April 21, 2025 • 44 mins
Abigail Shrier, a writer for the Wall Street Journal, has dug deep into the trans epidemic, talking to the girls, their agonized parents, and the counselors and doctors who enable gender transitions, as well as to “detransitioners”—young women who bitterly regret what they have done to themselves. Coming out as transgender immediately boosts these girls’ social status but once they take the first steps of transition, it is not easy to walk back. Abigail will offer urgently needed advice about how parents can protect their daughters.
Become a Parshall Partner: http://moodyradio.org/donateto/inthemarket/partners
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
S1 (00:00):
Hi friends, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
and it is my sincere hope that you'll hear something
that will equip you, edify you, encourage you, enlighten you,
and then gently but consistently push you out into the
marketplace of ideas where you can let your light so
shine before men and go and tell them the good news.
Before you listen to this podcast, let me just tell
you about this month's truth tool. It's called The Jesus Book,
(00:20):
written by pastor Jack Graham. I love it because he
really does recognize the fact that biblical literacy is declining,
and that a lot of people think that the Bible
is too complicated, that it's written for pastors or for scholars.
And yet, in truth, Jesus is there from Genesis to Revelation.
And that book was written for every single one of us.
We just need a better way to know how to
study God's Word. And that's exactly what the Jesus Book
(00:42):
is all about. So when you give a gift of
any amount this month, I'm going to give you a
copy of The Jesus Book by doctor Jack Graham. Just
call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58 or give
online to in the market with Janet Parshall. Also consider
becoming a partial partner. Partial partners always get the monthly
truth tool, but in addition, they get a weekly newsletter
(01:03):
that includes some of my writing and an audio piece
only from my partial partners. So whether you want to
give one time or you want to support the program
every single month, just call eight 7758 or online at
In the Market with Janet Parshall. Scroll to the bottom
of the page. Thanks so much for letting me take
a moment of your time. And now please enjoy the broadcast.
(01:28):
Hi friends, this is Janet partial. Thanks so much for
choosing to spend the next hour with us. Today's program
is pre-recorded so our phone lines are not open. But
thanks so much for being with us and enjoy the broadcast.
S2 (01:39):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:41):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (01:43):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S5 (01:45):
Extremely rare safety move by a 17 years.
S6 (01:49):
The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated a.
S1 (02:07):
Hello, friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall.
Thank you so much for joining us this hour. Boy,
am I glad you're here because you're going to hear
something that's markedly countercultural, but it's something else. It is
profoundly compassionate. If we really care for our daughters, then
we're going to do everything we can to protect them,
are we not? And yet we have some pied pipers
(02:28):
who are playing a rather deadly tomb. And that tomb
is leading our young girls into irreversible choices that break
their heart and sometimes break their mind. And so, in
the midst of this cacophony of tunes right now, there's
a voice of clarity. And I believe that voice is
filled with courage. And I'm so glad we get to
spend an hour with that voice. Abigail Schreier is with us.
(02:51):
She is a freelance writer for The Wall Street Journal.
She picked up a degree from Columbia College, got another one,
a philosophy degree of all places from Oxford University. And then,
as if that weren't enough, she goes on and gets
a law degree from Yale Law School. But she joins
us today, having written the book Irreversible Damage The Transgender
Craze Seducing Our Daughters. Welcome to a wake up call. Abigail.
(03:15):
First and foremost, the warmest of welcomes. I can't give
you back the hour you're about to give me. But
I can't tell you how much I treasure the hour
you're going to share with us a couple of questions
just on your background. Obviously, you're a thinker. You wouldn't
have gotten a degree in philosophy if you didn't love
to think and examine and sift and weigh, and then
you go on and get a law degree. Why did
you not pursue a career in a courtroom?
S7 (03:34):
It's a good question. I didn't particularly enjoy the practice
of law very much. I come from a family of lawyers,
but it just it wasn't for me.
S1 (03:46):
That's interesting. Well, I'll tell you what, though. You do
mostly opinion writing. So you're still trying to sway the jury.
Only this time your jury is in the court of
public opinion rather than a courtroom. So I think all
that lawyering stuff you learn probably is being used to
a great advantage. Which leads me to my second question. Abigail,
are you out of your mind? Do you watch what's
happening to J.K. Rowling yet? You wrote about this.
S7 (04:08):
You know, I didn't. I didn't write this. Um, you know,
the way I usually do opinion journalism, but this was actually,
you know, much pure investigative reporting. And I did it
because I couldn't find an investigative reporter to take it up.
And I realized that this was a real phenomenon that
was that was occurring. It was harming a lot of girls.
(04:30):
And and no one wanted to look at it. So, um,
I realized if a journalist didn't do it, no one would.
S1 (04:37):
Yes. And you're doing it, it seems to me, has
a kind of spillover effect. Maybe physicians, maybe psychologists, maybe teachers,
maybe moms and dads will get some strength by simply
looking at this objective, investigative reporting that you have done
and put in your book. Irreversible damage. Is that part
of your goal?
S7 (04:57):
I hope so. You know, what's what's going on is
a real crisis, and it's being pushed by so many forces.
And I just want to say that most of the
parents who call me to talk tell me about their
daughters who are really, really suffering. Um, they're political progressives.
This is not you know, a lot of people try
to characterize this as, as, as an issue for conservatives
(05:19):
or religious people or alt right or whatever they say,
but it really isn't. This is a an objective problem.
This isn't somebody's agenda. This is a real crisis that
our daughters are in. And I think it's I think
it's a real, real time that everybody woke up to it.
S1 (05:34):
Yes. Here, here, let me tell you something else, Abigail.
Not only is it objective reporting filled with facts, footnoted,
well documented as somebody from Yale Law would do, that
comes as no surprise, but it's filled with compassion. There
really is a heart cry that you're trying to put
out here, that these young adolescent girls are really caught
in a spider's web in some respects. And so you're
not writing from a finger pointing, kind of convicting way.
(05:57):
You're writing from a compassionate way, saying that these girls,
in some respects are being used as pawns. You don't
use that word exactly, but they're being manipulated in a
culture that's doing a kind of robust experimentation. It seems
to me right now.
S7 (06:10):
That's right. These are the same girls who in a
past generation would have been anorexics or had multiple personality
disorder or any of these other, you know, hysterias that
that these young teenage girls who are in pain are
so susceptible to. Um, and I wrote it, I wrote,
you know, I don't read a lot of nonfiction, and
I wrote it in a way that I thought, I
(06:31):
hoped would would tell a good story so that I
could paint a picture in a way that I hope
someone would want to read. Um, so I tried very
hard to make it a readable and enjoyable read, even
though it's a difficult topic.
S1 (06:43):
You did. And you know, sometimes the truth is the
most interesting story to read, so I commend you for that.
So on that note, just out of curiosity, then who
did you want your target audience to be? The doctors,
the clinicians, the parents culture at large. Did you have
someone that that sort of stereotypical reader that you had
in mind when you were writing this?
S7 (07:02):
I'd have to say it would be Gen X moms
and dads, but especially the moms, because, um, you know,
moms don't tend to like to read political screeds, and
I frankly don't like to read them. I wasn't interested
in writing one. Um, but but we do like we
do care very much about that period of our lives
that was so poignant and so hard, which is adolescence.
(07:22):
And so I really wanted to, you know, paint a
picture of what an accurate picture, I hope, about what
teenage girls their daughters are going through right now.
S1 (07:32):
And they're going through so much, uh, you do an
excellent job of taking a look at the history of this,
and I don't want to get ahead before I go
to a break, because I'm going to start something. I
have to stop. But you point out the fact that
this idea of, um, gender dysphoria is not new. In fact,
if I were to pick up the DSM, not five.
Let me just go back and say it's DSM three,
(07:52):
the quintessential diagnostic tool for clinicians. What would I have
read when three came out as opposed to five today?
S7 (07:59):
So it's actually been fairly stable. You know, they called
it gender identity disorder then. Um, but it's we know
what it is. It's fairly stable and it's presentation. It
was until this decade, it was always overwhelmingly male. And
it emerged in early childhood, ages 2 to 4. And
most of these boys, it's profound discomfort in one's biological sex.
(08:22):
And most of these boys would outgrow it. You know,
they would in ages 2 to 4. They would say, no, mommy,
I'm not a boy. I'm a girl. And I only
want to play with girl things and only want to
play with other girls, and I hate my penis and
so forth. And most of these boys would outgrow it,
and a majority of them would become homosexual, and some
would go on to be straight men.
S1 (08:42):
So how does that differ from today, what we're reading,
and why are we seeing this uptick in the female
adolescent population so much to talk about irreversible damage, the
transgender craze. Seducing was the operative word in the subtitle
Our Daughters. Abigail Schreier is with us, freelance writer for
The Wall Street Journal, and has written a seminal book
on a very interesting and controversial topic back after this.
(09:25):
Ever feel intimidated by the Bible? Unsure where to begin
or how it all fits together? Well, you're not alone.
That's why I've chosen The Jesus Book by Doctor Jack
Graham as this month's truth tool. Learn to unlock the
timeless wisdom of God's Word. As for your copy of
the Jesus Book, when you give a gift of any
amount in the market, call eight 7758. That's 877 58
(09:46):
or go online to in the market with Janet Parshall.
I predict, and I'm cautious about doing that. But I
predict that this is going to be and I use
the word just before the break. This is going to
be a seminal book on this topic. It really is
written from a place of compassion. It's a wake up call.
(10:06):
It's it's handing out a cup of courage where courage
needs to be delivered to say, stop. Don't be so
caught up in a politically correct world or in the
inertia of a cultural trend, that you fail to understand
that there are real people caught in the snare of
these ideas and there is irreparable harm, irreparable damage. Which
is exactly the title of Abigail Schreier's brand new book.
