From Emotional Eating To Autonomy: Practical Tools For Lasting Weight Loss

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:18):
Hello, everybody.
Welcome to your co-host Rob.
And Liam has just left us.
It's okay because we found Mikeoutside the studio begging for
scraps.
So we decided to adopt Mike.

SPEAKER_01 (00:30):
Look, I'm on a cut right now.
Any scraps are much appreciated.

SPEAKER_02 (00:36):
I I am so glad I gave up all like the cutting and
bulking things.
I did that for a little while,and now I'm just like, nah, I
just eat food and don't reallyworry about it too much.
That's my favorite.
That's what I like doing.

SPEAKER_01 (00:46):
I am Mike needs a plan on all the socials.
And um today we have a veryspecial guest, somebody that
I've spoken about here on thepodcast plenty of times and my
own.

SPEAKER_02 (00:56):
Robert Downey Jr.

SPEAKER_01 (00:58):
Hi.

SPEAKER_00 (00:58):
What's going on, buddy?
You guys keep talking about TonyStark and stuff, but hear me
out.
You look like you could beLiam's brother.

SPEAKER_02 (01:10):
No, no, no, no.
I've gotten a few tags where,like, is this your brother?
Really?
And yeah, no, I've gotten I'vegotten more than a couple, more
than a couple that I remember.
I'm like, yeah, I mean, I cansee it a little bit.
I can see it a little bit.
But oh, I remember, no, no, no.
I filmed a video.
I filmed a whole video that Inever think I got to like edit
or post where I was like, if Ilook like Chris and Chris looks

(01:31):
like Tony Stark, do I look likeTony Stark then?
Because I'm gonna take that as athing I think that's a yes.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36):
Dude, grow the stash or the uh grow the goatee and
find out and see what happens.

SPEAKER_02 (01:41):
My facial, I can only grow a neck beard.

SPEAKER_03 (01:43):
See, that was what I told people.
This is just how my I haverandom bald spots.
Um this is the way to do it onmy face.
And if you're like, you do it onpurpose.
I'm like, it's this or splotchy.
So I don't like splotchy.

SPEAKER_02 (01:56):
Because it looks like you're leaning into the
Tony Stark thing.
That's what it looks like.
You're like, I'm trying to getpeople to see this.

SPEAKER_03 (02:03):
Oh yeah.
No, it's it's yeah.
This is just happens to happen.
It just happens, yeah.
It happens.

SPEAKER_01 (02:09):
It just means my face so well for somebody else.
Like, well, I guess I could takeit.

SPEAKER_03 (02:14):
Yeah, I'll take it.
Well, what it is is I've askedpeople what it is in at times.
I'm like, why?
Because I assumed it was thefacial hair.
What a lot of people have evensaid it's the eyes and the way I
talk.

SPEAKER_02 (02:24):
No, no, there's a there's a cadence.
Yeah.
There is a cadence for sure.
I'm sure people are listeningright now, like, no, no, no, I
hear it.

SPEAKER_03 (02:29):
Yeah, and that's what's weird to me, because like
to me, I don't it's my it's me.
So I don't know, it's bizarrethat find when someone
identifies your doppelganger.

SPEAKER_02 (02:38):
Before we started recording, we said it's good for
social media.
That's it.
It is.
You got your got your thing.
People like pick up on it.
Anything real quick that that'swhy I wear weird shirts and
shit.
So you're like, oh, I like thatshirt.
I don't know how many timespeople have told me I followed
you for your shirts.
That's why I started followingyou.
I'm like, perfect.

SPEAKER_03 (02:52):
You gotta stop the scroll content.

SPEAKER_02 (02:54):
Wait, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (02:56):
Question on the shirts.
So does that mean do you recordit with the front-facing camera
and flip it back so the shirtsare the right way, or do you
record with the back camera?
How do you do it?
Because my shirts are alwaysmirrored, and I'm just too lazy
to fix it.

SPEAKER_02 (03:08):
I I record with that.

SPEAKER_03 (03:11):
Oh, you use an actual camera camera.

SPEAKER_02 (03:13):
Oh, you use it an actual camera on a stand, and I
am so and I got the light now.
You're like a light now.

SPEAKER_03 (03:21):
I have the cameras, and I'm just too lazy.
I'm just like, that's too muchwork.

SPEAKER_00 (03:25):
After 100 episodes of you being backlit by a
window, you finally have alight.

SPEAKER_02 (03:29):
I have a light.
And so, like, but with a camera,I've always like it's kind of a
pain if you're working up uhlike a a uh a mic, and this has
always found this just to be alittle bit easier, and then like
you or storm.
So I I I'm I'm fully in on thecamera.
I switched the camera prettyearly on.
I was glad it did, editingsoftware, all that.
Because like, mess with yourphone.
No, thank you.
No, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 (03:49):
That's so funny.
You said that's the easy way,and I'm like, no, the phone's so
much easier.
You know, there's no right wayto do anything, I think.
I think it's just personalpreference.

SPEAKER_02 (03:56):
In social media, it doesn't matter.
Like, people get caught up,like, oh, this or that.
Like, what camera, what type ofcamera?
Who like whatever, whateverworks for you.
It doesn't matter.
Right post.
What's just post what peopleright ahead?
Hey, right here, what's goingon?
Like, you need something thatgets people have no attention
span, including myself.
That's the this is why I think Ido well, because I make videos

(04:17):
for myself and I have noattention span.

SPEAKER_03 (04:19):
Same.
If I find myself boring, I'mlike, I'm not posting that.
I got bored in five seconds.

SPEAKER_02 (04:24):
I have several videos.
I've never posted it because I'mlike, uh no.
I just look back, I'm like, itwas in my head, it worked out.
It didn't.

SPEAKER_03 (04:30):
I had 40 gigs of drafts in TikTok I had to go
clear out the other day.
I'm like, okay, this isridiculous.
I'm not posting them.
Some went back years.

SPEAKER_02 (04:39):
So damn, that's a long time.

SPEAKER_03 (04:41):
That's too much.
That's too much.

SPEAKER_02 (04:42):
That's a lot.
Speaking of what you post.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (04:45):
We should tell everybody who you are and what
it is that you post.

SPEAKER_03 (04:48):
Oh, my name's Chris Terrell, and I post TikToks.

SPEAKER_02 (04:52):
We all do that.

SPEAKER_00 (04:53):
Well, episode over.

SPEAKER_03 (04:54):
That was that would be what we need it.
We got them.
All right.
I do um so my I do weight loss,but specific with a specific
twist, I specifically focus withuh obesity.
People, my my ideal person I'mtrying to reach is those that
are north of 300 pounds thatlike have given up.
Society's written them off,doctors.
I'm like, fuck, you're not gonnado nothing, and they've written

(05:17):
them off because that's where Iwas.
And it's I try to that's theaudience that I'm trying to get
to because I'm like, and and andso I post on TikToks, I have a
podcast, got a YouTube channel,but and but it's it's all just
trying to get people engaged andjust help them just start
working on their life.
That's really what I'm trying todo, is just get people to do
that by whatever channel I canget people on uh to do that.

(05:40):
So it's um and yeah, that'sthat's that's what I post about,
I guess.
And it's and it's not dieting,right?
Which is weird because it'slike, hey, you gotta lose
weight, but but you but you'renot dieting.
So uh and I have to help peoplemake that connection, which is
hard because as we all know,posting on TikTok, the concept
of nuance is too complicated fora lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 (06:01):
So I've I've covered some of your videos, and
normally like they're pretty uhyou focus on the basics, right?
Because that's what's I thinkfor a lot of people is gonna get
them there.
And a lot of it is just mindsetstuff, right?
Just like shifting your focusfrom one thing and just keeping
it mo keeping it simple for themost part, right?
That's kind of what you sticktowards.

SPEAKER_03 (06:18):
Yeah, because the challenge I have is when I start
talking about food, is we allknow, if you see if you post
about food, you you hear, youhear all the ways you're wrong
and you hear all the ways you'reright, and all the people in in
between.
And so it's like I I I do foodsome, but I don't, I don't I
tend to do that more behind thepaywall because it's like I have
the time to flesh it out withthe nuance.
I'll do it on the podcast whereI have or my YouTube where I

(06:41):
have longer uh you know, I canhave 30 minutes to explain the
nuance behind like, hey, whycalorie tracking actually works
for everybody, but like why itmight not be working.
And and so I try to post onthat, whereas on TikTok, it's
more of all right, this is gonnasound weird to say it.
The way I've been almostthinking of it because some
people have asked me, like, whatdo you do?
And I was like, it's really moreof like weight loss philosophy.

(07:03):
It's more of I try to stay inthat space of like the
philosophy of weight managementand taking care of yourself and
helping people master the basicsbecause most people are rather
than just learning to master thebasics, they're looking for the
trick and the hack.
I'm like, just fuck off with thetricks and hacks and just do the
basics and stop wasting 10 yearslooking for a shortcut when you
could have just done it the slowway five years ago.

SPEAKER_02 (07:25):
I remember a video I got tagged in a bunch of yours
that I was like trying to figureout something to do with was
yours, uh it was a philosophything.
It was like a mindset becauseyou were saying, Oh, if somebody
says I shouldn't eat the chips,then I'm gonna tell you to eat
the chips.
You remember that video?

SPEAKER_03 (07:41):
Uh I don't remember that one specifically, but I
know I've said that a bunch.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (07:45):
You said that, but yeah, so like I kind of wanted
to just ask you about that.
Just like why if somebody says,like, oh, I shouldn't eat chips.
Chips are they're bad food.
Chips, bad food, shouldn't eatit.
And you tell them, like, no, no,no, eat the chips.
And here's why.
I kind of want to give like thatsort of stuff.
I'd love to hear that hear thatfrom you.

SPEAKER_03 (07:58):
Yeah.
So on my I'm doing a I'm doingI'm doing a program.
We're wrapping up next week.
Uh it's an introduction tocalorie tracking, which is
funny.
When we first we we dointroduction counting calories,
I don't even let them countcalories for weeks.
They got to earn the right.
Um, but one of the things I doon week five is I ask everybody
in the group, what foods are younot letting yourself have?

(08:20):
And I make them all like, andthey'll be like chips, ice
cream.
Like, no, no, no, no, no, no,no.
Give me the exact brand,quantity, tell me what you are
not letting yourself do.
And they they then will give methe exact things that say, okay,
now your assignment this week ornext week in the next two weeks,
have it.
Just work it in.
It's got to fit your caloriebudget, right?
You but just work it in.

(08:40):
Because uh in trying to helpshake, like it's not what you're
eating, it's that you're lookingfor a way to have sugar-free
cookies to solve your problemswith cookies.
No, no, stop solving yourproblems with cookies.
Just have a good cookie in areasonable portion and then stop
emotional eating.
And so another big part of whatI deal with um that it's
creeping more into the TikTokside, it's been heavily on my

(09:02):
YouTube and podcast, is um, I'mbig on emotional eating and
working on that.
I think if you're over 300pounds, this is my personal
opinion, and I have yet to haveanybody show me why I'm wrong.
Nobody gets above 300 poundswithout emotional eating playing
a major role in that.
Um, I mean it is probably notthe only thing, but it is there.

(09:24):
And and I and I really focus onpeople don't have a weight loss
problem, they have a weightgaining problem.
And to just lose weight withoutdealing with the weight gaining
problem, I think is theequivalent of getting a debt
consolidation loan without everdealing with your overspending
problem.
You're just gonna rack up yourcredit cards and find yourself
in the exact same problem again.
And so we got to get to thatroot core cause of it.

(09:46):
So that's why, you know, when aperson says, I don't have chips,
I'm like, no, that's that'sactually a part of your
emotional eating problem.
Like we have to stop vilifyingfoods and just go, chips are
made of carbs, they're made offats, they might have protein if
they're quest chips, but they'rejust your body's gonna break
them down into molecules.
So stop judging the food somuch.

(10:07):
And if you want to have somechips, just have some chips.
Just don't have the family-sizedbag twice a week.

unknown (10:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (10:14):
A study I absolutely love, and I've mentioned it on
this podcast a couple of times,is where they had two groups of
children and there was a a tablewith just candy on it.
One group of children were onlyallowed to go to the table when
they were told they wereallowed.
They they could, you know, eatas much as they want.
The other group of children wasallowed to go to the table

(10:36):
whenever they wanted.
The group of children that wererestricted when they were
allowed to go to the table, theywould go to the table and they
would just chow down on candy.
The group of children that wereallowed to go to the table
whenever they wanted wouldwander over, they'd take one
piece, they'd eat it, they'd goback to playing.
Because they knew that theycould go over and have it

(10:57):
whenever they wanted.

