Beekeeping - Nucs vs Packages

Keith: [00:00:00] Keith Ramsey with garden supply company. I've got Jason here today. Jason is our full-time beekeeper who manages the bee department. It helps people out with advice and does all of our pollination and honey chasing that we do up in, up, and down the red.

Jason, now we'll talk about the difference between nukes and packages. What do you think the biggest difference is between nukes and packages? Jason? 

Bee Expert: Timing. Timing is the. The advantage of getting an established colony over a loose assortment of bees, which is what a package of bees 

Keith: are.

And so packages usually come at what timeframe 

Bee Expert: packages are later in the season and are dependent on how the weather gums up through the south because most bees are coming up [00:01:00] from Georgia, and the lady gets them the less time you have to 

Keith: build. So if you get a package, you're not. You're likely not going to see honey that year.

Bee Expert: You be hopeful to build out your colony, fill out all the frames with wax, and have some food stores. You'll be supplementing to get 

Keith: that. I bought packages initially when I got into beekeeping ten years, 10, 15 years ago. And that was the thing I didn't even know about nukes when I got into it.

I knew I knew there were packages available, and I bought packages. But that was probably my biggest thing I learned down the road was that you could put a nuke in, and so our nukes come, what 

Bee Expert: 1st of March into February typically am. 

Keith: When you're in and how much, honey, could you harvest from a nuc?

It 

Bee Expert: is an established colony. So you've already got five full frames of these in different stages of development, a queen that's accepted and a colony that's actively working. So you put that into your hive, and in a few weeks, your calling will be filling out their box the amount of space they have to live in, and you [00:02:00] can start to gear them up to make honey.

So you can expect to get some honey depending on how well the weather and the season are. 

Keith: Sure. And the nuc and the queen, and there are many variables, but. The people look at nucs, and I think sometimes things think they're expensive. Or there's always a question of local nucs over Florida nucs.

I like Florida nucs because they come early. What's your 

Bee Expert: thought in general, I'm looking at bees. If I'm looking for something local, I'm probably looking more regional. So I wouldn't buy bees coming out of the Northwest and Northeast. I'd be looking for bees from the south or Southeast.

Sure. They don't necessarily have to be from the town I'm in, just from the general area that they're going to be forging on the same types of plants and have the same kinds of weather in 

Keith: general to deal with. So you, Florida bees that can handle humidity and heat, will thrive in North Carolina.

They'll do just fine. Excellent. Versus something that's acclimated to cold weather and, 

Bee Expert: general in general, any of the bees you're going to get, be it ones that are from more Northern climate or a Southern climate, they're [00:03:00] probably going to do fine. Anyhow, because bees will still go out and do what bees do forage on flowers.

Sure. It just, and it all depends on your goals as a beekeeper, too. So if you're looking to grow bees or if you're looking to produce honey for the different types of bees, you may. It May make a difference, but healthy bees are what you want in general. 

Keith: a healthy full nuc

It just gets you that quick start in the spring. We've started nucs in the last few years. Better than 60% of them, 70% of them produced honey. And, sometimes we'll begin to a nuc in a, in an eight frame or a ten frame box and let it build-out and then put a honey super on it and harvest honey depending on where we are with established hives.

But the other way you can do it is to build bees and build resources. 

Bee Expert: There'll be as if you're looking to have some pollinators. B's in general. Getting a nuc allows you to have to get them early enough allows you to take advantage of the full spring seat, 

Keith: right?

So you can put them in a hive body, and [00:04:00] then when they fill out, you can go ahead and add another hive body to it. So you have twice as many resources and the ability to split a hive maybe later on. 

Bee Expert: Absolutely. Yep. With the package bees, you're limited in time.

So you're going to get those later into this. Those bees are going to have first to accept the queen. That's been given to them to build out wax so that the queen can start laying eggs and start producing more of the colony and filling up enough of that space to reserve enough resources to get through. 

Keith: the summer and winter.

So then you're feeding, t

Episode Transcript

Keith (00:16):
Keith Ramsey with garden supply company.
I've got Jason here today.
Jason is our full-time beekeepermanages, the bee department.
Helps people out with advice and doesall of our pollination and honey chasing
that we do up in, up and down the red.
Jason, now we're going to talk about thedifference between nukes and and packages.

(00:37):
What do you think the biggest differenceis between nukes and packages?
Jason?

Bee Expert (00:40):
Timing.
Timing is the.
The advantage of getting an establishedcolony over a loose assortment of
bees, which is what a package of bees

Keith (00:49):
are.
And so packages usuallycome at what timeframe

Bee Expert (00:53):
packages are later in the season and are dependent on
how the weather gums up throughthe south, because most bees are
coming up from Georgia and the ladyget them the less time you have to

Keith (01:04):
build.
So if you get a package,you're not, you're likely not
going to see honey that year.

