July 17, 2025 • 44 mins
The Body of Christ today doesn't understand a crucial aspect of the Abrahamic covenant: we have a calling, gifting, and command to influence places and people in authority in order to impact culture with Kingdom values. Dave Kubal, President of Intercessors for America, will address the difference between prayer and intercession as well as the impact of God's permissive and perfect will on how we pray.
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S2 (01:50):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:52):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (01:55):
Americans worshiping government over God by.
S3 (01:57):
Extremely rare safety move by a.
S4 (02:00):
17.
S5 (02:00):
Years the Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S1 (02:18):
Hi, friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. Well,
you just heard the cacophony of the marketplace of ideas.
And I wonder how many people shopping and looking and
listening to the ideas that are being bought and sold
at that place, stop and meander at a booth talking
about prayer. Now, you know, culture writ large. Well, if
they don't have a relationship with the living God, why
would you bother to have a conversation with him? But
(02:39):
for the church capital C universal, why is prayer such
an often difficult subject for us on a regular basis?
Is it because we think it has to be formulaic
that God won't listen unless we do it a specific way?
Do we think that God doesn't answer our prayers? Do
we think, well, we can't change God's mind. So why
be involved in the exercise of prayer to begin with?
And then there's the pragmatics. I think I have to
(03:01):
check my email, but what is that? The dryer that
just went off. Oh, that's the dog. I have to
let the dog back in and the mind wanders all
over the place. Come on, let's be transparent with one another.
It's true. Right? But then you stop and think about it,
and you just step back, and you take a deep breath,
and you set your mind on things above. And you
realize that we have the privilege of talking to a king. Now,
not everybody can just walk into a throne room and
(03:23):
talk to a king. I've had the privilege of talking
to people who are very high in their kingdom princes,
and these are people who we're told ahead of time,
do not speak unless His Majesty speaks to you. Do
not touch His Majesty. Do not start a conversation unless
he starts one with you. Boy, am I thankful the
King of all kings doesn't tell me that's what I
can do. In fact, he encourages me to run into
(03:45):
the throne room and to be able to reach up
to him with my petitions. And he'll hear them. And
even when I can't even utter them, the groanings of
the Holy Spirit will transfer them to him. What a
precious concept. Now, I wonder if you started thinking about
the fact that prayer doesn't just change you and your
family and your neighborhood, but it could impact nations and generations.
Would we start taking prayer a little bit more seriously?
(04:07):
That's what we're going to talk about this hour in
a book entitled Impacting Generations Mobilizing Christians Through Intercession, prayer,
and Action. Dave Coble is with us. He is CEO
and president of intercessors for America. That is a massive
grassroots organization uniting hundreds of thousands of citizens to pray
and then take up actions on the issues confronting America.
(04:28):
And what intercessors also does is it equips Christians, you
and me, to engage and speak truth into the important
cultural debates of our day. And Dave, by the way,
has been involved in prayer ministry for a long period
of time, 35 plus years in national ministry. Overall, he
is a seminary trained ordained pastor, former VP of Fellowship
of Christian Athletes, and he's also the author of We
(04:50):
Declare Inspired Stories, inspired Prayers, inspired people and fasting. So
today the book he's written is the one we're talking
about impacting generations. Dave. The Warmest of Welcomes. I've really
been looking forward to this conversation. So tell me, first
of all, I happen to be absolutely crazy about Fellowship
of Christian Athletes. Maybe when your dad's a football coach,
it's just in your blood, but it's a jump to
go from that to intercessors. Tell me how that happened
(05:11):
in your life.
S6 (05:13):
Well, I was so pleased to work with athletes and
coaches for nearly 20 years, and the opportunity to switch
into a whole nother line of ministry, intercessory prayer was
given to me and I took advantage of it. And
I haven't looked back 16 years now as the CEO
(05:33):
of IFA, it's been incredible. Janet.
S1 (05:36):
Well, I'm so glad and I'm so thankful, obviously, because
there's been so much fruit in your ministry. So you
were listening to the Lord and you did respond in obedience.
But I gotta talk about this prayer thing, you know, because,
you know, after all the years that you've been doing this,
I don't get it. Why are we so tepid in
this area? Why do we not understand? And we're certainly
not going to be praying to impact generations if we
can't think it's going to impact today.
S6 (05:57):
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it's amazing. First of all, Janet,
to consider the fact that over the the course of humanity, men, humankind,
men and women have been reaching out to God somehow,
some way, God has wired within creation the sense that
that we can communicate with the creator, with the God
(06:19):
of heaven. And then as we know the scriptures, we
know that God has slowly, over time, developed this communication
process that we use one word and it's such, such
a simplistic word and it's so insufficient. And communicating this
concept of, of of communicating with God with just a
(06:39):
word prayer. And so that's what I'm excited about with
this new book I put out Impacting Generations and how
ordinary people can Influence the Future nations.
S1 (06:50):
Yeah. So I'm going to ask some rudimentary questions, because
I do want people to get some fire in their
bones by the time our conversation is over. So talk
to me about prayer, because if we're talking about impacting generations,
there are people and you know the questions. You've heard
them all in your multiple years in ministry. But a
lot of people are thinking, well, my prayers aren't going
to change God's mind. Maybe it'll change me, but it
won't change his mind. So why would I bother to
(07:11):
pray at all?
S6 (07:13):
Yeah. Well, so under the banner of God's sovereignty, he
is ultimately in charge of the universe. He's ultimately in
charge of the future of this nation. You have two thoughts.
You have his perfect will and his permissive will. His
perfect will is all is that we all would follow
him and walk with him closely. But because he's given
(07:37):
us the opportunity through free will to love him freely,
that introduces the concept of permissive will. So God is
in charge of all, but he gives us the stewardship
of our own lives and of government and nations, and
we have the chance and opportunity to walk with him in,
(07:59):
in being obedient to him. That's where prayer and intercession
comes in. He has a perfect will for all of
our lives. He has a perfect will for nations. But
when it comes to working life out with the sense
of free will in there, that's where we need his
involvement and and his help. You know, Janet, certain things
(08:19):
are only released through prayer. That's the way he has
designed the universe, and he's designed it in that way.
Because if we can just do all things ourselves, or
if God is in charge of everything, then, then what's
the point? Either we're in charge of our own lives
or God is in charge of everything, but it's really
(08:41):
that that interplay between the two where we get to
cooperate with God and being obedient, but certain things in
our lives will only be released through prayer and intercession.
S1 (08:52):
Oh, I'm going to ask a question and then you're
going to hear the music. So I'm going to look
for the answer in the other side. But it's such
a good question because you just said it twice. And
that is certain things cannot be released except through prayer.
I bet there are people listening all over the country
right now who would say, Janet, ask him, what are
some of those things? So that's my question, Dave. When
we come back, what are some of those things that
in fact can only be released through prayer? Dave Kubal
(09:16):
is with us. He is the president and CEO of
intercessors for America. It's going to be a great conversation
based on his newest book called Impacting Generations Mobilizing Christians
Through Intercession, prayer, and Action. We're going to take a
break and we'll be right back after this. Street evangelist
(09:48):
Ray comfort has spent decades pointing people to Jesus, and
I want you to do the same. That's why I've
chosen why Jesus is this month's truth tool. Ray shares
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of Why Jesus, when you give a gift of any
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(10:09):
or go to. In the market with Janet Parshall. We
have the privilege of spending the hour with Dave Kubal,
who's the president and CEO of intercessors for America. He
has a brand new book out, and now I will
correct the subtitle. Forgive me for saying it wrong the
first time. It's called Impacting Generations how ordinary people, that's
you and me can influence the future of nations. So
(10:32):
we're going to get you and me some encouragement during
the course of this hour. How we can just do that.
Just imagine giving the opportunity, the privilege of influencing nations.
I think that's superb. But I want to go back
to something you said before because I don't think we're
going to get excited about impacting generations if we don't
understand the power of prayer first and foremost. So you
made a statement, Dave. You said certain things are only
released through prayer. What are some of those things?
