April 9, 2023 • 34 mins
Jasmine Richards is an author, editor and entrepreneur. She's the founder of Storymix, a company with a mission to increase the visibility of characters of colour in children's books and to mentor writers of colour in the early stages of their writing careers.
Jasmine's books include Oliver Twisted and The Unmorrow Curse and Oliver Twisted (under the pseudonym J D Sharpe).
Books from the Storymix studio include Aziza and the Fairy Door, Future Hero and Granny Jinx.
Jasmine joined Nikki Gamble In the Reading Corner to talk about her career in publishing and her hopes for the future of Storymix.
All books are available from our partner bookseller Best Books for Schools
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In the Reading Corner is presented by Nikki Gamble, Director of Just Imagine.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Hello, I'm Nikki Gamble, director of Just Imagine
and host of In The ReadingCorner.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith Jasmine Richards today, an
author, editor and entrepreneur.
She's the founder of Story Mix,a company that has had a visible
impact on children's publishing.
We'll be delving into thatlater.
(00:32):
But first I wanted to know moreabout where Jasmine's own story
started.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I think sometimes you are sort of born into certain
situations and people might haveexpectations about where you'll
go, right?
And there's that Dr.
Sue quote about the more booksyou read.
And I think when I look at mylife and the things that I've
achieved, it all starts and endswith books really.
So I grew up in council housingin a place called Hornsey, which
(01:02):
is in North London.
And I think what's reallyinteresting is the proximity to
the library.
So a Straud Green Library was myclosest library and even with
Little Legs, it took two and ahalf minutes to get there.
Running down the hill veryquickly from the block of flats
are at the top of the hill.
And I was there all the timebecause I, I was a good reader,
(01:24):
quite an advanced reader.
So the children's section wasn'tas varied as it is now.
So very quickly I was going intothe adult section and trying to
recap and Cookson and otherthings.
I remember once I picked up aHarold Robbins and the librarian
plucked it out my hand said,that is not for you young lady.
Like they were really watchingwhat I was reading and giving me
(01:44):
this diet of books.
There were books at home.
My mom was a great reader ofromance books, so lots of mills
and Boone around the place and Idefinitely saw her reading and I
think that is key.
Like I don't think we need to besnobby about what we read.
It's the act of reading andseeing those grownups in your
life actually reading books likeyeah, definitely lots of books
(02:06):
in the house and lots ofcookbooks as well.
And I still love readingcookbooks almost as fiction.
I feel like they're greatrecords of our times in terms of
what was available to me toread, I was a great fan of books
like Anna Green, Gables,Matilda, a lot of those books
(02:28):
where it was a strong youngfemale protagonist.
I think I was aware that Ididn't see myself directly in
those books, but I would catchglimpses of myself in terms of
personality traits.
Do remember that the first timeI felt like I'd properly saw
myself was in a book called Rollof Thunder, hear My Cry and that
(02:50):
was at school and a reallywonderful book, but quite a
traumatic book.
And I remember maybe feelingsadness that that was the first
time I saw a little girl on thecover that looked like me.
I tended to see myself more ontelevision.
So something like X-Men, whichwas a, was a really popular
cartoon at the time.
(03:11):
Really sort of identifying withStorm to the point where I
imagined I could control theweather.
So you know, this whole idea ofseeing yourself and then
reenacting that stuff isabsolutely key in terms of
engagement.
I think I was a completebookworm and I saw enough of
myself to feed the appetite, butI think for other children not
seeing themselves has an effecton their reading engagement.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Mm, that's really interesting.
I know that some writers ofcolor that I've spoken with over
the years have talked aboutreading the classics of
children's literature andrecognizing aspects of
themselves in those stories.
These characters are like atemplate onto which they
superimpose themselves.
But of course for many readersthe lack of characters of color
(03:56):
will be completely off-put.
As concerning, perhaps even moreconcerning is what you're saying
about the potentially traumaticexperience of encountering
negative narratives even whenthey're written from the very
best of intentions.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I hundred percent agree, yes.
Like it needs to be a balance,doesn't it?
And I feel like so oftenintroduction to Black history
comes from a place of traumainstead of all the things that
are also celebratory.
So at least give us balance.
And I think it's great.
There's lots of really urgentconversations about how we teach
(04:34):
history in the uk, but I wouldstill want balance.
Like it's not all trauma and youare right.
You know, certain childrenwouldn't have seen themselves
framed in that way.
So they're like, oh there's allthis bad stuff that is connected
with my heritage and myethnicity and, and that could
happen at school, not in thehome environment.
And that's coming to them out ofnowhere.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
You studied English literature, uh, Oxford.
Mm-hmm.
What's getting there?
Straightforward.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
No, getting there was not straightforward.
So I had this aspiration ofbeing an author from when I was
quite a small person.
One of my favorite authorsactually was Philip Pullman and
Ruby in the Smoke Series.
And I remember reading the bitabout the author in the back of
the book and it said PhilipPullman went to Oxford and that
(05:23):
planted a little seed because Ithought obviously incorrectly
that to be an author you had togo to Oxford.
So I made things much harder formyself than that.
Imagine you needed to.
And I had gone to a school inHornsey Hornsey School for
Girls, which was an amazingschool in terms of kids on the
higher paper there were onlyvery few of us and it was quite
(05:43):
hard for them to teach that partof the curriculum in class.
So teachers would give up theirlunchtimes and after school to
teach us to make sure we gotthrough everything.
And I got to the end of sort ofGCSEs and I said to my school,
okay, see you later.
I'm going off to this school inCo Fosters, which is a quite
affluent place in Enfield.
And they were like, please don'tgo Jasmine stay.
(06:05):
And I was like, I'm sorry.
Like we could always been quitea pragmatic person.
I was like, the facilities atthis school is amazing and I
wanted to do a media studies alevel and they've been this
amazing editing suite.
So I left now at this newschool, they didn't know me at
all.
They knew nothing about me.
And so when I said to them Iwant to apply to Oxford, they
(06:26):
were like, well you know, don'tbe ridiculous.
You've done the wrong A levels,you've done psychology, English
and media studies.
So they refused to um, supportmy application.
So I did the whole thing bymyself to the point that even
when I went to my interview atOxford, because in the back of
the prospectus it said thatthere were 30 people that did
English at Lady Margaret Hall.
(06:47):
I assume that was 30 people peryear.
It was only when I was atinterview week and I'm talking
to the other young people fromall over the country and they're
going, gosh, it's socompetitive.
There's not a lot of spaces.
And I'm like, oh there's 30spaces for English.
And they're like, no, it's 10tops.
Uh, suddenly felt very much outof my depth.
(07:09):
I think I was extremely lucky interms of the college that I
chose.
Lmh always ahead of its time interms of state school access and
the people who interviewed mewere really kind.
And I remember having aconversation in our interview,
been studying the wife of Bar,which I loved, I loved.
And then my essay had been onThe Handmade Tale and my tutor,
(07:31):
who's still a very dear friendnow, uh, Dr.
Helen Bar, professor HelenBarish, she's now just asked me
a question that for the firsttime I was making all these
connections between the wife ofBath and the Handmade Tale.
And I think my little 17 yearold brain must have just, I
think she must have seen it onmy face.
And what she would say is,that's all you wanna see is
(07:52):
someone who teaches is thatexcitement.
