December 16, 2025 • 55 mins
In today's episode, world-renowned magician, author, and lecturer Joshua Jay joins me for an unforgettable conversation about the art of illusion, creativity, and storytelling.
Known for his appearances on Penn & Teller: Fool Us, Good Morning America, and The Today Show, Joshua shares insights into his journey as a magician, his passion for teaching, and the secrets behind creating magic that resonates with audiences worldwide. He is celebrated for his innovative approach to close-up magic and stage performance. He has performed in over 100 countries, won the World Magic Seminar Championship in 1998, and even holds a Guinness World Record for finding 21 cards in 1 minute. Joshua Jay blends storytelling and sleight of hand to create unforgettable performances.
Tune in to hear Joshua Jay's fascinating journey. Whether you're a magician, performer, or simply a fan of magic, this episode will leave you with a deeper appreciation for the craft.
Don't forget to rate and review. Learn more about LD and the podcast by visiting ldmadera.com.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:02):
Hello friends. Hello everybody.
I'm LD Madera and you are listening to the Improv and
Magic Podcast, the only podcast that celebrates improvisers and
magicians. My friends, what a show we have
(00:22):
today. I am thrilled to have as my
guest one of the biggest names in Magic today, Joshua J.
Yes, the Joshua J worldwide performer, author and Co founder
of Vanishing Inc. I learned so much from this
conversation and I hope you willtoo.
So wherever you are, get comfy and enjoy my conversation with
(00:48):
Joshua J. My friends, I am incredibly
honored to welcome here on Improv and Magic.
He's a magician like no other. He's the one and only.
Joshua J. Hey, Joshua, so good to have you
(01:11):
here. It's such a pleasure to be here.
Thanks for making the time. You know, you are talking to me
with a very enthusiastic attitude and you sound very
pleasant and energized, but I can't help but wonder, how are
you just not completely exhausted right now?
Because you are constantly traveling from one city, from
one country to the next, shows and lectures?
(01:33):
How do you manage to keep yourself energized and going?
You know, I mean, I guess the 2 answers to that question are I
am exhausted. I'm always exhausted.
But also I work very hard and I relax very hard.
So what happens is I know if there's a period, like I'm kind
(01:56):
of in a rest period now, even though I am leaving tomorrow for
a small show thing, I don't leave until the 30th of this
month. So I have like another 10 days
or so before I have to really gear up.
But I realized when that 10 daysis up, I will be on the go for
45 days without a day off. I'm doing a long month long run
(02:18):
in Chicago. We've got the retreat in Mexico.
I've got 3 private shows in between all those other things
in different countries. So what I do is I just psyched
myself into it and I know it's coming.
So I I rest hard and then I workhard and I guess that's that's
the secret. Was it tough for you to adjust
in the beginning of having to doso much traveling?
(02:40):
No, quite the opposite. I I didn't travel.
My family didn't travel a ton asa kid, certainly not
internationally. And I was so curious about the
world. I wanted to see all the amazing
places. So in the beginning I realized
that magic could be a great doorway to see those places.
(03:01):
So I would say to you from the for the 1st 10 years of my
career, I was motivated to get to everywhere I could,
regardless of if there was a feeor if it would I'd break even or
if not and I would just wanted to get everywhere.
And to a degree, I've just neverslowed down.
I'm still so up for an adventure.
(03:22):
I mean, I just took an international show for, for very
low money at the expense of a much better situation here in
the States because I just never been to where that show is and I
I wanted to see it. So this is happening all the
time. I love that the adventure never
(03:43):
ends. Oh, no.
I mean, look, I look at my colleagues who don't explore the
world around them as the weird ones, even though I'm the weird
one. I mean, it's so crazy to me that
like, let's say, OK, you're going to do a convention.
I did last year in Bulgaria, like what an amazing country
filled with interesting things to see.
And of all the other international performers, not a
(04:05):
single one came early or stayed late to see it.
They were like, well, it's just a gig.
I'm just going to fly in, do theshow.
And like, how can you leave a place like Bulgaria without
looking around? You know, Italy, we just all got
back from FISM, you know, I got there early, I stayed late.
I wanted to see, you know, Torino, which I've been to
(04:26):
before, and, and other places, and so many people, they fly in,
they fly out. They got tunnel vision for
magic. And that's just very odd to me.
But not everybody likes adventures.
So you definitely have the ability to stop and smell the
roses, so to speak. You have to.
I mean, I couldn't do what I do if I didn't enjoy, you know,
(04:49):
getting to see the world that magic opens up for you.
Well, I'm excited to learn more about you, Joshua.
So where did you grow up and what was growing up like for
you? I had a great childhood.
I grew up in Canton, OH, great parents, divorced parents.
So I split my time evenly between mom's house and dad's
(05:09):
house. Both remarried, you know, sadly
all parents and my, my mom, my mom is alive, but my dad passed
away, stepdad just passed away recently.
So that's kind of this the bittersweet ending to that.
But let me see. I grew up in Akron, OH, loved
(05:31):
growing up a little bit isolated.
I had a great magic club in town.
I would see every lecture and show that that came through
northeastern Ohio. But for the most part, I didn't
learn from a teacher. I learned by creating my own.
At first terrible and then hopefully later on less terrible
tricks. I was isolated.
(05:51):
I'm an only child, so I stayed in my room a lot and read every
magic book cover to cover, backwards and forwards.
Tried every trick in it and slowly started to come up with
my own stuff. And I learned pretty early on
that creating my own material was what really scratched the
itch for me. That to me was the was the
(06:14):
height of artistic magic. And the people I looked up to
were so clever above everything else in magic that they could
come up with those things. And I wanted to be those people
and I wanted to emulate those people.
I myself and am also an only child and I've had the
opportunity to speak to other guests here who are also only
(06:35):
children. And we've talked about the whole
concept of when you're an only child, you kind of end up
creating your own world, which is usually in your own bedroom.
Does that sound like something similar to what you went
through? Completely, completely.
And I was an only child of divorced parents where I would
go back and forth and I was the only one in in each house that
(06:58):
was a kid. And so, yeah, makes complete
sense. And you know when you have to
completely occupy your own time?And I just wasn't a kid who
played with neighborhood kids very much.
So when you're completely occupying your own time, you
have to learn how to entertain yourself.
And magic is a dream for entertaining yourself.
(07:20):
So, you know, you turn you turn a negative into a positive and
and magic becomes this all engrossing thing that you can't
get enough of. Well, what was it that got you
interested in magic? So my father was, was a dentist
by trade, but he loved magic andwe did it together.
(07:43):
We went to a local magic club and you know, we tried other
things. We tried Boy Scouts and I did
T-ball and I, I did sports as a kid.
But when I saw him do a magic trick, when he taught me my
first magic trick, something clicked.
It just it was just fascinating to me.
I mean truly sounds corny and trite to say it, but it was as
(08:04):
fascinating to me then as it is now.
I'm just engrossed by magic. I think it's so wonderful.
You know, I just went and saw a a show here in Vegas, a non
magic variety review show with acrobatics and comedy and it was
really good. It was really good show.
But I just thought to myself thewhole time, as great as this is,
(08:27):
who knows if it's because I've thought it lived and breathed
magic the, you know, the last 30years of my life.
But I would just so much be watching, rather be watching
magic than anything else. And, you know, I know people
feel that way about musicals. People feel that way about
basketball. But for me, Magic really is my
(08:49):
calling, you know, it's a passion.
It's, it's even more than a passion.
It's like an impulse. Do you know what I mean?
Like, I can't not do it. If I should for some weird
reason go a whole day without a deck of cards in my hand to to
drill something or work on something, I feel weird.
There are a lot of people who, like you, get into magic when
(09:10):
they're very young. There's also some people who
kind of get into it later. Do you think had you gotten into
it later, like maybe in your teens or as an adult, you would
still have the same love for magic then as you do now?
I mean, I do, yeah. I, I absolutely do.
I mean, you know, I hear magicians say sometimes I'm
suffering burnout. I have burnout.
I have burnout. I don't think I've ever had
(09:32):
burnout, not even, I mean there have been there have been months
where I haven't had so much as aday off when I was doing 6
impossible things. I was doing Wednesday to Sunday,
2 shows a night and matinee is included on the weekends.
And then that Monday, Tuesday, Iwas always doing private stuff
(09:53):
that I would get from those. So it was seven days a week and
there were TV appearances and many other things.
And even when it was that hectic, or when I go on a three
month lecture tour where you're lecturing every night, never
once did I feel like it's too much.
I'm sick of this. I would feel of course, like I'm
(10:14):
tired. I could use a break.
But I mean, it's always funny tome that I get home from these
big sweeping tours and the firstthing I do is start working on
new stuff. That's just like, that's my
impulse. I get very sick sometimes of the
business side of it or the people within magic, but never
magic itself. It's like this perfect thing
(10:34):
that never I never tired of. Many of us who at a young age
decide to get into magic have that all too familiar talk with
their parents where you tell them I want to be a magician and
they say you need a real job. Did you ever go through anything
similar with your parents? No, not at all.
I can I can say that they were very supportive.
I mean, my father had a very different sort of life situation
(11:00):
in that his parents died very young.
So he felt very compelled to getout of school and start earning
money and do the thing that everybody else does that have a
family young and, and just get started on it.
And because of that, like, I don't think he loved what he
did. And you know, it's very hard.
It's let's say 40 years old to just sort of go, I want to make
(11:23):
a career change. So he did it, he did it very
well and he did it with a smile on his face, but he really
stressed to a large degree. Find something you really love
and make a living from that. And I think that can only
usually come from a place of someone who maybe didn't take
(11:43):
that advice themselves. And so it was always in my home
for my mom and my dad, a question of like, find something
you love and you'll find a way to make it work somehow.
And I was very lucky because I won some awards at a young age.
I, I published a book very young, probably too young.
And I had enough, let's call it momentum to start traveling the
(12:09):
world and make a little name within the magic community.
And that made it easier to stageshows and and start my
professional work. Last season I had the
opportunity to speak with your best friend Andy Gladwin, and he
gave me this great visual about the first time the two of you
met, which was on Lance Burton shows and the both of you were
(12:30):
wearing brightly colored suits. Do you do you remember that time
where you first met Andy? Oh, of course I do.
Yeah. You don't forget a monumental
moment like that in your life. I mean, we didn't know it then,
but you know the the crazy thingabout there, there are many
crazy things surrounding that Lance Burden special.
(12:50):
So let me take you through it. Like people have to remember
that at that moment, Lance was the guy.
I mean, Copperfield was always the guy.
I think this is pre David Blaine.
But you know, Lance was Mr. Vegas, but he had television
specials and they were a big deal.
