November 1, 2023 • 50 mins
Listen at www.inthedollworld.com Karen Oyekanmi, the founder of the American Black Beauty Doll Association, opens up the conversation as she shares the inspiration behind her quest to fill the market gap for beautiful black dolls and to provide positive representation for children of color - a mission that still holds significant relevance almost 40 years later, as they celebrate their upcoming annual Festival of Black Doll Show and Sale, Nov 4th 2023.
As we chat with this panel of remarkable women - Karen Oyekanmi, Kynisha Daisy Decre, Cheryl Buckley, Lillian Black, Adwoa Cooper, and Stacelina Monique - we uncover the crucial role of dolls in reflecting and celebrating the diverse world we live in. Our panel of esteemed guests, wear many hats - they are doll makers, authors, interior designers, balloon artists, crocheters, and Barbie repainters.
We navigate the rich and multifaceted world of doll making, a journey that transcends the creation of children's playthings to become a profound medium of art and cultural expression and as the conversation evolves, we also get the perspective of each guest on the importance about their decision to join the American Black Beauty Doll Association, as well as create and attend the Festival of Black Dolls Show and Sale, an event that has always been about educating and representation, with many of the years of the Festival showcasing themes from Egypt to Black Marriage.
So, join us for this enlightening conversation and discover the art, the expression, and the cultural significance behind the world of doll making and the importance of being a member of the American Black Beauty Doll Association.
To see more about the women who are featured today, as well as vendors at the upcoming Festival of Black Dolls Show and Sale: ABBDA 2023 Vendors
@KarenOyekanmi
Kissing Kousins Dolls
Www.weloveblackdolls.com
Stacy
@Stacelinamonique
https://www.etsy.com/shop/StacelinaMonique
Lillian Black
Lillian’s Dolls & Things
Www.weloveblackdolls.com
Adwoa Cooper
@adwoadesign
www.AdwoaDesign.com
https://www.etsy.com/shop/AdwoaDesign
Kynisha Ducre
@Daisytheclown
www.clowninaround.net
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello everybody and welcome to In the Dawn Wall.
I'm your host, jojette Tell,and, as always, I'm excited to
have you join me for a newepisode of the show.
I'm even more excited because,as you can see, I have six
beautiful women here on the showtoday, and so, you know, be
patient with me, people, bepatient with me.
Okay, we have members andfounding members and legacy
(00:25):
members of the American BlackBeauty Doll Association, also
known as the American BlackBeauty Doll Artist, and they are
hosting a beautiful festivalthat they do every year, called
the Festival of Black Dolls Showand Sale on November 4th, and
I'm so excited to be able totalk to them about their journey
, why they started thefoundation, why people are
(00:48):
members of the foundation, andalso a little bit about each one
of their journeys into dollmaking, a doll collecting and
just the doll in our communityin general.
So again, welcome everybody toIn the Dawn World.
I'm gonna start with some smallintroductions from everybody.
So first we have Karen Oyakami.
(01:08):
She is the founder of AmericanBlack Doll Beauty Association.
She is also the CEO of KissingCousins Doll and she is also a
commercial artist, illustrator,which she received her degree in
1981.
And her and her sister havestudied doll making and doll
sculpting.
(01:28):
In 1983, they started a companyknown as K&K and she has sold
her dolls in the United Statesand abroad and specializes in
one of her kind dolls.
We also have Kanisha DaisyDecree.
She is a member of the AmericanBlack Beauty Doll Association
and also known on social mediaas Daisy the Clown.
(01:49):
Not only is she an amazingclown, she is also an author,
interior designer and aphenomenal balloon artist, and
she has traveled around theworld sharing her amazing Daisy
the Clown with so many childrenin other countries.
Then we have Cheryl Buckley.
He was also a founder of theABBDA.
She is also the secretary andthe owner of Buck's Doll House.
(02:12):
Cheryl is not only a mother,but she's a grandmother and she
started her doll making career,creating dolls for her children.
She attended a Black Doll Showand decided she wanted to try
her hand at porcelain dollmaking and, needless to say,
she's become phenomenal at itbecause she is now the
association's go-to person forall porcelain techniques.
That is amazing.
(02:33):
That's pretty cool.
I love that.
Then we have Lillian Black, whois a legacy member.
She is also the owner ofLillian's Dolls and Things and I
did hear that she justcelebrated her 90th birthday, so
that's pretty amazing.
I'm so excited.
That's so beautiful.
She started her doll makingjourney in 1995 as a
(02:55):
stress-reducing hobby.
She attended classes andquickly became addicted, which
we know.
When you create the house, youmake dolls, you buy dolls, you
just become addicted.
That's just how it goes.
She traveled to England toattend the national events and
also she just has found theexperience of doll making to be
a great stress reliever.
(03:15):
Then we have Adwa Cooper.
She is also a member and she isalso known on social media as
Adwa Designs.
She's an award-winning crochetdoll artist and she makes
crochet dolls with personality.
Her passion inspired her toopen her own Etsy store and a
website where she shares herunique crochet creations.
She really competes annually atthe California State Fair and
(03:38):
she came in first place and wasawarded Blue Ribbon for her work
.
I'm so excited.
That is beautiful, beautifulwork.
You ladies are amazing.
And last but definitely notleast, we have Stacey.
She is not only a member ofAmerican Black Beauty Doll
Association, she also is thevice president and also known
through social media as Staceyand Lena Monique Stacey and her
(04:01):
daughter Alicia.
They create relatable culturalawareness through Barbie dolls.
She started at a very early ageby experimenting with paper
dolls and moved up to Barbierepaints, which she does
amazingly well re-routes andrestyling.
She turns them into modern dayfashions.
Thank you so much, ladies, forbeing on In the Doll World.
I'm so excited to have all ofyou here.
(04:23):
So I'm going to ask Karen thefirst question.
What I'd like to know from you,karen, this is an amazing
association.
You've had it for many, manyyears, so I really wanted you to
share a little bit about yourinspiration behind founding the
American Black Beauty DollAssociation and how has it
evolved over the years.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Well, I got interested in starting this
organization because of the lackof black dolls on the market
and I had my daughter in 1982and in 1983, I couldn't find
dolls that represented her and Iwas teaching doll making at the
(05:07):
Allen Temple Arms in Oakland,california.
And that's how I met CherylBuckley and Grace Broda some
other of our founding members,in Florence, maine, and we
decided let's do it ourselves,let's start making beautiful
black dolls to represent ourchildren and children of color
(05:29):
and to lift their self-esteemand see themselves reflected
positively in dolls.
And that's how we got startedmaking dolls for children to
play with and also as teachingtools.
And that was the inspiration ofstarting American Black Beauty
Doll Association in 1984.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
1984.
Wow, that's been a long time.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yes, that's been running.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
It really has been the other thing.
One really quick question thenI'm going to bounce over to
Kanisha because I know she isdoing her Daisy Declown thing
and I don't want to mess withthat.
But one thing I did want to askyou, karen, was that in 1984,
it's so needed then and youstill see how much is needed now
.
Are you surprised at how muchis still needed?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yes, I am, and it just shows that the work
probably will never be done.
We need to keep going with thisand that's why I'm so excited
to have Ottawa and Stacy andKanisha and the young fresh
blood artists to keep this going, because we've been at this the
(06:41):
founders a long time and thework is still so much needed.
There's so many young peoplethat still don't know who they
are and don't see themselvesreflected, are they get lost in
their phone.
We want to pull them back tocreate something and also be
creative through our work andinvolve young people in it with
(07:04):
workshops and these festivals,and we want to see it keep going
.
We've been doing this foralmost 40 years and we're not
done.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
We're not done.
Definitely, that's definitelytrue.
We are definitely not done.
Certainly a test of that.
So, kanisha, how are you today?
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I am absolutely amazing.
Oh, that's great.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I see that you are hard at work there, so I wanted
to ask you a question.
Well, first I want to justshare a little bit about
yourself how you got started indoing and becoming a clown,
because you are so versatile,with so many different amazing
work, that you have not just anauthor, you are also interior
designer.
So how did clowns becomesomething that you thought was
(07:49):
really important to showcase,and how does that work actually
intersect with the AmericanBlack Beauty Doll Association?
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Absolutely so.
I was born and raised in NewOrleans and I had a theater
class.
He taught us how to be clowns.
So from there I was performingfor kids' tent.
Ok, of course there's aninspection going on now.
I was performing at the kids'tent of the Jazz Inheritance
Festival, Fast forward.
I have a psychology degree andan interior design degree, but I
(08:21):
always volunteered and from amental health standpoint I know
kids wanted to hug.
They had teddy bears, they haddolls, they would talk to the
dolls, they would have imaginaryfriends.
So I love dolls, so kids canactually let the dolls copy them
like what they're wearing.
So I particularly like 18 inchdolls so they can match their
(08:42):
dolls or they can then feel likethey're important to the dolls.
Somebody cares about them and Iknow my mom told me stories of
running around to four stores totry and find a cabbage patch.
So then when that grew up, toother dolls.
But it really is the art of playwith you.
So in a psychology setting Ican use a doll to explain how
(09:03):
are you feeling or if there wassomething inappropriate that
happened, they can point towhere it happened.
So it was kind of giving avoice to the voice list from a
psychological standpoint.
And then I got so inspired withclothing and hair to keep up,
because kids wanted to see wedidn't have blonde hair, we have
short, curly country hair.
So, with the customizationsthat some of the other team
(09:25):
members do, I just wanted tohave something unique on and
then follow the journey.
You don't have to fit into amold that you see, you can
create it yourself, Almost likethe cliche that says don't wait
to be invited to the table,build your own table or start
gathering your clothes, so it'salmost like that with dolls.
So if I didn't see it, okay, howcan I dye her skin, or how can.
