January 24, 2022 • 48 mins
Billy Moore gets in the ring with two of his longtime friends. Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (https://www.affinityinternationalpublishing.com/) and Portland based businessman and boxing promoter Paul Brown.
These three men have a history paved with the legacy and the wisdom of giants. They were all blessed to know and work with some of the greatest boxers and more importantly the greatest human beings of all time. One being Light Heavyweight Champion Archie Moore and the other being Heavyweight Champion Muhammad Ali.
These three friends talk shop, old days, legacy and greatness.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dwayne E. Shigg (00:51):
Anybody can use foundation teaches our youth to
step off into life with theirbest foot forward without
cowardice, but with courage anddignity. ABC was founded by
legendary light heavyweightchampion Archie Moore in 1957.
He had a heart and passion forhelping the youth. He believed
if we went into the business ofprevention, we could save
billions of dollars and millionsof lives. He started ABC to
(01:14):
teach us the basic ABCs of life.
Are you concerned about theworld today? Do you want to help
train our youth to be the changeneeded in the world? Join us in
the fight for equality in thefight for justice in the fight
for our youth. If you would liketo help, go to www dot ABC youth
foundation.org. That'swww.ABCyouthfoundation.org Be
(01:34):
well and be blessed.
Billy Moore (01:40):
Our guest today on the in the ring with Billy
Moore. It's going to be prettyexciting today. We have the
distinguished Paul Brown and theuncomfortable Dr. Muddy with a
book called Muhammad Ali, theuntold story. Those are guests
(02:06):
on interbreeding with BillyMoore where anything goes stay
tuned. Welcome to in the ringwith Billy Moore. Yeah, we're
not we're not in Idaho. Now.
We're not. We were not in Idaho.
Paul Brown (02:22):
We got all the legends that we need baby. Yes.
We were in Oregon by had to pullover. Billy. He called me late
last night. So you got to callit nine o'clock in the morning.
I got meetings and stuff. But hechanged changed the time for us
(02:46):
to get me in there. So I canappreciate that.
Billy Moore (02:49):
Right. In the ring with Billy more anything goes
down.
Paul Brown (02:56):
That's it. You love both of you brothers. And I and
I appreciate that. That generalengineer, you have Mr. Terence
and Terence. And I look forwardto the conversation today that
we have. And it's been a longtime for all of us. You know, I
(03:16):
mean? Yeah, I know. We talked onthe phone. It was good to hear
Marty's voice a couple monthsago. But it's been a long time.
So I'm glad that we're here andable to discuss the world today.
Billy Moore (03:29):
Well, it's so great. Because we go back how
many years?
Paul Brown (03:34):
By 50 By 50 years 5060 years. We know building.
Our first encounter was in 1973in Boise, Idaho when you when
(03:54):
you came in, he was boxing upthere and you had your dad's
robot. And I'll never forget, Inever forget that when you got
the ring up there. And the funnything about it, it was good
enough to hold a town about 1500people. But 5000 people showed
(04:14):
up that night for the fight andthey couldn't they couldn't
squeeze another soul in therebut but Gabi was one heck of
Moeller. Yes, he was. It's justit was just an amazing time and
foundation. You know, last timeI talked to timani A couple
months ago that we were talkingand some memories came up from
(04:35):
the old days in Idaho and Lord,behold, God moves in a
mysterious, mysterious way isI'll send it to you guys later.
Have Mati And Ali's shown up inBoise the first time and and
Muhammad is holding a child atthe airport. So man things
things happen. Definitely Godmoves in mysterious ways.
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (05:00):
You remember?
Yeah, Night
Paul Brown (05:01):
night, the first time it was 1985. And, and I was
talking to you, I was talking toyou negotiate in enricher hertz
field. And I remember her sriaYeah, in Virginia, I believe.
(05:22):
And he, he's you said, Paul, Iknow, I know you struggling a
little bit, you know, understandthis, tell me what it is you
want. And, and my ego would letme do that I will still tap
dancing and thing. And you said,Paul, I'll get the ticket. Just
Just tell me what it is that youneed. And we can take care of
the rest when we get there. And,and lo and behold, you know, you
(05:44):
always get your word, you wouldsit me down in the room, show me
everything, all the expensive,and this is what I'm doing for
you. And I've always beengrateful for that now, but I
still would like to fight youbecause you threatened to throw
me over the bridge, not just butimportant to as soon as soon as
you got into Portland at theHilton Hotel, we went up to this
(06:06):
penthouse suite. And Billy said,y'all be cool, man, y'all just
be cool. And Billy sort ofstayed in the middle of us. It
makes you that was gonna becool. But we just love each
other as brothers and you wantto see me to see you. And I was
happy that you all he always,always believed in what me and
Billy was doing, you know, inthat era, man. So that's, that's
(06:26):
just great foundation and thethings that you've done with
your book and your family. Andthe history of you traveling the
world with Muhammad Ali and inin Archie Moore and in living,
you know, living a life of allahGod wants you to do and stuff.
So I'm very appreciative of youtoday, Mr. Mahdi. And Billy
Billy Moore (06:50):
We give God the glory, thank you for holding on
to a need to come back here andgather and talk with one
another. Go ahead, Doc.
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (07:00):
I said, motto 1985 to come alive in 1985.
They used to model thecomfortable water native fat.
That's all right. And we waswhen I say coming live, we would
want to activate the goal was toactivate Ali in every section
(07:20):
here now parts of the world andhowever we could. And when you
call, the whole thing was we gota call. And we can activate
this. And that's what I wastrying to get you to do. I said,
I know you're trying to put yourpromotion together. And I know
Idaho, I leave never been toIdaho. I said, this is how we
can work it. We're going to comethere, we're going to help you
(07:41):
but one way or the other, wejust have to figure out how
we're going to do it. And yeah,hershfield was telling me
tomorrow, you're not gonna beyou can't be no social worker
with Ali as well. According tomine, to record my religion, I'm
supposed to be a social worker.
I said, religion to me, this isa real life. I'm totally happy
to have I come in contact withas your brother needs some help.
Absolutely. And how he doesn'tmind happening. This is serious
(08:04):
tells us what we rent we pay forour room in heaven. And I'll use
this as an opportunity tofinally put the act of service
in and so we join you in turnout to be okay, Paul, did you
have to be one of them? Not allof them. But you right up there
with Darren Kane and Barbarin inthe restaurant brother in my
eyes because you didn't get muchmore character than all of them.
(08:26):
So I
Paul Brown (08:32):
surely appreciate that. That means a lot to me and
how we've come up and how we wasraised in the old wisdom of
Muhammad Ali and Archie Moore.
What they would sit you down andtalk to you about man it was it
was still today it'sbreathtaking. And every day that
it seems like when we do comeclose to talking. There's
there's something that'sspecial, the movement that still
(08:53):
in your you inherit in yourheart for what you learn from
these gentlemen, throughout yourlife, and even now there's a
marvelous special I've beenwatching day to day two was last
night and Night Out watch theseries of OPB this start of
Muhammad Ali. And and in thatera, of course it was cash play.
(09:17):
But you know, there's stuff Iwas telling Billy this morning
that I've never seen. I forgot.
I knew about more more than fourand all those things. But I even
forgot that that Ali Ali andArchie fought. But were so great
friends throughout the years.
They never talked about that ina mean when they were when we
(09:41):
were working together. So thatwas that was a time of
foundation then and then Archietrained him as well. That's
right. That that was that wassomething that came back in
history but seems like thisyear. I'm seeing stuff on Both
both gentlemen that I never seenbefore on tape, or radio. And
(10:03):
I've even shared it with somehistorians in England that their
parents worked with ollie overthere when all he would come
over there to London. And a lotof different tapes that they
never seen. But this last night,the series on OPV a, I've never
witnessed some of the thingsthat I've been witness last
(10:27):
couple of days. And it's, it's,it's amazing. And it goes back
now. Hey, Marty, I remember, Iremember getting jumped on by,
by by Herbert Muhammad, you knowme and send their money. And
Herbert was a good looking manwhen he was when he was young.
But I remember those, I rememberthose discussions with with
(10:49):
Herbert and yourself. And, andBilly back in the day, and I
said, Man, that's, that's somelegendary stuff. And I never
seen any lies. At 61 years old.
Now, the history I've beenseeing this last couple of days,
you know, me, but I know onething that God is real, and that
(11:12):
the opportunities and the timesthat Ali was even talked to my
mother, evangelist andmissionary, ew cup, brown, that
they would always exchange tobuy the Bible, and the Koran,
the Torah, and, and, and, andtalk about the faith of God,
because you got to be able toknow if you know, one, you must
(11:35):
know the other at the end of theday, and that's and that's,
that's real talk there. andstuff. So I remember I remember
those days, my brother,
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (11:44):
my brother, I was, it was a blessing to be a
part of color that and, andthat's the whole point of life.