S6 (10:56):
Well, the the beautiful thing, the frustrating thing, the mysterious thing, Janet,
is we don't know. We don't know in the heart
of God what we should do actively, what we should think,
nor what God will release. So the the beautiful thing
of that, though, is because we don't know what God
(11:19):
will only do through prayer and intercession causes us to
be humble and dependent upon our creator. So just simply
that position of our heart before God, realizing that we
don't know exactly what God will only release through prayer,
positions us for him to answer our prayers. And, you know,
(11:43):
there's a there's beautiful words in the scriptures, both in
the Hebrew language, in, in the Greek language that create
these beautiful pictures of, of again, what we say just
with one word prayer. And in the Old Testament there
is this word that Solomon uses as he's dedicating the
temple to God, where God's physical presence would come and
(12:05):
dwell on earth. And he says at the beginning of
this prayer, Lord, when you hear our prayers in this word,
is this, this Hebrew tefilah the that's the, that's the sound,
that's the that's the name in, in Hebrew. But what
it means is, it means that it is a self
judgment and an introspective heart that you are coming before
(12:31):
the before the God of the universe, first and foremost,
judging yourself introspecting your own lives and saying, is my
heart in alignment with God in its times in history
of humanity, that God drops in these concepts of how
we communicate with him. And very early on in the
(12:55):
history of humanity, there is this idea that God cements
through this prayer of Solomon that positions us to hear
from God in order to know how to best come
before him and to pray in existence his will. And
that's the idea of self-judgment and introspection.
S1 (13:16):
Mm. That's great. You talk about covenants early on. In fact,
this is important part of the book. You talk about
the mosaic covenant, you talk about the Davidic Covenant, the
New Covenant. But then you referenced something called the lost
covenant of Abraham. Tell me about that.
S6 (13:30):
Well, the lost covenant of Abraham, and I've titled it
that just for kind of intrigue, the lost Ark of
the covenant and all just for fun. But I really
believe that there's five main covenants in Scripture, and it goes,
we go over that, I go over that in the book,
but it's the covenant of Abraham that stands unique from
the other four in that it was it was it
(13:53):
was meant to be fulfilled at the time of Abraham.
And then for Abraham's descendants throughout humanity, which is us
men and women of the Judeo-Christian faith. So here, here's Janet,
here's here's the covenant. And I'll paraphrase because we're on
the radio. Uh, the angel of the Lord says to Abraham,
your descendants will be as numerous as the sands on
(14:15):
the shore and as numerous as the stars in the sky.
And your descendants will possess the gates of the enemy,
and your descendants will bless the nations. And this concept
of possessing the gates of authority. This is a governmental.
This is governmental language, Which the Abrahamic Covenant is all
(14:39):
about influencing seats of authority, possessing the gates at the gates.
In the ancient times, those were the places where the
elders would implement the the the policy, implement the laws,
the regulations of someone who would come into the walled city.
They would come through the gate. And so the descendants
(15:01):
of Abraham were given the authority to influence seats of authority,
influence the gates of the enemy in order that we
would bless the nations. And, you know, here's kind of
the overall picture that we have a governmental calling to
be involved in policy setting in order that God's values,
(15:26):
that his kingdom would come on earth just as they
are in heaven. So I say, it's the lost covenant
of Abraham because, uh, that that understanding that the one
of the core covenants in the Scripture is governmental that's lost,
that's not talked about a whole lot.
S1 (15:44):
Mhm. Wow. Okay. So let me linger in Genesis for
a bit, because this is the same place where we're
going to hear that I will bless those who bless
them and curse those who curse them. So we're talking
about a nation being blessed here. And this is extremely important,
not just in Genesis but in today's environment as well.
So that you write says that we are told by
God to bless nations. In fact, that's a directive given
(16:06):
to us. Does it go beyond the application to the
Jewish people?
S6 (16:11):
Absolutely. And you shall bless. I will bless those who
bless you. Is the beginning of the Abrahamic covenant that
God gives him. And it comes in various stages, starting
in in Genesis 12 and I think again in 17
and then the, the, the full covenant, the, the summary
of of Abraham walking with God for, I don't know,
(16:33):
maybe 70 years. At that point I forget all the math,
but that summary is that your descendants will possess the
gates of the enemy and bless nations. And his descendants
are us, not only the Jews, but those who will
be walking within the faith of our patriarchs, the faith
(16:53):
of Abraham.
S1 (16:55):
Mm. Wow. When we come back, you do a wonderful
job of setting up this idea of blessing the nations.
And you give us several steps that God has done,
starting with God establishing the nations. Dave, when we come back,
walk through that, because I think there's some people are going, well,
you know, there are giants in the land. I'm just
a grasshopper. How in the world can I bless a nation,
(17:15):
and how does that work? What does that look like?
That's very important for people to really understand, again, the
privilege and the power of prayer impacting generations, how ordinary
people can influence the future of nations. Dave and I
know Washington DC, you know, this is our neck of
the woods, right? I am a war correspondent in Babylon.
I get this, but the bottom line is there are
a lot of people outside the Beltway who don't understand
(17:39):
what role we can play when we petition the King
of Kings for our nation and for all the nations
of the globe. It's pretty awe inspiring when you think
about it. More after this. We're visiting with Dave Kubal,
who's the CEO and president of intercessors for America. Hundreds
(17:59):
of thousands of grassroots individuals just joining together and interceding
on behalf of our great King for the nations of
the world, impacting generations. Dave's brand new book, How Ordinary
People Can Influence the Future of Nations. So I said,
and I'm so glad you laid this out systematically in
the book, Dave, but I think some rudimentary conversation is
(18:19):
good here. So, number one, it's inarguable that God establishes nations. Okay,
so from that, tell me some more.
S6 (18:27):
Well, God certainly establishes the nations. In fact, he establishes
three institutions within nations. I lay this all out in
the book in order to care for us. And one
is the family, one is the church, and one is government.
And he has a design and plan for the families,
for for churches, for spiritual lives, uh, and for government.
(18:50):
And it's just critical to understand that. But, you know, Jenna,
I get a question often on how do I, as
an ordinary person, influence the future of a nation? And
I gotta I got a story for you. Are you ready? Yes.
In fact, I got a pop quiz for all of
your listeners. I bet you can answer, uh, the. Give
(19:14):
me the. Help me. Give me the first line of
my story. And the the line is help! Help! Finish this. Mr. Gorbachev.
S1 (19:23):
Tear down that wall.
S6 (19:24):
Exactly. Tear down that wall. And those of us who
are in our age generation. Jana, we we remember that
moment in time and we reflect and remember that the
the wall of the the wall encircling Berlin came down
right after that. At least that's what we think. But
(19:46):
the story actually goes five years before President Reagan went
to the Brandenburg Gate. There's that gate idea again and
gave the famous speech where he said to the world, Mr. Gorbachev,
tear down the wall. So five years before that, there
were a group of pastors and a group of regular,
(20:08):
regular folks who got together on Monday nights to pray
for the power of communism to come down. So they
did this for five years. Every Monday night they began
to get in trouble with with the Communist forces, of course,
because they were deemed as as Revolutionaries or anti-government or whatever,
(20:29):
but they continue to pray and intercede. And and they
lit a candle, 40 candles every Monday night for the
40 years of communism, the 40 years of the Jews
being in the wilderness. And they asked God for deliverance.
So President Reagan comes and he goes in the fall. Actually,
(20:50):
the wall does not actually fall down. So they interceded.
Now another two years. So we're Janet, we're talking seven
years of prayer, where ordinary men and women, led by
a couple of pastors in Leipzig, they got together one
night and they felt of the Lord to do something
different that night. And so they handed all of the
(21:12):
all the people in that cathedral in the city, about
120 miles south of Berlin. And they said, what we're
going to do is we're going to pray, and we're
going to march to the city center of Leipzig. And
they when they went out those doors, they were they
were ready and prepared to lose their jobs the next day.
There were Communist troops that lined the street, Communist tanks
(21:36):
with machine guns on top. And they walked out that
door thinking they could have given up their lives in
order for this moment to pray in March. And, Janet,
would you believe that over 100,000 fellow Germans joined them
in their peaceful prayer march to the city center, praying
(21:59):
that God would break the power of communism? And it
was just two in. And as a result of that,
the soldiers put down their guns, went back to the barracks.
Some of the soldiers were handed candles, and they and
they they joined the peaceful march. And would you believe that, Janet,
(22:20):
that that what made such a shockwave Wave through the
communist Germany that within a week Erich Honecker, the dictator
of the German Democratic Republic, he resigned, and within the
month the wall came down. You see, policy is important,
leadership is important. But it is truly prayer that broke
(22:44):
the power of communism. And it's interesting to note that
as the dust settled, the wall came down. The disgraced
GDR leaders, the German democratic leaders, Janet, they said this.
It's truly an amazing admission that we were ready for
anything except for candles and prayer. And so that's just
(23:08):
a perfect illustration of how ordinary people can pray and
intercede and pray that good, godly policy would be, uh,
would be, um, stated and lobbied for, But ultimately it's
prayer and intercession that breaks the power of the enemy
(23:28):
in our culture.
