May 31, 2025 • 45 mins
Ann Wilson spent more than a decade longing for a better marriage and for her husband to be more attentive, more involved, more helpful, and just all-around better. And every chance she got, she told him so. Where she thought she was being helpful, she was instead badgering him with constant critiques until all he heard was, "Boo! Boo!" when they were together. It almost broke their marriage. But Ann discovered the power that God has given wives. No matter how long you've been married, you don't need to spend another minute hoping and wishing for things to be different. They can! And the power is in your hands. Join us to hear from Dave and Ann Wilson, the hosts of FamilyLife Today, to learn how to have a better, stronger marriage.
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S1 (00:00):
Hi friend, thanks so much for downloading this broadcast and
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(00:20):
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we push through the storm, learning to trust in God
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magnificent book. It's a short book, and in typical Robert
Morgan writing style, it is a powerful book. I strongly
recommend that you have a copy of The Mediterranean Sea Rules,
because trust me, every single one of us will find
(00:40):
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(01:22):
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now please enjoy the broadcast. Hi friends. This is Janet
Parshall and I want to welcome you to the best
of in the market. Today's program is prerecorded so our
(01:42):
phone lines are not open. But I do hope you'll
enjoy today's edition of the Best of In the Market
with Janet Parshall.
S2 (01:48):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:50):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (01:52):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S1 (01:55):
Extremely rare safety move by 17 years.
S5 (01:58):
The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S1 (02:00):
This is not true. Hi, friends. Welcome to In the
Market with Janet Parshall. Thank you so much for spending
the hour with me. You know, you just heard that
(02:22):
some audio representation of the marketplace of ideas, it's a
cacophony of ideas, is it not? And I pretty much
can guarantee you that when you get there, one of
the booths is going to be covering the subject of marriage.
How do I know? Well, let me give you popular
culture as an example. Say yes to the dress and
then the wedding cake cook offs that they have. And
then the married at first sight. Now, I'm not quite
(02:45):
sure that's the healthiest way to approach this subject, but
obviously it tells me if I'm being culturally astute, that
there's an interest in marriage out there. Here's the other
thing that I would offer into evidence, Your honor. Our
own marriages. You know, we want to walk down that aisle.
And then doesn't the fairy tale say, live happily ever after? Oh,
but therein lies the rub. That's the fairy tale part
(03:06):
of it. It doesn't happen like that. In fact, just
pull back a little bit and put on your spiritual
lenses for a minute and think to yourself. It's really
kind of an absurd idea. I mean, let's start with
the line of perfection. So God creates three institutions in
this order the family, government, and church. Of those three,
the one that's made in a Paradise is family. So
that gives me a sneak peek as to how important
(03:28):
this is to the heart of God. And even in
that place sin came in. So if it can happen
in a place of perfection, can sin come into our
marriages as well? And by sin I mean just not
representing Christ the way we should. Our actions, our attitudes,
our tongue, this little muscle in our mouth that has
the power the word tells us of life and death. Oh,
(03:49):
that gets in the way. But I don't know about you.
I want my marriage to be, first of all, Christ honoring,
even if nobody else in the world were to watch.
He's the unseen super glue that holds my marriage to
my high school sweetheart for over 50 plus years together.
Without him, we don't stand a chance. Secondarily, I want
the world to see that as a representation of Christ.
(04:09):
How much he loves his bride, the church. But then
I tell you, reality comes in. And if you look
at those three institutions, you think the accuser wants all
three of those to be standing and give honor and
glory to God. And I don't have to tell you,
coming as I do from Washington DC, that the family
is constantly under attack. So this hour we're going to
learn how to do and say the right thing that
(04:30):
speaks life into our marriage. And I can't think of
a better couple to talk to. Dave and Ann Wilson
are joining us. They're the hosts of FamilyLife today. They've
been married for decades, and most of that time they
have been spending it as teaching and mentoring couples and
parents all across the country. They also, by the way,
have a marvelous church that they founded as well, Kensington
(04:50):
Community Church, and when they're not at the church doing
their thing well, they're featured speakers at Family Life Weekends
to remember, marriage getaways have been doing that since 1993,
and in addition, they also hosted their own marriage conferences
across the country. I should, in full disclosure, also tell
you that Dave was the Detroit Lions chaplain for 33 years. Now.
(05:13):
As a diehard Packer fan, we will forgive him, and
I will tell him in full disclosure that every time
the green and gold had to play the Lions, I
held my breath because generally, I knew we were going
to get the snot kicked out of us on the field,
but I will let that pass. So Dave and Ann
join us today because Ann has written a book that
includes Dave's reflections called How to Speak Life to Your Husband.
(05:33):
When all you want to do is yell at him. Nah,
I've never had that experience ever. Dave and Ann, thank
you so much for joining me. I'm really looking forward
to this conversation.
S6 (05:42):
It's so good to be with you, Janet.
S7 (05:44):
I was gonna say I'm glad to be here, but
I don't know a Packer fan. bad. I've been to
Lambeau too many times. That place is scary.
S6 (05:52):
I would say we usually got beat by the Packers.
S7 (05:54):
Yeah, we usually got beat, but in the last couple seasons,
it's a.
S1 (05:57):
Yes, indeed. That's. But I'm telling you, it's always a
great game to watch. So kudos for what you're doing.
You know I just love it. I also have the
privilege of calling Doctor Carl Payne my friend. He was
the chaplain for the Seahawks for over 20 plus years. Exactly.
S6 (06:10):
Good friend.
S1 (06:11):
Isn't he wonderful? I just well and anytime you've got
faith and football together I'm right there at the 50
yard line. So I just love it. Well, I have
to tell you both how much I appreciate and love
the work you do at FamilyLife radio. And boy, I
love the way God puts you in his laboratory, teaches you,
and then says, now, I'd like you to teach others. But, boy,
he doesn't fail to teach us first, does he?
S6 (06:31):
Oh.
S7 (06:32):
Yeah. I mean, your intro was an explanation, in my opinion,
of the mission of marriage. God wants to do something
in us. But more importantly, or just as importantly, through
us to reveal who he is and the gospel to
others through Mary. It's crazy. It's awesome. It's incredible. What
a powerful mission.
S1 (06:49):
And yet it's not the easiest thing in the world,
is it? We've let the fairy tales and Hollywood really
and truly think us that it's, quote, happily ever after.
When you think about it, though, I mean, just trying
to be spiritually astute. Why would the father of Lies
just let our marriages alone? He would want to do
everything to make us sure that we never represented Christ
to each other in the boundaries of our marriage, because
(07:10):
if we do that, we're going to impact our kids.
It's going to be a poor witness to our neighborhood
and our church and the rest of our extended family.
So I think it's important that we understand that spiritual
warfare is a part of this. It seems to me.
Am I off on that?
S6 (07:22):
I'm so glad you brought it up, because I think
what happens is we get married thinking that we're going
to be so happy. My spouse is going to meet
all of my needs without remembering that we are in
a battle and on a battlefield. And so instead of realizing, oh,
I've got a war around me, but what? Instead I
look at my husband and think, well, if he would
(07:43):
just do x, y, and Z, I would be happy.
It's all his.
S7 (07:47):
Fault. I'm thinking the exact same thing.
S1 (07:50):
Exactly. And you know what? It's not just germane to
the Wilson household. I think we all think that as well. Yes,
and and I have to tell you how much I appreciate.
I literally laughed out loud reading the introduction when you
talked about preparing for a women's conference, and you thought,
I'm going to get Dave's perspective on this, and I
could so gravitate. My situation was for babies under six.
Sarah Rebecca Samuel Joseph Craig is in law school. And boy,
(08:13):
I'm telling you, I was booing all the time, so.
S6 (08:17):
I'm not alone.
S1 (08:18):
No. No, ma'am. But you got to tell the story
because it's so good.
S6 (08:23):
Well, and what had happened? Same thing. We had little
kids and I was asked to speak at this event
for moms of preschoolers. Dave's the pastor. I thought, oh,
they're going to love it if he comes. So he
comes with me. And I asked him, like, what do
you want to talk about? He goes, I don't know.
Let's just kind of wing it. So we get up
there and he just starts going off like he's passionate,
(08:44):
he's great, and he says something like this, ladies, I
don't know if you get what it's like for us
to be men, because usually we have a mom or
a dad or somebody that's cheering us as a little kid.
Then we get older and we get good at something.
We find what we're, you know, we're passionate about. So
we maybe have a teacher or coach cheering for us. Hey,
you're great at this. And then what happens is I
(09:05):
marry Anne and she basically says, of all the men
in the world, I choose you, Dave Wilson. You're the man.
But then he changes it. After that.
S7 (09:14):
We come home and all we hear is boo the
rest of the story. We'll tell you after the break.
S1 (09:18):
Ladies and gentlemen, the consummate radio professionals, Dave and Anne Wilson,
who know how to take us to a break. We'll
pick up that boo story on the other side of
this break. I've got a link to family life. I
know that we're talking to people all across the country
who listen. Isn't it a treat to be interviewing Dave
and Anne for a change? Their new book, How to
Speak Life to Your Husband when all you want to
do is yell at him back after this. When the
(09:47):
storms of life hit with hurricane force. How do you respond?
This month's truth tool is the Mediterranean Sea Rules, where
Robert Morgan writes how God will redeem our tragedies for
his purposes. Don't just survive the storms. Learn to serve
God in the midst of them. As for your copy
of the Mediterranean Sea Rules, when you give a gift
of any amount to in the market, call 877858. That's
877858 or go to in the market with Janet Parshall.
(10:13):
What a joy to spend the hour with Dave and
Anne Wilson. You know them as the host of FamilyLife today,
they've been talking and teaching and exemplifying what a good
marriage looks like. For decades, they got a brand new
book out now called How to Speak Life to Your Husband.
When all you want to do is yell at him.
What I love, by the way, for both of you,
is the absolute transparency in the way in which you
write this book. I you know, it's frustrating sometimes when
(10:35):
you see people and you think, boy, they got it
all together. Their checkbook is balanced, their kids are perfect.
Their house is spotless. I'm never going to be a
Christian like that. And when there was a shift somewhere
along the line in ministry where people decided that you
just had to say, look, I can't do any of
this without him, and I've got my failures as well.
And let me tell you what he's done in for
and through me. And I think that's been a paradigm
(10:55):
shift in how we minister to people. But I want
to go back to the booze story. So, you know,
all you hear is boo Dave from an and and
I loved it because it encapsulates something that I heard
Tim LaHaye say to me years and years and years ago.