You know, you may not have hadall of the preparation that
other students had, but thatappetite for learning is the
thing
Speaker 1 (08:00):
It's uplifting to hear and of course things are
changing and they were probablybeginning to change around the
time that you were a student.
In fact, you went on to do someof the access work at Oxford.
Tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So after I finished my degree, I went and ran
something called the Oxford aScheme, which was a university
led organization that was allabout going into inner city
state schools and encouragingkids to apply to higher
education, but Oxford inparticular and the university
funded my salary.
So basically it was my firstjob.
I remember the real light bulbmoment for me cause I'd always
(08:37):
thought, you know, come fromsocial housing inner city
London, you know, I'd hadcertain challenges getting to
Oxford but we would go to otherparts of the country and I
remember being in Manchester anddoing this talk with these kids
and they were like, oh but Miss,which felt ridiculous cause I
was like 21, but they were like,but you sound like you and we
(09:00):
sound like us.
So like of course you got intoOxford.
And it was the first time Irealized that sort of regional
divide and the privilege thatcomes with being Southern,
everyone has challenges butthere's different layers of
challenges.
So that was really illuminatingfor me.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
It reminds me of a video that we used to show
students on our varieties ofEnglish course.
Bob Hoskins, the wonderfulworking class actor who was
raised in Finsbury Park, wastalking about visiting an
exclusive London club with ablack friend.
He was concerned that they wouldnot gain entry and indeed they
(09:38):
did have difficulty, but it wasHoskins accent that was the
problem.
His RP speaking friend had nodifficulty at all.
So it's really nuanced.
Let's talk about editing.
I first met you when you wereworking as a commissioning
editor at Oxford UniversityPress.
What did editing teach you aboutwriters and writing?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
And my first job was at Penguin where I got to do
some editorial and that's when Iknew I wanted to be an editor,
but there wasn't a role for methere.
So then I went to work for apackager called Working
Partners.
And it was there that I actuallylearned the craft of editing and
plotting and structure.
The thing I feel like I learnedat O U P was around care.
(10:25):
So my boss, wonderful editorcalled Lis Cross and I feel like
what I learned from her is howyou are the sort of custo an a
custodian of an or this careerand how you are there for them.
Not just in their text but inall parts of their career
really.
And I used to share an officewith a wonderful editor called
Ron Heep and I remember having aconversation with him, I think I
(10:48):
was having quite a tricky edit,just couldn't get the book where
it needed to be.
And he said, Jasmine, sometimeswhat you need to do is like, you
know, the book is like a kid andsometimes you're just out of
time and you've gotta send themoff to school.
So you've just gotta wipe theirfaces down, give them a little
kiss and send them out into theworld.
Like the time is up, you do thebest that you can.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
You're also a writer books such as The Secrets of Val
Halla, uh, the Amoro Curse.
It has to be said that you'refull of surprises.
I recall when Oliver Twisted waspublished under the name JD
Sharpe probably about 10 yearsago.
And it wasn't at all what Iexpected.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Well, do you know that is the easiest book I've
ever written.
I've written 15 books, I'vewritten books for teenagers,
I've written picture books, I'vewritten lots of different types
of books.
Oliver Twisted what I saw was an, was an opportunity so that
there had been a lot ofconversations around Dickens
making Dickens, uh, relevant toteenagers finding a way in for
(11:51):
them.
And at the same time time therewas a real trend for all of
these mashups.
I'm sure you remember them.
Um, Nikki.
So pride in Prejudice andZombies, which was an adult
trend, not something that we'dseen, uh, for kids or for teens.
And I just remember thinking,goodness me, there's a, there's
an opportunity here to exploresomething.
Like I was sort of did the ring,do I commission someone to write
(12:15):
this or do I just write it?
Because I have such a clear ideain my head about what this thing
can and should be.
And I've never tried the genreof horror, but I do enjoy
reading horror and I juststarted writing it and I kind of
used the original text as thelaunchpad.
It was actually quite anacademic exercise in terms of
what you kept and what youdidn't keep.
(12:36):
And then in terms of thatcharacter of Oliver Casting No
Shade on Mr.
Dickens, but Oliver does notchange as a character, right?
Oliver affects other people, buthe's quite a stationary, I would
even say stagnant character.
So I really wanted to play withthis idea of change for Oliver
and Choices and all of thesethings that weren't in the
original text.
(12:57):
Now what was so wonderful aboutthat work is I'd go into schools
and do school visits and somekids would be outraged, really
outraged that I'd taken OliverTwist and I'd done this, that
I'd kind of twisted thenarrative and would come out
fully in defense of CharlesDickens.
I was like, well this is done.
Exactly the thing that we sortof set out to do is for them to
(13:18):
engage.
And actually there's a lot ofconversations now about whether
you leave things alone, right?
Do you leave it exactly how thatwriter wanted it to be?
Do you update things?
Do you change things?
That is a great way to engageyoung people in books because
they have very strong opinions.
It can be quite righteous intheir belief.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Of course a lot of your other books do have this
thread of myth running throughthem, including the Omoro Curse,
which was published last year.
Mm-hmm Was myths something thatyou were reading all those years
ago in that library as a child?
Or did that come to you laterthrough your studies?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Oh no, a hundred percent that that small kid in
the library in North London, Iwas absolutely obsessed with
myths, Roman myths, Greek myths,Egyptian mythology.
And actually the first book thatI ever wrote was called The Book
of Wonders and was inspired by1,001 Nights.
And I remember reading thosestories and sort of feeling
(14:21):
outraged by the end of thestories.
After 1,001 ni nights Sheard haschanged the saltan through her
stories, he's become a betterman.
He's no longer gonna lockpeople's heads off and they live
happily ever after.
And I remember thinking, wellwhat about all of those people
he did kill?
How is this a happy ending?
(14:41):
Like I felt it wasn't the endingI wanted.
So that's maybe a themerewriting history.
So I just had this idea thatinstead of Zdi telling these
stories about Simbad, she maybewent on those adventures and was
trying to find a way to topplethis dictator in her kingdom.
That was the first one.
And it's interesting cause youmentioned the Ammo curse, but
(15:03):
even that book went on its ownepic quest.
So it was originally publishedin the States because I have
this really strange situationwhere I had a whole career as a
writer in America and I had acareer as an editor in the uk
but those two things didn'tcross massively because my
fantasy books didn't sell in theuk but they did sell in the US
(15:26):
So it was like this career as anauthor was happening to someone
else.
It was very strange.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Tell me why you think you were able to break through
in the US as a writer when youweren't in the uk?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Truth to be told, when my agent sent out Book of
Wonders, we got lovely feedbackand we got other types of
feedback.
Like Jasmine is a wonderfulwriter, I'm not sure where this
would sit in the market.
Do you think she could writesomething a bit more urban?
Whereas in the States, I thinkthey were just a little bit
(16:00):
ahead in terms of being a blackwriter, what you're allowed to
write, I'm doing aloud inquotation marks, we are there
now, but it actually took quitea long time.
I'm not the only writer of colorwho's had feedback like that
we're talking about back in 2011.
So things have changed massivelyin that time.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
You mentioned there with uh, your interest in
mythology, you talked aboutEgyptian myths and Roman myths
and we've got no myths in there.
Mm-hmm.
Didn't really mention much aboutAfrican mythology but that does
crop up in one of the series forstory mix.
