September 30, 2025 • 45 mins
The feminine life is beautiful, yet navigating womanhood isn’t easy. Women are bombarded with competing voices and messages from both outside the church and within it. Is there a compelling alternative to the narratives clamoring for women’s allegiance? Kendra Dahl will join us to invite women to embrace their dignity and delight that God made them female, persevering in the way of Christ with courage and conviction.
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S1 (00:00):
Hi friends, thanks so much for downloading this podcast and
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(00:21):
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(00:43):
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(01:50):
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S2 (02:02):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (02:04):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (02:06):
Americans worshipping government over God.
S1 (02:09):
Extremely rare safety move by a 17 years.
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The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S1 (02:30):
Hi, friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall.
Thanks so much for choosing to spend the hour with me.
So in that cacophony that represents the marketplace of ideas,
one of the busy booths is the one that talks
about the sexes. And yet, no, we're not going to
talk about transgenderism. That's a conversation for another day. We're
just going to talk about men and women as God
(02:50):
himself defined them. But therein lies the challenge, because we've
got the culture roaring at us as women telling us
what we should do. Boy, I tell you what. My
life began when I was having four babies back to back.
And I'd look outside my front door and it was
Death Valley days. There was nobody in the neighborhood. Why?
Because they'd all listened quite literally to the siren song
(03:12):
that said, A woman needs a man, like a fish
needs a bicycle. And then they said, I had to
self-actualize outside of my home. And then they said that, uh,
really and truly, that motherhood was an illegal profession. So
that's the kind of stuff I heard when I was
raising my kids. And thank you, Lord, that your voice
is still or sweeter, stronger, better and more kind and
(03:32):
compassionate and loving than any howling done by the sirens
of the culture. But that problem that they were dealing with,
those feminists of the day, they recognized that there are
some real issues out there, but their response, their conclusion,
their way of handling the wrong was utterly wrong. So
now we have a conundrum. There's a real issue out there.
(03:52):
How do we handle it? And then, oh, yeah, there's
women in the church. And then there's another controversy of
another kind. So are we God's afterthought? Are we second
class citizens in his economy? What does it mean to
be a helper? Why are there regulatory guidelines? Rules? More
to the point of what women should not do in
the church? But why is it not so clearly stated
(04:14):
what women can do in the church? And so where
do you come down? Are you egalitarian? Are you complementarian?
You have those 50 cent theological words that have meaning
and importance? So where in the world does a woman
find her place? And that's what we're going to talk
about this hour. In fact, our conversation is going to
emanate from a new book called A place for You
Reframing Christian Womanhood. The author, Kendra Dahl, she's going to
(04:34):
be our guest this hour. She is a Christ follower
and a writer. She has a master's in biblical studies
from Westminster Seminary in California. She's the author of How
to Keep Your Faith. After high school, she is passionate
about helping people live in view of God's mercies, united
to Christ and anchored in the scriptures. Amen, Amen, Amen
to that. She is a wife, she is a mom
and she is our guest for the hour. Kendra, thanks
(04:56):
for the gift of your time. Thank you for this
book and thank you for tackling this topic. It is
not a subject that cowards should take up because no
matter what you do, it's the Abraham Lincoln posture. You're
going to play some of the people all the time,
all of the people some of the time. But you
sure ain't going to please all the people all the
time on this topic. And yet you chose to tackle it.
Tell me why.
S5 (05:17):
You know, uh, as you describe that, I think why
did I try to tackle this topic? Maybe I was crazy. Uh, no.
You know, I am a woman who grew up in
the church but became disillusioned by my faith, um, when
I was in college. And so I left the church.
And then I kind of stumbled my way back in
as a single mom. And especially because I came in
as a single mom, I really struggled to understand my place.
(05:40):
You know, what does the church do with me if
I'm a a woman with a child but without a husband?
And and as I started to ask those questions and
started to press against some of the assumptions that we
were making about where women fit, I wasn't happy, I
wasn't I wasn't satisfied with the answers I was getting,
and and I really wanted to have my mindset formed
by the scriptures and so that as now that daughter
(06:01):
has grown up, she's a senior in high school, about
to launch that first one and another one behind her.
And I've just become really passionate about helping young women
in particular. But all of us who didn't have that foundation,
that theological rooting to help us define who God says
we are and what he has called us to. I
really want to equip them well to to do that.
S1 (06:21):
Amen. And I'm so glad you're doing that, because women
in particular, if we're not grounded in the scriptures, we
are going to be tossed to and fro by both
the culture and sometimes by misguided teaching in the church
as well. So our answer is always what the word
has to say. So thank you for that. Can I
go back to your your, your spiritual journey? And you
say you were raised in a Christian home and you
(06:41):
grew up and as you grew up and went off
to university, you became disillusioned. What caused that disillusionment with
your faith?
S5 (06:50):
Yeah, throughout my middle and high school years, you know,
I really struggled to live up to the standard of
Christianity that was presented to me. You know, I really
internalize this gospel of follow the rules, and I was
really bad at following the rules. And so I kind
of collected shame as I went through those years. And
by the time I went to college, that shame was
so heavy and I really didn't understand the gospel of grace.
(07:12):
And so all I knew was to try to pick
myself up by my bootstraps and try harder, do better.
And then I would continually fall on my face. And
so I was tired of feeling like a disappointment. I
was tired of worshiping a God who just seemed like
this angry dad, always staring down at me, telling me
I wasn't good enough. And so I left the church
to to really find a gospel that was a little
more like follow your dreams or be all you can be. Right. Um,
(07:36):
and turns out that that actually doesn't hold any water either.
And it wasn't until I came back into the church, uh,
you know, as a young adult with my daughter in tow,
and and I couldn't hide my shame anymore. Right. You know,
I say like I used to be able to hide
my shame, but now I pushed her around in a
stroller everybody could see. And yet, when I went to
that church, the pastor said, you know, the gospel isn't
(07:56):
try harder. It's actually try less. And I was angry
because that felt like something that I had never heard before.
But as I leaned in, you know, I went home.
I opened my Bible to the book of Romans, and
I saw this description of people who had exchanged the
truth about God for lies, and that just wrecked me. I,
for the first time, I saw myself in those pages
and realized that there was absolutely nothing that I brought
(08:18):
to Christ, but that Christ did and accomplished all for me,
and that he had paid for every sin that I have,
have committed and will commit in full, and there's nothing
I can do to make up for that. And that
transformed my life. You know, I say, I bought into
all these different gospels along the way, but this one,
Christ Jesus, came into the world to save sinners. That's
(08:39):
the the true gospel. And it's the one that actually
did change my life.
S1 (08:43):
Amen, Amen. Took a little chutzpah to say I'm going
to walk back into church. What drew you? What made
you make that decision?
S5 (08:50):
Yeah. I have the most wonderful, godly parents who just, uh,
they preach what I like to call the family gospel.
They they consistently said, you're welcome here. You can come home.
There's always a place for you at our table in
our home. And and I had other Christian friends who
who had the same thing. Right. These people who just
love me well and were willing to walk with me,
even as I was questioning and rejecting the things that
(09:13):
they had taught me. And so it was really their
love that drew me back into the church.
S1 (09:18):
Wow. Wow. Parents. Take note. Kendra Dahl is with us.
She's the author of the book A place for You
Reframing Christian Womanhood. It's rich theology. I mean, it is
really a wonderful, wonderful book that really it's not what
the culture says. It isn't what tradition says. It's what
the Scripture says. And that's what really should matter. That's
why I constantly say, come on, friends, what we are
(09:39):
are Bereans. We test all things. So everybody's got an opinion.
I want to know what God wants me to know.
And I know that by being in His Word, we're
going to open that word on this topic about women
right after this. Did you know that there are 69
(10:08):
references to fasting in Scripture? Yet most Christians don't really
understand its power. That's why I've chosen the Supernatural Power
of prayer and Fasting by Doctor Ronnie Floyd as this
month's truth tool. Learn how prayer and fasting can bring
profound transformation. As for your copy of The Supernatural Power
of Prayer and Fasting, when you give a gift of
any amount to in the market, call 877. 58 that's
877 Janet 58 or go to in the market with Janet.
(10:34):
Kendra is with us. She is an author. A Christ follower,
loves the word excellent writer. Her new book is called
A place for You Reframing Christian Womanhood. So I'm belaboring
it's not really belaboring. It's fascinating to me, by the way,
but I want to take the time to develop your journey,
because sometimes our experience frames our viewpoint. And so I
want to find out. So here you are as a
(10:56):
single mom. You go back to a church thanks to
loving parents who practice, as you called it. And I
love this, the family gospel. You hear the message of
the gospel of grace. You start to flourish in that church.
Recognizing that God loved you, gave his life for you
while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. And
so you're in this church. You eventually marry, you have babies. Um,
(11:17):
but you're restless. So pick up the story from there, because,
you know, can I just tell you woman to woman
because nobody else is listening? Um, it's so often that
when we have kids, we think we should be totally satisfied.
And that is absolutely true. In truth, sometimes we're utterly overwhelmed.
I had four babies under six, and I couldn't tell
(11:38):
you what day of the week it was most of
the time. And then when you get four cases of
chickenpox at the same time, that's it. You've checked out.
But the reality is you sometimes you think to yourself,
is that all there is? So talk to me about
this idea that is it wrong for you to say, Lord,
I know this is the most important job I'll ever have,
but what if I want to do something else? You
(11:59):
were at that point, too, where you watched your husband
in seminary and you started to get an idea. Talk
to me about that.
