July 27, 2025 • 44 mins
Can homosexuality and Christianity co-exist? Joe Dallas experienced firsthand the deception of uniting "Gay" with "Gospel". He will join us to shed light on this prevalent, misleading theology that believes being actively gay and Christian are compatible. We will also discuss ‘Christian’ colleges that have walked away from biblical Truth and why some in the media spotlight so quickly abandon God’s word. Join us for an important conversation.
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S1 (00:00):
Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
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It's Ray Comfort's book. Why? Jesus? If you listen to
(00:22):
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He is bold, unashamed of the gospel. And yet in
such a winsome way, he delivers a truth narrative to
the man in the street, so to speak. He's written
the book Why Jesus? To Teach You How to Walk Through,
by examples and through real conversations he's had on how
to share the gospel in exactly the same way. Listen,
(00:43):
we're called to go and tell. It's not an opt in,
opt out clause. That's where we're supposed to go. And
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Jesus 877 Janet 58 or online at In the Market
(01:45):
with Janet Parshall. Now please enjoy the broadcast.
S2 (01:50):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:51):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (01:54):
America's worshiping government over God.
S5 (01:56):
Extremely rare safety move by 17 years.
S4 (02:00):
The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S3 (02:03):
Is not here.
S6 (02:19):
Today, people still use Scripture to keep the strange ones
away from God, to make people less, to raise themselves
above another in a way that God just can't support.
People love to trot out all kinds of scriptures to
(02:39):
clobber us over the head. Genesis one because God made
only a cisgendered man and woman. Genesis two because that
cisgendered man and woman are perfectly fitted as one flesh.
Genesis 19 Sodom and Gomorrah, which was never associated with
same gender sex until around the first century BCE. Leviticus
18 to 20, where men are told not to lay
(03:00):
with one another. Women aren't given the same warning. So
I guess there's that Deuteronomy 22, which makes sure that
drag is a no no for men and women. Romans one,
which Paul actually writes to emphasize that in Christ there
is no condemnation. First Corinthians six and first Timothy one
which are actually critical of exploitative sex rather than same sex.
(03:24):
People point to these passages today to keep LGBT, LGBTQ,
plus people out of the church just as they did
to the eunuch with Deuteronomy 23 one. But just as
then God says, no, I'm bigger than that. I'm the
same liberating and restoring God that occurs in Isaiah 56.
(03:47):
We are here today to claim our place in God's kingdom.
S1 (03:53):
So that's a street preacher, literally with a microphone talking
to whoever will stop and listen to him. But more importantly,
it is a perfect example of the so-called gay gospel.
How pro-gay advocates misread the Bible. Welcome to In the
Market with Janet Parshall. Pull out that thinking cap. Put
it on, because we're going to think critically and biblically
this hour, and we're going to spend the hour with
Joe Dallas, who's an author, a conference speaker, an ordained
(04:16):
pastoral counselor. He directs biblical counseling, a biblical counseling ministry
that's just superb in California. He's been doing this for decades,
by the way, and he's written over and over and
over again on the idea of human sexuality from a
biblical viewpoint. And in his biography on our information page,
you're going to see several of the books that he's
written that doesn't even include all of them. One of
(04:37):
them is very germane to our conversation today is this
idea of the gay gospel, which Joel wrote years ago.
It's still one of my favorite of all of his books,
because it proves exactly what you just heard. How if
you're not a good student of the word, if you
don't understand exegesis, if you don't know how to read
the Bible contextually, that all of a sudden the clobber
verses are not the one that we're pulling out against
(04:57):
people who have same sex attraction, but rather we're being
clobbered by those who have a lifestyle that the Bible
calls sin. And the idea here is to beat us
into silent submission based on our stupidity. Are you following this?
So we're going to start with an example of exactly
what's been going out there about this acquiescence that's taking place.
Someone said once that the place where we're seeing the
most disappointing compromise from Christians today is on matters of sex,
(05:19):
gender and marriage. And, you know, I tend to think
that that's true. I have always loved HGTV and I've
always loved Fixer Upper. So when Chip and Joanna Gaines
did their shows, I loved watching the old get turned
into the new and quite frankly, would try to do
some of that hocus pocus decorating magic in my own house.
But in July of 2025, they took to X to
cheerfully spread the word about their new program on the
(05:41):
Magnolia Network, entitled back to the frontier. And they said,
y'all are going to love this show. Social experiment. Plus
family time well spent. Note the words family time. Not exactly,
because the show features three families that step into this
frontier era. They have to surrender all of their modern devices,
and they have to take this idea of using the
(06:03):
tools around you from the frontier period, to change the
environment around you. Well, the show features two men in
a so-called same sex marriage, and even worse than that,
the men have adopted children via surrogacy. Now, why this
is a problem is because Chip and Joanna Gaines have
long alleged their relationship with Jesus Christ. And the minute
they posted this, they got a tsunami of response from
(06:24):
people that are saying, why are you doing this? People
are saying, have you somehow backed away from your Christian belief? Um,
Megan Basham responded by saying, as someone who was an
enormous fan and booster earlier in your careers, I wrote
multiple positive articles in a Christian magazine when few knew
who you were. It is incredibly disappointing to see you
capitulate to the spirit of the age. Megan is just
(06:44):
one of many people, by the way, who had that
kind of a response, and I think that's a good
starting point for us because, you know, as we go
deeper into these latter days and we are most assuredly
one day closer to Christ's return than we were yesterday.
The Bible tells us that several things are going to happen.
They're going to be false teachers. They're going to be
ravenous wolves. People aren't going to be able to handle
sound doctrine anymore. And the spirit of compromise that's somehow
(07:07):
being accepted by the world is far superior. Than being
obedient to the unconditional lover of our soul is a
hallmark of our age. So, Joe, the warmest of welcomes
hope you got your running shoes on, because I want
to cover a lot of territory with you. And I
have to tell you, I privately had the same response
and then sat back in the bleachers and watched with interest.
How many people responded to the idea that, look, you
(07:29):
could have picked any three couples to do this. Why
the decision? And I'm sure your executive producers, the Magnolia Network,
I'm sure, puts you in a 51% plus or more
share of the network. You could have had the final say.
Why did you decide to bring in a same sex
couple with adopted children through surrogacy?
S7 (07:46):
Well, that is the $64,000 question, isn't it, Janet? I
suspect it is exactly what you were saying, a capitulation.
And I say that not only because they did it,
but because of Chip's reaction when he was criticized for
doing it. I think he pretty much summarized his belief
(08:08):
that it was a legitimate thing to promote a same
sex couple as a married couple, and as fathers and
a family, because when he was called out on this,
he said, and I quote, talk, ask questions, listen, maybe
even learn too much to ask of modern American Christian culture.
Judge first. Understand later. Never. It's a sad Sunday when
(08:32):
non-believers have never been confronted with hate or vitriol until
they are introduced to a modern American Christian. So, you know,
he he pretty much summed up his belief That the
problem is the Christian who objects to homosexuality, and that
if you do criticize his decision to affirm it on
(08:53):
his show, which he absolutely has done, why then you're
the problem, not him.
S1 (08:59):
Yeah, exactly right. And again, all that word judge. Let's
go back to this idea. In fact, you let me
appeal to your pastoral heart if I can. Joe. You
talk about clobber passages. Judge not. I mean, that was
the pushback you got from Chip Gaines. Again. Who are
we to judge? Well, that that is a cudgel meant
to silence us from saying, wait a minute. This is
(09:20):
the way. Walk in it. Why did you decide to
take a detour? We're going to talk more with Joe
Dallas on this cultural controversy that God has spoken with
clarity on back after this. Are you intimidated when sharing
(09:46):
your faith? Many believers struggle with fear when it comes
to evangelism, and that's why I've chosen Why Jesus by
Ray comfort as this month's truth tool. Learn through Ray's
real life conversations that will show you how to overcome
fear and trust in God's faithfulness. As for your copy
of Why Jesus, when you give a gift of any
amount in the market, call 877858. That's 877858 or go
(10:07):
to in the market with Janet parshall.org. So we're taking
a look at back to the frontier. This is going
to be a new series. Uh HBO Max series. It's
called back to the future. Chip and Joanna Gaines are
the creators behind it. They took three families. They're heading
them back to the 1880s, and they're going to have
(10:27):
them figure out how to decorate and survive and experiment
socially in that particular age. Well, you would think it maybe.
Is this an oversight in the casting that they decided
to have two same sex attracted men married to each other,
and they have children that they adopted through surrogacy? No.
In fact, the two men have described their casting process,
and they recognized themselves as the, quote, perfect fit for
(10:49):
the Gaines's vision. And they applied, hoping to quote, normalize
gay couples. And that's part of the pushback. So again,
let me requote what Joe Dallas just quoted. Uh, I
think all of a sudden when the fire got turned
up and it was Chip Gaines who decided to respond
on X talk, ask questions, listen, maybe even learn too
much to ask of modern American Christian culture. Judge first,
(11:12):
understand later. So I'm going to go to the judge
first because we started our conversation talking about clobber passages.
If there was ever a clobber passage and it goes
far beyond the issue of same sex attraction, it's whenever
somebody disagrees because of biblical truth, we're, quote, judging. And
that's been an effective tool in putting a self-imposed gag
(11:33):
order on people over and over and over again. Break
this down for us, Joe. Well, judge not, lest ye
be judged. What does that really mean?
S7 (11:40):
Well, it certainly doesn't mean what so many people think
it means. They they promote that scripture as though it says,
you are never to say that somebody is wrong. Well
then one verse later. So Jesus says, if your brother
sins against you, rebuke him. Well, now wait a minute.
