June 26, 2025 • 23 mins
Ever wonder how to grow your business without constantly chasing leads?
In this episode of Imperfect Marketing, host Kendra Corman sits down with podcast guesting expert Julie Fry to unpack the power of effortless visibility—and why podcast interviews are the underused goldmine of relationship-based marketing.
Julie shares how one early (and very imperfect) podcast appearance led to $40,000+ in business, and how you can replicate that success—without being salesy or pitching to the wrong shows. From defining your goals to landing on the right podcasts and delivering value that gets remembered, this episode is full of practical wisdom and confidence-building insights.
🎧 Whether you’re a coach, consultant, or service provider trying to stand out, this episode is your guide to getting seen, heard, and hired through podcast guesting.
📨 What We Cover:
🎯 How to Define Your Podcast Guesting Goals
🔍 Finding the Right-Fit Podcasts (and What to Avoid)
📈 What Makes a Pitch Stand Out—and Get Accepted
🎤 How to Be a Guest That Hosts Want to Promote
🔥 Julie’s Key Takeaways:
- Start with your goals. “Why do you want to guest on podcasts? Keep asking yourself ‘why’ until you hit the real answer.”
- It’s not about a massive audience. It’s about the right audience.
- Be respectful of the host. Do your research, offer unique value, and make it easy for them to say yes.
- Don’t treat a guest spot like a sales pitch. Tell stories, share insights, and let your credibility shine through naturally.
- Schedule your marketing! What gets scheduled gets done—and podcasting is no different.
“If you can be a great guest who adds value, builds trust, and actually promotes the episode, you become memorable—and that leads to real results.” – Julie Fry
📣 Ready to show up with confidence and consistency in your marketing? This episode will help you build momentum—one conversation at a time.
🔗 Connect with Julie Fry:
Website: yourexpertguest.com
LinkedIn: Julie Fry
🎧 Listen & Subscribe to Imperfect Marketing for weekly inspiration on connecting with your audience—authentically.
Looking to leverage AI? Want better results? Want to think about what you want to leverage?
Check and see how I am using it for FREE on YouTube.
From "Holy cow, it can do that?" to "Wait, how does this work again?" – I've got all your AI curiosities covered. It's the perfect after-podcast snack for your tech-hungry brain.
Watch here
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Kendra Korman .
If you're a coach, consultantor marketer, you know marketing
is far from a perfect scienceand that's why this show is
called Imperfect Marketing.
Join me and my guests as weexplore how to grow your
business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned
along the way.
Hello and welcome back toanother episode of Imperfect
(00:27):
Marketing.
I'm your host, Kendra Korman,and today I am really excited to
be talking about effortlessvisibility and really like how
that is all about podcastguesting with a very special
guest, julie Fry.
Thank you so much for joiningme, julie Hi Kendra.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Thank you so much for joining me, julie Hi Kendra.
Thank you so much for having meso how did you get into podcast
guesting?
That's the question that Ialways get when I'm at a
networking event or a familyfunction.
So how did you start thatbusiness?
Because it is very niche.
It's very specific.
Prior to this business, I ran awomen's networking organization
(01:05):
for women balancingentrepreneurship and motherhood,
and I ran that for seven years.
Early on in the business, I wasinvited to be a guest on
somebody's podcast, and this wasin 2013.
So podcasts were still a thing,but in a much smaller way than
they are now.
I appeared on this podcast.
(01:26):
I did everything wrong.
I didn't listen to an episodebefore I did the interview, I
didn't share it when it wentlive, I didn't have an external
mic, I just you know all thethings, but what good thing came
out of it is relationship withthe host, who I was an early
guest, but she went on to haveher podcast for 11 years.
(01:46):
Over the course of time webecame friends, we became
referral partners.
I can directly track back Idon't know $40,000, $50,000
worth of business to my businessbecause of that one podcast
episode.
That led to other things.
So that is really why I startedthis business in May of 2020,
(02:08):
because women needed a way tostay visible, because the world
was shut down.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Otherwise, I love that story first off, because
it's just sort of like meant tobe right.
You find something and thenit's like, okay, sure I'll do it
.
I don't know what I'm doing,and then it still turns into
something amazing.
So nobody has enough time to domarketing, right?
That's the thing I get all thetime.
(02:33):
That's part of why my yeahright, me too.
I'm trying to think.
The last time I posted, I'mhoping I'm posting on social
media this week.
How do you find the rightpodcasts, let alone pitch to
them?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It is a little bit of art and a little bit of science
.
We at my company have aframework that we walk through
when we're looking at eitherright fit podcasts for our
clients that we do it for.
We also build customized listsfor our clients if they have the
resources to do it themselves.
So step number one and youprobably do this as well with
(03:11):
your clients is what's the goal?
What do you want to get out ofyour marketing?
For some clients it's leadgeneration.
For some it's building areferral network.
For some they're launching abook.
So getting clear on what yourgoal is then drives the strategy
around what podcasts to lookfor?
Okay, before you go any further.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Did you hear that?
What's your goal?
