#53 Impact Master Dennis Okangi: Fish, Freezers, and Funding A Tech Entrepreneur's Tale

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Thank you.
You are hosts.
This is Africa's TalkingPodcast, in collaboration with
Impact Masters Podcast, bringingyou movers and shakers in tech,
but this particular podcast wehighlight hardware tech.

(00:39):
We are still in the coastalregion of Kenya, mombasa, and
it's quite amazing to look atwhat is happening at the marine
economy and what movers andshakers here are doing to
empower the economy around here.
But in the meantime, check outafricastalkingcom.

(01:02):
They provide you SSD, sms,airtime, mobile data, voice API
solutions.
When you think aboutcommunication and 2G last mile
communication, africa Stalkingempowers business and for
developers.
Our APIs are always up to dateand ensuring that integration is

(01:24):
easy.
Check them out.
So what do you think aboutmarine economy?
There are a couple of thingsthat comes in mind, and one of
those things is that how dofishermen and, among us, how
people consume the coastalcuisine, if I may call it that,

(01:46):
value chain processing and allthat?
So today we have an amazingguest that I'm going to
introduce to you shortly.
So today we have Denison Kangi,who is a passionate impact
innovator and socialentrepreneur committed to

(02:08):
leveraging technology forcreating a better world, and his
core focus lies in developingand implementing technologies
that drive positivetransformations in both society
and the environment.
Dennis Okangi is a computerscientist and also considers
himself as an electricalengineer.
He's been an active communitymember.

(02:29):
I think I met him back in 2016or 2017, just immediately or
just close to when he wasgraduating.
Dennis, dennis, dennis, how areyou?

Speaker 3 (02:50):
I'm good, I'm good.

Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yeah, nice to be here with you today.
You know you told me Eightyears down the line We'll have a
sitting.
When did I meet you?
Is it 2016, 2017?

Speaker 3 (03:02):
Around 2016.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, nice, nice nice yeah and then he was trying to
figure out what do I do withthis knowledge I have?

Speaker 3 (03:14):
yeah yeah, you know that was the time of campus when
you're still in college tryingto understand how best you can
apply the knowledge you gain incollege to do something
meaningful yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
So that is before even the college.
I would love to know where didhow best you can apply the
knowledge you gained in collegeto do something meaningful?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So Denny, before even thecollege.
I would love to know where didit all start?
Where did Denny start?
Where were you born?
How was it like?

Speaker 3 (03:34):
Well for me.
I was born and raised here inMombasa, even though I'm
originally from Kisii.
Yeah.
Kisii.
Yeah, I'm a Kisii, so I've beenborn and raised here in the
coast region.
I think growing up I've beenmostly kind of having enough
time interacting with people inthe fish value chain.
Yeah, so it's been quite around15 years growing here in the

(03:59):
coast region.
I went to high school inMombasa, moifos Academy.
Yeah, then, from Moifos Academy, then I went to Prongo
University in Canary.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
Coast.
But before that, Dennis, whichpart specifically were?
You born in Mombasa.

Speaker 3 (04:16):
Likoni.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Likoni, yeah, and Likoni has some history.
You know one part I've not goneor visited, like you know.
Visit and see how the cultureis in Likoni and I would love to
know how is life there?

Speaker 3 (04:29):
I can say Likoni, it's a bit easy life.
I think things there are a bitcheap.
Even the population right nowis quite growing, because in
2003, people were actually notreally it was really not really
densely populated, but if you goright now, the population is
quite huge.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
I don't think we'll be able to find even a piece of
land for you to Is that?

Speaker 3 (04:56):
good or bad In two ways.
It might be good because now wehave enough people in place,
but also it would be bad becauseyou know every time in a
densely populated place,everything is there.
Yeah, yeah so.

Speaker 2 (05:11):
So that means, there is enough food people are a bit
happier.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
I can't say enough food, but what I can say is that
, uh, because of the highpopulation, things are also
quite um, I can say quiteaffordable, the housing.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
How much is a house per month?
Maybe say one bedroom.

Speaker 3 (05:31):
You know the houses there mostly are this Swahili
culture thing.
So you find you can find ahouse for about 8 to 10 thousand
, or even 6 to 10 thousand,depending on the type of house.
Is it like an open house about?

Speaker 2 (05:45):
8 to 10,000, or even 6 to 10,000, depending on the
type of house.

Speaker 3 (05:47):
Is it like an?
Open house yeah, open sharedwashrooms and stuff, this kind
of lifestyle.

Speaker 2 (05:53):
So that's why you find it's more affordable to
most people and in that culturenow people would ask is there
privacy?

Speaker 3 (06:02):
I can't say there's privacy, because I think if
you're able to picture thisswahili the, the swahili house,
how they they're structured.
Yeah, uh, I think they havebeen built in such a way that is
to for people to be able to tospend less, especially on rental
stuff, so you being able toshare washrooms and bathrooms

(06:25):
and stuff with maybe eight orfour people in that kind of
house setup.
Yeah, that one privacy might beless because all the houses are
kind of facing each other atsome point.
So it's quite.
It's really not quite safe whenit comes to privacy.

Speaker 2 (06:46):
Do you see kids learn things that they're not
supposed to be learning at ayoung age?

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah, what I can say, it's quite For us.
I think during my time you willfind it difficult when you have
different households living inthat kind of house Someone who's
well-off and maybe you're justseeing adjacent to someone who
is as a family, but they'rereally not well-off.
So you can find that kind ofexperience how your kids feel
when others are watching TV andyou don't have TV and that kind

(07:12):
of an environment.
Yeah, so it's kind of acompetitive environment whereby
kids really go through a lot andlearn a lot because they are
always close to people withdifferent lifestyles.
And also is it a safeenvironment in terms of security
.
I can't recommend that.

(07:33):
It's not as I said.
People live in thoseenvironments not because that's
the best environment, but that'sthe most affordable way to live
.
That's why most people wantcheap housing and stuff.
I think they have to move tothis kind of rental spaces.
I see.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
So how did you navigate?
Because you spent maybe most ofyour primary school in that
environment, right?

Speaker 3 (07:57):
Yeah, my primary school life.
Mostly we were in a rental.
I think it's until 2004 and2005 there, yeah, when my
parents decided to purchase apiece of land to be able to set
up our own small structure inlicorne so I think after that

(08:17):
time that's where things startedchanging a bit the lifestyle
changed a bit, security changeda bit privacy you can fence, you
are you can, yeah, you at leastyou can do most of your things
in a private way, yeah.
So, yeah, I think that's thetime when we were able now to
start living kind of our ownfamily life, yeah, but

(08:39):
previously living in that kindof a soil environment, soil
housing culture it was reallyputting us under a lot of
pressure, a lot of challenges,especially now.
As I said, you cannot controlwho has to stay in that house.
Different house people livewith their own rules.
There are people even drunkards, can stay there.

(09:01):
The issue there is as long as wepay, you're also paying.
So, this is the culture.
You've rented this space.
I've also rented near to you.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
So I can do whatever I want.
So you don't choose yourneighbor.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
Yeah, so it's tough.

Speaker 2 (09:16):
And most of the people there are just I'll not
say they are costarier.
They're people who just migrateto coasts Finding a better life
and it know it's like it'ssomewhere to start absolutely.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
Yeah, I think most, most population there is not
basically from the coast region.
Yeah, it is it, it is quite.
I can say it's quite populatedpeople from other regions yeah,
and then there's element ofdiversity.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
Do you do you think that diversity actually
contributed to you know thehighly bringing up, knowing how
to interact with people tryingto solve the problems that
people are facing in day to day?

Speaker 3 (09:52):
Of course, One of the things is that being able to
live in an environment wherebyyou're living with people from
different geographical locations, different regions, it makes it
easy for you to be able tolearn different cultures, even
to be able to understand howbest you can interact with them,
and that really, at some point,also creates that strong bond

(10:14):
within the community.
But if you're in an environmentwhere you're only living with
maybe one community and that isit, it becomes a challenge when
you're moving to a differentlocation meeting a new community
.
It gives you a tough time to beable to cop or to blend.
In.
Yeah but Lekoni culture, Ithink a lot of different people
from different regions have cometogether, everybody living in

(10:37):
their own culture and stuff.
But yeah, I think also that onealso makes it easy for people
to know that, okay, we are allfrom different places and we are
here for business or for otherthings.
So it even makes it easy forpeople to coexist.
Because, it's nobody theresaying that you came to us.
We all came here and we met andwe are doing business, yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
So you say sometimes it was a bit hard for those kids
who have TV and the other oneswho don't, or these other
families having two meals.
This other one has one meal.
So which family were you?
The one with the TV, or no, no,we never had TV.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
I can say there's a time we even used to it's
interesting.
So sometimes, when it may bebut there's a time we even used
to, it's interesting.
So sometimes, when it may benews time and stuff you have to
maybe stay at the window of yourneighbors to be able to see
because they have access totelevision and stuff.
Probably the only thing youhave is radio, so sometimes you
have to go close to the windowand watch news and sometimes you

(11:41):
will find yourself here withyour family members watching.
TV no family member so that onewas really creating.
I can say the image is not good, but we really need to get up.
They don't know what's going on, also for entertainment
purposes.
But that was the kind ofchallenges growing up and that's

(12:03):
just one side of the problembut the other side of the
problem, but the other side.
The problem now will be if yourfamily with young kids people
want to go to other families andwatch tv because you don't have
or something, so that one as afamily or as a father or a
parent, it really poses a lot ofa lot of challenge to you.
It's either now you find a wayof bringing that kind of thing

(12:23):
to your house, if you have theability, and if you don't have,
you really have to worry a lotfor your kid because you don't
know whatever happens in thathouse, neighbor or something.
Yeah, so that kind of culture,I think it has its own positives
and negatives, but negatives Ican say it's much there are more
, because there is also childmolestation and, you know,

(12:46):
raping happening.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Uh, your security?
Where people get attacked andkilled, yeah yeah, yeah yeah, so
you go to school.
Which school did you go tothere at uh, in likoni, is it?

Speaker 3 (13:00):
oh, my primary school was consulate catholic primary
school.
Yeah, I think it'sikoni I thinkit was just 300 meters from
where I worked, From where youstay.
Yeah so, yeah, so it was quitea very short walking distance
yeah, and here you used to hissit.

Speaker 2 (13:16):
You know You're the kid who everyone wants you to be
.
How was that experience?

Speaker 3 (13:21):
You know, in a family of five whereby you're the only
boy in the house, I think thatone really gave me a challenge.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
Oh, you're the only boy in five siblings.

Speaker 3 (13:30):
Yes, so that really gave me a challenge, even though
at my younger age I couldn'treally realize that, but growing
up I had to realize that yousee, at some point it's me, my
dad, and then we have to watchout.
So it's me my dad and then wehave to watch out.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
Are you first born or I'm the second born?
Second born you still look likea first born.

Speaker 3 (13:50):
Yeah, I have a bigger sister who yeah?

Speaker 2 (13:52):
Who checks on you?

Speaker 3 (13:55):
Who checks on me?
Now?
What's the age gap?
I can say three years.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Still, you know you and your dad.
Yes, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
So yeah, so I think growing up it was easy for me
from my primary school becauseit wasn't really that far, even
though growing up in that lowincome background a lot of
things were really kind ofconstraining my studies, yeah,

(14:29):
as a young kid yeah, so yeah,like, what I can say is that our
parents were not able to havethat stable income that could be
able to sustain you in schooland also your siblings and the
siblings yeah and sometimes youknow you have to give priority
to the ladies because as men wecan easily cope with changes and

(14:53):
stuff.
So it was quite a toughenvironment, but we really tried
our best.
Our parents tried their best,in various dimensions, to ensure
that we were in school.

Speaker 2 (15:06):
So did you ever miss a whole year, or maybe a few
times, because you couldn'tafford the fee and the siblings
have to go to school?

Speaker 3 (15:16):
I can't say that.
I think primary school.
We were all in governmentschool.
It's a government school.
So I can say things were notthat quite difficult when it
comes to schooling.
The only challenge I think thatwas it's a government school.
So I can say things were notthat quite difficult when it
comes to schooling.
The only challenge I think thatwas there was things outside
school.
So how can a household of sixpeople be sustained with

(15:37):
probably a father who's acarpenter?
So during that time things werequite tough and this really it
was quite a struggle for my dad,Especially because I can say
mostly he was kind of thebreadwinner To ensuring all
those things were put into place.
But even though my mom alsoInto Into other businesses, she

(16:01):
was a teacher.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Primary school or high school, primary school.
So even though she had that,passion of school or high school
, primary school.

Speaker 3 (16:06):
So even though she had that passion of having her
own school and stuff, but sheused to teach in one of the
schools, in Likoni now, does shehave the school?
Yeah, oh nice right now she'sdoing well with a small school,
I think.
I deal with.
I can call.
What do you call this gradestamp?
Pp1 yeah, those kind of stuff.
Tilt standard 3.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
So it's growing or it's growing.
She started with the PP1.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
PP1 growing up yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:32):
Nice, that's amazing.
Yeah, yeah, it's good.
When you look at it, you'relike man.
Everything comes togethereventually.

Speaker 3 (16:38):
Yeah, of course for her.
That was the vision she hadbecause she her that was, that
was the vision she had, because,uh, she, she was a teacher.
Yeah, that's what she is sheretired now or yeah.
That's why she decided to haveher own kind of um, create her
own line of impact in terms ofeducation and stuff and it's
still in in likoni.

