#003 - Sharron Handley - In This Universe with Craig Griffin

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're in my. Heart.
And soul, you turn those dark days into shimmering gold.
I got a a true Lord always guiding me home.
You're in my heart and soul, my heart and soul.

(00:37):
My heart is so. Hey, welcome along, Sharon.
Thank you. How are you today?
How's things? Very.
Well. Yeah, all good.
Thank you. All good.
Coco playing. That's the way.
Thank you so much for joining meon the Craig Gryphon Universe.
That's wonderful, very exciting.Our officially and for now on

(01:01):
shall be forever known as Hashtag 003.
Excellent. So you can get that todo it on
your arm or merchandise. You can get it on a shirt.
T shirts, yeah, so. How've you been?
What's been happening? Lots happening, Always lots

(01:21):
happening. I've been good, really good.
Always lots happening. Firstly, tell me, tell me, tell
me, tell me. Tell me about the Big T Texas.
Tell me all about Texas. Oh oh.
Yeah, gosh, jeez. So long ago February now.
That was fantastic. That was a very, I decided

(01:42):
pretty quickly. So I've been watching a guy
called Chase Hughes, who is the number one behavioural profiler
in the world apparently, and I think he's brilliant.
He's awesome, love watching him and his things.
He has tonnes of stuff on YouTube, tonnes of stuff.
So I love what he does and an opportunity came up to go to

(02:05):
Texas to do some learning. It it was a chase.
It was his number one guy. Merlin.
Oh, I don't know how to say it properly.
Chase made a couple of, you know, he came in a few times and
he, he took for an hour and I think, yeah, he's just
excellent. So it's, it's fantastic.
It's a lot about what do you call it when you, you know, he

(02:29):
trains a lot of Navy Seals and it's about, oh, lost the word.
It's bad, isn't it? It's what old age does, you
know, interrogations and trying to see if somebody's lying or.
Yeah. Psychological stuff and how what
to say to get people to say. I can't hear you anymore, Craig.
Oh. Hello.

(02:50):
Hello it. Could be me.
I had a minute. It's gone away.
The joys of live stream Hello hello.
I'm back, you're back. Rather back and you're back.
Yeah, yeah. So look, he just, it helps with

(03:13):
one of the things is about influencing.
So he said everybody is a sales person, everybody's selling
something. Mind you I I'm not doing this
yet because I haven't practised.All the things and I.
I think a lot of stuff has come naturally to me over the years,
but not certainly not to the depth of what he does.
But it was really, really fascinating.

(03:35):
So we think, you know, when we're looking for things, it's
not just they did this, it's gotto come in like a little cluster
and what their norm is. Because if you were looking, if
you thought I was fidgety and nervous, but I move all the
time. So that's my norm.
So you're not going. I don't think she's telling me
the truth because she's got her arms going in with me and she's

(03:56):
talking crazy because I do that anyway.
So it's finding the person's sort of baseline and norm.
And then? So one of the things, his
YouTube stuff's fantastic, blinking is fantastic when
people blink fast. And so he shows all sorts of
clips of people who have been lying and just the language,

(04:19):
it's, it's just really interesting.
Like the the classic, you know, I did not have relations with
that woman. So that woman, Yeah.
Because he wasn't telling the truth.
So that woman, he didn't say hername or her.
He used that woman. So he separated out from that

(04:39):
relations. He didn't say sex.
So there's some real telltale. It's really interesting.
It's about what people are saying, but also what their body
is doing and and so you don't. You don't think of that?
You don't think that's why he referred to her as that woman?
No. Or that's why he had sexual

(04:59):
relations, you know? Yeah, Even though it sounded
weird at the time, I remember thinking it's a weird way to
phrase it. He said.
A lot of people, if they're being interviewed for, say,
sexual assault, they will say I never touched anybody.
So they're also, you know, saying touched instead of, you
know, they were accused of rape maybe.

(05:21):
Yeah. It was just, it's so
interesting. There's obviously so much in it.
But he, he's really, really goodto listen to and to watch.
Has a lovely presence, just a beautiful calm.
Yeah. And watched it.
Have you seen anything? I have.
I've seen, yeah. Once I knew that you were going,
I checked a bit of it out online.
I haven't seen a lot of it, but yeah, it's, it's interesting

(05:42):
that you pointed out, like I always remember, you know, they
say body language and you, you know.
Exactly. And he said crossing your arms
is technically he said it's so overrated, the whole body cross,
crossing your arms. I'm not interested or listening.
A they could be cold, you know. B.
This. Might be comfortable.
But also if it's just crossing their arms.
And I've always thought that I've thought, what if certain

(06:05):
people do certain things? You know, you, you, you touched
on that great point. What if people do certain things
naturally anyway? Or like you say, if it's.
Cold. Or, you know, any number of
things or people could even intentionally be aware that
they're going to think this. If I do that, they're going.
To and so I won't cross my Yeah.So they can do a double negative

(06:26):
as well. They'll go.
I think I'm lying so. I'm not going to cross them.
Or you cross them and you quickly uncross them.
Have you ever done that? You cross your arms to someone
automatically and then you think, oh, exactly what you're
saying. They're going to think I'm
blocking them so I better uncross them.
I was only watching a podcast yesterday and it was

(06:48):
interesting. It was probably about an hour
long and both people on the podcast, they showed them side
by side like this and both the people in the podcast were
mirroring mirroring each other without even.
Realising. Which is always said to be a
good thing. You, you'll stand like a friend
if you're leaning against the kitchen bench and you're they're
doing this. You'll probably do the same.

(07:09):
Our bodies never lie, they say. Yeah, bodies can't lie.
So have you ever done that? You've you've mirrored your
friend while you call Michelle and you just.
Do. You don't realise and then you
you can't become aware of it andyou're like Ben.
It was interesting when you could see them side by side.
It was a lot more. So.
Funny. Yeah, right.
No, he, he, you go. No, I was just going to say like

(07:30):
even at the point where if like they crossed their left leg and
then they crossed their right leg and they were both kind of
doing it without even being aware of it, but it was only
that you were watching that, youknow, you could.
And you went, oh, look at that. But when you do start watching
things, that's when it becomes absolutely fascinating if you
observe, observe people. He did a clip.

(07:51):
He showed us a clip with MatthewMcConaughey.
All right, all right, all right.Yeah, that's it.
That's exactly right. He, he was telling the story and
he's a very animated person. He was leaning forward in his
chair, but he was leaning forward in the bits he really
wanted. There's just so much in it, like
he was really leaning forward when he really wanted to, you

(08:12):
know, to bind his story, which was a true story, but he was
excited. Then he hesitated when he was
about to say something, like he might have been talking about he
smoked dope or something. And then you could see him
thinking maybe I shouldn't tell his story.
And there was hesitation and it's really interesting.
And it must be interesting to people that like yourself that

(08:35):
now have an an awareness of thatand can understand it and can
decode it. How much?
More you, I mean, because it's like they say, it's body
language. So it's a communication.
It's still part of our language,what we do and how we do it and
how we. Yeah.
Or our bodies. So to be aware of it, it must be

(08:56):
fascinating to be able to read so much more of what we're
actually saying. I think I need to really
practise it a lot more. I think you forget and then you
think, oh, I should be, I shouldbe looking at, I think our body
language. We all read it anyway.
I did some stats and I forget. It's something like it's, it's
like 85 or 90% of our communication is Gee, that might

(09:18):
be tone. Now I'm forgetting my own stats
that I searched. I have heard that though that
non verbal communication is sucha large part which is.
Verbal's about 15-8. 15 right? Almost nothing.
It's it's incredible how yeah. And, and the idea is that if you
understand someone too, like he goes into a lot of things, then

(09:41):
you can appeal to them. So you can, yeah, you can foster
better relationships if you're understanding where they're
coming from. And I think also, just like if
you're open to what you know, someone to something someone has
to say to you, again, you can use your body language.

(10:04):
Just having that awareness. You know, it's that like the
open hands, I'm open to what you've got to say.
Yes, yeah. Off it's like, OK, you know, I'm
I'm open to, to what you're telling me.
What were the clusters you mentioned?
Oh, meaning so say as I said, I might be doing this, I might be

(10:25):
telling you a story and you go, did you do this?
And I'll go and I'm talking likethis all the time, but you go.
But did you actually, you know, take the jewellery from that
lady's house, you know, and I'llbe going.
So I might go, Oh God, no, I didn't you go.
Oh, she whopped her hands arounda lot there.
But I'm already doing that personally.

(10:45):
But I might be going, Oh God, no.
And like, oh, so there's, I'm doing a few, am I blinking?
And I'm really scratching and I'm like, oh gosh.
So I'm doing a few things. I'm my language has changed.
I'm blinking a lot. So I'm very nervous, stressed.
I'm, I'm doing what I wasn't doing before.
So, but I'm not just doing one of them, I'm doing a few things.

(11:07):
So somebody might just be talking to you just normally and
you know that they sit quite still.
But then, yeah, they, they sit in their chair and they might
move their hair and adjust. I mean, I fiddle so I'm a
fidgeter, but they might do that.
Their, their, their tone might change.

(11:30):
So it's about having a few things.
It is a beautiful chart and I'vegot to get it enlarged because I
can barely read it. But it they he rates them on
points. So I haven't done my homework
and really looked into this stuff near enough but there's
points and it's something like 11 or 20.
Very vague on this. I apologise.

(11:51):
Not a very good student, that. There's.
If somebody is being untrue, there's like numbers and so
something like that. I did not have relations with
this woman got up to like 20 points or something and five is
5 is already alarm bells are ringing something to that
effect. Please don't quote me, I'm and.

(12:13):
Then they start avoiding eye contact.
And, you know, I can remember him in Clinton in that
interview. You know, he started to look
around and you know those kinds of things.
Yeah, which he wasn't doing. But he didn't just look around
thinking about something. He also looked around while he
was something. While he was.
Yeah. And the other thing is he talked

(12:34):
a lot about where people's eyes go.
That's obviously really important, but you've got to
know where their eyes go when they are recalling something to
begin with. I can't say they looked also, if
I'm trying to tell you something, but I'm looking, I'm
sort of, it's like the old yes, I did it.
So the body is in opposition to what you're saying?

(12:55):
Do you want to do that? I would love to.
Did you ever do that? I never did that so.
You don't. You don't really want that
pizza, do you? No.
No, you haven't. That's so badly.

(13:17):
But the cluster yeah, is is in atonement in the voice as well
as the eyes changing. If they're saying did you do it
and they're recalling and recallmaybe is here and they're going,
I didn't and they're looking completely in another random
place. So that's the eyes, the
atonement. There might be a shift in the
chair, you know, uncomfortable there might be.

(13:39):
So it's a few things that all come in, such as one thing, it's
not them going, I didn't do it folding their arms because
that's not enough. When mentalists have been
interviewed, they talk to mentalists.
They're taking exactly that. But they're taking it to an
extreme level. Yeah.
So they're looking at like, how much do pupils dilate?

(14:01):
Oh, that's. In there as well.
Oh yeah. Really slight things that the
average person, even some interrogators and experts,
wouldn't notice. That so the men Chase knows
them. Yeah.
Like, yeah, yeah, no, yeah. And Chase and his team are like
all over that. And it's extraordinary.
Even facial features that you have, I'm trying to think of

(14:26):
some of them. So of course, raising the
eyebrows is raising the eyebrowsis, oh, I'm interested.
And you know, give me more because you're, you're opening
things up. And, and one of the things he
says, he said even brand new babies, I think they come in
with like maybe four or five facial expressions that are
still, you know, important when people are telling you things

(14:51):
like people go like that's closing up.
And I don't want to say, but oneof the things he said, if you
drop a baby, it'll go. And people still do that.
If you say, would you like to swim with sharks?
And I go, God no. But babies do that.
So if you drop them, they'll go.So it's like that.
Oh no, I don't want this to happen.
Isn't that fascinating? And they're one of the those,

(15:12):
you know, early facial expressions that we learn
probably stick with us too, because they're way back.
They're our very first emotions.Yeah, and they have them and
they stay with us. So there's four or five or
something that babies have, and there's ones that we still have
as adults. But not only facial expressions,
there's things. Of course people do expressions

(15:35):
as in like, remember that, but just do.
Yeah. So do you want to tell me about
that? They go not really.
So there's that, which means, ofcourse they don't want to speak
if they don't want to tell you. And it's like, I'm just not
going to say anything. I think, yeah.
But there's also parts of our face, like, is this the globe

(15:56):
glabella? Is that what it's called here?
Yeah, Yeah, I think so. And that tells you that people
have spent a lot of time going, I don't really get what's going
on. I don't really know what's
happening. So maybe you've had a life of or
confusion. Ohh Gee I'm so bad at this.
I'm embarrassed but there's but.There is, there's so much in it,
there's so many little details that that make such a

(16:19):
difference. Yes, people who've been in a
cult have a like Mark. I can't think what it's called
like their face shows like they might have at the Condor that
they're really smooth under the eyes.
There's all these different onesthat I'm not putting them
together very well. So people are not getting very
good, very well educated from my, from my.
Information. It's fascinating, though.

(16:40):
It's. So, so good.
Yeah. Just to understand other people.
What's his name again? Hip Chase Hughes.
Hughes, we'll drop some. You've got again hang.
On. Yeah.
Hang on. Sure, possibly.

(17:01):
The Internet. Is it that damn Internet?
Can you hear me? Yes.
Is it you or me? Normally I'd say it's me, but
it's you. Can you hear me?
Hello. Yeah.
Should we take these off? Yeah, yeah.

(17:22):
Can you hear me? Yeah, how's that?
Yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me?
I'm just going to put you through my other It's really.
Not only 100% connected to you, Sharon Zeitbart and he has.
To take this bit out. You sounded very robotic all of
a sudden. Beg your pardon?

(17:43):
Now I'm getting a bit of a delaydelay here.
In this. One.
How's that? Yeah.
Maybe pop? Maybe pop the headphone?
Back on. Yeah, because it's repeating me.
Repeating me. Hi.
Hello I. Have to connect them.
Cool. It's very silly.

(18:08):
It's all part of the fun. Oh good.
It's all part of technology. Nobody needs to hear or see
that, you know, fix that. Yeah.
Oh, I just think it's absolutely.
Yeah. Yeah.
Can you hear me? Yeah.
Perfect. No, I think it's, it helps you,
it helps you to relate to people.

(18:28):
It helps you to get a better understanding of if you're
interested in people and you're compassionate, you want to know
what other people are maybe feeling or thinking or going
through so that you know you better sit with them.
And yeah. What?
Applications to see, I mean, he's obviously teaching people
how to how to use it and understand it.
What was his background with it like?

(18:49):
How did he? He was a Navy SEAL for many,
many years, 25 years or something.
He was a Navy SEAL and then he got a brain disease.
He's on a panel. There's four of them and they,
they watch clips like, you know,Prince Harry, not Prince, but
Harry, not Prince Harry, Harry. They watch people.

(19:14):
And then the four, there's four separate guys like on a window,
like, you know, the Brady Bunch and they'll take turns.
Would he? Would he be the the Prince
formerly known as Prince? Different again, I think, Or was
that maybe when that became available?
He said. I love that one.
But yes, at the panel, they watch things and then they'll go

(19:37):
look, he did this and he did that.
And when he spoke about this andthey did Megan, you know, when
she did this, she's nervous and she's grabbing at him or she's
giving him the side eye. And so, so he was watching,
obviously watching that after the show and he noticed that he
had zoned out to no man's land and he and he knew because he

(19:59):
had studied neuroscience. He.
Knew he had something going on, so he got diagnosed with this
particular long name, new neurological brain disease, and
he was having seizures, but he was basically just zoning out.
Wow. I hope I've got all these facts

(20:21):
right. Anyway, he went along and they
said, well, yeah, every time youzone out for, you know, 5
minutes, you're losing 3 years of memories.
And he said he thought that he would be the first person who
would know if he had a brain disease with his work, but he
said he didn't. So cut a Long story short, he

(20:41):
healed that. He is a big, big fan of
methylene blue. So, yeah, so he did a lot of
healing, but the point is when he So he was married with
children and he thought, well, Ineed to look after them.
So he had all this knowledge by this stage, he'd done all his

(21:01):
neuroscience. He'd done so many things.
And so he wrote a. Book called.
I'm really bad. Oh, it's.
So if you've got it handy, if you've got it there, we'll give
it a plug. Oh, hang on, hold on.

