July 10, 2025 • 24 mins
In this episode of Imperfect Marketing, I sit down with Sena Wheeler, founder of Sena Sea and a fifth-generation fishing industry entrepreneur. What started as a Thanksgiving road trip idea turned into a thriving business selling premium, sustainably-caught Alaskan fish—and email marketing was at the heart of it.
Sena shares how she transformed her passion for food science and fish into a profitable business by embracing email marketing as her primary sales channel.
We explore:
- Building a Brand with a Story
- Getting Started with Email Marketing
- Writing Emails That Sell
- Copywriting Lessons and Resources
- Growing the Email List and Growing Revenue
Key Takeaways for Entrepreneurs and Email Marketers
- Treat writing like a core business skill—because it is
- Email marketing is a powerful tool, even (or especially) in “boring” industries
- Selling doesn’t have to be pushy—it can be a natural extension of connection and value
Whether you’re just starting to build your email list or looking to deepen your connection with your audience, this episode offers real-world insight into how consistent, authentic storytelling can fuel business growth—one email at a time.
Are you ready to stop overthinking your emails and start writing ones that actually sell? Tune in and get inspired to lean into your inner writer—because yes, you are one.
Connect with Sena:
Website: https://www.senasea.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/SENASEA_SEAFOODS
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/senaseafoods/
Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/SenaSeaWild/
Looking to leverage AI? Want better results? Want to think about what you want to leverage?
Check and see how I am using it for FREE on YouTube.
From "Holy cow, it can do that?" to "Wait, how does this work again?" – I've got all your AI curiosities covered. It's the perfect after-podcast snack for your tech-hungry brain.
Watch here
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Kendra Korman .
If you're a coach, consultantor marketer, you know marketing
is far from a perfect scienceand that's why this show is
called Imperfect Marketing.
Join me and my guests as weexplore how to grow your
business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned
along the way.
Hello, and welcome back toanother episode of Imperfect
(00:27):
Marketing.
I'm your host, Kendra Korman,and I am really, really excited,
like I was super excited when Igot an email about Sina Wheeler
, who is the founder of sinaccom.
Okay, and I just love the factthat you 10X'd your business by
writing better emails, which isjust amazing.
(00:48):
But before we jump into that,why don five generations?
But my parents say you know?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
probably 500, because my grandfather immigrated from
Norway.
He learned to commercially fishfrom his father, who learned
from his father, who learnedfrom his father.
So we're a fishing family.
We live in Washington state andwe fish up in Alaska and my
husband's a fisherman because hemarried in.
My dad was a fisherman becausehe married in.
So really we're sort of like mymom and I are like fishing
(01:30):
wives we just bring it, find thefisherman.
So my husband sort of marriedinto this and he's a fisherman
and so he's been doing that forover 20 years.
So we have a long history offish.
I have a master's degree in foodscience and I worked in
industry like regular normalnon-fish industry.
(01:50):
I studied fish and got mymaster's degree in fish and
omega-3 content and all that.
But I just worked for like abaked goods, you know, and for
10 years, and so that gave me alot of good.
I loved it.
I worked in a lab.
It was very like food science,like I wore a lab coat, it was
very cool.
And then I stayed home to, youknow, with our third child and
so I'd been home for a couple ofyears and my husband was
(02:13):
fishing and I've, you know, Istudied on board handling
techniques compared to sensory.
So I'm telling him all you know, like you have to do this and
you have to do that, like wehave, literally.
And he's catching Copper River,sockeye and King, like he's
catching the best fish on theplanet and he's handling it the
best you can possibly handle it.
(02:34):
And so one day we're on a roadtrip or going to Thanksgiving
and I'm, and he's on themarketing committee for Copper
River, which is like CopperRiver is a big deal, and I'm
going like you should do thisand you should do that and you
should market it like this, youshould market it like grass fed
beef and it should be specialbecause of this, and blah, blah,
blah.
And he finally just turns to meand goes you should.
And I was like no, you should.
(02:55):
And he's like no, you shouldmarket my fish.
It's the best fish, and you knowwhy?
And why don't you tell peopleand why don't we just sell it?
And I was, and by the time wegot to Thanksgiving we told
everybody we're starting abusiness, it's called Seen a Sea
, and the crazy thing is thatwas Thanksgiving and by the
(03:15):
first of the year, you know, wereally did.
We started the business and wehad it going because he's going
to he leaves for fishing in thespring and it was like, all
right, well, go catch some fishand I'll sell it on our website.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
That is just such a cool story.
I love that.
I love the origins, I love thehistory, I love the passion.
I mean it truly.
You can tell that you'repassionate about more than just
the company, right?
You're actually passionateabout the science behind the
food and how it's done, and thatis so cool, all right.
(03:48):
So you started the company andthen you started an email list
right away.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, you know, there's that moment like we got
the website going and weliterally I mean we had
champagne and we toast ourselveslike wow, we really did it.
And like we sit there and it'slike crickets.
I mean I don't know what weexpected.
Like we just expected that we'ddone the hard part and like
people would just show up and wehad no idea about marketing.
(04:14):
And so I was following anonline like class on how to set
up everything Right andthankfully because I had we were
living very rurally, I barelyeven had internet I had to watch
the videos like between eightat night and eight in the
morning and like wake up andwatch the videos.
I got three kids.
(04:34):
He's in Alaska.
I mean sometimes I'm like it'samazing that we pulled that off.
But you know, when you'repassionate, you do it Right.
