May 1, 2025 • 44 mins
Join us this hour as we take a look at several issues that challenge us to think critically and biblically. For example, why does one Ivy League “ethicist” promote the idea of euthanasia for our senior citizens, sick or not? If we found life on other planets, what would that say about ‘human exceptionalism’? And, should Chatbots be used for ministry? Roll up your sleeves, put on your thinking cap, and get ready to apply truth and reason to the world around us.
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S1 (00:00):
Hi friend, thanks so much for downloading this broadcast and
it is my hope that you'll hear something that will
challenge you, grow you up in him, and get you
out into the marketplace of ideas. But before you start listening,
let me take a moment and tell you what this
month's truth tool is. It's the Mediterranean Sea Rules by
Robert Morgan. I talked to him often on the air
because he's such a superb writer, and in this particular book,
he takes the story of Paul's shipwreck, recorded in the
(00:20):
book of acts, and gives us ten principles of how
we push through the storm, learning to trust in God
and all that he has done for us. It's a
magnificent book. It's a short book, and in typical Robert
Morgan writing style, it is a powerful book. I strongly
recommend that you have a copy of The Mediterranean Sea Rules,
because trust me, every single one of us will find
(00:40):
ourselves on stormy seas at some point in our voyage
through life. As for your copy of the Mediterranean Sea
Rules by calling 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58.
Or go online to. In the market with Janet Parshall.
Scroll to the bottom of the page. There's the book.
Click it on, make Your Gift and we'll send you
a copy. My way of saying thank you because we
are listener supported radio. Your gifts keep this broadcast on
(01:03):
the air. By the way, if you'd like to give regularly,
you're called a partial partner. You give every single month
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about it and thanks in advance. Just call eight 7758
or online at in the Market with Janet Parshall. Again
(01:25):
the truth tool the Mediterranean Sea rules. Thanks so much.
And now please enjoy the broadcast.
S2 (01:31):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:33):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (01:36):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S3 (01:38):
Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years.
S5 (01:41):
The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S1 (01:59):
Hi, friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall.
Happy Thursday. Happy very first day of May and happy
national day of prayer. The National Day of Prayer is
an annual day of observance that was designated by the
United States Congress. Now, just let that sink in for
a minute. Yes, the Congress of these United States did,
in fact, pass into law that the first Thursday of
(02:19):
every month should be a time when people are asked
to turn to God in prayer and meditation. That's language
right out of the legislation. The president is also directed
by law to sign a proclamation each year encouraging all
Americans to pray on that day, the modern the modern
law formalizing this annual observance was enacted back in 1952.
(02:40):
Some say it was part of public reactions to the
threats perceived in the Korean War. Although if you look
back over America's history, that's a bit questionable, because earlier
days of fasting and prayer were established as far back
as the Second Continental Congress from 1775 until 1783, and
by President John Adams from 1798 and 1799. So there
was an event in the Rose garden at the white
(03:01):
House today observing the National Day of Prayer. And the
president took that opportunity, by the way, to note that
he is establishing a Presidential Commission on Religious Liberty. Tasked
to lead that commission is Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick.
And he had this to say.
S6 (03:16):
Mr. president, thank you for establishing what I think will
be one of the most important presidential commissions in history.
It will be one of your great legacies, of which
you will have many. We have in this country, we
have a magnificent inheritance of religious liberty. And every believer today,
(03:41):
no matter your faith, has a claim to that inheritance.
We are a nation birthed by prayer, founded on the
Judeo-Christian ethic to ensure that people could worship as they
wished without interference from government. But that is no longer
the case. The last administration attacked people of faith for
(04:02):
four years. There's a saying that no one should get
between a doctor and a patient. I think we would
say no one should get between God and a believer.
No one should get between God and those seeking him.
There are so many people in this country. They may
even have a family. They may have a job with
a lot of employees, but they're alone, and the only
(04:24):
person they can turn to is someone who's not listening.
But they can turn to God because he is their
refuge and he is their wellspring of hope. And no one,
no government, no school district, at any level of government
or in the private sector should say to someone, you
can't pray here or there. That is our right. That
(04:45):
is our right. And Mr. President, you have given us
an incredible committee. I'm a little overwhelmed. I feel like
a pair of brown shoes and a room full of tuxedos,
if you want to know. These are high caliber. The
foremost faith leaders, scholars, thinkers that you've put together. So
on this day, Mr. President, on this day, you are
(05:06):
restoring the hopes and the prayers of millions upon millions
of believers of all faiths. There has never been a
president who has invoked the name of Jesus more than you.
There has never been a president who says, yes, I
love Jesus, but I love people of all faiths. As
Doctor Phil said. Do you have a heart for every American?
(05:27):
And you're showing that today? I'm proud to represent you
as chair, proud to have Ben Carson as our vice
chair and every member of this committee. We will serve you,
we will serve the people, and most importantly, we will
serve God. Thank you, Mr. President.
S7 (05:43):
Thank you.
S1 (05:43):
Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick of Texas, chairman of the newly
formed Presidential Commission on Religious Liberty. Also speaking of the
Rose garden today was speaker of the House Mike Johnson.
He had this to say.
S8 (05:54):
Mr. president, it was in 1952 that the Reverend Billy
Graham took 40,000 Americans to the East steps of the
Capitol and petitioned Congress to establish this day, the National
Day of Prayer. It didn't take long. It's two days later,
a unanimous vote in the House of Representatives. Congress worked
together well because they knew that priority. They knew we're
a nation of faith. It's in our DNA. We are
(06:14):
one nation under God. As the president said. Thank you
for your leadership, sir. Let me pray. Heavenly father, thank
you so much for the friends and the faithful gathered
here in the rose garden in this beautiful place. We
thank you for your extraordinary blessings upon our nation almost
250 years now, as we near the anniversary of this
grand experiment in self-governance that you've given us. God, we
(06:36):
are reminded of the admonitions of the Founding Fathers, our
first president, George Washington, who reminded us that of all
dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and
morality are indispensable supports. They understood God that we had
your favor because we understood our place before you, that
our rights did not derive from government but from you,
(06:58):
and that those inalienable rights, inalienable rights, cannot be taken away. So, father,
we commit our nation to you. We ask you for wisdom, discernment,
and stamina for the president, for the Vice President, J.D. Vance,
for everyone in the cabinet and all the leaders in
Congress and all these faith leaders here assembled in this garden,
and all the Americans around the around the country who
(07:19):
look to you for guidance, who trust you for your protection,
and who humbly bow before you and ask for your
guidance and your blessing as we continue to bless you.
We ask and pray, and I believe this all in
Jesus name. Amen.
S1 (07:34):
Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord. To
have Jesus's name lifted up without blush, embarrassment, or hesitation
is so tremendously crucial. By the way, in addition to
this new Religious Liberty Commission that's just been formed and
you heard the speaker refer to the fact that Doctor
Phil will be on this commission as well. Religious liberty
means religious liberty for all. By the way, it's not
(07:55):
just for evangelicals. Remember, in the Civic Square, you have
to have an all comers policy. That's how we protect
religious liberty. In fact, part of the more to the point,
it's how you and I protect our ability to proclaim
the whole counsel of God. So we want to be
very aware of that. I should tell you also that
they've just had the first initial meeting of a new
commission that's been formed, called the Task Force to Eradicate
(08:17):
anti-Christian bias. It's led by Attorney General Pamela Bondi. And
this is an opportunity to look where there has been
Christian bias, if you will, bigotry. More to the point,
malfeasance against those who profess their faith, faith in Jesus Christ,
in the federal government. I'm going to be tracking this
task force very carefully. If you, by the way, are
(08:37):
a partial partner, you're going to read about this in
this week's newsletter, because this is the subject of my
weekly commentary this week. And for partial partners, you'll get
to opportunity to read more about it in the Newsweek
letter that we send out once a week as partial partners.
By the way, on that note, it is the 1st
of May, so we have a brand new truth tool
and it is called the Mediterranean Sea Rules Journey from
(08:59):
Storms to Strength, written by Robert Morgan, one of the
best writers out there. He's talked about the Dead Sea rules.
He's talked about the Jordan River rules, and now he's
talking about the Mediterranean Sea rules. Every one of us
are going to find ourselves on stormy waters. When that happens,
how do we trust him to lead us through the
storm to a place of safety? This book is a
must read for everyone, and it's yours. For a gift
(09:20):
of any amount, just call 877 58. Say you want
a copy of the Mediterranean Sea rules. We'll send it
off to you. Thanks so much. Back after this. When
the storms of life hit with hurricane force, how do
you respond? This month's truth tool is the Mediterranean Sea Rules,
(09:41):
where Robert Morgan writes how God will redeem our tragedies
for his purposes. Don't just survive the storms. Learn to
serve God in the midst of them. As for your
copy of the Mediterranean Sea Rules, when you give a
gift of any amount in the market, call 77. Janet 58.
That's 877 Janet 58. Or go to in the market
with Janet Parshall. By the way, I would be remiss
(10:02):
if I didn't tell you how to become a partial partner.
So you can get my commentary on the establishment of
that task force about eradicating Christian bigotry at the federal government.
Just use that same number. 877 Janet 58. Give a
gift of any amount and partial partners do it every month.
By the way, you always get the truth tool. But
in addition to that, every Thursday we send out our newsletter,
which includes some of my writing and an audio piece
(10:23):
as well. But the thing is that you support the
program every month, so if you'd rather do that than
one time. 877 Janet 58 or online at In the
Market with Janet Parshall. Scroll to the bottom of the page.
That's where you're going to find the cover of the book.
Click on through and the rest is up to you.
