Hot Girl Syndrome (w/ Thalia Ouimet)

Prepare to crack the code of modern love with the Thalia Ouimet, a dating coach and matchmaker whose upcoming book "How To Attract The Right Guy" promises to transform the way you navigate the wilds of romance. As we chat with Thalia and PajamaCat, we dissect the perplexing intersections of career, femininity, and the search for a soulmate in today’s world. From making the first move online, to what really turns off potential partners, we're spilling all the secrets and laughs you need to steer your love life in the right direction.

Ever wondered if the city you're in is sabotaging your dating life? We tackle the distinct challenges faced by singles in different locales, comparing the vibrant, sometimes overwhelming, scenes of cities like Miami and New York to the more transient, party-centric vibes of Nashville. Learn how your environment shapes your romantic encounters and the strategies that can help you stand out in any crowd, be it through subtle cues or the boldness of a digital 'handkerchief' drop.

Finally, gear up for a whirlwind of attraction tips, first date etiquette, and online dating hacks that are sure to revamp your approach to finding "The One." As we anticipate the release of Thalia's game-changing guide, we're not just talking theories and tactics, but also sharing real-life stories of dating triumphs and faux pas that will have you both nodding in agreement and laughing out loud. Join us for a heartfelt, humorous journey through the labyrinth of love – you might just emerge with your heart's compass pointing true north ..

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome back to in the booth.
I'm Sean booth and thank youguys for tuning in.
Wherever you're listening fromMaybe you're listening from
Sacramento, california, maybeyou are up in Aguam,
massachusetts, or maybe you arein Lebanon, tennessee.
Wherever you are, we appreciateyour support.
We love you guys.
You can watch all theseepisodes on YouTube.
Head over there to our page.

(00:30):
We've got a TikTok page and,most importantly, we've got a
couple guests in the studiotoday.
It's going to be a fun day herein Nashville, tennessee.
We've got the cat back in thebuilding.
She's sitting on the love seattoday and, folks, she is wearing
her pajamas.
She just said she's got asweatshirt that says Aloha,
she's a big Hawaiian.
Now Some black spandex.

(00:50):
What does it say?
It's got the islands on thesleeve.
We've got a couple necklaces.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Yeah, it's actually one, but yeah what that's one
chain.

Speaker 1 (00:59):
That is connected baby connected and we've got
some what snake shoes snakeshoes.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Snake shoes, snake shoes.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
We got PJ cat in the building today.
Everybody give it up.
And to my left today, veryexcited for this conversation,
she is a dating coach and shejust came out with a book.
It's actually coming out thisValentine's Day.
All right, she's a matchmaker,a dating coach and a book for

(01:29):
all you ladies out there on howto find true love.
She is Talia Wee Metz, welcome.

Speaker 3 (01:37):
Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1 (01:38):
So you help people find love.

Speaker 3 (01:41):
I do, I do that full time.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
How'd you get into that?

Speaker 3 (01:44):
You know, I think it was a natural knack that just
kind of happened.
I was setting people up forfree all the time and my mentor
grows, you know you could getpaid to do this and turn it into
a profession.
I said get out of town.
She's like no seriously.
So I worked for the largestagency for a couple years,
learned the ropes and then saidno, I can, I can handle this.
So I went to the big leagues,moved to New York, started my

(02:04):
own company and now been in itfor about had my own company for
years.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Okay that's impressive.
So then I got to ask your lovelife got to be a piece of cake,
right?

Speaker 3 (02:14):
Walk in the park, honey.
Yeah, yes, so fun.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Okay, yeah, all right .
Well, your book coming out thisValentine's Day and, like I
said, it's for the women.

Speaker 3 (02:25):
It is.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
What can they expect?

Speaker 3 (02:27):
So here's the thing With matchmaking.
I only work with men, so I hearevery ick they have.
I hear their desires, what theywant, what are the things that
women do that stand out to them?
And I said to myself well, holdon, I have all this data and I
have 10 years worth of data.
I might as well create a bookand share it with the world.
So, ladies, you are in for areal treat, because I reveal

(02:49):
everything in the book.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
All right, so anyway, we get a copy over across the
way here to Samcat.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yes, I love that.
Thank you so much for includingme in this conversation.
I mean, yeah, I'm open minded.
I'm still accepting any and allfeedback to an extent.
I think that my perspective onlove in general and partnership
has definitely evolved as I'vegotten older.
I think as it should, assomeone who's still single and a

(03:16):
very busy working professional.
And I think the biggest asteriskin my life right now is that
I'm in Nashville and I don'twant to shit on Nashville
because I do love it, but it'shard here and I'm not saying
that it's.
I've never dated in New York,in LA and all of the places that
are other quote unquote bigcities.
But you know, I have been herefor an extended period of time
now and I see a lot of the samebehaviors that are uninteresting

(03:42):
to me.
So I kind of go on like aroller coaster ride of like I'm
really going to be open minded,I'm going to try and I'm going
to put my best foot forward intothen also just becoming like a
recluse and I'm just like I willdie alone and that's okay, you
know.

Speaker 3 (03:56):
I love that you say that, because you just said I
want to put my best foot forwardand then you went.
You shifted from negative topositive and that positivity is
what's going to get you to theright guy.
Because what they have foundwith the law of attraction is
when, when women say, oh, allmen are dogs, all men are
cheaters, that energy you putout it comes right back.
So you actually do attractcheaters, liars, all the things.

(04:18):
So I tell my clients I'm like,start saying only great guys
exist, only the best is outthere in the city.
I love dating in the city and Iswear to God your entire world
will change.
We'll have attraction.

Speaker 1 (04:28):
That's right.
Say it three times right nowSam Katten Nashville has the
best guys in the world.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
I want to believe you .
I really, really do.
I love, love.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
And.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
I, I, I love that, I'm sure, but I, I also am a
realist and I, I'm living it,and that's the thing is that,
like, yes, I truly believe inthe law of attraction.
I think that works even outsideof just romantic situations.
As someone who's competitiveand I'm willing to put in the

(05:01):
work and I'm willing to maybe dothe things that other people
aren't willing to do, that worksin every part of life except
for love.
I wanted to buy a house by thetime I was 30.
I did it.
I wanted to work in the musicindustry I did it.
Those things are all kind oflike a checklist of things that

(05:22):
I need to do.
You want to lose weight becauseyou want to be in this
competition?
You can do that.
Like it's so much moremethodical in it.
And then the only thing I feellike I have not been successful
in applying that to is romanceis love.
You can I feel like I have beenpositive I am always fucking
positive until I'm not but likeI'm I have a bubbly personality.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
What's the percentage of that positivity over there?

Speaker 2 (05:47):
But you know what I'm saying.
It's like I don't think all menare dogs.
I don't think all men are liarsand cheaters and I'm not like I
don't need no man.
I hate that narrative.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
Well, I hear you saying that you're really good
at manifesting because you gotyour first house by the time you
were 30.
You got into music industry andyou wanted to.
So I think you have alreadyuncovered the manifestation
piece.
So if you bring thatmanifestation into attracting
your dream guy, it's a done deal.

Speaker 1 (06:11):
So, sam Kat, you're over there talking about hard
work.
It sounds like Hard work to geta house.
You worked hard to get the jobyou wanted.
Worked hard in gymnastics.
Now, talia, is that somethingwhere you think finding the
right person, your relationship,love, your life is hard work?
Or is it more of just by chance, like your path and your life
led you to this person's path?

Speaker 3 (06:33):
I think it's all a dance and, by the way, great
question, because it's a dancebetween this is the right timing
, it's an alignment for you, butit's also putting in the work,
right?
So the girl that's sitting athome on the couch never goes out
, not even on dating apps.
It's not going to happen bychance, right?
So there's a dance of I'm goingto expose myself, put myself
out there.
I'm also going to have apositive mindset, but I'm also

(06:55):
going to let the universe, god,whatever, let it happen on its
own.
Okay, so it's a dance.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
Sam Kat's a pretty good dancer.

Speaker 2 (07:03):
I am actually a great dancer.
Thank you for noticing that.
Yeah, I agree with everythingyou're saying, because I do
think that it is.
I mean not to steal your word,but it is a dance, because I
think that you know, not thatI've been married, but a lot of
my, everyone that I know ismarried and having children and
moving along in their own lives,and it was kind of a

(07:26):
combination of both what you'resaying.
I've had some friends that haveevery dating app there is and
have gone on a hundred datesthis year.
And then I have other friendsthat just like, fell in love
with the first guy they met inchemistry class and college, and
it's just kind of like youcan't tell me that one is more
correct than the other.
I think it's like an individualexperience, obviously to

(07:47):
everyone.
But what if you feel likeyou're doing those things?
I am.
I mean, listen, I don't messaround with all of the dating
apps, but I have been on hinge.
I've gone on a couple ofsuccessful dates from there and
then a lot of not successfuldates from there, but I also I
do put myself out there.
I don't sit on my couch everynight, I'm actually a busy body.

