August 9, 2025 • 45 mins
A flash point for much of the science vs. faith divide has been Darwinian evolution. Sharing the same mistaken belief that science contradicts the Bible, especially the Genesis account of creation, many scientists and many Christians have concluded that the worlds of science and religion are at odds. But according to biologist Sy Garte, PhD, evolution is irrelevant to the harmony of faith and science. And revolutionary new developments in biology are providing stronger evidence than ever before of a purposeful creator God. Join us as Dr. Garte shares the latest scientific research with a biblical worldview.
Become a Parshall Partner: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/inthemarket/partners
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:00):
Hi there. Thanks so much for downloading this particular broadcast
of In the Market with Janet Parshall. And I truly
hope with all my heart that you hear something that
equips edifies, encourage, enlightens, and then in truth, get you
out there in the marketplace of ideas so you can
influence and occupy until he comes. But before you go,
I'd like to tell you about this month's truth tool,
and it very much ties into the marketplace of ideas.
(00:20):
I love Alisa Childers. She is a brilliant Christian apologist,
and she's written a wonderful book called The Deconstruction of Christianity.
Hashtags like deconstruction and evangelical are everywhere, and it really
gives evidence to the fact that there are so many
that are walking away from the faith. It raises the
question why and how do we respond, and what can
we say? What are the roots of this movement? What
(00:41):
really is deconstruction? That's what Alisa does in her book.
She answers all of those questions with powerful biblical eloquence.
It's happening more and more. It's even worked its way
into the church. So you and I need to be
prepared to give a reason for the hope that resides
within us, so we can better contend for the faith
so we know what we believe and why we can
believe it. In the market with Janet Parshall is a
(01:03):
listener supported broadcast, and it's my way of saying thank
you when you give financially. So let me encourage you
to get this book, The Deconstruction of Christianity for a
gift of any amount. Just call 877 Janet 58. That's
877 Janet 58. Pledge your gift. And it's my way
of saying thanks so much for supporting the program. You
can also give online, if you prefer, in the market
with Janet Parshall. Scroll all the way down to the
(01:26):
bottom of the page. There's the cover of the book,
the deconstruction of Christianity, clicking on Make Your Gift, and
likewise you'll also get a copy while you're there, linger
a little bit longer and discover what it means to
be a partial partner. That is my ever enlarging circle
of friends that give every single month to support the broadcast.
They give it a level of their own choosing. They
always get the truth tool, but in addition to that,
(01:48):
they get a weekly newsletter that contains some of my
writing and an audio piece that only gets heard by
my partial partners. So prayerfully consider how you'd like to
support this program, and let me say thank you in advance.
877 Janet 58 877 Janet 58 or online at in
the market with Janet Parshall. Thank you and please enjoy
(02:08):
the broadcast. Hi, friends. This is Janet Parshall and I
want to welcome you to the best in the market.
Today's program is prerecorded so our phone lines are not open.
But I do hope you'll enjoy today's edition of The
Best of In the Market with Janet Parshall.
S2 (02:27):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (02:29):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (02:31):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S3 (02:33):
Extremely rare safety move by a.
S5 (02:36):
17 years the Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S3 (02:41):
Over the past decade. Hi, friends.
S1 (02:55):
Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. Thank you
so much for choosing to spend the hour with me. Well,
you hear it. You hear it. Every day we start
a broadcast. That's the cacophony of the marketplace of ideas.
And that's exactly where Jesus told us to go. Don't
believe me? Check out the private conversation that we were
given privilege to peer into between Jesus and His Father
in John 17. He doesn't want us taken out of
(03:15):
the world. He wants us to be sanctified by His Word.
So when we get out in that marketplace, you're going
to hear a lot of conversations about a lot of things.
And one of the most frequently visited booths out there
in the marketplace of ideas is this question. And I
think it's actually a false presupposition, but it's a question
nonetheless that many have grappled with for quite some period
(03:36):
of time. And it's a question that can often keep
people from the foot of the cross that somehow it's
either faith or reason. Or, put it another way, Christianity
and science, but that the two are mutually exclusive. They
cannot coexist. Now, that doesn't make any sense to me,
because first and foremost, the God of all creation made
all of the methodologies in which we do exploration of
(03:57):
his world. That's why Romans one tells us that we're
really without excuse. The heavens declare his glory. All the
evidence is around us of a natural world full of
order and purpose. But really and truly, to this day,
there are still some that think if you come to
faith in Christ, you put your brains in a shoebox,
slide them under the bed. You never use them again. Ah,
why do I say so often on this program that
(04:17):
we are here to help you think critically and biblically.
And that, my friend, is not a multiple choice test.
When you come to faith in Christ, not only is
your heart renewed, but your mind is transformed. The Bible
tells us actually to gird our mind. We're supposed to
exercise it, use it, and to understand so we can
better contend for the faith. And quite honestly, it helps
(04:37):
us make more sense of the world around us. And
when we're sharing the privilege, the humbling privilege of sharing
the gospel message, knowing how people think, why there's order
and form and purpose and substance out there, I think
is part of the eloquence of the gospel, and we
don't want to step back from it. So I'm very
excited to spend the next hour with Doctor Seymour Gart.
He is a PhD and his credentials are fabulous. We've
(05:01):
had the privilege of having Sy on the program before.
And by the way, he has an endorsement from one
of our good friends who's on this program regularly. And
that's Doctor Rana, who said of Sy, a devout Christian
and a highly accomplished biochemist, Sieghart has become one of
the most important voices in the science faith conversation today.
That'll get your attention. And that's why I'm thrilled that
he has a brand new book called called Beyond Evolution
(05:23):
How New Discoveries in the Science of Life Point to God. Now,
let me give you the full C.V., if I can,
because this is a very impressive man, and I'm so
thankful that he's also a great contender for the faith.
He has his PhD in biochemistry. He's the author of
the award winning book, The Work of His Hands A
Scientist's Journey from Atheism to Faith and science, and Faith
in Harmony. Contemplations on a Distilled Doxology. Had the privilege
(05:47):
of talking with Sy about that last year. He has
been a tenured professor at New York University, Rutgers University,
the University of Pittsburgh Division director at the center for
Scientific Review of the NIH, the National Institutes of Health,
and interim Vice president for research at Uniformed Services University
of the Health Services. He's published more than 200 peer
reviewed scientific papers. That is significant if you know anything
(06:09):
about the scientific community. What it means is you put
it out there and then your peers get to beat
it up. They either lift it up or they beat
it up, and they're going to review everything you've written
and see if it passes scientific scrutiny. He's got 200
of those, which says something about his gravitas inside the
scientific community, by the way. He's also, by the way,
written for. He's written on science and Christian faith and
(06:30):
periodicals like Christianity Today, Premier Christianity Perspectives and Science and
Christian Faith. He's been on multiple media outlets. He currently
serves as editor in chief of the American Scientific Affiliation,
online quarterly magazine God and Nature, and also as vice
president for the Washington, DC Metro chapter of ASA. That
is the American Scientific Affiliation. He also served as a
(06:51):
member of the Board of Advisors on the John Templeton Foundation.
Doctor Garth converted to Christianity from atheism in his middle years,
and he's now a certified lay servant in the United
Methodist Church in Rockville, Maryland. We get to spend the
entire hour with Cy talking about his new book, Beyond
Evolution How New Discoveries in the Science of Life Point
(07:11):
to God. Hello, neighbor. It's nice to have you here.
Emanating from Washington, DC. It's good to talk to a mainlander,
and I thank you so much for coming back on
the program. And congratulations again on the new book, because
so much of the book revolves around this thesis that, Ken,
science and religion be harmonized and particularly can the harmonization
be found through the topic of evolution? You're the perfect
(07:33):
petri dish, no pun intended to be able to talk
to you about this. And let me start by your faith.
You did not come to faith in Christ until your
middle years. I'm going to guess that your passion for
science superseded your knowledge of Christ. So tell me a
little bit about your life, because at one point you
actually used the word atheist to describe yourself And in retrospect,
would you call yourself an agnostic or an atheist? And
(07:55):
if you're an atheist, were you mad at God? Or
you just simply didn't figure he was worth the time
of day?
S6 (08:01):
Well, first of all, excuse me. First of all, Janet,
let me say thank you for that wonderful introduction to
the topic. Uh, and I really am happy to be
back talking with you. I had a wonderful time last time,
and I'm expecting the same now. Thank you. As to
your question, um, neither of the two. I was raised
(08:21):
in a very militant atheist family, so I knew nothing
about God. All I knew about God was that he
was a unreal imaginary being who was used by the capitalists.
Because my parents were not only atheists, they were also
communists to oppress people. So I had no thoughts about
(08:42):
God at all other than it's it's it's just nonsense,
a fantasy, you know, sky fairy, all that stuff. So
I had a long way to go to where I
am now, where I consider myself a very faithful, devout Christian, um,
and owe everything to the mercy and grace of Jesus Christ. Now,
(09:03):
how did I get there? Well, um, I was definitely
an atheist, not an agnostic, but I did eventually become
an agnostic when the science that I was learning in school.
First I was studying chemistry, and then I switched to
biochemistry in graduate school. And much of that science, which
I loved, it was fascinating, fascinating and interesting. But much
(09:26):
of that kind of went against my original philosophy of
materialism and pure naturalism. That includes things like quantum mechanics
and other things in physics and chemistry. And I started wondering,
maybe there's something else, maybe there's something more than just,
you know, the natural materialistic reality.
S1 (09:48):
What a great place. It's like you rehearsed this. What
a perfect place to take a break. So we'll keep
the rest of the answer in suspension. We'll get the
rest of it on the other side of the break.