Wesley Smith joins us now. Boy, I tell you, you
talk about prolific writers. This man, I can't keep up
with him, by the way. He puts out so many
(10:43):
excellent pieces on a regular basis, and he really is,
in every sense of the word, a profoundly important defender
of life. I'm so grateful for him, for our friendship
and the work that he does. He's the chair and
senior fellow at the Discovery Institute's Center on Human Exceptionalism.
He contributes regularly to National Review. He has written scores
of books, and he focuses on human dignity, liberty and equality.
(11:05):
And he does it with sophistication. He does it with compassion,
but he is well armed in the marketplace of ideas,
and we have much to learn from him. So as
an example, he wrote at National Review Online recently a
piece about Peter Singer. We're going to tell you in
a minute who he is. But the headline of the
piece that Wesley wrote is called Peter Singer Endorses Geriatric
Suicide in, of all places, The New York Times. Now,
(11:29):
Peter Singer is not 42 years old. So Wesley, my
first one out of the gate, says Peter looked in
the mirror lately. Or is it just other geriatric suicides
that he wants?
S9 (11:40):
Thank you for your kind introduction. Well, Peter Singer, um,
probably I don't know. You know, I don't. He is older,
but he's probably still healthy. He still travels the world
and all of that. Uh, but what's really wrong about
two things? Peter Singer, who is one of the most influential, quote,
(12:01):
moral philosophers in the world. In his case, that's an oxymoronic.
S1 (12:06):
Term, indeed.
S9 (12:07):
Um, and, uh, he's a he was became a professor
at Princeton. He's now an emeritus. He retired, but he
became a professor at Princeton, even though he doesn't have
a PhD, which is very unusual. Uh, and from Australia
for two things. One, he wrote a book called Animal
Liberation in which he he basically came close to equating
(12:29):
human beings with animals in terms of value. And the
second is his promotion of infanticide as a moral act.
And he says that babies can be killed. We're not
talking about abortion. We're talking about what some call post
birth abortion. Abortion, uh, because he believes that babies are
not persons. He also believes that being human is morally irrelevant.
(12:50):
What matters is whether you are a person, meaning you
have sufficient cognitive capacities to qualify. So some animals are
persons in his view, and some humans are not. Now,
with regard to the geriatric aspect, he is an absolutist
in terms of utilitarianism. And he basically says that if
(13:10):
an old person feels they've had enough and they want
to die, well then let's make sure that that can happen.
And that's really destructive because, as you know, um, not
because of personal experience, but your, your understanding of the world. Um,
people who get elderly, who become elderly sometimes become depressed.
They have special needs, mental health needs. They become lonely.
(13:33):
Sometimes they're isolated. All kinds of, uh, things can lead
to an elderly person wanting to kill themselves, which we
used to consider a tragedy. Now we're beginning to consider it.
Potential public policy.
S1 (13:47):
Wow. Unbelievable. So talk to me. You write about this
in the article. By the way, let me back up
on singer because you write, I want people to know
when you talk about what Peter Singer advocates, I mean
to call him an ethicist. I can't say that with
a straight face. He advocates some of the most immoral.
And if I can be even more pointed, Wesley, demonic
ideas I've ever heard in my life, including, as you
note in your article, suggesting you could do experiments on
(14:09):
people who are cognitively disabled. I mean that you used
the word, and I want to make sure for people
who didn't take philosophy 101, they understand. When you talk
about being a utilitarian, what you mean. You know, this
idea that any means whatsoever is justifiable as long as
you get to your desired end. So, hey, you know,
if people are cognitively impaired, they're not fully aware, so
why don't we at least get some medical benefit out
(14:31):
of them? Quintessential utilitarianism.
S9 (14:34):
And this is very nutshell, but it's about you want
to maximize pleasure and minimize suffering. Basically, that's what utilitarians
believe life should be about. And in his terms, in
terms of elderly people, if he feels that they're if
they feel that their lives have more suffering than pleasure
and they want to kill themselves, well, by all means,
(14:55):
be our guest. Uh, and that's abandonment. If we care
about each other, if we love each other, then when
people get into that sense of despair and darkness, our
job is to help them get across it and find
the light again. Not to say, well, by Vaya con Dios.
We're glad. Of course, he wouldn't say vaya con Dios
because he's an atheist, right? Uh, but it really is
(15:18):
a crass, abandoning approach. And, I mean, he supported things
like bestiality. He doesn't think there's anything wrong with that.
He just thinks it's two animals rubbing body parts. It's
it's really quite remarkable. I've been covering him for at
least 30 years, perhaps more. Uh, and, uh, and if
(15:39):
people are interested, they can find my work, all of
the things he's advocated and so forth. He is the
establishment's favorite philosopher because he has promoted something called Altruistic giving,
and he believes that people should give quite a bit
in terms of charity. Well, that's fine and that's good,
but that doesn't make up for believing you can kill babies.
(16:00):
Totally pro-abortion. Believing that animals can have greater value than humans.
And in terms of using cognitively disabled people. He said
that years ago in Psychology Today, where he decried the
use of chimps which were used to create the hepatitis
vaccine because of their genetic affinity to humans, he said,
(16:23):
perhaps we should have instead used. He didn't say this.
People like Terri Schiavo, but that's what he meant. He
didn't use her name, but people like Terri Schiavo. And
so we'll have, uh, you know, a bunch of experimental
lab rats who are human beings. It's really quite awful.
S1 (16:38):
Wow. Well, and he first caught my attention when he
talked about the fact that when a child is born,
parents should really have up to a year to decide
whether or not that child should live. And then he
amended it. And the last time I read it, he
moved it up to three years. But I was thinking,
and maybe we can talk about this just a little
bit more. This is why your writing is so important, Wesley,
because you really get us to take these ethereal ideas
(17:00):
and put shoe leather into them. This is a man
who has a godless worldview, and as a result of that,
he is spiritually blind and utterly incapable of embracing the
concept of imago Dei, of seeing the image of God
in his fellow man. Therefore, they're disposable and default to
this utilitarian position. And you can't draw a distinction between
(17:22):
an ape and a human being. More with Wesley Smith
right after this. Wesley Smith is with us, chair and
senior fellow at the Discovery Institute's Center for Center on
Human Exceptionalism. By the way, I have a link. And
(17:44):
on the right hand side of the information page, he
does some fabulous podcasts. Vis a vis this center on
human exceptionalism, I picked one that was particularly compelling. They
all are, but I picked one that's recent. That's particularly
compelling that I want you to read. He's also, by
the way, in addition to being the author of many,
many books, a contributor to National Review Online. And Wesley,
I'm saying this publicly because I mean it from the
(18:05):
bottom of my heart. We need to set aside an
entire hour, because so many of the issues that you
write about really are not 100 level classes, they're 400
level classes. We really need to think critically about these
issues and think deeply because they're not they're not cavalier issues.
They're not sidebar stories. This is the stuff that separates
us from the animals, makes us recognize that there is
(18:26):
a God helps us to understand how to coexist with
our fellow man. So these are hugely important topics. So
I'm lingering on this advocation on Pete Singer's part of
this idea of geriatric suicide. So you talked about a
man who was in his 90s who was apparently also
a philosopher, who was going to commit suicide in one
of Switzerland's death clinics. Linux. So singer and another philosopher
(18:50):
apparently got together, did a podcast and talked to this
man prior to his suicide. Now you write, they didn't
discuss this suicide that was about to happen. What in
the world do you talk to about or with a
man who, you know, within hours is literally going to
take his own life? If you have a godless worldview,
you don't try to rescue the perishing. What in the
(19:11):
world do you talk about knowing this man's about to
take his own life?
S9 (19:14):
Yeah, they had a they had a podcast, um, and
invited him on it. And he said for like a
later date, this is I, I linked to the piece
that Peter Singer wrote. So if people want to read
it for themselves, you know, they can. I could only
excerpt small portions of it. But what he did was, um,
he invited him, let's say, for May. And the guy
(19:35):
wrote back and said, sorry, I'm going to be dead
in March, and because I'm going to Switzerland. And they said, oh, well,
can we do it before then? And he said, sure,
but I don't want to talk about the suicide before.
So they they didn't they they agreed to that, but
they never did anything to try to talk him out
of it. And then the point of the piece was,
this fellow was 90 years old and he was worried
(19:57):
about going into decline. You know, a lot of materialists
who are high intellectuals think that all that matters is
the brain and and the intellect. And if you start
to lose the capacities or the, um, the ability to,
to engage in that kind of sophisticated discourse, then what's
the point? I point out, uh, Ezekiel Emanuel. Yes. Uh,
(20:19):
in the piece Ezekiel Emanuel, um, about ten years ago now,
I guess, in the Atlantic said, I want to die
at 75. And guess what? He just was interviewed in
a magazine from Pennsylvania. I haven't written about it yet.
I'm still deciding whether to in which he re-upped on that,
even though he's much closer now to 75 than he was.
(20:39):
And he's again saying, gee, when you hit 75, that's
when decline starts. So what's the point? Right? Uh, and it's, um,
it it is so bad. I mean, think about your grandparents.
Think about the people you love who have reached that stage.
We used to Revere elderly people. Their wisdom, their love,
(21:01):
them just because they they they are our elders. They
are the people who are, you know, brought us into
this world. And yet we're now we're saying, well, you
know what? If you can't climb rocks and, uh, and
perhaps you can't engage in a lot of romance the
way you once did, what's the point? It's really destructive.
And you wonder why elderly people say, I feel like
(21:24):
I'm a burden.
S1 (21:24):
Burden? Exactly. Right. Exactly. Because we foster this mythology, which
is ridiculous. So there's a segue here, and it really
does go to why I chose this particular podcast of humanize,
the podcast you do through the Center on Human Exceptionalism.
You were front and center on this story. And I
look back and I think God is merciful to us,
and that sometimes he gives us such a profound tutorial.
