October 4, 2025 • 45 mins
While the discouraging state of the world can leave us feeling uncertain about the future, God made His plans known to us far in advance so we can live with hope and expectation. Pastor Gary Hamrick will join us to help us understand Revelation’s vital teachings about Jesus Christ, Earth’s final days, the millennial kingdom, and heaven. Join us as we explore God’s extraordinary plan to punish evil, establish worldwide justice, and reward His own with an incredible inheritance for all eternity.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:00):
Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
of In the Market with Janet Parshall, and it is
my most sincere hope that you are edified, equipped, enlightened,
encouraged and then it makes you just want to get
out there in the marketplace of ideas and influence and
occupy until he comes. But before you start listening, let
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you about this month's truth tool. It's called The Steadfast
Love of the Lord by my friend and frequent guest,
(00:22):
Doctor Sam Storms. You know, he tells us that so
often we struggle with this idea of feeling like we're
loved by God, or that somehow we've done something that
separates us from the love of God. But we fail
to remember the Scripture that reminds us that while we
were yet sinners, not perfect, not all put together, not
everything's all been worked out while we were yet sinners.
That's when Christ died for us. Love is an action word,
(00:44):
and that's what Doctor Sam Storms reminds us in his book,
The Steadfast Love of God. I don't know about you,
but with the headlines of the day, being reminded of
who God is is about the most precious news I
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(01:05):
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(01:27):
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And now, with all my heart, I hope you hear
(02:10):
something today that really changes your perspective and makes you
excited about being a follower of Jesus Christ. Enjoy the program!
Hi friends, this is Janet partial and I want to
welcome you to the best of in the market. Today's
program is prerecorded so our phone lines are not open,
(02:30):
but I do hope you'll enjoy today's edition of the
Best of In the Market with Janet Parshall.
S2 (02:35):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (02:37):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (02:40):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S5 (02:42):
Extremely rare safety move by a May.
S6 (02:44):
17th years the Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S3 (02:48):
This is not indicative.
S1 (03:03):
Hi friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall.
I am thrilled we're going to spend the hour together.
If you're stuck in rush hour traffic, just take a
deep breath because we plan on helping you set your
mind on things above this hour. If it is, as
we used to call it in my house, the arsenic
hour where the kids are running around post-school, pre-dinner, take
a deep breath because again, you're going to be edified
by what you're going to hear this hour. So if
(03:25):
I were to say to you, out of the 66
books that make up the Bible and remember, the Bible
doesn't contain the Word of God, it is the Word
of God. All 66 inspired, inerrant, transcendent applies to all
people in all times, in all places. How many of
you would say the Book of Revelation will wait? The
buses will wait. I'll look for Show of Hands. Yeah.
(03:45):
And then a bigger question. Why is it that some
churches and this is an indictment, this is just curious
minds want to know why is it that far too
many churches treat the book of revelation like Goldilocks is porridge? porch.
For some people it's just too hot. And they just
they're going to get into it and everything is tied
back to the book of revelation. The other 65 books. Okay.
But this is the one that is everything. The end
(04:06):
all and be all, or for others, it's too cold. No, no, no,
you know, it's we're far, far too sophisticated to bring
that into our lives right now. That allegory has no
application for the 21st century mind. And then you get
these pastors that are dead right, dead center understanding that
Jesus shows up in Genesis and weaves himself through every
single one of the 66 books, and that rather than
(04:26):
be tied up and be afraid of dragons and beasts
and bowls and scrolls, that the book of revelation, when
you think about it, when you really get into it,
is one of the most exciting of the 66 books
to read. And it's all about Jesus, not meek and
mild warrior, king, conqueror, God incarnate. And it really is
(04:46):
an absolutely fascinating book. But I will grant you that
you and I need a good teacher to help us
really understand it. And sometimes you can be so highfalutin
that you can't get down to where we common folk
are to really understand this. But again, God raises up
men who know how to preach the whole counsel of
God and to do it line upon line and precept
upon precept. And one of those people is Pastor Gary Hamrick.
(05:07):
I love his teaching. He does it with such clarity.
He does it with such application, and he isn't worried
about whether or not it offends. He never wants to
be offensive, but it is everything that God says because
he understands. Every word is there for our edification, as
the word itself tells us. He's got a brand new
book out on the book of Revelation. It's called standing
(05:28):
on the Edge of Eternity. Let that title sink in
for a minute, and it's subtitled The End Times According
to Revelation. Now, if you don't know who Pastor Gary is,
you're in for a treat. He served as senior pastor
at Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia, since 1991. And I
have to tell you, that church is just a miracle
story in and of itself. It's home to several thousand
weekly worshippers, and that doesn't count the thousands who watch online.
(05:52):
And I believe in transparency and good journalism And full disclosure,
Craig and I are two of those thousands of people
that watch online, and we are such faithful attendees. We
love his teaching, so his desire is to do exactly
why we fell in love with the church. His desire
is to reach people with the truth of the scriptures,
so they might experience a personal relationship with Jesus Christ
and become mature in their faith. He's been married to
(06:14):
his wife, Terry for a long time. They have three grand,
three children. And Gary, I got to tell you, brother,
your bios already out of date because it says age,
grandchildren and baby Noah's not counted in there.
S7 (06:25):
You're right. We have nine grandchildren now, so thank you, Janet,
for having me. It's a joy to be with you.
S1 (06:31):
Oh. Thank you. It's a joy to be with you.
And I have to tell you, our mutual friend, Anne
Graham Lotz just rereleased a book that she wrote a
few years ago about revelation. It was called The Vision
of His Glory. And I don't know something's happening among
God's saints right now. We're writing and talking and teaching
about revelation is really prescient in their lives. Why so
for you too?
S7 (06:49):
Well, for me, my desire was to try to take
a book that people otherwise think is complicated, and to
pare it down to small bites that people could read
and digest and really appreciate the Book of Revelation instead
of being afraid to read it. Because I think too
many in the church today. And you said it well
(07:12):
at the intro, are reluctant to read it, and pastors
are reluctant to teach it. And and really, it's a
wonderful book that presents to us the a timeline of
events that are about to happen, culminating, of course, in
the return of Christ and our future to spend eternity
with him. So it really is a wonderful book that
(07:32):
much of the church has neglected, because I think they
look at it as too scary, too daunting, too complicated. But, um,
I just had a desire to break it down in
small bites so that people could easily understand it and
digest it.
S1 (07:45):
And can I tell you that is the perfect encapsulation
of what you've done? Like I said, I just read
Anne's book. I've read lots of other books on revelation.
But Gary, I got to tell you, what I love
about yours is the absolute. Colloquial approach you take to this,
you break it down in very understandable ways. We look
at it big chunks, themes at the end of every
verse or every chapter. Rather, you ask us to reflect
(08:06):
on what you've just said. So you give us study
questions that, in my way of thinking, is always the
hallmark of a good teacher, because it's like what you
teach us on Sunday morning. For those of you taking notes,
I'm one of those people taking copious notes. But somehow
when you answer the question, it gets written better, quicker,
faster on the tablets of your heart. So I love that.
And then you also end with an important takeaway that
can be applied to us today, which I think makes
(08:28):
it again one of the best books I've ever read
on revelation. So personally, and I want my friends all
across the country to hear this. I think it's one
of the best out there, and I thank you. And
I was thinking, as I prayerfully prepared for this and
read it, I thought, there's 22 chapters. Gary and I
are not going to get through 22 chapters of this book.
So I thought, well, let me do a flyover and
at least pick some of the things that are the
ones that talked about when people are having coffee with
(08:50):
their friends and they decide to segue into a conversation
about revelation. The best place to start, if I can,
is exactly what you do at the beginning, which was
this beautiful way in which you lay out the kind
of eschatological timeline that we read in the Book of Revelation.
And I'm coming up to a break, and I don't
want to have to interrupt you, but can I ask
you to get started? And when you hear the music,
wherever we stop, we'll pick it up from there. But
(09:11):
why don't we start with John himself? You know, when
we stop and think about those who lay down their
lives for the cause of the cross, John is troubled.
And then he gets put into this island where he's imprisoned.
But explain the island to us. What would Patmos have
been like in John's day?
S7 (09:27):
So I went to Patmos for the very first time
a few months ago, and I was there as part
of a tour. I was leading through the footsteps of Paul, actually,
but we made a little diversion into the Aegean Sea,
where the island of Patmos is, and it was a
prison camp where Domitian had sent John because of his
faith in Jesus Christ. So it was a labor prison camp,
(09:48):
but it was there that Jesus revealed these words to him.
S1 (09:52):
You're sensitive to the music and I thank you for that, Gary.
So let's pick it up. And when we come back,
we're going to still have John there on the island
of Patmos. So something, well, astounding, something supernatural happens to
him when he's on that island. And for a lot
of people, that's the first sticky wicket. They can't get
past the idea that what was John seeing? Was he
suffering from old age? Delusion, hypothermia? What was going on there? Gary,
(10:14):
we'll break that down for you. His new book. My recommendation.
Best I've read yet on the book of revelation. Standing
on the edge of eternity. Back after this. If you've
ever felt unworthy of God's love, we need to remember
(10:35):
that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
That's why I've chosen the steadfast love of the Lord
as this month's truth tool. Unworthiness doesn't disqualify you from
God's love. It magnifies it. As for your copy, the
steadfast love of the Lord when you give a gift
of any amount to in the market, call eight 7758.
That's eight 7758 or go to in the market with
(10:56):
Janet Parshall. What a joy to spend the hour with
Pastor Gary Hamrick. By the way, not only is he
the senior pastor at Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia, Gino
also sits on the board of directors at the Museum
of the Bible and the Family Research Council. That's what
happens when you get a church right there in the
shadow of the US Capitol. He joins us today with
a brand new book called standing on the Edge of
(11:17):
Eternity The End Times According to Revelation. And by the way,
if I may, this is one of those books. The
primary source is always the word itself. But I don't
know about you. When I'm in the word, I like
to have resources around me that help me better understand
my primary teachers, the Holy Spirit. But then there's books
that I like to have next to me. This is
the kind of book you want right next to you
when you're doing your personal study time. In the word
(11:38):
of revelation, Gary will literally walk you through this. That's
his hallmark, by the way, as a preacher just takes
a passage. We are currently going through Galatians, and it's
just fabulous because he takes the meat right out, and
he gets us to get off that diet of milk
and to get some spiritual heft on our bones by
getting in the Word of God. And we so appreciate that.
