Matt Barnes: Why Success Is Built on Failure, Resilience, and Hard Work | E152 - In Search Of Excellence

Episode Transcript
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Matt Barnes (00:00):
Principal didn't believe you on the KKK tried to

(00:02):
burn down your school. My sistercomes to me again for the second
time, crying with a couple ofher girlfriends, and I can see
the spit in her hair. And I'mlike, what happened? She's like,
you know, this boy called me anick spit on me, and I got my
hands on him, and I heard himwhile I'm suspended, they come
and vandalize a school, hang amannequin from the oak tree with
my football jersey on a diet,watched it goes everywhere. The

(00:22):
one thing that I was so thankfulfor was that she got to see me
play. She was on the other endof, you know, for me to get an
opportunity,

Randall Kaplan (00:29):
you didn't really tear up when you're back
there in your hometown and, youknow, you got your kids

there. It's bittersweet, Randy, to be honest
with you, because I've alwaysbeen someone that nothing was
ever handed to me. I didn'tnecessarily feel like I earned
that ring because I got hurtgoing into the playoffs. So I
shot the ball three or fourseconds left, and after I hit
it, there was 1.1 so I actually,I technically shot the ball so
early. But the funny part was,and, you know, I went there and

(00:54):
I saw these guys kind ofcollapsing on me,

walk, Welcome to In Search of Excellence, where
we meet entrepreneurs, CEOs,entertainers, athletes,
motivational speakers andtrailblazers of excellence, with
incredible stories from allwalks of life. My name is
Randall Kaplan. I'm a serialentrepreneur, venture capitalist
and the host of In Search ofExcellence, which I started to
motivate and inspire us toachieve excellence in all areas
of our lives. My guest today ismy friend Matt Barnes. Matt is a

(01:25):
former professional basketballplayer who spent 14 seasons in
the NBA. He's been an NBAanalyst for ESPN Fox and NBC
Sports. Is the co host of thevery popular podcast all the
smoke is the subject of theincredible documentary
revolution, and is the star ofthe reality TV show the Barnes
bunch. Matt is also the founderof athletes versus cancer, which

(01:45):
he started after losing hismother to the disease 17 years
ago. Matt, thanks for beinghere. Welcome to In Search of
Excellence. Thank you for havingme. Long time coming. We've been
trying to connect for a while.
I'm glad we were able to well,I'm super excited for you to be
here. Yeah, let's start withyour family. You were born in
San Jose, biracial family. Dad,Henry was black. Mom, Ann was
white. You grew up very poor onfood stamps. You had holes in

(02:05):
your socks and shoes. Talk to usabout the night you were seven
years old looking out the windowand what you saw with these
undercover cops and whathappened with your family at
that point. You guys did yourresearch, huh? Yeah, I was, you
know, very mixed neighborhood.
Growing up in San Jose, blackfather, Italian mom, and my dad

(02:28):
was a provider. Mom was a stayat home mom. So my dad would be
a butcher by day, and in theevenings, he would hit the
streets and, you know, selldrugs and make ends meet for our
family the particular night youwere talking about

two guys that you know was working for him, came
to the house and tried to robus, and in the window,
literally, as a child, I see mydad beat up two guys and take
guns from both of them. And veryshortly after that, we packed
the family up and headed toSacramento.

Let's go back, because the two guys arrived.
Your dad were cops, undercovercops, and so I read the story
about how he took their gunsfrom it's kind of hard if two
guys are pointing guns at themto actually take guns train
police officers both. Then Ithink he beat the shit out of
him

Unknown (03:20):
as well. Yes, my dad, man, grew up tough without love,
and I didn't realize that untila lot older, you know, my dad
and I didn't really see eye toeye until my mom passed. And I'm
sure we'll get there at somepoint. So my dad was just one of
those guys, obviously, in the80s, it was, you know, less
about guns and more just kind ofabout fighting, and that was

(03:40):
something he thrived in. Youknow, we would go to the flea
markets on the weekends, andprobably three out of the four
times we went we, you know, hewould get in the fight. So it
was something he enjoyed to do,I guess, as a pastime. And,
yeah, I mean, literally, I'msitting, I'm sitting in the
curtain. So for me to this blackstage right here, I'm kind of
seeing what's going on. And didyou hear the commotion? No,

(04:02):
we'll just we I went to thewind. You know, I'm following my
dad around, so I went to thewindow, and he was an unexpected
not sisters are with my sister,but my sister. So if I'm so, my
sister's maybe three or two.
She's two years older than mybrother, yeah, so my sister's
about five. So just following mydad around and peeking through
the window, being a nosy kid,and just kind of seeing all this
happen so fast, and the factthat he was able to do that

(04:23):
unscathed was

crazy. Did you know at some point your dad was,

I didn't really understand big drug dealer. I
mean, not huge, you know, Ithink you know when, when, when,
you know when you're younger,everything is bigger than life.
He wasn't necessary. He was kindof a he was, you know, under
several people. But you know,when you're smaller, everything
is bigger than life. You knowwhat I mean. So I didn't
necessarily know what he wasdoing. But what I do remember

(04:49):
growing up in the 80s. I wasborn, literally in 1980 that we
always had the party house, youknow? I mean, so there would be,
you know, my parents werefunctioning drug addicts or. Or,
you know, use drug functioning.
Yeah, drug addicts may be theword. So we, oh, I saw a lot at
an early age. I saw, obviously,it being used and sold and but
didn't necessarily understandthe magnitude, because it was

(05:12):
all I know. So I kind of thoughtit was normal

when you're five years old. What kind of kid are
you back then in that day? Um,

Unknown (05:19):
I'm a kid that's outside all the time. You know,
I have a five just turned six,and he doesn't, you know, kids
don't go outside anymore, whichis unfortunate for several
reasons. But I'm outside playingfrom the time I get out of
school until, you know, rightbefore it starts to get dark,
and a bunch of neighborhood kidsand just in the mischief, you
know, we're playing in the creekand we're hopping the fence over
by the freeway. We're playingfootball, we're playing tag,

(05:42):
we're riding bikes. So justjust, I think, a normal five
year old kid in the 80s, thenight

of the beat up the undercover cop stash, you
guys ran into u haul, yes, youmoved to Sacramento, yeah, back
then it was basically all white,mostly white, cow town, farm
town, yeah, and you're eightyears old, you're in the third
grade, you get to this all whiteschool, and then a lot of racism
happens. You tell us about a

Unknown (06:08):
ton of racism. First of all, when I get to this new
school, I don't obviouslyunderstand that where I was
coming from, I guess the theeducation wasn't up to par,
because I went to this newschool and I went from it was, I
think it was second grade orthird grade, back to the
kindergarten class. So I'm thisbig old kid with little, tiny
kids, and I'm seeing myclassmates go to recess, and I'm

(06:29):
in there writing my letters. I'mlike, What the hell is going on
in here? You know what I mean?
So obviously, educationally, Iwasn't up to par When I got to
here, when I got to Sacramento,but yeah, racism from the jump,
unfortunately and for me again,being Italian and black, I grew
up in a very mixed, biracialarea in San Jose, so when we
came to Sacramento, Myneighborhood was still mixed,
but the schools that my parentsput me and I went to two

(06:53):
elementary schools, Cambridge,heights and Charles Peck, they
were predominantly white, and Inever understood at The time. I
never liked it. I neverunderstood until I got older, I
think, why they did it. Butracism from the jump, so eight,
nine years old, being callednigger and not being allowed to
play particular games. And I wasjust like, I was I was
devastated, because I'm justlike, what? Like, I love sports,

(07:14):
love being outside, but I wasn'table to play these games because
of the color of my skin.

When was the first time you heard that word,
um, what did you do when youheard it?

Unknown (07:25):
I didn't really know what to do at first, you know, I
chased the kids around. Iremember the first time it was
what it meant first. I didn'treally know what it meant, to be
honest with you. I mean, again,it wasn't something that was
flying around, because I was inin my old neighborhood. There
was, you know, Vietnamese, therewas blacks, there was Mexicans
that, you know, there was kindof a rainbow of kids. So not

(07:45):
necessarily knowing what itmeans, but I knew it was
something bad because the kidswere laughing, and when they
said it, they would run. So Iwould just chase them and try to
catch them. And it got so badthat I was fighting often and
getting in trouble at this newschool and getting suspended.
And I would, you know, and Ifinally told my parents what was
going on. And my mom was aconsoler and wanted to love and,

(08:07):
yeah, well, it got there becauseof what I'm about to tell you.
But my dad is, is old school,and, you know, disrespect is met
with combat, you know what Imean? So my dad would say, you
know, they call you nigga, fighthim. And my mom would, no,
that's not there. But I alwayslooked up to my dad from that
standpoint. So I started gettingin fights to kind of just, I

(08:29):
guess, demand my respect at ayoung age. I didn't know I was
demanding my respect, butobviously, you know, in
hindsight, looking back, that'swhat I was doing. And I was
getting in so many fights thatmy mom finally started coming to
the school, and she would watchme on my breaks. So, you know,
we had a little 15 minute break.
We'd have lunch, and then it'dbe a 15 minute break before
school got out. So she would bethere during recess. And again,

(08:49):
you know, charismatic, loving,loved kids. And you know, I
think maybe after a year or twoof her just kind of coming to
make sure I stay out ofmischief, they gave her a job as
a yard duty. So she started offkind of just watching us as
breaking at recess and ended upbeing a special ed teacher
before she ended up passing.

The first time you had dinner at a seated table
was with a white family, yes. Sotell us about that experience
and how you were feeling assomebody who had never had that.
Yeah,

Unknown (09:20):
I didn't, you know, again, I didn't know what I was
missing or what was going on,because to me, it was the norm
in San Jose. Everyone was prettysimilar. But when I started
going to these schools, andafter I kind of had to fight my
way to acceptance, I thought itwas a pretty cool, fun loving
kid, you know what I mean. So Istarted hanging out with some of
these kids and really becomingclose to some of them. And, you

(09:42):
know, being able to go to theirhouses and seeing their have
multiple cars and their own roomand video games like all this is
new to me. Like I didn't grow upwith any of this. So, yeah, the
first time I actually sat downat a family dinner table was
with a friend of mine, Jeff andhis family. And, you know, they
had all the. Food in the middleand past this and past that, I'm

(10:02):
just like, oh, okay, cool.

I have a scholarship student who was
raised in foster care, and whenI gave her the scholarship, it
was in for my grandmother, whowas raised in foster care as
well. So we it was hard toactually get her to come to the
restaurant, because she thoughtI was one of these guys online
trying to kidnapping, yeah, butwe, I was working with the

(10:26):
guidance counselor, and again,nothing good had happened to her
before ever I call her, youknow, get a free ride to
Michigan. It's

hard to understand the goal. Really, oh yeah, yeah.
Hung up on me,

yeah. Didn't believe it. So I had to call the
principal of the school, and itwas a whole thing to get her to
have a phone call, and it was awhole thing to get her to drive
to one hour drive fromUniversity of Michigan or from
high school. She was actually inLansing, living in her car. And
then she brought this guy todinner, a fancy dinner. She
never in a restaurant before, soshe looking around and didn't

(11:02):
know how to use the fork orknife, and you could tell it's
very intimidating for did youfeel intimidated?

I just kind of followed the lead, obviously,
being a kid, I didn't put thatmuch thought into it, as if I
was introduced to it, maybe as ateenager. But, you know, just
kind of follow the lead of myfriend and his brother and the
family was great. They acceptedme, you know what I mean? And
you know, one thing that wasjust tough for me was my parents
fought a lot, and it was a wayfor me to kind of escape the

(11:29):
noise and escape the violenceand the yelling and the abuse.
So I often kind of again, once Ikind of found my acceptance, I
would find friends that wouldn'tmind me staying the whole
weekend. Sometimes, you know, Iwould come home after school
with them Friday and not, youknow, go to school with them
Monday morning and then go backto school, excuse me, then go

(11:50):
home after that. So I was kindof always looking for a better
opportunity. I guess I got a,you know, a taste out of the
better life, and it wassomething that kind of really
piqued my interest and Ienjoyed. We love

our parents for better or for worse, most of us,
yeah, they have floss, yes, badflaws. Your dad was very violent
towards your mom. He beat yourmom, was arrested twice and went
to jail twice. Yeah, it was, howdid Did you ever see your dad
beat your mom and what? What wasyour reaction when you know,
physical with her? Luckily

I didn't see I would hear it, because I would
be, you know, up in my room atnight when they would I would
always hear the argument likethis, yes, like covering,
covering my head, or sometimeseven getting under my bed and
just kind of hoping that thiswould just stop, you know what I
mean? And, and, you know, themore you grow, the more you just
kind of understand the dynamics.
And it just sucked. You knowwhat I mean? And again, I didn't

(12:43):
really get to crack into my dad,into his mental until my mom
passed. You know, my mom, it'llit was, it was 17 years ago,
probably, like a week ago, thatshe had passed from cancer. And
when she had passed, I was inthe NBA at the time, right the
beginning of a season, and itwas the first time that, you
know, I saw my dad cry. It wasthe first time that He kind of
broke down and apologized to memy brother and sister, and my

(13:05):
sister was kind of the first oneto kind of dig into, you know,
kind of his, his, his, hischildhood, and understand that,
you know, he was beat by his momand fed dog food and had to
sleep on the floor like he had aterrible upbringing. So looking
at that situation and being alittle bit older, like
obviously, you know you forgiveand you forget and you forgive,

(13:26):
you never forget. But you know,to me, it was never too late to
be a father, because I felt likeat that point, when I lost my
mom, that I was gaining a dad,because he was starting to open
up to me for the first time mylife at 27 and just kind of
understanding the childhoodtrauma and abuse he had gone
through, and he had tried justtransfer that to, you know, his
family.

Let's go back to high school, and we're as males.
I'm not being chauvinistic aboutthis. We want to protect our
sisters or our family friends,every family, I mean, not
female, but it's usually not thefemale beating up the male,
protecting the female. Yeah.
Your sister had two incidences,yes, you know, she was riding

(14:08):
her bike, and someone called herbad word again. And then the
senior year, someone spit onher, yeah, and so you took
matters into your own handsagain, yeah. Second time you did
that, you got suspended for sixdays. Principal didn't believe
you had the KKK tried to burndown your school. Walk us
through that whole incident. Andagain, as a as a teenager,

(14:29):
getting a lot of fights. Whatare you thinking at that point?
Well,

luckily, the fights had kind of stopped after
Elementary School. I mean, theywere here and there, sprinkled
in through just kind of whatkids do in the neighborhood or
at school. But I was a senior. Iwas literally two months away
from going to UCLA, you know, astar. Yeah, I was the All
American football player, allAmerican basketball player. Just
really excited about what wasnext. You know, being from,

(14:57):
pretty much from a small town inSacramento, I hadn't seen much.
You know what I mean? So justexcited about the opportunity.
And my sister comes to me againfor the for the second time. The
first time she told me, youknow, go tell the principal, go
tell this, and hopefully they'llhandle it. They didn't. So the
second time she comes to me, I'ma senior, and I have an open
fourth so I'm done after mythird period. So she comes and
finds me and is crying with acouple of her girlfriends, and I

(15:20):
can see the spit in her hair,and I'm like, what happened?
She's like, you know, this like,you know, this boy called me a
nigger and spit on me. And Ijust saw red. I didn't really
know, I didn't know how to, kindof and unfortunately for him, he
was walking past. And, you know,I did what any big brother would
do, you know? I mean, I got myhands on them and I heard him.

