Certified Quackery: Navigating Health Misinformation

The alarming world of health misinformation takes center stage as we welcome Dr. Mike, a chiropractor pursuing a master's in nutrition, and Susanna, a registered dietitian, to unpack the dangerous double standards in health information distribution.

Have you noticed how health influencers can spread questionable advice without consequences while licensed professionals risk their entire careers from a single misstep? Our guests offer an inside look at this troubling imbalance, sharing their experiences navigating patient concerns about trending topics like "toxic seed oils" and extreme dietary approaches. The conversation reveals how social media has created a perfect storm where the most extreme voices often gain the largest platforms—despite lacking scientific backing.

Dr. Mike pulls back the curtain on ethical chiropractic practice, dispelling myths about "alignment" and explaining why some practitioners push extended treatment plans. Meanwhile, Susanna provides invaluable perspective on why dietitians rarely provide actual meal plans despite this being one of their protected professional functions. Both share stories of patients arriving with strong preconceived notions from internet research and how they navigate these delicate conversations.

Perhaps most concerning is the psychological impact of extreme health messaging. Our guests discuss how fear-based nutrition advice contributes to rising rates of orthorexia and eating disorders. When patients ask, "What am I even supposed to eat anymore?" after being told everything is toxic, it reflects the genuine anxiety many experience when trying to make healthy choices. The experts advocate for a balanced approach that considers individual circumstances, mental wellbeing, and quality of life—not just rigid dietary rules.

Ready to develop a healthier relationship with health information? Join us for this eye-opening conversation that will forever change how you evaluate nutrition and wellness advice. Follow our guests on social media for evidence-based information you can actually trust.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to In Moderation.
We're here without Liam becauseLiam is busy doing adult things
.
Right now he's actually goingto be looking into moving, so
he's looking at houses and stuff.
So he's kind of busy for a week.
Wow, so I hate him.
Can't relate to adult things,that's okay, I've replaced him

(00:23):
with our favorite people thathappen to be available today.
Welcome in Dr Mike and Susanna.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Thank you, thanks for having me, and it's been a
while since I have time to doany of this.

Speaker 1 (00:37):
Well, since it's been a while, why don't you
introduce yourself first?

Speaker 3 (00:42):
So I'm the only chiropractor the group trusts.
I think that's a pretty bigachievement, pretty good title
that I'll put up there.
But no, like, I'm achiropractor in Tampa Florida
and I love nutrition so muchthat I decided to pursue it as a
master's program.
So soon I'll be graduating inAugust and then taking the

(01:05):
dietitian license, so that'sgonna be fun.
Um, so yeah, I'm the only oneof a few chiropractors in the
world that likes to just keepgoing, but there's a lot of us.
They're just hidden, I promisethey're the ones that avoid
social media, I think yeah,there's very few that kind of do
social media, but even I don'thave time like to sit down and

(01:26):
post which I should well, that'sbecause you're too busy playing
clear, obscure expedition 33okay I have like 80 something
hours on it, so let's calm downtoo much.
I mean game of the year, right,listen, I am not.
I'm not a huge fan of singleplayers for a very long time and
my cousin was like bugging meto go, like, hey, you're going
to like it.

(01:47):
It has that dark fantasy feeland I just decided to play on a
Monday which I don't work onMondays and I woke up at 10.
I turn off the computer at 10pm.
I was 12 hours in one day, so Ithink it's game of the year.
I've done that.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
Yeah, it's a.
It's a pretty amazing game.
How about you, susanna?

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yes, I'm Susanna.
I'm a dietician, um.
I currently work in anoutpatient setting in pediatrics
and then in a genetics clinic,also outpatient and do a lot of
stuff on social media.
I never was able to niche down,so I just post about what I
want to post about, which hasn'tworked in like a growth way,

(02:35):
but it makes me at least want tocontinue.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
So if it makes you happy, that's what matters.
Yeah, particularly on socialmedia, where media where, uh,
when you do start to niche downand you force yourself to start
doing these specific things,it's just like, oh, do I have to
do this again?

Speaker 2 (02:53):
yeah, I don't know, I was cringing at the area.
I was sort of like going intoit's, like I don't feel, I don't
know it was.
You start following otherpeople who are doing the same
thing and you're like I don'tlike this atmosphere.
So now I just do what I want.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, I know with my content I've had a lot of people
.
They're like oh, I preferredwhen you did it in this format,
or I preferred that format.
And I'm like, look, if I didthe same thing over and over and
over again, I would havestopped posting by now, like
that's just, that's dull, it'snot fun for me.

(03:31):
You might like it, that's fine,but I also have to think about
me and my mental health.
Hell yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Just being on social media at all is a roller coaster
.

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Oh yeah, especially if you open the comment section,
you get, you get even moredepressed okay, what's?

Speaker 1 (03:46):
what's the worst comment you guys have gotten?

Speaker 3 (03:48):
oh boy I think the most, I think the most common
one is you're not a real doctor.
I think that's the most commonone and I get it.
You know I'm not trying toportray a medical doctor right
but I did a lot of time, youknow, and I think I did a lot of
time, you know, and I think Idid a lot of time, you know, I
mean I'm never going to comparemy doctorate ever to medical.

(04:12):
Like medical school is crazy.
And I have a lot, of, a lot ofgood colleagues and friends who
are chiropractors.
They chiropractic for aboutfive, six years and they're like
F this, I'm just going to go tomedical school six years.
And they're like f this, I'mjust gonna go to medical school,
and they've done the whole.
They they've completed thefirst year and it's like, yeah,
I completed the three year,three, four years of
chiropractic school in one yearmedical school.

(04:33):
So it's like very intense.
Um, but I think a lot of peoplemisuse the word doctor, which
essentially just means highestlevel of education per se.
You know, and I think I getthat a lot.
At first it would bug mebecause, like I promise I'm
trying to help people, I'm not aquack.
But nowadays it's just like,okay, you know, I see it with,

(04:57):
like you know, some medicaldoctors Like I've seen comments
like that on the other Dr Mike,you know, you're not a real
doctor, you're pushing pills I'mlike okay, cool, so people are
just trolling.
I think that's the most commonone I get.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah, a lot of people think that doctor is synonymous
with their general practitioneror surgeon.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
But they don't even like real doctors anymore.
People don't even like doctors.
It's like, no matter whatcredential you have, you're
doing it wrong.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
So you know what I tell people?
I tell people, um, they'respecialists in an area.
You're not going to call yourplumber to you to do your
electric stuff and you're notgoing to call a mechanical
engineer to do what a chemicalengineer is going to do.
They're both engineers andthey'll have an idea of what
they do, but they're not gonnabe, you know, specialists in

(05:47):
that area.

Speaker 2 (05:48):
Most of the times I get blocked after that, but it's
okay I will say I I have like Iused to be like really intense
but like dieticians are thenutrition experts and like no
one else can talk.
And then actually I think itwas sort of probably rob and
liam, where, like you wouldcover nutrition content better
than like the dietitians I wouldfollow and I'd be like you know

(06:10):
what and I know Liam's, youknow working towards yeah, he's
getting a master's and stuff.
But I was like it's not so muchabout the actual credential,
it's just about respecting likeyour limitations and A hundred
percent, I agree, because I'malmost done with mine.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
I'm still thinking I don't know anything.
I don't know if that's how youfelt with yours, but it's like
I'm almost done and I'm like,yeah, let me, let me do a little
bit of research, cause I reallydon't know about this one.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
So to say you're learning how to find information
and you're learning what youdon't know so that you go in
with the appropriate amount offear.

