April 24, 2025 • 44 mins
How do we lay a spiritual foundation that your children will build on for the rest of their days? Dennis and Barbara Rainey will draw on their expertise gleaned through their years of ministry to offer advice on how to help your kids discover who they are in Christ, live wisely and honorably, foster godly connections, and understand God's purpose for their lives.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:00):
Hi friends, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
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(00:20):
written by pastor Jack Graham. I love it because he
really does recognize the fact that biblical literacy is declining,
and that a lot of people think that the Bible
is too complicated, that it's written for pastors or for scholars.
And yet, in truth, Jesus is there from Genesis to Revelation.
And that book was written for every single one of us.
We just need a better way to know how to
study God's Word. And that's exactly what the Jesus Book
(00:42):
is all about. So when you give a gift of
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(01:04):
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In the market with Janet Parshall. Scroll to the bottom
of the page. Thanks so much for letting me take
a moment of your time. And now please enjoy the broadcast.
(01:28):
Hi friends, this is Janet Parshall. Thanks so much for
choosing to spend the next hour with us. Today's program
is prerecorded so our phone lines are not open. But
thanks so much for being with us and enjoy the broadcast.
S2 (01:38):
Congratulations, Chris. It's a boy. He weighs in at £81. What? Oh, uh, sorry, £8. One.
Would you like to hold your son? Yes, please. Here
you go. Smile. Honey, let's put that straight on Facebook. Goodbye. No, wait.
Where's the manual? How do we. I mean, I don't
(02:01):
know how to. Oh, at first, he didn't know what
he was supposed to do. Most of it was crying
and then changing you. It took a while to get there,
but now, as he grows. I'm learning how to parent
(02:22):
as I go. Parenting is such a lovely thing. Celebrate
the super change you make. Parenting is such a lovely thing.
Celebrate the super change you make. The super change you make.
S1 (02:48):
Oh, guess what we're talking about this hour. That was
a big fat clue. Parenting. The art of parenting. Hello, friends.
Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. Parenting is
such a lovely thing. Okay, so let me guess. You
have three kids pulling at your pant leg right now.
It's not dinner time. You don't want to have a
bunch of juice boxes swallowed before dinner. You want them
(03:09):
to get some space in their little tummies for veggies.
They're tired, they're worn out, they're crabby and all together.
Now let's sing parenting a love. Oh, okay. Yeah. Parenting
is on the job training, and it's tough. And yet
it's the most high calling some of us will ever get.
And it is an important task. It is that amazing task.
(03:29):
God puts these treasures in our life and then says,
now train them in the nurture and the admonition of me.
Tough stuff. But I praise God that he raises up
wonderful teachers like Dennis and Barbara Rainey. We know who
Dennis and Barbara are, don't we? They're the founders of
Family Life, a crew ministry, or the ministry formerly known
as Campus Crusade for Christ. Yes and no. It goes
(03:51):
through my head every time the artist formerly known as Prince.
Pretty soon we won't even have to say. Formerly known as.
It'll just be crew and we'll all get that. Dennis
host of course family life today and Barber created ever
thine home. Have you seen these things fabulous. Their decorative
products that we can put around our home that really
let people know that Jesus is Lord in this particular house?
Fabulous stuff. Well, they host Weekend to Remember conferences all
(04:14):
around the world, and together the two of them have
written more than 50 books, including the best selling Moments
Together for couples. And now they bring us their latest
book called the Art of parenting. And eventually I will
open the phone lines. But boy, I got a lot
of questions I want to ask first. Dennis and Barbara,
the warmest of welcomes. Thank you for the gift of
your time today.
S3 (04:33):
It's great to be here.
S4 (04:34):
Thank you Janet, it's great to be on your show.
S3 (04:36):
Did you write that song, Janet?
S1 (04:37):
No, but isn't it perfect? Oh my word. It just.
S3 (04:42):
It really is. I was going that's an interesting start
to the program. That's pretty cool. Way to go, Janet.
S1 (04:48):
I think you. Dennis. That was amazing. Well, I have
to ask you. And I was thinking about this all
day long because you get married, you fall in love.
And as God chose in your life, he brought you
the blessing of kids. And when that first baby came,
I mean, and I love open, honest, transparent conversation. We're
talking to folks all over the country, just like you
do Dennis, on a regular basis. And a lot of
people think because we sit in front of a microphone,
(05:10):
we got it all together. It's all perfect. It's absolutely unblemished.
And so I want to hear from you when that
baby was put in your arms and you started the
role of parenting, I'd love to hear from both of you.
What was your biggest surprise? What was your biggest challenge?
S4 (05:25):
Well, I think I'll start. I think our biggest surprise
was how much time one little tiny thing person took.
It was a 24 hour, seven day a week job
that I didn't realize it was going to take that
much time, so I was I was very surprised by
how all consuming one little tiny person could be.
S3 (05:45):
And I, on the other hand, nearly passed out while
Barbara was giving birth.
S4 (05:50):
He did. That's not just a line.
S3 (05:51):
That's not that's not a spoof. I really did, Janet.
I'm sorry, but when they placed my daughter in my arms,
I have to tell you, I really did have this desire. Janet.
I wanted to roll her over and find the instructions.
S1 (06:06):
Yes. Yes.
S3 (06:07):
Are they on the back side? Where? How do you
do this thing called parenting? I don't think anybody is
truly prepared us to be parents. In fact, it's interesting.
George Barna did little research. He indicated that eight out
of ten today feel like this generation that's raising parents,
(06:27):
millennials feel like it's much more difficult to raise a
child today than than it was for their parents.
S1 (06:33):
Mhm. Wow. Are you surprised by that?
S4 (06:35):
I'm not surprised by that because I think every generation
faces new circumstances, new situations and new pressures for their
kids that the previous generation didn't. So I think every
generation has it harder than the previous generation does. And
I just think that's a part of life because life
is changing. It's constantly evolving. And so what parents are
(06:58):
facing in this generation is different than what we faced
in ours. And ours was different than our parents and
so on and so forth. So that doesn't really surprise me.
S3 (07:08):
And I'm looking at our grandkids. We got a few
of them and I'm looking at the issues they're facing. Janet,
there's no question the issues being thrown at them in
elementary school, junior high, high school, long before they get
to adulthood because they're not adults. When they're in the
teen years, they're still growing up and developing the whatever.
(07:29):
The portion of the brain is that helps them become
a man or a woman. But I think it's a
challenging day to be a be a parent as never before.
S1 (07:38):
Yeah, I heartily concur. Dennis, let me pick up on
what you said. And, Barbara, I think you're wise. Every generation,
I think, is more difficult than the preceding generation. So
when you talk about some of the challenges, Dennis, what
went through my mind when you said that immediately was
the directive for us to raise our children in the
nurture and the admonition of the Lord has always been there.
That's not an opt in, opt out clause for parents
(07:58):
who love the Lord. That is a directive on how
we're supposed to take care of our kids. But I'm thinking,
in this post-truth age in which we live, we almost
have to teach them sooner and more intensely on some
of these spiritual issues, because the challenges are challenges we've
never had to face before. I mean, my word having
to talk to an elementary school child about transgenderism, it's
(08:20):
not a discussion I'd ever want to have, let alone
have it with a six year old.
S3 (08:23):
Yeah. Romans 16 verse 19 says, but I want you.
Paul was speaking to his spiritual children. He says, I
want you to be wise in what is good and
innocent in what is evil. I think that's a parent's assignment.
Help them to be have wisdom about the good and
to be innocent of experiencing evil. That's a challenge in
this culture, boy.
S1 (08:44):
Well said and what a way to start our conversation.
Dennis and Barbara Rainey have graciously agreed to spend the
entire hour with us and to encourage us. By the way,
I love it when parents can get a time out
and sort of encourage one another on what it means
to be a parent and how we can do it
in a way that honors the Lord, which should be
our goal after all. So their newest book is called
the Art of parenting. We're going to talk more about
(09:05):
it right after this.
S2 (09:07):
Celebrate the change. Celebrate the super change. Celebrate the super
change you made.
S1 (09:25):
Did you know that Jesus appears in every book of
the Bible from Genesis to Revelation? That's why I've chosen
the Jesus Book as this month's truth tool. Learn to read, understand,
and apply God's Word for yourself and how to know
Jesus as never before. As for your copy of the
Jesus Book, when you give a gift of any amount
to in the market, call eight 7758, that's eight 7758
(09:46):
or go to in the market with Janet Parshall.
S5 (09:56):
Train. Shine 22. Six. Train up a child. Train. Train
up a child. Child. Child. Train up a child. In
(10:18):
the way that he should go. Train up a child
in the way that he should go.
S1 (10:24):
Well, there it is. The biblical directive. But nobody ever
said that. That would be easy. So I'm very grateful
that we have wonderful teachers among us, like Dennis and
Barbara Rainey, who are the founders of Family Life. And
Dennis hosts, as we all know, Family Life Radio. We
love it. Family life today. Such good teachers. And I
love the way that Dennis and Barbara will host conferences
around the world for couples and teach them how to
(10:46):
look well to the ways of their household. And it
follows suit, does it not, that of the many, many
books that they've written that they would do one on parenting,
the Art of parenting. You start the book out in
a very important way, and that is we are all fallen, fallen,
fractured earthen vessels. And that was God's plan from the beginning.
