Best of In The Market with Janet Parshall: Understanding Prayer

Examining actual prayers from Scripture, our guest, Dr. Sam Storms, will highlight the transformational power of petitioning God, debunk misconceptions, and explore the often-ignored importance of the communion of saints and the divine role of angels. Join us to learn about the power and purpose of prayer.

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Episode Transcript

S1 (00:00):
Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
and I truly hope you hear something that edifies encourage, equips, enlightens,
and then gets you out there in the marketplace of ideas.
But before you go, I want to tell you about
this month's truth tool. It's called Have You Ever Wondered?
And I absolutely love this topic because if you're like me,
going out into the night sky and looking up and
seeing a million stars, don't you just stop and think

(00:22):
about God? And are you not in a moment of
awe and wonder or looking out over the vast expanse
of an ocean and you start thinking, what is man,
that thou art mindful of him? And it makes you
wonder about the magnificence of God? I think that sense
of wonder was put there on purpose, and this wonderful
book includes a composite of multiple authors who have written

(00:42):
from their perspective as a scientist, or a historian, or
a mathematician or an artist, on why they all have
this sense of awe through the work that they do.
In other words, the heavens declare the glory. And as
it tells us in Romans, we are really without excuse
because his handiwork is everywhere. And this book invites you
to walk through the chapters written by people who all

(01:03):
have a sense of awe and wonder when it comes
to God through their various disciplines in life. It's an
amazing book and it's yours. For a gift of any amount,
just call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58. Ask
for a copy of Have You Ever Wondered? And we'll
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(01:24):
Parshall and you're also on the website, consider becoming a
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or the website in the market with Janet Parshall. Consider

(01:46):
becoming a partial partner or asking for this month's truth tool.
Have you ever wondered? And now please enjoy the broadcast. Hi, friends.
This is Janet Parshall, and I want to welcome you
to the best of. In the market. Today's program is
prerecorded so our phone lines are not open. But I

(02:06):
do hope you'll enjoy today's edition of the Best of
In the Market with Janet Parshall.

S2 (02:10):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.

S3 (02:12):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.

S4 (02:15):
Americans worshiping government over God.

S5 (02:17):
Extremely rare safety move by a man.

S6 (02:19):
17 years. The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.

S5 (02:23):
This is not over.

S1 (02:38):
Hi, friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall.
I am thrilled we are going to spend the hour together,
and we're going to take up a very important and
quite frankly, a precious topic, and that is our ability
to talk to God on a regular basis. I mean,
do you love the fact that Scripture says we don't
have to ask permission, set an appointment. Work through a
handler that we can boldly approach. The throne of Grace

(03:02):
should take your breath away. You know that prayer, when
you think about it, is really a love language, is
it not? This breathing in and out, this intimate connectedness
with the unconditional lover of our soul? Now that's the
good stuff. Now here's the problematic stuff. Why is it
so many of us really dread prayer? We get distracted,
we fall asleep. We think it's hyper formulaic. We can't

(03:22):
quite figure out whether God is hearing our prayers. If
he does, how do I know the answer? If he's sovereign,
am I changing his mind? And if I'm not changing
his mind, what's the purpose of prayer after all? So
it really can be this precious linkage we have with
the one who knows us so intimately. He knows the
numbers of hairs on our head. Why is it also,
at the same time, an onerous practice for so many people?

(03:43):
That's what we're going to do this hour. We're going
to try to help better understand prayer. And the reason
we don't have our usual opening for doctor sandstorms is
because this hour we're not taking questions. We're sitting at
his feet and we are learning. After all, this is
a man who knows the word inside out, upside down.
Taught theology at Wheaton for several years. This is a
man who founded Enjoying God Ministries. Executive director of the

(04:05):
Convergence Church Network. Previously served as senior pastor of Bridgeway
Church in Oklahoma City. A former professor, as I noted,
and I want you to know that Doctor Saum speaks
at churches and conferences around the world. He's the author
of over 35 books, including Practicing the Power and Understanding
Spiritual Gifts. He blogs regularly at Sam Storms. His new book,

(04:26):
which is well, I've been thinking about this as I've
been reading the book. It is theologically rich. It is
one of the best and deepest books I've ever read
on prayer. It's called Understanding Prayer Biblical Foundations, and Practical
Guidance for Seeking God. So roll up your sleeves and
get ready to think critically and biblically about the topic
of prayer. Sam, the warmest of welcomes and you kind

(04:46):
of hinted at the answer. The first question I wanted
to ask you at the very beginning pages of your book,
which is, you know, you've taught and preached for years
and written for decades, and if you're going to approach
the book on prayer, there has to be either a
suggestion from an editor. And I think you're so much
bigger than that that you can take it under advisement,
but you're going to write about what's fire in your bones.

(05:09):
But you also hint in the beginning that this is
a tough book for you. In fact, you almost walked
away from the project at one point. Tell me why.

