July 29, 2025 • 44 mins
Today Marianne Howard will take us into deeper intimacy with Jesus, the Giver of rest. Jesus invites the weary and burdened to come to Him. She will take us on a journey to understanding genuine soul rest and how to achieve this rest while examining and modifying spiritual, personal, and professional priorities, in order to move to abundant living.
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S1 (00:00):
Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
and I truly hope you hear something that encourages edifies, equips, enlightens,
and gently but consistently pushes you out there into the
marketplace of ideas. But before you start to listen and
before you go to the marketplace, let me just tell
you about this month's truth tool. And it is a
perfect fit for both the marketplace and getting out there.
It's Ray Comfort's book. Why? Jesus? If you listen to
(00:22):
the broadcast with any regularity, you know we love Ray.
He is bold, unashamed of the gospel. And yet in
such a winsome way, he delivers a truth narrative to
the man in the street, so to speak. He's written
the book Why Jesus? To Teach You How to Walk Through,
by examples and through real conversations he's had on how
to share the gospel in exactly the same way. Listen,
(00:43):
we're called to go and tell. It's not an opt in,
opt out clause. That's where we're supposed to go. And
in truth, how can we keep this good news to ourselves?
So I want you to have Why Jesus as this
month's truth tool. So you'll get some fire in your
bones about going out and sharing the good news of
the gospel of Jesus Christ. We're listener supported radio. My
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(01:03):
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(01:25):
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Jesus 877 Janet 58 or online at In the Market
(01:45):
with Janet Parshall. Now please enjoy the broadcast.
S2 (01:51):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:53):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (01:55):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S5 (01:57):
Extremely rare safety move by a.
S4 (02:00):
17.
S6 (02:01):
Years the Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S5 (02:18):
Hi, friends.
S1 (02:19):
Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. A very
happy Wednesday to you. Hope you're having a terrific day.
I'm glad you're going to spend the hour with me.
Let me just remind you, I know I can't be
the only person feeling this, but you realize that Friday
is August 1st. We are all seeing the ads on TV, right?
For back to school supplies. It's like, know what happens
to summer, but it's almost August 1st. And why am
(02:41):
I pointing that out? Not just because I want to
talk about school supplies in the calendar, but because that
means at midnight tomorrow night, our truth tool for this
month gets put back on the shelf. And if you
do not yet have a copy of Ray Comfort's Why
Jesus Answering Life's Most important question. I want to encourage
you to do that because you have today and until
midnight tomorrow, and then this goes back on the shelf
(03:03):
and it becomes part of our truth tool history. Now,
I love this book. You hear Ray in a regular
basis just connected again with Ray. We are on the
books for another wonderful conversation coming up. Had a really
scary experience with an intruder in his ministry we're going
to talk about. So keep your eyes open for when
he's going to be on, and we'll talk about that
as well. He came up with another very creative track
to share the gospel, because Paul McCartney is going to
(03:26):
be touring around the United States. Boom. Laser beam. Ray
was right on that. He's got some specific tracks dealing
with Paul McCartney that, believe it or not, eventually lead
to the plan of salvation. So we got a lot
to talk about. But that's Ray. Is he really and
truly is unashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And
he does a superb job in teaching us how likewise
not to be ashamed. And so the most important question
(03:46):
that any human being is ever going to ask is
Why Jesus? Why is Jesus the only way? Why did
Jesus say that there's only one name under heaven whereby
men will be saved. Why did Jesus say that I
and the father am one? Why did Jesus say that?
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord,
and believe in your heart that God has raised him
from the dead, you will be saved? Why are all
those verses there that say it's Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, one
(04:10):
mediator between God and man, and that's Jesus Christ. So
it's not just another worldview. It is the only way
to the father. No one comes to the father but
by me quoting Jesus himself. So it's a question we
need to ask. But more importantly, it's a question that
whether it's been articulated in those two words or not,
every single person you come in contact with has that
(04:32):
question on their heart. Why? Because there's that God shaped void.
We were designed to answer that question. God put those
fingerprints in our hearts so we would seek him. Why?
Because he's a loving God. That's not willing that any
should perish. The choice is ours. But he wants to
do everything to woo us, to him. And knowing how
to give a reason for the hope that resides within
(04:53):
you is one of the ways in which people can
hear the good news. So why Jesus is a must
for everybody. I don't care if you're a brand new Christian,
or if you're considering accepting Christ as your savior, or
you're just considering who is this Jesus? Or you've walked
with the Lord for 50 years. This is a wonderful
way to go back and review again why Jesus said,
I am the way, the truth, and the life, and
(05:15):
no one comes to the father but by me. I
can't convey this very well in radio, but it's it's
a gift book. It looks like it has a leather
cover on it. It's the kind where it doesn't just
look like a paperback book sitting on your nightstand. It
is a livable book because the contents, quite frankly, from
my vantage point, are a gift. So if you don't
have a copy yet of why Jesus, just call 877
Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58. Ask for your copy.
(05:39):
A gift of any amount. We are listener supported. Radio.
My way of saying thank you. I'm going to send
that out to you. You can also give online in
the market with Janet Parshall. Scroll to the bottom of
the page. There's the cover of the book. Clicking on
same thing. Give a gift of any amount. I'm going
to send you a thank you of sending you the book. Why? Jesus,
by the way. Thursdays are big around here. That's when
(06:00):
my weekly newsletter comes out. Who gets the newsletter? Glad
you asked. My partial partners. Those are people who give
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And in addition to the truth tool, every month you
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877858877 Janet 58 or online at in the market with
(06:21):
Janet Parshall. Something big is happening in Australia. You've got
a whole bunch of countries that are sending troops in
anticipation of a war with China. Have a listen from
CBN news.
S7 (06:32):
Australia is hosting its largest ever military drill operation Talisman Sabre,
involving 35,000 troops from 19 countries.
S8 (06:42):
We're doing this to prepare for deterrence, to prepare for peace,
as well as to prepare for operating with our other teammates,
our allies.
S7 (06:50):
In addition to a show of force, it's meant to
strengthen how U.S. and allied forces work together side by
side in complex air and amphibious missions.
S8 (07:02):
When our adversaries see how easily we bring together all
these nations, this many folks, and we operate in a
extended exercise. They should see that we could quickly transmit
that into combat.
S7 (07:13):
The goal send a clear message to Beijing that any
move on Taiwan won't go unanswered.
S9 (07:20):
It's us saying to China, you're not just fighting Taiwan,
you're not just fighting Taiwan in the United States, but
you're fighting Taiwan, the United States, Japan, Australia. That, uh, China,
you're a big country. You can, but you're not able.
You're not going to be able to impose your will
on Taiwan because the rest of us will counter you.
S7 (07:43):
And in a historic move, the US Army fired its
new typhoon missile system in the western Pacific, striking a
sea target and showing China the region is well within
reach of U.S. precision firepower.
S9 (07:58):
Deterrence is two things. It's I have the capability to
stop you, and you understand that I am willing to
do it. That willingness to do it, that credible level
of deterrence comes from action, and that action is to
be present.
S7 (08:15):
A presence. Montgomery says China has spent decades trying to prevent.
S9 (08:21):
The Chinese have been spending aggressively over 30 years of
constant investment and development in their forces, with one aim
driving the United States out of the first and second
island chains.
S7 (08:32):
The U.S. has countered with an enlarged military footprint 55,000
troops in Japan, 28,000 in South Korea, almost 6500 in Guam,
along with a new marine base there and expanding access
in the Philippines, where new airfields and ports allow rapid
(08:53):
response and stealth F-35 deployments.
S9 (08:57):
What we're doing is trying to develop the Philippine ability
to confront China in their, uh, and their air and
maritime space.
S7 (09:06):
All this comes as China pushes aggressive claims over nearly
the entire South China Sea, including waters near the Philippines,
Malaysia and Vietnam.
S9 (09:18):
The Chinese treat their neighbors as vassal supplicant states. You know,
we're a big country. You're a small country. Be quiet.
S7 (09:27):
From Australia to Guam and the Philippines, the US and
its allies are drawing the line with a powerful display
of a united front. As Talisman Sabre wraps up, Washington
and its partners are hoping Beijing gets the message. George
Thomas CBN news.
S1 (09:46):
Something to pray about a lot. We'll be back. Street
evangelist Ray comfort has spent decades pointing people to Jesus,
and I want you to do the same. That's why
I've chosen why Jesus is this month's truth tool. Ray
shares proven methods for sharing your faith with love and
(10:08):
confidence to a lost and dying world. As for your
copy of Why Jesus, when you give a gift of
any amount in the market, call 877 Janet 58. That's
877 Janet 58 or go to in the market with
Janet Parshall. Remember when you read the part in Scripture
where Jesus says, come unto me, all ye who are weary,
and I will give you. Fill in the blank rest.
(10:32):
Why do you think the unconditional lover of our soul
underscored the fact that rest is so crucial? How can
you be still and know that I am God if
we're not resting? But yet. Fatigue. Spiritual fatigue is a
pandemic in so many respects. So we're going to talk
about how we can overcome spiritual fatigue this hour. Our
teacher is going to be Marianne Howard, who for the
(10:54):
last 20 years has been helping people, equipping them, mentoring them,
investing in what she calls transgenerational discipleship, I love that.
