November 18, 2025 • 61 mins
In this episode of Improv and Magic, we spotlight the transformative world of improvisation with guest Jill Eickmann, co-founder and Artistic Director of Leela Improv Theatre. Known for her holistic approach to improv, Jill shares insights on ensemble building, truthful artistic play, and the healing power of performance.
Jill Eickmann is a nationally recognized improvisational theatre artist, director, and educator. She co-founded Leela Improv, a bi-coastal training center and theatre company based in San Francisco and Raleigh. With over 20 years of experience, Jill has designed Leela’s seven-level improv curriculum, rooted in authenticity, collaboration, and joyful play.
Her background includes an MA in Drama Therapy from the California Institute of Integral Studies, training with renowned institutions such as iO, Annoyance Theatre, and Upright Citizens Brigade, and corporate workshops for companies like Google, YouTube, Facebook, IBM, Visa, and McKinsey & Company.
Beyond teaching, Jill is a performer and drama therapist who integrates improvisation with therapeutic practices, emphasizing connection, creativity, and self-expression.
In this episode, Jill discusses the mission of Leela Improv: truthful, artistic play that blends authenticity with ensemble-driven creativity. She explores how improv fosters community, risk-taking, and resilience, both on stage and in everyday life. Jill shares her journey from studying acting and drama therapy to building one of the most respected improv training centers in the U.S.
Tune in to hear Jill Eickmann’s inspiring perspective on improvisation as both an art form and a tool for personal growth. This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about improv, theatre, or creative collaboration.
Find out more about Jill at jilleickmann.com, and follow Leela Improv Theater at leela-nc.com.
Don't forget to like and review! For more information on LD Madera and how you can sponsor an episode of Improv and Magic, visit ldmadera.com.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Hello, friends. Hey there everybody.
How are you all doing? I'm your friend LD Madera, and
this is another episode of Improv and Magic.
We have another great guest on the show today.
Today's guest is an incredible performer named Jill Eichmann.
(00:24):
In our conversation, Jill sharesher journey into theater and
improv, as well as her experiences in teaching improv
and building her own theater. And what you'll definitely hear
from Jill is the importance of finding the joy in everything
that you're doing. Jill is a wonderful person to
get to know, and I really hope you enjoy our conversation
(00:46):
today. Here now is my guest, Jill
Eichmann. Well, my friends, I'm very happy
to have here on improv and magicthe wonderful and always lovely
Jill Eichmann. Hi, Jill.
(01:08):
Thanks so much for being here. Hi.
LD Thanks for having me. How's your summer been so far?
Oh, it's been hot, It's been hot.
Well, we're in Florida, So what else is new?
I know, I know, It's been particularly hot this year, huh?
Yeah, it has, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Do you and your family typicallyplan like summer vacations,
(01:29):
summer outings or things like that?
We're not the best planners, being improvisers.
Yeah, one of the best planners. We got to live by the scene of
our pants. But we were just talking about
that. So we're out.
We're back in the Southeast. My husband and I grew up in the
Southeast, so I'm Texas and Florida.
He's Florida. So we we're back in the
Southeast after being in the West Coast for 20 years.
(01:50):
And we're like, wow, let's explore, you know, let's come
back and explore some places. So we're thinking about taking a
train to Greensboro, you know, with my daughter.
So I think that that'll be maybenext weekend or maybe even this
week when we'll see. We'll see what fate decides.
Yeah, you're such the improviser.
Yes, yes. Well, I'm so excited to learn
(02:11):
all about you, Jill. So I always like to start at the
very beginning. Where did you grow up and what
was growing up like for you? Yes.
Yeah, so I grew up in a suburb of Dallas and Dallas place
called Plano, TX. Are you familiar with Plano, TX
at all? Somewhat.
Yeah, a lot of people know us from Frito Lay is based there.
What else is based there? Anything else based there?
(02:33):
I had a good friend whose dad works for Frito Lay, and every
time I went over to their house,they had chips galore.
I might just have so many chips.So the time I reference Plano,
TX. But it's kind of funny because
my dad was an entrepreneur, so my dad dad was.
If you've ever watched the show Halt and Catch Fire, do you know
that show? No, I haven't heard of that one.
(02:55):
I've watched a couple episodes that I was like watching.
I was like, Oh my God, this was this was my upbringing.
This is crazy. So apparently this area of
Dallas, Fort Worth back in the 80s was considered like the
Silicon Valley of Texas. So it was like right when like
PCs were starting to come out like personal computers and
stuff. And my dad had his own computer
(03:16):
business. He didn't sell to individuals,
he sold to companies. So it's sort of like part of
that whole thing that was happening in Texas.
And it was, it was hard, you know, like my dad had his own
business. My aunt moved out there to, to
work for my dad's business. It was sort of like, you know,
this is what we're doing to makemoney.
(03:38):
You know, my dad was taking a bunch of risks and shortly
thereafter the business went bankrupt.
This other company like kind of took him to court.
And that company was the other company was being sort of
corrupt and they had a better lawyer.
So it was just like a really hard time for my family.
And then the recession happened and then my dad was like
bouncing from business to business for a while, different
(03:59):
companies. And then he decided to go back
to school. So like my dad got his PhD in
international business and entrepreneurship, so he's going
back to school. And then my mom was working full
time as a dental hygienist. And then I had a brother that
was born when I was like 10 years old.
So there's like, a lot going on in my family.
(04:21):
And then after my dad completed his PhD, we moved to Miami
because he got his first business professor job at FIU.
So that's sort of like I grew upmostly in Plano, TX, you know,
And then I moved to Miami when Iwas in high school.
Yeah. Yeah.
It definitely sounds like there was a lot going on when you were
growing up. Was it sort of hard to kind of
(04:43):
grow up in that ongoing environment where things are
always moving? Yeah, I mean, I think I, it's
interesting thinking back on it because like I felt like, like
there was always conversations at the dinner table about about
business, you know, and about the business and the, you know,
my aunt would always come over and talk business.
My mom would talk business, too.There was always that kind of
(05:06):
going on. But I also feel like my family
was really funny. You know, there was always humor
and joking around and stuff. So I definitely got that from my
family, too. But there is definitely like,
risk taking in my family, which I think is a big part of who I
am. Yeah, yeah.
What was your transition like from Texas to Florida?
Oh, it was interesting. Like, you know, being in
(05:29):
Florida, right? Like, you know, being in Plano,
TX, like I remember like football was like almost like a
religion in Texas, you know, like if you've ever seen Friday
Night Lights, like that's definitely like Texas.
Everybody kind of the whole towncomes together for the football
games. So that's like a big part of it,
(05:50):
you know, just like being one ofmany blondes.
Texas, you know, at least I was.I was a natural blonde, but I
don't know if anybody else was, you know, so like that.
And then moving to Florida, you know, being like the whitest
girl in Miami, you know, like, just like people would touch my
skin and be like, what's wrong? Like, just turn pink.
(06:11):
Like, what's going on with you? Yeah.
So it's like, interesting. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, I love hearing about
how you mentioned that your family was pretty funny growing
up. Uh huh.
Did that have any sort of effecton you?
Yeah, I know it's interesting. Like I, I think the funny in my
family was definitely like kind of like A1 upmanship funny.
(06:32):
You know, there was definitely like competitive funny around
it. So, you know, to get in you'd
have to like kind of find your way, you know, to like one up.
And I never felt like I was the funniest in my family, you know,
So I had to like compete. And then and then I was also a
very sensitive child too. Like I was very, you know what
(06:53):
you would say dramatic, you know, as I got into the teen
years and very sensitive and I would cry all the time.
So like, I kind of lived in thatspace of like, I want to be
funny, but I can't compete with the funny, you know?
And then also I'm very sensitiveand dramatic, but I wasn't
getting sort of like held and supported in that sensitive
(07:14):
place, you know, So it's definitely influenced who I am.
I feel like it's like I love theimprov world because it feels
familiar, like my family, you know, it's like, oh, I'm with
like other funny people, like I love this.
But at the same time, it's like somebody, please, like I'm also
sensitive and I'm, you know, I've got some sad feelings too,
you know, Can you help? Can you hold me in that?
(07:36):
You know? So it's an interesting
conundrum. Yeah.
I think most of us kind of go through that during our
adolescent period where we just realized we have all these
feelings and we're at an age where we don't really know what
to do with them. Is that kind of similar to what
you went through? Totally.
And then like I found theater, which was really cool.
It's like, oh, OK, I can put allmy feelings here.
(07:59):
And then people have have to wit, witness them.
I'm on stage. You have to look at me.
You know, you can't ignore me. So I definitely found the stage
to be very healing for me, yeah.Were you kind of a drama nerd
back then? Oh yeah, definitely, definitely.
Yeah. So like, when I moved to Miami,
I went to high school there at Palmetto High School.
(08:21):
I don't know if you're familiar with Palmetto.
And it was like an interesting time to move to Miami, too,
because it was like, I think it was a year after Andrew had
happened, Hurricane Andrew. And a bunch of my friends, like,
had lived through that like the year before.
And I remember them talking about it and being like, yeah,
we had to buy a new house or, you know, our insurance didn't
get coverage or, you know, like,people just have been families
(08:44):
went through so much during thattime.
And then the school that I went to, apparently, like, they had a
great theater program like the year before, but Andrew
destroyed the whole theater. It just, like, destroyed the
whole auditorium that they used and everything.
So the drama teacher there, like, built out a theater out of
the classroom that they were working out of, you know, so
(09:07):
they just kind of like had to make do.
And then the auditorium never, they never got the funds to like
rebuild it or anything, you know.
So it's kind of an interesting time to go through that.
And I definitely felt like my theatre classmates, we were just
so like go getters, you know, it's like we didn't have all the
funding. It was a public school, you
know, like we had to fight for like things that we wanted to
(09:29):
do. The theatre teacher was a little
bit checked out. He was probably depressed, you
know, going through all that stuff, but we just like made
shit happen, you know? So I think that definitely
informed who I am too. It's like, yeah, people aren't
going to, you know, you're not going to have the phenomenal
theatre program or the phenomenal teacher that's going
to take you so far. It's like you got to you got to
(09:49):
kind of come together as a community and make it happen if
you want it. So it sounds like the community
played a big role in helping youreally grow, is that right?
Definitely, definitely. And I feel like with you, that's
something that has continued to progress throughout your career.
Why do you feel like community is such an essential thing and
(10:12):
how has it helped you? Yeah, why is it such an
essential thing? Other than finding people that
are weird like you. I know well, I think it's just
something that I'm attracted to to like just like we're not
doing this. I never really felt like
internally I'm doing this to be famous.
(10:32):
You know, I it's like I'm doing this because I want to connect
with people. Like, that's just, that's what
where it's been most fun, you know, like I just even remember
being 8 to 10 years old and inviting friends over for play
dates. And we would like make little
skits and we would, you know, record ourselves on our little
tape recorders and do audio plays.
(10:54):
And it wasn't about like, let's make sure we're performing this
for everybody. You know, it's just, it was for
us, you know, it's like, oh, let's do something creative
together. So that's just always been like,
that's where it's most fun, you know, when we're just doing it
for each other, we're doing it for each other.
Yeah, I definitely have a lot ofchildhood memories where I was
(11:18):
performing, but for nobody, like, no audience, just in my
room. And just, you know, when you
grow up as an only child, you kind of have to create your own.
You know, you create your own world, right?
Because there's no one else to kind of be with you in that
craziness. Yeah, yeah, I have an only
child. It's so interesting because I'm
(11:39):
a, I'm a middle child, which is I just think is kind of an
interesting thing too, because Ihad an older sister who never
wanted to play with me. She was, no, would let me play
with her and her friends and shethought it was a pest and stuff,
you know. So it's like I kind of had to, I
had to like go looking for friends, you know, to play with
(12:00):
me. Yeah.
This is an unfair question, but I might as well ask who's funny,
you, you, your brother or your sister?
I think my brother, honestly my brother, because he's very, he's
kind of the dark horse. Like you don't, you don't see it
coming. It's really interesting because
like some of his stuff, it's like he's very quiet.
(12:21):
He's very introverted. But like he'll just be kind of
like sitting at the dinner table, sort of like taking it
all in, you know, and just waiting, waiting, waiting.
And then he'll just like, Bam, just like, come in and we're
like, what, you know, like, and it's so funny.
And he's really good with, like,puns and word play and stuff.
(12:42):
And it's just like, oh, you know, it's very smart.
It's very smart humor. Yeah, yeah.
He's the comedy shark that knowswhen to strike.
Yes, where I feel like I'm much more like my brother always says
I'm kind of like Sarah Silverstone, you know?
