October 6, 2025 • 45 mins
We start by taking a look at some of the headlines of the day before talking with Justin Kron, one of the creators and producers of a powerful new video detailing the horrific events in Israel on October 7th, 2023. Join us to hear what really happened. We round out the hour visiting with Dr. Fuz Rana on the ethical challenges to consider as China develops a robot that will serve as the artificial womb for pre-born children. Learn to think critically and biblically as we take a look at the world around us.
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S1 (00:00):
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(00:22):
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(02:10):
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S2 (02:20):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (02:21):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (02:24):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S3 (02:26):
Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years.
S5 (02:30):
The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S3 (02:32):
This is not over. Hi friends.
S1 (02:48):
Welcome to in the market with Janet partial. A very
happy Monday to you. Hope you had a wonderful weekend.
We are on the eve of the two year anniversary
of this horrific, catastrophic massacre that took place in Israel
October 7th, 2023. And that's where we're going to start
our conversation today. We want to take a look at
a couple of news stories that tells you how the
world is responding. And oh, by the way, the clock
(03:10):
is ticking. Don't forget that 20 point peace plan that
was on the table. Benjamin Netanyahu, President Donald Trump standing
side by side, offering it to Hamas. The deadline was
6:00 last night for the return of all of the hostages,
dead or alive. Still waiting, still waiting, still waiting. Here's
more of an update of what's going on from my
(03:31):
friend Chris Mitchell with CBN news.
S6 (03:33):
Secretary of State Marco Rubio told Fox News Sunday he's
hopeful the hostages may be coming home.
S7 (03:40):
I think that we are the closest we have been
in a very long time to having no hostages held
by Hamas, either living or deceased. The second part of this,
and it's going to be much tougher. Part of it
is what happens after that. Who's going to run Gaza
moving forward? It can't be Hamas. It can't be a
terrorist organization.
S6 (03:56):
President Trump sounded positive on truth, social and impatient. He
wrote I am told that the first phase should be
completed this week and I am asking everyone to move fast.
I will continue to monitor the centuries old conflict. Time
is of the essence or massive bloodshed will follow something
(04:17):
that nobody wants to see. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
says it's now up to Hamas.
S8 (04:25):
Well, we accepted the deal, as did all the world.
It was President Trump's plan. Hamas says that it accepted
the deal. Now the onus is on Hamas. This plan
consists of two parts. The first part is releasing all
the hostages. Israel makes a tactical withdrawal, stays in Gaza.
And then the second part is meant to demilitarize Gaza
(04:49):
and disarm Hamas. That will be negotiated.
S6 (04:53):
Hamas says it may need time to collect the 48 hostages,
only 20 of whom are still believed to be alive.
Other hurdles include Hamas reportedly demanding Israel release prisoners they
refused in the past, including Marwan Barghouti, convicted of multiple
murders during the Second Intifada. The terror group also wants
(05:13):
a role for the Palestinian Authority in ruling Gaza. Another
condition Israel has rejected. President Trump told CNN that if
Hamas tries to cling to power, it faces complete obliteration.
Retired IDF general Amir Avivi tells CBN news he believes
the tables turned against Hamas during the last meeting at
(05:36):
the white House.
S9 (05:37):
This is exactly what happened in Washington, a realization globally
that it's game over. Hamas lost. Even if we don't
see yet Hamas laying down their weapons already lost. The
IDF is controlling 80% of Gaza completely. 900,000 people left
the city, and the city is surrounded. The is is done.
S6 (05:57):
Chris Mitchell CBN news Jerusalem.
S1 (06:00):
And yet again if you look at the 20 point plan.
Point number four within 72 hours of Israel publicly accepting
this agreement, all hostages alive and deceased will be returned.
That's 72 hours has come and gone. Terrorists don't give
up power very readily or very easily. So be praying
for the peace of Jerusalem. In the meantime, as we
come up on the anniversary of this horrific massacre that
(06:24):
took place in Israel, bigger proportionately, if you look at
size of population than our nine over 11 here in
the United States, you had hundreds of thousands of people
marching on the European continent supporting Hamas. Here's more from
a French news outlet.
S10 (06:41):
Expressing support for Palestinians.
S11 (06:44):
In Palestine.
S10 (06:48):
An estimated quarter of a million people in Amsterdam called
for an end to the Israel-Gaza war. They want the
Dutch government to recognise a Palestinian state and impose sanctions
on Israel.
S12 (07:02):
There are a lot of things that the Dutch government
could do. One of the things is to stop supplying
weapons to Israel. It stopped buying weapons from Israel. We
are also the biggest trading partner of Israel, so there
are a lot of things to do there and clear sanctions.
Now we have only two ministers on the sanctions list.
It should be way more. All the political and military
responsible should be sanctioned.
S10 (07:23):
There were also demonstrations in Turkey. The largest was in Istanbul.
Protesters expressed solidarity with Palestinians and with the intercepted global
flotilla that had aimed to deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza.
Dozens of flotillas activists detained by Israel arrived in Turkey
on Saturday after being deported. At the rally, children wrote
(07:45):
post-it notes to the children of Gaza.
S13 (07:49):
For a certain time, the Palestinian issue appeared to be
a problem linked to religious beliefs, but now it has
become entirely a crime against humanity and has caused a
huge reaction among people worldwide. I want them to stand
by our brothers and sisters. That is why I am here.
S10 (08:09):
Sunday's demonstrations included this one in Bulgaria. There were similar
mass protests in Europe on Saturday, with Israel's military campaign
in Gaza against Hamas about to enter its third year.
S1 (08:21):
And that's the spin from France. Remember, France and Saudi
Arabia co-hosted the UN conference on the establishment of Palestine
at the United Nations. So I expect there to be
a little bias. But glean from that report what you will.
I rejected quite a bit of it other than some
basic facts. For example, the report talked about what the
what happened in the Netherlands. Craig and I have been there,
(08:42):
by the way, this was where the pilgrims took flight, right?
They left England, they went to the Netherlands and then
came to the United States of America. So it was
supposed to be a haven of religious tolerance, and it
was supposed to be a place where people would find sanctuary.
That's the whole story behind Corrie ten boom, whose family
hid Jews in their home. Right? So 250,000 people gathered
(09:05):
in in the Netherlands, in Amsterdam over the weekend, the
same city where Anne Frank was hiding in an attic
where Corrie Ten boom and her family were hiding Jews
in their home. 250,000 people were chanting free, free Palestine! Now,
you also heard one person in that French report talk
about the fact that it wasn't just a question of religious,
(09:26):
it was a violation of human rights. I'd like to
find that person and have them sit down and watch
October 7th, bearing witness to a massacre. If you want
to talk about human rights violations, then you need to
see this new documentary. Craig and I watched it over
the weekend where it was nothing but demonic activity, civilians
(09:47):
sought out by terrorists for the mere fact that they
were Jews and the acts that they committed made the
Holocaust unequal in their behavior. Absolutely stunning. When we come back,
we're going to talk to one of the creators and
producers of this must see documentary. And in full disclosure,
I will tell you it is not for the faint
of heart. But then again, evil usually isn't back after this.
(10:24):
Lamentations tells us that the steadfast love of the Lord
never ceases, but sometimes it just doesn't feel like that.
That's why I've chosen the steadfast love of the Lord
as this month's truth tool. Doctor Sam Storms will teach
you that what the Bible says about God's love is true.
Ask for your copy of The Steadfast Love of the Lord.
When you give a gift of any amount to in
the market, call 87758. That's 877858 or go to in
(10:47):
the market with Janet Parshall.
S14 (10:55):
October 7th, the nation woke up to a nightmare.
S15 (11:22):
Of course.
S16 (11:23):
Exactly what Israel had promised Israelis would never happen to them.
Happened to them.
S1 (11:49):
That is a trailer for one of the most powerful
documentaries I've ever seen. Craig and I watched it over
the weekend. It's called October 7th, bearing witness to the massacre.
It is not for the faint of heart. But then again,
evil never looks pretty. But it is imperative to stop
the propaganda being meted out against Israelis in the Jewish
people and what happened on that day. And as we
(12:10):
come up to the two year anniversary, it's even hard
to articulate the demonic ness of what's going to be
happening tomorrow. There are multiple, quote, pro-Palestinian from the river
to the sea free, free Palestine rallies taking place all
across America. The antidote to that is information, and you
need to understand exactly what happened, what kind of a
human being goes in with a GoPro camera strapped to
(12:31):
their chest so they can take pictures of innocent people
being massacred simply because they're Jews? Well, when the credits rolled,
I noticed at the end that there was one man
there by the name of Justin Krohn. I started putting
two and two together, and I thought, I wonder if
there's a linkage between Justin Krohn and Judy Krohn, who's
the former producer for this program and now works for
doctor Mark Jobe in bold steps. And I'm glad I pursued,
(12:55):
because Judy pointed me the way that Justin, who's on
the road right now promoting this film, he's the founding
director of the Kesher project, and he knows a little
something about this conflict. By the way, shout out to
the home team. He got his Masters of Divinity at
the Moody Theological Seminary, and he speaks frequently about the
Jewish foundations of the Christian faith, the history of Christian anti-Semitism,
(13:17):
the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In a word, Justin is the perfect
person to be talking to. As we come up on
the anniversary of this horrific event. Justin, I'm telling you,
I just it was absolutely a stunning film. And I
think if you were ever going to see evil portrayed,
this was it. You just could not comprehend that mankind
could stop and mete out that kind of activity against
(13:40):
their fellow man. But Jeremiah tells us the heart is
deceitful and it is wicked. And boy does that come
through loud and clear. Thank you for the documentary. Tell
me how you came up with the idea and how
in the world did you get all this footage?