(10:28):
She freelances for the Wall Street Journal. Excellent stuff. But again,
I think her book is going to be what defines Abigail.
Let me go back to what you said, because I
think it's very significant. 100 years ago, we called it
gender identity disorder. Now fast forward, mostly males. Now we're
seeing this uptick in this pre-teen population of girls. And
we've even changed the name gender dysphoria. Eh, Abigail? Why
(10:50):
did we change the name? And b why the manifestation
in girls now?
S7 (10:55):
Well, they changed the name to de-emphasize the psychopathology. Obviously,
the disorder itself looks like it's on the way out.
I don't know if they will, you know, take it out,
but as long as I suppose they can. There's insurance
codes for it, I, I suppose, leave it in. Um,
but but the important thing to know that out of
nowhere in the past decade, across the West, girls are
(11:17):
now teenage girls with no childhood history of gender dysphoria
are now the overwhelming demographic, claiming that they have gender
dysphoria and pushing for hormones and surgeries and getting them.
S1 (11:28):
Wow. Unbelievable. Do we know why? Why suddenly this population
and why this rapid onset? If I can put it?
In fact, you call it that rapid onset gender dysphoria.
You actually use those four initials in the book. Why?
S7 (11:42):
So this is a social contagion. It's girls sort of
communicating and, um, spreading their pain. Um, And you know,
when girls are in and people in general, when they're
in psychological pain, they look sort of to the culture
for an explanation and a much better identity today than
to say, you have, you know, um, that you're another
(12:04):
white girl is to find cover in an LGBTQ identity
at the same time these girls are they are in pain.
And whereas in prior generations they might have explained their
pain as I'm so fat, if only I weren't so fat,
you know, that sort of thing. Today they say, oh,
it's that I'm that I'm so imperfectly feminine. I'm not
really a girl. I'm meant to be a boy.
S1 (12:25):
Wow. But it's self-identifying. But it's also self-diagnosis. Now, that,
to me, is a death trap. Talk to me about that.
S7 (12:34):
So when you go into a Planned Parenthood clinic or
any gender clinic across the country, of which there are
now many, you effectively self-diagnose, there's not even a therapist
who needs to agree with your diagnosis of gender dysphoria. you,
you say you are. You have gender dysphoria. You sign
a waiver essentially, and you are given testosterone that day.
(12:56):
This is a scheduled three narcotic. Um, sorry, schedule three
controlled substance. It is. It leads to, you know, irreversible damage.
And and girls are deciding themselves that that is their diagnosis.
S1 (13:12):
Uh, and I just want to pause. So I make
sure what you just said trickles down into the ears
of our listeners and lands in their heart. You can
go on day one, make the declaration, be prescribed a
class three drug, and you can start taking it with
irreparable damage to go to the title of your book.
How is there not a board of ethics, a board
(13:32):
of review, any kind of oversight? You got a law degree.
You know you have to take ethics class. You know
that lawyers have to be reviewed and keep up with
their credentials. How are we dispensing these drugs without oversight
and hyper accountability?
S7 (13:45):
You know, unfortunately, the activists have been very successful in
intimidating and altering the standards and intimidating doctors who would
not want to go along so that all the major
medical professional organizations have adopted a so-called affirmative care standard,
which means that it's now the doctor's job to agree
with the patient's diagnosis, specifically with gender dysphoria.
S1 (14:10):
Are stunning. So let me put this out there. And
it seems sort of rudimentary and pedantic on one level,
but I think it speaks to the core issue here, self-diagnosis.
We've changed the name. So you have gender dysphoria. Now
what if you had body dysmorphic disorder? I do not
believe I should have these legs. I do believe I
should be in a wheelchair. Bona fide affirmed cases. What
(14:32):
physician do you know will cut off a patient's legs
to accommodate? Why do we do it here?
S7 (14:37):
It's a good question. You know, when you destroy. When
you take off a young girl's breasts. And by the way,
in age 16, you know, surgeons across the country are
taking off All are performing double mastectomies, what they call
top surgery on young girls. A girl, even without a
parent's approval or even a therapist's note. You're destroying a
biological capacity.
S1 (14:59):
Unbelievable. And that's just the top surgery in the research
that you did of these girls in this target group.
Because we're in Washington, right? We'd like to talk about
a lot of stats and figures. How many then go
on to make the choice to do bottom surgery as well.
Do you know?
S7 (15:12):
It's very small. I quote it in the book, I
think around three, 3%. They're not. The thing to know
is they're not really interested in becoming men. They just
want to escape womanhood.
S1 (15:22):
Exactly. And that, I think, speaks to the disparaging difference
between top and bottom surgery, because it is this lost.
Who am I if I if I do something to
the outside, I'm going to give order and definition and
purpose to the inside. Now again, I'm talking and this
is what you do in the book. You don't talk
about the adult transgender population. Your focus is specifically on
these girls. Pre-Teen, uh, predominantly you're looking at 10 to
(15:45):
14 in that age bracket group, but how many of
them walk away saying that was a great choice? If
the men generally 100 years ago tended to outgrow this,
that it was a temporary. Would we see that same
pattern if left untreated? Will we see that same pattern
in young girls?
S7 (16:02):
Well, first of all, I don't believe these girls necessarily
have typical gender dysphoria at all. So, unsurprisingly, we're seeing
huge numbers of regret already. We don't we won't know
the full numbers yet for a while, because this is
a new phenomenon. But we are already seeing a very
large and fast growing population just from the social media
(16:23):
accounts they now have, um, talking to each other about
their regret are very, very large and very fast growing. Um,
and part of the reason we don't it's hard to
get the actual numbers, of course, is because they don't
go back to their original surgeons with the regret. They
have to go to a new set of doctors.
S1 (16:42):
Exactly. And who's going to track that in the patient
to see that? Wow. Oh. So much. Abigail, again, thank
you for a full hour of your time because there's
so much to discuss. This stunningly important book is called
Irreversible Damage The Transgender Craze seducing our Daughters again. You're
going to hear me use this word a lot. It
takes somebody with a lot of chutzpah, a lot of
courage to be able to write a book like this.
(17:03):
So maybe a clinician, a clinician, a physician, a parent,
an educator will then likewise have the same courage to say, no,
I cannot be complicit in a being a part of
this irreversible damage. Back after this. We are talking with
(17:32):
Abigail Schrier, who has written the brave new book Irreversible
Damage The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters. And she takes
a long, hard look at a particular demographic that seems
to be very much the prey in this hunt to
change hearts and minds in our country. So you talked
before about bulimia and cutting and that sort of thing.
And Abigail, you know, common sense says, well, those are challenging.
(17:54):
And any mom of any daughter who's ever had those
issues knows that there's a lot of time spent in
prayer and angst and agony and clinicians and sometimes in
hospitalizations and outpatient therapy, etc. but the end game would
be that you'd get over this, that that would be
in the rearview mirror at some point in that girl's life.
And that would be that was who she was then.
But that's not who she is now. Talk to me.
(18:16):
Your title is not an a cavalier choice of words.
It's done with purpose, and it's succinct. What irreversible damage
is done to girls in this stage? You talked about
the testosterone. Obviously, if you get a double mastectomy, your
chances of being able to nurse a child in the
future are taken away. I guess you could get reconstructive surgery.
You note that very few go on to get bottom surgery,
(18:37):
but what sorts of other damage are caused in this choice?
S7 (18:42):
Well, infertility is one of the big ones because that's
where the testosterone leads. Very often it causes uterine atrophy
and it can lead to endometrial cancer, which is why
a prophylactic hysterectomy is often recommended after five years on it.
But there's something else, too. And this is maybe the
most significant. I mean, aside from the fact that we
(19:02):
don't know what long term testosterone use does to a
girl's body, there's something else, too. Is that, um, you know,
these girls aren't suffering from typical gender dysphoria, so they're
not leading good lives. They're not happy. They're not satisfied
by medical transition. So what we're seeing is a lot
(19:22):
of torment and a lot of regret.
S1 (19:24):
Abigail, how much comorbidity is tied into this? In other words,
the exterior challenge of I'm not a female, I'm a male,
and I'm going to go to the clinic and I'm
going to get the testosterone. That's all external. But what
about the non-diagnostic aspects of this? There have to be
some other components here.
S7 (19:42):
Sure. anxiety and depression are really big comorbidities. Very common
because these girls are in a lot of are really suffering,
they're in pain. And part of the reason that they, um,
initially like, uh, testosterone is because, um, testosterone actually suppresses
anxiety and it delivers euphoria. So they feel great and
(20:06):
can't wait to tell their friends to go on it.
S1 (20:09):
Wow. Unbelievable. So let me go back to what you
said before, which I thought was interesting. You did, by
my count. What was it? Close to 5000 interviews. Right.
To put this book together. And when you talk to
the parents of a lot of these girls, you said
that politically, if you were to put them on a spectrum,
that they would be progressive. I don't know if you
researched by talking to people who would be on the
conservative side of the spectrum, but would the parental response
(20:32):
have been any different? So in other words, how does
a parent's progressive politics play into a decision a child
may or may not have made?
S7 (20:40):
So so I connected. Yeah. Nearly 200 interviews and and
I'll tell you how politics plays in, you know, these
parents that I interviewed who were politically who are generally
politically progressive. They were very, very open minded people. They
were very concerned parents, but they were very open and
very open minded. And unfortunately, it kind of got used
(21:01):
against them because very often when the girl originally said
she was pansexual and this happened, the response was something like, oh,
that's okay, honey. Well, you know, would you like to
go to a pride parade? We can we can take
you there. We can do whatever we can to support you.
And then the girl turned on, you know, sort of
kicked things up a notch and decided, actually, mom, I'm really.
(21:23):
I'm not even a girl. I'm trans. And that's usually
when the the moms got scared.