(08:10):
So then, what are the thingsthat could be altered, if I am
already doing those things?

Speaker 3 (08:17):
So here's the thing we have to remember Manifesting
a job is so different thanmanifesting a partner, because
there's one more person to thisequation.
So what if your divine lifepartner is not ready for you yet
?
Like what if he's in arelationship right now and he's
figuring out that this girl isnot for him?
So he has to get out of thissituation, heal from it, and

(08:38):
then he can come into your lifeand then you guys can be
together.
So that's why I say it's such adance, because you're also
counting on another person to beat that right place, at the
right time, in the rightheadspace and single.
So that's why you just have tobe a little patient with it.

Speaker 2 (08:51):
I am 33 years old.
I feel, like I, this is themost patient I've ever been in
my life.
But you know what, I appreciateit.
Like I said at the beginning ofthis, I it's I'm not like
closed off to any ideas and Ithink that there isn't one right
way to do it, and so maybe youdo have a perspective that I
have not thought about.
It just it feels defeating, Idon't know.

(09:14):
Like I don't have any negative,I'm eating my hair today.
I don't have any negativefeelings about love or finding,
like you said, the divinepartner I love that word, by the
way I I just feel defeated.
I repeatedly find myselfgetting let down.
So I'm just like why am I doingthis to myself?
Almost like that kind ofquestion is like maybe this just

(09:34):
isn't for me.

Speaker 3 (09:35):
But it is, but it is.
And the second, we go down thatroad path of maybe this isn't
for me, and we get that dark.
That's when we start pushing itaway.
And then we create these thingscalled love blocks.
And we don't want to do thatbecause when we create these
love blocks, he's not coming foryou anymore.
So we want to and here's thething Take a pause, step away
from trying to look for it andjust say I'm ready, I'm letting

(09:59):
it come to me.

Speaker 2 (10:00):
I'm ready, I'm letting it come to me.
Yes.

Speaker 1 (10:03):
Yeah, what about the old saying like you can't be
looking for it and then it'llcome to you?

Speaker 3 (10:07):
I think I love it because, as long as you're doing
your part, right, right, you'rehealed from whatever past
relationship you had.
You're also on one or twodating app.
You're also aware of yoursurroundings when you go to the
coffee shop or when you're outwith your girls.
As long as you're doing thatpart of it, yes, let it come to
you, especially since you're awoman.
I mean, men are the hunters bynature, so let it come to you.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Okay, wait, hold on, hold on Hold on.
We got to go with this men bythe hunters thing.
Sean, listen you already have ababy at home waiting for you.
I need to have more questions.
Okay, I know that you said thatyou work with like high caliber
men, and that is, you only workon the men side, but I coach
women too, I'm sorry.

Speaker 3 (10:52):
So I coach women and men separate business and.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
I have a matchmaking business.
Okay, I misunderstood that.
I apologize.

Speaker 3 (10:57):
No worries.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
Okay, well, since you said that you're going to spill
all the tea in your book andmaybe I do have to wait for this
, but I would just like a littlesnippet here.
I have found this has been likea more recently that I've
entered my 30s and there are.
You know, half of thepopulation looks at you like you
have three heads like, oh myGod, you're 33 and single.
What's wrong with you?
And then the other half is likeyes, queen, live your life.

(11:20):
What I have noticed or heardfrom maybe family members or I
would use the term friendsloosely, but people that I know,
that know me.
Obviously I have a boldpersonality.
If you read any comments aboutthis podcast, I'm either the
greatest thing on earth or themost annoying person they've
ever met, and I'm both and Iwear that proudly.

(11:42):
There have been repeatedsituations where people have
mentioned to me they're likewell, you put off this vibe,
like you're so independentthat's so intimidating for a man
to come into, because you'vedeveloped this whole life on
your own and all this stuff.
And I have two parts to thisquestion.
Number one is that actually athing?

(12:03):
And number two is what the fuckdid they expect me to do.
Because what else was Isupposed to do?
Not buy a house, not get thejob, not travel the world, not
live my life Like what was theother option to that?
That would make me quoteunquote, more appealing to
someone.

Speaker 3 (12:21):
You will love this book.
I mean when I tell you you willlove it, because it will
resonate in so many ways,because you and I are very
similar, by the way.
I'm a boss.
I've bought everything on myown, built an empire on my own,
so I have this, like I call it,the hard girl era, and then the
soft girl era, and in the book,in chapter two, I talk about
tapping back into your divinefeminine energy, your goddess

(12:43):
energy.
Men love the soft girl and youjust it's a dance.
You have to figure out a way ofokay, I'm in my feminine right
now because I'm not at work.
I'm going to dial that back inand it will.
Naturally, guys will just cometo you because they love the
feminine energy and I understandeverything you're saying
because I've been there.
I really have.
So you just have to learn howto dial it back.

(13:05):
And in the book I reveal all mytips on how I crank up the soft
girl and then how I go backinto boss during the day.

Speaker 1 (13:11):
That is as a guy here .

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Okay, yeah, sorry, I forgot you're here.
What's up?

Speaker 1 (13:17):
No, I'd like to say that I find that attractive
female who has their shittogether, who has a house, who
is independent, like I feel likethat's an attractive trait.
But I guess there is kind ofthis dance where you want to see
a little bit softer as well,but also you don't want to be
somebody who's a completepushover and just like yes, sir,

(13:38):
I'll do whatever you want.
I think that is the ultimategoal.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
You think that no, no , no, no.
What she was saying about, like, the thing I crave more than
ever now at this age, is apartner that allows me to be the
feminine version of myself.
My job is I mean, I don't wantto say it's masculine, but it's
like I think about everyone elseall the time.

(14:03):
Every day, of every minute, ofevery second.
I'm on the road and I love that.
I love being the provider andlike the troubleshooter and all
of those things, but I wouldlove nothing more than for me to
come home and someone to takecare of me, and I feel like
that's a very feminine thing tolean into.
I just have not found thebalance of that, because I don't

(14:25):
know if it's something that I'mputting out there, but the
amount of men that I've met thatat first seem like what Sean is
saying.
I love that you're doing this, Ilove that you have this
together.
This is so attractive that youcan do that.
And then somehow it turns intothis like, well, you're always
busy and I'm always the lastthing, and like, okay, but you

(14:46):
said that you liked that Itraveled for work and that I had
this going for me, and now allof a sudden, that's a fault.
And then it's all of a suddenlike well, you're not taking
care of me, and I was like well,I'm not your mom.
That like mommy issue vibecomes out Like I find I people
are like what's your type?
And I'm like, unfortunately,whatever I just described, I
find myself accidentally fallinginto not, I wouldn't say a lot,

(15:07):
but like more than I would likeand I don't know how to like,
maybe suss that out earlierwhere I'm like, oh, this isn't
for me, this is a wrong vibe.
Until I'm like, you know, threemonths in.
So it's like not new, but it'snot old.
I'm just like wait, what am Idoing?

Speaker 3 (15:21):
Hmm, hmm, hmm, there's a lot to unpack here.

Speaker 1 (15:26):
I mean I was going to say I feel like we should have
a therapy session right now.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Oh, I don't know if it's therapy, but if she has all
the tips and tricks and she'sseen the other side.

Speaker 3 (15:33):
I've seen the other side and I've also seen your
side too, and so here's onething we both know right, if we
keep doing the same thing, we'regoing to keep getting the same
result, right?
So, whatever you're doing,you're attracting the same kind
of guy and it's not workingbecause it's not what you want,
right?
You're not going to be themasculine man, right?
Hmm, someone's going to takecare of you, someone's going to
let you be in your soft girl era.
So I think reading the book,it's a good start.

(15:55):
And I think the second thing,too, is just also recognizing
that those weren't your people.
Yeah, they weren't.
They weren't meant for you andthey came into your life to show
you.
These are my dislikes and theseare my preferences, and I don't
want this kind of guy.

Speaker 1 (16:09):
So obviously there's so many different types of guys,
so many different types ofladies and wants and needs.
Would you maybe provide us with, let's say, three of the top
things that guys look for whenthey come to you and they're
like hey, talia, I'm reallylooking for a woman.
I'm so lonely, I want to findlove.

