Unpacking Fitness Myths: Tackling Social Media Misinformation with Ben Carpenter

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to episode 69 plus one Plus one, as Liam
forgot 69 last time.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Still mad about that.
I was going to say it's a weeklater, but it's only been like
two days.
Man, this has been like thelongest week ever.
That's all right.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
How you doing, rob.
It has also been the longestweek ever for me, so let's just
jump right into this, because Ithink both of us just want to
get this on with.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yeah, let's get this on with.
Yeah, I thought you were aboutto say we're desperate to get
this over with.
I was like give us your quicktips, best tips, in about five
minutes.
Then you know we'll have theshortest episode.
No, I'm actually unlike thisguy.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
We're just absolutely desperate.

Speaker 2 (00:36):
I am excited to have to do this episode because, okay
, listen, we, we got ben ontoday.
Ben carpenter, everybody knowshim, we don't need to introduce
you.
Um, I started following youlike when I like downloaded
tiktok I think you're like thefirst or like second person I
started following.
I was like, oh, wow, tiktok'sactually like pretty decent,
like it's got it, got some coolstuff here, and then it kind of

(00:58):
went on.
I was like, oh, it's not okay,it's not all good, but like it
started off real well, itstarted off absolutely crumbled
to shit after that day like thisis great man.
I know it's been like becauseyou've been doing social media
for how?
For how long have you been likemaking content, social media?

Speaker 3 (01:15):
I've been a personal trainer since 2006 and I started
social media since 2009, likefacebook and youtube, I think
2009.
Like Facebook and YouTube, Ithink it was 2009.
I remember someone nagging meto make an Instagram.
Make an Instagram Like I soundlike my mom.
Make an Instagram saying likeoh, that's the place all the

(01:36):
cool kids are now Like one of myfriends has got 70,000
followers.
You should start this Instagramthing.
I was like, oh, it just doesn'tlook like my vibe.
Everyone's posting it's goingto go away soon.
Anyway, It'll go away soon.
And then same thing with TikTokLike the peer pressure, I ended
up joining there.
But yeah, it's actually.
Oh fuck, 16 years on socialmedia Nearly 16 years.

(01:58):
Too long, Too long.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
That's a lot of time to be doing this.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
I mean 2009,.
That's like when YouTube didn'tlike YouTube start in like 2009
or something around there.
You were like at the start ofit.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
I can't, I surely can't.
Surely it started before that.
I'm probably sure my socialmedia journey.
I started basically like I usedto log on and post something
and log off.
I was never a consumer, so fora long time I didn't.
I didn't really have any socialmedia friends like I was slow
to follow both of you.
But part of that is just I logon, post something, log off.
I was not.

Speaker 2 (02:31):
Uh, I wasn't I wasn't used to the social side of
social media of like kind ofsort of the react content to
other things and like thefitness world and stuff like
that.
So do you just like check yourtags and you're like, oh, this
dickhead again.
All right, let me talk aboutthat.
Go on, is that what it?

Speaker 3 (02:46):
is Actually literally that.
So, um, I like doing reactionvideos because it's the
equivalent of someone asking mea question in the gym.
So I used to.
If someone will walk up to mein the gym or or a client would
say, oh hey, I saw this, thisnew story in this newspaper,
saying like eggs are killing youor something like, is it true?
And I used to just answerquestions for free, obviously,

(03:08):
in the gym when people had them,and I would happily spend five,
10, 15, however long talking topeople about stuff for free and
I was like, oh, if I do this onsocial media, it's scalable and
it helps more people.
And I like responding to tagsbecause it's the same thing.
It's like if, if lots of people, if 20 people, have a question
about the keto diet, it means Ihave to make a video about the

(03:30):
keto diet right now.
Admittedly, I have likeslightly changed tact a little
bit because that you knowthere's a fine line with
reaction videos.
I know both of you are happy toreaction videos as well, but
there is a fine line whereyou're responding to, a fine
line between responding tomisinformation and just looking
for things to disagree with, andI don't want to look like I'm

(03:54):
one of those people.
I've seen people where the vibeis.
I'm just desperate to findsomething to disagree with right
and I really don't like the Iwant to prove I'm smarter than
you.
Yeah, and I the there are somepeople I'm like not going to
name names, obviously likemillions oh man, I was just
about to ask you name all thenames.
That's gonna be the worst thereare some people that that kind

(04:16):
of do similar videos to me, butI'm just like everything you you
do, just it feels so negativethat it feels like you're trying
to one up.
So, uh, over time I realizedthat about 75 percent of the
things I was tagged in were allbullshit, because of course,
bullshit is what goes viral, soit's if I'm responding to a lot
of bullshit it's because that'swhat I'm tagged in.

(04:36):
I'm not trying to do that, butevery so often someone would be
like all you're doing is isresponding to people's videos,
and I was like I guess that ishow it comes across to some
people and I don't want to beperceived as that because I'm
worried that some people willlook at me and think he is a
real fucking asshole and I'm notdeep down, but I do understand

(04:58):
why it can look like that.
So I do a lot of reactionvideos or response videos.
It's probably more precise.
So I do a lot of reactionvideos or like response videos.
It's probably more precise.
But I try and make sure thateven if I have to almost
disproportionately cherry pick,I'll actually go out of my way
to find things I agree with.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
I'm not really like this video and I'll yeah, I
started doing like just reactionagainst, like you know, the
constantly oh, fucking seed oilsagain for the 38th time,
awesome.
And eventually I was like, okay, let's do some like good videos
people give in good advice.
Let's do recipes all this isfun.
I had to do just just otherstuff, also for your own mental
health, I can't.
You know, I'm sure if you'vebeen doing it for you know 38

(05:35):
years or whatever that likeeventually you're just like fuck
, this is again.
I'm going over this.
Okay, let me ask you, like,what are the like the most
common things that you see?
Like again, again you're likeyou.
I've been doing this for thismany years, I've gone over this
just so many times and it justkeeps coming up that you're like
.

Speaker 3 (05:51):
I don't even want to do it again.
There are some videos where I'mjust I can almost go to my
folder because every time I makea video on like fasted cardio,
it's like here are the verysmall number of studies that I
could actually test fastedcardio in, you know chronic real
life settings.
So it's like here is my fastedcardio folder and there are some
where I'm just like I can't dothis again or I feel bad about

(06:14):
doing it again.
How controversial is it to namenames?

Speaker 2 (06:20):
We name all the names .
We got no issues here.

Speaker 3 (06:26):
I had to stop responding to tags on like
Eddiedie abuse videos.
Oh, I, I can understand that.
Uh, it was almost like where doyou start and stop?
It's literally just waffle.
It's.

Speaker 2 (06:34):
It's so much waffle although waffles are obviously I
still get tag paul saladino,just like constantly, just like
he's saying yeah it's like.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
It's one of those where it's like I think there's
there's enough truth where itsounds plausible to people some
of the time, or quite a lot ofthe time, and then every so
often it just strays further andfurther away.
But when you respond to one ofthe ones that's really extreme,
they're like yeah, but he's justsaying eat real food, and it's
like he's just telling peoplethat they should just be eating,

(07:04):
you know, just healthier andexercise more.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
And that's why he has a shirt off and he's yelling at
a bottle of seed oils.
That's why.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
I don't think so.
Yeah, that's not the same thing.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
Yeah, like fasted cardio, he's got a spear and
fruit in front of him andvegetables, and he's yelling
about how a potato is killingyou and you're telling me that
he's just trying to make peoplehealthier.
Okay, sure, this is awesome.
That's all I love social media.

Speaker 3 (07:28):
Um, fasted cardio was like a big one for a long time.
I don't haven't seen that onequite as much recently.
Keto dieting and low carbdieting has obviously been huge
for a long period of time.
Intermittent fasting has beenhuge for a while now.
Now, obviously like, the newertrend is carnivore.
Seed oils, food dyes is a bigone.

Speaker 2 (07:52):
The first few you mentioned, though like I get it,
because I think it's like oneof these things are like fasted
cardio.
It's like, okay, so you don'thave food in your system, you
don't have like energy, you knowcoming in, so you're using fat.
So they're like, oh, you'reusing fat for fuel, which, like
energy, you know coming in, soyou're using fat.
So they're like, oh, you'reusing fat for fuel, which, like
you know, all the same thingwith like, uh, with keto, like
you're gonna burn more fat forfuel if you're on keto because
you're consuming more fats.

(08:14):
It's just like these, likelittle sound bites you can use
to say like, oh, you're gonnaburn more fat during this.
It's like, yeah, yeah, that'stotally cool.
But like, what about the restof the day?
Like you're gonna eat more,you're gonna eat later, right?
No, or you're just not gonnaeat ever and then you're just
gonna implode into nothingness,or you're just gonna, you're
gonna starve, like what's gonnahappen the funny thing about
that like short-term substrateutilization argument, is that I

(08:35):
used to be a super hardcorelow-carb person.

Speaker 3 (08:37):
I remember years and years ago when I was like 19, 20
years old I'm like 37 now Iforgot my age, nearly 38, um and
I remember I was like ahardcore low-carb guy for years
and I used to think the samething as like research showing
that carbs raise insulin andinsulin, you know, fatty acid

(08:57):
oxidation.
So therefore low-carb diets arebest and they're even
researchers like one of my kindof online friends more than real
life friends but a guy calledJames Krieger.
He published research where hethought low carb diets were
favorable for fat loss and then,over time, it's like, actually
we tested it with with um, anequal amount of protein, and we

(09:18):
tested it again under isocaloricconditions and what we thought
used to be true isn't trueanymore.
So obviously, like scienceevolves and I think sometimes
people look at certainly me I'dimagine you too as well, but I
will only speak for me because Idon't want to project but
sometimes people will look at melike he's trying to be holier
than thou, shouting from hispedestal, but in reality, a lot

(09:42):
of things that I make content on, the things that I've fallen
for.
They of things that I makecontent on.
The things I've fallen for.
They're things that I'vebelieved as well.
I'm often I'm often mythbusting, myths that I have
fallen into in the past.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
You have some other ones, so you used to be into,
like you know, the low carb.
Was there anything else you youbelieve in?

Speaker 1 (09:58):
I got into like the bcaas for a while let me get
everyone, yeah, yeah let me getthe list.

Speaker 3 (10:05):
Bcaas absolutely the.
The amount of money I've spenton on supplements, including
bcas, over the years would beeye-watering if I looked at it
now.
Um, what else was that?
Low carb, definitely.
Fasted cardio, definitely I was.
I was huge for zooming in onthings that I thought might make
a tiny difference, notrealizing how much stress I was

(10:26):
causing myself, being scared ofchemicals in some ways.
I know that's a vague way todescribe it, but you know what I
mean.
I actually remember years andyears ago, back when I was a
low-carb person organic foodthat was another one Very much.
I remember following people whoused to say things you will

(10:49):
think that this is a modern dayvideo when I describe it now
because it's like come fullcircle.
They used to say things likebecause sugar is so bad for you,
if you see sugar on theingredients list, you can't eat
it, for example.
And I remember going into uh,going food shopping and I
remember going to pick up achicken, like as far as put

(11:09):
veganism as an argument to oneside because I know that's
controversial, but as far asthings that people eat go,
chicken is obviously morenutritious than most things that
most people eat a lot of thetime.
But I remember picking it upand looking and one of the
ingredients was sugar and I waslike shit, I can't eat this it's
.
And one of the ingredients wassugar and I was like shit, I
can't eat this, it's got sugarin it and it was like in

(11:29):
hindsight it was probably a gramof sugar in, like the seasoning
, in the same way that if youbuy mexican seasoning packets,
there's often like a little bitof sugar as a filler and a
binder and yeah but why is theresugar in it?