S1 (21:30):
So. Wow, there's so much here. Let me just linger
as a mom for a minute. So in other words,
out of their parenting style, there tended to be a
more of a whatever you want Affirmation. Keep going in
that direction. Now I'm going to ask this without it
being a leading question. Counselor. How do you what should
the parent have done to respond? In other words, if
(21:52):
you get a clinic that will give you testosterone on
the day of and you get a parent who says, hey,
anything goes, I'm here for you, honey. Whatever you want. Um,
how in the end does that serve? Or is that
a component in the irreversible damage?
S7 (22:06):
So, um, I, you know, I have to say, even
though most of the parents I talked to were politically progressive,
I think the more significant thing about the parents across
the political spectrum is their generation. This is Gen X
and Gen X. Parents are more likely to introduce therapy
to their daughters very quickly, whenever they're in pain or distress.
(22:28):
And the problem is a lot of these therapists are
pushing this agenda very hard. They are affirmative therapists, and
they are encouraging the daughter on a on a very
bad path. Um, and and so when, when a, when
a parent is told to go along with this some
very often it solidifies the idea of this other boy
(22:50):
identity in a child's mind. But it really it's not
the parent's fault. They are given so many, so much
misinformation and frankly, they're being so coerced by therapists who
who trot out a suicide threat if they don't go
along with the with the daughter's announcement.
S1 (23:07):
Yes. And this goes to the point I made earlier, Abigail,
about there really is so much compassion in this, because
what you're saying in some respects is the parents are
hearing the quote, professionals, the professionals have bought this hook,
line and sinker, either for fear of retribution or it
is part of their worldview. And so mom and dad
don't want to go against the, quote, professionals. And as
a result of that, they actually fostered this self-identity of
(23:29):
I'm not a girl, I'm a boy. When we come back,
I want to talk some more about the irreversible damage,
and I want to talk about why Doctor Littman Doctor
Lisa Littman is so germane to the work that you
did in irreversible damage, and how that became sort of
a springboard, if you will, for much of what you're
writing about. The book is called Irreversible Damage. I cannot
believe I'm halfway through this conversation already. There's a ton
(23:52):
of stuff in this book I know I'm not going
to get to, and maybe that's not so bad. Maybe
that's a reason for you to pick up the book
and get it. Irreversible damage. The transgender craze. Seducing our daughters.
More with Abigail Schreier right after this. Friends, this is
(24:28):
Janet Parshall, and I want to take a moment to
remind you that today's program is prerecorded so our phone
lines aren't open. But I sure do appreciate your spending
the hour with us. And thanks so much and enjoy
the rest of the program. There are dozens of talk
shows that address politics, culture and technology, but in the
market is committed to bringing biblical truths to every facet
(24:50):
of life. When you financially support in the market as
a partial partner, you're helping people to better understand how
their faith intersects with their daily lives. Become a partial
partner today and receive exclusive benefits prepared just for you.
Call eight 7758 or go online to in the market
with Janet Parshall. If you are just joining us, the
(25:11):
warmest of welcomes. I'm glad you're here. And boy, I'm
glad that you're going to be able to hear the
first half of this program by going to in the
market with Janet Parshall. Left hand side, bunch of words.
Look for these two past programs. Click it on Download
This Hour in its entirety, or any of the two
hours we do every day going back a full year.
And you're going to want to listen to this program
(25:32):
in its entirety. What a challenging and important conversation. A
brave conversation And Abigail Schreier has written this book. She's
a freelance writer for The Wall Street Journal. She loves
to write, particularly about law and culture. No surprise there,
because she picked up a degree from Yale Law School.
But now she's influencing in the court of public opinion.
And I'm so glad. And the book that she's written
(25:53):
is a firestorm. It's called Irreversible Damage The Transgender Craze
Seducing Our Daughters. And in this book, she, with pinpoint specificity,
really looks at a particular demographic young pre-teen, young teen
girls and why they are being manipulated. And this phenomenon
of what's happening with these children, and I do call
them children, by the way. In fact, one of the
most stunning things you said before, Abigail, is that a
(26:15):
girl self-identifies, by the way, you can't self-identify diabetes, you
can't self-identify, um, you know, heart disease. But boy, you
can self-identify that. You've decided that you're in the wrong
body and there's no checks and balances, no ethical board
oversight on that. You trot on down to a clinic,
you get testosterone boom. That day, you can start it.
Which raises a secondary question If so many of these
(26:38):
grilled up ending top surgery, which is the euphemism for
a double mastectomy, do you have to have mom and
dad's involved? I mean, these are not, you know, this
these are not what the law would call emancipated minors.
They're unemancipated. So can they get that kind of surgery
without Mom or Dad's approval?
S7 (26:52):
Yes. They can. Um, you know, I, you know, certainly
girls as young as 16 that that, you know, there
there are many surgeons who will do that. Some require
you to be 18. But once you hit 18, you know,
lots and lots of surgeons become options. Um, even without
parental approval or even a therapist note.
S1 (27:12):
You know, it's stunning to me. And again, I'm just
going to speak just plain English here. Being a common man,
I couldn't take my granddaughter to the mall and get
her ears pierced without a having an accompanying adult and
be signing a waiver that's getting her ears pierced. And
if I wanted to, the earrings could come out in
the ears or the holes could grow back. But you
don't have to get parental oversight or a guardian ad
(27:32):
litem anybody, to be able to say before you go
on that testosterone, which could end up with a hysterectomy
five years from now, or, um, a double mastectomy that
could take away multiple options for you in the future.
But I got to get a waiver signed when I
go to get her ears pierced at the mall. What,
have we lost? Our minds.
S7 (27:54):
So the thing to know is that the age of
medical consent varies by state. In Oregon it is 15.
So you can get all kinds of things at 15,
including a double mastectomy.
S1 (28:04):
That just breaks my heart. That is so anti-woman. It's
just it's stunning to me. Let me go back to
Doctor Lisa Lipman, an ob gyn. You note that she
became a public health researcher and a mom. Why is
she germane to your book, Irreversible Damage?
S7 (28:18):
Because she was the researcher that started it all. You know,
she was noticing in I think it was 2016, she
was noticing that there are a startling number of adolescents
in her social media feed were coming out as transgender.
And she knew this was way, you know, far, far
more than prevalence data would have predicted. So she wondered why. Um,
and and the more research she did, she she realized
(28:39):
it looked a lot more like anorexia. It looked more
because she was it was concentrated in these friend groups. Um,
which it shouldn't be. You would think it would be
more distributed in the population. So once she did more research,
she she decided to conduct a study. And that academic study,
which was peer reviewed, appeared in an academic journal. And
(28:59):
it caused a firestorm because the activists didn't like it.
S1 (29:04):
Wow. Abigail, as you're and again, you love to do
opinion pieces, this is objective investigative reporting, irreversible damage. One
wonders how if you if you're an academician, if you're
a scholar, if you're a specialist in an area of
discipline that requires graduate level education, law, medicine, whatever, the
idea that you would acquiesce and give up what you
(29:26):
believe to be good science, common sense, best interests of
the child, best interests of the patient because the tsunami
of political correctness has swept through the country? Are we
that malleable as a culture, as a people?
S7 (29:38):
You know, unfortunately we are. I mean, Lisa Littman, for
whatever it's worth, is a political progressive. She's not, you know,
a terribly religious person. Um, secular. And she did this
only because of her integrity and her scientific interest and her,
you know, dedication to investigating a mental health issue facing
teenage girls. That was it. But she was treated and castigated,
(30:03):
even losing a job over it. Brown University pulled the
press release for her academic study from its website. I mean,
she was treated like a bigot, which is what she
was accused of being.
S1 (30:14):
Mhm. Stunning, stunning. So again, I'm a typical firstborn. So
I love to ask the why questions. Where and how
and why is this arising. In other words where is
the energy, the inertia, the power, the authority to marginalize
someone like Doctor Littman coming from activists, yes. But are
they collective? Do they march under the banner of one name?
(30:34):
Or is that thinking far too simplistic?
S7 (30:36):
The trans activists are an extremely exercised group, which, by
the way, I must say they do not represent transgender adults,
many of whom are very, very lovely people. But the
activists are extremely energised, extremely effective, and and they seem
to be winning. They are shutting down conversation about the
bodies and mental health of teenage girls.
S1 (30:58):
It's this is why I've said I've used the word
courage so many times. And many of the people who
endorse your book, Abigail, used the same word as well because, uh,
one hopes and prays that your career isn't marginalized because
you've dared to shine a bright light of kindness, compassion,
and truth on a particularly argumentative subject. I want to
talk about some of the purveyors of this, and you
take us right into the classrooms of America, and you refer,
(31:20):
and I thank you for making the distinction between the
general person who would be categorized as transgender and the activists.
Those tend to live on the edges anyway of any movement.
So take me to the classroom. What influence are they
having in the classroom? Because I'm guessing that the power
of the bully pulpit in a classroom is impacting this
demographic of preteen and teen girls.
S7 (31:41):
So I did a real investigation to the California public
school system, because we have a very I live in California,
and we have a very pervasive and extremely radical gender
identity curriculum set of curricula, and they are a model
for the rest of the country, and they're used elsewhere
in the country. And what I learned was a few things,
but one of the most startling was the how much
(32:04):
the activists were coming right into the classroom. So activists
are supplying the curricula. They're doing teacher trainings. They are
coaching after school gay straight alliance clubs. And they are
absolutely shaping how gender is taught from kindergarten up in
California schools.
S1 (32:21):
And LA unified, of course, the biggest district in the country.
So they can do it there. They can do it anywhere.
But there has to be at least an ideological linkage
between the teachers union, the administrators and these activists. Right?
Because they they're not barnstorming into the classroom. They're being invited.
So this is a pernicious worldview that seems to be
an underpinning out there.