Like I'm like, you know, I've got the faces and I'm very
expressive and like kind of goofy, you know.
(13:03):
So I'm a little more out there where he's a little, you know,
more kind of comes in like, likeyou said, like a shack.
I always envied people like that.
I mean, I'm kind of good at that, but most of the time it's
a miss. And not only is it a miss, but
everyone else can tell it's a miss, and that's the worst
(13:23):
feeling. Yes, yes.
So I believe that everyone who starts to get into performing,
they always have that well, theyusually have that aha moment
where they're performing in a show and they feel the audience
and the audience is feeling them.
And that reaffirms that, yes, this is what I want to do.
(13:45):
I'm curious, Jill, did you ever have that sort of aha moment?
Yeah, I mean, I, I studied, I studied theater in college.
I got my BFA in acting at University of Florida.
So it's sort of like on that track of like, OK, I'm going to
do stage shows, scripted theater, things like that.
And then I found an improv groupon on campus very early and this
(14:09):
improv teacher was really cool. And the fact that she didn't
just focus on comedy, so she wasreally interested.
We called her like she did the Sark method.
She does those like poster, she's an author and she does
those posters that are like how to be an artist and they're like
super colorful rainbow colors. She has like journals that are
all about like, living your lifejuicy, you know, like it's very
(14:32):
like self help with creativity. So she was really into all that
Sark stuff. And so she would sort of, you
know, integrate those like messages and those mindsets into
the improv stuff that we would do.
And she'd sort of like lead the class almost like at the
beginning, she would like say a sermon in a sense, like in the
(14:53):
beginning of class about like, you know, living this like
creative life and have some message, you know, about that.
And then we would divide up intogroups and do improv stuff in
different groups. But she was like very much like
hippy dippy. She was a Reiki master.
She was a witch, self-proclaimedwitch, you know, like so she
(15:14):
integrated a lot of this kind ofenergy spirituality into it.
So it was like very, I felt likeit was very like drama therapy,
you know, I didn't even and I and I just thought that that's
what improv was. I didn't know that there was
like improv comedy or improv, you know, different levels of
improv was like, Oh, this is my exposure to improv.
So this is improv, you know, so it was it was very influential
(15:36):
to me. And then I started getting, I
would say, I'm sorry if I'm tangenting here from the
question, but like I was a scripted theatre major and back
then, like I was very much the ingenue look like I got cast as
the sweet young thing, you know,the ingenue.
And I started to notice when I would get cast in those roles,
(15:59):
like I was like, what is my objective?
Like do I do I have a want, you know, And I kept on like trying
to analyze the script and it'll be so hard.
And I would notice other people in the cast would, would find
their objective like right away.And I'd be like, and I'd get so
much like criticism from my teachers was like, Jill, you
need to find an objective. I was like, but what is it like
(16:22):
I'm the objective, you know whatI mean?
Like as the ingenue, like I was an Amadeus, you know, that I
played Costanza, which was Mozart's wife, and she was
literally like in a love triangle with Saleris and
Amadeus, right? And they were fighting over her.
But like, what was her objective?
Like, I just wrestled so much with that.
(16:42):
Like, what do I want, you know? And then when I started doing
improv, I was like, oh, I don't have to be the ingenue anymore.
Like I can, I can be like a bitch.
I can be a toy soldier, I can bea blender.
I can be anything in improv and I can have a want, you know, I
don't have to like follow the script and try to figure it out.
(17:05):
You know, it's like I can just declare a want and I can have
it, you know. So I think that was like improv
was very influential for me in that way.
Just started like allowing me tohave more creativity in my
acting and then I started getting cast in other roles.
Like I was like, oh, I didn't just get the ingenues anymore.
I got cast as like Truvi and Steel Magnolias, which was
(17:25):
really fun, more like character actors and I loved it.
It was so fun. Did you perform in a lot of
scenes where you were a blender?I'm trying to remember, I don't
know, it's hard to remember improv scenes.
Do you have a hard time? Oh yeah, yeah, sometimes I
forget. Literally like 30 minutes later.
Yeah, It's like you're so in themoment.
(17:45):
I it's yeah. It's like, it's so interesting
to like those times doing improv.
The group was called Theater Strike Force at University of
Florida. I think it's still going on.
I think it's still a troop goingon.
But like there was some chat group going on with Theater
Strike Force alumni and people were trying to figure out who
was the president at different years.
And I was like, was I the president?
(18:07):
I was like, I don't know. I don't remember.
Was I? And they were like, yeah, Jill,
you were the president. I was like, I have no idea.
I don't remember, you know, like, I don't remember.
I just remember the feeling, right?
The the community feeling of it all, yeah.
You know, I love hearing about how when you got into improv, it
really opened up a lot more for you as far as being able to play
(18:30):
different roles. And I love hearing that because
I feel like nowadays, improv hasreally become a lot more valued
when it comes to theater. Now directors really crave for
that. In your opinion, why do you
think improv has become such a valuable tool for actors?
(18:50):
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I think I don't have as
much experience with like film and TV and that genre, but I
know that that they're asking for more creativity from from
actors too, you know, like to not just follow a script, you
know, like they're wanting things to like kind of jump off
the page or be more interesting or creative.
(19:13):
They're actually looking for like Co writers.
I feel like for a lot of these ads and like ads are so like
quick, you know, it's like 3 second ads like you have to, you
have to do something eye-catching, you have to be
specific. So they need the actor to be
able to fuel that. Here's an interesting question,
and I've only asked this a few times and I've gotten kind of
(19:37):
different answers from the people I've asked, but I'm
interested to hear your answer to this.
Do you think of yourself as an improviser or an actor who
improvises? Lately I've been saying improv
artist so. I like that term too.
Yeah, like I've been saying, I do say improvisor 'cause I feel
(19:59):
like, but spelled SOR, 'cause I feel like what that connotes is
like actor, you know, like like you spell actor.
But improv artist feels much more true to me because I I
consider myself an artist, you know?
What I'm doing is is a creative act.
(20:20):
You know, I've heard you in the past speak a lot about the value
of vulnerability. How important is vulnerability
in improv, and what has it done to improve your performance?
Yeah, yeah. I feel like it's, it's scary
definitely as an improv improv artist, as an improv artist, to
(20:46):
go to those places, especially in the world where improv can be
so synonymous with comedy. You know, it's sort of like
unexpected, like the audience islike, I didn't sign up for this,
you know? But when you go there, the
laughs, like when the laughs happened, they're just so much
more satisfying, so much more satisfying.
(21:08):
Lately I've been really inspiredby like clown work.
I've been doing like a lot of clown work lately.
And the work of Andy Kaufman is really inspiring to me.
And I love that. Like, I've watched some of his
old stuff. I love that line that he would
walk of like the audience didn'tknow.
They like, they like they were confused.
They're like, do I laugh? Do I not laugh?
(21:31):
Is it OK to laugh? You know, and it's like you're
really taking this the audience on this journey of it's, it's
vulnerable, right? And it's a it's, it's really
scary as an artist to go there. But for some reason I'm
compelled to go there. Like it's like, OK, this is
going to be messy. This is going to be really messy
(21:51):
and daring. And it's going to be probably
something that the audience isn't ready for or wasn't
expecting. But isn't that fun, though, to
give them something that they'renot expecting?
Yeah. Yeah, I say all the time to
never underestimate the audiencebecause I know a lot of people
are like, I don't want to do thevulnerable stuff because the
(22:12):
audience isn't going to laugh atthat.
But then again, I've had a lot of experiences where I've done
shows and there's no laughs, butthe audience is really on the
edge of their seats and I get a lot of satisfaction from that,
more than scenes that make people laugh.
Would you agree? Yes, I agree.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And it might be me too.
(22:34):
Like it might just be my like, oh, I can't compete.
You know, it's like my family stuff of like, oh, I'm not going
to be able to compete with all these other improvisers who are
like bam, bam, bam, bam bam, youknow, super funny, super witty.
I just don't feel like I'm that kind of improviser.
So I've just been like, OK, whatam I good at?
I feel like my wheelhouse is themore vulnerable, slow, patient
stuff. I'm not afraid of it, right?
(22:57):
So I'll just tend to lean into that.
Going back to your early beginnings of learning improv,
were you surprised at all that improv doesn't always have to
lean towards comedy? So.
I surprised at that. No, I feel like I was surprised
about it does lean towards comedy because I think because
my early experience was that college improv group and I was
(23:19):
just like, oh, this is improv like where you do vulnerable
scenes. And we used to do like social
activist like like skits. We'd create skits about like
drug abuse and rape and we'd like tour them around campus,
you know, it's like, so it was more like social activist
theater. And we did short form and long
form and comedy too. But like, it was so many other
(23:42):
things too. So when I moved to New York
after I graduated college, I studied at UCB and I was like,
oh, this is comedy. They all they do is comedy, you
know? And I was just kind of like, oh,
OK, it's sort of wake woken up to is like, oh, OK, this is
comedy. But I liked it.
(24:04):
I liked it. I think I loved, I loved
Saturday Night Live. I grew up watching Saturday
Night Live. I love it, but I do feel like
improv can be so much more, yeah.
Well, you've also had the experience of teaching improv to
a lot of people. When you show your students the
value of vulnerability, do you see them get kind of like
(24:26):
shocked that you would teach them that?
Yes, I do. I do.
And it's, I think it's a it's something that I as a teacher
have kind of gotten into my like, you know, I don't know if
you call it your spiel or your rap at the top of a of a class,
I make sure to say it just because people who've never done
(24:49):
improv before, a lot of people think, Oh, I got to be funny
here, right? Or maybe they have done improv a
bunch and they still say feel I got to be funny here, you know,
so I meant, sure, make sure to tell folks about like our style
at Lila. And I say, you know, our style
at Lila is truthful artistic play, right?
We never say comedy, you know, and what we're doing with
improv. So I always say I want to be
(25:11):
very clear that there's no pressure here to be funny.
There's also no pressure here tobe witty or to be smart or to be
entertaining or to be interesting or creative.
You know, all those things that we want to be in our
performance, that's the product,right?
So what we're shooting for in improv is the process.
So the process of just being honest and having a truthful,
(25:34):
honest reaction in the moment. And what's so cool about that is
when you do that, the byproduct of that most likely will be
funny, witty, smart, entertaining, creative,
interesting, all those things you're wanting to be, right?
So just like, be truthful and honest in the moment and you'll
get the things you're wanting tobe.
(25:54):
Yeah, yeah. As instructors, we've all had
the experience of teaching our beginners class and having that
one guy come in who's labeled himself as Mr. Funny Guy, right?
Yes. How do you kind of help Mr. or
Missus Funny person kind of realize they don't have to be on
(26:16):
like that all the time? Yeah, like sometimes I, if I see
that person even before class starts and I'm like, OK, then I
have an exercise in my back pocket that I'll teach as a warm
up. So, you know, like telephone,
like the game of telephone. So I was like, OK, we're going
to play a game kind of like the game telephone.
Does anybody remember this game when they were kids?
I was like, OK, you remember this game, Tell me the rules of
(26:37):
telephone. So I'll have that person kind of
tell me the rules like, oh, you whisper in the person's ear next
to you, little short phrase, andthen you do your best to
remember that phrase and pass itto the next person, right.
And go right. And then I'll say, does anybody
remember that one kid on the playground that would, like,
purposefully, like, change the phrase?
Does anybody remember that kid? And then some people were like,
(26:59):
yeah, yeah. It was like, was anybody that
kid? And I was in somebody.
And, you know, usually that guy will like, you know, raise his
hand. And I was like, no shame, no
judgement. I love that kid.
That kid is very funny and very awesome.
But for this next exercise, let's just not be that kid, OK?
Let's just really play the game of telephone, right?
(27:20):
Like, let's what? What are the rules?
You do exactly what the person next to you does, you know, even
if it changes slightly, just do what the person right directly
before you does. Do the best of your ability,
right? So we'll play the game a few
times, and then I'll talk about it afterwards.
I was like, oh, tell me about, tell me about the funny moments.
What moments made you laugh, Youknow?
(27:41):
And they're like, oh, there was this one moment when it slightly
changed or somebody accidentallylaughed, and that was
incorporated. You know, I was like, yeah,
yeah, yeah. And I was like, so the funny
happened because of those, like,organic mistakes, right?
And because we're being such good listeners, we're being such
good observers, and we're creating the funny together.
(28:03):
It's a collaborative experience experience.
And we're not forcing the funny,right?
I remember we're just being truthful and honest in the
moment. We're doing whatever we're
noticing and making it, you know, just continuing it and
going. And I was like, and I was like,
OK, remember when I was talking about that kid?