S5 (12:05):
Yes, I definitely was asking that question of is it
okay to want more than this? Is it okay to
want to use my brain to use the ways that
God has gifted and called me? And, you know, man,
I just I loved those babies, but those were some
dark days, right? Home with toddlers. And, um, I started,
you know, exploring women who were writing and teaching about
(12:29):
theology and teaching about the Bible. I went to a
women's conference, and I heard women exegete the scriptures and
just stood there and wept because I, I thought, I
want to know my Bible the way she does. I
want to be able to handle the scriptures the way
that she does. Um, but when I went back to
my church and with this zeal for, seeing women equipped
to handle the scriptures that way I was met with
(12:49):
a lot of resistance. And so that began kind of
this wrestle between, you know, just in my heart as
I'm wrestling with the word to say, okay, it looks
to me like God calls women to be disciples who
love him with our minds as well as our hearts.
And it looks to me like there are a myriad ways,
myriad of ways, that women can contribute to the church
(13:10):
and to society, in addition to their wonderful calling in
the home. And so my husband and I really started
to work that out together. Okay. What does it look
like for us to honor the way the Lord has
gifted and wired us, as well as the callings that
he's entrusted to us? There's a very real season that
motherhood requires some intensity. Right? Um. And yet, when I'm
(13:31):
not flourishing under it, it allowed us to ask the question,
you know, is it possible that there are maybe things
that would be life giving and enriching, that complement this season,
that the Lord has placed us in? And so when
we moved to go to seminary, um, you know, the
plan was my husband would go first. You know, I
if if the Lord allowed, we would be. I would
(13:52):
hope to follow. But, you know, I was probably going
to have to homeschool. We're in a new place. We
don't know what that's going to look like. And and
the Lord just very sweetly provided he provided a school
for our children, he provided the supportive environment, the financial help,
and allowed me to go to school as well. And
and through that process that continued to just fill out
this conviction I have that women are called to be theologians, too,
(14:14):
that women are called to contribute in many ways across
many seasons. And, um, and that it's okay for us
to pursue the equipping that's required for what the Lord
has called us to. And it's okay to, uh, be
multifaceted humans who are not just stuck in one sphere,
but actually can, uh, you know, embrace the diversity of
(14:35):
life that the Lord has set before us.
S1 (14:37):
Yeah. Now. So let me dig in. You want to
go to seminary? Okay. That's not the same as saying
I'm going to take a career Bible study. I'm going
to go to seminary. So when you were praying about this,
what did you envision the Lord calling you to do
that made you have to walk through seminary to get
where he was calling you?
S5 (14:57):
Yeah, I was doing a lot of writing and teaching already,
and and what I noticed is that seminary was definitely
optional for women who were serving in ministry spaces. And
that's not to disparage women who are faithfully serving in
those spaces. I have a good friend who talks about
how she's theologically homeschooled, and I love that. Right. Uh,
we can be homeschooled in seminary trained, right? Um, but
(15:19):
for me, I just really valued that formal education to
say if I'm going to be speaking into women's lives,
if I'm going to be handling the scriptures, you don't
have to take to heart what James Warren said. You know,
those who teach should hold it with trepidation, right? I
want to have the, uh, the background and the foundation
to be able to do that. Well. Um, so that
that's really what drove me into seminary was to say,
(15:41):
I think we need to call women to the standard
of credibility and training that we often hold men to,
but not women. Um, and, and I know that there's
a lot that I don't know. And I wanted to
have some intentional time to work through my convictions.
S1 (15:55):
Wow. So you really wanted to be very prepared for
whatever God was calling you to. And he had already
given you some of the desires of your heart, which
was the writing and the teaching. So you write in
the book about a day in which you were in
the position of being the new women's discipleship director, and
women poured in by the tens and 20s and hundreds
(16:15):
into the room. And you text your husband that you
wanted to hide in the bathroom, all of this that
you had done and you wanted to check out. But
he gave you two Latin words that I want our
audience to hear, remember, and apply. What were those two
words and what did they mean?
S5 (16:30):
Yes, the two words were quorum Dale. And that means
before God's face, and I love. I learned that from R.C. Sproul.
He talks about to live quorum Dale is to is
to truly live your whole life oriented before the face
of God. And that's how our family when when I
describe what I mean by the word courage, that's what
I mean. Courage is not being, uh, that you're not afraid.
(16:51):
It's that you fear God. You don't fear, man, that
you live before God's face not for the approval of others. And, uh,
that is just really the foundation of the ministry. I
feel like the Lord has called me to to call
women into conviction. Into courage.
S1 (17:04):
Yeah. And in fact, you divide the book up into
two parts. Just that conviction. Courage. Tell me why.
S5 (17:11):
Yeah, I love a friend of mine. Always would talk
about how we need to know our own minds. And
this is something that I've become passionate about as a
mom of daughters. And really, I realized, you know, in hindsight,
that my dad raised me this way. We need to
be women who know what we believe and why we
believe it, and then to be equipped to actually live
it out. Yeah. So that's where conviction and courage really
(17:31):
become the pillars that I think help help us grow
as women who are confident in God's Word.
S1 (17:36):
Excellent. Now, friends, you got an overview of what the
book is like. So she does divide the book up
into those two sections, uh, Conviction and courage. Rich theology
and good applied Christianity as well. So when we come back,
not a book review, I want to give you a
sense of what the book is about so that you'll
be interested enough, much more than interested, deeply curious enough
(17:57):
to find out exactly what does the God say? What
does God say about our value as women back after this?
Kendra Dahl is with us. She has written the book
A place for You Reframing Christian Womanhood. And there's so
(18:19):
many questions out there, I think this book is timely,
as prescient, and it's biblical most important at all. This
is a woman who loves God's Word. After all, she
went to seminary. She doesn't take a Bible study class.
She went to seminary. She got a master's in biblical
studies from Westminster Seminary in California. She wanted to know
what she believed and why she believed it, which happens
to be the title of a book by Doctor Paul
(18:40):
Little that said exactly the same thing. We just don't
want to believe it. We want to know what we
believe and why we believe it. How else can we
contend for the faith, as it says in the book
of Jude? So in the first half of the book,
under conviction, you talk about your background, but then you
also talk about being wanted, storied and commissioned. You take
three words that are important. Let me just talk about
being the value of a woman again. You know, don't
(19:03):
let the world teach you theology. So we sorry, but
we live in a culture right now that can't even
define what it means to be a woman. Push that
chaos aside for a minute, and let's just go biblically.
How do we eradicate the idea, the lies of the enemy?
More to the point, that says that somehow we're an afterthought,
that Adam was made first, that Eve was responsible for
(19:23):
eating the fruit. Therefore, we're the ones that suffer in childbirth.
ET cetera, et cetera. ET cetera. ET cetera. How do
we find value in that? Because if you listen to
the roar of the culture today, um, it's a misogynistic book.
We shouldn't be reading it. And there's very difficult ways
for you to even begin to think you have value
in that book. So how do we find my value?
How do we find our value in the Word of God?
S5 (19:46):
Yeah. You know, this is why I use that word reframing,
because I think that we have, uh, we've been trained
to come to the biblical text with sort of our
own assumptions, and especially when it comes to the first
few chapters of Genesis, you know, we have been taught
that those teach us so much about what it means
to be a man and a woman, and how that
means we're supposed to live like that. These become these normative, uh,
(20:08):
you know, symbols for all men and all women who
go from the garden. And yet, I think that we
have to come to the text, letting it speak for itself.
We have to say, what does the why? Why did
the biblical author write it this way? Why did he
put it here? Why is this how this biblical story starts?
And if we believe that the whole story, that the
Bible is all one story that culminates in Christ, then
(20:29):
we need to see not just the foundation of humanity
in Genesis one through three, but the foundation of redemptive history.
And so I think that that's, you know, step one,
we have to go to the text and say, okay,
what is God showing us about his image bearers, these
men and women, male and female, he created them. Okay.
We know that it does define us as male and
female image bearers. But but what is the implication of
(20:52):
their interaction in the garden of the created order of,
of what happens in the fall and how God responds?
And I think what we'll find there is actually that
it has a lot more to do with Jesus than
with us, that when God creates Adam first, he's setting
him up as a representative of the human race because
he can try to achieve eternal life for us. And
so what happens? The climax of the fall is not
(21:14):
Eve eating the fruit, it's actually Adam. Because when Adam falls,
we all fell with him. Romans five tells us, uh,
but that's such good news that God gave us a
representative for the human race, because it means that when
Christ comes, he can represent us, that in him we
can find salvation. So in Adam we are all dead
to sin, but in Christ we can be made alive
to righteousness. And so that really is what is being
(21:37):
established in this created or creation narrative. When you've got
this created order and you're you're showing Adam as sort
of the the predominant character in the text. It's not
because men are more important than women, but it's actually
because this is the foundation of a very important story
that will define all of our lives. And so I
think the same is true when we look at the
(21:58):
fall and how God interacts with Adam and Eve. You know,
we're so prone to see the way God confronts with judgment,
which he does, because sin is devastating and it has
a huge impact on all of humanity. And yet God
doesn't just destroy them. You know, he could he would
be totally just to just, like, wipe out his image bearers.
You failed. I told you, you're going to die. If
you did that, you did it. You're out of here.
S1 (22:19):
Right, right, right.
S5 (22:20):
And instead, he. He comes with such mercy. And I
think that communicates the value of his image bearers that
they are worth saving the man and the woman. They
have failed in their task. And yet God, in his kindness,
meets them with mercy and promises redemption and restoration. So
I think that really those are the key things that
we need to see in that Genesis narrative, and that
(22:42):
those are going to really shape how we interpret the
value of men and women and the ways that we
interact with each other going forward.
S1 (22:48):
Yeah, that's so good. Um, I was thinking when you
were talking to the scripture, it's Eve who takes the
bite than she gives it to her husband. But when
we read about the first and second Adam, it's not
Eve they're talking about. I mean, you could take the
Chaucer esque idea of mankind being all humankind, and I
have no problem with that. But by man came death.