And so the biggest thing waslike, oh, we didn't do the hard
part, that's the easy part, youknow, now we have to get people
to come, and part of my programwas, she said, set up an email
(04:54):
list, and I literally was likethis was 10 years ago.
I'm not on people's email listNow.
I'm very aware of what they are.
I didn't even know what it wasvery aware of what they are.
I didn't even know what it was.
I was like, okay, I'm just didit literally because step eight
do this.
And I'm like I told my websiteperson I guess I need an email
list, I don't know.
So I started sending and thenon the program, like now start
(05:18):
sending emails, and I'm like,okay, there's like 40 people on
my list and they're my ownfriends and family.
Okay, there's like 40 people onmy list and they're my own
friends and family.
So I emailed them.
So what I'm very thankful for isthat I did what I was told and
I started emailing them andthose emails were horrible.
Well, I just cringed thinkingabout them, you know.
(05:38):
But thank goodness I did thatand started where I started and
there was a few friends andfamily and they didn't hate me
for it.
They just like, oh, sina's socute, whatever, this is whatever
.
And it just I was able to keepa little bit of perspective,
(06:00):
like because my list was small.
I knew it was, it didn't matterthat much and it allowed me to
practice.
So by then our list just grewand grew and grew and it really
grew organically SEO and thingslike that, I guess.
Or people told their friends, Idon't know.
But we did have just steadygrowth and I just got better and
better at it.
And then I started takingcourses on how to write things
(06:21):
because I realized this is wheremy sales are coming from, right
away.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yes, 100%, and I love that you followed direction and
that you started an email list.
I got an email from someone, soI sent an email a couple months
ago now and it was if I was tostart over what I would do, and
one of the things that I woulddo is I would have started my
email list from the get-gorather than just I was.
(06:46):
I was very comfortable, right,I was getting referrals, my
business was growing.
I didn't have a big email listand I was like, yeah, I was like
I'm good, I don't really needthat.
But I made all my clients do itright, because I love email
marketing and I think that's oneof the most effective things.
But, of course, I didn't do itfor my business.
So that is just amazing thatyou did it for yours right from
(07:07):
the get go.
And just so you know, my firstemails were not so good.
My first podcast I don't evenwant to listen to those things
anymore.
Oh my gosh, they were so stiff.
And yes, so we all have tostart somewhere and I think that
it's good that we do and thatwe learn and get better as we go
.
So talk to me about why do youthink email marketing is
(07:28):
important to small businesses.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
It's definitely where I have the best connection with
my customers and because I'vebeen emailing and because my
emails, I've allowed myself tobe personal in the emails.
Like this is where I havelearned to express myself.
I can put it in an email Likesocial media doesn't.
I don't feel connected with mysocial media audience.
(07:51):
I post more content but I don'tfeel connected and I don't feel
like they know me.
But on my email audience, youknow I've talked about my kids
and this and that I mean I havemerged a lot because our
lifestyle does revolve aroundfish.
I mean you think, how can youtalk about fish?
I've talked about fish everyweek for 10 years and I've got
(08:14):
more to say, but I think it'sbecause it weaves our family in
so much, and so it's reallyabout the lifestyle.
You know, when Rich is coming,when he's going, what our kids
are doing.
They come out on the boat.
But I've also taken on thechallenge of, like, my son is a
wrestler and my husband's acoach when the off season, so
we're like a wrestling family.
It has nothing to do with fish,but if that's what I've done,
(08:36):
I'm doing all weekend, you know,and I got to write an email on
Monday.
It's like I would take thechallenge of like how can I
write about wrestling and have ahook, have a transition, make
it about fish, because I've sellin every single email and there
is a link to purchase fish inevery email and I judge every
email by how much it's sold.
I mean, that's what I'm, that'sthe point.
That's why I'm sending this toyou guys.
(08:58):
My audience.
I'm not trying to act like I'mnot selling fish, I am.
That's why I sent the email.
So I think that's part of ittoo, is having the confidence to
just yes, I am selling yousomething.
I'm going to tell this funstory, we're having a great time
, I'm going to transition it andI'm going to sell fish and I
feel fine about that.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And I don't think there's anything wrong with
selling.
In every email I have peoplethat are uncomfortable selling.
You can still build aconnection and have some people
not buy.
It doesn't have to be a hardsell on every email right, you
can make that connection.
It doesn't have to be boring.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
It doesn't have to be .
Here's the five reasons youshould buy from me today.
So that's part of what I havetaken, that challenge of, like I
use the wrestling, but you knowit's like, well, how do I write
a fun story?
And you know, make it work, andthat's kind of the challenge
but it's, you know, writingabout your life or being
authentic.
I've had times that last year itwas my son again, he was
(09:56):
graduating, but right, we hadgraduation right at the same
time of our Copper River Salmonopener and we have all these
pre-orders and I mean there's,you know we didn't get all the
fish in time and things werejust like not going perfect.
And I wrote this email to mycustomers and it was like thank
(10:17):
you, thank you for being patient, thank you for being the best
customers Like this is a lot andwe are doing the best we can
and I appreciate you guys and Iappreciate everything and I had
a huge positive response from it.
And then I put a link and soldsome fish and I sold a lot of
fish and so I think that youknow having that connection and
(10:40):
going ahead and writing, youknow they understand and get to
know you, but always going aheadand putting that link in there.
I think of it this way, too, iswhen my friends talk about
something that they really like,the first thing I say to them
is send me the link.