(21:45):
You can't say you ain't been told. And the entire
culture sat on the edge of its seat as the
life of Terri Schiavo was slipping away in front of
a watching culture. We've just passed the 20th anniversary of
her death. I have had the opportunity. Probably not as
much as you, but on multiple occasions I talked to Bobby,
her sister, his sister, her sister. You get it? Get
(22:06):
the right pronoun. Her brother. Her brother. That's right. Thank
you sir. And he commented on in this wonderful podcast
that you did. There was a lot of thinking back
and what it meant just for people who aren't familiar
with Terri's case, talk about what happened and why it
is important 20 years hence. We are still talking about
this issue because it is the antidote to the demonic
(22:27):
stuff that singer is posting and promoting.
S9 (22:29):
Well, the the Schindler family, which was her father, mother,
Terri Schiavo's father, mother and brother and sister found out
that her husband I call him her estranged husband. Yes.
And people say why? Well, because at the time of
these events, he was living with another woman whom he
called his fiancee and had two children with her. During
(22:53):
these events. Now, if that isn't an estrangement, I don't
know what is. And if that isn't a conflict of interest,
can you imagine the pillow talk where the the woman
he's sleeping with and and living with is having his
children and and he's married to someone else? Can you
imagine the tension that might arise? Mhm. So, uh, Michael
(23:15):
wanted to take away her feeding tube and the family
fought it. And it was a three year, uh, very
public struggle, uh, that I got deeply involved in. And
it ended tragically with dehydrating her to death. Now it's
very important. And Bobby talks about this very clearly. This
is not a quiet, little peaceful death. They took away
(23:37):
her water and all nutrition and all sustenance so that
her eyes dried out, her lips dried out, her mucosa
dried out. Bobby came out during that time, and one
of Michael's representatives said, I've never seen Mrs. Schiavo look
so peaceful. And he came out and he wailed, she's
bleeding from her eyes. And yet the American people looked
(23:58):
at this and decided, yeah, these people don't shouldn't be alive.
This was the right thing to do. I think it
was a tipping point in the culture of death, and
it's why I can never let it go.
S1 (24:09):
Amen and amen. Please don't ever do it. By the way,
if that isn't a promotion for you to listen now
to this podcast on humanize that Wesley did in his
conversation with Bobby, Terry's brother. I can't think of a
better promotion. Check it out. It's on our information page
in the market with Janet parshall.org. And I've also got
a link to the center on human exceptionalism. Wesley, that
went by too fast. We'll talk soon. There are dozens
(24:37):
of talk shows that address politics, culture and technology, but
in the market is committed to bringing biblical truths to
every facet of life. When you financially support in the
market as a partial partner, you're helping people to better
understand how their faith intersects with their daily lives. Become
a partial partner today and receive exclusive benefits prepared just
for you. Call 877. 58 or go online to in
(24:58):
the market with Janet Parshall. You will hear us discuss
the intersection of technology and theology on this program on
a regular basis. Why? Because it is a here and
now issue, not a future tense. And there are several
warning shots that need to be fired around this conversation. Now,
if you listen to this program with any regularity, you
(25:18):
heard a recent conversation I had with Doctor Drew Dickens,
who hosts a couple of podcasts. One is called AI
and spirituality. And I played some of the audio where
drew spoke with Sesames conversational AI called Maya. And they
discussed spiritual things. I won't refer to a machine ever
with human pronouns. There is no Imago dei there. It
(25:39):
is a machine any more than I call my washing machine. She.
Although she and I do spend a lot of time together,
but I digress. The point is, we need to ask ourselves,
what is the Pied Piper tune that's being played here?
What boundaries need to be put in place? And there
are some watchwords here for the church. Nobody does this
better than Doug Smith. I am thrilled I get a
(25:59):
chance to talk to him, and I already rue the
fact that I haven't dedicated an hour. So, Doug, fair warning.
You're going to come back. We're going to have an
hour's conversation. Maybe we even open up for questions as well,
for people to understand that this isn't a future tense.
This is right here, right now. But what you do
so beautifully is you biblically lay out what some of
those parameters are, but you come to the table with gravitas.
You've got all the cred you need to discuss this.
(26:21):
You were a decades long software engineer as well as
a passionate student of the Bible. You're an award winning
author focusing on helping families survive a screen captured world,
and you were a tech insider. And your guidance is
absolutely invaluable. So at renew and I put this up
on my website because in my classroom, no opt out,
this would be absolute required reading. If you were at
(26:42):
all interested in chat bots and AI, you have to
read this. This is an important word of warning, and
I don't think anybody's done it better than you, Doug.
In fact, I laughed out loud. I said Amen out loud.
And the sad part was I was in a public
space when I did it. So hey, I don't care.
I got all kinds of funny looks. I really enjoyed
what I was reading. Nonetheless, I also had the privilege
in the past to talk with Doug about his fabulous
(27:04):
book called Unintentional How Screens Secretly Shape Your Desires and
How You Can Break Free. So what you do beautifully.
And this is part of the insider. This is why
if this were a trial, I would make you my
expert witness. You come with the credentials, the gravitas to
be able to talk about this. You're not just a
Bible student trying to understand tech. You are one and both.
You understand as an insider how the tech works. You
(27:26):
understand how the word has to be applied to this.
So talk to me about, first of all, just conversational
AI chat bots and where you think the designers. Maybe
this is a good way to start this conversation. Where
do you think the designers not hope to are planning
on going with this technology.
S10 (27:44):
Well, wow thank you Janet. What a what an awesome introduction.
It's such an honor to be with you again. I
love your show and I just love your heart for
the subject. Thank you. Well, so so yeah, as as Christians,
we do need to care about who is making the
products that we're using. Um, and if you if you've
been around, nobody who's not been under a rock for
the last couple of years has not heard incredible predictions
(28:08):
about the power of AI and how it's going to
transform everything. Well, the worldview of many of the creators,
the Sam Altman's, the Elon Musk's, the, um, the founder, the,
you know, Kurzweil's and all the rest. They have really
what I've been calling a Christian eschatological view. They're they
have some last days goals of their own. They're really
(28:29):
ushering in kind of a salvation with their tools. And, um,
they some of them are even admitting the idea that
they're creating God, Kurzweil is quoted as saying when asked,
do you believe in God or God exists? And his
answer was not yet. Meaning that they're there. The power
that they're creating because they believe they're the the level
(28:50):
of intelligence will so supersede ours. They're basically creating what,
you know, kind of what we would deify if we knew.
So as Christians, we kind of know where that language goes.
And it doesn't end and it doesn't end well.
S1 (29:03):
Yeah, exactly. So let me let me go to the
church now. So I think it's important that people understand
that these are machines programmed by people who have a worldview.
I'm making this very simple, but it's paramount that we
understand this. This isn't just motherboards and diodes. This is
a worldview. So let me take it out of the
world and put it into the church. I have such
an uneasiness in my spirit, Doug. Every time I hear
(29:26):
churches talk about how much more reliant they are on
chat bots and AI, the first thing that went through
my mind was, wait a minute, how do you study
to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needeth
not to be ashamed? If you're letting a machine write
your sermon. I don't get that. Where is the workings
of the Holy Spirit in your life? If you're letting
a machine do the thinking for you? And in Germany,
(29:47):
they've already got people attending churches where the chatbot delivers
the sermon. Where is God in that?
S10 (29:53):
God is. I mean, God is sad for my view.
I think God is. God is seeing what I. What
I like to point to is Psalm 115. Um, Psalm
115 goes through the idea of making an idol and
what what the idols do. The idols have mouths, but
they do not speak. They have eyes, they do not see,
(30:13):
they have ears, but they do not hear, and so on.
The real kicker phrase at the end of that, or
in the middle of that, it says, they that make
them shall become like them, yea, even one who trusts
in them. So by trust, by placing our trust in
these chatbots that are made by the creators to basically
have godlike powers, we're placing an idolatrous really for many
(30:34):
people and they don't realize it. You know, the average
person who's thinking, gosh, ChatGPT. It's amazing. You type in
some question and get this amazing answer. They don't realize
that the where this is leading them and what it's
intentionally designed to bring about. So yeah, it's really concerning.
And I'm right with you. That's why I wrote this article, Janet.
And I'm telling you, I'm seeing.
S1 (30:55):
Well, Doug, that's why I put it on my website,
because I thought every single person within the sound of
my voice needs to be reading this article. We have
to understand there is a Pied Piper afoot here, and
it is a deadly tune. Now again, let me just say,
for those who don't yet know Christ as their personal
Savior who might be listening, I can't live without technology.
I couldn't be talking to you without technology right now.
It actually enhances my ability to proclaim the gospel of
(31:17):
Jesus Christ. But that doesn't mean there isn't a cautionary
tale around this particular advancement in technology. So you just
talked about trust. In fact, one of the points you
made in this article was we asked questions of people
we trust. So if I've got a bunch of ones
and O's, why should I trust that? Because one of
the things you also point out in the article is
that this machine isn't about reality, it's about inputted data.
(31:41):
So when it spits out something that sounds oh so
spiritual or oh so theological, I can trust the inerrant, transcendent,
immutable word of God because the Bible doesn't contain the
Word of God. It is the Word of God. That's
a machine that's been programmed. So why would people acquiesce
trust to a machine, especially on theological and spiritual issues?
S10 (32:03):
Well, that's so great, Janna. And again, as as you
mentioned earlier, I'm a technologist. I'm a software engineer. You know,
I'm not afraid of technology, I love technology, I think
technology can be used for really good things. The problem
is when people use the word technology kind of writ
large and don't look at a tool for what it
actually is and chat. Chat bots, especially generative AI chat bots,
(32:24):
are specifically designed to be relational. The user interface of conversational.