Speaker 2 (11:42):
why are they adding it's?
Because they're trying to makeyou fat with that.
You know, that's what that onegram of sugar.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
What I was like, oh no, that's.
That's really bad for you.
And you know, sugar causesdiabetes and sugar exactly sugar
causes inflammation and sugarcauses all of these things and I
I wouldn't eat it.
And I remember it kind ofspiraled down to the point that
my mental health was in theseventh layer of hell and I

(12:09):
wouldn't socialize with friendswhere I was going out to
restaurants.
I wouldn't buy food from places.
I used to have to look at amenu every time I was ordering,
try and look at ingredients listif I was buying food online.
But then it got to the pointwhere I didn't even like eating
food at friends houses becauseif they were preparing food I
was like how did you cook that?
Like what did you cook that andwhat kind of oil did you cook

(12:30):
that?

Speaker 1 (12:30):
all of that stuff here's my seed oil allergy card
yeah, and that's the like.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
like I say, we've kind of come full circle and my
mental health was shit and liketangibly that I could put my
finger on like what could Ipinpoint?
I cannot tell you a singlething about my health that was
better then than it is now.
So when people are like, oh youknow, but you eat ultra
processed food sometimes, likethat's so bad for your health, I

(12:56):
literally feel healthier nowthan I did then, because when I
do eat those things, I don't, Idon't get stressed about it, I
don't freak out, I don'tsuddenly binge eat because I
feel guilty that I've eaten onecookie or two slices of bread or
whatever else is beingdemonized at the time.
Yeah, I have like a realpersonal relationship to those

(13:16):
fucking grocery store videos.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
like if there's anything that boils my piss, it
is grocery store videos it'salways in the fucking grocery
store, and lately it's just likeoh, let's fucking lose the
shirt too, why not?
You know what?

Speaker 3 (13:32):
The funny thing is it's on paper.
I don't even mind the idea ofgrocery store videos.
If I was in a grocery store andI was like, hey, here are some
foods that I think could be morenutritious.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Why didn't you swap this for this?

Speaker 3 (13:44):
Brilliant foods that I think could be more nutritious
.
Right, why didn't you swap thisfor this?
Yeah, brilliant.
Like that's the same type ofthing that a dietitian might do
with people like, oh, look atyour diet and let's see what we
can improve.
Like that as a concept is isfantastic.
But if you look at all of thegrocery store videos on social
media, it's the fact that somany of them are garbage that
it's just become a running jokewhen I've been getting tagged in
recently that I, I just, I love, I hate.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
No, I hate, I love both.
Um, it's, they're likecomplaining about food, of
fruits and vegetables beingbigger like.
I'm seeing that a lot like.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
They're like.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
These things are like gmo sorry, I'm so, I'm so sorry
, miss, miss miss, you'recomplaining to me that that this
bell pepper is too large.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Is that the?
Do you look at me?
Do you really think americansare unhealthy right now because
they're eating large bellpeppers?
Like where on this, let's,let's, let's, let's take a step
back here.

Speaker 3 (14:38):
Oh shit that is the issue.
I I actually think that's funny.
It's like the same thing wherepeople zoom in on one vegetable
and say, like this is causingkidney stones.

Speaker 2 (14:51):
The one oxalates, it's got isocyanthine, whatever,
even if you're like rates of Xcondition have gone up.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
Especially when you zoom in on vegetables, it's like
no one fucking eats them.
No one is eating vegetables.
For you to look up hugeobservational data and be like,
oh, the rate of this has beengoing up and that is why no one
is touching broccoli.

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Broccoli is causing nothing when, like, three
percent of people ever eat itand so this brings to the point
that I definitely want to talkabout.
I think I'm forgetting it too,because I got this.
This showed up my houseyesterday, literally yesterday,
or maybe the day before, I don'tknow.
Days run together again.
It's been a long, it's it's thelast week, has been 18 days,
but this showed up recently andI just started, like I was at

(15:36):
the gym today for thoselistening what, what?
liam is holding up ben's bookben's book yes the new book, the
other one, I'd like the recordto show you that this was not
planned.
Yes, I read this on thetreadmill today because I will
do anything to distract myselffrom cardio.
God, I do not enjoy it like inany way at all.

Speaker 1 (15:58):
So anything I can do.
That's what a.

Speaker 2 (15:59):
Nintendo Switch is for?
Yeah, like I have my.
I was just before this.
We were with this podcast.
I was playing a little bit ofVR, like trying to do something
just to like get to move, and Iwas going to clean my house.
That's my fucking cardio.
Like I was out just cleaning mycar because I was in my house
and I was like, oh, my car needsclean.
I haven't had half the shit inmy house, but I just switched
over my car.

(16:49):
No-transcript.
What are they putting in ourfood?
What sort of chemicals are theyputting in our food that make
us fat?
Holy shit.
Okay, first off.
First off, I don't remember theexact numbers, but like the
amount of food we eat at home,like a home cooked food, has
gone down significantly.
Right, we have a lot more fastfood just available, this hyper

(17:09):
palatable like super delicious,high in calories, you know, like
cheaper food everywhere.
And now our jobs requires tolike what people used to like
working like you know, I don'tknow what.
What do people used to do?
Coal mines or something whoknows?
Like, yeah, but they moved more.
They moved more right, like Idon't know what kind of jobs
people did back then.
Listen, I'm an influencer.
I sit in front of a camera andI record myself.

(17:29):
I don't know what's going on inthe world.
Back in the day, when you hitthe age of 10, you were thrown
in the mines I know right, andthen um, but now you know, we so
basically move less and we haveaccess to more of these like
really delicious foods and it'sjust like pretty obvious.
Like 90 of americans don't hittheir vegetable requirements
close to that for fruit, like I,I'm just I'm baffled at how we

(17:52):
can just be like, oh no, it'sthis, this ingredient that's
making us, like it's msg, likethat's what I see, like often,
like what are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (17:59):
it's like that reminded me of one of those
videos I saw recently wheresomeone's like look at this
photo of people from people in1917.
Look at this photo now, yeah,yeah, yeah.
And then it's like like you saywhat is the, what is the
chemical they have put in thisfood?
Like it, like it's one thing,and I'm like zoom the fuck out.
Oh, my god, um, what, what,couldn't you what?

Speaker 2 (18:22):
it's like there's a forest behind them and they have
a twig and they're just staringat the twig and you're like
there's a look around you I'mlike what?

Speaker 3 (18:29):
is there anything that you could zoom in on and go
?
You know what?
That is actually super similarto how it was 50 years ago, like
everything has changed.
The amount of technology we usechange, the amount of desk jobs
we use, change like I can sit.
I can sit on my ass and orderfood to my door on a smartphone,
because I can't be bothered towalk to fucking walmart or

(18:52):
target or whatever.
Because, even like even amazon,part of the reason amazon is
crushing it is because peopledon't want to leave their
fucking homes.
That's part of the reason.
It's like one touch order,something comes to the house my
wife a day a few hours.
My wife can order soda in themorning and get it in the
afternoon because where we livesome of them are literally same

(19:14):
day delivery and it's like onetouch soda to the door, like
didn't get that in the 1970s, orlike how many tv channels we
had when I was a kid.
I know this sounds like I'mlike a granddad when I say, oh,
back in we had when I was a kid.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
I know this sounds like I'm like a granddad when I
say oh, back in the day when Iwas a kid, we had to get up and
turn the TV to the channel.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, I remember having one of those TVs where
you had to get up and change thechannel and we have four
channels, four channels.
Every time you wanted to changea channel, you have to get up
and press a button and then goand sit back down.
Nowadays it's like oh, I can'tfind anything on the eight
bazillion channels we get on TV,so I'm going to load Netflix
and if there's nothing onNetflix, I'll go to Amazon Prime
.
If there's nothing on AmazonPrime, I'll go to Hulu.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
And you know what, if you want remote, you can just
pull up the app on yoursmartphone and still change the
channel just from was going tosay was that I love how people
say there was an obesity spikein the 1960s and everybody seems
to have forgotten that in the1960s, suddenly, television
became widely available like man.

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Like you, lived in the europe's right ben like you
lived, didn't you live in theeurope's for a while.
As to that, region.

Speaker 3 (20:20):
there's like there's like a running joke in England
or in Europe that Americansdon't know geography, and I
think part of that is reinforcedby the fact that America is so
big that Americans don't need toleave America.
Like the whole of England fitsinto California.
So to Americans, they can go ona road trip and they will spam
the length of England.

Speaker 2 (20:40):
Oh, you don't understand To the Europeans.
Like you drive six hours acrossNew York, you are still in New
York.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
To us it's 10 hours south coast.
You can drive from the southcoast of England to the north
coast of Scotland in somethinglike 10 or 12 hours.
I have lived in the Europes,you've lived in Europes yes, the
Europes which is it's on thecon and odd.
It's on the con and odd.
Yeah, the funny thing is whereI grew up.

(21:08):
Right, I grew up in this tiny,tiny, tiny rural village.
We had 200 houses and 600people and there was one tiny
shop, the tiniest shop, like apost office.
There were no restaurants,there were no pubs, there was no
fast food, there were notakeaways, because where we were
was slightly outside of thearea.

(21:29):
Anyone would deliver to.
So I remember growing up, andmy mum would.
She would go to a food shop,bring the food home, home, cook
something.
That was it, and that's whatfood was like for me.
If I wanted to, if I wanted todo anything, um, social, I would
go out in the street and I'dkick a ball around with friends

(21:49):
or throw a frisbee or somethinglike that.
It was always very, very active.
It wasn't about computer gamesand stuff when I was a kid.
Then over time, computer gamesstarted creeping in, and I mean
it's happening everywhere.

Speaker 2 (22:02):
That's not like you know, it's not just yeah but
like I, but like I feel like inthe Europes, like people do a
lot, they do, you know, there's,there is, you know, a lot more
walking and also, like I feellike portion sizes, I feel like
that's something that's not leftout.
That's left out quite a bit,like you know.

(22:29):
You, could you like you?