Like I want to buy it and Iwant you to make that easy for
me.
And when they send me a textwith the link, I'm very
(11:01):
appreciative because they justsaved me a bunch of time to go
and look for it.
So I feel like if I'm gonnatalk about fish and then not put
a link in, that's almost likerude, that's almost like now, go
find it for yourself.
So I think of it as a timesaver and a nice thing to do is
(11:22):
to put a link to your products.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
It definitely is a time saver, and there are people
who want to buy your productright.
So just because you're emailingthem and building that
relationship again, that sellingpiece doesn't have to be hard.
You're making it convenientbecause you have something that
they want or need, and I thinkthat that's really important to
keep in mind, and I love how youphrase it that way, that, hey,
you're helping them by includingthat link.
(11:45):
So we talked about the factthat you don't wanna read your
early emails, and I'm rightthere with you.
I changed the email system so Idon't ever have to see that
again.
How do you get more comfortablewriting and creating that,
because that's not easy.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
What you're saying to do to create a connection
between wrestling and fish,right, I think, just doing it
honestly, just taking the timeto do it.
And then I've also worked at it, so I've taken some courses on
copywriting, so I've, you know,incorporated some of that and I
found that, oh, when Iincorporate some of this, I can
do better, I can write better.
(12:22):
So it's this actual skill.
And then, through thatexperience of taking some
copywriting courses, I nowfollow copywriters and I'm on
their email list and I receivetheir emails and I read them,
and so I actually, just fromreading other people's emails
people that do a really good jobI think that that can be kind
(12:44):
of inspiring.
It's like you're not going todo the exact same thing, but
you're hearing their tone,you're seeing the way they're
writing, and that can help a lot.
So I think just putting alittle bit of effort into the
world of copywriting andfollowing some experts and
reading their stuff can make areal big difference.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yes, I had a copywriting coach, I think last
year.
No, it feels like forever ago,but anyway, last year for a
majority of the year, and it wasamazing.
I mean, I've written my wholelife.
I actually consider myself agood writer, but sometimes too
close to my business and so Idon't make the connections that
I should.
I don't always sell as much asI should, right, because it's my
(13:24):
business, and so it's differentand it's a little bit harder
and things like that.
And so making that effort, Ithink, is huge, and figuring out
what you like to read, right,what are you connecting with,
and then how can you take thoselessons and apply them to what
you want to do.
So I love that.
Are there any copywriters thatyou recommend we follow?
(13:46):
Oh, I'm going to blank on theirnames.
Oh, jump on our email list.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Of course, her group is the Shrimp Club.
Shrimpers and I'm trying tothink of Laura Belgray.
Yes, she's really good, and shesells products of copywriting.
And I'm trying to think ofLaura Belgray yes, she's really
good, and so, and she sellsproducts of copywriting and I've
taken some of her courses andshe's really good.
And just having just her stylelike you don't want to open with
a big paragraph, people aregoing to look at that and
(14:11):
they're just not even going towant to invest in reading it and
that's just the way it is.
People that looks like work,and so even just putting spaces
in and just cutting out somewords, you don't need these
lengthy sentences, people justwant to dive right in and have
it very digestible.
So I think making it reallylooking for easy to read.
(14:32):
When I took Laura's courses, itwas all about the red pen, just
like write it and then take mostof it out.
And when I that was years ago,like I found that I was taking
out my intro paragraph everysingle time.
I actually still write it.
Sometimes it helps me sit downand go like, because I did this
last week, now I'm talking toyou about this and blah, blah,
(14:55):
blah, blah, blah, and then Istart writing and then when I
edit I'm like, okay, yeah, justdelete that whole first
paragraph.
Nobody cares why I'm writingthis.
Yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
It's what's in it for me as the reader, right, so
they don't necessarily careabout the why behind it all the
time.
So let's talk about growingyour list and your revenue per
email, because you determine thesuccess of an email not by
opens or by clicks, but by sales, which I think is amazing.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I use Klaviyo, I used to use MailChimp, but either
one you get a number on.
You know, I have a link ineveryone, like I said, and I
have a sales number so I knowwhat's hitting I have, I can see
the title, you know the subjectline and the sales and so I'm
looking back at those and I'mgoing what are some of my bigger
seller?
You know, obviously, when Ihave something available,
sometimes it's just like CopperRiver is open and you know money
(15:48):
falls from the sky and so it'slike sometimes I'm just
announcing something.
I get that.
But there's other times that Ican definitely see a message hit
with my audience.
One of our biggest emails onesummer was you know, everybody
talks about limitation.
Oh, you got to make it limitedand blah, blah, blah.
But I sent this email about thebiggest salmon run on history.
You know, at Bristol Bay it'snot even our river, not where we
(16:08):
catch our fish, but it's thebiggest return of salmon in the
history of recording returns ofsalmon.
That's a huge deal.
That's a that means all thesustainability things we're
doing are working.
It's a really awesome messageand that was my biggest selling
email.
It wasn't even about our fish,but it resonated with people
like, wow, this is awesome, Ican buy this fish, it's not the
(16:31):
last fish on the planet, that'sgreat.
So it's understanding whatmessaging is resonating with
your audience.
So I think, looking back overthose emails and seeing what
worked and what didn't, soyou're really kind of
self-teaching yourself with yourown stuff.
And then also, when I'm writingan email and I'm not sure, I
just tell myself well, I'm justtrying something, I'm just going
(16:53):
to see.