S7 (32:39):
That's right. The teachers who don't agree were, of course,
the ones who helped me, you know, uncover the documentation
of this. But but by and large, the the teachers
are either woke themselves or they're very, very intimidated and
afraid to speak up and with good reason.
S1 (32:56):
So Abigail and I could spend hours in the classroom.
Your chapter on schools is powerfully important and significant to this.
Let me go to the practitioners I've seen, particularly people
that tend to go and become clinicians, psychiatrists, psychologists. They tend,
if I can use a biblical phrase, they tend to
be mercy givers. They really care for people. So there's
a compassionate call to get into this in the first place.
(33:19):
Why would you acquiesce? Why would you silence yourself? Why
would you self-censor if you said, honey, I can't do that,
I'm not going to prescribe that. Let's see what your
other issues are. You've told me that you're depressed. You
told me that you're anxious a lot of the time.
Let's start digging into some of those before we discover
whether or not you identify as someone of the opposite sex.
That's compassionate care.
S7 (33:41):
Right? So. But the thing to know is that 19
states in America now have conversion therapy bans, which includes
gender identity, which means therapists can lose their license if
they don't go, if they aren't careful and don't go
along with this. And when I say careful, they have
to be so careful with what they say in terms
of getting on board with the idea that a young
(34:02):
girl in front of them is really a boy, and
really finding her true self, even if that's not what
they believe.
S1 (34:08):
Wow, Abigail, you went to Yale. You come from a
family of lawyers. You write about the law. That's law.
That's law 101. That's coerced speech. How can those states
allow that?
S7 (34:19):
That's a great question, because you are absolutely affecting the
speech and the judgment and absolutely speech is so chilled
in this country in so many ways. Um, one of
it is through these conversion therapy bans. I agree. And
another way is social media. Even parents are terrified that
if they don't go along with this with their daughters,
they will be posted about, you know, and on social
(34:41):
media they could lose their jobs.
S1 (34:44):
So this is a biggie. There's big giants out there
that want to stop the idea of compassionate science based
care out there. When we come back, Abigail, two things
definitely I want to cover. Number one, I want to roll.
I want to know the role that social media plays
on this. You, over and over and over again refer
to YouTube stars, YouTube sensations. Um, I'm guessing this particular
demographic doesn't live without their iPhones. So the the door,
(35:08):
if you will, the the lock is open and the
flooding of this ideology would come into a young person's life,
particularly if they're already dealing with other issues. And they
watch some YouTube star who says, I was a boy,
now I'm a girl, or vice versa. And they go, aha,
I've just had my phenomenon. That's my problem as well.
I'll just get upper surgery, get on testosterone and all
my problems will go away. The other thing is you're
(35:30):
very encouraging because there is something Mom and Dad can do.
So I want to talk about that when we get back.
This book is a must. It's called irreversible Damage The
Transgender Craze seducing our Daughters. Learn more at my website.
In the market with Janet parshall.org. Abigail has a fabulous
Twitter sphere. Follow her. I've got a link so that
you can do that from now on. Back after this.
(36:04):
The book I hope and pray will cause a cultural tsunami.
It's called Irreversible Damage The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters,
written by Abigail Schreier, who is a freelance writer for
The Wall Street Journal. Her specialty is writing about law
and culture, and I'm so very grateful that this courageous
woman has decided to write this book. Whether or not
it's politically correct, it's factually accurate, and above all else.
(36:27):
And I tell you this because that was my takeaway
from the book. It is replete with compassion. If you
really care about people, if you care about our young
girls in this country, you want to rescue them from
the spider's web. And that's exactly what it is. Part
of the silk in that web is social media. You
write that Reddit, Tumblr, Instagram, YouTube are endless supplies of mentors.
Talk to me about that, Abigail.
S7 (36:48):
So one of the things I learned from parents is
that you don't. A teen doesn't need to be searching
for a gender, a transgender influencer videos in order to
stumble across them. Very often, girls would come to them
through art sharing websites or, you know, fanfiction, other kinds
of things. And then these videos start to queue up
(37:11):
and they are extremely, well, extremely well produced. They are
extremely charismatic and engaging. Transgender stars, you know, you know,
biological girls. And what they promise is that a course
of testosterone will fix your body. It will fix everything
that's wrong with you right now. And, um, it's very compelling.
(37:32):
It's a very compelling presentation. And and it's it's working.
S1 (37:38):
Yeah. Clearly. Clearly it's effective. So my question is this
because we talked earlier about comorbidity, which we know is
there in so many cases, if not all. So she
takes the testosterone. She redefines herself. She thinks this is
going to be the answer to her problems. And remember
Mom and Dad, we're going to scare you to death
because we're going to tell you that she's going to
attempt suicide or take her own life successfully if you
(38:00):
don't support her in this. But there's a flip side
to that coin, Abigail. She takes the testosterone. The co-morbidity
is not dealt with. The anxiety, the depression, and now
deep seated grief is a part of all of this.
And she becomes suicidal. Anybody talking about those stats?
S7 (38:16):
About the suicide stats?
S1 (38:18):
Yes. After the fact? Yes.
S7 (38:20):
Oh, after the fact. So we don't know. Um, I
can only tell you that the suicidal ideation rates are
very high even after transition. And with this population, there's
no proof that transition is helping. Um, is alleviating suicidality.
But there's something else, too, that I want to say
when we talked about the influencers, which is that, you know,
(38:42):
these girls are very lonely. Kids today spend a lot
less time with each other in person and a lot
more time online. And what that means is questions about
who they are and how uncomfortable they feel in their bodies.
And are they really the right kind of girl and
all that stuff? Rather than taking them to a girlfriend,
they take them to the internet, where a lot of
influencers are ready to tell them that if they don't
(39:04):
feel perfectly feminine, they're probably a boy.
S1 (39:07):
Wow. Wow. Abigail. Woman to woman, do you feel perfectly
feminine every day of your life?
S7 (39:15):
No, of course it's ridiculous. If anybody, you know the
number of women who who say, if I had known
there was an option, I would have taken it.
S1 (39:27):
Exactly. Oh my goodness. So in all the research that
you did all the interviews, did you have the opportunity
to talk to girls who had made this decision and
had regret?
S7 (39:38):
Yes, I did. I talked to a number of detransitioners,
these really remarkable young women and what they what they
tell is they, you know, they really tell a very
similar story. These are precocious young girls. They are so bright.
But they hit they hit puberty and things get hard.
And all of a sudden they don't feel like they
fit in with a group of girls. And right when
they're struggling, they start spending a lot of time on
(39:59):
social media, and they find that the one way to
to belong is to declare one of these identities.
S1 (40:06):
Mhm. Wow. Hunger. There's a heart cry there. If we're
really listening with the ears on our heart. There's such
a heart cry obviously. Maybe because I'm a mom and
a grandmom. But I love the fact that you give
us literally points on what we can do to find
our way back. Talk to me about some of those.
S7 (40:24):
So one of the most important is to get your
your daughters off social media. Um, obviously it depends how
old they are, but if they're if, you know, younger
and it's a possibility. Absolutely. We know that social media
is causing them anxiety and depression like we've never seen before.
And it is absolutely opening your daughters to unbelievably bad influences. Um,
(40:46):
the second thing to do is to oppose gender education
and gender ideology being pushed in the schools. There is
no reason we can't show compassion for transgender students without
indoctrinating an entire student body in gender confusion, which is
what we're doing right now. And the third big piece
of advice I have is to remember that you're the parent.
(41:09):
You do not have to go along with every self-identity
proclamation your daughter comes up with. It's important to remember
that she may just be she may think she's pansexual
or trans, but she's also 12 or 13 or 14.
And you're the parent for a reason.
S1 (41:24):
Yes, yes. Here, here. And amen. You talk about it's
important to reintroduce privacy into the home I love this
explain why.
S7 (41:32):
Because parents are sharing so much about their daughters. And
let me just say, I've been guilty of this, too. Um,
and I realize that it it I didn't realize until
I did the, um, you know, research for this book
how much pressure it puts on on their kids they
feel locked into because everyone in the world is asking
(41:53):
them about whatever they post online. And this includes, you know,
announcements about sexuality or gender identity. They feel like they
can't walk it back. And so this habit of sharing
everything private about yourself immediately with the with this, you know,
giant audience is really harming our young girls.
S1 (42:13):
Yes, yes. Wow. Mom and dad, you are getting such
invaluable counsel in this conversation. I find it also fascinating
and thrilling and maybe because I is one. But you say,
don't be afraid to admit that it's wonderful to be
a girl. Why is that important?
S7 (42:28):
Because these girls don't know it. They're hearing so many
negative messages. They're seeing very, very violent porn on the internet,
which is common. They're seeing women choking. They're being choked.
They are. They are terrified of what womanhood means. And
they don't have any positive indication that being a woman
having children and, you know, enjoying life as a woman
(42:50):
is a great thing.
S1 (42:53):
Yeah. Amen to that. Abigail. You're right. And I got
tears in my eyes when I read this part that
you met up with a dear friend whom you loved
to have lunch. You were looking forward to seeing her,
but there was an £800 elephant in the room. And
of course, it was the book. And when you finally
talked about the book and broached the subject, she really
pushed back. And it was hard. Do you have any
(43:13):
regrets at all about writing this book?
S8 (43:16):
No, I don't. I think, I think look, I just
wrote the truth. So if I didn't write it, someone
else would have.
S1 (43:23):
Ah, but you did. Abigail, you got there first, and
you said it with power, and you said it with eloquence.
So I have a new hero, and I want to
thank you for what you've done. Let me tell my
friends again. The book is called Irreversible Damage The Transgender
Craze seducing. I told you that was the operative word,
seducing our daughters. Written by Abigail Schrier. It is an
absolutely fabulous book. I've said it before. I'll say it
(43:45):
again in my classroom. This is a must read. Moms
and dads, wake up, look well to the ways of
your household. Pay attention and get them off their iPhone. Okay?
