EvidenceNutrition: Fear-Mongering, Fact-Checking, and Finding Truth in Nutrition

What drives nutrition experts up the wall? In this candid, unfiltered conversation with EvidenceNutrition (Edin), Liam, and Rob dive deep into the most frustrating myths and misconceptions plaguing the nutrition space today.

The gloves come off as they tackle head-on the absurdity of claims like "pomegranates make your breasts perkier" while breaking down why study methodology matters and why some claims are too ridiculous to even warrant scientific investigation. Through equal parts exasperation and humor, they expose the tactics used by content creators who prioritize engagement over accuracy.

From the demonization of carbohydrates—"the primary energy source of the body"—to unfounded fears about seed oils and diet sodas, the conversation reveals how nuanced nutritional science gets flattened into misleading black-and-white narratives on social media. For Edin, who lives with Type 1 diabetes, these mischaracterizations aren't just annoying—they can be potentially dangerous.

The episode takes a fascinating turn when the three break down the exact formula for creating viral fear-mongering content: take a beloved product, claim it contains something "banned in Europe," create a shocking visual, and watch the views roll in regardless of accuracy. This insider perspective helps listeners develop a critical eye for the content they consume.

Perhaps most revealing is their discussion about creator integrity and brand deals, where they share stories about declining lucrative offers from companies whose products they couldn't honestly endorse. It's a rare glimpse into the ethical challenges nutrition content creators face in an industry where financial incentives can sometimes encourage compromise.

Want to cut through the noise and understand which nutrition claims deserve your attention? This episode delivers equal parts entertainment and education from three creators committed to evidence over engagement.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Dude, it's so funny and I would love to hear your
guys' thoughts on this, becauseI feel like we make
predominantly similar content.
I do, however, want to creditto Rob on.
I really like his take ontexture-based reviews of things.
First of all, that's fuckingiconic.
I just like it's one of thosethings that, when you did it, I
was like that makes so muchsense.

(00:20):
Why don't more people do that?
But nobody does so.
Anyway, I appreciate them, butI digress.
What I was getting into was Ithink it's really incredible how
you just start by being likeyou know, I'm going to make a
video about you because whatyou're saying doesn't make sense
.
And then, all of the negativecomments aside, you're like well

(00:41):
, this person is also makingvideos that don't make sense.
I'm going to correct that andI'm going to correct this piece
of misinformation.
I'm going to correct this.
And then, all of a sudden,you're like well, in Liam's case
, you've got a whole host offollowers and you're like damn
now what I say and in all of ourcases I'm not trying to take
away from neither of us, rob normyself but it's like you really

(01:02):
have to there's an expectationbehind what you say.
I think your voice carriessomething which is weird.
I'm still coming to terms withthat.
But to your point, it's stillthe same level of planning, like
on the back end it's still theexact same, like nah, I don't,
that's misinformation.
I'm going to talk about thatand try to explain that in a way
that me an idiot willunderstand.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
So Right, I mean I have pretty much given up and I
just call them numpties and likelaugh about it and tell them
great word, because yeah, I, I,I'm a big Muppets guy.
Yeah, I don't give a shit likeanymore.
I don't care about like.
I'm not going to decide tostudy.
No, fuck you.
What you're saying is stupid.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
Almost listening knows it's stupid, so we're just
gonna laugh at how stupid, ohgod.
In in my recent video about the, the synthetic vitamins, yeah,
it's somebody asking me for astudy proving my point.
And I'm like you.
You need a study, yeah, yeah,to learn that vitamins have no
calories.
Are you serious right now?

Speaker 2 (01:57):
oh, one of my top comments on a video that one
woman that's, like my dad's, thehighest paid nutritionist in
the state of and she and shejust does the most wild shit and
I just said no, no, no.
That was my whole video, wasjust saying no.
And I had people like, whywon't you refute their claims?
She just said eatingpomegranates will make your tits
perkier.
I'm not going to cite a studyon that.

(02:18):
No, just no.
That is my response.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
On a serious note, I don't know if we're recording
right now, but for people to getvalue from just thinking about
that, how would you study that?
What is a marker that you wouldlike to first pick?
Get your target audience ofpeople and then start
force-feeding them, pomegranate,and somehow controlling, and
then you'd have to control forthe other variables right, and

(02:42):
then all the data collection andpaying all of the people to be
able to do this, because youknow government grants don't
exist anymore.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
So, like um, yeah, hello and welcome to, in
moderation, where we're talkingabout how pomegranates can make
your tits perkier, because mydad is the highest paid
nutritionist, or do you have apanel that comes in and judges
them?

Speaker 1 (03:01):
yeah, is it.
Is it by hand feel?
Is it like do we like you knowhow we judge mouth feel?

Speaker 2 (03:06):
like do it each time right, so we need some control.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
How do you do a double blind placebo double
blind rct of of tip perkinessmeasurement feel to you today a
little bit perkier.

Speaker 2 (03:19):
How much perkier on a scale like I, that's.
Yeah, obviously you havepictures and stuff.
So like I think no, I think wecould we could definitely get
this done for that one guy thatwanted to know about you know
what studies there are aboutpomegranates on making women's
tits perkier?

Speaker 1 (03:35):
yeah, it's.
It's funny that you say that.
I think the moment I, like mybrain was like, okay, like I
used to put in four plus hoursin each video, and I'm sure it's
the same for you guys when,yeah, like for me I'm going to
admit something publicly that Idon't think I've ever admitted.
I don't know if you guys arerecording, but I'll admit it to
you guys, I don't know off thetop of my head.

(03:56):
Every single study, everysingle year it came out Like I
know I've read a study and howit has roughly gone, and then I
will review it.
And so when I see a video I'llbe like, oh, that reminds me of
this study.
I roughly remember how it went,roughly remember.
Maybe I'll remember what schoolit was from, where it was
conducted.
It was Canadian study, americanstudy, chinese, whatever and so

(04:18):
then I'll look it up and thenconfirm the details in the video
.
And so I was doing that too,where I was making four hour
long, it would take me at leastfour hours between you know,
concept, ideation and the actualfilming and editing and
whatever.
So I then realized those.
Actually my brother, who is abusiness guy, kind of told me

(04:41):
nobody gives a fuck, um.
And I was like true, uh, okay,and that was honestly valid
feedback, because I amcommunicating to people like him
, I'm not communicating to jerkmyself off.
And when I got to thatrealization, like it was, it was
honestly that was a reallytough pill for me to swallow,
was like I'm like I used tothink, I was like I'm doing the

(05:03):
right thing by showing them thestudies and I was like, not
realistically, I'm justproviding some mental
masturbation here.
So I decided to transition to,like you said, which was some
when it's like just blatantlyobvious and they're just making
claims and you there's no pointto even cite a study, it's it's
fine to point and laugh, but Istill like to try to make sure

(05:24):
I'm not just launching an adhomonym which actually you do
quite well, liam.
It's like, uh, you'll laughabout the concept without the
person.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
Sometimes the idea is to bring.
So like that's what comedy is,to bring its lot to its logical
conclusion, right, it's it'sextreme.
You just bring it to its extremelike, yes, this is why
americans are unhealthy becausethey're eating too many canned
vegetables.
Do you hear how fucking stupidthat sounds Like you have to.
Just you have to try and showpeople like I'm not.
I don't give a fuck about theactual person Like Jillian

(05:53):
Michaels who gives a shit.
I can't believe people evencare about what she says anymore
.
But like the thing she's saying, I just have to laugh at it
because it's so privileged andabsurd.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
And what else.
Yeah, yeah, uh, jillian, andyou know the whole cast of the
movement currently, but yeah,it's, uh, it's a really, really
interesting world we live in.
By the way, shout out, I don'tknow if you guys can see it, no,
you can't, but I always keepsome, you know, canned soup,
right?

Speaker 3 (06:17):
here shout out to canned soup.

Speaker 1 (06:19):
Well, um, transparency, disclosure I I do
make some posts on behalf of acompany that does white label
canning of fruits and vegetables.
So sometimes, technically, myposts are sponsored by Big Can.
They don't go by that, but I domake it abundantly clear and I

(06:40):
think I'm pretty transparentabout it.
But I know it's important topoint that out.
So that's why I take off thelabel, because they do it for
many companies Right.
So if I share one, it could beparticular.
That's why people are alwayslike wait, who's sponsoring this
?
Whenever it says paid ad,they're always like wait, who's
sponsoring this?
Like big aluminum, and I'm likekind of kind of, but yeah, um,

(07:01):
so.
So that's why I keep themunlabeled.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Rob, do you want to just like start the podcast now,
or do you want to just likeroll shit from that into?

