April 3, 2025 • 25 mins
In this episode of Imperfect Marketing, I sit down with Colin Hirdman, the founder of Rainmaker, to uncover how professionals can use LinkedIn as a powerful revenue-generating tool. Colin shares his journey from entrepreneurship to building a business that automates LinkedIn best practices in an authentic and transparent way.
We discuss:
Rethinking LinkedIn for Business Growth
- Why LinkedIn is more than just a networking platform—it’s a revenue driver
- The importance of authenticity and relationship-building
- Why traditional sales tactics don’t work on LinkedIn
Building a Targeted LinkedIn Audience
- How to use LinkedIn Sales Navigator effectively
- A unique “event hack” to find engaged prospects
- Using key influencers as proxies to reach the right people
Activating Your LinkedIn Connections
- The step-by-step method to connecting with 25 people per day
- Why first-degree LinkedIn connections are more valuable than email lists
- The right way to send messages without coming off as salesy
Turning Engagement into Revenue
- How to nurture connections with a non-salesy approach
- Using LinkedIn live streams as a powerful marketing tool
- The secret to getting people to opt into your expertise
Key Takeaways for Marketers
- Shift from a sales mindset to an education-first approach
- Stop chasing leads—build relationships and let them come to you
- Why providing value is the most effective way to drive business
Whether you're a solopreneur, a sales leader, or a business owner looking to maximize LinkedIn’s potential, this episode is packed with actionable insights you can implement right away.
Are you ready to transform LinkedIn into your most valuable marketing tool? Tune in now to learn how to navigate this powerful platform the right way.
📌 Links & Resources:
🔗 Connect with Colin and learn more about Rainmaker: https://rainmakergrows.com
Website: https://www.rainmakergrows.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinhirdman/
🔗 Follow Kendra Corman for more marketing insights: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kendracorman/
Looking to leverage AI? Want better results? Want to think about what you want to leverage?
Check and see how I am using it for FREE on YouTube.
From "Holy cow, it can do that?" to "Wait, how does this work again?" – I've got all your AI curiosities covered. It's the perfect after-podcast snack for your tech-hungry brain.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Kendra Korman .
If you're a coach, consultantor marketer, you know marketing
is far from a perfect science,and that's why this show is
called Imperfect Marketing.
Join me and my guests as weexplore how to grow your
business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned
along the way.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of Imperfect Marketing.
(00:27):
I'm your host, Kendra Korman,and today I'm joined by Colin
who is the founder of Rainmaker,I believe and we're going to be
talking about LinkedIn,marketing and sales, and I'm a
big fan of LinkedIn, so I can'twait to get started.
Welcome.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Thank you, Kendra, for having me.
I'm really excited to sharewhat I know.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
All right.
So how did you get into this?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, so I've been an entrepreneur my whole life.
I started my first company aweek after I graduated from
college with a criminal justicedegree, which I never used.
I never took a business,accounting or marketing class in
college and really learnedentrepreneurship and business
from the school of hard knocks.
So that first company I had forabout a decade.
(01:12):
I sold that and then in 2007, Istarted Monkey Island Ventures
with two of my best friends.
We've all known each other sincewe were about five years old
and Monkey Island is named aftera park we used to play at when
we were kids, located in St Paulhere, and I'm in Minneapolis,
so right here in the Twin Cities.
So since 2007, we've launchedprobably 12 SaaS products.
(01:33):
We have a digital marketingcompany, a software development
company, have about 40 employeesand had been doing a lot of
kind of growth hacking, growthmarketing through cold email and
LinkedIn the last six, sevenyears and kind of February,
march-ish of 2024, I went to mybusiness partners and said you
know, I think I could build areal business off of the
(01:53):
LinkedIn kind of software andprocess that I've built out and
so launched Rainmaker early lastyear and have been growing it
ever since through really a lotof the strategies and tactics
that we'll talk about today.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Awesome.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhat is Rainmaker.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, so Rainmaker is , think about, almost like a
white glove SaaS, so my clientswork directly with me.
My software process kind of sitin the back end and I'm just
really simply automating some ofthe best practices within
LinkedIn, but doing it in a waythat's very authentic and we'll
use this kind of generalphilosophy that we'll get into.
But I've tried to make it verytransparent.
(02:32):
You know, everything I'm doingis happening within LinkedIn.
Pricing model is verytransparent.
It's up on the website.
There's two pricing plans.
There's no contract.
So I've just tried to make itgreat for anyone that's a
solopreneur, fractional, all theway up to my biggest client has
seven other salespeople on itand really we're all approaching
(02:52):
LinkedIn the same way and I'mreally excited to share some of
that with you today.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Great.
Well, thank you very much forsharing that, and we'll have
links to that website in theshow notes or description on
YouTube, depending on whereyou're listening or watching, so
be sure to check that out.
Now let's talk about leveragingLinkedIn for leads and sales.
Right, what should people bedoing?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, no, that's a great question.
I want to preface everythingwith just saying everything I'm
talking about today.
You and your audience can goand do all this manually if you
want.
You can go and implementeverything we're talking about
on the podcast literally as soonas they get done listening to
it, and I can also guaranteethat this strategies and tactics
work.
I am not helping my clientswith their LinkedIn profile.
(03:33):
I am also not helping them withorganic posts.
So that whole side of LinkedInwe won't be talking about any of
that today.
I want LinkedIn to be a revenuedriver for my company.
I like LinkedIn.
I'm not a huge social media guy, but I like LinkedIn.
I like that.
It's not toxic, it's aboutbusiness and I want to build
relationships, but I also wantto drive revenue.
I want to land customers andbuild my business through it.
(03:54):
So we're going to talk aboutkind of these three layers.
The first layer is thephilosophy that I adopt and that
I want my clients to adopt.
Then the second layer is aroundaudience and audience building,
and then that last layer aroundactivating that audience.
What are the campaigns andstrategies that we can actually
start to implement?
So I'll start with thephilosophy and there's kind of
(04:15):
three parts to that.
The first is being authenticand genuine on LinkedIn.
I think most people do a goodjob of that.