(21:26):
OK, here we go. Like I didn't have pyjami pants
on. Behavioural OPS.
Look at big it is. It's a whopper.
So this book, he then went and put everything into here so that
everything was then recorded andthat his family, you know, was
looked after and he has cured himself.

(21:48):
But this stuff is extraordinary,just extraordinary.
That's fascinating. That's probably one of the
biggest, let alone the biggest book.
That's probably one of the biggest binders I've ever seen
on a book. Too, Yeah.
And I, yeah, it's a look at it, I mean.

(22:09):
Yeah. So.
It's just, yeah, it's like behaviour.
I'm just trying to find rising vocal pitch.
Pretty fantastic. Oh, the formation of identity
and beliefs. Jeez.
Enhanced influence. Look, it's, it's fantastic.

(22:31):
Yeah. And it's great that you've got
that as a reference because I mean, a, you can obviously read
it and you can, you know, sort of relearn it, but it'll also
trigger a lot of what you learned as well.
I find that if you go away and you look back at notes or you
know any, any reference material.
Yes, it starts to trigger. It does.
It was so. You know, you did different

(22:52):
exercises and all that kind of thing.
Exactly. And I'm a bit naughty that I
should have been put in a lot, lot, lot more timing since then
to really keep rereading and rereading.
And I think the biggest thing with this and all the work I do
is to learn about yourself firstis to learn where am I in all of
this and what do I do? And because to understand

(23:13):
yourself, I think before you understand others you need to
understand yourself. So I should be doing a lot more
work on that. But I guess.
Yeah, that's that's which I've mentioned previously on the
show. That's Socrates that know
thyself thing. It's it's, you know, I mean,
it's as old as time, but it's such an important concept just
to. Be aware of.

(23:34):
Self and what? What you're good at, What you're
not good at? What your passions are, what you
like, what you don't like? What you love?
What? What motivate?
How you behave, what drives you?Yeah, you know, I did.
There's statistics that I got off online and I put them on my
website. And it's, it's something like

(23:54):
100% of people out of nearly everybody thinks they've got
self awareness. And it's actually about 15% of
the population has actually has self awareness. 85% of the
population does not. Wow.
So that is something extraordinary.

(24:16):
I, I think that we all think we're self aware.
And if you're not, you can't do much about the things that
aren't working for you well, canyou?
Yeah. And I guess it's a it's, it's,
there's two sides to that coin. One, it's having the awareness,
but it's also having the, the courage to then look at that and

(24:38):
go, oh, OK, yeah, I do that. I you know, to have a the
awareness and then to be willingto be brave enough to, to look
at it and accept it and then either change it or not change
it. And I guess it's the the
typical, is it working for you? How's that working for you?

(24:59):
And if it's not and if you don'tcare, you don't have to do
anything. But most people, you know, if
it's not working and they go, that's what's happening.
So I don't want that. Yeah.
But you can make changes. You can always make changes and
you've got to have that awareness first.
Yeah, yeah. That's why you would have seen
that a lot, obviously working with people and you know, both

(25:21):
adults and children and, and looking at those behaviours,
working out, you know, is it nature or nurture?
Is it something that is inherentin them learn because they say
that I don't know what the statistic is, but there's such a
large majority that's learned behaviour that we think, oh,
that's just the way I am. Well, no, it's actually not.

(25:42):
It's things that you. Because you've.
Or. You've gathered your beliefs
from your parents firstly, of course, and then all along the
way you've gathered beliefs. And so many people just sit with
them and go, that's just what I believe or, you know, but it's
so healthy to go. Can I change that?
Is that actually correct now? Because you learned it, you

(26:05):
know, years back you learned maybe you grew up in a house
that, you know, I'm not going into politics, but Liberal and
Labour and your family was Labour.
You know, those rich people are this and poor people are what
matter and say you go up and go,oh, they're awful because and
then at some point you might, asI said, not get in part, but you
might go, oh, I don't think all rich people are awful.

(26:28):
And poor people, you know, I don't have that though.
I don't think that's actually true.
It's great to change your beliefs.
It's great to challenge them. It's great to see if they're
still relevant because they're just stuff that you've picked up
and listened to and gone. Yeah, it's good.
Changing your beliefs. Someone else's narrative.
Yeah, Yeah. Absolutely.

(26:50):
Absolutely. Yeah.
And I picked up some awful beliefs.
I think that's where it's reallygood where you get to that.
I I mean, you're sort of like you say you're really young.
So a lot of what your parents say you, you take it because
they are. Yeah.
I mean, they're teaching you if,if you know, good parents are
teaching you the the skills thatyou need for life so early on,
that's fantastic. And that's what you should do.

(27:11):
Then you kind of get to a point where you go, you know, sort of
whether it's your early, mid or late teens, you start to
question things and you're like,is that just my parents opinion
or is that actually fact? And then you get that sense of
rebellion and it's like, well, no, I know that doesn't sit
right for me, even though my parents said so, you know, And

(27:35):
you start to form your own opinions, so.
You're then, yeah, you know, howdo their beliefs form?
Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
They've carried them on from other generations and.
And I don't think as a as a child or a teenager, I certainly
never questioned A belief. I didn't know there was a thing,

(27:58):
a belief or question. It is, it is what it is.
And part of you doesn't understand these are beliefs and
these are but this where I operate from.
But you might go that why, why do they do that?
Or I don't understand that. But it's not setting that you
kind of really understand I'm forming beliefs about this.
And until later, yeah, when. And even now, I I'm still happy

(28:22):
to change, I believe about something If, if I find that
there's a better way to look at things.
And that's super healthy, just the ability to.
It's very healthy. To not be stuck in.
In one. Way of thinking and I know
myself, I find that every I mean, I, I mightn't have radical
shifts, but I do find that my opinions are constantly evolving

(28:44):
on things. You know, I mean, you, you use
central things of like, you know, integrity or trust or, you
know, there's a lot of things. That are very hard set.
You know, but then there's otherthings that I just think I don't
know about that, you know. No, because a lot of those you
spoke about our values and we have values and we really live

(29:08):
by values and our values also form our beliefs.
But it's when a belief goes against a value that you start
to question it as well. Wow.
Because again, it's, it's, I guess it's that conflict of
something that you've learned and held as a belief.

(29:31):
Yeah, Yeah, that's interesting. What's?
The what's the value? Yeah, values are core and they
are the things that we stick with, like honest, as you say,
honesty and maybe integrity. It might be accountability.
We all have a set of values thatare really important to us.
It's really interesting if you, you know, I listen to a lot of

(29:53):
stuff and I read a lot of stuff about values, but your beliefs
can change. But sometimes beliefs sit with
your values and sometimes your beliefs are not sitting with
your values. So it's time to maybe have a
look at that belief or that's when you start to get, oh, you
know, that's something's you know, and.

(30:14):
So then what's the result of that when your your values and
your beliefs don't align? Well, I think, yeah.
Then you, you really need to look at a belief.
And what about that belief? Is it sitting well with you?
And where did that belief come from and how did it form?
And is it again, is it serving you?
Is it, if that's belief you've got, it's that's self awareness.
I have knowing that I have that belief.

(30:36):
I actually have a belief about that.
Oh, wow, that's not a great belief to have.
So it's it's that inner work. We don't have to, we say to
people, you know, self analysingwill do your heading.
It will make you crazy, but reflecting is excellent.
Reflecting like you're talking to a friend going Craig.
Well, what is that belief? You know, what's you go?

(30:57):
I don't know, my mum and dad said it or, you know, it's, I
don't know. It's just how I've always
thought. Well, if you think
accountability is one of your core values, but you think it's
OK for this to happen and you might go, Oh yeah, that actually
is really. Maybe not then.
Yeah. You think?
You're accountable and yes, please.

(31:19):
Yeah, I'll tell you a little story and it's about how we just
do things. We had a beautiful naturopathic
guy come to a place I worked once and he was doing a talk
about healthy foods and naturopathic stuff.
Lovely, lovely young guy. And he said about how we just
get set in our ways. We just do things automatically.
And he said when he did a roast,a roast lamb, he cut off that

(31:43):
little, is it a little Shank bone, that little funny?
Yeah, yeah, make a lamb and thathe said, cut it off, put it in
the oven. And his wife said to him under
why do you always cut that off? He goes, what do you mean?
She said, why are you cutting that off?
He said, oh, my mum did it, I don't know.
And he went to his mum and he said why did you cut off?

(32:04):
She said, well, you, Oh my mum, her mum did it.
And so they realised, do you know why her mom, her his
grandmother did? It was because the ovens were so
small along, you know, the little grain.
I was like, so in order to get the baking dish in and the tray,
you didn't have much room. So you had to cut that off.

(32:26):
So she had done it for a reason.Her daughter had done it.
Now he was doing it and it was until his wife said, why do you
do that? And he's, he said, oh, I don't
know. And his mum didn't know.
Isn't it gorgeous? I love that story.
And that's. US.
It's a great story. I I always remember that because

(32:47):
of the, it's so true. If somebody said why do you do
that? My mum did it, my dad did it or
I don't know. It's just what I do.
Why? And I guess some of those
behaviours are, they're like tradition.
You're like, you're aware that my mum did it, so I like to do
it. But then like in that example,

(33:07):
there's some things you're not even aware of, you don't even
realise. Oh, that's just something they
did. Wow.
Yes. And it made me look at, you
know, even when I'm cooking, I'mlike, am I just doing it because
it just is something or is therea reason behind it?
So and that goes for lots of things in life.

(33:27):
Again, especially those early learned behaviours, the things
that you when you were first learning about the whole world
from your parents or whoever thethe the influence was that you
just do without thinking. You know, there's it's.
Just. Becomes the second.
I guess that's why it's second nature.
It's not in your natural nature,but it's.

(33:48):
Your second. Mate, things you've learned.
That's. Great to explore it again.
Don't ham yourself, but you can just look at things and go, what
is that about? See, you know, you say you learn
from your parents and your caregivers that, but if you come
from a really dysfunctional childhood and a really crazy,
you know, life, you got to question a lot of things later.

(34:13):
It's even good, I think even if you've had a good upbringing,
which I did, but it's good when you get to, I think I got to
probably, I mean about 19, I first left home, went into the
Army. So I was doing a lot more on my
own independently. And that was when I.
First started to go, oh, OK, well, what what, what do I think

(34:36):
about that or what? Who am I in the world?
Yeah, yeah. It's that whole, you know,
journey of self discovery and where do I think, what do I
think you know? Yeah.
Absolutely. Is individuationally, yeah.
So it's who am I in the world that's right now?
I don't know. And I don't know what do I like?

(34:58):
What would I do? Yeah.
And, and for me, it was the opposite of your experience.
I did not have a good childhood.So I had to really look at how I
was and who I was. And when I had children, that
really challenged my who I was as a parent because I had
nothing but negative to draw upon.

(35:18):
Yeah. So.
It's when you do a lot of a lot of learning, a lot of self
discovery. And so again, that's self
awareness. You're speaking again, Craig.
No, I don't. Know why?
Must be just an Internet thing. I'm just disconnecting and
connecting. Hold that thought.

(35:39):
You have to do a bit of editing here.
I don't know why it keeps it's. It's technology, we'll leave it
in. It's all good.
These things happen. Hang on, where did it come back?
Something sounded like a kick back in then.
Yeah, I disconnected and connected the.
Yeah, so that's right. All of a sudden you go, well,

(36:01):
you know, I don't believe when Idid.
My mother died about 7 years agoand she was interested and I did
her eulogy and I thought I can'tin my circumstances.
Our family was there, we all knew my mum and I couldn't get
up and go what a lovely woman she was and it was all good.
So I did some nonsense stuff which everybody just loved and

(36:24):
related to. But, you know, I talked about
how she taught me many things, you know, and one of my quotes
was, you know, that she said allmen are bastards.
And I said, you know, and they're not necessarily, but
it's, it's, you know, I was sortof saying how she taught me
things in the world, but they were the sort of things.

(36:45):
So obviously I cleared that up along time ago.
But it was a bit of fun at her funeral just to say you know the
things that Mum Mum used to say.Yes.
OK, from strange places. And look, that's such a great
point because I know that where you hear of, let's just say, you
know, examples where people are abusive as adults, it's quite

(37:09):
common for them to have been abused.
Themselves and abused hurt. People hurt that kind of.
Thing hurt people. Hurt and.
Oh yeah. It's a classic, I guess a
classic situation. The people that had that
awareness, which you know, like yourself to go, hey, you know, I
may not have had the best upbringing, but to have that
awareness and go, I'm not going to do the same thing.

(37:32):
I'm not going to repeat those behaviours.
I'm not going to let that. Be I know and you and you know
what's fascinating about that? John talks about the lobsters.
You know, you put them in a bucket, the lobsters, and if one
almost climbs out, the others kind of drag it back down.
I don't know if they're trying to climb on it to get out, but
they inevitably pull the lobsterdown so the nobody can get out.

(37:52):
And my experience with childhoodwas nobody who's in a
dysfunctional, miserable sort oflife wants you to get out of
that bucket. So when you do do anything like
my experience was when I did do anything well or I was, I was, I
was not popular. And I think of the kids it

(38:14):
always, you know, with my children, I think of these kids
from pretty crappy families and they're trying to get it so hard
for them to to move out of that because they're frowned upon.
Like who do you think you? Are, yeah.
It's that mentality. It's like who do you think you
are you think is special? So they they pull them back into
their misery is really loves. Company I was just trying to say

(38:36):
isn't the visionary loves company kind of scenario.
It's crazy. So they're really, it's so
difficult for young children or teenagers to move into a good
healthy headspace or life when Ialways, always remember
thinking. So when I used to go to high
school, I used to say it's like I live on 2 planets.

(38:59):
I live on a really dysfunctionalweird planet at home and when I
go to school I'm expected to live on this entirely different
planet where I'm supposed to be a certain way and act a certain
way and sit in class and listen and did I do my homework and
everything's normal. Couldn't be more removed from
home. So this it's so difficult to

(39:21):
balance the 2 worlds. Do you think that?
Is that a coping mechanism? In what way?
Like of having that that thoughtthat OK, I've got my home life
and then my my non home life. Did that become a bit of a
coping mechanism? Oh, maybe.
So, yeah. I think it was adapting more

(39:42):
than coping. It was like, I have to be a
certain way here because at homeit's just crazy, you know?
I don't. It doesn't make any sense.
And the real world doesn't live in my house.
It's. Yeah, nothing sort of feels like
a real world in my home. Yeah, it's a really bizarre.
It's sort of how I viewed it. I just thought it's like, I'm
yeah, living 2 lives and school is just a normal place where you

(40:07):
go and learn and sit in a classroom and have lunch and
chat to your friends. Yeah, wow.
And so did you find that you kept the knowledge of what may
have happened at home quiet? Did you sort of keep that?
Yeah, there was a few friends that so I had some really close
friends and I had a best friend.I always call her my best

(40:28):
friend, Christine Schwartham, mybest friend through high school
and she's still my beautiful, gorgeous, beautiful friend with
it out there. Christine and she also had so my
formative years were spent in welived in Richmond, in Richmond
Flats. We were fortunate lived in the
the three Storey but pretty crazy that's.
Where my nan was born and grew up in my pop always said dragged

(40:52):
up in the main streets of Richmond.
Absolutely. But you know, it was home and
there were a lot of great thingsabout it.
You're putting a lot of people with a lot of bad things
happening to them all in one spot.
So I think we know how that plays out.
But there were circumstances. That's what had to happen.
But I would pick up Christine onthe way to work every day.

(41:14):
And she didn't live in the flats, but she had also family
trauma. And so it became just this
bizarre. You know, our conversations were
just quite crazy. It's like, yeah, what happened
you last night? I heard this happened.
And yeah, that happened to me. And so we do all this.
We sort of just, it was very normal for us to talk about a

(41:34):
lot of abnormality. And then I remember at school
one day, I was quite nervous because loud noises made me
jump. They actually still do and all
sorts of things. And I remember a teacher came
and smacked his roller down on the desk and said stop talking,
Nancy, that me talking. And he said stop talking and
something and I nearly hit the roof.

