May 29, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode of Imperfect Marketing, host Kendra Corman welcomes podcasting coach and marketing expert Darren Saul to unpack the power of podcasting—not just as a content tool, but as a full-fledged marketing engine for business owners and entrepreneurs.
Darren shares his journey from corporate recruiting and photography to launching two podcasts and building a thriving content ecosystem. From simple tech setups to editing hacks and promotion strategies, this episode is your all-in-one starter guide to launching a podcast with imperfect action.
We explore:
Why Podcasting Still Works in 2025
- Darren's shift from traditional marketing to digital content—and why podcasting stood out
- The personal connection podcasts create by putting your voice in someone’s ear for 30–60 minutes
- Why guesting is a great first step—and how to make the most of it with repurposing
Getting Started Without the Overwhelm
- Why podcasting today is more accessible than ever (you can start for under $200)
- Recommended low-budget tools like Zoom, Podbean, Riverside, and simple mic setups
- There are no hard rules—your podcast can be as short or long, polished or raw as you want
Tackling the Tech and Editing
- Darren’s take on modern editing tools like Descript, iMovie, CapCut, and AI solutions
- Why you don’t need to edit every “um” and “ah”—natural is better than robotic
- Streamlining your workflow by editing video/audio together in one place
Promotion: The Most Important Piece
- The biggest mistake podcasters make (hint: not promoting enough!)
- Darren’s tips on ongoing podcast promotion using clips, snippets, quotes, newsletters, and more
- Tools he loves: Opus Clip, Canva, Riverside, ChatGPT for show notes and blogs
Making Your Podcast Content Work Harder
- Why podcasting creates five types of content: audio, video, images, quotes, and written
- Repurposing strategies to avoid “everything looking the same” on your social channels
- Darren’s advice: creativity is a muscle—exercise it regularly to stay fresh and inspired
The Business Value of Podcasting
- Why podcasting saves time and amplifies your marketing
- Building trust, authority, and audience connection with consistent publishing
- How podcasting helps you build relationships faster than a website ever could
Darren’s No-Fluff Advice
- You’re already creating content—why not podcast and kill two birds with one stone?
- Use AI to save hours of editing and content creation time
- Don’t chase perfection—launch with what you have and iterate
Key Takeaways for Marketers
- Podcasting is more accessible, affordable, and effective than ever
- Imperfect action beats no action—just start
- Promotion is just as important as production
- Podcasting builds trust faster than most marketing channels
Whether you're a solopreneur thinking about launching a show or a business owner ready to maximize your content strategy, this episode will give you the real-world tools and encouragement you need to get started now—not later.
Looking to leverage AI? Want better results? Want to think about what you want to leverage?
Check and see how I am using it for FREE on YouTube.
From "Holy cow, it can do that?" to "Wait, how does this work again?" – I've got all your AI curiosities covered. It's the perfect after-podcast snack for your tech-hungry brain.
Watch her
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Kendra Korman .
If you're a coach, consultantor marketer, you know marketing
is far from a perfect science,and that's why this show is
called Imperfect Marketing.
Join me and my guests as weexplore how to grow your
business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned
along the way.
Hello, and welcome back toanother episode of Imperfect
(00:27):
Marketing.
I'm your host, kendra Corman,and today we're going to be
talking about podcasting, whichis clearly something that's
important to me, as you'relistening or watching my podcast
, right, I'm super excited tohave Darren Saul here to talk
about podcasting.
Welcome, darren.
Tell me, how did you get intopodcasting?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, thank you.
First of all, thanks for havingme on the show.
Lovely to be here with youraudience.
Yes, podcasting is one of thosethings that everybody loves to
talk about, me included.
My background's interesting.
I've been a corporate recruiterfor over 25 years and I do a
lot of work as a photographer.
And probably about seven, eightyears ago I realized that the
(01:09):
traditional ways of marketingand building prospects and
clients and getting work wasn'tworking as well.
You know, cold calling ads inlocal papers, letter drops,
whatever, what have you and Ithought you know what?
There's got to be a better way.
And I was doing a lot ofresearch and I stumbled onto
(01:31):
podcasting and digital media andI was kind of new to that whole
world.
But then I thought what thehell?
And I'm very impulsive, sowhenever I have an idea, I just
dive right in and don't worryabout anything and just jump in
and just build it as I go.
So I ended up building twopodcasts, one for my recruitment
(01:52):
business and one for myphotography business, which I
still run today and I've lovedit so much.
You know, seven, eight yearslater, that I'm really trying to
build an ecosystem and trainpeople around using podcasting
for marketing.
So I call it podcast marketingbecause I'm extremely passionate
using podcasting as a marketingtool.
That's a quick little rundowninto the last seven years.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That's awesome, well, and podcasting is an amazing
marketing tool.
It is unbelievable the reachthe audience, the way that you
can connect with people.
I know that I've had podcastlisteners reach out to me with
questions or they've hired me asfor some consulting work and
(02:40):
things like that.
They feel like they know mebecause they've been listening
or watching me for months oryears, right, and so we've
created this relationship that'sbased in who I am right.
They're not surprised by what Ilook like or who I am or what I
sound like.
Like we just connect that way,which is fantastic.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
It's a very intimate experience.
You're in someone's ear for 45minutes an hour and it's a very
intimate experience.
You're in someone's ear for 45minutes an hour and they really
get to know you.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So one of the ways that I started was just starting
with my own show, because whynot right?
But I know a lot of peoplestart with guesting and then
they enjoy doing that.
Why would someone put theeffort in creating their own
show?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
That's a really good one.
And, like I do a lot ofworkshops and teaching around
podcasting and I get thatquestion all the time Like, is
it a lot of work?
Why should I bother?
Is it saturated?
Should I even start?
You get this all the time andthe way I answer it is I say,
actually that's a really goodpoint.