I'm sort of jumping ahead alittle bit, but as we're talking
about the myth side mm-hmm It'sAziz's secret Fairy door does
(16:41):
pull in some of the ideas fromAfrican mythology.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
It's interesting cause when I was a kid those big
books on myths, there wasn't abook called African Mythology.
You had Egyptian mythology butyou didn't have mythology from
West Africa or South Africa orEast Africa really.
I'm sure if they existed Iwould've gobbled those up as
well, but they didn't exist,which is interesting and it's
kind of testament to how muchthings have changed that when I
(17:07):
was coming to creating newseries, there wasn't a wealth of
books where I could delve intoWest West African mythology in
particular.
And so both in Aziza and inFuture Hero, I really do delve
into some of those mythologies.
So Aziza is actually a type ofWest African ferry that you find
in forests.
(17:27):
So I just had this idea about alittle girl who was obsessed
with fairies, um, who's namedafter a ferry and who is given a
ferry door, which she decoratesand it ends up taking her on all
of these fantastical adventuresinto a new land called
Shimmington.
And she's basicallymulticultural fairy tale and
myth mythological creatures.
(17:48):
It's almost like, like thisutopia of all of these creatures
from all of the world livingtogether in harmony.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Let's talk about story mix from what you've told
us so far.
I can see the seeds from yourtime with working partners and
Oxford University press ready tobloom into this exciting new
venture, which is in my opinion,one of the most exciting
developments in children's bookpublishing for a generation.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
There were two things.
I had a little foray after mysecond child was born, I did
some editing or celebrityfiction.
I had an a an epiphany where Iwas using all these skills that
I'd built up over many, manyyears to help execute a vision
for a celebrity.
And I remember having thismoment of, okay, they have their
(18:35):
agenda and I'm one cog in that,but what's my agenda?
Am I really going to use theseskillsets?
Am I realized that actually whatI can do in terms of conceived
story, edit story, all of thosethings are actually quite
precious cause I have thisunique uh, combination of skills
of ideating and that way ofediting and nurturing writers to
(18:59):
get the best out of their voice.
So that was one of theepiphanies.
At the same time my son wasmoving from picture books to
chapter books.
So he was about five or six.
We went to the bookshop, we'relooking at the shelves in water
stones in that five to eightsection.
And I could see Horrid Henry andI could see Beast Quest.
I was in the room when we cameup with Beast Quest.
I'd edited many of those books.
(19:20):
I'd written many of those books.
I could see Rainbow Magic again.
I was a lead editor on RainbowMagic.
So I had this moment, could notsee my son in any of these
books.
And I had this moment of uh,real anger but it wasn't just
anger at publishing, it wasanger at myself.
I was and am publishing, Iedited those books.
I didn't put my hand up and say,Hey guys, we're coming up with a
(19:44):
new series.
It's a fantasy series.
Why don't we make ourprotagonist a kid of color like
a British Asian kid or a blackkid?
It didn't occur to me to evensay it.
And if I had on a series likesomething like Beast Quests,
we'd have over a hundred books.
And at the same time the C L P Ereport had come out and I was
thinking, gosh, if we'd had ahundred book series, we had a
(20:04):
little black boy or Asian boyprotagonist, this number would
look quite different.
So I had a moment there where Ihad to decide where I was gonna
spend my time and I could carryon writing books.
I'm not the fastest at writingbooks.
I could maybe do one book a yearand that would be my impact or I
could take everything I'dlearned working at a packager,
(20:26):
working at OUP P, where Iactually set up our own in-house
ip, sorry IP means intellectualproperty.
But where we would come up inhouse with stories.
And I knew that if I reallywanted to take up space on the
shelf series, fictional was theway to do it.
But write one middle grade ayear or I could sell multiple
series where I was gonna centerkids of color in stories full of
(20:51):
joy and adventure.
And then also I knew that it wasa great way to give new writers
their first chance, you know, asan entry point into the
industry.
So I always see our projects asa launchpad or new talent and I
remember I had writers say to mein the past, working for a
packager is like being paid togo on a writing course because
(21:13):
you get supported editorially inquite an intensive way at the
beginning of your career.
And then you can move on andwrite your own stuff and take
all of that learning with you.
So this whole idea ofapprenticeship, this whole idea
of volume was really important.
I was like right, I'm just gonnastart my own packager and I'm
gonna be really clear andintentional about what that is.
(21:35):
And that's gonna be aboutcentering kids of color in those
stories and it's gonna be aboutcreating publishing
opportunities or writers frommarginalized communities.
And in 2018 that felt like quitea brave thing to say, to be that
focus.
And I applied for a grant fromthe Arts Council, it was called
the D Y C P Fund, which isDevelop your Creative Practice.
(21:57):
And I said in my application,you know, I'm an author, I'm an
editor, I want to segue intobecoming a producer, I wanna set
up my own company and this wouldbe the seed money to do it.
And I got the 10,000 pounds andit just gave me a bit of
breathing space to start thework.
And then I did freelancingaround the side.
That's when I sort of fell intoscreenwriting cuz screenwriting
(22:19):
paid really well.
So I'd just invest that moneyback into the business and we
got started.
It's,
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It's a stunning story and, and you've answered one of
my questions was, sorry, how onearth can you be so productive
and so perfect And of courseit's about teamwork.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So you know, when I startedstory Mix I would often write
alongside the writers that Iwork with just so we could get
that head of steam.
But now I, I don't do that now Ihave a team of people that I
work with who are completelyinvested in the e ethos of what
we do.
I do less of the hands-on lineediting than I used to, but I
(22:58):
still love coming up with theideas and I'm more that
strategic piece.
Now
Speaker 1 (23:02):
This may be an obvious question, but tell us
why you use pseudonyms for thesebooks.
Is it because there's more thanone writer working on a series?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yes, so there's a few reason I want it to be the case.
Our writers graduate fromwriting on our series and go on
to do their own things.
So if we take the example ofAziza and I work with a
wonderful writer on that calledTo Kok who's written an amazing
series con on the Acre and theAcademy of the Sun.
If you haven't read it, go andread it.
(23:33):
And we worked on five books inthe Aziza series and Taller at
the same time, sold her ownmiddle grade novel.
Now if we decided that therewere gonna be more Aziza novels,
I don't, I can't speak fortaller but I'd imagine he's
probably got too much on.
So what the pen name allows isfor me maybe to work with
(23:53):
another writer on that series inthe future and then they too
might also move on and writetheir own middle grade or team.
And so it's, it's a way of beingable to continue a series cause
you put a lot of work intobuilding the characters and the
world and the setup and all ofthose things.
So it allows for thatgraduation.
It also Future Hero, we havemultiple writers on that series,
(24:16):
so I write on that series IsaacHamilton Mackenzie does and so
does Shameika nicely.
So the pen name allows for that.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
I expect you get from time to time people saying can
Lola Mare or Remi Blackwood comeand talk to children in our
school?
Speaker 2 (24:31):
In the past there hasn't always been absolute
honesty about who these pennames are and I've said from the
very beginning and publishershave been really sort of
amenable to this is that we'rejust really honest about the
process because I'm really proudof the process and I'm proud of
story mix.
So you know, normally packagessculpt around in the shadows and
(24:52):
we are definitely not doingthat.
And then the other thing is it'snot the same for every single
title.