S17 (13:53):
Yeah. Thank you so much, Janet, for having me on.
And I really do appreciate, uh, that you watch credits. Uh, um, and, uh,
I'm glad we can talk about this. What I consider
an incredibly important film, um, that I think people really
do need to to see. I know it might be hard, uh,
(14:15):
to do so. I'm sure it wasn't easy for you
and Craig to to sit through it. Um, but it's necessary.
It's important that people face the reality of what occurred
on October 7th. So many people, I think, don't really,
truly know what occurred. And, uh, this film, uh, it
(14:36):
portrays it. It shows it. Uh, and so the content
that we acquired, uh, some of it was available through
regular social media channels. But a lot of people don't
know that there are channels on telegram that are completely
devoted to Hamas, and they stream a lot of their
(14:58):
stuff on these channels. In fact, that's what many of
them did that day of October 7th. And so that's
where we acquired a lot of the content of the
massacre that that occurred. And we do are very careful
to do our best to honor the victims, to blur
things out when they need to be, uh, and to
cut things so that we don't linger too long on
(15:21):
some of the just horrific, uh, um, um, brutality that
that occurred. I mean, it's really hard to put into
words that human beings could do this to someone else. Um, and, uh, sadly, very,
very sadly, they did. And it resulted in the, the
worst tragedy for the Jewish people since the Holocaust. Mhm. And, um,
(15:45):
you know, they're still going through this, you know, the
the nation of Israel and Jewish people worldwide who have
their hearts connected to what happened there. They're still going
through this trauma. Um, there's still, uh, 48 hostages that
remain in captivity, 20 that are presumed alive. I mean,
you can imagine what this must be like for the
(16:06):
family members. Um, and so, uh, we think it's incredibly
important that people reengage, uh, if maybe they've been disconnected
a bit from, uh, what? What happened? And maybe their
focus has been on the war over the last two
years and forgetting what started the war. And, uh, I
think it's important that we mourn with those who mourn,
(16:29):
that we weep with those who weep, and we stand
with them in solidarity. Uh, in in one of the darkest, uh,
seasons for the nation of Israel.
S1 (16:40):
Let me tell you a couple of things that I
think you did superbly. First of all, to the and
I do not want to discourage people from watching this.
What Justin and his team have done is they've been
very judicious. In fact, at some point when the unbearable
is taking place, it's a blackout. You can hear the dialogue,
but you don't have to see it. I was invited
by the Israeli embassy here in DC to see the
uncut raw footage. I chose not to because you cannot
(17:02):
see what you've seen. And I thought, I don't need
to see that. Those are images that I'll carry with
me the rest of my life. To your credit and
your team's credit, you put enough in there for us
to begin to understand the horrific nature. But there is oh,
so much more where that came from. But you need
to understand that this was barbaric. Every word you can
think of subscribed to the nature of evil is in this.
(17:23):
But the other thing, Justin, that I thought was significant
and there are two points. Number one, and I want
to pick up on this when we come back, you
drew the line of the border around Gaza and where
it abuts against the nation of Israel. For people who
think that this was singularly an assault on the Nova
music Festival, they're sorely mistaken. This was an unbelievably well-orchestrated, plea,
(17:44):
preplanned attack. And it was in it was across the
entire boundary between Gaza and Israel, by land, by air,
a dressing up as IDF officers, dressing up as police officers.
This was an unmitigated, unparalleled terrorist attack. Justin Kron is
the creator and one of the producers. The film is
(18:04):
called October 7th, bearing witness to the massacre. It is
an imperative viewing. Check it out. I got a link
on my website back after this. What an honor to
(18:25):
talk to Justin Kron. He's the founding director of the
Kesher project. He is also co-creator and producer of the
profoundly important documentary called October 7th. Bearing witness to the massacre.
Craig and I watch it on Prime Video. It is
a must see and for a multiplicity of reasons. And
let me go to one of the two in particular
I want to point out. So I put this out
(18:46):
just before the break. Justin, which is you do so
many things that are historically important for us to understand
about the conflict that's going on. One is the idea
that this was just an assault on a music festival
with a bunch of kids is erroneous. That was one
of a multiplicity of sites. It really does beg the question,
and I and I hate to say this because I
have such unbridled respect for the IDF and their intelligence capabilities,
(19:08):
but this was an abject failure. So how in the
world were they able to come in by air, by sea,
dress up as cops, dress up as IDF officers, and
there be no Intel that this was coming?
S17 (19:19):
Well, there was certainly some Intel that that some things
were brewing, but they didn't know exactly what. And I
think it was just a complete failure of imagination that
Hamas had the capability of executing, uh, such an operation. Uh,
similar to for us here in the United States, uh,
(19:41):
prior to nine over 11. I don't think anyone ever
imagined that there could be people who fly planes into
the World Trade Towers. And so, you know, I think
it's important to understand that, you know, Israelis are human,
just like everyone else. And so there were catastrophic mistakes
that were made. Uh, and there have been people who
have been held accountable for that. Thankfully, though, I mean,
(20:03):
there were, uh, many, uh, civilians, uh, Israelis as well as, uh,
Israeli police, IDF, um, who did respond, uh, unfortunately, uh,
you know, later than sooner. Uh, but they did, uh,
save many lives. As a result, I mean, there were
several terrorists, uh, a few hundred, I believe, terrorists, uh,
(20:27):
who were killed that day by the IDF. So, um. Yeah,
it's it's hard to to think that the, uh, IDF
couldn't have gotten there sooner, but, uh, that's just the
reality of how it played out.
S1 (20:39):
You made me think of something. I remember talking to
Condi Rice, and she said the same thing. Who would
have thought that an airplane would have been turned into
a missile. I mean, it's a failure of imagination is
an apt phrase. The other thing, too, is two points
on what you just said. One is that there were
people who literally ran into the terrorist activity. People who
lived in the north of Israel, who came down to
do whatever they could to help. And in many cases
(21:00):
they were far too late, but they were running toward
the danger, not away from it. The other thing, too,
was there were Gazans who worked in some of the
kibbutzim in that area, and they went back and shared
with Hamas particulars because they knew specific people, whether they
had a dog, what house they lived in. And so
they had specificity when they went in to do their
particular attack. So, again, very, very well prepared. Here's the
(21:21):
other thing you did that I think makes this documentary
so necessary to watch. You do a superb job of
creating the history pre October 7th. You know when we
talked about the failure of intelligence. You're absolutely right. Something
was fomenting for months from January until October there was
unrest in Israel, a kind of a a back and
forth even within the Israeli population. And that rendered perhaps
(21:44):
some vulnerability where Hamas thought, this is our moment, this
is where we're going to strike. And so they could
have been planning while these different factions were going back
and forth in the streets of Israel. And I think
you make a great point of pointing that out. The
other thing, too, is you talked about the rehab that
people are still going through, how you deal with trauma,
a group of surfers, which is a wonderful way if
you survive this, if you were a hostage and you
(22:06):
saw the things that you saw, the unspeakable things that
you saw, how do you recover from that? People two
years later are still struggling. Talk to me about that.
S17 (22:14):
Yeah. So it was really important for us that we
talked to survivors and we connected with an organization that
uses surfing to to help victims of traumatic events to
heal and recover. Uh, and it's really remarkable, some of
that work, and I think a lot of it for
them is just being in community with other people who
(22:36):
went through similar experiences. Uh, so that shared experience is, uh,
helped many of them to heal. And, you know, you
bring out that we cover the history leading up to
the events of October 7th, which I think is so
important for people to learn. And it's one of the
reasons why we made the film is because right after
(22:58):
October 7th, uh, we started hearing all of this misinformation
and rewriting of history about Gaza. I mean, many people
were saying, well, it was just, uh, it was just
resistance because of 75 years of brutal occupation. What else
would people do if they were being oppressed for that long? Well,
(23:18):
they seem to have forgotten, which we bring out in
the film that in 2005, Israel, completely disengaged from Gaza,
removed all of its citizens. The IDF was removed. And
what happened right after that? Well, you had Hamas literally
within 24 hours of Israel disengaging in August of 2005,
(23:40):
started firing rockets into Israel. Over the next few months.
