.
So what is this thing that madeyou prepare really well to an
extent that you knew that I needa home working station where I
configure everything, then aschool laptop where maybe I take

(13:42):
notes and copy thepresentations and just be
organized.

Speaker 2 (13:48):
I think my passion for entrepreneurship started
pretty early because when Icleared from four, my dad had
used to own a bar In this dam.

Speaker 1 (14:03):
Yes, Because it's a bit remote.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yes, yes, yes so it's a remote place, so you can live
like a barracks.
Yes, yes, yes, exactly.
So that barracks is a socialhall and that social hall, so my
dad took that.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Your dad must be a senior officer.
Yes, must have been a seniorofficer.
Is he retired now?

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yes, yes, he's retired.

Speaker 1 (14:24):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
So that's where I started.
So I used to run that bar andat that time M-Pesa was starting
.
It was 2007, 2008.
And then I saw this opportunitywhere to register anyone on
M-Pesa.
M-pesa used to pay you, I thinkit was 150 or 200.

Speaker 1 (14:44):
Oh really, yes, so there was a commission around it
there was a commission aroundit.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
So I was like, let's go and apply this thing quickly,
quickly.
Then I came there and startedregistering guys to M-Pesa.
Oh nice, Now.
You see now.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
So that's how you made the money.

Speaker 2 (15:00):
Yes, yes, so that's where the money started from.
So when I used to have savingsof like 6K or 5K just by doing
that, then my dad tops up andyou buy a machine.

Speaker 1 (15:13):
But why would your dad buy your machine?
Did you tell him like I want todo this?

Speaker 2 (15:18):
Yeah, yeah.
When I joined the university.
Exactly, and then we used to.
As we were growing up, we usedto be computer fanatics,
computer gaming fanatics.

Speaker 1 (15:29):
So you used to also, but there you used to again.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
So FIFA Hitman.
There was a game called Hitman,I think.
I don't know if you've playedit.
It was a very interesting game.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
I've seen it somewhere.

Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah Then .
So the passion for computingwas there.
So by the time we went toschool to join first year, still
doing very small we call themsilly but very effective jobs I
remember I used to registerpeople to the NEC portal
Students.
Yeah, you know, my mom was ateacher.
Oh, okay, yeah, so my mom was ateacher High school or primary

(16:02):
Primary school teacher.
Okay, so there was a gap.
Of people need to register tothe next quarter.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So it gives me a list of like600 students.
Then I'm there typing on Excel.
Were you judging them?
Yeah, there's no free lunch.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
How much per student?

Speaker 2 (16:20):
I can't remember, I can't remember, so anyway I
can't remember.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
So anyway, because I remember, you told us when we
were, like you know, getting toknow each other yes, oh, chief
me, I'm an entrepreneur, I'vebeen doing entrepreneurship, so
this is the time I'm hearing howthat entrepreneurship actually
worked.

Speaker 2 (16:35):
So the passion for entrepreneurship was deep inside
me, yeah, and that's how weused to.
So maybe you buy us a monitorthis time.
Tomorrow you buy this chairsecondhand chair and you know we
used to rent an SQ somewhere inJamuri, yeah this chief was
living large.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
When people actually graduate nowadays, they start
their life in Wanyi orKawangwari.
This chief in the universitywas living in Jamuri,
neighboring Sudanese peopledealing with dollars.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Not really Just hustling, hustling.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
You cannot be living in Jamuri and you're hustling.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
But it is interesting that you talk about all these
things.
You don't look at yourself,because you're also a very
inspiring guy, because Iremember you guys used to live
somewhere there in Dagodji, inWanyi.

Speaker 1 (17:36):
Don't exaggerate it In Wanyi those who know Wanyi is
just a number place.
You can start life there.
I actually moved to Jamuriafter I graduated.
You can start life there.
I actually moved to Jamuriafter I graduated.
That's when I could afford tomove to Jamuri.
But all you know like whatmatters is you know you prepare
daily For us.
You know what brought us toNairobi is university and we met
people like Tom, who was wellorganized, and we got inspired.

(18:00):
We also organized over time,correct.

Speaker 2 (18:03):
Yeah.
So in campus we started ourcompany.
You know, we were gainingskills.
Yeah, by the time we were insecond year, I think second year
, we had learned a couple ofskills.
Yes, yes.
So we teamed up with a coupleof guys, a couple of friends,
all of them in entrepreneurship,doing really well.

Speaker 1 (18:28):
If you have seen some entrepreneurs who are from the
University of Nairobi and theyare doing really well, chances
are we also worked with them.

Speaker 2 (18:36):
So there was a guy called Alex Alexander, CEO at
Solitech.
We started a company.
We called it Solitech, NotSunSmart, SunSmart Solutions.
At that time we just learnedhow to build websites.
I remember just getting thefirst website to do in second

(18:59):
year.
It was an e-commerce site for amadam who was running a gift
shop.
And we did that work and we gotpaid and it was the first time
now to touch serious money.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
Yeah, so this is what happened.
So these chiefs, you know whenyou're in the university, the
public university.
There are two in the kitchen, Idon't know if it's in the
kitchen.
There are two places where youcan eat.
So there's where the lecturersand the toms, where they eat,

(19:35):
and it can cost you an arm and aleg by then, and there's where
other people, like you know, mkand others used to eat.
So one of these fine days,myself and CTO at Fintlas Banta,
we happened to join Moriranjain the queue of the actually you

(19:55):
guys never used to have a queueBecause people would pay and
then you sit down and get servedat the university level.
So we get to doing that andthen you guys were curious like
what changed?
I don't know if you rememberthat story.
And then we shared like no guys, you're doing some projects for
some clients and they're paying.
And you are so fascinated bythat like you kept asking are

(20:18):
they really paying with Alex?
Are they really paying?
How are you set up?
Do you have a business?
Do you need to register?
And all that Also.
For us, before we got paidbecause we got this really big
project, we had actually toregister a business so that we
can get paid.
It's a bantamink.
One of these fine days I'lltell this story.

(20:38):
And you know, for check toactually even be paid, you need
all that.
You need a bank account.
At least we had PIN because ofthe ALB and whatnot, but for a
company we had not even thoughtabout it.
So if you do the work, you getpaid, but there's some money
that you don't just get paid.
And then you guys were like,wow, actually we need to be also

(21:02):
building, because you guys usedalready that head start on
building stuff yeah and that'show actually you guys, I think,
started, you know the businessyes and when you got paid,
actually you were so excitedvery excited very excited.
Do you remember how much it was?

Speaker 2 (21:20):
I think it was like 15,000 ah 15,000 20,000 you guys
were like 15,000.

Speaker 1 (21:24):
Ah, 15,000, 20,000.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
You guys were suffering 15,000, 20,000 in
campus.
Eh yeah, it is serious man, itis serious money and yeah,
that's how the entrepreneurshipjourney began.
Yes, yes, and from there it wasschool, school, school.

Speaker 1 (21:43):
Then we got done with school, but you know that in
people you used to get someschool school, then we got done
with school.
But you're not telling peopleyou used to get some good grades
in school In this school,school school.
How many schools have you seen?
Those are his.
He's a guy who used to go toconsults.

Speaker 2 (21:58):
Like why?

Speaker 1 (21:59):
What did you do to what's so special about this
unit that you could be able toget a cut 25, 20?

Speaker 2 (22:08):
But you see, the one thing you learn with
universities is you learn thedisparities in people, because
there are people who don't readLike.

Speaker 1 (22:21):
Who Are you trying to point fingers here?
No, no, there are people whodon't read Like.
Who Are you?

Speaker 2 (22:25):
trying to point fingers here.
No, no, there are people whodon't read.
They don't, they are neverthere, but when results come,
you don't see them in class.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
You only see them when the lecturer is there, even
in class, he's in backbench orwhat.

Speaker 2 (22:39):
But when results come , you realize what.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Mambo is different.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Mambo is different, man, this guy is number one.