Speaker 3 (22:29):
look at a fast food place around here or any like
even just restaurant, like youget it.
You're like a 20 ounce steak,that's all I get.
What do you mean?
Like I need?
I don't think people realize howbig portions are in america
unless you're traveled, becausefriends I know that have
traveled a lot.
This is it's not like acontroversial thing to say, um,
but american portion sizes areridiculous.
They are ridiculous and you canlook at.
You can look at portion sizesof things over time.
It's very difficult to tomeasure portion sizes of every

(22:53):
food on the market becausethere's you know, there's so
many data points and foodchanges over time.
But you can look at individualbrand items and be like I'll
look at a mcdonald's burger whenit was first introduced and
look at how many big Mac sizesare available now.
You can do things like that.
But as an example, I remember Ithink it was the first time I
ever came to America wherecertainly the first time I'd

(23:15):
gone to like this part ofAmerica, and I was in Vegas with
a friend and I know Vegas isn'treflective of the rest of
America but nowhere isreflective of the rest of
America because it's so big anddiverse and we went to this
steakhouse.
It wasn't like a fast foodplace, it wasn't like a place
that's known for beinggluttonous or having huge

(23:35):
portion sizes.
It just went to like asteakhouse and I ordered
something and when the waiterbrought it out I tried sending
it back because I thought he'd.
I thought I thought he'd got itwrong.
This is for a family yeah, I waslike oh sorry, this isn't, uh,
this isn't what I ordered.
And he repeated it back to meand I said, yeah, I uh, I only
ordered it as a starter.
And he was like this is astarter and I was like shit, the

(23:57):
bed.
I thought it was a main coursebecause it's so big.
But then if you go to you cango the other way, like if you go
to places like france or spain.
Typically from experience atleast typically the portion
sizes are tiny in comparison.
So when I first came to america, portion sizes were too big,

(24:18):
but now I've spent more time inamerica.
When I go to other countries,portion sizes are too small.
I've got used to americanportion sizes.
It's like it's an effect knownas as portion distortion the
idea that if you grow up withcertain portion sizes, that just
becomes normal.
Because if you're used toeating a plate this big for
anyone listening yes, making ashape with my hands and then and

(24:43):
then you have to eat a platethis big for anyone listening
slightly smaller, that sucks.
No, no one wants to go fromthis to this and reduce their
food intake by 20 like.
That's not fun, it's.
It's psychologicallydistressing to look at a plate
and be like I know that's not asmuch food as I want to eat, but
if that's what you grow uplooking at, so you just get used
to huge portion sizes andAmerica is ridiculous.

(25:06):
I think we can just say Americais ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (25:08):
We don't need a citation for that.
And not only that, but like yousaid, you can get that portion
size with a few taps of yourmagic rectangle in your pocket,
Like you just go da-da-da andthen it just shows up at your
house.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
I'll tell you one of the other things that I one that
I one of the other things thatI realized and again, this was
like uh, wherever you go inAmerica is obviously different
to other parts of America.
But one of the things I noticedwhen I first came here is how
quickly food is um served.
So it's like you can walk downa street and there seem like a

(25:38):
lot more um, they're not allfast food restaurants
quote-unquote fast foodrestaurants but they're things
that you can get food quickly,the equivalent of like Chipotle.
You can stand there and orderwhile you're standing and you
can have your food within fiveminutes.
Compared to, it's like they'recalled quick serve, instead of
sitting down and getting a menuand ordering and waiting for a

(26:01):
chef to cook it and you get food30 or 40 minutes later.
So we very much become more ofan instant gratification society
.
If you want food, places haveto serve it quick, in the same
way that Amazon need to delivernext day or the same day, if
they can.
People want food faster.
They want food to be tastier,they want larger portions.

(26:21):
Right, you want more for yourmoney.
I don't think that's.
I don't think that's even likea controversial thing to say.
If you're spending 10 bucks onfood, it would be great if that
10 bucks was fucking deliciousand you got as much for your
money as possible.
Yeah, so food manufacturers?
I know people are like, oh,food manufacturers, they're
trying to poison us.
It's like food manufacturersare trying to make money because

(26:42):
their business is so they makefood that is fucking tasty isn't
that the craziest thing?

Speaker 2 (26:46):
They're like why are they trying to make you addicted
?
I'm like well, they're tryingto make food taste as good as
possible.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
That's kind of how fucking economics works, like if
you're baking a cake at home,you don't go.
Can we make it just like a bitless tasty?

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Instead of sugar, let's use salt.
Let's just do all salt, one cupof salt.
Let's make it taste like shit.

Speaker 3 (27:06):
We'll make it as tasty as possible, like if my
wife makes a cake, it's like alittle bit more sugar, some more
sprinkles or whatever.
We do the same fucking thing athome, but it's so easy to go.
Our manufacturers are trying tokill us or whatever.
They're just trying to makemoney.

Speaker 2 (27:21):
Trying to make money just like the wellness
influencers are trying to makemoney off their supplements that
don't actually contain theactive compound they say is in
the said supplement.
Shots fired and the supplementshold, I'm just going to be
straight honest with like tiktokand like the that that you know
the future of that up in theair and, like they're with it,
my main source of income.
I'm like, all right, let melook at some like you know
companies and whatnot how muchhave you been offered?

(27:43):
for I mean just for, like, I'm,just, I'm, I'm blown away with
just the number of like out ofevery 20, but tell us exactly
how much money you've been.
I don't listen, every singleone of them seems to be you know
a few thousand dollars, just tomention a product plus you know
like commission or whatever youknow on on it and it's like,

(28:03):
but it's seriously like out of20 emails, 18 or 19 of them are
like supplements.

Speaker 3 (28:09):
Yeah, like I'm just is there any?

Speaker 2 (28:11):
and then the 20th is like a mattress.
I'm like, fuck it, I guess I'mselling mattresses.
Like what the hell is that?
What do I do here?
Like with it sucks.
So I don't know man, I fucking,I just I don't like, I don't
want to like supplements, I'mjust throwing.
I've said this many times, butI don't know man, I don't really
like supplements.
I've said this many times, butI don't really like it out there
.

Speaker 3 (28:27):
That's okay.
That's not controversial.
I don't think I'm not going tosay their name, even though
they've said it publicly.
I'm not going to say their namebecause I can't remember how
much of the information theyblanked out, but I'm pretty sure
a friend of mine got offered$10,000 a month to promote a
probiotic supplement.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, thousand dollars a month, uh, to promote
um like a probiotic supplement.
Yeah, probiotics, yeah, bloom.
Bloom has been shelling outlike tons of money for
influencers for legal reasons, Idid not specify a brand that we
, we that's all on liam, were-roll, we, we roll with it.
They I I mean like, and it's,it's all fine, but like I'm not
spending my money on it.
So even like I'm drinking this,this company was it Poppy?

(29:07):
They sent me this and they werelike, oh, we should do a
partnership.
I'm like I don't know.
It's got like two grams offiber and it kind of costs more
than regular diet soda and itdoesn't taste as good as diet
soda to me.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
So thanks for these.
It's like $ fifty a can, Ithink, for those at least where
we are I'd rather have like justa coke zero.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
You know if I'm being honest and then you know I'll
do a part.
Are you?
Are you shilling for?
Big, big cola I listen, that'swhat I was just about to say.
It's like I'll do, like I wouldtotally be like, yeah, fucking
love coke zero.
If you want to pay me to saythat that's totally fine, then
I'm.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
Then I am a shill for big soda that's how I was all
of that controversy a few monthsago with um american beverage
paying people to talk aboutsweeteners, aspartame, when that
you didn't even get, didn'teven get paid.

Speaker 2 (29:54):
You missed I didn't even get paid.
I made videos talking about howaspartame is safe.
I didn't make shit off that Ithink there's like.

Speaker 3 (29:59):
I think there's like an interesting thing there,
right?
So you have talked about if I'mgoing to say it like you, I'd
say aspartame I'd sayaspartamine as whatever.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
How do you say it aspartame?

Speaker 3 (30:13):
but americans say aspartame.
Um, if you, if you're like I,personally think the research is
not convincing enough that Ishould have to avoid this.
Like everyone says, I willdrink Coke Zero or other brands
or whatever, but if they paidyou, people would not trust what
you say.
I think it's okay for us toadmit that, even if it's

(30:34):
something that you agree with,there is a when financial biases
intertwine.
You do have to go.
People are going to view me asless trustworthy.
So if they said we will pay youto promote Coke Zero or another
generic brand, would you takeit or would you be like, oh no,
people aren't going to trust me.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
For something I already drink.
Yeah, I would totally.
I'd be like, yes, I mean,listen, if I'm already talking
about something and I likesomething, then yeah, sure, if
you want to pay me to say, ontop of that, that's totally cool
.
But and yeah, I know people aregonna be like, well, now I
don't trust you.
You trust me before, you don'ttrust me now, that's totally
cool, whatever.
Yeah, if I can roll with it,especially I think that's fair.

Speaker 3 (31:13):
I think that's fair, it's just that that is how
social media works.

Speaker 2 (31:17):
Diet soda is the fucking nectar of nectar of the
gods, and I will not hearotherwise that shit.
That's one of the greatestinventions humans have come up
with is fucking diet soda.
You're telling me thisdelicious can of Coke that has
what now like 140 calories, andall this sugar and all this
stuff, and I'm drinking two aday.
So then you know, on top ofthat, I'm drinking like 80 grams
of sugar.
I can reduce that to zero.
I can reduce that to zero gramsand I still get the taste.

Speaker 3 (31:43):
I remember years and years ago.
So you know, whenever any of ustalk about diet soda, someone
is going to get really angry.
And I I always, I almost alwaystalk about it from a body
weight perspective, because bodyweight is such a clean metric
to study, it's so easy to sayafter eight weeks, the group
consuming diet drinks lost 0.5kilos and the people consuming

(32:04):
sugary drinks gained one kilo.
It's like super clean, it's not?
Not controversial?

Speaker 1 (32:08):
um, it's controversial that you just used
kilos.
Where's my?

Speaker 3 (32:13):
freedom units big on the metric system here.
Um, and I remember, likeeveryone, there is always
someone who gets super angryabout the fact, like, yeah, but
it's going to make you gainweight because of this, because
of this, like sugar is betterfor you, blah, blah.
I don't think they realize whatpeople in the real world are
like because, as an example, Iremember a guy coming up to me I

(32:34):
shit you not, this doesn't evensound like a real conversation.
There's a guy coming up to me.
He's a huge bodybuilder and I'mgonna do this as close to word
for word I can, because it's somany years ago that he's not
going to be watching this.
It's not like a personal dig.
And he was like bro, I'mdieting for it, I'm going to
start dieting for a show.
I want to lose some body fat.
I'm going to go low carb, butthere are still.

(32:58):
There are still some things Ineed, because I need carbs for
energy.
So it was like I'm going lowcarb, but I need carbs for
energy.
And I was like I feel like youpick, pick a lane that's trying
to ride two donkeys with one ass.
But as we were talking, hepicked up a bottle of Coke and
started drinking it and he said,oh, I drink one of these a day,
but it wasn't a bottle of CokeLike you would normally drink

(33:20):
liters, two liters a day, one ofthe family size bottles a day.
And when people are like, oh,you should just have sugar, you
should just have the real thinginstead of sweetness, I think
they're underestimating how muchsugar people can drink.
It's very easy to be like sugaris more natural than than
sweetness, so it's better todrink sugar.

(33:40):
It's like do you know how muchsugar that guy was drinking
every single day for years andyears of his life?
I drink one of these a day,every day, without fail.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
And I thought he was joking and he was not joking if
you go from six cans of regularsoda to six cans of diet soda.
That, objectively, is justgoing to make it easier to lose
weight, maintain your bodyweight, all that stuff like, and
there's so I, yeah, I thinkthere's.