Speaker 3 (06:49):
I think that's a really good way to put it,
especially because people aregetting very smart, sometimes
dumb smart, but people are trulygetting smart.
Yeah, like people like I elbowpain, I think I have cancer.
I'm like I don't think youshould be Googling that, but I
do get the occasional patientthat will, like you know,
challenge me and I'm like, damn,that's a I don't know that

(07:09):
question, like, but that alsoproves that you're human and I
think that that, for me, hasbring a lot of respect.
Sometimes I even pull like oneof my books from the shelf, like
, hey, let's see what the booksays, real quick, and for them
that's like, oh, that's reallylike reassuring that you want to
be specific.
That's what I've seenpersonally.

Speaker 2 (07:45):
That's the difference between the good people on
social media and the grifters isthe capacity to say you don't
know, the capacity to go out andlearn, the capacity to keep
learning, admit you're wrong,all those things.
The most ridiculous situationwhere I was like maybe you're
right, I need to look into whatyou're saying with a patient.
They were drinking a lot ofsoda, but they were reassuring
me.
They're like we get clear soda,we don't get brown soda.
And I was like, oh, is that forcaffeine reasons?
Soda, we don't get brown soda.

(08:06):
And I was like, oh, is that for, like, caffeine reasons?
And they were like, no, it'sbecause there's less sugar in
the clear soda.
And I kind of like, for asecond I believed them.
I was like, oh, I didn't knowthat.
So I was like, okay, we'll keepdoing that.
And then I like went, looked itup and I was like, oh, that's
completely inaccurate, but itgot me for a bit.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
I've had some some weird stuff, yeah, but you know,
sometimes I have to remindmyself that I need to control
sometimes what I want to say andbe professional, um, because I
I don't know the person, butwith, like the occasional
patient who is like you know,becomes a friend over time you

(08:44):
know, been with me for threeyears already you know those
people I can be like verystraightforward, um, and be very
honest and and that's cool.
But sometimes I get like thenew pace and then I'm like what
are you talking about?
How do I approach thissituation without something you

(09:04):
know, I guess, smart?
Because sometimes it is,because sometimes people are
very, very I came to like thisis the only way.
I really don't care what youthink I'm like and why are you
here?

Speaker 1 (09:15):
that's a that's a big problem on social media is they
push that certain things arethe only way to do something oh
and everything is a tool in atoolbox oh 100 I.

Speaker 3 (09:27):
I had this console, the virtual console, with with
this patient and she was comingin for some back pain and but in
in the console she mentionedsome stuff about like fatigue
and stuff.
Like here I'm going to send youa nutritional intake, just
finish it up just to see ifthere's something, and in the
area that says what are you forcooking, and she put no seed

(09:50):
oils in caps lock it's.
This is cancerous.
And I'm like, oh my god, how doI approach this?
Right, like because after thateverything else in the intake
made a lot of sense.
So it's more.
And I don't know if this is thesame thing with you, susanna,
but sometimes it feels likewe're doing more psychological

(10:10):
counseling than anything else.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Just picking and choosing battles.
I feel like I feel like I seestuff about seed oil so much
more on social media than I doin real life and it might have
to do with the socioeconomicstatus of the people that I end
up seeing, but it's less of anissue in clinic.
I've noticed I don't know andit seems like everyone cares

(10:35):
about it on social media, so I'malways surprised that people
aren't talking about it.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
Right.

Speaker 3 (10:40):
I don't know, I haven't seen a lot I've had
genuinely questions about likepatients, like hey, what do you
think about seed oils?
Or what do you think about X, y, z?
And I've had people who think acertain way and then I just ask
them why do you think that?
And occasionally I heard itfrom the Internet like who was

(11:03):
the person?
So this, whatever, and it'slike okay, did they explain what
happens?
And then I kind of put, try toput the ball on the court all
their time until they, theythemselves go.
I really don't know.
You know, and that gives methat opening like okay, so let's
really look what's going on,let's look the research, let's.
And sometimes I have like easy,you know, um rcts I have in

(11:26):
bookmarking.
I just go through them like hey, this is how it works, so they
can have an idea.
I'm not trying to make theminto a dissertation, but at
least have them be like hey, andespecially with rat studies
Most of the times it's ratstudies I'm like, hey, try to
put the dosage from the ratstudy into yourself.
You're probably going to pee itout, poop it out, sweat it out

(11:47):
real quick.

Speaker 2 (11:48):
My favorite resource I don't know if you guys have
been on sarah valentine'swebsite.
She has just like a vegetableoil.
She has everything.
Every like question people ask,she has an answer to it and and
then she has references.
So I love that.
I feel like that's the bestcompilation of seed oil

(12:09):
information I've found.
Damn I should put that on mywebsite.

Speaker 3 (12:14):
I should put that on like a FAQ, but having like
myths and myths, that would becool.

Speaker 2 (12:21):
And it's interesting because she has a background of,
like she was the paleo mom.
So I feel like if the formerpaleo mom tells you you can have
seed oils, you can believe itright, like she's clearly been
skeptical of things like that.

Speaker 1 (12:35):
Um yeah, and it's interesting that, um, there's
that internet kerfuffle ofsomebody coming after her
because she had a history ofbeing the paleo mom.
Since you were the paleo mom,you can't get dietary advice.

Speaker 2 (12:51):
No, that just means they she learned I found it very
reassuring, like yeah, I mean,she's admitting her mistakes.
Like yeah, I thought that thatwas in fact a lot of the
dietitians and stuff.

Speaker 1 (13:06):
They will have something that they were like
yeah, I used to believe this.
Now I don't.

Speaker 2 (13:11):
Yeah, I think that's what we talked about on your.
The last episode I was on wasjust like I believed a lot of
things.
Fortunately I was not on socialmedia, so there's no record of
that.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
There's no record of that.
Well, now you say that that ispretty true because one of my
favorite professors for theMaster's program he's like 72,
and he's still teaching becausehe loves it and he's been
through like the whole changesthroughout nutrition because
he's been practicing for 50years and he goes like I

(13:46):
remember when I was giving atalk about like oh, oh, don't
eat this type of fat becauseit's going to kill you.
And then 10 years later he'slike doing.
Another comes like sorry aboutthat, uh, I was wrong, you can
have it.
Um, so he would.
He would be like you knowhaving those.
Like, oh, don't eat.
Uh, don't eat rfo sweetener,it's going to keep that.
And then another comes like um,remember that conference I did
five years ago, yep, incorrect.
So that was pretty fun to see,like that transition of like how

(14:11):
it has evolved in the past 50years and being human to
understand when you're wrong,because I think that's the
biggest part that people can seethat oh, I was wrong.
I think a lot of people don'tdo that, especially all the
health gurus.
And oh my God, I don't know ifyou guys saw in the Discord that

(14:32):
I showed a picture of likerandom certification pathways
that I get in my Facebook like acertified juicer.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yes, I saw that one.
What?

Speaker 1 (14:42):
Oh my gosh.
Certified juicer.

Speaker 3 (14:47):
Because I'm always looking to like new stuff, like
oh, in the meantime I'll do likea random certification, but I
have to see if it's worth it andthen I get that.
I'm like what.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
I've seen so many like that, that I'm like okay I
feel like I kind of want to dothem all and just be like hey,
yeah, I'm a certified juicer,I'm a certified nut opener, I'm
a certified I don't know whatelse.

Speaker 3 (15:10):
It's a whole, it's like a month program of like
being a certified juice.
I'm like, wow, okay, youlearned how to juice a fruit.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
Congratulations, wow.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
I am impressed especially with so many of the
health coach stuff.
I think that's everyone's acoach, everyone's a coach,
everyone does.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
There's a big market of coaches, teaching coaches, or
coaches, coaching coachesinception, right.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
I've noticed that, yeah, and like courses for like
dietitians or like I'm surethey're in other fields, but I
always find people like tryingto coach dietitians about how to
sell things, sell their owncoaching programs, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
Yeah oh, yeah, same in car in in cairo world and I
got it all the time I hear,because the only way you see a
very successful chiropractor isI'm bashing my profession, but
it's OK.
It's because they oversell likeand lie a lot.
A lot of scam, yeah, and I seeit a lot with you know.