What a privilege to spend the hour with. And I
think fuzz is absolutely spot on here. One of the
most important voices in the science faith conversation today. His
new book certainly reflects that. It's called Beyond Evolution How
(10:08):
New Discoveries in the Science of Life Point to God.
Back after this. The word deconstruction is everywhere, but few
people understand what it actually means. That's why I've chosen
the deconstruction of Christianity as this month's truth tool. Learn
(10:30):
how to answer the questions of those leaving the faith
with graceful speech seasoned with salt. As for your copy
of the Deconstruction of Christianity, when you give a gift
of any amount in the market, call 877 Janet 58.
That's 877 Janet 58 or go to in the market
with Janet Parshall. Doctor Sieghart is with us beyond evolution.
(10:53):
His brand new book is absolutely fascinating, by the way,
how new discoveries in the Science of Life point to God.
And I really think it's so germane to the content
of this book to be able to have you here.
Size story. So again, raised in a home that was
ardently atheistic and communistic and obviously that goes hand in hand.
And yet he gets involved in science. God puts that
(11:15):
passion in his heart. He doesn't know that who placed
it there yet. And as he starts looking at the
scientific world around him, he begins the evolution, no pun intended,
from atheist to agnostic inside. That's where the story stopped
for the break. I'd love for you to pick it
up there.
S6 (11:29):
Well, yeah, I was talking about, you know, the physics
and chemistry I was learning. But when I started learning
the details of biology, the biochemistry, how life works, that
really threw me for a loop because it was I mean,
I used to have chills up and down my spine
when I learned about how proteins are made. It's just incredible.
And I discuss that a lot in this book, and
(11:52):
I go into some detail for those who are interested.
So yeah, so I became I just I just thought
there was something else. And of course, as I grew
and I became a young man, I mean, there were
other things that didn't quite jive with being an atheist.
And that is simple things like beauty, love, you know,
all the human stuff that is not explained by science
(12:12):
at all. So I got to the point where I
was thinking, okay, so there is something else. I never
thought that that would be God or Jesus. I just
didn't know what it was. And I stayed that way
for a very long time, uh, through my early adulthood.
And but what was happening was I was also having
dreams that I now know came directly from the Holy
(12:36):
Spirit and that were changing me very slowly and, you know,
with some, uh, difficulty. But there was a point finally,
when I had an experience, uh, that was so dramatic
and so clearly from the other world, uh, that I
realized that there is this there is truth to this
(12:58):
idea of God. And I became a believer in Jesus Christ.
And that wasn't I was I was in my early
middle age by that time. And I talk about that
in my first book, uh, the Works of his Hands.
I have the the details of that experience.
S1 (13:15):
In that book, and I recommend it, my friends, to
you to be able to read that. It's just it's
such a compelling story. A couple of quick just follow
up questions. And it has nothing to do with biology,
but everything to do with interpersonal dynamics. Were your parents
still alive, and did you tell them that you had
discovered Jesus? And if you did, what was their reaction?
S6 (13:34):
No, they were not. And because I was already in
my early 60s when this happened and they had both
passed on. Yeah.
S1 (13:43):
Wow. Well, so then it's the. Please go ahead.
S6 (13:46):
I'm sorry. I was going to say I had been
thinking about it. I had gone to church a few times.
I had, uh, I had a friend who was a Christian,
and she brought me to a church, and I had
some other things where I started looking at the Gospels. Um,
didn't really understand them well, but they look very interesting
to me. So it was a slow that part was
(14:08):
a slow process. But the actual moment when I said
out loud, I believe and I knew that I did,
which was an incredible experience, uh, came after one of
these very striking experiences I had directly from the Holy Spirit. And, uh, again,
that would take a lot of time to describe, but
(14:30):
I do have it described in that book the works
of his hands. And it was from that moment on, uh,
there was no question that I was a believer and
would always be.
S1 (14:41):
So I have to ask this question because it really
is reflected in what you write about in your newest book,
Beyond Evolution. And I'm sure you were discerning and discreet
with whom you would have these conversations. But if there
is this perceived animosity between science and faith, did you
tell your friends, your peers in the scientific community, or
did you keep that closeted? Because again, uh oh, wait
(15:03):
a minute. Maybe now he's got, you know, he's given
up his intellect because he's chosen faith instead.
S6 (15:10):
Yeah, that's a great question. And the answer is yes.
I kept it closeted for several years. Partly was because
I didn't know what to do about it. I had
I was not a member of a church. I didn't
know what church to join. Nobody that I knew was
a Christian who was a scientist. And I didn't tell
anybody because I didn't know what to tell them. And,
(15:32):
you know, I did. What I did do was I
began reading the Bible seriously, and especially, you know, the
Gospels and Paul's letters. And then I went back into
the rest of the Bible. And, you know, that was
an amazing experience. And I began to understand what the
whole thing was all about. Um, but, you know, it
(15:52):
started with understanding that Jesus loves me. And that was
the message he gave me. Uh, while I was sitting
alone in my car on a long trip. And, uh,
I understood that, and I believed it. And to this day,
I give thanks because his blessings are unlimited at this point.
S1 (16:12):
What an amazing testimony. Sam, there's oh, so much more
to it. So if you want to read the rest
of the story, hat tip to Paul Harvey, pick up
his book, The Works of His Hand. A Scientist's Journey
from atheism to Faith. It is profound, particularly for those
among you who are listening all across the country, who
have a passion for science and just somehow think that
you cannot be both. You cannot have one foot in
(16:32):
the world of science and one foot in the world
of Christianity because they were at war with one another,
which they clearly are not, and the linchpin very often.
And this is something you address in Beyond Evolution. PSI
is that somehow, for whatever reason, evolution seems to be
the dividing rod here, which I find it interesting. And
you make a statement which I underline in the book,
which I thought was fascinating, that the propensity for atheism
(16:54):
is particularly high among biochemists. Why is that?
S6 (16:59):
Well, it's high among biologists in general. And I think
the reason is related to what you just said, the
idea that many biologists have, and also also many members
of the public, is that evolution explains everything you need
to know about life. There's no need for to, you know,
(17:20):
think of a divine being, a creator. Evolution explains it all.
And the main message of my book, the my new
book Beyond Evolution, is, first of all, that's not true.
Evolution has nothing to do with atheism.
S1 (17:36):
Exactly right. It is absolutely a riveting and a fascinating book.
If you are even a thimbleful interested in this dialogue
about science and faith, this is the book for you
to read. But also, more importantly, it's just so encouraging
to read. As I writes in this book about the
things you can't see with the naked eye. And yet
God's hand is revealed even in the DNA in the cell.
(17:57):
That's just absolutely amazing. The wonders of his hands for sure.
Back with cigar right after this. We have the privilege
of spending the hour with Doctor Seymour Gartside. He currently,
(18:18):
by the way, serves as editor in chief of the
American Scientific Affiliation online quarterly magazine called God and Nature,
and also as vice president for the Washington, DC Metro
chapter of ASA. He also serves as a member of
the Board of Advisors of the John Templeton Foundation. He
joins us today because he's got another book and there
isn't a book he's written I written. I wouldn't recommend,
(18:39):
but this is the latest. It's called Beyond Evolution How
New Discoveries in the Science of Life point to God.
And I just want to give you all this disclaimer.
There's so much richness in this book. There's no way
I'm going to cover it in toto in this hour.
So if I can just tweak your curiosity for you
to get a copy of the book, I will have
done my job. So just know that there's a million
more things to be said, even with the questions and
(19:00):
the gift of size time. So you write about and
I'm so glad you did The Evolution of Evolution, which
is a super title for a chapter, by the way.
And you know, when you think back to Charles Darwin,
I think this man didn't even have an electron microscope. Okay.
And then Stephen Gould goes from a tree to a bush.
So there's all kinds of changes constantly going on in evolution.
Tell me from a scientist perspective about all of the changes,
(19:22):
just the medical, the scientific advances rather that we have
today constantly refine and put the picture back in a refocus,
do they not?
S6 (19:30):
Yes. I mean, that's true for all of science. Science
is not constant. It's changing all the time. Now, Interestingly enough, however,
evolution was a real exception to that for a very
long time. There was one type of evolutionary theory called
neo-darwinism or the modern synthesis it was called, which stayed
(19:51):
pretty constant for many decades. That has now stopped finally,
and a lot of new information is coming out. And
the current theory of evolution looks nothing like what a
lot of people think evolution says. Just to give you
a rough idea of the extent of this, recently a
(20:14):
book was published by MIT press. So, you know, a
scientific book written and edited by scientists. I don't think
any of them are Christians or religious in any way.
They're all mainstream scientists. The title of the book is
Evolution on Purpose. Now, great title. That sentence is pure heresy.
(20:38):
If you had said it ten years ago, people would
have said, no, no, no, that's impossible. No such thing
as purpose in biology. Well guess what? Yes there is.
It's full. Biology is full of purpose. It's full of purpose.
It's full of agency. And even more amazing. It's full
of cognition. We are not the only creatures who are cognitive.
(21:01):
Bacteria have cognition. And this is a major, a major
development in the science of biology. I'm not talking about
anything mystical or, you know, outside of strict science and, uh,
defined by, you know, peer reviewed publications, as you mentioned
at the beginning. And we are now finding things this
(21:21):
is what I mean by new discoveries, which are really
not able to be explained by the laws of chemistry
and physics that we know. Uh, and there's a lot
of other stuff in biology, like the origin of life
that also cannot be explained by physics and chemistry we know.