So when last we met, John was at Patmos. He
(11:58):
was there. He had been confined to that island. And
then he has this supernatural experience. Describe Gary. What happens?
S7 (12:05):
Well, in revelation one he tells us that the reason
he was there on Patmos, it says, for the word
of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. So
he had been banished there as punishment for his faith
in Jesus Christ. And while he's there on this island
in revelation 110, it says that he says, I was
in the spirit on the Lord's day. And I heard
behind me a loud voice as of a trumpet. And
(12:27):
the Lord Jesus then begins to speak, and he hears
this audible, uh, revelation of Jesus Christ, which is important.
This is not the revelation of John. This is the
revelation of Jesus Christ as he imparts all of this
information to John. And then John begins to write what
what he hears and the visions that he sees. And
(12:50):
and God appears to him in this miraculous way.
S1 (12:54):
You mentioned something that I think is very important because
for a lot of people, and again, because we're talking
to people from Guam all the way to the Cayman Islands,
you and I can presume that people are at various
stages in their walk with the Lord. So sometimes the
allegory makes them step back or they think it's future.
So therefore it doesn't have any relevance to me. You
say that there are three interpretations allegorical, historical and literal
(13:17):
or futuristic. Can you break that down for us.
S7 (13:19):
The allegorical method, people who interpret it that way, which
I don't hold to, but they think that everything about
revelation is symbolic. It's just about good versus evil, paganism
versus Christianity. Um, the historical view puts all of revelation
in an historical rear view mirror. And basically they say
(13:39):
things like, um, the Antichrist was Nero and the suffering
of revelation in relation to the tribulation period was the
the suffering of the early church. And and so I
hold to and I'm not the only one. Obviously this
is a position that a lot of people hold, which
is this is a literal book that we should understand literally.
(14:01):
Does it have symbolic language? Well, of course, because John's
writing in the first century, looking down hundreds of years,
if not millennium. And so he is trying to use
language to describe things that he sees in the future.
But this is a literal book, and especially beginning in
chapter four, verse one, all the things that follow are
(14:22):
really in the future. Now, I think that there is
an exception. I think there's a looking back in a
couple of places. I think the fall of, of Satan's
rebellion that we read about in revelation chapter 12, I
think that's a look back. But otherwise, the majority of
the book is looking forward, and it is a literal
book about literal events that will take place later. The
(14:46):
symbolic language is just John's inability to communicate in words
that we could understand. You know, I liken it unto
if George Washington were to come across a cell phone
in his day, how would he describe a cell phone?
He would talk about it like a rectangle of metal
and glass, like a mirror. I see little people and
(15:07):
has sound, but I mean, you know, he John, is
trying to communicate things into the future, but it is
a literal book that we should understand that way.
S1 (15:15):
Exactly. And you used a term I didn't know before.
Now I'm the better for it. The Polychronic view. That's
very important.
S7 (15:22):
Well, yeah, because, uh, we, we tend to like things
in American Western culture in a monochronic way. Like, we
want one, two, three. We like it in order. A
polychronic view is, um, I compare it to if you
were to stand in a circular room and it's an
art gallery and it's not necessarily in 1 to 3
(15:45):
chronological order. The the eastern mindset, where John would have
been writing from is one that presents pictures in circular ways,
and so we shouldn't always see everything in this monochromatic way.
It's it's kind of a circular view of what is
to come. And that's sometimes difficult for the Western mindset
to understand.
S1 (16:06):
But you create a great word picture. You said it
would be like us standing in a room and there
were televisions projecting different images all around us. They're all
part of the inclusive story. They're different aspects of the
story being viewed at different times.
S7 (16:19):
Correct.
S1 (16:20):
I thought that was very important. The other thing you
point out, too, is that we talk about the church age,
and the church age is going to end when we
talk about the rapture. Now, I love this conversation because
there are there a myriad of views on this. First
of all, I think it's important that you explain what
your view is. You and I share it. I think
it's biblically defensible, but there are a myriad of other
(16:41):
views out there on this.
S7 (16:42):
Well there are, um, my view is that these these
seven churches, the letters to the seven churches, they were
literal churches in existence. Uh, each church was an actual
church located in what is today modern Turkey in the
first century. But they are also churches that are spiritual
in relevance. In other words, each church addresses spiritual issues
(17:04):
that are relevant to believers today. And then they also, thirdly,
have an historical significance because each church represents a distinct
time period of church history. So what I do in
the book is I walk people through the seven churches
to reflect the a timeline of the history of the
church up to and including the church today, which is, is, um,
(17:28):
is a divergent. There's a divergent stream where there is
a Church of Philadelphia today, and there's a Church of
Laodicea today. The Church of Philadelphia, I hope we all
belong to is believers. That's the legitimate church. That's the
evangelical church that's going to be raptured. The church of Laodicea. Well,
that's the lukewarm church, Janet. That's the woke church that
(17:49):
will not be rescued because they aren't really believers, but
they think they are. And so the seven churches paint
a picture for us. That is an important aspect of
what the church is like even today.
S1 (18:01):
And I have to commend you. I thought I could
just take the whole hour and do nothing but talk
about the seven churches, and if I did that, there'd
be so many things I couldn't talk about. But let
me just tell my friends that it is deep theology,
taught with absolute clarity and application for today. This is
why I love the book so much. Standing on the
edge of eternity. Back after this. Standing on the Edge
(18:27):
of Eternity brand new book by Pastor Gary Hamrick, Senior
Pastor at Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia. By the way,
they have a radio program. It's called Cornerstone Connection, and
it plays on over 200 stations each weekday all across
the country. I have a link to Cornerstone Chapel. It's great.
It's user friendly, it's chock full of information, and you
can join the tens of thousands of people globally who
(18:48):
watch the services at Cornerstone Chapel. In fact, I want
you to know one of the things I love about
Cornerstone Chapel is they actually have a family picnic for
people who listen online. And, Gary, people come literally from
around the globe to this thing, which is just stunning
to me. Yeah.
S7 (19:03):
That's amazing. Yeah. We're always so blessed to see people
come and join us for that.
S1 (19:08):
Amen. That's so wonderful. All right. So I want to
I want to do the finish of the flyover because
I think that's important. Then I'm going to pick out
a couple of those big sort of headline stories that
come out of revelation. So we talked about the church age.
And I would love for you to explain the difference
between the rapture and the Second Coming. For a lot
of people, they think they're one and the same. And
then what happens in between the rapture and that moment
(19:29):
when he comes back like a thief in the night?
S7 (19:31):
That's right. And that's a great question, because when we
talk about the second coming of Christ, it's a broad
term that really, um, communicates two aspects. The. The first
part of the second coming of Jesus is only in
the air to receive the bride, and that's the rapture
of the church, where we will be caught up and
we will. We will be with the Lord, and we
(19:54):
will be rescued, because following the rapture is seven years
of tribulation that come upon the earth. And then after
the tribulation at the end of the tribulation, it culminates
with the battle of Armageddon. And then Jesus Christ comes again.
But this time he comes to the earth, and he
and he comes to the same place from which he ascended.
(20:14):
He comes back to the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem.
And he sets up his kingdom for a thousand years.
And he rules and reigns from Jerusalem. So the two
aspects to the second coming of Christ are the rapture,
which is he only comes in the air, and then
his second coming to the earth after the tribulation period.
So it's a broad term, but it really communicates two aspects.
S1 (20:37):
Absolutely now so that everybody listening can say that you
understood exactly what happens. Gary, am I right in saying
that not a single prophecy has yet to be fulfilled
before the rapture of the church takes place?
S7 (20:50):
Yeah, that's that's correct. There are still Bible prophecies that
we're looking forward to that have not yet been fulfilled,
but nothing that is needed before Christ returns. I think
the the biggest one, of course, that was fulfilled when
Israel became a nation again in 1948 and a fulfillment
of the dry bones from Ezekiel 37. So really, we're
just waiting at any time now, Jesus could sound that
(21:13):
trumpet and we go to be with him.
S1 (21:16):
And nothing would be worse than to be left behind.
So to anybody who's listening right now, they could be
able to say when they put their head down on
their pillow tonight. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt,
that if Jesus were to rapture his church out of
the air at midnight tonight and we don't know, no
man knows the hour of the day. Not even the son,
only the father. What would you need to do to
(21:36):
be prepared for when that happens.
S7 (21:38):
Yeah. Every person needs to have a personal relationship with Jesus,
which is just a surrender. You know, really, it's about
surrendering your life to the lordship of Jesus Christ, believing
that he died on the cross for your sins and
that he paid the price that we could not pay,
he took on the punishment that we deserved, and that
(21:59):
if we just trust him by faith, that what he
did on that cross, we we shall be saved. And
so that is my hope, and I know yours too, Janet,
just for all who are listening, if they don't know
Christ as their Savior, to trust him and pray right now,
and invite him into their hearts, into their lives, to
be Lord and Savior. And then whenever that trumpet is sounded,
they will be going with the Bride of Christ to
(22:21):
meet the Lord in the air.
S1 (22:22):
Yeah. Amen. So every one of us has to answer
that question who is this Jesus? And that's the most
important question to ask. And you now have heard the answer.
So we could spend the rest of the hour just
letting our sanctified imaginations run on what the rapture is
going to be like. I mean, Craig and I were
very dear friends with Tim LaHaye, and Craig wrote a
series with Tim about what was going to happen at
(22:43):
the end as well. But the idea of airplanes falling
out of the sky. I mean, your doctor getting taken
out of the operating room. The mind just runs wild.
But that will happen. My mom, when she. When I
was a kid growing up, she used to tell me
that one of the major Midwest newspapers already had in
a vault somewhere, a headline that says billions vanish. Wow.
There was no explanation for why that was going to happen,
(23:04):
but that's exciting. But let me again, we could talk
ten hours in the book of revelation. There's so much there.
But let me go to the seven year period for
a minute if I can. So what I find fascinating
about this, and again, there's a panoply of views about
what happens according to some people's perspectives during that period
of time. But it starts out with a false peace, which,
as a lover of Israel, as you and I are,
(23:24):
I find that very interesting because I don't take my
eyes off the Middle East. That's my northern star for prophecy.