(41:55):
I was so distressed by it. And I don't know, I always
wonder, I felt as though he musthave heard part of the
conversation or something later because he really changed.
And I think he got a sense that we had come from pretty
dysfunctional homes because I guess it wasn't in his thoughts

(42:15):
that people just turn up at school, don't they?
Yeah. And I think so.
I just always felt as though he got a sense somehow or he heard
overheard something and he went,oh, these kids are from stuff's
going on. So he was really different after
that. But I had Christine, which was
which was great. And yes, crazy stuff.

(42:37):
Was it kind of a baptism of fire?
Thing gone again. Hang on.
Just connect and reconnect. I know what we can do.
I think it's just the Internet. They have to fix that Internet.

(43:01):
Can you hear me? Yeah, I can hear you.
Can you hear me? Hear you.
It's kicking back in now. Hang on.
Sorry, I don't know why. How's that?
Yeah, you hear me? Yeah, well, sorry about that.
Cool, I was just saying I wonderif it was like a baptism of fire

(43:21):
thing that made you so close because you'd both been through
that similar shit. Oh, yeah, yeah, You just do.
And you just do. And it was normal.
Just there was nothing. You didn't have to hold back.
You'd say this happened and thathappened.
The weirdest things would happen, but you could just say.
And it was a bit, you know, we used to laugh.

(43:42):
We'd like, oh, this happened to me and that happened to me.
It was like, it just, this placeis crazy.
What is, what is this where what's happening?
It's like, who throws a shoe? That's my childhood.
Like, who throws a shoe? Who does that?
Yeah. I've started to write a book
about my childhood, you know, many years ago, and I've got to
finish it. But so much of it was like, who

(44:03):
does that? Like what was that?
Yeah, what the? Hell, was that about?
That could be your working title.
What the hell was that about? What the hell was that?
Who throws a shoe? Why?
Yeah, it's pretty interesting. It's it's so that's that's a big
part of stuff. And I guess that is something

(44:23):
that because you such a large part of your life is dedicated
to helping others and to healingthat that's obviously, well, not
obviously that's probably a large part of where it's come
from. It's that I've been absolutely.
I would love to not see these things happen to others.

(44:44):
If I can help someone to heal things a lot quicker, and I
needed a lot of healing. I need a lot of, I needed to
work through a lot of things because, yeah, you tend to go
out and statistically things happen for you when you've come
from a dysfunctional childhood. So I wanted always to not live
the same life. Yeah.

(45:06):
And they were, they were troubled.
They were challenged. It was crazy.
And they were stuck. In their.
In their. Life, but I didn't, I didn't
want more of that. So I worked really hard to
overcome a lot of a lot of things.
And I, and as you say, I want tosay to you, if you're work,
you've got to work on stuff and you can make changes.

(45:27):
I'll say it's magic and it's miracle and it's easy, but you
can make changes. You don't have to be stuck with.
You know, that's my lot. That's my lot in life.
That's the hand I was dealt. Yeah.
And often, as we did mention a little bit earlier, like often
that is really, really hard to to look at yourself, to look
inwards and to to start to pull some of those things apart,

(45:49):
especially if it has been sort of childhood trauma, early
traumatic events. Yes.
To, to revisit that, you know, that's, that's really how it's,
it's that I guess it's that kindof saying of ripping off the old
scabs, ripping off the, you know, the old wounds.
You happen to revisit a lot of that early trauma, but you kind

(46:13):
of, I guess, I don't know, I guess you have to to be able to,
to. Fix.
Things. And you, you have to want to do
something about it. I think sitting going, that's
just how it is, is about the worst thing you can do.
Well, that's just how it is. You know, I recently saw a, a
client who has been upset about a particular thing, shall we

(46:36):
say, for about 16 years and hasn't sought help.
And I saw her recently and that's enormous and huge to come
and go. I need to do something enormous.
And you know, we talk about those insights and when you
start to explore things and I, it doesn't have to be all ugly

(46:57):
and digging and horrible, but just some stuff.
And I'm not, I don't think I'm talking out of school, but I
said, she came back with things and I said, is that new?
Did you know that? And she said, I did not know
that about me. And that's that self awareness
and some insights. And then you go, oh, that's what
happens. Wow, so it's just sort of, and
then, you know, you can dig. So I can dig in fairly deep and

(47:23):
nearly always what always it is the childhood, you know, the
wounds of the child, the childhood.
So if you can, and I do a lot ofthe inner child work.
And so if you can just, and that's, you know, you might do
one session that's really deep and it might really bring up
some fantastic, fantastic results.

(47:44):
So I don't want to dig into the people's miseries week after
week, But when the more you understand too about how it
plays out, the more the more youunderstand it.
Like I understand my first marriage, I go, I know exactly
why I would have married that person and why that person would
have married me and why it didn't work such as he did, she

(48:05):
did, I did. It's like, I get why I get
exactly why I would have gone into that.
And the biggest reason for everybody is that they're trying
to heal the childhood wounds. And so we go into circumstances
because the psyche wants that healed.
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's a saying, but I know that from

(48:29):
talking to you previously you've, you know, you've
mentioned like people's shadow behaviours and those kinds of
things. That's a.
That's a ribber. It's a ribber.
Yeah, yeah. And these are things, I call
them blueprints. I don't know, I I wish I had a
better name, but there are some fantastic blueprints.

(48:51):
And if you go, I understand thatnow.
So if this is happening again, just just reflecting.
You don't have to get digging and crazy because just it's hard
work. But if you can go, well, I know
that that must be because. So that's really interesting.
So what is happening? Oh, OK.
It's my shadow, you know, OK, you know, or oh, it's because,

(49:18):
so there's a bit, maybe half a dozen.
I'm just going to plan a workshop actually very soon just
up here where I live and just people to come in and just go
through some of these beautiful blueprints.
If I can give them the, I call them gold Nuggets, if you can.
Here's some stuff and they go, OK, something's going on for me.
I can use one of those tools. I can understand.

(49:42):
Firstly, I can understand what'shappening, secondly, do
something about it. How good?
And I guess the great thing withthose workshops is, firstly,
you're creating that safe space for people.
And it's not like the one on onewhere you're really digging
down, you know? But yeah, just like you say, to
be able to give people some general kind of yeah, skills or

(50:05):
some knowledge where they can go.
Oh. Yeah.
I didn't even. I wasn't even aware that there
were things without. Even looking such a.
Thing is, I wasn't even aware that that concept.
And so you're starting to trigger people's new journeys.
Well, you're educating people, yeah.
And on my website I've got, you know, you don't know something

(50:27):
until you learn it. And you don't, you know, exactly
like you said, you don't know itexists.
You don't know shadow exists. You don't know how that plays
out. You know, you don't know what's
a thing, but when you do and youcan go, let me see if I could do
some work with that. My God, you can make changes in
your life. Yeah, yeah.
It's fascinating. It's those without knowing a lot

(50:49):
about it, it's those neurological pathways, it's
those new pathways in your brainwhere.
You. Did the same thing, but then
something that you learn or something you've seen or heard
for the first time and it creates that new pathway and
you're like. Wow.
And something like, you know, they've, they've got those
studies where it actually lightsup in your brain and it's a new

(51:10):
pathway. It's exactly that.
It's that Oh my God, wow, that's.
But it's also for me, I was like, oh, fantastic, how good's
this? I've got something, I've got
something tangible. I can go, oh, that's something.
So that's what I can now go. Is that why that happens?
What can I do about it? Or do I just go, well, that's

(51:32):
just my lot or like, oh, that's happening because so it's
growth, it's personal growth. You should be doing it forever
and only if you want better. Some people love stuck, being
stuck and locked in victim. That's the hugest thing.
People are locked, trapped, locked and they will not budget
out of victim. They identify with it so

(51:53):
strongly. And I know all the training I
had through Sam play was our greatest gift to our client is
to get them out of victim A. Great.
I remember visiting your office years ago with Michelle and
seeing your Sam play set up something I'd never heard of

(52:13):
prior to that. That was literally the first
time I'd ever seen or heard of it.
So for people that have never heard of Sam, play of this this
concept. Of.
Sam play. Tell us all about it.
Well, I think Sam play is also like art therapy, which I do as
well, and I can work without those things too.
But it's your unconscious on display.

(52:35):
So all of our thoughts and memories are in images.
All of it dreams are in images. And so we don't so that.
So sand play. And this is where I struggled in
the early years because I've been doing this for about 18
years. And it was really frustrating
because people had no clue what sand play through it was.
And it's so profound. It is so fantastic.

(52:58):
And they would say, oh, do I, soI'm going to have to sit in the
sand. So no, you are not going to sit
in the sand. So it's been around for about
for about 70 years, followed on from some people who invented
play therapy and then mainly forchildren.
But really the gift is working with adults.
It's absolutely beautiful. I love it.

(53:20):
Love working with kids too. So it has become more and more
more known. So you'll have a room and you'll
have a tray that's a certain size and it's got sand in it and
technically or usually painted with a blue bottom sides to
represent water, put sand in it.Sand, of course, is movable and
the only constant in our life ischange.

(53:40):
So sand is change and movement. And then you have figurines.
We call them figurines or symbols.
They're never toys and so everything as I'm going on and
on here a bit, but you asked so everything.
Yeah, yeah. 'Cause people, people that
aren't aware, it's it, it's. Something.
They may be hearing for the first time, so yeah.
Oh, that's true. Yeah.

(54:01):
So everything on the on the planet and I think in the entire
universe is about energy. So everything has an energetic
component to it. Everything is energy.
So all the pieces. So you might work.
So as in a Sam play therapy, theway I work, there are different
therapists and this is the way Iwas trained and that I love

(54:22):
working. It's called active Sam play.
So it's very directive and interactive.
There are. Ones that.
Stands or I think is very it's about being silent.
I just work differently, but it suits that modality suits me.
And so you'll, you'll get the the biggest thing is to get the
person out of their stories out of their stories at it, because

(54:43):
all the stories are the same. If you hear somebody, I'm
bullied here and I'm bullied there and I'm bullied over work
on them, bullied at the netball on them, bullied here.
So it's the same story. And you could sit there and
listen to their stories until the cows come home, but you're
not helping them. You're not helping them to to
fix any or sort anything. So you get them as soon as you
can. You're kind of dropping them
into their their body feeling. We talked about body, we talked

(55:06):
about feelings. And so once you get them in
there, you could get them maybe to a place where they're kind of
really quite settled and they'vegot a feeling.
So then you might say, let's do a sand play around that.
And you're very silent then while they go to the shelves and
just choose the pieces and they pick pieces, they put them in
the tray wherever however they want and you check in do you

(55:29):
need any more and all that sort of stuff.
And then you would start the session with basically how how
you're feeling when you look at in the tray and you'll move on
from there. So two things happen.
One, is it placement in the trays really, really
interesting. Shadow is very big.
We talked about shadow, you'll call your shadow work.

(55:53):
And that work I do is very Jungian based.
So there will be conflicts, placement, contradictions,
shadow stories will play out. There could be, there's a
myriad, a million different things that could happen in the
tray physically, but also with the person.
And sometimes I've talked about the one piece and then gone into

(56:15):
process with a person and completely not gone back to the
tray. We just worked deep to get that
because it might trigger someone.
The psyche wants to heal the psyche.
They're there because the psychewants to heal and it's presented
and their psyche has put it in the tray because it wants to be
worked on, wants to be healed. So even right back to what they

(56:39):
actually chose off the shelf, what they put down.
Yeah, and they have no clue they're going.
I don't know why I put that there.
And that's the head. It doesn't matter why.
And what if I put this piece butyou didn't?
And quite often, even though thepieces are relevant, they can be
completely irrelevant. Like I said, one piece.
And then we're going into a beautiful process where you get

(57:02):
into how something really originated and and you're trying
to change that. Yeah, wow.
It. Must be really fascinating to
see it play out and to to. Work.
With love it, love it and love when.
I always, always feel very humbled that I can go through

(57:25):
that process. But when they make a shift, it
is so beautiful. Yeah, it's really, really
beautiful process when they are courageous enough to have a
little dig and you just go in and I'm very gentle, you know,
I'm. But I'm directive I'm, it's, I'm
there for them. So it's no use pussyfooting
around for the want of a better word.

(57:45):
I want to help them to have a quick sort of outcome and.
It is a beautiful. Thing people who have so it it,
that's the work. It is so beautiful and kids,
kids are completely different when the kids they are very
different they and so when an adult doesn't they put their

(58:06):
pieces and they don't move them.OK, explore we, we do things
they're in and they're set. But children, their little
psyche is different again and itmoves around the tray.
So they will learn resilience and problem solving because they
can be in controlling the tray. So they will move things and
they will put things here and they will.
And if you say to them, it's. Just.

(58:27):
Brilliant, you might say. Them might see a piece big
monster behind them go. Oh.
That piece, No, that piece, I know as I say, a lot of people
work very silently. I don't, you know, oh, is this
piece know that that one's over there.
And immediately they answer you.Oh yeah, he knows, but he's his
friend or yeah, he's come in andhe's going to get him in a
minute anyway. And they've got this whole and

(58:48):
how girls, boys, trays of like polo UPS.
It's usually it's fascinating. So they then can, yeah, Psyche
is healing within the tray. It's like making their own world
and solutions and fixing things and sorting things and it's
pretty fantastic. And then you can see how that
story plays out and how it relates to whatever the

(59:10):
particular thing. Yeah.
Yes. Because people think their kids
come in and talk about their family and I've had very, very,
very, very few kids that have actually mentioned their family.
It's just their world. And so you, they're not saying
my mum did this or my dad did this.

(59:31):
A story I think it's OK to tell.A lady had a a little girl and
she had a a baby that then died of cut death, which was, you
know, I could barely not have a lump in my throat thinking about
she bought the girl to me. But the girl put in a baby in

(59:53):
her first maybe half a dozen trays.
She put in a baby. The baby was always naughty,
naughty getting a nice cup of tea handed to me.
So the baby was always naughty. And if you think about that
little girl's psyche, this baby has.
This extraordinarily dreadful thing that's happened has

(01:00:16):
created problems in the home. Mum's not happy anymore, Dad's
not happy anymore things so her she was putting it in the tray
but the baby was naughty. And then after several weeks,
the baby either didn't come in or the baby was really having
fun and playing, and the whole psyche of this little girl

(01:00:37):
shifted. But she needed to.
Her psyche needed to do that. So that makes sense.
And how old was this girl at this stage?
She was about 5. OK, right.
Yeah, and they. 'D had another baby so yeah,
that was, you know, really, really difficult for everybody.

(01:00:59):
I, I can't imagine. And they were doing a brilliant,
brilliant, brilliant, brilliant job.
And the little girl was absolutely gorgeous.
But it was fascinating because we don't think, I mean, they've
got to go through a lot. Everybody had to go through a
lot. And creditor appearance, the
parents that bring them, I've got nothing but absolute praise

(01:01:20):
for that. They're wise enough and caring
enough and wonderful enough to bring these beautiful kids to
me. Not a big child.
He's bought from the parents. It's maybe through departments,
but those parents are just gorgeous.
And she was just beautiful and she really shifted, made big
shifts, that little girl. So.
How beautiful and healing is that?

(01:01:42):
Yeah, that's amazing. And for someone like me that is
not a healer, has never been a healer, but I can have an
appreciation of what that must feel like.
I mean, obviously for the peoplethat you're helping, it's it's
miraculous, but even for you to be able.
To. Facilitate that to be a part of

(01:02:02):
that, that must be just an that's.
So much. Beautiful.
Incredible feeling. It is it's very sometimes it's
very humbling, as when you work with an adult tends to be very
humbling and very privileged. And with the kids, it's just
beautiful. You just, and their parents say
things, you know, they're changing.
And so it's it's a gift. It's an absolute gift and love.

(01:02:26):
I can do that. Absolutely.
You know, it's really hard. It also pulls on my childhood
and it's stuff I've had to work on.
When you do get the children from departments and they're
belonging to some pretty dysfunctional families.
I just wish the departments would fund the parents because
they need help, they need support, they need work because

(01:02:47):
it perpetuates. Of course they're in an awful
relationship or they've been in awful relationships.
Usually it's the mums that come that are.
Being. Gone through like a domestic
violence and they come through organisations that are
supporting them. But.
They said that they fund the children and of course.

