Green Light, Red Light, Real Science

What if the right light could turn down pain without turning your life upside down? We put red and green light therapy under a bright lens—no fluff, no fearmongering—to figure out what truly helps migraines, fibromyalgia, skin health, and recovery, and what’s just expensive mood lighting. With Avisha from Distilled Science, we dig into the physiology, the real-world dosing, and the mistakes that make promising tools look like magic or, just as often, like scams.

We start by demystifying red light therapy: mitochondrial targets, why the U-shaped dose curve matters, and how full-body beds can overshoot while a modest home panel, calibrated for distance and time, can get you better results. We contrast infrared saunas and red LEDs—different mechanisms, different outcomes—and explain penetration depth limits that make “joint healing” claims tricky. Then we pivot to green light’s surprising evidence for migraine and fibromyalgia. Low-intensity, diffuse green light—in the range of 4 to 100 lux for one to two hours—may both reduce sensory spikes in the visual pathway and trigger endogenous opioids, easing pain without meds. The catch: flicker and brightness can ruin the effect, so low-flicker LEDs, gentle ambient setup, and smart placement matter.

Beyond the lab talk, we call out healthy user bias and headline traps using the latest vitamin D–Alzheimer’s buzz as a cautionary tale. You’ll leave with practical, budget-friendly steps: how to read panel specs, how to choose distance and time for red light, how to build a migraine‑friendly green environment with commodity LEDs, and how to avoid the “more is better” myth that drives both costs and side effects. There’s humor, a few DeLorean asides, and a clear throughline: curiosity plus calibration beats hype.

If this helped you separate signal from noise, follow and subscribe, share it with a friend who gets migraines, and drop a review with your biggest light therapy question—we might test it next.

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Episode Transcript

SPEAKER_01 (00:18):
And now I'm like, do I just get a new car?
At this point, do I just fuckingbuy a new car and trade it in
and have hey, take this car forparts?

SPEAKER_00 (00:25):
Sounds like you need DeLorean.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (00:27):
I want a fucking DeLorean so badly.
God.

SPEAKER_00 (00:31):
Welcome to Inmoderation, where we're still
talking about DeLoreans.

SPEAKER_01 (00:34):
I my car may be going away.
My car might be going awaybecause of New York.
Because of New York.
That's why they have taxes andthis, and not just taxes, but
inspections on everything.
So I might just be forced into anew car.
And if I'm forced into a newcar, there's only one reasonable
option.
It starts with a duh and endswith an Alorian.

SPEAKER_02 (00:55):
And if we know anything, it's that it's never
too far in the future for aDeLorean to be the right choice.

SPEAKER_01 (01:01):
Now, do we you were here when we talked about it?
The new one's like$250,000.
The new one, they're making,they're remaking it, and the
starting price is a quartermillion dollars.
I'm like, well, fuck that.
I can't do that.
But like an old 80, what isthat, 83 or whatever, is like 50
grand.
50 grand for a joke that I mightuse.
I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 (01:18):
They know their audience.

SPEAKER_01 (01:19):
Yeah.
I'm frustrated.
But anyway, how are you doing,Avisha?

SPEAKER_02 (01:23):
Pretty good.
Pretty good.
I'm in the middle of a veryelongated project around green
lights.

SPEAKER_01 (01:31):
Green lights.
Okay, what are you doing?
You grow in shit?
Or is it the uh thing?

SPEAKER_00 (01:35):
With regards to um uh fibromyalgia?

SPEAKER_02 (01:40):
Fibromyalgia, migraines, any sort of
neuropathic pain.

SPEAKER_01 (01:44):
Now I've heard of red light therapy.
I'm assuming this is green lighttherapy, which does the opposite
of what red light therapy does.
It means gun.

SPEAKER_02 (01:50):
Sort of, right?
There's sort of likeperpendicular.
Like you're you've got threedifferent color processing
units, different cones.
You've got your red sensitive,green sensitive, and blue
sensitive.
Okay.
And the blue sensitive areresponsible for things like
triggering your circadianrhythm, melatonin cycles.
The red, the main purpose of redlight therapy is to sort of get

(02:13):
absorbed by cytochromepeoxidase, increase energy
within the mitochondria, whichcan be beneficial in a variety
of different ways.
Not as beneficial as people willtell you, but there is a good
amount of research about ithaving some benefits for like
wound healing and skin health.

SPEAKER_01 (02:28):
I've seen that for like just like, yeah, for as far
as your skin goes, like sometopical, like what like there's
some things, but as far as likejust super energizing your
mitochondria, it's like, well,maybe not so much.

SPEAKER_02 (02:40):
Ironically, when it comes to those like big red
light beds where you can go tothese bougie health spas and get
entirely surrounded byeverything, what they don't
generally realize and tell youis that there's actually a
U-shaped curve for efficacy whenit comes to red light.
Too little, you're not gonna getan effect.
Too high of a dose, and you'realso not gonna get an effect
because you can sort of overloadthe system, and rather than
increasing energy availability,instead you're increasing

(03:03):
reactive oxygen species beinggenerated by the absorption of
said things.

SPEAKER_01 (03:07):
So what is what how much red light am I supposed
like from like a traffic stop?
Like that's that amount of redlight, like how much red light
do I need here?

SPEAKER_02 (03:17):
The amount that you would need for a beneficial
effect on your like skin andhair is in the realm of two or
three minutes of a very highintensity panel or 10 to 20
minutes of a lower intensitypanel.
It is far, far stronger than youwould get from a uh any type of
traffic light.

(03:37):
Like, for example.

SPEAKER_01 (03:38):
Oh, damn.
I had a whole fucking businessplan set up.
Hey, there we go.
Red light.
That didn't sound good.
There it goes.
There it goes the red light.
Red light needs stop.
Oh, that's so much.

SPEAKER_00 (03:48):
That's that's intense red.

SPEAKER_01 (03:50):
Okay.
Because okay, I've seen my wifetalk about this.
She wants to get one of thoselike I don't know, like they're
little canvas things that youget into, like they're the
little like squares that havethe little like zipper that you
get into them and they flash thered light.
Is that like, are those thingseven good enough to be worth it,
or is that just wasteful?

SPEAKER_02 (04:08):
Wait, I say that again.
I had headphones while I wasdoing it.

SPEAKER_01 (04:10):
They're little portable ones.
Basically, you set up like yourbasement or some shit, and
they've got a little zipper, andyou get in kind of like a little
steam sauna thing.

SPEAKER_02 (04:17):
So those are infrared saunas, those are a
totally different thing.
What what what how diff whatdifferent what is so an infrared
sauna is trying to get you thesauna benefit of actually
elevating body temperature, andthat's like a totally different
effect as compared to the redlight.

SPEAKER_01 (04:34):
Does the red light do anything in it then, or is
they just throwing that in forpeople who have no idea?

SPEAKER_02 (04:38):
When they include red light in those things, it's
I don't it really depends onwhat they're doing.
Like the majority of them areprobably not giving you a strong
enough red light to do much.
I'm sure there are some brandsthat do, but at the same time,
the problem is the benefit thatyou get from a sauna requires a
high enough treatment durationthat a most infrared saunas are

(04:59):
not really getting you up toenough temperature to really get
that benefit.
And if they are, then they'vealready gone too high on the red
light if they have a reasonablystrong red light for the most
part.
So, like are these things likeincompatible then?

SPEAKER_01 (05:10):
Like you shouldn't have them together because they
kind of have different timelengths that you should be doing
the thing.

SPEAKER_02 (05:16):
If it was really well calibrated, you can do it
because it's all about the totallike energy dose that your skin
is receiving.
And that has to do with yourintensity of light, your
distance from the light, andyour exposure time.
So theoretically, if someone wasreally calibrating this
properly, they could dial it inso that time under heat is equal
to dose required.
The thing is, even then, likewhat most people also just

(05:39):
completely go over is they'lltell you that red light can be
good for like your joints andmuscles and bones, but also for
your skin and your hair.
However, penetration depth dropsoff exponentially every
millimeter like it goes in thehuman body.
So the amount of exposure thatis required in order to have a
benefit on your like joints istypically going to be high

(06:01):
enough that you sort of alreadyoverload it on skin.