In other words, you take that torch, you pass it
on one generation to another. Her experience as a minister's
wife allows her to see the toll spiritual fatigue has
taken on leaders and lay workers. She happens to be
the co-host of the D-6 podcast. She regularly contributes to
(11:16):
D6 family blog and she's a passionate Bible teacher. Her
book Rest Overcoming Spiritual Fatigue is the cornerstone of our conversation. Marianne,
the warmest of welcomes. Thank you so very much for
being here, and I think I need to ask what
D6 is first for clarification.
S10 (11:33):
D6 family is an incredible organization that I work for,
and they're a publishing company, but they're also a conference
to help ministry leaders connect the church in the home
with the heartbeat of discipleship just to fulfill the the
mission and vision of Deuteronomy six. That's kind of how
it was built. Is D6 is built around the Shema
(11:54):
from Deuteronomy six to help connect the church in the home.
S1 (11:58):
Oh how cool! Okay, d6 Deuteronomy six. That makes perfect sense.
How neat! Well, I want to start first by talking
about fatigue, particularly spiritual fatigue, because people aren't going to
understand what you're going to teach us this hour if
we're not on the same lexicon. So when you talk
about fatigue and you qualify it as spiritual fatigue in particular,
what do you mean?
S10 (12:18):
Mhm. I think we are operating in a time where
we are overworked, under-rested and overcommitted and it's compromised our soul.
That place where God is at work inside of us
and our souls connection to God.
S1 (12:36):
Yeah. Yeah. Without a doubt. Why do we fall into
the fatigue trap?
S10 (12:41):
I think we idolize busyness. We idolize efficiency, speed, productivity, achievement, self-sufficiency,
and convenience. And all of these things get in the
way of staying close to God. And what's happening is
our value and our worth get attached to being in demand.
We get addicted to the need to be needed rather
(13:02):
than the need for God to move. And so we've
become very consumed with strategy, skill, and charisma, and we've
stopped emphasizing the soul side of leadership.
S1 (13:12):
Yeah, yeah. You know, that's interesting. Let me just give
you an anecdotal observation on that. You can imagine that
I plow through hundreds of books every single month, and
I get an overwhelming number of books that deal with leadership.
And I often think, how many books are they written
about following? Not that many. Right. So there's this clarion
call for leadership all the time, but I think there's
(13:33):
a theological quagmire under this that has to be addressed.
And that's the idea that somehow, if we've taken and
convoluted the passage that faith without works is dead. So
if we're not doing, doing, doing, doing, somehow we're not
a fruit bearing Christian that like a curriculum vitae in
the secular marketplace, I have to have the same kind
of curriculum vitae of production. Or God's going to think
(13:55):
I'm a lackadaisical Christian. Do you think I'm right?
S10 (13:57):
Mhm. Mhm. Absolutely. I think in leadership narratives, whether you're parenting,
working or managing in any form or fashion, daily leading
is draining. And the demand to give, lead and serve
people can deplete us. And an empty leader is not
a healthy leader. I firmly believe that a burned out
leader reproduces burned out people. And I point that to
(14:18):
Song of Solomon. One verse six, which I write about, says,
they made me keeper of the vineyard, but my own
vineyard I have not kept. We're really good at tending
to everybody else's yard. Figuratively, spiritually. Um, but then we
look at our own spiritual vineyard and there's neglect, there's weeds, there's.
We haven't spent time in the presence of God. You know,
(14:41):
allowing God's Word to nourish us. So we're pouring out
of an empty place.
S1 (14:45):
Yeah, absolutely. We get distracted too. You write about this
in the book. You start the chapter with a fabulous
quote from A.W. Tozer. We do get distracted. Why? Is
it because we're listening to the clarion call of the culture,
as opposed to that still small voice?
S10 (15:00):
Mhm. Great question. I recently read that that lately statistically
we've got the attention spans of goldfish and distractions. They
rob us of rest and they keep us from being
formed into his likeness. God is too easily forgotten. In
all the madness of our hectic lives. We become too busy,
(15:23):
too tired and overwhelmed and too entertained to care and distractions.
They keep us in mental chaos and they lure us
away from life giving habits. And I want to just
say James 114 I always go back to this. At
its root, distraction is self-seeking and self-motivated, and each distraction
is not a one size fits all enticement. It's unique
(15:45):
to you, according to James 114, because it says we
are lured and enticed by our own desires. So our
distractions often reveal what we love most, what we fear most,
and what we trust most. And might I add, if
self and distractions is our occupying our attention, you can
(16:08):
forget peace, joy and contentment.
S1 (16:10):
Mhm. Wow. Wow. Boy, I think you're so spot on
with that. But it's a tough message to hear because
I think I think there are a lot of people
kidding other people thinking they won't notice that I'm doing this.
So let me go back to the attention of your garden,
because there's something inherent in that I think, that needs
to be fleshed out. And that is, I think that
one of the sand traps, if I can put it
(16:31):
that way for leaders, is that because you've risen to
the level of being a leader, the basic disciplines of
maturing Christianity can be abandoned because after all, you're a leader, right?
So significant time in the world that priority of God,
family and everything else in that order can be waylaid.
Because after all, I'm a leader, so my behavior, my
(16:51):
choices are justifiable. If you agree with that, tell me
why that's dangerous. Thinking spiritually. Not just not even the
fatigue issue, but just spiritually. Why? That's dangerous. Dangerous?
S11 (17:00):
Well it's okay. It's very, very arrogant.
S10 (17:05):
And when.
S11 (17:07):
It's.
S10 (17:08):
Where pride is at its root, if you think that
you can lead without Christ, if he says in His Word,
apart from me, you can do nothing, and we've got
to take him at that word.
S1 (17:17):
Yeah. Couldn't agree more. The book is called Rest Overcoming
Spiritual Fatigue. I have to tell you, this is a
wonderful book for every single one of us to read
because you're all a leader in your own right and
in your own way, even if you're just a leader
around your kitchen table. So how do you make sure
you're not distracted? How do you keep the main thing,
the main thing and why? When you think about it,
why was God so interested in rest? He's God, he
(17:40):
created the world and he rested. This must be a
pretty big deal to God. Back after this. We're visiting
with Mary Ann Howard. She is a passionate teacher of
the scripture, a pastor's wife, and the co-host of the
(18:02):
D6 podcast, and regularly contributes to the D6 family blog.
We're talking about rest. This is an in some respects,
a very unpopular topic, because I think we've drifted into
this idea that as long as we're doing, somehow we're
pleasing the Lord rather than that ontological being. I borrowed
that term from John Eldredge. I think he did a
beautiful job of capturing it. It's just a matter of
(18:25):
being in the moment and knowing that God loves you, period.
Not comma. And then when you do all of these
other things, somehow you've earned his love. That sloppy Bible
teaching and I don't know where we've picked that up
along the way. So it's important that good teachers like
Mary Ann come along and really set the record straight again.
Let me go back to what we were just before
about the business with distractions, which I thought was good
(18:47):
because at the end of every chapter, and this is
what good teachers always do, they ask questions to see
if you've really owned the material, if it's yours now,
not something you've read on a page, and an exercise
that you challenge us to do is to take a
look at our calendar, talk to our friends on why
that's so important.
S10 (19:03):
Um, yes. This is the way that we fight distraction.
We've got to slow down. Number one, we've got to
slow down. Uh, I have a teenage driver, and I'm
constantly saying whoa, whoa, whoa when I get in the
car with him. And that's kind of God's slowing us down.
You know? We've got to slow down our pace so
that we can pay attention to the things of God.
(19:24):
You know, in Psalm 46, verse ten, it says, be
still and know that I am God. But when you
look at that whole context, the entire chapter, it's be
still so that you can know that I am God.
That slowing is important. It's an intentional pause to reverse
our disordered priorities, and it's a choice. So God will
not always speed up to catch up with us. He
(19:46):
wants us to slow down to his pace. Be still
so that you can know. Number two, we've got to
examine our habits. We've got to look at what's compromising
life giving habits that cultivate intimacy with Jesus. What are
those things? Are you grabbing your phone? Are you grabbing
the word? We sleep with our phones right by our faces.
And so, you know, my challenge to a group of
(20:07):
friends that were walking through the book together is plug
your phone in across the room and replace it with
God's Word. Let's reach for that every morning. And number three,
be attentive. Pay attention to what you pay attention to,
what has your attention, what you think about you care about,
and what you care about, what you're going to chase.
So really be attentive to what you're paying attention to.
(20:31):
And then last, practice listening. Unplug the noise and plug
into the presence of God. We have to create time
and space to listen.
S1 (20:40):
Yeah. Wow. Uh, somebody once said and it was something
obviously that resonated with me, they said, show me your
checkbook and I'll show you your priorities. Could not the
same thing be said about our calendar? Show me your
calendar and I'll show you your priorities. And there's just
something again. And I don't know, maybe it's because we've
stolen this from the world and thinking that hyper production is,
you know, um, it's laudable that that's what we need
(21:03):
to be doing is hyper producing, if I can use
that phrase in Christendom as well. And yet the blank spaces,
it seems to me, to our Heavenly Father as our,
if not more important than the places where everything is
already filled in.
S10 (21:16):
Absolutely. Absolutely. We've got to we've got to slow down
our pace because, to be honest with you, the pace
of your life will determine who's shepherding your soul, number one.