It might not work, but it'll bedata, it'll be something I can
look at and something I can see.
So it gives myself a littlefreedom there.
And you send once a week, Isend on Mondays and that's the
other thing.
The next easiest way toincrease your revenue is just
send more emails.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I know, I mean it doesn't cost you any more to do
it.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
When I first started I would.
I just sent like a couple timesa month and it took me a couple
years to really be like okay,I'm going to send an email every
Monday and that's my thing, andI'm gonna do it every Monday
and I still missed a few.
But now I do a monthly giveaway.
So if you're on the list,you're eligible for the $50
coupon giveaway and that's oneemail a month.
(17:36):
That is very easy to write.
It's already written.
I just changed the name and sothat's my freebie for myself.
So I put it wherever I want it.
It doesn't matter what time ofthe month it's on.
I put it when I'm gonna be busy.
I get like a done for you emailthat week and so that's really.
That helps me just manage myown schedule.
And like I'm gonna be busy,it's giveaway week and so I mean
(18:05):
if there's two in a row,there's two in a row, you know
whatever.
But so I do once a week.
And then a year ago I added fishFridays.
So it's just a recipe, it's nostory.
I include a recipe I value, Isee it as like value to the
customer, and then I of courseinclude a link for that fish
that's in the recipe to purchase.
But there's no hard sell, it'sjust a recipe and then a link to
(18:26):
the fish with a description ofthe fish.
I also send that to my mostengaged audience, so the people
that are already reading myemails and enjoying my content.
So that helps because I getreally good open rates, which my
service providers like oh wow,you have really good open rates,
so people open it and thensometimes I have more purchases
on that one than my Monday email.
(18:48):
So you know you're just hittingpeople when they're ready for
the information.
They might store it, they mightlook at it later, they might
just increasing it.
What that did for me was itallowed me to go from one email
a week to two emails a weekwithout being much more
difficult.
Just sending more emails.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
It's going to make you more money Okay, so let me
ask you a crazy question how doyou feel when people unsubscribe
?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I feel nothing, I don't look at it, I don't worry
about it.
It's not for me.
That means they weren't goingto buy.
I pay for subscribers on mylist.
I don't want non-buyers, so ifpeople aren't going to buy, then
they can just get off, andthat's just been like a mindset.
You have to go there.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I love that mindset because, yes, if I personally
know the person, it tugs at myheartstrings but they weren't
going to buy, I don't need to bewasting my time sending them
emails.
They don't need to be wastingtime deleting my emails.
Right, having that narrowedlist really does help.
Right, because you actually getmore revenue.
(19:51):
Right, and higher open ratesand higher click rates and
everything goes higher as apercentage size of your list.
When the people that aren't theright fit get off of that list,
which I think is just soimportant, and I love that you
just don't even look at it.
It doesn't even bother becauseyou can't, right?
And I know that some people arelike, oh, I can't send that
(20:12):
often because people willunsubscribe.
So if they really like yourstuff, they're going to stay on
your list, even if they're likedelete.
You know, this week I'm toobusy to deal with it.
Right, the other people aren'tgonna they're not gonna buy from
you.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I mean, I sit on people's lists for a long time
and sometimes I unsubscribebecause my inbox is overflowing
blah blah and I and I'm, when Imake that choice, I'm thinking
I'm not going to buy from thelike, I don't need this.
I'm making that choice.
So, yeah, I would say, don'tworry about it.
And what's way more importantthan that because, on if you did
a really passionate email,maybe you'll get some
(20:47):
unsubscribes, but you might getsome people passionately loving
what you're saying, which ismore important.
But the numbers to watch arenot the unsubscribes.
I literally don't even look.
But your list needs to begrowing all the time and so you
just want those numbers to begoing up, whether it's
advertising or it's very tied tohow your business is doing so
(21:12):
in the background, you just wantto make sure your list is
always growing, even if it's aslow rate.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yes, I think that that is just so important, and I
love the fact that you sharedthis story with us on how you
10X your business with email,because you can do it right.
I mean, you're sending twoemails a week on fish.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Just, and I'm talking about fish.
I mean, what a weird topic,right Like, if I can send two
emails a week about fish.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Right, so I think that there's just so much
opportunity there.
I love that you took thatcreative creativity and took
building your email listseriously, because email is not
dead.
Email is still one of thehighest, if not the most
effective and efficient way tocommunicate with people, and
there are people that have optedin to get your emails, which is
(22:03):
amazing.
So I think that there's a lotof value here, and I really
appreciate everything that youshared today.
But before I let you go, I dohave to ask you the question
that I ask all of my guests, andthat is this show is called
Imperfect Marketing, becausemarketing is anything but a
perfect science.
What has been your biggestmarketing lesson learned?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
What's interesting is I never thought of myself as a
writer and in fact, I mean Idon't even like to write in
birthday cards before I startedthis business I still don't,
really I would make my husbanddo it I never thought of myself
as a writer and it was, you know, a couple of years into the
business when I had to reallymake the shift and realize that
owning a small business you're awriter, you are a writer, you
(22:46):
have a website, you are writing,you're doing copywriting.
I mean, you have an email list,you're emailing your customers,
you're doing social media Allof that is writing.
Just, you know, lean into it.
And it was when I said tomyself okay, I'm a writer like
this is a skill in my business,that it made a huge difference.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I love that.
So, for all of you listening,you are writers, so, whether or
not you enjoy it as much as youcould sort of not relevant
that's what you do.
