Hour 1: Clarity On The End Times

In a field often clouded by complexity and sensationalism, keeping track of what the Bible says about the end times can be challenging even for seasoned believers. Jeff Kinley joins us to discuss his newest book, Answering Tough Questions About the End Times. He will answer some of the most pressing questions about the last days and teach us why what is coming matters.

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Episode Transcript

S1 (00:00):
Hi friend, thanks so much for downloading this broadcast and
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(00:20):
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(00:40):
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(01:25):
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And now please enjoy the broadcast.

S2 (01:31):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.

S3 (01:32):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.

S4 (01:35):
Americans worshiping government over God.

S5 (01:37):
Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years.

S6 (01:41):
The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.

S5 (01:58):
Hi, friends.

S1 (01:59):
Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. Sit down,
make yourself comfortable. We're going to talk about the things
that are going to come and what's going to happen
in the future. Well, it matters. We are going to
talk about Bible prophecy. What is it about this topic?
I keep saying it's like Goldilocks porridge for so many people.
It's too hot a topic. So some churches just sidestep it,
which is like taking a giant knife and cutting out

(02:21):
huge proportions of Scripture. If you're not going to talk
about prophecy, well, then you've got the Thomas Jefferson approach
to Scripture. You're going to cut out the parts that
you have a problem with and just ignore them completely,
or it's too cold for you because you think it
has no relevance today. So why waste my time? And
then you get people who love the whole truth and
nothing but the truth, because it was God's word. The

(02:42):
Bible doesn't contain God's Word. It is God's Word. And
when you think about prophecy, the Bible is saturated with prophecy.
And I have. If you haven't read it, let me
just give you the little heads up so far batting
a thousand. Okay, so if what God has prophesied in
the past has been fulfilled, jot and tittle. What are
we in our arrogant state as a fallen human being,

(03:03):
thinking that somehow God is going to mess it up
when it comes to future prophecy. So we need to
roll up our sleeves. Yes, but Janet, I don't know
what's allegory. I don't know what I take literally, I
can't understand it. I mean, really seven bulls? What is that? Scrolls.
I don't get that beast with multiple heads. Come on,
I could care less. Well, you should care because our
father cared. Why would he? If he's only going to
give us 66 letters? And there could have been 66

(03:24):
million letters, and he gave us 66. But that's okay,
because we have an eternity. So I don't know about you.
I can't wait to sign up and be in God's class,
and he can teach me the rest of the story.
Thank you, Paul Harvey, because there's going to be oh,
so much more. We got a hint of that in Scripture,
by the way. Remember we were told there was oh,
so much more, but our little pipsqueak minds probably couldn't
handle it anyway. But we're supposed to know what's happening.

(03:45):
A so we'll be prepared B so we can be
joyously anticipating, and c we can tell others that what's
going to happen at the end shouldn't scare us. It
should make our hearts beat a little bit faster because
the king is coming again and he is going to
be ruling on the earth. Take every flawed political issue

(04:05):
you've got and hey, I'm coming to you from Washington.
I could give you just tons of info in that area,
but the king who is perfect is going to be ruling.
And I don't know about you, but that's enough to
get me excited. But truth be told, we got a
lot of questions, so I praise God that he has
over the decades, raised up great men who know the word,
who have this unbelievably anointed ability to teach about the

(04:25):
end times and prophecy with such clarity, confidence, and compassion.
They make us want to learn more. Jeff Kinley is
just one of those kinds of people, by the way.
He's authored over 40 books and speaks across the U.S.
he equips Christians to discern the times just like the
men of the Tribe of Issachar. I love this and
live with confidence. His podcast, The Prophecy Pros Podcast, and

(04:47):
the Vintage Truth Podcast. Don't you love that name? Our
heard and viewed in more than 180 countries. His weekly
his channel TV show, The Jeff Kinley Live Show and
the King Is Coming are devoted to Bible prophecy. And
by the way, his latest book is called Answering Tough
Questions about the End Times 100 Q and A's about
Bible prophecy. And Jeff has written this with Todd Hampson,

(05:09):
who has been on the program before as well. Todd
does an absolutely fabulous job not only of teaching prophecy,
but his illustrations are through the roof. They're just an
excellent addition whenever you're talking about end times. But I
couldn't wait to talk about this one, because the questions
addressed in this book are the kinds of questions when
I open the phone lines that we get over and
over and over again. So this is an opportunity for

(05:30):
you to get a real primer in end times if
you don't know where to start, because you're just afraid
to even get to the end of the book and
not step into revelation, this is a fabulous place to start.
Because don't tell anybody. Just between you and me, that
whole stuff about prophecy and end times. It starts in
the Old Testament. So you might want to get this book.
Jeff is this close to getting his doctorate. And so
I have to ask you, sir, as you finish up,

(05:52):
what are you going to do your dissertation on?

S7 (05:54):
Well, thank you for asking. Yeah, the dissertation is all
about Israel and replacement theology. And what's the distinction between
Israel and the church? And so very excited. I'm in
the thick of it right now. So it's a work
in progress.

S1 (06:08):
I cannot please, please, please get it published, not just
turn it in and get it reviewed by the board.
But I can't wait to read it and just let
me linger here a minute, because this really ties in,
I think, to prophecy. It's as though God, somehow between
Malachi and Matthew, changes his mind and that Israel is
no longer Israel in the New Testament. And in this
gap he changes it, and now it becomes the church capital.

