August 13, 2024 • 41 mins
While many people have walked the Camino as pilgrims, what is it like on the other side – serving pilgrims? In this episode, we welcome Greg Shurman, a retired middle school history teacher and devoted father, who shares about both his experiences walking and helping pilgrims on this ancient pilgrimage. Greg takes us through his journey along the Camino Frances and the Camino del Baztan, reflecting on the spiritual enrichment and profound connections he encountered along the way. His stories of volunteering in hospitality (while fulfilling a childhood dream!) shed light on the joy of service and the Camino's unique ability to bring people together.
Discover how the Camino fosters simplicity, mutual reliance, and spiritual reflection. Greg shares heartfelt anecdotes of comforting fellow pilgrims and the unexpected kindness that marked his journey. Join us as we not only explore the spiritual growth that comes with pilgrimage but also the power of being a good listener and the transformative impact of simple, compassionate actions.
This episode is a call to embrace the Camino's life-changing potential, and Greg's experiences might just be the motivation you need to take that first step on your own Camino! Tune in and let Greg's journey inspire your own!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to In Via, the podcast where we're
navigating the pilgrimage oflife.
We are all in via on the wayand we are learning a lot as we
go.
I'm your host, joan Watson.
Join me as we listen to stories, discover travel tips and learn
more about our Catholic faith.
Along the way, we'll see thatif God seeks to meet us in
(00:21):
Jerusalem, rome or Santiago, healso wants to encounter you
right there in your car, on yourrun or in the middle of your
workday.
In today's episode, I am joinedby Greg Sherman, who recently
walked the Camino and shareswith us about his time of
volunteering on the Camino.
(00:41):
We talk all about this veryfamous pilgrimage, but
especially look at what is itlike to evangelize through the
Camino.
It's great to have you on thepodcast at last.
Greg and I have been talkingabout the Camino off and on at
conferences and through email,and I'm really glad that now
we're actually talking about iton the podcast.
(01:02):
I'm very excited about thisepisode.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Same here, same here.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So we always start by asking our guests a little bit.
I speak in the royal we,apparently.
I always start the episodesasking our guests to talk a
little bit about themselves.
And that can be difficultbecause there's probably so much
to say and I know we'll get toknow you through this episode.
But I always give people thehard task of saying if you could
(01:27):
tell people three things aboutyourself, three sentences, what
would you say?
And I'm pretty liberal andgenerous with that three.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Thank you.
Well, first and foremost, Iwould say that I am a very proud
father of a daughter who livesin Denver.
She works for a Catholicnonprofit and she just turned 30
years old this year and I guessshe's the joy of my life and
I'm just so proud of her andwhat she's accomplished and also
(01:56):
how she's helped me spirituallyin my life.
She's been kind of like a rockfor me as well.
Second of all, I guess I wouldsay that I'm a retired middle
school teacher.
I taught history for close to 20years and now, being retired, I
have some opportunities to dosome things that I really enjoy,
(02:17):
and that's giving back to thecommunity, doing some community
service activities, like workingwith some nonprofits.
I also volunteer as a mentorlocally in my community and get
to travel a little bit more thanI was able to do when I was a
teacher.
Yeah, and then I guess, aboutmy faith, you know I'm a cradle
(02:42):
Catholic, grew up Catholic andI've always been a practicing
Catholic and now I teachconfirmation classes.
I've been teaching confirmationfor about 20 years and it's one
of those sacraments that bringsa lot of joy to me because of
the Holy Spirit.
And when I travel, when I pray,I always feel like the Holy
(03:05):
Spirit is with me.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, lovely, those kids are lucky because to have a
former teacher, you know whatyou're doing teaching, but then,
to be open to the Holy Spirit,you allow him to lead, I'm sure.
So those confirmation studentsand your pastor are both very
lucky to have you in that role.
We're going to be talking todayabout the Camino and we've
(03:29):
talked on this show before aboutthe Camino.
We've talked about the historyof the Camino, we've talked to
people who've walked the Camino.
I do find that of all pilgrims,camino pilgrims are the most
excited to talk about theirexperience and to say interview
me about the experience.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Exactly.
That's why I'm smiling.
I know we're recording audio,but if your listeners can see me
, I'm smiling Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
And I'd love to talk more about that, because I do
think the Camino is sotransformative you can't help
but share after you get home.
But just to start off, how manytimes have you been to Spain?
Have you walked part or all ofthe Camino, or have you made a
Camino?
I guess I should say.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Absolutely yeah.
So I've been to Spain twice.
My first Camino was last year,in 2023.
And I was able to walk theCamino Frances, which was the
entire northern part of Spain,from St Jean in France to
Santiago.
So that was last April and Mayand that took me about 38 days
(04:36):
to accomplish that.
And then this past spring, acouple months ago, I also went
back to Spain and I walked asmall Camino, camino Bastan,
which runs from Bayonne, france,to Pamplona, spain.
But I also volunteered at analbergue for two weeks in St
(04:58):
Jean, which was really thehighlight of my previous trip,
my most recent trip Ever.
Since I left Spain back lastspring, I've wanted to go back,
no doubt Every day.
I kept thinking when am I goingto go back, when am I going to
go back?
And then I heard that there's away that you can volunteer.
So you know, through the goodLord, he put me in touch with a
(05:22):
person that had a connectionwith an albergue in St John and
I communicated with the ownerand we talked about dates and
next thing, I know I'm headingback to France and Spain and
helping out.
You know, as a kid growing upand going on family vacations,
(05:43):
which we did maybe one familyvacation every year.
I always loved staying athotels and like places like that
.
So as a kid growing up I waslike, ah, this would be great, I
would love to like work in aplace like this one day.
And I never really fulfilledthat, that goal or that dream.
But uh, but I would honestlysay like last month I was able,
(06:04):
or back in May of this year Iwas able to do that.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, and you weren't just working at any hotel, but
working in that ministrycapacity, I think, at a place
where people weren't just onholiday but were seeking, I
think would definitely make iteven better.
And I want to talk about thatvolunteer time especially.
But I want to go back and kindof go back to Greg pre first
(06:29):
Camino and ask you what drew youto make a Camino?
Why?
Why was that attractive?
Or did you really know what youwere getting yourself into?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
even yeah, great question.
So I didn't really knowanything about the Camino.
I received a postcard from mycousin who was traveling with
her husband in Portugal andSpain.
And this postcard comes in themail and it's a.
It's a postcard of all theroutes going to Santiago and she
(06:59):
challenged me.
She said you know, what routeare you going to do?
And I was like I have no idea,I don't understand.
You know, I have no idea whatthis is all about.
So I started Googling, Istarted talking to some people,
I went to the library, I foundbooks and I was hooked.
As soon as I saw my first video,just a YouTube video, I was
(07:19):
like, no, this is, this is forme.
So I called a good friend ofmine in Ohio and I asked her.
I said you know, you got tocheck this out.
And then the two of us kind oflike, talked and and she was
very interested as well.
So she said, no, this is yes,let's do it.
You know, what time of yearshould we do this?
(07:40):
What route should we take?
So there's a lot of, a lot ofunanswered questions at the time
, but but then just just doingthe research.
But I, but I was, I was hookedas soon as I read about what it
was and how long this has beengoing on, and I just I decided
this is something I want to do.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, do you know what caused her to challenge you
in that way?
I mean, she had never I'massuming she had never walked
one.
Do you know what made her likereach out to you and like pose
that question, and did she knowwhat she was going to create?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, I don't think either one of us, neither one of
us uh knew this.
Uh, I had met Sally from Ohioin Peru the previous year.
My niece and I had gone to Peruto uh to, to travel to Machu
Picchu, and um, sally was one ofthe first Americans we met and
(08:31):
she was a solo traveler byherself, uh, no fear, and she
just inspired me.
So over the you know, over thatyear between Peru and then when
we walked the Camino, I kept intouch with her and she was the
first one I thought aboutreaching out.
Uh, and if there's anybody inthe world that would say, let's
do this thing, let's, let's go,it would be, it would be my
(08:54):
friend Sally.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I love it and uh yeah , Um, what surprised you and
this is probably a huge questionwith lots of different answers-
but um what surprised you andthis is probably a huge question
with lots of different answersbut, um, what surprised you
about the camino?