So anyway, that's that's one major aspect of this book.
(21:45):
But the other one, aside from all the changes in
evolutionary theory which you mentioned. The other thing I want
to point out and make, make it as clear as
I can, and I have another chapter about this as well,
is that evolution is really not worth fighting about. And
that's true for both sides because both sides in the
argument is evolution real or not? Is it anti-biblical? Is
(22:09):
it anti-Christian? Both sides have it wrong. Okay. Christians who
think that evolution is a threat to the to biblical
faith are wrong because evolution says nothing about that. And
in fact, what we now finding is that evolution is
saying things that are very much related to belief in
(22:29):
a divine creator. And those on the other side who
are saying that? Well, evolution proves that there's no God.
You don't need a god. A completely wrong because evolution
does not do that. And a few times where people
will say, well, that can be explained by evolution. If
you're talking about something like human love or the reason
(22:49):
that people are moral or they do, you know, all
these things which are are explained by evolution. These are
not correct. They're what they call just so stories and
they're not scientific at all.
S1 (23:03):
So forgive me. You took a breath. I don't want
to interrupt your train of thought. No.
S6 (23:07):
That's okay. Go ahead.
S1 (23:09):
So my I'm fascinated by, again, people and the interplay
here and the dynamics. And this is more philosophical obviously,
than a biological question, but I'm wondering if the reason
that evolution became such a sticking point is that for
the believer in particular, if you got past Charles Darwin,
the origin of the species, then you moved to his
(23:29):
descent of man. He's at war with God. And so
then people think, did you come up with this system
because the scientific evidence to use a legal standard, there
was a preponderance of evidence there that was indisputable that
there was, in fact, evolution between the species. And so
we climbed out of this primordial ooze and eventually stood
up on our feet and became man. But then when
(23:51):
you have the second book, I keep thinking, but why
would Darwin? I mean, obviously it's a rhetorical question, but
when he writes it, you really the curtain gets parted
and you begin to see a worldview that wasn't just
because of his trips to the Galapagos, but he really
had ought, uh, it seems to me, and wanted to
work out some kind of a theory that exorcised God
(24:12):
out of the equation. Now, that might be reflective of
his particular journey, but that idea has found legs and
it's walked around, no pun intended for Neon's, as you've
talked about before. How do we get past that idea?
In other words, do we have to break it down
in far too simplistic terms and say when we see
changes in the cell. You can call that evolution, but
(24:33):
that is different, for example from macro evolution between species
as opposed to micro evolution, which might portend more the
concept of adaptation than evolution. So let me just throw
all those questions on the table, roll the dice a
little bit and see what you have to say when
we come back. This this is going so fast. I
have so many questions. The book is called Beyond Evolution
(24:53):
How New Discoveries in the Science of Life Point to God,
written by Doctor Sieghart brilliant man, peer reviewed, award winning book.
And he loves Jesus. So he's the emblematic example of
science and religion, not at war back after this. With
(25:14):
so many stations, channels, websites and newspapers to choose from,
sometimes it's hard to uncover the truth. In today's world.
So many voices clamoring for our attention on in the market,
we bring biblical truth into the marketplace of ideas, equipping
you to become a bold voice of truth in this
confused and chaotic culture. Become a partial partner today. Call
877 Janet, 58 or go online to. In the market
(25:36):
with Janet Parshall. If you're just joining us, pull up
a chair and welcome to a fascinating conversation. Trust me,
you are going to want to hear this conversation from
the beginning. Easy to do. Just go to wherever you
find your favorite podcasts. Download in the market with Janet
Parshall put in today's date. This is our one of
today's date, and you will be able to hear this
(25:56):
program at your convenience. We have the privilege of spending
the hour with Doctor Seymour Syed who is friends Gart.
He has a PhD in biochemistry. He has been a
tenured professor at three major universities. He's held leadership positions
at the NIH and Uniformed Services University. He has published
more than 200 peer reviewed scientific papers, five books, as
(26:17):
well as articles on science and Christian faith. He is
a fellow of the American Scientific Affiliation, and serves as
editor in chief of that organization's quarterly online magazine called
God and Nature, and he converted, as we discussed earlier,
and as he discussed more fully in his book, The
Work of His Hands. He is now a certified lay
member of the United Methodist Church. We're discussing his newest
(26:38):
book called Beyond Evolution How New Discoveries in the Science
of Life Point to God. So I kind of threw
a whole bunch of questions at the same time. And
let me just recap, maybe more succinctly, than the way
in which I asked the question. But is the animus
on the faith side? I can't speak for the scientific
community because I didn't live there. But on the faith side,
is it because Darwin kind of pulled back the curtain
(27:00):
and showed his worldview and not his first book, but
on his second book, The Descent of Man? And that
then had people disallow anything he had to say. Or
is it the reality that Darwin and it's. You have
a whole chapter brilliantly written on this, the evolution of evolution,
and how many things now have changed in the world
of thinking about evolution? But is it the idea that
(27:21):
if you believe in macroevolution, changes between the species, then
somehow you negate the Genesis record? And then Darwin writes
the descent of Man. Ipso facto, there's my case, Your Honor.
No more questions. Where does this animus come from?
S6 (27:35):
Well, I think you. I think you're making a good point.
And I would just say that, um, I think the
issue of human evolution is, is really a very important one.
If I may, I just read two lines from this book. I,
I wrote even as an atheist, I had always known
that people were special, much more than just another animal
(27:58):
of the primate variety. But once I became a Christian,
I was able to connect my feeling about the unique
status of human beings to those words in Genesis in
the image of God, he created them. And so what
I'm saying there, and I have a whole chapter on
this issue about humans, human morality, human consciousness. And what
(28:20):
I'm saying is, I do not believe that we can
define the important parts of that about humans and attribute
any of that to evolution. I believe that human beings
are created by God. Now how does that work scientifically? Well,
you know, people will try, as I think I mentioned
(28:42):
just before, will try to explain everything in terms of evolution.
And those are just not it just does not work.
And there are many reasons for that which, you know,
we don't have time to go into. But it there
is no science that says that human beings are just
like any other animal and everything about us, even the
fact even what we're doing right now. I'm talking to you.
(29:05):
You're nowhere near me. I'm using language that no other
animal would ever understand or be able to use, and
we're talking about matters that are beyond anything that can
be explained by evolution. I mean, evolution is in its
best definition is, you know, changes for survival of the fittest.
(29:27):
And you know, it's not allowing me by me talking
to you and you listening and talking back to me.
This is not doing anything for our survival or our
mating behavior or anything else that would be related to
evolution or natural selection. So what I'm saying is that, no, I,
I think you're right. I think that people don't want
(29:48):
to think of themselves as apes, and they're absolutely correct
because they're not neither scientifically nor theologically. I mean, human
beings are special, and we're special because we were, are,
and continue to be a direct creation of our sovereign Lord.
S1 (30:06):
Exactly. So let me pick up on something you just said.
The entire book is fascinating, but I was particularly riveted.
When you do talk about human behavior and consciousness, in fact,
you have a whole chapter to that. I find it
fascinating because what we what you write about, and I
think what we're discovering is how little we know about consciousness.
And you, you quote several brilliant people in this chapter,
(30:26):
basically that saying it's unquantifiable. So there's something transcendent here
about the human consciousness that cannot be found in a laboratory.
If that's true, and you and I both agree, and
I would assume a lot of our listeners agree as well,
the burden of proof doesn't fall on those of us
who believe there's something transcendent about it. You and I
know that that we are spirits in a body, not
(30:48):
a body with a spirit. The onus falls on the
atheist who says there is no God. Then what do
you do with the unquantifiable? How do you handle that?
S6 (30:57):
Well, you're absolutely right. I mean, what the atheists like
to say when I bring these up, these, these issues
up to them. Like, we can't explain consciousness, we can't
explain morality, we can't explain most of the behaviors that
humans engage in. What they say is, well, you're talking
about God of the gaps. You don't know the answer,
but there has to be a scientific answer. And my
(31:19):
response is, well, there has to be an answer. But
who says it has to be what you call science
first of all? As I said before, science is always changing.
If I had told somebody back in 1860 or 1870
that light moves at the same speed, whether you're going
towards it or away from it, it's because time slows
(31:41):
down at the speed of light. They would have looked
at me and said, well, you're crazy. That's insane. What
kind of nonsense is that? Well, it's true, we now
know that's true. That's a basic part of physics, and
that's what science does. Science keeps moving. And my whole
purpose of writing this book is to show people that
what happened with physics back in the turn of the
(32:03):
last century, when Einstein and Planck and all these people
made these amazing discoveries about relativity and quantum mechanics, that's
starting to happen now in biology, because we are now
talking about cells, which are cognitive cells that remember things
single cells, bacteria that are able to sense their environments,
(32:25):
to make decisions, to act together as a group. This
is this sounds crazy, but it is coming from peer
reviewed mainstream scientific literature. And in the book I have
some examples of titles which are incredible. I mean, you
read that part, you say what? This is real science. Yes,
(32:46):
is exactly right.
S1 (32:48):
So when you talk about their the the ability to remember,
let me just clarify for people who are struggling with that,
we're not necessarily claiming that they're sentient creatures, but that
there is something in the way in which they're made
that allows them to hold information. Right?