SPEAKER_01 (06:03):
So it's so we need to go through the skin.
We need like needles that go inthere, and then the red light
through the right.

SPEAKER_00 (06:10):
You need to inject the red light, ultra red light
or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 (06:13):
Red light injectables.
Is that what red 40 is formostly?
So that when I take in the red40, since it's red, it heals my
body from the inside.

SPEAKER_02 (06:21):
That's what I'm hearing.
We can propose that to RFK andsee how he does.

SPEAKER_01 (06:26):
Bro, I'm telling you, red light, no, not red
light, red 40 capsules, likesupplement form that we sell in.
It's just red 40 that peopletake.

SPEAKER_02 (06:36):
Um, I did a video a while back on yellow five, and
there was a really cool studywhere they used it, they take a
lot of yellow five, and they putit on the skin of a mouse, or
maybe it was a rat that wasshaved, and it turns the skin
translucent, allowing them tosee their organs using visible
light.

SPEAKER_01 (06:54):
I think I've seen, I don't know if I saw you do, I
think I've seen this before.

SPEAKER_02 (06:59):
So like We made some headlines.
I did a video like, I don'tknow, a little over a year ago,
something like that.
But it's super freaky and cool.
It the way it has to do with theway that the Yellow Five works
with the normally it would belike ref your skin will be
reflecting certain wavelengthsof light, making it opaque, but
here it's like absorbing enoughand allowing the others to pass
through and out.

(07:20):
It's a fascinating effect.

SPEAKER_01 (07:21):
So theoretically, it could work on human too.

SPEAKER_02 (07:24):
Yeah, if no telling enough, yeah, exactly.
I would not recommend, you know,we have not actually done human
safety trials on that highamount, but but that would be a
fucking sick Halloween costume,I'll tell you that much.

SPEAKER_01 (07:37):
You're walking around with just no organ
showing.
I mean, if we're looking forlike a case study, I'm sure
someone out there is willing todo it.
Fear Factor's back on on TV.
I don't know if you've seenthat.
Now, yeah.
Now it's who's it hosted by adifferent, I forgot who they oh,
Johnny Knoxville.
Johnny Knoxville's doing it.
Get let's get in contact withthem.
Say next year for Halloween,cover someone in yellow five and

(07:59):
just see if we see what happens.
Someone will sign a waiver forthat.

SPEAKER_02 (08:03):
I'm sure someone would.
I'm sure someone would.
I mean, I'm I'm for it.
It sounds super cool.

SPEAKER_01 (08:09):
Okay, so red, okay.
So we were talking about so thered light, yeah.
So the saunas then like justmaybe, maybe not the not the
best.
So you would really need like aa dedicated red light therapy.
Like a good like what do youhave to do?
Do you have to pay like athousand, like five thousand
dollars to generally to get likea good enough one?

SPEAKER_02 (08:25):
What's actually no?
So the problem is like I hadthis video in my to-do list that
I have already like mostlyscripted and filmed, whatever.
Uh Huberman has one of hissponsors is Juve, which is like
the red light company, one ofthe top in the space.
And if you really listen to thead, it's like what makes these
guys so good is their clinicallyproven frequencies of red light

(08:47):
to have XYZ benefits.
Now, on the one hand, it doeshave most of the benefits
stated, although the magnitudeis typically not there.
And as I said before, you haveto dose it carefully.
The problem is the reason whyalmost every red light panel has
like uh 660 nanometer wavelengthfor red light is predominantly

(09:08):
because that's the type of LEDsthat we make on the cheap for
mass market.
So that's what I'm just gonnado.

SPEAKER_01 (09:17):
They put them in a light.

SPEAKER_02 (09:18):
It they it's economies of scale.
The LED market is very large,and if you want to get efficient
LED panels that are red, whichwe need to have a pretty much
pure red, pure green, pure bluein order to get all the
different colors, it just makessense to have pure red.
So, for the most part, themajority of scientific studies
done on red light are using thesame very narrow bandwidth of

(09:39):
red because that's just what wasavailable, and that is like the
predominant red.
If you look at the panel I justshowed you that I got for like
300 bucks from China, isessentially equivalent to like
the$1,500,$2,000 panel that youcan buy from these big name
brands, and it uses the sameclinically proven frequencies
because it's just the same.
It you can't patent a wavelengthof light, and those are what you

(10:02):
get.
There are some panels that'lluse like 660, 680, and then like
a couple different, like maybe730, like they'll have like four
or five different onesthroughout the red and near
infrared spectrum.
And there's a limited amount ofresearch indicating that maybe
you might be boosting efficacy alittle bit there.
Uh but it's still like nascentstages of research, and you're

(10:23):
getting most of the benefit justfrom you get a high enough
intensity, you get the rightsort of lensing on it, you get
the like uh the dirt cheap onesdo nothing.
Like uh, for example, where didthis thing go?

SPEAKER_01 (10:33):
I mean, I usually you pay dirt cheap for something
and it's not gonna work.
Except for beans.
That's the only thing you canpay dirt cheap, and it's really
good.
It's true.

SPEAKER_02 (10:41):
There's like there was a video going viral on
TikTok a while back about likethis thing.
It's like a use different lighttherapy to little handheld ones.
Do something on your your face.

SPEAKER_01 (10:50):
Yes.
And at least nothing.

SPEAKER_02 (10:52):
The thing about that is as I said, the efficacy is
all about d intensity andtreatment time.
When you're doing this up anddown the face, you know how long
you would have to spend on eachpart of your skin to actually
get to the point of doinganything?

SPEAKER_00 (11:07):
More than three seconds?
It'd be more effective to do thestop light.

SPEAKER_02 (11:11):
Yeah, exactly.
You know, if you spend 10minutes on each part of your
skin, this light might be enoughto do something.

SPEAKER_01 (11:17):
I see what you're saying.
Okay.
So yeah, a little handheld'sprobably not great.

SPEAKER_02 (11:20):
No, but you can't get a square panel for like
40-50 bucks that is actuallyenough to do the full face, full
head.
Really?

SPEAKER_01 (11:27):
Okay, because I always expected those ones that
are like 40 bucks.
I'm like, that's some bullshit.
That does nothing.
I assume that's it.

SPEAKER_02 (11:31):
If you pay 40, 50 bucks on Amazon, I don't know.
I haven't looked at themrecently, although I might be
doing some testing soon.
Uh, if you go straight toAliExpress where all the like
you're just going to theoriginal factories that all of
like the influencers are whitelabeling and jacking up the
price.

SPEAKER_01 (11:45):
Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 (11:45):
Right.
Like I have a cheap one thatI've measured.
It does the job.

SPEAKER_01 (11:50):
Interesting.
But they all kind of do asimilar thing because it's
they're all using like LEDs.

SPEAKER_02 (11:54):
Yeah.
Pretty much.

SPEAKER_01 (11:56):
The main thing is you got What are they charging
at like these spas that do likered light therapy?
Did they just blast the shit outof you and hope you think that
means it's better?
Or like are they using somethingbetter, or is they just using
the same shit, just more of it?

SPEAKER_02 (12:08):
What they're typically doing is for the
really high-end ones, they'reusing like a red light bed, so
you're getting your entire bodyat once.
Oftentimes I would say they'redoing too much.

SPEAKER_01 (12:17):
Like literally, it's you don't need your butthole
shined, is what you're saying.
Or is there if they're efficacyin like butthole healing from
red light?

SPEAKER_02 (12:24):
You know, I can't say that there's been any
research on that.

SPEAKER_01 (12:27):
How many studies?
There are there anymeta-analysis.

SPEAKER_02 (12:30):
Does it help with hemorrhoids?

SPEAKER_01 (12:31):
There you go, hemorrhoids.