I mean, it's a memories that youcapture, and you live forever on
those memories. And thosememories. All I have is
memories, but Ollie and Archieis the friendship that they had.
(12:04):
And that Audi the respect thatAli had to it more, and he told
me that I laid down thefoundation for his training and
showed him children theimportance of training, and how
to focus in his training and PCgot that NASA manager of the day
he got that from Magic war. Andhe was painful for that. He
(12:25):
always always told me he said itwas because he was in his prime.
He was one of the best fightersin the world. So that respect is
still there. Well, that's sohere we are. Everywhere to book
pop, if you got to book No, I
Paul Brown (12:43):
have not got to hurry. I
Billy Moore (12:51):
don't get the real like y'all.
Paul Brown (13:02):
book is The Best New York bestseller. And we need to
get the book. I know Billy, Iwas surprised Billy read it
before me because he wasbreaking it down a couple months
ago to me, you don't mean but Ineed to get the book and read it
and get you get you out here forsigning a signing session at the
bookstore. And we go wedefinitely got to make that make
(13:22):
that happen. I got anothergentleman I want you to meet is
a great, great man as well, man.
But I mean, I'm looking forwardto reading that book and see how
many times you put my name inthe book. And that's that that's
gonna sell a lot to
Billy Moore (13:37):
you. That's what you got to know what you got to
be careful. Go see Paul, when Itold Paul about the podcast, and
he was telling me well, youknow, you know I get a you know,
man, I get a appearance fee. Isay what? appearance fee
Paul Brown (14:03):
right. Are you doing Are you doing a podcast and boy
with the work? I said, Look, Ithink it should be the Billy
Paul podcast. Yeah. You got me.
That's why I think I want totake a global immediately. So we
could all make a few dollars
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (14:29):
in Oregon, I'm gonna come to Oregon, I'm gonna
spend, I'm going to spend fourdays four or five days in
Oregon. I'm going to go out toOregon, and I know that you're
going to set this whole thingup. I don't need nobody to do
that. But you radio, TV, all ofthat. I'm gonna put all that in
your hands. So when I come toyou gonna be my house. That's
(14:51):
for five days and you're gonnatake me to the city, every city
I need to go to you're going totake me to those cities.
Billy Moore (15:01):
Hold on, hold on, hold on our listeners need to
realize they're probably hearingto the you know, they've heard
about Don King and heard aboutdot Bob Arum and all that kind
of stuff. But right now they'relistening to two of probably the
(15:22):
greatest promoters of all time.
Dr. Madi
Paul Brown (15:27):
you know me, I will put myself first commodity if I
don't, it might pull my coattailhe gonna put himself first. But
I think I think I'm a little Igot a little add on but the only
thing I've always admired aboutwhen, when Muhammad and Monty
were overseas, the stories thatcame back that I'll take to my
(15:49):
grave that they would tell usabout different things that the
king would talk about. And thoseremarkable those were a
remarkable story. But one thingfor sure. As soon as Mahdi
stepped off that plane from theMiddle East, in New York City on
his way back to LA he wouldalways call me and check on us
(16:10):
and see how he was doing hisfavorite word. His favorite word
was you know your money andstuff
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (16:22):
but I say you know your money passion right
you know your recent money butI'm not gonna hold that against
you but do not take my kindnessfor weakness. And don't you
misuse me because
Paul Brown (16:46):
I would get butterflies. I'll get
butterflies. You got it all.
Here we go. This is it. And itwas so crazy. One time. I said
we got to figure this out. SoBilly, Billy, since he was in
San Diego, he runs he runs overto owl and tell Lau Oh, I was
traveling with you guys at thattime he tells out say look out
(17:07):
Paul needs some money to give toget money out Billy put put it
in my name and put it in histhing. And our game was out gave
us the money. I never seen themoney I don't know what Billy
was eating traveling. Oh. Ohwould always call me and say man
(17:30):
when you don't pay me that moneyback. I've never seen the money
before you took care of mine.
And to this day I said God Godrest out so he was a great great
man photographer guy to ban Ithink what he owns some all
photography shops and sending
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (17:57):
cameras and stuff. Yeah. Down to
Billy Moore (18:07):
Philly, so we Yeah.
bailed us out a few times. Yeah.
Yeah, it was. Good, man. He
Paul Brown (18:24):
it was it was so tough back in those early 80s.
Man I before that, I raisedabout a million dollars for the
Greg page fight. And TimWeatherspoon with Don King
important, but the struggles Itwasn't even the money it was the
struggles of life man that youwent through. I mean, there
would be times really with me$20 At first first interstate
(18:48):
bank and he was send that to me,man and I would wait for days
for that check to get there. Canwe only have real mail back
then? I mean, I mean yet WesternUnion But Billy would make sure
that we'll get something to eatit then Dale's and Amari, this
this thing when you guys camethere, you always stayed in
there. But my bill got to about25,000 And the man says, Well,
(19:13):
you just keep staying here untilyou pay that pay that bill. So I
was living free but I owed them2525 grand
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (19:24):
to talk to me let me come on right
with the guy trying to keep Iwas trying to keep me I wanted
to relationship I wanted cuz hewas the only guy with this mo at
(19:48):
that time. You're the smartestluckier I got to give these guys
that opportunity. I keep tellingme they don't have all the
money. So fill in the blanks.
I'm putting up the money myself.
And I'm telling I'm giving upEverybody's building yet. Now he
thinking everything's fine. Thenhe looked at me, he said, he
said, they got no money, youalready know that. He said, You
(20:13):
know this. I said, I'm trying toI'm trying to help him out. He
said, Well, you just tell me,Maddie, do you don't have to
give me that we can do the nextone with the teacher, we'll do
the next one that has a hairfracture, we just discounted
altogether. That's no, we can'tdiscount it. Because I don't
want to take our candidates towitness it, without them to put
the work in it. So if they cancome up with the money, good if
(20:35):
they can't write it off, andthat's what we're doing.
Paul Brown (20:42):
I remember giving him some money just in his hand.
And he says, Take me to WesternUnion. So I took him to Western
Union. And he said, friendsmoney all over the place. You
know, he just that money wasn'tfor him. And he, I took
communion. And he sent money todifferent people. You know,
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (21:05):
anytime he had cash like that he always go to
Western Union send money acrossthe country to people, you know,
now seeing 2000 miles here, andhe just didn't he would do that
just about on air and promotion.
He would just send money out topeople.
Billy Moore (21:23):
That that, Paul, that we could talk about Ali and
Archie Moore. All day long. Yes,sir. All day long. But now one
of the things that that I kindof want to wanted to share the
humanitarian aspect of Dr. Modiand Muhammad Ali and things of
(21:45):
that nature that's in this book.
The hostage situation? Yeah.
That. Yes. I would like for youto share a little bit about that
hostage situations. Withoutgoing. What was that over the
Beirut?
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (22:06):
We was we went we went to Beirut, there was
seven Americans being heldhostage, right. They were and
the terrorists had sent a tapeto the, to the State Department
indicated and in 30 days,they're going to execute, to
sell and if they don't changetheir foreign policy in that
region. Now, you know, the USgovernment cannot change a
(22:29):
foreign policy and any reason in30 days. But they were stood
terrorists were serious. Theywanted to be able to execute.
And one of the gentlemen wasBenjamin were moving to the
minister, actually an importantnumber he was following in
California. He was writing inSan Diego, and 30 minutes from
(22:52):
my office. And so we they askedus to come back to Washington,
DC. And we went back to theNiagara gravlin. President
Reagan, they just been nominatedfor president. And I didn't know
at the time that we would spendin limousine. We was firing
during President caravan withPresident Reagan, because we
(23:16):
assigned him to different eventswhere he would go in and speak
for 1520 minutes and he'd go tothe next event. So we were
starting and we stopped at theHilton Hotel and they said,
Well, you're going to sit thesea company, you know, meet the
president. Here. He wants totalk to you. So we went
backstage and President Reaganwas speaking to the crowd. And
we was backstage and his, hisassistant. When he finished his
(23:39):
assistant leaned over. He leanedover he told her that there was
Muhammad Ali was backstage whenhe said she said Muhammad Ali,
his eyes just lit up. And thenhe saw Ali. He was I mean like a
kid in a candy store. He wasjust glad to see how they have
given all these together. Theseare these types of shabby start
shadowboxing. And he wasintroduced everybody and he
(24:02):
said, I'm gonna thank y'all forbehalf of the American people,
but a mission that y'all havedecided to take on. And I didn't
know that about the mission onlyJabir and Harish via outies
attorney Domitian. And I said, Ididn't say anything I didn't ask
they said yes, sir. Prepare.
Thank you as it's okay. I said,we whenever we can do this, we
(24:23):
open we are available. Now. Wegot in a car accident. I told
Jabra. So what did it whatmission are you talking about?
He said, Well, they want us togo to Bali to go to Beirut.
