May 21, 2024 • 30 mins
This week, we welcome Katie Bogner, a Catholic school teacher and author who is passionate about religious education and catechesis, both in the classroom and in the home. Through her website, social media, and written books, she makes cultivating a Catholic culture in the home attainable and accessible. Katie has also developed resources for the National Eucharistic Pilgrimage and the Eucharistic Revival.
This episode isn't just a conversation; it's an invitation to weave pilgrimage into the fabric of everyday life and to instill in our children a living, breathing faith that grows right alongside them. Katie's insights serve as a reminder that introducing the customs and traditions of faith need not be daunting or perfect, but rather embraced with authenticity and love. This episode is your call to action, to take the steps, no matter how small, towards creating a home where faith is not just learned but lived, leaving you inspired to start your own pilgrimage, right where you are.
Resources & Links:
https://www.looktohimandberadiant.com/
Resources for how to teach Pilgrimage
American Eucharistic Witnesses for Children
Books by Katie
We Have a Pope
Through the Year with Jesus
Through the Year with Mary
All About Advent and Christmas
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to In Via the podcast where we're navigating
the pilgrimage of life.
We are all in via on the wayand we are learning a lot as we
go.
I'm your host, joan Watson.
Join me as we listen to stories, discover travel tips and learn
more about our Catholic faith.
Along the way, we'll see thatif God seeks to meet us in
(00:21):
Jerusalem, rome or Santiago, healso wants to encounter you
right there in your car, on yourrun or in the middle of your
workday.
Do kids belong on pilgrimage?
In today's episode, I speakwith Catholic school teacher and
author, katie Bogner, all abouthow to introduce the idea of
pilgrimage to children and howto incorporate pilgrimages into
(00:44):
your everyday family life.
Katie, I'd love to find outmore about you and some of the
work you do.
Traditionally, I've beenlimiting people to three
sentences, but nobody really islimited to three sentences, so I
just love to find out kind ofwho Katie is and what gives you
passion for the Lord.
What do you do for him in hisvineyard?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
The question is these sentences can they be like St
Paul-length sentences?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Or are they like just kidding?
Okay so.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I am a Catholic school teacher and then also
very involved in my parishformerly a DRE, but we've kind
of combined programs so that'schanged over the years but very
involved in Catholic educationand ministry both on the school
and parish end of things.
As kind of an outpouring ofthat ministry, I have a really
(01:32):
active website where I shareCatholic education resources for
parents and teachers andvolunteer catechists, and so
there's literally like hundredsof free resources for them to
use with kids to help share thebeauty of our faith.
And then I'm also an author.
I've written four soon to befive books for Catholic kids and
their families.
Just like I said, I lovesharing the truth, the goodness
and the beauty of what thechurch offers us and trying to
(01:54):
find ways to get those resourcesin people's hands.
So everything from freeresources online to helping
create, like what I hope arebeautiful, timeless Catholic
children's books.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
I love it, and we will, of course, put everything
in the show notes, so we'll havea link to your website and then
also to the various books,because I think it's so
important to form our young, andnot every parent has the
background in like earlychildhood education, and so I
think sometimes for Catholicparents we can be worried that
we don't even know where tostart in educating our kids in
this Catholic culture.
What I love about yourresources is it's about living
(02:31):
the faith, not just teachingdoctrine but really living and
breathing the Catholic faith,and you do such a beautiful job
with your resources in helpingeverybody, especially those
parents who might not have abackground in early childhood
education know how to introducethat to the family.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, I hope so.
I mean, that's a goal.
My background is in elementaryeducation and I was a cradle
Catholic but didn't go toCatholic school.
Honestly, had our little tinyparish that did the best that
they could with CCD, but itwasn't like I had this, you know
, like wow, I had thisabsolutely amazing Catholic
education.
But what I did have was abeautiful kind of reversion
(03:06):
experience in college.
There were focused missionarieson my campus that really
ignited a fire underneath of meand helped me take kind of take
ownership of my own formation.
And so when I then went back tothat little tiny community and
started teaching public school Iwas first teaching public
school and volunteering in myparish I was just on fire and I
wanted to share all of theseamazing ideas that I had.
(03:28):
And then I did have thisbackground in education and so I
was kind of able to marry thetwo things, if that makes sense,
like passion, this, likenewfound passion for my faith,
and then the formation I hadreceived in my teacher education
.
And as I started like sharingsome of those ideas with my
fellow DREs or other catechists,they were like Katie, you've
got to, like like, can you getme a copy of that I really want
to try that at my parish and tome it was just like it was just
(03:51):
a gift that was kind of flowingout of me, and so it was then a
gift in return to be able tojust share it openly with people
, if that makes sense.
So I want parents to feelequipped to share their faith
with their kids because they'retheir first catechist, their
most important catechist.
But I understand at the sametime that sometimes it's hard to
know how to say things, or whento say and how much to say, and
(04:12):
so it's a privilege to be ableto help be like creating
resources that help thoseconversations hopefully come
more naturally, just kind ofbecome of the culture of a
family.
And then same thing, like ourteachers, whether you're a
volunteer catechist in a parishor you're in a Catholic school
classroom, there's a lot I mean,like you know, we have 2000
years plus, of course, ofhistory right to share with our
(04:33):
kids, and so we're always alllooking for resources to help do
that in the best way wepossibly can.
So it's a privilege to be atiny little drop in that bucket
of what's going on currently inCatholic education.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Well, I've seen your resources, I've seen your
website.
I think you're bigger than atiny drop, because just the
amount of resources and thatgenerosity of spirit to give
those and to just that charityand that generosity, just thank
you for giving of yourself.
You could tell it's a passion,and my mom was an elementary
school teacher and she alwaystalks about making her bulletin
(05:07):
boards and your bulletin boardsare just stunning.
I'm like you're puttingeverybody else like if everyone
just copies Katie, but it's justbeautiful.
And I want to talk a little bitmore about that Catholic
culture and that living thefaith, because some people are
getting it.
If your kids are in publicschools, you have a big burden
to then raise those kidsCatholic.
(05:29):
But even if your kids are inCatholic schools, that's not
enough.
I mean, I like to say I went toCatholic schools from pre-K to
master's and I'm not Catholicbecause of my Catholic schools,
I'm Catholic because of myfamily and to bring that
Catholic culture and to livethat faith.
And so what I'm really excitedis that you've made resources
for the Eucharistic pilgrimage.
(05:51):
We talked to Will Peterson afew episodes ago about this
National Eucharistic pilgrimage.
It may be going throughpeople's front yards but it
might not, and I think as achurch we have a responsibility
to bring this Catholic culture,to bring this aspect of Catholic
culture back into the UnitedStates culture.
And so you did that byproviding resources, by creating
(06:11):
resources for families and forschools.
So could you talk a little bitabout how you got involved and
what those resources look like?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, sure.
So, gosh, I would have to thinkback.
It would have been a couple ofyears ago when we were first
kind of hearing about theNational Eucharistic Revival.
And you know, like our diocese,you know, had like a meeting
where we're supposed to sendparish leaders to be trained and
things like that.
So I remember going to one ofthose first meetings and they
said you know, does anyone haveany questions?
Et cetera.
So I, you know, stood up andasked I said this is amazing,
(06:40):
like the, you know, the graphicsare incredible, the plan looks
solid.
I said are you?
Do you know, are there anyplans to create resources for
kids?
Because if not, that's a,that's a missed opportunity.
And one, one of the Eucharist,one of the national Eucharistic
preachers, happens to be apriest in our diocese.
