September 25, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode of Imperfect Marketing, I sit down with Alex Love—VP of Marketing and Communications, adjunct professor, and co-host of the podcast Mastering the Art of Failing. We dive into her unexpected journey into marketing, the lessons learned from failure, and the art of building small but mighty teams.
Alex shares how her career evolved from writing grants at a nonprofit to leading marketing teams and teaching the next generation of marketers. We explore:
The Power of Learning and Teaching
- Why a love of learning keeps marketers adaptable and relevant
- How Alex turned her passion for education into a teaching role at GW
- The challenges (and joys) of engaging students who just want to “check the box”
Lessons in Failure and Resilience
- The rise and fall of Digital District, a pioneering social media community
- Why Alex considers it both her biggest success and her biggest failure
- How failure becomes fuel for future opportunities and growth
Building and Leading Lean Teams
- Why relationship-building is the secret weapon of small marketing departments
- The importance of hiring for ambition and drive over technical skills alone
- How to communicate that no single marketer can “do it all”
- Why outsourcing and specialized support free teams to focus on strategy
Creativity, Risk-Taking, and Viral Wins
- How one “crazy idea” born on a dog walk turned into an award-winning campaign
- Why sometimes the riskiest ideas resonate the most with your audience
- Redefining what “going viral” really means for niche organizations
Key Takeaways for Marketers
- Marketing is as much about relationships as it is about tactics
- Lean teams thrive when curiosity and problem-solving lead the way
- Failure is inevitable—but also invaluable in shaping future success
- Sometimes the boldest, quirkiest ideas lead to the greatest impact
Whether you’re a solo marketer, part of a lean team, or leading communications at a larger organization, this conversation is full of insights into how to stay creative, scrappy, and resilient in an ever-changing landscape.
Connect with Alex Love:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexslove/
Website: https://rivasolutionsinc.com/
🎧 Ready to rethink failure and lean into creativity? Tune in now to hear Alex’s inspiring journey and actionable lessons.
Looking to leverage AI? Want better results? Want to think about what you want to leverage?
Check and see how I am using it for FREE on YouTube.
From "Holy cow, it can do that?" to "Wait, how does this work again?" – I've got all your AI curiosities covered. It's the perfect after-podcast snack for your tech-hungry brain.
Watch here
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Kendra Korman .
If you're a coach, consultantor marketer, you know marketing
is far from a perfect science,and that's why this show is
called Imperfect Marketing.
Join me and my guests as weexplore how to grow your
business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned
along the way.
All right, hello and welcomeback to another episode of
(00:28):
Imperfect Marketing.
I'm your host, kendra Korman,and today I am joined by Alex,
who is a VP of Marketing andCommunications I believe right
and a host of her own podcast,mastering the Art of Failing,
which, in perfect marketing,failing totally get it.
Love it, so welcome.
(00:49):
Thank you so much for being onthe show.
Why don't you tell me a littlebit about how you got into
marketing?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, of course.
Thanks so much for having me.
It was an accident, I'll behonest.
It wasn't something that I haveany degrees in in any sort of
capacity.
My undergraduate I was a littlebit aimless.
I love school and I lovelearning, but you know I have a
bachelor's degree in likepolitical science and
international relations, so nottoo much I could do with that
(01:15):
outside of getting into politics, which I learned pretty quickly
in my undergraduate career thatthat was just not a career path
for me, and so I started totake internships that were kind
of tangential to that.
I had the opportunity to go toWashington DC to do a summer
abroad between my junior andsenior year and I worked at an
(01:36):
organization that was doing sortof get out the vote for youth
movements and I worked in theirgrants and development
department because one of theskill sets that I have and
really love is writing.
So it was an opportunity for meto see how can I translate some
of my writing into a careerafter I graduate.
Working in that department Igot to experience a lot of, at
(01:57):
the time, up-and-coming socialmedia, so I'll update myself a
little bit, but these were newernetworks that were coming out
when I was in college and highschool and so you know, the
interns at the time really gotthe stamp of hey, you use this
Facebook thing or use, you knowat the time, this Twitter thing
and can you help sort of figureout how we write content for
this.
So it's one of those thingsthat I use personally and I
really enjoyed at the time,twitter and Facebook and things
(02:19):
like that.
So every internship that I tookmy senior year I got more and
more involved in marketing andcommunications because, again,
at that time it really wasn'tsomething that was built into
digital marketing, it was stillvery much traditional methods
and people were like we don'tknow what to do with these.
So you know, when I graduated Ihad the opportunity to come
back to DC and sort of figureout what I want to do next, and
so I was still kind of unsure.
(02:41):
But I had some experiencewriting grants and sort of
raising funds for organizations.
So I had the opportunity to joina nonprofit and I had the
opportunity to have a split role.
So on paper I wrote grantapplications and I helped with
raising funds for a localhomeless shelter, but they had
no one who was doing anycommunications or sort of
outreach to the community toraise awareness or build a brand
(03:01):
for them, and so it wassomething that I found an
opportunity to say, hey, I kindof like doing these things too.
There's a gap for me.
Let me have a little bit moreof an opportunity to work on
some creative things, because ifyou've ever written a grant
application, they are likesquare, peg, round hole, and
that's just not how my brainworks.
So I really found myselfenjoying that creative side of
the house, and so after twoyears, it was very clear to me I
(03:23):
was not meant to write grantapplications.
I was certainly very sold onthe social media side of things
and marketing side of things,and so, two years into my career
, I took my first job as asocial media manager and I
haven't really looked back.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
That's amazing.
So I love your passion forlearning.
I am very passionate aboutlearning myself.
I was just talking to someonethe other day.
They said are you thinkingabout like getting future
degrees?
And I was like if I could go toschool all day, every day, I
would and I'd be happy camper.
So I love, I love learning andthat's a big piece of what I
love about marketing, too, isyou're always learning, so
(03:58):
what's something that you'veyou've learned recently.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well, I'm learning to be the educator on that side.
So, to your point, I alsoreally love school and when I
finished my master's degree Iwas really sad that I was done
and had to go back to theworkforce first for a time.
But one of the things I've beenable to do on the side is help
to mentor some of the studentswho are coming through.
Both of university programs Icame through, so this is sort of
a lesson in always ask thequestion and always ask for the
opportunity.