You had Israeli civilians who were killed, traumatized, terrorized. In 2006,
you had Hamas that was voted into power. And then
Hamas seized complete control of Gaza from the other Palestinian party, Fatah,
(24:00):
and they turned it for the next 20 years. They
essentially turned Gaza into a military fortress for just an
event like this one. And that's the history. That's what
people need to know, that sadly, too many people don't know.
S1 (24:19):
Well, this is why I want to encourage people to
see the documentary, Justin, because we need to know the
best antidote for this propaganda are the facts. Just the information.
You had a special showing over the weekend. How did
it go? Tell me about it.
S17 (24:31):
Uh, people who are seen it have been very, very moved. Uh,
there have been many within the Jewish community who are
watching it, who are thanking us for it, and we're
grateful for the opportunity. As followers of Jesus, to be
able to serve the Jewish community in that way. And
to be able to come together.
S1 (24:51):
Amen.
S17 (24:52):
To help.
S18 (24:52):
People learn.
S1 (24:54):
Justin, I said it was on Prime Video. Anywhere else,
people can see it.
S17 (24:58):
Apple TV, Google Play, YouTube movies, and a couple of others.
They could just go to our website. October 7th.
S1 (25:07):
Excellent. We'll make sure that's up on our website. I
hope this is not our last conversation. Justin, I want
to learn more about the Kesher project. Thank you so
much for the film and for everything you do back
after this, friends. Our team of partial partners is growing,
(25:32):
and I love communicating behind the scenes with this special
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Call (877)Â 588-7758 or go to in the market with Janet parshall.org.
(25:57):
I always love spending time with Doctor Faisal Rana or
as he's known to his friends, he's the president, CEO
and senior scholar of reasons to believe. It's a wonderful
organization that's dedicated to communicating the powerful scientific case for
God's existence. So there's no war between science and religion
at reasons to believe, believe me. And by the way,
(26:18):
they also underscore the Bible's reliability to both Christians and non-Christians.
There's an interesting story on background, by the way. He
converted to Christianity during grad school after being convinced of
the validity of Christ's claims and of his own need
for a Savior. He got his undergrad degree in chemistry
from West Virginia State College, highest honors, got a PhD
in chemistry with an emphasis in biochemistry. Ohio University completed
(26:42):
postdoctoral work at the University of Virginia and Georgia before
joining Reasons to Believe. He worked for seven years as
a senior scientist and research and development for Procter and Gamble. Why,
you asked, did I put that in the record? Well,
Your Honor, this would be my expert witness. Those are
his credentials. I hope I've influenced the jury. So fuzz
picks up on everything scientific that's out there that's worth
(27:02):
taking a look at. We say on this program, walking
through life with the Bible in one hand and the
newspaper in the other. So you can imagine when the
story broke that there is a Chinese firm now that's
working to create gestational robots, you can bet you need
the Bible in one hand, because you've already got the
newspaper telling you this. It's an innovation that wants to
use artificial amniotic fluid and nutrient delivery via hose replicating
(27:27):
natural gestation now to be integrated into human robots. What
could possibly go wrong? So they Chinese are calling it
their gestational robot. The idea comes from a technology group
that's based in China that involves a humanoid designed with
an artificial womb embedded in its abdomen. You cannot make
this stuff up. Intending to carry a fetus through ten
(27:49):
months of gestation. Apparently, you need an extra month when
you're being carried by a robot and deliver a baby,
according to Chinese media outlets. You can bet they want
the world to know they're doing this. Slated for debut
next year, 2026. Expected to sell for over for under ¥100,000.
That's around $13,900. The robot aims to offer a pregnancy alternative.
(28:12):
This sounds like a bad movie pregnancy alternative to those
who wish to avoid the burdens of human gestation. I
thought we took and got women involved with wombs for rent,
otherwise known as surrogacy. Right? Well, anyway, this announcement has
triggered intense public discourse, as you can imagine. And I
want to know what Doctor Rana has to say about this. So, fuzz,
the warmest of welcomes. Just as a starting point. I
(28:32):
just read today that China, by the way, hating the
Uighurs in the western part of their country, not only
use them for organ transplants, but they now are doing
forced pregnancies for the sole and single purpose of harvesting
organs from babies as young as ten days old. So
if you're making women carry babies, what do you need
(28:54):
a robot for?
S19 (28:55):
Yeah. You know, the thing is, with China and technology
is they just simply don't have the same level of
regulations and considerations, I think, for the value of human
life as we do in the West, though, sadly, what
is happening in the West is eroding those values as well.
(29:17):
But you know, what you see when you look at
China is really, I think, a country that has no
real limits or boundaries to what they are willing to
do with respect to biotechnology. And so, you know, these
two reports that you're describing, I think, exemplify that Extremely well.
S1 (29:39):
Well, you know, what's interesting is that China's got a problem.
For the longest period of time, they had a one
child only policy, and then they sort of renegotiated that
a little bit. And you could have two, depending on
where you lived in the country. Either way you look
at it, there's still a forced abortion policy in place
under the communist regime. Why would the paradox here can't
be overlooked? Why would you create a robot that can
(30:00):
gestate when you're telling women that they're going to be
forcibly aborted? Steven Mosher was there during the Cultural Revolution.
He witnessed, in fact, babies that were getting formaldehyde in
their fontanelle as they were emerging from mom. So if
you're that kind of barbaric in your attitude toward gestation,
why would you come up with a robot? So apparently
they're going to sell it to some other country. I
(30:21):
don't see them using it in China, do you?
S19 (30:24):
Well, you know, this could very well be a technology
that could be quite popular because, uh, the bottom line is, as, um,
as women just see pregnancy increasingly as being a burden, right.
And so, you know, there's there's a very interesting intersection
(30:45):
between transhumanism and feminism at play here, where the idea
is that one of the limitations that women uniquely bear,
one of the, the, the burdens that women uniquely bear
is that they become pregnant. And this is the only
way in which we can create the next generation is
(31:06):
through women becoming pregnant. But many women see that as being, again,
an inconvenience. It's hard on their bodies. It disrupts their careers.
And so if there's a way to have children and
divorce that human reproduction from the human organism, from from
the biology of women, that is considered by many people
(31:29):
to be, um, a good thing, right? And so this
is part of the feminist agenda. It's part of this
whole transhumanism idea that we can use technology to modify
humans to overcome limitations and to usher in a new
era of humanity, or posthumanity. So that's really, I think,
(31:51):
fundamentally what's at play here.
S1 (31:53):
I think you're very astute in your observations. I want
to linger on the biological before we get to the
theological on this. So again, it belies the fact that
there isn't something going on with a baby in utero. And, mom,
the sound of the human heartbeat, the sound of her voice, uh,
the rhythms, um, the connectedness that's taking place, that that
(32:14):
transcendent bond that is so precious that all pregnant women
understand before their baby is even more why they smile
in the delivery room. That's that voice I've been hearing
for several months. I recognize it now. What happens to
the mental health of these babies now? I granted, there
are some women who don't want stretch marks. Okay, I
get it. But for women who are saying when you
carry that baby underneath you, that baby is apart from conception.
(32:36):
So what happens to all of those things that don't
get transmitted when you're being warehoused in a machine?
S19 (32:43):
Yeah. I mean, you're spot on, Janet. That would be
one of my concerns with this technology is, you know,
you can perhaps in a very crude way, replicate the
uterine environment, the womb. But you're not ever going to
be able to fully replicate everything that happens during the
course of pregnancy. And, you know, you're talking about a
(33:05):
psychological bond that forms between mother and child. But the
the process of human growth and development is so complex,
and the interplay between the mom's physiology and the baby's
physiology is so complex and intricate, we don't fully understand it.
And so you're never going to be able to replicate
(33:25):
what's going on in the womb. This is a technology
that I think is is destined for failure. Uh, but,
you know, at the at the very core for the
very reasons you bring up.
S1 (33:37):
Wow. Well, and then it just it's a Pandora's box
for us when you think about all the alternatives. Let
me go back to that point in a minute. But
I was thinking of a study. I think it was
done at the University of Wisconsin where they had these
little monkeys, the little spider monkeys, I think. And they
wanted to understand the connection between mother and child. And
so they had some babies with real mothers, some babies
where it was a chicken wire covered in terrycloth and
(34:00):
some babies who had no maternal figure whatsoever. And of course,
in the latter two categories, these were monkeys who showed
all kinds of psychotic problems in their mental health and
emotional development as well. So if that happens in that
kind of a laboratory, what happens when you're raised in
a robot? And then, by the way, if you're going
to play God, well, it isn't just a matter of saying,
we're going to transmit this material and have it gestate
(34:22):
in a robot. What happens when the lab technician says, no, no,
we've got too many blond haired, blue eyed babies or no,
this baby we think will be predestined, like Margaret Sanger.
This one will grow up to be a criminal. Like
she could tell that ahead of time. But hey, that's
what happens when you find a death cult like Planned Parenthood.
So what? Who's going to be the arbiter of whether
(34:44):
or not that child continues to live? You take away
everything that God designed in terms of its biological environment,
but you're going to then have a power player in
place here who's going to have unfettered access to a
decision to, say, pull the plug on the machine.
