October 30, 2025 • 22 mins
In this episode of Imperfect Marketing, host Kendra Corman sits down with Berlyn, founder of Planted Marketing and creator of The Greenhouse community, to explore what it truly takes to build a strong and sustainable brand in today’s digital-first world. From simplifying your marketing strategy to embracing what works best for you, this conversation is full of practical insights for business owners at every stage.
The Evolution of a Modern Marketer
Berlyn shares her journey from photographer to agency owner—how creativity, curiosity, and a desire to make an impact led her to launch Planted Marketing in 2020 and later, The Greenhouse in 2025. The Greenhouse supports solopreneurs and small business owners in the DIY phase of marketing, helping them grow confidently with practical strategies and community support.
Building a Strong Brand Foundation
We dive into the three essential pillars every business needs before they dive headfirst into digital marketing:
- Clarify Your Brand Identity: Beyond logos and colors—define your mission, values, and why. Putting this on paper creates alignment across everything you do.
- Own Your Online Space: Your website is more than a link in bio. It’s your home base for traffic, email collection, and long-term growth.
- Create a Marketing Wheel: Don’t rely solely on one channel. Develop a balanced strategy across multiple touchpoints—like SEO, Pinterest, LinkedIn, or email—so your business doesn’t collapse if one channel falters.
Simplifying the Marketing Process
With endless platforms and strategies available, Berlyn emphasizes the importance of choosing what fits your strengths:
- Do you love creating videos? Lean into Reels or TikToks.
- Prefer writing? Focus on blogs or newsletters.
- Thrive in conversation? Build through networking and community events.
Consistency, not ubiquity, is the goal. You don’t have to be everywhere—just show up where you enjoy creating.
Community as a Growth Engine
Community building, both online and offline, is a key growth driver. Berlyn highlights:
- Using social media as a nurturing tool—not just for visibility but for deepening relationships.
- Engaging authentically through DMs, comments, and Threads to strengthen visibility and trust.
- Creating systems to stay connected beyond initial meetings—through intentional engagement, coffee chats, or follow-up messages.
Email Marketing: The Underrated Powerhouse
Both Kendra and Berlyn agree—email is your most valuable marketing asset.
Social media algorithms change, but your email list is yours to own. It’s the most reliable channel for building ongoing relationships, sharing updates, and staying in front of your audience.
The Rise of AI in Discovery
Berlyn shares a surprising trend: businesses being found through ChatGPT search—even without formal SEO strategies.
Her advice? Make sure your keywords and messaging are consistent across all platforms. Even a single optimized landing page can make a difference in how AI tools surface your brand.
Key Takeaways f
Looking to leverage AI? Want better results? Want to think about what you want to leverage?
Check and see how I am using it for FREE on YouTube.
From "Holy cow, it can do that?" to "Wait, how does this work again?" – I've got all your AI curiosities covered. It's the perfect after-podcast snack for your tech-hungry brain.
Watch here
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
Hi, I'm Kendra Corman.
If you're a coach, consultant,or marketer, you know marketing
is far from a perfect science.
And that's why this show iscalled Imperfect Marketing.
Join me and my guests as weexplore how to grow your
business with marketing tipsand, of course, lessons learned
along the way.
(00:52):
Hello and welcome back toanother episode of Imperfect
Marketing.
I'm your host, Kendra Corman,and today I'm very excited to be
joined by Berlin and talkingabout one of the things that I'm
very passionate about, which isdigital marketing.
And I think we're even going totalk a little bit about some
community building, butdigitally.
So I'm looking forward to thisconversation.
(01:15):
Welcome.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
I'm excited to dive into all of this.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
All right.
So digital marketing is nowpretty much most of marketing.
Yes, there's still traditionalchannels and things like that,
but it's all driving digitalonline, right?
And so I think digital marketingis now really the core of
marketing.
How did you get into this?
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
Yeah, isn't that funny how everything has really
swapped for sure?
So my background is inphotography.
And I got started working withsmall businesses who like very
small startups who were like,oh, can you also do this and
this and this?
And I just kept saying, sure,why not?
Um, so the photography led intolike Instagram, which led into
like influencers and more andmore things.
(02:00):
And I really loved all of thatbecause it kind of like with
photography, it was fun andcreative, and I love all of
that, but it wasn't like superfulfilling.
Like I wasn't really feelinglike I was giving back in some
way.
So this was kind of a nice segueto like I can still be fun and
creative and do all the littlefun things, but I'm working with
brands that like give back andmake a difference to their
audience or their community.
(02:21):
So that just really evolved.
And um in 2020, I was able to gofull-time.
I launched Plains of Marketingas my agency.
And then um just earlier thisyear, so January 2025, I really
missed the like small businesssolopreneur side of things.
So that's when I launched thegreenhouse, which is a community
for people who are in the DIYstages, can't afford to like
(02:44):
outsource yet, or still it'skind of testing out the waters.
So that's where I teach themeverything I know in a really
attainable way and kind ofsupport them as they grow.
And that's where I'm at today.
SPEAKER_01 (02:54):
Very cool.
Congratulations on hitting thefive-year mark.
That's always um fun.
I mean, I know it's been longerthan that, right?
But full-time five years,fantastic.
So congratulations.
Got to take time to celebratethose wins.
Um, because that's one of thosemilestones, right?
They say what 80% of smallbusinesses don't make it to the
(03:14):
first five years or first threeyears, even.