Speaker 3 (07:09):
We're rolling, we're rolling, we're rolling.
That's my question.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
I'm like where are we at with this?
I'm just trying to figure thisout because I have some things I
want to bring up and discuss.
Should we have him introducehimself or should we just go the
whole episode without him doingit?

Speaker 1 (07:23):
at all and people are like who the fuck was that I
don't know.
He never said his name.
Yeah, so I'll introduce myself.
My name is Edin, or you mayknow me online as Evidence
Nutrition.
Still, no idea how I got thatname.
I was just kind of pluggingthings into.
I was at a conference actuallyplugging names into Instagram,
and then I just got it and I waslike cool, that's awesome.
Everyone kept telling me EdinVince Nutrition because my name

(07:46):
is Edin and I'm like, no, no,just evidence, You're
overthinking this guys.
So yeah, and then my friend whomade this sign for me is the
one that was actually trying tomake it Edin Vince Nutrition.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
But thankfully, I convinced him otherwise.
That's a reach.
Holy shit you need to.
I like I need what kind ofshoes you're wearing, because
that's a fucking leap and a halfright there to get.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Yeah, yeah, it's incredible, it's incredible
stuff.
But yeah, I mean, I've alwaysbeen um anti-pseudo science.
I've talked about it on a fewpodcasts in the past, but kind
of the way I got into theindustry for people who are your
listeners but not mine, um, areI.
I have type diabetes, which is,I think, important context, and
so that is also what got meinto nutrition in the first

(08:30):
place, nutrition and dietetics.
I went and did a degree, aBachelor of Applied Science, in
nutrition and dietetics and then, further on, did some
postgraduate work as well insport and exercise, nutrition
and so.
But what got me into itinitially was I don't want to
single out this one experience,but pretty much my going to see

(08:51):
a Chinese medicine doctor, andnow I'm not out here, um, hating
on anyone for any professionthey choose.
There is some science to backsome of the things that they do.
Most of what I went through wasnot backed by science.
It was backed by pse throughwas not backed by science.
It was backed by pseudoscienceand feelings and vibes.
So, uh, that was an expensivelearning lesson for me, because
I don't come from money, I'm notfinancially well off, um, and

(09:15):
so, especially at the time.
You know, obviously, thankfully, I've been okay to make a
living for myself now and I workextremely hard.
I pump out content whileworking full-time.
By the way, full contentcreation is not my full-time gig
.
Um, although I try to do, itCan't really be in Canada, can
it?

Speaker 2 (09:32):
No right, exactly so and and so to which is actually
something is your Canadian?
We cannot leave that out, yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:38):
Yeah, so, um, so anyway, I I kind of got into it.
Because I got into nutrition, Iremember, because I was like so
upset as, like a 16,17-year-old diabetic kid who,
you know, my parents just wantto do everything they can to get
rid of diabetes, right, and Istill understand them right,
like I've talked about this onmany podcasts I'm not saying it

(09:59):
to harp on my parents, and Ithink they know that now.
Harp on my parents and I thinkthey know that now.
But it is important for otherparents, because I know I have a
lot that listen to me, a lot ofparents of diabetics, to know
that, like you don't, you know,sometimes the best thing that
the kid can have is a normalupbringing, because they don't
have a normal upbringing.
I also played, you know, lowerlevel professional tennis.

(10:22):
So I try to balance those twothings.
Nutrition was always kind ofthe thing in between.
So, following that path, I kindof went down the dietetics
route and I always had a thingagainst pseudoscience.
I always hated when peoplemisrepresented things like
marketing is something that I'vealways butted heads with.
Now I've grown to appreciatemarketing, but I look at it

(10:43):
through a very skeptical lens.
So, you know, even when peoplesay, like I had a post the other
day, I was reviewing TrulyCereal.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
It's a protein cereal and I saw that that was an
actual Canadian thing.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, they're a Canadian brand and it was not an
ad, by the way, not an ad, butI did disclose that they sent it
to me for free ad, by the way,not an ad, but I did disclose
that they sent it to me for free.
And so I thought I personallywould like to watch someone
review all of the flavors andwhat they have to say about it.
And I was honest, you know, Isaid that I didn't really like
the chocolate one and it is whatit is Right.

(11:17):
But it was with that that, like, I had a few comments where
people were going, hey, this isexpensive and I go, fair enough,
like it's.
But I also don't see it as likeit's important to see what the
product is Like it's not.
I think that product market is atough one in general, but you
know, protein rich cereals,because you shouldn't, you

(11:38):
shouldn't like, you shouldn't,as the consumer, purchase it as
if it's the same cereal that youbought before, because it's not
the same thing.
But that's how they're marketed.
Right, they're marketed as it'sjust a replacement for cereal.
But let's be real, uh, 15 or 11, depending on how you buy it,
and you know, whatever, 11 and15 versus four or five I mean,

(12:00):
cereal is pretty expensive nowtoo, anyway, but like five or
six dollars, let's say and youget way like the boxes are a
normal size, is like a familysize, like this, and then the
box you get from truly is likeway smaller.
Yeah, um, and I I wastransparent about that, right
like the, the brand was stillhappy with what I said.
The brand was still happy aboutthings.
They got exposure, they gotwhatever they needed.

(12:20):
But, you know, I had a lot ofpeople reaching out about oh
well, they market themselves asbetter for the gut and I go well
, yeah, but that's like a superfun, like I'm.
I'm happy you pointed that out.
Let's have a conversation aboutthat, because did they lie?
No, you know, if it's likelactose free, for example, would
that be better for somebody?
Their product is not lactosefree, but their product was, I

(12:43):
believe it was marketed asgluten-free and therefore better
for some people.
And so they're like well, 50%of the population is lactose
intolerant, but they're notlactose-free and I go, okay,
well, they can still market itas that without appealing to
lactose-free.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
You're definitely into the people are going to
complain about anything part andI just I've gotten to the point
where I'm like past that.
I'm just like, yeah, no, you'rejust gonna, you're gonna be
upset, that's fine.
And like, yeah, protein, I'mnot.
Listen, there's no way.
I'm paying like 10.
Here in the united states,where we don't pay canadian
dollars for things, it's usuallylike 10 dollars yeah, yeah and
there's no way I'm fuckingpaying that shit.

(13:19):
First off, most of them tastelike sawdust.
Have you tried?
Have you tried?
Eat your mouth off cereal?
Eat your mouth.
I want to rip my mouth offafter I taste it.
It is probably the worst thingI've ever put in my mouth and
that is saying something.
It is truly a horrifyingprocess and I paid nearly ten
dollars for get fucked.
I can get protein other places.

(13:40):
Protein, listen, I'd likeprotein support.
It doesn't need to be shoved upthe butthole of every single
product in the store you don'tneed.
You don't need protein cerealit's.
If you want it, sure that'scool.
Go cereal.
I tried it like this is fine.
Still not gonna pay ten dollarsfor it.
No, thank you.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
I agree if you're a professional bodybuilder, but
anyway, that rant over, so Iwant to ask you what is like
because you do like the, thedebunking stuff what's the thing
that you see that pisses what?

Speaker 2 (14:08):
oh, cut now.
Can you hear me?
Can you hear me?
Can you hear me now?
Can you hear?

Speaker 1 (14:11):
me now.
You're good, you're good,you're good, okay, yeah, um, I
want to ask you what's the thing?

Speaker 2 (14:15):
because you do a lot of the debunking things what's
the thing that you see thatyou're like just pisses you off
the most?
When somebody's fear-mongering,a specific ingredient or
whatever it is like, what's thething that just drives you the
craziest?

Speaker 1 (14:27):
well, definitely, where there's like a marketing
incentive and then, no matterwhat you say, they're like I
have a whole bunch of peoplethat'll be like I'm.
You know, I have some sort ofagency paying me to say what I
say.
I think that's probably themost uh, one of the most
annoying things recently, but um, the most annoying ingredient.

Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, like, like.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, like either ingredient or something like or
something like yeah I mean seedoils gets me rubbed the wrong
way a lot, and the reason why Ithink that is is because I quote
, unquote, defend.
I don't defend anything.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
I just want to make that abundantly clear I'm not
defending what you do I actually, actually I'm an advocate for
gallons of seed oils every daythat's what you think I'm
actually the global seedambassador we don't know that
all canadians are in bigcanola's pocket right it's
called canada oil.
That's.
That's right, you clearly, yeah, it's in the name.
For fuck's sake, um so.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
so I think that one's a big one because it's it's
like, like it's a super simpleconcept, but it's nuanced at the
same time, and the one simplebit of nuance that we seem to be
forgetting is like can seedoils be bad?
Yes, when they're reheatedplenty of times, when you
consume a fuckload of them, whenyou like.