And so we should never forget that in the height of Lance's
(13:12):
fame, he chose to spotlight and help young magicians.
He ran a young magicians like mini convention at what was
called the Desert Magic Seminar and he used to put young
magicians in his television special.
Nobody since has done that to that degree.
So we all owe Lance a debt of gratitude for putting others
(13:34):
before himself. That's a really big.
Deal. And I believe he's still doing
that. He's still providing a lot of
support for young magicians, isn't?
He. I believe so, yeah.
I think that they just handed over the reins after many years
for the IBM. He was running his conference.
So now somebody else is taking it over.
But yeah, no, he's, he's a greatchampion of young magicians.
(13:54):
And what's weird was I was just ramping up my, I was only 17,
but I was already starting to travel for magic and I ran into
Lance Burton in an airport. I mean, that is like the chances
of that happening. I run into people at airports
because I'm always at airports, but it's so rare.
And to see Lance Burton randomlyat an airport and have him look
(14:15):
at me, me and go, oh, Josh, we just sent you a letter.
I mean, this is how long it was.They were, they told me by snail
mail that my submission had been, you know, accepted.
And he goes, we just sent you a letter.
You're going to be on my next television special.
What? So that was a great moment.
And yes, there were a lot of wonderful young magicians that I
(14:35):
met for the first time there. And that included Andy Gladwin,
who, you know, was from the UK and did an extremely cute and
awesomely terrible, I think it was an arrow basket illusion.
And we stayed in touch from there.
And, you know, years and years later, we stayed in touch
online. I was lecturing in the UK and I
(14:57):
met up with Andy, who at that time had a job in the corporate
sphere, in the tech sphere. And I said, can we get together?
Can we hang out? Can I stay with you?
And we sort of burst the idea ofa partnership in Vanishing Ink.
And the rest is history. Do you still have that suit by
the way? You know, I think I do somewhere
(15:17):
somehow, and it probably almost fits me now.
You know, the 90s were a time for big, bulky, overgrown suits.
So that's. It yes, they were.
So you know, talk about all the awards that you've received.
One that I'm particularly interested in is in January 2016
you received a Guinness World. Record.
(15:40):
And it was for being able to find 21 cards in one minute.
How was that? Experience for you.
Well, I thought you were going to ask about my Merlin Award.
Thinking of prestigious awards? That's on the list.
Don't. Worry, OK, I'm just kidding you.
Yeah. I mean, so that's, I mean, I'm
happy to talk frankly about that.
(16:01):
That that was entirely you know,it's so rare when things work
out in the plan, you orchestrateand I knew that what I wanted
out of that was two things I wanted to say I want a Guinness
World Record because I think that that's the rare accolade
that inspires curiosity. Now, if you just are introduced
(16:25):
and it's like Joshua J has been on The Tonight Show, he's done
this, he's won this, he's performed here.
He sold this out, he sold that. That's like an OK, nice little
brags, right? Little ways of of showing your
your credibility to an audience,but holds a Guinness World
Record for card tricks. Anytime anybody hears that in
(16:46):
the bio or something, they always ask about it.
And I knew that that's, I mean, that's exactly what you want.
You want people curious about the things you do.
And I wanted to create a closer of my show.
And I knew even then what the ingredients were going to be.
I wanted to do a beat the clock scenario.
That is such a great way to add drama.
(17:07):
You know, for those of us who don't do illusions where we're
going to escape from ropes that are on fire with daggers beneath
us. If you don't do that kind of
escape type stuff, you have to find other ways to increase the
drama. And one of the greatest ways
I've found is a beat the clock scenario where you're racing
against time. And then on top of that, if you
(17:31):
can add in like a showpiece that's unique to you, you know,
a sort of signature piece for anending where you can tell a
story, all the better. And I had just been through this
injury with my hand. And so I set out to create a
Guinness World Record trick. And my plan all along, I knew
that I needed to like find so many cards to set the record.
(17:54):
I forget it was initially, but Ithink it was 20 some cards that
I had to do, which 20 some cardsin 60 seconds is so
unentertaining. You are just basically pushing
cards out of a deck. That's all you can do.
However, I thought correctly, I think once I set the record, I
(18:15):
can make up any routine for it that I want.
So the routine to this day that ends my show is not 26 cards.
I say it's the world record routine.
I say that I'm the Guinness World Record holder.
All that's true, but then the routine that I do is a very
breezy 10 cards, which feels great.
(18:36):
It still feels, by the way, really rushed.
There's a beat the buzzer ending.
But I've done this at a halftimeshow for the Milwaukee Bucks in
front of 20,000 people. I've done this, you know, on
stage at Carnegie Hall and the Kennedy Center.
I mean, I've done this everywhere and it plays big, it
plays intimate. It's, it's just, it does
(18:57):
everything I wanted in a closer and I knew that I hoped that
that would happen and that's whyI set out to do that one.
You briefly mentioned your hand injury and I did hear the story
about that. And I feel like going through
that experience where you're notsure if you're going to be able
to move your hand or not and whether or not you have to start
(19:17):
doing magic one handed. I think that's a very
interesting part of your story because I think it speaks to
your determination and your perseverance.
Is that something that is kind of a big part of who you are,
being able to persevere no matter what?
Well, it's very kind of you to say.
I mean, you know, it's interesting.
(19:38):
The narratives in your life really only come into focus when
they're over and it becomes about how you frame them.
I mean, I look back, it's like part of my own ancient history
now that I went through this. I play sports.
I lift weights, I can go about my life on my my hand is not a
handicap in any way, thank God. But I can tell you going through
(20:00):
it, you're not sitting there going like, well, I'll use this
in my ACT. I'll talk about this.
This is a defining moment for me.
You're sitting there stressed ashell, thinking I may not use my
hand again. And you know the part that even
I forget sometimes is like. There's nobody on the front end
(20:22):
of these types of injuries. At least there wasn't for me
telling me it's all going to be fine.
You know, from the moment I had this injury, for those who don't
know, I was water skiing and collided with a a metal buoy at
55 miles an hour and I had threesurgeries.
On my left hand. I had a plate, 5 screws, 2 pins
put in. I basically spent six months on
(20:42):
my back. I was all banged up, was very
serious injury. You know, the first thing I
wanted to know was like, I don'tcare what it takes.
I don't care how many surgeries.I don't care how long the
therapy is. Just tell me I'm going to be
able to use my hand again. And you know, these surgeons,
they really don't know. And they're like, I can't tell
you that. I can't tell you that at all.
(21:04):
We're going to have to see how the first one goes and then
what's left for the second one. OK, OK, fine.
But tell me this, the feeling will come back, right?
I will have feeling in my fingertips.
No, some do and some don't. It's going to be a touch and go.
I don't think it'll be the same,I can tell you that.
But what does that mean? It's not going to be the same.
You know, the uncertainty overtakes you.
(21:25):
And then of course, these surgeries, you have to
recuperate from 1:00 and then you have the next one.
You get multiple opinions. And these are really, really
rare procedures that were done on my wrist that, you know, the
specialists and they're moving nerves around and they're,
they're basically reconstructingmy wrist across several
(21:45):
operations. And like the whole time you're
waiting around. Yeah, I can remember thinking to
myself, I'm going to have to learn to do things like tie my
shoe with one hand or eat with the other hand because I was
left-handed. I'm going to have to learn to
like put on a shirt and button my buttons with one hand, like
to, to bathe myself. I, I just, I was preparing like
(22:08):
I wasn't going to have much use of my left hand ever again.
And then, you know, the great miracle is it all came back.
And what's funny is after the surgery, they were very
confident that I could get mobility back, but they were not
confident that I'd get feeling back.
And my God, like to hold a deck of cards and dealing grip in
your left hand and not be able to feel, you know, your ring and
(22:32):
little fingers. It's just, you know, it's the
worst thing in the world. I was coming up with all these
alternatives of other things andyou know, it eventually came
back. The one other thing I would tell
you, you know, Speaking of turning negatives and the
positives, is during that periodwhen I thought I was only going
(22:53):
to be able to use one hand, I really took it seriously and I
started to create magic for the first time.
If you look at my work, my work before that was pure sleight of
hand. I really didn't use a lot of
gimmicks, but I switched at thatpoint, favoring a lot of
subtlety, a lot of clever technique, a lot of, you know,
different principles that didn'trely on manual dexterity for the
(23:17):
reason that I thought I wouldn'tbe able to do it anymore.
And that, you know, learning to develop those mental muscles
and, and sort of develop my toolbox into a more well-rounded
way really helped a ton. What I love about watching you
perform, and even now as I hear you talk, there definitely is a
(23:38):
great emphasis on storytelling in your act.
For you, how important is creating a story in magic?
Oh, well, I mean, you know, thisis something that I've become
very passionate about. I think Magic is a wonderful way
to communicate story, and somewhere along the lines I feel
like people started to look to me as some kind of a guru in
(24:01):
this area. It's not the case at all.
I don't view myself that way. You know, I have a very sort of
muted relationship to stories and Magic.
I tell some, if you know of my work, you know that in Trojan
Deck I tell the story of how my parents met, which is a true
story. SO22 decks are shuffled.
(24:23):
I shuffle 1A participant shuffles 1, and as they shuffle,
I tell the story of how my parents met.
And there's another trick calledOut of Sight, which is another
true story about doing magic fora blind person.
It's what would look like if youdid magic that you didn't have
to see, magic that you could feel.
And I've told stories about my hand injury.
(24:44):
I have a trick called Balance that tells the story of doing
magic for people in prisons. So I feel like magicians have
this idea that I'm the storytelling guy.
Nothing really could be further from the truth.
I mean, for all the tricks I have with stories, I have 10
times more that have no narrative line going in them.
(25:08):
And I feel quite strongly that when you tell stories with
magic, the stories have to servethe magic.
If they detract or don't add, they have to come out.
And the most important one, that's the hardest one to nail
is, you know, you never want to use specifics in magic because
as soon as you make a rule, somebody will show you how they
can break it, which is great. But I really offer the advice.
(25:32):
As a rule, you get about 3:00 to4:00 sentences.
That's about how long you get before you have to do something
or have some kind of magic effect.
When you go longer than 3 or 4 sentences, you know 5 or 6
sentences at the Max. Your story is almost certainly
going to start to detract. People who are regular listeners
(25:53):
of this podcast will know that I'm very fond of asking this
question, especially to magicians.
There are magicians who, when they perform, they are 100%
authentically themselves. And then there are other
magicians who decide they're going to portray someone
completely different from themselves.
And then there are some who kindof meet in the middle somewhere.
(26:14):
When you perform, how much of Joshua J do we really see?
Yeah, You know, it's a great question.