S6 (33:04):
Yes, yes. And in fact, they are sentient, but not
in the way we are. Yes. They don't have they
don't have sight. They don't hear. They don't taste. Well,
I'm not sure about taste. They may taste, but what
they do is they get chemical signals that come from
all around them, from other organisms, from various chemicals, like
(33:25):
if they if there's a sugar around, they'll sense it
and they'll go and grab it. If there's another, if
there's a dangerous predator, they'll realize it's there because it's
sending signals around. And so there's this whole world, a
submicroscopic world of organisms that are constantly, uh, sensing and
relaying information. And the the cells themselves are able to
(33:49):
take that information and work with it and use it.
And there's some amazing experiments being done on how cells
are able to take information from various places and come
up with strategies the way we do. It's just astounding.
S1 (34:04):
So say to the atheist who sees this, and I'm
sure that there are so many people, to use an
old fashioned word, are gobsmacked when you're describing this and
what's going on at a cellular level. It's just amazing.
How does the atheist have that? Do they just say, well,
that's just the result of advanced evolution that the now
they can remember, they sense a predator, etc. all the
things that you just said, can they just simply default
(34:25):
that and say that's simply the evolution of the cell?
S6 (34:28):
Yes, that's exactly what they say. And in fact, as
I mentioned, many of these scientists doing the I think
all of the scientists doing this work are not are
not theists there. So you know it. Some of it
may be shaking them, but the way I take a
look at these results is I say, okay, we know
that we as human beings have purpose. We know that
(34:49):
we have agency. We actually do things on our own
will unlike anything in physics or chemistry or geology. We
meaning us, humans and all of life, it turns out,
has that same agency. Where did that come from? This.
It doesn't come from chemistry because there's no agency. There's
(35:10):
no purpose. There's no cognition in any chemical. There's none
of that in any physical entity, like a mountain or
a volcano, or the wind or the weather. Everything else
reacts according to what forces act on it, not life.
Life acts on its own. Where did that come from?
(35:31):
It couldn't have evolved because it was there at the
very beginning of life. Well, we don't know where it
came from.
S1 (35:38):
Doesn't this hearken to what our friends at the Discovery
Institute say? That when you're looking at this beautifully made clock,
it it it there's a presupposition there that there had
to be a clock maker, that this didn't randomly fall
into place. All of this purpose design order bespeaks not
chemical reaction, but a creator, an intelligent designer. Because what
(36:01):
you're seeing is the design of the cell, which really says, okay,
you can believe that it's random, it's haphazard, or you
can believe that there's something very transcendent about what you're
looking at.
S6 (36:11):
Well, it's interesting you bring up the Discovery Institute because
I recently had some very interesting conversations with people. From there,
I had an interesting talk at Sean Sean McDowell's channel
with Doug Axe, who is from the Discovery Institute, and
we didn't agree on a lot of things, but we
did agree on a lot of things. And I think
it's I think it's it's this is reflective of a
(36:35):
big change that's coming. And my book, I think, is
trying to herald the change so that people know that,
you know, things are changing rapidly in biology, and it's
important to know this and to take cognizance of it
and to, you know, build it into our theology as
much as we can, because it will help. It will
(36:56):
help bring people into the faith. It will help people
stay in the faith. I my entire purpose, with all
the books I write and everything I do, is to
destroy the myth that you've mentioned several times, which is
that faith in Christ and science are not compatible. That
is the lie of Satan. The biggest lie I know
(37:18):
of of Satan. And we have to fight. I have
to fight. I feel that's my mission in life is
to fight that lie and show that it's not true.
And we're getting the evidence now more and more, and
even from biology.
S1 (37:31):
Wow. So let me take a break. And when we
come back, and again, the conversation's gone far too quickly.
There's so, so, so much in this book. It is. Absolutely.
Even if you have just a passing interest in science,
you're going to find this book riveting. I want to
talk about humans. This is where I find something fascinating.
First of all, just the whole concept of Imago Dei,
the only part of creation made in his image. But
(37:52):
I want to talk about morality and behavior and what
we can learn from science about that, or what science
cannot address. Fascinating new book. It is called Beyond Evolution
How New Discoveries in the Science of Life point to God.
This is why Sy wants to engage. It's pointing not
back to the scientific community, but to the creator himself.
(38:13):
Back after this. We are spending the hour with Doctor
Sieghart and I'm going to quote my friend Rana again,
a devout Christian. This is him describing, say, a devout
Christian and a highly accomplished biochemist, Sieghart has become one
(38:36):
of the most important voices in the science faith conversation today.
And I find just the work that you do sai
so compelling, because what you're simply saying is, honestly, it
is still fashion. Even the heavens declare his glory. So
as we're seeing all of these quantum leaps forward in science,
things that we hadn't seen decades before, they're not pointing
(38:57):
back to the scientific community. They're in fact pointing to God,
which I think is good news. And you're encouraging us
to know these things because in the bigger picture, it
helps us better contend for the faith. So I think
that's fabulous. Now talk to me about human behavior because
and you write about this, which I thought was so
interesting and so compelling. What, if anything, can evolution tell
us about behavior? So take a city like New York.
(39:19):
Not everybody in New York commits murder. Some people in
New York commit murder. If evolution were a thing, why
would some people commit murder and some would not? In
other words, what compels someone to do good and compel
someone to do evil? Can science explain that?
S6 (39:33):
Well, it tries to. And that's where things get really complicated,
is because if you ask atheists these kinds of questions,
they will tell you that, well, of course, evolution explains
human behavior, because after all, you know, mothers take care
of their children. And, well, that's true not only with us,
(39:55):
but also with lots of animals, if not all of them.
So that must have come from evolution. And there are
some behaviors that, you know, may may in fact have
a lot to do with evolution. However, uh, it doesn't
explain everything because there are behaviors that humans do that
are not found anywhere else, and they're usually the extreme
(40:18):
kinds of things that you just mentioned. Murder, for example,
there are other animals who murder. Uh, but, you know,
it's not clear that we do it for the same
reason that they do. And the same thing is true
with love and with, you know, self-sacrifice. Um, there are
there are other animals that self-sacrifice, like bees, but they
(40:40):
do it by instinct. They don't say to themselves, I
don't care about myself. I need to do whatever I
can to protect these people, or my family or my
friends or whatever. They, they it's a conscious decision to
do this. And no other animal does that. I mean,
I have I have a whole section in my second book,
(41:03):
the one, uh, that we talked about last time where
I talk about what other animal does this, and there's
a whole list of things that no other animals do.
So where does that come from? It can't come from evolution.
S1 (41:17):
Yeah, yeah. By the way, let me give the title
for our friends who are curious about that. It's called
Faith in Harmony contemplations on a Distilled Doxology. And that
was published and we it's also in our download for
the podcast. But that is a fabulous book. So let
me just if I can three books now by Doctor
Garth that we need to read the work of His
Hands A Scientist's Journey from Atheism to Faith. The second book,
(41:39):
science and Faith in Harmony contemplations on a Distilled Doxology,
and the one we're talking about today, beyond Evolution how
new discoveries in the science of life point to God.
And by the way, in the back section of Beyond Evolution,
if you're really into molecular biology and cellular structure, he's
got a whole section that goes deep into the details
of this part of the scientific. But he does a
(42:00):
beautiful job of explaining it. So the layperson who doesn't
have a PhD in biochemistry like Doctor Garth does, you
can read this and you can understand that I want
to point that out. And you also have a tremendous
sense of humor because you love to tell a story,
and you create a fable of a conversation between Werner
Heisenberg and Louis Pasteur. For people who don't know, you
have to tell who those people are. And then tell
(42:20):
us a little bit about the fable, because it really
makes an excellent point.
S6 (42:24):
Well, I had a lot of fables in my first book,
the Works of his hands. I only have two in
this one. Uh, that one is one of them. It's
at the end of the book where I'm trying to
sort of sum everything up. And I have this story
where Heisenberg and Pasteur are walking in heaven, and they're
talking about this book and whether it's true or not.
(42:47):
And it I think that's probably all I can say
about it.
S7 (42:51):
But some people like it and some people.
S6 (42:53):
Don't.
S7 (42:54):
So. Oh, well.
S1 (42:55):
I loved it. And of course, what he's not telling
you because he's being extremely humble is that they're talking
about Doctor Gart. So you're going to have to read
the book to see what they say back and forth
about each other. It's just wonderful. You talk about divine
design as the beginning And you. I think that's a
fabulously important note for us to end on because you're
really in talk of, you say that biology declares the
(43:16):
glory of God. That is such a profound point. So
put a capstone on this I and why people should
embrace this conversation, and why there's nothing to fear but
that God is revealing and revealing and revealing himself. Why?
Because he's not willing that any should perish. So of
course he'd make his way known in this life of
a cell, so that the atheist peering into his electron
microscope goes, wait a minute, there's got to be something more.
(43:39):
This isn't just chemistry. This isn't just some innate reaction.
So put the capstone on this and why we as
Christians should be excited about this particular book.
S6 (43:47):
Well, it's it's what you just said is summarized by
that wonderful verse. So they are without excuse. And that's
what God is doing. He is showing us that why
we we have no excuse to to say, no, there's
no God. We can't do that because now we are
learning so much, even in life that God is there
(44:09):
and everything is a divine design. I prefer divine design
to intelligent design because I think God is much more
than intelligent. And that kind of divinity is beyond our comprehension.
S1 (44:22):
I am going to borrow that going forward. I think
you're absolutely spot on. Thank you for that. Sai. Go
to the information page in the market with Janet Parshall.
Click on the red box. It says Program Details and Audio.
You're going to see a wonderful picture of Doctor Garth,
the bio of who he is, a link to his website.
Lots of wonderful things there. And on the right hand
side there's the book Beyond Evolution How New Discoveries in
(44:45):
the Science of Life Point to God. That gives me
goosebumps when you think about it. So I thank you.
