June 10, 2025 • 44 mins
Christians generally know that God created “the heavens and the earth” and made human beings in His image. They know that “the earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof”—He owns His creations. They know that skilled people create and own marvelous works. But a disconnect often occurs when it comes to God’s communicable attributes of creativity and ownership and that combination’s role in human innovation, technological progress, and practical benefits from human creativity and ownership. Jim Edwards will join us to connect the dots between creativity and ownership, as well as the dots between that combination and the fruits of human flourishing.
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Episode Transcript
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S1 (00:00):
Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
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And I absolutely love this topic because if you're like me,
going out into the night sky and looking up and
seeing a million stars, don't you just stop and think
(00:22):
about God? And are you not in a moment of
awe and wonder or looking out over the vast expanse
of an ocean and you start thinking, what is man,
that thou art mindful of him? And it makes you
wonder about the magnificence of God? I think that sense
of wonder was put there on purpose, and this wonderful
book includes a composite of multiple authors who have written
(00:42):
from their perspective as a scientist, or a historian, or
a mathematician or an artist, on why they all have
this sense of awe through the work that they do.
In other words, the heavens declare the glory. And as
it tells us in Romans, we are really without excuse
because his handiwork is everywhere. And this book invites you
to walk through the chapters written by people who all
(01:03):
have a sense of awe and wonder when it comes
to God through their various disciplines in life. It's an
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(01:46):
becoming a partial partner or asking for this month's truth tool.
Have you ever wondered? And now please enjoy the broadcast.
S2 (01:53):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:55):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (01:57):
The Americans worshiping government over God?
S3 (02:00):
Extremely rare safety move by a nation.
S5 (02:02):
17 years. The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S3 (02:06):
This is not.
S1 (02:20):
Hi friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall.
I am thrilled we're going to spend this hour together. Okay.
We're going to think critically and biblically. And what do
I always say after I make that declaration? That is
not a multiple choice test. It's not an either or.
It is a both. And you come to faith in
Jesus Christ. Your heart is transformed, but your mind is renewed.
You're a different person. And I've made the declaration before,
(02:44):
and I think so many of you would have to
agree that coming to faith in Jesus Christ is like
stepping out of a black and white movie into Technicolor,
and you suddenly start looking at the world around you.
And yes, we are east of Eden and the world
is turned upside down and good is called evil. Evil
is called good. And yet man's doing what's right in
his own eyes. But in the midst of all of that,
(03:05):
Romans reminds us, we're without excuse because God's presence is
made manifest. He is everywhere. The heavens declare the glory.
Had the privilege of sitting on my front porch this
weekend during a torrential rainstorm. And it was precious. It
was profound. It was just me, the Lord, and the rain.
And I thanked him for the rain. And I thought
of all the Bible verses that talk about the rain.
(03:26):
And as I was talking to my Heavenly Father in
this wonderful language between two people who love each other,
one loves unconditionally and eternally, the other trying to learn
to do just that. Suddenly the rain stopped, the clouds parted,
and just like a painting, shafts of light came through
and just illuminated my front yard, made me get teary eyed.
And then I thought, oh God, it's such a creative God.
(03:47):
I mean, when you think about it, why do we
need four seasons? Why do we have a sky that
changes colors? Why in the fall does it take your
breath away. Why? When we look up in a summer
sky and we see all the stars. Does it take
our breath away? God is the creator. And he reminds
us that he's such. By having us look at the
world around us. And does it surprise you then, from
a God who said, don't frustrate your children, that he
(04:09):
would make so many of his children creative, not only
for their own edification, by the way, but for their
opportunity to glorify God in their creativity. So there's all
kinds of ways to honor God in our creativity. C.S.
Lewis said, God loves creativity. He created the whole universe
and every part of it is beautiful. How beautifully said.
(04:30):
It was interesting too, because when you look at what
Michelangelo said, he said, the greatest danger for most of
us is not that our aim is too high and
we miss it, but that it's too low and we
reach it. Victor Hugo said to create is to be
like God. Ephesians 210 said, we are God's workmanship, created
in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared
(04:50):
in advance for us to do. We're going to talk
about creativity this hour and ownership. And all of this
emanates from a brilliant book entitled To Invent Is Divine.
The author is Doctor James Edwards. He is founder and
CEO of Elite Strategic Services, LLC. He consults on intellectual property,
or IP, as it's known in the biz, antitrust health policy.
(05:13):
He plays leadership and strategic and advisory roles on IP,
particularly patents. He was selected in 1998 as a Lincoln
Fellow of the Claremont Institute, and was awarded an Eagle
Award in 2017 by Eagle Forum Education and Legal Defense Fund.
He is a proud citizen of the great state of
South Carolina. Doctor Edwards, what a joy to have you
(05:34):
join me this hour. And I'm absolutely fascinated by this topic.
And I'll tell you why, because I've talked often on
this program. In fact, we have a guest on regularly
who teaches us how to pray for those who are
in the arts. So often we abandon because so much
of what is created in a post-Christian world is anathema
to having that reflection of God as the creator. In fact,
it's almost an act of rebellion against the creator. But
(05:55):
I have yet to read anybody who's written about the
linkage between creativity and intellectual property. I stopped before I
read the book, and I thought, I never thought about that.
But it is a form of creativity. So I have
to ask you, with your background and all the work
that you do on intellectual property, etc., where did you
start to born to this idea that there is really
(06:16):
a linkage between our relationship with the Lord as creator
and our ability to create?
S6 (06:22):
First, Janet, let me thank you so much for having
me on with you. It's such an honor and a privilege. So, um,
I can't thank you enough. Um, the origin of this journey,
I'll call. It was an invitation to a speech. I've.
I've been a Christian as far back as I can remember. Um,
(06:46):
never doubted Scripture or the, uh, Um, the fact of
God and and Jesus Christ and accepted him early, uh,
as my Savior and then went to work on Capitol Hill,
where I, among other issues I was asked to handle,
(07:08):
included patents and intellectual property issues as a policy matter,
a legislative matter. And so that was my introduction to it, really.
And that's that's the formation. And then leading to the
thesis of the book and so forth, was an invitation
(07:30):
to give a speech. One of the organizations I worked with,
you named it Eagle Forum Education Legal Defense Fund. Um,
I was at a meeting of their leaders in 2019
and their Texas leader and I got talking about intellectual
property and in what Phyllis Schlafly gave a hoot about
patents and, and, um, so she got interested and invited
(07:56):
me to come give a speech on patents from a
biblical perspective and orientation at her church. And so I
did later that year. And, um, when I got back
to Washington, I told a friend how it went, uh,
went well. The event was pretty well attended, had like
80 people or so. And, um, I said patents more
(08:20):
than once and nobody's eyes glazed over. So that was
a good sign. And then he said, well, why don't
you turn the speech into a book? So that that
was the launch of this, this journey.
S1 (08:33):
Wow. Well, it's interesting. And the fact that nobody's eyes
glazed over tells me immediately, Doctor Edwards, that people were
resonating with what you had to say. And I think
part of it is because I think you are so
unique in having made the linkage when we think of creativity,
it's the performing arts. It's painting, it's music, it's photography,
it's writing a play. But the idea of inventing I've not.
(08:56):
And yet it is creating, is it not? Because you
are in some respects making something ex nihilo? It wasn't
there before. It's so unique that, in fact, you have
to knock on the doors of government to say, I'd
like you to protect this idea, my intellectual property, and
I want you to give me a patent so that
it cannot be taken by another person. And I was
thinking also when I was reading your book, Doctor Edwards,
(09:17):
how often Paul says don't build on another man's work.
There's a verse, by the way, for protection, for intellectual property.
We're just getting started on what I think is a
fascinating subject. And what it'll do is it'll get you
to think bigger and deeper and more broadly about creativity,
but particularly as we see the launch of AI and
all kinds of new technologies, is that an opportunity for
(09:38):
us to flourish and to create fascinating book is called
to Invent is Divine back after this. So many in
our culture today are spiritually curious but hesitant about religion.
(10:00):
That's why I've chosen. Have you ever wondered, is this
month's truth to explore how everyday experiences might be the
signpost pointing to deeper biblical truths? As for your copy
of have you ever wondered when you give a gift
of any amount to in the market, call eight 7758.