You need to do that.
You need to be authentic andgenuine to who you are and to
the brands that you represent.
That's table stakes, right?
I think everybody doesgenerally a pretty good job of
that.
The second thing is mindset.
You need to come to LinkedInwith an educational mindset,
because nobody wants to be soldon LinkedIn.
(04:35):
Okay, those of you out therethat are trying to book a
meeting right after you connectwith someone, trying to sell
people right away, it doesn'twork.
It turns people off, it ruinsthe LinkedIn ecosystem.
So stop doing that.
It doesn't work.
The second thing is anexperimentation mindset.
Right, you want to trydifferent tactics, different
features that LinkedIn allowsyou to use and see what works.
Stack those things, the thingsthat aren't working, you know,
(04:58):
table those and maybe try themagain at a later date.
But you want to have thatexperimentation mindset as well.
Then the last thing is reallyunderstanding the pains and
barriers your prospects aretrying to overcome, like, what
are their real pain points?
Then you know what is it thatthey want to be educated on,
right.
And then, finally, what is itthat you can teach?
What can they learn from you?
(05:18):
And so that's the basicphilosophy being authentic and
genuine, have an education andexperimentation mindset and then
figuring out what is it thatyour audience can learn from you
?
What can you teach?
So I'll stop there and see ifyou have any questions, but
that's the philosophy that I useand that I want my clients to
adopt.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Well, I think that that's so important.
So, number one, we'll go backto.
You talked about authenticity,right?
I think that that is so, so, soimportant.
As you said, the majority ofpeople are doing that correctly,
I think, since the advent of AI, which should be making us more
efficient and effective atbeing authentic.
Unfortunately, I think somepeople are misusing that tool a
(05:58):
little bit and not being asauthentic as they can be.
So just a caution make sure,like, if you're leveraging AI,
like you're using it right andyou're giving it the information
that you should be giving it.
I personally, I mean, this showis called Imperfect Marketing
because marketing is part art,part science, so experimentation
is important and an educationmindset, I think, is so key
(06:19):
around almost any type ofcontent that you're creating.
So fantastic, I love that.
So what's next?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Okay.
So the layer underneath that isthen around audience.
Right, we need to starttargeting an audience.
I'm typically using SalesNavigator to do that.
Sales Navigator is the salestool that LinkedIn has.
It's around $100 a month.
I'd say.
About half my clients have it.
The other half don't those thatdon't have it.
I just use mine and build theaudiences from there.
(06:50):
The second thing is kind of acouple of growth hacks.
So one would be identifying anaudience through LinkedIn events
that maybe your directcompetitors are doing, or maybe
there's an industry organizationdoing a LinkedIn event around a
topic that your business solvesfor.
If you go and attend thoseevents, you can see everyone
else that's also attending theevent and you could actually
start to build out an audienceof people that are already
publicly raising their hand andsaying this is who I am and I'm
(07:12):
interested in this topic.
Right, so attending events puton by your direct competitors or
by an industry organizationthat's putting again the topic
is something that your businesssolves for.
The second would be using aperson as a proxy.
So there's a woman on LinkedIn.
She's got like 70,000 followersand she talks a lot about your
LinkedIn profile and organicposts and how to utilize that
(07:34):
side of LinkedIn and I reachedout to connect with her.
She connected back with me and,because her connections are
open, I can look at everyone.
That's a first connection toher, but as a second connection
to me, and I can actually startreaching out to specific people
or audiences that follow her,because I know they're most
likely following her becausethey want to better understand
how they can take advantage ofLinkedIn.
Well, they'd probably be a goodcandidate for Rainmaker as well
(07:56):
, right, and so using a personas a proxy so, but that's
generally how I'm buildingaudiences is through Sales
Navigator, but then also throughLinkedIn events or other people
as a proxy.
So I'll stop there and see ifyou have any questions around
like audience building.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So I've never heard that events tip before.
You're the first person toshare that with me and I do.
I follow a lot of people withLinkedIn tips, so that's, that's
fantastic.
I love it when there's stuffthat I haven't heard before and
I think you know again, yeah,and I, I will again.
You're going in with aneducation mindset, not a let's
message all her contacts and seeif we can, you know, sell
(08:33):
something to them, right?
So, um, it's about findingpeople with like interests, and
way back in the beginning of mybusiness, I I took a Sandler
sales training.
I don't know if you, if you'refamiliar with it, but one of the
things that they said is whatyou want to do is identify
somebody who has your dreamaudience, right, that's one of
the things that they said.
So they're they're probably nota competitor, right there.
(08:56):
I think he was talking to likean accountant at the time.
Well, maybe there's an estateplanning attorney that has your
dream audience, right, andthat's how you were going to
target and do partnerships andthings like that.
And this sounds a lot like thatand I think it's really
effective because, again, you'retargeting.
(09:16):
These people are alreadyinterested in the type of
content that she's creating, andusing that person as a proxy is
just a really great way to findyour niche right out of the
millions of people on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
That's exactly right.
Yeah, and the beautiful thingis, yeah, you can use the
filters within regular LinkedInsearch or within Sales Navigator
and really start to hone in onyour audience around geography,
industry, title, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Very cool.
All right, so the next one.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yep, the bottom layer is in activating the audience
right.
So we've adopted the philosophyof how we're gonna approach
people.
We've now identified somespecific audiences that we want
to start connecting with andbuilding relationship with.
So the very first thing youwant to do is start connecting
with the audience.
You want to start building outmore first connections.
So we will not be talking aboutin-mail at all today.
(10:09):
We will not be talking aboutsponsors or paid anything.
We want to build more firstconnections with our ICPs, our
ideal client profiles.
The cadence, then, that I use isreaching out to 25 people a day
, monday through Friday duringnormal working hours.
That's 125 people a week, 500people a month.
That stays under the weeklyLinkedIn limit.
So if you're going to in-personevents or going to a trade show
(10:30):
whatever you can still connectwith people organically as
you're meeting them.
We're not using a connectionmessage almost never.
We're almost always justreaching out to connect.
We're getting around a 20 to 25percent connection rate.