Because you had done all thisresearch, you had watched videos
, you had read books, you, youknow you went in knowing a lot
about it, but I know that youdon't know anything until you're
(09:18):
on it, right.
Um, what surprised you aboutthe, your experience on that
first Camino?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
One of the things that jumps out is just the
people from all over the world,from different cultures.
Yeah, I had no idea that somedays I would be walking with
(09:47):
people from Australia and HongKong and Taiwan and Ireland and
Italy.
That was number one.
I knew I would meet pilgrimsbecause I knew it was very
popular, but I just had no ideathat and I would get to know
some people by talking with them.
Secondly, I think the othersurprise was the amount of
churches along the way that wereclosed or locked or or like
(10:07):
they.
They were turned into museumsbasically, um, and there weren't
services.
But that was mostly in, like,the smaller towns, cause on the
Camino you're going to, you knowyou're going to walk for you
know 775 kilometers and you'regoing to go through some of
these small towns, um, some ofthem were pretty much vacant.
Like that was.
(10:28):
That was a surprise as well.
So you walk into these smalltowns and you don't really see
anybody.
And then you come across thesechurches and you're like, wow, I
really want to get in thischurch and I really want to look
at.
You know, inside it's like thisis you're talking about a ninth
or 10th, 11th century churchand we couldn't.
We couldn't get into.
A lot of times I couldn't getinto the churches.
(10:50):
So, but someone had someone hadtold me that you know kind of
heads up on that, but beingthere and like wanting to go in
these churches and not beingable to get into them was kind
of kind of a downer in a way.
If there was any downer on thetrip, yeah, so I guess that was
(11:13):
it.
And I think just realizing whatlittle you need to take with
you, you know when you'repacking, you know you get into
the routine every day, so it'syou think about your backpack
every day, about you know, do Ireally need all this stuff?
What can I leave behind?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
So yeah, did you find yourself shedding things that
you thought you needed, that youdidn't?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
I did yes, I did Absolutely yes.
Um, you know, my backpack waswas within the range they said
about 10% of your body weight.
So I was carrying probablyaround 16 pounds total with
everything.
And I realized that there weresome things that I brought.
Like, I brought a lightweighthoodie that was not the best
(11:59):
quality as far as material todry and wash, and so along the
way, maybe like a third of theway, I just decided you know
what I'm going to, I'm going towash it, I'm going to dry it,
I'm going to give it to some,you know, to the, to the
Albergue, the hostel, and somepilgrim will want it.
Um, I also brought like anextra pair of long pants and I
found myself you know what, I'mwearing a pair today and I have
(12:21):
an extra pair.
I don't really need a thirdpair.
So that was kind of verytherapeutic for me as well, very
therapeutic.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I love the spiritual lessons that people come away
from the Camino with that areusually attached to attachment
and detachment that I thoughtthat I needed all this in life
and I have this baggage, and howcan the Lord free me from that?
And finding freedom in less andshedding those things, whether
(12:54):
it's a bad habit or an extrapair of pants what does the Lord
want us to shed today on ourCamino through life?
I think that's just a reallypowerful reflection.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Absolutely, absolutely, cause you know you
have a lot of time forreflection, as you're walking
every day, I guess, averagingabout 13 to 15 miles per day,
and you do have so much time tokind of listen to God, um, to
kind of reevaluate your life and, to be honest with you, I, I
was able to like go back over myentire life from like growing
(13:28):
up in New York and my time in inmiddle school, my time in high
school, my time in college um,just thinking about all the
people that you know that I'veencountered that have helped me
along my way, all the strugglesthat you face, and you're right,
going back to the backpack,it's an exercise in you know
(13:48):
what do we need and then, likeyou know, when we get back home,
all the things that weaccumulate.
You know, being such amaterialistic society, it really
has helped me reevaluate mylife and become more simplistic.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, and that reliance on others even.
I mean, somebody maybe reallyneeded that hoodie and you were
able to pay it forward but wealso rely on others, you know,
like maybe you don't need tocover every possibility in your
backpack, because maybe someonewill have something that you
need and that yeah, I just feellike there's a lot of spiritual
(14:25):
lessons on the camino, more soeven than any other trip, right?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I hear these coming out of you know, they always the
buzzword, the buzz sentences.
The camino will provide so uh,you know like you know, when I
first heard this, what does thatmean?
Does that mean like, do I nottake any money with me?
And it's just like going to beprovided.
And you know, there were somepilgrims that walk with you know
bare minimum, and they go intothe Camino with the attitude of
(14:54):
that it will provide for likeeverything.
They'll find housing, they'llfind somebody that will give
them food, but yeah, and theCamino does provide.
It's just a strangestphenomenon, you know phenomenon
yeah, because the Lord providesright.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
It's very biblical, absolutely and, of course,
walking.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
you know, walking those days and doing reflection.
You can't help but think aboutthe thousands and thousands of
pilgrims over the years thathave walked this route, and the
stories, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
You know, I think sometimes you know, even
thinking about the Camino willprovide, when it's the Lord
providing.
Sometimes there's kind of likethis mystique around the Camino
that attracts people who aren'teven Christian, don't have no
belief in the idea of St Jamesand a pilgrimage to his tomb,
which, of course, the Camino is.
Did you encounter a lot ofpeople from other faiths, from
(15:56):
other backgrounds, who aren'tChristian, who weren't making
this for Christian purposes, andwhy do you think those people
are drawn to the Camino as well?
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yes.
So I run into a variety ofpeople, no doubt Christians and
non-Christians.
The one sentence I kept hearingover and over again from some
people that I walked alongside,or people that when I walked
into churches, the ones thatwere open in the cathedrals,
(16:25):
they were in awe of the beautyof these churches, but then they
would.
They would kind of lean over tome and say, you know, I'm not
really religious and I I think Imissed Joan, I think I missed
the opportunity on the firstCamino.
I heard that so often and I wasthinking is God reaching out to
(16:45):
me, like hitting me with thenewspaper and saying, hey, wake
up.
This is an opportunity.
And at times I did.
I shared my faith when I feltcomfortable, but there were so
many opportunities that I couldhave really told them the good
news and shared the good news.
So people do you know, obviouslythey go for religious reasons,
(17:07):
they want to get closer to God,and I saw a lot of that.
I saw a lot of tears.
I saw a lot of people in joyduring the pilgrim's masses,
enjoy.
During the pilgrims masses,each kind of each night there's
a, there's always a pilgrimsmass that they offer to bless
the pilgrims and it's prettywell attended.
(17:29):
And looking around and I youknow you don't have to be
christian, you don't have tohave beliefs.
It's just one of those thingsand I always encourage people to
to attend that pilgrims massand everybody walks out with a
smile and they just feel likeyou know they receive the
special blessing that helps them.
(17:49):
Whatever this, whatever they'restruggling with others, do the
camino for you know, maybe itcould be a change in their
career, maybe they're dealingwith an addiction, maybe they're
trying to overcome somethingthat you know, just get a
different outlook on their life.
All different ages.
I walked with college kids andI walked with one small family
(18:16):
and I walked with a lot of olderpeople as well.
I walked with single people,married people, so yeah.
And you know, and you try not topry with kind of you kind of
respect people's privacies, butwhen you're you know, it's just
it's.
It's those moments that peoplefeel comfortable with you and
(18:39):
they open up to you.
Sure, and when I got back fromthe Camino, I kind of realized
that you know, hey, maybe thatwas what I was supposed to
accomplish, maybe I was justsupposed to be a good listener,
maybe people feel comfortableenough with me that they opened
up to me and, uh, they, theyneeded that in their, on their,
(19:04):
in their lives right now.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, when you look at the Camino as I mean you said
on your first Camino you wonderlike should I have said more?
Should I have shared my faithmore?
Did that change on either your,your second Camino or when you
were volunteering?
Did you approach it differentlybecause you knew that these
things were going to come up?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yes absolutely.
Yeah, what I, what I, um, when Icame back from the Camino, uh,
what are the things that?
Uh, one of the goals or my, mythoughts on the first Camino was
you know God, where do you wantme to go in life?
You know, I retired as a middleschool teacher.
I had.
I have time.
You've given me the time.
(19:47):
You've obviously given me sometalents.
What's my next step in life?