(16:20):
Oh, you have toe pain.
We're going to do six months oftreatment three times a week.
Why, what's going on with mytoe?
And then they will use likevery biased, non-research backed
instruments.
I would say that will like tellyou about like inflammation or
tell you about.
It's like a cult in myprofession and really, really

(16:43):
pisses me off because you wouldthink that something that has
been debunked for 50, 60 yearsit's still practice.
Like you still see new, likekairos, like coming out with
this, like philosophy of, likewell, you're broken.
You need to not do that.
I'm like hello, what do youmean?
What's?

Speaker 1 (17:03):
you need to not do that, and you need to come see
me multiple times a week inorder to not do that oh yeah, my
uh, one of my best friends.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Her mom has a little toy fox terrier that goes to see
her chiropractor, I think Ithink weekly.
Um, and I will.
I will say it's a very old toyfox carrier, so maybe it's
benefited it.
Have you ever seen a pet?

Speaker 3 (17:31):
Yes, I've seen, and I mean there was a time that I
said I want to do more with myscope and do as much as I can
with my scope, and that was oneof the things I looked into much
as I can with my scope and thatwas one of the things I looked
into because it became so likemainstream social media, like
adjusting dogs and cats, and Iknow there's a school in Texas

(17:54):
that does like the whole pathway.
But you have to.
In some states you have to haveeither in the office a bet to
like, have like supervision, oryou need to have a bet in a very
close proximity.
I don't know how it reallyworks.
I can tell you right now itworks the same way as humans the

(18:15):
adjustment or the pop or thecrack or whatever you want to
call it.
Essentially what it does,according to the data, is when
you hear the crack, you have arush of endorphins into the area
, which is pain hormones, andthat calms the pain a little bit
and since it calms the pain,increases range of motion.

(18:35):
But it's temporary that's thewhole thing where you have to
come three times a week becauseit's temporary.
Three times a week because it'stemporary, and that's what
pisses me off, because you canethically keep a patient for a
long time by doing a proper planexercise, rehab, nutrition and
they'll be happy.
They'll gladly stay with youforever.
If you have, if you're helpingthem with their goals and not

(18:56):
just selling them a year plan ofgetting a back crack forever,
which, if you put it intoperspective, you also don't want
to have excess range of motionwith no strengthening.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
I don't know.
The whole important thing thereis following up the crack with
some rehab exactly.

Speaker 3 (19:14):
And there's people I don't even crack, which is weird
for me to say.
But there's people I don't evenadjust and they're okay shocker
sometimes you just do a littleexercise.
I'm sorry, Susanna.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
If you don't like, do an adjustment, then what do you
do?

Speaker 3 (19:28):
That's a really great question, um, cause I get it
all the time.
Um, it really depends on theperson's goals.
So I always tell them it's notwhat I want is what you want and
it's your goal.
So, for example, it's not whatI want, it's what you want and

(19:49):
it's your goal.
So, for example, if the personis an athlete like I work with
CrossFitters a lot, so with themI do adjust them pretty much
every visit, just because itjust helps them be a little bit
looser, for like the workout andeverything, and just do some
stability training, you knowmaking sure their snatches are
correct.
Or you know making sure theirform's good.
So it's more like coaching, butnot like the ones we see in

(20:11):
Instagram and TikTok.
So it depends on their goal.
But sometimes I can get awaywith not having to adjust and
getting to the same goal.
So if someone has hypertension,for example, example, I'm not
adjusting their neck everbecause there's a small.
There's, it's small, but it'shigher than the normal person

(20:34):
for a stroke.
And there's a lot of things Ican do that can get to the point
of getting them better, like Ican release endorphins by doing
any type of modality that helpswith pain.
That's the misconception yousee with chiropractors oh, your
neck is out of alignment.
No, if your neck was out ofalignment and it was, that

(20:56):
fragile football players willdie in the spot whenever they
get tackled.
So, no, not how it works.
It is a lot of sitting downwith them at first and, you know
, educating them like hey, like,I'll adjust to you if it's
needed, but I will also docupping or manual therapy or
exercise or acupuncture ordriving.

(21:16):
It all depends on what you needon that day.
And having them present when Ibuild the plan with them.
Um, having them present when Ibuild the plan with them, I
don't like to have a pre.
I was coached I hate that wordnow I was with another provider
that I used to work at.
I was, you know, kind ofcoaching to like having a
pre-made plan with like sixmonths of treatment, which is

(21:40):
not ethical.
And I switched that when Iopened my practice and I sit
down with them and do the plan,like, okay, what's your goal?
What do you want to get out ofme?
How fast do you want to get toyour goal?
And then I'm like, okay, we'lldo 10 sessions and we'll do you
know the first five, we'll do anhour so we can do 30 minutes of

(22:00):
rehab, and then the other fivewe will do, you know, whatever
we need.
So I think that for me, hashelped having a different
perspective in what chiropracticcan do, because I can get them,
they're really comfortable andthey're not going to be like, oh
, I'm going to get cracked andgo home.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
I think that's I know that's a very extensive answer,
but I hope that answers yourquestion.
Oh, yeah, that's helpful, Iguess I've.
I've actually never seen achiropractor, so I don't know
like the the flow of things, butIf you're not having any
immediate issues or no likerehab goals, then you're okay.
Yeah, I have yet to have aknock on wood, any kind of like.

Speaker 3 (22:45):
I don't know issues like that well, if you ever need
to just shoot me a message indiscord, I will I tell, I tell
everyone.
Please just send me a text andI'll find you someone that you
know it's, it's good yeah, yeah,don't go to wellness way.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Sure, anybody listening that doesn't know who
Wellness Way are.
They're basically the scumbagsof chiropractic.
I've seen worse.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
Oh yeah, they're just not social media-ish.
Yeah, gotcha.
Yeah, I've seen some localpeople that I'm like it's
questionable.
But you know, I I had thisconversation with a, a friend of
mine who's a chiropractorsports chiropractor.

(23:33):
He's like, well, technicallythey're not really hurting
anyone, so that's why we can'treally do anything about it,
because they're not killinganyone.
We can be scamming people oftheir money, but technically
they were volunteered to gothere.
So there's like, well, that'sreally true, like it's really
nothing we can do when someonehas like a.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Oh, I was just thinking, when someone has like
a stroke from that raresituation, do chiropractors get
sued or are you like pretty safe?

Speaker 3 (24:07):
chiropractors get sued or are you, like, pretty
safe from?
Oh that's a great question.
Um, it's not as often as socialmedia portrays it.
Um, I can tell you thatwhenever someone generally has a
stroke because of an adjustment, they there's a lot of
variables, like the patient wasnot possibly clear with the
chiropractor and just saying,hey, I have high blood pressure,

(24:29):
high cholesterol, I'm in statindrug.
You know there's a lot offactors that should be done.
There's a bad factor from thephysician.
If you, if your state, you're aphysician, florida, I'm a
physician, other states can'tcall yourself that.
Um, they did a good history orthey did a good exam.
Like, there's some basic testsyou can do just to check if you

(24:51):
know there could be someocclusions, like in the arteries
.
Um, or a basic x-ray 35 buckscheck an x-ray doesn't hurt, you
know you can see if you havecalcifications in the arteries.
It's a very, very cheap way tosave your life and save the
patient's life.
Um, most of the times when, ifit happens, some of them get

(25:14):
sued, but some of them have asuch a high coverage in their
insurance that they kind ofdon't get sued.