(06:29):
C where does that come from?

S7 (06:32):
Yeah, it basically comes comes from the fact it comes
from two places. Number one, just from a biblical interpretive
standpoint where people tend to interpret the Bible literally until
they get to Israel in prophecy and suddenly they change their, uh,
it's like changing blinkers without, uh, in the middle of
the stream. And so they immediately begin to spiritualize the Bible.

(06:53):
And all of revelation is symbolic. And then secondly, it comes,
I think, from history, when Israel was scattered in 70 A.D.
and no longer was officially was a nation again. For
the next several hundred years, the church kind of looked
around and said, wait a minute, there's a lot of
prophecies about Israel, but there's no Israel. So, well, I
guess we're the Israel then. And so that kind of
lingered on until guess what? The super sign of the

(07:14):
last days happened in 1948, and nobody saw this coming.
Here comes Israel and they're a nation again. All of
a sudden, all those prophecies are back on the table.

S1 (07:24):
Yeah. Isn't that something? Boy, I tell you, I'm jealous
of people who are old enough to know what was
happening in 1948. I mean, I was born after Israel
became a state. But I have to tell you, what
was that like for a quickened, spirit filled, Bible believing
Christian to watch the U.N. recognize Israel as a state
and the U.S. be the first nation that put their
imprimatur of approval on that. I mean, absolutely stunning. But

(07:46):
it goes to the bigger picture, does it not, Jeff?
Which is if you see that as the fulfillment of prophecy,
then this isn't like eating at a country buffet restaurant
where you get to pick and choose what prophecies you like.
Why would you stop and then say all the prophecies
dealing with Israel somehow are not relevant anymore?

S7 (08:01):
Yeah, it comes with a huge chain of prophecies that
are inexorably linked to the prophecy of Israel becoming a
nation again. And the thing is, is if if that
is not a spiritualized prophecy, if it was fulfilled literally, then, oh,
we've got a lot of prophecies that are going to
be fulfilled literally as well. And so it really sets
us up for the last days. And, you know, people

(08:22):
have said, listen, Israel is kind of like the time
clock of the last days. Watch Israel, you'll find out
what's going to happen.

S1 (08:27):
Yeah. You know, I say that all the time. You
go through life with the Bible in one hand, the
newspaper in the other, and you never take your eyes
off that piece of real estate. It is the northern
star for prophecy. So what a great way to start this.
By the way, I should tell everyone that you are
a candidate for this doctorate at Liberty University. Go flames!
So when you finally get all done, put it in
a book, please. I can't wait to talk to you

(08:49):
about this. We'll do an expansive conversation on this gap
of belief and the importance of prophecy. When we come back, though,
let's start at the beginning. I talked about prophecy being
in the Old Testament, and that ties in. It's not
just the book of Revelation. There is a continuum in
God's Word from Genesis all the way to revelation. And
one of the best teachers out there is the gentleman

(09:09):
we get to spend the hour with, Jeff Kinley. His
newest book, tough Answering Tough Questions about the End times
100 Q and A's about Bible prophecy back after this.

(09:35):
When the storms of life hit with hurricane force, how
do you respond? This month's truth tool is the Mediterranean
Sea Rules, where Robert Morgan writes how God will redeem
our tragedies for his purposes. Don't just survive the storms.
Learn to serve God in the midst of them. As
for your copy of the Mediterranean Sea Rules, when you
give a gift of any amount in the market, call
877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58. Or go to

(09:56):
in the market with Janet Parshall. Recognize Bible prophecy. Teacher
Jeff Kinley is with us, former pastor, best selling author.
His newest book, answering tough questions about the end Times
100 Q and A's about Bible prophecy. And yes, he
co-wrote it with Todd Hampson, who is a contributor to
this as well, and the podcast as well, which is fabulous. So, Jeff,

(10:20):
we're talking to folks all across the country, from Guam
to the Cayman Islands. I never start with the presupposition
that everybody is at the same place in their spiritual journey.
So I want us all to be on the same page, literally.
So when we talk about prophecy, what does that mean biblically?

S7 (10:34):
Yeah. So Bible prophecy is basically history written in advance.
It's God telling his people this is what's going to happen. Uh,
sometimes they saw the prophecies fulfilled in their own lifetime.
And other times the Old Testament prophets would simply make
a prophecy. They had no idea when it was going
to be fulfilled. And yet some of these prophecies are
hundreds and perhaps thousands of years waiting for fulfillment. And yet,

(10:58):
God always gives us a heads up on history. He
always wants us to know what's coming.

S1 (11:03):
Why? Why does God want us to know?

S7 (11:07):
I think a couple of things. I think, number one,
God always bases what he does in his own character.
I think two, two attributes of God that we must
rest in as believers is number one, God is a
sovereign God. Uh, history is his story. He is the
one who is scripting and pre-scripting all that's going to
happen in the last days. And I think the second

(11:27):
attribute of God is that he is faithful. Three times
in the book of revelation, Jesus is called faithful. And
I think that tells us that God is a promise keeper.
He's not just a promise maker, he's a promise keeper.
He's not giving us these prophecies to deceive us, but
to actually prepare us and to let us be in
the know so that we won't be scared. And and

(11:48):
as you mentioned earlier, just perplexed by all of the
white noise that's surrounding us in these last days.

