September 4, 2025 • 31 mins
In this episode of Imperfect Marketing, I sit down with Nikki Rausch, sales strategist, coach, and master practitioner of Neuro-Linguistic Programming (NLP). We explore how understanding communication at a deeper level can transform the way you sell, market, and connect with others.
Nikki shares her unexpected journey into NLP—beginning with a mentor’s observation about her body language—and how this one insight set her on a path to over 1,200 hours of NLP training. Along the way, we discuss:
Understanding NLP and Its Power in Communication
- What NLP really is (and what it isn’t)
- The three categories of communication—words, body language, and voice quality—and why words alone make up just 7%
- How to adjust your communication style to create stronger connection and trust
Using NLP in Sales and Marketing
- The role of “toward” vs. “away from” motivational traits in persuasive messaging
- How to balance benefit-focused and pain-point-driven language to appeal to more of your ideal audience
- Why repelling the wrong audience is just as important as attracting the right one
Strategic Word Choices That Make or Break Conversions
- The hidden sales-killer in your copy: why “if” slows down buying decisions
- The simple shift to “when” for stronger embedded commands
- How small tweaks in language can make your offers more compelling
Key Takeaways for Marketers and Sales Professionals
- Marketing is for the buyer who is ready now—stop holding back for fear of judgment
- Flexibility in communication attracts more of the right clients without diluting your message
- Why NLP techniques work hand-in-hand with AI-generated content to personalize and convert
Whether you’re a marketer looking to fine-tune your messaging, a sales professional aiming to increase conversions, or simply someone who wants to communicate with greater influence, this episode offers actionable insights you can start using immediately.
Are you ready to unlock the hidden potential in your words, body language, and delivery? Tune in to discover how NLP can transform the way you connect, sell, and market.
Connect with NIKKI RAUSCH:
WEBSITE: https://yoursalesmaven.com/
CONTACT INFO: nikki@yoursalesmaven.com|
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/yoursalesmaven/
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/your_sales_maven/
Linkedin - https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicolerausch
FREE RESOURCE: Free Training: Seal The Deal: Questions that close sales https://yoursalesmaven.com/imperfect
Looking to leverage AI? Want better results? Want to think about what you want to leverage?
Check and see how I am using it for FREE on YouTube.
From "Holy cow, it can do that?" to "Wait, how does this work again?" – I've got all your AI curiosities covered. It's the perfect after-podcast snack for your tech-hungry brain.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, I'm Kendra Korman .
If you're a coach, consultantor marketer, you know marketing
is far from a perfect scienceand that's why this show is
called Imperfect Marketing.
Join me and my guests as weexplore how to grow your
business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned
along the way.
Hello, and welcome back toanother episode of Imperfect
(00:31):
Marketing.
Today, I'm excited to betalking to Nikki.
Today, nikki and I are going tobe talking about NLP, which I
used to think was naturallanguage paragraphs or
programming, but it'sneuro-linguistic programming.
So how did you get into?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
this.
Well, I actually got into itfrom the work that I was doing.
So I was a professional salesrep by trade and I am always
looking for ways to up my gameand, realistically, how I really
got into it is I was sitting inone of my mentor's office and I
(01:07):
was lamenting about somethingthat was going on in my in my
kind of experience and shecommented she made a comment
about something around what Iwas saying and my body language,
and she said there's a realincongruency here.
And I was like what do you meanincongruency?
Body language Like what are youtalking about?
(01:28):
So she started explaining thatshe had studied neuro-linguistic
programming.
Body language is a big part ofit, and so I got really curious
about it, started reading bookson body language and then, about
I don't know, a few weeks later, she called me out of the blue
and said hey, I'm going to takea storytelling workshop in the
Redwood forest in NorthernCalifornia.
Do you want to come now?
(01:49):
I mentioned now a couple oftimes she was my mentor, right?
So I'm like yeah, I want to goanywhere you're going to be and
get to spend a week with you,and in the Redwood forest, that
sounds cool.
Storytelling?
I don't know, but we'll see.
And so we did.
We went to this workshop.
It was a week long workshop andit turned out that the person
who was teaching the workshopwas an NLP teacher, and so I had
(02:13):
a really great experience ather, at her workshop learning
about storytelling, and in thereduring one day at lunch she
offered for those of us whowanted a little bit of extra
coaching from her aroundlearning how to tell a story,
well, that we could stay atlunch and she would do some
individual coaching with us.
(02:33):
And when she was doing herindividual coaching with me, she
made a comment about somethingthat I was doing when I was
telling the story and she saidtry this, try this other thing.
And so just to kind of get intothe details, the weeds here,
she was commenting around thefact that I was smiling the
(02:54):
whole time when I was speakingand I'd been in sales for many
years at this point.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
You're supposed to smile, right.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
That's what you're trained to do.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Even when you're on the phone, you're supposed to
smile, so they can hear thesmile in your voice Exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
And I grew up in an environment.
I was raised by my dad, I havethree brothers and I was always
the like smile, you know, toldas a girl, smile, be pleasant.
And so when she said, did youknow that you smile the whole
time you speak?
I was like, yes, like this isone of my superpowers, like
smiling.
And she said, well, what wouldhappen if you relax the muscles
(03:29):
in your face and just spoke?
And then the rest of the peoplethat were, you know, also
stayed during lunch.
They were like, oh, so muchbetter.
So when I got back the nextweek and I was back out on the
road doing presentations, sowhen I got back the next week
and I was back out on the roaddoing presentations, I remember
(03:51):
at a presentation somebody cameup to me afterwards and again I
was using this like letting themuscles in my face relax and not
, you know, not smiling thewhole time.
And a woman who was in theaudience and there was probably,
like I don't know, 40 peopleand there were quite a few of us
that were presenting that dayand one of the women in the
audience came up to me and shesaid, man, when you speak, you
are so credible and I was like,whoa, this is great feedback.
(04:13):
So I dug really deep.
I started studying NLP with thisteacher.
I used to, for two years, oneweekend a month, get on a plane,
go spend the weekend studyingNLP.
I became a master practitioner.
She ended up moving up toWashington state which where I
was living at the time a fewyears after and asked me to
start assisting her on the side.
So I was using what I waslearning, you know, in my sales
(04:36):
career and having a lot ofsuccess with it, and then I
started assisting.
So at this point I have over1200 classroom hours in NLP and,
just to give some comparison,most people that have the same
certification that I do haveless than 40.
So it's pretty intense theamount of time and what I've
(04:57):
dedicated.