SPEAKER_02 (10:58):
Yeah, that was very similar with what I was talking
about recently in a video withlike sugar.
People who are like sugar'saddictive.
Sugar, sugar's addictive ascocaine.
I've heard that a few times.
And there's like studies in ratswhere they find sugar's
addictive when they like resuper restrict them.
They don't give them like anyfood and they only give them
sugar at certain periods.
Then yeah, they're like theyshow addictive properties, like
no fucking shit.
It's just the restriction is theproblem.

(11:19):
So I'm totally with you on that.
Well, and it's like the yeah,the biggest loser.
I was just gonna say, like, whenthey they didn't teach them any
of the things, they justbasically just work them to
death and then they gain all theweight back.

SPEAKER_03 (11:29):
There's uh there's another study with the children.
I got the notes for it righthere.
It was in 1939, actually.
I mean, so this is an older one.

SPEAKER_02 (11:40):
Right?

SPEAKER_03 (11:40):
They had science in the 30s.
I didn't even know that.
That's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 (11:44):
But studies almost old enough to be president.

SPEAKER_03 (11:47):
Same thing.
And in here, this is um thenotes are it's it's in this book
that I'm reading.
But this the author, when theywere like looking at it, this
says, um talking about childrenare taught to override their
instincts.
Like the the beginning of notlistening to your body begins
really young by parents overoverriding a child's natural

(12:07):
inclination of what to eat, whatnot to eat.
I mean, it doesn't help the factwe have the hyperpalatable,
calorie-dense foods.
I mean, that's not helpinganything.
But, you know, we're we get sodisconnected with our with the
signals our body is telling usand hunger, and and and it
that's a big part of what Ireally try to work with people

(12:27):
on.
And then we get the sugaraddiction.
And I have a hard I used to saythat, but I I now try to be real
careful with it because I have ahard time saying sugar is an
addiction, because I I get whatpeople say it, but it's it's not
the same as like a nicotineaddiction, because you don't
develop a chemical dependencythat's going to create
withdrawal symptoms, physicalwithdrawal symptoms, if you
don't get it.
Like our body naturally runs offof sugar.

(12:49):
So it's like I I think it I'vestarted saying it more, it's
like being addicted to shopping,like a shopaholic.
You can be addicted to that, butthere's no chemical dependency.
You're you're addicted to thebehavior and the emotional
payoff that comes from thebehavior, and it's something you
want.
And I think that's a lot easiertoo, because it's like we can't

(13:10):
stop eating like an alcoholic,whereas a shopaholic can't stop
shopping.
Like you still got to buy foodand clothes.
But how do you know if it'semotional shopping or I need to
shop?
And I think that's a far closercomparison.

SPEAKER_02 (13:24):
And a person who's addicted to gambling can't stop
gambling.
I mean, the eagles are going towin this weekend, they're
totally gonna like I'm certainof it, and that's why I put a
thousand dollars every week onbecause it's guaranteed.

SPEAKER_01 (13:35):
I had place to bet on whether or not you mentioned
gambling.
The chemical is dopamine.
Like that's it.
If we're looking to find somekind of chemical dependence,
it's dopamine.
It's not coming from the thingthat you're using or the thing
that you're engaging in, it'scoming from your brain's
reaction to it.

SPEAKER_00 (13:52):
Another thing with that uh rat study stuff is yes,
the um the dopamine receptorsare becoming active, but just
because they are becoming activedoesn't equal full-on addiction.
Right.

SPEAKER_03 (14:08):
Well, and I look, but part of I get where I again
like I said, the weight loss.
It's like, why do you have aweight loss problem?
Why do you need to lose weight?
It's because you have a weightgaining problem, right?
So I look at it.
If a person's chasing dopamine,I like to just go the step
deeper of why you chasing thedopamine so much?
Like, what's causing, like, notlike, oh, I need the fix.
I got that, but why are youchasing it?
Like, what are you running from?
What are you avoiding?

(14:28):
What are you avoiding dealingwith?
Like, it's a a lot of when Iwork with people, a good chunk
of what we do, what I reallywork with people on is I need
you to identify the problems inyour life, actually, actually
admit they're problems, and thenstart working on them.
Like, start working on it.
If you're emotionally eatingbecause you you hate your
fucking job and you hate yourboss and you don't want to be
there and you don't feel likeyou can get another job, the

(14:51):
answer is you need to getanother job.
It might take you two years todo that, but running and dealing
with the food at the end ofevery day, so you can repeat the
cycle week in and week out,that's not a recipe for peace
and happiness long term.
And that's where I look at thedopamine hit.
It's like it's you're it'staking the place of something or
it's causing it's a distractionfrom something.

SPEAKER_02 (15:13):
So is that a common like that?

SPEAKER_00 (15:15):
My emotional eating comes after the podcast because
of having to deal with Liam.

SPEAKER_02 (15:19):
Yeah, most people that's why everyone around me
has has issues except me.
I just the one who causes theissues.
So were you saying like what areI'm kind of curious?
Like, you work with a lot ofpeople then.
Like, what do you see as like acommon sort of like triggers, I
guess, for them?
Like you see, like the job isthe family stress, you know,
like what do you see?

SPEAKER_03 (15:39):
So emotional eating, what I've you know, if I again
if you take 500 people, you'regonna get 500 unique
circumstances.
Even if they're all sayingthey're emotionally eating
because of their job, it's gonnalook different.
They have different jobs,different economic statuses,
different circumstances,situations in the job at home.
So I've had to like try to lookat because I do a lot of group
stuff too, it's what are thecommonalities that would fit

(16:01):
with everybody?
And I think that's what you'reasking, right, Liam?
Like, what are the commonthings?
Yeah.
So it really, I think emotionaleating comes down to a few
things.
One of them is as humans, wehave this deep-seated, probably
biological need to belong.
We're social critters.
And I don't think that's a bug,I think it's a feature.
But it can get out of whackwhere a person will sacrifice

(16:21):
their needs, their personalneeds, so they can belong to
something.
Because sometimes to change, youhave to detach from a community
so you can find the newcommunity.
Well, in that in-between point,you don't fit in anywhere, and
that can be very jarring forpeople.
The other thing that comes inwith it is um, and and I've
noticed this trend, and I'vebeen really uh observing like

(16:43):
intentionally monitoring thisfor now two years.
Emotional eating seems tohappen.
And when I say emotional eating,I'm talking like very clearly,
even the person canself-identify.
Like they'll often use the wordbinge, but emotional eating is
not always binging, um, likethat typical over too much food
in one single sitting.
But it tends to happen when aperson is feeling a loss of

(17:06):
autonomy from something in theirlife.
So let me give a couple ofexamples that'll illustrate
this.
I've I've had and I've seen, I'mgonna share some stories that
I've heard many times.
So I'm not talking about anybodyspecific, but one of them is a
job that is continually making aperson work long, constantly
putting too much pressure onthem, not giving them the tools
to be successful, and thenholding them accountable for not

(17:27):
being successful.
And the person doesn't believethey can leave.
So they come home every dayfeeling this loss of control,
and they're feeling this defiantenergy.
Okay.
Well, I can't defy against myboss because I I need this job.
I need to be able to pay themortgage, I don't want to be
rejected.
There's social ramifications forpushing back.

(17:51):
And so what do I do?
I need to channel this defiantenergy towards something with no
social ramifications.
My diet is a juicy line tocross, and it's super fun to
cross.
And chances are I have my eatenbuddies.
Sometimes I live with my eatenbuddies, and it makes it very
easy to cross that line.
And so I feel a sense of controland empowerment again.

SPEAKER_02 (18:13):
And it's and it's ubiquitous.
It's everywhere and it's easy tocontrol.
So it's it only makes sense toturn to that.

SPEAKER_03 (18:18):
Yeah.
So they're balancing the scaleinternally of I feel a loss of
control, a loss of autonomy.
And so I'm balancing the scalesto feel in control again.
And and it's not like we alwaysdo this.
It's when we feel that the lossof autonomy isn't fair.
And that's totally subjective tothe individual.
So, like most of us stop atstoplights.

(18:39):
That is, in a sense, arestriction on freedom, right?
I want to drive through itanyway, but I'm stopping because
I want to drive safely to work.
It's helpful if we have rules,and for the most part, people
stop at stoplights, right?
So there's a fair exchange of myreduction of freedom.
Whereas, like that workscenario, for example, well, I
may not feel that way.
Another example I've had, thisone's happened many times,

(19:01):
because a lot of my clients arebetween are in between 40s and
60s.
So one of the common things forpeople in that age is aging
parents.
And so it is, I see twoscenarios.
A parent needs to go into anursing home or hospice or
something, and they're and sothere's a tremendous loss of
control feeling, or their parenthas to move into their home.

(19:23):
And when the parent comes intothe home, from everything I've
seen, parents don't tend to movein and be roommates.
They tend to move in and be theparent to some extent, right?
They want more control, theywant more, even if they're not
paying for anything and they'renot controlling anything, right?
They they forget they're movinginto their child's home.
But so this parent-child dynamicis there.
And the child, who's the adultthat I'm working with, feels

(19:44):
this loss of control, this lossof autonomy.
And so they push back, but theycan't push back again against
their mom or dad, so they pushback against their diet, um,
against these rules that societyhas imposed on them of good
foods and bad foods and what Ioh you can't tell me I can't
have this.
And I if I can't be happy, Imight as well have what I want.
And these are the common thingsI've really seen is when a

(20:05):
person feels powerless,emotional eating tends to show
up.

SPEAKER_02 (20:08):
That makes I mean that makes total sense, right?
Like you turn to something youcan control.
Like, you know, I I I totallyget that.
You know, in like stress, peopleuh um respond to stress
differently, right?
Like some people don't eat atall, some people you'll eat a
lot.
I think it just kind of dependson the person.
I remember when I was likestressed out with like school or
whatever, like tests coming up,I would eat a lot more.
I was just like stressed.

(20:29):
I'm like, let me just this issomething that's can like kind
of relaxes me and calms me down.
Let me turn to this thing.
So I I think that's I thinkthat's totally fair.
Do you think then that dealingwith that is the only way to
like move forward, or can theymove forward while still being
in that scenario, in thatsituation?

SPEAKER_03 (20:49):
What do you mean by moving forward?
Like moving forward in the waylosing.

SPEAKER_02 (20:52):
Making progress in like dealing with their
emotional eating.
Do they have to take care ofthat?
Do they have to take care of,let's say it's a work thing?
Do they have to leave that jobfirst?
Can they still will they stillmake progress if they don't
leave that job in terms of liketheir emotional eating, losing
weight, and all those things?

SPEAKER_03 (21:06):
So here's the hard part I've seen.
You know, because we live in thereal world, and the real world
is not black and white.
And and we usually are workingon competing initiatives and
needs.
We have families, we havefriends, we have economics uh
pressures on us.
And it's like even if you'veidentified you want to leave
your job, well, that might takea year or two for some people uh
to to make that happen, right?
They may have to go acquire askill, work on their resume,

(21:28):
they have jobs families they'resupporting, you know, like they
have this job.

SPEAKER_02 (21:31):
They need this what they need in the moment.

SPEAKER_03 (21:33):
Right.
Some people and so um the theanswer is not there's a right
answer.
The answer is start working onit.
And when we look at thestressor, is what I call that.
That would be identified as astressor.
There's only three ways to dealwith a stressor and that I've
been able to identify.
Number one is change thesituation and circumstances if
you can.

(21:53):
Sometimes you can't.

SPEAKER_02 (21:54):
Leave the job.

SPEAKER_03 (21:54):
That's like No, no, I would say change it would be
like um, let's say you're havinga problem with your boss, going
and seeing you can gettransferred to work underneath
somebody else, right?
You still have the job, butyou've changed the conditions.
The second one is make thecircumstance go away.
That would be the quitting thejob.
Oh, okay.
But let's use an example.
I've I have many clients thatdeal with this.
They have a special needs child,right?

(22:16):
You can't change thecircumstances and you can't make
it go away.
So this is going to be here.
That really only leaves optionthree, which is moving to a
place of acceptance and learninghow to cognitive reframe what
you're going through so that itactually doesn't stress you out.
And is and the problem is thatis that is the answer a lot of
times, and it is a really hardanswer uh to do, to just learn

(22:37):
to accept the is-ness of asituation so you can begin to
find peace in it.
And so success when working withemotional eating, I tell again,
I'm very transparent withpeople, like you are gonna be
dealing with this for I'm sevenyears of, I tell myself I'm
seven years sober of whateverthat even means, right?
And and I still feel like I'mworking on it.