Look, you've got two ways to goaround things or two ways to go
(03:46):
about it.
You can either get on otherpeople's shows.
If you're really not sure aboutputting in the work to build
your own show, get on otherpeople's shows first.
Do that whole what's the word?
Roadshow of getting on otherpeople's podcasts, but at least
do one thing and ask for thefootage and then use the footage
(04:08):
, Because a lot of people mybiggest gripe with podcasters is
they don't do anything with thefootage they make and, as
podcasters and also podcasteesis they put in all this energy
to go on people's shows, prepare, tell their story, execute
beautifully, and then they donothing with it.
So to me that's crazy.
(04:29):
And so, from a guest point ofview, at least get the raw
footage, chop it up, market it,use it, put it into all these
other great tools that arearound and you can go for a
six-month, one, one yearroadshow, creating incredible
amounts of content, just gettingon other people's shows, and
then, if you're really seriousabout building your brand and
(04:52):
you want to do it on your ownand you want to go to the next
level, do that.
So you can really go two waysand it's up to you which way you
want to go and how much energyand how much commitment you
think you've got to have.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yes, I mean.
So guesting is a great way tostart and then leveraging that
content.
It gives you some authenticity,some authority in the space and
I think it really gives you afeel for how people do their
shows differently and how youwould want to do it Right From a
guest perspective and then froma listener perspective.
(05:23):
It doesn't hurt as research tobe doing that, but I yeah, if
you're serious about buildingyour brand, having that content
out there is is huge.
The next question that Iusually get asked is I'm not
really good with technology or Idon't have a big budget.
I'm just starting out.
You know how much is this goingto cost?
(05:43):
I usually tell people it cancost as little as $12 a month
for the hosting platform.
What about you?
What do you recommend people dofrom technology and how much is
this going to run?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, and that's the beautiful thing about this new
generation of podcasting I'llcall it pre-pandemic time.
You had to have a studio, youhad to have an audio engineer,
you had to have a videographerif you wanted to video.
There was a lot more workinvolved, whereas during the
pandemic and after the pandemic,all this amazing technology has
(06:20):
just come to the market to makethis really easy and to allow
people to have their own homestudio and connect and
collaborate with people allaround the world.
Which is fantastic for peanuts.
So for those things likeRiverside and Zoom is close to
free and all those other toolsand your podcast apps like
(06:45):
Spotify, for Creators, podbean,they're either free or $5, $10 a
month.
They're nothing.
And then all you need is somekind of microphone which, if you
really want to go simple, youcan use your AirPods or
something really simple, or youcan get a really basic mic like
this for $50, some lighting andsome kind of camera, and that's
(07:09):
it.
So you can set up your wholestudio for under a couple of
hundred dollars, and then that'sa once-off and then it's a very
small monthly fee just for someof the tech and that's it.
So it's become reallycost-effective and really great
because you can collaborate withpeople around the world much
better than just always havingpeople in your own city.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yes, it gives you so much more reach and access to
more stories.
And it's fantastic, because I'malways amazed by the people
that are like oh, I'm so nervous, I'm going to be on a podcast.
Yeah, yep, that's good.
You can be nervous the firstcouple of times, but it's not
that bad, right?
(07:50):
Or they'll be like I wasinvited to go on this podcast
and I don't know, I don't likethe way I sound.
Suck it up, buttercup, that'swhat I like to say.
I'm like you don't sound likenails on a chalkboard.
Let's go, you know, give it atry.
People are paying attention tothe content that you're sharing,
not necessarily how you sound,right.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And how you sound is how you sound anyway in person.
So what are you worried about?
All you've done is just scalewhat you do in person.
So what the hell?
Just dive in.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, exactly, and hosting your own show gets you
over like.
I used to hate watching myselfWell, still not a fan of
watching myself, but anyway butI used to hate it Like really,
really hate it, like leave theroom if someone was watching a
video where I was in.
And I mean, the pandemic got methrough a lot of that because I
(08:45):
was on Zoom all the time.
But you know, having my ownshow and my own podcast got me
over a lot of that because I wason Zoom all the time.
But you know, having my ownshow and my own podcast got me
over a lot of those issuesbecause now it's like nope,
that's just me, that's just whoI am.
We're going to roll with it,right?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Definitely and you kind of come into your own and
you, you show, you positionyourself as you want and you
just start owning it, oh youposition yourself as you want
and you just start owning it.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So all right.
So they've decided to go off ontheir own and put in the work
to have their own show.
They've got the tech, they'reall lined up, they've got their
home studio.
Now how much time is this goingto take them to really create
their own show and really?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
again, it's how long is a piece of string?
I know podcasters that put outa one or two minute message
every day.
That's it on audio form.
And then I know podcasters thatgo for three hours for one
conversation and then that'scould be heavily produced video
and audio.
So it's really whatever it isthat you want it to be.
(09:46):
And a lot of people ask me thatthey say how long should this,
how long has to?
There are no rules.
This is a creative outlet.
People think there's a rulebook for podcasting.
There's something they have tofollow and if they don't, it's
not called a podcast.
That's absolutely rubbish.
A podcast is whatever it is youwant it to be, and it can be as
(10:07):
long or as short or asexpensive, and produced or
unproduced and raw as you wantit to be.
And it can be as long or asshort or as expensive, and
produced or unproduced and rawas you want it to be, and it can
just be your own creativeoutlet.
So people have to just chill.
Don't worry about it, just getin there, have some fun.
You'll find your way.
You'll find your style.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Don't worry so much about what everybody else is
doing and what everythingshouldn't be like A hundred
percent on that because, like my, episodes used to be an hour
long.
I started with one episode aweek, then I moved to two, now
I'm back to one because I'mworking on some other
initiatives.