So we got to take the wins wherewe can.
Congratulations.
Um, especially as we wentthrough the pandemic where
digital marketing really becameso much more.
And then hang on, side note forthose listening and watching, if
you want to jump into the shownotes or the video description,
you can and will have ways toconnect with Berlin there and
(03:36):
the greenhouse and all thosewonderful things.
Okay.
So let's talk about building astrong brand foundation, right?
That's one of the things thatyou like to talk about and push
for people that are looking tostart the digital marketing or
digital marketing, right?
You need a brand foundation.
(03:56):
You need to know who you are.
Talk to me about what you gothrough for that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:01):
Yeah.
So I'd love to hear your inputas well.
I'm going to share like threethings that people should really
get started with and kind ofmiss as we get like, we come up
with our idea, we're ready tolaunch, we get really excited,
we throw it out there.
And then we get kind of stuckaround the six or 12 month mark
because we're like, wait, what'swhat am I actually doing?
So one is your branding, andthat's like more than just
(04:23):
colors and fonts and logo, whichyou do need, but it's also about
like your mission and yourvalues and your why.
We kind of like forget, like wein our minds have like, yeah,
this is what I want to do andwhy I want to do it.
But really, like putting pen topaper, getting all of that like
concrete and really taking timeto dive into it will set up
everything else for you.
So, like how you talk to yourtarget audience, how you present
(04:46):
your brand.
Um, so it's really important togo through that process, which
I'm gonna be honest, five yearsin, I just did my own marketing
strategy this year.
So it's something we all forget.
And yeah, it made a hugedifference.
And like, um, especially as Ikind of like separated my
business into like thegreenhouse and my agency, it
(05:07):
really, really helped me likedive more into like how I'm
speaking to each of thosedifferent audiences.
So recommend.
Don't wait five years to dothat.
Um, another big one is yourwebsite.
So a lot of people get startedon social, then they do like a
link in bio situation, or theyjust use if they're like an
e-com brand, maybe they just uselike Etsy or something like
(05:28):
that.
And a lot of people forget theirwebsite.
So that's super important.
You want to own all thattraffic.
You want to have like a place toget email addresses, you want
people to come to you instead oflike just kind of being at the
hands of social platforms.
Um, and then the last tip I haveis to set up your marketing
(05:48):
wheel.
So I like to think of likeeverything that we're doing as
spokes on a wheel.
So like social media, emails,networking events, um, joining
different communities, whateverit is, that um, you know, a lot
of people just kind of dive intosocial, which is great.
I think you should like take onething and just dive into it.
(06:09):
But also like when social stopsworking or if your account gets
banned, like you don't want yourbusiness to end there.
Um, or if you're just notfeeling up to posting, then you
know, you don't want everythingto fall apart.
So kind of find like maybe fouror five things that can really
support you and are moreevergreen so that way when one
thing falls out, you're not justlike, oh, my whole business is
(06:30):
down.
So like maybe SEO or Pinterestor LinkedIn or something like
that.
So just identifying a few waysto keep your business going when
one way isn't working for you atthe moment.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
So I love that you said that it's taken you five
years to do your own marketingplan.
I I don't know if I can say Idid it within the first five
years or not for mine.
Uh so you might have beat me.
I can't remember.
Um, but I definitely waited waytoo long.
Um, this is a as a do as I say,not as I do type of situation,
(07:02):
right?
It does.
It it just it really solidifiesyour clarity, right?
Around it.
You know, again, clearly wedidn't launch with them because
we knew what we were doing.
Yeah, it would have been waybetter and we would have grown
and been way more successful ifwe had jumped in from the
get-go.
But it is what it is.
You live and learn.
Progress, not perfection.
So, yes, jump in and do that.
(07:24):
Same thing with the website.
I think that that's great.
Yes, you can start with a linkin bio to grow your email list,
but it needs to be on thepriority list to own that
traffic, right?
For sure.
And I would start with emailover social media because you
own that.
Um, but social media is the wayyou get reach, right?
That's how you're gonna reachall of these people and be able
(07:47):
to get permission to engage withthem on a regular basis.
So it's all important.
I get it.
You gotta prioritize becausethere's so many things out
there, and everybody thinks thatthey need to be everywhere.
So, what are your tips forsimplifying this marketing
process and the fact thatthere's 85 billion and a half
(08:07):
channels out there for us topick from?
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
Yeah.
So this is another big thingbecause right, we're if you're
like a solo business owner,you're doing all the things, and
marketing just has to be one ofthem, but it doesn't have to be
like, oh, this is a big thingthat I have to do.
I have to be here, here, here,and here.
So I always recommend is peoplethinking about like what they
really like to do themselves.
(08:31):
So do they really like to createvisual graphics?
Do they like to record videos?
Like, is it easier to just comeon, record yourself talking, and
that's it?
Do you like to talk to people?
So, like networking, workshops,things like that.
So, whatever it is that youreally like to do and using that
to like create the bulk bulk ofyour content, and that will take
(08:52):
off all of the pressure.
So, like I personally hatecreating graphics for myself and
like posting carousels and likedoing all that, it makes me
really annoyed.
So I was like noticing that Iwasn't doing my own social for
so long because I was like, Idon't want to do that today or
today or today.
But I do love coming on,creating like TikToks or reels
(09:14):
and posting it, and that's noproblem for me.
So I was like, why am I even whyare we stressing with this?