Speaker 2 (16:58):
Wow, that's amazing man like yeah it makes a lot of
sense.
So you, you, in this primaryschool, you know you have the
siblings, you know maybe youmissed a meal or two here, or
maybe you want new uniform notcoming as fast, or maybe you
have to forego shoes.
How is it for you to balancethat?
And you know, say what you know.
The most important thing isjust school and focus and say

(17:22):
you know what, this is it.
This is the only thing I needto make right.
You know it is say you knowwhat, this is it.
This is the only thing I needto make right.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
You know it is interesting because in your
primary school, from standardone to standard four, you really
don't care.
Even you don't realize thatthings are tough.
You don't realize maybe youneed another trowel or something
, until maybe the teacher tellsyou that.
But you're really in thatcomfort zone whereby it's you
and your parents stuff.
But it is from standard six,where by now things are changing

(17:48):
.
You know, even when you'regrowing up growing up, a lot of
things change.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
You want to?

Speaker 3 (17:56):
yeah, exactly so that's the age may probably
where you put a lot of pressurenow to your parents telling them
I need now to change, to havehave new shoes new clothes.
Yeah, but it was quite anenvironment where we could
understand our parents, know thekind of struggle they are going
through and just try to copewith it, Plus also now the kind
of motivation they used to giveus in terms of how the future

(18:19):
could be bright if we could workhard during that time.
Yeah so things could turn around.
So that's one of the thingsthat really kept us intact.

Speaker 2 (18:29):
And when you look at that, now that you are, you know
I consider you now a grown-upand will get there you totally
understand the struggle.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
I totally understand the struggle.
Yeah, because for me I can saythe age I'm in right now.
I'm even now trying to say youknow, even my dad used to tell
me you know, right now, as a kid, you really don't see much but
just grow up, you.

Speaker 4 (18:51):
I think the things you'll answer yourself yeah some
things will come clear as well.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Yeah, so I think, at this point of time, there's a
lot of things which is which arecoming out clear yeah my dad
wasn't.

Speaker 2 (19:02):
Was was struggling but for a reason.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (19:04):
Yeah, things needed to be in order.
Yes, so at this point of timenow, that's when now you see
what the parents were goingthrough during that time.
Yeah.
And you really don't want tohave that kind of environment.
That's why you really have tothink twice when you're making
kind of decisions and stuff,yeah, so yeah, when you're

(19:24):
making kind of decisions andstuff, so yeah, so I think they
really tried their best innurturing us up and trying to
make sure that we are the bestof their versions.

Speaker 2 (19:32):
Yeah, and you've turned out great.
So in primary school did youreally perform well, right?

Speaker 3 (19:41):
I can't say I performed poorly but, what I can
say is that I really workedhard.
But what I can say is that Ireally worked hard, but what I
can say is that probably it'sthe environment, the challenging
moments whereby you don't haveaccess to electricity in your
house and stuff.
The only time you have a goodtime to study is probably in
your school.
But I can say primary schoollife, as I said, from standard

(20:07):
one to level four.
Kids just want to be kids andstuff so studying was really
quite a challenging time,especially now when you're using
pressure lamps and cross alarmsto study.
It was really not a goodenvironment for someone, for a
kid especially, to be able tohave enough time for herself to
study and be the best in school.
But I can say I think bringingup of a child, especially when

(20:33):
you have parents who really knowthe struggle and know what
needs to be done for things tochange, that's the kind of
motivation we really had,because our father was really
pushing us so much in terms of,like access to resources as
little as they were, but wereally saw.
So his effort in terms of likehim pushing us to be able to, to

(20:54):
take the opportunity to learn,yeah, and that's why I can say
that for me, I realized myselfwhen I was 36.
That's when I really startedworking hard.
Yeah, that's when I came to mysenses like, hey, I need to work
hard because this is real.
The challenge you're goingthrough at home is real and if I

(21:17):
continue this way, whoever isbehind me are my sisters and the
weather in front of me is stillmy sister.
Yeah, so they reach a point.
They're saying they have a bigbro yeah so what will happen if
the big bro and can't show upcan't show up so that really
gave me a real challenge andthis really is what really
pushed me into.

(21:38):
I really need to, to get a goodgrade in kcp so that I can go to
a better high school and abetter university, so that I can
change the lives of our parentsand stuff.
Yeah.
So for me, it was more.
It wasn't more of myselfstudying, it was more of me
studying to Get out of this, Tochange the lifestyle we're
living in.
Yeah, so it was.

(21:59):
I was doing it for our parentsand something like that.
Yeah, because you know thatkind of experience whereby you
see your parents struggle, yeah,and you're like, no, this can't
proceed this way.
Yeah, yeah.
So I was actually having thatkind of motivation Let me do
this to change home, and that isit.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Nice and you really turned out well for your class
eight.

Speaker 3 (22:18):
Yeah, my class actually got 325, which is
really flying colors for meduring that time.
Which year was this?
2004.
2004, I think.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
That must be really.
You outperformed yourself giventhe environment and the
circumstances.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
I remember there was a time I was scoring 299 marks
consecutive until I was like why299?
Why not 298?
And I was like, hey, maybe thisis what I'm going to get in KCP
or something, but I reallytried my best.
Getting 325 wasn't a joke forme.

Speaker 2 (22:55):
I knew like you celebrated.
How did you celebrate aftergetting the results?

Speaker 3 (22:59):
You know I didn't celebrate.
What I can tell you is that Iwas really fighting to get a
scholarship and what I can tellyou is that during that time
scholarships were reallycompetitive Because I knew very
well if I go to a high schoolthat needs my parents to still
go back to their pockets.
I was missing out Because now Ihave sisters behind me.

(23:21):
I also have another sister whois now in high school and I need
to join high school and Ialready see the struggle.
So for me I was like I reallyneed to try to get a scholarship
.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
And scholarship cutoff points were like 300?

Speaker 3 (23:36):
400.
400 months.
During that time it'scompetitive.
Then you see at some pointscholarships.
They are looking at people whoare from not well of family
background but, also doing well.
Yeah, yeah.
So there were so many who aredoing well and they are also
from not so well familybackground.

(23:56):
Yeah, yeah.
But the good thing is thatbefore, during that time, my
parents I think my father hadthat kind of.
it was kind of of I cannot sayit's a strategy, but he had
connected me earlier to one ofthe scholarship uh, I guess
organization, liconi, and weused I we used to attend a lot
of the activities even beforeduring my class six, seven, and

(24:21):
through that kind of bondage andstuff we had developed a very
serialized relationship in termsof like even working with those
orphanage kids.
They used to support having allthose kind of activities
together, without having in mindthat these are the people who
probably in the future couldsupport me academically.

(24:43):
But when I finished, when I gotthe results, it was really quite
challenging for me because Icouldn't get selected, because
it was really competitive yeah Iremember when I was, when I was
in their team, when they werekind of shortlisting, one of the
team member told me that thisprocess is quite competitive and

(25:03):
they couldn't be able to tohave that kind of a gap from a
lot of students who are 400, alot of students who have 350 and
above, who have been filterednow they come to me to 325.
But I think they went back totheir committee committee and

(25:24):
say you know what?
I think we have walked a verylong journey with Dennis and we
need to give him a chance.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
That's how you cut it .

Speaker 3 (25:30):
Yeah, I surprised them tomorrow in the morning.
They came and said you knowwhat?
Just take this scholarship Wow.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
What is the name of the scholarship organization?

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Hatua.

Speaker 2 (25:37):
Network and how many scholarship organizations are in
Nikoni?
For me I only know Hatua.

Speaker 3 (25:43):
I really don't know whether there is any other which
is providing apart from it'sjust recent.
Apart from now, banks providingthese kind of new scholarships.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
So Atua has been there for a long, long time.
You can imagine from now when Ifinished standard 8, that's the
time when that's like 20 yearsnow.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Not 20 years.

Speaker 2 (26:02):
More than that.

Speaker 3 (26:10):
I think 18.
Yeah, 15, 18.
Okay, yeah, yeah, I during thattime I think they they in
lakoni.
They they were mostlysupporting students in lakoni
who are from disadvantagedbackgrounds but, also doing well
, okay, yeah.
so for me I can say it wasreally big of luck.
At the same time also having agood background with them,

(26:31):
without knowing that this couldlead to something else, really
contributed a lot.
So I think, yeah, of course,but their support, they gave it
was really immense.
And it was not just scholarship, there were quite a lot of
things put together apart fromjust going to school.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
there's a lot of trainings a lot of yeah, yeah,
trainings in what?

Speaker 3 (26:56):
one financial literacy there's a lot of
training.
It comes to uh, what can I say?
Um, what can I say?

Speaker 2 (27:03):
Is there computer?

Speaker 3 (27:03):
studies.
They also provided extra I cansay other trainings like
computer study skills whilestill in high school which was
really adding value to whateverI was doing Actually, I can say,
if it were not for theircomputer classes.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
You would not have done computer science.
And how long did you do it?

Speaker 3 (27:27):
actually I did it.
Uh, I did it immediately.
I finished high school.
That's when they enrolled me toa computer class ah, so you are
with them throughout.
So from my high school I neverdid any computer related thing.
Okay, but once I finished highschool, that gap period when
you're waiting to join college.

(27:49):
That's when I realized like Ican do some packages here and
there, learn a bit basiccomputing skills, but I never
realized that that could reallychange me into like let me
pursue something in IT, becausewhatever I was called for to do
in college it wasn't IT.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Wait a minute, we are still in high school, so you
get the scholarship.
Which high school did you getinvited?

Speaker 3 (28:14):
to.
I was invited to join MoeForces Academy.

Speaker 2 (28:17):
That is in Mombasa.
Mombasa, yeah, and there's MoeForces Academy in Akuru.
Yes, is there another MoeForces Academy in the country?
Nairobi.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
Nairobi yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:30):
So you joined Moi Forces Academy in Mombasa.
It's a prestigious school, yeah.

Speaker 3 (28:39):
I don't really remember whether I was really
called to Moi Forces directly.
I can't remember the school Iwas called to, but I remember
through the scholarship.
Is that how you got to Moifos?
Yeah because now probably I hada good network, because they
take a lot of their kids now toMoifos.
So for me.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
I kind of got a connection to yeah, you're like
put this 325 here.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
You can imagine now.
So for me I think it was luckafter luck.
Sometimes I really don't callthings luck.
I think things also happen as areason.
Of course, because who knewprobably, if it were not for
those kind of activities I didbefore doing my KCPE, is what
probably added value to megetting selected among the few

(29:27):
so I can say all of those kindof blessings to realize the big
dream that I really wished for.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
So you joined Moifoss Academy, Mombasa.
It's boarding right, yeah, butit's not far away from home.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
Yeah, it was boarding .
However, I started as a dayscholar.
Okay, did they have day schooloption?

Speaker 2 (29:44):
started as a day scholar.
Okay, yeah, so they have thiscall option.

Speaker 3 (29:46):
They had a day school option.
Yeah, and voting during thattime yeah so I did.
I did till, uh, form two.
That's when now I had to againnow paid for my body okay, yeah,
it was just school fees for aday but realize that now we need
more time in form to so that wecan concentrate on studies more
, have access to whatever weneed, because now, you see,

(30:08):
still in high school, we'restill living that kind of
Swahili setup.
And what I'm telling you?
Which is really quitechallenging.
And going back to study there.
It was quite not a goodenvironment, especially now when
you're in high school.
So having that opportunity nowto remain in boarding yeah, it
really gave us enough conduciveenvironment for us to focus on
studies.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Yeah so when you you joined the day school, how was
that journey for you?
Do you still face the samechallenge where you can't go in
the evening and do someassignment or, you know, revise
or check out some?
You know what you have learnedthroughout the day.
Does that present anotherchallenge now in high school?

Speaker 3 (30:48):
No what I can tell you.
My high school, I think I toldyou I realized myself from
standard six.
That's when I started kind ofputting myself together and
saying I need to do somethingfor myself and for the people
behind me.
So in high school I happened tobe selected as the assistant

(31:09):
head boy in form two, and yousee that now changed everything
for me.
From that time now I had a lotof opportunities, and then in
high school I also started thiswhat you call a science club.
So for me the whole idea washow can I make maximum use of
the school so that I'll be ableto maximize the resources that

(31:30):
are there?
So from there I was able toparticipate in various
competitions.
We call them mathematicscompetitions science congress.
So all of those things reallygave me a lot of exposure in
terms of projects coming up with, innovation and stuff and this
really contributed a lot interms of giving me a context of
exposure in terms of projectscoming up with innovation and
stuff and this reallycontributed a lot in terms of
giving me a context forenvironment in school.
Yeah.
Being a head boy, I think atsome point.

(31:52):
Being an assistant head boy atsome point gave me also
privileges Having good time inschool, not really suffering a
lot.
What do?

Speaker 2 (32:00):
you mean.

Speaker 3 (32:00):
What I mean is that leave alone leave.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
What do you mean?
What?

Speaker 3 (32:04):
I mean, is that leave alone Less duties?
Less duties, sometimes Specialfood.
No, special food was the mainone, because now if you go to,
if you go to the catering room,you don't queue lines.