Thanks so much Abigail for the gift of your time.
Thank you for listening. We'll see you next time on
In the Market with Janet Parshall.
Hi friends, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
and it is my sincere hope that you'll hear something
that will equip you, edify you, encourage you, enlighten you,
and then gently but consistently push you out into the
marketplace of ideas where you can let your light so
shine before men and go and tell them the good news.
Before you listen to this podcast, let me just tell
you about this month's truth tool. It's called The Jesus Book,
(00:20):
written by pastor Jack Graham. I love it because he
really does recognize the fact that biblical literacy is declining,
and that a lot of people think that the Bible
is too complicated, that it's written for pastors or for scholars.
And yet, in truth, Jesus is there from Genesis to Revelation.
And that book was written for every single one of us.
We just need a better way to know how to
study God's Word. And that's exactly what the Jesus Book
(00:42):
is all about. So when you give a gift of
any amount this month, I'm going to give you a
copy of The Jesus Book by doctor Jack Graham. Just
call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58 or give
online to in the market with Janet Parshall. Also consider
becoming a partial partner. Partial partners always get the monthly
truth tool, but in addition, they get a weekly newsletter
(01:03):
that includes some of my writing and an audio piece
only from my partial partners. So whether you want to
give one time or you want to support the program
every single month, just call eight 7758 or online at
In the Market with Janet Parshall. Scroll to the bottom
of the page. Thanks so much for letting me take
a moment of your time. And now please enjoy the broadcast.
(01:28):
Hi friends, this is Janet partial. Thanks so much for
choosing to spend the next hour with us. Today's program
is pre-recorded so our phone lines are not open. But
thanks so much for being with us and enjoy the broadcast.
S2 (01:39):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:41):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (01:43):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S5 (01:45):
Extremely rare safety move by a 17 years.
S6 (01:49):
The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated a.
S1 (02:07):
Hello, friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall.
Thank you so much for joining us this hour. Boy,
am I glad you're here because you're going to hear
something that's markedly countercultural, but it's something else. It is
profoundly compassionate. If we really care for our daughters, then
we're going to do everything we can to protect them,
are we not? And yet we have some pied pipers
(02:28):
who are playing a rather deadly tomb. And that tomb
is leading our young girls into irreversible choices that break
their heart and sometimes break their mind. And so, in
the midst of this cacophony of tunes right now, there's
a voice of clarity. And I believe that voice is
filled with courage. And I'm so glad we get to
spend an hour with that voice. Abigail Schreier is with us.
(02:51):
She is a freelance writer for The Wall Street Journal.
She picked up a degree from Columbia College, got another one,
a philosophy degree of all places from Oxford University. And then,
as if that weren't enough, she goes on and gets
a law degree from Yale Law School. But she joins
us today, having written the book Irreversible Damage The Transgender
Craze Seducing Our Daughters. Welcome to a wake up call. Abigail.
(03:15):
First and foremost, the warmest of welcomes. I can't give
you back the hour you're about to give me. But
I can't tell you how much I treasure the hour
you're going to share with us a couple of questions
just on your background. Obviously, you're a thinker. You wouldn't
have gotten a degree in philosophy if you didn't love
to think and examine and sift and weigh, and then
you go on and get a law degree. Why did
you not pursue a career in a courtroom?
S7 (03:34):
It's a good question. I didn't particularly enjoy the practice
of law very much. I come from a family of lawyers,
but it just it wasn't for me.
S1 (03:46):
That's interesting. Well, I'll tell you what, though. You do
mostly opinion writing. So you're still trying to sway the jury.
Only this time your jury is in the court of
public opinion rather than a courtroom. So I think all
that lawyering stuff you learn probably is being used to
a great advantage. Which leads me to my second question. Abigail,
are you out of your mind? Do you watch what's
happening to J.K. Rowling yet? You wrote about this.
S7 (04:08):
You know, I didn't. I didn't write this. Um, you know,
the way I usually do opinion journalism, but this was actually,
you know, much pure investigative reporting. And I did it
because I couldn't find an investigative reporter to take it up.
And I realized that this was a real phenomenon that
was that was occurring. It was harming a lot of girls.
(04:30):
And and no one wanted to look at it. So, um,
I realized if a journalist didn't do it, no one would.
S1 (04:37):
Yes. And you're doing it, it seems to me, has
a kind of spillover effect. Maybe physicians, maybe psychologists, maybe teachers,
maybe moms and dads will get some strength by simply
looking at this objective, investigative reporting that you have done
and put in your book. Irreversible damage. Is that part
of your goal?
S7 (04:57):
I hope so. You know, what's what's going on is
a real crisis, and it's being pushed by so many forces.
And I just want to say that most of the
parents who call me to talk tell me about their
daughters who are really, really suffering. Um, they're political progressives.
This is not you know, a lot of people try
to characterize this as, as, as an issue for conservatives
(05:19):
or religious people or alt right or whatever they say,
but it really isn't. This is a an objective problem.
This isn't somebody's agenda. This is a real crisis that
our daughters are in. And I think it's I think
it's a real, real time that everybody woke up to it.
S1 (05:34):
Yes. Here, here, let me tell you something else, Abigail.
Not only is it objective reporting filled with facts, footnoted,
well documented as somebody from Yale Law would do, that
comes as no surprise, but it's filled with compassion. There
really is a heart cry that you're trying to put
out here, that these young adolescent girls are really caught
in a spider's web in some respects. And so you're
not writing from a finger pointing, kind of convicting way.
(05:57):
You're writing from a compassionate way, saying that these girls,
in some respects are being used as pawns. You don't
use that word exactly, but they're being manipulated in a
culture that's doing a kind of robust experimentation. It seems
to me right now.
S7 (06:10):
That's right. These are the same girls who in a
past generation would have been anorexics or had multiple personality
disorder or any of these other, you know, hysterias that
that these young teenage girls who are in pain are
so susceptible to. Um, and I wrote it, I wrote,
you know, I don't read a lot of nonfiction, and
I wrote it in a way that I thought, I
(06:31):
hoped would would tell a good story so that I
could paint a picture in a way that I hope
someone would want to read. Um, so I tried very
hard to make it a readable and enjoyable read, even
though it's a difficult topic.
S1 (06:43):
You did. And you know, sometimes the truth is the
most interesting story to read, so I commend you for that.
So on that note, just out of curiosity, then who
did you want your target audience to be? The doctors,
the clinicians, the parents culture at large. Did you have
someone that that sort of stereotypical reader that you had
in mind when you were writing this?
S7 (07:02):
I'd have to say it would be Gen X moms
and dads, but especially the moms, because, um, you know,
moms don't tend to like to read political screeds, and
I frankly don't like to read them. I wasn't interested
in writing one. Um, but but we do like we
do care very much about that period of our lives
that was so poignant and so hard, which is adolescence.
(07:22):
And so I really wanted to, you know, paint a
picture of what an accurate picture, I hope, about what
teenage girls their daughters are going through right now.
S1 (07:32):
And they're going through so much, uh, you do an
excellent job of taking a look at the history of this,
and I don't want to get ahead before I go
to a break, because I'm going to start something. I
have to stop. But you point out the fact that
this idea of, um, gender dysphoria is not new. In fact,
if I were to pick up the DSM, not five.
Let me just go back and say it's DSM three,
(07:52):
the quintessential diagnostic tool for clinicians. What would I have
read when three came out as opposed to five today?
S7 (07:59):
So it's actually been fairly stable. You know, they called
it gender identity disorder then. Um, but it's we know
what it is. It's fairly stable and it's presentation. It
was until this decade, it was always overwhelmingly male. And
it emerged in early childhood, ages 2 to 4. And
most of these boys, it's profound discomfort in one's biological sex.
(08:22):
And most of these boys would outgrow it. You know,
they would in ages 2 to 4. They would say, no, mommy,
I'm not a boy. I'm a girl. And I only
want to play with girl things and only want to
play with other girls, and I hate my penis and
so forth. And most of these boys would outgrow it,
and a majority of them would become homosexual, and some
would go on to be straight men.
S1 (08:42):
So how does that differ from today, what we're reading,
and why are we seeing this uptick in the female
adolescent population so much to talk about irreversible damage, the
transgender craze. Seducing was the operative word in the subtitle
Our Daughters. Abigail Schreier is with us, freelance writer for
The Wall Street Journal, and has written a seminal book
on a very interesting and controversial topic back after this.
(09:25):
Ever feel intimidated by the Bible? Unsure where to begin
or how it all fits together? Well, you're not alone.
That's why I've chosen The Jesus Book by Doctor Jack
Graham as this month's truth tool. Learn to unlock the
timeless wisdom of God's Word. As for your copy of
the Jesus Book, when you give a gift of any
amount in the market, call eight 7758. That's 877 58
(09:46):
or go online to in the market with Janet Parshall.
I predict, and I'm cautious about doing that. But I
predict that this is going to be and I use
the word just before the break. This is going to
be a seminal book on this topic. It really is
written from a place of compassion. It's a wake up call.
(10:06):
It's it's handing out a cup of courage where courage
needs to be delivered to say, stop. Don't be so
caught up in a politically correct world or in the
inertia of a cultural trend, that you fail to understand
that there are real people caught in the snare of
these ideas and there is irreparable harm, irreparable damage. Which
is exactly the title of Abigail Schreier's brand new book.
(10:28):
She freelances for the Wall Street Journal. Excellent stuff. But again,
I think her book is going to be what defines Abigail.
Let me go back to what you said, because I
think it's very significant. 100 years ago, we called it
gender identity disorder. Now fast forward, mostly males. Now we're
seeing this uptick in this pre-teen population of girls. And
we've even changed the name gender dysphoria. Eh, Abigail? Why
(10:50):
did we change the name? And b why the manifestation
in girls now?