(01:03:07):
The parents can't abroad. These things, but you just wish
they would fund with the mums and all that sort of thing
because it comes back to those beliefs and what's, what's the
child picking up and what are they?
Because the mums don't understand that they also can
heal. I think they're just, they're
locked in victim, you know, not consciously, not in a bad way,

(01:03:31):
not not a mean way, but they're locked in victim because that's
what they've known. Yeah.
Yeah, Crazy things. It's pretty.
It's beautiful. Yeah.
All that work is just beautiful.Love it.
But you can do it without portray.
You can just push, put people into this beautiful process.
Art therapy is another one. And.
Yeah, tell us about the art therapy.
I honestly don't know. Anything about really great also

(01:03:54):
and I I learned some art therapybefore I learned sand play
therapy. So it's also a bit like putting
people get into the feelings anddoing some artwork and yeah,
they then you explore with them.You don't go.
What do you make of that? So when you say art, do you
first? Oh, it's.

(01:04:15):
Media works best for them. Do you like?
Do you prefer to paint you? Yes, I have all sorts of
materials. And you firstly consciously when
you're in your talking place say, look, there's materials
there. When we finish the process,
you'll move over to that table and you just move into that.
You, you create whatever. I think if it's two black lines,
use the paints, use the pastels.Some people if they've got a

(01:04:37):
good studio setup, we use, you know, clay and all that sort of
thing and say just don't think about it.
Stay out of your thinking, stay in your feelings and just just
let that just pour out into justexpress it.
It's a, it's a representation ofyour feelings.
And when I do group group, I always say to them, we are not

(01:04:57):
going to have an art exhibition at the end of this.
OK, that's right. Not about art, there'll be no.
Prizes. There'll be no prizes.
Nobody gets surprised, not everybody.
So I don't, not about art, not about creating a piece of
artwork. It's about a representation of
your feelings. So they will then do that.

(01:05:19):
And again, in that process, I'm very silent, put on some music,
let them just as long as they like.
And so I just check in and say, let me know when you're
finished. You can usually tell or they'll
look at you and say, I'm finished.
And then you might just explore things.
And you don't interpret it like you see a big black crayon, you
know, go, oh, what happened there?
That doesn't look good. Because that might be their

(01:05:40):
happy place or whatever reason might be the quiet place they
go, you know, and they're happy there.
So you might say, oh, you know, maybe something like, tell me
about this. What was happening up here?
So you just start to explore things and you again, you're
moving into their feelings and you exploit.
They're getting insights. It's raising their self

(01:06:00):
awareness. They will often say, oh, when I
did that, you must say, how do you feel about this picture that
opens up everything straight away.
There they might go. I'm feeling really nervous.
Oh, what's what are you nervous about?
Well, I don't know why I or theymight go.
I'm feeling stressed. I don't like this bit up here.
And then so you're just sort of moving them into this

(01:06:22):
unconscious process. Yeah, wow.
Making sense and and again you just.
How does it relate in both examples?
So both with the the Sam play and the art therapy, how do they
relate to storytelling? Is that kind of what the people
are doing? Are they using the medium to
tell their story? It's a it's, it's hard to say,

(01:06:48):
tell a story. Like because it's their story
and they, it just strikes me that like, I mean, traditionally
you see on TV in the movies, which is, you know, pure fact,
of course, but you see where, you know, the classic
psychologist, how does that makeyou feel?
So it's like, OK, you as an adult, this thing happened.
How did that make you feel? And then there's all the kind of

(01:07:10):
barriers and that sort of thing.It just strikes me that it's
perhaps using the same play or the art therapy for them to
because I I'm conscious that youwere saying about, you know,
their feelings going into the feelings.
How is it about how what their story is they're using the the
the art therapy or the Sam play to tell their?

(01:07:33):
Unconscious wants to tell the story.
Their unconscious, their conscious mind.
You could never sit there consciously and say to them, how
do you feel about that? What happened there?
Like, oh, you know, more problems, more problems.
And yeah, I went to work and he said this and she said that.
And, you know, that's pretty awful.
What happened next are this. And so you're not help.
You're not fixing anything. You're not.
Kind of sort of fixed. But this if it's in Sam play or

(01:07:56):
or art therapy, if it's expressed in either modalities,
their psyche wants to wants it healed, wants it worked on.
So and the what I love, I'll tell you what I've really loved
is when people cover up or lie, they don't mean to, but they'll
go, you know, you've got this really overbearing piece and and
they've identified maybe that they're feeling like this piece

(01:08:17):
here and you go, oh, you know, how's that feeling?
No, they're really good friends.Maybe I don't think so.
I love it. You can go.
You're not saying that. Oh, yeah, no, we're really, you
know, so if I look at this pieceand it's huge and it's menacing
and you're carrying in the corner.
Oh, oh, and then you might say something like, who does that

(01:08:40):
remind you of Bang? You got your person and you got
your issue and they're like, oh,and you can they just drop into
this, this fantastic insight. So their story is not a
conscious story. No, no.
And that's I guess the idea behind it.
It's. Absolutely, because the

(01:09:01):
conscious stories develop. No, they're friends.
They're great. I don't think so.
Or like there's, you know, skeleton and they're going to
swim and you go, really, I love it because you can have fun with
it. I mean, humour's brilliant.
I can go, the skeleton is going to swim that across that river.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Really. I don't.
That would be difficult, wouldn't it?
Oh, and they go, yeah, no, they can't because they get it.

(01:09:23):
They're like, no, they can't. So you're stuck.
They can't get to where they want to go.
But what fantastic insight. Yeah.
All of a sudden they're dropped into, oh, it's a story, a story
I'm making up. I'm going to just swim over
there or, you know, you've got aboat in the sand and it's, you
know where you're going. Oh, we're going to in the sand.
It's stuck. You know.

(01:09:44):
It's yeah, it's really, I mean, there's people who know 1000
million trillion times more thanme that are highly qualified in,
you know, degrees and and on andon with the whole Jungian.
But even what I've learned and what I work with is just so
exciting. So good, so cool.
Ah, it is just, you know, I mean, and, and just to even see

(01:10:08):
how you light up every time thatyou talk about it.
And I remember the first time, as I say, visiting your offices,
Michelle and I just popped in one day to see you and you were
showing us around and I saw the sand play and you had all of
the, the rows of shells with, you know, different, different
objects that that they could choose from.
And I was just fascinating. Like absolutely fascinating.

(01:10:32):
When I first started, we did a little, a little process just
with a group that I went into a community house and I said, let
me show people that Sam play. Pardon me, I did this little
example, what you call it, the words gone, the words they're
going. And I took in sand with about
maybe 8 different dogs and I putthem all in the sand.

(01:10:55):
And I talked to people about Samplay for a little bit and I
said, let's have some fun. And I said, just put your hand
in and just get 1. And so I've been taught this in
the early stages of Sam play that how you resonate, how
there's an energy with these pieces.
I was going to say before when you tell people to choose, they
go which ones you know, and you do the talking before you put.

(01:11:16):
Them in the. Process and you say if you see a
piece and it caused, you put it in the tray wherever you want.
However you see a piece that calls to you and you don't like
it, still choose it. Pieces tend to still choose it.
I actually saw somebody do that recently that you know, is that
calling to you? Because I thought.

(01:11:37):
They're just wandering. Up, yeah.
Said, Oh, it was what, you know,they weren't doing in the same
trip, another piece. So this fantastic energy you
have and how they, because if there's a fantastic book, I'm
trying to think it was this particular guy that I read and

(01:11:57):
he said, you know, when you see an image or a symbol, the amount
of memories that come back with a single image.
I mean, you're only going to look at a photograph or.
Or. Or something or C something
happened when I was a kid. Hang, you're right in all these
memories. So these things, they bring up a
myriad of memories. So yeah, we did the dogs and

(01:12:20):
they all picked 1. And I'm saying, OK, we had a few
questions all planned of my early days.
And you know, how do you feel about that dog?
Well, it's nice. Nice dog.
Or Oh, hate this dog. It's so fabulous.
It's an ugly, bloody thing. I know.
I picked this one. OK, let's yeah.
My ex husband, he's a bastard. Yeah.

(01:12:41):
Reminds me of him. I go wow.
And they go, Oh my God, they're looking around going.
I can't believe that's come up. So there was some fabulous
things that came out. Or, you know, what are some of
the things you would say about this dog?
Oh, it looks, it looks serious. It looks stern.
It looks this, it looks this. Does it remind you of anyone?
Oh, my teacher at school that I hated.

(01:13:03):
Oh, I still feel bad about the, you know, it's crazy stuff.
So that was fantastic. And one lady, I said, do you
want to look at this a bit deeper?
Are you comfortable in the group?
And she did. And she had these enormous
insights from a random dog out of eight that she picked in the
sand. The universe works in mysterious
ways. You know, if the psyche wants to

(01:13:27):
heal something, you know it's presented.
And I guess it's that kind of thing, you know, stepping back,
looking at life generally, it's that whole thing of just showing
up just by being there and beingopen to the process.
You don't have to throw yourselfwholeheartedly into it because
that's kind. Of.
To facilitate. That.

(01:13:47):
Just showing up is half the battle, you know, just being
open to the the possibility and taking that first step.
It's and it's intention. Intention sets everything in
place. It is absolutely everything
where intention goes, you know, energy flows.
So if they intend to come and work on something because they'd
like it to be different, that's enormous.
That's an enormous start. They intend to look at things

(01:14:12):
because they'd like something different.
It's not good how it is. Just scratch my ear.
Here we go. So yeah, it's intention.
Intention is huge. If you know what's your intent
when you're talking to someone, what's your intent when you go?

(01:14:33):
What's your intention when? You.
Get a new staff member at work. Is it just so somebody will sit
in that chair? Is it so you'll have another
person you know? What's your intention?
And it helps us to understand each other better, you know,
generally us as humans just to know, you know, like you think,
oh, why have they done that? And then you find out the

(01:14:53):
intention behind it. Oh, look, it was actually coming
from a good place, you know? And then that that changes your
whole perspective or your perception of that thing
completely. It flips it around because
you're like, oh. Yes.
I kind of thought maybe it was coming from a bad place, but
you're actually coming from a really good place.
Bang that whole story. Give it a minute.

(01:15:16):
Yeah. And that was sort of a gift in
itself. My mother was the first one.
As in. Oh.
They said this, they're awful. I hate their guts.
She was so quick to hate people,and I mean hate.
That's a strong word. But to hate somebody for
something or to or to disregard a person or if they said the end
and and I call it a gift becausefor whatever reason, I'm sort of

(01:15:40):
that's, you know, exactly what you just said.
That's an why would they have done that?
I don't go, you know, they're all assholes.
And who says that? And they go stuff themselves.
OK, that's huh. They wouldn't.
Oh, necessarily. I know they go.
Well, they wouldn't have meant it offensively.
Funny thing to say. They're either misunderstood or
so I try to give every. I guess it's the benefit of the

(01:16:01):
doubt, but I look behind the words or the action and go
something's going on. Yeah.
I mean, you know, because quite nearly always there is so so
nearly always it's something else was happening.
And I know different genders respond to to different things
in different ways, but I know like, even even with Michelle

(01:16:24):
and I, you know, I'll, you know,I can't believe that happened,
this happened or someone did this or said that.
But Michelle will go straight. Yeah.
And Michelle is really good at looking at the other.
Is this kind of an empathy? She's very good at empathy and
everything from the other perspective.
So she'll be like, look, this has probably been because of
this or they've probably tried to do this or they've thought

(01:16:47):
that or they've wanted to do this.
And I'll be like. Oh.
I didn't think of that and it itis, it's just such a shit.
And if you can do that naturally, you know, with some
people are are better than others act, but just having that
awareness of going OK, well, what if it is not that thing
that I jump straight to, you know?

(01:17:10):
And that's different. It's between reacting and
responding. Reactions are all about, you
know, immediate reaction and they're triggering and they're
bringing things up. But if you stop and you do what
you did and you think about it, then you're responding very
differently. And people can get out of
reacting, you know, an immediatereaction like, you know.

(01:17:30):
Move. Or, you know, another story.
Another story. I've got stories years back.
I love stories. I've got a few, just a few, but
I was in the supermarket and I was waiting to be served and the
lady had finished. The cashier had finished with
the lady before me. That's pretty much, you know,
they're always like, how are you?
How's your day? How are you going?
They're so lovely. And she was silent.

(01:17:52):
You ignored me. She didn't look at me.
And I'm putting all these gross out of there.
She's a bit shitty, isn't she? What's wrong with her today?
You know it's getting all in my look at her.
What's wrong with her? Shouldn't even be a cashew if
she's going to be this crappy. But I was.
Thinking, you know, I'm putting them all out.
And she looked up. She said, oh God, hello, sorry.

(01:18:13):
She said I was miles away then thinking about something else.
How are you today? And I thought, shame on me.
What a terrific example, how ourminds can just, you know, what a
what a beach I'm thinking. Yeah, and, and I mean it, it is,
I guess, commonplace for us to make it about us.

(01:18:33):
I mean, we are the centre of ourown universe.
It's our own universe, Yeah. Except unlike the Craig Gryphon
universe, where it's about everyone else, that's.
That's a. Different.
That's a different. But it's that's our natural
reaction is to go, well, why have they done this to me?
Should you even be in hospitality or should you even
be working and they're. Like wrong.

(01:18:56):
One Wow. Hey, sorry, I was you're like,
oh, OK. Naughty.
Naughty, you mean? What a great and that in.
Itself is a gift. What a great gift.
I learned from that. I thought that's a fabulous
lesson. Thanks, Universe.
Yeah, thanks. Something that was great, I
think listen there. I'll share that on a podcast one
day. Exactly, you should do that I'm.

(01:19:20):
Hung up with all that? In austerousness, someone may
just hear that exact point, go off to the shops tomorrow, that
exact thing or a similar thing happens and they go that.
What? Did he?
Said that reminds me of exactly what Sharon said.
I'm not going to make this all about me.
What does it change? To me.

(01:19:41):
How good if we can go, maybe this particular person that's
serving me at the restaurant or,you know, at the shop has
something going on or, you know,they have a stiff family member
or they've got something. Said something bad.
They've just had a big fire. They've lost someone that they
love dear to them. Brother, sister, sibling,

(01:20:03):
parent. You don't know what's happened
to people, so just treat them kindly and move on.
I mean, I'm assertive. I don't like I wait.
We have to be treated poorly on purpose and, you know, reality.
I'll certainly be a different person then.
But sometimes you just go, just let them be.
You know something's happened for them.
And if you. Just think about that and be a
bit more more empathetic. You go, yeah, that's that's

(01:20:27):
what's. And sometimes it is absolutely
nothing to do with us whatsoever.
It could be like I, I always remember, you know, back in my
early days of being an actor doing auditions and going, Oh my
God, how did I not get that part?
You know, and then you start to make it all about you, You know,

(01:20:49):
it's like I'm like, what do theythink I'm not good enough?
What the fuck's wrong with them out?
Dare they, you know, fucking like and you.
And then I remember hearing somebody talk about the millions
of reasons why you may not have got the part.
It could just be that you didn'tfit that character.

(01:21:09):
You know, it's a very practical reason.
You didn't fit that particular character.
You are not the of what they thought that role.
Was. But it could be beyond that.
It could be because you wore a red sweater and they fucking
hate red sweaters. You might look exactly like.

(01:21:30):
Or women in red gardens. You know, they're all evil.
Lady, you might remind them of their you know, their childhood
bully or their next door neighbour who was really mean to
them. You know there could be a
million billion tree and think it could be the shirt you wore.
It could be, you know, any number of things, there's

(01:21:51):
nothing to do with you, but you kind of just default to going,
oh, it's it's me. Yeah.
And that helped me incredibly when I was doing these auditions
and not getting the part. It's like, well, it could be
really simple that like you remind them of their ex husband
and ex wife. You wore the particular colour

(01:22:13):
of shirt or you know any number of things that are totally
nothing to do with you. You can have no control over
you. Oh, and it's so, so, so, so
true. Yeah, yeah.
And it's like, it's funny when Iused to do resumes years back
for jobs and people go, you don't put your age on.
I go and put my age on. If they want a 20 year old, I
don't know their workplace. If they want a young hip 20 year

(01:22:35):
old for their front reception and I write, let's say I wrote
when I was 45 or 50, let's just say then they don't want me.
Why waste their time? Why waste mine?
Why make me go to an interview that I get don't get the job and
go what's wrong with me? So I always do.
I figure just just get real. It's not always about you.
It's if they want, if they want,you know, they might want

(01:22:57):
somebody really timid, somebody assertive, Something, something,
something want somebody fits into this and I'm not it.
I'm not going to get the job. So especially for the age, is it
because? Some people.
Don't want I'm mature for this job or they want a, somebody
said years of experience and whatnot, some refresh out of
school. Well, if I don't put my age on
there, they're getting so much fresh out of school.