That's eight 7758 or go to in the market with
Janet Parshall. What a privilege to spend the hour with
(10:23):
Doctor James Edwards. He is the author of the new
book to invent is Divine Creativity and Ownership. And this
is a man who has long been involved with the
issues of intellectual property and patents. And again, you know,
there's a whole section of the law, by the way,
and it's, um, it's arduous by design, but it's necessary.
And so linking that to creativity is, for me personally,
(10:45):
something I never thought about before. And yet when you
think about people inventing and all of the great inventions
out there that have changed our lives forever, why would
we not want to protect that? And is that not?
I mean, yes, that's on a on a temporal plane,
but on an eternal plane. Is not that kind of
creativity reflective of who God is? And that's why the
declaration is made in the title to Invent is Divine. So,
(11:07):
Doctor Edwards, I think it would be great for our friends.
In fact, I I'd love to talk about the false
tension that exists between faith and reason or religion and science.
It doesn't exist. The great leaders of of science have
for years and decades, millennia, more to the point, have
been people who believed in God because they couldn't help
but look around and see form and order and substance
(11:29):
and think there had to be a divine creator out there.
But when you look at also some of those same people,
they were people who very often had multiple, not single,
multiple patents as they were inventing. So do a little
history for us. We'd love to hear some of the
great inventors were and some of their inventions.
S6 (11:46):
Well, there were many that we've never heard of. There
are a few relative few whom we have heard. And
of course, one being Samuel Morse. Samuel Morse invented the telegraph,
as you know. And he was kind of unique because
(12:11):
he was he started out as a painter. He was
an artist. He made a living for a while off
of painting portraits, and he traveled around and painted people's portraits. Uh, he, um,
then came up with the idea of the, the invention
(12:34):
of the telegraph. And it was applying electromagnetism Magnetism through
a single wire to communicate and just. He spent the
rest of his his career. In commercializing that invention. That
(12:55):
is to say, taking it to market. So he proved
the concept. You recall that the at the U.S. Capitol, he, uh,
set up a wire between Washington and Baltimore, and he
communicated a message in Morse code. Uh, and that message was,
(13:16):
what hath God wrought? And he communicated that in his
his colleague, who was stationed at the receiving end in Baltimore,
sent back the same message to demonstrate that it had
been received. And this worked. So then he he built
(13:37):
a business, built businesses around the The Telegraph. It was
so impactful that it. It ensconced him in the middle
of a portrait that's or a painting that's got like
19 famous inventors of the 19th century. And Maurice is
(14:01):
sitting in the middle of the table and everybody's looking
at his telegraph, and that's in the Smithsonian. And then
you look in the Capital Dome, the U.S. Capitol, and
there's the apotheosis of Washington picture painted there. Well, off
(14:21):
to the side in the clouds, there is the image
of of Samuel Morse. I mean, this guy, he was like,
think of whoever the the greatest inventor of our time, uh,
who ever that may be probably the guy who invented the, uh, uh,
the the artificial heart or something like that, you know. Um,
(14:46):
or the latest cancer immunotherapy or something. But I that's
the kind of chronic inventor that that, uh, really is
sort of, uh, representative of, of American invention at its
(15:07):
heyday when we had a gold standard patent system. And
you've got Thomas Edison. He had almost 100 patents. I mean,
that's a lot of invention. Now, he he's credited with
inventing the way to invent the model for inventing, which
was his Menlo Park research and development, uh, facility. And
(15:32):
he had a whole team of people helping him. His.
His assistant, Charles Batchelor, is the one who was trying
out different materials to be a filament in the light bulb,
for instance. And once they came up with one that
extended the the time that the bulb would, would burn
(15:55):
before it expired, uh, they got something that made sense because,
you know, at first the filaments were they they didn't
last very long. Like we're talking minutes. So. So you
got to go farther than that to make it practical. So, uh,
all those kinds of things, um, and those are some
(16:18):
of the inventors, the Wright brothers. The Wright brothers are
interesting in that, um, that there's there's one instance I
report on in the, in the book and that is,
is Wilbur is standing back in Dayton with at that
(16:39):
their bicycle shop and he's talking to a customer. He
just sold a bicycle inner tube of this tire. And
so Wilbur had taken it out and handed it to
him and all that. And he started just talking with
and chatting with the, the customer and kind of without
(17:00):
realizing it, bending the the flimsy box that had come in.
And then it occurred to him, you know, that's what
we can use as, as the means of, of adjusting
our steering, steering our wings.
S1 (17:16):
So that gave birth to the idea. And the rest,
as they say, is flying history. You talk about several
inventors in the book, which I found absolutely fascinating in
and of itself. And you break the book up into
several parts. When we come back, I'm going to talk
about that, and then I'm going to move into this
concept of ownership. Creativity is one thing. Do we create
to give it away? And how does. In God's economy,
(17:38):
how does ownership work? Doctor James Edwards is our guest.
His brand new book is called To Invent is Divine
Creativity and Ownership. Back after this. We're spending the hour
with Doctor James Edwards, who is the founder and CEO
(18:00):
of Elite Strategic Services. He consults on intellectual property, antitrust
and health policy. And he's got a brand new book
out called To Invent Is Divine Creativity and Ownership. And
I noted just before the break that the book is
divided into three sections. The first is about creativity, and
it's really marvelously, theologically rich about this idea that we are,
(18:21):
if we're made in his image, Imago Dei, it makes
perfect sense that we would reflect who he is, not
by accident, but by divine purpose, by the way. And
we are the only part of God's creation that is
made in his image. And so there is a hierarchy.
Human exceptionalism is a very important term. The second part
of the book is about ownership, and I'm going to
get into that in a minute. And the last part
is the patent ecosystem and how difficult it is or
(18:44):
should be to get a patent in today's age. But
let me go to this idea, and I think this
is the most challenging part, Doctor Edwards, because if someone paints,
I mean Michelangelo, for example. So he had patrons and
people would pay, Rembrandt would have patrons, and they would
pay him to paint something. So in essence, there was
an ownership, but it wasn't of the artist himself. He
was paid to, to do, to produce a kind of
(19:04):
a product, and he let it go. Now he can
be remembered forever in the halls of some European art museum,
but the ownership is transferred to the person who buys
the piece of art. When you get into intellectual property,
because it's an idea, it's a concept, Lord willing, it
grows into something you can put your hands on, i.e.
an invention. But this idea of ownership is different because,
(19:27):
particularly for the believer, if you start with a biblio
centric worldview, where does ownership fit in? Because you write
an entire chapter called God the Owner. Talk to me
about that.
S6 (19:38):
Well, if you, as you would know well, um, about
as often as you see God's the Creator throughout Scripture,
from Genesis to Revelation and it's, you know, it's the purpose,
the main point of the sentence, or it's just a
throwaway parenthetical phrase, you know, stuck in there. God who
(20:01):
created the heavens and the earth, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. Um,
and the same thing is true of ownership. God owns
the cattle on a thousand hills. Um, he he is
the the creator and owner of everything that has been made. Um. Jesus, John. Uh,
(20:26):
chapter one, gospel of John, chapter one, and it talks
about in the beginning was the word, and the word
Jesus was with God, and the word was God, and
all things were made by him. And without him was
not anything made that was made. And then you get to, um,
the fact that God claims ownership of every single thing, uh,
(20:48):
and all of this is, is throughout Scripture. Um, but
ownership is the natural. It's demonstrated by those scriptures where
it talks about God owning his creation. That is the
natural consequence of having been creative, having created something you're creative.
(21:15):
For for humans, obviously, we can't create out of, uh,
ex nihilo from nothing, but we can use the natural, uh, Um, materials,
the things that God has put before us and applying
our abilities, our thought, our reason, our observation, all those
kinds of of of facets to bear on solving a problem,
(21:41):
on making an improvement to something that already exists. You know,
here's one broom. And okay, I can make a better
design of that, you know, or here's a one, uh, uh, Clipper.
I can make a better design of that. You know,
you have ideas to improve things, but the fact of
intellectual property and ownership is you are creating property that
(22:07):
did not previously exist. So, you know, granting the occasions
when it's you've assigned the rights of ownership to somebody
else because they're paying you in the lab and you're
an employee, and it's really all happening. You're able to
do that because of the resources provided through the employment
(22:31):
or as you mentioned, the commissioning of a work. Um,
but ownership is the natural consequence of having created something.
And so if you own it, you have just as
God does. Um, this this brings up the the metaphor
(22:52):
that I cite in the book as well, the Potter
and the Clay.