Yeah, I mean, it used to be anhour and then I found out that
(10:47):
people were falling off aroundthe 30 minute mark.
Once you start getting data to,that can help dictate some of
it.
Also, right, you can startadjusting the length of of your
recordings and how much timeyou're spending, because
ultimately it comes down to whenare your people listening and
how long do they have.
(11:08):
I still remember when we myhusband and I went to Tokyo
Japan, for he was going onbusiness and I tagged along
because it was Japan and I stillremember we were doing a bunch
of research about the Japaneseculture, specifically Tokyo, and
they were on over two hourcommutes, some of the people
into Tokyo from where they lived.
(11:30):
That's a long time.
Here in Metro Detroit you'relike 15, 20, maybe 30 minutes on
your commute.
So if your audience islistening on their commute or on
their walk, they might onlyhave 15, 30 minutes to listen,
have 15, 30 minutes to listen,so three hours might not work,
(11:53):
but if your content's superengaging, like some of those
longer shows people love andthey will stay tuned in the
whole time.
So I think it depends on, likeagain, who you're targeting to
and how much time they have.
How long are your podcasts?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, my sweet spot is probably about 45 minutes.
Usually 40 to 45 minutes is mysweet spot.
Some are a bit shorter, someare a bit longer, but I agree.
I think that generally in a lotof the Western world the
mainstream listeners arelistening to podcasts at the gym
, on their walk, on the commute,so that 30 to 40 minute mark
(12:34):
seems to be about the sweet spot.
But again, it depends on whoyou're targeting, where they are
, what they're studying A lot.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
It depends.
So start with what you have andwhat you can make interesting,
right?
I think that that's soimportant.
So let's talk about the thingthat people are afraid of
editing.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I thought you were going to say putting themselves
out there.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, Well, I mean, they're already scared of that,
but we already told them to suckit up.
So, um, but editing is.
I think that's one of the bigbarriers that people struggle
with.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And with editing as well, you can really go crazy
and you can edit for a day oryou can not edit at all, or you
can edit for 10 minutes, andwith the new tools that are
around now as well, there's lotsof great AI tools that are
there to help you.
So when I started editing, Iused to edit everything myself,
but now I've got to the pointwhere it's just I'm too busy and
(13:32):
I have a team that edits for meand they use a lot of these
great tools and they make itsound way better than even I
could make it sound.
And it really nowadays youdon't have to spend a lot of
money, you don't have to spend alot of time.
But if you're starting out, youshould learn how to do basic
editing, just so you can dostuff if you need to.
(13:54):
You just know what the processis like, and if you're a Mac
person, which I am, iMovie isyour best friend.
It's the most beautiful product.
But if you're a Windows person,there are products like that
that are just as easy, likeCapCut and all sorts of other
Filmora and all sorts of othersoftware.
That makes it really easy thesedays, and you want to try and
(14:16):
streamline your editing as well.
One thing that I teach when I'mteaching editing is try and put
everything into.
Put the audio and the videofile.
If you're doing audio and video, put the audio and video file
into one place, edit it alltogether and then export
separately.
Don't edit twice.
You're trying to streamline theprocess because you don't want
(14:38):
to be spending hours and hoursdoing that.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I think that that's really important and I think,
again, you can determine thequality of your output right.
So overproduced does not meanor a ton of editing time doesn't
necessarily mean better contenteither, or better audio.
Sometimes you can make it worse.
But if you take out all of, Iactually know what my waveform
(15:01):
looks like when I say so as atransition, because I used to
edit it out all of the time andthen I started leaving it in
because that's how I talk,that's what I use, right, and I
think it's just so important.
No, that wasn't a transition,that was actually in the
(15:22):
sentence, so I'm good there.
But it's so important to havesome of those natural pauses and
some of those natural fillers,because if you edit it all out,
I had one guest that I thinksaid um, like 750 times.
So I took out like 200 of them,right, so you don't have to
(15:43):
take them all out, and sometimesthat makes for a smoother
podcast that feels more natural.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I 100% agree with you .
Like a lot of my team, I'll sayto them just make it, take out
some of the filler words, butmake it sound natural.
Otherwise, especially with theAI software now, it can become
very robotic and strange.
If you remove all the fillerwords and everything, it's this
chop, chop, chop, chop, chop,weird flow.
(16:13):
So if you're editing, leavesome of that stuff in there
because, as you say, it's morehuman, it's more natural.
But if someone's saying armevery second word, there's a bit
of work to do.
Yeah, and that drives me a bitnuts when that happens, but you
got to do it.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I think that you know , ken, you're going to publish
it and rerecord it a hundredtimes to try and get it to your
level of perfection.
You don't have to do that.
You do need strong audioquality.
We overanalyze our podcastingquality or the content or how
(16:52):
we're showing up in it too much.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
You know, people, even when they're listening to
you, normally they don't evenhear or take in half that stuff.
They're just feeling whatyou're saying, they're getting
the general gist of your content, they're feeling your energy.
That stuff doesn't even compute.
So why are we worried so much?
When we podcast?
Speaker 1 (17:11):
It's the same thing, exactly, totally All right.
So we've recorded it, with ourwonderful stuff, we're getting
ready, it's launched or it'slaunching and we need to promote
it.
What's next?
That's the fun.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
That's where the fun comes in.
And I always say to people youcan have the most amazing
podcast, but if you don'tpromote it and nobody knows it
exists, what is the point?
Just like a website, just likeanything.
So the big part, or the biggestpart of podcasting is the
promotion.
Really, I believe it's going tosound good, it's going to sound
(17:50):
reasonable.
It doesn't have to soundperfect, but you have to promote
it.
And you've got to pre-promoteit, post-promote it, promote the
hell out of it for the nextyear and keep revisiting it.
You've got to keep onrepurposing and repromoting and
being creative in how you dothat, because that's the way
people are going to come to yourshow.