But also, we've got to make room. Because here's the
thing if we stay busy from start to finish and
say yes to everything, like, I like to teach with
(21:37):
this concept of our yesses and our nos and productivity
with a Jenga game, a giant Jenga game stacked somewhere,
and every time you say yes to something, you're pulling
from something else. And so, just like a Jenga game,
if you keep pulling from the bottom, it's going to collapse.
And that's what happens with all of our yeses and
our productivity and feeling the need to be needed and
(21:59):
building our own personal kingdoms to the point where. And
that's to me, a great tragedy, is we get so
busy building our own personal kingdoms that we we miss
his kingdom altogether.
S1 (22:10):
Yeah. Wow. Well, let me pause at that point. So
I made the point. Before you've quoted some scriptures, we
acknowledge that they're there. We look at the creation plan
on the seventh day, God rested. Well, that's an anthropomorphic argument.
He's spirits. So we superimpose the idea of resting, which
is a human act, a human characteristic. But God exemplified it. Why?
(22:31):
Why do you think that God wants us to pay
attention to the concept of rest?
S10 (22:36):
I think he wants us to work from rest and
not to it. You know, you think about and let
me just say in Scripture he declares, rest holy. He
declared he didn't declare a person holy. He declared the
Sabbath day holy. And I don't think we treat it
as holy. But I think he wants us to rest.
(22:58):
Then work. You know, he created the world, and then
he rested. Not because he needed to rest, but as
a model for us to practice. So I think he
wants us to fight for space, to rest and work
out of that rest. And just so you know, resting
is not just this self coddling, you know, nap. Yes.
Take a nap. Take a vacation. But the giver of
(23:20):
rest is Jesus. He is the one. He says, come
to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and
I will give you rest. I'm the giver of rest.
Stop reaching for all these other things that aren't going
to do what I only I can do.
S1 (23:35):
Mm. So let me ask you a question. Is rest
a diminishing of activities or is it a state of mind?
S10 (23:45):
Hmm. I think it's both. I think it's both. When
I teach, um, how to rest properly and how to
move towards intimacy with Christ, I. I talk about the
four S's. Silence, solitude, stillness and surrender. And so I
think it's both. I think we've got to create space.
(24:07):
We've got to stop the production, and we've got to
press in to know him. We've got to get aggressively
attentive to him.
S1 (24:14):
Yeah. Wow. Wow. This is such an important conversation, Marianne.
I'm so thankful for the book. It's called Rest Overcoming
Spiritual Fatigue. I've got a link, by the way, to
Marianne's website. It's right there on our information page and
the book we're discussing rests overcoming spiritual fatigue. That's where
we always put our resources. On the right hand side
of the page. You can click on that and work
your way through to figure out how you can get
(24:35):
your copy of this important book. Rest Overcoming Spiritual fatigue.
I'm so glad I have more time with Marianne Howard,
so we can talk about this important concept of rest
back after this. Anyone can read the news every day
(25:03):
and in the market, we're committed to telling the news
as seen through the lens of Scripture. As Christians, we
must be informed about what's going on in the world
and respond appropriately. When you become a partial partner, you
ensure that we continue here on your station, equipping the
church to discuss current events, using the Bible as our
solid foundation. Why not become a partial partner today? Call
877 Janet 58 or go online to in the market
(25:23):
with Janet Parshall. Mary Ann Howard is our guest. For
the last 20 years, she's been teaching and equipping and
mentoring people and investing in something she calls intergenerational discipleship,
which I think is great. It means passing the torch.
Should the Lord tarry, we train up the next generation.
That's biblical, by the way. It's a directive. She's, as
I noticed before, a minister's wife. She understands and has
(25:46):
seen firsthand how spiritual fatigue can impact ministries. And she's
the co-host of six podcasts and a regular contributor to
the D6 family blog. Her book is called Rest Overcoming
Spiritual Fatigue, and I'm so thankful we have more time, Marianne,
because I think this is a huge issue and it's
complex and it's not necessarily self revelatory. I think people
(26:07):
might be so into the world of busyness. They fail
to recognize the absence of rest, that somehow that voice
in their head that says, just keep going and doing
and going and going and going and doing is pleasing
to the Lord. And meanwhile we have intended, as you said,
so before, our own garden. So how much of this
is tied into our identity? Mm.
S10 (26:28):
So much. I think we get very, very. We we
start to allow our our jobs to define us and
our productivity and our efficiency. And we allow what we're
accomplishing to become what's defining us rather than Christ. And
I actually spend a chunk of a chapter really making
(26:53):
sure using Scripture as identity markers and building an identity wall,
because it's really easy to lose sight of who we
are as leaders. We can start thinking that our ministry
is who we are or our children, is who we are,
or our spouse is who we are or whatever it is,
and that is a tactic of the enemy. If he
can convince us that we are the amount of our productivity,
(27:19):
then he wins and then we're confused about who we are.
And Scripture, over and over and over again declares who
we are because of Christ.
S1 (27:28):
Yeah, yeah. So a good test, it seems to me,
as someone were, to say to you, so tell me
something about yourself. And if the first words I am
fill in the blank and it's tied to your job,
does that require some soul searching on our parts?
S10 (27:41):
Absolutely. Uh, the. That is a good evaluation to know
if your job is your lord and it's an oppressive Lord.
Let me just say that it's an oppressive Lord. You're.
And it's like until we stop and and think about
what is consuming us and why it's consuming us. We
don't even realize it's climbed up on a throne. And
(28:02):
it's a form of idolatry. Mhm.
S1 (28:04):
Yeah, absolutely. And you said that word on purpose and
I'm glad you did. And some people might say, wait
a minute. That doesn't make any sense. What I'm doing
in Christian ministry is for the Lord. It's my calling.
It's my mission. It's what I was gifted to do.
How in the world can that become idolatry? That is
such a salient point. Flesh that out a little bit
(28:25):
for our friends, if you would, please.
S10 (28:27):
Okay. A couple of things. Um, I think we, when
we think we know best and pride crawls into the
driver's seat of our leadership and of our ministry, and
it's basically we're operating with Christ instead of letting him
do it through us. We're in dangerous territory. Mhm. He
(28:49):
wants to do it for us, in us. But so
often we like to be the consultant to God. And
that's dangerous territory because we're getting out ahead of him
and we're, we're leading and that's not how he wants
us submitted and surrendered to him. I think also, I
just want to speak to this in light of your question.
(29:10):
I think, um, one of the things that spiritual fatigue can,
can create in US ministry leaders in particular, is self-sufficiency.
See autonomy. When we think we're the only one on
the planet who can accomplish something, or minister or minister
to someone that is a dangerous, dangerous domino, lie to believe.
(29:31):
And that is the last. That's why Jesus is saying,
come to me. Stop your self-sufficiency. Stop thinking that you
can do this on your own. Come to me. Let
me do this through you. And I want to just
say this. If the only definition of rest that we
know is the absence of work, we've missed God's gift
because he intended physical rest to lead to spiritual rest.
(29:53):
And all of those things help reorient our heart around.
He's king, he's Lord. He's going to do this through me.
S1 (30:01):
Wow. You just hit a responsive nerve. I want to
go back because that's also, I think, something to consider.
And I think it's also part of our problematic thinking.
So if the opposite of of work is not working
and that not working then constitutes rest, we really don't
have a grasp on the definition of what rest is.
So how should we be defining rest?
S10 (30:21):
He listen. He never said strive tirelessly. Yes, he never
said that. He he never said, you know, come to me,
all of you who are killing it and living your
best life, and I will. He he says, come to
me if you're weary and burdened, if you're at the
end of your your rope. I. I recently taught on
(30:42):
on weariness and spiritual fatigue using waffle House hash browns, scattered, smothered, covered, chunked.
And it just talks about scrutiny. And when you think
about that in leadership narratives, those are the perfect words
for fatigue and weariness. He doesn't say strive tirelessly. He
declared on the cross, it is finished. Yeah. And that
(31:05):
is how we define rest is we rest in the
finished work of Jesus. Not work and earn. He says
it is finished. It is done. The cross finished it.
The resurrection finished it. So that's a period. And so
many times can I just say in my life, so
(31:26):
many times where God has placed a period in my life.
The enemy wants to come behind with a question mark. Yes,
he does that in Scripture. He did it with Eve.
He did it with Jesus in the wilderness. He said,
if you are the Son of God, if if he
is the Son of God, there's no if about it.
And it's declarative. He said, it is finished. So could
(31:49):
I just say to every leader out there that's weary
right now, just know it is finished. Rest in the
finished work of Jesus. That's where your rest comes from.
Is his finished work that's declarative of who he is,
not who you are.
S1 (32:04):
Yeah. Okay, so let me go to the fact that
sometimes we as believers are linear block thinkers. So you
just use the word work. So explain then to the
friend who's listening that goes, well, Marianne, I don't get that.
I mean, I was told that faith without works is dead.
So in my busyness, in my doing for Christ, aren't
I bearing fruit? And isn't this the, if you will,
(32:27):
the authentication of of a vibrant, alive faith that I have?
S10 (32:33):
Absolutely. I think it's really easy for us to think that, well,
you know, I need to surrender and I need to rest,
and that means hop in the recliner and recline, you know,
into life. And that's not how we don't recline into holiness.
We don't recline into sanctification. It's active. So there is
active living. There's active obedience, but there it's a it's
(32:55):
a surrendered heart posture. One of the things I talk
about is that's going to help with this question is
we I get into the disciplines of intimacy with Christ,
and I get into silence, solitude, stillness, and surrender and
surrender in particular. That definition is to cease resistance and submit.