And you know, I'm still workingon that, but my volunteering
has helped me establish that.
Just being kind to people andjust showing through actions.
(20:10):
I think that's helped me a lot.
I can show my spirituality andmy Christianity through doing
things for doing things forother people and, you know, and
and and blessing people alongthe way.
Just, you know, just tellingthem, you know I'll pray for you
.
If somebody was going throughsomething would always, would
(20:32):
always go about asking people toyou know if it's okay for them,
for me to pray for them, andthen, on this Camino, for me to
pray for them.
And then, on this Camino working, I had an opportunity to meet
15 to 16 pilgrims a day, newpilgrims that were starting
their Camino.
So I felt like, okay, god, I'mgoing to listen to your
(20:53):
challenge, I'm going to do mybest, and I had some
opportunities to do that.
One particular story I canthink about is there was a
gentleman from the United Stateswho, after talking to him, he
lost his father a couple ofmonths ago and he was doing this
Camino, and I just simply saidto him your dad's with you on
(21:20):
this Camino, he's with you everystep of the way.
Don't ever forget that.
And you know, he gave me a hugand then, like he like, he
teared up and he said Thank you.
That means a lot to me.
The other thing is to remindthe pilgrims we did it.
There was a mass in St John.
(21:41):
Every night it's at seveno'clock and it was a mass, a
short Catholic mass, and theythey do it in Basque, so it's in
the Basque language and that's.
That was really nice.
But I always encourage pilgrimsto, before dinner is to to
attend this mass and to get ablessing, and so I felt like
(22:03):
that was another way I couldoutreach to people, even though
you may not attend mass.
Maybe you don't know what'sgoing on, but it's just one
other aspect of that.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So so yeah, so yes I did.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I did kind of wake up a little bit and say, okay, all
right, here's, I could's, Icould do, this, I could do this.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, I do feel like there are so many opportunities
that are probably, you know,there's so many opportunities
because the Camino is such avulnerable time where people are
looking for answers and sooften when we try to share the
gospel, sometimes we try toshare it with people who aren't
looking for answers, you know.
And so I had a friend who didthe Camino, who had the same
(22:41):
comment that you did about thechurches being closed and how
difficult that was to see andhow surprising it was, because
she said I'm on this spiritualjourney, I want to go into these
churches and and to visit Jesusand and see Christ in, you know
, in the Eucharist and um, andwhat a great Testament that
would be for those people whomaybe are looking and are
(23:04):
looking for answers.
And so we laughed and said weshould start a nonprofit that
goes and works at all thesechurches and preaches the gospel
and just shares the good newsat all these little churches.
So, greg, if we ever do that,I'm going to recruit you to go
with us, absolutely.
Wouldn't that be.
It would just be phenomenalbecause there are so many people
(23:25):
searching?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, and there was one town and I ran into there
was a volunteer at one of thechurches and that was like his
role, like he had, he haddecided he was going to relocate
to Spain and you know oldergentlemen, and uh, that's what
he does every day.
He spends several hours in thechurch and he greets people and
(23:47):
he tells them all about thechurch and the history.
And uh, I was like, oh yes,this is something I'd love to do
.
I can pull that off, but yeah,that was, that was a special
moment as well.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, Such a beautiful way to evangelize at a
moment in people's lives, Ithink.
So let's talk about yourvolunteering, because I think
that's a really unique chance.
I've had a lot of people walkthe Camino, but I've never met
someone who volunteered in thatway.
And you told us a little bitwhat drew you to it, but, um,
(24:20):
and you've told us some of yourexperiences evangelizing.
Um, but what did you, what didyou find in that, in that
experience?
And?
Um, you know, would you do itagain?
Would you encourage others?
What, what?
Just tell us a little bit aboutthat, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, so it's such a great, wonderful experience.
Um, you know, I, I there's thethe American, the American
Pilgrims on Camino is anorganization here in the States.
They have different chaptersaround the country and every
year they have like three orfour different places where you
can go to do training and it'slike a two or three day training
, which is great.
(24:54):
And I kind of looked at mycalendar and I could.
It didn't work out for me thispast year to make any of those
trainings.
But I found a friend of minefrom Jacksonville I live in
North Florida.
She called me and we weretalking and she told me about
this one place in St John andshe said, hey, if you're going
(25:15):
back to do a Camino and youreally want to volunteer, let me
put you in touch with the owner.
So we did and, uh, and itworked out that, uh, he likes to
have his volunteers go for twoweeks at a time.
So I was there for about 14 or15 days and you know I was the
friend of mine, told me a littlebit about it but didn't give me
(25:36):
all the details.
So I didn't really know what Iwas getting involved in.
But uh but, like I said, one ofmy dreams was to be an owner of
a hotel and operate a hotel.
So this was great for me toexperience this.
So I just kind of jumped in andpart of my daily routines was
to check in the pilgrims, togreet them, to get them settled
(26:00):
into a bed or a room that theyhad.
We did reservations, so wealways checked the reservation
book.
Basically it was just welcomingthem and kind of putting that
ease.
They're getting ready to starttheir Camino.
Obviously, having walked thecamino, I was able to help them
(26:22):
with any questions that theymight have had, without telling
them too much, because you neverwant to spoil somebody's camino
and the camino is different foreverybody, as you, as you
probably know from previous uhinterviews that you had.
And then I would help in thekitchen prepare the meal.
We offered a simple vegetarianmeal every night.
(26:43):
So that got me out of mycomfort zone a little bit.
I like to cook, but I'm notlike a great cook and I can be a
good helper.
So I was like, okay, tell mewhat I need to do.
You're the sous chef do you'rethe sous chef?
Yeah, between you and I, Inever want to peel any more
(27:03):
carrots or potatoes.
I never want to chop upvegetables.
Uh, for a while I, I, you knowI did that.
Yeah, so, and then we set up,you know, set up the table, and
we always did an introductionevery night to to find out where
the pilgrims were from, andthen kind of ask them also, you
know what, what brought them tothe community?
What do they, you know, hope togain from the community?
(27:26):
And our host it was one he'sbeen doing this for about 10
years and he was a great personto work under taught me a lot
about just welcoming people andputting people at ease and
inspiring them.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, that biblical virtue of hospitality I think is
often lost in our world.
I think sometimes we think ofvirtues as being these big hard
things like temperance andprudence and we forget the very
human virtues like hospitalityand just making people feel at
home.
Right In Scripture it says likebe hospitable because you may
be entertaining angels.
(28:05):
And just that idea that each ofus have dignity and each of us
have a story, and especially assomeone's beginning their Camino
, that beautiful Christiancharity of just putting them at
ease and making them feel knownand loved.
I think there's a lot to besaid there.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
How many volunteers were there?
Some of these pilgrims come inthey're very some of them and
making them feel known and loved.
I think there's a lot to besaid there, absolutely.
How many volunteers were there?
So many pilgrims come in?
They're very nervous.
I mean, they're just, you know,they're solar, they're by
themselves and here they havethis backpack and you know, do I
have everything I need?
One of the things we had atthis particular albergue is we
(28:41):
had the pilgrims leave theirbackpacks in a secluded area and
then we only had them take likeup to their room, to their bed
area was just a box with justwhat they needed that night to
get through the night.
So that was kind of like thefirst step in preparing them for
their stays in these Alberguesalong the way.
(29:03):
Yeah, you know what do you need?
And just kind of think aboutthe things that they brought.
And so that was.
I think that's why he does it.
I think he, I think that's whythe host does that, because he's
kind of setting that tone rightat the beginning.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Sure, I love it.
Yeah, putting those lessons andthose that thought in their
head early on what, how manyvolunteers were there and how is
your Spanish?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Ah good, so I was the only volunteer.
Wow, there was the, the owner,and then he has a basically a
full-time helper, his assistant,who does a lot of the cooking
and prep work, and then in themorning he has a lady that comes
in and she kind of juststraightens up a little bit.
(29:52):
So it's basically the four ofus each day.
So our day started at 3 o'clockin the afternoon when the
pilgrims check in at three, andthen I basically was up till
about probably 1030 every nightjust cleaning the kitchen.
I did a lot of dishes becauseyeah, did a lot of dishes for at
(30:13):
the nighttime and breakfast.