Speaker 2 (25:23):
So yeah, I'm sure the state plays a role.
I know like in Wisconsin it's agood state to be a doctor.
They're like highly protected.
But then in other states youcan.
I think Illinois it's less fun.

Speaker 3 (25:37):
Well, now that you say that in South Carolina I
learned from when I was doing mydry needling certification In
South Carolina.
You don't have to be certifiedin dry needling to do dry
needling.
You can just pick a needle andpoke people.
And if you check and if youcheck like the like, like the

(25:57):
amounts of pneumothorax thathave happened in the state,
they're all concentrated inSouth Carolina.
Because they're like oh yeah, Iwatched it on poke the lung.
That is crazy.
Like you don't need anything atall to just grab a needle and
start poking people.

Speaker 2 (26:14):
So it's like the equivalent of the juice class,
but with dry needling.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
Yeah, like people were just like, yeah, randomly
poking people and you knowthat's crazy because in Florida,
in Florida, you have to do twomonths of training, but it has
to be by a certified likeacademy that has been doing all
the research.
And there's other places thatyou have to do it in more time,
like there's states that youhave to do, you know, 60, 70, 60

(26:44):
, 80 hours just to be able topractice.
In Florida you only have to do40.
But there's states, like SouthCarolina, you have zero because
it's not regulated.
That's just a littlefrightening, it is.
So never go to someone thatadvertises for dry needling in
South Carolina.
Go to a different state, drivea little bit, drive a little bit

(27:07):
unless they had trained, unlessthey had training, if, if, if
they have it in their like bioor about, like they're like
certified by, by, even ifthey're not board certified, but
they have the same um training,just didn't have to take an
exam, then okay, you're safe toan extent.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Now I feel like I've learned so much about how
healthcare like varies fromstate to state, and particularly
you know, there's been a lot ofnews from Atlanta lately with
just reproductive care and thenlearning about the newborn
screen, because that's like.
I work with the newborn screena lot.
Pretty much all the conditionsin the genetics clinic that I

(27:44):
work with are found on thenewborn screen and like,
depending on what state you livein, kids are.
They run different testsbasically.
So I don't know there are prosand cons for wherever you go, I
do feel like there are somestates that are just like
inherently better, though theyare.

Speaker 3 (28:03):
They are because there's there's some states that
chiropractors can, only theycan't do exercise, which is
weird, like they can't do anylike rehab.
And there's states like newmexico that I think they were,
they had a shortage ofphysicians during covid.
I believe this is what happenedand they made a one-year

(28:26):
residency like fast track, sothat, um, those chiropractors
that had like that one-yearresidency which is qualified by
the board to like low level,like medication, like basic
antibiotics, basic musclerelaxers, because really, yeah,
it's only in new mexico, but youhave to take a one-year
residency, so it's like anadd-on, like I mean that's cool

(28:51):
because you are getting aresidency through like a
hospital.
So you, it's not like you'relike randomly taking an online
course, like here, take amoxifiland now you take this.
You know it's not like taking arandom, but it was interesting,
you know, because if you werelooking to get like some, if you
had a cold, you and your pcpwas full, you go to your

(29:13):
chiropractor.
He can was able to run the samelabs and tests.
I mean I think that's cool, butbut then that's only in New
Mexico because I can run labshere, but then I can I have to
refer for, like any medicationor hormone replacement stuff
like that, right.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Oh, I'm learning.
We don't want to like likethere are a lot of good
chiropractors out there but itjust takes a lot of.
You have to really the rightone.
There's a lot of variability.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
You have to really find the right one.
There's a lot of variability.
I always tell people if andthis is going to sound very bad
but don't just go with like 20years of clinical experience.
Insurance is great, I'm notsaying no, but if your 20 years
of clinical experience is justadjusting, then I'm sorry.
But don't.
If you have someone that youknow, know, if you go to their

(30:03):
bio and you're like, yeah, likeyou know they did training with,
like, if there's, if they're,if they're selling themselves as
a sports chiropractor, whatmakes them a sports chiropractor
?
Because there is a trademarkfor being called a sports
chiropractor and you have to gothrough the board and you know,
take you know certain amount ofhours to be able to use that
title.
Like, do they have that only ordo they have like extra

(30:27):
training?
Have they done like moreseminars?
Have they done like more?
Some of them go and do amaster's in sports medicine.
Some of them do additionalstuff.
If it only says the doctorate,I'm not bashing on them, but
most of the times they only doadjustments and nothing wrong
with that.
But there's a high chancethey're going to try to sell you
a six-month package, okay, andmaybe some supplements, and

(30:49):
maybe some supplements for yourwith with no labs like, yeah,
just take this.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
I don't know what you have, but make you feel better
it is a lot with uh, the thechiropractors on social media,
is they always package with tonsand tons of supplements?

Speaker 2 (31:05):
well, that'll be very cool when you are a dietitian
and you know that's a goodcombination because you can
actually give nutrition advice.

Speaker 3 (31:14):
That's like yeah yeah , I think the cool thing this
this is the scary part InFlorida I can do nutritional
consultations with my license,which is scary Because then
legally you could give nutritionadvice with no nutrition
background, Only what you get inschool, which is like three

(31:36):
classes, which is now that I'mfinishing the master's.
I still don't know anything.
I feel I know less now.
So you know, I think the LDNwill be more of a visual for you
know, for people wheneverthey're like, oh, how do you
know about nutrition, what doyou know?
It's like oh, I have a licenseon that.

(31:58):
I don't want to smack them ontheir face, but it does help a
little bit with like trust Causeit's not like, oh yeah, you're
just a chiro, Like, no, like Iactually did a training, and
that gives a little bit of moretrust and recognition.
But then again, peoplesometimes don't really give a

(32:18):
shit Like you don't know whatyou're talking about.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
Like okay, I'm sorry, my biggest one of my pet peeves
is people will be like like Ithink one of the only protected
things for dietitians is you cangive a meal plan and I have
never in my life like given ameal plan, like I don't know any
dietitians who do give mealplans, so like that's not what

(32:43):
we want.
That's not the protection thatright you know.
Like three people are like ohwell, I don't give meal plans
and it's like, well, okay, yeah,I, I think that's one thing.

Speaker 3 (32:50):
I get a lot.
It's like, oh, we're gonna do ameal plan.
It's like, well, not really, Iwant to control your calories.
If you want to lose weight, um,and I want you to, you know,
control your calories and behappy doing it, not be miserable
, that's for sure.
I think one thing I always tellthem is give me a list of
things you hate and things youreally love, and that will help

(33:12):
me like okay, then, if you'reokay taking these things out,
let's add these things in um andlet's give them a guide.
You know, you do have to havediscipline, like, you need to
have some form of of disciplineand consistency if you want to
see results, um.
But if you're just like, oh, Ieat whole foods, okay, cool, I,

(33:36):
I eat healthy, everything'sorganic, okay, cool, doesn't
mean anything, you're stillovereating your calories, that
works you might be meeting moreof your micronutrients, but you
will not lose weight oh, yeah, ahundred percent, I think that's
.
I think that's the biggest thingI've seen with people is that

(33:57):
they'll come like oh, I eathealthy, I healthy, I eat so
better.
Like I'm exercising, I was likewell, exercise is 10% of weight
loss.
The other big percentage comesfrom what you eat.
So we need to know how muchyou're eating.
And sometimes it's and I don'tknow if this happened to you,
susanna, but it has happened tome that when I tell them to give

(34:18):
me like a, like a, you know,because I sometimes tell like
okay, take me a picture of thestuff you use on a daily basis,
or give me a list of the thingsyou use on a daily basis.
And sometimes it's just minorstuff, like salad dressings.
Oof, people would go it's likeI eat healthy, but they just
drum like a cup of a dressingand that alone you have 200

(34:42):
calories in that salad where youcould have probably changed for
something a little more lighter, still enjoy the salad, still
enjoy the flavor and still getyour goals.
Or you know, switch your normalsoda to a zero, you cut down
150 calories from that and youstill quench your satisfaction.
So sometimes these very tinythings at least that's what I've

(35:06):
seen so far?
How?
What about yourself, from yourpersonal experience?