(16:31):
Here's what I need to have in apartner.
What do you hear more thananything else from a guy?

Speaker 3 (16:39):
The most.
The thing that is so consistentis that guys always come to me
and they say she has to havepassion and purpose.
He goes.
I don't care necessarily whatshe does for work, as long as
she has passion and purpose.
She needs to wake up every dayand have a purpose, because I
don't want her to live in myshadows and I'm like, okay,
that's cool, I love that.

(16:59):
He's like she can be the yogainstructor or she can be the
next CEO of Facebook, I don'tcare, as long as there's passion
and purpose.
That was the biggest thing.
And another thing is to berespected.
Women love to feel like theyare being respected and they're
not emasculated, so I thinkthat's a big one too.

Speaker 1 (17:16):
Okay.
Okay, that sounds about right.
Yeah, I think that's you wantto have somebody, is that?
A resonate.
Yeah, I mean, I think respectis definitely a big thing and
for sure, you want to be withsomebody who's passionate about
whatever it is when they wake upin the morning and have a
purpose.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
I agree with both of those things, but from a female
perspective as well, because Ialso.
I don't care what my partnerdoes for work, so long as they
are passionate about it or theyhave a job that pays the bills
and they have some sort ofpassion outside of that, that
also works for me.
It's just something that it'slike drive and commitment to a

(17:55):
vision, or whatever word youwant to use is so attractive,
because I feel like when you'retrying to find a partner, you're
trying to almost predict yourfuture in a weird way, and it's
like if you have the tools inorder to be able to build
together.
All I'm really looking for is ateammate.
I have no idea what directionwe're going to go, but I'd like
to know that you are down forthe ride.

(18:17):
No-transcript.
I again like the masculine andfeminine.
That's what I'm attracted to.
I am not looking for someone tonecessarily.
I quit my job and I'm yourwell-kept woman.
Some days that sounds nice.
I'm not going to lie, but I dowant to have like.
My parents are still marriedafter 30 plus I don't know how
old am I 30, they're 35 years innow, and it's like I see them

(18:40):
work as a team.
That's really all I want.
It doesn't have to be anythingspecific where to kind of like I
don't want to rip on otherpeople, but I do see a lot of
women, especially when I wasyounger.
They're like he has to be sixfoot and play for the Packers
and this and this, and I'm likeall of those things don't matter
when it really comes down tolike, in 20 years from now, what

(19:04):
if I have breast cancer?
Does it really matter if heplayed for the Packers or if
he's six foot?
No, it matters the tools thathe had when I was dating him.
So it's like a juggle offinding those things that I
don't know.
I mean, I'm getting ahead ofmyself, obviously, but it's just
like I think that I am way moremindful now in what is almost

(19:29):
like an intangible that someonebrings to the table, and I guess
it's refreshing to hear thatmen are saying that on the other
side.
For sure, but where are they?

Speaker 1 (19:41):
Do you find cities being different as far as the
dating pool?
Because she and a lot offemales in Nashville say dating
here is impossible because it's.
There's a lot of attractiveyoung females and, like you were
saying on a podcast, it'salways like the next batch comes
in of the young 20-somethingyear olds and it's a party city

(20:02):
and guys are always out and alot of guys don't want to settle
down here and she calls itnever, never lands.
How do you feel about that inMiami and New York City and all
those bigger cities?

Speaker 3 (20:13):
So every city has its own set of challenges.
That's what I've learned.
Dating in every city hassomething unique about it.
Now, on the flip side, wouldn'tyou rather date Nashville,
atlanta, new York, la, than,like the middle, I don't know
Lincoln, nebraska?
Yeah, I mean, you just havemore to work with and you have
transplants in different places,so you have different.

(20:33):
You just have more to pick from.
And so I think dating in a bigcity is awesome.
I think it can be fun andexciting, and it's really about
changing that mindset, becausethe second you go down that
mindset of uh, dating in thecity is so hard, it's miserable.
They're always going after the20-something year olds.
That's what you're going tocontinue to meet is guys chasing
the 22 year olds, becauseyou're putting that energy out

(20:56):
there.
Every thought counts, yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
You have attraction.
You're a big energy girl, I am,I'm so big on energy and it
works.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:02):
I mean I've manifested everything I've ever
gotten.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Yeah, I feel like the big city small city thing is
also like a blessing and a curse, like maybe you know, there's
obviously a lot of people whodate their hometown significant
other and grow up and have anamazing life.
And then you move to a citywhere it's almost overkill and
you're always looking for what'snext.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
So yes, but also in a big city you have more options
on where to go to meet this guy.

Speaker 1 (21:27):
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
So, if you know your, think about, think about the
kind of partner you want, right?
Is he an athlete or is he a bigstate guy?
You know, go to a steakhouseinstead of the bar.
You can.
I tried this, by the way, inLondon and this is in the book.
The story is in the book.
It's called a Notting Hillstory and as we went to this
place it was like a speakeasy.
I don't want to give it allaway, but I showed all my
girlfriends exactly how to pickup guys.

(21:51):
And if you just insert yourselfin a situation where you're not
making the first move, but youjust opened the door and they
were able to walk through it.

Speaker 1 (21:59):
Let's do a little scenario right now.
Okay, how to pick up guys?

Speaker 3 (22:03):
How to pick up guys Okay.

Speaker 1 (22:05):
All right, you walk into a bar.
You're here in Nashville,tennessee.
You walk in a honky tonkcentral.
You're like, ooh, I like thatguy over there.
How do you play it out fromthere?

Speaker 3 (22:12):
So if he let's just say he's sitting at the bar,
yeah, I am going to go to thebar, I'm going to become best
friends with a bartender and I'mgoing to tell the bartender
this is what I'm doing.
I'm trying to get that guy'sattention.
Can you just play?
Can we have this dance where,if I need your help, you can
escape me from the conversation?
He's like I got you and, by theway, bartenders love to help.
They are.
This is making their nightalive.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (22:33):
Okay, they're bored.
So you want to just give himthe eye contact, look at him,
turn, make sure that you're notmoving your entire body language
facing him, because then that'sgiving.
I'm fully into you and youdon't want to do that either.
So just ask him like oh, whichget for a drink?
I'm still thinking about what Iwant to get.
And he's like oh, I got thiswhiskey, blah, blah, blah.
And then he's like you knowwhat?

(22:54):
Here, this one's on me.
And then you have aconversation going because you
opened the door and it's all menneed, because they're so scared
to come up to us and saysomething first, because they're
afraid of rejection.
So it really comes down to youjust open the door, make that
first move and then let him walkthrough it.

Speaker 1 (23:12):
Yeah, I feel like men are pretty simple, pretty
simple, like pretty easy.

Speaker 2 (23:16):
I agree 100% I agree with that.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
So now, in that situation, though, wouldn't you
want that guy to come up to youand say something?
Would you be more attracted tohim?
No, if he made the first move,it doesn't matter for you,
because I know a lot of females,too, are just like.
I want the guy to make thefirst move.

Speaker 3 (23:33):
Oh, my goodness.
No, If you're really oldfashioned, then you would look
back in the Victorian era, whenwomen would drop the
handkerchief and when they wouldlike a guy and they saw
something they like, they woulddrop their handkerchief and he
would pick it up and go honey,you dropped something.
She's like oh, but did I?
And it's like it's actuallynever changed.
Women always made the firstmove.
We just had to open the doorand let the guy walk through it.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
He's okay.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
We just have to drop the handkerchief in modern time
dating.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
I feel like dropping the handkerchief in modern time.
Dating is eye contact.
Yeah, for sure, eye contact.

Speaker 1 (24:07):
You know, everybody knows.
If you're at a bar, you're at arestaurant, you make eye
contact with somebody like, oh,okay, yeah, this is happening.

Speaker 3 (24:13):
For sure Wait.
So according to statistics, ittakes up to five times for a guy
to realize that the eye look isfor him.

Speaker 1 (24:20):
Really.

Speaker 3 (24:21):
So, ladies, if you're listening to this, just
remember that the first twoglances he might think you're
looking at the guy behind him.
He might think that you'relooking at someone else, but up
to five times he knows it's you.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
That's funny.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
I have to look at you five times for you to notice.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
Yes, give him the little look.
Is that similar?

Speaker 1 (24:44):
I don't know If it takes a guy five times, you
might not want to be with thatguy.
It might be a little slow.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Well, I'm just already preemptively thinking.
So I'm going to have to ask youfive times to put your clothes
in the laundry bin instead of infront of them as well.

Speaker 3 (24:57):
How long does?

Speaker 2 (24:57):
this go on into the relationship.