S7 (05:16):
Probably Janet, for the same reason that everybody struggles with
this issue like you just mentioned. Excuse me? I, um,
you know, I've, I've wrestled with the question of unanswered prayer.
I've wrestled with the question of, well, won't God do
this for me even though I don't ask him to? Um,
we get so easily distracted. I'm very I'm very influenced

(05:39):
by two things that Paul said, basically the same thing
he said in Romans 1530. He is appealing to the
Roman believers to, he says, struggle together with me in prayer.
I think really If Paul recognized that prayer was a struggle,
then he says it again in Colossians chapter four, verse 12,
where he talks about Epaphras who has struggled with you

(06:01):
in his prayers. And I think prayer is a struggle.
It's a battle. It's a fight. You mentioned several of
the reasons we get distracted. We think we don't have
enough time for it. Uh, we've we've been disappointed by
the fact that in the past, when we prayed for
something and it didn't come to, it didn't come about,
or we're suffering and God hasn't healed us, or, uh,

(06:24):
the enemy wants to to invade our lives and convince
us that prayer is a a fruitless and futile endeavor.
And you know, why would you think that God would
listen to you? I mean, who are you? You know,
all of those kinds of accusations and those, uh, that
opposition just puts a damper on all of us. And
we just think, is it really worth the effort? And

(06:46):
then there's this there's this underlying theological error which says, well,
God's going to do what God's going to do regardless
of what I ask him to do. You know, he's sovereign.
He'll accomplish his will, irrespective of my participation in the
implementation of that will. And I think all of those
reasons are kind of combined to create the challenge that
I had. I really questioned when I wrote this book,

(07:08):
am I even competent to write this? I'm not a
great prayer warrior. I mean, I think I'm better at
it now than I used to be, thank the Lord.
But I still find myself so easily justifying just quitting.
That's the easiest thing about prayer. Just quit and everything
will turn out all right. Even if you don't ask
God to do things for you. And that mentality is

(07:30):
paralyzing to the life of prayer. And I think all
of those factors played a role in why I struggled
to even justify writing this book. Plus, the fact that
there are a lot of other books out there that
are really good on this subject.

S1 (07:44):
Yes. But on that point, did you preach a series
on prayer? Does this come out of your years of
being in the pulpit or in the classroom? Because when
I say theologically rich, that's just not being cavalier with terms.
What you do is you really throw out the entire book,
study various prayers, and use them as an archetype for
us to be able to study what prayer does, the

(08:05):
efficacy of prayer, what prayer is all about. Did you
do that as a singular research project, or did it
really come out of your years of teaching and preaching?

S7 (08:13):
It came out of the latter, out of my years
of teaching and preaching. So when I thought about doing this,
I went back and I looked at everything that I
had preached when I preached through the Gospel of Matthew
and Mark, and particularly John, uh, I looked at the
prayers in the early church in the book of acts.
When I preached through acts, I did it in Romans,
did it in Second Corinthians, Ephesians, all of the New

(08:33):
Testament letters that I had preached through. Uh, James, you know,
when I preached through the, uh, the book of James,
probably 2 or 3 times over the last 50 years,
and all of these texts just kind of coalesced into
this unified approach to the subject of prayer. So one
of the things about this book and I mentioned this
in the introduction, unlike a lot of books, you don't

(08:55):
have to read this cover to cover chapter by chapter,
because each chapter is pretty much a standalone, and you
can just benefit from it, because I ask questions in
the chapter titles and whatever issue it is you're struggling with,
I'll look at all the text of Scripture that I
think are relevant for that. So I think the only

(09:15):
chapters that really kind of have to tie together are
the ones that I did on James, and you kind
of have to read those in sequence, but anybody, anything else,
people can just pick it up and just say, well,
here's my struggle. Oh, there's a chapter that addresses that.
I'll read that one.

S1 (09:28):
Do you know Sam reading the book? I'm so glad
to hear you say that. And I was delighted to
read it in the introduction to is that this is
such a powerful and very broad and deep, rich dive
into the subject of prayer. I'm just going to say publicly,
I'm so grateful for our friendship because I finally gave
myself a break and said, Janet, you don't have to
cover the whole book in one conversation. So based on
the fact that you kindly come back again and again

(09:50):
and again, I'm going to spread conversations about this book
over a long period of time, because there's just so
much here. But when we come back, we're going to
start digging into prayer back after this. Have you ever
wondered why music moves us so deeply, or why beauty
takes our breath away? My Truth Tool this month is
a thought provoking book that explores those moments of wonder

(10:11):
we all encounter. It's called Have You ever Wondered? Consider
how ordinary aspects of life point to the extraordinary biblical truths.
Ask for your copy of. Have you ever wondered when
you give a gift of any amount to in the market,
call eight 7758. That's eight 7758 or go to in
the market with Janet Parshall. Doctor Sam Storm says a

(10:32):
brand new book out shouldn't surprise any of us. He's
a prolific author. He's written dozens and dozens of books.
But this one, well, from my perspective and I read
an awful lot of books. As you well know, this
is one of the best I've read on the subject
of prayer. It's over 336 pages long. And Doctor Sam Storms,
in his inimitable style, just examines what the word has
to say, and then looks at various prayers and scripture