Start with the goal, not justlike posting on social media or
guesting on podcasts becausesomeone else did it or someone
else told you to do it.
What's the goal?
Who are you trying to reach andwhat are you trying to do with
it?
I mean, it's so basic, but it'sso important because so many of
us people forget to.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
They skip that step and go right to that.
I want to be on 30 podcaststhis year.
Well, why?
Well, because it'll get meheard by people who don't know
about me.
Why, and just keep saying whyuntil you get to the real reason
of why you really want to be onthese podcasts.
Another way to look at it isask yourself the question what
(04:11):
does success look like to you ifyou've been on X number of
podcasts at the end of the year?
And that kind of can helpdefine what route you're going
to take when you're looking forthe right fit shows.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I love that.
Okay, so start with your goals,then what's the?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
next, who are your ideal clients or who's your
target audience?
Who are you trying to reach?
Is it business owners that arein the healthcare field?
Is it consultants?
Is it marketing agency owners?
Is it a mix of a lot ofdifferent things?
Those are always fun becausethere's a lot of different
things.
Those are always fun becausethere's a lot of podcasts out
(04:47):
there, and there are podcastsliterally for every possible
niche.
You can imagine.
We were just asked to build alist for somebody that helps
people with alternativeinvestments, specifically in
collectibles, and guess what,there's a podcast for that.
I was really that was like Idon't know if there's a podcast
for that.
I was really that was like Idon't know if there's a podcast
(05:08):
about investing in collectibles,but there is.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
You're definitely like in the lead right now for
podcast guest of the year onimperfect marketing.
See, I'm not the only one thatsays this stuff, okay, I'm just
saying okay, start with yourgoals.
Who do you want to reach?
Let's go from there.
You gotta identify your targetaudience, so perfect, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
You've gotten clear on who you wanna reach, or the
buckets of who you wanna reach,and now the fun begins.
You get to start looking forthe shows.
We're lucky because we havesome tools at our disposal to
make it a little bit faster, butyou still have to go through
these steps.
So, step one you're searchingfor keywords.
You're searching, maybe, insocial media.
You've noticed some of yourcompetitors showing up on
(05:54):
podcasts.
Those are great places to start.
You want to talk aboutsomething different, your unique
point of view about whateverthe topic is.
But since you know somebody whowas on that show, chances are
they are taking guests and wouldwelcome you on the show too.
So do some searching in thepodcast platforms.
You can use Google, you can useAI to start asking questions.
(06:18):
What podcasts are marketingagency owners listening to?
You'll get a whole list ofpodcasts.
Then you get to do the funpiece of going to their websites
and poking around, learningabout the hosts, looking to see
does the podcast take guests?
Is it still active?
And once you've answered thosetwo questions, then you want to
(06:40):
start to see, like, how long hasthe podcast been around?
Are people actually listeningto the podcast?
So checking those kind of threebasic criteria off.
Your checklist is a great placeto start.
Then you can start narrowingdown and doing kind of some
finer level details of research.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Let's talk about, like the podcasts themselves,
right?
So are people listening?
How many people really need tobe listening to make it
worthwhile?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
That's such a good question.
We are a fan of target theright audience, not the size of
the audience.
Bigger is not better, becausewhere our clients see the
biggest ROI meaning they'reactually getting leads and new
clients from podcast appearancesgetting leads and new clients
from podcast appearances they'retypically industry-specific
podcasts.
So right now I'm on a showthat's mostly for coaches,
(07:32):
consultants, solopreneurs,business owners.
Those are people that reallyresonate with our services so I
like to go on those shows.
We have clients that are hiringstrategists and she does really
well with creative agencyowners, architects, interior
designers, that sort of thing.
(07:52):
So it's not about the size ofthe audience, it's about who's
listening.
So I'm a big fan of thoseindustry verticals when you can
find shows that are about thebusiness of that particular
business, Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So I love that you said that, because I was in a
meeting a couple months ago witha client in a PR firm and the
PR firm was like well, we needto see and make sure it's
worthwhile.
And I'm like, how do you defineworthwhile?
And they were doing it byaudience size and I'm like I'm
good if there's 10 people, ifthose 10 people are the right
about impressions, right.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
So it's that mindset shift of it's not about the size
of the audience, it's aboutwho's listening.
So, yeah, we're totally alignedthere.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
All right, so let's talk about what are some best
practices when you're pitchingyour information.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
So after you've gone through that checklist of making
sure they take guests stillactive they have, you know, 20
or 30 episodes then you, beforeyou start pitching, go to their
website, look at the about page,learn about the host.
What's their business?
Are they a competitor?
So if they're a competitor, youmight want to think twice about
(09:13):
pitching them, because unlessthere's some unique angle that
you're offering Unless there'ssome unique angle that you're
offering, maybe you could be Idon't know collaboration
partners Chances are they'regoing to say no because you're
doing the exact same thing.
So you might want to rule outcompetitors if you look at the
about page and you see you dothe same thing.
But assuming that you don't,the about page can give you
(09:35):
really great clues.