(15:42):
And after that, we were draggedto the principal's office. And
as I'm explaining, with my thespit still in my sister's hair,
like this kid's been harassingmy sister, calling her racial
slurs, literally spit on her.
Nah, his dad's a prominent theydidn't believe us. His dad's a
prominent lawyer in this city.
He wasn't raised that way. AndI'm just like so you see the
spit, you know that I'm probablythe biggest athlete to ever come

(16:05):
out of the school outside ofdusty Baker, two months away
from going to UCLA, and youthink, I'm just gonna beat this
kid up for no reason. So prettymuch, that's how they took it.
Absolutely no support from themwhile I'm suspended. You know,
they come and vandalize theschool, hang a mannequin from
the oak tree with my footballjersey on a die. Nigger
swastikas everywhere burned downa bathroom. And it was, it was

(16:31):
crazy. The NAACP came out fromLA to come down and support and
for a while there was Rocky, youknow, my, you know, they
threatened to kill me, so we hadmoved to just a different area,
and had around the clocksecurity for a little while. And
it was, it was really just aneye opening experience. And I

(16:51):
think what was most hurtfulabout it was that I didn't have
the support of a school that Ikind of put on my back. You know
what I mean? I did everythingfor that school, and, you know,
dominated in football anddominated in basketball, and I
think the one time I needed themoutside of sports, I was met
with we

don't believe you be different today.
Absolutely, way different. Noone could get away with throwing
bananas on the basketball. Tellus about the bananas on the
court and what that was evenabout you're at a visiting
Castle

Rob I remember Castle Robles is a it was kind
of a more heavy populated whitecowboy area in the city, out
right outside the city inOrangeville, and we're at this
game, and next thing I know, I'mshooting free throws, and these
guys are shaking Bananas. Andthen I kind of look around,
because I'm obviously lockedinto the game, and there's kids

(17:45):
throughout the kind of the placethat have bananas, and I'm just
like, like, what's going onright now? You know, this is
1997 so this is pre phones, kindof pre, like, you had to be
there to see it, you know what Imean? And it was just, it hurt,
but I didn't allow it to behurt. It was more fire. And

(18:05):
actually, after that game, mydad and I almost got in a fight
with some of the kids that werewearing cowboy boots and cowboy
hats that had the bananas likethey thought that they can
continue to talk. And thatdefinitely wasn't gonna happen
with me. But I got my fire frommy dad, so we were ready to, you
know, fight these five or sixkids at this school until, you
know, the police kind ofintervened. But it was,
unfortunately, in certain areas,it was, it was normal. People

(18:29):
are taught to hate. They're notborn. Yeah, absolutely, it's a
taught trait, just like love isa taught trait. And
unfortunately, not, you know, wesaw it years before I came
around. We I saw it as ateenager, and unfortunately, we
still see it, you know, to thisday. So it's it's a hard thing
to swallow, you know what Imean? And me, not only did I get

(18:49):
it from the white side, I wouldget it from the black side too,
because I wasn't white enoughfor the white kids, and I wasn't
black enough for the black kids.
And I love my dad. His answerwas to fight. You want your
respect, you got to go get it.
And I had to fight kids forcalling me white boy. Black kids
call me white boy, or white kidscalling me nigger. So it was

(19:10):
just a constant until I hadfought enough that people
understand, Okay, well, maybe wecould still be racist or mess
with people. Just don't messwith him, you know, I mean,
because I had to, you know, Ihad to fight often.

Growing up, you saw a lot of drugs on a regular
basis, coke, crack, crankmarijuana, and you tried
marijuana for the first timewhen you were 14 years old.
Yeah. Explain how that happenedand how it took off from there,
my

dad was again a provider, so he would work his
long days or and work hisnights, but he he was a
cigarette smoker, and I rememberI hated the smell of cigarettes,
but I remember maybe the age offive or six, he was smoking
something that didn't stick,like it didn't smell like
cigarettes, and it would kind ofjust peak like, what's that
smell as a little kid?
Obviously, you know, not tryingto as a little kid, but I would

(19:55):
see it. He would smoke hislittle joints, and I'd just be
like, I kind. Like that smell,obviously, much more than the
cigar. I hate to this day. I'm acannabis advocate. Smoke a lot
of cannabis. I've never tried acigarette one time or any of the
heavier drugs. But, you know,cannabis piqued my interest at
maybe I hate to even say it like567, years old, because I like
the way it smelled. And thenfast forward to 14 years old.

(20:18):
You know, took some of my dad'sweed and tried it, got a
terrible headache, but I wasn'ttook it. He didn't give it to I
took it on a joint in thedrawer. Took a nut, yeah, took
took it and went and smoked andgot a terrible headache and
passed out by yourself. Nofriend, no. A friend of mine, a
friend of mine, Jesse was withme, a little white kid that
lived down the street from me.

(20:40):
So he had a little, little rattail. But rat tails used to be
cool back in the day, you know,we dipped off and smoked it, and
it gave me a headache. I wantedto go to sleep, but I wasn't a
quitter, you know what I mean?
So I tried it, I tried it. Itried it a couple more times,
and kind of found that it kindof just, it mellowed me out. It
silenced the noise. It helped mesleep better, and it helped me

(21:00):
focus. So from right there, Iwouldn't say I was hooked,
because obviously I didn't havethe money to be hooked, but I
would socially smoke with myfriends. I had a lot of majority
of my friends from high scorewhite so again, with my
upbringing, and I saw everythingunder the sun. So they started
dabbling in cocaine, and theystarted popping norcos and all

(21:20):
these other pills that it justdidn't interest me. But whenever
we would smoke, I'd be like, I'mall for that. Bullying

is a problem that now has become a prominent
issue in high school. And youlook at today, a lot of the mass
murderers of these multischedule events, mostly people
were bullied Absolutely. So thestats say that 20% of the
students in high school arebullied. I was bullied as a kid.
I stuttered. I couldn't order ina restaurant who made fun of me,
couldn't give a speech in class.
A lot of people who are bulliedbecome bullies. How did that

(21:52):
happen for you?

Unknown (21:55):
I wouldn't say I became a bully because I never looked
for it, but I was just alwaysready for it if it happened,
which is, I don't know if that'sa good or bad thing, but I just
kind of had a chip on myshoulder, you know, I was an
underdog, you know, obviouslyall American football and
basketball, but when you get tothe big stage, I come out here
to LA, I'm a, you know, I'm asmall fish in a big pond, you
know what I mean. So what isgoing to set me apart? How am I

(22:17):
going to find time when I'mplaying with five all Americans
like, what is going to end? Itwas just that fire of trauma,
abuse, racism, and I just think,you know, my parents raised a
little dog, you know what Imean, I was outside from, I
literally remember. I wasthinking about this other day,
like I played outside from,like, four or five years old
until I went to college. Youknow, I was still, when I get

(22:39):
home from school, in highschool, I would still go out and
find some hoop somewhere to hoopor, you know, go do something.
So I was just outside, and atthat, you know, the the streets
really raised me. And, you know,if you grow up outside, that's
where you get, you know, yourfirst kiss is out there, your
first fights are normally in theneighborhood. You know, you play
in the creek and you're buildingforts and you're climbing trees
and you're so I was just one ofthose kids that grew up outside,
and I think it all the stuffthat happened to me, I kind of

(23:02):
really hardened me. And it itreally to me. It propelled me
through college and allowed meto have an opportunity MBA,
because, like I said, I was theone that wasn't supposed to make
it. You know me. You had a wehad the number one, the back to
back recruiting classes forUCLA. 1997 class was, I think,
to all Americans, but the numberone recruiting class, and then

(23:22):
my class had four McDonald's allAmericans, and then me. So I was
an all American, but these guyswere higher ranked all
Americans. They played in thebig McDonald's game. But, you
know, I was the one at all, bothteams. My the sophomores that
were sophomores when I wasfreshmen, like, I ended up, you
know, having, you know, a longercareer than all those guys. And
I think it was just kind of myheart in the fire inside of me.

Let's go back to high school. Freshman year of
high school, or del campo HighSchool, you play four sports,
basketball, football, baseballand track, all American and
football and basketball.
Football was

your first my best sport. Yeah, first love and best
sport. So,

and by the way, I've seen it. I've seen you play
football. We were over my houseone day for pickleball.

Unknown (24:04):
That's right, we were playing catch a little bit. I
think

I'm pretty good.
You're throwing the ball around.
But man, remember your firstpass? I think came in with,
like, that, Whiz, yeah, seewhere I'm like, Holy shit, this
guy hadn't even picked up a balland, boom, there it is.

Yeah, football, his talent? Yeah. God bless me with
football. Football is what Iplayed in the neighborhood early
my dad was someone who waskicked out of the Marines and
and and grinded his way to a trywith the 40 Niners, and was one
of the last cuts from the 84team with Bill Walsh to the head
coach so and then after that,that didn't work. He played in

(24:42):
tackle leagues in the weekendsand flag football leagues. So
basketball didn't really sparkmy interest at all. You know,
football was what we play. Weplay tackle on the grass. And
then as we got a little bitolder, we actually started
playing tackle in the streets.
So it was just, you grew uprough, you know, skinned up
knees and elbow. And hips andeverything. But it was just, I
guess, a part of being the kidsin the 80s, and as I continued

(25:03):
to get bigger, I'm just like,okay, like, then I started
getting stronger, and justfootball was easy to me. Like,
basketball I picked up. Startedtaking basketball serious,
probably seventh, eighth grade,because I kept getting bigger,
but football was always my loveand always my passion. Recruited

(25:23):
to play both. But just by thetime I was done growing, I
didn't really see too many six,eight receivers in the NFL, and
I just didn't know if therewould be longevity there, so I
chose basketball. But basketballwas something I had to really,
really, really work at to makeAt

what point did you realize, hey, I'm, I'm
pretty good, and I'm probablybetter than everyone else I'm
playing with.

Well, I mean, I think to be able to get to UCLA,
you have to be good, but great,yeah, I had to do a lot of
learning there, you know. Andthis is before, like, I have
obviously kids now, and, youknow, they're training as young
as six years old, you know. Butback then, we didn't train,
because in high school, like, Iwent from sport to sport. So
there was never time to train.
So, you know, just learning andunderstanding and watching and

(26:05):
then obviously going to UCL. Ithink one of the greatest
benefits, outside of how amazingthe school is and the lifelong
connections, was every summer,all the pros come up to the
men's gym. So 17, just turned18, and I'm out here in the
summertime playing with COVIDand Shaq and Paul Pierce and you
name it, all these guys are inthe gym on our campus. I'm like,
holy shit. So that was kind ofreally like my crash course too.

(26:28):
Okay, if you want to be able toplay this next level, this is
the level of competition. So Ithink we got a cheat code,
because every summer, we wereable to play against the best
players in the world becausethey were on our campus,
training and playing. You couldjust

kind of walk in there. So we, so we

always played. We always played. No, we played as
a team. So we would go in thereas a team. So, you know, some we
would play as a group, you know.
So you got COVID on the otherside, Shaq on the other side. So
I've always, you know, BaronDavis and Earl Watson. When they
would, they would, they would,they were our point guards, and
they were our leader. So, youknow, it'd be us, and, you know,
then and a couple more guys, andwe would go out there and we
would hang we would definitelybe able to hold our own, you

(27:05):
know, I mean, we were a scrappyyoung team. And then my first
year actually, was the 1998 NBAlockout. So as starting, I'm
coming from Sacramento, smalltown. I'm in LA now, I get to
play a little bit in the summerwith these pros, and then the
NBA goes into a lockout. Andnext thing I know, it's like,
our games are like Leger games,you know? I mean, all the stars
are coming to our games. Shaqand Kobe were coming to our

(27:27):
games. Like the whole gym wouldstop when they would come in,
they was just like, You knowwhat? I mean, so it was kind of
like a star studded event. ButI'm like, damn, this is what LA
is like, you know? I mean, likemy first year, my crash course
was, you know, we were the maincenter of attention and then the
main attraction. Until the NBAstarted, we were out in the
town, whooping it up and doingall we did. I'm not gonna lie,
Randy, we were out there. Wewere having fun. I mean, I'm in

(27:51):
Hollywood parties and going topremieres and meeting stars. And
it was as fun as it was, I wasstill homesick my first year, so
I'm trying to get home twice amonth, you know, catch a ride
with someone from NorCal. Youknow, you put on the bulletin
boards anyone going up north,you know, in the dorms, and
you'd find someone, andsometimes I'd ride with a

(28:13):
stranger, you know, a student,but a stranger up north, I chip
in on gas or, you know, youknow, scrounge up enough money
to buy a plane ticket, but I wasstill as much fun as I was
having I was still homesick,because it just wasn't LA.
Wasn't my lifestyle. You knowwhat I mean? It became my
lifestyle, but it wasn't mylifestyle to start.

We all have influence with people in our
life that help shape our liveswhen we're younger. Could be
mentors, coaches. Tell us aboutSteve Kenyon and the influence
coach

Kenya. He's my guy, man. I love Coach Kenyon, my
football coach, and he was hardon me too, and that's what I
appreciate. Actually pissed meoff, because I should have been
playing varsity as a sophomore,but he just wouldn't let me. He
just wouldn't let me. But just areally good guy, hard nosed old
school guy. He reminded me ofBud Kilmer from varsity blues,
the coach from varsity blues, ifanyone sees this go back in

(29:02):
March, that was like my highschool coach, just to it, great
coach, great motivator. Wealways had really good teams,
and he just took a liking to me,I think, because obviously I was
so good. He saw something in me,and was just, you know, to this
day, someone I still talk to,just golf with them in this
past, you know, past summer. SoCoach Kenyon is someone who will

(29:24):
be near and dear to my heartwhen I actually won a
championship with the Warriors.
I retired after that year, so Iwasn't there for the ring
ceremony the beginning of theyear. So the Warriors planned
this ceremony for me to get myring, and somehow they got a
hold of coach Kenyon, and CoachKenyon was the one that
presented me my ring when I wentback to Golden State and got my
championship ring. So theysurprise you that night. Yeah,

(29:45):
Draymond called me out, but nextthing I know, I'm like, What the
fuck is Coach Kenyon doing outthere? And he's the one, and I
actually had bought rings for mytwins too. So my twins are seven
or eight at the time. And yeah,Coach Kenyon, you know, is the
one that handed me my ring. So.
It was perfect, special nighttoo, as a 10 year anniversary of
your mom's 10 year anniversary.
Yeah, it was, a lot of thingsfell into place and it wasn't

(30:05):
planned, which was crazy. Youknow, a lot of things fell into
place that night. It happened tobe the 10 year anniversary of my
mom's death. My twins werethere, young, young youngsters.
They're 16 now, but I think theywere seven or eight at the time.
And, you know, to get the kindword from Draymond, and just,
just to be able to be aroundthose guys for a little while,
it was dope. We're

gonna get to the championship and the ceremony.
But one thing that I noticedthat I saw that video, it's, you
didn't really tear up whenyou're back there in your
hometown and you got your kidsthere and they're getting the
rings. I mean, what? What wereyou feeling? You win the
championship the year before,you're not playing, you go back
and you sold out. You got it's

bittersweet, Randy, to be honest with you, because
I've always been someone thatnothing was ever handed to me,
and I've told this story before,but I didn't necessarily feel
like I earned that ring becauseI got hurt going into the
playoffs and I didn't really geta chance to play in the plays I

(31:08):
had probably the worst in myentire career, the worst
sprained ankle ever had. Thatthing ballooned up. I'm like,
What is this like in theplayoffs with a championship
team, and my ankle is just amonster. I'm like, God damn. So
I didn't even feel good until,like the Western Conference,
I've played a few minutes hereand there, and so it really but
instead of, you know, obviouslybeing an NBA vet at that time,
you know, it's it's not, it'snot an individual thing. It's

(31:30):
not, it's not a time to pout. Itwas hard for me individually,
but I would never show that. Iwould be in my practice, busting
my ass and running, trying toget back in shape, making my
ankle feel better, and then justbeing supportive for the guys,
you know what I mean, to bethere with Katie and Steph and
clay and Dre and Iggy and allthose guys and coach Kerr like,
it was just such a dopeenvironment to be in. So

(31:53):
personally, it was really hardfor me to accept that.
Obviously, I'm almost eightyears removed from that
situation now. So obviously,now, when I look back, obviously
my body of work, I think Ideserved it, but I just thought
in the moment that I didn'tnecessarily deserve that ring,
because I kind of felt like Igot a free pass. You know, I was
court sized with the rest of thehigh paying people on the other

(32:15):
side, watching this incredibleteam, night in, night out. Do
what they do.

You had a productive career at UCLA, you
made it to the Sweet 16 twice.
You Your coach was Steve Lavin,who you said, was a terrible
coach,

not maybe terrible might have been he just he was
young. You know, lav was 30 whenhe got the job at UCLA. And you
think about a 30 year old coachis normally in high school, or
maybe even below that, but he'sat a major institution at 30,
and just he was learning withus, let's say that we were
probably the most in shape. Theone thing we didn't have to
learn is how to run. He wouldrun our asses to death,

(32:51):
seventeens and nines, and wewere definitely so 17. So a 17
is when you line up on one sidethe court, long way, but you go
sideways, so you go 17 times andprobably under a minute. So it's
a really, it's a push, and thensometimes you would have to go
nine sideways. Or if you do linedrills, people know line drills,
full core line drill. So we wereprobably the most in shape team

(33:13):
in the country. I just felt inlooking back and obviously
talking like we didn't learn aton from him. But I think again,
what balanced that was beingable to play in the summertime
with all those pros, where itwasn't so much structure, you
just got to go out there andhold your own. And I think
that's what really helped ourteams. We would have mediocre
team on my freshman year team, Iwant to say we probably had six

(33:33):
or seven pros, but we stillnever won a conference, never
really made huge noise in thetournament, but it was still the
college I say, outside of havingkids, is, is, is the best. I put
my college experience above myMBA experience, to be honest
with you, because I havelifelong friends. Just loved

(33:54):
UCLA to death, had a blastthere. Let's

talk about going from college to the pros, and
I'm going to start with somestatistics now on the difficulty
of doing that, there is roughly500,000 high school basketball
players, boys basketball playersthe United States at any one
given time. Of these, roughly16,000 will go on to play a
college level that includesDivision One, two and three. Of

(34:19):
these 16,000 only 110 will everplay at least one NBA game.
That's a one in 3,333% chancepoint. Oh, 3% chance of getting
there. Wow. So you got all theseguys you coach right now,
including your kids. We talkedabout a friend of our son. What

(34:40):
are you telling these kids aboutthe odds of make it? And how do
you motivate them to keep going,to try to make it?

