Mike Posner on "Cooler Than Me," "I Took a Pill in Ibiza," and His Walk Across America | Podcast Interview | E113 - In Search Of Excellence

Episode Transcript
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Mike Posner (00:00):
sorority girl that do my mother.

(00:03):
And Big Sean, all of the samething I made, I think I might be
honest, cooler than me was asong I wrote. Basically, it's
about feeling left out. That'show I felt my whole life and
never felt like I belonged. AndI put it online was MySpace at
the time. I didn't think thatmuch of it and he said, Mike, we
were at a party last night I wasnot at because when other kids

(00:24):
would go out to the parties, thedorms were quiet and I could
record so I was not at theseparties and we're at the party
last night and they played yoursong and everyone knew the word
had chills by the way is you'retelling me this story. Now
depression is not somemysterious disease. It was a
habit and I changed the fuckinghabit. This is not a peer
reviewed published study duringmedical school. Yeah, this is

(00:47):
this is the Mike Posner Schoolof trying to make my frickin
life better. Depression has ahard time surviving under 40
degrees with my dreams where Igo to college and we get a job
and make money. Compare that tomy real life walked across a
continent climb the tallestmountain on Earth and six
platinum songs nominated forGrammy and beyond all that happy

(01:08):
I'm a unicorn like I've failed,but I haven't filmed it

Randall Kaplan (01:17):
Welcome to In Search of Excellence where we
meet entrepreneurs, CEOs,entertainers, athletes,
motivational speakers andtrailblazers of excellence with
incredible stories from allwalks of life. My name is
Randall Kaplan. I'm a serialentrepreneur, venture capitalist
and the host of In Search ofExcellence, which I started to
motivate and inspire us toachieve excellence in all areas

(01:40):
of our lives. My guest today isthe incredible Mike Posner. Mike
is a singer songwriter, recordproducer and poet. He's released
four albums and is best knownfor his hit songs cooler than
me, which he wrote as asophomore in college and is also
known for smash hit. I took apill in Ibiza, which is one of
my favorite songs of all times,and which has of today has 1.9

(02:04):
billion streams on Spotify. He'swritten songs for Justin Bieber,
Maroon Five, Nick Jonas, Snoop,and many others, and has been
nominated for Grammy and variousMTV Video Music Awards. And as
the author of the poetry Brooke,teardrops and balloons, he's
also the only Grammy Awardnominated musician to walk

(02:25):
across the United States onfoot. Mike is a true pleasure to
have you on my show. Thanks somuch for being here. Welcome to
In Search of Excellence to meetyou. Thank you. So you're born
in the great city of Detroit,your dad, John was a well
respected criminal defenselawyer mom was a pharmacist.
Yeah. Tell us what influencethey had on your life. And what

(02:45):
was the single biggest lessonthey taught you when you're a
young kid? Well, the number onething that comes to mind from
from dad is is now you know, itcomes like this because it's the
mission of our company. Now heused to always say to me, Mike,
there's there's two H's in life,health, and happiness. So our
mission and everything we do atAT T Mike Posner is to help

(03:08):
people be healthier, happier,and that's it.

And my mom, this and my mom,
I can't boil her, her influenceon me down to a soundbite, but
she instilled in me a real fire.
My mom is a fighter. She's aDetroit Hard Rock.
She,she worked for everything she
had in her life. And to thisday, she inspires me. And so

(03:34):
that's where my fire comes from.
And there's a lot of it. So,yeah, my mom is my heart to
stay. When you're eight yearsold, you started making music
when you were 10 years old. Youstarted rapping? I had Rodney
Jerkins on my show, one of thebiggest producers. Yeah, no,
Rodney, you don't have to tellme who Rodney is. So Well, for

(03:56):
those people who don't knowRodney Jerkins, one of the
biggest record, movie geniusproducers of all time. So he was
in Indiana with his aunt at ashopping mall when he heard
Michael Jackson come on theradio. He said to himself, I
make music for that guy one day,and by the age of 21. He was
producing Michael Jackson'srecords. Yeah. So what was the

(04:17):
inspiration for you when youwere eight years old or 10 year
old that said, Hey, I'm MikePosner. I'm going to start
making music.
I can remember hanging with mybuddies, Aaron Webster and
Ronnie Posey. Yeah, Ronnie,Ronnie is no longer with us. So
Ronnie, rest in peace. And we'reeight or nine years old and

(04:40):
we're inwe're in the basement on a you
know, just, that's where ourparents are in Michigan. This
basement. Yeah, where are youfrom?

Michigan. We're gonna get into Okay, no, there's

basically no basements in California. Right.
But Michigan basements right. Soour parents throw us down there.
You know we're in His mustybasement so we don't drive them
crazy and and Ronnie rescue sawhe always had had like a scheme
to get into. And that night itwas hip hop. And so he said,

(05:12):
we're gonna try freestyle ontonight. And we put on these, we
found CDs of music, just musicthat had no words on it. And we
just try and wrap into it. Andas I spit and stumble over, you
know, cliches and words that Iwas trying to rhyme with Mike,
you know, some something justclicked in my brain, my synapses

(05:35):
start to fire. And then thatnight, I knew I was never gonna
stop doing that. And I haven'tsince when I was when you were
10 years old? Yeah, roughly. Idon't know. Exactly. Eight 910.
And I think I'd written a fewraps before that or something.
But that was the night where Iknew this is I'm always gonna do
this the rest of my life. Ididn't know it could be my job.

(05:57):
But I knew I was gonna do it therest of my life. Right.

So various points in our lives, especially
when we're younger. We do thingsthey were not supposed to do.
You know, maybe take your dad'scar or mom's car off for a spin.
We used to go in Maple road.
Yeah. Oh, can we just do don'tsound stupid, silly kids.
Tell us about going to yourmom's computer and stealing

(06:21):
songs on the net and kind of howthat also helped you in your
career? Yeah, so you had thisold computer and Apple TV was
old now it was new then.
Mac was an apple. Now how farback gateway? Gateway? 2000.
Yeah, we

had a gateway. And I mean, I do a lot of things in
that computer. One of the thingsI did like you said it was
installed Napster and you couldtype in x, y, z song, but put
instrumental after and so youget back these, these tracks
without the words and I wouldtry to rap and write my own

(07:02):
songs to them. So that was oneof the things I was up to on
that computer. The other thingsurprisingly, wasn't porn. You
know, dial up was, was too smallfor my 13 year old. But I would,
I would write actual, like, rapson Microsoft Word. And then I

(07:25):
was definitely afraid of myparents, finding them. So I made
a folder as they like math,second semester, you know,
language arts, like it was oneof my classes, and I would save
all these documents in there,my, my raps, my hip hop, and
they were really, there was areason I didn't want you to see
him. They were really honest,you know, and I tried to steal

(07:47):
right from that point to thisday.

