#001 - Gabrielle Rogers - In This Universe with Craig Griffin

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
You're in my heart and soul. You turn those dark days into
shimmering gold. I got a true no.
Always. Guiding me home.
You're in my heart and soul, My heart and soul.

(00:37):
My heart is so my heart is. So episode hashtag 001 very
first episode and look at that joint effort see I.
Screwed it though because now you've got 2 slates on going on
different. There you go, teamwork tails the
bat. That's what this industry is all
about. Tails on gryphon woo.

(01:02):
So here we are. Here we are.
Literally the very first episode.
Literally with the one the only.That's all that we know of.
There we are, Rogers. Hello, hello and.
Craig Gryphon. This is the Craig Gryphon
universe very first episode. And can I say most sincerely,

(01:22):
from the absolute very bottom ofmy heart, from what Denis Leary
described as the cockles of my heart in asshole, can I just say
it is absolute true honour and atrue privilege to have you as a
first guest. As I was saying before we got
rolling, you were kind of my like dream guest.

(01:44):
You are one that was like, I'm going to have to get a few
episodes under the belt and thenask you.
And then I was like, you know what, fuck it, let's just go for
it. Let's just get the best on 1st,
aren't? You lucky that I'm easier than
you thought. Oh.
So true. I could have told you that.
I could have told you that. I mean, lots of people could
have told you that, but you had to find out for yourself.
I don't. Listen to the gossip.
I thought it was just gossip. There you.

(02:05):
Go. I sound really interesting in
the gossip. I'm scandalous in the gossip.
So look, yeah, I, I, as I said, I just want this to be a, a
conversation. And it's not, that's what you
want it to be, but that's what Iwant it to be.
How it ends up really nice. You know, consent's important.
Is that what I want? Yeah.
Do I want it to be just a conversation, or am I here for a
fight? Wow.

(02:26):
Look, a fight's good. I mean, hey, if we're gonna.
Go down. Drama the reality TV Rd.
Producers on standby. You know what he said about you
when you were in the bathroom? Exactly.
But we'll have to do some of those shots, you know, like on
the on the American soap is where you like back to Cameron.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or whispering.
I like the whispering. I like whispering behind doors.

(02:47):
Like, like sort of just. He said that he wants to leave
the show and if he's and we needto leave before he leaves, what
do we do? Hi, everybody.
I always used to love doing thaton set and you'd be miked up and
you'd be like, why are they all looking at us?
Yes, it's because they can hear everything that.
You say OK, though I guess the starting place for me is where

(03:11):
we first met. 'Cause it's your universe.
Why it it's and see, that's a good point you've started on the
name implies like it's all aboutme.
It's the Craig Gryphon universe.The opposite is actually true.
It's like the universe is like everything else that's happening
around me. Mm hmm.
So it's like kind of a way of saying everything else out there

(03:32):
that's not me is what the show'sabout.
Nice. It's not so much it's all about
me, 'cause I'm the star. I don't know, but because as the
artist, you're necessarily in. It wow, I have to.
Be you're making judgement calls.
What sort of universe? What sort of universe would get
me in and say sit down and let'shave a chat.
Your universe is unusual. It is.
It's interesting and unusual thing.

(03:53):
It is very much so I'm. Happy.
I'm happy to be in it. Oh.
That's, that's awesome. Oh look, I I really am.
I'm so stated is indeed an honour and a privilege.
To to be able to. I don't know what I did to
deserve that, but I'll take it. Well, that's exactly what we're
going to talk about. Do you realise it is, I don't
know exactly what day, but it's 10 years that we met.

(04:14):
It's our 10 year friend anniversary.
Or what they call online the friend adversary.
Wow. Yeah, I do believe that.
Now was it at the Hub studio or was it a Comic Con or?
It was Comic Con. It was.
Comic. Which comic?
Was it Brisbane or was? It Brisbane, it was 2015.
Wow. I had had a Halloween party that

(04:35):
year which I went as Wolverine, like Hugh Jackman's Wolverine
nice and I'm like that could be a good thing for Comic Con.
I've never been to a Comic Con. I like I've got to go to a Comic
Con and just ended up being thatyear.
I'm like, well, I've already gotthe costume.
I already had all of the gear and I had it like nailed.
I had everything was actually like more or less, you know what

(04:56):
he wore in the show. So I'm like, cool.
So I go along to the, to the, the Comic Con in Brisbane, got
to write off Hugh Jackman's coattails and, you know, write
off his success, which was fantastic because everyone's
like, oh, can you get a photo with my child?
And I'm like, yeah, OK, sure, why not?
You know, I was loving it. Yeah.
So I guess, look, Long story short, I'm, you know, they, they

(05:18):
had the the booths set up. You could go along and, and talk
to different people. So I've looked through the list
and I'm like Andrew James. I'm like, that's going to be
cool. And, you know, the, the the the
Star Wars thing and The Hobbit thing and all of that.
And it it was around that time Ihad only been in been doing the

(05:41):
acting thing for maybe a year. So it was about 2014 when I
first started. 2013, I was kind of having a bit of an awakening
and looking at the entertainmentindustry. 2014 I actually
started to do some training and got serious about it and then by
2015 the way it came about as part of my acting course done

(06:05):
through the warehouse workshop, which you know very well.
In the got on the gold. Coast on the Gold Coast at
Helensvale. So good.
Yeah, So good, Brilliant. Yeah.
And as part of that, we had to do basically a show reel.
And one of those was an animation.
So we had the footings to Nemo that we didn't have to voice

(06:27):
over just as part of the course.And it's funny how, you know,
things work out. People are more excited about it
than I was. They're like, this is going to
be brilliant, Craig, we've got you playing the True Sharks from
Nemo. Perfect.
And I'm like, Oh yeah, no, that that'll be OK.
And like they were all more excited about than I was.
It's like the role you were meant to play.
I'm like, oh, OK, we'll give that a go.

(06:47):
So I did that and I'm like, wow,that was so much fun.
And I'm like, I'd never really thought about the voice over
side of things. And I'm like, cool, I'll look
more into that. So ended up, you know, looked
online, found the course throughthe voice booth.
That was all cool. Enrolled in that hadn't yet
started back to Comic Con. Go along to Comic Con.

(07:10):
Hey, let's go and meet Andrew Jack.
He's his fantastic assistant. And the way it just worked out,
you naturally gravitate to people.
I mean, naturally I was talking to Andrew Jack, like he was the
one I was there to talk to. And, you know, I, I was quickly
talking to Andrew Jack, the person that I was with at the

(07:30):
time ended up talking to Andrew and I ended up talking to you.
And I, you know, what do you do?I've just, you know, want to be
an actor, you know, and just just started looking at that
voice over and that obviously pricked your ears up.
Oh, OK. I'm like, yeah, look, I've just
enrolled in this course and you're like, oh, OK, what's the
course? Who's that through?
I'm like, that's the voice boothin Brisbane and you're like, I

(07:54):
think I'm actually, I'm teaching.
I think I'm teaching that courseand like.
Really. Then next Saturday and I'm like.
Really. You're sure?
Oh, yeah, I'm pretty sure I am. That's the one in Brisbane.
Yeah. I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm like, you were like, yeah, yeah, I'm actually teaching
that. I'm like, like Sarah and again,
serendipity, fight the universe stepping in.
It's like, how bizarre is that? And that's it.

(08:17):
Like you and I were off chattingabout this and that.
And yeah. And I remember something you
said that that really stuck withme.
And even in the lead up to today, it was sort of, you know,
you play things back in your head and you were like, look, I
know so many people in the industry that have been doing it
for a long time have a lot of training supposedly to be the

(08:37):
best. And some cases they're no better
than people that are just in it,that are passionate, that have
just started but are passionate about it, whether or they do or
don't have natural talent. And you're like, you know, just
just jump in and give it a red hop.
Yeah. Hard work will out win talent
any day. Every time, yeah.
And so look, I, I guess the Longstory short was, you know, I got

(08:58):
in a voice over was a voice actor for quite a lot of years
and had a really good career at it loved it.
It was so much fun, you know and, you know, made some coin
out of it. Met some great people, did a lot
of work and even now I I pop up all the time for people in all
kinds of like corporate videos, nice website explainers.

(09:19):
I'm I did AI, did an American computer game.
There's all kinds of things thatare.
Like a character in a computer. Game.
Yeah, yeah. It was like I was playing all
these Australian soldiers and soI had to do all this like get
down, take, come on, come on, dig on, let's go.
Come on, dig on. Oh man.
The day. Yeah.