(18:10):
So I can't stress that enough.
I think that's really, reallyimportant.
And again, all the great toolsout there, like Opus, clip and
Splashio and CapCut and Descriptand Riverside and all that
stuff, create all those littlesnippet videos for you, those
little bits of audio for you,the transcripts.
(18:31):
Chatgpt is amazing when itcomes to that stuff.
You can do all this stuffreally easily.
But then you've got to use yoursocial media channels.
You've got to use yournewsletter to use your social
media channels.
You've got to use yournewsletter.
You've got to use any channelthat you have to link people
back to your podcast constantlyand don't always think that when
(18:51):
you post something once orpromote something once, that's
it.
Everybody knows about it.
It does not happen that way.
You're talking about 5% of youraudience will never see it.
So you can do it a hundredtimes more.
Just be creative in how you doit and revisit it.
Make it look a bit different.
Two or three together.
Put greatest hits, do whateveryou got to do, put documentary
(19:13):
content along the side of it,whatever.
But you've got to learn topromote, because the promotion
is everything.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
All right, so here's one that I've gotten as a
question in the past.
All of my content's starting tolook the same because it's all
the podcast.
What do you say to?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
that Beautiful.
And the thing that I love aboutpodcasting is that if you do
video and audio podcasting, likewe're doing right now, it gives
you the capacity to doeverything, because you can
strip audio, video, graphic,photo, written content, using
(19:53):
all the tools that we havearound nowadays, from that one
show and if people think, ohyeah, it's starting to look the
same, no problem.
Take the audio, throw it intoCanva, put a different image
over the top, put a differentvideo over the top, do whatever
you want to do and make it lookdifferent totally, but it's
still the audio content.
(20:14):
Or just take the transcript,throw it into ChatGPT, write a
blog article.
You don't have to have the samevideo content snippets all the
time.
There are so many other ways togo about promoting the content
from that show, and that's whatI love about it, because it
gives you those five differentforms of content and it's up to
(20:37):
you to decide what you want todo with it.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Well, I think about pulling out yeah, I mean along
the lines of the blog pull out aquote, put that on an image in
Canva and then link to thepodcast.
Right, there's a milliondifferent ways you can make it
look different.
But I find that when peoplestart getting into the habit of
doing it with the clips andthings like that, that they
sometimes forget about thosepieces.
(21:01):
And there's just so much thatyou can do.
It's so important to know.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
You really have to learn.
Like, creativity is a muscleand the more you exercise it,
the more creative you become.
I stole that from a guy, theguy that started Creative Live.
His name is Chase Jarvis, Ithink Lovely guy, and he writes
books on this and he has apodcast on this exact concept.
Creativity is a muscle and youneed to exercise it.
(21:29):
So the more you do it.
If you sit down and think, allright, how am I going to work
with this today?
What can I do today that Ididn't do yesterday, Then you
will come up with all sorts ofthings.
You've just got to sit down andactively think, all right, how
can I create something different?
But if you're just in themindset of being automatic and
(21:50):
robotic and not thinking aboutwhat you're doing, it's going to
be all the same.
So you really have to have alittle bit of awareness and
thought about being a littledifferent and being creative.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
And, again, your podcast lends to all of those.
So there's so many differentways that you can do it.
It's just amazing.
So podcasting is fantastic forlead generation, business
opportunities, networking withyour guests you, if you're a
guest, networking with yourhosts.
There's just so many differentthings that you can do with your
(22:22):
hosts.
There's just so many differentthings that you can do with your
podcast.
I am a huge fan and I dorecommend to a lot of my clients
that they start one.
They just got to find the timeto do it and prioritize it,
because it can save them so muchtime in the long run, so much
time in the long run.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
That's a really good point If I could just jump in.
Yeah, like a lot of times,people will say, oh, should I
podcast?
Should I?
Blah, blah, blah, and I'll say,look, you're running a business
, yes, you need to market, yes,so you've got to be marketing
anyway and you've got to becreating content anyway.
Why the hell just start apodcast and use that podcast and
(22:59):
kill two birds with one stone?
Why the hell would you do it.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I agree, 100%, 100%.
It just streamlines the processso much.
And again, as you werementioning the AI tools, I save
over three hours an episode justwith AI.
It's crazy and it's just.
Yeah, it's so much easier nowthan it ever used to be.
And I started before AI.
(23:25):
Yep, yeah, it's so much easiernow than it ever used to be so,
and I started before AI.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
So, yep, me too, I know.
I remember the old days ofmanually doing everything.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yes, yes.
So thank you so much forjoining us and for talking
through the podcasting processwith me today.
Hopefully everybody that'slistening and watching got
something out of it.
There's just so many gems inthere that I think if you're on
the fence about starting apodcast, hopefully this will put
you over that over on the otherside and get you started.
(23:55):
If you want to connect withDarren, we'll have his contact
information in the show notesand video description down below
, so be sure to do that.
Now, before I let you go, I dohave to ask you the question
that I ask all of my guests.
This show is called ImperfectMarketing because marketing is
anything but a perfect science.
(24:15):
What's been your biggestmarketing lesson learned?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Really good one, and we've touched on this
beautifully today actuallyduring the conversation.
Really good one, and we'vetouched on this beautifully
today, actually during theconversation, because we've
discussed how everything is sosubjective and so fluid.
My biggest lesson learnedreally is that there is no one
size fits all with marketing.
You have to constantly betesting and tweaking and working
(24:42):
out what's going to work foryour audience and your style,
whereas following a formula ofsomebody else is not going to
work necessarily.
So it's really about constantlytesting, and I'm doing
podcasting.
Maybe one channel works betterfor me in terms of marketing
than someone who's doing finance.
You just have to play andexperiment and see what's going
(25:05):
to work for you.