(15:41):
There are just these like it'sjust like one step in each
direction and yes, they could bebad, like you jump off the
cliff of bad right but.

Speaker 2 (15:47):
But they're not inherently bad inherently
they're not bad.

Speaker 1 (15:51):
No, and any argument that you want to suggest, it's
like I I literally have like abinder of oh, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
No, no, no, no, no.
No to to the carnivore crowdthat's usually fear mongering
seed oils.
It does not matter if you eatoff a cutting board, you don't
give a shit about research.
Ok, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
They just chat GPT, like everybody just puts my
sources through chat GPT.
And my favorite, by the way, toyou, absolute fucktards who
think that I don't know when youuse chat GPT, dead fucking
giveaway.
I could even tell you whatprompts you used, because it's
usually what are the flaws ofthis study?
That's what they'll copy pasteand then put my pmids in and

(16:31):
then it'll read through it andit's it'll.
Yeah, it'll get some thingsthat are like flaws, but all
studies have flaws, every singleone.
So that's fucking.
So that's another thing thatpeople want to in, like the
cherry picking is like evenwithin the studies that they'll
send.
That's one of the things that Istruggle with the most is like
when somebody seems willing toactually have a discussion but

(16:53):
then their bias actually cloudstheir ability to like have an
argument in good faith.

Speaker 2 (16:59):
When someone has a confirmation bias like that, it
does not matter what you say, soI will initiate me like OK, can
we talk about this?
No, you only care.
Okay, no, I'm done, I don't itdoesn't matter.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, I have a one message limit, man, it's one
message and I know right awaylet me tell you the thing that
pisses me off the most it'scarbs you thought I was gonna
say fucking diet soda all right,it's close, but fucking carbs
holy shit I.
Oh my god, yeah, it's I don'tknow if you have a video
listeners, but my shirt sayshigh carbs, high carbs.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
Sorry about that my bad, no diet, so it's up there.

Speaker 2 (17:32):
I'll get there in a second, but fucking the primary
energy source of the body likethe thing that has kept like how
it's the fucking and like, okay, I get sugar to an agree to a
degree.
Like I understand, a lot ofamericans are over consuming
added sugar and added sugardoesn't come with any real
nutrients outside of just thecalories that it has.

(17:53):
Right, yeah, yeah, so I getthat.
But then to take that's addedsugar.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
We're specifically added sugar.
Added sugar right but like.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
But even then like them just taking all sugar and
just being like, okay, it's bad,like still frustrating, still
don't like yeah, but to thenextrapolate even further and be
like carbohydrates are theproblem, bitch.
Yeah, holy shit, likecarbohydrates.
I, I, I.
It drives me to fucking, itdrives me into insanity,
especially like everything likeoh, potatoes, the moment I talk

(18:22):
about like potatoes, oh, itspikes your insulin, so fucking
whatever right, oh, insulin.
You know the normal responselike you, you fucking should
know, you know I know quite well, actually, it doesn't normally
fucking happen in my body.

Speaker 1 (18:33):
So it's it's uh, every, every time somebody has
that like where they?
First of all, my favorite is uh, because there is a okay you,
you, you tweaked a nerve on thisone.
Actually, a little bit.
It's the uh, the fact whenpeople say, like, when they talk
about insulin responses, yes,and I go no, what you mean to
say is there's a blood glucoseresponse, there's a rise in
insulin.
I'm like, no, what you'retalking about is a blood glucose

(18:55):
response, which then insulin isresponding to, which is fucking
normal, yes, but in my case itdoesn't.
I don't, yeah, doesn't happen.
It's off to the side there inthe other side of the room, but
I have to take an injection andthen it can happen because I use
exogenous insulin, which, ifyou know, which then kind of
appeases that appeal to naturefallacy.

(19:17):
If I eat anything naturally ina large enough quantity, I will
die like anything, literallyanything, if, if I just wanted
to live my life naturally, which, again, that's one where people
try to manipulate specificaudiences, like type one, type
two diabetics, and then they'llsay like, oh yeah, the carnivore
diet, the keto diet, whatever,insert diet here fucking fasting

(19:37):
, and then they're like, didthis help you with your insulin?
And I'm like, uh well, I'malive and my pancreas still
doesn't work, so I don't like no.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
You're in a clear picture that insulin is very
important and that we need it.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Oh, extremely, extremely and like and like.
Thank God, your brain works.
I mean, in the cases of some ofthese people, not very well,
but if they had a few moreinsulin spikes, maybe a lot
better.
But yeah, like, I don't thinkpeople have an insulin
sensitivity problem because theyconsumed beans or because they
consumed rice.

Speaker 2 (20:11):
granted, you could you bring up like beans or
something like oh, that's howyou get diabetes.
Really, really fucking likevegetables and legumes are what
give people diabetes.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
I really I find that hard to believe and and you know
what, and I feel for I justwant everyone to know like,
while I will acknowledge that Ihave a confirmation bias,
perhaps around canned food items, because I have been paid in
the past by a company that makescanned food items, but I seeked
out that engagement financiallybecause I believe in canned

(20:44):
food, canned food products.
I believe in it as a goodresolution for folks that are
struggling with food security,which is something that you're
saying people that have strugglestruggles getting food.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Them getting food is a good thing.
Is what you're saying.
I think so.
Do you disagree?
Just making sure?
I just want to make sure we'reclear on that and like it's, I
think uh, I'm.

Speaker 1 (21:05):
I think I'll have to brush up on the exact statistic
in the US, but I believe it'slike in Canada.
It's over 20% of Canadians facefood insecurity at some point.
I believe it's around 17 to 15,.
17% of Americans have faced atsome point in their life food
insecurity or, um, or not known.

(21:25):
I forget how they word thatstatistic, but again.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
I know statistics are malleable or whatever.
It is the way they yeah wherethey don't know where their next
meal is going to come from.

Speaker 1 (21:32):
So, uh, that's enough for me to be like, okay, yes,
we have an abundance of thesefoods that are like, easy to
over consume.
And, yes, clearly, given thatwe have an obesity problem, we
have a large component ofperhaps hormonal problems,
genetic problems, but also amassive issue with not moving as
much and a massive issue withuh, quite simply put right, I'm

(21:54):
going to remove a little bit ofnuance here, but, quite simply
put, not moving as much andeating more calories than our
energy demands require.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
Listen, where do a lot of the calories come from?
Well, you know, for a lot ofpeople added sugars, but sugar
from things like soda.
So when people then decide togo with a diet soda, that has
essentially zero calories.
No, that shit ain't good enough.
If you're not drinking water,you might as well start your

(22:22):
whole journey over then and justeat fucking steaks off a
cutting board and slather themin avocado.
That's the shit I see, and itjust drives me crazy like.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
You know what.
You know what that makes melaugh about?
Liam is uh, I'll see a lot ofthese comments across our pages.
Uh, anybody that's in the spaceor dr ids too like, and I'll
open it up.
Have you ever opened up theprofile of those folks that are
saying like?
Just drink water, bro, it'salways the just drink water bro
drink water first of all,weaponized religion in the form

(22:52):
of their caption or their bio.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Okay, okay.

Speaker 1 (22:55):
That's all I'm going to say.
I'm not going to say anythingelse.
Some random Bible verse, whichI'm not anti-religion for what
it's worth.
I just think it's a funnycorrelation, not a causation.
Anti-weaponized religion I amdefinitely anti-weaponized
extremism or anti-weaponizedreligion.
I am definitely anti-weaponizedextremism or anti-weaponized
religion, for sure.
Yes, uh, the other one, theother one, almost always.

(23:17):
Oh, hey, that was fun almostalways for all the people
listening.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
We just got balloons.
Yeah, we got balloons.
That was fun.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
Almost always they'll in their like last four or five
pictures which they don't posta lot.
But if they do post on socialmedia in their last four or five
pictures you'll see't post alot.
But if they do post on socialmedia in their last four or five
pictures you'll see them doublefisting a beer and or maybe
optional, hanging a fish too.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
Like it's like these people that say, like don't
drink diet soda, don't do this.