There are no perfect parents that takes a whole boatload
(11:07):
of weight off of my shoulders, and I'm sure it
does for a couple of other people listening as well.
But you start out by talking about God parenting us
that I think, oh, I wish I would have known
this when my babies were first as a part of
our nest, because if I had had that perspective, I
think it would have changed the trajectory of what I
felt my responsibility was and what my approach was to parenting.
(11:29):
So share some of your thoughts about that, because it's
comforting and liberating at the same time.
S4 (11:34):
Well, I agree, Janet, and I think one of the the,
the understandings that I finally came to and we share
this in the very beginning of the book for that
reason that you just said that is that God, as
a perfect father, never had perfect children. And when I
realized that in the process of raising our kids, a
huge weight was lifted off my shoulders, because I think
(11:55):
somehow I thought I was supposed to raise perfect kids,
or at least kids who didn't mess up very often.
Because after all, that's what I was supposed to do
as a Christian mom. But when I realized that it
was impossible for me to raise that kind of kid,
that God, the perfect God of Father in our in heaven,
his children rebelled. It just made me relax and go, okay,
(12:18):
they've got to learn to trust God on their own.
And I can trust God with their hearts because he
knows how to bring his children back to him, and
therefore he can bring my children back as well when
they wander. So I think it's important for parents to
understand that you'll not do it perfectly. You'll make all
kinds of mistakes, but God can be in the middle
(12:39):
of all of that.
S3 (12:40):
And Janet, it was the question you asked that drove
me to the scriptures in attempting to answer it and say,
what does God expect of us as parents, and I
spent the better part of a year interviewing some of
the finest Bible scholars, some of the finest mentors, coaches, counselors, pastors,
men and women from all different disciplines. And we came up,
(13:04):
Barbara and I came up with four categories that we
have built this book around. But this is how we
try to raise our kids. We felt like God deals
with us in four areas. First of all, in relationships.
What's the great commandment? Love God, love others. Secondly, he
deals with us in the area of character, helping us
(13:26):
to be wise and not a fool to choose right
and not wrong. That's the book of. That's the book
of Proverbs. Third, our identity that's both spiritual identity and
sexual identity. Keep in mind, we develop this material 28
years ago and began to field test it. And when
we first started this out on the issue of identity.
(13:47):
Sexual identity was not near the issue that it is today,
but it's front and center today. And then the final
one is mission. Every child needs direction and purpose and
needs to realize he was put here by God to
accomplish something really, really great for his kingdom. If parents
can take those four things and hold those up as
(14:09):
kind of the reading, writing, and arithmetic of raising children today,
I think they'll be better off in the long haul.
S1 (14:17):
Dennis, can I linger on that point? Because, again, that reorientation,
I think the thinking for parents in that I think
so often we think ours is about it's a world
of practicums. And yes, there's clearly a component of that.
I mean, we want to potty train our kids. We
want them to read and write. We want them to
teach them how to behave in public and how not
to tell lies, and how to respect their siblings. Should
the Lord give us more than one child? All of
(14:39):
those things. But I think so often that becomes the
primary focus of what we think our responsibility of parenting is.
It's if I can put it this way, it's all
about behavior modification rather than these four really transcendent issues
that you've talked about. It seems to me that if
we put those four issues in front of us, a
we keep the main thing, the main thing. So the
(14:59):
mission is more clearly articulated, and there's a place for grace,
and I'm not going to turn the minors in the
major as long as I'm moving toward one of those
four pillars.
S3 (15:08):
I love what you just said.
S4 (15:09):
Well said.
S3 (15:09):
It's really well said. I think we all gravitate to
all the the minutia and all the disciplines of getting
our children so that they're, they're perfect and under the people,
which they're, they're they're not perfect. Our family has one
opportunity a year to be perfect. That's the Christmas card.
S4 (15:28):
That's exactly right.
S3 (15:30):
If you take enough pictures, if you take enough pictures,
every eye will be open. Every smile will have teeth.
That's showing and and pleasant looks. But we had one child.
We could take 70, 80, 90 8090 pictures. He had
the goofiest face. He always messed up our pictures. And
(15:51):
it's only at Christmas time that we ever send a
picture of the perfect family. All of our families, every
family is broken and is in need of a savior.
That's the message children. And I want our listeners to
hear this. Children are redemptive. They can. They convince us
we can't do it on our own. That we as parents,
(16:13):
first of all, need a savior so that we then
can introduce our children to that Savior as well.
S1 (16:20):
Yeah. Wow. So again, in the spirit of transparency, I
want to go back to what you said about perfect kids,
because maybe people outside the church, those who don't yet
know the Lord as their personal savior, struggle in this area.
But I sense that in the church in particular, we
have this idea that perfection is a mandate for Christian families.
Now music is playing, and I don't want to rush
(16:40):
through that answer. But Dennis and Barbara, I'd love for
you to address that when we come back, that maybe,
as my mama used to say, get off your back.
Not my back, but get off your back a little bit.
Take a deep breath and understand that perfection is not
the goal here. I'd love for you to address that.
And then I'm going to open the phone lines, because
I know you'd love to talk to Dennis and Barbara.
Their book is called the Art of parenting. I've got
a link to FamilyLife today. Boy, I don't know about you,
(17:01):
but I'm already encouraged. My my kids are grown. But
as Barbara and Dennis tell us in the book, the
Art of parenting, that doesn't mean my job as a
parent is over by any stretch of the imagination. So
much more after this.
S6 (17:31):
If it weren't for kids, have you ever thought there
wouldn't be no Santa Claus? Or look what the stork
just brought? Thank God for kids. And we'd all live
in a quiet house without Big Bird or a Mickey mouse.
Kool-Aid on the couch. Thank God for kids.
S1 (17:55):
Well, that's the Oak Ridge boys reminding us what a
joy it is to be a parent. But it's a
high calling, and the Lord has a lot to say
in his instruction manual to us about parenting. And I'm
so glad that Dennis and Barbara Rainey reinforce what God's
Word says in their book, the Art of parenting. Dennis,
of course, hosting Family Life Today, heard all across the country,
and Dennis and Barbara speaking around the world at their
(18:16):
Weekend to Remember conferences. Dennis, let me pick up on
something I said just before the break because, again, I
think I remember Chuck Swindoll writing his book about the
problem with transparency, particularly talking about the church. And so
this idea of perfection is not only this, it's Sisyphus
in Hades, kind of an approach. No matter what you do,
you're never going to strive it. So it's an exercise
(18:37):
in frustration, futility and failure. But we have this idea,
I think, much more in the church than we do outside.
Because somehow, if we've been made perfect in Christ, therefore
we should have absolute perfection around the kitchen table. Can
you talk to me about that?
S3 (18:51):
Could I tell a story that probably is going to
offend some of your listeners? I'm sure you've never done that, Janet.
S1 (18:57):
Never, never.
S3 (18:58):
Never done that. I was with a very good friend
this past weekend, and he just confessed to me. He said,
you know, I had I had four children and each
of them wanted to get a tattoo. They wanted to
get a tat. And I told them at the point
they wanted to get one, that I would go with
them and I would get one too.
S4 (19:20):
So it had to be something that he would be
willing to get.
S3 (19:24):
Exactly, exactly. And he said there was something about that,
that three of the four never, never took me up
on it. They they came, but we ran out of
time and they got distracted on to other things. But
the youngest came to him and he said, I've got a,
I've got a tat here on my, on my calf
(19:45):
of my, my leg. And I said could I see it?
And he said, yeah. And he pulls back his pant leg.
And there is B as in boy over.
S4 (19:58):
Like a.
S3 (19:59):
P over P like a fraction. And I said, yeah.
He said, both of us have this b over p
tat that we got together. And I said, what's it mean?
He said, I want our our children to know that
bravery was to be preferred over perfection.
S1 (20:19):
Mhm.
S3 (20:20):
You know, I know some of your listeners are offended
that I've used an illustration like that. But here's the thing.
That's the call for this generation bravery to confront issues
and love with compassion and caring and to, to, to
intersect with people who are different than them, who believe
different than we do. Those are all great things to
(20:42):
teach our kids, but if we're waiting to train them
to be perfect before they do those things, it's not
going to happen.
S1 (20:48):
Not going to happen. No. And by the way, Dennis,
let me just pick up on what you said about
the idea that that might be offensive because you used
the example of the tattoo. This goes to another point
that you and Barbara make in the book, which is
there is no one size fits all formula for parenting.
And I think one of the challenges we have is
not to have this idea that we should be majoring
(21:08):
in the minors. You know, here it turns out that
there is a profound life lesson in that tattoo. Parent
may disagree with the idea of inking your skin, but
if there's a message that he'll carry the rest of
his life and it was a father and son experience
shared together, maybe for that family, for that parent child relationship,
it was exactly what needed to be done to help
him take his next step forward. As a young man
(21:29):
walking closer to the Lord. Am I right or wrong
on that?