S1 (11:54):
Yeah, absolutely. So, Jeff, I made a statement earlier, and
you're the expert here where I talked about how much
prophecy is in Scripture. Give me a proportionate amount. How much?
If I were looking at the 66 books, what percentage
of those books would be about prophecy? Or how often
is prophecy referred to?

S7 (12:11):
Yeah, well, there are over 8300 prophecy verses in the
Bible that makes up about a third of the Bible.
So anywhere from 28 to 33% of the Bible was
prophetic at the time it was written. Uh, that's a
big deal. Uh, if you went to a movie and
only watched two thirds of it and left, then you
wouldn't know how the story was going to end. Same
with the book. And God particularly chose to write his book.

(12:34):
As you mentioned earlier, the 66 books of the Bible. Well,
his last chapter, his last book is a book that
is 95% prophetic. That tells us something about the kind
of God that he is and the weight that he
really puts on Bible prophecy.

S1 (12:49):
You know, so let me linger a little bit and
just make a cultural, cultural observation. So we've got falling away.
We've got ravenous wolves that are dressed in sheep's clothing.
We've got people who put on religious garments who say
that the Bible isn't for you, don't pay any attention
to it. And that's the part that's plainly understood. So
now this idea of ignoring it because you can't understand

(13:10):
it has worked its way under the threshold of some
churches in this country as well, that they'll read the
Psalms and they'll be blessed and moved. They read the
Gospels and they see, oh, the biography of Jesus, so
clearly stated. But they get to revelation. And because you
talked about this huge number of prophecies that are just
within this one book, they go, no, no, nobody can know.
So we don't know if it's allegory, we don't know

(13:31):
if it's literal. And yet you say this very succinctly
in the book, all previous prophecies were literally fulfilled. So
all future prophecies will be literally fulfilled if that axiom applies.
And I believe to the marrow of my bones that
it does, then whether you understand scrolls and seals and
bowls and beasts with multiple heads, it doesn't make any
difference whether we don't understand now it is prophecy that

(13:52):
will be fulfilled. But how do we draw a distinction?
Or is there one to be made between what is
symbolic and what is literal?

S7 (14:00):
Yeah, that's a great point. Well, first of all, we
do look at God's track record. And the way that
God speaks his prophecies is that typically they are fulfilled specifically, literally,
exactly as prophesied. In other words, Jesus wasn't prophesied to
be born in just some town. No, it's the specific
town of Bethlehem. Uh, it was a specific young virgin woman.

(14:22):
He talks about the. There would be he would be
crucified with thieves. It talks about he was pierced for
our iniquities. Uh, all of these prophecies that were given him,
by the way, Jesus fulfilled 109 Old Testament prophecies at
his first coming. Uh, there's over 200, 224 prophecies left
to be fulfilled. All of those we expect will be
fulfilled literally. So we have God's track record. And then secondly,

(14:47):
we we acknowledge the fact that there is symbolic language
used in Daniel and Revelation and places like that. But
many times, in fact, most times the meaning to the
symbolism is explained sometimes in the in the exact same verse.
And so we see in revelation, like the candlesticks are
the churches, we see that the angels are the messengers. Uh,

(15:08):
many times throughout revelation, uh, he'll describe that. And then
other times he does give us some metaphors, some similes,
that type of thing. But it doesn't change the essence
of the meaning. It's all based in something that is
solid and factual.

S1 (15:22):
Just because there's good hermeneutics in this. So if I'm
in revelation and it says something, something like a blah, blah, blah,
when I see the word like, what does that mean
in the Greek? Does it mean this is exactly what
it is? Or is this John's interpretation of what he's seeing?

S7 (15:38):
Yeah, I mean, it's metaphoric language. So John is using
symbolism in there. He's saying, look, I saw this angel.
He had a face like a calf. Another like a
face like a lamb, you know. So he's using that
language to, to display a certain characteristics that we would
associate with those animals or with a man, his intelligence,
that type of thing. So yeah, there's definitely symbolic language,

(15:59):
but none of the symbolism in the book of revelation
changes any of the the basic meanings or of the
interpretation of the end times. So these things are almost like,
you know, they're almost like wallpaper decoration, but they don't
change the studs and the form of the substance of the,
of the building.

S1 (16:16):
Well, that's a great point. There's so many excellent graphs
and illustrations in the book. I so appreciate the addition
of that. And again, a hat tip to Todd for
all his wonderful work in that area. But you talk
about progressive revelation. I thought this was a hugely important point.
And you start in revelation and you go to you
start in Genesis. Rather you go to revelation and you've
got this bell curve that starts lower and ends up

(16:37):
on an apex when it comes to revelation. Just a
quick word about that. Why did God reveal his prophecies
in a progressive manner?

S7 (16:45):
Well, number one, because none of us could ever been
able to accept it if he gave it to us
all at once. And so he had to give it
to us piece by piece, like eating a meal. He
gave it to us bite by bite. But then we
get the whole meal when we finished the book of revelation.