Speaker 3 (23:39):
They often smoke cigarettes and fucking drink
alcohol and you're just likeregularly, yeah, like they're
usually not in the best of shapeascotame is not gonna fucking
take me out, like it tries likeand and and.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
That's another thing that fucking drives me insane.
It's lately I've been talkingabout this.
It's just like oh, stevie isbetter because it's natural, and
like oh, that's just thefucking appeal to appeal to
nature like aspartame's beenaround for like we've.
We've been studying it longer.
I feel more comfortabledrinking something with
aspartame than stevia.
Not that I'm saying stevie isbad.

Speaker 3 (24:08):
It's probably fine too, but like yeah, the amount
of processing that stevia has togo through in order to get on
the store shelf.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
At that point aspartame probably is less
processed and maybe I'm sayingit just because I also hate
stevia, like I just hate thetaste of it the taste?

Speaker 1 (24:23):
yeah, it just doesn't taste good man like.

Speaker 2 (24:26):
It's not.
It's not, it's the bad sweet,it's the bad sweet it, it's the
bad sweet it doesn't.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
I have a.
I think I have a maybe anunpopular take on this.
Yeah, I think Stevia does havea little bit of an interesting
flavor which, like maybe monkfruit, can like replace, but I
don't really think it does thatgood of a job either.
But sugar alcohols and andaspartame I think sugar alcohols
are one of my favorite becausethey, while they might make your
tummy hurt sometimes, I findfor me as someone with a massive

(24:53):
appetite that's like anddiabetes also reminder diabetes
uh, both diabetes and sugaralcohols kind of help me portion
control because I naturallycan't produce insulin.
So I'm like shit, I can'tovereat candy that much anymore,
or else I want to vomit.
And then also sugar alcoholsmake my stomach hurt, so I'm

(25:13):
like, ok, well, I can'toverconsume it, I'll just have a
small amount, and so that's myportion control.
I'm forced.

Speaker 2 (25:19):
Exactly, it's my force.
I'm going to be up all nightshitting myself.

Speaker 1 (25:22):
Exactly so.
It's my hot take, but I alsolike to give myself small
amounts of like controlledstruggle in my life.
So if I feel like I'm, it'slike, it's like a weird way, I
like to make sure that I'mstruggling all the time you
didn't have influencer on socialmedia wasn't enough struggle
absolutely not never.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
Yeah, it's never enough I, we gotta get, I, yeah,
we gotta bring that up more.
I like that control just alittle, just like the hint of
struggle.

Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, hint of struggle I call it controlled
adversity is like.
When I want to be like coolabout it, I'm like yeah, it's
controlled adversity and peoplelike, wow, that sounds so like
thought provoking.
Yeah, uh, yeah, I just like tolike.
It's pretty much like kickingmyself in the nuts just for fun.

Speaker 2 (26:06):
I would say like seed oils, I.
I don't even get reallybothered by anymore because it's
almost like a meme to me.
Now I just laugh at it becauseit's.
It's just funny to me, Like, oh, you've jumped, you've clearly
jumped on like the carnivorebandwagon and all the sure,
whatever, like sure, whatever.
I don't, I don't give a shit.

Speaker 1 (26:31):
I just laugh.
Oh, it falls off and then itcomes back, and then it falls
off and then it comes back.

Speaker 2 (26:36):
It's crazy it's like msg of all that you know.
Like we, because I think that'sone thing that annoys me is
like we.
I felt like we had gotten overit for a while and we're like
okay, it's good.
And then now it's back andwe're fear-mong.
I think they just ran out ofthings to get upset by it.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
Yeah, they ran out of material oh shit.

Speaker 2 (26:52):
We just did natural flavors and seed oils again.
Fuck, what do we do?

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Oh, there's.

Speaker 2 (26:56):
MSG.
There we go.
Let's throw that in there.

Speaker 1 (26:58):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
And can we talk about natural flavors?
Can?
Sure they're not natural is thekind of their.
Their argument is like becausethey they come, they have to
come from a natural source, butthe way that they're, they're
put into food is it natural?
so therefore it's bad, I guessso they're naturally derived,
not 100 natural, I guess it's,it's, they're like you don't

(27:30):
know what it is is the problem,and a lot of times with natural
flavors, it's just because thecompany doesn't want to put
exactly what's in there, becauseyou know they have like fucking
proprietary.
They want their food to tastegood.
They don't want people copyingit exactly right?

Speaker 3 (27:41):
yeah, because you spend a million dollars on
making a formula.
You put it on the back of a box.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Somebody just rips it off I think I think you know
what's really funny is there'salways like one population of
people or one demographic ofpeople that feel that type of
way about natural ingredients,but then they're also the same
people that vote in line withtypically again, I'm drawing a
parallel here that might notexist but they also vote in line

(28:06):
with pro-business, which ishilarious, because I feel like
there's a massivemisunderstanding of business,
and you guys already pointed itout.
But it's like I'm going tosimplify this a ton.
If you want to start a businessthat costs money X amount of
money, whatever it costs If yougot a product that is a food and
beverage product, you probablyspent a million dollars to get
it into a store like a largeretailer.

(28:28):
So now you're in a largeretailer and you've got GHN and
BHN those two girls in yourstore now telling people that
your product sucks because ithas natural flavors.
But the reason why and you guysalready hinted at this the
reason why it has naturalflavors in general, is because
that's their way of saying okay,these are the ingredients that

(28:50):
are in it, and sometimes there'sin brackets, like what the
natural flavors are for right,like it's like peaches or
whatever, like they'll try tosay, or like apple related.
But yeah, the reason they dothat primarily is not to cause
they want to fuck you.
It's because actually in it?
Well, well it's.
It's exactly that.

(29:10):
It's not.
Not that they're putting anyingredients that are poisonous,
they're putting ingredients thatnow me and you, who have a
large following that person hasno following.
There's some random person, butnow the three of us can't
formulate the exact product thattastes the exact same way and
push it to our followers andthen make them go out of
business it's like it's supersimple business.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
What's like coke's?
You know coke has their, theirsecret, whatever thing in the
vault like their secret formulaor whatever.
It's that on a fucking label.

Speaker 3 (29:37):
It's of all the things.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
But really this is where I kind of just try and
bring things to its logicalconclusion.
Has anyone been unhealthybecause they consume too much
natural flavors in food?
Has that ever been an issuewhere the natural flavors is
what is causing someone to beunhealthy?
If it is, it is so far down thelist.
It's fucking negligible like wetalk about exercise more, eat

(30:01):
more whole foods and fiber andlike protein, like that, the
boring shit.
You know what I'm saying yeahthere's natural flavors on that
list.
I don't think you can.
It's.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
It's in the the fine print of the fine print yeah,
yeah, and and also they'retypically like, I think, in the
us.
I don't know if many peopleknow this, but they.
The ingredients appear in listorder of yeah, how much is in
them by mass.
So natural flavors, like ninetimes out of ten is the last or

(30:30):
second last fucking last.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Thing.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
So and because they don't have to disclose oh,
there's 98 percent water in this, but most drinks there's like
98 percent water in there.
It's like or 95 to 98 percentwater, so it is predominantly
water and then filled withwhatever the other things are.
It is predominantly juice andthen filled with the other
things.
So, even if the naturalingredient contains one thing

(30:55):
that's extremely bad for you, atwhat dose and how much of it
would you need to consume?

Speaker 2 (30:59):
No, no, no, no, no they throw dose out the window,
like the dose makes the poison.
It's not in their fuckingnomenclature, it's just like it
drives me crazy, like I don'twant any toxins.
I don't want any toxins, Idon't want any poisons.
Why would I want any more?
Like, well then, stop doinganything.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Stop going outside, don't let the sun hit you.
I know you've interacted withhim a fair bit.
He's actually a local to me,that GF Beef guy.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Yeah, I remember.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yeah, he's a bitch.
Yeah, I'll say that publicly.
I'm pretty diplomatic about alot of things, but he's a fake
ass bitch.
So in DMs he'll respond and,like I've actually the only post
I'll say this publicly, theonly post I've ever taken down
was the one of him when he wasdoing the gas video and he said
I was being mean.
And I was like, okay, I kind ofagree, I was being a little

(31:46):
mean, so I took it down.
I've never put it back up.
It was the one where he's like,at the gas station, oh,
everything's made with petroleum.
And that video did like insanenumbers and he accused me of all
sorts of you know things likeI'm trying to take advantage of
the numbers and I go okay,that's what social media is
about.
First of all, welcome toInstagram.
And so I you know, my, my, myvideo did great, I don't.

