July 15, 2025 • 44 mins
Author, pastor, and scholar Sam Storms will join us to unpack the meaning and power of prayer through a close reading of Scripture with special focus on the life and ministry of Jesus, the apostle Paul, and James. With scholarly wisdom and pastoral application, he will address topics like persisting in prayer, praying for pleasure, and warfare prayer, exploring how prayer is a profoundly supernatural experience. Come with us on a journey into the heart of prayer and learn how to transform it from a mere ritual to a deeply personal spiritual experience that develops and grows our knowledge, understanding, and hunger for God.
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S1 (00:00):
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S2 (01:50):
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S1 (02:19):
Hi, friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall.
So glad we're going to spend the hour together. We're
going to take up the subject of prayer. Wait, wait.
Come back, come back I get it, I get it.
Isn't that amazing? I mean, those of us who have
confessed with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe
in our heart that God has raised him from the dead.
We should be so excited about the topic of prayer
and if we each were given a dose of sodium pentathol,
(02:42):
I think most of us would say, ooh, I get distracted,
my mind wanders, I don't know, I'm not disciplined enough.
I don't like the ritualism of prayer. I'm not sure
that God hears or he cares. And what difference does
it make? God can't get his mind changed. So why
am I bothering to pray anyway? And we fall into
this somersault of excuses, of ignoring this privilege of talking
(03:03):
to a king. Now I got to tell you, God,
in his mercy and his sovereignty, has had me meet
a whole lot of important people in the world. And
there are rules of deportment. And when you're allowed to
speak and you don't touch and you don't say anything
until you're given permission, I have been told in his
word that I get to walk. No, I get to
run boldly into the throne of grace and talk to
(03:25):
the King of all kings. And yet, well, we just
kind of linger outside the door of the throne room,
don't we? I don't get it. Well, thank you, Lord,
for raising up superb teachers. I can't come up with
enough adjectives to describe how much I love and respect
doctor sandstorms. What a great Bible teacher he is. He's
written a book on this topic called Understanding Prayer Biblical
Foundations and Practical Guidance for Seeking God. There's so much
(03:48):
in this book that let the record show your honor
that we couldn't possibly cover it in one conversation, so
we're going to pick up where we left off the
last time and really start to understand prayer and maybe,
maybe just have a radical recognition of why this is
such a precious privilege and something that we should be
engaged in on a regular basis. Can I give you
the formal intro to Doctor Sam Storms? Although if you
(04:08):
listen regularly, you know this man as much as I do,
and you love him as well. He pastored Bridgeway Church
in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma for 14 years. He's the founder
of Enjoying God Ministries. He serves as a member of
the Council of the Gospel Coalition. He is the past
president of the Evangelical Theological Society. They don't let just
anybody do that, by the way. He served for four
years as a visiting associate professor of theology at Wheaton College.
(04:31):
He's a prolific author. He's written a ton of books
The Beginner's Guide to Spiritual Gifts, The Singing God. Feel
the passion God has for you just the way you are.
Tough topics. Don't we know that? That's something we talk
about a lot in this program. The list goes on
and on and on. And a dozen things God did
with your sin and three things he'll never do. And
now his newest one understanding prayer biblical foundations and practical
(04:54):
guidance for seeking God. Sam, the warmest of welcomes. Thank
you so much. Let me. I may hearken back to
a couple of questions I asked when we had our
first conversation on this book, and I just need to
point out to my friends that we didn't get a
16th of the way into the book. There's that much
in there. That's how important and rich this conversation is.
But let me ask you an appeal to your shepherd's heart.
Why is it that most of us sheep are reticent
(05:17):
when it comes to prayer? Why do we think it's
something I have to do? It's not something I want
to do. I don't know how many Christians say I
just pant for that time when I get to be
alone with God. Why is that?
S7 (05:29):
That's a great question, Janet. Actually, believe it or not,
there are a few people who do pant for prayer.
They can't think of doing anything else. That's why I've
wondered if maybe intercession is a spiritual gift that isn't
explicitly mentioned in Scripture. People who are just born to
be on their knees just love seeking God for others
(05:51):
and nothing brings them greater delight than doing that. I
wish there were more like that. But even if somebody says, well,
I don't have the gift of intercession. That doesn't take
away the obligation you have to be in prayer. So yeah,
we are all called upon by God to do this.
I think one of the reasons you just mentioned several,
there are so many distractions in today's world. Um, you know,
(06:13):
I think back on my theological hero, Jonathan Edwards, and
how he spent 13 hours a day in his study
and had ten children to care for and a wife.
And yet he didn't have the distraction of a telephone
or a computer or TV or, uh, you know, professional
sports and athletics and all these many things that that
(06:35):
distract us. Um, you know, he didn't have to worry
about a phone call coming in, interrupting his prayer time.
We have so many distractions, so many. Our lives are
fractured and splintered in so many ways, with so many obligations.
That's one of the big reasons. I think a second
reason is that, um, prayer does not always lead to
(06:57):
what we would call tangible results. And it's frustrating because
we bring so many requests to the Lord that we
have great burdens and needs, and sometimes it's delayed. Sometimes
an answer comes back, no, sometimes when the answer is yes, it's,
you know, maybe a year or two down the road. Um,
and I think, I think that just kind of discourages people.
(07:18):
And then, you know, the one thing that we talked
about in our last show is, as I'm recalling it,
is that there is a very, very bad and unbiblical
theological assumption that a lot of people have, and that
is that God is going to do for me, apart
from my praying what he says in His word, he'll
only do if I pray. We have this idea. Well,
(07:39):
he's God, he's generous, he's good. He always wants to
do wonderful things. So even if I'm too busy to
pray and he knows I'm busy, you know he'll let
me off the hook. He'll give me that anyway. And
I think it's a horribly unbiblical and arrogant assumption. We
should never assume that God is going to do for us,
apart from prayer, what he says in His Word. He'll
(08:00):
only do through prayer and in response to it. So
I think we need to get past that hurdle as well.
And then I think also, if I can stand another,
I think it's the fourth reason I'm giving here. I
think Satan and the demonic realm realized the the importance
and the power of Christians praying, and they do everything
they can to discourage us. They do everything they can
(08:22):
to distract us. Um, you know, we we, we have
very short attention spans. And when we sit quietly and we. Well,
I don't even know what I need to pray about
right now. You know, one of the things I tell
people all the time is, why don't you just pray
the Bible? Open up the Psalms. Just read the Psalms
back to God. Uh, read the apostolic prayers in the
(08:44):
New Testament. Um, that's a way of keeping your mind
engaged and your heart focused. And also it will enable
you to pray for the right things. Because so many times,
you know, the list of our prayer requests differs vastly
from that of the apostles or David or any of
the other psalmists. So praying back the Bible is one of,
I think, the most effective ways to stay focused on
(09:06):
this particular discipline.
S1 (09:08):
Wow, what a wonderful answer. Thank you for that, Sam.
When we come back, I want to get into some
of the pragmatics. The book is filled with pragmatics, by
the way you look at the prayer life of Jesus
and of Peter and of others in Scripture, as well
as illustrations of how we can have an effective and
vibrant prayer life. And going to the title of the
book how We can Really Understand the Power of Prayer.
So when we come back, I want to talk about
(09:30):
the chapter you called Praying in Jesus Name, Magical Incantation
or Pathway to Power. I said that friend, so you
can think about it during the break and Doctor Sam
Storms will break that down for us when we return
back after this. Street evangelist Ray comfort has spent decades
(09:56):
pointing people to Jesus, and I want you to do
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month's truth tool. Ray shares proven methods for sharing your
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As for your copy of Why Jesus, when you give
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that's eight 7758 or go to. In the market with
(10:17):
Janet Parshall. Always a joy to spend the hour with
Doctor Sam Storms. He is a pastor, teacher, theologian, writer, blogger.
The list goes on and on and on. He's got
a new book out. All of his books are fabulous.
This one's called Understanding Prayer Biblical Foundations, and Practical Guidance
for Seeking God. So let me go back to the chapter,
(10:37):
because I think sometimes the ritualism, uh, is a turnoff
for some people. They're thinking, well, that's not going to
hear it unless I do. The acts, prayer and all
these and acronyms are things that we use to try
to think that somehow that's an effective prayer. Um, and
yet I, I don't the argument could be made that
I don't see that. I mean, sometimes my best prayers
are help, and that's sufficient in and of itself. But
(11:00):
I love the way you say, is it a magical
incantation or pathway to prayer? And you start with the
verse in John, and maybe this is a good place
to kick this off. Whatever you ask in my name,
this I will do, that the father may be glorified
in the son. If you ask me anything in my name,
I will do it. Now, I gotta tell you, I
think this is when you let the world teach you
theology or you practice really sloppy exegesis. You're thinking, well,
(11:23):
there he is. And God suddenly becomes. And I say
this recognizing he's a holy God, the ATM in the sky.
I asked for it. I did it in Jesus name,
I expect it. And then when God doesn't deliver, we
start thinking, well, maybe he's not the God he said
he is, or we start questioning our own faith. What
did I do wrong that I didn't get God to
do what I wanted him to do because I asked
in his name. This is one of those fascinating passages
(11:47):
of Scripture that, if misapplied and misunderstood, I think can
have people shrink back from their faith rather than grow
up in it. Break it down for us, please.