So your parents didn't know that you were making
these rap songs. And you werejust doing it? Were you writing
them or singing them? Or youmade the beats? Did you record
any of these? At first, I

was just writing raps over other people's beats.
And like the ones I theinstrumentals I'd find and then,
and I was recording them, then Ifigured out the really archaic
software, I could record on thisbad mic that came with the
computer. And then eventually, Istarted making beats out that

(08:21):
came a little later at age 13.
I, I allocated some bar mitzvahmoney to to get a little cheap
keyboard from from Best Buy and,and is off to the races. That's

awesome. I took $500 on my Bar Mitzvah money.
And I made T shirts in college.
I was really my first year

like another Jewish guy from from Michigan now like,
what what's going on here,

a Jewish guy from you know, I took I took I
always had, I always wanted tohave my own business. I was
wanting to sell something. And Iwas gonna create something but I
took $500 of my Bar Mitzvahmoney. There was no Google or no
net. And so you couldn't go onand just say, Hey, give me 100 t
shirts, you had to go throughthe the Yellow Pages and you

(09:06):
know, call up, hey, I need someT shirts. What do they cost? Are
they cotton? You know, you wantthe 100% cotton polyester, and I
bought these T shirts for fivebucks each. And I would sell the
short sleeve for 12. And ofcourse I copied the Nike logo on
the font. Just do it. And whenMichigan ran to the Final Four,
and I know you're a Duke guy. Ilike Michigan to the Yeah, my

(09:27):
dad went yeah, so it said rodeto the Final Four. So I would go
to every dorm admission. I thinkthere were 14 dorms. I went to
every hallway, I sold these Tshirts door to door I got kicked
out of every hallway. But Ilearned the art of cold calling.
And it was really really coolfor me. Because I think 100% of
what we do in business and evenin our personal life is selling

(09:49):
ourselves. Yeah, you got to sella t shirt. You got to face
rejection. We're going to talkabout all the challenges that
you've been through in your lifebut a lot of it's about
rejection and just poweringthrough. through challenges that
we

all have absolutely wonderful story, so you want to
grow statue limitations uponcopying?

Exactly, you know, to all the people at Nike
like 1990 I graduates I madethese shirts in 1986 I think
we're well past the statuelimitations. But but thank you
Nike for the genius ofthe JUST DO IT slogan, which is
one of the best slogans of alltime. For sure. So I went to
Country Day. You want to grow?

(10:32):
Yeah, I ran across country, yourbest time. Your best time was
1801 for the 5k I know thisstuff. My pre my best time.
My best time those 18 No, no, itwas like 2022 point something
and the only reason I ran crosscountry because this girl named
Marcy Thompson if you'relistening, Marcia Hello. And if

(10:55):
you're not, I'm gonna send youI'm gonna send you the show. But
I thought, gosh, you know, whenI went to country today, I went
to Covington Yeah, in eighthgrade. And then I said, you
know, I want something differentas a Jewish kid. There are only
three Jews in my class. Andpeople were not really Jewish
friendly. And I was a goodstudent so I asked my parents to
go to Country Day and I went tocountry to and the corporate

(11:18):
load the the corporate. Theschool saying was men samancor
Prasanna sound mind and soundbody and they made you play two
sports. So I ran cross countrything. All right, I want to hang
out with Marcy a little bit.
When I got to school. I was coolfor about two weeks. And I
wasn't cool. But I took Marcy tothe freshman dance. She was a

(11:38):
prettiest girl and in class. Andthen I never had another date
with her again, in high school.
And we you know, 10 year reunionwas a different thing. Randall,
I

just want to congratulate you for the only
guy ever to get a girl by doingcross country. That way, by the
way.

Unknown (11:57):
I didn't get her a little while Oh, my God, one
day. We gotta take.

It took 10 years because our 10 year high school
reunion, we reunited and and wehad a nice time together and we
became good friends. So 10 yearsago.
So you're, you're in highschool, I want you to talk to us
about your basketball coach andplaying basketball. And then you

(12:26):
said you were not very happy,depressed, hated school, hated
your teachers hated yourself.
When did that start? And whendid you really save yourself?
undepressed?

Yeah, high school, high school. I can't pry
sophomore year, I remember, wewere assigned Catcher in the
Rye. That book and I was readingthis book sophomore year, and I
can remember being afraid toturn the next page. Because I
felt like I was reading my ownthoughts. This was exactly how I

(12:59):
felt it to the point where itwas creepy. And so I think I
realized, you know, then like,it has gotten his booking so
happy in. And this is me, as me.
You mentioned Basketball,basketball, as social capital,
where I grew up. So if you weregood at basketball, you were

(13:22):
cool. So I desperately wanted tobe cool. And that meant I
desperately wanted to bebasketball. And there's only one
problem with that. One is maybea couple problems. One I was
short Jewish, white, and Iwasn't very good at basketball.

The problem few roadblocks, despite

despite practicing really hard, and I made the JV
team and I remember, I built upall this courage. And I asked
the coach, at some point in ameeting between just him and I.
I said, Coach, why? Why don'tyou play me in the games. And he

(14:07):
just really honestly said,because you're not good enough.
And that was like all I neededto hear. You know, that lit a
fire in my butt. That didn'tmanifest in basketball as we
know, because my story turnedout but in in music, and I just,

(14:31):
I just sort of live my life forthe next 15 years. Gon show you
I'm good enough. And thatallowed me to accomplish a lot
but it was also an Achilles heelat times in my life. There's
some situations where showingother people you're better than

(14:53):
them is not is not the bestattitude and frame to have.
Well,

we'll talk about that a little Amrish I've I've
been there A couple of times,you think it's great that you've
done great, and then there'sdownside to your success. And
I'm looking forward to talkingabout mental health was not
really a thing back then. Youknow, today it's at the
forefront people talk aboutmental health all the time you
hear about the suicides on aregular basis of highly

(15:18):
functioning people who you wouldnever suspect to be depressed. A
Stanford goalie soccer player,just as one generic description
of someone you think did nothave mental health problems,
never told people about ourmental health problems before.
Did you tell your parents atthat point? Hey, Mom, Dad, I am
depressed. And did you see atherapist and give you

(15:41):
medication? Or were you kind ofin the closet with it in closet

fully? It was like this big secret. I don't know
how well I hid the secret. Andthen I made an album about it.
So it was like that I sold onthe trunk of my car, right? But
entrepreneurial, slinging ofCDs, senior year, so pretty much
that whole was about that. But Iwas I'll try to hide it as much

