Roundtable: The Old Folks of Social Media

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to In Moderation, the show where we
give you a moderate dose of infosarcasm and we already know
we're not approved.

Speaker 2 (00:16):
I think I'm going to get a fake natty accusation from
Greg Doucette for the weirdeststrength feat, really.
Yeah, he has the hardest timebelieving that on grip
dynameters that I'm squeezing200.
I've shown him twice now andboth times he's like that's

(00:36):
abnormal, you should get a newmachine.
I don't know about that.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
The only person I've ever had genuinely accuse me of
steroids is this person calledfreely, the banana girl oh, oh
yeah, uh doesn't know freelyokay.
Well, I don't know some peopleit's it's kind of older stuff
now, but it's the only personthat's ever yeah, it was, she
was, I think that was.
I think it was like four yearsago when she made that video and

(01:03):
but it's the only like legit,like everyone else is.
Like no, no, he's probably notdrunk.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
I'm like come on man.

Speaker 3 (01:09):
Let me have this.
Come on, accuse me, man, right,jackies.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
The Natty or Nots are just the dumbest shit, but like
it works man, that's you know.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
It's the Jersey Shore of fitness content.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Yeah, that's the Jersey Shore of fitness content.
Yeah, got the drama andeverything like that.
What is it about A Natty or Notthat is so enticing to people?
I guess like okay, so it's gotthe mystery People always love
kind of like a good mystery andit's got a debate around it.
People like to debate eachother on pretty much anything,
so it's kind of got thisdivisive thing.

(01:43):
But like what else is it what?
What else is it like why, who?

Speaker 3 (01:49):
cares.
I think it's.
I think part of it is the likethe dynamic of, well, do we
deserve to know, right?
And then there's that argumentof if someone is in, especially
in the fitness space, are theyrequired to disclose that?
And and then there's, like Idon't know, I think there's just
like a lot of layers as to likethe argument as to whether or

(02:13):
not it's deserved to know.
Um, I think that's that's a bigpart of it, like what interests
people?

Speaker 2 (02:19):
um, but yeah, I mean, I don't, it's not something I
really care too much about, butit definitely works, it's
definitely uh when, when you'regoing into it and somebody has
what you don't have they have aphysique that you're building
towards and you have struggledin any way there's, for a lot of
people it's an affirmation oftheir suspicion, whether it's
true or not.
Oh, they only have that becausethey cheated.

(02:41):
So I can feel better about me,I can feel better about my
accomplishments or my struggles.
I could do that, too, if I wason steroids.
Every person who's ever saidthat is because they're not
doing as well as they want toand they're looking for that
affirmation or that confirmationthat they're correct in some
way.
But there's also, just straightup, people love to watch other

(03:02):
people fight.
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
Right, that's a big part of it for certain like I
mean, that's why wrestling stillexists yeah, it's we.
You know we love a goodargument about anything, but
this one is just an interestingone.
I I think what you said isaccurate there about we.
We want a lot of people wantthem to be on steroids, because
then you say, oh well, that'swhy so I feel like you can

(03:26):
dismiss you can just be like ohwell, obviously, I think, if you
like, took a poll like mostlike the people who are like
less aren't as muscular as theperson would say they're on
steroids.
And the people who are moremuscular than them would
probably say they're not onsteroids, because it's just like
what if, oh, if they're biggerthan me, probably steroids.
I kind of feel like that's akind of knee-jerk reaction for a

(03:49):
lot of not for everyone, butfor a lot of people.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
I would say that was the bulk of the conversation
until the last few years.
One of the benefits of that's avery small silver lining.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
It's a gray lining yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
All of this discussion is kind of a
calibration and an understandingof roughly what kind of
difference steroids makes andpeople understanding that even
if you're on steroids, there are.
Now people understand thenuance of.
There are responders,non-responders and everyone in
between.
Now they're understanding towhat extent, uh, genetics can

(04:23):
play a role.
You know, when you say geneticsis only 10%, 10% is huge.
When you're differentiatingbetween endpoints, 10% is
massive.
That's the Olympia stage andthe best looking guy in the gym
is 10%.
So like we understand way moreabout it and at least in this

(04:45):
portion of the pendulum swing,we've come away from complete
vilification and you must hideit and we swang all the way over
into celebrating, glorify it.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
Do you think that's swinging a little bit back?
We're accepting it more becauseof social media and people are
going on social media saying,hey, yeah, no, this is awesome,
do it?

Speaker 2 (05:07):
Exactly like exposure therapy Instead of like yes, I
do this, I want to beaccountable and I want you to
have realistic expectations.
They're like nah, man, even ifyou take in clomiphene citrate,
that's just stimulating yourtestes, okay.

Speaker 3 (05:18):
That doesn't even count.

Speaker 2 (05:19):
The HGH is just stimulating your pituitary
glands.
You're still natty even thoughyou've got uh testosterone of 12
to 1500.

Speaker 3 (05:27):
Yeah, dude, it's, it's crazy.
There's just like I mean, I'msure you guys have all seen it,
but there's like people whosetheir whole social media thing
is I am on steroids, yeah, yeah,that's like, that's all they,
that's just their whole thing,you know, and it encourages.
It's weird because at first itwas like when someone was
actually talking about it andthey were honest about it, it
was refreshing and it was likeman, finally someone is coming

(05:47):
out and being honest, right.
But now it's at the point whereit's like it's so common that
there's like 17 year oldsthey're like should I take
steroids?
And like I have people comingup to me in the gym, you know,
and like asking like, have youever taken anything I was
thinking about?
Like, dude, you've been workingout for a year.
Dude, like why are you thinkingabout this already?
But it's a guaranteed part.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
I work with teenagers and they come to me with that
shit all the time it's a fineline between that, like coming
out a few people.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Let's take a noel diesel or whatever like a really
popular fitness influencer whosays like hey, I'm massive, I'm
a giant boulder.
Like, yes, I take uh steroids.
I'm not going to tell you whatI take because I don't want
people replicating this.
I just want to be open andhonest.
And people are like cool, Itotally understand that and I I
have a lot of respect for that.

(06:33):
And then it slowly shifted intolike every 17 year old but like
how can I get a hold of x, yand z, whatever, yeah, I just
came across a tiktok account whoit's?

Speaker 2 (06:45):
it's literally nothing else.
He named himself the peptidesguy like and that's all he does
is any and I watched him for anhour and any substance that
someone brought up.
He's like yeah, you should trythat.
Oh, yeah, you should try that,use my code.
And it was all about gettingpeople to go ahead and use his
affiliate code, for I believethe company was research chems.

(07:06):
They've popped up before.
They're problematic.
They're the ones who send abunch of junk to Togi and he's
killing himself.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
What's what?
So do you know?
Like, what's up with that?
Like those kind of companies,do they get around the law by
saying, like this isn't forhuman consumption or literally
all they have to do, yeah.
Interesting.

Speaker 2 (07:25):
Because, because they're not scheduled, they're,
yeah, test chemicals, um, andyou don't at this time.
In order to have a testchemical that is not for human
consumption, you don't currentlyneed a license in order to
receive them.
You can get in trouble ifyou're administering them to
people, uh, and I suppose insome states they could try and
get you on self-harm if you'readministering it to yourself.
But outside of that, the worstthat's going to happen to you is

(07:47):
you get bounced out of acompetition because you cheated
using PEDs.

Speaker 1 (07:50):
Huh, that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
And you know side effects kidney failure, heart
failure Do they like just showup with like hey?

Speaker 1 (07:56):
this isn't for you to inject, but if you did this, is
how you would go about it LikeI'm just.

Speaker 2 (08:03):
I really did want to peptide guys Tick, tocks, Yep,
you literally.
He says I'm not telling you toput this in your body, but if
you were to do research withthis, you know, inject it into
an orange this is how you wouldturn the powder into the proper
soluble liquid Interest.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
That's fascinating to me.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:20):
Terrifying, but also sort of they don't even have to
try hard.

Speaker 4 (08:23):
It's terrifying when people reconstitute them wrong.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (08:28):
I don't even.
That's Darwinism, that's yeah.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
Survival of the fittest.
Is that just like?
We just have the raw milkdebate again where it's just
kind of like, oh, gosh, oh, oohyeah.

Speaker 2 (08:42):
I mean, we had a kid lose a chunk of his glute
recently.
He was 20 years old.
He'd been on for at least twoyears.
He looked between Liam's ageand my age.
Whatever your actual age is, Idon't know, you look young 33,.

Speaker 1 (08:58):
I want to say I don't remember at this point, 69.
Your age I don't remember.
I feel like 32.
I mean, between 32, I'm like 32, 33 or 34.
I'm always kind of just like Iknow within three years of my
age.