There's a wonderful seriescalled the Lian Bell Mysteries
where I work with a writercalled Joanna.
But really story mixed us farless in that that really is
Joanna driving that.
But we are maybe the catalyst toget it started.
(25:14):
So that's different to somethinglike FU Future Hero, which is
storyline in incredible detailand there is much more editorial
support there because thosewriters also at different stages
in their career like Joanna wasthere fully formed.
She just needed the door to beopen just to crack.
And then she was off.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Just tell us Joanna's surname so listeners can look
her up,
Speaker 2 (25:38):
She's called JT Williams and she's a writer and
she's a teacher and she's justfabulous.
Lian Ries are recentlyshortlisted for the Waterstones
book prize.
I'm just so proud that we are apart of their journey and and
those books journey,
Speaker 1 (25:55):
The Lidian Bell mysteries are fantastic.
Tell us a little bit more abouthow they came to be.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
So I actually met Joanna, I was masquerading as a
teacher so that I could go tothis event at the British
Library and it was all aboutblack history and figures from
black history and it was forteachers.
And I sat in Joanna's sessionand she spoke about a man called
Ignatius Samho who was probablythe first black man to vote in
(26:24):
the uk.
He owned a tea shop in Mayfair,he was a composer, he was a man
of letters, he was key in termsof the movement to abolish
slavery.
And she had all thisparaphernalia on the table that
was from the archives from theBritish Library and she spoke
about Ignatia Sancho with suchlove and knowledge and the way
(26:46):
she spoke.
You could tell she's astoryteller.
So once you've been editing fora very long time you get your
spider senses.
So I knew she was a writer whileshe was talking.
I just had a thought of what anamazing precinct for a mystery
that tea shop would be.
So after the session I went andspoke to her and I said, do you
write?
And she went, oh ye yes I doactually.
(27:07):
And in my head I'm like, ofcourse you write, you're a
natural born storyteller.
And I just told her a bit aboutstory mix, which was still just
a little kernel of an idea and Isaid to her, you know, have you
thought about this idea ofhistory and mystery and this T
shot would be a great setting.
And that was the beginning ofthe conversation.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Another series that you've devised, I'd love to know
more about the background to isGranny Jinx.
What can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Granny Jinx was inspired by a video that I'd
watched from YouTube about areal life magician called Jenny
Myers.
She was the first black woman tobe admitted to the Magic Circle
and it was a lovely video of hertalking about her career and
that just got me thinking aboutan older woman who might be a
magician and her relationshipwith her granddaughter.
(27:59):
And I always describe thosebooks as just like a big warm
hug.
It's about the magic of family.
Lots of the series that come outof Story Mix have a high concept
idea.
Granny Jinx isn't really that.
I just really wanted to explorethe idea about grandparents and
how precious they are becausealso we were going through the
pandemic as well and you weren'tgetting to see grandparents.
(28:20):
So it was my granny was veryimportant to me as well.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
It seems to me that you have lots of ideas sparking
off all the time, left, rightcenter.
Do you have too many ideas?
Do you know what to ditch
Speaker 2 (28:36):
?
That is such a good question andit's why I think I'm not like a
proper author because I feellike a proper author can sit
with an idea for many, manymonths and be okay with that.
Whereas the bit where I get myjoy is the spark of the idea.
And now I realize that my job isto capture one and then find
exactly the right writer to sortof flesh it out.
(28:59):
I find it very hard to let anidea go, but I realize I can't
do all of them.
So I am quite ambitious in whatI think I can get done in a
certain amount of time orambitious or optimistic
depending on your point of view.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
It works cuz you get a lot done.
I know you're really keen aboutmeeting readers where they are
and I wonder whether this takesyou into other kinds of media as
well as books.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Books will always be the heart of what I do and what
we do at Story Mix, but childrenmight come into stories in
different ways.
So you know, if they were tocome at it as a TV show and then
they're like, right, I reallyenjoyed that TV show, let me go
and read the book.
I'm really interested inexploring things like that.
(29:49):
So I think watch this space.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
So what's coming up for Story Mix that we should be
really excited about?
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Well, in June we have the launch of series called
Fable House, which is written bythe supremely talented em Nori
or El Nori Fable House, uh, wasinspired by the story of
Britain's brown babies and thesewere babies that were born after
World War ii, born to whiteBritish women and African,
(30:20):
African-American gis.
And I remember reading anarticle on the BBC website about
these kids and lots of thesechildren grew up to be adults
and some of them had quiteunhappy lives, but a group of
them sort of spoke about thisplace called Hol House in Sunset
, which was a house set inamazing grounds that was near
the sea in Near Forest.
And they said it was like amagical place where they had
(30:44):
family brothers and sisters thatlooked like them.
And immediately as often the waywith me, I was sort of
transported to that place and Ithought, you know, near forests,
I love forests and woods, likethey're always feel really
magical to me.
And I knew that Samat had aconnection to Aian legends.
So then those two things sort ofstarted to sort of pollinate in
(31:08):
my mind.
And I had this thought about agroup of children who discover a
night from the round table andthen I remember from my English
degree, uh, reading La MortArthur and I remember there was
a black knight called Pedis aSara.
I was like, well what if theymeet him, these kids that maybe
have never seen a black man intheir, in their lives, right?
(31:28):
So they're kids in care.
And that was the beginning, oh,we didn't talk about this
earlier, but I used to run awriter's retreat with friends
called Book Bound.
And one of the writers I'd hadwho had sort of mentored in this
writer's retreat was called EmmaNorrie.
And she'd written an amazingbook for teenagers about being
in care and I knew that was herbackground and she's also mixed
(31:51):
race as well.
So I felt she would be theperfect person to tell this
story and I loved her writing.
So I approached her with thesort of conceit and the idea and
she said yes.
And we've got a Fable Housepublished by Blooms Spree coming
out in June and she took whatwas a brilliant idea, but she's
taken it and elevated it andmade it something so special and
(32:13):
poured so much of her own livedexperience and love for these
children.
And it just gives me goosebumpsevery time I read it.
Yeah, she's just extraordinary.
Wow,
Speaker 1 (32:23):
You've really wetted my appetite for that.
My goodness.
Can't wait.
Are you able to tell us in theimmediate next step what might
be coming for story mix?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
So I think story Mix is really interested in
childhood all the way through.
So our core work is five to 12,but I'm really interested in
doing books for older childrenand for teenagers.
And I'm really interested indoing books for smaller
children, so not to five.
So I think in terms of our nextphase, it's sort of thinking
(32:56):
about those two ends of themarket.
Also really interested in abouthow you tell stories with
pictures.
So we're thinking a lot aboutthat and how we tell stories as
audio firsts as well becausegoing to the library was a key
part of my development, butthere was another part to it
also, which was this amazingcollection called The
(33:18):
Storyteller.
You get the magazine every weekand there'd be a cassette taped
to the front and it was Pat fullwith stories and I would listen
to that every night.
And actually looking back now,it had some really sort of
famous, um, actresses and actorsreading their stories, but that
access to storytelling camethrough audio.
And I want to explore that a bitmore because not all children
(33:41):
have access to books, but I feellike access to audio there might
almost be less barriers in someways.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Interesting.
Well, Jasmine, I am so thrilledthat you decided not to stick
with the police force.