You know, my thing is, is preparing these, these,
these young men, you know, howdo you be a productive young man
and grow as a man and as anathlete, first and foremost? And
then the other side I teach isthe mental side. I'm so busy, I.
Multiple hats and have a housefull of kids, but also love
coaching. I started coaching assoon as I retired. So, you know,
I tell the parents, they got toget better on their own time as

(35:08):
far as skill set, but when theycome to me, I'm going to teach
them the mental side of the gameand how hard, because all those
crazy numbers you say, not thatsome of those kids aren't good
enough or the odds workedagainst them, but it's just a
mental game. I've seen so manypeople better than me, and, you
know, all stars, all Americans,that just never got an
opportunity. And most of thetime it's up here. You know,

(35:29):
whether you, you know, you thinkyou're a Kobe Bryant level
score, or you think you'rebigger than the Pro, where
there's just a lot, there's somuch shit that goes into it. So
I say 90% of the game is mental.
You know, once you get to thattop level. And in whatever
profession you're in, everyonecould pretty much do everything.
So what is going to allow you toeither excel as a grow on to be
a star, or just maintain in thatleague? And I just think it's

(35:50):
your mindset and your approachto everything you do. And
obviously, when you're younger,I got lucky where I came into
when I came into the NBA, it wasan older League. You know that
there was bets that were, youknow, I'm coming in at 2122 I
got guys on my team that are 38you know, 3840 years old. So
whether they're playing or not,they're giving back to guys like
me, helping me, you know, avoidpitfalls, and some of the horror

(36:13):
stories you hear about the womenare blowing all your money. So I
came into a league that, youknow, guys wrapped their arm
around me, and one guyparticularly was Chris Weber,
you know, huge fan of Chris, bigbrother, almost a father figure
to me in my earlier days of myNBA, because I wasn't really
getting a chance to play. So Iwas, you know, debating, all

(36:33):
right, I know I was really goodat football. I'm gonna, I'm
gonna start. And I would tell myagent, like, Hey, I'm gonna give
this one more try. And I did itand I did it, and it didn't
work. I'm gonna give this onemore try, because I was in the
NBA, I just wouldn't get achance to play. And, you know,
luckily, this one time, but onesummer, this summer, so I played
four years, and I didn't Iplayed when I first started at
the clippers, and then when Iwent to the kings, I went back

(36:56):
to my hometown team, because Iwas playing there in the
summertime with those guys, andI wanted to play with them, so I
signed the deal there. But whenI signed the deal there, Chris
ends up getting traded to the 70Sixers to play with Iverson, and
I'm a throw in at that point, soI'm just I help fill out that
trade. And when I go to Philly,I don't get any opportunity to
play. So it's two years of coldweather and a lot of cannabis

(37:18):
smoking, and I'm kind ofdoubting myself at that time,
like I'm not getting anyminutes. Am I good enough? What
do I need to do to get outthere? And Chris was someone who
continued to just stay in my earand encourage me to work. And I
got a shooting coach, and I justput in a ton of work. And when I
finally got a real opportunityto play that following year, I
took advantage of it.

Let's go back to draft night. So you're the 46th
kick in the second round by theMemphis Grizzlies. Let's freeze
frame it there before we go onfrom there. Was that a dream
come true.

To be honest with you, that night we had rented I
befriended a guy that had a cardealership out there, and he
used to give me some cars. He'smoved on, rest in peace to Ray.
So we're at his big old housepool, a bunch of people there,
and I don't really know I workedout for a lot of teams, but I

(38:14):
don't really know where I'mgonna get drafted, you know, I
don't really have a sense ofwhat's going on, you know, my
agent says, you know, late firstround, second round. So I'm
like, okay, cool. First roundcomes, cool. So watching these
pics, I mean, I'm watching, but,yeah, but I'm watching, but I'm
acting like. I'm not like, youknow, I'm just like, I don't
want to seem like I'm pressed,you know what I mean, so I'm

(38:35):
watching, but I'm not so yourheart's beating out of your
chest, yeah? Because I just theuncertainty, you know, maybe
uncertainty. So I actually, youknow, dip off at one point and
smuggle joint, you know, like, Ithink it was after, like, the
33rd pick, 34th pick, and I'mseeing guys that I was better
than and out played in college,and I'm thinking, like, Damn,
what if I don't get drafted? Howembarrassing? Like, I'm
thinking, like, if I don't getdrafted, how embarrassing is it

(38:57):
going to be that all thesepeople came out to support me,
and lo and behold, the 46 pickto Memphis was a huge exhale.
But then, as soon as I gotpicked, I was traded for Wesley
person, and I forgot one otherperson. So I went from Memphis
to Cleveland draft night, andfrom there,

you go to the D league, explain what the D
league is, talk about the glamorand the 10 hour bus ride,

no such thing. So I go to Cleveland and John Lucas,
I still hurt a little bitbecause I just feel like he
didn't give me an opportunity. Ifelt like I had a solid training
camp, and even other guys on theteam, you know, were super
surprised, like, show like, whenI got cut, I got cut maybe 10
days, two weeks in the trainingcamp. And, you know, I'm getting
hit up by veterans on the team,like, Girl, I can't believe they

(39:49):
let you go. Like you did yourthing, man, keep your head up.
You know, you'll be back up hereone day. So from there, I go
back home, and it's, it's ahuge. Bear Smith, you know, I
mean, because I was supposed tobe the one that made it,
although I wasn't supposed to bethe one that made it, I showed
that I could make it so. Andthen, you know, I get drafted,
and everyone thinks, oh, you'rean instant millionaire. Like it.
It doesn't work that way. So Iget cut maybe two weeks into

(40:12):
training camp, and then I getopportunity to go to the D
league. This is before it wasthe G League. It was the second
year in existence. So it was theNBA minor league program, kind
of like a farm system forbaseball, and it's obviously a
lot bigger now, but when I gotthere, it was the second year.
So I'm in Fayetteville, NorthCarolina. J Cole is from there,
but I was back there when,before anyone knew what

(40:32):
Fayetteville North Carolina was.
And the funny part about it was,it was a it was a military or an
army town or military, I'm notexactly sure what, but there was
a big thing was an army basethere, and there was always
fights on the weekends. And I'dbe like, Yo, why are they? Why
is there always fights? Andthey're just like, you know,
well, these guys are coming backhome, and their women have been
out running the streets, andthen the husbands come home, and
it's just when I tell you, everysingle time I went out, I saw

(40:54):
two or three fights, I'm like,damn, this is crazy. So long
story short, man, I'm grindingthere, playing well. The coach
has a son that went to NorthCarolina that was a highly
touted all American, and I beathim out in training camp. I feel
like I'm the best player on theteam. I'm playing really well,
but then I get hurt, and when Iget hurt, it opens up the door

(41:16):
for his son to come in and startand then once I got healthy, I
was playing spot minutes, so Iwas looking at the G league or
the D league as a pit stop. Butyou know, while we're there,
we're staying in run down hotelsand bus ride, nasty eight hour,
10 hour bus rides. If we didfly, it'd be like the La Bamba

(41:36):
plane, like I'd rather walk thanbe on some of these planes that
they had put us on. So it wasjust the early inception of the
league, and it was, it wasnasty, but really, that was
what, you know, kind of sparked,really lit the fire in me, I
guess, to be like, you know, Iknow I'm better than this. I
know I can be on that nextlevel. I just have to show it.
So unfortunately, I didn'treally get a chance to show it

(41:57):
there. I showed it the firsthalf of the season, I got hurt,
and I didn't really play themuch in the second half of the
season, I the season thefollowing summer. No teams are
really biting. So I have to goto something called the ABA, I
think is called a team in LongBeach. So this is where, you
know, we're going to JuarezMexico to play games. And as if
the Long Beach jam, Long Beachjam, what a name Long Beach gym,

(42:19):
going to Juarez, Mexico, andjust all these oddball little
gyms, terrible gyms to play in.
Actually, our gym was cool,though we played in the pyramid
at Long Beach State, but all theother gyms were nasty, and this
is where Dennis Rodman and Ifirst crossed paths, because
he's trying to get back in theNBA. So one day, next thing, I'm
like, Dennis Rodman walks intopractice. I'm like, What the

(42:42):
fuck is Dennis Rodman doing herewith his with his pit bull and
his entourage and the coach,like, Hey guys, we got a new
player. I'm like, what DennisRodman? So Dennis is there, but
unfortunately, I'm only withDennis for, like, probably a
week and a half, because I'mplaying really well. I'm putting
up big numbers. And, you know,once Dennis got there, I
probably played maybe two orthree games with Dennis, and
then I got called up to theclip. To the Clippers for a 10

(43:03):
day and a 10 day contract ispretty much a tryout. You get 10
days to kind of show what you'reworth. And my first 10 days went
really good, played well. Then Igot a second 10 day. Played
well. And then after the second10 They'd either have to let you
go or sign you for the rest ofthe year. And luckily, Mike
Dunleavy was the Head Head Coachof the Clippers at that time,
decided to sign me for the restof the year, and then that's
when my journey

started. So you went to the kings the next year.
So

that was a wrong move, to be honest with you. So
I played with the clippers, and,you know, Mike Dunley gave me a
huge opportunity, and I wasplaying a lot, and I should have
stayed there. They wanted to resign me for the minimum, but I'm
from Sacramento, and keep inmind, this is the time when the
Lakers and the kings are goingat it. So I'm at UCLA, you know,
born and raised a Laker fan,inherited the Kings because I

(43:50):
moved there, so I'm kind ofrepresenting sac. You know,
everyone's talking shit, andit's a big thing with COVID and
Webb and all the Shaq and allthese guys. So, but every summer
when I'm not at UCLA, I'm goinghome, and Chris has me come up
to the kings facility. So I'mtraining with these pros every
you know, strength training andhanging out and, you know,
getting to know him better. AndJason Williams at the time, then

(44:11):
they traded Jay Whalen, got MikeBibby, so I'm hanging out with
all these guys. So after myfirst season with the clippers,
I don't spend it in LA like I'mexcited. I made it. I want to go
home and blow the money I madeand but while I'm training, I'm
training at this facility. So,you know, Rick Adelman had asked
me, like, what was going on? Iwas like, you know, there's some
interest from the clippers. He'slike, I really like what you've

(44:33):
done this summer here. You know,everyone's been raving about the
kind of person you're on, howhard you work. He's like, you
want an opportunity to playhere? And I'm just like, hell
yes, I'm, you know, get a chanceto play for my hometown team. So
season comes. I'm backing uppages, still out COVID, just one
of the greatest shooters of alltime, but I'm still getting
solid minutes. I'm getting, youknow, 15 to 20 minutes a game
until they decide to tradeChris, and they try to decide to

(44:57):
trade Chris, I think, rightbefore the all star break. So
maybe. Be late January, earlyFebruary, and I was heartbroken,
heartbroken because, again, I'mplaying for my hometown team. My
family's coming to the gameevery night. I'm playing, I'm
playing on a good team, and thenall of a sudden, you know, I
find out I'm a part of the tradethat sent me, or excuse me, that

(45:17):
sent Chris to Philly. And, youknow, for two years it was tough
out there. The

first game playing for the Kings, you had
17 points and I rebounds. Howgood did that feel?

It felt great, you know, like I said, I put the
work in, I genuinely put thework in, and had great mentors
and older players around me thatwere encouraging me. And I just
felt like, Man, what a dreamcome true to be able to come
home and play for my hometownteam. But this is where my
hometown team is still a reallygood team. So it was just, you
know, I stepped I remember thatgame was at Dallas too, and I,
you know, Rick trusted me, and,you know, I knew what I had to

(45:53):
do, and I went out there andplayed

well. He said you had to audition every single
day for that role. Don't peoplein the real world have to do
that as well? And aren't we onlyas good as we were yesterday,
only

as good as your last game? So when I said that,
what I meant by that was becauseI was on one year deals, you
know. So every, you know, I hadto every night, not only was I
playing for my team, but I wasplaying for the rest of the
league to kind of see what kindof player i was. And again, I
think I made a huge mistake bygoing to the kings, because they
kind of got me on the carouselof, you know, obviously moving

(46:28):
out to Philly, and then when youdon't play, I think the thin
line between having a longcareer, obviously, is a lot of
mental but it's justopportunity. And I didn't get
any opportunity in Philly, oneof the coaches was mo cheeks,
and he was an asshole, and kindof made it his goal to kind of
fuck with me. Fuck with me, andthat almost ended really bad for
him. But, you know, I'm so Iplay with the clippers on a 10

(46:49):
day half the season, and then Itake a jump to Sacramento, and
I'm playing the first half ofthe season, then I don't play at
all when I go to Philly. So thenext year and a half, two
seasons, I'm just sitting on thebench. I'm just there, and it's
just like, so you know, afterthat season, I didn't really
have no phones ringing. I didn'tknow, really know what I was

(47:09):
going to do. So my UCLAteammate, Baron Davis, had just
got traded to the warriors, andI was at home in Sacramento, and
he calls me up one morning,like, Hey, we're going to play
some pickup up here. Do you wantto come up? I'm like, shit. All
right, I'll drive down. So Itake the hour and a half drive
from Sacramento to the bay, goout there that that day and play

(47:29):
really well, not knowing thehead coach, Don Nelson, was
watching. He was up in hisoffice, and he was watching us
play that day. And we get done,and you know, we're shooting
some free throws after, and I'mliterally about to walk out of
the gym, and he comes down andkind of puts his arm around me.
He's like, he's like, Hey, whereare you going to camp at son?
I'm just like, Coach, I don'tknow. I don't have nowhere. And
he's just like, I really likewhat I saw today. He's just

(47:51):
like, we have a full trainingcamp roster. You know, we have
19 guys, 16 or 14 areguaranteed. 13 are guaranteed. I
think 16 are partiallyguaranteed. He's like, I can't
promise you anything, but if youcome and show what you did
today, day in, day out, I giveyou an opportunity. And to me,
that was all I needed, becausethe coaches in Philly didn't
even give me that opportunity.
So when he kind of instilledthat confidence in me, I just I

(48:14):
was a man on the mission, andwhether I had to fight you, slap
you, or just play basketballlike my I was going to make that
team, so I ended up, you know,being the last, and I think I
was the 20th guy coming totraining camp, and beat out the
three guys or four guys invitedto camp, beat out their
partially guaranteed guys. And Imake that team. And to start
that season, I'm at the end ofthe bench, but I'm happy to be

(48:36):
there, and I know that thiscoach believes in me, so I know
that I'm gonna get anopportunity, and as I would get
these little minute, few minuteshere, a few minutes there, I
would make the most of it. I'dknock down a few threes, I would
play defense, I'd get rebounds,I'd dive on the floor. And my
leash became to get a lotlonger. And I went from the last
guy invited to camp to one ofthe last guys on the bench, to

(48:56):
the first or second guy off thebench to starting all in the
same year.

What a remarkable turnaround. Yes, must
have felt pretty, pretty darngood.