S7 (10:55):
Well, they changed the name to de-emphasize the psychopathology. Obviously,
the disorder itself looks like it's on the way out.
I don't know if they will, you know, take it out,
but as long as I suppose they can. There's insurance
codes for it, I, I suppose, leave it in. Um,
but but the important thing to know that out of
nowhere in the past decade, across the West, girls are
(11:17):
now teenage girls with no childhood history of gender dysphoria
are now the overwhelming demographic, claiming that they have gender
dysphoria and pushing for hormones and surgeries and getting them.
S1 (11:28):
Wow. Unbelievable. Do we know why? Why suddenly this population
and why this rapid onset? If I can put it?
In fact, you call it that rapid onset gender dysphoria.
You actually use those four initials in the book. Why?
S7 (11:42):
So this is a social contagion. It's girls sort of
communicating and, um, spreading their pain. Um, And you know,
when girls are in and people in general, when they're
in psychological pain, they look sort of to the culture
for an explanation and a much better identity today than
to say, you have, you know, um, that you're another
(12:04):
white girl is to find cover in an LGBTQ identity
at the same time these girls are they are in pain.
And whereas in prior generations they might have explained their
pain as I'm so fat, if only I weren't so fat,
you know, that sort of thing. Today they say, oh,
it's that I'm that I'm so imperfectly feminine. I'm not
really a girl. I'm meant to be a boy.
S1 (12:25):
Wow. But it's self-identifying. But it's also self-diagnosis. Now, that,
to me, is a death trap. Talk to me about that.
S7 (12:34):
So when you go into a Planned Parenthood clinic or
any gender clinic across the country, of which there are
now many, you effectively self-diagnose, there's not even a therapist
who needs to agree with your diagnosis of gender dysphoria. you,
you say you are. You have gender dysphoria. You sign
a waiver essentially, and you are given testosterone that day.
(12:56):
This is a scheduled three narcotic. Um, sorry, schedule three
controlled substance. It is. It leads to, you know, irreversible damage.
And and girls are deciding themselves that that is their diagnosis.
S1 (13:12):
Uh, and I just want to pause. So I make
sure what you just said trickles down into the ears
of our listeners and lands in their heart. You can
go on day one, make the declaration, be prescribed a
class three drug, and you can start taking it with
irreparable damage to go to the title of your book.
How is there not a board of ethics, a board
(13:32):
of review, any kind of oversight? You got a law degree.
You know you have to take ethics class. You know
that lawyers have to be reviewed and keep up with
their credentials. How are we dispensing these drugs without oversight
and hyper accountability?
S7 (13:45):
You know, unfortunately, the activists have been very successful in
intimidating and altering the standards and intimidating doctors who would
not want to go along so that all the major
medical professional organizations have adopted a so-called affirmative care standard,
which means that it's now the doctor's job to agree
with the patient's diagnosis, specifically with gender dysphoria.
S1 (14:10):
Are stunning. So let me put this out there. And
it seems sort of rudimentary and pedantic on one level,
but I think it speaks to the core issue here, self-diagnosis.
We've changed the name. So you have gender dysphoria. Now
what if you had body dysmorphic disorder? I do not
believe I should have these legs. I do believe I
should be in a wheelchair. Bona fide affirmed cases. What
(14:32):
physician do you know will cut off a patient's legs
to accommodate? Why do we do it here?
S7 (14:37):
It's a good question. You know, when you destroy. When
you take off a young girl's breasts. And by the way,
in age 16, you know, surgeons across the country are
taking off All are performing double mastectomies, what they call
top surgery on young girls. A girl, even without a
parent's approval or even a therapist's note. You're destroying a
biological capacity.
S1 (14:59):
Unbelievable. And that's just the top surgery in the research
that you did of these girls in this target group.
Because we're in Washington, right? We'd like to talk about
a lot of stats and figures. How many then go
on to make the choice to do bottom surgery as well.
Do you know?
S7 (15:12):
It's very small. I quote it in the book, I
think around three, 3%. They're not. The thing to know
is they're not really interested in becoming men. They just
want to escape womanhood.
S1 (15:22):
Exactly. And that, I think, speaks to the disparaging difference
between top and bottom surgery, because it is this lost.
Who am I if I if I do something to
the outside, I'm going to give order and definition and
purpose to the inside. Now again, I'm talking and this
is what you do in the book. You don't talk
about the adult transgender population. Your focus is specifically on
these girls. Pre-Teen, uh, predominantly you're looking at 10 to
(15:45):
14 in that age bracket group, but how many of
them walk away saying that was a great choice? If
the men generally 100 years ago tended to outgrow this,
that it was a temporary. Would we see that same
pattern if left untreated? Will we see that same pattern
in young girls?
S7 (16:02):
Well, first of all, I don't believe these girls necessarily
have typical gender dysphoria at all. So, unsurprisingly, we're seeing
huge numbers of regret already. We don't we won't know
the full numbers yet for a while, because this is
a new phenomenon. But we are already seeing a very
large and fast growing population just from the social media
(16:23):
accounts they now have, um, talking to each other about
their regret are very, very large and very fast growing. Um,
and part of the reason we don't it's hard to
get the actual numbers, of course, is because they don't
go back to their original surgeons with the regret. They
have to go to a new set of doctors.
S1 (16:42):
Exactly. And who's going to track that in the patient
to see that? Wow. Oh. So much. Abigail, again, thank
you for a full hour of your time because there's
so much to discuss. This stunningly important book is called
Irreversible Damage The Transgender Craze seducing our Daughters again. You're
going to hear me use this word a lot. It
takes somebody with a lot of chutzpah, a lot of
courage to be able to write a book like this.
(17:03):
So maybe a clinician, a clinician, a physician, a parent,
an educator will then likewise have the same courage to say, no,
I cannot be complicit in a being a part of
this irreversible damage. Back after this. We are talking with
(17:32):
Abigail Schrier, who has written the brave new book Irreversible
Damage The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters. And she takes
a long, hard look at a particular demographic that seems
to be very much the prey in this hunt to
change hearts and minds in our country. So you talked
before about bulimia and cutting and that sort of thing.
And Abigail, you know, common sense says, well, those are challenging.
(17:54):
And any mom of any daughter who's ever had those
issues knows that there's a lot of time spent in
prayer and angst and agony and clinicians and sometimes in
hospitalizations and outpatient therapy, etc. but the end game would
be that you'd get over this, that that would be
in the rearview mirror at some point in that girl's life.
And that would be that was who she was then.
But that's not who she is now. Talk to me.
(18:16):
Your title is not an a cavalier choice of words.
It's done with purpose, and it's succinct. What irreversible damage
is done to girls in this stage? You talked about
the testosterone. Obviously, if you get a double mastectomy, your
chances of being able to nurse a child in the
future are taken away. I guess you could get reconstructive surgery.
You note that very few go on to get bottom surgery,
(18:37):
but what sorts of other damage are caused in this choice?
S7 (18:42):
Well, infertility is one of the big ones because that's
where the testosterone leads. Very often it causes uterine atrophy
and it can lead to endometrial cancer, which is why
a prophylactic hysterectomy is often recommended after five years on it.
But there's something else, too. And this is maybe the
most significant. I mean, aside from the fact that we
(19:02):
don't know what long term testosterone use does to a
girl's body, there's something else, too. Is that, um, you know,
these girls aren't suffering from typical gender dysphoria, so they're
not leading good lives. They're not happy. They're not satisfied
by medical transition. So what we're seeing is a lot
(19:22):
of torment and a lot of regret.
S1 (19:24):
Abigail, how much comorbidity is tied into this? In other words,
the exterior challenge of I'm not a female, I'm a male,
and I'm going to go to the clinic and I'm
going to get the testosterone. That's all external. But what
about the non-diagnostic aspects of this? There have to be
some other components here.
S7 (19:42):
Sure. anxiety and depression are really big comorbidities. Very common
because these girls are in a lot of are really suffering,
they're in pain. And part of the reason that they, um,
initially like, uh, testosterone is because, um, testosterone actually suppresses
anxiety and it delivers euphoria. So they feel great and
(20:06):
can't wait to tell their friends to go on it.
S1 (20:09):
Wow. Unbelievable. So let me go back to what you
said before, which I thought was interesting. You did, by
my count. What was it? Close to 5000 interviews. Right.
To put this book together. And when you talk to
the parents of a lot of these girls, you said
that politically, if you were to put them on a spectrum,
that they would be progressive. I don't know if you
researched by talking to people who would be on the
conservative side of the spectrum, but would the parental response
(20:32):
have been any different? So in other words, how does
a parent's progressive politics play into a decision a child
may or may not have made?
S7 (20:40):
So so I connected. Yeah. Nearly 200 interviews and and
I'll tell you how politics plays in, you know, these
parents that I interviewed who were politically who are generally
politically progressive. They were very, very open minded people. They
were very concerned parents, but they were very open and
very open minded. And unfortunately, it kind of got used
(21:01):
against them because very often when the girl originally said
she was pansexual and this happened, the response was something like, oh,
that's okay, honey. Well, you know, would you like to
go to a pride parade? We can we can take
you there. We can do whatever we can to support you.
And then the girl turned on, you know, sort of
kicked things up a notch and decided, actually, mom, I'm really.
(21:23):
I'm not even a girl. I'm trans. And that's usually
when the the moms got scared.
S1 (21:30):
So. Wow, there's so much here. Let me just linger
as a mom for a minute. So in other words,
out of their parenting style, there tended to be a
more of a whatever you want Affirmation. Keep going in
that direction. Now I'm going to ask this without it
being a leading question. Counselor. How do you what should
the parent have done to respond? In other words, if
(21:52):
you get a clinic that will give you testosterone on
the day of and you get a parent who says, hey,
anything goes, I'm here for you, honey. Whatever you want. Um,
how in the end does that serve? Or is that
a component in the irreversible damage?