Let go and trust. Releasing control. So you're still actively working.
(33:20):
You're still actively serving. You're still actively leading. But you're
your heart is surrendered. And he is the one that's
doing the work through you. Yeah.
S1 (33:30):
So let me go to these four because I think
these are worthy of a little deeper conversation. Silence. Solitude. Stillness. Surrender.
So silence. You intimated earlier that that meant just turn
it all off. We're surrounded with a cacophony of noise.
And you made an excellent point about replacing the Word
of God with your phone, putting it on the other
side of the room. How many? In fact, I remember
a dear friend who said she went on a six
(33:53):
month sabbatical just to see where her priorities were. If
she got into the word before she checked her email,
because that was a real indicator of where she was.
So that silence is understandable. What about the solitude and
how does the solitude differ from loneliness?
S10 (34:06):
Oh great one. So I use an image of a
person in a in a hammock. Because the thing is,
in leadership narratives, we are always around people. We're in
the business of human development and discipleship, and we're always
around people. And so the discipline of solitude is to
be alone and turn away from human interaction and external
distractions with the purpose of refining the soul. You're not isolating.
(34:31):
You're coming away to be with Jesus. You're coming to
a way to be with him. And we've got to
get away from the noise and the people if we're
going to hear God. I mean, we just do. We've
got to separate and come away from the pressure of
people and plug into the presence of God and be
with him and enjoy time with him and not avoid it.
(34:54):
That's one of the things that I've recently thought about
in why we fill our lives up with so much. It's,
you know, everyone deals with pressure in one of two ways.
Avoidance or control. Escape or control. And so what we've
got to do is we've got to zone in and go,
what do I turn to? Do I escape on my
(35:15):
phone and get on my game and escape reality, or
am I trying? Do I bear down and try to control?
And what solitude does is it kind of helps us
take our like, move back and step away and be
with him. Be alone with Christ. Remember, Christ is relational,
not just transactional. He's relational. He's not transactional. He's relational.
(35:36):
He wants a relationship with you. When Jesus died, he
tore that veil from top to bottom. And that invites
us into intimacy. And I will tell you, there is
a difference between proximity and intimacy. Proximity is is standing
out here. Standing away from intimacy is a pressing in.
(35:56):
It's closeness. It's close connection. And we've got to be careful.
He invites us to the table to feast with him.
He doesn't want us crawling around on the floor picking
up crumbs.
S1 (36:07):
Yeah. Wow. So good. On the other side, I do
want to talk about stillness and surrender. But just to
your point about solitude, for me, one of the things
I've learned is that there is a contentedness in solitude,
which is the distinctive between solitude and loneliness. Loneliness. You
have no sense that anyone's with you at all. Solitude,
as you just pointed out, is being with him. So
(36:28):
there really isn't a lone isolation in solitude. It's a
contentment because you're in his presence. When we come back,
let's talk about stillness and surrender. This is a wonderful
little book that really gets you to do a deep
dive into you in a personal inventory. What are your priorities?
How are you taking this treasure of time and using
it for him? Are you including real rest back after this?
(37:01):
The world needs hope and we have the greatest news
ever told. But how do we share it effectively? That's
why I've chosen Why Jesus by Ray comfort is this
month's truth tool. Transform your approach to evangelism through step
by step guidance and real life examples. As for your
copy of Why Jesus, when you give a gift of
any amount to in the market, call 877 Janet 58.
(37:21):
That's 877 Janet 58 or go to in the market
with Janet Parshall. Visiting with Marianne Howard, who's passionate about
teaching the Word of God and mentoring others to grow
up in him. She's written a fabulous book called Rest
Overcoming Spiritual Fatigue. And we were talking about, for Christian, uh, disciplines. Now,
(37:42):
that's a word, by the way, that the patriarchs of
old used to use on a regular basis. We've shied
away from it somehow. Either we misunderstand the word discipline
like we think we're going to be spanked, so we
stay away from it, or we don't have the wherewithal
to be disciplined enough to practice one of the disciplines.
So I'm so thankful that this is working back into
our verbiage as followers of Jesus Christ. So we've talked
(38:05):
a bit about silence and solitude. Stillness and surrender are
the other twos. Now stillness. It's a poetic concept, but
I'm sure that there are a lot of people who
can't say. I don't draw the distinction between silence and stillness.
What's the distinction?
S10 (38:20):
It's a stop. Cease and desist. Make room for listening.
It gives us the freedom to observe, and it opens
us to peace and invites us to know our limitedness
and God's vastness. Here's the thing silence, solitude, stillness and surrender.
(38:40):
The opposite of those thinking about what we've been talking
about with spiritual fatigue and burnout and all the things
in the productivity and the need and identity. Think about
the opposite of silence is noise. The opposite of solitude
is you're constantly with people. The opposite of stillness is
busyness and productivity. And the opposite of surrender is control.
(39:03):
And so that's what these disciplines do, is they reorient
us to God's vastness and our limitedness. That's what that's
what it helps us to do. And so stillness is
about stopping. It's it's be still. And that is a
rebuke in Scripture. Psalm 46, verse ten. It's a rebuke
to say, stop moving so that you can know that
(39:25):
I am God. So we've got to silence the noise.
We've so we get when we when we teach this,
we give tangible earplugs as the tangible reminder. It's a
hand on teachable, hands on teachable thing. So you're holding
those earplugs because you're silencing the noise. Solitude. You're coming
away from the demand of people stillness. You're stopping. You're
(39:49):
stopping the movement, the going, the productivity, the movement, all
of those things. You're stopping it so that you can
make room to know God. And then the discipline of surrender,
which is to submit, to let go and to trust.
S1 (40:05):
And that's risky, is it not? Because if when we
talked about this earlier, if the busyness is inexorably tied
to your identity, if you've made this an idol, if
the core of this is really self centeredness, the surrender
might be, if you're in that cobweb at all, it
might be the most difficult of all, because you really
have to allow your significance, your worth, your value to
(40:28):
be in him. Acts 17. And for some people, that's
not sufficient. It should be more than sufficient for all
of us. But the surrender says, if I never did
anything in any way, shape or form that identified me
as a leader going forward, I am absolutely whole, content
and at peace because I am in him. In him
(40:48):
we live and move and have our being. So how
does one sort of develop, if I can put it
this way, the spiritual muscle to surrender.
S10 (40:56):
Mm mm. I think it's important for us to understand
that we're not only what we offer, but how we worship, honor,
and obey him. And so it really does come down
to what do you believe about God? Do you believe
that he's Lord? Do you believe that he's the King
of your life, that he sits enthroned? Um, and so
(41:17):
that's really what that leaves that open for. And that's
the question that that you've got to whatever you're wrestling with.
We we recently did a, a conference and we went
through the hokey pokey back in the 80s. We would
go to the skating rink and literally skate in circles,
but we would do the hokey pokey, and you put
your right arm in, you put your right arm out,
you put your right arm in and you shake it
all about. You do the hokey pokey and you turn
(41:39):
yourself around. That's what it's all about. But the point
in that is, so many times we're playing the hokey
pokey with God. It's we put our ministry in, we
pull our or we put our family in, we pull
our family out. We put whatever it is. Think about
what it is in your life. What are you putting
in and what are you trying to pull back from God?
At the end of the day, you've got to trust
(42:00):
him with it. He's worthy of it. He is going
to take it and do something with it that that
you can't even imagine. Um, and so it really comes
down to what do you believe about God? But to
be honest with you, you've got to practice the silence,
solitude and stillness to even be able to surrender. Those
all build.
S1 (42:19):
Um, the intersection between all of those. Wow. So many
questions I want to ask you in an hour. That's
gone far too quickly, but is, my mom would say
has been a delicious conversation. You make the statement in
the book, and you quote another two about this idea
of you cannot hurry and love. Well, it's an intriguing idea.
Talk to me about that.
S10 (42:39):
When we are in a hurry. The more you increase
the speed of your life, your capacity to love others
well is going to be compromised. And what happens is
hurry will cause you to miss the needs of those
around you. And so it makes relationships shallow. And so
we've got to slow down to see people when I'm.
if I'm in a rush season and I'm going and
(43:01):
going and doing this, that and the other and I'm
constantly looking at my phone and constantly checking notifications, but
I'm also trying to have lunch with my best friend.
How does she feel valued in that? She doesn't. And
so the pace of our life, we've got to slow
down to see people. That's the pace of Jesus.
S3 (43:17):
Wow.
S1 (43:18):
So you've practiced this in your own life. Did you
have periods where you thought, I can't do this, or
was it an easy decision to put these disciplines into place?
S10 (43:28):
Most difficult thing I've done. The book is really about
my resistance to rest. Just so you know, it's my
own vulnerable story of my resistance to rest. It was
very difficult, but very worth it. If you're burnout and
you're dangling in spiritual fatigue, these four disciplines will help
you significantly.
S1 (43:48):
Wow. Wow. So you've not looked back at all. And
if you can do it, then the rest of us
can do it. One last quick question. Has it changed
you and your relationship with the Lord?
S10 (43:59):
Absolutely. Less anxiety, less chaos. More focus. Because he's the
giver of rest. I know where to go for it.
I wasn't going to the right things to get rest.
We have to go to the person of Jesus for rest.
He's the only one who can give it. And it's.
It will change your life and it will change the world.