It's a skill that you need foryour business and so, as you
identify your audience and youconnect with them connect with
them and build relationshipsthrough email, because there's
just so much value that you cancreate with them and just such a
(23:25):
strong relationship you cancreate with them.
Again, I love that you sell inevery email.
Again, not a super hard sell,at least a link to where to buy
your products.
Make it easy to work with youif people wanna work with you
right.
So just amazing conversation.
Thank you again so much foryour time.
I really appreciate it.
I was so excited when I heardthat you were available to be on
(23:49):
the show and I think thatthere's a lot here that
hopefully everybody listening orwatching got out of it.
Until next time.
Thank you all for tuning in.
Have a great rest of your day.
Hi, I'm Kendra Korman .
If you're a coach, consultantor marketer, you know marketing
is far from a perfect scienceand that's why this show is
called Imperfect Marketing.
Join me and my guests as weexplore how to grow your
business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned
along the way.
Hello, and welcome back toanother episode of Imperfect
(00:27):
Marketing.
I'm your host, Kendra Korman,and I am really, really excited,
like I was super excited when Igot an email about Sina Wheeler
, who is the founder of sinaccom.
Okay, and I just love the factthat you 10X'd your business by
writing better emails, which isjust amazing.
(00:48):
But before we jump into that,why don five generations?
But my parents say you know?
Speaker 2 (01:07):
probably 500, because my grandfather immigrated from
Norway.
He learned to commercially fishfrom his father, who learned
from his father, who learnedfrom his father.
So we're a fishing family.
We live in Washington state andwe fish up in Alaska and my
husband's a fisherman because hemarried in.
My dad was a fisherman becausehe married in.
So really we're sort of like mymom and I are like fishing
(01:30):
wives we just bring it, find thefisherman.
So my husband sort of marriedinto this and he's a fisherman
and so he's been doing that forover 20 years.
So we have a long history offish.
I have a master's degree in foodscience and I worked in
industry like regular normalnon-fish industry.
(01:50):
I studied fish and got mymaster's degree in fish and
omega-3 content and all that.
But I just worked for like abaked goods, you know, and for
10 years, and so that gave me alot of good.
I loved it.
I worked in a lab.
It was very like food science,like I wore a lab coat, it was
very cool.
And then I stayed home to, youknow, with our third child and
so I'd been home for a couple ofyears and my husband was
(02:13):
fishing and I've, you know, Istudied on board handling
techniques compared to sensory.
So I'm telling him all you know, like you have to do this and
you have to do that, like wehave, literally.
And he's catching Copper River,sockeye and King, like he's
catching the best fish on theplanet and he's handling it the
best you can possibly handle it.
(02:34):
And so one day we're on a roadtrip or going to Thanksgiving
and I'm, and he's on themarketing committee for Copper
River, which is like CopperRiver is a big deal, and I'm
going like you should do thisand you should do that and you
should market it like this, youshould market it like grass fed
beef and it should be specialbecause of this, and blah, blah,
blah.
And he finally just turns to meand goes you should.
And I was like no, you should.
(02:55):
And he's like no, you shouldmarket my fish.
It's the best fish, and you knowwhy?
And why don't you tell peopleand why don't we just sell it?
And I was, and by the time wegot to Thanksgiving we told
everybody we're starting abusiness, it's called Seen a Sea
, and the crazy thing is thatwas Thanksgiving and by the
(03:15):
first of the year, you know, wereally did.
We started the business and wehad it going because he's going
to he leaves for fishing in thespring and it was like, all
right, well, go catch some fishand I'll sell it on our website.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
That is just such a cool story.
I love that.
I love the origins, I love thehistory, I love the passion.
I mean it truly.
You can tell that you'repassionate about more than just
the company, right?
You're actually passionateabout the science behind the
food and how it's done, and thatis so cool, all right.
(03:48):
So you started the company andthen you started an email list
right away.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
Yeah, you know, there's that moment like we got
the website going and weliterally I mean we had
champagne and we toast ourselveslike wow, we really did it.
And like we sit there and it'slike crickets.
I mean I don't know what weexpected.
Like we just expected that we'ddone the hard part and like
people would just show up and wehad no idea about marketing.
(04:14):
And so I was following anonline like class on how to set
up everything Right andthankfully because I had we were
living very rurally, I barelyeven had internet I had to watch
the videos like between eightat night and eight in the
morning and like wake up andwatch the videos.
I got three kids.
(04:34):
He's in Alaska.
I mean sometimes I'm like it'samazing that we pulled that off.
But you know, when you'repassionate, you do it Right.
And so the biggest thing waslike, oh, we didn't do the hard
part, that's the easy part, youknow, now we have to get people
to come, and part of my programwas, she said, set up an email
(04:54):
list, and I literally was likethis was 10 years ago.
I'm not on people's email listNow.
I'm very aware of what they are.
I didn't even know what it wasvery aware of what they are.
I didn't even know what it was.
I was like, okay, I'm just didit literally because step eight
do this.
And I'm like I told my websiteperson I guess I need an email
list, I don't know.
So I started sending and thenon the program, like now start
(05:18):
sending emails, and I'm like,okay, there's like 40 people on
my list and they're my ownfriends and family.
Okay, there's like 40 people onmy list and they're my own
friends and family.
So I emailed them.
So what I'm very thankful for isthat I did what I was told and
I started emailing them andthose emails were horrible.
Well, I just cringed thinkingabout them, you know.