Speaking to an alumni advisor atGW and made a joke that my last
(04:30):
name is Love and I would beremiss if I didn't go back to
get my doctorate so I could beDr Love, and she kind of looked
at me and said, well, you don'tneed a doctorate to teach.
And I said please tell me moreabout that.
So I'm really excited.
I'm actually going to go backnext spring to be an adjunct
professor in teacher marketingclass at GW and I'm really,
really excited.
And so that's what I'mrelearning is how do you
(04:51):
structure learning?
And then how do I translatethat into a younger generation?
So, while I do manage Gen Z andI have a Gen Alpha, my daughter
is only 18 months, so she's notquite there yet.
So I'm kind of learning.
How do I structure things thatmake sense?
How do I translate the realworld experience that I have
into something that's reallycool and my students can take?
(05:14):
You know these opportunities tosay, hey, I want to pursue
marketing.
This is something that I wantto learn more about, or at least
it's just knowledge for them ifthey go into general business
or sort of whatever they do withtheir lives.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, so I'm adjunct faculty at a local university.
I've been adjunct faculty for along, long time now at
different colleges anduniversities in my local area,
so it is super fun and sofulfilling and you don't need a
PhD for it.
So I do not have mine.
I'd love to get mine, but Idon't.
Yes, and yours fits perfectlywith the last name.
(05:46):
I agree a hundred percent.
Let's talk a little bit aboutand I will tell you, other than
that, that that is a biglearning curve on how to get
them engaged and wanting to doit, because so much is just
check the box, right To get thatdegree and get out and doing
what they want to do.
So it's a lot of fun butdefinitely challenging.
(06:08):
So I wish you luck in yourendeavors.
So let's talk about yourpodcast Master the Art of
Failing.
So I'm a big fan.
I believe marketing is anythingbut a perfect science, right?
Talk about a situation whereyou've been that maybe there was
a failure because I don'tnecessarily believe that they're
all failures, right, but theyend up turning into successes.
How do you talk about that?
(06:30):
How do you tie that into yourpodcast?
Tell me more.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
So my former business partner and I so after.
So I'll step back a little bit.
So about a decade ago, when Iwas getting into the marketing
field and social media wasreally new, I joined a
professional developmentorganization that was focused on
helping sort of give legitimacyto this platform of social
media.
And, like I said, you know theinterns, the young people at the
(06:53):
time, were the ones gettingthese roles.
But we all know now it is avery legitimate platform and you
do have to figure out how towork this into your marketing
portfolio.
So we stood up thisorganization called Digital
District at the time, which wasaimed at doing just that, which
was saying like hey, we'remarketers, this has a platform.
Let's figure out how do we takethis out of the intern world,
(07:14):
out of the I do this for fun andgive people the training and
the opportunity to talk to otherpeople who are going through
this exact process, to eitherbring it into their
organizations or just be able toformalize it within, you know,
the portfolios that they manage.
So we have these grand plans.
To you know, once we had ourchapter rolling, we had like 30
volunteers.
We had a full calendar ofnetworking events.
(07:37):
You know we're gettingsponsorship dollars, we're doing
a really great job at curatingour community locally.
My business partner and I said,hey, let's think about how do
we expand this and take this todifferent cities.
But what we quickly found outwas that, you know, first off we
were doing this for free.
So it's very hard toincentivize people to take on
the level of work that we weredoing, to be able to replace
(07:59):
ourselves, to run successfullythe DC chapter, for us to be
able to focus on other citiesand launching similar
communities.
So very quickly we realized wehad no idea how to do this
without ourselves in the picture.
And as soon as we went to youknow focus elsewhere, it kind of
all buckled and fell down.
But it was a really cool two orthree year ride and I got the
(08:20):
opportunity to do a crazy amountof things and just a lot of
experience that you know,someone who is 23, 24, 25 just
has no business doing some ofthese things.
You know, I got invited to givelike speeches at like really
big corporations and did youknow keynotes and stood up
training programs and all ofthese things where I'm like I
(08:41):
have no idea what I'm doing, butI'm really good at faking it
right.
I'm faking it till you make it.
So it's a really cool ride.
And, you know, after a couple ofyears, my business partner
moved out of the DC area and Iwent back to college to get my
MBA, and so it was just one ofthose things that naturally, you
know, we just didn't have theinfrastructure to support, and
so we closed it down after acouple of years.
And two years ago he came backto me and said hey, I have an
(09:03):
idea for a podcast.
And I said cool, what betterway to start something new?
When he had just had his firstchild and I was about seven
months pregnant with mine.
So I said we're both about tobe new parents, let's do
something new together.
But he brought the concept to meand I said I absolutely love it
, because I'm one of thosepeople who has historically been
very type A, very perfectionist, and so thinking about being
(09:26):
bad at something or talkingabout failures is just so
uncomfortable for me personally,which meant that that was.
Other people could benefit fromthat.
So I said let's start with ourown story, because I consider a
digital district our biggestsuccess, but also my biggest
failure.
At the end of the day, the goalthat we set up to do, which was
to build this huge organizationand launch other communities,
we miserably failed at.
But we had a really good runfor our chapter and learned so
(09:49):
many things about myself, aboutmanagement, about building,
building businesses, which isultimately what led me to go
back and get my master's,because I understood there's a
lot of things I just don't knowand I need to understand these
if I'm going to be successfuldoing this again.
So it's a really coolopportunity to speak with
individuals who had a grandvision and said, hey, I'm going
to be the next rock star, or I'mgoing to be, you know, a
(10:11):
podcast host, or I'm going to dothis, and then, ultimately, it
just doesn't work out.
But at the end of the day, mostof these people have ended up
in such better places andlooking back, I think, is always
much easier to say.
Once you're a little bitfurther away from the failure,
you can point and say, hey,maybe this isn't what I
envisioned my life or the paththat I thought that I was going
(10:32):
to be on, but look at all thethings and all the successes and
all the people and all theopportunities I got along the
way.
And now you know, I'm able tobe successful in a different
right, which is something that Ididn't envision for myself.
So I think, to your point,there's no failures, as long as
you're willing to learn from itand pivot, I think everything is
an opportunity to start fresh.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I agree.
I think that there's a muchbigger plan for all of us and we
don't see it because we're soclose to it so often.
But how things work out is justamazing, right?
I mean, I can look back to justjobs that I didn't get,
positions that I didn't receive,and, looking back, I'm like
(11:11):
thank goodness I didn't get that, because I would have gone down
an entirely different path andwould not be where I'm at right
now and I like where I'm atright and I like what I do.