Guys have spoken on this before and it's a fascinating
conversation. Your observation is exactly
right. There are success stories on all
sides of it. I would say to you that I am
constantly striving to be the best and most theatrical version
(26:38):
of myself on stage. I want to be honest.
I want to be authentic. But you know how it is
authentic. You is like today, it's like
Wednesday afternoon, me in my house alone doing a bunch of
work and writing and reading andgetting stuff done that's not
really interesting on a stage. You know, you want to put the
(26:58):
most interesting version of yourself, the part that would
fascinate people and the part that you know, the parts that
hopefully would interest them. And you get to spend so little
time with your audiences. You're, you're obliged to to
show them a good time and, and be as interesting as possible.
I've never had any desire to be somebody else or make up stories
(27:22):
about myself or, or play a character.
I don't begrudge anybody else. I just saw Lucy Darling's show
here in Vegas and she plays a character that couldn't be
further from Carissa Hendricks. And it was marvelous.
And so, you know, it's just isn't it wonderful that we we
come in a craft that there is noone prescriptive way to be to be
(27:45):
successful, so to speak? Yeah, it's like the old Eugene
Berger quote. The House of Magic has many
rooms. Yeah.
So you are always constantly notjust performing, but inventing
magic and inventing methods. At what point do you feel like
this trick is done and it's ready for an audience?
(28:05):
Yeah, that's, that's really hardto know.
I can tell you that the process for me as I do it more and more
is I actually try and put it in front of an audience earlier
because what I'm learning is guesswork.
Even as you get better, only gets you so far.
(28:27):
And I can guess and guess and guess and guess and guess.
But you know, whether I spend 3 or 4 hours on an idea or 100
hours on an idea, and I've done both, you really don't know
anything until you put it in front of an audience.
And there will always be blind spots.
Like wow, I was so worried aboutthe force and the force flew by
(28:48):
no problem. But I was so sure this ending
would crush. And the ending's the worst part,
you know, there is just, it never goes exactly to plan, at
least not for me. So anymore I'm like really eager
to put it in front of an audience because I I just want
to figure out the weak spots andstart improving on those.
(29:12):
After you've finished creating apiece for your show, are you
able to be satisfied where it is?
Or are you the type that will say, you know what, I bet I
could change something else. Do you like to continue to
tinker away at pieces that you've invented?
Yeah. I mean, this is a great question
you've asked and, you know, it'sa softball question.
(29:32):
So, you know, you're giving me alayup to say what I should say,
which is, look, we are gardeners.
You never stop improving. You can always try and improve a
trick. But I also know very few
magicians who, through their actions, not their words, would
say contrary to that. And that, you know, I'm as
(29:53):
guilty as anybody else. When a trick starts really
working and feeling great, you don't change much about it.
And there are tricks in my show that haven't changed so much as
a word in years because they're doing what I feel they need to
be doing. And I've put every second under
a microscope and it seems like it's working pretty well now.
(30:15):
The perfectionist in me, if I really sit and think about it,
yeah, I'd like to change that. I'd like to brush this up.
I wish I could build this a little differently and it looked
a little better. Whatever it is, we shouldn't
ever stop working. But that's just not, that's
probably not the honest answer that that that we should be more
(30:36):
honest about, I guess. You've also had many television
appearances. Have you found that there were
times where you kind of had to adjust your performance because
you're moving from a live audience to the TV camera?
Yeah, almost all the time. The only, you know, I will say
this and, and I'm really grateful to Gabe Blackstone and
(30:57):
and Masters of Illusion. That's the only TV show where
they let me do exactly what I want, the way I want it.
And a lot of people pick on thatshow because you know it by the
very nature of it. They film like whatever it is,
20 some episodes in four days. They get a ton of talented
(31:18):
performers in. You have very limited time with
all the cameras and all the crew.
And so, you know, it's a, it's abit of a, a factory you're in,
you do your thing, you get out. If something messes up, you do
another take, you get in, you get out.
And then the audience is, you know, studio audience.
And it's just, it's not, it's not a David Blaine special in
(31:40):
how it's produced, let's say it that way.
But what I hope people would consider hand in hand with it is
they give the performers a lot of latitude, which I appreciate.
You know, when I've done Fallon and Cordon and the Today show
and some of these really big high profile things, we
magicians, we are there in the worst spot to fill in probably
(32:06):
for a celebrity who cancelled. Our time is variable depending
on how long the monologue went or or what's leftover.
We have no control over things that comes with star power.
I mean, I'm sure when David Blaine goes on The Tonight Show
he gets editing rights, but I certainly didn't.
So you have to be great and you have to be great when the deck
(32:29):
is stacked so far against you and it's really hard.
It's really, really hard. I mean, 6 Impossible Things kind
of was a moment for me where allof a sudden they, these
producers were coming to me asking me to be on these shows.
And that was such an honor. It was also such a stress that I
(32:49):
do not miss those moments. You know, they were, I didn't
sleep for weeks leading up to some of those big TV appearances
because you know, they're live and you don't get a retake and
you're doing material where the host might try and throw you
under a bus to to be funny and you have to live with the
(33:12):
result. So.
Whether it's live or on television, the audience, of
course, is always The X Factor because you never really know
what you're going to get. How do you manage to kind of
keep yourself prepared and be ready for what different types
of audiences bring you? I mean experience, you just, you
(33:34):
can't, you can't, you know, experience is, is the only
teacher in that regard. And that's why these days, you
know, I don't view a trick, especially a new piece, as
anything until it's gone through50 or or 100 performances, then
I start to understand what's happening with it.
We've talked briefly about a lotof the awards that you've won
(33:57):
over the years. If there was one award that I
would definitely put on my mantle, it would be the Foolish
Trophy. I remember watching you on Penn
and Teller Fool us, and that's where you told the story of
sharing a magic trick with a little blind girl.
And then of course, I held my breath, as I'm sure you did, as
Teller walked up to you with hisnotebook.
(34:20):
How was that experience for you to do Fool Us and to get a Fool
Us trophy? Truly wonderful, wonderful from
start to finish, you know, totally unexpected.
I, I hoped I would fool them. I mean, everybody who talks
about going in saying like, well, you're not trying to fool
them. You're, you're just trying to
(34:41):
get good footage. Well, you know, let's, let's be
reasonable here. You are trying.
I think you should go into, it'slike saying, you know, you go
into a sports game, you're not trying to win, you're just
trying to have a good time. Well, you can have a good time,
but you know, you really should go in trying to win.
You know, I hoped it would fool them, but I didn't.
I didn't expect it to by any means.
(35:02):
It was great. They were so gracious.
You know, again, we talked aboutit with Lance Burton, but you
got to give Penn and Teller their flowers.
I mean, they certainly gain a lot from Fula, certainly in
every sense of that word. But it's a format that also
gives a lot back to magic because look at the careers it's
helped. Look at the magicians it was
able to showcase. I mean, they really are
(35:26):
improving the the public's fluency of magic.
I would say most people that seemagic through screens are seeing
some or most of it through Fool US's 58 seasons that they've had
up to this point. So that was a wonderful
experience. And you know that trick, I'm
very proud of that trick. And.
(35:47):
It definitely feels like nowadays magic is kind of having
a new renaissance because of Fool Us and of course other
shows like America's Got Talent and Britain's Got Talent.
How do you feel about now we're getting this new renaissance of
new magicians coming forward? It's, it's always exciting.
I mean, it's still a shift for me in my mind and not an easy
(36:10):
one always. I was so, so often the young
guy, the young guy, you know, I was booked on conventions as
like the representative of somebody under 40 or something.
And now I'm not the young guy anymore.
I'm the middle-aged guy. And there are all these other
wonderful middle-aged guys that are my friends around me.
(36:30):
And now there is a whole youngergeneration of really dynamic,
wonderful performers. And I'm here for all of it.
You know, it's, it's great. Not only are you a great
performer and lecturer and inventor, but you also have a
very big appreciation for magic history.
And I know that you also have a couple of interesting artifacts.
(36:54):
You have Houdini's straitjacket,you even have a Cardini's
gloves, which blew my mind. Why do you believe as a magician
it's very important to understand the history?
Oh, well, I mean that's self-evident, right?
I mean, part of part of my worldview in Magic is that in,
(37:16):
in an, in a climate where everyone is talking about
specializing, you know, find some really, really tiny niche.
I just feel like, why wouldn't you want to be the Renaissance
person in Magic? Why wouldn't you want to be able
to perform for children and on stage and up close?
I'm not saying you got to do it all or do it all for money, but
(37:38):
like at times of my life, I've done children's shows and huge
stage shows and halftime shows and I've done close up and more
walk around than I care to remember.
And you've got to try it all. I think each one helps the other
out. And part of that is
understanding the history of this wonderful craft.
(37:59):
I mean, it's, it's not work. It's not like I feel like I have
to be more well-rounded. It's fascinating.
It's utterly, utterly fascinating.
And the other wonderful thing about collecting, and I'm sad to
say it's changing. I used to say this emphatically.
I can't say it so strongly anymore is, you know, let's say
you and I were passionate about,you know, I don't know, guitar
(38:21):
music, playing guitar. We wouldn't be talking about how
I have a assigned Keith Richardsguitar and a John Lennon guitar
on my wall. That's not, that's, that's
museum stuff, right? But in Magic, museum quality
pieces are approachable. You can own this stuff.
And especially the newer stuff with magicians who are still
(38:42):
around half the time. It's just asking a colleague for
it. I'll never forget.
You know, one of my favorite moments in Magic is the 5
minutes that is the perfect act of Jan Frisch performing his
FISM act. And I was with him backstage at
a show. We were working together and
he's got all these red balls that he hands sews that he, he
does his act with. And I went, hey, can I have one
(39:04):
of those? And he goes, yeah, have this
one. Like, I treasure that object,
you know, like. And you know what?
I think he'd given that to anybody who asked, like, I don't
know. But, you know, that's not an
expensive object I bought at auction.
That was just like me walking upto a magician I really admired
and just went, can I have that? You know, I sometimes it's just
understanding the moment. Whenever you look at Houdini
(39:27):
straitjacket in your home, how do you feel knowing that you
have something physical that wasworn by, used by, and touched by
one of the most iconic magiciansof all time?
Oh yeah, a great, great honor. And that's what it is.
I mean, look, in this Marie Kondo era of minimalism and not
(39:50):
wanting to own anything and asking if anything brings you
joy. I am very comfortable saying I'm
a maximalist. I love stuff.
I love saving things. There's nothing that that
tickles me more than going through an old box and coming
upon something that I didn't remember having or buying or
collecting. And it's a wonderful feeling.
(40:12):
Owning those objects brings me real joy.
And you know, the the Houdini stuff is is very special.
I have a lot of. Friends who would not forgive me
if I didn't take this opportunity to bring up Game of
Thrones. Yes.