(10:54):
as a tutorial on how we can pray and to
better understand the nature of prayer. Again, it's called understanding, prayer,
biblical foundations, and practical guidance for seeking God. So, Sam,
if I may, let me go back to starting point
principles and being the outstanding teacher that you are, I'm
not surprised that what you did is take out your
pruners and wanted to cut away some bramble bushes and
our thinking about prayer. So I'm so thankful you started

(11:15):
by asking the question why prayer? And does prayer really
change things? So let me go to the second part first,
which is this is this question in and of itself,
which is why I made the comment before the break.
I'm glad I don't have to rush through covering everything
that's in this book, because there's so much. But this
question really goes to the question of the sovereignty of God.
So if God is the same yesterday, today, and forever,

(11:36):
if he's all knowing and he already knows, you know,
the beginning from the end. And I really I mean,
the arrogance, I think to myself, Jenny, you're never going
to change God's mind. So if if his nature is unchangeable.
And yet I'm called to pray, help me understand the
dynamic between, uh, a failed mortal addressing an immortal king

(11:57):
who is sovereign and knows all things. So why engage
in the activity of prayer? Because he's not going to
change his mind, is the answer. Hint that it's about
changing me and not changing him?

S7 (12:10):
Well, yeah, that's that's oftentimes that's how people answer that question.
They say no, prayer doesn't change God. Prayer changes me.
Or they might say that prayer doesn't change things. It
implements things or something to that effect. This is you're right.
This is the issue between the sovereignty of God and
human responsibility. And my, the best way I know how

(12:34):
to answer this is with what I think. If people
read the 330 some odd pages, if they come away
with one statement that is seared into their minds. It
is this we should never presume that God will do
for us. Apart from prayer, what the Bible says he
will only do for us in response to prayer.

S1 (12:55):
Mhm.

S7 (12:56):
Wow. I think that that is that reveals, I think,
a mindset of Christians. I alluded to it in our
first segment where people have this idea, well, look, God
is good, God is great, God is sovereign. He's going
to do whatever he wants, regardless of what little old,
puny me has to say about it. And so we
think I don't need to pray he'll pull it off.
That's that's his job. He's God. And I think that

(13:18):
is horribly presumptuous because God has. And this again, is
the challenge to us all. God has chosen to suspend
the accomplishment of his sovereign will on the prayers of
his people. Now, I can't resolve the mystery there. I
don't know how to make complete logical sense of that.
But the fact of the matter is, we need to

(13:40):
remember that our prayers that God would do something are
as much a part of his sovereign ordination as is
the thing that we hope will come to pass as
a result of them. So prayer is one of the
means by which God accomplishes his purpose. So I don't
I don't want to sound, uh, I don't want to
sound mean when I say this, but when people say, uh,

(14:02):
why should I pray if God is sovereign is going
to do what God wants to do? That's really an
that's not a valid statement. That's bad, that's unbiblical. The
Bible never asks that question. It never addresses that issue.
What it says is that James chapter four, you have
not because you ask not. Now, if somebody wants to

(14:24):
push back and say, wait a minute, Sam, maybe I
don't have because it wasn't God's will for me to have. Well,
maybe that's true, but that's not how we're to respond
to a text like that. How are we to respond?
We're to respond by asking Because we don't have. Because
we didn't ask. That doesn't mean if we ask, we'll
always get what we want. Because God is wiser than

(14:44):
we are. He knows what is best for us, not ourselves.
So this this tension between us, you know, the God's
sovereignty going to accomplish his purpose. Let me let me
get you said this is a theological book. So let
me get theological for a second. Um, God's decreed purpose,
his decreed will, the will that he has that we

(15:05):
call the secret will of God, the sovereign will of God,
the things that he has ordained from eternity past, such
as the incarnation of Christ, the resurrection, uh, the second
coming of Jesus, the final judgment. No amount of prayer,
by no amount of people will change or alter God's
purpose in accomplishing those things. We know that's true, but

(15:29):
God's sovereign will is oftentimes in fact, most times it's secret.
We don't know what is God's will in this respect
or that respect. And so our responsibility is to respond
to his revealed will. Like, um, you know, in the
Lord's Prayer. Thy will be done on earth as it
is in heaven. Um, so, you know, uh, second Corinthians

(15:49):
or first Thessalonians chapter four, this is the will of
God for you, even your sanctification, that you abstain from
sexual immorality. So we pray for the implementation of that will,
the one that is revealed to us. Here's what God wants.
Here's what he desires. That sometimes is different from what
he decrees. But we can't base our decision either to

(16:09):
pray or not to pray on that. We can't say, well, um,
I think God's sovereign purpose is to accomplish X or Y,
therefore I don't have to pray about it. That is
just it's arrogant, it's sinful, it's presumptuous, and we need
to stop thinking in those terms. We need to remember again,
we have not because we ask not. We we must

(16:31):
not let our lives be governed by this idea that
since God is God and he's he is, uh, good
and gracious and generous, he's going to do for me
whatever he wants to do, whether or not I ask.
And I just think the answer to that is no,
he isn't. He has suspended the bestowal of his blessings
on the petitions and the intercession of his people. So

(16:54):
I know that's hard for people to reconcile, but there's
no way to get around the clear teaching of Scripture
in that regard.

