October 3, 2025 • 45 mins
Movements often start in the name of liberating people from their oppressors—capitalists, foreign imperialists, or dictators in their own country. Revolutionaries rally the masses in the name of freedom, only to become more tyrannical than those they replaced. Much has been written about the anatomy of revolution but what is missing is a dissection of the revolutionary minds that destroyed the old for the creation of a more harmful new. Join us as Dr. Donald Critchlow explores basic questions about the revolutionary personality, and examines how these revolutionaries came to envision themselves as prophets of a new age.
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S1 (00:00):
Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
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(00:22):
Doctor Sam Storms. You know, he tells us that so
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to remember the Scripture that reminds us that while we
were yet sinners, not perfect, not all put together, not
everything's all been worked out while we were yet sinners.
That's when Christ died. For us. Love is an action word,
(00:44):
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(02:10):
hope you hear something today that really changes your perspective
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Enjoy the program!
S2 (02:18):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (02:20):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (02:22):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S3 (02:25):
Extremely rare safety move by a 17 years.
S5 (02:28):
The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S3 (02:33):
And.
S6 (02:47):
Together we of Africa and we of India Constitute one
third of the population of this world. Surely one third
(03:09):
of the population of this world, which at the United Nations.
Is treated as a little kid. We say no. One
third of the population of the world must be respected.
(03:36):
Its rights must be respected. Its equality must be respected.
S1 (03:42):
That is Robert Gabriel Mugabe, the prime minister, the first
prime minister of African state of Zimbabwe. But he is
also one of the five people identified by our guest
as a revolutionary monster, one of five men who turned
liberation into tyranny. Welcome to In the Market, with Janet Parshall.
Thrilled you're here. So I have a conversation with Doctor
(04:05):
George Barna, whose name is synonymous with culling information and
giving us a sense of people's worldview. He's doing the
American Worldview Inventory and delivers a rather disconcerting amount of
information that says that particularly millennials between the ages of
18 and 37 are, in his words, backing into Marxism.
(04:26):
They don't really understand it. They think that socialism is
a good idea. Hey, who wouldn't if you didn't do
your homework? After all, you're going to get free food,
free college, free rent. Just fill in the blank. Free.
And if you think that's what socialism is all about,
you need a tutorial. And that's what we're going to
get this hour. We're going to talk to a man
who feels that there is really a problem in America
because we don't know history. And if you study the
(04:49):
nature of human beings, you're going to understand that history
can be a powerful teacher. Doctor Donald Critchlow is with us.
He is the Katzin Family Professor at Arizona State University.
The author of several books, including, but not limited to
In Defense of Populism Protests in American Democracy, and one
on One of My Personal Heroes, Phyllis Schlafly and Grassroots
Conservatism A Woman's Crusade. And also the book that I
(05:13):
think is very timely is, well, intent, intended consequences, Birth control, abortion,
and the federal government in modern America. He leads the
program of Political History and Leadership at ASU, which is
a certificate program that provides students with a robust civic education. Don.
The warmest of welcomes I. I absolutely cannot tell you
(05:33):
how much I appreciate this book. I have a burden.
I don't understand why there is such receptivity all across
the board in the United States, but particularly in that
demographic of 18 to 37 year olds, to the concept
of socialism, which is linked to Marxism, which obviously is
tied to communism. What is the attractive nature? You're working
with young people all the time at ASU. Why does
(05:54):
this seem to be an attractive notion to people?
S7 (05:57):
Well, thank you very much for having me on and
an opportunity to discuss revolutionary monsters. And the question you
ask is why, uh, millennials are attracted to socialism is
the question of the day. There's, uh, what inspired me
to write Revolutionary Monsters was one poll that showed that 52%
(06:19):
of American youth support socialism, and another poll showed that 20%
get that, 20% believe that private property should be abolished
and owned by the state. So that was what I
was inspired to write revolutionary monsters. And, uh, in order
to teach, uh, give students and young people an opportunity
(06:43):
to learn what the consequences are of those chameleons, uh,
who are monsters beneath the surface in appearance. Pairings. Uh. And, uh.
Beguile our youth into thinking that you're going to get that.
That could create a perfect society with perfect human beings.
(07:03):
New socialist man, or the new African leader, or the new, uh,
the new saved, uh, man from, uh, in Iran?
S1 (07:12):
Yeah, absolutely. And I want to get into that. That's
how you start the book. And I thought it was exquisite.
But let me go back to your classroom. Are you
hearing this idea of receptivity in your classroom, or are
they set straight within the first week of class?
S7 (07:25):
Well, in my classes, uh, we don't propagandize. But what
we try to do is teach, uh, history. They haven't learned.
The other day in my in one of my classes,
we were discussing the difference between a political revolution and
a social revolution. And I asked one student, what about
the Polish revolution in 1989? And he had never heard
that Poland had been communistic, and he had never heard
(07:48):
of the fall of the Berlin Wall. And he was
a third year history, major. So it's not that the
students aren't. Yes. And it's not that the students aren't
learning history, but they're learning a very myopic history in
which they're in which focuses on identity. And so they're
not learning about significant events such as the fall of
(08:12):
the Berlin Wall or the history of the Soviet Union, uh, Mao,
Cultural Revolution, or Castro, what occurred there? In fact, many
of my students still think Castro is a hero. And
they I see in class classes students wearing Che Guevara
(08:34):
shirts last semester. Just one more story. Uh, I had
two students who came up after class to tell me
that they were libertarian communists. Now, that's not to be confused. Uh. Well,
I tried not to laugh either, but, you know, this
is this is what we're encountering in the classroom. And
(08:56):
I think it's a direct result of the kind of
history that's being taught throughout American universities. And we're seeing
the result of K through 12 education in which students
are coming out, uh, quite ignorant of, uh, of, of
of meaningful history, if you will.
S1 (09:13):
Absolutely. That's why I think your book is so crucial
at this time. Don. Just unbelievably important, by the way,
that idea of being a communist libertarian is the equivalent
of saying jumbo shrimp. That's the working definition of what
an oxymoron is. So we're going to get into these
five monsters rightfully identified by Doctor Donald Critchlow. That's our
whole conversation this hour. An absolutely essential read. Again, the
(09:36):
old adage is so true if we do not study history,
we are in fact doomed to repeat it. And Doctor
Critchlow knows that full well in his area of academic expertise.
But I love the fact that he's written this user
friendly book that teaches us history so we can identify,
by the way, who these revolutionary monsters are and why
they respond to what he calls, rightly, the siren's song.
(09:57):
Back after this. God is love. But when tragedy strikes,
we sometimes question God's kindness and his mercy. That's why
I've chosen the Steadfast Love of the Lord by Doctor
(10:19):
Sam Storms is this month's truth tool. Learn how to
navigate circumstances that seem to contradict God's unconditional love for you.
As for your copy of The Steadfast Love of the Lord,
when you give a gift of any amount in the market,
call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58 or go
to in the market with Janet Parshall.
S8 (10:41):
Where do you want that? We do. You leave us
without petroleum. Petroleum? You leave us Without sugar or sugar.
Here you are. You are leaders. Speak about aggression to Cuba. Khrushchev.
(11:01):
Speak about defending Cuba. You take our airplane. Khrushchev plan
is our plan to chop his plane. Are you a communist? What? Well,
wait for the history. The history will take. What? We are.
S1 (11:20):
Communists. That would be the answer to the question. Fidel Castro,
one of the five men identified by Doctor Donald Critchlow
as revolutionary monsters. Five men who turned liberation into tyranny.
It is his brand new book. He's a professor at
Arizona State University. Before I get in and I'm the
hour is going to fly. I already know this ahead
of time, Don, but I want to go to some
of the statements you made in the introduction because you
(11:42):
did a superb job of setting the stage, which is
really and truly talking about the difference between the American Revolution,
the French Revolution, that in and of itself was fascinating.
It's also why I think Thomas Jefferson was wrong on
his perspective on the French Revolution, but I digress. Let
me go to this idea that this the attractive nature
here seems to me power. And you ended the introduction
(12:03):
from a book of revelation. So let me ask this question,
starting in the book of Genesis, that that attractiveness, that
power question is ever before us in the human condition.
In fact, it was in the Garden of Eden where
Satan said to Adam and Eve, you will be like God.
If that isn't a promise of power, I don't know
what is. Do these people ascend because they're really looking
(12:25):
out for the betterment of people? Or is it because
in the end, they're unbelievably narcissistic and it's about their self-glorification?