I know you had the dalliancetherefore a little while, but
what a loss that would've beento a Children's publishing
.
Uh, it's been such a delighttalking to you.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Thank you.
Hello, I'm Nikki Gamble, director of Just Imagine
and host of In The ReadingCorner.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith Jasmine Richards today, an
author, editor and entrepreneur.
She's the founder of Story Mix,a company that has had a visible
impact on children's publishing.
We'll be delving into thatlater.
(00:32):
But first I wanted to know moreabout where Jasmine's own story
started.
Speaker 2 (00:37):
I think sometimes you are sort of born into certain
situations and people might haveexpectations about where you'll
go, right?
And there's that Dr.
Sue quote about the more booksyou read.
And I think when I look at mylife and the things that I've
achieved, it all starts and endswith books really.
So I grew up in council housingin a place called Hornsey, which
(01:02):
is in North London.
And I think what's reallyinteresting is the proximity to
the library.
So a Straud Green Library was myclosest library and even with
Little Legs, it took two and ahalf minutes to get there.
Running down the hill veryquickly from the block of flats
are at the top of the hill.
And I was there all the timebecause I, I was a good reader,
(01:24):
quite an advanced reader.
So the children's section wasn'tas varied as it is now.
So very quickly I was going intothe adult section and trying to
recap and Cookson and otherthings.
I remember once I picked up aHarold Robbins and the librarian
plucked it out my hand said,that is not for you young lady.
Like they were really watchingwhat I was reading and giving me
(01:44):
this diet of books.
There were books at home.
My mom was a great reader ofromance books, so lots of mills
and Boone around the place and Idefinitely saw her reading and I
think that is key.
Like I don't think we need to besnobby about what we read.
It's the act of reading andseeing those grownups in your
life actually reading books likeyeah, definitely lots of books
(02:06):
in the house and lots ofcookbooks as well.
And I still love readingcookbooks almost as fiction.
I feel like they're greatrecords of our times in terms of
what was available to me toread, I was a great fan of books
like Anna Green, Gables,Matilda, a lot of those books
(02:28):
where it was a strong youngfemale protagonist.
I think I was aware that Ididn't see myself directly in
those books, but I would catchglimpses of myself in terms of
personality traits.
Do remember that the first timeI felt like I'd properly saw
myself was in a book called Rollof Thunder, hear My Cry and that
(02:50):
was at school and a reallywonderful book, but quite a
traumatic book.
And I remember maybe feelingsadness that that was the first
time I saw a little girl on thecover that looked like me.
I tended to see myself more ontelevision.
So something like X-Men, whichwas a, was a really popular
cartoon at the time.
(03:11):
Really sort of identifying withStorm to the point where I
imagined I could control theweather.
So you know, this whole idea ofseeing yourself and then
reenacting that stuff isabsolutely key in terms of
engagement.
I think I was a completebookworm and I saw enough of
myself to feed the appetite, butI think for other children not
seeing themselves has an effecton their reading engagement.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Mm, that's really interesting.
I know that some writers ofcolor that I've spoken with over
the years have talked aboutreading the classics of
children's literature andrecognizing aspects of
themselves in those stories.
These characters are like atemplate onto which they
superimpose themselves.
But of course for many readersthe lack of characters of color
(03:56):
will be completely off-put.
As concerning, perhaps even moreconcerning is what you're saying
about the potentially traumaticexperience of encountering
negative narratives even whenthey're written from the very
best of intentions.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I hundred percent agree, yes.
Like it needs to be a balance,doesn't it?
And I feel like so oftenintroduction to Black history
comes from a place of traumainstead of all the things that
are also celebratory.
So at least give us balance.
And I think it's great.
There's lots of really urgentconversations about how we teach
(04:34):
history in the uk, but I wouldstill want balance.
Like it's not all trauma and youare right.
You know, certain childrenwouldn't have seen themselves
framed in that way.
So they're like, oh there's allthis bad stuff that is connected
with my heritage and myethnicity and, and that could
happen at school, not in thehome environment.
And that's coming to them out ofnowhere.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
You studied English literature, uh, Oxford.
Mm-hmm
What's getting there?
Straightforward.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
No, getting there was not straightforward.
So I had this aspiration ofbeing an author from when I was
quite a small person.
One of my favorite authorsactually was Philip Pullman and
Ruby in the Smoke Series.
And I remember reading the bitabout the author in the back of
the book and it said PhilipPullman went to Oxford and that
(05:23):
planted a little seed because Ithought obviously incorrectly
that to be an author you had togo to Oxford.
So I made things much harder formyself than that.
Imagine you needed to.
And I had gone to a school inHornsey Hornsey School for
Girls, which was an amazingschool in terms of kids on the
higher paper there were onlyvery few of us and it was quite
(05:43):
hard for them to teach that partof the curriculum in class.
So teachers would give up theirlunchtimes and after school to
teach us to make sure we gotthrough everything.
And I got to the end of sort ofGCSEs and I said to my school,
okay, see you later.
I'm going off to this school inCo Fosters, which is a quite
affluent place in Enfield.
And they were like, please don'tgo Jasmine stay.
(06:05):
And I was like, I'm sorry.
Like we could always been quitea pragmatic person.
I was like, the facilities atthis school is amazing and I
wanted to do a media studies alevel and they've been this
amazing editing suite.
So I left now at this newschool, they didn't know me at
all.
They knew nothing about me.
And so when I said to them Iwant to apply to Oxford, they
(06:26):
were like, well you know, don'tbe ridiculous.
You've done the wrong A levels,you've done psychology, English
and media studies.
So they refused to um, supportmy application.
So I did the whole thing bymyself to the point that even
when I went to my interview atOxford, because in the back of
the prospectus it said thatthere were 30 people that did
English at Lady Margaret Hall.
(06:47):
I assume that was 30 people peryear.
It was only when I was at
to the other young people fromall over the country and they're
going, gosh, it's socompetitive.
There's not a lot of spaces.
And I'm like, oh there's 30spaces for English.
And they're like, no, it's 10tops.
Uh, suddenly felt very much outof my depth.
(07:09):
I think I was extremely lucky interms of the college that I
chose.
Lmh always ahead of its time interms of state school access and
the people who interviewed mewere really kind.
And I remember having aconversation in our interview,
been studying the wife of Bar,which I loved, I loved.
And then my essay had been onThe Handmade Tale and my tutor,
(07:31):
who's still a very dear friendnow, uh, Dr.
Helen Bar, professor HelenBarish, she's now just asked me
a question that for the firsttime I was making all these
connections between the wife ofBath and the Handmade Tale.
And I think my little 17 yearold brain must have just, I
think she must have seen it onmy face.
And what she would say is,that's all you wanna see is
(07:52):
someone who teaches is thatexcitement.
You know, you may not have hadall of the preparation that
other students had, but thatappetite for learning is the
thing
Speaker 1 (08:00):
It's uplifting to hear and of course things are
changing and they were probablybeginning to change around the
time that you were a student.
In fact, you went on to do someof the access work at Oxford.
Tell us about that.
Speaker 2 (08:15):
So after I finished my degree, I went and ran
something called the Oxford aScheme, which was a university
led organization that was allabout going into inner city
state schools and encouragingkids to apply to higher
education, but Oxford inparticular and the university
funded my salary.
So basically it was my firstjob.