The Scripture tells us. So that's very interesting. That takes
(23:10):
us then to this word complementarian. Now that, you know,
a lot of people are not using that in everyday parlance,
it's certainly a strong and important theological word. You define it,
I think, beautifully in the book. So define for those
listening right now, what do we mean when we talk
about being complementarian in this relationship between men and women
according to Scripture?
S5 (23:30):
Yeah, I think people do define the word differently, and
that is why I define it in the book to.
To be clear, this is how I use the word
complementarian because I think it is very useful word. It's
it's to say that God created men and women equal
in dignity and value, but with distinct roles. And in
particularly in the church and in the home. So, uh, we,
we hold to equality, but also differentiation that I think is, um,
(23:54):
is important to note.
S1 (23:56):
And I love the fact that you and I'm so
glad you underscore this. My challenge is I think it's
imperative that, particularly in these latter days, we learn to
think more critically. And I love the idea that you
talk about holding ideas in tension. So two things can
be true at the same time, right? And this is
exactly the picture of complementarianism that we are equal, but
we are deeply, significantly different in the roles that we play.
(24:18):
They complement one another, but they're unique. But there's no
question of equality here, which I think is paramount. And
I think the world has failed to hear that. Tell
me a little bit more of your thoughts about that, Kendra,
when we get back. The book is called A place
for You Reframing Christian Womanhood, written by Kendra Dahl, who
is a Christ follower and a writer. She has written
the book How to Keep Your Faith After High School.
(24:39):
She's passionate about helping people live within the parameters of
God's mercy, and to be united in him through his
written word. More with Kendra right after this. Anyone can
(25:16):
read the news every day on in the market. We're
committed to telling the news as seen through the lens
of Scripture. As Christians, we must be informed about what's
going on in the world and respond appropriately. When you
become a partial partner, you ensure that we continue here
on your station, equipping the church to discuss current events,
using the Bible as our solid foundation, why not become
a partial partner today? Call 877 Janet 58 or go
(25:37):
online to in the market with Janet Parshall. Kendra dial
is with us. She is a Christ follower and a writer.
She has a master's in biblical Studies from Westminster Seminary
in California. She's the author of How to Keep Your Faith.
After high school, she's passionate about helping people live in
view of God's mercies united to Christ, anchored in the scriptures.
(25:58):
She's a wife, she's a mom, and she's written a
great book called A place for You Reframing Christian Womanhood.
And it's really wonderfully timed, as this ongoing argument is
out there about complementarian and egalitarian. So let me appeal
to your greater education and ask you to break down
for us. You just defined complementarian, which I think is great.
(26:19):
You said, and I'm reading right from the book. Uh,
the term means that while both males and females are
of equal value in God's creation, they have different roles
to fulfill equal value. Two important words in God's creation.
How is that different from being an egalitarian?
S5 (26:37):
Yes, with the egalitarian perspective, typically they're going to say
there there is no distinction in the roles that we're
able to fulfill as men and women. And so where
in the complementarian world we're going to restrict the roles
of the ordained office of pastor elder to only qualified men,
and to say that men are married men are the
heads of their households where Egalitarians aren't going to make
(26:59):
those distinctions, they're going to point to just an equality
of the sexes in all spheres of life.
S1 (27:05):
Right. And I'm asking you a leading question from your
vantage point. Having studied the scriptures, do you see any
legitimacy to the egalitarian position, or do you think Scripture
supports the complementarian position?
S5 (27:17):
You know, I am a convicted complementarian. I you know,
I tried I tried not to I tried not to be. Uh,
but as I studied the text, I just wasn't persuaded.
I'm persuaded that the Complementarian view aligns with the biblical text,
and that those restrictions for the church and this call
to husbands to be heads of their households, just really
do reflect the, um, the way headship is set up
(27:40):
throughout Scripture. But I do think that it can be misapplied.
And I do think that there are extreme cases where
we're over defining what that headship looks like, where we're
over restricting the ways that women can contribute. And I
certainly think that this can be, you know, abused in
a lot of spaces as well.
S1 (27:55):
I concur, and I think that's why your book is important,
because what you do is, is you're a wonderful writer,
very gifted writer.
S5 (28:01):
But thank you.
S1 (28:02):
Your opinion takes second place to what the Word of
God has to say. And I think that has to
be paramount for us as believers that you can say,
this is what the scriptures teach, but your opinion doesn't
matter in light of what the truth of Scripture teaches us.
And that's why I think this is so good, because
what you're saying is, I don't think the egalitarian position
can be supported scripturally, but you have to make sure
(28:23):
that that complementarian position, uh, equal value, different roles isn't
used as a cudgel, and it often is to keep
women in their place and be quiet. And. ET cetera.
ET cetera. So that's why I think you started out
wisely by talking about understanding our value as women. You know,
I look at it as a question of God's sovereignty.
And I think that's so much of the trans issue
(28:44):
right now is really, at its core, the question of
God's sovereignty. In his sovereignty. He chose the head of
the color of my hair, the color of my eyes,
and whether I would come into this world as a
man or a woman, who am I to question that?
What is man that thou art mindful of him? So
this is a question of his sovereignty being shown in
the way I made. He could have made me a man.
He chose to make me a woman. Well, thank you God.
(29:07):
Now let me discover what it is you want me
to do as a woman. Never. Second class, never short shrift,
but absolutely understanding I have value in his world. Now
that takes me to your talking in the second part
of the book about having courage. And one of them is,
is this idea of being called a weaker vessel? I
know that's like nails on a blackboard to some women
out there who don't understand who they are in light
(29:29):
of God's mercy and his love and his plan. But
you pose a very interesting question. You said, what if
weaker isn't worse? What if God actually has a good
use for this apparently weaker sex? That is an intriguing question.
Talk to me about it.
S5 (29:45):
Yeah. You know, I think that that word weaker, it
comes from first Peter three, right? Where Peter says, husbands
live with your wives in an understanding way. Honor her
as a weaker vessel. And that word weaker has been
interpreted so many different ways to say women are morally
inferior to men. They're intellectually inferior to men. They're emotionally
weaker than men. Right. Um, and we've, you know, if
(30:06):
you look through the history, you think this is why
women weren't permitted to vote or you know, how, uh,
how these different practices were justified across the decades. And yet,
if you really think about how women are weaker and
even the context of Peter, he's protecting these women. He's saying,
you know, husbands don't use your physical strength to overpower
(30:27):
your physically weaker wife. I mean, that's something that we
can support in our embodied differences that yes, there's a
bell curve, right? With outliers on either side. But in general,
most men are physically stronger than most women. And so
when Peter is referring to this weaker vessel, that's what
he has in mind. Women are weaker than men. And
as a result, that puts them in this vulnerable, vulnerable
(30:49):
position throughout the ages because they, uh, they could be
overpowered by the men in their life and they're, um,
in danger in these relationships. If the men don't choose
to temper their strength at a, at especially at a
time in history where men had absolute power in society
and in their households, you know, they held the power
of life and death over their wives. And so here
(31:11):
Peter is calling them to something that would be very countercultural.
S1 (31:14):
Exactly. So in this case, it's the plain thing being
the plain thing. It's not indicating that women don't have
the same IQ, or they don't have the same academic
acumen as men. There's a physicality. Is this not part
of the fearfully wonderfully made equal.
S5 (31:28):
But.
S1 (31:28):
Distinct.
S5 (31:29):
Mhm. Important, yes I think I think that's so important. And,
and I think that there's something to leverage there. Right.
As the weaker vessel. Think about the places that women
can go because we're not such an intimidating presence. And
I think there's so much history that testifies to ways
that women have actually been able to leverage that weakness
to advocate then for the poor and oppressed in our midst.
S1 (31:49):
I'm glad you brought up history. Teach us about Jehosheba.
S5 (31:53):
Oh, I love Jehosheba, right. She's just this, like, secret
character tucked into the Old Testament where you have the
two warring tribes or the, you know, the warring kingdoms,
the line of David and the the unfaithful line of
Israel and and Queen Athaliah seizes the throne and is
going to destroy all of David's descendants. And this would
(32:14):
be devastating, right? Because David is who the promised Redeemer
was supposed to come through. And so you're on the
edge of your seat wondering, is this it is God's
plan over. Is has it finally been defeated? And yet
there's this girl named Jehosheba. And it says that she
takes her her brother, the the descendant of David, and
she hides him away. And, um. And then the priest
(32:37):
and Jehosheba, they they hide the king away until he's
able to arise and take the throne as he gets
a little bit older. Um, and I just love that
because she's just this invisible character. You know, it's like
we don't have to kill off the daughters. Just the sons.
But actually, it's the daughter who's going to preserve the son.
Isn't that just the best?
S1 (32:55):
And it's her weakness in that she's quiet. She's working
in the shadows. She doesn't have to be main stage.
And yet she keeps the continuity of the messianic line.
S5 (33:05):
Yes, yes. And I bring this up in my book.
But I just love the way you know. But the
word but is so often how the scriptures use God's
interruption of grace. And that's how Jehosheba story is set up.
But jehosheba, you know, she is God's agent of grace
in the narrative. And I just think that's so beautiful.
S1 (33:23):
I do too. Thank you for bringing. That's why I
say I love the rich theology of the book. Kendra.
So thank you for that. I have been really doing
a study on quiet lately, and boy are there a
lot of verses about that in Scripture. In fact, there's
one in Ruth that says, sit still, my daughter. And
I've been thinking about that one quite a bit, by
(33:44):
the way. But you talk about quiet. There is a
richness in quietude. We live in a noisy culture. There's
a woman sitting behind a microphone. But the reality is
I'm to be still and know that he is God.
But this is for women, I think, particularly important. We are,
in fact, you know, all the social science data out
there that women speak more than men do. In fact, somebody, uh,
(34:05):
bless their heart, they had nothing better to do. Counted
how many words a woman says per day versus a man.