Speaker 2 (09:09):
Okay, okay I thought you were like 25, so he looks.
He looks at I'm 46 and he looksabout 34, 35 years old.
At 20 he's on so much, but hegave himself mirza in his own
ass, ass because he kept pinningup at the gym.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Mirza's horrible.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
He survived.
We caught it in time.
We knew what it was, we saw itand we're like you need to go to
the effing hospital.
He went to the hospital.
They removed a chunk the sizeof my fist from his glute, oh
wow.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
We need accounts dedicated to that, just like to
those things happening, Just sopeople can see that and they're
like oh, that peptides guydoesn't seem as interesting
anymore.
We could call it cautionaryfails.
We'll probably get into someissues with moderation and showy
videos and all of that sort ofstuff, but I feel like we'd be

(10:03):
doing a service.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Go 18 plus pay wallet for like five cents a month.
Don't worry, liam.

Speaker 4 (10:11):
Those dings you heard just now were your texts
finally getting to me.
Apparently, your texts werestuck in traffic too.

Speaker 1 (10:18):
Yeah, I texted.
I was like I'm stuck in rushhour traffic.
I will be there at some point.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, that's good At some point.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
Man that stuck in rush hour traffic.
I will be there at some point.
Yeah, that's good, it's yeah.
Yeah, that's man, that'sfucking wild.
The whole like just steroidsthing to me is I get why like
it's enticing, especially at ayoung, like young male age.
You're 18, like you see all the, you know the social media and
whatnot, but there's just somany downsides and like you
don't see that from like thepeople who are promoting it on

(10:45):
social media.

Speaker 3 (10:45):
It's like usually the downsides, and you don't see
that from the people who arepromoting it on social media.
It's like usually the downsidestake a while and that's the
problem.
That's fair.

Speaker 4 (10:51):
And they're so embarrassed they don't want to
talk about them.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, yeah.
And you see, like we've seen alot of bodybuilders, Like there
was a woman even who passed away, who died she was very young at
the Arnold this year.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
At the Arnold.
Yeah, she was 20.

Speaker 1 (11:10):
Jesus yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
And that was I don't know.
I don't remember the exactreason.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Dehydration from diuretics.
Oh geez yeah, which she didn'teven compete that weekend.

Speaker 3 (11:30):
She was just on diuretics and prep for something
.
Oh, really, I had I don't know.
Okay, that's crazy.
That was the crazy part.
She went there as an attendeeand died.
And there was another one wheresomeone passed away at one of
these, um, transformation events, where it was like a
bodybuilding show, but they hadlike the transformation division
, which is like people that havelost a lot of weight and uh,
yeah, it's weird, like thatwhole thing is weird.
Like there's the transformationdivision, which is cool in my
mind, right, people that havelost a lot of weight and uh,
yeah, it's weird, like thatwhole thing is weird.
Like there's the transformationdivision, which is cool in my
mind, right, people that havelost a lot of weight or, you

(11:50):
know, they've even had people inwheelchairs, people have been
burned or whatever.
But there are people that aredoing these divisions that are
also openly doing steroids andI'm like that feels wrong to me,
like that just doesn't feelright, like that, just like this
guy won and he's like sittingthere flexing and the guy next

(12:10):
to him is in a wheelchair andI'm like that doesn't feel right
, like he beat the guy.
It just I don't know.
Like, yeah, you shouldn't justautomatically win if you're in
wheelchair.
That's fair, but it justdoesn't feel right to me.
That just feels a little weirdto me.
But you know, yeah, it'sinteresting.
So what are we talking abouttonight?

Speaker 4 (12:28):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (12:28):
I know liam liam liam hey, rob, I found my pencil,
you found your pen that's well,see that now we just end it all
right here we go everyone likerob got his pencil I got my
pencil to let people know don'tbe your worst.

Speaker 2 (12:42):
Is that a euphemism?
I'm sure you're concerned ifyou want to be Tonight on the
show.

Speaker 4 (12:46):
We've got these two.
I'll let them introducethemselves.
I'm going to go get a drink,bro we'll talk for an hour.

Speaker 3 (12:52):
It'll be fine.
Yeah, that's true.
You want to go first.
You can go first.
Oh are we?

Speaker 2 (12:57):
actually starting.
Oh yeah, I am honored to be onthe same screen with my good
friends Rob, my sort of kind ofsalty acquaintance, liam and my
dear child John Cloud.
Obese to Beast.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
Hello, I also have the honor to be sharing the
screen with all of these threelovely individuals.
My name is John.
We're Obese to Beast.
I'm walking on a walking pad.

Speaker 2 (13:25):
If it gets annoying, I apologize for those of you who
are enjoying this on a podcasttwo of us have amazing hair, one
of us has an amazing beard andthe other guy is here well, I
think my hair is pretty nice,but it's fine this episode, we
basically brought the old folksout of the old folks home.

Speaker 4 (13:39):
I mean, between you two, you two have been on social
media a combination of like 50years now, dude.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
Why don't you guys just tell us.
I want to hear some storiesLike when you started out and
like not social, how like thefitness industry was, like when
you were, when you were starting.

Speaker 4 (13:56):
Back in my day.

Speaker 3 (13:58):
Yeah, the back in my day it's.
I mean so, like when I so forthose of you I don't know you
know, my name is obese to beastthat's like my name on social
media, and that came about in2014 was the first time I made a
page that was called obesebeast, which the reason that I
did that was because I waslosing weight at the time.
If you don't know.

(14:19):
If you don't know, I used to be400 pounds less, a little bit
right, and at the time,instagram was not brand new, but
it wasn't old yet you know.

Speaker 4 (14:28):
Now, it's kind of old .

Speaker 3 (14:29):
It was still cool, you know, and you couldn't post
videos, you couldn't poststories, you know, it was
literally just posts.
And I felt bad that every postthat I was posting at the time
was weight loss stuff, and I waslike you know what, let me make
another page that is onlyweight loss and I can post as
much as I want, and at the timeit was very normal to post three

(14:50):
times a day, you know, becausethat's all that was the.
There was no stories, there wasno other way to post, right?
And so I was like okay, what'sa name?
And I was like thinking and Ijust came up with obesity
because I thought it soundedkind of nice, it kind of didn't
rhyme, but it was smooth, and Iwas like, okay, cool, but at
that point, like there wasn't,there wasn't like a fitness
thing on social media, reallylike the only real fitness thing

(15:12):
there was.
I don't know how many of youguys remember this.
There's this thing calledshreds and it's very weird
because at the time, not longafter I started, there started
coming out stories about thestuff that Shreds people were
doing, and one of the peoplethat was really big back then is
now even bigger now and it'sjust very weird the

(15:35):
juxtaposition, but I don't wantto, we don't have to get into
that.
But yeah, so, like when Istarted though, like it wasn't
like a I'm going to be aninfluencer, that didn't.
That moniker didn't reallyexist yet, and so when I started
, it was truly like I just wantto post and not feel bad about
annoying my friends and family,so I'll just make a page and

(15:56):
post whatever I want, and therewas no algorithm that you
thought of.
It was just sharing your storyright of, it was just sharing
your story right.
And it's been very interestingfeeling like I kind of started
from the beginning and seeinghow much things have changed
over the years, because thingsnow, like I do struggle, like

(16:17):
for sure, with staying on top ofthings because of how much it
evolves so much now and likethings are changing so rapidly
and so it's.
It's definitely been veryinteresting as being someone
that's seen as, like you know, adinosaur and OG or whatever you
want to use, you know, likebecause I have been doing this
for so long.
But I am appreciative of thefact that I started when I did,

(16:38):
because it definitely helps meand grounds me in, like I know
why I started and that's why Itry to continue doing what I'm
doing, right?
I don't know if I reallyanswered the question there, but
spot on dude.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
The irony is is that, um, I started technically in
2018, uh, and I've got like 15,almost 20 years on, john, but he
was one of the first peoplethat I watched.
Um, I started watching becauseI was trying to learn about
strong man.
I got out of the Marine Corpsand I fell in love with strong
man and powerlifting and therewere a few content creators that

(17:13):
that covered that mostlypowerlifting, very little on
strong man.
But there was Alan Thrall, youknow, back in 2013, he started
his channel and I followed himand I actually got to meet him
at California's strongest man,an event I was helping to run
and he was competing at, andhe's a really good dude and, uh,
you know, rubbed elbows eversince.
Uh kept up with him through hismany strange phases and it's

(17:37):
like John was like the next year.
I was like, oh, look at thisincredible kid.
You were doing CrossFit at thetime, like a lot of CrossFit,
and I didn't have a particularlygood opinion of CrossFit, but I
liked you.