Speaker 3 (25:00):
But you would be surprised.
Oh my gosh, I mean I don't wantto overshare this.
Whatever, this was like eightyears ago.
Overshare everything, overshareeverything.
So eight years ago I was at theHenley Regatta in England and I
saw this guy and he was like mydream guy, okay, and I gave him
the look and he goes me.
And I go, yeah, you and he goes.

(25:21):
Or him and he pointed at hisbest friend and I go no, you and
he goes.
Okay, so he came down becausewe were watching the rowing race
and we ended up having, weended up dating, we ended up
having the best relationship.
It was so harmonious and it'sjust so funny how he's like had
you not opened that door andjust look at me, I would have

(25:43):
never.
He was like you were sointimidating, I would have never
.
And I said, see, just to dropthe handkerchief.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Yeah, yeah, and I'm more intimidated by girls and
afraid of getting rejected.

Speaker 3 (25:53):
For sure.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
But I also on that.
No, I have a theory.
I think that females do nothandle rejection as well as guys
do.

Speaker 3 (26:05):
What makes you say that?

Speaker 1 (26:07):
I think that guys are probably used to it.
I think guys grow up likeputting women on pedestals.
They know like I'm going toshoot my shot with her, shoot my
shot with her, and it's like Ifeel like a girl can usually get
any guy she really wants if sheknows what she's doing to an
extent, right.

Speaker 3 (26:25):
But once she can't.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
I feel like they take that rejection a little bit
harder.

Speaker 3 (26:30):
I think it depends on how much work she's done
herself.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:33):
If she's done therapy , she's had a life coach, then
she can take that rejection andturn it into a positive way,
like rejection is God'sprotection.

Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (26:41):
Easy, but someone who's done zero work on herself.
I could see that.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
But I feel like guys are like all right on to the
next one and girls like maybemore.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
Not all guys.
So I mean I think about whoI've worked with and some of
them it takes a beating on themfor a second.

Speaker 1 (26:54):
Yeah, what do you think about that?

Speaker 2 (26:56):
there, sam Kat.
No, I don't think you're wrong,luth, I really do.
I am just like racking my brainof my own personal memories and
those girls that also maybedon't take rejection well
themselves.
I have seen a pattern ofbehavior where they are also
horrendous to boys, who menexcuse me that come up to them

(27:21):
and they're like no.
I will never be that woman.
You could look like an ingrowntoenail and have absolutely
nothing going for you, and Iwill still be nice to you
Because I know it takes ballsfor you to come up and talk to
me and it's just like a level ofhuman decency.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Or my interpretation of that, but I've seen the girls
that you're talking about.
It's ironic that I think it'snot a Venn diagram, it's just a
complete circle of the girls whoare bad at rejection, getting
rejected, and are also heinouswhen they are rejecting someone.

Speaker 1 (27:52):
Right.
And it's the same girl.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
It's so icky, but that girl is like married with
three kids right now and sellingme Monet online.

Speaker 1 (28:00):
Yeah, but probably still mad about the guy that
rejected her.

Speaker 2 (28:04):
I mean maybe, but it's just.
It worked somewhere along theline, right, or did it Because?

Speaker 1 (28:11):
when she lays her head down at night.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
She's thinking about Shawn.
Booth turned her down at HonkyTonk Central 2012.
What up?
What about you, Shawn?
Are you good with rejection?
What's going on?
I mean, I feel like you'renotorious for dating.
That's how we met you.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, for sure, but no, I think that.
What do you mean?
Am I good with rejection?

Speaker 2 (28:30):
Are you good, like okay, when you were out on the
prowl?
Yeah, and you are at.
You know your other way.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Well, I say that because when, like I have dated
females who you know, I've beenvery open and honest with them
about what kind of to expect ina relationship, or what the
relationship was and anytime itended, or any type of like you
know me pulling back, or it'slike they wanted to take my
entire life away and burn me atthe stake for rejection.

(28:58):
That's how I felt.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
They have not worked on themselves.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah cause I also feel, I feel like and back to my
point, I think, a lot ofattractive females.
They think that they can getany guy they want, but when they
can't, oh, I think you'retalking about hot girl syndrome.
Yes, hot girl syndrome, that'swhat that is.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
Yeah, care to elaborate Hot girl syndrome.
I mean it's kind of so.
It's just when someone is sophysically attractive and that's
all they have going for them.
And so if that's what, if howpeople pour into their value
system is according to theirlooks, how hot they are, then
the second that it's not beingvalidated, there's a reaction
piece, right?

(29:38):
So that's why I call it the hotgirl syndrome.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (29:41):
The rejection is definitely gonna hit that If
that's their full identity.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
What if they're ugly?
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 3 (29:47):
Then they don't have hot girl syndrome.

Speaker 1 (29:49):
Yeah, that's the real girl syndrome, yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:51):
No, I think that's fair, because I feel like I've
seen all of these things thatwe're saying like in real time.
I can like even remember wherewe were and who was doing it.
I have really also.
I think, like when you'reyounger and when you're in
college, you're fresh out ofcollege or whatever you just
like have whatever group offriends that you kind of like
ran into.

(30:12):
And now, especially with socialmedia, I've seen people that I
went to college with that likeyeah, I mean, I kind of check in
on their life, but we're notnecessarily friends.
And sometimes I see thempostings and I'm like, oh my God
, you're still the same.
Like you have not done it,you're still suffering from hot
girl syndrome and it's not cute.
Well, it's never cute, but likeit's definitely not cute when
you're 35.

(30:32):
And like I just feel like youshould be a woman by now, type
of thing.
Which leads me into my nextquestion for you what are your
opinions of how social media haschanged the dating game in
general?
You said that obviously youhave extensive experience, and
when you started in thisindustry, social media was not
what it is today.

Speaker 3 (30:52):
So true, okay, so how has social media changed in
today's day and age?
Well, as far as dating goes,it's changed everything, because
now we suffer with the paradoxof choice.
So now we have so many optionswe can talk to someone in Italy
if we want to, or someone inLondon or in a different city,
because we have Instagram, wehave Snapchat.
So now the paradox of choicehas caused people to have a

(31:16):
harder time making a decision,and they might have the best
thing in front of them, but theycan't make a decision because
they're like well then there isBetty Lou over here in Seattle,
so, and you have access to itbecause of social media.

Speaker 1 (31:29):
We talked about this.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Yeah, and I do think it is a blessing and a curse.
Do you have?
I mean Right?

Speaker 1 (31:37):
because we said, like our grandparents, probably as
happy as could be, and theymarried the first person they
dated and that was all they knew.
And look at society now.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Yeah, and I think that it's.
I don't know, it makes menervous for the future too.
I feel like if the pendulumswings completely one way, maybe
it will come back eventually,but I don't know if you have any
statistics on this or if you'veencountered any of this in your
work.
But like we're talking aboutdating in general, like the
beginning stages of dating, Iguess, like having to meet

(32:09):
someone or make the decision too, let's flash forward and say
that we did make a decision andwe went with Betty Lou.
Have you seen any difference inlike cheating or stepping out
and like people who are, maybethey did make a decision and
then it didn't work out becauseof whatever situation, and then
they come back to you for like aokay, now I'm back in the

(32:30):
matchmaking world.
Can you help me on this behalf?

Speaker 3 (32:33):
Has that ever happened?
No, that's never happened.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
If it's the same, it's just easier to cheat.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
But is it because I feel like now you can't get away
with anything becauseeverything can be traced and
tracked.

Speaker 1 (32:43):
It's easier to access , I guess.

Speaker 2 (32:46):
It's easier to attempt it, it's harder to get
away with it.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
We're back in the day .
I don't know how or where youwould go.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
Well, I just feel like now there's so much more
like emotional cheating, becauseyou can talk to people outside
of your relationship which islike, yeah, I mean you might not
meet up with them physically,but for me personally, emotional
cheating is way more hurtful tome than physical act of
cheating.
I don't know if that's anunpopular opinion.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
Yeah, and what do you define as emotional cheating?

Speaker 2 (33:15):
If you are Well.
I mean, I feel like I am abroken record when I say that
I'm looking for a teammate,someone to like work in, through
life with me, and if you chooseto not necessarily go to me to
work through something and youstep out, whether it be to
either bitch about me and whatI'm doing wrong in our

(33:36):
relationship or I'm just feelingreally lonely, and you go to
someone else instead of bringingthat to me, it's like we were
supposed to be a teammate.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
What about like social media?
What are you talking about?
Like?
You find that to be emotionalcheating.