I would say like, I like to godeep, I like to really learn
things and it takes me a longtime because I'm not a fast
learner.
So, yeah, and that's how I gotinto it and I've been able to
incorporate it into what I donow, which, as a sales
strategist and coach, I can helpmy clients from the sales side,
but bringing my NLP experiencein to really build stronger
(05:21):
communication and connectionwith people that they're
interacting with.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
That is such a cool story.
I mean starting off with yourmentor and then taking a trip,
and then, you know, having onetip, even right, that really
changed things.
That's huge, and I feel like Ineed to massage my cheek muscles
so that they can relax.
But I don't know if they dothat because I'm so used to
(05:47):
smiling all the time wheneverI'm like camera light go.
But yes, no, I think that thatis just so cool.
And so now you're a salesstrategist and your company is
your sales maven.
I think Sales maven, Salesmaven, okay, and we'll
definitely always, as always,have contact information for
Nikki and her company in theshow notes, so be sure to check
(06:10):
that out.
So you sort of glazed over it alittle bit.
But what is NLP and what?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
isn't it so?
Neuro-linguistic programmingneuro stands for it really
represents the way you processinformation in your brains, the
way neurons are firing,connections are being made and
linguistics is language.
So that is the way you speak,the way others speak to you, the
patterns that we have aroundthat, any internal dialogue you
(06:37):
have.
And then the programming isabout habits and patterns
because, realistically, most ofus show up and communicate from
a place of a pattern, a habit.
And so when you can start tounderstand habits what is going
on with the way you'recommunicating and the way the
other person's communicating,you can start to pick up.
You can pick things up, but youcan also learn how to make some
(07:00):
adjustments.
So I would say it's the studyof communication that's the most
basic way to explain NLP, andit's learning how to adjust your
style of communication to makeit more comfortable for the
other person to be inconversation with you.
So, for instance, if you'veever been, you know you met
somebody for the first time andyou feel that instant connection
(07:22):
, like you have a an hour longconversation.
You look down at your watch andyou realize like we've been
talking for an hour but it feelslike five minutes because it's
been so easy.
Like.
Those are people who you kindof naturally fall into this like
connection and it's easy to bein conversation with them and it
feels really good and you enjoyit and you almost get this
(07:43):
experience of like I don't knowwhere you've been all my life,
but I feel like we were justdestined to meet, like we were
just meant to know each other.
Right now, on the flip side ofthat, you meet somebody who has
a very different style than youand it can be kind of exhausting
to be in conversation.
So you have a 10 minuteconversation with this person
and it feels like it's been twohours and you feel like you need
(08:04):
a nap after that conversation.
That's somebody who has a verydifferent style, and so it takes
more energy to be in aconversation with somebody who
has a very different style thanyou.
So the way I bring this into mywork is learning how to make
adjustments and this appliesalso for your clients that are
really interested in themarketing aspect of it as well
(08:26):
is that it's learning how toadjust your style.
It's learning how to write copy.
It's learning how to putcontent out into the market that
attracts your ideal client in away that it's like, oh my gosh,
kendra is speaking right to theheart of my issue, my matter,
like the things that are reallyimportant to me, and also, at
(08:48):
the same time, it allows you torepel the people who aren't a
good fit.
So they're not sucking up yourtime, they're not, you know,
getting onto your email list andcausing it to.
You know, get so big that nowyou have to pay all this extra
money for people who are reallynot ideal fit for you.
So that's how I bring it intomy work, so you talked about
smiling and then you talkedabout copywriting.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Okay, so those sound two different things, very
different.
Yeah, how is it both?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
or is it Well, the body language?
So if you think about okay,there was a study done years ago
around the way in which wecommunicate.
So if you think about a piechart, right.
So I think I heard on a podcastthat you love Excel.
Is that true?
I?
Speaker 1 (09:28):
do love.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Excel.
Okay, I thought I heard you saythat.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I do love Excel.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Okay, so you're probably familiar with the
console, right, a pie chart,right, like you can make really
cool pie charts in Excel.
So they say you can breakcommunication down into three
main categories.
So we're communicating inmultiple ways all the time.
So these three categories ofcommunication there's the words.
That's one way of communicating, the words that you actually
choose.
And then there's your facialexpressions and your body
(09:57):
language.
That's another kind of category, facial expressions, body
language, one category.
And then third category isvoice quality.
So that's your cadence, yourpitch, how fast you talk versus
how slow you talk, all thesethings.
So we've got these three slicesof pie in the pie chart.
Now, when you are communicating, live in person with somebody,
(10:18):
you have all three slices of pieto use.
And these categories they saythat 55% of communication is
facial expressions, of bodylanguage.
So that's a pretty big chunk.
So this idea of like smilingversus not smiling, this is one
that will impact that bodylanguage.
So if you're in person withsomebody or on video and they
can actually see you, this willreally take, it will really
(10:42):
matter.
Okay, so that's 55% of the 100%of communication.
Now the next category, the bigcategory, is voice quality.
So they say, that's 38% of yourcommunication.
So when, if you're only on aphone call with somebody, for
instance, or they can just hearyour voice, you know, on a
podcast, for instance, you'rereally only working with that
(11:05):
38%.
Now there's things you can dowith your voice that will
sometimes depict like oh, itsounds like Kendra might be
smiling right now, or oh, itsounds like she's like kind of
teasing, a little like we can dothese things with our voice and
inflection, right.
And then, when it comes to copy, you've got I don't know if
you've figured this out yet, butyou really only have 7% left of
(11:25):
the total communication andthat's your words.
Now there are things that youcan do with the words when
you're writing copy that willrepel people and or attract
people right, like we want toattract our right people.
We want to repel the people whoare the wrong people.
And this is where it reallymatters, because if you only
have 7% of all of communicationto work with when you're writing
(11:49):
copy or when you're putting outmarketing content, that is just
words.
Those words that you choose,they really matter because
they're doing all the work thatyour, your facial expressions
and your, your voice qualitythey don't even get to
contribute, right.
So it's learning how to adjustagain, make some adjustments to
(12:12):
how you're showing up and whatis the message that you're
trying to get across?
Because you can say somethinglive, in person, to somebody
that might come across like ifyou didn't have inflection in
your voice and they couldn't seeyour face, they might think
like dang Kendra's being harsh,but because they can see your
voice or your voice, they canhear your voice because they can
(12:34):
see your face, they might golike, oh, she's being playful,
right, but when you're writingit, if they're reading it as wow
, she's harsh.
Like that's not a good thing ifyou're trying to attract
somebody.
