Have you ever felt ensnared in a relationship where your needs were overshadowed by your partner's overwhelming presence? Or perhaps you've struggled with the silent battle scars of past traumas influencing your marriage? Join us, Tiffany Windsor and Mary Koenig, as we courageously tackle these sensitive issues, offering a sanctuary of wisdom for Christian women entwined with narcissistic partners or grappling with other relationship challenges. With the guidance of scripture and the solidarity of our shared experiences, this episode is a heartfelt quest for truth and a testament to the liberating power of faith.
As we vulnerably share our personal journeys and the complexities of navigating marriage and parenthood, we illustrate the transformative impact of self-awareness and mutual commitment to growth. Mary's poignant prayer, drawing from John 8:31-32, sets a foundation of hope as we discuss the importance of community, the healing potential within Scripture, and the beauty of redemption in relationships willing to confront and mend unhealthy dynamics. Amidst the soothing backdrop of rain, our conversation is an empowering embrace for those seeking solace and strength on their path to a more fulfilling life.
You can find all our episode information at https://www.inhiscircle.com and join us on Instagram and Facebook. You can also watch our podcast episodes on YouTube - Please join our community!
Episode Transcript
Welcome to In His Hands podcast from women for
women.
We're here to help you findpeace in knowing you are in
God's hands.
Our goal is sharing the Word ofGod in simple conversations.
We're here to help you thriveevery day.
And now, here are your hosts.
Tiffany Windsor (00:18):
Good morning.
I'm Tiffany Windsor and I'mMary Koenig, and today we want
to talk about facing the truthand, Mary, will you pray us in?
Mary Koning (00:27):
I will.
I'm reading from John, chapter8, verses 31 and 32.
If you abide in my word and youare truly my disciples and you
will know the truth, and thetruth will set you free.
And there's a version that saysin the truth will make you free
.
So, lord, both set and make usfree, buy your word and with
(00:48):
your truth and help us be bravewarrior.
Women In Jesus' name, amen.
Tiffany Windsor (00:55):
Amen.
I do want to let everyone knowthat it is raining here this
morning, so you may hear rain inthe background and we've
decided to go ahead and justrecord because we really want to
talk about this topic today.
This came to mind for me, mary,because I was thinking about
the three women that I'm reallyclose to right now, and all of
(01:16):
you have had challenges frombeing in narcissistic
relationships.
I was asking you what are thedifferent challenges that
Christian women are having inrelationships?
Is it always narcissistic men?
So I'd love for you to talkabout that today, because in
(01:37):
chatting about this before westarted recording, you pointed
out to me some of the differentcharacteristics that can really
challenge a relationship andforce you into facing the truth.
Mary Koning (01:52):
And that is dredging up a lot of past issues
and emotions, and so I'm goingto try and gather my thoughts
here.
Not having any wise women orcommunity, as a young married
and a young mom, I was left totry to figure things out and
using the Bible and thecommunity I had which wasn't
(02:15):
close, it was a homeschoolingcommunity and a church community
, along with a community Biblestudy to try and figure out how
to operate in a marriage and tobe a wife and a mom, and my
special set of circumstanceswhere I was a child raised to
try and figure things out bymyself because I didn't feel
(02:35):
like it was safe to askquestions or make mistakes or
not know what to do, and so Icarried that through to
adulthood, where I was justlooking around and trying to
figure out what to do on my ownwithout asking any questions or
feeling safe enough to askquestions.
So all of that added up tofinding a narcissist to marry
and in a way I was relievedbecause then I could abdicate
(02:57):
responsibility to this personwho wanted to control everything
, and that was okay for a whileuntil it wasn't okay anymore.
Tiffany Windsor (03:05):
I asked for you to break down for me what are
some of the other challengesthat women may find in marriage.
One of the words that I wrotedown is you said well, this past
could be very selfish.
That doesn't necessarily equateto narcissism.
Mary Koning (03:22):
No, and in my recovery group there were many
instances of where a betrayalhad happened, whatever that
betrayal might be.
Some of the betrayals might bepornography, actual affair or an
online affair, financial abuse,some things where truth is
hidden purposefully in order tosatisfy the man.
(03:45):
In this case, it was all menbecause we were women in the
recovery group, but women can dothis kind of thing too.
There were many instances ofwomen in marriages that weren't
healthy becoming healthy, andthat was so beautiful to see.
It was really beautiful to seethat if the spouse was willing
(04:05):
to own their behavior and learnhow to become healthy and make
different choices, then thatmarriage had a chance to succeed
and become more healthy.
In my case, that wasn't thecase, from my unhealthy issues
that I was bringing in that Iwasn't healed from, and then the
exes unhealthy things.
(04:26):
We had gone too far and had toomuch unhealthiness to recover
from and we ended up divorced.
Tiffany Windsor (04:35):
We've talked about narcissism.
There could be selfishness inthe spouse where they're just
not willing to participate at acertain level to try and heal
the marriage.
You could have a partner thatsimply shuts down.
I'm guessing that's probablylack of emotional intelligence.
They just don't step intoanything emotionally.
(04:58):
They could be unaware,uneducated.
I kind of think of that asshutting down.
What I'm trying to get tobecause our friend Lisa Wilcox
is really talking to us a lotabout this the steps that you
may go through to startidentifying this and getting
from the pit into your power.
(05:19):
How do you face the truth?
How do you step into this?
Because you've talked aboutyears and years of dealing with
a relationship that wasn'tworking.
What finally brings someone tothe brink to say I need to face
the truth about this.
Mary Koning (05:39):
So my particular issue was the message I was
receiving from church about Godhating divorce and God hating
divorce and needing to staymarried because that's a
covenant before God.