(09:46):
I make her hair or put littlecurly rainbows in it, because
that's something I like, so youdon't have to fit inside the box
.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Do you introduce dolls in your clown sketches?
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Yes, when I am doing more hospital visits, because I
can't bring balloons because oflatex.
But in a hospital setting or apsychological setting, yes.
But I have a friend like alittle me.
I can do a magic trick and thedoll is dressed just like me and
of course I disappear andwhat's left is the doll, dressed
just like me, so of course theythink I disappeared.
(10:18):
So I do use dolls in my clownshows from time to time and it's
easy to pack.
So I'm grateful.
As a clown.
I've been at six continents inmore than 35 countries clowning
and most recently we've patchedatoms about six weeks ago.
But dolls are absolutely withme wherever I go.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
That's very cool, that's great.
I love it.
I love that.
So you've been around the worlddoing this and you do it at the
Festival of Black Dolls show aswell.
Do you see a difference of howthe children respond to you when
you're at the Festival of BlackDolls as opposed to around the
world, or do they react the sameway?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
It's a permission to have fun.
So many kids are used to goingto the store and their parents
saying don't touch that, don'ttouch that With me.
They're kind of giving them ahigh five like, ooh, look, how
pretty her hair is, it's justlike.
So it gives them a permissionthat they don't have to be on
guard, they don't have to sit ontheir hand.
But then they can say I'llnotice different details in them
, like they, my bow tie, are thecolor of their hair.
(11:17):
So they can start saying waysthat they are unique, so they
can start pulling that outinside of them.
So at the Dolls show they'relike oh wait, there's a doll,
that's a clown.
Or wait, there's a girl, that'sa clown.
Wait, there's a black girl,that's a clown.
You have that.
So you don't have to look likeRonald or anyone else.
You can be your own creativeself.
(11:39):
And that's what the dollsreflect in all of the different
types from in some of the olderladies.
It's not just kids.
They didn't have these dolls,like Miss Karen was saying, when
they were growing up.
They had Kenya and they had oneother one I can't think of her
name.
So now to see this evolution ofwhat they wish they had.
They're buying for grandkidsKids they don't even grandkids
(12:00):
that don't even have yetneighbors to make sure it's all
inclusive and diverse, for evensome of their neighbors who are
not African-American, they'restill introducing so kids can
get used to.
Let me have a brown skin dolltoo, so it's for everybody and
I'm grateful for being a part ofthe group.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I was just going to ask you too, like what drew you
into the group?
Right, you know what drew youbecoming part of, you know,
becoming a member of theAmerican Blank Beauty Doll
Association.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
It's the beauty, like African-American in tones are
so unique from one side to theother, like I'm proud to see,
and you know, coffee with nocream.
You know, in the dolls, like,no, like your complexion is
absolutely beautiful.
Mine is too.
So when you get all of thesedifferent conflections, our art
(12:49):
forms, just like the crochet,the porcelain, the Barbie, the
articulated, so all of thosedifferent details, it just
attracted me, like differentways we can communicate beauty,
whether it's a small doll, bigdoll, baby doll, so little girls
can see the beauty inthemselves.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Okay, great.
Well, thank you so much.
I know you are doubted.
You're doing your work andsharing your beautiful days in
the clown with so many peoplearound.
I want to thank you so much forbeing here in the doll world
with us here to share why it'simportant for people to have
black dolls and have dollsrepresented and the work that
you do out there.
So thank you so much.
Can you just quickly telleverybody where they could find
(13:28):
you at?
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Sure, I'm Daisy the Clown on Instagram and YouTube,
but if you go to Instagramthere's a link treat and it'll
show you everywhere.
You can probably so if youstart at Instagram and Daisy the
Clown, but who knows, I mightbe in a city near you.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
And you'll be at the Festival of Black Dolls, so
we're excited about it.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Absolutely, you won't miss me.
I'll say that you won't miss me.
Very good thank you so much,Disha.
Thank you, honored.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Thank you for joining us.
I appreciate it.
Karen, I want to talk to youbecause I know you were talking
about your inspiration andfinding that, but as a person
who creates dolls and make dollsculptures, I think for me it's
like when I'm doing the show.
I realized that there's so manypeople who do dolls.
(14:15):
But one of the things that Ifind that lacks in the doll
community is black people doingvinyl dolls.
Now, I know it's very expensiveand very pricey to do.
What made you decide to do thetypes of dolls that you do,
especially one of a kind?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Well, I really love.
Well, my first lesson was doingchildren dolls also children
and I love working fromphotographs and I did start off
with porcelain in 1980, but I'vegraduated on to felt press felt
(14:52):
, which is a technique thatstarted in the 1920s and 30s
with the Lindsay, and I lovedoing that because I can still
sculpt and then I just press thefelt over and it's like
painting on a canvas and justbeing able to be specific and
(15:13):
original and really use thatface as a canvas to capture the
essence of the person.
And I'm doing, I enjoy that alot.
I love vinyl dolls but I havenever been able to get into that
area.
But I love doing felt andporcelain.
(15:33):
That's my area expertise.
That's your area expertise okay, very cool.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
How do you go about finding the people who want to
be part of the American BlackBeauty Doll Association?
Do you look for people and thensay I would like to invite you
to be members, or do theygenerally find you?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
They generally find us, and then we get a lot of
people that come to the show andexpress the interest, and now
that we're more out there,especially being on Instagram
and Facebook, we get moreinquiries and so we have a
interview process and we're ableto really see where their
(16:13):
interests lie and if ourorganization would be the fit
that they're looking for.
So that's how we mainly theycome to us.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
I'm not excited about that.
Okay, very nice, very nice.
I didn't know, it was aninterview process.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
I think that's pretty neat.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, you want to make sure that the people that
you are bringing on into yourorganization and association
make the dolls that you want tosee portrayed.
I think that's really importanttoo is to be able to keep that
not just that beauty, but theculture of African American
dolls alive.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yes, and then they understand what we're about and
that we inspire them.
They can learn more about whothey are as African Americans
through art, from our experience, and then they also bring a lot
to the table.
So we're excited when we getnew members that really can
excel in the organization, likewhat we have now.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yay, that's what you have, beautiful Cheryl.
Hi, cheryl, how are you?
I'm good, I'm good, so I knowthat you're a founder as well
and you're also the secretary,but you're starting creating
dolls for your children.
How did it evolve into becomingmore than creating dolls just
for your children and for otherchildren as well?
Speaker 7 (17:33):
I think it was mainly that.
Well, my kids always had thedolls that I created for them,
and they were mainly cloth dolls, and other children did like to
play with them.
I gave quite a few away asbirthday gifts, but the parents
wanted to save it instead ofletting the child play with it,
(17:57):
and that I didn't like.
But, and I found that my boyswere just as interested in
playing with those dolls.
They would change their clothes, of course, because they wore
clothes on their dolls, and assoon as the girls got a new doll
, they would take out their oldone and do what they wanted to
(18:20):
do with them.
But as I came up, it just wasthe white dolls with black
coloring on their faces, and soin my situation, which I mostly
was doing, porcelain dolls.
(18:41):
I would look for the molds thatI could translate them into
black dolls.
And I come to find out thatmost of the original antique
dolls, their models, wereactually mixed children that
(19:02):
were mixed with African inEuropean, because they were
beautiful, wow, and they wouldmake their dolls from their
molds, from those children, andso it wasn't too hard to find
molds, especially in the antiquedesign that also had our
(19:22):
African features.
But the only thing about theporcelain the children have to
be very careful with that.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yes.
Those are not play dolls right.
No they're not.
No, they're definitely not playdolls.
How did you become a foundingmember?
What was that journey?
Speaker 7 (19:42):
I went to a doll show and that was before I actually
got into the porcelain and Karenwas there, and so she invited
me to Allen Temple, becausewhere I was taking lessons it
was from a white lady and myfirst actual doll I made was the
(20:06):
white doll.
And Karen introduced me intothe black slip that she was
using at the time, and so Igraduated from that to mix in my
own slip, because they only hadone color black slip, and I got
to mix in my own.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And so yeah, well, I hope, because let me ask you
this skirt, because noteverybody may know what that
means.
What is a slip?
Exactly what is that?
Speaker 7 (20:34):
The liquid form of the porcelain.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Okay, all right.
Yes, did you find challenges?
Speaker 7 (20:40):
working with porcelain.
The challenges I had workingwith porcelain is that you had
to pay at the time for someoneelse to pour the mold for you,
so that you bought it in agreenware state, and then you
also needed a kiln to do yourfire, and so that inspired me to
(21:02):
get my own molds and my ownkiln.
So I have quite a big clutch inthe molds now and some of them
are getting a little bit tooheavy for me now, but I still
have them.
But those were the mainchallenges getting the paints,
(21:23):
the paints to blend in with thecoloring that you had on the
doll.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I heard that coloring has always been a challenge.
That's been one of thechallenges when people make
porcelain dolls or even siliconedolls or anything like that.
It's always the coloring thatyou know.
That's right.
Does the coloring course?
More money, I had heard, forsome ways, I think, for vinyl
models, I do believe.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
It was just getting the right color and you always
mixed your colorings so youcould get the regular coloring,
but it's the way you mix them.
And then they started mixingthem.
They started making them in thedifferent brown tones and I
think that's what encouragedthem to make them in the
(22:08):
different brown tones.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Okay, well, thank you so much.
We will come back to you Iappreciate you sharing your
joining with us.
Miss Lillian, how are you?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
I'm good, thank you for asking.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Oh, I'm good too.
And happy belated birthday.
That's beautiful.
Thank you, you're so welcome.
So I know you're a legacymember of the American Black
Beauty Doll Association.
What does a legacy member mean?
What does it mean to you beinga legacy member?
Speaker 3 (22:37):
For me it's just a pleasure to be working with
these ladies who are muchyounger than I am, but I'm still
, you know, interested in doingdolls.