S8 (16:59):
Mhm. Mhm.

S1 (17:00):
I have so many things to say in reaction to
what you just said. Let me go to first. This
is again why I'm so glad we're going to take
our time walking through this book Sam. So rather than
a position of passivity what the way you just explained
it and I think there's so much truth in what
you just said, is it moves me into a clearing
call for action. If, in fact, so much is there

(17:21):
and active into what God's will is, his perfect will
is is predicated on whether or not his people will
respond in prayer. It's an encouragement for me not to
be lackadaisical in my prayer life, but to be faithful
and to pray within the parameters of God's will, as
noted in Scripture. So that's a challenge. It really goes
to the heart of that question, why pray for the
reason that you just explained and then we come back?

(17:41):
Is this too simplistic to say that not understanding again,
my role as a mortal and his divine sovereignty is
that somewhere in the same area as the difference between
election and free will, or is that too simplistic? In
other words, I don't know, I still gospel, I still
share the gospel back after this. Doctor Sam Storms is

(18:02):
with us, founder of Enjoying God Ministries and executive director
of the Convergence Church Network. He has a brand new
book out and boy is great. It's called Understanding Prayer
Biblical Foundations and Practical Guidance for Seeking God. And it
is noted before 336 pages long. I don't say that
to push you away from the book. I encourage you
to read it because that's how deeply theologically I'm going

(18:24):
to say it again, rich and wonderfully researched, this is.
And so I'm not going to rush through my conversations
with Sam on this book. Every single section is worth
our doing. Some deep diving and some thinking. So my
question was cryptic, Sam, because I was up against a break.
So let me see if I can say it in
a better way. So I don't understand the interesting mystery
of election and free will. In other words, God already

(18:46):
knows who's going to accept or reject him. Free will
says you have the choice to reject or accept. All
I know is I'm called to go and share the
gospel of Jesus Christ. I don't know who God knows,
I just know in obedience I'm supposed to do it
because that's what my father's asked me to do. I
see a little parallel between that and this idea of
God being sovereign. And what difference does it make if

(19:07):
I pray? I don't know what God's perfect will is.
So in obedience I do it because I'm asked to
do it, but I leave the outcome to him. I
just make sure I'm praying within the parameters of his
will as articulated in His Word. Is that right or wrong?

S7 (19:19):
No, that's exactly right. And in fact, what I would
and I you know, in past programs we've done together, Janet,
that question is raised about the sovereignty of God and
human responsibility and what I try to communicate, what I
tried to communicate then, and what I'll try to communicate now,
is the Bible does not give us an answer to

(19:39):
that tension. It doesn't say, well, here's how they're reconciled.
You've misunderstood the issue. It's not as problematic as you think.
That's just not in the scriptures. God leaves that in
the area of mystery, and we just simply have to say, um, God,
like at the end of Romans 11, he is infinitely wise.
Who can understand his ways or his judgments? So let
me give you a concrete example of this. So in

(20:02):
Romans nine, Paul talks about the sovereignty of God and salvation.
He says, for example, um, that it doesn't. This is
in verse 19, um, excuse me verse. Yeah. Verse 19
or 16. So then it depends not on human will
or exertion, but on God who has mercy. And then
he goes on to say, uh, he has mercy on
whom he wills, and he hardens whom he wills. And

(20:24):
you would think, well, okay, Paul, if that's the case,
then I don't I can't tell God to do this
or that. I can't appeal to him to intervene in
the life of, of of a friend or a spouse
or a child, to change his or her heart. And
yet just a few verses later in Romans chapter ten,
verse one, Paul says, brothers, my heart's desire and prayer

(20:46):
to God for them, that is, for my Jewish brethren,
is that they may be saved. And I think, wait
a minute, Paul, you just said that whether they are
saved or not is depends on God. He decides whom
to on whom he has mercy and he decides whom
he hardens. But now you're saying that you're praying for
all your Jewish brothers and sisters according to the flesh,
that God would save them? How do you reconcile that, Paul?

(21:09):
And of course, the answer is silence.

S1 (21:13):
Yes, exactly.

S7 (21:14):
Even attempt to reconcile it. He says, I live. I
live according to the truth of both of those propositions. Yes,
God is sovereign. Ultimately, all praise and honor go to him.
It is not dependent on man to run or to will,
but on God who has mercy. Oh, but I am
going to pray that God's mercy would be poured out
in saving grace on all these individuals that I know

(21:36):
don't love Jesus. So, you know, I know people want
us to be more specific and precise and nail this
issue down so they can get on with other things
in life. But the Bible doesn't do that, and I
think that's intentional. I think there would probably be a
lot of arrogance and passivity on our part if we
knew the answer to that question. I think we would

(21:56):
go to 1 or 2 extremes. We would say, well,
the salvation of individuals is entirely dependent on me and
how persuasive I am in sharing the gospel, or whether
they get saved, has nothing to do with my efforts
and my evangelism. God's going to do what God's going
to do. Those two extremes are not allowed in God's Word.
They are both condemned. We have to embrace both. You know, Paul,

(22:20):
at the in the opening of Romans nine, he says,
I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart.
I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut
off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my
kinsmen according to the flesh. And then he goes right
into this treatise on God's sovereignty and salvation and says,
But I'm praying for them. I pray that God would
open their eyes to the truth of the gospel. So

(22:42):
it is a mystery. It's one that we can't resolve.
I've long ago given up any hope of finding an airtight,
logically coherent answer to that. I know they're not contradictory
because God does all things perfectly. But it's one of
the great issues when we finally are in his presence.
And we can ask that question.