Speaker 1 (17:51):
So I could deal with CrossFit as long as I was
watching you.
I think a lot of people don'thave a great opinion of CrossFit
.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Well, a lot of that is actually the fault of NSCA
that falsified the injuriousrates in their study and they
got sued for it.
So, um, while Greg Glassman isa piece of work, and I think
that the uh level of knowledgethat you need to have to be a
level one, uh certified trainerand open a gym is embarrassingly

(18:15):
and shamefully low.
Uh, two days, nine movements, athousand dollars that's what it
was when, um, I was looking atit.
Looking at it.
I hope it's improved becausethat is pathetic.
Uh.
But a lot of things rapidlychanged over the years.
I started off as a dramacontent channel because I was
following a bad example, uh, anindividual that john and I both

(18:37):
know and we learned valuablelessons not even worth to
mention it honestly truly I.
I know how you feel I, when I'm,when I'm on here or when I'm
anywhere else, I have no problembeing very specific about what
I'm talking about, but I respectyour generally
non-confrontational position andI will not put you in a bad
spot.
Maybe I'm just a weenie, butyou know, I just don't even
you're a solid, smooth dude whodoesn't need the friction me, I

(19:00):
want that smoke all day long.
I'm just waiting for one ofthese fools to open their mouth.

Speaker 1 (19:04):
Well, you started as a drama channel, so I feel like
you should.
You still have some of that in.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
you right, I got a lot of fight in me, but when I
realized in within the first twoyears that I was looking for
things to have a problem withinstead of addressing problems
that already existed, I feltdirty and I stopped and I've
never really come back to it asanything more than a hobby since
I coach, I online coach, uh, Iwork with, uh, some amazing

(19:29):
student athletes and I makecontent when I want, which that
way, the pressure is never tocatch up.
As John was talking about his,I've never felt it and nothing
bad has ever happened to me insocial media.
When, when Eric uh and Carriewas trying to like make negative
videos about me because I hadthe audacity to defend AthleanX,
I didn't care.

(19:49):
When he was really really justdesperately calling for
attention.
I didn't care when the personthat I formerly worked with that
John's aware of literally triedto subvert and attack my family
to punish me for not making thecontent drama style the way
that he wanted, because heconsidered me his protege.
He's the only person on thelist who's on site him and two

(20:12):
of his moderators.
I'll handle that, but that's notgoing to be on a channel.
That's not going to be dramacontent.
That's going to be oneconversation in two fists.
That's all it's going to be.
That's a far cry from where I'mat now, where I'm looking at an
increasingly sedentary society,which I've always acknowledged,
and very simple solutions, amuch more delicate economy where

(20:34):
people don't have the funds oreasy access to medical
interventions, medications, etc.
No-transcript political climateis going to be less and less

(21:14):
available.
So that's where my focus is now, as it's a stark turn from
scouring the internet going whocan I fuck with today?
Oh, who can I compare to amelted candle or an unshaved
scrotum or any of the otherawful things?
I used to say that people loved, uh and paid me money to say um
, missed the cash that was, uh,that was actually how me and

(21:35):
kevin met.

Speaker 3 (21:36):
He compared me to an unshaven scrotum and it was a
little weird, but but you know,it's all good, it's watered
under the bridge now.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Then you shaved your head and everybody hated it.

Speaker 4 (21:47):
Did you ever get details on whose unshaven
scrotum that you had?

Speaker 3 (21:50):
That's classified information.
Oh, okay, I showed them at thetime.
Yeah, no, but, like in allseriousness, it's been very
interesting, like seeing theshift.
I guess when I talk about, like, content creation, my brain
goes to YouTube because that'smy main thing.
That wasn't my first thing.
Like I said, instagram was myfirst thing, but eventually I

(22:11):
went to YouTube within a fewmonths and I've been there ever
since and that's my main sourceof income.
That's my job.
I consider myself a YouTuber.
I guess I don't really like themoniker influencer.
I don't think anyone's like Iwant to call myself an
influencer.
I love that term.

Speaker 2 (22:28):
I don't think anyone really loves it, but if you talk
to gen z or gen alpha that theystraight up say I want to be an
influence.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Okay, well then, maybe I'm just be on.
I don't know, he probably has.

Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah, fuck that guy carry on, um, but like it was
interesting because at the time,right when, like I was, I was
coming up cause this was youknow, now it's been a year 15,
16, it was a vlogs, right, thatwas the that was the most
prevalent as far as I wasconcerned fitness content and it
was very like aspirational kindof content where people started

(22:58):
following those who they wantedto emulate and I I even
garnered a following kind ofbased on that.
Right, People saw the cause.
Yeah, I started my channelafter I had pretty much lost all
my weight, because I lost myweight before social media was
what it is now.
I mean, it was around, but youknow I'm 32 now.
I was 20 when I started losingweight, so it's 12 years ago,

(23:19):
right.
Social media just wasn't whatit is now.

Speaker 4 (23:23):
And so when I started my channel, it was like I had a
messenger going hey guys, Ilost 30 pounds today.

Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it took 30 minutes to load the
screen.
Oh yeah, dude, that was theworst man, when you'd like want
to play a game and you'd be onlike nickcom and it'd take 20
minutes and then someone wouldcall and then the screen it was
like no, but that's besides thepoint.
But yeah, so like it was likeaspirational content that I
think people like wanted to kindof emulate, but it wasn't

(23:52):
overly produced content right,it was aspirational, but
aspirational in a sense of likeI'm just gonna like.
This person kind of knows whatthey're talking about.
They have a pretty nicephysique and I I appreciate that
and I so I want to emulate that.
It wasn't.
That person has a 14 milliondollar, you know, home and they
have four cars and like you know, because now if you look at

(24:13):
vlogs, now what does well is,for the most part, is that you
know there's some outliers likeI think of, like sam sulik, I
think is how you say sam sulik,he does old school vlogs.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
I was like that's immediately where my brain went
to.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
It's like, oh, like a sam sulik type yeah, yeah, but
he reminds me of how it was backin the day.
Kind of right, very raw, I getwas a term we would use a lot
that was everybody yeah, andthat's how it was right and so.
But then, like, even for me, I,you know I've shifted my content
quite a bit because I was doinglike vlogs and then I got into
crossfit, I was doing a lot ofcrossfit stuff, um, and then I

(24:46):
started um, as kevin kind ofcame, I was riding that same
wave of being a drama.
I guess you could call it LikeI I would say, like what I do,
I've gone like like, kind oflike this when it comes to that
kind of content.
Like there was a time in mylife when I was just really
sucked into it around 2020, 2021was when one that was the best

(25:09):
my channel ever did, but it was.
It was like like Kevin wassaying, it was like just
searching for people to almostnot make fun of, but almost kind
of make fun of, right, and likeit got to a point where, for me
, I started to really strugglewith it as well.
I ended up you know, I pivotednot as much as Kevin did Like I
was like all right, I'm goingdown this road, I'm just going
to kind of you know what I meanLike just kind of switch over

(25:31):
and like try to do a little bitbetter job of like, always
trying to like with my content.
Now, I don't know how manypeople watch my videos, right,
but I tried to meet the peoplewhere they're at as much as I
can and offer solutions insteadof just you're an idiot, this is
stupid.
Why would you do that?
It's like, hey, just you're anidiot, this is stupid.
Why would you do that?
It's like, hey, I get why you'dfeel that way, but, like, maybe

(25:53):
try this, maybe this would be abetter option.
Right, and I'm not perfect andI'm sure there's people that are
like his videos aren't likethat at all.
He's super hateful.
It is what it is like at thispoint, but I try my best to be
to like, to be as likerespectful with the platform
that I have, because I doappreciate it a lot, um, and so,
yeah, that's kind of where I'mat now.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Do you think the drama is like the same level as
it was when you started?
Is it less?
Is it more?
Is it just different?

Speaker 3 (26:20):
I'd say it's just different, and a big part of
that is because once peoplestart to notice something
working, there's more peoplethat are doing it Right.
And so now there's so manypeople that are making very
similar content that it's justdifferent.
And there are people that aremaking similar content that are
fine with going to 11 and justbeing like saying stuff that for
me I'm like that's crazy thatyou would say that on camera,

(26:43):
you know, and that you would beokay with putting that out there
about another person, but theydon't care, right.
And so people are like well, Iwant to watch that, I want to
watch the extreme version, andso, like I a frequent like
criticism that I get on mychannel is like oh, you're too
nice, you're just too nice, andI'm like I'd rather that than

(27:03):
like what?
How could you say that?
You know what I mean?
Like that's the worst thingI've ever heard, right?
So if people say I'm too nice,that's a criticism I'll take.
You know I get that criticismquite a lot.
Yeah, no, your content is verylike, like very different, but
like it reminds like the waythat you speak about stuff.
It's clear you disagree, butyou're not like hey, you
freaking idiot.

(27:24):
Why would you do this?

Speaker 4 (27:25):
you know it's like well, except for the videos
where he's like hey, youfreaking idiot, I mean there, I
mean there's, there's peoplethat are just all the way.

Speaker 3 (27:31):
Sometimes, we deserve it.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
Yeah, sometimes I don't give a shit Like it's,
let's just have some fun.