(09:40):
And they're like, can you do a New Zealand accent?
I'm like, sure. They're already just over the
pine. We'll give that a go.
So culturally appropriate. Yeah, that's that.
So, yeah, no, that was a lot of fun.
But yeah, that was that was where we first met.
And 10 years ago, yeah, 10 yearsago.
Wild. 10 year friend adversary. See, I keep remembering the like

(10:00):
last night was it's we're just shy.
So the 31st of March. Well, that five sentences
retracted there just went right.Pulled it right back.
Sorry for those of you that are playing along, listening to
listening to some kind of transcript that makes no sense.
In a few days it'll be the anniversary of five years since

(10:21):
Andrew died. And I've been thinking about
that number so much. We had a little gathering here
of friends last night and lit a candle and had a cry and, and
did that and which was really beautiful.
But I keep forgetting that that was just when he died.
There's the six years before that that I spent with him when
he was alive. Like it's just, I've been, I've
compartmentalised his death so well just to get through the

(10:44):
last five years and everything else that went on in that time
that was also cataclysmically challenging.
And so and hearing you say that this was 10 years that we were
there doing that. And Andrew were, and I were in
full flight of our relationship by then.
Like we were already arguing like a married couple by then.

(11:05):
And so it's really lovely to remember that this man had such
a big part of my life and I had a little bit of his.
And I'm so grateful to everything that he showed me and
everything that he taught me andeverything that he gave me.
And I'm so grateful for the timethat we had together and, and I
always will be, you know. 100%. I always will be, yeah.

(11:28):
It's just I, I can never thank you enough.
But which is why the documentarywe're we're developing a
documentary about his life and his work and the work and crew
life and. So exciting.
Yeah, yeah. We've partnered up with a a
beautiful producer in Sydney andI can't mention any names, but
I'm very excited. So, and look, this show's not

(11:49):
even long enough to be able to give him.
We could do like you'd have to do a whole documentary.
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, to to pay the credit, you
know where the credit. Is 92 minutes of feature film
Absolutely. Yeah, definitely.
Yeah. That still won't be long enough.
You know, it's gonna be a highlights.
No, it's gonna be a highlights. Reel.
There's gotta be, there's gotta be a sweet spot there, but it'll
be good because it won't just beabout him, it'll be about all

(12:10):
the other great voice teachers. Yourself included.
Well, I'll be there by default because I'm the one carrying
the, the road map. So I'm just like, look over
here, you know, and that's goingto be great because as an
academically inclined person, not an academic, but I like me a
book and a library and, and I like to nerd out on anything on,

(12:30):
well, the things that I'm interested in for sure.
And so to, to, to just sort of trace the lineage and the
etymology of, for want of a better term of, of the voice
teachers. And because most of them hide
behind their work so beautifully.
They're so talk about caste support and codependence, like
so, so, so good at serving others.
But they'll publish, voice teachers will publish a great

(12:51):
book, but try and get a good interview with them.
And it's not easy. They're very reclusive like
that. And so even more so with dialect
coaches in the film industry. They just don't want to be
interviewed. No.
And you know, we barely go to wrap parties, which is a shame
because wrap parties are hilarious.
But there is something kind of almost like covert Secret
Service operation about not wanting to be known or, or

(13:13):
something. And I think that that's great
and I can understand it for themon a personal level.
But but because my experience with Andrew was so acute and the
and the the shock and the chaos of it all was so acute, there is
for me a need to go, OK, before I shuffle off the mortal coil.
I want it witnessed. Cecily Berry, Kristen Linklater,

(13:35):
Barbara Houseman, all these incredible teachers, Gwyneth
Thorburn, you know, let's let's just go on and into the great,
you know, Sarah Shepherd, all these incredible coaches, Jill
McCulloch. I want Tim Timonik.
I want them celebrated. I want it documented in one
place. These people make actors better.
These people provide a service that was noble enough to be well

(13:57):
paid and they were well taken care of and they were well
respected when they were at work.
But the sacrifice that they theycontributed to be in that chair
all day every day for work for alot of them was really
complicated. And there's a lot of mess around
the experience of being peripatetic like that.
Yeah. But let's just take a moment to
say, well, that's on you, buddy.Like nobody put a gun to your

(14:19):
head. No, like there's a complicity
there. But also isn't that great?
And how interesting and oh, I didn't know that that's how you
made the letter T with the tip of your tongue in the alveoli
region. I didn't know that that was
dentalised in American. Like just there's no singular
documentary about this or book about this.
And that's why I am determined to get this this this film made.

(14:39):
Yeah. And I know from my perspective
as someone who came in to the industry, I mean, I guess most
people don't, but had no background, had no even concept
or understanding of what it was about other than that looks
cool. I like that voice over thing.
Let's let's try that. That'll, you know, give that a
go. And a few people said that, you
know, you'd probably be OK. And your voice is kind of OK,

(15:01):
you know, And then you start down that road even, you know,
when I was doing my, my acting training at the warehouse
workshop. And they're like, Oh, you've got
that classic Australian thing where like you, you tend to not
move your lips too much, you know, and you, you sort of got
that little. And I'm like, what what you
talking about? I don't have any of that.
What you talking about? That's nonsense.

(15:21):
And then it's not until you learn, yeah, what you're doing
wrong that you go. Well, wrong is a big one.
I mean, everybody has an accent.Yeah.
Yeah. You know, there's not one right
one. And there's not one place where
someone doesn't have one. So we all do.
Yeah. And I like the Australian
accents. I think they're fantastic.
You know, I've come from Kalgoorlie.
Yes. And my whole family barely moves

(15:43):
their mouths when they're communicating it each other.
So like, oh, yeah. How you going?
Yeah, yeah, no worries. Yeah.
Yeah. You know, And it's charming in
its own really strange and crazyway.
And it's like they're joking. It's hot.
So we have to be efficient so wedon't move our lips and we try
and string as many words together as we can.
So it's not how are you going? It's there.
You go there. You go.
There you go. Yeah, a little effort.

(16:04):
Maximum impact doesn't have maximum impact, though I'm not
so sure. Not so great for if you're on
camera or if you're on the microphone.
Not a verbal culture. Australia as much.
Yeah, yeah. So, you know, you learn the
things that you taught me residents using you, you know,
and all of these things that andlike it blows me away.
And again, we don't have long enough to talk about it, but so

(16:26):
many going back to to the the The Voice booth course in
Brisbane. Oh yeah.
You know, I remember meeting you.
At the Studio Alchemics, I've done so much in Alchemics, I did
the Audible Audible. There's more to imagine when you
listen. I did the Audible campaign in
Alchemics. I'm allowed to say that they're
so great there. Shout out to Alchemics and to
Andrew Nolan. The sounding. 100% and

(16:47):
voicebooth so great great literally I mean apart from some
training at the warehouse workshop where as I said, you
know, we did the Nemo clip and that was all part of the the
initial training. But voice boost and the training
through you is actually my firstand.
I. Real taste of it, that's I'm.
Sorry to interrupt, but I get soexcited about this.
A lot of I've been. I've been in this game since I

(17:08):
was 14 years old. So quite recently.
So quite recently, thank you fornoticing.
So from the age of 14 to 28, I was an actorian.
And then after that I switched over to the other side and and
I've been a voice and dialect coach since I was 3032, so.
Again, not all that about. Again, just yesterday.

(17:28):
So why do I mention that? Oh yeah.
So back in the day when I would have young people or parents
come to me and say, oh, you know, she's very talented, where
should she study? The answer that I gave was very
different than to the answer that I give now because so much
has changed. And now I am just as likely, if
not more likely to suggest, especially to someone who's

(17:52):
already quite obviously committed and capable and
talented. However you measure that by
saying to them, just go and do ashort course, just go and do a
workshop. And it it will give you just
enough to know what you don't like and what you do like.
And then after that you can become selective, get a private
coach, have a couple of class. I read an interview with the
beautiful, incredible, brilliantMargot Robbie, who I've never

(18:14):
met or worked with. And she said that when she was
cutting her teeth as a young actor, she would spend all her
money on dialect coaches and acting coaches.
And I thought, you go girl. Thanks for the Thanks for the
shout out. Because.
You know, she works with Liz Himmelstein, who's a genius
dialect coach in America and andmother Robbie's work in dialect
and and and acting generally is flawless, just unbelievable.