Speaker 1 (22:47):
There were no numbers in the university, but grades
could tell you this guy iseither landing second or first
class.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
But what was unfair is that unfairness of you.
You are always in class, alwaysin class, always in class
Taking notes, taking notes.
I remember even peopleborrowing my book, photocopying
when me, and two days to the cut, someone borrowing a book and
photocopying.

(23:15):
And so that's when you realizethere's two distinctions in life
.
There are people who have towork and there are people who
are highly talented.
But in life it's so balanced insuch a way that these people
who have to work and there arepeople who are highly talented,
but in life it's so balanced insuch a way that these people who
are that bright also lack somesocial capabilities.
And you find a guy like you nowand you know how to mobilize a

(23:40):
lot of people towards a cause.
So that's when gifts, differentgifts, start to show up in
different people.
And I remember at some point Iwas a student leader.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Oh, by the way, you were.
Yeah, I was a student leader.
I wasn't in school enough timesto realize you were in school.
Which year?
Second or that?

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Not student leader the politician, they were leader
the politician, they are justsaying the class.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Oh, representative, yeah, representative.
I remember first year, secondyear, now that one I thought,
maybe you ran for office.

Speaker 2 (24:16):
No, no, no, that is political.
I mean, you need politicalmuscle, it is see, it is see.
For me, I think the passion wasin making money and considering
that we were Kikuyu's and Iremember there was a program by
Blackberry.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
I used to run that.

Speaker 2 (24:36):
Yeah, and you see, now this guy started very far.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
You joined for a few events and then you gave up.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
No, we didn't give up .
I've seen the pictures.
No, there was Blackberry, therewas Google, yeah, and so we
used to attend all these clientkind of events and it was glad
that that motion started veryfar.

Speaker 1 (24:57):
Yeah, I mean, if you're listening out there and
maybe in the university it'salways good to be involved in.
Out here, like at AfricaStocking, we do a couple of
arcabounds.
Come and test your skills atyour learning school.
Interact with other developers.
You'll find even softwareengineers in different companies
coming for those arcabounds.
There is now more communitiesthan ever.

(25:20):
Then actually you could counthow many communities are in the
ecosystem.
Those things were starting upthen.
That's when IAB was new and I'mglad I played a key role in
enabling most of those andhelping start most of those.
But nowadays I'm proud to seeso many, even language-specific,
communities led by Baby.

(25:40):
Second, that fourth generationafter we started.
Yeah, maybe second, third,fourth generation after we
started.
I'm still actually so strongabout that because I've seen how
an ecosystem can change overtime If actually people gather
and start challenging each other, learning from each other,
helping each other solvesolutions.
It's not a sprint, it's amarathon and everyone means if

(26:03):
you know something I know and Iknow something you know.
It doesn't mean that now youbecome irrelevant, correct, and
I know.
In school most of the timepeople learn to compete.
Yeah, that's the best way.
I wish CBC started teachingcollaboration Correct, because
you see, when people cometogether, a lot of things
actually become much, mucheasier.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
Yeah and anyway, just to add a point now, sitting
here in the business world,especially in the tech business
world, you now start toappreciate the value of those
communities Absolutely.
You now start to understand whybig companies invest in these
communities, because that'swhere talent is fetched, the
pipeline you have to build apipeline.
You have to build a pipeline,and the only way you do that is

(26:46):
by willing communities.
So never despise them.
Attend all of them.
That's where your talent ispicked.
Don't think people dohackathons just for the sake of
wasting time.
That's when they build talent.
Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
And I believe in the university you have a lot of
free time, to be honest, like ifyou have done it for four words
.
You just need to remember whatthe slides say, not what the
books say.
For the book you can go deepand understand actually the
content, that's fine.
But for you to really get firstclass, second class upper, you
know, you, for you to really getfirst class, second class upper

(27:25):
, you know, you just need toreally understand what the
lecturer is, you know, trying toshare.
Correct and remember the way heshared it, because the one who
will maybe mark your exam.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
And if he doesn't see what and how they share the
concepts, then it doesn't relatewith it.
So the extra time you canactually go deeper and beyond
that.
Now go and test your skill inthese communities, even try to
present, because you seesomething else maybe people who
do engineering don't reallyunderstand clearly is that even
if you build rockets, you needto present that rocket to people

(27:56):
who don't understand what is arocket, right, exactly, you need
to package that and make itmore palatable.
Yes, people who will use thatrocket in a day more palatable.
Yes, people who you know willuse that rocket in a day-to-day.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
Correct yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
Chances of you as an engineer using what you build
day-to-day are a bit minimal.

Speaker 2 (28:14):
And this misconception that just having a
good product will sell itselfUnless you are Apple.
No, yeah.
At the end of the day, evenApple puts a lot of emphasis on
the market, so you have to worktogether with different teams.
Team playing is such critical.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
Absolutely yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (28:36):
Yeah, so continue with my story.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yes, yes, yes, please , it's still your story.
It's not that you have diverted.
Yes, so you do Sun diverted.
Yes, so you do Sunsmarts.
Yeah, alex, were you a team oftwo or four?

Speaker 2 (28:50):
We were a team of four.
We were Arif.
There was a guy called Arif,also still a co-founder at
Solutech Solutech.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
There was Motie.

Speaker 2 (29:00):
Motie was not there.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Awil Motio is not there, I will.
I will Osman from Somalia.
From Somalia, one guy who is soresilient.
Yes, I need to host him one ofthese five days Because that
dude has graduated.
Went back to Somalia, tried tostart an innovation ecosystem.

Speaker 2 (29:18):
Yes, yes, yes, it's something, but he's a very good
guy.
Yes, he is.
And so after school, whathappened for me?
I think there was a friend ofmine called Dugan.
We had grown up with him acouple of years somewhere there
end of the road Kiambere.
So when he finished school hehad done computer science and

(29:42):
was already on the workingmarket.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Jquart, or the University of Nairobi.
Jquart, okay, so he used totalk.
In fact, he used done computerscience and he was already on
the working market.
Jquart, or the University ofNairobi.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
Jquart, so he used to talk.
In fact, he used to livesomewhere in Jamuri and what
happened is since he was alreadyon the working space and I was
also learning in school.
So some jobs, you'll get somejobs and then outsource them to
me.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
Oh, outsource okay.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
Okay, not outsource them to me.
Oh, outsource, okay.
Okay, don't outsource literally, but basically assign certain
tasks to you and then get paidand you get paid.
You know, for him it was like aside hustle thing for him.
So by the time we werecompleting school, he was
already so done with theemployment.
Yeah, so I remember he used, heused to.
He moved to South Bay and heasked me what's your plan?

(30:29):
I was like me, I want to dobusiness full time.
And so he told me about hisdream also was to get into
entrepreneurship.
And then we started a productand we call it Wira.
Wira in Kikui is work.
It was a workflow managementsolution and at that time I

(30:52):
think he had seen theopportunity in workflow
automation and we startedworking on that particular
product.
I remember now, after finishingschool, I had to move.
We went to South Bay and thiscompany thing started sometime
in early 2013, end of 2012, 2013.
We started in a sitting room,in his sitting room, in his

(31:15):
sitting room, because my sittingroom was just an SQ.
So we started our companycalled WorkPoint Limited.
We were doing softwareconsulting and we also had a
product called Wiraio and westarted pushing to the market.
Strathmore University noticedus.

(31:38):
They had an organizer hackathonand during that hackathon it
was like a three-day hackathon.
Was it through iLab?
Yes, through iLab.
And we went and pitched thereand we became number two.
And when we became number two,that's when Strathmore told us
now we'll give you a desk thereso you can operate from here.

Speaker 1 (32:01):
Remember, did the seal have that quacking?
Or the iLab?
I do, I don't know, not asaggressive as before.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
I don't know why they're not aggressive with it.
It's a very great opportunityfor me.
If you had such resources, youcould do massive things.
We went to iLab, we were hostedthere at iLab and what happened

(32:31):
is, while there, we startedgetting outsourced, also by
Strathmore University.
I think at some pointStrathmore offered us a job
opportunity.
We told them no.
To do what?
To be one of their engineers?
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
As consulting engineers or something.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
Yeah, not as employees.
Okay, so we changed that termfrom consulting to from
permanent employees, toconsulting engineers, oh, okay,
and they used to give us acouple of jobs because they had
access to the market.
Yeah, and all they needed ispeople to execute these projects
.
And that's actually what taughtus a lot.