S7 (22:06):
So, um, I, you know, I have to say, even
though most of the parents I talked to were politically progressive,
I think the more significant thing about the parents across
the political spectrum is their generation. This is Gen X
and Gen X. Parents are more likely to introduce therapy
to their daughters very quickly, whenever they're in pain or distress.
(22:28):
And the problem is a lot of these therapists are
pushing this agenda very hard. They are affirmative therapists, and
they are encouraging the daughter on a on a very
bad path. Um, and and so when, when a, when
a parent is told to go along with this some
very often it solidifies the idea of this other boy
(22:50):
identity in a child's mind. But it really it's not
the parent's fault. They are given so many, so much
misinformation and frankly, they're being so coerced by therapists who
who trot out a suicide threat if they don't go
along with the with the daughter's announcement.
S1 (23:07):
Yes. And this goes to the point I made earlier, Abigail,
about there really is so much compassion in this, because
what you're saying in some respects is the parents are
hearing the quote, professionals, the professionals have bought this hook,
line and sinker, either for fear of retribution or it
is part of their worldview. And so mom and dad
don't want to go against the, quote, professionals. And as
a result of that, they actually fostered this self-identity of
(23:29):
I'm not a girl, I'm a boy. When we come back,
I want to talk some more about the irreversible damage,
and I want to talk about why Doctor Littman Doctor
Lisa Littman is so germane to the work that you
did in irreversible damage, and how that became sort of
a springboard, if you will, for much of what you're
writing about. The book is called Irreversible Damage. I cannot
believe I'm halfway through this conversation already. There's a ton
(23:52):
of stuff in this book I know I'm not going
to get to, and maybe that's not so bad. Maybe
that's a reason for you to pick up the book
and get it. Irreversible damage. The transgender craze. Seducing our daughters.
More with Abigail Schreier right after this. Friends, this is
(24:28):
Janet Parshall, and I want to take a moment to
remind you that today's program is prerecorded so our phone
lines aren't open. But I sure do appreciate your spending
the hour with us. And thanks so much and enjoy
the rest of the program. There are dozens of talk
shows that address politics, culture and technology, but in the
market is committed to bringing biblical truths to every facet
(24:50):
of life. When you financially support in the market as
a partial partner, you're helping people to better understand how
their faith intersects with their daily lives. Become a partial
partner today and receive exclusive benefits prepared just for you.
Call eight 7758 or go online to in the market
with Janet Parshall. If you are just joining us, the
(25:11):
warmest of welcomes. I'm glad you're here. And boy, I'm
glad that you're going to be able to hear the
first half of this program by going to in the
market with Janet Parshall. Left hand side, bunch of words.
Look for these two past programs. Click it on Download
This Hour in its entirety, or any of the two
hours we do every day going back a full year.
And you're going to want to listen to this program
(25:32):
in its entirety. What a challenging and important conversation. A
brave conversation And Abigail Schreier has written this book. She's
a freelance writer for The Wall Street Journal. She loves
to write, particularly about law and culture. No surprise there,
because she picked up a degree from Yale Law School.
But now she's influencing in the court of public opinion.
And I'm so glad. And the book that she's written
(25:53):
is a firestorm. It's called Irreversible Damage The Transgender Craze
Seducing Our Daughters. And in this book, she, with pinpoint specificity,
really looks at a particular demographic young pre-teen, young teen
girls and why they are being manipulated. And this phenomenon
of what's happening with these children, and I do call
them children, by the way. In fact, one of the
most stunning things you said before, Abigail, is that a
(26:15):
girl self-identifies, by the way, you can't self-identify diabetes, you
can't self-identify, um, you know, heart disease. But boy, you
can self-identify that. You've decided that you're in the wrong
body and there's no checks and balances, no ethical board
oversight on that. You trot on down to a clinic,
you get testosterone boom. That day, you can start it.
Which raises a secondary question If so many of these
(26:38):
grilled up ending top surgery, which is the euphemism for
a double mastectomy, do you have to have mom and
dad's involved? I mean, these are not, you know, this
these are not what the law would call emancipated minors.
They're unemancipated. So can they get that kind of surgery
without Mom or Dad's approval?
S7 (26:52):
Yes. They can. Um, you know, I, you know, certainly
girls as young as 16 that that, you know, there
there are many surgeons who will do that. Some require
you to be 18. But once you hit 18, you know,
lots and lots of surgeons become options. Um, even without
parental approval or even a therapist note.
S1 (27:12):
You know, it's stunning to me. And again, I'm just
going to speak just plain English here. Being a common man,
I couldn't take my granddaughter to the mall and get
her ears pierced without a having an accompanying adult and
be signing a waiver that's getting her ears pierced. And
if I wanted to, the earrings could come out in
the ears or the holes could grow back. But you
don't have to get parental oversight or a guardian ad
(27:32):
litem anybody, to be able to say before you go
on that testosterone, which could end up with a hysterectomy
five years from now, or, um, a double mastectomy that
could take away multiple options for you in the future.
But I got to get a waiver signed when I
go to get her ears pierced at the mall. What,
have we lost? Our minds.
S7 (27:54):
So the thing to know is that the age of
medical consent varies by state. In Oregon it is 15.
So you can get all kinds of things at 15,
including a double mastectomy.
S1 (28:04):
That just breaks my heart. That is so anti-woman. It's
just it's stunning to me. Let me go back to
Doctor Lisa Lipman, an ob gyn. You note that she
became a public health researcher and a mom. Why is
she germane to your book, Irreversible Damage?
S7 (28:18):
Because she was the researcher that started it all. You know,
she was noticing in I think it was 2016, she
was noticing that there are a startling number of adolescents
in her social media feed were coming out as transgender.
And she knew this was way, you know, far, far
more than prevalence data would have predicted. So she wondered why. Um,
and and the more research she did, she she realized
(28:39):
it looked a lot more like anorexia. It looked more
because she was it was concentrated in these friend groups. Um,
which it shouldn't be. You would think it would be
more distributed in the population. So once she did more research,
she she decided to conduct a study. And that academic study,
which was peer reviewed, appeared in an academic journal. And
(28:59):
it caused a firestorm because the activists didn't like it.
S1 (29:04):
Wow. Abigail, as you're and again, you love to do
opinion pieces, this is objective investigative reporting, irreversible damage. One
wonders how if you if you're an academician, if you're
a scholar, if you're a specialist in an area of
discipline that requires graduate level education, law, medicine, whatever, the
idea that you would acquiesce and give up what you
(29:26):
believe to be good science, common sense, best interests of
the child, best interests of the patient because the tsunami
of political correctness has swept through the country? Are we
that malleable as a culture, as a people?
S7 (29:38):
You know, unfortunately we are. I mean, Lisa Littman, for
whatever it's worth, is a political progressive. She's not, you know,
a terribly religious person. Um, secular. And she did this
only because of her integrity and her scientific interest and her,
you know, dedication to investigating a mental health issue facing
teenage girls. That was it. But she was treated and castigated,
(30:03):
even losing a job over it. Brown University pulled the
press release for her academic study from its website. I mean,
she was treated like a bigot, which is what she
was accused of being.
S1 (30:14):
Mhm. Stunning, stunning. So again, I'm a typical firstborn. So
I love to ask the why questions. Where and how
and why is this arising. In other words where is
the energy, the inertia, the power, the authority to marginalize
someone like Doctor Littman coming from activists, yes. But are
they collective? Do they march under the banner of one name?
(30:34):
Or is that thinking far too simplistic?
S7 (30:36):
The trans activists are an extremely exercised group, which, by
the way, I must say they do not represent transgender adults,
many of whom are very, very lovely people. But the
activists are extremely energised, extremely effective, and and they seem
to be winning. They are shutting down conversation about the
bodies and mental health of teenage girls.
S1 (30:58):
It's this is why I've said I've used the word
courage so many times. And many of the people who
endorse your book, Abigail, used the same word as well because, uh,
one hopes and prays that your career isn't marginalized because
you've dared to shine a bright light of kindness, compassion,
and truth on a particularly argumentative subject. I want to
talk about some of the purveyors of this, and you
take us right into the classrooms of America, and you refer,
(31:20):
and I thank you for making the distinction between the
general person who would be categorized as transgender and the activists.
Those tend to live on the edges anyway of any movement.
So take me to the classroom. What influence are they
having in the classroom? Because I'm guessing that the power
of the bully pulpit in a classroom is impacting this
demographic of preteen and teen girls.
S7 (31:41):
So I did a real investigation to the California public
school system, because we have a very I live in California,
and we have a very pervasive and extremely radical gender
identity curriculum set of curricula, and they are a model
for the rest of the country, and they're used elsewhere
in the country. And what I learned was a few things,
but one of the most startling was the how much
(32:04):
the activists were coming right into the classroom. So activists
are supplying the curricula. They're doing teacher trainings. They are
coaching after school gay straight alliance clubs. And they are
absolutely shaping how gender is taught from kindergarten up in
California schools.
S1 (32:21):
And LA unified, of course, the biggest district in the country.
So they can do it there. They can do it anywhere.
But there has to be at least an ideological linkage
between the teachers union, the administrators and these activists. Right?
Because they they're not barnstorming into the classroom. They're being invited.
So this is a pernicious worldview that seems to be
an underpinning out there.
S7 (32:39):
That's right. The teachers who don't agree were, of course,
the ones who helped me, you know, uncover the documentation
of this. But but by and large, the the teachers
are either woke themselves or they're very, very intimidated and
afraid to speak up and with good reason.
S1 (32:56):
So Abigail and I could spend hours in the classroom.