S7 (11:54):
Well, sure. Yeah. The key, obviously, is in understanding what
he means when he says in my name. You know,
there are a lot of things entailed by that. One
of them is that means we're not praying in my
name and in his name. In other words, we're not
praying on the basis of who I am or what
I deserve, or that God will pay me back for
all of my devotion, all of my sacrifices. And again,
(12:17):
I'd also tell people, you don't have to actually say
the words in Christ's name. I, I know one pastor
and it always caught me by surprise. He would pray
and then at the end he would just say, Amen.
And I always wonder why? Why didn't he say in
Christ's name? So we talked about it and he said,
I don't think that there's any magical power in in
(12:37):
saying those words. And he's exactly right. So it's less
a formula than it is an expression of faith. It's
basically saying, I'm coming to the father in the name
of the son. And what that means is, anything that
I receive from the God is because of what Jesus
has done for me. It's because of the finality of
(12:57):
his work on the cross, his resurrection. Um, he is
the reason for I am praying. It is for his
glory and not mine. Uh, you know, think about all
the places in the New Testament where the name of Christ.
You know, we baptize in the name of Jesus. We
perform church discipline in the name of Jesus. People are
healed in the name of Jesus. And again, it's not
(13:18):
by throwing out that name and thinking, well, if I
say it, just the right inflection, just the right intensity
of my voice, you know, God will wake up and say, wow,
there's somebody who's really serious. That's not it at all.
Like you said, that treats prayer as if it's a god's,
the genie in a bottle. And we've got to rub
it just the number of times to get him to
come out. Right. No, I think it means approaching the
(13:39):
throne of grace and fully aware of who we are,
that we don't have anything that merits an answer, that
we can't do anything that's going to coerce God or
control him. It means, for also, we always ought to
ask in our prayer request is what I'm asking for
consistent with who Jesus is, his nature, his character, his worth,
(14:00):
his value to us. We have to ask the question,
what are the objectives and goals that Jesus Himself sought
after in his earthly life? Do we have the glory
of God primarily in view, or is it the glory
and the promotion of ourselves? Obviously, we have to have
his fame as foremost in our hearts. We have to
(14:23):
be doing it, praying on the basis of what Christ
accomplished on the cross. All of those things, and many,
many others are wrapped up in the phrase in Christ's name.
It's all about who he is. Um, so you remember,
I think in, uh, I think it's in acts three.
Is it where they healed the guy who was a paralytic?
And when they were challenged, Peter said, it is not
(14:44):
because of me or my name that this is done,
but only the name of Christ. You know the one
name given among men by which we can be saved.
So I love I always in my prayers within Christ's name,
but I don't do it because I think, well, if I,
if I if I fail to do that, have I
just emptied my prayers of any power and God will say,
(15:04):
sorry you had you had me up to a point, Sam,
but then you lost it because you didn't say the
magical words, right? Yeah. We've got to be careful not
to think of prayer that way, or think of God
that way, because that that really is an insult to him,
to think that he would respond to us in that fashion.
He's not concerned with, you know, people I have people
(15:24):
I've talked to people. And I say, why don't you
ever pray in in public? You know, when other people
do and they say, well, my theology is not real
good and my grammar is off, and I'm afraid God
will take offense if I, you know, use the wrong
using a subjective case instead of an objective. Or if
I say something that's a little theologically off center, I
say you really think your heavenly father, who went to
(15:46):
the lengths he did to save your soul from hell,
is going to be bothered by that and refused to
answer you because you're not the most eloquent person on
the face of the earth. And they say, oh, well,
I guess so. So yeah, but all of that is
wrapped up in praying in Christ's name.
S1 (16:02):
Yes, yes. So if I may, let me linger, Sam,
on this one, because I worry that there are some
people who will step away because they think he's not
the God he has said he is to us. So
let's take the issue of suffering and you touch on
this in this particular chapter. So someone prays, quote, in
his name in accordance to his will. Knowing who Jesus is,
(16:22):
heal my child and the child doesn't get healed. Then
they look at this passage in John and they're going,
but wait a minute, I prayed it in his name,
and that I was told that the father would be glorified.
Certainly my sick child being healed would bring nothing but
glory to him. But the answer was no. And then
the unraveling begins. How do we, as maturing saints handle that?
(16:43):
Because there is prayer here. But this is linked inexorably
to what a lot of people think are the outcomes
of prayer. My concern is, I think we're so focused
sometimes on the outcome. We forget about the privilege and
purpose of prayer.
S7 (16:56):
You're so very right, and I wish that I had
a perfect answer to that question. I wish I could
point to a text of Scripture that would put people's
concerns and fears at rest. Um, but it it is
a profoundly complex question. And I hear the music, which
means I'm going to try to come up with a
decent answer when we come back from the break.
S1 (17:18):
And you always do, sir. You always do. Doctor Sam
Storms is with us. His newest book is called Understanding
Prayer Biblical Foundations and Practical Guidance for Seeking God. I
love it because in full transparency, I struggle like everyone
else because I want to remember the privilege and the
preciousness of praying, not see it as a burden or
a responsibility or a ritual that I'm somehow not getting right.
(17:41):
This book just opened my eyes in so many ways,
and I know it'll do the same thing for you
back after this.
S8 (17:59):
In times of sorrow. Seasons of pain. When all seems hopeless,
one thing remains. Our God is faithful and his word
(18:24):
is true. He said, call on his name And he
will answer you.
S1 (18:35):
Good song. We're talking about prayer with Doctor Sam Storms
because his latest book is called Understanding Prayer Biblical Foundations
and Practical Guidance for Seeking God. You know, I'm taking
my time in these conversations with Sam because there is
so much on this extremely important component of the believer's life.
So we're on a chapter right now. That Doctor Storms
is called praying in Jesus's name, magical incantation or Pathway
(18:59):
to Prayer. And he starts with that passage that so
many of us know from John where it says, point blank,
whatever you ask in my name, this I will do,
that the father may be glorified in the son. If
you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.
So I raised a hypothetical because I bet a whole
bunch of people were thinking about the same hypothetical, or
one just like it. So you go to the Lord,
(19:19):
you pray in his name that your child will be
healed and your child is not. Now that starts an
unraveling process either. God is not a promise keeping God
either I didn't do enough ritualism or something wrong in
the way I was supposed to do this incantation. And
it raises a panoply of questions that can leave a
believer bruised, battered, and really misunderstanding the character of God.
(19:41):
So you had the entire break to come up with
the perfect answer, Sam, and I can't wait to hear it.
S7 (19:48):
Give me an entire lifetime. And I don't know if
I come up with a really good answer. Um, you know,
one of the things that we do have to remember
is obviously that when we pray, we always say, Lord,
I don't know what your will is in this matter.
I don't know what you want to do, but help
me learn how to submit to it, whatever it is,
even if it's contrary to what I've asked for. I mean,
(20:10):
so many times in the life of Paul, we see
him say this. I was thinking in the break about
Romans 15 when he asked the Romans to pray for him, uh,
so that by God's will he says, I may come
to you with joy and be refreshed in your company. Well,
those are pretty good desires. I want to I want
to come to you with joy. I want to be
refreshed by you and you by me. But I don't
(20:32):
know that if it's God's will or not, but I'm
going to ask him to do it anyway. So basically
what we come down to is, um, there are a
couple of questions that we need to ask ourselves. Number one,
deep down inside, do I really want God to do
what I've just asked him to do, given the fact
that he is infinitely wise, infinitely resourceful, that he has
(20:56):
promised that he will always do whatever is for my
ultimate spiritual good. Maybe when I ask him for something
and it doesn't happen, it's because he knows far better
than I do that that would not accomplish for me
what I think it would. But in fact, it might
even be a deterrent to my spiritual growth. Um, you know,
I'm I kind of have to respond to this practical
(21:19):
question kind of in a larger theological context. It drew
me back to, uh, Paul's statement in Romans eight when
he said, he who did not spare his own son,
but gave him up for us all, how will he
not also with him graciously give us all things? I thought, wow, well,
what's included in the all things? Does that mean that
(21:42):
since God gave his Son to die for me, he'll
give me anything that I ask for? Well, we have
to understand that the all things, at least I believe
in light of the teaching of Scripture, is whatever is
necessary for me to walk in a way that glorifies God,
and that ultimately leads me to flourish as a believer
both now and in eternity future. Do I really believe
(22:06):
that God will give me everything necessary for me to
live a a productive, God glorifying life? Even. Even if
I'm suffering? I mean, think about, uh, think about individuals,
Christians who've been incarcerated in the third world countries in
prison for nothing more than being believers. Um, I had
(22:27):
a friend whose name was Timothy Chung, and Timothy was
in a prisoner of war. He was in a camp
in China for years and years and years. And all
through that time he was doing God's will. He was
praying that he would be released. And after, gosh, I
think it was 15 or 20 years he was released.
And his testimony has blessed more people than you and
(22:48):
I could possibly imagine. So I don't profess to have
any clear cut, definitive answers for why the things we
ask for, whether we think really in of themselves are good,
like the like the preservation of a child's life. I mean,
I think about about that horrific situation down in Kerrville
with those flash floods, and I've been devastated by that.
(23:10):
And I said, Lord, I don't understand. I know those parents.