They're going to execute sevenAmericans being here. I should
ask where are you going? Ireally don't want to go to
Beirut. I don't want to getinvolved with the CIA has a
(24:44):
browser just back out of this.
Do y'all go? I said I just stayin house. I said I don't I don't
get in bottom and get involvedand you got all these these sub
personality, these hiddenagendas in thing that's it. So
yeah, I'll do it, I stay athome, because I really don't
want to get involved. And hesaid, You should at least come
(25:06):
to the meeting and see what seewhat they have to say. I
certainly I don't care what theyhave to say I don't want to go.
I don't want to participateanything but just see, I just
want to stay away from NASA. Ijust want to keep my hands
clean. And so the next day wewent, and we went to we, we met
with a sticker for about 24people, State Department of
(25:28):
people in the middle. This wasin the middle eastern fairs. And
they said, Vice President Bushis going to be attending a
meeting, he'll be here in fourminutes. And exactly four
minutes, he walked in the door.
And of course, when he sawMuhammad Ali, he was glad to see
it again. Like the kid in thecandy store. He was a clown. And
I mean, really happy to see Ali.
And Ali was, you know, Ali, hewas doing praying with him. And
(25:52):
we sit down, at least we starttalking. And then they indicated
that they wanted to us to gooverseas. And they wanted us to
go to Beirut, to stop theexecution and bring him home. He
said, If you can't bring himhome, and he stopped execution,
as the speaker, he said, we'regoing to do your briefing out,
and eventually for people aroundthe conference table. And he
(26:16):
started speaking that he hadsuggested that we go to Mecca as
a gimmick. And he go from Meccato Toronto to speak to I told me
about how surgeons in Beirut, Iraised my hand. And I told the
he said the guy told me he saidyou have to question this after
I've taken to speak? And theanswer is no, I'm not raising my
hand for you. I'll give you myhands Ali. Ali, as someone Ali,
(26:40):
I'm raising my hand so it canrecognize that because at this
point you you've made a bigmistake. I see you dig in a hole
that you can get out of as Iwant you to stop digging now. So
we can straighten you out. So wecan help you get out of the hole
that you did. I see. And inpolicy as President,
(27:03):
Vice President Bush will beokay. He said yes, let it speak.
And I said Look here, first ofall, you have to go to Mecca as
a gimmick, this is the problemthat you have. This is a
religious, this is a this is areligious right, he has it this
time, no characters, and youtalk to us, you tell something
constitutes a certain hold itand you treat it like it's some
(27:24):
type of toy, as we don't need togo to a Mecca as no gimmick.
First of all, and we're notgoing to do that. I said, if we
want to talk to how to read, wejust go to our outdoor media in
the name of God. We asked ourtold me to give us the hostage.
We'll take it off his hand wesee we asked him in God's name.
And based on that, give give usTacitus as Yes, it's just as
(27:46):
simple. If you understood thesalam you know how to deal with
the successor. But that's theproblem. You don't understand
the Muslim. And you end up yourefer to your foreign policy is
prehistoric. I said it'sineffective. And this is why you
had a problem that you have now.
Now. I said we're not goingcool. They're waving the
American flag to great Americanswhen you overthrew a democratic
government in Iran. And 94 to 90You stole the show. Do did that
(28:10):
this is the worst dictator inthe last 1000 years you'd stolen
mankind for 35 years. He ranthis country badly and he got
tattered and they kicked himout. And now you want to go
there to my great Americans. Isaid no. Are you do that they
don't kidnap you? I said so.
We're not gonna go there. We'regonna go there. If you go. We
(28:31):
will tell so many Americansdegree shaytaan your
demonstrators discriminateagainst black people you're
discriminated against theMuslim. American people are
something different. Thegovernment and people. American
people are good people. Theyhave no idea that the CIA Oh
through a democratic governmentand installed this dictator,
they don't know that. I sothat's what we will tell
(28:54):
Khomeini and and in Frankfurtand push to Texas guy, his name
was Mike something I can't takea class name but he was he was
over to Toronto MC at the time,he was now the ambassador of
Tunisia, Morocco. Yes. He said,Mike, what do you think about
what Maddie said? He said, Well,one thing for sure. Oh, man,
he's gonna lag muddy. So there'sbushes? I agree. Well, you're in
(29:16):
Rome. You do as the Romans do.
He said mighty, mighty, mightybe only two hands. We competed
out for support. And he got up.
Now, I'm saying that. I'm sayingall this about American
dictators. And I'm saying thisbecause I want to let them know.
I don't want to go. So I know.
They can say no, definitely. ButVice President Bush put me in
charge. There we go. They toldme to lead the delegation over
(29:38):
there. Now. That's how we gotin. That's how we got involved
because we went over there. Andwe successfully negotiated the
release. We start execution. Webrought him home. And we didn't
we weren't ever no briefing. Andthe people from the CIA didn't
like the idea of bifen Bush Thedoor isn't there or need to be
(30:01):
pleased. I said I don't need tobe bruised about my religion.
That's what are you talkingabout? So this is a religious
day, you can how you going tobrief us on the song. I said you
can't do that. That's theproblem. And he told us to go we
went there without that bringsme to get briefed and we went
debrief and the seat of the CIAagent and her trio was there and
(30:24):
all the time they was trying toprove that food to me you know,
food for rice pretty much to bemade a mistake by letting me go
without being briefed to debriefand that's how that's how I'm
going to terminal what wastaking place. So what happened
in spite of all opposition, westill successfully negotiated it
stop the execution. That'sawesome story. All that is in
the book. You can see allopposition that we had the bombs
(30:51):
going off in Beirut, we haven'tdone an actual rally. This is
not no Hollywood movie. Theseare real bomb Tali and these
people are waking up in themorning. They want to they want
to die today. They don't want tocome back home they come I know
it can rewarding to knowbaseball the World Series going
to make don't beat people up. Sowe got to realize what to who
(31:16):
we're dealing with over here.
And when we talk to them, we gotto understand to tackle
mentality we're dealing with
Billy Moore (31:24):
know that. You know, that really just look.
This book is fantastic.
Fantastic. And
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (31:34):
you're not? You know, we are you
Billy Moore (31:36):
know, on read Book Paul just told you while ago, I
was sharing sharing with himabout the book. The very
immortal is probably amazing.
It's amazing. A guy that you'retalking about Ronald Reagan, you
don't my dad, worked for RonaldReagan. When Reagan was
governor, Governor ofCalifornia. He worked with him
(31:57):
both terms. When he is presidentof the United States. He said
no, my dad, we're good friends.
Mr. Mays, amazing. To actually,you know, my dad went to Vietnam
during the Vietnam War. Iremember that. He went there and
spoke to the soldiers there. Butto see a guy Ali was one heck of
(32:26):
a human being to be the championfighter that he was two people.
They talk about people's champpeople's champ people's champ.
That guy was a real people'schampion. Absolutely. Real
(32:47):
people's champion. Now, here's aguy, and you're traveling with
he, that's a heck of anexperience. And I think it's so
wonderful to sit here. Paul andI are sitting here talking to
you. We remember the days inIdaho. And Paul, it's time to
start that book. It really is.
But it's amazing. But this man,a civilian. But a civilian that
(33:10):
people love. Yeah. Across theworld and get people released.
People that will surely go intodepth.
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (33:29):
How he was going to execute it. There's no
question about it. I mean,that's,
Paul Brown (33:34):
that's amazing. And, you know,
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (33:37):
I had told I told him that told him one of
the terrorists I told theterrorists that's okay, let's
get some straight. I said, soyou're not you're not. So my
belief is strong. As a navigatordifferent to you, you
differences as to how to knowhow to stand where you can't
find as you don't, if you got aguy in the family in the car in
(33:59):
this room, you he's in a car oron a bus with 15 or 20 other
people, you don't kill everybodyon the bus trying to get to mind
guy, you want to get off thebus, and then you sell your
school ID. That's what theproblem was you you don't want
to go out and kill innocentpeople. You come off the
battlefield, and you go into thecivilian and you want to kill
(34:20):
innocent people that havenothing they're not soldiers.
But you can just be for now andif I told you right now I want
based on you can you know toinnocent people I'm gonna go out
and kill your mother, yourfather, your sister, your
brother, your cousin, all yourrouters, I want to kill them but
for a murder for an actor you'vedone it justice as a now you
(34:42):
just blew up some people lastweek in unison. So why not go
out to your family? So you can'tcomplain? You can't say God
that's that's terrible. That's aterrible thing. For for your for
your family to be interested into the our die, but you're doing
the same thing. That's thedifference between you and I
fight. If I see my enemy, I findmy enemy, but I'm not gonna be
(35:06):
going, I'm not gonna be fightingmy enemy. He's in his house with
his children, I'm gonna blow upthis whole house with his wife
and his children, they'reprobably not going to do that.
Because that's not necessary.