(22:58):
So it's like, I'll let you knowwhen I feel like I'm done.
And seven years later, I don'tfeel like I'm done.
But I haven't lost my shit inthree years.
So the success in the beginninglooks like failure for a while.
And so there has to be a lot ofemotional work of learning how
to have a good, healthyrelationship with failure,
having a good community thathelps prop you up, learning how

(23:21):
to not be critical of yourselfwhen you mess up.
Because most people, whenthey're working on emotional
eating, a lot of people don'tactually think they're emotional
leaders, even though they'rethree, four hundred pounds like
they don't think they are.
Um and so a lot first we have tocreate an increase awareness to
the concept of emotional eating.
Then we have to create awarenessto, are you doing it?

(23:41):
But that is a form of awarenessI call retroactive awareness.
So I'm aware of something I did,but I already did it.
So it's cool, I'm aware of it,but I can't change it.
I already did it.
And we have to become aware I'memotional eating at the time I'm
doing it.
But what that what it what thatalmost always looks like is
like, I think I'm emotionallyeating this.

(24:02):
And then we eat it anyway.
And like all my clients when Ido one-on-one, that happens 100%
of the time.
And they get real frustratedwith themselves and we have to
be like, no, no, no, no, no.
You're on the right path, likeyou're doing the thing.
Now that you're aware you'redoing it, now in real time, now
we can begin trying to work onadopting some new coping
strategies.

(24:22):
And we can also find yourtriggers that are triggering you
to do it, and we can go and seeone of the three solutions, and
we need to start working on yourproactive stress management
techniques so that you're whenthe stressor shows up, you're
you're not quite as compromisedalready.

SPEAKER_01 (24:38):
It can be frustrating to try to deal with
this thing.
I refer to it as solving yoursolution because what we're
doing when we're emotionallyeating is ultimately taking care
of something.
It is self-care, it just has abad result.
It's like smoking.
It is a form of self-care, it'sa form of escaping your job for
a little while, you've got anexcuse to leave for a few

(25:00):
minutes, get some fresh air.
It just has a bad outcome.
So to take that thing awaywithout replacing whatever need
or um problem that it wassolving is is gonna leave you
feeling empty.
Every habit and action orinaction has reason.
There's a reason for somethinghappening or not happening.

SPEAKER_03 (25:19):
Yeah, and it and it always makes sense.
And one of the there's a I Iusually can do this on
one-on-one settings because alot of people feel tremendous
shame when they emotionally eat.
Um, I it's a post-emotional eatshame that that happens, and and
it's like they tend to kickthemselves.
I mean, I used to do this, likeI'd kick myself when I was down.

(25:40):
Like, what good does that do,right?
Shaming myself.
But I was the reality is I wastaught to do that.
I was taught to shame myself.
So I did.
And I would shame myself enoughtill I would finally get angry
enough and do something aboutit.
And and what's really difficult,I've realized, is people say I'm
self-sabotaging, but if youreally stop and think about
that, you can't self-sabotage.

(26:02):
That's not really the right wordbecause you're wanting to do it.
You chose to do it for a reasonthat probably you perceived
benefited you.
But if you're judging that sideof yourself, like you know, like
Rob, if you are you gonna openup to somebody that you think is
gonna try to shame you when youtell them an answer.
No, you're gonna call it.

(26:23):
Right.
You're gonna why would you whywould you, right?
So what I realize people will dois they won't be honest with
themselves about why they'reemotionally eating because the
moment they're honest, they feelshame.
And so we I have to really dosome work with people to help
create a neutral space of like,hey, it is okay that you did
this.
You don't need to feel bad.
We're just trying to understand.

(26:43):
One of the seven habits ofhighly effective people from
Stephen Covey's book seek firstto understand, then to be
understood.
And so rather than trying tomake ourselves so bad and just
for the fact that we even didit, let's just stop and go
within and go, why did I dothis?
And let's assume it made senseand let's assume it's because I
care about myself and find thatreason, and maybe we can find a

(27:07):
way to solve that that doesn'tneed food.
But if we if we don't create asafe space to open up to
ourselves, we won't.

SPEAKER_02 (27:14):
So I'm kind of wondering you were talking about
like the proactive things youcan do.
So I'm kind of curious like,what do you find with when
you're working with people?
Do you find anything that helpsthem in something before they
know like a trigger is gonnahappen?
So they is there anything theydo before that to set themselves
up?
So maybe in the future it has asmaller impact on them.

SPEAKER_03 (27:34):
I think of it like how first responders train.
You know, they train undercontrolled circumstances, under
clear mind, so that when theshit hits the fan, the actions
are automatic.
That's not the time to becritically assessing, like
you're gonna have to criticallyassess a situation, but the more
you can be on autopilot, thebetter.

(27:56):
So some of it is practicingthings like listening to your
own thinking.
Um, this is where I I'm a itwould not be an inaccurate way,
a thing for me to say, so I lost125 pounds.
I was fat my whole life untilwhen I was 34 and started
working on it.
It would not be unit would notbe a lie if I said I journaled

(28:17):
myself thin.
I use written journaling, I usedaudio journaling and video
journaling.
I have terabytes of videojournals.
No one will ever see them butme.
They're encrypted when I die,they'll go to the grave with me.
Um, but I just because Irealized some, don't ask me how,
I don't know how.
I just somehow I stumbled on it.
And I realized I was censoringmyself to myself.

(28:39):
I I gotta find, I've beensearching for it.
It's somewhere in all thesefiles.
I was talking to my videojournal and I pause and I go,
wait a minute.
I was about to tell this storycensored, but nobody's gonna see
this but me.
Why am I censoring it?
I was gonna re-present it in away that made me look good or
better.
And and I sat with that and Iwas like, okay, do I do that a

(29:02):
lot?
Like, do I censor my ownthoughts to myself?
But this is where the journalinghelped me to get really
introspective.
And why that's important isjournaling regular life,
journaling what I'm doing, sothat when I'm getting completely
stressed and overwhelmed, I'msort of automatically listening
to my own thoughts.
That's one example.
And so there's not like one timeyou do this, you just start

(29:23):
practicing being moreintrospective.
You practice being more mindfuland listening to yourself.
And that's why I think likewalking is such a powerful
thing.
Walk without headphones for 10minutes.
Like it's amazing what you'lllearn about yourself just
walking for 10 minutes withoutheadphones, just listening to
your own thinking.
But that dopamine hit that youwere talking about, Mike, right?
Like we go on a walk, it's like,oh, this isn't exciting enough.

(29:44):
I need to, I need to have ajuicy podcast in.
I need to have a great TikTok.
I need to be listened to anaudiobook.
It's like nothing wrong withyour mental brain candy, but
just listen to yourselfsometimes.
So that's one example.
Um, some other things are likeum uh my two biggest ones I tell
people is sleep.
Get enough quantity and qualitysleep every day.

(30:07):
And don't say, Oh, I don't onlyneed five hours of sleep.
I'm like, no, you you can't saythat.
You've been doing it for 10years.
Get eight, seven hours of sleepfor a year, and then you can say
it, you can compare.
Uh, because Because you mightjust be doing as good as you are
in spite of the fact you're notgetting enough sleep.

SPEAKER_01 (30:23):
Um and so like when I used to think I was just
nauseous all the time.
Like that was just a normal wayof living.
But no, I was just overeatingand hadn't given myself a chance
to not feel over full.

SPEAKER_03 (30:36):
And the other one is uh connection with people.
You know, in this technologyera, we've become less and less
and less and less connected withpeople, and we end up in our
echo chambers.
And a lot of people thatstruggle with weight, if you
look around their social life,and this is not universal, but
many will see that theirimmediate social network food is

(30:56):
a major part of their life, andwe have this need to belong.
And so part of my services thatI've done is actually to create
community.
I call them OSPs, like onlysupportive people.
So if you're gonna be working onyour health and your wellness,
only talk to people that aresupportive of you of doing this.
Don't even talk to the othersbecause um have you ever y'all
ever heard the story of crabs?

(31:17):
Put crabs in a bucket?

unknown (31:19):
Yes.

SPEAKER_02 (31:19):
Crabs in a bucket.

SPEAKER_03 (31:20):
Okay, Rob, Rob knows what I'm about to say.
So if you put one crab in abucket, it'll just climb right
out.
But if you put two crabs in abucket, the moment one starts
climbing up, the other will grabit and pull it back down.
And a lot of people got a badcase of crabs in their life.
And so whenever the time theytry, they're always trying to
change, but they're telling allthe dis the people about it that
are just trying to pull themback.
And it's like, no, no, no, justdon't, just let your walking do

(31:41):
the talking.
Like, don't, don't tell peopleyou're losing weight unless
they're completely supportive ofyour goal.
Because when you're strugglingand you're down, you don't need
people that are gonna be like,you're right, you've worked so
hard, you deserve a chair.
Like it could be a literalchair, but metaphorically
speaking, a chair, like, oh, youknow what?
Yeah, just have some food.
You've you've you've reallyearned this.

(32:02):
It's like, no, no, you needpeople to be like, I'm really
sorry you're going through this.
Would you like me to walk besideyou for a while?
Because you're not quitting,right?
Like, that's what people need.
And it helps them when they fallto look up and have someone next
to them that's like, I'm gonnabe here with you as you get up,
knock the dust off.
We're gonna say, What'd youlearn?
And we're gonna keep going.

(32:23):
And these things really help byand and learning that when you
start working on your problemsproactively, your stress levels
go down because uh Tony Robbinssays this progress equals
happiness.
So if you're not feeling happy,look at the thing that's causing
the unhappiness and go dosomething that gives you a sense
of progress, like you're workingon it.

(32:44):
So if you're struggling withyour job, it's amazing what just
working on your resume insteadof eating, how that would make
you feel better.
Uh, just because you're like, Iat least pulled it up and I
started the process of workingon it.

SPEAKER_02 (32:56):
I do I like all that, but I just wanted to make
sure before I forget it, I wantto go back to the the journaling
thing because I'm just gonna belike real with y'all.
Like I love the I love the ideaof like writing things down with
like you know, stone and chiselsand pen and paper, whatever it
is.
I don't do it.

(33:16):
Like I don't, I don't when Ihave to take out a pen and with
my hand like write things down.
I don't want I don't I don'tlike to do that.
I don't, I I don't I don't enjoyit, I don't do it.
If I tell myself I'm gonna doit, I don't.
I just don't.
So I like the idea.

SPEAKER_03 (33:33):
If you were to do it, what would you write?
What's that?
Well, if you were to do it, likeyou're picturing sitting down
with a pen and paper, but whatin you in this vision of what
journaling is, what are youwriting?
Is it like dear diary or is itsomething else?

SPEAKER_02 (33:46):
Um gosh, pretty much anything.
I feel I don't like the idea ofit, but even just like if I was
yeah, Liam's just picturing notwriting.
I just whatever gets me to notwrite things with my fingers and
you know, hands and that sort ofthing is better because I just
don't really like even liketyping, like I'll just like at

(34:08):
school, like I'd write somethingthat I don't I don't really care
for it.
I'm just gonna be I'm just gonnabe completely honest.
So that's why I'm like, hey, I'min the 21st century.
We have phones, we have cameras,I can talk to it, and I can put
emotion into that, and I justfeel that a lot more.
And that's why I started makingvideos, is because I have a lot

(34:28):
like I like to be like wacky andweird and do all these things,
and that comes through a loteasier for me in through through
a camera and through talking toit.

SPEAKER_03 (34:37):
Oh, I I agree completely.
I mean, I I do think for certaintypes of things, pen and paper
is gonna be ideal, but I don'tbut like you said, you you may
just not be in one of thosesituations where it makes sense
to do so.
Like, I I don't, but like you'reright, we live in the 21st
century.
Most of my journaling, that's Isaid I have a server in the
other room, terabytes of videojournaling, because of exactly

(34:59):
what you said.
I want to sit down and talk to acamera, and when I realized no
one's gonna see it, I wasactually willing to be far more
open.
Um like that.
Like instead of going to atherapist, I just could open up
and talk through what's goinghere.
So I got a GoPro, a dedicatedGoPro, and I got like a mount so
I could clip it to my rear viewmirror and I would just talk to
it uh while I go.

(35:20):
Um, but I also like on my phone,um I I keep what's uh what I
call my food noise journal.
So again, for me, I'm somebodythat the emotional eating, you
know, it really kind of got myit messed up my life.
And hold on, I'm pulling it uphere on my phone.

SPEAKER_02 (35:37):
So like I'll just because even like audio, like
talking, that's somethingdifferent.
Like it because I thinkjournaling, people think
journaling, okay, I sit downwith a fucking composite, but
whatever, what are those books?
I don't know, man.
Those like white the compositionbooks.
Composition, whatever it is.
I don't know.
Composite fucking, isn't thatfor your countertops?
I don't.