So that's really important.
All right, so let's talk alittle bit about small, lean
marketing communications teams.
Right, that's where youspecialize.
(11:31):
I always like to say I'm arecession style marketer,
because I came up during headinginto the Great Recession, when
I was going through everything,so my job was to cut budgets,
get out of contracts and a lotof different things, so I had to
get creative with not a lot offunds in the beginning.
Talk to me a little bit abouthow you build these lean, small
teams and what you've learnedfrom that.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of that now, so
supporting government contractswhere we're trying to do a lot
more with a lot less, and that'sjust the world that we're
living in right now.
So, yeah, I spent most of mycareer out small to midsize
organizations and, depending onsort of a vision and the CEO,
you know, marketing is notalways a top priority for
individuals, so pretty used tobeing an afterthought or sort of
(12:16):
one person can handle all ofthis, but those of us who work
in marketing know there are alot of skill sets that exist
within a marketing team and youcan't expect one person to be a
copywriter, a graphic designer,a video editor.
You know all of these thingsrolled into one.
And, of course, you know thereare multi-stack marketers who
can do pieces of everything.
But you do need a variety ofskill sets to be successful.
(12:38):
So I've been in the positionwhere I'm a one-woman show, and
that is very difficult because,again, you also have to borrow a
lot of knowledge and time fromother individuals in the
organization.
I can't go out and marketsomething that doesn't exist,
and so I have to work and buildrelationships with our solutions
teams or specialists or figureout what products we're offering
, what services we're offering.
(12:59):
So you need a lot of buy-in,and what I've learned is
probably more on therelationship side of the house.
It's so key to be able to buildrelationships and build trust
with individuals within theorganization and then also your
customer base too, because, as Isaid, ultimately at the end of
the day, I don't have anythingto market if people aren't
willing to engage with me, andso I've spent a lot of time sort
(13:20):
of figuring out how do I makeother people's jobs easier,
which will ultimately make myjob easier, because when I go
back and say, the marketing girlis here for content or I'm here
to ask you to do this, peopleare more willing to engage, and
so that is probably one of thecore skill sets that I look for
when I look to add to my teamand currently, you know, we just
(13:40):
went from a team of four to ateam of three because of you
know, the situation and theenvironment which we're in with
government contracting is,budgets are getting slashed and
positions are getting eliminatedand so I think the number one
thing I'm looking for is someonewho has the drive to learn, who
wants to make an impact, who isa can-do problem solver.
(14:01):
You can teach a lot of skills,but it's very difficult to teach
that ambition and drive side ofthe house, and so I've been the
most successful building myteam and keeping it small, with
individuals who are willing tolearn and make an impact,
because, at the end of the day,we're here as a creative, shared
service for the rest of theorganization, and so we have to
look at ourselves as how do Imake everyone else's job easier
(14:23):
so I can get my job today?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Well, I think there's so much important stuff in
there that you're talking about.
So one is it's the learningright.
You're constantly learning.
You're learning new thingsbecause you have to learn about
the products, about what'schanging right, about the
customer, and that feeds intoyour passion for learning.
For sure.
That relationship building isso important because everybody
(14:46):
is the first to blame marketingright when it doesn't go right,
but they're also the last togive marketing time unless you
have those relationships.
One of my previous bosses, longlong time ago, used to call me
the shell answer woman, becauseI had so many relationships
throughout the corporation thatI could get almost any question
answered or find the resource,because I had built just a
(15:09):
ridiculous network of, like webof people that I always wanted
to learn new things from.
So that's really good.
And then one of my interns Itold them in marketing, one of
the key skills you need to learnis stalking.
And he kept coming back to hisdesk and I'm like, did you get
the information?
And he's like, no, not.
Yet he says he's too busy rightnow.
I said, okay, take a book andsit outside his office.
(15:33):
I don't really care what you do, but we need that information
today because we've been waitingfor it for a week and he's been
too busy for a week.
You need to sit outside hisoffice and I remember on the
exit interview I'm like, sowhat's the biggest skill you
learned for marketing?
He goes stalking, gets thingsdone, so yeah.
So it's really importantbecause you have to have that
drive, because there are so manybottlenecks to getting things
(15:58):
done.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
And we're remote for the most part.
So it's a little bit harder toyour point that you know, when I
was in the office full timebefore COVID, I could knock on
somebody's door, you know,attack them when they got back
from a client meeting and belike, hey, you owe me edits on
this.
Relationships matter even morebecause it's so easy to ignore
(16:19):
all the chats and emails thatyou have that are building up,
because there's just so manythings that are on everyone's
table that I don't have as manyinteraction points.
To go up to someone personallyand say, like you put a hole in
my content calendar because thisblog isn't done, which then you
know has a cascading effect andpeople don't think about it
that way and they shouldn't haveto.
That's not their job.
But yeah, building thoserelationships, finding those
(16:44):
opportunities that when we arein person, to make sure that
individuals will answer the callwhen I do put those out but
yeah, stalking is definitely avery critical marketing skill
and has served me very well inthe organizations that I've
supported.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
One of the other things that we were talking
about was the team right, sothere are so many different
skill sets in marketing.
You know, when I was getting myMBA, we did a business plan and
I realized that 90% of thebusiness plan was the marketing
plan.
Right, so we've adoptedeverything except for the part
that goes to finance, and evensome of that we've adopted into
(17:16):
the marketing plan right.
So a marketing plan is, inessence, a business plan.
There's so many components andnot everybody can do everything
right, even as a one-woman showthat you've been before and I've
been before.
You still need additional skillsets, that you can be okay in a
(17:37):
lot of things, but you're notgreat at all of the things.
Right, and I think that's wherepeople get tripped oh, it's
just in Canva.
Oh, you can just use AI.
Right, and don't get me wrong,I love AI and I love Canva, but
I don't have a graphic artist'svision of what things can look
like and I can't put it togetherthat way.
And a lot of my clients likethey benefit because I have a
(18:01):
small team and by hiring methey're paying for less than a
full-time person.
But getting those three, fourskill sets right, and I think
that that's so important.
How have you learned since thebeginning, when you were the one
woman show, to communicate that, to explain to people that not
(18:21):
one person can do it all?