And the number was like three times more than a man.
We just tend to be verbal. So the the choice
to be quiet, I think, is volitional for women. But
it's important, I think, in helping us grow, mature and
to grow and mature in him. Talk to me about this.
S5 (34:27):
Yes. You know, this is an area that I think
is true for both men and women. You know, God
calls us to the wise stewardship of words. And yet
there are these specific places in Scripture that tell women
to be quiet and that can, you know, not sit
with you very well. Right. If you think about it like, well, why?
Why do women have to be quiet and, and so
one thing that I try to work through in the
book is to look at the context of those passages
(34:48):
and to see that God isn't silencing women, but actually
that in those in those places, in Scripture, he's inviting
women into the learning environments. He's inviting them to come
in as students, to come in as disciples and to
learn quietly alongside the men. And so that is actually,
you know, it's an inverse of how we often think
about it. And yet, like you said, there is this temptation,
(35:10):
especially as women hearing from the culture that's inviting us
to be loud, you know, to say your truth and
to throw off people who would try to silence you.
And I think the Bible shows us this path of
wisdom that comes from a well-chosen word, from being quick
to hear and slow to speak, and that as women,
as we learn to steward our voices well, we can
(35:31):
actually become a model within the church at large of
what it looks like to to not have to be
the loudest person in the room. And then and then
that becomes a way to leverage our voices at the
right time for the ways that God has called us
to speak in faithfulness.
S1 (35:45):
Yeah. Again, quiet. Just studying that word in Scripture in
quiet and confidence shall be your strength. I mean, that's
pretty amazing. And this one, which got me teary eyed
the very first time I read it. The incorruptible beauty
of a gentle and quiet spirit is precious in the
sight of the Lord. Wow. My being quiet is something
that can be viewed as being precious. That doesn't mean.
(36:06):
And maybe here again, this is the idea's intention that
you wrote about before. Quiet doesn't mean silence, does it?
Talk to me about that.
S5 (36:14):
Yeah, I think quiet really just defines a posture, right?
It's this posture of humility before the Lord and before others.
a willingness to say, I want to listen, I want
to understand, and I want to only speak if it's
going to be speaking God's truth with grace and kindness
and mercy. You know, and I think that requires discernment.
S1 (36:33):
Yeah. And 100%, it's an excellent book, Kendra. It's called
A place for You Reframing Christian Womanhood. Kendra Dahl is
our guest. She's the writer, by the way. I have
a link to her website just go to In the
Market with Janet Parshall under the summation of the two
hours we do every day. There's a red box. It
says program details and audio. Click that on takes you
(36:54):
over the information page. You're going to see a picture
of Kendra's beautiful face, a link to her website and
on the right hand side, a place for you. Reframing
Christian womanhood. Back with Kendra right after this. A place
(37:18):
for you. reframing Christian womanhood? It is the new book
by Kendra Dahl, who loves to write. Does it exquisitely,
by the way, has a master's in biblical studies, is
the author of How to Keep Your Faith After High School,
but really and truly wanted to be so grounded when
she taught and writes that she wanted to take the
time to go to seminary and really understand the word
and how to teach it. And she did that. Got
(37:40):
a master's in biblical studies, and it shows loud and
clear in her writing and in her speaking as well.
So in deference to time, let me get to some
concluding thoughts on this, because there's oh so much in
the book that you ask us to examine, but you
really say that this is the big question at the end.
And this is really kind of started how you started
the book and your personal journey and how you conclude
(38:01):
the book as well. What is the place for the women?
This is really what we've been wanting to know all along.
And so you write that we've considered through your book
our Value and our identity what the Bible teaches about
God's female image bearers. And we've talked a lot about
our functions, what we uniquely offer with our bodies, words
and relationship, what it means to believe that there is
a place for our vulnerability, our voices, our limitations. But
(38:23):
where do we do these things? What spaces were we
meant to occupy? Huge question. How do you answer that?
S5 (38:32):
Yeah, let's just clear it up for everybody in these
few minutes. Right, right. Oh, yes. You know, one, I
think the main thing that I want to point people
back to is this idea of a primary calling. And
our primary calling is that of Christian. That the way
God shapes our identity, the way that he calls us
as male and female image bearers who have been called
(38:55):
into his son is as Christian. And that that can
really reframe how we think about vocation, where we are
first and foremost just called to love God with our heart, soul,
mind and strength and to love our neighbors. And so
that looks differently based on the season of life that
we're in, based on the families that were placed in
or the jobs that we have, based on how old
(39:15):
we are, how old our kids are based on, you know,
our experiences and our gifts and and our geographic location
and that there's just so much freedom and diversity for
the way that women can live out this vocation as
the Christians that God has called them to be. Yeah.
That doesn't mean, you know, I think that's obviously people
want to know. Okay, but what about in the church? Right.
That's where we tend to restrict women. Or what about
(39:37):
in the home? Is it okay for women to work
outside the home if they have children and things like that? And,
and you know, here too, I think there's so much freedom.
We tend to focus on restriction, um, based on, you know,
we want to say, okay, we're going to draw these
lines and we're going to keep women out. And, and
how I see those restrictions and the complementarian space, and
as I understand Scripture, is to say that the ordained
(39:59):
office of Pastor Elder is is for qualified men, not
all men indiscriminately, but qualified men. And that women are
that that's an opportunity that's not available to women. So
what can women do in the church? Anything else? You know,
I think there's the yes, there's just there's so many
ways that we exist in the church as as aunties,
as grandmas, as mothers, as sisters, as daughters, that we
(40:21):
just like a family. Everybody kind of has a part
to play. So it is in the family of God.
And I think that we spend too much time thinking
about women or not, what they're not allowed to do.
Instead of looking around and saying, there's work to do, everybody.
You know, pick pick up a task and let's get
to it. Um, and that's I think there's just so
much more freedom. Um, and it's the same when we
think about our domestic callings. You know, I think there's
(40:43):
wisdom to see the limitation of our seasons. For me,
it was a gift that God allowed me to be
home with my children for a season when they were
young and and when they went back to school, I
was able to, uh, start going to seminary. And now
I work full time and have teenagers and feel like
a crazy person all the time. The reality is, we
are limited. And because of those limitations of our season,
(41:04):
there's wisdom in saying, what are the spheres God is
calling me to focus on right now. But again, that's
not about restriction. It's about being wise and being faithful
to where God has placed us.
S1 (41:15):
Such wisdom. So two things I want to say back
that I heard you say. Number one, I think that
what you do comes in a distant second to who
you are in him. I think once we know that
Christ is our all that acts. 17 In him we
live and move and have our being. If he defines us,
if our if if we can't wait to talk to
(41:37):
him in the morning, we talk to him all day long.
We love being in his word. What role we play
on the horizontal level again pales in comparison to having
this deep, rich connection on the vertical level to the
Son of God who knows us intimately, then the whole.
For me personally, in my journey, the role I played
became not as significant as who I was in him.
(41:59):
It was that that question of being rather than doing,
which I think a lot of women in particular struggle with.
The other thing you said that I think is so paramount,
and it was my experience as well, is that women,
I think, much more than men. Here's a uniqueness. We
tend to live our lives in seasons. There was the
early married state. There was the baby stage. There were
the kids are growing up, and now you've got some
latitude to do things outside of the home stage. There's
(42:20):
raising the adult kids where you can't ground them anymore.
And it was much easier now, looking back to potty
train them than to deal with the 32 year old
that really might be walking astray at this moment. Right.
All of those things that you have in your life.
Men don't tend to have the seasonal aspect as much
as women do. And I would say to my daughters,
just live out the richness of this season. It is always,
(42:42):
I found a preparation for the next season that he'll
call you to, and the next season might not look
like the one you're in right now. But if you're
absolutely dead center in the nature and the nurture and
the preciousness of his will, don't be gasping for what
the next season holds. It'll come in due time. Just
live out the richness of the season that he has
you call right now. And so therefore titles definition. And
(43:03):
I live in a town where the hand out titles
like M&Ms. And that's a big deal in this town
in Washington. But the reality is, whatever your title is
for that season, step into it boldly. This is the
courage and the conviction to say, God, this is where
you have me. Now, when you were raising three kids
back to back. It was not the same as where
you are right now in life, and it opens doors
and opportunities and so that that where do I fit?
(43:25):
What's my place? My place is with him first, last
and always where he would have me serve. After that
is a distant second. Was that your experience too?
S5 (43:35):
It is, yes. And you know, I would want to add,
even in those seasons, for women who are single, that
you're not waiting to arrive at peak womanhood, but actually
that that is a rich and sweet season that God
has called you to and that you can steward faithfully
as well.
S1 (43:49):
Yeah, absolutely. Kendra, the book is wonderful. I should shout
out for the home team. It is published by Moody,
so check it out. It's called A place for you,
and it really is one of these important books where
if you struggled. Oh, I just there's no place for
me in the church. I don't know where God wants me.
This kind of theology just kind of takes everything and
takes it out of the fuzzy world and puts it
(44:09):
in 2020 clarity. And that's exactly the kind of writing
that Kendra does. So check it out. It's on my
information page. Again, it's called a place for You Reframing
Christian Womanhood. I also have a link to Kendra's website.
You can tell that she is a superb teacher and
a great writer, and understands her Bible inside out and
upside down. So check it out. It's at in the
Market with Janet parshall.org. Click on that red box that
(44:33):
says Program Details and Audio. It will take you to
the information page when you get there. It's all the
information you need. My heartfelt thanks again to Kendra Dale
for an excellent and timely book that really helps us
understand who we are as women, fearfully and wonderfully made,
equal and yet distinct from our male counterparts. So check
it out and maybe it'll clear up some things in
(44:53):
your life. If you've been struggling in this area, don't
forget we're listener supported radio. We got a truth tool
and at the end of every month I put it
away and we start a brand new truth tool. So
check your calendar and prayerfully consider supporting this program so
we can have more conversations like the one we just
did with Kendra. Thanks, friends. We'll see you next time
on In the Market with Janet Parshall.