This is a Christian camp. I know they would have
prayed before they let their kids go. Lord, protect them,
keep them safe, keep them close to you. And yet
now they're left without a child, some of them without
more than one child. And I don't understand that. But
if in fact, Romans 828 is true, and I hate,
(23:33):
I hate sometimes doing this because we think Romans 828
is kind of like a pacifier. Somebody Christians crying. Well,
we'll just jam that verse in their mouth and it'll
it'll calm them down. That's not what it's meant to do.
It's meant to encourage us that we know that for
those who love God, all things work together for good,
for those who are called according to his purpose. Well be.
(23:54):
All things are ultimately those things which most honor him,
which is our humble dependency, our determined resilience to trust
him in faith even when things go differently than how
we had hoped that they would. So there's so many
of those things. You know, I've got a lot of
I've got a lot of things on my prayer list
that I've been asking for for quite some time, and
(24:15):
some of them haven't happened yet. And it forces me
to ask the question of myself, Sam, is God himself.
S9 (24:21):
Enough for you.
S7 (24:23):
Or you must you have these additional things.
S9 (24:25):
Is God sufficiently enough for you that you can thrive
as his child in this world? Or must you have
these things you're asking for?
S1 (24:34):
Boy. Exclamation point. Underlined. Thank you for that, Sam. Let
me take a break and come right back. Doctor Sam Storm,
our guest. His book Understanding prayer. More after this. With
(24:54):
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(25:16):
Janet Parshall. If you are just joining us, the warmest
of welcomes. We're talking to Doctor Sam Storms. He pastored
Bridgeway Church in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma for 14 years. He's
the founder of Enjoying God Ministries, serves as a member
of the Council of the Gospel Coalition, past president of
the Evangelical Theological Society, served for four years as a
(25:38):
visiting associate professor of theology at Wheaton College, and a
very prolific author who's written a whole bunch of books.
Have a link to his website. It is like the
Library of Congress. It's a treasure trove of information, so
check it out. A ton of things there. And also
the focus of this hour's conversation is his latest book
called Understanding Prayer. If you just joined us. Thank you, Lord,
for the new technology. Didn't miss a thing? Just go
(26:00):
to where your favorite podcast can be found. Download in
the market with Janet Parshall. Put in today's date and
you'll be able to hear this broadcast from the beginning
at your convenience. But you are going to want to
go back and hear how we started this conversation. So
the full title, Understanding Prayer Biblical Foundations and Practical Guidance
for Seeking God. So I want to go to the
pragmatics if I can here for a bit in the
(26:21):
same chapter, Sam, you talk about the four essentials for
effective prayer. Everybody needs to hear this. What are those
four essentials?
S7 (26:30):
Yeah. Well we've covered one of them, which is praying
in Christ's name and everything that's entailed by that. And again,
if people are just joining us, we're not saying that
these are magical words like abracadabra, that's somehow going to
guarantee you get the response that you want. It means
praying in the fullness of the understanding of who Christ is,
what he's like, what he wants, what he's accomplished for us.
(26:53):
And then, of course, secondly, we have to pray for
the father's glory. Jesus said in in John 14 he said,
pray in his name so that the father may be
glorified in the son. And he says the same thing
in John 15 he said, by this, by this my
father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so
prove to be my disciples. And he said that right
(27:14):
after he said, and this happens when you pray in
my name. So again, it's sometimes it's hard for us
to have the glory of God as central in our
focus when we're praying, because we're so consumed by our
own hurt, our own need, our own frustrations. But if
we can actually say, Lord, I don't know how this
(27:36):
situation is best going to glorify you, but that's what
I want. If saying no to my request is going
to be somehow bring greater glory to you than you
saying yes, help me to understand it. Help me to
submit to that. And then the third thing is abiding
in Christ. Jesus said, if you abide in me and
my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish and
it will be done for you. And again, that sounds
(27:58):
like a well, that's easy. Two plus two equals four.
Well then we just have to start asking, what does
it mean to abide.
S1 (28:04):
In.
S7 (28:04):
Christ? What have his words abide in us? I mean,
there's so much richness there. Um, do we really abide
in him? And then I break down what that means. I,
I do it with four words. It means that we remain.
We don't wander. We stay riveted, consciously intent on staying
connected with Jesus in every way. It also means that
(28:24):
we rest. We don't strive to try to, you know,
put God in our debt and say, God, look at
all the things I've done for you. Look at the
sacrifices I made. Look how much money I gave to
the church. And then the word reflect is the third word,
and that is simply thinking about meditating upon Jesus, honoring
Him and His words in ways that, uh, maybe we
(28:47):
hadn't done before. And then finally, I like the word
rejoice worshiping. Um, so all of those things are involved
in abiding in him. Uh, and so and of course,
his words abide in us. And that doesn't just mean
that we memorize scripture, although that's important, or that we
meditate on them. It means that we do them. We
obey them. We are consciously saying, Lord, help me to
(29:10):
take your word seriously and implement them by the power
of your spirit in my life. And then the fourth
thing is praying so that our joy may be full.
Now that that might sound a little self-serving, but listen
to what Jesus said. He said, in that day you
will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you,
whatever you ask of the father in my name, he
will give it to you. Until now, you have asked
(29:33):
nothing in my name. Ask. I love this. Ask and
you will receive that your joy may be full. Wow.
I mean, I have a lot of joy and a
lot of things that I shouldn't. And the scriptures kind
of pull back the, the, the curtain on that and say, Sam,
you are delighting in stuff that's really bad. It's not
(29:55):
honoring to the Lord. Um, so I think the joy
that we receive, Jesus says, is the joy that he
himself had. He said, my joy will be in you
and your joy in me. So all of these things
are involved in, um, in praying according to God's will
and in a way that will honor him and glorify
(30:15):
him and bring us greatest delight in who he is
and what he's done for us.
S1 (30:19):
Yeah. Amen. Now, let me take what you said. And
I love the way that we can take those principles
and precepts. And then I love the way they come
alongside a personality. So let's go to the one who
wrote the majority of the New Testament. So here's Paul
with his thorn in the side, one of the many
millions of questions yet to be answered when we are
standing in his presence. And if anybody could pray effectually,
(30:41):
if anybody would pray in Jesus's name. I would say
it's Brother Paul, and I bet he knows everything about
remaining and resting and reflecting and rejoicing. And yet that
thorn was never removed. So there's a there's a dichotomy there.
How do we square the fact that if anybody would
have done this, it would have been someone who was
(31:01):
transported to the third heaven, who was literally blinded by Christ,
who went from being a domestic terrorist to being a
man whose head would be severed from his shoulders for
the cause of the cross. This is a man who
would have effective prayer, and certainly that thorn would have
been removed. What happened? Again, I asked this, Sam, because everybody,
when they're praying, I think until we re-orientate our thinking
(31:21):
is thinking outcomes, not participation. So here he didn't get
the outcome he wanted that the outcome that he prayed for.
But I bet he did everything. Every jot and tittle,
crossed every T, dotted every die and didn't get what
he prayed for. How come?
S7 (31:36):
By the way, one of the most important this is
this isn't so much related to prayer, but it's one
of the most important lessons from this story. If I
had been translated into the third heaven, and I saw
the things that Paul saw that he said, I'm not
even allowed to speak. They're so glorious and great. And
I came back to earth. I just don't think I
could ever go.
S10 (31:55):
Oh. Me too.
S7 (31:56):
My soul.
S10 (31:56):
To sin. Me too.
S7 (31:58):
I'd be totally sanctified. Perfect in all my ways. And yet,
here's Paul. When he somehow is back connected with his
body or whatever it was that happened to him. What's
the first thing that he does? Pride. Pride. That's why
he had the thorn in the flesh. He says to
keep me from thinking of myself more than. More than
I should. I. That just. That's just mind blowing to me.
(32:22):
But aside from that, let's get back to your question.
S1 (32:25):
Also, by the way, I would need gaff tape because
I've been told not to say anything. Um, I don't know.
That'd be. That'd be the hard part for me. But.
But when you've had an encounter with the living God,
I think you take that pretty seriously.
S7 (32:38):
Oh, my. Yes. But it is really instructive. We think
that some supernatural. This is one of the most glorious
supernatural experiences in the Bible. I don't know if it's
maybe Isaiah and Isaiah six or John in the book
of Revelation, but this one comes close to those. And
we think, if I could just have one of those,
I would never sin again.
S10 (32:56):
God. Right, right.
S7 (32:57):
Oh, really?
S10 (32:58):
Really. All right, getting back to the question.
S7 (33:02):
It took Paul. You know, it says he prayed three times.
I think he meant three sustained seasons of prayer.
S10 (33:08):
I agree.
S7 (33:09):
Asking once. Twice three. No, over an extended period of time.
And the Lord basically said, look, Paul, I have a
purpose in that thorn. And in letting it remain there,
whatever it is, and that purpose that you're going to
accomplish by means of your trust in me, in spite
of the thorn, is greater than anything that could accomplish
if I were to take it away. He said, my,
(33:31):
my grace is sufficient for you. My power is made
perfect in weakness. So I you know, there are things
that I've had in my life where I thought, Lord,
if you'll just take away this affliction or do this
for me, I will honor you and celebrate your grace
more than I ever would before. And God says, hold
on a minute, fella. Uh, that's not necessarily true. The
(33:55):
way that you can magnify my sufficiency, my resourcefulness, my beauty,
my glory, and show to others that I'm worthy of
your affection. Even when you don't get things that you
think you have to have. And that's what he's saying
to Paul. And and I love Paul's response. Um, he says,
by the way, in verse ten, I don't like the
(34:16):
way the ESV translate this. He says, for the sake
of Christ, then I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, calamities.