And I think that that's reallyimportant too, by the way, for
solopreneurs, coaches,consultants that are trying to
do all of the stuff themselvestoo.
You need to ask for helpsometimes, but how do you
communicate that to people?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I think the conversation has evolved since I
started my career because ofthe injection and tools
available now through AIplatforms.
You know, I didn't have Canvawhen I started out.
I wish I did, but you know,here I was trying to figure out
like to be good enough atInDesign or good enough at
PowerPoint to sort of get yourpoint across.
You know, I think it just comesdown to asking someone you know
(18:55):
, what's your vision, what'syour goal?
How do I get you there at theend of the day?
Because, again, as a marketer,you're really there to help
propel someone else's goal andsomeone else's vision for the
organization.
So I like to frame it that way,like I'm here to sort of be an
accelerator to what you want todo, and it's taken me a long
time in some organizations toget you know the funding or get
(19:16):
the buy-in.
Then I can't handle everythingBecause, to your point, you know
I am a little bit better atPowerPoint or a little bit
better at some of these thingsthan the average person, and so
I can get you a pretty goodversion.
But as soon as you add someonein, you know I'm lucky to have a
wonderful graphic designer onmy team, because that is one of
the specialized skill sets thatwe do absolutely need, even in
(19:37):
the world of AI, is that she'slike 100 times better and faster
too.
I think part of it is the tradeup on resources.
You know, if you want me to dothe PowerPoint for you, I
certainly can.
It will look fine, it will lookgreat, but it's going to take
me about four times longer thanit is someone else, and so I
think it's just that trade offof.
Would it make more sense tooutsource some of these things
(19:58):
that are more specialized skillsets, because this frees up my
time to do what I'm better at,which is the high-level strategy
or the vision, or sort of thebig picture thinking to help
support the brand.
And then, you know, havesomeone else take care of those
details who can be much quickerthan I can.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Well, and nowadays, with Upwork and Fiverr and
everything else, there's so manyresources for us to be able to
get access to skill sets atreasonable prices right that we
couldn't get before because youhad to hire a full-time person.
Now, maybe not all of them needto be full-time, right?
So I think that the landscapehas changed and I love how we
(20:37):
keep you know.
Talking back, I remember I wasthe Jeep advertising manager and
we had Facebook ads running atthe time and we had to have.
One of the other people at theoffice had a kid in college
because it was limited to eduemail addresses at the time, and
so we had to go to someone elsethat had a kid in college that
(20:58):
would give us their login toFacebook so we could see our ads
.
That's how far back I go withsocial media.
So it's yeah, we've come a longway from there, for sure.
Well, this has been an awesomeconversation.
I love how we've talked aboutlearning, your passion for
learning.
It really does cross over intoso much of marketing.
(21:21):
You know we've talked a littlebit about being, you know, lean
and scrappy, which I think isextremely important in today's
day and age, because evenoutside government contracts,
everybody needs to be lean andscrappy and creative, and I
think that the more that we doto do that, the better we are as
(21:42):
organizations, because we get alittle bit more creative.
You know, those big budgetssometimes are not all.
They're cracked up to me andthey really do limit our
creativity at times.
Before I let you go, I do haveto ask you the question that I
ask all of my guests, and thatis that the show is called
Imperfect Marketing, becausemarketing is anything but a
perfect science.
What has been your biggestmarketing lesson that learned
(22:05):
along the way?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I would say take the chance.
So you know, governmentmarketing not someplace that you
think cool or edgy campaignsbut I've had the ability to put
out some things that you knowour competitors would never and,
to be honest, were things Inever thought we would also put
out.
A couple of years ago we hadthe opportunity to put out a
video that was meant to beinternal.
(22:26):
You know, we had a contractthat went under protest for
quite a long time and so we justthought let's have a little bit
of fun with it with ourpartners, to thank them for
sticking around while you knowthe government was trying to
figure out what to do with thiscontract.
And so, you know, we played onthe Office parody like it's
happening meme, and we got acouple of people to shoot this
like ridiculous video.
And I'm originally from NewJersey, so you know the contract
(22:47):
was called Boss and so to meBoss is Bruce Springsteen and so
we had like a Bruce Springsteencameo, like it was just this
ridiculous video that wassupposed to poke fun at some
people.
And just again, thank peoplefor sticking around.
For the year and a half weplayed it at an internal meeting
with our partners and everyoneloved it and I was shocked by
(23:09):
that.
And then they said, well, whencan I share this on my networks?
And I was like so this is, likeyou know, well outside of what
we would typically publish.
I wasn't going to put it on oursocial media networks but, you
know, enough people came up tome and liked the video that I
said let's do it like why not?
Right.
And that was one of thosepivotal moments where I'm so
glad that I just kind of threwour strategy to the wind,
(23:31):
because not only was it likesuper well received and sort of
went viral in within our owncommunity, but for weeks and
months, you know, people wouldcome up to me at industry events
and reference the video and weactually ended up getting like
an award for it in terms ofgovernment innovation, and then
someone allowed me to give akeynote speech about it too.
So it's just one of those wildmoments where I'm like this was
(23:52):
a crazy idea that came out of awalk with my dog and just me
honestly not having enough timeto think about a proper
marketing campaign, because youknow, when you're a small team
and you've got competingpriorities, thinking about
things that are under protest isjust not top of mind, and so I
think that's my biggest takeawayis that most of the ideas that
are in my head are either geniusor terrible, and I always lead
(24:13):
with that when I'm talking to myteams, just to level set like,
hey, tell me if I'm wrong, tellme if this makes no sense, but
sometimes the crazy ones are thebest ideas.
And so you know, still checkwith your, make sure that it
checks some boxes and you knowyou're not gonna piss anybody
off with the content that youput out there.
But I definitely think that I'ma little bit more willing to
(24:34):
take some risks with ourmarketing because at the end of
the day, we sell services andwe're trying to connect with
people and there are a lot ofpop culture references in that
that.
You know people are behind theagencies that we support and
they were able to make aconnection point with that and
have a laugh, which I think weall need today.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
That's awesome, and I one of the things that I really
loved that you said is viralwithin our community, because,
well, no, but I think thatthat's so important, because
what viral means for mostorganizations, for most
companies, for most peopledoesn't necessarily mean a
billion views, right.
The industry.
That itself speaks volumes tothe fact that you didn't need a
(25:13):
billion, you know, views on someTikTok video, right, being
within that target audience madeeverything possible, and so I
think that that says volumes too.