And if there's a false peace, wouldn't a false peace
have to be preceded by a time of troubling. So
I'm wondering, before the rapture, are we going to see
even more percolation in the Holy Land?
S7 (23:40):
Well, I agree with you. I think our eye always
needs to be on Israel. The way that Israel goes,
it's an indicator for us. It's a harbinger of things
that are to come. You know, we're living in a
time where I think that we are seeing some Bible
prophecies starting to unfold, in particular because we have Russia
making alliances with Iran. And the Bible clearly refers to
(24:02):
this alliance in Ezekiel chapter 38. And and Persia was
the ancient name for Iran until 1935. And so we're
seeing this alliance forming really in our lifetime like it's
never been before. So things are lining up. I think
we do need to always keep our eyes on Israel because, um,
that is really the center. That's Joel Rosenberg's term, that's
(24:24):
the epicenter. And, um, and so we should be mindful
of this. Things unfold in Israel. Those are indicators of
what is to come.
S1 (24:31):
Yeah. And our friend Anne Graham Lotz used to say
when she was teaching on Matthew 24. Look at your watch.
I'm going to teach you how to tell time and
all of those signs that are there in Matthew 24,
and you and I just might have a front row
seat to all of this. It couldn't be a more
exciting time to be alive. There's so much in the
book of revelation, and likewise it follows. There's so much
in Pastor Gary Hamrick's brand new book on the book
(24:52):
of Revelation. It's called standing on the Edge of Eternity.
I've got a link to Cornerstone Chapel on my information page,
Cornerstone chapel dot net, and I got a link to
how you can click on through and get the book
published by one of my favorite publishing companies, harvest House,
back after this. There are dozens of talk shows that
(25:22):
address politics, culture and technology, but in the market is
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(25:46):
If you are just joining us, pull up a chair.
Make yourself comfortable. Glad you're here, but you really want
to get this conversation from the beginning. So I love
the technology, the 21st century. Just go to wherever you
find your favorite podcast Spotify, Apple, wherever. Download in the
market with Janet partial. Put in today's date and get
my conversation with Pastor Gary Hamrick from the beginning, where
we are now discussing his new book, standing on the
(26:08):
Edge of Eternity The End Times According to Revelation. And
I'm going to say it again unabashedly. I've read lots
of books. As I said before, many, many wonderful leaders
are writing books about revelation right now because something's stirring
in our hearts right now, and it's all great. But
I have to tell you what Gary does. And this
is his hallmark of who he is as a pastor.
Absolute line upon line. Christ honoring, holding out the word
(26:30):
of life doesn't take it out, if it might be
culturally unpopular, if it convicts, Amen. And if it comforts, Amen.
But it's line upon line and he starts at the
beginning and works all the way through. And I'm telling you,
that's the way the word needs to be taught. And
that's the way the book is written. And as I
noted earlier, at the end of every chapter, there are
questions for you to think about. There's an application of
what that chapter is that you just read to your
(26:53):
life today. And then Gary breaks it down in real,
understandable segments where some people, their eyes kind of glaze
over for the book of revelation. This is the book
for you. Gary, by the way, serves as senior pastor
of Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia. He's been there since 1990.
1003 services packed all the time. Midweek service as well.
Thousands of people come, but thousands more also are watching online.
(27:15):
It's wonderful. Just something about exalting the name of Jesus
and holding out the word of life. That's amazing. So
let me, if I can, just for a minute, because
there are so many huge aspects to revelation, all fascinating,
all pointing to Jesus. And that's the primary takeaway. So
in the seven year period. For those of us who
have confessed with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and
believed in our heart that God has raised him from
(27:36):
the dead. If we're still living, if we haven't died,
if we're not asleep, as the Bible said in the grave,
but still alive. And if that were to happen tonight,
even so, come, Lord Jesus, I'd love to miss supper.
What happens? We get taken up in the air, and
then what happens to us? Because you were just talking
about this on Sunday. About our spirit, our body and
our spirit, the body decaying, the spirit. What happens to
(27:56):
us during that seven years?
S7 (27:58):
During that seven years, the church is kept safely in
heaven while, um, all of this catastrophic mess is going on,
on earth. And so the Lord preserves us there in heaven,
and we come back with him when he actually comes
back to the earth in revelation chapter 19. But, um,
you know what's important, I think, for your listeners to understand, Janet,
(28:20):
is that the tribulation while while it's a lot of
catastrophe and cataclysmic events and death, um, we have to
remember that this is God's final wake up call to
a Christ rejecting, godforsaken world. So to some people they think, well,
this is so horrible, all this tribulation, why would God
allow all this? Well, because he loves us so much
(28:43):
that he wants to rescue the most hardened heart. And
sometimes it takes that proverbial two by four upside our
head before we recognize our need for a Savior. And
so all of the tribulation, as messy as it is,
as as deadly as it is, it's God's final wake
up call to a Christ rejecting, God forsaken world.
S1 (29:04):
But doesn't that tell us something about the character of God?
You just quoted this, that he is not willing that
any should perish. So that even in that seven year period,
there's still an opportunity. But you know, nobody wants to
play Russian roulette here. Okay. You have to be ready.
If the rapture were coming tonight, but some people might
be saying, well, I just might be one of those
people left behind and I get another chance. We shouldn't
(29:25):
look at it that way because you don't know it's
appointed unto man once to die. And after that the judgment.
You don't know if tonight is your last night on
planet Earth. So you need to be ready now. But again,
it says something about the precious nature of our great
and eternal King that even in this time of tribulation,
there are those who are going to come to faith
in Christ. But now let me fast forward because, again,
(29:46):
I think not only is there an amalgamation between the
rapture and the Second Coming and then the seven years
in between, but when we come back with him and
we're part of that return. Okay, this is where it
gets really exciting, because now there's this whole period known
as the Millennial Kingdom. This is amazing. Now I picture
John again with the television screens all around him getting
(30:07):
these different perspectives. This is where you start thinking, how
in the world does this happen? I come back with Christ,
there are angels. I'm in a glorified body, but yet
there are people that are going to be born and
die in that millennial kingdom, and some will come to
faith and some won't. It's absolutely bizarre to me when
I think about this. Gary is, wait a minute, you're
seeing angels. You're seeing people in glorified bodies. Christ is
(30:30):
on the throne and you still don't believe. What does it.
S7 (30:33):
Take? Yeah, I know that is the great mystery, isn't it?
It's like Christ is on the throne, ruling and reigning.
The world is at its greatest time of peace because
he is the only ruler. And still people will rebel
against him. It just it just speaks to the fact
that the human heart is deceitful and wicked.
S1 (30:52):
Above.
S7 (30:52):
All things. Who can know it? Because even when Jesus
is ruling and reigning from Jerusalem, people will still unfortunately
not accept him and receive him. But if I could
just comment on one thing you said, Janet, about the
precious nature of our Lord. I want people to know
and not miss this in the book of revelation that Jesus,
the title that he prefers the most in the book
(31:15):
of Revelation, is Lamb, and it is first used of
him in Revelation five and verse six, and it is
repeated 29 times. He wants to be known as the
lamb that died for the sins of the world. He
wants us to see him as that sacrificial lamb who
shed his blood on the cross because of his love
for us. So I'm always drawn to that, that the
(31:36):
love of the of Jesus is revealed through revelation by
his title, lamb, that is most often used than any
other title about Jesus.
S1 (31:44):
I'm so glad you brought up revelation five, because isn't
it interesting? Because he could have said lion, but it's
the lamb. To underscore why that is, we know we
read in Scripture that he's the unblemished Lamb of God
that takes away the sins of the world. So there's
that sacrificial Savior act that he did for you and
me that he would want to be known for. That underscores, again,
(32:05):
does it not? I did this for you because I
love you.
S7 (32:09):
That's right, that's right. And so it will make that
millennial period a wonderful time when we recognize that this
is the lamb who laid down his life for the
sins of the world, and worshipping around the throne there
in Jerusalem, that thousand years is going to be a
glorious time. It is hard to imagine You're right. But, um,
it's this whole idea of saints with glorified bodies, in
(32:31):
the same way that Jesus had a glorified body in
the 40 days he walked the earth before he ascended
back into heaven. But we will also be coexisting with
people who came through the tribulation period, who confessed Jesus
as Savior. They will be living out their lives and
marrying and having children, but it will be a place
of great utopia like never known before.
S1 (32:51):
Yeah, unbelievable. Can't even begin to.
S7 (32:53):
Imagine heaven, right? Quite heaven. But it's still. It's going
to be the most peaceful time we've ever known on earth.
S1 (32:58):
Exactly right. Exactly. And you know, when Craig and I
talk about this, I always say, you know, there's a
point at which my sanctified imagination has to come to
an end because I have a little tiny Mickey Mouse mind,
and he is God, and his thoughts are far above mine.
And so it's like Christmas. They're going to be some surprises.
I'm glad, I'm glad. I don't know everything now. There's
going to be exciting. I can trust him. I believe
in him. I believe everything he said is good and
(33:20):
true and right. And so whatever it is, it's going
to be fabulous. Even if I can't imagine it. And
all I can think of is Paul being told you
were the third heaven. Keep your mouth closed. So it's
got to be fantastic, right?
S7 (33:31):
I think it was JB Phillips who said, If God
were small enough for me to understand, he wouldn't be
big enough for me to worship, right?
S1 (33:37):
Amen. So true, so very true. All right, so here's
a couple of the buzz things that people always think
about about the book of revelation. So who or what
is the Antichrist. And there really is a false trinity
that comes out of this time period. Talk to me
about that.
S7 (33:52):
So we first see a reference to the Antichrist in
Revelation chapter six. And it talks about how John saw
on a white horse one who sat on it with
a bow and a crown. The bow had no arrows,
so it indicates that he comes under the guise of peace.
But it's a false peace, and he's wearing a crown,
(34:13):
but it's an inferior crown. The Greek word is stephanos. It's.
It's different from the diadema crown that Jesus will have.
So he presents himself as a as a leader. And
then we read more about them in revelation 13, where
he talks about how John says, I saw a beast
rising from the sea. It doesn't mean a sea creature.