He said, when a man wants more than anything else
from his wife is respect. So pick up that booze
story and tell me what you mean by that, because
(11:17):
I think it's a seminal point in the book.
S7 (11:19):
Yeah. I mean, I you know, as you said, it
opens the book because it was this moment in our
marriage where it is and again, this is the bad thing.
I had never said this to an ever, ever. So
here I am in front of a couple hundred women,
and obviously we should have had this conversation. But when
it came out of my mouth, I'm like, this is
exactly how it feels. I get cheered outside the home.
(11:42):
People think I'm good. They they like what I do.
I come inside the home and it feels like she's disappointed.
She wants to critique me. She wants to. I'm like
a fixer upper project, and I and I and I'd
never said it out loud. So when I said it,
I'm like, this is how it feels. And I think
a lot of husbands feel this. But then I look
over at Ann because I was now on the front
of the stage. She's sitting back on the stool and
(12:04):
she has this look like you are a dead man.
Wait till we get this car. And sure enough, we
got in the car. It was, oh.
S6 (12:13):
We got in the car. I don't even remember how
we ended, but we got in the car and I said,
you think I boo you? I am helping you. And
he said, does it? Does it feel like it's working?
I'm like, no, that's why I have to do it
more often. And sometimes I have to yell at because
you obviously aren't listening or getting it. And I'm telling
you that put us on a journey that really the
(12:36):
book comes out of that journey because God had to
really get a hold of my heart because I was
disappointed and I wasn't. I wasn't booing him to be mean.
I really thought, I can help you. And I wasn't
cheering him because I thought, everybody else is cheering him.
He doesn't need my applause. And I didn't want to
fake it either, because I thought he was kind of
(12:57):
failing in a way.
S1 (12:59):
So let me this is a cool hand Luke moment.
It seems to me what we've got here is a
failure to communicate. And why I love the book so
much is that I can so understand when Anne is saying,
it's like, wait, I don't know what my love language is,
but I'm doing all this stuff for you. Can you
not understand? This is my way of telling that I
love you. But to Dave, to your point, like you said,
you can have people cheering you on in every other
(13:21):
aspect of the work that you're doing. But if you
don't get that confirmation, that affirmation, that attaboy from your wife,
it just is the deepest of all wounds. So I
want to talk to you from a male's perspective. Why
is it so crucial that a man be affirmed by
his wife?
S7 (13:37):
Well, I think the hidden secret all of us men
carry around is we're still little boys inside. We don't
want anybody to know that we put on the facade.
We got it together. We got the house or the
car or the job. We've got success. But deep down,
we're still like. Mom, do you see me? Hey, look, look,
I'm doing good, right? It's still in there. And so
(13:59):
when our wife, who's the most important woman in our
in our life, sees greatness in us and speaks it out,
that's what the book's about when you speak life. Man,
I run home. I'm better than she even. It's just
it motivates a man. But when you speak death or critique,
I don't think it works. And I'm guessing it doesn't
work on women either. But it definitely doesn't work on men.
(14:21):
It's like I'm going to run to where I'm respected
and applauded. I'm going to run away from where I'm booed.
And so I found myself. And I'm not blaming Ann,
but I gravitated toward work, toward ministry, where they were
saying I was good. And when I came home and
heard boo, I said, okay, we'll see you later. I
went right back.
S6 (14:38):
Which made me boo even louder.
S1 (14:40):
Exactly, exactly. But it's like basic biology. Doesn't an amoeba
move away from negative stimuli? It's like, I don't want that.
I'm not going to come home and get that. But
what what is so tender hearted and bittersweet about this,
and it's a profound recognition that I know people are
resonating with all across the country, is that both of
you are coming at this from a place of love,
but it's getting misinterpreted somewhere along the way that you
(15:02):
want more than anything else. Dave, the affirmation for an
and an, you're trying to show them how much you
love him, but it's not getting translated that way. It's
coming across as negative. So now I want to turn
to you, Anne, because this is where the exhaustion of
being a wife and a mother comes in. Right? I'm
glad we have Mother's Day once a year. I'd like
a 365 days a year, but hey, that's just me.
But when you leave the toilet seat up and the
(15:23):
wet towels are on the floor, and I've told you
450 times, I'm not going to. Attaboy you, Dave. thanks
so much. How do I handle the fact that there isn't?
How do I speak life into the realities of everyday life?
S6 (15:35):
Well, I think I had to go before God. Honestly,
I had to start there. And I vented to God
when I got home from that car ride. And I
just said, God, can you believe this? And I think
it's okay to tell God what we're feeling. I was
so offended. But that's like confession, telling him the truth
of what we're feeling. But at the end of that prayer,
I said, God, do you think I boo Dave? And
(15:55):
you know, the Holy Spirit lives in us when we're
in Christ. And I just felt that affirmation of yes.
Start paying attention to your thoughts, which honestly, Janet, like,
I was like, oh yeah. When I started paying attention
to what I thought about Dave, it was generally negative.
And then I felt like he said, pay attention to
not only your words to Dave, but to your kids too.
(16:17):
And as moms, we're we're training, we're discipling, we're teaching.
But even with teenagers, it's easy only to see the negative.
And so that's where it started for me. And honestly,
my prayer became this is what I felt like God
was saying, and look for the greatness. And so that
was my prayer. God, show me the greatness in Dave.
(16:38):
He's made in your image right now. I'm not seeing
any greatness, which is crazy because we create these neurological pathways.
When we go negative, it's always negative. So God had
to do a transformation of my mind from Romans 12
two be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
S1 (16:56):
Wow. Let me take a break. This conversation, I can tell,
is going to go far too fast. And just for
the record, there's going to be so much more in
the book how to speak life to your husband. When
all you want to do is yell at him, then
even the precious, irreplaceable gift of one hour of Dave
and Ann's time is going to afford us. So if
we're piquing your curiosity, if your heart is racing a
little bit faster, if the Lord is speaking to you
(17:17):
through Dave and Ann Wilson, let me really encourage you
to get this book, because I know that God wants
us to have marriages that honor and glorify him in
all things. And guess what? When that happens, we get
a much better marriage. Who doesn't want that? More with
Dave and Ann Wilson right after this. Dave and Ann
(17:39):
Wilson are with us. They are the hosts of FamilyLife today,
heard all across the country. They've been teaching about marriage
for decades. And guess what? They're still learning. And that's
really what this new book is all about and writes it.
Dave puts in his reflections in the book is called
How to Speak Life to Your Husband, when all you
want to do is yell at him. Very realistic, transparent,
but biblically based. And the book of Proverbs, by the way,
(18:01):
is immersed in this book for which I'm very, very grateful. So, Ann,
when you're trying to do things differently, when you get
the nudging from the Holy Spirit that says, yes, the
booing is there, we're going to start speaking life. We're
going to build up rather than tear down. What happens
when pride comes in?
S6 (18:16):
Oh, that's exactly how it is going to say. The
reason I didn't want to do it was because of pride.
And so and this is an example I felt like
God was saying and just start small. And here's what
my thought was. Okay, I can start by just saying
thank you, but I didn't want to. This is so
terrible because, you know, I didn't want to. I thought, well,
(18:37):
I do everything around here and who thanks me. And
that's just pure pride. That is absolute pride. And so I.
S7 (18:43):
That actually was the truth too. You did everything.
S6 (18:46):
But still but still. And so I started very simply
because I it women will say to me, what am
I supposed to fake it and so but but sometimes
we step out in obedience unto God. Maybe your spouse doesn't.
And we're talking about a goodwilled man or woman. Like
it's this is this isn't somebody that's abusive. They're not
(19:07):
harming you. We say that if you're being harmed and
if you're in a dangerous situation, you need to get
out and get safe. That's the most loving thing you
could do at that point and get help. But I'm
talking about a goodwilled person. So for me just to say, okay,
I can start with thank you, Dave, for taking out
the trash.
S7 (19:26):
I mean, honestly, one night at dinner, our boys, we
had three sons. They're probably middle school. She just looks
at me before we eat. She says, hey guys, before
we eat, I just want to say something to dad.
And she says, hey, thank you. Thanks for working hard.
Thanks for doing extra work. Nobody sees all what you
do behind the scenes that helps provide this food. I
really appreciate it. The boys are like, can we eat?
(19:46):
You know, and I'm sitting there thinking, what is she doing?
She's doing what she read in a book. But you
know what happened? My my chest started pumping out of
my I was like, I am the man, aren't I?
You know, it was just like. It was amazing how
that little affirmation made me feel so good. And it
was just a small little words of life.
S6 (20:09):
I had no idea that my words would be so powerful,
more powerful than anyone else's. I had no idea.
S1 (20:17):
And this is why this conversation is so crucial to
be able to hear what you believe and experience out
of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. We
think it's just a word. Just thank you. I can't
make that much of a difference. But yes, you start
with little and you build. And so Dave, it wasn't
just in the moment where she thanked you for all
that you do to provide for the family. You say
that it really changed the dynamic of the marriage. Now
(20:39):
some people might think, oh, that's too simplistic. You know,
just speaking words of life into a marriage can't possibly
do it. But it does. And it did in your case.
So how did you begin to change?
S7 (20:49):
Yeah. I mean, what happened is again, we're not talking
about this happened over a week or a month. This
took place over years. And again, I didn't know what
was going on behind the scenes, but she was starting
to think differently about me and then speak words of life.
And again, it wasn't every, you know, second, oh, you're amazing.
But it was like so much cheering and believing in me.
(21:11):
I mean, she started saying things like, you are a
good man. You're a good husband. You are really a
good spiritual leader of this family. And at first, Janet,
I was like, what are you lying about? You've never
said this. You know what is happening right now. But
it became something she was saying daily and I realized,
oh my goodness, she really believes this now about me
(21:33):
and is cheering me now. That doesn't mean she didn't
speak truth and hard things. She she did. But before
it was only that and I ran away. Now it
was like she believes in me and she's helped me
become better. And the thing that I think this book
is really about is women. You have power. God has
given you a unique influence and power, not just in
(21:54):
your marriage, but especially in your marriage, and you can
impact your man. It has changed our atmosphere. I run
home now, I really do. It's like I want to
be with this woman who really believes I'm something. You know,
the people out there don't think I'm much anymore. But
she does. And so I want to run home. And
that's what a woman can do. She can shape the
(22:14):
the atmosphere of their home and even their legacy.
S6 (22:17):
Well, and here's an example. My one of my biggest complaints.