No it's not. I'm content. It's literally I rejoice in these.
It's very clear word in the Greek text. And think
of all the things he's talking about weakness, insults, hardships,
persecutions and calamities. And he says, for when I am weak.
(34:40):
And by we could add to that, for when I
am weak, and God doesn't answer me to get me
out of weakness, into strength, when I remain weak, then
I am strong. Strong for what? For my personal welfare
or ultimately for the glory of God's grace and the
sufficiency of who Jesus is? So yeah, if we could
all keep this in mind and let Paul's experience become ours. Now,
(35:04):
that doesn't mean that God's going to give everybody a
thorn in the flesh, whatever that is. Um, it doesn't
mean that if he does give you one, that he
won't take it away. Uh, you know, I think of
Paul's prayers for Epaphroditus in Philippians two. He said Epaphroditus
had sacrificed so much to come to me in Rome,
and yet he fell ill almost to the point of death.
And he said, I was about to grieve myself into
(35:26):
the ground, but God had mercy on him. And yet,
if we look at all the circumstances, it took a
long time for the the prayer request for Epaphroditus as
healing to be answered. It's interesting because Epaphroditus got sick.
It took time for news to go back to remember
they're there in Rome. It had to take time to
(35:47):
go back to Philippi, so the church in Philippi would
hear about it, and then it had to take some
time for the news to come back from Philippi to Rome,
to tell Epaphroditus. We're really concerned over you. It probably
took months, but then it says that God healed him.
The Lord said. Paul said God had mercy on him.
So sometimes prayer answers to prayer are delayed, sometimes months,
(36:09):
sometimes years. Uh, sometimes the answer doesn't come till we
get to heaven.
S9 (36:14):
Um, but then we won't have any complaints.
S1 (36:16):
That's exactly right. It's exactly right. So based on what
you just said, you asked the question. Is it really
the case that God can actually say no to our
prayer requests? Just think about that question, and then you're
going to hear what Doctor Sam Storms has to say.
And when he picked up from J.I. Packer as the
response to that as well. Fabulous book on prayer. It's
called Understanding Prayer Biblical Foundations and Practical Guidance for Seeking God.
(36:40):
Who among us can't read a book like this and
see our prayer life improved back after this? Writer. Pastor. Teacher. Theologian. Thinker.
Wonderful man. Doctor Sam Storms is with us. His latest
(37:03):
book is called Understanding Prayer Biblical Foundations and Practical Guidance
for Seeking God. So as you round out this chapter
and by the way, this is just one chapter of
the book. This is what I mean when I tell
you it's so rich, I don't want to rush through this.
I want to savor every part of this book because
I just, I believe, not condemnation. I'm looking at myself
in the mirror. But there's so much improvement in our
(37:23):
prayer lives. I think it's just we fail to understand
the power, the approachability and the person we're talking to.
So you say, first of all, and I love this, Sam,
you and I've talked about in the past, I'm so
thankful that the Lord has not said yes to every
prayer request I ever had. I would be in a
heap of trouble. So I'm so thankful that he does
this according to his good and perfect will. And so
(37:46):
I'm praising him for that. But then the second question
you posit is this idea does God ever really say
no to our prayers? And you hearken us to look
at the words of J.I. Packer. Talk to us about this.
S7 (37:57):
Yeah. Oh, what a glorious man of God.
S10 (38:00):
I was so.
S7 (38:00):
Saddened when he passed away. I was all in. Planning
on going to his memorial service. But it happened right
in the middle of Covid and they wouldn't let us
get up there. But yeah, Doctor Packer had some just
profound insights. Um, God always responds to us when we
come to him humbly in the name of the Lord
Jesus and in a spirit of not arrogance or entitlement,
(38:25):
but just desperation, he will always respond. The response obviously
sometimes is yes, we. That's wonderful. Sometimes, as Packer points out,
it's God saying, well, you think that A is the
best way to to respond to your request, when in
fact really it's Z. And in order for Z to
(38:46):
come about, I'm going to have to delay responding to
you because other circumstances have to be worked out that
I'll providentially control. Or he might be saying, um, you know,
the I'm going to say yes to your prayer, but
not in the way you expected it. Uh, so it's like, uh,
a little boy, you know, desperate for, uh, a tricycle
(39:08):
at Christmas. And his dad instead gives him a regular bicycle,
even though he doesn't know how to ride it yet.
And the boy's disappointed. He says, well, wait a minute.
You're going to have a whole lot more fun on
the bicycle than you would a tricycle. Sometimes, obviously, God
just says, wait, uh, sometimes he says, look, you need
to adjust the terms of your request. Uh, you know,
(39:30):
in writing books, uh, so many times, editors will come
back and say, uh, Sam, that's not the best way
to express that. Let's try this. Use a different word,
use a use a synonym here or there. And sometimes
God says, I'm trying to form your mind and shape
your heart and your values in such a way that
you will always ask in accordance with what most honors
(39:54):
and glorifies me and is for your best. So I
think there's always an answer. No, wait. Not that way.
But this way. Not at this time, but at another time.
And then, of course, you know, you got to. We
have to be honest. I ask people all the time.
I say, do you really think that? You know. What
is best for your soul more than God does?
S10 (40:17):
I mean.
S7 (40:17):
Do you really think that this thing that you have
persistently asked for and you're convinced that it's the absolutely
best thing that could ever happen to you, and that
God somehow is coming up short and his theory just
doesn't work as well. Are we seriously saying that the
infinitely wise God. And I go back to the Romans
eight passage, the one who who went to the greatest
(40:40):
degree of sacrifice possible in giving us his Son, how
will he not, together with him, graciously give us? And
I want to expand on it all things that are
necessary for our joy. All things that are necessary for
our conformity to Christ. All things that are necessary for
us to flourish in this life and lay up treasure
in the next life. And the answer to that is,
(41:00):
of course he will. Of course he will. It's just so. Yeah,
the answer to the question is God always responds when
we come to him in the way that the Word
of God tells us to.
S1 (41:10):
Yeah. Amen. Isn't there a comfort? It is for me,
I think, in my prayer life anyway, that I'll pray.
But I always stop and say, but you're God and
I'm not, and your thoughts are way above mine. And
if this isn't what you want, if this isn't what
you're good and perfect will is, then I don't want
it either. I always put that in there because it's like,
don't give me what I've asked for if it's not
what you want, because if it's not what you want,
(41:32):
then I certainly don't want it. And there's a, there's
a peace in that because whatever's going to happen, he
loves me. And so I think that he's always got
plans for my welfare, not my destruction. Doesn't mean life
isn't going to be tough and thorny and full of
hills and valleys. But I can trust him every step
of the way because he doesn't leave and he doesn't forsake. Again,
one of the one of the things I love about
(41:53):
the book is not just always Sam, and you're just
so known for this. It's always rich, rich, rich theology.
In an age where we're growing, either we can't countenance
it or it's not being preached from the pulpit. So
I just so appreciate who you are and the way
in which you write and teach. But you give us
three pragmatics, and one of them is to absolutely set
a time regularly to prayer, to pray. Why is that important?
S7 (42:15):
Because we're so overloaded in life with so many extraneous
things that we think are essential and they're not. And
we need to prioritize our efforts and our time and
our responsibilities. And at the very top of that list
needs to be prayer, meditation on God's Word worship. So
that's why, by the way, let me I want to
interject something here before we run out of time, please,
(42:37):
because you articulated it, even though I don't think you
knew you were. And that is this every problem in
prayer is due to a misconception about God. In other words, we.
The reason why you said that you always say what
you do. Like, Lord, if you're infinitely wiser, you're more
loving than I could possibly imagine. So if this is
(42:57):
not good for me, don't do it. But I fear, Janet,
that a whole lot of Christians don't think that way
about God. They don't. They don't envision him as being
that kind and generous and loving. And, you know, that's why,
you know, I wrote my book, The Steadfast Love of
the Lord. Because we need to understand that if God
truly is, his love truly is steadfast and immovable, that
(43:20):
he is always going to do for us what is best,
even though we think it's the worst. So that's why
I say every misconception about prayer, every problem that we face,
we don't pray enough. We don't pray well, we don't
pray with the right words or heart is due to
a misconception we have about God. We're thinking about him
in ways that are not consistent with Scripture, and that
(43:41):
is so essential.
S10 (43:42):
Yeah.
S1 (43:42):
Oh wow. You talk about how important it is to
incorporate praise. Talk to me about that.
S7 (43:48):
Yeah, I, I don't know. In fact, I would encourage
people to, uh, excuse me to read my section on
prayer in the Psalms, because the psalm, it's very hard
at times to know if a if the psalmist is
praying or.
S9 (44:01):
Praising because he mixes them together.
S10 (44:04):
Yes.
S9 (44:04):
He turns he turns his prayers back into worship. And
I think that is so central to to understanding how
prayer is really designed to function in our lives.
S1 (44:15):
And the third pragmatic at the end of that chapter
is pray with an open Bible. And that was just
elucidated by talking about what we read in the Psalms. Friends,
that's one chapter. This is why this book is so delicious.
And I'm going to take my time. Now, I know
you're anxious to ask him questions on those tough topics,
so maybe we'll intersperse it. But I want us to
go through this so that our prayer lives will be
dramatically changed. In the meantime, get the book and read it.