So he was the one who wasfielding questions and he said
that that's a really greatquestion and he's like I don't
(07:03):
have anything right now.
You know, I don't know ofanything right now, but I'm
definitely going to take thatback to them.
And then, about a month later,I got a call from the editor of
the Heart of the Revivalnewsletter and said, hey, so
your name got given to me and soone.
You know, as we all know,sometimes when you ask a
question you end up being partof the solution and so, but it
(07:24):
was a great honor, so I wasinvited to help create resources
to be part of that.
If you have, whether you'resubscribing to the Heart of the
Revival newsletter or you gocheck out the blog portion of
the National Eucharistic Revivalwebsite, they have this
wonderful blog where people arewriting.
You know, different priests arewriting reflections on very
specific minute parts of themass, and then people are
(07:45):
writing in personal reflectionsabout experiences they've had
with the Eucharist.
And then I have also been ableto create books, children's
content.
So right now we're doing a bigpush on Eucharistic saints, so
men and women who lived in theUnited States of America, who
had a Eucharistic lifestyle andbreaking down.
There's been a guest who haswritten a biography about each
(08:05):
of those people, who's kind ofan expert, and then I'm taking
that biography and distilling itdown into like two different
reading levels, so like a, likeyou know, maybe like a middle
school and down to a lowerelementary, and creating
activities to go along with it.
So when all of the plansstarted to come out about the
pilgrimage.
I'm like, well, same thing, wegot to take advantage of this,
like we got to teach kids aboutwhat's going on.
(08:26):
Like you said, joan, some ofthese paths are going to go
right through their cities andthey should know about it, and
so I made some resources to helpkids learn about the like.
What is pilgrimage about?
Specifically the NationalEucharistic Pilgrimage, and then
hoping, like kind of, to invitefamilies to join in in whatever
way that may be, whether it'slike physically going to one of
those locations and joining inor making a more personal
(08:50):
pilgrimage, local to them.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
That's what I loved.
There were a few resources thatreally hit close to home for me
.
One of them was the passport,the stamp, where you actually
make your own little passportbook and you can stamp your
child's passport.
You know, depending ondifferent stages, that's
something that can be doneanywhere.
You don't have to do it on thenational pilgrimage, and I was
actually on a walking pilgrimagea few weeks ago and the kids
were getting their passportstamped and I was like I want a
passport, I want to get mypassport stamped.
(09:18):
There's something about that.
But just your encouragement inthose resources that this can be
something very local and veryordinary and very
family-centered.
Maybe it's going to your ownparish, maybe it's going to a
different parish you've neverbeen to, but how to bring that
idea of pilgrimage very close tohome and very intimate to the
children?
And I think that's somethingthat even adults need to learn
(09:41):
that pilgrimage doesn't need tobe overseas.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthe idea of a local pilgrimage
rather than this biginternational pilgrimage?
Yeah, I think sometimes you'reright.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
We hear like, oh, I'm going on a pilgrimage, and you
say, oh, my goodness, are yougoing to Europe?
What are you doing?
But really, I mean a pilgrimageis, it's a, it's like a
foundation of our heart, right,we're all on pilgrimage to
heaven in this, you know, hugeway.
But also, like, pilgrimage canbe very small and very personal
and it doesn't have to involvelong distances.
It really is more of adisposition where, if you have
(10:13):
an intention, where, if you havean intention, you know and you
purposely travel like and youknow there's a great way to like
incorporate different aspectsof pilgrimage, like trying to
work in some walking, trying towork in a specific, you know,
going to a different location.
But it really could be like youcan go on pilgrimage to your
own parish.
You can go on.
Maybe your parish has anoutdoor set of stations of the
(10:34):
cross, for example, or a rosarygarden.
You can go on pilgrimage tothat location.
So, for families, I think thatit's really good to remember
that this does not have to beanything grand, it does not need
to require a lot of planning,it doesn't need to be time
consuming or cover great costs.
It really could be.
Hey, we usually go to Saturdaynight mass.
(10:54):
One day this week we're goingto go to the Wednesday night
mass and we usually go toSaturday night mass.
One day this week we're gonnago to the Wednesday night mass
and we're gonna all set aspecific prayer intention and go
together as a family.
I mean, it could be that italso could be.
There are so many beautifulchurches in our country and, in
addition to that, so manybeautiful shrines, places of
prayer like beautiful statuesthat have different, that
(11:15):
sometimes we don't associatewith, like places of prayer,
like beautiful, you know,statues that have different.
You know that that sometimes wedon't associate with, like, oh,
that's like a trip, so like,for example, like in my town
there's a, there's a church thatis no longer in regular use,
but it's in this beautiful,quiet cemetery.
So like you could, you know,you could make a plan to go
there and pray there.
So I think it's good forfamilies to know that it doesn't
(11:36):
have to be something big grand,take a lot of time, but if you,
you know, can set an intention,go there with your family,
whether you're walking ordriving or biking or whatever it
may be to go and visit.
But you also, you know we planvacations right, and so you also
can incorporate some of thataspect of pilgrimage into your
family culture.
Maybe you really do plan a triparound one of those places and
(11:58):
it might be in conjunction withanother trip.
You know, maybe you're going toa national park or you're going
to, you know, whatever it mightbe.
But you check out along theroute and find out, hey, are
there any cool shrines, arethere any basilicas in that area
?
Are there any?
You know any?
You know whatever it might be,and maybe you do really make a
trip specifically to see one ofthose sites, and what a
memorable thing that will be forthe kids that you know.
(12:20):
Oh yeah, on our family vacationwhen I was in fourth grade, we
went to, we went to Wisconsinand saw the place where there's
the only approved Marianapparition in the whole United
States.
Like you can do something bigand memorable as well.
So make it small, make it big,but I think it's important to
know that it's totally somethinga family can do.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, just thinking about what that tells a child if
you do incorporate it into yourregular family vacation, how
children learn so much more fromthe things that aren't spoken
sometimes.
And if you incorporatesomething like that into your
family vacation, you're teachingyour child that this is
important.
You're teaching your child thatthe Catholic culture is
everywhere, that Catholics arein Wisconsin just as much as
(12:59):
they are in our own hometown.
And just what you teach yourchildren through making, yes,
sunday Mass a priority, but thenalso teaching them about the
church in America.
In this way, you don't have tosit down with a lesson plan for
them, but you're teachingthrough your normal everyday
family life.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, and also just to take advantage of when you do
visit those new churches,whether you're on vacation and,
like you said, you prioritizeSunday mass, or one time I have
it's not a bad habit, but a badhabit of like, if I'm traveling,
I love road tripping.
I'm from the Midwest, we driveeverywhere and if I see a
steeple I'm like and I have time, I'm going to stop and I'm
going to see if that church isunlocked.
(13:38):
And one time a friend and I wewere younger back then and we
were driving from Colorado backto Illinois and we stopped at
every steeple we saw on I-70.
And let's just say we didn'tactually end up sleeping that
night because it took it addedquite a bit of time, but it was
beautiful because almost everychurch was unlocked and so we
were able to go in and pray ateach place.
(13:59):
So it also could just be thatlike driving past a beautiful
church and taking theopportunity, like hey, we're
going to, we're going to get outof the van for a minute, like
let's just go see, and thendoing the good old Catholic
trick of checking the side doorsright To see if those are the
onesernacle you know, say aquick prayer and then take, I
mean even five minutes to lookabout, look around the beautiful
(14:20):
architecture and statues andstained glass windows.
So sometimes too, the pilgrimageitself might just be time
within the church.