Speaker 2 (33:49):
Yeah, I mean I think that we've talked about it
before is that if you're in arelationship, your opposite sex
relationships should alter toreflect the fact that you're in
a relationship with someone thatyou respect.
I don't think that, like, allDMs are damning, like, oh my God
, you DMed someone, so now we'rebroken up.
I don't think you need to beliking ass and titty photos.

(34:09):
I just don't think.

Speaker 1 (34:11):
Would you want a guy that's following, like a bunch
of hot girls, just to followthem?

Speaker 2 (34:14):
No, because why are you following them Exactly?
And also, to be fair, if I metsomeone and they were following
a bunch of only fans girls likeI'm not going to be someone that
like shits on them because oftheir past.
Like if that was what you weredoing before you met me, that's
not in my business.
Honestly, like that has shapedyou to be the person that you

(34:35):
are today.
It's like from the day that wedecide that we're going to try
and do this together, that'smore of what I'm going to be a
little more critical about youractions, your behavior, your DMs
, your ass photos, like thosekind of things.
Like I'm not going to go backand like in 2014, you were
liking all of these pictures.
Like that's irrelevant to me,because what the hell was I
doing in 2014?

(34:55):
I don't know.
I was just a little moresecretive about it.
I'm just kidding, I'm justkidding, but you know I mean, I
think it's, I don't know there'sa blessing in a curse.
I feel like we're saying thesame thing over and over again.
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:06):
Right.
Well, I do want to say thisthough Social media has caused a
paradox of choice, there's onegood thing that has happened
from it.
So now, for the first time, wehave TikTok and Instagram and
YouTube, where we have expertsrevealing dating tips, and
people, for the first time, aresaying, oh my gosh, I didn't
even think about that Like Ishould.
When I think about my person.

(35:27):
I shouldn't think about how Iwant six feet and above for
height, you know preferences.
I should think about what's hischaracter like.
Do we have anything in commonbeyond just like I'm attracted
to you?
And I think, for the first timenow we have free tools that
people can go on there and lookand see.
Okay, this is a better way ofvetting versus.
I didn't really know how to vetbecause our parents didn't

(35:47):
teach us those things.
So, on the upside, you know, ofcourse, social media has done a
lot of damaging things forrelationships, but it did also
provide us with some tools andreferences.

Speaker 1 (35:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
Can you go into the process ofyour matchmaking business?
So you have, obviously,somebody comes to you and it's a
male.
You said right.
So you work with a lot of guys.
They're telling you whatthey're looking for.
Now do you just already have apool of women that you know that
you can pull from, or do youstart searching to get these

(36:20):
women?
How does that work?

Speaker 3 (36:21):
So the company definitely has a database of
single, awesome, qualified women.
My clients typically come to meand they say, okay, I'm in a
phase of life where I've builtmy career, everything's going
great, but I'm not able to sharemy life with someone and that's
the piece that's missing.
And I'm ready to start a family.
And I say, okay, cool.
So what are you looking for?
What's your religiousbackground?

(36:42):
What are your political views?
Because the Lord knows, we'renot going to put a Trumpster and
a Biden together.
That's not going to work,because the value system is the
foundation.
So I always make sure that Iunderstand their political views
, their religious views, howthey were raised, you know, and
also what are their favoritethings to do on their downtime.
Because if I have a guy clientthat's an avid skier and he's

(37:04):
also a conservative and he comesfrom, you know, a sweet, loving
family and he's looking forsomeone who also has those
things in common, then I'm goingto search for exactly that in
the database.

Speaker 1 (37:15):
Okay, how do you feel about the dating shows now
where you can't even see theperson?

Speaker 3 (37:21):
Oh, love is blind.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Yeah, love is blind.
What do you think of that?

Speaker 3 (37:25):
Oh my gosh.
You know, two of my friendswent on there for the Atlanta
one for the first show.
I think love is blind isinteresting because it tested
something that none of us reallyknew.
Right, we were like isattraction really that powerful?

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (37:41):
And what I think they realized is that that is the
biggest piece, because that'swhat makes a best guy friend
right, just a friend versussomeone you want to be with.
Is there sexual attraction?
And so love is blind, kind ofshowed us that even if there's a
crazy great chemistry through awall and we have all these

(38:01):
things in common, we have greatharmony right, there might not
be sexual attraction.

Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
So I think it is important.
We can't ignore attraction.

Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, do you think that I was going to like ask
this and I'm glad that this justnaturally segwayed into that
but do you think that you cangrow to be attracted to a man or
a woman or whoever you're into,or do you think it's like you
know when you first see them?

Speaker 3 (38:30):
So men and women are different about this.
I call it.
Men are like light switches.
It's either on or off.
Either I'm attracted or I'm not.
Women are like dimmers, like,oh, he's a family guy, that's
attractive.
Okay, he's a little bit moreattractive.
Oh, he's funny, he's hilarious.
More attractive.
So women are more like dimmers.
Men are on and off switches.

(38:50):
Either I'm attracted to you andI could have sex with you, or
I'm out.
Do men have?

Speaker 1 (38:54):
icks, Absolutely yeah of course they have icks?

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Okay, but first of all, booth, you didn't even know
what an ick was until like sixmonths ago, so don't even give
me that attitude right now.

Speaker 1 (39:03):
I hate the word ick.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
I know that's my biggest ick, but that's what it
is, though, because it's not aturnoff, it's an ick.
A turnoff has some sort ofsubstantial reason as to why
you're not attracted to them.
An ick is because, like I havean ick right now, because Andrew
is chomping at the computer andI can hear him while I'm trying
to talk to you.
He's wearing soundproofheadphones right now and I hope

(39:25):
he sees this in editing.
Anyways, I digress, I'm justreally distracted by that, but
kind of like the okay lightswitch dimmer.
I think that maybe I'm a manthen.
But I agree with you because Imean someone cannot be as
aesthetically pleasing but ifthey can make me giggle all of a

(39:46):
sudden, I'm like this is such acute man and I'm like I've
never heard a man ever say thator ever even lean into that or
even try it on for size, andit's like so then it leads me to
believe like men don't haveicks because they will sleep
with anything Is that true orfalse?

Speaker 3 (40:03):
No, it's false.
Men absolutely have icks.
I mean, one of my guy friendswas just talking about he goes
Talia.
I don't know where she wentbefore our date but her hair,
when I gave her hugs, smelledlike cigarette smoke and I
immediately got the ick and Iwas like, oh so guys have icks
Absolutely.
There are things that are bigturn offs for them.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Me and my friends have talked about this a lot too
.
Oh, with the nails thing.

Speaker 3 (40:26):
Wait, sean, can you justify is this true?
Because a lot of my clientshave said this.
This is like a big ick for them, girls who aren't well kept,
like nails that are halfway doneor like just aren't well kept.

Speaker 1 (40:39):
Yeah, you want somebody that's kept up.

Speaker 3 (40:43):
Okay, so it's an ick yeah, it's an ick yeah.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
Okay, yeah, I mean I'm trying to think of how, yeah
, somebody's put together forsure, but I'm also one who
doesn't like too much puttogetherness.
Like I think you know, and Ialways tell us to dre, I'm like
I think you're so much moreattracted without makeup, and
I'm not just saying that either.

(41:07):
I just think that a lot ofwomen feel like, under the
society's pressure, have to wearmakeup all the time and it's
like no, I'd rather you just beyourself.
If you go to the gym caked upwith makeup, maybe it makes you
feel better, but I don't wantyou to think that that's
something that guys want.

Speaker 3 (41:24):
That's so true.
By the way.
I have found so many guys noware starting to say they don't
even drink.
Like my consultation processwith my clients, they'll say if
she has a ton of fillers, forgetit.

Speaker 1 (41:34):
I'm not interested in it, yeah.

Speaker 3 (41:36):
I'm like, okay, he's like I want someone natural.
And I'm like, okay, he's like,think about it, I have to bring
her home to my parents.
We're in a different generationwhere fillers weren't a thing,
and so I think that's.
It's so strange to me howeveryone gets all these fillers
and their lips and everything.
And guys, according tostatistics, there was a study
about how your lips are thefifth thing that a guy will

(41:57):
notice.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Yeah, I think it's changed.
I think that's changed over theyears, though, because I never
used to notice this, but now Ialways notice lips Because it's
like such a big thing.
Yeah, yeah, it's crazy, maybebecause the lips are so big
nowadays.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
It's because they have the duck lips now.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:14):
Yeah, damn Kardashians, yeah.
So yeah, guys have X and Italked to.
You know, my buddies, if wewere dating a girl and getting
really close to them, we'd findlike one thing and be like, nope
, we're done, like I don't knowif it was a commitment thing, or
find one little thing and talkourselves out of it.