(44:37):
Understanding prayer, biblical foundations, and practical guidance for seeking God.
Thank you Sam. Excellent conversation. Thank you friends. We'll see
you next time.
Hi friend, thank you so much for downloading this podcast
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(00:22):
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(00:43):
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S2 (01:50):
Here are some of the news headlines we're watching.
S3 (01:52):
The conference was over. The president won a pledge.
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S1 (02:19):
Hi, friends. Welcome to In the Market with Janet Parshall.
So glad we're going to spend the hour together. We're
going to take up the subject of prayer. Wait, wait.
Come back, come back I get it, I get it.
Isn't that amazing? I mean, those of us who have
confessed with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe
in our heart that God has raised him from the dead.
We should be so excited about the topic of prayer
and if we each were given a dose of sodium pentathol,
(02:42):
I think most of us would say, ooh, I get distracted,
my mind wanders, I don't know, I'm not disciplined enough.
I don't like the ritualism of prayer. I'm not sure
that God hears or he cares. And what difference does
it make? God can't get his mind changed. So why
am I bothering to pray anyway? And we fall into
this somersault of excuses, of ignoring this privilege of talking
(03:03):
to a king. Now I got to tell you, God,
in his mercy and his sovereignty, has had me meet
a whole lot of important people in the world. And
there are rules of deportment. And when you're allowed to
speak and you don't touch and you don't say anything
until you're given permission, I have been told in his
word that I get to walk. No, I get to
run boldly into the throne of grace and talk to
(03:25):
the King of all kings. And yet, well, we just
kind of linger outside the door of the throne room,
don't we? I don't get it. Well, thank you, Lord,
for raising up superb teachers. I can't come up with
enough adjectives to describe how much I love and respect
doctor sandstorms. What a great Bible teacher he is. He's
written a book on this topic called Understanding Prayer Biblical
Foundations and Practical Guidance for Seeking God. There's so much
(03:48):
in this book that let the record show your honor
that we couldn't possibly cover it in one conversation, so
we're going to pick up where we left off the
last time and really start to understand prayer and maybe,
maybe just have a radical recognition of why this is
such a precious privilege and something that we should be
engaged in on a regular basis. Can I give you
the formal intro to Doctor Sam Storms? Although if you
(04:08):
listen regularly, you know this man as much as I do,
and you love him as well. He pastored Bridgeway Church
in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma for 14 years. He's the founder
of Enjoying God Ministries. He serves as a member of
the Council of the Gospel Coalition. He is the past
president of the Evangelical Theological Society. They don't let just
anybody do that, by the way. He served for four
years as a visiting associate professor of theology at Wheaton College.
(04:31):
He's a prolific author. He's written a ton of books
The Beginner's Guide to Spiritual Gifts, The Singing God. Feel
the passion God has for you just the way you are.
Tough topics. Don't we know that? That's something we talk
about a lot in this program. The list goes on
and on and on. And a dozen things God did
with your sin and three things he'll never do. And
now his newest one understanding prayer biblical foundations and practical
(04:54):
guidance for seeking God. Sam, the warmest of welcomes. Thank
you so much. Let me. I may hearken back to
a couple of questions I asked when we had our
first conversation on this book, and I just need to
point out to my friends that we didn't get a
16th of the way into the book. There's that much
in there. That's how important and rich this conversation is.
But let me ask you an appeal to your shepherd's heart.
Why is it that most of us sheep are reticent
(05:17):
when it comes to prayer? Why do we think it's
something I have to do? It's not something I want
to do. I don't know how many Christians say I
just pant for that time when I get to be
alone with God. Why is that?
S7 (05:29):
That's a great question, Janet. Actually, believe it or not,
there are a few people who do pant for prayer.
They can't think of doing anything else. That's why I've
wondered if maybe intercession is a spiritual gift that isn't
explicitly mentioned in Scripture. People who are just born to
be on their knees just love seeking God for others
(05:51):
and nothing brings them greater delight than doing that. I
wish there were more like that. But even if somebody says, well,
I don't have the gift of intercession. That doesn't take
away the obligation you have to be in prayer. So yeah,
we are all called upon by God to do this.
I think one of the reasons you just mentioned several,
there are so many distractions in today's world. Um, you know,
(06:13):
I think back on my theological hero, Jonathan Edwards, and
how he spent 13 hours a day in his study
and had ten children to care for and a wife.
And yet he didn't have the distraction of a telephone
or a computer or TV or, uh, you know, professional
sports and athletics and all these many things that that
(06:35):
distract us. Um, you know, he didn't have to worry
about a phone call coming in, interrupting his prayer time.
We have so many distractions, so many. Our lives are
fractured and splintered in so many ways, with so many obligations.
That's one of the big reasons. I think a second
reason is that, um, prayer does not always lead to
(06:57):
what we would call tangible results. And it's frustrating because
we bring so many requests to the Lord that we
have great burdens and needs, and sometimes it's delayed. Sometimes
an answer comes back, no, sometimes when the answer is yes, it's,
you know, maybe a year or two down the road. Um,
and I think, I think that just kind of discourages people.
(07:18):
And then, you know, the one thing that we talked
about in our last show is, as I'm recalling it,
is that there is a very, very bad and unbiblical
theological assumption that a lot of people have, and that
is that God is going to do for me, apart
from my praying what he says in His word, he'll
only do if I pray. We have this idea. Well,
(07:39):
he's God, he's generous, he's good. He always wants to
do wonderful things. So even if I'm too busy to
pray and he knows I'm busy, you know he'll let
me off the hook. He'll give me that anyway. And
I think it's a horribly unbiblical and arrogant assumption. We
should never assume that God is going to do for us,
apart from prayer, what he says in His Word. He'll
(08:00):
only do through prayer and in response to it. So
I think we need to get past that hurdle as well.
And then I think also, if I can stand another,
I think it's the fourth reason I'm giving here. I
think Satan and the demonic realm realized the the importance
and the power of Christians praying, and they do everything
they can to discourage us. They do everything they can
(08:22):
to distract us. Um, you know, we we, we have
very short attention spans. And when we sit quietly and we. Well,
I don't even know what I need to pray about
right now. You know, one of the things I tell
people all the time is, why don't you just pray
the Bible? Open up the Psalms. Just read the Psalms
back to God. Uh, read the apostolic prayers in the
(08:44):
New Testament. Um, that's a way of keeping your mind
engaged and your heart focused. And also it will enable
you to pray for the right things. Because so many times,
you know, the list of our prayer requests differs vastly
from that of the apostles or David or any of
the other psalmists. So praying back the Bible is one of,
I think, the most effective ways to stay focused on
(09:06):
this particular discipline.
S1 (09:08):
Wow, what a wonderful answer. Thank you for that, Sam.
When we come back, I want to get into some
of the pragmatics. The book is filled with pragmatics, by
the way you look at the prayer life of Jesus
and of Peter and of others in Scripture, as well
as illustrations of how we can have an effective and
vibrant prayer life. And going to the title of the
book how We can Really Understand the Power of Prayer.
So when we come back, I want to talk about
(09:30):
the chapter you called Praying in Jesus Name, Magical Incantation
or Pathway to Power. I said that friend, so you
can think about it during the break and Doctor Sam
Storms will break that down for us when we return
back after this. Street evangelist Ray comfort has spent decades
(09:56):
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(10:17):
Janet Parshall. Always a joy to spend the hour with
Doctor Sam Storms. He is a pastor, teacher, theologian, writer, blogger.
The list goes on and on and on. He's got
a new book out. All of his books are fabulous.
This one's called Understanding Prayer Biblical Foundations, and Practical Guidance
for Seeking God. So let me go back to the chapter,
(10:37):
because I think sometimes the ritualism, uh, is a turnoff
for some people. They're thinking, well, that's not going to
hear it unless I do. The acts, prayer and all
these and acronyms are things that we use to try
to think that somehow that's an effective prayer. Um, and
yet I, I don't the argument could be made that
I don't see that. I mean, sometimes my best prayers
are help, and that's sufficient in and of itself. But
(11:00):
I love the way you say, is it a magical
incantation or pathway to prayer? And you start with the
verse in John, and maybe this is a good place
to kick this off. Whatever you ask in my name,
this I will do, that the father may be glorified
in the son. If you ask me anything in my name,
I will do it. Now, I gotta tell you, I
think this is when you let the world teach you
theology or you practice really sloppy exegesis. You're thinking, well,
(11:23):
there he is. And God suddenly becomes. And I say
this recognizing he's a holy God, the ATM in the sky.
I asked for it. I did it in Jesus name,
I expect it. And then when God doesn't deliver, we
start thinking, well, maybe he's not the God he said
he is, or we start questioning our own faith. What
did I do wrong that I didn't get God to
do what I wanted him to do because I asked
in his name. This is one of those fascinating passages
(11:47):
of Scripture that, if misapplied and misunderstood, I think can
have people shrink back from their faith rather than grow
up in it. Break it down for us, please.
S7 (11:54):
Well, sure. Yeah. The key, obviously, is in understanding what
he means when he says in my name. You know,
there are a lot of things entailed by that. One
of them is that means we're not praying in my
name and in his name. In other words, we're not
praying on the basis of who I am or what
I deserve, or that God will pay me back for
all of my devotion, all of my sacrifices. And again,
(12:17):
I'd also tell people, you don't have to actually say
the words in Christ's name. I, I know one pastor
and it always caught me by surprise. He would pray
and then at the end he would just say, Amen.