That's my passion At my age.
You can imagine and I have adaughter and two sons that they
didn't have any dolls of color.
When I wanted my daughter tohave a doll, her grandmother
(23:04):
gave her a doll, one of thesewalking dolls, and she was white
and it frightened Tracy, so shekept it in the closet.
She never brought it out toplay.
She never brought it out.
Oh, wow, yeah, correct, and so Ithought that really is very
interesting.
It frightened her for her tosee a doll half her size and she
(23:27):
doesn't want to play with her,and that, you know, was
surprising to me.
But yet it wasn't, because allof her friends were of mixed.
We lived in an area where therewas, you know, all people of
color, and so she was used tobeing around all people of color
, yet she still didn't want thisdoll to be on her bed.
(23:49):
It stayed in her closet.
But other than that, I justlike being doing dolls.
You like doing dolls, right?
And now that I'm getting olderand older and older, I'm wanting
to do dolls that Karen does thesoft dolls.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Right, right, and what inspired you to become a
member of the American BlackBeauty Doll Association
no-transcript.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
I had, first of all, I'm a retired public health
nurse.
Well, a nurse period and I wason my job and I passed this
little doll cottage and it hadall these dolls in the window
and I said, oh, and there waseven a doll of color in the
window and I said, oh, I mustcheck that out when I come back
(24:39):
from my interview with this withthis whole nurse situation.
And indeed I did.
And it was white-owned.
And the woman said, oh, no, youcan join a class when we're
getting ready to have our newclass on this coming weekend.
Well, that just sat with me andI said, but what about dolls of
(25:00):
color?
I don't see that many.
And she said, listen, they'reall white and what we do is just
add color to it.
Right?
And I said, ok, well, that'llwork.
And that's how I got starteddoing porcelain dolls, because I
thought, oh, now I could get adoll for my daughter that really
looks like her color-wise.
(25:22):
And so that was my beginning indoing porcelain dolls, and I
really like the expressions.
Most of my dolls are ofchildren, some are adults, boys
and girls, all ages, frominfants to models.
So I really enjoy that.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, and you said it was a stress reliever for you.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
But you're getting ready to sand the doll when it
comes out of the kiln.
Just using your own hands orusing stocking, sanding the
seams down is just so relaxing,just so relaxing yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Thank you so much for sharing your journey.
I appreciate that and we aregoing to talk to Ms Adwa.
How are you today?
I'm well.
Can you hear me?
Yes, I can hear you,wonderfully.
Thank you so much.
I know you have amazing crochetdolls.
Well, you're an award-winningcrochet doll artist, so I know
that they're amazing.
They are beautiful.
I really have seen your work onmany, many occasions, so why
(26:27):
don't you just share a littlebit more about your journey and
how you started crocheting dolls?
And also, I just want to knowhow do you feel that crochet
dolls kind of fits in with beinga member of the American Black
Beauty Doll Association?
Speaker 5 (26:42):
Well, starting with that, I like the fact that it
kind of doesn't fit in, becauseone thing that was kind of
discouraging about doing this asa business was the fact that
there were in my circle so manycrochet doll artists and I
thought where am I going to fitin?
So it's just inspiring to seeso many different mediums used,
(27:07):
and for me to be the only onethat does it the way I do it
it's like yay, so that was a joy.
With that said, though, thishas been, this journey has just
been amazing.
Like Miss Lilly, and I'm anurse as well, and I was working
one day and being nosy on alunch break and there was a
(27:31):
group of therapists and justhaving their lunch, but they
were all doing different formsof needle craft and I thought,
you know?
And I went in and I noticed twoladies knitting and crocheting
and I sat with them.
They showed me the fundamentalsand then it just took off from
(27:51):
there.
But, like most beginningstitchers, I made hats and
scarves for everybody and theygot sick of it and they said
please, do something else,please.
You know, we have enough.
And that's how I got into dollmaking.
I saw a doll.
I think it was made of questlove the drummer on the Jimmy
(28:12):
Kimmel show.
I liked it, but I kind ofthought, well, who made this?
And it sent me down this rabbithole and I realized the artist
was not African American, shewasn't a woman of color Nothing
against that but for my eyes,looking at this doll, I felt it
was representative of his trueappearance.
(28:34):
And then that sent me downanother rabbit hole, looking at
different textures of yarn tomatch his actual hair texture,
his true skin tone andundertones.
You know we have a lot more tous than just brown, you know.
So that's what got me into dollmaking.
I'm self taught, I read a lotof books, I use the University
(28:58):
of YouTube and it just evolved.
And where I'm at now, and Ilove it and I can't wait to
retire and do this full timebecause work gets in my way, I
have dolls to make, I have tripsto take.
You know, we have events to do.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
So, yeah, it's a blessing.
Work does get in your way whenyou are actually creative and
creative.
It really does.
So why did you feel it wasimportant for you to become a
member of the American BlackBeauty Doll Association?
Why was that something that youthink you know, something that
you felt that you needed to do?
Speaker 5 (29:35):
It was kind of meant to happen and it was kind of
what's that word?
Like serendipity happened andthat's how I got here.
I was doing a doll.
Well, it was a craft fair inJack London Square and I loved
doing that show, just becausethe vibe you know, you're in
Oakland, it's beautiful.
(29:56):
And I remember a patron came upto my table and she said why
aren't you with the Black DollAssociation?
And I'm like, what Black DollAssociation?
So she couldn't give me anyinformation.
I figured, oh, I'll look it up.
I tried and I tried and I tried.
I didn't find anything.
And you know, life died in theway, right.
And then, stacy, I think youeither sent me a, you put a
(30:22):
comment or you sent me a messageon Instagram and I thought this
is what I've been looking for.
She just said, hey, we're doinga show, would you be interested
?
And I'm like, of course.
So I did the show.
And then I found out about theapplication process and I
applied and I interviewed and Imade the pet and I was so happy
(30:45):
and that's just kind of how ithappened.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
That's so cool.
So have you been showcasingyour dolls at the Festival of
Black Dolls, and how long haveyou been doing that Since?
You became a member.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
This will be my second show.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
So last year was my first one.
Okay, beautiful, I love that.
Thank you so much for sharingthat, ms Stacy.
Speaker 6 (31:05):
Yes, hi Georgia.
How are you today?
I'm doing good.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I'm doing good.
I'm excited to talk with you aswell.
I'm excited to talk to all ofyou because I, you know we have
wow.
Just having all you women hereto me is so.
It's just so powerful becausethere's so many different types
of dolls that you create.
Not only that, you know, youcreate an association.
I think that is so important tobe part of.
(31:30):
I mean, it's just if you're ablack doll artist, it's just
important to be a part of whatyou do.
You know, because still neededand you know we had that
conversation previously the factthat it's just a continuation
of the things that are stillneeded in this world.
Having black dolls representwho we are.
Stacy, you do that well.
You repaint, you do redesigns.
(31:55):
They're amazing.
So how did that did that startfor you?
I know you were playing withdolls at a young age, but how
did you decide or think aboutredesigning and telling a new
story with, you know, with olderdolls, with dolls that never
really represented us?
Speaker 6 (32:14):
To start off, my niece was born.
She was the first daughter inthe family, the first girl in
the family, so my sister had herand I wanted her to be that
Barbie for me.
So I created a whole line ofBarbie dolls for her, in every
color dress you could imagine,but the big tool dresses and
(32:35):
everything.
So she had a shelf and wedisplayed all the dolls that I
made for her.
So 30 years later now she's 30,and I've been in this doll
world seen for over 10 years now.
It evolved and now I see, youknow, we are glamorous, we're
beautiful, and I would like toshowcase that in my doll making.
(32:59):
As far as the Barbies areconcerned, the Barbie is
fabulous, so let's make theAfrican-American Barbies
fabulous, you know, let's makeher just as gorgeous as the
other dolls you see online.
So that's where I started withthat mission as far as making
the dolls glamorous.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Right.
I love how you said that,though you know, let's make the
Black Barbie dolls more, just asglamorous.
And the fact that you actuallydo that and you showcase the
Black Barbies in all their glory, you know, in all the things
that we can do as people, Ithink that's great.
The way you restyle them isjust amazing.
So I know you.
I do know you work with yourdaughter.
So how do you combine skillstogether, right?
(33:39):
And your perspective aboutdolls, because she's younger
than you, right?
How does that contribute towhat you create together?
Speaker 6 (33:48):
Well, for one, she has that youthful idea and
thoughts that she always bringto me.
Mom, that's too old, Mom, we'redoing this.
Mom, the songs are outdated.
You need to put more trendysongs on your social media.
So she gives me a lot of goodadvice.
And also, as far as designing,I would like to show you one of
(34:09):
my dolls here.
She is going to be MissBrooklyn at the Doll Show.
Nice, she's gorgeous.
Yes, so she's going to be oneof my dolls.
And if you notice her hair, mydaughter was telling me mom,
make sure she has really, reallytight coils, Make sure her hair
is really tight and curly.
(34:30):
So, of course, she was a dollthat came with straight hair and
I really fixed her up.
And she's Miss Oakland for theDoll Show.
So I'm working on different.
And then I went back to myoriginal big dress that my niece
all the big dresses that myniece would have and I went back
to my roots so I created acouple of dolls just like that
(34:53):
and let me show you one more.
This is the Barbie Now.
She's Miss Fabulous Barbie, oh,pretty Handbags, and she has
the big tool dress Again, Ithink you see half.
So I kind of went back to theroots.
I said, okay, let me go back tothe beginning and let's get
(35:13):
these big dresses out.
And the movie came out.
So Barbie is glamorous.
So of course I have to makesome big, beautiful, glamorous
dolls, and plus pink, okay,everything is extravagant, and
pink, yeah, extravagant.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yes, definitely, that's definitely.