It means from the sea of humanity. The Antichrist rises.
(34:36):
He's this geopolitical leader who will dominate the world as
a dictator, and he will present himself like a messiah.
And unfortunately, many Jews will believe that he is the
Messiah and he makes a covenant of peace with Israel
for seven years, Daniel tells us. But he breaks that
covenant in the middle of the seven years, and then
(34:56):
the eyes of people are opened and they realize this
is the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet
Daniel that Jesus refers to. And this political, charismatic leader
will have this temporary dictatorship over the earth. But he is,
just as his title suggests, he's Antichrist. He's everything against
(35:17):
Christ and presents himself to be God and and Jesus,
when he comes, will overthrow the Antichrist.
S1 (35:24):
Wow. Okay. So the Antichrist is one aspect of all
of this. Where does the false prophet fit into this?
S7 (35:31):
So false prophet. Also, he's, um, like the the dynamic
false duo with the Antichrist and the false prophet is
this worldly religious leader of a worldly religious system. And, um,
you know, back in the 1930s and 40s, the church
then thought maybe Adolf Hitler is the Antichrist and Benito
(35:53):
Mussolini or Stalin is the false prophet. And so we
have seen many Antichrist small a over the course of history.
But there is coming the Antichrist capital A and his cohort,
the false prophet. And then you have the dragon, which
is Satan, who gives power to both the Antichrist and
the false prophet. So that's that unholy trinity of the Antichrist,
(36:17):
Satan and the false prophet, and they're coming onto the
world scene. Of course, Satan's already here, but these other
two are coming onto the world scene.
S1 (36:25):
Yeah. Note to file doesn't end well for them. You
got to read the book of revelation.
S7 (36:29):
That's right.
S1 (36:30):
The book is called standing on the Edge of Eternity
The End Times according to revelation. Pastor Gary Hamrick is
the author. I've got it on my info page. Easy
for you to get there. Just go to in the
market with Janet Parshall, right under the synopsis of each
of the hours we do each day, you're going to
see a red box. It says program details and audio.
Click that on takes you to the information page. There's
(36:50):
a longer bio for Gary, and right next to him
is the book standing on the Edge of Eternity. You
can click on through to get your copy of the
book and underneath a direct link to Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia.
More with Pastor Gary Hamrick right after this. Pastor Gary
(37:20):
Hamrick is with us, senior pastor at Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia.
He's got a brand new book out that's fabulous on
the book of Revelation. It's called standing on the Edge
of Eternity. And let me just say again, and you
always hear me say this about books I love. I
can't this is not a book report, okay? There's 22
chapters in revelation, and every one of them is worth studying.
In fact, Gary, when you preach through revelation, how many
(37:43):
weeks does it take you to do it? If you
can do it uninterrupted?
S7 (37:46):
Uh, it took me about a year, year and a half,
I think. And by the way, the publisher actually had
the idea of each chapter in the book corresponds to
the chapter of revelation. So when you're reading chapter one,
you're reading revelation one, and so on. So I thought
that was pretty a pretty good idea.
S1 (38:05):
Again, user friendly. I mean, it's a wonderful way, as
you're going through it, to be able to just see
these wonderful comments from Gary as you're reading through the
book of Revelation. So let me, in deference to time,
and I just I want to underscore the book is
filled with so much more than even the precious gift
of irreplaceable time from Gary. I can't possibly cover. So
I just really want to underscore that this should be
(38:26):
a part of your legacy library. This is the kind
of book that you need as you're studying in God's
Word every single day, so that you're not afraid it
isn't an accident or an afterthought that God put revelation
in there. It is about us being looking forward with
joyous anticipation to the return of our King, and in
his full glory in all that he's done for us
will be revealed. I've often said, when I get there,
(38:46):
I'm spending the first million years with my face to
the ground because I just don't know what it's going
to be like to behold him face to face. So
I get excited reading what's going to happen. So on
that note and this and again, I think people sometimes
don't understand the sort of longitudinal aspect of eschatology. But
when we come back, eventually there is a new heaven
and a new earth, and this gets even more interesting.
(39:08):
So where does that happen? And what do you and
I do as followers of Christ, who now have a
glorified body, were with him? What are we doing for
the rest of our lives for all eternity.
S7 (39:20):
Yeah, that's a great question. Um, you know, whatever it is,
I can guarantee this. It'll be far better than the
way life is on Earth. You know, I always tell
people when they're like, well, will, I will. I know
my loved ones. Yes. Will I this will I that.
And I just always remind people, whatever you love will
be even better on in heaven. And nothing that we, uh,
(39:41):
are so burdened by here on earth will be present.
There will be a new heaven and a new earth.
The present earth and present heavens will be done away with.
And God will, uh, bring about this wonderful new earth.
It will literally be, you know, that expression, heaven on earth.
It will be this new Jerusalem, this new heaven coming
out of the, uh, God's creation to be present on earth.
(40:04):
And we will live with him and rule and reign
with him. I think that much of our time, Janet
is going to be just worshiping him, but enjoying, enjoying,
just being in his presence. Uh, and I look forward
to whatever all of that is. It's just going to
be a glorious time around this throne.
S1 (40:22):
Exactly. And if I understand this correctly, we're going to work.
I mean, he's going to give us jobs. And I
remember Billy Graham saying, I want to be mayor of Jerusalem.
And I remember Cliff Barrow saying, I want to direct
the Heavenly Choir. So those two jobs are clearly taken already. Yeah.
S7 (40:36):
I've asked to be mayor over Bermuda, but the Bible
says there's no more islands because they all vanished. So?
So I have to find something else to do. But yeah,
you're right. It's not like we're going to be sitting
on clouds with harps and chubby little babies that, you know,
just sing all the time. It's going to be a
glorious time of living and working and ruling and reigning
with him. It's just going to be a glorious time.
S1 (40:57):
Exactly. And one of the reasons why I want to
linger here, and why this is such an appropriate note
for us to end our conversation on, is that if
you're not in his word, if you aren't deeply, madly
in love with the Savior who is the unconditional lover
of your soul, why would you be looking forward to heaven?
We're thinking, by the way, we've let the Renaissance art
period define this. We've let Hollywood define this, and we're
(41:17):
thinking to ourselves all of eternity, all I'm going to
do is sing praise and worship songs. That sounds pretty
boring to me. But if the centrality of the experience
is being in the presence of Jesus himself, I to
me an eternity is probably not going to be long enough.
I mean, and then to be able to join him
in working, it seems to me, and this is just
my $0.02 from the peanut gallery, that this is taking
(41:38):
us back to Eden again, that whatever this new earth is,
will be Edenic in its existence.
S7 (41:44):
Yeah, I would agree, because you see the tree of
life present in revelation chapter 22 that we last see
in in Genesis. And so, yes, it will be it's
whatever Eden was like. It's going to be this glorious
revamping of Eden that in a in a wonderful, eternal way,
and we will be enjoying each other's company. One of
(42:06):
the things that I love about Jesus in his glorified form,
was that he was recognized by his disciples and and
in the same way that Peter, James and John, they
were taken up on the Mount of Transfiguration. They recognized
Moses and Elijah, though they had never met them. And
so we will recognize our loved ones. We will be
able to meet Moses and Elijah and the apostle Paul
(42:28):
and John and and it's going to be a wonderful time,
a glorious time just interacting and fellowshipping and living life
to its fullest around the throne of Jesus.
S1 (42:38):
Exactly, exactly. And I'm so glad you brought up the
idea that he was recognized, because we've got over 500
witnesses to the resurrected Christ. And there are a couple
of takeaways, I think, as we're looking through this glass dimly.
And one of them is, I think we eat in
heaven because Jesus was eating fish when he was along
the Sea of Galilee. So that gives me a little
sneak peek. So if you're going to eat, there has
to be food. If there's food, there have to be gardeners,
(43:00):
if there's gardeners, there has to be hydration. Oh, this
is where it gets interesting. I thought there was going
to be no rain in heaven. So how do we
hydrate the gardens in heaven or on the new earth?
S7 (43:09):
Yeah. Well, you know, even before rain came in the
days of Noah, There was this internal system of the
misting of artesian wells underneath that that misted and watered
the earth. So maybe it'll be a terrarium kind of
effect again. But, um, it's just going to be a
wonderful time. I know we don't know all of the details,
(43:31):
but that's okay, because God has saved like, desert. He
always saves the best for last.
S1 (43:37):
That's so good. All right, so it's a capstone to this.
And again, let me underscore 22 chapters. And we didn't
get through 22 chapters. So there's a plethora of information
for you to read and to glean from what Gary
has written. What's our biggest takeaway from revelation? What's the
most important thing we should know?
S7 (43:53):
The most important thing to know is that the Lord
loves us, and he has revealed his plan to us,
that we might be saved and spend eternity with him.
And that's the book of revelation to get ready because
he's coming again.
S1 (44:05):
Amen. And even so, come, Lord Jesus. I hope it's
before dinner tonight, Gary. Thank you. That's exactly right. Thank you, brother,
for your time. Thank you for your excellent teaching. Thank
you for a superb book. And now this is. We've
got one down. Okay. This is the book of revelation.
You only have 65 more to go, Gary. So you
can just write from Genesis all the way through to Jude.
(44:25):
We'll get the rest of them covered. The book is
called standing on the Edge of Eternity The End Times
according to revelation. Again, I've got it set up on
my website so you can click on through to get
your copy. And also I have a link to Cornerstone
Chapel in Leesburg. People around the world listen every single week,
midweek service and Sunday as well. So check it out.
I know you're going to be edified, equipped and encouraged
(44:47):
and enlightened. And then, like me, you're going to hear
Gary get you out there in the marketplace of ideas
where you can influence and occupy until he comes. Thanks
so much for joining us. Friends love to spend the
time with you. We'll see you next time right here
on In the Market with Janet Parshall.
Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
of In the Market with Janet Parshall, and it is
my most sincere hope that you are edified, equipped, enlightened,
encouraged and then it makes you just want to get
out there in the marketplace of ideas and influence and
occupy until he comes. But before you start listening, let
me just take a moment of your time to tell
you about this month's truth tool. It's called The Steadfast
Love of the Lord by my friend and frequent guest,
(00:22):
Doctor Sam Storms. You know, he tells us that so
often we struggle with this idea of feeling like we're
loved by God, or that somehow we've done something that
separates us from the love of God. But we fail
to remember the Scripture that reminds us that while we
were yet sinners, not perfect, not all put together, not
everything's all been worked out while we were yet sinners.