And I always wonder why? Why didn't he say in
Christ's name? So we talked about it and he said,
I don't think that there's any magical power in in
(12:37):
saying those words. And he's exactly right. So it's less
a formula than it is an expression of faith. It's
basically saying, I'm coming to the father in the name
of the son. And what that means is, anything that
I receive from the God is because of what Jesus
has done for me. It's because of the finality of
(12:57):
his work on the cross, his resurrection. Um, he is
the reason for I am praying. It is for his
glory and not mine. Uh, you know, think about all
the places in the New Testament where the name of Christ.
You know, we baptize in the name of Jesus. We
perform church discipline in the name of Jesus. People are
healed in the name of Jesus. And again, it's not
(13:18):
by throwing out that name and thinking, well, if I
say it, just the right inflection, just the right intensity
of my voice, you know, God will wake up and say, wow,
there's somebody who's really serious. That's not it at all.
Like you said, that treats prayer as if it's a god's,
the genie in a bottle. And we've got to rub
it just the number of times to get him to
come out. Right. No, I think it means approaching the
(13:39):
throne of grace and fully aware of who we are,
that we don't have anything that merits an answer, that
we can't do anything that's going to coerce God or
control him. It means, for also, we always ought to
ask in our prayer request is what I'm asking for
consistent with who Jesus is, his nature, his character, his worth,
(14:00):
his value to us. We have to ask the question,
what are the objectives and goals that Jesus Himself sought
after in his earthly life? Do we have the glory
of God primarily in view, or is it the glory
and the promotion of ourselves? Obviously, we have to have
his fame as foremost in our hearts. We have to
(14:23):
be doing it, praying on the basis of what Christ
accomplished on the cross. All of those things, and many,
many others are wrapped up in the phrase in Christ's name.
It's all about who he is. Um, so you remember,
I think in, uh, I think it's in acts three.
Is it where they healed the guy who was a paralytic?
And when they were challenged, Peter said, it is not
(14:44):
because of me or my name that this is done,
but only the name of Christ. You know the one
name given among men by which we can be saved.
So I love I always in my prayers within Christ's name,
but I don't do it because I think, well, if I,
if I if I fail to do that, have I
just emptied my prayers of any power and God will say,
(15:04):
sorry you had you had me up to a point, Sam,
but then you lost it because you didn't say the
magical words, right? Yeah. We've got to be careful not
to think of prayer that way, or think of God
that way, because that that really is an insult to him,
to think that he would respond to us in that fashion.
He's not concerned with, you know, people I have people
(15:24):
I've talked to people. And I say, why don't you
ever pray in in public? You know, when other people
do and they say, well, my theology is not real
good and my grammar is off, and I'm afraid God
will take offense if I, you know, use the wrong
using a subjective case instead of an objective. Or if
I say something that's a little theologically off center, I
say you really think your heavenly father, who went to
(15:46):
the lengths he did to save your soul from hell,
is going to be bothered by that and refused to
answer you because you're not the most eloquent person on
the face of the earth. And they say, oh, well,
I guess so. So yeah, but all of that is
wrapped up in praying in Christ's name.
S1 (16:02):
Yes, yes. So if I may, let me linger, Sam,
on this one, because I worry that there are some
people who will step away because they think he's not
the God he has said he is to us. So
let's take the issue of suffering and you touch on
this in this particular chapter. So someone prays, quote, in
his name in accordance to his will. Knowing who Jesus is,
(16:22):
heal my child and the child doesn't get healed. Then
they look at this passage in John and they're going,
but wait a minute, I prayed it in his name,
and that I was told that the father would be glorified.
Certainly my sick child being healed would bring nothing but
glory to him. But the answer was no. And then
the unraveling begins. How do we, as maturing saints handle that?
(16:43):
Because there is prayer here. But this is linked inexorably
to what a lot of people think are the outcomes
of prayer. My concern is, I think we're so focused
sometimes on the outcome. We forget about the privilege and
purpose of prayer.
S7 (16:56):
You're so very right, and I wish that I had
a perfect answer to that question. I wish I could
point to a text of Scripture that would put people's
concerns and fears at rest. Um, but it it is
a profoundly complex question. And I hear the music, which
means I'm going to try to come up with a
decent answer when we come back from the break.
S1 (17:18):
And you always do, sir. You always do. Doctor Sam
Storms is with us. His newest book is called Understanding
Prayer Biblical Foundations and Practical Guidance for Seeking God. I
love it because in full transparency, I struggle like everyone
else because I want to remember the privilege and the
preciousness of praying, not see it as a burden or
a responsibility or a ritual that I'm somehow not getting right.
(17:41):
This book just opened my eyes in so many ways,
and I know it'll do the same thing for you
back after this.
S8 (17:59):
In times of sorrow. Seasons of pain. When all seems hopeless,
one thing remains. Our God is faithful and his word
(18:24):
is true. He said, call on his name And he
will answer you.
S1 (18:35):
Good song. We're talking about prayer with Doctor Sam Storms
because his latest book is called Understanding Prayer Biblical Foundations
and Practical Guidance for Seeking God. You know, I'm taking
my time in these conversations with Sam because there is
so much on this extremely important component of the believer's life.
So we're on a chapter right now. That Doctor Storms
is called praying in Jesus's name, magical incantation or Pathway
(18:59):
to Prayer. And he starts with that passage that so
many of us know from John where it says, point blank,
whatever you ask in my name, this I will do,
that the father may be glorified in the son. If
you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.
So I raised a hypothetical because I bet a whole
bunch of people were thinking about the same hypothetical, or
one just like it. So you go to the Lord,
(19:19):
you pray in his name that your child will be
healed and your child is not. Now that starts an
unraveling process either. God is not a promise keeping God
either I didn't do enough ritualism or something wrong in
the way I was supposed to do this incantation. And
it raises a panoply of questions that can leave a
believer bruised, battered, and really misunderstanding the character of God.
(19:41):
So you had the entire break to come up with
the perfect answer, Sam, and I can't wait to hear it.
S7 (19:48):
Give me an entire lifetime. And I don't know if
I come up with a really good answer. Um, you know,
one of the things that we do have to remember
is obviously that when we pray, we always say, Lord,
I don't know what your will is in this matter.
I don't know what you want to do, but help
me learn how to submit to it, whatever it is,
even if it's contrary to what I've asked for. I mean,
(20:10):
so many times in the life of Paul, we see
him say this. I was thinking in the break about
Romans 15 when he asked the Romans to pray for him, uh,
so that by God's will he says, I may come
to you with joy and be refreshed in your company. Well,
those are pretty good desires. I want to I want
to come to you with joy. I want to be
refreshed by you and you by me. But I don't
(20:32):
know that if it's God's will or not, but I'm
going to ask him to do it anyway. So basically
what we come down to is, um, there are a
couple of questions that we need to ask ourselves. Number one,
deep down inside, do I really want God to do
what I've just asked him to do, given the fact
that he is infinitely wise, infinitely resourceful, that he has
(20:56):
promised that he will always do whatever is for my
ultimate spiritual good. Maybe when I ask him for something
and it doesn't happen, it's because he knows far better
than I do that that would not accomplish for me
what I think it would. But in fact, it might
even be a deterrent to my spiritual growth. Um, you know,
I'm I kind of have to respond to this practical
(21:19):
question kind of in a larger theological context. It drew
me back to, uh, Paul's statement in Romans eight when
he said, he who did not spare his own son,
but gave him up for us all, how will he
not also with him graciously give us all things? I thought, wow, well,
what's included in the all things? Does that mean that
(21:42):
since God gave his Son to die for me, he'll
give me anything that I ask for? Well, we have
to understand that the all things, at least I believe
in light of the teaching of Scripture, is whatever is
necessary for me to walk in a way that glorifies God,
and that ultimately leads me to flourish as a believer
both now and in eternity future. Do I really believe
(22:06):
that God will give me everything necessary for me to
live a a productive, God glorifying life? Even. Even if
I'm suffering? I mean, think about, uh, think about individuals,
Christians who've been incarcerated in the third world countries in
prison for nothing more than being believers. Um, I had
(22:27):
a friend whose name was Timothy Chung, and Timothy was
in a prisoner of war. He was in a camp
in China for years and years and years. And all
through that time he was doing God's will. He was
praying that he would be released. And after, gosh, I
think it was 15 or 20 years he was released.
And his testimony has blessed more people than you and
(22:48):
I could possibly imagine. So I don't profess to have
any clear cut, definitive answers for why the things we
ask for, whether we think really in of themselves are good,
like the like the preservation of a child's life. I mean,
I think about about that horrific situation down in Kerrville
with those flash floods, and I've been devastated by that.
(23:10):
And I said, Lord, I don't understand. I know those parents.
This is a Christian camp. I know they would have
prayed before they let their kids go. Lord, protect them,
keep them safe, keep them close to you. And yet
now they're left without a child, some of them without
more than one child. And I don't understand that. But
if in fact, Romans 828 is true, and I hate,
(23:33):
I hate sometimes doing this because we think Romans 828
is kind of like a pacifier. Somebody Christians crying. Well,
we'll just jam that verse in their mouth and it'll
it'll calm them down. That's not what it's meant to do.