So if you're in the low teensto high single digits it's, it's
you probably need to refreshyour, your, your, your audience
(10:51):
and go after a new list.
If you're above 25 percent,then audience and go after a new
list.
If you're, you know, above 25%,then you're doing really,
really well.
So the connection rates aroundaround 20%.
If someone doesn't connectwithin 30 days, then we withdraw
or we rescind the invite andthat's just good hygiene.
So, again, everything we'retalking about you and everybody
listening you can go into yourLinkedIn profile and account
(11:13):
right now and start withdrawingthe invites that are over 30
days.
There'll be a three-week periodof time in which you can't
re-invite them, but after thatthree-week period of time is up,
you could re-invite them toconnect, and so the beauty of
that is kind of creating thesepools of people you could reach
back out to at a later date,because most people it's not
that they don't want to connectwith you.
A lot of times it's your alertgets pushed down, they don't see
(11:33):
it and then it just stays downthere and they will never
respond.
So it's just good hygiene toand LinkedIn wants to see you
doing that as well.
So that's kind of that baselayer is increasing the first
connections that you have, and Ithink people underestimate and
undervalue the value of aLinkedIn first degree connection
.
Because of some of thestrategies we'll talk about
(11:55):
today, you can interact withyour first connections in so
many different ways that canbring value to them that you
really can't do it any other way.
Like I would much rather have afirst degree connection to
someone on LinkedIn than theiremail address, right, if you
have their email address, youget to email them, that's it,
right.
You can't do some of thefeatures, the nurturing that you
(12:17):
can do on LinkedIn when you allyou know, if you're just
connected with them or you justhave their email, okay.
So there are times when we willuse a connection message.
That's, you know, will beinstances like maybe you're
going to a trade show or aconference and you have a list
of attendees and you want to,you know, put in some kind of a
message like hey, kendra, youknow, I see we're both going to
(12:37):
so-and-so conference, would loveto connect you, connect with
you here beforehand and, youknow, maybe connect at the
conference, right.
However, you might want to saythat.
Or, if it's post-conference,you might want to say hey,
kendra, sorry we weren't able toconnect at the conference, to
connect at the conference, butI'd love to connect with you
here on LinkedIn, right.
But you know, unless you have amessage that doesn't feel kind
(12:58):
of canned, connection rates willactually be lower than if you
just didn't even have aconnection message at all.
Well, that's connecting right,building out your first degree
connections.
I'll pause there really quickbefore I get into some
strategies then of how youactivate these first degree
connections.
But see if you had any thoughts.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Well, I'm excited to hear how you activate these
connections because, like in myworld, email lists are gold, so
I'm dying to hear how youactivate them in a way that
makes it more valuable thanemail.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, I'll tell you.
So one is like a messagecampaign, right?
So a lot of times we'll bolt ona message campaign to these new
first connections and that'slike a DM, right?
Virtually 100% of the peoplethat you message will see this
message, just as if you had sentthem an email.
That first message I'mimploring people do not sell
anything, don't even try andhelp.
Just thank them authenticallyfor the connection.
(13:47):
Okay, and based off of theaudience that you're building,
you can customize the things forconnecting to a specific
audience.
So, like you know, one of myclients is connecting with
people that run on EOS, theentrepreneurial operating system
, and he'll put a littleconnection message in there
saying oh, it's great to connectwith other people that use EOS.
Right, there you go, I've gottraction behind me.
(14:07):
I love it.
That's an example.
But that first message goes out.
Again, this is all happening onLinkedIn.
If they respond, it just showsup in your LinkedIn inbox and
now you can take thatconversation wherever you want
it to go.
If they don't respond, thenseven to 14 days later, you want
to send your next message.
That's where the value has be.
Some of my clients are asking areally great question and
(14:33):
they're getting a really niceresponse from their prospects.
Another might be there is anasset that they've built out and
they want to share it, or maybethere's a third party asset
that they want to share becausethey think would be of high
value to these prospects.
Maybe, you want to invite themto participate in a LinkedIn
poll.
Maybe you want to invite themto an event.
Maybe it's an in-person event,maybe it's a LinkedIn live
stream, right?
(15:06):
Maybe you want to invite themto an event.
Maybe it's an in-person event,maybe it's a LinkedIn live
stream, right?
There's all of these differentways where you might create an
asset for a specific audiencethat is in a certain industry or
title that you've beenconnecting to over the last X
amount of years, and you canjust send out a discreet, you
know, one-off message whereyou're sharing this asset right?
(15:27):
And you're wanting to get somekind of a reply.
Maybe it's, you know, on yourlives, on your website, maybe
it's a LinkedIn article, maybeit's some kind of a post you've
done to your personal profile oron the company page on LinkedIn
, et cetera.
But again, it's like to talkabout that philosophy.
What are the pains and barriersthat prospects are trying to
overcome?
How can you help them with that?
Through the content, throughthe assets that you're building
(15:49):
out?
Ok, so we've talked aboutbuilding out your first degree
network.
Again, I'm not opposed to emailas well, like that's.
One of the benefits of gettingthese first degree connections
is you can also get emailaddresses from a lot of these
people.
Once you're connected to them,then it's around sending you
know direct messages throughlike a drip campaign or one-off.
My favorite, possibly B2Bmarketing tactic that I've ever
(16:11):
come across are LinkedIn livestreams, and LinkedIn live
streams are wonderful becausethe first thing you want to do
is identify an audience and atopic that you think they care
about.
Then you want to build out theLinkedIn event on LinkedIn as a
LinkedIn live stream and thenwhat you want to do is you want
to start inviting those yourfirst connections to the event
(16:36):
and you use the LinkedIn eventinvite function.
Okay, it's a discrete functionin LinkedIn that shows up as an
alert, so it's not coming in asa direct message.
It's a wonderful soft touch andyou don't.
It's almost impossible to burnout your audience, even if
you're sending this doing thesame topic to the same audience
like once a month.
There's no reason why youcouldn't keep inviting that same
(16:57):
audience once a month to thesame topic, because people are
some people aren't going to seeit.