S8 (23:01):
Yes.

S1 (23:01):
Amen. And you use the word. When you were talking,
I thought, not only is it a privilege, is it
a blessing? I mean, the idea of being able to
walk into a throne room. You know, I've been in
some throne rooms, and you just don't touch the king.
He talks to you before you talk to him. All
of the mumbo jumbo that goes dealing with an earthly king.
And yet I'm talking to the King of kings, and
I'm told I can run right in there and lay

(23:21):
my requests at his feet. So there's this intimacy. There's
this air of holiness, and then there is this mystery.
And I think we deny the mystery part at our
own peril, because we don't understand. We don't have all
the answers, but God asks us to do it, invites
us to do it. So do it in one section
of the book. Virion. Early in the beginning you talk
about otherwise. And I love this section because we must

(23:42):
pray otherwise. So let me give you an example. I'm
always talking about Paul tutoring his young protégé, Timothy talking
about praying for those in authority. Maybe it's because I'm
in Washington DC, and it's a pretty mandatory prayer around here,
but you say that if we don't pray for those,
I urge you that with supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings
be made for all people, for kings and all who
are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful

(24:04):
and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. Now
you hear the music. So let me ask you on
the other side. So there's that directive from Paul to Timothy,
likewise to us. Why must we pray that prayer? What's
the otherwise? And there's a whole bunch of you discuss
as well. I'd love for you to touch on some
of those. This is we're not even into the full
first chapter yet. Do you see how much richness when

(24:26):
I use this word? I don't use it in a
cavalier fashion. As I was reading it, I thought, every
one of these ideas is so wonderfully fruitful. It was
for me and the way I look at prayer and
why prayer is designed to do what it's done, and
the guidance we have in Scripture regarding prayer. I thought
this is a treasure. Understanding prayer, biblical foundations, and practical
guidance for seeking God. Doctor Sam Storms brand new book.

(24:49):
More after this. We can all safely say that society
seems to be decaying before our eyes, and in the market,
we're tackling the issues head on from a biblical perspective,
so you'll know how to influence and occupy a Scripture
says become a partial partner today and support in the market.

(25:11):
As a benefit, you'll receive exclusive resources every week prepared
just for you. Call 877 Janet 58 or go online
to in the market with Janet Parshall dot. Org. It
is always time well spent when we spend it with
Doctor Sam Storms. He is founder of Enjoying God Ministries
and executive director of the Convergence Church Network. He previously

(25:33):
served as senior pastor of Bridgeway Church in Oklahoma City
and is a former professor. He speaks at churches and
conferences around the world. He's the author of over 35 books.
And now we add one more to that number. It's
called Understanding Prayer Biblical Foundations, and Practical Guidance for Seeking God.
It's right there on our information page, you can click
on the link to discover how you can get your copy. Also,

(25:56):
I have a link to his website. As you know
from our wonderful frequent conversations with Doctor Storms, he's a
kind of Library of Congress when it comes to resources
as you're trying to grow in your relationship with Jesus Christ.
So check that out. But also the brand new book.
Well worth your time. Simply one of the best I've
read on prayer in a long time. So early on
in the book. Just to repeat, for those who are
just joining us, you have a section called otherwise really

(26:18):
addressing the question why pray? And as one of the
examples that you give, it's the first Timothy two one
and two, where Paul is encouraging Timothy for us to
pray for those in authority. Otherwise what?

S7 (26:32):
Otherwise, the church will experience hardship and face obstacles that
hinder the fulfilling of our calling. Paul makes it clear,
he urges, that supplications and prayers be made in order
that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly
and dignified in every way. So the only conclusion I.
Excuse me. Allergies in Oklahoma. Hit me again. Um, it

(26:57):
seems as if Paul is saying. And he does this
in many places, not just Paul, but Jesus as well.
If you do not pray for those in authority, there's
a very good possibility that your life won't be peaceful
and quiet and godly and dignified, because you will find
your governmental leaders in opposition to you. So yeah, this

(27:18):
this otherwise principle really hit home to me because, you know,
we were talking earlier about the sovereignty of God and
human responsibility. I would say for the majority of my
adult Christian life, I emphasize the sovereignty of God more
than my responsibility. And I think after reading the New
Testament and the Old Testament as well, and digging into
this issue, I've, I've kind of made the shift. It's

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not that I overemphasize responsibility and diminish God's sovereignty. I've
just come to recognize it in a fresh way. And
that's why this word otherwise came to mind. So, for example,
Jesus says, whatever you ask in my name, this will
I do in order that the father may be glorified
in the son. Well, I guess that must mean if
I don't pray, otherwise God won't be glorified. Or, uh,

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until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask
and you will receive, in order that your joy may
be full. So if we don't pray, we don't get joy. Uh,
there's so many of these statements. I mean, Paul on
several occasions prays or asks that the Thessalonians and the
Colossians pray that the word of the Lord may spread
and be honored, and that God would give them an

(28:27):
open door and boldness. Otherwise, if we don't pray for that,
there won't be open doors. There won't be clarity of
proclaiming the truth. Um, you know, you think of, uh,
James chapter five. Confess your sins to one another and
pray for one another so that you may be healed.
So why should we pray? Because otherwise they won't be healed.