Maybe it's at your own parishyou stay after for five or 10
minutes and let your kidsactually get up you know now
that mass is over and go walk upclose to the sanctuary.
Or or go actually walk aroundand get really close to the
(14:42):
statues and let them look andand and ask questions.
And so I think, using some ofthe beauty that we have present
in our, in our churches, andallowing them to catechize
because that's what they're for,right, like that's why our
churches are designed the waythey are.
That can also be a way of doingpilgrimage as a family.
That is very attainable, butalso very memorable, very, very
(15:05):
memorable.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
We talk on this podcast and we talk at Verso
about the difference between avacation and a pilgrimage and I
wondered if you could talk alittle bit about field trip
versus pilgrimage, because Iknow you've taken pilgrimages as
a school teacher and what doesthat look like and how is that
different than just taking afield trip somewhere?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, so I happen to.
I teach in Peoria and I'vetaught in the Peoria Diocese my
whole career and so we havetaken like I think I would have
to go back and have to somewherearound the past 10 or 12 years
I've taken my students onpilgrimage to our local
cathedral, which every Catholicteacher, catechist or honestly
anyone I highly recommend youtake a pilgrimage to your
(15:49):
cathedral because it's your homechurch of your diocese, like
your children should visit there, whether it's really nearby or
maybe you have to drive a littleways to get there.
Like that would be a worthwhiletrip to take.
So we did that and it was allconnected.
So about 12 years ago I startedteaching my students about
Venerable Fulton Sheen, who I'msure most people are at least
familiar with by name.
(16:09):
So he is local to our diocese,grew up here and was ordained a
priest in our diocese before hewent on to his you know,
national TV fame and so Istarted teaching them about his
life and as we were studying I'mlike, well, we, we should like
go, we should go hop around allthe sites locally.
This is, you know, this is kindof a once in a lifetime thing
to have a maybe future saintright in our backyard.
(16:31):
And so the very first year Iwas younger and crazierzier and
we just like, we just made aplan and we drove.
So we drove to El Paso,illinois, which is where his
baptismal church of register,and we went there and the priest
was so excited to have us so wehad like a holy half hour and
(16:51):
got to go in and visit where youknow, see the font where he was
baptized.
And then we drove into Peoriaand got to see the museum where
they have many, many artifactsfrom his life, and learn more
about him there, and then wentto the cathedral and prayed
where he was an altar server andwas ordained a priest.
And then now, years later, hisbody has now been moved back and
is in tomb there, so we canactually pray at his tomb.
And it was really cool toprepare my students for that
(17:13):
trip, because those were fifthgraders, they were, you know, 11
.
And to talk about how I mean westill had fun.
Trust me, we had a lot of fun.
I actually set it up like ascavenger hunt and so everywhere
, every stop we went to, theygot a clue and they had to
figure out where we were goingnext.
And they were, oh my gosh, assoon as they like unscrambled
the clue or solved it orwhatever they like would run for
(17:34):
the bus like ready to go to thenext place.
So it didn't have to be.
It wasn't like somber andserious the whole time.
It was still fun and joyful andkid centered.
But it was all completely basedaround his life and they I when
they, some of those kids are nowin college and so, like when I,
like you know, saw them attheir graduation parties in high
school, or when they like wroteme notes afterwards, they're
(17:56):
like that Fulton Sheenpilgrimage or that Fulton Fulton
Sheen field trip was the bestfield trip we ever went on,
because it was, it was different, it was unique and they knew
that there was somethingimportant about it.
So we, you know, we also got insome prayer time in both of the
churches.
They got a, you know, a areally like up close and
personal tour of the cathedraland got to pray there.
(18:18):
So yeah, so that's kind of thesummary.
So I've done a lot of thingslike that with my students and a
couple of things I try to do tosort of set the tone is remind
them like we're still going tohave fun and we're still going
to do all of these other things.
But we do need to enter intothis, like we're not going to
Six Flags, we are going to thesebeautiful holy places, and so
we often try to come up with anintention ahead of time, so
(18:40):
something that they want to prayfor either throughout the whole
day, ideally, or at least anintention to take when we get to
that final place, when we getto the cathedral and they have
some time to pray.
We often would also try to workin some type of prayer and that
looks different based on yourschedule.
So for some that might thatmight be like mass in one of the
locations.
We, like I said, we often wouldget to do like a little holy
(19:01):
half hour or holy 20 minutes insome of the churches.
Sometimes we would arrive andthen we would pray a rosary
together.
So it kind of depended on theschedule, of course, but we
always try to work, incorporateprayer into it and then also
just this and this is somethingthat takes time in like whether
it's family culture or classroomculture but sort of fostering
that like air of reverence inthese places that you're going
(19:23):
to, that we're not, we're notjust touring a historic building
like we're going into the houseof God, and so we would always
preface with some of the justgeneral reverence and respect
guidelines that kids sometimesneed reminded of, but, honestly,
it didn't usually take muchcoaching.
Usually, once we were there,they understood that this place
is different.
This isn't just a buildingwe're going to walk in, it's not
(19:44):
a museum, it's like the living,breathing house of God and so,
yeah, so those are some of thebig things that I think can take
something from feeling like atour to actually feeling like a
pilgrimage.
Is that intentionality ofprayer, encouraging them to have
something specific that they'repraying for the whole day, like
whether it's you know, mygrandma is sick, or I'm worried
about changing schools next year, or you know things like that
(20:07):
to have something specific topray for, and then also trying
to help cultivate that, thatculture of reverence, which I
think is really important andkids are completely capable of.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
So often we yeah, we don't give kids enough credit
and I think, on all of this, we,we think you know they're
they're not capable ofunderstanding this, that they're
not capable of of of, you know,behaving correctly, or they're
not capable of understandingthis, that they're not capable
of behaving correctly, orthey're not capable of wrapping
their minds around this concept.
And I had a Nashville Dominicanfriend who used to say if kids
can memorize every dinosaur'sname, they can memorize the
(20:41):
things that we use at mass,right, the names of the items at
mass.
And we just don't give kidsenough credit sometimes and we
forget that actually theyhaven't been as tainted by the
world as we have.
They probably maybe have betterattention spans than we do now,
right, possibly.
And so just allowing yourselfto give your kids a chance to
enter into this and see how theydo.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah, I mean also, like the church is for everyone.
There isn't like a you don'thave to pass a, you know like a
test or an age limit or whateverit might be, and I think just
the um, the ID to, and you, youreally hit on that well, joan,
and that like we're kind ofwe're walking alongside, whether
it's your children or yourstudents, or walking alongside
them in this journey of faith,this pilgrimage to heaven.
(21:24):
We're not, like you know,bringing them along, or we're
not like you know bringing themalong or we're not coaching them
.
I don't know, I'm not wordingthat quite right, just to just a
reminder that like they havedeeply unique spiritual lives
and prayer lives and and theyare so close to the Lord and
sometimes it just doesn't lookthe same as it does in an
adult's life, and so we oftenthink like, oh well, they're not
, you know they can't do X, y orZ, but really they maybe should
(21:47):
be the ones who are teaching ussometimes.
And so never, ever, ever beafraid to, you know, to take
your young ones on a trip likethat, or to bring them to Mass
at a cathedral or and you knowwe need to be have age
appropriate expectations, youknow, like whatever that may be,
like a, but we also don't needto water down the faith, like we
need to bring it to them in away that is digestible and
(22:10):
understandable for them andappropriate for their age and
abilities.
But we also don't need toweaken it or make it something
it's not because they'reperfectly capable of
participating in the fullness ofthe.
You know the life of the church.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah, yeah, they're just.