(33:08):
That's what opened our doorsand it's great advice to tell
especially young guys who aregraduating and thinking that all
the knowledge they have interms of coding, that's all that
is needed in the market.
What Strathmore taught us wasnow industry experience, because

(33:31):
now you have to go to a client,you have to get their
requirements, you have tocommunicate, you have to do
project management.
These things are never taughtin any school.
No course on all these things.
These are life courses.
You have to negotiate, you haveto do quotations, temperament,

(33:52):
those kind of skills, and westayed in Stranmore University
from 2013 to 2015.
And in 2015 now we moved now toour own office as Workpoint
Limited Somewhere in Navaheel.
So, own office as WorkPointLimited, somewhere in Navaheel.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
So Wira turned into WorkPoint Limited.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Wira was just a product of WorkPoint Limited, so
the registered company name wasWorkPoint Limited, but we just
named the product Wiraio.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
So in this conversation with the clients is
where you came up with theFlexiPay and iConserve as issues
added.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
So FlexiPay was a project thatwe did for one of the clients
called eSpaq.
Espaq is a certified body foraccountants, so we digitized the
entire member processes, so howpeople book events, how people
pay subscription, etc, and partof it included a payment

(34:52):
mechanism, and that's why wedecided to come with a payment
gateway called LexXPay, and wedid a lot of projects, a lot of
projects between then.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Do you think now doing this project for clients
and then realizing how impactfulthey are, you could actually
use that knowledge to build amore robust and more
well-encouraged solution fordifferent companies.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
As a consultant, the knowledge you get from working
with companies is you get to seethe problems.
In fact, if you look at all,even the next product that we
came up, all Presta, came fromthose, all those experiences,
from the needs of the customer.
So you looking at a gap andrealize, oh, there's a gap there

(35:39):
.
So now you tap into thatparticular gap.
But okay, one thing, that oneexperience that we learned about
projects is cash, or managingcash flow.
One thing is no project goes asexpected, so meaning that there

(36:02):
will always be delays here andthere.
There will always be clients,says clients, we'll pay you next
week that was my next question.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
Did everyone pay on time and pay as agreed?

Speaker 2 (36:14):
I'm telling you, running a startup, especially a
tech startup I don't know aboutother industries, it's all
industries in general yourealize that cash flow is king.
People who have cash is king,because you get a very good
project, a very big project.

(36:35):
They're not paying time youdeploy resources, you deploy
scoders and all these kind ofpeople.
Then you realize okay, clienttold you next week or the CEO
flew went to ZG Web Maldives andit is end of month and you have

(36:56):
people to pay who doesn't knowyou have people to pay you have
everything so, and that's a bigchallenge in a lot of startups
Managing cash, cash flow, andthe banks don't look at you.
I remember one time I had thisgood LPO I'd been given and
there I was as a youngentrepreneur, going to a bank.

(37:18):
The bank tells you what do youwant?
So they want a collateral.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Yeah, what do you want?
What do you want?
Fine, yeah collateral?

Speaker 2 (37:23):
Yeah, what do you want?
What do you want?
Okay, fine, yeah, you want.
Yeah, I can see the LPO is verygood.
But what do you want?
What is the collateral?
What do you own?
As in what assets?

Speaker 1 (37:33):
If you don't own anything, I still have my two
kidneys intact.

Speaker 2 (37:37):
Yeah, yeah, so anyway , that is one of the key lessons
that even necessitated us fromdoing a lot of projects to us
building our own SAS solution,and that transition was.
One of the contributing factorswas the fact that you didn't

(37:59):
have consistent cash.
You're always on running Oneproject closes, you're looking
for another one or anothercloses, you're looking.
But all in all, it was a verywonderful learning journey.

Speaker 1 (38:12):
Because now, if you're running a big company
like Twesta now, and even, Ithink, workpoint has grown to
you know.

Speaker 2 (38:17):
Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Then it gives you some proper experience of
actually managing cash flow,ensuring that you're growing
Correct and ensuring that yourcustomers are satisfied and they
get their products on time.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:31):
So what led to starting Presta?

Speaker 2 (38:34):
So well.
During this experience ofbuilding software or doing
different projects, we got amicrofinance Microfinance that
was looking to go into thelending, digital lending, the
mobile lending.
It was around 2012, and I thinkMshuari had started.

(38:56):
Then there was a product calledCorporacy.
Now the digital lending was nowbeginning and now everyone also
wanted to get into that spaceof digital lending.
So one client came and told uscan you build us an app that can
lend to people?
And yes, we said yes.
We did the work, delivered,hosted on Play Store.

(39:20):
So you started an Android app.
An Android app Someoneregisters, it, checks your score
on CRB.
From that score it allocatesyou a limit and from that limit
you can borrow, sends you toM-Pesa and reminds you to pay.
That's it.
That's the scope of work.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
But implementing that is a different story.

Speaker 2 (39:42):
Yeah, so we started the implementation, did the work
delivered to the client.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yeah, but I'm curious how easy was it to access CRB
APIs?

Speaker 2 (39:52):
So, since this guy was already a microfinance, he
had the networks.
So for you, it's just like weneed the CRB APIs.

Speaker 1 (40:02):
Yeah, just an email away.
Ah, very nice.

Speaker 2 (40:04):
Just an email away.
So after delivering thatproject, I remember sitting in
the office myself and co-founderDugan and asking myself how
many more microfinance want toget into this space?
Ah, how many more circles wantto get into this space?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I think the experience evenstarted with, as a family, we

(40:30):
have like a welfare group and wekept contributing money every
month.
We were just contributing asper family, maybe like two Gs,
and that money is just sittingin IB.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
It doesn't grow, it doesn't do anything In a bank
account.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Yeah, even if it grows, it's 2%, 6% per year and
yet when anyone needs anemergency, they run directly to
Emshwari or these other products.
And that is actually the birthof Presta.
This is 2017.
So we took that project andasked ourselves how can we scale

(41:10):
this business?

Speaker 1 (41:11):
So what is Presta?

Speaker 2 (41:17):
So when we found this idea, the point was to land
Kopesha.
And the first word we thoughtlet's call this thing Kopesha,
but we Kopesha.
And the first word we thoughtlet's call this thing Kopesha,
but we realized Kopesha.
That does sound interesting Iremember in a traffic jam
somewhere in Tikal I googledwhat is lending in Spanish.

(41:39):
Googled.
Then the word Presta came up,oh nice.
Then I looked in the IG ofE-Citizen, it word Presta came
up, oh nice.
Then I looked Is Prestaregistered?
No one has registered.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
You registered then and then.

Speaker 2 (41:53):
Then and then.
So we registered Presta.
So Presta is ideally to lend.
Okay, in Spanish, in Spanish,okay.
And we registered Presta andwent out to the market.
Yeah, and to the market,ideally.
The first target market for uswas charmers.
We thought how many charmersare there?

(42:14):
There are so many charmers, sowe don't even need to charge
this thing.
We'll just charge 20, bob, 20shillings, and then all chummers
will come running.
Yeah, the lines per transactionor per transaction.
Okay, every time someone takesa loan, 20 shillings 20 bob.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
You didn't know how.

Speaker 2 (42:36):
What 20 bob means to what 20 bob means to to us.
Yeah, and anyway we.
So we started humbly there didthey pay this 20?
Bob as a challenge.
They did, but we were not asserious then.
I remember you know, from theseprojects we got some money here
and there.
So we decided let's save themoney, the savings that we have,

(42:57):
let's put together and build aversion one of this thing, an
MVP and we the first charmer torecruit was my family charmer
Got there inside and from therewe started now pushing.

Speaker 1 (43:13):
You're the first person I hear.
Your first customer was yourfamily members.
They trust you really well.

Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yeah, yeah, they're part of the family.
There's different families ofthe family.
There's different families, butthe family Chama was operating.
In a way, it was not about thesystem, it was us coming
together Just digitizing thewhole process, and so we started

(43:40):
pushing to the market.
I remember we attended thefirst Chama conference in
Mombasa.
This is 2018, or, yeah, 2018.
Late 2018.
There was a charmer conferenceorganized by Bandari Saco and
still goes on to date, and so wewent to that charmer Recruiting

(44:01):
more charmers.
Recruiting more charmers.
So we realized a coupleofammers.
But so we realized a couple ofthings.
Okay one and this is some ofthe challenges of running a
startup is okay one.
You are running on very limitedresources, yes, yes.
And on the other side, youstill need to do marketing, you
still need to do salesRecruiting, yeah, and recruiting

(44:23):
is not cheap, yes, so, and andthat's when now you start asking
yourself how for me to pushthis thing, then I need, I need
to get some finances.
I need to get some someone whocan believe in this, whatever
you're saying yeah and invest init and invest in it.
Yeah and um, for, lucky enough,we had a couple of friends who

(44:47):
were seeing what we were doing.
You know, you're just postingon LinkedIn and the first friend
decided I'll sponsor thatmarketing event for you guys.
Yeah, so we went there, startedrecruiting and we recruited a
couple of charmers.
But then we realized Chamasalso have one challenge, which

(45:09):
is they are not structured whenthey meet on Sunday.
After that, there's nosecretariat that runs that Chama
.
So we decided, okay, we go astep higher, a step higher.
From charmer it's actually acircle, because our circle is a

(45:30):
charmer.
Now that has grown beyond.
Now they have a couple ofsavings, now they have an office
and they are a bit morestructured.
And I think in 2019, our bank,my bank, or basically our bank,
ncba, was running.
I remember seeing an email theyare running an entrepreneur

(45:50):
program with StrathmoreUniversity and they were
sponsoring customers.
So you applied.
I applied it was anentrepreneurship course with
Strathmore, so we went to, I didthe course and during that
course I happened to.
It opened up other networksbecause I happened to meet Chris

(46:15):
Senano.
If you know Chris Senano, chrisSenano is MD Telecom and he's
also a believer in startups.
Okay, and at that time you knowyou are?

Speaker 1 (46:25):
Was this before Mugukubati or?

Speaker 2 (46:28):
No, it was.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
Oh okay, mugukubati was CEO, mugukubati was, but no
yeah, Mugukubati was.

Speaker 2 (46:36):
I don't know how old the structure of Telekom.
It's a government company.
But a piece was there and heused to run his own company
called BlackRock, and so duringthe classes of Strathmore he had
a very interesting course whereI come visit your business, you
come visit my business, then Itell you my, you tell your story

(47:00):
and say tell your challenges.
And so one of my challenges weare looking for more and more
investors.
And one guy there I used toknow a lady there called Jackie
connected me to Chris.
There we went.
I remember Chris gave us anappointment on Saturday and
there we went in shirts.
He was just there.

(47:23):
He actually was wearing a shirt.
Do you know how many startupswere ahead of us?
Like 10 startups ahead of usthat morning waiting to pitch to
Chris.
So we got the chance to pitchto Chris and Chris listened to
us.
He was like how much are youmaking?

(47:47):
Like ah, we're charging 20, bob.
Hey, how much are you making?
Like?
Ah, like 50K Per day or permonth?
Per month, it was literallynothing.
Yeah, like no, no, no, no.
Go rethink your business model.
Once you have a good businessmodel, come back.
And that was it.

(48:07):
So we went and rethought themodel and changed the model a
bit to a subscription andtransactional so that at least
we grow our there's enough cashflow.
Yes, we get some cash flows.
And when we came back and Chrisand anyway, a lot of investors
are numbers people yes, he hadaccurate numbers Last time you

(48:30):
came here, you're 50K.
Now you are at 200.
So that's progress.
And anyway, to cut the longstory short, that's when he
decided to invest in Presta.
And from there, what happened?
So we decided, okay, fine, Ifyou invested in us, we'll give
you also the chairman of theboard.
And it has been a journey sincethen.

Speaker 1 (48:51):
So you invested a substantial amount of money.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
Yes, yes, yes, to be a chairman of the board of
Presta.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Yes, you must have.
You know and also you own quitean amount of shares right, yeah
.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
So what we did when we were forming Presta, and also
an advice to anyone building acompany, is don't want to own
everything.
You might be owning everythingof nothing.
You'll be owning everything ofnothing.
So allocate yourself, leavesome shares outside for.
The investment, futureinvestments.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Yeah.
So it's good actually havingthis connection because, um, I
mean, you are the person whoactually got like a local
investor, to just say the least.
Angel, it's an angel investorright?

Speaker 2 (49:40):
no, angel investor is like that you.
He believes in you even beforeanyone else else believes in you
.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
Yeah yeah, which is a good thing, and I think it's
quite encouraging.
And I would love to know youknow, if you don't mind like,
how does that work when otherinvestors come in or when you
grow?
Yeah, is it a challenge?
Is it much easier?
What is that?
Because nowadays, nowadays,people getting screwed left,

(50:05):
right and center by investors,people are starting to shy away
from investment altogether,which I think maybe we need to
refine the model.

Speaker 2 (50:14):
But since you have gone through the process, you
see, at the end of the day, youknow, lack of money is also very
good you know lack of money isalso very good.
Yeah, you know, when you havemoney and a lot of it is your
problems you don't think, youknow, you can't do anything.

(50:36):
If I want to go to Mombasa,maldives, if I want to hire the
best engineers, I go poach fromSafaricom, I go poach from
Google.
You bring them to one space.
But you see, for us the kind ofinvestment we are looking for

(50:57):
was not a lot of money.
We have this mantra that moneyis not the thing that transforms
companies.
Your biggest investor isactually your customer, that
customer of yours.
That is your biggest investor.
So, at the end of the day,every time we were raising money
, it was purely for one thing.

Speaker 1 (51:15):
To reach more customers and make more
customers more satisfied.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
But we're not getting money to get paid ourselves,
and that has always been ourprinciple.
We don't go for hugeinvestments.
We've seen a lot of startupscrumble because you see you get
a lot of money and that a lot ofmoney comes with strings.
It comes with a lot of stringsthat you don't you know.

(51:42):
Anyone who gives you money hasinterest, of course, at the end
of the day.
So either his interest is toexit at some point.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
And some of that money doesn't get into your
account.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
Of course, not all of it is pushed into your account
immediately.
A lot of it is signing that youcan access up to one million
dollars per year, but in realsense what you get is money in
bits and you see.
At the end of the day, the onlything is there has to be
synergy.

(52:14):
At the end of the day, you haveto remember that it is your
customer that will help you grow, For sure.
Yeah, it is not your.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Investor.
Investor has invested in like100 companies all over the world
.
Yeah, it is not your Investor.
Investor has invested in like100 companies all over the world
.

Speaker 2 (52:28):
Yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
So, yeah, that's very , very important to share.

Speaker 2 (52:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:33):
And in this case, you have seen some substantial
growth with your company.
Yes, does it bring some goodenergy to your team to see that,
okay, these guys, they are anangel investor.
The dream is still really, youknow, fresh for the whole team

(52:54):
and you are growing, howeverslow but steadily, you're
growing.
When you acquire more newemployees you have with growth,
does it become a challenge fornew employees not to understand
why you started this company?

Speaker 2 (53:12):
That's a very interesting question Because,
you know, the one thing thatI've seen with a lot of
companies, especially youngcompanies, is you having proper
organizational structures, orwhat you call corporate
governance.
And that has been a key turningpoint for Presta, because you

(53:37):
can imagine you run a companythat no one questions.
You have no one who questionsyou.
But now when you form a, whatdo you call it?
Like a company structure orlike someone who answers to that
, every quarter there is a boardmeeting and during this board
meeting, it is purely todemonstrate accountability,

(54:02):
accountability that we give you.
X.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
Or we approved X.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
What is the impact?
Show us the Y, and that's a bigthing, because you can't be a
master of everything.
You can't be a master ofeverything For me and for us.
For example, for me and Dugan,we realized both of us had
engineering background andengineering alone doesn't sell

(54:31):
anything.
So after some time I realizednow I have to figure out the
commercial bit of this business.
And now him, he focuses on thetechnical, and that's how we are
able to have a very goodsynergy that for me, I'm the guy
who is outside there pushingthe business, the business out

(54:53):
there, and you have to recruitand and, and one of the things
that, to answer your question,is one of the advice that we got
from the board is sometimes youhave to hire people, pay them
more than you're earning.