Why don't I just post your reelor TikTok every day or like when
I'm feeling called to do it?
So we all have these things thatwe like are hold us up or things
that we really enjoy doing.
So I always recommend to justhave that as like what your main
thing is and just kind of likeforget about everything else.
(09:34):
You don't have to be everywheredoing all the things, you just
have to be consistent and sofind whatever that is that works
best for you.
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
I love that there are very few people that give
that kind of advice.
And like I always tell people,they're like, Okay, well, I
don't I don't want to be on thesocial media platforms.
Like, how do I pick one?
And I say, okay, where do youlike to spend your time?
Right.
Because all of the big ones, andthey're usually talking about
Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn,right, um, Twitter, um, all of
the big ones, your audience isthere.
(10:03):
Odds are, with a billion pluspeople logging in, your audience
is on on them, right?
So, you know, and TikTok, Iforgot about TikTok.
Um, so where do you like to be?
Where do you like to interactwith people?
What type of content do you liketo create?
I love how you said, hey, do youlike videos?
Do you like pictures?
Whatever that happens to be,because that that does drive it,
(10:28):
right?
That does do some of thatcreation.
So I think that that's really,really good.
So love that.
What's the best thing that youfound that helps people move the
needle in their business?
SPEAKER_00 (10:42):
I think that like obviously some sort of community
space.
So networking, in-person,virtually, joining different
online communities, um, and thenusing social to like nurture all
of that.
So, like, um personally not bigon like Instagram for myself in
terms of like growth and likebrand awareness and stuff, but I
(11:02):
use that as a nurturing tool.
And as somebody who is B2B,personally, I think that works
really well as I go to all ofthese like community events, um,
make connections, and then usesocial to kind of like keep
those relationships going.
Um, but it really works foranybody like e-commerce, service
provider, B2B, B2C, anything.
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
So let's talk about this community building.
I love how you're mentioningthat it could be in person, that
it could be online.
There's a lot of different waysto meet people and then nurture
them through social.
People do business with peoplethat they know, like, and trust.
And so if I've met you at anevent and then I feel like I
(11:41):
know you through your socialposts, right, I'm more likely to
do business with you.
Is that the big impact thatyou're seeing?
Or how are you finding that thecommunication or the
conversation is able to continueafter these meetings?
And I'll I'll say why I'm askingthe question is I have a lot of
friends who run their ownbusinesses and they're like,
(12:04):
I've got so many meetings, I'vegot so many places to go and so
many places to be.
And then I don't, I don't havetime to follow up with the
people.
How, how am I gonna do this?
Right, they'll talk about hiringsalespeople or you know,
whatever else.
And it's like, no, you don'tneed to, you just need to create
a system to nurture.
And you're saying social doesthat.
(12:26):
Are there other ways that you'reusing to get them off of social
or following up or that yourecommend that people do?
SPEAKER_00 (12:33):
Yeah, coming, bringing like the relationships
back to like Instagram tends tobe a really good hub for
everybody.
And then, like, what I like tosay is if you're feeling
overwhelmed and maybe you wantto use this as a strategy, maybe
you're posting just once a weekor something on Instagram, but
then spending the rest of thetime that you would dedicate to
social to just engaging withpeople.
And then yeah, that can be, youknow, that moving forward after
(12:55):
that can be whatever it makessense for that relationship.
So are you gonna do like aone-on-one coffee chat?
Do you just want to keep themtop of mind or keep you top of
mind for them?
So one thing that I really liketo do is get people like
conversation started in the DMsbecause that will help you see
each other's content more.
That like signals to Instagram,these people want to see each
other's content.
(13:15):
Um, and then I also like to sortthe feed by like people I'm
following.
So when you go tap on theInstagram logo in your feed, you
can see like different orders,which they don't talk about.
They don't want people to knowthat.
So every time I share that,people are like, oh my gosh.
So you can put your feedback inchronological order or just see
people that you're following,which really helps like actually
(13:37):
engage with those people again.
So you can just spend that timecommenting and like interacting
with their content again to kindof like deepen that
relationship.
Instagram's really good forthat.
Threads is really good.
I put off joining threads for solong because I did not want, I
don't like meta.
I didn't want to join anothersocial platform, but I finally
did it and it's been really goodfor like creating conversations,
(13:59):
people that you know, and evenlike people you don't know.
I've met a lot of people throughthreads already too.
SPEAKER_01 (14:05):
So, one thing that I like that I'm gonna highlight is
that um I hate Instagram.
Like I just do never want to gothere.
I spend no time at all onInstagram.
I do post to it, but I don't doanything.
I definitely don't do anyinteraction.
Um, I'm doing most of mine onLinkedIn and YouTube.
So, but I think that theimportant thing to note here is
(14:26):
that we both have successfulagencies.
We're both B2B, right?
Um, our targets may be a littlebit different, and they probably
are a little bit different,right?
In terms of what we want to doand the impact we want to have
on and who that is, right?
And what they want to do.
But that's not bad, right?
So it's okay, you know.
(14:47):
Again, you're finding successwith Instagram, which I think is
fantastic.
And I hear people talk aboutsuccess with Instagram all the
time.
It feels like work to me.
I'm not doing it.
I'm not gonna do it.
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
Yeah.
And that's totally fine.
That exactly goes back to likesimplifying it and just making
it what you like to do becauseyou'll make it work anywhere.