Because this world is watching us and who we trust
(44:22):
and who we walk with and who we surrender to. Yeah.
S1 (44:25):
Well, that last statement that you made, Marianne, makes the
whole reading of the book compelling and the whole concept
of putting these four disciplines into place very appealing. Thank you. Um,
it's a different kind of conversation than what we've heard
in the church over the last several decades. It's all
about leadership, leadership, leadership. And you're saying, wait a minute,
who are you going to? Who do you want to
(44:46):
be with? Who carries your burdens? Thank you, Marianne, for
a wonderful conversation. The book, again, is called Rest Overcoming
Spiritual Fatigue. See you next time, friends.
Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
and I truly hope you hear something that encourages edifies, equips, enlightens,
and gently but consistently pushes you out there into the
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perfect fit for both the marketplace and getting out there.
It's Ray Comfort's book. Why? Jesus? If you listen to
(00:22):
the broadcast with any regularity, you know we love Ray.
He is bold, unashamed of the gospel. And yet in
such a winsome way, he delivers a truth narrative to
the man in the street, so to speak. He's written
the book Why Jesus? To Teach You How to Walk Through,
by examples and through real conversations he's had on how
to share the gospel in exactly the same way. Listen,
(00:43):
we're called to go and tell. It's not an opt in,
opt out clause. That's where we're supposed to go. And
in truth, how can we keep this good news to ourselves?
So I want you to have Why Jesus as this
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(01:03):
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(01:25):
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(01:45):
with Janet Parshall. Now please enjoy the broadcast.
S2 (01:51):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:53):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (01:55):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S5 (01:57):
Extremely rare safety move by a.
S4 (02:00):
17.
S6 (02:01):
Years the Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S5 (02:18):
Hi, friends.
S1 (02:19):
Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall. A very
happy Wednesday to you. Hope you're having a terrific day.
I'm glad you're going to spend the hour with me.
Let me just remind you, I know I can't be
the only person feeling this, but you realize that Friday
is August 1st. We are all seeing the ads on TV, right?
For back to school supplies. It's like, know what happens
to summer, but it's almost August 1st. And why am
(02:41):
I pointing that out? Not just because I want to
talk about school supplies in the calendar, but because that
means at midnight tomorrow night, our truth tool for this
month gets put back on the shelf. And if you
do not yet have a copy of Ray Comfort's Why
Jesus Answering Life's Most important question. I want to encourage
you to do that because you have today and until
midnight tomorrow, and then this goes back on the shelf
(03:03):
and it becomes part of our truth tool history. Now,
I love this book. You hear Ray in a regular
basis just connected again with Ray. We are on the
books for another wonderful conversation coming up. Had a really
scary experience with an intruder in his ministry we're going
to talk about. So keep your eyes open for when
he's going to be on, and we'll talk about that
as well. He came up with another very creative track
to share the gospel, because Paul McCartney is going to
(03:26):
be touring around the United States. Boom. Laser beam. Ray
was right on that. He's got some specific tracks dealing
with Paul McCartney that, believe it or not, eventually lead
to the plan of salvation. So we got a lot
to talk about. But that's Ray. Is he really and
truly is unashamed of the gospel of Jesus Christ. And
he does a superb job in teaching us how likewise
not to be ashamed. And so the most important question
(03:46):
that any human being is ever going to ask is
Why Jesus? Why is Jesus the only way? Why did
Jesus say that there's only one name under heaven whereby
men will be saved. Why did Jesus say that I
and the father am one? Why did Jesus say that?
If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord,
and believe in your heart that God has raised him
from the dead, you will be saved? Why are all
those verses there that say it's Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, one
(04:10):
mediator between God and man, and that's Jesus Christ. So
it's not just another worldview. It is the only way
to the father. No one comes to the father but
by me quoting Jesus himself. So it's a question we
need to ask. But more importantly, it's a question that
whether it's been articulated in those two words or not,
every single person you come in contact with has that
(04:32):
question on their heart. Why? Because there's that God shaped void.
We were designed to answer that question. God put those
fingerprints in our hearts so we would seek him. Why?
Because he's a loving God. That's not willing that any
should perish. The choice is ours. But he wants to
do everything to woo us, to him. And knowing how
to give a reason for the hope that resides within
(04:53):
you is one of the ways in which people can
hear the good news. So why Jesus is a must
for everybody. I don't care if you're a brand new Christian,
or if you're considering accepting Christ as your savior, or
you're just considering who is this Jesus? Or you've walked
with the Lord for 50 years. This is a wonderful
way to go back and review again why Jesus said,
I am the way, the truth, and the life, and
(05:15):
no one comes to the father but by me. I
can't convey this very well in radio, but it's it's
a gift book. It looks like it has a leather
cover on it. It's the kind where it doesn't just
look like a paperback book sitting on your nightstand. It
is a livable book because the contents, quite frankly, from
my vantage point, are a gift. So if you don't
have a copy yet of why Jesus, just call 877
Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58. Ask for your copy.
(05:39):
A gift of any amount. We are listener supported. Radio.
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same thing. Give a gift of any amount. I'm going
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by the way. Thursdays are big around here. That's when
(06:00):
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(06:21):
Janet Parshall. Something big is happening in Australia. You've got
a whole bunch of countries that are sending troops in
anticipation of a war with China. Have a listen from
CBN news.
S7 (06:32):
Australia is hosting its largest ever military drill operation Talisman Sabre,
involving 35,000 troops from 19 countries.
S8 (06:42):
We're doing this to prepare for deterrence, to prepare for peace,
as well as to prepare for operating with our other teammates,
our allies.
S7 (06:50):
In addition to a show of force, it's meant to
strengthen how U.S. and allied forces work together side by
side in complex air and amphibious missions.
S8 (07:02):
When our adversaries see how easily we bring together all
these nations, this many folks, and we operate in a
extended exercise. They should see that we could quickly transmit
that into combat.
S7 (07:13):
The goal send a clear message to Beijing that any
move on Taiwan won't go unanswered.
S9 (07:20):
It's us saying to China, you're not just fighting Taiwan,
you're not just fighting Taiwan in the United States, but
you're fighting Taiwan, the United States, Japan, Australia. That, uh, China,
you're a big country. You can, but you're not able.
You're not going to be able to impose your will
on Taiwan because the rest of us will counter you.
S7 (07:43):
And in a historic move, the US Army fired its
new typhoon missile system in the western Pacific, striking a
sea target and showing China the region is well within
reach of U.S. precision firepower.
S9 (07:58):
Deterrence is two things. It's I have the capability to
stop you, and you understand that I am willing to
do it. That willingness to do it, that credible level
of deterrence comes from action, and that action is to
be present.
S7 (08:15):
A presence. Montgomery says China has spent decades trying to prevent.
S9 (08:21):
The Chinese have been spending aggressively over 30 years of
constant investment and development in their forces, with one aim
driving the United States out of the first and second
island chains.
S7 (08:32):
The U.S. has countered with an enlarged military footprint 55,000
troops in Japan, 28,000 in South Korea, almost 6500 in Guam,
along with a new marine base there and expanding access
in the Philippines, where new airfields and ports allow rapid
(08:53):
response and stealth F-35 deployments.
S9 (08:57):
What we're doing is trying to develop the Philippine ability
to confront China in their, uh, and their air and
maritime space.
S7 (09:06):
All this comes as China pushes aggressive claims over nearly
the entire South China Sea, including waters near the Philippines,
Malaysia and Vietnam.
S9 (09:18):
The Chinese treat their neighbors as vassal supplicant states. You know,
we're a big country. You're a small country. Be quiet.
S7 (09:27):
From Australia to Guam and the Philippines, the US and
its allies are drawing the line with a powerful display
of a united front. As Talisman Sabre wraps up, Washington
and its partners are hoping Beijing gets the message. George
Thomas CBN news.
S1 (09:46):
Something to pray about a lot. We'll be back. Street
evangelist Ray comfort has spent decades pointing people to Jesus,
and I want you to do the same. That's why
I've chosen why Jesus is this month's truth tool. Ray
shares proven methods for sharing your faith with love and
(10:08):
confidence to a lost and dying world. As for your
copy of Why Jesus, when you give a gift of
any amount in the market, call 877 Janet 58. That's
877 Janet 58 or go to in the market with
Janet Parshall. Remember when you read the part in Scripture
where Jesus says, come unto me, all ye who are weary,
and I will give you. Fill in the blank rest.
(10:32):
Why do you think the unconditional lover of our soul
underscored the fact that rest is so crucial? How can
you be still and know that I am God if
we're not resting? But yet. Fatigue. Spiritual fatigue is a
pandemic in so many respects. So we're going to talk
about how we can overcome spiritual fatigue this hour. Our
teacher is going to be Marianne Howard, who for the
(10:54):
last 20 years has been helping people, equipping them, mentoring them,
investing in what she calls transgenerational discipleship, I love that.
In other words, you take that torch, you pass it
on one generation to another. Her experience as a minister's
wife allows her to see the toll spiritual fatigue has
taken on leaders and lay workers. She happens to be
the co-host of the D-6 podcast. She regularly contributes to
(11:16):
D6 family blog and she's a passionate Bible teacher. Her
book Rest Overcoming Spiritual Fatigue is the cornerstone of our conversation. Marianne,
the warmest of welcomes. Thank you so very much for
being here, and I think I need to ask what
D6 is first for clarification.