Speaker 3 (42:38):
Wow that sounds like maybe something else.

Speaker 1 (42:42):
I think so.
Yeah, but I talked to multipleof my best friends the same
thing.
We'll laugh about it.
It'll be like, yeah, I wascrushing on this girl so hard
and then finally, you know, wenton a date and then she said
this, or I noticed this, and Iwas like, nope, can't do it.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
That's an egg.
I know you don't like eggs, butthat's an egg.
Yeah, for sure.
Should we talk about first datedo's and don'ts?

Speaker 1 (43:05):
Yeah, let's do it, let's do it, don't order milk.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
Wait what.

Speaker 2 (43:11):
Oh, sorry, that's just a reference.
I got like roasted because no,not roasted Like I have.
The people were on my team andthe other half were like you're
so picky, obviously you're goingto stay single forever.
But I went on a first date anda grown man ordered a glass of
milk at a coffee shop that heinvited me to, and it was like
jarring, I mean.

(43:31):
But there were obviously otherthings that were not going well
as well.
It wasn't just the milk, butthe milk was the cherry on top,
for sure.

Speaker 3 (43:38):
Okay, because I feel like if he had everything else
and you were really attracted tohim, you maybe have thought it
was endearing.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
So I don't know if it would have been endearing, but
I would have looked past it,okay, yes, yeah, I think if she
was again getting into thephysical thing, if she was, like
, very sexually attracted to him, I don't think she would have
cared about the milk.

Speaker 3 (43:54):
I think so too.

Speaker 2 (43:55):
I don't know, I mean maybe I, who am I to say I have
no idea, I was just fighting formy life out there and I made it
through and I have a funnystory to tell.

Speaker 1 (44:03):
But yeah, First dates do's and don'ts.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
First date.
Okay.
So the first thing, this is thedo's.
You always want to be punctual,showing respect for time.
I think that's one of thebiggest X guys have.
Is girls being like 20, 30minutes late, like not having
any respect for someone's time.
Punctuality is huge.
It goes such a long way.
Do show up as your best self,like show up, be in a good mood

(44:28):
and tell yourself you know what,at the very least, I'm going to
try to make a friend.
I'm going to hear someone'sstory and hear if there's and
maybe there's a romanticchemistry.
Maybe there's not.
So I think showing up as yourbest self is a huge do.
Another thing is putting yourphone away.
Yeah, so important Because youwant to be present, you want to
make sure that you're notmissing any piece of the

(44:48):
conversation.
That was important.
And then, as far as Jonathan, Ilove this one Best thing ever
only have one to two drinks maxon a first date.
Yeah, you would be surprisedhow many people over consume
alcohol on a first date and thenover share.

Speaker 1 (45:04):
Because they're so nervous.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
Because they're so nervous and they're drinking too
much and then they're drunk andthey're over sharing really
sensitive information that withno context.
Just remember you're a stranger, like it's a first date, you
might think this person's acrazy person, but if you had
known them for five years youwould think it's endearing,
right.
So, not over drinking on afirst date.
It's huge.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:26):
And then another don't, I would say, is don't
ever talk about your excellentfirst date Ever.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:33):
Because at the end of the day that's not romantic.
So you're definitely not goingto connect over that.

Speaker 1 (45:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (45:38):
And, quite frankly, it doesn't really tell you
anything about that person,right?
So I would never share anythingabout an excellent first date.
That's like date four, datefour let's cover history.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
I think those are all great things.
Lucky for me I have I check allof those boxes.
I'm always on time.
I'm pretty sure I put my bestfoot forward.
Like I don't show up after thegym, I'm definitely a big put
your phone away person, becauseI feel like what's so important?
I mean, yes, obviously there'sgoing to be extending services
if there's an emergency, butlike, just if you can't take an

(46:13):
hour of your night to focus andtalk to me, then it's just like
what are we doing here?
I have one old fashioned on adrink, on a drink on a date.
That's it One.
If we move to another place,it's going well, Would?

Speaker 1 (46:30):
you like to, but.

Speaker 2 (46:30):
I still feel like that's not a first date.
I don't know.
I mean, I guess it is differentfor each person.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
You can tell I mean yeah, when you're vibing with
somebody, yeah, they're likewould you like to go to the?

Speaker 2 (46:40):
rooftop and you're like sure, then I'll have
another drink.
But if I'm in one location,it's one only.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
I am a lot already.
I don't need alcohol like toadd to that and I also just feel
like it is a.
It's a crutch.
Yeah, it's a crutch, but theexperience that I'm trying to
have, like I'm taking itseriously and I would hope that
the person that I'm there withis as well Like, yes, it doesn't
have to be so formal, but andit's also does it pass the canoe

(47:08):
test?

Speaker 3 (47:09):
So the canoe test is when you think about being stuck
on a canoe in the middle ofnowhere and your cell phones
aren't working and you're stuckout there for six hours straight
and you don't know.
It's only six hours, but that'show long you're with this
person.
Can we just laugh and have agood time?
Can we enjoy each other'scompany, completely sober,
having no phones?
Can we just vibe as the energythere?
And when you add alcohol to it,you have to ask yourself well,

(47:32):
is this person funny becausethey're drunk, or is this person
actually funny?
We actually have real authenticchemistry.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (47:39):
So does it pass the canoe test?
Well, what better way to findout than have a sober date?

Speaker 1 (47:42):
That canoe test.
That's good, because I wasthinking the opposite.
As far as first dates where youshouldn't shouldn't go Like I
am a believer that it shouldn'tbe a dinner where you're stuck
at a table with them for a fewhours I feel like first dates
are best where you can go outand maybe on a hike or something
active or instead of just likesitting there for an extended

(48:05):
period of time right when I feellike it's so forced.
I'd rather do something alittle more casual, I think.
What are your thoughts on that?

Speaker 3 (48:13):
I think it depends on the person.
I think, with my matchmakingclients.
It's different because I'vealready vetted and I already
know that he's her type andshe's his type.
So it's so vetted that I thinka dinner date is appropriate
because, it already has.
It's already teed up forsuccess.
So I think a dinner date forthat situation, but if I was to
say like a hench date and you'venever.

(48:35):
You know what.
This brings up another topic ifyou're a listener on here and
you are dating online, youshould always have a screen call
.
You'd be surprised when you canlearn about someone if you just
talk to them on the phone for10 minutes.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (48:47):
And that will save you a bad date experience.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
For sure.
Yeah, I would always FaceTimebefore we're going on any dates.
If we're texting or we meetonline and then you're texting
and then it's like all rightphone call, then it's like
FaceTime before I go in person.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
I've actually never done that.

Speaker 1 (49:06):
Really.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:07):
Screen call.

Speaker 3 (49:09):
You want to vet these people.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
So you just text them and you're like all right, I'll
meet you here.

Speaker 2 (49:12):
No, no, no.
I mean I've had calls I'venever FaceTimed.
I feel like there's adifference between a phone call
and a FaceTime.

Speaker 1 (49:18):
I mean a FaceTime is way more intimate Maybe it is
because, yeah, I'd be talking togirls out, like outside of
Nashville or different parts ofthe country.

Speaker 2 (49:25):
Okay, that's fair.
So then I feel like that iskind of like a first date.
A FaceTime, I feel like, iscloser to a date than a screen
call.
Maybe I'm crazy, I think ascreen call is good.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
Facetime is that next level?

Speaker 2 (49:38):
Yeah, I think that is a next level.
That to me, like I don't know,when people were meeting people
during the pandemic, they wereliterally just dating through
screens and it still feltintimate enough that some people
are still together.
But it kind of leads me intoanother question of what your
advice or what you think wouldbe applicable to say.

(49:59):
You are on a dating app andthere's like I'm not saying that
there's an exact number oftimes or texts or days, but how
quickly should that move off theapp and into real life, if
you're feeling it?

Speaker 3 (50:12):
Okay.
So how quickly does it move offand how quickly it moves off
are two different things.
Okay, so ideally you match.
You have a conversation for Idon't know two days a day.
It should move off.
If it's going well, it shouldmove off within those two days,
I think.
When it lingers and it becomesa week, that's when things just
kind of fall off.

Speaker 2 (50:32):
Right, and then so we're off the day, we're off the
app.
Now.
Okay, now we're texting.
He does have my phone number.
We've had a screen call orwhatever.
I don't know.
Like, how do I want to ask this?
Hold on, let me think aboutthis.
I don't want to sound like abitch.

Speaker 1 (50:52):
Are we talking about playing games?