S3 (21:32):
You're right. I mean, and here's the thing. These little
lessons show up in all kinds of places. At the
at the start of the broadcast, we talked about how
we had distilled down what the Bible teaches are are
the the responsibilities of a parent into relationships, into character, identity,
and mission. Relationships are where we start because we've got
(21:53):
to train our children in knowing how to love each other.
And then they learn how to love God because their
hearts are rebellious toward God. And we got to teach
them what to do with that rebellion. I think parents
have to model what it looks like to resolve conflict
and to admit they're wrong and ask for forgiveness. And
(22:15):
and Barbara did this one Thanksgiving with our family. Janet,
that was a memorable event that each of our kids remember.
S4 (22:23):
And because it's not just teaching our children to, as
you mentioned earlier, Janet, to have proper behavior, but parents
also have to model for them what it looks like
to be a believer, what it looks like to walk
with Christ. And that doesn't just mean going to church
and carrying your Bible and sitting there Sunday after Sunday.
It means modeling a relationship with Christ in front of
(22:45):
your kids so that they see what it looks like.
And so what Dennis is referring to is, as we
raised our kids, we ask for forgiveness. Every time we
made a mistake, we were constantly. Sometimes I felt like
I asked my kids to forgive me multiple times every
day because I wanted them. We wanted them to know
what it was like to confess that they had made
(23:06):
a mistake. When you can't admit that you've made a
mistake of any kind, then your kid has got a
pride problem or you as a parent have a pride problem.
But we also but I also, I should say, wanted
my kids to know that it wasn't just the the
little mistakes that I made throughout the day, that I
had a heart problem, that I had a sin issue
(23:27):
in my life that I needed God's forgiveness for. And
so one Thanksgiving, I apologized to my children for being
a sinner, that I needed God's grace, that I needed
his redemption. I wanted them to know that I knew
that I was broken and in need of a Savior.
And so therefore, I wanted them to know that they
also have a broken heart. Who needs to be redeemed
(23:49):
as well?
S1 (23:50):
Oh, that's wise, wise counsel. Is it just me, or
is this hour flying by? Dennis and Barbara Rainey are
with us co founders of Family Life. Dennis host of
Family Life Today. And they join us because their newest
book is called the Art of parenting. All that is
linked on my website at in the market with Janet parshall.org.
More right after this.
S6 (24:10):
Thank God for kids.
S1 (24:26):
Friends, this is Janet Parshall, and I want to take
a moment to remind you that today's program is prerecorded
so our phone lines aren't open. But I sure do
appreciate your spending the hour with us. And thanks so
much and enjoy the rest of the program. Ministry is
never a solo effort. You know my voice because I'm
on the radio every day. Look a little further and
(24:47):
you'd see right into the homes of listeners just like you,
partial partners who give a monthly gift and make this
ministry available. Become a member of the team today by
becoming a partial partner. Call eight 7758 or go online
to in the market with Janet Parshall dot.
S7 (25:21):
Com and fill our homes with your presence. You alone
are worthy of our reverence. As for me and my house.
We will serve the Lord. As for me and my house,
(25:46):
we will serve the Lord.
S1 (25:48):
You know, when you stop and think about it, the
fact that the Lord puts these irreplaceable treasures in our
lives and then says, parent them. It's really it's overwhelming.
And I will tell you my second thought, after the
one of absolute awe and reverence and astonishment is a
grateful heart that says, thank you, Lord, that you didn't
leave me in the dark, that you gave me the
illuminating power of your word so that I would know
(26:11):
how to parent. And I'm so grateful for that. What
an encouragement. You know, as much as I love my kids,
I discovered early on that I could not out love
God when it came to my kids that he would
always love them more, love them first, will love them forever,
and that that was a great comfort to me. Dennis
and Barbara Rainey are with us co founders of Family Life.
(26:32):
Dennis of course host of Family Life Today and they
join us because we are talking about this wonderful, challenging
on the job experience known as the art of parenting,
and I love that, Dennis said. Basically, it's time for
us to start looking at four key categories when we're
parenting relationships, character, identity, and mission. And in their book,
the Art of parenting, they walk us through eight parenting truths,
(26:53):
which are powerful, profound, and I hope, will sweep away
some of the clutter and offer some real clarity as
you and I look well to the ways of our household.
Dennis and Barbara, we said earlier that there are no
perfect families, and there certainly are no perfect parents. And
here's where a lot of people struggle. And that is
the old adage that the apple doesn't fall far from
the tree is absolutely true. And boy, I remember early
(27:15):
on in my parenting, I went, oh, I sound just
like my mom. And I love the good parts. The
bad parts I wasn't so happy with. So teach me.
I want to break the cycle of things that weren't
necessarily done right. It took me to grow up a
little bit in the Lord to realize, you know what?
They were imperfect. Just like I'm imperfect and you love
and you trust them. And I'm so thankful for books
(27:37):
like The Blessing that say, you know, if it wasn't perfect,
just God will fill in the blanks and you can
move forward. So what happens when some of that stuff,
that baggage that we all have, we're all broken, we
bring into parenting, and we're afraid it's going to get
in the way of being the kind of parent God
wants us to be.
S3 (27:53):
It's really sad, isn't it? When you look at your
kids and you go, they're behaving just like I do.
S1 (27:57):
Yes.
S3 (27:59):
It's just really it's really sad. And what I'm going
to say here, this is going to sound counterintuitive to
what you ought to do, but I want to encourage
our listeners in, in answering your question and addressing it
in their lives to look back before they look forward.
And I'm going to encourage them to look at the
Ten Commandments and specifically to go to the fifth commandment.
(28:22):
It's the first commandment that has a promise honor your
father and your mother, that it may go well with you.
You may. You may live a long life in the
land the Lord your God gives you. I think the
the fifth commandment is the healing commandment in the Ten
Commandments for parents to deal with their their bitterness, their
(28:43):
anger about how their parents failed them, and to return
home with honor rather than blame. And I wrote a
practical book called The Tribute, where I called people to
write a tribute to their parents, and instead of giving
them a dustbuster or a pair of house shoes or
a tie or more junk and stuff, that's not going
(29:06):
to matter. Instead, put your heart, splash it on a
piece of paper and write a tribute that you take
home at Christmas that you take home on an anniversary,
on their birthday, or for no reason, and read it
to them off of this framed tribute and honor them.
Weigh them down with honor. And some of your listeners
(29:28):
are going, you don't know where I came from.
S8 (29:31):
Yeah, yeah. Mhm.
S3 (29:32):
And I understand some of that. I've heard so many
stories that to me I just can't imagine such evil
perpetrated upon children. But you know that that fifth commandment
calls us out of ourselves and cause us to look
toward heaven and to go home and to honor our parents.
Barbara did this with her parents, and it proved to
(29:54):
be a healing moment in her relationship with them.
S4 (29:57):
And the reason it's so important for parents who are
raising children today to honor their parents is it releases
you from feeling like you have to change everything, or
that you're. Releases you from the fear of feeling like
you're repeating what your parents did, that you don't like,
what it does. Is it it? It brings you to
the foot of the cross. It brings you to Christ.
(30:17):
And he says, I can forgive this, I can heal this.
I can bring restoration. And marriage is restoration is is
a restoring institution, and so is the family. And God
wants to do that. He wants to bring redemption to
every area of our life. And a lot of times
when we have our kids and we start raising our kids,
then we see what God wants to do in us.
(30:39):
And often God wants to do hard work in us
before or in alongside the hard work he wants to
do in our kids. And so learning to honor your
parents is a great way to begin to train your
children rightly before the Lord.
S1 (30:54):
You used to phrase, Barbara, I want to pick up
on it because it's something that you and Dennis say
throughout the book that parenting is. And you'd think my
next word would be hard work. And that's true. But
you say, really, it's heart work. Talk to me about that.
S4 (31:08):
Well, it's hard work because we we are really tasked
by the Lord with bringing our children to him and
transforming their hearts so that he can transform their hearts, obviously,
because we can't. But what? What we get so caught
up in what I got caught up in Dennis and
I both did, is we try to change our kids
behavior because that's quicker. It's easier. It's something that we
(31:31):
can instruct them on, but it takes a lot more
time and a lot more energy to pull your kid aside,
to sit down and have a conversation about what it
means to change your heart, because it's all about teaching
your children that their heart needs to belong to God.
It's not your heart, it's theirs. And they need to
give their heart to God, just like we have done that.
(31:53):
And once we take our kids hands and we take
them to the father, we take them to the foot
of the cross and teach our children that they must
give their hearts to Christ. Then he can begin working
that transformation work in their lives. We can't transform our kids.
We can't redeem our kids. We can't make them love God.
(32:14):
Only God can draw them to himself. And so therefore,
our responsibility as a parent is to nurture our children's
hearts to and to introduce them to God so that
he can then change their hearts and make them what
he created them to be.
S3 (32:28):
Janet, can I give you an illustration of this, please? Please. Uh,
I was leaving for a trip, and my daughter, I believe,
was what?
S4 (32:35):
Barbara Ashley was 7 or 8.
S3 (32:36):
7 or 8 years old. She followed me out to
the car. This is back when we had a a
garage that the car would fit in to, to the garage.