So when I was ready to go, whenI hit the pillow, I was out.
It was like, oh, it's such along day.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, but such a fulfilling, I can't imagine how
fulfilling it would be.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
So when I first showed up, it was like, you know
, I'm going home, like, okay,what do I need to do?
What do I need to do?
And they trusted me so muchwith different tasks and I
really did appreciate that theydidn't really know me.
We talked on the phone, wetalked on WhatsApp, but like
(30:47):
from day one it was like therewas a they felt at ease with me
and it was like, okay, well, youcan check the Pilgrims in, we
feel comfortable about this.
At night, I basically wouldstay with the pilgrims.
The owner lived like kind of inthe next town, so it was maybe
like a 10 or 15 minute drive.
(31:07):
So basically when he left atnight, I was kind of in charge,
like from day one.
I was like, okay, wow, god,you're in charge, you know, and
luckily there was no incidencesor anything like that and
everybody's so tired, they go tosleep.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah.
They would wake up in themorning, but yeah, Did you find
communication difficult becauseyou have people from all over,
or was it pretty?
Yeah, what was that like?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yes, so my French is not very good.
I tried to practice a couple ofwords, but it did.
I botched that up, but mySpanish is better.
I can read, I can speak alittle bit Spanish and I can
understand a little bit, as longas people are speaking a little
slower, little slower, but I've.
(31:57):
I kind of like, over the lasttwo years I've been working
online with with some onlinetutors, because I really love
Spain.
I really see myself going backto Spain every year and maybe
volunteering again, like youasked.
Would I be interested in doingthis again?
Absolutely, I absolutely would,and so most I would say
(32:20):
probably 75% of the people thatI came across did speak some
English, which was reallyhelpful.
A lot of French, and so thelanguage barrier wasn't too bad
yeah.
I'm sure there was some creativesign language and some creative
communication tools, absolutely, absolutely, like he had his,
(32:45):
the host, he had the rules, helike he had all the, the, the,
the events, like the timeschedule for each day, and so I
would just show people and goover it, like, okay, this is the
check-in time, this is when youhave to check out, this is, you
know, this is the do's anddon'ts and the quiet hours, and
(33:06):
so that was that was helpful.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
What advice would you have for someone who is
thinking about doing the Caminobut is unsure?
Like they've heard about it,it's intriguing to them.
What piece of advice would yougive that person?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Well, I would say you know that saying let go and let
God, like just you know, be allin, be adventurous, kind of get
out of your comfort zone.
It's so fulfilling and sorewarding.
Don't be afraid, you know, putyour trust and faith in your
(33:48):
faith it's.
There's so many differentcaminos that you can walk so
many segments.
You don't have to do the whole.
You know 500 kilometer, youknow 500 mile venture.
There's so many differentsegments that you could do.
So it's what you feelcomfortable with and people know
their own physical, theirphysical sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
What they're able to do physically and they know
themselves spiritually as well.
And what are they searching for?
What are they looking for?
But the physical part, it wouldbe up to them.
As far as what they couldaccomplish, sure, yeah, but I
would encourage, I absolutelyencourage them.
Uh, coming back home, I've runinto so many people that have
(34:38):
said, well, I can never do acommunal.
I'm like you know what youcould do it, you could do it,
just have to kind of put yourmind to it and you know, don't
be afraid.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah, and I think I like how.
I like how you mentioned likeyou don't have to do the whole
thing, it's you know.
I mean your Camino is yourCamino, right, and you know, if
you think you can't do the wholething, like you can still do a
Camino and I think that's,that's very reassuring.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, what advice would you give someone who maybe
has decided they're going andthey're going to go, and do you
have any advice?
I know you don't want to saytoo much, you don't want to
spoil it for that person, but doyou have any advice for them
before they set off?
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, just be open to your daily experiences and take
it all in.
It's not a race, it's what youdo every day and it's just take
every moment that you haveeverything that kind of God's
thrown out at you, whether it'slooking at animals along the
(35:46):
side of the road or thebeautiful flowers, the mountains
, maybe it's in conversationwith people.
Maybe some days that you justwant to, you want a quiet day
where you're just not going totalk to anybody, and that's fine
too.
And maybe there's a day thatyou really want to talk to.
You know you want to join inwith some people and talk to
them.
So I think my advice is just beopen to what the Camino gives
(36:11):
you, because every day isdifferent.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, I feel like both of those pieces of advice
are good for anybody living theChristian life and I know that
so often the Camino is thatmicrocosm of the Christian life,
but both of those pieces ofadvice are probably things we
need to take into our daily lifejust to be open, to be ready
for what the Lord has to give us.
So often we want to control ourlives and control our
(36:37):
timetables and what if the Lordwants to surprise us?
And are we open to that?
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Yeah, as we wrap up, is there anything else you'd
like to share a story you know,anything else you'd like to
share about your time on theCamino and to share with us that
experience?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
You know there's so many stories.
You know I could talk hours andhours on the Camino.
You know I could talk hours andhours on the Camino.
This has been wonderful for mebecause it's it's allowed me to
re-experience my Camino.
But one thing that I took withme on the Camino was for
confirmation.
(37:23):
We have we ordered these thepins of the Holy Spirit, and the
particular ones that I had wereblessed by the Bishop of St
Augustine.
So I carried those with me andmy goal was people along the way
, anybody that made an impact onme or they needed some kind of
(37:43):
spiritual uplifting.
I would give them a pin, and tome that was the most rewarding
thing.
It was incredible, and thefirst person I gave a pin to was
this guy that was just kind ofsitting on the side of the road
and I wasn't going to stop andtalk to him.
I was like, nah, you know what,he's in his, he's in his zone.
You know I don't want to botherhim.
But then something said youknow what, Stop and talk to him.
(38:06):
And I did, and we got totalking and he actually helped
me with.
There was an app that I didn'tknow about which helped me
prepare my daily routines and myroute and also places to stay.
He lives in Brazil.
I gave him one of the pins andhe was so appreciative of that
(38:29):
and I told him, I said againyou're never alone.
The Holy Spirit is with you andthe Holy Spirit will protect
you and guide you along the day,along your route, and I'm a
firm believer on that.
I think the Holy Spirit is ouradvocate, he's our paraclete,
he's with us every day.
And his story was that he was amartial arts instructor back in
(38:55):
Brazil and his goal was to openup his own studio.
And after a couple months of himbeing back in Brazil, he shared
with me that he was able toopen up his studio.
So I am just like so proud ofhim and uh, and and kind of,
that's how, that's how I, that'show I uh distributed the pins,
(39:17):
uh, people to help me, or I justsaw something, whether they
were in in the church at thetime and they were at the mass
and they were receiving a billof the pilgrims blessing, and I
could just see in their, intheir expression, that they were
in awe and I just knew that Godwas somehow speaking to them
(39:38):
and just they were.
You know, you know that sayingabout God puts people in your
lives, along your path.
It's, it's so true.
Like so many people you run intothat are that are helpful and
it's, it's truly an amazingexperience for me.
My no, no regrets it was itchanged my life.
(39:58):
It really did and and, like yousaid, when you come back into
reality, when you come back tothe states and you come back to
your, your life, you take somany things from the camino and
you come back to your, your life.
Um, you take so many thingsfrom the Camino with you every
day.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Yeah absolutely.
Beautiful.
Thank you, greg, I'm.
You have to wonder ifsomebody's telling a story on
some who knows where in theworld and your pin is part of
their story.
And you don't know that right,you don't know what somebody's
story might be.
And they said I needed a signor I needed a reminder, and this
(40:32):
guy gave me this Holy Spiritpin and changed my life.
And one thing I can't wait forheaven is to see how all of our
lives make up that tapestry andhow we've all intersected, even
in ways we might not know, andhow our story has impacted
someone else's story.
And so it'll be a fun reunion,hopefully for you someday in
(40:53):
heaven to meet all these Caminouh, fellow Camino walkers and to
see where their their liveshave gone you know, thank you,
thank you.
So well.
Thanks, Greg.
Thanks for joining us.
I really appreciate theconversation.
Um thanks for the and listeners.
Share this with someone.
Maybe you know someone whowould be perfect to walk the
Camino.
Maybe you're thinking about it,but share this episode with
(41:15):
someone who might be thinkingabout it.