I know you're the vicepresident of the American Blank
Beauty Doll Association.
What made you want to join thisassociation?
Speaker 6 (35:38):
Been doing their shows for a long time and when
you have opinions you just can'tbring up an opinion oh, you
guys should do this or you guysshould do that.
If you want to make adifference, you have to join the
group to make a difference andthen voice your opinion and give
them your reasons.
Why is certain things that youthink should change a little bit
(35:59):
?
So I jumped on board and I'vebeen a member now for what?
Close to eight years, and Ijust love the ladies.
I love how we bounce off ofeach other's ideas, how I
learned from them.
They have just really taught mea lot.
And so, moving forward as faras being vice president, I
really enjoy that because myconnection in the doll world
(36:23):
allows me to reach out, to likeyou and reach out to the people
that maybe they don't know aboutand bring it to the doll group
and we can just really grow andlearn and just get to know
different artists.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
When you guys are so beautiful, I'm getting emotional
.
Okay, hold on.
Wow, this has never happened tome before.
Okay.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
You're gonna make me cry.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Oh, we appreciate you .
This is amazing and you'reamazing.
Thank you for having us likethis.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
You're welcome.
Wow, that's okay.
I'm getting emotional because Ijust see the talent and the
passion and the beauty of whatyou guys do, not just as an
association but individually too, and the love that you have for
creating dolls that representdifferent facets of who we are,
(37:24):
in different genres anddifferent, you know, from
porcelain to crochet, torepainting, redesigning and
that's one of the things that Ireally wanted to be able to do
with this show was be able tobring people on and let people
know that they all have a spacein the community and that they
all, you know, the spaces thatthey create, you know, gives
them a voice, and I think youguys do that so well and just
(37:49):
phenomenally, you know.
I just wanna thank you for allyour work that you've been doing
out there to share howimportant it is for black dolls
to be seen and represented andto be there in a space.
So I'm gonna ask each one ofyour questions and what I wanna
know is how do you believe thatrepresentation of black dolls
(38:10):
impacts self-esteem and culturalidentity of young children,
especially from those in blackcommunities?
Speaker 6 (38:18):
I wanna start off first with that.
It's real important that blacklittle girls see themselves, not
just a black child that doesn'tcomb their hair or whatever the
stereotypes may be.
They need to see that even ifwe don't comb our hair, we're
still beautiful.
Our hair is in the texture thatwe don't have to comb it every
(38:41):
day.
It's just.
That's our beauty behind us.
So it's important for childrento be able to afford our dolls
for one.
Like at our doll show, we allowthe prices to be affordable for
the children who want thesebeautiful dolls that represent
them.
Mom, this doll is so beautifulbut you know we can't afford her
(39:01):
.
No, yes, you can, you couldafford her.
She's marketed a price at ourfestival that everybody will be
able to afford a beautiful dollthat represents them, and it is
important for them to see thatand feel just as beautiful as
the doll that they have.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
True, thank you, anybody else who wanted to pose
that question to everybody?
Speaker 5 (39:20):
I'd like to add that the whole representation
mattering it wasn't worded thatway to me as a child, but that
was just ingrained in me.
My father did not allow me tohave any dolls that did not look
like me.
He and my mom used to kind ofget into it about that, because
I'd get a lot of gifts and I'dsee a lot of dolls disappear
(39:43):
that didn't look like me and Ilearned I would have to wait
because in the early 80s if youcould find one, it was a process
.
You had to order it and you hadto wait.
And as a child I thought my dadwas so mean.
I was like daddy, why are youso mean?
Why don't you want me to havedolls?
But I didn't realize what hewas teaching me.
That has been with methroughout life.
(40:06):
When I was the only black nursein the room, I still had my own
self-worth.
When I couldn't style my hairlike some of the instructors
would tell me to, it didn't makeme feel bad, it was very
unapologetic.
I said this is what you'regonna get.
And I truly believe if myparents didn't instill that in
me, I wouldn't have been strongenough to do that and I would
(40:29):
have fell into feeling less than.
So it's so important.
I was recently asked why I evenbother competing at the fair
Because, like I believe Stacymentioned, you make your own
seat at the table when no oneinvites you to it.
You make your own and just tobe at these events and to see
(40:53):
the reactions to the dolls,they're so needed, it's so
needed and the kids need to seethat.
And it's priceless hearing thechildren say that doll looks
like me.
It's just priceless and soneeded.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
That's so true, and adults need it too.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
Trust me, don't think we don't need it, we do need it
.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Some of us, like you said, have different versions of
they're not feeling wantedbecause they weren't represented
.
Yes, and a lot of people don't.
Sometimes people can say, well,I don't see that represented,
I'm gonna go and make that, butnot everybody's like that, and
so a lot of times they don't seeit represented and it really
changes how they see themselvesin life.
And so, yeah, I'm very excitedthat you won blue ribbons for
(41:40):
what it is that you do, becauseyou were supposed to be at the
fair regardless, you know.
Speaker 5 (41:46):
You're supposed to be there.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
You're supposed to be there.
Yes, anybody else wanna sharewhy they believe representation
of black dolls impactself-esteem and, you know,
mostly people in the blackcommunities, I think and that's
one thing I love about your showtoo, because it is in a
community where people haveaccess to it, you know, and it's
needed.
They need to see people who arein the dark community creating
(42:09):
dolls that look like them and aplace that they can afford and
also something that they feel ispart of their community as well
.
Speaker 7 (42:16):
I'd like to say that through some of the antique
dolls, and especially withresearch and history, that
children have learned that theywere blacks in society and not
just in the ghettos, that blacksdressed well and they were
(42:38):
noble, and that it has causedsome of them to really research
and found out how no people thatwe were, as in the United
States, we've been all taughtthat we came from slaves and we
were the underdog, and that allthe other nationalities also
(43:03):
look down on us and it's broughtout in research.
You know that we are worthypeople.
Yes, so true.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
So true.
If I could add to that whatSister Cheryl was saying, it
brought to mind when we startedback in the late 80s and 90s, we
had a theme for each show.
It was to teach.
We had where we made Egyptiandolls black Egyptian when they
were showing Egyptians as beingall white, we let you know that
(43:39):
was on the continent of Africa.
We were pharaohs and queens andso we had our Egyptian dolls
that we made.
And then we had the beauty ofblack marriage.
We did a whole show withweddings and beautiful dolls and
we had pictures of ourselvesand our families.
So each year we would have atheme to educate and to make you
(44:04):
feel good from the inside outand show the importance of the
black family and the reflectionof.
We are beautiful people, youknow, and when we come from
kings and queens, we have beendoing that and we haven't
wavered since we started that.
It's not just a show, it is anexperience, it's an education
(44:24):
and it shows black artists whoare so talented that you don't
get to see from all over thecountry.
We're here and we're making itand it's about you.
So I just wanted to add that.
Thank you, sister Cheryl, forbringing that back to mind.
You know we teach and thatfeels so desperately needed.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yes, teach and educate.
That's so important becausethey need to see that, like you
said, we don't just come fromone place.
We come from many places and wedo many things and we are
powerful and we are, you know,we are knowledgeable and
intelligent and we areentrepreneurs and we're doll
artists and we do many thingsthat are important, and I think
(45:06):
that it's important foreverybody to see that that's who
we are.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
I want to add to that that also it's important that
the children, when they go tothese different functions where
dolls are seen, that they seedolls of all colors, because
slowly but surely racism isstill very much alive and
functioning and the more thatyou can bring to the populace
(45:34):
that you're wrong in denyingrights of individuals, the
children can spot thisimmediately and they don't wanna
give children that intelligencethat they realize what they're
seeing is not what they're beingtold.
So I just wanted to add thatalso that it's important to
(45:55):
bring all colors into dollmaking.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Yes, it is, it really , it truly is.
I guess.
For me, being a doll makermyself, I know when I started
out we started out in 1999 and2000 making big, beautiful dolls
there were very few peoplemaking black dolls, especially
in the space that we were in inthe viral fashion doll world,
and it was hard finding peoplefor us to have mentors because
(46:21):
they just weren't out there.
And so I think something thatyou have created with the
American Black Beauty DollAssociation and also the
Festival of Black Dolls shows.
I think it is important,because when people need mentors
, people need people to go toand to look up to, that are in
certain spaces that they wannaget involved in.
They don't have far to lookanymore, and that's the
(46:44):
beautiful thing.
I just wanna honor all of youfor being members and founding
members and legacy members tohelp grow what it is that you
guys started so many, many yearsago, and I just wanna say thank
you to all of you.
I really do, because what youbring to the table is just
beautiful and powerful, and Iwanna say thank you so much for
(47:05):
being in the doll world to sharethat with us.
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 6 (47:10):
And I would like to add we just want everyone to
come out to the Festival ofBlack Dolls show and sell.
We have an amazing sale goingon in our dolly boutique.
We have all the dolls that wereleft over from the Hollywood
Walk of Dolls discounted at anunbelievable price.
You need to come on out, youneed to buy a raffle ticket to
(47:30):
win this beautiful made Jamesoncuts them doll that we have.
All of our raffle dolls duringthe years have been wonderful.
So there's gonna be food, music, just vendors in our guest
speaker, bukola Samati, come out.
She invented the first dollthat can cold and she is a
(47:53):
wonderful and beautiful, smartindividual that everyone needs
to come out and meet and hearher story.
So we just wanna welcomeeveryone with open arms.
Come out and enjoy yourself andhave a good time at the
Festival of Black Dolls.
Show and sell.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
That is great.
Yes, Kola is amazing and shewas on the show.
She was on one of the shows inthe doll world.
She's her doll is amazing, andwhere can people find out about
the Festival of Black Dolls showand also about the American
Black Beauty Doll Association?
Speaker 6 (48:24):
You can find us at wwwweloveblackdollscom.