(16:06):
as I could. And for anyonethat's felt that way. It's
exhausting. Yeah. Becauseyou're, you're, you're putting
all this energy into playing thepart of being a happy version of
yourself, which you're not. Thatbeing said, you know, like, I
always sort of tense up when Ihear like, mental health, mental
wellness, all these kind ofbuzzwords nowadays, because what

(16:30):
I don't believe is that in mostcases, I don't think depression
is like this disease that youmagically end up with, and
you're you're stuck with forlife. I believe. In my case, at
least, it was a habit. And I usethat word, intentionally. It was

(16:54):
a habit, it was a certainpattern of thoughts that I chose
to think over and over again,that resulted in a certain set
of emotional states that I choseto dwell in, over and over
again, it was a way I held mybody, slouch, it was a way I
breathe. And the confluence ofthese factors, the thought

(17:14):
patterns, the emotional states,the posture, the breathing,
that's depression. It's not,it's not like, in my DNA, you
know, is is a habit. And when Itook ownership of that, and you
know, this is something I'mdoing to myself, then I then I

(17:36):
was able to say, hey, I canchoose to do something else. So
you'll notice me even, you mayhave noticed already, I'm
constantly going that, as I sithere, on my shoulders, I'm
constantly breathing. And everymorning I wake up if you go on
my Instagram, people laugh atme, but it is work better than

(17:58):
any pill. I run or I gettingcold water. And I remind myself
who I actually am I say I amJoy, I am faith, I am love. I am
Grace, I am gratitude. And I'mrunning up a hill or I'm in a 35
degree, not 30 for 39 degree icebath when I am Joy, I have
faith. And these are the newthis is the new thought pattern.

(18:18):
And this creates a new emotionalpattern in my body. And with
these new habit, I'm a differentperson. And so I don't in my
case at least depression is notsome some mysterious disease. It
was a habit. And I changed thefucking habit. Right so and I
going back.

What's your advice to all the people
listening today? Who havedepression or untreated they're
afraid to talk to their friendsor family about it? I think

getting an ice bath,

Great Depression. Oh, yeah. You're
you're you're 18 years old.

This is this is not a this is not a this is not a
peer reviewed, published study.
Right. But in Duke MedicalSchool. Yeah, this is this is
the Mike Posner School of schoolof trying to make my frickin
life better. Depression has ahard time surviving under 40
degrees. Because it gets you outyour frickin head depression

(19:23):
lives up here. You know, andwhat are we thinking think about
ourselves, right? It'sobsessive, self centered
thinking of how we're wronged orwe're not understood or
something's wrong with me. Weget in these spirals. It happens
all the time. So I'm not sayinglike, I never have a bad mood or
I never have a depressed thoughtor a depressed mood. But I would

(19:46):
never put the word depressedafter I am as an identity. I am
Joy I have faith on love. So Iwould say Change your story,
getting cold water, stand upstraight, breathe deeply and
start thinking some positivethoughts. And at first those

(20:09):
thoughts will feel like jokes.
You'll think posing stupid manlike this, this feels silly. But
if you keep doing it and if youcouple those things together,
they start to get powerful.
Right? If you couple a statechange, a physical state change,
like getting in cold water orexercising with saying these new

(20:29):
thoughts out loud, I am Joy I amfade them or whatever your yes,
the story you want to write, itbecomes powerful. And that over
time, not in a day, not in twodays. But quicker than you might
think. Two weeks, three weeks,you start to believe yourself
start to believe is different.

(20:51):
What if, what if I enjoy andwhat a lot of us and you know,
I'm not going to sit here andsay My situation is the same as
everybody else's. But for a lotof people because I was one of
them. The other thing,depression is beyond being a

(21:12):
habit isn't an excuse. It's acatch all excuse. Because as
long as I'm depressed, I got anexcuse for not really honoring
my responsibilities as a friend,as a son, as a human being as a
member of my community. And forliving up to who deep down, deep

(21:34):
down. You know, you really are,you know, deep down, that you
are a badass motherfucker,you're here to do great things,
you're here to live a joyouslife, you're making an impact on
other people. And the problem iswith that, you have to actually
move Jaeger to actually take arisk and actually put yourself
in situations where it might notwork out. And as long as I was

(21:57):
depressed, I got an excuse tonot do any of that. And so it's
like, this isn't the path forthe faint of heart. You know,
this is the path like what I'msaying is the path you go on. If
you want to have an incrediblelife that you take out of the
out of the teeth of this storyof depression, and ends up in

(22:19):
happiness and joy and magic andabundance and adventure in a
life bigger than your dreamseven worse. That's my real life
now. So like, I don't say thisas a judgement to others. I say
this as an invitation. Becausewe're talking about when I'm 15
When I was 15 my dreams were tolike go to college and and just

(22:50):
like hopefully get a job andmake make money. My compare that
to my real life would you talkeda little bit about the intro,
walked across a continent, climbthe tallest mountain on Earth,
written six platinum songs,nominated for Grammys, and
beyond all that happy, I'm aunicorn, they I have fame. But I

(23:18):
have fulfilment. So my real lifeis bigger than my dreams or is
more magical. So I'm just tryingto share, I'm here to share the,
the tools I use to, to navigatethat I made a lot of mistakes
along the way too. And I'm happyto share those as well. So

(23:39):
people not to fall in the samepit pit holes. But these are
these are some of the ways I'vechanged my life. And when I say
changed my life like I got a Igot a cool rap sheet, I get it.
That's why we get to target todo cool interviews like this.
But the thing that's not on myWikipedia is have transitioned

(24:00):
from being this kid 15 yearsold, who was just exhausted
every day from trying to pretendI was happy when I wasn't to
this 36 year old man who is wholoves his life and loves life.

I love all that.
I want to go back a little bitor move forward when you were
1518 made your first record yousold out the back of your car
you made $1,700 I

think it was like 700 700 Oh, maybe net gross.
1700 Gross.

So were you selling this in the gross
parking lot. And then how goodwas it? Do you remember the
first time someone actuallybought your album? How good was
that feeling?

I was selling it?
Yeah, I was I had an 88 Volvothat my aunt gave passed down to
me. safe car. Yeah, I wasdefinitely selling it right out
of the trunk of the car. Yeahgroves are at groves. Yeah, and,
and I don't remember the firstsale ever made, but it felt
good. I remember having that Iremember having the $700 and

(25:09):
gone this is this is cool man tobe getting money. Like make it
similar dogs lot for 18 year oldkid a lot a lot, right? To get
$700 from doing something that Iwould do anyways. Right that I
would probably even pay to do.