Speaker 2 (27:36):
Liam is very measured , he.
He is measured in his response.
He pushes back to an extentthat, uh, I am.
I have never been uncomfortablewith something that he attacks
the idea, not the person.
I think that's really important.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
My goal has always been like take the idea, bring
it to its extreme and havepeople realize how stupid it is.
Oh, they're saying that cannedfood is terrible.
Yes, americans are eating toomany canned vegetables.
That's why we're unhealthy.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
Which brings me back to a reasonable spot.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Yeah, so that people go, oh yeah, no, that is stupid.
Like just to bring it to itsultimate.
That's what, like, comedy isright, you know, especially,
just bring it to its its mostextreme conclusion.
Then we all kind of laugh at it.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
What John does.
That I really have always lovedthat he does better than any
other commentary channel, whichis essentially what he is now.
Yeah, Is he remembers that theperson that he's talking about
is a person he speaks to, whatthey may be thinking, and when
they push back and somebody hassaid something about you, you're
one of the only people I'veever seen go.

(28:36):
You know, I can see how youwould think that or I can see
why you'd feel that way, ormaybe you're right about that.
I don't see people doing that.
He has a conversation.
When I see people like justabsolutely there's a guy named
Mud Pit, Bubba, John Bravo thatare talking about wannabe alpha
males right now, it's thezeitgeist that's going on right

(29:00):
now on YouTube and I can onlystand so much of them because so
much of their criticism ofthese guys who very much deserve
criticism, is to makehomophobic essay jokes,
denigrate women by comparingthese guys' worst flaws to being
like women, stuff like that.
And I'm just like you know whatguys?
You had me, you had a point andyou keep losing me with this
and it's why I can't you know, Ican't support them or recommend

(29:23):
them, because they're, but theywouldn't be getting the views
that they are.
They wouldn't be building theif they weren't doing that,
because there's so many peoplethat that appeals to and there's
so many people that would neversay it themselves, but they are
happy to watch somebody elsesay it and they are happy to
click like and happy to keepthat energy out there, because
while they may have thosefeelings on the inside of them,

(29:44):
they lack the intestinalfortitude to actually express
them and be held accountable forthem.
So there's always going to besomebody willing for money to
step up and say the thing that abunch of terrible people are
thinking about somebody else.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah, I always think about that.
What's the one dude?
That's always just he was onthe middle ground or whatever
we've talked about him before.
He's just like super fat phobic.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
He's like the fresh and fit guys.
He's like we should put fatpeople in like concentration
camps, like that sort of extreme.
Yeah, it's one of those guys,the fresh and fit guys I always
forget his name.

Speaker 1 (30:17):
I get tagged in this video, the videos a lot.
I'm like I don't even know whatto do with this fucking
absolute just trash like it's.
Clearly he's just saying themost extreme things possible.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
Well, to get views, and it does, it gets yeah, and
it's the engagement that he'sactually after, because, right,
if you get the comments, even ifthey're negative comments and
and greg doucette does thisreally well say just enough
inflammatory crap to keep peoplecontinue to talk about you and
you'll continue to profit.
It doesn't matter if peoplehate you, because the the
platforms, regardless of whichplatform you're on, they don't

(30:52):
care if you're happy on theplatform, they just want you on
the platform.
Right, and rage works better.
That's rage baiting isextremely effective, which is
why I came to the conclusion, Iguess right around 2021.
Um, it's amazing, you know,close calls with mortality, the
perspective it gives you.

(31:12):
I I came to the realizationthat I I would rather inform,
educate and support 10 000people, yeah, and squeak by then
entertain 100 000 and and andbe rich.
Uh, so like, do I miss?
Miss the former size of theAdSense checks?
Yes, sort of.

(31:34):
Do I sleep a hell of a lotbetter and have absolutely no
regrets about the things that Iget to say now yes, and that's a
lot better bringed up.

Speaker 1 (31:45):
You brought up greg doucette.
Uh, like I remember, like whenyou know, if you go back to his
first videos, he didn't evenlike talk like he does now, for
anybody listening hasn't heardgreg doucette.
He talks like the parrot fromaladdin and like that's a voice
that he does and he did it likea couple times and he's talked
about this before where he'slike people thought it was funny
.
So I do it all the time now anda lot of people hate it to

(32:08):
fucking bits because it's alittle annoying, but like it
doesn't matter.
So like you know that sort ofstuff, I'm like you know you
gotta do what you gotta do toget views.
but then you can you can easilybring it too far and then go
towards the like inflammatorystatements and stuff.
So, like you know, in mycontent I'll do a lot of like

(32:29):
weird and wacky shit to like tryand just get that engagement
going a little bit more.
But, like, as long as I'mdirecting the comedy at myself
and not, you know, going afteranybody else, I'm like, ah, it's
fine, right?

Speaker 2 (32:41):
Right.
As long as you're pointing atit like a concept or yourself,
it's fine.
As long as you're neverpunching down, it's fine.

Speaker 1 (32:51):
Unless it's V Sh's, unless it's v shreds, in which
case there are certain people wecould punch a little bit and
still sleep well at night.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
Sleep so good kevin, was there, like ever, a like, a
click moment?
Was there like a, a momentwhere you like, where you like,
remember being like I think Idon't want to do this anymore or
was it just kind of like, overtime, it just slowly, like you,
just got more and moreuncomfortable?

Speaker 2 (33:15):
There was a specific click moment that I remember,
and that was there was.
There was two.
The one that made me startthinking about it was when I
there wasn't anything thatanybody was talking about that
week.
That was this big thing that Icould, you know, pigtail on or
dog pile on top of, and I foundmyself looking for something to

(33:39):
bitch about, uh, like justtrying to find something to dig
up, and I was like, why am Idoing that?
That's not what this issupposed to be about.
I was supposed to be aboutcleaning up the bovine fecal
matter in the fitness industrythe bull fit, if you will.
Like that's what I was supposedto be doing.
I was like I'm not being real,I'm not being authentic, and it
bugged me for a couple of days.
Then I made a video off ofsomething that I found while I
was looking for it, and I'm notentirely sure what the video was

(33:59):
, but it was somethinginconsequential that could have
been just like a reasonableconversation, and I don't
remember, because I took allthose videos where I was
attacking people that performedwell, and I demonetized them,
left them up for a year and ahalf and then I have taken them
and I've, uh, unlisted them.
Um, so somebody could still seeif they want to hold me
accountable.
But like I don't want to be, Ihaven't profited from a single
view on a single one of thosevideos in like four years.

(34:21):
Then I made a video and after Iposted the video I had a habit
of posting them at night andthen waking up in the morning.
I dreaded looking at my commentsection.
Like that was the feeling I hadinside.
It was like I didn't want tosee the comments and it wasn't.
I wasn't like because I'venever been afraid of
confrontation I'm a retiredMarine like I'm not worried

(34:41):
about verbal sparring I'll crushyou, I will tongue lash you.
I'm not worried about physical,uh repercussions.
The threats that people make Ifind laugh.
I was worried I was going tofind a bunch of people who were
dogpiling on the person that Ihad just talked shit about and
every person who said somethingawful.
I was responsible for that andit just left this like feeling

(35:04):
of sewage in my stomach.
That makes sense I was like Idon't ever want to feel like
that again, and it was at thatpoint that I stopped making that
kind of content.

Speaker 3 (35:10):
Yeah, makes sense.
I definitely that's stillsomething that I still like
struggle with, you know, because, no matter how much I try to be
as open and honest andunderstanding, you know there
are people that are watching thevideo that I obviously I don't.
I don't know exactly whatthey're going through, I don't
know what they're going to pickup on what I'm saying, and you

(35:32):
know, I see comments that I'mjust like man, like that makes
me sad that that's what you gotout of the video.
You know, that's the thing thatyou care about here.
That's the only thing thatmatters.
Right?
Yeah, I get it.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
I think some people, though, will always look for
that, and it doesn't matter what, like that's, that's what they,
that's the little bit ofpleasure they get out of life is
trying to bring other peopledown to an extent.

Speaker 4 (35:55):
so, like what I don't know, there's not really much
you do about that yeah just likethe weird people that go around
trolling jackbox games ontwitch.
I'm unfortunately unfamiliar.
That's okay, jackbox is.
I may as well describe for theaudience if they don't know,
jackbox is this game?
It's just a party game, likeCards Against Humanity type
things.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
And you can play that online with people.

Speaker 4 (36:20):
And lots of people stream that and there's like
these kids that will just goaround and they will join in
your Jackbox if you're streamingand they will start putting in
like disrespectful racistprompts, stuff like that it's
chaos man is unfortunate.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, back in the good old days we used to just
take baseball bats to mailboxesand now throw rocks at windows
good old-fashioned vandalism.