(35:58):
Whatever.
You think about you sitting downwith that and you're writing
with a fucking pen that dies,and you're gonna get another
one, you're like, I'll switch topencil, like you know, that sort
of shit.
And like I I like the idea oflike, well, I can just pull up
my phone or a camera or likesomething that records, and I
can just boom, there we go.
And that'll be easier.

SPEAKER_03 (36:14):
So here's this is this is my I keep a note in my
phone.
It's just called my food noisejournal.
So whenever I feel like the thevoice, I call it the other
voice, the other voice isshowing up trying to get me to
solve my problem with food.
Um I I don't I'm I'm not analcoholic, but I've heard
alcoholics talk about things.
I'm like, this sounds similar.

(36:35):
You know, I've talked togambling addicts, I'm like, this
sounds similar, but it's justthis urge that won't go away.
And so I pull out what I do andit won't go away.
One of the techniques I'll tryis I just pull out my phone and
I just type.
So this is I'll just read this.
This is from not this summer,but the summer before.
I just grabbed to a random one.
It says the desire toemotionally eat is strong.
In a um, in a moment, I remembera technique I used to do where I

(36:57):
would take care of my nails.
I decided to go buy a pair offingernail clippers, I was
traveling, and a nail file tosit outside and take care of my
nails.
The food noise is overwhelming.
My mind keeps flashing tomemories of me saying, fuck it,
and just grabbing whatever foodI can get.
But really, I'm wanting to turnto certain foods.
It's not because they're offlimits, it's because I like
them.
It's not because I think they'rebad, it's because I like them.
I don't really care.

(37:18):
I just want to eat the foodbecause it tastes good and I
want to not think about what I'mmad about.
I'm surprised how hard the noiseis to combat.
I'm very hot and wantedsomething to drink that didn't
have caffeine in it, and I'malso hungry.
And I'm here at a time wherethat I was otherwise going to be
preparing to eat, and I wantedto find a zero sugar Gatorade,
but I couldn't find one.
So instead I got a proteinshake.

(37:39):
My protein intake has beenbehind for the day, so it fits
my goals.
I suppose I could say that thiswas an emotional desire to have
something in my mouth, but thedesire to drink something
existed before the emotional.
So again, you can just see whereI'm just working out my
thoughts.
But I'll just sit and type thisbecause it's slowing me down.
It's slowing my thinking down inthe moment when I am like about

(38:00):
to lose it.
And the answer is I gotta slowmy thinking down.
And that's where like writing isactually better than talking
because the talking's too fast,and the objective is to slow
myself down so I don't go dosomething I'm gonna regret and
work myself into a frenzy.

SPEAKER_02 (38:15):
Okay.
So yeah, the idea is to well,you're feeling overwhelmed, so
you need something that willbring you down to like a lower
level, bring it down a couplenotches.

SPEAKER_03 (38:25):
Yeah, ground you to the present moment a little bit.
I like that.

SPEAKER_02 (38:28):
I get that.

SPEAKER_00 (38:29):
But but but you're right the problems that can be
solved by slowing down.

SPEAKER_03 (38:33):
Oh, so many problems.
Just do less.
Like not as much is happening ina present moment as we think it
is.

SPEAKER_02 (38:40):
And I think that's a product of like what we've built
for ourselves as a society.
Everything's just as fast aspossible.
We're constantly building toolsto do things faster, so we feel
like we need to do thingsfaster.
And I think it's normal to feelthat way, right?
Like you're like to get thingsdone as efficiently as possible.
That's capitalism.
Fucking everything has to be asefficient and go as fast as

(39:01):
possible.
So I think, yeah, bringing itlike there's a lot of like we we
cover like videos where peopleare like, you know, in the
woo-woo stuff, right?
And there's a lot of it, I'mlike, yeah, this is nonsense.
But there's some of it where I'mjust like, hey, get outside and
like be in nature, like youtouch the ground and like touch
a tree and breathe in air.
And I'm like, yeah, I'm withthat stuff.

(39:21):
I like that.
I think that can I think thatcan absolutely help a lot of
people.

SPEAKER_03 (39:25):
Yeah, I'm with you on the woo-woo stuff.
There's some real hippie dippywoo-woo shit out there that
people do with weight loss.
And again, some it's it'slayered with stuff that makes
sense, it's real, but then itgets to this, I'm just gonna
incant or I'm gonna have amantra say every day and I'll
lose weight.
I'm like, well, it's not gonnamatter if you don't change your
behavior.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (39:43):
But there's it again, it's grounded in things.
Like if you just take like thevery edges where it's kind of
built on like of all the stuffin the middle, you take all
these things on the side, you'relike, all right, well, you know
what?
I could, you know, I could getout in nature a little more, I
could go for walks, I could slowdown, I could take these breaths
when, you know, like all thesethings.
Like, yeah, totally.
I'm with that sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_03 (40:02):
Well, and like I I, you know, the last thing
somebody should do is just trustme.
Like, I say it's like, don'ttrust me, test me.
Like, like what you said, Liam.
I agree with you.
There's something to that's whyI love I'm trying I do trail
running.
I don't trail run for fitness.
I trail run because I feel likea better person when I go and
hang out in the woods and toucha tree.
I don't know why it works.

(40:23):
It works, so I keep doing it.

SPEAKER_00 (40:24):
As Liam walks away from us again, right?
I think you gotta do it.
You're just like, yeah, no, Igotta go touch a tree now.
But yeah, I love um getting outinto the woods.
It's uh one of the things that Ipersonally have not been able to
do as much as I like to, andit's a noticeable difference on
my same.

(40:45):
Nice to just especially, youknow, you take a weekend, go
camping, leave your devices athome, and just sit there in the
nature with you know, like yousaid, no headphones.
You can hear yourself think,relax around a fire, take it
slow.

SPEAKER_03 (41:01):
Yeah, I've gotten into um I'm training, I'm
ramping up.
I'm gonna do an ultra marathonnext year, trail running, and
it's like I love these things.
Like I just go out, I'm justit's just me, myself, the trees,
and my thoughts.
I have my headphones if I getbored and I want to listen to
something, but I I just feel somuch better when I've been out
there for 20, 30 minutes goingon a or I could just be going on

(41:23):
a walk.
Um, and or gratitude, uh a habitand a practice of gratitude is a
real big one.
Um, I think you know, when we'retalking about like these
proactive stress managementthings, it's like practice just
being grateful for what happens.
So like I love like this time ofyear is one of my favorite times
of year to go out in the woodsbecause it's like in the
mornings and the evenings, thesunsets and sunrises are just

(41:43):
amazing.
And I missed them for most of mylife.
And I love to stand in there andbe like, I'm so glad I'm here
looking at this.
Best show in town.

SPEAKER_01 (41:51):
There is, I have an opportunity here to say that I
do not put my earbuds in on awalk without hearing your voice
in my head telling me that Idon't need it, and that I should
just like be present in themoment.
I should train my brain to beindependent.
It's I don't know how long it'sbeen since I heard that from

(42:12):
you, but it has been in my headfor a long time.
And it's been very beneficial assomebody who has now been
putting this into practice, andagain, I do bring them with me
in case I you know it gets alittle boring or whatever, but
it it has been a good exercisein being present, and I have
noticed a bit more calm.
Well, if you think overtake me.

SPEAKER_03 (42:32):
If you think back before, we didn't have constant
media that was new media that wecould just listen to all the
time.
We had radio, which had ads.
We might have our CDs and ourtapes or whatever, but a lot of
us had a lot of sort of justbuilt-in downtime to think.
And the mind needs that toprocess what's what's happening.

(42:52):
You know, I think part of why alot of people struggle with
things like their jobs or theirrelationships or their finances
or their kids is they just don'treally have time to just sit and
process because we're alwaysdoing something with our mind.
Instead of just letting it go,okay, I went through this.
What do I think about it?
What do I feel about it?
How is this going on?
Or just sitting there doingnothing, just existing, sitting

(43:15):
in traffic, watching the lightschange and just pondering what
you're gonna do later.
I I think there's tremendousvalue in that.
Of and and we it now it seemslike, at least for me, I have to
purposely create that space alot of times now.
I don't just stumble upon thatspace like I did when I was
younger.

SPEAKER_00 (43:32):
I don't know, what about y'all?
I'm so grateful that I wasbrought up um fishing.
I've been fishing since I wasknee-high to a duck.
Um and you know, you you just goout there and you throw your
line in the water and that's it.
And you let your set your mindwander, and it's all about
learning patience.

SPEAKER_03 (43:54):
And I think and and also recognizing the difference
experience between men andwomen.
I mean, women speak on averagethousands more words per day
than men.
Um it is normal.
I mean, and so I think some ofit is also if a person is
someone they need to think bytalking, it's again finding
those because we don't do it asmuch as we used to, finding that
supportive person that's notgoing to try to make you do it

(44:15):
their way.
And then if you are somebodythat needs to talk out loud your
thoughts, find someone that'lllisten.
Um, or that's again where Ifound like the video journaling
or the audio journaling we werejust talking about, like is
really helpful.
Yeah, because you're right, Rob.
Just something just sittingthere fishing and thinking, or
like when I run, I'll I'll haveconversations with myself like a
crazy person in the woods.
I do that regularly.

(44:35):
Um, it's tremendously helpfulfor my mental health.

SPEAKER_00 (44:38):
Yeah, the uh I've seen a couple instances,
particularly lately, of peoplethat they have a lot on their
mind and they want somebody totalk to.
And it's a problem where they'lltry to talk to somebody and that
person will dismiss them orwon't listen properly, or that's

(44:59):
uh it's unfortunately what theyneed is somebody that will
listen.

SPEAKER_03 (45:03):
Oh, you're you're right on, and and it's because
you need someone that'll listenthat gives you just the right
amount of challenge that youneed in the moment, right?
Like they'll listen to you.
They may, you know, they maygently challenge you for feeding
yourself some bullshit.
Um but I think that's wherewe're seeing with these large
language models, you know, likeChat GPT and stuff, where people

(45:24):
are using it as a replacementfor that.
I I have my opinions and where Ithink that can get very out of
hand.
It's too self-aggrandizing.
But um I I agree with youcompletely, Rob.
Like people will go try to talkto somebody, but they're not
talking to a supportive person.
And and you almost feel worsefor talking to that person.
And and unfortunately for somepeople, it's their parents.

(45:47):
Like they go to talk to theirparents.
And um, Alex Ramosi saidsomething that I think is great
is don't get advice from peoplethat aren't already doing what
you want, right?
So if you're trying to work onyour money, don't go out to our
talk to your broke parents.
They're not gonna help you,they're gonna make you feel
worse, right?
And and you trying to win,they're gonna take that wrong.
And and so I think sometimeswhen we're talking to people

(46:09):
about our problems, yeah,sometimes we're also going to
people that just have somestinking thinking and and
they're not helping, they'remaking it worse to talk to them.

SPEAKER_00 (46:16):
Yeah, I've had plenty of uh interactions with
youth discussing how they wantto lose weight and they've
talked to their parents, andtheir parents have not been
receptive to it.
That's that's tough.

SPEAKER_01 (46:30):
It's and I Chris, I know that's everything broke.
Yeah, Liam just texted us andsaid everything's broken.
It's okay.
We've all got a plan B.
We can handle it.
Chris, you spend a lot of timewith your clients, a lot of
quality time with the peoplethat you work with one-on-one.
How many of them come to youready to tell you the things

(46:52):
that you know that they need tosay?
What I'm getting at is it howhow much work do you need to do
to show somebody that it is safeto start talking about this?

SPEAKER_03 (47:01):
So it depends.
Some people are so desperate tohave somebody hear them and talk
to them that the moment theyhave something they even
perceive to be a safe space,they just open up.
Um but those are more on therare side.
Um, I find most often they comethey're sort of how I was.

(47:22):
I had so much old toxic dietmentality stuff in my head, and
so much internalized shame as aas a tool to get myself to
change that it's not that theydon't feel safe with me.
There certainly is that.
You know, I have to buildrapport with them and things
like that.
But it's more they have to feelsafe with themselves.

(47:42):
And I mean, I've had to I've hadit with clients where it's like
I've had to be like they tell methey binge, and I'm like, it's
totally okay.
You did that.
They're like, no, Chris, it'snot.
I'm like, it's fine.
No, it isn't.
And we'll get into a back andforth.
And I'm like, no, really, it'sokay.
You don't need to feel bad.
I'm not saying you should do itagain.
I'm not saying it was helpful,but let's not look at let's stop

(48:02):
the moral judgment.
And and so what I find a lot ofit, it's it's not so much
helping them feel safe with me,although there is that, it's
helping them feel safe withthemselves.

SPEAKER_01 (48:11):
Um it's because they will show up a little guarded,
they'll want to do that thing ofgetting ahead of what you think
that they're gonna think or uhthey want to be a good student.