And I was like, yeah, I was like, that kid is stand up.
(28:26):
And I'll go like, so that kid isfunny.
They're planning, they're jokes,they're hilarious, right?
That's stand up. I love stand up.
I love watching stand up. But that's stand up.
What we just did is improv. And that's where the funny
happens, right? Is through our team effort, our
observations and, and just surrendering to the truth of the
(28:46):
moment. And then they're like, oh, OK,
OK. Yeah, based on my experience, I
believe that the best laughs youget in improv are the ones you
don't plan on. Right.
Exactly. Yeah.
And it's scary. I think it's scary for that kid,
you know, to be like, oh, I really want to be funny here.
(29:08):
I really want people to like me,you know?
So there's a lot of, like, unpacking we got to do to really
allow those people to like, hey,you're going to be great.
Just allow whatever comes out ofyou to be perfect.
Perfect. You know, you don't need to plan
here. Yeah.
There's usually this imaginary line that divides stand up
(29:28):
comedy and improv comedy, but attimes people do try to cross
that line. Do you find that some people
have trouble crossing that line?Do you think it becomes
difficult, for example, for a stand up comedian to cross the
line and get into improv? I guess it depends on the
person. I'm thinking about my students
(29:49):
right now. There's this one guy who's been
taking some drop in classes and he's a stand up and he's so
smart, you know, and he's so andhe's willing, like I feel like
he's willing to like fail and not be funny.
And I do think that that's something that stand up
comedians have that maybe improvisers don't.
Is that that resiliency to bomb?I feel like as improvisers we
(30:14):
get a lot. We have a lot of safety
mechanisms in place. You know, we build each other
up, we support each other. We can just edit the scene if we
want to. There's a lot of safety in
improv where there's not as muchsafety in stand up, I feel like.
So I do feel like stand ups got a little bit of advantage with
(30:34):
like they're just, they're just tougher skin than those
supervisors. Yeah, yeah.
Have you done stand up yourself?Thought about it and we do teach
stand up at just the funny, but I've never really had the
courage to give it a shot because in all honesty, Jill, I
really don't think of myself as a funny person.
(30:57):
And if you put me on stage and say make this audience laugh, I
wouldn't know what to do. Yeah, quite honestly.
I'm the same, I'm the same. I did.
I did 1 stand up show and I was 10 years old.
I tell people I feel like I peaked at 10 cuz like I did the
stand up show and then I was like, it was the best thing I
feel like I've ever done in my life.
(31:18):
And then I haven't done it again.
So I'm like, but I like it was afifth grade graduation show and
I was super, I was super shy in elementary school, like a super
rule follower. I didn't, I didn't want to do
anything bad. I would cry if it, if the
teacher looked at me funny, you know?
And so was the last day of school and they had a talent
(31:41):
show and a bunch of my little girlfriends and stuff.
They wanted to do some like choreographed dance with
matching outfits. And I'm like, Nope, I'm going to
do a stand up act. I'm going to go up there by
myself and I'm going to make people laugh because I like came
from this funny family and I watched stand up shows with my
family and SNL and all that kindof stuff.
So I imitated all my teachers and I was like, like, super
(32:04):
brave. I can't even, I can't even
imagine myself doing it. And I did it.
And I got like, huge laughs. And then the thing I wasn't
expecting was the teachers came up to me afterwards and I was
like, am I in trouble? Oh, God, I'm in trouble.
I'm going to get so much trouble.
But they were like, Jill, I had no idea.
You were so funny and like, you were great, you know?
(32:27):
But yeah, I killed it, you know,so I don't feel like I've had a
bomb experience. You know, I need to, I need to
have one. I need to have one 'cause I'm
like you. I feel like I'm like you.
I, I don't, I wouldn't know how to.
I feel like if somebody put me on the spot, I wouldn't instead
make, make us laugh. I wouldn't know what to do.
Yeah. Other than your funny family,
(32:48):
what would you say were sort of your influences into becoming a
performer? The influence for becoming a
performer. Yeah.
I just, yeah, I think it's back to just that kind of emotional
sensitivity and just needing a place, needing almost like a
(33:13):
canvas to let it out. You know, I just had so much
like, sensitive emotions in me and I, I needed a Yeah, other
than I just needed a place to let those feelings out.
Was there any sort of comedy that you were a fan of back
then? Yeah.
And I do think like, yeah, influences were just like I was
(33:33):
a huge TV kid. I mean, I sat this close to the
TV and, you know, I just was. I watched a lot of Saturday
Night Live late at night with myfamily.
They let me watch stuff that I probably should have watched.
But yeah, like a lot of stand upshows, a lot of Saturday Night
Live. Yeah, definitely.
(33:54):
I loved all that stuff. Bad TV.
Yeah, yeah. I have a lot of friends who know
that I perform improv and teach improv, and they always say
something to the effect of, oh, I really admire what you do,
it's so great. And I say, well, you know, if
you're interested, you should take a class.
And the reaction is usually, oh,no, I, I can't do that stuff.
(34:18):
Is that a reaction that you see a lot?
And why do you think people get afraid to sign up for an improv
class? Yeah, I think it again, it's
that pressure to be funny, right?
Like it's improv has become so synonymous with comedy and, and
people's like identity of like, I'm not funny, Like that's not
me, or I'm not quick or I'm not witty, you know, because that's
(34:41):
all they've seen. Like in pop culture, they see
whose line is it anyway, right? Or they see Saturday Night Live
and then like they don't have any other influences of what
improv could be. Yeah, it's really interesting.
And but then I do feel like people are starting to realize
the the personal growth aspect of improv and that's something
that I advocate a lot of with mydrama therapy background like
(35:04):
that. It's, it's more than just
becoming a performer. It's just good for you to like
work on yourself, your confidence, how to connect with
other people, communication skills, all that kind of stuff.
You've given me an effortless Segway.
Yeah. Because I'm always fascinated by
how improv has that ability to extend outside of being a
(35:27):
performance art. You have been applying improv as
a psychotherapy tool and a way of helping your patients that
deal with mental illnesses. How did you make that discovery
that improv can be used for something other than performing?
Yeah, I mean, I think my first earliest influence was that
(35:48):
teacher that I was talking aboutin college.
Like, she definitely was a dramatherapist, even though she
didn't know. She was like, she was definitely
doing some cool stuff with us. And then when I moved to New
York, I moved there a month before 911 happened.
Yeah. So I was taking classes at UCB.
It was kind of getting my feet wet in a big city.
(36:09):
And I'm like, Oh my God, you know, like waiting tables,
trying to pay my rent, like all that kind of stuff, charging all
my UCB classes on my credit card, you know, like all that
kind of stuff. So it was a really, but that was
a really scary time to be an artist then.
And I just, I remember having this moment soon after 911 and
(36:32):
just kind of dealing with all that like scariness in the world
and thinking like, jeez, my lifeis precious.
You know, it was just so far that not that far away from all
these, these horrible things that happened to so many people,
like and, and acting didn't feellike I was serving any, anybody,
(36:54):
you know, like like I was just sort of being selfish.
It was hard. It was a very hard thing for me
to, to just focus on me. I think like I think I've always
struggled with that like kind oflike the ingenue role.
Like it's like it didn't feel like outward facing.
It was just like I struggled a lot with like kind of like
(37:16):
eating disorders and like feeling like I never fit the
mold and look the part and I would focus a lot on me and then
it would cause a lot of like anxiety.
But anytime I was able to focus on somebody else and support
somebody else, my anxiety started going away.
So I was like, huh, I was thinking about that.
(37:36):
I was like, I, my life is precious.
I'd like to do something a little bit more selfless than
selfish. I was like, I've heard of like
art therapy. I've heard of dance therapy.
I wonder if there's something that like improv therapy because
improv was very therapeutic for me.
I was like, I'd love to be able to support people in that way
and be that type of improv teacher that that college improv
(37:58):
teacher was for me. And her name is her name is
Heather Parody. I'd love to give a shout out to
her if anybody is listening to this.
Her name used to be Heather Roberts, Heather parody.
She works out of Connecticut now.
I think she works with youth now.
But like I, I was thinking aboutthat.
So I, I literally started looking into like improv therapy
(38:20):
and then I found out about dramatherapy and I was like, oh, this
is interesting. And then another person that I
really wanted to connect with before I moved to New York, that
teacher, Heather Roberts, Heather parody connected me
with. Why am I blanking on his name?
Oh, Martin Demotte. Have you heard of Martin
Demotte? Yes.
(38:41):
Yeah. So she connected me with Martin
Demotte before I moved to New York 'cause she was like, oh,
you would really dig Martin, Jill.
He's very much into psychology and like healing and stuff like
that. Connect with him.
So like a month before I moved to New York to decide to like,
go and study there. I wanted to study with him
'cause he was living in New Yorkat the time.
And I had this like 30 minute conversation with him and it
(39:03):
just was like, I love this man. Like he's like doing improv
about connection and community and it's from the heart.
And it's not about like the the goal being the funny, you know?
And then he passed away right before I left for New York.
And so after that, it was sort of like chasing different ways
(39:25):
to get that education that I would have gotten with Martin.
So I just like found different teachers that studied with him.
And then when I found out about the drama therapy, for whatever
reason, I had in the back of my head, like maybe I read it
somewhere or I heard it from somewhere that he had a
psychology degree, like he had some background in psychology.
(39:47):
And so I was like, well, maybe that's what I need to do.
I need to go down this like pathand I need to study counseling
psychology or something like that.
And so I said, I, I, I applied for two schools.
One was in San Francisco and onewas in New York. 1 was at NYU.
I was in San Francisco and I didn't get into the one at NYU
(40:07):
And I was like, well, OK, but I got into the one in San
Francisco and I moved across thecountry and did it.
And then the ironic thing is oneday, like after I got licensed
as a psychotherapist and I went,got all my hours.
This took like 10 years post graduation.
I was kind of Googling him Martin d'amato's like, oh, I
wonder like I just would, I wantto like learn about him more and
(40:30):
his his legacy. And apparently he got an
honorary degree some school, like he never got a degree in
psychology or anything. He never studied it.
It's just they gave him this honorary degree at Columbia
because he taught all these improv classes and stuff to
people. So they give an honorary degree
from the counseling program. And I was like, Oh my God, I
(40:52):
spent all this money into all these hours.
I didn't need to do all that, you know?
But I'm glad I did. Like, I'm glad I did.
I learned so much. And when I first applied to that
school, you know, most schools they have you write some sort of
statement of purpose, like how are you going to use this
degree? And in my statement of purpose,
I said I want to be an improv teacher, director that sort of
(41:14):
directs improv teachers from theinside out.
And I've always noticed how whenpeople come to an improv class
for the same, for the first time, they are scared to death,
like, and how weird that is. Like, why would you go to
something that you're scared to death of?
You know, like, why would you dothat?
Why would you put yourself in that position?
(41:34):
And then how can a teacher support students that are scared
to death, Right. So that's the type of, like,
teacher I wanted to be. How can I support students learn
this craft of improv that's so vulnerable and help them through
their fears? Yeah.
As you've used improv as a psychotherapy tool, what
benefits and what positive changes have you seen in the
(41:56):
patients that you've applied this to?
Yeah, so I worked for a long time with kids, like I worked
with kids in the foster care system.
So I trained in play therapy, which is very similar to drama
therapy. And it's just magical.
Like play is just magical. I, I, I just, I still remember
this little 6 year old girl thatI worked with and like in her
(42:20):
file before my first session with her, she was, she was, she
had witnessed domestic violence in her house.
Like, so she witnessed like her dad beat up her mom.
So it was very sad. And then her symptoms that she
was struggling with was that shewasn't eating.
This little girl wasn't eating at all.
And she was obsessively cleaningup the house.
(42:42):
Like she was just cleaning like a little 6 year old was cleaning
the house constantly and so on my very first session with her.
So as a play therapist, you're really kind of like in support
of the client. Like you just kind of let the
little little child come into the playroom and just be like,
what do you want to play with? You know, just like very open,
(43:02):
just kind of showing her all thetoys that she could play with.
And the first thing that she went to was the dollhouse and
she took every item out of the dollhouse and like literally
cleaned up the dollhouse to clean it.
And it took like almost the whole session, like she took the
entire session to clean that dollhouse, right?
(43:23):
And then the second thing that she did is she went to the
plastic food and stuff and she made this huge spread for us,
like all the things, you know, set up all the plates, set up
all the cups. And usually when you play like
pretend food with kids, like everybody eats, you know, like
you pretend like you're eating it and then she immediately
cleans it all up. Oh wow.
(43:43):
So like we didn't eat the food right?