That's the difference between aterrorist and a non terrorist,
but you have to realize thatthings do happen in war. But,
yes, and listen killing innocentpeople. That's not you're not
gonna be in heaven with thosepeople. That's what I was
telling the terrorists. Youthink you're going to heaven
(35:27):
with the people that shouldmurder innocent people? No,
you're not gonna be in the same,you're not gonna be in Paradise
with them. So let's get thatstraight right now. Where are
you going? I'm gonna wait,you're not gonna be in heaven.
Not with the people that you didmurdered.
Paul Brown (35:42):
I have to just stay.
I have the article because thatwas a time that you guys were
coming to Boise, Idaho. And theheadlines read and I stayed in
my room. All the forsake Boisefor Iowa total honey, I still
have that article today. And herfam richer and richer hershfield
(36:03):
speaking and they wereinterviewing her Spiel at the
time as well, but I I have theheadlines in Boise, Idaho, to
this day, that Ollie forsakesBoise for our toe honey and
stuff and then the pitcher withhim and Herbert as well. You
know, travel traveling overthere meeting meet with, you
(36:27):
know, the the the Middle Eastleaders and things of that
nature, man, but the historybody is It is breathtaking. You
know, maybe because you as acivilian travel those
territories with Ali, and Iremember at one time that me and
Billy, were going over toLondon, you guys are going over
(36:49):
to London, and we ended upgetting on the same plane. And
he made you get out of your seatso I could sit out. And he said
I want to tell you something, Iwant to show you something. So
we're we're we're we're flying.
He says you see all those lightsdown there? I see. Yeah. And he
(37:10):
says they there's there's not adoor that I can go into. Or
portion. I can't walk on tothere all those people where
those lights are on that welooking down on. They all know
who I am the greatest of alltime, Muhammad Ali. But it was
the things that he said. And Iremember I just got out of
(37:31):
mortuary school one time. And heasked me we're sitting at a
hotel at at the Red Lions, Lloydcenter important org. Are you
remember? Yeah, he looked overto me. He looked over to me and
he says, Are you scared? Are youscared to death? And I just get
down school, you know, three orfour years prior? And I said
(37:53):
somewhat, and he says why? Hesays you practice it every
night. And ever since he saidthat that day, I never forgot
what he said that statement. Hesaid you practice it every night
when you go to sleep. And that'sup in the hole. That's something
to hold on to. Because you doyou don't know if you don't wake
up in the in the land of theliving or not. When you close
(38:16):
your eyes at night. But it's soit's so true. You do practice
it. You just got to believe andhope that you got the faith and
your soul and your heart isright. If they don't open up on
the ground of Earth, because boywhen the when you enter into the
kingdom, every every morning,how at the end of the day and
(38:43):
stuff but I'm just grateful manthat we've had the opportunity
to conversate and and talk withBilly and yourself Dr. Marty and
how God has tremendouslycontinued to bless our lives and
to remain steadfast and, andwalk with faith. Man, that's the
(39:04):
deal. We got to do some greatthings still. If the good Lord
says the same and continue tomove on, and I tell you man,
there's just so much moreopportunity. I know Billy's
doing some some great things onsome developments down in San
Diego and I understand you'reback I'm gonna have to get your
old school maybe at San DiegoState re Leary when you come to
(39:26):
town so we can get together getre Leary to buy get re leery of
the bias bias luck.
Billy Moore (39:33):
Yeah, yeah. And
Paul Brown (39:38):
I haven't talked to him this this probably this last
year but we say we stay intouch. He's always on me. That I
owe him to
Billy Moore (39:49):
let me hear let me you know it's we're talking
about some great things but youknow, while I have both of you
here, ABC use foundation It's anorganization that my dad started
over. The dad started over, over63 years ago. Our kids are in
(40:09):
trouble. They're in trouble. Andit's going to take people like
us. Coming together. Black, red,white, yellow, and brown EGBDF
every good buddy does fine.
That's if we all work together.
Yes. And so um there's somepeople here to see us at ABC
(40:36):
from Mrs. Jackson, Mississippiright now, a place where we will
be opening up an ABC there inthe near future. Where we teach
our youngsters here at ABC, howto step up in life with your
best foot forward withoutcowardice, but with courage and
dignity. I'd like as we talkedabout on this show earlier, it
(41:02):
was called in the ring withBilly more anything goes. But
what I'd like you all to do, ispartner with us. In saving our
kids, in saving our kids, it'sokay. And I'm gonna say it just
like this in somebody else, killone of us. We want to beat and
(41:28):
do whatever whatever it is. Wedo too. But it's okay for us to
kill each other. Don't a damnthing happen? Right? Nothing
happen. Our kids are dying allthe way across the country. And
don't nothing happen. So let's,I'd like to see you guys because
(41:50):
we've come to the end of the endof our hour. But I'd like for us
to come together again.
Paul Brown (41:57):
For the kids. Let me finish is a Greatest Gift body
game thing is when he got gamingthe boys and came to the hotel.
And I told you what you got todo. I'm told you that. And then
about five or six credit cardsfell out of his wallet, because
he was mad at me. And I lookedat the credit cards I said I got
(42:21):
them down. So here's weapons butbecause I always do you can come
to me and say, Oh, I got nomoney to give you before
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (42:41):
I got money factor if I got the money. I'm
gonna give it to you. If I canafford to give you but I've got
to manage all I can do but I'mnot gonna say I ain't got no
money. I got money in my pocket.
Paul Brown (42:53):
I want to hear if the money wasn't there, I said
boy, that boy got intoscratchcards. I know he flies
all over the world. You know meand Ollie never without. You
know me. I love you. I can'twait to see you again. I can't
(43:17):
wait to see you.
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (43:20):
I'm coming up here. I'm gonna stay I'm gonna
stay and I'm gonna stay inOregon for three or four days,
brother. Yeah. Now I'm gonnashare I'm gonna share with you
some insight and I'm gonna showyou how you can host me for five
days and ain't gonna cost you nomoney
Billy Moore (43:41):
I don't mind this isn't something now. I don't
have to come up there to standbetween you guys doing?
Paul Brown (43:50):
Oh, yeah. Don't worry about that temper you see
back in the day, we didn't knowwhat that was. But that was
called the greatness of beingbipolar. Because you can go off
at any given time so you betterkeep bumps on balance. Even
(44:10):
though he ain't but what we saywe say it all with love but I
love I love Dr. Mike.
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (44:21):
My favorite saying is I don't mind being
used. Use me I'm totally anasset don't run from it but
don't miss us youbut as always we working
together but it will be inhalingand exhaling for this move. And
this is the problem that we havewith each other. We just don't
(44:46):
know how to work and serve eachother. And we're struggling and
if you can help somebody here,
Paul Brown (44:54):
we got we got we got to be better. But Bill you know
I'm an ABC guy for everybody.
Like you said, we got to bepolitically correct. And I'm
always been a supporter of thisPorter for years. And I'm just
glad that we're able to reuniteand do the things that needs to
happen for these for these greatkids of America. And let's not
stop, you know, this is just thestart. And remember, it's not
always how you you finish therace. It's how you start to race
(45:17):
and I know that
Billy Moore (45:24):
that's all agreed that we're gonna all come
together for let's all rememberthat ABC. Anybody can guess?
Anybody right?
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (45:36):
Let me read a book, the book that and Muhammad
Ali, the untold stories in skincolor cannot think or reason can
be you can purchase the book ondigital and Apple digital
version. And now you can go toaffinity international
publishing, that's affinityinternational publishing, and
you can publish the book fromthe website at 26 dollars. And
(45:57):
it's a good read favorite body.
And hopefully, if you really doget some type of enlightenment
from it.
Billy Moore (46:04):
All right. Oh, yes.
You're right. You mentionedsomething about prayer, didn't
you?
Paul Brown (46:11):
Yeah, that's a little prayer. Yes, we close up.
God, we just want to thank youtoday for the meeting and
opportunity for us brothers toworship Dr. Monty and Billy
Moore. We're so grateful for allthe talents and his life giving
precious words and encouragementto the youth with ABC program.
(46:35):
God we want you to continue tolook down on the Dr. Body's
family and and Billy Moore'sfamily and Mr. Brown's family,
because we, we know that you arethe one and only way to do the
things that we need to do inlife. Here and above. In the
grace of God Almighty, we justsay thank you. Thank you. Thank
(46:55):
you, Jesus. Amen.
Billy Moore (46:57):
Hey, Dr. Mahdi now.
I'm about to tell you somethingright now, Paul, within probably
probably another five years,Paul will probably have one of
the biggest if not the biggestmega church in the United
States. And I'm notexaggerating. He's what he's
(47:17):
working on. And he's beenworking on it for a while. So
but
Paul Brown (47:24):
that's the true story.