It also on Facebook and onInstagram.
Very good.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Thank you so much, lady, and I'll have all your
information.
Everybody who has a shop orstore will be included in the
description of the show, soeverybody can find out where
everybody wants to come and lookat your dolls.
But please make sure you go totheir website so you can learn
about the Festival of BlackDolls show and that's coming up
in November 4th.
So I'm excited that you guysjoin me.
(48:55):
Thank you guys so much forhaving me.
I had a wonderful time.
I got a little emotional, but Iappreciate it.
Love you, thank you.
Speaker 6 (49:04):
And the beautiful girls are amazing.
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Thank you guys, thank you.
Speaker 6 (49:09):
Bye, bye everybody, thank you, bye.
Hello everybody and welcome to In the Dawn Wall.
I'm your host, jojette Tell,and, as always, I'm excited to
have you join me for a newepisode of the show.
I'm even more excited because,as you can see, I have six
beautiful women here on the showtoday, and so, you know, be
patient with me, people, bepatient with me.
Okay, we have members andfounding members and legacy
(00:25):
members of the American BlackBeauty Doll Association, also
known as the American BlackBeauty Doll Artist, and they are
hosting a beautiful festivalthat they do every year, called
the Festival of Black Dolls Showand Sale on November 4th, and
I'm so excited to be able totalk to them about their journey
, why they started thefoundation, why people are
(00:48):
members of the foundation, andalso a little bit about each one
of their journeys into dollmaking, a doll collecting and
just the doll in our communityin general.
So again, welcome everybody toIn the Dawn World.
I'm gonna start with some smallintroductions from everybody.
So first we have Karen Oyakami.
(01:08):
She is the founder of AmericanBlack Doll Beauty Association.
She is also the CEO of KissingCousins Doll and she is also a
commercial artist, illustrator,which she received her degree in
1981.
And her and her sister havestudied doll making and doll
sculpting.
(01:28):
In 1983, they started a companyknown as K&K and she has sold
her dolls in the United Statesand abroad and specializes in
one of her kind dolls.
We also have Kanisha DaisyDecree.
She is a member of the AmericanBlack Beauty Doll Association
and also known on social mediaas Daisy the Clown.
(01:49):
Not only is she an amazingclown, she is also an author,
interior designer and aphenomenal balloon artist, and
she has traveled around theworld sharing her amazing Daisy
the Clown with so many childrenin other countries.
Then we have Cheryl Buckley.
He was also a founder of theABBDA.
She is also the secretary andthe owner of Buck's Doll House.
(02:12):
Cheryl is not only a mother,but she's a grandmother and she
started her doll making career,creating dolls for her children.
She attended a Black Doll Showand decided she wanted to try
her hand at porcelain dollmaking and, needless to say,
she's become phenomenal at itbecause she is now the
association's go-to person forall porcelain techniques.
That is amazing.
(02:33):
That's pretty cool.
I love that.
Then we have Lillian Black, whois a legacy member.
She is also the owner ofLillian's Dolls and Things and I
did hear that she justcelebrated her 90th birthday, so
that's pretty amazing.
I'm so excited.
That's so beautiful.
She started her doll makingjourney in 1995 as a
(02:55):
stress-reducing hobby.
She attended classes andquickly became addicted, which
we know.
When you create the house, youmake dolls, you buy dolls, you
just become addicted.
That's just how it goes.
She traveled to England toattend the national events and
also she just has found theexperience of doll making to be
a great stress reliever.
(03:15):
Then we have Adwa Cooper.
She is also a member and she isalso known on social media as
Adwa Designs.
She's an award-winning crochetdoll artist and she makes
crochet dolls with personality.
Her passion inspired her toopen her own Etsy store and a
website where she shares herunique crochet creations.
She really competes annually atthe California State Fair and
(03:38):
she came in first place and wasawarded Blue Ribbon for her work
.
I'm so excited.
That is beautiful, beautifulwork.
You ladies are amazing.
And last but definitely notleast, we have Stacey.
She is not only a member ofAmerican Black Beauty Doll
Association, she also is thevice president and also known
through social media as Staceyand Lena Monique Stacey and her
(04:01):
daughter Alicia.
They create relatable culturalawareness through Barbie dolls.
She started at a very early ageby experimenting with paper
dolls and moved up to Barbierepaints, which she does
amazingly well re-routes andrestyling.
She turns them into modern dayfashions.
Thank you so much, ladies, forbeing on In the Doll World.
I'm so excited to have all ofyou here.
(04:23):
So I'm going to ask Karen thefirst question.
What I'd like to know from you,karen, this is an amazing
association.
You've had it for many, manyyears, so I really wanted you to
share a little bit about yourinspiration behind founding the
American Black Beauty DollAssociation and how has it
evolved over the years.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Well, I got interested in starting this
organization because of the lackof black dolls on the market
and I had my daughter in 1982and in 1983, I couldn't find
dolls that represented her and Iwas teaching doll making at the
(05:07):
Allen Temple Arms in Oakland,california.
And that's how I met CherylBuckley and Grace Broda some
other of our founding members,in Florence, maine, and we
decided let's do it ourselves,let's start making beautiful
black dolls to represent ourchildren and children of color
(05:29):
and to lift their self-esteemand see themselves reflected
positively in dolls.
And that's how we got startedmaking dolls for children to
play with and also as teachingtools.
And that was the inspiration ofstarting American Black Beauty
Doll Association in 1984.
Speaker 1 (05:48):
1984.
Wow, that's been a long time.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yes, that's been running.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
It really has been the other thing.
One really quick question thenI'm going to bounce over to
Kanisha because I know she isdoing her Daisy Declown thing
and I don't want to mess withthat.
But one thing I did want to askyou, karen, was that in 1984,
it's so needed then and youstill see how much is needed now
.
Are you surprised at how muchis still needed?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yes, I am, and it just shows that the work
probably will never be done.
We need to keep going with thisand that's why I'm so excited
to have Ottawa and Stacy andKanisha and the young fresh
blood artists to keep this going, because we've been at this the
(06:41):
founders a long time and thework is still so much needed.
There's so many young peoplethat still don't know who they
are and don't see themselvesreflected, are they get lost in
their phone.
We want to pull them back tocreate something and also be
creative through our work andinvolve young people in it with
(07:04):
workshops and these festivals,and we want to see it keep going
.
We've been doing this foralmost 40 years and we're not
done.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
We're not done.
Definitely, that's definitelytrue.
We are definitely not done.
Certainly a test of that.
So, kanisha, how are you today?
Speaker 4 (07:26):
I am absolutely amazing.
Oh, that's great.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
I see that you are hard at work there, so I wanted
to ask you a question.
Well, first I want to justshare a little bit about
yourself how you got started indoing and becoming a clown,
because you are so versatile,with so many different amazing
work, that you have not just anauthor, you are also interior
designer.
So how did clowns becomesomething that you thought was
(07:49):
really important to showcase,and how does that work actually
intersect with the AmericanBlack Beauty Doll Association?
Speaker 4 (07:58):
Absolutely so.
I was born and raised in NewOrleans and I had a theater
class.
He taught us how to be clowns.
So from there I was performingfor kids' tent.
Ok, of course there's aninspection going on now.
I was performing at the kids'tent of the Jazz Inheritance
Festival, Fast forward.
I have a psychology degree andan interior design degree, but I
(08:21):
always volunteered and from amental health standpoint I know
kids wanted to hug.
They had teddy bears, they haddolls, they would talk to the
dolls, they would have imaginaryfriends.
So I love dolls, so kids canactually let the dolls copy them
like what they're wearing.
So I particularly like 18 inchdolls so they can match their
(08:42):
dolls or they can then feel likethey're important to the dolls.
Somebody cares about them and Iknow my mom told me stories of
running around to four stores totry and find a cabbage patch.
So then when that grew up, toother dolls.
But it really is the art of playwith you.
So in a psychology setting Ican use a doll to explain how
(09:03):
are you feeling or if there wassomething inappropriate that
happened, they can point towhere it happened.
So it was kind of giving avoice to the voice list from a
psychological standpoint.
And then I got so inspired withclothing and hair to keep up,
because kids wanted to see wedidn't have blonde hair, we have
short, curly country hair.
So, with the customizationsthat some of the other team
(09:25):
members do, I just wanted tohave something unique on and
then follow the journey.
You don't have to fit into amold that you see, you can
create it yourself, Almost likethe cliche that says don't wait
to be invited to the table,build your own table or start
gathering your clothes, so it'salmost like that with dolls.
So if I didn't see it, okay, howcan I dye her skin, or how can.
(09:46):
I make her hair or put littlecurly rainbows in it, because
that's something I like, so youdon't have to fit inside the box
.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
Do you introduce dolls in your clown sketches?
Speaker 4 (09:56):
Yes, when I am doing more hospital visits, because I
can't bring balloons because oflatex.
But in a hospital setting or apsychological setting, yes.
But I have a friend like alittle me.
I can do a magic trick and thedoll is dressed just like me and
of course I disappear andwhat's left is the doll, dressed
just like me, so of course theythink I disappeared.
(10:18):
So I do use dolls in my clownshows from time to time and it's
easy to pack.
So I'm grateful.
As a clown.
I've been at six continents inmore than 35 countries clowning
and most recently we've patchedatoms about six weeks ago.
But dolls are absolutely withme wherever I go.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
That's very cool, that's great.
I love it.
I love that.
So you've been around the worlddoing this and you do it at the
Festival of Black Dolls show aswell.
Do you see a difference of howthe children respond to you when
you're at the Festival of BlackDolls as opposed to around the
world, or do they react the sameway?
Speaker 4 (10:56):
It's a permission to have fun.
So many kids are used to goingto the store and their parents
saying don't touch that, don'ttouch that With me.
They're kind of giving them ahigh five like, ooh, look, how
pretty her hair is, it's justlike.