Speaker 3 (36:43):
Yeah, it's gone now I miss the good old days I'm
curious right renting a bunch ofwell, no, no, you go, you go.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
I was just gonna say renting a bunch of mailbox
costumes, putting them overpeople's heads and then hitting
them with baseball bats.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
That sounds painful, but, like I know, like me, and
obviously me and Kevin have beentalking a ton about like what
got us into, like, but whatabout you guys?
Right, like what made you wantto make the kind of content that
you guys make?

Speaker 1 (37:08):
see, that's, john, what thinking of others like a
loser.

Speaker 3 (37:13):
Well, I'm just, I mean, I'm just I'm genuinely
curious though, because I likeit's so interesting to me as
someone that's been doing it forlike again, I mean I don't want
to sound broken record, butwhen I started I wasn't thinking
I'm going to make content, youknow, and then like was that?
And I think was that, like Ifeel like there's a missing link
here and I want to fill it, orwas it more just kind of

(37:35):
happening.
You know, I just I don't know,it's just it's interesting to me
because I'm freaking old, likeyou guys said, I've been doing
this for forever and so I'malways curious, like someone
that's been like a newer into it.
What got you into it, right?

Speaker 4 (37:47):
I like how he says he's freaking old.
He's the youngest one here, Iknow but it's like like a year
younger than me.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Yeah, you've been doing a lot longer than I have.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
That's yeah, I've only I mean what like a couple,
two, three years.
Wow, you've done great, yeah,in two, three years.
It's fucking, it's wild look atthis for those listening, I'm
my my silver play button fromYouTube.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
I have the old one.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
He's got the original one.
They used to make them out ofsilver.

Speaker 3 (38:15):
I got that one in, like 2017,.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
I think I can't really see it from here.
It looks like it's made out ofwood.

Speaker 3 (38:20):
Yeah, I mean, it's like, it's definitely looks.
They look very different now.

Speaker 1 (38:25):
Well, I thought that was super cool.
I've only been posting toYouTube for like three months,
so like that's.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
that's great Cause I've been doing it for six years
.
Well, I haven't really beenvery consistent and I'm stuck at
like 70,000 subscribers.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
It's all shorts now.
Like you know, the shorts arereally what did it like the long
form?
Still like working on that, butany who?
Um, yeah, no, I always, justlike I always had like a bunch
of ideas for skits in my headfor like dumb shit.
I don't like that's where Istarted, like I always said I
loved the.
I grew up watching like mad TV,like that sort of shit.

(38:59):
Okay, so I always loved thoselike kind of skit comedy sort of
things.
So I was like man, I just wantlike an outlet for this.
I don't know I wasn't thinkingabout like I'm be a famous
influencer.
I was like I just want a placeto make that and for a couple
people to go.
That's funny and that's reallyall I wanted.
Uh, so I started making a bunchof skits around, mostly fitness
, just like dumb gym stuff, andthen occasionally like nutrition

(39:22):
stuff and like it did fine,like it did okay.
Some people thought it was funny.
And then it started and thenslowly started shifting just
into more like nutrition.
I was like, oh, people reallyneed help, let me do this.
And then over time people werelike, oh, what about this?
They're asking questions,what's this, what's that?
And that's kind of.
When I saw all the debunkingstuff and people were like man,

(39:42):
what I'm so concerned about?
Eating bread because it's fine,so that's and that's.
That's just kind of slowly justdeveloped from that.
I miss mad TV.
Yeah, that's my, that's my teamI've been.

Speaker 2 (39:55):
I've been thinking about Stuart ever since you said
that.

Speaker 1 (39:58):
It's so good.
Look what I can do Dude myfamily loves.

Speaker 4 (40:02):
Stuart man, oh my.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
God, you Americans, bobby.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
Lee man, bobby Lee, yeah, kids in the hall.

Speaker 4 (40:09):
Yeah, I was going to call out kids in the hall, but I
didn't know if anybody elsewould recognize it so good, what
about?
you, rob.
Well, I ended up posting justas an experiment of pushing my
boundaries in my social anxietydisorder and that's literally
all it was, was just okay.

(40:30):
I don't know what content topost.
You know what I've been gettinginto fitness lately.
Let's just post some sort offitness thing, see if I can
actually hit the button to postwithout having a heart attack
and for whatever reason it hit.
So people liked it and Istarted posting regularly until

(40:51):
it started really taking offfast and then that's when the
anxiety kicked in and Idisappeared for a year.
Yeah, I started out posting morein regards to weightlifting and
exercising, but the more I postabout that, the more I guess
more.
The more social media Iactually looked at, the more I

(41:15):
saw just everybody and theirmother was posting workout
videos and what it came down tois like the same exercises just
in different, different orders,and and everybody's saying oh,
this is the optimal exercise, oh, this, you have to do this to
be optimal.
And I, I, just I was like look,if you need exercise content,

(41:38):
literally just search exerciseand you will get five million
videos that are perfectly good.
Pick one, do it.
And then I.
But then I started getting umasked more about the nutrition
stuff and that I felt was a lotmore interesting to talk about
due to, like, just how manypeople are pushing the wrong

(42:00):
thing entirely.
It's hard to push the wrongthing in exercise.
It's like okay, yeah, just dosomething you love, do something
you love yeah.
Move your body.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
Right, you guys want to get together and make a
cookbook.

Speaker 4 (42:15):
Yes.

Speaker 3 (42:16):
I don't know if you want my help on that.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
I'm on that page with John.
I like I people feel like I'llcook.
I'm like man, I fucking likeput beans and rice together and
I put like corn on a microwavepotato and I'm like, oh, food
like I don't sustenance.

Speaker 2 (42:34):
That's exactly the unhinged kind of shit that I'm
thinking about.

Speaker 1 (42:37):
Maybe we go that route like I'll go all in, be
like listen, I take this micro,I take this pack of ramen and
here's what I do.

Speaker 3 (42:45):
I, I, I think that I mean, that could be actually
very interesting.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, relate with that, because it's not okay.
I need to go buy all this freshfood.
I need to meal prep it this way, just like one of the weird
things that I do is I takesteamable vegetables, I will
steam them in the bag.
I will pour the entire bag allthree to four servings into a
bowl, put a little bit ofParmesan cheese and Italian

(43:09):
dressing on it Light Italiandressing and then I will eat
that straight.
And people are like oh, cool,food hack.
You're getting 10 to 12,sometimes 16, depending on the
veggies grams of protein.
It's high in fiber.
It's a quick snack that'll fillyou up and it's calorically.
It's like 200, almost alwaysless than 200 calories, and for

(43:30):
me that's like spitting in thebucket of my daily intake and
you're sitting there like that'snot a food hack, that's just me
being lazy.

Speaker 4 (43:36):
I've lost rob again.
Am I the only one?

Speaker 1 (43:38):
no, we just guess what rob says.
It's fine, he's going yeah justtake okay, just take an
educated guess on one of those.

Speaker 2 (43:45):
You'll probably be right, it's fine so so we're not
looking directly at the problem.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
I won't make eye contact with it, it's just
interesting because it's usuallylike right, when you start
talking, it'll stop, and then,if you talk for a while, it's
fine, but like right, when youstart, it's like nah, nah, this
guy can't talk that's amazing,just like when I go to edit this
, my end will be perfectly fine,yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (44:07):
And all the listeners will be like, hey, we heard,
I'm fine you guys are just yeah,that's why I don't say anything
.

Speaker 1 (44:12):
I just sit here and then I guess, and I'm yeah right
, it's fine, that's what's coolabout this, this program?

Speaker 3 (44:17):
because, yeah, it's all like it records your video
and then it.
So it's not.
Yeah, I'm gonna have toactually listen.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
The cookbook, though, seriously like, I think, just
like this, is how, like you know, you microwave a potato.
This is how, like you know, youmicrowave a potato.
This is how, like, you takethese processed foods that
people would usually scoff at,and then here's how you eat them
and make them maybe slightlymore nutritious or whatever.
That's the type of cookbook Iwould do.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
I have never done a day in the eating or a day of
eating or whatever it is thoseare called.

Speaker 3 (44:50):
Clearly you haven't.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
It is fucking unhinged, yeah I guess that's
why you should do it though.
Yeah, that's why like, like.
Why are you what the dog foodand you're like, it's high in
protein I have a meal I makecalled dog food, and it's
literally dog food.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
It looks like dog food.
It looks like dog food in abowl, but it is delicious and
it's high in protein and it'shigh in micronutrients.
No but this I mean.

Speaker 3 (45:16):
This conversation, though, is important, and this
is like something that I I endup like having to talk to with
my clients a lot.
Right, is that you?
One of my favorite things Ididn't make this up, but I use
it all the time, so I might aswell have just stolen it and
made it my own anyways is don'tlet perfect get in the way of
good enough.
Right, and, like so many people, feel like they, their diet has
to be perfect.
Like, oh, I should.