Speaker 2 (35:10):
yeah, I think.
Well, you're definitely right.
I think a lot of people don'tunderstand the portions that
they're using for things likepeanut butter and like oil and
dressing, and I personally, likeI don't want people.
I've also worked with a lot ofpeople who are too, you know,
fixated on that.
So it's hard, like you don'twant to, I don't want people
always measuring, but if you canmeasure a couple times to get a

(35:33):
better idea, like, oh, I amhaving like six tablespoons of
peanut butter, not two, that'sthat's helpful.
But then I also will seepatients where you know exactly
what the problem is and it'sjust like 80 ounces of mountain
dew and gas station food andyou're like, oh well, sometimes

(35:53):
it's pretty strong gamers, butthat sounds like a gamer
probably hey, not to besponsored.

Speaker 3 (36:01):
But you know, hold on , get a sponsorship.
I don't know, you know, um, butI yeah, I think, and honestly I
think the cool thing is thesame journey that I'm embarking
with my patients.
I'm embarking on myself, so alot of the things I'm doing it
myself so I can understand theirstruggles, because I never

(36:21):
measured, never did anythinglike that.
So now that I'm losing weightas well, my fiance is losing
weight as well.
We're like damn, we were overeating crap before, like healthy
things, like when we were likedoing like French fries or like
sweet potato fries and we neverread the package.
And you see, like oh, oh, 80grams is 140 calories and you

(36:43):
throw 80 grams into like the cup, into the measure.
It's like four french fries.
Like damn, holy crap.
Like yeah, I think it was whenwas, I think it was friday.
I was making like a like uh, oh,my god, I made some supreme
fries with just like um, beef,ground beef and stuff, and I was

(37:04):
like measuring everything.
I was like, damn, this ismiserable.
Like I was like easilyovereating, like this three
times before, and I and that'sthe problem with a lot of people
as well they're like, oh, it'show.
It's organic, it's healthy,it's whole food.
I'll just chug it in, let's doit, yeah.
And then they end up, you know,getting weight, obesity,

(37:28):
diabetic, heart issues and theother thing that perplexes me
when I think of salad dressing.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
We'll have some like kids who are just underweight,
trying to prevent malnutritionand coaching parents on how to
add calories, and they'll belike well, they go through like
a bottle of ranch dressing everyweek and you just can't figure
out how you could add morecalories.
So it's like for some people itfeels like they're eating
nothing and they're not losingweight.

(37:53):
And then other people they'reeating so much and you're like
that's.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
so that's a really good point.
That is a really hard point.
I would say it is a little moredifficult how to add them when
they're heavily malnourishedversus being in a deficit,
because deficit is prettystraightforward, like increased
protein, increased fiber andsatiety is a little higher.

(38:19):
Satiety is a little higher, butthen when you have to increase
it, it's like how do I do thiswithout causing you know
discomfort?
Yeah, it can get tricky.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
I think that's usually when somebody's under
eating.
There's a reason for that theycan't eat enough calories
comfortably and with kids.

Speaker 2 (38:38):
I don't want to teach them that they need to have
like butter and sugar andeverything, but also like those
are great ways to add calories.

Speaker 3 (38:46):
So it's, it's a balance yeah I would say, um,
damn, I I haven't had anyonethat I needed to increase, but I
did have someone, still havesomeone that was under eating
and she didn't notice and shewas not losing weight, but she
was eating below her BMR so herbody was not even functioning

(39:09):
correctly.
It didn't have enough energy.
So once I did like I did I thisfirst time, I did like a
template for her, so I said, hey, this is like an idea, this is
not for you to follow, this islike roughly.
And when she started likecounting like calories
throughout the day, she's like,oh my God, I was under eating
about 700 calories.
So she ate 700 calories more tobe in a deficit according to

(39:33):
her measurements, and now shefeels better, starting to lose
weight.
And it's crazy how sometimespeople you know heavily under
eat and it becomes like that.
Um, I mean, that is a form ofeating disorder, not quite
bulimia or orthorexia, but it isa like.
It is a a rising of a heavyeating disorder.

Speaker 2 (39:56):
If you don't pick it up quick yeah, I mean it's hard
for your body to function whenyou're, you know, 1200 calories
and like you shouldtheoretically be losing weight,
but you probably aren'tmaintaining a lot of lean body
mass.
You probably feel like crap allthe time, so you probably don't
want to All these peoplepushing 1200 calorie diets.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Why are we still doing this?

Speaker 3 (40:19):
Because no one has that yet that I know of.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
Yeah, I'm trying to.
I'm sure there's got to be notfrom 1200 calories.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
I mean you could I mean, I think what pisses me off
is there's so much freedom inopinions that hurt people and
there's zero accountability, butthen me and Susanna do a
misstep and we can lose ourwhole license, we can get fined,

(40:48):
we can do jail Like it can getnasty real quick.
And it's very unfair for thepeople who, like, have spent a
lot of money, have spent a lotof time to just be able to
properly help someone and thenwe might, you know, do a stumble
, ended up hurting the person,not because it was intentional,

(41:09):
but you know it happened, andnow everything goes to crap.
And then these people are likeconstantly making a disorder,
constantly creating problems,disorder constantly getting
crazy.

Speaker 1 (41:19):
It's crazy like the amount of times we've called out
bobby for um, for having, like,different connections to the
food, not declaring them, allthis stuff, contradictions, all,
all everything, and he has seenno consequence to that.
He still has a million,whatever followers, he's, still

(41:41):
making millions of dollars he's,and then but but you guys are
the problems, you know, becauseyou want to get that one misstep
all of a sudden well, and we'reclearly being paid right yeah,
by big food and big everything Iwish I, that is such a I.
I freaking hate that how we'reall paid by Big Food.

(42:03):
Meanwhile, all the grifters areliterally being paid by Big
Food.

Speaker 2 (42:09):
And that's you asked what comments.
You know what's the worstcomment?
I feel like those are the mostconsistent, like oh yeah, oh
yeah.
Things where you just.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
Yeah, I think one time I got it was this guy who
was heavily promoting thecarnivore diet.
I was like, well, technicallythis was invented more like an
elimination diet to check forany like triggers and should be
long, should be done, supervisedby you know health professional

(42:39):
for short term to see, seewhat's your you know gluten
sensitivity or whatever'scausing your triggers.
You're doing it for five years.
You know your body's going tostart to go into chaos mode.
And man, the amount of hatecomments I get on, just like
posts like that, because, like I, you know himself what paul

(42:59):
saladino himself could not dofive years like I don't know, no
kidding

Speaker 1 (43:04):
I don't know.
It's like I love that thatfreaking paul saladino failed
the car, mr dr carnivore himselffailed carnivore diet and
people are still using him as aa figurehead of the carnivore
movement.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
And again, no consequences there, which I want
to respect, the fact that headmitted that there was a
problem, but also it's not thesame as what Sarah did.

Speaker 1 (43:32):
It's very different.
He admitted there's a problem,yet he knew there was a problem
and he was selling his bookwhile he knew there was a
problem.