SPEAKER_03 (48:22):
Like I've had a lot of people, like I'll say, All
right, I just want you to do mystarting assignment with most
people is hey, for one week, eatwhatever you want.
Just every time you eat.
I mean, I mean every time, evenif it is one bite, you ask
yourself two questions.
Why am I eating and why am Ieating the thing I'm about to
eat?
That's it.
You got if you eat, don't eat,don't care.

(48:44):
Just ask those two questions.
And it is so normal that aperson will come back when we
meet our second week and like,so I did that, but I also looked
at my calories and I startedtracking calories, and I also
got an exercise program and Idid this, and I'll say, Hey, you
you paid me good money and youhired me as your coach.
Why are you doing that when Ididn't ask you to do any of
that?
And they're usually like, What?
They're thinking they're being agood suit.

(49:05):
I'm like, look, these are fine.
It's just why are you doingthat?
Because you're doing too much.
If I wanted you to do that, Iwould have asked you to do that.
I only wanted you to do thesetwo things because I don't, I
wanted you to get a win.
And I wanted you to do somethingthat we could build on, and I
wanted you to learn this.
Like, help me understand.
And this is where it they beginto realize it's like, okay, I
have to trust the process alittle bit.

(49:26):
And something that's I think theharder part, Mike, actually,
which you're kind of behind whatyou're describing, it's not so
much that they feel safe.
It's I need them to show up andtake their metaphorical cup.
And before they show up to thesession, they need to empty it
in their bucket outside the doorand come with an empty cup.
And then they can take what Idid and add it to what they
already know.

(49:46):
Instead, sometimes they want tocome up and tell me everything
they already know, which islike, it's okay.
It's just the more you'retelling me what you already
know, the less we're not gettingto where we need to get to.
And you're paying for this time.
And I mean, I'm not a therapist,so I'm gonna push back on that
if I think we're wasting yourtime here.
But to a certain extent, somepeople that's some people want

(50:06):
to spend a month just showingoff what they know, what they've
done.
And but I some of it I thinkit's because people don't
subconsciously want to get towhat they're dealing with.
And the other challenge I runinto, they begin to open up, but
what they're giving is um redherrings.
They're bringing up realproblems, but they're just wild

(50:27):
goose chases.
They're not the actual problem.
And so I almost always, whatevera client brings up, I dismiss
the first two or three problems.
I'd say, yeah, yeah, that'sgreat.
Let's get behind that.
Okay, cool.
That yeah, let's get behindthat.
Why are you doing that?
Like, because we got to get tosomething that makes them a
little uncomfortable to talkabout.
Because to get new results, wehave to work on the stuff you've
never touched.
If this feels like anything elseyou've ever done before, you're

(50:50):
gonna get results like you'vehad before.
This needs to feel completelydifferent.
I mean, you're 400 pounds.
I mean, what you've been doinghas not been working.

SPEAKER_01 (50:57):
And so we're also we're dealing with a lot of
people pleasers, which generallytends to be a factor in how we
get to be so heavy.
It's one of the only ways thatwe can satisfy the urge to ask
for something and receive it.
It's one of the only ways we canreally do anything, is just
getting food.
So when you have somebody newcome up to you uh for coaching,

(51:18):
it's this is something I'venoticed.
That first show-off periodbefore you kind of break them
down and show them like it'swe're good here.
You don't have to be perfect, isjust about getting ahead of
their expectations of what youare.

SPEAKER_03 (51:32):
Like, this is why I went to group though, uh as my
first entry point now.
I don't usually take on peopleone-on-one unless they've been
in one of my group programs.
Um, because some of it is weneed to normalize uh stumbling,
like just totally remove all thestigma.
And when you and all your peersare stumbling too, it makes it
not feel so bad.

(51:52):
Uh because you're like, oh, thisis normal.
This is just what we do.
We fall down and get back up.
Like, cool.
Like once I started makingfriends with fitness people, you
know, and I started seeing likepeople that have been fit all
their life, they just viewed itcompletely differently than I
did.
It just wasn't even the same.
Like, you know, talking in termsof motivation, like, what's
motivation got to do with it?
They're like, sure, when it I'mmotivated, I use it and I get

(52:12):
more results, but likemotivation not required.
I mean, but and if I don't workout for two months, okay.
I don't worry about it.
I just start working out if Iwant to.
Like it, there's just a certainsense of neutrality to it.
And so in a group dynamic, Ifind that can really help kind
of bring people back to this,like this stop judging and

(52:33):
trying to do the right thing somuch.
Um and so that way by the timeI'm working with them, they're
more uh they're more just kindof ready to get down to work, is
is usually what I found works alot better.
Because one-on-one, it's like wecome and we meet, but then we
don't talk again so for a week.
Like, and then they'rerecounting everything from the

(52:54):
week with imperfect memory andthey're deceiving themselves,
and unfortunately, by extension,deceiving me.
Um, it's just not as productive.
So, my one-on-one practice, Ionly take two people at a time
and we talk every day for awhile.

SPEAKER_01 (53:09):
Yeah, it's sometimes people need that.
I've had a couple of cases whereI've spoken to people every day
because they really do needthat.
And when you say the work,you're not talking about just
stay on top of your calories andhere's how to work out.
Like what you're doing ismarkedly different from just the
average personal trainingprogram.

SPEAKER_03 (53:28):
Oh, you have to earn I tell people when you come to
work with me, you have to earnthe right to track calories.
You have to demonstrate to meyou even you even deserve to.
Like most people, Mike, you gotno business tracking calories.
Like you're you're over heretrying to jump to jump to
physics and you haven't evenfigured out how to do basic
math.
Like, but it's humbling.
I mean, it's gosh, me losingweight, I I still remember going

(53:52):
to thin people that are all Ifor the first time in my life, I
decided I'm gonna go ask peoplethat have always been in shape
and go, they gotta knowsomething I don't know.
But I've always I had all theanswers, so I didn't go ask
anybody.
And I just remember the firsttime I'm sitting down with my
brother, I'm like, how do youdecide what to eat for lunch?
Like that was a humbling thingto ask my younger brother.
And then to say, like, what doyou do if you notice your weight

(54:14):
goes up?
Like, how do you handle it?
I'm not trying to tell him whatI do, what I think, or nothing.
I'm just an empty cup trying toget whatever he can give me.
And it was very humbling,especially when the answers were
really simple.
The number of people that werethin that told me the way they
manage their weight is by usingtheir clothes shocked me.
I was like, what do you mean?
You just use your clothes?
It's like, yeah, I got my fatpants.

(54:35):
If I'm wearing my fat pants, Ikind of cut out some lunches and
snacks.
And then when I'm getting backin my skinny pants, I don't
worry about it.
I'm like, that's Iovercomplicate this.
I don't know, Rob, what aboutyou?
I don't know.
Uh what's your background?
How do you, how do you, how doyou uh, how do you how do you
maintain your your physique?
What do you do?
Like, how do you monitor it?

SPEAKER_00 (54:52):
I stress a lot and I don't I'm the person that
doesn't eat when they'restressed.
Right, but that's normal for alot of people.
Um I'm just an active person.
I like to get up, I like to DIY,I like to um get out for walks,
walk my pet cat, go kayaking, gocamping.
I like to do all these sorts ofthings.
That's and that's where the umthe myth of uh high metabolism,

(55:16):
you know, people that have highmetabolisms.
Like those people are usuallyjust more active.

SPEAKER_03 (55:23):
Right.
I um the the core kind ofphilosophy behind everything I
do is your body is a byproductof your lifestyle, habits,
routines, environment,community, and belief systems.
All six of these things createyou.
And it's like if you want to bethin, healthy, happy in shape,
you need to change those sixthings.

(55:43):
And we need to do it for reasonsthat have nothing to do with
weight loss.
Like, like I don't run to managemy weight.
I'm aware that it helps memanage my weight, but I run
because I like being in thewoods.
Like, I imagine you go camping,Rob, because you like camping.
I imagine is why you do it.
You're not doing it.
I'm gonna be active, and this isgonna make me manage my weight.
I imagine you don't think thatway.

SPEAKER_00 (56:03):
Uh no.
No, I'm gonna go camping becauseI uh I want to lose weight.
I'm up five pounds.

SPEAKER_01 (56:09):
He goes fishing because he wants to hurt fish.
That's what he likes.
He goes out of the leg saying,screw you all specifically.
You are beneath me, literally.
Yeah, it's it I I always tellpeople if you don't enjoy what
you're doing, if you're doing itas a means to an end, stop doing
it.
What benefit are you looking toget from the thing you're doing?
Find the most enjoyable way toget that benefit and do that.

(56:32):
Doesn't matter if it's the mostoptimal thing.

SPEAKER_03 (56:36):
Yes, yes, add to your life, not take.

SPEAKER_00 (56:40):
Going back to I'm an active person, um, I I started
streaming on Twitch a lot thisyear, and it's not a case of I'm
just sitting in front of thecomputer.
If if chats hyping up and uhlike a good song comes on the
other week, um uh the danceremix of spooky scary skeletons

(57:01):
came on.
And I got up and I just starteddancing.
Like I didn't who cares?
Right?
I looked like a fool, but whocares?
Who cares?
Got a good laugh, I got somemovement in.
It was great.

SPEAKER_03 (57:13):
Uh no, and it's it's interesting.
Like so when I lost my weight,you know, so 26 months to do
that, which where I was used tolike dropping 10 pounds just by
uttering the word diet and thencutting out all carbs and
exercising to death and justmelting the weight off, and then
it'd come back, right?
And of course I couldn't do thatvery long because it sucked.
Um, it's like you gotta do allthe things that create a thin,

(57:36):
healthy, in-shaped body, but doit for reasons that have nothing
to do with that.
Like, don't make it about that.
Or like say no to food, but notso that you'll lose weight.
Like, do it for some otherreason.
Um, and it's yeah, it's it's uhit's interesting to like as I
had to do that, and I startedrealizing activity can just be

(57:58):
super fun if I make it fun.
Because when I would be like,Oh, I have to go work out, and I
would like to do it the mostmiserable way possible.
It's like, well, what if I justfound a form of exercise that I
actually liked, even if it's notvery effective, but I like it,
so I'll keep doing it.
Like, I'll do that one.

SPEAKER_01 (58:15):
I I don't eat two pints of Ben and Jerry's in a
row because I genuinely don'tlike doing that anymore.
If I want to have Ben andJerry's, I can, but I typically
just don't want it.
Not, I'm not restricting myself.
I'm not saying I can't havethat.
If I want to, I will, but I justdon't want it.
There are other things I wantmore.

SPEAKER_03 (58:35):
You're not kidding yourself, right?
Yeah, you know what you'resigning up for.
You're signing up for thefeeling after, too.

SPEAKER_01 (58:40):
Yeah, because it's I st I've started to associate
that, ah shit, I feel awfulfeeling with eating a fuck ass
amount of ice cream.
So it's like now that beingsaid, I love my ice cream.
I just get it from other places,I get smaller amounts.
Um, I make it with my ninjacreamy, that thing's great.
Uh there are plenty of ways toenjoy the thing that you're

(59:02):
having.

SPEAKER_03 (59:02):
Well, and I think some of it is is having the
presence to know I am not in theright frame of mind to be
engaging in ex behavior.
So, like for me, like let's takecheeseburgers.
I love cheeseburgers.
Cheeseburgers are great, but Iknow that when I'm not in a good
place emotionally, I should notgo have a cheeseburger.
Um, much like probably, youknow, you know, because it's

(59:24):
like I I I can't be sure that A,I'm gonna behave, but B, I may
go layering in a bunch of stuffon this emotionally.
So it's like I can have acheeseburger tomorrow.
Not today.
Today's not a my this is not theright moment to do this.
Um with alcohol.
I have no problems with alcohol.
Um, I don't drink it muchbecause I just I find it affects

(59:45):
my performance for running inways I don't like.
Um, but if I'm not in a goodplace emotionally, I tell myself
I I can't have alcohol.
It doesn't matter.
Doesn't matter the reason Ican't have any, because I I
can't be sure that I'm not justrunning from my feelings right
now.
And and that's you know,especially being a dude growing
up, I was not taught to processmy feelings.

(01:00:06):
I was taught to just to takethem, wad them up in a little
bowl, and just bury them downdeep and pretend they're not
there.
That's what I was taught to do.
So I did that, and that, youknow, didn't work.
Didn't work.

SPEAKER_00 (01:00:15):
Also, I want to make non cheeseburger day.
That's where you go and visitthe journaling.

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:20):
Right.
Or it's like chicken.
It's like I love when peoplevilify fast food and chicken
sandwich, like fried chickensandwiches or cheeseburgers.
I'm like, I have these thingsall the time.
It's like, and I'm fine.
I just don't have three of themanymore.
What at a time when I'm notemotional?