S7 (12:34):
Well, I think it's a little of both. With each
of the figures I discussing revolutionary monsters, uh, I think
they were power driven, but they were also captured by
their own dreams of creating a perfect society, whether it's
through religion or communist ideology. And but once in power
(12:55):
and the dream begins to fail, they become more and
more obsessed with maintaining control. And that means genocide on
their people, starvation, mass incarceration, the creation of gulag systems,
and so forth. It all becomes about maintaining power. So
their dreams become lost, and it becomes solely about maintaining
(13:19):
power for themselves and their parties.
S1 (13:22):
So would you. Is it an oversimplification to say, in
the lives of these, at least four out of the
five will get the Khomeini in a minute, but at
least four out of the five do. They start with
what is almost a purist perspective of trying to create
this perfected society? And if, in fact, that is the
original stated goal when they begin to see death, mayhem
and oppression, is it just too late for them to
(13:45):
turn it around? And now it is simply about maintaining
and keeping the power, the power that they've gleaned.
S7 (13:50):
They, uh, they they begin with, uh, seeking power from
the very outset in order to fulfill their dreams. And they, uh,
as soon as they're in power, they all of them now, Castro, Mugabe, Khomeini,
as well as learning as we know, create police stakes, uh, commit, uh,
terrorism in order to subjugate the, uh, the people to,
(14:13):
into compliance. So it begins with terror and ends with terror.
S1 (14:19):
Wow. Wow. So you picked Lenin, Mao, Castro, Mugabe and Khomeini. Uh,
you could have had many more. Why did you choose
these five in particular?
S7 (14:28):
Well, I chose, uh, each of them to represent different
continents in order to show how bad ideas begin to
come into, uh, could become realized and really bad nightmares.
So I showed that this is a pattern found throughout
the world in which, the people are promised liberation and
they find themselves under horrible, horrible, grim irony. In each
(14:54):
of these regimes and each of these regimes, as I
show up, the revolutions begin with bad ideas infiltrating the
the youth and the intelligentsia, and sometimes even persuading, uh,
the ruling class. And then when there's social discontent, these
men rise to power, direct the revolution to their own ends.
(15:17):
And often they they confront a ruling elite that has
that has lost confidence in its own foundational principles. Uh,
they realize that they're just in power themselves, the ruling elite, uh,
in order to maintain, uh, uh, power and greed. So they,
they they end up collapsing. So one of the lessons
(15:40):
I think, that comes through in revolutionary monsters is how
bad ideas can, can really, uh, affect a society and
also how ruling elites when they just when they lose
confidence in their own foundational principles, can end up collapsing.
And I dare say that that's what we're witnessing today, uh,
(16:01):
in America, bad ideas of infiltrating our, uh, our youth.
And we have a, a ruling elite that seems to
have lost confidence in our own, uh, foundational principles of constitution,
the rule of law, and, uh, even going so far
as to condemn the Constitution as, uh, as an expression,
(16:23):
a social construct of, uh, of white privilege in order
to guarantee racism. And so we see woke corporations, woke uh, media,
woke entertainment, woke universities, and now it's extending through K
through 12 education. So that's that's why that's what bougainvillea
(16:45):
writing of revolutionary monsters.
S1 (16:47):
Wow. You say you talk a lot about the cult
of personality. Why is this germane to all of these individuals? Are.
Are these always charismatic figures? And is that a part
of their ascendancy to power?
S7 (16:59):
Yes. They're charismatic figures that suddenly that emerge in a
revolutionary situation. They're narcissist, all of them. So it's very
easy once they get into power, to translate their power
into a cult of personality. In fact, a cult of
personality is necessary to maintain their regimes. We see this
(17:23):
in Lenin and Mao, Castro and Mugabe and also Khomeini.
S1 (17:30):
Now the book is called Revolutionary Monsters Five Men Who
Turned Liberation into Tyranny. And I know exactly why Doctor
Critchlow wrote this book, not only to teach us history,
but because the warning signs are that we are Extremely
vulnerable in this country that we are moving dangerously close
to embracing deadly ideas. In fact, Doctor Critchlow said something
(17:50):
we say all the time on this program and you
can say it with me. Ideas have consequences. Good ideas
have good consequences. Bad ideas have bad consequences. If Barnet
is right and millennials are backing into socialism and Marxism,
it's because they don't understand how much it's a bad idea.
That's why books like Revolutionary Monsters are timely and needed.
Now back after this.
S9 (18:33):
This is awesome.
S1 (18:40):
He's a professor at Arizona State University. He's also a
prolific author. His newest book is called Revolutionary Monsters Five
Men Who Turned Liberation Into Tyranny. So, Don, if I can,
let me just start looking at some of these men
and their characteristics. Obviously, Lenin is crucial to all of
this stuff. When you talk about Marxist-Leninist ideology. You can't
talk about that. You can't talk about socialism without having
(19:04):
to talk about him as well. If you don't know
this part of world history and his rise to power.
Give me a crash course. Our listeners, as you're talking
to people all across the country, give us a crash
course on how he rose up and if he was
looking for the perfect society, if he was looking for
the perfect man, if he started out from a supposed,
(19:24):
I'll use this word, you didn't pure perspective that he
really was looking for something good, and he didn't know
his ideas would be twisted and would end up in
the live the loss of multiple, multiple, multiple human lives.
And then it was about grabbing power. But he started
out with a worldview that he thought was going to
be good. What was that and how did he get started?
S7 (19:42):
Well, learning was a personification of a of a monster.
As soon as he comes to power, he creates a
secret place, begins a campaign of terror, uh, oppresses all
other political parties, purge, purges his own party. He begins, uh,
like many young, uh, Russians, uh, becoming a Marxist. His, uh,
(20:05):
brother was, uh, was tried and convicted and executed for
for attempting to execute the Tsar. Logan picks up his
brother's mantle and calls for revolutionary terrorism. He begins to
read Marx and he begins to dream. Their perfect society
can be created. One point I would like to make
(20:27):
about all five of the characters that I capture. In short, uh, chapters,
is that all of them were, uh, college educated. They
were well-educated Go. Go, man. So Mal went to a university.
He often is portrayed as a simple peasant. His father
was actually quite wealthy. Living going back to him also
(20:51):
came from a very wealthy family. His father was a
minor minor royalty. And, uh, he he lives, uh, in
a state, a large estate owned by his maternal grandmother
that had serfs. And so while he's reading Marxism, Lenin
as a young man, he's having, uh, serfs wait on
(21:13):
him and support him. Similar story with, uh, Mao, whose father,
whose father was, uh, a peasant but was able to
employ other peasants. He becomes relatively wealthy. Castro comes from
a very elite background, goes to private, uh, elite schools, uh, including, uh, the, uh,
(21:37):
the Havana Law School. He too becomes a revolutionary Marxist.
As a young man. Khomeini as well is coming from
a wealthy, quite prestigious family. So what does this tell us?
I think that we need to beware, uh, be very
wary of kinds of education that we're teaching our, uh,
(21:59):
our kids these days.
S1 (22:01):
Yeah, those are fertile fields. Absolutely. That's a great point.
So where does his ideology come from?
S7 (22:08):
Uh, Lennon or Lennon? Lennon. Lennon, Mao and Castro. All, uh,
informed by Marx and Marxist theory that we can create
a perfect society and create in their eyes. In Marx's eyes,
the new socialist, uh, man. Trotsky goes so far saying
(22:28):
that within a few years after the revolution that the
new socialist man would, uh, would speak differently, sing differently,
and walked walk more erect. I kid you not that
they actually believe that there was going to be not
only a new socialist man psychologically, but one that was
going to be different physically. That's, that's that's their dreams
(22:53):
that turn into nightmares in order to fulfill their dream.
S1 (22:58):
So there's a strain of evolutionary thinking that works its
way through all of this, which is just stunning to me.
So again, the cult of personality, all three that you
just named when you talk about Lenin, Mao and Castro,
obviously very charismatic individuals, um, but their ideas are deadly.
What's amazing to me when you were talking is you're
seeing in all three of these there is critical race theory,
(23:19):
is there not a critical class theory? More to the
point with Mao, where there is the distinction Marxist-Leninist ideas
has to be the oppressor, the oppressed, the, you know,
the division of classes, the fomenting of distinctions between people.