(18:36):
And I'm such a fan. And to read that a young her was
investing the money in that, that craft makes so much sense.
Because when people begrudge thecost of a workshop or a coach, I
can't help but remind them what a degree costs. 100%.
And all the hours that you can'tearn a living while you're
earning that degree, like when we were all going, when we were

(18:59):
9/19, had been fragged to death.You were never my age, right?
But when we were cutting our teeth, you, you weren't allowed
to work. You could work, you could wait
tables on the weekends, but you couldn't go to, you couldn't go
to auditions or do any acting oranything.
No, for three years you were locked up in tights, running
around talking to you. 100% there was no other way.
Yeah. And again, that's before my
time. I didn't go down the I didn't

(19:20):
agree, but not in this industry.Yeah, you don't need to do that
now because everything is so much more accessible.
Yeah. Now, is it not valuable to run
around in tights talking to yourself for three years?
Of course it's valuable, but only if you're, you know, 19 and
you're a bit lost and you don't know what you want to do with it
or if it's what you want to do and then go find out in tights.
Yeah, for sure. Or if you come from an

(19:40):
environment where you have no support and no encouragement and
no network, and you need those academies in a way to support
you through your craft learning and keep you safe and healthy
and well until you're ready to graduate and get an agent and go
looking for work. But for everybody else who's,
you know, half smart with an iPhone and is, is kind of, you
know, a little bit resilient. You can get what you need to

(20:01):
know what you need to know to dothe acting thing, as long as, in
my professional opinion, you remain curious about the acting
thing. Why not?
Yeah. Why not?
Yeah. Hello.
The Internet, you know. Yeah.
Yeah, I was going to say the College of Google has been very,
very handy for a lot of people. It it's, it's uncomfortable and
and it feels like I should be ashamed to admit it.

(20:21):
Having said that, as a compulsive student, like I'm
always enrolled in something like it's a problem.
I really wish I'd stop. I really wish I'd just read a
book and enjoy my time. A. 100% And to your point, I can
actually remember you saying that to me.
I remember coming on to so many of your classes and I remember

(20:43):
coming to. I think it was probably the last
class that. Was the drop in classes.
No, no, this is one at the warehouse and it was just, I
think it was like a day course. OK, Yep.
And it was one that you and Andrew Jack did.
Together. Oh yeah, that was rare.
We only did one or two of them. And yeah, yeah.
Oh look, it's it. That was magic.

(21:03):
We left that goosebumps sticks with me.
It's one of those days that I'm like, I could never have seen
that coming, but it sticks with you.
Some days really stick with you.And I remember you saying to me
on the day like, why are you even here?
And you literally said to me like.
You could be. Teaching this course you should
be standing up the front taking this course absolutely and

(21:26):
Andrew was standing next to you.I believe he was on your right
to the left, and he actually paused and he looked at you and
he said you're probably fine. It's, you know, because he loves
it, because he's doing what he loves doing it.
I'm like, yeah, for sure. Still getting.
Emotional. But I hadn't planned on that.

(21:47):
You're getting emotional. About how great for you what?
What is the emotion that you're feeling right now?
Just happiness, just joy, just the blessing of having had the
chance to work with him and you on the same day at the same
time, like. Like having the the crazy mum
and dad experience. Was very much excited and, you
know, like just just a day that you just never saw it coming

(22:09):
that you you'd never have known about.
And like such, I guess a compliment to have you say like,
why are you even here? What are you, what are you doing
here? Like you should be teaching this
course. Why don't we go and we'll go and
let Craig do that, you know. And he was saying it's like,
because he loves it, because he's passionate about him,
because he wants to have as muchexperience and as much training

(22:30):
and as much to do with it as he can.
And he's like, you know, that's,that's what it's all about.
Like that's the crux of it. There plenty of people I want to
be an actor, you know, it's the whole Tony Soprano thing.
You know, everyone wants to be agangster until it's time to do
gangster shit. And it's, it's, it's the same
thing with acting. Everyone wants to be an actor
until it's time to do acting shit, you know?

(22:51):
And then you. Can't eat any calories for the
next three years. You have to do all these stunts
you. Mean I have to work and train
and do all these courses and. Well, you have to go to bed.
You have to go to bed at 5:00 PMbecause you're waking up at
2:30, Yeah. But you never do.
You go to bed at 1:30, you get up and.
Wake up at 2:30 and you can't eat any calories, and then they
throw you out on the plane. Yeah, that's great. 100% But
yeah, like, you know, that that was a day that you just having

(23:12):
the privilege again of, you know, the honour and privilege
of, of working with you both. And just, it didn't matter how
many times I'd done a course, just the amount of things that
you can learn feeding back to what you were saying about
should you do a degree? Should you not do a degree?
I think The thing is that as long as you're doing something.
Oh yeah, if it charms you to do a degree, do the degree.

(23:35):
Yeah, my God. Nice couple, They're fantastic.
They look great on the wall. And and the doing, yeah, as you
said, until they want to do acting shit until they want to
do what it was the the original.Yeah, everyone wants to be an
actor until it's time to do actors shit.
And you got that from. The Sopranos.
That's The Sopranos. It wants to be a gangster.
I love that so much. Till it's time to actually do

(23:55):
gangster shit. If you love doing the gangster
shit of going to the studio in tights and eating canned tuna
and brown rice for the next three years, fucking do that.
Just. I loved it.
Yeah. Loved it.
Yeah. I mean, I was a wreck, but that
was I needed to be because I think like a lot of people
acting, whilst it isn't therapy,and let's be really clear, there

(24:16):
it is, it can be very therapeutic.
Yeah. And for me there was so much
self help and personal development that I accidentally
got through the engagement of the acting process that I didn't
know I was going to get. I just thought that I wanted to
express myself and have impact and be important and carry these
great writers stories and affectpeople with them and stir

(24:39):
people's hearts up to make them better and and help us all have
important conversations. What I didn't realise that in
the act of learning how to be anactor and then further again,
still learning how to serve actors, I'm learning so much
about myself and myself in the world that I, I never knew.
And I've had more therapy than I've had hot dinners.

(25:01):
Like I've had so much therapy and I'm talking high grade like
psychiatry because I'm expensiveand I'm impatient.
So I'm like, who's the I need answers to help me out, right.
So it's not, I'm not saying thatit will, it will help you.
Therefore do it. What I am saying is that if you
can rise to meet the mirror thatthe acting process keeps

(25:25):
throwing at you, then you will obviously learn so much about
yourself and in that process I would hope inevitably become a
better person for the people around you.
Amen. And I couldn't have summed that
up any better, right? And that's why there is only one
Gabrielle Rogers like that. If I had AI couldn't have

(25:46):
written that. But that's what I that's I hope
this is all working. That was good, was it?
That was exactly like. That's exactly my point.
That's exactly what it's all about, and that's spoiler alert
for anyone who's considering acting or the entertainment
industry in general. Little spoiler alert.
You won't know this going in. You will learn far more about
yourself, Socrates. Know thyself.

(26:08):
You'll learn far more about yourself than you will ever
learn about the industry or acting or the craft in any way,
shape or form. That's the real lesson.
What a blueprint is yourself. What a blueprint.
And those lessons you will carrywith you forever.
Yeah. Like those little things that
you will learn along the way, you will carry into everything

(26:29):
you do. Even if you don't stay in the
industry, if you go into something different, yeah,
you'll carry that with you forever.
I think that's really valuable information too, for a lot of
people who are like a bit lost in terms of wanting a hobby and
not really sure. And well, I'm 38.
Should I really isn't that for kids?
Or if, if there is an appropriate environment for you
to explore safely the acting process, whether it's unseen

(26:53):
work on a script or an amateur theatre company or actually an
amateur theatre company is far more hectic than just a polite
little workshop with a scene in it that's much more contained.
But I would always just piggybacking on what you're
you're putting down there that Iwould always encourage someone
to, to do that if it charms you.Because if, if, if the
facilitators of the opportunity are any good at what they do,

(27:14):
they will know that everybody there is working on different
assumptions and different levelsof awareness as to their process
and to what's expected and what's required.
So some people are there are literally to finesse 1 aspect of
their acting craft that they want to work on.
Like they're that niche, they'rethat developed in their
awareness. They just want to work on their
vulnerability or they want to work on their breath or they

(27:36):
want to work and they'll go intothat workshop specifically with
that point of focus really for them that they're expert.
That's great. Others will come in going, I
have no idea. It's just that my niece said
that they do these courses and Ijust thought I'd give it a go.
And there there is a bit of a slow term in the offering field
because I've worked in the offices that deliver these
things and I've provided, you know, the delivery of these

(27:57):
courses for a number of institutions over the decades
that I've been working in this field.
And there is a slow word that isused called entertainment.
And it's a very apartment term. It it, it is as it sounds.
It's like, look, we've got 2611 year olds on a Saturday for four
hours. Two of them might be actors.
The rest of them, their parents,just don't want to deal with
them. And they've got the money to

(28:17):
drop them off here in the hope that they'll get off their
phones for 3 1/2 hours. So you've got to work to that as
well. Now, you can imagine that's
putting oneself in a very vulnerable position of like,
well, if I'm as an adult going to something and enrolling in a
workshop, what am I dealing withand who am I in all of this?
And the answer is, for me, who cares?
Have fun. Yeah.
Go learn a thing. Yeah.