Bee Expert (01:08):
You be hopeful to build out your colony, to fill
out all the frames with wax andhave some food stores in them.
You'll definitely be supplementing to get

Keith (01:15):
that.
I bought packages initiallywhen I got into beekeeping
10 years, 10, 15 years ago.
And that was the thing I didn't evenknow about nukes when I got into it.
I knew I knew there was packagesavailable and I bought packages.
But that was probably my biggest thing Ilearned down the road was that, you can
put a nuke in and so our nukes come, what

Bee Expert (01:36):
1st of March into February typically am.

Keith (01:38):
And when you're in and how much, honey, could you harvest from a nuc?
It

Bee Expert (01:42):
is an established colony.
So you've already got five fullframes of these in different stages of
development, a queen that's acceptedand a colony that's actively working.
So you put that into your hive and ina few weeks your calling is going to
be filling out their box the amount ofspace that they have to live in and you
can start to gear them up to make honey.
So you can expect to get somehoney depending on how well

(02:05):
the weather and the season is.

Keith (02:06):
Sure.
And the nuc and the queen, andthere's lots of variables, but.
The people look at nucs, I think sometimesand things think they're expensive.
Or there's always a question oflocal nucs over Florida nucs.
I like Florida nucsbecause they come early.
What's your

Bee Expert (02:22):
thought in general, I'm looking at bees.
If I'm looking for something local,I'm probably looking more regional.
So I wouldn't buy bees thatare coming out of the Northwest
and Northeast necessarily.
I'd be looking for beesfrom the south or Southeast.
Sure.
They don't necessarily have to befrom the town I'm in just from the
general area that they're going to beforging on the same types of plants
and have the same types of weather in

Keith (02:43):
general to deal with.
So you, so Florida bees thatcan handle humidity and heat are
going to thrive in North Carolina.
They'll do just fine.
Excellent.
Versus something that'sacclimated to cold weather and,

Bee Expert (02:53):
general in general, any of the bees you're going to get be
it ones that are from more Northernclimate or from a Southern climate,
they're probably gonna do fine.
Anyhow, because bees are going to still goout and do what bees do forage on flowers.
Sure.
It just, and it all depends on somewhatof what your goals are as a beekeeper too.
So if you're looking to just grow beesor if you're looking to produce honey
the different types of bees, you may.

(03:13):
May make a difference, but in generalhealthy bees are what you want

Keith (03:17):
a healthy full nuc
it just gets you thatquick start in the spring.
We've started we've startednucs in the last few years.
Better than 60% of them,70% of them produced honey.
And, sometimes we'll start a nuc in a, inan eight frame or a 10 frame box and let
it build out and then put a honey superon it and actually harvest honey depending

(03:38):
on where we are with established hives.
But the other way you can do it isjust build bees and build resources.

Bee Expert (03:46):
There'll be as if you're looking to just have
some pollinators and just.
B's in general.
Getting a nuc allows you to have gettingthem early enough allows you to take
advantage of the full spring seat,

Keith (03:57):
right?
So you can put them in a hive body,and then when they fill out, you can go
ahead and add another hive body to it.
So you have twice as manyresources and the ability to
maybe split a hive later on.

Bee Expert (04:06):
Absolutely.
Yep.
With the package beesyou're limited in time.
So you're going to getthose later into this.
Those bees are going to haveto first accept the queen.
That's been given to them build out wax sothat the queen can start laying eggs and
start to produce more of the colony andfill up enough of that space so they can
reserve enough resources to get through

Keith (04:25):
the summer and winter.
So then you're feeding, you'retreating, and you're managing that
hive from say April 1st or May 1st.
All the way around until , May 1stagain, right before you're going
to be able to harvest any honey.

Bee Expert (04:38):
Absolutely.
So if you're looking at the costof things and look certainly do are
more, slightly more expensive overall,upfront, but overall over the course
of the year and trying to make themsurvive through the following year,
you'll probably spend more than.
Providing resources

Keith (04:52):
for your package, be sure.
So you're at Costco buying 25pound bags of sugar to feed
the bees instead of potentiallyharvesting honey the first year.
W what about the makeup of a package?
As far as the workers, or how apackage is, a package is just shaken
out of out of a full-size hive,

Bee Expert (05:10):
right?
So the commercial guys are the producersof packaged bees will go through
their bee yards and select a strongcolonies and just shake quantities of
bees out of those hives to provide.
For the packages.
So civil have a large box of many poundsof bees and take a scoop out, weigh them
out 2, 3, 3, 2, or three pounds each,dump them into a nother box and then add

(05:32):
a queen who's separated from that colony.