It was good, I mean, because again, I put the
work in, you know? I mean,Randy, like I said when I was
telling you about mychampionship ring, like nothing
has ever been handed to me, likeI had to grind for everything.
And I think that's why I playedso hard, and I appreciated
absolutely every game I playedin, because I knew it could be
gone tomorrow, you know. Sonothing was ever handed to me,
so to be rewarded for my hardwork and have a coach that
believed in me, and then again,now I'm only an hour and a half

(49:31):
away from home, so I'm not toofar away from home, so I still
got family coming to all thegames. My parents are driving
the hour and a half trip fromSac to the bay to come watch
every home game. So I'm in areally good situation. Already
talked about your mom

a little bit your mom a little bit. Your
fifth year in the league, hermom was diagnosed with cancer.
Yeah, I think on November 1, shedied, 26 days later, stage four,
kidney cancer, but it spread allover. She was your

She was my best friend. She was my she was my
dog. My mom was my best friend,you know, and you know. Thinking
back on it again, I think lastweek was the 17 year
anniversary. The one thing thatI was so thankful for was that
she got to see me play becauseshe was on some of those tough
phone calls at night where Mom,I don't know if I'm gonna be
able to play. I don't know ifI'm gonna make it. Maybe I

(50:16):
should go play football. I don'tknow what I'm gonna do, like she
was on the other end of, youknow, a lot of those
conversations. So, you know, forme to get an opportunity, and
that season that we had beforethe season where I, you know,
grinded and made the warriors,we made NBA history that year.
You know, that was the yearthat, you know, my now co host,
Stephen Jackson, he gets tradedto our team the end of January,

(50:38):
and we're at the bottom of theWestern Conference, and we win
like 19 out of 23 or 19 out of24 games to steal the last spot
in the playoffs. The Clipperslost, and we won and we were in.
And then we were playing againstDirk and whiskey in the Dallas
Mavericks. Dirk is the MVP thatseason. I think they win 67
games. But our coach, Don Nelsonwas the one that was over in

(51:00):
Dallas first, and him and MarkCuban had some kind of falling
out before he left, so Nellyfelt like that first round game
or series against Dallas was ourchampionship. I mean, he was on
it. We were so well prepared.
This is the first time that theyever put smaller players on
Dirk. So myself and StevenJackson were guarding Dirk, and
we were slowing them down, andwe were double teaming them, and
we just frustrated the shit outof that team. So we were able to

(51:20):
make NBA history, the firsteight seed to be a number one
seed in seven games. It happenedbefore, but it never happened in
seven games. So that happened,and then we ended up losing the
next round. So my mom is a partof all that, you know, so she's
in the crowd and, you know,hanging out. And my parents
would even come out andsometimes go to the clubs with
us after the games, like theywere just so proud of me and

(51:41):
happy that they're around. And Ilove the fact that she got to
see that because again, as yousaid, that season hit, I'm going
back to Golden State for mysecond season, and the season
starts beginning of November.
Back then she was, I remember,we just got on a plane. We had
just got done playing theSupersonics, and I get a call

(52:02):
from her as I'm stepping on theplane, and she's crying. I'm
like, What the fuck is going on?
And she's like, Baby, I'm sick.
I'm like, what's wrong? She'slike, I have cancer. I'm like,
What do you mean, you gotcancer? She's like, Yeah, and
it's bad. Like, what's bad?
She's like, it's stage four andit's all over my body. I'm like,
Well, don't worry. You know,like, UCLA has one of the best
cancer research programs.

(52:22):
Research programs, like, I'mgonna get you. She's like, No,
baby, it's not like that. I'mlike, What do you mean? She's
like, it's bad. I'm just like,so we kind of cry a little bit
on that phone. And then as soonas I get back to the bay, I
drive up there and kind of findout that it's spread all
throughout her body. She had twohuge, softball sized lumps in
her chest, and the scan was soblurry that her whole upper body

(52:44):
was just filled with cancer. Sounfortunately, she passed, you
know, in 26 days of beingdiagnosed, and that was probably
one of the hardest things I'veever had to go through. Because,
again, our family had beenthrough so much to get to that
point. My parents, believe itnot, were still together at that
point, and I'd finally made it.
And you know, my goal was, youknow, my mom was, you know,

(53:07):
telling me that okay, because Iwas, I used to tell my mom once
I got a little older, like, Mom,this isn't for you. Like, why
don't you leave? You know what Imean? But women back then were
very dependent on the whoeverbrought the money home. It
wasn't, there wasn't independentwomen back in the 80s and 90s,
you know, where I came from. Somy goal was always to buy my mom
a house that was going to be myfirst thing to do. And when I
finally started making the moneyto be able to do that, you know,

(53:31):
I lost her.

We all have proud moments in our lives,
things that are special. When welook back at our parents, I
think back to my own situation,and my mom, when our company
went public, she had put alittle money in the company, and
it was life changing event forall of us, for my grandmother,
who grew up in poverty andfoster care and used to sleep in

(53:54):
closets, because back then,people would get paid to have a
foster student, And they cheerlike the help. I remember her
coming out to see my house. Youknow, he been in my house saying
thank you. And I rememberthinking like, you know, making
my grandmother proud was a hugemoment in my life as well. Talk

(54:15):
to us about the special memoryof your Mohawk and what that
meant to you guys.

Um, yeah, I don't, I don't, to be honest, feeling
know where it came from. I don'tknow where the idea came from,
but I just wanted to change upgoing into that playoff
situation the previous yearbefore she died. And this Barber
was really dope, and he's justlike, let's try this. He's like,
let's do a mohawk. I'm like, Idon't want to hold the one,
like, all the way down the back.
That's that's not really mystyle. He's like, no, just do us

(54:40):
do a half Mohawk. Like, what thehell is a half Mohawk? He's
like, trust me, and I did thishaircut. And when I tell you
again, I wasn't the star on thatteam, I was definitely a
prominent role player on thatteam. That haircut was so famous
in the Bay Area. Man, it wascrazy. They ended up calling it
a faux hawk. Like, it's just.
Forward. Part of my hair was up,and it was dope. And I think for

(55:03):
maybe, like, the next two orthree years, four years, every
time I got to the playoffs, Iwould do it and kind of honor my
mom. So that was cool. That wasa fun time, man. That's when I
first really, really jumped onthe NBA scene. And I was known
and recognized everywhere whereI went, because I we had a team
of misfits. You know what Imean? We were one of those teams

(55:23):
that we were wild. And this isback, obviously, when cannabis
is legal now in the league, butwe were smoking weed every night
in the clubs, every nightdrinking, having fun, hanging
out, but then we would alwaysbust our ass the next day in the
game, like we were a team thathung out and kicked it and went
hard off the court, but wentreally hard on the court too. So
it was just a it was a specialtime in my life. And kind of

(55:45):
really, although it was my fifthyear into the NBA, I kind of
felt like it was almost like myfirst year, because it was the
first year I really got to play,and I kind of kind of became a
household name after

that. If your mom were here today, what would
you say to her? I had to give

her a big hug. The crazy part about it is my mom
loved kids. Loved kids, like Isaid when she used to come up
and have to be the yard duty,because I was fighting so much
everyone, all the girls. That'show I kind of started getting
girls to like me, because theyliked my mom. So your mom's so
nice, and all the girls wouldhang around her as she was the
yard duty. And you know, shejust had such a great aura and

(56:18):
energy about her. But I say allthat to say that my mom passed
November 27 2008 and the twinscame the following year, almost
a year, you know, after my mompassed. So the one thing I wish
was she just would have got tosee my kids. You know what? I

(56:39):
mean. That's the one, notnecessarily regret, but I just
wish that, you know, as lovingas she was and so motherly, that
I wish that she would have got achance to meet, you know, my
twins.

I grew up in Detroit, as you know, grew up a
pistons fan, and we won. We werea great team for many years.
Growing up in high school, thebad boys, yes. So we had Bill
ambier. We had. Rodman, I didn'tknow he went to school in Palos
Verdes. He went to school andbeer was the only NBA player
whose dad made more money

than he did. Crazy.
It was funny. So Mike, thetwins, just played at Palos
Verdes the other night, and Isaw it. That's like, that bill
and beers, like, oh yeah, he wasthe man out here. And then his
family had a good money I didn'tknow that. Yeah, his dad

was a CEO of a big company. Okay, side side
note here, so at a charityevent, I bought a two on two
with Rick mohore, right, andRick Moore was part of the bad
boys. He get in there. He had abig ass. He was a bruiser.
People out, yeah, Bruiser, yeah,getting the fight. And people
hated him, yeah, playing againstthem. So super excited. And Rick

(57:43):
Moore, and I guess was theassistant coach on a W NBA team
with Bill ambier, so I get anote that he can't play, but
Bill Amber can come over. And soI said, Okay, so I scheduled
some of my boys from Detroit,country. They were Chris, yeah,
Chris went there, right? Yes. Soare you guys the same time? So

(58:05):
he was a freshman at Country Daywhen I was a freshman at
Michigan. Okay. Oh, so you guysmiss the other about four years.
We miss each other. But theinteresting thing is, as a
freshman, he played at Chrysler,Country Day was in the finals
division C is a small, you know,monster, tomahawking over as a

(58:26):
freshman, sharing and everyoneas a 1414, so Bill Amber comes
out, you know, I call my friendsfrom Detroit. You know, they fly
in to see this. And it's nowthree on three, because I want
to take advantage of the house.
Come on. Oh, you came to thehouse, yeah, came to my house
and playing shit. That's dope.
So it was very cool. But theguy's like, 610 and he's not

(58:47):
really in shape then, but itdoesn't matter. Like, I'm six
two and a half and I'm thetallest guy, yeah, so it's like,
I'm playing against Bill.

I don't think people understand, though,
because, like, you'll see us onTV, and we all look the similar
size, and you'll see a guy inthe band. It's like, oh, he
sucks. But to get next to us andto see us play with just regular
people, like people don'tunderstand how big, strong, fast
and how good NBA players are, he

was. He's a monster, yeah. And the funny
thing is, too, he was staying atthe Beverly Hills Hotel, or down
not Beverly Hill, the BeverlyWilshire hotel, before it became
a four season. So you need aride back. There's no Uber then.
So my friend Mark Borman had aPrius. And so the funny thing
was, Bill lambir Getting intothe Prius, like

Unknown (59:38):
the you go, send Indian style in the front seat, going

going back there. So you were a bad boy as
well. I mean, you were a verycontroversial player. Yeah,
people hated you when theyplayed against you, yeah, but
that was a good role for you.
You made it as that role player.
Well, they

Unknown (59:55):
loved that. They hated to play against me and loved to
play with me. I. Just kind offigure when I got I feel like
the chance for Golden State waskind of like my second
opportunity, my second chance.
And by all means necessary, Iwouldn't say that I took my
first opportunity for granted,because again, I had to go
through the D league and get tothe league. But I think that two
years of not playing really tookit out of me, and when I got a

(01:00:18):
chance to play again. It wasjust I was on fire, playing with
my hair on fire. So I was justagain, if I had to play
basketball, if I had to protectmy teammates, I was taught at an
early age to protect your familyat all costs. So I was I had a
dad that my brother sister gotin a fight. No matter what
happened, if I didn't get intoit or protect them, I was gonna

(01:00:38):
get my ass whooped. So I'vealways been a protector, always.
So that's how I kind oftranslated that into the NBA.
You know, I lost probably closeto 600 700,000 in the league.
And it was never because forbeing fine, for being fine,
yeah, it was never reallybecause guys were messing with
me. It was always because I wascoming to the defense of my
teammates. So I was a guy thatyou just, you just knew that you

(01:01:00):
had to work that night playingagainst me. I was gonna, you
know, constant energy, I'm gonnarebound, I'm gonna knock down
shots, I'm gonna play hard,physical defense, kind of,
because I grew up watching thebad boys, the pistons, and I
grew up, you know, watchingmagic. And I was a football
player at heart, you know what Imean? So I love the physicality.
So I was just one of those guys.
Again, it's just like, you know,again. I wasn't the guy

(01:01:22):
averaging 20 or 30, but I feellike I affected a lot of games
just with my energy and myattitude and how hard I played.
So I was just someone that, youknow, the teams just, you know,
like, damn, I gotta deal withhim tonight. That kind of thing.
You

Randall Kaplan (01:01:36):
had notoriety while you were playing as this
controversial, angry guy, andthere was an incident when you
were playing for the magic whereyou fake ball fake in front of
Kobe's face. Tell us about thatmoment. And then the moment
where he called you from a vlog,yeah,

Matt Barnes (01:01:49):
it was, uh, it was interesting because, you know,
I'm gonna back, put a littlebit. So COVID, I got to UCLA in
9798 and COVID there in 96 andyou know, it's well documented
that, you know, Shaq was kind ofthe, you know, obviously the man
at that point and gave COVIDhard time. So we would always
see COVID on campus at UCLA,like you would think he would
have went there. He was eatingthere, hanging out there,

(01:02:11):
getting the girls there,chilling there, working out
there, playing. I'm just like,damn. So I used to, he used to
come in and train in polypavilion after we were done
practicing. So I would sometimesgo back in poly and just watch
him. I'm just like, damn, thisdude's only two years older than
me. Like, he's fucking good.
Like, I would just watch COVID.
So it was an admiration atfirst, and kind of being able to

(01:02:31):
see him and like, oh, la, la. Wegot to see him grow from like a
boy to a man. So I was really ahuge fan of Coby at first,
because I just saw the work hewould put in. His mother worked
his ass off. So, you know, fastforward me making the league,
and I'm finally starting to playlike I didn't. I missed MJ by a
year. So COVID was the man. Sohe was the one that, back in
those those UCLA days when I wasplaying, he was a kind of the

(01:02:55):
barometer, like, man, if I'mgonna be able to I gotta be able
to guard someone like him. So,fast forward to 2009 Orlando,
versus the Lakers the yearbefore, they played in the
finals, and the Lakers had gotthem, so they were expecting
these teams to go back, andOrlando had reloaded. They got
me, Vince Carter and JasonWilliams in the off season, so
we were expected to compete inthe finals. So this is a march

(01:03:18):
game. You know, playoffsstarting April. So it was just a
chippy early playoff pup. Youknow, they were dubbing it as a
potential final preview, and wewere just going back and forth.
And knowing COVID, playingagainst COVID, COVID was a
mental giant. I mean, obviouslyphysically skilled, and worked
his ass off and can scores. Buthe was also did a lot of just

(01:03:39):
dirty COVID shit that the restwouldn't call because he was
COVID. He would elbow, grab, doall kinds of shit. And I just
got he had elbowed me and mysternum and, like, knocked the
wind out of me, and I wanted to,like, chase him down and beat
him up at that point, like,literally on the court. But this
one particular inbounds play,and it was dope, because we had
COVID last interview on all thesmoke, and we literally talked
that. It was the first time wehad ever talked about it, and I

(01:04:01):
told him, like, I wanted to fuckyou up. I wanted to fight you.
And he starts, kind of startedlaughing, but the whole thing
was, he was just doing shit thatthe rest weren't calling, and I
was getting called for, and Iwas pissed off, so I was just
like, I wanted to fight him. So,you know, the ball fake wasn't
premeditated. It kind of justhappened. We ended up winning. I
had a big three down the downthe stretch to clinch the game.