Speaker 1 (55:12):
That's very interesting.
Pay them more than what youearn Because they know what you
don't and they will bring morevalue to the company than you
are bringing.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Yeah, and even for Presta, we, as part of our
journey, we at some point we hadto do that.
We had to like, find someonewho had access to the circle
market you get and then broughtthem, brought them in, and so to
bring him in.
Of course, he's already workingin somewhere that he's earning

(55:42):
very well, true, he's alreadyworking in somewhere that he's
earning very well, true, true.
So other than just the visionyou have to pay him something.
That is, you know you have anemployee who you're paying
higher than yourself and you'rethe one who is approving that
payroll.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
He looks like that.
You looked at that.
Check yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
And you are thinking twice.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
Who is who in this company.
But when you remember the valuethat this guy will bring,
you're like, okay, I mean, it'sabout the value.
So I think that was somethingelse for the employees that you
need to really build your value.
Yes, to some extent that valueis irresistible in terms of how
companies are willing to pay,and this reminds me the Netflix

(56:24):
job that was going around foralmost a million dollars Half a
year and everyone was likewhat's that?
And they were looking for aJava, like serious Java engineer
, a couple of experiences, andalso there's some specific
things that he's supposed toknow.
And you know, most guysactually give up on the back end

(56:46):
.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
JVM staff.

Speaker 1 (56:49):
For obvious reasons, one wants to debug throughout
the night and the weeks, butideally it pays off over time
because, if you even think aboutthe banking system, most of
them are legacy products whichruns on these languages.
For those who are doingengineering, those who want to
pursue engineering, it pays offto understand deeper.

(57:12):
The deep, yeah, so that'sinteresting to see.
And, of course, I know a coupleof guys who really make a lot
of money within a short timebecause they know what they're
doing, correct.
I've been sharing this in thecommunity, though, so I'm like,
okay, that's interesting.
So you hire this guy who bringsin the circle market.
Does he bring the value?

Speaker 2 (57:38):
He's still a part of the team to date, so he's good
at what he does.
Good at what he does.
But then you see, there's a lotof hypothesis that any
entrepreneurship and also us, wewent on there.
We went to the circle marketthinking that it is a touch and
go and only to realize thatcircle market operates in a very

(58:04):
slow fashion.
They are never in a rush.
The whole idea is it's aboutpulling resources together.
So it is literally the decisionmaking is multiple people.
Yeah, so just that you want toaggressively market and you
wonder why are they not closing?

(58:26):
So you have to have a lot ofpatience.
You have to have a lot ofpatience.
Of course, by then we startedas a very simple product, a
product that can give loans,short-term loans.
So someone goes to his phone orthe USSD dials, say one month.
So we sold to Saco 1, Saco 2,Saco 3.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Which means you label that Saco to that brand and
then the end user doesn't know.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
Actually what happened behind the scene, but
that's pressed up.
Yes, yes, yes, in fact it isfully white labeled.
If it is Ketepa, for example,is one of our clients, it's
Ketepa.
We went to the pilot circle, wewent to Britam, we went to ICA.
We managed to convince so manycircles, to small employee-based
circles, to join the platform.

(59:15):
And then we realized, oh, this,then everyone in the technology
space, all our competitors,just focus on one thing Very
co-banking.
So what most people refer likethe back office solutions.
And that's when we decided,okay, why can't we be innovative
?
A lot of circles today, 90% ofcircles, or even 99.

(59:41):
If I went alone, I have to gofor a fall Somewhere.
Sure, sure, phys go for a form.
Somewhere Sure sure, physically,physically, sign that form.
And Tsako is about guarantors,so I have to find my guarantors
Physically, physically, let themsign, let them sign, let them
sign and remember during COVID,now paper and exchanging

(01:00:02):
contacts became something thatis not right it was illegal.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
actually, it was illegal.
They were arrested for it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
And the best the SACOs will offer was you write
an email, write an email hereand there.
And so what we did?
We created an innovation, andthis innovation was that you
could digitally apply for thisloan, seek a guarantor,

(01:00:30):
digitally.
So if I want Mike to guaranteeme, I just search him from my
phone book.
Mike receives an SMS and inthat SMS we created what we call
an e-signature or an e-form.
So the same circle form thatyou're signing today is the same
form that you'll get.

(01:00:52):
So that SMS has a link and thatlink, when you click on it,
opens the same loan applicationform, only that now you don't
need to fill anything.
All you need to do is just toencrypt all your signature.
And once you sign, you can bein Mombasa, I can be in Eldoret,
I can be in whatever andwhatever, and I'm good to go and

(01:01:12):
I do my signatures and I'm doneso.
And we started selling thatparticular product to the big
circles out there and we managedto get some.
But, as I told you, that wasone of the biggest lessons that
we learned that circles don'tmove with anxiety that fast.
You know there's no circle, yougo and they're like that's a

(01:01:36):
bad product, this is a wow, thisis best.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
It will save us a lot of hours.

Speaker 2 (01:01:41):
Save us a lot.
But you now moving from thatstory to closing the deal it
might take.

Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
How long has it been?
Eight months, eight months,eight months to a year.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
So it is one of the biggest learnings that we
learned.
And anyway, to date, we stillhave a couple of circles.
We've done very seriouspartnerships with a lot of
co-banking providers and we arelaunching to more and more
circles.
Very nice, there's a circle inGong Road.
They are called WanahangaCircle.

(01:02:14):
This is the circle for themeteorological department.
I remember this is a very goodclient of ours because we
started very small with thattechnology.
Today they are not doing anypaper anymore.
Oh nice, so all loanapplications are digitally done.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
Yeah, you remind me when I was still at the
university with Banta, when wewere looking for more projects
we went to Meteorological Centerand said you know, guys, we had
visited Netherlands and we sawone of the biggest solutions
that you could provide isweather, and it was very
important for the farmersbecause, you see, now you can

(01:02:52):
tell if it will rain.
Should I plow my land usingtractors?
Should I add some fertilizer?
See, that information is very,very important.
So he said look for us, we maynot go.
We don't know any oneorganization for the farmers.
Neighboring is a meteorologicalcenter, a quarter actually.
So why don't we go and actuallyhelp them digitize and come up

(01:03:14):
with a weather app that is justKenya?
Yeah, oh, my goodness, the oldguys there, I don't know if
they're still old.
He was so excited and they saidthis is Actually something you
have been looking for, butthere's a meeting coming up
where we'll go and discuss theseissues.

(01:03:37):
It will be one of our agenda andafter that meeting we'll get in
touch with you.
Guys, Do you have your CVs withyou?
Do you have your business cards?
Please leave them with oursecretary at the door.
We'll call you Guess what.
Several months down the line,you saw the tender getting
floated with the specifics ofwhat we pitched yes, and the

(01:04:00):
rest is history.
So, guys, the guys who are incharge of this, you know
department and organizations.
And I'm happy to hear that youguys actually are helping them
digitize the circle.
Yeah, it's one win story that Ithink let's be more
accommodativeize the circle.
It's one win story that I thinklet's be more accommodative of
the innovation.
It will create more jobs.

(01:04:21):
Because, I also realized thatproject was given to one of the
relatives, never materializedreally well because they didn't
really own it.
But you see, when Tom orsomeone, or Kamau or Njoroge
creates a solution, they canactually create an employment
that actually employs not onlyyour cousin, not only your

(01:04:44):
nephew, not only your brother oryour sister, but it can create
more opportunity for everyone.
Correct, fairly Correct.
So that's something I thought Ishould share along the way.
Right, so that's something Ithought I should share.
But, tom, when it comes tocircles and you know, digitizing
the processes, data handlingand all that, you know, there's

(01:05:07):
a lot about data protection andall that, yeah, and I know for
sure, when you're handling loansand you know people from the
circle, there's a lot of dataflowing around, correct.
How are you guys managing that?