It's meant to encourage us that we know that for
those who love God, all things work together for good,
for those who are called according to his purpose. Well be.
(23:54):
All things are ultimately those things which most honor him,
which is our humble dependency, our determined resilience to trust
him in faith even when things go differently than how
we had hoped that they would. So there's so many
of those things. You know, I've got a lot of
I've got a lot of things on my prayer list
that I've been asking for for quite some time, and
(24:15):
some of them haven't happened yet. And it forces me
to ask the question of myself, Sam, is God himself.
S9 (24:21):
Enough for you.
S7 (24:23):
Or you must you have these additional things.
S9 (24:25):
Is God sufficiently enough for you that you can thrive
as his child in this world? Or must you have
these things you're asking for?
S1 (24:34):
Boy. Exclamation point. Underlined. Thank you for that, Sam. Let
me take a break and come right back. Doctor Sam Storm,
our guest. His book Understanding prayer. More after this. With
(24:54):
so many stations, channels, websites and newspapers to choose from,
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(25:16):
Janet Parshall. If you are just joining us, the warmest
of welcomes. We're talking to Doctor Sam Storms. He pastored
Bridgeway Church in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma for 14 years. He's
the founder of Enjoying God Ministries, serves as a member
of the Council of the Gospel Coalition, past president of
the Evangelical Theological Society, served for four years as a
(25:38):
visiting associate professor of theology at Wheaton College, and a
very prolific author who's written a whole bunch of books.
Have a link to his website. It is like the
Library of Congress. It's a treasure trove of information, so
check it out. A ton of things there. And also
the focus of this hour's conversation is his latest book
called Understanding Prayer. If you just joined us. Thank you, Lord,
for the new technology. Didn't miss a thing? Just go
(26:00):
to where your favorite podcast can be found. Download in
the market with Janet Parshall. Put in today's date and
you'll be able to hear this broadcast from the beginning
at your convenience. But you are going to want to
go back and hear how we started this conversation. So
the full title, Understanding Prayer Biblical Foundations and Practical Guidance
for Seeking God. So I want to go to the
pragmatics if I can here for a bit in the
(26:21):
same chapter, Sam, you talk about the four essentials for
effective prayer. Everybody needs to hear this. What are those
four essentials?
S7 (26:30):
Yeah. Well we've covered one of them, which is praying
in Christ's name and everything that's entailed by that. And again,
if people are just joining us, we're not saying that
these are magical words like abracadabra, that's somehow going to
guarantee you get the response that you want. It means
praying in the fullness of the understanding of who Christ is,
what he's like, what he wants, what he's accomplished for us.
(26:53):
And then, of course, secondly, we have to pray for
the father's glory. Jesus said in in John 14 he said,
pray in his name so that the father may be
glorified in the son. And he says the same thing
in John 15 he said, by this, by this my
father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so
prove to be my disciples. And he said that right
(27:14):
after he said, and this happens when you pray in
my name. So again, it's sometimes it's hard for us
to have the glory of God as central in our
focus when we're praying, because we're so consumed by our
own hurt, our own need, our own frustrations. But if
we can actually say, Lord, I don't know how this
(27:36):
situation is best going to glorify you, but that's what
I want. If saying no to my request is going
to be somehow bring greater glory to you than you
saying yes, help me to understand it. Help me to
submit to that. And then the third thing is abiding
in Christ. Jesus said, if you abide in me and
my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish and
it will be done for you. And again, that sounds
(27:58):
like a well, that's easy. Two plus two equals four.
Well then we just have to start asking, what does
it mean to abide.
S1 (28:04):
In.
S7 (28:04):
Christ? What have his words abide in us? I mean,
there's so much richness there. Um, do we really abide
in him? And then I break down what that means. I,
I do it with four words. It means that we remain.
We don't wander. We stay riveted, consciously intent on staying
connected with Jesus in every way. It also means that
(28:24):
we rest. We don't strive to try to, you know,
put God in our debt and say, God, look at
all the things I've done for you. Look at the
sacrifices I made. Look how much money I gave to
the church. And then the word reflect is the third word,
and that is simply thinking about meditating upon Jesus, honoring
Him and His words in ways that, uh, maybe we
(28:47):
hadn't done before. And then finally, I like the word
rejoice worshiping. Um, so all of those things are involved
in abiding in him. Uh, and so and of course,
his words abide in us. And that doesn't just mean
that we memorize scripture, although that's important, or that we
meditate on them. It means that we do them. We
obey them. We are consciously saying, Lord, help me to
(29:10):
take your word seriously and implement them by the power
of your spirit in my life. And then the fourth
thing is praying so that our joy may be full.
Now that that might sound a little self-serving, but listen
to what Jesus said. He said, in that day you
will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you,
whatever you ask of the father in my name, he
will give it to you. Until now, you have asked
(29:33):
nothing in my name. Ask. I love this. Ask and
you will receive that your joy may be full. Wow.
I mean, I have a lot of joy and a
lot of things that I shouldn't. And the scriptures kind
of pull back the, the, the curtain on that and say, Sam,
you are delighting in stuff that's really bad. It's not
(29:55):
honoring to the Lord. Um, so I think the joy
that we receive, Jesus says, is the joy that he
himself had. He said, my joy will be in you
and your joy in me. So all of these things
are involved in, um, in praying according to God's will
and in a way that will honor him and glorify
(30:15):
him and bring us greatest delight in who he is
and what he's done for us.
S1 (30:19):
Yeah. Amen. Now, let me take what you said. And
I love the way that we can take those principles
and precepts. And then I love the way they come
alongside a personality. So let's go to the one who
wrote the majority of the New Testament. So here's Paul
with his thorn in the side, one of the many
millions of questions yet to be answered when we are
standing in his presence. And if anybody could pray effectually,
(30:41):
if anybody would pray in Jesus's name. I would say
it's Brother Paul, and I bet he knows everything about
remaining and resting and reflecting and rejoicing. And yet that
thorn was never removed. So there's a there's a dichotomy there.
How do we square the fact that if anybody would
have done this, it would have been someone who was
(31:01):
transported to the third heaven, who was literally blinded by Christ,
who went from being a domestic terrorist to being a
man whose head would be severed from his shoulders for
the cause of the cross. This is a man who
would have effective prayer, and certainly that thorn would have
been removed. What happened? Again, I asked this, Sam, because everybody,
when they're praying, I think until we re-orientate our thinking
(31:21):
is thinking outcomes, not participation. So here he didn't get
the outcome he wanted that the outcome that he prayed for.
But I bet he did everything. Every jot and tittle,
crossed every T, dotted every die and didn't get what
he prayed for. How come?
S7 (31:36):
By the way, one of the most important this is
this isn't so much related to prayer, but it's one
of the most important lessons from this story. If I
had been translated into the third heaven, and I saw
the things that Paul saw that he said, I'm not
even allowed to speak. They're so glorious and great. And
I came back to earth. I just don't think I
could ever go.
S10 (31:55):
Oh. Me too.
S7 (31:56):
My soul.
S10 (31:56):
To sin. Me too.
S7 (31:58):
I'd be totally sanctified. Perfect in all my ways. And yet,
here's Paul. When he somehow is back connected with his
body or whatever it was that happened to him. What's
the first thing that he does? Pride. Pride. That's why
he had the thorn in the flesh. He says to
keep me from thinking of myself more than. More than
I should. I. That just. That's just mind blowing to me.
(32:22):
But aside from that, let's get back to your question.
S1 (32:25):
Also, by the way, I would need gaff tape because
I've been told not to say anything. Um, I don't know.
That'd be. That'd be the hard part for me. But.
But when you've had an encounter with the living God,
I think you take that pretty seriously.
S7 (32:38):
Oh, my. Yes. But it is really instructive. We think
that some supernatural. This is one of the most glorious
supernatural experiences in the Bible. I don't know if it's
maybe Isaiah and Isaiah six or John in the book
of Revelation, but this one comes close to those. And
we think, if I could just have one of those,
I would never sin again.
S10 (32:56):
God. Right, right.
S7 (32:57):
Oh, really?
S10 (32:58):
Really. All right, getting back to the question.
S7 (33:02):
It took Paul. You know, it says he prayed three times.
I think he meant three sustained seasons of prayer.
S10 (33:08):
I agree.
S7 (33:09):
Asking once. Twice three. No, over an extended period of time.
And the Lord basically said, look, Paul, I have a
purpose in that thorn. And in letting it remain there,
whatever it is, and that purpose that you're going to
accomplish by means of your trust in me, in spite
of the thorn, is greater than anything that could accomplish
if I were to take it away. He said, my,
(33:31):
my grace is sufficient for you. My power is made
perfect in weakness. So I you know, there are things
that I've had in my life where I thought, Lord,
if you'll just take away this affliction or do this
for me, I will honor you and celebrate your grace
more than I ever would before. And God says, hold
on a minute, fella. Uh, that's not necessarily true. The
(33:55):
way that you can magnify my sufficiency, my resourcefulness, my beauty,
my glory, and show to others that I'm worthy of
your affection. Even when you don't get things that you
think you have to have. And that's what he's saying
to Paul. And and I love Paul's response. Um, he says,
by the way, in verse ten, I don't like the
(34:16):
way the ESV translate this. He says, for the sake
of Christ, then I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, calamities.
No it's not. I'm content. It's literally I rejoice in these.