So the words that you choosereally matter when it comes to
copy.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
And I think one of the things that I picked up on
that I think is so important, isthat you want to repel the
people you don't want.
You are not for everybody, youshouldn't be for everybody.
If you try to be for everybody,you're going to fail, right,
because you're going and youdon't want to repel the right
people because you're trying toattract them.
(13:10):
Right, you'd rather repel someother group of people that
aren't the right fit rather thantrying to, like, walk some
middle line, and I think thatthat's so important to note and
that your word choice doesmatter with that.
So let's talk about NLP andmarketing.
What are some tips to betterunderstanding how you can
(13:31):
leverage it with marketing?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Well, one is that it's it's the way that you
phrase your benefit statement,for instance.
So when, when you're talkingabout what are people going to
get out of this program thatyou're offering, for instance,
the one of the things that canhappen is we have what's known
as motivational traits, andthere's different motivational
traits and they're contextspecific and you know there's a
(13:55):
lot that goes into this, but I'mgoing to give you the very
general kind of overview thatwill be helpful, even if you
just take away this right andyou don't go deep into it.
But one motivational trait isthat certain people are
motivated towards havingsomething.
They want to accomplishsomething.
They want to be successful.
They want to achieve something.
(14:16):
That is that towardmotivational trait and that can
show up in language, and I'llgive you an example of it in
just a second.
Now, the opposite and this ison a spectrum, by the way, like
you know one side is going to betoward and on the other side of
the spectrum is the away fromstrategy motivational trait, the
people that want to avoidhaving something bad happen.
(14:39):
They're sick of dealing with X,y and Z, they're ready to let
go of.
Those are the people that aremotivated, that really resonate
with that language.
They're motivated away fromsomething right, they're ready
to get away from something.
And the one example I heardyears ago it's like some people
(14:59):
will run their fastest to win agold medal, whereas other people
will run out flat out fastestto get away from a German
shepherd.
Right, and you might bethinking in certain contexts,
but for you it might be one orthe other, or you might fall
somewhere in the middle of thespectrum.
(15:24):
Now in your marketing copy, whatcan happen is your strong
motivational trait will show upin the way that you write your
copy, and the drawback to thatis you might actually be
eliminating a good portion ofyour ideal clients because
you're not speaking right to theheart of the matter and because
you don't necessarily know.
Oh well, my people are onlytoward people, which is fine if
(15:44):
that's the case, but that'srarely the case.
And so if you write in a lot oftoward language like, the
benefit of this program is youwill achieve this X level of
success.
And another benefit of thisprogram is you will have a new
sense of confidence.
Right, these are all towardtype statements, but if somebody
(16:04):
is like I don't know if Ibelieve that, I don't know if I
can really achieve that.
I don't know if I'll really beconfident.
They'll doubt that in themarketing right and so it won't
ring true to them.
Now, if you're willing to put insome away from language and not
just write all toward language,then it might start to give
some wiggle room.
(16:25):
It might be for the person whois more motivated to.
The away from will be likeyou'll stop second guessing
yourself, right, which you canalso say like being confident
and second guessing yourself arekind of the same thing.
But when you think about who isgoing to be attracted to that
language, it's not always thesame.
So you want to learn how toalternate your copy and so
(16:50):
usually I will say if you'regoing to have, let's say, five
bullet points as far as benefitsof a program, if you're going
to have, let's say, five bulletpoints as far as benefits of a
program, you want to have kindof a mix right, so you might
have three one way and two theother.
So I tend to write towards.
That's the easier for me.
I'm more motivated towardsachieving versus.
(17:10):
You know the like which I thinkin marketing you hear with us
all the time is people arealways like focus on their pain
points, right Like hammer homethose pain points.
But if I only see away fromlanguage and marketing, it feels
very negative to me and itdoesn't attract me.
I'm okay with a little bit, butif it's all like you know
(17:32):
you'll, you won't risk, you know, getting cancer because you're
eating X, y and Z and you'llstop feeling bloated all the
time.
And all these away fromstatements, it's like but what's
the good, what's the upsidehere?
This is all just the downsidestuff.
So we want to mix and match.
So again, if you're going tohave three towards statements,
you should have two away from,and or vice versa, whichever way
(17:55):
feels easier to you, that'sokay.
But you do want to have a mix inyour messaging because it rings
more true to somebody that willfall somewhere on that spectrum
and you won't be eliminatingthe people who have that little
bit of you know kind of aredrawn one way or the other and
(18:15):
that doesn't make themnecessarily an ideal client or
not.
Now, if you only want to workwith high achieving people,
which we see all the time inmarketing, but for some people
that feels unrealistic, now itdoesn't mean that the person
that you're going to work withdoesn't want high achieving, but
that language may not reallyspeak to the heart of them, so
(18:37):
it doesn't mean they won't be agood client.
It just means that you need toadd some flexibility to your
copy.
And I will say that when Ithink about NLP and when I teach
and the work that I do, Ialways go back to my all-time
favorite quote.
This, to me, really speaks tothe heart of what I'm kind of
talking about here, which isblessed the flexible, for they
(18:58):
shall not be bent out of shape.
And what I'm suggesting is tolearn how to add some more
flexibility to how you'reshowing up in a room.
Because if you show up in a roomand you've probably experienced
this where somebody kind ofwalks into a room or they walk
into a conversation with you andthey just have this attitude of
like hey, this is me, take itor leave it, but I'm not going
(19:22):
to change and this is who I amNow, when we see people like
that and we experienced thatfrom the outside we look at
those people and sometimes wethink, like I push away from
that right, like I'm like, oh,that person's coming on a little
too, like they think they'rethe end, all be all and
everybody else is wrong, right,like that doesn't feel good.
(19:45):
So when you can add someflexibility to the way that you
are marketing, it shows that youcan kind of speak to the heart
of anybody's matter.
And again, I'm not talkingabout like to the heart of
anybody's matter.
And again I'm not talking aboutlike I still believe in
repelling people Like I want tobe really clear about this.
But let's not eliminate or andor have people self-select
(20:05):
themselves out of your offerbecause you only use
motivational traits that speakone way or the other.
Add some flexibility and you'llfind that that flexibility will
allow for your ideal clients toshow up more fully, because
it's you're, you're speakingmore to the heart of where, and
(20:26):
we're not all one way or theother.
We tend to fall kind ofsomewhere in the middle of the
spectrum or somewhere on thespectrum, one way or the other.
But we can't just say it's allor nothing, because if it's all
or nothing, people will opt out.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Well, I think it depends too, you know again, on
where they're at in their buyingjourney too, as to what they're
feeling.