What do you want to know about the the sword illusions?
Yeah, if you could talk about how that happened.
(40:35):
And also, you've also done some collaborations, not just for
Game of Thrones, but other things like commercials and
promotional materials. What is your process in creating
magic that's not meant for you, but for other people to present,
as in Game of Thrones? Yeah, well, that one came about
in the era of 6 Impossible Things.
(40:58):
And it was the, I guess the, theproducers of the segment, they
came to the show and they said, hey, we want to do something
interesting to unveil. I think it was season 2 or 3 of
Game of Thrones and then more largely other HBO shows.
(41:20):
And, and it was the first time or one of the first times that
they were promoting that you could watch these things on a
tablet. You know, the iPad was new at
that time. And so they said, could you
create some illusions from the tablet through, through the
tablet for the shows? And one of the things they
wanted to do was to pull a swordout of the tablet and have a
(41:43):
catch fire. And it was wonderful.
So I, I went to this sound stageand we, I designed all these
illusions and we, we put them all together and it was some CGI
and some practical illusion stuff.
And it was really, really fun. And the whole time they were
like, you know, I'll change the name.
But they were like, well, our boss Rich would have to approve
(42:04):
that. Well, Rich has got to come in.
Well, Rich has got to do this. Rich has got to do that.
And like, who's this Rich guy? Well, you'll see he's coming on
Friday. And when Rich gets there on
Friday, I realize it's my neighbor in my New York
apartment. Like the guy who lives 16
million people live in New York City, and this is the guy who
lives on my floor 2 doors down from me.
(42:24):
It's a truly magical moment to to know that he was actually in
charge of the segment and didn'tknow that I was in on it.
And it was just great. Well, I'd be remissed if I
didn't bring up Vanishing Ink, and when I talked to Andy, he
mentioned that it it was originally started because the
two of you wanted to be able to market and package your magic
(42:46):
your way. Could you talk about what
Vanishing Ink has meant to you and Andy?
And just how do you feel knowingthat it's become one of the
biggest online magic stores thatnow magicians all over the world
flock to? Yeah, it's a, it's a huge honor
and, and a responsibility. And I think, I think we're
pretty sober in our view of, of the responsibilities that go
(43:09):
with it, but also the opportunities that it affords
us. And yeah, super grateful that
it's been embraced in this way. You know, I can honestly say
this and it again, you hate to speak in cliches, but when
they're true, how else can you speak?
Like we started it because we wanted to to create the magic
(43:30):
shop that we wished existed. And to that point, there was
really no magic shop on that scale run by performing
magicians. And we wanted to do things
differently. You know, there are things that
we can look back now and, and not really say are innovative,
but at the time they were reallyinnovative.
Like we are almost always pair our the books we release with
(43:53):
video, you know, and that was an, an innovation at the time.
We have a full marketing department, like people who do
nothing but market our magic. We have a full customer service
team that just didn't really exist 15 years ago in the, in
the way that it does now. I mean, the idea that you can
write US 24 hours a day and ask about your package or ask for
(44:16):
some help or ask if something's really that good as it looks,
you know, that's a, that's a kind of new advent to the, to
the landscape. And you know, we're proud of
that. I think that my favorite part of
Vanishing Ink, I, I love so manyparts.
Of course I love the books. That's always close to my heart
'cause I'm such a magic book junkie myself.
(44:38):
But I think my favorite part of the events, we do 4 events a
year. We do Magic Fest in the session
2 conventions in January, both of them in London and Columbus,
OH. But we also do retreats, and
this was an idea that I originally had based on yoga
retreats. Girlfriend at the time was like,
hey, let's go on a yoga retreat in Thailand.
(44:59):
I was like, what's that? And she said, well, you sightsee
and, you know, you explore Thailand, but then in the
evenings you do yoga. And I was like, that sounds
great, except for the yoga part.And I thought, man, that would
be so cool if we could do magic where you sightseeing, go on
luxurious adventure, travel. And then in the evenings when
(45:19):
you're not sightseeing, you talk, walk, breathe magic.
And so that's what we've done. So we're just getting ready to
go to Mexico City, and then Greece will be the next one.
And we've just in Japan for one.And so yeah, they, they go all
over the place and it's really, really sucks.
Well, congratulations are definitely in order, because
(45:42):
thanks to Vanishing Ink, you andAndy were recently awarded the
Literary Achievement Award by the Academy of Magical Arts.
Yeah, that was such an unexpected, sweet, sweet
situation. I I'm in awe of that.
Clearly there is definitely a lot of love for Vanishing Ink.
And I say that because one thingAndy and I also talked about
(46:04):
when I spoke with him is, of course, what made really big
news was the fire that happened at your Los Angeles warehouse.
And there was this huge outpouring of love and support
and magicians just wanted to give, you know, anything to
help, any money to help you guysget back on your feet.
How was it for you to feel this huge outpouring of love from the
(46:26):
entire Magic community? Oh, just unbelievable.
Really, really special. You know, I can't put it into
words. I mean, people were just just
that we had so many people ask if we needed hands on the ground
that they could just fly in and sweep up or or you know, start
(46:48):
cataloging damage. Like just unbeliev.
Can you imagine that? Total strangers offering that.
I can't even imagine. Yeah, it's just wonderful.
You know, with all of these great achievements that you've
been able to have, your TV appearances, stage shows and
travel shows all over the world,and all of these great things
you've been able to accomplish. I'm curious, Joshua, how do you
(47:08):
manage to keep yourself humble in the midst of having all of
this success and all of these awards?
Well, you're assuming I'm humble, my friend.
We don't know each other that well.
You know, I, I, I don't know. I mean, that's a tough question
to answer. It's kind of a, a loaded
question because I don't know ifI am humble.
(47:30):
I hope I am. I try to be.
I work at it. You know what?
I think very carefully about theword ego because I think most
people get it totally wrong. They'll say the so and so has an
ego. So and so has an ego.
Guess what? News flash, we all have egos.
An ego is a an absolutely essential part of having any
(47:55):
personality whatsoever. A more, I think accurate thing
would be to say someone has a large ego or a small ego or an
outsized ego or, you know, use those sorts of terms.
But look, stepping on stage and performing magic in any way,
shape or form, there is an element of ego in it.
(48:17):
There just is. There is an element of ego in
saying to yourself, what I have to share is worth sharing and
that I'm good, right? You you need that's at a
minimum. I mean, Can you imagine from
there the mindset goes crazy with some performers.
I'm the best there ever was. But you need some form of ego
(48:40):
and and also ego is a great asset if it's controlled.
I mean, to say to yourself, which is what we all say when
we're pushing the envelope, to say to yourself, I don't like
cups and balls. The way it's taught and the way
I've seen everybody else do it. I think I can do better.
I mean, that is a wonderfully healthy, ego driven way to try
(49:04):
and push the envelope to new heights.
And it's what every single one of us say whenever we're
innovating, right is I don't like the way something is.
I don't like the way it looks when these other people do it.
I can do better. That is a form of ego.
And so, you know, I try, of course, I strive to, to keep
myself in check and learn from, from ways that maybe I'm not as
(49:26):
humble as I should be in their humbling experiences and
failures, but I always try to give myself a little bit of a
pass that like ego called another thing is bravery.
It's the, it's the ability to look at yourself and go, I can
do this. I can succeed where others have
failed or I've failed before. And, you know, I think that's
(49:50):
what drives us to success sometimes.
How do you feel about the fact that you've also had the
opportunity to collaborate with a lot of big names and magic,
many of whom I'm assuming are also your heroes?
How does that feel, to know thatyou're able to stand shoulder to
shoulder with some of today's greats?
Yeah, I mean, that's just another perk of of being in an
(50:11):
industry that is tiny. I mean, how wonderful it is
that, you know, if you work hardin this craft, you're just, you
are going to come face to face with David Blaine and David
Copperfield and Derren Brown. And you can't not, I mean, it,
it's, it's inevitable on your path that you would come face to
face with those guys. And the fact that they're all
(50:33):
accessible is so wonderful and agreat credit to them.
It's, it's, it's a gift magic. Is this this great gift?
I'm so glad that it's not baseball or music or, or
something else that it's this perfect size that we can all be
this this tight knit community and, and, you know, sharing
(50:57):
these experiences as we hopefully push things further
and leave it a little better than then we found it.
Well, Joshua, here's my last question to you, my friend.
What's the one piece of advice that has served you well that
you'd want everyone else to hear?
No, Yeah, that's a great question.
(51:21):
You know, I, I, I will definitely answer your question
in the spirit you're asking in in general terms.
I'm not somebody who who thinks that we're one tweet or one rule
or one piece of advice away from, you know, any kind of
meaningful improvement. I think that like there are
(51:42):
really no shortcuts to, to this,this game that we all play.
But let me think. I mean the thing that when I,
when I speak to young magicians that I always say is passion
drives everything else. You know, the, the hard truth is
when I teach magic in a lecture or youth conference or
(52:03):
something, there's such a wide variety of skill levels.
And sadly, there's such a wide variety of aptitude.
It just comes easy to some people and it comes very hard to
other people. There's some people that after
six months, their sleight of hand is so smooth and so spot
on. And other people who have been
at it for 20 years and not for lack of trying, but it just
(52:27):
looks inelegant and rough and like an uphill struggle, right?
Aptitude is something we don't control.
Some people can get in front of a group and sound as natural as
I'm talking now just to you. And some people, no matter how
many decades they've been at it,they sound like a robot on
stage. We just don't control the raw
(52:47):
materials and the aptitude. The only thing we can control is
the passion. And if the passion is there, if
you get up and can't not do magic, you know, coming back to
what we talked about earlier, ifit's an impulse for you, if it's
a, a passion, something you can't live without, the rest
takes care of itself. All those skills fall into
(53:08):
place. The people who struggled in the
beginning, when they have the passion, they find a way to
breakthrough it and, and get thehelp they need and, and get
those skills sharpened. And it, it just, it drives
everything else. It makes you want to go further.
It means that you never have to practice when it's not fun
because the whole thing is fun for you.
(53:29):
Passion drives everything else. And I try and tell people like,
look, it doesn't make you evil if you're not super passionate
about magic. Something that you found
fascinating as eight years old does not mean it's still
fascinating for you at 17 or 40 or 70.
Like things change, but when youdon't have the spark and the
passion anymore, that's trouble.Absolutely amazing.
(53:53):
Well, Joshua, this has been an absolutely fantastic time and I
cannot thank you enough for joining me today and I wish you
all the best in your life and your career, my friend.
Thank you very much. This is great that you're doing
this, and I'm honored that you asked me to be part of it.