Maybe this is the encouragementthey need, just like Greg got
his postcard, and that postcardchanged his life.
So be that person thatencourages others.
God bless.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
All right, wing Camino.
Welcome to In Via, the podcast where we're
navigating the pilgrimage oflife.
We are all in via on the wayand we are learning a lot as we
go.
I'm your host, joan Watson.
Join me as we listen to stories, discover travel tips and learn
more about our Catholic faith.
Along the way, we'll see thatif God seeks to meet us in
(00:21):
Jerusalem, rome or Santiago, healso wants to encounter you
right there in your car, on yourrun or in the middle of your
workday.
In today's episode, I am joinedby Greg Sherman, who recently
walked the Camino and shareswith us about his time of
volunteering on the Camino.
(00:41):
We talk all about this veryfamous pilgrimage, but
especially look at what is itlike to evangelize through the
Camino.
It's great to have you on thepodcast at last.
Greg and I have been talkingabout the Camino off and on at
conferences and through email,and I'm really glad that now
we're actually talking about iton the podcast.
(01:02):
I'm very excited about thisepisode.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Same here, same here.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So we always start by asking our guests a little bit.
I speak in the royal we,apparently.
I always start the episodesasking our guests to talk a
little bit about themselves.
And that can be difficultbecause there's probably so much
to say and I know we'll get toknow you through this episode.
But I always give people thehard task of saying if you could
(01:27):
tell people three things aboutyourself, three sentences, what
would you say?
And I'm pretty liberal andgenerous with that three.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Thank you.
Well, first and foremost, Iwould say that I am a very proud
father of a daughter who livesin Denver.
She works for a Catholicnonprofit and she just turned 30
years old this year and I guessshe's the joy of my life and
I'm just so proud of her andwhat she's accomplished and also
(01:56):
how she's helped me spirituallyin my life.
She's been kind of like a rockfor me as well.
Second of all, I guess I wouldsay that I'm a retired middle
school teacher.
I taught history for close to 20years and now, being retired, I
have some opportunities to dosome things that I really enjoy,
(02:17):
and that's giving back to thecommunity, doing some community
service activities, like workingwith some nonprofits.
I also volunteer as a mentorlocally in my community and get
to travel a little bit more thanI was able to do when I was a
teacher.
Yeah, and then I guess, aboutmy faith, you know I'm a cradle
(02:42):
Catholic, grew up Catholic andI've always been a practicing
Catholic and now I teachconfirmation classes.
I've been teaching confirmationfor about 20 years and it's one
of those sacraments that bringsa lot of joy to me because of
the Holy Spirit.
And when I travel, when I pray,I always feel like the Holy
(03:05):
Spirit is with me.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
Yeah, lovely, those kids are lucky because to have a
former teacher, you know whatyou're doing teaching, but then,
to be open to the Holy Spirit,you allow him to lead, I'm sure.
So those confirmation studentsand your pastor are both very
lucky to have you in that role.
We're going to be talking todayabout the Camino and we've
(03:29):
talked on this show before aboutthe Camino.
We've talked about the historyof the Camino, we've talked to
people who've walked the Camino.
I do find that of all pilgrims,camino pilgrims are the most
excited to talk about theirexperience and to say interview
me about the experience.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Exactly.
That's why I'm smiling.
I know we're recording audio,but if your listeners can see me
, I'm smiling Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:56):
And I'd love to talk more about that, because I do
think the Camino is sotransformative you can't help
but share after you get home.
But just to start off, how manytimes have you been to Spain?
Have you walked part or all ofthe Camino, or have you made a
Camino?
I guess I should say.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
Absolutely yeah.
So I've been to Spain twice.
My first Camino was last year,in 2023.
And I was able to walk theCamino Frances, which was the
entire northern part of Spain,from St Jean in France to
Santiago.
So that was last April and Mayand that took me about 38 days
(04:36):
to accomplish that.
And then this past spring, acouple months ago, I also went
back to Spain and I walked asmall Camino, camino Bastan,
which runs from Bayonne, france,to Pamplona, spain.
But I also volunteered at analbergue for two weeks in St
(04:58):
Jean, which was really thehighlight of my previous trip,
my most recent trip Ever.
Since I left Spain back lastspring, I've wanted to go back,
no doubt Every day.
I kept thinking when am I goingto go back, when am I going to
go back?
And then I heard that there's away that you can volunteer.
So you know, through the goodLord, he put me in touch with a
(05:22):
person that had a connectionwith an albergue in St John and
I communicated with the ownerand we talked about dates and
next thing, I know I'm headingback to France and Spain and
helping out.
You know, as a kid growing upand going on family vacations,
(05:43):
which we did maybe one familyvacation every year.
I always loved staying athotels and like places like that
.
So as a kid growing up I waslike, ah, this would be great, I
would love to like work in aplace like this one day.
And I never really fulfilledthat, that goal or that dream.
But uh, but I would honestlysay like last month I was able,
(06:04):
or back in May of this year Iwas able to do that.
Speaker 1 (06:08):
Yeah, and you weren't just working at any hotel, but
working in that ministrycapacity, I think, at a place
where people weren't just onholiday but were seeking, I
think would definitely make iteven better.
And I want to talk about thatvolunteer time especially.
But I want to go back and kindof go back to Greg pre first
(06:29):
Camino and ask you what drew youto make a Camino?
Why?
Why was that attractive?
Or did you really know what youwere getting yourself into?
Speaker 2 (06:38):
even yeah, great question.
So I didn't really knowanything about the Camino.
I received a postcard from mycousin who was traveling with
her husband in Portugal andSpain.
And this postcard comes in themail and it's a.
It's a postcard of all theroutes going to Santiago and she
(06:59):
challenged me.
She said you know, what routeare you going to do?
And I was like I have no idea,I don't understand.
You know, I have no idea whatthis is all about.
So I started Googling, Istarted talking to some people,
I went to the library, I foundbooks and I was hooked.
As soon as I saw my first video,just a YouTube video, I was
(07:19):
like, no, this is, this is forme.
So I called a good friend ofmine in Ohio and I asked her.
I said you know, you got tocheck this out.
And then the two of us kind oflike, talked and and she was
very interested as well.
So she said, no, this is yes,let's do it.
You know, what time of yearshould we do this?
(07:40):
What route should we take?
So there's a lot of, a lot ofunanswered questions at the time
, but but then just just doingthe research.
But I, but I was, I was hookedas soon as I read about what it
was and how long this has beengoing on, and I just I decided
this is something I want to do.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, do you know what caused her to challenge you
in that way?
I mean, she had never I'massuming she had never walked
one.
Do you know what made her likereach out to you and like pose
that question, and did she knowwhat she was going to create?
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Yeah, I don't think either one of us, neither one of
us uh knew this.
Uh, I had met Sally from Ohioin Peru the previous year.
My niece and I had gone to Peruto uh to, to travel to Machu
Picchu, and um, sally was one ofthe first Americans we met and
(08:31):
she was a solo traveler byherself, uh, no fear, and she
just inspired me.
So over the you know, over thatyear between Peru and then when
we walked the Camino, I kept intouch with her and she was the
first one I thought aboutreaching out.
Uh, and if there's anybody inthe world that would say, let's
do this thing, let's, let's go,it would be, it would be my
(08:54):
friend Sally.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
I love it and uh yeah , Um, what surprised you and
this is probably a huge questionwith lots of different answers-
but um what surprised you andthis is probably a huge question
with lots of different answersbut, um, what surprised you
about the camino?
Because you had done all thisresearch, you had watched videos
, you had read books, you, youknow you went in knowing a lot
about it, but I know that youdon't know anything until you're
(09:18):
on it, right.
Um, what surprised you aboutthe, your experience on that
first Camino?
Speaker 2 (09:27):
One of the things that jumps out is just the
people from all over the world,from different cultures.
Yeah, I had no idea that somedays I would be walking with
(09:47):
people from Australia and HongKong and Taiwan and Ireland and
Italy.
That was number one.
I knew I would meet pilgrimsbecause I knew it was very
popular, but I just had no ideathat and I would get to know
some people by talking with them.
Secondly, I think the othersurprise was the amount of
churches along the way that wereclosed or locked or or like
(10:07):
they.