Some people aren't going to beable to make it when you do it.
I've had people register forlike three or four of the exact
same event in a row because theyweren't able to make previous
sessions, right.
So it's a great also indicator.
If you're not getting anyone toattend the event, then you know
(17:18):
your topic or your audience, orboth are off.
So it's a great way of reallystarting to hone in on what your
audience really cares about.
Then you can also promote theseLinkedIn live streams anywhere.
Everyone's logged into theirLinkedIn account almost all the
time.
So regardless of whether thatlink is somewhere within
LinkedIn through a LinkedIngroup or your posts or your
company page, or as an organicpost, or maybe that you're
(17:42):
sending it through an emailcampaign right, and you're
inviting people to the eventthrough an email campaign, maybe
it's up on your website.
When people click that link,they're already logged into
LinkedIn.
They just get to the event pageand then they just get to
decide do I click attend or not?
Then you actually put on thelive stream.
You have to use a third partyproduct in which to do it,
because you can't do it withinLinkedIn.
I use StreamYard and there'sother products you know like
(18:04):
Riverside and you know RestreamStreamYard and you host the
event.
But for me, the magic is reallyafter the event is over, and
I'll explain it like this.
Number one when people clickthe attend button, they're
opting into you.
Now, okay, they are taking anaction that's opting into you,
which is, in their mind, sayingI trust this person enough or
(18:26):
this company enough that I'mgoing to press the attend button
.
They're putting on a topic thatI'm interested in, that I care
about, and I see them enough asa thought leader that I'm going
to take this action.
Now that they've opted into you, I think it's changed not only
the relationship, but it's evenkind of changed things mentally,
where you're not just sellingthem.
They've opted into you to learnfrom you, and that's where that
(18:47):
teaching matters so much.
And of course, you want to beteaching things that on the back
end, of course, you can sellthem right, so it doesn't need
to be a sales pitch.
But what I'm saying is I'm notteaching people how to bake.
I'm teaching people how to useLinkedIn right, because I know
that they could potentially buyRainmaker down the line.
So but the magic is that whenthe event is over, I follow up
(19:08):
with all the attendees with amessage okay, and the message
will say hey, kendra, thanksagain for registering for the
LinkedIn live stream that Ihosted.
Here's a link to the recording.
Okay, the recording lives onthe event page, the live stream
page, forever, and thenunderneath it I'll say If you
ever want to chat LinkedInstrategy, feel free to grab some
time convenient for you here.
And then I give my Calendlylink.
(19:29):
Okay, for any B2B, gettingthose meetings is absolutely
critical to the lifeline of yourbusiness, right?
You have to have those meetings, and so what these LinkedIn
live streams are allowing you todo is to get people to opt into
you.
You're able to follow up with amessage.
Like I said, you're able togive a calendly meeting invite
link in a way that doesn't feelsalesy, it doesn't feel spammy,
(19:51):
it's just a natural next stepthat people would take after
they started to learn from you.
And these LinkedIn live streamshave this long tail effect where
a lot of times people willclick the alert of you inviting
them to the event, but theevents already happened and you
they'll end up done justwatching the recording that
that's on the event page.
So I did one a week ago, tuesdayof last week, and it was a 30
(20:15):
minute live stream and within 36hours I had over a thousand
minutes watched on the livestream, and it's because I'm
educating this audience on howto use LinkedIn Right.
I'm sharing what I know, justlike I'm doing on the podcast
with you, and so that's thebeauty, I think, of not only
LinkedIn live streams but justLinkedIn in general and the ways
that we've been talking aboutit is it allows you to really
(20:37):
build relationship with yourprospects.
Share what you know, becausewe're all experts in our areas
of industry and business.
So share what you know.
Don't sell and then figure outthese different ways that you
can insert your calendars tokind of take things to the next
level where you can actuallybook meetings.
And if you think abouteverything we've talked about,
none of this has anything to dowith organic posts.
(20:58):
It's all about honing in onyour ICPs.
It's all about providing valueand it's all about getting them
to move them through the funnelinto actually having
conversation.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Okay, so first off, I just I love your philosophy on
this whole thing.
So educating, buildingrelationships and then getting
them to a discovery call wherethey can make a decision right,
we're adding value, so nobodyloses.
This isn't like it's sellingbut not selling, and I think a
(21:29):
lot of business owners,especially in the B2B space, a
lot of times they struggle withselling and they think sales is
a four letter word and not whenyou do it right, you know,
because marketing is all aboutrelationships and when you're
building these relationshipshere like this, that's just,
(21:51):
it's so, it's so powerful.
So I love this, I love yourtips, I love your insights and
all the information you shared.
If you want to learn more,definitely check out his
information and Rainmaker in theshow notes and video
description down below, becauseI think that there's just so
(22:11):
much more to get to.
Before I let you go, though, Ido need to ask you the question
that I ask all of my guests, andthat is this show's called
Imperfect Marketing.
Marketing is anything but aperfect science.
What has been your biggestmarketing lesson learned?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I think it is getting out of the sales mindset and
getting into the teachingmindset.
So you know, I've been.
I've sat in the sales seatsince I was 22 years old.
I know what it feels like to asa founder or a sales or
marketer like you want to closebusiness, you want to grow
business, you want to generaterevenue.
It's like emotional attachmentto just trying to get the person
(22:48):
on the other end to buy fromyou.
We got to emotionally distanceourselves from that and just
remember these marketingprinciples of like.
I think it's what seven or 11touches before somebody starts
to feel real comfortable withyou and all that.
Linkedin is the perfectopportunity for you to do that
in all the ways that we'vetalked about and more.
And so I think for me, nothingis more concrete in my mind than
(23:10):
using that educational mindsetand get out of feeling that
pressure of selling and get intothe mindset of educating.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And I think that there's again so much value
there in providing value.
I can't reiterate it enough asto how important that is for
people as they continue, as theycontinue their journey in their
business.
And all right, let me ask youone, one last question here,
(23:37):
because it just came to mind,because I think one of the
biggest pushbacks I get frompeople is, if I share everything
, then they're just going to gooff and do it themselves, and
and my thought is is well, thosepeople aren't going to buy from
you anyway, whether you shareit or not.