S19 (34:58):
Yeah, and I couldn't agree more. I mean, that's that's
a frightening prospect is that it just makes the termination
of the pregnancy that much easier when you've now suddenly
moved it from the womb into into the laboratory. It
really feels very much like a brave new world, right?
Huxley's Brave New World, where there's just really no limits
(35:22):
or no control over, over a over this potential prospect.
S1 (35:27):
Yeah. You made an interesting point where China's, you know,
this is next year. This isn't future. This is right here,
right now. $13,900. Hey. And then it raises an interesting
question for us. Is it once and done, or are
you just going to keep it around until you decide
you want another child? I mean, and again, you and
I haven't had the privilege of talking to the people
(35:48):
who've developed this. If you call such a thing a privilege.
But the reality is, are you going to use this
one time? Um, is there a separate capsule that you
snap onto the robot for each consecutive pregnancy that happens
after that?
S19 (36:02):
Yeah. And, you know, and I've tried to find information
about specifically what these scientists are doing and I've not
been able to. So this is very much a, an
announcement about what they plan to do in the future. Um,
I am personally a little bit skeptical that they're going
to be able to pull it off just because of
the complexity of of pregnancy. And, you know, we we
(36:27):
can do in vitro fertilization. And, and there are actually
scientists doing legitimate work with artificial wombs. But there's that
2 or 3 month window between fertilization and, uh, later
stages of development that we don't understand at all. So skeptical.
S1 (36:44):
Yeah, I'm with you on that completely. When we come back,
give me a theological perspective on this, because AI is
a new religion after all. Sam Altman said he wanted
to create God. So what part of a godlike idea
is in the mind of the creators? And what do
you think God's position is on this? Can we guess
or can we get some clues from his word? Doctor
(37:05):
Farron is with us. This is the man behind Reasons
to Believe, one of my very favorite ministries out there.
He's the president and senior scholar at that. Precious organizations
back after this. Well, I tell you, and I, as
(37:33):
followers of Christ, need to do some deep thinking about
this artificial intelligence. Buyer beware is the statement that comes
to my mind, by the way. In the same vein,
artificial wombs have been showing promise. Apparently there was an
animal study that was done in 2017. Researchers at the
Children's Hospital of Philadelphia successfully nurtured a premature lamb equivalent
(37:53):
to 23 weeks of human pregnancy in a biobag, a
transparent vinyl sac filled with warm, saline based artificial amniotic fluid.
And also, apparently, when they had the world show this year,
this is always captured global attention. It was the 2025
World Robot Conference. Um, there was another notable point there
(38:13):
that apparently, uh, it's going to be the first ever
AI powered breeding robot integrating artificial intelligence and biotechnology to
revolutionize crop breeding. I don't know, is there a hue
and cry for that out in the marketplace? I don't understand.
I'm so glad that I get some answers from Doctor Faisal.
He is the president, CEO and senior scholar of Reasons
(38:34):
to Believe. He picked up on this immediately, as they
always do at reasons to believe. So we were talking
about the biological impact. That's an unknown. I think sometimes
science forgets that there's a transcendence to this mystery of life,
particularly since God knows us before we're even conceived. So somehow,
if you can just create a robot that will gestate
and as you rightly say, from conception until that fragile
(38:57):
point where you think you could move it into some
kind of an artificial amniotic sac and that and that's
a chasm. That's a big, big, uh, hill that you'd
have to get over. But there's a bigger image there,
and that is you and I are the best part
of creation. That's why I believe strongly, as do you
and human exceptionalism. We're the only part of creation that
was made in his image. And so Imago Dei comes
(39:18):
into play here. The idea that every single one of
us is made, we are image bearers. We are made
in the image of God. What happens to that if
you're gestated in a robot?
S19 (39:29):
Yeah. You know, that's that's a great question. And you
know what I the way I look at this in
terms of, you know, human beings bearing God's image is
that the mere fact that we are even contemplating doing
things like creating artificial wombs and, you know, developing AI technology,
(39:50):
things like that, modifying our bodies with gene editing and
what have you is really a testament to the fact
that we are exceptional, that we are unique because there's
no other creature that exists or has ever existed that
has even been able to contemplate these things. So to me,
this is clear evidence that we are exceptional, but we also,
(40:11):
as human beings, exist in a fallen state. And so
what you see in a fallen state is this exceptional nature,
this image of God that really is meant to glorify God, uh,
is being perverted and distorted to to try to usurp
the creator's place. You know, in some respects we can't
(40:32):
help but to play God because we bear God's image.
But what you see happening is this creativity, which is
meant to take care of the planet and to promote
human flourishing and honor and glorify God, is being distorted
in an attempt to build a Tower of Babel, if
you will, and to try to take God's place.
S1 (40:54):
Mhm. So astute. By the way, let me point out
to my friends that in your book, humans 2.0, you
wrote a whole chapter about this called Artificial Wombs and
the Post-Human World. So you saw this coming even before
this story broke in tech news about this artificial gestation
that's going to take place with robots. You pick up
on something, though, in the book that I think we
(41:15):
should talk about here, too, which is and I'm going
to use the word again. You can't create everything in science.
You know this better than I do because this is
your background. But science is a kind of methodology. It
doesn't deal with the transcendent. And so here are some
transcendents that you can't dissect in a laboratory. What does
this do to the family bond? What does it do
to the relationship between mother and child? And we just
(41:37):
touched on the human dignity question, but it radically challenges
the formation of what God designed in a place of perfection.
So talk to me about that. How do we. Well,
who do you put down for your mother if you're
gestated in a robot? What does that do to maternal bonds?
S19 (41:54):
Yeah. Well, yeah. You know, you're going to, you know, in, in,
in that future world, you're going to have people born
who aren't going to know who their parents really are, right? Uh,
who are who are, again, lacking that bond formation between
mother and child, which is so critical in terms of,
(42:14):
I think, our identity in growing up in a healthy,
psychologically well-adjusted way. But you're you're making human beings ultimately
to be nothing more than machines or to be nothing
more than really a bag full of chemicals. And you're
neglecting the fact that there is. There's an immaterial aspect
(42:34):
to our nature, right? That that is completely being overlooked.
I think when you start to treat human beings as
something that you can modify at will, and you're right,
it's a complete disregard for the elegant designs of the
of the human organism, uh, that God instituted, including this
(42:57):
whole process of of pregnancy when God commands human beings
to multiply and fill the earth. The whole idea is
that this is a process by which not only would
the human population grow, but the human population would grow
with people who uniquely bear God's image, bringing glory to God.
And this is all lost. I think when you start
(43:18):
thinking about human beings strictly in technological terms.
S1 (43:22):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Coming full circle back to
the biological aspect of this again. What about the relationship
between a mom and her pre-born child, what it does
to her system? Physiologically, that's beneficial. What it does to
the pre-born baby's body that's beneficial if you're feeding through
a hose to use the exact words that they talked
about in this tech article. That stuff can't be replicated
(43:45):
in a lab as of yet. So they create a
robot who can gestate, but the transmission of nutrients and
hormones and, uh, who knows what else God has coursing
through the veins that we don't fully understand at this point,
that isn't anywhere near being replicated, and $13,900 is not
going to buy you what God can do better.
S19 (44:05):
Yeah. Exactly right. That I couldn't agree more.
S1 (44:08):
Well, so how do we respond to this as Christians?
What should our reaction be to this kind of stuff?
You know, I don't want people to think that we
run for the hills and hide in the caves, but
I want to be a Berean. I want to test
all things here. How do we respond?
S19 (44:20):
Yeah, well, I think it becomes important that we boldly
proclaim this idea that human beings truly are made in
God's image, that that the design of human biology is
an optimal design, and that science really affirms the notion
that we are exceptional and that there is incredible benefit
(44:42):
to the mother and the child that accrue through the
pregnancy process.
S1 (44:48):
Yeah. Excellent. Thank you so much. We need to come
back together again soon. Let's talk more about what's in
your book, humans 2.0. I think that's so prescient for
the days and times in which we live. By the way,
if you all go to my information page, I've got
a link to the article so you can read this
for yourself. This isn't making it up. This is the future.
The creators of this thing want it to happen next year, 2026.
(45:09):
But more importantly, you need to tap into the resources
available to you as a thinking Christian, biblically and critically,
a thinking Christian, you need to know more about reasons
to Believe. So check it out at In the Market
with Janet Parshall. Thank you. Thanks, friends. We'll see you
next time.
Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
of In the Market with Janet Parshall, and it is
my most sincere hope that you are edified, equipped, enlightened,
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out there in the marketplace of ideas and influence and
occupy until he comes. But before you start listening, let
me just take a moment of your time to tell
you about this month's truth tool. It's called The Steadfast
Love of the Lord by my friend and frequent guest,
(00:22):
Doctor Sam Storms. You know, he tells us that so
often we struggle with this idea of feeling like we're
loved by God, or that somehow we've done something that
separates us from the love of God. But we fail
to remember the Scripture that reminds us that while we
were yet sinners, not perfect, not all put together, not
everything's all been worked out while we were yet sinners.