Hi friends, thanks so much for downloading this podcast and
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(00:21):
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S2 (02:02):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (02:04):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (02:06):
Americans worshipping government over God.
S1 (02:09):
Extremely rare safety move by a 17 years.
S4 (02:12):
The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S1 (02:30):
Hi, friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall.
Thanks so much for choosing to spend the hour with me.
So in that cacophony that represents the marketplace of ideas,
one of the busy booths is the one that talks
about the sexes. And yet, no, we're not going to
talk about transgenderism. That's a conversation for another day. We're
just going to talk about men and women as God
(02:50):
himself defined them. But therein lies the challenge, because we've
got the culture roaring at us as women telling us
what we should do. Boy, I tell you what. My
life began when I was having four babies back to back.
And I'd look outside my front door and it was
Death Valley days. There was nobody in the neighborhood. Why?
Because they'd all listened quite literally to the siren song
(03:12):
that said, A woman needs a man, like a fish
needs a bicycle. And then they said, I had to
self-actualize outside of my home. And then they said that, uh,
really and truly, that motherhood was an illegal profession. So
that's the kind of stuff I heard when I was
raising my kids. And thank you, Lord, that your voice
is still or sweeter, stronger, better and more kind and
(03:32):
compassionate and loving than any howling done by the sirens
of the culture. But that problem that they were dealing with,
those feminists of the day, they recognized that there are
some real issues out there, but their response, their conclusion,
their way of handling the wrong was utterly wrong. So
now we have a conundrum. There's a real issue out there.
(03:52):
How do we handle it? And then, oh, yeah, there's
women in the church. And then there's another controversy of
another kind. So are we God's afterthought? Are we second
class citizens in his economy? What does it mean to
be a helper? Why are there regulatory guidelines? Rules? More
to the point of what women should not do in
the church? But why is it not so clearly stated
(04:14):
what women can do in the church? And so where
do you come down? Are you egalitarian? Are you complementarian?
You have those 50 cent theological words that have meaning
and importance? So where in the world does a woman
find her place? And that's what we're going to talk
about this hour. In fact, our conversation is going to
emanate from a new book called A place for You
Reframing Christian Womanhood. The author, Kendra Dahl, she's going to
(04:34):
be our guest this hour. She is a Christ follower
and a writer. She has a master's in biblical studies
from Westminster Seminary in California. She's the author of How
to Keep Your Faith. After high school, she is passionate
about helping people live in view of God's mercies, united
to Christ and anchored in the scriptures. Amen, Amen, Amen
to that. She is a wife, she is a mom
and she is our guest for the hour. Kendra, thanks
(04:56):
for the gift of your time. Thank you for this
book and thank you for tackling this topic. It is
not a subject that cowards should take up because no
matter what you do, it's the Abraham Lincoln posture. You're
going to play some of the people all the time,
all of the people some of the time. But you
sure ain't going to please all the people all the
time on this topic. And yet you chose to tackle it.
Tell me why.
S5 (05:17):
You know, uh, as you describe that, I think why
did I try to tackle this topic? Maybe I was crazy. Uh, no.
You know, I am a woman who grew up in
the church but became disillusioned by my faith, um, when
I was in college. And so I left the church.
And then I kind of stumbled my way back in
as a single mom. And especially because I came in
as a single mom, I really struggled to understand my place.
(05:40):
You know, what does the church do with me if
I'm a a woman with a child but without a husband?
And and as I started to ask those questions and
started to press against some of the assumptions that we
were making about where women fit, I wasn't happy, I
wasn't I wasn't satisfied with the answers I was getting,
and and I really wanted to have my mindset formed
by the scriptures and so that as now that daughter
(06:01):
has grown up, she's a senior in high school, about
to launch that first one and another one behind her.
And I've just become really passionate about helping young women
in particular. But all of us who didn't have that foundation,
that theological rooting to help us define who God says
we are and what he has called us to. I
really want to equip them well to to do that.
S1 (06:21):
Amen. And I'm so glad you're doing that, because women
in particular, if we're not grounded in the scriptures, we
are going to be tossed to and fro by both
the culture and sometimes by misguided teaching in the church
as well. So our answer is always what the word
has to say. So thank you for that. Can I
go back to your your, your spiritual journey? And you
say you were raised in a Christian home and you
(06:41):
grew up and as you grew up and went off
to university, you became disillusioned. What caused that disillusionment with
your faith?
S5 (06:50):
Yeah, throughout my middle and high school years, you know,
I really struggled to live up to the standard of
Christianity that was presented to me. You know, I really
internalize this gospel of follow the rules, and I was
really bad at following the rules. And so I kind
of collected shame as I went through those years. And
by the time I went to college, that shame was
so heavy and I really didn't understand the gospel of grace.
(07:12):
And so all I knew was to try to pick
myself up by my bootstraps and try harder, do better.
And then I would continually fall on my face. And
so I was tired of feeling like a disappointment. I
was tired of worshiping a God who just seemed like
this angry dad, always staring down at me, telling me
I wasn't good enough. And so I left the church
to to really find a gospel that was a little
more like follow your dreams or be all you can be. Right. Um,
(07:36):
and turns out that that actually doesn't hold any water either.
And it wasn't until I came back into the church, uh,
you know, as a young adult with my daughter in tow,
and and I couldn't hide my shame anymore. Right. You know,
I say like I used to be able to hide
my shame, but now I pushed her around in a
stroller everybody could see. And yet, when I went to
that church, the pastor said, you know, the gospel isn't
(07:56):
try harder. It's actually try less. And I was angry
because that felt like something that I had never heard before.
But as I leaned in, you know, I went home.
I opened my Bible to the book of Romans, and
I saw this description of people who had exchanged the
truth about God for lies, and that just wrecked me. I,
for the first time, I saw myself in those pages
and realized that there was absolutely nothing that I brought
(08:18):
to Christ, but that Christ did and accomplished all for me,
and that he had paid for every sin that I have,
have committed and will commit in full, and there's nothing
I can do to make up for that. And that
transformed my life. You know, I say, I bought into
all these different gospels along the way, but this one,
Christ Jesus, came into the world to save sinners. That's
(08:39):
the the true gospel. And it's the one that actually
did change my life.
S1 (08:43):
Amen, Amen. Took a little chutzpah to say I'm going
to walk back into church. What drew you? What made
you make that decision?
S5 (08:50):
Yeah. I have the most wonderful, godly parents who just, uh,
they preach what I like to call the family gospel.
They they consistently said, you're welcome here. You can come home.
There's always a place for you at our table in
our home. And and I had other Christian friends who
who had the same thing. Right. These people who just
love me well and were willing to walk with me,
even as I was questioning and rejecting the things that
(09:13):
they had taught me. And so it was really their
love that drew me back into the church.
S1 (09:18):
Wow. Wow. Parents. Take note. Kendra Dahl is with us.
She's the author of the book A place for You
Reframing Christian Womanhood. It's rich theology. I mean, it is
really a wonderful, wonderful book that really it's not what
the culture says. It isn't what tradition says. It's what
the Scripture says. And that's what really should matter. That's
why I constantly say, come on, friends, what we are
(09:39):
are Bereans. We test all things. So everybody's got an opinion.
I want to know what God wants me to know.
And I know that by being in His Word, we're
going to open that word on this topic about women
right after this. Did you know that there are 69
(10:08):
references to fasting in Scripture? Yet most Christians don't really
understand its power. That's why I've chosen the Supernatural Power
of prayer and Fasting by Doctor Ronnie Floyd as this
month's truth tool. Learn how prayer and fasting can bring
profound transformation. As for your copy of The Supernatural Power
of Prayer and Fasting, when you give a gift of
any amount to in the market, call 877. 58 that's
877 Janet 58 or go to in the market with Janet.
(10:34):
Kendra is with us. She is an author. A Christ follower,
loves the word excellent writer. Her new book is called
A place for You Reframing Christian Womanhood. So I'm belaboring
it's not really belaboring. It's fascinating to me, by the way,
but I want to take the time to develop your journey,
because sometimes our experience frames our viewpoint. And so I
want to find out. So here you are as a
(10:56):
single mom. You go back to a church thanks to
loving parents who practice, as you called it. And I
love this, the family gospel. You hear the message of
the gospel of grace. You start to flourish in that church.
Recognizing that God loved you, gave his life for you
while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. And
so you're in this church. You eventually marry, you have babies. Um,
(11:17):
but you're restless. So pick up the story from there, because,
you know, can I just tell you woman to woman
because nobody else is listening? Um, it's so often that
when we have kids, we think we should be totally satisfied.
And that is absolutely true. In truth, sometimes we're utterly overwhelmed.
I had four babies under six, and I couldn't tell
(11:38):
you what day of the week it was most of
the time. And then when you get four cases of
chickenpox at the same time, that's it. You've checked out.
But the reality is you sometimes you think to yourself,
is that all there is? So talk to me about
this idea that is it wrong for you to say, Lord,
I know this is the most important job I'll ever have,
but what if I want to do something else? You
(11:59):
were at that point, too, where you watched your husband
in seminary and you started to get an idea. Talk
to me about that.
S5 (12:05):
Yes, I definitely was asking that question of is it
okay to want more than this? Is it okay to
want to use my brain to use the ways that
God has gifted and called me? And, you know, man,
I just I loved those babies, but those were some
dark days, right? Home with toddlers. And, um, I started,
you know, exploring women who were writing and teaching about
(12:29):
theology and teaching about the Bible. I went to a
women's conference, and I heard women exegete the scriptures and
just stood there and wept because I, I thought, I
want to know my Bible the way she does. I
want to be able to handle the scriptures the way
that she does. Um, but when I went back to
my church and with this zeal for, seeing women equipped
to handle the scriptures that way I was met with
(12:49):
a lot of resistance. And so that began kind of
this wrestle between, you know, just in my heart as
I'm wrestling with the word to say, okay, it looks
to me like God calls women to be disciples who
love him with our minds as well as our hearts.