And then the session was over and I was like, like, there it
is, there it is. So it's like just the power of
play, you know, like, and for meas a therapist threw out our
sessions together. I would just, my interventions
would just be like asking those questions of like, oh, like,
well, I'm hungry. Like maybe would you would you
(44:06):
want to eat a bite with me? You know, and like just kind of
like playing with that or even with the dollhouse, like it, you
know, like just playing with ways that like, you know, other
people could clean up the house or, you know, like just
constantly letting, letting the interventions come through the
play, right. It's like it acts like a
metaphor. And there was just some really
(44:28):
powerful session. She re enacted the trauma that
she witnessed eventually in the session.
And I really supported her with that.
But it was all through play. It was all through play.
You know, there was that safety.The play becomes the safety in
order to express the stuff. What are some of the differences
that you've noticed between teaching improv to adults and
(44:49):
teaching improv to kids? Oh yeah, yeah.
I worked in children's theater for a long time too and did like
a lot of groups with with kids. So the kids, like, you don't
have to teach them to loosen up and express themselves.
You know, they're just like, youknow, like.
They're already. There, right they're there
they're playful and fun and thenwith the adults, you have to
(45:09):
kind of like take away the rulesthat are inside of their head,
like all that inner critic stuffthat you got to unpack.
So it's like with kids, you got to teach them how to focus and
like play together and share, you know, all those like sharing
skills that they need to learn. And then with adults, you got to
kind of unstrip all that, like those rules that they have in
(45:32):
their heads. Well, now I have to ask you
about Leila. Yeah.
How did Leila get started? So yeah, my husband and I
started the company like we juststarted together.
So I met my husband Christopher.We met in that college improv
troupe. So he was like a six year senior
and I was a freshman when we met.
(45:54):
And yeah, like we just had that experience in that in that
community, that theater Strikeforce that was so
beautiful. And it's funny.
Sometimes I'll I'll talk to other theater Strikeforce people
and I tell them about our company and they're like, you
guys just recreated theater Strikeforce.
That's what you guys did. Because yeah, we were really
exposed to this beautiful community.
(46:16):
And what was cool about it, It was not just for theater majors
like the leader of the group, Heather, Heather parody.
She like opened it up as a club to anybody at at the university.
So we had people that were like physics majors and you know,
maybe they were getting their PhD and like political science
or something. So we had just like such a wide
(46:37):
spectrum of people come to that club.
And it was like over 100 people at at one point and that would
like meet and cram into this upper lobby area together.
So when Chris and I were like figuring out this was in San
Francisco, was going through grad school and he's like, well,
Jim, why don't you just like start applying what you're doing
(46:58):
in school and start teaching classes?
You know, don't you want to be an improv teacher?
Like that's what you want to do,Like start applying what you're
learning. And I was like, really?
And he's really good about computers and he's a tech.
He was a technical theater major.
So he's like a tech director kind of guy.
So he's loves creating structures and he did the
(47:18):
website and he started how to, how to sell classes and all the
infrastructure for that. So the two of us together are
like really good. And then when we were trying to
figure out what to call this thing, right?
I was like, huh, like what, what, what do I want to call
this thing? And I told him I was like, I
think I have two requirements. Like, I want the the name to be
(47:41):
meaningful, of course, and then I want it to be a woman's name.
So like just doing classes at UCB and at that time in the 90s,
there were so few women doing improv.
It was just like, like a weird thing to be in a woman doing
improv. So I really wanted a woman's
name. So I was like, literally looking
(48:01):
in baby books for a woman's name.
That was meaningful to me. And then I also was reading this
book by Stephen Nachmanovic. Have you read Free Play?
Do you know that book? Yes.
Yeah. So the first chapter of that
book, he talks about Leela, which means play in Sanskrit.
So I was like, oh, yeah, that's it for me.
(48:22):
You know, studying so much aboutplay therapy in drama therapy
school and just the huge momentsI've had as a play therapist, I
was like, yeah, this is it for me.
Like improv is not synonymous with comedy.
To me, improv is synonymous, synonymous with play.
So I just really wanted to have a company just like play.
(48:47):
And then what's also cool about Leela is my husband was studying
at our school. The school that I went to for
grad school, they had a sound voice and music healing program.
So he was going through that certificate program and his
teacher was really into Sanskritand meditation.
And she talked a lot about the seed syllables in the Sanskrit
(49:10):
language and how like when, likewhen you say Om, right, when
you're going to Om and you're meditating, it's meant to create
a peaceful, peaceful experience in your body.
Like somatically, right? So Leela is very similar.
Or when you say it, it creates aplayful experience in your body.
(49:31):
So I just like, woo, this is it.This is it.
What's also cool is, like, it means purple and German logo and
like, website design is around purple, and purple's a very fun,
playful color too. So yeah, it's really beautiful.
What's funny too is, like, so many people come up to me and
call me Lila, you know, 'cause it's a woman's name and they
(49:51):
think I'm Lila, which is funny. Yeah.
Yeah, I was going to ask if you get a lot of people mistakenly
calling you Lila. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that happens a lot too, Yeah.How do you feel like Leela
stands out among what's now the endless sea of improv schools
and theaters? Yeah, I do think the the, the
(50:13):
woman perspective, I think hopefully is there.
There's like a feminine or a matriarchal kind of feeling to
it, I feel like. And yeah, that just like, hey,
this is not comedy, you know? We're not doing comedy here.
However, like if you go to a Leela show, especially like in
(50:36):
San Francisco where everything'slike fully realized, you're
going to be laughing your ass off.
You know, it's like so funny what those those improvisers are
doing, but they're not going forthe joke, right?
It's just so much more like a collaborative experience, like
that game of telephone, right? That's where the laughs are
stemming from. What's it like to run this
(50:57):
theater alongside your husband? Oh, that's another, that's
another podcast. I don't think if anybody's
interviewed us together, like I think that would be a really
interesting experience because it's hard.
Yeah, it's really hard. The business of it, I think it's
really interesting. I come from a family that, you
(51:17):
know, business was a part of thefamily.
And now I'm like kind of recreating that experience too.
And then his experience, like hegrew up at Disney, his dad
worked in marketing as at DisneyWorld.
So he has that influence too, oflike growing up in entertainment
and that being like part of the family.
(51:37):
But yeah, just it's just it's hard.
It's hard. I think we each also have to
make sure, because running a business like there's so much
admin, there's so much unsexy stuff to what you got to do is,
and I'm probably like, we have to make sure that we're
scheduling in time for us to like, perform.
And like, for him especially, hedoes a lot of the finance and
(51:59):
the website and the producing ofthings like he needs to teach.
He's got to be with the students, you know?
So just like making sure we're doing those things, yeah.
I remember because I'm a big fanof Penn and Teller, and I
remember Penn saying that one ofthe reasons why the two of them
work so well is because they're willing to fight with each
(52:19):
other. And I've heard that be a similar
thing with many other duos and partnerships.
Do you feel like that's something that you and Chris
experience? Yeah, I mean, we, I wish we
wouldn't do it as much, you know, because it's, it's like
I'm the artistic director and he's the executive producer.
I mean, those are like, you know, and it's really hard
(52:43):
because his his his goal, his objective is the bottom line.
You know, we can't lose money, right?
And we got to make money. You know, where I'm coming from,
the artistic point of view whereit's like, but for the art, you
know, where I don't care as muchabout the money.
But you know, a lot of his decisions need to trump my
decisions or we or we're not going to be in business anymore.
(53:05):
So like, I think those are some of our big, big fights we've
had. And then and that we're not a
nonprofit that's been very intentional for us.
Like we don't want to be, you know, fundraising constantly and
working on donors constantly. That's just not the life and
what we feel like we're good at,you know, so we've always wanted
(53:26):
to be a for profit company. So we want to make sure that the
company is sustainable first andforemost.
Yeah. Do you think you'll keep it in
the family and make your daughter take improv classes
too? Yes, so I have, I'm not the best
with like social media and all that kind of stuff and graphic
design. So like I've been trying to
learn on Canva and she's been watching me and so she's gotten
(53:49):
really into Canva. I'm like, all right, you go
girl, like take this over if you've got all this graphic
design. I want to put her in a graphic
design class so she can do it. Yeah, and then you don't have to
pay an artist. You could just get your daughter
to do it. Yeah, exactly.
You can always use the excuse I pay you with food and shelter,
yeah. Yeah, there is actually some
interesting tax things you can do with with your own business
(54:12):
if you hire a a person in the family.
So yeah, you can definitely do all that, yeah.
You know, I'm curious, Jill. You definitely wear many hats.
You're a therapist. You're a performer.
You're an instructor. You run a theater and at the
same time, you're also a wife and a mom.
Do you feel at times it's kind of difficult to balance all of
(54:35):
those things that you do? Yeah, I think so.
I think I'm still, you know, it's still a process.
It's still a like as our business in Raleigh, we're doing
more with our, with our the eastside branch of our our business.
I'm like teaching every night this week and I'm just like, oh
God, I miss my daughter, you know, like I miss putting her to
(54:57):
bed at night and you know, all of that.
So it's it's constantly re evaluating like, OK, like, is
this a good use of my time rightnow?
I'm sure a lot of parents feel that way.
It's like you get a little bit more choosy.
Like it's like parents that are artists, you just become a
little bit more choosy with yourwith your time where I felt like
(55:19):
before I was a parent, I was like, yeah, I'll go to that
festival. I'll go to that festival.
Like I'll teach that class, I'lldo that show, whatever.
But now I'm like, OK, is this worth my time and energy right
now or would I rather be home with my daughter, You know?
So it's just being really choosy.
Do you have the ability to sort of step outside yourself for a
moment, see everything that you're doing and reaffirm to
(55:41):
yourself? Wow, I really love what I'm
doing. Yeah, yeah, I tried.
I've been trying to do more of that lately because yeah, I can
just get so caught up in the present moment, you know, just
like I got to do this and I got A to do list, like one thing
after another. So I have been trying to make
more time to just do that. Look my look around and be like,
(56:03):
wow, I'm so grateful. Like this is amazing.
We've made it happen. We made our we realized our
dream. Yeah.
I think especially now when we are at a time where life now
just moves incredibly fast, probably faster than it's ever
had before. And I love to have that time
where you could just pause and look at everything and just
(56:26):
breathe and be like, wow, I really love this.
Yeah. It's really important.
I think it's really, it's something that I try to teach my
students to, to just like be in the moment, notice the moment.
Like we often live in that life of like what's next, what's
next, what's next, right? So just to, I think that's
what's so healing about improv. If you're forced to be in the
(56:47):
moment, you have to be in the moment.
And it's so cool that it's a disposable art form, right?
Like nobody's recording it. It's not being logged.
It's just like, hey, let's just be in this moment.
And then it let it, let it go. Just let it go.
Yeah, well, Jill, I've got one more question for you, my
(57:07):
friend. What's the one piece of advice
that has served you well that you'd want everyone else to
hear? Oh.
My gosh, that's a really good one.
That's hard. So one piece of advice I don't
(57:28):
know LD should prepared for thisone.
What's the one piece of advice that, Well, I think like,
something that my, my husband's really good with me about is, is
making sure I'm having fun. Yeah.
(57:49):
Like he always tells our teachers that too, when things
get too stressful. Like he's just like, are you
having fun? Are you having fun making sure
that you're having fun? Because, like, why do it?
Like especially improv, you know, if the audience sees that
you're not having fun, they're not going to have fun, right.
So like, and, and that and that,and that's a hard thing.
It's just like you can't just belike have fun gel, you know,
(58:12):
it's like you got to really unpack like what is fun and and
how can you have fun? You know, I think about my
family sometimes, like my dad isvery serious.
He's an engineer. He's always like, I wanted to
make sure that he had all these dreams of having his own
business and making a lot of money from his business, but I
(58:34):
never really saw him having fun like any.
And he struggles with that a loteven now, like into retirement.
Like, you know, once I'm done with my business, like, how do I
have fun? So like, I think it's just an
important question for us as as humans and as improvisers that
we just need to re evaluate all the time.
It's like, are you having fun? And like, how can you have fun?
(58:58):
How do you have fun? Yeah.
Fun does tend to be underestimated a lot, doesn't
it? Yeah.
And then and then that's what? And that's what play is.
It is fun, you know, like even even in those serious moments,
like I talked about that one little girl when she like
reenacted the trauma through play therapy, like there was an
intensity to her. I don't know if I don't know if
(59:19):
you would call it fun for her, but there was an intensity and a
creativity to what she was doingthat she needed to get out of
herself, You know, So it was like to it's it's creative.
It's like a creative channel, you know, that we need to like
let out, right. And maybe that is fun, or maybe
(59:40):
that's creativity, but it it's expression.