S1 (23:29):
I'm so glad you shared that story. And I was thinking,
as you were telling it, that I'm wondering how much
more we would believe in the effective nature of prayer
if we knew stories like this. But if we don't
know stories like this. And by the way, if you
look at George Barna's research, we're getting cold. You know,
we're like the church of Laodicea right now. We don't
believe that the Bible is the Word of God. We
(23:51):
just think it contains the Word of God. Big distinction.
Maybe Jesus in. I don't think the devil is a
real person. So if we start thinking like that in
these latter days, then why wouldn't we likewise think that
prayer is tepid, ineffectual? Maybe yes, maybe no. Who knows?
But when you hear that it can move a nation
to tear down a wall of separation between liberty and captivity,
(24:11):
you start looking at the power of prayer in a
markedly different way. When we come back, Dave, you are
the president of intercessors for America, not prayers for America.
Is there a distinction between prayer and intercession? I want
to find out when we get back. Fabulous new important book,
and we talk about issues all the time on the
marketplace of ideas. But if we could understand the power
(24:31):
of prayer in changing hearts, minds and nations, I think
we would approach prayer in a remarkably different way. Dave's
new book is called Impacting Generations How Ordinary People Can
Influence the Future of Nations. More after this. What is
(24:56):
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(25:21):
Dave is with us, CEO and President of intercessors for America.
His brand new book is entitled Impacting Generations How Ordinary
People Can Influence the Future of Nations. And he just
gave you the story that was making headlines in heaven
on how the wall came down in Germany, a very
important historical lesson that we can impact nations just as
(25:43):
ordinary human beings. So I asked the question just before
the break, Dave, of what is the difference if there
is one between intercessory being an intercessor and being a prayer,
a prayer, a prayer warrior.
S6 (25:54):
A person of prayer? Absolutely. Well, let me first of
all say that intercession, intercession, the word intercessor. People have
various reactions to that. Some people are scared by it
and have no idea. And on the other end of
the spectrum, some people use the word intercession interchangeably with prayer.
(26:15):
But a chapter I cover in my book. Janet. I
title it Intercession is not prayer. And I phrase it
that way because it's true. But I also want to
raise some eyebrows to get the intrigue. In the New Testament.
There is this word prayer that is used over a
hundred times. And the most recognizable place, probably for most
(26:40):
is Jesus says, when you pray, pray this our father,
who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come,
thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread. And then Jesus
continues to walk through the different points of prayer. Literally,
(27:00):
the Greek word for prayer means to progressively walk through
a prayer request list. Prayer is about lists and prayer
is wonderful. And we need to pray our lists. But
I'm telling you, intercession is completely different. The word intercession
in the New Testament is used six times, and it
(27:25):
is a very specific word in that it is an
archery term. It literally means to hit for an archer
to hit the mark. During the time of the New
Testament and the writings of of Paul, specifically when he
used this word, the archers were the snipers of the day. Jan. Jan,
(27:46):
I think of your favorite, uh, Greek period, uh, movie.
I've got the image in my head right now, and
you've got The Archers standing off in the distance. And
they were specific, uh, specifically trained to hit a target. Now,
what a what? A sniper, the sniper of the day.
(28:06):
What the archers would do is they would wait for
the commander. They would listen to the commander. And then
when the commander told them what the target was, they
would release their arrow. And that's the concept of intercession.
This Greek word for intercession means that we enter into
(28:26):
a collaborative process where we listen to God before we
launch our prayers. So prayer is about lists. Intercession is
about listening.
S1 (28:40):
So in that vein, you write about Romans 826 where
it says in part, the Spirit Himself makes intercession for
us with groanings which cannot be uttered. So if it's
an intense specificity, how is the spirit doing that? In
other words, as the. It's more than the spirit praying
on my behalf. He is interceding on my behalf. Talk
(29:01):
to me about that. Distinctive because I think it's a
distinctive with an important difference.
S6 (29:05):
In fact, that verse uses the word prayer and intercession. Yes. Specifically,
it says, for you don't know how to pray. You
don't know the list of things that you should pray about,
but the Holy Spirit intercedes for you. The Holy Spirit
collaborates with you in order to to release these thoughts
(29:27):
of God. Now the keyword is the groans. Write these
unutterable groans, whatever your translation is. Uh, Janet, a lot
of times people interpret that as tongues, praying in tongues,
the gift of tongues. Well, I can tell you that
that is incorrect. The Greek word used in this Romans
passage is not the word for tone. Uh, tongues. The
(29:48):
Greek word is the the Greek word gamos. Now, I
say that because I want I want you to pick
up the pattern of, of this word. Because we get
this word, we get it the, the English word stenographer
from this Greek word. And so, Jen, what does this
(30:09):
stenographer do? A A stenographer sits in a courtroom or
an official place, and the stenographer listens to God, and he,
a stenographer, listens to the official proceedings and then interprets
it into the stenographer's typed language. And so when it
(30:30):
says that we are to be snipers for God through intercession,
what that means is we need to listen to God
and be his stenographers in order to release what he
tells us. So that Romans passage. I'm so glad you
brought that up, Janet. That Romans passage is critical in
understanding not only the difference that of prayer and intercession,
(30:53):
and that intercession is not prayer, but what exactly is intercession,
and that is us being God's stenographer.
S1 (31:00):
Yeah. And let me build on this, because I think
this is hugely important, so that there's a presupposition here
that I cannot be God's stenographer if I am not listening.
So first and foremost, I have to stay in tune
with the Lord. So it seems to me I've got
to be immersed in His word, and I have to
be in prayerful communication with him. Or how in the
world am I ever going to be his stenographer?
S6 (31:20):
You got it. Yeah, you got it, Jen. In fact,
when I go around doing conferences, I. We do an
exercise where I forbid people to pray and I say,
we're going to intercede right now. And it's the most
awkward ten minutes where people don't know what to do,
because when we're used to going to a prayer meeting,
(31:42):
you know, it's it's we're we're I guess that the,
the number of words that are used are valued. But
when you listen to God and you hear his voice
or receive these inaudible thoughts or impressions or images or
whatever in your head, then you have the ability to
(32:04):
release God's will on the face of this earth In
incredible ways. So it's absolutely correct. You're absolutely correct. We
have got to listen and and put our minds and
our hearts in neutral and say, Spirit of God, what
are you trying to tell me in this situation? What
what is your will to release.
S1 (32:24):
Yeah. Personal story. Admiral Barry Black, whom I've had the
privilege of interviewing multiple times, chaplain of the US Senate.
He told me that very often he just goes down
on his knees in his office when the door is
finally closed and it's open constantly. But when it's finally
closed and he says, the first words out of his
mouth are, I'm listening, Lord. And I thought, wow, that's
(32:44):
really important. Not talking about the Lord, not running with
all of my needs and wants and requests, but instead saying,
I'm going to be still and I'm going to listen
to what he has to say. For me now, one
of the joys is we already know some of the
things he said, because we've got the revelation of his word,
which I'm so thankful for. So let me draw this
back to nations. So Paul's teaching his young protégé Timothy,
(33:05):
and he tells us to pray for those in authority.
And then what I love about that passage is not
just the directive, particularly for those of us who live
and work in DC. We understand how important that is,
but it comes with a promise. So I don't have
to guess God's position on praying for those in authority.
The directive has already been there. Am I interceding on
(33:25):
behalf of the United States and whatever other country I'm
praying for? Because there's no geographical limitation in that tutorial
from Paul. Am I being his stenographer when I'm praying
for those in authority because God has revealed what he
wants done?
S2 (33:38):
Mhm.
S6 (33:39):
Yes, absolutely. And I'm glad you brought up the first
Timothy two passage because you're exactly, exactly right. I says,
I urge you therefore to pray and actually says pray
and intercede for those who are in authority. And just
to take this to a higher level, Janet, there is
no place in Scripture where we in the Old Testament
(34:01):
or the New Testament where we are commanded to be intercession,
to intercede, to be intercessors. Other than this passage, the
only place in the expanse of the canon and the
revealed Word of God, the only place that we are
commanded to be an intercessor is where we are to
(34:21):
be called to be an intercessor for those who are
in authority. I tell you, Janet, that that Scripture says
that intercession is first and foremost a governmental activity, that
we might have quiet and peaceful lives as a second
half of that passage says, and then tying back to
the Abrahamic covenant, that we would be a blessing to nations.
(34:44):
Intercession is different than prayer. It's not the same in
intercession is first and foremost in primarily a governmental activity.