(28:49):
Doesn't mean that every prayer for healing will will come
about as we hope that it will. But it almost,
almost definitely means that if we don't pray, they won't
be healed. So seeing these these statements, these purpose statements
in especially in the ministry of Jesus, pray in order
that God may be glorified, pray in order that your
joy may be full. Well, those are I don't know

(29:12):
any Christian who would say that those are unimportant or
second and negligible and can be neglected. So it's that
emphasis on the role that prayer plays in the implementation
of God's purposes that has gripped me and driven me
to write this book more so than any other motivation.

S8 (29:31):
Wow. Wow.

S1 (29:32):
So good to hear. Let me go back to James five,
13 and 14 because again, I think I want to
get rid of some of the stumbling blocks, which allows
us then to go deeper into other areas. So you
just touched on this. If anyone among you, is anyone
among you suffering? Let him pray. Is anyone among you sick?
Let him call for the elders of the church and
let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in
the name of the Lord. Now you said something I

(29:53):
want to extrapolate out so people heard it. It's not
necessarily saying. And this goes to the bigger question of
does God care? Does he hear my prayers? And why
should I pray? I don't think he answers. Or when
I ask for something, when I think it's the right
and good thing to do, that sick person get healed.
And he didn't. Well then that goes to not only
the sovereignty of God, but the character of God. He
can't be a loving God because he didn't heal this

(30:14):
person I was praying for. But you said something important
that I want to make sure our friends heard, which is,
I don't know if a person is going to be healed.
That is the sovereign will of God. But what you're
challenging us to think about is not praying at all.
Does what in the situation does prohibit God from healing
a person? I mean, there is, again, it's that interesting

(30:35):
tension between active and passive in our relationship with God.

S7 (30:38):
Well, you're exactly right. Again, we can't presume one way
or the other. We can't say, well, for example, let's
say that we pray for somebody who's suffering and nothing
happens in that very moment. Does that mean we cease praying?
Maybe God wants us to pray a second time and
a third. Maybe he wants to mobilize the entire church
or a small group to regularly pray for a person.

(31:00):
And God does that because it magnifies his mercy and
his sovereignty, and it also creates a greater sense of
dependency in our hearts on who God is and what
he chooses to do. Or it may be that God
doesn't heal the person at all. Well, there are factors
that we can't all explain. I mean, there are numerous
reasons for that. Maybe the presence of a demon, maybe unbelief.

(31:22):
It may be that God is using that affliction to
sanctify them. I mean, if Romans 828 is true, and
I believe it is, we must recognize that in the end,
if God does not answer my prayer for something to happen,
it's because he's working through that particular circumstance for my
greater good. So, you know, that whole, um, that whole

(31:43):
story or that whole narrative in James five is so important.
And I think one thing that helps me and I
hope this will help others. Unfortunately, our English versions don't
show this, but it says in verse 15, after he says,
let the call for the elders and pray over them,
anointing them with oil in the name of the Lord.
And this says, and the prayer of faith will save

(32:03):
the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise
him up. What the what the English translation doesn't show
is that the definite article precedes the word faith. It's literally.
And the prayer of the faith will save the one
who is sick. Now, I can't be dogmatic about this,
but I think Paul's referring to the spiritual gift of faith.

(32:23):
I think he's saying whether or not God chooses to
heal this person when you pray for them, is dependent
upon whether or not he has granted you, or one
of the elders who's praying the spiritual gift of faith,
which is, as I define it, that extraordinary surge of
confidence that God's going to do something right now for
which I have no biblical warrant. You know, I tell

(32:44):
the story in the book of how that happened with
me and a little three week old baby when I
was pastoring in southern Oklahoma. And, uh, we prayed for
this child who had a life threatening liver affliction. And
I suddenly found myself incapable of doubting. I knew that
God was going to heal that kid. Now people say, well,

(33:05):
that happened every day with you, Sam. I'm 74 years old.
It's happened once. One time. I wish I could say
it happens every day. It doesn't. God is sovereign over
to whom he gives. And when he gives the gift
of faith. But I think that's explains this passage a
great deal. God must grant the faith that he requires

(33:28):
for a person to be healed in a miraculous way.
Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. But regardless, it's interesting.
After this, as you know in verse 16, Paul or
James goes on to say, therefore confess your sins to
one another and pray for one another, that you may
be healed. So it's not just prayer by the elders,
it's every Christian praying for one another. And by the way,

(33:50):
isn't that interesting that he seems to suggest that mutual
confession of our sins is very much required for prayers
to be answered. So when I pray for people who
are sick and hurting, I always ask them. I said,
let me ask you something. Is there a relationship in

(34:11):
your life? An incident in the past or present in
which you were deeply wounded by somebody and you have
not yet forgiven them? Can you? Can you identify that?
And almost all of them will say, well, yeah, I
got several of those. Have you forgiven them? Well, no,
because they don't understand what forgiveness is usually. And James
seems to be saying, confess your sins to one another

(34:33):
and pray for one another, that you may be healed.
So that's another factor that enters into whether prayers are
answered or not.