Keith (05:34):
So you could have all forgers and no nurse bees potentially.
Not all probably, but not a good mix of.
Absolutely.

Bee Expert (05:43):
You're getting a random assortment of bees that are pretty
aggressively handled up until the timeyou put them in your hive, the likelihood
of them doing well decreases as.
As all those issues

Keith (05:54):
occur to him.
Sure.
The other thing that I think with packagesthat people don't factor in is that, bees
are something that we, it's a difficultscenario because we guarantee plants and
we stand behind our work and, everythingthat we do at the garden center.
But these are somethingthat come with no guarantee.
It's these fly, they're an insect.
They and I've, we've hadyears where we installed 20

(06:15):
packages trying to build bees.
We had extra packages and we're goingto install them in our own Hobbs.
And, some of those packages just fly away.
So you, you know, you don't know ifit's worth it, you know, and you don't
know what you're getting, you know,you, uh, sometimes you get crazy BS.
Oh, we're going to build out this analogy

Bee Expert (06:38):
to

Keith (06:40):
the end.
, no, but you could install 10hives and have two of them fly
away or have five of them fly away.
So you've just, if you havefive, five of them fly away and
in one year it's a 50% increase.
Now you're paying, 15, 15, $20more than what a nuc would cost.
In in, in the flip side, You could buya nuc, build out a hive and split it by

(07:03):
in the first year and have two hives.
So there's a, there justseems like there's so many
advantages to to buying a nuc
and when you think about it, it's okay,it's going to be $195, later in the
season or it's going to be $225 early.
It's versus, versus the cost ofa package, it's just almost it's
it seems like a no brainer togo with the nuke on top of that.

(07:25):
Just success rate as well.
Absolutely.
It's 99%, with the nuke and a hundredpercent, if you're really managing it,
if something happens to, with the queenand you've got to replace a queen,
you've still got you've still got ahealthy nuke and you've got resources.
The other thing that I'll,that I wanted to talk about
was the availability of nukes.
And when you start a hiveeverybody's always started

(07:48):
hives at, in the early spring.
It's an April through may timeframebecause that's when packages are
available and that's when bees arebuilding up and they're getting ready
to go into the, to the the majorflow in north Carolina's tool Poplar.
So they're getting readyto go into the flow.
You can build a package of bees inthe spring and you can actually end up
with a healthy hive, but with the new.

(08:08):
There's really no timeframe, may get,except for, late fall, early winter,
our, through the winter the restof the year, you can put a new can.
And

Bee Expert (08:17):
packages are only available in the early spring.
And that's about it for four packages.
They're done.
So your opportunity to expandyour contemplate your colonies
is done at that point.
They can be.
Pretty much throughout the active season.
So up until late, early fall,late summer which allows you
all that extra advantages.
Of trying to expand your colony throughthe earth, your apiary through the

Keith (08:39):
year.
And then they're ready oncethey overwinter, they're ready
for the honey nectar flow.
So you can make, basically if youput a colony in September and fed
it make sure that it's treated andit's cared for you'll be making
honey coming into the spring.
That's correct.
Yeah.
I think that, that pretty much sumsit up on, on nukes and packages.

(09:00):
Both of them are definitelygood ways to start a hive.
But I think if you've got a littlebit more money to spend, you'll
end up saving money by doing a nuc.

Bee Expert (09:10):
Absolutely you will.

Keith (09:11):
Okay, perfect.
We'll stop by and talkto Jason at the store.
Follow us on Facebook.
Come by and check out.
Bond brothers has a hiveat garden supply company.
It's part of our host to hive program.
If beekeeping's not something that youwant to do yourself sign up for a host to
hive program and you can get involved, youcan see hives, you can get into the bond
brothers hive at garden supply company.

(09:33):
And then later on, if somethingyou want to adopt and bring home,

Bee Expert (09:36):
you'll get honey from those two, we guaranteed
honey from the host type program.
Yeah.

Keith (09:40):
So our host, the hive program was one of the only
ones that you actually can get.
You definitely get honey out of.
So it's a kind of a guaranteed program.

Bee Expert (09:48):
You're on the lookout for swarms as well.

Keith (09:50):
You have swarms swarms are now for sure.
They're middle of spring.
You'll start to see swarms andreach out to the garden center.
If you see one and we'll either comepick it up or get somebody to pick it up.
So it's not just it, save those beesuntil next time it's Keith Ramsey,
Jason at garden supply company.