And it looks to me like there are a myriad ways,
myriad of ways, that women can contribute to the church
(13:10):
and to society, in addition to their wonderful calling in
the home. And so my husband and I really started
to work that out together. Okay. What does it look
like for us to honor the way the Lord has
gifted and wired us, as well as the callings that
he's entrusted to us? There's a very real season that
motherhood requires some intensity. Right? Um. And yet, when I'm
(13:31):
not flourishing under it, it allowed us to ask the question,
you know, is it possible that there are maybe things
that would be life giving and enriching, that complement this season,
that the Lord has placed us in? And so when
we moved to go to seminary, um, you know, the
plan was my husband would go first. You know, I
if if the Lord allowed, we would be. I would
(13:52):
hope to follow. But, you know, I was probably going
to have to homeschool. We're in a new place. We
don't know what that's going to look like. And and
the Lord just very sweetly provided he provided a school
for our children, he provided the supportive environment, the financial help,
and allowed me to go to school as well. And
and through that process that continued to just fill out
this conviction I have that women are called to be theologians, too,
(14:14):
that women are called to contribute in many ways across
many seasons. And, um, and that it's okay for us
to pursue the equipping that's required for what the Lord
has called us to. And it's okay to, uh, be
multifaceted humans who are not just stuck in one sphere,
but actually can, uh, you know, embrace the diversity of
(14:35):
life that the Lord has set before us.
S1 (14:37):
Yeah. Now. So let me dig in. You want to
go to seminary? Okay. That's not the same as saying
I'm going to take a career Bible study. I'm going
to go to seminary. So when you were praying about this,
what did you envision the Lord calling you to do
that made you have to walk through seminary to get
where he was calling you?
S5 (14:57):
Yeah, I was doing a lot of writing and teaching already,
and and what I noticed is that seminary was definitely
optional for women who were serving in ministry spaces. And
that's not to disparage women who are faithfully serving in
those spaces. I have a good friend who talks about
how she's theologically homeschooled, and I love that. Right. Uh,
we can be homeschooled in seminary trained, right? Um, but
(15:19):
for me, I just really valued that formal education to
say if I'm going to be speaking into women's lives,
if I'm going to be handling the scriptures, you don't
have to take to heart what James Warren said. You know,
those who teach should hold it with trepidation, right? I
want to have the, uh, the background and the foundation
to be able to do that. Well. Um, so that
that's really what drove me into seminary was to say,
(15:41):
I think we need to call women to the standard
of credibility and training that we often hold men to,
but not women. Um, and, and I know that there's
a lot that I don't know. And I wanted to
have some intentional time to work through my convictions.
S1 (15:55):
Wow. So you really wanted to be very prepared for
whatever God was calling you to. And he had already
given you some of the desires of your heart, which
was the writing and the teaching. So you write in
the book about a day in which you were in
the position of being the new women's discipleship director, and
women poured in by the tens and 20s and hundreds
(16:15):
into the room. And you text your husband that you
wanted to hide in the bathroom, all of this that
you had done and you wanted to check out. But
he gave you two Latin words that I want our
audience to hear, remember, and apply. What were those two
words and what did they mean?
S5 (16:30):
Yes, the two words were quorum Dale. And that means
before God's face, and I love. I learned that from R.C. Sproul.
He talks about to live quorum Dale is to is
to truly live your whole life oriented before the face
of God. And that's how our family when when I
describe what I mean by the word courage, that's what
I mean. Courage is not being, uh, that you're not afraid.
(16:51):
It's that you fear God. You don't fear, man, that
you live before God's face not for the approval of others. And, uh,
that is just really the foundation of the ministry. I
feel like the Lord has called me to to call
women into conviction. Into courage.
S1 (17:04):
Yeah. And in fact, you divide the book up into
two parts. Just that conviction. Courage. Tell me why.
S5 (17:11):
Yeah, I love a friend of mine. Always would talk
about how we need to know our own minds. And
this is something that I've become passionate about as a
mom of daughters. And really, I realized, you know, in hindsight,
that my dad raised me this way. We need to
be women who know what we believe and why we
believe it, and then to be equipped to actually live
it out. Yeah. So that's where conviction and courage really
(17:31):
become the pillars that I think help help us grow
as women who are confident in God's Word.
S1 (17:36):
Excellent. Now, friends, you got an overview of what the
book is like. So she does divide the book up
into those two sections, uh, Conviction and courage. Rich theology
and good applied Christianity as well. So when we come back,
not a book review, I want to give you a
sense of what the book is about so that you'll
be interested enough, much more than interested, deeply curious enough
(17:57):
to find out exactly what does the God say? What
does God say about our value as women back after this?
Kendra Dahl is with us. She has written the book
A place for You Reframing Christian Womanhood. And there's so
(18:19):
many questions out there, I think this book is timely,
as prescient, and it's biblical most important at all. This
is a woman who loves God's Word. After all, she
went to seminary. She doesn't take a Bible study class.
She went to seminary. She got a master's in biblical
studies from Westminster Seminary in California. She wanted to know
what she believed and why she believed it, which happens
to be the title of a book by Doctor Paul
(18:40):
Little that said exactly the same thing. We just don't
want to believe it. We want to know what we
believe and why we believe it. How else can we
contend for the faith, as it says in the book
of Jude? So in the first half of the book,
under conviction, you talk about your background, but then you
also talk about being wanted, storied and commissioned. You take
three words that are important. Let me just talk about
being the value of a woman again. You know, don't
(19:03):
let the world teach you theology. So we sorry, but
we live in a culture right now that can't even
define what it means to be a woman. Push that
chaos aside for a minute, and let's just go biblically.
How do we eradicate the idea, the lies of the enemy?
More to the point, that says that somehow we're an afterthought,
that Adam was made first, that Eve was responsible for
(19:23):
eating the fruit. Therefore, we're the ones that suffer in childbirth.
ET cetera, et cetera. ET cetera. ET cetera. How do
we find value in that? Because if you listen to
the roar of the culture today, um, it's a misogynistic book.
We shouldn't be reading it. And there's very difficult ways
for you to even begin to think you have value
in that book. So how do we find my value?
How do we find our value in the Word of God?
S5 (19:46):
Yeah. You know, this is why I use that word reframing,
because I think that we have, uh, we've been trained
to come to the biblical text with sort of our
own assumptions, and especially when it comes to the first
few chapters of Genesis, you know, we have been taught
that those teach us so much about what it means
to be a man and a woman, and how that
means we're supposed to live like that. These become these normative, uh,
(20:08):
you know, symbols for all men and all women who
go from the garden. And yet, I think that we
have to come to the text, letting it speak for itself.
We have to say, what does the why? Why did
the biblical author write it this way? Why did he
put it here? Why is this how this biblical story starts?
And if we believe that the whole story, that the
Bible is all one story that culminates in Christ, then
(20:29):
we need to see not just the foundation of humanity
in Genesis one through three, but the foundation of redemptive history.
And so I think that that's, you know, step one,
we have to go to the text and say, okay,
what is God showing us about his image bearers, these
men and women, male and female, he created them. Okay.
We know that it does define us as male and
female image bearers. But but what is the implication of
(20:52):
their interaction in the garden of the created order of,
of what happens in the fall and how God responds?
And I think what we'll find there is actually that
it has a lot more to do with Jesus than
with us, that when God creates Adam first, he's setting
him up as a representative of the human race because
he can try to achieve eternal life for us. And
so what happens? The climax of the fall is not
(21:14):
Eve eating the fruit, it's actually Adam. Because when Adam falls,
we all fell with him. Romans five tells us, uh,
but that's such good news that God gave us a
representative for the human race, because it means that when
Christ comes, he can represent us, that in him we
can find salvation. So in Adam we are all dead
to sin, but in Christ we can be made alive
to righteousness. And so that really is what is being
(21:37):
established in this created or creation narrative. When you've got
this created order and you're you're showing Adam as sort
of the the predominant character in the text. It's not
because men are more important than women, but it's actually
because this is the foundation of a very important story
that will define all of our lives. And so I
think the same is true when we look at the
(21:58):
fall and how God interacts with Adam and Eve. You know,
we're so prone to see the way God confronts with judgment,
which he does, because sin is devastating and it has
a huge impact on all of humanity. And yet God
doesn't just destroy them. You know, he could he would
be totally just to just, like, wipe out his image bearers.
You failed. I told you, you're going to die. If
you did that, you did it. You're out of here.
S1 (22:19):
Right, right, right.
S5 (22:20):
And instead, he. He comes with such mercy. And I
think that communicates the value of his image bearers that
they are worth saving the man and the woman. They
have failed in their task. And yet God, in his kindness,
meets them with mercy and promises redemption and restoration. So
I think that really those are the key things that
we need to see in that Genesis narrative, and that
(22:42):
those are going to really shape how we interpret the
value of men and women and the ways that we
interact with each other going forward.
S1 (22:48):
Yeah, that's so good. Um, I was thinking when you
were talking to the scripture, it's Eve who takes the
bite than she gives it to her husband. But when
we read about the first and second Adam, it's not
Eve they're talking about. I mean, you could take the
Chaucer esque idea of mankind being all humankind, and I
have no problem with that. But by man came death.
The Scripture tells us. So that's very interesting. That takes
(23:10):
us then to this word complementarian. Now that, you know,
a lot of people are not using that in everyday parlance,
it's certainly a strong and important theological word. You define it,
I think, beautifully in the book. So define for those
listening right now, what do we mean when we talk
about being complementarian in this relationship between men and women
according to Scripture?