I remember the real light bulbmoment for me cause I'd always
(08:37):
thought, you know, come fromsocial housing inner city
London, you know, I'd hadcertain challenges getting to
Oxford but we would go to otherparts of the country and I
remember being in Manchester anddoing this talk with these kids
and they were like, oh but Miss,which felt ridiculous cause I
was like 21, but they were like,but you sound like you and we
(09:00):
sound like us.
So like of course you got intoOxford.
And it was the first time Irealized that sort of regional
divide and the privilege thatcomes with being Southern,
everyone has challenges butthere's different layers of
challenges.
So that was really illuminatingfor me.
Speaker 1 (09:18):
It reminds me of a video that we used to show
students on our varieties ofEnglish course.
Bob Hoskins, the wonderfulworking class actor who was
raised in Finsbury Park, wastalking about visiting an
exclusive London club with ablack friend.
He was concerned that they wouldnot gain entry and indeed they
(09:38):
did have difficulty, but it wasHoskins accent that was the
problem.
His RP speaking friend had nodifficulty at all.
So it's really nuanced.
Let's talk about editing.
I first met you when you wereworking as a commissioning
editor at Oxford UniversityPress.
What did editing teach you aboutwriters and writing?
Speaker 2 (10:02):
And my first job was at Penguin where I got to do
some editorial and that's when Iknew I wanted to be an editor,
but there wasn't a role for methere.
So then I went to work for apackager called Working
Partners.
And it was there that I actuallylearned the craft of editing and
plotting and structure.
The thing I feel like I learnedat O U P was around care.
(10:25):
So my boss, wonderful editorcalled Lis Cross and I feel like
what I learned from her is howyou are the sort of custo an a
custodian of an or this careerand how you are there for them.
Not just in their text but inall parts of their career
really.
And I used to share an officewith a wonderful editor called
Ron Heep and I remember having aconversation with him, I think I
(10:48):
was having quite a tricky edit,just couldn't get the book where
it needed to be.
And he said, Jasmine, sometimeswhat you need to do is like, you
know, the book is like a kid andsometimes you're just out of
time and you've gotta send themoff to school.
So you've just gotta wipe theirfaces down, give them a little
kiss and send them out into theworld.
Like the time is up, you do thebest that you can.
Speaker 1 (11:09):
You're also a writer books such as The Secrets of Val
Halla, uh, the Amoro Curse.
It has to be said that you'refull of surprises.
I recall when Oliver Twisted waspublished under the name JD
Sharpe probably about 10 yearsago.
And it wasn't at all what Iexpected.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Well, do you know that is the easiest book I've
ever written.
I've written 15 books, I'vewritten books for teenagers,
I've written picture books, I'vewritten lots of different types
of books.
Oliver Twisted what I saw was an, was an opportunity so that
there had been a lot ofconversations around Dickens
making Dickens, uh, relevant toteenagers finding a way in for
(11:51):
them.
And at the same time time therewas a real trend for all of
these mashups.
I'm sure you remember them.
Um, Nikki.
So pride in Prejudice andZombies, which was an adult
trend, not something that we'dseen, uh, for kids or for teens.
And I just remember thinking,goodness me, there's a, there's
an opportunity here to exploresomething.
Like I was sort of did the ring,do I commission someone to write
(12:15):
this or do I just write it?
Because I have such a clear ideain my head about what this thing
can and should be.
And I've never tried the genreof horror, but I do enjoy
reading horror and I juststarted writing it and I kind of
used the original text as thelaunchpad.
It was actually quite anacademic exercise in terms of
what you kept and what youdidn't keep.
(12:36):
And then in terms of thatcharacter of Oliver Casting No
Shade on Mr.
Dickens, but Oliver does notchange as a character, right?
Oliver affects other people, buthe's quite a stationary, I would
even say stagnant character.
So I really wanted to play withthis idea of change for Oliver
and Choices and all of thesethings that weren't in the
original text.
(12:57):
Now what was so wonderful aboutthat work is I'd go into schools
and do school visits and somekids would be outraged, really
outraged that I'd taken OliverTwist and I'd done this, that
I'd kind of twisted thenarrative and would come out
fully in defense of CharlesDickens.
I was like, well this is done.
Exactly the thing that we sortof set out to do is for them to
(13:18):
engage.
And actually there's a lot ofconversations now about whether
you leave things alone, right?
Do you leave it exactly how thatwriter wanted it to be?
Do you update things?
Do you change things?
That is a great way to engageyoung people in books because
they have very strong opinions.
It can be quite righteous intheir belief.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Of course a lot of your other books do have this
thread of myth running throughthem, including the Omoro Curse,
which was published last year.
Mm-hmm Was myths something thatyou were reading all those years
ago in that library as a child?
Or did that come to you laterthrough your studies?
Speaker 2 (13:58):
Oh no, a hundred percent that that small kid in
the library in North London, Iwas absolutely obsessed with
myths, Roman myths, Greek myths,Egyptian mythology.
And actually the first book thatI ever wrote was called The Book
of Wonders and was inspired by1,001 Nights.
And I remember reading thosestories and sort of feeling
(14:21):
outraged by the end of thestories.
After 1,001 ni nights Sheard haschanged the saltan through her
stories, he's become a betterman.
He's no longer gonna lockpeople's heads off and they live
happily ever after.
And I remember thinking, wellwhat about all of those people
he did kill?
How is this a happy ending?
(14:41):
Like I felt it wasn't the endingI wanted.
So that's maybe a theme
So I just had this idea thatinstead of Zdi telling these
stories about Simbad, she maybewent on those adventures and was
trying to find a way to topplethis dictator in her kingdom.
That was the first one.
And it's interesting cause youmentioned the Ammo curse, but
(15:03):
even that book went on its ownepic quest.
So it was originally publishedin the States because I have
this really strange situationwhere I had a whole career as a
writer in America and I had acareer as an editor in the uk
but those two things didn'tcross massively because my
fantasy books didn't sell in theuk but they did sell in the US
(15:26):
So it was like this career as anauthor was happening to someone
else.
It was very strange.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Tell me why you think you were able to break through
in the US as a writer when youweren't in the uk?
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Truth to be told, when my agent sent out Book of
Wonders, we got lovely feedbackand we got other types of
feedback.
Like Jasmine is a wonderfulwriter, I'm not sure where this
would sit in the market.
Do you think she could writesomething a bit more urban?
Whereas in the States, I thinkthey were just a little bit
(16:00):
ahead in terms of being a blackwriter, what you're allowed to
write, I'm doing aloud inquotation marks, we are there
now, but it actually took quitea long time.
I'm not the only writer of colorwho's had feedback like that
we're talking about back in 2011.
So things have changed massivelyin that time.
Speaker 1 (16:19):
You mentioned there with uh, your interest in
mythology, you talked aboutEgyptian myths and Roman myths
and we've got no myths in there.
Mm-hmm.
Didn't really mention much aboutAfrican mythology but that does
crop up in one of the series forstory mix.
I'm sort of jumping ahead alittle bit, but as we're talking
about the myth side mm-hmm It'sAziz's secret Fairy door does
(16:41):
pull in some of the ideas fromAfrican mythology.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
It's interesting cause when I was a kid those big
books on myths, there wasn't abook called African Mythology.
You had Egyptian mythology butyou didn't have mythology from
West Africa or South Africa orEast Africa really.