They're on this pilgrimage withus, they're not just along for
the ride.
I like when John Paul II usedto say the youth aren't the
future of the church, becausethey are the church now and this
idea that they can have deepspiritual lives I mean, jesus
told us to be like children fora reason, and just on this
pilgrimage journey, actuallymaybe we're learning from them
(22:45):
sometimes.
To tell you the truth, katie,what you said about pilgrimage
is what we tell our adults it'snot just going to be somber,
we're going to have fun andbring an intention.
And so we tell the same thingsat Verso, when we go to Fatima,
right, we tell our adults, don'tworry, we're going to have fun
and bring an intention, but bereverent.
(23:06):
So it's not that different,just as we kind of finish up.
I kind of want to return andyou've spoken about this, but I
also want to return to this ideathat pilgrimage is for everyone
, because I think a lot of times, especially working for a
pilgrimage company where maybe alot of our pilgrims are older
and retired and now they havethe chance to travel
(23:27):
internationally I thinksometimes pilgrimage can get
chalked up to something retiredpeople do and something crazy
adventurous people do that aregoing to go walk the Camino.
But we see that pilgrimage isfor everyone, and we've seen
that pilgrimages are forfamilies, and so can you talk a
little bit about what, and maybein developing your resources
for the Eucharistic pilgrimageas well?
(23:48):
How do we bring children topilgrimage and why is pilgrimage
so important?
To teach even young children.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Well, I think that kind of like to summarize some
of the things we've already saidin our conversation and that,
like this, is just kind of a wayof life for us as Catholics,
and it doesn't have to be bigand it doesn't have to be time
consuming, it doesn't have to beinternational, it doesn't have
to be big and it doesn't have tobe time consuming, it doesn't
have to be international.
Some of it is just theintentionality and explaining to
kids ahead of time, like whyyou know why you're going to go
(24:16):
to a mass in a differentlocation this week, instead of
just loading them up and, youknow, strapping them into the
van and going be.
Like hey, actually you know, weheard that there's going to be
this cool relic that's visitingthis neighboring parish and so
we're going to go to that massso we can go and pray with the
relic of this saint and then onyour on the way, maybe you turn
on a podcast and learn a littlebit about that saint.
So the kids are ready to go, um, and you go and you pray there.
So sometimes I think that it isum like inviting them along for
(24:39):
the journey in that way, ifthat makes sense.
Um, I also think that it's goodto remember that you can do
this in like small ways.
So let's let's just say, forinstance, that the, the national
Eucharistic pilgrimage is goingto be somewhere near you and
you decide as a family thatyou're going to.
You know you are, you're notgoing to be able to go and walk
for the days and weeks that theactual, you know the pilgrims
are going to take as they begintheir routes and and and in
(25:02):
Indianapolis.
But maybe you go and you youwalk for 15 minutes with them,
or you find out one of theparishes that they'll be, you
know that they'll be going to,and you and you join, you know,
towards the end of thatprocession.
Speaking of that, I think thatEucharistic processions I hope
anyway it seems to me have beenon the rise since the beginning
of the National EucharisticRevival.
(25:22):
And so Eucharistic procession,you know, if you're not familiar
with those, a priest will takethe Blessed Sacrament in a
monstrance and will be walked.
It might be just around theproperty of a parish, it might
be through a whole neighborhood,it might be from town to town,
and so that's all connected withthis whole Eucharistic
pilgrimage.
But maybe keep an eye out,especially with Corpus Christi
(25:44):
Sunday coming up or over thesummer, it seems to be a little
more of a popular time forEucharistic processions, to join
a procession and do that withyour kids, like, oh, like it's.
I mean it's like it's a paradefor Jesus.
There's incense and there'sbells and they're singing and
there's people.
I mean like there is nothingmore kid friendly in the world.
It's like perfect for them.
So finding things that you feelyou know ready to do as a family
(26:08):
, like pop pop.
So finding things that you feelyou know ready to do as a any
shrines or maybe there's even,even if it's not a particularly,
(26:30):
you know remarkable orwell-known church, maybe there's
a church along the way that hasis named after a saint that is
important to your family.
You know a name saint of one ofyour children, or you know just
one of their favorites, or thesaint that one of your children
is choosing as theirconfirmation saint, for example,
and make an intentional trip togo and stop at that church and
(26:51):
pray and ask for theintercession of those saints.
There's so many little ways.
We have like infinitepossibilities to work that
pilgrimage into our lives asfamilies and I really think that
it can make all the differencefor kids when they start to see
that Catholicism is like livingand breathing, and all around
them, not just something thatthey do for an hour on Sunday
(27:11):
morning.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yes, and I think that's the key right, that it's
a way of life and it shouldtouch all aspects of our lives,
and that I know that you hadresources as well on May
processions and May crownings,and like I thought of that when
you were talking about theEucharistic procession, some of
my fondest memories growing upare of our May procession and
what girl got to crown theBlessed Mother, and just that
(27:35):
experience, that tangibleexperience.
Like you said, there's nothingbetter for kids than, okay,
we're going to walk, we're goingto get out of the pew and walk
right, you get to sing, you getto throw flowers, you know, like
all the senses that are engaged.
And so I think that's why itappeals to us as adults, because
it's kind of that inner childwho doesn't want to parade for
(27:56):
Jesus right, or parade for hismother.
So I love this kind ofreclaiming this Catholic culture
for our kids.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah, absolutely, and that made me think of one other
thing with that.
If you are listening to this andyou're someone maybe on the
parish end of things, maybe makean intentional invite, even
though you know you maybe haveyou know you do a Eucharistic
procession every summer or maybeyou, you know you always do a
May crowning this time of year.
Maybe make an like, anintentional push or an
intentional invite to yourfamilies.
(28:26):
Make it well known that thoseevents are family friendly and
you want babies in strollersbeing pushed in the Eucharistic
procession, just to make surethat sometimes it can be hard
for families with young kids tofeel welcome, whether that is a
perception they have ofsomething that's happened in the
past in the parish.
Or maybe they just say like, oh, there's no way we could handle
that.
It's an hour long, are youkidding me?
(28:47):
But if they find out, like,actually, really, this is what's
going to happen.
You know we're going to walkand we're going to sing and you
can come for this much and go.
If you need to Make it wellknown and if you can make those
things as family friendly aspossible, get kids involved,
make it possible for your often,you know make different
accommodations for the elderlyin our parishes to be able to
(29:10):
still participate in things.
Let's also do the same thingwith our families with young
kids too.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
I love that.
I love that, and if you are inthe parish side, you know,
provide these resources, freeresources.
Maybe have a link in your, youre, -newsletter, or like print
out some for your bulletin sothat families can prepare their
kids ahead of time and that wecan really enter into this as
the whole body of Christ.
I love, I love that.
Yep, you got it, I'm here forit.
(29:37):
Well, thank you, Katie.
We will put all a bunch oflinks in the show notes so you
can find Katie, you can find herwork, you can benefit from her
work.
Do you have any closingthoughts or any last things you
want to say as we wrap up?
Oh gosh, we talked about.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
We hit a lot on a lot of things.
I think, just yeah, just toreiterate, to like bring your
kids along on the journey ofyour faith, like it's not
something that you need to waitfor, like they will.
They will catch the fire ofCatholicism by living it
together as a family.
So bring them along withanything that is new and
exciting, like they're going tolove it.
So just don't be afraid to trynew things with them.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah, I love it.
It doesn't have to be perfect,it doesn't have to be
Instagrammable.
Just do it and do your best andthey'll love it.