Another fabulous, memorable conversation, and may God fling open the
doors of opportunity for you to step into the community,
the world of science, and tell them the good News
of Jesus. Thank you Sai. Thank you friends. We'll see
you next time.
Hi there. Thanks so much for downloading this particular broadcast
of In the Market with Janet Parshall. And I truly
hope with all my heart that you hear something that
equips edifies, encourage, enlightens, and then in truth, get you
out there in the marketplace of ideas so you can
influence and occupy until he comes. But before you go,
I'd like to tell you about this month's truth tool,
and it very much ties into the marketplace of ideas.
(00:20):
I love Alisa Childers. She is a brilliant Christian apologist,
and she's written a wonderful book called The Deconstruction of Christianity.
Hashtags like deconstruction and evangelical are everywhere, and it really
gives evidence to the fact that there are so many
that are walking away from the faith. It raises the
question why and how do we respond, and what can
we say? What are the roots of this movement? What
(00:41):
really is deconstruction? That's what Alisa does in her book.
She answers all of those questions with powerful biblical eloquence.
It's happening more and more. It's even worked its way
into the church. So you and I need to be
prepared to give a reason for the hope that resides
within us, so we can better contend for the faith
so we know what we believe and why we can
believe it. In the market with Janet Parshall is a
(01:03):
listener supported broadcast, and it's my way of saying thank
you when you give financially. So let me encourage you
to get this book, The Deconstruction of Christianity for a
gift of any amount. Just call 877 Janet 58. That's
877 Janet 58. Pledge your gift. And it's my way
of saying thanks so much for supporting the program. You
can also give online, if you prefer, in the market
with Janet Parshall. Scroll all the way down to the
(01:26):
bottom of the page. There's the cover of the book,
the deconstruction of Christianity, clicking on Make Your Gift, and
likewise you'll also get a copy while you're there, linger
a little bit longer and discover what it means to
be a partial partner. That is my ever enlarging circle
of friends that give every single month to support the broadcast.
They give it a level of their own choosing. They
always get the truth tool, but in addition to that,
(01:48):
they get a weekly newsletter that contains some of my
writing and an audio piece that only gets heard by
my partial partners. So prayerfully consider how you'd like to
support this program, and let me say thank you in advance.
877 Janet 58 877 Janet 58 or online at in
the market with Janet Parshall. Thank you and please enjoy
(02:08):
the broadcast. Hi, friends. This is Janet Parshall and I
want to welcome you to the best in the market.
Today's program is prerecorded so our phone lines are not open.
But I do hope you'll enjoy today's edition of The
Best of In the Market with Janet Parshall.
S2 (02:27):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (02:29):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (02:31):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S3 (02:33):
Extremely rare safety move by a.
S5 (02:36):
17 years the Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S3 (02:41):
Over the past decade. Hi, friends.
S1 (02:55):
Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. Thank you
so much for choosing to spend the hour with me. Well,
you hear it. You hear it. Every day we start
a broadcast. That's the cacophony of the marketplace of ideas.
And that's exactly where Jesus told us to go. Don't
believe me? Check out the private conversation that we were
given privilege to peer into between Jesus and His Father
in John 17. He doesn't want us taken out of
(03:15):
the world. He wants us to be sanctified by His Word.
So when we get out in that marketplace, you're going
to hear a lot of conversations about a lot of things.
And one of the most frequently visited booths out there
in the marketplace of ideas is this question. And I
think it's actually a false presupposition, but it's a question
nonetheless that many have grappled with for quite some period
(03:36):
of time. And it's a question that can often keep
people from the foot of the cross that somehow it's
either faith or reason. Or, put it another way, Christianity
and science, but that the two are mutually exclusive. They
cannot coexist. Now, that doesn't make any sense to me,
because first and foremost, the God of all creation made
all of the methodologies in which we do exploration of
(03:57):
his world. That's why Romans one tells us that we're
really without excuse. The heavens declare his glory. All the
evidence is around us of a natural world full of
order and purpose. But really and truly, to this day,
there are still some that think if you come to
faith in Christ, you put your brains in a shoebox,
slide them under the bed. You never use them again. Ah,
why do I say so often on this program that
(04:17):
we are here to help you think critically and biblically.
And that, my friend, is not a multiple choice test.
When you come to faith in Christ, not only is
your heart renewed, but your mind is transformed. The Bible
tells us actually to gird our mind. We're supposed to
exercise it, use it, and to understand so we can
better contend for the faith. And quite honestly, it helps
(04:37):
us make more sense of the world around us. And
when we're sharing the privilege, the humbling privilege of sharing
the gospel message, knowing how people think, why there's order
and form and purpose and substance out there, I think
is part of the eloquence of the gospel, and we
don't want to step back from it. So I'm very
excited to spend the next hour with Doctor Seymour Gart.
He is a PhD and his credentials are fabulous. We've
(05:01):
had the privilege of having Sy on the program before.
And by the way, he has an endorsement from one
of our good friends who's on this program regularly. And
that's Doctor Rana, who said of Sy, a devout Christian
and a highly accomplished biochemist, Sieghart has become one of
the most important voices in the science faith conversation today.
That'll get your attention. And that's why I'm thrilled that
he has a brand new book called called Beyond Evolution
(05:23):
How New Discoveries in the Science of Life Point to God. Now,
let me give you the full C.V., if I can,
because this is a very impressive man, and I'm so
thankful that he's also a great contender for the faith.
He has his PhD in biochemistry. He's the author of
the award winning book, The Work of His Hands A
Scientist's Journey from Atheism to Faith and science, and Faith
in Harmony. Contemplations on a Distilled Doxology. Had the privilege
(05:47):
of talking with Sy about that last year. He has
been a tenured professor at New York University, Rutgers University,
the University of Pittsburgh Division director at the center for
Scientific Review of the NIH, the National Institutes of Health,
and interim Vice president for research at Uniformed Services University
of the Health Services. He's published more than 200 peer
reviewed scientific papers. That is significant if you know anything
(06:09):
about the scientific community. What it means is you put
it out there and then your peers get to beat
it up. They either lift it up or they beat
it up, and they're going to review everything you've written
and see if it passes scientific scrutiny. He's got 200
of those, which says something about his gravitas inside the
scientific community, by the way. He's also, by the way,
written for. He's written on science and Christian faith and
(06:30):
periodicals like Christianity Today, Premier Christianity Perspectives and Science and
Christian Faith. He's been on multiple media outlets. He currently
serves as editor in chief of the American Scientific Affiliation,
online quarterly magazine God and Nature, and also as vice
president for the Washington, DC Metro chapter of ASA. That
is the American Scientific Affiliation. He also served as a
(06:51):
member of the Board of Advisors on the John Templeton Foundation.
Doctor Garth converted to Christianity from atheism in his middle years,
and he's now a certified lay servant in the United
Methodist Church in Rockville, Maryland. We get to spend the
entire hour with Cy talking about his new book, Beyond
Evolution How New Discoveries in the Science of Life Point
(07:11):
to God. Hello, neighbor. It's nice to have you here.
Emanating from Washington, DC. It's good to talk to a mainlander,
and I thank you so much for coming back on
the program. And congratulations again on the new book, because
so much of the book revolves around this thesis that, Ken,
science and religion be harmonized and particularly can the harmonization
be found through the topic of evolution? You're the perfect
(07:33):
petri dish, no pun intended to be able to talk
to you about this. And let me start by your faith.
You did not come to faith in Christ until your
middle years. I'm going to guess that your passion for
science superseded your knowledge of Christ. So tell me a
little bit about your life, because at one point you
actually used the word atheist to describe yourself And in retrospect,
would you call yourself an agnostic or an atheist? And
(07:55):
if you're an atheist, were you mad at God? Or
you just simply didn't figure he was worth the time
of day?
S6 (08:01):
Well, first of all, excuse me. First of all, Janet,
let me say thank you for that wonderful introduction to
the topic. Uh, and I really am happy to be
back talking with you. I had a wonderful time last time,
and I'm expecting the same now. Thank you. As to
your question, um, neither of the two. I was raised
(08:21):
in a very militant atheist family, so I knew nothing
about God. All I knew about God was that he
was a unreal imaginary being who was used by the capitalists.
Because my parents were not only atheists, they were also
communists to oppress people. So I had no thoughts about
(08:42):
God at all other than it's it's it's just nonsense,
a fantasy, you know, sky fairy, all that stuff. So
I had a long way to go to where I
am now, where I consider myself a very faithful, devout Christian, um,
and owe everything to the mercy and grace of Jesus Christ. Now,
(09:03):
how did I get there? Well, um, I was definitely
an atheist, not an agnostic, but I did eventually become
an agnostic when the science that I was learning in school.
First I was studying chemistry, and then I switched to
biochemistry in graduate school. And much of that science, which
I loved, it was fascinating, fascinating and interesting. But much
(09:26):
of that kind of went against my original philosophy of
materialism and pure naturalism. That includes things like quantum mechanics
and other things in physics and chemistry. And I started wondering,
maybe there's something else, maybe there's something more than just,
you know, the natural materialistic reality.
S1 (09:48):
What a great place. It's like you rehearsed this. What
a perfect place to take a break. So we'll keep
the rest of the answer in suspension. We'll get the
rest of it on the other side of the break.
What a privilege to spend the hour with. And I
think fuzz is absolutely spot on here. One of the
most important voices in the science faith conversation today. His
new book certainly reflects that. It's called Beyond Evolution How
(10:08):
New Discoveries in the Science of Life Point to God.