(01:04:22):
Fast forward, end of the season,we're in the Eastern Conference
Finals, and we lose to Boston.
So Boston and the Lakers play inthe finals. COVID gets his
revenge from a previous years oflosing to Boston. They win
again. And then that off season,contracts got little funny. I
was hurt. I was going to get acertain amount of money, and
then when it was my turn to reup, that money wasn't there
anymore. So I was a littledisappointed that I felt like I

(01:04:44):
had been lied to and let on. SoI was open to moving because I
wasn't. I didn't really, youknow, want the money that was
being offered at the time. SoI'm talking to Pat Riley, and
for context, this is the yearthat. It the under. You know, on
the low that the Miami Heat areforming their big three. So

(01:05:04):
LeBron is headed there, ChrisBosh is headed there. And I'm
talking to Pat Riley, you know,talked to D Wade one time, and,
you know, Pat's telling me,like, you know, our closing
lineup will be, you know, Dwayneyou, Mike Miller, Dwayne you,
Mike Miller, Braun and ChrisBosh. And I'm thinking, like, we
could do some damage with thatlineup. So I'm thinking that I'm
gonna go from Orlando, just upthe freeway to Miami, and I get

(01:05:27):
a call from a number I don'tknow. And people tell you now
that even know me, like, Isometimes I don't answer numbers
that I do know. But for somereason this day, I picked up the
phone and it was someone, what'sup is Matt there. I'm like,
this. Matt was like, Who's this?
He's like, it's COVID. Like, getthe fuck out of you. Like, who's
this? He's like, Nah, man, it'sCOVID. And then once he said it

(01:05:49):
again, I was like, Oh, it reallyis COVID. I was like, What's up,
man? He says, Ah, man, what'sgoing on? I was like. I was
like, congratulations on thechampionship. He's like, I
appreciate it. And we kind ofstart talking, you know, he's
like, anyone crazy enough tofuck with me is crazy enough? To
play with me, like, what are yougonna do this season? So this
season? So I kind of tell him, Imight be going to Miami. He's
like, Well, do you want to be aLaker, you know? And I told you,
I was raised a Magic JohnsonLaker fan. I'm like, hell yeah,

(01:06:10):
I want to be a Laker. Andliterally, like, three or four
days later, I was a Laker. Like,I had signed, flew out to LA,
signed the contract, and, youknow, that kind of began. And it
was weird too, because even upto this day. Like some people
like, oh, you you know, COVIDdidn't fuck with you, or you
guys weren't just, like, if theyknew how close we really were.
Like, he literally recruited meto the team. He recruited Ron
our test the season before he'sI guess he was just tired of

(01:06:33):
dealing with us assholes. He'sjust like, I'm gonna get these
two assholes on my team. So meand RON are Lakers now, but we
really got a chance to justbond. You know, we went from,
you know, an admiration I hadfor him because I saw his come
up, and then obviously therespect I had because he was the
best player in the league at thetime. But you know, just day to
day, seeing his work ethic andhanging out with him off the
court and going out. Andeveryone used to say, like, Yo,

(01:06:54):
COVID never went out. You usedto get COVID. Want to go out
with me, you know? I mean, everywe had a I had a tradition.
Every time I would we'd go onthe road, like, as soon as I
land, I'd go in the bathroom andput all the towels down to
smoke, because I was smokedevery time we landed. So COVID
would hit me like, Oh, what areyou about to do? You know, I'm
about to smoke. He's like, whenyou're done smoking, let me
know. Let's go do let's go getsome food and let's go out. He

(01:07:15):
smoke. No, he wouldn't. He toldme, If we won a championship
together, we would smoke. Butwe, unfortunately, we didn't.
But for some reason, he took tome and and I think, you know,
obviously we were super closeteammates, but I think we became
closer post career, because hestarted coaching Gigi and I was
coaching the twins, so we wouldalways go out to Orange County
and play. And, you know, onetime, yeah, so it wasn't a mama,

(01:07:37):
then that was just OGP outthere. Mom facility came later,
but I remember, backtrack alittle bit. I remember right
when I remember right when I gotto the Lakers, you know, COVID
took the twins in like they werehis, like it was always uncle.
COVID probably say the twinswere maybe four years old when
they started getting every timeCOVID released Austin and no,
this is Carter and Isaiah, everycity, yeah, Austin's the new

(01:07:59):
four year old area, four monthold, yeah, five months, yeah,
yeah. So, every time COVIDreleased a shoe, the twins would
get it. And then when theystarted playing basketball
teams, he was in the whole teamshoe. So, you know, fast forward
me being retired now, and assoon as I retired, I want to
start coaching my kids. So, youknow, he'd be out in Orange
County. We, you know, connectlike, yeah, what time you guys,
what time Gigi play tomorrow?
What time do you guys playtomorrow? And it would be
sometimes where we played twohours before we play the eight

(01:08:21):
o'clock or nine o'clock gameGigi might not play till 11 or
12. COVID be there at eighto'clock in the morning. Watching
these fucking eight year oldsplay like eight year olds is not
too much fun to watch, but thefact that he would come and
watch my kids play, it just itspoke volumes. And then
obviously, you know, I'd go andwatch Gigi play, and I surprised
the twins for their 10thbirthday with the with the
surprise workout from COVID, Ikept them home from school, and

(01:08:43):
they were just, what are wedoing? Super excited. They
didn't know where we were going.
Hour drive. They pass out on theway there. I tell them to wake
up and they get out, and we gointo this gym, and it's COVID,
and they just, Oh, my God, dad.
And he gave a he when I tellyou, he worked them so hard, he
made one of the twins cry. And Iloved it. Like I didn't step in
as a dad at all. I'm just like,take this shit, you know? I
mean, this is one of thegreatest ever do it, like,

(01:09:05):
listen to what he's doing. Andhe just kind of really became,
obviously, he was Uncle COVID tothe boys, but just the way he
loved my sons and supported themand always sent to this day, you
know, Vanessa has kind ofstepped up to where COVID left
off. Vanessa still sends theboys shoes all the time. She
just sent their whole highschool shoes. So COVID and I
were really close, and it brokemy whole heart, you know,
obviously that, you know, theworld felt it. But, you know, to

(01:09:27):
be as close as we were, and thento hear, you know, how it went
down, and they were traveling toa game and all that kind of
stuff. It just, it really tothis. It still gives me chills
to think about. It's just like,you know, you never think
superheroes are gonna die. Andyou know, we all lost COVID much
too soon. How are his kids doingtoday? To be honest, I don't

(01:09:47):
talk to the kids a ton. Youknow, Vanessa and I will, you
know, I'll text and reach outwith we, you know, we maybe text
once or twice a month, just out,I'll check in, you know, Hey,
how are you and the girls doing?
And, you know, kind of seeingthe progress. Because they're
kind of starting to build upCOVID, continue to build COVID
legacy on the Nike side, anddoing stuff with Nike and stuff.
So I'm always just kind ofchecking in and sending my love

(01:10:10):
to her and the girls. And youknow, from from the outside
looking in, they look likethey're doing great. Played

15 years in the league. The average player plays
4.8 years in the league. You outlasted lottery picks. Yeah, and
you said that is because youknow what your role is. How
important is it for anyone to besuccessful to know what their
role

is? I think that applies to life, to business,
and then obviously to the game.
I just think, you know, there's,there's, there's, there's
special players. And I don'tfocus it on our game. There's
just some guys that are Godgiven monsters, you know, you
look at Steph and you look atCOVID, Michael Jordan, those
guys are Kevin Durant. Can score30 points in their sleep, you
know, that doesn't wasn'tnecessarily my game, and I think

(01:10:51):
that's where a lot of guys loseit, is they have an idea of what
they want to be or what theythink they can do, but sometimes
the skill don't add up to that,you know? So I just found out
early on with that Golden Stateteam what my role was, what I
like to score more points andtook more shots, absolutely. But
that just wasn't my calling. Youknow, I used to once. I had
bounced around those first fouryears. Every time I got on the

(01:11:11):
team, I would, you know, Coach,what are you looking for me to
do? He would tell me, you know,I would go out and do that shit
and play defense. You know, betough note to be a death nose
defender, rebound, get looseballs, give us 5050, balls, and
knock down your shots, you know.
So there was sometimes twoshots, five shots, sometimes I
get 15 shots. But whatever was,just be efficient with your
shots and and play my role. So Ijust knew every time what my

(01:11:34):
role was when I was out there,and that's why I played until I
didn't want to play anymore, youknow. Again, I was never I was a
role player. I was a journeyman.
But not too often do you get togo out on your own terms. And
professional sports, sometimesit's, you know, you play until
you're too old and you're a goodplayer, and it's just time to
go. Or sometimes the mental getsinto it, or just sometimes they
just don't want you in theleague no more. But I was
someone who was a bad boy, and Igot to go out on my own accord,

(01:11:58):
I was able to actually go outwith two years left of my deal.
So when I retired in 2017 Istill had two years of being
paid NBA money, and that's whenkind of figuring out what was
next, you know, kind of kickedin. We'll talk

about that in a minute, but I still want to go
back. I want to talk about thewe believe team. Yeah, in 2007
you were elected captain of theteam that year. And I think we
all see the C, the letter C onthe jerseys, and I don't think
we know how that happened. Sowhat's the process of becoming
captain? Is it? You know, youput your vote in a hat. No one

(01:12:36):
looks at it. Raise

Unknown (01:12:37):
your hand. Normally, it's the best players. That's
it. Normally, it's the bestplayers, or just who the leaders
are. But if you think back onhow who decides, though, the
coach, the coach picks acaptain. But the crazy part is,
if you think about howsignificant me having a C on my
you know, being a captain was, Iwas the last invitee to training
camp that year. I'm the 20th guycoming into training camp, and I

(01:13:00):
even forgot I was a captain onthat team. It's crazy. You said
that like when it was all saidand done, like I was a captain
on a team that I wasn't evensupposed to be on, you know what
I mean? So it was just and whatwas funny about that, and I
don't ever want to seem like I'mmore than what I was, but
wherever I went, I was always avoice that can talk to the star,
but also was able to get guys torally around me, because I led

(01:13:22):
by example. I wasn't someonethat was going to talk your face
off or try to over talk becauseI knew what my role was, but I
would play hard as fuck, and Iwould do anything for my team.
So I just think I always gainedlike you said, Guys hated to
play against me, but they lovedto play with me because I was a
teammate that you wanted to goon the fox hole with, because I
wasn't going to be if they messwith you. They mess with me. We
know we're going to war today,and I just think I led by

(01:13:44):
examples. That's why I had a Ihad a prominent voice, and I
played with a lot of stars, butI was one of those few role
players that had the respectfrom the stars as well. I

think everyone thinks to be successful in life,
you got to be a superstar. Buttalk to all the non sports
people, how important is it tojust be a team player and be a
part and contributor to theteam? I

always, even in business now, I like to be a
small part of something big andthen a big part of nothing. You
know what I mean? I just Iplayed my role, and that's
important. That's veryimportant. I felt like I was a
blue collar worker in the NBA. Iwas one of those hard hat lunch
pail type guys, and I was ableto carry that, obviously,
through the league, but intobusiness, you know, being able

(01:14:29):
to just understand and being agood person. I think one thing
that gets overlooked, especiallywith professional athletes, is
understanding how powerful beinga good person is. I was someone
that always shook hands, alwaystook pictures, always signed
autographs. Because, as youstart, as I started going
through the NBA, I realized,like all these people sitting
around courtside, are peoplelike you and the owners of
Disney and big corporationpeople. So I just started

(01:14:52):
realizing that, you know, myfuture could be sitting
courtside tonight. So I wassomeone who, you know, I would
let kids come out and reboundfor me while I was. Warming up,
I passed the ball to people, andespecially too, because everyone
thought I was a thug or a badguy, so I kind of got to and
this is you, I think most ofthis is pre social media. You
mean, I didn't catch I caughtsocial media, like my last three

(01:15:12):
or four years in the league. Sowhat ESPN said about me, or what
the LA Times wrote about me waskind of like law, because I
didn't have a voice at thattime. You know what I mean. So
to be able to show people theother side or the softer side,
or just the articulate side orthe gentle side, I knew how to
kind of play that game early onand and I think I'm

(01:15:33):
aspirational, because you know,most of the you know guys like
Steph and LeBron and even COVID,like when the ball starts
dribbling, like their stardomwill lead them into whatever
their next venture is, andthey'll have a ton of success,
and not because they don'tdeserve it, but they're going to
get an opportunity becausethey're a star. I was able to
get those same opportunitiesbeing a role player by doing

(01:15:55):
everything I just told you, youknow, doing shit the right way,
and being respectable andshowing respect and giving love
and taking that extra moment totake a picture of maybe if I
don't want to, or sign anautograph when I'm tired, I just
kind of went out of my way toshow the world that pre social
media, that I wasn't thisvillain, that I kind of took on

(01:16:15):
a villain persona, and just toshow the person that it was
almost like, it's funny. I'llbacktrack a little bit. So after
I bought fake COVID, I got deaththreats. People don't come to
LA. We're gonna kill you, likeall this kind of wild shit. And
towards the end of my career,like I let the twins start
traveling with me, and they werehuge wrestling fans. They loved
they were always they werealways wrestling each other and

(01:16:36):
doing wrestling tricks and shit.
So I would take them on roadtrips, and they would be like,
Dad, why do the fans boo youwhen they announce your name in
the starting lineup? And I'mlike, damn. Like, what do I tell
them? And it just hit me,because they love wrestling. I'm
just like, well, daddy alwayshas to guard the best player. So
Daddy, every night has to, hehas to. I'm like, The Undertaker
that takes on Hulk Hogan. Youknow, I mean, like the best

(01:16:57):
players stars, or they're like,Hulk Hogan, but daddy's like,
The Undertaker, so, oh yeah, youwere black, and you go out there
and it didn't, so I just kind ofgave him that, like, I'm the guy
that you don't want to seecoming. I'm the guy that you boo
for because, you know, I'm gonnago out there and try to, you
know, make it, make it tough forthe best player every night. So
just them kind of seeing that,that and understanding that. But
I was given that villain role,and at first it kind of hurt,

(01:17:18):
because I didn't feel like I wasa bad person. But then I was
just like, shit, if just like,shit, if this is what it's going
to take for me to last in thisleague, like, let me be a bad
motherfucker then. So that'swhen I kind of started not
caring as much again, like Iwould this is when I would now
slap refs in the offseason, orexcuse I had to slap a coach one
time for in a summer league gamein San Francisco because he was
cussing at me from thesidelines, and people are like,

(01:17:41):
What the heck? Like, I went overliterally slapped him, like, I
just kind of started being like,you want to be you want a bad
guy. I'm gonna show you how tobe a bad guy. So I kind of
embraced that role, but at thesame time, it was in me, but it
wasn't who I was. So I reallytried to, at times, as I was
just saying, show people thefull repertoire of who Matt
Barnes was, was your

kids fly on the team plane? They

got, yeah, they got to the what team was that? Yeah.
So the team that was the dopestabout it was the Golden State
Warriors. At the very end, theywere on the team playing. They
were sitting up by the players.
Coach Kerr will let them comeand practice. I remember in the
Western Conference Finals. I'mstill getting treatment because
I'm not healthy. We're playingagainst Houston, and next thing
I know, look out there and thetwins are shooting with Steph
and KD like, on the court. I'mlike, What the fuck are you

(01:18:27):
like? I was about to call themback over, but Coach Kerr like,
just let him, let him do it. Sothey're over here shooting in
the Western Conference Finals. Iremember there was one game they
traveled before the playoffscame, and I was coming off the
bench for that team, and we werein San Antonio, and I guess they
wanted to start me on Kauai thatnight. So we were at Team
breakfast. And that teambreakfast after team breakfast,
the team normally watches film,so we're going through it. And

(01:18:48):
Coach Kerry even actually tellsa story when he comes on my
podcast, because I forgot aboutit. But the twins are in there.
We're eating, and they're eatingtheir pancakes and everything,
and we start watching film, andCoach COVID goes tonight, Matt,
you got Kawhi you're starting.
And, you know, I'm 15 yearsAnna, all right, Coach, I'm
ready. The fucking twins losttheir mind like they put their
forks down, jump up and down,smiling like, you know, daddy

(01:19:10):
had won a championship already.
So, you know, that was one ofthose times when you say, Do the
kids get to that was the bestpart of my career, was the last
three or four years that thetwins were around everything.
They were in the locker roomwith Coby. They were in the
locker room with Chris Paul andBlake Griffin and that lob city
team. They were in the lockerroom with Steph Katie and clay.
I remember we're in the was itWestern finals, or second round

(01:19:32):
of the Western finals againstSan Antonio, and we had just
clinched, I think, the Westernfinals, and I got out of the
shower, and I'm looking for thetwins, and they're over in clay
Thompson's locker, and clay isteaching them how to make paper
airplanes. And I'm just like,these kids don't know how
fucking lucky they are. Man,they're sitting here with one of
the great issues of all time,and clay is folding paper

(01:19:55):
airplanes out of the box scores,and they're throwing paper
airplanes. All over the lockerroom. I'm like, yeah, these kids
don't know how good they got it.
You talked

about playing for the Warriors, one of the
best organizations in the NBA.
How important is the quality ofthe organization in terms of
contributing to being a winningorganization? It's

everything, because I got to see two sides of it
when I went to the Warriors thefirst time. You know, I
wouldn't, I don't want to saybad if you're an owner, but just
not very good owners, and theydidn't. They paid the wrong
people and ran through coachesand always would sign the wrong
free agents. And then I go back10 years later, right before I
retired into new ownershipgroup, and Peter governor, yeah,

(01:20:36):
like when I tell you, likeeverything was taken care of,
like when I tell you, all theywanted you to do is focus on
basketball, like they took careof your ticket requests. No
matter how many tickets youneed, they'll take care of it,
food, all the treatment, likeanything you can ever imagine,
like when they think, whenpeople think professional
athletes and luxury, like someof it is not like when I first

(01:20:58):
played for the clippers, like wepracticed at Southwest college
out here, and we had to keep theback doors open so people didn't
rob our cars. Like when I firstplayed with the clubs with Donna
Sterling, it was trash. But fastforward back to goober and these
guys, like, they just took careof everything. Even when it came
to the playoffs. They chartereda whole entire private plane for
our families, and took care oftheir hotels and flights and all
this. And it was just like, itwas such an amazing energy, like

(01:21:22):
that warrior team. It was fun togo in on off days. Our entire
team would be in there. I'd beon off day, or I'd have off days
with other teams where no onewould show up, not even me. You
know what I mean, like. But withthis Golden State team, they
really caught lightning in abottle for those three or four
years where it was just youwanted to be around the team,
the energy was great. They laidout the ultimate red carpet for