Speaker 3 (34:05):
sorry, I might have accidentally interrupted that
and I didn't know if you were atthe end of your sentence or not
, but that reminded me.
So I think there are often somekind of conflicting research
studies where people are like,oh, diet soda didn't win in this
case, or it did win in thiscase or whatever.
But part of that is because itheavily depends on how much
someone is drinking otherwise.
Like if you tell people todrink diet soda instead of

(34:26):
regular soda, if they're onlydrinking one a day, the net
difference isn't huge comparedto my friend who was drinking
two liters a day.
If he had gone to diet drinksor water or whatever, that would
obviously be a huge change.
And in free living scenariospeople will often, if they
change what they drink, theywill often change what they eat.
So there's that kind of runningjoke that someone will go and

(34:49):
order a Big Mac and fries andwhatever, whatever, but they
will order a diet drink.
It isn't as clean to just saypeople who drink diet drinks
should weigh less than peoplewho don't drink diet drinks or
whatever.
But there's so much researchout there that's like we found
an association between dietdrink consumption and higher
body weights.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
Right, but yeah, people generally will pick lower
calorie things, like diet soda,because that just makes it
easier.
Yeah, so listen, I'm just I'mjust ending it there.
Diet soda, nectar of the gods.
I will never give it up.
It's.
It's great even if that is,even if like aspartame aspartame
was something that was likeharmful in some amount.

(35:27):
I'm going down with the shipbecause it's fucking delicious
and it's definitely better thandrinking as much regular soda.
So, yes, thank you very much.
But I also wanted to oh, thatwas the other thing I want to
talk about because I mean, soyou do a lot of like fitness
stuff.
I've got a curious like, likewhen I was OK, so what.
I remember when I was younger Iwould watch like like

(35:49):
Spider-Man, like Tobey MaguireSpider-Man.
I would watch like likeSpider-Man, like Tobey Maguire
Spider-Man, right, and like.
He had a scene where he like hewas shirtless and we're like,
oh man, that dude's jacked, youknow.
And like or like early HughJackman Not, not, not juiced up
Hugh Jackman now allegedly, butlike early Hugh Jackman in like
X-Men, where he's like, oh man,he looks good.

(36:10):
And now if, like those bodieswent on, you know, social media,
be like, oh, do you even train,do you do, you lift till
discomfort, like I'm sure thatthe comments would be like
ruthless, so like, have you seenthat?
Like I'm sure you've seen itover the years, right, like you
must have kind of seen thattransition I've been like.

Speaker 3 (36:25):
I mean, I've been going to the gym since I was, I
think, 16 or 17 when I firstjoined, so so 20-ish years now,
and it's actually one of thosetopics I'm supposed to make a
video about in the next few days.
I've got it on my pending list.
But someone commented on one ofmy videos like a week or two
ago, saying I watched an oldfilm and someone who I thought

(36:49):
was jacked.
Then now I watch, they are notjacked and I think this is such
an interesting.
It's kind of like how portionchanges over, how portion size
sizes change over time, and thenit recalibrates your
expectations.
I think that media, and alsosocial media, has recalibrated
people's expectations of whathumans are supposed to look like

(37:10):
, because have you seen earlyBatman?

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Which early Batman?

Speaker 3 (37:19):
Look for the earliest Batman and the earliest
Superman images that you canfind and then compare them to
Henry Cavill or something likethat.
Even things like Zac Efron inBaywatch he wasn't supposed to
be a bodybuilder.
He wasn't supposed to be likean evil superhero where he is
supposed to have unrealisticlike you can argue that Bane

(37:42):
should be jacked as fuck becausehe is supposed to be you know
he's essentially on steroids.
Yeah, like you can argue forthat.
And when there's that wholething about Robert Pattinson as
Batman, saying he doesn't wantto do the whole super jacked
thing, loads of people are like,yeah, but you're Batman, you
need to be super jacked.
Like I know you can certainlyargue, when it comes to like
Marvel or DC or whatever, thatpeople should look jacked if

(38:02):
they're superheroes.
I do understand that argument,but someone like Zac Efron he
was just a lifeguard.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
Because Baywatch, who was the help me out, the rock,
and oh, do you mean originallyoriginal baywatch, who's the?

Speaker 3 (38:17):
what's his half hassle?
Yeah like he wasn't like a jackdude, like he was compare have
a look at david hasselhoff inlike original baywatch to like
zach efron and the rock inbaywatch as the film.
And the funny thing is, if youlooked at david hasselhoff now
you'd be like, oh, oh, my God,does he even lift?
I bet he doesn't even do like adedicated bench day man.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Do you even know what a mesocycle is?
What are you doing?
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (38:43):
But I think that's in keeping with media and social
media in general.
I think the bodies have evolvedand especially in the fitness
industry, like drug use, it'sobviously very hard to measure
drug use because it's such asecretive thing.
You can't exactly survey peopleand say tell me all the illegal
things.
If it's illegal in somecountries, depending on what

(39:05):
they take, tell me all theillegal things that you've been
doing.
You can get some anonymoussurveys and some small scale
surveys and stuff.
But most guys at least wouldsay if they're going to a big
gym they would know that adecent percentage of the guys
there are taking gear.
And I have certainly seen itwith myself where I've been

(39:25):
lifting long enough to becomfortable in the knowledge
that I am in a very smallpercentage of what physiques
look like, just because not thatmany people have been lifting
weights for 20 years, especiallyif it's their job, and have
been in magazines for looking acertain way, that type of thing.
So I'm comfortable enough toknow that my physique is still

(39:47):
in a very small percentage ofpeople statistically speaking.
But people will still look atme on social media and say that
I'm out of shape and that blowsmy mind.
Um, the number.
I wish I had taken a screenshotevery time someone hasn't has
insulted my physique, because Ithink it would be a good
demonstration of how fuckedpeople's body um ideals are.

(40:13):
I've had people.
I've had people on social mediaI, I have.
I started compiling them atsome point.
I have got over a dozen randomcomments from people telling me
that my neck is too thin.
I have I once had a guy Ipromise I'm not even joking, I'm
sure you're not I I once had aguy this was promise, I'm not
even joking, I'm sure you're not.
I once had a guy this was theweirdest one.

(40:34):
He sent me a photo of me and hehad drawn an arrow to my wrist
Because I was like one of thosephotos where I'm holding onto
something like a rope, and he'ddrawn an arrow to my wrist and
he said your wrist is so thinthat I would suggest you take
this photo down because it looksit might deter people from

(40:59):
working with you because youclearly um are not very well
developed in terms of howmuscular you are and like that
is that's the expectation thatcertain people in the fitness
industry will have, where it'slike if you don't look a certain
way, if you're not muscularenough everywhere, including
your fucking wrists, you you'renot a good.

Speaker 2 (41:20):
You're not setting a good example I've seen, I've
even seen a lot of, at least afew, um, you know, natural
lifters because, like that groupis actually pretty small right
now.
It's a really natural, if it'snot.
Like you know the ones thatclaim they are natural yeah,
exactly, wink, wink, the trendtwins are very natural, by the
way, and so like, and even themare like, they're like, yeah, no

(41:43):
, I'm actually going enhancedbecause it's just like that's
what I need to do to stay likerelevant in the, you know, in
the industry and it's it's.
Yeah, it sucks.
Like you see, people like jeffnipper is probably one of the
more cop, like most more popular, like natural lifters, and like
he gets a lot of shit for beinglike small.
I'm like this guy, like you knowthe way it's just gone over the

(42:06):
years, and like the distortionwe have with social media
because, of course, only likethe smallest percentage of like
the top, uh, you know the peoplewho are probably taking
enhancements and then also havethe genetics behind them.
They're the ones that are goingto rise to the top of, like you
know, social media.
Get a following right.
I think there's like.

Speaker 3 (42:22):
I think there's one easy example we can use when you
talk about fake naturals,because it's been admitted
enough to the point that itisn't even controversial to
admit it or talk about it.
But like the liver King as anexample, yeah, yeah, imagine if
he had done all of the thingsthat he had done, but he was not

(42:42):
on a shitload of drugs.
Imagine he just had a regularguy's physique.

Speaker 2 (42:47):
Let's say he was like zero chance.
He's like super skinny, what he?

Speaker 3 (42:51):
got, yeah, like doesn't, doesn't even lift in
the gym.
Super kind of skinny guy, oreven if he had way more body fat
, but if he wasn't roided out ofhis fucking mind if he had made
all the same.
If he had made all of the samevideos, would he have had
millions of followers?
No, because you see thephysique and people would be

(43:12):
like, yeah, but he clearly knowswhat he's talking about because
he's in shape, and that is thepower of looking a certain way
and the amount of trust thatpeople will put on you based on
how you look.
I used to have.
I know this.
I used to have clientsliterally come up to me in the
gym.
Uh, this happened numerous times, but as one example, I've sat
in an office on my laptop doingsome work and a young guy

(43:33):
knocked on the door.
It's like a glass-frontedoffice in the gym I used to work
at and he knocked on the doorand said you have a good
physique, can you train me?
I want to look like you.
So people will see a certainamount of muscularity and be
like he knows what he's talkingabout, so I'm going to hire that
person.
So if you do take a lot of gearand you are super muscular,

(43:54):
there are going to people thatautomatically assume whether
they realize how dangerous thisis as an assumption or not
automatically assume that guyknows what he's talking about.
So I want to hire that personbecause he looks how I want to
look.

Speaker 2 (44:07):
But the easiest way to look how other people want to
look is to take drugs oh, andhow do you like I don't see a
way of like combating that, LikeI don't, I don't even know how
you besides just trying toeducate and trying to show how
it has changed over the years?
You know, and like what?
I think a lot of guys do itbecause they think they're going
to get women by being, you know, large, more muscular, which

(44:32):
doesn't really does not pan outthe way you think it would in my
entire career, more guys haveasked me if I'm gay than women
have hit on me.

Speaker 3 (44:40):
I'm not even joking the percentage of women that
have hit on me in 20 years islike I could count them on one
hand, whereas the number of guysthat have hit on me, um, is
much, much higher.
Um, but like, here's an exampleI think here's a parallel
example, in case this is an evenslightly controversial idea for

(45:01):
some people.
Let's say, you want to buy someskincare products, are you
going to buy them from someonewho has, let's say, flaky skin a
common thing or are you goingto buy them from someone who has
perfect skin, right, and peoplego?
Are you going to buy them fromsomeone who has perfect skin,
right, and people go?
Well, I will buy them from theperson who has perfect skin.
But if the person's skin islike, okay, I need to take botox
.
Now, I need to get botoxbecause then more people are

(45:23):
going to trust that I can sellthis thing.
Um, that is how looking acertain way makes it easier to
sell certain things.
But you know, genetically somepeople are going to have worse
skin than others.
My wife is Asian for one andstereotypically they tend to
have clearer skin than a lot ofwhite people.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
So one of my friends, people who have different- skin
is like one of my friends Iremember.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
Uh, she was like what do you do with?
What do you do with your skin?
How is your skin so clear?
What's your skincare routine?
And my wife was like Iliterally wash my face with
water.
And my friend's like she wouldget spots and blemishes and dry
skin and flaky skin and spends,however, many hundreds of
dollars on skincare products.
But the point is it's easier tosell something when you look a
certain way, because there'sjust a natural thing in your

(46:10):
brain where you're like I trustthat person because of how they
look.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
It's very difficult to combat that yeah, man, it
really is like what I I that'sthat's what I like struggle with
.
I'm like I just I don't want tojust like accept and say
nothing, but like I, I genuinelyam just like at a loss for like
what to do, because it's soingrained in us and it and it
and it hits upon our like kindof just more like base brain,
you for like what to do, becauseit's so ingrained in us and it
and it and it and it hits uponour like kind of just more like

(46:35):
base brain, you know, like ourid, it's just right Like, as an
example of this how long haveyou been?