But what are your?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
thoughts.
Do not let the fear of sharingever stop you.
Don't let it stop you becauseyou're worried people are going
to take it.
Go do it themselves.
Don't let it stop you if youthink one of your competitors
are going to try and copy youlike you have to share the
uniqueness and the value thatyou provide and I guarantee the
vast majority of people.
If it's a real pain point, theydon't have the time to go do it
(24:17):
.
They don't have the time or theability to do it in the way
that you do it, and if thepain's big enough, they will
hire you.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Well, thank you again so much for joining me.
This episode has been packedwith actionable tips and
information which I love and Ilove to share with you all,
watching and listening.
If you learn something today,it would really help me out if
you would rate and subscribewherever you're listening or
watching.
Until next time, have a greatrest of your day.
Hi, I'm Kendra Korman .
If you're a coach, consultantor marketer, you know marketing
is far from a perfect science,and that's why this show is
called Imperfect Marketing.
Join me and my guests as weexplore how to grow your
business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned
along the way.
Hello and welcome to anotherepisode of Imperfect Marketing.
(00:27):
I'm your host, Kendra Korman,and today I'm joined by Colin
who is the founder of Rainmaker,I believe and we're going to be
talking about LinkedIn,marketing and sales, and I'm a
big fan of LinkedIn, so I can'twait to get started.
Welcome.
Thank you so much for joiningme today.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Thank you, Kendra, for having me.
I'm really excited to sharewhat I know.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
All right.
So how did you get into this?
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Yeah, so I've been an entrepreneur my whole life.
I started my first company aweek after I graduated from
college with a criminal justicedegree, which I never used.
I never took a business,accounting or marketing class in
college and really learnedentrepreneurship and business
from the school of hard knocks.
So that first company I had forabout a decade.
(01:12):
I sold that and then in 2007, Istarted Monkey Island Ventures
with two of my best friends.
We've all known each other sincewe were about five years old
and Monkey Island is named aftera park we used to play at when
we were kids, located in St Paulhere, and I'm in Minneapolis,
so right here in the Twin Cities.
So since 2007, we've launchedprobably 12 SaaS products.
(01:33):
We have a digital marketingcompany, a software development
company, have about 40 employeesand had been doing a lot of
kind of growth hacking, growthmarketing through cold email and
LinkedIn the last six, sevenyears and kind of February,
march-ish of 2024, I went to mybusiness partners and said you
know, I think I could build areal business off of the
(01:53):
LinkedIn kind of software andprocess that I've built out and
so launched Rainmaker early lastyear and have been growing it
ever since through really a lotof the strategies and tactics
that we'll talk about today.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
Awesome.
So tell me a little bit aboutwhat is Rainmaker.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Yeah, so Rainmaker is , think about, almost like a
white glove SaaS, so my clientswork directly with me.
My software process kind of sitin the back end and I'm just
really simply automating some ofthe best practices within
LinkedIn, but doing it in a waythat's very authentic and we'll
use this kind of generalphilosophy that we'll get into.
But I've tried to make it verytransparent.
(02:32):
You know, everything I'm doingis happening within LinkedIn.
Pricing model is verytransparent.
It's up on the website.
There's two pricing plans.
There's no contract.
So I've just tried to make itgreat for anyone that's a
solopreneur, fractional, all theway up to my biggest client has
seven other salespeople on itand really we're all approaching
(02:52):
LinkedIn the same way and I'mreally excited to share some of
that with you today.
Speaker 1 (02:55):
Great.
Well, thank you very much forsharing that, and we'll have
links to that website in theshow notes or description on
YouTube, depending on whereyou're listening or watching, so
be sure to check that out.
Now let's talk about leveragingLinkedIn for leads and sales.
Right, what should people bedoing?
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, no, that's a great question.
I want to preface everythingwith just saying everything I'm
talking about today.
You and your audience can goand do all this manually if you
want.
You can go and implementeverything we're talking about
on the podcast literally as soonas they get done listening to
it, and I can also guaranteethat this strategies and tactics
work.
I am not helping my clientswith their LinkedIn profile.
(03:33):
I am also not helping them withorganic posts.
So that whole side of LinkedInwe won't be talking about any of
that today.
I want LinkedIn to be a revenuedriver for my company.
I like LinkedIn.
I'm not a huge social media guy, but I like LinkedIn.
I like that.
It's not toxic, it's aboutbusiness and I want to build
relationships, but I also wantto drive revenue.
I want to land customers andbuild my business through it.
(03:54):
So we're going to talk aboutkind of these three layers.
The first layer is thephilosophy that I adopt and that
I want my clients to adopt.
Then the second layer is aroundaudience and audience building,
and then that last layer aroundactivating that audience.
What are the campaigns andstrategies that we can actually
start to implement?
So I'll start with thephilosophy and there's kind of
(04:15):
three parts to that.
The first is being authenticand genuine on LinkedIn.
I think most people do a goodjob of that.
You need to do that.
You need to be authentic andgenuine to who you are and to
the brands that you represent.
That's table stakes, right?
I think everybody doesgenerally a pretty good job of
that.
The second thing is mindset.
You need to come to LinkedInwith an educational mindset,
because nobody wants to be soldon LinkedIn.
(04:35):
Okay, those of you out therethat are trying to book a
meeting right after you connectwith someone, trying to sell
people right away, it doesn'twork.
It turns people off, it ruinsthe LinkedIn ecosystem.
So stop doing that.
It doesn't work.
The second thing is anexperimentation mindset.
Right, you want to trydifferent tactics, different
features that LinkedIn allowsyou to use and see what works.
Stack those things, the thingsthat aren't working, you know,
(04:58):
table those and maybe try themagain at a later date.
But you want to have thatexperimentation mindset as well.
Then the last thing is reallyunderstanding the pains and
barriers your prospects aretrying to overcome, like, what
are their real pain points?
Then you know what is it thatthey want to be educated on,
right.