Speaker 2 (32:14):
And sometimes you actually, you're the top layer
always.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
Top layer.
At the same time, you couldeven be served well.
So that one was really, andsometimes you have meetings with
the principal.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
So you can present your grievances first.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
You see, yeah, so there's quite a lot of
opportunities and for me itreally, even though I came to
realize that still, it was goingto cause a very big challenge
on my side, why it was notactually reducing workload, it
was really giving me a lot ofresponsibilities and I realized
that I was really not going tohave enough time for my school.
You can imagine For your schoolwork.

(32:49):
Exactly, so you can imagine.
Now I'm in school, I need tostudy.
Then there's this sciencecongress mathematics contest.
I need to attend because theyused to select people performing
well in specific subjects thatrelated to the competition.
Yeah.
So if it is mathematics contest,they select a few people who
are doing well in mathematicsyeah if it is science congress,

(33:10):
they select people probably whohave ideas that can be presented
and that can sell well, and youwanted to participate in all
these things I want toparticipate in all those things,
plus, a head boy is always hadat seat if there is a team going
for a trip head boy must bethere or if head boy is not
available, they will send theirdeputy.

(33:31):
Yes, if there is a student whowant to travel, maybe they are
going for an event somewhere.
There is always that kind ofyou need to go with a student
leader.
But for me, I think during thattime now, I really felt like I
really had a huge gap in termsof like I need entertainment, I
need to have this kind of tripsfor me.
I think during that time now, Ireally felt like I really had a
huge gap in terms of like Ineed entertainment, I need to
have this kind of trips For me.
They were luxurious so I reallynever wanted to miss.
Again, I can say that in myform one and form two I was not

(33:57):
really on top 10 list, but whatI can say is that I also came to
realize myself well in highschool in form three.
Form two somewhere there.
That's when I realized time ismoving.
I don't have enough time for myschooling.
So, even though the leadershiprole that I had in high school,

(34:21):
I never dropped it.
What I dropped was actuallyresponsibilities.
High school, I never dropped it.
What I dropped was actuallyresponsibilities.
So I decided, like, let me justbecome probably a class
representative.
So I left that role to someoneelse.
You see, every year you electnew staff.
So I decided now to remain aclass rep.
You see, now a class rep.
You can stay for longer.

(34:42):
If probably the students likeyou and stuff, Then you're
always a leader.
So for me I really like thatkind of leadership stuff because
of also the opportunities werethere yeah but I avoided bigger
roles to also minimizeresponsibilities.
Yeah, yeah, so, yeah.
So high school high school wasquite was was quite interesting,
especially for have being ableto participate in those kind of

(35:03):
opportunities.
Having able to set up a scienceclub in high school really gave
me a lot of opportunities, evenbeing given keys to science
labs, laboratories, where wecould be able to study at night
and even probably do practicalsas a club.

(35:27):
So that really gave us a lot of, I can say, more room to learn,
because we are there duringclass time as a class and also
we can be there during club timeas a club.
So we had more time compared toother class members, so we could
do a lot of research.

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Was there modernization or bullying in
Form 1?

Speaker 3 (35:52):
In Form 1, yes there was bullying.

Speaker 2 (35:54):
How was that?

Speaker 3 (35:55):
I think that one.
That's something you can'tavoid.
I was given five to buy bread.
You see, sometimes you alwayshave that time whereby you go
for church, and the church wasactually whereby sometimes you
go outside the school.
So sometimes someone can sendyou and it was just for fun, but

(36:16):
people will just have to usethat opportunity to bully you
and stuff.
So Form 1 is always rough foranybody.
I don't think there's somebodywho has ever what's your take on
bullying and moralization?
for me.
I really took it positivebecause it really hardens you up
in terms of like.
It also makes you to be sharpand also yeah, and also tell

(36:42):
someone that you really need toto know how to fight for your
rights and stuff.
But if you remain like thatforever, I think it will reach a
point whereby people have tofight for you.
Even in situations whereby youreally don't have to.
But I think as a boy it wasreally important for me to face
those kind of challenges duringthat time Because it kind of

(37:03):
posed me to various experienceswhich also made me like to face
those kind of challenges duringthat time.
Yeah, because it kind of posedme to the various experiences.

Speaker 2 (37:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
Which also made me like to face reality and that
this is how the world out hereis.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Yeah.
I think for me.
For me, I took it positivebecause I took it as
entertainment.
Sometimes you know that this is, this is a rite of passage,
kind of like.
You have to go through thisprocess.
It is part of high school likeyou have to be bullied.
People will come.
You will also experience.
Tell them do for you something.
I think, there is a time alsotry to bully someone, which is

(37:34):
not good but I was like when Iwas in form 3.
But now you know when you are aleader and you try to do
something, you feel like this isbullying.
But because I'm letting badexample yeah, but now I was
doing it in that angle.
Like you know, you're from one.
You need to understand theenvironment so don't get
surprised when you put in thiskind of pressure, but for me it

(37:57):
was more of entertainment.
It wasn't like I'm takingadvantage of someone, something.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
Yeah what did you do?

Speaker 3 (38:03):
no, I I think, uh, I didn't really.
It's quite a cocktail of thingswhich happens, and sometimes
you can even send someone waterlike go get for me water
downstairs, and that is it okay,yeah like you can send someone
to pick for you something likehe's not an employee, but you
have to use that opportunitybecause just a month wash all my

(38:25):
white shirts, yeah, yeah, andthey should be milky white, if I
don't know.
Yeah that now is the harsh wayof, yeah, of modernization, but
now there is that one way ofalso training someone to be a
good to be a good person likehelp me get water down there so
it's kind of helping, but buttelling someone to wash your

(38:48):
clothes, I think that's a harshway, but there are people who
used to do that.
Yeah, and sometimes they usedto.
They used to expose you to aproblem which, if you don't do
it, they'll expose you something.
So you, you, just you end upnot doing it.
So yeah, yeah.
Yeah, that's life.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
So in form two, you just decide to be serious.
Towards the end of your formtwo, what do you do different?
You drop the duties.
But what do you do different?
Academically, do you revisemore, do you spend more time
doing preps?

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, what I can say is that coming up with those
kind of science clubs and stuff,ah, that's when you started
these clubs.
Yeah, because now that onereally gave me more
opportunities to bring peopleclosely who are top performers
in our school.
Yeah.
To think of.
Actually, the main idea forscience club was to bring people

(39:42):
who we could do something to goand represent high schools our
high school during sciencecongress competitions yeah but
at some point that one reallymolded us to to become creative
and also to expand our knowledgebusiness yeah, do you think
these were your innovationjourney started?
I think it's part of thecocktail of things yeah, and now

(40:03):
?

Speaker 2 (40:03):
from this point, now even your grades started
improving.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
Yeah, because I think from then I started scoring B+,
something I was not reallyscoring so much.
Then I came to now top 10 whenI was in my form 3.
So all of the time I was in thetop 3 list.
Top 3 list I awarded duringclosing ceremonies, so at least
that really came as anothermotivation.

(40:29):
Being in top 10 is anotheropportunity for me to be able to
also win awards and stuff, so Iwas really introduced to a wide
range of things whereby youknow that there is always a
reward for hard work.
There is also opportunities fortaking leadership roles in
various dimensions yeah yeah, sobeing in those kind of

(40:52):
leadership, taking leadershippositions, also being among the
top performers in school yeahreally gave us a lot of
opportunities to yeah, it reallymade a life a bit favorable for
us in high school.
Yeah, yeah, made life a bitfavorable for us in high school.

Speaker 2 (41:06):
Yeah, and did you have you know someone like were
your school mixed or boys?
It was mixed, mixed Very nice,very important.
So in this mixed school, didyou have a?

Speaker 3 (41:23):
girlfriend.
You know, yeah, high schoolthere's always those kind of I
can say, during that time, ofcourse everybody has to belong
somewhere.
That's the point.
And in high school I thinkthere's that kind of pressure.
Yeah.
I can say boyfriend-girlfriendthing in high school.
It's always for fun.
Nothing serious.

(41:44):
People really don't know whatto do about it much, but it's
just always for like.
You can't be, a boy at this ageand at this level and you don't
have a girlfriend.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
But the point there was not like having a girlfriend
in the real sense, but justhaving someone people can say oh
he's your boyfriend, yeah, butand pen pal and you can write
each other letters yeah, therewas the I think there was
nothing serious boyfriend,girlfriend in high school.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
I think that is just.
I can just it's part of.

Speaker 2 (42:15):
It is just a lifestyle people being, but they
really don't know what to doabout it yeah, yeah ah nice.
Was it challenging or was it?
Yeah, taking away from thewhole thing of course.

Speaker 3 (42:25):
Of course it is challenging because you see now
all those kind of pressureshaving people.
Probably you have parents whoare well off, you can just be a
leader.
But sometimes you can say thatI have a girlfriend.
But now people come in,students who have parents who
are well off.
That kind of pressure willalways take away your girlfriend

(42:47):
in high school.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
But even out here, that happens a lot.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
Yes, you see, that's what I was saying, that in high
school, that's where you learn alot of things, not just in high
school, but throughout theacademic lifestyle.
A lot of things teach us a lotof lessons and that's where you
learn, like, like, this is whathappened in high school, this is
what happens in this level.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Probably, this is what will happen even after so I
really need to strategize,because it's kind of a system
yeah, was girlfriend taken awayfrom you by the, the well-off
students.

Speaker 3 (43:22):
I can't say the well-off, but I can just say
that in high school people willalways follow the flag.
Where it swings, that's wherethey go and stuff.
For me, I think it was swingingin my way during that time I
was a student leader andeverybody wants to be safe.
But it reaches a point wherebyyou just feel like this is just
strategic.

(43:42):
People are not here for alifetime thing, it's just
strategic for survival, and thatwas it.
You can just get friends whojust want to survive in that
environment.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
And when I think about it, especially when I was
in high school, there's a guywho actually I'm not sure of
exactly what transpired, butthey came from another school
and the rumors, let me say itwas not confirmed, but they were
girlfriend, boyfriend, but Idon't know if both of them had

(44:16):
HIV AIDS or HIV, I'm not sure.
But for sure the lady it was.
According to what we saw shehad the HIV Right and it was
shared that.
You know at that point, that'swhen actually you know the

(44:37):
education, counseling around HIVis rampant.
I don't know if your schoolused to do this, because
sometimes if you get agirlfriend, boyfriend, it's all
about things, it's a healthything, but it should be
Underrated in a way that it'smore Educative to those who are
engaged.
I don't know for you If youguys had that opportunity,
because I was in a mixed schoolbefore I moved to a boys school

(44:59):
and relationships Were reallythat serious.
People used to take themserious to an extent that a lot
of things used to happen.
And you see, now it can go evento an extreme where someone
contracts some you know and youcan even be victimized or
isolated from.
Because I didn't like what Isaw, how those two were treated,

(45:19):
either it is true or not.
I did not like how they weretreated because stigma actually
is more than a disease.
If you're stigmatized forsomething.
It's crazy.
Did these things happen?

Speaker 3 (45:31):
in Mufos.
What I can tell you is that yousee Mufos.
During that time it was bothboarding and day school.
So, there are people gettingexperience as day scholars.
There are people gettingdifferent experience as being in
?
Boarding.
But I think what was happeningin high school is that people

(45:51):
they could bring in peopleexpertise people in different,
in counseling people in various,who could talk to girls, who
could talk to boys, and advisethem accordingly.

Speaker 2 (46:01):
So I think these are some of the things which was
really reducing down the heat,because all these are
adolescents guys and you know alot is changing in their body
and you know there's feelings,there are, you know chemistry is
happening and it's something Ithink maybe we can also even
talk about it because now,coming to think of it, it's not

(46:22):
something you're really able tocontrol and it's a natural
process.
So all you need is educationaround it, sensitization around
it, and I think even for us asentrepreneurs and people in the
ecosystem, when we engage thenext generation, it's good.
Actually, we share this openlyand say it's okay, whatever is

(46:44):
happening, just don't messaround.
Or if you mess around, theseare the repercussions.
Just be aware, so that someoneis well aware.
So you finish your Form 4 andyou do your KCSE.
Yes, how was it?
Was it easy peasy, now that youare top 3?

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Well, I, okay, I can say it wasn't that really tough
yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:10):
You prepared for 3 years, yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:12):
I think KCPE.
We always know that KCPE Isalways a little bit easier, yeah
, than other exams.

Speaker 4 (47:20):
Oh, okay, so First timer to say that in high school
how you perform.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
You will always know that KCP will be 20% easier
depending on how you perform.
So if you perform poorly, justknow you'll increase with a very
small margin.
But if you're really a goodperformer, you will be able to
increase your performance andthat's really that's the kind of
gauge that we used.

(47:47):
So someone who is getting an Awill always try his own best
because KCPE.
He might get something betterif you put more effort.
But if you have a D, there's noKCPE.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
You won't do much better what is the reasoning
around this?

Speaker 3 (48:07):
I really don't know, but I just know probably these
final exams, people who aresetting these exams are always
for me, for my feelings, theyare always considerate of all
regions, people where they arecoming from, to make sure the
exam is not really going toaffect people who don't have
access to better.
I don't know.
So they try to.
I feel like the opposite istrue.