That kept me in an unhealthymarriage for years and years
(05:59):
until I understood that Godloves people more than he loves
the institution of marriage.
God loves people first and mostand whether we're married or
not, he loves us best.
This message I'm not sure if itwas overt or covert that it
wasn't okay to leave a marriageand be a believer kept me in
(06:23):
denial and in an unhealthymarriage for years.
And add to that my living inthe state of denial and we had
mentioned selfishness and myselfish want to stay married,
regardless of how damaging itwas to me and the kids.
My selfishness of not wanting toface the discomfort of divorce
(06:44):
and having to just the utterdestruction like the tornado of
a destruction and having torebuild comfort seeking versus
truth facing and having tooperate in a church where
marriage was so valued over meand many women and just my
(07:05):
personhood.
I just didn't want to face thatalone, and so I read Gretchen
Baskerville's life savingdivorce and that just was a
switch, because I was eithergoing to stay in the marriage
and die or leave and live.
Because I was so sick, I was soso thyroid issues and I
(07:26):
couldn't see straight, and somany health issues because I was
denying my personhood for thesake of the marriage.
So I'm not sure where thatmessage came from, other than I
absorbed it from church.
And there's so many unhealthystay married books that you can
find in stay married life groups, and the last book study I was
(07:46):
in with the small group at thelast church I was in was Emerson
Egretsch's Love and Respect.
And boy, he's getting a lot ofbacklash right now because he
isn't truthfully calling abuseabuse.
He's again putting unwarranted,unhealthy responsibility on the
wife for the husband's behaviorand that is not God's intention
(08:07):
.
He does not want the person tosacrifice themself for the sake
of the marriage.
Tiffany Windsor (08:14):
I do want to reiterate that we first pray for
all of our girlfriends to beable to work through their
marriage, have both husband andwife step up and face the truth
and start talking and sharing.
But when you don't have twopeople that are willing to step
(08:38):
up like that, at some pointwe're speaking to women here, so
at some point the wife has tomake some sort of decision after
asking, probably numerous times, for help and in wanting to
talk through this with herspouse.
You can't define the moment,the moment of facing the truth,
(09:01):
but I have to assume that womenall go through that same moment
and let me just add this becausewhen they're going through that
moment, they need someone toreach out to right.
Mary Koning (09:12):
Yes, for me it was knowing the truth, having
friends tell me the truth andstill yet not wanting to face
the truth because the truthmeant the destruction of my
family.
Tiffany Windsor (09:27):
What I'm seeing a lot of times.
When women are working inunhealthy family relationships
and then they go out into theworkforce, they're challenged
with the same issues and thesame abuse.
Mary Koning (09:41):
So interesting that my current job is a mini
version of my marriage.
And I know God's just kind oflaughing with me and at me
because he knows I know thethings to do, the right things
to do, because I've taken thetime and the effort to heal and
(10:02):
give myself a well-filledtoolbox of what I'm supposed to
do.
But he really wants me to usethose tools instead of operating
my old way of being.
And it's testing.
It's a testing ground for sure.
Tiffany Windsor (10:16):
I definitely feel like the Lord keeps
bringing opportunities in frontof us to learn, and if you don't
learn, then he brings youanother opportunity to learn and
grow and another one.
And we're constantly growing.
We're constantly learning.
That never stops, even when youthink you've mastered something
(10:37):
, there's always opportunity tolearn.
I have learned so much throughtalking through all of these
last weeks with you, mary, andthese last years.
I've learned so much more aboutwomen's needs, women's wants,
what the church does to so manywomen, and I love my church.
(10:58):
I have not dug into whatchallenges may be going on there
, but I do know in otherreligious organizations there
are certain churches that don'tseem to support healthy
marriages.
We keep talking about healthymarriages, but how do you get
there?
How do you get there?
(11:19):
So I'm really stumbling todaybecause I'm trying to find the
right words to let women knowthat this community is here for
you.
We're setting up mentorships,we're setting up workshops where
you can learn more.
You can see all of the signs ofdysfunction in a relationship,
because I'm learning through thefriendships that the Lord has
(11:43):
brought to me over the past fewyears that this is so needed in
our communities and I amheartbroken that I have not seen
this and been there for otherwomen.
That is what the Lord has puton my heart, that this is what
we are to do, and it's righthere.
This, my dear friend Mary, it's.
(12:03):
It's right here for her everysingle day as she is navigating
through this, and I just honorthe strength in you, mary,
because I know this has not beenan easy journey for you and
you're still every day trying tolearn something new, to gather
new strength and knowledge.
Mary Koning (12:23):
Thank you and just a message of hope that the Lord
can heal a willing heart.
So many marriages were saved inthis recovery group I was in
and that was encouraging and Ineeded to see that that there
were men and women who werewilling to face their shame and
(12:44):
trade their shame for truth andhealing and wholeness that God
was offering.
And so that's the core base ofa healthy marriage.
And we can't do it, you know,in isolation, because I didn't
want anyone to see what wasgoing on in my family, so we
kept it isolated and I wouldn'tspeak my truth.
And they still struggle tospeak my truth.
(13:06):
But there is a path through, tothe other side, and Jesus came
to seek and save, and he came todo that through truth.
So I'm just going to say theverse again, because it's just
so powerful is that you willknow the truth and the truth
will set you free.
So we pray that over you.
If the truth is hard today,that's okay.
(13:30):
God knows that too.
But Jesus never leaves you norforsakes you and he loves you
with an everlasting love.
So I pray that you feel thatcircle, sister, that you know it
, and if you still don't believeit, that you just trust that
God is the one that tells youthe truth every day, in Jesus'
(13:51):
name, amen.
Amen.
Announcer (13:54):
Thank you for joining us for today's podcast.
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