There's no one size fits all.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I love that and I agree with it One million
percent for that one, because itis.
It's about testing andexperimenting and finding out
where your audience is and howyou resonate with them, and
podcasting is just such apowerful tool for that.
Again, if you're thinking aboutit, I encourage you to think
harder and start taking actionImperfect action when you get
(25:32):
started.
Nobody wants you to listen totheir first episodes.
Right, Go ahead Like, yeah,don't listen to mine, Don't
listen to my first podcast thatended at eight episodes.
Right, have a plan, have astrategy and know what you want
to achieve with your podcast andjust get started doing it right
.
Because this is one of thosethings that you will be so happy
(25:56):
that you started it now, ratherthan 10 years from now.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
I always say to people that these days, a
podcast is almost replacing awebsite.
People are finding you andlearning more about you from
your podcast than they are fromyour website.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Definitely.
And the content that it bringsand they're building a
relationship with you, and weknow how important relationships
are in business.
They build that know like andtrust factor just so much faster
.
So thank you again, darren, forcoming.
I appreciate it.
Thank you all for tuning in andlistening or watching.
(26:35):
If you learned something today,it would help me out if you
would rate and subscribewherever you are.
Until next time, have a greatrest of your day.
Hi, I'm Kendra Korman .
If you're a coach, consultantor marketer, you know marketing
is far from a perfect science,and that's why this show is
called Imperfect Marketing.
Join me and my guests as weexplore how to grow your
business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned
along the way.
Hello, and welcome back toanother episode of Imperfect
(00:27):
Marketing.
I'm your host, kendra Corman,and today we're going to be
talking about podcasting, whichis clearly something that's
important to me, as you'relistening or watching my podcast
, right, I'm super excited tohave Darren Saul here to talk
about podcasting.
Welcome, darren.
Tell me, how did you get intopodcasting?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, thank you.
First of all, thanks for havingme on the show.
Lovely to be here with youraudience.
Yes, podcasting is one of thosethings that everybody loves to
talk about, me included.
My background's interesting.
I've been a corporate recruiterfor over 25 years and I do a
lot of work as a photographer.
And probably about seven, eightyears ago I realized that the
(01:09):
traditional ways of marketingand building prospects and
clients and getting work wasn'tworking as well.
You know, cold calling ads inlocal papers, letter drops,
whatever, what have you and Ithought you know what?
There's got to be a better way.
And I was doing a lot ofresearch and I stumbled onto
(01:31):
podcasting and digital media andI was kind of new to that whole
world.
But then I thought what thehell?
And I'm very impulsive, sowhenever I have an idea, I just
dive right in and don't worryabout anything and just jump in
and just build it as I go.
So I ended up building twopodcasts, one for my recruitment
(01:52):
business and one for myphotography business, which I
still run today and I've lovedit so much.
You know, seven, eight yearslater, that I'm really trying to
build an ecosystem and trainpeople around using podcasting
for marketing.
So I call it podcast marketingbecause I'm extremely passionate
using podcasting as a marketingtool.
That's a quick little rundowninto the last seven years.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
That's awesome, well, and podcasting is an amazing
marketing tool.
It is unbelievable the reachthe audience, the way that you
can connect with people.
I know that I've had podcastlisteners reach out to me with
questions or they've hired me asfor some consulting work and
(02:40):
things like that.
They feel like they know mebecause they've been listening
or watching me for months oryears, right, and so we've
created this relationship that'sbased in who I am right.
They're not surprised by what Ilook like or who I am or what I
sound like.
Like we just connect that way,which is fantastic.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
It's a very intimate experience.
You're in someone's ear for 45minutes an hour and it's a very
intimate experience.
You're in someone's ear for 45minutes an hour and they really
get to know you.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
So one of the ways that I started was just starting
with my own show, because whynot right?
But I know a lot of peoplestart with guesting and then
they enjoy doing that.
Why would someone put theeffort in creating their own
show?
Speaker 2 (03:22):
That's a really good one.
And, like I do a lot ofworkshops and teaching around
podcasting and I get thatquestion all the time Like, is
it a lot of work?
Why should I bother?
Is it saturated?
Should I even start?
You get this all the time andthe way I answer it is I say,
actually that's a really goodpoint.
Look, you've got two ways to goaround things or two ways to go
(03:46):
about it.
You can either get on otherpeople's shows.
If you're really not sure aboutputting in the work to build
your own show, get on otherpeople's shows first.
Do that whole what's the word?
Roadshow of getting on otherpeople's podcasts, but at least
do one thing and ask for thefootage and then use the footage
(04:08):
, Because a lot of people mybiggest gripe with podcasters is
they don't do anything with thefootage they make and, as
podcasters and also podcasteesis they put in all this energy
to go on people's shows, prepare, tell their story, execute
beautifully, and then they donothing with it.
So to me that's crazy.
(04:29):
And so, from a guest point ofview, at least get the raw
footage, chop it up, market it,use it, put it into all these
other great tools that arearound and you can go for a
six-month, one, one yearroadshow, creating incredible
amounts of content, just gettingon other people's shows, and
then, if you're really seriousabout building your brand and
(04:52):
you want to do it on your ownand you want to go to the next
level, do that.
So you can really go two waysand it's up to you which way you
want to go and how much energyand how much commitment you
think you've got to have.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
Yes, I mean.
So guesting is a great way tostart and then leveraging that
content.
It gives you some authenticity,some authority in the space and
I think it really gives you afeel for how people do their
shows differently and how youwould want to do it Right From a
guest perspective and then froma listener perspective.
(05:23):
It doesn't hurt as research tobe doing that, but I yeah, if
you're serious about buildingyour brand, having that content
out there is is huge.
The next question that Iusually get asked is I'm not
really good with technology or Idon't have a big budget.
I'm just starting out.
You know how much is this goingto cost?