S1 (16:57):
Such a loving father to do it that way. So, Jeff,
when we come back, and I'm so glad that this
is a section on your newest book answering tough questions
about the end times. I want to talk about where
we got the variance in viewpoint. You know, if you
look at the eschatological timeline, why do we have pre
mid ah, where does dispensationalism fit in. What about predatorism.
And what about the tribulation. Is it already happened. So

(17:17):
lots of questions here. Roll up your sleeves. And by
the way oh I'm just barely touching the surface. You
have got to get the book answering tough questions about
the end times 100 Q and A's about Bible prophecy. Fabulous.
Back after this. What a treat to spend the hour
with Jeff Kinley. He has authored over 40 books and

(17:37):
speaks across the US on the subject of Bible prophecy.
He's got a couple of podcasts that are excellent. One
is called the Prophecy Pros Podcast and the other is
the Vintage Truth Podcast. And by the way, that's viewed
and heard in over 180 countries. So his newest book
is called Answering Tough Questions about the End Times 100
Q and A's about Bible prophecy. And I'm not good

(17:57):
in math. I'm so good in math. I went into broadcasting.
But I can tell you this there is no human
way in which I could cover 100 questions in the
gift of one hour of Jeff's time, so I'm just
touching on a few. The rest you got to get
the book. But I do want to dive into this
idea about the disparate views because, well, let me just
ask you a kind of a philosophical theological question. If
someone has a different position than I do on eschatology

(18:20):
in terms of the timeline, is that a reason to disfellowship?

S7 (18:25):
No, I don't believe it is. I think there are
many godly people on both sides of the fence and
different interpretations, and I think love obviously needs to cover
all that we do in the Christian world. However, as
I speak to people about it, sometimes someone will come
up and vehemently disagree with a certain position I'll take
and I just say, well, that's fine, we can disagree.
We have to love each other either way. And consider

(18:45):
this one view is not right. One view has to
be right. So it behooves both of us to really
search the scriptures and at least know why we believe
what we believe.

S1 (18:55):
Exactly. Thank you. And I felt that was an important
backdrop as we get into this. So talk to me
about dispensationalism. I remember the first, I think it was
the first week I took New Testament survey. That was
one of the first things we learned. What is it
and how does it dovetail into questions about prophecy?

S7 (19:11):
Yeah, that's a great question. So basically dispensationalism is a
way of kind of a template over which you can
understand the Bible. It sees God dealing with humanity over
time through different methods or through different relationships. Uh, God
dealt with Adam in a certain way. Adam had a
certain knowledge about God. Uh, and along comes Noah. He

(19:34):
dealt with Noah in a certain way. Then he starts
giving the law. We get more revelations. We talk about
that progressive revelation with each progression in God's revelation. There's
more accountability, uh, to with humanity. Now, the other distinction
about dispensationalism is that it views scripture from a literal, grammatical, historical,
contextual approach. In other words, we believe that the Bible

(19:56):
was written to say what it says that was written
in plain language, and that through simply understanding what the
original author or the original audience understood, then you can
find the meaning of the passage and Janet. Yeah, that
happens through words. It happens through grammar, it happens through syntax,
through study, that type of thing. But it but it
means that we have to go back and cross those

(20:18):
language barriers, the historical barriers, the cultural barriers and the
worldview barriers. And we have to get back to what
did it mean then and to never say, what does
it mean to me?

S1 (20:29):
Mhm. Wow. Excellent teaching. One of the reasons I love
this topic is because it really forces us to go
back to the basics of how we read scripture, what
it means to read contextually. So thank you so much
for that. So let me do a flyover on the
main views because again, another superb graphic in the book
of the timing of the rapture, a let's define the
word rapture. We find it, do we not, in the

(20:49):
book of first Thessalonians?

S7 (20:51):
Yes, first Thessalonians 417 and it comes from the Greek
word harpazo, which means to to snatch away or to
catch up. And the, the Latin translation of harpazo was rapture.
And so that's what we get from the transliteration from
the Latin into the English rapture. It refers to the
time when Jesus will return to snatch away his bride. Uh,

(21:14):
prior to God unleashing his wrath on the planet. Now,
that's one of the views on the rapture. Uh, the
there's other views on the rapture. There's the mid-tribulation rapture view,
which says that Christians will endure half of the tribulation.
And then at the midpoint, that's when Christ is coming back.
And then a final view says, no, it's a post-tribulational view.

(21:36):
Christ is going to allow his bride to endure all
of God's wrath and the tribulation, but then he'll snatch
her up right before the Second coming. So you've got
the pre, the mid and the post. Those are kind
of the main views on the rapture.

S1 (21:48):
And you go into this in greater detail in the book,
but because you and I share the same worldview on this.
Talk to me when we believe that before the tribulation
we will be. And aren't you glad the word is
raptured as opposed to I've been harpazo. I think rapture
just sounds a whole lot better. Yeah. So what's going
to happen on that day?

S7 (22:05):
Yeah. Harpazo sounds more like an Italian dish, to be honest.
But yeah.

S1 (22:10):
I love it.

S7 (22:12):
So? So the good news is, and all throughout the
New Testament, here's what we see is you survey the
New Testament, you see this first century church living in
an eager anticipation, as if Christ could return for them
any day. And Paul outlines it like this. He says, look,
I know you. You're afraid. And in chapter four of
First Thessalonians, you're afraid. You don't know what's going on.

(22:33):
You think you're in the tribulation right now. Don't worry,
you're not going to go through it. He says, what's
going to happen is Jesus is going to come in
the clouds. Those who have died in Christ, their bodies
will be resurrected as first or excuse me, first Corinthians
15 says be given new bodies. Then we who are
alive will be caught up Harpazo raptured up to heaven
and will be with the Lord, will receive our new bodies.