S5 (23:30):
Yeah, I think people do define the word differently, and
that is why I define it in the book to.
To be clear, this is how I use the word
complementarian because I think it is very useful word. It's
it's to say that God created men and women equal
in dignity and value, but with distinct roles. And in
particularly in the church and in the home. So, uh, we,
we hold to equality, but also differentiation that I think is, um,
(23:54):
is important to note.
S1 (23:56):
And I love the fact that you and I'm so
glad you underscore this. My challenge is I think it's
imperative that, particularly in these latter days, we learn to
think more critically. And I love the idea that you
talk about holding ideas in tension. So two things can
be true at the same time, right? And this is
exactly the picture of complementarianism that we are equal, but
we are deeply, significantly different in the roles that we play.
(24:18):
They complement one another, but they're unique. But there's no
question of equality here, which I think is paramount. And
I think the world has failed to hear that. Tell
me a little bit more of your thoughts about that, Kendra,
when we get back. The book is called A place
for You Reframing Christian Womanhood, written by Kendra Dahl, who
is a Christ follower and a writer. She has written
the book How to Keep Your Faith After High School.
(24:39):
She's passionate about helping people live within the parameters of
God's mercy, and to be united in him through his
written word. More with Kendra right after this. Anyone can
(25:16):
read the news every day on in the market. We're
committed to telling the news as seen through the lens
of Scripture. As Christians, we must be informed about what's
going on in the world and respond appropriately. When you
become a partial partner, you ensure that we continue here
on your station, equipping the church to discuss current events,
using the Bible as our solid foundation, why not become
a partial partner today? Call 877 Janet 58 or go
(25:37):
online to in the market with Janet Parshall. Kendra dial
is with us. She is a Christ follower and a writer.
She has a master's in biblical Studies from Westminster Seminary
in California. She's the author of How to Keep Your Faith.
After high school, she's passionate about helping people live in
view of God's mercies united to Christ, anchored in the scriptures.
(25:58):
She's a wife, she's a mom, and she's written a
great book called A place for You Reframing Christian Womanhood.
And it's really wonderfully timed, as this ongoing argument is
out there about complementarian and egalitarian. So let me appeal
to your greater education and ask you to break down
for us. You just defined complementarian, which I think is great.
(26:19):
You said, and I'm reading right from the book. Uh,
the term means that while both males and females are
of equal value in God's creation, they have different roles
to fulfill equal value. Two important words in God's creation.
How is that different from being an egalitarian?
S5 (26:37):
Yes, with the egalitarian perspective, typically they're going to say
there there is no distinction in the roles that we're
able to fulfill as men and women. And so where
in the complementarian world we're going to restrict the roles
of the ordained office of pastor elder to only qualified men,
and to say that men are married men are the
heads of their households where Egalitarians aren't going to make
(26:59):
those distinctions, they're going to point to just an equality
of the sexes in all spheres of life.
S1 (27:05):
Right. And I'm asking you a leading question from your
vantage point. Having studied the scriptures, do you see any
legitimacy to the egalitarian position, or do you think Scripture
supports the complementarian position?
S5 (27:17):
You know, I am a convicted complementarian. I you know,
I tried I tried not to I tried not to be. Uh,
but as I studied the text, I just wasn't persuaded.
I'm persuaded that the Complementarian view aligns with the biblical text,
and that those restrictions for the church and this call
to husbands to be heads of their households, just really
do reflect the, um, the way headship is set up
(27:40):
throughout Scripture. But I do think that it can be misapplied.
And I do think that there are extreme cases where
we're over defining what that headship looks like, where we're
over restricting the ways that women can contribute. And I
certainly think that this can be, you know, abused in
a lot of spaces as well.
S1 (27:55):
I concur, and I think that's why your book is important,
because what you do is, is you're a wonderful writer,
very gifted writer.
S5 (28:01):
But thank you.
S1 (28:02):
Your opinion takes second place to what the Word of
God has to say. And I think that has to
be paramount for us as believers that you can say,
this is what the scriptures teach, but your opinion doesn't
matter in light of what the truth of Scripture teaches us.
And that's why I think this is so good, because
what you're saying is, I don't think the egalitarian position
can be supported scripturally, but you have to make sure
(28:23):
that that complementarian position, uh, equal value, different roles isn't
used as a cudgel, and it often is to keep
women in their place and be quiet. And. ET cetera.
ET cetera. So that's why I think you started out
wisely by talking about understanding our value as women. You know,
I look at it as a question of God's sovereignty.
And I think that's so much of the trans issue
(28:44):
right now is really, at its core, the question of
God's sovereignty. In his sovereignty. He chose the head of
the color of my hair, the color of my eyes,
and whether I would come into this world as a
man or a woman, who am I to question that?
What is man that thou art mindful of him? So
this is a question of his sovereignty being shown in
the way I made. He could have made me a man.
He chose to make me a woman. Well, thank you God.
(29:07):
Now let me discover what it is you want me
to do as a woman. Never. Second class, never short shrift,
but absolutely understanding I have value in his world. Now
that takes me to your talking in the second part
of the book about having courage. And one of them is,
is this idea of being called a weaker vessel? I
know that's like nails on a blackboard to some women
out there who don't understand who they are in light
(29:29):
of God's mercy and his love and his plan. But
you pose a very interesting question. You said, what if
weaker isn't worse? What if God actually has a good
use for this apparently weaker sex? That is an intriguing question.
Talk to me about it.
S5 (29:45):
Yeah. You know, I think that that word weaker, it
comes from first Peter three, right? Where Peter says, husbands
live with your wives in an understanding way. Honor her
as a weaker vessel. And that word weaker has been
interpreted so many different ways to say women are morally
inferior to men. They're intellectually inferior to men. They're emotionally
weaker than men. Right. Um, and we've, you know, if
(30:06):
you look through the history, you think this is why
women weren't permitted to vote or you know, how, uh,
how these different practices were justified across the decades. And yet,
if you really think about how women are weaker and
even the context of Peter, he's protecting these women. He's saying,
you know, husbands don't use your physical strength to overpower
(30:27):
your physically weaker wife. I mean, that's something that we
can support in our embodied differences that yes, there's a
bell curve, right? With outliers on either side. But in general,
most men are physically stronger than most women. And so
when Peter is referring to this weaker vessel, that's what
he has in mind. Women are weaker than men. And
as a result, that puts them in this vulnerable, vulnerable
(30:49):
position throughout the ages because they, uh, they could be
overpowered by the men in their life and they're, um,
in danger in these relationships. If the men don't choose
to temper their strength at a, at especially at a
time in history where men had absolute power in society
and in their households, you know, they held the power
of life and death over their wives. And so here
(31:11):
Peter is calling them to something that would be very countercultural.
S1 (31:14):
Exactly. So in this case, it's the plain thing being
the plain thing. It's not indicating that women don't have
the same IQ, or they don't have the same academic
acumen as men. There's a physicality. Is this not part
of the fearfully wonderfully made equal.
S5 (31:28):
But.
S1 (31:28):
Distinct.
S5 (31:29):
Mhm. Important, yes I think I think that's so important. And,
and I think that there's something to leverage there. Right.
As the weaker vessel. Think about the places that women
can go because we're not such an intimidating presence. And
I think there's so much history that testifies to ways
that women have actually been able to leverage that weakness
to advocate then for the poor and oppressed in our midst.
S1 (31:49):
I'm glad you brought up history. Teach us about Jehosheba.
S5 (31:53):
Oh, I love Jehosheba, right. She's just this, like, secret
character tucked into the Old Testament where you have the
two warring tribes or the, you know, the warring kingdoms,
the line of David and the the unfaithful line of
Israel and and Queen Athaliah seizes the throne and is
going to destroy all of David's descendants. And this would
(32:14):
be devastating, right? Because David is who the promised Redeemer
was supposed to come through. And so you're on the
edge of your seat wondering, is this it is God's
plan over. Is has it finally been defeated? And yet
there's this girl named Jehosheba. And it says that she
takes her her brother, the the descendant of David, and
she hides him away. And, um. And then the priest
(32:37):
and Jehosheba, they they hide the king away until he's
able to arise and take the throne as he gets
a little bit older. Um, and I just love that
because she's just this invisible character. You know, it's like
we don't have to kill off the daughters. Just the sons.
But actually, it's the daughter who's going to preserve the son.
Isn't that just the best?
S1 (32:55):
And it's her weakness in that she's quiet. She's working
in the shadows. She doesn't have to be main stage.
And yet she keeps the continuity of the messianic line.
S5 (33:05):
Yes, yes. And I bring this up in my book.
But I just love the way you know. But the
word but is so often how the scriptures use God's
interruption of grace. And that's how Jehosheba story is set up.
But jehosheba, you know, she is God's agent of grace
in the narrative. And I just think that's so beautiful.
S1 (33:23):
I do too. Thank you for bringing. That's why I
say I love the rich theology of the book. Kendra.
So thank you for that. I have been really doing
a study on quiet lately, and boy are there a
lot of verses about that in Scripture. In fact, there's
one in Ruth that says, sit still, my daughter. And
I've been thinking about that one quite a bit, by
(33:44):
the way. But you talk about quiet. There is a
richness in quietude. We live in a noisy culture. There's
a woman sitting behind a microphone. But the reality is
I'm to be still and know that he is God.
But this is for women, I think, particularly important. We are,
in fact, you know, all the social science data out
there that women speak more than men do. In fact, somebody, uh,
(34:05):
bless their heart, they had nothing better to do. Counted
how many words a woman says per day versus a man.
And the number was like three times more than a man.
We just tend to be verbal. So the the choice
to be quiet, I think, is volitional for women. But
it's important, I think, in helping us grow, mature and
to grow and mature in him. Talk to me about this.