And she she followed me out there and, and I
was trying to leave to go catch a plane, to
go speak at a conference and, and she put her
hand on my hand on my arm as it was
leaning out the car and she said, daddy, don't go.
(32:59):
And I said, why? Princess, she said, I'm afraid the
plane's going to crash.
S1 (33:03):
Mhm.
S3 (33:04):
And what had happened is that past summer we'd been
in our car coming back on vacation, and there had
been a crash at Dallas Fort Worth. Uh, a Delta
plane had crashed and there had been fire and the
sirens were going off. And the kids heard all this,
and she was reliving that now as her dad was
about to go get on one of those planes. And
so I began to explain to Ashley. I said, Ashley,
(33:27):
those engines are overhauled. They're there. They're engineered. They have maintenance.
And far more than any car. And I could see
this wasn't getting through, Jim. This was not. This was.
S4 (33:38):
Not computing.
S3 (33:39):
This was not what her heart needed. And I took
Ashley's hand in mine, and I said, Ashley, it's as
though there are all these cords coming from your heart
to my heart and your mom's heart and what you've
got to do, Ashley. And what I've got to do
as your parent is unplug those cords one at a time.
And I reached over and unplugged one of those imaginary cords,
(34:03):
and I reached above her head, and I said I'd
help you plug into God because I'm not going to
be in your bedroom when I drive off. Only there's
only one who can be there that you can have
a face to face encounter with Jesus Christ. And so
I reached above her head, plugged in to God, and
she reached up, unplugged it, and plugged it back into me.
(34:23):
And she said, I don't want to. Oh, I don't
want it. And so I said, but you gotta. And
I took her hand in mine and unplugged it again
and reached up above her head. And so I prayed
with her. And, um, you know, that really is a picture,
I think, of what we've got to do with our children.
I think, Janet and this is one of my hobby
(34:45):
horses as a grandfather. I think there's a reason why
we're seeing so many young people leave the church. Um,
I don't think it's it's because of legal divorce. Uh,
although there's an impact, certainly, that occurs in children's lives
because of that, I think it's because children see a
divorce and their parents spiritual walk at church and what
(35:09):
they see them doing in their home, they're two different realities.
And so the, the, the children are saying, do I
want what he has at church? Maybe. But what difference
does it make here? He never admits a mistake. She
never admits she's at fault. And so I think we
are the models. We are the first taste of the
(35:31):
heart of God. And what we have to do is
train our children to know how to deal with failure,
how to deal with when we we do sin, and
as we disappoint other people and help them to know
what to do with their sin and their disappointment as well.
S1 (35:45):
Now, so much bigger and broader and deeper and wider
than just behavior modification. I was thinking in that example, Dennis,
when you were talking about your time with your daughter,
you really touched on relationship. You touched on character, you
touched on her identity, and you perhaps planted a mission,
something bigger. Let me take a break and come right back.
The book is called the Art of parenting. Dennis and
(36:07):
Barbara Rainey have authored it. More after this.
S7 (36:12):
We will see. The Lord.
S9 (36:42):
Here we are at the start, committing to each other
by His word and from our heart. We will be
a family in a house that will be a home.
(37:04):
And with faith we'll build it strong. We'll build a house.
Hold the faith that together we can make. And when
the strong winds blow, it won't fall down. Known as
(37:25):
one in him will grow and the whole world will
know we are a house hold of faith.
S1 (37:36):
We are visiting with Dennis and Barbara Rainey, co-founders of
Family Life. Dennis, of course, hosts Family Life Today on
stations all across the country, and they host conferences around
the world. Weekends to remember to help couples really and
truly understand the preciousness of that relationship. And together they
have written more than 50 books, including Moments Together for couples.
(37:57):
But they've also written, and this is the book we're
talking about today, the Art of parenting. And they take
a look at eight very key points. But boy, there
have been so many takeaways so far, and yet there's oh,
so much more in the book. So let me go
to this part that Steve Green was just singing about. Barbara,
if I may, let me start with you, because one
of the things that you talk about is that we are,
in truth, this side of glory. And we've been told
(38:20):
in his Word that we will have tribulation not if
but when it trials come. When these fire trials come
and we're straddled between two places, we want this perfection
that we know that we have in him. That will
happen once we're home with him forever. And yet we've
got the chaos and the confusion that reigns in this
life right now. So Steve Green was thinking about when
(38:41):
those winds come. So talk to me about parenting because,
you know, you take those vows, for better or worse.
Sometimes it's more worse than it is better parenting. The
same thing as well. There's going to be some really
rough moments. Highs and lows. Kids, by the way, who
could be raised in a wonderful, vibrant Christian home and
yet still choose to walk away. So talk to me
(39:01):
about the fact that there is not going to be perfection.
And when those winds howl, what our response has to
be is a mom and a dad.
S4 (39:08):
Well, that's a great question. And it's a question that
I could probably talk about for hours, which we don't have.
So because we've faced a lot of difficult things in
our journey, both in our marriage but also with our
kids in parenting. But I think the bottom line is,
is that it all boils down to where do we
place our hope? My hope was at times my hope
(39:30):
was in my children. I will confess that I did
that too. But. But so often God would remind me,
you're placing your hope in your children. You're placing your
hope in your ability to parent them well. Where should
your hope be? And I think as a parent, God
is always asking us that question who are you hoping in?
And God reminded me over and over again in so
(39:51):
many situations as a mom, as as a parent, that
I was placing my hope in the wrong thing. But
when my hope is in him, when I'm trusting him,
then I can step back and allow him to work
not only in my life, but in the life of
my child, in the life of our family. And and
then we can have we can have peace. Because when
(40:13):
your hope is in Christ and you know your security
is in him, we know that nothing comes into our
lives that hasn't first gone through his fingers, that he
hasn't first granted permission to enter our world. And so
when I'm hoping in God, then I can trust him.
And when I'm hoping in myself, then I get panicky
(40:34):
and frantic and I, I feel like it's all on
my back. So to me, the answer to the question
of how do you handle the hard things that come
and the hard things will come? You're absolutely right. The
answer to how you do that is by putting your
hope in Christ.
S3 (40:49):
And Janet, I've got my Bible open to Psalm 127,
which is the famous psalm that says children are a
are a blessing. They're a reward. And that they're they
are like arrows in the hand of a warrior. The
picture there is children are going to be in the
midst of battle, and there's going to be there's going
(41:10):
to be some some nicks, some hits and some casualties
in the battle. And in my Bible, Janet is our
two two footprints.
S8 (41:21):
On top of that verse.
S3 (41:22):
On top of that verse. And it's our granddaughter Molly,
who lives seven days. And it's a reminder that some
of us are given 70 years for a legacy. Others
are given seven days. And the family is the safe
place where that can happen. And, you know, it's not
a matter of people being what we've talked about being perfect.
(41:43):
It's a matter of people not quitting and not giving
up on God because life is tough. It is really tough.
S1 (41:52):
Yes, absolutely. Let me ask you, and I know that
this speaks to so many people who are listening right now.
They're saying, well, my kids are grown. They're out of
the house. In fact, I feel like I've hung up
my shoes as far as parenting is concerned. One of
the points you make, and I'm so glad you did,
and I just I praise God for a wise mother
who's words to me were you are a parent until
the day they put you in the ground. And I've
(42:14):
never forgotten that because I thought, wow, it's just I
can't spank him. I can't send him to the room,
I can't do a timeout. I can't ground him. I
can't withhold their allowance. But boy, if I look at
those four things that you talked about earlier, Dennis relationships, character, identity, mission.
I don't care if my kids are 24 or 44.
I still can do something to speak into those four
(42:35):
areas of their life, it seems to me.
S3 (42:37):
I had a conversation with, uh, one of my adult
children on the way into the studio to talk to
you today by phone, and, uh, this child is facing
some real challenges. Instant. They just occurred. Boom. And they're there. And,
you know, this child just needed a daddy. Just a
daddy who would listen. And I asked at the end
(42:57):
of the time, how can I pray for you? And
he and and he told me three ways. And, uh,
you know, Janet, we never stopped being a parent. And
for the daddies who are listening, if if you don't
remember the last time you kissed your son on the cheek,
do it. The next time you see him, give him
a hug. A big burly bear hug and kiss him
(43:17):
on the cheek and look him in the eyes and
tell him you love him the same way with your daughters.
I think life is too. It is too short, Janet.
We we we get lost in the details, and we
forget about the big picture of how we, as parents,
are expressing the heart of God for a generation that
is going to take our place. Oh.
S1 (43:38):
What a note to end this on, Dennis. That I'm
telling you, that's one of the fastest hours I've ever
done in radio. I'm doing so much introspection and inventory
as you're talking as well. Thank you for the encouragement.
Thank you for the recalibration of helping us understand it
isn't just their behavior. Yes, that might be a residual,
but it's about their relationship with God. It's about building
(43:58):
character in their lives. It's about helping them see themselves
as God sees them, and planting in them a mission
to serve him. Thank you so much for the book.
It's called the Art of parenting. You can learn more
at our website. Thank you friends. We'll see you next time.
Hi friends, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
and it is my sincere hope that you'll hear something
that will equip you, edify you, encourage you, enlighten you,
and then gently but consistently push you out into the
marketplace of ideas where you can let your light so
shine before men and go and tell them the good news.