(05:43):
I usually tell people it cancost as little as $12 a month
for the hosting platform.
What about you?
What do you recommend people dofrom technology and how much is
this going to run?
Speaker 2 (05:56):
Yeah, and that's the beautiful thing about this new
generation of podcasting I'llcall it pre-pandemic time.
You had to have a studio, youhad to have an audio engineer,
you had to have a videographerif you wanted to video.
There was a lot more workinvolved, whereas during the
pandemic and after the pandemic,all this amazing technology has
(06:20):
just come to the market to makethis really easy and to allow
people to have their own homestudio and connect and
collaborate with people allaround the world.
Which is fantastic for peanuts.
So for those things likeRiverside and Zoom is close to
free and all those other toolsand your podcast apps like
(06:45):
Spotify, for Creators, podbean,they're either free or $5, $10 a
month.
They're nothing.
And then all you need is somekind of microphone which, if you
really want to go simple, youcan use your AirPods or
something really simple, or youcan get a really basic mic like
this for $50, some lighting andsome kind of camera, and that's
(07:09):
it.
So you can set up your wholestudio for under a couple of
hundred dollars, and then that'sa once-off and then it's a very
small monthly fee just for someof the tech and that's it.
So it's become reallycost-effective and really great
because you can collaborate withpeople around the world much
better than just always havingpeople in your own city.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Yes, it gives you so much more reach and access to
more stories.
And it's fantastic, because I'malways amazed by the people
that are like oh, I'm so nervous, I'm going to be on a podcast.
Yeah, yep, that's good.
You can be nervous the firstcouple of times, but it's not
that bad, right?
(07:50):
Or they'll be like I wasinvited to go on this podcast
and I don't know, I don't likethe way I sound.
Suck it up, buttercup, that'swhat I like to say.
I'm like you don't sound likenails on a chalkboard.
Let's go, you know, give it atry.
People are paying attention tothe content that you're sharing,
not necessarily how you sound,right.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
And how you sound is how you sound anyway in person.
So what are you worried about?
All you've done is just scalewhat you do in person.
So what the hell?
Just dive in.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Yeah, exactly, and hosting your own show gets you
over like.
I used to hate watching myselfWell, still not a fan of
watching myself, but anyway butI used to hate it Like really,
really hate it, like leave theroom if someone was watching a
video where I was in.
And I mean, the pandemic got methrough a lot of that because I
(08:45):
was on Zoom all the time.
But you know, having my ownshow and my own podcast got me
over a lot of that because I wason Zoom all the time.
But you know, having my ownshow and my own podcast got me
over a lot of those issuesbecause now it's like nope,
that's just me, that's just whoI am.
We're going to roll with it,right?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Definitely and you kind of come into your own and
you, you show, you positionyourself as you want and you
just start owning it, oh youposition yourself as you want
and you just start owning it.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
So all right.
So they've decided to go off ontheir own and put in the work
to have their own show.
They've got the tech, they'reall lined up, they've got their
home studio.
Now how much time is this goingto take them to really create
their own show and really?
Speaker 2 (09:26):
again, it's how long is a piece of string?
I know podcasters that put outa one or two minute message
every day.
That's it on audio form.
And then I know podcasters thatgo for three hours for one
conversation and then that'scould be heavily produced video
and audio.
So it's really whatever it isthat you want it to be.
(09:46):
And a lot of people ask me thatthey say how long should this,
how long has to?
There are no rules.
This is a creative outlet.
People think there's a rulebook for podcasting.
There's something they have tofollow and if they don't, it's
not called a podcast.
That's absolutely rubbish.
A podcast is whatever it is youwant it to be, and it can be as
(10:07):
long or as short or asexpensive, and produced or
unproduced and raw as you wantit to be.
And it can be as long or asshort or as expensive, and
produced or unproduced and rawas you want it to be, and it can
just be your own creativeoutlet.
So people have to just chill.
Don't worry about it, just getin there, have some fun.
You'll find your way.
You'll find your style.
Speaker 1 (10:26):
Don't worry so much about what everybody else is
doing and what everythingshouldn't be like A hundred
percent on that because, like my, episodes used to be an hour
long.
I started with one episode aweek, then I moved to two, now
I'm back to one because I'mworking on some other
initiatives.
Yeah, I mean, it used to be anhour and then I found out that
(10:47):
people were falling off aroundthe 30 minute mark.
Once you start getting data to,that can help dictate some of
it.
Also, right, you can startadjusting the length of of your
recordings and how much timeyou're spending, because
ultimately it comes down to whenare your people listening and
how long do they have.
(11:08):
I still remember when we myhusband and I went to Tokyo
Japan, for he was going onbusiness and I tagged along
because it was Japan and I stillremember we were doing a bunch
of research about the Japaneseculture, specifically Tokyo, and
they were on over two hourcommutes, some of the people
into Tokyo from where they lived.
(11:30):
That's a long time.
Here in Metro Detroit you'relike 15, 20, maybe 30 minutes on
your commute.
So if your audience islistening on their commute or on
their walk, they might onlyhave 15, 30 minutes to listen,
have 15, 30 minutes to listen,so three hours might not work,
(11:53):
but if your content's superengaging, like some of those
longer shows people love andthey will stay tuned in the
whole time.
So I think it depends on, likeagain, who you're targeting to
and how much time they have.
How long are your podcasts?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Yeah, my sweet spot is probably about 45 minutes.
Usually 40 to 45 minutes is mysweet spot.
Some are a bit shorter, someare a bit longer, but I agree.
I think that generally in a lotof the Western world the
mainstream listeners arelistening to podcasts at the gym
, on their walk, on the commute,so that 30 to 40 minute mark
(12:34):
seems to be about the sweet spot.
But again, it depends on whoyou're targeting, where they are
, what they're studying A lot.