That's when Christ died for us. Love is an action word,
(00:44):
and that's what Doctor Sam Storms reminds us in his book,
The Steadfast Love of God. I don't know about you,
but with the headlines of the day, being reminded of
who God is is about the most precious news I
could hear on a regular basis. And I'd love for
you to have a copy written by a man who
understands the Bible and always delivers rich theology. So just
call 877 Janet 58. When you give a gift of
(01:05):
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(01:27):
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(01:50):
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And now with all my heart, I hope you hear
(02:10):
something today that really changes your perspective and makes you
excited about being a follower of Jesus Christ. Enjoy the program!
S2 (02:20):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (02:21):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (02:24):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S3 (02:26):
Extremely rare safety move by a major 17 years.
S5 (02:30):
The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S3 (02:32):
This is not over. Hi friends.
S1 (02:48):
Welcome to in the market with Janet partial. A very
happy Monday to you. Hope you had a wonderful weekend.
We are on the eve of the two year anniversary
of this horrific, catastrophic massacre that took place in Israel
October 7th, 2023. And that's where we're going to start
our conversation today. We want to take a look at
a couple of news stories that tells you how the
world is responding. And oh, by the way, the clock
(03:10):
is ticking. Don't forget that 20 point peace plan that
was on the table. Benjamin Netanyahu, President Donald Trump standing
side by side, offering it to Hamas. The deadline was
6:00 last night for the return of all of the hostages,
dead or alive. Still waiting, still waiting, still waiting. Here's
more of an update of what's going on from my
(03:31):
friend Chris Mitchell with CBN news.
S6 (03:33):
Secretary of State Marco Rubio told Fox News Sunday he's
hopeful the hostages may be coming home.
S7 (03:40):
I think that we are the closest we have been
in a very long time to having no hostages held
by Hamas, either living or deceased. The second part of this,
and it's going to be much tougher. Part of it
is what happens after that. Who's going to run Gaza
moving forward? It can't be Hamas. It can't be a
terrorist organization.
S6 (03:56):
President Trump sounded positive on truth, social and impatient. He
wrote I am told that the first phase should be
completed this week and I am asking everyone to move fast.
I will continue to monitor the centuries old conflict. Time
is of the essence or massive bloodshed will follow something
(04:17):
that nobody wants to see. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu
says it's now up to Hamas.
S8 (04:25):
Well, we accepted the deal, as did all the world.
It was President Trump's plan. Hamas says that it accepted
the deal. Now the onus is on Hamas. This plan
consists of two parts. The first part is releasing all
the hostages. Israel makes a tactical withdrawal, stays in Gaza.
And then the second part is meant to demilitarize Gaza
(04:49):
and disarm Hamas. That will be negotiated.
S6 (04:53):
Hamas says it may need time to collect the 48 hostages,
only 20 of whom are still believed to be alive.
Other hurdles include Hamas reportedly demanding Israel release prisoners they
refused in the past, including Marwan Barghouti, convicted of multiple
murders during the Second Intifada. The terror group also wants
(05:13):
a role for the Palestinian Authority in ruling Gaza. Another
condition Israel has rejected. President Trump told CNN that if
Hamas tries to cling to power, it faces complete obliteration.
Retired IDF general Amir Avivi tells CBN news he believes
the tables turned against Hamas during the last meeting at
(05:36):
the white House.
S9 (05:37):
This is exactly what happened in Washington, a realization globally
that it's game over. Hamas lost. Even if we don't
see yet Hamas laying down their weapons already lost. The
IDF is controlling 80% of Gaza completely. 900,000 people left
the city, and the city is surrounded. The is is done.
S6 (05:57):
Chris Mitchell CBN news Jerusalem.
S1 (06:00):
And yet again if you look at the 20 point plan.
Point number four within 72 hours of Israel publicly accepting
this agreement, all hostages alive and deceased will be returned.
That's 72 hours has come and gone. Terrorists don't give
up power very readily or very easily. So be praying
for the peace of Jerusalem. In the meantime, as we
come up on the anniversary of this horrific massacre that
(06:24):
took place in Israel, bigger proportionately, if you look at
size of population than our nine over 11 here in
the United States, you had hundreds of thousands of people
marching on the European continent supporting Hamas. Here's more from
a French news outlet.
S10 (06:41):
Expressing support for Palestinians.
S11 (06:44):
In Palestine.
S10 (06:48):
An estimated quarter of a million people in Amsterdam called
for an end to the Israel-Gaza war. They want the
Dutch government to recognise a Palestinian state and impose sanctions
on Israel.
S12 (07:02):
There are a lot of things that the Dutch government
could do. One of the things is to stop supplying
weapons to Israel. It stopped buying weapons from Israel. We
are also the biggest trading partner of Israel, so there
are a lot of things to do there and clear sanctions.
Now we have only two ministers on the sanctions list.
It should be way more. All the political and military
responsible should be sanctioned.
S10 (07:23):
There were also demonstrations in Turkey. The largest was in Istanbul.
Protesters expressed solidarity with Palestinians and with the intercepted global
flotilla that had aimed to deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza.
Dozens of flotillas activists detained by Israel arrived in Turkey
on Saturday after being deported. At the rally, children wrote
(07:45):
post-it notes to the children of Gaza.
S13 (07:49):
For a certain time, the Palestinian issue appeared to be
a problem linked to religious beliefs, but now it has
become entirely a crime against humanity and has caused a
huge reaction among people worldwide. I want them to stand
by our brothers and sisters. That is why I am here.
S10 (08:09):
Sunday's demonstrations included this one in Bulgaria. There were similar
mass protests in Europe on Saturday, with Israel's military campaign
in Gaza against Hamas about to enter its third year.
S1 (08:21):
And that's the spin from France. Remember, France and Saudi
Arabia co-hosted the UN conference on the establishment of Palestine
at the United Nations. So I expect there to be
a little bias. But glean from that report what you will.
I rejected quite a bit of it other than some
basic facts. For example, the report talked about what the
what happened in the Netherlands. Craig and I have been there,
(08:42):
by the way, this was where the pilgrims took flight, right?
They left England, they went to the Netherlands and then
came to the United States of America. So it was
supposed to be a haven of religious tolerance, and it
was supposed to be a place where people would find sanctuary.
That's the whole story behind Corrie ten boom, whose family
hid Jews in their home. Right? So 250,000 people gathered
(09:05):
in in the Netherlands, in Amsterdam over the weekend, the
same city where Anne Frank was hiding in an attic
where Corrie Ten boom and her family were hiding Jews
in their home. 250,000 people were chanting free, free Palestine! Now,
you also heard one person in that French report talk
about the fact that it wasn't just a question of religious,
(09:26):
it was a violation of human rights. I'd like to
find that person and have them sit down and watch
October 7th, bearing witness to a massacre. If you want
to talk about human rights violations, then you need to
see this new documentary. Craig and I watched it over
the weekend where it was nothing but demonic activity, civilians
(09:47):
sought out by terrorists for the mere fact that they
were Jews and the acts that they committed made the
Holocaust unequal in their behavior. Absolutely stunning. When we come back,
we're going to talk to one of the creators and
producers of this must see documentary. And in full disclosure,
I will tell you it is not for the faint
of heart. But then again, evil usually isn't back after this.
(10:24):
Lamentations tells us that the steadfast love of the Lord
never ceases, but sometimes it just doesn't feel like that.
That's why I've chosen the steadfast love of the Lord
as this month's truth tool. Doctor Sam Storms will teach
you that what the Bible says about God's love is true.
Ask for your copy of The Steadfast Love of the Lord.
When you give a gift of any amount to in
the market, call 87758. That's 877858 or go to in
(10:47):
the market with Janet Parshall.
S14 (10:55):
October 7th, the nation woke up to a nightmare.
S15 (11:22):
Of course.
S16 (11:23):
Exactly what Israel had promised Israelis would never happen to them.
Happened to them.
S1 (11:49):
That is a trailer for one of the most powerful
documentaries I've ever seen. Craig and I watched it over
the weekend. It's called October 7th, bearing witness to the massacre.