Speaker 3 (46:42):
how long have you been doing what you're doing?
You, you know that you're moreintelligent than the average
person when it comes to fitnessinformation, nutrition
information, like.
No one here would dispute thatright.
Um, but like, as an example, Iremember a guy in the gym.
He used to come up to me andask me for advice.
He would ask me for nutritionadvice, he would ask me for
training advice, um, but headmitted that he was on so much

(47:05):
gear that, in his own words,when he first injected it, he
injected too much and hecouldn't walk because he had
miscalculated how much he wassupposed to be injecting.
Um, and I remember the guy.
He's a lovely guy, he had onlybeen lifting for two years and I
didn't realize that when I sawhim, because the guy was built
like the fucking hulk, he wasmassive, he was so strong, he

(47:29):
looked like he was a few weeksaway from stepping on stage.
He weighed.
What are your weightmeasurements?
Do you talk stone?

Speaker 2 (47:36):
yeah, stone I mean.
Sometimes I use kelvin he, he,he, uh.

Speaker 3 (47:43):
He was something like two or three stone heavier than
me at my height and he had beenlifting for slightly under two
years and he, he, just he takesa lot of drugs.
But he was so much strongerthan me and so much more
muscular than me and he wouldask me for advice.
But if you saw both of us inthe gym and you were like I want
to build muscle, you are goingto go and ask the other guy.

(48:03):
Yeah, drugs are a provenshortcut.
Unfortunately, that's not ajudgment like it just can take
you from a to b faster or it cantake b further than you can get
on your own and yeah, and nowwe talk about, you know, access
to, like you know, social media.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
There's just easier to to get these things.
You might not be able to buythem on amazon, but you can
surely sure as hell get themshipped to your house disclaimer
for anybody thinking aboutdoing drugs.

Speaker 1 (48:29):
they also take your life expectancy from A to B
quicker.
Oh boring, Look at you comingin with all your health and
mortality.
One of us has to be the voiceof reason here.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
Upsides, you're bigger Downsides Literally
everything else.
Literally everything else isthe downside man.
But, rob, what were you saying?

Speaker 1 (48:55):
the downside man.
But, rob, what were you saying?
I'm well, here's the the, themost important question that you
you've gotten asked so manytimes and why did you steal
liam's mug?

Speaker 3 (49:02):
oh, fucking hell, that's a good one.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Yes, I totally forgot about the mug, bro.
Okay, so this was funny as shit.
So I see him with the mug.
I'm like that's cool's cool.
I got tagged on that so much,oh my gosh.
And I'm like I got to get oneof those.
So I'm like comment to yourvideos.
I'm like man, I got to get oneof those mugs and eventually, in
like one video I have the mugand you know, like I showed you
your video, it was like to makemy own.

Speaker 3 (49:41):
There was like a there was a solid couple of
months where I probably gottagged more times asking about
my mug.
Some people like did liam stealyour mug, or did you steal his
mug or do you just have the samemug, or whatever, and I was
like out of all the things Icould talk about, I feel like
this is quite low on the totempole.
And all of this started becauseone day I don't even know how

(50:02):
we got on it, but you know,there's novelty mugs that just
say like fuck on the front, orwhatever.
My wife and I on one of ourdate nights just went to a
painting place.
I was like, oh, why don't youpaint me a mug and I can
whatever.
And then she's like, what doyou want on it?
And I said I don't know, fuckme sideways, something like that
stuck it on and that that's howit started.
So when I start, some peoplegot unnecessarily angry about

(50:23):
that.
Oh my god, you've stolen liam'smug.
I was like I definitely havenot.

Speaker 2 (50:28):
I if, if I wanted to, I would have changed it, I
would not have stolen his mouthoh, that's fantastic, oh, man
that's some amazing dramabetween you two right there oh
man, that was listen it's, it'sall in, good fun, all right, it
was just, it was fun, it was.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
It was very funny man besides, everybody that knows
liam knows that he stealseverything, so oh, listen, I see
something I like and it'sworking, so why not just go
listen?

Speaker 2 (50:57):
oh man, that's.
I mean, that's like you knowthat's social media.
And I would get people askingme about, like, oh, the mug gets
me every time I do it, so thenI'd bring it out for like a
certain video.
Whenever I see another fuckinggrocery store walk, I'm like I
gotta get the mug for this one.
I I mean, come on, it's fuckingPaul Saladino again.
This is how I feel.

Speaker 3 (51:14):
I'm just I'm waiting, I'm waiting for a certain point
and then I'm just going to comeafter you for like a royalty
percentage on your merch haul.
I like that.

Speaker 2 (51:23):
Oh, man, so good, so good.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
But Liam, you had brought out his book earlier.
Yes, you just came out with anew book.
You should probably tell peopleabout that.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
Yes, I definitely want to plug the book.
So you had your first bookright, and then everyone kind of
complained that was like me,dumb me, not understand right,
and so you had to kind of dumbit down for us.

Speaker 3 (51:48):
I don't sound silly.
I don't really like talkingabout my book because it makes
me think that people are likelistening to this thinking.
That's why he's on that podcastand I would prefer to just talk
to friends on a podcast andnever mention a book, and if
people like me, they'll followme anyway, rather than me
talking about book.
Um, but what I what I will sayis all of the all of this came

(52:10):
years ago.
Uh, when I first met my wife.
She said to me before we weredating, she was like so what do
you do on social media?
Like, what do you sell?
Do you do online training?
And I was like no, I just, Ipersonally train people
face-to-face.
And she's like oh, do you haveyou got like an app?
And I was like no.
And she said do you sell eBooks?

(52:31):
And I was have you got like anapp?
And I was like no.
He said do you sell ebooks?
And I was like no, I don't doanything.
I literally just personal trainpeople.
She's like you don't make anymoney online, nothing.
And I was like no, zero,literally zero pounds.
And she said how long have youbeen on social media?
And I was like well, you know2009?
And she, she couldn't, couldn'tbelieve it and she's like at
the time I probably had I don'tknow, know I will guess, but say

(52:51):
100,000 followers or somethinglike that.
And she's like you've literallynever sold anything.
And I said no.
And she said, if you have allof these people following you,
they want something from you.
It's not you selling somethingfor the sake of selling
something, it's.
People look at you as atrustworthy voice.
You should give them somethingthat they can trust.

Speaker 1 (53:13):
If they don't want to support you, they won't buy it.
Right.

Speaker 3 (53:16):
So I started writing what was going to be an ebook
and I thought you know I'll takea few months.
I'll write a really good ebook.
Sell it online.
If people want to buy it theycan, but you know it'll be there
in the background and I endedup.
It ended up taking three yearsbecause I turned it into a print
book and self-publishing andhad to learn all the lessons of
shit, like how to buy ISBNs foryour book and all of the stuff

(53:41):
that people forget when it comesto self-publishing.
And I wasn't really expectingit to do very well.
I just thought I'll put it inthe background and if people
want to support me, they can.
Um, and it did surprisinglywell and if I had known how well
it was going to do, I wouldhave not written it in the same
way, because it started out as ahundred and one hundred and

(54:02):
forty thousand words, which islike literally two books back to
back is huge.

Speaker 1 (54:08):
Um, and I had to hire an editor and she's like
people's attention span doesn'thave I was gonna say that's
about uh, 99 percent longer thanthe average social media user's
attention span yeah.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
So I hired an editor and had to like, streamline it
and streamline it and streamlineit to the point where she's
like, okay, people will read itnow, but it was still longer
than most people's attentionspan.
It's still more detailed thanmost people's attention span.
So, um, that did well and, uh,a publisher ended up wanting to
sign me for another book, so Iwrote a second book to make it,
to make it easier.
It's kind of like you guys willknow this, capturing people's

(54:45):
attention on social media isdifficult, really difficult, and
if you make a let's say, wepick one topic that we've
mentioned today, like sweeteners, if you made the most detailed,
fucking incredible video aboutsweeteners, it's 10 minutes long
, but it is crammed full ofscience.
There are systematic reviews ontop of systematic reviews and

(55:06):
meta-analyses and control trialsand history and all of that you
can make the best, mostdetailed video on sweeteners
that you can, but if it's 10minutes long, it will not get as
many views as a funny videothat's 30 seconds long.
Yeah, and that is the thedifficult trade-off between
trying to provide usefulinformation in a way that

(55:27):
teaches people um, and managingto make it still entertaining to
read, um, and that's part ofthe reason I had to change my
strategy slightly because, likeI, I want to improve people's
health.
I don't actually care about fatloss as much as people think I
do.
It's just a common topic thateveryone asks me about.
So over time I've just kind ofbecome the fat loss guy.

(55:49):
Right, I want to improvepeople's health and it's very
difficult to improve someone'shealth if they don't want to
read a book.
My brother said to me like hemy brother is is dyslexic, um,
and he said I couldn't read yourfirst book.
I'm already on, I think,chapter three and I'm really
enjoying this and was like thatis kind of the whole point.

(56:10):
It's if I could get 100,000people reading my second book,
that could impact 100,000people's lives, and it's more
likely to happen than getting5,000 people to read my first
book, which has a lot moredetail in it, because at the end
of the day, people just want,like they want, the information

(56:30):
that is useful for them.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
Tell me what to do.
Tell the day.
People just want, like, theywant the information that is
useful for them.
Tell me what to do.
Yes, you're citing 18 studiesfor this one sentence you gave
that's super dope.
I love that.
But like also, I just needsimple, uh, you know, tips on on
what to do and that's what Isee and like when I you know
what kind of like changed, kindof, my perspective a little bit.
It's a little while ago.
There's a, there's an accounton I mean, he does like

(56:53):
instagram tube, on tiktok.
He calls his account I don'tgive a fuck foods and basically
you might I think I think you.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
I think when me and you made a video together, I
think we had a conversationabout this.
I think you showed me one ofhis videos, but I've never heard
of him.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
I've never seen the video before that just kind of
changed my you know perspectivebecause basically, yeah, he just
sits there.
He's like I don't give a fuckthat this has, you know,
aspartame, that this has this,that this has, this has food
dyes, whatever.
I don't care that the costcochicken is in plastic and that
has microplastics or whatever Iused to do.
And then he names all the drugsand the crazy shit he would do,
just like the absurd amount ofdrugs and the ways he would take

(57:31):
them and the things he would doto take them.
And I just the comments of allthat were like this guy's doing
more to heal my food anxietythan anyone else.
And I'm like literally all he'ssaying is like I used to do a
bunch of drugs, this is fine andpeople are like resonating with
this.
So I'm like I I just kind ofthink like so people just kind
of need humor and to be toldit's fine, and that's kind of

(57:54):
what I've shifted a little bittoo.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
Isn't it such an interesting perspective that
someone can just say I used todo this many drugs, stop
freaking out about Cheetos.
It's somehow a refreshingmessage, because the fitness
industry has gone so far in theother direction.
It's funny that that has becomea voice of reason, because it
shouldn't be a voice.