(22:55):
And it says, we'll go and be with the Lord,
and we'll always be with him from that point on.
Now what's interesting about that passage is, is that there's
no mention there of of judgment of the nations. There's
no mention there of pouring out God's wrath. It's simply
a rescue operation, just as he did for Noah, just
as he did for Enoch, just as he did for

(23:16):
lot in Sodom and Gomorrah. He took him out. And
then the judgment of God came. So that's kind of
in a nutshell, what this rapture event is about. It
is so such a great teaching in the scriptures that
Paul called it. And Titus 213, the blessed hope, the
blessed hope. And it's the next event on God's prophetic calendar.

S1 (23:35):
Oh, even so, come Lord Jesus. So, Jeff, one of
the joys about knowing where I can find you is
that we get to talk and talk and talk. You
hear that music? I want to linger a little bit
with the rapture, because I get butterflies in my stomach
when we talk about this. What do we know? What
do we not know about that day? And then I
guess maybe it's because I'm in Washington and we've had
stunning events. I mean, I was here when a plane

(23:56):
went into the Pentagon and the entire culture was just
catatonic when it happened here and in New York and
in Shanksville, Pennsylvania. And it was and it was viewed
necessarily rightly, as a global event. Imagine now billions of
people being taken out. What what is going to what's
going to look like culturally when that happens? Jeff Kinley
is with me. I love this topic and I love

(24:17):
the fact that this man teaches this topic so well.
Answering tough questions about the end times 100 Q and
A's about Bible prophecy. Jeff Kinley's newest book back after this.
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Janet Parshall. We are spending the hour with Jeff Kinley

(25:01):
and it's an hour that's going far too quickly. Former pastor,
best selling author of over 40 books. He's a recognized
expert and thought leader in the field of Bible prophecy,
having authored over a dozen books on the subject. His
latest is called Answering Tough Questions About the End Times
100 Q and A's about Bible prophecy. And by the way,
I've got a link to his website and don't forget

(25:22):
he's got not one, but two podcasts. They are excellent.
He also has a weekly show on his channel TV
called Jeff Kinley Lie and Live and The King Is Coming,
both devoted to Bible prophecy. So I just the Bible
tells us to set our minds on things above. And
you're talking to people who are preparing for the arsenic
hour before dinner with kids. And I know that our
full well. You're also talking about people who are coming

(25:45):
home after a long day at work, and you and
I are talking about being harpazo. So I want to
know our dear, dear friend, Doctor Tim LaHaye, who's now
in the presence of the Savior he loves so much.
He used to talk about this, and I don't think
our little mortals mind can possibly. What is man that
thou art mindful of him? How can we possibly comprehend
what it's going to be like? Because the Bible tells

(26:06):
me this. No man knows the hour of the day,
not even the sun. And it's going to happen like
a thief in the night. What else does it tell
us about that event?

S7 (26:15):
Yeah, well, there's a lot we can know about the rapture. We.
We know the who. It's Jesus, it's the living saints.
It's those who have died in Christ and who have
been in heaven. We know the why. Scripture tells us
he delivers us from the wrath to come. First Thessalonians
five nine from the test that's about to come upon
the whole world. Revelation 310. We know the how. We

(26:36):
talked about the harpazo, the snatching away. It's very akin
to the custom of a groom snatching his bride up
to take her to the wedding. The thing we don't know, Janet,
is the when, yeah, when is it going to happen?
And this is when we get into the doctrine of imminence,
or that Christ could come at any time. In other words,
when we read about the Second Coming in Matthew 24

(26:58):
and revelation, there are dozens upon dozens of signs that
lead to the Second Coming, but not a single sign
that leads to the rapture. It is a signless event,
which means we must be ready at all times.

S1 (27:11):
And again, if that doesn't give you goosebumps. Awake O sleeper.
So when it happens, you know. And I remember again, Tim,
talking about the fact you're on an airplane and half
the people disappear and so does the pilot. Um, you're
driving the cars on a busy interstate, and all of
a sudden multiple cars are suddenly emptied. I mean, Scripture
doesn't tell us. So I'm using our sanctified imagination here

(27:33):
to let the record reflect. I'm not practicing sloppy eisegesis
by any stretch of the imagination, but when a boatload
of people, Lord willing. The number grows exponentially every moment
because he's not willing that any should perish. But when
this suddenly happens culturally, what's going to happen to those
who are infamous? Title of a series Left behind?

S7 (27:53):
Yeah, I mean, it's going to be catastrophic on a
scale that the world has never seen before. There's going
to be a global panic that is going to grip
planet Earth. I mean, you think about when nine over
11 happened, the fear. This just happened in one place.
It really in a small place, in a big place
in New York City. And yet the whole world was

(28:15):
in fear. Think about the Covid pandemic, all that fear
that was propagated during that time. This is nothing compared
to the fact that there's going to be. I don't
know how many Christians are on the planet. Hundreds of millions,
perhaps a billion. Who knows how many Christians there are.
There's no such thing as a secret rapture when it happens.
Everybody's going to know about it. And you're right. From

(28:37):
every strata of society, from government to the arts to
the sciences to education, uh, to to, uh, the military, uh,
to travel and transportation. Uh, the internet's going to glow.
White hot cell towers are going to collapse under the
weight of the signals. People's phones are going to absolutely, uh, glow,

(28:57):
because what's going to happen is people are going to
sense for the first time, perhaps in their entire lives,
that something has happened that that is irreversible and that
everything those Christians said has just come true.