That's when Christ died for us. Love is an action word,
(00:44):
and that's what Doctor Sam Storms reminds us in his book,
The Steadfast Love of God. I don't know about you,
but with the headlines of the day, being reminded of
who God is is about the most precious news I
could hear on a regular basis. And I'd love for
you to have a copy written by a man who
understands the Bible and always delivers rich theology. So just
call 877 Janet 58. When you give a gift of
(01:05):
any amount, because we are listener supported radio, we're going
to send you a copy of The Steadfast Love of
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go online to in the market with Janet Parshall. Same thing.
Scroll down on the page. You'll see the cover of
Sam's book, The Steadfast Love of the Lord, clicking on
make Your Donation and we'll send it to you again.
(01:27):
Listener supported. And when you give a gift, it keeps
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group of friends called Partial Partners. Those are people who
give every single month a they get the truth tool,
b they get a weekly newsletter that always contains some
of my writing and an audio piece that only my
partial partners get. I don't set the level you do
(01:50):
if you become a partial partner, but the idea here
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want you to know how much I appreciate that as well.
So 877 Janet 58 Eight. 77. 58. Or online at.
In the market with Janet. When you're on the website,
scroll to the bottom. Click on the cover of the
book and it'll walk you through the rest. Thanks so much.
And now, with all my heart, I hope you hear
(02:10):
something today that really changes your perspective and makes you
excited about being a follower of Jesus Christ. Enjoy the program!
Hi friends, this is Janet partial and I want to
welcome you to the best of in the market. Today's
program is prerecorded so our phone lines are not open,
(02:30):
but I do hope you'll enjoy today's edition of the
Best of In the Market with Janet Parshall.
S2 (02:35):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (02:37):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (02:40):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S5 (02:42):
Extremely rare safety move by a May.
S6 (02:44):
17th years the Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S3 (02:48):
This is not indicative.
S1 (03:03):
Hi friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall.
I am thrilled we're going to spend the hour together.
If you're stuck in rush hour traffic, just take a
deep breath because we plan on helping you set your
mind on things above this hour. If it is, as
we used to call it in my house, the arsenic
hour where the kids are running around post-school, pre-dinner, take
a deep breath because again, you're going to be edified
by what you're going to hear this hour. So if
(03:25):
I were to say to you, out of the 66
books that make up the Bible and remember, the Bible
doesn't contain the Word of God, it is the Word
of God. All 66 inspired, inerrant, transcendent applies to all
people in all times, in all places. How many of
you would say the Book of Revelation will wait? The
buses will wait. I'll look for Show of Hands. Yeah.
(03:45):
And then a bigger question. Why is it that some
churches and this is an indictment, this is just curious
minds want to know why is it that far too
many churches treat the book of revelation like Goldilocks is porridge? porch.
For some people it's just too hot. And they just
they're going to get into it and everything is tied
back to the book of revelation. The other 65 books. Okay.
But this is the one that is everything. The end
(04:06):
all and be all, or for others, it's too cold. No, no, no,
you know, it's we're far, far too sophisticated to bring
that into our lives right now. That allegory has no
application for the 21st century mind. And then you get
these pastors that are dead right, dead center understanding that
Jesus shows up in Genesis and weaves himself through every
single one of the 66 books, and that rather than
(04:26):
be tied up and be afraid of dragons and beasts
and bowls and scrolls, that the book of revelation, when
you think about it, when you really get into it,
is one of the most exciting of the 66 books
to read. And it's all about Jesus, not meek and
mild warrior, king, conqueror, God incarnate. And it really is
(04:46):
an absolutely fascinating book. But I will grant you that
you and I need a good teacher to help us
really understand it. And sometimes you can be so highfalutin
that you can't get down to where we common folk
are to really understand this. But again, God raises up
men who know how to preach the whole counsel of
God and to do it line upon line and precept
upon precept. And one of those people is Pastor Gary Hamrick.
(05:07):
I love his teaching. He does it with such clarity.
He does it with such application, and he isn't worried
about whether or not it offends. He never wants to
be offensive, but it is everything that God says because
he understands. Every word is there for our edification, as
the word itself tells us. He's got a brand new
book out on the book of Revelation. It's called standing
(05:28):
on the Edge of Eternity. Let that title sink in
for a minute, and it's subtitled The End Times According
to Revelation. Now, if you don't know who Pastor Gary is,
you're in for a treat. He served as senior pastor
at Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia, since 1991. And I
have to tell you, that church is just a miracle
story in and of itself. It's home to several thousand
weekly worshippers, and that doesn't count the thousands who watch online.
(05:52):
And I believe in transparency and good journalism And full disclosure,
Craig and I are two of those thousands of people
that watch online, and we are such faithful attendees. We
love his teaching, so his desire is to do exactly
why we fell in love with the church. His desire
is to reach people with the truth of the scriptures,
so they might experience a personal relationship with Jesus Christ
and become mature in their faith. He's been married to
(06:14):
his wife, Terry for a long time. They have three grand,
three children. And Gary, I got to tell you, brother,
your bios already out of date because it says age,
grandchildren and baby Noah's not counted in there.
S7 (06:25):
You're right. We have nine grandchildren now, so thank you, Janet,
for having me. It's a joy to be with you.
S1 (06:31):
Oh. Thank you. It's a joy to be with you.
And I have to tell you, our mutual friend, Anne
Graham Lotz just rereleased a book that she wrote a
few years ago about revelation. It was called The Vision
of His Glory. And I don't know something's happening among
God's saints right now. We're writing and talking and teaching
about revelation is really prescient in their lives. Why so
for you too?
S7 (06:49):
Well, for me, my desire was to try to take
a book that people otherwise think is complicated, and to
pare it down to small bites that people could read
and digest and really appreciate the Book of Revelation instead
of being afraid to read it. Because I think too
many in the church today. And you said it well
(07:12):
at the intro, are reluctant to read it, and pastors
are reluctant to teach it. And and really, it's a
wonderful book that presents to us the a timeline of
events that are about to happen, culminating, of course, in
the return of Christ and our future to spend eternity
with him. So it really is a wonderful book that
(07:32):
much of the church has neglected, because I think they
look at it as too scary, too daunting, too complicated. But, um,
I just had a desire to break it down in
small bites so that people could easily understand it and
digest it.
S1 (07:45):
And can I tell you that is the perfect encapsulation
of what you've done? Like I said, I just read
Anne's book. I've read lots of other books on revelation.
But Gary, I got to tell you, what I love
about yours is the absolute. Colloquial approach you take to this,
you break it down in very understandable ways. We look
at it big chunks, themes at the end of every
verse or every chapter. Rather, you ask us to reflect
(08:06):
on what you've just said. So you give us study
questions that, in my way of thinking, is always the
hallmark of a good teacher, because it's like what you
teach us on Sunday morning. For those of you taking notes,
I'm one of those people taking copious notes. But somehow
when you answer the question, it gets written better, quicker,
faster on the tablets of your heart. So I love that.
And then you also end with an important takeaway that
can be applied to us today, which I think makes
(08:28):
it again one of the best books I've ever read
on revelation. So personally, and I want my friends all
across the country to hear this. I think it's one
of the best out there, and I thank you. And
I was thinking, as I prayerfully prepared for this and
read it, I thought, there's 22 chapters. Gary and I
are not going to get through 22 chapters of this book.
So I thought, well, let me do a flyover and
at least pick some of the things that are the
ones that talked about when people are having coffee with
(08:50):
their friends and they decide to segue into a conversation
about revelation. The best place to start, if I can,
is exactly what you do at the beginning, which was
this beautiful way in which you lay out the kind
of eschatological timeline that we read in the Book of Revelation.
And I'm coming up to a break, and I don't
want to have to interrupt you, but can I ask
you to get started? And when you hear the music,
wherever we stop, we'll pick it up from there. But
(09:11):
why don't we start with John himself? You know, when
we stop and think about those who lay down their
lives for the cause of the cross, John is troubled.
And then he gets put into this island where he's imprisoned.
But explain the island to us. What would Patmos have
been like in John's day?
S7 (09:27):
So I went to Patmos for the very first time
a few months ago, and I was there as part
of a tour. I was leading through the footsteps of Paul, actually,
but we made a little diversion into the Aegean Sea,
where the island of Patmos is, and it was a
prison camp where Domitian had sent John because of his
faith in Jesus Christ. So it was a labor prison camp,
(09:48):
but it was there that Jesus revealed these words to him.
S1 (09:52):
You're sensitive to the music and I thank you for that, Gary.
So let's pick it up. And when we come back,
we're going to still have John there on the island
of Patmos. So something, well, astounding, something supernatural happens to
him when he's on that island. And for a lot
of people, that's the first sticky wicket. They can't get
past the idea that what was John seeing? Was he
suffering from old age? Delusion, hypothermia? What was going on there? Gary,
(10:14):
we'll break that down for you. His new book. My recommendation.
Best I've read yet on the book of revelation. Standing
on the edge of eternity. Back after this. If you've
ever felt unworthy of God's love, we need to remember
(10:35):
that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
That's why I've chosen the steadfast love of the Lord
as this month's truth tool. Unworthiness doesn't disqualify you from
God's love. It magnifies it. As for your copy, the
steadfast love of the Lord when you give a gift
of any amount to in the market, call eight 7758.
That's eight 7758 or go to in the market with
(10:56):
Janet Parshall. What a joy to spend the hour with
Pastor Gary Hamrick. By the way, not only is he
the senior pastor at Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia, Gino
also sits on the board of directors at the Museum
of the Bible and the Family Research Council. That's what
happens when you get a church right there in the
shadow of the US Capitol. He joins us today with
a brand new book called standing on the Edge of
(11:17):
Eternity The End Times According to Revelation. And by the way,
if I may, this is one of those books. The
primary source is always the word itself. But I don't
know about you. When I'm in the word, I like
to have resources around me that help me better understand
my primary teachers, the Holy Spirit. But then there's books
that I like to have next to me. This is
the kind of book you want right next to you
when you're doing your personal study time. In the word
(11:38):
of revelation, Gary will literally walk you through this. That's
his hallmark, by the way, as a preacher just takes
a passage. We are currently going through Galatians, and it's
just fabulous because he takes the meat right out, and
he gets us to get off that diet of milk
and to get some spiritual heft on our bones by
getting in the Word of God. And we so appreciate that.