S1 (34:55):
Yeah. Wow. And some people are thinking, wait, how can
you talk about what the Bible has to say? And
also governmental activity that falls hard on ears that have
heard far too often that somehow praying for those in authority,
praying for nation is anathema because you're getting too entrenched
in the world you alluded to. The three institutions that
God made in this order family, government, church, families made
(35:16):
in a place of perfection. And then he gives us
government and we fight for the church. So we fight
for the church. We fight for our families. We hold
our nose when it comes to government, and yet we
are to be involved. And if you don't like politics, terrific.
How about being an intercessor for your nation? I mean,
that's a whole different perspective, is it not? Mhm.
S6 (35:35):
You're exactly right. And and this is one of the
key roles that we can play. We can, we can
release God's activity on the face of this earth through
prayer and intercession. And it's it's critical. And I just
encourage everybody out there to who's listening to our voices to, uh, to,
to take these the, the radio listening skills and apply
(35:59):
that to your communication process with God. Prayer is we're
commanded to pray and list our prayer list before God,
but we're also commanded to intercede and be listening and
be God's stenographers.
S1 (36:14):
Yeah, absolutely. Wow. Oh, this book is so rich, by
the way. Again, it's called Impacting Generations How Ordinary People
can Influence the Future of Nations. I love this book.
I love it because it reminds us of the role
that you and I have the privilege of playing. It's
a very humbling privilege to be an intercessor, but we
must step into that directive to be able to do it.
But I love the section of the book where you talk, Dave,
(36:36):
about ordinary people. The story of the wall coming down
is a part of that segment of the book. Share
some more when we come back, just so people can
be encouraged, ordinary people, to do extraordinary things through the
power of intercession. Back after this. Dave is with us,
CEO and President of intercessors for America. By the way,
(36:58):
I've got a link to the website I pray a lot.
A ton of excellent information there, right there in my
information page. But his newest book is called Impacting Generations
How Ordinary People Can Influence the Future of Nations. And
I said earlier, when you shared that wonderful story about
the wall, that we need to hear more of those
stories because we begin to understand the power of prayer.
(37:19):
One of our problems, I think, right through the church,
is that we fail to recognize not only the privilege,
but the power of prayer and intercession as well. So
you tell a lot of these ordinary people's stories. Share
some of them with us, Dave, because I think if
there's anything that'll put fire in their bones, it's this
part of the book.
S6 (37:35):
Well, I'm glad you asked, because I want to tell
you a personal story. For years and years, I've watched
how the church has taken a back seat to to
government and not been leading government issues and policy the
way that they they should. And and Janet, you you
you know as well as I that the result of
(37:58):
something called the Johnson Amendment has resulted in the American
church saying, we can't we can't talk about politics in
the in the church. We're going to lose our C3.
And so what happened in 1954 through this IRS code, which, uh,
was something very different than what the perception is, is
(38:20):
in America, was something that I, I truly believe needed
to be reversed. And so I began to pray about
that and for years prayed about the opportunity to see
the Johnson Amendment reversed. And so it's a really long story.
But about a year ago, a friend of mine came
to me and said, Dave, I'm looking for people to
(38:40):
be a part of a lawsuit to sue the IRS
to reverse the Johnson Amendment. And I said, oh, I'm in.
I'm absolutely in. So last August, we we filed a
suit against the IRS stating that the Johnson Amendment is
unconstitutional and it's inconsistently applied. Now, this was before the
(39:05):
election by President Biden was still president. We had no
idea how this would work its way out. But as
it worked its way through the court system in the
federal court, it resulted in the IRS making a settlement
to us, stating that they would reverse a portion of
(39:25):
the Johnson Amendment. And they with. And we agreed to
this settlement, and we filed that settlement in federal court
last Monday. Now, Jen, you might remember that on Tuesday
of last week, all over the headlines were the IRS
now allows pastor to endorse candidates. Well, that headline is
(39:48):
partially true although the decision is not complete.
S1 (39:52):
That's right.
S6 (39:52):
But that decision was done because I, a regular guy
along with others in a great lawyer. We sued the
Internal Revenue Service and because we sued them, they settled.
They offered us a settlement. And now it appears that
we're on the eve of the Johnson Amendment being reversed.
S1 (40:15):
Yes. And we have to pray for that end, because
what we got out of DOJ was a memorandum of understanding.
And that's good, because we have a DOJ that is
friendly to the church and an administration that's friendly to
the church. Fast forward, should the Lord tarry three and
a half years, you get an unfriendly administration and an
unfriendly DOJ. And if we don't get a legal resolution
on this, this battle is going to start all over again.
(40:37):
So I view this to be a blessed time out.
But we're far from over, so prayers still need to
be applied in this area, it seems to me.
S6 (40:44):
Well, yeah. And if I could clarify. So what we
filed was a joint resolution. It was the settlement between
the IRS and us. And this will be a permanent decision.
In the resolution, the IRS stated that there they are
giving up the power to appeal this case. And so
this will permanently reverse the Johnson Amendment. All that we're
(41:08):
waiting for is for the judge in this case to
accept the settlement that both our, my, our parties and
the IRS agreed to. And so we have full confidence
that a permanent solution, this is not an EO, an
executive order signed by a president. This is not a
temporary decision, nor is this a decision that would apply
(41:30):
only in a in a in a small part of
the country. This is a permanent resolution for part of
the Johnson Amendment that would affect the nation. And we're
on the eve of that.
S1 (41:41):
Yeah. Well, we're praying for a complete and total absolution
of what that church has done or that amendment has
done for so many years. Talk to me about Ryan Walters.
How is he an ordinary person? What does it mean
to stand for Christ but lose popularity?
S6 (41:56):
You're going to have to help me. Ryan Walters.
S1 (41:59):
Widely popular, admired history teacher in the small town of McAlester, Oklahoma.
And he advanced apparently a classes in US history world
history government uh, during his career. Apparently his his students
loved him very much, but apparently he was a man
that took a stand, uh, and he was pushed back.
This was under the previous administration. Walters quickly, uh, has
(42:21):
been pushed back by the former administration under the title
nine rules. So these are Christians who say, you know,
I'm not going to bend my knee to Caesar, but
I'm going to stand fast, and I'm going to say, look, uh,
I choose God over Caesar. I'm not going to use
prong pronouns. I'm not going to tell someone a lie.
Male and female, he created them both. And there's a
chance for us to intercede for good policy for our country.
(42:43):
But how about interceding on behalf of those individuals who
are willing to take a stand to say thus far
and no farther?
S6 (42:49):
Yeah, absolutely. And go back to your the premise of
this segment that we need to have encouraging stories of
real life incidences when people stand up and when God, um,
interacts and empowers people. And, you know, Janet, you talk
to the millions and millions at intercessors for America. We
(43:10):
interact with over a million a month. And we know
that the stories that are out there of what God
is doing are so great that we've got to quit
listening to the mainstream media that tries to push us
down and say that we're a minority, we're not a minority,
and God is doing great things in this nation.
S1 (43:29):
That's exactly right. How can anyone ever be deemed a
minority when we're with God, right? If God be for us,
who can be against us? It's a fabulous book. It's
called Impacting Generations How Ordinary People Can Influence the Future
of Nations. You stop and think about it. That kind
of should take your breath away. If it doesn't, well,
then I want you to reconsider what it means to
be an intercessor. And what Dave does so beautifully in
(43:51):
his book is he walks us through what that means
to be God's stenographer. I bet we never forget that
part of this conversation. And Dave expands on that in
this book as well. So I strongly recommend it to
you in the meantime. Also, I want you to visit
the website for intercessors. They've been doing marvelous work for many, many,
many years. I pray I said that slowly. If you're
(44:11):
in the car, don't worry about it. I've got it
on the information page. Just go to In the Market
with Janet Parshall. Click on the red box. It's just
below the program summary. It says Program Information and Details.
Clicking on it'll take you over to the page that
has everything you need to know. A longer bio for Dave,
a click to his website, intercessors for America, and the
(44:32):
book on the right hand side that I think should
be required reading for today. Impacting generations. How ordinary people
that's you and me can influence the future of nations.
Pretty inspiring, is it not? Thank you Dave so much.
Thank you friends. We'll see you next time on In
the Market with Janet Parshall.
Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
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It's Ray Comfort's book. Why? Jesus? If you listen to
(00:22):
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He is bold, unashamed of the gospel. And yet in
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by examples and through real conversations he's had on how
to share the gospel in exactly the same way. Listen,
(00:43):
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in truth, how can we keep this good news to ourselves?