(45:37):
I don't know if I should eatthis or like potatoes I heard
potatoes are terrible and I'mlike, dude, like they're your
diet.
Like if you saw what I eatevery day and the reason I was
like I don't know about doing arecipe thing, because I
literally almost eat the samething every day Almost right,
unless Amanda cooks, which isgreat and she makes great meals.

(45:57):
Right, but for the most part,if I were like up until a few
months ago, when I didn't livewith her, I pretty much ate
protein, oatmeal, some sort ofsandwich or a salad for lunch,
stir fry at night, and thenmaybe a snack snack.
That was pretty much everysingle day.
Right, and like I always say,you don't have to do that.
I understand I have some stuffprobably going on that makes it,

(46:17):
so I do that right.
I don't expect that.
But it's like if you findsomething that works and it's
simple and you enjoy it, youdon't have to like, you don't
have to be some five-star chef.
I think so many people think,oh, I want to lose weight but
I'm not good at cooking, thatyou don't have to be.
You really don't have to begood at cooking.
Like, if you want to improveyour cooking, great, but you
don't have to be at all rightand like anything it shows with

(46:40):
you know, everyone's meals thatthey're making right.
It's like it's don't letperfect in the way of good
enough.
It's like something that I talkabout a lot.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
I actually made that up.
Oh, okay, yeah, and you stoleit from me.
Okay.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
I'll pay you royalties.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (46:55):
No, but useful stuff, and I think that that is what
we need more of.
We are moving away from theOptiBros and stuff like that.
We're understanding that wehyper-focused too much as a
community on specific variations, etc.
Too much as a community onspecific variations, et cetera.
When you start obsessing aboutwell, the lat pull down doesn't
bias the latissimus dorsi, itactually biases.

(47:18):
Shut the fuck up.
People have been using this tobuild their lats for longer than
you've been alive.
It works for the lats, and thatwas actually a video from a guy
that I have now met and have agreat deal of respect for, and
he's cooled it off JPG Coaching.
He's a great dude, but he wascaught up in the optimization,
bro.
Now it's DNF and all of thesepeople have their preference,

(47:38):
but they state it as objective,inherently superior, and I think
what we need more of is, likejust the attitude.
Guys, everything works a littlebit Like the more specific it
is to what you're trying to do,the better it works, but all
this stuff works you know whatdoesn't work?

Speaker 1 (47:56):
nothing.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Yeah, don't do that um, or you know, v shreds.
Five secret foods that'll turnyou into a fat burning machine.

Speaker 1 (48:04):
Yeah, oh, beringa powder.
Wait, what's that?
Did harvard do a study on it?

Speaker 3 (48:09):
I'm super excited oh my god, dude, that stuff like
the harvard, harvard scientistand like just think objectively,
what does that even mean?
Like does that even meananything?
No, what?
Is that it's cool like whatdoes a harvard scientist have to
do about nutrition?
Nothing like they're not smart.
They smart people go harvardbut that's the that's.

(48:30):
That's the problem, though, man.
It's like that it it does likefor some people.
They're smart, they smartpeople go harvard.
But that's the.
That's.
That's the problem, though, man.
It's like that it it does likefor some people.
They're like oh no, it's adoctor.
It's like a doctor in what,though?

Speaker 2 (48:38):
right, oh, they're a chiropractor and what did the
study actually say?
Yeah, like they'll just say,doctors found that beetroot
powder makes your dick big.
Okay, so I mean, if you takeenough of it, that will cause
some swelling, and that's asclose to the truth as it
actually is.
Yeah, by over circulating tothe area you're gonna get

(48:59):
swollen, not I could, I say Ilove super beats.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Super beats is like you know, they make beet powder
and the claims and thecommercials kind of feel like.
Snl parodies of something Likeit's as powerful as eating eight
beets.
I'm just like I love this.
This is great.

Speaker 2 (49:16):
We have a chiropractor in town, since John
brought them up, who on hiswebsite claims through
chiropractic to be able to curesubstance abuse and depression,
and I think that is soirresponsible.
In writing.

Speaker 3 (49:31):
Yeah, dude.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Yeah, there's probably some laws against that,
but like, who's going to reallycheck these days?

Speaker 2 (49:36):
He'll probably just claim that chiropractors is his
religion.
Oh my God.

Speaker 3 (49:42):
Because he's healing with faith.
The chiropractor stuff isinteresting because I feel like
I mean, I I'm not supercomfortable, like I've never
this is weird.
I've never, like, reallydeliberately gone to a
chiropractor the only time Iever did see it Accidentally.
Yeah, well, kind of so I was ohshit, where am I?

Speaker 1 (49:59):
No, no, this isn't the Twizzler store.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
Dude.
Well, because I'm notconfrontational.
Okay, I'm not right, and I wasin the wrong office.

Speaker 2 (50:08):
I got it.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
Dude.
Basically I'm saying listen,listen, all right, I have a
story.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
No, we're not listening, we're going to make
up the story and you're going totell us if it's right or wrong.
But this was when.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
I was.
I was sponsored.
I guess I won't say the name ofthe supplement company because
that's kind of rude but I wassponsored by a specific time and
they had flown me out to theirheadquarters to, like you know,
do content whatever.
And I was also running it.
I was doing a triathlon, thatwas in the area, so we were
making content about it, allright.
And I go into one of the, totheir gym, and every week they

(50:43):
have a chiropractor there and Iwas like I really don't want to.
But everyone was like oh, he'shere, yeah, the chiropractor.
Like we are so excited, likeeveryone loved him.
And I was like they're like youhave to try.
And I don't want to be like no,I will not.
So I was like okay, but I toldhim I was like I don't want
anything with my neck, nothingwith my neck, please.

(51:06):
Like like I just am notcomfortable.
And he was like, okay, noproblem.
And then you know he's doing thething whatever, just kind of
like work on my body.
And then he gets to my head andhe was like are you sure you
don't?
Like I really think you couldhelp with blah, because you know
he was like asking me questionslike yeah, you know I have some
blah, blah, blah, whatever, andI was just like again, I don't
want to be like no, I said no.
So I was just like, okay, andhe did the thing.

(51:28):
But I just remember I was justlike, and then he was like how
do you feel?
I was like, yeah, I feel prettygood and they're like, dude,
you're going to feel so muchbetter.
And then I wake up the next dayI'm like I feel normal, like I
think so much of it is placeboto an extent, but it's like you
want cause, you want to feelbetter, right, you want to
believe that there was somethingthat happened For me.

(51:53):
It was just like it was nice,you know, but like I've also had
massages that were nice, youknow what I mean.

Speaker 2 (52:00):
So acknowledging that chiropractic, by what evidence
is available, is largelyanalgesic, meaning you can
experience temporary relief ofpain.
I think if they just did that,they wouldn't have such a bad
reputation for being quacks.
Yeah, just did that, theywouldn't have such a bad
reputation for being quacks.

(52:20):
But claiming to be able tocorrect posture through
alignment is.
There's very little supportivedata.
There's even less that suggeststhat, unless you go to the
extremes, that variations ordeviations in standard posture
have a significant effect onyour life, outside of really
sticking your head forward andthe weight that that puts on
your lumbar spine over time.

(52:41):
But an adjustment's not goingto fix that.
Sitting with proper posture,you know, supporting your spine,
building the musculature uparound it, those are the things
that are going to fix it.
None of that happens in achiropractic office.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
We had a couple of chiropractors on before and they
were like actually good oneswho were talking about, yeah, we
try and relieve some pain andthen the steps they take after
that is what actually helps themin the long term.

Speaker 2 (53:04):
I respect those folks .
There's one locally that I gosee because I have five
herniated discs and the onlything that makes me feel better
is when a very large Samoan manturns me into a pretzel.
That's it right.
I'll get relief for a day ortwo, but then it's right back to
pain management, and this hasbeen going on for 14 years, so I

(53:26):
know it's not going to justsuddenly get better because
somebody popped my neck andthose whack jobs that are
wrapping towels around people'snecks and then just yanking as
hard as they can.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
Or like claiming they can like cure and you said
depression, but like cure cancerand cure like it's, like it's
just crazy man and I.
It makes you feel bad for thepeople that are like dude, I am
a chiropractor.
I've even seen somechiropractors that like they
have a doctorate but they'relike I don't call myself a
doctor because they're like Isee a massive difference between
what, like the training I hadversus what someone else has

(53:59):
done and then you got dr berg,then you got dr berg, of course,
oh, I love that guy I need todo, I I use.

Speaker 1 (54:06):
I have a series that I gotta get back to rate the
grifter that I.
That sounds like a great seriesdr berg has been like kind of
on my thinking.
On the next one I'm kind ofthinking about like how to bring
up like the scientology thing,like I kind of want to son come
out.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
What against him, or something like that did what
happened, dr berg, didn't hisson come out against?