(32:08):
I think it had a good turnout.
I think people understood that Iwas not trying to just attack
him.
I was trying to attack hisstupid ideas, which is what I do
with everyone.
Um, well, I don't attackeveryone.
Some people have really greatideas, but, um, yeah it, that
one was a great example for meis just like this is uh, he's a
great example of a creator, Ithink, that intentionally

(32:30):
creates posts in bad faith.
Yeah right, just forintentionally misrepresents
everything.
And then is also I don't knowwhat they call it in English,
but when they're like super niceand I think well, fake is kind
of how I describe it, butthey're super nice and their
comments are like, oh, likelittle old me, and then they're
just like the biggest dickheadto everyone.

(32:51):
Uh, through through whatthey're saying.
Their actions are differentfrom what they're saying.
You know what I mean.
So I don't know.
He's an interesting one that Idon't want to touch with a three
meter pole.
But I did see him a few timesand, uh, I think I spoke to liam
about that, actually that I sawhim in equinox.
I ran into him and I said hi tohim many times and this was
what he he created a video inresponse to me that I was being

(33:13):
creepy, that I was doing allthis shit.
I said no, I took a photo ofyou in a public space, which I'm
allowed to do when I go toequinox.
You did not say hi to me.
I waved at you three times.
I had another person with me toconfirm this.
They don't want to go on camera, so that's why I didn't want to
like backed off from that.
Uh, but I knew for a fuckingfact, if I came on video and I

(33:36):
did in that video, by the way Icame on and I accused him of
ignoring me and likeintentionally trying to avoid
confrontation from me, and so Iknew, if I did that without any
proof of me ever seeing him, hewould just comment like oh, you
didn't see me, like you justmade that whole story up.

(33:56):
And so I I posted the photo ofhim, and I think the reason why
he didn't like it was becausepeople were commenting on his
cabs.
But like, that's neither herenor there, so that's yeah,
listen those.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Those are the type that, just like you know,
anything you know, get more eyeson you.
That's what matters.
Like I've seen that guy.
He literally attacks everyone,anyone and everyone.
It does not matter.
It's kind of like just thepunch up.
You know the Greg Doucettemethod, where you just kind of
keep punching up until youeventually get there, like it
works, like I totally, like Itotally get like clearly, but
yeah, I just ignore that shit,just um, but yeah, I just ignore

(34:32):
that shit, just kind of laughat it, it's fun.
But anyway, I want to ask you,like here's the thing to say I'm
kind of curious can we createbecause you've seen a lot of
these sort of videos, these likegrocery store videos, like can
we make?
How would we make the most?
If we were to set out and makethe most like viral, like get
the most views, demonizing, youknow, like a certain thing video
, how would we create it?
That's, that's kind of what Iwant to go through.

(34:53):
So first, I think like we haveto be in a grocery store, right,
like those are the videos thatseem to like do the best here,
like in a grocery store I thinkwe need to find the grocery
store that bobby films at, sothat, as he's filming, we can
run into frame, shove him andjust start our video that's and
an.
I was thinking more.
We're the ones creating thefear mongering video.
That was more my idea.

(35:14):
You're going to wear ourselvesand we're going to go beat
people up.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:19):
We're jumping out of our shoes for a second and into
someone else's shoes.

Speaker 2 (35:23):
We are going to become the grocery store.

Speaker 1 (35:24):
We are, we are the.
I think we have to be Airish,yes.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
Yes, are the air ish, yes, yes, yes, situation.
So I think we need to be in agrocery store and I think this,
this is there's okay.
Listen, I'm gonna ask you guysthere's one item I see.
There's one item I see all thetime, whenever people demonize
it, it always gets views, always, always, always, and I get
tagged in every.
If someone's debunking it, Iget tagged in that one.
It's always just that I, whatyou have what?
What one item do you guys seethat when people demonize it, it

(35:55):
always blows up?

Speaker 1 (35:56):
I mean I would say raw milk, but I don't know that.
That's no, no, not to you.
I don't think that's.
This is something a lot ofpeople buy.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
I'm going to, okay, listen, I'm going to give you a
big hint right here, because itis at Costco.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
That's a big thing.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
Oh, rotisserie chicken I literally just created
.
I don't have a Costco.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
I don't think about that stuff.

Speaker 1 (36:16):
Okay, I just want a harmless plug.
I made a YouTube video on howto make four recipes or nine
meal portions over 30 grams ofprotein, with vegetables and
stuff too Super cheap using theCostco rotisserie chicken.
So that's on my YouTube BecauseI was so anti these people, um
yeah, no and fear monger it.
Yeah, exactly now, take thatmeal and fucking shove it up

(36:37):
everyone's ass.
Um, so how would I?
I think super important.
I think super important, likethese are the things I think
about when I make a video that I, I know, will do well.
Right, it has to have a whatthe fuck factor.
It has to look very uh and butfor those listening at home, a
what the fuck factor isliterally, if you see it in the
first two seconds, it makes youfeel unemotion, any emotion, but

(37:02):
if it's the stronger the better.
So if it literally makes you gowhat the fuck out loud, it'll
be a great video.
Um, so that's where the tarpsoff at the grocery stores work
pretty well.
Uh, because people are always.
First comment is wait, how arethey letting you in the grocery
store with no shirt on right,like those are always people's
logical thoughts.

(37:22):
So I think that's like an easyone.
I think costco's good becauseit's iconic people know what it
looks like.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
You need something that people buy a lot, like
costco rotisserie chicken, likeit's beloved because it's still
five dollars, right, like that'sinsane.
Getting a chicken, a wholechicken, for five dollars is
crazy.
You're not getting that andyou're not getting a raw chicken
for five dollars anywhere else.
So like you're getting onethat's already cooked and
seasoned, everything people loveit.
So you need to take somethingthat is loved and go fuck you,
you can't buy this anymore.
That's what.

(37:49):
That's what gets.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
You know the, the views I think, I think we need
to first determine what is thefavorite part of this.
I think the logical answer hereis, uh, either demonizing
something specific about thedark meat, which I think most
people prefer, and or the likeskin, something about the skin,
because any like the moment, youneed to go after the like,

(38:11):
favorite, beloved part of it toupset people and then if you
upset people, it goes more viral, right?
so I'd be if I'm demonizingsomething, I'm going dark meat
or or skin somehow I I think Iwould go with, like another
thing that I see always does.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Well, it's banned in other countries.
It's banned in other countries.
So I would say there'ssomething in the carasco
rotisserie chicken that's bannedin another country.
It doesn't matter what it is,or, if it even exists, who gives
a shit.
It's not like they're gonnalook that up yeah, I'm gonna say
there's no one's gonna lookthat up.
That are banned in other.
Maybe it's chlorinated orwhatever.
You could go that route likeit's used chlorinated chicken
that's banned in europe, blah,blah, blah.
That sort of bullshit I think.

(38:51):
I think I, I think I would gowith that route yeah, I, I think
that's a good one.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
And then do something like that GF Beef guy does it
really well, though I will saywhat he does well is like when
he says it's chlorinated.
He literally takes a tub.
He buys a tub from Walmart.
By the way, this guy is welloff.
He's a member at Equinox.
So before you start thinkinglike he's not doing well in life

(39:26):
and that's why the boo-hoowoe-is-me story he is a member
at Equinox in vancouver, themost expensive downtown
vancouver, the most expensivecity in north america.
So lick my dick.
But moving on from that, um,the the like.
Dunking in a in a like thevisual.
You have to create a visual.
It's like dunking the chickenin like I.
I would honestly put it dunk itin piranhas or something, and
be like even the piranhas don'twant to eat it.
You know what I mean.
Like, like fuck, he does it inin the bleach, which is

(39:51):
obviously misrepresenting whatchlorine is.
Right.
Like, yeah, it doesn't matter,though, because as long as the
visual makes sense, well to theaverage person who's not going
to look it up?
Um, well to to the averageperson who's not going to look
it up.
So, yeah, I think dunking it inin like piranhas would be good,
or like, literally, uh, an acidthat would melt your face off,

(40:11):
but that would be a lot harderto get like a bunch of like food
grade carrageenan or something.

Speaker 2 (40:14):
Then just dump it in on top of it Like this is what's
in your food, you know.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, or say that it's lunch.
Yeah, or say that it's foodgrade carrageenan and it's
really just like a chia puddingbath.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
You know what I mean.
And it's just like odd.
And then you lift it out and itwould be like that weird, like
milky thick texture that chiaseeds get.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
It's a what the fuck moment.