Before you listen to this podcast, let me just tell
you about this month's truth tool. It's called The Jesus Book,
(00:20):
written by pastor Jack Graham. I love it because he
really does recognize the fact that biblical literacy is declining,
and that a lot of people think that the Bible
is too complicated, that it's written for pastors or for scholars.
And yet, in truth, Jesus is there from Genesis to Revelation.
And that book was written for every single one of us.
We just need a better way to know how to
study God's Word. And that's exactly what the Jesus Book
(00:42):
is all about. So when you give a gift of
any amount this month, I'm going to give you a
copy of the Jesus Book by doctor Jack Graham. Just
call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58 or give
online to in the market with Janet Parshall. Also consider
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truth tool, but in addition, they get a weekly newsletter
(01:04):
that includes some of my writing and an audio piece
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every single month, just call eight 7758 or online at.
In the market with Janet Parshall. Scroll to the bottom
of the page. Thanks so much for letting me take
a moment of your time. And now please enjoy the broadcast.
(01:28):
Hi friends, this is Janet Parshall. Thanks so much for
choosing to spend the next hour with us. Today's program
is prerecorded so our phone lines are not open. But
thanks so much for being with us and enjoy the broadcast.
S2 (01:38):
Congratulations, Chris. It's a boy. He weighs in at £81. What? Oh, uh, sorry, £8. One.
Would you like to hold your son? Yes, please. Here
you go. Smile. Honey, let's put that straight on Facebook. Goodbye. No, wait.
Where's the manual? How do we. I mean, I don't
(02:01):
know how to. Oh, at first, he didn't know what
he was supposed to do. Most of it was crying
and then changing you. It took a while to get there,
but now, as he grows. I'm learning how to parent
(02:22):
as I go. Parenting is such a lovely thing. Celebrate
the super change you make. Parenting is such a lovely thing.
Celebrate the super change you make. The super change you make.
S1 (02:48):
Oh, guess what we're talking about this hour. That was
a big fat clue. Parenting. The art of parenting. Hello, friends.
Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. Parenting is
such a lovely thing. Okay, so let me guess. You
have three kids pulling at your pant leg right now.
It's not dinner time. You don't want to have a
bunch of juice boxes swallowed before dinner. You want them
(03:09):
to get some space in their little tummies for veggies.
They're tired, they're worn out, they're crabby and all together.
Now let's sing parenting a love. Oh, okay. Yeah. Parenting
is on the job training, and it's tough. And yet
it's the most high calling some of us will ever get.
And it is an important task. It is that amazing task.
(03:29):
God puts these treasures in our life and then says,
now train them in the nurture and the admonition of me.
Tough stuff. But I praise God that he raises up
wonderful teachers like Dennis and Barbara Rainey. We know who
Dennis and Barbara are, don't we? They're the founders of
Family Life, a crew ministry, or the ministry formerly known
as Campus Crusade for Christ. Yes and no. It goes
(03:51):
through my head every time the artist formerly known as Prince.
Pretty soon we won't even have to say. Formerly known as.
It'll just be crew and we'll all get that. Dennis
host of course family life today and Barber created ever
thine home. Have you seen these things fabulous. Their decorative
products that we can put around our home that really
let people know that Jesus is Lord in this particular house?
Fabulous stuff. Well, they host Weekend to Remember conferences all
(04:14):
around the world, and together the two of them have
written more than 50 books, including the best selling Moments
Together for couples. And now they bring us their latest
book called the Art of parenting. And eventually I will
open the phone lines. But boy, I got a lot
of questions I want to ask first. Dennis and Barbara,
the warmest of welcomes. Thank you for the gift of
your time today.
S3 (04:33):
It's great to be here.
S4 (04:34):
Thank you Janet, it's great to be on your show.
S3 (04:36):
Did you write that song, Janet?
S1 (04:37):
No, but isn't it perfect? Oh my word. It just.
S3 (04:42):
It really is. I was going that's an interesting start
to the program. That's pretty cool. Way to go, Janet.
S1 (04:48):
I think you. Dennis. That was amazing. Well, I have
to ask you. And I was thinking about this all
day long because you get married, you fall in love.
And as God chose in your life, he brought you
the blessing of kids. And when that first baby came,
I mean, and I love open, honest, transparent conversation. We're
talking to folks all over the country, just like you
do Dennis, on a regular basis. And a lot of
people think because we sit in front of a microphone,
(05:10):
we got it all together. It's all perfect. It's absolutely unblemished.
And so I want to hear from you when that
baby was put in your arms and you started the
role of parenting, I'd love to hear from both of you.
What was your biggest surprise? What was your biggest challenge?
S4 (05:25):
Well, I think I'll start. I think our biggest surprise
was how much time one little tiny thing person took.
It was a 24 hour, seven day a week job
that I didn't realize it was going to take that
much time, so I was I was very surprised by
how all consuming one little tiny person could be.
S3 (05:45):
And I, on the other hand, nearly passed out while
Barbara was giving birth.
S4 (05:50):
He did. That's not just a line.
S3 (05:51):
That's not that's not a spoof. I really did, Janet.
I'm sorry, but when they placed my daughter in my arms,
I have to tell you, I really did have this desire. Janet.
I wanted to roll her over and find the instructions.
S1 (06:06):
Yes. Yes.
S3 (06:07):
Are they on the back side? Where? How do you
do this thing called parenting? I don't think anybody is
truly prepared us to be parents. In fact, it's interesting.
George Barna did little research. He indicated that eight out
of ten today feel like this generation that's raising parents,
(06:27):
millennials feel like it's much more difficult to raise a
child today than than it was for their parents.
S1 (06:33):
Mhm. Wow. Are you surprised by that?
S4 (06:35):
I'm not surprised by that because I think every generation
faces new circumstances, new situations and new pressures for their
kids that the previous generation didn't. So I think every
generation has it harder than the previous generation does. And
I just think that's a part of life because life
is changing. It's constantly evolving. And so what parents are
(06:58):
facing in this generation is different than what we faced
in ours. And ours was different than our parents and
so on and so forth. So that doesn't really surprise me.
S3 (07:08):
And I'm looking at our grandkids. We got a few
of them and I'm looking at the issues they're facing. Janet,
there's no question the issues being thrown at them in
elementary school, junior high, high school, long before they get
to adulthood because they're not adults. When they're in the
teen years, they're still growing up and developing the whatever.
(07:29):
The portion of the brain is that helps them become
a man or a woman. But I think it's a
challenging day to be a be a parent as never before.
S1 (07:38):
Yeah, I heartily concur. Dennis, let me pick up on
what you said. And, Barbara, I think you're wise. Every generation,
I think, is more difficult than the preceding generation. So
when you talk about some of the challenges, Dennis, what
went through my mind when you said that immediately was
the directive for us to raise our children in the
nurture and the admonition of the Lord has always been there.
That's not an opt in, opt out clause for parents
(07:58):
who love the Lord. That is a directive on how
we're supposed to take care of our kids. But I'm thinking,
in this post-truth age in which we live, we almost
have to teach them sooner and more intensely on some
of these spiritual issues, because the challenges are challenges we've
never had to face before. I mean, my word having
to talk to an elementary school child about transgenderism, it's
(08:20):
not a discussion I'd ever want to have, let alone
have it with a six year old.
S3 (08:23):
Yeah. Romans 16 verse 19 says, but I want you.
Paul was speaking to his spiritual children. He says, I
want you to be wise in what is good and
innocent in what is evil. I think that's a parent's assignment.
Help them to be have wisdom about the good and
to be innocent of experiencing evil. That's a challenge in
this culture, boy.
S1 (08:44):
Well said and what a way to start our conversation.
Dennis and Barbara Rainey have graciously agreed to spend the
entire hour with us and to encourage us. By the way,
I love it when parents can get a time out
and sort of encourage one another on what it means
to be a parent and how we can do it
in a way that honors the Lord, which should be
our goal after all. So their newest book is called
the Art of parenting. We're going to talk more about
(09:05):
it right after this.
S2 (09:07):
Celebrate the change. Celebrate the super change. Celebrate the super
change you made.
S1 (09:25):
Did you know that Jesus appears in every book of
the Bible from Genesis to Revelation? That's why I've chosen
the Jesus Book as this month's truth tool. Learn to read, understand,
and apply God's Word for yourself and how to know
Jesus as never before. As for your copy of the
Jesus Book, when you give a gift of any amount
to in the market, call eight 7758, that's eight 7758
(09:46):
or go to in the market with Janet Parshall.
S5 (09:56):
Train. Shine 22. Six. Train up a child. Train. Train
up a child. Child. Child. Train up a child. In
(10:18):
the way that he should go. Train up a child
in the way that he should go.
S1 (10:24):
Well, there it is. The biblical directive. But nobody ever
said that. That would be easy. So I'm very grateful
that we have wonderful teachers among us, like Dennis and
Barbara Rainey, who are the founders of Family Life. And
Dennis hosts, as we all know, Family Life Radio. We
love it. Family life today. Such good teachers. And I
love the way that Dennis and Barbara will host conferences
around the world for couples and teach them how to
(10:46):
look well to the ways of their household. And it
follows suit, does it not, that of the many, many
books that they've written that they would do one on parenting,
the Art of parenting. You start the book out in
a very important way, and that is we are all fallen, fallen,
fractured earthen vessels. And that was God's plan from the beginning.