Your people are gonna beeverywhere, people are on all
the different platforms, so likeyou don't have to stress, like,
oh, my target audience is onlygonna be here or only gonna be
here.
I think those lines have reallylike gotten blurry or don't even
(15:20):
exist anymore.
So, yeah, if LinkedIn works foryou, that's great.
For me, I hate going onLinkedIn.
So it's good, you know, we eachhave our things, and that's
what's important.
SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
Well, and I think it's really important if you're
if you're watching or listeningto hear the different stories on
how how we're interactingdifferently on social media.
There isn't a right and wronganswer.
I think I shouldn't say that.
There is a wrong answer, andthat's not doing anything,
right?
Um, I've talked with people andhad guests on the podcast who
are not on social media.
(15:52):
I I don't know how, but they'renot on social media, right?
They leverage other ways to getthat reach, um, usually
podcasting or podcast guesting.
I yeah, as long as you'rereplacing it with something that
has a similar reach and that hasaccess to your target, it's
usually okay.
(16:13):
There's no hard and fast rules,and there really isn't only one
right answer, right?
Um, although I usually do saythat email is the one right
answer because email emailserves you up and people um so
that you're not um beholden tothe algorithm.
What what are your thoughts onlike email marketing?
(16:34):
And you're welcome to disagreewith me.
SPEAKER_00 (16:36):
No, totally agree.
Um I always recommend whenyou're building out your
website, that's what you need todo first, and you need to
automatically build in yournewsletter and like sign up.
Even if you're not ready tocommit to like doing the whole
process, you want to immediatelystart capturing people because
yeah, Instagram goes down, allthe platforms go down sometimes,
(16:56):
and then what like your businessstops, you don't can't contact
people.
Instagram stops showing yourpost to people, like things
change all the time.
But email you can send it,you'll be in their inbox no
matter what.
So there's no, you're not at thehands of anybody.
So yeah, email is super, superimportant.
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
Well, and I think it's important to know that you
own your email list.
You can take it, you can changefrom constant contact to kit,
which was formerly known asconvert kit, or you know,
wherever you want to go with it,you own that.
You don't own your real estateon Facebook, Instagram.
I mean, when they startedchanging the algorithms way back
(17:34):
when, which I don't even want toguess what year that was,
because it was way long ago, I'msure.
And Facebook became aplay-to-play marketplace.
People, businesses reallysuffered because they didn't
have a backup plan for whatwould happen if they lost
contact with all those people.
I've talked to people who'vebeen hacked, who've lost access
(17:57):
to their accounts, just amillion and a half different
things that that I couldprobably share with that, right?
But it really comes down tofiguring out what you're gonna
do for reach, right?
Which a lot of times is socialmedia because it's super easy,
especially when you're pickingwhat you like to do, and then
getting them offline and gettingthem onto your email list.
(18:19):
So, which I think is isfantastic because then you can
continue the conversation.
Um, what has been your mostsurprising tactic lately in the
world of digital marketing?
SPEAKER_00 (18:32):
What's been surprising to me lately is
people finding other peoplethrough ChatGPT.
And particularly when people arelike, oh, I don't even do like
they don't even have an SEOstrategy.
And it's just like, oh, peopleare finding me on Chat GPT.
I haven't ever posted a blog.
I'm like, oh, that's kind ofcrazy.
I do focus a lot on like organiccontent marketing and SEO, so
(18:55):
that's already like what I'mdoing.
And a lot of that reallytransfers into AI um search
results pretty simply, but itjust does blow in my mind when
people are like, oh, people justfound me here and I don't know
how.
So like I think that's why it'sreally important to have your
everything like optimized.
So even if you just have onelanding page, all of your social
(19:17):
stuff, like you need to haveyour keyword and like who you
help on every platform thatyou're on, because I think it's
scraping like everything.
Obviously, it's scrapingeverything.
So if you don't want to investin like SEO fully, like um,
yeah, have your keywordssomewhere for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (19:33):
That is surprising.
I've heard a couple of peopletalk about that, but that is
just it's so eye-opening, right?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
Um that's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (19:41):
So this has been a fantastic conversation.
I appreciate everything thatyou've been sharing.
I hope that everybody listeningand watching has learned
something because I do love tohear people that are doing
things differently than mebecause it still works, right?
We don't all have to be the sameand we shouldn't be the same.
So when you see someone whileyou're scrolling through TikTok
(20:03):
talking about the milliondollars that they made using
generative AI or Chat GBT andmaking TikToks, that may not
necessarily work for you.
And that's okay.
Um, I don't think it works for alot of people, but we'll roll
with it.
Um, because I think you do needunique content.
But um, you know, again, thinkabout how you're moving forward
um with what you're doing andknow that there isn't one right
(20:27):
answer right answer toeverything.
Now, Berlin, before I let yougo, um I have to ask you the
question that I ask all of myguests.
And that is this show is calledImperfect Marketing because
marketing is anything but aperfect science.
What has been your biggestmarketing lesson learned along
the way?
SPEAKER_00 (20:42):
I think that like is our whole conversation is that
you know, nothing is one sizefits all.
And I think that's been what'sbeen the most interesting is
that I've worked with people allover different industries and
all different sizes of business.
And like you can think, oh, thisis what's gonna work.
I'm gonna do this, this is gonnabe flawless, and like almost
never works.
(21:02):
So, like that's why it'simportant to like work with a
marketing strategist in somecapacity, because there is so
much testing involved, and likenothing really is one size fits
all.