So it gives them a permissionthat they don't have to be on
guard, they don't have to sit ontheir hand.
But then they can say I'llnotice different details in them
, like they, my bow tie, are thecolor of their hair.
(11:17):
So they can start saying waysthat they are unique, so they
can start pulling that outinside of them.
So at the Dolls show they'relike oh wait, there's a doll,
that's a clown.
Or wait, there's a girl, that'sa clown.
Wait, there's a black girl,that's a clown.
You have that.
So you don't have to look likeRonald or anyone else.
You can be your own creativeself.
(11:39):
And that's what the dollsreflect in all of the different
types from in some of the olderladies.
It's not just kids.
They didn't have these dolls,like Miss Karen was saying, when
they were growing up.
They had Kenya and they had oneother one I can't think of her
name.
So now to see this evolution ofwhat they wish they had.
They're buying for grandkidsKids they don't even grandkids
(12:00):
that don't even have yetneighbors to make sure it's all
inclusive and diverse, for evensome of their neighbors who are
not African-American, they'restill introducing so kids can
get used to.
Let me have a brown skin dolltoo, so it's for everybody and
I'm grateful for being a part ofthe group.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
I was just going to ask you too, like what drew you
into the group?
Right, you know what drew youbecoming part of, you know,
becoming a member of theAmerican Blank Beauty Doll
Association.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
It's the beauty, like African-American in tones are
so unique from one side to theother, like I'm proud to see,
and you know, coffee with nocream.
You know, in the dolls, like,no, like your complexion is
absolutely beautiful.
Mine is too.
So when you get all of thesedifferent conflections, our art
(12:49):
forms, just like the crochet,the porcelain, the Barbie, the
articulated, so all of thosedifferent details, it just
attracted me, like differentways we can communicate beauty,
whether it's a small doll, bigdoll, baby doll, so little girls
can see the beauty inthemselves.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Okay, great.
Well, thank you so much.
I know you are doubted.
You're doing your work andsharing your beautiful days in
the clown with so many peoplearound.
I want to thank you so much forbeing here in the doll world
with us here to share why it'simportant for people to have
black dolls and have dollsrepresented and the work that
you do out there.
So thank you so much.
Can you just quickly telleverybody where they could find
(13:28):
you at?
Speaker 4 (13:29):
Sure, I'm Daisy the Clown on Instagram and YouTube,
but if you go to Instagramthere's a link treat and it'll
show you everywhere.
You can probably so if youstart at Instagram and Daisy the
Clown, but who knows, I mightbe in a city near you.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
And you'll be at the Festival of Black Dolls, so
we're excited about it.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
Absolutely, you won't miss me.
I'll say that you won't miss me.
Very good thank you so much,Disha.
Thank you, honored.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Thank you for joining us.
I appreciate it.
Karen, I want to talk to youbecause I know you were talking
about your inspiration andfinding that, but as a person
who creates dolls and make dollsculptures, I think for me it's
like when I'm doing the show.
I realized that there's so manypeople who do dolls.
(14:15):
But one of the things that Ifind that lacks in the doll
community is black people doingvinyl dolls.
Now, I know it's very expensiveand very pricey to do.
What made you decide to do thetypes of dolls that you do,
especially one of a kind?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Well, I really love.
Well, my first lesson was doingchildren dolls also children
and I love working fromphotographs and I did start off
with porcelain in 1980, but I'vegraduated on to felt press felt
(14:52):
, which is a technique thatstarted in the 1920s and 30s
with the Lindsay, and I lovedoing that because I can still
sculpt and then I just press thefelt over and it's like
painting on a canvas and justbeing able to be specific and
(15:13):
original and really use thatface as a canvas to capture the
essence of the person.
And I'm doing, I enjoy that alot.
I love vinyl dolls but I havenever been able to get into that
area.
But I love doing felt andporcelain.
(15:33):
That's my area expertise.
That's your area expertise okay, very cool.
Speaker 1 (15:40):
How do you go about finding the people who want to
be part of the American BlackBeauty Doll Association?
Do you look for people and thensay I would like to invite you
to be members, or do theygenerally find you?
Speaker 2 (15:52):
They generally find us, and then we get a lot of
people that come to the show andexpress the interest, and now
that we're more out there,especially being on Instagram
and Facebook, we get moreinquiries and so we have a
interview process and we're ableto really see where their
(16:13):
interests lie and if ourorganization would be the fit
that they're looking for.
So that's how we mainly theycome to us.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
I'm not excited about that.
Okay, very nice, very nice.
I didn't know, it was aninterview process.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
I think that's pretty neat.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Yeah, you want to make sure that the people that
you are bringing on into yourorganization and association
make the dolls that you want tosee portrayed.
I think that's really importanttoo is to be able to keep that
not just that beauty, but theculture of African American
dolls alive.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Yes, and then they understand what we're about and
that we inspire them.
They can learn more about whothey are as African Americans
through art, from our experience, and then they also bring a lot
to the table.
So we're excited when we getnew members that really can
excel in the organization, likewhat we have now.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
Yay, that's what you have, beautiful Cheryl.
Hi, cheryl, how are you?
I'm good, I'm good, so I knowthat you're a founder as well
and you're also the secretary,but you're starting creating
dolls for your children.
How did it evolve into becomingmore than creating dolls just
for your children and for otherchildren as well?
Speaker 7 (17:33):
I think it was mainly that.
Well, my kids always had thedolls that I created for them,
and they were mainly cloth dolls, and other children did like to
play with them.
I gave quite a few away asbirthday gifts, but the parents
wanted to save it instead ofletting the child play with it,
(17:57):
and that I didn't like.
But, and I found that my boyswere just as interested in
playing with those dolls.
They would change their clothes, of course, because they wore
clothes on their dolls, and assoon as the girls got a new doll
, they would take out their oldone and do what they wanted to
(18:20):
do with them.
But as I came up, it just wasthe white dolls with black
coloring on their faces, and soin my situation, which I mostly
was doing, porcelain dolls.
(18:41):
I would look for the molds thatI could translate them into
black dolls.
And I come to find out thatmost of the original antique
dolls, their models, wereactually mixed children that
(19:02):
were mixed with African inEuropean, because they were
beautiful, wow, and they wouldmake their dolls from their
molds, from those children, andso it wasn't too hard to find
molds, especially in the antiquedesign that also had our
(19:22):
African features.
But the only thing about theporcelain the children have to
be very careful with that.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Yes.
Those are not play dolls right.
No they're not.
No, they're definitely not playdolls.
How did you become a foundingmember?
What was that journey?
Speaker 7 (19:42):
I went to a doll show and that was before I actually
got into the porcelain and Karenwas there, and so she invited
me to Allen Temple, becausewhere I was taking lessons it
was from a white lady and myfirst actual doll I made was the
(20:06):
white doll.
And Karen introduced me intothe black slip that she was
using at the time, and so Igraduated from that to mix in my
own slip, because they only hadone color black slip, and I got
to mix in my own.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
And so yeah, well, I hope, because let me ask you
this skirt, because noteverybody may know what that
means.
What is a slip?
Exactly what is that?
Speaker 7 (20:34):
The liquid form of the porcelain.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Okay, all right.
Yes, did you find challenges?
Speaker 7 (20:40):
working with porcelain.
The challenges I had workingwith porcelain is that you had
to pay at the time for someoneelse to pour the mold for you,
so that you bought it in agreenware state, and then you
also needed a kiln to do yourfire, and so that inspired me to
(21:02):
get my own molds and my ownkiln.
So I have quite a big clutch inthe molds now and some of them
are getting a little bit tooheavy for me now, but I still
have them.
But those were the mainchallenges getting the paints,
(21:23):
the paints to blend in with thecoloring that you had on the
doll.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
I heard that coloring has always been a challenge.
That's been one of thechallenges when people make
porcelain dolls or even siliconedolls or anything like that.
It's always the coloring thatyou know.
That's right.
Does the coloring course?
More money, I had heard, forsome ways, I think, for vinyl
models, I do believe.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
It was just getting the right color and you always
mixed your colorings so youcould get the regular coloring,
but it's the way you mix them.
And then they started mixingthem.
They started making them in thedifferent brown tones and I
think that's what encouragedthem to make them in the
(22:08):
different brown tones.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Okay, well, thank you so much.
We will come back to you Iappreciate you sharing your
joining with us.
Miss Lillian, how are you?
Speaker 3 (22:18):
I'm good, thank you for asking.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
Oh, I'm good too.
And happy belated birthday.
That's beautiful.
Thank you, you're so welcome.
So I know you're a legacymember of the American Black
Beauty Doll Association.
What does a legacy member mean?
What does it mean to you beinga legacy member?
Speaker 3 (22:37):
For me it's just a pleasure to be working with
these ladies who are muchyounger than I am, but I'm still
, you know, interested in doingdolls.
That's my passion At my age.
You can imagine and I have adaughter and two sons that they
didn't have any dolls of color.
When I wanted my daughter tohave a doll, her grandmother
(23:04):
gave her a doll, one of thesewalking dolls, and she was white
and it frightened Tracy, so shekept it in the closet.
She never brought it out toplay.
She never brought it out.
Oh, wow, yeah, correct, and so Ithought that really is very
interesting.
It frightened her for her tosee a doll half her size and she
(23:27):
doesn't want to play with her,and that, you know, was
surprising to me.
But yet it wasn't, because allof her friends were of mixed.
We lived in an area where therewas, you know, all people of
color, and so she was used tobeing around all people of color
, yet she still didn't want thisdoll to be on her bed.
(23:49):
It stayed in her closet.
But other than that, I justlike being doing dolls.
You like doing dolls, right?
And now that I'm getting olderand older and older, I'm wanting
to do dolls that Karen does thesoft dolls.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
Right, right, and what inspired you to become a
member of the American BlackBeauty Doll Association
no-transcript.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
I had, first of all, I'm a retired public health
nurse.