Speaker 2 (48:29):
I don't know, but they really try at some point.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
They try to make exam a bit friendly to everybody.
Yeah, so that's what I'm saying.
Like sometimes these finalexams, they are at some point a
bit easier.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
For the smart ones.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
So for me you see I used to get a B+, but I got an
A-.
It was actually yeah, we cansay you got an A because I
missed one point.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
I had a B+ of 73.
A strong B+.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
But you see, that means I've always been getting a
B+, but weak ones.
But I got a B+, a strong one,which I can say for me it was
kind of an A for me.
Were you aiming for A yesthat's what I was aiming for,
because I knew it was going tobe a bit easier, but it was.

(49:21):
It went.
It became a bit easier, but notwas it went, it became a bit
easier, but not for the gradeFor the math, which still yeah.
It was.
It was really.
You know it's better you get aweak A minus.
It's better you get a weak Bplus Than get a strong B plus.
Instead of getting a weak, aminus.
I don't know whether you getthat.

(49:41):
I hear you, yeah, so for me Ireally felt bad, because it was
just one mark away from A so Ireally felt like I should go for
a remarking or something, sothat at least I get to the A-.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
Do you know?
By the way, last year a lot ofparents complained how the exam
was marked.
I don't know if you saw that.

Speaker 3 (50:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
They felt like it's not fair.
And also, for some reason,people felt like people could
have performed.
No one said people could haveperformed poorly.
Everyone was saying they couldhave performed better.

Speaker 3 (50:22):
What is funny is that when people ask for a remark
and they get better grades, soyou know that raises a lot of
questions.

Speaker 2 (50:29):
Oh, there was a remark that happened, Like for
my yeah, for my sister it gotaround 350 something 370,
something that is.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
KCP, kcp.
Then after remark it got 380something.
The question comes in like sowhere's the problem?
Where should the results keepchanging?

Speaker 2 (50:47):
No one who gets lower marks after Remark.
I don't know, but we neverfiled for that we never, filed
for that.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
It's kind of around two things was done and new
results were released anddifferent people with different,
better marks, and that's whythe question now people keep
raising questions like what?
Would be the issue.
Yeah, yeah, where is the gap?

Speaker 2 (51:08):
does it mean people want to trust?
I mean the system has to betrusted in some way, because now
, if, if people can't trust whatactually gives you several,
yeah, it's really unfortunateyeah, because my sister has
never scored below 400.

Speaker 3 (51:21):
Oh, so when you get those kind of marks, then they
are changing.
Now again.
So you always feel likeprobably.
I still have a 400.
So maybe something is missingagain somewhere.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
Are your sisters taking CBC?

Speaker 3 (51:35):
No, I think my smaller sister is the last one.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
But no CBC, no CBC.
They are in high school rightnow.

Speaker 3 (51:43):
Right now they are in high school.
Yeah.
I actually joined high schoolthis year.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Unfortunately, I wanted to ask you about, now
that you have sisters orbrothers who are in CBC, the
comparison of the two educationsystems.

Speaker 3 (51:54):
Yeah, unfortunately our younger sister is the one
who kind of finished the CBCthing.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
So you'll be all eight for four encompassed
family, yeah so you get yourstrong b plus, which is a weak,
a minus for now I can say I gota week every night.

Speaker 3 (52:14):
So it was that's what I really I was really aiming
for.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
Yeah yeah, even you can consider yourself a material
, but it's not.
You know what.
What matters is that you knowwhat you learned.
You are more educated, you aremore learned and you are using
that to actually make a change.
That's the most important thingand Jab calls you to Rongo
University.

Speaker 3 (52:38):
Yeah, I had applied for more universities, but I
think probably they usually seewhat is closer to whatever you
choose.
So I was taken to RongoUniversity, which was now a
sub-sequence, a senior collegefor more universities.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
Was it still Computer Science for more universities?
No Zoology, why?

Speaker 3 (52:57):
Zoology.
I was called.
That's the course.
I was called to perform Zoology.
You're laughing the same way myfather was laughing.
See, the question there waswhen can we get a job for
zoology?

Speaker 2 (53:11):
No, wait a minute, what?

Speaker 3 (53:12):
is zoology, study of animals.

Speaker 2 (53:14):
The guys who man the zoo, or Animals.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
So I was going to study animals Probably work at a
zoo somewhere or maybe work ina museum.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
These guys for KWS, kenya Wildlife Services.
Yeah.
What did you select at Moi?

Speaker 3 (53:38):
A lot of fancy stuff.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
Like medicine.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
Skyrocket things, but you know, I wanted something to
do with engineering.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
Oh, electrical.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
Those kind of things which are for people with A's
and stuff.
Not weak A-minus, so yeah.
So those people were lenientenough to take me something
closer to where I wanted to go,but maybe they thought I didn't
like sciences.

Speaker 2 (54:06):
But that was really far.
I haven't moved away fromzoology, yes.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
Plus again, I think probably they checked my high
school stuff.
Nothing to do with the computerwas there.
Probably this guy was justbusiness history.
You didn't do physics, I didphysics.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
You did physics, I did physics by the way, no, no,
I did physics, you did chemistry.
I did chemistry, you did math.

Speaker 3 (54:28):
I did all those, I think maybe they checked
something else.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
The B plus.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
Physics, chemistry all those were A's, but now
probably something happens inEnglish oh, english was not, I
think.

Speaker 2 (54:41):
English is what probably needed to give me an a
minus.
No, I got, I think I got a cplus yeah, okay, x really I
actually performed I think ingeneral they don't check
language language much as longas it's above c plus okay for
job.
Maybe they might, because ifyou get oas and maybe get one B

(55:02):
or B+, of course it will neverbe an A.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
But why Zulogy?
You see, that's really raised alot of questions Also it
depends how people perform thatyear.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
Because if the cut-off point is this they have
taken enough for that quarter.
And then also where you arelocated.
You see, if you're in theGarisa and you get strong B+,
you might even do medicine InGarisa.
Yes, you do, because there aresome places where for sure you
know, this environment is harsh.

Speaker 3 (55:30):
Why should, but why can't they take us to Garisa to
do our course of choice?

Speaker 2 (55:37):
I'm not sure.
But you see, think of it thisway and it's good you're having
this conversation and maybe oneof these days I might roast
someone from now.
It's not called JAB, butthere's another organization
Cossips, yeah, cossips, you hearnow it's crazy man.
So one of the things, and Ididn't know this, even me I had
some weird question around why,why?

(55:59):
Why this around?
Why why why this?
But think of it, where you needevery religion to have a doctor
or an engineer or you know allthis even a zoology guy yeah, so
you need to divide thoseopportunities equally, so that
you don't have doctors comingoff from nyali or from ilikoni
or from kisauni yeah, so that'spresent a challenge.

(56:21):
That what if these guys are notwilling to relocate?
Alright.
Or if you send some of theseguys in some places, it will not
be where they're used to, right.
But if someone is from Manderaor Wajia, they're more familiar
with the problems in that region.
So if they become a doctor whenyou set up an hospital there,
the chances of them running thissuccessfully is high.

(56:43):
Yeah, you get that doctor whenyou set up an hospital there the
chances of them running thissuccessfully is high.
Do you get that?
I get it.
So it's a matter of that, and Ithink it was passed in the
Parliament or Constitution Evenway before there used to be a
quota system.
So, as much as you're takingyears for medicine, consider
marginalized communities, whichactually maybe someone attends

(57:04):
school wherever they can, ormaybe from midday and comparing
to someone who actually maybe isin the boarding school or in
the private school.
So there's some logic around itand I think it's supported by
science and the law of thecountry to ensure that it's all
balanced.
The same way you said you got325 but the scholarship was
offered for 400 guys.

(57:25):
But maybe even when these guyswere convinced they realized, oh
, this chief, with all thechallenges, he could manage 325.
But he has been getting 299.
You get those.
So if we give this guy anopportunity, there's some
potential.
And you see, maybe most of thetime they were right, 100%,
considering what you're doingright now.
So I think that's the basis ofthat, but I've just broken it

(57:48):
down.
But I'm sure there are evenlaws that support the quarter
system.
Yeah.
There's a policy investorschedules that come with it, so
you get Zuluch.
That was Jab right yeah AtRongo.
Rongo is in the border ofTanzania and Kenya or towards

(58:09):
the border.

Speaker 3 (58:10):
I think it's between Kisii and Migori.

Speaker 2 (58:14):
But that's all the way.
Yeah, I've never been to Rongo,I just hear people.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
The good thing is, it also took me closer to where we
stay.
So it wasn't that really bad.

Speaker 2 (58:28):
And when you got there, did you do zoology, maybe
at least for a year, or how didyou end up doing computer
science?

Speaker 3 (58:35):
I think during our first term our first semester we
had that kind of room.
Do you want to change?
Do you want to change?
Do you probably want to change acourse or something?
Yeah, and I really rushed veryfast to see where there is an
opportunity.
Yeah.
So for me, when I saw there wasopportunity, there was a
vacancy space for computerscience and having had that kind

(58:59):
of background, studied some fewcomputer packages during my gap
year period I really thoughtprobably this is something I can
scale with.
I can try to test it out yeahbecause it was not much into.
There is market out there yeahbut it was much of like it was
interesting.
I think the package thing wasreally interesting.
If this is what I'm coming toexpand here probably it could

(59:23):
lead something yeah yeah, butit's from through that now being
able to change the course andgetting to experience a lot of
things there.
that's when I also but what Ican tell you that one of the
things also which motivated meto change to computer science is
that still during the gap yearperiod, that's when I got linked
to swahili books.
That still during the Gapierperiod, that's when I got linked

(59:43):
to Swahili Box by Hatua.
Okay, because Hatua realizednow this student has passion in,
he has done packages, he'sinterested into tech stuff, why
can't we link him to a techcompany in Mombasa?
Yeah.
And that's why I got linked toSwahili Box.
Yes, yeah.
And then now the, the passionfor tech, also grew up again so

(01:00:08):
at this point swahili box had uhstarted.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
Yeah, which year was this?

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
in 2000 is it 20.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
I can't get it 2008 there I think 2010 there, when I
was almost finished finishinghigh school, yeah yeah, so, uh,
you joined a soil box.
What did you do at soil box?
Do you do coding, uhprogramming?

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
yes, yes, I, I did a bit of coding, but mostly on iot
, iot, iot.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
I was mostly into iot , ah, into hardware hardware and
I know for his computer scienceyou don't do so much other IoT.
I was mostly into IoT Hardwareand I know for computer science
you don't do so much until youdo semiconductor.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
Yeah, you see, but now the kind of IoT we were
doing there during that time,before I had much skills in
university, it was quite a plugand play thing.
It wasn't much in-depth interms of like building complex
IoT stuff.
So it was quite easy to graspwith the little information I

(01:01:12):
was getting, with the littleknowledge that I had.
But once I started doingcomputer science in college I
was able now to connect theoryand hardware and see how things
match.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
So were you doing this every time you were on
holiday or, after now, going toRongo.

Speaker 3 (01:01:29):
You spent four years doing computer science Every
time I was having a holiday fromthe university.
I went to Soilbox Even thoughstill during the when, still in
college, we could be able to getevents organized and we could
be invited.
So for me I had those kind ofopportunities while in
university.
Ah, interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
And that means now.
That's when we met.
Absolutely.
I think you had just graduatedor you were in your final years,
and you're a cohort of guys whoare doing an amazing, amazing
job in the ecosystem and in theworld.
If I remember about it, it'sjust that cold that I mean.
I'm so.
I'm so happy that you'resitting here today and for me, I

(01:02:10):
met you in 2017.
Um, so, at this point, I'massuming that maybe you are
almost completing, but how wasyour university life in Rongo?
Because I know Rongo is like aremote town.
I don't know remote place.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
Well, what I can tell you is that life in campus was,
I can say, for me it wasn'tthat really tough, because it
was just tough in its own wayBecause of the environment set
up, but because, you see, still,I had the scholarship From high
school to university and nowyou have help.

Speaker 2 (01:02:53):
Again, there was help .

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
You see, now, then you are living like a king.
So then, now, to make evenmatter better, is that I there's
an innovation I did while atSwahili Box.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
Which was paying?

Speaker 3 (01:03:06):
Not which was paying, which now I used as a
university project to representthe university in exhibitions
and stuff.
So the university was reallyinto the innovation.
In my first year in university.
I started now representingRongo University in various
exhibitions with innovation okayit was.
I think I built a, anagricultural, uh, a greenhouse

(01:03:31):
monitoring solution, iot based,yeah, greenhouse monitoring
solution and stuff yeah uh, eventhough after that I came and
advanced to a new technologywhich was kind of an automated
security system based on IoT.
But all these solutions I wasbuilding something to represent
the university.
I was not thinkingbusiness-wise.
This is something I can make abusiness with For me.

(01:03:54):
I just want to take thatadvantage of.
I will get opportunities, I'llget networks, because through
that I was even able to getpayment from the university to
build the innovation better sothat I can present something
tangible outside there, and alsoall those kind of facilitations
also adding up to a betterliving style in university.

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
So it was really helping yeah you didn't get
tempted to marry sometime in theuniversity, you can marry
temporarily for four years.
That is natural, that's alwaysthere.
You married in the first yearuntil fourth year.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
I can't say I'm married, but I can say you're
always engaged in university,yeah, like of course the
pressure starts still in highschool, so you already have
exposure to this kind ofenvironment Then when you go to
college now, things even getmore immense, because now that's
a free zone, a freestyle zone.