It is not for the faint of heart. But then again,
evil never looks pretty. But it is imperative to stop
the propaganda being meted out against Israelis in the Jewish
people and what happened on that day. And as we
(12:10):
come up to the two year anniversary, it's even hard
to articulate the demonic ness of what's going to be
happening tomorrow. There are multiple, quote, pro-Palestinian from the river
to the sea free, free Palestine rallies taking place all
across America. The antidote to that is information, and you
need to understand exactly what happened, what kind of a
human being goes in with a GoPro camera strapped to
(12:31):
their chest so they can take pictures of innocent people
being massacred simply because they're Jews? Well, when the credits rolled,
I noticed at the end that there was one man
there by the name of Justin Krohn. I started putting
two and two together, and I thought, I wonder if
there's a linkage between Justin Krohn and Judy Krohn, who's
the former producer for this program and now works for
doctor Mark Jobe in bold steps. And I'm glad I pursued,
(12:55):
because Judy pointed me the way that Justin, who's on
the road right now promoting this film, he's the founding
director of the Kesher project, and he knows a little
something about this conflict. By the way, shout out to
the home team. He got his Masters of Divinity at
the Moody Theological Seminary, and he speaks frequently about the
Jewish foundations of the Christian faith, the history of Christian anti-Semitism,
(13:17):
the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. In a word, Justin is the perfect
person to be talking to. As we come up on
the anniversary of this horrific event. Justin, I'm telling you,
I just it was absolutely a stunning film. And I
think if you were ever going to see evil portrayed,
this was it. You just could not comprehend that mankind
could stop and mete out that kind of activity against
(13:40):
their fellow man. But Jeremiah tells us the heart is
deceitful and it is wicked. And boy does that come
through loud and clear. Thank you for the documentary. Tell
me how you came up with the idea and how
in the world did you get all this footage?
S17 (13:53):
Yeah. Thank you so much, Janet, for having me on.
And I really do appreciate, uh, that you watch credits. Uh, um, and, uh,
I'm glad we can talk about this. What I consider
an incredibly important film, um, that I think people really
do need to to see. I know it might be hard, uh,
(14:15):
to do so. I'm sure it wasn't easy for you
and Craig to to sit through it. Um, but it's necessary.
It's important that people face the reality of what occurred
on October 7th. So many people, I think, don't really,
truly know what occurred. And, uh, this film, uh, it
(14:36):
portrays it. It shows it. Uh, and so the content
that we acquired, uh, some of it was available through
regular social media channels. But a lot of people don't
know that there are channels on telegram that are completely
devoted to Hamas, and they stream a lot of their
(14:58):
stuff on these channels. In fact, that's what many of
them did that day of October 7th. And so that's
where we acquired a lot of the content of the
massacre that that occurred. And we do are very careful
to do our best to honor the victims, to blur
things out when they need to be, uh, and to
cut things so that we don't linger too long on
(15:21):
some of the just horrific, uh, um, um, brutality that
that occurred. I mean, it's really hard to put into
words that human beings could do this to someone else. Um, and, uh, sadly, very,
very sadly, they did. And it resulted in the, the
worst tragedy for the Jewish people since the Holocaust. Mhm. And, um,
(15:45):
you know, they're still going through this, you know, the
the nation of Israel and Jewish people worldwide who have
their hearts connected to what happened there. They're still going
through this trauma. Um, there's still, uh, 48 hostages that
remain in captivity, 20 that are presumed alive. I mean,
you can imagine what this must be like for the
(16:06):
family members. Um, and so, uh, we think it's incredibly
important that people reengage, uh, if maybe they've been disconnected
a bit from, uh, what? What happened? And maybe their
focus has been on the war over the last two
years and forgetting what started the war. And, uh, I
think it's important that we mourn with those who mourn,
(16:29):
that we weep with those who weep, and we stand
with them in solidarity. Uh, in in one of the darkest, uh,
seasons for the nation of Israel.
S1 (16:40):
Let me tell you a couple of things that I
think you did superbly. First of all, to the and
I do not want to discourage people from watching this.
What Justin and his team have done is they've been
very judicious. In fact, at some point when the unbearable
is taking place, it's a blackout. You can hear the dialogue,
but you don't have to see it. I was invited
by the Israeli embassy here in DC to see the
uncut raw footage. I chose not to because you cannot
(17:02):
see what you've seen. And I thought, I don't need
to see that. Those are images that I'll carry with
me the rest of my life. To your credit and
your team's credit, you put enough in there for us
to begin to understand the horrific nature. But there is oh,
so much more where that came from. But you need
to understand that this was barbaric. Every word you can
think of subscribed to the nature of evil is in this.
(17:23):
But the other thing, Justin, that I thought was significant
and there are two points. Number one, and I want
to pick up on this when we come back, you
drew the line of the border around Gaza and where
it abuts against the nation of Israel. For people who
think that this was singularly an assault on the Nova
music Festival, they're sorely mistaken. This was an unbelievably well-orchestrated, plea,
(17:44):
preplanned attack. And it was in it was across the
entire boundary between Gaza and Israel, by land, by air,
a dressing up as IDF officers, dressing up as police officers.
This was an unmitigated, unparalleled terrorist attack. Justin Kron is
the creator and one of the producers. The film is
(18:04):
called October 7th, bearing witness to the massacre. It is
an imperative viewing. Check it out. I got a link
on my website back after this. What an honor to
(18:25):
talk to Justin Kron. He's the founding director of the
Kesher project. He is also co-creator and producer of the
profoundly important documentary called October 7th. Bearing witness to the massacre.
Craig and I watch it on Prime Video. It is
a must see and for a multiplicity of reasons. And
let me go to one of the two in particular
I want to point out. So I put this out
(18:46):
just before the break. Justin, which is you do so
many things that are historically important for us to understand
about the conflict that's going on. One is the idea
that this was just an assault on a music festival
with a bunch of kids is erroneous. That was one
of a multiplicity of sites. It really does beg the question,
and I and I hate to say this because I
have such unbridled respect for the IDF and their intelligence capabilities,
(19:08):
but this was an abject failure. So how in the
world were they able to come in by air, by sea,
dress up as cops, dress up as IDF officers, and
there be no Intel that this was coming?
S17 (19:19):
Well, there was certainly some Intel that that some things
were brewing, but they didn't know exactly what. And I
think it was just a complete failure of imagination that
Hamas had the capability of executing, uh, such an operation. Uh,
similar to for us here in the United States, uh,
(19:41):
prior to nine over 11. I don't think anyone ever
imagined that there could be people who fly planes into
the World Trade Towers. And so, you know, I think
it's important to understand that, you know, Israelis are human,
just like everyone else. And so there were catastrophic mistakes
that were made. Uh, and there have been people who
have been held accountable for that. Thankfully, though, I mean,
(20:03):
there were, uh, many, uh, civilians, uh, Israelis as well as, uh,
Israeli police, IDF, um, who did respond, uh, unfortunately, uh,
you know, later than sooner. Uh, but they did, uh,
save many lives. As a result, I mean, there were
several terrorists, uh, a few hundred, I believe, terrorists, uh,
(20:27):
who were killed that day by the IDF. So, um. Yeah,
it's it's hard to to think that the, uh, IDF
couldn't have gotten there sooner, but, uh, that's just the
reality of how it played out.
S1 (20:39):
You made me think of something. I remember talking to
Condi Rice, and she said the same thing. Who would
have thought that an airplane would have been turned into
a missile. I mean, it's a failure of imagination is
an apt phrase. The other thing, too, is two points
on what you just said. One is that there were
people who literally ran into the terrorist activity. People who
lived in the north of Israel, who came down to
do whatever they could to help. And in many cases
(21:00):
they were far too late, but they were running toward
the danger, not away from it. The other thing, too,
was there were Gazans who worked in some of the
kibbutzim in that area, and they went back and shared
with Hamas particulars because they knew specific people, whether they
had a dog, what house they lived in. And so
they had specificity when they went in to do their
particular attack. So, again, very, very well prepared. Here's the
(21:21):
other thing you did that I think makes this documentary
so necessary to watch. You do a superb job of
creating the history pre October 7th. You know when we
talked about the failure of intelligence. You're absolutely right. Something
was fomenting for months from January until October there was
unrest in Israel, a kind of a a back and
forth even within the Israeli population. And that rendered perhaps
(21:44):
some vulnerability where Hamas thought, this is our moment, this
is where we're going to strike. And so they could
have been planning while these different factions were going back
and forth in the streets of Israel. And I think
you make a great point of pointing that out. The
other thing, too, is you talked about the rehab that
people are still going through, how you deal with trauma,
a group of surfers, which is a wonderful way if
you survive this, if you were a hostage and you
(22:06):
saw the things that you saw, the unspeakable things that
you saw, how do you recover from that? People two
years later are still struggling. Talk to me about that.
S17 (22:14):
Yeah. So it was really important for us that we
talked to survivors and we connected with an organization that
uses surfing to to help victims of traumatic events to
heal and recover. Uh, and it's really remarkable, some of
that work, and I think a lot of it for
them is just being in community with other people who
(22:36):
went through similar experiences. Uh, so that shared experience is, uh,
helped many of them to heal. And, you know, you
bring out that we cover the history leading up to
the events of October 7th, which I think is so
important for people to learn. And it's one of the
reasons why we made the film is because right after
(22:58):
October 7th, uh, we started hearing all of this misinformation
and rewriting of history about Gaza. I mean, many people
were saying, well, it was just, uh, it was just
resistance because of 75 years of brutal occupation. What else
would people do if they were being oppressed for that long? Well,
(23:18):
they seem to have forgotten, which we bring out in
the film that in 2005, Israel, completely disengaged from Gaza,
removed all of its citizens. The IDF was removed. And
what happened right after that? Well, you had Hamas literally
within 24 hours of Israel disengaging in August of 2005,
(23:40):
started firing rockets into Israel. Over the next few months.