Billy Moore (47:25):
So we've had an exciting time today with our
guest, I think those of you thatheard this show will I'm sure,
Patrick kind of on your seatthere certain times, especially
when Dr. Mahdi was talking aboutthe Beirut incident about the
(47:46):
hostages. Until next week, do wetalk together with each other
again, God bless you. And thankyou for being in the ring with
Billy more
Anybody can use foundation teaches our youth to
step off into life with theirbest foot forward without
cowardice, but with courage anddignity. ABC was founded by
legendary light heavyweightchampion Archie Moore in 1957.
He had a heart and passion forhelping the youth. He believed
if we went into the business ofprevention, we could save
billions of dollars and millionsof lives. He started ABC to
(01:14):
teach us the basic ABCs of life.
Are you concerned about theworld today? Do you want to help
train our youth to be the changeneeded in the world? Join us in
the fight for equality in thefight for justice in the fight
for our youth. If you would liketo help, go to www dot ABC youth
foundation.org. That'swww.ABCyouthfoundation.org Be
(01:34):
well and be blessed.
Billy Moore (01:40):
Our guest today on the in the ring with Billy
Moore. It's going to be prettyexciting today. We have the
distinguished Paul Brown and theuncomfortable Dr. Muddy with a
book called Muhammad Ali, theuntold story. Those are guests
(02:06):
on interbreeding with BillyMoore where anything goes stay
tuned. Welcome to in the ringwith Billy Moore. Yeah, we're
not we're not in Idaho. Now.
We're not. We were not in Idaho.
Paul Brown (02:22):
We got all the legends that we need baby. Yes.
We were in Oregon by had to pullover. Billy. He called me late
last night. So you got to callit nine o'clock in the morning.
I got meetings and stuff. But hechanged changed the time for us
(02:46):
to get me in there. So I canappreciate that.
Billy Moore (02:49):
Right. In the ring with Billy more anything goes
down.
Paul Brown (02:56):
That's it. You love both of you brothers. And I and
I appreciate that. That generalengineer, you have Mr. Terence
and Terence. And I look forwardto the conversation today that
we have. And it's been a longtime for all of us. You know, I
(03:16):
mean? Yeah, I know. We talked onthe phone. It was good to hear
Marty's voice a couple monthsago. But it's been a long time.
So I'm glad that we're here andable to discuss the world today.
Billy Moore (03:29):
Well, it's so great. Because we go back how
many years?
Paul Brown (03:34):
By 50 By 50 years 5060 years. We know building.
Our first encounter was in 1973in Boise, Idaho when you when
(03:54):
you came in, he was boxing upthere and you had your dad's
robot. And I'll never forget, Inever forget that when you got
the ring up there. And the funnything about it, it was good
enough to hold a town about 1500people. But 5000 people showed
(04:14):
up that night for the fight andthey couldn't they couldn't
squeeze another soul in therebut but Gabi was one heck of
Moeller. Yes, he was. It's justit was just an amazing time and
foundation. You know, last timeI talked to timani A couple
months ago that we were talkingand some memories came up from
(04:35):
the old days in Idaho and Lord,behold, God moves in a
mysterious, mysterious way isI'll send it to you guys later.
Have Mati And Ali's shown up inBoise the first time and and
Muhammad is holding a child atthe airport. So man things
things happen. Definitely Godmoves in mysterious ways.
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (05:00):
You remember?
Yeah, Night
Paul Brown (05:01):
night, the first time it was 1985. And, and I was
talking to you, I was talking toyou negotiate in enricher hertz
field. And I remember her sriaYeah, in Virginia, I believe.
(05:22):
And he, he's you said, Paul, Iknow, I know you struggling a
little bit, you know, understandthis, tell me what it is you
want. And, and my ego would letme do that I will still tap
dancing and thing. And you said,Paul, I'll get the ticket. Just
Just tell me what it is that youneed. And we can take care of
the rest when we get there. And,and lo and behold, you know, you
(05:44):
always get your word, you wouldsit me down in the room, show me
everything, all the expensive,and this is what I'm doing for
you. And I've always beengrateful for that now, but I
still would like to fight youbecause you threatened to throw
me over the bridge, not just butimportant to as soon as soon as
you got into Portland at theHilton Hotel, we went up to this
(06:06):
penthouse suite. And Billy said,y'all be cool, man, y'all just
be cool. And Billy sort ofstayed in the middle of us. It
makes you that was gonna becool. But we just love each
other as brothers and you wantto see me to see you. And I was
happy that you all he always,always believed in what me and
Billy was doing, you know, inthat era, man. So that's, that's
(06:26):
just great foundation and thethings that you've done with
your book and your family. Andthe history of you traveling the
world with Muhammad Ali and inin Archie Moore and in living,
you know, living a life of allahGod wants you to do and stuff.
So I'm very appreciative of youtoday, Mr. Mahdi. And Billy
Billy Moore (06:50):
We give God the glory, thank you for holding on
to a need to come back here andgather and talk with one
another. Go ahead, Doc.
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (07:00):
I said, motto 1985 to come alive in 1985.
They used to model thecomfortable water native fat.
That's all right. And we waswhen I say coming live, we would
want to activate the goal was toactivate Ali in every section
(07:20):
here now parts of the world andhowever we could. And when you
call, the whole thing was we gota call. And we can activate
this. And that's what I wastrying to get you to do. I said,
I know you're trying to put yourpromotion together. And I know
Idaho, I leave never been toIdaho. I said, this is how we
can work it. We're going to comethere, we're going to help you
(07:41):
but one way or the other, wejust have to figure out how
we're going to do it. And yeah,hershfield was telling me
tomorrow, you're not gonna beyou can't be no social worker
with Ali as well. According tomine, to record my religion, I'm
supposed to be a social worker.
I said, religion to me, this isa real life. I'm totally happy
to have I come in contact withas your brother needs some help.
Absolutely. And how he doesn'tmind happening. This is serious
(08:04):
tells us what we rent we pay forour room in heaven. And I'll use
this as an opportunity tofinally put the act of service
in and so we join you in turnout to be okay, Paul, did you
have to be one of them? Not allof them. But you right up there
with Darren Kane and Barbarin inthe restaurant brother in my
eyes because you didn't get muchmore character than all of them.
(08:26):
So I
Paul Brown (08:32):
surely appreciate that. That means a lot to me and
how we've come up and how we wasraised in the old wisdom of
Muhammad Ali and Archie Moore.
What they would sit you down andtalk to you about man it was it
was still today it'sbreathtaking. And every day that
it seems like when we do comeclose to talking. There's
there's something that'sspecial, the movement that still
(08:53):
in your you inherit in yourheart for what you learn from
these gentlemen, throughout yourlife, and even now there's a
marvelous special I've beenwatching day to day two was last
night and Night Out watch theseries of OPB this start of
Muhammad Ali. And and in thatera, of course it was cash play.
(09:17):
But you know, there's stuff Iwas telling Billy this morning
that I've never seen. I forgot.
I knew about more more than fourand all those things. But I even
forgot that that Ali Ali andArchie fought. But were so great
friends throughout the years.
They never talked about that ina mean when they were when we
(09:41):
were working together. So thatwas that was a time of
foundation then and then Archietrained him as well. That's
right. That that was that wassomething that came back in
history but seems like thisyear. I'm seeing stuff on Both
both gentlemen that I never seenbefore on tape, or radio. And
(10:03):
I've even shared it with somehistorians in England that their
parents worked with ollie overthere when all he would come
over there to London. And a lotof different tapes that they
never seen. But this last night,the series on OPV a, I've never
witnessed some of the thingsthat I've been witness last
(10:27):
couple of days. And it's, it's,it's amazing. And it goes back
now. Hey, Marty, I remember, Iremember getting jumped on by,
by by Herbert Muhammad, you knowme and send their money. And
Herbert was a good looking manwhen he was when he was young.
But I remember those, I rememberthose discussions with with
(10:49):
Herbert and yourself. And, andBilly back in the day, and I
said, Man, that's, that's somelegendary stuff. And I never
seen any lies. At 61 years old.
Now, the history I've beenseeing this last couple of days,
you know, me, but I know onething that God is real, and that
(11:12):
the opportunities and the timesthat Ali was even talked to my
mother, evangelist andmissionary, ew cup, brown, that
they would always exchange tobuy the Bible, and the Koran,
the Torah, and, and, and, andtalk about the faith of God,
because you got to be able toknow if you know, one, you must
(11:35):
know the other at the end of theday, and that's and that's,
that's real talk there. andstuff. So I remember I remember
those days, my brother,
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (11:44):
my brother, I was, it was a blessing to be a
part of color that and, andthat's the whole point of life.
I mean, it's a memories that youcapture, and you live forever on
those memories. And thosememories. All I have is
memories, but Ollie and Archieis the friendship that they had.