S1 (34:41):
You talk about not just the power of prayer which
you've been discussing, but the urgency of prayer. What do
you mean when you use the word urgency? And why
is there an urgency to prayer?

S7 (34:52):
Well, I hope, I hope I'm not sounding redundant here,
but it's because God has chosen to suspend the blessings
upon his people when they ask him. You know, that
is one of those there's I think it's in Isaiah
30 or 33, I can't remember exactly. Um, yeah. It's
in Isaiah 33. Fascinating statement. Um, where basically, uh, the

(35:16):
prophet says, um, Lord, we wait for you, um, come
and and help us and heal us and do this.
And it says, the Lord says, I will do it
when you cry out to me when you make the
appeal to me. So the urgency is, um, again, coming

(35:38):
back to otherwise. Otherwise, if we don't pray right now,
when the Lord lays that burden on our heart, we
may lose the opportunity to see him act in an
incredibly powerful way. Um, let me give one other example.
I think this is one of my favorites in all
of Scripture, and I have an entire chapter on this
in the book is Paul's prayer at the end of
Romans 15 when he he says, I appeal to you, uh,

(36:02):
strive together with me in your prayers to God on
my behalf. So Paul saying, I'm striving, I'm struggling. Would
you join me in that in order that I may
be delivered from the unbelievers in Judea, and that my
service for Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints? And
the amazing thing, Janet, is that when you read acts
chapter 21, they prayed that and God answered. And Paul

(36:26):
was delivered from his enemies in in Judea, and his
offering to them was acceptable. So here are these people
in Rome, praying for the the acceptance and the endorsement
of Paul in Judea. And it happened.

S9 (36:41):
I mean, that changed the course of history for the church.

S1 (36:44):
Exactly. And exemplifies the power of prayer. Doctor Sam storms
our guest his brand new book, Understanding Prayer. More after this.
Doctor Sam Storms is with us with a brand new book.
It's called Understanding Prayer Biblical Foundations and Practical Guidance for
Seeking God. And can I point out to you that

(37:05):
this wonderful conversation thus far hasn't taken us out of
the first chapter of the book, which is, again, why
I'm so thankful for Sam's regular appearances on this broadcast,
so we can take all the time necessary to really
do a deeper dive and a greater understanding of this
precious privilege known as prayer. Which takes me to the
word intercessory. Tell me what that means, why we have

(37:25):
a directive from Scripture to do that, and then how
that ties in to Andrew Brunson's being held in prison
in Turkey.

S7 (37:33):
Oh, yeah. Um, we at Bridgeway, when I was still there,
we had a prayer meeting every Wednesday from noon to one.
And for the gosh, it was almost a year and
a half that he was imprisoned in Turkey. We made
prayer for his release, the central feature of what we did.
And I know there are countless churches, probably hundreds of
churches around the country in the world who did the

(37:55):
same thing. And I think, you know, I can't can't
prove it. But I think, uh, from what I know
of Scripture, that when we get to heaven, we're going
to discover that God said I orchestrated that such that
my bringing about his release in the way that it
happened was in response to your prayers for him. So intercession, um,
is specifically praying for another individual. It's inter it's placing

(38:19):
yourself into their life, bringing their burdens to God, and saying, Lord,
I need you to act on their behalf. I need
you to do for them what they otherwise can't do
for themselves. And I think one of the important passages
on this that I go into in detail in the
book is from Luke chapter 11, where Jesus says, if

(38:40):
you being good. I mean, if you being evil, know
how to give good gifts to your children, how much
more will your Heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit and
good things to those who ask? I mean that those
three words. How much more so important? Um, so I
think about, you know, I'm looking through my out my

(39:01):
office here, and I see my little two and a
half year old grandson playing out there with my wife.
And I think I'm I'm a depraved person. I'm a
sinner who needed the grace of Jesus. But I'd do
anything in my power for that little kid, and I'm
not going to go over and offer him a, you know,
hide behind my my hand, behind my back, say, hey,
I got a cookie for you. And when he reaches
back there, he gets a scorpion. I would never do that.

(39:24):
How much more will your father give the Holy Spirit
to those who ask him? So we have to ask.
We have to plead with him to do that.

S1 (39:34):
Amen. Again, I'm not going to rush through any of this.
So we've just talked about God and the sovereignty and
praying within the parameters of his will, and knowing that
there is an urgency to prayer and how intercessory prayer works.
But then you talk about the things that do change
when we pray. What are those?