And then, finally, what is itthat you can teach?
What can they learn from you?
(05:18):
And so that's the basicphilosophy being authentic and
genuine, have an education andexperimentation mindset and then
figuring out what is it thatyour audience can learn from you
?
What can you teach?
So I'll stop there and see ifyou have any questions, but
that's the philosophy that I useand that I want my clients to
adopt.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Well, I think that that's so important.
So, number one, we'll go backto.
You talked about authenticity,right?
I think that that is so, so, soimportant.
As you said, the majority ofpeople are doing that correctly,
I think, since the advent of AI, which should be making us more
efficient and effective atbeing authentic.
Unfortunately, I think somepeople are misusing that tool a
(05:58):
little bit and not being asauthentic as they can be.
So just a caution make sure,like, if you're leveraging AI,
like you're using it right andyou're giving it the information
that you should be giving it.
I personally, I mean, this showis called Imperfect Marketing
because marketing is part art,part science, so experimentation
is important and an educationmindset, I think, is so key
(06:19):
around almost any type ofcontent that you're creating.
So fantastic, I love that.
So what's next?
Speaker 2 (06:27):
Okay.
So the layer underneath that isthen around audience.
Right, we need to starttargeting an audience.
I'm typically using SalesNavigator to do that.
Sales Navigator is the salestool that LinkedIn has.
It's around $100 a month.
I'd say.
About half my clients have it.
The other half don't those thatdon't have it.
I just use mine and build theaudiences from there.
(06:50):
The second thing is kind of acouple of growth hacks.
So one would be identifying anaudience through LinkedIn events
that maybe your directcompetitors are doing, or maybe
there's an industry organizationdoing a LinkedIn event around a
topic that your business solvesfor.
If you go and attend thoseevents, you can see everyone
else that's also attending theevent and you could actually
start to build out an audienceof people that are already
publicly raising their hand andsaying this is who I am and I'm
(07:12):
interested in this topic.
Right, so attending events puton by your direct competitors or
by an industry organizationthat's putting again the topic
is something that your businesssolves for.
The second would be using aperson as a proxy.
So there's a woman on LinkedIn.
She's got like 70,000 followersand she talks a lot about your
LinkedIn profile and organicposts and how to utilize that
(07:34):
side of LinkedIn and I reachedout to connect with her.
She connected back with me and,because her connections are
open, I can look at everyone.
That's a first connection toher, but as a second connection
to me, and I can actually startreaching out to specific people
or audiences that follow her,because I know they're most
likely following her becausethey want to better understand
how they can take advantage ofLinkedIn.
Well, they'd probably be a goodcandidate for Rainmaker as well
(07:56):
, right, and so using a personas a proxy so, but that's
generally how I'm buildingaudiences is through Sales
Navigator, but then also throughLinkedIn events or other people
as a proxy.
So I'll stop there and see ifyou have any questions around
like audience building.
Speaker 1 (08:10):
So I've never heard that events tip before.
You're the first person toshare that with me and I do.
I follow a lot of people withLinkedIn tips, so that's, that's
fantastic.
I love it when there's stuffthat I haven't heard before and
I think you know again, yeah,and I, I will again.
You're going in with aneducation mindset, not a let's
message all her contacts and seeif we can, you know, sell
(08:33):
something to them, right?
So, um, it's about findingpeople with like interests, and
way back in the beginning of mybusiness, I I took a Sandler
sales training.
I don't know if you, if you'refamiliar with it, but one of the
things that they said is whatyou want to do is identify
somebody who has your dreamaudience, right, that's one of
the things that they said.
So they're they're probably nota competitor, right there.
(08:56):
I think he was talking to likean accountant at the time.
Well, maybe there's an estateplanning attorney that has your
dream audience, right, andthat's how you were going to
target and do partnerships andthings like that.
And this sounds a lot like thatand I think it's really
effective because, again, you'retargeting.
(09:16):
These people are alreadyinterested in the type of
content that she's creating, andusing that person as a proxy is
just a really great way to findyour niche right out of the
millions of people on LinkedIn.
Speaker 2 (09:30):
That's exactly right.
Yeah, and the beautiful thingis, yeah, you can use the
filters within regular LinkedInsearch or within Sales Navigator
and really start to hone in onyour audience around geography,
industry, title, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (09:42):
Very cool.
All right, so the next one.
Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yep, the bottom layer is in activating the audience
right.
So we've adopted the philosophyof how we're gonna approach
people.
We've now identified somespecific audiences that we want
to start connecting with andbuilding relationship with.
So the very first thing youwant to do is start connecting
with the audience.
You want to start building outmore first connections.
So we will not be talking aboutin-mail at all today.
(10:09):
We will not be talking aboutsponsors or paid anything.
We want to build more firstconnections with our ICPs, our
ideal client profiles.
The cadence, then, that I use isreaching out to 25 people a day
, monday through Friday duringnormal working hours.
That's 125 people a week, 500people a month.
That stays under the weeklyLinkedIn limit.
So if you're going to in-personevents or going to a trade show
(10:30):
whatever you can still connectwith people organically as
you're meeting them.
We're not using a connectionmessage almost never.
We're almost always justreaching out to connect.
We're getting around a 20 to 25percent connection rate.
So if you're in the low teensto high single digits it's, it's
you probably need to refreshyour, your, your, your audience
(10:51):
and go after a new list.
If you're above 25 percent,then audience and go after a new
list.
If you're, you know, above 25%,then you're doing really,
really well.
So the connection rates aroundaround 20%.
If someone doesn't connectwithin 30 days, then we withdraw
or we rescind the invite andthat's just good hygiene.
So, again, everything we'retalking about you and everybody
listening you can go into yourLinkedIn profile and account
(11:13):
right now and start withdrawingthe invites that are over 30
days.
There'll be a three-week periodof time in which you can't
re-invite them, but after thatthree-week period of time is up,
you could re-invite them toconnect, and so the beauty of
that is kind of creating thesepools of people you could reach
back out to at a later date,because most people it's not
that they don't want to connectwith you.