It's expression like finding a way to have that those like
moments of expression that we need to get out of ourselves.
Well, Jill, I had an absolutely wonderful time with you today.
I cannot thank you enough for being here and I wish you and
your family all the best my friend.
(01:00:02):
You too great to connect with you ALDI.
Are you having fun? Are you remembering to enjoy
what you do? Remember to always find the fun
and the joy, because that's always the most important part.
My thanks to Jill Eichmann for this conversation today.
(01:00:24):
To learn more about her theater Leela, visit their website
leela-n-c.com. And to learn more about Jill's
work as a drama therapist, visitjilleichmann.com.
My friends, thanks so much for sticking with me.
I appreciate you all and I hope you stick around for more.
(01:00:46):
To find out how you can sponsor an episode, visit my website
ldmadera.com and remember, you are who you are and you are
special. Take care.
Hello, friends. Hey there everybody.
How are you all doing? I'm your friend LD Madera, and
this is another episode of Improv and Magic.
We have another great guest on the show today.
Today's guest is an incredible performer named Jill Eichmann.
(00:24):
In our conversation, Jill sharesher journey into theater and
improv, as well as her experiences in teaching improv
and building her own theater. And what you'll definitely hear
from Jill is the importance of finding the joy in everything
that you're doing. Jill is a wonderful person to
get to know, and I really hope you enjoy our conversation
(00:46):
today. Here now is my guest, Jill
Eichmann. Well, my friends, I'm very happy
to have here on improv and magicthe wonderful and always lovely
Jill Eichmann. Hi, Jill.
(01:08):
Thanks so much for being here. Hi.
LD Thanks for having me. How's your summer been so far?
Oh, it's been hot, It's been hot.
Well, we're in Florida, So what else is new?
I know, I know, It's been particularly hot this year, huh?
Yeah, it has, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Do you and your family typicallyplan like summer vacations,
(01:29):
summer outings or things like that?
We're not the best planners, being improvisers.
Yeah, one of the best planners. We got to live by the scene of
our pants. But we were just talking about
that. So we're out.
We're back in the Southeast. My husband and I grew up in the
Southeast, so I'm Texas and Florida.
He's Florida. So we we're back in the
Southeast after being in the West Coast for 20 years.
(01:50):
And we're like, wow, let's explore, you know, let's come
back and explore some places. So we're thinking about taking a
train to Greensboro, you know, with my daughter.
So I think that that'll be maybenext weekend or maybe even this
week when we'll see. We'll see what fate decides.
Yeah, you're such the improviser.
Yes, yes. Well, I'm so excited to learn
(02:11):
all about you, Jill. So I always like to start at the
very beginning. Where did you grow up and what
was growing up like for you? Yes.
Yeah, so I grew up in a suburb of Dallas and Dallas place
called Plano, TX. Are you familiar with Plano, TX
at all? Somewhat.
Yeah, a lot of people know us from Frito Lay is based there.
What else is based there? Anything else based there?
(02:33):
I had a good friend whose dad works for Frito Lay, and every
time I went over to their house,they had chips galore.
I might just have so many chips.So the time I reference Plano,
TX. But it's kind of funny because
my dad was an entrepreneur, so my dad dad was.
If you've ever watched the show Halt and Catch Fire, do you know
that show? No, I haven't heard of that one.
(02:55):
I've watched a couple episodes that I was like watching.
I was like, Oh my God, this was this was my upbringing.
This is crazy. So apparently this area of
Dallas, Fort Worth back in the 80s was considered like the
Silicon Valley of Texas. So it was like right when like
PCs were starting to come out like personal computers and
stuff. And my dad had his own computer
(03:16):
business. He didn't sell to individuals,
he sold to companies. So it's sort of like part of
that whole thing that was happening in Texas.
And it was, it was hard, you know, like my dad had his own
business. My aunt moved out there to, to
work for my dad's business. It was sort of like, you know,
this is what we're doing to makemoney.
(03:38):
You know, my dad was taking a bunch of risks and shortly
thereafter the business went bankrupt.
This other company like kind of took him to court.
And that company was the other company was being sort of
corrupt and they had a better lawyer.
So it was just like a really hard time for my family.
And then the recession happened and then my dad was like
bouncing from business to business for a while, different
(03:59):
companies. And then he decided to go back
to school. So like my dad got his PhD in
international business and entrepreneurship, so he's going
back to school. And then my mom was working full
time as a dental hygienist. And then I had a brother that
was born when I was like 10 years old.
So there's like, a lot going on in my family.
(04:21):
And then after my dad completed his PhD, we moved to Miami
because he got his first business professor job at FIU.
So that's sort of like I grew upmostly in Plano, TX, you know,
And then I moved to Miami when Iwas in high school.
Yeah. Yeah.
It definitely sounds like there was a lot going on when you were
growing up. Was it sort of hard to kind of
(04:43):
grow up in that ongoing environment where things are
always moving? Yeah, I mean, I think I, it's
interesting thinking back on it because like I felt like, like
there was always conversations at the dinner table about about
business, you know, and about the business and the, you know,
my aunt would always come over and talk business.
My mom would talk business, too.There was always that kind of
(05:06):
going on. But I also feel like my family
was really funny. You know, there was always humor
and joking around and stuff. So I definitely got that from my
family, too. But there is definitely like,
risk taking in my family, which I think is a big part of who I
am. Yeah, yeah.
What was your transition like from Texas to Florida?
Oh, it was interesting. Like, you know, being in
(05:29):
Florida, right? Like, you know, being in Plano,
TX, like I remember like football was like almost like a
religion in Texas, you know, like if you've ever seen Friday
Night Lights, like that's definitely like Texas.
Everybody kind of the whole towncomes together for the football
games. So that's like a big part of it,
(05:50):
you know, just like being one ofmany blondes.
Texas, you know, at least I was.I was a natural blonde, but I
don't know if anybody else was, you know, so like that.
And then moving to Florida, you know, being like the whitest
girl in Miami, you know, like, just like people would touch my
skin and be like, what's wrong? Like, just turn pink.
(06:11):
Like, what's going on with you? Yeah.
So it's like, interesting. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, I love hearing about
how you mentioned that your family was pretty funny growing
up. Uh huh.
Did that have any sort of effecton you?
Yeah, I know it's interesting. Like I, I think the funny in my
family was definitely like kind of like A1 upmanship funny.
(06:32):
You know, there was definitely like competitive funny around
it. So, you know, to get in you'd
have to like kind of find your way, you know, to like one up.
And I never felt like I was the funniest in my family, you know,
So I had to like compete. And then and then I was also a
very sensitive child too. Like I was very, you know what
(06:53):
you would say dramatic, you know, as I got into the teen
years and very sensitive and I would cry all the time.
So like, I kind of lived in thatspace of like, I want to be
funny, but I can't compete with the funny, you know?
And then also I'm very sensitiveand dramatic, but I wasn't
getting sort of like held and supported in that sensitive
(07:14):
place, you know, So it's definitely influenced who I am.
I feel like it's like I love theimprov world because it feels
familiar, like my family, you know, it's like, oh, I'm with
like other funny people, like I love this.
But at the same time, it's like somebody, please, like I'm also
sensitive and I'm, you know, I've got some sad feelings too,
you know, Can you help? Can you hold me in that?
(07:36):
You know? So it's an interesting
conundrum. Yeah.
I think most of us kind of go through that during our
adolescent period where we just realized we have all these
feelings and we're at an age where we don't really know what
to do with them. Is that kind of similar to what
you went through? Totally.
And then like I found theater, which was really cool.
It's like, oh, OK, I can put allmy feelings here.
(07:59):
And then people have have to wit, witness them.
I'm on stage. You have to look at me.
You know, you can't ignore me. So I definitely found the stage
to be very healing for me, yeah.Were you kind of a drama nerd
back then? Oh yeah, definitely, definitely.
Yeah. So like, when I moved to Miami,
I went to high school there at Palmetto High School.
(08:21):
I don't know if you're familiar with Palmetto.
And it was like an interesting time to move to Miami, too,
because it was like, I think it was a year after Andrew had
happened, Hurricane Andrew. And a bunch of my friends, like,
had lived through that like the year before.
And I remember them talking about it and being like, yeah,
we had to buy a new house or, you know, our insurance didn't
get coverage or, you know, like,people just have been families
(08:44):
went through so much during thattime.
And then the school that I went to, apparently, like, they had a
great theater program like the year before, but Andrew
destroyed the whole theater. It just, like, destroyed the
whole auditorium that they used and everything.
So the drama teacher there, like, built out a theater out of
the classroom that they were working out of, you know, so
(09:07):
they just kind of like had to make do.
And then the auditorium never, they never got the funds to like
rebuild it or anything, you know.
So it's kind of an interesting time to go through that.
And I definitely felt like my theatre classmates, we were just
so like go getters, you know, it's like we didn't have all the
funding. It was a public school, you
know, like we had to fight for like things that we wanted to
(09:29):
do. The theatre teacher was a little
bit checked out. He was probably depressed, you
know, going through all that stuff, but we just like made
shit happen, you know? So I think that definitely
informed who I am too. It's like, yeah, people aren't
going to, you know, you're not going to have the phenomenal
theatre program or the phenomenal teacher that's going
to take you so far. It's like you got to you got to
(09:49):
kind of come together as a community and make it happen if
you want it. So it sounds like the community
played a big role in helping youreally grow, is that right?
Definitely, definitely. And I feel like with you, that's
something that has continued to progress throughout your career.
Why do you feel like community is such an essential thing and
(10:12):
how has it helped you? Yeah, why is it such an
essential thing? Other than finding people that
are weird like you. I know well, I think it's just
something that I'm attracted to to like just like we're not
doing this. I never really felt like
internally I'm doing this to be famous.
(10:32):
You know, I it's like I'm doing this because I want to connect
with people. Like, that's just, that's what
where it's been most fun, you know, like I just even remember
being 8 to 10 years old and inviting friends over for play
dates. And we would like make little
skits and we would, you know, record ourselves on our little
tape recorders and do audio plays.
(10:54):
And it wasn't about like, let's make sure we're performing this
for everybody. You know, it's just, it was for
us, you know, it's like, oh, let's do something creative
together. So that's just always been like,
that's where it's most fun, you know, when we're just doing it
for each other, we're doing it for each other.
Yeah, I definitely have a lot ofchildhood memories where I was
(11:18):
performing, but for nobody, like, no audience, just in my
room. And just, you know, when you
grow up as an only child, you kind of have to create your own.
You know, you create your own world, right?
Because there's no one else to kind of be with you in that
craziness. Yeah, yeah, I have an only
child. It's so interesting because I'm
(11:39):
a, I'm a middle child, which is I just think is kind of an
interesting thing too, because Ihad an older sister who never
wanted to play with me. She was, no, would let me play
with her and her friends and shethought it was a pest and stuff,
you know. So it's like I kind of had to, I
had to like go looking for friends, you know, to play with
(12:00):
me. Yeah.
This is an unfair question, but I might as well ask who's funny,
you, you, your brother or your sister?
I think my brother, honestly my brother, because he's very, he's
kind of the dark horse. Like you don't, you don't see it
coming. It's really interesting because
like some of his stuff, it's like he's very quiet.
(12:21):
He's very introverted. But like he'll just be kind of
like sitting at the dinner table, sort of like taking it
all in, you know, and just waiting, waiting, waiting.
And then he'll just like, Bam, just like, come in and we're
like, what, you know, like, and it's so funny.
And he's really good with, like,puns and word play and stuff.
(12:42):
And it's just like, oh, you know, it's very smart.
It's very smart humor. Yeah, yeah.
He's the comedy shark that knowswhen to strike.
Yes, where I feel like I'm much more like my brother always says
I'm kind of like Sarah Silverstone, you know?
Like I'm like, you know, I've got the faces and I'm very
expressive and like kind of goofy, you know.
(13:03):
So I'm a little more out there where he's a little, you know,
more kind of comes in like, likeyou said, like a shack.
I always envied people like that.
I mean, I'm kind of good at that, but most of the time it's
a miss. And not only is it a miss, but
everyone else can tell it's a miss, and that's the worst
(13:23):
feeling. Yes, yes.
So I believe that everyone who starts to get into performing,
they always have that well, theyusually have that aha moment
where they're performing in a show and they feel the audience
and the audience is feeling them.
And that reaffirms that, yes, this is what I want to do.
(13:45):
I'm curious, Jill, did you ever have that sort of aha moment?
Yeah, I mean, I, I studied, I studied theater in college.
I got my BFA in acting at University of Florida.
So it's sort of like on that track of like, OK, I'm going to
do stage shows, scripted theater, things like that.