You had Israeli civilians who were killed, traumatized, terrorized. In 2006,
you had Hamas that was voted into power. And then
Hamas seized complete control of Gaza from the other Palestinian party, Fatah,
(24:00):
and they turned it for the next 20 years. They
essentially turned Gaza into a military fortress for just an
event like this one. And that's the history. That's what
people need to know, that sadly, too many people don't know.
S1 (24:19):
Well, this is why I want to encourage people to
see the documentary, Justin, because we need to know the
best antidote for this propaganda are the facts. Just the information.
You had a special showing over the weekend. How did
it go? Tell me about it.
S17 (24:31):
Uh, people who are seen it have been very, very moved. Uh,
there have been many within the Jewish community who are
watching it, who are thanking us for it, and we're
grateful for the opportunity. As followers of Jesus, to be
able to serve the Jewish community in that way. And
to be able to come together.
S1 (24:51):
Amen.
S17 (24:52):
To help.
S18 (24:52):
People learn.
S1 (24:54):
Justin, I said it was on Prime Video. Anywhere else,
people can see it.
S17 (24:58):
Apple TV, Google Play, YouTube movies, and a couple of others.
They could just go to our website. October 7th.
S1 (25:07):
Excellent. We'll make sure that's up on our website. I
hope this is not our last conversation. Justin, I want
to learn more about the Kesher project. Thank you so
much for the film and for everything you do back
after this, friends. Our team of partial partners is growing,
(25:32):
and I love communicating behind the scenes with this special
group of friends who are devoted to giving a monthly
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and I even send a weekly audio message straight from
my heart to yours. Ready to become a partial partner?
Call (877)Â 588-7758 or go to in the market with Janet parshall.org.
(25:57):
I always love spending time with Doctor Faisal Rana or
as he's known to his friends, he's the president, CEO
and senior scholar of reasons to believe. It's a wonderful
organization that's dedicated to communicating the powerful scientific case for
God's existence. So there's no war between science and religion
at reasons to believe, believe me. And by the way,
(26:18):
they also underscore the Bible's reliability to both Christians and non-Christians.
There's an interesting story on background, by the way. He
converted to Christianity during grad school after being convinced of
the validity of Christ's claims and of his own need
for a Savior. He got his undergrad degree in chemistry
from West Virginia State College, highest honors, got a PhD
in chemistry with an emphasis in biochemistry. Ohio University completed
(26:42):
postdoctoral work at the University of Virginia and Georgia before
joining Reasons to Believe. He worked for seven years as
a senior scientist and research and development for Procter and Gamble. Why,
you asked, did I put that in the record? Well,
Your Honor, this would be my expert witness. Those are
his credentials. I hope I've influenced the jury. So fuzz
picks up on everything scientific that's out there that's worth
(27:02):
taking a look at. We say on this program, walking
through life with the Bible in one hand and the
newspaper in the other. So you can imagine when the
story broke that there is a Chinese firm now that's
working to create gestational robots, you can bet you need
the Bible in one hand, because you've already got the
newspaper telling you this. It's an innovation that wants to
use artificial amniotic fluid and nutrient delivery via hose replicating
(27:27):
natural gestation now to be integrated into human robots. What
could possibly go wrong? So they Chinese are calling it
their gestational robot. The idea comes from a technology group
that's based in China that involves a humanoid designed with
an artificial womb embedded in its abdomen. You cannot make
this stuff up. Intending to carry a fetus through ten
(27:49):
months of gestation. Apparently, you need an extra month when
you're being carried by a robot and deliver a baby,
according to Chinese media outlets. You can bet they want
the world to know they're doing this. Slated for debut
next year, 2026. Expected to sell for over for under ¥100,000.
That's around $13,900. The robot aims to offer a pregnancy alternative.
(28:12):
This sounds like a bad movie pregnancy alternative to those
who wish to avoid the burdens of human gestation. I
thought we took and got women involved with wombs for rent,
otherwise known as surrogacy. Right? Well, anyway, this announcement has
triggered intense public discourse, as you can imagine. And I
want to know what Doctor Rana has to say about this. So, fuzz,
the warmest of welcomes. Just as a starting point. I
(28:32):
just read today that China, by the way, hating the
Uighurs in the western part of their country, not only
use them for organ transplants, but they now are doing
forced pregnancies for the sole and single purpose of harvesting
organs from babies as young as ten days old. So
if you're making women carry babies, what do you need
(28:54):
a robot for?
S19 (28:55):
Yeah. You know, the thing is, with China and technology
is they just simply don't have the same level of
regulations and considerations, I think, for the value of human
life as we do in the West, though, sadly, what
is happening in the West is eroding those values as well.
(29:17):
But you know, what you see when you look at
China is really, I think, a country that has no
real limits or boundaries to what they are willing to
do with respect to biotechnology. And so, you know, these
two reports that you're describing, I think, exemplify that Extremely well.
S1 (29:39):
Well, you know, what's interesting is that China's got a problem.
For the longest period of time, they had a one
child only policy, and then they sort of renegotiated that
a little bit. And you could have two, depending on
where you lived in the country. Either way you look
at it, there's still a forced abortion policy in place
under the communist regime. Why would the paradox here can't
be overlooked? Why would you create a robot that can
(30:00):
gestate when you're telling women that they're going to be
forcibly aborted? Steven Mosher was there during the Cultural Revolution.
He witnessed, in fact, babies that were getting formaldehyde in
their fontanelle as they were emerging from mom. So if
you're that kind of barbaric in your attitude toward gestation,
why would you come up with a robot? So apparently
they're going to sell it to some other country. I
(30:21):
don't see them using it in China, do you?
S19 (30:24):
Well, you know, this could very well be a technology
that could be quite popular because, uh, the bottom line is, as, um,
as women just see pregnancy increasingly as being a burden, right.
And so, you know, there's there's a very interesting intersection
(30:45):
between transhumanism and feminism at play here, where the idea
is that one of the limitations that women uniquely bear,
one of the, the, the burdens that women uniquely bear
is that they become pregnant. And this is the only
way in which we can create the next generation is
(31:06):
through women becoming pregnant. But many women see that as being, again,
an inconvenience. It's hard on their bodies. It disrupts their careers.
And so if there's a way to have children and
divorce that human reproduction from the human organism, from from
the biology of women, that is considered by many people
(31:29):
to be, um, a good thing, right? And so this
is part of the feminist agenda. It's part of this
whole transhumanism idea that we can use technology to modify
humans to overcome limitations and to usher in a new
era of humanity, or posthumanity. So that's really, I think,
(31:51):
fundamentally what's at play here.
S1 (31:53):
I think you're very astute in your observations. I want
to linger on the biological before we get to the
theological on this. So again, it belies the fact that
there isn't something going on with a baby in utero. And, mom,
the sound of the human heartbeat, the sound of her voice, uh,
the rhythms, um, the connectedness that's taking place, that that
(32:14):
transcendent bond that is so precious that all pregnant women
understand before their baby is even more why they smile
in the delivery room. That's that voice I've been hearing
for several months. I recognize it now. What happens to
the mental health of these babies now? I granted, there
are some women who don't want stretch marks. Okay, I
get it. But for women who are saying when you
carry that baby underneath you, that baby is apart from conception.
(32:36):
So what happens to all of those things that don't
get transmitted when you're being warehoused in a machine?
S19 (32:43):
Yeah. I mean, you're spot on, Janet. That would be
one of my concerns with this technology is, you know,
you can perhaps in a very crude way, replicate the
uterine environment, the womb. But you're not ever going to
be able to fully replicate everything that happens during the
course of pregnancy. And, you know, you're talking about a
(33:05):
psychological bond that forms between mother and child. But the
the process of human growth and development is so complex,
and the interplay between the mom's physiology and the baby's
physiology is so complex and intricate, we don't fully understand it.
And so you're never going to be able to replicate
(33:25):
what's going on in the womb. This is a technology
that I think is is destined for failure. Uh, but,
you know, at the at the very core for the
very reasons you bring up.
S1 (33:37):
Wow. Well, and then it just it's a Pandora's box
for us when you think about all the alternatives. Let
me go back to that point in a minute. But
I was thinking of a study. I think it was
done at the University of Wisconsin where they had these
little monkeys, the little spider monkeys, I think. And they
wanted to understand the connection between mother and child. And
so they had some babies with real mothers, some babies
where it was a chicken wire covered in terrycloth and
(34:00):
some babies who had no maternal figure whatsoever. And of course,
in the latter two categories, these were monkeys who showed
all kinds of psychotic problems in their mental health and
emotional development as well. So if that happens in that
kind of a laboratory, what happens when you're raised in
a robot? And then, by the way, if you're going
to play God, well, it isn't just a matter of saying,
we're going to transmit this material and have it gestate
(34:22):
in a robot. What happens when the lab technician says, no, no,
we've got too many blond haired, blue eyed babies or no,
this baby we think will be predestined, like Margaret Sanger.