(12:04):
And that Audi the respect thatAli had to it more, and he told
me that I laid down thefoundation for his training and
showed him children theimportance of training, and how
to focus in his training and PCgot that NASA manager of the day
he got that from Magic war. Andhe was painful for that. He
(12:25):
always always told me he said itwas because he was in his prime.
He was one of the best fightersin the world. So that respect is
still there. Well, that's sohere we are. Everywhere to book
pop, if you got to book No, I
Paul Brown (12:43):
have not got to hurry. I
Billy Moore (12:51):
don't get the real like y'all.
Paul Brown (13:02):
book is The Best New York bestseller. And we need to
get the book. I know Billy, Iwas surprised Billy read it
before me because he wasbreaking it down a couple months
ago to me, you don't mean but Ineed to get the book and read it
and get you get you out here forsigning a signing session at the
bookstore. And we go wedefinitely got to make that make
(13:22):
that happen. I got anothergentleman I want you to meet is
a great, great man as well, man.
But I mean, I'm looking forwardto reading that book and see how
many times you put my name inthe book. And that's that that's
gonna sell a lot to
Billy Moore (13:37):
you. That's what you got to know what you got to
be careful. Go see Paul, when Itold Paul about the podcast, and
he was telling me well, youknow, you know I get a you know,
man, I get a appearance fee. Isay what? appearance fee
Paul Brown (14:03):
right. Are you doing Are you doing a podcast and boy
with the work? I said, Look, Ithink it should be the Billy
Paul podcast. Yeah. You got me.
That's why I think I want totake a global immediately. So we
could all make a few dollars
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (14:29):
in Oregon, I'm gonna come to Oregon, I'm gonna
spend, I'm going to spend fourdays four or five days in
Oregon. I'm going to go out toOregon, and I know that you're
going to set this whole thingup. I don't need nobody to do
that. But you radio, TV, all ofthat. I'm gonna put all that in
your hands. So when I come toyou gonna be my house. That's
(14:51):
for five days and you're gonnatake me to the city, every city
I need to go to you're going totake me to those cities.
Billy Moore (15:01):
Hold on, hold on, hold on our listeners need to
realize they're probably hearingto the you know, they've heard
about Don King and heard aboutdot Bob Arum and all that kind
of stuff. But right now they'relistening to two of probably the
(15:22):
greatest promoters of all time.
Dr. Madi
Paul Brown (15:27):
you know me, I will put myself first commodity if I
don't, it might pull my coattailhe gonna put himself first. But
I think I think I'm a little Igot a little add on but the only
thing I've always admired aboutwhen, when Muhammad and Monty
were overseas, the stories thatcame back that I'll take to my
(15:49):
grave that they would tell usabout different things that the
king would talk about. And thoseremarkable those were a
remarkable story. But one thingfor sure. As soon as Mahdi
stepped off that plane from theMiddle East, in New York City on
his way back to LA he wouldalways call me and check on us
(16:10):
and see how he was doing hisfavorite word. His favorite word
was you know your money andstuff
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (16:22):
but I say you know your money passion right
you know your recent money butI'm not gonna hold that against
you but do not take my kindnessfor weakness. And don't you
misuse me because
Paul Brown (16:46):
I would get butterflies. I'll get
butterflies. You got it all.
Here we go. This is it. And itwas so crazy. One time. I said
we got to figure this out. SoBilly, Billy, since he was in
San Diego, he runs he runs overto owl and tell Lau Oh, I was
traveling with you guys at thattime he tells out say look out
(17:07):
Paul needs some money to give toget money out Billy put put it
in my name and put it in histhing. And our game was out gave
us the money. I never seen themoney I don't know what Billy
was eating traveling. Oh. Ohwould always call me and say man
(17:30):
when you don't pay me that moneyback. I've never seen the money
before you took care of mine.
And to this day I said God Godrest out so he was a great great
man photographer guy to ban Ithink what he owns some all
photography shops and sending
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (17:57):
cameras and stuff. Yeah. Down to
Billy Moore (18:07):
Philly, so we Yeah.
bailed us out a few times. Yeah.
Yeah, it was. Good, man. He
Paul Brown (18:24):
it was it was so tough back in those early 80s.
Man I before that, I raisedabout a million dollars for the
Greg page fight. And TimWeatherspoon with Don King
important, but the struggles Itwasn't even the money it was the
struggles of life man that youwent through. I mean, there
would be times really with me$20 At first first interstate
(18:48):
bank and he was send that to me,man and I would wait for days
for that check to get there. Canwe only have real mail back
then? I mean, I mean yet WesternUnion But Billy would make sure
that we'll get something to eatit then Dale's and Amari, this
this thing when you guys camethere, you always stayed in
there. But my bill got to about25,000 And the man says, Well,
(19:13):
you just keep staying here untilyou pay that pay that bill. So I
was living free but I owed them2525 grand
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (19:24):
to talk to me let me come on right
with the guy trying to keep Iwas trying to keep me I wanted
to relationship I wanted cuz hewas the only guy with this mo at
(19:48):
that time. You're the smartestluckier I got to give these guys
that opportunity. I keep tellingme they don't have all the
money. So fill in the blanks.
I'm putting up the money myself.
And I'm telling I'm giving upEverybody's building yet. Now he
thinking everything's fine. Thenhe looked at me, he said, he
said, they got no money, youalready know that. He said, You
(20:13):
know this. I said, I'm trying toI'm trying to help him out. He
said, Well, you just tell me,Maddie, do you don't have to
give me that we can do the nextone with the teacher, we'll do
the next one that has a hairfracture, we just discounted
altogether. That's no, we can'tdiscount it. Because I don't
want to take our candidates towitness it, without them to put
the work in it. So if they cancome up with the money, good if
(20:35):
they can't write it off, andthat's what we're doing.
Paul Brown (20:42):
I remember giving him some money just in his hand.
And he says, Take me to WesternUnion. So I took him to Western
Union. And he said, friendsmoney all over the place. You
know, he just that money wasn'tfor him. And he, I took
communion. And he sent money todifferent people. You know,
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (21:05):
anytime he had cash like that he always go to
Western Union send money acrossthe country to people, you know,
now seeing 2000 miles here, andhe just didn't he would do that
just about on air and promotion.
He would just send money out topeople.
Billy Moore (21:23):
That that, Paul, that we could talk about Ali and
Archie Moore. All day long. Yes,sir. All day long. But now one
of the things that that I kindof want to wanted to share the
humanitarian aspect of Dr. Modiand Muhammad Ali and things of
(21:45):
that nature that's in this book.
The hostage situation? Yeah.
That. Yes. I would like for youto share a little bit about that
hostage situations. Withoutgoing. What was that over the
Beirut?
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (22:06):
We was we went we went to Beirut, there was
seven Americans being heldhostage, right. They were and
the terrorists had sent a tapeto the, to the State Department
indicated and in 30 days,they're going to execute, to
sell and if they don't changetheir foreign policy in that
region. Now, you know, the USgovernment cannot change a
(22:29):
foreign policy and any reason in30 days. But they were stood
terrorists were serious. Theywanted to be able to execute.
And one of the gentlemen wasBenjamin were moving to the
minister, actually an importantnumber he was following in
California. He was writing inSan Diego, and 30 minutes from
(22:52):
my office. And so we they askedus to come back to Washington,
DC. And we went back to theNiagara gravlin. President
Reagan, they just been nominatedfor president. And I didn't know
at the time that we would spendin limousine. We was firing
during President caravan withPresident Reagan, because we
(23:16):
assigned him to different eventswhere he would go in and speak
for 1520 minutes and he'd go tothe next event. So we were
starting and we stopped at theHilton Hotel and they said,
Well, you're going to sit thesea company, you know, meet the
president. Here. He wants totalk to you. So we went
backstage and President Reaganwas speaking to the crowd. And
we was backstage and his, hisassistant. When he finished his
(23:39):
assistant leaned over. He leanedover he told her that there was
Muhammad Ali was backstage whenhe said she said Muhammad Ali,
his eyes just lit up. And thenhe saw Ali. He was I mean like a
kid in a candy store. He wasjust glad to see how they have
given all these together. Theseare these types of shabby start
shadowboxing. And he wasintroduced everybody and he
(24:02):
said, I'm gonna thank y'all forbehalf of the American people,
but a mission that y'all havedecided to take on. And I didn't
know that about the mission onlyJabir and Harish via outies
attorney Domitian. And I said, Ididn't say anything I didn't ask
they said yes, sir. Prepare.
Thank you as it's okay. I said,we whenever we can do this, we
(24:23):
open we are available. Now. Wegot in a car accident. I told
Jabra. So what did it whatmission are you talking about?
He said, Well, they want us togo to Bali to go to Beirut.
They're going to execute sevenAmericans being here. I should
ask where are you going? Ireally don't want to go to
Beirut. I don't want to getinvolved with the CIA has a
(24:44):
browser just back out of this.