SPEAKER_02 (12:33):
I actually age at very high doses, it can be a
little bit antimicrobial by dintof you sort of producing a lot
of extra reactive oxygenspecies.
Hence the dose to deal with acnein clinical trials is like five
to ten times the amount to dealwith like other skin benefits
because you're sort ofoverloading the rest to try to

(12:53):
overload the bacteria, and thenlike that's a different sort of
range of dosages.

SPEAKER_01 (12:58):
Okay.
Interesting.
So yeah, so what were yousaying?
So the the they just overloadyou.

SPEAKER_02 (13:02):
So they just charge you for two or three sessions is
how much it would cost to get aperfectly functional panel at
home.

SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
Right.
It just and for people who justlike have the.

SPEAKER_02 (13:14):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, it depends on thesizing.
Like the panel I showed you islike a half-body panel that
costs, again, like probably 300bucks now.

SPEAKER_01 (13:20):
Okay, so maybe red light therapy, some benefits
potentially, and you can getsomething for relatively cheap
if you want to try.

SPEAKER_02 (13:28):
Pretty much.
Just be careful about doing itfor too much.
Got to make sure to really dialin the dosage.

SPEAKER_01 (13:34):
Yeah, should you start off at like a minute or
two with like red light therapyor like a few minutes?

SPEAKER_02 (13:38):
Or like you just kind of it's not something that
you need to like work your bodyup to.
It's it's not really an adaptivesort of thing.
It's more just you need to lookat the actual power output of
your panel for a given treatmentdistance and then figure out the
amount of exposure.
I've actually been thinkingabout publishing like a
calculator where you can likeinput the specs.
That would be cool.

(13:59):
Yeah.
That would be a lot of lightmeasuring devices around me.

SPEAKER_01 (14:04):
Right.
Not not every house has let meget this light measuring device.
It's a little bit different thanthe other one I have.
Let's check the red light.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 (14:12):
Got it.
But you can look up the specs onwhatever you purchase, and that
should give you an estimate.
And as long as it's reasonablyaccurate to claimed specs, you
can then go from there.

SPEAKER_01 (14:22):
Now, I'm just gonna be perfectly honest with you.
I'm never probably gonna do thered light thing.
I never have, and I will becauseI'm just like, this is like so I
that gets into that likepercentage where you're trying
to be like uber extra healthy.
And I'm like, I'm not ahooberman, I don't care.
Like, I'm just like, oh well, II had some vegetables on my
sandwich, so like that's cool.
And I'm more in I feel like I'mmore in that group, but like I

(14:43):
find it interesting that peoplethat are like, oh yeah, that's
red light therapy and thespecific melatonin introduction,
and blah blah blah, like, yeah,that's neat, but like it gives
me a measure of how much to rollmy eyes when people are talking
about it.
I get yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (14:57):
It is fun though.
One thing that I will saypositive about the whole space
is oftentimes you're gonna findthe people who are focused on
that type of stuff, on average,a lot healthier than everyone
else, because they the fact thatthey're doing that sort of thing
makes health as a part of theiridentity.
So that allows them to do otherthings that other people would
otherwise that's a lot of otherthat allows them to perform

(15:20):
activities, to eat things thatare normally more in the way of
requiring willpower, but becausethey have defined themselves as
an uber healthy individual, notto be confused with a uber
healthy individual.

SPEAKER_01 (15:31):
They're very similar though, so you have to it's
there's there's a lot, the Venndiagram is overlapping a lot
between the Uber and the Uber.
I should make a t-shirt.
Uber healthy, hoober healthy,uber healthy, and there's like
very little on the sides that'sdifferent, but there's a couple
differences.

SPEAKER_02 (15:46):
But having spent a lot of time in like the
biohacking space, the veryhealth-obsessed space, most of
those people have a lot ofthings wrong in their mind about
what actually is ideal forhealth, but because it requires
the baselines to even get there,most of them are very healthy
people because they'reexercising, they're eating,
they're like not to mention theuh disposable income if they're

(16:10):
affording these devices.

SPEAKER_01 (16:11):
Yeah, that's what I've seen this on um what you
call like organic vegetableconsumption.
Like people who eat organicvegetables are healthier.
It's like the well, they're justeating more vegetables.
It's not compared to the peoplewho are eating the same amount
of conventional produce, they'rejust eating more like fucking
fruits and vegetables, and thatshit's healthy, and they also
can afford organic, so they'redoing other shit.
Like, that's why they'rehealthier.

SPEAKER_02 (16:30):
Healthy user bias.
Last week, my mother sent me anemail.
She was like, Can you look atthis study?
Maybe it's something that wouldbe good for you to talk about.
And the study was looking atvitamin D supplementation for
the treatment or the preventionof Alzheimer's.

SPEAKER_00 (16:47):
Oh, I saw that.

SPEAKER_02 (16:48):
Now, the thing about it is all the articles were
talking about vitamin D likesupplementation is linked to
something like 40% reduction inAlzheimer's.
So she's like, I'm in of the agewhere I should start worrying
about this.
Should I be taking all thisvitamin D?
And you look at the study, andit was an observational study
that did not measure vitamin Dlevels before, during, or after.

(17:10):
They did not even look at howmuch vitamin D people were
either consuming in their dietbefore, during, or after, or
even supplementing.
All they did was ask, are youtaking a vitamin D supplement at
the beginning, at the end?
And they saw that the people whowere taking a vitamin D
supplement had lower Alzheimer'srates.
Now, that could be A, people whowere deficient in vitamin D and

(17:31):
taking the supplement, it mayhave helped because when you go
from deficiency to not, that candefinitely benefit the body in
all sorts of ways.
But also, if you are of the typeof person to be taking
supplements, then you areprobably of the socioeconomic
class and health-seekingbehavior level that there's all
sorts of other stuff going on.
So this study itself wasabsolutely worthless to say take

(17:52):
vitamin D supplements andprevent Alzheimer's, but it
showed a link.

SPEAKER_01 (17:56):
And it sells vitamin D very well.
Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (17:58):
I asked my mother, I was like, were was there any
link on that page to a vitamin Dsupplement?

SPEAKER_01 (18:02):
I mean, it's I mean, I don't know.
Like with vitamin D, people askme, I'm like, it's cheap.
So if you want to take, youknow, a low, you know, whatever,
you want to take the lexer.
And a lot of people I know.

SPEAKER_00 (18:11):
If you live in Canada during winter, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (18:14):
I work from my basement.
I even during the summer, I putlittle vitamin D powder in my
coffee every morning becausemight as well stay topped off.
It's such the doses are in likemicrograms.
So like I have a custom powderthat I mix with my coffee and
it's like a tiny bit.
Can you buy it in powder for me?

SPEAKER_01 (18:31):
I know with a lot of the supplements, it's a little
like I mean, with especiallywith some supplements that are
like fat soluble or whatever,it's real risky because you
could just be like, oh,milligram, gram, that's the same
thing.
Put it in there and then you'refucked, right?

SPEAKER_00 (18:42):
That is vitamin D things you buy at the store are
just compressed powder.

SPEAKER_02 (18:46):
They're powder with a lot of filler because vitamin
D, you need such a small amountthat your what your pill is
mostly filler and a tiny bit ofactive powder.
So I buy the pure powder and putlike But you can buy the pure
powder?

SPEAKER_01 (18:56):
I didn't even know you could do that.

SPEAKER_02 (18:57):
Bulk supplements has the pure powder of most type of
supplements.

SPEAKER_01 (19:01):
So I've seen I used to I I used to be able to like
purchase, I I think I bought atone point caffeine powder.
I think that's right over there.
Yeah, they I feel like theystopped because there was
definitely people who were likeinstead who did grams instead of
milligrams.
You know, like five milligramsof caffeine and five and five
grams.

SPEAKER_02 (19:20):
Five grams is fifty percent the lethal dosage.

SPEAKER_01 (19:23):
Is it 10 grams the lethal dosage?
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (19:26):
Okay.
You gotta be very careful withpowdered caffeine.

SPEAKER_01 (19:29):
Yeah, so like I don't even really see it too
much anymore because it's soeasy to overdo, and like
caffeine's more toxic than Ithink people realize.