(25:30):
Because I love to make music. Itwas that was frickin cool. That
was freaking cool. And I'vealways made money doing music,
you know, from from that pointon. And there's something about
there's a lesson in theresomewhere about just declaring

(25:54):
your own worth. There were fiveother rappers in my school.

Which by the way, for those people who don't
know, is really an upper middleclass to wealthy school. I mean,
I know you guys didn't have youknow, there was a spectrum
there. I mean, I went to CountryDay down the street that was
very privileged. Yeah, right.
And we would hang out a girls,especially for the girls,
because my class was 93 Kids isbasically you know, 4545 girls

(26:23):
and girls had a much, much widervariety of people are the only
one Yeah, we hang out the bigboy on on Telegraph and all at
foot.

So yeah, the school was great. It was it was it was
pretty diverse. Actually, you'reright there were there were some
very wealthy families in myschool, but there are some some
very poor families in ourschool. There's a trailer park
in our district. It was reallydiverse, so well racially and
socioeconomically. So but thepoint is, there's five other

(26:59):
rappers in my in my in myschool, but I didn't look at
myself as one of them. I lookedat myself is spit like special.
I'm the one and I can rememberit. You didn't remember using
eight mile unit rap battles.

I mean, not only have I seen in the movies, but
we did some dumb shit when I wasa country day. Yeah. So we drive
down to Detroit eight mile, andwe'd go buy liquor down there.
We buy some beer bottles andJames which is no longer on it's
kind of like a truly today. winespritzer and we go down we buy
colt 45 And Busch beer andStroz, which at the time was

(27:39):
yes, Detroit. breweries. I'vebeen eight mile. I've seen the
movie, obviously. I love it. I'mfrom Detroit. Love the rap. I
mean, I love the whole thing.
Yeah. But yeah, I've seen themovie. And I've I've been eight
mile more times than I wouldever want my kids to go there.

Right. So there's a lesson here and declaring your
value. So there is I guessthere's five rappers in my
school. We have rap battles. Butthere are some kids that I
wouldn't even battle fightingthink they're good enough to

(28:16):
battle me. I always placed valueon myself. When I got to Duke,
where I went to college. Theproblem is when you start your
music career, and you know fromstarting a business is you see
yourself as a star. But everyoneelse sees you as the kid in the

(28:37):
dorm next door. So you have todo things to differentiate
yourself. Like, there werecertain gigs where I would get
offered to be paid a couple $100to play at a frat party or
something like this. I say no. Iplay at Duke once a year. And I

(28:58):
throw the show. Maybe twice ayear. I create scarcity around
myself. Right? I continue to mycareer, you know, in Detroit,
when when my career started totake off. The radio stations,
they all want you to do theirshow, right? And they play your
song on the radio. So they sayHey, this is the stations in

(29:21):
Detroit say we got to ourChristmas show or whatever. What
should I say? No. I play inDetroit once, maybe twice a year
as my hometown. Scarcity. I'mnot I'm not. I'm not a college
artists. I'm not a high schoolband. I'm me. I'm Mike Posner.
And the first person to see MikePosner is Mike Posner was Mike

(29:44):
Posner. And I mean, it's so youhave to you see yourself as this
of as what you're going tobecome, but you got to help
other people to see you thatway. And one of the ways I did
that was just Just alwaysdeclare my value. Yeah.

Excuse me, you're good. I think today
people are questioning the valueof college education. Yeah,
every day, right? I mean, right,right. Let me my son today he's
a sophomore in college and hisdad, you know, what, why am I
here? He's cost debt. Why thefuck am I here? These professors
if they could get a job in thereal world, the guy's got a

(30:25):
professor from Google, who tellsthem right to make $800,000 a
year, and he can teach and hedoes have a job in the real
world. And when we read thestats today, the average college
graduate has $34,000. in studentdebt, it takes 21 years to pay
that off. First year, plumbertoday makes $80,000 The Wall

(30:47):
Street Journal just came outwith a ranking of the schools
that pay the best first yearsalaries. And we're talking
about Harvard, Stanford toMichigan, and they're in the mid
40s. So what's your advice? Toeverybody out there? Who has a
talent you got to do went toDuke for part, and we're gonna
talk about what happened therein a second. So I don't want to

(31:08):
jump the gun. But what's what'syour advice? To all the parents
out there? And all the studentsout there really started with
the students? Should we go tocollege if you have a passion to
do something else? And what'sthe value of a college education
today?

I think that first of all, there's no one blanket
answer where every person shoulddo it their life, I think you
got to look at what lights youup. And this is, this is a
really hard conversation forsomeone who's 7080 years old,
they start going, what do I dowant to? What do I want to do
with the rest of my life? It'sprobably the wrong question. The

(31:48):
right question might looksomething like what excites me
right now? What am I interestedin right now? And I think you go
down that that path. And listen,my buddy, Big Sean. We're both
the same age, he had a full rideto Michigan State. And I was

(32:13):
going to get ready to go to Dukehe didn't go and he just focused
on music. And it's worked outjust fine for him. Yeah, you
know, and I went to Duke. And ittook me a year or two, I was
there to, you know, I thought Iwas going to get a business
degree or something. But whileI'm in class, I'm writing songs

(32:33):
in the margins of my notebook.
And it turned out the things I'mwriting in the margins of the
notebook, were actually thething that became my career in
the the notes in the, in themiddle of the page, which I
thought was gonna be my careerturned out to be things I, I
didn't so much use. So I wouldbe really reticent to just offer
as a prescription for any humanbeing, I think you got to look

(32:58):
at what lights you up what whatyou're passionate in, and tug on
the you know, go down the rabbithole of your own inspiration.
And for some people that mightinvolve going to get a four year
degree and for for a lot ofpeople might not wear these.
This is the thing. If you canbecome excellent. In whatever

(33:25):
the thing is that you're right,it's Navy, your podcasts are
excellent. Yeah, if you couldbecome excellent. And whatever
your passion is, you're gettingat getting to have some, some
career options, then thequestion is, can you become
excellent in something you'renot really interested in?

(33:47):
Probably not. So let's startwith the thing you're interested
in. And then I would just becomeas excellent as you can in that
thing. Go learn from the best inthe world at that thing. And and
if that person is at auniversity that maybe you want
to go there, if not, maybe youdon't, you know? And so, that's
it. That's it, I'll never bebroke because I can pick up a

(34:11):
guitar and I can make you feelsomething. You know, even if I
have all my everything messedup, like, I know how to do that.
And so that would be my advice.
I think for parents, I would sayyes, about kids and parents. One
one is like, okay, when you're akid, the time to chase after

(34:35):
your passion is now is now youknow, I'd meet meet kids on the
walk across America. They go Iwant I want to I've always
wanted to do this, but I gottaget a good job first and make
some money ago. Dude, what areyou talking about? Like you're
18 this is the tie. This is thetime. So the time to like take a

(34:56):
risk and fail is now out, youknow is now for parents you got
to be willing to allow your yourkids to, to live in a world and
thrive in a world be excellentin a world that looks different
than the one you grew up in. Andthen being excellent might

(35:17):
involve them taking a differentpath, you know, and so faith.