How do you build a perfect society when you're constantly
trying to divide people, which in some way, shape or form,
many of these revolutionary monsters had to segment people while
(23:41):
trying to build a perfect society. They were willing to
keep some and get rid of others.
S7 (23:46):
Yes, all of them have to have enemies. And so
they attack their enemies, the threat from outside and from within.
So you see, in the Russian Revolution, after Trotsky is
expelled by Stalin, a campaign against Trotsky as well as
Masons and Jews within their ranks. And so there's continual
(24:08):
purging going on and, uh, and giving a free hand
to the secret. Uh, secret police to torture. I think
your readers, uh, of revolutionary monsters will be shocked by
the kinds of torture techniques that were developed early in
the Leninist regime. Uh, frightening.
S1 (24:30):
Yeah. Exactly. Right. Bad ideas have horrible and sometimes deadly consequences.
We're talking with Doctor Donald Critchlow, prolific author. He teaches
at Arizona State University, and his students are the better
for it when they're in his class. His newest book,
Revolutionary Monsters. Not only he's not stuck in the classroom,
by the way, he's not in the academic ivory tower.
He's very aware that outside off campus that these ideas
(24:53):
are taking up residency with repetitive nature and with high
levels of receptivity. That should give us all pause. That's
why his book is so important. Revolutionary monsters five men
who turned liberation into tyranny. Back after this. Going through
(25:22):
life with the Bible in one hand and the newspaper
and the other is essential for each of us on
our walk with Christ. And that's what we do on
in the market. We examine culture, interpret the headlines, and
look at the news from a biblical perspective. When you
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(25:44):
in the market with Janet.
S8 (25:54):
When we say. We hope.
S1 (26:06):
So. Most of you do not understand Chinese Mao Tse-tung
speaking there, obviously, but you can hear there is an
element of the charismatic in every one of these that
we are playing. And Doctor Donald Critchlow says, yeah, that's
part of it. It's part of the personality of cult.
In his brand new book, Revolutionary Monsters Five Men Who
Turned Liberation Into Tyranny, he identifies the characteristics of who
(26:29):
they were, what they promised, and in truth, what they delivered.
It is a timely shot across the bow. It is
a wake up call to a sleepy society that has
failed to recognize the idea that bad ideas have horrible consequences,
and we are running pell mell into some pretty bad
ideas as a culture right now. And the chapter with
Mao Tse-tung you called Lenin a dictator. You call Mao
(26:51):
a revolutionary destroyer. And I just want to read this
one little quick paragraph so people can begin to understand
when we say that bad ideas have bad consequences, deadly consequences.
So it comes to power. In 49, he ruled until
his death in 1976. 27 years he's at the head
of his government in the communist regime. He has absolute
power governing over a quarter of the world's, not just China,
(27:15):
the world's population. And his tenure, you write, was catastrophic.
His leadership led to the death of at least 42.5
million of his own people from famine and violence. Some
estimates placed the number of deaths higher. Without official Chinese figures,
we cannot know the exact number. The best estimates attribute
35 to 45 million to the famine during the Great
(27:37):
Leap Forward policy. Those were the years 59 to 62
2.3 million during the Cultural Revolution. That's 66 to 76
and another 1 million during other campaigns. Given such carnage,
Mao the monster remains an apt moniker for this revolutionary
whose policies caused the deaths of those very people he
(27:57):
promised to liberate. Oh so much, I want to ask you.
So you come out of this whole idea of dynasties,
and you've got the tension going on between China and
Japan and gets into power. In 1949, was China ripe
for for a figure like Mao at this point? And
if so, why? Because people you can't be forced to follow.
He must have some sort of draw that his promises,
(28:20):
as you write throughout the book, the promises of the
perfect society, the promises creating the perfect man, what were
what were the elements of his charisma that drew the
Chinese people to say, we'll follow him?
S7 (28:32):
There was a deep problems in industrialising China after the
fall of the. The emperor and Empress and the. And
China was divided between large numbers of peasants and elite
ruling uh group class in the cities. So it was
(28:53):
both countryside and city uh division. But it should be
pointed out, as I do in Revolutionary monsters, that Mao
actually set quotas from, uh, local party people. Like how
many people had to die and how many people had to, uh,
be executed. Mao went so far into fulfilling his dream
that he actually supported publicly, uh, a nuclear war. He
(29:18):
said if China lost another, uh, million or so or
50 million people, that would still, uh, end up, uh, ahead.
Mugabe as I discussing Ussing. The short, readable chapter on him, uh,
actually used a trained train. Troops from uh, trained in
(29:39):
North Korea to commit genocide on arrival uh tribe in
which people were starved to death, villages, uh, burned and women, uh, raped.
And Khomeini. When he comes to power a month before
he dies, issues an execution uh, letter, uh, directive in
which 30,000 political prisoners were killed and, uh, by being slowly, uh, hung,
(30:04):
sometimes being hanged for hours, uh, hours before their death.
These men are, uh, monsters with, uh, dreams that of, uh,
creating the perfect society. They only turn up, turn into, uh,
cults of personality and, uh, despair and grim tragedy, uh,
in our 20th century.
S1 (30:25):
So, Dennis, the evolution, no pun intended here in these individuals,
these five men, and they're all they are monsters because
they slaughtered people left and right, all five of them.
That's clearly one of the continuous aspects of all five
of these men, is that to get people to say, look,
I don't care if you love me, I don't care
if you respect me, I'm going to get you to
fear me. So there seems to be this collective connection
(30:46):
between power and fear that all five of these men
had to use both.
S7 (30:52):
All of these men from London, Mao, Castro, Mugabe and
Khomeini already is in their youth showed great narcissism, narcissism, uh,
and great selfishness and total disregard for their fellow classmates.
And also, even as young men had dreams of, uh,
(31:15):
of seeking power, Castro sees himself as becoming the next
leader of of, uh, Cuba. Similarly, with Mao lying, uh,
has dreams for power even as a young, uh, A
young man and similarly with Khomeini, takes a little time
for the true Khomeini to come out. If I may
say one more thing. It should be said that the
(31:37):
Western press, throughout all of these men touted these men
and glorified them when they first came to power. Mugabe
was great. Uh, was was, uh, described by the Western press,
both in Europe and America, as the new African leader.
And similarly with Khomeini, when Carter sends a message to
(32:01):
Khomeini that they both are two religious men, they're going
to share the world stage. So there's a complicity among
the leaders, especially among the Western, uh, press and creating these, uh, monsters.
S1 (32:15):
Wow. So what you're saying is, in many respects, we
prop them up to that point. If you look at
President XI and China right now, he has said openly
that one of his heroes is Mao. So for people
who are going, yawn, this is a boring history lesson.
This is about moving forward. This isn't just about looking back.
So if you have China who has never mitigated their
stated goal of hegemony. If we see their monstrous buildup,
(32:37):
if we see what they're doing in Taiwan, if we
see what we've done, they've done in Hong Kong, if
we see that they're building up their nuclear warhead arsenal
as we're drawing down, it's imperative we understand exactly who
Mao was. If the current president of that communist regime
looks to Mao as his northern star for leadership. Talk
to me about that.
S7 (32:55):
Yes. Matt Key and the Chinese communist regime is intent
upon maintaining one party rule. They're anti-democratic. They think that
the Soviet Union made a mistake by introducing any form
of democracy. Uh, and that was, uh, that was their
(33:15):
great mistake because it led to the fall of the
Communist Party rule. So they have, uh, China for all
of its, uh, uh, that's having this 9% GPA growth
actually faces deep, uh, internal, uh, problems from the lack
of water demographic, uh, problems, uh, people leaving the countryside
(33:40):
and going to the cities. I've lectured, uh, uh, lectured
throughout China, uh, for any of you who have been
in Beijing, you're, uh, you have to wear a mask
there because you'll die of the, uh, smog if you
walk around. You see, uh, massive, uh, homelessness. So a
regime in order to maintain its power, such as communist
(34:03):
mainland China, has to, uh, has to create a cult
of personality, and they have to have external enemies. And
so they fear, uh, Taiwan, which is a democracy right
off their shore. And, uh, they feared, uh, Hong Kong, another, uh,
democracy and, uh, prosperous society. So they've come in finally
(34:26):
breaking any agreement that they had with Thatcher and the
English government in order to institute repression, all under the
guise of, uh, kind of free elections in which the
candidates are selected already prior to the election.