Speaker 3 (40:37):
The entire video is a what the fuck moment.
I think we found the directorfor our alpha water commercial.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Yeah, oh yeah, and we're doing, uh, we're gonna be
selling alpha water and thetagline is because I ain't no
beta bitch and so, like you knowthe fuck, I am not.
Yeah exactly so.
You need our water and we'vegot yeah, it's, it's, it's gonna
sell.

Speaker 1 (40:55):
Pretty well, we're gonna get chem thug who does a
bunch of stuff like chemistrynice, give us like a bunch of
buzz, how big's the, how big'sthe budget for this?
because I think everybody needsto be wearing a big watch, like
where it looks like you boughtit like per gram of its size,
you know what I mean you're notpaying for the watch based on
the name brand you're paying for, like the bigger the better
kind of thing yeah, like youhave, just like one of those big

(41:17):
compasses, just like sitting onyour wrist yeah, yeah, yeah,
and it's just aggressivelyplanned.
it's like tied with, like whatdo they call it?
Tweed with, like tied on withlike a rope.
It's not even actually a watchstrap anymore.
I just feel like those arealways the funniest ones for me
and again, that's all thesevideo productions are.
I feel like, is how can I getyou to feel?

(41:38):
And that's okay, that is onething I will give people a play
from my brain is will this giveyou value?
Is my goal with a video is willit give you value and will it
give you, will it make you feelsomething?
So usually that's somethingthat I'm going for and I think
that you guys agree with in yourvideos is laughter.
I prefer to make someone laughbecause I feel that I learn best

(42:01):
when I'm laughing or like in ajoking mood.
I'll remember, because I'mtrying to remember the joke.
If I remember the joke, I'llremember what we're talking
about, right, I'll remember thetopic.
So that's why I do laughter.
Fear mongering is, you know,fear is probably the biggest,
probably the easiest way toremember something.
So, yeah, I would go with alphawater.

(42:22):
I I'd be like do you want to beguzzling down fluoride which
fucks you like entirely, youknow like.
You just say something likethat use the yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:31):
Good, if you're mongering out aspect, well, I
mean we'll get, we'll throw iteverything into into alpha water
, that's.
That's kind of our eventual get, get rich um get rich quick,
get rich.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
Eventually it's like, uh, it's like one of those cars
that you go into and you'relike I don't know what's the
zero to 100 in this?
And you're like zero to 100hopefully.
I don't know, you knowhopefully it gets there yeah,
just eventually, eventually yeahthe.
There's no actual measured zeroto 100 speed.
Yeah, I do have a question foryou guys and I'm like this is a

(43:04):
genuine curiosity, so I thinkthis is a good opportunity to
ask you guys and I filmed avideo on it as well with regards
to brand deals, and I wouldlike both of you to weigh on
this, because I appreciate bothof you in this.
With regards to brand deals, Iknow where you guys stand
roughly, but I don't want tospeak for you.
Obviously, and I would assumethat you guys stand on the side

(43:26):
of prefer to not take money ifpossible.
But my question to you is atwhat point do you deem it
acceptable for someone in ourspace to take brand deals?
Where would you draw the linewith acceptability of brand
deals?
What's your take on brand dealsand how that influences the

(43:46):
creator's output of content?
Does that, does that questionmake sense?
Like it's pretty vague, but I'mcurious for me.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
The big thing is I have to have the ability to be
100 percent honest about theproduct, whether that's a bad
review or whatever, because Imean, if they, if they believe
in their product, they shouldn'thave to worry about a bad
review.
Sure, and if they're puttingout a shit product that it

(44:14):
deserves a bad review, then butwhat if it's not a review base,
like you could tell?

Speaker 1 (44:18):
so I'll use my, I'll provide my examples, so, uh,
because I can talk about them.
So what I do is I like toeducate on canned foods, right,
and that's largely what mypremise is.
I'm just educating someone, I'mmaking my same content.
It's just paid for by someone.
So at what point do you saythat's a conflict of interest?
That's not okay.
And, by the way, you can don'tfeel bad about offending me uh,

(44:41):
say you think because, well, I'mCanadian.
So I, yeah, I appreciate themhelping me.

Speaker 3 (44:48):
You'll apologize, no matter what we say.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Oh yeah, sorry, I would for what it's worth in any
of the brand deals I make.
To your point, rob, I want itto be so that I would have said
it for free, right, if I?
would have said it for free, orI would have paid in the course
of I would have purchased theirproduct and then said it, so I
would have paid to say it.
Then I think it's a reasonablecollaboration.

(45:12):
I also I'm on the side of.
I don't think it should sway inany way your content, if that
makes sense.
So it could be a completelyunrelated thing and you're going
going, I don't know, they'responsoring a vlog something that
actually sponsored this podcaststuff.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
No, mine's pretty easy.
Mine it's just like do theyoffer me six figures and then
that's good?
It doesn't matter what theproduct is, who gives a fuck you
know how much money you knowhow much I can buy with no uh.
This is why liam's rich and I'mnot yeah, exactly yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:40):
That's why liam's actually rolling in money.
He's that's seeing that basketbehind him right there.
That's actually his watchcollection under all of that I
got my bear bell hat up there.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
They sent me.
They sent me bear bells.
I do that's hype.
They're good, by the way, bearbells are fire.
My thing is like, if I'vealready said I liked it and then
they'll, they're like, we'llpay you to say you like it again
, I'm like, okay, that's fine.
Like I already said it beforeI'll say it again.
Who reached out recently thatI'm talking with possibly
frosted mini wheats?
Maybe shut the fuck up, I loveyeah, fuck off that I've.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
I've gone on the record saying they're the
greatest cereal known to man Imentioned in a video.
I would do that I.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
I mentioned them in a video.
I talked about how much I likethem.
I wasn't getting paid in anyway, I just enjoy frosted wheat
and then like yeah.
They were like hey, maybe we'llpay you for something.
I was like okay, like I don'tknow if I'm gonna, or whatever,
I don't like it's sure yeah ifthey don't, that's fine yeah,
and I'm sure I'll get a bunch ofpeople like paid for by big
cereal.
Sure I don't give a shit.
I love cereal.
I love frost Wheats One of myfavorites.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Yeah, I can, I can fall asleep at night with that
kind of thing.
But I was just curious yourguys's take, because actually
somebody that's that's actuallyan excellent If you can feel
good.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Fall asleep.
Look at yourself in the mirror.
Yeah, it's a product that youbelieve in.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
You would have purchased anyway.

Speaker 2 (46:59):
Yeah, like that kind of stuff, one of the very few
I've done.
I've only done like two, andone of them was like the lids
that this company, charles, likeVianson, like they sent me some
lids that you can cook with orstore things, and I was like oh,
I think I saw that.
Yeah, so I've mentioned themwhen they're not paying me.
I've mentioned when they do payme.
I don't care.
Like you know, I'm like theseare just cool lids and like

(47:19):
whatever gets people cooking andstoring, you know, like
whatever that's cool, yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:25):
And that actually provides a follow-up question.
I know we're kind of close ontime here, but follow-up
question is and this is mainlybecause I might not be as
familiar with the FTC guidelines, because I do that too I'm
unpaid.
Like I've made many posts aboutcanned foods that are not paid
for, by the way, and even duringthat contract like my contract

(47:46):
is x amount of videos I've madealready more than my contract
and my contract has yet toexpire like I still many more
that I legally have to make, uh,or rather, based on the
contract, not legally, but, um,I have many more that I have to
make, but I'm like, but I'mmaking more just because I like,
I enjoy, enjoy it anyway.
So my question is fortransparency purposes, how much

(48:08):
do you have to disclose yourpartnership If you, if you're
making it for free, the video isfor free.
You're not being paid to makethe video, you just genuinely
like the product, or you thinksomebody else can get value from
the product, but you've beenpreviously paid for something.
At what point does that becomea slippery slope?
Do you get what I'm saying?
So, like in your case, with thelids, you're making a video.

(48:28):
They're not paying you to makeit anymore.
You already have the product,but they have in the past paid
you.
Is that a conflict of interest?
Like I genuinely wonder thatbecause I make videos about
canned foods.

Speaker 3 (48:46):
I don't think that's a conflict of interest.
I would actually say that goesto show that you actually do
continue to use the product orwhatever.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
I don't have an issue with somebody like they got
paid once and one video and now,like a year later, they still
talk about the product, whatever.
I don't, I don't think so.
I don't think.
Yeah, it's an issue okay, well,that's I.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
I was.
Yeah.
I'm actually shocked, like uh,that that went the direction
that we pretty much feel theexact same way on it on kind of
across the board if I got paidby mini wheats to do a thing I'm
not going to stop eating miniwheats.
Yeah, yeah 100, in fact, I'dprobably end up eating more.
So that would be just good.
That's good marketing on theirpart.