Like, for example I looked atyour about page, I saw that
you're in Michigan and went toMichigan State, I think,
hopefully for my MBA.
Good job, yeah.
So my uncle was the basketballcoach at Michigan State
University.
So if I were pitching you, Iwould include that little detail
just to create rapport.
That's why you want to look atthat about page, because it can
(09:58):
give you all sorts of greatclues.
That warms up your pitch so youdon't sound like everybody else
that is using the same oldtired template from five years
ago.
It says I love your podcast andI love that episode with Susie
Q and you're just like nope,delete.
And now, with AI, there aresome tells when people are using
(10:22):
AI to write the pitches.
So, anyway, look for uniqueways that you can differentiate
yourself, because if you can gettheir attention in that first
couple of lines, chances arethey'll keep reading.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So when you're pitching and you're talking
about your angle or whatever itis that you talk about, I get
people that are like oh yeah, Ispecialize in marketing, I'd
love to be on your show.
I'm like delete, I'm like Idon't have the capacity to
research you, right, right.
So you want to make it easy.
When I'm trying to determinewho's going to be a guest, I
(10:54):
don't want to be trying tofigure out who you are and what
you do and what value you canadd to my audience.
I want you to do that for me.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yes, that's the idea.
So the other thing too.
So you've looked at the aboutpage.
You've poked around on thewebsite.
You also want to look to seedoes the host have an
application?
Because if they do, they'vecreated a workflow that works
for them and you want to honorthat.
So they have an application,apply via the application.
Don't follow up right away,because they're probably only
(11:22):
going to review it once a monthmaybe.
So that would be the piecearound looking at their website.
What do they do?
Who do they do it for?
What's your angle of how you'regoing to connect with them?
Then, real short what do you do?
Who do you do it for?
It does not.
It should not be 500 words, youknow.
Short paragraph, maybe one ortwo sentences.
(11:44):
Then suggest what you want totalk about.
What do you want to have aconversation about?
Be specific.
Look at previous episodes.
What haven't they talked aboutthat you would align with?
That would make sense for theiraudience.
Give a few takeaways.
What are the listeners going tolearn?
Show them that you understandtheir audience.
Say something specific abouttheir audience, what they might
(12:07):
struggle with and how you canhelp.
Then tell them how they cancheck you out.
Share some previous episodesthat you've done.
If you haven't done anything,then some sort of media
credibility places you've spokenthat sort've done.
If you haven't done anything,then some sort of media
credibility places you've spokenthat sort of thing your website
, wherever they can find you onsocial media.
(12:27):
And if you have a one sheet,that's a great place to share it
too and then tell them howyou're going to share the
episode.
That's the number one pet peevefor most podcasters is.
I had this guest on.
They were great.
They just ghost me when theepisode comes out.
What's up with that?
So share it.
Let them know how you're gonnashare the episode.
Will you share it with yoursocial media followers?
(12:49):
Put it on your website whatyou're gonna do, because that
will go a long way in helpingyou stand out among everybody
else, as long as you actually doit, don't just say you're going
to do it and not do it.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
And don't get me wrong, it's work, I get it.
It's work to promote my podcastevery week right so, it is work,
and they'll understand if youdon't do it on the day the
episode releases right so, butjust work it into your plan so
that you do share it, becausethat's one of the reasons that
they have guests is to growtheir audience too, and it's a
nice way to say thank you, whichI love.
Okay, so one of the things thatyou said is what their audience
(13:22):
is going to learn, and I feellike that is so important.
I didn't screen a guest a longtime ago and they basically made
it into a sales pitch and I'mlike I don't even know if I want
to release this andunfortunately I was behind, so I
had to release it because I wasgetting it too close back in
the day and I mean it washorrible.
(13:43):
There was no value for myaudience.
It was literally a 20-minutecommercial of them selling
themselves.
So what kind of advice are yougiving people, your clients and
those people looking to dopodcast guesting when it comes
to how do they sell, like, howare they taking it to the next
level without selling?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Good question.
So nobody wants to listen to a30-minute sales pitch.
The key to having successfulpodcast interviews is you just
want to create that connectionright.
It's going to accelerate theknow like trust factor.
You need to be prepared with anext step.
So at the end of the interview,share a resource they can
(14:28):
download.
Or if you help people with afree consultation, share that,
but something to get them toconnect with you if it's
something that's of interest tothem to take that next step with
you.
And you can also, throughoutthe interview, you know you
something that's of interest tothem to take that next step with
you.
And you can also, throughoutthe interview you know you can
share stories of how you workwith your clients.
You can share what you do Likeyou can share the different ways
(14:48):
you work with people so thatyou're planting that seed along
the way, so that when you get tothe end, people kind of have a
sense of like, oh okay, julieFry, like her company helps book
people on podcasts and they dolists and okay, I kind of get it
.
Those are the ways and you justwant to be.
It's funny.
I say this to my kids all thetime like be interesting, but
you don't need to be like themost inspiring person around.
(15:11):
Just be a goodconversationalist.
And it's a two way street.