S1 (29:11):
Well, you know, when I was a child growing up,
my mom said that there's a very famous newspaper that
allegedly has in their vault the headline millions disappear. So
you wonder what it's going to be like when something
like that happens. God made time. He doesn't need time.
But again, just letting your imagination roll. So when this
happens and the Christians are taken up in Africa, one

(29:32):
wonders how you can see that at the same time
happening in Australia, let alone the United States. So I mean,
he's the God of the universe. So for him, this
is not a problem. He lives in a different dimension.
He is spirit. But I can't imagine what that view
from heaven will look like when all the saints are ascending.

S7 (29:49):
Yeah, absolutely. It's going to be a glorious time for
the church because this means that it's time for the wedding.
I mean, what bride doesn't get excited knowing that those
wedding bells are actually ringing? You're going up the steps
and into the church to be married. And really, to
be honest, Janet, Jesus joy at the rapture will be
greater than our joy because this is something he has

(30:10):
been preparing for for 2000 years. And so he is
going to be so excited to come. And it says
that there'll be a trump of God. Jesus will shout,
an angel will shout, and we're going to be snatched
up to be with him forever. But for those left behind,
the Bible says it's going to be. In fact, Jesus said,
the most terrible, horrific time the world has ever known.

S1 (30:32):
Wow. Well, and you know, I guess being in Washington
and knowing that we're in the age of not just telecommunications,
but artificial intelligence. That idea of the trumpet sounding. And again,
this is my little Mickey Mouse mime. How do they
hear the trumpet in Australia? But they also hear it
in Africa. Right. But this is the God of the heavens.
So for him, this. And I'm going to sit back
in amazement. So we're raptured up. Where do we go?

S7 (30:55):
Yeah, we go to be with the Lord in heaven.
We go straight to heaven with Jesus, meet him in
the air and we're in heaven. Janet, I believe during
those seven years that God is unleashing his wrath. That's
when we're celebrating the wedding. That's when we're receiving our
rewards at the Bema Seat of Christ. And at the
end of that time, we returned with Christ. Revelation says,
from heaven, so presumes we've been in heaven with Christ

(31:18):
at the Second coming at that time.

S1 (31:20):
Mhm. Wow. Amazing. And if he's going to wipe away
every tear we're not going to look back. Right. We're
not going to be looking down at all of these
people who were left behind. Because if that doesn't break
our heart there's something seriously wrong.

S7 (31:33):
That's the beauty of the rapture, is that First Corinthians
15 says, we will be transformed. We're going to be
made into the body. Like Christ's body, our sin natures
are going to fall away. Uh, we will be able
to see the world righteousness and even judgment from God's perspective.
And so all the things that troubles us right now
in our lives, no matter what it is, if you're

(31:54):
listening in a car, you're at home. You just got
back from the counselor's office. No matter what it is
in your life, there's not a single problem that you
and I have today that would not be solved by
the rapture.

S1 (32:05):
Amen and amen. So the tribulation comes to an end immediately.
First of all, how does the tribulation end? What does
the Bible tell us?

S7 (32:14):
Yeah. Tribulation ends. Jesus says in Matthew 24 is that
it ends with the sign of the Son of Man
appearing in the clouds in the sky. Uh, revelation 19
says he'll come back riding on a white horse, followed
by the armies of heaven, which include the saints.

S1 (32:29):
Wow. So this is what we refer to as the
Second Coming.

S7 (32:32):
Yes, absolutely.

S1 (32:33):
All right, so now we step into an era called
the Millennial kingdom. And just like talking about the tribulation
with pre, mid and post, there are three major views
on the millennium. What are they.

S7 (32:45):
Yeah. Well one view would say that there really is
no millennium. And that's that's called the millennial view. Meaning
there's there's no millennium. They would say that we are
in the kingdom right now. Now, those who would take
that view would also see the church as being the
new Israel. In other words, there's no specific end times
planned for Israel. It's just that we are the new Israel.

(33:06):
So a millennial just means no millennium. Uh, and then
there's another one called the Postmillennial View, which basically says
that we're going to Christianize and sanctify the earth so
much with with people being converted that Jesus is just
going to come down and join this party that we've
already started. Uh, so that we kind of make the
world into a Christian place. And then the second view is,

(33:29):
is the or the third view is the Premillennial view,
which says that Christ will return first. And then after that,
according to Matthew 25. He'll then set up his earthly
kingdom for a thousand years on the planet. And this
was the kingdom, Janet, that the Jewish people longed for
when Jesus came. They thought, oh, finally you're here. You're
going to fulfill the the promise made to David that

(33:50):
that his heir would sit on his throne. You're going
to come and bring righteousness to the nations. And like
Isaiah nine six says, A son will be born, a
child will be given, and the government will rest on
his shoulders. And yet Jesus didn't come to do that.
They rejected the kingdom. And so he died for our sins.
And yet the kingdom has just been postponed, hasn't been negated,
but it's just been postponed. We believe that when Christ

(34:12):
comes back, he will. Then, according to revelation 20, set
up that kingdom he promised.