And then I found an improv groupon on campus very early and this
(14:09):
improv teacher was really cool. And the fact that she didn't
just focus on comedy, so she wasreally interested.
We called her like she did the Sark method.
She does those like poster, she's an author and she does
those posters that are like how to be an artist and they're like
super colorful rainbow colors. She has like journals that are
all about like, living your lifejuicy, you know, like it's very
(14:32):
like self help with creativity. So she was really into all that
Sark stuff. And so she would sort of, you
know, integrate those like messages and those mindsets into
the improv stuff that we would do.
And she'd sort of like lead the class almost like at the
beginning, she would like say a sermon in a sense, like in the
(14:53):
beginning of class about like, you know, living this like
creative life and have some message, you know, about that.
And then we would divide up intogroups and do improv stuff in
different groups. But she was like very much like
hippy dippy. She was a Reiki master.
She was a witch, self-proclaimedwitch, you know, like so she
(15:14):
integrated a lot of this kind ofenergy spirituality into it.
So it was like very, I felt likeit was very like drama therapy,
you know, I didn't even and I and I just thought that that's
what improv was. I didn't know that there was
like improv comedy or improv, you know, different levels of
improv was like, Oh, this is my exposure to improv.
So this is improv, you know, so it was it was very influential
(15:36):
to me. And then I started getting, I
would say, I'm sorry if I'm tangenting here from the
question, but like I was a scripted theatre major and back
then, like I was very much the ingenue look like I got cast as
the sweet young thing, you know,the ingenue.
And I started to notice when I would get cast in those roles,
(15:59):
like I was like, what is my objective?
Like do I do I have a want, you know, And I kept on like trying
to analyze the script and it'll be so hard.
And I would notice other people in the cast would, would find
their objective like right away.And I'd be like, and I'd get so
much like criticism from my teachers was like, Jill, you
need to find an objective. I was like, but what is it like
(16:22):
I'm the objective, you know whatI mean?
Like as the ingenue, like I was an Amadeus, you know, that I
played Costanza, which was Mozart's wife, and she was
literally like in a love triangle with Saleris and
Amadeus, right? And they were fighting over her.
But like, what was her objective?
Like, I just wrestled so much with that.
(16:42):
Like, what do I want, you know? And then when I started doing
improv, I was like, oh, I don't have to be the ingenue anymore.
Like I can, I can be like a bitch.
I can be a toy soldier, I can bea blender.
I can be anything in improv and I can have a want, you know, I
don't have to like follow the script and try to figure it out.
(17:05):
You know, it's like I can just declare a want and I can have
it, you know. So I think that was like improv
was very influential for me in that way.
Just started like allowing me tohave more creativity in my
acting and then I started getting cast in other roles.
Like I was like, oh, I didn't just get the ingenues anymore.
I got cast as like Truvi and Steel Magnolias, which was
(17:25):
really fun, more like character actors and I loved it.
It was so fun. Did you perform in a lot of
scenes where you were a blender?I'm trying to remember, I don't
know, it's hard to remember improv scenes.
Do you have a hard time? Oh yeah, yeah, sometimes I
forget. Literally like 30 minutes later.
Yeah, It's like you're so in themoment.
(17:45):
I it's yeah. It's like, it's so interesting
to like those times doing improv.
The group was called Theater Strike Force at University of
Florida. I think it's still going on.
I think it's still a troop goingon.
But like there was some chat group going on with Theater
Strike Force alumni and people were trying to figure out who
was the president at different years.
And I was like, was I the president?
(18:07):
I was like, I don't know. I don't remember.
Was I? And they were like, yeah, Jill,
you were the president. I was like, I have no idea.
I don't remember, you know, like, I don't remember.
I just remember the feeling, right?
The the community feeling of it all, yeah.
You know, I love hearing about how when you got into improv, it
really opened up a lot more for you as far as being able to play
(18:30):
different roles. And I love hearing that because
I feel like nowadays, improv hasreally become a lot more valued
when it comes to theater. Now directors really crave for
that. In your opinion, why do you
think improv has become such a valuable tool for actors?
(18:50):
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I think I don't have as
much experience with like film and TV and that genre, but I
know that that they're asking for more creativity from from
actors too, you know, like to not just follow a script, you
know, like they're wanting things to like kind of jump off
the page or be more interesting or creative.
(19:13):
They're actually looking for like Co writers.
I feel like for a lot of these ads and like ads are so like
quick, you know, it's like 3 second ads like you have to, you
have to do something eye-catching, you have to be
specific. So they need the actor to be
able to fuel that. Here's an interesting question,
and I've only asked this a few times and I've gotten kind of
(19:37):
different answers from the people I've asked, but I'm
interested to hear your answer to this.
Do you think of yourself as an improviser or an actor who
improvises? Lately I've been saying improv
artist so. I like that term too.
Yeah, like I've been saying, I do say improvisor 'cause I feel
(19:59):
like, but spelled SOR, 'cause I feel like what that connotes is
like actor, you know, like like you spell actor.
But improv artist feels much more true to me because I I
consider myself an artist, you know?
What I'm doing is is a creative act.
(20:20):
You know, I've heard you in the past speak a lot about the value
of vulnerability. How important is vulnerability
in improv, and what has it done to improve your performance?
Yeah, yeah. I feel like it's, it's scary
definitely as an improv improv artist, as an improv artist, to
(20:46):
go to those places, especially in the world where improv can be
so synonymous with comedy. You know, it's sort of like
unexpected, like the audience islike, I didn't sign up for this,
you know? But when you go there, the
laughs, like when the laughs happened, they're just so much
more satisfying, so much more satisfying.
(21:08):
Lately I've been really inspiredby like clown work.
I've been doing like a lot of clown work lately.
And the work of Andy Kaufman is really inspiring to me.
And I love that. Like, I've watched some of his
old stuff. I love that line that he would
walk of like the audience didn'tknow.
They like, they like they were confused.
They're like, do I laugh? Do I not laugh?
(21:31):
Is it OK to laugh? You know, and it's like you're
really taking this the audience on this journey of it's, it's
vulnerable, right? And it's a it's, it's really
scary as an artist to go there. But for some reason I'm
compelled to go there. Like it's like, OK, this is
going to be messy. This is going to be really messy
(21:51):
and daring. And it's going to be probably
something that the audience isn't ready for or wasn't
expecting. But isn't that fun, though, to
give them something that they'renot expecting?
Yeah. Yeah, I say all the time to
never underestimate the audiencebecause I know a lot of people
are like, I don't want to do thevulnerable stuff because the
(22:12):
audience isn't going to laugh atthat.
But then again, I've had a lot of experiences where I've done
shows and there's no laughs, butthe audience is really on the
edge of their seats and I get a lot of satisfaction from that,
more than scenes that make people laugh.
Would you agree? Yes, I agree.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. And it might be me too.
(22:34):
Like it might just be my like, oh, I can't compete.
You know, it's like my family stuff of like, oh, I'm not going
to be able to compete with all these other improvisers who are
like bam, bam, bam, bam bam, youknow, super funny, super witty.
I just don't feel like I'm that kind of improviser.
So I've just been like, OK, whatam I good at?
I feel like my wheelhouse is themore vulnerable, slow, patient
stuff. I'm not afraid of it, right?
(22:57):
So I'll just tend to lean into that.
Going back to your early beginnings of learning improv,
were you surprised at all that improv doesn't always have to
lean towards comedy? So.
I surprised at that. No, I feel like I was surprised
about it does lean towards comedy because I think because
my early experience was that college improv group and I was
(23:19):
just like, oh, this is improv like where you do vulnerable
scenes. And we used to do like social
activist like like skits. We'd create skits about like
drug abuse and rape and we'd like tour them around campus,
you know, it's like, so it was more like social activist
theater. And we did short form and long
form and comedy too. But like, it was so many other
(23:42):
things too. So when I moved to New York
after I graduated college, I studied at UCB and I was like,
oh, this is comedy. They all they do is comedy, you
know? And I was just kind of like, oh,
OK, it's sort of wake woken up to is like, oh, OK, this is
comedy. But I liked it.
(24:04):
I liked it. I think I loved, I loved
Saturday Night Live. I grew up watching Saturday
Night Live. I love it, but I do feel like
improv can be so much more, yeah.
Well, you've also had the experience of teaching improv to
a lot of people. When you show your students the
value of vulnerability, do you see them get kind of like
(24:26):
shocked that you would teach them that?
Yes, I do. I do.
And it's, I think it's a it's something that I as a teacher
have kind of gotten into my like, you know, I don't know if
you call it your spiel or your rap at the top of a of a class,
I make sure to say it just because people who've never done
(24:49):
improv before, a lot of people think, Oh, I got to be funny
here, right? Or maybe they have done improv a
bunch and they still say feel I got to be funny here, you know,
so I meant, sure, make sure to tell folks about like our style
at Lila. And I say, you know, our style
at Lila is truthful artistic play, right?
We never say comedy, you know, and what we're doing with
improv. So I always say I want to be
(25:11):
very clear that there's no pressure here to be funny.
There's also no pressure here tobe witty or to be smart or to be
entertaining or to be interesting or creative.
You know, all those things that we want to be in our
performance, that's the product,right?
So what we're shooting for in improv is the process.
So the process of just being honest and having a truthful,
(25:34):
honest reaction in the moment. And what's so cool about that is
when you do that, the byproduct of that most likely will be
funny, witty, smart, entertaining, creative,
interesting, all those things you're wanting to be, right?
So just like, be truthful and honest in the moment and you'll
get the things you're wanting tobe.
(25:54):
Yeah, yeah. As instructors, we've all had
the experience of teaching our beginners class and having that
one guy come in who's labeled himself as Mr. Funny Guy, right?
Yes. How do you kind of help Mr. or
Missus Funny person kind of realize they don't have to be on
(26:16):
like that all the time? Yeah, like sometimes I, if I see
that person even before class starts and I'm like, OK, then I
have an exercise in my back pocket that I'll teach as a warm
up. So, you know, like telephone,
like the game of telephone. So I was like, OK, we're going
to play a game kind of like the game telephone.
Does anybody remember this game when they were kids?
I was like, OK, you remember this game, Tell me the rules of
(26:37):
telephone. So I'll have that person kind of
tell me the rules like, oh, you whisper in the person's ear next
to you, little short phrase, andthen you do your best to
remember that phrase and pass itto the next person, right.
And go right. And then I'll say, does anybody
remember that one kid on the playground that would, like,
purposefully, like, change the phrase?
Does anybody remember that kid? And then some people were like,
(26:59):
yeah, yeah. It was like, was anybody that
kid? And I was in somebody.
And, you know, usually that guy will like, you know, raise his
hand. And I was like, no shame, no
judgement. I love that kid.
That kid is very funny and very awesome.
But for this next exercise, let's just not be that kid, OK?
Let's just really play the game of telephone, right?
(27:20):
Like, let's what? What are the rules?
You do exactly what the person next to you does, you know, even
if it changes slightly, just do what the person right directly
before you does. Do the best of your ability,
right? So we'll play the game a few
times, and then I'll talk about it afterwards.
I was like, oh, tell me about, tell me about the funny moments.
What moments made you laugh, Youknow?
(27:41):
And they're like, oh, there was this one moment when it slightly
changed or somebody accidentallylaughed, and that was
incorporated. You know, I was like, yeah,
yeah, yeah. And I was like, so the funny
happened because of those, like,organic mistakes, right?
And because we're being such good listeners, we're being such
good observers, and we're creating the funny together.
(28:03):
It's a collaborative experience experience.
And we're not forcing the funny,right?
I remember we're just being truthful and honest in the
moment. We're doing whatever we're
noticing and making it, you know, just continuing it and
going. And I was like, and I was like,
OK, remember when I was talking about that kid?
And I was like, yeah, I was like, that kid is stand up.
(28:26):
And I'll go like, so that kid isfunny.
They're planning, they're jokes,they're hilarious, right?
That's stand up. I love stand up.
I love watching stand up. But that's stand up.
What we just did is improv. And that's where the funny
happens, right? Is through our team effort, our
observations and, and just surrendering to the truth of the
(28:46):
moment. And then they're like, oh, OK,
OK. Yeah, based on my experience, I
believe that the best laughs youget in improv are the ones you
don't plan on. Right.
Exactly. Yeah.
And it's scary. I think it's scary for that kid,
you know, to be like, oh, I really want to be funny here.
(29:08):
I really want people to like me,you know?
So there's a lot of, like, unpacking we got to do to really
allow those people to like, hey,you're going to be great.
Just allow whatever comes out ofyou to be perfect.
Perfect. You know, you don't need to plan
here. Yeah.