So when last we met, John was at Patmos. He
(11:58):
was there. He had been confined to that island. And
then he has this supernatural experience. Describe Gary. What happens?
S7 (12:05):
Well, in revelation one he tells us that the reason
he was there on Patmos, it says, for the word
of God and for the testimony of Jesus Christ. So
he had been banished there as punishment for his faith
in Jesus Christ. And while he's there on this island
in revelation 110, it says that he says, I was
in the spirit on the Lord's day. And I heard
behind me a loud voice as of a trumpet. And
(12:27):
the Lord Jesus then begins to speak, and he hears
this audible, uh, revelation of Jesus Christ, which is important.
This is not the revelation of John. This is the
revelation of Jesus Christ as he imparts all of this
information to John. And then John begins to write what
what he hears and the visions that he sees. And
(12:50):
and God appears to him in this miraculous way.
S1 (12:54):
You mentioned something that I think is very important because
for a lot of people, and again, because we're talking
to people from Guam all the way to the Cayman Islands,
you and I can presume that people are at various
stages in their walk with the Lord. So sometimes the
allegory makes them step back or they think it's future.
So therefore it doesn't have any relevance to me. You
say that there are three interpretations allegorical, historical and literal
(13:17):
or futuristic. Can you break that down for us.
S7 (13:19):
The allegorical method, people who interpret it that way, which
I don't hold to, but they think that everything about
revelation is symbolic. It's just about good versus evil, paganism
versus Christianity. Um, the historical view puts all of revelation
in an historical rear view mirror. And basically they say
(13:39):
things like, um, the Antichrist was Nero and the suffering
of revelation in relation to the tribulation period was the
the suffering of the early church. And and so I
hold to and I'm not the only one. Obviously this
is a position that a lot of people hold, which
is this is a literal book that we should understand literally.
(14:01):
Does it have symbolic language? Well, of course, because John's
writing in the first century, looking down hundreds of years,
if not millennium. And so he is trying to use
language to describe things that he sees in the future.
But this is a literal book, and especially beginning in
chapter four, verse one, all the things that follow are
(14:22):
really in the future. Now, I think that there is
an exception. I think there's a looking back in a
couple of places. I think the fall of, of Satan's
rebellion that we read about in revelation chapter 12, I
think that's a look back. But otherwise, the majority of
the book is looking forward, and it is a literal
book about literal events that will take place later. The
(14:46):
symbolic language is just John's inability to communicate in words
that we could understand. You know, I liken it unto
if George Washington were to come across a cell phone
in his day, how would he describe a cell phone?
He would talk about it like a rectangle of metal
and glass, like a mirror. I see little people and
(15:07):
has sound, but I mean, you know, he John, is
trying to communicate things into the future, but it is
a literal book that we should understand that way.
S1 (15:15):
Exactly. And you used a term I didn't know before.
Now I'm the better for it. The Polychronic view. That's
very important.
S7 (15:22):
Well, yeah, because, uh, we, we tend to like things
in American Western culture in a monochronic way. Like, we
want one, two, three. We like it in order. A
polychronic view is, um, I compare it to if you
were to stand in a circular room and it's an
art gallery and it's not necessarily in 1 to 3
(15:45):
chronological order. The the eastern mindset, where John would have
been writing from is one that presents pictures in circular ways,
and so we shouldn't always see everything in this monochromatic way.
It's it's kind of a circular view of what is
to come. And that's sometimes difficult for the Western mindset
to understand.
S1 (16:06):
But you create a great word picture. You said it
would be like us standing in a room and there
were televisions projecting different images all around us. They're all
part of the inclusive story. They're different aspects of the
story being viewed at different times.
S7 (16:19):
Correct.
S1 (16:20):
I thought that was very important. The other thing you
point out, too, is that we talk about the church age,
and the church age is going to end when we
talk about the rapture. Now, I love this conversation because
there are there a myriad of views on this. First
of all, I think it's important that you explain what
your view is. You and I share it. I think
it's biblically defensible, but there are a myriad of other
(16:41):
views out there on this.
S7 (16:42):
Well there are, um, my view is that these these
seven churches, the letters to the seven churches, they were
literal churches in existence. Uh, each church was an actual
church located in what is today modern Turkey in the
first century. But they are also churches that are spiritual
in relevance. In other words, each church addresses spiritual issues
(17:04):
that are relevant to believers today. And then they also, thirdly,
have an historical significance because each church represents a distinct
time period of church history. So what I do in
the book is I walk people through the seven churches
to reflect the a timeline of the history of the
church up to and including the church today, which is, is, um,
(17:28):
is a divergent. There's a divergent stream where there is
a Church of Philadelphia today, and there's a Church of
Laodicea today. The Church of Philadelphia, I hope we all
belong to is believers. That's the legitimate church. That's the
evangelical church that's going to be raptured. The church of Laodicea. Well,
that's the lukewarm church, Janet. That's the woke church that
(17:49):
will not be rescued because they aren't really believers, but
they think they are. And so the seven churches paint
a picture for us. That is an important aspect of
what the church is like even today.
S1 (18:01):
And I have to commend you. I thought I could
just take the whole hour and do nothing but talk
about the seven churches, and if I did that, there'd
be so many things I couldn't talk about. But let
me just tell my friends that it is deep theology,
taught with absolute clarity and application for today. This is
why I love the book so much. Standing on the
edge of eternity. Back after this. Standing on the Edge
(18:27):
of Eternity brand new book by Pastor Gary Hamrick, Senior
Pastor at Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia. By the way,
they have a radio program. It's called Cornerstone Connection, and
it plays on over 200 stations each weekday all across
the country. I have a link to Cornerstone Chapel. It's great.
It's user friendly, it's chock full of information, and you
can join the tens of thousands of people globally who
(18:48):
watch the services at Cornerstone Chapel. In fact, I want
you to know one of the things I love about
Cornerstone Chapel is they actually have a family picnic for
people who listen online. And, Gary, people come literally from
around the globe to this thing, which is just stunning
to me. Yeah.
S7 (19:03):
That's amazing. Yeah. We're always so blessed to see people
come and join us for that.
S1 (19:08):
Amen. That's so wonderful. All right. So I want to
I want to do the finish of the flyover because
I think that's important. Then I'm going to pick out
a couple of those big sort of headline stories that
come out of revelation. So we talked about the church age.
And I would love for you to explain the difference
between the rapture and the Second Coming. For a lot
of people, they think they're one and the same. And
then what happens in between the rapture and that moment
(19:29):
when he comes back like a thief in the night?
S7 (19:31):
That's right. And that's a great question, because when we
talk about the second coming of Christ, it's a broad
term that really, um, communicates two aspects. The. The first
part of the second coming of Jesus is only in
the air to receive the bride, and that's the rapture
of the church, where we will be caught up and
we will. We will be with the Lord, and we
(19:54):
will be rescued, because following the rapture is seven years
of tribulation that come upon the earth. And then after
the tribulation at the end of the tribulation, it culminates
with the battle of Armageddon. And then Jesus Christ comes again.
But this time he comes to the earth, and he
and he comes to the same place from which he ascended.
(20:14):
He comes back to the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem.
And he sets up his kingdom for a thousand years.
And he rules and reigns from Jerusalem. So the two
aspects to the second coming of Christ are the rapture,
which is he only comes in the air, and then
his second coming to the earth after the tribulation period.
So it's a broad term, but it really communicates two aspects.
S1 (20:37):
Absolutely now so that everybody listening can say that you
understood exactly what happens. Gary, am I right in saying
that not a single prophecy has yet to be fulfilled
before the rapture of the church takes place?
S7 (20:50):
Yeah, that's that's correct. There are still Bible prophecies that
we're looking forward to that have not yet been fulfilled,
but nothing that is needed before Christ returns. I think
the the biggest one, of course, that was fulfilled when
Israel became a nation again in 1948 and a fulfillment
of the dry bones from Ezekiel 37. So really, we're
just waiting at any time now, Jesus could sound that
(21:13):
trumpet and we go to be with him.
S1 (21:16):
And nothing would be worse than to be left behind.
So to anybody who's listening right now, they could be
able to say when they put their head down on
their pillow tonight. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt,
that if Jesus were to rapture his church out of
the air at midnight tonight and we don't know, no
man knows the hour of the day. Not even the son,
only the father. What would you need to do to
(21:36):
be prepared for when that happens.
S7 (21:38):
Yeah. Every person needs to have a personal relationship with Jesus,
which is just a surrender. You know, really, it's about
surrendering your life to the lordship of Jesus Christ, believing
that he died on the cross for your sins and
that he paid the price that we could not pay,
he took on the punishment that we deserved, and that
(21:59):
if we just trust him by faith, that what he
did on that cross, we we shall be saved. And
so that is my hope, and I know yours too, Janet,
just for all who are listening, if they don't know
Christ as their Savior, to trust him and pray right now,
and invite him into their hearts, into their lives, to
be Lord and Savior. And then whenever that trumpet is sounded,
they will be going with the Bride of Christ to
(22:21):
meet the Lord in the air.
S1 (22:22):
Yeah. Amen. So every one of us has to answer
that question who is this Jesus? And that's the most
important question to ask. And you now have heard the answer.
So we could spend the rest of the hour just
letting our sanctified imaginations run on what the rapture is
going to be like. I mean, Craig and I were
very dear friends with Tim LaHaye, and Craig wrote a
series with Tim about what was going to happen at
(22:43):
the end as well. But the idea of airplanes falling
out of the sky. I mean, your doctor getting taken
out of the operating room. The mind just runs wild.
But that will happen. My mom, when she. When I
was a kid growing up, she used to tell me
that one of the major Midwest newspapers already had in
a vault somewhere, a headline that says billions vanish. Wow.
There was no explanation for why that was going to happen,
(23:04):
but that's exciting. But let me again, we could talk
ten hours in the book of revelation. There's so much there.