You're going to have to make a judgment to determine
whether or not your brother has sinned against you. So
(12:02):
very plainly Jesus was not saying, do not judge whether
or not something is right or wrong, or whether or
not someone's behavior is right or wrong. In fact, we
have a mandate to judge. Paul was very put out
with the Corinthian church because they didn't judge. So in
first Corinthians five and six he's saying, look, you guys,
(12:25):
you need to make judgments within the church that you
are not making. Don't you have anybody among you wise
enough to make those judgments? So, in fact, you can't
possibly disciple people. You can't preach sermons, you can't do
any kind of instructing without making a determination between what
is right or what is wrong. So clearly, Jesus could
(12:45):
not have been saying, you are never to take a
stand on what is right or wrong. Now I will
tell you what I cannot judge. I cannot judge the
heart of another person. I can't judge what I don't know.
And if I were to sit here saying, you know, Janet,
Chip and Joanna are really a couple of jerks. They're
just self-centered. They're no good. Okay, you know what? I
(13:07):
just judged in a way, I have no right to judge. Exactly.
I can't read their mind. I can't read their heart.
I can't even read somebody's spiritual state. Which is why
Jesus told the parable about the farmer who told his servant,
don't go trying to pull up the tares, because in
doing so, you're going to pull up some wheat as well.
You can't tell. And that's why I'm not going to
(13:29):
try to judge someone's heart. I won't judge their motives.
I won't say I can read their minds. And by
the way, I can't judge them as being morally inferior
to me either. Which Jesus made clear when he told
all the guys so anxious to stone an adulterous woman
to death, yet go for it, guys, as long as
you are without sin. Have at it. So clearly no.
(13:52):
And in fact, Jesus said that you know the man who.
The Pharisee who stands on the mountain and says, I
thank you, God, that I am not like other men.
Now he's judging and that that kind of judgment we
are forbidden. But we are not only allowed, we are
mandated to make judgments based on the clearly revealed Word
of God. When we do that, we are not doing
(14:13):
what Chip Gaines seems to insinuate we are doing, which
is somehow demeaning people holding a holier than thou position.
And as people often say, hating them because we are
simply saying that something is wrong and that is what
we're judging.
S1 (14:28):
Exactly. And if I could add one thing to what
you just said, saying something is wrong. We didn't say it.
It's what God's Word says, right. He defines marriage. And
all we're simply saying is, wait a minute. You're putting
families back to the 1880s and the choice was made,
and there's only three families that you're following in this series.
Why the decision? Well, I think the answer to that
(14:48):
question is found in the audition tape of the two
homosexuals who said they wanted to, quote, normalize the same
sex relations. So is it not appropriate to say, but
wait a minute, that is not a, quote, normal relationship,
and it stands in stark anathema to God's Word. Like
it or not, I didn't say it. God did.
S7 (15:06):
And by the way, Janet, um, that decision was made
not just by a couple of secular people. These are
people who, as you say, publicly identify themselves as Christians.
And when Christians who describe themselves as people who serve
Jesus Christ and follow the Word of God, make a
decision to normalize what God has not normalized. Yes, we
(15:29):
we do, I believe, have a mandate to call them
on it. Look, I wouldn't have liked it if anybody
had done that. Okay. But if if a secular probe. Well,
I know this back to the frontier is a secular program,
but if the people hosting it were secular, they didn't
identify as Christians. I would just think, oh, well, you know,
so what what do I expect these days? Yeah, people
normalize all kinds of things. But when people who have
(15:50):
been so open about their faith, they do attend, uh,
Antioch Church, which is, uh, by all accounts a Bible
believing church. And they know very well they have a
Bible believing Christian following when they are so openly saying, yep,
these are families and it is wrong if you criticize
(16:11):
us or them us for our affirming their homosexuality, them
for practicing homosexuality, you are the problem. See, this is
what's got so many Christians agitated is not just that
there's a TV show affirming homosexuality, but there is a
TV show affirming homosexuality hosted by two openly identified born
(16:31):
again Christians who know very well a large part of
their viewership is also openly Christian. And apart from that, Janet,
this is a severe misrepresentation of the Word of God. Now,
if a non-believer misrepresents the Word of God, I would
almost yawn and say, yeah, what's new? But when a
believer who has influence is misrepresenting the Word of God.
(16:54):
Now we have a problem.
S1 (16:55):
Yeah, absolutely. So much to talk about. Joe Dallas is
with us. By the way. I want you to know
about several resources that Joe has that I think are
absolutely superb. And so we're going to talk about a
couple of them when we get back. But this is
an important conversation. We expect the world to do what
the world is supposed to do, right? Without Jesus. They're
right in lockstep with what they're supposed to be doing.
But when you make a profession of faith in Jesus Christ,
(17:17):
and we're called ambassadors for him, and we decide to
sidestep for cultural acceptance, well, sometimes there's pushback. But more importantly,
it makes each one of us question, are we unashamed
of the gospel of Jesus Christ no matter what and
no matter what the cost. Back after this. We're talking
(17:49):
to Joe Dallas, who's a wonderful author, a conference speaker,
ordained pastoral counselor. He directs a marvelous ministry in California
as a counseling ministry for those dealing with sexual and
relational problems, as well as with their families. He is
a very prolific author. He blogs daily at Joe Dallas.com.
I've got a link to that, by the way. He's
written multiple, multiple books. Just for this conversation, I've put
(18:12):
down the gay gospel question mark how pro-gay Advocates misread
the Bible. Joe wrote that book years ago. It is
absolutely as applicable today as the day the ink dried
when he was writing the book. But I want to
tell you about some other resources that he's got. Joe,
do me a favor and start explaining to our friends,
if you would, about the challenge, because I talked to
you when this first launched, and I am so thrilled
(18:33):
to see how this has grown since it started. So
give us an update.
S7 (18:36):
Hey. Thank you Janet. Yeah, we launched the challenge, um,
about a year and a half ago. A little longer
than that as a monthly free service to pastors who
want to be better equipped to deal with LGBTQ related
issues in their own church. They want to counsel somebody
who struggles with this. They want to minister to their parents.
(18:57):
They want to know how to speak prophetically to the
culture and to the community on this, how to how to, uh,
beef up their church policies to be prepared for some
of the modern issues we have. Like if a trans
person comes in who's biologically male and wants to use
the women's room, what are we going to do? So
there are many topics like that that we talk about
on a monthly basis. Now, we started just with an
(19:17):
idea on a monthly basis. Now why we have more
than I think it's up to about 550 pastors now
who are a part of this meeting and we've got
over 13 different countries represented besides the United States. And
that speaks to the fact that the church and the
leadership within the body of Christ is very concerned about
(19:38):
how to respond to an issue. We weren't quite prepared
to respond to. And it is a it is something
they didn't teach in seminary, you know, and which is
why a lot of pastors feel like, wow, I know
what the Scripture says. I mean, I know where I stand,
but now how am I going to implement that stand
and how am I going to express it? So it's
an honor. I gotta tell you, working with these men
(19:59):
and women on a monthly basis to take each month
a different aspect of ministry that's related to this subject
and have some teaching time and then have some group
discussion time. And I'm real blessed to say that it's
bearing some good fruit.
S1 (20:14):
Well, I'm so glad to hear that, Joe. Thank you. Pastors,
I have a direct link on the information page. If
you're not a part of this, it isn't a matter
of if. It's a matter of when this issue shows
up and you need to be prepared as the shepherd,
as the keeper of the flock, to know exactly how
to respond in a compassionate, but more importantly, biblical way
to these issues as they come up. And to see
it grow, as Jill just said, really underscores the fact
(20:36):
that there is a need out there. It's not taught
in seminary. Can't get a lot of books on the
shelf about this, but boy, Joe Dallas has been there,
done that, and he can tell you all about it.
It doesn't end with pastors, however. You also have a
fabulous video series that people can get. Talk to me
about that.
S7 (20:50):
Hey. Thank you. Yes, we've got actually a couple one
for parents. Someone I love is gay because so many parents. Well,
I guess it stands to reason, right? As more and
more people are coming out of the closet, there are
parents for represented by each one of those coming out individuals.
And in so many cases, the parents are Christian who
are saying, wow, I am afraid. I'm heartbroken. I'm angry.
(21:12):
My son or daughter has just come out to me
as lesbian or gay or trans. How should I respond?
What should I say? What should I not say? What
boundaries should I establish? Is this my fault? And several
other questions I have. Well, I've tried to answer all
of those in this series. Someone I love is gay.
And then I've got another series again for pastors called pastor.
(21:32):
What about LGBTQ, which walks pastors through many of the
topics we also hit on in the challenge. So I again,
real grateful that we've been able to put together some
resources people can use to help them get better equipped
to address the issue in their own congregations, so that
this isn't such a specialized issue. You think that if
(21:53):
you are in some way affected by this, you have
to go off to some expensive resource and check your
check yourself into a clinic for a few weeks. Uh,
these resources bring it down to the local congregation level.
S1 (22:06):
Wow. Excellent. All of that can be found at Joe Dallas.com,
Joe Dallas.com. And again, Joe, thank you. You have been
talking about this issue. You have been teaching and preaching
and comforting and counseling on this issue for not years,
but decades. And yet, in the midst of all of that,
you were still listening to what was happening outside the
front door of your tent. And coming up with these
resources now at this time is more timely than ever,
(22:29):
and they're absolutely fabulous resources. So Joe Dallas.com. Joe Dallas.com.