Speaker 1 (12:41):
It depends.
So start with what you have andwhat you can make interesting,
right?
I think that that's soimportant.
So let's talk about the thingthat people are afraid of
editing.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
I thought you were going to say putting themselves
out there.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, Well, I mean, they're already scared of that,
but we already told them to suckit up.
So, um, but editing is.
I think that's one of the bigbarriers that people struggle
with.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
And with editing as well, you can really go crazy
and you can edit for a day oryou can not edit at all, or you
can edit for 10 minutes, andwith the new tools that are
around now as well, there's lotsof great AI tools that are
there to help you.
So when I started editing, Iused to edit everything myself,
but now I've got to the pointwhere it's just I'm too busy and
(13:32):
I have a team that edits for meand they use a lot of these
great tools and they make itsound way better than even I
could make it sound.
And it really nowadays youdon't have to spend a lot of
money, you don't have to spend alot of time.
But if you're starting out, youshould learn how to do basic
editing, just so you can dostuff if you need to.
(13:54):
You just know what the processis like, and if you're a Mac
person, which I am, iMovie isyour best friend.
It's the most beautiful product.
But if you're a Windows person,there are products like that
that are just as easy, likeCapCut and all sorts of other
Filmora and all sorts of othersoftware.
That makes it really easy thesedays, and you want to try and
(14:16):
streamline your editing as well.
One thing that I teach when I'mteaching editing is try and put
everything into.
Put the audio and the videofile.
If you're doing audio and video, put the audio and video file
into one place, edit it alltogether and then export
separately.
Don't edit twice.
You're trying to streamline theprocess because you don't want
(14:38):
to be spending hours and hoursdoing that.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
I think that that's really important and I think,
again, you can determine thequality of your output right.
So overproduced does not meanor a ton of editing time doesn't
necessarily mean better contenteither, or better audio.
Sometimes you can make it worse.
But if you take out all of, Iactually know what my waveform
(15:01):
looks like when I say so as atransition, because I used to
edit it out all of the time andthen I started leaving it in
because that's how I talk,that's what I use, right, and I
think it's just so important.
No, that wasn't a transition,that was actually in the
(15:22):
sentence, so I'm good there.
But it's so important to havesome of those natural pauses and
some of those natural fillers,because if you edit it all out,
I had one guest that I thinksaid um, like 750 times.
So I took out like 200 of them,right, so you don't have to
(15:43):
take them all out, and sometimesthat makes for a smoother
podcast that feels more natural.
Speaker 2 (15:52):
I 100% agree with you .
Like a lot of my team, I'll sayto them just make it, take out
some of the filler words, butmake it sound natural.
Otherwise, especially with theAI software now, it can become
very robotic and strange.
If you remove all the fillerwords and everything, it's this
chop, chop, chop, chop, chop,weird flow.
(16:13):
So if you're editing, leavesome of that stuff in there
because, as you say, it's morehuman, it's more natural.
But if someone's saying armevery second word, there's a bit
of work to do.
Yeah, and that drives me a bitnuts when that happens, but you
got to do it.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
I think that you know , ken, you're going to publish
it and rerecord it a hundredtimes to try and get it to your
level of perfection.
You don't have to do that.
You do need strong audioquality.
We overanalyze our podcastingquality or the content or how
(16:52):
we're showing up in it too much.
Speaker 2 (16:56):
You know, people, even when they're listening to
you, normally they don't evenhear or take in half that stuff.
They're just feeling whatyou're saying, they're getting
the general gist of your content, they're feeling your energy.
That stuff doesn't even compute.
So why are we worried so much?
When we podcast?
Speaker 1 (17:11):
It's the same thing, exactly, totally All right.
So we've recorded it, with ourwonderful stuff, we're getting
ready, it's launched or it'slaunching and we need to promote
it.
What's next?
That's the fun.
Speaker 2 (17:28):
That's where the fun comes in.
And I always say to people youcan have the most amazing
podcast, but if you don'tpromote it and nobody knows it
exists, what is the point?
Just like a website, just likeanything.
So the big part, or the biggestpart of podcasting is the
promotion.
Really, I believe it's going tosound good, it's going to sound
(17:50):
reasonable.
It doesn't have to soundperfect, but you have to promote
it.
And you've got to pre-promoteit, post-promote it, promote the
hell out of it for the nextyear and keep revisiting it.
You've got to keep onrepurposing and repromoting and
being creative in how you dothat, because that's the way
people are going to come to yourshow.
(18:10):
So I can't stress that enough.
I think that's really, reallyimportant.
And again, all the great toolsout there, like Opus, clip and
Splashio and CapCut and Descriptand Riverside and all that
stuff, create all those littlesnippet videos for you, those
little bits of audio for you,the transcripts.
(18:31):
Chatgpt is amazing when itcomes to that stuff.
You can do all this stuffreally easily.
But then you've got to use yoursocial media channels.
You've got to use yournewsletter to use your social
media channels.
You've got to use yournewsletter.
You've got to use any channelthat you have to link people
back to your podcast constantlyand don't always think that when
(18:51):
you post something once orpromote something once, that's
it.
Everybody knows about it.
It does not happen that way.
You're talking about 5% of youraudience will never see it.
So you can do it a hundredtimes more.
Just be creative in how you doit and revisit it.
Make it look a bit different.
Two or three together.
Put greatest hits, do whateveryou got to do, put documentary
(19:13):
content along the side of it,whatever.
But you've got to learn topromote, because the promotion
is everything.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
All right, so here's one that I've gotten as a
question in the past.
All of my content's starting tolook the same because it's all
the podcast.
What do you say to?
Speaker 2 (19:31):
that Beautiful.