I mean, Dave's a pastor, for goodness sake. He's an
incredible leader. But I had this image of what I
thought he should do to lead spiritually, our boys, to
mentor them, to disciple them. I had this whole thing
planned in my head of how he should do.
S7 (22:34):
It, and she told me all the time how I
wasn't doing it.
S6 (22:38):
And I talked to a lot of women, and this
is a thing that we we are frustrated over. And
so when I prayed that prayer, show me the greatness
in Dave. Like this one night he's in there, he's
praying for the boys. And he came out of the
room and I said, man, I'm so jealous of the
power you have with our sons. And he said, what
do you mean? I said, I just watched the way
(22:59):
you talk to them, and they cling to every word
you say. I wish I had that power because, you know,
they're just running all over the place and crazy with me.
But you have an incredible power. I don't even think
you realize the power and influence.
S7 (23:12):
You Janet. I can tell you where I was standing
when she said those words.
S1 (23:16):
Wow.
S7 (23:16):
Wow. And, you know, the next night, what am I
doing at bedtime? I'm running up the stairs. I'm in
there laying on the bed, reading the devo and praying
with these guys. I was like, wow. And then she
didn't do that.
S6 (23:27):
No, I didn't do it.
S7 (23:27):
To manipulate me to get there. But I realized, oh
my goodness, I, I do have power. And she's acknowledging
it and and applauding it, and it motivated me to
be even better.
S1 (23:39):
Well, that's the point I was trying to make earlier.
And I'm so glad you gave that excellent example, because
it isn't just in the moment. It really has a
way of changing the trajectory. So you want to be
the man that Anne said you are. So that compelled
you to go up there and have the devo time
with the boys, because if you're really the person who
has that kind of influence, like Anne says, well, I
want to make sure I use that influence to good.
(24:00):
So the power of a word, an apple of gold, right?
An apt word. That's why Proverbs weaves its way throughout
this book. Absolutely fabulous. Can you believe we're halfway through
this conversation? The book is called How to Speak Life
to Your Husband. When all you want to do is
yell at him. There is so much more in the
book and I'm glad I still have time. But in
the meantime, check the book out on our information page.
I've also got a link to Family Life Easy website familylife.com.
(24:24):
Check it out! More with David and Wilson right after this.
Tired of the endless, biased spin you hear on mainstream
media and in the market, we're using God's Word as
our guide as we examine today's events, and we want
you to be informed and bold about his truth. This
(24:44):
is a listener supported program, so if you value what
you hear and you want us to continue on your station,
become a partial partner with your monthly support, call eight 7758.
That's eight 7758 or go online to in the market
with Janet Parshall. How to speak life to your husband
when all you want to do is yell at him.
(25:06):
That is the new book by Ann Wilson, her husband
Dave offers his reflections to the book as well. Fascinating.
They are, of course, as we all know, the host
of FamilyLife today. They've been married for decades. They've been
spending just about the same amount of time teaching people
about marriage all across the country. They've been featured speakers
at Family Life's Weekend to Remember marriage getaways since 1993,
(25:27):
as well as hosting their own marriage conferences as well.
So this is the real deal. And I just love
this book because the mask is off. The reality is
there and it reminds us. And this is why I
keep going back to the reference to the book of
Proverbs about the power of life and death in the tongue.
And when Ann had a wake up call vis a
vis Dave, that all he hears from her is boo boy,
(25:50):
she went before the Lord got confirmation from the Holy
Spirit and started speaking life into the marriage, and things
changed dramatically. I have to tell you, there were so
many points in the book I laughed out loud. Maybe
it's because being Sadie, Sadie, old married lady myself, I
laugh because it's so universal and experience. So the chapter
about why don't I get a helper? Really resonated with me.
(26:11):
So I don't want the world to teach me theology.
And I'm in DC and I've debated every one of
these famous feminists multiple times and boy, you know, just
messed up ideas. So, Pastor Dave, I'm going to start
with you. So why? I mean, there's some things we
won't know because his thoughts are above our thoughts and
his ways are not our ways, but he makes a
suitable helper, right? Takes the rib out of the side
(26:33):
and creates Eve. Um, why do you think he makes
Adam first, not Eve first. And why does he get
a helper? But she doesn't.
S7 (26:42):
You're asking the same question an asked in in the book.
I think it's because the man was unfinished and he
realized I can do a lot better. And, uh, he
made the one. I'm kidding, obviously, but. And really did
dig in, uh, you know, as you, as you saw
a chapter about, you know, where's my helper? Why is
(27:03):
the man get a helper? I should get a helper.
And why? And it felt like, you know, helper means
a subservient.
S6 (27:10):
A little.
S7 (27:11):
Servant, you know, that just bows down to her man.
And then when you study the original Hebrew in the,
you know, the book of Genesis in chapter two and
Azer a helper suitable it's powerful. The power that he
has put in this wife to be a man's partner,
(27:31):
to stand toe to toe. It's like it isn't some
little servant that just, you know, does whatever the man wants.
It's like, no, you are his equal and he needs
you both need one another to accomplish God's mission and
to defeat the enemy in the garden. You can't do
it without her.
S1 (27:51):
Yeah.
S6 (27:52):
I love what Christy McClellan, who's a Bible teacher and
has written a bunch of Bible studies, but she is
a Hebrew culturalist. And so she studied over in Israel
for a while, and she asked a rabbi who was late,
probably in his 70s or 80s, but she said, Rabbi,
why do you think God says that Eve was to
(28:12):
be the helper suitable the aser conejo? And he said, oh, Christy,
I think because God knew there was an enemy in
the garden, and it would take the man and the
woman together to combat and to defeat the enemy. It's
when they both work together and I thought, oh, that's
so beautiful. We also in our when we do our podcasts,
(28:34):
our radio podcast, we have our guests for lunch one day.
We had all these theologians that had their doctorates in theology.
And so when I had all these guys in the room,
I remember saying, you guys, you a lot of you
are experts in Hebrew. What do you think when you
look at when you look at Genesis 218, what are
you thinking? And one of the guys.
S7 (28:55):
Doctor Jeffrey Myers, he's a PhD in theology. And he
I caught it on audio because I'm like, what he's
saying right now is so insightful. He just said, I
think when a husband looks at his wife.
S6 (29:08):
Stands toe to toe.
S7 (29:09):
Stands toe to toe, he sees in his wife's eyes
the man he can be.
S1 (29:14):
Mm. Wow.
S7 (29:14):
And it was so it was just like a mic
drop in the room where, like. Oh, because it's so,
you know, when I looked at my wife's eyes, I
saw disappointment, I saw failure. Like, I'm not measuring up.
And when, man, when you're the woman that and you
use that influence the way God intended, this man becomes better.
He sees like, oh, I can be a better man.
I can be a better husband. She believes in me,
(29:37):
not disappointed in me. And that doesn't mean we don't
struggle and have conflicts. And we, you know, every day
there's disappointments. But it means I see some greatness in you.
And it enables the man to see it as well.
And then I think it goes both ways. The man
can impart that to his wife as well. But man, women,
you have such incredible power that God has gifted you.
S6 (29:59):
And it's a different power than the culture's talking about. Yes, yes.
Culture saying, oh, you can be all that you can be.
And I would say, no, no, we can be who
Christ made us to be. And there's a difference in that.
It's our identity isn't just that we're amazing. Our identity
comes out of our position in Christ, and he's the
one that gives us the power in the way he
(30:20):
made us. It's very different. It's a subtle change, but
it's a really important difference.
S1 (30:26):
Profound. I want to linger here, and I know this
isn't necessarily addressed in the book, but I don't want
people to be stuck in bramble bushes of bad theology.
And we have to talk about Genesis, but you also
have to talk about the New Testament. So going back
to what Jeff said, and I just love his work,
by the way. Yes. To be able to say, you
see in your wife the eyes of the man that
you know, that you can become and that that that
(30:47):
suitable helper eye to eye, which is so tremendously important.
So fast forward to the New Testament, where the world
and I don't think it's the world, it's the world,
the flesh and the devil. And in this case, it's
the devil who's trying to twist scripture to the point
where it becomes a burden rather than a blessing in
our lives. So if you've got a right minded man,
as you said before, an how do you then square
off this suitable helper eye to eye to. Oh, but
(31:09):
I forgot to tell you, you've also got to submit. So,
Pastor Dave, break that down for me. How does that
dynamic work?
S7 (31:17):
Well, I mean, it's it's a picture of a beautiful partnership. There's,
you know, in any organization, in any family, there's a leader,
there's a follower, I think at times sometimes and leads
sometimes I lead, but I submit to her at different times.
But there's a role that we play that God has
instituted and said, this is the way it works best.
(31:38):
I gotta tell you, and's a better overall leader than
I am. She really is. And so there's times I
defer and want her wisdom, and there's times when she
defers and wants mine. And so again, it's a, it's a,
it's a beautiful partnership that because of our sin nature,
I'll just say because of my sin nature, we get
in fights about it, you know, because I want her
(31:59):
to follow me and she's wanted. But, I mean, it's
always going to be a tension. But when we say, okay,
first of all, I've surrendered and submitted to Jesus and
I want to do what he wants me to do.
That's how I want to lead in our family.
S6 (32:13):
And I would say the way that I teach it
when we're, um, doing our marriage conference is I hold
up an umbrella, and in the umbrella you have the
covering or the, you know, the canvas, and then you
have the support, which is the handle. And I'll say
to the women, if God has called the man to
be the leader, to be the head, and he's called
(32:34):
us to be the support to come in behind him
and with him. Which one is more important? Mm. And
I don't think you can say which one, because if
you only have the canvas, there's nothing to support it.
But if you only have the handle, you basically have
a lightning rod. And so I think they're both equally Important.
But the question is for me because I'm super strong.
(32:57):
I didn't want to be a doormat and I didn't.
And yet I didn't realize, oh no, no, no, that's
not what God's calling us to be. Helper suitable in submission.
We're all submitting unto Christ. Amen. It's a beautiful position
to be in. And it's it's a hard position at
times too, but it makes me have to submit daily
to my father, to God.
S1 (33:19):
Yeah, exactly. But going full circle to the primary spinal
column of the book, which is really about the power
of life, the power of speech, that apt word, the
controlling of the tongue. You know, I'm I'm I submit
to Christ because I trust him. I love him. He
keeps me safe. Um. And I know no matter what,
he won't stop loving me. So I'm happy to submit
(33:40):
to Christ to make that transference. And this is a
paradigm again, for Christ and his relationship with us. I
am only too happy to submit to a husband who
does the same thing. Makes me feel safe, may feel
makes me feel secure. I can trust him. He'll never
stop loving me. But going to your point, Dave, I
have the opportunity to help my husband be that man
when I speak life into the marriage. So there. This
(34:02):
is connecting the dots as clear as can be. It
seems to me.