S10 (11:33):
D6 family is an incredible organization that I work for,
and they're a publishing company, but they're also a conference
to help ministry leaders connect the church in the home
with the heartbeat of discipleship just to fulfill the the
mission and vision of Deuteronomy six. That's kind of how
it was built. Is D6 is built around the Shema
(11:54):
from Deuteronomy six to help connect the church in the home.
S1 (11:58):
Oh how cool! Okay, d6 Deuteronomy six. That makes perfect sense.
How neat! Well, I want to start first by talking
about fatigue, particularly spiritual fatigue, because people aren't going to
understand what you're going to teach us this hour if
we're not on the same lexicon. So when you talk
about fatigue and you qualify it as spiritual fatigue in particular,
what do you mean?
S10 (12:18):
Mhm. I think we are operating in a time where
we are overworked, under-rested and overcommitted and it's compromised our soul.
That place where God is at work inside of us
and our souls connection to God.
S1 (12:36):
Yeah. Yeah. Without a doubt. Why do we fall into
the fatigue trap?
S10 (12:41):
I think we idolize busyness. We idolize efficiency, speed, productivity, achievement, self-sufficiency,
and convenience. And all of these things get in the
way of staying close to God. And what's happening is
our value and our worth get attached to being in demand.
We get addicted to the need to be needed rather
(13:02):
than the need for God to move. And so we've
become very consumed with strategy, skill, and charisma, and we've
stopped emphasizing the soul side of leadership.
S1 (13:12):
Yeah, yeah. You know, that's interesting. Let me just give
you an anecdotal observation on that. You can imagine that
I plow through hundreds of books every single month, and
I get an overwhelming number of books that deal with leadership.
And I often think, how many books are they written
about following? Not that many. Right. So there's this clarion
call for leadership all the time, but I think there's
(13:33):
a theological quagmire under this that has to be addressed.
And that's the idea that somehow, if we've taken and
convoluted the passage that faith without works is dead. So
if we're not doing, doing, doing, doing, somehow we're not
a fruit bearing Christian that like a curriculum vitae in
the secular marketplace, I have to have the same kind
of curriculum vitae of production. Or God's going to think
(13:55):
I'm a lackadaisical Christian. Do you think I'm right?
S10 (13:57):
Mhm. Mhm. Absolutely. I think in leadership narratives, whether you're parenting,
working or managing in any form or fashion, daily leading
is draining. And the demand to give, lead and serve
people can deplete us. And an empty leader is not
a healthy leader. I firmly believe that a burned out
leader reproduces burned out people. And I point that to
(14:18):
Song of Solomon. One verse six, which I write about, says,
they made me keeper of the vineyard, but my own
vineyard I have not kept. We're really good at tending
to everybody else's yard. Figuratively, spiritually. Um, but then we
look at our own spiritual vineyard and there's neglect, there's weeds, there's.
We haven't spent time in the presence of God. You know,
(14:41):
allowing God's Word to nourish us. So we're pouring out
of an empty place.
S1 (14:45):
Yeah, absolutely. We get distracted too. You write about this
in the book. You start the chapter with a fabulous
quote from A.W. Tozer. We do get distracted. Why? Is
it because we're listening to the clarion call of the culture,
as opposed to that still small voice?
S10 (15:00):
Mhm. Great question. I recently read that that lately statistically
we've got the attention spans of goldfish and distractions. They
rob us of rest and they keep us from being
formed into his likeness. God is too easily forgotten. In
all the madness of our hectic lives. We become too busy,
(15:23):
too tired and overwhelmed and too entertained to care and distractions.
They keep us in mental chaos and they lure us
away from life giving habits. And I want to just
say James 114 I always go back to this. At
its root, distraction is self-seeking and self-motivated, and each distraction
is not a one size fits all enticement. It's unique
(15:45):
to you, according to James 114, because it says we
are lured and enticed by our own desires. So our
distractions often reveal what we love most, what we fear most,
and what we trust most. And might I add, if
self and distractions is our occupying our attention, you can
(16:08):
forget peace, joy and contentment.
S1 (16:10):
Mhm. Wow. Wow. Boy, I think you're so spot on
with that. But it's a tough message to hear because
I think I think there are a lot of people
kidding other people thinking they won't notice that I'm doing this.
So let me go back to the attention of your garden,
because there's something inherent in that I think, that needs
to be fleshed out. And that is, I think that
one of the sand traps, if I can put it
(16:31):
that way for leaders, is that because you've risen to
the level of being a leader, the basic disciplines of
maturing Christianity can be abandoned because after all, you're a leader, right?
So significant time in the world that priority of God,
family and everything else in that order can be waylaid.
Because after all, I'm a leader, so my behavior, my
(16:51):
choices are justifiable. If you agree with that, tell me
why that's dangerous. Thinking spiritually. Not just not even the
fatigue issue, but just spiritually. Why? That's dangerous. Dangerous?
S11 (17:00):
Well it's okay. It's very, very arrogant.
S10 (17:05):
And when.
S11 (17:07):
It's.
S10 (17:08):
Where pride is at its root, if you think that
you can lead without Christ, if he says in His Word,
apart from me, you can do nothing, and we've got
to take him at that word.
S1 (17:17):
Yeah. Couldn't agree more. The book is called Rest Overcoming
Spiritual Fatigue. I have to tell you, this is a
wonderful book for every single one of us to read
because you're all a leader in your own right and
in your own way, even if you're just a leader
around your kitchen table. So how do you make sure
you're not distracted? How do you keep the main thing,
the main thing and why? When you think about it,
why was God so interested in rest? He's God, he
(17:40):
created the world and he rested. This must be a
pretty big deal to God. Back after this. We're visiting
with Mary Ann Howard. She is a passionate teacher of
the scripture, a pastor's wife, and the co-host of the
(18:02):
D6 podcast, and regularly contributes to the D6 family blog.
We're talking about rest. This is an in some respects,
a very unpopular topic, because I think we've drifted into
this idea that as long as we're doing, somehow we're
pleasing the Lord rather than that ontological being. I borrowed
that term from John Eldredge. I think he did a
beautiful job of capturing it. It's just a matter of
(18:25):
being in the moment and knowing that God loves you, period.
Not comma. And then when you do all of these
other things, somehow you've earned his love. That sloppy Bible
teaching and I don't know where we've picked that up
along the way. So it's important that good teachers like
Mary Ann come along and really set the record straight again.
Let me go back to what we were just before
about the business with distractions, which I thought was good
(18:47):
because at the end of every chapter, and this is
what good teachers always do, they ask questions to see
if you've really owned the material, if it's yours now,
not something you've read on a page, and an exercise
that you challenge us to do is to take a
look at our calendar, talk to our friends on why
that's so important.
S10 (19:03):
Um, yes. This is the way that we fight distraction.
We've got to slow down. Number one, we've got to
slow down. Uh, I have a teenage driver, and I'm
constantly saying whoa, whoa, whoa when I get in the
car with him. And that's kind of God's slowing us down.
You know? We've got to slow down our pace so
that we can pay attention to the things of God.
(19:24):
You know, in Psalm 46, verse ten, it says, be
still and know that I am God. But when you
look at that whole context, the entire chapter, it's be
still so that you can know that I am God.
That slowing is important. It's an intentional pause to reverse
our disordered priorities, and it's a choice. So God will
not always speed up to catch up with us. He
(19:46):
wants us to slow down to his pace. Be still
so that you can know. Number two, we've got to
examine our habits. We've got to look at what's compromising
life giving habits that cultivate intimacy with Jesus. What are
those things? Are you grabbing your phone? Are you grabbing
the word? We sleep with our phones right by our faces.
And so, you know, my challenge to a group of
(20:07):
friends that were walking through the book together is plug
your phone in across the room and replace it with
God's Word. Let's reach for that every morning. And number three,
be attentive. Pay attention to what you pay attention to,
what has your attention, what you think about you care about,
and what you care about, what you're going to chase.
So really be attentive to what you're paying attention to.
(20:31):
And then last, practice listening. Unplug the noise and plug
into the presence of God. We have to create time
and space to listen.
S1 (20:40):
Yeah. Wow. Uh, somebody once said and it was something
obviously that resonated with me, they said, show me your
checkbook and I'll show you your priorities. Could not the
same thing be said about our calendar? Show me your
calendar and I'll show you your priorities. And there's just
something again. And I don't know, maybe it's because we've
stolen this from the world and thinking that hyper production is,
you know, um, it's laudable that that's what we need
(21:03):
to be doing is hyper producing, if I can use
that phrase in Christendom as well. And yet the blank spaces,
it seems to me, to our Heavenly Father as our,
if not more important than the places where everything is
already filled in.
S10 (21:16):
Absolutely. Absolutely. We've got to we've got to slow down
our pace because, to be honest with you, the pace
of your life will determine who's shepherding your soul, number one.
But also, we've got to make room. Because here's the
thing if we stay busy from start to finish and
say yes to everything, like, I like to teach with
(21:37):
this concept of our yesses and our nos and productivity
with a Jenga game, a giant Jenga game stacked somewhere,
and every time you say yes to something, you're pulling
from something else. And so, just like a Jenga game,
if you keep pulling from the bottom, it's going to collapse.
And that's what happens with all of our yeses and
our productivity and feeling the need to be needed and
(21:59):
building our own personal kingdoms to the point where. And
that's to me, a great tragedy, is we get so
busy building our own personal kingdoms that we we miss
his kingdom altogether.