(49:22):
Like I'm just gonna end upbuying more of it because now
I'm thinking about it more.
You know what?

Speaker 2 (49:25):
I mean, there's 48 grams of, like whole grains per
serving and like dude, don'teven get me started, they're the
goaded cereal.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
They are goaded by both the label and the taste.
They are just superior.
And the price point.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
I mean, oh, seriously , like, yeah, I buy them at
Costco or Sam's Club or whereveryou get the giant, the two big
ass bags.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Sorry, rob, it's like an inhumane large box because
we don't have Sam's Club hereand he doesn't have a Costco.
I love the Costco sized.

Speaker 3 (49:58):
I would go to hell and back for that.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
When Liam goes into talks for his Kellogg's deal,
he'll be able to show thisentire podcast as a real.
I'm listening, I was.
If I make a video I will showlike multiple times in the years
I've done this where I'vetalked about frosted mini wheat,
so like I talked about herehere, here didn't get paid for
any of that shit.

Speaker 3 (50:16):
Yeah, just yeah.
I have said multiple times thatif I'm gonna pick a cereal,
it's gonna be either mini wheatsor raisin bran.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Yeah, that's raisin bran's a good choice.
I actually tried for the firsttime.
Uh, people were like upsetabout my decision to say that
mini wheats was like the goat inmy opinion, but it was when I
was, I guess, not reviewing, buttrying for the first time.
The grape nuts, I don't think.
Do we have that in canada, rob?

Speaker 3 (50:42):
I don't think so I don't know what you're talking
about okay, good.

Speaker 1 (50:45):
So so everyone was like oh you, fucking weirdo,
you've never tried grape nuts.
And I go, you mean liquidcement, I mean like literally
I've not.
No, it's literally, I've nevertried grape nuts.

Speaker 2 (50:54):
I've seen them because I'm in a, you know the
states, but like that's notsomething I typically, most
people don't just eat, isn'tthat something you add to your
cereal Because it's like I?

Speaker 1 (51:02):
feel like it's like a granola type thing.
It's not like a, that's notlike a cereal, that's like a hey
, I'm with this shit it's juston great.
Although, although with somemini wheats.
Yeah Fire, oh fire.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
I get the five one cereal and I'll like add that to
like a fiber and that that'sjust.
Yeah, I love that, yeah I lovethat big fan.

Speaker 1 (51:24):
So fiber one, if you're looking, or if you're
looking for new, uh, sure,investments, fiber one, we'll,
uh, we'll take that down andthen we'll have content for a
lifetime.
No, okay, that was interesting.
Yeah, because, again for me,like, I think obviously it's
important to be supertransparent, but and not but
also along that note, I thinkit's also important to be super
transparent, but and not, butalso along that note, I think

(51:44):
it's also important to betransparent on the other side of
things, which I try to be asmuch as I can, is like, yes, uh,
we make these videos, but, liam, I don't know your structure
with the U S, how that works,but I'll talk for Rob and I.
We make these videos 100% free,meaning what people don't
realize is I put up a videothat's a minute long or two
minutes long.

(52:05):
That video did not take us twominutes, even, just record
upload.
If that's all we did was recordupload and write a caption, that
took like half an hour.
There's no way it takes lessthan that.
And so you, you can't.
You guys sitting at home canvalue your time at whatever the
fuck you want, but we have tovalue it at zero, zero, 99 an
hour.
You know what I mean.
Like it's zero an hour.

(52:26):
And so there comes that timewhere I'm very understanding,
and I always have been.
Before I started creatingcontent, I was like, okay, well,
you have to find a way to makeit make sense for you at some
point, financially speaking.
Otherwise you can't provide asgood of a value if you're
constantly thinking about how,where's my next meal coming from

(52:46):
?
Where's my next?
Yeah, you know, how am I goingto pay?

Speaker 2 (52:48):
rent.
How am I going to get my child?
I think I have an issue withcare or whatever so I think, I
think creators should be allowedgo ahead yeah, I was gonna say,
like we none of us have anissue with people making money
on the internet, and I think alot of that's a criticism.
We get where, like we callpeople out, yeah, like like I,
they're trying to, they'retrying to tell you something
else is horrible for you andthen sell you their product

(53:09):
that's three times the price.
I have no problem with makingmoney, especially even
supplements like you knowthere's like the fucking lane
norton's of the world orwhatever, like sean nalewanyj,
like they.
They sell protein powders andcreatine like dope.
That's.
That's super cool.
I got no issues with that.
It's just when you're sellingthem.
You know these products thatprobably aren't going to do half
the things you say and thenthey're selling them yeah, yeah,

(53:30):
right, exactly yeah.
That's what drives me crazyyeah, it's exactly that.

Speaker 1 (53:34):
it's the method by which they go by and like in the
case of some, it's like theydon't disclose partnerships or
they don't, you know, follow,and where it's like I what?
Like yeah, so for for me, it'slike I'm actually pro.
If you can make a shit ton ofmoney, I don't care how much it
is.
You can be bezos rolling in it,I really don't care.
Yeah, I, in fact I support it.

(53:56):
My issue lies in did you followthe rules?
You know, did you?
Uh, if you solve for a problem,I will even simplify it If you
found a problem.
So my current problem right nowis my camera in my bag.
This thing turns on and then,when I get to my destination to
film, my camera battery is dead,so it'll just turn on in my in

(54:19):
my bag and I'm like fucking sick.
So, for example, I'm just usingthat as a great example.
So now you're somebody whocreates this maybe this 3d
printed thing that goes on topof the camera that stops it from
turning on and you make thiswould never happen, by the way,
because there's no way to scaleit that much but you make $10
million doing that.
Why the fuck am I to be madLike I am not mad about that.

(54:40):
I'm like dude.
You just solved someone'sproblem.
They found value in it at Xamount of dollars and they paid
you for it.
Fantastic, I love that.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
I love me a scrub daddy, oh dude, fuck.

Speaker 1 (54:50):
Yes, scrub daddy, yes , that is one of the best.
I'm oddly passionate about thescrub daddy.
It is like a sponge like noother and, I'm not gonna lie, I
was such a skeptic.
Such a good product.
But yeah, like products likethat is like dope and the way
they go about it is fun, loving,whatever.
But they're not sitting outhere and they do kind of, you
know, fear monger, but they havethe right to, because they say

(55:14):
you know it's better than xproduct.
Well, if you have anymeasurable way of showing that
it's better, show it.
If you don't, okay.
Well then that's where I havethe problem, where you don't
have the measurable ways ofshowing best.
Or like I'm okay with peoplesaying it's my favorite, but
when they say best, you have tohave some proof of how it's
better than other things.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Nutrition.
You don't really like get intothe space too much for the money
unless you're trying to sell,like a lot of the supplements,
the you know supplements andstuff like that and that's kind
of down that slippery slope.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
Yeah, in which case you do, yeah, and and, by the
way, and I'm all okay to yourpoint, I'm okay if people have
um supplement, companies,sponsorships, I mean I've, I,
I'm okay with that.
It's just like hey, I use thisproduct.
I personally right now workwith gorilla mind.
Um, I will disclose that Um, ahundred percent.
That's a recent thing.

(56:08):
I will also disclose that it isa recent thing, and so, for me,
I will also tell people you cango whatever way you want.
That's just what I'm usingcurrently and I am, you know,
they are helping me out, so, ina way, they're helping to fund
those videos that you guys getto watch for free.
So, yeah, so that you don'thave to pay for it.
That's my biggest thing is like, you know the consumer, they

(56:29):
don't have to pay for it, andthey're like, oh, this is great.
So, anyway, that's a.
I could go on for hours aboutthat.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Let's just say this nobody in the other space, the
people that we talk about, ishaving this discussion
whatsoever.
They don't give a fuck.
They just say how much moneycan I make and how quickly can I
make it.
That's pretty much yeah, andand I would.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
I would like to point out also that, uh, I'm sure
it's the same with you guys, butI have sat in on these meetings
.
I just want people to know thatI recently there was a company
that offered me thirty thousanddollars us.
That is some people's entireyear income here.

Speaker 3 (57:06):
That is my year.
That's more than my income,right, I had to say no to that,
I'm not going to lie.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
I was like I was like whoa, that would simplify a lot
of my things but like a lot ofmy problems, all of my problems
would go away because I couldeliminate.
You know, I wouldn't have towork as much, and by having more
days I can do more work.
But the problem is, the productitself is not what they say it
is, and that's where I know likethat's truth be told selfishly.