(01:04:50):
It's you against the world nowto see how you manage yourself
and stuff.
But all those opportunitiesreally contributed a lot in
terms of having a simplifiedenvironment whereby I really
don't have much stress when itcomes to what to eat.
Yeah, but it was quite intensein terms of how do I manage all

(01:05:15):
these things.
I have all these opportunitiesat hand.
They are good for me in thefuture.
Still, I have all these coursesI need to do.
I have all these projects forcourse related I need to do so.
I remember sometimes there's atime I almost missed an exam
because of I went for a projectsomewhere.
You see, so even though it wasrelated, it was best for the

(01:05:40):
university.
But at some point I realizedthat I was really not preparing
myself well for the exams.
So until a point where I feltlike I was almost going to kind
of taking another exam and stuff.
Supplementary yeah, so managingall these things was really
quite tough.
So, managing all these thingswas really quite tough.

(01:06:01):
Even though for me from thesecond year I realized
university is good to prepareyou theoretically and stuff.
But, whatever you do outside,their hands-on really counts,
Because that's what was payingme during that time.
It is the hands-on things thatI used to do which I really

(01:06:23):
never acquired it in high school.
You're not tempted to drop outof school, I know, probably if I
was a politician, maybe, why?

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Why politician?

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
Because I think probably the kind of
opportunities they get is waymore better.
But I never.
I was not really interestedinto politics.

Speaker 2 (01:06:38):
Yeah, Politician, like in school politician.

Speaker 3 (01:06:43):
Yeah, ah, politician like in school Politics.
Yeah, school politics,university politics For them.
I think they really don't wantto graduate, they really want to
stay In the school Until maybeyou get a better opportunity,
which is way ahead of university, because there's a lot of
opportunities I think this perdiem stuff Going to represent
university You're given 10k fortwo days and you're still in
high school university.

(01:07:04):
I think that really meant a lot.
If you're going for five days,it's almost 50k and stuff.
So you see, sometimes youreally feel like.
I need to focus more on theprojects now, because this is a
big thing than studies.
But at some point you realizethat this is just for some time
in university.
This is what it will mean for alifetime.

(01:07:25):
So I really find a way ofbalancing the two.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
So when you just focused, you reduced the
projects or you just balancedthe two.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
What I did is that I really never reduced in terms of
like I just reduced the numberof engagements I had.
Yeah.
Even though sometimes I couldjust let them choose someone
else for the exhibition.
Even though sometimes you findthat it was a push from the
universe that we need thisinnovation and this and that and

(01:08:01):
Ongkang.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Dennis is the only one who can deliver.

Speaker 3 (01:08:05):
I was among the few people who had presentable
projects.
I can call it presentableprojects.
Yeah, everybody had a softwarething that you can present,
which is really common, andstuff.
But when people see somethingmoving a hardware you see
hardware.
People are always attracted toa hardware.
So it was really selling much.
A hardware, you see hardware.
People are always attracted toa hardware, so it was really

(01:08:25):
selling much.
And even having to having inmind that it was also an
innovation on agriculture, itwas really taking me to a lot of
agriculture showgrounds andstuff.
So any agriculture relatedshowground.
They needed something relatedto agriculture and that's
probably what was available yeah, you know what you remind me

(01:08:46):
there was.

Speaker 2 (01:08:47):
This time I did a science congress project yeah a
colleague of mine who is amathematic genius in high school
from the northern part of ofthe country.
Actually, I met him the otherday after talking about him in
one of the podcasts.
Actually, I met him the otherday after talking about him in
one of the podcasts.
This guy was just a mathematicsgenius for some reason and I

(01:09:10):
convinced him for some.
You know he was my deskie, so Iconvinced him why we should be
doing this project, because theschool itself never participated
in Science Congress so we hadto prove the project really
deserves the attention of us,even getting facility to go to
the Science Congress and one ofthe judges actually became our
patron, our champion, to getthings done.

(01:09:32):
And we went to Idgerton I thinkit's called what nowadays Chuka
University, Used to be IdgertonConstituent College then, and
actually we impressed theScience Congress judges because
there were colleges there.
So they said, given howsophisticated this solution is,

(01:09:57):
you'll have an opportunity torepresent us at the showground.
And we got an invitation.
So my mathematics fella hearingthat will go and sleep in
another school that you know,rather than getting paid for a
nice hotel and stuff.
He was even before they closeup on a lot of convincing.

(01:10:22):
I wasn't that excited and youknow it was just reserved and
stuff.
So we said okay, I'll represent.
So I went there and it was a bittricky.
I don't know if there's fundingthat was given, because I'm
sure there's some partnership orform, but how you know, we used
to.
If you go to school, you eatthe food from that school

(01:10:46):
instead of you know, because yousee, now here you're
representing your school awayfrom where you stay and I'm sure
you pay activity fees thatshould take care of you, and the
school I was in didn't havethat much activities.
But the progression that we didwas really, really amazing,
because even where we got thestand was just next to Chuka,

(01:11:07):
with current Chuka University,which was Chuka Indian Student
College.
And at that point that's when Irealized it's crazy man like
you're in high school, you're inForm 3, you're here just next
to the university representingthe same audience.
And that's the first timeactually I realized age is just

(01:11:31):
a number somewhere.
If you put in work, even ifyou're five years, seven years,
ten years, you could go placesby what you built.
And guess what you had built?
Uh, an hardware, a diagnostichardware diagnosing four
diseases, but using digitalcircuits to diagnose.
and we had this board like theone, like okay, this is not a

(01:11:55):
board, but it looked almost likethis.
And then we had different bulbsmalaria, different bulbs,
malaria, cholera, I don't knowfour diseases, typhoid and
whatever.
And then we had similarsymptoms aligned.
So if the circuit connectedmaybe headache, diarrhea,

(01:12:15):
vomiting for sure it gave anindication on maybe malaria you
can see how simple it is.
But you see, if you have abreadboard or circuitry board,
you can diagnose all thediseases at a go and I think the
hardware is getting thereeventually.
But even so, the software isgetting there faster.
Look at your GPT.

(01:12:36):
You just ask some informationand then it can guide you.
But the point was not toreplace the doctors, just to
fast track the process.
So for me, by then I justwanted to go to Science Congress
to be honest.
And I found that something thatactually could make me win.
Until at that level, I could goto the showground and show it.
But now that we're talkingabout Science Congress, I think

(01:13:00):
there's a lot of innovation thatcould actually contribute.
The modern day innovation, uh,they just need more, you know,
more support, more guidance andpeople collaborating.
Because you have so manychemistry, you know, uh,
experiment.
We have so many biologyexperiments that you know, uh,

(01:13:21):
able minds present, but theyjust end up at the national
level.
That's it.
Yeah, I thought I should sharethat for my science congress?
Absolutely yeah.
And that project actually Itranslated in my second year,
invested in a project usingsoftware and I got a very good,
good grade, the best you couldget in the university.
Good, good trade, the best youcould get in the university.

Speaker 3 (01:13:41):
So, at the end of the day, did you leave the
university?
Because, for me, one of thechallenges I had was I never
wanted to get this kind ofinnovation that I was doing in
university to my fourth year.
I had to change it to adifferent innovation Because it
was going to be a universityproject, because you see, and
you cannot monetize it outside.

(01:14:03):
So, I decided to kill it at somepoint do something else as a
project now because that's thekind of strategy I did yeah, I
had two separate projects at theuniversity.

Speaker 2 (01:14:14):
It's just that I felt like, you know, I got my first
laptop second year, secondsemester, when you need to
deliver projects, so I needed todeliver it really quick when
you were in high school, incollege, in university.

Speaker 3 (01:14:28):
You've said that you'd marry me a colleague who
was left by his girlfriend to aguy who had a laptop.

Speaker 2 (01:14:35):
Yeah, that is so petty For me.
Actually it was because ofresource challenge and I know so
many guys who are in theuniversity and just you can only
afford maybe statutory fee,that's it.
And you wait just for help loanIf that doesn't come through

(01:14:56):
man your school, these peopleokay, maybe nowadays people are
not struggling that much, but Ibelieve there are people who
actually were still figuring outif my kid passes.
You know there are parents whoactually are afraid of their kid
passing to go to the universitybecause they don't know how,
what they're gonna tell them,how they're gonna take them
there.

(01:15:16):
They just believe somethingwill happen right.
So, and I think if we reallywant to change, you know
africa's at large we needactually to have a strategy like
how do we, under our brilliantmind, how do we support and I
think you can be a champion ofthis now that at least you have
seen when you shake presidentsand whether you are seated with

(01:15:39):
someone who shakes a president'shand like nothing is happening.
You have met some guys from theUN.
You have met some who is who inthe world, and we'll talk about
that a bit.
It needs a proper strategy andthen we'll be able to celebrate
and see the fruition of some ofthese innovations.
So it's very important to knowthat.

(01:16:00):
So, chief, you finish youruniversity.
So it's very important to knowthat.
So, chief, you finish youruniversity.
Present your final year project.
What was it about the one thatyou did present?

Speaker 3 (01:16:14):
for my final year project.
I've even forgotten what Ipresented, because I changed to
a software.
It was a voting system.
Yeah, tell me about it.
It was a voting system.

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
Tell me about it.
I also did the voting system.
Was it for circles?

Speaker 3 (01:16:31):
for IBC or for no university voting system.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (01:16:35):
Because, you see, even though that's something I
actually Before finalizing thatinnovation, it was supposed to
be tested in the university forthe election and there was quite
a lot of commotions, even fromstudent leaders.
They just told me if thatinnovation is going to be used,

(01:16:57):
as a voting system.
It will come for you.
And that's really what scaredme most, because you know when
students in college oruniversity tells you that kind
of a threat, it will happen.

Speaker 2 (01:17:09):
That's what will happen.
They can see it through.

Speaker 3 (01:17:11):
Yeah, because if you are waked up during the midnight
to go for a strike, you see byjust students and that happened.
What can happen if studentleaders won't give you that kind
of warning?
For me, I decided like no, thisis just for my academics it's

(01:17:32):
not to be implemented or donesomething.
Yeah, so it was basically avoting system based on USSD.
At the same time, we had thisdashboard where people could
stream live, real life streamsof volts, because now people are
fighting on transparency, sowhich uses, uses.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
Did you use?

Speaker 3 (01:17:52):
during the time I used africa's talking africa,
yes that's the only one which isavailable that's amazing.
Plus you see, having abackground in PHP during that
time basic PHP, vanilla, I thinkit made it made work easy for

(01:18:14):
me to just prototype and come upwith something, because
basically an API thing and beingable to make something people
could test and actually thevoting was done via sandbox.
It was like a test platformwhere people can just use a test
platform to access the US statebut because of its

(01:18:35):
functionality and people havingto also view votes in real time
when you already have a database.
Having to also view votes inreal time when you already have
a database with photos of thecandidates and everybody who is
voting.
It's anonymous, but stillpeople are able to see already
who is going to win or something.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
In real time.

Speaker 3 (01:18:57):
Yeah, but that's the kind of idea that I decided like
this can be a universityproject, even though I knew it's
almost 99.9% hard to beimplemented in universities no.

Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
I hear you, kaka, I hear you.
I went all the way.
I'll say, like you know, Ibriefly worked for IEBC when
they were taking theirbiometrics.
You know, right now the IEBCuses biometrics.
You know, right now the ibcuses biometric to verify the
photos.
So I was, I was part of theteam, the initial team that

(01:19:30):
actually was helping them withthe computing around that yeah,
for around three months.
Of course, you know they gotthe system I don't know from
france or something, but ofcourse it adds a lot of bugs.
Know from france or something,but of course it adds a lot of
bugs needed to be patched.
No, so I did that at scale forat least one constituency I
would say, um, and ideally I wassupposed to be a supervisor,

(01:19:54):
but when they they, I don't knowwhat they are called the guys
who add the constituency and thehead.
You know how IBC works is thatthey have like three, four
employees in every constituencythat are permanent employed.
So you'll find them there afterall, these other guys
temporarily who work for IBC,which is like graduates, maybe

(01:20:16):
from four levers, who workduring election or when they
want more workforce.
So when this head of thatconstituency realized what I'm
doing in schools computerscience and that's when they're
trying to do biometrics theypromoted me a bit to help them
with the patching so that theydon't keep going to Likoni Road

(01:20:37):
in Nairobi to get the work done.
And you know I got a goodpackage.
I was happy.
So this actually idea gave melike why the hell do you need
all these so many computers?
just to do a simple thing likeelection.
When you think about it, ifwe're really honest that we want

(01:20:58):
to implement elections, itshould be a two-hour affair and
you-hour affair, and you knowyour president, you know your,
your County.
I hope these guys will all come.
You know your governor, youknow all these.
I hope they will not come forme, but it should be a two-hour
affair, very fair, very open.
If there's any repeat or tie,you can do it again two hours

(01:21:20):
and you're good, as simple asthat and actually can be easier,
as your ssd can be, as sms canbe easy, as voice yeah, simple
such a way that if you can'tvote using your hands, you can
actually vote using your voicebut you see, now still, people

(01:21:40):
will always create stories likehow sure, sure are you?

Speaker 3 (01:21:43):
everybody has a feature phone.