S1 (22:55):
Um.
S6 (22:56):
You know, um, God uses that image to tell us that,
you know, he makes human beings and, you know, different
people in his divine sovereignty makes those decisions. Who's going
to be the ruler of, you know, Siam, who's going
(23:20):
to be the ruler of, uh, of the United States.
And who's going to be, um, be the doctor who
cures cancer. You know, all these sorts of things. He's
the one who makes those purposes, uh, decided, uh, and
in the same way we as human beings are able
to decide what to make, how to make it, and
(23:44):
what to do with it, what its purpose is. So
we we have agency over what we create, and ownership
is a critical part of that.
S1 (23:56):
And coming up to a break, and you took me
exactly where I wanted to go, because when we come back,
let me play the role of the skeptic for a minute.
I'm loving what you're saying. But let me just to
help fine tune our apologetic on this, let me push
back and ask to look at this in a different way.
So this idea of ownership ex-nihilo making something that wasn't
there before and now protecting it for its use, that's
(24:17):
what we're talking about right now. All of this emanating
from the new book by Doctor Edwards called To Invent
is Divine Creativity and Ownership. And that's really what the
book is all about. The linkage between creativity and ownership
makes perfect sense, does it not, from a man who
is an expert in intellectual property? So we've got lots
to talk about. Stick with us. By the way, if
you're interested in a copy of this book, if this
(24:37):
really is fire in your bones on this topic, go
to the website in the market with Janet parshall.org. Click
on the red box. It says Program Details and audio.
It'll take you to the information page. I've got a
link you can click on through to figure out how
to get your copy back after this. Tired of the endless,
(24:58):
biased spin you hear on mainstream media and in the market,
we're using God's Word as our guide as we examine
today's events, and we want you to be informed and
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or go online to in the end the market with
(25:20):
Janet Parshall. Doctor James Edwards is with us. He is
founder and CEO of Elite Strategic Services. He consults on
intellectual property, antitrust and health policy. He plays leadership, strategic
and advisory roles on intellectual property, particularly in the area
of patents, which comes through loud and clear in his
new book. He was selected as a 1998 Lincoln Fellow
(25:43):
at the Claremont Institute, and was awarded an Eagle Award
in 2017 by Eagle Forum Education and Legal Defense Fund.
His brand new book is called To Invent is Divine
Creativity and Ownership, and it's the ownership part that we've
landed on right now. So, Doctor Edwards, let me and again,
I'm doing this just to help us to think more
critically and biblically. So you talked about the ownership. So
(26:04):
someone comes up with an idea. And by the way,
in the section on the creators, you talk about literally
how often creators believe that they got divine inspiration from
the Lord to create something. And the outcome of the
invention in the invention helps our fellow man. So there's
a flourishing aspect to that we can get into later.
That's extremely important. But God owns it all, and you
do a wonderful job biblically pointing out all the fact
(26:26):
that it's all the Lord. So in truth, we are
nothing but stewards. We're not owners, we're stewards. We come
in empty handed. We leave empty handed. We steward the
blessings that God has brought into our life, all of them,
our family, our finances. And yes, even it seems to me,
our creativity. So here's the question to help us think.
So if we were going to be and I'm going
to use these words purposely, Christ like, and I invent something,
(26:48):
why would I want a patent? Why wouldn't I just
give it away for the better use of humankind and
not have ownership and or restrictions within the parameters of
a patent? Why wouldn't I just give it away? Wouldn't
that be the quote Christ like thing to do?
S6 (27:02):
Well, that's certainly your prerogative. As the owner of it.
You can are free to give it away. However, the
default setting is ownership and if it is to be
made something practical and applied broadly, that is to say, commercialized.
(27:24):
Then you have to have something, some tangible basis for um,
for attracting investment to do so. To build a company
around it, to get somebody to manufacture it, to get
somebody to produce it, getting somebody to distribute it. Um,
(27:45):
all of those parts won't happen if you simply give
the invention away without, uh, when it's simply just the patent.
The reason is because of the lack of certainty that
you have control. And that's what the patent does. It
(28:05):
secures rights just like your deed on your home. If
you cannot keep someone from squatting on your property. You
have no secure rights in that property. And that's the
very same thing with intellectual property. You have to have secure, uh, dependable,
(28:28):
enforceable rights. And that is, is the the only thing
that will enable someone to basically not, not monopolize as such,
but to cooperate, collaborate with others to bring it into
something that is useful beyond simply a very small group
(28:51):
of people.
S1 (28:52):
Yeah, I'm very satisfied with that answer. Inherent in what
you're saying is the idea that you protect and shepherd
the idea that the Lord has given you, i.e., whatever
it is you invent, that you're getting patent. Because particularly
for believers now, the world is going to look at
this differently. But as believers, it's like, okay, what can
I do to help my fellow man flourish? If I
just give this away, the idea could die in the cradle.
(29:13):
I don't get very far with the idea of helping
this idea to grow and to help other people. What
about the people who push back and say, oh, but
it's really about making money. You patent it. You're the
one that pockets the gold. Is that a bad thing?
S6 (29:25):
Well, if if you if you think that the having
the means to help other people, giving more to your church,
more to ministries, more to the poor, um, then you
need to have more to give. Where's that going to
come from? It's the fruits of your labor. And that
(29:48):
brings me to the another biblical metaphor that's central in this,
in the book and in this very subject is the
vine and the fig tree. That's the fruits of one's
labor are owned by the owner of the property. Who
who stewards, let's use that word, uh, that property into
(30:10):
growing vine. Growing a fig tree. And this is the picture,
the image of the owner at the end of the day,
resting in the shade of the vine and enjoying the
fruit of the vine and fig tree without a threat.
It's secure. It's peace, it's enjoyment. It's it's the fruits
(30:33):
of one's labor. And I mean, that is not only
in the Bible, it's also John Locke. It's the Founding Fathers,
it's Lincoln. Abe Lincoln is the only president to own
a patent and be an inventor. Um, said that the
fuel of interest is joined to the fire of genius.
(30:54):
That's fuel of interest is ownership. It's the ability to
make to to make money out of what you make.
And other people benefit from having that invention to put
to use for themselves.
S1 (31:11):
Mm. Excellent. Okay, so now you took me where I
wanted to go on the issue of patents. So let me, in.
S6 (31:17):
Fact, this.
S1 (31:18):
Yes. You are. You're very good at this. So you
have a quote from Abraham Lincoln, which I bet most
people listening didn't know that Lincoln had a patent. I'm
going to get emails if I don't ask, what did
he get the patent for?
S6 (31:29):
It was a device for passing over shoals in rivers
and streams.
S1 (31:38):
Interesting. Was that something.
S6 (31:40):
Enabling boats to get over shoals?
S1 (31:43):
Did that happen when he was Abe Lincoln in Illinois
or when he was in a presidential mode?
S6 (31:48):
No, when he was in Illinois.
S1 (31:51):
I wanted rather busy being president, but that's an absolutely
fascinating idea. And you include a quote from Lincoln, the
patent system, this is Lincoln talking, added the fuel of
interest to the fire of genius in the discovery and
production of new and useful things. I think that's absolutely brilliant.
So let me go back, because if Lincoln was talking
about patterns, that tells thinking people that patterns were around
(32:12):
in the 1800s, how far back in the United States
do patterns go?
S6 (32:17):
Well, they go back to colonial times. The the colonies
and then the states. Uh, after we were independent, um,
and during the time of the Articles of Confederation, even the,
the first state patents was like 1780, I believe. And
(32:40):
that was in South Carolina. Yes. My home state happens
to happens to be the leader on the patent system. Uh,
and one of our signers of the Constitution, Charles Pinckney, was,
was instrumental working with James Madison at the constitutional Convention
(33:02):
to add article one, section eight, clause eight, which is
the the passage that enables Congress to pass laws for
patents and copyrights.
S1 (33:14):
Wow. That says so many things. First of all, even
if you're not interested in American jurisprudence or constitutional law
or the writings of the Founding Fathers in their birthing
of this new nation, they knew that creativity had to
be encouraged and protected. I think that says something significant
that early on in our beginnings, we would somehow want
to make sure that the right to be able to
(33:35):
preserve ideas would be there in this new nation. But again,
they would have seen that all over the European continent.
That shouldn't have been a surprise to them. Correct?