(25:34):
So it's okay to be a littlecrazy, check it out with some of
your team, right, and do somedifferent things, because you
never know where it'll go.
Sometimes it is terrible, butsometimes it's genius and that's
pretty fun.
So, thank you, guys all so muchfor tuning in, listening or
watching.
If you learned something todayand I hope that you did please
rate and subscribe whereveryou're listening or watching If
(25:56):
you want to connect with Alex orcheck out her podcast.
The act of, or the art ofmastering the art of failing.
I'm sorry, it's like it helpsif I read the notes mastering
the art of failing, and thenwe'll have notes links to that
in the show notes also.
Thank you again so much forbeing here.
I really appreciate your timeand everybody.
Have a great rest of your day.
Hi, I'm Kendra Korman .
If you're a coach, consultantor marketer, you know marketing
is far from a perfect science,and that's why this show is
called Imperfect Marketing.
Join me and my guests as weexplore how to grow your
business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned
along the way.
All right, hello and welcomeback to another episode of
(00:28):
Imperfect Marketing.
I'm your host, kendra Korman,and today I am joined by Alex,
who is a VP of Marketing andCommunications I believe right
and a host of her own podcast,mastering the Art of Failing,
which, in perfect marketing,failing totally get it.
Love it, so welcome.
(00:49):
Thank you so much for being onthe show.
Why don't you tell me a littlebit about how you got into
marketing?
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, of course.
Thanks so much for having me.
It was an accident, I'll behonest.
It wasn't something that I haveany degrees in in any sort of
capacity.
My undergraduate I was a littlebit aimless.
I love school and I lovelearning, but you know I have a
bachelor's degree in likepolitical science and
international relations, so nottoo much I could do with that
(01:15):
outside of getting into politics, which I learned pretty quickly
in my undergraduate career thatthat was just not a career path
for me, and so I started totake internships that were kind
of tangential to that.
I had the opportunity to go toWashington DC to do a summer
abroad between my junior andsenior year and I worked at an
(01:36):
organization that was doing sortof get out the vote for youth
movements and I worked in theirgrants and development
department because one of theskill sets that I have and
really love is writing.
So it was an opportunity for meto see how can I translate some
of my writing into a careerafter I graduate.
Working in that department Igot to experience a lot of, at
(01:57):
the time, up-and-coming socialmedia, so I'll update myself a
little bit, but these were newernetworks that were coming out
when I was in college and highschool and so you know, the
interns at the time really gotthe stamp of hey, you use this
Facebook thing or use, you knowat the time, this Twitter thing
and can you help sort of figureout how we write content for
this.
So it's one of those thingsthat I use personally and I
really enjoyed at the time,twitter and Facebook and things
(02:19):
like that.
So every internship that I tookmy senior year I got more and
more involved in marketing andcommunications because, again,
at that time it really wasn'tsomething that was built into
digital marketing, it was stillvery much traditional methods
and people were like we don'tknow what to do with these.
So you know, when I graduated Ihad the opportunity to come
back to DC and sort of figureout what I want to do next, and
so I was still kind of unsure.
(02:41):
But I had some experiencewriting grants and sort of
raising funds for organizations.
So I had the opportunity to joina nonprofit and I had the
opportunity to have a split role.
So on paper I wrote grantapplications and I helped with
raising funds for a localhomeless shelter, but they had
no one who was doing anycommunications or sort of
outreach to the community toraise awareness or build a brand
(03:01):
for them, and so it wassomething that I found an
opportunity to say, hey, I kindof like doing these things too.
There's a gap for me.
Let me have a little bit moreof an opportunity to work on
some creative things, because ifyou've ever written a grant
application, they are likesquare, peg, round hole, and
that's just not how my brainworks.
So I really found myselfenjoying that creative side of
the house, and so after twoyears, it was very clear to me I
(03:23):
was not meant to write grantapplications.
I was certainly very sold onthe social media side of things
and marketing side of things,and so, two years into my career
, I took my first job as asocial media manager and I
haven't really looked back.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
That's amazing.
So I love your passion forlearning.
I am very passionate aboutlearning myself.
I was just talking to someonethe other day.
They said are you thinkingabout like getting future
degrees?
And I was like if I could go toschool all day, every day, I
would and I'd be happy camper.
So I love, I love learning andthat's a big piece of what I
love about marketing, too, isyou're always learning, so
(03:58):
what's something that you'veyou've learned recently.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Well, I'm learning to be the educator on that side.
So, to your point, I alsoreally love school and when I
finished my master's degree Iwas really sad that I was done
and had to go back to theworkforce first for a time.
But one of the things I've beenable to do on the side is help
to mentor some of the studentswho are coming through.
Both of university programs Icame through, so this is sort of
a lesson in always ask thequestion and always ask for the
opportunity.
Speaking to an alumni advisor atGW and made a joke that my last
(04:30):
name is Love and I would beremiss if I didn't go back to
get my doctorate so I could beDr Love, and she kind of looked
at me and said, well, you don'tneed a doctorate to teach.
And I said please tell me moreabout that.
So I'm really excited.
I'm actually going to go backnext spring to be an adjunct
professor in teacher marketingclass at GW and I'm really,
really excited.
And so that's what I'mrelearning is how do you
(04:51):
structure learning?
And then how do I translatethat into a younger generation?
So, while I do manage Gen Z andI have a Gen Alpha, my daughter
is only 18 months, so she's notquite there yet.
So I'm kind of learning.
How do I structure things thatmake sense?
How do I translate the realworld experience that I have
into something that's reallycool and my students can take?
(05:14):
You know these opportunities tosay, hey, I want to pursue
marketing.
This is something that I wantto learn more about, or at least
it's just knowledge for them ifthey go into general business
or sort of whatever they do withtheir lives.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Yeah, so I'm adjunct faculty at a local university.
I've been adjunct faculty for along, long time now at
different colleges anduniversities in my local area,
so it is super fun and sofulfilling and you don't need a
PhD for it.
So I do not have mine.
I'd love to get mine, but Idon't.
Yes, and yours fits perfectlywith the last name.
(05:46):
I agree a hundred percent.
Let's talk a little bit aboutand I will tell you, other than
that, that that is a biglearning curve on how to get
them engaged and wanting to doit, because so much is just
check the box, right To get thatdegree and get out and doing
what they want to do.