SPEAKER_02 (19:36):
If you're taking caffeine pure, use it in pill
form where the dose ispre-measured, unless you're
someone like me who has ajewelry scale and you know it's
nerdy.
They sell rat poison.

SPEAKER_01 (19:51):
That's a fair point.
That is true, but typically Idon't know.
Like, just like we you know,like okay, let's say no, I have
to work towards the lowestcommon denominator.
You have to work with that,right?
Like the people that don'trealize Graham versus Miller.
And plus we're in a fuckingwe're in America.
Mike, we're in America.
Did you know that?
We're in America where peopledon't understand the metric
system.

SPEAKER_03 (20:11):
Holy shit.
I didn't need bad news when Igot on here.

SPEAKER_01 (20:15):
Where we use, we use what do we even use in America?
The how what what system do weuse?
What's the order system?

SPEAKER_02 (20:24):
I don't even know what it's called.
It's called the scientists' hateus system.

SPEAKER_01 (20:29):
Basically, right?
So, like you tell a person withlike who has like a bag of
poison, which is caffeine.
Oh, now you gotta work withmilligrams and grams, the
chances of them fucking up arepretty high.

SPEAKER_02 (20:41):
Oh, yeah.
That's what I'm saying.
Oh yeah.
So you gotta be very carefulwhen you get the pure stuff, but
it is something.
Actually, I got it because I wasdoing a hair regrowth experiment
and topical or also certainskincare stuff.
Like topical caffeine hascertain interesting effects that
are totally separate from thesystemic.

SPEAKER_00 (20:58):
Tell me more.

SPEAKER_01 (20:59):
Yeah, Rob's interested for anyway.

SPEAKER_00 (21:02):
Just before you tell us anything else, maybe you
should tell us about yourself.

SPEAKER_01 (21:06):
Hey, he's been on multiple times.
Go back and watch the other.
No, go ahead.
I will.

SPEAKER_03 (21:11):
This time we're all wearing shirts.
Yes, we are wearing shirts.
Isn't that cool?
Yeah, I've got some businessystuff I gotta do.
So I just wanted to drop in andsay hi, everyone.
Hey, it's Mike Needs a plan.

SPEAKER_01 (21:22):
Uh yeah, drop some wisdom on people before you go.

SPEAKER_03 (21:24):
Uh, do I feel like is there any housekeeping I
gotta do?
No, nothing.
Can't think of it.
I'm sure I'll think of it assoon as I hang up.

SPEAKER_01 (21:31):
Uh hey, give us some wise words before you go.
We want some.

SPEAKER_03 (21:34):
Did you already ask Avishia like what he does, just
in case anyone doesn't know him?

SPEAKER_01 (21:38):
We were just we were just doing.
Cool.
We were just doing.

SPEAKER_03 (21:42):
Sorry, I'm a little scatterbrained right now.
I need a manager for the man.
Am I like the manager now?

SPEAKER_01 (21:48):
Sure.
It doesn't, who cares?
Doesn't matter.
Yes, no, all of it.

SPEAKER_03 (21:52):
Um with the plan.
Don't be your best is going tobe my my thing for the day.
Don't be your best becausepeople, if you start to be your
best, people will expect more ofyou.
I like it.
You won't be able to get awaywith as much.

SPEAKER_01 (22:05):
Low expectations.

SPEAKER_03 (22:06):
Low expectations.

SPEAKER_01 (22:08):
Lower the bar.

SPEAKER_03 (22:08):
Lower the bar.
Be kind to yourself, everybody.
Seacrest out.
All right.

SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
I like that random mic interjection.

SPEAKER_01 (22:18):
Yeah, it's like a word.
We don't have sponsors, we havemicroisms that just come in for
a little bit.
What we say, yeah.
All right, fine.
Introduce yourself.
Yeah, yeah.
Tell the people.

SPEAKER_02 (22:29):
Do the spiel.
My name is Avisha.
I have a channel calledDistilled Science, where I try
to help people walk that linebetween cutting edge science
that could actually be appliedto help improve lives and
misinformation.
And unfortunately, a lot of thatyou're going to see in the realm
of science applied to health ismore along the lines of
misinformation.
So I tend to spend a lot of timedoing that.

SPEAKER_01 (22:49):
Yeah.
So, okay, tell us take us backto the green light thing,
though.
What's going on with this?

SPEAKER_00 (22:53):
Back to the green light, because I was actually
very interested in that.

SPEAKER_02 (22:56):
So I did a video a little over a year ago on a
study that had come out wherethey looked at the use of green
light to treat migraines.
And by exposing people, they hadthem sit between three and six
feet away, one to two meters,from a string of green LEDs for
one to two hours per day.
They saw a reduction in bothfrequency and severity of

(23:18):
migraines.
They were not staring directlyat the lights, they were doing
like listening to music, readinga book while the lights were in
their field of vision, but theywere not directly looking at
them.
And this was interesting.

SPEAKER_01 (23:29):
Were they allowed to be like on their phone when they
were like no other light sourcesin the room?
That's what I was curious about.
Okay.

SPEAKER_02 (23:36):
Yeah.
Because so this was motivated bya much earlier study back in
2016, where they were trying togo and look at what was it for
people who have migrainephotophobia, so they're
sensitive to light, whichwavelengths of light were they
most susceptible to?
So around 80 to 90% of peoplewith migraines are susceptible
to light, it'll make thingsworse.
And they tried to figure outwhat types of light will make

(23:57):
things the worsest.
The worst scientist, not anEnglish person.
Worstest.
Yeah, I'm with it.
No, I'm I'm the worst form oflight.
Yeah.
So they put these people in avery uh high-tech little helmet
where they were able to flashdifferent types of light while
also measuring pupillaryresponse and brain response.
And what they found was actuallysomething very surprising, which

(24:20):
is that when they were exposedto white, green, sorry, white,
red, and blue light, it made themigraines worse.
But the green light actuallyended up reducing the intensity
of the migraines and the lowergreen light a little bit more
than the higher green light.

SPEAKER_01 (24:37):
And that's because green comes from nature and
nature good for body.
You and the rest of the peoplein my comment section.
Yeah.
I want to be the comment, I wantto be the dumb comment section,
people that brings up the thereally important points.

SPEAKER_02 (24:51):
What's fascinating about it is there's sort of two
different pathways going on.
So on the first, there's thefact that people suffering from
migraines are essentially, it'slike their nervous system is
oversensitized to stimuli.
And the stronger the stimulus,the more it's going to trigger
things and cause problems.
So they were, they broughteveryone back in that study and

(25:11):
they measured brain activitywhile exposing them to the
different lights again.
And what they found was thatwhen they were exposed to green
light, it actually produced thesmallest spike of electrical
activity in the like retina andthalamus for certain types of
like waveforms.

SPEAKER_01 (25:29):
Well I did an EEG.
I've done those before.
You put up a bunch of like wireson their head and shit like
that.

SPEAKER_02 (25:33):
Yeah, pretty much.
Like uh, this is a more nuancedversion of it, but essentially
that's what they're doing.
Yes, they're using likeelectrodes to measure electrical
spikes.
Yeah.
And they found a lower likemagnitude of electrical spiking
with regards to green as opposedto when they were exposed to
red, white, or blue.
Which that right there is whywhen if you're talking about any

(25:54):
type of electrical spike comingfrom the retina triggering the
trigeminal nerve, triggering thelike a cascade which leads to
pain with migraines, if green isproducing the least of the
spiking, then uh the theory isthat that's producing the lowest
uh stimulus for triggering themigraine.
It's that's one thing.
Exactly.

(26:14):
But if that were the case, thenyou would have seen the least
triggering from the green light,but still a triggering.
What they ended up findingthough was that it did trigger
it in some people, but for somepeople it also made it less bad,
which was fascinating.
So more research found thatexposure to green light actually

(26:35):
triggers the production ofendogenous endogenous opioids,
uh opiates opioids, whereessentially it's triggering the
anti-ceptive properties, it'striggering the pain relief.
Got it, yeah.
So there's it's not just a thisis the least bad, but this is
actually actively painkilling.

SPEAKER_00 (26:54):
But can we get high off it?