Do y'all go? I said I just stayin house. I said I don't I don't
get in bottom and get involvedand you got all these these sub
personality, these hiddenagendas in thing that's it. So
yeah, I'll do it, I stay athome, because I really don't
want to get involved. And hesaid, You should at least come
(25:06):
to the meeting and see what seewhat they have to say. I
certainly I don't care what theyhave to say I don't want to go.
I don't want to participateanything but just see, I just
want to stay away from NASA. Ijust want to keep my hands
clean. And so the next day wewent, and we went to we, we met
with a sticker for about 24people, State Department of
(25:28):
people in the middle. This wasin the middle eastern fairs. And
they said, Vice President Bushis going to be attending a
meeting, he'll be here in fourminutes. And exactly four
minutes, he walked in the door.
And of course, when he sawMuhammad Ali, he was glad to see
it again. Like the kid in thecandy store. He was a clown. And
I mean, really happy to see Ali.
And Ali was, you know, Ali, hewas doing praying with him. And
(25:52):
we sit down, at least we starttalking. And then they indicated
that they wanted to us to gooverseas. And they wanted us to
go to Beirut, to stop theexecution and bring him home. He
said, If you can't bring himhome, and he stopped execution,
as the speaker, he said, we'regoing to do your briefing out,
and eventually for people aroundthe conference table. And he
(26:16):
started speaking that he hadsuggested that we go to Mecca as
a gimmick. And he go from Meccato Toronto to speak to I told me
about how surgeons in Beirut, Iraised my hand. And I told the
he said the guy told me he saidyou have to question this after
I've taken to speak? And theanswer is no, I'm not raising my
hand for you. I'll give you myhands Ali. Ali, as someone Ali,
(26:40):
I'm raising my hand so it canrecognize that because at this
point you you've made a bigmistake. I see you dig in a hole
that you can get out of as Iwant you to stop digging now. So
we can straighten you out. So wecan help you get out of the hole
that you did. I see. And inpolicy as President,
(27:03):
Vice President Bush will beokay. He said yes, let it speak.
And I said Look here, first ofall, you have to go to Mecca as
a gimmick, this is the problemthat you have. This is a
religious, this is a this is areligious right, he has it this
time, no characters, and youtalk to us, you tell something
constitutes a certain hold itand you treat it like it's some
(27:24):
type of toy, as we don't need togo to a Mecca as no gimmick.
First of all, and we're notgoing to do that. I said, if we
want to talk to how to read, wejust go to our outdoor media in
the name of God. We asked ourtold me to give us the hostage.
We'll take it off his hand wesee we asked him in God's name.
And based on that, give give usTacitus as Yes, it's just as
(27:46):
simple. If you understood thesalam you know how to deal with
the successor. But that's theproblem. You don't understand
the Muslim. And you end up yourefer to your foreign policy is
prehistoric. I said it'sineffective. And this is why you
had a problem that you have now.
Now. I said we're not goingcool. They're waving the
American flag to great Americanswhen you overthrew a democratic
government in Iran. And 94 to 90You stole the show. Do did that
(28:10):
this is the worst dictator inthe last 1000 years you'd stolen
mankind for 35 years. He ranthis country badly and he got
tattered and they kicked himout. And now you want to go
there to my great Americans. Isaid no. Are you do that they
don't kidnap you? I said so.
We're not gonna go there. We'regonna go there. If you go. We
(28:31):
will tell so many Americansdegree shaytaan your
demonstrators discriminateagainst black people you're
discriminated against theMuslim. American people are
something different. Thegovernment and people. American
people are good people. Theyhave no idea that the CIA Oh
through a democratic governmentand installed this dictator,
they don't know that. I sothat's what we will tell
(28:54):
Khomeini and and in Frankfurtand push to Texas guy, his name
was Mike something I can't takea class name but he was he was
over to Toronto MC at the time,he was now the ambassador of
Tunisia, Morocco. Yes. He said,Mike, what do you think about
what Maddie said? He said, Well,one thing for sure. Oh, man,
he's gonna lag muddy. So there'sbushes? I agree. Well, you're in
(29:16):
Rome. You do as the Romans do.
He said mighty, mighty, mightybe only two hands. We competed
out for support. And he got up.
Now, I'm saying that. I'm sayingall this about American
dictators. And I'm saying thisbecause I want to let them know.
I don't want to go. So I know.
They can say no, definitely. ButVice President Bush put me in
charge. There we go. They toldme to lead the delegation over
(29:38):
there. Now. That's how we gotin. That's how we got involved
because we went over there. Andwe successfully negotiated the
release. We start execution. Webrought him home. And we didn't
we weren't ever no briefing. Andthe people from the CIA didn't
like the idea of bifen Bush Thedoor isn't there or need to be
(30:01):
pleased. I said I don't need tobe bruised about my religion.
That's what are you talkingabout? So this is a religious
day, you can how you going tobrief us on the song. I said you
can't do that. That's theproblem. And he told us to go we
went there without that bringsme to get briefed and we went
debrief and the seat of the CIAagent and her trio was there and
(30:24):
all the time they was trying toprove that food to me you know,
food for rice pretty much to bemade a mistake by letting me go
without being briefed to debriefand that's how that's how I'm
going to terminal what wastaking place. So what happened
in spite of all opposition, westill successfully negotiated it
stop the execution. That'sawesome story. All that is in
the book. You can see allopposition that we had the bombs
(30:51):
going off in Beirut, we haven'tdone an actual rally. This is
not no Hollywood movie. Theseare real bomb Tali and these
people are waking up in themorning. They want to they want
to die today. They don't want tocome back home they come I know
it can rewarding to knowbaseball the World Series going
to make don't beat people up. Sowe got to realize what to who
(31:16):
we're dealing with over here.
And when we talk to them, we gotto understand to tackle
mentality we're dealing with
Billy Moore (31:24):
know that. You know, that really just look.
This book is fantastic.
Fantastic. And
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (31:34):
you're not? You know, we are you
Billy Moore (31:36):
know, on read Book Paul just told you while ago, I
was sharing sharing with himabout the book. The very
immortal is probably amazing.
It's amazing. A guy that you'retalking about Ronald Reagan, you
don't my dad, worked for RonaldReagan. When Reagan was
governor, Governor ofCalifornia. He worked with him
(31:57):
both terms. When he is presidentof the United States. He said
no, my dad, we're good friends.
Mr. Mays, amazing. To actually,you know, my dad went to Vietnam
during the Vietnam War. Iremember that. He went there and
spoke to the soldiers there. Butto see a guy Ali was one heck of
(32:26):
a human being to be the championfighter that he was two people.
They talk about people's champpeople's champ people's champ.
That guy was a real people'schampion. Absolutely. Real
(32:47):
people's champion. Now, here's aguy, and you're traveling with
he, that's a heck of anexperience. And I think it's so
wonderful to sit here. Paul andI are sitting here talking to
you. We remember the days inIdaho. And Paul, it's time to
start that book. It really is.
But it's amazing. But this man,a civilian. But a civilian that
(33:10):
people love. Yeah. Across theworld and get people released.
People that will surely go intodepth.
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (33:29):
How he was going to execute it. There's no
question about it. I mean,that's,
Paul Brown (33:34):
that's amazing. And, you know,
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (33:37):
I had told I told him that told him one of
the terrorists I told theterrorists that's okay, let's
get some straight. I said, soyou're not you're not. So my
belief is strong. As a navigatordifferent to you, you
differences as to how to knowhow to stand where you can't
find as you don't, if you got aguy in the family in the car in
(33:59):
this room, you he's in a car oron a bus with 15 or 20 other
people, you don't kill everybodyon the bus trying to get to mind
guy, you want to get off thebus, and then you sell your
school ID. That's what theproblem was you you don't want
to go out and kill innocentpeople. You come off the
battlefield, and you go into thecivilian and you want to kill
(34:20):
innocent people that havenothing they're not soldiers.
But you can just be for now andif I told you right now I want
based on you can you know toinnocent people I'm gonna go out
and kill your mother, yourfather, your sister, your
brother, your cousin, all yourrouters, I want to kill them but
for a murder for an actor you'vedone it justice as a now you
(34:42):
just blew up some people lastweek in unison. So why not go
out to your family? So you can'tcomplain? You can't say God
that's that's terrible. That's aterrible thing. For for your for
your family to be interested into the our die, but you're doing
the same thing. That's thedifference between you and I
fight. If I see my enemy, I findmy enemy, but I'm not gonna be
(35:06):
going, I'm not gonna be fightingmy enemy. He's in his house with
his children, I'm gonna blow upthis whole house with his wife
and his children, they'reprobably not going to do that.
Because that's not necessary.
That's the difference between aterrorist and a non terrorist,
but you have to realize thatthings do happen in war. But,
yes, and listen killing innocentpeople. That's not you're not
gonna be in heaven with thosepeople. That's what I was
telling the terrorists. Youthink you're going to heaven
(35:27):
with the people that shouldmurder innocent people? No,
you're not gonna be in the same,you're not gonna be in Paradise
with them. So let's get thatstraight right now. Where are
you going? I'm gonna wait,you're not gonna be in heaven.