So it's a lot of fun butdefinitely challenging.
(06:08):
So I wish you luck in yourendeavors.
So let's talk about yourpodcast Master the Art of
Failing.
So I'm a big fan.
I believe marketing is anythingbut a perfect science, right?
Talk about a situation whereyou've been that maybe there was
a failure because I don'tnecessarily believe that they're
all failures, right, but theyend up turning into successes.
How do you talk about that?
(06:30):
How do you tie that into yourpodcast?
Tell me more.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
So my former business partner and I so after.
So I'll step back a little bit.
So about a decade ago, when Iwas getting into the marketing
field and social media wasreally new, I joined a
professional developmentorganization that was focused on
helping sort of give legitimacyto this platform of social
media.
And, like I said, you know theinterns, the young people at the
(06:53):
time, were the ones gettingthese roles.
But we all know now it is avery legitimate platform and you
do have to figure out how towork this into your marketing
portfolio.
So we stood up thisorganization called Digital
District at the time, which wasaimed at doing just that, which
was saying like hey, we'remarketers, this has a platform.
Let's figure out how do we takethis out of the intern world,
(07:14):
out of the I do this for fun andgive people the training and
the opportunity to talk to otherpeople who are going through
this exact process, to eitherbring it into their
organizations or just be able toformalize it within, you know,
the portfolios that they manage.
So we have these grand plans.
To you know, once we had ourchapter rolling, we had like 30
volunteers.
We had a full calendar ofnetworking events.
(07:37):
You know we're gettingsponsorship dollars, we're doing
a really great job at curatingour community locally.
My business partner and I said,hey, let's think about how do
we expand this and take this todifferent cities.
But what we quickly found outwas that, you know, first off we
were doing this for free.
So it's very hard toincentivize people to take on
the level of work that we weredoing, to be able to replace
(07:59):
ourselves, to run successfullythe DC chapter, for us to be
able to focus on other citiesand launching similar
communities.
So very quickly we realized wehad no idea how to do this
without ourselves in the picture.
And as soon as we went to youknow focus elsewhere, it kind of
all buckled and fell down.
But it was a really cool two orthree year ride and I got the
(08:20):
opportunity to do a crazy amountof things and just a lot of
experience that you know,someone who is 23, 24, 25 just
has no business doing some ofthese things.
You know, I got invited to givelike speeches at like really
big corporations and did youknow keynotes and stood up
training programs and all ofthese things where I'm like I
(08:41):
have no idea what I'm doing, butI'm really good at faking it
right.
I'm faking it till you make it.
So it's a really cool ride.
And, you know, after a couple ofyears, my business partner
moved out of the DC area and Iwent back to college to get my
MBA, and so it was just one ofthose things that naturally, you
know, we just didn't have theinfrastructure to support, and
so we closed it down after acouple of years.
And two years ago he came backto me and said hey, I have an
(09:03):
idea for a podcast.
And I said cool, what betterway to start something new?
When he had just had his firstchild and I was about seven
months pregnant with mine.
So I said we're both about tobe new parents, let's do
something new together.
But he brought the concept to meand I said I absolutely love it
, because I'm one of thosepeople who has historically been
very type A, very perfectionist, and so thinking about being
(09:26):
bad at something or talkingabout failures is just so
uncomfortable for me personally,which meant that that was.
Other people could benefit fromthat.
So I said let's start with ourown story, because I consider a
digital district our biggestsuccess, but also my biggest
failure.
At the end of the day, the goalthat we set up to do, which was
to build this huge organizationand launch other communities,
we miserably failed at.
But we had a really good runfor our chapter and learned so
(09:49):
many things about myself, aboutmanagement, about building,
building businesses, which isultimately what led me to go
back and get my master's,because I understood there's a
lot of things I just don't knowand I need to understand these
if I'm going to be successfuldoing this again.
So it's a really coolopportunity to speak with
individuals who had a grandvision and said, hey, I'm going
to be the next rock star, or I'mgoing to be, you know, a
(10:11):
podcast host, or I'm going to dothis, and then, ultimately, it
just doesn't work out.
But at the end of the day, mostof these people have ended up
in such better places andlooking back, I think, is always
much easier to say.
Once you're a little bitfurther away from the failure,
you can point and say, hey,maybe this isn't what I
envisioned my life or the paththat I thought that I was going
(10:32):
to be on, but look at all thethings and all the successes and
all the people and all theopportunities I got along the
way.
And now you know, I'm able tobe successful in a different
right, which is something that Ididn't envision for myself.
So I think, to your point,there's no failures, as long as
you're willing to learn from itand pivot, I think everything is
an opportunity to start fresh.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
I agree.
I think that there's a muchbigger plan for all of us and we
don't see it because we're soclose to it so often.
But how things work out is justamazing, right?
I mean, I can look back to justjobs that I didn't get,
positions that I didn't receive,and, looking back, I'm like
(11:11):
thank goodness I didn't get that, because I would have gone down
an entirely different path andwould not be where I'm at right
now and I like where I'm atright and I like what I do.
So that's really important.
All right, so let's talk alittle bit about small, lean
marketing communications teams.
Right, that's where youspecialize.
(11:31):
I always like to say I'm arecession style marketer,
because I came up during headinginto the Great Recession, when
I was going through everything,so my job was to cut budgets,
get out of contracts and a lotof different things, so I had to
get creative with not a lot offunds in the beginning.
Talk to me a little bit abouthow you build these lean, small
teams and what you've learnedfrom that.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of that now, so
supporting government contractswhere we're trying to do a lot
more with a lot less, and that'sjust the world that we're
living in right now.
So, yeah, I spent most of mycareer out small to midsize
organizations and, depending onsort of a vision and the CEO,
you know, marketing is notalways a top priority for
individuals, so pretty used tobeing an afterthought or sort of
(12:16):
one person can handle all ofthis, but those of us who work
in marketing know there are alot of skill sets that exist
within a marketing team and youcan't expect one person to be a
copywriter, a graphic designer,a video editor.
You know all of these thingsrolled into one.
And, of course, you know thereare multi-stack marketers who
can do pieces of everything.
But you do need a variety ofskill sets to be successful.
(12:38):
So I've been in the positionwhere I'm a one-woman show, and
that is very difficult because,again, you also have to borrow a
lot of knowledge and time fromother individuals in the
organization.