You don't want to hog the dancefloor because people are here
for Kendra.
They're not here for me.
They're following you becauseof you, so we want to be
respectful of that too.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
They're following me because of my amazing guests, so
give them good value, weekafter week after week, because
it's really about figuring outhow to do what we do better.
Right, no matter what yourspecialty is, we're always out
there marketing and selling, andso how we can do that better,
more effectively and efficiently.
Everybody wants that, so that'sgood, okay.
(15:45):
So the next question I have isso you're going to teach
something, right?
But a lot of people strugglewith how they're different, how
they're special.
Oh, there's so many otherpeople that are better than me.
Like, how can I really addvalue?
Because everybody talks about X, y or Z?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
That's a tough one because it's a mindset thing,
right, and I struggle with ittoo sometimes.
I mean, I'm not the only personwho has an agency that does
this.
And so, thinking about whatdoes make you unique, what's
your USP, unique sellingproposition, what does
differentiate you?
So I think that's a good timeto take a step back and think
(16:28):
about.
In your business there are mostlikely people that do the same
thing that you do.
So what's the one thing thatmakes you different?
And if you can't figure thatout, that is okay.
Because, like, back to thisimperfect marketing, to practice
doing this, having aconversation.
Sometimes I say things I'm like, oh, I did not say that, right,
(16:51):
but it's okay.
Like nobody's gonna email meafter the episode and say, julie
, I can't believe you said thatthat way.
It sounded so stupid.
Nobody's going to say that.
So I think the key is to showup, do it anyway, kind of push
through that feeling of impostersyndrome.
And while you're having theseconversations this is the great
(17:12):
benefit of being a guest is youstart to realize what your
unique messaging is, and it's agreat tool.
Honestly, if you're thinkingabout starting a podcast I know
you help people with that is toguest first, because you get
that practice in about figuringout what is my thought
leadership, what am I gonna talkabout?
So those are just some piecesof advice and also recognizing
(17:36):
that sometimes you're gonna feellike am I really qualified to
talk on this podcast?
But you are.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, definitely, and I think I love using podcast
guesting to determine whether ornot you want to have a podcast,
because it's a great way toexpand your network, to start
building a network and also tosee how people run their shows.
I learn so much for my podcastguesting on other people's pod
I'm like, oh, that's cool, I'mtotally stealing that.
(18:02):
You know, I was actuallylistening to podcasts and they
had their guests introducethemselves with stories and I'm
like, oh my gosh, I'm startingthat.
So you know, this year Istarted having my guests
introduce themselves becauseit's way better than some bio
that I could read off of ascreen.
You know that is anywhere from30 seconds to five minutes.
(18:23):
Usually I'm the one thataccidentally sends the five
minute one.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, to experience it and see what you like and
what you don't like, and thenyou can borrow that to create
your own great podcast.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, so this is amazing.
I hope that you guys all arelearning something out of this,
because it really is about thosefundamentals why do you wanna
do it, what's your goal, who'syour audience?
And then, where are theyhanging out, who are they
listening to?
Right and finding those andthen identifying the value you
(18:56):
can add to that podcast fortheir audience is just so
important, and know that you canadd value.
Everybody has a different storyand a different example and a
different twist on everything,so you can still talk about the
same things.
Again, I talk all the time aboutstart with your goals.
Do your target audience.
(19:16):
You know, again, that'simportant stuff in the basics,
but we talked about it in adifferent way today and I think
that that makes it really easyfor people to apply that.
So hopefully this will get youguys confident in wanting to do
podcast guesting.
So before I let you go, julie,I do want to hear from you.
The show is called ImperfectMarketing.
(19:37):
As we said, this marketing isanything but a perfect science.
It's definitely part art andpart science.
What has been your biggestmarketing lesson learned along
the way?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
My biggest lesson is probably marketing doesn't just
happen, you have to schedule it.
I was really struggling withdoing anything to market the
business up until a year ago andthen I sort of had this
epiphany like, oh yeah, we bookpeople on podcasts.
I should probably schedule timein my month to pitch myself for
(20:08):
speaking and podcast guesting,and so I think it was last April
I started doing that and Iblock 90 minutes once a month
with a goal of getting out twoor three pitches, and it's been
great because it has kept mycalendar full.
And then the fun part of onceyou start guesting on more
podcasts, you start gettinginvited onto other people's
(20:29):
podcasts because people hear youor people make an introduction.
So that's been my biggestmistake and lesson is you have
to block the time to do it.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Oh, I love that because I'm a big fan of time
blocking.
It doesn't happen if it's noton the schedule.
I actually have a friend ofmine who he said that his wife
doesn't actually have access tobook anything on his calendar
his work calendar and the reasonwhy is because she'd mess with
him and he does whatever is onhis calendar.
So if, like, she could send himto another state and he'd be
(21:02):
there.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, go buy flowers and make a reservation at our
favorite restaurant.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
He'd have a meeting at a restaurant, yeah, and he'd
be like, oh, oh, this is, thisis us for lunch, ok, so it's
funny.