They were turned into museumsbasically, um, and there weren't
services.
But that was mostly in, like,the smaller towns, cause on the
Camino you're going to, you knowyou're going to walk for you
know 775 kilometers and you'regoing to go through some of
these small towns, um, some ofthem were pretty much vacant.
Like that was.
(10:28):
That was a surprise as well.
So you walk into these smalltowns and you don't really see
anybody.
And then you come across thesechurches and you're like, wow, I
really want to get in thischurch and I really want to look
at.
You know, inside it's like thisis you're talking about a ninth
or 10th, 11th century churchand we couldn't.
We couldn't get into.
A lot of times I couldn't getinto the churches.
(10:50):
So, but someone had someone hadtold me that you know kind of
heads up on that, but beingthere and like wanting to go in
these churches and not beingable to get into them was kind
of kind of a downer in a way.
If there was any downer on thetrip, yeah, so I guess that was
(11:13):
it.
And I think just realizing whatlittle you need to take with
you, you know when you'repacking, you know you get into
the routine every day, so it'syou think about your backpack
every day, about you know, do Ireally need all this stuff?
What can I leave behind?
Speaker 1 (11:30):
So yeah, did you find yourself shedding things that
you thought you needed, that youdidn't?
Speaker 2 (11:37):
I did yes, I did Absolutely yes.
Um, you know, my backpack waswas within the range they said
about 10% of your body weight.
So I was carrying probablyaround 16 pounds total with
everything.
And I realized that there weresome things that I brought.
Like, I brought a lightweighthoodie that was not the best
(11:59):
quality as far as material todry and wash, and so along the
way, maybe like a third of theway, I just decided you know
what I'm going to, I'm going towash it, I'm going to dry it,
I'm going to give it to some,you know, to the, to the
Albergue, the hostel, and somepilgrim will want it.
Um, I also brought like anextra pair of long pants and I
found myself you know what, I'mwearing a pair today and I have
(12:21):
an extra pair.
I don't really need a thirdpair.
So that was kind of verytherapeutic for me as well, very
therapeutic.
Speaker 1 (12:30):
I love the spiritual lessons that people come away
from the Camino with that areusually attached to attachment
and detachment that I thoughtthat I needed all this in life
and I have this baggage, and howcan the Lord free me from that?
And finding freedom in less andshedding those things, whether
(12:54):
it's a bad habit or an extrapair of pants what does the Lord
want us to shed today on ourCamino through life?
I think that's just a reallypowerful reflection.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Absolutely, absolutely, cause you know you
have a lot of time forreflection, as you're walking
every day, I guess, averagingabout 13 to 15 miles per day,
and you do have so much time tokind of listen to God, um, to
kind of reevaluate your life and, to be honest with you, I, I
was able to like go back over myentire life from like growing
(13:28):
up in New York and my time in inmiddle school, my time in high
school, my time in college um,just thinking about all the
people that you know that I'veencountered that have helped me
along my way, all the strugglesthat you face, and you're right,
going back to the backpack,it's an exercise in you know
(13:48):
what do we need and then, likeyou know, when we get back home,
all the things that weaccumulate.
You know, being such amaterialistic society, it really
has helped me reevaluate mylife and become more simplistic.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
Yeah, and that reliance on others even.
I mean, somebody maybe reallyneeded that hoodie and you were
able to pay it forward but wealso rely on others, you know,
like maybe you don't need tocover every possibility in your
backpack, because maybe someonewill have something that you
need and that yeah, I just feellike there's a lot of spiritual
(14:25):
lessons on the camino, more soeven than any other trip, right?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
I hear these coming out of you know, they always the
buzzword, the buzz sentences.
The camino will provide so uh,you know like you know, when I
first heard this, what does thatmean?
Does that mean like, do I nottake any money with me?
And it's just like going to beprovided.
And you know, there were somepilgrims that walk with you know
bare minimum, and they go intothe Camino with the attitude of
(14:54):
that it will provide for likeeverything.
They'll find housing, they'llfind somebody that will give
them food, but yeah, and theCamino does provide.
It's just a strangestphenomenon, you know phenomenon
yeah, because the Lord providesright.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
It's very biblical, absolutely and, of course,
walking.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
you know, walking those days and doing reflection.
You can't help but think aboutthe thousands and thousands of
pilgrims over the years thathave walked this route, and the
stories, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:33):
You know, I think sometimes you know, even
thinking about the Camino willprovide, when it's the Lord
providing.
Sometimes there's kind of likethis mystique around the Camino
that attracts people who aren'teven Christian, don't have no
belief in the idea of St Jamesand a pilgrimage to his tomb,
which, of course, the Camino is.
Did you encounter a lot ofpeople from other faiths, from
(15:56):
other backgrounds, who aren'tChristian, who weren't making
this for Christian purposes, andwhy do you think those people
are drawn to the Camino as well?
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yes.
So I run into a variety ofpeople, no doubt Christians and
non-Christians.
The one sentence I kept hearingover and over again from some
people that I walked alongside,or people that when I walked
into churches, the ones thatwere open in the cathedrals,
(16:25):
they were in awe of the beautyof these churches, but then they
would.
They would kind of lean over tome and say, you know, I'm not
really religious and I I think Imissed Joan, I think I missed
the opportunity on the firstCamino.
I heard that so often and I wasthinking is God reaching out to
(16:45):
me, like hitting me with thenewspaper and saying, hey, wake
up.
This is an opportunity.
And at times I did.
I shared my faith when I feltcomfortable, but there were so
many opportunities that I couldhave really told them the good
news and shared the good news.
So people do you know, obviouslythey go for religious reasons,
(17:07):
they want to get closer to God,and I saw a lot of that.
I saw a lot of tears.
I saw a lot of people in joyduring the pilgrim's masses,
enjoy.
During the pilgrims masses,each kind of each night there's
a, there's always a pilgrimsmass that they offer to bless
the pilgrims and it's prettywell attended.
(17:29):
And looking around and I youknow you don't have to be
christian, you don't have tohave beliefs.
It's just one of those thingsand I always encourage people to
to attend that pilgrims massand everybody walks out with a
smile and they just feel likeyou know they receive the
special blessing that helps them.
(17:49):
Whatever this, whatever they'restruggling with others, do the
camino for you know, maybe itcould be a change in their
career, maybe they're dealingwith an addiction, maybe they're
trying to overcome somethingthat you know, just get a
different outlook on their life.
All different ages.
I walked with college kids andI walked with one small family
(18:16):
and I walked with a lot of olderpeople as well.
I walked with single people,married people, so yeah.
And you know, and you try not topry with kind of you kind of
respect people's privacies, butwhen you're you know, it's just
it's.
It's those moments that peoplefeel comfortable with you and
(18:39):
they open up to you.
Sure, and when I got back fromthe Camino, I kind of realized
that you know, hey, maybe thatwas what I was supposed to
accomplish, maybe I was justsupposed to be a good listener,
maybe people feel comfortableenough with me that they opened
up to me and, uh, they, theyneeded that in their, on their,
(19:04):
in their lives right now.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
Yeah, when you look at the Camino as I mean you said
on your first Camino you wonderlike should I have said more?
Should I have shared my faithmore?
Did that change on either your,your second Camino or when you
were volunteering?
Did you approach it differentlybecause you knew that these
things were going to come up?
Speaker 2 (19:25):
Yes absolutely.
Yeah, what I, what I, um, when Icame back from the Camino, uh,
what are the things that?
Uh, one of the goals or my, mythoughts on the first Camino was
you know God, where do you wantme to go in life?
You know, I retired as a middleschool teacher.
I had.
I have time.
You've given me the time.
(19:47):
You've obviously given me sometalents.
What's my next step in life?
And you know, I'm still workingon that, but my volunteering
has helped me establish that.
Just being kind to people andjust showing through actions.
(20:10):
I think that's helped me a lot.
I can show my spirituality andmy Christianity through doing
things for doing things forother people and, you know, and
and and blessing people alongthe way.
Just, you know, just tellingthem, you know I'll pray for you
.
If somebody was going throughsomething would always, would
(20:32):
always go about asking people toyou know if it's okay for them,
for me to pray for them, andthen, on this Camino, for me to
pray for them.