SPEAKER_01 (26:55):
How much green light?
What's the efficacious I willleave for I will leave that for
you through to figure out aboutthe high one.

SPEAKER_02 (27:02):
But report back.

SPEAKER_01 (27:03):
Do we use this in combination with shrooms, or is
this its own thing?
That's my question.

SPEAKER_02 (27:08):
The question is with shrooms, will you still perceive
it as green or will you stillget it?
Oh no!

SPEAKER_01 (27:13):
Oh god, the body gets confused.
Now we need a new study.
Take this, tell us what lightsyou see, and then we'll figure
out from there.

SPEAKER_00 (27:22):
And so recently the uh green light stuff was also
tied into fibromyalgia?

SPEAKER_02 (27:26):
Yes.
So the same group ofresearchers, after running these
human trial on migraines, triedto see, hey, can this help
fibromyalgia patients?
Because essentially, if we'retalking about the uh analgesic
effect of it, rather than thetrick like the photosensitive
one with migraines, withfibromyalgia, it's just their
whole nervous system is sort ofon overdrive.

(27:46):
And systemic central nervoussystem level pain killing could
be helpful.
So they found this is a prettysmall study with only 21 people,
but when they had them do theexact same protocol of one to
two hours per day in front ofthe green LEDs, they had a very
significant lowering of the likefrequency and intensity of their
fibromyalgia pain symptoms andan increase in their ability to

(28:07):
do chores.

SPEAKER_01 (28:08):
An increase in their ability to do chores, which you
could say is good or a badthing, depending on who's okay.
This it's definitely yeah, Imean, that's definitely
interesting.
So wait, are you doing somethingwith an hour?
Are you setting up a green lightroom?

SPEAKER_02 (28:20):
Um given the fact that what you need is very, very
low light intensity still forthe optimal treatment.
So, like uh we measure lightintensity that hits a surface in
lux, and they measured betweenfour and a hundred lux, between
three and six feet away as theideal.
Earlier rodent rodent studiesfound that when you subjected

(28:41):
them, when you subjected them tolike 300 lux, the beneficial
effects disappeared, which issort of a negative when you
think about the natureexplanation, it it raises some
questions because when you'reoutdoors in nature, the total
light you're getting exposed tois in the thousands of luxury,
it's way more than just thehundreds.
So there's a lot of interestingthings that we don't still don't
fully understand there.

(29:02):
But in general, it's sometimes achallenge to actually get a low
enough light level as opposed toget a high enough light, which
is why the really expensivegreen light companies, like
there's a company called theAlley Lamp, which charges
between two and three hundreddollars for their green light
therapy lamp with a patentedwavelength of light.
Now, I think we discussed thisearlier.
But uh like this is anotherlight that uh let's lower the

(29:26):
very green, very light.
Intensity did let's see, can Iget this in camera now?
Yeah, so this is sort of similarto the LA lamp.
It's only$80 as opposed to like$300, but$80 is also way too
much for something like thisbecause what you need is just
green light.
And the green light that comesfrom my LEDs over here or from

(29:47):
my cheaper, moremultifunctional, like in
general, when you have RGBlights, they're gonna be having
green, blue, and red LEDs toproduce the full color spectrum.
And if you can use the app andsay just go to green, in
general, that's gonna be thesame patented frequency of light
as you're gonna be getting fromthe$200,$300 lamp.

SPEAKER_00 (30:07):
Because standardized mass production.

SPEAKER_01 (30:09):
Yeah.
What I'm hearing is Christmas iscoming up, right?
Christmas, where the two colorsgenerally red and green.
So you definitely Decorate yourChristmas tree just green.
Boom.
Problem solved.

SPEAKER_02 (30:21):
There you go.
You know what's funny?
So right now I'm actuallywearing contacts that some brand
sent me the middle of testingout.
They block out blue light and alot of red light.
So like I'm getting a very greensort of perception.
And that's why my eyes look sodark.

SPEAKER_01 (30:36):
Yeah, I can I can see that.

SPEAKER_02 (30:38):
Like they're a little demonic.
I just thought you were high.

SPEAKER_01 (30:40):
Yeah, I mean high on the green light.

SPEAKER_02 (30:43):
It's not an either-or situation, but what's
funny is they have two differenttypes of contacts.
The ones I was wearing yesterdaywere red and oh, they make you
look like a demon.

SPEAKER_01 (30:52):
Oh.

SPEAKER_02 (30:53):
That's fun.
Which is a lot cooler than this.

SPEAKER_01 (30:55):
Wait, is that why people are happy at Christmas
time?
Because you're getting both redand green light therapy at the
same time?
Exactly.
I think that's why we've solvedit all.
We've solved it all.
I think that's why people likeChristmas.
It's the red and green light.
You get both of them.

SPEAKER_02 (31:08):
Who the hell is that?

SPEAKER_00 (31:09):
And that's why Christmas comes earlier every
year.

SPEAKER_01 (31:12):
We need that red and green light therapy.
That's interesting.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (31:15):
But right now, like right over there on my couch, I
have 20 different products ofdifferent forms of like RGB
lamps, green lamps, green nightlights, and I'm in the middle of
testing them all out to figureout which ones can actually
produce the right wavelength.
And one of the problems is youneed to get it dim enough.
But the way a lot of LEDs willdim is by flickering on and off
very quickly, which can causeheadaches.

SPEAKER_00 (31:38):
Yeah, I remember that.
If I recall correctly, they umthey like put tape over the
LEDs.
They did, yeah, very good.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 (31:45):
So they rather than putting the dimmer switch on,
they taped two out of the threeLEDs on the strip so that they
got a dim enough one.
However, what I have beenfinding is that the better
brands of LED strips, the waythey dim is with pulse pulsed
width modulation at a highenough frequency after already
mostly converting to DC, thatessentially they're going on and

(32:06):
off between 1200 and 2,000 timesper second, which is above the
threshold that will really causethe problems.
It's when you're in the hundredsof hertz cycling on and off that
you really get the headacheissues.
So what that means is that a lotof these products, which are
just the normal multicolor LEDstuffs, will likely be fine when
it comes to getting this effect.
One thing that both those likethe researchers never talked

(32:28):
about, and there it has not comeup in any of my research, but
makes complete sense if you lookat enough science of optics, is
the rods in your eye areresponsible for processing like
low light contrast.
That's what you're mostly usingwhen it's very, very dim.
And that's why when it's likereally dark out, you mostly
don't have much colorperception.
It's just like all shades ofgray.

(32:50):
So the rods are not reallyresponsible for the beneficial
effect of green light when itcomes to treating pain.
It's really the cones.
And the cones are mostly onlyfunctional in your primary focus
area.
So they're not really doing muchin your peripheral vision.
You're getting most of yourcolor vision out of your central
focus.
And when it comes to a singlelight, like, you know, the two

(33:11):
or three hundred dollar lamp,what you want is to get enough
of the cones being saturated bythe green light within your
primary view.
So when the researchers did astudy on the LED strips, that's
actually a lot better.
If you're sitting there andlooking at like a book and
you're sort of getting thispervasive green at a low level,
my theory is that you're gonnaget a better effect rather than

(33:32):
having a single bright source,which bright sources with high
contrast can also triggerheadaches.
So my guess is the ideal isgonna be a more diffuse green
light at a low intensity ratherthan like if you can get it dim
enough and you're reading withlike the lamp right in front of
you and you've got the book andit's dim in the right level,
that'll probably be fine.
But it's like another pointwhere you need to calibrate

(33:56):
properly to get the goodbenefit, and these companies
don't talk about it at all.

SPEAKER_01 (34:02):
I feel like in the study, another benefit is just
say it telling people, like,yeah, you can't be on your phone
while this is happening.
Just if you have to read a book,fucker.
Stop like scroll doom scrollingInstagram for a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 (34:14):
There was a control though, where they were spending
10 weeks with white LEDs and 10weeks with green LEDs.
So the control group, yeah, thecontrol group did not experience
the same benefits.
It's not just that they weresitting in a comm room for that
amount of time not using theirphones.
Although it is actually possibleusing the uh like assistive
device settings on a phone toput a green filter over the

(34:36):
phone so that the only lightcoming out is in the green
spectrum.