Speaker 1 (54:27):
him.

Speaker 3 (54:27):
Yeah, no, his son is like he's a whack job, yeah yeah
, dude, I saw a couple tiktoksfrom him and I was like whoa,
this is crazy.

Speaker 1 (54:33):
Yeah, yeah, no, it's, it's a whole thing.
And then like he's got likescience, he's, he's, he's um, a
scientologist and I'm like Iwant to deduct points from him
but he never talks about that.
He does a very good job keepingthat on the down low.
So, like very smart on his part.
So maybe not, he does very well.
Oh, I love his.
He does the best when he's likewhat would happen if you took
turmeric every day?
And then he lists all theseamazing things like it'll clear

(54:55):
the pollution from your body andlike all this bullshit, right.
And then like of course, hesells turmeric like capsules for
like 30 bucks or whatever it is, and I'm like those that I love
that.
That's as a grifter, fucking 10out of 10, right there.

Speaker 2 (55:08):
Today's problem that I just invented and the solution
I came up with the cost of howmuch money.

Speaker 1 (55:14):
do you have Exactly People like he sells so many
supplements and like I've hadpeople dm me like, hey, my dad
or my relative or whoever buyshis supplements, look at this
and it's just a fuckingcountertop of just every
supplement thousands of dollars,and I'm just like staring at it
in disbelief that's theterrifying thing to me is that,

(55:34):
even when that there is like anefficacious dose that you can
take to have a statisticallyrelevant effect, that effect is
almost always less than 1%.

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Yeah, um it 1% in changing or affecting or
redirecting your life.
Tmg, for instance.
I've been taking TMG because ithelps with energy production,
but it can also there's a coupleof studies out it can also
positively affect yourtestosterone.
I have been dealing withchronically low testosterone

(56:05):
since a bad groin injury back in2020 or 2021.
I had a inguinal hernia thatwas four inches.
My intestines would spill outunder my skin and it would look
like a human brain was just likesitting on top of my hip.
It was, yeah, you know to thisday, that's metal.
I regret not taking pictures.
Yeah, I regret, because I'vetalked about it and I haven't

(56:28):
been able to show anybody.
It's gross as hell and there'scertain things I'd have to blur
out because of how, where it'slocated no, no, no, that's not
my intestine.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
That's the only like legit surgery I ever had was
hernia.
I had a hernia when I was likefive, yeah, and it was like
right in that area yeah, theinguinal.

Speaker 2 (56:44):
Yeah, way down, way down there.
Um, holy crap, I'm sorry, I sawmy wife in my brain.
What was I talking about?

Speaker 4 (56:51):
the testosterone.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
so there is a measurable effect that tmG can
have on your testosterone levels.
It's about 7%.
Okay, well, 7% of 300 is like27.
An increase of 27 points onyour testosterone isn't going to
do anything.
So these people like TomDeLauer who are talking about it

(57:13):
, can have major effects on yourtestosterone.

Speaker 1 (57:16):
I got really into Tom DeLauer when I started like
looking into nutrition, like Iwas like Bobby and like Tom
DeLauer and it was just like Ihad a bunch of different
supplements.
I was taking specific aminoacids together at the right
moment, like at specific times,and like trying to like optimize
.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
He's one of the people I made drama content
about.
Oh, I skewered him, but he'slargely changed his ways.
He still does say some, justabsolutely vastly
over-exaggerated, and he's muchmore excited about things like
TMG and NAD+ and NMN than heshould be.
They do have an effect.
I take 1,000 milligrams to1,500 milligrams of NMN and TMG

(57:56):
but that's because I get energyand I get endurance out of it.
I am not looking at my hormoneprofile and saying this has a
statistically necessary or not.
Statistically.
This has a statisticallyrelevant difference but it does
not have an impact and we spendso much money on shit that makes
such a small difference in ourhealth and, like, everything

(58:17):
costs time, your lifespan, moneyor aggravation.
So if you're like doubledipping, you know it costs you
time and money, like if it'scosting you all this money, then
you don't have time to do thethings that would make you much
more healthy, like cleaning upyour sleep hygiene.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Yeah, it's a sleep.

Speaker 2 (58:36):
I was just about to say, yeah, I had a glass of
water with dinner.
Is it as fun as fucking uh rootbeer?
I would love a barks right now,but I'm a little dehydrated so
I needed water, like I just, andthat's that.
That crap is largely free.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Sleep hygiene, yep you will fix boring as you know
it's not exciting.

Speaker 3 (58:56):
It's not like you make a video.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
You want to make a video about a new supplement,
that harvard had a new study.
That's what you want.

Speaker 3 (59:03):
That's the exciting part see harvard's old news man.
I like to hear about what mitis talking about now mrt is
still socially awkward.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
They don't talk to.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
I want to know what university of phoenix is up to.
That's what's really on therise.
What is my local community?
College talking about all right, that's what I need that we
should make like just parodyvideos where we just like say
obscure fucking like collegesand like just the ridiculous
things they claim you know what?

Speaker 2 (59:31):
that's what we need to do in the unhinged cookbook
or, uh, the imperfect cookbook,I think some to that effect.
We should just like have random, obviously satirical quotes
about the efficacy of a specificmeal from the most.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
Yeah, we need to mention, like you know rats and
you know and you know metabolismand just a bunch of buzzwords,
and just throw it in there untilit makes no sense.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Yeah, dude.
Study conducted by EastRutherford Community College.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
Yeah, or, like you know, eating three packets of
ramen a day increases yourtestosterone.
And this is coming from youknow O'Doul's, you know College
of the Blind or something likethat.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
It's just like College for professional mimes
and the blind, the University of.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Maine finds inserting one sprig of asparagus in
either end.

Speaker 2 (01:00:23):
I live right next to you, you dick.
There's at least three or foursmart people there.
Yeah, none of them are staff,though.

Speaker 3 (01:00:31):
And it is what it is.
That's great.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Well, I was just going to say that, say that like
I want, especially before we go.
I wanted because you guys havebeen doing this at least for a
little while.
Like what do you think is likeone positive change that, uh,
social media has gone over.
And then like one negativechange.
And one thing it's like, oh,this is actually maybe a little
bit better than you know it usedto be, we've learned this, or
whatever.

Speaker 3 (01:00:52):
And then one thing you're like ah, shit, we fucked
up there I think for me, theanswer is relatively easy and
it's it's the same answer forboth is just the the access to
knowledge and information, Ithink is good because you know
like you could find out whateveryou want.
But the issue with that is thatthere are basically what we've
been talking about this wholetime, right is, there are people

(01:01:15):
that know that that's the caseand they use it against other
people, right, so theyintentionally make things more
difficult and they likeovercomplicate stuff and they
they focus on big words thatmight be confusing to to get
people's attention and usuallymoney.
Right, I'd say that that's.
Those are like it's.
The access is great, but it'salso bad.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
That is a really good one, and you stole my gimmick
of the answer being both,because I was originally going
to say the anti-bullying sort offunctionality of algorithms and
software that they use to likeI.
Only every once in a while I'lllook at my filtered comments
and I'm like, oh wow, there'ssome just terrible people out

(01:01:59):
there.
I don't even see them, thatnobody in the community ends up
seeing them.
For a while I was just like Ihave the most positive community
out there.
It's just amazing I never see acrappy comment.
And then I clicked the filteredcomments.

Speaker 3 (01:02:11):
I was like oh yes, I do, oh, there's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
John, see, they filter your comments because
you're constantly sexuallyharassing me.
You've resorted to DMing me thenasty things, but I will say
that the negative thing there isthat it took people exactly two
weeks to figure out how toabuse those and through things
like mass reporting, they willshut down legitimate sources of
information that they justhappen to disagree with.

(01:02:38):
So I think there needs to besome calibration there on how
those things function.
There's not enough human beingswho are reviewing the decisions
made by an algorithm, andthat's done in the pursuit of
profit.
But when somebody has yourentire chat it's never happened
to me, but I've seen it happento people has their entire
channel taken away because agroup of really just terrible
people disagree with the messageof empathy or compassion, uh,

(01:03:01):
and they don't like yourpolitical views.
I've watched people have theirentire platform taken away
because they were mass reportedand you can't appeal that to a
human like I think that's afailing.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Um, yeah, that's fair .
That's very, very fair.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
But the thing I love to see, I would say, is the
production value and how easy itis to make really high-quality
looking content, if you want to,is so much easier than ever.
I don't think anybody realizesthat every single one of my
videos, no matter what level ofproduction value there has been,
has been filmed on my phone,edited on my phone and published

(01:03:38):
from my phone.
I have never had a camera.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
Imagine with AI like the future of that, like how
it's going to advance rapidly.
We're going to see that, butjust on steroids.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
Apropos to the conversation.