But, yes, what gets scheduledgets done right, and I think
that that's really important tokeep in mind.
So that's such a great lessonto keep in mind.
So, julie, we'll have yourcontact information and ways to
(21:28):
get in touch with you in theshow notes, but if people are
listening and want to connectwith you, oh, your favorite
social media platform.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
It's LinkedIn and it's Julie Fry Fry like French
fry, not like the boot.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
If they want to connect with you and learn more
about podcast guesting and howyou can help them, where should
they go?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Go to yourexpertguestcom.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Perfect.
Well, I hope you got a lot outof this episode.
I know I did.
I love podcasting and I lovehosting guests that add value,
and so a thing to keep in mindis that you're adding value for
the host.
Right, they wanna have guests,they need you, so hopefully you
will take this opportunity to goahead and see how podcasting
(22:12):
might fit in your business.
Thanks again, so much fortuning in to another episode of
Imperfect Marketing.
Until next time, have a greatrest of your day.
Hi, I'm Kendra Korman .
If you're a coach, consultantor marketer, you know marketing
is far from a perfect scienceand that's why this show is
called Imperfect Marketing.
Join me and my guests as weexplore how to grow your
business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned
along the way.
Hello and welcome back toanother episode of Imperfect
(00:27):
Marketing.
I'm your host, Kendra Korman,and today I am really excited to
be talking about effortlessvisibility and really like how
that is all about podcastguesting with a very special
guest, julie Fry.
Thank you so much for joiningme, julie Hi Kendra.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Thank you so much for joining me, julie Hi Kendra.
Thank you so much for having meso how did you get into podcast
guesting?
That's the question that Ialways get when I'm at a
networking event or a familyfunction.
So how did you start thatbusiness?
Because it is very niche.
It's very specific.
Prior to this business, I ran awomen's networking organization
(01:05):
for women balancingentrepreneurship and motherhood,
and I ran that for seven years.
Early on in the business, I wasinvited to be a guest on
somebody's podcast, and this wasin 2013.
So podcasts were still a thing,but in a much smaller way than
they are now.
I appeared on this podcast.
(01:26):
I did everything wrong.
I didn't listen to an episodebefore I did the interview, I
didn't share it when it wentlive, I didn't have an external
mic, I just you know all thethings, but what good thing came
out of it is relationship withthe host, who I was an early
guest, but she went on to haveher podcast for 11 years.
(01:46):
Over the course of time webecame friends, we became
referral partners.
I can directly track back Idon't know $40,000, $50,000
worth of business to my businessbecause of that one podcast
episode.
That led to other things.
So that is really why I startedthis business in May of 2020,
(02:08):
because women needed a way tostay visible, because the world
was shut down.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
Otherwise, I love that story first off, because
it's just sort of like meant tobe right.
You find something and thenit's like, okay, sure I'll do it
.
I don't know what I'm doing,and then it still turns into
something amazing.
So nobody has enough time to domarketing, right?
That's the thing I get all thetime.
(02:33):
That's part of why my yeahright, me too.
I'm trying to think.
The last time I posted, I'mhoping I'm posting on social
media this week.
How do you find the rightpodcasts, let alone pitch to
them?
Speaker 2 (02:47):
It is a little bit of art and a little bit of science
.
We at my company have aframework that we walk through
when we're looking at eitherright fit podcasts for our
clients that we do it for.
We also build customized listsfor our clients if they have the
resources to do it themselves.
So step number one and youprobably do this as well with
(03:11):
your clients is what's the goal?
What do you want to get out ofyour marketing?
For some clients it's leadgeneration.
For some it's building areferral network.
For some they're launching abook.
So getting clear on what yourgoal is then drives the strategy
around what podcasts to lookfor?
Okay, before you go any further.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Did you hear that?
What's your goal?
Start with the goal, not justlike posting on social media or
guesting on podcasts becausesomeone else did it or someone
else told you to do it.
What's the goal?
Who are you trying to reach andwhat are you trying to do with
it?
I mean, it's so basic, but it'sso important because so many of
us people forget to.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
They skip that step and go right to that.
I want to be on 30 podcaststhis year.
Well, why?
Well, because it'll get meheard by people who don't know
about me.
Why, and just keep saying whyuntil you get to the real reason
of why you really want to be onthese podcasts.
Another way to look at it isask yourself the question what
(04:11):
does success look like to you ifyou've been on X number of
podcasts at the end of the year?
And that kind of can helpdefine what route you're going
to take when you're looking forthe right fit shows.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I love that.
Okay, so start with your goals,then what's the?
Speaker 2 (04:26):
next, who are your ideal clients or who's your
target audience?
Who are you trying to reach?
Is it business owners that arein the healthcare field?
Is it consultants?
Is it marketing agency owners?
Is it a mix of a lot ofdifferent things?
Those are always fun becausethere's a lot of different
things.
Those are always fun becausethere's a lot of podcasts out
(04:47):
there, and there are podcastsliterally for every possible
niche.
You can imagine.