(28:39):
And I, I am so grateful and so lucky that I get to watch people
fail and try all the time. As a coach on Zoom all weekend,
Yes. On film sets all the time, you
know, correcting an active because he's literally
mispronounced a word in his own language.
Like he just couldn't read it right.
And he got the whole meaning wrong.
And it should be hugely embarrassing for him in this
moment and handling it and just getting up and brushing your

(29:01):
knees off and doing it all over again.
That resilience and that playfulness.
Because they're not screen works, they're screenplays,
right? That playfulness, that
irreverence is, I think so useful and unquantifiably
helpful in any person's experience of what it is to be a
human to go and play with other humans who you've never met
before in a contextually really appropriate and Safeway with the

(29:23):
writing of the greatest writers of all time to get you where you
want to go, which is clean expression of pure emotion.
Who doesn't want to do that exactly Who doesn't want to say
it was me and I loved it. Who doesn't want to say you're
fired? Who doesn't want to say I'm
sorry, you know, with, with all that gravitas of, of a great

(29:45):
writer building up to that moment and to have that vocal
invitation, that facility, that allowance, that literally it's
your line. It's your line, it's your line.
And you've got to say that devastating thing.
What a gift. Yeah, what a gift.
We're Michelle and I were only talking about this yesterday of

(30:06):
being a child and as an adult tapping into to being a child
and and playing. That's what it is.
It's, it's being, it's that ability to be able to play.
And if you're really lucky, you'll be able to do it in front
of other people. If you're even luckier, someone
might even pay you to do it. And if you're really super
lucky, you might even make enough money to actually live

(30:26):
off. They're extreme examples.
There's a lot of luck involved. That's just that ability to play
and have fun and and to experience that.
And I think they're the things you don't see coming.
They for me, they were the things that it was like, I think
the big thing for me was like, OK, actors are the best liars.
You know, actors are the ones that could pretend the best.

(30:48):
Oh, it's only it was so, but yeah.
And it's like probably day one, you're like, OK, the first thing
you need to know is that it's all about you being truthful and
honest and openly like. Wait.
Hang. On Am I in the right room?
I gave you for pathological lies.
What are you still? Acting.
Seeing the. Vulnerability and accessing my.
What do you don't have to be open and honest and authentic

(31:09):
and what like when did this happen?
Is this a new thing? But.
You know, we have a, we have a little saying on set sometimes
of, you know, especially with the, the higher numbered actors
that are living the dream and like always happy.
I could do this all day. Because like they'll be in, you
know, six hours of prosthetics and hot or cold or, and can't
eat and, and for all the different reasons, like

(31:31):
literally can't get food in their mouths with all that
prosthetic and stuff. And you know, so uncomfortable
and tired and and you'll just say, how are we going?
And they'll just go, I could do this all day.
Lovely big smile on the face because yes, it's hard, but we
signed up for this, right? There's that's the complicity of
no one's got a gun to your head.There are other jobs.

(31:52):
There are other ways to make a living.
There are other ways of expressing yourself.
Write a write a haiku, you know,write a haiku.
Yes, spray paint it on your local building and go to gaol
and and then have a fight in there.
I don't know. You could express yourself that
way. Please, please don't go to gaol.
Don't do write the haiku, and dodo it Banksy style, beautifully,
somewhere where someone will enjoy it.
But no, I've lost my train of thought.

(32:13):
Old people on a Sunday. Sorry, it's gone.
It's gone. Lazy Sunday, Just.
Like that, it's gone. You were saying about how people
have that ability to you know, no one's holding a gun to their.
Head. Oh yeah, they're doing it.
Thank you. Thank you.
Yeah, just to just to say that like, yeah, look, if it's, if it
is fun and and you mentioned playfulness and fun and I, I
don't disagree with that at all.I'm right there for that.
That's the good stuff. And I'm, I love actors for being

(32:35):
such gooses. Like we can be really silly.
Yeah. And you know, because I'm not an
actor anymore, but you know, that's my I hang out in the
sidelines and we we just muck about a lot of the.
Time actor adjacent. Actor adjacent but there but
there but there are also there'salso the invitation to be
incredibly serious you know and acting can be an incredibly

(32:56):
serious experience in the sense that it feels very team America
and I can feel myself getting set up but yeah but but in a
safe environment in an appropriate environment allowing
oneself to explore the deep and devastating emotions and to to

(33:17):
connect with an audience throughshowing your shame or throwing
yourself into the turmoil of chaos and not knowing what
you're doing and and and allowing that to be a shared
experience so that we can all watch your chaos and not know
how to help you because you're spinning out and to be able to

(33:38):
create that is wild that's. Bizarre is is unexplainable.
Right. It's King Lear.
It's, it's wild and it takes us somewhere that is so
quantifiably valuable. Like I can, I hand on heart,
suicidally depressed as a young person in my 20s, very

(33:59):
complicated young person, very, very sad and upset.
Would drag myself to the theatre, drag my $15 across the
counter that I, you know, workedhard for.
And I'd drag myself into that theatre and I would leave there
completely filled with hope. Yeah.
No matter what, no matter what. Never, ever regretted going to

(34:22):
the theatre. Yeah.
Not once. Always came out better.
Usually songs, mascara, yes, Butthat catharsis of sitting with.
And in my generation, it was Cate Blanchett, Noah Taylor,
Geoffrey Rush on stage, Belvoir St, Company B every night, every
week. Richard Roxburgh.
Like Jacqueline McKenzie. These, you know, Carol, all, all

(34:43):
these incredible actors, Judy Davis directing, Colin Freels
devastating and I, I just am so grateful for that church, you
know, and now I'm completely addicted to Queensland Theatre
Company. They I just won't leave.
They I'm a limpet. I'll be at every show they put
on because what's going on in that theatre company is so
exciting. A. 100%.

(35:04):
And Laboit I don't get enough of, but I've been to a few at
Laboit and yeah, live theatre. Anybody, if you get the chance,
get out there and do it because and again, workshops and amateur
theatre, you know, the attentioneconomy of TikTok is so boring.
It's so boring. Take a book, go sit by the
river, go to the theatre. You might actually meet people.

(35:25):
Go just go now and Google what is my local theatre company.
Go to your local community if you've never been.
Yeah, go in, Noosa. Noosa yeah, yeah.
Shout out to the mall. Woolenbach Theatre Company,
shout out. Done a number of shows through
them and just absolutely loved it.
It's, it's, it's whilst it's still acting and you know, I'm

(35:46):
saying this more for the people playing along at home whilst
it's still acting. It is a totally different animal
all together. And there is, there is like as
you just said, far better than Iever could.
The the experience, it's just whether it's in the show or
watching the show, the experience is just it's, you
couldn't even describe it. We can do our best, but you

(36:07):
couldn't even describe it to andit's essentially we are changed
definitely. Is that connection?
Is that human? You cannot be not affected being
in the space with somebody who'sgoing through the most
extraordinary story and you get to bear witness. 100% and it's
exactly like I'm not even fit tocarry your bags out to the car,

(36:28):
let alone any of the greats thatyou've mentioned.
Excuse me? However again, we're trying.
Well that's good. Exactly.
Travel Light. We have to.
We'll get there, but the point is that it's exactly what we are
trying to do here today. And it's storytelling.
And it taps into that very primal, you know, caveman,

(36:53):
prehistoric thing of sitting around the campfire telling
stories, whether it was the rockart on the wall or, you know,
the, the passing of the stories around the fire.
It's that retelling of a story that you may not have had been
Privy to, and that's all it is. And that has evolved through

(37:13):
Shakespeare, through theatre, through TV, through film, not so
much through TikTok. But.
Yeah, I like, I like watching the people shuffling.
I'm always amazed at the physicsof that.
Yeah, yeah. That's fascinating.
They all seem to have very big sneakers.
Yeah, and they've all got 6 fingers now thanks to AI.