I can't go out and marketsomething that doesn't exist,
and so I have to work and buildrelationships with our solutions
teams or specialists or figureout what products we're offering
, what services we're offering.
(12:59):
So you need a lot of buy-in,and what I've learned is
probably more on therelationship side of the house.
It's so key to be able to buildrelationships and build trust
with individuals within theorganization and then also your
customer base too, because, as Isaid, ultimately at the end of
the day, I don't have anythingto market if people aren't
willing to engage with me, andso I've spent a lot of time sort
(13:20):
of figuring out how do I makeother people's jobs easier,
which will ultimately make myjob easier, because when I go
back and say, the marketing girlis here for content or I'm here
to ask you to do this, peopleare more willing to engage, and
so that is probably one of thecore skill sets that I look for
when I look to add to my teamand currently, you know, we just
(13:40):
went from a team of four to ateam of three because of you
know, the situation and theenvironment which we're in with
government contracting is,budgets are getting slashed and
positions are getting eliminatedand so I think the number one
thing I'm looking for is someonewho has the drive to learn, who
wants to make an impact, who isa can-do problem solver.
(14:01):
You can teach a lot of skills,but it's very difficult to teach
that ambition and drive side ofthe house, and so I've been the
most successful building myteam and keeping it small, with
individuals who are willing tolearn and make an impact,
because, at the end of the day,we're here as a creative, shared
service for the rest of theorganization, and so we have to
look at ourselves as how do Imake everyone else's job easier
(14:23):
so I can get my job today?
Speaker 1 (14:24):
Well, I think there's so much important stuff in
there that you're talking about.
So one is it's the learningright.
You're constantly learning.
You're learning new thingsbecause you have to learn about
the products, about what'schanging right, about the
customer, and that feeds intoyour passion for learning.
For sure.
That relationship building isso important because everybody
(14:46):
is the first to blame marketingright when it doesn't go right,
but they're also the last togive marketing time unless you
have those relationships.
One of my previous bosses, longlong time ago, used to call me
the shell answer woman, becauseI had so many relationships
throughout the corporation thatI could get almost any question
answered or find the resource,because I had built just a
(15:09):
ridiculous network of, like webof people that I always wanted
to learn new things from.
So that's really good.
And then one of my interns Itold them in marketing, one of
the key skills you need to learnis stalking.
And he kept coming back to hisdesk and I'm like, did you get
the information?
And he's like, no, not.
Yet he says he's too busy rightnow.
I said, okay, take a book andsit outside his office.
(15:33):
I don't really care what you do, but we need that information
today because we've been waitingfor it for a week and he's been
too busy for a week.
You need to sit outside hisoffice and I remember on the
exit interview I'm like, sowhat's the biggest skill you
learned for marketing?
He goes stalking, gets thingsdone, so yeah.
So it's really importantbecause you have to have that
drive, because there are so manybottlenecks to getting things
(15:58):
done.
Speaker 2 (15:59):
And we're remote for the most part.
So it's a little bit harder toyour point that you know, when I
was in the office full timebefore COVID, I could knock on
somebody's door, you know,attack them when they got back
from a client meeting and belike, hey, you owe me edits on
this.
Relationships matter even morebecause it's so easy to ignore
(16:19):
all the chats and emails thatyou have that are building up,
because there's just so manythings that are on everyone's
table that I don't have as manyinteraction points.
To go up to someone personallyand say, like you put a hole in
my content calendar because thisblog isn't done, which then you
know has a cascading effect andpeople don't think about it
that way and they shouldn't haveto.
That's not their job.
But yeah, building thoserelationships, finding those
(16:44):
opportunities that when we arein person, to make sure that
individuals will answer the callwhen I do put those out but
yeah, stalking is definitely avery critical marketing skill
and has served me very well inthe organizations that I've
supported.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
One of the other things that we were talking
about was the team right, sothere are so many different
skill sets in marketing.
You know, when I was getting myMBA, we did a business plan and
I realized that 90% of thebusiness plan was the marketing
plan.
Right, so we've adoptedeverything except for the part
that goes to finance, and evensome of that we've adopted into
(17:16):
the marketing plan right.
So a marketing plan is, inessence, a business plan.
There's so many components andnot everybody can do everything
right, even as a one-woman showthat you've been before and I've
been before.
You still need additional skillsets, that you can be okay in a
(17:37):
lot of things, but you're notgreat at all of the things.
Right, and I think that's wherepeople get tripped oh, it's
just in Canva.
Oh, you can just use AI.
Right, and don't get me wrong,I love AI and I love Canva, but
I don't have a graphic artist'svision of what things can look
like and I can't put it togetherthat way.
And a lot of my clients likethey benefit because I have a
(18:01):
small team and by hiring methey're paying for less than a
full-time person.
But getting those three, fourskill sets right, and I think
that that's so important.
How have you learned since thebeginning, when you were the one
woman show, to communicate that, to explain to people that not
(18:21):
one person can do it all?
And I think that that's reallyimportant too, by the way, for
solopreneurs, coaches,consultants that are trying to
do all of the stuff themselvestoo.
You need to ask for helpsometimes, but how do you
communicate that to people?
Speaker 2 (18:34):
I think the conversation has evolved since I
started my career because ofthe injection and tools
available now through AIplatforms.
You know, I didn't have Canvawhen I started out.
I wish I did, but you know,here I was trying to figure out
like to be good enough atInDesign or good enough at
PowerPoint to sort of get yourpoint across.
You know, I think it just comesdown to asking someone you know
(18:55):
, what's your vision, what'syour goal?
How do I get you there at theend of the day?
Because, again, as a marketer,you're really there to help
propel someone else's goal andsomeone else's vision for the
organization.
So I like to frame it that way,like I'm here to sort of be an
accelerator to what you want todo, and it's taken me a long
time in some organizations toget you know the funding or get
(19:16):
the buy-in.
Then I can't handle everythingBecause, to your point, you know
I am a little bit better atPowerPoint or a little bit
better at some of these thingsthan the average person, and so
I can get you a pretty goodversion.
But as soon as you add someonein, you know I'm lucky to have a
wonderful graphic designer onmy team, because that is one of
the specialized skill sets thatwe do absolutely need, even in
(19:37):
the world of AI, is that she'slike 100 times better and faster
too.
I think part of it is the tradeup on resources.