You know, if they're ready topull out that credit card that
you know, away from pain pointmight really be the thing that
puts them over, whereas anotherperson might be really excited
and really focused on investingand you know the pain isn't you
(21:03):
know what's getting them there,it's the opportunity right.
And so having that balance, Ithink, is really important.
And I think one thing to noteis, you know we talked about
repelling some people andattracting others Away from and
toward.
Messaging doesn't change thatperson right, it just talks
(21:24):
about their motivation, and soyou can still have a person that
has, that leans towards one orthe other, and still be your
ideal client, and I think thatthat's that's really important.
So can you give me a couple ofexamples of some strategic word
choices?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I know you gave us a little bit here, but here's a
big one in marketing, and so andI know I'm speaking to a
marketing expert, so you know,push back, that's totally fine.
I'm speaking at this from afrom a sales standpoint, and I'm
speaking at it from an NLPstandpoint.
Okay, so one of the ones thatis way overused in marketing and
(22:01):
I would really encourage peopleto take a step back and really
look at this is if there's thislittle word that marketing
people love to use, and the wordis if.
Now, I'm not a poet, I'm notsaying this is not a hard and
fast like never use if in any ofyour marketing.
But when it comes to helpingpeople make the choice to buy,
(22:24):
to sign up for the program,using if is a mistake, and the
reason is is because we saythings like in marketing, we'll
write in our copy, like ifyou're ready for X, y and Z, do
this.
Well, what you're really sayingto the brain is hey, slow down,
think about it, are you sure?
(22:45):
Are you sure you're in?
And when somebody is ready tobuy, you shouldn't be slowing
down the process.
So, instead of using if, likeif this resonates with you and
you're ready to make a change,do this right.
Instead just say ready to makea change, do this.
That's what's known as anembedded command, and it takes
(23:08):
that like forward momentum, like, okay, I'm ready, yes, now I'm
supposed to do this.
It's not like, hey, think aboutit, are you sure?
Because that's not going tohelp you in your marketing.
So this if statement I'm not afan of.
I am also not a fan of using ifwhen it's like if you agree with
these you know, bulleted listhere then this program is for
(23:30):
you.
If you want this, then here'sthis program.
If you are tired of that,here's this program.
I actually want you to use wheninstead.
I think it's stronger.
I think it separates you fromall your competitors out there
who are all using if and it sayswhen you're wanting this, when
(23:51):
you're tired of that.
Here's the answer, because it'swhen.
Is this like?
When this happens?
I am now making the decision.
I'm ready to take that nextstep, not if, not think about it
, not like, are you sure?
No, it is all about when, dothis?
So that's another example.
(24:12):
Is this this if versus when?
I'm a big fan of when, and Ithink you'll find, if you insert
when instead of if, and if yougo back and look at your sales
pages, look at your last, youknow, email promotion.
I have four sales pages with, ifall of her so it's so common
right Like and this is not alike, I'm not bashing anybody
(24:33):
who uses it, because everybodyuses if it's such a common
phrase, but I want you to standout.
We want you to stand out.
We want you to make it easy forpeople to say yes to signing up
for your thing, or buying thisor buying that, or making this
change in their life thatthey're ready to.
So if you go and look at yourstatements, your if statements,
(24:55):
and you just put when in there,I will say that 90% of the time
when works just as well andbetter.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
All right, so I'm definitely got some homework to
be checking that out after this.
This has been a fantasticconversation.
I really really appreciate yourtime and how deeply you're
you're sharing about this right,because I think it's so
important to know really wordchoice matters.
(25:24):
I mean, we're in a world of ai.
I love ai.
I shout it from the rooftops,it saves me a ton of time, but
it's not always doing theconversion right.
You have edit, you have topersonalize and you have to know
enough about your audience toreally be able to make it work
for you.
And, I think, a betterunderstanding of language right
(25:46):
of communication andspecifically what we were
talking about with NLP orneuro-linguistic programming.
I think it's very importantthat people acknowledge that AI
is part of that.
But you're really going to addthat difference maker.
You're going to really createthat balance.
You're going to attract andrepel the right and wrong people
(26:09):
with the edits that you make tothe content that AI creates for
you, and I think you know againthat I think that makes it just
so important right now.
Now, before I let you go, I dohave a question that I ask all
my guests, and that is this showis called Imperfect Marketing,
because marketing is anythingbut a perfect science.
What has been your biggestmarketing lesson learned?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
My biggest marketing lesson learned is that the
reason that I market is for theideal buyer, for the person who
is ready to take action.
And just to explain what I meanby that is I find that a lot of
times people hold back puttingcontent out into the market,
(26:51):
putting their, their offer outinto the market, to marketing
themselves, because they think,well, I don't want to hurt
anybody's feelings, or I don'twant people to judge me, or I
don't want people to think I'mbeing you know, being salesy or
too aggressive, but you aren'tmarketing for the people who
aren't ready to buy.
You're putting yourself outthere and you're marketing for
(27:13):
the person that it's like oh mygosh, like Kendra, where have
you been?
All my life I've been waitingfor you and I needed this right
now, here today.
And it's because you marketedit, because you put yourself out
there, that this is availableand that I can have some
solution that I'm looking for inmy life.
And so I get over very quicklythe like.
(27:35):
I'm worried about people'sjudgments and I'm concerned that
, oh, if I send this email,people are going to unsubscribe.
I don't care anymore.
I send the email for the personthat's like Nikki, I've been
waiting for this offer and I putmyself out there in the podcast
and in the content that I putout into the marketplace, and
whether people agree with it ordon't agree with it, it's not
(27:58):
for the person that's like ohwell, I have a different opinion
and I'm going to clutch mypearls and be offended about
something that Nikki's sayingabout sales.
That's not who I'm marketingfor.
I'm marketing for the personwho's like finally, here's
somebody who's talking aboutsales in a way that resonates
with me and I feel like I couldlearn something from her and I
need her in my life.
(28:18):
That's who I'm marketing for,okay, so I love that because
it's not perfect.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Marketing is not perfect.
That's why this show is calledimperfect marketing, right?
You?
Just you got to go with it too.
You may not think you may notbe sending that email because
you're worried again about whatyou said.
People judging you, and you know, is it ready enough?
Is it polished enough?
Are they going to think youknow something's wrong with my
hair or my voice, or whatever ithappens to be right?
(28:45):
I've said this numerous timesbecause I heard it on a webinar.
This is like I don't know fouror five years ago now, and this
woman said you're just not thatimportant to me.