(01:23:17):
I walk into the interview and I go, whoa, oh, I know.
Thank you. Or would be the opposite.
They go, oh look, thank God we thought you were 19 and straight
out of school. Thank God we want someone that
you know, has a certain amount of life experience that they can
bring to the world. Exactly.
They're so right. It's not about us.

(01:23:38):
We think it's about us. Which again, it just comes back
to that, you know, authenticity and being genuine and being you.
And if you don't fucking like a tough luck, you know, it's like
it's better for you, it's betterfor them.
It's like, you know, this is where we're at and it doesn't
work. Just being real and how things
are. Don't always have to be how

(01:23:59):
things are, you know? But yeah, be real, I'm not
offended. If they want a 20 old, that's
their prerogative at work to want a young hip 20 year old at
the front desk. Why would they want me if that's
what they want? You know, that's, that's fair
and they should get what they want.
That's their prerogative. Yeah, in a strange, a strange

(01:24:20):
but related way, that's exactly the reason why I've chosen to do
the long form of podcast rather than the short.
Because I remember hearing abouthow, like in a podcast or an
interview, the longer it is, theless chance there is of people
covering up who they are or pretending to be someone else or

(01:24:41):
not showing the full part of themselves.
You just did this with your mouth.
You just went, I mean, back to what?
Really. I'm not.
Thinking God, I'm really real. I struggle to behave or to be.
Coming back to our very first opening conversation of body,
body language, you're. Like it's so great, isn't it?

(01:25:05):
Like real And it's who I am. It's I struggle to hide.
That's. Good.
I mean that, you know, that's part of being open, but you
know, that's, that's something that I remember thinking that's
a great thing about a longer podcast.
Anyone could be someone else for1015 minutes, but for an hour or

(01:25:25):
two hours or three hours, it gets harder and harder and
harder. So you can start to really find
out more about people and and who they are and what they're
about, which is what you call it.
I love it. Yeah, sure, Claudia.
Oh, is that the? Time oh that's great I think

(01:25:52):
it's terrific and I'm really happy that I'm on here and you
know it's great I'm. Happy you're on here too.
The, I think you're definitely one of those guests that I would
love to have back on because there's so many different things
that you can teach people about.Yeah, knowing, knowing you, you

(01:26:12):
have so many different facets ofwho you are.
And there is a central theme. A lot of it is about, you know,
healing and and helping people. And then that's manifested
itself in different ways, whether it is Sam play or as a
teacher, as a coach, you know, and it's the the central theme
is, is that that sort of giving and and service and, and giving

(01:26:35):
back to people. But it's it's fascinating how
those things. My talking emit he's saying
goodbye hit connect again hold on and I can still hear you it's
so true it's I think you've got to have oh I was talking
recently I've got an older sister who we I have a laugh

(01:26:55):
because she's so steady and she does what she does and she's
been doing it for a long time and she's a beautiful beautiful
woman saying that in case she listens no she.
She's and. And when she I tell her I'm
doing this and I'm doing that now, I think she sort of shakes
a bit internally and says, oh, and I think we're so different.

(01:27:19):
We are so different. I love a challenge, I love
something new. I love to explore things, learn
things, do things, try things. If they don't work, try them
again. Yeah, I think pussy worries a
bit about me, but her her life is she does what she does so
beautifully and she has done things very long term and loves

(01:27:41):
that. And he's, you know, a a lovely,
beautiful woman who she's my gorgeous sister.
But we're like chalk and cheese.And yeah, it's funny because I,
I was going to say before when you said about us, it's so funny
when you say about it being us. I remember a while back I had a
break from different things. I thought I'll open a shop
because it's again, it's seeing people and enjoying.
I think it was COVID and I thought, I think it was must

(01:28:05):
have been during or before COVIDor something, because COVID was
a part of it. And so I opened a shop, but
people would be coming. They're going to be, oh, oh God,
you're going to have to get shelves over here.
Oh, you're going to have to put all your stocking and they're
exhausted. And I'm like, yeah, you don't
have to. Like.

(01:28:26):
You can see them thinking, oh God, if I had to do this.
If it was, if it was me, yeah. It was me.
Wow. I'm tired thinking I said, oh
that's OK, I could put the shelves in and you know, I'll
put the I'll get the stock. It's part of a shop is and like,
oh, and you're going to have to,are you going to have to do
this? And I'm going, yeah, yeah, no,
that's part of it. But they were ex they were

(01:28:47):
standing in front of me exhausted because they're going,
oh, I don't know, you could do it.
And I thought, well, you couldn't do, you're tired and
you don't want to do it. You're older or younger, you're
just not interested, but you're not doing it.
But they immediately associated it with themselves.
I really did get a bit of a giggle out of that.

(01:29:09):
Yeah, that's fascinating. And look, there's two sides to
that. One, if it's not something you
love or are passionate about or are inspired to do, it becomes
harder straight away because it's something you have to do.
To to make. That happen I if I had to set up
a shop, I'd have to do this and this and this and this.

(01:29:30):
That's one side to the coin. The other side of the coin is I
think there's a tendency for some people to stack obstacles
up anyway to default to that. Oh my God, what you did?
There's this, there's that, there's this, there's that.
Whereas just having that mindsetof going, well, fuck it, like

(01:29:51):
just jump in. We'll give it a crack.
Yeah, yeah, you gotta do that. Yeah.
And if it works, you know, there's the best saying ever.
You know, the only thing worse than failing is not trying.
Yeah. And that's for me.
Maybe for some people trying andfailing is so much worse than
never trying. But for me, no.

(01:30:12):
But I've tried. It's long.
Yeah. Seriously, get in there.
As you know, I'm a big fan of Gary Vee, Gary Vaynerchuk.
One of the big things he constantly talks about is is.
The. The 95 year old with regrets of
I wish I had have done the podcast.
I wish I had have got in the sand play all right.
Yeah, I learned to play the guitar or learn to ride that

(01:30:35):
motorbike or gone up in a hot air ball or whatever this thing
is, you know, but to to the podcast is a perfect example
something I'd wanted to do for ages.
Do that. I'll give that a go one day.
You know, and then I think 3 or 4 times I'd, I'd kind of thought
about it or planned on doing it for whatever reason.

(01:30:55):
It just, yeah, I mean, timing's everything too, but it just
hadn't worked out. And I'm like, no, this is I've
got to do it because I don't want to a Go to My Grave or
BB105 podcast. I wonder what?
Would have happened. I wonder if I would have enjoyed
it and to even have just done 1 show, It's like goal for Phil.

(01:31:18):
Even if I never did another showand I love doing it, but even if
I'd only done one show, just to have done it and to have
experienced it and felt it, it'slike that's, that's everything.
It's like you're ticking that box, you know?
Yeah. And you're saying give it a go?
You asked me and I went, yeah, cool.
That would be good. Yeah.
I tried not to go into. I thought, no, this is great.

(01:31:41):
Exactly, and that's very easy todo.
For a lot of. People to go not just with the
podcast, with anything to go. Oh, OK, let's.
Oh, I don't know. I tell you a fantastic thing
that Chase used talks about all the time and it is brilliant.
And if people do nothing else but take this on board, he says.

(01:32:03):
You know all of that. If we can lose our fear of
social judgement where like kicking goals all the way.
So everything we don't do is based around, you know what will
people think? People are judging and we judge
all the time and people say I don't judge, they're judging and
judgmental. Judgmental is different, but
judging, of course we do becausewe need to know our place in the

(01:32:26):
world. You're judging that against that
all the time. That's Alan Watts talks a lot
about there's no inside if there's not outside, there's no
up if there's no doubt. So everything has to have that.
And so I well, it has to have because what does out mean if
there's no such thing as in, what does it even mean?
What does dark mean if there's no such thing as light?

(01:32:47):
I could just what's. A good day without a bad day.
Bad day and all that stuff. But he talks about public
speaking and how really it cut boils down to it's not a what is
public speaking? What's the fear of public
speaking? It's about social judgement.
What will people think of me andif and I'm constantly working on
that. Hence I'm on here and I'm saying

(01:33:08):
stuff but I'm constantly saying reminding myself to lose.
It's not easy to do, of course, but to to keep working on losing
my fear of social judgement. Yeah.
Yeah, to try and lose that fear.And if you can, well then public
speaking isn't an issue. Doing this isn't an issue.
Trying that, you know, being here doing whatever isn't an

(01:33:31):
issue, is it? No.
And look, we are tribal. We're tribal.
We're from the, from the, you know, earliest days, the darkest
days of mankind. We're.
Tribal, so we're used to fittingin and, and trying to fit in
and, and being part of tribe. But yeah, look, 100% it's about

(01:33:51):
just, you know, being you and not letting what other people
might might think or or say stopyou from they can.
Be good or. They like they've got they're
prerogative, they could think what they like, but not stopping
yourself from doing things because people might think you
know they are. What would people think?
You focus on how many times you hear people say that.

(01:34:13):
What do you bet you do this? What will others think?
What will people say? Wow, it's crazy when you start
looking for it and go, that is really a thing that is really
holding yeah, people back and. What a gift to be able to say to
yourself, but luckily I don't give a fuck.
Yeah, How about I don't focus onit?

(01:34:33):
How about I do it anyway? And whatever they think, they've
got every right in the world to think, and then what?
Well, nothing. They're just thinking that then
what happens to me? Absolutely nothing.
So, you know, learning, I won't go into it, but you know, when
learning to do the corporate training, it's like, you know,
do you have to have to do this and have to do that?

(01:34:53):
And I really got like, oh, I don't want to be all corporatey
and it's not who I am. I'm really like animated.
And and then I just got to the point where I thought, but I
can, but that's who I am when I am corporate training.
That's that's who I am. This.
I don't want to be something else and assume they want that
and are judging me because I'm not.

(01:35:14):
I'm just going, yeah. I'm going to show up and you
know, they want someone stuffierand corporate here, they get
another person. So it's been a a great, a great
learning curve. It's been good.
Yeah, yeah, I saw this workshop ages ago of this guy who was a
trainer and exactly that. He rocked up in like jeans and

(01:35:36):
AT shirt his wore. He was very casual.
He was just very open and honest.
He mentioned about how he'd beenin gaol and about how his dad
was a magician and all of these kinds of things and just that
total dropping of the guard. And yet rather than go, oh,
fuck, I don't think you could learn anything from this guy.

(01:35:59):
It was the opposite. You went, oh, fuck, this guy's
like a real human being. So then you get that, that point
of connection, you know, and it and it's the opposite effect.
Rather than going, oh, this guy's not wearing a three piece
suit, you know, and looking, wearing a Rolex and you go, oh
fuck, you must be successful. It's the opposite.

(01:36:21):
It's about going, well, this person's really, really real and
that makes them really relatable, you know?
Yeah, absolutely. Because you've got to be a
thing. You've got to be real.
And they're people you're just talking to people and you yeah,
I I agree. And that's but again, it was a
learning for me. That was a shift.
That's something I had to work through.

(01:36:41):
So I'm saying you still you got to constantly.
His work wasn't a big deal, but it was like, no, really, because
I started to feel angst. I've started to feel, oh, what
do I really do? Corporate.
I'm not a corporate person and said, OK, then I love my flow.
I'm I'm clunking, you know I'm knocking.
I'm not flowing. So that oh.

(01:37:04):
Well, and it's that kind of Steve Jobs thing of people that
break the mould, you know, the ones that dare to step outside
of the, you know, of the circle,step out of the boundary and do
things their own way. They're the ones that quite
often end up making the biggest difference or the biggest
impact, you know? Yeah, I'm watching a guy at the

(01:37:25):
moment, Calvin Coyle, NLP, and I've just been watching and
doing some of that stuff and like, he, I'm going to swear
NLP, yeah. And NLP, neuro linguistic
programming. And he's famous and he's got
people in, you know, 180 countries and millionaire,
billionaire, and he does all this stuff and he's fantastic.

(01:37:48):
But he says fuck about every second word.
No, fuck it. He says, hey, give it a crack,
Just have a crack. He says no fact this back then.
And like I go, well, that's who he is.
So he's bringing his own ethicity and he's he's doing
this all over the world, hasn't it?
It's big business, wild success,it's called.
And and I think I think things are shifting, though.

(01:38:10):
I think things are shifting thatpeople like Gary Vee, as you
said, every second word he says,he's if and like he's just
saying do the bloody thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just yeah.
Stop bloody carrying on. You've seen jeans and AT shirt
and swears and you know, he's like mega successful, runs
multiple companies. See Joe Rogan.

(01:38:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Rogan, he's like a trooper, gets
people on and says, yeah, shit, that's he's brilliant.
Or, you know, I think he's brilliant, yeah.
Because again, Joe Rogan is justhimself.
He's friend. Similarly, Dana White of the
UFC, you know, runs this 14 1/2 billion dollar company, you know

(01:38:55):
the the that the UFC has become and yet same thing jeans,
T-shirts, swears himself and youknow, cool things.
He he's a classic for cool things as he sees him and just
you. Know yeah, his.
Classic thing is, is just I don't give a fuck.
Yeah, that's right. So that's that's social
judgement and losing that fear of it and presenting

(01:39:18):
authentically. And there's obviously people
might question you. You've got to do this.
You've got to do that, sure, within reason.
You've got to. And there's the other school of
thought that is, you know, it's how you feel when you are
dressed well and when you present.
And so there's there's all that.Just bring it all into the mix
and go. And again, it's about intention.
If you addressing a certain way because it makes you feel a

(01:39:40):
certain way or gives you a certain confidence, happy days.
But if you're doing it because you're going, oh, I want people
to think I'm successful. So, you know, I'll wear a Rolex
and I'll wear the. Suit or whatever.
Then the intention behind that is all wrong if you're doing it
because you go. When I feel when I wear a suit,
I feel comfortable or serene. It's comfortable.

(01:40:02):
Whatever. Yeah, the suit.
Wear the Rolex, whatever works. But if you're doing it because
you go, oh, like this is my uniform, you know, and I want
to, I want people to think that I'm a certain thing, then, you
know, the same behaviour, but the different intention behind
it, you know, the. Intention, tension is everything

(01:40:23):
I think I might. Need a.
Break. But what was that?
Sorry. Yeah, Yeah.
No, I was just, well, we'll continue.
I was going to ask you about theNLP, but let's have a quick
break and we'll come back. Yeah, because I want to hear
more about what you're doing. Also, Craig, it's all about me
is it should be. Continued.
Yeah. Fucking love it.
I fucking love it. Come on, let's.

(01:40:47):
Go. All right.
And we're back. Nice little break there.
We're just coming coming off theback of doing some English
accents during the break. Then as I was just telling
Sharon about the show that we'rewatching on Paramount called
Mobland. Tom Hardy, Pierce Brosnan, Helen

(01:41:09):
Mirren, numerous other guests, So good.
Love it. It's really good.
You'll have to check it out. But as we were just playing, it
does does make you sort of do the English accent or a kind of
a weird Australian version of the English accent.
Yeah. Yeah, so glad to be back now

(01:41:30):
before our break. Before in English and they'll
stay here and just go. Are you taking a piss?
What? Before our break.
Like when Americans do an Aussieaccent in films.
Anything that is. So hard, isn't it?
The worst, I must say, because so many Australian actors end up

(01:41:53):
in American films. We are super good at American
accents, but there's very few American actors that can nail
the Australian accent. It's really hard to do the other
one, you know? And, and as much as she's an
awesome, awesome actress, that dingo took my baby.

(01:42:17):
That was never good. He's a legend, but yeah, no
deal. Oh, it hurts my ears.
It wasn't. Australian.
Australian. Actually I like the.