You know, if you want me to dothe PowerPoint for you, I
certainly can.
It will look fine, it will lookgreat, but it's going to take
me about four times longer thanit is someone else, and so I
think it's just that trade offof.
Would it make more sense tooutsource some of these things
(19:58):
that are more specialized skillsets, because this frees up my
time to do what I'm better at,which is the high-level strategy
or the vision, or sort of thebig picture thinking to help
support the brand.
And then, you know, havesomeone else take care of those
details who can be much quickerthan I can.
Speaker 1 (20:13):
Well, and nowadays, with Upwork and Fiverr and
everything else, there's so manyresources for us to be able to
get access to skill sets atreasonable prices right that we
couldn't get before because youhad to hire a full-time person.
Now, maybe not all of them needto be full-time, right?
So I think that the landscapehas changed and I love how we
(20:37):
keep you know.
Talking back, I remember I wasthe Jeep advertising manager and
we had Facebook ads running atthe time and we had to have.
One of the other people at theoffice had a kid in college
because it was limited to eduemail addresses at the time, and
so we had to go to someone elsethat had a kid in college that
(20:58):
would give us their login toFacebook so we could see our ads
.
That's how far back I go withsocial media.
So it's yeah, we've come a longway from there, for sure.
Well, this has been an awesomeconversation.
I love how we've talked aboutlearning, your passion for
learning.
It really does cross over intoso much of marketing.
(21:21):
You know we've talked a littlebit about being, you know, lean
and scrappy, which I think isextremely important in today's
day and age, because evenoutside government contracts,
everybody needs to be lean andscrappy and creative, and I
think that the more that we doto do that, the better we are as
(21:42):
organizations, because we get alittle bit more creative.
You know, those big budgetssometimes are not all.
They're cracked up to me andthey really do limit our
creativity at times.
Before I let you go, I do haveto ask you the question that I
ask all of my guests, and thatis that the show is called
Imperfect Marketing, becausemarketing is anything but a
perfect science.
What has been your biggestmarketing lesson that learned
(22:05):
along the way?
Speaker 2 (22:06):
I would say take the chance.
So you know, governmentmarketing not someplace that you
think cool or edgy campaignsbut I've had the ability to put
out some things that you knowour competitors would never and,
to be honest, were things Inever thought we would also put
out.
A couple of years ago we hadthe opportunity to put out a
video that was meant to beinternal.
(22:26):
You know, we had a contractthat went under protest for
quite a long time and so we justthought let's have a little bit
of fun with it with ourpartners, to thank them for
sticking around while you knowthe government was trying to
figure out what to do with thiscontract.
And so, you know, we played onthe Office parody like it's
happening meme, and we got acouple of people to shoot this
like ridiculous video.
And I'm originally from NewJersey, so you know the contract
(22:47):
was called Boss and so to meBoss is Bruce Springsteen and so
we had like a Bruce Springsteencameo, like it was just this
ridiculous video that wassupposed to poke fun at some
people.
And just again, thank peoplefor sticking around.
For the year and a half weplayed it at an internal meeting
with our partners and everyoneloved it and I was shocked by
(23:09):
that.
And then they said, well, whencan I share this on my networks?
And I was like so this is, likeyou know, well outside of what
we would typically publish.
I wasn't going to put it on oursocial media networks but, you
know, enough people came up tome and liked the video that I
said let's do it like why not?
Right.
And that was one of thosepivotal moments where I'm so
glad that I just kind of threwour strategy to the wind,
(23:31):
because not only was it likesuper well received and sort of
went viral in within our owncommunity, but for weeks and
months, you know, people wouldcome up to me at industry events
and reference the video and weactually ended up getting like
an award for it in terms ofgovernment innovation, and then
someone allowed me to give akeynote speech about it too.
So it's just one of those wildmoments where I'm like this was
(23:52):
a crazy idea that came out of awalk with my dog and just me
honestly not having enough timeto think about a proper
marketing campaign, because youknow, when you're a small team
and you've got competingpriorities, thinking about
things that are under protest isjust not top of mind, and so I
think that's my biggest takeawayis that most of the ideas that
are in my head are either geniusor terrible, and I always lead
(24:13):
with that when I'm talking to myteams, just to level set like,
hey, tell me if I'm wrong, tellme if this makes no sense, but
sometimes the crazy ones are thebest ideas.
And so you know, still checkwith your, make sure that it
checks some boxes and you knowyou're not gonna piss anybody
off with the content that youput out there.
But I definitely think that I'ma little bit more willing to
(24:34):
take some risks with ourmarketing because at the end of
the day, we sell services andwe're trying to connect with
people and there are a lot ofpop culture references in that
that.
You know people are behind theagencies that we support and
they were able to make aconnection point with that and
have a laugh, which I think weall need today.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
That's awesome, and I one of the things that I really
loved that you said is viralwithin our community, because,
well, no, but I think thatthat's so important, because
what viral means for mostorganizations, for most
companies, for most peopledoesn't necessarily mean a
billion views, right.
The industry.
That itself speaks volumes tothe fact that you didn't need a
(25:13):
billion, you know, views on someTikTok video, right, being
within that target audience madeeverything possible, and so I
think that that says volumes too.
(25:34):
So it's okay to be a littlecrazy, check it out with some of
your team, right, and do somedifferent things, because you
never know where it'll go.
Sometimes it is terrible, butsometimes it's genius and that's
pretty fun.
So, thank you, guys all so muchfor tuning in, listening or
watching.
If you learned something todayand I hope that you did please
rate and subscribe whereveryou're listening or watching If
(25:56):
you want to connect with Alex orcheck out her podcast.
The act of, or the art ofmastering the art of failing.
I'm sorry, it's like it helpsif I read the notes mastering
the art of failing, and thenwe'll have notes links to that
in the show notes also.
Thank you again so much forbeing here.
I really appreciate your timeand everybody.
Have a great rest of your day.
Popular Podcasts
CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist
It’s 1996 in rural North Carolina, and an oddball crew makes history when they pull off America’s third largest cash heist. But it’s all downhill from there. Join host Johnny Knoxville as he unspools a wild and woolly tale about a group of regular ‘ol folks who risked it all for a chance at a better life. CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist answers the question: what would you do with 17.3 million dollars? The answer includes diamond rings, mansions, velvet Elvis paintings, plus a run for the border, murder-for-hire-plots, and FBI busts.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.