They'll love it.
Well, thank you, katie.
Thanks for joining us.
Thank you, listeners.
Share this episode with someoneyou or maybe you have, you know
, a grandmother who watches hergrandkids.
Share this with someone whoneeds this, who would benefit
(30:34):
from this, so that they know howto kind of begin to bring that
Catholic culture back into ourfamilies, into our schools and
into our parishes.
God bless.
Welcome to In Via the podcast where we're navigating
the pilgrimage of life.
We are all in via on the wayand we are learning a lot as we
go.
I'm your host, joan Watson.
Join me as we listen to stories, discover travel tips and learn
more about our Catholic faith.
Along the way, we'll see thatif God seeks to meet us in
(00:21):
Jerusalem, rome or Santiago, healso wants to encounter you
right there in your car, on yourrun or in the middle of your
workday.
Do kids belong on pilgrimage?
In today's episode, I speakwith Catholic school teacher and
author, katie Bogner, all abouthow to introduce the idea of
pilgrimage to children and howto incorporate pilgrimages into
(00:44):
your everyday family life.
Katie, I'd love to find outmore about you and some of the
work you do.
Traditionally, I've beenlimiting people to three
sentences, but nobody really islimited to three sentences, so I
just love to find out kind ofwho Katie is and what gives you
passion for the Lord.
What do you do for him in hisvineyard?
Speaker 2 (01:04):
The question is these sentences can they be like St
Paul-length sentences?
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Or are they like just kidding?
Okay so.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
I am a Catholic school teacher and then also
very involved in my parishformerly a DRE, but we've kind
of combined programs so that'schanged over the years but very
involved in Catholic educationand ministry both on the school
and parish end of things.
As kind of an outpouring ofthat ministry, I have a really
(01:32):
active website where I shareCatholic education resources for
parents and teachers andvolunteer catechists, and so
there's literally like hundredsof free resources for them to
use with kids to help share thebeauty of our faith.
And then I'm also an author.
I've written four soon to befive books for Catholic kids and
their families.
Just like I said, I lovesharing the truth, the goodness
and the beauty of what thechurch offers us and trying to
(01:54):
find ways to get those resourcesin people's hands.
So everything from freeresources online to helping
create, like what I hope arebeautiful, timeless Catholic
children's books.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
I love it, and we will, of course, put everything
in the show notes, so we'll havea link to your website and then
also to the various books,because I think it's so
important to form our young, andnot every parent has the
background in like earlychildhood education, and so I
think sometimes for Catholicparents we can be worried that
we don't even know where tostart in educating our kids in
this Catholic culture.
What I love about yourresources is it's about living
(02:31):
the faith, not just teachingdoctrine but really living and
breathing the Catholic faith,and you do such a beautiful job
with your resources in helpingeverybody, especially those
parents who might not have abackground in early childhood
education know how to introducethat to the family.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah, I hope so.
I mean, that's a goal.
My background is in elementaryeducation and I was a cradle
Catholic but didn't go toCatholic school.
Honestly, had our little tinyparish that did the best that
they could with CCD, but itwasn't like I had this, you know
, like wow, I had thisabsolutely amazing Catholic
education.
But what I did have was abeautiful kind of reversion
(03:06):
experience in college.
There were focused missionarieson my campus that really
ignited a fire underneath of meand helped me take kind of take
ownership of my own formation.
And so when I then went back tothat little tiny community and
started teaching public school Iwas first teaching public
school and volunteering in myparish I was just on fire and I
wanted to share all of theseamazing ideas that I had.
(03:28):
And then I did have thisbackground in education and so I
was kind of able to marry thetwo things, if that makes sense,
like passion, this, likenewfound passion for my faith,
and then the formation I hadreceived in my teacher education
.
And as I started like sharingsome of those ideas with my
fellow DREs or other catechists,they were like Katie, you've
got to, like like, can you getme a copy of that I really want
to try that at my parish and tome it was just like it was just
(03:51):
a gift that was kind of flowingout of me, and so it was then a
gift in return to be able tojust share it openly with people
, if that makes sense.
So I want parents to feelequipped to share their faith
with their kids because they'retheir first catechist, their
most important catechist.
But I understand at the sametime that sometimes it's hard to
know how to say things, or whento say and how much to say, and
(04:12):
so it's a privilege to be ableto help be like creating
resources that help thoseconversations hopefully come
more naturally, just kind ofbecome of the culture of a
family.
And then same thing, like ourteachers, whether you're a
volunteer catechist in a parishor you're in a Catholic school
classroom, there's a lot I mean,like you know, we have 2000
years plus, of course, ofhistory right to share with our
(04:33):
kids, and so we're always alllooking for resources to help do
that in the best way wepossibly can.
So it's a privilege to be atiny little drop in that bucket
of what's going on currently inCatholic education.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Well, I've seen your resources, I've seen your
website.
I think you're bigger than atiny drop, because just the
amount of resources and thatgenerosity of spirit to give
those and to just that charityand that generosity, just thank
you for giving of yourself.
You could tell it's a passion,and my mom was an elementary
school teacher and she alwaystalks about making her bulletin
(05:07):
boards and your bulletin boardsare just stunning.
I'm like you're puttingeverybody else like if everyone
just copies Katie, but it's justbeautiful.
And I want to talk a little bitmore about that Catholic
culture and that living thefaith, because some people are
getting it.
If your kids are in publicschools, you have a big burden
to then raise those kidsCatholic.
(05:29):
But even if your kids are inCatholic schools, that's not
enough.
I mean, I like to say I went toCatholic schools from pre-K to
master's and I'm not Catholicbecause of my Catholic schools,
I'm Catholic because of myfamily and to bring that
Catholic culture and to livethat faith.
And so what I'm really excitedis that you've made resources
for the Eucharistic pilgrimage.
(05:51):
We talked to Will Peterson afew episodes ago about this
National Eucharistic pilgrimage.
It may be going throughpeople's front yards but it
might not, and I think as achurch we have a responsibility
to bring this Catholic culture,to bring this aspect of Catholic
culture back into the UnitedStates culture.
And so you did that byproviding resources, by creating
(06:11):
resources for families and forschools.
So could you talk a little bitabout how you got involved and
what those resources look like?
Speaker 2 (06:17):
Yeah, sure.
So, gosh, I would have to thinkback.
It would have been a couple ofyears ago when we were first
kind of hearing about theNational Eucharistic Revival.
And you know, like our diocese,you know, had like a meeting
where we're supposed to sendparish leaders to be trained and
things like that.
So I remember going to one ofthose first meetings and they
said you know, does anyone haveany questions?
Et cetera.
So I, you know, stood up andasked I said this is amazing,
(06:40):
like the, you know, the graphicsare incredible, the plan looks
solid.
I said are you?
Do you know, are there anyplans to create resources for
kids?
Because if not, that's a,that's a missed opportunity.
And one, one of the Eucharist,one of the national Eucharistic
preachers, happens to be apriest in our diocese.
So he was the one who wasfielding questions and he said
that that's a really greatquestion and he's like I don't
(07:03):
have anything right now.
You know, I don't know ofanything right now, but I'm
definitely going to take thatback to them.
And then, about a month later,I got a call from the editor of
the Heart of the Revivalnewsletter and said, hey, so
your name got given to me and soone.
You know, as we all know,sometimes when you ask a
question you end up being partof the solution and so, but it
(07:24):
was a great honor, so I wasinvited to help create resources
to be part of that.
If you have, whether you'resubscribing to the Heart of the
Revival newsletter or you gocheck out the blog portion of
the National Eucharistic Revivalwebsite, they have this
wonderful blog where people arewriting.