(05:38):
But thank goodness I did thatand started where I started and
there was a few friends andfamily and they didn't hate me
for it.
They just like, oh, sina's socute, whatever, this is whatever
.
And it just I was able to keepa little bit of perspective,
(06:00):
like because my list was small.
I knew it was, it didn't matterthat much and it allowed me to
practice.
So by then our list just grewand grew and grew and it really
grew organically SEO and thingslike that, I guess.
Or people told their friends, Idon't know.
But we did have just steadygrowth and I just got better and
better at it.
And then I started takingcourses on how to write things
(06:21):
because I realized this is wheremy sales are coming from, right
away.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yes, 100%, and I love that you followed direction and
that you started an email list.
I got an email from someone, soI sent an email a couple months
ago now and it was if I was tostart over what I would do, and
one of the things that I woulddo is I would have started my
email list from the get-gorather than just I was.
(06:46):
I was very comfortable, right,I was getting referrals, my
business was growing.
I didn't have a big email listand I was like, yeah, I was like
I'm good, I don't really needthat.
But I made all my clients do itright, because I love email
marketing and I think that's oneof the most effective things.
But, of course, I didn't do itfor my business.
So that is just amazing thatyou did it for yours right from
(07:07):
the get go.
And just so you know, my firstemails were not so good.
My first podcast I don't evenwant to listen to those things
anymore.
Oh my gosh, they were so stiff.
And yes, so we all have tostart somewhere and I think that
it's good that we do and thatwe learn and get better as we go
.
So talk to me about why do youthink email marketing is
(07:28):
important to small businesses.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
It's definitely where I have the best connection with
my customers and because I'vebeen emailing and because my
emails, I've allowed myself tobe personal in the emails.
Like this is where I havelearned to express myself.
I can put it in an email Likesocial media doesn't.
I don't feel connected with mysocial media audience.
(07:51):
I post more content but I don'tfeel connected and I don't feel
like they know me.
But on my email audience, youknow I've talked about my kids
and this and that I mean I havemerged a lot because our
lifestyle does revolve aroundfish.
I mean you think, how can youtalk about fish?
I've talked about fish everyweek for 10 years and I've got
(08:14):
more to say, but I think it'sbecause it weaves our family in
so much, and so it's reallyabout the lifestyle.
You know, when Rich is coming,when he's going, what our kids
are doing.
They come out on the boat.
But I've also taken on thechallenge of, like, my son is a
wrestler and my husband's acoach when the off season, so
we're like a wrestling family.
It has nothing to do with fish,but if that's what I've done,
(08:36):
I'm doing all weekend, you know,and I got to write an email on
Monday.
It's like I would take thechallenge of like how can I
write about wrestling and have ahook, have a transition, make
it about fish, because I've sellin every single email and there
is a link to purchase fish inevery email and I judge every
email by how much it's sold.
I mean, that's what I'm, that'sthe point.
That's why I'm sending this toyou guys.
(08:58):
My audience.
I'm not trying to act like I'mnot selling fish, I am.
That's why I sent the email.
So I think that's part of ittoo, is having the confidence to
just yes, I am selling yousomething.
I'm going to tell this funstory, we're having a great time
, I'm going to transition it andI'm going to sell fish and I
feel fine about that.
Speaker 1 (09:17):
And I don't think there's anything wrong with
selling.
In every email I have peoplethat are uncomfortable selling.
You can still build aconnection and have some people
not buy.
It doesn't have to be a hardsell on every email right, you
can make that connection.
It doesn't have to be boring.
Speaker 2 (09:33):
It doesn't have to be .
Here's the five reasons youshould buy from me today.
So that's part of what I havetaken, that challenge of, like I
use the wrestling, but you knowit's like, well, how do I write
a fun story?
And you know, make it work, andthat's kind of the challenge
but it's, you know, writingabout your life or being
authentic.
I've had times that last year itwas my son again, he was
(09:56):
graduating, but right, we hadgraduation right at the same
time of our Copper River Salmonopener and we have all these
pre-orders and I mean there's,you know we didn't get all the
fish in time and things werejust like not going perfect.
And I wrote this email to mycustomers and it was like thank
(10:17):
you, thank you for being patient, thank you for being the best
customers Like this is a lot andwe are doing the best we can
and I appreciate you guys and Iappreciate everything and I had
a huge positive response from it.
And then I put a link and soldsome fish and I sold a lot of
fish and so I think that youknow having that connection and
(10:40):
going ahead and writing, youknow they understand and get to
know you, but always going aheadand putting that link in there.
I think of it this way, too, iswhen my friends talk about
something that they really like,the first thing I say to them
is send me the link.
Like I want to buy it and Iwant you to make that easy for
me.
And when they send me a textwith the link, I'm very
(11:01):
appreciative because they justsaved me a bunch of time to go
and look for it.
So I feel like if I'm gonnatalk about fish and then not put
a link in, that's almost likerude, that's almost like now, go
find it for yourself.
So I think of it as a timesaver and a nice thing to do is
(11:22):
to put a link to your products.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
It definitely is a time saver, and there are people
who want to buy your productright.
So just because you're emailingthem and building that
relationship again, that sellingpiece doesn't have to be hard.
You're making it convenientbecause you have something that
they want or need, and I thinkthat that's really important to
keep in mind, and I love how youphrase it that way, that, hey,
you're helping them by includingthat link.
(11:45):
So we talked about the factthat you don't wanna read your
early emails, and I'm rightthere with you.