SPEAKER_01 (01:00:35):
You're uh your younger brother David, who you
were just talking about a momentago, did not have these same
struggles with weight.
He had the same upbringing, sameparents.
Uh and it still he didn'tdevelop the same issue.
Have you identified why that youwould struggle with it, but he
wouldn't?

SPEAKER_03 (01:00:52):
Oh uh yeah, actually that's that's a recent thing.
I figured that out uh this year.
I've been trying to figure outlike why did I start turning to
food?
Uh because I know approximatelywhen it was when I was 15, 16,
right around there.
Because if I looked when I wasyounger, now don't get me wrong,
like I definitely had thought Iwas a bigger kid um than I was.

(01:01:17):
Like I had that thought in myhead that I'd be fat when I
wasn't, but I was I by andlarge, I was when as I was
getting into high school, I wasbecoming more comfortable with
my body.
And so I was um, I'm not Mormonnow, but like I was raised very
Mormon and I moved a lot as ayounger kid.
Like I went to five elementaryschools.
Um and so I made it to Chicagoand I went to middle school and

(01:01:41):
started high school there.
And for the first time in mylife, I felt like I belonged.
Nobody gave a shit that I wasMormon.
Nobody cared.
Um, whereas before I was livinglike in the Bible belt in the
South, people very much caredand felt the need to tell me
about it.
Um, and I would be ostracized,right?
So I didn't know how to handleit.
And then I was the new kid thatmoved in, and you know, so I

(01:02:01):
never really felt like Ibelonged.
And for the first time in mylife, I'm feeling like I
belonged.
And um I'm I'm in a great highschool.
I'm planning my future.
So I'm not only am I likingwhere I'm at, I'm loving where
I'm heading.
And without warning, I found outwe're moving from Chicago, where
the town called Batavia in thesuburbs, uh, to Jonesboro,

(01:02:23):
Arkansas, which where I livenow.
And I was gonna lose all this.
And it was gonna happen now, andthere was nothing I could do.
I was completely powerless toit.
And I found myself back again inthe Bible belt, the weird Mormon
kid, uh that again, people verymuch cared.
You know, I'd have people cometo school.
I could always tell them thelocal church of Christ is doing
anti-Mormon day because mysupposed friends would show up

(01:02:44):
with their pamphlets to try todestroy my systems of belief
against my will.
Um so like this is the sort of Ididn't really have any friends
very well.
Uh the church community I was inwas really small.
I was mad about the school bycomparison I went into.
I went came from an amazingschool district to one that just
sucks.
I mean, just sucks.
And it's I mean, sucks.

(01:03:06):
Um and so I didn't have thatsense of belonging anymore.
I didn't have that sense ofcommunity.
I didn't have that sense ofcertainty in my future, and it
and so I started turning tofood.
And and this was also about thetime video games, Xbox was
coming out, and online gamingwas not quite there yet.
It was a few years away, I thinkprobably, but I pro I got into

(01:03:26):
that promptly.
But I started losing myself invideo games, movies, and food.
And everything in my lifestarted having lots of food, and
but I was the only one doing it.
Like my friends, the few I had,my family, like so, but this
only made me feel more like anoutsider.
But it was always there for me.

(01:03:47):
And and it's it really beganthen, and then more things in
life happened as I kept gettingolder, and I just anytime life
would get better, but when thenlife would get hard, you know,
hello, my old friend.
And I, you know, I remember onetime in my early 20s, I was
finally feeling like I wasgetting my life on a good path,
and I got married for far tooyoung for all the wrong reasons

(01:04:07):
to the absolute not right personwho a week after we got married
looked me right in the eye andsaid, I don't, I don't think I
love you.
I don't feel butterflies when Ilook at you.
I'm 24 and my wife's saying thisto me.
I have no concept of how toprocess this.
I have no concept of how to doit.
Um, and I remember later thatweek I was at the grocery store,
end of the day, grocery storedonuts, and I'm looking at them

(01:04:29):
and I'm like, why do I evencare?
Why do I even care about takingcare of myself?
You know, this is supposed to bethe good times right here, and
and it sucks.
So I'm gonna have this donut andI'm gonna get two of them.
And I ate them both on the wayhome, threw away the receipt in
the bag, and then I just keptdoing it.
Um, I kept doing stuff likethat.
I just I just kept turning tofood and it was a lot of secret
eating because I didn't letpeople know, but then I just I'm
getting bigger, and that onlymade me then I was like, why am

(01:04:52):
I hiding it?
I'm a fat guy, fat guys eat, soI just kept eating.
But I didn't think it wasemotionally eating, you know.
I I was no concept, nobody wastalking to me about it.
Uh so that's that's reallythat's the where I've been able
to pick that it started.
I I can't really identify anyparticularly bad food habits,
other than I just was a pickyeater um prior to about late 15,
early 16 years old.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:13):
It's interesting how these things develop because I
I'm in a similar situation.
My younger brother did notstruggle with his weight, and I
did.
Same upbringing, same town.
We didn't move either.
So it was just where we were.
And yeah, I I struggled with it.
I still, like we were talkingabout before, there it's still
kind of a battle.
It's become an easier one, onethat we have tools for and that

(01:05:35):
we're more well equipped for,but it it's still a a conscious
effort.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:05:39):
Especially in difficult times.

SPEAKER_03 (01:05:41):
Yeah, and I, you know, I didn't I didn't get into
fitness the same way.
I didn't get into, you know, Iwish I had discovered fitness
when I was younger and couldhave built some muscle and
fitness on those the Iunderstand the phrase now, youth
is wasted on the young.
It was wasted on me.
Uh trying to trying to get fit,you know, now as a 40-year-old.
I mean, still very doable, butjust I am aware that I am not

(01:06:03):
25.
And I'm aware I neglected mybody for 25 years.
So um I feel it.
But it's yeah, you know, the thebeauty though is I've realized
it's never too late to turn itaround and start making your
situation better.
It's never too late.
You can always just stop, turnaround, and just say, I'm gonna
start making it better fromhere.
I'm gonna stop making thisworse.

(01:06:24):
And when I discovered how greatyou can make your body, the
world became opened up to me.
Like, you know, Rob, you'retalking about camping and stuff.
I would not have camped before.
It was too miserable.
Now I I'm camping.
I love camping.
I love going out in the worldand an adventure.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:38):
When are you doing a guild camping adventure?

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:40):
I don't know.
I've thought about it.
I've thought about doing somecamping adventures.
I've thought about it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:06:45):
You should talk about the guild real quick too.
Let everybody know what it is.

SPEAKER_03 (01:06:48):
So I do a my I have a community um that's my group
program, but one of the aspectsthat I've really layered into it
is doing in real lifeexperiences together.
So we do tough mutters.
I take, I take 300-pound50-year-old women on Tough
Mudders.
It's awesome.
Um, I mean, not just I mean,there's other, we have a whole

(01:07:09):
spectrum of people, but um, wedo those, we do hikes, we do um
5Ks together.
Um, I'm going to Kansas Citynext weekend to do a scavenger
hunt with people that I've linedup where we're, you know, people
will come, they'll get 20,000,30,000 steps, you know, per day
for two days, and they're doingit with a bunch of people.
It's kind of like what you'retalking about, Rob.
Like I figured I was like, howcan I make movement fun?

(01:07:32):
Just let's just make it fun.
And the movement just is abyproduct, and it's and it's
turning into such a wonderfulthing and giving people this
sense of belonging and doing itwith people that look like them,
right?
They're on the same journey, andthere's something empowering
about being able to hang outwith somebody that's you know,
your age, your height.
You know, let's say you're a45-year-old woman or a

(01:07:53):
35-year-old dude, and you're400, 300 pounds, but you're
seeing someone your age and yourheight, and they're 150 pounds,
and they've been in the programfor a couple of years, and
you're like, well, well, maybe Icould do that.
Like it's something about givingpeople a vision of what they
could become.
Because so many people I'll askthem.
I don't know if you you all dothis, but I'll ask people when I

(01:08:15):
first meet with them, what'syour goal weight?
You know, and let's say aperson's, you know, said
35-year-old male, uh, 325pounds.
You know, I'll ask them almostevery time, let's say they're
5'10, they'll they'll say like,I don't know, maybe 210, 220.
So I'll ask him, they're like,well, at 5'10, you know, I'm
5'10, I'm 170, just out ofcuriosity, why not 170?

(01:08:35):
It's okay if you want to stop at210, but why not 170?
And they'll always say somethingalong the lines of, well, I
haven't been 170 since I was inmiddle school.
They're like, they can't evencomprehend what they look like.
And so they don't even want toset their sights on it because
it's like this doesn't seemfeasible.
I mean, I I crossed 200 at as afreshman, so never saw it again
for until a while.

(01:09:03):
Yeah, and that's the thing likeI've realized when I started
hanging out with people that arein the fitness world, I realized
success is an expectation, youknow, and they don't think in
terms of weeks, they think interms of half years, years.
I mean, when I started learninghow long people do bulking and
cutting phases for, it's like,oh, I had no, I had no concept
of it of what people would dofor a for a fitness phase.

(01:09:26):
Like, you know, I do a runningblock.
I mean, I I'll do running thingswhere I don't expect to make
results for a year.
I mean, or well, see the mainresult, right?

SPEAKER_01 (01:09:34):
I mean, obviously making progress along the way,
but that's just how it is withmuscle building, changing your
body at all.
And it's it that continues thethe disbelief that something's
going to change even after youlose all the weight.
I just put on my 5K medal.
I ran a 5K with you in Chicagoand Chris.
And I I don't know if I've toldyou this story or not, but it
when I tell this story, I willtell people that I made the

(01:09:56):
mistake of starting a 5K next toChris Terrell.

SPEAKER_03 (01:09:59):
You did make that mistake because you were you
were gonna walk it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:10:03):
I was gonna walk it and you knew that.
I don't know if you positionedyourself there because you knew
that, or just because we werehaving a good conversation.
But as soon as they fired thegun, or I don't think they even
fired a gun, they might havejust yelled at us to start
going.
Um you looked over at me and yousaid, So you're gonna run this
thing, right?
And I said, God damn it.
I could have started 15 feetback and I would have walked the

(01:10:25):
rest of it.
But he said, just all you haveto do is run, just run as much
as you can.
You don't have to run the wholething.
Just run as much as you can.
And in that moment, I decided,okay, I'm going to try to run a
mile uninterrupted.
Now, to many people out there,that might not be a big deal.
I've never done that.
So I had already lost all theweight.
I'd been in shape at that point.

(01:10:46):
I had been making a living for ayear or so at that point,
helping people to lose weightwith plenty of success under my
belt and theirs.
And I'd never run a mile, and Ididn't believe that I could.
And that day I pushed it.
I really did.
And it's it sucked the next day.
We were uh still active the nextday, and I was sore.
But I ran that mile and theninterspersed in between.

(01:11:10):
I just tried to run as much as Icould after that, taking little
breaks in between.

SPEAKER_00 (01:11:15):
Well, it's our our limited 5k in Texas next month.

SPEAKER_01 (01:11:19):
Yeah, we're gonna do another 5k in Texas.
Uh Rob's coming out here toTexas.
Oh, sweet.

SPEAKER_03 (01:11:23):
We're doing a you know, the our limit, our
physical limit I've seen isusually far further than we
think it is.
I mean, it's usually way furtherout.
Most people don't actually gofind their limits.
Like they're they're actual,real, like you dropped, cannot
move anymore limit.
Um, and when you feel thatfeeling, it's like, oh, that's
what that feels like.

(01:11:44):
So I'm I'm training, I'm rampingup to do another thing next
year.
I did it not this year, but theyear before.
Um, I know Mike, you're familiarwith it.
Rob, I don't know if you've everheard of it.
It's called the four by four by48.
Oh, yeah.
So it's you run four miles everyfour hours for 48 hours.
And by the time you're done, youwill have run 48 miles.
Um do one.
And so I'm doing it next uh nextyear in um March.

(01:12:08):
And it uh it's one of thosethings.
It's like I the first time I didit, I was like, I don't know if
I can do this.
Like, I I don't I don't know ifI can.
And there were so many timeslike I'd wake up and it, you
know, it's like four in themorning, and I'm about to do
another run, and I'm like in adaze.
And I go outside and I rememberone run.
I took my first step and it feltlike electricity, painful

(01:12:31):
electricity was shooting from myfoot all the way to the top of
my head and back down to my footagain.
And I took my next step and itdid it, and it did it that way
for like half a mile.
I could I literally physicallycould not run.
And I'm like, I don't know whatI'm gonna do.
I mean, I'm gonna keep movingfor 45 minutes at least.
Like, I'll get as far as I can.
And I remember I'm walking and Imade it to a mile, and I'm like,
I can jog a little bit.