We were just asked to build alist for somebody that helps
people with alternativeinvestments, specifically in
collectibles, and guess what,there's a podcast for that.
I was really that was like Idon't know if there's a podcast
for that.
I was really that was like Idon't know if there's a podcast
(05:08):
about investing in collectibles,but there is.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
You're definitely like in the lead right now for
podcast guest of the year onimperfect marketing.
See, I'm not the only one thatsays this stuff, okay, I'm just
saying okay, start with yourgoals.
Who do you want to reach?
Let's go from there.
You gotta identify your targetaudience, so perfect, okay.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
You've gotten clear on who you wanna reach, or the
buckets of who you wanna reach,and now the fun begins.
You get to start looking forthe shows.
We're lucky because we havesome tools at our disposal to
make it a little bit faster, butyou still have to go through
these steps.
So, step one you're searchingfor keywords.
You're searching, maybe, insocial media.
You've noticed some of yourcompetitors showing up on
(05:54):
podcasts.
Those are great places to start.
You want to talk aboutsomething different, your unique
point of view about whateverthe topic is.
But since you know somebody whowas on that show, chances are
they are taking guests and wouldwelcome you on the show too.
So do some searching in thepodcast platforms.
You can use Google, you can useAI to start asking questions.
(06:18):
What podcasts are marketingagency owners listening to?
You'll get a whole list ofpodcasts.
Then you get to do the funpiece of going to their websites
and poking around, learningabout the hosts, looking to see
does the podcast take guests?
Is it still active?
And once you've answered thosetwo questions, then you want to
(06:40):
start to see, like, how long hasthe podcast been around?
Are people actually listeningto the podcast?
So checking those kind of threebasic criteria off.
Your checklist is a great placeto start.
Then you can start narrowingdown and doing kind of some
finer level details of research.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Let's talk about, like the podcasts themselves,
right?
So are people listening?
How many people really need tobe listening to make it
worthwhile?
Speaker 2 (07:08):
That's such a good question.
We are a fan of target theright audience, not the size of
the audience.
Bigger is not better, becausewhere our clients see the
biggest ROI meaning they'reactually getting leads and new
clients from podcast appearancesgetting leads and new clients
from podcast appearances they'retypically industry-specific
podcasts.
So right now I'm on a showthat's mostly for coaches,
(07:32):
consultants, solopreneurs,business owners.
Those are people that reallyresonate with our services so I
like to go on those shows.
We have clients that are hiringstrategists and she does really
well with creative agencyowners, architects, interior
designers, that sort of thing.
(07:52):
So it's not about the size ofthe audience, it's about who's
listening.
So I'm a big fan of thoseindustry verticals when you can
find shows that are about thebusiness of that particular
business, Okay.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So I love that you said that, because I was in a
meeting a couple months ago witha client in a PR firm and the
PR firm was like well, we needto see and make sure it's
worthwhile.
And I'm like, how do you defineworthwhile?
And they were doing it byaudience size and I'm like I'm
good if there's 10 people, ifthose 10 people are the right
about impressions, right.
Speaker 2 (08:25):
So it's that mindset shift of it's not about the size
of the audience, it's aboutwho's listening.
So, yeah, we're totally alignedthere.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
All right, so let's talk about what are some best
practices when you're pitchingyour information.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
So after you've gone through that checklist of making
sure they take guests stillactive they have, you know, 20
or 30 episodes then you, beforeyou start pitching, go to their
website, look at the about page,learn about the host.
What's their business?
Are they a competitor?
So if they're a competitor, youmight want to think twice about
(09:13):
pitching them, because unlessthere's some unique angle that
you're offering Unless there'ssome unique angle that you're
offering, maybe you could be Idon't know collaboration
partners Chances are they'regoing to say no because you're
doing the exact same thing.
So you might want to rule outcompetitors if you look at the
about page and you see you dothe same thing.
But assuming that you don't,the about page can give you
(09:35):
really great clues.
Like, for example I looked atyour about page, I saw that
you're in Michigan and went toMichigan State, I think,
hopefully for my MBA.
Good job, yeah.
So my uncle was the basketballcoach at Michigan State
University.
So if I were pitching you, Iwould include that little detail
just to create rapport.
That's why you want to look atthat about page, because it can
(09:58):
give you all sorts of greatclues.
That warms up your pitch so youdon't sound like everybody else
that is using the same oldtired template from five years
ago.
It says I love your podcast andI love that episode with Susie
Q and you're just like nope,delete.
And now, with AI, there aresome tells when people are using
(10:22):
AI to write the pitches.
So, anyway, look for uniqueways that you can differentiate
yourself, because if you can gettheir attention in that first
couple of lines, chances arethey'll keep reading.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
So when you're pitching and you're talking
about your angle or whatever itis that you talk about, I get
people that are like oh yeah, Ispecialize in marketing, I'd
love to be on your show.
I'm like delete, I'm like Idon't have the capacity to
research you, right, right.
So you want to make it easy.
When I'm trying to determinewho's going to be a guest, I
(10:54):
don't want to be trying tofigure out who you are and what
you do and what value you canadd to my audience.