I changed the email system so Idon't ever have to see that
again.
How do you get more comfortablewriting and creating that,
because that's not easy.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
What you're saying to do to create a connection
between wrestling and fish,right, I think, just doing it
honestly, just taking the timeto do it.
And then I've also worked at it, so I've taken some courses on
copywriting, so I've, you know,incorporated some of that and I
found that, oh, when Iincorporate some of this, I can
do better, I can write better.
(12:22):
So it's this actual skill.
And then, through thatexperience of taking some
copywriting courses, I nowfollow copywriters and I'm on
their email list and I receivetheir emails and I read them,
and so I actually, just fromreading other people's emails
people that do a really good jobI think that that can be kind
(12:44):
of inspiring.
It's like you're not going todo the exact same thing, but
you're hearing their tone,you're seeing the way they're
writing, and that can help a lot.
So I think just putting alittle bit of effort into the
world of copywriting andfollowing some experts and
reading their stuff can make areal big difference.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Yes, I had a copywriting coach, I think last
year.
No, it feels like forever ago,but anyway, last year for a
majority of the year, and it wasamazing.
I mean, I've written my wholelife.
I actually consider myself agood writer, but sometimes too
close to my business and so Idon't make the connections that
I should.
I don't always sell as much asI should, right, because it's my
(13:24):
business, and so it's differentand it's a little bit harder
and things like that.
And so making that effort, Ithink, is huge, and figuring out
what you like to read, right,what are you connecting with,
and then how can you take thoselessons and apply them to what
you want to do.
So I love that.
Are there any copywriters thatyou recommend we follow?
(13:46):
Oh, I'm going to blank on theirnames.
Oh, jump on our email list.
Speaker 2 (13:50):
Of course, her group is the Shrimp Club.
Shrimpers and I'm trying tothink of Laura Belgray.
Yes, she's really good, and shesells products of copywriting.
And I'm trying to think ofLaura Belgray yes, she's really
good, and so, and she sellsproducts of copywriting and I've
taken some of her courses andshe's really good.
And just having just her stylelike you don't want to open with
a big paragraph, people aregoing to look at that and
(14:11):
they're just not even going towant to invest in reading it and
that's just the way it is.
People that looks like work,and so even just putting spaces
in and just cutting out somewords, you don't need these
lengthy sentences, people justwant to dive right in and have
it very digestible.
So I think making it reallylooking for easy to read.
(14:32):
When I took Laura's courses, itwas all about the red pen, just
like write it and then take mostof it out.
And when I that was years ago,like I found that I was taking
out my intro paragraph everysingle time.
I actually still write it.
Sometimes it helps me sit downand go like, because I did this
last week, now I'm talking toyou about this and blah, blah,
(14:55):
blah, blah, blah, and then Istart writing and then when I
edit I'm like, okay, yeah, justdelete that whole first
paragraph.
Nobody cares why I'm writingthis.
Yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
It's what's in it for me as the reader, right, so
they don't necessarily careabout the why behind it all the
time.
So let's talk about growingyour list and your revenue per
email, because you determine thesuccess of an email not by
opens or by clicks, but by sales, which I think is amazing.
Speaker 2 (15:21):
I use Klaviyo, I used to use MailChimp, but either
one you get a number on.
You know, I have a link ineveryone, like I said, and I
have a sales number so I knowwhat's hitting I have, I can see
the title, you know the subjectline and the sales and so I'm
looking back at those and I'mgoing what are some of my bigger
seller?
You know, obviously, when Ihave something available,
sometimes it's just like CopperRiver is open and you know money
(15:48):
falls from the sky and so it'slike sometimes I'm just
announcing something.
I get that.
But there's other times that Ican definitely see a message hit
with my audience.
One of our biggest emails onesummer was you know, everybody
talks about limitation.
Oh, you got to make it limitedand blah, blah, blah.
But I sent this email about thebiggest salmon run on history.
You know, at Bristol Bay it'snot even our river, not where we
(16:08):
catch our fish, but it's thebiggest return of salmon in the
history of recording returns ofsalmon.
That's a huge deal.
That's a that means all thesustainability things we're
doing are working.
It's a really awesome messageand that was my biggest selling
email.
It wasn't even about our fish,but it resonated with people
like, wow, this is awesome, Ican buy this fish, it's not the
(16:31):
last fish on the planet, that'sgreat.
So it's understanding whatmessaging is resonating with
your audience.
So I think, looking back overthose emails and seeing what
worked and what didn't, soyou're really kind of
self-teaching yourself with yourown stuff.
And then also, when I'm writingan email and I'm not sure, I
just tell myself well, I'm justtrying something, I'm just going
(16:53):
to see.
It might not work, but it'll bedata, it'll be something I can
look at and something I can see.
So it gives myself a littlefreedom there.
And you send once a week, Isend on Mondays and that's the
other thing.
The next easiest way toincrease your revenue is just
send more emails.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I know, I mean it doesn't cost you any more to do
it.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
When I first started I would.
I just sent like a couple timesa month and it took me a couple
years to really be like okay,I'm going to send an email every
Monday and that's my thing, andI'm gonna do it every Monday
and I still missed a few.
But now I do a monthly giveaway.
So if you're on the list,you're eligible for the $50
coupon giveaway and that's oneemail a month.
(17:36):
That is very easy to write.
It's already written.
I just changed the name and sothat's my freebie for myself.
So I put it wherever I want it.