(01:12:52):
And then I ended up running therest of the dang thing.
And I was just like, I didn'tthink I could do this.
And then, like, same thing thathappened several times where I'm
starting a run, and I'm like, Ican't do it.
I I can't.
I can't do it.
And and I'm like, but let's justlet's go fail.
And then I did it.
And I was like, what?
This is crazy.
Um, you know, I mean, I havedone other things where I
failed.
I did an ultra marathon on I a50 miler and I failed at mile

(01:13:14):
36.
But it's like, go find yourlimits, and it's it's such a
rewarding thing to just go gotest yourself and see what you
can do.
And when you just keep testingyour limits, you the body is
amazing how well it responds tothat.

SPEAKER_01 (01:13:27):
We will always be challenging our beliefs no
matter what.
It's you can it the numberdoesn't fix anything, you fix
the things.
It's everything.
It's if you are trying to workon your willpower, which is one
of the reasons that a lot ofpeople turn to the three of us,
is they feel like they don'thave willpower.
You're still gonna have to buildthe belief that you are in
control of it.

(01:13:47):
It's gonna take a while, you'regonna need some smart coping
mechanisms and strategic copingmechanisms, but you are gonna be
the one in power.
So likewise, you can't rely on anumber to fix your problems.
You're gonna get to that numberand have your problems fixed by
doing things to fix it along theway.
Yeah, it's it's gotta be thatway.
You are in control of all of it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:08):
Yeah.
Now, Rob, what uh what what'syour stumble along the way too?
Totally.
A lot.
I want to go back to that.
You uh you have people do thegroup thing first so that they
can, you know, stumble together,see each other, see it, all
that.
Um that's one thing we wehighlight here on the podcast,
which uh conveniently anotherincident happened today where

(01:14:30):
Liam Liam's computer just blewup.
You know, things happen.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:34):
Things happen.

SPEAKER_00 (01:14:35):
And we love to just leave that stuff in so people
can see that, yeah, even on aprofessional ish-ish, in quotes,
podcast, um, things are gonna gowrong.
And we just laugh about it andmove along.

SPEAKER_03 (01:14:51):
Totally.
I am I have uh dysgraphia, soit's words come, it's like
reverse dyslexia, right?
Stuff comes out jumbled.
Um, so as a result, writing andspelling for me is actually
tremendously I'll misspellsomething.
I just have no concept that I'vemisspelled.
I just can't, I literally can'tsee it.
Um, it's weird.
But at first, I just havetremendous feelings about it in

(01:15:12):
the past, but like now doingwhat I do, I do presentations
all the time and whatnot, and alot of visuals, and I'll like
I'll catch the typo or whatever.
I'm like, don't care.
And it's even gone so far that Istarted putting typos in on
purpose.
Uh just to be like, you knowwhat?
No, we're not gonna let thingsbe perfect because perfect is
stupid.
Perfect is pointless.
I don't do perfect.
I I I do I do like close enoughfor a lot.

(01:15:34):
Like I'll do perfect and I won'tquit, but uh you gotta be
careful where you throw theperfect word down on.
I mean, I don't do perfect, I doprogress.
Exactly.
Exactly.
The um just get back and part ofit I've realized too is a
willingness just to get back up.
Like you said when you stumble,just get back up, just keep
going, it'll be fine.
I mean, I I used to do uhwoodworking as a hobby.

(01:15:59):
I liquidated that many yearsago.
But I remember I was watching avideo from a really talented
woodworker, and uh his name'sMark Spagnolo, the wood
whisperer on YouTube.
But he was talking about he saidthe the difference between like
great woodworkers and and thosethat aren't, he goes, it's not
that the great woodworkers don'tmake mistakes.
He goes, they make lots ofmistakes.
The difference is they know howto adapt.

(01:16:20):
They know how to make the toincorporate the mistake, they
know how to repair the mistake,they know how to finish the
project.
Whereas then I'm sitting herewatching, it's like when I would
make a mistake, I'd put theproject away, wouldn't come back
to it for six months.
So, Rob, what what kind offitness do you do?
Like what's your what's yourwhat's your thing, you know,
that you do for fitness?
Like, are you a lifter?
Are you uh uh endurance?
You just an active guy.
What do you do?

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:41):
He used to be 600 pounds.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:43):
You used to be 600 pounds?

SPEAKER_01 (01:16:45):
No.
Oh I have no idea where Mikepulled that from.
He's like, what?
No, he's never struggled withhis weight.
Motherfucker.

SPEAKER_00 (01:16:53):
I was I was I struggled with my weight in the
other direction.
I was severely underweight.

SPEAKER_03 (01:16:58):
Oh.
Was that um I mean, are youcomfortable with asking a couple
questions?
Of course.
Um, I mean when you sayunderweight, like what like what
does that mean?
Like, like size-wise.

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:10):
Umis was uh six foot and 120 pounds.

SPEAKER_03 (01:17:15):
Oh wow, yeah, that that definitely fits the bill.
Underweight.
How did how did you um how hardis it to come come out of that?
Like, was that a long journey?

SPEAKER_00 (01:17:24):
Um It was I I don't want to say a long journey.
It was just very much findingthe right education.
Particularly, um that was I wasstarting to work on it during
the height of um production ofuh body types, and so I got fed
all this uh urine ectomorph orendomorph, which one is it?

(01:17:45):
Ectomorph.
No endomorph v-shred stuff.
I don't remember.
Anyway, I got fed all thatbullshit, and um they were like,
oh, you have to exercise in thismanner, and you have to eat in
this manner, and none of thatactually worked.
Um I was not getting enoughprotein, I was not pushing
myself hard enough.
It wasn't until I actuallylearned a lot more about how um

(01:18:12):
muscle growth works andimportance of protein and all
this stuff that I actuallystarted to put on muscle and
weight.

SPEAKER_03 (01:18:21):
Was that what kind of what was that motivator that
I mean to go to I mean to getfrom there to a much healthier
weight?
I mean, you know, you thatthat's some eating and some
lifting, right?
I mean, what what what pulls youthrough that journey?

SPEAKER_00 (01:18:32):
Um well, it was kind of in the background for the
longest while and then wentthrough a a rough breakup,
because everything always has tostart with a breakup, right?
Went through a rough breakup anda very rough uh series of
depression, bad thingshappening.

(01:18:53):
And at that moment of looking atmy life and being like, I'm just
laying around right now, I don'tfeel healthy, I don't have
energy, I want to change that.

SPEAKER_03 (01:19:05):
And so just so for you it was really about that
quality of life, then like Idon't like this feeling and I
want to feel some other way.
Yeah, yeah.
So I imagine it was how quicklylike when you started coming
back, like how quickly did youstart feeling the positive
effects of eating enough proteinand working and moving,
challenging your body hardenough?
Was it pretty fast?
Pretty quickly.
I imagine.

(01:19:25):
Yeah.
Was that a did you get hooked onthat feeling?

SPEAKER_00 (01:19:28):
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Uh for a while there.
Um Jim was my uh my personalityfor like three hours a day.
Got pretty damn big at onepoint.
Yeah?
How big did you get?
I got uh I don't really reallytook any measurements.
I've seen photos and my youknow, the delts are just blown

(01:19:50):
up and fair size bicep and allthat.
But then I hit the the point ofokay, well, I've done this and
I'm not happy about all thiseffort that I'm putting in.
I like the exercise, but I tookit too far.
Like I said, I made it mypersonality.
Yeah.
So at that point I dialed itback, and now I'm usually at

(01:20:13):
this point hitting the gym threetimes a week for an hour and
keeping active with everythingelse.

SPEAKER_03 (01:20:19):
Yeah.
Yeah, I um I felt that when Iwas losing weight.
Um, I I I felt myself doingthat.
I was making fitness and takingcare of my body like my entire
identity.
And then when I started doing itfor a living, I don't know if
y'all have ever have y'all everrun into this like because
there's such crossover with theprofessional, like sometimes you
feel like you're not it's it'sbleed, it's it's bleeding into

(01:20:41):
your entire identity.
Do y'all ever feel that?
I know I sometimes do.
I'm like, am I taking care of mybody for myself or am I taking
care of it for my brand in theaudience?

SPEAKER_01 (01:20:49):
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
It's it's something I'm actuallygetting reached on.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I I it's I've had to work.
Oh, go ahead, Mike.
I was just gonna say it's beentough.
It's something I've been dealingwith recently.
It's funny that you mentionedit.

SPEAKER_03 (01:21:00):
Yeah, it's hard.
It it's hard to do that thatseparation, I think, you know,
with people that do what do whatwe do posting about it.
Because our I I remember talkingto a friend uh when I first
started doing this, I was like,I'm really struggling that my
body is a part of my brand.
Like I'm yeah, I'm strugglingwith this because it's like
sometimes I just want to like Iremember the first time I was

(01:21:22):
lean and I just you know, I waslike the first time I'd like
kept a six-pack for a year, andI was like, this is awesome.
And then after a year, I'm like,there's a price of keeping a
six-pack all year.
And I'm I don't know that I wantto pay the price.
I don't mind a four-pack, but Iremember having tremendous
internal resistance of like,what will people think of me if
I put on a few pounds?
You know, like I had to reallysit with that.

SPEAKER_00 (01:21:44):
I know when I uh dialed it back and started to
put some of the fat on.
And obviously, I'm not callingmyself fat, but put some back
on.
There were comments about how Iwas had put on weight and had
gotten fat, and every responseto that was always I was like, I
am six foot and I am 180 pounds,I'm happy with my life, my blood

(01:22:06):
work is pristine, and you'retrying to tell me I'm unhealthy.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:10):
Isn't that crazy how people do that?

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:12):
Just because I don't have a six pack, right?

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:14):
And a six pack doesn't mean you're healthy.
No, absolutely not.
What really helped wake me up tothat, do y'all do y'all ever
watch Dr.
Mike on YouTube or see hisstuff?

SPEAKER_00 (01:22:23):
Yep.
One.

SPEAKER_03 (01:22:25):
Do what?
Which one?
Oh, uh the like Isratel?
Yeah.
Isretel?
No, oh right.
No, not Isratel.
Uh the medical doctor.
Um okay.
Yeah, the the the the the cuteone of the two.
But definitely not mine.
This is in his earlier days.
Um, and I was watching him whenI was on my journey, and at the
time he had just this incrediblephysique and he was showing

(01:22:47):
everything.
And I'm so glad he made thisvideo.
He's and he came and made thisvideo how his health markers
were actually really out ofwhack.
Like he had his checkup and hisblood work done.
He's like, No, my cholesterol'sout of this.
And I remember there was a fewother things.
And he talked about like, andthis kind of was, you know,
look, you know, people wouldlook at me and think that I'm
this model of health.
And but no, like just becauseyou have muscles and you're

(01:23:09):
lean, that doesn't make youhealthy.
Just like being a little biggerdoesn't necessarily mean you're
unhealthy.
And and seeing that, like, thatwas such an eye-opener to me.
I was like, okay, losing weightis not getting healthy, even if
it does help being healthy.
But getting healthy and losingweight are two completely
separate initiatives that youhave to approach independently,

(01:23:32):
but they're interdependentbecause they help each other.
But like, yeah, so I'm with you.
Yeah, having a six-pack is not,I mean, I'm ramping up running,
so I know all naturally leandown anyway because of it, but
it's like, you know, I'm gonnabe I'm gonna be burning a shit
ton of energy all the time.
But it's yeah, it it it'sinteresting the comment section

(01:23:52):
what people say.
Um, and I've had peoplesometimes like, have you seen
they'll come to me, like, haveyou seen so-and-so creator?
They've gained a little weight.
And I'm like, who cares?
Stop judging them.
Like, they're a person too, andso they're living their life.
You don't know what their goalsare.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:07):
When I started posting content, my goal was to
gain weight.
I'd already lost all the weightI wanted to.
I'm I'm 6'3, I was 155 pounds,which is also not healthy, you
know, comparatively to Rob'ssame thing.
So I have gained weight sincethen because I've wanted to,
I've needed to.
I am not as lean as I used to bebecause I needed to not be that

(01:24:29):
lean.
I didn't feel good when I wasthat lean.
I I hit a weight, I realized itweight loss is not gonna bring
me happiness.
I have to create happiness.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:37):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (01:24:38):
And part of that was gonna be that health meant the
number was higher.

SPEAKER_03 (01:24:43):
I I hope that everybody loses all the weight
and gets the physique of theirdreams so they can see that it's
not gonna make them happy andthey'll finally get to working
on what actually makes a personhappy.