You know, different priests arewriting reflections on very
specific minute parts of themass, and then people are
(07:45):
writing in personal reflectionsabout experiences they've had
with the Eucharist.
And then I have also been ableto create books, children's
content.
So right now we're doing a bigpush on Eucharistic saints, so
men and women who lived in theUnited States of America, who
had a Eucharistic lifestyle andbreaking down.
There's been a guest who haswritten a biography about each
(08:05):
of those people, who's kind ofan expert, and then I'm taking
that biography and distilling itdown into like two different
reading levels, so like a, likeyou know, maybe like a middle
school and down to a lowerelementary, and creating
activities to go along with it.
So when all of the plansstarted to come out about the
pilgrimage.
I'm like, well, same thing, wegot to take advantage of this,
like we got to teach kids aboutwhat's going on.
(08:26):
Like you said, joan, some ofthese paths are going to go
right through their cities andthey should know about it, and
so I made some resources to helpkids learn about the like.
What is pilgrimage about?
Specifically the NationalEucharistic Pilgrimage, and then
hoping, like kind of, to invitefamilies to join in in whatever
way that may be, whether it'slike physically going to one of
those locations and joining inor making a more personal
(08:50):
pilgrimage, local to them.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
That's what I loved.
There were a few resources thatreally hit close to home for me
.
One of them was the passport,the stamp, where you actually
make your own little passportbook and you can stamp your
child's passport.
You know, depending ondifferent stages, that's
something that can be doneanywhere.
You don't have to do it on thenational pilgrimage, and I was
actually on a walking pilgrimagea few weeks ago and the kids
were getting their passportstamped and I was like I want a
passport, I want to get mypassport stamped.
(09:18):
There's something about that.
But just your encouragement inthose resources that this can be
something very local and veryordinary and very
family-centered.
Maybe it's going to your ownparish, maybe it's going to a
different parish you've neverbeen to, but how to bring that
idea of pilgrimage very close tohome and very intimate to the
children?
And I think that's somethingthat even adults need to learn
(09:41):
that pilgrimage doesn't need tobe overseas.
Can you talk a little bit aboutthe idea of a local pilgrimage
rather than this biginternational pilgrimage?
Yeah, I think sometimes you'reright.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
We hear like, oh, I'm going on a pilgrimage, and you
say, oh, my goodness, are yougoing to Europe?
What are you doing?
But really, I mean a pilgrimageis, it's a, it's like a
foundation of our heart, right,we're all on pilgrimage to
heaven in this, you know, hugeway.
But also, like, pilgrimage canbe very small and very personal
and it doesn't have to involvelong distances.
It really is more of adisposition where, if you have
(10:13):
an intention, where, if you havean intention, you know and you
purposely travel like and youknow there's a great way to like
incorporate different aspectsof pilgrimage, like trying to
work in some walking, trying towork in a specific, you know,
going to a different location.
But it really could be like youcan go on pilgrimage to your
own parish.
You can go on.
Maybe your parish has anoutdoor set of stations of the
(10:34):
cross, for example, or a rosarygarden.
You can go on pilgrimage tothat location.
So, for families, I think thatit's really good to remember
that this does not have to beanything grand, it does not need
to require a lot of planning,it doesn't need to be time
consuming or cover great costs.
It really could be.
Hey, we usually go to Saturdaynight mass.
(10:54):
One day this week we're goingto go to the Wednesday night
mass and we usually go toSaturday night mass.
One day this week we're gonnago to the Wednesday night mass
and we're gonna all set aspecific prayer intention and go
together as a family.
I mean, it could be that italso could be.
There are so many beautifulchurches in our country and, in
addition to that, so manybeautiful shrines, places of
prayer like beautiful statuesthat have different, that
(11:15):
sometimes we don't associatewith, like places of prayer,
like beautiful, you know,statues that have different.
You know that that sometimes wedon't associate with, like, oh,
that's like a trip, so like,for example, like in my town
there's a, there's a church thatis no longer in regular use,
but it's in this beautiful,quiet cemetery.
So like you could, you know,you could make a plan to go
there and pray there.
So I think it's good forfamilies to know that it doesn't
(11:36):
have to be something big grand,take a lot of time, but if you,
you know, can set an intention,go there with your family,
whether you're walking ordriving or biking or whatever it
may be to go and visit.
But you also, you know we planvacations right, and so you also
can incorporate some of thataspect of pilgrimage into your
family culture.
Maybe you really do plan a triparound one of those places and
(11:58):
it might be in conjunction withanother trip.
You know, maybe you're going toa national park or you're going
to, you know, whatever it mightbe.
But you check out along theroute and find out, hey, are
there any cool shrines, arethere any basilicas in that area
?
Are there any?
You know any?
You know whatever it might be,and maybe you do really make a
trip specifically to see one ofthose sites, and what a
memorable thing that will be forthe kids that you know.
(12:20):
Oh yeah, on our family vacationwhen I was in fourth grade, we
went to, we went to Wisconsinand saw the place where there's
the only approved Marianapparition in the whole United
States.
Like you can do something bigand memorable as well.
So make it small, make it big,but I think it's important to
know that it's totally somethinga family can do.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
Yeah, just thinking about what that tells a child if
you do incorporate it into yourregular family vacation, how
children learn so much more fromthe things that aren't spoken
sometimes.
And if you incorporatesomething like that into your
family vacation, you're teachingyour child that this is
important.
You're teaching your child thatthe Catholic culture is
everywhere, that Catholics arein Wisconsin just as much as
(12:59):
they are in our own hometown.
And just what you teach yourchildren through making, yes,
sunday Mass a priority, but thenalso teaching them about the
church in America.
In this way, you don't have tosit down with a lesson plan for
them, but you're teachingthrough your normal everyday
family life.
I love that.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Yeah, and also just to take advantage of when you do
visit those new churches,whether you're on vacation and,
like you said, you prioritizeSunday mass, or one time I have
it's not a bad habit, but a badhabit of like, if I'm traveling,
I love road tripping.
I'm from the Midwest, we driveeverywhere and if I see a
steeple I'm like and I have time, I'm going to stop and I'm
going to see if that church isunlocked.
(13:38):
And one time a friend and I wewere younger back then and we
were driving from Colorado backto Illinois and we stopped at
every steeple we saw on I-70.
And let's just say we didn'tactually end up sleeping that
night because it took it addedquite a bit of time, but it was
beautiful because almost everychurch was unlocked and so we
were able to go in and pray ateach place.
(13:59):
So it also could just be thatlike driving past a beautiful
church and taking theopportunity, like hey, we're
going to, we're going to get outof the van for a minute, like
let's just go see, and thendoing the good old Catholic
trick of checking the side doorsright To see if those are the
onesernacle you know, say aquick prayer and then take, I
mean even five minutes to lookabout, look around the beautiful
(14:20):
architecture and statues andstained glass windows.
So sometimes too, the pilgrimageitself might just be time
within the church.
Maybe it's at your own parishyou stay after for five or 10
minutes and let your kidsactually get up you know now
that mass is over and go walk upclose to the sanctuary.
Or or go actually walk aroundand get really close to the
(14:42):
statues and let them look andand and ask questions.
And so I think, using some ofthe beauty that we have present
in our, in our churches, andallowing them to catechize
because that's what they're for,right, like that's why our
churches are designed the waythey are.
That can also be a way of doingpilgrimage as a family.