So I want you to have Why Jesus as this
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(01:03):
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(01:25):
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(01:45):
with Janet Parshall. Now please enjoy the broadcast.
S2 (01:50):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:52):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (01:55):
Americans worshiping government over God by.
S3 (01:57):
Extremely rare safety move by a.
S4 (02:00):
17.
S5 (02:00):
Years the Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S1 (02:18):
Hi, friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. Well,
you just heard the cacophony of the marketplace of ideas.
And I wonder how many people shopping and looking and
listening to the ideas that are being bought and sold
at that place, stop and meander at a booth talking
about prayer. Now, you know, culture writ large. Well, if
they don't have a relationship with the living God, why
would you bother to have a conversation with him? But
(02:39):
for the church capital C universal, why is prayer such
an often difficult subject for us on a regular basis?
Is it because we think it has to be formulaic
that God won't listen unless we do it a specific way?
Do we think that God doesn't answer our prayers? Do
we think, well, we can't change God's mind. So why
be involved in the exercise of prayer to begin with?
And then there's the pragmatics. I think I have to
(03:01):
check my email, but what is that? The dryer that
just went off. Oh, that's the dog. I have to
let the dog back in and the mind wanders all
over the place. Come on, let's be transparent with one another.
It's true. Right? But then you stop and think about it,
and you just step back, and you take a deep breath,
and you set your mind on things above. And you
realize that we have the privilege of talking to a king. Now,
not everybody can just walk into a throne room and
(03:23):
talk to a king. I've had the privilege of talking
to people who are very high in their kingdom princes,
and these are people who we're told ahead of time,
do not speak unless His Majesty speaks to you. Do
not touch His Majesty. Do not start a conversation unless
he starts one with you. Boy, am I thankful the
King of all kings doesn't tell me that's what I
can do. In fact, he encourages me to run into
(03:45):
the throne room and to be able to reach up
to him with my petitions. And he'll hear them. And
even when I can't even utter them, the groanings of
the Holy Spirit will transfer them to him. What a
precious concept. Now, I wonder if you started thinking about
the fact that prayer doesn't just change you and your
family and your neighborhood, but it could impact nations and generations.
Would we start taking prayer a little bit more seriously?
(04:07):
That's what we're going to talk about this hour in
a book entitled Impacting Generations Mobilizing Christians Through Intercession, prayer,
and Action. Dave Coble is with us. He is CEO
and president of intercessors for America. That is a massive
grassroots organization uniting hundreds of thousands of citizens to pray
and then take up actions on the issues confronting America.
(04:28):
And what intercessors also does is it equips Christians, you
and me, to engage and speak truth into the important
cultural debates of our day. And Dave, by the way,
has been involved in prayer ministry for a long period
of time, 35 plus years in national ministry. Overall, he
is a seminary trained ordained pastor, former VP of Fellowship
of Christian Athletes, and he's also the author of We
(04:50):
Declare Inspired Stories, inspired Prayers, inspired people and fasting. So
today the book he's written is the one we're talking
about impacting generations. Dave. The Warmest of Welcomes. I've really
been looking forward to this conversation. So tell me, first
of all, I happen to be absolutely crazy about Fellowship
of Christian Athletes. Maybe when your dad's a football coach,
it's just in your blood, but it's a jump to
go from that to intercessors. Tell me how that happened
(05:11):
in your life.
S6 (05:13):
Well, I was so pleased to work with athletes and
coaches for nearly 20 years, and the opportunity to switch
into a whole nother line of ministry, intercessory prayer was
given to me and I took advantage of it. And
I haven't looked back 16 years now as the CEO
(05:33):
of IFA, it's been incredible. Janet.
S1 (05:36):
Well, I'm so glad and I'm so thankful, obviously, because
there's been so much fruit in your ministry. So you
were listening to the Lord and you did respond in obedience.
But I gotta talk about this prayer thing, you know, because,
you know, after all the years that you've been doing this,
I don't get it. Why are we so tepid in
this area? Why do we not understand? And we're certainly
not going to be praying to impact generations if we
can't think it's going to impact today.
S6 (05:57):
Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, it's amazing. First of all, Janet,
to consider the fact that over the the course of humanity, men, humankind,
men and women have been reaching out to God somehow,
some way, God has wired within creation the sense that
that we can communicate with the creator, with the God
(06:19):
of heaven. And then as we know the scriptures, we
know that God has slowly, over time, developed this communication
process that we use one word and it's such, such
a simplistic word and it's so insufficient. And communicating this
concept of, of of communicating with God with just a
(06:39):
word prayer. And so that's what I'm excited about with
this new book I put out Impacting Generations and how
ordinary people can Influence the Future nations.
S1 (06:50):
Yeah. So I'm going to ask some rudimentary questions, because
I do want people to get some fire in their
bones by the time our conversation is over. So talk
to me about prayer, because if we're talking about impacting generations,
there are people and you know the questions. You've heard
them all in your multiple years in ministry. But a
lot of people are thinking, well, my prayers aren't going
to change God's mind. Maybe it'll change me, but it
won't change his mind. So why would I bother to
(07:11):
pray at all?
S6 (07:13):
Yeah. Well, so under the banner of God's sovereignty, he
is ultimately in charge of the universe. He's ultimately in
charge of the future of this nation. You have two thoughts.
You have his perfect will and his permissive will. His
perfect will is all is that we all would follow
him and walk with him closely. But because he's given
(07:37):
us the opportunity through free will to love him freely,
that introduces the concept of permissive will. So God is
in charge of all, but he gives us the stewardship
of our own lives and of government and nations, and
we have the chance and opportunity to walk with him in,
(07:59):
in being obedient to him. That's where prayer and intercession
comes in. He has a perfect will for all of
our lives. He has a perfect will for nations. But
when it comes to working life out with the sense
of free will in there, that's where we need his
involvement and and his help. You know, Janet, certain things
(08:19):
are only released through prayer. That's the way he has
designed the universe, and he's designed it in that way.
Because if we can just do all things ourselves, or
if God is in charge of everything, then, then what's
the point? Either we're in charge of our own lives
or God is in charge of everything, but it's really
(08:41):
that that interplay between the two where we get to
cooperate with God and being obedient, but certain things in
our lives will only be released through prayer and intercession.
S1 (08:52):
Oh, I'm going to ask a question and then you're
going to hear the music. So I'm going to look
for the answer in the other side. But it's such
a good question because you just said it twice. And
that is certain things cannot be released except through prayer.
I bet there are people listening all over the country
right now who would say, Janet, ask him, what are
some of those things? So that's my question, Dave. When
we come back, what are some of those things that
in fact can only be released through prayer? Dave Kubal
(09:16):
is with us. He is the president and CEO of
intercessors for America. It's going to be a great conversation
based on his newest book called Impacting Generations Mobilizing Christians
Through Intercession, prayer, and Action. We're going to take a
break and we'll be right back after this. Street evangelist
(09:48):
Ray comfort has spent decades pointing people to Jesus, and
I want you to do the same. That's why I've
chosen why Jesus is this month's truth tool. Ray shares
proven methods for sharing your faith with love and confidence
to a lost and dying world. As for your copy
of Why Jesus, when you give a gift of any
amount in the market, call 877. 58. That's 877 58
(10:09):
or go to. In the market with Janet Parshall. We
have the privilege of spending the hour with Dave Kubal,
who's the president and CEO of intercessors for America. He
has a brand new book out, and now I will
correct the subtitle. Forgive me for saying it wrong the
first time. It's called Impacting Generations how ordinary people, that's
you and me can influence the future of nations. So
(10:32):
we're going to get you and me some encouragement during
the course of this hour. How we can just do that.
Just imagine giving the opportunity, the privilege of influencing nations.
I think that's superb. But I want to go back
to something you said before because I don't think we're
going to get excited about impacting generations if we don't
understand the power of prayer first and foremost. So you
made a statement, Dave. You said certain things are only
released through prayer. What are some of those things?