A lot of times it's your alertgets pushed down, they don't see
(11:33):
it and then it just stays downthere and they will never
respond.
So it's just good hygiene toand LinkedIn wants to see you
doing that as well.
So that's kind of that baselayer is increasing the first
connections that you have, and Ithink people underestimate and
undervalue the value of aLinkedIn first degree connection
.
Because of some of thestrategies we'll talk about
(11:55):
today, you can interact withyour first connections in so
many different ways that canbring value to them that you
really can't do it any other way.
Like I would much rather have afirst degree connection to
someone on LinkedIn than theiremail address, right, if you
have their email address, youget to email them, that's it,
right.
You can't do some of thefeatures, the nurturing that you
(12:17):
can do on LinkedIn when you allyou know, if you're just
connected with them or you justhave their email, okay.
So there are times when we willuse a connection message.
That's, you know, will beinstances like maybe you're
going to a trade show or aconference and you have a list
of attendees and you want to,you know, put in some kind of a
message like hey, kendra, youknow, I see we're both going to
(12:37):
so-and-so conference, would loveto connect you, connect with
you here beforehand and, youknow, maybe connect at the
conference, right.
However, you might want to saythat.
Or, if it's post-conference,you might want to say hey,
kendra, sorry we weren't able toconnect at the conference, to
connect at the conference, butI'd love to connect with you
here on LinkedIn, right.
But you know, unless you have amessage that doesn't feel kind
(12:58):
of canned, connection rates willactually be lower than if you
just didn't even have aconnection message at all.
Well, that's connecting right,building out your first degree
connections.
I'll pause there really quickbefore I get into some
strategies then of how youactivate these first degree
connections.
But see if you had any thoughts.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Well, I'm excited to hear how you activate these
connections because, like in myworld, email lists are gold, so
I'm dying to hear how youactivate them in a way that
makes it more valuable thanemail.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, I'll tell you.
So one is like a messagecampaign, right?
So a lot of times we'll bolt ona message campaign to these new
first connections and that'slike a DM, right?
Virtually 100% of the peoplethat you message will see this
message, just as if you had sentthem an email.
That first message I'mimploring people do not sell
anything, don't even try andhelp.
Just thank them authenticallyfor the connection.
(13:47):
Okay, and based off of theaudience that you're building,
you can customize the things forconnecting to a specific
audience.
So, like you know, one of myclients is connecting with
people that run on EOS, theentrepreneurial operating system
, and he'll put a littleconnection message in there
saying oh, it's great to connectwith other people that use EOS.
Right, there you go, I've gottraction behind me.
(14:07):
I love it.
That's an example.
But that first message goes out.
Again, this is all happening onLinkedIn.
If they respond, it just showsup in your LinkedIn inbox and
now you can take thatconversation wherever you want
it to go.
If they don't respond, thenseven to 14 days later, you want
to send your next message.
That's where the value has be.
Some of my clients are asking areally great question and
(14:33):
they're getting a really niceresponse from their prospects.
Another might be there is anasset that they've built out and
they want to share it, or maybethere's a third party asset
that they want to share becausethey think would be of high
value to these prospects.
Maybe, you want to invite themto participate in a LinkedIn
poll.
Maybe you want to invite themto an event.
Maybe it's an in-person event,maybe it's a LinkedIn live
stream, right?
(15:06):
Maybe you want to invite themto an event.
Maybe it's an in-person event,maybe it's a LinkedIn live
stream, right?
There's all of these differentways where you might create an
asset for a specific audiencethat is in a certain industry or
title that you've beenconnecting to over the last X
amount of years, and you canjust send out a discreet, you
know, one-off message whereyou're sharing this asset right?
(15:27):
And you're wanting to get somekind of a reply.
Maybe it's, you know, on yourlives, on your website, maybe
it's a LinkedIn article, maybeit's some kind of a post you've
done to your personal profile oron the company page on LinkedIn
, et cetera.
But again, it's like to talkabout that philosophy.
What are the pains and barriersthat prospects are trying to
overcome?
How can you help them with that?
Through the content, throughthe assets that you're building
(15:49):
out?
Ok, so we've talked aboutbuilding out your first degree
network.
Again, I'm not opposed to emailas well, like that's.
One of the benefits of gettingthese first degree connections
is you can also get emailaddresses from a lot of these
people.
Once you're connected to them,then it's around sending you
know direct messages throughlike a drip campaign or one-off.
My favorite, possibly B2Bmarketing tactic that I've ever
(16:11):
come across are LinkedIn livestreams, and LinkedIn live
streams are wonderful becausethe first thing you want to do
is identify an audience and atopic that you think they care
about.
Then you want to build out theLinkedIn event on LinkedIn as a
LinkedIn live stream and thenwhat you want to do is you want
to start inviting those yourfirst connections to the event
(16:36):
and you use the LinkedIn eventinvite function.
Okay, it's a discrete functionin LinkedIn that shows up as an
alert, so it's not coming in asa direct message.
It's a wonderful soft touch andyou don't.
It's almost impossible to burnout your audience, even if
you're sending this doing thesame topic to the same audience
like once a month.
There's no reason why youcouldn't keep inviting that same
(16:57):
audience once a month to thesame topic, because people are
some people aren't going to seeit.
Some people aren't going to beable to make it when you do it.
I've had people register forlike three or four of the exact
same event in a row because theyweren't able to make previous
sessions, right.
So it's a great also indicator.
If you're not getting anyone toattend the event, then you know
(17:18):
your topic or your audience, orboth are off.
So it's a great way of reallystarting to hone in on what your
audience really cares about.
Then you can also promote theseLinkedIn live streams anywhere.
Everyone's logged into theirLinkedIn account almost all the
time.
So regardless of whether thatlink is somewhere within
LinkedIn through a LinkedIngroup or your posts or your
company page, or as an organicpost, or maybe that you're
(17:42):
sending it through an emailcampaign right, and you're
inviting people to the eventthrough an email campaign, maybe
it's up on your website.
When people click that link,they're already logged into
LinkedIn.
They just get to the event pageand then they just get to
decide do I click attend or not?