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
Yeah, so one is you have to comply to the Kenya Data
Protection Laws, kenya DataProtection Act, which we've
already done that as a dataprocessor and as a data
controller, but the actualcontroller is actually the
circle.
So the thing is, at the end ofthe day, I love a philosophy

(01:05:41):
that Google has, and thatphilosophy says that don't be
evil.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
I think they took that philosophy back some few
years ago, but it's a goodphilosophy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:53):
So at the end of the day, the point is you.
You know all these circles andtrust you with their information
.
So at the end of the day, youhave to make sure that you're
integral enough to ensure thatyou can get rich quickly.
You can deposit 5 million inyour account, no one will notice

(01:06:13):
, but the reality is, at somepoint someone will see.
And you know, a good name isbetter than a good check.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
Even the Bible says something about a good name.
The Christians and the peoplewho read the Bible and
internalize it, they know what agood name is.
They say it's better than afine wine or something, but it's
in the Bible somewhere.
So this is something, actually,that has been there for a long,

(01:06:44):
long time, and it's wisdom thatyou can share.

Speaker 2 (01:06:47):
Yeah, but anyway, at the end of the day, you know,
the biggest risk is the biggestrisk to any of these
opportunities or threats isactually your employees.

Speaker 1 (01:07:02):
I asked you the guys who join you now they don't
really even understand.
Some guys join and as the teamgrows, sometimes there's some
oversight, yes, and they don'tknow why you're doing this For
you.
You're just trying to solve aproblem that exists and actually
that the customer sees the ballyou need Correct.
Someone would be coming for thecheck.

(01:07:22):
They're like you know what?
I'm broke this month.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
And you see.
So one of the things that wetry and do, of course, you have
to make sure that you identifyall your threats and mitigate
those threats and if you've seen, a lot of circles are hacked by
the way and no one sees andmost of the time, yeah, 90 of
the time it is a developer thatused to work for organization x.

(01:07:48):
Yes, and they knew someone atthat circle.
And then they leave the deal.
They do the deal there and say,ah, we can, for every 10 000
that is withdrawn, let's put 100shillings, yeah.
And then, because it's small,small monies, yeah it was to a
lot of by the time the circle isrealizing they have lost 15
million and by the time theyinvestigate.

(01:08:09):
So at the end of the day, youhave to put in a lot of these
measures, Like for us.
What we do is the way we areintegrating with Safari or this
busman requires you to havecertain keys, and so what we do
for us is those keys areencrypted, so no one, including

(01:08:33):
us, the founders, know what thekey is.
So it is a circle that knowsthat this is the password that
they put At the database level.
It's just an encrypted key.
So at the point of transacting,that's when it is decrypted and
sent.
I've talked too much Dragoon,but the idea is you just make
sure that the system is secure.

(01:08:55):
The system is secure.
You cannot be 100%, but thosemeasures that you put make sure
that they are safe and secure.
And anyway, let me tell youwhere you are Handling money,
you will see the craziest ofpeople.
Money is tempting, money isvery tempting.
Forget even us as a serviceprovider, even the officials of

(01:09:20):
the circle.
Someone is a treasurer there,someone is whatever Chairman,
chairman and the kind of deedsthat they do.
Your left one ring what?
Or you know someone registers,like a phone number.
That phone number takes a loan.
So you see, at the end of theday, you have to just put in a

(01:09:41):
lot of controls, controls,controls.
And we've learned, you know,experience teaches you.

Speaker 1 (01:09:47):
Have you paid the money that you didn't lose
yourself to these guys?

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Have we paid money?

Speaker 1 (01:09:53):
Like someone you know did these guys have you paid
money.
Like someone you know did somemonkey business.
And then, of course, they saidyou know, presta is the system
that is handling this money.
You have to pay this money.

Speaker 2 (01:10:03):
No, no, no.
But you see, at the end of theday there is investigation that
has to happen.
And now when we realize thatsomeone had too much rights so
he put in his sister, hisbrother, his cousin and all of
them took money.
So when you realize such kindof it was genuine because he was

(01:10:27):
an official of the circle.
But now what you put in is alot of measures.
Now, even if you are anofficial, you have to have a
maker and a checker so that youcan't have a maker and a checker
, so that you can't have toomuch power by yourself.
So, yes, there are a lot oflearnings.
You have to work with theclient.
At the end of the day, customerobsession, as Jeff Bezos says,

(01:10:51):
you have to be very obsessedwith what the customer is facing
at that particular point.
Don't solve what you think.
And anyway, any tech companywho has learned this the hard
way they think that they know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:08):
You don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
You keep learning you don't know, go see what your
customer is facing, and once yousee what your customer is
facing, and once you see whatyour customer is facing, now
invest in those particular areasand anyway it's a learning jump
.

Speaker 1 (01:11:24):
So this actually leads me to ask something have
you guys ever used this data tomake financial decisions for
either the customer or thecircles?

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
now that you have access to all this data, yeah,
so what we do is we're able toadvise the circle.
For example, like our circleclients, we have microfinance
clients, so we're able to tellthem on certain trends, we're
able to advise them on whichproducts actually are going.
Yeah, why don't create aseven-day product or don't

(01:11:56):
create a one-month product?
Well, your client only needs aone-month or, sorry, a
seven-days loan, and someproducts come from a lot of
experience.
So you'll find that you have acircle that has some business
and business people.
All they are looking for ismoney today and then they sort
it at the end of the day.
So money today, and then theysort it at the end of the day.

(01:12:16):
So money in the morning, sortit at the end of the day, but
you find the organization.
Since they don't have data,they have created products that
don't really work for them.
So once you have yes, wenormally advise our clients from
the data that we've learned, orthe data that we've seen from
the system.
We now use it to advise theclient.

(01:12:38):
Who are your best performingclients?
Give them discounts, it's likethose.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
So in these discussions, has it ever
benefited the end user, which isnow, or is it always, your
client?
But the person who actually isthe end user, who is the
customer of your customer, nevergets to benefit, even how his
data is used.

Speaker 2 (01:13:01):
Actually, at the end of the day, the customer or the
member of the circle is actuallythe person you're solving the
problem, for the circle is justa partner to help you solve that
particular problem, because atthe end of the day, for example,
if you are to create a product,that product has to serve that

(01:13:25):
particular customer.
So even for our e-learningplatform, we have gone through a
lot of iterations just bylistening to the customer,
because initially we startedwith a USSD process Someone
applies.
But when you listen to thecustomer we realize that they

(01:13:49):
want a very smooth process andanyway, at the end of the day,
to answer your question is, atthe end of the day, you have to
position the product to servethe customer.

Speaker 1 (01:13:58):
Yes, that's very interesting because my next
question will be around theplatform itself.
Has it ever been hacked?

Speaker 2 (01:14:13):
So, you see, hacking is a very big word.
So you see, hacking is a verybig word and a lot of even the
circles don't really understandwhat hacking is.
You know, hacking is meaningthat you've intruded the system

(01:14:40):
and diverted money here andthere.
If you look at how we are doingour security, we host with the
best technology providers orcloud service providers that
have put in resources andsecurity measures to make sure
that the platform is safe.
So we will not say that we'vereally been hacked.
What we've experienced before ispeople misusing their rights.
Okay, I see, people problem,it's a, it's a personal problem,
it's a personal problem.

(01:15:01):
But, all in all, uh, we have ateam that continuously ensures
that our systems are safe.
Yeah, so they we.
At the end of the day, it'scalled a resilient being cyber
resilient.
Yeah, that you are continuouslyidentifying threats, yeah, and
mitigating those particularthreats.
It's called resilient beingcyber resilient that you are
continuously identifying threatsand mitigating those particular
threats.
And, as I told you, anytime youhandle money and, for example,

(01:15:26):
I can say, like last year, wedid disbursement, loan
disbursement of close to 2billion Among all the lenders
combined.
Yes, so you see, it's very easyto miss 20 million.