Speaker 4 (01:03:50):
Well done sir, well done, we've gone full circle.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
Anything else that you guys got, anything you want
to talk about, I mean I canalways find stuff to talk about
brother getting me to shut up isa problem.
Yeah, basically.
Yeah, I mean there's there's.
The issue is I have a lot ofthoughts, but I also understand
that a lot of them are very halfbaked, so I try not to share
them too much.

Speaker 2 (01:04:17):
So I I have things that I feel that I don't say I'm
gonna, I'm going to attack mydear friend john oh no, um,
because a lot of what holds himback is the fear of how it's
going to be received, and he has.
He's just shy of getting to thepoint in his personal
development where he accepts anappropriate amount of

(01:04:39):
responsibility for what he saysand how it's received, because
it is felt, encoded, transmitted, received, decoded and felt,
and you are only responsible forthree of those things.
He is so careful in the waythat he portrays a message
because not because he's afraidin my opinion, I'm not you, not
because you're so afraid thatsomeone will disagree with you

(01:04:59):
or there will be a discussion orargument about it, because you
have a genuine care that youdon't want someone to feel bad
for something that you have said.
And I'm a little different in aand I feel that it's not okay
to bully or hurt people'sfeelings for the sake of doing
so.
But if a little bit ofdiscomfort is the key that
unlocks the door to theirdevelopment, then it's okay.

(01:05:23):
I am very comfortable sayingthings that make people feel
uncomfortable, like calling outJohn's inner turmoil on a
podcast that could be viewed bythousands or tens of thousands
of people.
He's a genuinely kind humanbeing that has a lot of
experience with shedding a lotof weight and keeping it off
successfully for a decade and Iwould heartily.
He's one of three or fourpeople that I would 100% say to

(01:05:46):
anyone.
I recommend this human being,so I've got a lot of respect for
him.
And John, as young as he is, isactually one of the reasons
that I decided to pull thetrigger on making content.
Of the reasons that I decidedto pull the trigger on making
content, um, I was like man, if,if this cherub face kid can put
himself out there now.

Speaker 3 (01:06:03):
I have a mustache, so you can't see yeah, it's so
thick man it's thick, I did notsee it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
What do you mean?
You?
Probably couldn't you mean youcouldn't see me behind it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
I thought it was pen I don't know what you guys are
talking about and I'm not evencrying right now, it's just hot
in here and I'm sweating from myeyes.

Speaker 2 (01:06:21):
Yeah, you have.
You've been walking on that padfor about an hour.

Speaker 3 (01:06:24):
Yeah no, but like I I mean I don't even know how to
respond to that.
I appreciate it.
I'm sure that there's quite abit of truth in it, but I also
like part of like what I wasmentioning is just like there's
there's things that I haveopinions on that I know I don't
know enough about to saysomething that is worth
listening to other than just guyyells at cloud.

(01:06:46):
You know what I mean.
Like just like the other stuffthat's going on, right, because
I'm in the US, right, and likeeverything that's going on with
that, with the Department ofhealth and how that's being ran,
like I have opinions, but Ialso know that I I just don't
have enough information to whereI could really feel like I'm
saying much other than justcomplaining.

(01:07:07):
You know what I'm saying.
So like that's kind of what Iwas like referencing with that,
because I was just like, rightbefore we started recording, I
was having a conversation withAmanda, my girlfriend, and
talking about some of the stuffthat's going on and it's just
like it's like the wild westright now and it's crazy, it's
wild it is and it's.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
It's really disconcerting.
We talked about it, I think, atthe beginning.
I don't know if we were umofficially on air or how this
works, uh, but we're entering aphase where we're going to have
less access to the things thatwe have become dependent upon to
make us healthy in anincreasingly sedentary lifestyle
.
We're going to have to put itwe're going to.
Nobody's going to save us.

(01:07:46):
We're going to have to put thateffort on ourselves to become a
little more active, not becausewe need to reach some aesthetic
ideal, but because activityhelps your heart, it helps your
bone mass, it helps you becomemore resilient to um.
Activity helps your heart, ithelps your bone mass, it helps
you become more resilient todisease and to sickness and to
surviving those things that youcan't avoid.

(01:08:06):
We can mitigate so manycircumstances, if not eliminate
even some of them, just throughbeing a little bit more mindful
about our health and taking careof ourselves.
We're going to have to takemore preventative action.
It's going to be necessary andit's going to be a very
difficult, hard adjustment for alot of people who have oh
Zympic, hey sweet.

(01:08:27):
Now we've literally got a thingI can take to help me lose
weight, and while that mighthave been mildly controversial,
it's not even going to be anoption for most people as we
continue to aggressivelydecentralize health care, push
towards privatizing it.
I believe that health care is aright.
I think in any civilizedsociety you are adequately

(01:08:48):
judged by how you deal with yoursick, your poor and your
elderly and those on the fringe.
And, as one of the mostresource-dense nations on the
planet, we could fix it rightnow, but we're headed in the
opposite direction.
And that scares the shit out ofme.
For my family I just got my momand dad back on the right track

(01:09:11):
, but they're very old and theywere very unhealthy for a very
long time, so they're stilldependent on some medications
just to get to like a placewhere they can conduct a normal,
independent life.
Take that away.
I'll be very upset.

Speaker 1 (01:09:26):
Yeah, what I will say .
I just want to recommendsomeone.
If you're like people who likewant to keep up with all of that
, I cannot recommend Dr Jess.
Enough Jessica, and I'm goingto butch, I don't know.
Her last name is Nurick.
It's K-N-U-R-I-C-K.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
I am already following Dr Nurick she's
amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:09:45):
She's really giving a lot of information of what
they're doing, what they'retrying to do and all of that.
So I would recommend her TikTokInstagram, all that stuff.
She's great for all that.
She strikes me as very informed.
I mean, she's a PhD innutrition, a dietician.
Normally people with that sortof stuff kind of have some idea

(01:10:08):
of things and, you know, peoplewho have no education in
nutrition probably shouldn't berunning things.
But like, hey, that's just myweird take, excuse me.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
If you do your own research, you know more than
those university elites thathave been brainwashed.
Oh exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Oh, fucking, I did a video, just recorded it today,
like you were talking about,like I was saying, like I like
to bring the humor into it, andthere's like a guy just spouting
about pure protein or premierprotein, the drinks, and how
they're terrible for you becausethey're filled with ingredients
, and he commented yeah, it's soit's very funny.
He literally didn't say a singlegreen.
He's like all this bad stuff.

(01:10:42):
And in the comments he put youknow, um, if you don't believe
me, believe me, do your ownreservations.
And he just misspelled research.
And I was like you know, I tookhim two-top for my wife and I
at our local Indian place.
I'll let you know how it goes.
It's a great place.
It's just like you have to justlaugh at that stupid shit
because what else do you do?

Speaker 2 (01:11:03):
I do my own reservations I make sure I have
plenty of reservations.
You sound stupid, oh my God.
Yeah, I have never heard thephrase do your own research,
uttered by someone who waspassingly familiar with research
.
Yeah, fair.

Speaker 3 (01:11:17):
So, is that it or what?

Speaker 2 (01:11:19):
I've only been on four or five times, but there's
this moment every time, I thinkthat's the I keep cutting out
every time I try to talk.

Speaker 4 (01:11:26):
So I'm just like fuck it, I know Rob gave up on that.

Speaker 3 (01:11:29):
I understand, rob.
I feel bad for you man.
That's so frustrating.
We all feel bad for Rob feelbad for rob.

Speaker 2 (01:11:41):
Yeah, he's in canada.
He cuts out.
Hey, hey, I found my pencil.

Speaker 3 (01:11:43):
Okay, things are looking up now was that him
saying it again, or did we justget the signal repeated from the
beginning of the video?

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
it just took took an hour and a half to come back,
you know we always say don't beyour worst, and if you want to
know the worst, it's.
It's rob's situation the worstis in the room with us.
Look at that and don't be that.
Oh man, hey, wasn't that agreat time?
Listen to the podcast you werejust I'm assuming you knew, or

(01:12:11):
you were just listening to inmoderation.
So if you go ahead and hit thefive star button, is that a
thing?

Speaker 4 (01:12:14):
The like button.
That's a thing.
Yeah, the like button onYouTube.

Speaker 1 (01:12:16):
If you're on YouTube, hit the like button, not the
dislike button.
That's a bad button.
The like button.

Speaker 4 (01:12:20):
Don't touch, don't touch, so hit all the other
buttons, the share, thesubscribe, you can go check out
all those things.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
Subscribe.
Go check out our Patreon.
We do have a Patreon.

Speaker 4 (01:12:33):
It doesn't matter.
Whatever you have, that's whereyou'll find all the news for
this.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
We're super appreciative.
You can find all sorts of otherstuff there.
We do giveaways, I thinksometimes, Sometimes, yeah,
absolutely so peace.

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Episode Transcript

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