S7 (39:54):
Well, the things that can change and do change, I think,
are the things that are the revealed will of God
in Scripture. So by reveal I mean their explicitly stated
in the Word of God. He says, this is my desire.
This is my will, my wish for you. And those
things are dependent upon our praying them into reality. And

(40:14):
God wants us to do that. So, you know, I
come back to, uh, let's just I mentioned it earlier,
first Thessalonians four. This is the will of God, your sanctification,
that you abstain from sexual immorality. Well, we know that
many Christians don't abstain from sexual immorality. They indulge in it.

(40:35):
And yet we know. So we know. In that sense,
God's will is not accomplished. But it is our responsibility
to pray that the Holy Spirit, who lives in each believer,
would strengthen us to resist temptation to commit that sin.
Excuse me again. So that's what I think is the
emphasis of God's word. And, uh, let me just say

(40:56):
one other thing about this. Um, because this may be
my last comment about the book. Not everybody's going to
like everything that I write about in this book, because
I do go after a few sacred cows and I
slay them with one, you know, swipe of the sword
of God's Word. One of them being Matthew 18 and

(41:17):
the statement, wherever 2 or 3 are gathered in my name,
there I am among them, and I'll do it for them.
I just encourage people to read my chapter on that
and to realize that in context that's talking about church discipline.
And the 2 or 3 who ask and agree are
the 2 or 3 who bring the complaint against the
sinning brother and the two who come along as witnesses.

(41:39):
It's by the evidence of 2 or 3 witnesses. That's
the 2 or 3 that he's talking about. Now, having
said that, I think it's wonderful when Christians join together
in prayer. When they agree with one another, they bring
their petitions to the throne of grace. I think that
is very, very important. And I just don't think Matthew
18 is talking about that. So it's so important that

(42:01):
we really read God's Word in context and not just
pull a verse out and live by it, but look
at what precedes and what follows so we'll know precisely
what Jesus was talking about.

S8 (42:11):
Amen. Amen.

S7 (42:12):
And can I say one more thing before we go?

S8 (42:14):
Janet, please.

S7 (42:15):
All right. One of the most amazing texts on prayer
in the Bible is in revelation chapter eight. Now, I
know there's a lot of dispute about revelation, but here
John is talking about the Seven Seals, and he says,
an angel came and stood at the altar with a
golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer
with the prayers of all the saints on the golden

(42:38):
altar before the throne, and the smoke of the incense
with the prayers of the saints rose before God from
the hand of the angel. And then it says, the
angel took the censer, and he threw it on the
earth and peals of thunder. All these things and the
seven seals are poured out upon an unbelieving world. I
think John is saying there that one of the ways

(43:00):
that God uses our prayers is in the implementation of
the final expression of judgment that will come about against
an unbelieving world. So on the one hand, we pray
that God would save them, whether it's in his sovereign
will to do that we don't know. But we also
read here about the prayers of the saints that God
will be vindicated, and that his judgments against an unbelieving

(43:22):
world will be implemented in a way that brings him
glory and most honor. That passage in revelation eight is
astounding to me.

S1 (43:31):
Yeah, and what a dramatically different way to look at
that as well. Uh, again, I want to tell my
friends that's chapter one. There are 336 pages in this book,
and I'm so thankful, Sam, again, I'll say it publicly
that because of your kindness and appearing regularly on this program,
we have the the benefit, the luxury, if you will,
of really being able to take our time. You break

(43:51):
the book up into prayer in the life and ministry
of Jesus, learning about prayer from the Apostle Paul, coming
confidently to the throne of grace, learning about prayer from James.
We touched on that a little bit today, and then
some concluding thoughts footnoted references to Scripture all over the place.
This book is designed to help you think first, last
and always, biblically, but also critically. Like what Sam just
said about that passage in revelation. If you disagree, get

(44:14):
into the word you know these are not reasons to disfellowship.
These are reasons to roll up your sleeves and dig
in more into the Word of God. And I promise you,
there is a ton of stuff in Sam's brand new book,
Understanding Prayer Biblical Foundations, and Practical Guidance for Seeking God.
Every single one of us would have to say if
we're being truthful with one another, that prayer is an
area where we need some work. We have to cut

(44:36):
away some of the bramble bushes to use that word
picture again. But to understand the power that resides within
the parameters of prayer. Sam, thank you for a first
of what I pray will be many conversations on this
brand new book. Thank you friends. We'll see you next
time on In the Market with Janet Parshall.

S10 (44:52):
Retractable claws up to 1.5in long, capable of jumping 36ft.
A roar that can be heard five miles away. The
lion King of the beasts. Picture yourself surrounded by several.
Like Daniel, he determined to prey, though he knew he

(45:13):
would pay. Are we willing to face the lions of
our culture? Be a Daniel. A challenge for Moody Radio.

S11 (45:23):
How long have you been a part of the Moody
Radio family?

S12 (45:25):
Well, I've been listening to Moody since 1993. And, I mean,
I get up with booty, I go to bed with Moody,
and it just. It's been a blessing in my life
for all these years. The teaching and the worship. And
Moody is a station that is really rooted in the
Word of God. In the series about who is God.

S11 (45:44):
Serious about God? That's us. And we're seriously grateful for
listeners like you.