And then, on this Camino working, I had an opportunity to meet
15 to 16 pilgrims a day, newpilgrims that were starting
their Camino.
So I felt like, okay, god, I'mgoing to listen to your
(20:53):
challenge, I'm going to do mybest, and I had some
opportunities to do that.
One particular story I canthink about is there was a
gentleman from the United Stateswho, after talking to him, he
lost his father a couple ofmonths ago and he was doing this
Camino, and I just simply saidto him your dad's with you on
(21:20):
this Camino, he's with you everystep of the way.
Don't ever forget that.
And you know, he gave me a hugand then, like he like, he
teared up and he said Thank you.
That means a lot to me.
The other thing is to remindthe pilgrims we did it.
There was a mass in St John.
(21:41):
Every night it's at seveno'clock and it was a mass, a
short Catholic mass, and theythey do it in Basque, so it's in
the Basque language and that's.
That was really nice.
But I always encourage pilgrimsto, before dinner is to to
attend this mass and to get ablessing, and so I felt like
(22:03):
that was another way I couldoutreach to people, even though
you may not attend mass.
Maybe you don't know what'sgoing on, but it's just one
other aspect of that.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
So so yeah, so yes I did.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
I did kind of wake up a little bit and say, okay, all
right, here's, I could's, Icould do, this, I could do this.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
Yeah, I do feel like there are so many opportunities
that are probably, you know,there's so many opportunities
because the Camino is such avulnerable time where people are
looking for answers and sooften when we try to share the
gospel, sometimes we try toshare it with people who aren't
looking for answers, you know.
And so I had a friend who didthe Camino, who had the same
(22:41):
comment that you did about thechurches being closed and how
difficult that was to see andhow surprising it was, because
she said I'm on this spiritualjourney, I want to go into these
churches and and to visit Jesusand and see Christ in, you know
, in the Eucharist and um, andwhat a great Testament that
would be for those people whomaybe are looking and are
(23:04):
looking for answers.
And so we laughed and said weshould start a nonprofit that
goes and works at all thesechurches and preaches the gospel
and just shares the good newsat all these little churches.
So, greg, if we ever do that,I'm going to recruit you to go
with us, absolutely.
Wouldn't that be.
It would just be phenomenalbecause there are so many people
(23:25):
searching?
Speaker 2 (23:26):
Yeah, and there was one town and I ran into there
was a volunteer at one of thechurches and that was like his
role, like he had, he haddecided he was going to relocate
to Spain and you know oldergentlemen, and uh, that's what
he does every day.
He spends several hours in thechurch and he greets people and
(23:47):
he tells them all about thechurch and the history.
And uh, I was like, oh yes,this is something I'd love to do
.
I can pull that off, but yeah,that was, that was a special
moment as well.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
Yeah, Such a beautiful way to evangelize at a
moment in people's lives, Ithink.
So let's talk about yourvolunteering, because I think
that's a really unique chance.
I've had a lot of people walkthe Camino, but I've never met
someone who volunteered in thatway.
And you told us a little bitwhat drew you to it, but, um,
(24:20):
and you've told us some of yourexperiences evangelizing.
Um, but what did you, what didyou find in that, in that
experience?
And?
Um, you know, would you do itagain?
Would you encourage others?
What, what?
Just tell us a little bit aboutthat, Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, so it's such a great, wonderful experience.
Um, you know, I, I there's thethe American, the American
Pilgrims on Camino is anorganization here in the States.
They have different chaptersaround the country and every
year they have like three orfour different places where you
can go to do training and it'slike a two or three day training
, which is great.
(24:54):
And I kind of looked at mycalendar and I could.
It didn't work out for me thispast year to make any of those
trainings.
But I found a friend of minefrom Jacksonville I live in
North Florida.
She called me and we weretalking and she told me about
this one place in St John andshe said, hey, if you're going
(25:15):
back to do a Camino and youreally want to volunteer, let me
put you in touch with the owner.
So we did and, uh, and itworked out that, uh, he likes to
have his volunteers go for twoweeks at a time.
So I was there for about 14 or15 days and you know I was the
friend of mine, told me a littlebit about it but didn't give me
(25:36):
all the details.
So I didn't really know what Iwas getting involved in.
But uh but, like I said, one ofmy dreams was to be an owner of
a hotel and operate a hotel.
So this was great for me toexperience this.
So I just kind of jumped in andpart of my daily routines was
to check in the pilgrims, togreet them, to get them settled
(26:00):
into a bed or a room that theyhad.
We did reservations, so wealways checked the reservation
book.
Basically it was just welcomingthem and kind of putting that
ease.
They're getting ready to starttheir Camino.
Obviously, having walked thecamino, I was able to help them
(26:22):
with any questions that theymight have had, without telling
them too much, because you neverwant to spoil somebody's camino
and the camino is different foreverybody, as you, as you
probably know from previous uhinterviews that you had.
And then I would help in thekitchen prepare the meal.
We offered a simple vegetarianmeal every night.
(26:43):
So that got me out of mycomfort zone a little bit.
I like to cook, but I'm notlike a great cook and I can be a
good helper.
So I was like, okay, tell mewhat I need to do.
You're the sous chef do you'rethe sous chef?
Yeah, between you and I, Inever want to peel any more
(27:03):
carrots or potatoes.
I never want to chop upvegetables.
Uh, for a while I, I, you knowI did that.
Yeah, so, and then we set up,you know, set up the table, and
we always did an introductionevery night to to find out where
the pilgrims were from, andthen kind of ask them also, you
know what, what brought them tothe community?
What do they, you know, hope togain from the community?
(27:26):
And our host it was one he'sbeen doing this for about 10
years and he was a great personto work under taught me a lot
about just welcoming people andputting people at ease and
inspiring them.
Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, that biblical virtue of hospitality I think is
often lost in our world.
I think sometimes we think ofvirtues as being these big hard
things like temperance andprudence and we forget the very
human virtues like hospitalityand just making people feel at
home.
Right In Scripture it says likebe hospitable because you may
be entertaining angels.
(28:05):
And just that idea that each ofus have dignity and each of us
have a story, and especially assomeone's beginning their Camino
, that beautiful Christiancharity of just putting them at
ease and making them feel knownand loved.
I think there's a lot to besaid there.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
How many volunteers were there?
Some of these pilgrims come inthey're very some of them and
making them feel known and loved.
I think there's a lot to besaid there, absolutely.
How many volunteers were there?
So many pilgrims come in?
They're very nervous.
I mean, they're just, you know,they're solar, they're by
themselves and here they havethis backpack and you know, do I
have everything I need?
One of the things we had atthis particular albergue is we
(28:41):
had the pilgrims leave theirbackpacks in a secluded area and
then we only had them take likeup to their room, to their bed
area was just a box with justwhat they needed that night to
get through the night.
So that was kind of like thefirst step in preparing them for
their stays in these Alberguesalong the way.
(29:03):
Yeah, you know what do you need?
And just kind of think aboutthe things that they brought.
And so that was.
I think that's why he does it.
I think he, I think that's whythe host does that, because he's
kind of setting that tone rightat the beginning.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Sure, I love it.
Yeah, putting those lessons andthose that thought in their
head early on what, how manyvolunteers were there and how is
your Spanish?
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Ah good, so I was the only volunteer.
Wow, there was the, the owner,and then he has a basically a
full-time helper, his assistant,who does a lot of the cooking
and prep work, and then in themorning he has a lady that comes
in and she kind of juststraightens up a little bit.
(29:52):
So it's basically the four ofus each day.
So our day started at 3 o'clockin the afternoon when the
pilgrims check in at three, andthen I basically was up till
about probably 1030 every nightjust cleaning the kitchen.
I did a lot of dishes becauseyeah, did a lot of dishes for at
(30:13):
the nighttime and breakfast.
So when I was ready to go, whenI hit the pillow, I was out.
It was like, oh, it's such along day.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah, but such a fulfilling, I can't imagine how
fulfilling it would be.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
So when I first showed up, it was like, you know
, I'm going home, like, okay,what do I need to do?
What do I need to do?
And they trusted me so muchwith different tasks and I
really did appreciate that theydidn't really know me.
We talked on the phone, wetalked on WhatsApp, but like
(30:47):
from day one it was like therewas a they felt at ease with me
and it was like, okay, well, youcan check the Pilgrims in, we
feel comfortable about this.