S5 (34:27):
Yes. You know, this is an area that I think
is true for both men and women. You know, God
calls us to the wise stewardship of words. And yet
there are these specific places in Scripture that tell women
to be quiet and that can, you know, not sit
with you very well. Right. If you think about it like, well, why?
Why do women have to be quiet and, and so
one thing that I try to work through in the
book is to look at the context of those passages
(34:48):
and to see that God isn't silencing women, but actually
that in those in those places, in Scripture, he's inviting
women into the learning environments. He's inviting them to come
in as students, to come in as disciples and to
learn quietly alongside the men. And so that is actually,
you know, it's an inverse of how we often think
about it. And yet, like you said, there is this temptation,
(35:10):
especially as women hearing from the culture that's inviting us
to be loud, you know, to say your truth and
to throw off people who would try to silence you.
And I think the Bible shows us this path of
wisdom that comes from a well-chosen word, from being quick
to hear and slow to speak, and that as women,
as we learn to steward our voices well, we can
(35:31):
actually become a model within the church at large of
what it looks like to to not have to be
the loudest person in the room. And then and then
that becomes a way to leverage our voices at the
right time for the ways that God has called us
to speak in faithfulness.
S1 (35:45):
Yeah. Again, quiet. Just studying that word in Scripture in
quiet and confidence shall be your strength. I mean, that's
pretty amazing. And this one, which got me teary eyed
the very first time I read it. The incorruptible beauty
of a gentle and quiet spirit is precious in the
sight of the Lord. Wow. My being quiet is something
that can be viewed as being precious. That doesn't mean.
(36:06):
And maybe here again, this is the idea's intention that
you wrote about before. Quiet doesn't mean silence, does it?
Talk to me about that.
S5 (36:14):
Yeah, I think quiet really just defines a posture, right?
It's this posture of humility before the Lord and before others.
a willingness to say, I want to listen, I want
to understand, and I want to only speak if it's
going to be speaking God's truth with grace and kindness
and mercy. You know, and I think that requires discernment.
S1 (36:33):
Yeah. And 100%, it's an excellent book, Kendra. It's called
A place for You Reframing Christian Womanhood. Kendra Dahl is
our guest. She's the writer, by the way. I have
a link to her website just go to In the
Market with Janet Parshall under the summation of the two
hours we do every day. There's a red box. It
says program details and audio. Click that on takes you
(36:54):
over the information page. You're going to see a picture
of Kendra's beautiful face, a link to her website and
on the right hand side, a place for you. Reframing
Christian womanhood. Back with Kendra right after this. A place
(37:18):
for you. reframing Christian womanhood? It is the new book
by Kendra Dahl, who loves to write. Does it exquisitely,
by the way, has a master's in biblical studies, is
the author of How to Keep Your Faith After High School,
but really and truly wanted to be so grounded when
she taught and writes that she wanted to take the
time to go to seminary and really understand the word
and how to teach it. And she did that. Got
(37:40):
a master's in biblical studies, and it shows loud and
clear in her writing and in her speaking as well.
So in deference to time, let me get to some
concluding thoughts on this, because there's oh so much in
the book that you ask us to examine, but you
really say that this is the big question at the end.
And this is really kind of started how you started
the book and your personal journey and how you conclude
(38:01):
the book as well. What is the place for the women?
This is really what we've been wanting to know all along.
And so you write that we've considered through your book
our Value and our identity what the Bible teaches about
God's female image bearers. And we've talked a lot about
our functions, what we uniquely offer with our bodies, words
and relationship, what it means to believe that there is
a place for our vulnerability, our voices, our limitations. But
(38:23):
where do we do these things? What spaces were we
meant to occupy? Huge question. How do you answer that?
S5 (38:32):
Yeah, let's just clear it up for everybody in these
few minutes. Right, right. Oh, yes. You know, one, I
think the main thing that I want to point people
back to is this idea of a primary calling. And
our primary calling is that of Christian. That the way
God shapes our identity, the way that he calls us
as male and female image bearers who have been called
(38:55):
into his son is as Christian. And that that can
really reframe how we think about vocation, where we are
first and foremost just called to love God with our heart, soul,
mind and strength and to love our neighbors. And so
that looks differently based on the season of life that
we're in, based on the families that were placed in
or the jobs that we have, based on how old
(39:15):
we are, how old our kids are based on, you know,
our experiences and our gifts and and our geographic location
and that there's just so much freedom and diversity for
the way that women can live out this vocation as
the Christians that God has called them to be. Yeah.
That doesn't mean, you know, I think that's obviously people
want to know. Okay, but what about in the church? Right.
That's where we tend to restrict women. Or what about
(39:37):
in the home? Is it okay for women to work
outside the home if they have children and things like that? And,
and you know, here too, I think there's so much freedom.
We tend to focus on restriction, um, based on, you know,
we want to say, okay, we're going to draw these
lines and we're going to keep women out. And, and
how I see those restrictions and the complementarian space, and
as I understand Scripture, is to say that the ordained
(39:59):
office of Pastor Elder is is for qualified men, not
all men indiscriminately, but qualified men. And that women are
that that's an opportunity that's not available to women. So
what can women do in the church? Anything else? You know,
I think there's the yes, there's just there's so many
ways that we exist in the church as as aunties,
as grandmas, as mothers, as sisters, as daughters, that we
(40:21):
just like a family. Everybody kind of has a part
to play. So it is in the family of God.
And I think that we spend too much time thinking
about women or not, what they're not allowed to do.
Instead of looking around and saying, there's work to do, everybody.
You know, pick pick up a task and let's get
to it. Um, and that's I think there's just so
much more freedom. Um, and it's the same when we
think about our domestic callings. You know, I think there's
(40:43):
wisdom to see the limitation of our seasons. For me,
it was a gift that God allowed me to be
home with my children for a season when they were
young and and when they went back to school, I
was able to, uh, start going to seminary. And now
I work full time and have teenagers and feel like
a crazy person all the time. The reality is, we
are limited. And because of those limitations of our season,
(41:04):
there's wisdom in saying, what are the spheres God is
calling me to focus on right now. But again, that's
not about restriction. It's about being wise and being faithful
to where God has placed us.
S1 (41:15):
Such wisdom. So two things I want to say back
that I heard you say. Number one, I think that
what you do comes in a distant second to who
you are in him. I think once we know that
Christ is our all that acts. 17 In him we
live and move and have our being. If he defines us,
if our if if we can't wait to talk to
(41:37):
him in the morning, we talk to him all day long.
We love being in his word. What role we play
on the horizontal level again pales in comparison to having
this deep, rich connection on the vertical level to the
Son of God who knows us intimately, then the whole.
For me personally, in my journey, the role I played
became not as significant as who I was in him.
(41:59):
It was that that question of being rather than doing,
which I think a lot of women in particular struggle with.
The other thing you said that I think is so paramount,
and it was my experience as well, is that women,
I think, much more than men. Here's a uniqueness. We
tend to live our lives in seasons. There was the
early married state. There was the baby stage. There were
the kids are growing up, and now you've got some
latitude to do things outside of the home stage. There's
(42:20):
raising the adult kids where you can't ground them anymore.
And it was much easier now, looking back to potty
train them than to deal with the 32 year old
that really might be walking astray at this moment. Right.
All of those things that you have in your life.
Men don't tend to have the seasonal aspect as much
as women do. And I would say to my daughters,
just live out the richness of this season. It is always,
(42:42):
I found a preparation for the next season that he'll
call you to, and the next season might not look
like the one you're in right now. But if you're
absolutely dead center in the nature and the nurture and
the preciousness of his will, don't be gasping for what
the next season holds. It'll come in due time. Just
live out the richness of the season that he has
you call right now. And so therefore titles definition. And
(43:03):
I live in a town where the hand out titles
like M&Ms. And that's a big deal in this town
in Washington. But the reality is, whatever your title is
for that season, step into it boldly. This is the
courage and the conviction to say, God, this is where
you have me. Now, when you were raising three kids
back to back. It was not the same as where
you are right now in life, and it opens doors
and opportunities and so that that where do I fit?
(43:25):
What's my place? My place is with him first, last
and always where he would have me serve. After that
is a distant second. Was that your experience too?
S5 (43:35):
It is, yes. And you know, I would want to add,
even in those seasons, for women who are single, that
you're not waiting to arrive at peak womanhood, but actually
that that is a rich and sweet season that God
has called you to and that you can steward faithfully
as well.
S1 (43:49):
Yeah, absolutely. Kendra, the book is wonderful. I should shout
out for the home team. It is published by Moody,
so check it out. It's called A place for you,
and it really is one of these important books where
if you struggled. Oh, I just there's no place for
me in the church. I don't know where God wants me.
This kind of theology just kind of takes everything and
takes it out of the fuzzy world and puts it
(44:09):
in 2020 clarity. And that's exactly the kind of writing
that Kendra does. So check it out. It's on my
information page. Again, it's called a place for You Reframing
Christian Womanhood. I also have a link to Kendra's website.
You can tell that she is a superb teacher and
a great writer, and understands her Bible inside out and
upside down. So check it out. It's at in the
Market with Janet parshall.org. Click on that red box that
(44:33):
says Program Details and Audio. It will take you to
the information page when you get there. It's all the
information you need. My heartfelt thanks again to Kendra Dale
for an excellent and timely book that really helps us
understand who we are as women, fearfully and wonderfully made,
equal and yet distinct from our male counterparts. So check
it out and maybe it'll clear up some things in
(44:53):
your life. If you've been struggling in this area, don't
forget we're listener supported radio. We got a truth tool
and at the end of every month I put it
away and we start a brand new truth tool. So
check your calendar and prayerfully consider supporting this program so
we can have more conversations like the one we just
did with Kendra. Thanks, friends. We'll see you next time
on In the Market with Janet Parshall.
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