S1 (34:45):
Yeah, exactly. It's all kangaroo. Absolute kangaroo court. Let me
go to the point before, because I think it's germane
from how this being propped up by the West. So
we go to the end of the years of Mao's reign,
and then he takes a turn. You write about this
in the book to the West. He wants to open
China up to the West. Remember those famous conversations with
Richard Nixon? Why was this part of his strategy? He's
(35:07):
still looking for the perfect society, the perfect man. He's brutal.
He's killing his own people. When you're in the millions,
it's genocide, as far as I'm concerned. What was his philosophy?
His psychology? More to the point of deciding that he
would partner with the West, because certainly that's where we're
at now. We have a markedly schizophrenic policy on our
relationship with Communist China or Communist China, with Communist China.
(35:28):
Right now. So why did Mao say, I gotta turn
to the West? What was going to be in it
for him?
S7 (35:32):
Well, Mao saw economic opportunity. That's all it's about. And, uh,
he basically plays Nixon talking about markets that America can have. Well,
he's already intent on building factories and, uh, stealing intellectual property. So. And, uh,
after that meeting, in fact, Nixon is, uh, humiliated, uh,
(35:57):
at the meeting, uh, and Mao calls it, uh, all, uh, theater. Uh,
and that's what it was. So, America, uh, looks like
it has a great America, looks like it has a
great economic opportunity. And now we're dealing with the consequences
of becoming so reliant on China for so many goods.
(36:19):
I mean, 90% of our pharmaceuticals are produced in China, And, uh,
you know, so we have another pandemic that's created by China,
and they are exploring biological weapons. Uh, will, uh, will
have to ask, beg them for drugs to address the problem. Uh.
S1 (36:38):
Simply put, we'll make you sick, and then we'll give
you the cure. Wow. Amazing. The book is so important,
so crucial to the days and times in which we live.
You have to. We talk all the time about worldviews.
This really, at its core, is about worldviews and worldviews
that are right and worldviews that have deadly consequences. So
Doctor Donald Critchlow, professor at Arizona State University, studied five
(36:59):
men who were nothing more and nothing less than monsters.
But they marketed the idea of liberation, and they eventually
turned around to be tyrants. It's an important read back
after this.
S10 (37:22):
He kissed me. Hello? Hello? Zoom. In on. Me.
S1 (37:37):
So that's the Ayatollah Khomeini. And that is one of
the five men that Doctor Donald Critchlow identifies, and rightly so,
as a revolutionary monster. Five men who turned liberation into tyranny.
I've saved him for the last on because he's different
than the other four, in that this is the only
one that all is working for. A perfect society is
also likewise, his perfect society is a theocracy. That makes
(38:01):
him a little bit different. Here he uses religion as
a weapon. So talk to me about, again his ascendancy, um,
his control. It was either quite to put it in
the vernacular, it was his way or the highway. Um,
we see that very much with the ayatollahs in Iran today.
And yet, paradoxically, it's the country on planet Earth where
there's the fastest growing church. So sometimes oppression does give
(38:24):
rise to real freedom. Uh, in your faith instead. So how? How?
I mean, was it a grab a power grab here?
Because was he marketing really a better society? Did people
really believe him? Because even to this day, in a
country that's marked by its young population, why? And how
did he get power? Was it through force or was
(38:44):
he moved up the ladder?
S7 (38:47):
Uh, Khomeini, uh, rises to power, forming a coalition against
the Shah. And that coalition included a Marxist, uh, along
with the Soviet Union as well as liberals who think
who believe that Khomeini was going to create, uh, popular democracy.
(39:08):
And then it also includes, uh, Islamic extremists who understand,
who want a theocracy. Uh, so Khomeini doesn't, uh, present
that he's going to, uh, to the press and to
the people, this coalition that he's going to create a theocracy.
But it should be noted that when he's placed into
exile in Paris, uh, having been expelled now from Iraq, uh, he, uh,
(39:33):
he has the liberals, uh, Iranians around him, well educated,
who translate for him at press conferences. So his talk of, uh, uh,
denouncing women wearing Western skirts and dress is translated by
the French speaking Iranian, uh, liberals who are believing, uh, Khomeini.
(39:56):
It's translated to the Western press. And Khomeini is writing these, uh, uh, uh,
books and also giving speeches that are widely circulating on tape, uh,
sermons and his writings, it should be said, and I've
(40:17):
only read them in translation, uh, his scholarly works are
full or just rants against Jews and Western imperialist ideas.
He is opposed to democracy, uh, in these books very clearly. And, uh,
he's also a conspiracy theorist. There's very little scholarship in them. There's, uh, deep,
(40:42):
deep anti-Semitism and anti-Jewish and anti-Christian views in his writings.
S1 (40:50):
Wow. Amazing. You draw a distinction on what you call
the politicizing of Islam. In fact, you call it political Islam.
Explain to our listeners what you mean by that.
S7 (41:00):
Well, in the, uh, in the beginning of, uh, the
the first resistance to, uh, the Shah and the Shah
finding himself in an untenable position of trying to modernize
a very traditional and still peasant society, uh, opposition emerges
among the youth who, uh, and some intellectuals in exile
(41:23):
that Islam needs to be politicized. There shouldn't just be
a religion, but it should be a tool for political, uh,
political change. And so the Western, uh, trained, uh, uh,
Iranian intellectuals tried to fuse Marxism, communist ideas with Islam.
They participate in the revolution only to find themselves being
(41:47):
shot by Revolutionary Guards and imprisoned. And later, as I mentioned, uh,
earlier in our conversation, uh, executing within, uh, as political prisoners,
30,000 at least were killed, uh, under Khamenei's orders.
S1 (42:06):
Unbelievable that I see a parallel here between Mao and
the connection to President XI and Khomeini. And what we
have now with the ayatollahs. So this wasn't a bad
chapter of Iranian history. His footprints are all over the
country now. So how much of who he was is
being put forth now by the ayatollahs?
S7 (42:25):
Well, uh, it's, uh, again, the, uh, the new ruling
regime with the supreme leader is modeled after Khamenei's, uh, design.
So they present themselves as kind of, uh, simple, simple men.
But there's great wealth behind them. Uh, and the Revolutionary
Guard now controls huge chunks of the economy, including construction and, uh, defense,
(42:52):
as well as nuclear weapons development. It's very corrupt. Uh,
and that's that. And many of the young people who just, uh,
see what the consequences of this regime are, are, uh,
deserting it. Uh, but they're, uh, as, as well as
many of the there's been uprisings in the last year,
(43:12):
resistance in the, uh, in the, in the Outlying regions,
and so the regime is mobilized Revolutionary Guards troops to
crush this resistance. And I might add that America has been, uh,
quite lax in, uh, supporting, uh, this resistance.
S1 (43:32):
100%. So Don and I want to tell our friends
who are listening all across the country that there is
a ton of information in this book. I have literally
skated across the surface. It is such an important read.
But I want to ask the last question, and I
think it's on a lot of people's minds, Don, which
is okay, interesting history, troublesome history. But why is your
book germane to where we are in the United States
(43:54):
right now, and what lessons must we learn?
S7 (43:57):
We need to learn, uh, our youth needs to learn
that they could be beguiled by talk of social justice.
Social justice could be achieved. But we're not going to
create a perfect society. But we should remain optimistic. Very optimistic.
I see a lot of good things happening, uh, with
resistance in the classroom and with parents.
S1 (44:19):
Yeah, absolutely. And what a note. What a wonderfully positive
note to end on. Donna, I thank you so much.
Let me get my friends again the information in their
hands so they can read this book. I want you
to go to my website in the market with Janet Parshall.
Click on that red box. It says Program Details and Audio.
It will take you over to the information page. There.
You're going to have a longer bio of Doctor Donald Critchlow, very,
(44:41):
very prolific author. You heard me say that before. He's
the author and editor of over 23 books. I just
named a couple of titles, but also there's the book
we've been discussing this, Our Revolutionary Monsters, five Men Who
Turned liberation into Tyranny. It's important if you care about worldviews,
because worldviews then portend ideas, and ideas portend action. It
(45:02):
also speaks to what we're starting to embrace in this country,
in a state of ignorance, because we don't understand how
easily we can be wooed by tyranny. Donna, thank you
so much, friends. Thank you. Get the book and read it.
We'll see you next time.
Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
of In the Market with Janet Parshall, and it is
my most sincere hope that you are edified, equipped, enlightened,
encouraged and then it makes you just want to get
out there in the marketplace of ideas and influence and
occupy until he comes. But before you start listening, let
me just take a moment of your time to tell
you about this month's truth tool. It's called The Steadfast
Love of the Lord by my friend and frequent guest,
(00:22):
Doctor Sam Storms. You know, he tells us that so
often we struggle with this idea of feeling like we're
loved by God, or that somehow we've done something that
separates us from the love of God. But we fail
to remember the Scripture that reminds us that while we
were yet sinners, not perfect, not all put together, not
everything's all been worked out while we were yet sinners.
That's when Christ died. For us. Love is an action word,
(00:44):
and that's what Doctor Sam Storms reminds us in his book,
The Steadfast Love of God. I don't know about you,
but with the headlines of the day, being reminded of
who God is is about the most precious news I
could hear on a regular basis. And I'd love for
you to have a copy written by a man who
understands the Bible and always delivers rich theology. So just
call eight seven, seven Janet 58. When you give a
(01:05):
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(01:26):
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(01:49):
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Thanks so much. And now with all my heart, I
(02:10):
hope you hear something today that really changes your perspective
and makes you excited about being a follower of Jesus Christ.
Enjoy the program!
S2 (02:18):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (02:20):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
S4 (02:22):
Americans worshiping government over God.
S3 (02:25):
Extremely rare safety move by a 17 years.
S5 (02:28):
The Palestinians and Israelis negotiated.
S3 (02:33):
And.
S6 (02:47):
Together we of Africa and we of India Constitute one
third of the population of this world. Surely one third
(03:09):
of the population of this world, which at the United Nations.
Is treated as a little kid. We say no. One
third of the population of the world must be respected.
(03:36):
Its rights must be respected. Its equality must be respected.
S1 (03:42):
That is Robert Gabriel Mugabe, the prime minister, the first
prime minister of African state of Zimbabwe. But he is
also one of the five people identified by our guest
as a revolutionary monster, one of five men who turned
liberation into tyranny. Welcome to In the Market, with Janet Parshall.
Thrilled you're here. So I have a conversation with Doctor
(04:05):
George Barna, whose name is synonymous with culling information and
giving us a sense of people's worldview. He's doing the
American Worldview Inventory and delivers a rather disconcerting amount of
information that says that particularly millennials between the ages of
18 and 37 are, in his words, backing into Marxism.
(04:26):
They don't really understand it. They think that socialism is
a good idea. Hey, who wouldn't if you didn't do
your homework? After all, you're going to get free food,
free college, free rent. Just fill in the blank. Free.
And if you think that's what socialism is all about,
you need a tutorial. And that's what we're going to
get this hour. We're going to talk to a man
who feels that there is really a problem in America
because we don't know history. And if you study the
(04:49):
nature of human beings, you're going to understand that history
can be a powerful teacher. Doctor Donald Critchlow is with us.
He is the Katzin Family Professor at Arizona State University.
The author of several books, including, but not limited to
In Defense of Populism Protests in American Democracy, and one
on One of My Personal Heroes, Phyllis Schlafly and Grassroots
Conservatism A Woman's Crusade. And also the book that I
(05:13):
think is very timely is, well, intent, intended consequences, Birth control, abortion,
and the federal government in modern America. He leads the
program of Political History and Leadership at ASU, which is
a certificate program that provides students with a robust civic education. Don.
The warmest of welcomes I. I absolutely cannot tell you
(05:33):
how much I appreciate this book. I have a burden.
I don't understand why there is such receptivity all across
the board in the United States, but particularly in that
demographic of 18 to 37 year olds, to the concept
of socialism, which is linked to Marxism, which obviously is
tied to communism. What is the attractive nature? You're working
with young people all the time at ASU. Why does
(05:54):
this seem to be an attractive notion to people?
S7 (05:57):
Well, thank you very much for having me on and
an opportunity to discuss revolutionary monsters. And the question you
ask is why, uh, millennials are attracted to socialism is
the question of the day. There's, uh, what inspired me
to write Revolutionary Monsters was one poll that showed that 52%
(06:19):
of American youth support socialism, and another poll showed that 20%
get that, 20% believe that private property should be abolished
and owned by the state. So that was what I
was inspired to write revolutionary monsters. And, uh, in order
to teach, uh, give students and young people an opportunity
(06:43):
to learn what the consequences are of those chameleons, uh,
who are monsters beneath the surface in appearance. Pairings. Uh. And, uh.
Beguile our youth into thinking that you're going to get that.
That could create a perfect society with perfect human beings.
(07:03):
New socialist man, or the new African leader, or the new, uh,
the new saved, uh, man from, uh, in Iran?
S1 (07:12):
Yeah, absolutely. And I want to get into that. That's
how you start the book. And I thought it was exquisite.
But let me go back to your classroom. Are you
hearing this idea of receptivity in your classroom, or are
they set straight within the first week of class?
S7 (07:25):
Well, in my classes, uh, we don't propagandize. But what
we try to do is teach, uh, history. They haven't learned.
The other day in my in one of my classes,
we were discussing the difference between a political revolution and
a social revolution. And I asked one student, what about
the Polish revolution in 1989? And he had never heard
that Poland had been communistic, and he had never heard
(07:48):
of the fall of the Berlin Wall. And he was
a third year history, major. So it's not that the
students aren't. Yes. And it's not that the students aren't
learning history, but they're learning a very myopic history in
which they're in which focuses on identity. And so they're
not learning about significant events such as the fall of
(08:12):
the Berlin Wall or the history of the Soviet Union, uh, Mao,
Cultural Revolution, or Castro, what occurred there? In fact, many
of my students still think Castro is a hero. And
they I see in class classes students wearing Che Guevara
(08:34):
shirts last semester. Just one more story. Uh, I had
two students who came up after class to tell me
that they were libertarian communists. Now, that's not to be confused. Uh. Well,
I tried not to laugh either, but, you know, this
is this is what we're encountering in the classroom. And
(08:56):
I think it's a direct result of the kind of
history that's being taught throughout American universities. And we're seeing
the result of K through 12 education in which students
are coming out, uh, quite ignorant of, uh, of, of
of meaningful history, if you will.
S1 (09:13):
Absolutely. That's why I think your book is so crucial
at this time. Don. Just unbelievably important, by the way,
that idea of being a communist libertarian is the equivalent
of saying jumbo shrimp. That's the working definition of what
an oxymoron is. So we're going to get into these
five monsters rightfully identified by Doctor Donald Critchlow. That's our
whole conversation this hour. An absolutely essential read. Again, the
(09:36):
old adage is so true if we do not study history,
we are in fact doomed to repeat it. And Doctor
Critchlow knows that full well in his area of academic expertise.
But I love the fact that he's written this user
friendly book that teaches us history so we can identify,
by the way, who these revolutionary monsters are and why
they respond to what he calls, rightly, the siren's song.
(09:57):
Back after this. God is love. But when tragedy strikes,
we sometimes question God's kindness and his mercy. That's why
I've chosen the Steadfast Love of the Lord by Doctor
(10:19):
Sam Storms is this month's truth tool. Learn how to
navigate circumstances that seem to contradict God's unconditional love for you.
As for your copy of The Steadfast Love of the Lord,
when you give a gift of any amount in the market,
call 877 Janet 58. That's 877 Janet 58 or go
to in the market with Janet Parshall.
S8 (10:41):
Where do you want that? We do. You leave us
without petroleum. Petroleum? You leave us Without sugar or sugar.
Here you are. You are leaders. Speak about aggression to Cuba. Khrushchev.
(11:01):
Speak about defending Cuba. You take our airplane. Khrushchev plan
is our plan to chop his plane. Are you a communist? What? Well,
wait for the history. The history will take. What? We are.
S1 (11:20):
Communists. That would be the answer to the question. Fidel Castro,
one of the five men identified by Doctor Donald Critchlow
as revolutionary monsters. Five men who turned liberation into tyranny.
It is his brand new book. He's a professor at
Arizona State University. Before I get in and I'm the
hour is going to fly. I already know this ahead
of time, Don, but I want to go to some
of the statements you made in the introduction because you
(11:42):
did a superb job of setting the stage, which is
really and truly talking about the difference between the American Revolution,
the French Revolution, that in and of itself was fascinating.
It's also why I think Thomas Jefferson was wrong on
his perspective on the French Revolution, but I digress. Let
me go to this idea that this the attractive nature
here seems to me power. And you ended the introduction
(12:03):
from a book of revelation. So let me ask this question,
starting in the book of Genesis, that that attractiveness, that
power question is ever before us in the human condition.