Your chapter on schools is powerfully important and significant to this.
Let me go to the practitioners I've seen, particularly people
that tend to go and become clinicians, psychiatrists, psychologists. They tend,
if I can use a biblical phrase, they tend to
be mercy givers. They really care for people. So there's
a compassionate call to get into this in the first place.
(33:19):
Why would you acquiesce? Why would you silence yourself? Why
would you self-censor if you said, honey, I can't do that,
I'm not going to prescribe that. Let's see what your
other issues are. You've told me that you're depressed. You
told me that you're anxious a lot of the time.
Let's start digging into some of those before we discover
whether or not you identify as someone of the opposite sex.
That's compassionate care.
S7 (33:41):
Right? So. But the thing to know is that 19
states in America now have conversion therapy bans, which includes
gender identity, which means therapists can lose their license if
they don't go, if they aren't careful and don't go
along with this. And when I say careful, they have
to be so careful with what they say in terms
of getting on board with the idea that a young
(34:02):
girl in front of them is really a boy, and
really finding her true self, even if that's not what
they believe.
S1 (34:08):
Wow, Abigail, you went to Yale. You come from a
family of lawyers. You write about the law. That's law.
That's law 101. That's coerced speech. How can those states
allow that?
S7 (34:19):
That's a great question, because you are absolutely affecting the
speech and the judgment and absolutely speech is so chilled
in this country in so many ways. Um, one of
it is through these conversion therapy bans. I agree. And
another way is social media. Even parents are terrified that
if they don't go along with this with their daughters,
they will be posted about, you know, and on social
(34:41):
media they could lose their jobs.
S1 (34:44):
So this is a biggie. There's big giants out there
that want to stop the idea of compassionate science based
care out there. When we come back, Abigail, two things
definitely I want to cover. Number one, I want to roll.
I want to know the role that social media plays
on this. You, over and over and over again refer
to YouTube stars, YouTube sensations. Um, I'm guessing this particular
demographic doesn't live without their iPhones. So the the door,
(35:08):
if you will, the the lock is open and the
flooding of this ideology would come into a young person's life,
particularly if they're already dealing with other issues. And they
watch some YouTube star who says, I was a boy,
now I'm a girl, or vice versa. And they go, aha,
I've just had my phenomenon. That's my problem as well.
I'll just get upper surgery, get on testosterone and all
my problems will go away. The other thing is you're
(35:30):
very encouraging because there is something Mom and Dad can do.
So I want to talk about that when we get back.
This book is a must. It's called irreversible Damage The
Transgender Craze seducing our Daughters. Learn more at my website.
In the market with Janet parshall.org. Abigail has a fabulous
Twitter sphere. Follow her. I've got a link so that
you can do that from now on. Back after this.
(36:04):
The book I hope and pray will cause a cultural tsunami.
It's called Irreversible Damage The Transgender Craze Seducing Our Daughters,
written by Abigail Schreier, who is a freelance writer for
The Wall Street Journal. Her specialty is writing about law
and culture, and I'm so very grateful that this courageous
woman has decided to write this book. Whether or not
it's politically correct, it's factually accurate, and above all else.
(36:27):
And I tell you this because that was my takeaway
from the book. It is replete with compassion. If you
really care about people, if you care about our young
girls in this country, you want to rescue them from
the spider's web. And that's exactly what it is. Part
of the silk in that web is social media. You
write that Reddit, Tumblr, Instagram, YouTube are endless supplies of mentors.
Talk to me about that, Abigail.
S7 (36:48):
So one of the things I learned from parents is
that you don't. A teen doesn't need to be searching
for a gender, a transgender influencer videos in order to
stumble across them. Very often, girls would come to them
through art sharing websites or, you know, fanfiction, other kinds
of things. And then these videos start to queue up
(37:11):
and they are extremely, well, extremely well produced. They are
extremely charismatic and engaging. Transgender stars, you know, you know,
biological girls. And what they promise is that a course
of testosterone will fix your body. It will fix everything
that's wrong with you right now. And, um, it's very compelling.
(37:32):
It's a very compelling presentation. And and it's it's working.
S1 (37:38):
Yeah. Clearly. Clearly it's effective. So my question is this
because we talked earlier about comorbidity, which we know is
there in so many cases, if not all. So she
takes the testosterone. She redefines herself. She thinks this is
going to be the answer to her problems. And remember
Mom and Dad, we're going to scare you to death
because we're going to tell you that she's going to
attempt suicide or take her own life successfully if you
(38:00):
don't support her in this. But there's a flip side
to that coin, Abigail. She takes the testosterone. The co-morbidity
is not dealt with. The anxiety, the depression, and now
deep seated grief is a part of all of this.
And she becomes suicidal. Anybody talking about those stats?
S7 (38:16):
About the suicide stats?
S1 (38:18):
Yes. After the fact? Yes.
S7 (38:20):
Oh, after the fact. So we don't know. Um, I
can only tell you that the suicidal ideation rates are
very high even after transition. And with this population, there's
no proof that transition is helping. Um, is alleviating suicidality.
But there's something else, too, that I want to say
when we talked about the influencers, which is that, you know,
(38:42):
these girls are very lonely. Kids today spend a lot
less time with each other in person and a lot
more time online. And what that means is questions about
who they are and how uncomfortable they feel in their bodies.
And are they really the right kind of girl and
all that stuff? Rather than taking them to a girlfriend,
they take them to the internet, where a lot of
influencers are ready to tell them that if they don't
(39:04):
feel perfectly feminine, they're probably a boy.
S1 (39:07):
Wow. Wow. Abigail. Woman to woman, do you feel perfectly
feminine every day of your life?
S7 (39:15):
No, of course it's ridiculous. If anybody, you know the
number of women who who say, if I had known
there was an option, I would have taken it.
S1 (39:27):
Exactly. Oh my goodness. So in all the research that
you did all the interviews, did you have the opportunity
to talk to girls who had made this decision and
had regret?
S7 (39:38):
Yes, I did. I talked to a number of detransitioners,
these really remarkable young women and what they what they
tell is they, you know, they really tell a very
similar story. These are precocious young girls. They are so bright.
But they hit they hit puberty and things get hard.
And all of a sudden they don't feel like they
fit in with a group of girls. And right when
they're struggling, they start spending a lot of time on
(39:59):
social media, and they find that the one way to
to belong is to declare one of these identities.
S1 (40:06):
Mhm. Wow. Hunger. There's a heart cry there. If we're
really listening with the ears on our heart. There's such
a heart cry obviously. Maybe because I'm a mom and
a grandmom. But I love the fact that you give
us literally points on what we can do to find
our way back. Talk to me about some of those.
S7 (40:24):
So one of the most important is to get your
your daughters off social media. Um, obviously it depends how
old they are, but if they're if, you know, younger
and it's a possibility. Absolutely. We know that social media
is causing them anxiety and depression like we've never seen before.
And it is absolutely opening your daughters to unbelievably bad influences. Um,
(40:46):
the second thing to do is to oppose gender education
and gender ideology being pushed in the schools. There is
no reason we can't show compassion for transgender students without
indoctrinating an entire student body in gender confusion, which is
what we're doing right now. And the third big piece
of advice I have is to remember that you're the parent.
(41:09):
You do not have to go along with every self-identity
proclamation your daughter comes up with. It's important to remember
that she may just be she may think she's pansexual
or trans, but she's also 12 or 13 or 14.
And you're the parent for a reason.
S1 (41:24):
Yes, yes. Here, here. And amen. You talk about it's
important to reintroduce privacy into the home I love this
explain why.
S7 (41:32):
Because parents are sharing so much about their daughters. And
let me just say, I've been guilty of this, too. Um,
and I realize that it it I didn't realize until
I did the, um, you know, research for this book
how much pressure it puts on on their kids they
feel locked into because everyone in the world is asking
(41:53):
them about whatever they post online. And this includes, you know,
announcements about sexuality or gender identity. They feel like they
can't walk it back. And so this habit of sharing
everything private about yourself immediately with the with this, you know,
giant audience is really harming our young girls.
S1 (42:13):
Yes, yes. Wow. Mom and dad, you are getting such
invaluable counsel in this conversation. I find it also fascinating
and thrilling and maybe because I is one. But you say,
don't be afraid to admit that it's wonderful to be
a girl. Why is that important?
S7 (42:28):
Because these girls don't know it. They're hearing so many
negative messages. They're seeing very, very violent porn on the internet,
which is common. They're seeing women choking. They're being choked.
They are. They are terrified of what womanhood means. And
they don't have any positive indication that being a woman
having children and, you know, enjoying life as a woman
(42:50):
is a great thing.
S1 (42:53):
Yeah. Amen to that. Abigail. You're right. And I got
tears in my eyes when I read this part that
you met up with a dear friend whom you loved
to have lunch. You were looking forward to seeing her,
but there was an £800 elephant in the room. And
of course, it was the book. And when you finally
talked about the book and broached the subject, she really
pushed back. And it was hard. Do you have any
(43:13):
regrets at all about writing this book?
S8 (43:16):
No, I don't. I think, I think look, I just
wrote the truth. So if I didn't write it, someone
else would have.
S1 (43:23):
Ah, but you did. Abigail, you got there first, and
you said it with power, and you said it with eloquence.
So I have a new hero, and I want to
thank you for what you've done. Let me tell my
friends again. The book is called Irreversible Damage The Transgender
Craze seducing. I told you that was the operative word,
seducing our daughters. Written by Abigail Schrier. It is an
absolutely fabulous book. I've said it before. I'll say it
(43:45):
again in my classroom. This is a must read. Moms
and dads, wake up, look well to the ways of
your household. Pay attention and get them off their iPhone. Okay?
Thanks so much Abigail for the gift of your time.
Thank you for listening. We'll see you next time on
In the Market with Janet Parshall.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!