S7 (34:06):
Yeah. And I think, you know, the one of the
things the book tries to highlight is, again, the power
that the wife has compared to everybody else. You know,
when somebody comes up to me as a, as a
pastor and says, you're amazing, I smile and say thank you.
They don't know because they don't see the ugly and
the bad. When Ann says to me, you're amazing. I'll
(34:27):
run to the top of the world. It's like she
sees the negative, she sees the bad, and she still
believes I'm amazing. That's I mean that. I mean, I've
been I've been beside pro athletes when a fan will
come up and say, you're amazing and they just smile
because they know. Yeah, they don't really know me. They
just see what I do on a football field. But
(34:47):
when your wife who sees it all, the good and
the bad and the ugly says, I believe in you.
You're special. I affirm you. That man is going to
be a good man.
S6 (34:57):
It's a reflection of the gospel. Christ sees everything in
us the good, the bad, the horrible. And yet he
still loves us and pursues us. And that's a reflection.
Marriage is a reflection of that.
S1 (35:09):
1,000%. Well, you mentioned a Doctor Fisher in the book
looking at the brain. I love this section, but because
the brain can tell us something about people who are
madly in love, share that with me.
S6 (35:21):
I thought this was fascinating to Helen Fisher. She studied
couples that had been married more than 20 years. And
here's what she. She was looking for. She's looking for
couples that said they were still madly in love with
one another. And so she studied these three areas of
the brain. And there's one area that's responsible for a
phenomena called positive illusion, or focusing on what you like.
(35:47):
It's fascinating.
S1 (35:49):
And what a great place to leave it hanging. As
we go to a break, let's find out what Positive
Illusion is all about. The brand new book by Dave
and Anne Wilson is called How to Speak Life to
Your Husband. When all you want to do is yell
at him, Anne Rice. And then Dave offers his keen,
important reflections at the end of every chapter that Anne
has written. It's a marvelous book. You'd expect nothing less
(36:09):
from the hosts of family life. Today we're going to
come back and we're going to talk about that positive
illusion and the brain of happily married couples back after this.
(36:33):
Dave and Anne Wilson are with us. Their brand new
book is called How to Speak Life to Your Husband.
When all you want to do is yell at him.
And in the book, they write about the work of
one doctor, Helen Fisher, who wanted to do some work
on couples who still said they were madly in love.
They had to be married over 25 years, and she
found some absolutely fascinating things about the brain. Now you
talk about the new frontier. Forget Mars. I think we
(36:55):
need to do more exploration in the brain because there's
such fascinating stuff here. And what you write about in
the book is that she said there was a phenomenon
called positive illusion. Now, I found this part of the
book absolutely fascinating. And what is the positive illusion that
she found?
S6 (37:10):
It's so funny because what she found is that people
that have positive illusion are focusing on what they like
about their spouse. They're seeing the positive. Now, I would
say Dave does that. He, you know, he would rate
our marriage a ten. And I would think, well, that's
because you're in denial or you're clueless or you don't
(37:32):
even care enough to know that we're actually like a 0.5.
But she's saying, no, these couples are looking for and
they see the good in each other. And the spouse
would say, oh, they see me way better than I
actually am. And I was like, I was dumbfounded by this.
And so I see that again as Romans 12 two,
do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed
(37:55):
by the renewing of your mind. And so I love
that brain science is now catching up with the Bible.
What God says because as we as and also Scripture says,
take every thought captive. And so where I would just
think these negative thoughts all the time about Dave. Now
God's saying no. And I felt like one time I
was just in this bad place complaining about Dave. I'm
(38:18):
doing the laundry, I'm folding clothes and going through my
list of all the things he's doing wrong. He's not home.
He's not helping. I've had the opposite of positive illusion,
and I felt like God said, what would happen if
you prayed for him as much as you complained about him?
And this is where we can take those thoughts captive,
and we can try to see good in our spouse.
(38:39):
We can even text our spouse, hey, thank you. Or
I see, I saw that you did this. And I
think that's really important.
S7 (38:46):
And I'll just add, you know, we started with the
boost story over the years and decades. This is not
an exaggeration. There is no one in the world that
cheers me more than Anne. She is my greatest cheerleader.
Every day she sees greatness in me. She calls it out.
It's amazing. And again, this didn't happen over a week
(39:09):
or even maybe a year. But over the years, it's
like she really believes I'm a good man, husband, dad.
And that makes me want to be even better. And
we have that power.
S6 (39:19):
Well, this one night. And maybe this will be helpful
to to your listeners because I was asking God, where
do I start? And I felt like one of the
places not only could I start with saying, show me
the greatness of Dave, but I tend to be a
verbal processor. And so if I think it, I generally
will say it.
S7 (39:38):
Yep. She does.
S6 (39:39):
So this one night I'm starting to really work on this.
And and so I felt like God was saying an
ask me should I say it? Then asked me if
now's the time or what should you say and how
should you say it? So this one night David had
a huge day.
S7 (39:56):
Yeah, I come home after preaching five times, being on
the sideline with the Lions, just a long weekend, and
I crawl in bed and say, at 1130 at night,
all I want to do is go to sleep. But
I say, man, I'm getting a lot of critiques lately
on my sermons.
S6 (40:09):
And Janet, this is embarrassing, but what came to my
head was I was going to say, this is what
came to my head. Well, if you would spend more
time studying the scriptures, I think your sermons would be
way better. And I thought, well, that will be helpful.
But I asked God, God, should I say it? No. Okay, okay.
It was just a minute. It took a one second
(40:29):
to pray. God, should I say it? No, Lord, should
I say anything? Is there anything I should say? And
then this this thought popped into my head. And so
I said it. And here's what I said. I can't
imagine what it's like to be you. You have thousands
of people depending on your walk with God. What a
weighty thing that must be to carry. And then there's silence.
(40:54):
And then he pulls me over to himself. He hugs
me and he whispers in my ear, you are my life. Wow.
Now what if I would have said, if you just
study the word more, you know, and this is where
I'm like, God's on our team. He wants to help us.
He's wanting our marriages to be better, and he will.
He's walking right alongside us in this.
S7 (41:17):
And again, you know, Janet, uh, she knows I do
need to be in the word more. And she didn't
say any of that. Guess what? The next day I
wake up and I'm thinking, you know, I need to
study better. But if she would have said that, I
would have maybe slept on the couch. I don't know, but.
S1 (41:32):
Yeah.
S7 (41:32):
You know, I didn't think I'm going to hold her
and say, you are my life. I just that was
a spontaneous response because that's the power that a woman has.
It's like you see all the bad and you still think,
I'm great. You are my life. I can't do this
without you.
S1 (41:47):
Dave. You used that idea of power over and over
and over again, which I find so beautiful, because I
think it's important for women in particular to hear that
because so often when they're burdened by the, the, the
tyranny of the mundane, that they sometimes don't feel that
they have any power at all. Going back to Helen
Fisher for a minute, the converse reaction was for people
who don't feel that they're madly in love with their spouse.
(42:09):
They look for things to criticize. So you walk through
the experience of asking the Lord, I love the fact that,
you know, quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger.
You waited for the Holy Spirit to nudge you and
give you a response. You know, we all know there
are people listening right now who are thinking, yeah, I
want that. And no way. You don't know my husband
can't do it. But there is a lot of implied
and stated volitional ism in what you've been talking about
(42:32):
over the last hour and give some encouragement to people
who think I. You don't know my husband. I just
can't do it. Where do they? What is the first
step that they take if they want to breathe life in,
if they want that apple of gold, that apt word,
where do they begin when they think, you know, for
the last 15 years, all I've done is criticize. I'm
sticking here because the Bible says I shouldn't get divorced,
(42:52):
but I sure don't have any butterflies in my stomach.
S6 (42:55):
I was at that point, and I have women all
the time come up to me and say, I can't
do this, there's nothing to cheer. And what I would
say is, God is cheering for your spouse and he's
cheering for you. And so I think the most important
step is, is you surrender to Jesus. Honestly, every day
I'm laying down my life saying, God, I can't do
this apart from you. I need your help. I need
(43:17):
to say and do the things that you would say
and do. Fill me, Holy Spirit, I need you. That's
the first step.
S1 (43:25):
Well, Dave, is there anything a husband should tell a
wife if he's so wounded by the booze, he doesn't
think there'll ever be any cheering.
S7 (43:32):
Well I would say don't do it on a stage.
Do it in the kitchen after the kids are in
bed and it's a quiet moment. Be gentle, be soft. Um,
I again, it's a hard thing to say, but to
be honest and trust God. And I would say, pray first,
say God, give me the words and then speak the truth.
S6 (43:53):
And if I were a wife, I would ask your husband,
do you think I cheer for you or boo more?
S1 (43:59):
Yeah, well, oh, what rich, rich conversation. Like I said,
I'm married longer than you two, and I'm learning things
out of this book. You're never too old. And it's
never too late to really and truly submit to the Lord.
Ask him to put his words in your mouth to
find the cheering rather than the booing. This book is fabulous. Again,
it's called How to Speak Life to Your Husband when
(44:20):
all you want to do is yell at him. I
encourage you to read it. Thank you David and what
a great conversation. See you next time, friends.
S8 (44:28):
Retractable claws up to 1.5in long, capable of jumping 36ft.
A roar that can be heard five miles away. The
lion King of the beasts. Picture yourself surrounded by several.
Like Daniel, he determined to prey, though he knew he
(44:48):
would pay. Are we willing to face the lions of
our culture? Be a Daniel. A challenge for Moody Radio.
S9 (44:58):
How long have you been a part of the Moody
Radio family?
S10 (45:01):
Well, I've been listening to Moody since 1993. And, I mean,
I get up with Woody, I go to bed with Moody,
and it just. It's been a blessing in my life
for all these years. The teaching and the worship. And
Moody is a station that is really rooted in the
Word of God. In the series about who is God.
S9 (45:20):
Serious about God? That's us. And we're seriously grateful for
listeners like you.