But let me go to the seven year period for
a minute if I can. So what I find fascinating
about this, and again, there's a panoply of views about
what happens according to some people's perspectives during that period
of time. But it starts out with a false peace, which,
as a lover of Israel, as you and I are,
(23:24):
I find that very interesting because I don't take my
eyes off the Middle East. That's my northern star for prophecy.
And if there's a false peace, wouldn't a false peace
have to be preceded by a time of troubling. So
I'm wondering, before the rapture, are we going to see
even more percolation in the Holy Land?
S7 (23:40):
Well, I agree with you. I think our eye always
needs to be on Israel. The way that Israel goes,
it's an indicator for us. It's a harbinger of things
that are to come. You know, we're living in a
time where I think that we are seeing some Bible
prophecies starting to unfold, in particular because we have Russia
making alliances with Iran. And the Bible clearly refers to
(24:02):
this alliance in Ezekiel chapter 38. And and Persia was
the ancient name for Iran until 1935. And so we're
seeing this alliance forming really in our lifetime like it's
never been before. So things are lining up. I think
we do need to always keep our eyes on Israel because, um,
that is really the center. That's Joel Rosenberg's term, that's
(24:24):
the epicenter. And, um, and so we should be mindful
of this. Things unfold in Israel. Those are indicators of
what is to come.
S1 (24:31):
Yeah. And our friend Anne Graham Lotz used to say
when she was teaching on Matthew 24. Look at your watch.
I'm going to teach you how to tell time and
all of those signs that are there in Matthew 24,
and you and I just might have a front row
seat to all of this. It couldn't be a more
exciting time to be alive. There's so much in the
book of revelation, and likewise it follows. There's so much
in Pastor Gary Hamrick's brand new book on the book
(24:52):
of Revelation. It's called standing on the Edge of Eternity.
I've got a link to Cornerstone Chapel on my information page,
Cornerstone chapel dot net, and I got a link to
how you can click on through and get the book
published by one of my favorite publishing companies, harvest House,
back after this. There are dozens of talk shows that
(25:22):
address politics, culture and technology, but in the market is
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When you financially support in the market as a partial partner,
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(25:46):
If you are just joining us, pull up a chair.
Make yourself comfortable. Glad you're here, but you really want
to get this conversation from the beginning. So I love
the technology, the 21st century. Just go to wherever you
find your favorite podcast Spotify, Apple, wherever. Download in the
market with Janet partial. Put in today's date and get
my conversation with Pastor Gary Hamrick from the beginning, where
we are now discussing his new book, standing on the
(26:08):
Edge of Eternity The End Times According to Revelation. And
I'm going to say it again unabashedly. I've read lots
of books. As I said before, many, many wonderful leaders
are writing books about revelation right now because something's stirring
in our hearts right now, and it's all great. But
I have to tell you what Gary does. And this
is his hallmark of who he is as a pastor.
Absolute line upon line. Christ honoring, holding out the word
(26:30):
of life doesn't take it out, if it might be
culturally unpopular, if it convicts, Amen. And if it comforts, Amen.
But it's line upon line and he starts at the
beginning and works all the way through. And I'm telling you,
that's the way the word needs to be taught. And
that's the way the book is written. And as I
noted earlier, at the end of every chapter, there are
questions for you to think about. There's an application of
what that chapter is that you just read to your
(26:53):
life today. And then Gary breaks it down in real,
understandable segments where some people, their eyes kind of glaze
over for the book of revelation. This is the book
for you. Gary, by the way, serves as senior pastor
of Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia. He's been there since 1990.
1003 services packed all the time. Midweek service as well.
Thousands of people come, but thousands more also are watching online.
(27:15):
It's wonderful. Just something about exalting the name of Jesus
and holding out the word of life. That's amazing. So
let me, if I can, just for a minute, because
there are so many huge aspects to revelation, all fascinating,
all pointing to Jesus. And that's the primary takeaway. So
in the seven year period. For those of us who
have confessed with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and
believed in our heart that God has raised him from
(27:36):
the dead. If we're still living, if we haven't died,
if we're not asleep, as the Bible said in the grave,
but still alive. And if that were to happen tonight,
even so, come, Lord Jesus, I'd love to miss supper.
What happens? We get taken up in the air, and
then what happens to us? Because you were just talking
about this on Sunday. About our spirit, our body and
our spirit, the body decaying, the spirit. What happens to
(27:56):
us during that seven years?
S7 (27:58):
During that seven years, the church is kept safely in
heaven while, um, all of this catastrophic mess is going on,
on earth. And so the Lord preserves us there in heaven,
and we come back with him when he actually comes
back to the earth in revelation chapter 19. But, um,
you know what's important, I think, for your listeners to understand, Janet,
(28:20):
is that the tribulation while while it's a lot of
catastrophe and cataclysmic events and death, um, we have to
remember that this is God's final wake up call to
a Christ rejecting, godforsaken world. So to some people they think, well,
this is so horrible, all this tribulation, why would God
allow all this? Well, because he loves us so much
(28:43):
that he wants to rescue the most hardened heart. And
sometimes it takes that proverbial two by four upside our
head before we recognize our need for a Savior. And
so all of the tribulation, as messy as it is,
as as deadly as it is, it's God's final wake
up call to a Christ rejecting, God forsaken world.
S1 (29:04):
But doesn't that tell us something about the character of God?
You just quoted this, that he is not willing that
any should perish. So that even in that seven year period,
there's still an opportunity. But you know, nobody wants to
play Russian roulette here. Okay. You have to be ready.
If the rapture were coming tonight, but some people might
be saying, well, I just might be one of those
people left behind and I get another chance. We shouldn't
(29:25):
look at it that way because you don't know it's
appointed unto man once to die. And after that the judgment.
You don't know if tonight is your last night on
planet Earth. So you need to be ready now. But again,
it says something about the precious nature of our great
and eternal King that even in this time of tribulation,
there are those who are going to come to faith
in Christ. But now let me fast forward because, again,
(29:46):
I think not only is there an amalgamation between the
rapture and the Second Coming and then the seven years
in between, but when we come back with him and
we're part of that return. Okay, this is where it
gets really exciting, because now there's this whole period known
as the Millennial Kingdom. This is amazing. Now I picture
John again with the television screens all around him getting
(30:07):
these different perspectives. This is where you start thinking, how
in the world does this happen? I come back with Christ,
there are angels. I'm in a glorified body, but yet
there are people that are going to be born and
die in that millennial kingdom, and some will come to
faith and some won't. It's absolutely bizarre to me when
I think about this. Gary is, wait a minute, you're
seeing angels. You're seeing people in glorified bodies. Christ is
(30:30):
on the throne and you still don't believe. What does it.
S7 (30:33):
Take? Yeah, I know that is the great mystery, isn't it?
It's like Christ is on the throne, ruling and reigning.
The world is at its greatest time of peace because
he is the only ruler. And still people will rebel
against him. It just it just speaks to the fact
that the human heart is deceitful and wicked.
S1 (30:52):
Above.
S7 (30:52):
All things. Who can know it? Because even when Jesus
is ruling and reigning from Jerusalem, people will still unfortunately
not accept him and receive him. But if I could
just comment on one thing you said, Janet, about the
precious nature of our Lord. I want people to know
and not miss this in the book of revelation that Jesus,
the title that he prefers the most in the book
(31:15):
of Revelation, is Lamb, and it is first used of
him in Revelation five and verse six, and it is
repeated 29 times. He wants to be known as the
lamb that died for the sins of the world. He
wants us to see him as that sacrificial lamb who
shed his blood on the cross because of his love
for us. So I'm always drawn to that, that the
(31:36):
love of the of Jesus is revealed through revelation by
his title, lamb, that is most often used than any
other title about Jesus.
S1 (31:44):
I'm so glad you brought up revelation five, because isn't
it interesting? Because he could have said lion, but it's
the lamb. To underscore why that is, we know we
read in Scripture that he's the unblemished Lamb of God
that takes away the sins of the world. So there's
that sacrificial Savior act that he did for you and
me that he would want to be known for. That underscores, again,
(32:05):
does it not? I did this for you because I
love you.
S7 (32:09):
That's right, that's right. And so it will make that
millennial period a wonderful time when we recognize that this
is the lamb who laid down his life for the
sins of the world, and worshipping around the throne there
in Jerusalem, that thousand years is going to be a
glorious time. It is hard to imagine You're right. But, um,
it's this whole idea of saints with glorified bodies, in
(32:31):
the same way that Jesus had a glorified body in
the 40 days he walked the earth before he ascended
back into heaven. But we will also be coexisting with
people who came through the tribulation period, who confessed Jesus
as Savior. They will be living out their lives and
marrying and having children, but it will be a place
of great utopia like never known before.
S1 (32:51):
Yeah, unbelievable. Can't even begin to.
S7 (32:53):
Imagine heaven, right? Quite heaven. But it's still. It's going
to be the most peaceful time we've ever known on earth.
S1 (32:58):
Exactly right. Exactly. And you know, when Craig and I
talk about this, I always say, you know, there's a
point at which my sanctified imagination has to come to
an end because I have a little tiny Mickey Mouse mind,
and he is God, and his thoughts are far above mine.
And so it's like Christmas. They're going to be some surprises.
I'm glad, I'm glad. I don't know everything now. There's
going to be exciting. I can trust him. I believe
in him. I believe everything he said is good and
(33:20):
true and right. And so whatever it is, it's going
to be fabulous. Even if I can't imagine it. And
all I can think of is Paul being told you
were the third heaven. Keep your mouth closed. So it's
got to be fantastic, right?
S7 (33:31):
I think it was JB Phillips who said, If God
were small enough for me to understand, he wouldn't be
big enough for me to worship, right?
S1 (33:37):
Amen. So true, so very true. All right, so here's
a couple of the buzz things that people always think
about about the book of revelation. So who or what
is the Antichrist. And there really is a false trinity
that comes out of this time period. Talk to me
about that.
S7 (33:52):
So we first see a reference to the Antichrist in
Revelation chapter six. And it talks about how John saw
on a white horse one who sat on it with
a bow and a crown. The bow had no arrows,
so it indicates that he comes under the guise of peace.