(01:42:38):
Yep, what were you going to say?What about that movie?
God, it's funny with Robert Downey Junior.
They're in the jungle. Tropical Thunder.
Tropic Thunder. Filming Oh God, that's so good.
And he does. He's a what?

(01:42:59):
Is he a white man playing a black man playing an Aussie
playing or something and he Aussie accent?
I've seen Robert Downey Junior talking about talking about that
behind the scenes. I think it was on Rogan and they
were talking about how they werefilming that.
So funny. They were saying they probably

(01:43:21):
couldn't even get away with it today.
They got away within that they probably couldn't get away with
today. Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Well, you can't get away with a lot today all.
Right. It'd probably be a little
politically incorrect. We're a little bit more
sensitive than. I think what we.
Were in days gone by. I think we're a lot more

(01:43:46):
sensitive. We were in days gone by a lot.
Now. What were we talking about?
Remember? Yes, NPL, Neuro Linguistic NLP,
Neuro Linguistic Programming do.Programming.
I don't know. I, I, I'm aware of it.
I've heard of it. Oh well, I'll.

(01:44:07):
Be all about it. Yeah, you probably, I probably
don't know a lot more than you, except it's been around for a
very, very, very long time. As I said to John, my darling
husband, anybody who's anybody has done an LP.
So this guy just put it on there.

(01:44:28):
I've looked at it. I've looked at it for quite a
while to do, to learn. And I signed up for programme, I
think a year and a half or so ago, and I didn't pay a lot, but
I didn't get to do it. And then this guy came up and he
was offering a fast track NLP certificate for free.
Well, so I thought, well, worst case, if he's awful and it's

(01:44:48):
bad, I can just, you know, unsubscribe.
Nothing gained, Yeah. Yeah, I just got to connect my
Bluetooth again. It's going to be very naughty
today so I thought I'll give it a go.
It's been absolutely brilliant. So it's like 8, it's 2 * a week

(01:45:10):
for four weeks. So it's 8 sessions and they go
for it now. But when he's on they go for
about two hours. He talks 1,000,000 an hour and
he's given us for free some fantastic, valuable, wonderful
stuff which is brilliant. I've been writing lots of notes
so I've got Tuesday and Thursdayto go this week I think so he

(01:45:33):
also offers from there. He is selling a programme,
Needless to say, but. I.
Love, love, love to do it, but Ithought I have done a lot of
paying for things and learning things.
I need to really knuckle down and kind of have what I've got
consolidated and keep moving forward time wise.
I also didn't really feel like Ihad a lot of trying to invest in

(01:45:57):
that at the moment, but it's really fair.
So neuro linguistic programme, it's very much like we've been
talking about beliefs, values. I just, I find it so hard to
articulate, but it's about habits and maybe looking at my
notes here, I was watching the thing before self sabotage.

(01:46:21):
So it's, they have a lot of routines, rituals, habits.
It's, it's sort of like a, it's almost like a very, very
directive in a very positive way.
Smacking in the face, coaching here.
Bang. This is what So it's, it's good.
It's very cognitive. You know, the work I do is not
very cognitive, but this is like, but they still actually,

(01:46:43):
it was brilliant to see that it's still very union based.
They talk about archetypes and union stuff.
So it's still very, it's called transpers transformative NLP.
So they have taken on a a bit ofa different slant, but it's like
I could do a process with you say close your eyes, you might

(01:47:04):
have a limited belief. So a lot about lot, lot about
limiting beliefs and a lot aboutanchoring and ritual.
So he talked about how we do things because there's a ritual
around it. I was trying to and I watched
things once. I've got to watch them a few
times to remember the facts. I'm not great at this, but for

(01:47:24):
example, this guy used to snort cocaine.
Not that guy, of course. Another guy, another.
Guy. Another guy, maybe it wasn't.
It's very interesting that he knows this guy.
I know. And it talks about even like

(01:47:44):
with coffee and you would get this because you're a very, your
coffee making is very much a ritual.
And the guy was, yeah, doing thethe cocaine.
And so it was about, I don't even know cocaine.
I don't know you. If you put it on the thing and
you chop it up and you snort it or whatever you do.
But it's like there's process toit.

(01:48:05):
Yeah. And then he went to gaol for
whatever reason, obviously having cocaine or whatever he
was doing naughty. So then he came out and he
didn't want to do cocaine anymore, but he felt that he was
really missing that that ritual.So he somehow and this sorry.
So he was chasing the height. He was missing that high, Yeah.

(01:48:27):
Yeah, yeah. But.
Dopamine and. Yeah, don't mean Chase Hughes
talks about a lot of that. So again, don't quote me on
these facts because I heard the story once and I'm, you know,
not good at repeating this truthand I've heard once clearly it's
quite apparent. But anyway, so the guy came up
with getting these, these sniffing salts so that he could

(01:48:50):
still take himself through this,this ritual and this this
process because that was all part of a high and then sniff it
because it was so like that was the whole encompass the whole
process rather than just the fact that the cocaine was going
into a system. So part of that then it's like
reprogramming NLP is about reprogramming, reframing things

(01:49:14):
like that guy had done so if it's if it that's the thing or
the lemon in believes he's got processes around yeah, just.
The whole the ritual side of things and replacing that.
Ritual yeah, yeah. And beliefs as oppo A limiting
belief as opposed to a a true belief.
So we just covered a thing that was a limiting belief versus a

(01:49:39):
true belief. So we did one side, this is just
me watching the zoom and the other side of the, the the page,
for example, was I do I is therea belief that I am a 7 year old?
Of course, no, I absolutely knowthat I'm not my I do not believe

(01:49:59):
that I'm seven years old. I know I was once, but is that
my current belief? Absolutely not.
So then you anchor in this wholehow it feels to have a belief
that is unshakable. It's it's a true belief.
I play Tooth again and then he goes through how you then sort

(01:50:21):
of merge those so that you're limiting belief you're
replacing. As I said, I've watched it once.
I know the theory, but I'd have to really look at all the how
you really do it. Like if you if you tell yourself
you know, you then apply the example of being a 7 year old to
something that may or may not betrue depending on what you've

(01:50:43):
convinced yourself of. Yes, that's right, because
that's what our belief I true believe feels like.
It's absolutely it's this colour, it's that shape, it's
there. It sits here and he does this
sort of tick list and then wantsto move across the limiting
beliefs across into, you know, making.
I can't lose weight, I can't quit smoking, I can't stop

(01:51:06):
drinking or whatever the. Yeah, Yeah.
I can't, you know, I can't make money.
I can't this. So I, I know that's a very vague
answer, but I think, you know, everybody's done NLP, like, you
know, all of the people. And it's a big part of, it's a
big part of, I think even what Chase Hughes talks about all
that stuff. So it's, it's programming.

(01:51:27):
It's actually just reprogrammingand everything.
I think that's the thing. It's programming or
brainwashing. You know, it's, and, and it
comes back to what you're feeding.
Like Chase Hughes talks about itand a lot of others about what
you're actually feeding yourselfand your brain.
So it's why I don't watch the news and I don't watch a lot of
negative things because you're telling your brain on and on and

(01:51:49):
on. This is this is what I want to
watch. This is what I want to think
about South to reprogram yourself or self brainwash even.
It's like I want to watch, you know, Gary Vee, I want to watch
Trace Hughes. I want to watch these things
that that are feeding my brain with stuff that's developing it

(01:52:10):
into a positive and healthy mindset.
It's like they say, what do theysay?
You are the people that you surround yourself with your it's
something like you're the the top five people that you
associate with your life. Yeah, yeah.
Mainly influenced by the the. OK, Yeah.
Associate with so they're, you know, I, I've quite often heard

(01:52:32):
Gary Vee and numerous other people say a similar thing that
look at your circle, look at whoyou associate with and who the
influence is. And if it's like someone that's
naturally very negative and are always, ah, you can't do that.
Don't try that. You know, who do you think you
are? Why are you doing that?
Limit your it's not that you have to cut them out of your

(01:52:54):
life altogether, but limit your association with them, but
someone else that's like, oh, that's great.
Look, I'm glad you've done that,you know, give it a go and and
keep doing it. And, and someone that's got that
more of a positive influence, try and associate with them more
and surround yourself more with those sort of people.
And again, it's a similar kind of thing.
It it's amazing how many how much overlap there is between

(01:53:19):
different people in different. Fields.
That have. That similar.
Core thing. Yeah, no doubt about it not
being do. I've really been doing soft
development stuff about 30 yearsand more formally in the last 20
with my training and my study and my looking at things.
And yeah, absolutely. There's a core, yeah.
There's definitely some fantastic themes that run

(01:53:42):
through the whole lot that Yeah,what you focus on, you get more.
What are you feeding your brain?And there's, ah, there's a
brilliant thing. And again, I find it hard to
explain, but there's a Fanta. Have you heard of the Reticular
Activating System Ras? No.
It is so fantastic and again, Chase Hughes talks about it, but
I've heard it from, which is whyI love all this stuff because it

(01:54:04):
all kind of goes, yeah, I reckonthat too.
And that's the stuff I've already learned and I believe in
that and and so happy to take onyour belief.
It's also going, this is actually still, this is the good
stuff. So and I did an exercise with
somebody recently, which is a bit of a standard exercise, but
it's the whole what you focus onyou get more of.

(01:54:25):
So it's apparently absolutely scientifically, neurologically
proven. It's not woo woo woo.
No, you just say that. And I give the example that I've
talked to John about it and I'm saying it's, it's the reticular
activating system. Ras and people couldn't have a
Google of this because pretty fantastic.
And it's what you focus on. You get more of it if you even

(01:54:47):
have a little ponder about your thoughts in your life.
And you go, oh, that's a bit real.
So I'm saying to John, it's like, because when we get in the
car, this is another story. We get the John who's patient
and calm and quiet and sweet. We get in the car.
Oh, there's another stooger. Well, there's a stooger.
Look at that guy up ahead. And I go, I don't care, don't
tell me about them anymore. And he goes no, but he just

(01:55:11):
pulled out in front of me and I got that's OK, I don't I don't
mind. Well, and he goes on and on
about these stooges and I go as.Long as you keep looking for.
Stooges. You're going to have Stooges.
It doesn't happen to me because I don't care.
No, but that's doesn't make sense.
It can't, you know, So we have this, this discussion.
So I say to him that the idea isyou get somebody to look around

(01:55:33):
their room and say just look around the room and just notice
how many red things you see. Just count up like 1-2.
You know, you might think of what they are or just a number
and people. Then you say, how many?
The guy like, I saw 14 red things.
You go, that's fantastic. How many blue things did you
see? I'm like, oh, blue, you didn't

(01:55:53):
ask me to look at blue. Oh, I was just looking for the
red things. You go, well, how many blue?
Well, I didn't see any. So you see what's happening
there You're only if you're intending to so I said to and of
course they give the same example right across the board.
You know you you're going I'm going to buy a yellow Holden.
I love it. There's hardly any I've never
seen any I'm going to be the only person who lives around

(01:56:15):
here with the yellow Holden and you go out on the road.
Oh, here's one. Why?
Here's another one. And they.
It's so true, It's so true. Because your brain says, oh,
you're really interested in yellow Holdens.
I can hear you really being interested.
Or I know that you really want to.
You know, you're talking. I don't know what your brain
says, but you know, there's yellow Holdens.

(01:56:35):
That's your focus. Here's a lot more here.
Look, look, look, here they are.But how many black Commodores or
black forwards did you see? Didn't see.
Any didn't see. Any it's a brilliant, brilliant
thing. So it's the RA is you start
playing with this and you'll just be blown away because you
go. That is Oh my God.
So you know, you again, I'm not looking for cranky shopkeepers,

(01:56:58):
Am I looking for pleasant people?
Am I looking for, you know, I don't know.
But you, just you, you start to play with this and you will see
that your brain is responding towhat you're focused on.
You really want, you know, and you see red things here and all
these red things. So John had the discussion.
Yeah. Go.

(01:57:19):
Yeah, yeah. I was just gonna say like you
could intentionally go out and look for people say that are are
really positive in a day, you know, that's.
Exactly what you need to do, exactly what you need to do.
Because John was sort of going, oh, I don't understand that.
It doesn't make sense. Are you saying that all of a
sudden yellow Holdens are just dropping out of the sky and
they're all on the road where they were before?

(01:57:40):
They know that's not exactly what I'm saying.
That's not how it works. But your your brain.
Is manifesting more yellow holdens on.
Magically here they are for Johnto sing.
So he goes, I don't, which is a fantastic conversation to have
with someone because. And I say to him, you're looking

(01:58:01):
for stooges. I don't have them because I'm
not interested. I have something else because
I'm interested. So it's fabulous.
And it is actually proven that your brain brain's crazy.
It's, it's, it's giving you whatyou're interested in.
Oh, you're interested. I'll give you more of that.

(01:58:21):
What do they say? Where Where attention goes,
energy flows. Hang on, yes, you've gone silent
again. Let me know when I'm back.
Hang on. We need some elevator music in

(01:58:43):
the background. I'm back.
And you're back. I was just saying it's like
that, saying where pension goes,energy flows.
Exactly. It's exactly the same as what
you focus on. You get more, you get more.
What you focus on, where attention goes, energy flows.
It is the same. Stuff and and avoiding the stuff

(01:59:07):
that you don't want your attention.
Yes, it's like they say, if you say to someone, don't hit that
tree, don't hit the tree, don't hit the tree, don't ride.
Your. Bike into that tree, they go,
ah, the tree. They focus on the tree, they hit
the tree. You know, it's exactly that same
thing. It's, you know, you don't put
the thought into your head. It's it's intentionally focusing

(01:59:29):
on some things and avoiding other things.
Yeah, so exactly like you said before, surround yourself by
good people, watch good things, watch stuff that's informative,
watch. I mean, sometimes I watch a
daggy crazy movie, but you startwatching some sad stuff, you're
going to feel pretty miserable. There's a fantastic, this is

(01:59:49):
actually really relevant. There's a fantastic process I
learned. So I learned it in that therapy
and it's called the hero's journey.
And the hero's journey is in nearly every movie, and it's.
Do you know about that? It's in all.
Yeah, I was going to say I know that from a a background in in
acting and storytelling. So it's you, you go along

(02:00:10):
minding your own business in life, you have a crisis and you
go down and it, if you can see me, it's like AV, they play it
out. So you go along, have a crisis,
you go down and then there's a return or a or a rebirth and
then you come up. So it's a beautiful process to
do with people because when I dothe process with them, what you

(02:00:33):
start to do is you're finding and recognising the things that
actually take you down. So if you talk to someone who's
just had a break up with a relationship, they're like, oh,
I'm listening to sad country andwestern music.
I'm not seeing my friends at themoment.
No, I'm not doing this. I can't be bothered getting it.
And they start to do all these things that are just taking them

(02:00:54):
down. And then something happens.
And they say it's usually external to the person.
It's usually something happens to make that return or the
behaviour. Yeah, yeah.
Something happens. Somebody might come to you or,
or you might see something or watch something or something
happens. And you start to come out of
that, that bee. And then you start to go.

(02:01:17):
Well, having coffee with girlfriends really helps.
I know going, you know to the gym makes me feel better.
I was going to say exercise. Yeah, that's a perfect.
Example of that you. Know people stop going into
brand. Or stop exercising.
They start to, you know, their their feelings or emotions or or
outlook changes. Exactly.