S1 (34:17):
Do you think that in part is why there will
be believing Jews in the Millennial Kingdom?

S7 (34:23):
Oh, absolutely. Yeah. There's going to be promises fulfilled to
the Jewish people. In fact, there will be a temple
in the Millennial Kingdom, and the Jews will will practice
their their sacrifices there as a memorial. It's sort of
like our Lord's Supper to remember what the Messiah had
done for them. Originally, this kingdom was promised. If you'll
keep in mind, Janet, to the Jewish people. And we

(34:43):
were grafted in. Romans nine through 11 tells us. And
yet we're going to enjoy those blessings right alongside with
them as Christ rules from Jerusalem.

S1 (34:50):
Well, now we're talking about a thousand years, and a
thousand years is to be interpreted as a thousand years, right?

S7 (34:58):
Yeah. I mean, six times in six verses in revelation 20,
God says, it's a thousand year. We didn't know how
long it would be. The Old Testament doesn't give us
that specificity. But when we get to revelation chapter 20,
he tells us that six times. And if you're a
teacher of of anything, you know that if you repeat
something six times, not only is it to be believed,

(35:19):
but it's also going to be on the test.

S1 (35:20):
Yeah, that's exactly right. So so there's some presuppositions about
a thousand years people will live, they will be born
and they will die. But people will also come to
faith during this period as well. Now that begs the question,
is the Holy Spirit active and moving during this period?

S7 (35:40):
Absolutely. The Holy Spirit's moving because no one can come
to faith unless the Holy Spirit convicts someone of their sin.

S1 (35:47):
Okay, excellent. Now, did I tell you we're not going
to get anywhere near close to answering 100 questions? This
is a wonderful reason for you to get the book.
By the way, published by harvest House and Hat Tip
to harvest House. They do such a wonderful job on
all the books they publish about prophecy. Stellar authors, clear,
crystal clear biblical teaching. And they did it again with
this book. It's called Answering Tough Questions about the End

(36:09):
times 100. Q and A's about Bible prophecy. Jeff Kinley
wrote it. So did Todd Hampson, and as a result
of that, there's some great graphics in the book as well.
So check it out. It's all there on my information page.
Got more with Jeff right after this. Jeff Kinley has

(36:32):
authored over 40 books and speaks all across the U.S.
to equip patient Christians rather to discern the times. A
couple of podcasts, a couple of TV programs, a whole
bunch of books. His latest tough answering tough questions about
the end times 100 Q and A's about Bible prophecy.
Now I am doing a super flyover underscore. Again, so
many questions I'm not able to cover. That's why you're

(36:54):
going to get the book. This is to stir your
curiosity and make your heart beat a little bit faster,
with joyous anticipation of Christ's return. When last we met,
we were in the Millennial Kingdom, and I asked you, Jeff,
if the Holy Spirit would still be active. And you said, absolutely,
because no one comes to faith without the work of
the Holy Spirit. So we come down from heaven. Those
of us who now are we've we've been with Christ.

(37:14):
We have a glorified body. We come down. That tells
me there's kind of a hierarchy somewhere in this millennial kingdom.
Break that down for me.

S7 (37:22):
Yeah, well, in the millennial Kingdom, there's going to be
a reward system. I mean, we will be rewarded based
upon what we did for Christ. First Corinthians chapter three,
second Corinthians, chapter five tells us that. And when we
are in the kingdom, we will be given different responsibilities,
a different places of service. And the Bible says that
all Christians will will make it to heaven. They'll go

(37:44):
in the Millennial Kingdom, but some will serve in different areas. Uh,
some will reign over cities, some over nations. Uh, some
will have different responsibilities. And so, uh, we all get
to be close to Christ. We're all made perfect with him. Uh,
but yes, there's going to be different degrees of reward
and responsibilities in that kingdom.

S1 (38:00):
Mhm. I heard Billy Graham say once he wants to
be mayor of Jerusalem. And Cliff barrows said he wants
to direct the heavenly choir. So those two jobs are
probably already taken. Yeah. So what's interesting, though, that this
is a kind of a J.R.R. Tolkien moment when you
think about this. So we come back from heaven because
we've been with Jesus in our glorified body, and yet
it's a thousand years where people are born, live and die.

(38:22):
So believers will, and this is new to me, will
be commingling with non-believers, right?

S7 (38:29):
Yeah. It's going to be like you said. It's going
to be the clashing of worlds. There'll be believers in
the tribulation period. Matthew 25 tells us who are Gentiles
and Jews who will essentially just walk into the kingdom
in their mortal bodies. At some point they will die.
But but before they die, they're going to propagate, and
then those children will propagate for a thousand years. They'll
be reproduction going on in the kingdom. But the Bible

(38:50):
tells us in Isaiah that that people will be thought
to be, uh, sort of odd if they don't live
past 100. We'll live longer in the Millennial Kingdom. Uh,
but they'll have an opportunity to make a choice for
the Savior on their own, uh, while they're in that, uh,
that physical state. And then, of course, uh, once they
choose Christ, they'll be able to enjoy all the blessings
that comes with being in the kingdom.