(01:21:43):
you. But to answer yourquestion, it all starts at the
top. If you have, if you havefaulty leadership, you won't go
anywhere. Because I think ittrickles down. And you know,
especially being in business,you know, you're only as strong
as your you know, your weakestpiece. But I really think it
starts at the top, and thenthese guys just did absolutely
everything to make sure that allwe had to do was focus on
basketball. Well,

let's put down one level. Now, how important is
a coach actually contributesyour

success? It's important. And I think there's
different levels to it, becauseI've had guys that have been
very hands on, like a Stan vanGundy, super huge X and O's
guys. And whenever he talks, hestarts foaming out of his mouth
with the white shit. And youhave to kind of do this, but
he's really hands on. He wantsto call every single play every
single time. And I've got hadguys like Phil Jackson that kind
of sit back and let shit go, youknow, I mean, if you're on the

(01:22:29):
court, he trusts you. He'simplemented his system, and
he'll do his whistle if he needsto get your attention. Let's

go to December 10, 1995 you're playing the
pistons. You're with theGrizzlies, my pistons. 1.1
seconds to go, and you drain,swish a three pointer half
court, 47 feet away. Was thatthe highlight of

your career? No, it was. It was probably the wildest
so it was actually, so I shotthe I want to say, I shot the
ball with like three or fourseconds left, and after I hit
it, there was 1.1 so I actually,I technically shot the ball too
early. But the funny part was,like, looking but I didn't know,
because I was, you know, Igrabbed the rebound, and our
coaches are, like, screaming,call time out. But I just took

(01:23:08):
off dribbling. I didn't hearhim. I didn't care to hear him.
I was just ready to get out ofDetroit. And, you know, I went
in, and I saw these guys kind ofcollapsing on me, so I pulled up
from half court, ended updraining it, and then look at
the clock. You know, after theteam calls timeout, I'm like, oh
shit, there's still, like, 1.1seconds, like, I shot the ball
too early. But it was a coolmoment. You know what I mean, to

(01:23:30):
be able to, you know, obviously,anytime you hit a buzzer beater,
to win a game is dope, but youknow, my buzzer beater was a
little bit too early,

one of the most notorious and worst moments, I
think, in the history ofprofessional sports, was
something called the mouse atthe Palace of Auburn Hills,
crazy. So during that event,does your home dance? City,
town, yeah, my hometown, thePacers were playing the pistons,
yes. And fans were getting allover. Some guy was there and

(01:23:58):
went up in the fan went up inthe stand. I mean, he's 12 rows
deep when he starts beating on afan. Crazy moment. Matt is a
great guy, by the way. I know hewas a friend of yours. Is a
friend of mine. He lost asalary, a whole year salary. It
was just huge money. Then $3million today, you see a lot of
fan involvement and drawing offans on the court. You see it at

(01:24:19):
football games, people throwingbeer. You saw it at a football
game this past weekend, aDetroit Lions fan. Best team in
go lions. I'm a Detroiter sayingsomething to the Green Bay
coach. How far is too far? Canpeople who are sitting court
side be trash talking theplayers? And at what point does

(01:24:40):
it get too much. I think

it's that there's no line there anymore. And I'm
all for fan interaction. I thinkit makes the game better. But I
think last five, seven years,obviously the situation at the
in the palace was crazy. But Ithink people feel like I'm
paying all this money for thisticket. I can do whatever I want
here. And obviously you. Alcoholto that kind of mindset, and you
see unfortunate situations, fanssaying whatever. I mean, you

(01:25:07):
could talk trash all day, but Ithink now it's personal shots,
and obviously they're recordingwhen they say it, so if they get
a reaction, they can go viral.
So I just, you know, I feel likeathlete, or, excuse me, I feel
like fans. Some, this is not ablanket statement, but some fans
look at us like they try to pokeus like caged animals at the
zoo, like, let me see if I cansay some wild shit to make him
respond, and I'll film him andI'll go viral. Let me throw

(01:25:27):
something and see if I can hithim, and I can tell this story
to everybody. So it's a scaryline, because obviously you
never want to see something likethe malice in the palace. But
you know what? Fans are crazythese days, and I think and a
majority of fans are just goodfans. And if you want to scream
and yell and cuss at us, youknow, as an away team coming
into your home gym or homefield, I love it, but when it

(01:25:50):
starts getting personal, thenyou're taking personal shots and
saying just the mostdisrespectful stuff, and then
when you're throwing stuff,hopefully, fingers crossed, it
doesn't happen. But that's howpeople get hurt. You

can say, Hey man, you fucking suck. You could
fight. You can't talk aboutfamily,

family, kids, all that kind of you should have saw
how much shit was talked afterthe Derek Richards situation
initially, you know what I mean.
So it's just like you gottathere has to be some, you know,
rhyme or reason to it. But Imean, what kind of rules do you
implement if you're, you know,if you're a owner of a team, or
if you're an owner of a stadiumor an arena like, it's hard to
kind of where's the line todraw. So, I mean, you hope just,

(01:26:30):
you know, the morals of a personwould understand, or the
character of a person. But likeyou said, I mean, sporting,
which is supposed to be fun, andthen you go, and you add a
little bit of alcohol to thatand enhances the experience, and
you a little bit more braverthan you normally are, and you
say some wild shit. Sounfortunately, it kind of is
what it is. I don't see asolution for it, to be honest
with you. I know people who doget caught throwing stuff or,

(01:26:50):
you know, doing some stuff, getbanned or kicked out. But I had
a couple situations, you know,during my career where if I
would have got my hands onsomeone that would have said
something or through some itwould, it would have been
problems. So obviously, youdon't want to see that. We you
know, you want to come out andcheer for your team or cheer for
your players, and everyone makeit home safely. But that
definitely is a problem. And tobe honest, the rain, I don't

(01:27:12):
know how to fix it, or ifthere's actually even a solution
for it. Let's,

let's talk about money. And I'm going to go
through some numbers here aswell. On on the money, you made
little over $35 million over thecourse of your career. At the
beginning, you made three to500,000 your first few seasons,
pre tax, you blew a lot of that.
You said at the end of eachsummer, the money today is
crazy. In the NBA, you got $76billion new contract for the NBA

(01:27:39):
over 11 years, the players getby collective bargaining 51% of
all basketball revenues. Sothat's an increase this year to
last year, and every season,160% more revenues. We're going
to see the first 100 milliondollar salaries by the 2032 2033
season, Luca doncic is going tobe the first salaried NBA

(01:28:01):
billionaire. If you look back toyour career 22 years ago, when
you started, would you everwould have thought you're going
to see players making $100million a year in salary?

No, no, but I, you know, I credit that to,
obviously, David Stern's visionof being able to highlight
individual players in a teamsport. His goal was to always
make this game global. And if todo that, he needed to ride the
back of stars and, you know,magic. And Larry kind of started
it. And then MJ came, and thenCOVID came, and Braun came, and

(01:28:39):
all the young, great playerstoday, and Adam Silver has done
a great job of, kind ofcontinuing his vision to grow
the game globally. You see ahuge European influx, you know,
I think European players, andone of the last four or five
MVPs, though, not mistaken. Ithink it's beautiful. You know,
I'm not one of those older guys,like, oh, you know, fuck these

(01:29:00):
younger kids. And, like, I loveit because, partly because I
have five sons, you know what? Imean, so, or excuse me, six
sons. Now, you know, sohopefully one of them will catch
lightning in a bottle and beable to kind of tap into that.
But if you think, you know, Imade a little bit, you know, 35
million, like, Guys are gettingpaid more than one year now, you
know, I mean, like you said, andthen the next five years, the
guys are gonna be making $100million a year, which is insane,

(01:29:21):
but I just think it shows thegrowth of the game. And, you
know, it's really a global sportnow, and and the odds to make it
are crazy. You know, I just, Ifeel like we live in, obviously,
this social media driven erawhere negativity unfortunately
outweighs the positivity. Butyou just hear so much negativity
about professional athletesthat, but if you understood how

(01:29:41):
hard it was to especiallybasketball, like every,
literally, every kid in theworld now dreams to play in the
NBA. And you know, you gave somestatistic earlier, but it's just
like you're you're better offgetting struck by lightning than
making it in the NBA. So, youknow, my hat's off to all these
guys that play this game and whocontinue to grow. Of the game.
Would I like to see a little bitmore defense, absolutely. But

(01:30:04):
you know, these guys are superskilled and super talented, and
the money is reflecting that.

I think people have a tremendous misconception
of what comes down to the bottomline of an NBA players. Jason
Tatum, just signed the biggestdeal in NBA history, five years,
$315 million contract, $62.8million a year. So let's go
through what comes out of that.
You've got 23 point 2 million infederal taxes. You've got 4.7
million in a jock tax. That'syou got extra tax for the

(01:30:33):
privilege of being aprofessional athlete. You've got
$8.1 million escrow and agentfees. You've got $1.4 million in
FICA and Medicare deductions.
Your take home of that $63.8million is $25.2 million the
players get 40% of the contractvalue, insane.

And people understand that, like I and I
think it's dropped a little bit.
It used to be half. We used tosay, they say, we used to get
half, but any number you see,you chop it in half, and then
now it's chopping in half andtake 10 more percent. It's
crazy, especially living inCalifornia to California, it's
nasty out here with tax. But itjust is what it is. It's crazy.

(01:31:18):
But also, I don't, you knowthere was a stigma, not
necessarily a stigma, but youknow, guys back before me, and
even guys I played with, like,going broke was a big thing with
professional athletes, but Ithink financial literacy is a
huge part of professional sportsnow, and it's almost cool to be
aware and invest. And what areyou in? Like, when I was in the

(01:31:38):
league, and they're, you know,when I came in the early 2000s
we were talking about women,cars, rims and jewelry, you
know, with that Golden Stateteam, by the time I was leaving,
they were talking about SiliconValley and investments and
opportunity, and who's coming tothe game tonight, and what fund
is going to be there. I'm like,holy shit. I wish this would
have started a little bitearlier. You know what I mean,
like to be financially aware isreally cool now, which I think

(01:32:00):
is great, because these kids aremaking a ton of money and a ton
of opportunity and understandingthat, you know, they're, they're
their own business. They're awalking business every day. So,
you know, we, you know, you'reone of your producers. Asked
about n, i, L, S and all thiskind of stuff like, these kids
are getting crazy money,starting at a very early age
now. So I'm glad that there'ssome, there's some, there's some

(01:32:21):
guidance and some educationcoming with that, because it's a
ton of money. Let's

talk about female WNBA basketball players,
Caitlin Carl, Caitlin Clark, hascompletely changed the nature
and popularity of women'sbasketball. The NCAA Women's
finals last year, 18 point 9million viewers. Men's final, 14
point 3 million viewers. It wasthe most watched finals of any

(01:32:48):
men or women's game,professional game since 2019

Wow. I love it. I think it's great. The growth of
the women's game, it's beenhuge. And it's, you know,
there's a there's a handful ofwomen, but I think Caitlin Clark
is leading the charge. They saidshe was her said she was
responsible for like, 32% of therevenue boost in the women's
game this year, which isincredible, very humble, very
hard working girl who took a lotof shit at the beginning of the

(01:33:13):
season. I think there was a lotof jealousy, because people say
what they want. No, it's notthis. You can see it. You don't
have to say stuff. Sometimes youcan see it. And I remember I
made a comment, she was justgetting beat up, and it just
disgusted me that her teammatesdidn't have her back because I
was one of those guys, you touchCOVID, you touch CP, like I'm on

(01:33:33):
your head. You know what I mean,in the fact that this girl,
night and night, I was gettingbeat up, and her teammates
weren't even helping her off,off the court, like they were
just kind of, and I'm just, andI made a cut, and it went super
viral. This guy said it gotalmost over a billion
impressions that, how do you nothave your your teammates back,
you know, how do you not andand, you know, I think as the

(01:33:54):
season wore long, they kind ofstarted, you know, having her
back more, and then she startedcoming into her own, you know,
you hear all these, she can't dothis on this level. This is a
whole different level. This girlis special. She can shoot the
ball like Steph. She can passthe ball, and she's a
competitor. And she really justcame out, I think she won an
award the other day, and shecame out and said, Do you know

(01:34:14):
that the all this is coming offthe backs of black women in this
sport? I don't remember theexact quote. I don't want to
butcher the quote. You can lookit up. But she it up, but she
pays homage to who deserves tobe paid homage. I think she does
everything right, and that alonewill bother people, you know
what? I mean, they want to kindof try to find a flaw in
somebody. And I think CaitlinClark has been a huge, huge

(01:34:36):
instrumental key to just shininga light on a game that needed
more light shined on it. Youknow, these girls are extremely
talented, but I think they getknocked because they're not
athletic. But I would argue thatsome of these women are more
skilled than the men, because weget away with athleticism and
strength in our game. Thesewomen don't get it. These women
have to be skilled to be ableto, you know, succeed in their

(01:34:56):
game. So, you know, my hats offto not only Caitlin, but this
entire. Our league. I think it'sbeautiful. It gives my daughter
something to aspire to. Youknow, she's a basketball player,
and it just gives hope to a lotof young girls now that you know
that professional sports, andparticularly basketball, is an
option, and you know, if they'refortunate enough,

a lot of controversy, should she be on
the US Olympic team? I thinkpeople are just waiting to
destroy her if she opened hermouth. I think we all wanted to
see her on the team, because weall wanted to see her play. I
think all the fans wanted to seeher play. Then there's all.
She's now one of the best 12players in the US. And they
asked her, they asked her, andshe said, whatever they decide.

(01:35:36):
They decide, basically, I don'tdeserve to be there. I'll get my
chance in four years, Class Act

and again, that bought the fact that, and I hope
for No blunders at all. But shejust handled everything so well.
You know, whether that's her orher peer, PR team or just being
raised the right way, sheanswered every question the
right way. She didn't give nuttybut nobody no click bait or a
reason to hate on her, like shejust, she was a humble star in

(01:36:02):
the making. And I definitelythink they made a mistake not
putting her on the team, becauseshe's much watching. Then she
just brings so many eyeballs tothe sport. And it was just, you
know, you see, you see, therewas a lot of jealousy from
women, whether they be Hall ofFamers that are still playing,
or vets or even young people.
And it's just like, you know,they wanted to kind of show what
the deal was, but she showedthrough hard work and dedication

(01:36:23):
and being a good person, manthat you know that she is, and
she's gotten, gotten all thecredit that she deserves. I
mean, that's not to say that,you know, I'm a big fan of Angel
Reese, too, and the lane she'sbeen able to carve out for
herself, and then, like the AsiaWilsons and the women that have
been carrying this league foryears. I just think that people
needed to understand that, youknow, Caitlin was the vehicle

(01:36:44):
that brought more eyeballs. Youknow what? I mean, like it
because of her, you know, thingswill change in this game, you
know. And you hear changes like,you know, private planes for
some teams now, and she'sselling out arenas wherever she
goes. So, I mean, I'm all forthe growth, you know, or the NBA
has gone through, you know,extreme growth over the, you
know, the last 30 plus years,and the fact that I think the
WNBA is coming in their 28th and29th year. And, you know, they

(01:37:07):
have pretty much a new logo, youknow, I mean, she is the the
face of the league. I'm notsaying she's the best player. I
think one day she could possiblybe the best player, but she's
definitely, probably the face ofthe league and one of the most
popular athletes in the world.
And, you know, I'm just happyfor her and the rest of these
women that they're starting toget the eyeballs and attention,
and at the end of the day,that's going to drive up

(01:37:28):
revenue, 338,000

over four years.
78,000 per year. The averagesalary and WNBA is 147,000
average. It's crazy. MBA, 14point 3 million this year. Are
we ever going to see salaries? Imean, you can be, I not saying
it this way badly. Say a it'sback in the day, we'd say he's a
scrub, right? I mean, butaverage players making $14.3

(01:37:53):
million a year, unbelievable. Soare we ever going to see women's
salaries get it to the millionsof dollars a year.