I want you to do that for me.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yes, that's the idea.
So the other thing too.
So you've looked at the aboutpage.
You've poked around on thewebsite.
You also want to look to seedoes the host have an
application?
Because if they do, they'vecreated a workflow that works
for them and you want to honorthat.
So they have an application,apply via the application.
Don't follow up right away,because they're probably only
(11:22):
going to review it once a monthmaybe.
So that would be the piecearound looking at their website.
What do they do?
Who do they do it for?
What's your angle of how you'regoing to connect with them?
Then, real short what do you do?
Who do you do it for?
It does not.
It should not be 500 words, youknow.
Short paragraph, maybe one ortwo sentences.
(11:44):
Then suggest what you want totalk about.
What do you want to have aconversation about?
Be specific.
Look at previous episodes.
What haven't they talked aboutthat you would align with?
That would make sense for theiraudience.
Give a few takeaways.
What are the listeners going tolearn?
Show them that you understandtheir audience.
Say something specific abouttheir audience, what they might
(12:07):
struggle with and how you canhelp.
Then tell them how they cancheck you out.
Share some previous episodesthat you've done.
If you haven't done anything,then some sort of media
credibility places you've spokenthat sort've done.
If you haven't done anything,then some sort of media
credibility places you've spokenthat sort of thing your website
, wherever they can find you onsocial media.
(12:27):
And if you have a one sheet,that's a great place to share it
too and then tell them howyou're going to share the
episode.
That's the number one pet peevefor most podcasters is.
I had this guest on.
They were great.
They just ghost me when theepisode comes out.
What's up with that?
So share it.
Let them know how you're gonnashare the episode.
Will you share it with yoursocial media followers?
(12:49):
Put it on your website whatyou're gonna do, because that
will go a long way in helpingyou stand out among everybody
else, as long as you actually doit, don't just say you're going
to do it and not do it.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
And don't get me wrong, it's work, I get it.
It's work to promote my podcastevery week right so, it is work,
and they'll understand if youdon't do it on the day the
episode releases right so, butjust work it into your plan so
that you do share it, becausethat's one of the reasons that
they have guests is to growtheir audience too, and it's a
nice way to say thank you, whichI love.
Okay, so one of the things thatyou said is what their audience
(13:22):
is going to learn, and I feellike that is so important.
I didn't screen a guest a longtime ago and they basically made
it into a sales pitch and I'mlike I don't even know if I want
to release this andunfortunately I was behind, so I
had to release it because I wasgetting it too close back in
the day and I mean it washorrible.
(13:43):
There was no value for myaudience.
It was literally a 20-minutecommercial of them selling
themselves.
So what kind of advice are yougiving people, your clients and
those people looking to dopodcast guesting when it comes
to how do they sell, like, howare they taking it to the next
level without selling?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Good question.
So nobody wants to listen to a30-minute sales pitch.
The key to having successfulpodcast interviews is you just
want to create that connectionright.
It's going to accelerate theknow like trust factor.
You need to be prepared with anext step.
So at the end of the interview,share a resource they can
(14:28):
download.
Or if you help people with afree consultation, share that,
but something to get them toconnect with you if it's
something that's of interest tothem to take that next step with
you.
And you can also, throughoutthe interview, you know you
something that's of interest tothem to take that next step with
you.
And you can also, throughoutthe interview you know you can
share stories of how you workwith your clients.
You can share what you do Likeyou can share the different ways
(14:48):
you work with people so thatyou're planting that seed along
the way, so that when you get tothe end, people kind of have a
sense of like, oh okay, julieFry, like her company helps book
people on podcasts and they dolists and okay, I kind of get it
.
Those are the ways and you justwant to be.
It's funny.
I say this to my kids all thetime like be interesting, but
you don't need to be like themost inspiring person around.
(15:11):
Just be a goodconversationalist.
And it's a two way street.
You don't want to hog the dancefloor because people are here
for Kendra.
They're not here for me.
They're following you becauseof you, so we want to be
respectful of that too.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
They're following me because of my amazing guests, so
give them good value, weekafter week after week, because
it's really about figuring outhow to do what we do better.
Right, no matter what yourspecialty is, we're always out
there marketing and selling, andso how we can do that better,
more effectively and efficiently.
Everybody wants that, so that'sgood, okay.
(15:45):
So the next question I have isso you're going to teach
something, right?
But a lot of people strugglewith how they're different, how
they're special.
Oh, there's so many otherpeople that are better than me.
Like, how can I really addvalue?
Because everybody talks about X, y or Z?
Speaker 2 (16:06):
That's a tough one because it's a mindset thing,
right, and I struggle with ittoo sometimes.
I mean, I'm not the only personwho has an agency that does
this.
And so, thinking about whatdoes make you unique, what's
your USP, unique sellingproposition, what does
differentiate you?
So I think that's a good timeto take a step back and think
(16:28):
about.
In your business there are mostlikely people that do the same
thing that you do.
So what's the one thing thatmakes you different?