That is very attainable, butalso very memorable, very, very
(15:05):
memorable.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
We talk on this podcast and we talk at Verso
about the difference between avacation and a pilgrimage and I
wondered if you could talk alittle bit about field trip
versus pilgrimage, because Iknow you've taken pilgrimages as
a school teacher and what doesthat look like and how is that
different than just taking afield trip somewhere?
Speaker 2 (15:28):
Yeah, so I happen to.
I teach in Peoria and I'vetaught in the Peoria Diocese my
whole career and so we havetaken like I think I would have
to go back and have to somewherearound the past 10 or 12 years
I've taken my students onpilgrimage to our local
cathedral, which every Catholicteacher, catechist or honestly
anyone I highly recommend youtake a pilgrimage to your
(15:49):
cathedral because it's your homechurch of your diocese, like
your children should visit there, whether it's really nearby or
maybe you have to drive a littleways to get there.
Like that would be a worthwhiletrip to take.
So we did that and it was allconnected.
So about 12 years ago I startedteaching my students about
Venerable Fulton Sheen, who I'msure most people are at least
familiar with by name.
(16:09):
So he is local to our diocese,grew up here and was ordained a
priest in our diocese before hewent on to his you know,
national TV fame and so Istarted teaching them about his
life and as we were studying I'mlike, well, we, we should like
go, we should go hop around allthe sites locally.
This is, you know, this is kindof a once in a lifetime thing
to have a maybe future saintright in our backyard.
(16:31):
And so the very first year Iwas younger and crazierzier and
we just like, we just made aplan and we drove.
So we drove to El Paso,illinois, which is where his
baptismal church of register,and we went there and the priest
was so excited to have us so wehad like a holy half hour and
(16:51):
got to go in and visit where youknow, see the font where he was
baptized.
And then we drove into Peoriaand got to see the museum where
they have many, many artifactsfrom his life, and learn more
about him there, and then wentto the cathedral and prayed
where he was an altar server andwas ordained a priest.
And then now, years later, hisbody has now been moved back and
is in tomb there, so we canactually pray at his tomb.
And it was really cool toprepare my students for that
(17:13):
trip, because those were fifthgraders, they were, you know, 11
.
And to talk about how I mean westill had fun.
Trust me, we had a lot of fun.
I actually set it up like ascavenger hunt and so everywhere
, every stop we went to, theygot a clue and they had to
figure out where we were goingnext.
And they were, oh my gosh, assoon as they like unscrambled
the clue or solved it orwhatever they like would run for
(17:34):
the bus like ready to go to thenext place.
So it didn't have to be.
It wasn't like somber andserious the whole time.
It was still fun and joyful andkid centered.
But it was all completely basedaround his life and they I when
they, some of those kids are nowin college and so, like when I,
like you know, saw them attheir graduation parties in high
school, or when they like wroteme notes afterwards, they're
(17:56):
like that Fulton Sheenpilgrimage or that Fulton Fulton
Sheen field trip was the bestfield trip we ever went on,
because it was, it was different, it was unique and they knew
that there was somethingimportant about it.
So we, you know, we also got insome prayer time in both of the
churches.
They got a, you know, a areally like up close and
personal tour of the cathedraland got to pray there.
(18:18):
So yeah, so that's kind of thesummary.
So I've done a lot of thingslike that with my students and a
couple of things I try to do tosort of set the tone is remind
them like we're still going tohave fun and we're still going
to do all of these other things.
But we do need to enter intothis, like we're not going to
Six Flags, we are going to thesebeautiful holy places, and so
we often try to come up with anintention ahead of time, so
(18:40):
something that they want to prayfor either throughout the whole
day, ideally, or at least anintention to take when we get to
that final place, when we getto the cathedral and they have
some time to pray.
We often would also try to workin some type of prayer and that
looks different based on yourschedule.
So for some that might thatmight be like mass in one of the
locations.
We, like I said, we often wouldget to do like a little holy
(19:01):
half hour or holy 20 minutes insome of the churches.
Sometimes we would arrive andthen we would pray a rosary
together.
So it kind of depended on theschedule, of course, but we
always try to work, incorporateprayer into it and then also
just this and this is somethingthat takes time in like whether
it's family culture or classroomculture but sort of fostering
that like air of reverence inthese places that you're going
(19:23):
to, that we're not, we're notjust touring a historic building
like we're going into the houseof God, and so we would always
preface with some of the justgeneral reverence and respect
guidelines that kids sometimesneed reminded of, but, honestly,
it didn't usually take muchcoaching.
Usually, once we were there,they understood that this place
is different.
This isn't just a buildingwe're going to walk in, it's not
(19:44):
a museum, it's like the living,breathing house of God and so,
yeah, so those are some of thebig things that I think can take
something from feeling like atour to actually feeling like a
pilgrimage.
Is that intentionality ofprayer, encouraging them to have
something specific that they'repraying for the whole day, like
whether it's you know, mygrandma is sick, or I'm worried
about changing schools next year, or you know things like that
(20:07):
to have something specific topray for, and then also trying
to help cultivate that, thatculture of reverence, which I
think is really important andkids are completely capable of.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
So often we yeah, we don't give kids enough credit
and I think, on all of this, we,we think you know they're
they're not capable ofunderstanding this, that they're
not capable of of of, you know,behaving correctly, or they're
not capable of understandingthis, that they're not capable
of behaving correctly, orthey're not capable of wrapping
their minds around this concept.
And I had a Nashville Dominicanfriend who used to say if kids
can memorize every dinosaur'sname, they can memorize the
(20:41):
things that we use at mass,right, the names of the items at
mass.
And we just don't give kidsenough credit sometimes and we
forget that actually theyhaven't been as tainted by the
world as we have.
They probably maybe have betterattention spans than we do now,
right, possibly.
And so just allowing yourselfto give your kids a chance to
enter into this and see how theydo.
Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah, I mean also, like the church is for everyone.
There isn't like a you don'thave to pass a, you know like a
test or an age limit or whateverit might be, and I think just
the um, the ID to, and you, youreally hit on that well, joan,
and that like we're kind ofwe're walking alongside, whether
it's your children or yourstudents, or walking alongside
them in this journey of faith,this pilgrimage to heaven.
(21:24):
We're not, like you know,bringing them along, or we're
not like you know bringing themalong or we're not coaching them
.
I don't know, I'm not wordingthat quite right, just to just a
reminder that like they havedeeply unique spiritual lives
and prayer lives and and theyare so close to the Lord and
sometimes it just doesn't lookthe same as it does in an
adult's life, and so we oftenthink like, oh well, they're not
, you know they can't do X, y orZ, but really they maybe should
(21:47):
be the ones who are teaching ussometimes.
And so never, ever, ever beafraid to, you know, to take
your young ones on a trip likethat, or to bring them to Mass
at a cathedral or and you knowwe need to be have age
appropriate expectations, youknow, like whatever that may be,
like a, but we also don't needto water down the faith, like we
need to bring it to them in away that is digestible and
(22:10):
understandable for them andappropriate for their age and
abilities.
But we also don't need toweaken it or make it something
it's not because they'reperfectly capable of
participating in the fullness ofthe.
You know the life of the church.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah, yeah, they're just.
They're on this pilgrimage withus, they're not just along for
the ride.
I like when John Paul II usedto say the youth aren't the
future of the church, becausethey are the church now and this
idea that they can have deepspiritual lives I mean, jesus
told us to be like children fora reason, and just on this
pilgrimage journey, actuallymaybe we're learning from them
(22:45):
sometimes.
To tell you the truth, katie,what you said about pilgrimage
is what we tell our adults it'snot just going to be somber,
we're going to have fun andbring an intention.