S6 (33:43):
That's true. But the the non-European factor in there is
that they were all, uh, born and raised in a
society that was biblically literate, was heavily affected by the
great awakening of like 25 to 30 year long nationwide
(34:09):
colony wide. Religious revival. And George Whitefield. Jonathan Edwards I said, James,
because that's my name. Edwards. Jonathan Edwards, no relation. And
others were going up and down the continent, the Atlantic coast,
(34:31):
preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it was an
outpouring of the Holy Spirit that brought many, many, many
people to Christ. It increased biblical literacy and improved the
spiritual life of the United States. What became the United States?
(34:53):
The then the colonists? Yeah.
S1 (34:57):
You know, wouldn't it be interesting?
S6 (34:58):
That's what affected them. They knew the Bible. Exactly. That's
why George Washington and others quoted from it frequently in
their their correspondence and otherwise.
S1 (35:09):
I don't know if anyone's ever done this study. Doctor Edwards,
but wouldn't it be fascinating if you followed what happened
during the Great Awakenings and whether or not, at the
same time, we saw an uptick in the numbers of
new inventions or requests for patents? In other words, is
there a parallel between a spiritual awakening and a stirring
of creativity?
S6 (35:29):
That's a great question. I'm not aware of it, but, um,
you know, I hadn't read every single book on patents
just yet. I'm working on.
S7 (35:37):
It. Probably close to it nonetheless, which is fascinating.
S1 (35:41):
All right. So now, because it's part and I love
the history and there's so much more in the book.
By the way, friends, again, the book is called to
invent is Divine creativity and Ownership. Now, take me to
the present day because someone might be listening right now
is going, I got this great idea, I would know
where to begin. How hard is it to get a
patent today? And you're hearing the music play. Let me. see,
(36:02):
let me stop. You don't mean to be rude, but
I don't want to have to interrupt you. I'll leave
the question hanging. So for those of you who have
a great idea sitting on that shelf in your mind,
and you'd love to be able to patent it, but
you don't have a clue how you do that. I
have a feeling Doctor Edwards is going to know how
to do it. He talks about this and a whole
lot more. The linkage between creativity and ownership. Ownership then,
portends this question of intellectual property and the preservation of
(36:25):
your creativity through a patent. Really never thought about this before.
God is everywhere, even in the world of inventing. Book
is absolutely fascinating. Doctor James Edwards is the author. Will
take a break. We'll get an answer to that question,
to how hard is it to get a patent when
we return? To invent is Divine Creativity and Ownership. Brand
(36:57):
new book by Doctor James Edwards who just knows so
much about intellectual property and patents. And that's exactly where
we went just before the break. And again, thank you,
Doctor Edwards, for understanding the tyranny of the clock in radio.
So I didn't want to interrupt you as you got
into your answer. So the question and I know I
had people lean closer because I bet there are great
inventors within our listening audience. How difficult is it to
(37:18):
get a patent?
S6 (37:20):
Well, it's it's not easy. I mean, they make it
where you have to have something that is, you know,
qualifies to be patented, and then it's examined for specific things.
How is it useful, i.e. does it solve a problem,
a specific problem? Um, and is it a novel? That is.
(37:45):
Is it new? It, it it may work, but it's
not new. Then it's not patentable. And then there's a
funny term called non-obvious, which is kind of hard to
explain briefly, but it's it's essentially something that is is
unique to the examiner. Being so knowledgeable on that subject
(38:07):
matter would have figured it out based on what was
the state of the art at the time, the patent
the invention was made?
S1 (38:18):
Is this all done? I'm going to say in paperwork,
but that just dates me immediately. Can you do this
all online? Do you have to appear before someone and
show your invention?
S6 (38:28):
You don't have to appear. Um, some prefer to have
a meeting with the examiner. Um, if usually it's virtual
these days. But, uh, a lot of it's done electronically,
of course. Um, but it's it's you have to have
the someone draft the patent who puts it into the proper, um.
(38:55):
Arrangement of things. You have to have certain patent claims.
So crafting the description of the patent is, is something
that the inventor is likely to be able to do best.
But to draft the claims, those are very specific, very
particular and legal in nature. So you're you're drawing up
(39:18):
a legal document effectively and need someone who's knowledgeable about
the patent application system. Um, to do that part on
your own would be, um, a more it would be
riskier than doing doing it, biting the bullet and hiring
a patent attorney.
S1 (39:39):
Exactly right. And for people who haven't figured it out,
this topic is loaded with lawyers. In fact, I was
thinking when you were talking about the review, one of
the things has to be that you didn't steal somebody
else's idea that a patent isn't being granted to something
that's already been invented, and that would take time and research,
it seems to me.
S6 (39:55):
Exactly. They they do a prior the examiners. Well, the
patent lawyer for you. Uh, but then also the patent examiners,
they search what's called the prior art, all the art
that became before in that area, that technology. And so, uh,
they do try to ascertain what is and what is
(40:17):
not out there, um, as, as quite broadly. And, um,
and so that that's something that has to be, be, uh,
to their satisfaction, um, the case that it is unique.
S1 (40:34):
From start to finish. And this is a broad question,
so forgive me, but on average, how long does it
take for someone to get a patent? And I would
imagine it's idea predicated if you have a simple idea,
maybe not as long as a more complex idea.
S6 (40:48):
Yes. And you'll forgive me for not, um, recalling the
overall average, But to your point, that is exactly right.
If it's if it's a simple, straightforward, um, invention, it's
not going to take nearly as long as if you
were inventing something like a new cancer drug or something.
(41:14):
Those things really take take a while. Uh, or something
that's at the cutting edge, like a new, um, semiconductor
or something.
S1 (41:23):
Yeah. Wow. And again, I'm thinking of not someone who
works at some major plant where all they do is
come up with creative ideas. I'm talking about the person
who's got it sitting in the garage, and they're thinking, gosh,
if I could just get this idea out there. So
there's going to be legal hoops, there's going to be paperwork,
you're going to have to fill things out. It's going
to take time for all the reasons you just said.
Does it take money to get a patent?
S6 (41:45):
Yes. There are fees associated with it. But, um, a
good chunk of change will be going toward the, uh,
the attorney who helps you through that whole process. And
it's an extended process. So, um, they're they're doing their
due diligence at the patent office. The government's job is
(42:07):
to ascertain that this is, in fact, new property that
did not previously exist, and also to determine the metes
and bounds, the boundary lines of that property. So it's
a it's a it's a complicated, uh, you know, takes
takes a while for the examination to, to, to take
(42:30):
place regardless of the sophistication of the invention.
S1 (42:34):
Um.
S6 (42:35):
You know, that's mean, you know, a fair amount of change,
some sums going to be, uh, much more expensive because
of the, the iterations it has to go through in
terms of answering questions back and forth and all this. Else.
S1 (42:50):
So that raises the question of stifling creativity. And you
talk about the fact that there have been some legal
developments that really force a separation between the two things
that you've linked together creativity and ownership. What is causing
a wedge between those two?
S6 (43:06):
Well, as I as I indicated, the the, the Founding
Fathers essentially put in place a patent system that for
about 200 years stood the test of time and became
the world's gold standard. It moved the United States from
a backwater, an agrarian society, into the world's leading industrial
(43:31):
and innovative power. So it worked for a long time.
And what has happened is a number of legal challenges
and legal opinions, a lot of legislation weakening patents, taking,
patent rights, making them tenuous, attenuated as opposed to secure.
S1 (43:57):
Yeah, that sort of defeats the whole purpose, does it not? Well,
Doctor Edwards, absolutely fascinating. I feel, in truth, that I've
just barely scratched the surface, but I hope I've planted
a seed of curiosity in the hearts and minds of
those who really celebrate the fact that God has made
him creative. Maybe even have an idea that you would
love to see patent and you understand that is not
by accident. There's really divine inspiration there that this is
(44:21):
God making you creative, which reflects his glory, by the way.
And in so doing, perhaps what you're thinking about inventing
or on the cusp of getting a patent helps your
fellow man flourish as well. So God's in it all,
is he not? I bet you didn't think about this
before today. And if you want to think about it more,
and I want you to get a copy of Doctor
Edwards brand new book to invent his divine creativity and ownership.
I've got it linked to my information page. Doctor Edwards,
(44:43):
thank you for a memorable conversation. Thank you friends. We'll
see you next time on In the Market with Janet Parshall.
Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
and I truly hope you hear something that edifies encourage, equips, enlightens,
and then gets you out there in the marketplace of ideas.
But before you go, I want to tell you about
this month's truth tool. It's called Have You Ever Wondered?
And I absolutely love this topic because if you're like me,
going out into the night sky and looking up and
seeing a million stars, don't you just stop and think
(00:22):
about God? And are you not in a moment of
awe and wonder or looking out over the vast expanse
of an ocean and you start thinking, what is man,
that thou art mindful of him? And it makes you
wonder about the magnificence of God? I think that sense
of wonder was put there on purpose, and this wonderful
book includes a composite of multiple authors who have written
(00:42):
from their perspective as a scientist, or a historian, or
a mathematician or an artist, on why they all have
this sense of awe through the work that they do.
In other words, the heavens declare the glory. And as
it tells us in Romans, we are really without excuse
because his handiwork is everywhere. And this book invites you
to walk through the chapters written by people who all
(01:03):
have a sense of awe and wonder when it comes
to God through their various disciplines in life. It's an
amazing book and it's yours. For a gift of any amount.
Just call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58. Ask
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(01:24):
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(01:46):
becoming a partial partner or asking for this month's truth tool.
Have you ever wondered? And now please enjoy the broadcast.
S2 (01:53):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:55):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (01:57):
The Americans worshiping government over God?
S3 (02:00):
Extremely rare safety move by a nation.
S5 (02:02):
17 years. The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S3 (02:06):
This is not.
S1 (02:20):
Hi friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall.
I am thrilled we're going to spend this hour together. Okay.
We're going to think critically and biblically. And what do
I always say after I make that declaration? That is
not a multiple choice test. It's not an either or.
It is a both. And you come to faith in
Jesus Christ. Your heart is transformed, but your mind is renewed.
You're a different person. And I've made the declaration before,
(02:44):
and I think so many of you would have to
agree that coming to faith in Jesus Christ is like
stepping out of a black and white movie into Technicolor,
and you suddenly start looking at the world around you.
And yes, we are east of Eden and the world
is turned upside down and good is called evil. Evil
is called good. And yet man's doing what's right in
his own eyes. But in the midst of all of that,
(03:05):
Romans reminds us, we're without excuse because God's presence is
made manifest. He is everywhere. The heavens declare the glory.
Had the privilege of sitting on my front porch this
weekend during a torrential rainstorm. And it was precious. It
was profound. It was just me, the Lord, and the rain.
And I thanked him for the rain. And I thought
of all the Bible verses that talk about the rain.
(03:26):
And as I was talking to my Heavenly Father in
this wonderful language between two people who love each other,
one loves unconditionally and eternally, the other trying to learn
to do just that. Suddenly the rain stopped, the clouds parted,
and just like a painting, shafts of light came through
and just illuminated my front yard, made me get teary eyed.
And then I thought, oh God, it's such a creative God.
(03:47):
I mean, when you think about it, why do we
need four seasons? Why do we have a sky that
changes colors? Why in the fall does it take your
breath away. Why? When we look up in a summer
sky and we see all the stars. Does it take
our breath away? God is the creator. And he reminds
us that he's such. By having us look at the
world around us. And does it surprise you then, from
a God who said, don't frustrate your children, that he
(04:09):
would make so many of his children creative, not only
for their own edification, by the way, but for their
opportunity to glorify God in their creativity. So there's all
kinds of ways to honor God in our creativity. C.S.
Lewis said, God loves creativity. He created the whole universe
and every part of it is beautiful. How beautifully said.
(04:30):
It was interesting too, because when you look at what
Michelangelo said, he said, the greatest danger for most of
us is not that our aim is too high and
we miss it, but that it's too low and we
reach it. Victor Hugo said to create is to be
like God. Ephesians 210 said, we are God's workmanship, created
in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared
(04:50):
in advance for us to do. We're going to talk
about creativity this hour and ownership. And all of this
emanates from a brilliant book entitled To Invent Is Divine.
The author is Doctor James Edwards. He is founder and
CEO of Elite Strategic Services, LLC. He consults on intellectual property,
or IP, as it's known in the biz, antitrust health policy.
(05:13):
He plays leadership and strategic and advisory roles on IP,
particularly patents. He was selected in 1998 as a Lincoln
Fellow of the Claremont Institute, and was awarded an Eagle
Award in 2017 by Eagle Forum Education and Legal Defense Fund.
He is a proud citizen of the great state of
South Carolina. Doctor Edwards, what a joy to have you
(05:34):
join me this hour. And I'm absolutely fascinated by this topic.
And I'll tell you why, because I've talked often on
this program. In fact, we have a guest on regularly
who teaches us how to pray for those who are
in the arts. So often we abandon because so much
of what is created in a post-Christian world is anathema
to having that reflection of God as the creator. In fact,
it's almost an act of rebellion against the creator. But
(05:55):
I have yet to read anybody who's written about the
linkage between creativity and intellectual property. I stopped before I
read the book, and I thought, I never thought about that.
But it is a form of creativity. So I have
to ask you, with your background and all the work
that you do on intellectual property, etc., where did you
start to born to this idea that there is really
(06:16):
a linkage between our relationship with the Lord as creator
and our ability to create?
S6 (06:22):
First, Janet, let me thank you so much for having
me on with you. It's such an honor and a privilege. So, um,
I can't thank you enough. Um, the origin of this journey,
I'll call. It was an invitation to a speech. I've.
I've been a Christian as far back as I can remember. Um,
(06:46):
never doubted Scripture or the, uh, Um, the fact of
God and and Jesus Christ and accepted him early, uh,
as my Savior and then went to work on Capitol Hill,
where I, among other issues I was asked to handle,
(07:08):
included patents and intellectual property issues as a policy matter,
a legislative matter. And so that was my introduction to it, really.
And that's that's the formation. And then leading to the
thesis of the book and so forth, was an invitation
(07:30):
to give a speech. One of the organizations I worked with,
you named it Eagle Forum Education Legal Defense Fund. Um,
I was at a meeting of their leaders in 2019
and their Texas leader and I got talking about intellectual
property and in what Phyllis Schlafly gave a hoot about
patents and, and, um, so she got interested and invited
(07:56):
me to come give a speech on patents from a
biblical perspective and orientation at her church. And so I
did later that year. And, um, when I got back
to Washington, I told a friend how it went, uh,
went well. The event was pretty well attended, had like
80 people or so. And, um, I said patents more
(08:20):
than once and nobody's eyes glazed over. So that was
a good sign. And then he said, well, why don't
you turn the speech into a book? So that that
was the launch of this, this journey.
S1 (08:33):
Wow. Well, it's interesting. And the fact that nobody's eyes
glazed over tells me immediately, Doctor Edwards, that people were
resonating with what you had to say. And I think
part of it is because I think you are so
unique in having made the linkage when we think of creativity,
it's the performing arts. It's painting, it's music, it's photography,
it's writing a play. But the idea of inventing I've not.
(08:56):
And yet it is creating, is it not? Because you
are in some respects making something ex nihilo? It wasn't
there before. It's so unique that, in fact, you have
to knock on the doors of government to say, I'd
like you to protect this idea, my intellectual property, and
I want you to give me a patent so that
it cannot be taken by another person. And I was
thinking also when I was reading your book, Doctor Edwards,
(09:17):
how often Paul says don't build on another man's work.
There's a verse, by the way, for protection, for intellectual property.
We're just getting started on what I think is a
fascinating subject. And what it'll do is it'll get you
to think bigger and deeper and more broadly about creativity,
but particularly as we see the launch of AI and
all kinds of new technologies, is that an opportunity for
(09:38):
us to flourish and to create fascinating book is called
to Invent is Divine back after this. So many in
our culture today are spiritually curious but hesitant about religion.
(10:00):
That's why I've chosen. Have you ever wondered, is this
month's truth to explore how everyday experiences might be the
signpost pointing to deeper biblical truths? As for your copy
of have you ever wondered when you give a gift
of any amount to in the market, call eight 7758.
That's eight 7758 or go to in the market with
Janet Parshall. What a privilege to spend the hour with
(10:23):
Doctor James Edwards. He is the author of the new
book to invent is Divine Creativity and Ownership. And this
is a man who has long been involved with the
issues of intellectual property and patents. And again, you know,
there's a whole section of the law, by the way,
and it's, um, it's arduous by design, but it's necessary.