Back after this. The word deconstruction is everywhere, but few
people understand what it actually means. That's why I've chosen
the deconstruction of Christianity as this month's truth tool. Learn
(10:30):
how to answer the questions of those leaving the faith
with graceful speech seasoned with salt. As for your copy
of the Deconstruction of Christianity, when you give a gift
of any amount in the market, call 877 Janet 58.
That's 877 Janet 58 or go to in the market
with Janet Parshall. Doctor Sieghart is with us beyond evolution.
(10:53):
His brand new book is absolutely fascinating, by the way,
how new discoveries in the Science of Life point to God.
And I really think it's so germane to the content
of this book to be able to have you here.
Size story. So again, raised in a home that was
ardently atheistic and communistic and obviously that goes hand in hand.
And yet he gets involved in science. God puts that
(11:15):
passion in his heart. He doesn't know that who placed
it there yet. And as he starts looking at the
scientific world around him, he begins the evolution, no pun intended,
from atheist to agnostic inside. That's where the story stopped
for the break. I'd love for you to pick it
up there.
S6 (11:29):
Well, yeah, I was talking about, you know, the physics
and chemistry I was learning. But when I started learning
the details of biology, the biochemistry, how life works, that
really threw me for a loop because it was I mean,
I used to have chills up and down my spine
when I learned about how proteins are made. It's just incredible.
And I discuss that a lot in this book, and
(11:52):
I go into some detail for those who are interested.
So yeah, so I became I just I just thought
there was something else. And of course, as I grew
and I became a young man, I mean, there were
other things that didn't quite jive with being an atheist.
And that is simple things like beauty, love, you know,
all the human stuff that is not explained by science
(12:12):
at all. So I got to the point where I
was thinking, okay, so there is something else. I never
thought that that would be God or Jesus. I just
didn't know what it was. And I stayed that way
for a very long time, uh, through my early adulthood.
And but what was happening was I was also having
dreams that I now know came directly from the Holy
(12:36):
Spirit and that were changing me very slowly and, you know,
with some, uh, difficulty. But there was a point finally,
when I had an experience, uh, that was so dramatic
and so clearly from the other world, uh, that I
realized that there is this there is truth to this
(12:58):
idea of God. And I became a believer in Jesus Christ.
And that wasn't I was I was in my early
middle age by that time. And I talk about that
in my first book, uh, the Works of his Hands.
I have the the details of that experience.
S1 (13:15):
In that book, and I recommend it, my friends, to
you to be able to read that. It's just it's
such a compelling story. A couple of quick just follow
up questions. And it has nothing to do with biology,
but everything to do with interpersonal dynamics. Were your parents
still alive, and did you tell them that you had
discovered Jesus? And if you did, what was their reaction?
S6 (13:34):
No, they were not. And because I was already in
my early 60s when this happened and they had both
passed on. Yeah.
S1 (13:43):
Wow. Well, so then it's the. Please go ahead.
S6 (13:46):
I'm sorry. I was going to say I had been
thinking about it. I had gone to church a few times.
I had, uh, I had a friend who was a Christian,
and she brought me to a church, and I had
some other things where I started looking at the Gospels. Um,
didn't really understand them well, but they look very interesting
to me. So it was a slow that part was
(14:08):
a slow process. But the actual moment when I said
out loud, I believe and I knew that I did,
which was an incredible experience, uh, came after one of
these very striking experiences I had directly from the Holy Spirit. And, uh, again,
that would take a lot of time to describe, but
(14:30):
I do have it described in that book the works
of his hands. And it was from that moment on, uh,
there was no question that I was a believer and
would always be.
S1 (14:41):
So I have to ask this question because it really
is reflected in what you write about in your newest book,
Beyond Evolution. And I'm sure you were discerning and discreet
with whom you would have these conversations. But if there
is this perceived animosity between science and faith, did you
tell your friends, your peers in the scientific community, or
did you keep that closeted? Because again, uh oh, wait
(15:03):
a minute. Maybe now he's got, you know, he's given
up his intellect because he's chosen faith instead.
S6 (15:10):
Yeah, that's a great question. And the answer is yes.
I kept it closeted for several years. Partly was because
I didn't know what to do about it. I had
I was not a member of a church. I didn't
know what church to join. Nobody that I knew was
a Christian who was a scientist. And I didn't tell
anybody because I didn't know what to tell them. And,
(15:32):
you know, I did. What I did do was I
began reading the Bible seriously, and especially, you know, the
Gospels and Paul's letters. And then I went back into
the rest of the Bible. And, you know, that was
an amazing experience. And I began to understand what the
whole thing was all about. Um, but, you know, it
(15:52):
started with understanding that Jesus loves me. And that was
the message he gave me. Uh, while I was sitting
alone in my car on a long trip. And, uh,
I understood that, and I believed it. And to this day,
I give thanks because his blessings are unlimited at this point.
S1 (16:12):
What an amazing testimony. Sam, there's oh, so much more
to it. So if you want to read the rest
of the story, hat tip to Paul Harvey, pick up
his book, The Works of His Hand. A Scientist's Journey
from atheism to Faith. It is profound, particularly for those
among you who are listening all across the country, who
have a passion for science and just somehow think that
you cannot be both. You cannot have one foot in
(16:32):
the world of science and one foot in the world
of Christianity because they were at war with one another,
which they clearly are not, and the linchpin very often.
And this is something you address in Beyond Evolution. PSI
is that somehow, for whatever reason, evolution seems to be
the dividing rod here, which I find it interesting. And
you make a statement which I underline in the book,
which I thought was fascinating, that the propensity for atheism
(16:54):
is particularly high among biochemists. Why is that?
S6 (16:59):
Well, it's high among biologists in general. And I think
the reason is related to what you just said, the
idea that many biologists have, and also also many members
of the public, is that evolution explains everything you need
to know about life. There's no need for to, you know,
(17:20):
think of a divine being, a creator. Evolution explains it all.
And the main message of my book, the my new
book Beyond Evolution, is, first of all, that's not true.
Evolution has nothing to do with atheism.
S1 (17:36):
Exactly right. It is absolutely a riveting and a fascinating book.
If you are even a thimbleful interested in this dialogue
about science and faith, this is the book for you
to read. But also, more importantly, it's just so encouraging
to read. As I writes in this book about the
things you can't see with the naked eye. And yet
God's hand is revealed even in the DNA in the cell.
(17:57):
That's just absolutely amazing. The wonders of his hands for sure.
Back with cigar right after this. We have the privilege
of spending the hour with Doctor Seymour Gartside. He currently,
(18:18):
by the way, serves as editor in chief of the
American Scientific Affiliation online quarterly magazine called God and Nature,
and also as vice president for the Washington, DC Metro
chapter of ASA. He also serves as a member of
the Board of Advisors of the John Templeton Foundation. He
joins us today because he's got another book and there
isn't a book he's written I written. I wouldn't recommend,
(18:39):
but this is the latest. It's called Beyond Evolution How
New Discoveries in the Science of Life point to God.
And I just want to give you all this disclaimer.
There's so much richness in this book. There's no way
I'm going to cover it in toto in this hour.
So if I can just tweak your curiosity for you
to get a copy of the book, I will have
done my job. So just know that there's a million
more things to be said, even with the questions and
(19:00):
the gift of size time. So you write about and
I'm so glad you did The Evolution of Evolution, which
is a super title for a chapter, by the way.
And you know, when you think back to Charles Darwin,
I think this man didn't even have an electron microscope. Okay.
And then Stephen Gould goes from a tree to a bush.
So there's all kinds of changes constantly going on in evolution.
Tell me from a scientist perspective about all of the changes,
(19:22):
just the medical, the scientific advances rather that we have
today constantly refine and put the picture back in a refocus,
do they not?
S6 (19:30):
Yes. I mean, that's true for all of science. Science
is not constant. It's changing all the time. Now, Interestingly enough, however,
evolution was a real exception to that for a very
long time. There was one type of evolutionary theory called
neo-darwinism or the modern synthesis it was called, which stayed
(19:51):
pretty constant for many decades. That has now stopped finally,
and a lot of new information is coming out. And
the current theory of evolution looks nothing like what a
lot of people think evolution says. Just to give you
a rough idea of the extent of this, recently a
(20:14):
book was published by MIT press. So, you know, a
scientific book written and edited by scientists. I don't think
any of them are Christians or religious in any way.
They're all mainstream scientists. The title of the book is
Evolution on Purpose. Now, great title. That sentence is pure heresy.
(20:38):
If you had said it ten years ago, people would
have said, no, no, no, that's impossible. No such thing
as purpose in biology. Well guess what? Yes there is.
It's full. Biology is full of purpose. It's full of purpose.
It's full of agency. And even more amazing. It's full
of cognition. We are not the only creatures who are cognitive.
(21:01):
Bacteria have cognition. And this is a major, a major
development in the science of biology. I'm not talking about
anything mystical or, you know, outside of strict science and, uh,
defined by, you know, peer reviewed publications, as you mentioned
at the beginning. And we are now finding things this
(21:21):
is what I mean by new discoveries, which are really
not able to be explained by the laws of chemistry
and physics that we know. Uh, and there's a lot
of other stuff in biology, like the origin of life
that also cannot be explained by physics and chemistry we know.
So anyway, that's that's one major aspect of this book.