Passion drives everything. Whatever it is you're doing,
(54:15):
never lose that passion. It makes what you're doing even
more important. A very big thank you to Joshua J
for speaking to me today. He's truly an amazing man and if
you get a chance to see him in action, definitely take that
chance. His show is 1 you won't want to
miss. It's always a pleasure to share
(54:36):
this time with you, my friends. I'm LD Madera wishing you all
lots of love today and remind you that you are who you are and
you are special. Don't forget to rate and review
and be sure to check out my website, ldmadera.com.
See you later on the next episode of Improv and Magic.
Hello friends. Hello everybody.
I'm LD Madera and you are listening to the Improv and
Magic Podcast, the only podcast that celebrates improvisers and
magicians. My friends, what a show we have
(00:22):
today. I am thrilled to have as my
guest one of the biggest names in Magic today, Joshua J.
Yes, the Joshua J worldwide performer, author and Co founder
of Vanishing Inc. I learned so much from this
conversation and I hope you willtoo.
So wherever you are, get comfy and enjoy my conversation with
(00:48):
Joshua J. My friends, I am incredibly
honored to welcome here on Improv and Magic.
He's a magician like no other. He's the one and only.
Joshua J. Hey, Joshua, so good to have you
(01:11):
here. It's such a pleasure to be here.
Thanks for making the time. You know, you are talking to me
with a very enthusiastic attitude and you sound very
pleasant and energized, but I can't help but wonder, how are
you just not completely exhausted right now?
Because you are constantly traveling from one city, from
one country to the next, shows and lectures?
(01:33):
How do you manage to keep yourself energized and going?
You know, I mean, I guess the 2 answers to that question are I
am exhausted. I'm always exhausted.
But also I work very hard and I relax very hard.
So what happens is I know if there's a period, like I'm kind
(01:56):
of in a rest period now, even though I am leaving tomorrow for
a small show thing, I don't leave until the 30th of this
month. So I have like another 10 days
or so before I have to really gear up.
But I realized when that 10 daysis up, I will be on the go for
45 days without a day off. I'm doing a long month long run
(02:18):
in Chicago. We've got the retreat in Mexico.
I've got 3 private shows in between all those other things
in different countries. So what I do is I just psyched
myself into it and I know it's coming.
So I I rest hard and then I workhard and I guess that's that's
the secret. Was it tough for you to adjust
in the beginning of having to doso much traveling?
(02:40):
No, quite the opposite. I I didn't travel.
My family didn't travel a ton asa kid, certainly not
internationally. And I was so curious about the
world. I wanted to see all the amazing
places. So in the beginning I realized
that magic could be a great doorway to see those places.
(03:01):
So I would say to you from the for the 1st 10 years of my
career, I was motivated to get to everywhere I could,
regardless of if there was a feeor if it would I'd break even or
if not and I would just wanted to get everywhere.
And to a degree, I've just neverslowed down.
I'm still so up for an adventure.
(03:22):
I mean, I just took an international show for, for very
low money at the expense of a much better situation here in
the States because I just never been to where that show is and I
I wanted to see it. So this is happening all the
time. I love that the adventure never
(03:43):
ends. Oh, no.
I mean, look, I look at my colleagues who don't explore the
world around them as the weird ones, even though I'm the weird
one. I mean, it's so crazy to me that
like, let's say, OK, you're going to do a convention.
I did last year in Bulgaria, like what an amazing country
filled with interesting things to see.
And of all the other international performers, not a
(04:05):
single one came early or stayed late to see it.
They were like, well, it's just a gig.
I'm just going to fly in, do theshow.
And like, how can you leave a place like Bulgaria without
looking around? You know, Italy, we just all got
back from FISM, you know, I got there early, I stayed late.
I wanted to see, you know, Torino, which I've been to
(04:26):
before, and, and other places, and so many people, they fly in,
they fly out. They got tunnel vision for
magic. And that's just very odd to me.
But not everybody likes adventures.
So you definitely have the ability to stop and smell the
roses, so to speak. You have to.
I mean, I couldn't do what I do if I didn't enjoy, you know,
(04:49):
getting to see the world that magic opens up for you.
Well, I'm excited to learn more about you, Joshua.
So where did you grow up and what was growing up like for
you? I had a great childhood.
I grew up in Canton, OH, great parents, divorced parents.
So I split my time evenly between mom's house and dad's
(05:09):
house. Both remarried, you know, sadly
all parents and my, my mom, my mom is alive, but my dad passed
away, stepdad just passed away recently.
So that's kind of this the bittersweet ending to that.
But let me see. I grew up in Akron, OH, loved
(05:31):
growing up a little bit isolated.
I had a great magic club in town.
I would see every lecture and show that that came through
northeastern Ohio. But for the most part, I didn't
learn from a teacher. I learned by creating my own.
At first terrible and then hopefully later on less terrible
tricks. I was isolated.
(05:51):
I'm an only child, so I stayed in my room a lot and read every
magic book cover to cover, backwards and forwards.
Tried every trick in it and slowly started to come up with
my own stuff. And I learned pretty early on
that creating my own material was what really scratched the
itch for me. That to me was the was the
(06:14):
height of artistic magic. And the people I looked up to
were so clever above everything else in magic that they could
come up with those things. And I wanted to be those people
and I wanted to emulate those people.
I myself and am also an only child and I've had the
opportunity to speak to other guests here who are also only
(06:35):
children. And we've talked about the whole
concept of when you're an only child, you kind of end up
creating your own world, which is usually in your own bedroom.
Does that sound like something similar to what you went
through? Completely, completely.
And I was an only child of divorced parents where I would
go back and forth and I was the only one in in each house that
(06:58):
was a kid. And so, yeah, makes complete
sense. And you know when you have to
completely occupy your own time?And I just wasn't a kid who
played with neighborhood kids very much.
So when you're completely occupying your own time, you
have to learn how to entertain yourself.
And magic is a dream for entertaining yourself.
(07:20):
So, you know, you turn you turn a negative into a positive and
and magic becomes this all engrossing thing that you can't
get enough of. Well, what was it that got you
interested in magic? So my father was, was a dentist
by trade, but he loved magic andwe did it together.
(07:43):
We went to a local magic club and you know, we tried other
things. We tried Boy Scouts and I did
T-ball and I, I did sports as a kid.
But when I saw him do a magic trick, when he taught me my
first magic trick, something clicked.
It just it was just fascinating to me.
I mean truly sounds corny and trite to say it, but it was as
(08:04):
fascinating to me then as it is now.
I'm just engrossed by magic. I think it's so wonderful.
You know, I just went and saw a a show here in Vegas, a non
magic variety review show with acrobatics and comedy and it was
really good. It was really good show.
But I just thought to myself thewhole time, as great as this is,
(08:27):
who knows if it's because I've thought it lived and breathed
magic the, you know, the last 30years of my life.
But I would just so much be watching, rather be watching
magic than anything else. And, you know, I know people
feel that way about musicals. People feel that way about
basketball. But for me, Magic really is my
(08:49):
calling, you know, it's a passion.
It's, it's even more than a passion.
It's like an impulse. Do you know what I mean?
Like, I can't not do it. If I should for some weird
reason go a whole day without a deck of cards in my hand to to
drill something or work on something, I feel weird.
There are a lot of people who, like you, get into magic when
(09:10):
they're very young. There's also some people who
kind of get into it later. Do you think had you gotten into
it later, like maybe in your teens or as an adult, you would
still have the same love for magic then as you do now?
I mean, I do, yeah. I, I absolutely do.
I mean, you know, I hear magicians say sometimes I'm
suffering burnout. I have burnout.
I have burnout. I don't think I've ever had
(09:32):
burnout, not even, I mean there have been there have been months
where I haven't had so much as aday off when I was doing 6
impossible things. I was doing Wednesday to Sunday,
2 shows a night and matinee is included on the weekends.
And then that Monday, Tuesday, Iwas always doing private stuff
(09:53):
that I would get from those. So it was seven days a week and
there were TV appearances and many other things.
And even when it was that hectic, or when I go on a three
month lecture tour where you're lecturing every night, never
once did I feel like it's too much.
I'm sick of this. I would feel of course, like I'm
(10:14):
tired. I could use a break.
But I mean, it's always funny tome that I get home from these
big sweeping tours and the firstthing I do is start working on
new stuff. That's just like, that's my
impulse. I get very sick sometimes of the
business side of it or the people within magic, but never
magic itself. It's like this perfect thing
(10:34):
that never I never tired of. Many of us who at a young age
decide to get into magic have that all too familiar talk with
their parents where you tell them I want to be a magician and
they say you need a real job. Did you ever go through anything
similar with your parents? No, not at all.
I can I can say that they were very supportive.
I mean, my father had a very different sort of life situation
(11:00):
in that his parents died very young.
So he felt very compelled to getout of school and start earning
money and do the thing that everybody else does that have a
family young and, and just get started on it.
And because of that, like, I don't think he loved what he
did. And you know, it's very hard.
It's let's say 40 years old to just sort of go, I want to make
(11:23):
a career change. So he did it, he did it very
well and he did it with a smile on his face, but he really
stressed to a large degree. Find something you really love
and make a living from that. And I think that can only
usually come from a place of someone who maybe didn't take
(11:43):
that advice themselves. And so it was always in my home
for my mom and my dad, a question of like, find something
you love and you'll find a way to make it work somehow.
And I was very lucky because I won some awards at a young age.
I, I published a book very young, probably too young.
And I had enough, let's call it momentum to start traveling the
(12:09):
world and make a little name within the magic community.
And that made it easier to stageshows and and start my
professional work. Last season I had the
opportunity to speak with your best friend Andy Gladwin, and he
gave me this great visual about the first time the two of you
met, which was on Lance Burton shows and the both of you were
(12:30):
wearing brightly colored suits. Do you do you remember that time
where you first met Andy? Oh, of course I do.
Yeah. You don't forget a monumental
moment like that in your life. I mean, we didn't know it then,
but you know the the crazy thingabout there, there are many
crazy things surrounding that Lance Burden special.
(12:50):
So let me take you through it. Like people have to remember
that at that moment, Lance was the guy.
I mean, Copperfield was always the guy.
I think this is pre David Blaine.
But you know, Lance was Mr. Vegas, but he had television
specials and they were a big deal.
And so we should never forget that in the height of Lance's
(13:12):
fame, he chose to spotlight and help young magicians.
He ran a young magicians like mini convention at what was
called the Desert Magic Seminar and he used to put young
magicians in his television special.
Nobody since has done that to that degree.
So we all owe Lance a debt of gratitude for putting others
(13:34):
before himself. That's a really big.
Deal. And I believe he's still doing
that. He's still providing a lot of
support for young magicians, isn't?
He. I believe so, yeah.
I think that they just handed over the reins after many years
for the IBM. He was running his conference.