And it's like, yes, exactly,you are just not that important
to me.
And so, when you take that viewof it, you are that important
to someone else and not yourhair or your.
(29:06):
And so when you take that viewof it, you are that important to
someone else and not not yourhair or your voice or anything
like that, but you're thatimportant to somebody when it
comes to um, if they're ready tobuy right, if you've got the
right fit for what they need,they will be so happy that you
just sent it.
They're not going to be judgingall of those other things
because you know really, you'renot that important right To them
(29:26):
.
They're important to them so,and what they've got going on is
what's important to them, and Ithink that that's that's our
really really good marketinglesson learned for everybody.
So, not if, but when you areready to reach out to Nikki, be
sure to check out the show notes.
She also has a little free meoffer for you guys.
There too, that's there, and Isee, and I always close the show
(29:50):
with if.
So, because you learnedsomething today, we're just
going to skip one and go withbecause because you learned
something today, it would reallyhelp me out if you would rate
and subscribe wherever you'relistening or watching.
Thank you so much for tuninginto another episode of
imperfect marketing and have agreat rest of your day.
Hi, I'm Kendra Korman .
If you're a coach, consultantor marketer, you know marketing
is far from a perfect scienceand that's why this show is
called Imperfect Marketing.
Join me and my guests as weexplore how to grow your
business with marketing tips and, of course, lessons learned
along the way.
Hello, and welcome back toanother episode of Imperfect
(00:31):
Marketing.
Today, I'm excited to betalking to Nikki.
Today, nikki and I are going tobe talking about NLP, which I
used to think was naturallanguage paragraphs or
programming, but it'sneuro-linguistic programming.
So how did you get into?
Speaker 2 (00:45):
this.
Well, I actually got into itfrom the work that I was doing.
So I was a professional salesrep by trade and I am always
looking for ways to up my gameand, realistically, how I really
got into it is I was sitting inone of my mentor's office and I
(01:07):
was lamenting about somethingthat was going on in my in my
kind of experience and shecommented she made a comment
about something around what Iwas saying and my body language,
and she said there's a realincongruency here.
And I was like what do you meanincongruency?
Body language Like what are youtalking about?
(01:28):
So she started explaining thatshe had studied neuro-linguistic
programming.
Body language is a big part ofit, and so I got really curious
about it, started reading bookson body language and then, about
I don't know, a few weeks later, she called me out of the blue
and said hey, I'm going to takea storytelling workshop in the
Redwood forest in NorthernCalifornia.
Do you want to come now?
(01:49):
I mentioned now a couple oftimes she was my mentor, right?
So I'm like yeah, I want to goanywhere you're going to be and
get to spend a week with you,and in the Redwood forest, that
sounds cool.
Storytelling?
I don't know, but we'll see.
And so we did.
We went to this workshop.
It was a week long workshop andit turned out that the person
who was teaching the workshopwas an NLP teacher, and so I had
(02:13):
a really great experience ather, at her workshop learning
about storytelling, and in thereduring one day at lunch she
offered for those of us whowanted a little bit of extra
coaching from her aroundlearning how to tell a story,
well, that we could stay atlunch and she would do some
individual coaching with us.
(02:33):
And when she was doing herindividual coaching with me, she
made a comment about somethingthat I was doing when I was
telling the story and she saidtry this, try this other thing.
And so just to kind of get intothe details, the weeds here,
she was commenting around thefact that I was smiling the
(02:54):
whole time when I was speakingand I'd been in sales for many
years at this point.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
You're supposed to smile, right.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
That's what you're trained to do.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Even when you're on the phone, you're supposed to
smile, so they can hear thesmile in your voice Exactly.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
And I grew up in an environment.
I was raised by my dad, I havethree brothers and I was always
the like smile, you know, toldas a girl, smile, be pleasant.
And so when she said, did youknow that you smile the whole
time you speak?
I was like, yes, like this isone of my superpowers, like
smiling.
And she said, well, what wouldhappen if you relax the muscles
(03:29):
in your face and just spoke?
And then the rest of the peoplethat were, you know, also
stayed during lunch.
They were like, oh, so muchbetter.
So when I got back the nextweek and I was back out on the
road doing presentations, sowhen I got back the next week
and I was back out on the roaddoing presentations, I remember
(03:51):
at a presentation somebody cameup to me afterwards and again I
was using this like letting themuscles in my face relax and not
, you know, not smiling thewhole time.
And a woman who was in theaudience and there was probably,
like I don't know, 40 peopleand there were quite a few of us
that were presenting that dayand one of the women in the
audience came up to me and shesaid, man, when you speak, you
are so credible and I was like,whoa, this is great feedback.
(04:13):
So I dug really deep.
I started studying NLP with thisteacher.
I used to, for two years, oneweekend a month, get on a plane,
go spend the weekend studyingNLP.
I became a master practitioner.
She ended up moving up toWashington state which where I
was living at the time a fewyears after and asked me to
start assisting her on the side.
So I was using what I waslearning, you know, in my sales
(04:36):
career and having a lot ofsuccess with it, and then I
started assisting.
So at this point I have over1200 classroom hours in NLP and,
just to give some comparison,most people that have the same
certification that I do haveless than 40.
So it's pretty intense theamount of time and what I've
(04:57):
dedicated.
I would say like, I like to godeep, I like to really learn
things and it takes me a longtime because I'm not a fast
learner.
So, yeah, and that's how I gotinto it and I've been able to
incorporate it into what I donow, which, as a sales
strategist and coach, I can helpmy clients from the sales side,
but bringing my NLP experiencein to really build stronger
(05:21):
communication and connectionwith people that they're
interacting with.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
That is such a cool story.
I mean starting off with yourmentor and then taking a trip,
and then, you know, having onetip, even right, that really
changed things.
That's huge, and I feel like Ineed to massage my cheek muscles
so that they can relax.
But I don't know if they dothat because I'm so used to
(05:47):
smiling all the time wheneverI'm like camera light go.
But yes, no, I think that thatis just so cool.
And so now you're a salesstrategist and your company is
your sales maven.
I think Sales maven, Salesmaven, okay, and we'll
definitely always, as always,have contact information for
Nikki and her company in theshow notes, so be sure to check
(06:10):
that out.
So you sort of glazed over it alittle bit.
But what is NLP and what?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
isn't it so?
Neuro-linguistic programmingneuro stands for it really
represents the way you processinformation in your brains, the
way neurons are firing,connections are being made and
linguistics is language.