And also, he blogs every single day and his books
are superb. So all of that can be found simply
at the website that bears his name, Joe Dallas.com. Let
me go back to Chip and Joanna Gaines, because, again,
it's not a secular program, you could say. Again, the
world is doing what exactly what the world does. But
when you make a profession of faith, and as you
(22:50):
noted before, they go to a Bible believing church, the pastor,
by the way, historically has even defended marriage as defined
in the scriptures. But when you have three couples and
you make the decision that one is going to be
same sex with adopted children through surrogacy so that you
can be a part, you're complicit. No matter how you
slice that loaf of bread, you are complicit in quoting
(23:11):
normalizing what the Bible calls sin. When you do that,
if you take a look at Romans one and you
list all of these areas of rebellion that Paul is
writing about. Doesn't that anger from the Lord come as
far as leading people purposely astray and aligning yourself with
something that's an antithetical posture with the Word of God?
S7 (23:32):
Hey, that's the reason. One of the reasons this is
so problematic. Paul told the Romans, Romans 1421, don't do
anything that is going to cause a person to stumble.
Now I'll say this to my shame, Janet, we've talked
about this quite a few times, but I was for
a number of years on staff with a pro gay church,
(23:52):
and I encouraged people to normalize this sin in their
own lives. I am afraid all these decades later, that's
exactly what two of our most prominent Christians are doing
on a regular basis now on their television show.
S1 (24:05):
Yeah, exactly. So when we come back, give me a
temperature read on the state of the modern church, because
we could tick off a bunch of names here. I'm
not going to give them five seconds worth of notoriety
who have made themselves public in a Christian arena and
have now backtracked on this position. What does that say
about the state of the church? I'll leave that question hanging,
but we'll get an answer from Joe Dallas after the break.
(24:26):
Stay with us. Christians are called to go into the
(24:50):
marketplace of ideas. Throughout history, men and women of God
have been thought leaders, innovators, and forces for good. We
want this program to continue in that bold tradition. Join
me by becoming a partial partner. Your monthly gift will
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58 or go online to in the market with Janet parshall.org.
(25:13):
Always excellent to spend time with Joe Dallas, author, conference speaker,
ordained pastoral counselor. Again, he directs a biblical counseling ministry
for those who deal with sexual and relational problems. He
is a very prolific author. He blogs daily at Joe
Dallas Online. One of the books he wrote is called
the Gay gospel How Pro-Gay. And by the way, that
(25:34):
ends with a question mark, not a period. How pro-gay
activists misread the Bible. And I think that's important, because
that really goes to the core of the question I
asked just before the break, Joe, which is, listen, the
scriptures don't change. The Bible doesn't contain the Word of God.
It is the Word of God. And God doesn't change.
He's the same yesterday, today and forever. So I don't
care if it's the first century or the 21st century.
(25:54):
His principles, his precepts, and his protections are still as
germane today as they were when they originally breathed through
the power of the Holy Spirit. So this isn't about
the Word of God changing. This is about his church changing.
And there are multiple notaries who we could say have
been very public about their faith and now have retreated.
And that really is a metric, if you will, of
(26:16):
what's going on with the modern church. Why this issue
and that that statement I read earlier that if there's
compromise anywhere in the church, it seems to be around
sex and gender. Why?
S7 (26:26):
Great question. I, I think we got something going on
in the modern church, Janet, that I call affectionate heresy.
S8 (26:35):
Mhm.
S7 (26:36):
That's it's an affectionate heresy. It's when warm feelings lead
to bad doctrine. Now, I'm not going to criticize anyone
for having warm feelings. I wish I was more patient
and affectionate and generous and warm. I could use more
of those warm feelings, but warm feelings aren't meant to
(26:56):
guide us. And I think that this is where we
are in real danger as a church. I really think
this whole thing with Chip and Joanna Gaines, it's the
symptom of the problem.
S8 (27:07):
Yes. But the larger.
S7 (27:08):
Problem is, do we, in the body of Christ, submit
ourselves to the authority of the Word of God to
do what it is supposed to do. Second Timothy 316 says,
it's not only inspired, it's profitable for for doctrine, for reproof,
for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Now, here's what I
think is happening often in the modern church. Janet, I
(27:30):
think a lot of people go to church for inspiration.
I want to get pumped. I want to I want
to be inspired to feel that God loves me. I
want a nice, general, warm sense of my value in
the sight of God. But for instruction, they're going to
other sources.
S8 (27:47):
Mm.
S7 (27:48):
So I think we've got a lot of believers who
take inspiration from parts of the Bible, but they don't
take instruction from it for that. They go to TikTok,
they go to YouTube, they go to Oprah, they go
to whatever. And I think that this is basically what
the Gaines have modeled for us is the problem. You'll
notice that when Chip responded to criticism, he didn't give
(28:08):
any biblical defense for his decision. He gave basically he
he used TikTok language in responding to it. And that's
a lot right there. I recognized the TikTok sort of
vocabulary hate judgment, you know, etc. uh, when when you're
confronted with someone who is speaking biblical truth, you use
(28:30):
the TikTok approach, which is, oh, well, you're just a hater.
And that, I think, is what's happening in the modern church.
Much of the church, in the interest of affection, is
guilty of heresy because our feelings are leading us to
believe the most important thing we can do is have
warm connections with other people. And, uh, this to me
is a rewriting of the definition of love. First Corinthians
(28:53):
13 is not about affection, it's about truth. It's about perseverance.
It's about patience. It's about steadfastness. It's about long suffering.
But it's not about cuddling. Anything wrong with cuddling? I
don't think so. I'm a great cuddler, you know. But
that's not the definition of love. Love may include cuddling,
but cuddling does not constitute love. When we love, the
(29:16):
highest thing we want for the person we love is
for them to be walking in the truth. And there's
no other way to say this that I can think of.
If Chip and Joanna truly love this gay couple and
their children, they will not encourage them to continue in
something that is keeping them outside of the truth of God.
Love won't do that.
S8 (29:37):
Mm.
S1 (29:37):
Wow. Boy, you're spot on. I could not agree with
your assessment more. So then it raises an interesting question
for those of us who've confess with our mouth that
Jesus is Lord and believed in our heart that God
has raised him from the dead. Our name is now
written in the Lamb's Book of Life, and there is
no eraser strong enough for big enough to ever wipe
out our name. We are adopted and our name is
there forevermore. We have been given the cure for death.
(30:00):
When we breathe our last, we will step from this
life into eternity. And that's when real life begins. This
is not as good as it gets. So it raises
an interesting question. It's the existential question in this. What's
the attraction? Why moving away from what you know, to
be the brilliance of absolute truth and hope and mercy
and love to a position of being a betrayer. What's
(30:22):
the elixir?
S7 (30:24):
I think it is a very old elixir, Janet, as
you said what you just said. I was thinking of
what Paul said. It's one of the saddest statements toward
the end of his life. Just that one sentence. Demas
hath forsaken me. Having loved the things of this present
world more than the things of Christ. Well, I guess
(30:46):
that elixir has been around for a long time. Demas
had been a faithful follower. Something happened somewhere along the
line where the things of the world took precedence over
the Kingdom of God. My opinion, the things of the
world are showing themselves to have taken precedent, at least
in what the gains are gains of professing and doing. Again,
(31:06):
I don't know them. And like you, I. You know,
my wife told me about their show and I thought, well,
it's one of those things, you know. Watch what your
wife wants to watch. So you do it. Well, I
loved it, I loved it. I thought, wow, this is amazing.
These people are brilliant. They're funny. I like them both.
But what's not to like? They're funny, they're engaging. But, uh.
(31:26):
Good grief. I think that in in their words and
their actions, they are showing more regard for the kingdom
of this earth than for the kingdom of God. And
I think that's the old elixir that Paul talked about
way back in Second Timothy.
S8 (31:40):
Yeah.
S1 (31:40):
So nothing new under the sun. So how do you
and I and this is a tutorial. This is and
I agree. And thank you so much for the way
you positioned it, that the situation with the gains on
back to the frontier is symptomatic. It's not the disease,
it's simply revelatory of the disease. The bigger question is
how do we eradicate the disease? So what is the antidote?
Obviously don't drink the elixir, but there's more than that.
(32:01):
How do we not get taken captive by vain and
hollow philosophies that have nothing to do with the Word
of God.
S7 (32:08):
I think we recommit ourselves, ourselves to prioritizing the Word
of God in our daily life, in our worship life,
that we get back to a regard for it that says,
you know, we ourselves need to let ourselves be conformed
to what this book is teaching because this is God's Word,
(32:29):
written and inspired by God. And then we encourage that
kind of an attitude in each other. I think sometimes
I think, Janet, one of the biggest favors we can
do each other is say, you know what? You're not crazy. Yeah. Yeah.
You're hearing a lot of voices saying that you are.
But let's remember the word. We provoke each other, and
I think we need to do more provocation in the church,
(32:50):
provoking each other unto love and good works. I think
that that I think we need to have more of
a common understanding that we can't be the people we're
meant to be. We can't be real disciples if we
are not continuing to learn from the word and recognize
the authority of the word in our lives and be
encouraging each other, uh, towards godliness and good works. I
(33:11):
think at the local level, we have to not only
practice that with each other, but I think we need
to call it out when we're seeing it violated. I
don't I don't want to get into all this business
of forever confronting people, you know?
S8 (33:23):
Right. Right, right.
S7 (33:24):
In fact, when our leaders and or to me visibility
is leadership, Janice. So the gains aren't passed as I
know that. But but visibility means influence. Influence means responsibility.
So I don't think they get a pass on that.
I think we need to be public because it does
two things at the same time. It gives a prophetic
witness to the world that you know what, this is
an error that is serious enough. We need to call
(33:46):
it out the way Paul called out Peter when he
committed a serious error and encouraged other people to do
the same. Now, this is the same thing happening here.