But it's a false peace, and he's wearing a crown,
(34:13):
but it's an inferior crown. The Greek word is stephanos. It's.
It's different from the diadema crown that Jesus will have.
So he presents himself as a as a leader. And
then we read more about them in revelation 13, where
he talks about how John says, I saw a beast
rising from the sea. It doesn't mean a sea creature.
It means from the sea of humanity. The Antichrist rises.
(34:36):
He's this geopolitical leader who will dominate the world as
a dictator, and he will present himself like a messiah.
And unfortunately, many Jews will believe that he is the
Messiah and he makes a covenant of peace with Israel
for seven years, Daniel tells us. But he breaks that
covenant in the middle of the seven years, and then
(34:56):
the eyes of people are opened and they realize this
is the abomination of desolation spoken of by the prophet
Daniel that Jesus refers to. And this political, charismatic leader
will have this temporary dictatorship over the earth. But he is,
just as his title suggests, he's Antichrist. He's everything against
(35:17):
Christ and presents himself to be God and and Jesus,
when he comes, will overthrow the Antichrist.
S1 (35:24):
Wow. Okay. So the Antichrist is one aspect of all
of this. Where does the false prophet fit into this?
S7 (35:31):
So false prophet. Also, he's, um, like the the dynamic
false duo with the Antichrist and the false prophet is
this worldly religious leader of a worldly religious system. And, um,
you know, back in the 1930s and 40s, the church
then thought maybe Adolf Hitler is the Antichrist and Benito
(35:53):
Mussolini or Stalin is the false prophet. And so we
have seen many Antichrist small a over the course of history.
But there is coming the Antichrist capital A and his cohort,
the false prophet. And then you have the dragon, which
is Satan, who gives power to both the Antichrist and
the false prophet. So that's that unholy trinity of the Antichrist,
(36:17):
Satan and the false prophet, and they're coming onto the
world scene. Of course, Satan's already here, but these other
two are coming onto the world scene.
S1 (36:25):
Yeah. Note to file doesn't end well for them. You
got to read the book of revelation.
S7 (36:29):
That's right.
S1 (36:30):
The book is called standing on the Edge of Eternity
The End Times according to revelation. Pastor Gary Hamrick is
the author. I've got it on my info page. Easy
for you to get there. Just go to in the
market with Janet Parshall, right under the synopsis of each
of the hours we do each day, you're going to
see a red box. It says program details and audio.
Click that on takes you to the information page. There's
(36:50):
a longer bio for Gary, and right next to him
is the book standing on the Edge of Eternity. You
can click on through to get your copy of the
book and underneath a direct link to Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia.
More with Pastor Gary Hamrick right after this. Pastor Gary
(37:20):
Hamrick is with us, senior pastor at Cornerstone Chapel in Leesburg, Virginia.
He's got a brand new book out that's fabulous on
the book of Revelation. It's called standing on the Edge
of Eternity. And let me just say again, and you
always hear me say this about books I love. I
can't this is not a book report, okay? There's 22
chapters in revelation, and every one of them is worth studying.
In fact, Gary, when you preach through revelation, how many
(37:43):
weeks does it take you to do it? If you
can do it uninterrupted?
S7 (37:46):
Uh, it took me about a year, year and a half,
I think. And by the way, the publisher actually had
the idea of each chapter in the book corresponds to
the chapter of revelation. So when you're reading chapter one,
you're reading revelation one, and so on. So I thought
that was pretty a pretty good idea.
S1 (38:05):
Again, user friendly. I mean, it's a wonderful way, as
you're going through it, to be able to just see
these wonderful comments from Gary as you're reading through the
book of Revelation. So let me, in deference to time,
and I just I want to underscore the book is
filled with so much more than even the precious gift
of irreplaceable time from Gary. I can't possibly cover. So
I just really want to underscore that this should be
(38:26):
a part of your legacy library. This is the kind
of book that you need as you're studying in God's
Word every single day, so that you're not afraid it
isn't an accident or an afterthought that God put revelation
in there. It is about us being looking forward with
joyous anticipation to the return of our King, and in
his full glory in all that he's done for us
will be revealed. I've often said, when I get there,
(38:46):
I'm spending the first million years with my face to
the ground because I just don't know what it's going
to be like to behold him face to face. So
I get excited reading what's going to happen. So on
that note and this and again, I think people sometimes
don't understand the sort of longitudinal aspect of eschatology. But
when we come back, eventually there is a new heaven
and a new earth, and this gets even more interesting.
(39:08):
So where does that happen? And what do you and
I do as followers of Christ, who now have a
glorified body, were with him? What are we doing for
the rest of our lives for all eternity.
S7 (39:20):
Yeah, that's a great question. Um, you know, whatever it is,
I can guarantee this. It'll be far better than the
way life is on Earth. You know, I always tell
people when they're like, well, will, I will. I know
my loved ones. Yes. Will I this will I that.
And I just always remind people, whatever you love will
be even better on in heaven. And nothing that we, uh,
(39:41):
are so burdened by here on earth will be present.
There will be a new heaven and a new earth.
The present earth and present heavens will be done away with.
And God will, uh, bring about this wonderful new earth.
It will literally be, you know, that expression, heaven on earth.
It will be this new Jerusalem, this new heaven coming
out of the, uh, God's creation to be present on earth.
(40:04):
And we will live with him and rule and reign
with him. I think that much of our time, Janet
is going to be just worshiping him, but enjoying, enjoying,
just being in his presence. Uh, and I look forward
to whatever all of that is. It's just going to
be a glorious time around this throne.
S1 (40:22):
Exactly. And if I understand this correctly, we're going to work.
I mean, he's going to give us jobs. And I
remember Billy Graham saying, I want to be mayor of Jerusalem.
And I remember Cliff Barrow saying, I want to direct
the Heavenly Choir. So those two jobs are clearly taken already. Yeah.
S7 (40:36):
I've asked to be mayor over Bermuda, but the Bible
says there's no more islands because they all vanished. So?
So I have to find something else to do. But yeah,
you're right. It's not like we're going to be sitting
on clouds with harps and chubby little babies that, you know,
just sing all the time. It's going to be a
glorious time of living and working and ruling and reigning
with him. It's just going to be a glorious time.
S1 (40:57):
Exactly. And one of the reasons why I want to
linger here, and why this is such an appropriate note
for us to end our conversation on, is that if
you're not in his word, if you aren't deeply, madly
in love with the Savior who is the unconditional lover
of your soul, why would you be looking forward to heaven?
We're thinking, by the way, we've let the Renaissance art
period define this. We've let Hollywood define this, and we're
(41:17):
thinking to ourselves all of eternity, all I'm going to
do is sing praise and worship songs. That sounds pretty
boring to me. But if the centrality of the experience
is being in the presence of Jesus himself, I to
me an eternity is probably not going to be long enough.
I mean, and then to be able to join him
in working, it seems to me, and this is just
my $0.02 from the peanut gallery, that this is taking
(41:38):
us back to Eden again, that whatever this new earth is,
will be Edenic in its existence.
S7 (41:44):
Yeah, I would agree, because you see the tree of
life present in revelation chapter 22 that we last see
in in Genesis. And so, yes, it will be it's
whatever Eden was like. It's going to be this glorious
revamping of Eden that in a in a wonderful, eternal way,
and we will be enjoying each other's company. One of
(42:06):
the things that I love about Jesus in his glorified form,
was that he was recognized by his disciples and and
in the same way that Peter, James and John, they
were taken up on the Mount of Transfiguration. They recognized
Moses and Elijah, though they had never met them. And
so we will recognize our loved ones. We will be
able to meet Moses and Elijah and the apostle Paul
(42:28):
and John and and it's going to be a wonderful time,
a glorious time just interacting and fellowshipping and living life
to its fullest around the throne of Jesus.
S1 (42:38):
Exactly, exactly. And I'm so glad you brought up the
idea that he was recognized, because we've got over 500
witnesses to the resurrected Christ. And there are a couple
of takeaways, I think, as we're looking through this glass dimly.
And one of them is, I think we eat in
heaven because Jesus was eating fish when he was along
the Sea of Galilee. So that gives me a little
sneak peek. So if you're going to eat, there has
to be food. If there's food, there have to be gardeners,
(43:00):
if there's gardeners, there has to be hydration. Oh, this
is where it gets interesting. I thought there was going
to be no rain in heaven. So how do we
hydrate the gardens in heaven or on the new earth?
S7 (43:09):
Yeah. Well, you know, even before rain came in the
days of Noah, There was this internal system of the
misting of artesian wells underneath that that misted and watered
the earth. So maybe it'll be a terrarium kind of
effect again. But, um, it's just going to be a
wonderful time. I know we don't know all of the details,
(43:31):
but that's okay, because God has saved like, desert. He
always saves the best for last.
S1 (43:37):
That's so good. All right, so it's a capstone to this.
And again, let me underscore 22 chapters. And we didn't
get through 22 chapters. So there's a plethora of information
for you to read and to glean from what Gary
has written. What's our biggest takeaway from revelation? What's the
most important thing we should know?
S7 (43:53):
The most important thing to know is that the Lord
loves us, and he has revealed his plan to us,
that we might be saved and spend eternity with him.
And that's the book of revelation to get ready because
he's coming again.
S1 (44:05):
Amen. And even so, come, Lord Jesus. I hope it's
before dinner tonight, Gary. Thank you. That's exactly right. Thank you, brother,
for your time. Thank you for your excellent teaching. Thank
you for a superb book. And now this is. We've
got one down. Okay. This is the book of revelation.
You only have 65 more to go, Gary. So you
can just write from Genesis all the way through to Jude.
(44:25):
We'll get the rest of them covered. The book is
called standing on the Edge of Eternity The End Times
according to revelation. Again, I've got it set up on
my website so you can click on through to get
your copy. And also I have a link to Cornerstone
Chapel in Leesburg. People around the world listen every single week,
midweek service and Sunday as well. So check it out.
I know you're going to be edified, equipped and encouraged
(44:47):
and enlightened. And then, like me, you're going to hear
Gary get you out there in the marketplace of ideas
where you can influence and occupy until he comes. Thanks
so much for joining us. Friends love to spend the
time with you. We'll see you next time right here
on In the Market with Janet Parshall.
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