SPEAKER_01 (34:40):
Okay.
So what colors should people gowith then?
What do you after everything?
What are what are we doing?
Are we going red?
We go in green, we go in both.
Do we start in the morning withred and then uh before night?
Before like I want the analgesiceffects before I go to bed.
I'm gonna go green.

SPEAKER_02 (34:53):
If you want the full recipe of colors, essentially,
what you would want is in theearly morning, you want the blue
light to properly set yourcircadian rhythm and I want full
Huberman.
I want full Huberman.
That's right.
So you wake up at 4 a.m.
and you start sprinting.

SPEAKER_01 (35:08):
Yes, and you get the blue light.
Okay, I'm with you.
We're waiting 90 minutes forcoffee.
I remember that.
We wait 90 minutes for thecoffee.

SPEAKER_02 (35:14):
You wait 90 minutes.
You you come back, and afteryou've gotten that blue light in
your the proper the proper partof your eye, then you jump into
your cold plunge, where in thecold plunge you're surrounded by
red lights.

SPEAKER_01 (35:24):
Oh, at the same time, I like it.

SPEAKER_02 (35:26):
Yeah, because that way you're getting like the uh
the anti-inflammatory effects ofthe cold combined with the red.
It's you and why waste time,really?

SPEAKER_01 (35:34):
They don't counter counteract each other.
They they're the it's asymbiotic relationship, is what
you're telling me.
Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 (35:41):
Does it count if the ice plunge is just red 40?

SPEAKER_01 (35:44):
Ooh.
Just a wait, a bucket, like it'sa giant bat of red 40.

SPEAKER_00 (35:48):
A bucket of icy red 40.

SPEAKER_01 (35:49):
It's the freaking icy hot.

SPEAKER_00 (35:51):
There's only one way to tell.

SPEAKER_01 (35:53):
Oh shit.
I would do I would totally doit.
I mean, well, let's see.
Apparently, your see-throughwith yellow five.
What happens with red 40?
There's only one way to tell.
Only one way.

SPEAKER_02 (36:03):
You know, I've had I had some people in my comments
recently saying that uh how darethey do animal testing for these
studies.
So I think they would like tovolunteer.

SPEAKER_01 (36:12):
I'm sure some humans would do it.
I'm sure like we got peopleeating like cowbrains and shit.
Like, I'm sure we could get somepeople to sign up to to jump in
a bucket of red 40.

SPEAKER_00 (36:22):
You got that guy that ate raw chicken until he
got sick.
Oh, did he stop?
Did that happen?
He finally stopped at one point,and like there was no mention of
anything.
But it's kind of obvious heprobably finally got sick.
Maybe.

SPEAKER_02 (36:37):
I mean, I I did like uh actually a video on Hamo too
where I had a theory that whenit theoretically there's a range
of acidities that you can havefor your stomach within like the
normal human spectrum.
And the reason why are more ableto eat just carrion without a
problem, one of the big ones hasto do with the lowered acidity

(36:58):
in their stomach environment,killing off more bacteria than
humans.
So I would posit that there arecertain people that have a
greater ability to surviveeating raw meat than others.
And it's also if you're eatingit straight, like very, very
fresh, you're gonna get farlower bacterial exposure than if

(37:19):
you're eating it, you know, likefrom Costco defrosted on your
counter overnight.
Right.
Right.
So if it's very fresh and hehappens to be somewhere who can
handle it.

SPEAKER_01 (37:28):
What you're what I'm hearing is if I take another
acid to lower the pH of mystomach, I take a little battery
acid or whatever I have lyingaround, that will decrease my
risk of getting sick from saidraw meat.

SPEAKER_02 (37:41):
It's possible.
I would recommend sulfuric acidif you have it.

SPEAKER_01 (37:45):
Okay, so I like it.
Okay, so like what if I wastrying to get down to vulture
level?
Because I know vultures havelike a pH of like 0.5 or some
shit.

SPEAKER_02 (37:52):
Like something between one and two, but it's
it's pretty crazy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (37:56):
I remember it's really low, like it's super low.
Like, well, if I'm if I wantvulture bile, if I want vulture
stomach acid, how much sulfuricacid will I need to reach said
level?

SPEAKER_02 (38:07):
That is a good question.
Uh I think black volume.

SPEAKER_00 (38:10):
Asking the real questions here.

SPEAKER_02 (38:11):
I guess though they're between three and four.
That's interesting.

SPEAKER_01 (38:14):
Are they three and four?
I thought vultures really Ithought the uh they were like
super duper acidic, and that'swhy they eat raw meat.

SPEAKER_02 (38:22):
There's a whole bunch.
There's also, it's not just theacidity, there also has to do
with their immune systems beingslightly different and more
primed.
Like there's a lot of differentstages, even when it comes to
like dogs actually haveantibacterial saliva.

SPEAKER_01 (38:36):
Okay.
But why get sick one bit by dog?

SPEAKER_00 (38:39):
So we need to transplant a dog's tongue on
Liam, uh, have him consume somesulfuric acid and inject him
with vulture antibodies.

SPEAKER_02 (38:50):
This sounds like while bathing.
Can we do one at a time?

SPEAKER_01 (38:54):
I feel like we're really jumping into the red 40
pool when we should really bedipping our toes in at first.
I I I so yeah, I will so rawmeat, bad.
Don't probably still just don'teat that.
Just cook it faster.
Or not faster, better, lesssick.
Yeah, and then less worstest.
Less worstest.
And then so then other allcolors have benefit, except it

(39:16):
seems like white.
White seems like it doesnothing.

SPEAKER_02 (39:18):
I mean, blue light is but white is the combination
of everything.

SPEAKER_01 (39:22):
Oh, okay.
So that's the problem.
There's too many colors.

SPEAKER_02 (39:24):
Too many colors you get confused.

SPEAKER_01 (39:26):
So you need to start with, so you can start with one.
So we got green light, we gotred light, white, that's stupid.
Get it out of here.
We should just get rid of that.
Who needs it anyway?

SPEAKER_00 (39:34):
What the f what are you doing back here?

SPEAKER_01 (39:36):
Get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 (39:37):
Go away.
Suddenly, Mike.

SPEAKER_02 (39:41):
Alright, guys, so I'm a Visa.

SPEAKER_01 (39:44):
Let me introduce myself.
What the hell?
Uh so okay, what about store?
So if we get stores, likeTarget, they're red.
So why don't instead of whitelight, they just have red
throughout their store.
We do that, and then they getred light therapy as you're go
as you're shopping.

SPEAKER_02 (39:58):
I could see that being a thing in certain types
of stores.
Target, it might be a bitdifficult.
You know, everyone's like going,hey, I bought this green
sweater.
Wait a minute.

SPEAKER_01 (40:05):
Oh, yeah.
I guess I didn't think about thecolor situation of buying stuff.

SPEAKER_02 (40:09):
It would be more like I bought this gray sweater.
So I'm in the middle ofdesigning a line of merch, and
one of the things that I'mworking on that I'm still doing
a lot of testing is I want adesign that looks different
under different colors of light.

SPEAKER_04 (40:22):
Oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_02 (40:22):
I think it would be very fun to like have my shirt
look like say one thing.
Like, so I have a design whereit's like, don't talk to me, I'm
in pain, but that's in pain inwhite light or red light.
But then when you put it ongreen light, it says I'm
healing.
Oh, I like that.
That's good.

SPEAKER_01 (40:40):
How's it coming?
How's it coming along so far?
Is it kind of working?
Not working.

SPEAKER_02 (40:45):
I can show you guys like the uh the concept.
If you pull it up here, that'dbe fun.

SPEAKER_01 (40:50):
Because it's like those ones I've seen.

SPEAKER_00 (40:52):
We'll just describe it for the visually impaired
that are less stinking.

SPEAKER_03 (40:56):
Or you go over to YouTube where the videos are
posted and you can see it.

unknown (41:01):
Let's see.