I think that's a responsibility we have, but it also
encourages us to to remember, yes, what we see in
Scripture is true, and we are not, as Elijah mistakenly thought, alone. No,
everybody hasn't bowed the knee to Baal. One of the
(34:08):
encouraging things to me was the fact that there was
so much pushback on this because it reminded me, okay,
there are still plenty of voices in the body of
Christ who have the highest respect for the Word of
God and want to live in fidelity to that. So
I think we need to keep cultivating within the church
that respect for the Word of God as our authority,
(34:29):
as our guide, as our instruction. We test everything against that,
and then we speak to the culture prophetically for those
who will hear. And we speak to people who are
in error by letting them know. We are aware that
you have strayed from what Scripture says, and you know this.
I don't know how else to put it. Janet, the
body of Christ is not a fan base.
S8 (34:50):
You know, we're the body of Christ.
S7 (34:53):
Chip and Joanna are members of our body. We are
members of their body. We are all members of the
body of Christ. We have a responsibility to each other
and we are accountable to each other. I think we
need to act like it.
S8 (35:04):
Yeah.
S1 (35:04):
Let me go back to a phrase that you used
that I'm going to take the liberty to use on
a regular basis, because I think it's so succinct, affectionate, heresy.
This recognizes a shift in critical thinking skills, where we've
moved from knowing the truth and speaking it always with grace,
but seasoned with truth to the idea that feelings trump truth.
(35:26):
You don't. That is totally biblically unjustifiable. Truth supersedes, in fact,
the most loving thing Jesus ever does is tell the truth.
Sexual activity. Woman at the well. Right. She's got five husbands.
She's not married to anybody. And he says, don't do
it again. And she is liberated and says, let me
tell you about the one who's told me everything I've
ever done. Same with the woman who was about to
(35:47):
be stoned to death. He didn't leave them, that he
didn't say, oh, boy, my heart really breaks. He he
shows compassion. Woman. Where are your accusers? I know not, Lord.
Neither do I accuse you of. Go and sin no more.
But he doesn't stop by cutting out the truth. When
you cut the truth out. To go to your brilliant phrase, Joe.
That's when the affection remains. But the heresy enters in
(36:08):
when the truth gets cut out. Affectionate truth is what
we're aiming for. Affectionate heresy is what we're seeing. We'll
give you another example of this when we get back.
Joe dallas.com. Joe Dallas.com. A ton of resources on our
information page. The gay gospel question mark. That's an important
book because it teaches us how to recognize the twisting
of Scripture by gay activists. More with Joe Dallas right
(36:31):
after this. Joe Dallas is with us, and we're talking
about the church compromising. And sometimes it's not just the church,
(36:52):
sometimes it's Christian colleges. So the historically Baptist institution of
Baylor University got into hot water. They got a grant
for $643,401. Why? Well, it was intended. This is a
historically Baptist school in Waco, Texas, to study LGBTQ plus
inclusion in churches. Big backlash. Long story short, they turned
(37:16):
around because publicity, when you're trying to raise alumni dollars
and get donations to a school, doesn't work real well.
When you decide that you're going to go public with
your inclusionary LGBTQ plus study. And long story short, they
end up returning the grant. Now, I got to tell you,
that still left a stain, didn't it, Joe? Talk to
me about this. What in the world was going on?
(37:36):
Why would they have taken this money in the first place?
What does it tell you about their curriculum, etc.?
S7 (37:41):
Uh, I think it says a bit about the love
of money being the root of all kinds of evil.
Because I'm with you. Um, I wasn't impressed when they
returned that grant after they had initially accepted it. Because
the grant's wording was very plain. Through academic research, this
grant will help us better understand the disenfranchisement and exclusion
(38:02):
of LGBTQ+ individuals and women within congregations. So this was
clearly to help the school, um, revise its position on
human sexuality and encourage its students to do the same.
There was no surprise in that. Now they got a
lot of pushback. But in their case, I'm I'm going
to make an educated guess that a lot of Baylor's
(38:22):
major funders looked at that and said, we're out. And
so all of a sudden, they had an epiphany. Oh, gee,
what they said was basically, um, uh, it ended, uh,
the work extended of the grant into advocacy for perspectives
on human sexuality and consistent with our institutional policies, what
they knew that from the beginning. So I think, again,
(38:45):
I hate to be so cynical, but what else can
you be when you look at this and you think, okay, um,
you are swayed by a couple of things at the
same time. A very generous grant 643,000. That's not small change.
But also, I believe there is a growing desire within
Christian institutions to get the approval of the world. I
(39:06):
think there's a growing desire to feel as though we
are so enlightened. And you see, we are not haters
and we're wonderful people, and we like you and we
want you to like us. Therefore, we're going to show
that we have a desire to make sure none of
our policies are either too exclusionary or and, Janet, this
is a big problem. Or we may have policies that
(39:26):
clearly condemn homosexuality, but we're not going to take them
very seriously. And to my thinking, that is exactly why
Baylor ever even considered taking the grant. Baylor knew what
its policies were. Baylor knew what the grant entailed, and
they basically initially said, well, our policies are intact, but
(39:47):
they're not that important. And when we start treating the
definition of marriage and family like it is such a
secondary issue, that to violate it is no big deal.
Like when I violate the 65 mile an hour speed limit,
which I sometimes do. Sorry, but I do. Well, when
we treat it as though it's in that category, we
are basically saying that the doctrine of marriage, family and
(40:10):
the connection that is literally viewed in Scripture as a
type of Christ in his church is a secondary issue.
And when we are saying that in one of our
most well known historically Christian universities, the modern church is
in trouble. Chip Gaines was right about that, but he
was wrong about what the trouble really is.
S8 (40:26):
Yeah, yeah.
S1 (40:27):
Couldn't agree more. You believe that there are three gay
affirming trends that are happening in the church? Most people
don't even recognize them. Talk to me about that.
S7 (40:37):
Yeah, there are three. Uh, Janet, revision reduction and Re-identification
revision is just that, the revisionist theology which I wrote
about in the gay gospel. I used to preach that myself.
In fact, I got to tell you, when I was
listening to that recording of the guy preaching at the
beginning of the show, I thought, well, he stole my
sermon outlines from 1981. I was I was mouthing it
(40:58):
all along with him. I said, I recognize this stuff.
I used to preach that myself. That's the move to
revise what the Word of God has to say. And
many churches are falling for it for the exact reason
we mentioned earlier. It's affectionate heresy. Let's rewrite the word
so people feel welcome. Reduction is what I believe the
Gaines and Baylor have done. The Gaines have not come
out and said we're pro-gay. Baylor hasn't quite said we're pro-gay.
(41:20):
What they've done is reduced the importance of the issue
so that they leave room open for this kind of
ongoing debate and controversy. And basically they refuse to take
a stand as clearly as they should. Then there's re-identification
that's a movement by which people say, well, I've repented
of homosexual sin, but I'm still gay. I identify myself
that way. I'm part of the gay Christian community now,
(41:42):
and I think all three of these errors are chipping
away at the church's commitment to sound doctrine. And all
three of them, I think, are indicators that at our core,
we are either again, guilty of what I call affectionate heresy.
We're trying too hard to be nice, and we're allowing
the desire to be liked, to override our commitment to truth.
(42:04):
Or there is corruption at a deeper level. And you
and I can say, as I think our listeners can
with tears. There is a lot of sexual corruption in
the modern church. A lot of things are being done
in the dark that are getting exposed every week, it seems,
among our leaders especially, but among believers, you know. And
I think when there is corruption at that level, we
(42:24):
become kind of like Eli looking at his sons with
a sense of helplessness, like, well, they're going to do
what they're going to do. I don't know, I guess
I can't stop them. We better just allow it. All
of those, I think, though, are symptoms of a serious
decay in the church. And if there's going to be
any hope of us being vibrant and effective on these
kinds of issues, there's going to have to be a
(42:45):
reformers kind of an attitude that says, okay, let's clean
up our act, let's repent of our own compromise. Let's
call out compromise when it exists in our ranks. Let's
promote the gospel first. People need to be born again,
and let's promote what God's standards are for the benefit
of humanity.
S8 (43:01):
Mm. Wow.
S1 (43:02):
So well said. Those last three hours, Joe, we could
do an entire hour on that. I'm so thankful that
we visit on a regular basis. Just talk to me
real quickly about the Re-identification, because this one I think
is most egregious. We read in the scriptures that we've
been crucified with Christ and we no longer live, but
Christ lives in us. Acts 17 says, we live and
move and have our being in Jesus Christ. Why is
(43:25):
the re-identification not making sure we are aligned by being
identified in in him, rather than whatever the multiplicity of
offerings are in the marketplace of ideas?
S7 (43:35):
Well, I think any time we are basically limiting the
power of God by identifying ourselves by a worldly label,
we are basically saying the power of God is not sufficient.
S8 (43:45):
Yeah.
S1 (43:45):
Wow. Well said Joe. Thank you so much. Let me
get my friends again to the website in the market
with Janet Parshall under the our summation. And we do
this for two hours every day. You're going to see
a red box. It says program details and audio. You
click that on it takes you over to the information page.
You're going to learn more because there's a longer bio
there for Joe Dallas underneath the bio. Joe Dallas.com that's
(44:06):
your one. Stop shopping for everything you need to know
about Joe Dallas. The courses that we talked about, pastor,
the challenge that's available through that and the books that
he's written, and one of them, and that's on the
right hand side of our information page, the Gay Gospel
How Pro Gay Advocates Misread the Bible A timely, timely read.
Thank you, Joe, for once again and you never disappoint.
Teaching us how to think critically and most of all,
(44:28):
biblically on a very controversial issue. Thank you for that.
Thank you friends. Hope you've been edified. We'll see you
next time on In the Market with Janet Parshall.
Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
and I truly hope you hear something that encourages edifies, equips, enlightens,
and gently but consistently pushes you out there into the
marketplace of ideas. But before you start to listen and
before you go to the marketplace, let me just tell
you about this month's truth tool. And it is a
perfect fit for both the marketplace and getting out there.
It's Ray Comfort's book. Why? Jesus? If you listen to
(00:22):
the broadcast with any regularity, you know we love Ray.
He is bold, unashamed of the gospel. And yet in
such a winsome way, he delivers a truth narrative to
the man in the street, so to speak. He's written
the book Why Jesus? To Teach You How to Walk Through,
by examples and through real conversations he's had on how
to share the gospel in exactly the same way. Listen,
(00:43):
we're called to go and tell. It's not an opt in,
opt out clause. That's where we're supposed to go. And
in truth, how can we keep this good news to ourselves?
So I want you to have Why Jesus as this
month's truth tool. So you'll get some fire in your
bones about going out and sharing the good news of
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(01:03):
going financially, just call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet
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(01:25):
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But in addition to that, they get a weekly newsletter
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Whether you'll be a partial partner or just a one
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Jesus 877 Janet 58 or online at In the Market
(01:45):
with Janet Parshall. Now please enjoy the broadcast.
S2 (01:50):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:51):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (01:54):
America's worshiping government over God.
S5 (01:56):
Extremely rare safety move by 17 years.
S4 (02:00):
The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S3 (02:03):
Is not here.
S6 (02:19):
Today, people still use Scripture to keep the strange ones
away from God, to make people less, to raise themselves
above another in a way that God just can't support.
People love to trot out all kinds of scriptures to
(02:39):
clobber us over the head. Genesis one because God made
only a cisgendered man and woman. Genesis two because that
cisgendered man and woman are perfectly fitted as one flesh.
Genesis 19 Sodom and Gomorrah, which was never associated with
same gender sex until around the first century BCE. Leviticus
18 to 20, where men are told not to lay
(03:00):
with one another. Women aren't given the same warning. So
I guess there's that Deuteronomy 22, which makes sure that
drag is a no no for men and women. Romans one,
which Paul actually writes to emphasize that in Christ there
is no condemnation. First Corinthians six and first Timothy one
which are actually critical of exploitative sex rather than same sex.
(03:24):
People point to these passages today to keep LGBT, LGBTQ,
plus people out of the church just as they did
to the eunuch with Deuteronomy 23 one. But just as
then God says, no, I'm bigger than that. I'm the
same liberating and restoring God that occurs in Isaiah 56.
(03:47):
We are here today to claim our place in God's kingdom.
S1 (03:53):
So that's a street preacher, literally with a microphone talking
to whoever will stop and listen to him. But more importantly,
it is a perfect example of the so-called gay gospel.
How pro-gay advocates misread the Bible. Welcome to In the
Market with Janet Parshall. Pull out that thinking cap. Put
it on, because we're going to think critically and biblically
this hour, and we're going to spend the hour with
Joe Dallas, who's an author, a conference speaker, an ordained
(04:16):
pastoral counselor. He directs biblical counseling, a biblical counseling ministry
that's just superb in California. He's been doing this for decades,
by the way, and he's written over and over and
over again on the idea of human sexuality from a
biblical viewpoint. And in his biography on our information page,
you're going to see several of the books that he's
written that doesn't even include all of them. One of
(04:37):
them is very germane to our conversation today is this
idea of the gay gospel, which Joel wrote years ago.
It's still one of my favorite of all of his books,
because it proves exactly what you just heard. How if
you're not a good student of the word, if you
don't understand exegesis, if you don't know how to read
the Bible contextually, that all of a sudden the clobber
verses are not the one that we're pulling out against
(04:57):
people who have same sex attraction, but rather we're being
clobbered by those who have a lifestyle that the Bible
calls sin. And the idea here is to beat us
into silent submission based on our stupidity. Are you following this?
So we're going to start with an example of exactly
what's been going out there about this acquiescence that's taking place.
Someone said once that the place where we're seeing the
most disappointing compromise from Christians today is on matters of sex,
(05:19):
gender and marriage. And, you know, I tend to think
that that's true. I have always loved HGTV and I've
always loved Fixer Upper. So when Chip and Joanna Gaines
did their shows, I loved watching the old get turned
into the new and quite frankly, would try to do
some of that hocus pocus decorating magic in my own house.
But in July of 2025, they took to X to
cheerfully spread the word about their new program on the
(05:41):
Magnolia Network, entitled back to the frontier. And they said,
y'all are going to love this show. Social experiment. Plus
family time well spent. Note the words family time. Not exactly,
because the show features three families that step into this
frontier era. They have to surrender all of their modern devices,
and they have to take this idea of using the
(06:03):
tools around you from the frontier period, to change the
environment around you. Well, the show features two men in
a so-called same sex marriage, and even worse than that,
the men have adopted children via surrogacy. Now, why this
is a problem is because Chip and Joanna Gaines have
long alleged their relationship with Jesus Christ. And the minute
they posted this, they got a tsunami of response from
(06:24):
people that are saying, why are you doing this? People
are saying, have you somehow backed away from your Christian belief? Um,
Megan Basham responded by saying, as someone who was an
enormous fan and booster earlier in your careers, I wrote
multiple positive articles in a Christian magazine when few knew
who you were. It is incredibly disappointing to see you
capitulate to the spirit of the age. Megan is just
(06:44):
one of many people, by the way, who had that
kind of a response, and I think that's a good
starting point for us because, you know, as we go
deeper into these latter days and we are most assuredly
one day closer to Christ's return than we were yesterday.
The Bible tells us that several things are going to happen.
They're going to be false teachers. They're going to be
ravenous wolves. People aren't going to be able to handle
sound doctrine anymore. And the spirit of compromise that's somehow
(07:07):
being accepted by the world is far superior. Than being
obedient to the unconditional lover of our soul is a
hallmark of our age. So, Joe, the warmest of welcomes
hope you got your running shoes on, because I want
to cover a lot of territory with you. And I
have to tell you, I privately had the same response
and then sat back in the bleachers and watched with interest.
How many people responded to the idea that, look, you
(07:29):
could have picked any three couples to do this. Why
the decision? And I'm sure your executive producers, the Magnolia Network,
I'm sure, puts you in a 51% plus or more
share of the network. You could have had the final say.
Why did you decide to bring in a same sex
couple with adopted children through surrogacy?
S7 (07:46):
Well, that is the $64,000 question, isn't it, Janet? I
suspect it is exactly what you were saying, a capitulation.
And I say that not only because they did it,
but because of Chip's reaction when he was criticized for
doing it. I think he pretty much summarized his belief
(08:08):
that it was a legitimate thing to promote a same
sex couple as a married couple, and as fathers and
a family, because when he was called out on this,
he said, and I quote, talk, ask questions, listen, maybe
even learn too much to ask of modern American Christian culture.
Judge first. Understand later. Never. It's a sad Sunday when
(08:32):
non-believers have never been confronted with hate or vitriol until
they are introduced to a modern American Christian. So, you know,
he he pretty much summed up his belief That the
problem is the Christian who objects to homosexuality, and that
if you do criticize his decision to affirm it on
(08:53):
his show, which he absolutely has done, why then you're
the problem, not him.
S1 (08:59):
Yeah, exactly right. And again, all that word judge. Let's
go back to this idea. In fact, you let me
appeal to your pastoral heart if I can. Joe. You
talk about clobber passages. Judge not. I mean, that was
the pushback you got from Chip Gaines. Again. Who are
we to judge? Well, that that is a cudgel meant
to silence us from saying, wait a minute. This is
(09:20):
the way. Walk in it. Why did you decide to
take a detour? We're going to talk more with Joe
Dallas on this cultural controversy that God has spoken with
clarity on back after this. Are you intimidated when sharing
(09:46):
your faith? Many believers struggle with fear when it comes
to evangelism, and that's why I've chosen Why Jesus by
Ray comfort as this month's truth tool. Learn through Ray's
real life conversations that will show you how to overcome
fear and trust in God's faithfulness. As for your copy
of Why Jesus, when you give a gift of any
amount in the market, call 877858. That's 877858 or go
(10:07):
to in the market with Janet parshall.org. So we're taking
a look at back to the frontier. This is going
to be a new series. Uh HBO Max series. It's
called back to the future. Chip and Joanna Gaines are
the creators behind it. They took three families. They're heading
them back to the 1880s, and they're going to have
(10:27):
them figure out how to decorate and survive and experiment
socially in that particular age. Well, you would think it maybe.
Is this an oversight in the casting that they decided
to have two same sex attracted men married to each other,
and they have children that they adopted through surrogacy? No.
In fact, the two men have described their casting process,
and they recognized themselves as the, quote, perfect fit for
(10:49):
the Gaines's vision. And they applied, hoping to quote, normalize
gay couples. And that's part of the pushback. So again,
let me requote what Joe Dallas just quoted. Uh, I
think all of a sudden when the fire got turned
up and it was Chip Gaines who decided to respond
on X talk, ask questions, listen, maybe even learn too
much to ask of modern American Christian culture. Judge first,
(11:12):
understand later. So I'm going to go to the judge
first because we started our conversation talking about clobber passages.
If there was ever a clobber passage and it goes
far beyond the issue of same sex attraction, it's whenever
somebody disagrees because of biblical truth, we're, quote, judging. And
that's been an effective tool in putting a self-imposed gag
(11:33):
order on people over and over and over again. Break
this down for us, Joe. Well, judge not, lest ye
be judged. What does that really mean?
S7 (11:40):
Well, it certainly doesn't mean what so many people think
it means. They they promote that scripture as though it says,
you are never to say that somebody is wrong. Well
then one verse later. So Jesus says, if your brother
sins against you, rebuke him. Well, now wait a minute.