(37:33):
Not sure what that's all about. They've become flaming Peacocks
and morph into crocodiles, yes. Very strange.
Yeah, I try not to go there. I try not to go.
There. But yeah, I, I, I guess that's,
you know what I've if, if peoplewatching that aren't in the
industry and don't have that first hand experience of it,
then I hope they get even just aglimpse of understanding what

(37:56):
that feels like, what, what that's about.
And I think that that's perhaps why, you know, this is almost
contradictory to what we were just saying.
I'm about to say, too many people think they can do it
right. So that's an inflammatory thing
to say. Too many people think they're
actors. What do, what do I mean by that?
And I, if I, I completely stand by if someone wants to go and do

(38:20):
a workshop or go the amateur theatre company or just go to be
an audience in something and find out, then absolutely yes,
yes. Like there's no gatekeepers
here. There's no folder holders,
there's no Nepho VIP passes here.
We're talking straight up communications, bare boards and
a passion. And that goes for film and
television as well. If you're good, you will float.
Don't let that neppo baby shit frighten you off.

(38:40):
Yes, go, go in. You know the floor is yours.
But there are a lot of people who seem to want to hang on to
an experience that is no longer serving them well.
And I, I, I see this in a coupleof people very rarely, but just
every now and then someone will flag me and I'll just kind of
go. I'm worried about this person's

(39:01):
hanging on to all their eggs in this basket.
That was me. You know, I had all my happiness
eggs in the acting basket. Yeah.
And even though my career was onthe right trajectory and I was
doing well, you know, compared to all my peers, I was doing
really well. I was tracking perfectly well,
but I wasn't well in it. And so my experience of joy in

(39:22):
it was not good enough to for meto choose to keep going.
So I was lucky. I found this other thing that
that I'm more devoted to, which is great, but people who don't
know when to let go of somethingthat's no longer serving them.
And I think that's because when we look at acting, it's not like
the cello, you know, it's, it's harder to measure.

(39:42):
Like I'm, I'm up there, I've gotall the words in the right
order. I'm doing it.
I'm in the middle of frame. I didn't bump into the
furniture. I have feelings.
I watch other actors on screen having feelings.
I have those. I want to express mine again,
this. That's completely valid.
But when I when I work with people outside of, you know,
gainful employment or sometimes even just on the periphery

(40:04):
within and they're a bit desperately hanging on to
wanting it to work, but it's notworking in terms of, and this is
the important bit, their own litmus of what's success.
Yeah. So for me, even though I was
doing really well compared to mypeers, it wasn't good enough for
me. Yeah.
So I had to go and throw that. Whole Shibu in the air and

(40:27):
effectively start from scratch and start a whole new career.
And it took me 8 years to to to really show traction there.
But that was my choice and I wascommitted to that.
And I wasn't even really that aware that it was happening at
the time. All I knew was this made me
happier and I felt stronger in this than I did in acting.
So that felt good enough to go with.
But do you know what I'm saying that like, sometimes it's really

(40:47):
easy for people to just flick through a magazine effectively
and go, Oh, well, I'm skinny or I'm pretty or I'm I have
feelings. And everyone tells me I'd be a
good actor. Everyone tells me I'd be good on
I. Can cry on cue.
In search show here. Yeah, you know, and, and that
might be right, but also if it'snot working and you're not

(41:08):
happy, let it go. Like there's no, you're not
going to get a medal for hangingin.
I've been doing this for 25 years and I've slaved and I've
sacrificed and OK, even if you're not happy, please.
And he's saying that and I do. And look there, there's
situations that. Go.
Indeed, Definitely, Yeah, Yeah. And there's situations that go

(41:29):
in every direction. There are some actors that have
struggled for a long time and feel like they've got nowhere
and then just got that right show, got that lucky break.
Or just the stars line. Guaranteed though.
Guaranteed. Any actor like that that you
ask, they will often if not always say that something
shifted right before then, like they were just ready to throw in
the towel. 100% they were just and and that that moment of of

(41:53):
irreverence. Or do you know what?
Fuck it, I don't need this just.Throw, Yeah.
Literally makes them the most interesting person in the room
all of a sudden. That was to change.
Right. Yeah.
What's that great actor in Breaking Bad, Bryan Cranston.
There was a wonderful interview with him and I'm not sure about
the timeline, so please don't hold me to it.
But he said he got it when he realised that going to an

(42:17):
audition was not dear Sir, dear man, please, can I have the job,
please? Going to an audition was, well,
I'm an actor and you gave me theingredients and I baked this
cake and there it is. And then that's that.
And then I leave. And after that I don't think
about it again. 100% my job is done.
My job as an actor is to create a character or performance.

(42:37):
Out of what? Out of the words that you gave
me in the facts, and that's whatI did with it. 100% most heard
exactly the same. Thing from George.
Clooney, Really. When I was reading an article
and he'd said exactly the same. Thing George Clooney.
It's the same thing as young Bryan Cranston.
I was probably only about a yearin and the same thing I was like

(42:57):
doing the the audition process and and trying to get my head
around it. And it is a strange animal to
try and get your head around. But listening, read this thing
about, you know, Clooney said what you have to learn.
And what I learnt was that you go in, you give it to your
everything, you walk out and younever, ever fucking think about
that audition ever again. Oh my God.
Unless they call you and go, hey, loved it.

(43:17):
You've got the part. Yeah.
And unless that happens, don't you ever think about that
audition. That's good wise you.
Go in, you lay it all on the table and then you leave and you
never ever think about it. Again.
And that's got everything in it because laying it all on the
table means that you devoted yourself to the 72 hours that
you had to the preparation for that audition outside of your,

(43:37):
you know, Ubering and your parenting and your, and, and you
commit to it and you do the preparation and you get the
lighting right. And you make sure the
microphones are working and you try and get some sleep and eat
your nutrient or whatever is required.
And then you get it in the can and then, then you deliver it,
then it's done. You know, it's not like I'm I'm
just not going to get but like that healthy.

(43:59):
Oh, what do they call it? Sexy, sexy indifference.
What do they call it on that great Smartless podcast with
Jason Bateman, Will Arnett and Sean Hayes?
One of my favourite podcasts in the world.
Sexy indifference. It's like that sort of, yeah,
whatever. Yeah, yeah, I don't mind.
But at the same time, you can only kind of be that offhand if
you really know your shit. It's like if you're the shit,
you don't need to tell anybody you're the shit.

(44:20):
Yeah, because I don't give a fuck.
But I give enough of a fuck to give a fuck.
But I don't really give a fuck. That's it.
They can see it in the world. They can see that this person
knows what they're doing. Yeah.
Yeah, 100%. And that's that's a thrilling
moment to get to in one's craft because then one can choose, do
I want to keep doing this? Yeah.
Or am I, like Noah Taylor, goingto get another tattoo because
I'm quitting the industry Again,I'm sorry, Noah, if that's

(44:43):
wrong. We've never met.
But I heard that that was part of your process.
And I just think that, you know,getting a tattoo every time you
quit the industry and then getting the makeup artist to
have to cover it up when you book another gig, it's
hilarious. That's a metaphor.
That's cool. I'm here for it.
The greatest actor for me on theplanet, Denzel Washington, I
remember him saying a similar thing, but after you've got the
role is same thing. You go, you give it your

(45:05):
everything. You know, you lay your heart on
the table and then you walk awayafter you've after you've shot
or after you've you've done the live performance or, or whatever
the particular Ave is and then you let it go.
Again, it's now up to the editors and it's up to the
publicist and everybody else. You've done your thing and
again, you've it's that ability to go give it your absolute

(45:28):
everything and then walk away and go.
I'm satisfied that I've given myeverything.
It's now it's, it's, it's out there.
It's beyond me. It's yeah, it's a collaborative
thing. It's Craig Gryphon Universe
because there's something military about the film process.
We use a lot of the same terms. You know, we use the NATO
phonetic alphabet for the cameraterms and things, and there's a

(45:50):
lot of copy this, copy that, copy you copy, copy.
We do a lot of that. There's a lot of efficiency and
systems and operations become very important.
Comms are devoid of all nice to cheese.
It's very, it can be quite brutal.
Baptism of fire. Baptism of fire and I have so
much respect and regard and withall due respect for the people

(46:12):
who work in the Armed Services and and my thank you to
everybody service. But I do feel that yeah,
completely. And I do feel that there is a
wonderful similarity in culturallanguage if nothing else, and
expectation, but the way that inthe film industry.
But what I love about that too, is that it's taught me so much
having come from an education and an arts background.