S6 (10:56):
Well, the the beautiful thing, the frustrating thing, the mysterious thing, Janet,
is we don't know. We don't know in the heart
of God what we should do actively, what we should think,
nor what God will release. So the the beautiful thing
of that, though, is because we don't know what God
(11:19):
will only do through prayer and intercession causes us to
be humble and dependent upon our creator. So just simply
that position of our heart before God, realizing that we
don't know exactly what God will only release through prayer,
positions us for him to answer our prayers. And, you know,
(11:43):
there's a there's beautiful words in the scriptures, both in
the Hebrew language, in, in the Greek language that create
these beautiful pictures of, of again, what we say just
with one word prayer. And in the Old Testament there
is this word that Solomon uses as he's dedicating the
temple to God, where God's physical presence would come and
(12:05):
dwell on earth. And he says at the beginning of
this prayer, Lord, when you hear our prayers in this word,
is this, this Hebrew tefilah the that's the, that's the sound,
that's the that's the name in, in Hebrew. But what
it means is, it means that it is a self
judgment and an introspective heart that you are coming before
(12:31):
the before the God of the universe, first and foremost,
judging yourself introspecting your own lives and saying, is my
heart in alignment with God in its times in history
of humanity, that God drops in these concepts of how
we communicate with him. And very early on in the
(12:55):
history of humanity, there is this idea that God cements
through this prayer of Solomon that positions us to hear
from God in order to know how to best come
before him and to pray in existence his will. And
that's the idea of self-judgment and introspection.
S1 (13:16):
Mm. That's great. You talk about covenants early on. In fact,
this is important part of the book. You talk about
the mosaic covenant, you talk about the Davidic Covenant, the
New Covenant. But then you referenced something called the lost
covenant of Abraham. Tell me about that.
S6 (13:30):
Well, the lost covenant of Abraham, and I've titled it
that just for kind of intrigue, the lost Ark of
the covenant and all just for fun. But I really
believe that there's five main covenants in Scripture, and it goes,
we go over that, I go over that in the book,
but it's the covenant of Abraham that stands unique from
the other four in that it was it was it
(13:53):
was meant to be fulfilled at the time of Abraham.
And then for Abraham's descendants throughout humanity, which is us
men and women of the Judeo-Christian faith. So here, here's Janet,
here's here's the covenant. And I'll paraphrase because we're on
the radio. Uh, the angel of the Lord says to Abraham,
your descendants will be as numerous as the sands on
(14:15):
the shore and as numerous as the stars in the sky.
And your descendants will possess the gates of the enemy,
and your descendants will bless the nations. And this concept
of possessing the gates of authority. This is a governmental.
This is governmental language, Which the Abrahamic Covenant is all
(14:39):
about influencing seats of authority, possessing the gates at the gates.
In the ancient times, those were the places where the
elders would implement the the the policy, implement the laws,
the regulations of someone who would come into the walled city.
They would come through the gate. And so the descendants
(15:01):
of Abraham were given the authority to influence seats of authority,
influence the gates of the enemy in order that we
would bless the nations. And, you know, here's kind of
the overall picture that we have a governmental calling to
be involved in policy setting in order that God's values,
(15:26):
that his kingdom would come on earth just as they
are in heaven. So I say, it's the lost covenant
of Abraham because, uh, that that understanding that the one
of the core covenants in the Scripture is governmental that's lost,
that's not talked about a whole lot.
S1 (15:44):
Mhm. Wow. Okay. So let me linger in Genesis for
a bit, because this is the same place where we're
going to hear that I will bless those who bless
them and curse those who curse them. So we're talking
about a nation being blessed here. And this is extremely important,
not just in Genesis but in today's environment as well.
So that you write says that we are told by
God to bless nations. In fact, that's a directive given
(16:06):
to us. Does it go beyond the application to the
Jewish people?
S6 (16:11):
Absolutely. And you shall bless. I will bless those who
bless you. Is the beginning of the Abrahamic covenant that
God gives him. And it comes in various stages, starting
in in Genesis 12 and I think again in 17
and then the, the, the full covenant, the, the summary
of of Abraham walking with God for, I don't know,
(16:33):
maybe 70 years. At that point I forget all the math,
but that summary is that your descendants will possess the
gates of the enemy and bless nations. And his descendants
are us, not only the Jews, but those who will
be walking within the faith of our patriarchs, the faith
(16:53):
of Abraham.
S1 (16:55):
Mm. Wow. When we come back, you do a wonderful
job of setting up this idea of blessing the nations.
And you give us several steps that God has done,
starting with God establishing the nations. Dave, when we come back,
walk through that, because I think there's some people are going, well,
you know, there are giants in the land. I'm just
a grasshopper. How in the world can I bless a nation,
(17:15):
and how does that work? What does that look like?
That's very important for people to really understand, again, the
privilege and the power of prayer impacting generations, how ordinary
people can influence the future of nations. Dave and I
know Washington DC, you know, this is our neck of
the woods, right? I am a war correspondent in Babylon.
I get this, but the bottom line is there are
a lot of people outside the Beltway who don't understand
(17:39):
what role we can play when we petition the King
of Kings for our nation and for all the nations
of the globe. It's pretty awe inspiring when you think
about it. More after this. We're visiting with Dave Kubal,
who's the CEO and president of intercessors for America. Hundreds
(17:59):
of thousands of grassroots individuals just joining together and interceding
on behalf of our great King for the nations of
the world, impacting generations. Dave's brand new book, How Ordinary
People Can Influence the Future of Nations. So I said,
and I'm so glad you laid this out systematically in
the book, Dave, but I think some rudimentary conversation is
(18:19):
good here. So, number one, it's inarguable that God establishes nations. Okay,
so from that, tell me some more.
S6 (18:27):
Well, God certainly establishes the nations. In fact, he establishes
three institutions within nations. I lay this all out in
the book in order to care for us. And one
is the family, one is the church, and one is government.
And he has a design and plan for the families,
for for churches, for spiritual lives, uh, and for government.
(18:50):
And it's just critical to understand that. But, you know, Jenna,
I get a question often on how do I, as
an ordinary person, influence the future of a nation? And
I gotta I got a story for you. Are you ready? Yes.
In fact, I got a pop quiz for all of
your listeners. I bet you can answer, uh, the. Give
(19:14):
me the. Help me. Give me the first line of
my story. And the the line is help! Help! Finish this. Mr. Gorbachev.
S1 (19:23):
Tear down that wall.
S6 (19:24):
Exactly. Tear down that wall. And those of us who
are in our age generation. Jana, we we remember that
moment in time and we reflect and remember that the
the wall of the the wall encircling Berlin came down
right after that. At least that's what we think. But
(19:46):
the story actually goes five years before President Reagan went
to the Brandenburg Gate. There's that gate idea again and
gave the famous speech where he said to the world, Mr. Gorbachev,
tear down the wall. So five years before that, there
were a group of pastors and a group of regular,
(20:08):
regular folks who got together on Monday nights to pray
for the power of communism to come down. So they
did this for five years. Every Monday night they began
to get in trouble with with the Communist forces, of course,
because they were deemed as as Revolutionaries or anti-government or whatever,
(20:29):
but they continue to pray and intercede. And and they
lit a candle, 40 candles every Monday night for the
40 years of communism, the 40 years of the Jews
being in the wilderness. And they asked God for deliverance.
So President Reagan comes and he goes in the fall. Actually,
(20:50):
the wall does not actually fall down. So they interceded.
Now another two years. So we're Janet, we're talking seven
years of prayer, where ordinary men and women, led by
a couple of pastors in Leipzig, they got together one
night and they felt of the Lord to do something
different that night. And so they handed all of the
(21:12):
all the people in that cathedral in the city, about
120 miles south of Berlin. And they said, what we're
going to do is we're going to pray, and we're
going to march to the city center of Leipzig. And
they when they went out those doors, they were they
were ready and prepared to lose their jobs the next day.
There were Communist troops that lined the street, Communist tanks
(21:36):
with machine guns on top. And they walked out that
door thinking they could have given up their lives in
order for this moment to pray in March. And, Janet,
would you believe that over 100,000 fellow Germans joined them
in their peaceful prayer march to the city center, praying
(21:59):
that God would break the power of communism? And it
was just two in. And as a result of that,
the soldiers put down their guns, went back to the barracks.
Some of the soldiers were handed candles, and they and
they they joined the peaceful march. And would you believe that, Janet,
(22:20):
that that what made such a shockwave Wave through the
communist Germany that within a week Erich Honecker, the dictator
of the German Democratic Republic, he resigned, and within the
month the wall came down. You see, policy is important,
leadership is important. But it is truly prayer that broke
(22:44):
the power of communism. And it's interesting to note that
as the dust settled, the wall came down. The disgraced
GDR leaders, the German democratic leaders, Janet, they said this.
It's truly an amazing admission that we were ready for
anything except for candles and prayer. And so that's just
(23:08):
a perfect illustration of how ordinary people can pray and
intercede and pray that good, godly policy would be, uh,
would be, um, stated and lobbied for, But ultimately it's
prayer and intercession that breaks the power of the enemy
(23:28):
in our culture.