So now somebody else is taking it over.
But yeah, no, he's, he's a greatchampion of young magicians.
(13:54):
And what's weird was I was just ramping up my, I was only 17,
but I was already starting to travel for magic and I ran into
Lance Burton in an airport. I mean, that is like the chances
of that happening. I run into people at airports
because I'm always at airports, but it's so rare.
And to see Lance Burton randomlyat an airport and have him look
(14:15):
at me, me and go, oh, Josh, we just sent you a letter.
I mean, this is how long it was.They were, they told me by snail
mail that my submission had been, you know, accepted.
And he goes, we just sent you a letter.
You're going to be on my next television special.
What? So that was a great moment.
And yes, there were a lot of wonderful young magicians that I
(14:35):
met for the first time there. And that included Andy Gladwin,
who, you know, was from the UK and did an extremely cute and
awesomely terrible, I think it was an arrow basket illusion.
And we stayed in touch from there.
And, you know, years and years later, we stayed in touch
online. I was lecturing in the UK and I
(14:57):
met up with Andy, who at that time had a job in the corporate
sphere, in the tech sphere. And I said, can we get together?
Can we hang out? Can I stay with you?
And we sort of burst the idea ofa partnership in Vanishing Ink.
And the rest is history. Do you still have that suit by
the way? You know, I think I do somewhere
(15:17):
somehow, and it probably almost fits me now.
You know, the 90s were a time for big, bulky, overgrown suits.
So that's. It yes, they were.
So you know, talk about all the awards that you've received.
One that I'm particularly interested in is in January 2016
you received a Guinness World. Record.
(15:40):
And it was for being able to find 21 cards in one minute.
How was that? Experience for you.
Well, I thought you were going to ask about my Merlin Award.
Thinking of prestigious awards? That's on the list.
Don't. Worry, OK, I'm just kidding you.
Yeah. I mean, so that's, I mean, I'm
happy to talk frankly about that.
(16:01):
That that was entirely you know,it's so rare when things work
out in the plan, you orchestrateand I knew that what I wanted
out of that was two things I wanted to say I want a Guinness
World Record because I think that that's the rare accolade
that inspires curiosity. Now, if you just are introduced
(16:25):
and it's like Joshua J has been on The Tonight Show, he's done
this, he's won this, he's performed here.
He sold this out, he sold that. That's like an OK, nice little
brags, right? Little ways of of showing your
your credibility to an audience,but holds a Guinness World
Record for card tricks. Anytime anybody hears that in
(16:46):
the bio or something, they always ask about it.
And I knew that that's, I mean, that's exactly what you want.
You want people curious about the things you do.
And I wanted to create a closer of my show.
And I knew even then what the ingredients were going to be.
I wanted to do a beat the clock scenario.
That is such a great way to add drama.
(17:07):
You know, for those of us who don't do illusions where we're
going to escape from ropes that are on fire with daggers beneath
us. If you don't do that kind of
escape type stuff, you have to find other ways to increase the
drama. And one of the greatest ways
I've found is a beat the clock scenario where you're racing
against time. And then on top of that, if you
(17:31):
can add in like a showpiece that's unique to you, you know,
a sort of signature piece for anending where you can tell a
story, all the better. And I had just been through this
injury with my hand. And so I set out to create a
Guinness World Record trick. And my plan all along, I knew
that I needed to like find so many cards to set the record.
(17:54):
I forget it was initially, but Ithink it was 20 some cards that
I had to do, which 20 some cardsin 60 seconds is so
unentertaining. You are just basically pushing
cards out of a deck. That's all you can do.
However, I thought correctly, I think once I set the record, I
(18:15):
can make up any routine for it that I want.
So the routine to this day that ends my show is not 26 cards.
I say it's the world record routine.
I say that I'm the Guinness World Record holder.
All that's true, but then the routine that I do is a very
breezy 10 cards, which feels great.
(18:36):
It still feels, by the way, really rushed.
There's a beat the buzzer ending.
But I've done this at a halftimeshow for the Milwaukee Bucks in
front of 20,000 people. I've done this, you know, on
stage at Carnegie Hall and the Kennedy Center.
I mean, I've done this everywhere and it plays big, it
plays intimate. It's, it's just, it does
(18:57):
everything I wanted in a closer and I knew that I hoped that
that would happen and that's whyI set out to do that one.
You briefly mentioned your hand injury and I did hear the story
about that. And I feel like going through
that experience where you're notsure if you're going to be able
to move your hand or not and whether or not you have to start
(19:17):
doing magic one handed. I think that's a very
interesting part of your story because I think it speaks to
your determination and your perseverance.
Is that something that is kind of a big part of who you are,
being able to persevere no matter what?
Well, it's very kind of you to say.
I mean, you know, it's interesting.
(19:38):
The narratives in your life really only come into focus when
they're over and it becomes about how you frame them.
I mean, I look back, it's like part of my own ancient history
now that I went through this. I play sports.
I lift weights, I can go about my life on my my hand is not a
handicap in any way, thank God. But I can tell you going through
(20:00):
it, you're not sitting there going like, well, I'll use this
in my ACT. I'll talk about this.
This is a defining moment for me.
You're sitting there stressed ashell, thinking I may not use my
hand again. And you know the part that even
I forget sometimes is like. There's nobody on the front end
(20:22):
of these types of injuries. At least there wasn't for me
telling me it's all going to be fine.
You know, from the moment I had this injury, for those who don't
know, I was water skiing and collided with a a metal buoy at
55 miles an hour and I had threesurgeries.
On my left hand. I had a plate, 5 screws, 2 pins
put in. I basically spent six months on
(20:42):
my back. I was all banged up, was very
serious injury. You know, the first thing I
wanted to know was like, I don'tcare what it takes.
I don't care how many surgeries.I don't care how long the
therapy is. Just tell me I'm going to be
able to use my hand again. And you know, these surgeons,
they really don't know. And they're like, I can't tell
you that. I can't tell you that at all.
(21:04):
We're going to have to see how the first one goes and then
what's left for the second one. OK, OK, fine.
But tell me this, the feeling will come back, right?
I will have feeling in my fingertips.
No, some do and some don't. It's going to be a touch and go.
I don't think it'll be the same,I can tell you that.
But what does that mean? It's not going to be the same.
You know, the uncertainty overtakes you.
(21:25):
And then of course, these surgeries, you have to
recuperate from 1:00 and then you have the next one.
You get multiple opinions. And these are really, really
rare procedures that were done on my wrist that, you know, the
specialists and they're moving nerves around and they're,
they're basically reconstructingmy wrist across several
(21:45):
operations. And like the whole time you're
waiting around. Yeah, I can remember thinking to
myself, I'm going to have to learn to do things like tie my
shoe with one hand or eat with the other hand because I was
left-handed. I'm going to have to learn to
like put on a shirt and button my buttons with one hand, like
to, to bathe myself. I, I just, I was preparing like
(22:08):
I wasn't going to have much use of my left hand ever again.
And then, you know, the great miracle is it all came back.
And what's funny is after the surgery, they were very
confident that I could get mobility back, but they were not
confident that I'd get feeling back.
And my God, like to hold a deck of cards and dealing grip in
your left hand and not be able to feel, you know, your ring and
(22:32):
little fingers. It's just, you know, it's the
worst thing in the world. I was coming up with all these
alternatives of other things andyou know, it eventually came
back. The one other thing I would tell
you, you know, Speaking of turning negatives and the
positives, is during that periodwhen I thought I was only going
(22:53):
to be able to use one hand, I really took it seriously and I
started to create magic for the first time.
If you look at my work, my work before that was pure sleight of
hand. I really didn't use a lot of
gimmicks, but I switched at thatpoint, favoring a lot of
subtlety, a lot of clever technique, a lot of, you know,
different principles that didn'trely on manual dexterity for the
(23:17):
reason that I thought I wouldn'tbe able to do it anymore.
And that, you know, learning to develop those mental muscles
and, and sort of develop my toolbox into a more well-rounded
way really helped a ton. What I love about watching you
perform, and even now as I hear you talk, there definitely is a
(23:38):
great emphasis on storytelling in your act.
For you, how important is creating a story in magic?
Oh, well, I mean, you know, thisis something that I've become
very passionate about. I think Magic is a wonderful way
to communicate story, and somewhere along the lines I feel
like people started to look to me as some kind of a guru in
(24:01):
this area. It's not the case at all.
I don't view myself that way. You know, I have a very sort of
muted relationship to stories and Magic.
I tell some, if you know of my work, you know that in Trojan
Deck I tell the story of how my parents met, which is a true
story. SO22 decks are shuffled.
(24:23):
I shuffle 1A participant shuffles 1, and as they shuffle,
I tell the story of how my parents met.
And there's another trick calledOut of Sight, which is another
true story about doing magic fora blind person.
It's what would look like if youdid magic that you didn't have
to see, magic that you could feel.
And I've told stories about my hand injury.
(24:44):
I have a trick called Balance that tells the story of doing
magic for people in prisons. So I feel like magicians have
this idea that I'm the storytelling guy.
Nothing really could be further from the truth.
I mean, for all the tricks I have with stories, I have 10
times more that have no narrative line going in them.
(25:08):
And I feel quite strongly that when you tell stories with
magic, the stories have to servethe magic.
If they detract or don't add, they have to come out.
And the most important one, that's the hardest one to nail
is, you know, you never want to use specifics in magic because
as soon as you make a rule, somebody will show you how they
can break it, which is great. But I really offer the advice.
(25:32):
As a rule, you get about 3:00 to4:00 sentences.
That's about how long you get before you have to do something
or have some kind of magic effect.
When you go longer than 3 or 4 sentences, you know 5 or 6
sentences at the Max. Your story is almost certainly
going to start to detract. People who are regular listeners
(25:53):
of this podcast will know that I'm very fond of asking this
question, especially to magicians.
There are magicians who, when they perform, they are 100%
authentically themselves. And then there are other
magicians who decide they're going to portray someone
completely different from themselves.
And then there are some who kindof meet in the middle somewhere.
(26:14):
When you perform, how much of Joshua J do we really see?
Yeah, You know, it's a great question.
Guys have spoken on this before and it's a fascinating
conversation. Your observation is exactly
right. There are success stories on all
sides of it. I would say to you that I am
constantly striving to be the best and most theatrical version
(26:38):
of myself on stage. I want to be honest.
I want to be authentic. But you know how it is
authentic. You is like today, it's like
Wednesday afternoon, me in my house alone doing a bunch of
work and writing and reading andgetting stuff done that's not
really interesting on a stage. You know, you want to put the
(26:58):
most interesting version of yourself, the part that would
fascinate people and the part that you know, the parts that
hopefully would interest them. And you get to spend so little
time with your audiences. You're, you're obliged to to
show them a good time and, and be as interesting as possible.