Hi friend, thanks so much for downloading this broadcast and
it is my hope that you'll hear something that will
challenge you, grow you up in him, and get you
out into the marketplace of ideas. But before you start listening,
let me take a moment and tell you what this
month's truth tool is. It's the Mediterranean Sea Rules by
Robert Morgan. I talked to him often on the air
because he's such a superb writer, and in this particular book,
he takes the story of Paul's shipwreck, recorded in the
(00:20):
book of acts, and gives us ten principles of how
we push through the storm, learning to trust in God
and all that he has done for us. It's a
magnificent book. It's a short book, and in typical Robert
Morgan writing style, it is a powerful book. I strongly
recommend that you have a copy of The Mediterranean Sea Rules,
because trust me, every single one of us will find
(00:40):
ourselves on stormy seas at some point in our voyage
through life. As for your copy of the Mediterranean Sea
Rules by calling 877 58, that's 877 Janet 58 or
go online to in the market with Janet Parshall. Scroll
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My way of saying thank you because we are listener
(01:01):
supported radio. Your gifts keep this broadcast on the air.
By the way, if you'd like to give regularly, you're
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(01:22):
online at In the Market with Janet Parshall. Again the
truth tool, the Mediterranean Sea rules. Thanks so much. And
now please enjoy the broadcast. Hi friends. This is Janet
Parshall and I want to welcome you to the best
of in the market. Today's program is prerecorded so our
(01:42):
phone lines are not open. But I do hope you'll
enjoy today's edition of the Best of In the Market
with Janet Parshall.
S2 (01:48):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:50):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (01:52):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S1 (01:55):
Extremely rare safety move by 17 years.
S5 (01:58):
The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S1 (02:00):
This is not true. Hi, friends. Welcome to In the
Market with Janet Parshall. Thank you so much for spending
the hour with me. You know, you just heard that
(02:22):
some audio representation of the marketplace of ideas, it's a
cacophony of ideas, is it not? And I pretty much
can guarantee you that when you get there, one of
the booths is going to be covering the subject of marriage.
How do I know? Well, let me give you popular
culture as an example. Say yes to the dress and
then the wedding cake cook offs that they have. And
then the married at first sight. Now, I'm not quite
(02:45):
sure that's the healthiest way to approach this subject, but
obviously it tells me if I'm being culturally astute, that
there's an interest in marriage out there. Here's the other
thing that I would offer into evidence, Your honor. Our
own marriages. You know, we want to walk down that aisle.
And then doesn't the fairy tale say, live happily ever after? Oh,
but therein lies the rub. That's the fairy tale part
(03:06):
of it. It doesn't happen like that. In fact, just
pull back a little bit and put on your spiritual
lenses for a minute and think to yourself. It's really
kind of an absurd idea. I mean, let's start with
the line of perfection. So God creates three institutions in
this order the family, government, and church. Of those three,
the one that's made in a Paradise is family. So
that gives me a sneak peek as to how important
(03:28):
this is to the heart of God. And even in
that place sin came in. So if it can happen
in a place of perfection, can sin come into our
marriages as well? And by sin I mean just not
representing Christ the way we should. Our actions, our attitudes,
our tongue, this little muscle in our mouth that has
the power the word tells us of life and death. Oh,
(03:49):
that gets in the way. But I don't know about you.
I want my marriage to be, first of all, Christ honoring,
even if nobody else in the world were to watch.
He's the unseen super glue that holds my marriage to
my high school sweetheart for over 50 plus years together.
Without him, we don't stand a chance. Secondarily, I want
the world to see that as a representation of Christ.
(04:09):
How much he loves his bride, the church. But then
I tell you, reality comes in. And if you look
at those three institutions, you think the accuser wants all
three of those to be standing and give honor and
glory to God. And I don't have to tell you,
coming as I do from Washington DC, that the family
is constantly under attack. So this hour we're going to
learn how to do and say the right thing that
(04:30):
speaks life into our marriage. And I can't think of
a better couple to talk to. Dave and Ann Wilson
are joining us. They're the hosts of FamilyLife today. They've
been married for decades, and most of that time they
have been spending it as teaching and mentoring couples and
parents all across the country. They also, by the way,
have a marvelous church that they founded as well, Kensington
(04:50):
Community Church, and when they're not at the church doing
their thing well, they're featured speakers at Family Life Weekends
to remember, marriage getaways have been doing that since 1993,
and in addition, they also hosted their own marriage conferences
across the country. I should, in full disclosure, also tell
you that Dave was the Detroit Lions chaplain for 33 years. Now.
(05:13):
As a diehard Packer fan, we will forgive him, and
I will tell him in full disclosure that every time
the green and gold had to play the Lions, I
held my breath because generally, I knew we were going
to get the snot kicked out of us on the field,
but I will let that pass. So Dave and Ann
join us today because Ann has written a book that
includes Dave's reflections called How to Speak Life to Your Husband.
(05:33):
When all you want to do is yell at him. Nah,
I've never had that experience ever. Dave and Ann, thank
you so much for joining me. I'm really looking forward
to this conversation.
S6 (05:42):
It's so good to be with you, Janet.
S7 (05:44):
I was gonna say I'm glad to be here, but
I don't know a Packer fan. bad. I've been to
Lambeau too many times. That place is scary.
S6 (05:52):
I would say we usually got beat by the Packers.
S7 (05:54):
Yeah, we usually got beat, but in the last couple seasons,
it's a.
S1 (05:57):
Yes, indeed. That's. But I'm telling you, it's always a
great game to watch. So kudos for what you're doing.
You know I just love it. I also have the
privilege of calling Doctor Carl Payne my friend. He was
the chaplain for the Seahawks for over 20 plus years. Exactly.
S6 (06:10):
Good friend.
S1 (06:11):
Isn't he wonderful? I just well and anytime you've got
faith and football together I'm right there at the 50
yard line. So I just love it. Well, I have
to tell you both how much I appreciate and love
the work you do at FamilyLife radio. And boy, I
love the way God puts you in his laboratory, teaches you,
and then says, now, I'd like you to teach others. But, boy,
he doesn't fail to teach us first, does he?
S6 (06:31):
Oh.
S7 (06:32):
Yeah. I mean, your intro was an explanation, in my opinion,
of the mission of marriage. God wants to do something
in us. But more importantly, or just as importantly, through
us to reveal who he is and the gospel to
others through Mary. It's crazy. It's awesome. It's incredible. What
a powerful mission.
S1 (06:49):
And yet it's not the easiest thing in the world,
is it? We've let the fairy tales and Hollywood really
and truly think us that it's, quote, happily ever after.
When you think about it, though, I mean, just trying
to be spiritually astute. Why would the father of Lies
just let our marriages alone? He would want to do
everything to make us sure that we never represented Christ
to each other in the boundaries of our marriage, because
(07:10):
if we do that, we're going to impact our kids.
It's going to be a poor witness to our neighborhood
and our church and the rest of our extended family.
So I think it's important that we understand that spiritual
warfare is a part of this. It seems to me.
Am I off on that?
S6 (07:22):
I'm so glad you brought it up, because I think
what happens is we get married thinking that we're going
to be so happy. My spouse is going to meet
all of my needs without remembering that we are in
a battle and on a battlefield. And so instead of realizing, oh,
I've got a war around me, but what? Instead I
look at my husband and think, well, if he would
(07:43):
just do x, y, and Z, I would be happy.
It's all his.
S7 (07:47):
Fault. I'm thinking the exact same thing.
S1 (07:50):
Exactly. And you know what? It's not just germane to
the Wilson household. I think we all think that as well. Yes,
and and I have to tell you how much I appreciate.
I literally laughed out loud reading the introduction when you
talked about preparing for a women's conference, and you thought,
I'm going to get Dave's perspective on this, and I
could so gravitate. My situation was for babies under six.
Sarah Rebecca Samuel Joseph Craig is in law school. And boy,
(08:13):
I'm telling you, I was booing all the time, so.
S6 (08:17):
I'm not alone.
S1 (08:18):
No. No, ma'am. But you got to tell the story
because it's so good.
S6 (08:23):
Well, and what had happened? Same thing. We had little
kids and I was asked to speak at this event
for moms of preschoolers. Dave's the pastor. I thought, oh,
they're going to love it if he comes. So he
comes with me. And I asked him, like, what do
you want to talk about? He goes, I don't know.
Let's just kind of wing it. So we get up
there and he just starts going off like he's passionate,
(08:44):
he's great, and he says something like this, ladies, I
don't know if you get what it's like for us
to be men, because usually we have a mom or
a dad or somebody that's cheering us as a little kid.
Then we get older and we get good at something.
We find what we're, you know, we're passionate about. So
we maybe have a teacher or coach cheering for us. Hey,
you're great at this. And then what happens is I
(09:05):
marry Anne and she basically says, of all the men
in the world, I choose you, Dave Wilson. You're the man.
But then he changes it. After that.
S7 (09:14):
We come home and all we hear is boo the
rest of the story. We'll tell you after the break.
S1 (09:18):
Ladies and gentlemen, the consummate radio professionals, Dave and Anne Wilson,
who know how to take us to a break. We'll
pick up that boo story on the other side of
this break. I've got a link to family life. I
know that we're talking to people all across the country
who listen. Isn't it a treat to be interviewing Dave
and Anne for a change? Their new book, How to
Speak Life to Your Husband when all you want to
do is yell at him back after this. When the
(09:47):
storms of life hit with hurricane force. How do you respond?
This month's truth tool is the Mediterranean Sea Rules, where
Robert Morgan writes how God will redeem our tragedies for
his purposes. Don't just survive the storms. Learn to serve
God in the midst of them. As for your copy
of the Mediterranean Sea Rules, when you give a gift
of any amount to in the market, call 877858. That's
877858 or go to in the market with Janet Parshall.
(10:13):
What a joy to spend the hour with Dave and
Anne Wilson. You know them as the host of FamilyLife today,
they've been talking and teaching and exemplifying what a good
marriage looks like. For decades, they got a brand new
book out now called How to Speak Life to Your Husband.
When all you want to do is yell at him.
What I love, by the way, for both of you,
is the absolute transparency in the way in which you
write this book. I you know, it's frustrating sometimes when
(10:35):
you see people and you think, boy, they got it
all together. Their checkbook is balanced, their kids are perfect.
Their house is spotless. I'm never going to be a
Christian like that. And when there was a shift somewhere
along the line in ministry where people decided that you
just had to say, look, I can't do any of
this without him, and I've got my failures as well.