Speaker 2 (01:21:46):
Regardless if they don't.
You can have centers where youcan access these resources.
But ideally, if we reallywanted it to work, it would work
.
It's just that we don't want itto work.
And when I was building thissystem for my fourth year
project, my supervisor told mebluntly that this is yes, it's

(01:22:07):
noble, it's good, I would loveto see it, but it won't fly.
The reason it won't fly isbecause, when you are building
any system, it's not because itcan be built, it is because can
it be used?
And I got it.
So he said if you're reallyambitious, build it for circles,

(01:22:27):
build it for, you know, maybeschool voting system, yani,
build it on a small scale.
So this is what I did.
So actually I built it forstill normal voting, but at
manageable scale.
Okay, and it was reallyimpressive.
So I hear you when you say theleaders at the school level also

(01:22:50):
are worried, because sometimespeople who become leaders don't
necessarily that everyone votedfor them.
Maybe they found their way out,maybe, you know, something
happened along the way, but Iwould say there's a gap there
that actually could be filled.
And now, even with AI, imagine,time is catching up with the

(01:23:13):
people's way of doing thingsvery fast.
Because now, if you add AI inthose three modules I mentioned,
it becomes much, much easierBecause there's voice
recognition, there's voice totext.
All these, when you combinethem, it's a receiver for
success absolutely yeah sothat's my experience with voting
system, but ideally, um thething that, uh, I would like I

(01:23:40):
would have to know did theseprojects have the purpose of
passing the exam that you built?

Speaker 3 (01:23:48):
of course it was accepted as a final year project
.
Yes, so I passed that so it did,it did its work which means
like uh, for the for the sake ofthe university examination and
passing the mark.
I think that one, it's it.
I fly with, I scored withflying colors and uh, that was.
But the challenge was I justdid it for the exam.

(01:24:11):
I took a lot of time buildingit and stuff.
Just showcase to supervisorsthat this is what I've done and
yeah, but it's really painfulwhen you make something that
can't be scaled.
So that's the only I can say isthere was the only painful,
painful part.
Probably.
I thought of maybe just puttingsomewhere open source now for

(01:24:34):
people to deal with it.
At least I can say I didsomething meaningful.

Speaker 2 (01:24:38):
So it's an open source project right now.

Speaker 3 (01:24:40):
I wanted to do it but I decided to put it private for
some reasons, but probably,maybe in the future I'll release
it open source.

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
It's among many projects I did in campus, but
yeah yeah, maybe open source,maybe you can contribute and see
what turns out from it.
Yeah, now you finish yourundergrad yes and you come to
Swahili box fully yeah, when was?
That when we met, or I'm notsure.

Speaker 3 (01:25:11):
Yeah around 2017 right come to.

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
Swahili Box fully.
That's when we met, I'm notsure Around 2017, right, I
graduated in 2018.

Speaker 3 (01:25:19):
Okay, you were at some few semesters.

Speaker 2 (01:25:20):
Yeah, I think we met.

Speaker 3 (01:25:22):
I met you probably when I'm almost.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
And you were outstanding, actually, remember
we met at Kamara Centre.
Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:25:30):
Where Japheth was.
Daniel, I think that whole bigteam you guys are making it.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
Actually most of you are made it.
I don't know some of you arethere, but majority of you are
not yeah, I think Swahili Boxhas that kind of a blessing.

Speaker 3 (01:25:48):
I think almost, if not 199% of of the people have
worked that road through soilbox and they really have a story
to tell does it still exist?
Soil box yes, because up todate for me, I I meet with my
mentors.
I still call them my mentorsright now because, yeah, uh, we
meet, we meet with them and andprobably it's more an advisory

(01:26:12):
partner for my business.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
Yeah, they need to be proactive to some extent and
revive their whole process.
Yeah, but that's a conversationthat could be had in different
quarters.

Speaker 3 (01:26:30):
So you come out here and now you start building
hardware seriously, seriously,for money yeah, um, you know,
sometimes it's you never knowwhere what will will sell out
there, so you just have to.
I started by first of allfreelancing, trying to build
solutions for people and stuff.

(01:26:50):
Yeah, yeah, but I realized thatwas not really going to, was
really not really my thing,because I don't want to be to be
doing different projects.
Every now and then, Every nowand then.

Speaker 2 (01:27:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:27:01):
I just wanted to build something, then scale
something, yeah, then grow withit, yeah, yeah.
I think that's where my passionwas mostly there.
Yeah.
Yeah, so, yeah.
So I've been really working onvarious projects, testing them
out and see what the market says.
Yeah.
Even though when starting up, Istarted making things without
that.
We call it the top-downapproach.

(01:27:22):
Yeah.
Which was really not working outat the end of the day.
Yeah, because you build asolution, then you go to look
for a market and find people whocan buy it and you get feedback
.
Don't build this thing now.
Do something else.
So you're really wasting a lotof time building a solution.
Then look for people to buyinto your idea and it's really

(01:27:43):
not working out.
So I have a lot of bankedprojects which I did top down
and, after realizing that thisis really not the way to do,
actually to build a project tobuild a business now I decided
to do a reverse way of doingthings now, first of all, listen
to the people sing fast andwhat's happening, then see what

(01:28:08):
can be done to bridge that gap,because now people already have
a problem and they really want asolution.
So if you present a solution,they'll be like yeah, of course,
this is what you'reexperiencing, I can buy into it
here.
Yeah.
And then, yeah, so I never hadthat kind of knowledge before.
I think I can say I acquired itthrough a lot of interaction, a

(01:28:29):
lot of feedback from people,and that's how I came to realize
like it's not always just aboutbuilding solutions, because you
say it.
Sometimes.
You can build solutions, butare people really willing to use
those solutions?
because, if there's no use forthe solution, then you're just
making something fancy fornothing yeah yeah, so that's why

(01:28:53):
I decided like there are somany solutions to be made, but
if people are not willing to buyinto it, yeah, then there's no
need to waste time, true?

Speaker 2 (01:29:01):
true, yeah.
So at what point did you nowbuild kuza?

Speaker 3 (01:29:07):
sorry, so kuza I didooza after two failed
projects failed business.
Number one failed businesses sothe first business was I called
it.
The company was called NupolaTechnologies, which I had built,
and it was mostly dealing withGSM based GSM based trucking

(01:29:31):
systems for cars.
I cannot term the solution, thebusiness, I cannot say the
project failed or the innovationfailed, but I can rather say
that how I launched the business.
I used wrong strategies.

Speaker 2 (01:29:49):
I used wrong strategies which.

Speaker 3 (01:29:50):
I used wrong strategies, which probably I can
say they are also baddecision-making processes which
really made me real, which Icame to realization in late,
late time, when I've alreadymade a very big mess.
Yeah, so that's what happenedwith the first business.
And I decided to also think ofhow can I?

(01:30:13):
Because I think I can say thefirst company which I made, the
kind of idea I did, was mostlycapital intensive and during
that time I really neededcapital to be able to build it
and during that time I wasreally desperate for money.
Like.
I'm just looking for anybodywho wants to put money here I

(01:30:36):
built the business.
But I really had very lessbackground in terms of investors
, money and equity and stuff.
Yeah, yeah, so there were quitea lot of challenges raising the
business.
Yeah, so there were quite a lotof challenges raising the
business, trying to break in,come cash positive and having in

(01:30:59):
mind that now, as anentrepreneur, that's the only
business you believe that canpay you and it's still not
paying.
You can't do any other businessbecause if you try to do
another business, you will oneof them will fail.
So it was really quite achallenging moment because I was
only now depending on who canput money in the business that

(01:31:23):
you can grow it, because I willonly survive in this business.
So it was quite a challengebecause now I decided, like
there is this investor, I'vealready given 45%, with probably
less than almost a million,just a million Kenya shillings
investment.
When someone came to me andsaid what is 45%?

(01:31:43):
What does it mean?

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
that is like 10,000 US dollars yes.

Speaker 3 (01:31:47):
So by that time you see you're just desperate for
money.
Then it was just a total mess.
And then you now get anotherinvestor who is willing to
invest in your business.
But you've already made a verybig mistake, giving out a huge
chunk to the business with verylittle investment, which
probably didn't do much.
Yeah, so I decided to do a lotof master classes, learning how

(01:32:11):
to deal with investors, what areall these kind of technologies
and stuff, how to best protectyour business and ensure that,
especially in raising money forthe business.
So there's quite a lot ofinformation.
I had to come back, learn andthen strategize well in the next
business, also working withpartners.
It was quite a challenge comeback, learn and then strategize
well in the next business.

(01:32:32):
Yeah, yeah, also working withpartners.
It was quite a challenge.
Yeah.
The people you give equity toand stuff the people you're
working with.
They were really not quitesharing the same vision.
Yeah.
And that's where really a bigproblem came in.
Yeah, when people now havedivided visions for the business
, yeah, someone is there forprofit, someone is there for

(01:32:56):
probably some other salary andstuff and that really kind of
killed the vision of thebusiness and I decided like I
think for now let me try to workalone and probably get someone
who is very close to the visionthat we are doing.
Yeah, that led to anotherbusiness.

Speaker 2 (01:33:16):
Wait a minute, but did you just pivot this one?
How did it work?
Did you consume a milliondollars?
No, a million.

Speaker 3 (01:33:24):
The business became bankrupt.
You see, now we are not able tooperate.
There are a lot of bills to bepaid and stuff.
So we decided like, let's goslow on this.
I think there's quite a lot ofthings you can do.
I'm running on debts right now.
The business is not doinganything, so it's better we I
think we go back and reflect,yeah, so Now, how did investors

(01:33:48):
end up losing almost a millionKenyan shillings?
You see, I can't say that wekilled the business.
Okay, what I can say is thatthe business has not been funded
well to scale.

Speaker 2 (01:34:00):
Okay, so it still exists up to today.

Speaker 3 (01:34:03):
It's still existing.
The only challenge is that nowit's quite hard to get another
investor right now.
Because already someone owns45% 45%, and the business is
still in its infancy stage.

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
So it's like you find someone in ICU but you want to
take one kid, yeah, or youalready have taken one kid,
exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:34:25):
So now tell me you, as an investor, you want to come
in to put 5 million.

Speaker 2 (01:34:29):
And someone has 45.
In exchange for probably maybethe 45 percent guy should give
maybe 10 or half, I don't knowyeah, of course that's something
that should happen, but nowit's quite a debatable thing and
stuff, because now theinvestors feel like.
You know I put in a millionshillings at this rate yeah, so
for us, we are feeling it more.

(01:34:49):
I don't know, political orsomething.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:34:53):
And that's why we started having a lot of people
dividing up and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:34:57):
So initially you're not alone.
I was with a team.

Speaker 3 (01:35:00):
Yeah, so when people start dropping down, I decided
like this is my innovation, thisis my idea.
Let me just take it slow.
Probably we can have a sittinganother time to discuss about it
and see how best we can take itout.
The innovation had a market.

Speaker 2 (01:35:16):
We had a lot of security companies, Of course,
GSM car tracking yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:35:20):
A lot of security companies were already coming on
board.
But now the challenge was therewas no funding to scale the
business.
Plus people want to come in tofund the business.
They were like shying away yeah.
I want to be the solo, probablyinvest or something yeah what
have you been able to do withwhatever funding you've received
and stuff?
yeah and there was really notmuch, and that raised a lot of

(01:35:43):
questions.
Yeah, so yeah, I think it'squite.
For me, it was quite a learningexperience, because all those
things happened because of lackof knowledge at some point.
Plus, also when you're justfresh from college and someone
is telling you I have a millionhere can you give me 50% of your
company, You're like by allmeans.
Tech.

(01:36:04):
Actually I can give you 60.
But the point is that you'rejust excited for the money.

Speaker 2 (01:36:09):
You really don't know how big this could lead to, and
how do you scale this?

Speaker 3 (01:36:15):
Yeah, so I think we were really missing a mark
somewhere, but because we werejust excited and all that kind
of stuff, we made quickdecisions which really I can say
were really not good at thattime.
Yeah, but it has been quite alearning curve understanding the
startup ecosystem.

Speaker 2 (01:36:32):
How do you raise funds?
How?

Speaker 3 (01:36:33):
do you raise funds?
How do you actually run abusiness?
First, yeah.
Then how do you raise funds?
Yeah, all those things havebeen quite a learning experience
.

Speaker 2 (01:36:43):
Okay, yeah, so you now start the second business.
Yes, what was it?

Speaker 3 (01:36:49):
The second business was a record-keeping solution
for small businesses.
It was called Takeizo App.

Speaker 2 (01:36:55):
That is a software Software.
The first one was hardwareHardware.

Speaker 3 (01:36:58):
Because I decided to do something which is less
funding and stuff.
Yeah, but now still the problemthat I didn't solve, that I
never had skills in choosing theright people to work with.

Speaker 2 (01:37:13):
You didn't learn from the first experience.

Speaker 3 (01:37:15):
Exactly what I wanted is that I was like, who is
willing to invest money so thatwe can become co-founders in
this business?
So people are willing to put100k, 100k, so that for me I can
say I just valued the softwareat 100k during that time.
I said, say I just valued thesoftware at 100k during that
time.
I said, okay, let's build abusiness, then we do that.
But before that there issomething, before bringing the

(01:37:38):
people together, I had appliedfor a grant from the government.