(02:01:38):
So then you the return and the idea is you will always have
dips. You will always, it's life.
But the idea is to catch yourself when you're going down
and go. I actually know if I'm going to
listen to really miserable, you know, my wife done and left me
with 12 kids, you know, in an empty pantry.
I'm going to go down because that's what they call the most

(02:02:00):
country and western. And.
So you start to to go down and you go, you know what I was
going to put my record, you know, John Denver on is, you

(02:02:21):
know, sunshine or my shop, whatever.
And you go, I know that stuff actually doesn't make me very
happy. So I am going to catch myself.
And I know that if I go to the gym, I'm going to feel better.
If I watch a comedy, I'll feel better.
And so the idea is you learn your own patterns and you also
honour those beautiful gems and those gifts that that you have

(02:02:42):
earned by coming up and you go, I know these things make me
better. I know this does and I know.
So the idea is to catch yourself.
Instead of going right down, youstart to catch yourself along
the way. That's so.
Cool. Come up.
It is, it is a beautiful, beautiful thing, you know, and
you can do it on a small scale. Like I notice when I'm watching

(02:03:05):
some shows, I'm like, I'm feeling really angry or I'm
feeling cranky at people or miserable, especially if there's
a real underdog and people have been, it's a lot of non justice.
And I'm like, oh, I'm really annoyed about this.
So you feel it? Yeah.
And you kind. Of but like you said, that is
part of life. So it is still important to
acknowledge that that there is there is shit that goes on

(02:03:26):
that's fast, there is stuff in the world that is just not
right. But it's to not focus on that
and to not live in that and to acknowledge that and then and
then, yes, redirect. Or or to Yeah.
That's right, because people aretheir own worst enemies.
They just make it, you know, unbeknownst to them, of course,

(02:03:48):
they're like they then, you know, have a little drink at
night and then they have a this,they play the miserable records.
Not that they won't place records anymore.
They start to do these things and they're just taking them
further down and. The next step to that as well,
sorry to to cut you off, but I was going to say the next step
to that. I was only reading recently

(02:04:10):
about resilience and how resilience is the ability to not
only do that, but to be able to bounce back or redirect yourself
faster and faster and faster. So for example, yeah, that's
right. So rather than it taking three
days to redirect your attention and to come back to something

(02:04:34):
more positive, now it takes you 2 days and then it takes you one
day. And then you get to the stage
where like you can actually change, you know, perceptions,
reality. You can change your whole
outlook just by changing your perception of something you know
and to do it. Fast touching yourself.
And knowing your habits and saying I know that's going to
make me feel worse. I know if I watch a ROM com

(02:04:57):
while I've just broken up with someone and listen to miserable
records and, and it's how, you know, you talk about the the
heavy metal and it makes the kids because they're hearing it.
It's like, yeah, injustice in the world, that mob mentality
that that collective unconsciousthat all of a sudden everybody's
like, yeah, we're the victim. And it's like to play out,

(02:05:17):
you've got a if. And again, misery loves company
if you're if you focus on that and other people are doing the
same thing, you know? Yeah.
See the click. On others, fuck, when this
happens and that happens and they go, yeah, that's right,
yeah, I hate it when that happens.
And then you both sort of talk yourselves down the rabbit hole

(02:05:39):
and that's, you know, it's like next thing, everything's
everything's bad. You know, everything's bad.
Exactly. There's a fantastic thing and I
always liken back to the richestman in Babylon book, which I
think that's where it is, because I always say it is so
anybody's listening, I'm wrong, I apologise.
But the richest man in Babylon, that is exactly what you're

(02:05:59):
saying. There's a farmer and you know,
the, the neighbour comes over and says, oh, you know, I hear
your son is off to war, you know, And he says, Oh yeah.
And he says, oh, that's so bad. And so was it good or is it bad?
And then he comes back and he said, oh, the neighbour says
your son is home from war. That is so good.
And he says, well, is it good oris it bad?

(02:06:21):
The father keeps saying, and then, you know, he comes back
and he says, oh, I see your son has broken his leg.
Oh, that's so bad. Mama goes, well, is it good or
is it bad? And then, you know, the Barber
comes back, the I see your son'slegs broken so he doesn't have
to go back to war. That's good.
And he's like, is it good or is it bad?
So we tend to absolutely two stories I've got that's one.

(02:06:45):
I've heard that one before, actually.
I've heard someone there's, there's like a longer version of
that. And then, you know, because the
sun broke his leg, he didn't have to go off to war.
So that was good. But you know.
What's happened to you is jumpedto the worst case, but it could
be a great case. And the other one is the lady
who's got the baby in the pram. And her friend comes, sees her

(02:07:07):
up the street and says, oh, yourbaby's so gorgeous.
She's just lovely and goes, oh, no, she's so gorgeous.
Then she's, oh, she looks like she's got a runny nose though,
is she not? Well?
And the woman's energy drops andgoes, oh, no, yeah, she's
probably getting a cold. You know, my, my sister's been
sick. And she starts to go down and
goes, oh, but I bet she gets well, better, you know, if you
just said it at it. And she's, yeah, the woman.

(02:07:28):
So this woman's effectively exactly what you're saying,
manipulating the energy because she's buying into this energy.
Of Oh no, she's not well. Whereas that farmer didn't.
But this, this scenario is the opposite.
He's like, Oh yeah, oh, they getsick.
You know, they get sick. But yeah, you know, and it's the
woman's taking this sort of going down and she's, but I bet

(02:07:49):
she'll bounce back and say, yeah, the woman's up again.
And yes, she does. She always bounces back really
quickly. Yeah, it's funny again, back to
Gary Vee. I've heard him talk about that
exact thing, about how vulnerable people can be to both
praise and criticism. And it's like, you can't just

(02:08:10):
focus on one or the other. For example, you know, he talks
about how people are like, especially online or if you're
in the public eye, you know, people won't.
Gary Vees is, for example, people won't post or are scared
to post or put content out because of the criticism.
Yeah. Everyone jumps on, oh, you know,
who do you think you are? That shit.
You're this, you're that, you know?

(02:08:31):
And so they let the criticism bring them down.
But when it comes to praise, oh,you're so good.
You're the best at that. I love the way you do this.
You're number one. They pump themselves up, but
they're making themselves vulnerable because they're
relying on the praise. They're affected by the praise.
Same with the criticism. So you know, he'll say, I look

(02:08:54):
people all the time. Ah, Gary Vee, you're the best,
you're the go, you're the greatest of all time.
You're this, you're that. And he's like, look, that's
cool. He thinks to himself, that's
cool. That's that's great that you say
that. But he thinks to himself, I'm
not going to pump myself up because of that.
Just the same as if you say, oh,Gary Vee, you're shit, you're
full of yourself. You think you know it all,
you're this, you're that, you'rewhatever.

(02:09:15):
He won't let that affect him either.
And so you have to be not impervious, but you have to kind
of limit your response to. Good.
Or the negative. And it's funny, I only heard
someone, a voice actress that, that I was reading some of her
stuff on LinkedIn and she was saying the same thing that, you

(02:09:37):
know, someone was very vulnerable to both the, the, you
know, comparing the praise and the criticism.
And they're like, if someone says something negative, they're
like, hi, I just ignore that. But they were still listening to
the positive. And it's interesting that whole
thing of like, if you limit yourresponse to both, you're kind of

(02:09:59):
relying on what you think and what you feel coming back to
what you were saying about, thenyou're responsible for where
you're directing your attention,of course.
Yeah. You know, you're the one that
goes, well, that's great that somebody said I'm the greatest
at this or I suck at that. It's like, well, if I ignore
both of that and and again, likeif it's someone that coming back

(02:10:23):
to intention, if it's someone that cares about you and has
really good intentions, he goes,hey, look, you know that thing
you do, it doesn't do you any favours.
You know, maybe just have a lookat that.
Then sure, you go, hey, look, this person's really close to
me. I know that if, if you know, my
husband or wife or or best friend says this, they're coming

(02:10:45):
from a good place. So I will take it into
consideration. But you know, for 99% of the
other people that are, whether they're saying something good or
something bad, it's like I'm going to rely on what I think or
what I feel rather than you. Know.
Perspective, yes, it's so true. Finding your own centre and your

(02:11:05):
own truth within it. Being open to let me just think
if that is actually I think I'm off again finding your truth.
Can you hear me still? Yeah, no worries.
Going yeah, as you exactly. And we're so focused on the
negative, the criticism will outweigh the positive stuff

(02:11:28):
every time we'll go oh, that oneperson out of 20 said something.
I really want to focus on that, maybe on this.
So, yeah, just and exactly what you're saying, if it's somebody
coming with integrity and and compassion saying, you know,
Craig, just going to tell you, you go, I'm going to have a
little think about that might not still fit with you properly.
But yeah, let me have a little little think about what that

(02:11:51):
means for me and do I need to have a look at my behaviour.
Yeah. And then you take it away and
go, yeah, maybe, yeah, that is something that I'll look at.
You know, you have to think about it and see how it sits.
And it's something that you can just be aware of and then you
can react or act accordingly, you know?
Yeah. Oh, yeah.

(02:12:13):
I think the person you can't take it what everything on board
that people say, but I think youhave to have that lovely balance
of that was interesting that they said that.
Do I, do I need to look at that?That's just growth.
And there's a a fantastic, one of those gold Nuggets I was
talking about earlier, those beautiful blueprints is that

(02:12:36):
your external world is a mirror of your internal world.
And that is magnificent when youlearn to understand it and and
work with that in your own life.That's, yes, a great tool, A
fabulous. Tool 100%.
Have you? Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
Because it really is. Yeah, because if it's happening

(02:12:59):
outside of you, it has to start from inside you first.
And people get really annoyed about that.
They get, they get really defensive.
Like what? Why would I create that?
No, I'm not doing well, blah, blah, blah, blah.
No, we're so re Bob, you know, no, what are you saying?
And you go, well, if you think about it, that's and work with
it and you do your work internally and you make some
shifts that will change, Yeah, which.

(02:13:21):
Again, just comes back to that being open and being willing to
you don't have to commit, but just it's saying to yourself,
I'm just going to take. Have a look at it.
Have a little look. Yeah, yeah.
And. Have a little look.
If it if it does sit right with you, you go, yeah.
Cool. That is something I'll look at,
and if not, then you. I guess it's about being honest

(02:13:43):
with yourself and just going, yeah, that is something I
probably do need to be aware of or to look at or going, no, you
know what? As much as that person loves me,
I don't think they've quite got that one particular thing right,
because their perspectives are are.
Or yes. That's.
Right on their own beliefs and experiences and and that kind

(02:14:06):
of. Thing.
I think when it comes to this, Ilike to say if it's happening
two or three times, if it's a one off and someone says, hey,
you know, they're really angry because they don't like what you
do and you go, you got to really.
But if it's two or three, if there's say there's conflict
around you and it's, it's two orthree, you've had two or three

(02:14:26):
conflicts in the last week. And you say, if you were to say
to me, oh, I'm just, I've got a lot of conflict in my life right
now, then you know, I've got a stupid cat here.
Sorry. You know, I've got a lot of
conflict and I go, well, it's really unusual, but this, this,
this and I and, and you bring itback to So if it's outside, it's
happening in here first. Do you have some conflict

(02:14:49):
internally? And you know, they might sort
of, oh, what do you mean? What do you mean?
You go, are you conflicted internally?
Is that and if they ponder it, they'll go, Oh my goodness, you
know, I absolutely am. I'm really conflicted and I'm
absolutely grumpy at myself. I'm going, you should do the no,
why do you do that? You don't need to do it.
But I really and they're having this internal conflict.

(02:15:10):
What a what a gift to just know,OK, that's mine.
Yeah. So how about I don't have an
internal habit. I just, and people go, what's
the opposite of that? And you go, how about you just
honour? I'm doing my best.
I'm trying to yourself internally.
I'm trying. I'm going to work on that.
How about I don't beat myself upabout it and I don't have such

(02:15:31):
conflict, but I try to go, well,let me work through this.
And the conflict externally goesaway.
Yeah, You know, I'm not saying everything in your whole world
and it's not magic, but geez, itchanges you because it's not
needing to be manifested becauseit's wanting you to look at
internally. I've heard, I'm pretty sure it

(02:15:52):
may or may not have been, but I'm pretty sure it was Jordan
Peterson talk about this. I'm sure it was him.
And he was talking about this concept of being your own best
friend. So someone comes to you and go,
oh, Sharon, look, this happened and that happened.
And, you know, this was really fucked up.
And what do I do as a best friend?
You go, hey, look, you know, youmight need to do this.

(02:16:14):
You might need to do that. Look at this.
Look at that. You know, whatever they suggest.
But if you were giving yourself that advice, you're not as kind
to yourself. Yeah.
Oh, no, no, no. I just got that wrong.
I shouldn't have, you know, and you beat yourself up.
Whereas what? You kind of need to do is go.
If I was not me, if I was talking to someone else who was

(02:16:37):
my best friend, how would I treat myself as my own?
Best friend, absolutely. And then?
It's saying. To yourself.
Hey, Craig, look, you know you did your best.
This didn't work out. Maybe you just tried this or
that and separating yourself, but treating yourself as your
own best friend rather than beating yourself up.
It's it's such a mind shift. It's a fantastic month.

(02:17:01):
You've done. I do that.
I've done that with lots of groups and lots of different
people. Exactly what you're saying.
They're your own friend, don't we?
Yeah. And if you're not, it'll play
out. It'll play out.
And I just reckon these are likebeing handed a lottery ticket
going. Do you know that's because of
that? You go, oh, my God, I can do
something about that instead of walking through life going,

(02:17:21):
well, I'm a victim. People are mean to me.
People are. I'm having a lot of conflict or
I'm getting bullied. That's awful.
And yeah, you've got this wonderful.
Let's have a look at if that's happening outside of me, then it
it's happening inside of me. And don't start beating yourself
up about it. Just go, OK, that's not great.
I don't like it. So exactly the same.

(02:17:42):
Be your own best friend and go. That's not OK.
How about I don't do that? How about I try not to do that
to myself? Yeah, that's right.
Unless you're the extreme other end of that scale where these
chronic narcissists can have a run in with 99 different people
and go. It's not me though, it's those

(02:18:03):
other 99 people. It's not me.
Yeah, sure. You know, I've had a run in with
99 different people this week, but it's still not me.
It's all them. It's all them because I will
often reflect and I go, OK, that's happened twice, you know,
and that's really what's going on for that.
Do I have to look at that? And and you know, you might go,

(02:18:23):
oh, why is everything going to be my fault?
But you go, no, let me look at it, just look at it.
Let me just ponder it again, just reflect to go well, is what
happened then, because that's not just a, an isolated
incident. That's not normally like that,
but it is at the moment. So that's, I think it's, I think
they're brilliant because I think they're, they're a tool

(02:18:46):
that you can then go, OK, that'sfantastic. that Lady said, you
know, it's happening out here. So it's not about blame, blame,
blame. I'm doing it.
It's my fault. It's like it's out here.
It started internally, it's going on internally.
What's happening? Am I doing that?
Yes, I am. Yeah.
How about if I'm kinder to myself?
How about if I'm not or wouldn'tbe doing that to my best friend?

(02:19:09):
Exactly what you're saying. So how about I?
I work with that and then that will change what's going on
outside of you. And like you say, they're,
they're blueprints to live by, but they are also absolute
Nuggets. They're.
Brilliant Nuggets, I love learning.
Stuff. Rewards of just.
Yeah. They're so it's like everything

(02:19:32):
you know, the the simplest things in life are often the
best. It can be just a a really simple
slight mindset change, just a slight mindset.
We can have a massive impact on the way you treat yourself and
view yourself and the way your life actually plays out.
Absolutely. Your results are different.

(02:19:55):
So yeah, it doesn't always have to be that deep.
Deep, hard, hard slog. You can make changes just by
reflecting and by knowing these few little things and and you
know, Google stuff and there's some incredible well being stuff
for free online. And it's and it's if it

(02:20:15):
resonates, if it doesn't put it aside if it resonates.
But if you want to feel better, start to look at those things.
And and that's. A lot of the stuff they talk
about with depression people andJordan Peterson talks about this
also, which I love him, I think is fantastic.
And he talks about step. I mean, it's the opposite of
what we're saying. But the people who are very,

(02:20:36):
very, very depressed are so totally self focused and in a
world of misery. But if they can help somebody, I
said cat, if they can help somebody do something kind for
somebody else, that is such a beautiful feeling.
And if they could just maybe do a little bit, I know they feel

(02:20:58):
terrible, but they're going to feel terrible regardless.
And if they don't want to stay feeling awful and depressed,
just shift that a little bit. But how about I do this today?
How about I do something nice for someone?
How about try it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I forget what there's a saying, but it's something about
service, you know, something about a life.