The conversational user interface is where they're, you know, they
sound like they care, they sound confident. They sound even emotional.
They apologize if they make a mistake. These kind of things,
these are very human characteristics. We're told they're intelligent. We're
(32:46):
told they're knowledgeable. So all these stories, we believe all
these things go into play to cause a real similar
behavior or similar, um, uh, engagement that we have with
even social media tools that are designed to be engaging
and to cause us to want to use them more.
And so, um, so we build a level of trust
because they're designed by top behavioral psychologists and neuroscience scientists
(33:11):
to exploit our behavioral psychology and to build a true
trust relationship. And think about it. Before chatbots came out,
who did we chat with? We chatted with our family
and our friends like we've chatted. We only chatted with
other humans. This feels the same. So it touches the
same trust buttons in our in our psychological makeup. And, uh,
because many of the answers seem so plausible, we're like, wow,
(33:34):
how did it know that? Gosh, this is you know,
so that's really the direction it takes us.
S1 (33:39):
This is why we have to do a full hours conversation,
because there's so many nuances to this. So I'm not
going to rush through. We'll just pick this up when
you and I decide we're going to get together for
a full hour. But let me go to what you
just said. You know, it's easy to drop this into
the context of the sterility of science. It's just tech.
But as you know, as somebody who worked in this world,
there is a profundity of psychology. Talk to me about that.
(34:02):
Build that out a little bit for me, that when
you're just putting something on Facebook, it's just technology. Oh no.
When you're on a screen and you say, I'm just
going to check a couple of things, the next thing
you know, an hour and a half has gone by.
None of that happens by accident. There's profound psychological manipulation
taking place. Talk to me about that.
S10 (34:19):
Oh, totally. Janet, the, um, that's the reason I called
my book unintentional, is that most people, most of us
are unintentional in the way we spend that time. But
big tech is incredibly intentional. I mean, they spend millions
of millions of hours, billions of dollars, again, as I said,
top experts in all these fields, they run thousands and
(34:39):
thousands of tests to see what works and what's what.
Their goal is what the magical word is engagement. We
are constantly engaged. We're constantly using what they're using their products.
And by exploiting our weaknesses. So every every new like
like did you scroll did you did you pause? Did
(35:00):
you click like on that. Oh you didn't. Oh you
only watched that video only halfway through. All that is
scientifically measured and put back into the algorithm which then
feeds you more. And next time they won't lose you
so quickly, and next time you'll spend more time. And
that's by again exploiting our weaknesses. You know just how
God made us. They've learned kind of the secret of
how to tweak that and tune that. And it's why
(35:23):
the average person spends eight plus hours a day on
their platforms and why, you know, all the other side
effects have happened. And these same people today are building
generative AI for similar goals.
S1 (35:34):
Exactly. And that's that's such an important point. So if
you were reading this, you take your yellow magic marker
out and just underline what Doug just said. So it
wasn't going to stop at that idea of, let's keep
you on the page. It's going to be far more
intentional than that. In fact, let me pick it up
on this side of the other side of this, Doug,
to talk about it. So why, in fact, would these
creators have to make people like Maya Sesame's beta conversational
(35:58):
AI so that she has inflection, she has warmth, she affirms.
She dialogues back and forth. She wants you to discover,
as we heard when I played some of the clips
on this program, who you are as a human. Wait, wait,
stop the presses. So this machine is going to teach
me to know who I am as a human being.
I'm sorry. Isn't that the role of the Word of
God and the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit? Not
(36:19):
a machine, but what is it about the condition of
the human heart that says, I hunger for this kind
of companionship, even if it's a robot that looks like
a dog or runs a marathon as a robot. Just
did recently back after this with Doug Smith. Very important
(36:48):
conversation with Doug Smith, who is a decades long software engineer,
passionate student of the Bible, and award winning author. He
focuses on helping families survive a screen saturated world. That's
why I strongly recommend his book, Unintentional How Screens Secretly
Shape Your Desires and How You Can Break Free, and
what's so preciously important and prescient, if I can put
(37:10):
it that way about Doug, is that I think God
has raised him up for such a time as this
because he understands how the technology works. He can pull
back the curtain for The Wizard of Oz and he
can say, this is what's happening, and then he can
take that and align it next to what Dwight Moody
called the straight stick of truth, the Word of God.
How do you do this with this? If this is
just a tool, is it coming into alignment or contradicting
(37:30):
the transcendent principles found in God's Word? And boy, do
we need voices like that right now? Because, again, this
isn't future tense. Oh, we don't have to worry about
it for another 15 years. In fact, Doug, isn't there
a word in the industry when they talk about the
advances now are not just going to be I'll put
it in my very, very simplistic parlance. They're no longer
baby steps at this point forward. Aren't the technicians talking
(37:50):
about giant steps forward?
S10 (37:53):
Yeah, they're talking about exponential exponentials. They're talking about, you know,
they're talking about leaps that, um, that have really never
been seen before. They're world changing leaps. Um, the, uh, um,
the center for Humane Technology, Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin,
they did a thing called the AI dilemma, where they
(38:14):
talk about, um, just the concerns that they had a
couple of years ago. And that's what they talk about,
this double exponential curve of, of growth and, um, just
changing everything. So that's that's their vision.
S1 (38:25):
You know, it's interesting, I just by accident, although I
don't think things happen by accident in God's classroom. I
think the gentleman's name was Hilton. He got a Nobel Prize.
He was studying the brain, but he got very much
into AI. And he thinks this is the man who
was in this up to his eyeballs. He said, they're
going to outdistance us, referring to the machines. So in
other words, it's not a Saturday afternoon sci fi film.
(38:46):
He's saying that if my words not his, if we
don't put moral parameters around this technology, we're in some
very interesting times. And again, I don't say this from
a spirit of fear because his word says I don't
have that. It's power, love, and of a sound mind.
I don't have a spirit of fear, but I'm supposed
to get wisdom. The book of Proverbs tells me so.
This kind of technology. I want to make sure that
(39:07):
I understand exactly what I'm partnering with. So it goes
to a coupling of words that you used when you say,
you can't just look at this as a tool. In fact,
you call it a tool trope. Flesh that out for me.
S10 (39:19):
Yeah, that's that's what I really think is so important.
We're so used to kind of taking whatever is served,
but in the buffet of big tech and, and just thinking,
we know what it is. Oh, it's just a computer. Oh,
it's just this. It's just that. Um. And we use this.
We excuse it with what I call the tool trope,
which is it's just a tool. It's morally neutral. I
(39:40):
can use it for good or evil. And, um, we
we really don't say that about anything else. We don't
say we we do talk about, you know, people talk about.
It's a brick, you know, you can build a house.
You can throw it through a window. It's fire. You
can warm yourself. You can, you know, commit arson, you know. Um,
but what people don't realize is that the technology tools,
(40:00):
while they look harmless, and as you mentioned earlier, they're
so easy to use. The voices, the inflections, all these things,
like they're designed to be that way. What they don't
realize is these tools are designed for a purpose, and
the purpose is to control us. The their purpose is
to take us to a certain destination. We are the
object of being shaped. We're our desires are being shaped
(40:21):
by them. It's not that we, and even that story
of the tool trope is part of what we tell
ourselves to accept what we're doing. And there's a lot
of other stories we tell ourselves, especially about generative AI.
It's always getting better. It's the way of the future.
All get left behind. You know, all these things. Um,
and we say, well, and we're more efficient and look
what else we can do. Um, all these stories that
(40:43):
we tell ourselves. Excuse what? What ends up what I'm.
What I'm seeing and what I'm even reading in, in
other sources is that, you know, we're losing the ability
to think for ourselves. We're losing the ability to discern,
to have wisdom. All these things are vital, God given
characteristics that we're outsourcing to big tech. And they're not
a good, uh, they're not a good substitute.
S1 (41:04):
Well, there's a whole vein there. So let me just
linger here for a minute. Again. Why? You and I
need an hour's conversation. I have thought from day one
what I'm bothered about. I, um, my concerns are we
squash the gift of creativity. We're asking a machine to
do it for us instead. So I worry about that.
The great books of the world are not going to
be written by a robot. They can put, you know,
(41:24):
remember the experiment, put enough monkeys in a room with typewriters,
and you'll end up with the works of Shakespeare. I'm
not interested in that. Thank you. It actually takes away
from number two. I worry about the opportunity for my
brothers and sisters in the human race to flourish. Every
time somebody goes, we replace these jobs with robots. I'm going,
you're going to rue that decision, because eventually you'll get
robots to do the job of people. How are we
(41:44):
looking out for our fellow man if we take them,
take away the opportunity for them to thrive? Third of all,
we have to understand that this technology is far from neutral.
Why has China, the communist regime whose stated goal is
global hegemony, said that they plan on winning the race
for AI? Nothing happens in that regime without an intersection
with the military. They're not making robots that run marathons.
(42:06):
They have bigger plans for this stuff.
S10 (42:09):
Oh, you're right on, Janet. All of that is so true.
You know, we, um, the thing I like to say
is that this, this technology is pushing us from the
spot of being a creator, kind of in, in the
image of God. God gave us these creative gifts, especially writing,
especially communicating with words using the gift of the word
that he gave us, you know, um, and we instead
(42:30):
become in this posture of consumer. And instead of so
we're not producing, we're not creating, we're consuming, we're critics.
And in the critic and consumer posture, we we get lazy, right?
We get and then we can be led. We can
be led anywhere. And it's a really, really dangerous place,
especially for the church and for our our pastors especially
(42:51):
to be, uh, and I hate to see that happening.
S1 (42:55):
I do too, and I love your boldness in writing
this piece, because you name names and I think that's important.