I believe education is a greatest
investment we can make inourselves. And I do. And I do
believe college is not for a lotof people. But even people like
my son who's an entrepreneur, hewas flipping shoes when he was
younger, he got me into dogs.
Now I'm a sneaker head of thehighest order. It's a very

(35:45):
expensive habit, but it'ssomething I love. But he was
saying, you know, for a whilethat I'm not going to college, I
said, you're going to collegesaid no, I'm not gonna be 18.
And you can't make me so it's aCharlie, where you're gonna
live. And ultimately, he came toa conclusion that he should go
to college, because and he cameto this conclusion on his own

(36:06):
for the social component. Andmoving away from home. And not
all people who go to collegewill move away from home.
Obviously, that's expensive. ButI do think the social
connections and the socialmaturity you gain from
graduating high school andliving apart from home, if you
can, is invaluable. It's theexperiences the growth, it's the
maturity and then it's theconnections you make. Duke has

(36:29):
alumni all over the world.
Right? If you were to reach outto someone on LinkedIn, or call
someone and say I graduated, dothey have a propensity to talk
to you at Michigan has thelargest alumni body in the world
greatest school on Earth? Idon't know what was wrong with

(36:49):
your judgment, not going toUniversity of Michigan going to
Duke. But I think it's very,very important. And I think
there's a lot of reasons notonly to learn, but more of
intangible reasons for the valueof our education.

Yeah, I think I think you're right. There's a
flip side to that, you know, atleast in my case, I can remember
just we were like heathens, man,the amount of we were drinking
and the culture of womanizing. Imean, it was it was pretty out
of control. In hindsight, youknow, some of the culture there,

(37:24):
so I made some incrediblefriends. But we were up to some
pretty nasty behavior at thesame time. So

you know, many of us were Yeah, it's,

it's, it's Shades of Grey, you know, it's not
black and white. But yeah, yeah.
So many tangible benefits tocollege. So

you're going to do great school must have been
great test, test taker must havebeen a very good steward. Tell
us, your parents don't want youhanging around. After you
graduated. Tell us about theinternship you got at the radio
station in Detroit. What stationwas it, by the way, because in
my research, I couldn't find theactual name of the station. And
then tell us about this guy whowas dressing like a millionaire.

(38:06):
And how that friendship laterchanged your life.

Yes. So I got an internship at station was called
hot 1027. I don't I don't thinkI think it's been rebranded or
bought or something since then.
It's not still station was a hiphop station. And yeah, my mom
said, you know, you got a coupleof months here this summer,
before you're going to school,you're going to work, you know,
you know. So, I got thatinternship. And I went, and

(38:34):
through my coworker, I met a guynamed Sean, who, as you said,
was just like a millionaire. Andthe word on the street was Sean
knew Kanye West.

Well, what does that mean, by the way? I mean,
just like a million I mean, he's18. He's an intern. SAR is the

he was the money was in an intern. Yeah, I don't
know. Man. He had

money for real change. I'm gonna do we're in
fake fake drip there or what?

I don't know. I

just looked like a million.

I don't think it was fake. I don't know. What
would he would he had done toprocure the outfits that yeah,
maybe maybe we get him on yourpodcast. Okay.

I love that big shot on my show. He'd

be a good guest actually. He's incredible guy.
And he just he was this. He waslike this lifeline out of
Detroit. He had this connectionto Kanye West, which was a new
connection for him, but he waslike a way to a different life.

(39:43):
Everyone I knew was sort ofstuck in the mediocrity of
suburban molasses. And I thoughtI was doomed to that kind of
existence. I was desperate for away to add color to my life, add
excitement and glory and to justget out. And he was that way

(40:09):
out. He had he had a connectionthat looked like a way out to
me.

When he told you he had this thing with Kanye,
did you believe him? Or was thatcome on man?

Yeah, I believe them. And they had like, you
know, so funny like this back inthe day before the iPhone. And
really, I think I don't thinkthe iPhone was out yet. So they
had like, actual, like, picturesthat they had developed, like,
he was at like a party withKanye and stuff. And some and,
and he had met Kanye at theradio station where I worked.

(40:46):
And so everyone knew the story,you know, of him meeting Kanye
and I believe so. I believedhim. Yeah. And he didn't get a
record deal from Kenny rightaway. I went to college at Duke,

(41:08):
like I said, and then Kenny toldSean, don't go to college,
you're gonna be a rapper. SoShawn didn't take his
scholarship at Michigan State.
And he just worked and it tookabout a year or two of courtship
between Kai and Sean. But Iremember the day walking, I was
on the phone, walking on WestCampus, talking to Sean and he
said, My deal came through Isigned my record deal as thought

(41:31):
man, I didn't know we could dothat. And immediately, I started
to believe if Shawn could get arecord deal that I could do. And
this is the funny thing aboutbelief. A belief is a thought

(41:55):
repeated over time. And I had anew belief the old belief was
it's like impossible to berecording art like a famous
recording artist. The new beliefwas Shawn could do it. I could

(42:16):
do it too. I'm gonna get arecord deal also. Randall eight
months after that phone call. Iwas getting offers for my own
record deal. Alright, let's

let's freeze frame the story there. Okay. So
there's another guy that was aquick trips that also got a
record deal. And you thoughthey, I'm better than that guy as
well. And is there jealousy thatgoes into someone not as good as
you getting in achievingsomething like a record deal?
And then say, Hey, man, I mean,Big Sean, lots of talent. This

(42:58):
other guy maybe not as much. Isjealousy also a great motivator
to work harder when the otherguy you're telling him isn't it?
Right tracks?