You're going to have to make a judgment to determine
whether or not your brother has sinned against you. So
(12:02):
very plainly Jesus was not saying, do not judge whether
or not something is right or wrong, or whether or
not someone's behavior is right or wrong. In fact, we
have a mandate to judge. Paul was very put out
with the Corinthian church because they didn't judge. So in
first Corinthians five and six he's saying, look, you guys,
(12:25):
you need to make judgments within the church that you
are not making. Don't you have anybody among you wise
enough to make those judgments? So, in fact, you can't
possibly disciple people. You can't preach sermons, you can't do
any kind of instructing without making a determination between what
is right or what is wrong. So clearly, Jesus could
(12:45):
not have been saying, you are never to take a
stand on what is right or wrong. Now I will
tell you what I cannot judge. I cannot judge the
heart of another person. I can't judge what I don't know.
And if I were to sit here saying, you know, Janet,
Chip and Joanna are really a couple of jerks. They're
just self-centered. They're no good. Okay, you know what? I
(13:07):
just judged in a way, I have no right to judge. Exactly.
I can't read their mind. I can't read their heart.
I can't even read somebody's spiritual state. Which is why
Jesus told the parable about the farmer who told his servant,
don't go trying to pull up the tares, because in
doing so, you're going to pull up some wheat as well.
You can't tell. And that's why I'm not going to
(13:29):
try to judge someone's heart. I won't judge their motives.
I won't say I can read their minds. And by
the way, I can't judge them as being morally inferior
to me either. Which Jesus made clear when he told
all the guys so anxious to stone an adulterous woman
to death, yet go for it, guys, as long as
you are without sin. Have at it. So clearly no.
(13:52):
And in fact, Jesus said that you know the man who.
The Pharisee who stands on the mountain and says, I
thank you, God, that I am not like other men.
Now he's judging and that that kind of judgment we
are forbidden. But we are not only allowed, we are
mandated to make judgments based on the clearly revealed Word
of God. When we do that, we are not doing
(14:13):
what Chip Gaines seems to insinuate we are doing, which
is somehow demeaning people holding a holier than thou position.
And as people often say, hating them because we are
simply saying that something is wrong and that is what
we're judging.
S1 (14:28):
Exactly. And if I could add one thing to what
you just said, saying something is wrong. We didn't say it.
It's what God's Word says, right. He defines marriage. And
all we're simply saying is, wait a minute. You're putting
families back to the 1880s and the choice was made,
and there's only three families that you're following in this series.
Why the decision? Well, I think the answer to that
(14:48):
question is found in the audition tape of the two
homosexuals who said they wanted to, quote, normalize the same
sex relations. So is it not appropriate to say, but
wait a minute, that is not a, quote, normal relationship,
and it stands in stark anathema to God's Word. Like
it or not, I didn't say it. God did.
S7 (15:06):
And by the way, Janet, um, that decision was made
not just by a couple of secular people. These are
people who, as you say, publicly identify themselves as Christians.
And when Christians who describe themselves as people who serve
Jesus Christ and follow the Word of God, make a
decision to normalize what God has not normalized. Yes, we
(15:29):
we do, I believe, have a mandate to call them
on it. Look, I wouldn't have liked it if anybody
had done that. Okay. But if if a secular probe. Well,
I know this back to the frontier is a secular program,
but if the people hosting it were secular, they didn't
identify as Christians. I would just think, oh, well, you know,
so what what do I expect these days? Yeah, people
normalize all kinds of things. But when people who have
(15:50):
been so open about their faith, they do attend, uh,
Antioch Church, which is, uh, by all accounts a Bible
believing church. And they know very well they have a
Bible believing Christian following when they are so openly saying, yep,
these are families and it is wrong if you criticize
(16:11):
us or them us for our affirming their homosexuality, them
for practicing homosexuality, you are the problem. See, this is
what's got so many Christians agitated is not just that
there's a TV show affirming homosexuality, but there is a
TV show affirming homosexuality hosted by two openly identified born
(16:31):
again Christians who know very well a large part of
their viewership is also openly Christian. And apart from that, Janet,
this is a severe misrepresentation of the Word of God. Now,
if a non-believer misrepresents the Word of God, I would
almost yawn and say, yeah, what's new? But when a
believer who has influence is misrepresenting the Word of God.
(16:54):
Now we have a problem.
S1 (16:55):
Yeah, absolutely. So much to talk about. Joe Dallas is
with us. By the way. I want you to know
about several resources that Joe has that I think are
absolutely superb. And so we're going to talk about a
couple of them when we get back. But this is
an important conversation. We expect the world to do what
the world is supposed to do, right? Without Jesus. They're
right in lockstep with what they're supposed to be doing.
But when you make a profession of faith in Jesus Christ,
(17:17):
and we're called ambassadors for him, and we decide to
sidestep for cultural acceptance, well, sometimes there's pushback. But more importantly,
it makes each one of us question, are we unashamed
of the gospel of Jesus Christ no matter what and
no matter what the cost. Back after this. We're talking
(17:49):
to Joe Dallas, who's a wonderful author, a conference speaker,
ordained pastoral counselor. He directs a marvelous ministry in California
as a counseling ministry for those dealing with sexual and
relational problems, as well as with their families. He is
a very prolific author. He blogs daily at Joe Dallas.com.
I've got a link to that, by the way. He's
written multiple, multiple books. Just for this conversation, I've put
(18:12):
down the gay gospel question mark how pro-gay Advocates misread
the Bible. Joe wrote that book years ago. It is
absolutely as applicable today as the day the ink dried
when he was writing the book. But I want to
tell you about some other resources that he's got. Joe,
do me a favor and start explaining to our friends,
if you would, about the challenge, because I talked to
you when this first launched, and I am so thrilled
(18:33):
to see how this has grown since it started. So
give us an update.
S7 (18:36):
Hey. Thank you Janet. Yeah, we launched the challenge, um,
about a year and a half ago. A little longer
than that as a monthly free service to pastors who
want to be better equipped to deal with LGBTQ related
issues in their own church. They want to counsel somebody
who struggles with this. They want to minister to their parents.
(18:57):
They want to know how to speak prophetically to the
culture and to the community on this, how to how to, uh,
beef up their church policies to be prepared for some
of the modern issues we have. Like if a trans
person comes in who's biologically male and wants to use
the women's room, what are we going to do? So
there are many topics like that that we talk about
on a monthly basis. Now, we started just with an
(19:17):
idea on a monthly basis. Now why we have more
than I think it's up to about 550 pastors now
who are a part of this meeting and we've got
over 13 different countries represented besides the United States. And
that speaks to the fact that the church and the
leadership within the body of Christ is very concerned about
(19:38):
how to respond to an issue. We weren't quite prepared
to respond to. And it is a it is something
they didn't teach in seminary, you know, and which is
why a lot of pastors feel like, wow, I know
what the Scripture says. I mean, I know where I stand,
but now how am I going to implement that stand
and how am I going to express it? So it's
an honor. I gotta tell you, working with these men
(19:59):
and women on a monthly basis to take each month
a different aspect of ministry that's related to this subject
and have some teaching time and then have some group
discussion time. And I'm real blessed to say that it's
bearing some good fruit.
S1 (20:14):
Well, I'm so glad to hear that, Joe. Thank you. Pastors,
I have a direct link on the information page. If
you're not a part of this, it isn't a matter
of if. It's a matter of when this issue shows
up and you need to be prepared as the shepherd,
as the keeper of the flock, to know exactly how
to respond in a compassionate, but more importantly, biblical way
to these issues as they come up. And to see
it grow, as Jill just said, really underscores the fact
(20:36):
that there is a need out there. It's not taught
in seminary. Can't get a lot of books on the
shelf about this, but boy, Joe Dallas has been there,
done that, and he can tell you all about it.
It doesn't end with pastors, however. You also have a
fabulous video series that people can get. Talk to me
about that.
S7 (20:50):
Hey. Thank you. Yes, we've got actually a couple one
for parents. Someone I love is gay because so many parents. Well,
I guess it stands to reason, right? As more and
more people are coming out of the closet, there are
parents for represented by each one of those coming out individuals.
And in so many cases, the parents are Christian who
are saying, wow, I am afraid. I'm heartbroken. I'm angry.
(21:12):
My son or daughter has just come out to me
as lesbian or gay or trans. How should I respond?
What should I say? What should I not say? What
boundaries should I establish? Is this my fault? And several
other questions I have. Well, I've tried to answer all
of those in this series. Someone I love is gay.
And then I've got another series again for pastors called pastor.
(21:32):
What about LGBTQ, which walks pastors through many of the
topics we also hit on in the challenge. So I again,
real grateful that we've been able to put together some
resources people can use to help them get better equipped
to address the issue in their own congregations, so that
this isn't such a specialized issue. You think that if
(21:53):
you are in some way affected by this, you have
to go off to some expensive resource and check your
check yourself into a clinic for a few weeks. Uh,
these resources bring it down to the local congregation level.
S1 (22:06):
Wow. Excellent. All of that can be found at Joe Dallas.com,
Joe Dallas.com. And again, Joe, thank you. You have been
talking about this issue. You have been teaching and preaching
and comforting and counseling on this issue for not years,
but decades. And yet, in the midst of all of that,
you were still listening to what was happening outside the
front door of your tent. And coming up with these
resources now at this time is more timely than ever,
(22:29):
and they're absolutely fabulous resources. So Joe Dallas.com. Joe Dallas.com.