And so linking that to creativity is, for me personally,
(10:45):
something I never thought about before. And yet when you
think about people inventing and all of the great inventions
out there that have changed our lives forever, why would
we not want to protect that? And is that not?
I mean, yes, that's on a on a temporal plane,
but on an eternal plane. Is not that kind of
creativity reflective of who God is? And that's why the
declaration is made in the title to Invent is Divine. So,
(11:07):
Doctor Edwards, I think it would be great for our friends.
In fact, I I'd love to talk about the false
tension that exists between faith and reason or religion and science.
It doesn't exist. The great leaders of of science have
for years and decades, millennia, more to the point, have
been people who believed in God because they couldn't help
but look around and see form and order and substance
(11:29):
and think there had to be a divine creator out there.
But when you look at also some of those same people,
they were people who very often had multiple, not single,
multiple patents as they were inventing. So do a little
history for us. We'd love to hear some of the
great inventors were and some of their inventions.
S6 (11:46):
Well, there were many that we've never heard of. There
are a few relative few whom we have heard. And
of course, one being Samuel Morse. Samuel Morse invented the telegraph,
as you know. And he was kind of unique because
(12:11):
he was he started out as a painter. He was
an artist. He made a living for a while off
of painting portraits, and he traveled around and painted people's portraits. Uh, he, um,
then came up with the idea of the, the invention
(12:34):
of the telegraph. And it was applying electromagnetism Magnetism through
a single wire to communicate and just. He spent the
rest of his his career. In commercializing that invention. That
(12:55):
is to say, taking it to market. So he proved
the concept. You recall that the at the U.S. Capitol, he, uh,
set up a wire between Washington and Baltimore, and he
communicated a message in Morse code. Uh, and that message was,
(13:16):
what hath God wrought? And he communicated that in his
his colleague, who was stationed at the receiving end in Baltimore,
sent back the same message to demonstrate that it had
been received. And this worked. So then he he built
(13:37):
a business, built businesses around the The Telegraph. It was
so impactful that it. It ensconced him in the middle
of a portrait that's or a painting that's got like
19 famous inventors of the 19th century. And Maurice is
(14:01):
sitting in the middle of the table and everybody's looking
at his telegraph, and that's in the Smithsonian. And then
you look in the Capital Dome, the U.S. Capitol, and
there's the apotheosis of Washington picture painted there. Well, off
(14:21):
to the side in the clouds, there is the image
of of Samuel Morse. I mean, this guy, he was like,
think of whoever the the greatest inventor of our time, uh,
who ever that may be probably the guy who invented the, uh, uh,
the the artificial heart or something like that, you know. Um,
(14:46):
or the latest cancer immunotherapy or something. But I that's
the kind of chronic inventor that that, uh, really is
sort of, uh, representative of, of American invention at its
(15:07):
heyday when we had a gold standard patent system. And
you've got Thomas Edison. He had almost 100 patents. I mean,
that's a lot of invention. Now, he he's credited with
inventing the way to invent the model for inventing, which
was his Menlo Park research and development, uh, facility. And
(15:32):
he had a whole team of people helping him. His.
His assistant, Charles Batchelor, is the one who was trying
out different materials to be a filament in the light bulb,
for instance. And once they came up with one that
extended the the time that the bulb would, would burn
(15:55):
before it expired, uh, they got something that made sense because,
you know, at first the filaments were they they didn't
last very long. Like we're talking minutes. So. So you
got to go farther than that to make it practical. So, uh,
all those kinds of things, um, and those are some
(16:18):
of the inventors, the Wright brothers. The Wright brothers are
interesting in that, um, that there's there's one instance I
report on in the, in the book and that is,
is Wilbur is standing back in Dayton with at that
(16:39):
their bicycle shop and he's talking to a customer. He
just sold a bicycle inner tube of this tire. And
so Wilbur had taken it out and handed it to
him and all that. And he started just talking with
and chatting with the, the customer and kind of without
(17:00):
realizing it, bending the the flimsy box that had come in.
And then it occurred to him, you know, that's what
we can use as, as the means of, of adjusting
our steering, steering our wings.
S1 (17:16):
So that gave birth to the idea. And the rest,
as they say, is flying history. You talk about several
inventors in the book, which I found absolutely fascinating in
and of itself. And you break the book up into
several parts. When we come back, I'm going to talk
about that, and then I'm going to move into this
concept of ownership. Creativity is one thing. Do we create
to give it away? And how does. In God's economy,
(17:38):
how does ownership work? Doctor James Edwards is our guest.
His brand new book is called To Invent is Divine
Creativity and Ownership. Back after this. We're spending the hour
with Doctor James Edwards, who is the founder and CEO
(18:00):
of Elite Strategic Services. He consults on intellectual property, antitrust
and health policy. And he's got a brand new book
out called To Invent Is Divine Creativity and Ownership. And
I noted just before the break that the book is
divided into three sections. The first is about creativity, and
it's really marvelously, theologically rich about this idea that we are,
(18:21):
if we're made in his image, Imago Dei, it makes
perfect sense that we would reflect who he is, not
by accident, but by divine purpose, by the way. And
we are the only part of God's creation that is
made in his image. And so there is a hierarchy.
Human exceptionalism is a very important term. The second part
of the book is about ownership, and I'm going to
get into that in a minute. And the last part
is the patent ecosystem and how difficult it is or
(18:44):
should be to get a patent in today's age. But
let me go to this idea, and I think this
is the most challenging part, Doctor Edwards, because if someone paints,
I mean Michelangelo, for example. So he had patrons and
people would pay, Rembrandt would have patrons, and they would
pay him to paint something. So in essence, there was
an ownership, but it wasn't of the artist himself. He
was paid to, to do, to produce a kind of
(19:04):
a product, and he let it go. Now he can
be remembered forever in the halls of some European art museum,
but the ownership is transferred to the person who buys
the piece of art. When you get into intellectual property,
because it's an idea, it's a concept, Lord willing, it
grows into something you can put your hands on, i.e.
an invention. But this idea of ownership is different because,
(19:27):
particularly for the believer, if you start with a biblio
centric worldview, where does ownership fit in? Because you write
an entire chapter called God the Owner. Talk to me
about that.
S6 (19:38):
Well, if you, as you would know well, um, about
as often as you see God's the Creator throughout Scripture,
from Genesis to Revelation and it's, you know, it's the purpose,
the main point of the sentence, or it's just a
throwaway parenthetical phrase, you know, stuck in there. God who
(20:01):
created the heavens and the earth, blah blah, blah, blah, blah. Um,
and the same thing is true of ownership. God owns
the cattle on a thousand hills. Um, he he is
the the creator and owner of everything that has been made. Um. Jesus, John. Uh,
(20:26):
chapter one, gospel of John, chapter one, and it talks
about in the beginning was the word, and the word
Jesus was with God, and the word was God, and
all things were made by him. And without him was
not anything made that was made. And then you get to, um,
the fact that God claims ownership of every single thing, uh,
(20:48):
and all of this is, is throughout Scripture. Um, but
ownership is the natural. It's demonstrated by those scriptures where
it talks about God owning his creation. That is the
natural consequence of having been creative, having created something you're creative.
(21:15):
For for humans, obviously, we can't create out of, uh,
ex nihilo from nothing, but we can use the natural, uh, Um, materials,
the things that God has put before us and applying
our abilities, our thought, our reason, our observation, all those
kinds of of of facets to bear on solving a problem,
(21:41):
on making an improvement to something that already exists. You know,
here's one broom. And okay, I can make a better
design of that, you know, or here's a one, uh, uh, Clipper.
I can make a better design of that. You know,
you have ideas to improve things, but the fact of
intellectual property and ownership is you are creating property that
(22:07):
did not previously exist. So, you know, granting the occasions
when it's you've assigned the rights of ownership to somebody
else because they're paying you in the lab and you're
an employee, and it's really all happening. You're able to
do that because of the resources provided through the employment
(22:31):
or as you mentioned, the commissioning of a work. Um,
but ownership is the natural consequence of having created something.
And so if you own it, you have just as
God does. Um, this this brings up the the metaphor
(22:52):
that I cite in the book as well, the Potter
and the Clay.
S1 (22:55):
Um.