(02:21:22):
Yeah, it's all about being a life service.
And that doesn't mean you have to work at the local church and
cook meals, you know, soup kitchens, you know, twice a
week. It life a service.
I think it's a bit of a bum rap because people say, oh, you
know, I need the money, which ofcourse they probably do.
I can't just be a volunteer. I can't just, but you can do a

(02:21:44):
little something here and there.You can just do a little a
little something that is being kind to somebody else or making
their life a bit easier and doing a little take the.
It can be as simple as a smile, as a compliment, as saying
something nice to someone or something positive, or doing

(02:22:05):
something without expectation ofthem giving you something.
Yeah. You know, it can just be, yeah,
just calling a friend, you know,and just saying, hey, how's
things, how's it all going? You know, no, not after
anything, not not wanting anything.
It's just, you know. And sometimes it's putting your
own needs aside. It's, you know, you might have a

(02:22:25):
friend that's going through a bad time and you kind of heard
the story 50 times and you know,it's wearing.
But you go, well, how about I just put me aside for a bit.
They need to talk. So you do ring them up, as you
say, and you go, oh, what's happening?
And you know, they're going to. But just for now, they let them.
Let him just do that. Yeah.
It's just like, yeah, I don't know, It's those little things.

(02:22:46):
But if people who are severely depressed and all that I'm not,
please don't think. I think it's just a quick fix.
But by stepping outside of themselves and doing a little
something here and there would do them.
The world are good. Because two of the things that I
have read many years ago and I believe are absolutely
imperative is everybody needs a sense of belonging and a sense

(02:23:09):
of purpose. Yeah, for sure if.
You take those away from people,so people say who maybe are
depressed, they stay home. They're unable to work because
they're in such a bad place. So they have no sense of
belonging and no sense of purpose.
And they don't get better, that's for sure.
Yeah. Yeah.

(02:23:30):
You know, I often think we coulddo people a service by bringing
them into giving them something to do.
As much as they don't want to doit and they're not really up to
it, it would actually, you know,counteract how bad they're
feeling. It would be better for them.
Yeah, and they're both so related, those things, you know,

(02:23:50):
I feeling like they're part of something and then also having a
sense of purpose within that that tribal group or, or.
Whatever. You know, yeah, for sure, for
sure. Yeah.
It's interesting, isn't it? Very cool.
But again, it's, it's amazing how interrelated they all are.

(02:24:12):
And coming back to what you're saying, it's a matter of finding
the, the, the person that you relate to the most.
That's pretty much saying a verysimilar message.
It's just a matter of finding that particular person or that
particular thing that that resonates with you the most.
Yeah, you know. Whether it's it's Jordan

(02:24:32):
Peterson or Gary Vee or whoever else that you could.
Just bring you more into your psyche, into your brain.
Tell me in your brain. I like this because it's
positive. I like this because it's
helpful. I like this because it's
beneficial in my life. You know, there's a brilliant
series on YouTube, which is CarlJung Academy of Ideas.

(02:24:54):
And then what about maybe 15 or 20 minutes long?
And it's all the Jungian stuff because it's hard to read a
whole book on that. And it's pretty deep and
meaningful. But he was brilliant.
And so these Academy, I have ideas that might be about the
the external world's a mirror reflection of your internal
world. We might be talking about it's

(02:25:15):
not what happens to you in life,but it's how you behave with
what happens. So it's got all these fantastic
things. So watch them.
And I don't care if I watch themover and over.
But for people who want to sort of start feeling and thinking
more positive and bringing some knowledge about how to do that
into their life, these are fantastic.

(02:25:36):
They're free, they're on YouTube.
And it is it's bringing that in.You know, let me watch some of
that stuff. Don't watch the news.
Don't sit there and and watch, you know, politicians fighting
one another. Watch the stuff that that is
feeding your psyche some good stuff.

(02:25:57):
Yeah. Yeah, the nurturing stuff, the
good stuff. Yeah, because the other stuff
just. Yeah, could take you.
It's that that V again, that Heroes just takes you down.
Yeah. Yeah.
There's some great, great stuff that you and it's setting the
intention. I want to feel better.
I don't feel like watching stupid car, you know, I don't
want to hear about all these good things.

(02:26:19):
It's alright for them. They're in a good place.
Just watch it, you know, just go.
You know what? What can I get worse?
I don't know. Just watch it.
Yeah. And even if it's one thing that
you take on for that week, you know, it can be just one thing
of going, well, OK, I'm just going to look at that, that one
thing, even if you watch one a week and you just take
incorporate that into your life for that week, you know?

(02:26:43):
I'm just connecting you again. You're just connecting me or
you're disconnecting? You're not back yet, Craig.
Hold on. It's going to annoy people like
crazy. Hang on Craig, a listening
patience. It's good because everyone knows

(02:27:05):
that we're all impacted by technology.
Right and back. We're back.
I was just saying it's good because everyone, everyone can
relate. Everyone's impacted by
technology. You know, roll with those
punches. It's.
God said when it's when it worksand it's the opposite when it's

(02:27:26):
not. The AI getting ready to destroy
us, but that's another story. That's that's a whole nother
episode. If we live long enough to,
humanity is still around. But look, honestly, it's not.
It's not it. What is it?
It's, it's just, it's not like God, it's all right for

(02:27:48):
everybody else. If you just want to make changes
and you do want to feel a bit better and you do want to make
some, just do a little bit here.Just think about something we've
talked about today. Just know that it's real and
that it works and that you don'thave to do years of hard slog or
therapy or I mean, you can, but just take some stuff on board.
And just so I actually, I'm a bit sick of how I'm feeling or I

(02:28:11):
don't know, take on board some of those things.
Why don't I explore some of thaton on the Internet or on YouTube
and watch some good stuff? That.
Makes me feel better. Yeah, there's some fantastic
people doing wonderful things. 100% yeah.
And and you're a great example. What is Speaking of, of you and

(02:28:34):
your stuff? What I'll, I'll drop your
website in the comments, but what's your website?
Where can people go to find out more about you and what you're
doing? Oh, OK.
So it's you gain train as in YOUGAINTRA in.com dot AU.

(02:28:55):
So that's the company, you gain training, that's the corporate
training where I take all this stuff and push it into
delivering it in the workplace. The Sole purpose studio is more
just the counselling. That's a Facebook, but I'm just
in the process of making sure I put that also on the website to
say that it's it's the same stuff.

(02:29:16):
It's just because I just thoughtthis is all so important.
If I can go to a workplace and, you know, give people these
tools because they're all peopleand they're all interacting and
they all are on their own individual journey.
So that was the idea behind all of that.
So thank you for that. And I think that would be one of

(02:29:37):
the big shifts, I guess in the corporate world is there's been
that movement away from going, oh, that's all just the stuff
you look at on your own, in yourown time.
You know, I think organisations have started to realise the
advantages of this stuff. I'm going.
Yeah. Something that you know, it's
not just happy, clappy, feel good.

(02:29:59):
This is going to affect my people, my staff, my
productivity, my business in a big, big.
Exactly what it does yeah that'sexactly they're all people They
they want to yeah look after your people and they'll look
after you and you're. So exactly what you said he's
just so right. It used to be you know go after
therapy. But you see a play out.

(02:30:21):
I've seen it over many, many years, people in the workplace
and, and you know, leaders who are pushed into leadership roles
and, and they don't know, they don't know how to deal with
people and they, because they don't know.
But exactly what you said, they're all people.
They're all people working for you.
And they're got their own thingsgoing on, their own beliefs,
their own culture. What is the work culture like?

(02:30:42):
What is your company culture? And you'll soon see what company
culture plays out like. And if the company culture is
not healthy, how does that goingto play out?
I think we all know it's going to play out well.
Yeah, and rightly or wrongly, itall generally starts at the top,
you know, and then flows down. What's at the top?
It philtres all the way down. I have worked, obviously I'm not

(02:31:05):
in my early years. I've worked for many places over
many years. And that's exactly right.
What's the top? Will philtre down?
Always good, better otherwise, yeah.
And again, coming back to what we said earlier, it's not about
working for, you know, the guy or girl in the in the suit and
with the Rolex and the one that looks like they've got their

(02:31:28):
shit together. Yeah.
It's the one that goes, oh, look, you know what?
I really don't know the answer either, but I tell you what,
let's find out together. Like, let's jump in together.
I, I, I don't know the answer myself or, you know, I, I've
struggled with that sort of thing as well.
But you know what, let's jump intogether and see what we can

(02:31:49):
come up with. That's the person that you're
going to jump behind, not the person that's like, I've got the
three piece suit, I've got my shit together.
It's, it's the real person that goes.
Yeah, look, I'm not sure I, I suffer with a lot of that sort
of stuff myself. But hey, let's jump in together
and have a go and see what we can come up with.

(02:32:10):
Have I? Have I disappeared again?
Yeah, you're back now. I'm back.
I'll have to watch the replay tocatch that last.
I was just saying about, you know, the person you're going to
that that's real and that that'snot pretending like they've got
all their shit together. The one that you know, goes is
real and goes, hey, look, you know, I struggle with that sort

(02:32:31):
of thing just the same. But let's jump in together and
see what we can come up with. You know that's.
The that's and and if you yes, if you want a healthy workplace,
have healthy people, you know, don't I've done talks on, you
know, strategic or adaptable communication.
Don't walk past someone in the kitchen and go, Oh, by the way,
can you do overtime next, you know, do be strategic again.

(02:32:53):
What's your what do you want? What are you looking for?
What's your intention? What's the outcome?
Don't berate somebody in front of other people.
I've worked for a place once. Oh, appalling.
He berated his right hand guy infront of absolutely everybody.
I'm so annoyed. I just, that is just appalling
leadership. He was the owner of the company,

(02:33:15):
but that's just disgusting. And so, yeah, don't, you know,
don't if you're going to communicate or if you want to be
more strategic, send someone an email.
So look, I need to talk to you about these things.
Bang, Bang, Bang, Bang. They get the email, you know,
can we make a time for today, maybe 4:00?
So you're sending at 11 in the morning.
They've got it. They're thinking about it.

(02:33:36):
They've looked at it, they've worked at it. 4:00 is good.
They know what you're coming in to talk about.
They've got So when you come in,you don't walk at the door, go,
oh, by the way, these, these, these, they go whoa, whoa, whoa.
Wasn't ready for any of that. They're like, OK, I've looked at
your email. I've had time to think about
what you want to discuss. It's just a whole different
outcome, isn't it, for? Serial kind of approach, yeah,

(02:33:57):
so true, you know, help me help you kind of thing.
It's like let's stick together between us, see what we can come
up with because, you know maybe you've done that but maybe I've
done this as well and between uswe both haven't had you know
ideal behaviours. Maybe we need to we'll try this
and that and and it's respondingrather than reacting that we

(02:34:20):
talked about very early on. It's that time to Yeah, we.
Yeah. And another thing is, you know,
people think conflict is so negative and so bad and they
avoid it at all costs. But there's a thing called
positive conflict, which is fantastic that helps you grow
positive conflict. You know, maybe I am stuck in a

(02:34:40):
rut. Maybe this conflict is
stretching my my thoughts. Maybe it's about looking at
things differently. I don't mean disrespectful and
aggressive, No, But there can bepositive conflict.
No, I don't think we should do it like that anymore.
OK, let's think about that. Are you just being an awful
person who's sick of doing things, or do you actually have
some really good points? So, you know, people avoid

(02:35:03):
conflict, but quite often that'swhere the growth is.
Is. Yeah, 100.
Percent is from that conflict. Again as long.
As it's positive and. Reasonable and constructive.
Yeah. Exactly.
Respectful and, you know, do unto others.
Yeah. Which again comes back to those,

(02:35:23):
really. Simple, basic.
Kind of. Ideals, you know.
It's. People are people, and if.
That's how you treat people, youknow, with respect and dignity.
And and those. Kind of really basic things.
It's not, you know, like a lot of things, it's not rocket
science. It's not, it's not.
And you know, sometimes you'll see somebody and they're really

(02:35:44):
awful. They're just horrible.
And somebody go, this person didthis.
And you go, Yep, that's what they do.
That's that person and it's horrible.
And I often just say I'm just soglad I'm not that person.
I would not like to be living like that person is.
They must have had a lot of stuff go on or going on.
And it would not be very nice being them, not getting them off
the hook. But I'm so glad I'm not them.

(02:36:05):
Yeah, that'd be horrible to be so mean to people on purpose all
the time. You're not in a good place.
No, no, You understand. And I've heard exactly that in
reference to people that are aretrolling other people online.
It's like imagine you've actually gone out of your way to
go to someone and shit on them yes, and to actually like take

(02:36:29):
time, precious time, take the time out of your day and to
actually title to be mean, shit on to someone.
It's like, yeah, wow. And again it's.
Like they're the. People that you look at and go.
So glad I'm. Not you.
So glad that's not how I spend my day, that that's not my
feelings, that I'm not living inthis horrible sort of place.

(02:36:51):
Mentally, that's. I'm just going to be nasty to as
many people as I can. And, and they talk about social
media and the the pros and cons and of course there is a lot of
it's just feeding. Us.
It's fear mongering. It's.
Propaganda. It's we believe what we read.
You know, we talk about propaganda.
Until I was really it was pointed out to me.

(02:37:13):
I just assumed what I was hearing and reading was honest
and real. The truth.
Until somebody says no, they're feeding us what they want us,
and you just go. I'm not being a.
Conspiracy theorist. But when you hear about
propagate, you watch two different television stations,
you know, people watch this and they go no.

(02:37:34):
And then you watch over here andyou go, ah, oh, my goodness,
that's the absolute opposite. Yeah.
Well, did not know there was another side to this story.
Yeah, that's really interesting because we just sort of sit.
Back and go it's. Just what I know it's what again
your beliefs, what do you hear, what do you know, can you change
those? Can you take that on board some

(02:37:55):
change, not to mention I've heard that anything from 50 to
kind of 80% of those in the online?
Example on. Social media 50 to 80% of those
comments are all bots anyway. People are having, so they say,
arguments with. Bots.
Who's in? So they say other than to keep

(02:38:18):
generating your response. And to keep you interacting with
that. Site.
To raise them up. In the algorithm, you know
people have awful business trolling sessions, Yep.
With bots, Yep it. Is.
Extraordinary. We're living really strange
times. I don't.

(02:38:40):
Oh, yeah. And when you say that, when you
hear that, just to go, what? Yeah.
What do they say? Like just because I'm paranoid?
Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not
actually out to. Get me?
It is. It's like God.
Who would have thought? Quite often I'm going Huh, you

(02:39:02):
hear somebody go. Well, who?
Who would have thought? Or they tell you something on
you know that's. Actually.
Come out and you go, huh? That's new.
Yeah, boy. But yeah, taking on the worries.
The world will not do anybody any good.
It does not do yours well being any good.
It's got to keep it. As tidy as you can for your own.
For your own well being, yeah. And look, I hope that even if

(02:39:26):
just one, even if only one person today watches this and.
Takes. One thing away from it that's
positive, whether it's just about like changing their, their
outlook, changing their, their, you know, their, their
perspective on things, focusing more on the positive, you know,
looking at where their attentionis, then you know, like win

(02:39:49):
winning. Absolutely, absolutely couldn't
agree more. And I just pray they forgive us.
Forgive me for all my cutting inand out.
With my audio. But you know, we got there.
That's half the patience. It's a lesson in patience.
Tell them, right? And again, you know, we leave
all that in. We keep it real, you know.
Sorry. Guys and what?

(02:40:10):
You see what you see here? What actually happens?
Cats and copies and everything. I'll go have some lunch or
whatever it is, but Craig. Thanks, they're having me on.
It's been fabulous. I love it.
It's great, always. Love talking to you anyway.
Oh, it's insane. It's been absolutely brilliant
and. Look, I'm no, you're gone again.

(02:40:31):
I think you're back now. I was going to say your audio.
Is. Cutting in and out as well,
talking about technology. So look, it's.
Been I really appreciate you taking.
Time out of your day just to chat.
I really hope somebody will. I know they will, but I just
hope even one person gets their benefit.
What we've spoke. Just take some, just ponder it,
think about it, just go. Maybe that's something I just

(02:40:51):
think about at the very least. And yeah, at the very.
Most, you know, take. It on go I don't work.
With that stuff that they talkedabout today, this might be
really helpful. Yeah.
Well, look, I'm super grateful. I can't thank you enough.
I really, really appreciate it. And we'll have to do it again if
you if you come. Down I'd like to.
We'll continue this conversation.

(02:41:12):
Thank you, Craig, and thank you to everyone.
Will I just push leave studio you?
Just leave studio. Thank you.
Thanks. Bye.
Bye.

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#003 - Sharron Handley

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