S1 (39:12):
So two things. Number one, that's an act of mercy
for the Lord, that that longer life means an opportunity.
It really goes to the heart of his not being
willing that any should perish. I want to underscore that,
because that tells me how merciful my great King is.
But second of all, here's a conundrum one would think,
but if we come down from heaven after being with
Jesus and now we're in the millennial kingdom and people
are going to be born, they're going to live and

(39:32):
they're going to die. Death is still around even though
we're in the Millennial Kingdom. Correct?

S7 (39:38):
Yeah, yeah. People will definitely die during the Millennial Kingdom,
either through, uh, through Christ's justice upon their life or
just through natural death. The good news is, is that
while they're alive during that kingdom, they'll be able to
see us in our glorified bodies and say, hey, this
is what comes with the package. If you trust Christ.
I mean, you get all this, you know, and so
that I think is going to be a draw to them.

(39:59):
The Jewish people will also be a great witness to
unbelievers during that time. And of course, the presence of
Jesus himself physically in Jerusalem will also be there for him.
So they'll really be again, no excuse.

S1 (40:11):
That's that. That's the part again, using my sanctified imagination.
So you're going to look at people who have glorified bodies.
I mean, you can take every sci fi film you've
ever watched. It doesn't come close to what's coming, folks.
And Jesus is the ruler, okay? Not the president of
the United States, not the Ayatollah Khomeini, not Vladimir Putin.
Nobody but King Jesus. So you are aware of his presence.

(40:34):
You're seeing him there. You're seeing these people who have
already been raptured and glorified bodies. Jeff, how could anybody
not be? I know this probably is a sophomoric, naive
question on my part. How does anybody not believe in
that kind of an environment?

S7 (40:48):
No, it really blows the mind as to why anyone
would refuse Christ. And yet they do. In fact, by
the time the thousand years are up, we have nations
that are in rebellion against God. And I think this, Janet,
speaks to the harsh reality of the deception and the
depravity of the human heart. How deep is our darkness
when we're in ourselves? Yes. And yet, even in a

(41:10):
perfect environment, surrounded by all these lovely, wonderful things, men
will still choose to follow their sin. Of course, Satan
is released at the end of that time. He deceives
them even further. They try to rebel against Christ. That
rebellion is squashed. And then we enter into eternity where
sin will never remain.

S1 (41:27):
Wow. Well, at what point Does Jesus make the new
heaven and the new earth? Is it at the end
of the Millennial Kingdom?

S7 (41:34):
Yes, that comes at the end of Millennial Kingdom. There'll
be what's called the Great White Throne Judgment, where all
the dead that are in Hades and hell will be
brought up to be judged specifically, and then they'll be
cast into the lake of fire. God will essentially unmake
the heavens. He'll heal from a subatomic level. He'll create
new heavens and new earth, and we'll live in a
place that that we could not put on paper. That

(41:57):
is so a wonderful that God has planned for us
in that time. So yeah, new heavens, new earth, back
to Eden again.

S1 (42:04):
Unbelievable. And that's just like God to take us back
to that place of perfection. Uh, again, I don't know
that the Bible speaks to this, but I love to
let my imagination run wild, knowing it's paling in comparison
as to what will absolutely happen when Jesus makes that
new heaven and that new earth. Will we get a
front row seat to see that?

S7 (42:20):
I think so. I do. I think God's not going
to hold back anything. In fact, they're going to be
experiences not only to witness what he does, but things
that we will be able to do, places we'll be
able to travel in the universe things will be able
to witness. And then just being around the glory and
the aura and the attributes of God at all times,
this is what we were meant to be. And we'll

(42:41):
get that.

S1 (42:42):
Yeah. Amen and amen. Jeff, I would be remiss again
recognizing that there are people at all different levels on
their spiritual journey listening to this. If I didn't ask
you to answer the question, how do you know for sure?
You just said, and I want to underscore this with
my yellow magic marker. Jesus's return is imminent. There's no
prophecy that needs to be fulfilled before he returns. There
is no seminal event that will happen before he returns.

(43:04):
He will happen in an instant, like a thief in
the night. You don't see this one coming, in a word.
So you said it earlier. I want to say it again.
We need to be prepared. How does somebody prepare?

S7 (43:16):
Yeah. You prepare by simply trusting in Jesus Christ for salvation.
Jesus is the only man, the only faith leader, who
ever rose from the dead, authenticating and proving everything he
said is going to happen, including these end times prophecies.
Put your trust in Christ. You'll be on the Ark
of God. He's going to come get you at the
rapture and take you to heaven.

S1 (43:36):
Well, to put a new spin on your day, I
hope so. I hope it puts a new spin on
your life. And if you've not yet made that decision,
don't put it off. You don't know. Even if Jesus
doesn't return tonight. What if you don't make it beyond tonight?
Where are you going to spend eternity? So these conversations
are not only the kind that get your heart to
race and your feet to be swift, to share the

(43:57):
gospel while it's still daylight. It's a it's a profoundly
important moment to stop and ask yourself, do I know
beyond a shadow of a doubt, that tonight if I
breathe my last, I would be absent from the body
and present with the Lord? If you can't answer that
strongly in the affirmative, then friend, consider Jesus and ask yourself,
who is he? In the meantime, brothers and sisters, those

(44:18):
of you who know that you know that you know,
get the book answering tough questions about the end times
100 Q and A's about Bible prophecy. Jeff. Excellent. Can't
wait to talk again. Thanks. We'll see you next time.