And the thing that I love aboutpodcasting is that if you do
video and audio podcasting, likewe're doing right now, it gives
you the capacity to doeverything, because you can
strip audio, video, graphic,photo, written content, using
(19:53):
all the tools that we havearound nowadays, from that one
show and if people think, ohyeah, it's starting to look the
same, no problem.
Take the audio, throw it intoCanva, put a different image
over the top, put a differentvideo over the top, do whatever
you want to do and make it lookdifferent totally, but it's
still the audio content.
(20:14):
Or just take the transcript,throw it into ChatGPT, write a
blog article.
You don't have to have the samevideo content snippets all the
time.
There are so many other ways togo about promoting the content
from that show, and that's whatI love about it, because it
gives you those five differentforms of content and it's up to
(20:37):
you to decide what you want todo with it.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Well, I think about pulling out yeah, I mean along
the lines of the blog pull out aquote, put that on an image in
Canva and then link to thepodcast.
Right, there's a milliondifferent ways you can make it
look different.
But I find that when peoplestart getting into the habit of
doing it with the clips andthings like that, that they
sometimes forget about thosepieces.
(21:01):
And there's just so much thatyou can do.
It's so important to know.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
You really have to learn.
Like, creativity is a muscleand the more you exercise it,
the more creative you become.
I stole that from a guy, theguy that started Creative Live.
His name is Chase Jarvis, Ithink Lovely guy, and he writes
books on this and he has apodcast on this exact concept.
Creativity is a muscle and youneed to exercise it.
(21:29):
So the more you do it.
If you sit down and think, allright, how am I going to work
with this today?
What can I do today that Ididn't do yesterday, Then you
will come up with all sorts ofthings.
You've just got to sit down andactively think, all right, how
can I create something different?
But if you're just in themindset of being automatic and
(21:50):
robotic and not thinking aboutwhat you're doing, it's going to
be all the same.
So you really have to have alittle bit of awareness and
thought about being a littledifferent and being creative.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
And, again, your podcast lends to all of those.
So there's so many differentways that you can do it.
It's just amazing.
So podcasting is fantastic forlead generation, business
opportunities, networking withyour guests you, if you're a
guest, networking with yourhosts.
There's just so many differentthings that you can do with your
(22:22):
hosts.
There's just so many differentthings that you can do with your
podcast.
I am a huge fan and I dorecommend to a lot of my clients
that they start one.
They just got to find the timeto do it and prioritize it,
because it can save them so muchtime in the long run, so much
time in the long run.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
That's a really good point If I could just jump in.
Yeah, like a lot of times,people will say, oh, should I
podcast?
Should I?
Blah, blah, blah, and I'll say,look, you're running a business
, yes, you need to market, yes,so you've got to be marketing
anyway and you've got to becreating content anyway.
Why the hell just start apodcast and use that podcast and
(22:59):
kill two birds with one stone?
Why the hell would you do it.
Speaker 1 (23:04):
I agree, 100%, 100%.
It just streamlines the processso much.
And again, as you werementioning the AI tools, I save
over three hours an episode justwith AI.
It's crazy and it's just.
Yeah, it's so much easier nowthan it ever used to be.
And I started before AI.
(23:25):
Yep, yeah, it's so much easiernow than it ever used to be so,
and I started before AI.
Speaker 2 (23:27):
So, yep, me too, I know.
I remember the old days ofmanually doing everything.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Yes, yes.
So thank you so much forjoining us and for talking
through the podcasting processwith me today.
Hopefully everybody that'slistening and watching got
something out of it.
There's just so many gems inthere that I think if you're on
the fence about starting apodcast, hopefully this will put
you over that over on the otherside and get you started.
(23:55):
If you want to connect withDarren, we'll have his contact
information in the show notesand video description down below
, so be sure to do that.
Now, before I let you go, I dohave to ask you the question
that I ask all of my guests.
This show is called ImperfectMarketing because marketing is
anything but a perfect science.
(24:15):
What's been your biggestmarketing lesson learned?
Speaker 2 (24:18):
Really good one, and we've touched on this
beautifully today actuallyduring the conversation.
Really good one, and we'vetouched on this beautifully
today, actually during theconversation, because we've
discussed how everything is sosubjective and so fluid.
My biggest lesson learnedreally is that there is no one
size fits all with marketing.
You have to constantly betesting and tweaking and working
(24:42):
out what's going to work foryour audience and your style,
whereas following a formula ofsomebody else is not going to
work necessarily.
So it's really about constantlytesting, and I'm doing
podcasting.
Maybe one channel works betterfor me in terms of marketing
than someone who's doing finance.
You just have to play andexperiment and see what's going
(25:05):
to work for you.
There's no one size fits all.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
I love that and I agree with it One million
percent for that one, because itis.
It's about testing andexperimenting and finding out
where your audience is and howyou resonate with them, and
podcasting is just such apowerful tool for that.
Again, if you're thinking aboutit, I encourage you to think
harder and start taking actionImperfect action when you get
(25:32):
started.
Nobody wants you to listen totheir first episodes.
Right, Go ahead Like, yeah,don't listen to mine, Don't
listen to my first podcast thatended at eight episodes.
Right, have a plan, have astrategy and know what you want
to achieve with your podcast andjust get started doing it right
.
Because this is one of thosethings that you will be so happy
(25:56):
that you started it now, ratherthan 10 years from now.
Speaker 2 (26:01):
I always say to people that these days, a
podcast is almost replacing awebsite.
People are finding you andlearning more about you from
your podcast than they are fromyour website.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
Definitely.
And the content that it bringsand they're building a
relationship with you, and weknow how important relationships
are in business.
They build that know like andtrust factor just so much faster
.
So thank you again, darren, forcoming.
I appreciate it.
Thank you all for tuning in andlistening or watching.
(26:35):
If you learned something today,it would help me out if you
would rate and subscribewherever you are.
Until next time, have a greatrest of your day.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.