S1 (23:29):
I'm so glad you shared that story. And I was thinking,
as you were telling it, that I'm wondering how much
more we would believe in the effective nature of prayer
if we knew stories like this. But if we don't
know stories like this. And by the way, if you
look at George Barna's research, we're getting cold. You know,
we're like the church of Laodicea right now. We don't
believe that the Bible is the Word of God. We
(23:51):
just think it contains the Word of God. Big distinction.
Maybe Jesus in. I don't think the devil is a
real person. So if we start thinking like that in
these latter days, then why wouldn't we likewise think that
prayer is tepid, ineffectual? Maybe yes, maybe no. Who knows?
But when you hear that it can move a nation
to tear down a wall of separation between liberty and captivity,
(24:11):
you start looking at the power of prayer in a
markedly different way. When we come back, Dave, you are
the president of intercessors for America, not prayers for America.
Is there a distinction between prayer and intercession? I want
to find out when we get back. Fabulous new important book,
and we talk about issues all the time on the
marketplace of ideas. But if we could understand the power
(24:31):
of prayer in changing hearts, minds and nations, I think
we would approach prayer in a remarkably different way. Dave's
new book is called Impacting Generations How Ordinary People Can
Influence the Future of Nations. More after this. What is
(24:56):
in the market mean to you? Is it a trusted
source for news? Your go to place for relevant discussions
on current events? I'm glad to have you in our
listening family, and I want to ask you to take
a next step. Will you become a partial partner and
help us continue here on your station? When you do,
you'll get personal emails and information from me. Become a
partial partner today by calling 877 Janet, 58 or go
online to in the market with Janet Parshall. Dot org.
(25:21):
Dave is with us, CEO and President of intercessors for America.
His brand new book is entitled Impacting Generations How Ordinary
People Can Influence the Future of Nations. And he just
gave you the story that was making headlines in heaven
on how the wall came down in Germany, a very
important historical lesson that we can impact nations just as
(25:43):
ordinary human beings. So I asked the question just before
the break, Dave, of what is the difference if there
is one between intercessory being an intercessor and being a prayer,
a prayer, a prayer warrior.
S6 (25:54):
A person of prayer? Absolutely. Well, let me first of
all say that intercession, intercession, the word intercessor. People have
various reactions to that. Some people are scared by it
and have no idea. And on the other end of
the spectrum, some people use the word intercession interchangeably with prayer.
(26:15):
But a chapter I cover in my book. Janet. I
title it Intercession is not prayer. And I phrase it
that way because it's true. But I also want to
raise some eyebrows to get the intrigue. In the New Testament.
There is this word prayer that is used over a
hundred times. And the most recognizable place, probably for most
(26:40):
is Jesus says, when you pray, pray this our father,
who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come,
thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread. And then Jesus
continues to walk through the different points of prayer. Literally,
(27:00):
the Greek word for prayer means to progressively walk through
a prayer request list. Prayer is about lists and prayer
is wonderful. And we need to pray our lists. But
I'm telling you, intercession is completely different. The word intercession
in the New Testament is used six times, and it
(27:25):
is a very specific word in that it is an
archery term. It literally means to hit for an archer
to hit the mark. During the time of the New
Testament and the writings of of Paul, specifically when he
used this word, the archers were the snipers of the day. Jan. Jan,
(27:46):
I think of your favorite, uh, Greek period, uh, movie.
I've got the image in my head right now, and
you've got The Archers standing off in the distance. And
they were specific, uh, specifically trained to hit a target. Now,
what a what? A sniper, the sniper of the day.
(28:06):
What the archers would do is they would wait for
the commander. They would listen to the commander. And then
when the commander told them what the target was, they
would release their arrow. And that's the concept of intercession.
This Greek word for intercession means that we enter into
(28:26):
a collaborative process where we listen to God before we
launch our prayers. So prayer is about lists. Intercession is
about listening.
S1 (28:40):
So in that vein, you write about Romans 826 where
it says in part, the Spirit Himself makes intercession for
us with groanings which cannot be uttered. So if it's
an intense specificity, how is the spirit doing that? In
other words, as the. It's more than the spirit praying
on my behalf. He is interceding on my behalf. Talk
(29:01):
to me about that. Distinctive because I think it's a
distinctive with an important difference.
S6 (29:05):
In fact, that verse uses the word prayer and intercession. Yes. Specifically,
it says, for you don't know how to pray. You
don't know the list of things that you should pray about,
but the Holy Spirit intercedes for you. The Holy Spirit
collaborates with you in order to to release these thoughts
(29:27):
of God. Now the keyword is the groans. Write these
unutterable groans, whatever your translation is. Uh, Janet, a lot
of times people interpret that as tongues, praying in tongues,
the gift of tongues. Well, I can tell you that
that is incorrect. The Greek word used in this Romans
passage is not the word for tone. Uh, tongues. The
(29:48):
Greek word is the the Greek word gamos. Now, I
say that because I want I want you to pick
up the pattern of, of this word. Because we get
this word, we get it the, the English word stenographer
from this Greek word. And so, Jen, what does this
(30:09):
stenographer do? A A stenographer sits in a courtroom or
an official place, and the stenographer listens to God, and he,
a stenographer, listens to the official proceedings and then interprets
it into the stenographer's typed language. And so when it
(30:30):
says that we are to be snipers for God through intercession,
what that means is we need to listen to God
and be his stenographers in order to release what he
tells us. So that Romans passage. I'm so glad you
brought that up, Janet. That Romans passage is critical in
understanding not only the difference that of prayer and intercession,
(30:53):
and that intercession is not prayer, but what exactly is intercession,
and that is us being God's stenographer.
S1 (31:00):
Yeah. And let me build on this, because I think
this is hugely important, so that there's a presupposition here
that I cannot be God's stenographer if I am not listening.
So first and foremost, I have to stay in tune
with the Lord. So it seems to me I've got
to be immersed in His word, and I have to
be in prayerful communication with him. Or how in the
world am I ever going to be his stenographer?
S6 (31:20):
You got it. Yeah, you got it, Jen. In fact,
when I go around doing conferences, I. We do an
exercise where I forbid people to pray and I say,
we're going to intercede right now. And it's the most
awkward ten minutes where people don't know what to do,
because when we're used to going to a prayer meeting,
(31:42):
you know, it's it's we're we're I guess that the,
the number of words that are used are valued. But
when you listen to God and you hear his voice
or receive these inaudible thoughts or impressions or images or
whatever in your head, then you have the ability to
(32:04):
release God's will on the face of this earth In
incredible ways. So it's absolutely correct. You're absolutely correct. We
have got to listen and and put our minds and
our hearts in neutral and say, Spirit of God, what
are you trying to tell me in this situation? What
what is your will to release.
S1 (32:24):
Yeah. Personal story. Admiral Barry Black, whom I've had the
privilege of interviewing multiple times, chaplain of the US Senate.
He told me that very often he just goes down
on his knees in his office when the door is
finally closed and it's open constantly. But when it's finally
closed and he says, the first words out of his
mouth are, I'm listening, Lord. And I thought, wow, that's
(32:44):
really important. Not talking about the Lord, not running with
all of my needs and wants and requests, but instead saying,
I'm going to be still and I'm going to listen
to what he has to say. For me now, one
of the joys is we already know some of the
things he said, because we've got the revelation of his word,
which I'm so thankful for. So let me draw this
back to nations. So Paul's teaching his young protégé Timothy,
(33:05):
and he tells us to pray for those in authority.
And then what I love about that passage is not
just the directive, particularly for those of us who live
and work in DC. We understand how important that is,
but it comes with a promise. So I don't have
to guess God's position on praying for those in authority.
The directive has already been there. Am I interceding on
(33:25):
behalf of the United States and whatever other country I'm
praying for? Because there's no geographical limitation in that tutorial
from Paul. Am I being his stenographer when I'm praying
for those in authority because God has revealed what he
wants done?
S2 (33:38):
Mhm.
S6 (33:39):
Yes, absolutely. And I'm glad you brought up the first
Timothy two passage because you're exactly, exactly right. I says,
I urge you therefore to pray and actually says pray
and intercede for those who are in authority. And just
to take this to a higher level, Janet, there is
no place in Scripture where we in the Old Testament
(34:01):
or the New Testament where we are commanded to be intercession,
to intercede, to be intercessors. Other than this passage, the
only place in the expanse of the canon and the
revealed Word of God, the only place that we are
commanded to be an intercessor is where we are to
(34:21):
be called to be an intercessor for those who are
in authority. I tell you, Janet, that that Scripture says
that intercession is first and foremost a governmental activity, that
we might have quiet and peaceful lives as a second
half of that passage says, and then tying back to
the Abrahamic covenant, that we would be a blessing to nations.