Well, a nurse period and I wason my job and I passed this
little doll cottage and it hadall these dolls in the window
and I said, oh, and there waseven a doll of color in the
window and I said, oh, I mustcheck that out when I come back
(24:39):
from my interview with this withthis whole nurse situation.
And indeed I did.
And it was white-owned.
And the woman said, oh, no, youcan join a class when we're
getting ready to have our newclass on this coming weekend.
Well, that just sat with me andI said, but what about dolls of
(25:00):
color?
I don't see that many.
And she said, listen, they'reall white and what we do is just
add color to it.
Right?
And I said, ok, well, that'llwork.
And that's how I got starteddoing porcelain dolls, because I
thought, oh, now I could get adoll for my daughter that really
looks like her color-wise.
(25:22):
And so that was my beginning indoing porcelain dolls, and I
really like the expressions.
Most of my dolls are ofchildren, some are adults, boys
and girls, all ages, frominfants to models.
So I really enjoy that.
Speaker 1 (25:45):
Yeah, and you said it was a stress reliever for you.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
But you're getting ready to sand the doll when it
comes out of the kiln.
Just using your own hands orusing stocking, sanding the
seams down is just so relaxing,just so relaxing yeah.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Thank you so much for sharing your journey.
I appreciate that and we aregoing to talk to Ms Adwa.
How are you today?
I'm well.
Can you hear me?
Yes, I can hear you,wonderfully.
Thank you so much.
I know you have amazing crochetdolls.
Well, you're an award-winningcrochet doll artist, so I know
that they're amazing.
They are beautiful.
I really have seen your work onmany, many occasions, so why
(26:27):
don't you just share a littlebit more about your journey and
how you started crocheting dolls?
And also, I just want to knowhow do you feel that crochet
dolls kind of fits in with beinga member of the American Black
Beauty Doll Association?
Speaker 5 (26:42):
Well, starting with that, I like the fact that it
kind of doesn't fit in, becauseone thing that was kind of
discouraging about doing this asa business was the fact that
there were in my circle so manycrochet doll artists and I
thought where am I going to fitin?
So it's just inspiring to seeso many different mediums used,
(27:07):
and for me to be the only onethat does it the way I do it
it's like yay, so that was a joy.
With that said, though, thishas been, this journey has just
been amazing.
Like Miss Lilly, and I'm anurse as well, and I was working
one day and being nosy on alunch break and there was a
(27:31):
group of therapists and justhaving their lunch, but they
were all doing different formsof needle craft and I thought,
you know?
And I went in and I noticed twoladies knitting and crocheting
and I sat with them.
They showed me the fundamentalsand then it just took off from
(27:51):
there.
But, like most beginningstitchers, I made hats and
scarves for everybody and theygot sick of it and they said
please, do something else,please.
You know, we have enough.
And that's how I got into dollmaking.
I saw a doll.
I think it was made of questlove the drummer on the Jimmy
(28:12):
Kimmel show.
I liked it, but I kind ofthought, well, who made this?
And it sent me down this rabbithole and I realized the artist
was not African American, shewasn't a woman of color Nothing
against that but for my eyes,looking at this doll, I felt it
was representative of his trueappearance.
(28:34):
And then that sent me downanother rabbit hole, looking at
different textures of yarn tomatch his actual hair texture,
his true skin tone andundertones.
You know we have a lot more tous than just brown, you know.
So that's what got me into dollmaking.
I'm self taught, I read a lotof books, I use the University
(28:58):
of YouTube and it just evolved.
And where I'm at now, and Ilove it and I can't wait to
retire and do this full timebecause work gets in my way, I
have dolls to make, I have tripsto take.
You know, we have events to do.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
So, yeah, it's a blessing.
Work does get in your way whenyou are actually creative and
creative.
It really does.
So why did you feel it wasimportant for you to become a
member of the American BlackBeauty Doll Association?
Why was that something that youthink you know, something that
you felt that you needed to do?
Speaker 5 (29:35):
It was kind of meant to happen and it was kind of
what's that word?
Like serendipity happened andthat's how I got here.
I was doing a doll.
Well, it was a craft fair inJack London Square and I loved
doing that show, just becausethe vibe you know, you're in
Oakland, it's beautiful.
(29:56):
And I remember a patron came upto my table and she said why
aren't you with the Black DollAssociation?
And I'm like, what Black DollAssociation?
So she couldn't give me anyinformation.
I figured, oh, I'll look it up.
I tried and I tried and I tried.
I didn't find anything.
And you know, life died in theway, right.
And then, stacy, I think youeither sent me a, you put a
(30:22):
comment or you sent me a messageon Instagram and I thought this
is what I've been looking for.
She just said, hey, we're doinga show, would you be interested
?
And I'm like, of course.
So I did the show.
And then I found out about theapplication process and I
applied and I interviewed and Imade the pet and I was so happy
(30:45):
and that's just kind of how ithappened.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
That's so cool.
So have you been showcasingyour dolls at the Festival of
Black Dolls, and how long haveyou been doing that Since?
You became a member.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
This will be my second show.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
So last year was my first one.
Okay, beautiful, I love that.
Thank you so much for sharingthat, ms Stacy.
Speaker 6 (31:05):
Yes, hi Georgia.
How are you today?
I'm doing good.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (31:10):
I'm doing good.
I'm excited to talk with you aswell.
I'm excited to talk to all ofyou because I, you know we have
wow.
Just having all you women hereto me is so.
It's just so powerful becausethere's so many different types
of dolls that you create.
Not only that, you know, youcreate an association.
I think that is so important tobe part of.
(31:30):
I mean, it's just if you're ablack doll artist, it's just
important to be a part of whatyou do.
You know, because still neededand you know we had that
conversation previously the factthat it's just a continuation
of the things that are stillneeded in this world.
Having black dolls representwho we are.
Stacy, you do that well.
You repaint, you do redesigns.
(31:55):
They're amazing.
So how did that did that startfor you?
I know you were playing withdolls at a young age, but how
did you decide or think aboutredesigning and telling a new
story with, you know, with olderdolls, with dolls that never
really represented us?
Speaker 6 (32:14):
To start off, my niece was born.
She was the first daughter inthe family, the first girl in
the family, so my sister had herand I wanted her to be that
Barbie for me.
So I created a whole line ofBarbie dolls for her, in every
color dress you could imagine,but the big tool dresses and
(32:35):
everything.
So she had a shelf and wedisplayed all the dolls that I
made for her.
So 30 years later now she's 30,and I've been in this doll
world seen for over 10 years now.
It evolved and now I see, youknow, we are glamorous, we're
beautiful, and I would like toshowcase that in my doll making.
(32:59):
As far as the Barbies areconcerned, the Barbie is
fabulous, so let's make theAfrican-American Barbies
fabulous, you know, let's makeher just as gorgeous as the
other dolls you see online.
So that's where I started withthat mission as far as making
the dolls glamorous.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Right.
I love how you said that,though you know, let's make the
Black Barbie dolls more, just asglamorous.
And the fact that you actuallydo that and you showcase the
Black Barbies in all their glory, you know, in all the things
that we can do as people, Ithink that's great.
The way you restyle them isjust amazing.
So I know you.
I do know you work with yourdaughter.
So how do you combine skillstogether, right?
(33:39):
And your perspective aboutdolls, because she's younger
than you, right?
How does that contribute towhat you create together?
Speaker 6 (33:48):
Well, for one, she has that youthful idea and
thoughts that she always bringto me.
Mom, that's too old, Mom, we'redoing this.
Mom, the songs are outdated.
You need to put more trendysongs on your social media.
So she gives me a lot of goodadvice.
And also, as far as designing,I would like to show you one of
(34:09):
my dolls here.
She is going to be MissBrooklyn at the Doll Show.
Nice, she's gorgeous.
Yes, so she's going to be oneof my dolls.
And if you notice her hair, mydaughter was telling me mom,
make sure she has really, reallytight coils, Make sure her hair
is really tight and curly.
(34:30):
So, of course, she was a dollthat came with straight hair and
I really fixed her up.
And she's Miss Oakland for theDoll Show.
So I'm working on different.
And then I went back to myoriginal big dress that my niece
all the big dresses that myniece would have and I went back
to my roots so I created acouple of dolls just like that
(34:53):
and let me show you one more.
This is the Barbie Now.
She's Miss Fabulous Barbie, oh,pretty Handbags, and she has
the big tool dress Again, Ithink you see half.
So I kind of went back to theroots.
I said, okay, let me go back tothe beginning and let's get
(35:13):
these big dresses out.
And the movie came out.
So Barbie is glamorous.
So of course I have to makesome big, beautiful, glamorous
dolls, and plus pink, okay,everything is extravagant, and
pink, yeah, extravagant.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Yes, definitely, that's definitely.
I know you're the vicepresident of the American Blank
Beauty Doll Association.
What made you want to join thisassociation?
Speaker 6 (35:38):
Been doing their shows for a long time and when
you have opinions you just can'tbring up an opinion oh, you
guys should do this or you guysshould do that.
If you want to make adifference, you have to join the
group to make a difference andthen voice your opinion and give
them your reasons.
Why is certain things that youthink should change a little bit
(35:59):
?
So I jumped on board and I'vebeen a member now for what?
Close to eight years, and Ijust love the ladies.
I love how we bounce off ofeach other's ideas, how I
learned from them.
They have just really taught mea lot.
And so, moving forward as faras being vice president, I
really enjoy that because myconnection in the doll world
(36:23):
allows me to reach out, to likeyou and reach out to the people
that maybe they don't know aboutand bring it to the doll group
and we can just really grow andlearn and just get to know
different artists.
Speaker 1 (36:37):
When you guys are so beautiful, I'm getting emotional
.