Not with the people that you didmurdered.
Paul Brown (35:42):
I have to just stay.
I have the article because thatwas a time that you guys were
coming to Boise, Idaho. And theheadlines read and I stayed in
my room. All the forsake Boisefor Iowa total honey, I still
have that article today. And herfam richer and richer hershfield
(36:03):
speaking and they wereinterviewing her Spiel at the
time as well, but I I have theheadlines in Boise, Idaho, to
this day, that Ollie forsakesBoise for our toe honey and
stuff and then the pitcher withhim and Herbert as well. You
know, travel traveling overthere meeting meet with, you
(36:27):
know, the the the Middle Eastleaders and things of that
nature, man, but the historybody is It is breathtaking. You
know, maybe because you as acivilian travel those
territories with Ali, and Iremember at one time that me and
Billy, were going over toLondon, you guys are going over
(36:49):
to London, and we ended upgetting on the same plane. And
he made you get out of your seatso I could sit out. And he said
I want to tell you something, Iwant to show you something. So
we're we're we're we're flying.
He says you see all those lightsdown there? I see. Yeah. And he
(37:10):
says they there's there's not adoor that I can go into. Or
portion. I can't walk on tothere all those people where
those lights are on that welooking down on. They all know
who I am the greatest of alltime, Muhammad Ali. But it was
the things that he said. And Iremember I just got out of
(37:31):
mortuary school one time. And heasked me we're sitting at a
hotel at at the Red Lions, Lloydcenter important org. Are you
remember? Yeah, he looked overto me. He looked over to me and
he says, Are you scared? Are youscared to death? And I just get
down school, you know, three orfour years prior? And I said
(37:53):
somewhat, and he says why? Hesays you practice it every
night. And ever since he saidthat that day, I never forgot
what he said that statement. Hesaid you practice it every night
when you go to sleep. And that'sup in the hole. That's something
to hold on to. Because you doyou don't know if you don't wake
up in the in the land of theliving or not. When you close
(38:16):
your eyes at night. But it's soit's so true. You do practice
it. You just got to believe andhope that you got the faith and
your soul and your heart isright. If they don't open up on
the ground of Earth, because boywhen the when you enter into the
kingdom, every every morning,how at the end of the day and
(38:43):
stuff but I'm just grateful manthat we've had the opportunity
to conversate and and talk withBilly and yourself Dr. Marty and
how God has tremendouslycontinued to bless our lives and
to remain steadfast and, andwalk with faith. Man, that's the
(39:04):
deal. We got to do some greatthings still. If the good Lord
says the same and continue tomove on, and I tell you man,
there's just so much moreopportunity. I know Billy's
doing some some great things onsome developments down in San
Diego and I understand you'reback I'm gonna have to get your
old school maybe at San DiegoState re Leary when you come to
(39:26):
town so we can get together getre Leary to buy get re leery of
the bias bias luck.
Billy Moore (39:33):
Yeah, yeah. And
Paul Brown (39:38):
I haven't talked to him this this probably this last
year but we say we stay intouch. He's always on me. That I
owe him to
Billy Moore (39:49):
let me hear let me you know it's we're talking
about some great things but youknow, while I have both of you
here, ABC use foundation It's anorganization that my dad started
over. The dad started over, over63 years ago. Our kids are in
(40:09):
trouble. They're in trouble. Andit's going to take people like
us. Coming together. Black, red,white, yellow, and brown EGBDF
every good buddy does fine.
That's if we all work together.
Yes. And so um there's somepeople here to see us at ABC
(40:36):
from Mrs. Jackson, Mississippiright now, a place where we will
be opening up an ABC there inthe near future. Where we teach
our youngsters here at ABC, howto step up in life with your
best foot forward withoutcowardice, but with courage and
dignity. I'd like as we talkedabout on this show earlier, it
(41:02):
was called in the ring withBilly more anything goes. But
what I'd like you all to do, ispartner with us. In saving our
kids, in saving our kids, it'sokay. And I'm gonna say it just
like this in somebody else, killone of us. We want to beat and
(41:28):
do whatever whatever it is. Wedo too. But it's okay for us to
kill each other. Don't a damnthing happen? Right? Nothing
happen. Our kids are dying allthe way across the country. And
don't nothing happen. So let's,I'd like to see you guys because
(41:50):
we've come to the end of the endof our hour. But I'd like for us
to come together again.
Paul Brown (41:57):
For the kids. Let me finish is a Greatest Gift body
game thing is when he got gamingthe boys and came to the hotel.
And I told you what you got todo. I'm told you that. And then
about five or six credit cardsfell out of his wallet, because
he was mad at me. And I lookedat the credit cards I said I got
(42:21):
them down. So here's weapons butbecause I always do you can come
to me and say, Oh, I got nomoney to give you before
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (42:41):
I got money factor if I got the money. I'm
gonna give it to you. If I canafford to give you but I've got
to manage all I can do but I'mnot gonna say I ain't got no
money. I got money in my pocket.
Paul Brown (42:53):
I want to hear if the money wasn't there, I said
boy, that boy got intoscratchcards. I know he flies
all over the world. You know meand Ollie never without. You
know me. I love you. I can'twait to see you again. I can't
(43:17):
wait to see you.
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (43:20):
I'm coming up here. I'm gonna stay I'm gonna
stay and I'm gonna stay inOregon for three or four days,
brother. Yeah. Now I'm gonnashare I'm gonna share with you
some insight and I'm gonna showyou how you can host me for five
days and ain't gonna cost you nomoney
Billy Moore (43:41):
I don't mind this isn't something now. I don't
have to come up there to standbetween you guys doing?
Paul Brown (43:50):
Oh, yeah. Don't worry about that temper you see
back in the day, we didn't knowwhat that was. But that was
called the greatness of beingbipolar. Because you can go off
at any given time so you betterkeep bumps on balance. Even
(44:10):
though he ain't but what we saywe say it all with love but I
love I love Dr. Mike.
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (44:21):
My favorite saying is I don't mind being
used. Use me I'm totally anasset don't run from it but
don't miss us youbut as always we working
together but it will be inhalingand exhaling for this move. And
this is the problem that we havewith each other. We just don't
(44:46):
know how to work and serve eachother. And we're struggling and
if you can help somebody here,
Paul Brown (44:54):
we got we got we got to be better. But Bill you know
I'm an ABC guy for everybody.
Like you said, we got to bepolitically correct. And I'm
always been a supporter of thisPorter for years. And I'm just
glad that we're able to reuniteand do the things that needs to
happen for these for these greatkids of America. And let's not
stop, you know, this is just thestart. And remember, it's not
always how you you finish therace. It's how you start to race
(45:17):
and I know that
Billy Moore (45:24):
that's all agreed that we're gonna all come
together for let's all rememberthat ABC. Anybody can guess?
Anybody right?
Dr. Abuwi Mahdi (45:36):
Let me read a book, the book that and Muhammad
Ali, the untold stories in skincolor cannot think or reason can
be you can purchase the book ondigital and Apple digital
version. And now you can go toaffinity international
publishing, that's affinityinternational publishing, and
you can publish the book fromthe website at 26 dollars. And
(45:57):
it's a good read favorite body.
And hopefully, if you really doget some type of enlightenment
from it.
Billy Moore (46:04):
All right. Oh, yes.
You're right. You mentionedsomething about prayer, didn't
you?
Paul Brown (46:11):
Yeah, that's a little prayer. Yes, we close up.
God, we just want to thank youtoday for the meeting and
opportunity for us brothers toworship Dr. Monty and Billy
Moore. We're so grateful for allthe talents and his life giving
precious words and encouragementto the youth with ABC program.
(46:35):
God we want you to continue tolook down on the Dr. Body's
family and and Billy Moore'sfamily and Mr. Brown's family,
because we, we know that you arethe one and only way to do the
things that we need to do inlife. Here and above. In the
grace of God Almighty, we justsay thank you. Thank you. Thank
(46:55):
you, Jesus. Amen.
Billy Moore (46:57):
Hey, Dr. Mahdi now.
I'm about to tell you somethingright now, Paul, within probably
probably another five years,Paul will probably have one of
the biggest if not the biggestmega church in the United
States. And I'm notexaggerating. He's what he's
(47:17):
working on. And he's beenworking on it for a while. So
but
Paul Brown (47:24):
that's the true story.
Billy Moore (47:25):
So we've had an exciting time today with our
guest, I think those of you thatheard this show will I'm sure,
Patrick kind of on your seatthere certain times, especially
when Dr. Mahdi was talking aboutthe Beirut incident about the
(47:46):
hostages. Until next week, do wetalk together with each other
again, God bless you. And thankyou for being in the ring with
Billy more
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