This one will grow up to be a criminal. Like
she could tell that ahead of time. But hey, that's
what happens when you find a death cult like Planned Parenthood.
So what? Who's going to be the arbiter of whether
(34:44):
or not that child continues to live? You take away
everything that God designed in terms of its biological environment,
but you're going to then have a power player in
place here who's going to have unfettered access to a
decision to, say, pull the plug on the machine.
S19 (34:58):
Yeah, and I couldn't agree more. I mean, that's that's
a frightening prospect is that it just makes the termination
of the pregnancy that much easier when you've now suddenly
moved it from the womb into into the laboratory. It
really feels very much like a brave new world, right?
Huxley's Brave New World, where there's just really no limits
(35:22):
or no control over, over a over this potential prospect.
S1 (35:27):
Yeah. You made an interesting point where China's, you know,
this is next year. This isn't future. This is right here,
right now. $13,900. Hey. And then it raises an interesting
question for us. Is it once and done, or are
you just going to keep it around until you decide
you want another child? I mean, and again, you and
I haven't had the privilege of talking to the people
(35:48):
who've developed this. If you call such a thing a privilege.
But the reality is, are you going to use this
one time? Um, is there a separate capsule that you
snap onto the robot for each consecutive pregnancy that happens
after that?
S19 (36:02):
Yeah. And, you know, and I've tried to find information
about specifically what these scientists are doing and I've not
been able to. So this is very much a, an
announcement about what they plan to do in the future. Um,
I am personally a little bit skeptical that they're going
to be able to pull it off just because of
the complexity of of pregnancy. And, you know, we we
(36:27):
can do in vitro fertilization. And, and there are actually
scientists doing legitimate work with artificial wombs. But there's that
2 or 3 month window between fertilization and, uh, later
stages of development that we don't understand at all. So skeptical.
S1 (36:44):
Yeah, I'm with you on that completely. When we come back,
give me a theological perspective on this, because AI is
a new religion after all. Sam Altman said he wanted
to create God. So what part of a godlike idea
is in the mind of the creators? And what do
you think God's position is on this? Can we guess
or can we get some clues from his word? Doctor
(37:05):
Farron is with us. This is the man behind Reasons
to Believe, one of my very favorite ministries out there.
He's the president and senior scholar at that. Precious organizations
back after this. Well, I tell you, and I, as
(37:33):
followers of Christ, need to do some deep thinking about
this artificial intelligence. Buyer beware is the statement that comes
to my mind, by the way. In the same vein,
artificial wombs have been showing promise. Apparently there was an
animal study that was done in 2017. Researchers at the
Children's Hospital of Philadelphia successfully nurtured a premature lamb equivalent
(37:53):
to 23 weeks of human pregnancy in a biobag, a
transparent vinyl sac filled with warm, saline based artificial amniotic fluid.
And also, apparently, when they had the world show this year,
this is always captured global attention. It was the 2025
World Robot Conference. Um, there was another notable point there
(38:13):
that apparently, uh, it's going to be the first ever
AI powered breeding robot integrating artificial intelligence and biotechnology to
revolutionize crop breeding. I don't know, is there a hue
and cry for that out in the marketplace? I don't understand.
I'm so glad that I get some answers from Doctor Faisal.
He is the president, CEO and senior scholar of Reasons
(38:34):
to Believe. He picked up on this immediately, as they
always do at reasons to believe. So we were talking
about the biological impact. That's an unknown. I think sometimes
science forgets that there's a transcendence to this mystery of life,
particularly since God knows us before we're even conceived. So somehow,
if you can just create a robot that will gestate
and as you rightly say, from conception until that fragile
(38:57):
point where you think you could move it into some
kind of an artificial amniotic sac and that and that's
a chasm. That's a big, big, uh, hill that you'd
have to get over. But there's a bigger image there,
and that is you and I are the best part
of creation. That's why I believe strongly, as do you
and human exceptionalism. We're the only part of creation that
was made in his image. And so Imago Dei comes
(39:18):
into play here. The idea that every single one of
us is made, we are image bearers. We are made
in the image of God. What happens to that if
you're gestated in a robot?
S19 (39:29):
Yeah. You know, that's that's a great question. And you
know what I the way I look at this in
terms of, you know, human beings bearing God's image is
that the mere fact that we are even contemplating doing
things like creating artificial wombs and, you know, developing AI technology,
(39:50):
things like that, modifying our bodies with gene editing and
what have you is really a testament to the fact
that we are exceptional, that we are unique because there's
no other creature that exists or has ever existed that
has even been able to contemplate these things. So to me,
this is clear evidence that we are exceptional, but we also,
(40:11):
as human beings, exist in a fallen state. And so
what you see in a fallen state is this exceptional nature,
this image of God that really is meant to glorify God, uh,
is being perverted and distorted to to try to usurp
the creator's place. You know, in some respects we can't
(40:32):
help but to play God because we bear God's image.
But what you see happening is this creativity, which is
meant to take care of the planet and to promote
human flourishing and honor and glorify God, is being distorted
in an attempt to build a Tower of Babel, if
you will, and to try to take God's place.
S1 (40:54):
Mhm. So astute. By the way, let me point out
to my friends that in your book, humans 2.0, you
wrote a whole chapter about this called Artificial Wombs and
the Post-Human World. So you saw this coming even before
this story broke in tech news about this artificial gestation
that's going to take place with robots. You pick up
on something, though, in the book that I think we
(41:15):
should talk about here, too, which is and I'm going
to use the word again. You can't create everything in science.
You know this better than I do because this is
your background. But science is a kind of methodology. It
doesn't deal with the transcendent. And so here are some
transcendents that you can't dissect in a laboratory. What does
this do to the family bond? What does it do
to the relationship between mother and child? And we just
(41:37):
touched on the human dignity question, but it radically challenges
the formation of what God designed in a place of perfection.
So talk to me about that. How do we. Well,
who do you put down for your mother if you're
gestated in a robot? What does that do to maternal bonds?
S19 (41:54):
Yeah. Well, yeah. You know, you're going to, you know, in, in,
in that future world, you're going to have people born
who aren't going to know who their parents really are, right? Uh,
who are who are, again, lacking that bond formation between
mother and child, which is so critical in terms of,
(42:14):
I think, our identity in growing up in a healthy,
psychologically well-adjusted way. But you're you're making human beings ultimately
to be nothing more than machines or to be nothing
more than really a bag full of chemicals. And you're
neglecting the fact that there is. There's an immaterial aspect
(42:34):
to our nature, right? That that is completely being overlooked.
I think when you start to treat human beings as
something that you can modify at will, and you're right,
it's a complete disregard for the elegant designs of the
of the human organism, uh, that God instituted, including this
(42:57):
whole process of of pregnancy when God commands human beings
to multiply and fill the earth. The whole idea is
that this is a process by which not only would
the human population grow, but the human population would grow
with people who uniquely bear God's image, bringing glory to God.
And this is all lost. I think when you start
(43:18):
thinking about human beings strictly in technological terms.
S1 (43:22):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Coming full circle back to
the biological aspect of this again. What about the relationship
between a mom and her pre-born child, what it does
to her system? Physiologically, that's beneficial. What it does to
the pre-born baby's body that's beneficial if you're feeding through
a hose to use the exact words that they talked
about in this tech article. That stuff can't be replicated
(43:45):
in a lab as of yet. So they create a
robot who can gestate, but the transmission of nutrients and
hormones and, uh, who knows what else God has coursing
through the veins that we don't fully understand at this point,
that isn't anywhere near being replicated, and $13,900 is not
going to buy you what God can do better.
S19 (44:05):
Yeah. Exactly right. That I couldn't agree more.
S1 (44:08):
Well, so how do we respond to this as Christians?
What should our reaction be to this kind of stuff?
You know, I don't want people to think that we
run for the hills and hide in the caves, but
I want to be a Berean. I want to test
all things here. How do we respond?
S19 (44:20):
Yeah, well, I think it becomes important that we boldly
proclaim this idea that human beings truly are made in
God's image, that that the design of human biology is
an optimal design, and that science really affirms the notion
that we are exceptional and that there is incredible benefit
(44:42):
to the mother and the child that accrue through the
pregnancy process.
S1 (44:48):
Yeah. Excellent. Thank you so much. We need to come
back together again soon. Let's talk more about what's in
your book, humans 2.0. I think that's so prescient for
the days and times in which we live. By the way,
if you all go to my information page, I've got
a link to the article so you can read this
for yourself. This isn't making it up. This is the future.
The creators of this thing want it to happen next year, 2026.
(45:09):
But more importantly, you need to tap into the resources
available to you as a thinking Christian, biblically and critically,
a thinking Christian, you need to know more about reasons
to Believe. So check it out at In the Market
with Janet Parshall. Thank you. Thanks, friends. We'll see you
next time.
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