At night, I basically wouldstay with the pilgrims.
The owner lived like kind of inthe next town, so it was maybe
like a 10 or 15 minute drive.
(31:07):
So basically when he left atnight, I was kind of in charge,
like from day one.
I was like, okay, wow, god,you're in charge, you know, and
luckily there was no incidencesor anything like that and
everybody's so tired, they go tosleep.
Speaker 1 (31:23):
Yeah.
They would wake up in themorning, but yeah, Did you find
communication difficult becauseyou have people from all over,
or was it pretty?
Yeah, what was that like?
Speaker 2 (31:35):
Yes, so my French is not very good.
I tried to practice a couple ofwords, but it did.
I botched that up, but mySpanish is better.
I can read, I can speak alittle bit Spanish and I can
understand a little bit, as longas people are speaking a little
slower, little slower, but I've.
(31:57):
I kind of like, over the lasttwo years I've been working
online with with some onlinetutors, because I really love
Spain.
I really see myself going backto Spain every year and maybe
volunteering again, like youasked.
Would I be interested in doingthis again?
Absolutely, I absolutely would,and so most I would say
(32:20):
probably 75% of the people thatI came across did speak some
English, which was reallyhelpful.
A lot of French, and so thelanguage barrier wasn't too bad
yeah.
I'm sure there was some creativesign language and some creative
communication tools, absolutely, absolutely, like he had his,
(32:45):
the host, he had the rules, helike he had all the, the, the,
the events, like the timeschedule for each day, and so I
would just show people and goover it, like, okay, this is the
check-in time, this is when youhave to check out, this is, you
know, this is the do's anddon'ts and the quiet hours, and
(33:06):
so that was that was helpful.
Speaker 1 (33:09):
What advice would you have for someone who is
thinking about doing the Caminobut is unsure?
Like they've heard about it,it's intriguing to them.
What piece of advice would yougive that person?
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Well, I would say you know that saying let go and let
God, like just you know, be allin, be adventurous, kind of get
out of your comfort zone.
It's so fulfilling and sorewarding.
Don't be afraid, you know, putyour trust and faith in your
(33:48):
faith it's.
There's so many differentcaminos that you can walk so
many segments.
You don't have to do the whole.
You know 500 kilometer, youknow 500 mile venture.
There's so many differentsegments that you could do.
So it's what you feelcomfortable with and people know
their own physical, theirphysical sort of thing.
Speaker 1 (34:14):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
What they're able to do physically and they know
themselves spiritually as well.
And what are they searching for?
What are they looking for?
But the physical part, it wouldbe up to them.
As far as what they couldaccomplish, sure, yeah, but I
would encourage, I absolutelyencourage them.
Uh, coming back home, I've runinto so many people that have
(34:38):
said, well, I can never do acommunal.
I'm like you know what youcould do it, you could do it,
just have to kind of put yourmind to it and you know, don't
be afraid.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah, and I think I like how.
I like how you mentioned likeyou don't have to do the whole
thing, it's you know.
I mean your Camino is yourCamino, right, and you know, if
you think you can't do the wholething, like you can still do a
Camino and I think that's,that's very reassuring.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, what advice would you give someone who maybe
has decided they're going andthey're going to go, and do you
have any advice?
I know you don't want to saytoo much, you don't want to
spoil it for that person, but doyou have any advice for them
before they set off?
Speaker 2 (35:24):
Yeah, just be open to your daily experiences and take
it all in.
It's not a race, it's what youdo every day and it's just take
every moment that you haveeverything that kind of God's
thrown out at you, whether it'slooking at animals along the
(35:46):
side of the road or thebeautiful flowers, the mountains
, maybe it's in conversationwith people.
Maybe some days that you justwant to, you want a quiet day
where you're just not going totalk to anybody, and that's fine
too.
And maybe there's a day thatyou really want to talk to.
You know you want to join inwith some people and talk to
them.
So I think my advice is just beopen to what the Camino gives
(36:11):
you, because every day isdifferent.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, I feel like both of those pieces of advice
are good for anybody living theChristian life and I know that
so often the Camino is thatmicrocosm of the Christian life,
but both of those pieces ofadvice are probably things we
need to take into our daily lifejust to be open, to be ready
for what the Lord has to give us.
So often we want to control ourlives and control our
(36:37):
timetables and what if the Lordwants to surprise us?
And are we open to that?
Speaker 2 (36:42):
I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Yeah, as we wrap up, is there anything else you'd
like to share a story you know,anything else you'd like to
share about your time on theCamino and to share with us that
experience?
Speaker 2 (37:01):
You know there's so many stories.
You know I could talk hours andhours on the Camino.
You know I could talk hours andhours on the Camino.
This has been wonderful for mebecause it's it's allowed me to
re-experience my Camino.
But one thing that I took withme on the Camino was for
confirmation.
(37:23):
We have we ordered these thepins of the Holy Spirit, and the
particular ones that I had wereblessed by the Bishop of St
Augustine.
So I carried those with me andmy goal was people along the way
, anybody that made an impact onme or they needed some kind of
(37:43):
spiritual uplifting.
I would give them a pin, and tome that was the most rewarding
thing.
It was incredible, and thefirst person I gave a pin to was
this guy that was just kind ofsitting on the side of the road
and I wasn't going to stop andtalk to him.
I was like, nah, you know what,he's in his, he's in his zone.
You know I don't want to botherhim.
But then something said youknow what, Stop and talk to him.
(38:06):
And I did, and we got totalking and he actually helped
me with.
There was an app that I didn'tknow about which helped me
prepare my daily routines and myroute and also places to stay.
He lives in Brazil.
I gave him one of the pins andhe was so appreciative of that
(38:29):
and I told him, I said againyou're never alone.
The Holy Spirit is with you andthe Holy Spirit will protect
you and guide you along the day,along your route, and I'm a
firm believer on that.
I think the Holy Spirit is ouradvocate, he's our paraclete,
he's with us every day.
And his story was that he was amartial arts instructor back in
(38:55):
Brazil and his goal was to openup his own studio.
And after a couple months of himbeing back in Brazil, he shared
with me that he was able toopen up his studio.
So I am just like so proud ofhim and uh, and and kind of,
that's how, that's how I, that'show I uh distributed the pins,
(39:17):
uh, people to help me, or I justsaw something, whether they
were in in the church at thetime and they were at the mass
and they were receiving a billof the pilgrims blessing, and I
could just see in their, intheir expression, that they were
in awe and I just knew that Godwas somehow speaking to them
(39:38):
and just they were.
You know, you know that sayingabout God puts people in your
lives, along your path.
It's, it's so true.
Like so many people you run intothat are that are helpful and
it's, it's truly an amazingexperience for me.
My no, no regrets it was itchanged my life.
(39:58):
It really did and and, like yousaid, when you come back into
reality, when you come back tothe states and you come back to
your, your life, you take somany things from the camino and
you come back to your, your life.
Um, you take so many thingsfrom the Camino with you every
day.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Yeah absolutely.
Beautiful.
Thank you, greg, I'm.
You have to wonder ifsomebody's telling a story on
some who knows where in theworld and your pin is part of
their story.
And you don't know that right,you don't know what somebody's
story might be.
And they said I needed a signor I needed a reminder, and this
(40:32):
guy gave me this Holy Spiritpin and changed my life.
And one thing I can't wait forheaven is to see how all of our
lives make up that tapestry andhow we've all intersected, even
in ways we might not know, andhow our story has impacted
someone else's story.
And so it'll be a fun reunion,hopefully for you someday in
(40:53):
heaven to meet all these Caminouh, fellow Camino walkers and to
see where their their liveshave gone you know, thank you,
thank you.
So well.
Thanks, Greg.
Thanks for joining us.
I really appreciate theconversation.
Um thanks for the and listeners.
Share this with someone.
Maybe you know someone whowould be perfect to walk the
Camino.
Maybe you're thinking about it,but share this episode with
(41:15):
someone who might be thinkingabout it.
Maybe this is the encouragementthey need, just like Greg got
his postcard, and that postcardchanged his life.
So be that person thatencourages others.
God bless.
Speaker 2 (41:26):
All right, wing Camino.
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