(21:45):
But the other one, aside from all the changes in
evolutionary theory which you mentioned. The other thing I want
to point out and make, make it as clear as
I can, and I have another chapter about this as well,
is that evolution is really not worth fighting about. And
that's true for both sides because both sides in the
argument is evolution real or not? Is it anti-biblical? Is
(22:09):
it anti-Christian? Both sides have it wrong. Okay. Christians who
think that evolution is a threat to the to biblical
faith are wrong because evolution says nothing about that. And
in fact, what we now finding is that evolution is
saying things that are very much related to belief in
(22:29):
a divine creator. And those on the other side who
are saying that? Well, evolution proves that there's no God.
You don't need a god. A completely wrong because evolution
does not do that. And a few times where people
will say, well, that can be explained by evolution. If
you're talking about something like human love or the reason
(22:49):
that people are moral or they do, you know, all
these things which are are explained by evolution. These are
not correct. They're what they call just so stories and
they're not scientific at all.
S1 (23:03):
So forgive me. You took a breath. I don't want
to interrupt your train of thought. No.
S6 (23:07):
That's okay. Go ahead.
S1 (23:09):
So my I'm fascinated by, again, people and the interplay
here and the dynamics. And this is more philosophical obviously,
than a biological question, but I'm wondering if the reason
that evolution became such a sticking point is that for
the believer in particular, if you got past Charles Darwin,
the origin of the species, then you moved to his
(23:29):
descent of man. He's at war with God. And so
then people think, did you come up with this system
because the scientific evidence to use a legal standard, there
was a preponderance of evidence there that was indisputable that
there was, in fact, evolution between the species. And so
we climbed out of this primordial ooze and eventually stood
up on our feet and became man. But then when
(23:51):
you have the second book, I keep thinking, but why
would Darwin? I mean, obviously it's a rhetorical question, but
when he writes it, you really the curtain gets parted
and you begin to see a worldview that wasn't just
because of his trips to the Galapagos, but he really
had ought, uh, it seems to me, and wanted to
work out some kind of a theory that exorcised God
(24:12):
out of the equation. Now, that might be reflective of
his particular journey, but that idea has found legs and
it's walked around, no pun intended for Neon's, as you've
talked about before. How do we get past that idea?
In other words, do we have to break it down
in far too simplistic terms and say when we see
changes in the cell. You can call that evolution, but
(24:33):
that is different, for example from macro evolution between species
as opposed to micro evolution, which might portend more the
concept of adaptation than evolution. So let me just throw
all those questions on the table, roll the dice a
little bit and see what you have to say when
we come back. This this is going so fast. I
have so many questions. The book is called Beyond Evolution
(24:53):
How New Discoveries in the Science of Life Point to God,
written by Doctor Sieghart brilliant man, peer reviewed, award winning book.
And he loves Jesus. So he's the emblematic example of
science and religion, not at war back after this. With
(25:14):
so many stations, channels, websites and newspapers to choose from,
sometimes it's hard to uncover the truth. In today's world.
So many voices clamoring for our attention on in the market,
we bring biblical truth into the marketplace of ideas, equipping
you to become a bold voice of truth in this
confused and chaotic culture. Become a partial partner today. Call
877 Janet, 58 or go online to. In the market
(25:36):
with Janet Parshall. If you're just joining us, pull up
a chair and welcome to a fascinating conversation. Trust me,
you are going to want to hear this conversation from
the beginning. Easy to do. Just go to wherever you
find your favorite podcasts. Download in the market with Janet
Parshall put in today's date. This is our one of
today's date, and you will be able to hear this
(25:56):
program at your convenience. We have the privilege of spending
the hour with Doctor Seymour Syed who is friends Gart.
He has a PhD in biochemistry. He has been a
tenured professor at three major universities. He's held leadership positions
at the NIH and Uniformed Services University. He has published
more than 200 peer reviewed scientific papers, five books, as
(26:17):
well as articles on science and Christian faith. He is
a fellow of the American Scientific Affiliation, and serves as
editor in chief of that organization's quarterly online magazine called
God and Nature, and he converted, as we discussed earlier,
and as he discussed more fully in his book, The
Work of His Hands. He is now a certified lay
member of the United Methodist Church. We're discussing his newest
(26:38):
book called Beyond Evolution How New Discoveries in the Science
of Life Point to God. So I kind of threw
a whole bunch of questions at the same time. And
let me just recap, maybe more succinctly, than the way
in which I asked the question. But is the animus
on the faith side? I can't speak for the scientific
community because I didn't live there. But on the faith side,
is it because Darwin kind of pulled back the curtain
(27:00):
and showed his worldview and not his first book, but
on his second book, The Descent of Man? And that
then had people disallow anything he had to say. Or
is it the reality that Darwin and it's. You have
a whole chapter brilliantly written on this, the evolution of evolution,
and how many things now have changed in the world
of thinking about evolution? But is it the idea that
(27:21):
if you believe in macroevolution, changes between the species, then
somehow you negate the Genesis record? And then Darwin writes
the descent of Man. Ipso facto, there's my case, Your Honor.
No more questions. Where does this animus come from?
S6 (27:35):
Well, I think you. I think you're making a good point.
And I would just say that, um, I think the
issue of human evolution is, is really a very important one.
If I may, I just read two lines from this book. I,
I wrote even as an atheist, I had always known
that people were special, much more than just another animal
(27:58):
of the primate variety. But once I became a Christian,
I was able to connect my feeling about the unique
status of human beings to those words in Genesis in
the image of God, he created them. And so what
I'm saying there, and I have a whole chapter on
this issue about humans, human morality, human consciousness. And what
(28:20):
I'm saying is, I do not believe that we can
define the important parts of that about humans and attribute
any of that to evolution. I believe that human beings
are created by God. Now how does that work scientifically? Well,
you know, people will try, as I think I mentioned
(28:42):
just before, will try to explain everything in terms of evolution.
And those are just not it just does not work.
And there are many reasons for that which, you know,
we don't have time to go into. But it there
is no science that says that human beings are just
like any other animal and everything about us, even the
fact even what we're doing right now. I'm talking to you.
(29:05):
You're nowhere near me. I'm using language that no other
animal would ever understand or be able to use, and
we're talking about matters that are beyond anything that can
be explained by evolution. I mean, evolution is in its
best definition is, you know, changes for survival of the fittest.
(29:27):
And you know, it's not allowing me by me talking
to you and you listening and talking back to me.
This is not doing anything for our survival or our
mating behavior or anything else that would be related to
evolution or natural selection. So what I'm saying is that, no, I,
I think you're right. I think that people don't want
(29:48):
to think of themselves as apes, and they're absolutely correct
because they're not neither scientifically nor theologically. I mean, human
beings are special, and we're special because we were, are,
and continue to be a direct creation of our sovereign Lord.
S1 (30:06):
Exactly. So let me pick up on something you just said.
The entire book is fascinating, but I was particularly riveted.
When you do talk about human behavior and consciousness, in fact,
you have a whole chapter to that. I find it
fascinating because what we what you write about, and I
think what we're discovering is how little we know about consciousness.
And you, you quote several brilliant people in this chapter,
(30:26):
basically that saying it's unquantifiable. So there's something transcendent here
about the human consciousness that cannot be found in a laboratory.
If that's true, and you and I both agree, and
I would assume a lot of our listeners agree as well,
the burden of proof doesn't fall on those of us
who believe there's something transcendent about it. You and I
know that that we are spirits in a body, not
(30:48):
a body with a spirit. The onus falls on the
atheist who says there is no God. Then what do
you do with the unquantifiable? How do you handle that?
S6 (30:57):
Well, you're absolutely right. I mean, what the atheists like
to say when I bring these up, these, these issues
up to them. Like, we can't explain consciousness, we can't
explain morality, we can't explain most of the behaviors that
humans engage in. What they say is, well, you're talking
about God of the gaps. You don't know the answer,
but there has to be a scientific answer. And my
(31:19):
response is, well, there has to be an answer. But
who says it has to be what you call science
first of all? As I said before, science is always changing.
If I had told somebody back in 1860 or 1870
that light moves at the same speed, whether you're going
towards it or away from it, it's because time slows
(31:41):
down at the speed of light. They would have looked
at me and said, well, you're crazy. That's insane. What
kind of nonsense is that? Well, it's true, we now
know that's true. That's a basic part of physics, and
that's what science does. Science keeps moving. And my whole
purpose of writing this book is to show people that
what happened with physics back in the turn of the
(32:03):
last century, when Einstein and Planck and all these people
made these amazing discoveries about relativity and quantum mechanics, that's
starting to happen now in biology, because we are now
talking about cells, which are cognitive cells that remember things
single cells, bacteria that are able to sense their environments,
(32:25):
to make decisions, to act together as a group. This
is this sounds crazy, but it is coming from peer
reviewed mainstream scientific literature. And in the book I have
some examples of titles which are incredible. I mean, you
read that part, you say what? This is real science. Yes,
(32:46):
is exactly right.
S1 (32:48):
So when you talk about their the the ability to remember,
let me just clarify for people who are struggling with that,
we're not necessarily claiming that they're sentient creatures, but that
there is something in the way in which they're made
that allows them to hold information. Right?
S6 (33:04):
Yes, yes. And in fact, they are sentient, but not
in the way we are. Yes. They don't have they
don't have sight. They don't hear. They don't taste. Well,
I'm not sure about taste. They may taste, but what
they do is they get chemical signals that come from
all around them, from other organisms, from various chemicals, like
(33:25):
if they if there's a sugar around, they'll sense it
and they'll go and grab it. If there's another, if
there's a dangerous predator, they'll realize it's there because it's
sending signals around. And so there's this whole world, a
submicroscopic world of organisms that are constantly, uh, sensing and
relaying information. And the the cells themselves are able to
(33:49):
take that information and work with it and use it.