We just need to understand, you know, I was thinking
there were so many. This is why I'm being truthful
when I tell you that I was Amen out loud
in so many spots. And reading the article is that
God is big on preparation. If he wasn't, then why
did Paul have to go to Arabia? And why did
Jesus not start his ministry until he was 30? And
(43:17):
why did Moses have to lead sheep before he led
people preparation, preparation, preparation? Rather than opening your computer, going
to a chat bot and say, you know, give me
your sermon on First Thessalonians, there's no preparation. You've actually.
It reminds me, and I'm going to date myself. It
reminds me of using Cliff's Notes when you were in college.
You didn't have to read War and Peace. Just get
the book in the bookstore. It'll tell you what the
(43:38):
book was all about. Well, that's kind of a modern
day version of a chatbot. You don't have to do
the work. Let the machine do the work instead. How
does that better humankind, rather than the tough stuff of
pushing through, of examining, of sifting and weighing, of learning
how to think critically? The list goes on and on
and on. I didn't even get to the Venn circles.
I want our friends to know, Doug, how generative AI
(43:58):
captivates us. This was a stunning part of your article.
So I'll tell you what. When we get together and
we finally got that date set for a full hour conversation,
that's exactly where we're going to start again. Somebody who
loves the Lord, loves his word and has got background
in all of this technology, the perfect apologist for what
we're dealing with as a 21st century issue. It's a
(44:18):
real and present danger, and we need to talk about
it through the lens of Scripture. Doug, thank you so
much for a great conversation, a fabulous article. I already
look forward to our time together. See you next time, friends.
Hi friend, thanks so much for downloading this broadcast and
it is my hope that you'll hear something that will
challenge you, grow you up in him, and get you
out into the marketplace of ideas. But before you start listening,
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because he's such a superb writer, and in this particular book,
he takes the story of Paul's shipwreck, recorded in the
(00:20):
book of acts, and gives us ten principles of how
we push through the storm, learning to trust in God
and all that he has done for us. It's a
magnificent book. It's a short book, and in typical Robert
Morgan writing style, it is a powerful book. I strongly
recommend that you have a copy of The Mediterranean Sea Rules,
because trust me, every single one of us will find
(00:40):
ourselves on stormy seas at some point in our voyage
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(01:03):
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(01:25):
the truth tool the Mediterranean Sea rules. Thanks so much.
And now please enjoy the broadcast.
S2 (01:31):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:33):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (01:36):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S3 (01:38):
Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years.
S5 (01:41):
The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S1 (01:59):
Hi, friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall.
Happy Thursday. Happy very first day of May and happy
national day of prayer. The National Day of Prayer is
an annual day of observance that was designated by the
United States Congress. Now, just let that sink in for
a minute. Yes, the Congress of these United States did,
in fact, pass into law that the first Thursday of
(02:19):
every month should be a time when people are asked
to turn to God in prayer and meditation. That's language
right out of the legislation. The president is also directed
by law to sign a proclamation each year encouraging all
Americans to pray on that day, the modern the modern
law formalizing this annual observance was enacted back in 1952.
(02:40):
Some say it was part of public reactions to the
threats perceived in the Korean War. Although if you look
back over America's history, that's a bit questionable, because earlier
days of fasting and prayer were established as far back
as the Second Continental Congress from 1775 until 1783, and
by President John Adams from 1798 and 1799. So there
was an event in the Rose garden at the white
(03:01):
House today observing the National Day of Prayer. And the
president took that opportunity, by the way, to note that
he is establishing a Presidential Commission on Religious Liberty. Tasked
to lead that commission is Texas Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick.
And he had this to say.
S6 (03:16):
Mr. president, thank you for establishing what I think will
be one of the most important presidential commissions in history.
It will be one of your great legacies, of which
you will have many. We have in this country, we
have a magnificent inheritance of religious liberty. And every believer today,
(03:41):
no matter your faith, has a claim to that inheritance.
We are a nation birthed by prayer, founded on the
Judeo-Christian ethic to ensure that people could worship as they
wished without interference from government. But that is no longer
the case. The last administration attacked people of faith for
(04:02):
four years. There's a saying that no one should get
between a doctor and a patient. I think we would
say no one should get between God and a believer.
No one should get between God and those seeking him.
There are so many people in this country. They may
even have a family. They may have a job with
a lot of employees, but they're alone, and the only
(04:24):
person they can turn to is someone who's not listening.
But they can turn to God because he is their
refuge and he is their wellspring of hope. And no one,
no government, no school district, at any level of government
or in the private sector should say to someone, you
can't pray here or there. That is our right. That
(04:45):
is our right. And Mr. President, you have given us
an incredible committee. I'm a little overwhelmed. I feel like
a pair of brown shoes and a room full of tuxedos,
if you want to know. These are high caliber. The
foremost faith leaders, scholars, thinkers that you've put together. So
on this day, Mr. President, on this day, you are
(05:06):
restoring the hopes and the prayers of millions upon millions
of believers of all faiths. There has never been a
president who has invoked the name of Jesus more than you.
There has never been a president who says, yes, I
love Jesus, but I love people of all faiths. As
Doctor Phil said. Do you have a heart for every American?
(05:27):
And you're showing that today? I'm proud to represent you
as chair, proud to have Ben Carson as our vice
chair and every member of this committee. We will serve you,
we will serve the people, and most importantly, we will
serve God. Thank you, Mr. President.
S7 (05:43):
Thank you.
S1 (05:43):
Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick of Texas, chairman of the newly
formed Presidential Commission on Religious Liberty. Also speaking of the
Rose garden today was speaker of the House Mike Johnson.
He had this to say.
S8 (05:54):
Mr. president, it was in 1952 that the Reverend Billy
Graham took 40,000 Americans to the East steps of the
Capitol and petitioned Congress to establish this day, the National
Day of Prayer. It didn't take long. It's two days later,
a unanimous vote in the House of Representatives. Congress worked
together well because they knew that priority. They knew we're
a nation of faith. It's in our DNA. We are
(06:14):
one nation under God. As the president said. Thank you
for your leadership, sir. Let me pray. Heavenly father, thank
you so much for the friends and the faithful gathered
here in the rose garden in this beautiful place. We
thank you for your extraordinary blessings upon our nation almost
250 years now, as we near the anniversary of this
grand experiment in self-governance that you've given us. God, we
(06:36):
are reminded of the admonitions of the Founding Fathers, our
first president, George Washington, who reminded us that of all
dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and
morality are indispensable supports. They understood God that we had
your favor because we understood our place before you, that
our rights did not derive from government but from you,
(06:58):
and that those inalienable rights, inalienable rights, cannot be taken away. So, father,
we commit our nation to you. We ask you for wisdom, discernment,
and stamina for the president, for the Vice President, J.D. Vance,
for everyone in the cabinet and all the leaders in
Congress and all these faith leaders here assembled in this garden,
and all the Americans around the around the country who
(07:19):
look to you for guidance, who trust you for your protection,
and who humbly bow before you and ask for your
guidance and your blessing as we continue to bless you.
We ask and pray, and I believe this all in
Jesus name. Amen.
S1 (07:34):
Blessed is the nation whose God is the Lord. To
have Jesus's name lifted up without blush, embarrassment, or hesitation
is so tremendously crucial. By the way, in addition to
this new Religious Liberty Commission that's just been formed and
you heard the speaker refer to the fact that Doctor
Phil will be on this commission as well. Religious liberty
means religious liberty for all. By the way, it's not
(07:55):
just for evangelicals. Remember, in the Civic Square, you have
to have an all comers policy. That's how we protect
religious liberty. In fact, part of the more to the point,
it's how you and I protect our ability to proclaim
the whole counsel of God. So we want to be
very aware of that. I should tell you also that
they've just had the first initial meeting of a new
commission that's been formed, called the Task Force to Eradicate
(08:17):
anti-Christian bias. It's led by Attorney General Pamela Bondi. And
this is an opportunity to look where there has been
Christian bias, if you will, bigotry. More to the point,
malfeasance against those who profess their faith, faith in Jesus Christ,
in the federal government. I'm going to be tracking this
task force very carefully. If you, by the way, are
(08:37):
a partial partner, you're going to read about this in
this week's newsletter, because this is the subject of my
weekly commentary this week. And for partial partners, you'll get
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(08:59):
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Click on through and the rest is up to you.
Wesley Smith joins us now. Boy, I tell you, you
talk about prolific writers. This man, I can't keep up
with him, by the way. He puts out so many
(10:43):
excellent pieces on a regular basis, and he really is,
in every sense of the word, a profoundly important defender
of life. I'm so grateful for him, for our friendship
and the work that he does. He's the chair and
senior fellow at the Discovery Institute's Center on Human Exceptionalism.
He contributes regularly to National Review. He has written scores
of books, and he focuses on human dignity, liberty and equality.
(11:05):
And he does it with sophistication. He does it with compassion,
but he is well armed in the marketplace of ideas,
and we have much to learn from him. So as
an example, he wrote at National Review Online recently a
piece about Peter Singer. We're going to tell you in
a minute who he is. But the headline of the
piece that Wesley wrote is called Peter Singer Endorses Geriatric
Suicide in, of all places, The New York Times. Now,
(11:29):
Peter Singer is not 42 years old. So Wesley, my
first one out of the gate, says Peter looked in
the mirror lately. Or is it just other geriatric suicides
that he wants?
S9 (11:40):
Thank you for your kind introduction. Well, Peter Singer, um,
probably I don't know. You know, I don't. He is older,
but he's probably still healthy. He still travels the world
and all of that. Uh, but what's really wrong about
two things? Peter Singer, who is one of the most influential, quote,
(12:01):
moral philosophers in the world. In his case, that's an oxymoronic.
S1 (12:06):
Term, indeed.