And so having like a strategybehind the testing is important.
Um, but that's the thing, isnobody really knows.
(21:23):
And we can all do things thatwork for us and make it work.
Um, and yeah, I don't know, it'sfun.
That's why it's so fun.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
It is, right?
Because it's part art.
Marketing is part art and partscience.
It's definitely imperfect forsure.
And that's why the show iscalled Imperfect Marketing.
But again, I think that what youshared today about building that
solid brand foundation, makingsure that your website, your
socials, everything is lining upand saying the same message.
(21:52):
And of course, building thatmarketing plan that neither one
of these two marketingstrategists did for a few years
really does help and can helpyou grow a lot faster, probably
than both of us did, just by notwriting it down.
Putting pen to paper is soimportant.
I can't stress that.
Winging it not quite the samelevel.
Um, but it does happen.
(22:13):
And uh don't kick yourself ifyou haven't done it, right?
Just progress, not perfection.
Move on and move forward.
Thank you again so much, Berlin,for joining me.
Thank you, all of you, fortuning in and watching or
listening.
If you learned something today,it would really help me out if
you would rate and subscribe.
Until next time, have a greatrest of your day.
Hi, I'm Kendra Corman.
If you're a coach, consultant,or marketer, you know marketing
is far from a perfect science.
And that's why this show iscalled Imperfect Marketing.
Join me and my guests as weexplore how to grow your
business with marketing tipsand, of course, lessons learned
along the way.
(00:52):
Hello and welcome back toanother episode of Imperfect
Marketing.
I'm your host, Kendra Corman,and today I'm very excited to be
joined by Berlin and talkingabout one of the things that I'm
very passionate about, which isdigital marketing.
And I think we're even going totalk a little bit about some
community building, butdigitally.
So I'm looking forward to thisconversation.
(01:15):
Welcome.
Thank you so much for joining metoday.
Thanks for having me.
SPEAKER_00 (01:18):
I'm excited to dive into all of this.
SPEAKER_01 (01:20):
All right.
So digital marketing is nowpretty much most of marketing.
Yes, there's still traditionalchannels and things like that,
but it's all driving digitalonline, right?
And so I think digital marketingis now really the core of
marketing.
How did you get into this?
SPEAKER_00 (01:38):
Yeah, isn't that funny how everything has really
swapped for sure?
So my background is inphotography.
And I got started working withsmall businesses who like very
small startups who were like,oh, can you also do this and
this and this?
And I just kept saying, sure,why not?
Um, so the photography led intolike Instagram, which led into
like influencers and more andmore things.
(02:00):
And I really loved all of thatbecause it kind of like with
photography, it was fun andcreative, and I love all of
that, but it wasn't like superfulfilling.
Like I wasn't really feelinglike I was giving back in some
way.
So this was kind of a nice segueto like I can still be fun and
creative and do all the littlefun things, but I'm working with
brands that like give back andmake a difference to their
audience or their community.
(02:21):
So that just really evolved.
And um in 2020, I was able to gofull-time.
I launched Plains of Marketingas my agency.
And then um just earlier thisyear, so January 2025, I really
missed the like small businesssolopreneur side of things.
So that's when I launched thegreenhouse, which is a community
for people who are in the DIYstages, can't afford to like
(02:44):
outsource yet, or still it'skind of testing out the waters.
So that's where I teach themeverything I know in a really
attainable way and kind ofsupport them as they grow.
And that's where I'm at today.
SPEAKER_01 (02:54):
Very cool.
Congratulations on hitting thefive-year mark.
That's always um fun.
I mean, I know it's been longerthan that, right?
But full-time five years,fantastic.
So congratulations.
Got to take time to celebratethose wins.
Um, because that's one of thosemilestones, right?
They say what 80% of smallbusinesses don't make it to the
(03:14):
first five years or first threeyears, even.
So we got to take the wins wherewe can.
Congratulations.
Um, especially as we wentthrough the pandemic where
digital marketing really becameso much more.
And then hang on, side note forthose listening and watching, if
you want to jump into the shownotes or the video description,
you can and will have ways toconnect with Berlin there and
(03:36):
the greenhouse and all thosewonderful things.
Okay.
So let's talk about building astrong brand foundation, right?
That's one of the things thatyou like to talk about and push
for people that are looking tostart the digital marketing or
digital marketing, right?
You need a brand foundation.
(03:56):
You need to know who you are.
Talk to me about what you gothrough for that.
SPEAKER_00 (04:01):
Yeah.
So I'd love to hear your inputas well.
I'm going to share like threethings that people should really
get started with and kind ofmiss as we get like, we come up
with our idea, we're ready tolaunch, we get really excited,
we throw it out there.
And then we get kind of stuckaround the six or 12 month mark
because we're like, wait, what'swhat am I actually doing?
So one is your branding, andthat's like more than just
(04:23):
colors and fonts and logo, whichyou do need, but it's also about
like your mission and yourvalues and your why.
We kind of like forget, like wein our minds have like, yeah,
this is what I want to do andwhy I want to do it.
But really, like putting pen topaper, getting all of that like
concrete and really taking timeto dive into it will set up
everything else for you.
So, like how you talk to yourtarget audience, how you present
(04:46):
your brand.
Um, so it's really important togo through that process, which
I'm gonna be honest, five yearsin, I just did my own marketing
strategy this year.