In fact, it was in the Garden of Eden where
Satan said to Adam and Eve, you will be like God.
If that isn't a promise of power, I don't know
what is. Do these people ascend because they're really looking
(12:25):
out for the betterment of people? Or is it because
in the end, they're unbelievably narcissistic and it's about their self-glorification?
S7 (12:34):
Well, I think it's a little of both. With each
of the figures I discussing revolutionary monsters, uh, I think
they were power driven, but they were also captured by
their own dreams of creating a perfect society, whether it's
through religion or communist ideology. And but once in power
(12:55):
and the dream begins to fail, they become more and
more obsessed with maintaining control. And that means genocide on
their people, starvation, mass incarceration, the creation of gulag systems,
and so forth. It all becomes about maintaining power. So
their dreams become lost, and it becomes solely about maintaining
(13:19):
power for themselves and their parties.
S1 (13:22):
So would you. Is it an oversimplification to say, in
the lives of these, at least four out of the
five will get the Khomeini in a minute, but at
least four out of the five do. They start with
what is almost a purist perspective of trying to create
this perfected society? And if, in fact, that is the
original stated goal when they begin to see death, mayhem
and oppression, is it just too late for them to
(13:45):
turn it around? And now it is simply about maintaining
and keeping the power, the power that they've gleaned.
S7 (13:50):
They, uh, they they begin with, uh, seeking power from
the very outset in order to fulfill their dreams. And they, uh,
as soon as they're in power, they all of them now, Castro, Mugabe, Khomeini,
as well as learning as we know, create police stakes, uh, commit, uh,
terrorism in order to subjugate the, uh, the people to,
(14:13):
into compliance. So it begins with terror and ends with terror.
S1 (14:19):
Wow. Wow. So you picked Lenin, Mao, Castro, Mugabe and Khomeini. Uh,
you could have had many more. Why did you choose
these five in particular?
S7 (14:28):
Well, I chose, uh, each of them to represent different
continents in order to show how bad ideas begin to
come into, uh, could become realized and really bad nightmares.
So I showed that this is a pattern found throughout
the world in which, the people are promised liberation and
they find themselves under horrible, horrible, grim irony. In each
(14:54):
of these regimes and each of these regimes, as I
show up, the revolutions begin with bad ideas infiltrating the
the youth and the intelligentsia, and sometimes even persuading, uh,
the ruling class. And then when there's social discontent, these
men rise to power, direct the revolution to their own ends.
(15:17):
And often they they confront a ruling elite that has
that has lost confidence in its own foundational principles. Uh,
they realize that they're just in power themselves, the ruling elite, uh,
in order to maintain, uh, uh, power and greed. So they,
they they end up collapsing. So one of the lessons
(15:40):
I think, that comes through in revolutionary monsters is how
bad ideas can, can really, uh, affect a society and
also how ruling elites when they just when they lose
confidence in their own foundational principles, can end up collapsing.
And I dare say that that's what we're witnessing today, uh,
(16:01):
in America, bad ideas of infiltrating our, uh, our youth.
And we have a, a ruling elite that seems to
have lost confidence in our own, uh, foundational principles of constitution,
the rule of law, and, uh, even going so far
as to condemn the Constitution as, uh, as an expression,
(16:23):
a social construct of, uh, of white privilege in order
to guarantee racism. And so we see woke corporations, woke uh, media,
woke entertainment, woke universities, and now it's extending through K
through 12 education. So that's that's why that's what bougainvillea
(16:45):
writing of revolutionary monsters.
S1 (16:47):
Wow. You say you talk a lot about the cult
of personality. Why is this germane to all of these individuals? Are.
Are these always charismatic figures? And is that a part
of their ascendancy to power?
S7 (16:59):
Yes. They're charismatic figures that suddenly that emerge in a
revolutionary situation. They're narcissist, all of them. So it's very
easy once they get into power, to translate their power
into a cult of personality. In fact, a cult of
personality is necessary to maintain their regimes. We see this
(17:23):
in Lenin and Mao, Castro and Mugabe and also Khomeini.
S1 (17:30):
Now the book is called Revolutionary Monsters Five Men Who
Turned Liberation into Tyranny. And I know exactly why Doctor
Critchlow wrote this book, not only to teach us history,
but because the warning signs are that we are Extremely
vulnerable in this country that we are moving dangerously close
to embracing deadly ideas. In fact, Doctor Critchlow said something
(17:50):
we say all the time on this program and you
can say it with me. Ideas have consequences. Good ideas
have good consequences. Bad ideas have bad consequences. If Barnet
is right and millennials are backing into socialism and Marxism,
it's because they don't understand how much it's a bad idea.
That's why books like Revolutionary Monsters are timely and needed.
Now back after this.
S9 (18:33):
This is awesome.
S1 (18:40):
He's a professor at Arizona State University. He's also a
prolific author. His newest book is called Revolutionary Monsters Five
Men Who Turned Liberation Into Tyranny. So, Don, if I can,
let me just start looking at some of these men
and their characteristics. Obviously, Lenin is crucial to all of
this stuff. When you talk about Marxist-Leninist ideology. You can't
talk about that. You can't talk about socialism without having
(19:04):
to talk about him as well. If you don't know
this part of world history and his rise to power.
Give me a crash course. Our listeners, as you're talking
to people all across the country, give us a crash
course on how he rose up and if he was
looking for the perfect society, if he was looking for
the perfect man, if he started out from a supposed,
(19:24):
I'll use this word, you didn't pure perspective that he
really was looking for something good, and he didn't know
his ideas would be twisted and would end up in
the live the loss of multiple, multiple, multiple human lives.
And then it was about grabbing power. But he started
out with a worldview that he thought was going to
be good. What was that and how did he get started?
S7 (19:42):
Well, learning was a personification of a of a monster.
As soon as he comes to power, he creates a
secret place, begins a campaign of terror, uh, oppresses all
other political parties, purge, purges his own party. He begins, uh,
like many young, uh, Russians, uh, becoming a Marxist. His, uh,
(20:05):
brother was, uh, was tried and convicted and executed for
for attempting to execute the Tsar. Logan picks up his
brother's mantle and calls for revolutionary terrorism. He begins to
read Marx and he begins to dream. Their perfect society
can be created. One point I would like to make
(20:27):
about all five of the characters that I capture. In short, uh, chapters,
is that all of them were, uh, college educated. They
were well-educated Go. Go, man. So Mal went to a university.
He often is portrayed as a simple peasant. His father
was actually quite wealthy. Living going back to him also
(20:51):
came from a very wealthy family. His father was a
minor minor royalty. And, uh, he he lives, uh, in
a state, a large estate owned by his maternal grandmother
that had serfs. And so while he's reading Marxism, Lenin
as a young man, he's having, uh, serfs wait on
(21:13):
him and support him. Similar story with, uh, Mao, whose father,
whose father was, uh, a peasant but was able to
employ other peasants. He becomes relatively wealthy. Castro comes from
a very elite background, goes to private, uh, elite schools, uh, including, uh, the, uh,
(21:37):
the Havana Law School. He too becomes a revolutionary Marxist.
As a young man. Khomeini as well is coming from
a wealthy, quite prestigious family. So what does this tell us?
I think that we need to beware, uh, be very
wary of kinds of education that we're teaching our, uh,
(21:59):
our kids these days.
S1 (22:01):
Yeah, those are fertile fields. Absolutely. That's a great point.
So where does his ideology come from?
S7 (22:08):
Uh, Lennon or Lennon? Lennon. Lennon, Mao and Castro. All, uh,
informed by Marx and Marxist theory that we can create
a perfect society and create in their eyes. In Marx's eyes,
the new socialist, uh, man. Trotsky goes so far saying
(22:28):
that within a few years after the revolution that the
new socialist man would, uh, would speak differently, sing differently,
and walked walk more erect. I kid you not that
they actually believe that there was going to be not
only a new socialist man psychologically, but one that was
going to be different physically. That's, that's that's their dreams
(22:53):
that turn into nightmares in order to fulfill their dream.
S1 (22:58):
So there's a strain of evolutionary thinking that works its
way through all of this, which is just stunning to me.
So again, the cult of personality, all three that you
just named when you talk about Lenin, Mao and Castro,
obviously very charismatic individuals, um, but their ideas are deadly.