I've never had any desire to be somebody else or make up stories
(27:22):
about myself or, or play a character.
I don't begrudge anybody else. I just saw Lucy Darling's show
here in Vegas and she plays a character that couldn't be
further from Carissa Hendricks. And it was marvelous.
And so, you know, it's just isn't it wonderful that we we
come in a craft that there is noone prescriptive way to be to be
(27:45):
successful, so to speak? Yeah, it's like the old Eugene
Berger quote. The House of Magic has many
rooms. Yeah.
So you are always constantly notjust performing, but inventing
magic and inventing methods. At what point do you feel like
this trick is done and it's ready for an audience?
(28:05):
Yeah, that's, that's really hardto know.
I can tell you that the process for me as I do it more and more
is I actually try and put it in front of an audience earlier
because what I'm learning is guesswork.
Even as you get better, only gets you so far.
(28:27):
And I can guess and guess and guess and guess and guess.
But you know, whether I spend 3 or 4 hours on an idea or 100
hours on an idea, and I've done both, you really don't know
anything until you put it in front of an audience.
And there will always be blind spots.
Like wow, I was so worried aboutthe force and the force flew by
(28:48):
no problem. But I was so sure this ending
would crush. And the ending's the worst part,
you know, there is just, it never goes exactly to plan, at
least not for me. So anymore I'm like really eager
to put it in front of an audience because I I just want
to figure out the weak spots andstart improving on those.
(29:12):
After you've finished creating apiece for your show, are you
able to be satisfied where it is?
Or are you the type that will say, you know what, I bet I
could change something else. Do you like to continue to
tinker away at pieces that you've invented?
Yeah. I mean, this is a great question
you've asked and, you know, it'sa softball question.
(29:32):
So, you know, you're giving me alayup to say what I should say,
which is, look, we are gardeners.
You never stop improving. You can always try and improve a
trick. But I also know very few
magicians who, through their actions, not their words, would
say contrary to that. And that, you know, I'm as
(29:53):
guilty as anybody else. When a trick starts really
working and feeling great, you don't change much about it.
And there are tricks in my show that haven't changed so much as
a word in years because they're doing what I feel they need to
be doing. And I've put every second under
a microscope and it seems like it's working pretty well now.
(30:15):
The perfectionist in me, if I really sit and think about it,
yeah, I'd like to change that. I'd like to brush this up.
I wish I could build this a little differently and it looked
a little better. Whatever it is, we shouldn't
ever stop working. But that's just not, that's
probably not the honest answer that that that we should be more
(30:36):
honest about, I guess. You've also had many television
appearances. Have you found that there were
times where you kind of had to adjust your performance because
you're moving from a live audience to the TV camera?
Yeah, almost all the time. The only, you know, I will say
this and, and I'm really grateful to Gabe Blackstone and
(30:57):
and Masters of Illusion. That's the only TV show where
they let me do exactly what I want, the way I want it.
And a lot of people pick on thatshow because you know it by the
very nature of it. They film like whatever it is,
20 some episodes in four days. They get a ton of talented
(31:18):
performers in. You have very limited time with
all the cameras and all the crew.
And so, you know, it's a, it's abit of a, a factory you're in,
you do your thing, you get out. If something messes up, you do
another take, you get in, you get out.
And then the audience is, you know, studio audience.
And it's just, it's not, it's not a David Blaine special in
(31:40):
how it's produced, let's say it that way.
But what I hope people would consider hand in hand with it is
they give the performers a lot of latitude, which I appreciate.
You know, when I've done Fallon and Cordon and the Today show
and some of these really big high profile things, we
magicians, we are there in the worst spot to fill in probably
(32:06):
for a celebrity who cancelled. Our time is variable depending
on how long the monologue went or or what's leftover.
We have no control over things that comes with star power.
I mean, I'm sure when David Blaine goes on The Tonight Show
he gets editing rights, but I certainly didn't.
So you have to be great and you have to be great when the deck
(32:29):
is stacked so far against you and it's really hard.
It's really, really hard. I mean, 6 Impossible Things kind
of was a moment for me where allof a sudden they, these
producers were coming to me asking me to be on these shows.
And that was such an honor. It was also such a stress that I
(32:49):
do not miss those moments. You know, they were, I didn't
sleep for weeks leading up to some of those big TV appearances
because you know, they're live and you don't get a retake and
you're doing material where the host might try and throw you
under a bus to to be funny and you have to live with the
(33:12):
result. So.
Whether it's live or on television, the audience, of
course, is always The X Factor because you never really know
what you're going to get. How do you manage to kind of
keep yourself prepared and be ready for what different types
of audiences bring you? I mean experience, you just, you
(33:34):
can't, you can't, you know, experience is, is the only
teacher in that regard. And that's why these days, you
know, I don't view a trick, especially a new piece, as
anything until it's gone through50 or or 100 performances, then
I start to understand what's happening with it.
We've talked briefly about a lotof the awards that you've won
(33:57):
over the years. If there was one award that I
would definitely put on my mantle, it would be the Foolish
Trophy. I remember watching you on Penn
and Teller Fool us, and that's where you told the story of
sharing a magic trick with a little blind girl.
And then of course, I held my breath, as I'm sure you did, as
Teller walked up to you with hisnotebook.
(34:20):
How was that experience for you to do Fool Us and to get a Fool
Us trophy? Truly wonderful, wonderful from
start to finish, you know, totally unexpected.
I, I hoped I would fool them. I mean, everybody who talks
about going in saying like, well, you're not trying to fool
them. You're, you're just trying to
(34:41):
get good footage. Well, you know, let's, let's be
reasonable here. You are trying.
I think you should go into, it'slike saying, you know, you go
into a sports game, you're not trying to win, you're just
trying to have a good time. Well, you can have a good time,
but you know, you really should go in trying to win.
You know, I hoped it would fool them, but I didn't.
I didn't expect it to by any means.
(35:02):
It was great. They were so gracious.
You know, again, we talked aboutit with Lance Burton, but you
got to give Penn and Teller their flowers.
I mean, they certainly gain a lot from Fula, certainly in
every sense of that word. But it's a format that also
gives a lot back to magic because look at the careers it's
helped. Look at the magicians it was
able to showcase. I mean, they really are
(35:26):
improving the the public's fluency of magic.
I would say most people that seemagic through screens are seeing
some or most of it through Fool US's 58 seasons that they've had
up to this point. So that was a wonderful
experience. And you know that trick, I'm
very proud of that trick. And.
(35:47):
It definitely feels like nowadays magic is kind of having
a new renaissance because of Fool Us and of course other
shows like America's Got Talent and Britain's Got Talent.
How do you feel about now we're getting this new renaissance of
new magicians coming forward? It's, it's always exciting.
I mean, it's still a shift for me in my mind and not an easy
(36:10):
one always. I was so, so often the young
guy, the young guy, you know, I was booked on conventions as
like the representative of somebody under 40 or something.
And now I'm not the young guy anymore.
I'm the middle-aged guy. And there are all these other
wonderful middle-aged guys that are my friends around me.
(36:30):
And now there is a whole youngergeneration of really dynamic,
wonderful performers. And I'm here for all of it.
You know, it's, it's great. Not only are you a great
performer and lecturer and inventor, but you also have a
very big appreciation for magic history.
And I know that you also have a couple of interesting artifacts.
(36:54):
You have Houdini's straitjacket,you even have a Cardini's
gloves, which blew my mind. Why do you believe as a magician
it's very important to understand the history?
Oh, well, I mean that's self-evident, right?
I mean, part of part of my worldview in Magic is that in,
(37:16):
in an, in a climate where everyone is talking about
specializing, you know, find some really, really tiny niche.
I just feel like, why wouldn't you want to be the Renaissance
person in Magic? Why wouldn't you want to be able
to perform for children and on stage and up close?
I'm not saying you got to do it all or do it all for money, but
(37:38):
like at times of my life, I've done children's shows and huge
stage shows and halftime shows and I've done close up and more
walk around than I care to remember.
And you've got to try it all. I think each one helps the other
out. And part of that is
understanding the history of this wonderful craft.
(37:59):
I mean, it's, it's not work. It's not like I feel like I have
to be more well-rounded. It's fascinating.
It's utterly, utterly fascinating.
And the other wonderful thing about collecting, and I'm sad to
say it's changing. I used to say this emphatically.
I can't say it so strongly anymore is, you know, let's say
you and I were passionate about,you know, I don't know, guitar
(38:21):
music, playing guitar. We wouldn't be talking about how
I have a assigned Keith Richardsguitar and a John Lennon guitar
on my wall. That's not, that's, that's
museum stuff, right? But in Magic, museum quality
pieces are approachable. You can own this stuff.
And especially the newer stuff with magicians who are still
(38:42):
around half the time. It's just asking a colleague for
it. I'll never forget.
You know, one of my favorite moments in Magic is the 5
minutes that is the perfect act of Jan Frisch performing his
FISM act. And I was with him backstage at
a show. We were working together and
he's got all these red balls that he hands sews that he, he
does his act with. And I went, hey, can I have one
(39:04):
of those? And he goes, yeah, have this
one. Like, I treasure that object,
you know, like. And you know what?
I think he'd given that to anybody who asked, like, I don't
know. But, you know, that's not an
expensive object I bought at auction.
That was just like me walking upto a magician I really admired
and just went, can I have that? You know, I sometimes it's just
understanding the moment. Whenever you look at Houdini
(39:27):
straitjacket in your home, how do you feel knowing that you
have something physical that wasworn by, used by, and touched by
one of the most iconic magiciansof all time?
Oh yeah, a great, great honor. And that's what it is.
I mean, look, in this Marie Kondo era of minimalism and not
(39:50):
wanting to own anything and asking if anything brings you
joy. I am very comfortable saying I'm
a maximalist. I love stuff.
I love saving things. There's nothing that that
tickles me more than going through an old box and coming
upon something that I didn't remember having or buying or
collecting. And it's a wonderful feeling.
(40:12):
Owning those objects brings me real joy.
And you know, the the Houdini stuff is is very special.
I have a lot of. Friends who would not forgive me
if I didn't take this opportunity to bring up Game of
Thrones. Yes.
What do you want to know about the the sword illusions?
Yeah, if you could talk about how that happened.
(40:35):
And also, you've also done some collaborations, not just for
Game of Thrones, but other things like commercials and
promotional materials. What is your process in creating
magic that's not meant for you, but for other people to present,
as in Game of Thrones? Yeah, well, that one came about
in the era of 6 Impossible Things.