And so we tell the same thingsat Verso, when we go to Fatima,
right, we tell our adults, don'tworry, we're going to have fun
and bring an intention, but bereverent.
(23:06):
So it's not that different,just as we kind of finish up.
I kind of want to return andyou've spoken about this, but I
also want to return to this ideathat pilgrimage is for everyone
, because I think a lot of times, especially working for a
pilgrimage company where maybe alot of our pilgrims are older
and retired and now they havethe chance to travel
(23:27):
internationally I thinksometimes pilgrimage can get
chalked up to something retiredpeople do and something crazy
adventurous people do that aregoing to go walk the Camino.
But we see that pilgrimage isfor everyone, and we've seen
that pilgrimages are forfamilies, and so can you talk a
little bit about what, and maybein developing your resources
for the Eucharistic pilgrimageas well?
(23:48):
How do we bring children topilgrimage and why is pilgrimage
so important?
To teach even young children.
Speaker 2 (23:55):
Well, I think that kind of like to summarize some
of the things we've already saidin our conversation and that,
like this, is just kind of a wayof life for us as Catholics,
and it doesn't have to be bigand it doesn't have to be time
consuming, it doesn't have to beinternational, it doesn't have
to be big and it doesn't have tobe time consuming, it doesn't
have to be international.
Some of it is just theintentionality and explaining to
kids ahead of time, like whyyou know why you're going to go
(24:16):
to a mass in a differentlocation this week, instead of
just loading them up and, youknow, strapping them into the
van and going be.
Like hey, actually you know, weheard that there's going to be
this cool relic that's visitingthis neighboring parish and so
we're going to go to that massso we can go and pray with the
relic of this saint and then onyour on the way, maybe you turn
on a podcast and learn a littlebit about that saint.
So the kids are ready to go, um, and you go and you pray there.
So sometimes I think that it isum like inviting them along for
(24:39):
the journey in that way, ifthat makes sense.
Um, I also think that it's goodto remember that you can do
this in like small ways.
So let's let's just say, forinstance, that the, the national
Eucharistic pilgrimage is goingto be somewhere near you and
you decide as a family thatyou're going to.
You know you are, you're notgoing to be able to go and walk
for the days and weeks that theactual, you know the pilgrims
are going to take as they begintheir routes and and and in
(25:02):
Indianapolis.
But maybe you go and you youwalk for 15 minutes with them,
or you find out one of theparishes that they'll be, you
know that they'll be going to,and you and you join, you know,
towards the end of thatprocession.
Speaking of that, I think thatEucharistic processions I hope
anyway it seems to me have beenon the rise since the beginning
of the National EucharisticRevival.
(25:22):
And so Eucharistic procession,you know, if you're not familiar
with those, a priest will takethe Blessed Sacrament in a
monstrance and will be walked.
It might be just around theproperty of a parish, it might
be through a whole neighborhood,it might be from town to town,
and so that's all connected withthis whole Eucharistic
pilgrimage.
But maybe keep an eye out,especially with Corpus Christi
(25:44):
Sunday coming up or over thesummer, it seems to be a little
more of a popular time forEucharistic processions, to join
a procession and do that withyour kids, like, oh, like it's.
I mean it's like it's a paradefor Jesus.
There's incense and there'sbells and they're singing and
there's people.
I mean like there is nothingmore kid friendly in the world.
It's like perfect for them.
So finding things that you feelyou know ready to do as a family
(26:08):
, like pop pop.
So finding things that you feelyou know ready to do as a any
shrines or maybe there's even,even if it's not a particularly,
(26:30):
you know remarkable orwell-known church, maybe there's
a church along the way that hasis named after a saint that is
important to your family.
You know a name saint of one ofyour children, or you know just
one of their favorites, or thesaint that one of your children
is choosing as theirconfirmation saint, for example,
and make an intentional trip togo and stop at that church and
(26:51):
pray and ask for theintercession of those saints.
There's so many little ways.
We have like infinitepossibilities to work that
pilgrimage into our lives asfamilies and I really think that
it can make all the differencefor kids when they start to see
that Catholicism is like livingand breathing, and all around
them, not just something thatthey do for an hour on Sunday
(27:11):
morning.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Yes, and I think that's the key right, that it's
a way of life and it shouldtouch all aspects of our lives,
and that I know that you hadresources as well on May
processions and May crownings,and like I thought of that when
you were talking about theEucharistic procession, some of
my fondest memories growing upare of our May procession and
what girl got to crown theBlessed Mother, and just that
(27:35):
experience, that tangibleexperience.
Like you said, there's nothingbetter for kids than, okay,
we're going to walk, we're goingto get out of the pew and walk
right, you get to sing, you getto throw flowers, you know, like
all the senses that are engaged.
And so I think that's why itappeals to us as adults, because
it's kind of that inner childwho doesn't want to parade for
(27:56):
Jesus right, or parade for hismother.
So I love this kind ofreclaiming this Catholic culture
for our kids.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Yeah, absolutely, and that made me think of one other
thing with that.
If you are listening to this andyou're someone maybe on the
parish end of things, maybe makean intentional invite, even
though you know you maybe haveyou know you do a Eucharistic
procession every summer or maybeyou, you know you always do a
May crowning this time of year.
Maybe make an like, anintentional push or an
intentional invite to yourfamilies.
(28:26):
Make it well known that thoseevents are family friendly and
you want babies in strollersbeing pushed in the Eucharistic
procession, just to make surethat sometimes it can be hard
for families with young kids tofeel welcome, whether that is a
perception they have ofsomething that's happened in the
past in the parish.
Or maybe they just say like, oh, there's no way we could handle
that.
It's an hour long, are youkidding me?
(28:47):
But if they find out, like,actually, really, this is what's
going to happen.
You know we're going to walkand we're going to sing and you
can come for this much and go.
If you need to Make it wellknown and if you can make those
things as family friendly aspossible, get kids involved,
make it possible for your often,you know make different
accommodations for the elderlyin our parishes to be able to
(29:10):
still participate in things.
Let's also do the same thingwith our families with young
kids too.
Speaker 1 (29:16):
I love that.
I love that, and if you are inthe parish side, you know,
provide these resources, freeresources.
Maybe have a link in your, youre, -newsletter, or like print
out some for your bulletin sothat families can prepare their
kids ahead of time and that wecan really enter into this as
the whole body of Christ.
I love, I love that.
Yep, you got it, I'm here forit.
(29:37):
Well, thank you, Katie.
We will put all a bunch oflinks in the show notes so you
can find Katie, you can find herwork, you can benefit from her
work.
Do you have any closingthoughts or any last things you
want to say as we wrap up?
Oh gosh, we talked about.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
We hit a lot on a lot of things.
I think, just yeah, just toreiterate, to like bring your
kids along on the journey ofyour faith, like it's not
something that you need to waitfor, like they will.
They will catch the fire ofCatholicism by living it
together as a family.
So bring them along withanything that is new and
exciting, like they're going tolove it.
So just don't be afraid to trynew things with them.
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Yeah, I love it.
It doesn't have to be perfect,it doesn't have to be
Instagrammable.
Just do it and do your best andthey'll love it.
They'll love it.
Well, thank you, katie.
Thanks for joining us.
Thank you, listeners.
Share this episode with someoneyou or maybe you have, you know
, a grandmother who watches hergrandkids.
Share this with someone whoneeds this, who would benefit
(30:34):
from this, so that they know howto kind of begin to bring that
Catholic culture back into ourfamilies, into our schools and
into our parishes.
God bless.
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