And let me tell you what he's done in for
and through me. And I think that's been a paradigm
(10:55):
shift in how we minister to people. But I want
to go back to the booze story. So, you know,
all you hear is boo Dave from an and and
I loved it because it encapsulates something that I heard
Tim LaHaye say to me years and years and years ago.
He said, when a man wants more than anything else
from his wife is respect. So pick up that booze
story and tell me what you mean by that, because
(11:17):
I think it's a seminal point in the book.
S7 (11:19):
Yeah. I mean, I you know, as you said, it
opens the book because it was this moment in our
marriage where it is and again, this is the bad thing.
I had never said this to an ever, ever. So
here I am in front of a couple hundred women,
and obviously we should have had this conversation. But when
it came out of my mouth, I'm like, this is
exactly how it feels. I get cheered outside the home.
(11:42):
People think I'm good. They they like what I do.
I come inside the home and it feels like she's disappointed.
She wants to critique me. She wants to. I'm like
a fixer upper project, and I and I and I'd
never said it out loud. So when I said it,
I'm like, this is how it feels. And I think
a lot of husbands feel this. But then I look
over at Ann because I was now on the front
of the stage. She's sitting back on the stool and
(12:04):
she has this look like you are a dead man.
Wait till we get this car. And sure enough, we
got in the car. It was, oh.
S6 (12:13):
We got in the car. I don't even remember how
we ended, but we got in the car and I said,
you think I boo you? I am helping you. And
he said, does it? Does it feel like it's working?
I'm like, no, that's why I have to do it
more often. And sometimes I have to yell at because
you obviously aren't listening or getting it. And I'm telling
you that put us on a journey that really the
(12:36):
book comes out of that journey because God had to
really get a hold of my heart because I was
disappointed and I wasn't. I wasn't booing him to be mean.
I really thought, I can help you. And I wasn't
cheering him because I thought, everybody else is cheering him.
He doesn't need my applause. And I didn't want to
fake it either, because I thought he was kind of
(12:57):
failing in a way.
S1 (12:59):
So let me this is a cool hand Luke moment.
It seems to me what we've got here is a
failure to communicate. And why I love the book so
much is that I can so understand when Anne is saying,
it's like, wait, I don't know what my love language is,
but I'm doing all this stuff for you. Can you
not understand? This is my way of telling that I
love you. But to Dave, to your point, like you said,
you can have people cheering you on in every other
(13:21):
aspect of the work that you're doing. But if you
don't get that confirmation, that affirmation, that attaboy from your wife,
it just is the deepest of all wounds. So I
want to talk to you from a male's perspective. Why
is it so crucial that a man be affirmed by
his wife?
S7 (13:37):
Well, I think the hidden secret all of us men
carry around is we're still little boys inside. We don't
want anybody to know that we put on the facade.
We got it together. We got the house or the
car or the job. We've got success. But deep down,
we're still like. Mom, do you see me? Hey, look, look,
I'm doing good, right? It's still in there. And so
(13:59):
when our wife, who's the most important woman in our
in our life, sees greatness in us and speaks it out,
that's what the book's about when you speak life. Man,
I run home. I'm better than she even. It's just
it motivates a man. But when you speak death or critique,
I don't think it works. And I'm guessing it doesn't
work on women either. But it definitely doesn't work on men.
(14:21):
It's like I'm going to run to where I'm respected
and applauded. I'm going to run away from where I'm booed.
And so I found myself. And I'm not blaming Ann,
but I gravitated toward work, toward ministry, where they were
saying I was good. And when I came home and
heard boo, I said, okay, we'll see you later. I
went right back.
S6 (14:38):
Which made me boo even louder.
S1 (14:40):
Exactly, exactly. But it's like basic biology. Doesn't an amoeba
move away from negative stimuli? It's like, I don't want that.
I'm not going to come home and get that. But
what what is so tender hearted and bittersweet about this,
and it's a profound recognition that I know people are
resonating with all across the country, is that both of
you are coming at this from a place of love,
but it's getting misinterpreted somewhere along the way that you
(15:02):
want more than anything else. Dave, the affirmation for an
and an, you're trying to show them how much you
love him, but it's not getting translated that way. It's
coming across as negative. So now I want to turn
to you, Anne, because this is where the exhaustion of
being a wife and a mother comes in. Right? I'm
glad we have Mother's Day once a year. I'd like
a 365 days a year, but hey, that's just me.
But when you leave the toilet seat up and the
(15:23):
wet towels are on the floor, and I've told you
450 times, I'm not going to. Attaboy you, Dave. thanks
so much. How do I handle the fact that there isn't?
How do I speak life into the realities of everyday life?
S6 (15:35):
Well, I think I had to go before God. Honestly,
I had to start there. And I vented to God
when I got home from that car ride. And I
just said, God, can you believe this? And I think
it's okay to tell God what we're feeling. I was
so offended. But that's like confession, telling him the truth
of what we're feeling. But at the end of that prayer,
I said, God, do you think I boo Dave? And
(15:55):
you know, the Holy Spirit lives in us when we're
in Christ. And I just felt that affirmation of yes.
Start paying attention to your thoughts, which honestly, Janet, like,
I was like, oh yeah. When I started paying attention
to what I thought about Dave, it was generally negative.
And then I felt like he said, pay attention to
not only your words to Dave, but to your kids too.
(16:17):
And as moms, we're we're training, we're discipling, we're teaching.
But even with teenagers, it's easy only to see the negative.
And so that's where it started for me. And honestly,
my prayer became this is what I felt like God
was saying, and look for the greatness. And so that
was my prayer. God, show me the greatness in Dave.
(16:38):
He's made in your image right now. I'm not seeing
any greatness, which is crazy because we create these neurological pathways.
When we go negative, it's always negative. So God had
to do a transformation of my mind from Romans 12
two be transformed by the renewing of your mind.
S1 (16:56):
Wow. Let me take a break. This conversation, I can tell,
is going to go far too fast. And just for
the record, there's going to be so much more in
the book how to speak life to your husband. When
all you want to do is yell at him, then
even the precious, irreplaceable gift of one hour of Dave
and Ann's time is going to afford us. So if
we're piquing your curiosity, if your heart is racing a
little bit faster, if the Lord is speaking to you
(17:17):
through Dave and Ann Wilson, let me really encourage you
to get this book, because I know that God wants
us to have marriages that honor and glorify him in
all things. And guess what? When that happens, we get
a much better marriage. Who doesn't want that? More with
Dave and Ann Wilson right after this. Dave and Ann
(17:39):
Wilson are with us. They are the hosts of FamilyLife today,
heard all across the country. They've been teaching about marriage
for decades. And guess what? They're still learning. And that's
really what this new book is all about and writes it.
Dave puts in his reflections in the book is called
How to Speak Life to Your Husband, when all you
want to do is yell at him. Very realistic, transparent,
but biblically based. And the book of Proverbs, by the way,
(18:01):
is immersed in this book for which I'm very, very grateful. So, Ann,
when you're trying to do things differently, when you get
the nudging from the Holy Spirit that says, yes, the
booing is there, we're going to start speaking life. We're
going to build up rather than tear down. What happens
when pride comes in?
S6 (18:16):
Oh, that's exactly how it is going to say. The
reason I didn't want to do it was because of pride.
And so and this is an example I felt like
God was saying and just start small. And here's what
my thought was. Okay, I can start by just saying
thank you, but I didn't want to. This is so
terrible because, you know, I didn't want to. I thought, well,
(18:37):
I do everything around here and who thanks me. And
that's just pure pride. That is absolute pride. And so I.
S7 (18:43):
That actually was the truth too. You did everything.
S6 (18:46):
But still but still. And so I started very simply
because I it women will say to me, what am
I supposed to fake it and so but but sometimes
we step out in obedience unto God. Maybe your spouse doesn't.
And we're talking about a goodwilled man or woman. Like
it's this is this isn't somebody that's abusive. They're not
(19:07):
harming you. We say that if you're being harmed and
if you're in a dangerous situation, you need to get
out and get safe. That's the most loving thing you
could do at that point and get help. But I'm
talking about a goodwilled person. So for me just to say, okay,
I can start with thank you, Dave, for taking out
the trash.
S7 (19:26):
I mean, honestly, one night at dinner, our boys, we
had three sons. They're probably middle school. She just looks
at me before we eat. She says, hey guys, before
we eat, I just want to say something to dad.
And she says, hey, thank you. Thanks for working hard.
Thanks for doing extra work. Nobody sees all what you
do behind the scenes that helps provide this food. I
really appreciate it. The boys are like, can we eat?
(19:46):
You know, and I'm sitting there thinking, what is she doing?
She's doing what she read in a book. But you
know what happened? My my chest started pumping out of
my I was like, I am the man, aren't I?
You know, it was just like. It was amazing how
that little affirmation made me feel so good. And it
was just a small little words of life.
S6 (20:09):
I had no idea that my words would be so powerful,
more powerful than anyone else's. I had no idea.
S1 (20:17):
And this is why this conversation is so crucial to
be able to hear what you believe and experience out
of the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. We
think it's just a word. Just thank you. I can't
make that much of a difference. But yes, you start
with little and you build. And so Dave, it wasn't
just in the moment where she thanked you for all
that you do to provide for the family. You say
that it really changed the dynamic of the marriage. Now
(20:39):
some people might think, oh, that's too simplistic. You know,
just speaking words of life into a marriage can't possibly
do it. But it does. And it did in your case.
So how did you begin to change?
S7 (20:49):
Yeah. I mean, what happened is again, we're not talking
about this happened over a week or a month. This
took place over years. And again, I didn't know what
was going on behind the scenes, but she was starting
to think differently about me and then speak words of life.
And again, it wasn't every, you know, second, oh, you're amazing.
But it was like so much cheering and believing in me.
(21:11):
I mean, she started saying things like, you are a
good man. You're a good husband. You are really a
good spiritual leader of this family. And at first, Janet,
I was like, what are you lying about? You've never
said this. You know what is happening right now. But
it became something she was saying daily and I realized,
oh my goodness, she really believes this now about me
(21:33):
and is cheering me now. That doesn't mean she didn't
speak truth and hard things. She she did. But before
it was only that and I ran away. Now it
was like she believes in me and she's helped me
become better. And the thing that I think this book
is really about is women. You have power. God has
given you a unique influence and power, not just in
(21:54):
your marriage, but especially in your marriage, and you can
impact your man. It has changed our atmosphere. I run
home now, I really do. It's like I want to
be with this woman who really believes I'm something. You know,
the people out there don't think I'm much anymore. But
she does. And so I want to run home. And
that's what a woman can do. She can shape the
(22:14):
the atmosphere of their home and even their legacy.