S6 (22:56):
You know, um, God uses that image to tell us that,
you know, he makes human beings and, you know, different
people in his divine sovereignty makes those decisions. Who's going
to be the ruler of, you know, Siam, who's going
(23:20):
to be the ruler of, uh, of the United States.
And who's going to be, um, be the doctor who
cures cancer. You know, all these sorts of things. He's
the one who makes those purposes, uh, decided, uh, and
in the same way we as human beings are able
to decide what to make, how to make it, and
(23:44):
what to do with it, what its purpose is. So
we we have agency over what we create, and ownership
is a critical part of that.
S1 (23:56):
And coming up to a break, and you took me
exactly where I wanted to go, because when we come back,
let me play the role of the skeptic for a minute.
I'm loving what you're saying. But let me just to
help fine tune our apologetic on this, let me push
back and ask to look at this in a different way.
So this idea of ownership ex-nihilo making something that wasn't
there before and now protecting it for its use, that's
(24:17):
what we're talking about right now. All of this emanating
from the new book by Doctor Edwards called To Invent
is Divine Creativity and Ownership. And that's really what the
book is all about. The linkage between creativity and ownership
makes perfect sense, does it not, from a man who
is an expert in intellectual property? So we've got lots
to talk about. Stick with us. By the way, if
you're interested in a copy of this book, if this
(24:37):
really is fire in your bones on this topic, go
to the website in the market with Janet parshall.org. Click
on the red box. It says Program Details and audio.
It'll take you to the information page. I've got a
link you can click on through to figure out how
to get your copy back after this. Tired of the endless,
(24:58):
biased spin you hear on mainstream media and in the market,
we're using God's Word as our guide as we examine
today's events, and we want you to be informed and
bold about his truth. This is a listener supported program,
so if you value what you hear and you want
us to continue on your station, become a partial partner
with your monthly support, call eight 7758. That's eight 7758
or go online to in the end the market with
(25:20):
Janet Parshall. Doctor James Edwards is with us. He is
founder and CEO of Elite Strategic Services. He consults on
intellectual property, antitrust and health policy. He plays leadership, strategic
and advisory roles on intellectual property, particularly in the area
of patents, which comes through loud and clear in his
new book. He was selected as a 1998 Lincoln Fellow
(25:43):
at the Claremont Institute, and was awarded an Eagle Award
in 2017 by Eagle Forum Education and Legal Defense Fund.
His brand new book is called To Invent is Divine
Creativity and Ownership, and it's the ownership part that we've
landed on right now. So, Doctor Edwards, let me and again,
I'm doing this just to help us to think more
critically and biblically. So you talked about the ownership. So
(26:04):
someone comes up with an idea. And by the way,
in the section on the creators, you talk about literally
how often creators believe that they got divine inspiration from
the Lord to create something. And the outcome of the
invention in the invention helps our fellow man. So there's
a flourishing aspect to that we can get into later.
That's extremely important. But God owns it all, and you
do a wonderful job biblically pointing out all the fact
(26:26):
that it's all the Lord. So in truth, we are
nothing but stewards. We're not owners, we're stewards. We come
in empty handed. We leave empty handed. We steward the
blessings that God has brought into our life, all of them,
our family, our finances. And yes, even it seems to me,
our creativity. So here's the question to help us think.
So if we were going to be and I'm going
to use these words purposely, Christ like, and I invent something,
(26:48):
why would I want a patent? Why wouldn't I just
give it away for the better use of humankind and
not have ownership and or restrictions within the parameters of
a patent? Why wouldn't I just give it away? Wouldn't
that be the quote Christ like thing to do?
S6 (27:02):
Well, that's certainly your prerogative. As the owner of it.
You can are free to give it away. However, the
default setting is ownership and if it is to be
made something practical and applied broadly, that is to say, commercialized.
(27:24):
Then you have to have something, some tangible basis for um,
for attracting investment to do so. To build a company
around it, to get somebody to manufacture it, to get
somebody to produce it, getting somebody to distribute it. Um,
(27:45):
all of those parts won't happen if you simply give
the invention away without, uh, when it's simply just the patent.
The reason is because of the lack of certainty that
you have control. And that's what the patent does. It
(28:05):
secures rights just like your deed on your home. If
you cannot keep someone from squatting on your property. You
have no secure rights in that property. And that's the
very same thing with intellectual property. You have to have secure, uh, dependable,
(28:28):
enforceable rights. And that is, is the the only thing
that will enable someone to basically not, not monopolize as such,
but to cooperate, collaborate with others to bring it into
something that is useful beyond simply a very small group
(28:51):
of people.
S1 (28:52):
Yeah, I'm very satisfied with that answer. Inherent in what
you're saying is the idea that you protect and shepherd
the idea that the Lord has given you, i.e., whatever
it is you invent, that you're getting patent. Because particularly
for believers now, the world is going to look at
this differently. But as believers, it's like, okay, what can
I do to help my fellow man flourish? If I
just give this away, the idea could die in the cradle.
(29:13):
I don't get very far with the idea of helping
this idea to grow and to help other people. What
about the people who push back and say, oh, but
it's really about making money. You patent it. You're the
one that pockets the gold. Is that a bad thing?
S6 (29:25):
Well, if if you if you think that the having
the means to help other people, giving more to your church,
more to ministries, more to the poor, um, then you
need to have more to give. Where's that going to
come from? It's the fruits of your labor. And that
(29:48):
brings me to the another biblical metaphor that's central in this,
in the book and in this very subject is the
vine and the fig tree. That's the fruits of one's
labor are owned by the owner of the property. Who
who stewards, let's use that word, uh, that property into
(30:10):
growing vine. Growing a fig tree. And this is the picture,
the image of the owner at the end of the day,
resting in the shade of the vine and enjoying the
fruit of the vine and fig tree without a threat.
It's secure. It's peace, it's enjoyment. It's it's the fruits
(30:33):
of one's labor. And I mean, that is not only
in the Bible, it's also John Locke. It's the Founding Fathers,
it's Lincoln. Abe Lincoln is the only president to own
a patent and be an inventor. Um, said that the
fuel of interest is joined to the fire of genius.
(30:54):
That's fuel of interest is ownership. It's the ability to
make to to make money out of what you make.
And other people benefit from having that invention to put
to use for themselves.
S1 (31:11):
Mm. Excellent. Okay, so now you took me where I
wanted to go on the issue of patents. So let me, in.
S6 (31:17):
Fact, this.
S1 (31:18):
Yes. You are. You're very good at this. So you
have a quote from Abraham Lincoln, which I bet most
people listening didn't know that Lincoln had a patent. I'm
going to get emails if I don't ask, what did
he get the patent for?
S6 (31:29):
It was a device for passing over shoals in rivers
and streams.
S1 (31:38):
Interesting. Was that something.
S6 (31:40):
Enabling boats to get over shoals?
S1 (31:43):
Did that happen when he was Abe Lincoln in Illinois
or when he was in a presidential mode?
S6 (31:48):
No, when he was in Illinois.
S1 (31:51):
I wanted rather busy being president, but that's an absolutely
fascinating idea. And you include a quote from Lincoln, the
patent system, this is Lincoln talking, added the fuel of
interest to the fire of genius in the discovery and
production of new and useful things. I think that's absolutely brilliant.
So let me go back, because if Lincoln was talking
about patterns, that tells thinking people that patterns were around
(32:12):
in the 1800s, how far back in the United States
do patterns go?
S6 (32:17):
Well, they go back to colonial times. The the colonies
and then the states. Uh, after we were independent, um,
and during the time of the Articles of Confederation, even the,
the first state patents was like 1780, I believe. And
(32:40):
that was in South Carolina. Yes. My home state happens
to happens to be the leader on the patent system. Uh,
and one of our signers of the Constitution, Charles Pinckney, was,
was instrumental working with James Madison at the constitutional Convention
(33:02):
to add article one, section eight, clause eight, which is
the the passage that enables Congress to pass laws for
patents and copyrights.
S1 (33:14):
Wow. That says so many things. First of all, even
if you're not interested in American jurisprudence or constitutional law
or the writings of the Founding Fathers in their birthing
of this new nation, they knew that creativity had to
be encouraged and protected. I think that says something significant
that early on in our beginnings, we would somehow want
to make sure that the right to be able to
(33:35):
preserve ideas would be there in this new nation. But again,
they would have seen that all over the European continent.
That shouldn't have been a surprise to them. Correct?