S1 (22:10):
Yeah. Wow. Well, let me pause at that point. So
I made the point. Before you've quoted some scriptures, we
acknowledge that they're there. We look at the creation plan
on the seventh day, God rested. Well, that's an anthropomorphic argument.
He's spirits. So we superimpose the idea of resting, which
is a human act, a human characteristic. But God exemplified it. Why?
(22:31):
Why do you think that God wants us to pay
attention to the concept of rest?
S10 (22:36):
I think he wants us to work from rest and
not to it. You know, you think about and let
me just say in Scripture he declares, rest holy. He
declared he didn't declare a person holy. He declared the
Sabbath day holy. And I don't think we treat it
as holy. But I think he wants us to rest.
(22:58):
Then work. You know, he created the world, and then
he rested. Not because he needed to rest, but as
a model for us to practice. So I think he
wants us to fight for space, to rest and work
out of that rest. And just so you know, resting
is not just this self coddling, you know, nap. Yes.
Take a nap. Take a vacation. But the giver of
(23:20):
rest is Jesus. He is the one. He says, come
to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and
I will give you rest. I'm the giver of rest.
Stop reaching for all these other things that aren't going
to do what I only I can do.
S1 (23:35):
Mm. So let me ask you a question. Is rest
a diminishing of activities or is it a state of mind?
S10 (23:45):
Hmm. I think it's both. I think it's both. When
I teach, um, how to rest properly and how to
move towards intimacy with Christ, I. I talk about the
four S's. Silence, solitude, stillness and surrender. And so I
think it's both. I think we've got to create space.
(24:07):
We've got to stop the production, and we've got to
press in to know him. We've got to get aggressively
attentive to him.
S1 (24:14):
Yeah. Wow. Wow. This is such an important conversation, Marianne.
I'm so thankful for the book. It's called Rest Overcoming
Spiritual Fatigue. I've got a link, by the way, to
Marianne's website. It's right there on our information page and
the book we're discussing rests overcoming spiritual fatigue. That's where
we always put our resources. On the right hand side
of the page. You can click on that and work
your way through to figure out how you can get
(24:35):
your copy of this important book. Rest Overcoming Spiritual fatigue.
I'm so glad I have more time with Marianne Howard,
so we can talk about this important concept of rest
back after this. Anyone can read the news every day
(25:03):
and in the market, we're committed to telling the news
as seen through the lens of Scripture. As Christians, we
must be informed about what's going on in the world
and respond appropriately. When you become a partial partner, you
ensure that we continue here on your station, equipping the
church to discuss current events, using the Bible as our
solid foundation. Why not become a partial partner today? Call
877 Janet 58 or go online to in the market
(25:23):
with Janet Parshall. Mary Ann Howard is our guest. For
the last 20 years, she's been teaching and equipping and
mentoring people and investing in something she calls intergenerational discipleship,
which I think is great. It means passing the torch.
Should the Lord tarry, we train up the next generation.
That's biblical, by the way. It's a directive. She's, as
I noticed before, a minister's wife. She understands and has
(25:46):
seen firsthand how spiritual fatigue can impact ministries. And she's
the co-host of six podcasts and a regular contributor to
the D6 family blog. Her book is called Rest Overcoming
Spiritual Fatigue, and I'm so thankful we have more time, Marianne,
because I think this is a huge issue and it's
complex and it's not necessarily self revelatory. I think people
(26:07):
might be so into the world of busyness. They fail
to recognize the absence of rest, that somehow that voice
in their head that says, just keep going and doing
and going and going and going and doing is pleasing
to the Lord. And meanwhile we have intended, as you said,
so before, our own garden. So how much of this
is tied into our identity? Mm.
S10 (26:28):
So much. I think we get very, very. We we
start to allow our our jobs to define us and
our productivity and our efficiency. And we allow what we're
accomplishing to become what's defining us rather than Christ. And
I actually spend a chunk of a chapter really making
(26:53):
sure using Scripture as identity markers and building an identity wall,
because it's really easy to lose sight of who we
are as leaders. We can start thinking that our ministry
is who we are or our children, is who we are,
or our spouse is who we are or whatever it is,
and that is a tactic of the enemy. If he
can convince us that we are the amount of our productivity,
(27:19):
then he wins and then we're confused about who we are.
And Scripture, over and over and over again declares who
we are because of Christ.
S1 (27:28):
Yeah, yeah. So a good test, it seems to me,
as someone were, to say to you, so tell me
something about yourself. And if the first words I am
fill in the blank and it's tied to your job,
does that require some soul searching on our parts?
S10 (27:41):
Absolutely. Uh, the. That is a good evaluation to know
if your job is your lord and it's an oppressive Lord.
Let me just say that it's an oppressive Lord. You're.
And it's like until we stop and and think about
what is consuming us and why it's consuming us. We
don't even realize it's climbed up on a throne. And
(28:02):
it's a form of idolatry. Mhm.
S1 (28:04):
Yeah, absolutely. And you said that word on purpose and
I'm glad you did. And some people might say, wait
a minute. That doesn't make any sense. What I'm doing
in Christian ministry is for the Lord. It's my calling.
It's my mission. It's what I was gifted to do.
How in the world can that become idolatry? That is
such a salient point. Flesh that out a little bit
(28:25):
for our friends, if you would, please.
S10 (28:27):
Okay. A couple of things. Um, I think we, when
we think we know best and pride crawls into the
driver's seat of our leadership and of our ministry, and
it's basically we're operating with Christ instead of letting him
do it through us. We're in dangerous territory. Mhm. He
(28:49):
wants to do it for us, in us. But so
often we like to be the consultant to God. And
that's dangerous territory because we're getting out ahead of him
and we're, we're leading and that's not how he wants
us submitted and surrendered to him. I think also, I
just want to speak to this in light of your question.
(29:10):
I think, um, one of the things that spiritual fatigue can,
can create in US ministry leaders in particular, is self-sufficiency.
See autonomy. When we think we're the only one on
the planet who can accomplish something, or minister or minister
to someone that is a dangerous, dangerous domino, lie to believe.
(29:31):
And that is the last. That's why Jesus is saying,
come to me. Stop your self-sufficiency. Stop thinking that you
can do this on your own. Come to me. Let
me do this through you. And I want to just
say this. If the only definition of rest that we
know is the absence of work, we've missed God's gift
because he intended physical rest to lead to spiritual rest.
(29:53):
And all of those things help reorient our heart around.
He's king, he's Lord. He's going to do this through me.
S1 (30:01):
Wow. You just hit a responsive nerve. I want to
go back because that's also, I think, something to consider.
And I think it's also part of our problematic thinking.
So if the opposite of of work is not working
and that not working then constitutes rest, we really don't
have a grasp on the definition of what rest is.
So how should we be defining rest?
S10 (30:21):
He listen. He never said strive tirelessly. Yes, he never
said that. He he never said, you know, come to me,
all of you who are killing it and living your
best life, and I will. He he says, come to
me if you're weary and burdened, if you're at the
end of your your rope. I. I recently taught on
(30:42):
on weariness and spiritual fatigue using waffle House hash browns, scattered, smothered, covered, chunked.
And it just talks about scrutiny. And when you think
about that in leadership narratives, those are the perfect words
for fatigue and weariness. He doesn't say strive tirelessly. He
declared on the cross, it is finished. Yeah. And that
(31:05):
is how we define rest is we rest in the
finished work of Jesus. Not work and earn. He says
it is finished. It is done. The cross finished it.
The resurrection finished it. So that's a period. And so
many times can I just say in my life, so
(31:26):
many times where God has placed a period in my life.
The enemy wants to come behind with a question mark. Yes,
he does that in Scripture. He did it with Eve.
He did it with Jesus in the wilderness. He said,
if you are the Son of God, if if he
is the Son of God, there's no if about it.
And it's declarative. He said, it is finished. So could
(31:49):
I just say to every leader out there that's weary
right now, just know it is finished. Rest in the
finished work of Jesus. That's where your rest comes from.
Is his finished work that's declarative of who he is,
not who you are.
S1 (32:04):
Yeah. Okay, so let me go to the fact that
sometimes we as believers are linear block thinkers. So you
just use the word work. So explain then to the
friend who's listening that goes, well, Marianne, I don't get that.
I mean, I was told that faith without works is dead.
So in my busyness, in my doing for Christ, aren't
I bearing fruit? And isn't this the, if you will,
(32:27):
the authentication of of a vibrant, alive faith that I have?
S10 (32:33):
Absolutely. I think it's really easy for us to think that, well,
you know, I need to surrender and I need to rest,
and that means hop in the recliner and recline, you know,
into life. And that's not how we don't recline into holiness.
We don't recline into sanctification. It's active. So there is
active living. There's active obedience, but there it's a it's
(32:55):
a surrendered heart posture. One of the things I talk
about is that's going to help with this question is
we I get into the disciplines of intimacy with Christ,
and I get into silence, solitude, stillness, and surrender and
surrender in particular. That definition is to cease resistance and submit.
Let go and trust. Releasing control. So you're still actively working.
(33:20):
You're still actively serving. You're still actively leading. But you're
your heart is surrendered. And he is the one that's
doing the work through you. Yeah.
S1 (33:30):
So let me go to these four because I think
these are worthy of a little deeper conversation. Silence. Solitude. Stillness. Surrender.