It doesn't matter what time ofthe month it's on.
I put it when I'm gonna be busy.
I get like a done for you emailthat week and so that's really.
That helps me just manage myown schedule.
And like I'm gonna be busy,it's giveaway week and so I mean
(18:05):
if there's two in a row,there's two in a row, you know
whatever.
But so I do once a week.
And then a year ago I added fishFridays.
So it's just a recipe, it's nostory.
I include a recipe I value, Isee it as like value to the
customer, and then I of courseinclude a link for that fish
that's in the recipe to purchase.
But there's no hard sell, it'sjust a recipe and then a link to
(18:26):
the fish with a description ofthe fish.
I also send that to my mostengaged audience, so the people
that are already reading myemails and enjoying my content.
So that helps because I getreally good open rates, which my
service providers like oh wow,you have really good open rates,
so people open it and thensometimes I have more purchases
on that one than my Monday email.
(18:48):
So you know you're just hittingpeople when they're ready for
the information.
They might store it, they mightlook at it later, they might
just increasing it.
What that did for me was itallowed me to go from one email
a week to two emails a weekwithout being much more
difficult.
Just sending more emails.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
It's going to make you more money Okay, so let me
ask you a crazy question how doyou feel when people unsubscribe
?
Speaker 2 (19:12):
I feel nothing, I don't look at it, I don't worry
about it.
It's not for me.
That means they weren't goingto buy.
I pay for subscribers on mylist.
I don't want non-buyers, so ifpeople aren't going to buy, then
they can just get off, andthat's just been like a mindset.
You have to go there.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
I love that mindset because, yes, if I personally
know the person, it tugs at myheartstrings but they weren't
going to buy, I don't need to bewasting my time sending them
emails.
They don't need to be wastingtime deleting my emails.
Right, having that narrowedlist really does help.
Right, because you actually getmore revenue.
(19:51):
Right, and higher open ratesand higher click rates and
everything goes higher as apercentage size of your list.
When the people that aren't theright fit get off of that list,
which I think is just soimportant, and I love that you
just don't even look at it.
It doesn't even bother becauseyou can't, right?
And I know that some people arelike, oh, I can't send that
(20:12):
often because people willunsubscribe.
So if they really like yourstuff, they're going to stay on
your list, even if they're likedelete.
You know, this week I'm toobusy to deal with it.
Right, the other people aren'tgonna they're not gonna buy from
you.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
I mean, I sit on people's lists for a long time
and sometimes I unsubscribebecause my inbox is overflowing
blah blah and I and I'm, when Imake that choice, I'm thinking
I'm not going to buy from thelike, I don't need this.
I'm making that choice.
So, yeah, I would say, don'tworry about it.
And what's way more importantthan that because, on if you did
a really passionate email,maybe you'll get some
(20:47):
unsubscribes, but you might getsome people passionately loving
what you're saying, which ismore important.
But the numbers to watch arenot the unsubscribes.
I literally don't even look.
But your list needs to begrowing all the time and so you
just want those numbers to begoing up, whether it's
advertising or it's very tied tohow your business is doing so
(21:12):
in the background, you just wantto make sure your list is
always growing, even if it's aslow rate.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yes, I think that that is just so important, and I
love the fact that you sharedthis story with us on how you
10X your business with email,because you can do it right.
I mean, you're sending twoemails a week on fish.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Just, and I'm talking about fish.
I mean, what a weird topic,right Like, if I can send two
emails a week about fish.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Right, so I think that there's just so much
opportunity there.
I love that you took thatcreative creativity and took
building your email listseriously, because email is not
dead.
Email is still one of thehighest, if not the most
effective and efficient way tocommunicate with people, and
there are people that have optedin to get your emails, which is
(22:03):
amazing.
So I think that there's a lotof value here, and I really
appreciate everything that youshared today.
But before I let you go, I dohave to ask you the question
that I ask all of my guests, andthat is this show is called
Imperfect Marketing, becausemarketing is anything but a
perfect science.
What has been your biggestmarketing lesson learned?
Speaker 2 (22:23):
What's interesting is I never thought of myself as a
writer and in fact, I mean Idon't even like to write in
birthday cards before I startedthis business I still don't,
really I would make my husbanddo it I never thought of myself
as a writer and it was, you know, a couple of years into the
business when I had to reallymake the shift and realize that
owning a small business you're awriter, you are a writer, you
(22:46):
have a website, you are writing,you're doing copywriting.
I mean, you have an email list,you're emailing your customers,
you're doing social media Allof that is writing.
Just, you know, lean into it.
And it was when I said tomyself okay, I'm a writer like
this is a skill in my business,that it made a huge difference.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I love that.
So, for all of you listening,you are writers, so, whether or
not you enjoy it as much as youcould sort of not relevant
that's what you do.
It's a skill that you need foryour business and so, as you
identify your audience and youconnect with them connect with
them and build relationshipsthrough email, because there's
just so much value that you cancreate with them and just such a
(23:25):
strong relationship you cancreate with them.
Again, I love that you sell inevery email.
Again, not a super hard sell,at least a link to where to buy
your products.
Make it easy to work with youif people wanna work with you
right.
So just amazing conversation.
Thank you again so much foryour time.
I really appreciate it.
I was so excited when I heardthat you were available to be on
(23:49):
the show and I think thatthere's a lot here that
hopefully everybody listening orwatching got out of it.
Until next time.
Thank you all for tuning in.
Have a great rest of your day.
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