So it's something we all forget.
And yeah, it made a hugedifference.
And like, um, especially as Ikind of like separated my
business into like thegreenhouse and my agency, it
(05:07):
really, really helped me likedive more into like how I'm
speaking to each of thosedifferent audiences.
So recommend.
Don't wait five years to dothat.
Um, another big one is yourwebsite.
So a lot of people get startedon social, then they do like a
link in bio situation, or theyjust use if they're like an
e-com brand, maybe they just uselike Etsy or something like
(05:28):
that.
And a lot of people forget theirwebsite.
So that's super important.
You want to own all thattraffic.
You want to have like a place toget email addresses, you want
people to come to you instead oflike just kind of being at the
hands of social platforms.
Um, and then the last tip I haveis to set up your marketing
(05:48):
wheel.
So I like to think of likeeverything that we're doing as
spokes on a wheel.
So like social media, emails,networking events, um, joining
different communities, whateverit is, that um, you know, a lot
of people just kind of dive intosocial, which is great.
I think you should like take onething and just dive into it.
(06:09):
But also like when social stopsworking or if your account gets
banned, like you don't want yourbusiness to end there.
Um, or if you're just notfeeling up to posting, then you
know, you don't want everythingto fall apart.
So kind of find like maybe fouror five things that can really
support you and are moreevergreen so that way when one
thing falls out, you're not justlike, oh, my whole business is
(06:30):
down.
So like maybe SEO or Pinterestor LinkedIn or something like
that.
So just identifying a few waysto keep your business going when
one way isn't working for you atthe moment.
SPEAKER_01 (06:41):
So I love that you said that it's taken you five
years to do your own marketingplan.
I I don't know if I can say Idid it within the first five
years or not for mine.
Uh so you might have beat me.
I can't remember.
Um, but I definitely waited waytoo long.
Um, this is a as a do as I say,not as I do type of situation,
(07:02):
right?
It does.
It it just it really solidifiesyour clarity, right?
Around it.
You know, again, clearly wedidn't launch with them because
we knew what we were doing.
Yeah, it would have been waybetter and we would have grown
and been way more successful ifwe had jumped in from the
get-go.
But it is what it is.
You live and learn.
Progress, not perfection.
So, yes, jump in and do that.
(07:24):
Same thing with the website.
I think that that's great.
Yes, you can start with a linkin bio to grow your email list,
but it needs to be on thepriority list to own that
traffic, right?
For sure.
And I would start with emailover social media because you
own that.
Um, but social media is the wayyou get reach, right?
That's how you're gonna reachall of these people and be able
(07:47):
to get permission to engage withthem on a regular basis.
So it's all important.
I get it.
You gotta prioritize becausethere's so many things out
there, and everybody thinks thatthey need to be everywhere.
So, what are your tips forsimplifying this marketing
process and the fact thatthere's 85 billion and a half
(08:07):
channels out there for us topick from?
SPEAKER_00 (08:10):
Yeah.
So this is another big thingbecause right, we're if you're
like a solo business owner,you're doing all the things, and
marketing just has to be one ofthem, but it doesn't have to be
like, oh, this is a big thingthat I have to do.
I have to be here, here, here,and here.
So I always recommend is peoplethinking about like what they
really like to do themselves.
(08:31):
So do they really like to createvisual graphics?
Do they like to record videos?
Like, is it easier to just comeon, record yourself talking, and
that's it?
Do you like to talk to people?
So, like networking, workshops,things like that.
So, whatever it is that youreally like to do and using that
to like create the bulk bulk ofyour content, and that will take
(08:52):
off all of the pressure.
So, like I personally hatecreating graphics for myself and
like posting carousels and likedoing all that, it makes me
really annoyed.
So I was like noticing that Iwasn't doing my own social for
so long because I was like, Idon't want to do that today or
today or today.
But I do love coming on,creating like TikToks or reels
(09:14):
and posting it, and that's noproblem for me.
So I was like, why am I even whyare we stressing with this?
Why don't I just post your reelor TikTok every day or like when
I'm feeling called to do it?
So we all have these things thatwe like are hold us up or things
that we really enjoy doing.
So I always recommend to justhave that as like what your main
thing is and just kind of likeforget about everything else.
(09:34):
You don't have to be everywheredoing all the things, you just
have to be consistent and sofind whatever that is that works
best for you.
SPEAKER_01 (09:41):
I love that there are very few people that give
that kind of advice.
And like I always tell people,they're like, Okay, well, I
don't I don't want to be on thesocial media platforms.
Like, how do I pick one?
And I say, okay, where do youlike to spend your time?
Right.
Because all of the big ones, andthey're usually talking about
Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn,right, um, Twitter, um, all of
the big ones, your audience isthere.
(10:03):
Odds are, with a billion pluspeople logging in, your audience
is on on them, right?
So, you know, and TikTok, Iforgot about TikTok.
Um, so where do you like to be?
Where do you like to interactwith people?
What type of content do you liketo create?
I love how you said, hey, do youlike videos?
Do you like pictures?
Whatever that happens to be,because that that does drive it,
(10:28):
right?
That does do some of thatcreation.
So I think that that's really,really good.
So love that.
What's the best thing that youfound that helps people move the
needle in their business?
SPEAKER_00 (10:42):
I think that like obviously some sort of community
space.
So networking, in-person,virtually, joining different
online communities, um, and thenusing social to like nurture all
of that.