Speaker 2 (58:17):
Listen, like the fucking.
The people on the other side,though, are just saying wild
outlandish shit and youunderstand, like what's that?
I don't fucking know words, butlike there's that thing where,
like when, what the amount ofenergy it takes to spew bullshit
?
it takes 10 times more energy toBrandolini's law there you go
that's a word I don't know butwe need to fight fire with fire,

(58:39):
is my thing, is what I'mthinking, because we can go.
Actually, we have this studythat shows what they're saying
is incorrect.
No one gives a shit, they'rescrolling away, but you have a
dude just saying, like I did abunch of drugs, I take this, I'm
fine, I eat this food, it'sokay.
People are like, yes, that'swhat I need.
I think we need to fight firewith fire.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
So I just so we have to all go take a bunch of drugs
so that we can make videossaying that we took drugs.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
I'm not saying that's true or not.
I will leave it to yourdiscretion.

Speaker 3 (59:06):
I think the way you've described that is
actually really important,because if someone can get 5
million views because they'restanding in a grocery store
saying this food is killing you,yeah, and someone like me might
make a video with 100,000 viewssaying actually, no, it's not.
Here is the research.
Why?

(59:27):
Yeah, I'm not winning thatbattle.

Speaker 2 (59:29):
No, you're losing, we are losing.
Yeah, we have to admit thatwe're losing and we have to try
things.

Speaker 3 (59:35):
And I think it's like .
I think one of the ways to it'slike.
It's like fear porn where let'ssay, I pick up, I pick up a
food and I'm like here's a foodin a supermarket.
If I say, look, this cake isnot the healthiest thing in the
world, like you know, ideally,you know, 10% or less should be
added sugar in your diet.

(59:55):
Because added sugar, blah, blah, blah, it's like, oh boring, if
I go, this food is killing you.
Yeah, like.

Speaker 2 (01:00:02):
Sugar.
High fructose corn syrup.

Speaker 3 (01:00:04):
Right Of government chemicals.
It's much easier to grabsomeone's attention by saying
this is killing you, this ispoisoning you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:18):
This is whatever than saying pharma, yeah, you know
don't eat a lot of this that'swhy even athlean x half his
videos are this is killing yourgains, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's
like as a famous on youtube.
On youtube for doing all sortsof exercise stuff, but like,
yeah, a lot of it is.
I mean it's I don't know theexact word, but like you know,
it's, it's just over the top,it's, it's, you's, you know it's
to get the thumbnails.

Speaker 3 (01:00:34):
It was.
I remember seeing a video agesago, mr Beast, like literally
the most popular social mediaperson, like if someone knows
how to make social media content, it's him, and one of the
things that he said is he's likethe first line has to be
extreme.
You have to make it extreme.
Extreme is what grabs people'sattention.
So saying like if you had twocues, which cue do you want to

(01:00:58):
join?
And it's like one person isselling you healthy habits, or
like sensible nutrition advice,and then the other one is like
five secrets for a six pack, orthis food is killing you, or
whatever.
You have to.
Extreme is what grabs people'sattention.
It's the equivalent of uh, Ithink everyone, lots of people
joke about uh, newspaperheadlines.

(01:01:18):
They, you know, newspapers talkgarbage.
There's most people think thatthe media aren't trustworthy.
Now, um, but newspaperheadlines are designed to grab
people's attention and that'sthe same thing that social media
videos are doing.
They're just doing it in a wayand people aren't quite
realizing.
That is why so many people aregoing down the fear-mongering
route is because someone likepaul saladino that goes broccoli

(01:01:42):
is bullshit, what?

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
and if you make a video saying, um actually,
that's just, it's not, it's notthe fact, yeah, it's not gonna
have the same effect.
If you make a video saying, umactually, that's just, it's not,
it's not the fact, yeah, it'snot gonna have the same effect,
if you're like so, for a subsetof people.

Speaker 3 (01:01:56):
consuming a lot of broccoli might elevate your
health risk of this condition.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
People are watching all of that.
How many more minutes of thisNine minutes I'm in?
What do you?

Speaker 3 (01:02:05):
got?
Did you say subset?
I'm already bored.
If you go, go, broccoli iskilling you like.
Oh my god, that is.
That's what we're up against.

Speaker 2 (01:02:14):
That's the tidal wave of social media I think it's
just like there was a guy whostitched uh one of like, uh,
paul's aldino's videos.
It was like when he was in thegrocery store, shirtless,
talking about seed oils, and hehad like a whole video where
he's just like can you imagine,do you just have the worst
fucking day at work.
Your boss is riding your assand you're just fucking

(01:02:34):
exhausted and you go to thestore because your wife tells
you you're out of chips and yougo to the.
You go to the chip section andyou see, shirtless, tarzan here
yelling about seed oils, seedoils.
Could you fucking imagine howmuch worse your day becomes?
Like it was this whole thing.
It blew up and people you knowlike resonate more with that and
I'm like that is going to dojust as much, if not more, than

(01:02:56):
just saying, um, actually,because I think people know like
, most people know like thisstuff is is nonsense.
Or, if they don't know, justmaking fun of it.
We'll, we'll get them to, to toyour side.
So basically, I, I just I justrapid fire now through a bunch
of the nonsense videos and justmake like quick joke after quick
joke because like that's,that's gonna do just as much, if
not more, than being like yeah,I haven't learned that lesson

(01:03:19):
yet.

Speaker 3 (01:03:20):
I'm like slowly learning that lesson.
I still, I still, I'm very muchuh, I try and give people
science because in my head I I'mnot.
I'm not trying to grow myaccount as much as possible.
I've never been somebody who'slike trying to go viral.
I know I have a biggerfollowing than most people like
statistically speaking, but I'vealso been on social media since

(01:03:41):
2009.
Like, that's a very long timefor most people as well.
I'm not trying to get the mostnumber of followers.
I'm just trying to be thatperson where, if someone came up
to me in the gym and they'relike I saw this thing I don't
know if it's true Can you tellme if it's true?
I'm just literally doing thatstill.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
So I think if I was trying to get to millions of
followers as quickly as possible, I would definitely change my
style, but at the moment I'mlike I just I kind of enjoy it
For me, but at the moment I'mlike I just I kind of for me,
like sure, like getting morefollowers and views it leads to
more success, blah blah blah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
That's all great.
It's still like I know whatyou're saying.
It's not necessarily aboutfollowers, it's about impact.

Speaker 2 (01:04:16):
I do understand the impact that you can have is just
, my impact is going to besmaller if I do the um actually
than if I'm just like hey, it'scool because I get so many
people messaging me saying, likeyou know, you helped with my
food anxiety just being able tolaugh about it and joke about it
, because of how ridiculous is Iwas literally worried about all
these you know seed oils andMSG and everything, and just
being able to like joke about itis help them.

(01:04:37):
So I'm like I have it's a tradeoff.
You know I'm trying to get like.
You know I want to get a littlescience in behind that, but
like it's it, just it doesn'treach the same not to mention
your personal mental health andthe enjoyment of making those
videos I seriously yeah I muchprefer being like stupid dumb.

Speaker 3 (01:04:56):
Haha joke, let's move on yeah, I mean like myth
busting content is uh, I, Iwouldn't say it's, I wouldn't
say it's fun to make a lot ofpeople like sometimes people
think to make what's yourfunnest.

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
Ben, what's your funnest thing to make besides
your pickleball content?
That's coming out soon?

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
I, I enjoy, I love getting tagged in things that
excite me, like certain videotopics that excite me, so I can
get tagged in in a video wheresomeone's like uh, like there's
a video from a channel calledkurtzka's act where they were
talking about, like, theconstrained model of energy
expenditure.
I get excited by that.
So I'm like I very rarely eversee someone making videos on

(01:05:36):
this topic and they're veryrarely ever good.
So I'm like I want to make avideo on that topic.
So like that excites me.
But I also know that that's thetype of topic that a tiny
percentage of people really careabout People aren't caring for
the constrained model of energyyeah, it's not high on the
google searches when it comes to, like, fitness advice, um.
But occasionally I'll get angrycomments from people where

(01:05:59):
they'll say things like you'rejust responding to other
people's comments because you'rejust trying to talk down on
people, or whatever, whatever,whatever.
Or like you're just trying toelevate your name above other
people's Like, if you honestlythink that's why I'm making this
content, you are looking atthis so backwards, because
making myth-busting content isnot fun.
There is not a single day thatgoes by where, if I didn't read

(01:06:20):
my notifications on everyplatform, I am not being
insulted by at least one person.
Because if I come in and sayhere's an example.
There was a podcast clip fromhuberman lab and the person who
was on the podcast was wasquoting a study and they got the
numbers wrong.
They got the numbers reallywrong enough to the point where

(01:06:41):
they were saying, uh, this groupgained weight and the actual
study that they had cited they'dcited it in the show notes just
showed that wasn't the case,and I was like this is an
important fact check.
So I literally said this is howmisinformation spreads.
Here are the numbers he'sclaiming, here are what the
actual numbers said, and in myhead.
That's a service, becausepeople are like I want to know
what's true.

(01:07:01):
Whether you enjoy that podcastor not, that's not the point,
because you can enjoy it and gooh, actually, that he had
misquoted that.
You know, I want to learn and Iwant what I consume to be
accurate.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
I'm sure we've misquoted a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
Yeah, like it happens , and someone could really
really love this podcast.
But if I said something wrongon it and someone else corrected
me, that's good, because it itteaches people that what I said
was wrong and therefore you'reputting better information out
to the masses.
But just off that video, theamount of hate and insults and

(01:07:32):
stuff that I got because I wascorrecting someone they liked
it's never ending.
Every single day I will have atleast one person insulting me
on one social media platform andliving with that for years of
your life is fairly draining.

Speaker 1 (01:07:49):
So I think myth busting content.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
People often think that it's like, oh, you're just
doing it because you want to bepopular or whatever.
No, there were so much easierways to do it oh yeah, oh okay,
hear me out.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
What about?
All right, you got to keep anopen mind for this one.
Can we keep an open mind?
Like you were just gonna tryand shut me down immediately.
Let's keep a little open mindat the beginning.

Speaker 3 (01:08:10):
Okay, I'm worried I'll meet my microphone for like
20 seconds and I'll have tomull it over.

Speaker 2 (01:08:16):
Hear me out here.
So you did a whole video on um.
I forget which celebrity it was.
I think there's that the ladyfrom friends or whatever.
There was like ai.
It took her and she was likeselling a product that she
wasn't actually selling.
So they used AI to make her saythings she wasn't actually
saying.
What if we take celebrities andwe do the opposite and we give
good information?

(01:08:36):
We just steal their likenessand we have like Hugh Jackman
out there giving good,reasonable advice and because
people love celebrities, so wejust take that and we fight and
we have them correct the falseinformation and we have a
celebrity's face.
So it'll get more views.