Speaker 3 (43:39):
Right right knew there was a problem and he was
selling his book while he knewthere was a problem right, right
, did you saw that video that heposted like the the
animal-based pasta and it wasjust fucking, it was just
squashed.
Like I'm like what about thisis animal-based?
Um, like I'm trying tounderstand, I don't.
I don't think you were likehunting the squash and you kill

(44:03):
it.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
I don't think that I don't know.
I think Paul was probably outthere with his spear hunting
that squash.

Speaker 3 (44:12):
Every time that video comes up from someone reacting,
I'm like I just don't get it,Like how?
And the thing is, people stillbelieve it.

Speaker 2 (44:21):
That's the sad part bringing the coconut on a plane.
Did you see that one?

Speaker 3 (44:25):
oh my god, that you think that these things are
satire because no, they'regenerally happening but actually
he's read the recommendation tobring a coconut on an airplane
and then I don't know who, Idon't know who did a reaction to
it.
I don't remember who was saidokay, how are you gonna open it?
Like you have to have somethinghard, like what are you bashing

(44:49):
it with, though he did heanswered that yes, and I was.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
It just like a metal straw or something I don't know,
which makes me feel like thoseshouldn't be allowed through tsa
anymore right.

Speaker 1 (45:00):
Apparently he can bring a metal straw that's
strong enough to just puncture acoconut, but I can't bring a
nail file.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
I have to look up what he said to that, because he
did come up with something.

Speaker 3 (45:13):
I think for me, the videos that really piss me off
the most are the ones that arein grocery stores, but not the
ones like they're, like you know, half naked, just randomly shot
him, but the ones that godirectly to like random people
and just start like bashingthrough like their food
selection oh yeah there's oneway to like be educational and

(45:35):
be like hey, you know if youneed any help.
Cool, cool, but like onerecorded patient, like that
person never consented to that.
Second, you don't know thesocial economics status of that
person, you know.
Three, you don't know what'sgoing on with their life.
You don't know if they're.
You know, god forbid they dosomething to themselves after
that.
You know, you don't know ifthey're going through a massive

(45:56):
depression.
They're very suicidal.
There's a lot of things thatyou need to put into perspective
and I think me being heavy intolike mental health.
For me, that really pisses meoff, because if someone like
goes into my grocery list likeand sees my, my, um coke zeros
and like oh, you're gonna die,I'm gonna punch him in the

(46:16):
throat like I'm enjoying my cokezero.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
My god, I'm sorry yeah, and I think, like working
with a lot of weird medicalconditions, you realize that
like there's a time and placefor almost everything, there are
times where I have, like oldpeople to eat, food I never
would have thought I ever wouldhave recommended.
So I mean, for some of ourpatients we have like plans in

(46:39):
case to keep them out ofcatabolism, we'll have them mix
Gatorade with sugary powder.
It's like pure sugar, justinfusing them with pure sugar.
And if someone were to bash theGatorade that they had, it's
medically necessary, I don'tknow.

Speaker 1 (46:59):
Yeah, that's I was about to say.
If we go back to theconversation about how these
people, they aren't being heldaccountable because they aren't
making them do anything.
They're not prescribinganything.
It's just the person issupposedly doing it of their own
accord to not eat things thatwould otherwise be helpful,

(47:25):
based on their conditions.
Maybe you know they'restruggling to get food in.
Um, maybe they're poor andyou're convincing them to buy
more expensive things.
You are significantly loweringtheir quality of life.
Yeah, yep.

Speaker 3 (47:42):
Which is a form of uh , I don't know, I can't even
think straight now.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
I um that.
I don't know if you guys sawthe podcast episode with um the
another, dr Mike and Andrea love, and then it was Dr.

Speaker 1 (48:00):
Mike's.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
There are too many Dr Mike's for sure.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
yeah, I think I'm the only michael, though, because I
know that I think that theother one is mikhail, I think,
because he's russian, I think,and the one that's jack, it's
also russian.
So russian, I think.
The phd one exercise physiologymike is rital.
Yes, I don't know if he'sMichael, maybe I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
Anyway, anyway, so there was a point where she was
saying so she she Ailey Cohen islike a rheumatologist and he
was certainly not like she was alittle bit more on the
pseudoscience side, but I don'tthink she really realized that
she like was pretty ethical,don't think she really realized

(48:45):
that she like was pretty ethicaland I don't know.
Anyways, she was saying shedidn't recommend a bunch of
supplements or testing for, like, autoimmune disorders.
She just recommended thatpeople take the money they would
have spent on those supplementsand buy organic.
And all hell broke loose on thepodcast episode.
But I was thinking I was likewell, what would I tell people

(49:06):
to spend that money on, likethat extra money?
And then I was like most peopledon't have extra money that
they would use to buy organicversus supplements or like the
assumption that there is extramoney is probably where we're
going wrong with all of that.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
That's yeah.
Yeah, see, I'm beneficial inthat living in canada thing.
I can be like, yeah, go getyour lab work done, it's free
for us, but that's not somethingthat, uh, you guys have no I
mean I guess insurance mightcover it.
That's, you're digging into thewhole insurance thing down
there yeah, it's.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
It's tricky to get some things covered, like even
like vitamin d, which we're alldeficient in.
It's hard to get that covered.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
I don't know I usually tell people to okay,
because I can see the cashprices sometimes on labs, and I
just tell them because sometimessome insurances will tell you
like, oh, that's going to beyour end of, like your
deductible copay and sometimes,if it's going to be
astronomically different thanjust paying it out of pocket,

(50:11):
just pay it out of pocketbecause sometimes a cbc it's
four dollars.
You know, like sometimesthey're, sometimes they're
pretty cheap, but they don'ttell you that.
I think that's one thing Ialways tell people.
Ask your insurance carrier whatis the copay and deductible?
If it's less than what the cashpay is, go for it.

(50:31):
But if it's going to be $100,$300 more than paying the cash,
pay cash, you're still going toend up paying that amount of
money.
Why not save yourself $200 andput it in something else?
I don't know?

Speaker 2 (50:48):
That is crazy, that you can just go get labs though.

Speaker 3 (50:50):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
Free Unreal.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
That's a US problem that needs to be solved.
You guys don't have access tothis.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
Yeah, yep that could be like a three-hour podcast
episode Well if you want to talkabout insurance.
The reason why I don't takeinsurance is because I just got
a.
I saw a picture of a colleagueof mine that she took insurance.
It seems like I'm just notgoing to take insurance anymore.
She got paid.
I don't remember the carrier,I'm not going to mention it

(51:22):
either way.
Um, she got paid 64 cents.
She got a check for 64 cents,for a month of treatment 64
cents.
And people ask why some peopledon't take insurance.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
It's because we don't get paid I know in wisconsin
like medicaid doesn't reimburseum medical nutrition therapy.
There might be like a fewcircumstances, but like
certainly not for any of thethings I treat um which the
hospital just like eats the costand the government is the
hospital so, indirectly,medicaid is paying.

(51:58):
It's just a really stupidsystem.
But it's know crazy to me thatpeople really want to focus on
nutrition but also don't theywant to scale back the resources
we have to you know, fund it,and I guess we've slowly drifted
into politics.

Speaker 1 (52:15):
But yeah, it's crazy to me that a lot of the same
people that fall for the Bobbiesand all that, you will see they
will often be right wing votersthat want to get rid of public
health care, that want to getrid of all these things, or

(52:36):
maybe they don't necessarilywant to get rid of it, but
they're voting.
I'm talking about rights andstuff is, of course, I always
get the oh, you're just aliberal.
I'm not a liberal, I'm not aconservative, I am not a
political party.
I don't identify as a politicalparty.
I identify as a voter, voter.

(53:08):
It is my job to look at theplatforms of everybody involved,
to look at what is actuallygoing to be most beneficial,
regardless of what their name is, and I think people really need
to start doing that.