SPEAKER_01 (41:03):
It's like at the gym, like they have those ones
where that when they get wet,they have like it says something
different.
It's the same thing, just withthe light.

SPEAKER_03 (41:09):
What if you just make it super like when my shirt
gets wet?
It's suddenly a shirt thatdoesn't have nipples on it has
nipples on it.

SPEAKER_01 (41:18):
Is that just you or is that happening?

SPEAKER_02 (41:20):
No, it's it's the shirt, it's very carefully
designed.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (41:23):
It's not me, it's not like my nipples.
It's also a belly brand.

SPEAKER_02 (41:27):
It's one of those newfangled like positivity
brands where you have likebuilt-in nipples.
Built in nipples.
Everyone has nipples.
That's that's the thing.
No, my aerials aren't that big.
Where is the share?

SPEAKER_01 (41:40):
Yeah, I want okay.
Because like I like that at thegym.
You get like you're like, oh,uh, because the thing is, like,
at the gym, I don't even likesweat that much, but I see these
like cool shirts that likesweat, and then it's just like
comes on, like it has like alittle like slogan or some shit
once it gets wet, and like Idon't fucking sweat enough for
that.
So I want something with a lightthat I can just flip a switch
and then boom.

SPEAKER_00 (41:57):
What if I just make a gym lights and be like, hey,
uh let's change it up in here,let's get some red light going.

SPEAKER_01 (42:03):
I uh there's a gym that opened up near me, and that
has it has a whole posing room,just a room for fucking posing.
I'm like, damn, that's like afull-on influencer gym right
there.
That's insane.

SPEAKER_02 (42:14):
Then again, I have many times thought, hey, it
would be fun to film somecontent here, but I go to New
York sports clubs, so that's notreally doable.

SPEAKER_01 (42:23):
Let me just take my shirt off and start flexing.
This has a room dedicated justfor that.

SPEAKER_00 (42:28):
So Leon flexing videos when?

SPEAKER_01 (42:30):
I just go to the Y.
They got child watch for Oakley,so I probably not anytime soon.
Drop her off.
Let me go work out.
Take this child.
She'll be fine.

unknown (42:42):
Right.

SPEAKER_02 (42:42):
So I can't share my screen because of permissions
issues, and I'll have to restartRiverside.
But what I can do is probablydrop a basic thing into the
chat, which presumably is athing.

SPEAKER_01 (42:54):
It is a thing.
Even if it's what else is athing?
You know what else is a thing?
The DeLorean.

SPEAKER_03 (42:59):
It is a thing.
Do you want to contribute to ourDeLorean fund?

SPEAKER_01 (43:03):
DeLorean fund, yes.
To the 200 DeLorean.

SPEAKER_03 (43:07):
We're fundraising, not for the classic DeLorean,
but for the new one.

SPEAKER_01 (43:11):
The new one, yeah.
Man.
I was just telling them, like,because of New York now, I
probably need a new car becauseNew York has laws on salvage
vehicles.
My car is salvage.

SPEAKER_00 (43:23):
New York is the worst.

SPEAKER_01 (43:25):
It's really annoying.
I might have to trade it in justfor parts.
I like my car.

SPEAKER_03 (43:30):
When you say salvage, I imagine like a Mad
Max kind of situation.

SPEAKER_01 (43:34):
So that's what it was, and then it got uh tuned
down to just a 2012 NissanSentra.
A mild basic shape.

SPEAKER_03 (43:40):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (43:41):
Extra mild.

SPEAKER_03 (43:42):
Extra mild.
Is that the one with the the theside mirror isn't there?

SPEAKER_01 (43:47):
Is that extra mild not having a side mirror?

SPEAKER_03 (43:49):
I guess.

SPEAKER_00 (43:50):
I don't know.
What do you got?
A flamethrower on there?
I feel like extra mild would bemore safety features.

SPEAKER_01 (43:56):
I feel that's what I was thinking.
I'm thinking extra mild is likeit's got like it's got like 10
airbags and your seatbelt hasseat belts.
Yeah, exactly.
Every 50 miles an hour.
You know, it's that's the extramild.

SPEAKER_03 (44:10):
Put a roll cage on a Prius?

SPEAKER_01 (44:12):
Yeah, exactly.
That's the extra mild.

SPEAKER_03 (44:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:14):
So yeah, I might be needing a new car, so why not uh
quarter million dollar DeLorean?
Besides price.
Why not?

SPEAKER_02 (44:21):
Yeah, there is no reason not to.
And the thing is, oh yeah, goahead.
I couldn't share the screen andI couldn't drop an image in the
chat.
So I dropped a link to the imagein the chat.

SPEAKER_01 (44:31):
A link to the image.
I I want I still want to see it.
Let me see this.

SPEAKER_03 (44:35):
Oh, I like that.
I'd we I are you when are youselling these?
I want one.

SPEAKER_02 (44:40):
Uh coming to stores this Black Friday, hopefully.
Really?
That's soon.
That's a couple of weeks fromnow.
I'm trying to push to hit the tohit the rush.

SPEAKER_03 (44:50):
But interesting.
Well, this will be out tomorrowas at the time of this
recording.
So uh to those of you who arehearing this on 1113 25.

SPEAKER_01 (45:00):
There you go.

SPEAKER_03 (45:01):
Ah, you can share.
Cool.
Look at that.
Yeah, go over to YouTube so youcan look at the uh the or or
where could they see thisotherwise?

SPEAKER_02 (45:09):
On on your website or so right now it's not out
anywhere yet because I'm stillfinalizing like design bits.
I'm debating making it a bitmore complicated, but if they
sign up for my newsletter, I'llbe sending out all the details
uh soon.
I mean, probably postingsomething about it, but the
newsletter will have all thelinks.
So that's at like distilledscience.xyz.

SPEAKER_00 (45:28):
What's the blue one say?

SPEAKER_01 (45:29):
Healing, right?

SPEAKER_02 (45:31):
So the green the green is healing, the blue
technically says chilling.
Uh the red is in pain.
I am still trying to dial it inso that like, you know, in an
ideal world, you wouldn't beable to read the healing at all
in normal light, but that's veryhard to swing.

SPEAKER_01 (45:50):
Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 (45:52):
But as of right now, when you look at it in the like,
if you were to look at this ingreen light, you would only see
it say healing.
Whereas right now.

SPEAKER_01 (46:00):
Yeah, I get a shirt that changes depending on how
much ice cream I eat.
Just like I'm I'm I am full, Iam happy, I am satiated, I've
eaten and I've eaten a whole tubof bed and jerry's.

SPEAKER_02 (46:12):
You know, you want it to be like a muscle shirt
that's like as your stomachexpands a little bit, it somehow
changes how it looks.

SPEAKER_01 (46:19):
How about it, yeah, it changes from a muscle shirt
into like an extra, extra large,comfy sweater.
That's what I want.

SPEAKER_02 (46:25):
Exactly.
Oh, speaking of t-shirt designs,can you guys tell what this
design is?
Uh Rorschach test.
That's what I'm calling with.

SPEAKER_00 (46:34):
I'm gonna go with ice cream.
It's looking like a lava lamp tome.

SPEAKER_02 (46:38):
Try to turn your head upside down.

SPEAKER_00 (46:40):
I oh, it's Einstein! Well, now people really have to
go to uh oh that's crazy just tosee us all turn our heads.

SPEAKER_02 (46:49):
Here, I'll turn one way.
You can turn the other way.

SPEAKER_03 (46:51):
You just wanted to see us bend over.

SPEAKER_01 (46:53):
Yeah, it's Einstein.
It's a petri dish?

SPEAKER_02 (46:56):
No, Mike got it.
Huh.
It is Albert Einstein made outof a hundred circles.
Oh.

SPEAKER_03 (47:02):
Where do you find this?
I made it.
You made it.
Are you selling these?

SPEAKER_02 (47:07):
This is coming to stores this Black Friday.

SPEAKER_00 (47:11):
Everything's coming Black Friday.
All store all shirts coming tostores this Black Friday.