Speaker 2 (01:37:42):
It was called for the same project.

Speaker 3 (01:37:46):
It was called Belen Abiz.
The grant was 3.6 million.
Kenya shillings.
Kenya shillings when I qualifiedfor the grant.
When I applied for the grant, Iwas a solo entrepreneur, okay,
just ideating with a fancy namethat I have as a company which
I'm expecting to open, yeah.
But then it took a year.
You know, this government stuffsometimes takes time.

(01:38:08):
Yeah, government stuffsometimes takes time.
So after a year and a half,that's when they shortlisted
people and I was among the fewpeople who were shortlisted, for
I think it was 700 people,entrepreneurs Around 300 people
qualified for 3.6.
Others qualified for 900,000Kenya shillings.
So the challenge there is thatnow the government need to put

(01:38:32):
this money to a business, aregistered business.
But it was for the youth.
For you, the people I'm workingwith were not in the youth
bracket.
But this money needed to getinto the company.
I can't open another companynow.
I have a span of two weeks todeliver these documents and
stuff.
I told them, let's just putthem Now.
We created this business.
That's when the results cameout.
Span of two weeks to deliverthese documents and stuff.
I told them let's just put themwhen I now we created this
business.

(01:38:52):
That's when the results cameout after we've opened a company
okay with another team.
Yeah, so when they gave, when,when they decided like we need
to put this man to business, Idecided like I can't open a
separate company when the samebusiness which is being funded
is what I have already lookedfor a team.
Let them put this money here.
So when the money was put therewe had already had some few

(01:39:16):
experiences with the two teamsthere the business it was really
not scaling well.
We were really taking more timethere, plus people were feeling
like probably it's not going topay up very quickly.
So when the money came in,people were like you know what?
Why can't we just divide thismoney then?
Do something else.
Because I don't think if we putthis money in this business, it

(01:39:37):
may not scale and we will wastethe money.

Speaker 2 (01:39:39):
And I was like no, the money was supposed to be
divided, it was supposed to dothe business.

Speaker 3 (01:39:43):
The business Plus, yeah, plus.
Now you see it was supposed to,it was the government was like
we are giving this money toDenny's for you to do the
business.
But they didn't realize that Ihad to already bring people on
board who I never knew couldhave those kind of divided
intentions.

(01:40:03):
But what?

Speaker 4 (01:40:11):
happened is that now I had to bring people on board
now to tell us kind of conflictresolution Exactly.

Speaker 3 (01:40:15):
So, yeah, so that's really actually what really
happened and we decided that'snow, after solving all those
problems, I decided like so howwas it solved?

Speaker 2 (01:40:27):
Like you guys, did you divide it or did they
understand that this man is for?
They need to?

Speaker 3 (01:40:31):
do the business.
People had to quit Because yousee these people, most of them
they are employed in.
Government yeah stuff and itwas going to cause conflict of.
So what they told them is thatthis money was meant, because
the money was meant for me, butnow the money was supposed to be
put in a business account.

Speaker 2 (01:40:48):
Ah, which you didn't have.

Speaker 3 (01:40:52):
So because when they came for evaluation and stuff,
they're sitting with me, notanybody else how did you spend
the money?
It is me.
So it becomes a challenge whenI can't spend money because I
have people who can't sign,because they are above the.
No, we all need to sign, yousee.
So that kind of conflict reallymade it tough and I decided
like let me just so there was abit of conflict so we cannot

(01:41:16):
disclose here.
But I decided now let meventure into a different
business.

Speaker 2 (01:41:22):
Yeah, All together.

Speaker 3 (01:41:23):
All together.

Speaker 2 (01:41:24):
That's when Kooza came in Kooza came in, but were
you able to access that money?

Speaker 3 (01:41:29):
Yes, that's how now Kuza came in.

Speaker 2 (01:41:34):
So that was like the seed funding for Kuza.
Freeza.
Yeah, tell me, how did you comeup with Kuza?
Okay, the idea never came fromme it came from my co-founder.
Who is your co-founder?
She's Purity.

Speaker 3 (01:41:45):
Yeah, Purity Kekuo.
What happened is that we met inone of agricultural showground
and um when she's doing highschool or no.
After this, after I've alreadygraduated, this is now the time
that I'm having all thisbusiness and stuff yeah you see,
for me I've been having thisbackground with the community
and stuff, even though I neverhad that idea like okay, cold
storage can support thesecommunities.

(01:42:07):
But my co-founder has been nowworking because she's in the
hospitality industry.
She's always working with peoplein the fish value chain trying
to find all this kind of seafoodstuff and that's where she had
this background like how comesfish directly from farmers is
almost 50% less from what isavailable in the market.
And that's where she came tofind that there's really a gap

(01:42:29):
in terms of these.
People lack storage, most ofthem will stay off grid, they
depend on ice to preserve and ifthey're not able to get a
better market or people to buytheir catch, they will have to
just to sell to theircommunities at very throwy
prices and this really wasrobbing them a lot of revenue.
So she decided, like why can'twe do something?

(01:42:51):
And for me, I had a techbackground, she has a research
background and that's how wedecided, like I think we can do
something.

Speaker 2 (01:42:58):
That's how we decided to bring it up and at this
point now you have 3.6 or youknow some funding around, I
don't know how much I can sayyeah.
To put into this business sothat now you can start.
Do you start by building yourfirst freezer?
Do you start by looking for acustomer and then build it, or

(01:43:22):
do you build a few and thenstart demoing and showcasing?

Speaker 3 (01:43:28):
You know how the idea started.
The idea started like why can'twe support these communities?
We call storage solutions.
So what we decided is can weget a fridge, a freezer
available?
We just it was like an idea ofselling.

Speaker 2 (01:43:43):
So even you were not selling these things.
Initially we were not evenproducing.

Speaker 3 (01:43:52):
That's the fact we are not producing.
We went off shelf, get aproduct, then work with the
community, but now we came torealize that we can't control
the prices coming from themarket yeah the prices were
going very up, especially forsolar related products.
Okay, and then we that's nowraised another question how can
we cut down the cost of thisproduct?
Because we can't tell theseclients that everyday prices are
going up.
Imported products the price arealways high.

(01:44:12):
Not flexible, yeah, plastic,they are very high yes and
that's why the idea of why can'twe do something, why can't we
make a local solution to solvethe local problems yeah I don't
have a background inrefrigeration.
I had a little background insolar energy, even though that's
things I had to start findingout how else I could get

(01:44:34):
background in that.
So we decided to collaboratewith a few people, people who
have experience in fabrication,and that's why we decided, like,
let's work with people who arein the boat industry who are
currently manufacturing boats.
They know the designs.
We can make cooler boxes or theyknow the designs.
We can make cooler boxes orfreezers from the designs.

(01:44:54):
We can mold them.
So that's how we made our firstproduct, tested with the market
, got a lot of feedback in termsof performance and everything,
because this is a manuallyproduced product.
So that's how we got our firstproduct on the fishing boat for
fishermen.
Yeah.

(01:45:14):
So I think the aspect of localmanufacturing reduced the cost
by almost 50 percent.
Wow, because I can say only 30percent of the raw materials
were imported yeah and thatreally motivated us.
I think we can go big and betterif we try to produce something
locally.

Speaker 2 (01:45:36):
And this is fascinating, man, because if you
think about it, even the aspectof locally producing the
material here cuts the cost tothat extent.
Then there's so much actuallythat can through repo effect
that includes hardware andconstruction that could really
mean that's so much actuallythat can through repo effect
that includes hardware andconstruction that could really
mean that if we give it moreattention it could actually

(01:45:56):
become affordable.
That's a side, yeah.
So you create your first freezer.
Who do you sell it to?
Or do you go to this fishcommunity and start showing them
the capability?

Speaker 3 (01:46:08):
So what we did first?
I think everything came fromthe research background.
Who are the people you wereworking with?
Because, before working withthe fishermen, we decided to
look at which people can wepartner with, and the first
people we looked into wereactually the beach management
units.
These are people governingfishermen.

(01:46:28):
All the fishermen have toreport to these beach management
units, which are also governingfishermen.
All the fishermen have toreport to these beach management
units, which are also known asBMUs.
So working with them made iteasy for us to access a lot of
fishermen.
There are about around 10 or 5to 10 BMUs here in Mombasa.
Thousands.
No, I can say within MombasaBMUsused, but one BMU can have

(01:46:52):
and raise what is BME beachmanagement units.
So this after Kenya fisheries,we have BMEs by the exactly,
yeah, so these are now peoplewere directly not working with
the small-scale fishermen mm-hmmyeah, so working with them.
I think the strategy there washow can we access the fisher

(01:47:13):
folks?
Once we accessed them, it waseasy for us now to show them
what we had discuss with themget the feedback and also see
how best can we break that coldstory challenge.
So that's how we got our firstpilot tested with the people

(01:47:33):
going deep sea fishing.
Yeah, but it has been a processof iteration and getting
feedback, trying to improve hereand there with their kind of
feedbacks.

Speaker 2 (01:47:42):
Yeah, wow, nice and uh, in this case you're talking
about just mombasa region, oreven up to Lamu, malindi, kisi,
kilifi, all the way down toNdiani Tanga, because all that
is like it's a way of form.
It has some fishes.

Speaker 3 (01:48:05):
Yeah, our focus was not just mainly on people who
are in the coastal fishingcommunities, but it was
basically for people who aredealing the coastal fishing
communities, but it wasbasically for people who are
dealing with fish.
So think about fish farmers,think about fish vendors okay
think about fish suppliers.
These are people who want tomove fish from remote places to
point b, still maintaining thequality.

(01:48:25):
So cold storage is key for them.
So these are the kind of peoplewe've been working with and the
coastal community really helpedus in testing this product and
improving it.
But after some time, when yourealize this product is
appealing to different marketsegments it's appealing for
people who want to supply fishand also vendors who have their

(01:48:47):
own vending shops distributed.

Speaker 2 (01:48:50):
Oh nice.

Speaker 3 (01:48:51):
So even to some extent you found it scalable of
course, because, because,because what I tell you is that
we, after starting telling ourstory about what you're doing
with the fishing communities, werealize tanzania and other
countries who are also havingthe same problem.
They're asking how?
How can you become yourdistributors?
But now, at that level wherebyyou're doing small scale

(01:49:14):
production, you still don't havebetter machinery to produce.
It becomes a challenge to takeup that deal.
Even though you can't tellpeople that we can't produce at
that scale right now, amazingman, and for you.

Speaker 2 (01:49:27):
Now the world is catching up with your innovation
and you're all over.
You're in India, yeah, you're.
In which other countries areyou going to demonstrate this
solution?

Speaker 3 (01:49:37):
Yeah, of course, all this is because of the
acceleration programs, I thinkone of the things which has
really boosted us as a startupin terms of visibility and, at
the same time, linking us topotential investors and funders,
is actually having linked toacceleration programs.
We have been to variousacceleration programs.

(01:49:57):
One is known as SolarXInternational Solar Alliance
which had kind of a projectknown as SolarX.
Challenge in India.
So through the accelerationprogram now we were able to
access potential partnership inIndia.
So through the accelerationprogram now we were able to
access potential partnership inIndia.
Then we had Ocean Hub Africa,who are currently supporting us,

(01:50:18):
and we've been able to accesspartners, people we can partner
with in South Africa.
So I think all these regionswe've been able to travel to is
because of the partners that wewere linked to, who are opening
doors to various areas ofscaling and probably either
through market linkage orthrough partnership, to scale

(01:50:39):
our production.

Speaker 2 (01:50:41):
And Chief.
The other day you met a fewleaders.
You met our president.
What was the take around yourinnovation?

Speaker 3 (01:50:50):
Well, it was.
I can say it was it directlywith the president.
But yeah, but the good.
The good thing is that, you see,um, our innovation has really
grown to.
It is because of the kind ofsupport you're getting from
different people yeah I can saya lot, of, a lot of leaders have
seen the potential in theinnovation, because even the

(01:51:13):
Mbele Nabi's, they are leaderswho saw this innovation and they
really also supported inlinking us to these big leaders
in the country.
And you see the country rightnow.
One of the big four agenda ismanufacturing.
And for us, trying to promotelocal manufacturing is one of
the pillars which they aremanufacturing, and for us,
trying to promote localmanufacturing is one of the
pillars which they are reallypushing, and this is something

(01:51:35):
that we really know that canreally create a lot of jobs and
also improve livelihoods forpeople here in Kenya.
So a lot of leaders are reallyinterested for this kind of a
solution which is creating thatkind of impact.
Yeah, were you in Algeria?

Speaker 2 (01:51:51):
I was in Algeria.
Yes, what was happening there?

Speaker 3 (01:51:54):
Algeria.
There was, we call it, it was asummit.
There was a summit in Algeriawhere we startups across Africa,
were invited to yeah, tonetwork with other startups and
also pitch to investors, becausethere was a lot of investors
who came across the continentand it was really a good

(01:52:17):
opportunity for us to alsoestablish potential networks
with the people we couldcollaborate in different
dimensions.
Plus, you see, a lot of leadersfrom different countries in
Africa were also present to hearwhat we are doing and this is
really creating a lot ofpotential partnership to scale.

Speaker 2 (01:52:41):
So have you gotten any investment so far from all
these engagements?