(46:33):
So sort of more academia. High school.
I've taught 5 year olds on a Saturday afternoon for six
hours. You know, when I was 21 I did a
birthday party for a one year old and they're six friends.
It was insane. There's been the whole time
playing with a Twisties wrapper anyway, So I've been there, done
that, got the T-shirt, you know,ridiculous stuff.
But working in an environment that is pseudo military has

(46:55):
taught me how little it is aboutme.
Yes, but also how important my contribution is.
Yeah, 100%. Like I need to be on for 10
hours for that 5 seconds when I'm actually required.
Yeah, that's pretty much the scope of my role, right?
Yes, but I need to be there for those 10 hours because we don't
know when that 5 seconds is going to be 100%.

(47:17):
So that sitting there waiting and being ready to act and then
knowing what to do when called to act in what is usually a very
high octane environment of millions of dollars turning over
and everyone looking at you going, well, which is it?
And it's like all eyes on you and everyone's cranky and tired
and you're like, it's a neutral schwa valve, OK, carrying on,

(47:38):
you know, like it's insane. It's, it's it's comic.
But I, I love that, that I've had that again, like acting
taught me how to, you know, be ahuman being.
Working in film has taught me how to be a worker.
Yes, it's taught me how to work with others because I do not
work well with others. I'm terrible at it.
I'm, I've been working for myself as a freelance artist
since I was, since I could, you know, since I could get away

(48:00):
with it because I've just never been particularly pleasant to
work with. And I think that's.
I I disagree. With try me in an office sitch
like I'm not I'm a very insecureand like.
Sounds like an entertainer to me.
Vulnerable, paranoid, overthinker, codependent type

(48:24):
who worries that she's not doinga good enough job and that
everything's her fault. So that's great for somebody who
needs to be on standby for five seconds for 10 hours.
Like, it's all my fault. I have to be ready for that 5
seconds. Like, really good, really
useful. But all day every day in an
office environment, that's exhausting.
Yeah, like women, especially at work, in workplaces, tend to

(48:44):
just find me exhausting because I don't know what I'm doing.
I don't know how to fill time. So when I'm on set for 10 hours,
being used for five seconds, I will speak so little to other
people. And so many people are having
little conversations or they've got a little department and
they're hanging out and they're doing their thing.
And we've got, we've all got to be quiet because we're rolling,
right. But you can have little moments
throughout the day of conversation.

(49:05):
I'm just this nerd with my face in my laptop and my phone.
I've got two to three sets of headphones going.
I've got a past client whose show has just come out and I'm
listening to it on this one. On this one, I'm listening to
the show that we're actually filming, which hasn't got any
dialogue that I need to worry about right now, which is why I
can just buy this one. And around here, I've got the
noise cancellers and that's ready to go for a bit of

(49:26):
research for something that I'm pitching for next Tuesday.
So I'm just like so full and engaged and enriched with my
work that I'm very happy to not work with other people.
But when I have to, I'm really glad that I've learnt this.
Quite military. And it's like hospitality as
well. There's quite military service
provision of like, it's got to be done now.

(49:47):
Yes. And there is no other option.
No, it just has to be done now. We have to find a solution for
now. Yeah.
Customer is hungry. Yes.
Film is rolling. Yeah, I love that.
Because at the end of the day, it's a business.
It's show business. Big business.
You know, and there's a lot of like you say, you know, it
magnifies, there's a lot of money involved.
And it's like, OK, I don't know,ask Gabby, what's what's the

(50:08):
answer? Literally, Literally.
Yeah, No, I, I am the expert andI have that answer.
Here's your answer. And they're often roided up,
Hollywood executives and they'reall looking at me, like barking
at me because they're scared too.
They're scared that if we get itwrong, this actor's going to be
pissed off. She.
Flows downhill and. Yeah, and and just for that 2
seconds, 5 seconds of every day,it's like it's route.

(50:32):
And you know, for me, and I've spoken about this again,
Michelle and I were only talkingabout this yesterday.
It's that thing where you have to just, it's almost an out of
body experience. You stop and it's like time
stands still and you take a breath and you go, it's all good
internal conversation. It's all good.
I've got this, the breath, and it just comes.

(50:57):
The answer just comes. And it's because of your your
training and your experience andyour personality and everything
you are and the little voice in your head and everything just
kind of mishmashes together. And it just and the and the and
the three microphones and three microphones and four
dictionaries that I've got on myphone.
Craig Gryphon universe texting you to be on this.

(51:17):
I love it, but that's why I that's why I love engagement
with anybody that's interested in the things that I'm also
interested in because I will always learn something in that.
And again, just like that littlenerd, like I was that girl in
the library every lunchtime. Yeah, you know, while the other
girls were out doing ponies and.And I just thought they were so
cute and so wonderful, but I just felt safer and more
comfortable with books. And I've always been very

(51:40):
passionate about poetry and literature and, and I do think
it's a changing. Well, I mean, we know it's a
changing craft. Like poetry may not ever be
enjoyed the way that it used to be enjoyed.
Or now they call it rap songs. Well, yeah, and that's that's
good stuff too, right? But because of, you know, that
thing called the Internet and AIand stuff, which, you know, I'm

(52:02):
aware exists and, and it's really useful and I use it
everyday at work. But I do think it does it.
There is a possibility of the diminishment of of believing
anything anymore. Yeah.
Like if somebody attributes a great quote to Sir Anthony
Hopkins. I don't believe that Sir Anthony
Hopkins said that. No, I have no reason.
I've met Sir Anthony. He's a beautiful human being.

(52:24):
Yeah. But I'm not going to assume that
because the Internet told me he said this amazing thing about
boundaries and the people in your life that he wrote that.
I hope he did. Yeah.
Yeah. Because it's wonderful.
Exactly. And I love reading it on my
feed, and that's great. Yeah.
But now that I don't do social media here, praise Goddess, I
just have to assume that whatever I'm getting on my phone
is a lie. Yeah, I think so.

(52:46):
That's a good starting point. Right.
And and if I if I cross reference enough references that
I trust and that's good because that that leads me down academia
to get to sort of like, well, like what are your sources?
Is it peer reviewed? And I think at my stage in my
life and my career, I need to bethat person.
Yeah. That can't just say, well, of
course it's true. I saw it on.
Facebook. It was on the Internet.
I have to go and do the, the, the research and the due

(53:08):
diligence. So things like dictionaries and
and poetry and, you know, original copies and 1st editions
and libraries. And I'm, I'm really excited to
get old. I consider myself now in my
fifth act and I'm really excitedfor it because I do, I want to
be that Lady in the library withher pencil jotting down notes.

(53:29):
And I can't promise I'm going tolearn how to micro fish if
anybody still does that. But that always overwhelmed.
How good would they? Oh my God, they were wild.
But if I'm saying anything, it is that the spoken word, poetry,
language, literature, it's it's not an affectation for me.
It's always been comfort and solace and excitement and bliss

(53:50):
and joy and windows outside of, you know, for me, what was a a
very lucky and, and lovely, but,you know, dysfunctional and
depressed kind of upbringing. You know, a lot of people in my
family were pretty unhappy and that that rubs off on you.
And like you say, it does becometherapy, you know, and you don't

(54:11):
even realise music. Yeah, there is that whole side
of it because you are learning about yourself, you're learning
about other people. You're.
Hearing other perspectives. Yeah, yeah.
And pulling apart, even like with characters, you're pulling
apart who that character is and what it's about.
And whether it's you stepping into the shoes of that character

(54:31):
or watching someone else do it, or learning that there is a
process of stepping into a character.
The things that you learn from that and carry with you, you
never even saw coming. Yeah, What's me?
What's not me? What do I think about that?
You know, is this great doctor Mark Seaton again, is this
wonderful professional in our field who's interested in
performing arts healthcare and he has a paper called Post

(54:56):
Dramatic Stress Disorder. Do you know I?
Fascinating. I'm not going to claim that I
invented that term, but if anyone wants to go back as far
as 2014, you will see that I used that term, especially when
I was doing live theatre shows. I would actually use that.
I'd like to know when he first. Started you guys need to

(55:16):
connect. I would actually use that.
It's probably even a hashtag outthere.
But it's that feeling of finishing a show when you've
spent not only weekends, but most of the nights through the
week rehearsing, talking with people, going through what the
characters about what your what's your take on this?
What's your take on that? And you pour your everything in,
especially if it's, if it's a theatre show, if it's a

(55:38):
production, then it's, it's a very short but very intense
window. You know, it could be 8 to 12
weeks of just everything. And you're living with these
people like you just. It's everything.
Yeah. And then it just stops it.
Just stops. Kurt can call last show and it's
gone. And I actually use that exact
term that that that post dramatic stress.
Disorder. It's totally like that.