S6 (22:17):
Well, and here's an example. My one of my biggest complaints.
I mean, Dave's a pastor, for goodness sake. He's an
incredible leader. But I had this image of what I
thought he should do to lead spiritually, our boys, to
mentor them, to disciple them. I had this whole thing
planned in my head of how he should do.
S7 (22:34):
It, and she told me all the time how I
wasn't doing it.
S6 (22:38):
And I talked to a lot of women, and this
is a thing that we we are frustrated over. And
so when I prayed that prayer, show me the greatness
in Dave. Like this one night he's in there, he's
praying for the boys. And he came out of the
room and I said, man, I'm so jealous of the
power you have with our sons. And he said, what
do you mean? I said, I just watched the way
(22:59):
you talk to them, and they cling to every word
you say. I wish I had that power because, you know,
they're just running all over the place and crazy with me.
But you have an incredible power. I don't even think
you realize the power and influence.
S7 (23:12):
You Janet. I can tell you where I was standing
when she said those words.
S1 (23:16):
Wow.
S7 (23:16):
Wow. And, you know, the next night, what am I
doing at bedtime? I'm running up the stairs. I'm in
there laying on the bed, reading the devo and praying
with these guys. I was like, wow. And then she
didn't do that.
S6 (23:27):
No, I didn't do it.
S7 (23:27):
To manipulate me to get there. But I realized, oh
my goodness, I, I do have power. And she's acknowledging
it and and applauding it, and it motivated me to
be even better.
S1 (23:39):
Well, that's the point I was trying to make earlier.
And I'm so glad you gave that excellent example, because
it isn't just in the moment. It really has a
way of changing the trajectory. So you want to be
the man that Anne said you are. So that compelled
you to go up there and have the devo time
with the boys, because if you're really the person who
has that kind of influence, like Anne says, well, I
want to make sure I use that influence to good.
(24:00):
So the power of a word, an apple of gold, right?
An apt word. That's why Proverbs weaves its way throughout
this book. Absolutely fabulous. Can you believe we're halfway through
this conversation? The book is called How to Speak Life
to Your Husband. When all you want to do is
yell at him. There is so much more in the
book and I'm glad I still have time. But in
the meantime, check the book out on our information page.
I've also got a link to Family Life Easy website familylife.com.
(24:24):
Check it out! More with David and Wilson right after this.
Tired of the endless, biased spin you hear on mainstream
media and in the market, we're using God's Word as
our guide as we examine today's events, and we want
you to be informed and bold about his truth. This
(24:44):
is a listener supported program, so if you value what
you hear and you want us to continue on your station,
become a partial partner with your monthly support, call eight 7758.
That's eight 7758 or go online to in the market
with Janet Parshall. How to speak life to your husband
when all you want to do is yell at him.
(25:06):
That is the new book by Ann Wilson, her husband
Dave offers his reflections to the book as well. Fascinating.
They are, of course, as we all know, the host
of FamilyLife today. They've been married for decades. They've been
spending just about the same amount of time teaching people
about marriage all across the country. They've been featured speakers
at Family Life's Weekend to Remember marriage getaways since 1993,
(25:27):
as well as hosting their own marriage conferences as well.
So this is the real deal. And I just love
this book because the mask is off. The reality is
there and it reminds us. And this is why I
keep going back to the reference to the book of
Proverbs about the power of life and death in the tongue.
And when Ann had a wake up call vis a
vis Dave, that all he hears from her is boo boy,
(25:50):
she went before the Lord got confirmation from the Holy
Spirit and started speaking life into the marriage, and things
changed dramatically. I have to tell you, there were so
many points in the book I laughed out loud. Maybe
it's because being Sadie, Sadie, old married lady myself, I
laugh because it's so universal and experience. So the chapter
about why don't I get a helper? Really resonated with me.
(26:11):
So I don't want the world to teach me theology.
And I'm in DC and I've debated every one of
these famous feminists multiple times and boy, you know, just
messed up ideas. So, Pastor Dave, I'm going to start
with you. So why? I mean, there's some things we
won't know because his thoughts are above our thoughts and
his ways are not our ways, but he makes a
suitable helper, right? Takes the rib out of the side
(26:33):
and creates Eve. Um, why do you think he makes
Adam first, not Eve first. And why does he get
a helper? But she doesn't.
S7 (26:42):
You're asking the same question an asked in in the book.
I think it's because the man was unfinished and he
realized I can do a lot better. And, uh, he
made the one. I'm kidding, obviously, but. And really did
dig in, uh, you know, as you, as you saw
a chapter about, you know, where's my helper? Why is
(27:03):
the man get a helper? I should get a helper.
And why? And it felt like, you know, helper means
a subservient.
S6 (27:10):
A little.
S7 (27:11):
Servant, you know, that just bows down to her man.
And then when you study the original Hebrew in the,
you know, the book of Genesis in chapter two and
Azer a helper suitable it's powerful. The power that he
has put in this wife to be a man's partner,
(27:31):
to stand toe to toe. It's like it isn't some
little servant that just, you know, does whatever the man wants.
It's like, no, you are his equal and he needs
you both need one another to accomplish God's mission and
to defeat the enemy in the garden. You can't do
it without her.
S1 (27:51):
Yeah.
S6 (27:52):
I love what Christy McClellan, who's a Bible teacher and
has written a bunch of Bible studies, but she is
a Hebrew culturalist. And so she studied over in Israel
for a while, and she asked a rabbi who was late,
probably in his 70s or 80s, but she said, Rabbi,
why do you think God says that Eve was to
(28:12):
be the helper suitable the aser conejo? And he said, oh, Christy,
I think because God knew there was an enemy in
the garden, and it would take the man and the
woman together to combat and to defeat the enemy. It's
when they both work together and I thought, oh, that's
so beautiful. We also in our when we do our podcasts,
(28:34):
our radio podcast, we have our guests for lunch one day.
We had all these theologians that had their doctorates in theology.
And so when I had all these guys in the room,
I remember saying, you guys, you a lot of you
are experts in Hebrew. What do you think when you
look at when you look at Genesis 218, what are
you thinking? And one of the guys.
S7 (28:55):
Doctor Jeffrey Myers, he's a PhD in theology. And he
I caught it on audio because I'm like, what he's
saying right now is so insightful. He just said, I
think when a husband looks at his wife.
S6 (29:08):
Stands toe to toe.
S7 (29:09):
Stands toe to toe, he sees in his wife's eyes
the man he can be.
S1 (29:14):
Mm. Wow.
S7 (29:14):
And it was so it was just like a mic
drop in the room where, like. Oh, because it's so,
you know, when I looked at my wife's eyes, I
saw disappointment, I saw failure. Like, I'm not measuring up.
And when, man, when you're the woman that and you
use that influence the way God intended, this man becomes better.
He sees like, oh, I can be a better man.
I can be a better husband. She believes in me,
(29:37):
not disappointed in me. And that doesn't mean we don't
struggle and have conflicts. And we, you know, every day
there's disappointments. But it means I see some greatness in you.
And it enables the man to see it as well.
And then I think it goes both ways. The man
can impart that to his wife as well. But man, women,
you have such incredible power that God has gifted you.
S6 (29:59):
And it's a different power than the culture's talking about. Yes, yes.
Culture saying, oh, you can be all that you can be.
And I would say, no, no, we can be who
Christ made us to be. And there's a difference in that.
It's our identity isn't just that we're amazing. Our identity
comes out of our position in Christ, and he's the
one that gives us the power in the way he
(30:20):
made us. It's very different. It's a subtle change, but
it's a really important difference.
S1 (30:26):
Profound. I want to linger here, and I know this
isn't necessarily addressed in the book, but I don't want
people to be stuck in bramble bushes of bad theology.
And we have to talk about Genesis, but you also
have to talk about the New Testament. So going back
to what Jeff said, and I just love his work,
by the way. Yes. To be able to say, you
see in your wife the eyes of the man that
you know, that you can become and that that that
(30:47):
suitable helper eye to eye, which is so tremendously important.
So fast forward to the New Testament, where the world
and I don't think it's the world, it's the world,
the flesh and the devil. And in this case, it's
the devil who's trying to twist scripture to the point
where it becomes a burden rather than a blessing in
our lives. So if you've got a right minded man,
as you said before, an how do you then square
off this suitable helper eye to eye to. Oh, but
(31:09):
I forgot to tell you, you've also got to submit. So,
Pastor Dave, break that down for me. How does that
dynamic work?
S7 (31:17):
Well, I mean, it's it's a picture of a beautiful partnership. There's,
you know, in any organization, in any family, there's a leader,
there's a follower, I think at times sometimes and leads
sometimes I lead, but I submit to her at different times.
But there's a role that we play that God has
instituted and said, this is the way it works best.
(31:38):
I gotta tell you, and's a better overall leader than
I am. She really is. And so there's times I
defer and want her wisdom, and there's times when she
defers and wants mine. And so again, it's a, it's a,
it's a beautiful partnership that because of our sin nature,
I'll just say because of my sin nature, we get
in fights about it, you know, because I want her
(31:59):
to follow me and she's wanted. But, I mean, it's
always going to be a tension. But when we say, okay,
first of all, I've surrendered and submitted to Jesus and
I want to do what he wants me to do.
That's how I want to lead in our family.
S6 (32:13):
And I would say the way that I teach it
when we're, um, doing our marriage conference is I hold
up an umbrella, and in the umbrella you have the
covering or the, you know, the canvas, and then you
have the support, which is the handle. And I'll say
to the women, if God has called the man to
be the leader, to be the head, and he's called
(32:34):
us to be the support to come in behind him
and with him. Which one is more important? Mm. And
I don't think you can say which one, because if
you only have the canvas, there's nothing to support it.
But if you only have the handle, you basically have
a lightning rod. And so I think they're both equally Important.
But the question is for me because I'm super strong.
(32:57):
I didn't want to be a doormat and I didn't.
And yet I didn't realize, oh no, no, no, that's
not what God's calling us to be. Helper suitable in submission.
We're all submitting unto Christ. Amen. It's a beautiful position
to be in. And it's it's a hard position at
times too, but it makes me have to submit daily
to my father, to God.