It's very clear word in the Greek text. And think
of all the things he's talking about weakness, insults, hardships,
persecutions and calamities. And he says, for when I am weak.
(34:40):
And by we could add to that, for when I
am weak, and God doesn't answer me to get me
out of weakness, into strength, when I remain weak, then
I am strong. Strong for what? For my personal welfare
or ultimately for the glory of God's grace and the
sufficiency of who Jesus is? So yeah, if we could
all keep this in mind and let Paul's experience become ours. Now,
(35:04):
that doesn't mean that God's going to give everybody a
thorn in the flesh, whatever that is. Um, it doesn't
mean that if he does give you one, that he
won't take it away. Uh, you know, I think of
Paul's prayers for Epaphroditus in Philippians two. He said Epaphroditus
had sacrificed so much to come to me in Rome,
and yet he fell ill almost to the point of death.
And he said, I was about to grieve myself into
(35:26):
the ground, but God had mercy on him. And yet,
if we look at all the circumstances, it took a
long time for the the prayer request for Epaphroditus as
healing to be answered. It's interesting because Epaphroditus got sick.
It took time for news to go back to remember
they're there in Rome. It had to take time to
(35:47):
go back to Philippi, so the church in Philippi would
hear about it, and then it had to take some
time for the news to come back from Philippi to Rome,
to tell Epaphroditus. We're really concerned over you. It probably
took months, but then it says that God healed him.
The Lord said. Paul said God had mercy on him.
So sometimes prayer answers to prayer are delayed, sometimes months,
(36:09):
sometimes years. Uh, sometimes the answer doesn't come till we
get to heaven.
S9 (36:14):
Um, but then we won't have any complaints.
S1 (36:16):
That's exactly right. It's exactly right. So based on what
you just said, you asked the question. Is it really
the case that God can actually say no to our
prayer requests? Just think about that question, and then you're
going to hear what Doctor Sam Storms has to say.
And when he picked up from J.I. Packer as the
response to that as well. Fabulous book on prayer. It's
called Understanding Prayer Biblical Foundations and Practical Guidance for Seeking God.
(36:40):
Who among us can't read a book like this and
see our prayer life improved back after this? Writer. Pastor. Teacher. Theologian. Thinker.
Wonderful man. Doctor Sam Storms is with us. His latest
(37:03):
book is called Understanding Prayer Biblical Foundations and Practical Guidance
for Seeking God. So as you round out this chapter
and by the way, this is just one chapter of
the book. This is what I mean when I tell
you it's so rich, I don't want to rush through this.
I want to savor every part of this book because
I just, I believe, not condemnation. I'm looking at myself
in the mirror. But there's so much improvement in our
(37:23):
prayer lives. I think it's just we fail to understand
the power, the approachability and the person we're talking to.
So you say, first of all, and I love this, Sam,
you and I've talked about in the past, I'm so
thankful that the Lord has not said yes to every
prayer request I ever had. I would be in a
heap of trouble. So I'm so thankful that he does
this according to his good and perfect will. And so
(37:46):
I'm praising him for that. But then the second question
you posit is this idea does God ever really say
no to our prayers? And you hearken us to look
at the words of J.I. Packer. Talk to us about this.
S7 (37:57):
Yeah. Oh, what a glorious man of God.
S10 (38:00):
I was so.
S7 (38:00):
Saddened when he passed away. I was all in. Planning
on going to his memorial service. But it happened right
in the middle of Covid and they wouldn't let us
get up there. But yeah, Doctor Packer had some just
profound insights. Um, God always responds to us when we
come to him humbly in the name of the Lord
Jesus and in a spirit of not arrogance or entitlement,
(38:25):
but just desperation, he will always respond. The response obviously
sometimes is yes, we. That's wonderful. Sometimes, as Packer points out,
it's God saying, well, you think that A is the
best way to to respond to your request, when in
fact really it's Z. And in order for Z to
(38:46):
come about, I'm going to have to delay responding to
you because other circumstances have to be worked out that
I'll providentially control. Or he might be saying, um, you know,
the I'm going to say yes to your prayer, but
not in the way you expected it. Uh, so it's like, uh,
a little boy, you know, desperate for, uh, a tricycle
(39:08):
at Christmas. And his dad instead gives him a regular bicycle,
even though he doesn't know how to ride it yet.
And the boy's disappointed. He says, well, wait a minute.
You're going to have a whole lot more fun on
the bicycle than you would a tricycle. Sometimes, obviously, God
just says, wait, uh, sometimes he says, look, you need
to adjust the terms of your request. Uh, you know,
(39:30):
in writing books, uh, so many times, editors will come
back and say, uh, Sam, that's not the best way
to express that. Let's try this. Use a different word,
use a use a synonym here or there. And sometimes
God says, I'm trying to form your mind and shape
your heart and your values in such a way that
you will always ask in accordance with what most honors
(39:54):
and glorifies me and is for your best. So I
think there's always an answer. No, wait. Not that way.
But this way. Not at this time, but at another time.
And then, of course, you know, you got to. We
have to be honest. I ask people all the time.
I say, do you really think that? You know. What
is best for your soul more than God does?
S10 (40:17):
I mean.
S7 (40:17):
Do you really think that this thing that you have
persistently asked for and you're convinced that it's the absolutely
best thing that could ever happen to you, and that
God somehow is coming up short and his theory just
doesn't work as well. Are we seriously saying that the
infinitely wise God. And I go back to the Romans
eight passage, the one who who went to the greatest
(40:40):
degree of sacrifice possible in giving us his Son, how
will he not, together with him, graciously give us? And
I want to expand on it all things that are
necessary for our joy. All things that are necessary for
our conformity to Christ. All things that are necessary for
us to flourish in this life and lay up treasure
in the next life. And the answer to that is,
(41:00):
of course he will. Of course he will. It's just so. Yeah,
the answer to the question is God always responds when
we come to him in the way that the Word
of God tells us to.
S1 (41:10):
Yeah. Amen. Isn't there a comfort? It is for me,
I think, in my prayer life anyway, that I'll pray.
But I always stop and say, but you're God and
I'm not, and your thoughts are way above mine. And
if this isn't what you want, if this isn't what
you're good and perfect will is, then I don't want
it either. I always put that in there because it's like,
don't give me what I've asked for if it's not
what you want, because if it's not what you want,
(41:32):
then I certainly don't want it. And there's a, there's
a peace in that because whatever's going to happen, he
loves me. And so I think that he's always got
plans for my welfare, not my destruction. Doesn't mean life
isn't going to be tough and thorny and full of
hills and valleys. But I can trust him every step
of the way because he doesn't leave and he doesn't forsake. Again,
one of the one of the things I love about
(41:53):
the book is not just always Sam, and you're just
so known for this. It's always rich, rich, rich theology.
In an age where we're growing, either we can't countenance
it or it's not being preached from the pulpit. So
I just so appreciate who you are and the way
in which you write and teach. But you give us
three pragmatics, and one of them is to absolutely set
a time regularly to prayer, to pray. Why is that important?
S7 (42:15):
Because we're so overloaded in life with so many extraneous
things that we think are essential and they're not. And
we need to prioritize our efforts and our time and
our responsibilities. And at the very top of that list
needs to be prayer, meditation on God's Word worship. So
that's why, by the way, let me I want to
interject something here before we run out of time, please,
(42:37):
because you articulated it, even though I don't think you
knew you were. And that is this every problem in
prayer is due to a misconception about God. In other words, we.
The reason why you said that you always say what
you do. Like, Lord, if you're infinitely wiser, you're more
loving than I could possibly imagine. So if this is
(42:57):
not good for me, don't do it. But I fear, Janet,
that a whole lot of Christians don't think that way
about God. They don't. They don't envision him as being
that kind and generous and loving. And, you know, that's why,
you know, I wrote my book, The Steadfast Love of
the Lord. Because we need to understand that if God
truly is, his love truly is steadfast and immovable, that
(43:20):
he is always going to do for us what is best,
even though we think it's the worst. So that's why
I say every misconception about prayer, every problem that we face,
we don't pray enough. We don't pray well, we don't
pray with the right words or heart is due to
a misconception we have about God. We're thinking about him
in ways that are not consistent with Scripture, and that
(43:41):
is so essential.
S10 (43:42):
Yeah.
S1 (43:42):
Oh wow. You talk about how important it is to
incorporate praise. Talk to me about that.
S7 (43:48):
Yeah, I, I don't know. In fact, I would encourage
people to, uh, excuse me to read my section on
prayer in the Psalms, because the psalm, it's very hard
at times to know if a if the psalmist is
praying or.
S9 (44:01):
Praising because he mixes them together.
S10 (44:04):
Yes.
S9 (44:04):
He turns he turns his prayers back into worship. And
I think that is so central to to understanding how
prayer is really designed to function in our lives.
S1 (44:15):
And the third pragmatic at the end of that chapter
is pray with an open Bible. And that was just
elucidated by talking about what we read in the Psalms. Friends,
that's one chapter. This is why this book is so delicious.
And I'm going to take my time. Now, I know
you're anxious to ask him questions on those tough topics,
so maybe we'll intersperse it. But I want us to
go through this so that our prayer lives will be
dramatically changed. In the meantime, get the book and read it.
(44:37):
Understanding prayer, biblical foundations, and practical guidance for seeking God.
Thank you Sam. Excellent conversation. Thank you friends. We'll see
you next time.
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