So that is the way you speak,the way others speak to you, the
patterns that we have aroundthat, any internal dialogue you
(06:37):
have.
And then the programming isabout habits and patterns
because, realistically, most ofus show up and communicate from
a place of a pattern, a habit.
And so when you can start tounderstand habits what is going
on with the way you'recommunicating and the way the
other person's communicating,you can start to pick up.
You can pick things up, but youcan also learn how to make some
(07:00):
adjustments.
So I would say it's the studyof communication that's the most
basic way to explain NLP, andit's learning how to adjust your
style of communication to makeit more comfortable for the
other person to be inconversation with you.
So, for instance, if you'veever been, you know you met
somebody for the first time andyou feel that instant connection
(07:22):
, like you have a an hour longconversation.
You look down at your watch andyou realize like we've been
talking for an hour but it feelslike five minutes because it's
been so easy.
Like.
Those are people who you kindof naturally fall into this like
connection and it's easy to bein conversation with them and it
feels really good and you enjoyit and you almost get this
(07:43):
experience of like I don't knowwhere you've been all my life,
but I feel like we were justdestined to meet, like we were
just meant to know each other.
Right now, on the flip side ofthat, you meet somebody who has
a very different style than youand it can be kind of exhausting
to be in conversation.
So you have a 10 minuteconversation with this person
and it feels like it's been twohours and you feel like you need
(08:04):
a nap after that conversation.
That's somebody who has a verydifferent style, and so it takes
more energy to be in aconversation with somebody who
has a very different style thanyou.
So the way I bring this into mywork is learning how to make
adjustments and this appliesalso for your clients that are
really interested in themarketing aspect of it as well
(08:26):
is that it's learning how toadjust your style.
It's learning how to write copy.
It's learning how to putcontent out into the market that
attracts your ideal client in away that it's like, oh my gosh,
kendra is speaking right to theheart of my issue, my matter,
like the things that are reallyimportant to me, and also, at
(08:48):
the same time, it allows you torepel the people who aren't a
good fit.
So they're not sucking up yourtime, they're not, you know,
getting onto your email list andcausing it to.
You know, get so big that nowyou have to pay all this extra
money for people who are reallynot ideal fit for you.
So that's how I bring it intomy work, so you talked about
smiling and then you talkedabout copywriting.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Okay, so those sound two different things, very
different.
Yeah, how is it both?
Speaker 2 (09:16):
or is it Well, the body language?
So if you think about okay,there was a study done years ago
around the way in which wecommunicate.
So if you think about a piechart, right.
So I think I heard on a podcastthat you love Excel.
Is that true?
I?
Speaker 1 (09:28):
do love.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Excel.
Okay, I thought I heard you saythat.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
I do love Excel.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
Okay, so you're probably familiar with the
console, right, a pie chart,right, like you can make really
cool pie charts in Excel.
So they say you can breakcommunication down into three
main categories.
So we're communicating inmultiple ways all the time.
So these three categories ofcommunication there's the words.
That's one way of communicating, the words that you actually
choose.
And then there's your facialexpressions and your body
(09:57):
language.
That's another kind of category, facial expressions, body
language, one category.
And then third category isvoice quality.
So that's your cadence, yourpitch, how fast you talk versus
how slow you talk, all thesethings.
So we've got these three slicesof pie in the pie chart.
Now, when you are communicating, live in person with somebody,
(10:18):
you have all three slices of pieto use.
And these categories they saythat 55% of communication is
facial expressions, of bodylanguage.
So that's a pretty big chunk.
So this idea of like smilingversus not smiling, this is one
that will impact that bodylanguage.
So if you're in person withsomebody or on video and they
can actually see you, this willreally take, it will really
(10:42):
matter.
Okay, so that's 55% of the 100%of communication.
Now the next category, the bigcategory, is voice quality.
So they say, that's 38% of yourcommunication.
So when, if you're only on aphone call with somebody, for
instance, or they can just hearyour voice, you know, on a
podcast, for instance, you'rereally only working with that
(11:05):
38%.
Now there's things you can dowith your voice that will
sometimes depict like oh, itsounds like Kendra might be
smiling right now, or oh, itsounds like she's like kind of
teasing, a little like we can dothese things with our voice and
inflection, right.
And then, when it comes to copy, you've got I don't know if
you've figured this out yet, butyou really only have 7% left of
(11:25):
the total communication andthat's your words.
Now there are things that youcan do with the words when
you're writing copy that willrepel people and or attract
people right, like we want toattract our right people.
We want to repel the people whoare the wrong people.
And this is where it reallymatters, because if you only
have 7% of all of communicationto work with when you're writing
(11:49):
copy or when you're putting outmarketing content, that is just
words.
Those words that you choose,they really matter because
they're doing all the work thatyour, your facial expressions
and your, your voice qualitythey don't even get to
contribute, right.
So it's learning how to adjustagain, make some adjustments to
(12:12):
how you're showing up and whatis the message that you're
trying to get across?
Because you can say somethinglive, in person, to somebody
that might come across like ifyou didn't have inflection in
your voice and they couldn't seeyour face, they might think
like dang Kendra's being harsh,but because they can see your
voice or your voice, they canhear your voice because they can
(12:34):
see your face, they might golike, oh, she's being playful,
right, but when you're writingit, if they're reading it as wow
, she's harsh.
Like that's not a good thing ifyou're trying to attract
somebody.
So the words that you choosereally matter when it comes to
copy.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
And I think one of the things that I picked up on
that I think is so important, isthat you want to repel the
people you don't want.
You are not for everybody, youshouldn't be for everybody.
If you try to be for everybody,you're going to fail, right,
because you're going and youdon't want to repel the right
people because you're trying toattract them.
(13:10):
Right, you'd rather repel someother group of people that
aren't the right fit rather thantrying to, like, walk some
middle line, and I think thatthat's so important to note and
that your word choice doesmatter with that.
So let's talk about NLP andmarketing.
What are some tips to betterunderstanding how you can
(13:31):
leverage it with marketing?
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Well, one is that it's it's the way that you
phrase your benefit statement,for instance.
So when, when you're talkingabout what are people going to
get out of this program thatyou're offering, for instance,
the one of the things that canhappen is we have what's known
as motivational traits, andthere's different motivational
traits and they're contextspecific and you know there's a
(13:55):
lot that goes into this, but I'mgoing to give you the very
general kind of overview thatwill be helpful, even if you
just take away this right andyou don't go deep into it.
But one motivational trait isthat certain people are
motivated towards havingsomething.
They want to accomplishsomething.
They want to be successful.
They want to achieve something.