What's amazing to me when you were talking is you're
seeing in all three of these there is critical race theory,
(23:19):
is there not a critical class theory? More to the
point with Mao, where there is the distinction Marxist-Leninist ideas
has to be the oppressor, the oppressed, the, you know,
the division of classes, the fomenting of distinctions between people.
How do you build a perfect society when you're constantly
trying to divide people, which in some way, shape or form,
many of these revolutionary monsters had to segment people while
(23:41):
trying to build a perfect society. They were willing to
keep some and get rid of others.
S7 (23:46):
Yes, all of them have to have enemies. And so
they attack their enemies, the threat from outside and from within.
So you see, in the Russian Revolution, after Trotsky is
expelled by Stalin, a campaign against Trotsky as well as
Masons and Jews within their ranks. And so there's continual
(24:08):
purging going on and, uh, and giving a free hand
to the secret. Uh, secret police to torture. I think
your readers, uh, of revolutionary monsters will be shocked by
the kinds of torture techniques that were developed early in
the Leninist regime. Uh, frightening.
S1 (24:30):
Yeah. Exactly. Right. Bad ideas have horrible and sometimes deadly consequences.
We're talking with Doctor Donald Critchlow, prolific author. He teaches
at Arizona State University, and his students are the better
for it when they're in his class. His newest book,
Revolutionary Monsters. Not only he's not stuck in the classroom,
by the way, he's not in the academic ivory tower.
He's very aware that outside off campus that these ideas
(24:53):
are taking up residency with repetitive nature and with high
levels of receptivity. That should give us all pause. That's
why his book is so important. Revolutionary monsters five men
who turned liberation into tyranny. Back after this. Going through
(25:22):
life with the Bible in one hand and the newspaper
and the other is essential for each of us on
our walk with Christ. And that's what we do on
in the market. We examine culture, interpret the headlines, and
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(25:44):
in the market with Janet.
S8 (25:54):
When we say. We hope.
S1 (26:06):
So. Most of you do not understand Chinese Mao Tse-tung
speaking there, obviously, but you can hear there is an
element of the charismatic in every one of these that
we are playing. And Doctor Donald Critchlow says, yeah, that's
part of it. It's part of the personality of cult.
In his brand new book, Revolutionary Monsters Five Men Who
Turned Liberation Into Tyranny, he identifies the characteristics of who
(26:29):
they were, what they promised, and in truth, what they delivered.
It is a timely shot across the bow. It is
a wake up call to a sleepy society that has
failed to recognize the idea that bad ideas have horrible consequences,
and we are running pell mell into some pretty bad
ideas as a culture right now. And the chapter with
Mao Tse-tung you called Lenin a dictator. You call Mao
(26:51):
a revolutionary destroyer. And I just want to read this
one little quick paragraph so people can begin to understand
when we say that bad ideas have bad consequences, deadly consequences.
So it comes to power. In 49, he ruled until
his death in 1976. 27 years he's at the head
of his government in the communist regime. He has absolute
power governing over a quarter of the world's, not just China,
(27:15):
the world's population. And his tenure, you write, was catastrophic.
His leadership led to the death of at least 42.5
million of his own people from famine and violence. Some
estimates placed the number of deaths higher. Without official Chinese figures,
we cannot know the exact number. The best estimates attribute
35 to 45 million to the famine during the Great
(27:37):
Leap Forward policy. Those were the years 59 to 62
2.3 million during the Cultural Revolution. That's 66 to 76
and another 1 million during other campaigns. Given such carnage,
Mao the monster remains an apt moniker for this revolutionary
whose policies caused the deaths of those very people he
(27:57):
promised to liberate. Oh so much, I want to ask you.
So you come out of this whole idea of dynasties,
and you've got the tension going on between China and
Japan and gets into power. In 1949, was China ripe
for for a figure like Mao at this point? And
if so, why? Because people you can't be forced to follow.
He must have some sort of draw that his promises,
(28:20):
as you write throughout the book, the promises of the
perfect society, the promises creating the perfect man, what were
what were the elements of his charisma that drew the
Chinese people to say, we'll follow him?
S7 (28:32):
There was a deep problems in industrialising China after the
fall of the. The emperor and Empress and the. And
China was divided between large numbers of peasants and elite
ruling uh group class in the cities. So it was
(28:53):
both countryside and city uh division. But it should be
pointed out, as I do in Revolutionary monsters, that Mao
actually set quotas from, uh, local party people. Like how
many people had to die and how many people had to, uh,
be executed. Mao went so far into fulfilling his dream
that he actually supported publicly, uh, a nuclear war. He
(29:18):
said if China lost another, uh, million or so or
50 million people, that would still, uh, end up, uh, ahead.
Mugabe as I discussing Ussing. The short, readable chapter on him, uh,
actually used a trained train. Troops from uh, trained in
(29:39):
North Korea to commit genocide on arrival uh tribe in
which people were starved to death, villages, uh, burned and women, uh, raped.
And Khomeini. When he comes to power a month before
he dies, issues an execution uh, letter, uh, directive in
which 30,000 political prisoners were killed and, uh, by being slowly, uh, hung,
(30:04):
sometimes being hanged for hours, uh, hours before their death.
These men are, uh, monsters with, uh, dreams that of, uh,
creating the perfect society. They only turn up, turn into, uh,
cults of personality and, uh, despair and grim tragedy, uh,
in our 20th century.
S1 (30:25):
So, Dennis, the evolution, no pun intended here in these individuals,
these five men, and they're all they are monsters because
they slaughtered people left and right, all five of them.
That's clearly one of the continuous aspects of all five
of these men, is that to get people to say, look,
I don't care if you love me, I don't care
if you respect me, I'm going to get you to
fear me. So there seems to be this collective connection
(30:46):
between power and fear that all five of these men
had to use both.
S7 (30:52):
All of these men from London, Mao, Castro, Mugabe and
Khomeini already is in their youth showed great narcissism, narcissism, uh,
and great selfishness and total disregard for their fellow classmates.
And also, even as young men had dreams of, uh,
(31:15):
of seeking power, Castro sees himself as becoming the next
leader of of, uh, Cuba. Similarly, with Mao lying, uh,
has dreams for power even as a young, uh, A
young man and similarly with Khomeini, takes a little time
for the true Khomeini to come out. If I may
say one more thing. It should be said that the
(31:37):
Western press, throughout all of these men touted these men
and glorified them when they first came to power. Mugabe
was great. Uh, was was, uh, described by the Western press,
both in Europe and America, as the new African leader.
And similarly with Khomeini, when Carter sends a message to
(32:01):
Khomeini that they both are two religious men, they're going
to share the world stage. So there's a complicity among
the leaders, especially among the Western, uh, press and creating these, uh, monsters.
S1 (32:15):
Wow. So what you're saying is, in many respects, we
prop them up to that point. If you look at
President XI and China right now, he has said openly
that one of his heroes is Mao. So for people
who are going, yawn, this is a boring history lesson.
This is about moving forward. This isn't just about looking back.
So if you have China who has never mitigated their
stated goal of hegemony. If we see their monstrous buildup,
(32:37):
if we see what they're doing in Taiwan, if we
see what we've done, they've done in Hong Kong, if
we see that they're building up their nuclear warhead arsenal
as we're drawing down, it's imperative we understand exactly who
Mao was. If the current president of that communist regime
looks to Mao as his northern star for leadership. Talk
to me about that.
S7 (32:55):
Yes. Matt Key and the Chinese communist regime is intent
upon maintaining one party rule. They're anti-democratic. They think that
the Soviet Union made a mistake by introducing any form
of democracy. Uh, and that was, uh, that was their
(33:15):
great mistake because it led to the fall of the
Communist Party rule. So they have, uh, China for all
of its, uh, uh, that's having this 9% GPA growth
actually faces deep, uh, internal, uh, problems from the lack
of water demographic, uh, problems, uh, people leaving the countryside
(33:40):
and going to the cities. I've lectured, uh, uh, lectured
throughout China, uh, for any of you who have been
in Beijing, you're, uh, you have to wear a mask
there because you'll die of the, uh, smog if you
walk around. You see, uh, massive, uh, homelessness. So a
regime in order to maintain its power, such as communist
(34:03):
mainland China, has to, uh, has to create a cult
of personality, and they have to have external enemies. And
so they fear, uh, Taiwan, which is a democracy right
off their shore. And, uh, they feared, uh, Hong Kong, another, uh,
democracy and, uh, prosperous society. So they've come in finally
(34:26):
breaking any agreement that they had with Thatcher and the
English government in order to institute repression, all under the
guise of, uh, kind of free elections in which the
candidates are selected already prior to the election.