I'm sure if they existed Iwould've gobbled those up as
well, but they didn't exist,which is interesting and it's
kind of testament to how muchthings have changed that when I
(17:07):
was coming to creating newseries, there wasn't a wealth of
books where I could delve intoWest West African mythology in
particular.
And so both in Aziza and inFuture Hero, I really do delve
into some of those mythologies.
So Aziza is actually a type ofWest African ferry that you find
in forests.
(17:27):
So I just had this idea about alittle girl who was obsessed
with fairies, um, who's namedafter a ferry and who is given a
ferry door, which she decoratesand it ends up taking her on all
of these fantastical adventuresinto a new land called
Shimmington.
And she's basicallymulticultural fairy tale and
myth mythological creatures.
(17:48):
It's almost like, like thisutopia of all of these creatures
from all of the world livingtogether in harmony.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Let's talk about story mix from what you've told
us so far.
I can see the seeds from yourtime with working partners and
Oxford University press ready tobloom into this exciting new
venture, which is in my opinion,one of the most exciting
developments in children's bookpublishing for a generation.
Speaker 2 (18:15):
There were two things.
I had a little foray after mysecond child was born, I did
some editing or celebrityfiction.
I had an a an epiphany where Iwas using all these skills that
I'd built up over many, manyyears to help execute a vision
for a celebrity.
And I remember having thismoment of, okay, they have their
(18:35):
agenda and I'm one cog in that,but what's my agenda?
Am I really going to use theseskillsets?
Am I realized that actually whatI can do in terms of conceived
story, edit story, all of thosethings are actually quite
precious cause I have thisunique uh, combination of skills
of ideating and that way ofediting and nurturing writers to
(18:59):
get the best out of their voice.
So that was one of theepiphanies.
At the same time my son wasmoving from picture books to
chapter books.
So he was about five or six.
We went to the bookshop, we'relooking at the shelves in water
stones in that five to eightsection.
And I could see Horrid Henry andI could see Beast Quest.
I was in the room when we cameup with Beast Quest.
I'd edited many of those books.
(19:20):
I'd written many of those books.
I could see Rainbow Magic again.
I was a lead editor on RainbowMagic.
So I had this moment, could notsee my son in any of these
books.
And I had this moment of uh,real anger but it wasn't just
anger at publishing, it wasanger at myself.
I was and am publishing, Iedited those books.
I didn't put my hand up and say,Hey guys, we're coming up with a
(19:44):
new series.
It's a fantasy series.
Why don't we make ourprotagonist a kid of color like
a British Asian kid or a blackkid?
It didn't occur to me to evensay it.
And if I had on a series likesomething like Beast Quests,
we'd have over a hundred books.
And at the same time the C L P Ereport had come out and I was
thinking, gosh, if we'd had ahundred book series, we had a
(20:04):
little black boy or Asian boyprotagonist, this number would
look quite different.
So I had a moment there where Ihad to decide where I was gonna
spend my time and I could carryon writing books.
I'm not the fastest at writingbooks.
I could maybe do one book a yearand that would be my impact or I
could take everything I'dlearned working at a packager,
(20:26):
working at OUP P, where Iactually set up our own in-house
ip, sorry IP means intellectualproperty.
But where we would come up inhouse with stories.
And I knew that if I reallywanted to take up space on the
shelf series, fictional was theway to do it.
But write one middle grade ayear or I could sell multiple
series where I was gonna centerkids of color in stories full of
(20:51):
joy and adventure.
And then also I knew that it wasa great way to give new writers
their first chance, you know, asan entry point into the
industry.
So I always see our projects asa launchpad or new talent and I
remember I had writers say to mein the past, working for a
packager is like being paid togo on a writing course because
(21:13):
you get supported editorially inquite an intensive way at the
beginning of your career.
And then you can move on andwrite your own stuff and take
all of that learning with you.
So this whole idea ofapprenticeship, this whole idea
of volume was really important.
I was like right, I'm just gonnastart my own packager and I'm
gonna be really clear andintentional about what that is.
(21:35):
And that's gonna be aboutcentering kids of color in those
stories and it's gonna be aboutcreating publishing
opportunities or writers frommarginalized communities.
And in 2018 that felt like quitea brave thing to say, to be that
focus.
And I applied for a grant fromthe Arts Council, it was called
the D Y C P Fund, which isDevelop your Creative Practice.
(21:57):
And I said in my application,you know, I'm an author, I'm an
editor, I want to segue intobecoming a producer, I wanna set
up my own company and this wouldbe the seed money to do it.
And I got the 10,000 pounds andit just gave me a bit of
breathing space to start thework.
And then I did freelancingaround the side.
That's when I sort of fell intoscreenwriting cuz screenwriting
(22:19):
paid really well.
So I'd just invest that moneyback into the business and we
got started.
It's,
Speaker 1 (22:26):
It's a stunning story and, and you've answered one of
my questions was, sorry, how onearth can you be so productive
and so perfect And of courseit's about teamwork.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Yeah, a hundred percent.
So you know, when I startedstory Mix I would often write
alongside the writers that Iwork with just so we could get
that head of steam.
But now I, I don't do that now Ihave a team of people that I
work with who are completelyinvested in the e ethos of what
we do.
I do less of the hands-on lineediting than I used to, but I
(22:58):
still love coming up with theideas and I'm more that
strategic piece.
Now
Speaker 1 (23:02):
This may be an obvious question, but tell us
why you use pseudonyms for thesebooks.
Is it because there's more thanone writer working on a series?
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Yes, so there's a few reason I want it to be the case.
Our writers graduate fromwriting on our series and go on
to do their own things.
So if we take the example ofAziza and I work with a
wonderful writer on that calledTo Kok who's written an amazing
series con on the Acre and theAcademy of the Sun.
If you haven't read it, go andread it.
(23:33):
And we worked on five books inthe Aziza series and Taller at
the same time, sold her ownmiddle grade novel.
Now if we decided that therewere gonna be more Aziza novels,
I don't, I can't speak fortaller but I'd imagine he's
probably got too much on.
So what the pen name allows isfor me maybe to work with
(23:53):
another writer on that series inthe future and then they too
might also move on and writetheir own middle grade or team.
And so it's, it's a way of beingable to continue a series cause
you put a lot of work intobuilding the characters and the
world and the setup and all ofthose things.
So it allows for thatgraduation.
It also Future Hero, we havemultiple writers on that series,
(24:16):
so I write on that series IsaacHamilton Mackenzie does and so
does Shameika nicely.
So the pen name allows for that.
Speaker 1 (24:23):
I expect you get from time to time people saying can
Lola Mare or Remi Blackwood comeand talk to children in our
school?
Speaker 2 (24:31):
In the past there hasn't always been absolute
honesty about who these pennames are and I've said from the
very beginning and publishershave been really sort of
amenable to this is that we'rejust really honest about the
process because I'm really proudof the process and I'm proud of
story mix.
So you know, normally packagessculpt around in the shadows and
(24:52):
we are definitely not doingthat.
And then the other thing is it'snot the same for every single
title.
There's a wonderful seriescalled the Lian Bell Mysteries
where I work with a writercalled Joanna.
But really story mixed us farless in that that really is
Joanna driving that.
But we are maybe the catalyst toget it started.