Speaker 3 (01:52:46):
Yeah, sure, I can't say that it is enough investment
that we've been looking at toscale, but it's an investment
which has really enabled us toachieve quite a huge impact so
far.

Speaker 2 (01:52:56):
And even test some of your modules, absolutely.
So any other places you've?

Speaker 3 (01:53:08):
visited so far.
You've visited so many placeswhich is really because for me,
I never knew that innovation cantake me to those kind of places
, but something really goodbecause I'm now.
I can say, when you go to adifferent country, especially
those which are developed, likeGermany, which I also travel to,

(01:53:29):
to you really get your mindopened up yeah the way you
perceive innovation, you realizethere's quite a lot of gaps
yeah it's quite something youcan do better yeah yeah, and
those kind of challengingenvironments, especially when
you get in your challenge, whenyou're in your challenge with
your idea and how best you canimprove it then I think that's

(01:53:53):
one of the things which wasreally great for this kind of
market linkage programs and forBerlin it was through SotHub.
Sothub linked us now to thiskind of market linkage program
which was really great.
And, as I'm saying, for me, oneof the things I realized, that
which is which has reallysupported our business, was

(01:54:15):
finding a place in the communitywhereby there are people who
are sharing this kind of visionand willing to work with you
that kind of journey.
Yeah, and that's why we reallyhave that confidence working
through with these incubation,why we really have that
confidence working through withthese incubation acceleration
hubs who are really sharing thatkind of vision.

Speaker 2 (01:54:35):
Nice, nice, nice.
So, Dennis, we are so proud ofwhat you're doing and it's great
, I'm sure even your siblingsnow at least they can see how
big bro Absolutely yeah, I thinkyeah.

Speaker 3 (01:54:51):
I'm happy that I've also become an inspiration for
many people, people who also,who have actually seen my
journey growing up in thestartup world.
They know how I struggled, likehow we started and they know
that now, even though in theirown small level of development
they are in, something can growto a big thing.

Speaker 2 (01:55:10):
Yeah, you made so many small level of development
they are in, something can growto a big thing.
Yeah, you made so many peoplebelieve, actually, and I know
you for one resilient guy, man,like every time I visited
Mombasa, you are buildingsomething always, and it was
always something new to someextent.
I think I've ever asked you,like what happened to the other
idea, you know that one, wepivoted one.

(01:55:30):
To some extent, I think I'veever asked you like what?
happened to the other idea.
Yeah, you know that one, uh, wepivoted.
Now we're in this one, but thisone, this is how it works.
That's what you're doing andit's amazing, man, to see you
put more, more effort in some ofthese uh, entrepreneurs, before
they they really, you know, getthat breakpoint moment is from

(01:55:52):
that resilience that they, theyestablish and you're one of
those guys, yeah, so what is thenext for kuzafreeza?
What should you expect?
Where can I, should we, when wego to any supermarket, can we
now buy it?
Maybe in europe, maybe inamerica?
Is it a brand that you arelooking for and want it to be
found in every other shelf whereyou can get it, however small

(01:56:14):
or big?

Speaker 3 (01:56:15):
yeah, the issue here is not about actually scaling to
other countries the scaling isa bigger picture, of course,
which is really positive, butthe issue here is that there is
still quite a huge potential.
Don't even go far in EastAfrica.
The issue here is in the nextfew years, we are seeing Kooza
Freeza becoming a facilitywhereby we're able to create

(01:56:38):
solutions, especially in thecold storage space, which is
like an enabler for people,because for us, we don't want to
keep building cold storagesolutions.
That's not the kind oflifestyle we want to be.
But, what we want to do is thatwe want to have solutions which
can attract different players inplace to create impact in their
own ways.
Like what I told you is thathaving a cold storage solution

(01:57:00):
which is bringing suppliers,people in the fish value chain
who are doing supply.
These are people who aretapping to an already existing
solution we have built and theyhave found a way of improving
their livelihoods through thatdirection.
So I think for us, we want toscale production and impact as
more lives as possible,especially in curbing

(01:57:22):
post-harvest losses.
Working with people in rightnow we are focusing people in
the fish value chain, but ourcold story solution is something
which has potential to scale toeven different market segments.
We have people in health, wehave people in dairy yeah, we
have people even in poultry whoneed this kind of solution.
So scaling this solution willcreate so much potential to

(01:57:43):
different people to findmeaningful use for the solution
and improve their livelihoods.

Speaker 2 (01:57:51):
Yeah, because that's what actually matters when it
comes to such a solution theimpact that actually that has.
Because if people can reallyimprove their livelihood, they
can afford education, they canafford basic needs, then you see
a ripple effect in an economy,socioeconomic growth in that
community and these I see itreally improving the way things

(01:58:17):
are.
But do you have plans to even,you know, explore value chain
Just to make sure that, yes, youcan actually preserve your fish
?
But if things go well, you getmaybe some investment and even
have where people you knowprocess the fish, package it

(01:58:38):
export or even, you know,distribute across the country?

Speaker 3 (01:58:43):
I think all those are potential areas of scale that
we're looking into right now.
They only right now.
The the next step that you'reseeing there is that there are
quite a huge number of peoplewho have yet to access cold
storage.
And scaling production andcoming up with a sustainable
business model which is relevantfor people in low income

(01:59:06):
communities, then I think thissolution will be able to reach
so many people in differentlevels.
So scaling production is ournext big thing.
How can we scale localmanufacturing, produce products
which can be now exported toneighboring countries and reach
as many people as possible?

Speaker 2 (01:59:27):
especially those in the fish value chain so amazing.
So something else that maybeI'm requesting my guests is to
talk to our audience, encouragethem, try to encourage them to
subscribe, follow us so that wecan grow.

(01:59:48):
As you know, I know we'll haveso many podcasts, especially in
different regions and also withyou, because you're also growing
and I'm sure, maybe two, threeyears from now we'll be able to
talk about other things yeahwhen we come back, maybe we'll
talk to more audience, we'll beable to reach more kangis out
there absolutely, so please feelfree.

Speaker 3 (02:00:07):
Yeah, sure, I think first of all for me is to thank
you for this kind of platform,because I know this for me is a
true story, which I've reallyshared and it's something which
has really I'm really alwayslike bowing to it because I know
where I've come from, then.
I know the process and I knowwhere I'm heading to.
Especially, knowing where I'mheading to is even the biggest

(02:00:27):
part, because this is what isalways a motivational factor.
So having heading to is eventhe biggest part, because this
is what is always a motivationalfactor.
So, having this kind ofopportunities, I always don't
take them for granted because,this is areas I've always been
leveraging on yeah to take um myskills, my business, the next
level.
Yeah, I think for me, what I cantell the people probably

(02:00:48):
watching is thatentrepreneurship is not for the
faint heart.
Exactly, and it's.
It's something.
If you, if you have passion indoing something and if you
really have that kind of bigvision, that's the only thing
which can really always wake youup even at midnight because you
know that there is somethingwhich I've not yet achieved.

(02:01:10):
It always be a motivationalfactor.
And being in a position wherebyyou're willing to learn.
Don't always think that youalways have the best idea, but
always be ready to learn andalways think the top-down

(02:01:30):
approach.
Because for us, as I started myfirst business, which I can say
that they didn't do well, theapproach was different.
But when I decided to go backto the community, start with the
people, first learn what thechallenges are going through,
then now devise ways of creatinga solution for them.

(02:01:51):
Then they'll be willing to paybecause this solution will fit
their problems.
So all these are some thingsthat I've been able to learn and
there is no way better to reachaudiences, reach partners.
people will be able tounderstand a solution without
being in this kind of setup andthat's why I'm really grateful

(02:02:11):
for these opportunities.
One of the things I canactually tell you is that Africa
Stalking is one of the thingswhich has really been powering
our pay.
As you go, when customers pay,when customers make payments for
products, they need to getnotifications via SMS and stuff.
Actually, sms part is what hasbeen really been a powerful tool

(02:02:31):
in controlling payments andletting customers know what's
going on, and this is whatprobably I can tell people that
there's quite a lot of toolsthey can use.
There's quite a lot of peoplethey can leverage on, like you,
and get various ways to advancethe ideas and take them to the
market.

Speaker 2 (02:02:50):
Yes, Very nice.
You, you mean MK, or you meanAfrica Stalking For me right now
.

Speaker 3 (02:02:57):
I'm saying you because you, you've introduced
me to this.
But Africa Stalking, probably Iknew it.
I knew it in a different way.
I never knew that AfricaStalking could still bring us
together, but because when I metyou it was more.
I was mostly doing my own, uh,you know, in different kind of
projects yeah but the project Iwas doing is what it throws me

(02:03:18):
to like.
I think africa's talking hasapis which are more friendly to
kind of uh interact with, andthat's what has actually formed
the core basis of what we doright now.

Speaker 2 (02:03:32):
And I mean, you actually said something very
important, because you see, whenyou're growing business, what
matters is scale.
And I think what we shared backin the day in Cobra.
How many years now 2017, nowit's seven years.
Seven years ago.
When you're scaling, you reallyneed it because there's tooling,
tooling, there's all these.
Now the tech, uh, that actuallysupports that, so it comes in

(02:03:56):
handy.
Uh, and if you want to find meeasy for those who don't know,
please, if you see any eventthat is being hosted either by
africa's talking or any othercommunity and you see michael
kimathi as one of theparticipant, speaker or
whichever, whichever that ishappening, please, that's the
best place to meet me.
And whenever I get a chance Ishare as much as I can because

(02:04:18):
I'm passionate about you.
Know Africa as a solutionprovider as well as creating
opportunities that surpass time.
I believe all of us, thebiggest duty we have in Africa,
if you're in Africa, is to leaveAfrica better than you found it
.
Absolutely so.
Before I conclude, I would liketo share one African proverb

(02:04:43):
about fish, about fish, so.
Our proverb today says this oneis interesting If water was
enough, fish would not take bait.

Speaker 3 (02:05:05):
What does that really mean?

Speaker 2 (02:05:09):
Let me repeat so that we can all translate so if
water was enough, if water wasenough, fish will not take bait.
So, regardless of what ishappening in the world,
regardless of the circumstancesyou are in, you should not

(02:05:31):
settle, you should not say youknow, this is it, and you can
even take a fish in an ocean.
We all know ocean is endless,it is bigger than even landmass,
but still, if you give the fishthe bait, it will take.
But now in your case, you knowinvestors will always know that,

(02:05:55):
regardless of how you thinkyour business will scale, you'll
still take the bait offinvestment yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:06:07):
Just from this story I know right now you're more
smarter, but this could beactually you can learn from it,
just from this story.

Speaker 2 (02:06:11):
I know right now you are more smarter, but this, this
proverb could be actually youcan learn from it in different
perspectives.

Speaker 3 (02:06:15):
Please go ahead.
Yeah, I was saying.
I was saying like it doesn'tmean that all investors are good
all investors are bad.
Not all investors are bad.
Not all investors are good.
All investors come withdifferent.
I can say they all always havetheir own package.
So it's better for you to knowwhich investor aligns with you.

(02:06:39):
Exactly yes, yes, yes.

Speaker 2 (02:06:41):
So even the fish thinks the bait aligns with it.

Speaker 3 (02:06:46):
You might have a wrong bait.

Speaker 2 (02:06:48):
Then you take the wrong bait.
But of course, this is aproverb.
You can translate it accordingto your context and learn from
it.
So I would encourage you guyswho are watching us to give us
feedback, tell us how it was.
Did you learn something?
Also, subscribe, enablenotification bell on YouTube.

(02:07:09):
We're on YouTube as ImpactMasters Podcast.
If you search Impact MastersPodcast or Impact Masters Media,
you'll always find us there.
Also, if you search Africa'sTalking Retour Podcast, you'll
find it, and you'll see even ourprevious guests try to share
support and all that.
But also we exist in allpodcasts channels, such as

(02:07:32):
Google Podcasts, spotifyPodcasts, amazon Music Podcasts,
hihat, which is the biggestdigital radio in the world,
amongst your favorite podcastschannel.
And if you go to go onBuzzsprout and search Impact
Masters Podcasts, you can evendownload this podcast and listen

(02:07:54):
to it over time as you drive,as you exercise, because
sometimes listening to otherpeople's story Actually makes
you learn faster On what theydid and what they didn't do, and
even support, because maybe Iencourage people even to invest
more in Africa why not?
So, without further ado, this isMichael Kemathi, representing

(02:08:17):
Impact Masters Podcasts incollaboration with Africa's
Talking Podcasts, and actuallytoday I would like to give shout
out to our videographer,producer, site manager, who is
just behind the camera, oliverWare Akolo.
And, by the way, interestingaspect is that they went to

(02:08:39):
school together with our guesttoday and, yeah, even the same
scholarship program.
So it's really.
It's not a coincidence actually, if you think about it, because
when I knew you I didn't knowOliver, but we met Oliver on
other circumstances and now weare actually telling the you
know, shooting the stories,telling the stories, so shout

(02:09:00):
out.
So if you see the videos or theediting everything, he's the
guy behind the camera.
Shout out to him and untilfurther notice, thank you so
much, thank you, thank you.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#53 Impact Master Dennis Okangi: Fish, Freezers, and Funding A Tech Entrepreneur's Tale

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

All Episodes

#53 Impact Master Dennis Okangi: Fish, Freezers, and Funding A Tech Entrepreneur's Tale

Crime Junkie