SPEAKER_02 (47:15):
Basically, I was thinking to myself, like, use
code Mike needs a plan.
I wanted to come up with somesort of line of merch, but I I
hate when merch is just my nameor something very, very simple.
So I wanted it to be somethingthat I myself would enjoy
wearing because there'ssomething like nerdy about it
inherently.
So I love optical illusions.
I love like when I can sort ofdo a mathy science-y thing on

(47:39):
the shirt itself.
I think this one I went a littlebit too far because almost no
one can tell what it is just bylooking at it, even when they're
like properly oriented.
So maybe I'll do like abeginner's level one where it's
face right side up and then likean expert one where it's upside
down.
But I don't know.
I love the concept of it beinglike you're up close and it's
just totally nothing.
But like from far enough away atthe right angle, it's like a

(48:00):
stereogram on a shirt.
I've thought about doing that.
So actually, I've created somecool stereogram that yeah, I
used to love those as a kid.
But the problem with stereogramis.

SPEAKER_00 (48:09):
How about two shirts that like each one is part of
the stereogram?

SPEAKER_02 (48:12):
And then it's like when people stand close enough
together the right way.

SPEAKER_00 (48:16):
Yeah.
Buddy shirt.

SPEAKER_02 (48:18):
Talk about a couple's purchase.

SPEAKER_03 (48:19):
Just this is an absolutely incredible hobby that
you have.
I I'm in great admirationbecause I unfortunately got the
type of autism that makes myteeth hurt at Walmart.

SPEAKER_01 (48:30):
Oh, damn.

SPEAKER_03 (48:31):
So I this is I I love, I want to three of these.
Yeah, it's uh I I can't doanything.
It's it's bad.
So it's it, I everything I'veheard so far about these shirts,
I love it.
Is it under a brand name?
Is it under your name?
I want people to know how tofind these.

SPEAKER_02 (48:53):
I mean, it's going to be under my distilled science
brand, but also it'll be I I'vecreated a store called Stem
Cells.

SPEAKER_01 (48:59):
I like it.
I like it.
I'm with it.
I'm with it.

SPEAKER_02 (49:03):
So I I have the domain, it's launching soon.
I'm building out the store.

SPEAKER_01 (49:07):
Crazy that no one had.

SPEAKER_03 (49:09):
That's great.
Yeah.

unknown (49:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (49:10):
This is awesome.

SPEAKER_02 (49:12):
Like, I've been curating for years a list of all
sorts of like reallyfascinating, nerdy products.
Like I do an annual like giftguide for nerds.
I figured why not sort of justbring everything together and
introduce a few of my ownproducts because I'm nerdy like
that.
That's true.
I should add that to my websitefor a mere$400,000.

SPEAKER_03 (49:38):
He's got to cover the lawsuit money too.
He gets sued by the DeLoreanMotor Company.

SPEAKER_02 (49:43):
No, no, no, it's fine.
It's just gonna be like uh anaffiliate link to them.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (49:47):
Oh, okay.
I thought, well, didn't he gobankrupt from selling drugs?
It's fine.
It'll be okay.

SPEAKER_03 (49:53):
Well, he's not here anymore.
Oh John Dean died in 2000.

SPEAKER_01 (49:57):
Oh, so then it's fine.

SPEAKER_03 (49:58):
Also, that sounds like a fake name.
Like, oh, who started theDeLorean Motor Company?
John Dean?
It's really his name.

SPEAKER_01 (50:05):
I worked at a restaurant where the owner's
name was John DeJohn.
And I'm not joking, that wasactually his name.

SPEAKER_02 (50:11):
Did he really like mustard?

SPEAKER_03 (50:13):
I I don't or he probably hated it actually.

SPEAKER_01 (50:17):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 (50:19):
He got so sick of hearing about it that he's like,
he can't do it anymore.
I can't hear this again.

SPEAKER_01 (50:24):
Well, we're uh I think we're where we're uh
besides uh stem cells.
Where else can people find you?

SPEAKER_02 (50:30):
Besides stem cells, well, it's distilled science on
all the platforms.
TikTok, Instagram, YouTube, it'sdistilled science.xyz.

SPEAKER_01 (50:40):
Uh theoretically, all your science needs.

SPEAKER_00 (50:44):
And your Black Friday shop, your paradigm got
lots of options.

SPEAKER_02 (50:47):
Hopefully it counters.
Actually, you know what, as aslong we're on this as we're on
this topic, I might as well showoff the other design.

SPEAKER_03 (50:55):
Please.
Again, you can see all of thison YouTube.
You go to YouTube, the inmoderation YouTube, and you can
see this.

SPEAKER_00 (51:02):
Or you can go to people over on Spotify are like,
screw you, Mike.
I'm staying on Spotify.

SPEAKER_01 (51:07):
So this bar, so it's a little like only facts.
QR code?
Only facts.
Spread it out a little more.
Spread out your only facts alittle bit more.

SPEAKER_03 (51:16):
Spread it open.
I just I I I broke one of myrules.
I never scan QR codes.

SPEAKER_01 (51:22):
Never I scan everyone I see because you never
know what gold you're gonnafind.

SPEAKER_03 (51:26):
I've just accessed Evacio's OnlyFacts, and uh it
says the average human bodycontains enough carbon to make
around 900 pencils.

SPEAKER_01 (51:36):
How many DeLoreans can it make?

SPEAKER_03 (51:38):
How many DeLoreans can it make?
So if I refresh, do I get a newone?

SPEAKER_02 (51:42):
You will.
Right now, what you're lookingat is a dummy page that is not
fully functional yet.
I'm in the process of stillfully building it.
The goal is to have it whereit's like a new fact of the day
that users can also submit factsto that will then get fact
checked before uh going up.
But as I said, I don't likerandom designs, I like nerdy
functional ones, so this wouldbe a new science fact whenever

(52:03):
you scan.

SPEAKER_03 (52:04):
It's very simple.
It's it's straightforward.
It says exactly what it is here.
You just see the fact, and andthat's that's that.
It's a set it's like a snapplefact.

SPEAKER_00 (52:12):
And only a fact.

SPEAKER_01 (52:13):
I miss the Snapple facts.
I like I like the Snapple facts.

SPEAKER_02 (52:16):
Oh yeah, those were fun and sometimes accurate.

SPEAKER_01 (52:20):
Who cares about accuracy, especially not these
days, doesn't matter anymore.

SPEAKER_02 (52:23):
It's like, you know, the crazy hot scale, it's sort
of like that with facts, also.
Like if you want to believe itenough, then you'll just not
want a fact jacket.
Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 (52:33):
This is it's this is very V sauce what you're doing
here.
This is a V Sauce, is what itis.
A V sauce.

SPEAKER_00 (52:39):
Not to be confused with V Shred, because we hate
that guy.
No, we hate that guy.

SPEAKER_03 (52:42):
Fuck that guy.
The worst.

unknown (52:44):
Yes.

SPEAKER_00 (52:44):
Oh, you guys are gonna have to do that.

SPEAKER_01 (52:45):
Someone who I do enjoy, uh, my daughter, I have
to go get because she isstranded at daycare and she
can't drive yet.
She's almost there.
Another early.
15 years, yeah, she'll be she'llbe there, but not quite.
So I need to go get that one.
So I'm gonna say goodnight toeveryone.
I'm gonna be searching DeLoreansas I get off here.

(53:07):
Sounds good.
Fun chatting with you, Liam.
See you later.
See you later.

SPEAKER_00 (53:10):
Coming soon, only DeLoreans.
Very niche market.
Well, Mike's in the market, soI've well I'm in the market.

SPEAKER_03 (53:16):
Me and Liam are gonna co own that DeLorean.
We've been plotting on this fora while.

SPEAKER_02 (53:21):
Have you worked out how you're gonna do your custody
split?

SPEAKER_03 (53:24):
I don't know.
Honestly, I I I'm probably gonnabe a deadbeat DeLorean owner.
I'm gonna be quite honest.
I'm gonna be super about it.
Yeah, once we have it, I'm justgonna dip, leave town.