And also, he blogs every single day and his books
are superb. So all of that can be found simply
at the website that bears his name, Joe Dallas.com. Let
me go back to Chip and Joanna Gaines, because, again,
it's not a secular program, you could say. Again, the
world is doing what exactly what the world does. But
when you make a profession of faith, and as you
(22:50):
noted before, they go to a Bible believing church, the pastor,
by the way, historically has even defended marriage as defined
in the scriptures. But when you have three couples and
you make the decision that one is going to be
same sex with adopted children through surrogacy so that you
can be a part, you're complicit. No matter how you
slice that loaf of bread, you are complicit in quoting
(23:11):
normalizing what the Bible calls sin. When you do that,
if you take a look at Romans one and you
list all of these areas of rebellion that Paul is
writing about. Doesn't that anger from the Lord come as
far as leading people purposely astray and aligning yourself with
something that's an antithetical posture with the Word of God?
S7 (23:32):
Hey, that's the reason. One of the reasons this is
so problematic. Paul told the Romans, Romans 1421, don't do
anything that is going to cause a person to stumble.
Now I'll say this to my shame, Janet, we've talked
about this quite a few times, but I was for
a number of years on staff with a pro gay church,
(23:52):
and I encouraged people to normalize this sin in their
own lives. I am afraid all these decades later, that's
exactly what two of our most prominent Christians are doing
on a regular basis now on their television show.
S1 (24:05):
Yeah, exactly. So when we come back, give me a
temperature read on the state of the modern church, because
we could tick off a bunch of names here. I'm
not going to give them five seconds worth of notoriety
who have made themselves public in a Christian arena and
have now backtracked on this position. What does that say
about the state of the church? I'll leave that question hanging,
but we'll get an answer from Joe Dallas after the break.
(24:26):
Stay with us. Christians are called to go into the
(24:50):
marketplace of ideas. Throughout history, men and women of God
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58 or go online to in the market with Janet parshall.org.
(25:13):
Always excellent to spend time with Joe Dallas, author, conference speaker,
ordained pastoral counselor. Again, he directs a biblical counseling ministry
for those who deal with sexual and relational problems. He
is a very prolific author. He blogs daily at Joe
Dallas Online. One of the books he wrote is called
the Gay gospel How Pro-Gay. And by the way, that
(25:34):
ends with a question mark, not a period. How pro-gay
activists misread the Bible. And I think that's important, because
that really goes to the core of the question I
asked just before the break, Joe, which is, listen, the
scriptures don't change. The Bible doesn't contain the Word of God.
It is the Word of God. And God doesn't change.
He's the same yesterday, today and forever. So I don't
care if it's the first century or the 21st century.
(25:54):
His principles, his precepts, and his protections are still as
germane today as they were when they originally breathed through
the power of the Holy Spirit. So this isn't about
the Word of God changing. This is about his church changing.
And there are multiple notaries who we could say have
been very public about their faith and now have retreated.
And that really is a metric, if you will, of
(26:16):
what's going on with the modern church. Why this issue
and that that statement I read earlier that if there's
compromise anywhere in the church, it seems to be around
sex and gender. Why?
S7 (26:26):
Great question. I, I think we got something going on
in the modern church, Janet, that I call affectionate heresy.
S8 (26:35):
Mhm.
S7 (26:36):
That's it's an affectionate heresy. It's when warm feelings lead
to bad doctrine. Now, I'm not going to criticize anyone
for having warm feelings. I wish I was more patient
and affectionate and generous and warm. I could use more
of those warm feelings, but warm feelings aren't meant to
(26:56):
guide us. And I think that this is where we
are in real danger as a church. I really think
this whole thing with Chip and Joanna Gaines, it's the
symptom of the problem.
S8 (27:07):
Yes. But the larger.
S7 (27:08):
Problem is, do we, in the body of Christ, submit
ourselves to the authority of the Word of God to
do what it is supposed to do. Second Timothy 316 says,
it's not only inspired, it's profitable for for doctrine, for reproof,
for correction, for instruction in righteousness. Now, here's what I
think is happening often in the modern church. Janet, I
(27:30):
think a lot of people go to church for inspiration.
I want to get pumped. I want to I want
to be inspired to feel that God loves me. I
want a nice, general, warm sense of my value in
the sight of God. But for instruction, they're going to
other sources.
S8 (27:47):
Mm.
S7 (27:48):
So I think we've got a lot of believers who
take inspiration from parts of the Bible, but they don't
take instruction from it for that. They go to TikTok,
they go to YouTube, they go to Oprah, they go
to whatever. And I think that this is basically what
the Gaines have modeled for us is the problem. You'll
notice that when Chip responded to criticism, he didn't give
(28:08):
any biblical defense for his decision. He gave basically he
he used TikTok language in responding to it. And that's
a lot right there. I recognized the TikTok sort of
vocabulary hate judgment, you know, etc. uh, when when you're
confronted with someone who is speaking biblical truth, you use
(28:30):
the TikTok approach, which is, oh, well, you're just a hater.
And that, I think, is what's happening in the modern church.
Much of the church, in the interest of affection, is
guilty of heresy because our feelings are leading us to
believe the most important thing we can do is have
warm connections with other people. And, uh, this to me
is a rewriting of the definition of love. First Corinthians
(28:53):
13 is not about affection, it's about truth. It's about perseverance.
It's about patience. It's about steadfastness. It's about long suffering.
But it's not about cuddling. Anything wrong with cuddling? I
don't think so. I'm a great cuddler, you know. But
that's not the definition of love. Love may include cuddling,
but cuddling does not constitute love. When we love, the
(29:16):
highest thing we want for the person we love is
for them to be walking in the truth. And there's
no other way to say this that I can think of.
If Chip and Joanna truly love this gay couple and
their children, they will not encourage them to continue in
something that is keeping them outside of the truth of God.
Love won't do that.
S8 (29:37):
Mm.
S1 (29:37):
Wow. Boy, you're spot on. I could not agree with
your assessment more. So then it raises an interesting question
for those of us who've confess with our mouth that
Jesus is Lord and believed in our heart that God
has raised him from the dead. Our name is now
written in the Lamb's Book of Life, and there is
no eraser strong enough for big enough to ever wipe
out our name. We are adopted and our name is
there forevermore. We have been given the cure for death.
(30:00):
When we breathe our last, we will step from this
life into eternity. And that's when real life begins. This
is not as good as it gets. So it raises
an interesting question. It's the existential question in this. What's
the attraction? Why moving away from what you know, to
be the brilliance of absolute truth and hope and mercy
and love to a position of being a betrayer. What's
(30:22):
the elixir?
S7 (30:24):
I think it is a very old elixir, Janet, as
you said what you just said. I was thinking of
what Paul said. It's one of the saddest statements toward
the end of his life. Just that one sentence. Demas
hath forsaken me. Having loved the things of this present
world more than the things of Christ. Well, I guess
(30:46):
that elixir has been around for a long time. Demas
had been a faithful follower. Something happened somewhere along the
line where the things of the world took precedence over
the Kingdom of God. My opinion, the things of the
world are showing themselves to have taken precedent, at least
in what the gains are gains of professing and doing. Again,
(31:06):
I don't know them. And like you, I. You know,
my wife told me about their show and I thought, well,
it's one of those things, you know. Watch what your
wife wants to watch. So you do it. Well, I
loved it, I loved it. I thought, wow, this is amazing.
These people are brilliant. They're funny. I like them both.
But what's not to like? They're funny, they're engaging. But, uh.
(31:26):
Good grief. I think that in in their words and
their actions, they are showing more regard for the kingdom
of this earth than for the kingdom of God. And
I think that's the old elixir that Paul talked about
way back in Second Timothy.
S8 (31:40):
Yeah.
S1 (31:40):
So nothing new under the sun. So how do you
and I and this is a tutorial. This is and
I agree. And thank you so much for the way
you positioned it, that the situation with the gains on
back to the frontier is symptomatic. It's not the disease,
it's simply revelatory of the disease. The bigger question is
how do we eradicate the disease? So what is the antidote?
Obviously don't drink the elixir, but there's more than that.
(32:01):
How do we not get taken captive by vain and
hollow philosophies that have nothing to do with the Word
of God.
S7 (32:08):
I think we recommit ourselves, ourselves to prioritizing the Word
of God in our daily life, in our worship life,
that we get back to a regard for it that says,
you know, we ourselves need to let ourselves be conformed
to what this book is teaching because this is God's Word,
(32:29):
written and inspired by God. And then we encourage that
kind of an attitude in each other. I think sometimes
I think, Janet, one of the biggest favors we can
do each other is say, you know what? You're not crazy. Yeah. Yeah.
You're hearing a lot of voices saying that you are.
But let's remember the word. We provoke each other, and
I think we need to do more provocation in the church,
(32:50):
provoking each other unto love and good works. I think
that that I think we need to have more of
a common understanding that we can't be the people we're
meant to be. We can't be real disciples if we
are not continuing to learn from the word and recognize
the authority of the word in our lives and be
encouraging each other, uh, towards godliness and good works. I
(33:11):
think at the local level, we have to not only
practice that with each other, but I think we need
to call it out when we're seeing it violated. I
don't I don't want to get into all this business
of forever confronting people, you know?
S8 (33:23):
Right. Right, right.
S7 (33:24):
In fact, when our leaders and or to me visibility
is leadership, Janice. So the gains aren't passed as I
know that. But but visibility means influence. Influence means responsibility.
So I don't think they get a pass on that.
I think we need to be public because it does
two things at the same time. It gives a prophetic
witness to the world that you know what, this is
an error that is serious enough. We need to call
(33:46):
it out the way Paul called out Peter when he
committed a serious error and encouraged other people to do
the same. Now, this is the same thing happening here.