I think millions. I think low millions. I think so.
I think the game has continuedto grow and and, you know, you
just have to, you have to getmore eyeballs on the game. And I
think that's what they'restarting to do. I think they're,
you know, the more sponsors areinterested in these women now.
And I do think that the salarieswill grow. I don't think we'll

(01:38:22):
ever see and I hope, I wouldlove to be proved wrong, but I
don't ever see us getting Idon't think off straight
basketball. I don't thinkthey'll ever be like a ten
million a year salary in theWNBA, but I can definitely see
it getting to, you know, three,four, possibly 5 million a year.
And again, I hope I'm wrong, butthe 10 thing, I hope these women
continue to climb the ladder andmake as much money as you

(01:38:43):
possibly can. But I just think,you know, they're definitely on
the right track. Now, if youlook back and you're 28 at the
NBA, where they were in year, 28of the WNBA were there, where
there's a lot of similarities.
And you know, you see how muchthis game has grown in the last
30 years. And again, I thinkCaitlin Clark and Andrew Reese
and this, this young crew thathave come are going to spark the
minds of a lot of young womenaround the world, and they're

(01:39:04):
going to continue to grow the

game. You've talked about life after
basketball. Tell us aboutmeeting with Brian Daly and that
aspect of your career, and howbasically, you didn't think it
was going to happen. Somethingjust kind of came. I didn't

know what was going to happen. You know, when I
first retired, I was a hugecannabis advocate, so I was
flying back and forth to NewYork to, you know, talk to the
NBA and the Players Associationabout just studying the plant
more and understanding thebenefits from the plant. Lo and
behold, in 2020 they finallystarted stopped. They finally
stopped testing. So I like tosay that, you know, maybe my
visits did pay off a little bit,but then I didn't really know

(01:39:43):
what I really wanted to do. Imeant a few small investments
that were, you know, that theywere kind of starting to turn
but I knew that I wanted to dosomething. Someone had nudged me
into getting into media. Youknow, you're always so well
spoken in your interviews. Youshould try doing sports media.
Yeah, I think back when I playedthere was this line in the sand.
Like we didn't really fuck withexcuse my language. We didn't
really mess with the mediabecause we didn't have a

(01:40:05):
rebuttal to whatever they wouldchange. You know, they could
take our words and do whateverwith it. And what they said was
it, you know, fast forwardsocial medias into play now. And
so I just wasn't really quick tojump in the media space. But,
you know, someone was reallypersistent on and pushed me into
doing it. And once I did it, it,it opened up my eyes and really
changed my life. It changed mypost career trajectory. You

(01:40:27):
know, did a little bit of foxthat was with ESPN for almost
three and a half four years.
Learned a lot about the businessof media. And so Brian Daly
comes into my life in 2000 Iretire in 2017 I meet Brian
Daly. And it was random,because, again, I was doing ESPN
at the time, and I did adocumentary for Showtime. I was

(01:40:54):
speaking for DeMarcus Cousinsdocumentary. And the producer
after he's like, Hey, I heardyou want to start a podcast. I'm
like, how did you hear that? Butyeah, I do. He's like, You need
to meet with my friend BrianDaley over at Showtime. I'm
like, like, Showtime, like thenetwork. They're like, yeah,
they just started a digitalcomponent called Showtime
basketball. I think you'd be agreat fit. I'm like, Well, shit,

(01:41:16):
I'm all for it. So he connectsthe dots. He flies out. Out
here. We meet at the Lowe'shotels in Santa Monica. We took
two or three shots at tequila. Ipitched them a man cave barber
shop, conversation with camerason it, and I had to smoke. I
wanted to be able to smoke. Iwanted to be the first athlete
on TV, like, really smoking. Andhe was all for it. And next

(01:41:39):
thing you know, we're shooting apilot, and we're off to the to
the races. So at the time, wereally didn't know what we had.
All the podcasts weren't new atthe time, but sports podcasts
were fairly new at the time. Iwant to say, like we were the
second one to maybe kind of jumpinto space. And, you know, I
always show left to theknuckleheads because I think

(01:42:00):
they were a little bit beforeus. But before us. But I really
feel like we came in this spaceand kicked open and started a
whole new wave of sports media,not just basketball, but sports
media, like when I came in tothe podcast space, you could
probably count, or in the wholeentire world, you could probably
count the sports podcast on yourhand. On one hand, there may
have been 2345, at the most. Andif you look at it now, who

(01:42:22):
doesn't have a podcast in thesports space, you know? I mean,
so we were one of theoriginators. You know, they like
to call us the OGS of the space,but I just love the fact that
we're here again. Because, andpeople say, you know, the space
is watered down, but I don'tnecessarily look at it as being
watered down, because I feellike every player in this space
has their own unique journey,their own unique story and their

(01:42:43):
own unique way of telling it.
And if I'm a fan, although Ilove the Stephen A and shout out
to Stephen, I think he's aboutto get a record breaking 120 $1
million dust my guy. Let me, letme borrow some. But, you know,
I'll take some of that, right,seriously. Like, as much as I
love these guys, like theydidn't play it at this level,
you know. So if I'm a fan, I'mthinking like, I want to hear it
from a guy that actually did it,you know, although there's a

(01:43:05):
place for these guys thatdidn't, that are well spoken and
versed in the subject. But ifI'm a down, hard, hardcore fan,
I love the fact that I canlisten to me and stack. I can
listen to Draymond. I can listento Paul George. I can listen to
Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett. Ican listen to Pat Bev and the
list goes on of JJ Redick wasgreat before he jumped on and
took the Lakers coaching job. Soyou're just getting a unique

(01:43:27):
perspective. You're allowing theplayers to create our own
narratives, and we're givingopportunities to all our
brothers and sisters to telltheir own stories. So we were
able to turn all the smokepodcasts our first year award
winning podcast. Four yearsafter that, we were able to turn
it into a whole company. So welaunched all the smoke
productions in January one of2024 and signed a nice, healthy

(01:43:50):
deal with Draft Kings, and we'vebeen on the move since. So we've
created about four or fiveshows. I have a slate of former
NBA stars. We've gone verticalin the NFL space. We just
launched our boxing space withAndre Ward and Roy Jones, so
they're heading that side. We'regoing to get into golf in 2025
so we've just, you know, we wantto be, in the next three to five

(01:44:13):
years, one of the mostauthentic, real brands that are
telling these stories. And Ithink we're off to a great
start. But, yeah, I really Itall started with, you know,
obviously me jumping into sportsmedia with ESPN and Fox, but you
know, Brian Daly taking a chanceon me. And, you know, when
Paramount came in about a yearand a half ago, they were coming

(01:44:34):
in and you're hearing, no,they're gonna, you know, they're
gonna take over Showtime. Orwe're not really sure. So we're
thinking, like, Damn, we startedsomething good. Are we gonna be
done? So when that you kind of,you start, you kind of you start
hearing the uncertainty? I'mlike, Well, no, I'm going to
start my own company, andregardless, we're going to be
straight. So I started withmyself and Jelani McCoy all the
smoke productions. And then whenShowtime went under, I got Brian
Daley, the guy that gave me theopportunity to come and be the

(01:44:57):
third co founder with us, and welaunched all. Smoke productions.
What's

your advice to everybody who wants to want to
take a chance on them? Whatshould they be doing? You got

to take a chance on yourself first. You got to
believe in yourself,particularly if we're talking
this pod in multimedia space. Imean, there's a ton of talking
heads now. There's any subjectyou can find a podcast on it
now, but to me, I don't thinkit's, it's, it's oversaturated,
because if you can talk and youhave a unique story, they're
gonna, you know, your voice willbe heard. So study, prepare for

(01:45:30):
this. You know, this is a realpeople think, oh, podcasts like
podcast. You know, podcasts arework. You gotta do a lot of
research. You gotta get abuilding, you gotta have all
kinds of different cameras. Yougotta have great producers. But
again, I was someone who learnedthe front and back side. I
learned this side of it, and Ilearned your side of it, but I
also learned the business sideof it, and understanding what
our worth was, and being able tobe the first one to got. I got

(01:45:52):
our podcast paid for the digitaland audio that hadn't been done
in the space before. So I got anI Heart deal and a Showtime deal
to double up our revenue. Sothere's just, you know, being a
student of the game, you know,humbling yourself and
understanding, man, you got toput the work in in this space if
you want to make it.

Back in the 80s, 40% of NBA players were doing
cocaine. Who and the statisticssay as high as 70% were doing
cocaine. According to TheWashington Post, are drugs still
a problem in the NBA? No,

and that's not to say some of these recreational
drugs that aren't allowed in thegame aren't happening, because
we don't know what everyone doeswith their own time, but I just
know, again, I was an advocatefor this plant. You know,
obviously I always tip my hat toRicky Williams, because I think
he was before his time. Youknow, he pretty much lost his
career with the mammy offensefor kind of standing up for

(01:46:46):
cannabis and the benefits of it.
But I just think this plan istremendous. And again, there's
several different ways to useit. I think it, you know, this
plan has something for ourchildren, all the way to our
grandparents, and I love thatthe professional sports league,
if I'm not mistaken, none of thethree major sports in the United
States test for it anymore,football, baseball and

(01:47:09):
basketball. I think it's not abanned substance anymore. So I
just think it's a greatalternative, because we all know
the biggest epidemic we have isthe opioid epidemic, and
firsthand can tell you that, andI didn't even play football.
Football guys said that it wasworse than what we had. But they
will give you absolutelyanything to get you back on that

(01:47:29):
court, whether it be toward allVicodin, anything you can
imagine, oxy cotton, thevoucher, the via tracks that
they used to tear it like theywill give you anything to get
you back out there. But then atthe same time, if you smoke weed
back when I was playing, yourisked your career, you risked
the fine. You risk beingsuspended. So I think the game
has come a long way in thatspace, I would say, Now, from

(01:47:53):
that 80 statistic, I'd probablysay like, yeah, 75 80% of guys
do use it. Now, it was reallyhigh when I was playing, but it
was kind of like an unspokenword, like you kind of just knew
who smoked on each team, and ifyou would kick it with them, you
guys would rally up. But it waskind of like you really had to
be prepared, because you getfour random drug tests. So you
know me, and you go out tonightafter a game, and we go grab

(01:48:14):
dinner, and then after we goback to the room and smoke a
joint, we could get tested thenext morning and be like, oh
shit. So it was a, it was a fulltime job. I used to have to keep
a drink from GNC on me. Thatwould flush my system, and I
would pay my trainers at thebeginning of the season. Like,
you know, tell me if I'm if I'mgonna be up. So the drug program
got hip to that. So theywouldn't give us the players,
and they wouldn't give theplayers names. So they would

(01:48:35):
just say hey, like, hey, youknow, we're coming to test your
team today. So I had to prepareevery time that, every time the
drug people came to our team, Ihad to prepare like I was being
tested. So it was a wholeprocess of down in this drink
that made you want to throw up,and then drinking a bunch of
water, and then you'd pee abunch of times, and then for
like six hours, you had a windowof clean pee. And that got me
through my entire career.

We talked about COVID. Did the last interview
before he passed on your show.
Who are your favorite podcastguests? Top three,

COBE Snoop, who else had me rolling? Probably
Jamie Foxx. He just had a newNetflix special shout out. What
had happened was, you know,obviously Coby for several
different reasons, and the factthat it was supposed to be a two
part. You a two part show. Thefirst part we shot with him was
like 40 minutes, so we weresupposed to actually do a part

(01:49:28):
two. And, you know, obviouslyhis untimely death, we weren't
able to do that. So that'ssomething I always hold near and
dear to my heart. Snoop was theone that kicked the door open.
So although I told Brian Daleyat the beginning, we have to be
able to smoke, he said it wascool. But Showtime, you know,
Showtime legal said, Get out ofhere. Like you guys aren't
smoking. So we couldn't smoke onour show for the longest time,
until Snoop came and smoked,like, eight months on our show,

(01:49:51):
and we're like, fuck it. IfSnoop's doing it, we're gonna do
it. And we that was the firsttime we smoked on camera, and we
haven't looked back since. SoSnoop kind of opened the door
shut out. He. Opened the doorfor us to be able to smoke on
the show. And then we caughtJamie Foxx during the pandemic,
and I think that's where all thesmoke really took off. We
started showing, you know, airin two shows a week when
everyone was looking forcontent, and we got Jamie on a

(01:50:12):
remote interview, but he justhad us laugh in the entire time.
So those are three that come tomind quickly, but if I think
back to more. You know, I justfeel ran out in this space. I'm
so lucky because I'm a fan ofalmost all the people on the
show, and I just get an in depthlook at their lives more than I
would. And that's what I was soproud about the COVID interview,

(01:50:33):
is because I knew the world gotto know fans knew Black Mamba.
They didn't really get to knowKobe, the dad, the business man,
the locker room teammate. And Ialways, you know, I we pride
ourselves on humanizing ourguests and being able to show
our fans the side that theydon't always get to see. So, you
know, I'm so lucky that I get tosit here and interview people

(01:50:53):
and get paid good money for it,and just get to learn more about
interesting people. That's

one of the benefits of my show as well. I
mean, I get to meet amazingpeople, to know you better, and,
yeah, be able to get to knowMike Tyson, Kiki Tyson, and some
of these other people. MarkCuban, it's been, just been, I'm
gonna

flip it on you.
What would have been your yourfavorite interviews, because I
know I saw your list is prettycool too. Yeah. I

mean, you asked me, right when, when, when I
made for the first time, and Isaid, it's like trying to pick
your favorite kids. Yeah, right.
And when I say to people is Ihave different people from all
walks of life. So I've got thecorporate guys, the big CEO of
Goldman, Sachs. I got theprivate equity guys, David
Rubenstein. I've got venturecapitalists like Tim Draper. I
have athletes on my show,actors. I have the world's

(01:51:36):
greatest bowler. I had thenumber one and number two, male
number one male and femalepickleball players on my show,
and it's, I don't have afavorite. And what's interesting
to me, Matt, is some of what Ithink are my worst shows that I
really didn't like at all. WhenI asked people, oh, that was my

(01:51:57):
favorite show that you did, andI'm not going to mention one in
particular, but I was justknocking my head against the
wall like, this is the mostboring show in the world. This
guy is no personality in theworld. People love trying to get
him to laugh. And I've gotpeople who love that show. And I
thought I did a terrible job,and I thought he was terrible.
So it's never know, but youknow, I have a wish list too.

(01:52:18):
I'm sure

you have one too.
Of course, some of the peopleyou hope to get, like, I want to
get

Elon Musk would be, and I'm my number one. The
other rock would be, would beway up there. Yeah. I mean, Tom
Brady is up there, obviously, as

well. Yeah, that's fine. I mean, curry is on

the list as well. You know, it's my list is
very long. I have people in themedical field, government in the
field. George Peterson, TonyRobbins, is top five for me. I
like him, and I will nail himthis year. I've got a list. I'm
very motivated, hit list, the2025 hit list. I've got the 2025

(01:53:03):
hit list we're getting here theend of the show, I want to talk
about some of the things thatmake us successful. One of the
things that's contributed mostof my success is something
called extreme preparation,where someone may prepare for a
podcast one hour. I'm 14 onaverage for my show, wow. How
has extreme preparationcontributed to your success? And

(01:53:24):
can you give some examples?

I mean, I thought you did great today. I mean, you
were probably one of the mostprepared people that I've sat
down with, for you to know, frombirth to current. Matt Barnes
like that, and I'm sure you'relike this with all your guests,
man, it's very impressive, andit's appreciated because, again,
you've asked me questions that Ihaven't been asked before. So I
always appreciate readiness andpeople that really put the work

(01:53:48):
in preparation, I thinkeliminates fear. You know, when
you put the work in, I feel likeyou could take on anything, and
I think that the discipline Ilearned as an athlete has
transitioned to so manydifferent walks of life, but
particularly life afterbasketball, I think. And that
was one thing COVID And I talkedabout too, we just like, you
know, we take the discipline toget up at five in the morning

(01:54:10):
and jump on the track or get inthe right room, and now we get
up at five and we're jumping onemails and making sure we, you
know, we reach back out topeople and, you know, stay on
top of that. So I've been ableto take the discipline that took
me to the top of oneprofessional space and applied
it to this next space, which is,which is media, and for me to be
the the bad guy the NBA or therole player, the journeyman, to

(01:54:36):
be one of the most trusted andtop voices in Sports Media, I
don't, I don't take that forgranted, but I owe that to
preparation and dedication andreally just trying to apply
myself and challenge myself. Youknow, I want to be, you know,
one of the best in this space. Idon't have to be the best, but I
just want to be one of the best.
And I think more important isbeing one of the trusts. It, you

(01:54:58):
know, to be able to have a widerange of voices, from COVID to a
Kamala Harris to rock is on myhit list, too, Jack. I just
think the range of people we hadspeaks to you know, how well
we've done and how we'vecontinued to elevate and grow
our show in a very saturatedmarket. So preparation is key to

(01:55:20):
life, to being a father, tobusiness, to being an athlete. I
mean, the last thing you want todo is is to be under prepared,
and that shows when you areunder prepared, but it also
shows when you're prepared. Soit's not something I take
lightly. It's something I'msorry. I don't know. I'm not

(01:55:40):
gonna lie, give you 14 hours,but I definitely will put the
work in to help create therundowns and change what I don't
like and add stuff that I dolike, and really make sure that
I'm prepared for each and everyinterview we sit down and do,
one

of the things that I think makes us
successful, and really a lot ofpeople don't talk about is one
of the challenges that you havegone through in your life. You
had an incident with Eric Fisherthat was very unpleasant, highly
publicized. So I'm going to talkabout him, the first one where
he was dating your ex wife andyou didn't know about it. He was

(01:56:16):
a former teammate. He drove 90minutes to

no see him. Kanye West made that an urban legend,
but go ahead.