Oh, right tracks.
Well, they were good man. Righttracks was good. You did your
research. God Lee. Right, righttracks, they were producers. And
they were they were great. Andthey did, they did beats for
Shawn. And they did most ofSean's beats every one. So I was

(43:30):
sneak one in. But they hadproximity to them. And they're
in Detroit and I left NorthCarolina. And then I heard Kanye
was going to sign them asproducers. And I just like my
heart saying like, man, thatshould have been me. I shouldn't
I shouldn't I should stay inDetroit. Stay by Shawn like put

(43:52):
all my eggs in the Shawn basket.
So I think there was somecompetitive you know, healthy
competition and my relationshipwith Shawn and right tracks and

(44:13):
then probably some unhealthyjealousy at times as well. But

a blessing and a curse at the same time. Yeah,

but man, I whatever it was, it was jealousy or
healthy competition. I I used itto fuel me. And when I think of
Shawn, though, mostly I justthink of inspiration. I think of
him somebody as somebody whochanged my life twice. We've
talked about the second onelater, but that first way wasn't

(44:41):
by some advice he gave or didthough. It was just him living
his life. At the highestcapacity. No one told him he
could get a record deal. He justwent did it. He just went did
it. And that is fired the heckout of me. Or like, I can do it

(45:03):
too. And I'm pretty sure thatcertainty in your own ability to
achieve something is is afoundational agreement and
you're actually doing thatthing. And I didn't have that
belief in myself until he showedme it was possible. And me Yeah,

(45:26):
I wouldn't be here without him.
Without him doing that.

How great is it?
When you have a huge dream? Youthink it's impossible. And a
friend of yours does somethingin makes the impossible
possible? What a greatmotivation. Yeah, for everyone
listening,

it's a blessing.
But here's the thing Randall is,is not everyone has a big shot
in their life. So they might belistening, go, Hey, that sounds
nice. Where's my where's mylike, really inspiring friend,
right? God didn't give me one ofthose. Here's the good news. You
can change your belief on yourown. Like I said, a belief is
just a thought repeated overtime. We talked earlier about

(46:07):
incantation, your affirmation,you go out and you run, or you
sitting that cold water, youwalk every day, or you take out
the journal and you practicethat new belief. And you put a
motion into it. And you write icomma, Mike Posner, whatever
your name is, comma, we'll get arecord deal by x date, I might,

(46:29):
and you write that thing 15times every day, and you
envision it, you see it, and youfeel stupid at first, but after
a few days, you start to youstart to believe it. And you can
change your you can change yourown beliefs, you don't need a
big shot to change your beliefs.
You change your own beliefs. AndI do that in pretty much every

(46:53):
area of my life, because becausewe all have limiting beliefs,
where we're, whether that wassomething somebody else told us,
and we believe them, or it's amainstream belief in the culture
that isn't even yours got passeddown, you've through social
media, through your parents orwhatever, they're not even your
beliefs, a lot of them, youinherit, we think our thoughts,
our thoughts, a lot. Most of usare not that original, you know,

(47:19):
a lot of the things we believeabout ourselves, our
capabilities that we didn't evenmake up, and they're just kind
of running like malware in thebackground. And you could change
all these things. You know,like, I used to believe I was
like a bad complicatedboyfriend. I change that, but
I'm like, the best lover I'veever been like, yeah. And so you

(47:43):
don't need a big sign to changeyour beliefs. All you need is
persistence, dedication,discipline, and repetition. And
you can you can tell a newstory.

So you get to Duke, your writing music. And if
for all those haven't seen,that's really cool. You can go
online and watch a lot of Mike'svideos at Duke and it really
brings you back when you whenyou see someone famous or it's
it's great song and figure,okay, you think of the big
recording studios that we allsee on TV. But there's some
great videos of you sitting atyour dorm room and your desk

(48:15):
which brought me brought me backto my dorm room. That's really
great. So I want to take coolerthan me and the mixtape
separately. Okay, so you'reright, this song, basically, to
me girls. And the song was aboutnot needing something to impress

(48:42):
girls or meet girls. So tell usabout cooler and me. cooler than
me and the inspiration for thatsong if I got it, right. And
then what what happened that youexploded on campus and everyone
knew you?

Well, by the time Roku or the meet, you got to
understand I've already beenmaking music now. 12 years.
Okay, so that's the first

thing amateur basis except for the set of the
$700

Correct? Correct.
I'm not a professional, youknow, I'm not paying my bills,
music, but I've been makingmusic for 12 years. cooler than
me was a song I wrote.
Basically, it's about feelingleft out. You know, it's about

(49:36):
going on the cross country team,team trying to meet the girl and
like, not, not working out.
That's how I felt my whole lifewas like the odd guy out and
never felt like I belonged. Ihad friends for sure. And I felt
special but I didn't feel like Ibelonged. And so this was a song
that I wrote I'm with EricColgin Jeff Oh are in my band at

(50:01):
the time and we were history rowand I recorded in my dorm room.
And I put it online on hisMySpace at the time. And I
didn't think that much of it. Iguess I've been making music for

(50:21):
a long time. Until one day Iwent to this kid named Zander's
room who lived down the hall forme. Xander was a cool kid. And
this was a Saturday afternoon.
And I went to his room, which iskind of like hallowed ground

(50:46):
because he's so cool. And hesaid, Mike, we were at a party
last night, which I was not at,you know, I was like, because
when other kids would go out tothe parties, the dorms were
quiet, and I could record then.
So I was not at these partiesoften. And he said, we're at the

(51:06):
party last night, and theyplayed your song. And everyone
knew the words. And then theyplayed it again. And everyone's
saying it again,

had chills, by the way as you're telling me the
story now. Yeah.

And I'm just like, what? Well, you know that I've
been making music 12 years thatnever happened before. The only
person that knew the words to mysongs was me. And I went back
from Zander's room and I walkedback to my dorm room and and
we're getting a call from mymom. Remember, I told you the

(51:52):
beginning of the interview, mymom's a Detroit Hard Rock? She
doesn't exaggerate. She doesn'tsugarcoat you don't have to
guess how she feels. She'll tellyou she said Michael. I really
loved that song cooler than me.
I almost dropped the phonebecause my mom was always

(52:15):
supportive of my music giving melessons and and drum lessons and
drive me to studios pass eightmile to six mile and like we're
in the hood, you know, and I'min this like, super supportive
but she never told me she likedanything I made before that that
daythe next day I get a call from

(52:41):
Sean and he says Mike thatcooler than me song is because
it sounds like it's a hit songnow that wasn't even in my realm
of possibilities hit song but Ijust triangulated I go sorority

(53:04):
girls at Duke my mother and BigSean all of the same thing I may
I think I might be on tosomething here and so that was
that was that was an importantcheckpoint on my on my path

(53:28):
because I started to put a lotof time energy and energy and
what are capital A littlecapital I had at the time into
this project. And I thought Ihad a tiger by its tail and
turns out I did

you also made a lot of songs that do want to do
basketball thing but I thatbecame sort of their anthem but
I want to talk about where theinspiration where songs come
from Taylor Swift talks abouther love life a lot. Talk to us
about taking a shower in yourmom's bathroom and the
Maybelline shampoo that was inher bathroom and inspired

(54:11):
another one in college

Yeah, I wrote this song song doesn't make the cut
for my shows anymore. Write asong called drug dealer girl.
You start off well you may neverbe on a Maybelline commercial.
But you always let me know whenyou guys are purple. And yeah so
the shampoo bottle andMaybelline are thought of that.