(56:00):
I call it post show Blues. Yeah, 100% I.
Call it post show Blues. And it is so important to honour
yourself in that. So one of the things that I find
so interesting about people thatwork in our areas as agents, as
performers, as coaches, as teachers of of the arts that are
the performance kinds, is this idea that oh, that, that it you

(56:27):
just have to take care of yourself in it.
You just have to take care of yourself in it.
You just have to take care of yourself in it.
Like it, we keep saying it, there's so much empathy and
there's so much awareness, but there is also an incredible
blind spot in a lot of performing artists and a lot of
the supporting and allied healthprofessionals and educational

(56:47):
facilities around them to just keep going.
And the show must go on that great documentary.
The show must go on great documentary.
Shout out to the beautiful individual who made that.
I covered his name. He was a Home and Away actor and
now he works with the MEA. He's brilliant.
And the living up group, you know, the mental health in the
in the crew environments, this need to take care of yourself in

(57:08):
it and post traumatic stress disorder, post show Blues warm
downs. I've instigated at Queensland
Theatre Company as much as I possibly can when I'm working
there. Warm downs, warm downs.
Because guess what? You're doing an Ibsen play and
the adrenaline by the final sequence when she puts the gun

(57:28):
somewhere, you're up here. And then we just go, oh, we're
going to let you listen to the foyer, your mother in law, some
alcohol and a Turkish kebab. No, I don't think so.
Now, thankfully, these professionals all know this, but
it's lovely for them to have that gentle reminder while
you're taking your makeup off. That is so cool.
And again, to jump back to your comparison with the military,

(57:49):
it's a little bit the same thing.
And and not to detract anything from what they do.
I'm not saying this is like battle or, or going to war with
that same thing of like being inthe trenches and then OK, back
in society now and and you'll, you'll be fine.
Just you're out of battle and back in the day.
Yeah, the showmance and and again, I really appreciate that
you're you're respecting and honouring the fact that we're

(58:10):
using the military experience asa metaphor and that's all.
And again, we're trying to be really respectful, I.
Respect. Definitely, but.
But that's the. Same thing, yes, it is that
thing of like and I think showmance is healthy too.
So it's the military analogy is good and also the relationship
analogy is good. And of course, you know, in a
post me to post Time's Up era, we have to be really careful

(58:32):
about the language we use here because I don't want to be
inappropriate in any way. But it's a bit like having a
relationship, you know, you're just like, so you know, the show
Mats, it's like, Oh my God. You know, we're just like,
everybody knows everybody, everybody loves everybody,
everything's great. Yeah.
For three months and then you don't see each other again.
Yes. And then you see each other
maybe on the next show or just seriously never again.

(58:52):
And then you read in the paper that that person died or, you
know, has run off with your first wife or, you know, all
kinds of stuff goes on. And it's this really healthy,
boring, normal now in the professional industries that I'm
experiencing where because I cutmy teeth in a time before me
too, and times up where it was still pretty crazy.
Yeah. And now it is so healthy and so

(59:17):
great and so professional and appropriate, and I'm really
proud to be a part of the industry that was a part of that
movement. Yes, that made that happen.
That yeah, that's resulted in where we are now.
Right, really helpful stuff. And of course, you know that
that that pendulum is going to keep swinging away like humans
do. But the, the, the idea of it
being hard when the show finishes, it's like a breakup.

(59:39):
It's like, you know, but but we were doing, we were doing so
well. Like why does it have to?
End Yes. Was it me?
Yeah, and I remember like day three after a close, you know,
walking home, shoes in hand, a head full of champagne.
Closing night, 5:00 AM. Absolutely.
From the Judgement Bar and and in Sydney's Taylor Square, you

(01:00:01):
know, having closed at the Darlinghurst Theatre Company or
Bondi Pavilion. Just sad, yeah, just so sad.
Like I don't want it to end. You hear that story of Rockstarz
when the tour is over and they go home and they're wondering,
asking where the driver is or what time the call is.
Bono's wife puts him in a hotel in Dublin for two weeks.
Smart girl, smart girl. And and that's the thing too,

(01:00:22):
like that sort of diva narcissism of of sort of like
dropping your wet towel and the floor and wondering why your
sandwich isn't the way you want it.
That's that's a whole other conversation.
Yeah. Please take all of the red and
the blue M&M's out of my bowl. Right.
And they've got a really good excuse for that because they
said if if we see that you haven't paid attention to that,
then you haven't paid attention to the safety protocols.

(01:00:43):
So, yes, so I get it. It's all good.
Yeah. I mean, we're so lucky, Craig.
I'm so lucky to have met you. I'm so lucky to have met Andrew.
I'm so lucky to have met most ofthe people that I've been able
to work with and and learn from and with.
And in this fifth act of mine, I'm looking forward to creating

(01:01:04):
more easy, deliverable ways likethe documentary, to be able to
say to people it's this and thenleave it on people's plate to go
looking for more. Yeah, because my my hours of
being able to deliver that content are starting to wane.
I'm starting to get really tired, starting to get really

(01:01:25):
old and I don't ever want to phone it in.
I don't ever want to be doing itjust for the coin and.
You couldn't if you wanted to. Well, to be honest, I'm a pretty
you wouldn't say that about yourself.
No, you wouldn't say that about yourself.
But as someone who knows you relatively well, has trained
with you, you couldn't do that if you wanted to.
And can I just say on that exact?

(01:01:45):
I'm going to take it as the compliment that I suspect.
Was 100%. Yeah, Look, 100% as someone
who's had the privilege, and I know that you wouldn't say this
about yourself, but as someone who has had that privilege of
knowing you, of training with you is knowing you as a person
is that you bring so much of yourself that's far beyond what

(01:02:07):
you train people. And, and like the gifts that you
have are truly those are gifts. Your ability to pass, have this
knowledge, pass it on to other people is an absolute, really,
really super rare gift that veryfew people have to have the
ability 100% to have the abilitybeyond that to do that that

(01:02:32):
thing of being a really rare teacher and a rare person that
can actually connect with people.
It's it's I've gone totally blank on it.
The Robin Williams film. Stand up on the desk and get the
different perspective. Yeah.
Oh, captain, My captain. Yes, Yes, Walt.
Whitmans, I I cry, my almighty. York.

(01:02:53):
Dead Poets Society. Dead Poets.
Society. Yeah, for me, you very much had
that role of being one of those teachers that people don't even
see coming, Like, Oh yeah, yeah,I'm like, OK, you know, she's
standing next to Andrew. Jack must have done with stuff.
But then and I, and I think the key to it is your personality is
you. It's what makes you you.

(01:03:15):
Sure, you've got these gifts, but it's the you part that
really makes it stick. And that's the sort of thing
you'd never say about yourself. And you probably may or may not
even be able to see yourself, but to have the privilege of
someone who's trained, trained under you and to have seen all
that first hand, it's a true gift.
And if anyone can experience that with you or with any great

(01:03:39):
teacher in or out of the entertainment industry like that
stuff sticks with you. It's like that teacher in
primary school. You might have had one that.
Just awesome, you too. Why was Mrs Lenny, this is Lenny
not the territory in Darwin to is like, you know, one of those
really rare people and it just it sticks with you.
Yeah, you know, yeah. Greg McMillan when I was at

(01:04:01):
TAFE, yeah, 100%. You know, it's that you go in
and you come out a totally different person and you never
even saw it coming. Chemical, man.
Yeah, chemical. 100% look it, itwas the same thing.
I don't think we've touched enough on the legend that is and
was Andrew Jack, but exactly thesame thing.