Speaker 2 (50:54):
Yeah, yeah, I'm kind of like I guess it's just one of
those things that I'm notinterested in a pen pal and I'm
also not interested in any moreguy friends.
This is me personally.
I'm not speaking for anybodyelse but say that I was, you
were coaching me.
I struggle with like to riverback.

(51:14):
You said, like we open the door, I open the handkerchief.
I'm great at being like makingthe move off the app into real
life.
I'd love to grab a drink, I'dlove to do whatever or and kind
of like initiating that.
What is the appropriate amountof time?
I'm like to judge if this guyis into it, cause I've had
situations where it's like it'sgoing so well on the app and

(51:35):
then we move into real life andit's like I'd love to do this.
And also in my own personalexperience.
I have a very weird workschedule where I do not live in
Nashville on the weekends, whichpresents a whole another
multitude of problems, but it'slike, hey, I'm free on Tuesday.
What is the appropriate amountof time of like, if I'm wasting
my time, what the fuck am Itrying to say?
Like, how long do you wait ifhe's not responding?

(51:56):
Or, all of a sudden, it's notso much in string, it's like I
don't want to be too harsh, Ifyou wanted to you would Exactly,
and so you want to don't evensay exactly, cause?
he's winking at me because he'sbeing a bitch, because I brought
that up before and he saidthat's not true.

Speaker 3 (52:09):
No, because.
But here's the thing you wantto match his energy.
You want to match his energy Ifhe is pulling back.
You pull back Because thatmeans there's less interest.
So if he's not taking theinitiative to ask you out on a
date and to plan it, he's notyour guy.
And remember, you told me youwanted a masculine man.
A masculine man will step it upand get you in person right

(52:31):
away.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
I just struggle with.
I don't even know what Istruggle with, but it's like I
second guess myself from likedon't be too harsh, don't cut
him off.
You know what I mean.
Like because-.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
You're trying to get answers fast.

Speaker 2 (52:46):
No, but like you don't want to waste time, this
guy's not into me, like why am Iwasting my time?
But then I'm like, oh, don't bea bitch, sammy, give him a
chance.
Maybe he was busy at work, Idon't know.
Like trying to almost secondguess myself Do you know what
I'm saying?
Like am I even making sense?

Speaker 1 (53:01):
I know this question is so like you know all your
time wasted, but you don't wantto miss on something where he
might not I don't want to missan opportunity because I was
being too impatient, Because hemight not or he might be
interested, but he's just notgetting back to you fast.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
Yeah, or just like maybe I'm over-.
How fast are we talking?
How fast are we?

Speaker 3 (53:16):
talking Like he's not getting back to you within a
day or two hours.
What?

Speaker 1 (53:23):
No.

Speaker 3 (53:23):
I mean two hours.

Speaker 2 (53:24):
No, Jesus, I don't have my phone with me for two
hours at a time.
I'm saying like, I just think,like the pattern of behavior
like on the app, it was reallyconsistent and then we moved
into real life and it's not asconsistent as I was and he's out
Move on.

Speaker 3 (53:35):
Yes he's out Absolutely If he is interested
in you.
There's been so many of myclose girlfriends that have met
their guys on hinge and what Ihave found is that if it's the
right person, it's gonna beeffortless and he's gonna just
put you on his calendar, tellyou the time and day and you
guys are gonna meet.
It's not.
It's that complicated, itcauses you that much stress and

(53:56):
anxiety.
It's not your guy, period.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
I don't know that he's causing me stress and
anxiety.
I'm causing my stress andanxiety because I'm like, oh,
don't be mean, like, don'toverthink it, and I'm already
overthinking it.

Speaker 3 (54:10):
You just need a guy who's going to just grab the
microphone and leave.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
I want the Kool-Aid man to bust through the shirt.

Speaker 3 (54:16):
Hello, like let's go, and I'm like thank you, I'm
ready, let's do it.
Well, you know what?
You're manifesting it right now.
You're speaking it intoexistence.

Speaker 1 (54:23):
I'm like I was probably going to see you.
Next time I see you you'regonna be taken.
I'm not right now waiting foryou?

Speaker 2 (54:27):
Okay, first of all, that's creepy.
Does he have a knife?
Should I be concerned?
Do you think that it'sappropriate To that?

Speaker 1 (54:33):
point.
What do you find as creepy now?
Where, I think, if there is aguy who's confident and he comes
up to you in the grocery storeand some girl's like, oh my God,
a guy came up to me, or a guycalls my phone instead of
texting me, no, I think it's allin their vibe.

Speaker 3 (54:48):
It depends on if you're attracted to him.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
Yeah, I know exactly.
That's the bottom line foreverything.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
If you're attracted to a guy and he's really good
looking, you're at Whole Foodsand he comes up to you.
You're gonna be like yes,immediate yes right, but if it's
some creepy old guy that you'renot into.
Then it comes off creepy.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
Yeah, exactly that's the bottom line for everything.

Speaker 3 (55:09):
It's the bottom line If you're attracted to them cool
?
If not, then yeah, and itpasses, yeah, like if that guy,
that or no one was attracted tohim.

Speaker 1 (55:17):
I don't know if I feel any better or worse after
this conversation.

Speaker 2 (55:20):
I'm having an emotional inventory right now
and I'm like I don't know.

Speaker 1 (55:24):
Where are the best dating apps?

Speaker 3 (55:25):
The best dating apps is Hengen.
Can I just say you will meetyour person.
I feel that for you, as readthe book, you're gonna go,
you're gonna do all the tips onthe feminine, soft girl era and
you're going to start attractingthe kind of guy that you want
Because, remember, he'sattracted to your feminine side.
So the second you turn that on,you're gonna call me and you're
gonna say I've got all theseguys chasing me now.

(55:46):
Oh, my God, I'm telling you,yeah, I believe it, I believe it
, I believe it, I believe it.

Speaker 1 (55:54):
I'm gonna manifest it .

Speaker 2 (55:55):
I believe it.
What was I supposed to saybefore?

Speaker 1 (55:56):
Yeah, what was I?
I thought the best guy.
Oh yeah, Nashville has the bestguys.
Yeah, Nashville has the bestguys.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
Yes, go team.
Okay, got it, got it.
Nashville has the best guys.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Dating apps huge now, obviously, I feel like I've
been to so many weddings frompeople who met on dating apps.
You said Heng is the best.

Speaker 3 (56:15):
I think Heng is the best.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
I do.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
I think if you're based in LA, hula is really
great.
It's really really great.
A lot of couples have met onHula.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (56:24):
They're starting.
Actually, hula is now in NewYork.
Have you heard of it?
Never has it hit Nashville yet.
No Kind of becoming the newbumble.
So we love Hula, hula.

Speaker 1 (56:34):
Now, what do you recommend to ladies listening
who are on Hinge or Hula andwhat's a message you would send
to a guy?

Speaker 3 (56:44):
First thing I would do is I would look at your
profile and I would say tomyself does this represent me?
If you are an athlete, you area sporty girl.
Do you have that on there?
You don't want to have thesehoey pics to just attract guys.
You want it to really be yourbillboard.
If you're a family, if you likefamily and you like your

(57:05):
sister's kid, you want to havethose pictures on there so that
this billboard represents youand that way to tracks your
ideal guy.
You're really into fitness,right?
Yeah?
So, ideally, if you were onthere and you were single and
you saw someone else who's doingCrossFit or is doing tennis or
something that you'd be like, ohwait, she's also into fitness.
That's something that we bothhave in common.
So if you're trying to attracta guy that has similar values,

(57:28):
make sure that you put that outthere on your dating app.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
Yeah.
So when you say like, don'tjust put a bunch of hoey pics on
there, then you're just gonnaattract the guys that just want
to see that.
Yeah, yeah, just gonna hook up.
That's right yeah, no hoey pics.

Speaker 2 (57:41):
No hoey pics.
I was just actually thinkinglike I don't even know that I
have hoey pics.
Like my camera roll is veryunholy.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
Or like if you have a dog and because I have clients
that either have a dog or do nothave pets because they're
travel schedule and they can'tallow that so if you have a dog
and you're a big dog lover andthat's so important to you, have
your golden retriever as one ofyour five pics, because then
that also vets out the peoplethat are either allergic to dogs
or that hate dogs.
You want that.

Speaker 1 (58:12):
Good point.
So then what would you say?
So you match?
I don't even know how it works,I've never been on Bumble or
Hinge.
You swipe is it just likeTinder, right?
And then you?
Somebody has to initiate theconversation.

Speaker 3 (58:25):
Bumble is women has to initiate Hinge it's, I think
it's whoever what.
Like you laughing?