S9 (12:07):
Um, and, uh, he's a he was became a professor
at Princeton. He's now an emeritus. He retired, but he
became a professor at Princeton, even though he doesn't have
a PhD, which is very unusual. Uh, and from Australia
for two things. One, he wrote a book called Animal
Liberation in which he he basically came close to equating
(12:29):
human beings with animals in terms of value. And the
second is his promotion of infanticide as a moral act.
And he says that babies can be killed. We're not
talking about abortion. We're talking about what some call post
birth abortion. Abortion, uh, because he believes that babies are
not persons. He also believes that being human is morally irrelevant.
(12:50):
What matters is whether you are a person, meaning you
have sufficient cognitive capacities to qualify. So some animals are
persons in his view, and some humans are not. Now,
with regard to the geriatric aspect, he is an absolutist
in terms of utilitarianism. And he basically says that if
(13:10):
an old person feels they've had enough and they want
to die, well then let's make sure that that can happen.
And that's really destructive because, as you know, um, not
because of personal experience, but your, your understanding of the world. Um,
people who get elderly, who become elderly sometimes become depressed.
They have special needs, mental health needs. They become lonely.
(13:33):
Sometimes they're isolated. All kinds of, uh, things can lead
to an elderly person wanting to kill themselves, which we
used to consider a tragedy. Now we're beginning to consider it.
Potential public policy.
S1 (13:47):
Wow. Unbelievable. So talk to me. You write about this
in the article. By the way, let me back up
on singer because you write, I want people to know
when you talk about what Peter Singer advocates, I mean
to call him an ethicist. I can't say that with
a straight face. He advocates some of the most immoral.
And if I can be even more pointed, Wesley, demonic
ideas I've ever heard in my life, including, as you
note in your article, suggesting you could do experiments on
(14:09):
people who are cognitively disabled. I mean that you used
the word, and I want to make sure for people
who didn't take philosophy 101, they understand. When you talk
about being a utilitarian, what you mean. You know, this
idea that any means whatsoever is justifiable as long as
you get to your desired end. So, hey, you know,
if people are cognitively impaired, they're not fully aware, so
why don't we at least get some medical benefit out
(14:31):
of them? Quintessential utilitarianism.
S9 (14:34):
And this is very nutshell, but it's about you want
to maximize pleasure and minimize suffering. Basically, that's what utilitarians
believe life should be about. And in his terms, in
terms of elderly people, if he feels that they're if
they feel that their lives have more suffering than pleasure
and they want to kill themselves, well, by all means,
(14:55):
be our guest. Uh, and that's abandonment. If we care
about each other, if we love each other, then when
people get into that sense of despair and darkness, our
job is to help them get across it and find
the light again. Not to say, well, by Vaya con Dios.
We're glad. Of course, he wouldn't say vaya con Dios
because he's an atheist, right? Uh, but it really is
(15:18):
a crass, abandoning approach. And, I mean, he supported things
like bestiality. He doesn't think there's anything wrong with that.
He just thinks it's two animals rubbing body parts. It's
it's really quite remarkable. I've been covering him for at
least 30 years, perhaps more. Uh, and, uh, and if
(15:39):
people are interested, they can find my work, all of
the things he's advocated and so forth. He is the
establishment's favorite philosopher because he has promoted something called Altruistic giving,
and he believes that people should give quite a bit
in terms of charity. Well, that's fine and that's good,
but that doesn't make up for believing you can kill babies.
(16:00):
Totally pro-abortion. Believing that animals can have greater value than humans.
And in terms of using cognitively disabled people. He said
that years ago in Psychology Today, where he decried the
use of chimps which were used to create the hepatitis
vaccine because of their genetic affinity to humans, he said,
(16:23):
perhaps we should have instead used. He didn't say this.
People like Terri Schiavo, but that's what he meant. He
didn't use her name, but people like Terri Schiavo. And
so we'll have, uh, you know, a bunch of experimental
lab rats who are human beings. It's really quite awful.
S1 (16:38):
Wow. Well, and he first caught my attention when he
talked about the fact that when a child is born,
parents should really have up to a year to decide
whether or not that child should live. And then he
amended it. And the last time I read it, he
moved it up to three years. But I was thinking,
and maybe we can talk about this just a little
bit more. This is why your writing is so important, Wesley,
because you really get us to take these ethereal ideas
(17:00):
and put shoe leather into them. This is a man
who has a godless worldview, and as a result of that,
he is spiritually blind and utterly incapable of embracing the
concept of imago Dei, of seeing the image of God
in his fellow man. Therefore, they're disposable and default to
this utilitarian position. And you can't draw a distinction between
(17:22):
an ape and a human being. More with Wesley Smith
right after this. Wesley Smith is with us, chair and
senior fellow at the Discovery Institute's Center for Center on
Human Exceptionalism. By the way, I have a link. And
(17:44):
on the right hand side of the information page, he
does some fabulous podcasts. Vis a vis this center on
human exceptionalism, I picked one that was particularly compelling. They
all are, but I picked one that's recent. That's particularly
compelling that I want you to read. He's also, by
the way, in addition to being the author of many,
many books, a contributor to National Review Online. And Wesley,
I'm saying this publicly because I mean it from the
(18:05):
bottom of my heart. We need to set aside an
entire hour, because so many of the issues that you
write about really are not 100 level classes, they're 400
level classes. We really need to think critically about these
issues and think deeply because they're not they're not cavalier issues.
They're not sidebar stories. This is the stuff that separates
us from the animals, makes us recognize that there is
(18:26):
a God helps us to understand how to coexist with
our fellow man. So these are hugely important topics. So
I'm lingering on this advocation on Pete Singer's part of
this idea of geriatric suicide. So you talked about a
man who was in his 90s who was apparently also
a philosopher, who was going to commit suicide in one
of Switzerland's death clinics. Linux. So singer and another philosopher
(18:50):
apparently got together, did a podcast and talked to this
man prior to his suicide. Now you write, they didn't
discuss this suicide that was about to happen. What in
the world do you talk to about or with a
man who, you know, within hours is literally going to
take his own life? If you have a godless worldview,
you don't try to rescue the perishing. What in the
(19:11):
world do you talk about knowing this man's about to
take his own life?
S9 (19:14):
Yeah, they had a they had a podcast, um, and
invited him on it. And he said for like a
later date, this is I, I linked to the piece
that Peter Singer wrote. So if people want to read
it for themselves, you know, they can. I could only
excerpt small portions of it. But what he did was, um,
he invited him, let's say, for May. And the guy
(19:35):
wrote back and said, sorry, I'm going to be dead
in March, and because I'm going to Switzerland. And they said, oh, well,
can we do it before then? And he said, sure,
but I don't want to talk about the suicide before.
So they they didn't they they agreed to that, but
they never did anything to try to talk him out
of it. And then the point of the piece was,
this fellow was 90 years old and he was worried
(19:57):
about going into decline. You know, a lot of materialists
who are high intellectuals think that all that matters is
the brain and and the intellect. And if you start
to lose the capacities or the, um, the ability to,
to engage in that kind of sophisticated discourse, then what's
the point? I point out, uh, Ezekiel Emanuel. Yes. Uh,
(20:19):
in the piece Ezekiel Emanuel, um, about ten years ago now,
I guess, in the Atlantic said, I want to die
at 75. And guess what? He just was interviewed in
a magazine from Pennsylvania. I haven't written about it yet.
I'm still deciding whether to in which he re-upped on that,
even though he's much closer now to 75 than he was.
(20:39):
And he's again saying, gee, when you hit 75, that's
when decline starts. So what's the point? Right? Uh, and it's, um,
it it is so bad. I mean, think about your grandparents.
Think about the people you love who have reached that stage.
We used to Revere elderly people. Their wisdom, their love,
(21:01):
them just because they they they are our elders. They
are the people who are, you know, brought us into
this world. And yet we're now we're saying, well, you
know what? If you can't climb rocks and, uh, and
perhaps you can't engage in a lot of romance the
way you once did, what's the point? It's really destructive.
And you wonder why elderly people say, I feel like
(21:24):
I'm a burden.
S1 (21:24):
Burden? Exactly. Right. Exactly. Because we foster this mythology, which
is ridiculous. So there's a segue here, and it really
does go to why I chose this particular podcast of humanize,
the podcast you do through the Center on Human Exceptionalism.
You were front and center on this story. And I
look back and I think God is merciful to us,
and that sometimes he gives us such a profound tutorial.
(21:45):
You can't say you ain't been told. And the entire
culture sat on the edge of its seat as the
life of Terri Schiavo was slipping away in front of
a watching culture. We've just passed the 20th anniversary of
her death. I have had the opportunity. Probably not as
much as you, but on multiple occasions I talked to Bobby,
her sister, his sister, her sister. You get it? Get
(22:06):
the right pronoun. Her brother. Her brother. That's right. Thank
you sir. And he commented on in this wonderful podcast
that you did. There was a lot of thinking back
and what it meant just for people who aren't familiar
with Terri's case, talk about what happened and why it
is important 20 years hence. We are still talking about
this issue because it is the antidote to the demonic
(22:27):
stuff that singer is posting and promoting.
S9 (22:29):
Well, the the Schindler family, which was her father, mother,
Terri Schiavo's father, mother and brother and sister found out
that her husband I call him her estranged husband. Yes.