S6 (33:43):
That's true. But the the non-European factor in there is
that they were all, uh, born and raised in a
society that was biblically literate, was heavily affected by the
great awakening of like 25 to 30 year long nationwide
(34:09):
colony wide. Religious revival. And George Whitefield. Jonathan Edwards I said, James,
because that's my name. Edwards. Jonathan Edwards, no relation. And
others were going up and down the continent, the Atlantic coast,
(34:31):
preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ. And it was an
outpouring of the Holy Spirit that brought many, many, many
people to Christ. It increased biblical literacy and improved the
spiritual life of the United States. What became the United States?
(34:53):
The then the colonists? Yeah.
S1 (34:57):
You know, wouldn't it be interesting?
S6 (34:58):
That's what affected them. They knew the Bible. Exactly. That's
why George Washington and others quoted from it frequently in
their their correspondence and otherwise.
S1 (35:09):
I don't know if anyone's ever done this study. Doctor Edwards,
but wouldn't it be fascinating if you followed what happened
during the Great Awakenings and whether or not, at the
same time, we saw an uptick in the numbers of
new inventions or requests for patents? In other words, is
there a parallel between a spiritual awakening and a stirring
of creativity?
S6 (35:29):
That's a great question. I'm not aware of it, but, um,
you know, I hadn't read every single book on patents
just yet. I'm working on.
S7 (35:37):
It. Probably close to it nonetheless, which is fascinating.
S1 (35:41):
All right. So now, because it's part and I love
the history and there's so much more in the book.
By the way, friends, again, the book is called to
invent is Divine creativity and Ownership. Now, take me to
the present day because someone might be listening right now
is going, I got this great idea, I would know
where to begin. How hard is it to get a
patent today? And you're hearing the music play. Let me. see,
(36:02):
let me stop. You don't mean to be rude, but
I don't want to have to interrupt you. I'll leave
the question hanging. So for those of you who have
a great idea sitting on that shelf in your mind,
and you'd love to be able to patent it, but
you don't have a clue how you do that. I
have a feeling Doctor Edwards is going to know how
to do it. He talks about this and a whole
lot more. The linkage between creativity and ownership. Ownership then,
portends this question of intellectual property and the preservation of
(36:25):
your creativity through a patent. Really never thought about this before.
God is everywhere, even in the world of inventing. Book
is absolutely fascinating. Doctor James Edwards is the author. Will
take a break. We'll get an answer to that question,
to how hard is it to get a patent when
we return? To invent is Divine Creativity and Ownership. Brand
(36:57):
new book by Doctor James Edwards who just knows so
much about intellectual property and patents. And that's exactly where
we went just before the break. And again, thank you,
Doctor Edwards, for understanding the tyranny of the clock in radio.
So I didn't want to interrupt you as you got
into your answer. So the question and I know I
had people lean closer because I bet there are great
inventors within our listening audience. How difficult is it to
(37:18):
get a patent?
S6 (37:20):
Well, it's it's not easy. I mean, they make it
where you have to have something that is, you know,
qualifies to be patented, and then it's examined for specific things.
How is it useful, i.e. does it solve a problem,
a specific problem? Um, and is it a novel? That is.
(37:45):
Is it new? It, it it may work, but it's
not new. Then it's not patentable. And then there's a
funny term called non-obvious, which is kind of hard to
explain briefly, but it's it's essentially something that is is
unique to the examiner. Being so knowledgeable on that subject
(38:07):
matter would have figured it out based on what was
the state of the art at the time, the patent
the invention was made?
S1 (38:18):
Is this all done? I'm going to say in paperwork,
but that just dates me immediately. Can you do this
all online? Do you have to appear before someone and
show your invention?
S6 (38:28):
You don't have to appear. Um, some prefer to have
a meeting with the examiner. Um, if usually it's virtual
these days. But, uh, a lot of it's done electronically,
of course. Um, but it's it's you have to have
the someone draft the patent who puts it into the proper, um.
(38:55):
Arrangement of things. You have to have certain patent claims.
So crafting the description of the patent is, is something
that the inventor is likely to be able to do best.
But to draft the claims, those are very specific, very
particular and legal in nature. So you're you're drawing up
(39:18):
a legal document effectively and need someone who's knowledgeable about
the patent application system. Um, to do that part on
your own would be, um, a more it would be
riskier than doing doing it, biting the bullet and hiring
a patent attorney.
S1 (39:39):
Exactly right. And for people who haven't figured it out,
this topic is loaded with lawyers. In fact, I was
thinking when you were talking about the review, one of
the things has to be that you didn't steal somebody
else's idea that a patent isn't being granted to something
that's already been invented, and that would take time and research,
it seems to me.
S6 (39:55):
Exactly. They they do a prior the examiners. Well, the
patent lawyer for you. Uh, but then also the patent examiners,
they search what's called the prior art, all the art
that became before in that area, that technology. And so, uh,
they do try to ascertain what is and what is
(40:17):
not out there, um, as, as quite broadly. And, um,
and so that that's something that has to be, be, uh,
to their satisfaction, um, the case that it is unique.
S1 (40:34):
From start to finish. And this is a broad question,
so forgive me, but on average, how long does it
take for someone to get a patent? And I would
imagine it's idea predicated if you have a simple idea,
maybe not as long as a more complex idea.
S6 (40:48):
Yes. And you'll forgive me for not, um, recalling the
overall average, But to your point, that is exactly right.
If it's if it's a simple, straightforward, um, invention, it's
not going to take nearly as long as if you
were inventing something like a new cancer drug or something.
(41:14):
Those things really take take a while. Uh, or something
that's at the cutting edge, like a new, um, semiconductor
or something.
S1 (41:23):
Yeah. Wow. And again, I'm thinking of not someone who
works at some major plant where all they do is
come up with creative ideas. I'm talking about the person
who's got it sitting in the garage, and they're thinking, gosh,
if I could just get this idea out there. So
there's going to be legal hoops, there's going to be paperwork,
you're going to have to fill things out. It's going
to take time for all the reasons you just said.
Does it take money to get a patent?
S6 (41:45):
Yes. There are fees associated with it. But, um, a
good chunk of change will be going toward the, uh,
the attorney who helps you through that whole process. And
it's an extended process. So, um, they're they're doing their
due diligence at the patent office. The government's job is
(42:07):
to ascertain that this is, in fact, new property that
did not previously exist, and also to determine the metes
and bounds, the boundary lines of that property. So it's
a it's a it's a complicated, uh, you know, takes
takes a while for the examination to, to, to take
(42:30):
place regardless of the sophistication of the invention.
S1 (42:34):
Um.
S6 (42:35):
You know, that's mean, you know, a fair amount of change,
some sums going to be, uh, much more expensive because
of the, the iterations it has to go through in
terms of answering questions back and forth and all this. Else.
S1 (42:50):
So that raises the question of stifling creativity. And you
talk about the fact that there have been some legal
developments that really force a separation between the two things
that you've linked together creativity and ownership. What is causing
a wedge between those two?
S6 (43:06):
Well, as I as I indicated, the the, the Founding
Fathers essentially put in place a patent system that for
about 200 years stood the test of time and became
the world's gold standard. It moved the United States from
a backwater, an agrarian society, into the world's leading industrial
(43:31):
and innovative power. So it worked for a long time.
And what has happened is a number of legal challenges
and legal opinions, a lot of legislation weakening patents, taking,
patent rights, making them tenuous, attenuated as opposed to secure.
S1 (43:57):
Yeah, that sort of defeats the whole purpose, does it not? Well,
Doctor Edwards, absolutely fascinating. I feel, in truth, that I've
just barely scratched the surface, but I hope I've planted
a seed of curiosity in the hearts and minds of
those who really celebrate the fact that God has made
him creative. Maybe even have an idea that you would
love to see patent and you understand that is not
by accident. There's really divine inspiration there that this is
(44:21):
God making you creative, which reflects his glory, by the way.
And in so doing, perhaps what you're thinking about inventing
or on the cusp of getting a patent helps your
fellow man flourish as well. So God's in it all,
is he not? I bet you didn't think about this
before today. And if you want to think about it more,
and I want you to get a copy of Doctor
Edwards brand new book to invent his divine creativity and ownership.
I've got it linked to my information page. Doctor Edwards,
(44:43):
thank you for a memorable conversation. Thank you friends. We'll
see you next time on In the Market with Janet Parshall.
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