Speaker 2 (58:33):
Because you just called yourself out without even
knowing it.
You're like well, I've neverbeen on Bumble or Hinge, but is
it like Tinder?

Speaker 1 (58:39):
I've been on this dating app.
I've been on 10 years ago.

Speaker 3 (58:42):
That was the first one.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
That was the first one and the last time I went on
a Tinder date.
We went out to get drinks atBar Louie and she over drank and
started freaking out aboutJesus and ran out of the bar.
So it was.
It was wild.
That is wild yeah but so I'massuming it's the same thing,
though you match, and thensomebody's got to send the

(59:04):
message.
Do you wait or you're just like, nope, I'm going to send a
message.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
No, I think.
I think it's nice when guysmake the first move unless
you're on Bumble, then girlshave to say something.

Speaker 1 (59:14):
What is that old fashioned?
Like you're saying You'rewaiting for the guy.

Speaker 3 (59:19):
I think that on Hinge it's really nice when a guy
makes the first move and hepicks something on the profile.
So if I have a golden retrieverand he sees that and then he
says what's your goldenretrievers name, how old is he?
Or something like that.

Speaker 1 (59:32):
Something normal.

Speaker 3 (59:34):
It's something normal .
So you're just at the profile.
You went all the way down tothe sixth picture and so, but
also on the other side, you knowwhat?
Bumble was created so thatgirls can make the first move.
And for all the single ladies,if you do use Bumble, say
something more than high.
Yeah, because you want to standout.
There's a hundred other girlssending the same message.
So if you see that he lovestacos because he has a picture

(59:56):
with him eating tacos, be likedo you like guacamole?

Speaker 1 (01:00:01):
You know, say something different.
Yeah, I thought you were goingto have a different direction
with that, so you're not.
Look at Gravis attention there.

Speaker 2 (01:00:08):
Yeah, I'll button up and premium proper and we are
not.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:13):
No, I agree with that .
But also, yeah, I think pickuplines are so cheesy, I think it
depends but like she's saying,though, if you can like find
something that relates to them,showing that you looked at their
page, showing interest.
But I'm not going to be likeare you a pickup line girl,
samcat?
I?

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
couldn't answer that question clearly, because it
really depends on the person, itdepends on the vibe, it depends
on the environment, because Ido think that there are pickup
lines that are like just cheesyenough that they're funny with
the correct delivery and comedictiming and situation, and then
there's ones that are like, ohGod, does that work?
So it's just, it depends.

Speaker 1 (01:00:52):
And you know what it works if you're attracted to
them.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
There you go, because if you're that attracted to
them, it works All right, yeah,what about?

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
people who don't look like they're photos.
That's like the other thingthat I don't understand about
online dating.
That's why you face time, all Iknow but I'm just talking about
like on an app.
I struggle with the app becauseI'm a big like.
I mean I know he was sayingyou're an energy girl.
Like I'm an energy girl.
The way someone carries himselfwhen they like walk into the
bar is going to tell me muchmore about them than like Does

(01:01:21):
pineapple belong on pizza, yesor no?
It's like Jesus, someonetranquilize me, like that could
be a funny topic of conversationif they had the right energy.
And I just don't know that thatis conveyed for me online.
I really struggle with that.
I'm more of like a.
I'd like to just meet you inperson, gal.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
We need to get you out there.
You need to go to a steakhousebecause you want to masculine
man.
You need to just sit at the bar, have yourself a steak, talk to
the bartender and just let himcome to you.
But also do the eye trick.
I do, I have, okay.

Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
It's just a matter of time.

Speaker 3 (01:01:59):
You know what?

Speaker 2 (01:02:00):
Maybe your man is going to be patient.
Just got to be patient.
Catch me at a steakhouse.

Speaker 1 (01:02:06):
Do you give your matchmaking clients like a five
people choose from?
Are you like hey, here's thisperson, this person and this
person.

Speaker 3 (01:02:15):
You want to, not, you're just like boom, you guys
are.
Yeah, and it's one at a time.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:20):
Because I think if you have too many cooks in the
kitchen, things get a little bitcomplicated.
The ingredients go in the wrongway, not good.

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
So how does that work then, if you give them one and
then say they chat, they go on adate and they come back and
they're like that was not it.
Are you like okay, is that thenwhen your service ends, or is
it like all right, let's tryanother one you make?

Speaker 3 (01:02:39):
more adjustments, no, no, no.
We make adjustments, so we.
I listened to the feedback andI'm like okay, so you like this
about her, not so much thisabout her.
Okay, great, Let me get back toyou in a week and then we'll
have someone else.
That's better criteria.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
So is it up to the gentleman then to tell the girl
that I'm not really feeling it,or do you do that it?

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
depends.
Sometimes I have to be the badnews bear.

Speaker 2 (01:03:02):
What.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
They can't even tell them themselves.
Most of them do.
But I always give them theoption.
I'm like look, you have abroker.
It's like a real estate agent.
You know, if the buyer's notinterested, then your real
estate agent goes to the otherone.
The seller's agent says, well,she's just not quite interested,
she wanted the marble top.
So it just depends.
You know, it's kind of nice tohave a broker, wow.

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
No, wow, okay, I give you so much props.
No, that's incredible that youdo that, but fuck those guys
respectfully.
You can't even tell me thatyou're not into me.

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
Come on, listen.
Most of them I would say 90% ofmy clients absolutely will take
the initiative and just say,hey, I see this moving more in a
friend direction.
Okay, perfect, okay, great.
There is the one off that Ihave to do it.
Sure, and it is what it is.
It's business, baby, it's bigmoney that is great you are a
woman.

Speaker 2 (01:03:49):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
But those guys are great.

Speaker 1 (01:03:52):
What are you doing in Nashville?
Are you matchmaking right now?

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
I am not matchmaking right now I am on a book press,
that's right.
Trying to get this book to getin the right hand so that we can
help as many single females inNashville as possible.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
How long did it take you to write this book?

Speaker 3 (01:04:08):
Woo.
So initially I wrote the wholething in 10 days and then I went
back and said no, this isn'tgood enough for my single girls.
I went back and I added a tonto it and now I'm finally super
happy with it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (01:04:25):
So maybe a total of three months.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
That's pretty quick.

Speaker 3 (01:04:28):
It's pretty quick, but Deepak Chopra wrote a book
in 24 hours.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
Yeah, I mean she wrote it in 24 hours or in the
three months, but she's beencollecting data as being a woman
herself and then also in theindustry for 10 years, so it
really took her 10 years towrite it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:44):
So true.
So I ended up with this bookfive years ago because I didn't
have enough data, and so muchhas changed.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
Did you love the process of it.
Would you want to write anotherone?

Speaker 3 (01:04:55):
I'm writing five more , five more, five.
Yes, you know what I realizedin this process?
That I am such a creative and Ididn't know, and I really have
a way of expressing myselfthrough writing, and you'll love
the book because you'll hear myvoice in it, and I think that
there's a lot of different.
There's the relationship bookfor the couples that are

(01:05:15):
struggling, there's also for thegays, there's also for the
single guys and for the singlegirls, so I think there needs to
be a lot of books.

Speaker 1 (01:05:23):
Yeah, I was going to ask you if you're going to do
one for the guys.

Speaker 3 (01:05:25):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
I will have a book for the guys.
By the way, that hasn't comeout yet, so yeah, yeah, yeah,
you heard it here first.
Heard it here first.
I love that.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
So this tour, then you just go do some press.

Speaker 3 (01:05:40):
We're doing New York LA, obviously here in Nashville,
atlanta and Miami.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Okay, that's exciting .

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
It's so exciting.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
That's exciting, samcats going to get a copy.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
I will.
I'm a big reader as well, so Iwill add it to my to be read
list and, who knows, maybe Iwill be in one of your books as
a success story after you cameon this podcast.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:06:05):
We're going to try, but until then, thank you for
joining us and everybody, checkout her new book how To Attract.

Speaker 3 (01:06:12):
The.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
Right Guy, not the wrong guy On Valentine's Day
coming up soon, that's crazythis year's flying.
But thank you so much, talia.
We appreciate it and we'll keepyou posted with Samcat.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
Yes, thank you for coming in and thanks for all the
advice and congratulations.

Speaker 1 (01:06:26):
Thanks for therapy everything.

Speaker 2 (01:06:28):
It wasn't therapy booth, it was a conversation.

Speaker 1 (01:06:31):
Team on three Peace.

Speaker 2 (01:06:32):
Well, thank you for having me.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
Thank you, it's fun to be like you.
You're my story you.