S1 (33:19):
Yeah, exactly. But going full circle to the primary spinal
column of the book, which is really about the power
of life, the power of speech, that apt word, the
controlling of the tongue. You know, I'm I'm I submit
to Christ because I trust him. I love him. He
keeps me safe. Um. And I know no matter what,
he won't stop loving me. So I'm happy to submit
(33:40):
to Christ to make that transference. And this is a
paradigm again, for Christ and his relationship with us. I
am only too happy to submit to a husband who
does the same thing. Makes me feel safe, may feel
makes me feel secure. I can trust him. He'll never
stop loving me. But going to your point, Dave, I
have the opportunity to help my husband be that man
when I speak life into the marriage. So there. This
(34:02):
is connecting the dots as clear as can be. It
seems to me.
S7 (34:06):
Yeah. And I think, you know, the one of the
things the book tries to highlight is, again, the power
that the wife has compared to everybody else. You know,
when somebody comes up to me as a, as a
pastor and says, you're amazing, I smile and say thank you.
They don't know because they don't see the ugly and
the bad. When Ann says to me, you're amazing. I'll
(34:27):
run to the top of the world. It's like she
sees the negative, she sees the bad, and she still
believes I'm amazing. That's I mean that. I mean, I've
been I've been beside pro athletes when a fan will
come up and say, you're amazing and they just smile
because they know. Yeah, they don't really know me. They
just see what I do on a football field. But
(34:47):
when your wife who sees it all, the good and
the bad and the ugly says, I believe in you.
You're special. I affirm you. That man is going to
be a good man.
S6 (34:57):
It's a reflection of the gospel. Christ sees everything in
us the good, the bad, the horrible. And yet he
still loves us and pursues us. And that's a reflection.
Marriage is a reflection of that.
S1 (35:09):
1,000%. Well, you mentioned a Doctor Fisher in the book
looking at the brain. I love this section, but because
the brain can tell us something about people who are
madly in love, share that with me.
S6 (35:21):
I thought this was fascinating to Helen Fisher. She studied
couples that had been married more than 20 years. And
here's what she. She was looking for. She's looking for
couples that said they were still madly in love with
one another. And so she studied these three areas of
the brain. And there's one area that's responsible for a
phenomena called positive illusion, or focusing on what you like.
(35:47):
It's fascinating.
S1 (35:49):
And what a great place to leave it hanging. As
we go to a break, let's find out what Positive
Illusion is all about. The brand new book by Dave
and Anne Wilson is called How to Speak Life to
Your Husband. When all you want to do is yell
at him, Anne Rice. And then Dave offers his keen,
important reflections at the end of every chapter that Anne
has written. It's a marvelous book. You'd expect nothing less
(36:09):
from the hosts of family life. Today we're going to
come back and we're going to talk about that positive
illusion and the brain of happily married couples back after this.
(36:33):
Dave and Anne Wilson are with us. Their brand new
book is called How to Speak Life to Your Husband.
When all you want to do is yell at him.
And in the book, they write about the work of
one doctor, Helen Fisher, who wanted to do some work
on couples who still said they were madly in love.
They had to be married over 25 years, and she
found some absolutely fascinating things about the brain. Now you
talk about the new frontier. Forget Mars. I think we
(36:55):
need to do more exploration in the brain because there's
such fascinating stuff here. And what you write about in
the book is that she said there was a phenomenon
called positive illusion. Now, I found this part of the
book absolutely fascinating. And what is the positive illusion that
she found?
S6 (37:10):
It's so funny because what she found is that people
that have positive illusion are focusing on what they like
about their spouse. They're seeing the positive. Now, I would
say Dave does that. He, you know, he would rate
our marriage a ten. And I would think, well, that's
because you're in denial or you're clueless or you don't
(37:32):
even care enough to know that we're actually like a 0.5.
But she's saying, no, these couples are looking for and
they see the good in each other. And the spouse
would say, oh, they see me way better than I
actually am. And I was like, I was dumbfounded by this.
And so I see that again as Romans 12 two,
do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed
(37:55):
by the renewing of your mind. And so I love
that brain science is now catching up with the Bible.
What God says because as we as and also Scripture says,
take every thought captive. And so where I would just
think these negative thoughts all the time about Dave. Now
God's saying no. And I felt like one time I
was just in this bad place complaining about Dave. I'm
(38:18):
doing the laundry, I'm folding clothes and going through my
list of all the things he's doing wrong. He's not home.
He's not helping. I've had the opposite of positive illusion,
and I felt like God said, what would happen if
you prayed for him as much as you complained about him?
And this is where we can take those thoughts captive,
and we can try to see good in our spouse.
(38:39):
We can even text our spouse, hey, thank you. Or
I see, I saw that you did this. And I
think that's really important.
S7 (38:46):
And I'll just add, you know, we started with the
boost story over the years and decades. This is not
an exaggeration. There is no one in the world that
cheers me more than Anne. She is my greatest cheerleader.
Every day she sees greatness in me. She calls it out.
It's amazing. And again, this didn't happen over a week
(39:09):
or even maybe a year. But over the years, it's
like she really believes I'm a good man, husband, dad.
And that makes me want to be even better. And
we have that power.
S6 (39:19):
Well, this one night. And maybe this will be helpful
to to your listeners because I was asking God, where
do I start? And I felt like one of the
places not only could I start with saying, show me
the greatness of Dave, but I tend to be a
verbal processor. And so if I think it, I generally
will say it.
S7 (39:38):
Yep. She does.
S6 (39:39):
So this one night I'm starting to really work on this.
And and so I felt like God was saying an
ask me should I say it? Then asked me if
now's the time or what should you say and how
should you say it? So this one night David had
a huge day.
S7 (39:56):
Yeah, I come home after preaching five times, being on
the sideline with the Lions, just a long weekend, and
I crawl in bed and say, at 1130 at night,
all I want to do is go to sleep. But
I say, man, I'm getting a lot of critiques lately
on my sermons.
S6 (40:09):
And Janet, this is embarrassing, but what came to my
head was I was going to say, this is what
came to my head. Well, if you would spend more
time studying the scriptures, I think your sermons would be
way better. And I thought, well, that will be helpful.
But I asked God, God, should I say it? No. Okay, okay.
It was just a minute. It took a one second
(40:29):
to pray. God, should I say it? No, Lord, should
I say anything? Is there anything I should say? And
then this this thought popped into my head. And so
I said it. And here's what I said. I can't
imagine what it's like to be you. You have thousands
of people depending on your walk with God. What a
weighty thing that must be to carry. And then there's silence.
(40:54):
And then he pulls me over to himself. He hugs
me and he whispers in my ear, you are my life. Wow.
Now what if I would have said, if you just
study the word more, you know, and this is where
I'm like, God's on our team. He wants to help us.
He's wanting our marriages to be better, and he will.
He's walking right alongside us in this.
S7 (41:17):
And again, you know, Janet, uh, she knows I do
need to be in the word more. And she didn't
say any of that. Guess what? The next day I
wake up and I'm thinking, you know, I need to
study better. But if she would have said that, I
would have maybe slept on the couch. I don't know, but.
S1 (41:32):
Yeah.
S7 (41:32):
You know, I didn't think I'm going to hold her
and say, you are my life. I just that was
a spontaneous response because that's the power that a woman has.
It's like you see all the bad and you still think,
I'm great. You are my life. I can't do this
without you.
S1 (41:47):
Dave. You used that idea of power over and over
and over again, which I find so beautiful, because I
think it's important for women in particular to hear that
because so often when they're burdened by the, the, the
tyranny of the mundane, that they sometimes don't feel that
they have any power at all. Going back to Helen
Fisher for a minute, the converse reaction was for people
who don't feel that they're madly in love with their spouse.
(42:09):
They look for things to criticize. So you walk through
the experience of asking the Lord, I love the fact that,
you know, quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger.
You waited for the Holy Spirit to nudge you and
give you a response. You know, we all know there
are people listening right now who are thinking, yeah, I
want that. And no way. You don't know my husband
can't do it. But there is a lot of implied
and stated volitional ism in what you've been talking about
(42:32):
over the last hour and give some encouragement to people
who think I. You don't know my husband. I just
can't do it. Where do they? What is the first
step that they take if they want to breathe life in,
if they want that apple of gold, that apt word,
where do they begin when they think, you know, for
the last 15 years, all I've done is criticize. I'm
sticking here because the Bible says I shouldn't get divorced,
(42:52):
but I sure don't have any butterflies in my stomach.
S6 (42:55):
I was at that point, and I have women all
the time come up to me and say, I can't
do this, there's nothing to cheer. And what I would
say is, God is cheering for your spouse and he's
cheering for you. And so I think the most important
step is, is you surrender to Jesus. Honestly, every day
I'm laying down my life saying, God, I can't do
this apart from you. I need your help. I need
(43:17):
to say and do the things that you would say
and do. Fill me, Holy Spirit, I need you. That's
the first step.
S1 (43:25):
Well, Dave, is there anything a husband should tell a
wife if he's so wounded by the booze, he doesn't
think there'll ever be any cheering.
S7 (43:32):
Well I would say don't do it on a stage.
Do it in the kitchen after the kids are in
bed and it's a quiet moment. Be gentle, be soft. Um,
I again, it's a hard thing to say, but to
be honest and trust God. And I would say, pray first,
say God, give me the words and then speak the truth.
S6 (43:53):
And if I were a wife, I would ask your husband,
do you think I cheer for you or boo more?
S1 (43:59):
Yeah, well, oh, what rich, rich conversation. Like I said,
I'm married longer than you two, and I'm learning things
out of this book. You're never too old. And it's
never too late to really and truly submit to the Lord.
Ask him to put his words in your mouth to
find the cheering rather than the booing. This book is fabulous. Again,
it's called How to Speak Life to Your Husband when
(44:20):
all you want to do is yell at him. I
encourage you to read it. Thank you David and what
a great conversation. See you next time, friends.
S8 (44:28):
Retractable claws up to 1.5in long, capable of jumping 36ft.
A roar that can be heard five miles away. The
lion King of the beasts. Picture yourself surrounded by several.
Like Daniel, he determined to prey, though he knew he
(44:48):
would pay. Are we willing to face the lions of
our culture? Be a Daniel. A challenge for Moody Radio.
S9 (44:58):
How long have you been a part of the Moody
Radio family?
S10 (45:01):
Well, I've been listening to Moody since 1993. And, I mean,
I get up with Woody, I go to bed with Moody,
and it just. It's been a blessing in my life
for all these years. The teaching and the worship. And
Moody is a station that is really rooted in the
Word of God. In the series about who is God.
S9 (45:20):
Serious about God? That's us. And we're seriously grateful for
listeners like you.
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