(14:16):
That is that towardmotivational trait and that can
show up in language, and I'llgive you an example of it in
just a second.
Now, the opposite and this ison a spectrum, by the way, like
you know one side is going to betoward and on the other side of
the spectrum is the away fromstrategy motivational trait, the
people that want to avoidhaving something bad happen.
(14:39):
They're sick of dealing with X,y and Z, they're ready to let
go of.
Those are the people that aremotivated, that really resonate
with that language.
They're motivated away fromsomething right, they're ready
to get away from something.
And the one example I heardyears ago it's like some people
(14:59):
will run their fastest to win agold medal, whereas other people
will run out flat out fastestto get away from a German
shepherd.
Right, and you might bethinking in certain contexts,
but for you it might be one orthe other, or you might fall
somewhere in the middle of thespectrum.
(15:24):
Now in your marketing copy, whatcan happen is your strong
motivational trait will show upin the way that you write your
copy, and the drawback to thatis you might actually be
eliminating a good portion ofyour ideal clients because
you're not speaking right to theheart of the matter and because
you don't necessarily know.
Oh well, my people are onlytoward people, which is fine if
(15:44):
that's the case, but that'srarely the case.
And so if you write in a lot oftoward language like, the
benefit of this program is youwill achieve this X level of
success.
And another benefit of thisprogram is you will have a new
sense of confidence.
Right, these are all towardtype statements, but if somebody
(16:04):
is like I don't know if Ibelieve that, I don't know if I
can really achieve that.
I don't know if I'll really beconfident.
They'll doubt that in themarketing right and so it won't
ring true to them.
Now, if you're willing to put insome away from language and not
just write all toward language,then it might start to give
some wiggle room.
(16:25):
It might be for the person whois more motivated to.
The away from will be likeyou'll stop second guessing
yourself, right, which you canalso say like being confident
and second guessing yourself arekind of the same thing.
But when you think about who isgoing to be attracted to that
language, it's not always thesame.
So you want to learn how toalternate your copy and so
(16:50):
usually I will say if you'regoing to have, let's say, five
bullet points as far as benefitsof a program, if you're going
to have, let's say, five bulletpoints as far as benefits of a
program, you want to have kindof a mix right, so you might
have three one way and two theother.
So I tend to write towards.
That's the easier for me.
I'm more motivated towardsachieving versus.
(17:10):
You know the like which I thinkin marketing you hear with us
all the time is people arealways like focus on their pain
points, right Like hammer homethose pain points.
But if I only see away fromlanguage and marketing, it feels
very negative to me and itdoesn't attract me.
I'm okay with a little bit, butif it's all like you know
(17:32):
you'll, you won't risk, you know, getting cancer because you're
eating X, y and Z and you'llstop feeling bloated all the
time.
And all these away fromstatements, it's like but what's
the good, what's the upsidehere?
This is all just the downsidestuff.
So we want to mix and match.
So again, if you're going tohave three towards statements,
you should have two away from,and or vice versa, whichever way
(17:55):
feels easier to you, that'sokay.
But you do want to have a mix inyour messaging because it rings
more true to somebody that willfall somewhere on that spectrum
and you won't be eliminatingthe people who have that little
bit of you know kind of aredrawn one way or the other and
(18:15):
that doesn't make themnecessarily an ideal client or
not.
Now, if you only want to workwith high achieving people,
which we see all the time inmarketing, but for some people
that feels unrealistic, now itdoesn't mean that the person
that you're going to work withdoesn't want high achieving, but
that language may not reallyspeak to the heart of them, so
(18:37):
it doesn't mean they won't be agood client.
It just means that you need toadd some flexibility to your
copy.
And I will say that when Ithink about NLP and when I teach
and the work that I do, Ialways go back to my all-time
favorite quote.
This, to me, really speaks tothe heart of what I'm kind of
talking about here, which isblessed the flexible, for they
(18:58):
shall not be bent out of shape.
And what I'm suggesting is tolearn how to add some more
flexibility to how you'reshowing up in a room.
Because if you show up in a roomand you've probably experienced
this where somebody kind ofwalks into a room or they walk
into a conversation with you andthey just have this attitude of
like hey, this is me, take itor leave it, but I'm not going
(19:22):
to change and this is who I amNow, when we see people like
that and we experienced thatfrom the outside we look at
those people and sometimes wethink, like I push away from
that right, like I'm like, oh,that person's coming on a little
too, like they think they'rethe end, all be all and
everybody else is wrong, right,like that doesn't feel good.
(19:45):
So when you can add someflexibility to the way that you
are marketing, it shows that youcan kind of speak to the heart
of anybody's matter.
And again, I'm not talkingabout like to the heart of
anybody's matter.
And again I'm not talking aboutlike I still believe in
repelling people Like I want tobe really clear about this.
But let's not eliminate or andor have people self-select
(20:05):
themselves out of your offerbecause you only use
motivational traits that speakone way or the other.
Add some flexibility and you'llfind that that flexibility will
allow for your ideal clients toshow up more fully, because
it's you're, you're speakingmore to the heart of where, and
(20:26):
we're not all one way or theother.
We tend to fall kind ofsomewhere in the middle of the
spectrum or somewhere on thespectrum, one way or the other.
But we can't just say it's allor nothing, because if it's all
or nothing, people will opt out.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Well, I think it depends too, you know again, on
where they're at in their buyingjourney too, as to what they're
feeling.
You know, if they're ready topull out that credit card that
you know, away from pain pointmight really be the thing that
puts them over, whereas anotherperson might be really excited
and really focused on investingand you know the pain isn't you
(21:03):
know what's getting them there,it's the opportunity right.
And so having that balance, Ithink, is really important.
And I think one thing to noteis, you know we talked about
repelling some people andattracting others Away from and
toward.
Messaging doesn't change thatperson right, it just talks
(21:24):
about their motivation, and soyou can still have a person that
has, that leans towards one orthe other, and still be your
ideal client, and I think thatthat's that's really important.
So can you give me a couple ofexamples of some strategic word
choices?
Speaker 2 (21:40):
I know you gave us a little bit here, but here's a
big one in marketing, and so andI know I'm speaking to a
marketing expert, so you know,push back, that's totally fine.
I'm speaking at this from afrom a sales standpoint, and I'm
speaking at it from an NLPstandpoint.
Okay, so one of the ones thatis way overused in marketing and
(22:01):
I would really encourage peopleto take a step back and really
look at this is if there's thislittle word that marketing
people love to use, and the wordis if.