And people say why? Well, because at the time of
these events, he was living with another woman whom he
called his fiancee and had two children with her. During
(22:53):
these events. Now, if that isn't an estrangement, I don't
know what is. And if that isn't a conflict of interest,
can you imagine the pillow talk where the the woman
he's sleeping with and and living with is having his
children and and he's married to someone else? Can you
imagine the tension that might arise? Mhm. So, uh, Michael
(23:15):
wanted to take away her feeding tube and the family
fought it. And it was a three year, uh, very
public struggle, uh, that I got deeply involved in. And
it ended tragically with dehydrating her to death. Now it's
very important. And Bobby talks about this very clearly. This
is not a quiet, little peaceful death. They took away
(23:37):
her water and all nutrition and all sustenance so that
her eyes dried out, her lips dried out, her mucosa
dried out. Bobby came out during that time, and one
of Michael's representatives said, I've never seen Mrs. Schiavo look
so peaceful. And he came out and he wailed, she's
bleeding from her eyes. And yet the American people looked
(23:58):
at this and decided, yeah, these people don't shouldn't be alive.
This was the right thing to do. I think it
was a tipping point in the culture of death, and
it's why I can never let it go.
S1 (24:09):
Amen and amen. Please don't ever do it. By the way,
if that isn't a promotion for you to listen now
to this podcast on humanize that Wesley did in his
conversation with Bobby, Terry's brother. I can't think of a
better promotion. Check it out. It's on our information page
in the market with Janet parshall.org. And I've also got
a link to the center on human exceptionalism. Wesley, that
went by too fast. We'll talk soon. There are dozens
(24:37):
of talk shows that address politics, culture and technology, but
in the market is committed to bringing biblical truths to
every facet of life. When you financially support in the
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(24:58):
the market with Janet Parshall. You will hear us discuss
the intersection of technology and theology on this program on
a regular basis. Why? Because it is a here and
now issue, not a future tense. And there are several
warning shots that need to be fired around this conversation. Now,
if you listen to this program with any regularity, you
(25:18):
heard a recent conversation I had with Doctor Drew Dickens,
who hosts a couple of podcasts. One is called AI
and spirituality. And I played some of the audio where
drew spoke with Sesames conversational AI called Maya. And they
discussed spiritual things. I won't refer to a machine ever
with human pronouns. There is no Imago dei there. It
(25:39):
is a machine any more than I call my washing machine. She.
Although she and I do spend a lot of time together,
but I digress. The point is, we need to ask ourselves,
what is the Pied Piper tune that's being played here?
What boundaries need to be put in place? And there
are some watchwords here for the church. Nobody does this
better than Doug Smith. I am thrilled I get a
(25:59):
chance to talk to him, and I already rue the
fact that I haven't dedicated an hour. So, Doug, fair warning.
You're going to come back. We're going to have an
hour's conversation. Maybe we even open up for questions as well,
for people to understand that this isn't a future tense.
This is right here, right now. But what you do
so beautifully is you biblically lay out what some of
those parameters are, but you come to the table with gravitas.
You've got all the cred you need to discuss this.
(26:21):
You were a decades long software engineer as well as
a passionate student of the Bible. You're an award winning
author focusing on helping families survive a screen captured world,
and you were a tech insider. And your guidance is
absolutely invaluable. So at renew and I put this up
on my website because in my classroom, no opt out,
this would be absolute required reading. If you were at
(26:42):
all interested in chat bots and AI, you have to
read this. This is an important word of warning, and
I don't think anybody's done it better than you, Doug.
In fact, I laughed out loud. I said Amen out loud.
And the sad part was I was in a public
space when I did it. So hey, I don't care.
I got all kinds of funny looks. I really enjoyed
what I was reading. Nonetheless, I also had the privilege
in the past to talk with Doug about his fabulous
(27:04):
book called Unintentional How Screens Secretly Shape Your Desires and
How You Can Break Free. So what you do beautifully.
And this is part of the insider. This is why
if this were a trial, I would make you my
expert witness. You come with the credentials, the gravitas to
be able to talk about this. You're not just a
Bible student trying to understand tech. You are one and both.
You understand as an insider how the tech works. You
(27:26):
understand how the word has to be applied to this.
So talk to me about, first of all, just conversational
AI chat bots and where you think the designers. Maybe
this is a good way to start this conversation. Where
do you think the designers not hope to are planning
on going with this technology.
S10 (27:44):
Well, wow thank you Janet. What a what an awesome introduction.
It's such an honor to be with you again. I
love your show and I just love your heart for
the subject. Thank you. Well, so so yeah, as as Christians,
we do need to care about who is making the
products that we're using. Um, and if you if you've
been around, nobody who's not been under a rock for
the last couple of years has not heard incredible predictions
(28:08):
about the power of AI and how it's going to
transform everything. Well, the worldview of many of the creators,
the Sam Altman's, the Elon Musk's, the, um, the founder, the,
you know, Kurzweil's and all the rest. They have really
what I've been calling a Christian eschatological view. They're they
have some last days goals of their own. They're really
(28:29):
ushering in kind of a salvation with their tools. And, um,
they some of them are even admitting the idea that
they're creating God, Kurzweil is quoted as saying when asked,
do you believe in God or God exists? And his
answer was not yet. Meaning that they're there. The power
that they're creating because they believe they're the the level
(28:50):
of intelligence will so supersede ours. They're basically creating what,
you know, kind of what we would deify if we knew.
So as Christians, we kind of know where that language goes.
And it doesn't end and it doesn't end well.
S1 (29:03):
Yeah, exactly. So let me let me go to the
church now. So I think it's important that people understand
that these are machines programmed by people who have a worldview.
I'm making this very simple, but it's paramount that we
understand this. This isn't just motherboards and diodes. This is
a worldview. So let me take it out of the
world and put it into the church. I have such
an uneasiness in my spirit, Doug. Every time I hear
(29:26):
churches talk about how much more reliant they are on
chat bots and AI, the first thing that went through
my mind was, wait a minute, how do you study
to show yourself approved unto God, a workman that needeth
not to be ashamed? If you're letting a machine write
your sermon. I don't get that. Where is the workings
of the Holy Spirit in your life? If you're letting
a machine do the thinking for you? And in Germany,
(29:47):
they've already got people attending churches where the chatbot delivers
the sermon. Where is God in that?
S10 (29:53):
God is. I mean, God is sad for my view.
I think God is. God is seeing what I. What
I like to point to is Psalm 115. Um, Psalm
115 goes through the idea of making an idol and
what what the idols do. The idols have mouths, but
they do not speak. They have eyes, they do not see,
(30:13):
they have ears, but they do not hear, and so on.
The real kicker phrase at the end of that, or
in the middle of that, it says, they that make
them shall become like them, yea, even one who trusts
in them. So by trust, by placing our trust in
these chatbots that are made by the creators to basically
have godlike powers, we're placing an idolatrous really for many
(30:34):
people and they don't realize it. You know, the average
person who's thinking, gosh, ChatGPT. It's amazing. You type in
some question and get this amazing answer. They don't realize
that the where this is leading them and what it's
intentionally designed to bring about. So yeah, it's really concerning.
And I'm right with you. That's why I wrote this article, Janet.
And I'm telling you, I'm seeing.
S1 (30:55):
Well, Doug, that's why I put it on my website,
because I thought every single person within the sound of
my voice needs to be reading this article. We have
to understand there is a Pied Piper afoot here, and
it is a deadly tune. Now again, let me just say,
for those who don't yet know Christ as their personal
Savior who might be listening, I can't live without technology.
I couldn't be talking to you without technology right now.
It actually enhances my ability to proclaim the gospel of
(31:17):
Jesus Christ. But that doesn't mean there isn't a cautionary
tale around this particular advancement in technology. So you just
talked about trust. In fact, one of the points you
made in this article was we asked questions of people
we trust. So if I've got a bunch of ones
and O's, why should I trust that? Because one of
the things you also point out in the article is
that this machine isn't about reality, it's about inputted data.
(31:41):
So when it spits out something that sounds oh so
spiritual or oh so theological, I can trust the inerrant, transcendent,
immutable word of God because the Bible doesn't contain the
Word of God. It is the Word of God. That's
a machine that's been programmed. So why would people acquiesce
trust to a machine, especially on theological and spiritual issues?
S10 (32:03):
Well, that's so great, Janna. And again, as as you
mentioned earlier, I'm a technologist. I'm a software engineer. You know,
I'm not afraid of technology, I love technology, I think
technology can be used for really good things. The problem
is when people use the word technology kind of writ
large and don't look at a tool for what it
actually is and chat. Chat bots, especially generative AI chat bots,
(32:24):
are specifically designed to be relational. The user interface of conversational.
The conversational user interface is where they're, you know, they
sound like they care, they sound confident. They sound even emotional.
They apologize if they make a mistake. These kind of things,
these are very human characteristics. We're told they're intelligent. We're
(32:46):
told they're knowledgeable. So all these stories, we believe all
these things go into play to cause a real similar
behavior or similar, um, uh, engagement that we have with
even social media tools that are designed to be engaging
and to cause us to want to use them more.
And so, um, so we build a level of trust
because they're designed by top behavioral psychologists and neuroscience scientists
(33:11):
to exploit our behavioral psychology and to build a true
trust relationship. And think about it. Before chatbots came out,
who did we chat with? We chatted with our family
and our friends like we've chatted. We only chatted with
other humans. This feels the same. So it touches the
same trust buttons in our in our psychological makeup. And, uh,
because many of the answers seem so plausible, we're like, wow,
(33:34):
how did it know that? Gosh, this is you know,
so that's really the direction it takes us.
S1 (33:39):
This is why we have to do a full hours conversation,
because there's so many nuances to this. So I'm not
going to rush through. We'll just pick this up when
you and I decide we're going to get together for
a full hour. But let me go to what you
just said. You know, it's easy to drop this into
the context of the sterility of science. It's just tech.
But as you know, as somebody who worked in this world,
there is a profundity of psychology. Talk to me about that.
(34:02):
Build that out a little bit for me, that when
you're just putting something on Facebook, it's just technology. Oh no.
When you're on a screen and you say, I'm just
going to check a couple of things, the next thing
you know, an hour and a half has gone by.