(40:58):
And it was the, I guess the, theproducers of the segment, they
came to the show and they said, hey, we want to do something
interesting to unveil. I think it was season 2 or 3 of
Game of Thrones and then more largely other HBO shows.
(41:20):
And, and it was the first time or one of the first times that
they were promoting that you could watch these things on a
tablet. You know, the iPad was new at
that time. And so they said, could you
create some illusions from the tablet through, through the
tablet for the shows? And one of the things they
wanted to do was to pull a swordout of the tablet and have a
(41:43):
catch fire. And it was wonderful.
So I, I went to this sound stageand we, I designed all these
illusions and we, we put them all together and it was some CGI
and some practical illusion stuff.
And it was really, really fun. And the whole time they were
like, you know, I'll change the name.
But they were like, well, our boss Rich would have to approve
(42:04):
that. Well, Rich has got to come in.
Well, Rich has got to do this. Rich has got to do that.
And like, who's this Rich guy? Well, you'll see he's coming on
Friday. And when Rich gets there on
Friday, I realize it's my neighbor in my New York
apartment. Like the guy who lives 16
million people live in New York City, and this is the guy who
lives on my floor 2 doors down from me.
(42:24):
It's a truly magical moment to to know that he was actually in
charge of the segment and didn'tknow that I was in on it.
And it was just great. Well, I'd be remissed if I
didn't bring up Vanishing Ink, and when I talked to Andy, he
mentioned that it it was originally started because the
two of you wanted to be able to market and package your magic
(42:46):
your way. Could you talk about what
Vanishing Ink has meant to you and Andy?
And just how do you feel knowingthat it's become one of the
biggest online magic stores thatnow magicians all over the world
flock to? Yeah, it's a, it's a huge honor
and, and a responsibility. And I think, I think we're
pretty sober in our view of, of the responsibilities that go
(43:09):
with it, but also the opportunities that it affords
us. And yeah, super grateful that
it's been embraced in this way. You know, I can honestly say
this and it again, you hate to speak in cliches, but when
they're true, how else can you speak?
Like we started it because we wanted to to create the magic
(43:30):
shop that we wished existed. And to that point, there was
really no magic shop on that scale run by performing
magicians. And we wanted to do things
differently. You know, there are things that
we can look back now and, and not really say are innovative,
but at the time they were reallyinnovative.
Like we are almost always pair our the books we release with
(43:53):
video, you know, and that was an, an innovation at the time.
We have a full marketing department, like people who do
nothing but market our magic. We have a full customer service
team that just didn't really exist 15 years ago in the, in
the way that it does now. I mean, the idea that you can
write US 24 hours a day and ask about your package or ask for
(44:16):
some help or ask if something's really that good as it looks,
you know, that's a, that's a kind of new advent to the, to
the landscape. And you know, we're proud of
that. I think that my favorite part of
Vanishing Ink, I, I love so manyparts.
Of course I love the books. That's always close to my heart
'cause I'm such a magic book junkie myself.
(44:38):
But I think my favorite part of the events, we do 4 events a
year. We do Magic Fest in the session
2 conventions in January, both of them in London and Columbus,
OH. But we also do retreats, and
this was an idea that I originally had based on yoga
retreats. Girlfriend at the time was like,
hey, let's go on a yoga retreat in Thailand.
(44:59):
I was like, what's that? And she said, well, you sightsee
and, you know, you explore Thailand, but then in the
evenings you do yoga. And I was like, that sounds
great, except for the yoga part.And I thought, man, that would
be so cool if we could do magic where you sightseeing, go on
luxurious adventure, travel. And then in the evenings when
(45:19):
you're not sightseeing, you talk, walk, breathe magic.
And so that's what we've done. So we're just getting ready to
go to Mexico City, and then Greece will be the next one.
And we've just in Japan for one.And so yeah, they, they go all
over the place and it's really, really sucks.
Well, congratulations are definitely in order, because
(45:42):
thanks to Vanishing Ink, you andAndy were recently awarded the
Literary Achievement Award by the Academy of Magical Arts.
Yeah, that was such an unexpected, sweet, sweet
situation. I I'm in awe of that.
Clearly there is definitely a lot of love for Vanishing Ink.
And I say that because one thingAndy and I also talked about
(46:04):
when I spoke with him is, of course, what made really big
news was the fire that happened at your Los Angeles warehouse.
And there was this huge outpouring of love and support
and magicians just wanted to give, you know, anything to
help, any money to help you guysget back on your feet.
How was it for you to feel this huge outpouring of love from the
(46:26):
entire Magic community? Oh, just unbelievable.
Really, really special. You know, I can't put it into
words. I mean, people were just just
that we had so many people ask if we needed hands on the ground
that they could just fly in and sweep up or or you know, start
(46:48):
cataloging damage. Like just unbeliev.
Can you imagine that? Total strangers offering that.
I can't even imagine. Yeah, it's just wonderful.
You know, with all of these great achievements that you've
been able to have, your TV appearances, stage shows and
travel shows all over the world,and all of these great things
you've been able to accomplish. I'm curious, Joshua, how do you
(47:08):
manage to keep yourself humble in the midst of having all of
this success and all of these awards?
Well, you're assuming I'm humble, my friend.
We don't know each other that well.
You know, I, I, I don't know. I mean, that's a tough question
to answer. It's kind of a, a loaded
question because I don't know ifI am humble.
(47:30):
I hope I am. I try to be.
I work at it. You know what?
I think very carefully about theword ego because I think most
people get it totally wrong. They'll say the so and so has an
ego. So and so has an ego.
Guess what? News flash, we all have egos.
An ego is a an absolutely essential part of having any
(47:55):
personality whatsoever. A more, I think accurate thing
would be to say someone has a large ego or a small ego or an
outsized ego or, you know, use those sorts of terms.
But look, stepping on stage and performing magic in any way,
shape or form, there is an element of ego in it.
(48:17):
There just is. There is an element of ego in
saying to yourself, what I have to share is worth sharing and
that I'm good, right? You you need that's at a
minimum. I mean, Can you imagine from
there the mindset goes crazy with some performers.
I'm the best there ever was. But you need some form of ego
(48:40):
and and also ego is a great asset if it's controlled.
I mean, to say to yourself, which is what we all say when
we're pushing the envelope, to say to yourself, I don't like
cups and balls. The way it's taught and the way
I've seen everybody else do it. I think I can do better.
I mean, that is a wonderfully healthy, ego driven way to try
(49:04):
and push the envelope to new heights.
And it's what every single one of us say whenever we're
innovating, right is I don't like the way something is.
I don't like the way it looks when these other people do it.
I can do better. That is a form of ego.
And so, you know, I try, of course, I strive to, to keep
myself in check and learn from, from ways that maybe I'm not as
(49:26):
humble as I should be in their humbling experiences and
failures, but I always try to give myself a little bit of a
pass that like ego called another thing is bravery.
It's the, it's the ability to look at yourself and go, I can
do this. I can succeed where others have
failed or I've failed before. And, you know, I think that's
(49:50):
what drives us to success sometimes.
How do you feel about the fact that you've also had the
opportunity to collaborate with a lot of big names and magic,
many of whom I'm assuming are also your heroes?
How does that feel, to know thatyou're able to stand shoulder to
shoulder with some of today's greats?
Yeah, I mean, that's just another perk of of being in an
(50:11):
industry that is tiny. I mean, how wonderful it is
that, you know, if you work hardin this craft, you're just, you
are going to come face to face with David Blaine and David
Copperfield and Derren Brown. And you can't not, I mean, it,
it's, it's inevitable on your path that you would come face to
face with those guys. And the fact that they're all
(50:33):
accessible is so wonderful and agreat credit to them.
It's, it's, it's a gift magic. Is this this great gift?
I'm so glad that it's not baseball or music or, or
something else that it's this perfect size that we can all be
this this tight knit community and, and, you know, sharing
(50:57):
these experiences as we hopefully push things further
and leave it a little better than then we found it.
Well, Joshua, here's my last question to you, my friend.
What's the one piece of advice that has served you well that
you'd want everyone else to hear?
No, Yeah, that's a great question.
(51:21):
You know, I, I, I will definitely answer your question
in the spirit you're asking in in general terms.
I'm not somebody who who thinks that we're one tweet or one rule
or one piece of advice away from, you know, any kind of
meaningful improvement. I think that like there are
(51:42):
really no shortcuts to, to this,this game that we all play.
But let me think. I mean the thing that when I,
when I speak to young magicians that I always say is passion
drives everything else. You know, the, the hard truth is
when I teach magic in a lecture or youth conference or
(52:03):
something, there's such a wide variety of skill levels.
And sadly, there's such a wide variety of aptitude.
It just comes easy to some people and it comes very hard to
other people. There's some people that after
six months, their sleight of hand is so smooth and so spot
on. And other people who have been
at it for 20 years and not for lack of trying, but it just
(52:27):
looks inelegant and rough and like an uphill struggle, right?
Aptitude is something we don't control.
Some people can get in front of a group and sound as natural as
I'm talking now just to you. And some people, no matter how
many decades they've been at it,they sound like a robot on
stage. We just don't control the raw
(52:47):
materials and the aptitude. The only thing we can control is
the passion. And if the passion is there, if
you get up and can't not do magic, you know, coming back to
what we talked about earlier, ifit's an impulse for you, if it's
a, a passion, something you can't live without, the rest
takes care of itself. All those skills fall into
(53:08):
place. The people who struggled in the
beginning, when they have the passion, they find a way to
breakthrough it and, and get thehelp they need and, and get
those skills sharpened. And it, it just, it drives
everything else. It makes you want to go further.
It means that you never have to practice when it's not fun
because the whole thing is fun for you.
(53:29):
Passion drives everything else. And I try and tell people like,
look, it doesn't make you evil if you're not super passionate
about magic. Something that you found
fascinating as eight years old does not mean it's still
fascinating for you at 17 or 40 or 70.
Like things change, but when youdon't have the spark and the
passion anymore, that's trouble.Absolutely amazing.
(53:53):
Well, Joshua, this has been an absolutely fantastic time and I
cannot thank you enough for joining me today and I wish you
all the best in your life and your career, my friend.
Thank you very much. This is great that you're doing
this, and I'm honored that you asked me to be part of it.
Passion drives everything. Whatever it is you're doing,
(54:15):
never lose that passion. It makes what you're doing even
more important. A very big thank you to Joshua J
for speaking to me today. He's truly an amazing man and if
you get a chance to see him in action, definitely take that
chance. His show is 1 you won't want to
miss. It's always a pleasure to share
(54:36):
this time with you, my friends. I'm LD Madera wishing you all
lots of love today and remind you that you are who you are and
you are special. Don't forget to rate and review
and be sure to check out my website, ldmadera.com.
See you later on the next episode of Improv and Magic.
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