Then you actually put on thelive stream.
You have to use a third partyproduct in which to do it,
because you can't do it withinLinkedIn.
I use StreamYard and there'sother products you know like
(18:04):
Riverside and you know RestreamStreamYard and you host the
event.
But for me, the magic is reallyafter the event is over, and
I'll explain it like this.
Number one when people clickthe attend button, they're
opting into you.
Now, okay, they are taking anaction that's opting into you,
which is, in their mind, sayingI trust this person enough or
(18:26):
this company enough that I'mgoing to press the attend button
.
They're putting on a topic thatI'm interested in, that I care
about, and I see them enough asa thought leader that I'm going
to take this action.
Now that they've opted into you, I think it's changed not only
the relationship, but it's evenkind of changed things mentally,
where you're not just sellingthem.
They've opted into you to learnfrom you, and that's where that
(18:47):
teaching matters so much.
And of course, you want to beteaching things that on the back
end, of course, you can sellthem right, so it doesn't need
to be a sales pitch.
But what I'm saying is I'm notteaching people how to bake.
I'm teaching people how to useLinkedIn right, because I know
that they could potentially buyRainmaker down the line.
So but the magic is that whenthe event is over, I follow up
(19:08):
with all the attendees with amessage okay, and the message
will say hey, kendra, thanksagain for registering for the
LinkedIn live stream that Ihosted.
Here's a link to the recording.
Okay, the recording lives onthe event page, the live stream
page, forever, and thenunderneath it I'll say If you
ever want to chat LinkedInstrategy, feel free to grab some
time convenient for you here.
And then I give my Calendlylink.
(19:29):
Okay, for any B2B, gettingthose meetings is absolutely
critical to the lifeline of yourbusiness, right?
You have to have those meetings, and so what these LinkedIn
live streams are allowing you todo is to get people to opt into
you.
You're able to follow up with amessage.
Like I said, you're able togive a calendly meeting invite
link in a way that doesn't feelsalesy, it doesn't feel spammy,
(19:51):
it's just a natural next stepthat people would take after
they started to learn from you.
And these LinkedIn live streamshave this long tail effect where
a lot of times people willclick the alert of you inviting
them to the event, but theevents already happened and you
they'll end up done justwatching the recording that
that's on the event page.
So I did one a week ago, tuesdayof last week, and it was a 30
(20:15):
minute live stream and within 36hours I had over a thousand
minutes watched on the livestream, and it's because I'm
educating this audience on howto use LinkedIn Right.
I'm sharing what I know, justlike I'm doing on the podcast
with you, and so that's thebeauty, I think, of not only
LinkedIn live streams but justLinkedIn in general and the ways
that we've been talking aboutit is it allows you to really
(20:37):
build relationship with yourprospects.
Share what you know, becausewe're all experts in our areas
of industry and business.
So share what you know.
Don't sell and then figure outthese different ways that you
can insert your calendars tokind of take things to the next
level where you can actuallybook meetings.
And if you think abouteverything we've talked about,
none of this has anything to dowith organic posts.
(20:58):
It's all about honing in onyour ICPs.
It's all about providing valueand it's all about getting them
to move them through the funnelinto actually having
conversation.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Okay, so first off, I just I love your philosophy on
this whole thing.
So educating, buildingrelationships and then getting
them to a discovery call wherethey can make a decision right,
we're adding value, so nobodyloses.
This isn't like it's sellingbut not selling, and I think a
(21:29):
lot of business owners,especially in the B2B space, a
lot of times they struggle withselling and they think sales is
a four letter word and not whenyou do it right, you know,
because marketing is all aboutrelationships and when you're
building these relationshipshere like this, that's just,
(21:51):
it's so, it's so powerful.
So I love this, I love yourtips, I love your insights and
all the information you shared.
If you want to learn more,definitely check out his
information and Rainmaker in theshow notes and video
description down below, becauseI think that there's just so
(22:11):
much more to get to.
Before I let you go, though, Ido need to ask you the question
that I ask all of my guests, andthat is this show's called
Imperfect Marketing.
Marketing is anything but aperfect science.
What has been your biggestmarketing lesson learned?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
I think it is getting out of the sales mindset and
getting into the teachingmindset.
So you know, I've been.
I've sat in the sales seatsince I was 22 years old.
I know what it feels like to asa founder or a sales or
marketer like you want to closebusiness, you want to grow
business, you want to generaterevenue.
It's like emotional attachmentto just trying to get the person
(22:48):
on the other end to buy fromyou.
We got to emotionally distanceourselves from that and just
remember these marketingprinciples of like.
I think it's what seven or 11touches before somebody starts
to feel real comfortable withyou and all that.
Linkedin is the perfectopportunity for you to do that
in all the ways that we'vetalked about and more.
And so I think for me, nothingis more concrete in my mind than
(23:10):
using that educational mindsetand get out of feeling that
pressure of selling and get intothe mindset of educating.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And I think that there's again so much value
there in providing value.
I can't reiterate it enough asto how important that is for
people as they continue, as theycontinue their journey in their
business.
And all right, let me ask youone, one last question here,
(23:37):
because it just came to mind,because I think one of the
biggest pushbacks I get frompeople is, if I share everything
, then they're just going to gooff and do it themselves, and
and my thought is is well, thosepeople aren't going to buy from
you anyway, whether you shareit or not.
But what are your?
Speaker 2 (23:54):
thoughts.
Do not let the fear of sharingever stop you.
Don't let it stop you becauseyou're worried people are going
to take it.
Go do it themselves.
Don't let it stop you if youthink one of your competitors
are going to try and copy youlike you have to share the
uniqueness and the value thatyou provide and I guarantee the
vast majority of people.
If it's a real pain point, theydon't have the time to go do it
(24:17):
.
They don't have the time or theability to do it in the way
that you do it, and if thepain's big enough, they will
hire you.
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Well, thank you again so much for joining me.
This episode has been packedwith actionable tips and
information which I love and Ilove to share with you all,
watching and listening.
If you learn something today,it would really help me out if
you would rate and subscribewherever you're listening or
watching.
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