So, like, um personally not bigon like Instagram for myself in
terms of like growth and likebrand awareness and stuff, but I
(11:02):
use that as a nurturing tool.
And as somebody who is B2B,personally, I think that works
really well as I go to all ofthese like community events, um,
make connections, and then usesocial to kind of like keep
those relationships going.
Um, but it really works foranybody like e-commerce, service
provider, B2B, B2C, anything.
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
So let's talk about this community building.
I love how you're mentioningthat it could be in person, that
it could be online.
There's a lot of different waysto meet people and then nurture
them through social.
People do business with peoplethat they know, like, and trust.
And so if I've met you at anevent and then I feel like I
(11:41):
know you through your socialposts, right, I'm more likely to
do business with you.
Is that the big impact thatyou're seeing?
Or how are you finding that thecommunication or the
conversation is able to continueafter these meetings?
And I'll I'll say why I'm askingthe question is I have a lot of
friends who run their ownbusinesses and they're like,
(12:04):
I've got so many meetings, I'vegot so many places to go and so
many places to be.
And then I don't, I don't havetime to follow up with the
people.
How, how am I gonna do this?
Right, they'll talk about hiringsalespeople or you know,
whatever else.
And it's like, no, you don'tneed to, you just need to create
a system to nurture.
And you're saying social doesthat.
(12:26):
Are there other ways that you'reusing to get them off of social
or following up or that yourecommend that people do?
SPEAKER_00 (12:33):
Yeah, coming, bringing like the relationships
back to like Instagram tends tobe a really good hub for
everybody.
And then, like, what I like tosay is if you're feeling
overwhelmed and maybe you wantto use this as a strategy, maybe
you're posting just once a weekor something on Instagram, but
then spending the rest of thetime that you would dedicate to
social to just engaging withpeople.
And then yeah, that can be, youknow, that moving forward after
(12:55):
that can be whatever it makessense for that relationship.
So are you gonna do like aone-on-one coffee chat?
Do you just want to keep themtop of mind or keep you top of
mind for them?
So one thing that I really liketo do is get people like
conversation started in the DMsbecause that will help you see
each other's content more.
That like signals to Instagram,these people want to see each
other's content.
(13:15):
Um, and then I also like to sortthe feed by like people I'm
following.
So when you go tap on theInstagram logo in your feed, you
can see like different orders,which they don't talk about.
They don't want people to knowthat.
So every time I share that,people are like, oh my gosh.
So you can put your feedback inchronological order or just see
people that you're following,which really helps like actually
(13:37):
engage with those people again.
So you can just spend that timecommenting and like interacting
with their content again to kindof like deepen that
relationship.
Instagram's really good forthat.
Threads is really good.
I put off joining threads for solong because I did not want, I
don't like meta.
I didn't want to join anothersocial platform, but I finally
did it and it's been really goodfor like creating conversations,
(13:59):
people that you know, and evenlike people you don't know.
I've met a lot of people throughthreads already too.
SPEAKER_01 (14:05):
So, one thing that I like that I'm gonna highlight is
that um I hate Instagram.
Like I just do never want to gothere.
I spend no time at all onInstagram.
I do post to it, but I don't doanything.
I definitely don't do anyinteraction.
Um, I'm doing most of mine onLinkedIn and YouTube.
So, but I think that theimportant thing to note here is
(14:26):
that we both have successfulagencies.
We're both B2B, right?
Um, our targets may be a littlebit different, and they probably
are a little bit different,right?
In terms of what we want to doand the impact we want to have
on and who that is, right?
And what they want to do.
But that's not bad, right?
So it's okay, you know.
(14:47):
Again, you're finding successwith Instagram, which I think is
fantastic.
And I hear people talk aboutsuccess with Instagram all the
time.
It feels like work to me.
I'm not doing it.
I'm not gonna do it.
SPEAKER_00 (14:58):
Yeah.
And that's totally fine.
That exactly goes back to likesimplifying it and just making
it what you like to do becauseyou'll make it work anywhere.
Your people are gonna beeverywhere, people are on all
the different platforms, so likeyou don't have to stress, like,
oh, my target audience is onlygonna be here or only gonna be
here.
I think those lines have reallylike gotten blurry or don't even
(15:20):
exist anymore.
So, yeah, if LinkedIn works foryou, that's great.
For me, I hate going onLinkedIn.
So it's good, you know, we eachhave our things, and that's
what's important.
SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
Well, and I think it's really important if you're
if you're watching or listeningto hear the different stories on
how how we're interactingdifferently on social media.
There isn't a right and wronganswer.
I think I shouldn't say that.
There is a wrong answer, andthat's not doing anything,
right?
Um, I've talked with people andhad guests on the podcast who
are not on social media.
(15:52):
I I don't know how, but they'renot on social media, right?
They leverage other ways to getthat reach, um, usually
podcasting or podcast guesting.
I yeah, as long as you'rereplacing it with something that
has a similar reach and that hasaccess to your target, it's
usually okay.
(16:13):
There's no hard and fast rules,and there really isn't only one
right answer, right?
Um, although I usually do saythat email is the one right
answer because email emailserves you up and people um so
that you're not um beholden tothe algorithm.
What what are your thoughts onlike email marketing?
(16:34):
And you're welcome to disagreewith me.
SPEAKER_00 (16:36):
No, totally agree.