SPEAKER_00 (01:24:54):
That's a quote from the I can't scary enough GYM
that um all these Instagrammodels and fitness people that
um they're always every everyvideo they put out, they're
super lean.
A lot of them they will do a cutto get to that point, they will
film all of their content withinlike a month, and then they

(01:25:15):
will, you know, s spread outposting that content.
So it looks like they'releaning, but really they were
just did they did it just for amonth.

SPEAKER_03 (01:25:25):
That's how I like um y'all watch Jeff Nippard's
stuff.
Yeah, that's yeah, that's why Ilike how he just shows us it's
live.
You can see him bulking up, youcan see him cutting down, and he
talks about the informationbehind it.
Like, I wish more contentcreators would do stuff like
that and just let it be real,like show like because yeah,
you're right, this polishedstuff.

(01:25:45):
I mean, look, they do it becauseit works, because it gets them
the views, but it's just peopledon't realize when they're doing
it, like they're br they'rethey're messing up their own
minds by just constantlycurating their feeds to show
them these unrealisticexpectations.
Like we all know, I can throw oncertain lighting, eat a certain
way for a couple of days, andhave an amazing look, and then

(01:26:07):
just a day later it's gone.
I mean, it's not hard.

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:11):
It's crazy that um, you know, actors that we would
have said were jacked and stuffin the 90s are now considered to
be chubby.
Right?

SPEAKER_04 (01:26:21):
Right?
It's still the physical.

SPEAKER_00 (01:26:23):
I have a serious problem.
Um like it's gotten so bad.
And I have a serious problemwith um Marvel rivals.
We got Tony Stark here.
I've got a serious problem withit because they've they turned
everybody into these huge,jacked up bodybuilders.

(01:26:44):
Um, Wolverine is out to here,and it's like, no, why are we
pushing this image that all thesuperheroes need to be these
giant guys walking around?

SPEAKER_03 (01:26:55):
And as a man, too, you know, I know look, first,
before I say what I'm about tosay, I know that women got it
10,000 times worse.
Um, but as a dude, like, like soI'm 40.
Um, and it said I'm I'm behind,right?
I missed out on 20 years offoundation building that I could
have had.
And like I look around andsometimes and I feel this

(01:27:15):
pressure inside.
And I have to constantly workthrough it.
It's like, I don't have to besome big jack dude.
Like, I don't, I like to run.
I'm an endurance runner.
I like it.
I'm not like it's hard to bulkand be an endurance runner.
You can do it, but like NickBear, he does it, but like he's
very transparent.
Like, it's not easy, and you gotto have the food, the nutrition

(01:27:37):
behind it to support it.
And and so I think that likethey set these unrealistic at
Hollywood level, they show thesemassive transformations and look
how great he got in it for thething.
They don't talk about they'reprobably using gear, they do it
for their full-time job for ninemonths straight, you know, six,
eight hours a day.
It's all they have to do isbecome jacked.

(01:27:58):
And then, like, you see, likeBatista, who's slimming down,
and then he gets all this flackfor it.
And I'm like, Yep, come on, orthe rock slimmed down something
recently.
I was about to say, but but it'snot like the rock ever talks
about look, the rock, I don't,you know, the rock, they ain't
natural.
So God no, but they don't talkabout it.
So they don't at least likelook, if you're gonna use gear,

(01:28:20):
just normalize it, just sayyou're doing it.
That's why I do like MikeIsrtel.
He's just totallystraightforward with it.
I'd prefer that.

SPEAKER_01 (01:28:27):
He'll talk about how much it sucks, too.
That's what I think is reallyimportant.
It a lot of the people who arenow being transparent about it
are treating it like it's a likea luxury drug, like it's
something that equates to agreat lifestyle.
And Dr.
Mike Isretel, he'll say, Well,I'm angry all the time.
I feel awful.
It's it like there's fire in myveins.

(01:28:48):
And it's it's just not disgustenough.
Uh plus it everybody if ifsomebody's job is fitness,
there's a solid chance thatthey've got a needle in their
ass.
And they're not talking aboutit.

SPEAKER_03 (01:28:59):
Well, I made the conscious choice now about
through two and a half, almostthree years ago, that I said I
am I I could, because of thenature of the line of work that
I do, same with y'all, like Icould justify spending an
abnormal amount of time in thegym for most people.
Like, I could justify that if Iwanted.
Um, in my mind, probably evenlogistically, to my accountants,

(01:29:23):
like I could do that.
But I was like, but that's notwhat my people I'm working with
do.
They don't, they don't livelives like that.
They live a regular life with adesk job.
So I'm like, I'm gonna try tofigure out how to do this the
way a normal person does it.
Because what if this all goesaway, right?
Like we're we're so I I considermyself blessed I get to do what
I do for a living.

(01:29:43):
But like I'm under like I couldjust lose this one day.
Who knows?
Right.
And so it's like I don't want tomake it where the only way I can
take care of myself is when Imade taking care of myself part
of my profession.
Because that's not realistic formost of life.

SPEAKER_01 (01:29:56):
It's normal, like just average everyday people are
are what comprises of myaudience, really.
It's like I'm I'm not pushing aphysique so much as I am like,
hey, you can lose the weightthat you've got, and it can be
reasonable.
You know, because there are alot of people that they they see
these picture perfect models andthey think, well, I can't be

(01:30:17):
that.
Even if I lose the 150 poundsI've got to lose, I'm gonna be
rot with loose skin.
So it's I I I can't have thatkind of uh tone about me or that
kind of pose or whatever.
And and they may not even be allthat interested.
They just want less pain ontheir joints.
They just want a slimmer face.

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:35):
Y'all ever watch Obese to Beast?
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (01:30:37):
We've had him on.

SPEAKER_03 (01:30:38):
Oh, you have?
Oh, I love his stuff.
And I love that he's, you know,because I've watched him my
whole my whole journey, Iremember discovering him, and I
just love that he justnormalized that like the loose
skin and everything.
But what I still find just sodis not discouraging.
It's just it's just it I don'tknow how to describe how I feel
about it.
It's it's i i uh something.
But when people just come andthey just hate on him for the

(01:30:58):
loose skin or whatever this, I'mlike, what a weird thing to just
go into a comment section ofsomebody else and just give them
beef for this.
Like, I mean, I guess that'salmost like how Gary V talks
about it, like pity.
It's like, you know, I almostpity this person that they feel
the need to do this in thecomment section because we know
like not everybody leavescomments.

(01:31:19):
So it felt some reason theyneeded to do it.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:23):
It's it's a shame.
And now, especially with thephysique inflation.
Well, I've I get people to comeinto my comments all the time
and call me small, and uh I'mnot big enough, I'm not jacked
enough, and I'm like, yeah, I'mI'm not on drugs.

SPEAKER_03 (01:31:36):
I will say my audience demographics about 20
years higher than yours.
I don't get it as much directedat me.
I see it more in other people'sstuff.
There they're definitely itdefinitely seems to have a
drop-off once the demographichits 40 plus.
Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31:48):
I'm I'm in the 18 to 34 demo.
That kind of imagery is beingshoved at them all the time.
And um, I I I just it's it'sstrange to see how quickly
that's happened too, becausewhen I got here a couple of
years ago, that wasn't the case.
It it was satisfactory enoughthat I had lost the weight, but
it's it it has shifted.

SPEAKER_03 (01:32:09):
I have had men come into my comment section and give
me flack about how I'm notthey're like, you did it all
wrong, you should be big andjacked by the time we got to the
end.
And I'm like, why?
And I mean, and I know why Ididn't, because I watched uh it
was a Jeff Nippert video when Iwas losing weight, and he talked
about like, should you bulk orshould you cut?
And I remember in one of hisvideos, I don't remember which

(01:32:31):
one, it's years and years andyears ago, he said, Look, man,
you probably aren't gonna likethis, but if you're greater than
25% body fat, you probablyshould not be worrying about
bulking.
You should just cut.
And I was just in like, well, Ithink my plan's gonna be I'm
gonna cut down to the body fatpercentage I want, and now I
have my blank canvas that I canbuild upon, and I can make it

(01:32:52):
whatever I want to make it.
And I totally stand by that.
You know, I'm I'm glad I did itthat way.
I kind of I mean sometimes Iwish I'd have bulked a little
bit along the way, but you know,26 months is a long time.
I don't know that I would havewanted it to take any longer.
And bulking is more fun on thisend.
I did eventually you didn't likeit.
No, no, I didn't like it either.
I I don't I don't know thatweightlifting and getting big is

(01:33:15):
my thing.
I don't think I like it.
Nothing against it.
I just me as an individual, Ijust don't think I like it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:33:20):
Different people have different goals.

SPEAKER_03 (01:33:21):
Yeah, I I get off being able to run 20 miles.
Like that's my thing.
Like I like being able to dothat.
Like uh Ben Carpenter, uh, whojust you know he got into
running recently, and I justremember watching that, and I
loved how he talked about likeit was terrible when as soon as
he did it.
But I'm like looking at Ben andI'm like, I mean, his physique
is phenomenal, and he's beendoing it for a long time.

(01:33:43):
I mean, I can't hold a candle tohim, and I just remember it was
very it was interesting.
Someone that honestly I lookedup to, or look up to, current
present tense, but he talksabout something that I do that I
started way later in life, andI'm like, oh, I'm I'm better at
that.
But it's just because that wasmy thing.
That was the thing I got into,and there's nothing wrong with
it.
Like it's totally okay, but myphysique's gonna look like a

(01:34:03):
runner because that's what I do.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:05):
It's and Ben's physique is gonna look like
somebody with Crohn's because hehas Crohn's.

SPEAKER_03 (01:34:10):
Right.
Right.
Gosh, that's a that's a that's aI've had a friend have Crohn's.
That's a tough, that's a toughone to have.

SPEAKER_01 (01:34:16):
Chris, where can we find you?
I've I've got to pop out of herein just a couple of minutes.
Uh otherwise, I'm gonna be goinglong.
This may be is this the longestone that's you guys have ever
done?
No.
Well then we gotta go foranother hour.

SPEAKER_00 (01:34:28):
Scotty's was nearly two hours.
That makes sense.
Yep.

SPEAKER_01 (01:34:33):
Uh yeah.
Chris, have you I think Iintroduced you to Scotty, right?

SPEAKER_03 (01:34:38):
Yeah, we've yeah, we've texted.

SPEAKER_01 (01:34:39):
We've texted some.
Yeah.
Okay.
Yeah, cool.
It's gotta I gotta make sure youknow everybody.
Everybody's gotta know you.
Where can everybody find you?

SPEAKER_03 (01:34:46):
Uh easiest thing is just becoming thin.com.
Uh, that'll, you know, personcan find my podcast, they can um
just learn a little bit moreabout who I am.
Uh on on TikTok, Chris Terrell,more becoming thin.
You can search for those.
Um and then on YouTube, BecomingThin.
So you can just search for thoseon any of the things.
Facebook group, I have onethere.

(01:35:07):
Uh man, that's a fun journeywhen I did the rebrand of that
to becoming thin.
Uh, he wanted to talk about afun journey sometime.
It causes people to have tothink, have to face a mirror.
I switched to that one.
But they can find me that on anypretty much any platform, except
Instagram.
I don't, that's my I don't givea shit about Instagram.
So maybe one day I will.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:25):
We'll get you over to Instagram one day.
Everybody write in.
Right into the P.O.
box, the inmoderation P.O.
box, which we don't have yet,um, telling Chris that he needs
to get on to Instagram.

SPEAKER_03 (01:35:34):
Come tell me about him on TikTok and tell me to get
on Instagram.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:37):
Yeah.
Go on to go on to Twitter.

SPEAKER_03 (01:35:40):
Well, right?
That'll help my algorithm.

SPEAKER_01 (01:35:43):
Call him phony Stark until he does it.

SPEAKER_03 (01:35:46):
I don't know if I've heard that one.
My favorite one is a person gotin my comment section and said,
It's aluminum, dude.
And I was like, that's funny.
I've never heard it ever since,but that was my favorite one
that I ever heard.
You know, I don't like whenpeople call me wish.com Tony
Stark.
I don't like that one.
Target brand, at least.

SPEAKER_01 (01:36:06):
Well, Chris, thank you for joining us.
Mike, I Mike.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:10):
Talking beside your microphone.
It's very quiet.

SPEAKER_01 (01:36:12):
Chris, thank you for joining us.
That's better.

SPEAKER_03 (01:36:15):
Yes, talk on the other side.
You're welcome.
Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01 (01:36:19):
I yeah, I know I appreciate it.
I'm sure if Liam were alivetoday, he would appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:24):
Unfortunately, the Roomba got him.
God rest the soul.

SPEAKER_01 (01:36:27):
Rest of Peter, the Roomba finally did get him.

SPEAKER_00 (01:36:30):
We'll have a moment of silence for Liam at the end
of this episode.
Pour one out for our brother.

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