S1 (34:45):
Yeah, exactly. It's all kangaroo. Absolute kangaroo court. Let me
go to the point before, because I think it's germane
from how this being propped up by the West. So
we go to the end of the years of Mao's reign,
and then he takes a turn. You write about this
in the book to the West. He wants to open
China up to the West. Remember those famous conversations with
Richard Nixon? Why was this part of his strategy? He's
(35:07):
still looking for the perfect society, the perfect man. He's brutal.
He's killing his own people. When you're in the millions,
it's genocide, as far as I'm concerned. What was his philosophy?
His psychology? More to the point of deciding that he
would partner with the West, because certainly that's where we're
at now. We have a markedly schizophrenic policy on our
relationship with Communist China or Communist China, with Communist China.
(35:28):
Right now. So why did Mao say, I gotta turn
to the West? What was going to be in it
for him?
S7 (35:32):
Well, Mao saw economic opportunity. That's all it's about. And, uh,
he basically plays Nixon talking about markets that America can have. Well,
he's already intent on building factories and, uh, stealing intellectual property. So. And, uh,
after that meeting, in fact, Nixon is, uh, humiliated, uh,
(35:57):
at the meeting, uh, and Mao calls it, uh, all, uh, theater. Uh,
and that's what it was. So, America, uh, looks like
it has a great America, looks like it has a
great economic opportunity. And now we're dealing with the consequences
of becoming so reliant on China for so many goods.
(36:19):
I mean, 90% of our pharmaceuticals are produced in China, And, uh,
you know, so we have another pandemic that's created by China,
and they are exploring biological weapons. Uh, will, uh, will
have to ask, beg them for drugs to address the problem. Uh.
S1 (36:38):
Simply put, we'll make you sick, and then we'll give
you the cure. Wow. Amazing. The book is so important,
so crucial to the days and times in which we live.
You have to. We talk all the time about worldviews.
This really, at its core, is about worldviews and worldviews
that are right and worldviews that have deadly consequences. So
Doctor Donald Critchlow, professor at Arizona State University, studied five
(36:59):
men who were nothing more and nothing less than monsters.
But they marketed the idea of liberation, and they eventually
turned around to be tyrants. It's an important read back
after this.
S10 (37:22):
He kissed me. Hello? Hello? Zoom. In on. Me.
S1 (37:37):
So that's the Ayatollah Khomeini. And that is one of
the five men that Doctor Donald Critchlow identifies, and rightly so,
as a revolutionary monster. Five men who turned liberation into tyranny.
I've saved him for the last on because he's different
than the other four, in that this is the only
one that all is working for. A perfect society is
also likewise, his perfect society is a theocracy. That makes
(38:01):
him a little bit different. Here he uses religion as
a weapon. So talk to me about, again his ascendancy, um,
his control. It was either quite to put it in
the vernacular, it was his way or the highway. Um,
we see that very much with the ayatollahs in Iran today.
And yet, paradoxically, it's the country on planet Earth where
there's the fastest growing church. So sometimes oppression does give
(38:24):
rise to real freedom. Uh, in your faith instead. So how? How?
I mean, was it a grab a power grab here?
Because was he marketing really a better society? Did people
really believe him? Because even to this day, in a
country that's marked by its young population, why? And how
did he get power? Was it through force or was
(38:44):
he moved up the ladder?
S7 (38:47):
Uh, Khomeini, uh, rises to power, forming a coalition against
the Shah. And that coalition included a Marxist, uh, along
with the Soviet Union as well as liberals who think
who believe that Khomeini was going to create, uh, popular democracy.
(39:08):
And then it also includes, uh, Islamic extremists who understand,
who want a theocracy. Uh, so Khomeini doesn't, uh, present
that he's going to, uh, to the press and to
the people, this coalition that he's going to create a theocracy.
But it should be noted that when he's placed into
exile in Paris, uh, having been expelled now from Iraq, uh, he, uh,
(39:33):
he has the liberals, uh, Iranians around him, well educated,
who translate for him at press conferences. So his talk of, uh, uh,
denouncing women wearing Western skirts and dress is translated by
the French speaking Iranian, uh, liberals who are believing, uh, Khomeini.
(39:56):
It's translated to the Western press. And Khomeini is writing these, uh, uh, uh,
books and also giving speeches that are widely circulating on tape, uh,
sermons and his writings, it should be said, and I've
(40:17):
only read them in translation, uh, his scholarly works are
full or just rants against Jews and Western imperialist ideas.
He is opposed to democracy, uh, in these books very clearly. And, uh,
he's also a conspiracy theorist. There's very little scholarship in them. There's, uh, deep,
(40:42):
deep anti-Semitism and anti-Jewish and anti-Christian views in his writings.
S1 (40:50):
Wow. Amazing. You draw a distinction on what you call
the politicizing of Islam. In fact, you call it political Islam.
Explain to our listeners what you mean by that.
S7 (41:00):
Well, in the, uh, in the beginning of, uh, the
the first resistance to, uh, the Shah and the Shah
finding himself in an untenable position of trying to modernize
a very traditional and still peasant society, uh, opposition emerges
among the youth who, uh, and some intellectuals in exile
(41:23):
that Islam needs to be politicized. There shouldn't just be
a religion, but it should be a tool for political, uh,
political change. And so the Western, uh, trained, uh, uh,
Iranian intellectuals tried to fuse Marxism, communist ideas with Islam.
They participate in the revolution only to find themselves being
(41:47):
shot by Revolutionary Guards and imprisoned. And later, as I mentioned, uh,
earlier in our conversation, uh, executing within, uh, as political prisoners,
30,000 at least were killed, uh, under Khamenei's orders.
S1 (42:06):
Unbelievable that I see a parallel here between Mao and
the connection to President XI and Khomeini. And what we
have now with the ayatollahs. So this wasn't a bad
chapter of Iranian history. His footprints are all over the
country now. So how much of who he was is
being put forth now by the ayatollahs?
S7 (42:25):
Well, uh, it's, uh, again, the, uh, the new ruling
regime with the supreme leader is modeled after Khamenei's, uh, design.
So they present themselves as kind of, uh, simple, simple men.
But there's great wealth behind them. Uh, and the Revolutionary
Guard now controls huge chunks of the economy, including construction and, uh, defense,
(42:52):
as well as nuclear weapons development. It's very corrupt. Uh,
and that's that. And many of the young people who just, uh,
see what the consequences of this regime are, are, uh,
deserting it. Uh, but they're, uh, as, as well as
many of the there's been uprisings in the last year,
(43:12):
resistance in the, uh, in the, in the Outlying regions,
and so the regime is mobilized Revolutionary Guards troops to
crush this resistance. And I might add that America has been, uh,
quite lax in, uh, supporting, uh, this resistance.
S1 (43:32):
100%. So Don and I want to tell our friends
who are listening all across the country that there is
a ton of information in this book. I have literally
skated across the surface. It is such an important read.
But I want to ask the last question, and I
think it's on a lot of people's minds, Don, which
is okay, interesting history, troublesome history. But why is your
book germane to where we are in the United States
(43:54):
right now, and what lessons must we learn?
S7 (43:57):
We need to learn, uh, our youth needs to learn
that they could be beguiled by talk of social justice.
Social justice could be achieved. But we're not going to
create a perfect society. But we should remain optimistic. Very optimistic.
I see a lot of good things happening, uh, with
resistance in the classroom and with parents.
S1 (44:19):
Yeah, absolutely. And what a note. What a wonderfully positive
note to end on. Donna, I thank you so much.
Let me get my friends again the information in their
hands so they can read this book. I want you
to go to my website in the market with Janet Parshall.
Click on that red box. It says Program Details and Audio.
It will take you over to the information page. There.
You're going to have a longer bio of Doctor Donald Critchlow, very,
(44:41):
very prolific author. You heard me say that before. He's
the author and editor of over 23 books. I just
named a couple of titles, but also there's the book
we've been discussing this, Our Revolutionary Monsters, five Men Who
Turned liberation into Tyranny. It's important if you care about worldviews,
because worldviews then portend ideas, and ideas portend action. It
(45:02):
also speaks to what we're starting to embrace in this country,
in a state of ignorance, because we don't understand how
easily we can be wooed by tyranny. Donna, thank you
so much, friends. Thank you. Get the book and read it.
We'll see you next time.
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