Speaker 2 (53:16):
Stop identifying as a political party, start actually
looking into their politicalstances and all and their plans
and stuff, regardless of whattheir fucking name is and
regardless of what they'resaying, like, look at the policy
that they're voting for,because that's where we're
getting into trouble right nowis people are saying one thing

(53:38):
and then their policy iscompletely different yeah I
agree, yeah, I definitely agreeyeah, little, little clap,
little clap just like a massiveoverwhelm hanging over all of
that thinking about that topicbut it's, it's.

Speaker 3 (53:54):
It is crazy because you know now there's, you know
there's bigger voices which kindof captivated more people,
which kind of makes our jobharder in a lot of aspects.
Still haven't had anything Likecurrently that lady with the

(54:15):
C-dolls in the intake farm hasbeen the only one since two
months ago.
So hopefully, fingers crossed,that's the only one since two
months ago, so hopefully,fingers crossed, that's the last
one, um, but I willoccasionally will get you know,
especially, you know, doingbusiness meetings and networking
.
I will hear some stuff andsometimes it's just not the best

(54:36):
time to just, like, you know,be educational.
Sometimes you're just going tobe like cool and just like back
away because it's not the righttime, although I want to like to
always have like a powerpointpresentation for every time I
travel and just have a pocket,you know, um just have a little
fold-out screen you pull out ofyour pocket.
Yeah, like six by five, like,okay, tell me about cedars, um,

(55:00):
but but actually that's.
It's interesting because thisthis semester I'm doing my
thesis and my original topic wasgoing to be depressions and
performance across athletes,because that's what I work with
the most.
And like two weeks in, I'm likeI hate my topic, I hate it so
much I don't want to do it.
And then I email my professor.

(55:20):
I was like, hey, dr Jim, I hatemy thesis, I'm going to do it.
And then I email my professor.
I was like, hey, dr jim, I hatemy thesis, I'm gonna change it
right now.
And he's like, okay, I was likethis is my and I change it to
like misinformation and how thataffects people.
So I feel more, um, passionateabout that one, because it's
something that you know, I'mbattling in a daily basis and

(55:40):
there's not a lot of informationabout it as well.
Like there's like now, I thinksince 2023's not a lot of
information about it as well.
Like there's like now, I thinksince 2023 there's a lot of
research arising with thatmisinformation and I think
that's a pretty cool topic.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
Yeah, the um, a lot of people don't realize.
Again, with the, the bobbies inthe world, they defend them,
saying they're just trying tohelp people and it's like, but
what is that help actually doing?
What is that misinformationactually doing to them,
especially in the long term?

Speaker 2 (56:09):
And some people really believe what they're
doing.
But I feel like people likethat have been called out so
many times with very logicallike I mean, imagine how many
times he's been stitched bypeople with reasonable arguments
and to not reflect on that istelling like and I understand.
People fall for misinformation,like we all do.

Speaker 1 (56:27):
That's understandable , but to stick with it for years
and just ignore every singledoctor or dietician or anybody
that's come stitch them and beenlike no, actually there's this
and this.

Speaker 3 (56:41):
I have a genuine question can the company sue
bobby, the ones that are he'stalking bad too?
Is that a thing, uh?
Now that I think about how thatworks I know because like he
bashes in so many like companies, like big companies who are
putting the name of the companyback, you know is there like a

(57:05):
loophole, that you know becausethere's like so many like big,
like agencies and corporationsthat he bashes and then he
promotes his stuff which isgetting paid, like I feel like I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
I mean, I honestly would hope that we would all be
able to continue to like,support or not support products
with passion, without lawsuits.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
But you're right, there could be defamation or
like I don't know I, I see yourpoint, yeah, I get it, because
there's there's a lot ofcompanies that especially I
would say it.
Because there's there's a lotof companies that especially, I
would say, in the sports world,there's a lot of companies that
will promote like electrolytestuff and when you see the
ingredients, it's like well,that sucks, especially with

(57:54):
ingrid, and I'm not going toname any, any of them, but there
is one particular one that'spretty big and when you see the
ingredient, it's like this isnot even like baby, like like
dosages, like how is this athing?

Speaker 1 (58:08):
right, it still gets sold and still gets sponsored by
many, many people I think thething with bobby getting sued
would be, um, he would have tomake a false claim about the
product, about about one oftheir ingredients or something
that the company can solidlypresent factual data that he

(58:32):
made a false claim, which that'shard to do, since a lot of the
science around nutrition isstill in the space of we're
still researching everything.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
so I don't think it's not like.
The products he calls out arealways like health promoting.
A lot of them are things thatneed to be eaten in moderation
but you know, it's just like howyou plug in, right it's.
It's like toxic versus nothealth promoting.
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (58:59):
I'm big on language, I think it's important, but and
I see when, when, when rob saidabout um, like all they're
helping, like okay, in someshape or form.
I could see it in terms of likeyou can overeat this easy,
which can increase calories,blah, blah.
But I think the statement iswrong because you're completely

(59:23):
victimizing something and thensubstituting for something else
which probably has the sameamount of dosage and calories as
the other one, and you canovereat it as well.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
It's just double, triple the price, yeah and then
I think, people actually don'tgive enough weight, to the
degree that eating disorders arelike rising and I think a lot
of it is just fear about likethere's what?
What are you even supposed toeat?
Everything is terrible for youyeah, well, there's.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
That's a lot of the comments you see on those videos
.
Is people getting frustrated?
What am I even supposed to eatnow?

Speaker 3 (59:57):
I've gotten frustrated, like as a dietitian
I've been like I'm sooverwhelmed when you know I was
like that before, I would saybefore, when I was in chiro
school.
I was like that.
I was like obsessed with likeoh, it has to be organic, I
can't eat that.
You know, I got, I got veryorthorexic and it was not
helping me.
And it wasn't until I startedthe masters that I was like oh

(01:00:20):
wait, and that's right.
That's almost around the sametime I started seeing like Rob,
liam, dr, it's Johnny, like I've, like all these people.
That's like oh wait, it's justnot correct.
I've been not reading theresearch, right, and there you
go.

Speaker 2 (01:00:37):
That is, I'd say, the strength of like Rob Liam
doctor.
It's just like calms theanxiety a little bit and helps
you put your brain back on andlike.
You're like oh I need to likequestion all of this and I mean
I theoretically should know that.
But there are also things youtalk about that aren't nutrition
related.
They're like other chemicalsand stuff where it's helpful to

(01:01:02):
have a perspective that iscalming.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
I tell people that we're walking balls of chemical
reactions, which is technicallytrue.
We're just chemical reactionshappening all the time.
That's how we function.
So when people say, oh, it's achemical, okay, which chemical?
Oh, it just has chemicals, like, well, everything has chemicals
.
What are we talking about?
And usually that is enough forpeople to be like oh, you know

(01:01:30):
my mom is oh yeah.
My mom is.
She's a manager at a gym andshe sees a lot of these people
like very, like heavy, like likeseed oils and all that stuff.
And it's funny because shewould call me like on random
days like, hey, mike, I heardthis in the gym, is this true or

(01:01:51):
this is bs?
And it's like the most cutestthing because it's like my mom
just asking me like no, mom,that's, that's bullshit, it's
that doesn't work, it's not howtell me.
It's like no, because thishappens, because this this, this
, this, this and this goes hereand she goes okay, cool, and
then like three weeks goes byand then some person comes in
saying similar things.
She goes no, that doesn'thappen.

(01:02:11):
Because he goes this, this,this, this, this, she's become a
nutrition expert and she's likesometimes she's like talking
with like the coaches and thecoaches would say something.
She goes no, that's not how ithappens.
So it's very nice to see my momgetting to know so much.