Speaker 3 (01:08:56):
Because you've asked me to have an open mind.
I'm not going to shoot it down.
So here's the thing, right.
I legit think that is a fineidea with an asterisk that is
quite, quite clearly illegal.
Done as no.
No, I was going to say quiteclearly, done as a joke, like if
we made the ai so bad, like ifyou had a photo of hugh jackman,

(01:09:18):
and you superimposed your mouthlike south park style yeah,
yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:24):
If you made it so ridiculous, I legit think that
could work I think that I'vedone that with bobby, except I
didn't have him uh say anythingsmart I, I just had him do be
stupid right, yeah, was it didthe video go well, I can't
remember.

Speaker 3 (01:09:40):
I think we, I think we need to try this we take the
celebrities right.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
We have their mouths moves and you know, and it's,
it's over the top and ridiculousand meant to be, but we have
them, like you know, actuallygive decent information and like
correct things on on online.
I think that would be a veryweird but successful way of
combat.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
I feel like that might actually be worth a go.
I would.
I would try that once, like,for example, if uh, if I do a
video on hugh jackman's physiquebecause someone's asked me
about Hugh Jackman's physique,if I replied with Hugh Jackman.

Speaker 2 (01:10:13):
Yes, and he's like actually I got this by you know,
taking performance, enhancingdrugs.
We don't make him say thatbecause that's so hot water, but
like we actually get, we sayyou know, just give good advice,
we just use Hugh Jackman.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
I am legit Like OK, I have all the tools, I have done
this.

Speaker 3 (01:10:30):
I'm like I'm so going to do this.
I would, I would, I would tryit, as long as it was clear that
we weren't genuinely trying toimpersonate someone.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
Oh yeah, no, you got to put all the disclaimers and
stuff in there.

Speaker 3 (01:10:43):
And if it was, if it was on a topic where I feel like
the person who's talking isactually the person that should
be talking like if I'm making avideo about hugh jackman's
physique and it's hugh jackmantalking like that makes sense,
definitely worth doing I thinkthis could work.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
I think this could work.
Listen, we come up with goodideas on this podcast.
Wait till you hear.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
Oh yeah, we haven't told uh ben about our alpha
water I was just thinking wecould get, we could make
somebody sell alpha water for usoh, ben would be pretty good at
that, like because everybodytrusts him, so maybe we can get
him to sell alpha water.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
So okay, so we're selling alpha water and the
tagline is I ain't no beta bitch, because I ain't no beta bitch,
and then it's gonna be, uh,with patented cell integration,
and it's yeah, and it's, it's,it's special water hydrates you
better if, if people can buyliquid death water because it's
got fancy marketing, people canbuy alpha water, alpha water

(01:11:36):
alpha water.
I'm telling you, alpha waterwould fucking kill it.
We get, we get.
We get chem thug to work on thescience of it all.
We get then to sell it.

Speaker 1 (01:11:44):
We got this we are gonna be making money.
You can move to california,california.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
I can afford health care.

Speaker 1 (01:11:51):
Oh yeah, that's a thing down there, isn't it?
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:11:53):
shit.
I'll tell you this oh shit,Since quitting my job, I don't
have fucking health care.
We just roll in with it.
That's the American way Hopefor the best.

Speaker 3 (01:12:03):
One hospital appointment away from bankruptcy
.

Speaker 2 (01:12:06):
Only in America where you can go.
It is so you can go into debtor you can.

Speaker 3 (01:12:10):
You lose everything because of crippling medical
debt I, when I moved here I'mnot even joking someone said to
me just as an fyi, if you getinto like an accident or
something, if you can, can youget an uber to hospital?
And I laughed and they said oh,like I'm being serious, because
an ambulance here can cost likefour or five thousand dollars,
oh, easily.
And I still thought they werejoking and they were like no,

(01:12:31):
honestly, if you can get an uberto a hospital or a taxi, I've
had friends jump out ofambulances as they were taking
them to the hospital.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
I mean that can't be good for your health.
It's neither is being incrippling medical debt.
How are you gonna afford things?
Oh shit.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
Well, when I learned the uh cost of having a child
down there.
I, that's, that's a moment.
I thought you were.
People were joking.
I was like what, no having?

Speaker 3 (01:13:00):
a having a miscarriage is unfortunately
expensive as well.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
One of my friends learned recently doubly painful
geez man, but I'm glad we we'reending here on a, on a high note
this is great.

Speaker 1 (01:13:13):
Well, you know what?
I may be in the middle ofnowhere and it may be snowing
here, but hey, at least I canbreak a leg and not have to
worry about paying for it.
This is very true.

Speaker 2 (01:13:22):
Was there anything else, ben, that you wanted to
touch on that?
You know anything I'm?

Speaker 1 (01:13:27):
I'm not at all, I'm just here, here to chat yeah, I
mean I think we've, I thinkwe've covered most of the topics
for the day I think, I think wewe covered everything and we
got to.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
Even though ben doesn't want to plug his book, I
will plug it for him.

Speaker 3 (01:13:42):
Okay, fat loss habits , diets don't work habits, I'm
like I'm like, if people listento a podcast, I just like it was
just felt like it was sellingsomething.
I was like, well, what a way tomake the listener feel like
shit, like oh, it was just an ad, that you know those podcasts
where it's just you know, I'mlike I just I would much prefer

(01:14:02):
to have a really goodconversation.
Yeah, people like me, they'llfollow me.

Speaker 1 (01:14:06):
When we started the podcast, I was listening to some
of our you know, quote unquotecompetition.
One of them was Courtney Swan.
Courtney Swan, thank you, yeah,Her podcast.
And it's like it opens with 10minute of ads.
Middle is 10 minute of ads.
I couldn't even get through theepisode because there were so

(01:14:27):
many ads.
We might have had another 10minutes worth at the end and I
was like, yeah, we are nevergoing to do this.

Speaker 2 (01:14:33):
Yeah, yeah, we sell us alpha water.

Speaker 3 (01:14:35):
Yeah, I'm not, just not an ad person.
Give people good qualityservice.
If they want to support you,they'll support you yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:14:59):
But fortunately our listeners know that we're not
about, but that is why none ofus are millionaires.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Yeah, pretty much sounds great, but we're all poor
.
So listen, but we have fun.
Man, like it's, you know yougotta have fun with it.
I listen, I can, I listen.
I could easily be like thefun-loving hobo you know that
travels around with a stick andit's got like the little bag
with everything they own.
But like you're still happy,you know you're still jovial.
I could totally be that guy.

Speaker 1 (01:15:14):
Yeah, yeah I feel like I should dub in some uh uh
god damn what's his name I'mblanking on it um the guy who
did whistle stop for robin hoodwhat Are you making up words now
.

Speaker 2 (01:15:29):
That's way too niche, way too niche for me.
I just wanted to leave with theending message of being a hobo
ain't so bad.

Speaker 1 (01:15:36):
Roger Miller.
Roger Miller.

Speaker 2 (01:15:38):
Sure Totally.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
Roger Miller's, his hobo song.

Speaker 3 (01:15:45):
Wow, I am blanking hard today?

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
I have no idea.

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
You guys don't know, I think you're just making shit
up and trying to make us feellike we're dumb for not knowing.
You're made up words uh, I'mout.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
If you guys don't know who roger miller is, I'm
out well, listen, I don't knowanything.

Speaker 2 (01:16:02):
You told me about that fucking brant bram stoker's
law or whatever it was.
I don't know.
Come on, I'm just a clown onthe internet that makes jokes
and just moves things along.
That's that's.
That's what I got it works.

Speaker 1 (01:16:16):
Now what's?
What's the definition for bramstoker's law?

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
bram stoker uh, uh, don't get a steak through the
heart.
Uh, garlic's bad.
Wait, that's the vampire thing,bram stoker's?
No, am I thinking of?

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
bram stoker is dracula, yeah dracula.

Speaker 2 (01:16:33):
Right, yeah, so there's like it's a vampire
thing.
Okay, cool, just making sure I,I, I don't know, I don't know
anything we're.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
We suck at making up laws, apparently good at
breaking them.
So where can you everyone findyou, ben?

Speaker 3 (01:16:45):
probably the same platforms that you're on.

Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
Leave it that's it if they want to find me.

Speaker 3 (01:16:49):
They can.
I'm friends with you on them.

Speaker 2 (01:16:51):
Just scroll social media and hope he pops up
eventually.
Just consume so much bullshitcontent that you eventually
follow these videos.

Speaker 3 (01:16:58):
Pop my name in, you'll probably find it.
That's fine, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
That works, this most humble guest we've had.

Speaker 2 (01:17:05):
Oh man.

Speaker 3 (01:17:06):
I'll take it.
I'm happy with that.
Oh man, I'll take it.
I'm happy with that.
I'm just happy to be here.
I don't care, I'm not even aplug person, I'm just happy to
be here leah madge go turn his.

Speaker 1 (01:17:15):
Oh, is it getting ugly?
No, no, I just try to turn thelight on.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
It's dark as shit in this room, but like moving
straight up, moving from likeengland to america must have
been weird, I don't know Ithought you were saving money on
electricity in there, like yourroom looked like London during
the Blitz.
Man, I mean, I feel like inEurope, in the Europes, you got
England right there you can justgo visit other countries just
from a day travel, and then yougo to the United States.

Speaker 3 (01:17:41):
Yeah, but where we are, for the sake of a two-hour
drive, we can go to the desert,or we can go skiing, or we can
go to Mexico.
So go to like the desert, or wecan go skiing or we can go to
mexico.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
So I feel like we still have a lot of flexibility,
um, in terms of we still got amenu here, we still got enough
geographical locations they'rejust all named the same still
what?

Speaker 2 (01:18:01):
I'm curious what other things you notice.
Okay, so portion sizes.
We eat like you know, we, weeat a lot, got that.
Anything else you noticed?
Just moving to America.

Speaker 3 (01:18:10):
Yeah, your grocery stores have too many people
filming in them.
I have to say grocery stores,but we'd say supermarkets in
England the first time I camehere, even small ones like
Walgreens instead of Walmart.
Every time I went food shoppingit would take me ages, because
the number of items you have onthe shelf are wild.

(01:18:34):
So like, as an example, okay,okay, I remember going to your
frozen waffle section and I waslike how do you have a frozen
waffle section in england?
If you want frozen waffles, yougo and buy the frozen waffles,
whereas in the store that I I'min it's like oh, do you want
chocolate, do you want blueberry, do you want organic, do you
want gluten-free, do you wantthis, do you want that?

(01:18:55):
And it's like a whole sectionLike your cereal aisle.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
Do you want it a dinosaur shape?
Would you like smiley faces,would you like?

Speaker 3 (01:19:03):
It's like your cereal aisle.
I don't think people realizehow many options america has.
Like you can have cereal, so doyou want marshmallows in it?
Do you want it chocolate filled?
Do you want a chocolate protein?
Do you want?
Do you want it to bemulti-colored, do you?
Yeah, do you want it to bestuffed with protein?
Like, do you want it indifferent shapes?

(01:19:23):
Do you want, like your, thenumber of foods you have in,
like your snack food aisle andaisles like that.
It's incredible.
Like there are foods that Ijust didn't realize existed
until I came here and becausethey exist now they're in my
psyche and I have to try them,like fruit loops, for example.

(01:19:44):
I don't even know what fruitloops are, but when I see them
I'm like gotta try them.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
They look fancy that's how they get.
You need to try canadian.