(25:14):
So that's different to somethinglike FU Future Hero, which is
storyline in incredible detailand there is much more editorial
support there because thosewriters also at different stages
in their career like Joanna wasthere fully formed.
She just needed the door to beopen just to crack.
And then she was off.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Just tell us Joanna's surname so listeners can look
her up,
Speaker 2 (25:38):
She's called JT Williams and she's a writer and
she's a teacher and she's justfabulous.
Lian Ries are recentlyshortlisted for the Waterstones
book prize.
I'm just so proud that we are apart of their journey and and
those books journey,
Speaker 1 (25:55):
The Lidian Bell mysteries are fantastic.
Tell us a little bit more abouthow they came to be.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
So I actually met Joanna, I was masquerading as a
teacher so that I could go tothis event at the British
Library and it was all aboutblack history and figures from
black history and it was forteachers.
And I sat in Joanna's sessionand she spoke about a man called
Ignatius Samho who was probablythe first black man to vote in
(26:24):
the uk.
He owned a tea shop in Mayfair,he was a composer, he was a man
of letters, he was key in termsof the movement to abolish
slavery.
And she had all thisparaphernalia on the table that
was from the archives from theBritish Library and she spoke
about Ignatia Sancho with suchlove and knowledge and the way
(26:46):
she spoke.
You could tell she's astoryteller.
So once you've been editing fora very long time you get your
spider senses.
So I knew she was a writer whileshe was talking.
I just had a thought of what anamazing precinct for a mystery
that tea shop would be.
So after the session I went andspoke to her and I said, do you
write?
And she went, oh ye yes I doactually.
(27:07):
And in my head I'm like, ofcourse you write, you're a
natural born storyteller.
And I just told her a bit aboutstory mix, which was still just
a little kernel of an idea and Isaid to her, you know, have you
thought about this idea ofhistory and mystery and this T
shot would be a great setting.
And that was the beginning ofthe conversation.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
Another series that you've devised, I'd love to know
more about the background to isGranny Jinx.
What can you tell us about that?
Speaker 2 (27:36):
Granny Jinx was inspired by a video that I'd
watched from YouTube about areal life magician called Jenny
Myers.
She was the first black woman tobe admitted to the Magic Circle
and it was a lovely video of hertalking about her career and
that just got me thinking aboutan older woman who might be a
magician and her relationshipwith her granddaughter.
(27:59):
And I always describe thosebooks as just like a big warm
hug.
It's about the magic of family.
Lots of the series that come outof Story Mix have a high concept
idea.
Granny Jinx isn't really that.
I just really wanted to explorethe idea about grandparents and
how precious they are becausealso we were going through the
pandemic as well and you weren'tgetting to see grandparents.
(28:20):
So it was my granny was veryimportant to me as well.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
It seems to me that you have lots of ideas sparking
off all the time, left, rightcenter.
Do you have too many ideas?
Do you know what to ditch
Speaker 2 (28:36):
That is such a good question andit's why I think I'm not like a
proper author because I feellike a proper author can sit
with an idea for many, manymonths and be okay with that.
Whereas the bit where I get myjoy is the spark of the idea.
And now I realize that my job isto capture one and then find
exactly the right writer to sortof flesh it out.
(28:59):
I find it very hard to let anidea go, but I realize I can't
do all of them.
So I am quite ambitious in whatI think I can get done in a
certain amount of time orambitious or optimistic
depending on your point of view.
Speaker 1 (29:15):
It works cuz you get a lot done.
I know you're really keen aboutmeeting readers where they are
and I wonder whether this takesyou into other kinds of media as
well as books.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Books will always be the heart of what I do and what
we do at Story Mix, but childrenmight come into stories in
different ways.
So you know, if they were tocome at it as a TV show and then
they're like, right, I reallyenjoyed that TV show, let me go
and read the book.
I'm really interested inexploring things like that.
(29:49):
So I think watch this space.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
So what's coming up for Story Mix that we should be
really excited about?
Speaker 2 (29:59):
Well, in June we have the launch of series called
Fable House, which is written bythe supremely talented em Nori
or El Nori Fable House, uh, wasinspired by the story of
Britain's brown babies and thesewere babies that were born after
World War ii, born to whiteBritish women and African,
(30:20):
African-American gis.
And I remember reading anarticle on the BBC website about
these kids and lots of thesechildren grew up to be adults
and some of them had quiteunhappy lives, but a group of
them sort of spoke about thisplace called Hol House in Sunset
, which was a house set inamazing grounds that was near
the sea in Near Forest.
And they said it was like amagical place where they had
(30:44):
family brothers and sisters thatlooked like them.
And immediately as often the waywith me, I was sort of
transported to that place and Ithought, you know, near forests,
I love forests and woods, likethey're always feel really
magical to me.
And I knew that Samat had aconnection to Aian legends.
So then those two things sort ofstarted to sort of pollinate in
(31:08):
my mind.
And I had this thought about agroup of children who discover a
night from the round table andthen I remember from my English
degree, uh, reading La MortArthur and I remember there was
a black knight called Pedis aSara.
I was like, well what if theymeet him, these kids that maybe
have never seen a black man intheir, in their lives, right?
(31:28):
So they're kids in care.
And that was the beginning, oh,we didn't talk about this
earlier, but I used to run awriter's retreat with friends
called Book Bound.
And one of the writers I'd hadwho had sort of mentored in this
writer's retreat was called EmmaNorrie.
And she'd written an amazingbook for teenagers about being
in care and I knew that was herbackground and she's also mixed
(31:51):
race as well.
So I felt she would be theperfect person to tell this
story and I loved her writing.
So I approached her with thesort of conceit and the idea and
she said yes.
And we've got a Fable Housepublished by Blooms Spree coming
out in June and she took whatwas a brilliant idea, but she's
taken it and elevated it andmade it something so special and
(32:13):
poured so much of her own livedexperience and love for these
children.
And it just gives me goosebumpsevery time I read it.
Yeah, she's just extraordinary.
Wow,
Speaker 1 (32:23):
You've really wetted my appetite for that.
My goodness.
Can't wait.
Are you able to tell us in theimmediate next step what might
be coming for story mix?
Speaker 2 (32:33):
So I think story Mix is really interested in
childhood all the way through.
So our core work is five to 12,but I'm really interested in
doing books for older childrenand for teenagers.
And I'm really interested indoing books for smaller
children, so not to five.
So I think in terms of our nextphase, it's sort of thinking
(32:56):
about those two ends of themarket.
Also really interested in abouthow you tell stories with
pictures.
So we're thinking a lot aboutthat and how we tell stories as
audio firsts as well becausegoing to the library was a key
part of my development, butthere was another part to it
also, which was this amazingcollection called The
(33:18):
Storyteller.
You get the magazine every weekand there'd be a cassette taped
to the front and it was Pat fullwith stories and I would listen
to that every night.
And actually looking back now,it had some really sort of
famous, um, actresses and actorsreading their stories, but that
access to storytelling camethrough audio.
And I want to explore that a bitmore because not all children
(33:41):
have access to books, but I feellike access to audio there might
almost be less barriers in someways.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Interesting.
Well, Jasmine, I am so thrilledthat you decided not to stick
with the police force.
I know you had the dalliancetherefore a little while, but
what a loss that would've beento a Children's publishing
Uh, it's been such a delighttalking to you.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Thank you.
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