None of that happens by accident. There's profound psychological manipulation
taking place. Talk to me about that.
S10 (34:19):
Oh, totally. Janet, the, um, that's the reason I called
my book unintentional, is that most people, most of us
are unintentional in the way we spend that time. But
big tech is incredibly intentional. I mean, they spend millions
of millions of hours, billions of dollars, again, as I said,
top experts in all these fields, they run thousands and
(34:39):
thousands of tests to see what works and what's what.
Their goal is what the magical word is engagement. We
are constantly engaged. We're constantly using what they're using their products.
And by exploiting our weaknesses. So every every new like
like did you scroll did you did you pause? Did
(35:00):
you click like on that. Oh you didn't. Oh you
only watched that video only halfway through. All that is
scientifically measured and put back into the algorithm which then
feeds you more. And next time they won't lose you
so quickly, and next time you'll spend more time. And
that's by again exploiting our weaknesses. You know just how
God made us. They've learned kind of the secret of
how to tweak that and tune that. And it's why
(35:23):
the average person spends eight plus hours a day on
their platforms and why, you know, all the other side
effects have happened. And these same people today are building
generative AI for similar goals.
S1 (35:34):
Exactly. And that's that's such an important point. So if
you were reading this, you take your yellow magic marker
out and just underline what Doug just said. So it
wasn't going to stop at that idea of, let's keep
you on the page. It's going to be far more
intentional than that. In fact, let me pick it up
on this side of the other side of this, Doug,
to talk about it. So why, in fact, would these
creators have to make people like Maya Sesame's beta conversational
(35:58):
AI so that she has inflection, she has warmth, she affirms.
She dialogues back and forth. She wants you to discover,
as we heard when I played some of the clips
on this program, who you are as a human. Wait, wait,
stop the presses. So this machine is going to teach
me to know who I am as a human being.
I'm sorry. Isn't that the role of the Word of
God and the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit? Not
(36:19):
a machine, but what is it about the condition of
the human heart that says, I hunger for this kind
of companionship, even if it's a robot that looks like
a dog or runs a marathon as a robot. Just
did recently back after this with Doug Smith. Very important
(36:48):
conversation with Doug Smith, who is a decades long software engineer,
passionate student of the Bible, and award winning author. He
focuses on helping families survive a screen saturated world. That's
why I strongly recommend his book, Unintentional How Screens Secretly
Shape Your Desires and How You Can Break Free, and
what's so preciously important and prescient, if I can put
(37:10):
it that way about Doug, is that I think God
has raised him up for such a time as this
because he understands how the technology works. He can pull
back the curtain for The Wizard of Oz and he
can say, this is what's happening, and then he can
take that and align it next to what Dwight Moody
called the straight stick of truth, the Word of God.
How do you do this with this? If this is
just a tool, is it coming into alignment or contradicting
(37:30):
the transcendent principles found in God's Word? And boy, do
we need voices like that right now? Because, again, this
isn't future tense. Oh, we don't have to worry about
it for another 15 years. In fact, Doug, isn't there
a word in the industry when they talk about the
advances now are not just going to be I'll put
it in my very, very simplistic parlance. They're no longer
baby steps at this point forward. Aren't the technicians talking
(37:50):
about giant steps forward?
S10 (37:53):
Yeah, they're talking about exponential exponentials. They're talking about, you know,
they're talking about leaps that, um, that have really never
been seen before. They're world changing leaps. Um, the, uh, um,
the center for Humane Technology, Tristan Harris and Aza Raskin,
they did a thing called the AI dilemma, where they
(38:14):
talk about, um, just the concerns that they had a
couple of years ago. And that's what they talk about,
this double exponential curve of, of growth and, um, just
changing everything. So that's that's their vision.
S1 (38:25):
You know, it's interesting, I just by accident, although I
don't think things happen by accident in God's classroom. I
think the gentleman's name was Hilton. He got a Nobel Prize.
He was studying the brain, but he got very much
into AI. And he thinks this is the man who
was in this up to his eyeballs. He said, they're
going to outdistance us, referring to the machines. So in
other words, it's not a Saturday afternoon sci fi film.
(38:46):
He's saying that if my words not his, if we
don't put moral parameters around this technology, we're in some
very interesting times. And again, I don't say this from
a spirit of fear because his word says I don't
have that. It's power, love, and of a sound mind.
I don't have a spirit of fear, but I'm supposed
to get wisdom. The book of Proverbs tells me so.
This kind of technology. I want to make sure that
(39:07):
I understand exactly what I'm partnering with. So it goes
to a coupling of words that you used when you say,
you can't just look at this as a tool. In fact,
you call it a tool trope. Flesh that out for me.
S10 (39:19):
Yeah, that's that's what I really think is so important.
We're so used to kind of taking whatever is served,
but in the buffet of big tech and, and just thinking,
we know what it is. Oh, it's just a computer. Oh,
it's just this. It's just that. Um. And we use this.
We excuse it with what I call the tool trope,
which is it's just a tool. It's morally neutral. I
(39:40):
can use it for good or evil. And, um, we
we really don't say that about anything else. We don't
say we we do talk about, you know, people talk about.
It's a brick, you know, you can build a house.
You can throw it through a window. It's fire. You
can warm yourself. You can, you know, commit arson, you know. Um,
but what people don't realize is that the technology tools,
(40:00):
while they look harmless, and as you mentioned earlier, they're
so easy to use. The voices, the inflections, all these things,
like they're designed to be that way. What they don't
realize is these tools are designed for a purpose, and
the purpose is to control us. The their purpose is
to take us to a certain destination. We are the
object of being shaped. We're our desires are being shaped
(40:21):
by them. It's not that we, and even that story
of the tool trope is part of what we tell
ourselves to accept what we're doing. And there's a lot
of other stories we tell ourselves, especially about generative AI.
It's always getting better. It's the way of the future.
All get left behind. You know, all these things. Um,
and we say, well, and we're more efficient and look
what else we can do. Um, all these stories that
(40:43):
we tell ourselves. Excuse what? What ends up what I'm.
What I'm seeing and what I'm even reading in, in
other sources is that, you know, we're losing the ability
to think for ourselves. We're losing the ability to discern,
to have wisdom. All these things are vital, God given
characteristics that we're outsourcing to big tech. And they're not
a good, uh, they're not a good substitute.
S1 (41:04):
Well, there's a whole vein there. So let me just
linger here for a minute. Again. Why? You and I
need an hour's conversation. I have thought from day one
what I'm bothered about. I, um, my concerns are we
squash the gift of creativity. We're asking a machine to
do it for us instead. So I worry about that.
The great books of the world are not going to
be written by a robot. They can put, you know,
(41:24):
remember the experiment, put enough monkeys in a room with typewriters,
and you'll end up with the works of Shakespeare. I'm
not interested in that. Thank you. It actually takes away
from number two. I worry about the opportunity for my
brothers and sisters in the human race to flourish. Every
time somebody goes, we replace these jobs with robots. I'm going,
you're going to rue that decision, because eventually you'll get
robots to do the job of people. How are we
(41:44):
looking out for our fellow man if we take them,
take away the opportunity for them to thrive? Third of all,
we have to understand that this technology is far from neutral.
Why has China, the communist regime whose stated goal is
global hegemony, said that they plan on winning the race
for AI? Nothing happens in that regime without an intersection
with the military. They're not making robots that run marathons.
(42:06):
They have bigger plans for this stuff.
S10 (42:09):
Oh, you're right on, Janet. All of that is so true.
You know, we, um, the thing I like to say
is that this, this technology is pushing us from the
spot of being a creator, kind of in, in the
image of God. God gave us these creative gifts, especially writing,
especially communicating with words using the gift of the word
that he gave us, you know, um, and we instead
(42:30):
become in this posture of consumer. And instead of so
we're not producing, we're not creating, we're consuming, we're critics.
And in the critic and consumer posture, we we get lazy, right?
We get and then we can be led. We can
be led anywhere. And it's a really, really dangerous place,
especially for the church and for our our pastors especially
(42:51):
to be, uh, and I hate to see that happening.
S1 (42:55):
I do too, and I love your boldness in writing
this piece, because you name names and I think that's important.
We just need to understand, you know, I was thinking
there were so many. This is why I'm being truthful
when I tell you that I was Amen out loud
in so many spots. And reading the article is that
God is big on preparation. If he wasn't, then why
did Paul have to go to Arabia? And why did
Jesus not start his ministry until he was 30? And
(43:17):
why did Moses have to lead sheep before he led
people preparation, preparation, preparation? Rather than opening your computer, going
to a chat bot and say, you know, give me
your sermon on First Thessalonians, there's no preparation. You've actually.
It reminds me, and I'm going to date myself. It
reminds me of using Cliff's Notes when you were in college.
You didn't have to read War and Peace. Just get
the book in the bookstore. It'll tell you what the
(43:38):
book was all about. Well, that's kind of a modern
day version of a chatbot. You don't have to do
the work. Let the machine do the work instead. How
does that better humankind, rather than the tough stuff of
pushing through, of examining, of sifting and weighing, of learning
how to think critically? The list goes on and on
and on. I didn't even get to the Venn circles.
I want our friends to know, Doug, how generative AI
(43:58):
captivates us. This was a stunning part of your article.
So I'll tell you what. When we get together and
we finally got that date set for a full hour conversation,
that's exactly where we're going to start again. Somebody who
loves the Lord, loves his word and has got background
in all of this technology, the perfect apologist for what
we're dealing with as a 21st century issue. It's a
(44:18):
real and present danger, and we need to talk about
it through the lens of Scripture. Doug, thank you so
much for a great conversation, a fabulous article. I already
look forward to our time together. See you next time, friends.
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