Speaker 3 (01:19:52):
They are better than american ones yeah, there's the,
the whole food, I think but,that's how they permeate your
psychology.
Well, it's not even the foodthey actually do taste better
what the?

Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
canadian ones.
The canadian ones, yeah, I'llhave, it's not hard fruit loops
taste fucking dreadful.

Speaker 3 (01:20:06):
I tried them and they are awful, absolutely awful, so
like.
Here's an easy example of thisright Is my wife is Korean, her
family are Korean.
One of their biggestcompliments when they try
dessert is oh, this is nice,it's not too sweet.
Because American foods are sosweet compared to where they're
from that most things that theytry they're like I can't eat

(01:20:29):
this, it is too much, whereasI'm somewhere in the middle.
So if I try a korean dessert,it's so a lot of them are so
barely sweet that I didn't evenrealize they were desserts.
I was eating a korean dessertand I thought it was savory
because the sugar content was solow, whereas in america it's so
sweet that they're like I justcan't eat that and I'm somewhere
in the middle for me.

Speaker 1 (01:20:49):
The first time I walked into a grocery store in
the us, I saw a guy with a gunand I was like the fuck.

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
Yeah, guards everywhere yeah, yeah, man, it's
crazy.
When I was in high school wehad like we had like police and
and with dogs like walking thehalls at our high school, metal
detectors and shit.

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
That was a trick in high school we got to leave the
campus and go get drunk.
The canadian way had some uhschnapps with maple syrup that
sounds.

Speaker 2 (01:21:22):
That sounds really sweet.
Oh, that does not sound good.
I don't like the sound of thatat all, uh oh man.
Well you know, everything's gotto be maple syrup up here, yeah
but I will say, ben, Idefinitely like I I appreciate
your content a lot because itdoes more of like you do a lot
more of like the deep dives andgo, go into things you know like

(01:21:42):
.
I could definitely tell theamount of time to like look up
each of those things and all theall the studies and everything
that goes into it.
I'm just like man that's.
That's a lot of work and it iskind of impressive, just for
like thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:21:55):
I once made a video like responding to some
misinformation and I realizedthat it had taken me about 20
hours just because it, justbecause it like firstly, if, if
a video is, let's say, threeminutes long, obviously I've got
to watch it and pick which bitsI'm going to respond to, then
go through.

(01:22:15):
It's not just finding theresearch studies, it's going to
the time of of taking thescreenshots of certain snippets
and highlighting it to make iteasier.
Because if you just say that'snot true research shows, it's
not true, that takes 10 seconds.
But if you're like researchshows that's not true, and
here's a research study andhere's another research study
and I'm snipping this sectionand I'm highlighting this
section, suddenly that 10seconds turns into five minutes

(01:22:36):
or whatever.
And when I made a video that'slike, say, five minutes long,
with sometimes 15 differentresearch papers in them, I
realized it took me about 20hours.
And 20 hours even if even if100 000 views to most people on
social media is a really goodvideo, like, most people aren't
getting 100 000 views on a videobut 20 hours to get 100 000

(01:22:59):
views.
There are much faster ways toget 100 000 views, but debunking
content is fun.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
Yes, it's exhausting, it's absolutely.
Yes, it is, I also justremembered something.

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
Um, for there was a quite a while there, a little
bit after I discovered you, ben,where I was consciously making
the effort to do topics that youweren't talking about, because
I didn't want to look as like Iwas a copycat of you.
I, so that's actually part ofthe reason that for a long time
I about because I didn't want tolook as like I was a copycat of
you.

Speaker 3 (01:23:31):
I.
So that's actually part of thereason that for a long time I
didn't, I didn't follow peoplewho would made similar videos,
because I didn't like.
I didn't like seeing someone'svideo and then thinking, oh, I
was going to do a video on thattopic because it's just you know
.
But then I realized that that'salso in some ways being a bit
silly, because I prefer to havefriends, you know, be social

(01:23:52):
people and have friends and justgo, you know what?
I don't, I'm not going to dothat video.
So sometimes, if one of you guysmake a video on something, I
might say, actually I'm notgoing to do it because I don't
want to look like.
You know, there are some peoplewho, if you make a video on
something they are going to tomake a video afterwards, it's
like you've, you've alerted them, you've put it on their radar,

(01:24:13):
and then all of a sudden otherpeople start doing it, and I've
never wanted to be one of thosepeople.
So, uh, yeah, I try not to dothe same videos that other
people are doing, um, or I justtry and do them faster.

Speaker 1 (01:24:26):
Do them faster.
It only takes you 20 hours whenit takes the other person 21
hours, yeah but because of my,because of my book.

Speaker 3 (01:24:33):
my book has now um afforded me the luxury where
this is my full-time thing.
So, because that is paying formy lifestyle, if I'm tagged in a
video now, I can make the videonow.
I don't have to have afull-time job and then be like I
need to get to it tomorrowbecause I've got a busy schedule
, so it's easier.
I have to have a full-time joband then be like I need to get
to it tomorrow because I've gota busy schedule, so it's easier.
I have, I have the privilege ofgetting to videos faster and

(01:24:56):
start making videos faster, evenif they take me longer to reply
to Right, yeah, I know, I'mstuck editing podcasts.

Speaker 2 (01:25:04):
I just yeah, I have a lot of respect for that and the
amount of time and everythingthat goes into it.
I just for me, like the way Ilook at it, it's just like I was
saying before.
It's just people just want theinformation of, like, what works
, what they need to do, and it'skind of and it is tough because
everyone's different and youcan't just tell them exactly

(01:25:25):
every person it's going to bedifferent the things they need
to do.
You know, depending everyperson it's it's going to be
different the things they needto do.
You know depending.
But like, yeah, in general, likethe super basic shit, like
exercise, like moving your body,for pretty much everyone, like
that's good.
And you know, like generallyeating more, mostly like whole

(01:25:46):
nutritious foods, like that's,that's good.
So I'm like's good.
So I'm like those two things.
How do I get those two thingsacross to people as punchy and
humorous and you know, just intheir face, as as as possible?
And that's kind of just likewhat I've been just mulling
around for the past, I don'tknow, year or so.

(01:26:06):
I was going to be like the pastsix episodes.
What.

Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
Past six episodes of the podcast.
You've been kind of mullingaround that.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
Yeah, I'm just trying to like I've been really just
trying to figure out, like howto get that just like yeah,
across to people.
Because what is you I'm sureyou know, ben like when you go
on like a deep dive on like somea very specific topic that's
just not going to reach as manypeople and it's just it's not as
I already know, that right.

Speaker 3 (01:26:32):
It's just not as useful to most people.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
It's not useful to most people, so I'm just trying
to get as much as good.

Speaker 3 (01:26:39):
I don't know whatever the fuck good is, but like
helpful information for mostpeople as possible, and then so
like as an example of that, uh,when I did a a couple of nights
ago, when I did a, an event at abookshop, just like a meet and
greet thing, yeah, um, my wifewas doing a q a with me and she
said, if there's like one habityou could get everyone doing,

(01:26:59):
what would it be?
Just one habit?
Yeah, and I said exercise,that's all I care about.
I said, throw my book in thetrash.
If you can get peopleexercising, don't even read the
book.
Um, I, if that's the one thingthat I could get more people
doing, I would do it.
And as an example of um, there'slike one research study, so a
couple of research studies, butone of the one research study

(01:27:20):
concluded that the percentage ofpeople that did aerobic and
resistance training to the pointthat they hit the guidelines
you know like are you doingaerobic training three times a
week or resistance training two,three times a week Was only 17%
of adults are doing both.
So it's pretty low.
Most people aren't doing thatmuch exercise.
But there was another researchstudy that estimated that if you

(01:27:43):
can get American adults toexercise for 10, 20 or 30
minutes a day, it doesn'tnecessarily have to be vigorous,
but just 10 minutes a day, youcould prevent over 100,000
deaths, preventable deaths, justfor the sake of 10 minutes of
exercise a day.
So I'm like all the other stuff.
A lot of it is just noise.
If you could get people doingone thing, I would love to get

(01:28:06):
more people exercising.

Speaker 1 (01:28:08):
That's it, and that's something drifters never say
Put nutrition to one side.

Speaker 3 (01:28:13):
Let's stop arguing about food.
Diets Like eating Froot Loopsoccasionally is going to do fuck
all for your health in terms ofthe long term.
It's like one speed bump on along car journey.
It might seem like it makes adifference, but in the grand
scheme of things it's irrelevant.
But getting more people toexercise could make a huge
impact on the health of society.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
let's just do that yeah, like I've just filmed.
Like one video I got filmedtoday was, um, I forget her name
, but she's she does a bunch ofstuff.
She was saying there's like astudy recently showing that, um,
this was for like helpingpeople with like diabetes and
helping with like glycemiccontrol, but that doing uh, 10
body weight squats every 45minutes um, help their uh

(01:28:57):
glycemic control more than likea third, than a, like a
prolonged walk, just likespreading it out a little bit
here and there, so activatingyour muscles throughout the day,
basically, is just better.
So I'm just talking about that,like, literally, if you have a
desk job, if you can get up andmove, walk some sort of body
weight squat.
If, listen, if somebody, if Iwas in a meeting, someone's like

(01:29:18):
, hey, I'm doing body weightsquats for my health.
I'm like I'm fucking joiningyou, I'm in like that's.

Speaker 1 (01:29:22):
You know if you're like that's weird.
I'm gonna shit that'd be anawesome company to work for I
feel like you.

Speaker 2 (01:29:28):
You got to make people more comfortable, less
uncomfortable with the idea thatyou can just exercise randomly
and it's totally fine.
Be okay with being weird, right?
Because I think we're just.
You get stuck with the norms.
You say portion sizes oh, I getused to normal portion sizes.
You get stuck with the norms,like.

(01:29:49):
You say portion sizes oh, I getused to normal portion sizes.
The norm is I sit on my deskfor eight hours and I just do my
work, and then I drive home andI Uber Eats my large portion to
my house and that's it.
So how can you just branchoutside of that?

Speaker 1 (01:30:02):
And getting people to do that is hard.
It would be so hard for me tohave a desk job at a company
because I like to get up everyso often and do a little
something.
But most like you said that'sthat's stigmatized in the
workplace right, getting up andwalking around.

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
I'm saying like, yeah , if you were just like, I'm
gonna go just do body weightsquats.
People are like what the fuckis tim doing?
Holy shit, why is he so weird?
Like, can we fire him?
But like and that sort of thing, like I don't know, just trying
to get you know, trying to getthat basic idea across to people
Just any movement, anything.

Speaker 1 (01:30:36):
I'm pretty sure this is so far the second longest
podcast we've had.

Speaker 2 (01:30:40):
Oh, are we still recording?
I thought we were done a whileago.
Should we wrap?

Speaker 1 (01:30:43):
it up here, or should I cut it back somewhere?
I thought we wrapped it upthere.

Speaker 2 (01:30:46):
See, I thought we were just ending it there and
now we were talking after he didhis pluggables.

Speaker 1 (01:30:50):
I don't know, because it was still good talking, but
yeah, you can add it if you want.

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):
I would just throw that up on the Patreon or
whatever people would talk tothat.
I just kind of wanted tochit-chat about stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:30:58):
Whatever, we'll have a look at it when I'm editing Do
you need an official wrap-up.

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