(57:32):
That's why I asked the question, because I kind of wanted to
feel better about the fact thatI turned it down.

Speaker 2 (57:40):
And so I, you know those those AI things where you
take, take a picture of yourfood and it like counts your
macros and like everything itmay or may not have been one of
them.
It may or may not have been oneof them, I figured it was maybe
something like that because I'veseen that and they're throwing
huge if it came to me andoffered me a hundred thousand
dollars, I'd say no because like, listen, a hundred thousand
dollars sounds fucking amazing.
Don't get me wrong.
But I I'm not gonna.
You know it doesn't work likeI'm not going to.

(58:00):
You know it doesn't work LikeI'm not going to sell out for
that sort of shit.
I'm not rich, but I get by, Ido.
Okay, I'm not, you know, aslong as I.

Speaker 3 (58:09):
And that shows the integrity that we've got.
Like this morning I had to dropmy truck off for repairs again
because of how much I've beendriving back and forth to do
stuff for my dad.
Yeah, I would love more thananything to get a nice deal with
a big chunk of money, butunless it's something that I can

(58:31):
again fall asleep feeling goodabout myself, get up, look at
myself in the mirror and say Ihelped people, yeah, I'm not
going to take that.

Speaker 2 (58:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
Yeah, yeah, the.
The reality is for a lot ofthese meetings is and, and.
Again.
You guys can talk to this aswell as like and it makes sense
from a business standpoint.
I'm like, I get it, I'm not, Iwill defend it.
That's fine.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
When they offer us, say you know, Liam's number of
six, uh, six figures, that waskind of a big.
Uh'm going to offer a decentamount, not $100,000.
But even if I did that's whatI'm saying I wouldn't take that.

Speaker 1 (59:09):
And I think there's good transparency in the space,
right Like I probably shouldn'tdisclose that somebody has
offered me that much, but thatis the number we're talking
about and I just want people toknow that, like when they offer,
I haven't taken a deal ofanywhere near that size, by the
way.
So just so anybody knows.

(59:29):
Um, no, nowhere, even in thesame ballpark.
So, um, but those deals whenyou first of all, that's that
what I just said is going tohinder my ability to get another
deal at that size, but leverageanyways.
But those deals when they payme or Liam or Rob 30,000, let's
say $100,000, for simple math,they give us $100,000.
It doesn't matter what they payus.
To them it really doesn'tmatter as long as they have that

(59:50):
money, then they can pay us.
It doesn't matter what they payus, as long as we bring them
four or five X in revenue.
What that means is they want tosee that we will bring them
back Usually the case, unless tosee that we will bring them
back Usually the case, unlessit's some different strategy
with marketing.
But when it's that lump sum ofmoney, that massive lump sum of
money, they want to see fourtimes the people, $400,000

(01:00:12):
minimum worth of their moneyback.
So that's the thing that Ithink people need to understand
the most about these businessdecisions is I really don't care
if they offer Liam $100,000 andit's mini wheats and he loves
the product and he makes them$400,000.
I don't care because that'sjust good business.
That means they have a product.
That's good, they have a way toscale it and make money, they

(01:00:32):
have the ability to pay Liamwhat he's worth and they have.
You know, everyone can sleep atnight.
Those numbers actually don'tmatter, but that's what they
care about.
When you go into these meetings,these companies rightfully so.
They need to put food on thetable for their kids too.
So what they want to know ishow can Eden or Liam or Rob

(01:00:54):
bring us back four to five timesplus on our investment and then
we'll pay him whatever thatnumber that makes sense is for
them.
So that's typically how thesedeals come about and I mean I'm
not the most experienced inthese areas, but I've been
exposed to it a fair amount, soI know that it's like the
numbers don't really matter tome at all.

(01:01:14):
It's just about how are weturning that 4X?
Those are the things that arelike where I start to go like it
goes back to what Rob wassaying about the methods.
How are we selling this productto get four to five X?
Because I find it verychallenging to sell $400,000
worth of cereal.
You know like, how is Liamgoing to sell $400,000?

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
worth of mini-meats.
I'm going to sell half amillion dollars worth of cereal,
no problem.
You know how much people-.

Speaker 3 (01:01:40):
Just take Oakley door to door and you know you want
to buy some cereal for my child.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Yeah, exactly.
Yeah, like that's the integrityof it.
I will take $500 from MiniWheats before $100,000 from some
company that's selling somebullshit that I don't.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
For what it's worth, you should take way more than
$500.
If that's what they're offering, I'd probably offer more than
$500.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
I would assume, I don't know.
Yeah, but you know what I it's.
My point is it does money likecool money.
That's awesome.
But like, do I like the product?
Do I use it?
That's what's bad oh, I justgot sent of some fucking energy
drinks and they sent me a robewith it as well, and they're
like doing this thing yeah, likeI was like a robe.
What is this?
It's just.
Their tagline is definitely nota cult.

(01:02:23):
Um fuck, they're probably okay,I'm not even mentioning.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
I don't remember what it is, but like so yeah, you've
unintentionally joined a cultyeah, it's very it's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
It's an interesting but here's the thing they donate
one percent of their sales tofight human trafficking.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
I was like, oh, that's super cool I love that
okay, maybe I'll like theproblem and it tastes horrible.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
And it tastes absolutely.
I can't even finish this, sothat's a no, can't feels bad.
I think I'm gonna make a videolike they're playing.
I'll make this video aboutenergy drinks and just show
anybody.
Like I don't like this, likemaybe you will, and that human
trafficking thing, fighting that.
That's super cool, but ittastes kind of like balls to me.
So I'm just gonna have to getthe strong pass on this one yeah

(01:03:01):
, I've tried urine therapy, soI'm sure it was worse than that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Um, they went all natural.

Speaker 2 (01:03:07):
It was like we don't use any aspartame or sucralose.
It's like oh you fucked up, Ican't, I can't do, I give me the
artificial my favorite is.

Speaker 1 (01:03:14):
My favorite is so.
I previously worked with acompany that was or tried to
work.
I'll say I previously tried towork with a company that was
also the all-natural route,which was fine.
I stopped communication withthe company because the ceo was
kind of um, well, hopefully hedoesn't listen to this but he
was kind of tweaking out aboutlike, uh, he was anti, big
anti-sugar because he grew upeating a lot of sugar over

(01:03:37):
consuming sugar from iced teaand which was great, but he was
also anti sweeteners so I waslike I just this tastes like
nothing.
You know what I mean?
You're like this tastes likedirty, nothing actually.
So you're like and and again.
Yeah, they were like a lot ofenvironmental initiatives, all

(01:03:58):
of this, and I'm like great,that's so I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:01):
But yeah, it painful, but it can't taste like garbage
, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
Yeah, it doesn't substitute for a good product,
unfortunately.
So being a good person doesn'tmatter if you don't give a good
value.

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
We can be a good person and use some artificial
sweeteners, we'll be.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:18):
But I'm just saying, being a super nice guy doesn't
change the fact that you know,like the way I see it is my
analogy, for that is like youare a great guy but you sit on
your ass at home.
I think people would ratherhire the guy who doesn't sit on
his ass at home and do nothingand is a shit person, but he'll

(01:04:38):
they at least know he'll show upto work every day and, you know
, get the work done.
So that's where, like, societyis right there, like they just
want to be immediately rewardedwith the thing that they can
trust.
So whether or not you're a goodperson doesn't fucking matter
to them, they're just ratherpeople are looking for for
someone else to trust, where?

Speaker 2 (01:04:53):
where can they find you?
Where can they find your?

Speaker 1 (01:04:55):
uh, you can follow me on youtube and uh, instagram
and tiktok at evidence nutrition.
My tiktok doesn't give me anyviews anymore, which is great,
but you can follow me onInstagram.

Speaker 3 (01:05:06):
I'm there every single day.

Speaker 1 (01:05:09):
That's Canada.
I think that it was ever sincethe Canada thing my views like,
quite literally, I can't crack athousand views anymore, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:17):
But I post every day Evidence Nutrition, not Edenfins
.

Speaker 1 (01:05:19):
Yes, correct Evidence .
Nutrition E-V-I-D-E-N-C-E.
Nutrition N-U-T-R-I-T-I-O-N.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
So sorry for making you spell that out,
congratulations.
You move on to the next roundof the spelling bee.
Fuck, yes, yes, let's go, mymom would be so proud, finally.