There's usually this imaginary line that divides stand up
(29:28):
comedy and improv comedy, but attimes people do try to cross
that line. Do you find that some people
have trouble crossing that line?Do you think it becomes
difficult, for example, for a stand up comedian to cross the
line and get into improv? I guess it depends on the
person. I'm thinking about my students
(29:49):
right now. There's this one guy who's been
taking some drop in classes and he's a stand up and he's so
smart, you know, and he's so andhe's willing, like I feel like
he's willing to like fail and not be funny.
And I do think that that's something that stand up
comedians have that maybe improvisers don't.
Is that that resiliency to bomb?I feel like as improvisers we
(30:14):
get a lot. We have a lot of safety
mechanisms in place. You know, we build each other
up, we support each other. We can just edit the scene if we
want to. There's a lot of safety in
improv where there's not as muchsafety in stand up, I feel like.
So I do feel like stand ups got a little bit of advantage with
(30:34):
like they're just, they're just tougher skin than those
supervisors. Yeah, yeah.
Have you done stand up yourself?Thought about it and we do teach
stand up at just the funny, but I've never really had the
courage to give it a shot because in all honesty, Jill, I
really don't think of myself as a funny person.
(30:57):
And if you put me on stage and say make this audience laugh, I
wouldn't know what to do. Yeah, quite honestly.
I'm the same, I'm the same. I did.
I did 1 stand up show and I was 10 years old.
I tell people I feel like I peaked at 10 cuz like I did the
stand up show and then I was like, it was the best thing I
feel like I've ever done in my life.
(31:18):
And then I haven't done it again.
So I'm like, but I like it was afifth grade graduation show and
I was super, I was super shy in elementary school, like a super
rule follower. I didn't, I didn't want to do
anything bad. I would cry if it, if the
teacher looked at me funny, you know?
And so was the last day of school and they had a talent
(31:41):
show and a bunch of my little girlfriends and stuff.
They wanted to do some like choreographed dance with
matching outfits. And I'm like, Nope, I'm going to
do a stand up act. I'm going to go up there by
myself and I'm going to make people laugh because I like came
from this funny family and I watched stand up shows with my
family and SNL and all that kindof stuff.
So I imitated all my teachers and I was like, like, super
(32:04):
brave. I can't even, I can't even
imagine myself doing it. And I did it.
And I got like, huge laughs. And then the thing I wasn't
expecting was the teachers came up to me afterwards and I was
like, am I in trouble? Oh, God, I'm in trouble.
I'm going to get so much trouble.
But they were like, Jill, I had no idea.
You were so funny and like, you were great, you know?
(32:27):
But yeah, I killed it, you know,so I don't feel like I've had a
bomb experience. You know, I need to, I need to
have one. I need to have one 'cause I'm
like you. I feel like I'm like you.
I, I don't, I wouldn't know how to.
I feel like if somebody put me on the spot, I wouldn't instead
make, make us laugh. I wouldn't know what to do.
Yeah. Other than your funny family,
(32:48):
what would you say were sort of your influences into becoming a
performer? The influence for becoming a
performer. Yeah.
I just, yeah, I think it's back to just that kind of emotional
sensitivity and just needing a place, needing almost like a
(33:13):
canvas to let it out. You know, I just had so much
like, sensitive emotions in me and I, I needed a Yeah, other
than I just needed a place to let those feelings out.
Was there any sort of comedy that you were a fan of back
then? Yeah.
And I do think like, yeah, influences were just like I was
(33:33):
a huge TV kid. I mean, I sat this close to the
TV and, you know, I just was. I watched a lot of Saturday
Night Live late at night with myfamily.
They let me watch stuff that I probably should have watched.
But yeah, like a lot of stand upshows, a lot of Saturday Night
Live. Yeah, definitely.
(33:54):
I loved all that stuff. Bad TV.
Yeah, yeah. I have a lot of friends who know
that I perform improv and teach improv, and they always say
something to the effect of, oh, I really admire what you do,
it's so great. And I say, well, you know, if
you're interested, you should take a class.
And the reaction is usually, oh,no, I, I can't do that stuff.
(34:18):
Is that a reaction that you see a lot?
And why do you think people get afraid to sign up for an improv
class? Yeah, I think it again, it's
that pressure to be funny, right?
Like it's improv has become so synonymous with comedy and, and
people's like identity of like, I'm not funny, Like that's not
me, or I'm not quick or I'm not witty, you know, because that's
(34:41):
all they've seen. Like in pop culture, they see
whose line is it anyway, right? Or they see Saturday Night Live
and then like they don't have any other influences of what
improv could be. Yeah, it's really interesting.
And but then I do feel like people are starting to realize
the the personal growth aspect of improv and that's something
that I advocate a lot of with mydrama therapy background like
(35:04):
that. It's, it's more than just
becoming a performer. It's just good for you to like
work on yourself, your confidence, how to connect with
other people, communication skills, all that kind of stuff.
You've given me an effortless Segway.
Yeah. Because I'm always fascinated by
how improv has that ability to extend outside of being a
(35:27):
performance art. You have been applying improv as
a psychotherapy tool and a way of helping your patients that
deal with mental illnesses. How did you make that discovery
that improv can be used for something other than performing?
Yeah, I mean, I think my first earliest influence was that
(35:48):
teacher that I was talking aboutin college.
Like, she definitely was a dramatherapist, even though she
didn't know. She was like, she was definitely
doing some cool stuff with us. And then when I moved to New
York, I moved there a month before 911 happened.
Yeah. So I was taking classes at UCB.
It was kind of getting my feet wet in a big city.
(36:09):
And I'm like, Oh my God, you know, like waiting tables,
trying to pay my rent, like all that kind of stuff, charging all
my UCB classes on my credit card, you know, like all that
kind of stuff. So it was a really, but that was
a really scary time to be an artist then.
And I just, I remember having this moment soon after 911 and
(36:32):
just kind of dealing with all that like scariness in the world
and thinking like, jeez, my lifeis precious.
You know, it was just so far that not that far away from all
these, these horrible things that happened to so many people,
like and, and acting didn't feellike I was serving any, anybody,
(36:54):
you know, like like I was just sort of being selfish.
It was hard. It was a very hard thing for me
to, to just focus on me. I think like I think I've always
struggled with that like kind oflike the ingenue role.
Like it's like it didn't feel like outward facing.
It was just like I struggled a lot with like kind of like
(37:16):
eating disorders and like feeling like I never fit the
mold and look the part and I would focus a lot on me and then
it would cause a lot of like anxiety.
But anytime I was able to focus on somebody else and support
somebody else, my anxiety started going away.
So I was like, huh, I was thinking about that.
(37:36):
I was like, I, my life is precious.
I'd like to do something a little bit more selfless than
selfish. I was like, I've heard of like
art therapy. I've heard of dance therapy.
I wonder if there's something that like improv therapy because
improv was very therapeutic for me.
I was like, I'd love to be able to support people in that way
and be that type of improv teacher that that college improv
(37:58):
teacher was for me. And her name is her name is
Heather Parody. I'd love to give a shout out to
her if anybody is listening to this.
Her name used to be Heather Roberts, Heather parody.
She works out of Connecticut now.
I think she works with youth now.
But like I, I was thinking aboutthat.
So I, I literally started looking into like improv therapy
(38:20):
and then I found out about dramatherapy and I was like, oh, this
is interesting. And then another person that I
really wanted to connect with before I moved to New York, that
teacher, Heather Roberts, Heather parody connected me
with. Why am I blanking on his name?
Oh, Martin Demotte. Have you heard of Martin
Demotte? Yes.
(38:41):
Yeah. So she connected me with Martin
Demotte before I moved to New York 'cause she was like, oh,
you would really dig Martin, Jill.
He's very much into psychology and like healing and stuff like
that. Connect with him.
So like a month before I moved to New York to decide to like,
go and study there. I wanted to study with him
'cause he was living in New Yorkat the time.
And I had this like 30 minute conversation with him and it
(39:03):
just was like, I love this man. Like he's like doing improv
about connection and community and it's from the heart.
And it's not about like the the goal being the funny, you know?
And then he passed away right before I left for New York.
And so after that, it was sort of like chasing different ways
(39:25):
to get that education that I would have gotten with Martin.
So I just like found different teachers that studied with him.
And then when I found out about the drama therapy, for whatever
reason, I had in the back of my head, like maybe I read it
somewhere or I heard it from somewhere that he had a
psychology degree, like he had some background in psychology.
(39:47):
And so I was like, well, maybe that's what I need to do.
I need to go down this like pathand I need to study counseling
psychology or something like that.
And so I said, I, I, I applied for two schools.
One was in San Francisco and onewas in New York. 1 was at NYU.
I was in San Francisco and I didn't get into the one at NYU
(40:07):
And I was like, well, OK, but I got into the one in San
Francisco and I moved across thecountry and did it.
And then the ironic thing is oneday, like after I got licensed
as a psychotherapist and I went,got all my hours.
This took like 10 years post graduation.
I was kind of Googling him Martin d'amato's like, oh, I
wonder like I just would, I wantto like learn about him more and
(40:30):
his his legacy. And apparently he got an
honorary degree some school, like he never got a degree in
psychology or anything. He never studied it.
It's just they gave him this honorary degree at Columbia
because he taught all these improv classes and stuff to
people. So they give an honorary degree
from the counseling program. And I was like, Oh my God, I
(40:52):
spent all this money into all these hours.
I didn't need to do all that, you know?
But I'm glad I did. Like, I'm glad I did.
I learned so much. And when I first applied to that
school, you know, most schools they have you write some sort of
statement of purpose, like how are you going to use this
degree? And in my statement of purpose,
I said I want to be an improv teacher, director that sort of
(41:14):
directs improv teachers from theinside out.
And I've always noticed how whenpeople come to an improv class
for the same, for the first time, they are scared to death,
like, and how weird that is. Like, why would you go to
something that you're scared to death of?
You know, like, why would you dothat?
Why would you put yourself in that position?
(41:34):
And then how can a teacher support students that are scared
to death, Right. So that's the type of, like,
teacher I wanted to be. How can I support students learn
this craft of improv that's so vulnerable and help them through
their fears? Yeah.
As you've used improv as a psychotherapy tool, what
benefits and what positive changes have you seen in the
(41:56):
patients that you've applied this to?
Yeah, so I worked for a long time with kids, like I worked
with kids in the foster care system.
So I trained in play therapy, which is very similar to drama
therapy. And it's just magical.
Like play is just magical. I, I, I just, I still remember
this little 6 year old girl thatI worked with and like in her
(42:20):
file before my first session with her, she was, she was, she
had witnessed domestic violence in her house.
Like, so she witnessed like her dad beat up her mom.
So it was very sad. And then her symptoms that she
was struggling with was that shewasn't eating.
This little girl wasn't eating at all.
And she was obsessively cleaningup the house.
(42:42):
Like she was just cleaning like a little 6 year old was cleaning
the house constantly and so on my very first session with her.
So as a play therapist, you're really kind of like in support
of the client. Like you just kind of let the
little little child come into the playroom and just be like,
what do you want to play with? You know, just like very open,
(43:02):
just kind of showing her all thetoys that she could play with.
And the first thing that she went to was the dollhouse and
she took every item out of the dollhouse and like literally
cleaned up the dollhouse to clean it.
And it took like almost the whole session, like she took the
entire session to clean that dollhouse, right?
(43:23):
And then the second thing that she did is she went to the
plastic food and stuff and she made this huge spread for us,
like all the things, you know, set up all the plates, set up
all the cups. And usually when you play like
pretend food with kids, like everybody eats, you know, like
you pretend like you're eating it and then she immediately
cleans it all up. Oh wow.
(43:43):
So like we didn't eat the food right?
And then the session was over and I was like, like, there it
is, there it is. So it's like just the power of
play, you know, like, and for meas a therapist threw out our
sessions together. I would just, my interventions
would just be like asking those questions of like, oh, like,
well, I'm hungry. Like maybe would you would you
(44:06):
want to eat a bite with me? You know, and like just kind of
like playing with that or even with the dollhouse, like it, you
know, like just playing with ways that like, you know, other
people could clean up the house or, you know, like just
constantly letting, letting the interventions come through the
play, right. It's like it acts like a
metaphor. And there was just some really
(44:28):
powerful session. She re enacted the trauma that
she witnessed eventually in the session.
And I really supported her with that.
But it was all through play. It was all through play.
You know, there was that safety.The play becomes the safety in
order to express the stuff. What are some of the differences
that you've noticed between teaching improv to adults and
(44:49):
teaching improv to kids? Oh yeah, yeah.