I think that's a responsibility we have, but it also
encourages us to to remember, yes, what we see in
Scripture is true, and we are not, as Elijah mistakenly thought, alone. No,
everybody hasn't bowed the knee to Baal. One of the
(34:08):
encouraging things to me was the fact that there was
so much pushback on this because it reminded me, okay,
there are still plenty of voices in the body of
Christ who have the highest respect for the Word of
God and want to live in fidelity to that. So
I think we need to keep cultivating within the church
that respect for the Word of God as our authority,
(34:29):
as our guide, as our instruction. We test everything against that,
and then we speak to the culture prophetically for those
who will hear. And we speak to people who are
in error by letting them know. We are aware that
you have strayed from what Scripture says, and you know this.
I don't know how else to put it. Janet, the
body of Christ is not a fan base.
S8 (34:50):
You know, we're the body of Christ.
S7 (34:53):
Chip and Joanna are members of our body. We are
members of their body. We are all members of the
body of Christ. We have a responsibility to each other
and we are accountable to each other. I think we
need to act like it.
S8 (35:04):
Yeah.
S1 (35:04):
Let me go back to a phrase that you used
that I'm going to take the liberty to use on
a regular basis, because I think it's so succinct, affectionate, heresy.
This recognizes a shift in critical thinking skills, where we've
moved from knowing the truth and speaking it always with grace,
but seasoned with truth to the idea that feelings trump truth.
(35:26):
You don't. That is totally biblically unjustifiable. Truth supersedes, in fact,
the most loving thing Jesus ever does is tell the truth.
Sexual activity. Woman at the well. Right. She's got five husbands.
She's not married to anybody. And he says, don't do
it again. And she is liberated and says, let me
tell you about the one who's told me everything I've
ever done. Same with the woman who was about to
(35:47):
be stoned to death. He didn't leave them, that he
didn't say, oh, boy, my heart really breaks. He he
shows compassion. Woman. Where are your accusers? I know not, Lord.
Neither do I accuse you of. Go and sin no more.
But he doesn't stop by cutting out the truth. When
you cut the truth out. To go to your brilliant phrase, Joe.
That's when the affection remains. But the heresy enters in
(36:08):
when the truth gets cut out. Affectionate truth is what
we're aiming for. Affectionate heresy is what we're seeing. We'll
give you another example of this when we get back.
Joe dallas.com. Joe Dallas.com. A ton of resources on our
information page. The gay gospel question mark. That's an important
book because it teaches us how to recognize the twisting
of Scripture by gay activists. More with Joe Dallas right
(36:31):
after this. Joe Dallas is with us, and we're talking
about the church compromising. And sometimes it's not just the church,
(36:52):
sometimes it's Christian colleges. So the historically Baptist institution of
Baylor University got into hot water. They got a grant
for $643,401. Why? Well, it was intended. This is a
historically Baptist school in Waco, Texas, to study LGBTQ plus
inclusion in churches. Big backlash. Long story short, they turned
(37:16):
around because publicity, when you're trying to raise alumni dollars
and get donations to a school, doesn't work real well.
When you decide that you're going to go public with
your inclusionary LGBTQ plus study. And long story short, they
end up returning the grant. Now, I got to tell you,
that still left a stain, didn't it, Joe? Talk to
me about this. What in the world was going on?
(37:36):
Why would they have taken this money in the first place?
What does it tell you about their curriculum, etc.?
S7 (37:41):
Uh, I think it says a bit about the love
of money being the root of all kinds of evil.
Because I'm with you. Um, I wasn't impressed when they
returned that grant after they had initially accepted it. Because
the grant's wording was very plain. Through academic research, this
grant will help us better understand the disenfranchisement and exclusion
(38:02):
of LGBTQ+ individuals and women within congregations. So this was
clearly to help the school, um, revise its position on
human sexuality and encourage its students to do the same.
There was no surprise in that. Now they got a
lot of pushback. But in their case, I'm I'm going
to make an educated guess that a lot of Baylor's
(38:22):
major funders looked at that and said, we're out. And
so all of a sudden, they had an epiphany. Oh, gee,
what they said was basically, um, uh, it ended, uh,
the work extended of the grant into advocacy for perspectives
on human sexuality and consistent with our institutional policies, what
they knew that from the beginning. So I think, again,
(38:45):
I hate to be so cynical, but what else can
you be when you look at this and you think, okay, um,
you are swayed by a couple of things at the
same time. A very generous grant 643,000. That's not small change.
But also, I believe there is a growing desire within
Christian institutions to get the approval of the world. I
(39:06):
think there's a growing desire to feel as though we
are so enlightened. And you see, we are not haters
and we're wonderful people, and we like you and we
want you to like us. Therefore, we're going to show
that we have a desire to make sure none of
our policies are either too exclusionary or and, Janet, this
is a big problem. Or we may have policies that
(39:26):
clearly condemn homosexuality, but we're not going to take them
very seriously. And to my thinking, that is exactly why
Baylor ever even considered taking the grant. Baylor knew what
its policies were. Baylor knew what the grant entailed, and
they basically initially said, well, our policies are intact, but
(39:47):
they're not that important. And when we start treating the
definition of marriage and family like it is such a
secondary issue, that to violate it is no big deal.
Like when I violate the 65 mile an hour speed limit,
which I sometimes do. Sorry, but I do. Well, when
we treat it as though it's in that category, we
are basically saying that the doctrine of marriage, family and
(40:10):
the connection that is literally viewed in Scripture as a
type of Christ in his church is a secondary issue.
And when we are saying that in one of our
most well known historically Christian universities, the modern church is
in trouble. Chip Gaines was right about that, but he
was wrong about what the trouble really is.
S8 (40:26):
Yeah, yeah.
S1 (40:27):
Couldn't agree more. You believe that there are three gay
affirming trends that are happening in the church? Most people
don't even recognize them. Talk to me about that.
S7 (40:37):
Yeah, there are three. Uh, Janet, revision reduction and Re-identification
revision is just that, the revisionist theology which I wrote
about in the gay gospel. I used to preach that myself.
In fact, I got to tell you, when I was
listening to that recording of the guy preaching at the
beginning of the show, I thought, well, he stole my
sermon outlines from 1981. I was I was mouthing it
(40:58):
all along with him. I said, I recognize this stuff.
I used to preach that myself. That's the move to
revise what the Word of God has to say. And
many churches are falling for it for the exact reason
we mentioned earlier. It's affectionate heresy. Let's rewrite the word
so people feel welcome. Reduction is what I believe the
Gaines and Baylor have done. The Gaines have not come
out and said we're pro-gay. Baylor hasn't quite said we're pro-gay.
(41:20):
What they've done is reduced the importance of the issue
so that they leave room open for this kind of
ongoing debate and controversy. And basically they refuse to take
a stand as clearly as they should. Then there's re-identification
that's a movement by which people say, well, I've repented
of homosexual sin, but I'm still gay. I identify myself
that way. I'm part of the gay Christian community now,
(41:42):
and I think all three of these errors are chipping
away at the church's commitment to sound doctrine. And all
three of them, I think, are indicators that at our core,
we are either again, guilty of what I call affectionate heresy.
We're trying too hard to be nice, and we're allowing
the desire to be liked, to override our commitment to truth.
(42:04):
Or there is corruption at a deeper level. And you
and I can say, as I think our listeners can
with tears. There is a lot of sexual corruption in
the modern church. A lot of things are being done
in the dark that are getting exposed every week, it seems,
among our leaders especially, but among believers, you know. And
I think when there is corruption at that level, we
(42:24):
become kind of like Eli looking at his sons with
a sense of helplessness, like, well, they're going to do
what they're going to do. I don't know, I guess
I can't stop them. We better just allow it. All
of those, I think, though, are symptoms of a serious
decay in the church. And if there's going to be
any hope of us being vibrant and effective on these
kinds of issues, there's going to have to be a
(42:45):
reformers kind of an attitude that says, okay, let's clean
up our act, let's repent of our own compromise. Let's
call out compromise when it exists in our ranks. Let's
promote the gospel first. People need to be born again,
and let's promote what God's standards are for the benefit
of humanity.
S8 (43:01):
Mm. Wow.
S1 (43:02):
So well said. Those last three hours, Joe, we could
do an entire hour on that. I'm so thankful that
we visit on a regular basis. Just talk to me
real quickly about the Re-identification, because this one I think
is most egregious. We read in the scriptures that we've
been crucified with Christ and we no longer live, but
Christ lives in us. Acts 17 says, we live and
move and have our being in Jesus Christ. Why is
(43:25):
the re-identification not making sure we are aligned by being
identified in in him, rather than whatever the multiplicity of
offerings are in the marketplace of ideas?
S7 (43:35):
Well, I think any time we are basically limiting the
power of God by identifying ourselves by a worldly label,
we are basically saying the power of God is not sufficient.
S8 (43:45):
Yeah.
S1 (43:45):
Wow. Well said Joe. Thank you so much. Let me
get my friends again to the website in the market
with Janet Parshall under the our summation. And we do
this for two hours every day. You're going to see
a red box. It says program details and audio. You
click that on it takes you over to the information page.
You're going to learn more because there's a longer bio
there for Joe Dallas underneath the bio. Joe Dallas.com that's
(44:06):
your one. Stop shopping for everything you need to know
about Joe Dallas. The courses that we talked about, pastor,
the challenge that's available through that and the books that
he's written, and one of them, and that's on the
right hand side of our information page, the Gay Gospel
How Pro Gay Advocates Misread the Bible A timely, timely read.
Thank you, Joe, for once again and you never disappoint.
Teaching us how to think critically and most of all,
(44:28):
biblically on a very controversial issue. Thank you for that.
Thank you friends. Hope you've been edified. We'll see you
next time on In the Market with Janet Parshall.
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