There are no perfect parents that takes a whole boatload
(11:07):
of weight off of my shoulders, and I'm sure it
does for a couple of other people listening as well.
But you start out by talking about God parenting us
that I think, oh, I wish I would have known
this when my babies were first as a part of
our nest, because if I had had that perspective, I
think it would have changed the trajectory of what I
felt my responsibility was and what my approach was to parenting.
(11:29):
So share some of your thoughts about that, because it's
comforting and liberating at the same time.
S4 (11:34):
Well, I agree, Janet, and I think one of the the,
the understandings that I finally came to and we share
this in the very beginning of the book for that
reason that you just said that is that God, as
a perfect father, never had perfect children. And when I
realized that in the process of raising our kids, a
huge weight was lifted off my shoulders, because I think
(11:55):
somehow I thought I was supposed to raise perfect kids,
or at least kids who didn't mess up very often.
Because after all, that's what I was supposed to do
as a Christian mom. But when I realized that it
was impossible for me to raise that kind of kid,
that God, the perfect God of Father in our in heaven,
his children rebelled. It just made me relax and go, okay,
(12:18):
they've got to learn to trust God on their own.
And I can trust God with their hearts because he
knows how to bring his children back to him, and
therefore he can bring my children back as well when
they wander. So I think it's important for parents to
understand that you'll not do it perfectly. You'll make all
kinds of mistakes, but God can be in the middle
(12:39):
of all of that.
S3 (12:40):
And Janet, it was the question you asked that drove
me to the scriptures in attempting to answer it and say,
what does God expect of us as parents, and I
spent the better part of a year interviewing some of
the finest Bible scholars, some of the finest mentors, coaches, counselors, pastors,
men and women from all different disciplines. And we came up,
(13:04):
Barbara and I came up with four categories that we
have built this book around. But this is how we
try to raise our kids. We felt like God deals
with us in four areas. First of all, in relationships.
What's the great commandment? Love God, love others. Secondly, he
deals with us in the area of character, helping us
(13:26):
to be wise and not a fool to choose right
and not wrong. That's the book of. That's the book
of Proverbs. Third, our identity that's both spiritual identity and
sexual identity. Keep in mind, we develop this material 28
years ago and began to field test it. And when
we first started this out on the issue of identity.
(13:47):
Sexual identity was not near the issue that it is today,
but it's front and center today. And then the final
one is mission. Every child needs direction and purpose and
needs to realize he was put here by God to
accomplish something really, really great for his kingdom. If parents
can take those four things and hold those up as
(14:09):
kind of the reading, writing, and arithmetic of raising children today,
I think they'll be better off in the long haul.
S1 (14:17):
Dennis, can I linger on that point? Because, again, that reorientation,
I think the thinking for parents in that I think
so often we think ours is about it's a world
of practicums. And yes, there's clearly a component of that.
I mean, we want to potty train our kids. We
want them to read and write. We want them to
teach them how to behave in public and how not
to tell lies, and how to respect their siblings. Should
the Lord give us more than one child? All of
(14:39):
those things. But I think so often that becomes the
primary focus of what we think our responsibility of parenting is.
It's if I can put it this way, it's all
about behavior modification rather than these four really transcendent issues
that you've talked about. It seems to me that if
we put those four issues in front of us, a
we keep the main thing, the main thing. So the
(14:59):
mission is more clearly articulated, and there's a place for grace,
and I'm not going to turn the minors in the
major as long as I'm moving toward one of those
four pillars.
S3 (15:08):
I love what you just said.
S4 (15:09):
Well said.
S3 (15:09):
It's really well said. I think we all gravitate to
all the the minutia and all the disciplines of getting
our children so that they're, they're perfect and under the people,
which they're, they're they're not perfect. Our family has one
opportunity a year to be perfect. That's the Christmas card.
S4 (15:28):
That's exactly right.
S3 (15:30):
If you take enough pictures, if you take enough pictures,
every eye will be open. Every smile will have teeth.
That's showing and and pleasant looks. But we had one child.
We could take 70, 80, 90 8090 pictures. He had
the goofiest face. He always messed up our pictures. And
(15:51):
it's only at Christmas time that we ever send a
picture of the perfect family. All of our families, every
family is broken and is in need of a savior.
That's the message children. And I want our listeners to
hear this. Children are redemptive. They can. They convince us
we can't do it on our own. That we as parents,
(16:13):
first of all, need a savior so that we then
can introduce our children to that Savior as well.
S1 (16:20):
Yeah. Wow. So again, in the spirit of transparency, I
want to go back to what you said about perfect kids,
because maybe people outside the church, those who don't yet
know the Lord as their personal savior, struggle in this area.
But I sense that in the church in particular, we
have this idea that perfection is a mandate for Christian families.
Now music is playing, and I don't want to rush
(16:40):
through that answer. But Dennis and Barbara, I'd love for
you to address that when we come back, that maybe,
as my mama used to say, get off your back.
Not my back, but get off your back a little bit.
Take a deep breath and understand that perfection is not
the goal here. I'd love for you to address that.
And then I'm going to open the phone lines, because
I know you'd love to talk to Dennis and Barbara.
Their book is called the Art of parenting. I've got
a link to FamilyLife today. Boy, I don't know about you,
(17:01):
but I'm already encouraged. My my kids are grown. But
as Barbara and Dennis tell us in the book, the
Art of parenting, that doesn't mean my job as a
parent is over by any stretch of the imagination. So
much more after this.
S6 (17:31):
If it weren't for kids, have you ever thought there
wouldn't be no Santa Claus? Or look what the stork
just brought? Thank God for kids. And we'd all live
in a quiet house without Big Bird or a Mickey mouse.
Kool-Aid on the couch. Thank God for kids.
S1 (17:55):
Well, that's the Oak Ridge boys reminding us what a
joy it is to be a parent. But it's a
high calling, and the Lord has a lot to say
in his instruction manual to us about parenting. And I'm
so glad that Dennis and Barbara Rainey reinforce what God's
Word says in their book, the Art of parenting. Dennis,
of course, hosting Family Life Today, heard all across the country,
and Dennis and Barbara speaking around the world at their
(18:16):
Weekend to Remember conferences. Dennis, let me pick up on
something I said just before the break because, again, I
think I remember Chuck Swindoll writing his book about the
problem with transparency, particularly talking about the church. And so
this idea of perfection is not only this, it's Sisyphus
in Hades, kind of an approach. No matter what you do,
you're never going to strive it. So it's an exercise
(18:37):
in frustration, futility and failure. But we have this idea,
I think, much more in the church than we do outside.
Because somehow, if we've been made perfect in Christ, therefore
we should have absolute perfection around the kitchen table. Can
you talk to me about that?
S3 (18:51):
Could I tell a story that probably is going to
offend some of your listeners? I'm sure you've never done that, Janet.
S1 (18:57):
Never, never.
S3 (18:58):
Never done that. I was with a very good friend
this past weekend, and he just confessed to me. He said,
you know, I had I had four children and each
of them wanted to get a tattoo. They wanted to
get a tat. And I told them at the point
they wanted to get one, that I would go with
them and I would get one too.
S4 (19:20):
So it had to be something that he would be
willing to get.
S3 (19:24):
Exactly, exactly. And he said there was something about that,
that three of the four never, never took me up
on it. They they came, but we ran out of
time and they got distracted on to other things. But
the youngest came to him and he said, I've got a,
I've got a tat here on my, on my calf
(19:45):
of my, my leg. And I said could I see it?
And he said, yeah. And he pulls back his pant leg.
And there is B as in boy over.
S4 (19:58):
Like a.
S3 (19:59):
P over P like a fraction. And I said, yeah.
He said, both of us have this b over p
tat that we got together. And I said, what's it mean?
He said, I want our our children to know that
bravery was to be preferred over perfection.
S1 (20:19):
Mhm.
S3 (20:20):
You know, I know some of your listeners are offended
that I've used an illustration like that. But here's the thing.
That's the call for this generation bravery to confront issues
and love with compassion and caring and to, to, to
intersect with people who are different than them, who believe
different than we do. Those are all great things to
(20:42):
teach our kids, but if we're waiting to train them
to be perfect before they do those things, it's not
going to happen.
S1 (20:48):
Not going to happen. No. And by the way, Dennis,
let me just pick up on what you said about
the idea that that might be offensive because you used
the example of the tattoo. This goes to another point
that you and Barbara make in the book, which is
there is no one size fits all formula for parenting.
And I think one of the challenges we have is
not to have this idea that we should be majoring
(21:08):
in the minors. You know, here it turns out that
there is a profound life lesson in that tattoo. Parent
may disagree with the idea of inking your skin, but
if there's a message that he'll carry the rest of
his life and it was a father and son experience
shared together, maybe for that family, for that parent child relationship,
it was exactly what needed to be done to help
him take his next step forward. As a young man
(21:29):
walking closer to the Lord. Am I right or wrong
on that?