I worked in children's theater for a long time too and did like
a lot of groups with with kids. So the kids, like, you don't
have to teach them to loosen up and express themselves.
You know, they're just like, youknow, like.
They're already. There, right they're there
they're playful and fun and thenwith the adults, you have to
(45:09):
kind of like take away the rulesthat are inside of their head,
like all that inner critic stuffthat you got to unpack.
So it's like with kids, you got to teach them how to focus and
like play together and share, you know, all those like sharing
skills that they need to learn. And then with adults, you got to
kind of unstrip all that, like those rules that they have in
(45:32):
their heads. Well, now I have to ask you
about Leila. Yeah.
How did Leila get started? So yeah, my husband and I
started the company like we juststarted together.
So I met my husband Christopher.We met in that college improv
troupe. So he was like a six year senior
and I was a freshman when we met.
(45:54):
And yeah, like we just had that experience in that in that
community, that theater Strikeforce that was so
beautiful. And it's funny.
Sometimes I'll I'll talk to other theater Strikeforce people
and I tell them about our company and they're like, you
guys just recreated theater Strikeforce.
That's what you guys did. Because yeah, we were really
exposed to this beautiful community.
(46:16):
And what was cool about it, It was not just for theater majors
like the leader of the group, Heather, Heather parody.
She like opened it up as a club to anybody at at the university.
So we had people that were like physics majors and you know,
maybe they were getting their PhD and like political science
or something. So we had just like such a wide
(46:37):
spectrum of people come to that club.
And it was like over 100 people at at one point and that would
like meet and cram into this upper lobby area together.
So when Chris and I were like figuring out this was in San
Francisco, was going through grad school and he's like, well,
Jim, why don't you just like start applying what you're doing
(46:58):
in school and start teaching classes?
You know, don't you want to be an improv teacher?
Like that's what you want to do,Like start applying what you're
learning. And I was like, really?
And he's really good about computers and he's a tech.
He was a technical theater major.
So he's like a tech director kind of guy.
So he's loves creating structures and he did the
(47:18):
website and he started how to, how to sell classes and all the
infrastructure for that. So the two of us together are
like really good. And then when we were trying to
figure out what to call this thing, right?
I was like, huh, like what, what, what do I want to call
this thing? And I told him I was like, I
think I have two requirements. Like, I want the the name to be
(47:41):
meaningful, of course, and then I want it to be a woman's name.
So like just doing classes at UCB and at that time in the 90s,
there were so few women doing improv.
It was just like, like a weird thing to be in a woman doing
improv. So I really wanted a woman's
name. So I was like, literally looking
(48:01):
in baby books for a woman's name.
That was meaningful to me. And then I also was reading this
book by Stephen Nachmanovic. Have you read Free Play?
Do you know that book? Yes.
Yeah. So the first chapter of that
book, he talks about Leela, which means play in Sanskrit.
So I was like, oh, yeah, that's it for me.
(48:22):
You know, studying so much aboutplay therapy in drama therapy
school and just the huge momentsI've had as a play therapist, I
was like, yeah, this is it for me.
Like improv is not synonymous with comedy.
To me, improv is synonymous, synonymous with play.
So I just really wanted to have a company just like play.
(48:47):
And then what's also cool about Leela is my husband was studying
at our school. The school that I went to for
grad school, they had a sound voice and music healing program.
So he was going through that certificate program and his
teacher was really into Sanskritand meditation.
And she talked a lot about the seed syllables in the Sanskrit
(49:10):
language and how like when, likewhen you say Om, right, when
you're going to Om and you're meditating, it's meant to create
a peaceful, peaceful experience in your body.
Like somatically, right? So Leela is very similar.
Or when you say it, it creates aplayful experience in your body.
(49:31):
So I just like, woo, this is it.This is it.
What's also cool is, like, it means purple and German logo and
like, website design is around purple, and purple's a very fun,
playful color too. So yeah, it's really beautiful.
What's funny too is, like, so many people come up to me and
call me Lila, you know, 'cause it's a woman's name and they
(49:51):
think I'm Lila, which is funny. Yeah.
Yeah, I was going to ask if you get a lot of people mistakenly
calling you Lila. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that happens a lot too, Yeah.How do you feel like Leela
stands out among what's now the endless sea of improv schools
and theaters? Yeah, I do think the the, the
(50:13):
woman perspective, I think hopefully is there.
There's like a feminine or a matriarchal kind of feeling to
it, I feel like. And yeah, that just like, hey,
this is not comedy, you know? We're not doing comedy here.
However, like if you go to a Leela show, especially like in
(50:36):
San Francisco where everything'slike fully realized, you're
going to be laughing your ass off.
You know, it's like so funny what those those improvisers are
doing, but they're not going forthe joke, right?
It's just so much more like a collaborative experience, like
that game of telephone, right? That's where the laughs are
stemming from. What's it like to run this
(50:57):
theater alongside your husband? Oh, that's another, that's
another podcast. I don't think if anybody's
interviewed us together, like I think that would be a really
interesting experience because it's hard.
Yeah, it's really hard. The business of it, I think it's
really interesting. I come from a family that, you
(51:17):
know, business was a part of thefamily.
And now I'm like kind of recreating that experience too.
And then his experience, like hegrew up at Disney, his dad
worked in marketing as at DisneyWorld.
So he has that influence too, oflike growing up in entertainment
and that being like part of the family.
(51:37):
But yeah, just it's just it's hard.
It's hard. I think we each also have to
make sure, because running a business like there's so much
admin, there's so much unsexy stuff to what you got to do is,
and I'm probably like, we have to make sure that we're
scheduling in time for us to like, perform.
And like, for him especially, hedoes a lot of the finance and
(51:59):
the website and the producing ofthings like he needs to teach.
He's got to be with the students, you know?
So just like making sure we're doing those things, yeah.
I remember because I'm a big fanof Penn and Teller, and I
remember Penn saying that one ofthe reasons why the two of them
work so well is because they're willing to fight with each
(52:19):
other. And I've heard that be a similar
thing with many other duos and partnerships.
Do you feel like that's something that you and Chris
experience? Yeah, I mean, we, I wish we
wouldn't do it as much, you know, because it's, it's like
I'm the artistic director and he's the executive producer.
I mean, those are like, you know, and it's really hard
(52:43):
because his his his goal, his objective is the bottom line.
You know, we can't lose money, right?
And we got to make money. You know, where I'm coming from,
the artistic point of view whereit's like, but for the art, you
know, where I don't care as muchabout the money.
But you know, a lot of his decisions need to trump my
decisions or we or we're not going to be in business anymore.
(53:05):
So like, I think those are some of our big, big fights we've
had. And then and that we're not a
nonprofit that's been very intentional for us.
Like we don't want to be, you know, fundraising constantly and
working on donors constantly. That's just not the life and
what we feel like we're good at,you know, so we've always wanted
(53:26):
to be a for profit company. So we want to make sure that the
company is sustainable first andforemost.
Yeah. Do you think you'll keep it in
the family and make your daughter take improv classes
too? Yes, so I have, I'm not the best
with like social media and all that kind of stuff and graphic
design. So like I've been trying to
learn on Canva and she's been watching me and so she's gotten
(53:49):
really into Canva. I'm like, all right, you go
girl, like take this over if you've got all this graphic
design. I want to put her in a graphic
design class so she can do it. Yeah, and then you don't have to
pay an artist. You could just get your daughter
to do it. Yeah, exactly.
You can always use the excuse I pay you with food and shelter,
yeah. Yeah, there is actually some
interesting tax things you can do with with your own business
(54:12):
if you hire a a person in the family.
So yeah, you can definitely do all that, yeah.
You know, I'm curious, Jill. You definitely wear many hats.
You're a therapist. You're a performer.
You're an instructor. You run a theater and at the
same time, you're also a wife and a mom.
Do you feel at times it's kind of difficult to balance all of
(54:35):
those things that you do? Yeah, I think so.
I think I'm still, you know, it's still a process.
It's still a like as our business in Raleigh, we're doing
more with our, with our the eastside branch of our our business.
I'm like teaching every night this week and I'm just like, oh
God, I miss my daughter, you know, like I miss putting her to
(54:57):
bed at night and you know, all of that.
So it's it's constantly re evaluating like, OK, like, is
this a good use of my time rightnow?
I'm sure a lot of parents feel that way.
It's like you get a little bit more choosy.
Like it's like parents that are artists, you just become a
little bit more choosy with yourwith your time where I felt like
(55:19):
before I was a parent, I was like, yeah, I'll go to that
festival. I'll go to that festival.
Like I'll teach that class, I'lldo that show, whatever.
But now I'm like, OK, is this worth my time and energy right
now or would I rather be home with my daughter, You know?
So it's just being really choosy.
Do you have the ability to sort of step outside yourself for a
moment, see everything that you're doing and reaffirm to
(55:41):
yourself? Wow, I really love what I'm
doing. Yeah, yeah, I tried.
I've been trying to do more of that lately because yeah, I can
just get so caught up in the present moment, you know, just
like I got to do this and I got A to do list, like one thing
after another. So I have been trying to make
more time to just do that. Look my look around and be like,
(56:03):
wow, I'm so grateful. Like this is amazing.
We've made it happen. We made our we realized our
dream. Yeah.
I think especially now when we are at a time where life now
just moves incredibly fast, probably faster than it's ever
had before. And I love to have that time
where you could just pause and look at everything and just
(56:26):
breathe and be like, wow, I really love this.
Yeah. It's really important.
I think it's really, it's something that I try to teach my
students to, to just like be in the moment, notice the moment.
Like we often live in that life of like what's next, what's
next, what's next, right? So just to, I think that's
what's so healing about improv. If you're forced to be in the
(56:47):
moment, you have to be in the moment.
And it's so cool that it's a disposable art form, right?
Like nobody's recording it. It's not being logged.
It's just like, hey, let's just be in this moment.
And then it let it, let it go. Just let it go.
Yeah, well, Jill, I've got one more question for you, my
(57:07):
friend. What's the one piece of advice
that has served you well that you'd want everyone else to
hear? Oh.
My gosh, that's a really good one.
That's hard. So one piece of advice I don't
(57:28):
know LD should prepared for thisone.
What's the one piece of advice that, Well, I think like,
something that my, my husband's really good with me about is, is
making sure I'm having fun. Yeah.
(57:49):
Like he always tells our teachers that too, when things
get too stressful. Like he's just like, are you
having fun? Are you having fun making sure
that you're having fun? Because, like, why do it?
Like especially improv, you know, if the audience sees that
you're not having fun, they're not going to have fun, right.
So like, and, and that and that,and that's a hard thing.
It's just like you can't just belike have fun gel, you know,
(58:12):
it's like you got to really unpack like what is fun and and
how can you have fun? You know, I think about my
family sometimes, like my dad isvery serious.
He's an engineer. He's always like, I wanted to
make sure that he had all these dreams of having his own
business and making a lot of money from his business, but I
(58:34):
never really saw him having fun like any.
And he struggles with that a loteven now, like into retirement.
Like, you know, once I'm done with my business, like, how do I
have fun? So like, I think it's just an
important question for us as as humans and as improvisers that
we just need to re evaluate all the time.
It's like, are you having fun? And like, how can you have fun?
(58:58):
How do you have fun? Yeah.
Fun does tend to be underestimated a lot, doesn't
it? Yeah.
And then and then that's what? And that's what play is.
It is fun, you know, like even even in those serious moments,
like I talked about that one little girl when she like
reenacted the trauma through play therapy, like there was an
intensity to her. I don't know if I don't know if
(59:19):
you would call it fun for her, but there was an intensity and a
creativity to what she was doingthat she needed to get out of
herself, You know, So it was like to it's it's creative.
It's like a creative channel, you know, that we need to like
let out, right. And maybe that is fun, or maybe
(59:40):
that's creativity, but it it's expression.
It's expression like finding a way to have that those like
moments of expression that we need to get out of ourselves.
Well, Jill, I had an absolutely wonderful time with you today.
I cannot thank you enough for being here and I wish you and
your family all the best my friend.
(01:00:02):
You too great to connect with you ALDI.
Are you having fun? Are you remembering to enjoy
what you do? Remember to always find the fun
and the joy, because that's always the most important part.
My thanks to Jill Eichmann for this conversation today.
(01:00:24):
To learn more about her theater Leela, visit their website
leela-n-c.com. And to learn more about Jill's
work as a drama therapist, visitjilleichmann.com.
My friends, thanks so much for sticking with me.
I appreciate you all and I hope you stick around for more.
(01:00:46):
To find out how you can sponsor an episode, visit my website
ldmadera.com and remember, you are who you are and you are
special. Take care.
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