And if you can't figure thatout, that is okay.
Because, like, back to thisimperfect marketing, to practice
doing this, having aconversation.
Sometimes I say things I'm like, oh, I did not say that, right,
(16:51):
but it's okay.
Like nobody's gonna email meafter the episode and say, julie
, I can't believe you said thatthat way.
It sounded so stupid.
Nobody's going to say that.
So I think the key is to showup, do it anyway, kind of push
through that feeling of impostersyndrome.
And while you're having theseconversations this is the great
(17:12):
benefit of being a guest is youstart to realize what your
unique messaging is, and it's agreat tool.
Honestly, if you're thinkingabout starting a podcast I know
you help people with that is toguest first, because you get
that practice in about figuringout what is my thought
leadership, what am I gonna talkabout?
So those are just some piecesof advice and also recognizing
(17:36):
that sometimes you're gonna feellike am I really qualified to
talk on this podcast?
But you are.
Speaker 1 (17:42):
Yeah, definitely, and I think I love using podcast
guesting to determine whether ornot you want to have a podcast,
because it's a great way toexpand your network, to start
building a network and also tosee how people run their shows.
I learn so much for my podcastguesting on other people's pod
I'm like, oh, that's cool, I'mtotally stealing that.
(18:02):
You know, I was actuallylistening to podcasts and they
had their guests introducethemselves with stories and I'm
like, oh my gosh, I'm startingthat.
So you know, this year Istarted having my guests
introduce themselves becauseit's way better than some bio
that I could read off of ascreen.
You know that is anywhere from30 seconds to five minutes.
(18:23):
Usually I'm the one thataccidentally sends the five
minute one.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
Yeah, to experience it and see what you like and
what you don't like, and thenyou can borrow that to create
your own great podcast.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah, so this is amazing.
I hope that you guys all arelearning something out of this,
because it really is about thosefundamentals why do you wanna
do it, what's your goal, who'syour audience?
And then, where are theyhanging out, who are they
listening to?
Right and finding those andthen identifying the value you
(18:56):
can add to that podcast fortheir audience is just so
important, and know that you canadd value.
Everybody has a different storyand a different example and a
different twist on everything,so you can still talk about the
same things.
Again, I talk all the time aboutstart with your goals.
Do your target audience.
(19:16):
You know, again, that'simportant stuff in the basics,
but we talked about it in adifferent way today and I think
that that makes it really easyfor people to apply that.
So hopefully this will get youguys confident in wanting to do
podcast guesting.
So before I let you go, julie,I do want to hear from you.
The show is called ImperfectMarketing.
(19:37):
As we said, this marketing isanything but a perfect science.
It's definitely part art andpart science.
What has been your biggestmarketing lesson learned along
the way?
Speaker 2 (19:47):
My biggest lesson is probably marketing doesn't just
happen, you have to schedule it.
I was really struggling withdoing anything to market the
business up until a year ago andthen I sort of had this
epiphany like, oh yeah, we bookpeople on podcasts.
I should probably schedule timein my month to pitch myself for
(20:08):
speaking and podcast guesting,and so I think it was last April
I started doing that and Iblock 90 minutes once a month
with a goal of getting out twoor three pitches, and it's been
great because it has kept mycalendar full.
And then the fun part of onceyou start guesting on more
podcasts, you start gettinginvited onto other people's
(20:29):
podcasts because people hear youor people make an introduction.
So that's been my biggestmistake and lesson is you have
to block the time to do it.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Oh, I love that because I'm a big fan of time
blocking.
It doesn't happen if it's noton the schedule.
I actually have a friend ofmine who he said that his wife
doesn't actually have access tobook anything on his calendar
his work calendar and the reasonwhy is because she'd mess with
him and he does whatever is onhis calendar.
So if, like, she could send himto another state and he'd be
(21:02):
there.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
Yeah, go buy flowers and make a reservation at our
favorite restaurant.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
He'd have a meeting at a restaurant, yeah, and he'd
be like, oh, oh, this is, thisis us for lunch, ok, so it's
funny.
But, yes, what gets scheduledgets done right, and I think
that that's really important tokeep in mind.
So that's such a great lessonto keep in mind.
So, julie, we'll have yourcontact information and ways to
(21:28):
get in touch with you in theshow notes, but if people are
listening and want to connectwith you, oh, your favorite
social media platform.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
It's LinkedIn and it's Julie Fry Fry like French
fry, not like the boot.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
If they want to connect with you and learn more
about podcast guesting and howyou can help them, where should
they go?
Speaker 2 (21:46):
Go to yourexpertguestcom.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Perfect.
Well, I hope you got a lot outof this episode.
I know I did.
I love podcasting and I lovehosting guests that add value,
and so a thing to keep in mindis that you're adding value for
the host.
Right, they wanna have guests,they need you, so hopefully you
will take this opportunity to goahead and see how podcasting
(22:12):
might fit in your business.
Thanks again, so much fortuning in to another episode of
Imperfect Marketing.
Until next time, have a greatrest of your day.
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