Speaker 1 (01:15:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
Because it's a lot of transactions people applying
loan, paying applying loan soyou have to be very keen in
terms of security measures, true, true?

Speaker 1 (01:15:52):
Yeah, so Tob.
Yes, there's a time we startedsome hospitality business.
I don't know if it's you oryour partner, but I saw it
actually and actually Markycreated it very aggressively.
Yes, Tell me about it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
Yeah, so anyway.
So my wife, yeah, happens tolove hospitality.
Okay, okay, yeah, so, and so Iremember us visiting the coast
region at some point.
Then we were like, how muchmoney are we paying these guys?
So we started our own the B&Bsand we did a couple of them and

(01:16:35):
to date we still own and run acouple of B&Bs.
And we did a couple of them andto date we still own a couple
of BNBs, own and run a couple ofBNBs business.
So I'll say it is another sideof business that I am invested
in, but mainly run by yourpartner, my partner, because you
saw it somewhere.

Speaker 1 (01:16:54):
Yes, you actually pushed it in a couple of your
platforms and it happened to myfriends.

Speaker 2 (01:17:00):
I remember pushing to a couple of friends I like this
.

Speaker 1 (01:17:04):
I thought even about it, by the way, and also I
invested in this platform.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
I like it because it is disrupting the traditional
hotel business, Because yourealize that most of the people,
when you travel, most of thetime you want to get the same
home experience that you hadback when you come from.
So it's another business idea,business opportunity that we

(01:17:32):
tried and yeah it's still goingto the date.
I think we have a couple ofthem running.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
Do you think if someone does the same experience
in Africa they are up, not?

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
there.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
Do you think it will be different in terms of how
they look, feel?

Speaker 2 (01:17:50):
Yeah, so you realize that even now that I am in that
space, you'll find that most ofthe business you'll get is
actually by referral.
Yes, yes.
So unlike the West, wherepeople don't talk, they're not
so social, they're not so socialIn Africa it is.

(01:18:12):
I know, mike I don't know howto translate that I have a house
in Meru, so the BNB style issuch that you have to go to BNB,
find a house there and thensearch.
But here we want to recommendto get referrals here.

(01:18:38):
So, yes, there's a bigopportunity in that space.
And you've seen the threatsthat have happened this year
when people are being hacked.
And you realize, yes, thereferral process works very well
, but it still lacks theauthenticity of trusting who is,

(01:18:58):
you know, like right now youjust get a phone call.

Speaker 1 (01:19:01):
Hey, I'm on a mic.

Speaker 2 (01:19:02):
You know and you don't even know who that person
is.
So at the end of the day,there's an opportunity,
especially for anyone who wantsto get into that space to do
things like verification.
Yeah that by the time I'mcoming I have a profile that has
been scored and said that thisguy one is good, has been

(01:19:25):
referred by one, two, threeBasically mimic how we do things
in Africa, not how we do thingsthe BNB style or the
bookingscom style.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
And even this goes to dating, now that you know life
is becoming busy.
Yes, yeah, there's a friend ofmine who is building something,
but when he launches, you'll seeit.
The dating space.
Yeah, okay, so he started offTinder.
Yeah, I like his.
I've seen the background of thesolution and I like it.

(01:19:59):
Actually, if it gets to launch,it will be a game changer.

Speaker 2 (01:20:05):
I think there's a lot of opportunities in Africa.
Yeah a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
A lot.

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
Even like, for example, our products.
We've gotten a lot of inquiriesbeyond Kenya, so we are
currently doing implementationin Zambia oh nice, yes, and also
in Botswana.
There's also Asako in Botswana.
Okay so have you launched thereor just trying to do the
business?
No, we are doing theimplementation, we're doing

(01:20:31):
implementation.

Speaker 1 (01:20:31):
Okay, so you're just based in.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
Kenya for now.
Yeah, we're based in Kenya.
It's basically a client thatgot SOAS online acquired, so why
not?
Why not?
So right now we are doingintegration with a bank in
Zambia.
So the thing is, I remember oneof the big guys telling me stop

(01:20:56):
thinking too small.
As Kenyan entrepreneurs, wethink too small instead of
asking ourselves what is theaddressable market, what is the
addressable market in?
Forget Kenya.
What is the addressable marketin the world?

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
Even in the world.
In the world, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
Yeah, like I've seen India building starting to
compete with the US.
Yes, yes, and they are doingvery, very amazing products at
half the cost, for sure.
Like we are partners with acompany called Zoho.
Yeah, I know Zoho.
Yeah, so Zoho is anIndian-based company.
We started called Zoho.
Yeah, I know Zoho.

(01:21:35):
Yeah, so Zoho is anIndian-based company.
We started using Zoho duringthis journey of entrepreneurship
.
At some point we wanted aninvoicing solution and as I was
Googling, I found Zoho, and fromthere I found I wanted a very
cheap accounting.
You know that time you'rerunning a startup, yeah, you

(01:21:57):
want something affordable.
You want something that is free.

Speaker 1 (01:22:01):
Not even affordable.

Speaker 2 (01:22:04):
By the time you start making money, you are paid, and
Zoho walked the journey with usand at some point we thought,
yeah, we can also run this.
We can also consult this, as wecan also consult to companies
that need this kind of solutions, like, for example, the Saco
clients that take our productfor loan management.

(01:22:24):
They still need an email, theystill need an office solution,
they still need a CRM, forexample, they still need a help
desk solution.
So that's where we decided wesigned a partnership agreement
with Zorro and told them that wecan help you push this thing
amongst our clients.

Speaker 1 (01:22:43):
Oh, so it's more of a partnership.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
Yes, a partnership agreement, and we sell, we
augment Presta together with allthese products, because we want
our clients to know us as asolution provider, a person who
solves my problems, one-stopshop, a one-stop shop to solve
my problems.
So and we've done that for acouple of years and we still are

(01:23:06):
as a partner, until even theycame by the time we were signing
partnerships, they were not inKenya.

Speaker 1 (01:23:10):
Yes, yes, now they've set up shop in Westland and now
we are even making the salesprocess very easy and
straightforward now that you aretalking about collaboration,
you use a lot of Africa StalkingAPIs, which one do you use.

Speaker 2 (01:23:25):
Please tell us about them so remember, africa
Stalking is an interestingjourney because I started using
Africa Stalking in a schoolproject and at that time we
wanted to build a product thatcan send SMS.
Do you remember when you weredoing projects?

(01:23:45):
So one of the requirements ofmy project was to send SMS.
So I googled.
I found Africa Stalking.
Then we started using AfricaStalking and we started using
Africa is Talking, and we'vecontinuously since 2010.
Yes, yeah, since 2012.
I know 2012 thereabouts.
We've continuously used Africais Talking.

(01:24:08):
We started with SMS, went tovoice for because we run a call
center where people call us,that is actually using Africa
Stalking APIs Nice.
Now we went to USSD.
Now we started with shared USSD.
Now you have dedicated.
Now we have dedicated USSD Verynice.
So Africa Stalking has been agood partner.

(01:24:31):
Even one thing I've liked is,over time, they have really
stabilized.
You know there's a lady calledMary Claire, mc.
Mary Claire, you call her MC.
I knew her a couple of yearsago and she takes my phone at

(01:24:52):
Sunday, on Sunday.
That tells you how muchdedication she has.
Shout out to Mary Claire.
Shout out to her.
Yeah, she's a very good.

Speaker 1 (01:25:01):
I don't know what she does right now A big customer
experience yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
But she's very good and anyway, we've collaborated
with Africa Stocking.
Now we are going to Malawi.
We still propose to the clientto use Africa Stocking APIs.
So, africa, anyway, as yourightly said, you have to
collaborate.
Yeah, you find a problem.
Africa Stocking solves it,don't reinvent it.

(01:25:27):
Yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (01:25:28):
So actually yeah, this was actually off the mic
where I was having a side chatlike how African companies need
to rethink in terms of how doyou work together, because at
the end of the day, you know youdon't have all the time and
resources to do everything.