S3 (21:32):
You're right. I mean, and here's the thing. These little
lessons show up in all kinds of places. At the
at the start of the broadcast, we talked about how
we had distilled down what the Bible teaches are are
the the responsibilities of a parent into relationships, into character, identity,
and mission. Relationships are where we start because we've got
(21:53):
to train our children in knowing how to love each other.
And then they learn how to love God because their
hearts are rebellious toward God. And we got to teach
them what to do with that rebellion. I think parents
have to model what it looks like to resolve conflict
and to admit they're wrong and ask for forgiveness. And
(22:15):
and Barbara did this one Thanksgiving with our family. Janet,
that was a memorable event that each of our kids remember.
S4 (22:23):
And because it's not just teaching our children to, as
you mentioned earlier, Janet, to have proper behavior, but parents
also have to model for them what it looks like
to be a believer, what it looks like to walk
with Christ. And that doesn't just mean going to church
and carrying your Bible and sitting there Sunday after Sunday.
It means modeling a relationship with Christ in front of
(22:45):
your kids so that they see what it looks like.
And so what Dennis is referring to is, as we
raised our kids, we ask for forgiveness. Every time we
made a mistake, we were constantly. Sometimes I felt like
I asked my kids to forgive me multiple times every
day because I wanted them. We wanted them to know
what it was like to confess that they had made
(23:06):
a mistake. When you can't admit that you've made a
mistake of any kind, then your kid has got a
pride problem or you as a parent have a pride problem.
But we also but I also, I should say, wanted
my kids to know that it wasn't just the the
little mistakes that I made throughout the day, that I
had a heart problem, that I had a sin issue
(23:27):
in my life that I needed God's forgiveness for. And
so one Thanksgiving, I apologized to my children for being
a sinner, that I needed God's grace, that I needed
his redemption. I wanted them to know that I knew
that I was broken and in need of a Savior.
And so therefore, I wanted them to know that they
also have a broken heart. Who needs to be redeemed
(23:49):
as well?
S1 (23:50):
Oh, that's wise, wise counsel. Is it just me, or
is this hour flying by? Dennis and Barbara Rainey are
with us co founders of Family Life. Dennis host of
Family Life Today. And they join us because their newest
book is called the Art of parenting. All that is
linked on my website at in the market with Janet parshall.org.
More right after this.
S6 (24:10):
Thank God for kids.
S1 (24:26):
Friends, this is Janet Parshall, and I want to take
a moment to remind you that today's program is prerecorded
so our phone lines aren't open. But I sure do
appreciate your spending the hour with us. And thanks so
much and enjoy the rest of the program. Ministry is
never a solo effort. You know my voice because I'm
on the radio every day. Look a little further and
(24:47):
you'd see right into the homes of listeners just like you,
partial partners who give a monthly gift and make this
ministry available. Become a member of the team today by
becoming a partial partner. Call eight 7758 or go online
to in the market with Janet Parshall dot.
S7 (25:21):
Com and fill our homes with your presence. You alone
are worthy of our reverence. As for me and my house.
We will serve the Lord. As for me and my house,
(25:46):
we will serve the Lord.
S1 (25:48):
You know, when you stop and think about it, the
fact that the Lord puts these irreplaceable treasures in our
lives and then says, parent them. It's really it's overwhelming.
And I will tell you my second thought, after the
one of absolute awe and reverence and astonishment is a
grateful heart that says, thank you, Lord, that you didn't
leave me in the dark, that you gave me the
illuminating power of your word so that I would know
(26:11):
how to parent. And I'm so grateful for that. What
an encouragement. You know, as much as I love my kids,
I discovered early on that I could not out love
God when it came to my kids that he would
always love them more, love them first, will love them forever,
and that that was a great comfort to me. Dennis
and Barbara Rainey are with us co founders of Family Life.
(26:32):
Dennis of course host of Family Life Today and they
join us because we are talking about this wonderful, challenging
on the job experience known as the art of parenting,
and I love that, Dennis said. Basically, it's time for
us to start looking at four key categories when we're
parenting relationships, character, identity, and mission. And in their book,
the Art of parenting, they walk us through eight parenting truths,
(26:53):
which are powerful, profound, and I hope, will sweep away
some of the clutter and offer some real clarity as
you and I look well to the ways of our household.
Dennis and Barbara, we said earlier that there are no
perfect families, and there certainly are no perfect parents. And
here's where a lot of people struggle. And that is
the old adage that the apple doesn't fall far from
the tree is absolutely true. And boy, I remember early
(27:15):
on in my parenting, I went, oh, I sound just
like my mom. And I love the good parts. The
bad parts I wasn't so happy with. So teach me.
I want to break the cycle of things that weren't
necessarily done right. It took me to grow up a
little bit in the Lord to realize, you know what?
They were imperfect. Just like I'm imperfect and you love
and you trust them. And I'm so thankful for books
(27:37):
like The Blessing that say, you know, if it wasn't perfect,
just God will fill in the blanks and you can
move forward. So what happens when some of that stuff,
that baggage that we all have, we're all broken, we
bring into parenting, and we're afraid it's going to get
in the way of being the kind of parent God
wants us to be.
S3 (27:53):
It's really sad, isn't it? When you look at your
kids and you go, they're behaving just like I do.
S1 (27:57):
Yes.
S3 (27:59):
It's just really it's really sad. And what I'm going
to say here, this is going to sound counterintuitive to
what you ought to do, but I want to encourage
our listeners in, in answering your question and addressing it
in their lives to look back before they look forward.
And I'm going to encourage them to look at the
Ten Commandments and specifically to go to the fifth commandment.
(28:22):
It's the first commandment that has a promise honor your
father and your mother, that it may go well with you.
You may. You may live a long life in the
land the Lord your God gives you. I think the
the fifth commandment is the healing commandment in the Ten
Commandments for parents to deal with their their bitterness, their
(28:43):
anger about how their parents failed them, and to return
home with honor rather than blame. And I wrote a
practical book called The Tribute, where I called people to
write a tribute to their parents, and instead of giving
them a dustbuster or a pair of house shoes or
a tie or more junk and stuff, that's not going
(29:06):
to matter. Instead, put your heart, splash it on a
piece of paper and write a tribute that you take
home at Christmas that you take home on an anniversary,
on their birthday, or for no reason, and read it
to them off of this framed tribute and honor them.
Weigh them down with honor. And some of your listeners
(29:28):
are going, you don't know where I came from.
S8 (29:31):
Yeah, yeah. Mhm.
S3 (29:32):
And I understand some of that. I've heard so many
stories that to me I just can't imagine such evil
perpetrated upon children. But you know that that fifth commandment
calls us out of ourselves and cause us to look
toward heaven and to go home and to honor our parents.
Barbara did this with her parents, and it proved to
(29:54):
be a healing moment in her relationship with them.
S4 (29:57):
And the reason it's so important for parents who are
raising children today to honor their parents is it releases
you from feeling like you have to change everything, or
that you're. Releases you from the fear of feeling like
you're repeating what your parents did, that you don't like,
what it does. Is it it? It brings you to
the foot of the cross. It brings you to Christ.
(30:17):
And he says, I can forgive this, I can heal this.
I can bring restoration. And marriage is restoration is is
a restoring institution, and so is the family. And God
wants to do that. He wants to bring redemption to
every area of our life. And a lot of times
when we have our kids and we start raising our kids,
then we see what God wants to do in us.
(30:39):
And often God wants to do hard work in us
before or in alongside the hard work he wants to
do in our kids. And so learning to honor your
parents is a great way to begin to train your
children rightly before the Lord.
S1 (30:54):
You used to phrase, Barbara, I want to pick up
on it because it's something that you and Dennis say
throughout the book that parenting is. And you'd think my
next word would be hard work. And that's true. But
you say, really, it's heart work. Talk to me about that.
S4 (31:08):
Well, it's hard work because we we are really tasked
by the Lord with bringing our children to him and
transforming their hearts so that he can transform their hearts, obviously,
because we can't. But what? What we get so caught
up in what I got caught up in Dennis and
I both did, is we try to change our kids
behavior because that's quicker. It's easier. It's something that we
(31:31):
can instruct them on, but it takes a lot more
time and a lot more energy to pull your kid aside,
to sit down and have a conversation about what it
means to change your heart, because it's all about teaching
your children that their heart needs to belong to God.
It's not your heart, it's theirs. And they need to
give their heart to God, just like we have done that.
(31:53):
And once we take our kids hands and we take
them to the father, we take them to the foot
of the cross and teach our children that they must
give their hearts to Christ. Then he can begin working
that transformation work in their lives. We can't transform our kids.
We can't redeem our kids. We can't make them love God.
(32:14):
Only God can draw them to himself. And so therefore,
our responsibility as a parent is to nurture our children's
hearts to and to introduce them to God so that
he can then change their hearts and make them what
he created them to be.
S3 (32:28):
Janet, can I give you an illustration of this, please? Please. Uh,
I was leaving for a trip, and my daughter, I believe,
was what?
S4 (32:35):
Barbara Ashley was 7 or 8.