(34:44):
Intercession is different than prayer. It's not the same in
intercession is first and foremost in primarily a governmental activity.
S1 (34:55):
Yeah. Wow. And some people are thinking, wait, how can
you talk about what the Bible has to say? And
also governmental activity that falls hard on ears that have
heard far too often that somehow praying for those in authority,
praying for nation is anathema because you're getting too entrenched
in the world you alluded to. The three institutions that
God made in this order family, government, church, families made
(35:16):
in a place of perfection. And then he gives us
government and we fight for the church. So we fight
for the church. We fight for our families. We hold
our nose when it comes to government, and yet we
are to be involved. And if you don't like politics, terrific.
How about being an intercessor for your nation? I mean,
that's a whole different perspective, is it not? Mhm.
S6 (35:35):
You're exactly right. And and this is one of the
key roles that we can play. We can, we can
release God's activity on the face of this earth through
prayer and intercession. And it's it's critical. And I just
encourage everybody out there to who's listening to our voices to, uh, to,
to take these the, the radio listening skills and apply
(35:59):
that to your communication process with God. Prayer is we're
commanded to pray and list our prayer list before God,
but we're also commanded to intercede and be listening and
be God's stenographers.
S1 (36:14):
Yeah, absolutely. Wow. Oh, this book is so rich, by
the way. Again, it's called Impacting Generations How Ordinary People
can Influence the Future of Nations. I love this book.
I love it because it reminds us of the role
that you and I have the privilege of playing. It's
a very humbling privilege to be an intercessor, but we
must step into that directive to be able to do it.
But I love the section of the book where you talk, Dave,
(36:36):
about ordinary people. The story of the wall coming down
is a part of that segment of the book. Share
some more when we come back, just so people can
be encouraged, ordinary people, to do extraordinary things through the
power of intercession. Back after this. Dave is with us,
CEO and President of intercessors for America. By the way,
(36:58):
I've got a link to the website I pray a lot.
A ton of excellent information there, right there in my
information page. But his newest book is called Impacting Generations
How Ordinary People Can Influence the Future of Nations. And
I said earlier, when you shared that wonderful story about
the wall, that we need to hear more of those
stories because we begin to understand the power of prayer.
(37:19):
One of our problems, I think, right through the church,
is that we fail to recognize not only the privilege,
but the power of prayer and intercession as well. So
you tell a lot of these ordinary people's stories. Share
some of them with us, Dave, because I think if
there's anything that'll put fire in their bones, it's this
part of the book.
S6 (37:35):
Well, I'm glad you asked, because I want to tell
you a personal story. For years and years, I've watched
how the church has taken a back seat to to
government and not been leading government issues and policy the
way that they they should. And and Janet, you you
you know as well as I that the result of
(37:58):
something called the Johnson Amendment has resulted in the American
church saying, we can't we can't talk about politics in
the in the church. We're going to lose our C3.
And so what happened in 1954 through this IRS code, which, uh,
was something very different than what the perception is, is
(38:20):
in America, was something that I, I truly believe needed
to be reversed. And so I began to pray about
that and for years prayed about the opportunity to see
the Johnson Amendment reversed. And so it's a really long story.
But about a year ago, a friend of mine came
to me and said, Dave, I'm looking for people to
(38:40):
be a part of a lawsuit to sue the IRS
to reverse the Johnson Amendment. And I said, oh, I'm in.
I'm absolutely in. So last August, we we filed a
suit against the IRS stating that the Johnson Amendment is
unconstitutional and it's inconsistently applied. Now, this was before the
(39:05):
election by President Biden was still president. We had no
idea how this would work its way out. But as
it worked its way through the court system in the
federal court, it resulted in the IRS making a settlement
to us, stating that they would reverse a portion of
(39:25):
the Johnson Amendment. And they with. And we agreed to
this settlement, and we filed that settlement in federal court
last Monday. Now, Jen, you might remember that on Tuesday
of last week, all over the headlines were the IRS
now allows pastor to endorse candidates. Well, that headline is
(39:48):
partially true although the decision is not complete.
S1 (39:52):
That's right.
S6 (39:52):
But that decision was done because I, a regular guy
along with others in a great lawyer. We sued the
Internal Revenue Service and because we sued them, they settled.
They offered us a settlement. And now it appears that
we're on the eve of the Johnson Amendment being reversed.
S1 (40:15):
Yes. And we have to pray for that end, because
what we got out of DOJ was a memorandum of understanding.
And that's good, because we have a DOJ that is
friendly to the church and an administration that's friendly to
the church. Fast forward, should the Lord tarry three and
a half years, you get an unfriendly administration and an
unfriendly DOJ. And if we don't get a legal resolution
on this, this battle is going to start all over again.
(40:37):
So I view this to be a blessed time out.
But we're far from over, so prayers still need to
be applied in this area, it seems to me.
S6 (40:44):
Well, yeah. And if I could clarify. So what we
filed was a joint resolution. It was the settlement between
the IRS and us. And this will be a permanent decision.
In the resolution, the IRS stated that there they are
giving up the power to appeal this case. And so
this will permanently reverse the Johnson Amendment. All that we're
(41:08):
waiting for is for the judge in this case to
accept the settlement that both our, my, our parties and
the IRS agreed to. And so we have full confidence
that a permanent solution, this is not an EO, an
executive order signed by a president. This is not a
temporary decision, nor is this a decision that would apply
(41:30):
only in a in a in a small part of
the country. This is a permanent resolution for part of
the Johnson Amendment that would affect the nation. And we're
on the eve of that.
S1 (41:41):
Yeah. Well, we're praying for a complete and total absolution
of what that church has done or that amendment has
done for so many years. Talk to me about Ryan Walters.
How is he an ordinary person? What does it mean
to stand for Christ but lose popularity?
S6 (41:56):
You're going to have to help me. Ryan Walters.
S1 (41:59):
Widely popular, admired history teacher in the small town of McAlester, Oklahoma.
And he advanced apparently a classes in US history world
history government uh, during his career. Apparently his his students
loved him very much, but apparently he was a man
that took a stand, uh, and he was pushed back.
This was under the previous administration. Walters quickly, uh, has
(42:21):
been pushed back by the former administration under the title
nine rules. So these are Christians who say, you know,
I'm not going to bend my knee to Caesar, but
I'm going to stand fast, and I'm going to say, look, uh,
I choose God over Caesar. I'm not going to use
prong pronouns. I'm not going to tell someone a lie.
Male and female, he created them both. And there's a
chance for us to intercede for good policy for our country.
(42:43):
But how about interceding on behalf of those individuals who
are willing to take a stand to say thus far
and no farther?
S6 (42:49):
Yeah, absolutely. And go back to your the premise of
this segment that we need to have encouraging stories of
real life incidences when people stand up and when God, um,
interacts and empowers people. And, you know, Janet, you talk
to the millions and millions at intercessors for America. We
(43:10):
interact with over a million a month. And we know
that the stories that are out there of what God
is doing are so great that we've got to quit
listening to the mainstream media that tries to push us
down and say that we're a minority, we're not a minority,
and God is doing great things in this nation.
S1 (43:29):
That's exactly right. How can anyone ever be deemed a
minority when we're with God, right? If God be for us,
who can be against us? It's a fabulous book. It's
called Impacting Generations How Ordinary People Can Influence the Future
of Nations. You stop and think about it. That kind
of should take your breath away. If it doesn't, well,
then I want you to reconsider what it means to
be an intercessor. And what Dave does so beautifully in
(43:51):
his book is he walks us through what that means
to be God's stenographer. I bet we never forget that
part of this conversation. And Dave expands on that in
this book as well. So I strongly recommend it to
you in the meantime. Also, I want you to visit
the website for intercessors. They've been doing marvelous work for many, many,
many years. I pray I said that slowly. If you're
(44:11):
in the car, don't worry about it. I've got it
on the information page. Just go to In the Market
with Janet Parshall. Click on the red box. It's just
below the program summary. It says Program Information and Details.
Clicking on it'll take you over to the page that
has everything you need to know. A longer bio for Dave,
a click to his website, intercessors for America, and the
(44:32):
book on the right hand side that I think should
be required reading for today. Impacting generations. How ordinary people
that's you and me can influence the future of nations.
Pretty inspiring, is it not? Thank you Dave so much.
Thank you friends. We'll see you next time on In
the Market with Janet Parshall.
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