Okay, hold on.
Wow, this has never happened tome before.
Okay.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
You're gonna make me cry.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Oh, we appreciate you .
This is amazing and you'reamazing.
Thank you for having us likethis.
Speaker 1 (37:03):
You're welcome.
Wow, that's okay.
I'm getting emotional because Ijust see the talent and the
passion and the beauty of whatyou guys do, not just as an
association but individually too, and the love that you have for
creating dolls that representdifferent facets of who we are,
(37:24):
in different genres anddifferent, you know, from
porcelain to crochet, torepainting, redesigning and
that's one of the things that Ireally wanted to be able to do
with this show was be able tobring people on and let people
know that they all have a spacein the community and that they
all, you know, the spaces thatthey create, you know, gives
them a voice, and I think youguys do that so well and just
(37:49):
phenomenally, you know.
I just wanna thank you for allyour work that you've been doing
out there to share howimportant it is for black dolls
to be seen and represented andto be there in a space.
So I'm gonna ask each one ofyour questions and what I wanna
know is how do you believe thatrepresentation of black dolls
(38:10):
impacts self-esteem and culturalidentity of young children,
especially from those in blackcommunities?
Speaker 6 (38:18):
I wanna start off first with that.
It's real important that blacklittle girls see themselves, not
just a black child that doesn'tcomb their hair or whatever the
stereotypes may be.
They need to see that even ifwe don't comb our hair, we're
still beautiful.
Our hair is in the texture thatwe don't have to comb it every
(38:41):
day.
It's just.
That's our beauty behind us.
So it's important for childrento be able to afford our dolls
for one.
Like at our doll show, we allowthe prices to be affordable for
the children who want thesebeautiful dolls that represent
them.
Mom, this doll is so beautifulbut you know we can't afford her
(39:01):
.
No, yes, you can, you couldafford her.
She's marketed a price at ourfestival that everybody will be
able to afford a beautiful dollthat represents them, and it is
important for them to see thatand feel just as beautiful as
the doll that they have.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
True, thank you, anybody else who wanted to pose
that question to everybody?
Speaker 5 (39:20):
I'd like to add that the whole representation
mattering it wasn't worded thatway to me as a child, but that
was just ingrained in me.
My father did not allow me tohave any dolls that did not look
like me.
He and my mom used to kind ofget into it about that, because
I'd get a lot of gifts and I'dsee a lot of dolls disappear
(39:43):
that didn't look like me and Ilearned I would have to wait
because in the early 80s if youcould find one, it was a process
.
You had to order it and you hadto wait.
And as a child I thought my dadwas so mean.
I was like daddy, why are youso mean?
Why don't you want me to havedolls?
But I didn't realize what hewas teaching me.
That has been with methroughout life.
(40:06):
When I was the only black nursein the room, I still had my own
self-worth.
When I couldn't style my hairlike some of the instructors
would tell me to, it didn't makeme feel bad, it was very
unapologetic.
I said this is what you'regonna get.
And I truly believe if myparents didn't instill that in
me, I wouldn't have been strongenough to do that and I would
(40:29):
have fell into feeling less than.
So it's so important.
I was recently asked why I evenbother competing at the fair
Because, like I believe Stacymentioned, you make your own
seat at the table when no oneinvites you to it.
You make your own and just tobe at these events and to see
(40:53):
the reactions to the dolls,they're so needed, it's so
needed and the kids need to seethat.
And it's priceless hearing thechildren say that doll looks
like me.
It's just priceless and soneeded.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
That's so true, and adults need it too.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
Trust me, don't think we don't need it, we do need it
.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Some of us, like you said, have different versions of
they're not feeling wantedbecause they weren't represented
.
Yes, and a lot of people don't.
Sometimes people can say, well,I don't see that represented,
I'm gonna go and make that, butnot everybody's like that, and
so a lot of times they don't seeit represented and it really
changes how they see themselvesin life.
And so, yeah, I'm very excitedthat you won blue ribbons for
(41:40):
what it is that you do, becauseyou were supposed to be at the
fair regardless, you know.
Speaker 5 (41:46):
You're supposed to be there.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
You're supposed to be there.
Yes, anybody else wanna sharewhy they believe representation
of black dolls impactself-esteem and, you know,
mostly people in the blackcommunities, I think and that's
one thing I love about your showtoo, because it is in a
community where people haveaccess to it, you know, and it's
needed.
They need to see people who arein the dark community creating
(42:09):
dolls that look like them and aplace that they can afford and
also something that they feel ispart of their community as well
.
Speaker 7 (42:16):
I'd like to say that through some of the antique
dolls, and especially withresearch and history, that
children have learned that theywere blacks in society and not
just in the ghettos, that blacksdressed well and they were
(42:38):
noble, and that it has causedsome of them to really research
and found out how no people thatwe were, as in the United
States, we've been all taughtthat we came from slaves and we
were the underdog, and that allthe other nationalities also
(43:03):
look down on us and it's broughtout in research.
You know that we are worthypeople.
Yes, so true.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
So true.
If I could add to that whatSister Cheryl was saying, it
brought to mind when we startedback in the late 80s and 90s, we
had a theme for each show.
It was to teach.
We had where we made Egyptiandolls black Egyptian when they
were showing Egyptians as beingall white, we let you know that
(43:39):
was on the continent of Africa.
We were pharaohs and queens andso we had our Egyptian dolls
that we made.
And then we had the beauty ofblack marriage.
We did a whole show withweddings and beautiful dolls and
we had pictures of ourselvesand our families.
So each year we would have atheme to educate and to make you
(44:04):
feel good from the inside outand show the importance of the
black family and the reflectionof.
We are beautiful people, youknow, and when we come from
kings and queens, we have beendoing that and we haven't
wavered since we started that.
It's not just a show, it is anexperience, it's an education
(44:24):
and it shows black artists whoare so talented that you don't
get to see from all over thecountry.
We're here and we're making itand it's about you.
So I just wanted to add that.
Thank you, sister Cheryl, forbringing that back to mind.
You know we teach and thatfeels so desperately needed.
Speaker 1 (44:45):
Yes, teach and educate.
That's so important becausethey need to see that, like you
said, we don't just come fromone place.
We come from many places and wedo many things and we are
powerful and we are, you know,we are knowledgeable and
intelligent and we areentrepreneurs and we're doll
artists and we do many thingsthat are important, and I think
(45:06):
that it's important foreverybody to see that that's who
we are.
Speaker 3 (45:10):
I want to add to that that also it's important that
the children, when they go tothese different functions where
dolls are seen, that they seedolls of all colors, because
slowly but surely racism isstill very much alive and
functioning and the more thatyou can bring to the populace
(45:34):
that you're wrong in denyingrights of individuals, the
children can spot thisimmediately and they don't wanna
give children that intelligencethat they realize what they're
seeing is not what they're beingtold.
So I just wanted to add thatalso that it's important to
(45:55):
bring all colors into dollmaking.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
Yes, it is, it really , it truly is.
I guess.
For me, being a doll makermyself, I know when I started
out we started out in 1999 and2000 making big, beautiful dolls
there were very few peoplemaking black dolls, especially
in the space that we were in inthe viral fashion doll world,
and it was hard finding peoplefor us to have mentors because
(46:21):
they just weren't out there.
And so I think something thatyou have created with the
American Black Beauty DollAssociation and also the
Festival of Black Dolls shows.
I think it is important,because when people need mentors
, people need people to go toand to look up to, that are in
certain spaces that they wannaget involved in.
They don't have far to lookanymore, and that's the
(46:44):
beautiful thing.
I just wanna honor all of youfor being members and founding
members and legacy members tohelp grow what it is that you
guys started so many, many yearsago, and I just wanna say thank
you to all of you.
I really do, because what youbring to the table is just
beautiful and powerful, and Iwanna say thank you so much for
(47:05):
being in the doll world to sharethat with us.
Thank you for having us.
Speaker 6 (47:10):
And I would like to add we just want everyone to
come out to the Festival ofBlack Dolls show and sell.
We have an amazing sale goingon in our dolly boutique.
We have all the dolls that wereleft over from the Hollywood
Walk of Dolls discounted at anunbelievable price.
You need to come on out, youneed to buy a raffle ticket to
(47:30):
win this beautiful made Jamesoncuts them doll that we have.
All of our raffle dolls duringthe years have been wonderful.
So there's gonna be food, music, just vendors in our guest
speaker, bukola Samati, come out.
She invented the first dollthat can cold and she is a
(47:53):
wonderful and beautiful, smartindividual that everyone needs
to come out and meet and hearher story.
So we just wanna welcomeeveryone with open arms.
Come out and enjoy yourself andhave a good time at the
Festival of Black Dolls.
Show and sell.
Speaker 1 (48:08):
That is great.
Yes, Kola is amazing and shewas on the show.
She was on one of the shows inthe doll world.
She's her doll is amazing, andwhere can people find out about
the Festival of Black Dolls showand also about the American
Black Beauty Doll Association?
Speaker 6 (48:24):
You can find us at wwwweloveblackdollscom.
It also on Facebook and onInstagram.
Very good.
Speaker 1 (48:34):
Thank you so much, lady, and I'll have all your
information.
Everybody who has a shop orstore will be included in the
description of the show, soeverybody can find out where
everybody wants to come and lookat your dolls.
But please make sure you go totheir website so you can learn
about the Festival of BlackDolls show and that's coming up
in November 4th.
So I'm excited that you guysjoin me.
(48:55):
Thank you guys so much forhaving me.
I had a wonderful time.
I got a little emotional, but Iappreciate it.
Love you, thank you.
Speaker 6 (49:04):
And the beautiful girls are amazing.
Yes, thank you.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
Thank you guys, thank you.
Speaker 6 (49:09):
Bye, bye everybody, thank you, bye.
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