(01:04:21):
He would hate that and love the same. 100%.
Yeah, I think, I think he would love and hate it at the same
time because he was one of thoseguys who would never publish or,
you know, want anything said about him or anything.
But when I said, oh, look, I'm writing a biography, he was
like, oh, good, I've got some thoughts and I've got a title.
This is not so prepared. Earlier, yes, Yeah.

(01:04:42):
And then when he said, well, whydon't you talk to Robert about
it? And so I spoke with Robert about
it and, and now Robert and I aretalking about it becoming a
documentary. So it's like, right.
So even though you say you don'twant to be the centre of
attention, a feature length documentary is OK.
Yeah, OK. All right.
Well, we'll do that. And if there's three parts, I
mean, you know, sequels. OK, Lunch.
Boxes. T shirts for.

(01:05:05):
A voice documentary? Lunch box?
No, it's not. Not quite Avengers Assemble, but
yeah. And that crazy paradox of
someone not unlike yourself, whois incredibly gifted but
incredibly humble at the same time.
And it's a very rare combination.
I am the result of my experiences and I'm grateful for
everyone and I'm very grateful to have a higher power and and
that's only because of the people that have loved me and,

(01:05:28):
and help me get to where I am now.
If, if that's a good thing, great, 'cause I'm having a ball.
Yeah, I'm having absolute and. Paying it forward and paying it
back, because then you also thenpass that on to other people and
it's contacting. With me, this knowledge ain't
come on with me. No, no, it's contagious.
Then other people spread it on to.
What I really love about you, Craig, is that in in the decade

(01:05:50):
that I've known you, you've never been sleazy.
And that's rare in my game. Yeah.
And I really value that. I really appreciate that 'cause
I'm, you know, whatever, But it's easy for a it's.
Easy to be sleazy. It's easy to be sleazy,
especially when you're a big brassy broad.
You know, it's kind of like a shtick that I can easily fall
into and and that can be really fun.
Like it like it was with Conan O'Brien.

(01:06:10):
But then in in the real life, some people think that that's
kind of licenced to be sleazy. It's like, Oh no, dude, that's
we're playing. That's, that's, that's the game.
It's not, that's for the cameras.
This is not real. No, this is we're all going home
to our wives now. Yes.
So I really value that you've never been that guy, and I
really value and feel free to edit that out because that's
completely no. I I really appreciate that.

(01:06:32):
Again, I take that as a compliment.
It is. It's sad that it has to be, you
know, said. But it's true.
And I really value the fact thatyou're a voice nerd.
You're a voice nerd, Craig. That's who you are.
And I love that about you because I also am a voice nerd.
And if nothing else comes out ofthis podcast that I hope we can
turn one other person onto beinga voice nerd too, because it's a

(01:06:53):
gas. It is.
We are the punks do it like the movement people and the stunts
people. They're all drinking green
juices and getting an early night dude.
We are on the dance floor. We are eating all the things and
drinking all the things and having a whale of a time and
guess what? We sound good when we do it.
And they're the best of the best.
They are the elite. They are the 1% of the 1% of the

(01:07:13):
1%. You know, they're like down the
bottom, the inner sanctum. Right down the bottom, like the
grid of the bottom of the percolator.
Definitely, definitely that's that's very kind of you.
And look, it is one of those industries.
It does have its its upsides anddownsides, But you know, again,
it's coming back to what we're saying at the very start.
It's about just that tapping into the you and the authentic

(01:07:36):
and, and being genuinely you in or out of this industry.
If you can surround yourself andinteract with other people that
are the same, but most of all bethat way yourself.
It's about being in any given situation and just having a
pretty good idea of who you are and what you're about.
Yeah. This is this is, again, I credit

(01:07:56):
you with having an emotional intelligence and an emotional
sophistication that frankly, I've only ever seen in women say
that with. Is one of the biggest
compliments I've. Ever, right?
You're welcome because, because again, you know, my girlfriends
and I, we're all doing the work.You know, we're all self
examining. We're always in therapy.
We're always, you know, which part of this is me?

(01:08:18):
You know, we're 12 stepping it. We're doing all kinds of things
to try and understand what, how am I the problem?
How can I make things better andand at the same time also too,
how is somebody disrespecting meand when do I need to stand up
and say that's not OK? This is not.
Right. And you have always had a really
intelligent litmus for that balance.

(01:08:39):
Yeah. And I can imagine that in your
family and in your circle with your friends and at work, you
possibly are, it looks to a lot to provide the litmus of how are
we all going culturally and how is this all tracking?
And I hope that your voice is heard with respect and
acceptance because you do have avery good litmus.
I think for you know what, things don't feel quite right

(01:09:02):
here. You're very sensitive.
It's my intuition knowing you the way that I do.
And I think that that is an undervalued skill and I hope
that people hear it. Yeah, when you articulate it,
that is really, really kind and I accept that for the compliment
it is. And I do think I'm very
fortunate having growing up in the time that I did, being

(01:09:24):
Generation X, I've seen all of the extremes.
Hilarious. I love being us.
So lucky, really, really lucky to have seen or we're getting
the wind up. Getting the wind up from the
producer. She's fierce.
She's she's. She's on my side, she knows I've
got a massage book. It's the sister, Yeah, but you

(01:09:46):
know, having seen from the good old days, which in many cases
with the bad old. Yeah, it depends what your
experience was. 100% We were very fortunate to have seen what
happened before, to have seen where we were in the middle.
And like you spoke about the pendulum of thing where things
have also swung a little bit theother way, you know, and we do

(01:10:08):
struggle with human beings to find that balance.
And I, I personally believe balance is the key to the
universe. It's the key to everything.
It's good and I. Don't mean the middle, but I
mean where the true balance actually lies for you.
Standing on water, right? Like gotta find the board
beneath the feet to find the thing to go the her.
And it's never gonna be static, right?

(01:10:29):
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's, it's about where
the balance is, where the balance is for you, you know,
and only, only people know that for themselves.
Every case is different. Yeah, case is. 100%, yeah.
And I think at the moment I think we're we are heading back
the other way. But I think the pendulum kind of
went a little bit too far. And I think we lost a little bit
of the side of keeping it real. But I don't know why it is.

(01:10:51):
But as humans, we do do this Crazy.
Thing, yeah, and and that's alsothe clickbait and all that.
Yeah, 100. Percent.
But let's not talk about the Internet because we're better
than that. A. 100% even though this will be
on the Internet, but where wouldwe be with that do?
You know, the internet's really bad for the environment.
So as and ecologically what? No, I'm just.
I'm trying to find experience but no.

(01:11:12):
Internet, but no Internet was harmed in the making.
Oh, well, that's very important.That's good.
I'm glad no internets were harmed, Craig.
It's been an absolute joy and a pleasure.
I have to go and have a massage now because I'm so hard working.
Exactly. And it is Sunday.
What else do you do on a Sunday?I mean, we moved into this house
a week ago and I'm so proud of everything that we've achieved.

(01:11:33):
But my fascia is fucked up. Like my fashion is a fucking up.
It's all fucked up because I do all this Feldon Christ, and I do
really good stuff with my body to take care of myself and I eat
really well. But moving house, there's
nothing healthy about that. It's just dust and stiffness.

(01:11:54):
Well, I think they say that it goes something along the lines
of the death and then divorce and then moving out.
And I think that's the order, hey.
Listen, I've had all three of those in the last five years.
But what do they say? Give me.
A massage. If it happens to someone else,
it's comedy. If it happens to you, it's
tragic. That's true.
That's the ballot. Hey, looked at the the again.

(01:12:15):
I've said this before, but I sayit for a reason.
It's, you know, the honour and the privilege to just be able to
sit down with you and look, I'm so guilty of letting time get
away. We should have done this not as
a podcast. We should have sat down and had
coffee long ago. That's on me.
That's my bad life and Covad andall those other crazy things
that get in the way. But you know, it's, it's been an

(01:12:35):
honour to privilege and I hope we get a chance to do it again.
I'll lock you in now for hopefully somewhere in between.
But if not show 100. I'll, I'll lock you in for, for
show 100. I look.
Forward to Show 100. And as many other episodes as I
can possibly talk you into between now and then as well.
But thank you so so, so very. Great.
Thank you. You're so welcome.
And to your team, amazing. Thank you.

(01:12:56):
Thank you. We'll do it again.
I look forward to it. Cheers.
Bye for now. Thanks.
Bye. Always guided.
Me home you're in my heart and soul, my heart and soul, my

(01:13:18):
heart and soul, my heart and soul.

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