S3 (32:36):
7 or 8 years old. She followed me out to
the car. This is back when we had a a
garage that the car would fit in to, to the garage.
And she she followed me out there and, and I
was trying to leave to go catch a plane, to
go speak at a conference and, and she put her
hand on my hand on my arm as it was
leaning out the car and she said, daddy, don't go.
(32:59):
And I said, why? Princess, she said, I'm afraid the
plane's going to crash.
S1 (33:03):
Mhm.
S3 (33:04):
And what had happened is that past summer we'd been
in our car coming back on vacation, and there had
been a crash at Dallas Fort Worth. Uh, a Delta
plane had crashed and there had been fire and the
sirens were going off. And the kids heard all this,
and she was reliving that now as her dad was
about to go get on one of those planes. And
so I began to explain to Ashley. I said, Ashley,
(33:27):
those engines are overhauled. They're there. They're engineered. They have maintenance.
And far more than any car. And I could see
this wasn't getting through, Jim. This was not. This was.
S4 (33:38):
Not computing.
S3 (33:39):
This was not what her heart needed. And I took
Ashley's hand in mine, and I said, Ashley, it's as
though there are all these cords coming from your heart
to my heart and your mom's heart and what you've
got to do, Ashley. And what I've got to do
as your parent is unplug those cords one at a time.
And I reached over and unplugged one of those imaginary cords,
(34:03):
and I reached above her head, and I said I'd
help you plug into God because I'm not going to
be in your bedroom when I drive off. Only there's
only one who can be there that you can have
a face to face encounter with Jesus Christ. And so
I reached above her head, plugged in to God, and
she reached up, unplugged it, and plugged it back into me.
(34:23):
And she said, I don't want to. Oh, I don't
want it. And so I said, but you gotta. And
I took her hand in mine and unplugged it again
and reached up above her head. And so I prayed
with her. And, um, you know, that really is a picture,
I think, of what we've got to do with our children.
I think, Janet and this is one of my hobby
(34:45):
horses as a grandfather. I think there's a reason why
we're seeing so many young people leave the church. Um,
I don't think it's it's because of legal divorce. Uh,
although there's an impact, certainly, that occurs in children's lives
because of that, I think it's because children see a
divorce and their parents spiritual walk at church and what
(35:09):
they see them doing in their home, they're two different realities.
And so the, the, the children are saying, do I
want what he has at church? Maybe. But what difference
does it make here? He never admits a mistake. She
never admits she's at fault. And so I think we
are the models. We are the first taste of the
(35:31):
heart of God. And what we have to do is
train our children to know how to deal with failure,
how to deal with when we we do sin, and
as we disappoint other people and help them to know
what to do with their sin and their disappointment as well.
S1 (35:45):
Now, so much bigger and broader and deeper and wider
than just behavior modification. I was thinking in that example, Dennis,
when you were talking about your time with your daughter,
you really touched on relationship. You touched on character, you
touched on her identity, and you perhaps planted a mission,
something bigger. Let me take a break and come right back.
The book is called the Art of parenting. Dennis and
(36:07):
Barbara Rainey have authored it. More after this.
S7 (36:12):
We will see. The Lord.
S9 (36:42):
Here we are at the start, committing to each other
by His word and from our heart. We will be
a family in a house that will be a home.
(37:04):
And with faith we'll build it strong. We'll build a house.
Hold the faith that together we can make. And when
the strong winds blow, it won't fall down. Known as
(37:25):
one in him will grow and the whole world will
know we are a house hold of faith.
S1 (37:36):
We are visiting with Dennis and Barbara Rainey, co-founders of
Family Life. Dennis, of course, hosts Family Life Today on
stations all across the country, and they host conferences around
the world. Weekends to remember to help couples really and
truly understand the preciousness of that relationship. And together they
have written more than 50 books, including Moments Together for couples.
(37:57):
But they've also written, and this is the book we're
talking about today, the Art of parenting. And they take
a look at eight very key points. But boy, there
have been so many takeaways so far, and yet there's oh,
so much more in the book. So let me go
to this part that Steve Green was just singing about. Barbara,
if I may, let me start with you, because one
of the things that you talk about is that we are,
in truth, this side of glory. And we've been told
(38:20):
in his Word that we will have tribulation not if
but when it trials come. When these fire trials come
and we're straddled between two places, we want this perfection
that we know that we have in him. That will
happen once we're home with him forever. And yet we've
got the chaos and the confusion that reigns in this
life right now. So Steve Green was thinking about when
(38:41):
those winds come. So talk to me about parenting because,
you know, you take those vows, for better or worse.
Sometimes it's more worse than it is better parenting. The
same thing as well. There's going to be some really
rough moments. Highs and lows. Kids, by the way, who
could be raised in a wonderful, vibrant Christian home and
yet still choose to walk away. So talk to me
(39:01):
about the fact that there is not going to be perfection.
And when those winds howl, what our response has to
be is a mom and a dad.
S4 (39:08):
Well, that's a great question. And it's a question that
I could probably talk about for hours, which we don't have.
So because we've faced a lot of difficult things in
our journey, both in our marriage but also with our
kids in parenting. But I think the bottom line is,
is that it all boils down to where do we
place our hope? My hope was at times my hope
(39:30):
was in my children. I will confess that I did
that too. But. But so often God would remind me,
you're placing your hope in your children. You're placing your
hope in your ability to parent them well. Where should
your hope be? And I think as a parent, God
is always asking us that question who are you hoping in?
And God reminded me over and over again in so
(39:51):
many situations as a mom, as as a parent, that
I was placing my hope in the wrong thing. But
when my hope is in him, when I'm trusting him,
then I can step back and allow him to work
not only in my life, but in the life of
my child, in the life of our family. And and
then we can have we can have peace. Because when
(40:13):
your hope is in Christ and you know your security
is in him, we know that nothing comes into our
lives that hasn't first gone through his fingers, that he
hasn't first granted permission to enter our world. And so
when I'm hoping in God, then I can trust him.
And when I'm hoping in myself, then I get panicky
(40:34):
and frantic and I, I feel like it's all on
my back. So to me, the answer to the question
of how do you handle the hard things that come
and the hard things will come? You're absolutely right. The
answer to how you do that is by putting your
hope in Christ.
S3 (40:49):
And Janet, I've got my Bible open to Psalm 127,
which is the famous psalm that says children are a
are a blessing. They're a reward. And that they're they
are like arrows in the hand of a warrior. The
picture there is children are going to be in the
midst of battle, and there's going to be there's going
(41:10):
to be some some nicks, some hits and some casualties
in the battle. And in my Bible, Janet is our
two two footprints.
S8 (41:21):
On top of that verse.
S3 (41:22):
On top of that verse. And it's our granddaughter Molly,
who lives seven days. And it's a reminder that some
of us are given 70 years for a legacy. Others
are given seven days. And the family is the safe
place where that can happen. And, you know, it's not
a matter of people being what we've talked about being perfect.
(41:43):
It's a matter of people not quitting and not giving
up on God because life is tough. It is really tough.
S1 (41:52):
Yes, absolutely. Let me ask you, and I know that
this speaks to so many people who are listening right now.
They're saying, well, my kids are grown. They're out of
the house. In fact, I feel like I've hung up
my shoes as far as parenting is concerned. One of
the points you make, and I'm so glad you did,
and I just I praise God for a wise mother
who's words to me were you are a parent until
the day they put you in the ground. And I've
(42:14):
never forgotten that because I thought, wow, it's just I
can't spank him. I can't send him to the room,
I can't do a timeout. I can't ground him. I
can't withhold their allowance. But boy, if I look at
those four things that you talked about earlier, Dennis relationships, character, identity, mission.
I don't care if my kids are 24 or 44.
I still can do something to speak into those four
(42:35):
areas of their life, it seems to me.
S3 (42:37):
I had a conversation with, uh, one of my adult
children on the way into the studio to talk to
you today by phone, and, uh, this child is facing
some real challenges. Instant. They just occurred. Boom. And they're there. And,
you know, this child just needed a daddy. Just a
daddy who would listen. And I asked at the end
(42:57):
of the time, how can I pray for you? And
he and and he told me three ways. And, uh,
you know, Janet, we never stopped being a parent. And
for the daddies who are listening, if if you don't
remember the last time you kissed your son on the cheek,
do it. The next time you see him, give him
a hug. A big burly bear hug and kiss him
(43:17):
on the cheek and look him in the eyes and
tell him you love him the same way with your daughters.
I think life is too. It is too short, Janet.
We we we get lost in the details, and we
forget about the big picture of how we, as parents,
are expressing the heart of God for a generation that
is going to take our place. Oh.
S1 (43:38):
What a note to end this on, Dennis. That I'm
telling you, that's one of the fastest hours I've ever
done in radio. I'm doing so much introspection and inventory
as you're talking as well. Thank you for the encouragement.
Thank you for the recalibration of helping us understand it
isn't just their behavior. Yes, that might be a residual,
but it's about their relationship with God. It's about building
(43:58):
character in their lives. It's about helping them see themselves
as God sees them, and planting in them a mission
to serve him. Thank you so much for the book.
It's called the Art of parenting. You can learn more
at our website. Thank you friends. We'll see you next time.
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