Speaker 2 (01:25:45):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:25:45):
And even if you did everything, you would not do it
as perfect as you know someonewho does their day to day day to
day.
So collaboration is the key andthe beauty of Africa's Talking,
as you have heard, is that ifyou are scaling throughout
Africa, it's a good partner.
And, of course, actually sincelast year, we are more focused

(01:26:06):
on our customers and how canthey scale?
What do they need?
Also introducing them to someof our clients, because you see,
serving Africa-wide, you getdifferent clients who have
different needs, but some ofyour other customers actually
provide those needs.
A good example is payment.
We used to offer payments andwe eventually stopped, but now

(01:26:29):
we recommend some of our paymentcustomers to the people who are
looking for payment solutions,and this is good we have been
working telecos across Africapayment customer to the people
who are looking for paymentsolution.
Yes, and this is good.
We have been working in telcosacross Africa doing some ABUs
with them, so in thatcollaboration I actually find a
lot of growth in it both ways,for both someone who is giving a

(01:26:51):
gig and the gig that we'regiving them.
So it's a way to go.
It's the future Before we leavethe gig that we're giving them.
So it's a way to go.
It's a future Before we leavethe dating that I mentioned.
I had a question around it howhas been your dating life as a
tech bro?
You know you're the guy whocould get into the.
I remember during our schooldays get into your house at 6.

(01:27:12):
You leave there at 7.30 goingto class.
Yeah, when we have a Harleyclass, when we have a, get into
your house at 6.
You leave there at 7 that yougo into class.
When you have a early classyou'll see you at 11.
How has it been your dating?
Because now I know you'remarried, you have a family.
How was that journey?

Speaker 2 (01:27:28):
so you want the dating side, the dating side of
the story.
Yes, yes you know, most techbros are suffering, and then
it's very hard to find of thestory yes, yes, no, it almost
takes bros a suffering, yeah,yeah.
And then it's very hard to finda spouse that actually
understand their yourentrepreneurship journey.
They don't understand why youshould not get a job.

Speaker 1 (01:27:51):
And leave the house at eight and come back at seven.

Speaker 2 (01:27:54):
No seven.

Speaker 1 (01:27:55):
What do you mean?
Midnight, midnight, drunk A bitdrunk.

Speaker 2 (01:28:00):
No, at times it's work Okay, at times it's work.
At times we, you know,sometimes we have a client that
has to be delivered, so we'llsleep in the office, okay,
transnight, transnight by thetime we're leaving, that's done.
Okay, transnight, transnight bythe time we are leaving, that's
done.
So the dating journey has been.
You have to, you know, find somany people by the time you

(01:28:24):
settle to one, but yeah, so youhave to.
I will say that my journey hasbeen good.
I have a very supportivepartner.
We do a lot of businessestogether.
Yeah, you're spoken like amarried man, but Rick on the
other side you know, in any goodthing in that iceberg you don't

(01:28:49):
see what is under.

Speaker 1 (01:28:50):
Me.
Even I was not interested inmarriage.
Marriage has its own story.
We'll talk maybe 10 years later.
I wanted maybe before, becauseyou see there's that journey
where now you're saying you'relooking for different partners
Correct, this doesn't work.
This one wants this that youcan provide, or maybe they want
this kind of person.

(01:29:10):
You are not that person.
So how was that?
Because you see, there's somany, as I said, guys who want
to pursue even engineering.
In general, it's time consuming.
Sometimes you need some focus.
Sometimes you know there issomething you need to work on
you don't need, you don't havemuch time on your hands.
So I don't know, for you was iteasy.

(01:29:33):
Maybe you met 2-3 people.
The 4th one was the right one.

Speaker 2 (01:29:36):
It was difficult it was difficult because you have
to you have to kiss so manyfrogs, as they say, before you
actually find the right frog.
Yes, so you still find the frogand at the end of the day there
is no.
You realize that you leave thisone for this one.
The mistake you found here, youfind another one here, so at

(01:29:58):
the end of the day, dating hasits own experience.
So my advice would be you haveto make a decision.
At the end of the day.
There is no perfect person, youjust have to take it.
And there's no perfect person,you just have to take it and you
have to take it and you have totake it.

(01:30:19):
You have to take it as you go.
I don't know what yourexperience is.

Speaker 1 (01:30:24):
Mine.
I'll share one day.
I'll share one day.
But it was.
I mean it is, I'll not say moreor less the same, but it was a
bit because, for me, I set outmy mind long time ago on what I
want, how I want it, and Did youfind it, of course?

(01:30:45):
Of course, after how many tries?
Anything that you are you'relooking for, you'll find it.
After how many tries?
Just two or three?

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):
Yeah, two or three.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:30:56):
But of course there are those who just say, okay,
this is not it.
Yeah even before it starts,you're like okay If I give, like
the Gen Z's are saying nowadays.
So, please, as we come to close,what is your parting?
Shots for the guys who are, youknow, starting up, you know,
starting their day?
Shots for the guys who arestarting their day, because

(01:31:18):
there are guys who maybe justregistered a company a few
minutes ago and they're like youknow, I'm going to make
billions, I'm going to makebillions.
So what do you have to say tothat person?

Speaker 2 (01:31:32):
So my parting shot is there is a lot of opportunities
in this country.
One of the things that you needto explore or you need to do is
to diversify, or basicallydiversify your networks.
At the end of the day, it's notonly about products.
Even if you have the bestproduct in the world, it has to

(01:31:54):
be sold to someone, and thatelement of selling you have to
figure out how to do it.
So my parting shot to you isgrow your networks and expand.
That is how you expand yourbusiness.

Speaker 1 (01:32:09):
Very nice, very nice.
And maybe talk to us, listen tous for subscription, like and
whatever.
Yeah, directly to them, please.
And maybe talk to us, listen tous for subscription, like and
whatever, and you know, yeah,directly to them, please.
And they also talk a bit aboutPresta for those who don't know
about Presta.
Yeah, yes.

Speaker 2 (01:32:28):
So at Presta, we are revolutionizing the lending
space.
We want to disrupt this howlending is done in this market,
and that is exactly what we do.
We work with a lot ofmicrofinance.
We work with a lot of circles.
That is our core business.
I'm glad to be part of thiswebinar and I will encourage you

(01:32:51):
to subscribe and hit that likebutton.
Podcast.
Thank you so much, tom.
I will encourage you tosubscribe and hit that like
button Podcast Podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:32:57):
Podcast.
Thank you so much, tom, andwe're really honored for you to
grace this podcast.
We're trying to tell authenticAfrican stories.
You have just started and weare growing as a big world, and
thank you for everyone who havefound our stories really
educative.

(01:33:18):
You have shared a cup of wisdomand you have seen it good to
subscribe.
We really appreciate um, evensome of them commenting, uh,
giving feedback, recommendingtools.
I remember when we started withone mic uh, my, my, my, my
producer, videographer,photographer, everything is
behind this camera.
And here we are today and Ilove it.

(01:33:41):
But we made it our habit toclose with African proverb, and
we borrowed this from Spice FM,where we have Mdu, and these are
the guys who I like listeningto.
It's a sober conversation mostof the time, and today's proverb

(01:34:03):
will come from Swahili Tumiauli cho uli, tumia cho kale.
What this proverb means inEnglish is that use what you
have put together or hand inearly days, so early days could
be today for you.
So whatever you learn today isan investment to your future.
So for this and many moreepisodes, subscribe to our

(01:34:29):
YouTube channel.
Also, we are in all podcastsacross the spectrum, that is,
apple Podcasts, spotify Podcasts, google Podcasts, amazon Music,
hi-hat Radio and many otherpodcasts.
Whichever is your favorite,please tune in and show some
love.
Until next time, I'm MichaelKimathi and this is Couch to See

(01:34:51):
of Africa's Talking incollaboration with the
Buckmasters.
See you.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#50 Impact Master: Tom Building Digital Bridges in African Fintech

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

#50 Impact Master: Tom Building Digital Bridges in African Fintech

Crime Junkie