Okay, then, then, then you drive 90 minutes.
You're gonna, you're gonnacorrect me on that, yeah. And
you go, there's a barbecue inthe backyard. You go, beat the
shit out of them, basically. Andhere you are, years later, where
he is a second father to yourkid and a coach. So my question
to you is, how important isletting bygones be bygones and

(01:56:43):
heavy forgiveness and oursuccess and our mental

health, huge, huge growth. I mean, you know, hate
is a hairy, heavy burden tocarry for anybody. It's an added
weight. It's an added stressthat's not needed. But
forgiveness. I don't, I don'thate anybody, you know, I think
we're all here for a smallamount of time and trying to
figure it out the best way wecan. You know, the Derek
situation was unfortunate. Youknow, I only drove 15 minutes
Kanye rap that I drove 90minutes and 90 miles and turned

(01:57:09):
it into an urban legend. But youknow, what I'm very proud to say
is, you know, that incidenthappened at the beginning of one
season, and by the followingsummer, with it was water under
the bridge. You know what Imean? And I think the key to
that was, you know, I'm alwaysmy most important. I didn't like
the fact that he dated my exwife and but I was willing to
forget that. But the fact thathe was around my kids and didn't

(01:57:29):
tell me was what really botheredme. So, you know, when that
first happened, I'm always, youknow, I'm talking, how's
everything, and everything'sgood. And, you know, and it got
to a point where, you know, theboys was like, like, how do you
feel about Derek? She's like,Dad, we love Derek. He's great.
And I was just like, amazing.
And that's all I needed to hearto, you know, go and squash the
beef. You know, I mean, becauseit wasn't about how him and my
ex wife are now married, and itwas never about that. It was

(01:57:51):
about my kids and them being thepriority and the pride and joy.
They were my only two kids atthe time. So the fact that my
boys loved them, it gave me, tome a path to go mend the bridge.
And you know, I was the firstone to kind of reach out to him.
And you know, we both set ourpieces and shook hands. And you
know, people know that's we'regoing on 10 years now, since

(01:58:11):
that happened, and it stilltalked about like it happened
yesterday. But he is my kid'sstepfather. He's their head high
school basketball coach. Icoached him in the summer, and
he's one of their dads. And, youknow, I was so real when we
squashed the beef, I was stillplaying. I'm just like, bro, you
see my kids more than I do.
Like, you have to be thatGuiding Light that father figure

(01:58:31):
teach them discipline, manners,morals, and it's gonna take a
village to raise these boys. Andit's, you know, your job, and my
ex wife's job and my job at thetime, I was single, and now I
have a fiance to kind of raisethese and be productive, good
young men in this world. Andthat is, to be honest, that's

(01:58:52):
probably one of the proudestthings that I think I've
accomplished, was to be able toturn that into a good situation,
because people have died overshit like that for less, you
know what I mean. So for us tobe able to have the issue, we
had to be able to squash it andto him to be such an integral
part of my kids life, and himtreat them so well that they

(01:59:12):
love him now. And I have noissue with that. I encourage it.
I just say especially for me,because, like I said, I was, I
was the one that was ready to goat all times. You know what I
mean, but for me to kind ofexhale and understand the bigger
picture, and it was always formy kids and the kids my the kids
saying that they love him andthey like him, kind of gave me
the okay to Okay. Well, he aslong as he's good to my kids,

(01:59:33):
I'm good with them as

parents, the only thing we care about,
really, is the emotional, whichis not often talk about as much
as it should be in physical wellbeing of our kids, anybody who
does anything nice for our kidsis something that we appreciate
as parents absolutely. And Ifeel like there's no nothing
better than you can do as afavor to a friend of making some

(01:59:56):
cool, special moments. Yes, youknow for your kids, could you
remember?

Remember for so long. You know, I remember the
first autograph I got from aprofessional athlete was Jawan
Howard. Think I was 16. I wentto a Kings game, and then he was
nice enough to pick me out ofthe crowd. And so I just think
these small dresses, and I thinkI mentioned it earlier in this,
all these people sitting aroundthe court, you know, I mean, I'm
their kids. If they're theirkids, I'm, you know, messing
with them and letting them comerebound for me, or let them take

(02:00:21):
a shot, and it's just this isstuff that they're going to
remember for the rest of life.
And you never know how smallthat small gesture could come to
come full circle. You know, atan unexpected time,

we see nepotism in the real world all the time.
At our companies, there's nosuch thing as nepotism. It's a
complete meritocracy. Is Bronniereally the product of nepotism,
after throwing down 4.1 points agame in an unremarkable single
season at USC, where there werefive players at least on the
team better than he is.

If he is, I'm okay with it, because we live in a
world filled with it. And ifanyone deserves to have that
kind of carpet rolled out fortheir kids, it's LeBron, what
he's been able to pour into thisgame the last 20 years, to be a
star who over exceeded the hype,to be a high school sensation
and still again. Knock on wood.
I hope there is no slip ups. Youknow, how do you were the face

(02:01:13):
of a league for so long? Andthere is, there's no bad dirt on
him, like he's always donethings above board the right
way. He's looked out for hisfriends. He's done everything
given this game, everything.
He's the leading scorer, topfive in assists. He's just been
so great to this game. I lovethe fact that he has given but

(02:01:33):
what I will say is he's givenhis son this opportunity. But I
think his son knows that, youknow, Daddy's not going to be
around for too much longer, youknow what I mean, so he's going
to have to put that work in, andI think he will to be able to be
a night in, night out guy. Ithink people are looking at it
wrong. If you think bronny isgoing to be the next coming of
LeBron, he's not. I think bronnycan be a very solid and have a

(02:01:53):
good long career being a solidrole player. He's got a high
basketball IQ, he shoots theball, he plays defense, he plays
hard. He can find the space inthis league, but he's going to
have to work his butt off. Butoff. But if it is nepotism, I
love it, because I've always,we've always seen it at all
different levels. You know, wesee owners handing the teams
down to their kids all the time,and other opportunities in
business that happen, but younever had the chance to see it

(02:02:15):
in the NBA, and we got a chanceto see it in the NBA. And as a
father, I love it. I wasplaying, I started playing
pickup basketball game maybe twosummers ago, and I started
having my twins play with grownmen, because I wanted them to
get prepared for high school.
And I remember there was one dayjust this past summer where we
were on the court and the twinswere with me, we were kicking
everybody's ass. And I justimagined, like, this is so dope,

(02:02:36):
and I'm playing in a smallpickup gym in Chatsworth. I
couldn't imagine doing this onthe biggest level, and it just
really made my admiration growfor what Brom was able to do and
have a chance to play with hisson.

So tell us about the documentary about Tupac that
you CO produced, and tell usabout the poem The Rose that
grew from concrete, and why thatmade you so emotional, man,

Tupac is just one of those. I wish I got them on
my hand. Here is one, is one ofmy favorite people, huge Tupac
fan, and just the ups and downs,the trials and tribulations he
had been through, you know, withthe way he was raised and what
he stood for, I feel like theworld would be different if he
was still here. I think he wasthat powerful. I think he was a

(02:03:17):
leader of men and women. He wasbefore his time, and he made
great music. I think Tupac madea he had a song for every human
emotion we have. I mean, he canhave you ready to shoot
somebody, ready to fightsomeone, but he also has you,
you know, caring for singlemothers and your mom and again,

(02:03:37):
everything in between that. Sohe was just so his range was
crazy, not to mention a greatactor. I think he would have
been a star in Hollywood had hehad more time. So I just think
he was a well rounded black manthat I looked up to, and a lot
of people looked up to. Andagain, obviously, I think caught
up in this, this la street ganglife, which is absolutely no

(02:04:02):
joke. If you're not in it, stayout of it. If you're in it, try
to get out of it. It's it's it.
You know, it's taken too manypeople, but I think he got
caught up in the in the LAstreet life and La street
politics. And, you know, he wastaken from us too soon. So great
man. Wish he was still here. Gota chance to work with his or his
estate, and a couple projectsthat I've done, and, you know,

(02:04:25):
made friends with the people TomWally and the whole crew that
runs that shout out, you know,to them, you know, they're
great. And, yeah, just always bea fan of Tupac. Talk to us about
the poem that rose that crew.
Yeah. I mean, it's just, it's,you know, you never think that,
you know, a rose can growthrough concrete. And I think
it's just a metaphor for kidsthat grow, you know, being able

(02:04:51):
to flourish through a lot ofbullshit. And I was someone who
was able to flourish throughviolence, drugs, abuse, poverty,
and. Make it. And I think that'sa, you know, a symbol of, you
know, roses are supposed to growin dirt and be watered and then
have the right amount of sun.
And you know, for rose to growthrough concrete, you know, it
means you were, you were meantto be here. And, you know,
again, Tupac had, you know,sayings and poems and songs for

(02:05:16):
every emotion.

You're a great dad. We've talked about our
families before. We've hadseveral conversations, lots of
texts about our kids. You'reyou've called your family the
black Brady Bunch. Yeah, you'vegot athletes in your family. And
what's interesting, you've gottwo twins who want to play pro
basketball, and you've gotanother son who wants to play
football and wants to buy you abunch of Lamborghinis if he

(02:05:42):
makes it. Yes, Ashton, so howgood are your kids, and are they
going to make it? And what'syour advice to parents who push
their kids and really shouldn'tbe doing it?

Unknown (02:05:51):
Um, I wasn't one who pushed my kids at all. You know,
I don't think, I think today,that everything is so sport
specific, and you're in onelane, and you have to make it,
and if you don't train in thatsport, you get behind. I was
someone, as you said, I playedall four sports growing up, and
I think every sport contributedto the one. I was blessed to be
able to play professionally, soI never pushed my kids. You

(02:06:12):
know, the twins, they werearound the game a lot, so they
had a good high IQ, they couldshoot the ball, but they didn't
want to. They're six. They justturned 16 about two weeks ago,
three weeks ago, they didn'tstart working out until they're
almost 13 years old, becausethat's not they didn't want to,
and I wasn't gonna You better godo like, and I started coaching
them when they were about eightyears old, and I'd have parents
tell me, oh yeah, my kid worksout six days a week. I'm like,
that's more than I worked out asa professional. Like, you're

(02:06:34):
making this you're making it ajob too early. I think a lot of
times parents would try tovicariously live through their
kids in sports. And I just thinkit's it's nasty. This whole
American sports system is crazy.
It's year round. Now it's toomany games. Kids don't learn
enough. And I think that's why Isaid earlier. Like you see this
European influx, and theseEuropean players coming over to
have a success, because we livein a country where a kid will

(02:06:56):
play six basketball games, threeon Saturday, three on Sunday.
Overseas, these kids willpractice five days a week and
play one game on the weekend. Sothese kids really understand the
game. Coming over here, our kidsare very talented and skilled,
but they lack IQ and anunderstanding of the game. So I
just feel like you know thatthis system is crazy to get to
your point when my kids make it,I hope so, if that's what they

(02:07:19):
want to do, regardless, I'mgoing to be supportive, but it
takes a lot of hard work. Andnow that they are they, you
know, they have the dedicationand the drive to want to do it,
I'm putting them in position.
You know, not only do I workwith them, but I find them, you
know, the best trainers aroundto, you know, help, hopefully
fulfill their dreams. And it'sdope, because although my dad

(02:07:39):
was there, he wasn't there, likeI never played catch with my dad
or shot hoops with my dad when Iwas little. So that shit didn't
exist for me. So everyopportunity I get now I'm with
him. I'll take him to train.
I'll watch him train. I'll trainhim. You know, the little
Ashton, he just turned six. Youknow, if he wants to go out and,
you know, in the side yard andshoot some hoops, I'll do it.
You know, my step kids all playsports. So I just want to,

(02:08:01):
really want to be a presentfather. I think, you know,
Fatherhood has been the greatestthing to ever happen to me, and
I learned a lot of things not todo, you know, from my childhood.
And I just tried to apply and bethe best father I possibly can
to be present. You know, moneyis great, but time is more
important. And, you know, again,not only teaching my kids how to

(02:08:21):
be solid athletes, but be solidcitizens and good people,

there's no better investment, I think, that
we can make in ourselves than inour kids. If you have kids, and
someone told this to me before Ihad kids, and they said, you'll
really understand the meaning oflife once you have kids. And for
all the people out there arelistening and watching the show
who don't have kids. I'm tellingyou, there's no truer statement
that anyone has ever said to mein my life.

I think, not only life, but true love. You know,
obviously you can love yourspouse and then and but when you
see your child being born andstart to see them grow like,
I've never experienced that typeof love, like, I'm obviously in
love with my fiance and ready toget married. I love her to
death. She puts up with my crazyass. But to have a child like, I
feel like you never know truelove until you have a child,

(02:09:11):
it's the best,

amazing. All right, we're at the end of our
show now. I always finish myshow with a game I call fill in
the blank to excellence. Are youready to play? Yes. The biggest
lesson I've learned in my lifeis believe in myself. My number
one personal goal is continue tobe a great father. My number one
professional goal is to

be the best production multimedia agency in
the game. My

financial goal is to

be able to have my kids and grandkids comfortable
when I leave. My biggest regretis not signing a prenup in my
first marriage.

I love that one.
My biggest fear is

I don't have a biggest fear, to be honest with
you. I think that God hasprepared me for whatever has
thrown my way and I got tohandle it the. That's my
abilities. The proudest momentof my career is proudest moment
of my life is becoming a father.
The

craziest thing that happened in my career is,
man,

a girl was in my closet when I got to Phoenix, in
the hotel room, in a hotel room,she got in, she got in my room,
and she was in the closet. Wasshe naked? No, but she was
attractive when I had to kickher out initially, but it ended,
I ended up messing with her acouple months

later. I've never told that the stalker
becomes relator, yeah, allright, that's a
you have to put a disclaimer outthere to all the women watching
this show. Probably not a goodidea, man. Oh yeah, that bad
business. The funniest thingthat's happened in my career is,
oh, we're

in Miami, and I wasn't playing a lot, and I got
in at the end of the game, andwe was a blowout, and I was
pissed. I was even in there, andI went to close out on someone
kind of half assed, and theyshot faked, and the three point
line had jumped up and trippedme and like I fell into the
stands. So I was pissed. I wasembarrassed. My teammates were
making fun of me. But now I lookback on it was funny.

The best advice I've ever received is,

man, if you don't believe in yourself, who's gonna
believe in you? 10 years fromnow, I'm going to be doing, 10
years from now, I'm going to becoaching my kids and making
great content. 20 years fromnow, I'm going to be doing 20
years from now, I'm gonna be ona big lake house, drinking
lemonade, smoking joints andwatching my grandkids run
around. If

you could pick one trait that contributes to
somebody's success, what wouldit be discipline? If you could
pick one trait that contributedto your success, what would it
be belief, the one thing I'vedreamed about doing for a long
time, but haven't, is just

continuing to win financially. I want to continue
just to make a bunch of money.
The

best player currently in the NBA is jokic.
The best player of all time isI'm

gonna leave it up to you guys. I throw LeBron,
Michael Jordan and COVID.
However they land is up to you.

If you could go back and give your 21 year old
self one piece of advice? Whatwould it be you

Unknown (02:12:10):
can't take care of everybody. If

you could meet one person in the world, who
would it be, to be honest

with you, I want to have a conversation with
President Trump.

My next question was going to be, if you were
President Trump today, what'sthe first thing you would do
when you got into office

in racism? I don't even know if that's even
possible. That's what I try to

do. The one question you wish I had asked
you but didn't, is, I think

you did a great job today. Man, you were prepared.
You asked me everything. Arethere

any questions that you want to ask me on my
own show? That's a new thing I'mdoing on the show here. I

want to learn how to make as much money as you so
you don't have to talk about itnow. But I need a mentor, man,
let me get under your wing andlearn from you. I

appreciate that.
I love mentoring. I lovecoaching. You're an amazing guy.
Appreciate that. I'm excited toplay pickleball together. I
mean, we got

to do that. We got to do that. I'm definitely
excited. I mean, it's been apleasure, man, for us to kind of
meet through a mutual friend,and us to kind of hit it off the
way we did without knowing eachother at all before it's it's
something I really value. Anddefinitely looking forward to
learning some more from

you. Yeah, I'm looking forward to getting the
families together too. Yeah,let's do it. Appreciate it.
Thank you. Appreciate it. Nodoubt. You

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Matt Barnes: Why Success Is Built on Failure, Resilience, and Hard Work | E152

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Matt Barnes: Why Success Is Built on Failure, Resilience, and Hard Work | E152