Speaker 1 (01:02:30):
Shout out to Mama.

Speaker 3 (01:02:31):
Mike.

Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
She's awesome.
She's the best, for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
That's good that she retains all of it.

Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
Oh yeah, she randomly sent me a video like, is this
BS?
And I'm like, like it is, butthere's some good information in
that bs, but it's mostly bs.
But she goes okay, cool, that'spretty, it's pretty nice, um,
and my older sister's the sameway.
My older sister's like, hey,like she's very into, like, um,
like heavy lifting.
She's like, is this real, thisbullshit, like bullshit.

(01:03:00):
And she's like, okay, cool, shegoes away.
So it's, it's cool that you knowit has come to that point that,
um, you know, none of my atleast my, my mom, my two sisters
, they don't have that, thateating disorder.
They can enjoy the food and addwhat they need, you know, and
be healthy and take care oftheir mental health, like I
think that's it makes me happybecause, as as the son or the

(01:03:23):
other brother that's, you wantto see your family well, right,
yes, and not go into that chaosof, like you know, mental
disease and everything.
Because you know we've all hadall my family members, like my
sisters and my mom and I.
We've all been throughdepression heavily.
So it's nice and fresh to seethat there's no eating disorder,

(01:03:46):
you know, with none of my, mytwo sisters and my mom.
They're pretty and they all,you know, exercise.
You know my mom exercises three, four times a week at the gym.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
So you know my mom is pretty healthy, so that's
pretty cool makes me happy beingable to be in the health space
and thinking of it as fuelingand, you know, not being so
dogmatic oh yeah, sometimes Iget a call like hey, I need to
prepare this protein shake, butI need some help, like, is there

(01:04:17):
any tips you can make ittastier?

Speaker 3 (01:04:19):
it's the I sometimes like she calls me on the face
like, hey, how do you make yourovernight oats?
Like I want to do like you?
It's like okay, mom, so it'sit's, it's cool.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
It's it's it's a cool moment for sure it's great too,
Cause like being taking part inyour family has been going
through stuff and a lot of.
Actually, I think all of hisfriends have died to this point.

(01:04:48):
I think he's the last personalive, and part of the reason
that he is still alive iscontributed to me and my sisters
taking active roles in hishealth.

Speaker 2 (01:05:00):
Yeah, definitely having advocates around you or
just people involved.
Supporting your health is agree, yeah, it's, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:05:11):
It's very important.
Um, you know and I think mentalhealth it's a big contributor
to all that um, I just got atext, like literally like when
we started the podcast, mysister's in medical school right
now, um, she's not in clinicalrotations, but she's like almost
there, and she just told me,hey, I'm gonna take a semester

(01:05:32):
off, like my mental health islike shit and I'm like, I'm very
proud of you, like I I know howdifficult that is and you know,
if you feel like you reallyneed it, it doesn't make you
less of a person, it doesn'tmake you less of a future doctor
.
It actually makes you better,right?

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
It does.
I think more people need to.
I mean, that would be so hardto make that decision and we
have to change the way that likemedical students and residents
are treated A hundred percent.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
That, like, medical studentsand residents are 100, yeah, 100

(01:06:10):
.
That's why.
That's why doctors aren't solike, that's why they're
dismissive and rough, becausethey've been traumatized in this
horrible I know it's it is.

Speaker 3 (01:06:18):
It is pretty crazy like before I I moved here from
Puerto Rico to do the doctorate.
I I was burnt out because mywhen I was in third year of
college, my dad passed away froma heart attack so I took a lot
of the mantle you know familyand helping out.
So it took a heavy toll on meand a four-year degree took six

(01:06:41):
years because obviously I tookit very slow and mentally I was
not well.
So I wanted to take a year offbefore I went to school and
maybe get a job or something,some part-time whatever, just to
have something.
And every single person told medon't do it.
Every single person told medon't do it, you're going to,
don't do it, you're gonna gocall, you're gonna start all

(01:07:02):
that stuff.
And then I remember, um, thesister of one of my close
friends.
She took a year off and she's apsychologist and I called her.
I'm like you're the only personI know that has taken a year
off.
I need your perspective, likeyou're, like I need your
personal opinion.
And she goes are youanxious-ish?

(01:07:23):
Are you mentally drainedheavily?
It's like you're still goingthrough that stuff, even though
it's been a couple years.
Right, it's like, yeah, yeah,take the whole year, just take
it.
Forget about what people say,take the whole year.
And I took the year in July, gota job at a retail store a
couple hours a week, and then, Ithink the year in July, got a
job at a retail store, you know,a couple hours a week, and then

(01:07:45):
, I think it was in March I wasplanning to go in June and it
was in March 2019, 2019 that Iwoke up and I'm like I'm ready,
I'm ready to leave, I'm ready tostart, like I'm ready, I'm
ready to leave, I'm ready tostart, like I'm ready and I and
I am.
For me, the whole degree was abreeze because I was already

(01:08:06):
such in a good head space thatif I would have done it a year
before, I probably would havehated it, I wouldn't enjoy it at
all and I wouldn't have met myfiance.
That's a big part, veryimportant part Wouldn't have met
Tatiana.
So that's a big, big part aswell.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
Small class.

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
Lesson learned here Take your mental health time
when you need it 100%.

Speaker 3 (01:08:29):
Yeah, there's a quick saying and I'll probably leave
with that because I have toleave One of my best friends.
He always says he used it as anexcuse to buy cosmetics at
games Not the right way to thinkabout it, but he would always
say if you look good, you wouldperform good, which, technically
, if you, if you relay it tolike more health stuff, you feel

(01:08:52):
good, you perform better.
So that's for me, that's a bigadvocate you feel better.
If you feel good, you can dobetter.
And if you do better, you canactually excel what you want to
excel, which is why 1200 caloriediets don't work.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
You don't feel good, you can do better, and if you do
better, you can actually excelwhat you want to excel.
Which is why 1,200 caloriediets don't work.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
No, because you don't feel good and don't use it to
buy micro-transactions in games.
It's not how it works either.
That skin is not going to makeyou work better.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
Okay, so where can everybody find you two?
Go ahead, Susanna.

Speaker 2 (01:09:17):
I am on TikTok and Instagram and threads on TikTok
and Instagram and threads isSusanna Richie RD.

Speaker 3 (01:09:25):
Small, small clap Me.
Honestly, I'm more active inInstagram in the practice, so
not really mine.
So like move forward Cairo ineverything like TikTok,
instagram, facebook.
That's where we're most active.
I promise I'll start beingactive in tech talk more.
I just need, I just need time.

Speaker 2 (01:09:46):
It does take some time.

Speaker 3 (01:09:48):
I am heavily active in my practice Instagram.
We post daily there.
So at least there you can, forsure you know, send a message
and it's going to be meanswering.

Speaker 1 (01:09:58):
So If you're looking for a Mike certified
chiropractor the only one thegroup trusts.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
Well, thank you for coming on.
No, yeah, thank you for havingme, it was awesome.

Speaker 1 (01:10:10):
So before we leave, what do you hate most about liam
?

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
since he's not here, we can talk behind his back that
he doesn't like he can get awaysaying he has like the
friendliest disposition, sohe'll say something like sassy
and he doesn't sound sassy,you're just like oh, that was a
nice video.

Speaker 3 (01:10:28):
I resent that because I cannot do that he just needs
to eat more cottage cheese,that's all.
He just needs to have ice creamcottage cheese, that's that's
all high protein.

Speaker 1 (01:10:39):
Well, secret, secretly, I'm.
I'm glad we got rid of them.
So, everybody, don't be yourworst.
Put your brain back on and takesome time for yourself if you
need it.
Small claps, small claps.