And there's some amazing experiments being done on how cells
are able to take information from various places and come
up with strategies the way we do. It's just astounding.
S1 (34:04):
So say to the atheist who sees this, and I'm
sure that there are so many people, to use an
old fashioned word, are gobsmacked when you're describing this and
what's going on at a cellular level. It's just amazing.
How does the atheist have that? Do they just say, well,
that's just the result of advanced evolution that the now
they can remember, they sense a predator, etc. all the
things that you just said, can they just simply default
(34:25):
that and say that's simply the evolution of the cell?
S6 (34:28):
Yes, that's exactly what they say. And in fact, as
I mentioned, many of these scientists doing the I think
all of the scientists doing this work are not are
not theists there. So you know it. Some of it
may be shaking them, but the way I take a
look at these results is I say, okay, we know
that we as human beings have purpose. We know that
(34:49):
we have agency. We actually do things on our own
will unlike anything in physics or chemistry or geology. We
meaning us, humans and all of life, it turns out,
has that same agency. Where did that come from? This.
It doesn't come from chemistry because there's no agency. There's
(35:10):
no purpose. There's no cognition in any chemical. There's none
of that in any physical entity, like a mountain or
a volcano, or the wind or the weather. Everything else
reacts according to what forces act on it, not life.
Life acts on its own. Where did that come from?
(35:31):
It couldn't have evolved because it was there at the
very beginning of life. Well, we don't know where it
came from.
S1 (35:38):
Doesn't this hearken to what our friends at the Discovery
Institute say? That when you're looking at this beautifully made clock,
it it it there's a presupposition there that there had
to be a clock maker, that this didn't randomly fall
into place. All of this purpose design order bespeaks not
chemical reaction, but a creator, an intelligent designer. Because what
(36:01):
you're seeing is the design of the cell, which really says, okay,
you can believe that it's random, it's haphazard, or you
can believe that there's something very transcendent about what you're
looking at.
S6 (36:11):
Well, it's interesting you bring up the Discovery Institute because
I recently had some very interesting conversations with people. From there,
I had an interesting talk at Sean Sean McDowell's channel
with Doug Axe, who is from the Discovery Institute, and
we didn't agree on a lot of things, but we
did agree on a lot of things. And I think
it's I think it's it's this is reflective of a
(36:35):
big change that's coming. And my book, I think, is
trying to herald the change so that people know that,
you know, things are changing rapidly in biology, and it's
important to know this and to take cognizance of it
and to, you know, build it into our theology as
much as we can, because it will help. It will
(36:56):
help bring people into the faith. It will help people
stay in the faith. I my entire purpose, with all
the books I write and everything I do, is to
destroy the myth that you've mentioned several times, which is
that faith in Christ and science are not compatible. That
is the lie of Satan. The biggest lie I know
(37:18):
of of Satan. And we have to fight. I have
to fight. I feel that's my mission in life is
to fight that lie and show that it's not true.
And we're getting the evidence now more and more, and
even from biology.
S1 (37:31):
Wow. So let me take a break. And when we
come back, and again, the conversation's gone far too quickly.
There's so, so, so much in this book. It is. Absolutely.
Even if you have just a passing interest in science,
you're going to find this book riveting. I want to
talk about humans. This is where I find something fascinating.
First of all, just the whole concept of Imago Dei,
the only part of creation made in his image. But
(37:52):
I want to talk about morality and behavior and what
we can learn from science about that, or what science
cannot address. Fascinating new book. It is called Beyond Evolution
How New Discoveries in the Science of Life point to God.
This is why Sy wants to engage. It's pointing not
back to the scientific community, but to the creator himself.
(38:13):
Back after this. We are spending the hour with Doctor
Sieghart and I'm going to quote my friend Rana again,
a devout Christian. This is him describing, say, a devout
Christian and a highly accomplished biochemist, Sieghart has become one
(38:36):
of the most important voices in the science faith conversation today.
And I find just the work that you do sai
so compelling, because what you're simply saying is, honestly, it
is still fashion. Even the heavens declare his glory. So
as we're seeing all of these quantum leaps forward in science,
things that we hadn't seen decades before, they're not pointing
(38:57):
back to the scientific community. They're in fact pointing to God,
which I think is good news. And you're encouraging us
to know these things because in the bigger picture, it
helps us better contend for the faith. So I think
that's fabulous. Now talk to me about human behavior because
and you write about this, which I thought was so
interesting and so compelling. What, if anything, can evolution tell
us about behavior? So take a city like New York.
(39:19):
Not everybody in New York commits murder. Some people in
New York commit murder. If evolution were a thing, why
would some people commit murder and some would not? In
other words, what compels someone to do good and compel
someone to do evil? Can science explain that?
S6 (39:33):
Well, it tries to. And that's where things get really complicated,
is because if you ask atheists these kinds of questions,
they will tell you that, well, of course, evolution explains
human behavior, because after all, you know, mothers take care
of their children. And, well, that's true not only with us,
(39:55):
but also with lots of animals, if not all of them.
So that must have come from evolution. And there are
some behaviors that, you know, may may in fact have
a lot to do with evolution. However, uh, it doesn't
explain everything because there are behaviors that humans do that
are not found anywhere else, and they're usually the extreme
(40:18):
kinds of things that you just mentioned. Murder, for example,
there are other animals who murder. Uh, but, you know,
it's not clear that we do it for the same
reason that they do. And the same thing is true
with love and with, you know, self-sacrifice. Um, there are
there are other animals that self-sacrifice, like bees, but they
(40:40):
do it by instinct. They don't say to themselves, I
don't care about myself. I need to do whatever I
can to protect these people, or my family or my
friends or whatever. They, they it's a conscious decision to
do this. And no other animal does that. I mean,
I have I have a whole section in my second book,
(41:03):
the one, uh, that we talked about last time where
I talk about what other animal does this, and there's
a whole list of things that no other animals do.
So where does that come from? It can't come from evolution.
S1 (41:17):
Yeah, yeah. By the way, let me give the title
for our friends who are curious about that. It's called
Faith in Harmony contemplations on a Distilled Doxology. And that
was published and we it's also in our download for
the podcast. But that is a fabulous book. So let
me just if I can three books now by Doctor
Garth that we need to read the work of His
Hands A Scientist's Journey from Atheism to Faith. The second book,
(41:39):
science and Faith in Harmony contemplations on a Distilled Doxology,
and the one we're talking about today, beyond Evolution how
new discoveries in the science of life point to God.
And by the way, in the back section of Beyond Evolution,
if you're really into molecular biology and cellular structure, he's
got a whole section that goes deep into the details
of this part of the scientific. But he does a
(42:00):
beautiful job of explaining it. So the layperson who doesn't
have a PhD in biochemistry like Doctor Garth does, you
can read this and you can understand that I want
to point that out. And you also have a tremendous
sense of humor because you love to tell a story,
and you create a fable of a conversation between Werner
Heisenberg and Louis Pasteur. For people who don't know, you
have to tell who those people are. And then tell
(42:20):
us a little bit about the fable, because it really
makes an excellent point.
S6 (42:24):
Well, I had a lot of fables in my first book,
the Works of his hands. I only have two in
this one. Uh, that one is one of them. It's
at the end of the book where I'm trying to
sort of sum everything up. And I have this story
where Heisenberg and Pasteur are walking in heaven, and they're
talking about this book and whether it's true or not.
(42:47):
And it I think that's probably all I can say
about it.
S7 (42:51):
But some people like it and some people.
S6 (42:53):
Don't.
S7 (42:54):
So. Oh, well.
S1 (42:55):
I loved it. And of course, what he's not telling
you because he's being extremely humble is that they're talking
about Doctor Gart. So you're going to have to read
the book to see what they say back and forth
about each other. It's just wonderful. You talk about divine
design as the beginning And you. I think that's a
fabulously important note for us to end on because you're
really in talk of, you say that biology declares the
(43:16):
glory of God. That is such a profound point. So
put a capstone on this I and why people should
embrace this conversation, and why there's nothing to fear but
that God is revealing and revealing and revealing himself. Why?
Because he's not willing that any should perish. So of
course he'd make his way known in this life of
a cell, so that the atheist peering into his electron
microscope goes, wait a minute, there's got to be something more.
(43:39):
This isn't just chemistry. This isn't just some innate reaction.
So put the capstone on this and why we as
Christians should be excited about this particular book.
S6 (43:47):
Well, it's it's what you just said is summarized by
that wonderful verse. So they are without excuse. And that's
what God is doing. He is showing us that why
we we have no excuse to to say, no, there's
no God. We can't do that because now we are
learning so much, even in life that God is there
(44:09):
and everything is a divine design. I prefer divine design
to intelligent design because I think God is much more
than intelligent. And that kind of divinity is beyond our comprehension.
S1 (44:22):
I am going to borrow that going forward. I think
you're absolutely spot on. Thank you for that. Sai. Go
to the information page in the market with Janet Parshall.
Click on the red box. It says Program Details and Audio.
You're going to see a wonderful picture of Doctor Garth,
the bio of who he is, a link to his website.
Lots of wonderful things there. And on the right hand
side there's the book Beyond Evolution How New Discoveries in
(44:45):
the Science of Life Point to God. That gives me
goosebumps when you think about it. So I thank you.
Another fabulous, memorable conversation, and may God fling open the
doors of opportunity for you to step into the community,
the world of science, and tell them the good News
of Jesus. Thank you Sai. Thank you friends. We'll see
you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.