(54:35):
And it's just like the turn ofphrase may never be on a
Maybelline is cool. Paul SimonAeterna phrase and yes, it was
inspiration come a lot of wayshe come from something like
that, or sometimes just comesout of thin air often when I'm
asleep. I'll be in a dream whereI'm singing a song and dream.

(54:56):
And I'll wake up and go Thatsong doesn't exist yet. You
know, record that thing. Youknow, or, or sometimes they just
come through sometimes beholding the guitar and it's song
which comes out, boom, stream ofconsciousness, like in the
basement. So there's a lot ofdifferent ways songs can present

(55:21):
themselves, but mostly, I don'tthink we deserve that much
credit for them. We can deservecredit for keeping the channel
clear to God or inspiration ifthat word turns you off and just
call it inspiration. But whenyou think about who thinks your

(55:42):
thoughts did you decide to popthe thought in your head? Or the
the idea, right? Because I'mcatching myself you can decide
to think a thought. But can youdecide to have a new idea that I

(56:03):
don't know, you can make thespace for that occur in, you
could keep a clear mind, youcould keep a healthy body, you
can meditate so that there'sspace for that to show up inside
of. And I think I take creditfor that. But as far as the
thing actually coming in, youknow, the great ones say and I

(56:27):
think they're right, you know,I'm just the channel. I'm just a
vehicle for something beautifulto manifest itself.

So you're in school. Big Sean gets a record
deal with Kanye. You're toilingaway. It's finals your sophomore
year. You got to mix tape nowthat has really made its way all
the way around. You got a 20page sociology paper that's due.
Yeah. And you get this crazycall from Big Sean that Jay Z

(57:03):
wants to meet you tell us aboutthat whole thing. What What were
you thinking when you heardthat? Like, this is fucking
unbelievable.

So it was It wasn't Shawn that call me as my
manager, Dan, he called andsaid, Mike, you gotta go back to
New York. And I had just been inNew York, taking some meetings
with record labels and stuff.
And I said, I can't go in NewYork minutes finals week, like,
I go to Duke is hard. I'm gonnacurve against really smart
children, her natural, reallysmart, young, young adults. And

(57:32):
he said, You gotta go Jay Zwants to meet you. I said, Don't
mess with me, man. Don't tell methat. He goes, No, real JSY must
meet you. So I didn't tell asoul because I didn't think it
would actually happen. I thoughtI would get there and you know,

(57:52):
he get busy. I meet you know,with one of his associates or
something. But I got on a planeto to New York and. And I sat
and I met with with Jay Z for afew hours. And I played him
cooler than me and startednodding his head like this. And
we just had an amazing meeting.

(58:15):
And it was inspiring. And Iremember I felt really
understood by him. I've alreadyseen by me, he understood the
things that inspired me the the,the music I listened to and it
was just a great meeting, I wentback to Duke and I was in the

(58:37):
library working on this paper.
And I remember I checked myemail. And there was a there was
a record deal offer from fromJay Z. And not from him
personally but from rock nation.
And it was just incredible, man.
Like it felt like a dream cometrue. It was

you walk into the office. You walk into the
office. It's gorgeous. Right?
It's huge. And when when youstep foot in that door, that
very second, you could see himon the other side of the room
probably walking towards youright to shake your hand. What
were you feeling at that exactmoment and Jay Z nervous?

feeling nervous.
But he was very disarming andcharming. And within a few
minutes I felt reallycomfortable in the room. And I
we just had a great meeting.
Great meeting.

He sends rock nation send you a record deal on
a contract but you didn't signwith rock nation. Correct. RCA
you signed with the interestingthing about that deals if you
stayed in school with Ryannation deal you're gonna get a
bonus he wants you to stay inschool and graduate

at It was just kind of a cute thing they put in the
clause. You know, like if you ifyou complete your turn get a
bonus. But me and my lawyerlike, just give me the bonus now
it's fine.

Randall Kaplan (01:00:14):
So So what was the money? How much? What was
the first deal? And did you haveit sounds like you had a lawyer
and a manager. So where are theyprotecting you? So So many times
we hear about your new you got arecord deal, you do anything to
get signed? And then you gettaken advantage of with a five
record deal. They keep all thecopyrights. Did you know what
you were doing? Did you havegood advice? And what was the

(01:00:37):
deal?

Mike Posner (01:00:40):
I remember all the ins and outs of the deal. But
now knowing what I know now,obviously, I have more leverage
now, you know, and I have my ownmoney now. So yeah, the deal,
like pretty much suck comparedto any deal I would do now. But
you're in a different place inlife. And so you know, I can't
cry over spilt milk. But yeah,if I, I think if I had educated

(01:01:03):
myself more as a book, anyonewho's getting in the music
business, you recall thateverything you need to know
about the music business byDonald Passman. Right. I think
if I read that book, I'd have afew more shekels in my my bank
account right now. Right? Yeah,talking

though. Are we talking about a $50,000? Deal?
We're talking about 250,000?
Which is either one. Yeah,there's a lot of Yeah, I

think I think it was a couple 100 grand, a couple
100 grand, and then did apublishing deal for for
significantly more than that.
But they're all kind of baddeals, because they bet against
yourself. Right? You know, ifyou have, you're basically
taking a giving up a lot ofownership of your intellectual
property in return for these,these checks up front. So if you

(01:01:47):
was if you're a dud, they'regreat deals. But if you have a
lot of success that they don'tshake out, and so yeah, what I
gave up for that couple 100k or,you know, that publishing deal
is a lot, you know, it wasworth, you know, like 10s of
millions of dollars. So, yeah,it was, in hindsight, not a

(01:02:09):
great, great deal, but it got meto where I am, to even be, even
have the perspective, you know,what I'm saying to, to, to say,
hey, is not not great deal, I doa different one now. So
everything happens for a reason.
You know, you live and you learnand you're in a different

(01:02:31):
position now.

So your mixtape goes viral. And I think a lot of
our success today we think aboutmarketing and creativity. So
talk to us about iTunesUniversity and the positive
role.