So silence. You intimated earlier that that meant just turn
it all off. We're surrounded with a cacophony of noise.
And you made an excellent point about replacing the Word
of God with your phone, putting it on the other
side of the room. How many? In fact, I remember
a dear friend who said she went on a six
(33:53):
month sabbatical just to see where her priorities were. If
she got into the word before she checked her email,
because that was a real indicator of where she was.
So that silence is understandable. What about the solitude and
how does the solitude differ from loneliness?
S10 (34:06):
Oh great one. So I use an image of a
person in a in a hammock. Because the thing is,
in leadership narratives, we are always around people. We're in
the business of human development and discipleship, and we're always
around people. And so the discipline of solitude is to
be alone and turn away from human interaction and external
distractions with the purpose of refining the soul. You're not isolating.
(34:31):
You're coming away to be with Jesus. You're coming to
a way to be with him. And we've got to
get away from the noise and the people if we're
going to hear God. I mean, we just do. We've
got to separate and come away from the pressure of
people and plug into the presence of God and be
with him and enjoy time with him and not avoid it.
(34:54):
That's one of the things that I've recently thought about
in why we fill our lives up with so much. It's,
you know, everyone deals with pressure in one of two ways.
Avoidance or control. Escape or control. And so what we've
got to do is we've got to zone in and go,
what do I turn to? Do I escape on my
(35:15):
phone and get on my game and escape reality, or
am I trying? Do I bear down and try to control?
And what solitude does is it kind of helps us
take our like, move back and step away and be
with him. Be alone with Christ. Remember, Christ is relational,
not just transactional. He's relational. He's not transactional. He's relational.
(35:36):
He wants a relationship with you. When Jesus died, he
tore that veil from top to bottom. And that invites
us into intimacy. And I will tell you, there is
a difference between proximity and intimacy. Proximity is is standing
out here. Standing away from intimacy is a pressing in.
(35:56):
It's closeness. It's close connection. And we've got to be careful.
He invites us to the table to feast with him.
He doesn't want us crawling around on the floor picking
up crumbs.
S1 (36:07):
Yeah. Wow. So good. On the other side, I do
want to talk about stillness and surrender. But just to
your point about solitude, for me, one of the things
I've learned is that there is a contentedness in solitude,
which is the distinctive between solitude and loneliness. Loneliness. You
have no sense that anyone's with you at all. Solitude,
as you just pointed out, is being with him. So
(36:28):
there really isn't a lone isolation in solitude. It's a
contentment because you're in his presence. When we come back,
let's talk about stillness and surrender. This is a wonderful
little book that really gets you to do a deep
dive into you in a personal inventory. What are your priorities?
How are you taking this treasure of time and using
it for him? Are you including real rest back after this?
(37:01):
The world needs hope and we have the greatest news
ever told. But how do we share it effectively? That's
why I've chosen Why Jesus by Ray comfort is this
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(37:21):
That's 877 Janet 58 or go to in the market
with Janet Parshall. Visiting with Marianne Howard, who's passionate about
teaching the Word of God and mentoring others to grow
up in him. She's written a fabulous book called Rest
Overcoming Spiritual Fatigue. And we were talking about, for Christian, uh, disciplines. Now,
(37:42):
that's a word, by the way, that the patriarchs of
old used to use on a regular basis. We've shied
away from it somehow. Either we misunderstand the word discipline
like we think we're going to be spanked, so we
stay away from it, or we don't have the wherewithal
to be disciplined enough to practice one of the disciplines.
So I'm so thankful that this is working back into
our verbiage as followers of Jesus Christ. So we've talked
(38:05):
a bit about silence and solitude. Stillness and surrender are
the other twos. Now stillness. It's a poetic concept, but
I'm sure that there are a lot of people who
can't say. I don't draw the distinction between silence and stillness.
What's the distinction?
S10 (38:20):
It's a stop. Cease and desist. Make room for listening.
It gives us the freedom to observe, and it opens
us to peace and invites us to know our limitedness
and God's vastness. Here's the thing silence, solitude, stillness and surrender.
(38:40):
The opposite of those thinking about what we've been talking
about with spiritual fatigue and burnout and all the things
in the productivity and the need and identity. Think about
the opposite of silence is noise. The opposite of solitude
is you're constantly with people. The opposite of stillness is
busyness and productivity. And the opposite of surrender is control.
(39:03):
And so that's what these disciplines do, is they reorient
us to God's vastness and our limitedness. That's what that's
what it helps us to do. And so stillness is
about stopping. It's it's be still. And that is a
rebuke in Scripture. Psalm 46, verse ten. It's a rebuke
to say, stop moving so that you can know that
(39:25):
I am God. So we've got to silence the noise.
We've so we get when we when we teach this,
we give tangible earplugs as the tangible reminder. It's a
hand on teachable, hands on teachable thing. So you're holding
those earplugs because you're silencing the noise. Solitude. You're coming
away from the demand of people stillness. You're stopping. You're
(39:49):
stopping the movement, the going, the productivity, the movement, all
of those things. You're stopping it so that you can
make room to know God. And then the discipline of surrender,
which is to submit, to let go and to trust.
S1 (40:05):
And that's risky, is it not? Because if when we
talked about this earlier, if the busyness is inexorably tied
to your identity, if you've made this an idol, if
the core of this is really self centeredness, the surrender
might be, if you're in that cobweb at all, it
might be the most difficult of all, because you really
have to allow your significance, your worth, your value to
(40:28):
be in him. Acts 17. And for some people, that's
not sufficient. It should be more than sufficient for all
of us. But the surrender says, if I never did
anything in any way, shape or form that identified me
as a leader going forward, I am absolutely whole, content
and at peace because I am in him. In him
(40:48):
we live and move and have our being. So how
does one sort of develop, if I can put it
this way, the spiritual muscle to surrender.
S10 (40:56):
Mm mm. I think it's important for us to understand
that we're not only what we offer, but how we worship, honor,
and obey him. And so it really does come down
to what do you believe about God? Do you believe
that he's Lord? Do you believe that he's the King
of your life, that he sits enthroned? Um, and so
(41:17):
that's really what that leaves that open for. And that's
the question that that you've got to whatever you're wrestling with.
We we recently did a, a conference and we went
through the hokey pokey back in the 80s. We would
go to the skating rink and literally skate in circles,
but we would do the hokey pokey, and you put
your right arm in, you put your right arm out,
you put your right arm in and you shake it
all about. You do the hokey pokey and you turn
(41:39):
yourself around. That's what it's all about. But the point
in that is, so many times we're playing the hokey
pokey with God. It's we put our ministry in, we
pull our or we put our family in, we pull
our family out. We put whatever it is. Think about
what it is in your life. What are you putting
in and what are you trying to pull back from God?
At the end of the day, you've got to trust
(42:00):
him with it. He's worthy of it. He is going
to take it and do something with it that that
you can't even imagine. Um, and so it really comes
down to what do you believe about God? But to
be honest with you, you've got to practice the silence,
solitude and stillness to even be able to surrender. Those
all build.
S1 (42:19):
Um, the intersection between all of those. Wow. So many
questions I want to ask you in an hour. That's
gone far too quickly, but is, my mom would say
has been a delicious conversation. You make the statement in
the book, and you quote another two about this idea
of you cannot hurry and love. Well, it's an intriguing idea.
Talk to me about that.
S10 (42:39):
When we are in a hurry. The more you increase
the speed of your life, your capacity to love others
well is going to be compromised. And what happens is
hurry will cause you to miss the needs of those
around you. And so it makes relationships shallow. And so
we've got to slow down to see people when I'm.
if I'm in a rush season and I'm going and
(43:01):
going and doing this, that and the other and I'm
constantly looking at my phone and constantly checking notifications, but
I'm also trying to have lunch with my best friend.
How does she feel valued in that? She doesn't. And
so the pace of our life, we've got to slow
down to see people. That's the pace of Jesus.
S3 (43:17):
Wow.
S1 (43:18):
So you've practiced this in your own life. Did you
have periods where you thought, I can't do this, or
was it an easy decision to put these disciplines into place?
S10 (43:28):
Most difficult thing I've done. The book is really about
my resistance to rest. Just so you know, it's my
own vulnerable story of my resistance to rest. It was
very difficult, but very worth it. If you're burnout and
you're dangling in spiritual fatigue, these four disciplines will help
you significantly.
S1 (43:48):
Wow. Wow. So you've not looked back at all. And
if you can do it, then the rest of us
can do it. One last quick question. Has it changed
you and your relationship with the Lord?
S10 (43:59):
Absolutely. Less anxiety, less chaos. More focus. Because he's the
giver of rest. I know where to go for it.
I wasn't going to the right things to get rest.
We have to go to the person of Jesus for rest.
He's the only one who can give it. And it's.
It will change your life and it will change the world.
Because this world is watching us and who we trust
(44:22):
and who we walk with and who we surrender to. Yeah.
S1 (44:25):
Well, that last statement that you made, Marianne, makes the
whole reading of the book compelling and the whole concept
of putting these four disciplines into place very appealing. Thank you. Um,
it's a different kind of conversation than what we've heard
in the church over the last several decades. It's all
about leadership, leadership, leadership. And you're saying, wait a minute,
who are you going to? Who do you want to
(44:46):
be with? Who carries your burdens? Thank you, Marianne, for
a wonderful conversation. The book, again, is called Rest Overcoming
Spiritual Fatigue. See you next time, friends.
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