Now, I'm not a poet, I'm notsaying this is not a hard and
fast like never use if in any ofyour marketing.
But when it comes to helpingpeople make the choice to buy,
(22:24):
to sign up for the program,using if is a mistake, and the
reason is is because we saythings like in marketing, we'll
write in our copy, like ifyou're ready for X, y and Z, do
this.
Well, what you're really sayingto the brain is hey, slow down,
think about it, are you sure?
(22:45):
Are you sure you're in?
And when somebody is ready tobuy, you shouldn't be slowing
down the process.
So, instead of using if, likeif this resonates with you and
you're ready to make a change,do this right.
Instead just say ready to makea change, do this.
That's what's known as anembedded command, and it takes
(23:08):
that like forward momentum, like, okay, I'm ready, yes, now I'm
supposed to do this.
It's not like, hey, think aboutit, are you sure?
Because that's not going tohelp you in your marketing.
So this if statement I'm not afan of.
I am also not a fan of using ifwhen it's like if you agree with
these you know, bulleted listhere then this program is for
(23:30):
you.
If you want this, then here'sthis program.
If you are tired of that,here's this program.
I actually want you to use wheninstead.
I think it's stronger.
I think it separates you fromall your competitors out there
who are all using if and it sayswhen you're wanting this, when
(23:51):
you're tired of that.
Here's the answer, because it'swhen.
Is this like?
When this happens?
I am now making the decision.
I'm ready to take that nextstep, not if, not think about it
, not like, are you sure?
No, it is all about when, dothis?
So that's another example.
(24:12):
Is this this if versus when?
I'm a big fan of when, and Ithink you'll find, if you insert
when instead of if, and if yougo back and look at your sales
pages, look at your last, youknow, email promotion.
I have four sales pages with, ifall of her so it's so common
right Like and this is not alike, I'm not bashing anybody
(24:33):
who uses it, because everybodyuses if it's such a common
phrase, but I want you to standout.
We want you to stand out.
We want you to make it easy forpeople to say yes to signing up
for your thing, or buying thisor buying that, or making this
change in their life thatthey're ready to.
So if you go and look at yourstatements, your if statements,
(24:55):
and you just put when in there,I will say that 90% of the time
when works just as well andbetter.
Speaker 1 (25:04):
All right, so I'm definitely got some homework to
be checking that out after this.
This has been a fantasticconversation.
I really really appreciate yourtime and how deeply you're
you're sharing about this right,because I think it's so
important to know really wordchoice matters.
(25:24):
I mean, we're in a world of ai.
I love ai.
I shout it from the rooftops,it saves me a ton of time, but
it's not always doing theconversion right.
You have edit, you have topersonalize and you have to know
enough about your audience toreally be able to make it work
for you.
And, I think, a betterunderstanding of language right
(25:46):
of communication andspecifically what we were
talking about with NLP orneuro-linguistic programming.
I think it's very importantthat people acknowledge that AI
is part of that.
But you're really going to addthat difference maker.
You're going to really createthat balance.
You're going to attract andrepel the right and wrong people
(26:09):
with the edits that you make tothe content that AI creates for
you, and I think you know againthat I think that makes it just
so important right now.
Now, before I let you go, I dohave a question that I ask all
my guests, and that is this showis called Imperfect Marketing,
because marketing is anythingbut a perfect science.
What has been your biggestmarketing lesson learned?
Speaker 2 (26:30):
My biggest marketing lesson learned is that the
reason that I market is for theideal buyer, for the person who
is ready to take action.
And just to explain what I meanby that is I find that a lot of
times people hold back puttingcontent out into the market,
(26:51):
putting their, their offer outinto the market, to marketing
themselves, because they think,well, I don't want to hurt
anybody's feelings, or I don'twant people to judge me, or I
don't want people to think I'mbeing you know, being salesy or
too aggressive, but you aren'tmarketing for the people who
aren't ready to buy.
You're putting yourself outthere and you're marketing for
(27:13):
the person that it's like oh mygosh, like Kendra, where have
you been?
All my life I've been waitingfor you and I needed this right
now, here today.
And it's because you marketedit, because you put yourself out
there, that this is availableand that I can have some
solution that I'm looking for inmy life.
And so I get over very quicklythe like.
(27:35):
I'm worried about people'sjudgments and I'm concerned that
, oh, if I send this email,people are going to unsubscribe.
I don't care anymore.
I send the email for the personthat's like Nikki, I've been
waiting for this offer and I putmyself out there in the podcast
and in the content that I putout into the marketplace, and
whether people agree with it ordon't agree with it, it's not
(27:58):
for the person that's like ohwell, I have a different opinion
and I'm going to clutch mypearls and be offended about
something that Nikki's sayingabout sales.
That's not who I'm marketingfor.
I'm marketing for the personwho's like finally, here's
somebody who's talking aboutsales in a way that resonates
with me and I feel like I couldlearn something from her and I
need her in my life.
(28:18):
That's who I'm marketing for,okay, so I love that because
it's not perfect.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
Marketing is not perfect.
That's why this show is calledimperfect marketing, right?
You?
Just you got to go with it too.
You may not think you may notbe sending that email because
you're worried again about whatyou said.
People judging you, and you know, is it ready enough?
Is it polished enough?
Are they going to think youknow something's wrong with my
hair or my voice, or whatever ithappens to be right?
(28:45):
I've said this numerous timesbecause I heard it on a webinar.
This is like I don't know fouror five years ago now, and this
woman said you're just not thatimportant to me.
And it's like, yes, exactly,you are just not that important
to me.
And so, when you take that viewof it, you are that important
to someone else and not yourhair or your.
(29:06):
And so when you take that viewof it, you are that important to
someone else and not not yourhair or your voice or anything
like that, but you're thatimportant to somebody when it
comes to um, if they're ready tobuy right, if you've got the
right fit for what they need,they will be so happy that you
just sent it.
They're not going to be judgingall of those other things
because you know really, you'renot that important right To them
(29:26):
.
They're important to them so,and what they've got going on is
what's important to them, and Ithink that that's that's our
really really good marketinglesson learned for everybody.
So, not if, but when you areready to reach out to Nikki, be
sure to check out the show notes.
She also has a little free meoffer for you guys.
There too, that's there, and Isee, and I always close the show
(29:50):
with if.
So, because you learnedsomething today, we're just
going to skip one and go withbecause because you learned
something today, it would reallyhelp me out if you would rate
and subscribe wherever you'relistening or watching.
Thank you so much for tuninginto another episode of
imperfect marketing and have agreat rest of your day.
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