Yeah, yeah. So I figured out really early right
that I was first of all, I wasreally into hip hop and at the
time, if you're new hip hopartists you would try to get
your your music featured on aseries of hip hop blogs that
were that were prominent thatpeople who are in hip hop read

(01:03:10):
and the other thing you do isyou'd give your music away for
free because at that time themusic industry you there was
just a lot of pirating going onlike me and my friends at Duke
we restore the music off of offof Napster bit torrents that

(01:03:32):
kind of thing. So one thing youdidn't do is like really sell
sell music the way I was tryingto and in high school. So I
looked at the data points I hadwhich were okay, this I can't
sell my music because I'mstealing like Kanye and Jay Z's
music, right. So no one's gonnapay for my music because no one

(01:03:53):
knows who I am. So as a and b isI'm looking at this, these data
points, which is like Xander istelling me these rich white
girls love my music as much asBig Sean does. And they these
white girls are not going on inthese hip hop blogs, you know,

(01:04:15):
and like in going on a bittorrents and all this stuff.
They're on iTunes. So I have toserve both of these audiences
because they both like my music.
And what I found was thisloophole, there was this thing

(01:04:35):
on iTunes called iTunes you andit was set up for professors to
post their lectures so studentscould view the lectures and
everything on iTunes you wasfree. And everything I can do is
supposed to be like aneducational thing. And I

(01:04:55):
thought, well, you know, I'm theThis isn't my music is really
educational, but I'm a student,so maybe I could get my music on
there and I found the guy whoran iTunes you for Duke. And
this is like one of those Godmoments. This was a guy named
Todd stably. And I found hisnumber I call them and turns

(01:05:19):
out, he was he's fromSouthfield, Michigan, just like
me. And so he said, Yeah, man,I'll help you out. I'll put your
album on. On iTunes, you noproblem. So now I had my my
music in a safe place callediTunes that these the rich girls

(01:05:40):
could access and would access.
And it wasn't just about therich girls at Duke, it was about
the rich, it was about thatwhole demographic across the
country. And we just useGuerilla Marketing after that. I

(01:06:02):
had a I had friends from highschool that were at different
colleges, Michigan StateMichigan market. Note Notre Dame
I had a friend. Anyplace I had afriend, I had a Facebook group
and I made it really easy forthem. I said, look like there's

(01:06:22):
a link here to the iTunes youthing. And here's how you could
send this to all your friends.
And if you're open to it, wouldyou change your profile picture
to my album cover for the nexttwo weeks, the mixtape cover? So
I had this network of and then Iasked my friends at Duke who all
had their own set of friends atall these different colleges to

(01:06:43):
do the same thing. And startgetting people that I didn't
even know were a couple ofdegrees of separation to share
my my mixtape, my free albumwith all of their networks on on
Facebook. And this event, Ithink, went out to like, 30,000
people, which is a lot, youknow, for somebody starting from

(01:07:06):
zero. And it just worked, man,it worked. And I got to add one
last thing, you know, it waslike, it was good. So even
people that weren't, you know,part of our networks, when they
heard it, they shared itanyways, because it was good.

(01:07:29):
And it took me a long while tomake something that good, like I
said, been going on 12 yearsalready, you know. And so the
thing itself was, was worthy ofbeing shared, you know, the
wheels, you can do all yourtechniques, or what if it's just
not a good product, then none ofthis stuff works. It just

(01:07:49):
started to spread, and peopleliked it. And I got to the point
where you're good. I would getbooked to play concerts at other
schools and I show up at otherschools and everybody knew the
words when I got there. So thatwas pretty cool.

Sign a record deal. Thought you'd be happy,
weren't happy, still depressed,and started writing songs for
all these amazing people.
Bieber, Snoop of Ichi, who youhad met in college, who attacks
you in college. He had becamegood friends. We're gonna talk
about him a little bit later inthe show. Tell us why you
weren't happy here. You've gotthis. You've got your dream. You

(01:08:36):
don't think it was possible? BigSean gives you a mind shift?
Said he got one. I'm gonna getone. You got one. You should
have been on top of the world atthat point.

Yeah, well, you know, Taylor's all this time,
happiness is an inside job. Andwe talked about the habit of
depression. And I gave sometools to gave you and your

(01:09:10):
audience some tools as far ashow I changed that habit. What
wasn't on that list of ways tochange the habit of depression
was getting a bunch of money andgetting famous. Because so
often, Look, we all do this, wethink we're unhappy. Because
something isn't quite right inour external world. So we make

(01:09:33):
our life about changing ourexternal circumstances in such a
way that we think we will thenbe happy if the external
circumstances are updated andupgraded and changed in some way
based on our preferences. And wewe make our whole life about
making those changes. And itturns out it all was never

(01:10:00):
worse, we make the change. Andthe whole time while we're
working sometimes year,sometimes a lifetime to make the
change, we're still in the samehabit. We're practicing being
depressed while we do it. And sowhen we get there and the
external thing changes, we'restill breathing the same way,

(01:10:21):
we're still holding our bodiesthe same way, we're still
thinking the same thoughts,we're still in the same
emotional states. And so youmight get a momentary hit. Like
it was exciting to get therecord deals exciting to see,
you know, be on stage. Andpeople know that the words of
the songs for sure you get ahit, you know, but it doesn't
last very long. So, you know,this tail is all this time, and

(01:10:43):
it's cliche, but it's true. Thenwe go back to our baseline, and
my baseline was depressed. Soeven though I had the record
deal now, and I had some degreeof fame, now, and I had some
degree of monetary success, now,I was still thinking the same

(01:11:04):
thoughts, I was still standingthe same way, I was still
breathing the same, I stillspending my life in the same
emotional states. And until youchange those, which is all
they're all internal, until youchange those, like, you're still
gonna still feel the same way.
That's it. It's as simple assimple as that man.

So you have something that you've called an
ice cold period, you gotten aDodge van and drove across the
country. Was that just to getaway? Or what was the mind?
Thought Process at that point intime? And how did that help you
get out of whatever you were in?

You were bouncing forward in the story, and that's
totally fine. But I moved to LAafter college and I bounced
around West Hollywood for a longtime writing songs for others,
and I had success doing it. AndLA has been great to me, you
know, it actually worked out youknow, like, I did become a
success like

we're here this beautiful amazing home. Yeah, in
LA did

become a success and things aren't turned out
well. But I would sometimes feellike I was caught in caught in
it. Like I was trappedunderneath the weight of my own
success. And I think I inherentdeep down I inherently knew I am

(01:12:42):
more than just an artist. I'mmore than just like a pop
singer. And me moving into myvan and seeing Hey, can I live
alone like in the mountains fora few months? was just the first
step baby step and me exploringthat. And obviously went on went
a lot further.

Thanks for listening to part one of my
incredible conversation with theawesome Mike Posner. Be sure to
tune in next week for myincredible interview with Mike

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Mike Posner on "Cooler Than Me," "I Took a Pill in Ibiza," and His Walk Across America | Podcast Interview | E113

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Mike Posner on "Cooler Than Me," "I Took a Pill in Ibiza," and His Walk Across America | Podcast Interview | E113