Um I always recommend whenyou're building out your
website, that's what you need todo first, and you need to
automatically build in yournewsletter and like sign up.
Even if you're not ready tocommit to like doing the whole
process, you want to immediatelystart capturing people because
yeah, Instagram goes down, allthe platforms go down sometimes,
(16:56):
and then what like your businessstops, you don't can't contact
people.
Instagram stops showing yourpost to people, like things
change all the time.
But email you can send it,you'll be in their inbox no
matter what.
So there's no, you're not at thehands of anybody.
So yeah, email is super, superimportant.
SPEAKER_01 (17:14):
Well, and I think it's important to know that you
own your email list.
You can take it, you can changefrom constant contact to kit,
which was formerly known asconvert kit, or you know,
wherever you want to go with it,you own that.
You don't own your real estateon Facebook, Instagram.
I mean, when they startedchanging the algorithms way back
(17:34):
when, which I don't even want toguess what year that was,
because it was way long ago, I'msure.
And Facebook became aplay-to-play marketplace.
People, businesses reallysuffered because they didn't
have a backup plan for whatwould happen if they lost
contact with all those people.
I've talked to people who'vebeen hacked, who've lost access
(17:57):
to their accounts, just amillion and a half different
things that that I couldprobably share with that, right?
But it really comes down tofiguring out what you're gonna
do for reach, right?
Which a lot of times is socialmedia because it's super easy,
especially when you're pickingwhat you like to do, and then
getting them offline and gettingthem onto your email list.
(18:19):
So, which I think is isfantastic because then you can
continue the conversation.
Um, what has been your mostsurprising tactic lately in the
world of digital marketing?
SPEAKER_00 (18:32):
What's been surprising to me lately is
people finding other peoplethrough ChatGPT.
And particularly when people arelike, oh, I don't even do like
they don't even have an SEOstrategy.
And it's just like, oh, peopleare finding me on Chat GPT.
I haven't ever posted a blog.
I'm like, oh, that's kind ofcrazy.
I do focus a lot on like organiccontent marketing and SEO, so
(18:55):
that's already like what I'mdoing.
And a lot of that reallytransfers into AI um search
results pretty simply, but itjust does blow in my mind when
people are like, oh, people justfound me here and I don't know
how.
So like I think that's why it'sreally important to have your
everything like optimized.
So even if you just have onelanding page, all of your social
(19:17):
stuff, like you need to haveyour keyword and like who you
help on every platform thatyou're on, because I think it's
scraping like everything.
Obviously, it's scrapingeverything.
So if you don't want to investin like SEO fully, like um,
yeah, have your keywordssomewhere for sure.
SPEAKER_01 (19:33):
That is surprising.
I've heard a couple of peopletalk about that, but that is
just it's so eye-opening, right?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:39):
Um that's okay.
SPEAKER_01 (19:41):
So this has been a fantastic conversation.
I appreciate everything thatyou've been sharing.
I hope that everybody listeningand watching has learned
something because I do love tohear people that are doing
things differently than mebecause it still works, right?
We don't all have to be the sameand we shouldn't be the same.
So when you see someone whileyou're scrolling through TikTok
(20:03):
talking about the milliondollars that they made using
generative AI or Chat GBT andmaking TikToks, that may not
necessarily work for you.
And that's okay.
Um, I don't think it works for alot of people, but we'll roll
with it.
Um, because I think you do needunique content.
But um, you know, again, thinkabout how you're moving forward
um with what you're doing andknow that there isn't one right
(20:27):
answer right answer toeverything.
Now, Berlin, before I let yougo, um I have to ask you the
question that I ask all of myguests.
And that is this show is calledImperfect Marketing because
marketing is anything but aperfect science.
What has been your biggestmarketing lesson learned along
the way?
SPEAKER_00 (20:42):
I think that like is our whole conversation is that
you know, nothing is one sizefits all.
And I think that's been what'sbeen the most interesting is
that I've worked with people allover different industries and
all different sizes of business.
And like you can think, oh, thisis what's gonna work.
I'm gonna do this, this is gonnabe flawless, and like almost
never works.
(21:02):
So, like that's why it'simportant to like work with a
marketing strategist in somecapacity, because there is so
much testing involved, and likenothing really is one size fits
all.
And so having like a strategybehind the testing is important.
Um, but that's the thing, isnobody really knows.
(21:23):
And we can all do things thatwork for us and make it work.
Um, and yeah, I don't know, it'sfun.
That's why it's so fun.
SPEAKER_01 (21:30):
It is, right?
Because it's part art.
Marketing is part art and partscience.
It's definitely imperfect forsure.
And that's why the show iscalled Imperfect Marketing.
But again, I think that what youshared today about building that
solid brand foundation, makingsure that your website, your
socials, everything is lining upand saying the same message.
(21:52):
And of course, building thatmarketing plan that neither one
of these two marketingstrategists did for a few years
really does help and can helpyou grow a lot faster, probably
than both of us did, just by notwriting it down.
Putting pen to paper is soimportant.
I can't stress that.
Winging it not quite the samelevel.
Um, but it does happen.
(22:13):
And uh don't kick yourself ifyou haven't done it, right?
Just progress, not perfection.
Move on and move forward.
Thank you again so much, Berlin,for joining me.
Thank you, all of you, fortuning in and watching or
listening.
If you learned something today,it would really help me out if
you would rate and subscribe.
Until next time, have a greatrest of your day.
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