October 8, 2024 • 40 mins
This week, we sat down with Sue Montalbano, the previous coordinator of tours and hospitality at the University of Notre Dame’s Sacred Heart Basillica.
Get ready to uncover the hidden stories behind the thousands of visitors welcomed to the Basilica of the Sacred Heart at the University of Notre Dame. From her stories of spontaneous visitors to the organized chaos of football weekends, Sue shares how she managed volunteer tour guides, created meaningful tour scripts, and ensures each visitor experiences the Basilica's deep spiritual significance. She shares how she used her role as her mission field, guiding every tourist into a pilgrim, helping them not only uncover history, but discover Christ.
In our conversation, Sue and Joan talk through the delicate balance of preserving the sacred atmosphere while catering to a diverse array of guests. Whether you're planning a pilgrimage, or just a fan of Notre Dame and the Fighting Irish, get ready to hear about it all!
Stories in Light by by Cecilia Davis Cunningham and Nancy Cavadini
A Spire of Faith by Thomas J Schlereth
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to In Via, the podcast where we're
navigating the pilgrimage oflife.
We are all in via on the wayand we are learning a lot as we
go.
I'm your host, joan Watson.
Join me as we listen to stories, discover travel tips and learn
more about our Catholic faith.
Along the way, we'll see thatif God seeks to meet us in
(00:21):
Jerusalem, rome or Santiago, healso wants to encounter you
right there in your car, on yourrun or in the middle of your
workday.
In this episode, we're turningthe tables a little bit.
We are not talking to a pilgrim, but to Sue Montalbano.
Now, sue's been on pilgrimageherself, but today our
(00:42):
conversation focuses on her timeat the University of Notre Dame
, working at the Basilica of theSacred Heart, not being a
pilgrim, but receiving pilgrims.
Well, thanks for joining us,sue.
I'm really excited for thisconversation.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
You're welcome.
Even if we were exchangingrecipes, I'd be here.
Well, maybe we could do that atthe end.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
That's the next episode.
So for people who I gave alittle intro to start the
episode, but could you tellpeople three sentences about
yourself?
I always that's kind of the waywe start a lot of our episodes
If you could only tell peoplethree sentences, what would you
say?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I would say anybody who knows me knows that I am a
very blessed daughter of God.
I've been blessed to be a wife,a mother, now a grandmother.
And thirdly, I would leteveryone know that I have an
addiction to ice cream and I'vepassed it to the rest of my
family.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
So that about covers it.
That's why we're friends.
Yes, that's why we're friends.
Yes, that's why we're friends.
So we are chatting today abouta position you once held, and
I'm excited because we talk alot about pilgrimage, obviously,
on this podcast.
But we talk a lot to pilgrimswho go to a holy place, go to a
shrine and then talk about theirexperience, and I was very
(02:02):
excited that you agreed to dothis, because we're going to
kind of flip that on its head.
We're going to talk to youabout receiving pilgrims.
So could you tell us a littlebit about what you did at the
Basilica of the Sacred Hearthere at Notre Dame?
What was your role?
And then, maybe, what did thatentail?
What did that role entail forpeople who might not be familiar
with it?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, I was officially coordinator of tours
and hospitality at the Basilicaof the Sacred Heart.
I was not hired to give tours,but rather to have a bird's eye
view of everything that wasgoing on there.
There were at any given time afew more, a few less, but around
(02:48):
60 volunteer tour guides at theBasilica and I would schedule
the tours, schedule the guides,make sure that we had
accommodations for anybody thatneeded extra help.
I worked with the Chamber ofCommerce in South Bend and
(03:10):
different tour companies thatcome on a regular basis.
Field trips I was a formerteacher so that was one of my
favorite things was field trips.
We had preschoolers throughcollege and adults coming
through and I would you knowthere were housekeeping things
(03:34):
walking through the basilicamaking sure everything was in
place.
I would order the little holycards at the entranceway and
restock them, keep an eye oneverything, make sure it was
well taken care of, and then Iwould help out anybody else that
worked at the Basilica duringthe holidays and special events
(03:56):
that we had there.
So it was fun.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I think it might surprise some people that I mean
they think of the University ofNotre Dame, they think of a
college, they think of research,they think of the football team
, and if you haven't been tocampus people might be surprised
that the Basilica would beworking with tour groups or
would be working with fieldtrips and so what like influx,
and I just think kind of ofSaturday mornings, right,
(04:21):
football fans wandering throughthe Basilica.
But to have organized tours,was that somebody?
People would approach theBasilica and say we're bringing
a group?
Would it be people justwandering in?
Like what for people who mightnot be familiar with the
Basilica?
What did that tour culture looklike?
Who was coming for tours?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I guess we had people that would just walk in off the
street.
You know, there's that bigNotre Dame sign out on the
tollway.
And they would, just you know,unexpectedly just veer off and
come on over.
But we also had regular fieldtrips and things that were
scheduled a year in advance.
Sometimes they were, you know,weeks out, days out, it just it
(05:06):
was all over the place.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So I think people I mean I was reading the stats
once for Indiana and I thinkNotre Dame's like the second
most visited tourist attractionin Indiana other than the
Speedway or something right yes,we would have hundreds of
thousands of people in and outand those are.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
You know we didn't have a scientific way to count
our visitors, but we were prettygood on football Saturdays.
We had counters and things likethat.
But so you know, any givenfootball weekend we could have
(05:46):
20,000 people through and we'reonly counting for a certain
amount of hours during the dayor certain, you know it's true.
During the week, so it's a lotof people.
Yeah, it's a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
It's a lot of people.
What drew you to the positionat the Basilica?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, like I said, I was a former teacher and I liked
the idea of my husband wasworking at Notre Dame, so that
was kind of a go-to, I guess, tolook for a job.
Yeah, saw the job and in myadult life I had never had a job
(06:26):
outside of a classroom, so thatwas kind of a oh I can, you
know, I don't have to askanybody, um, to go to the
bathroom or to watch anybodywhile I'm gone, so that was kind
of fun.
But um, uh, I think that, uh,I'm a real people person, so I
thought that was um was going tobe good.
I think that all of a realpeople person, so I thought that
was going to be good.
(06:46):
I think that all of my skillsas a teacher lent themselves to
the organization there, yeah,and so I think it was a good fit
, yeah yeah, what did you likemost about being at the Basilica
?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
How long were you there?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I was there for six years, okay, wow, about being at
the basilica.
How long were you there?
I was there for six years, okay, wow.
And we worked here.
You know our my job didn'twasn't seasonal or anything.
It went on going during breaksand yeah and all of that.
So, um I I started in februaryof 2016 to february of 2022 wow,
so um of 2022.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Wow, so, um, uh, yeah , and what?
Sorry, I interrupted myselfwith a new question.
So what would?
What did you like most?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
about your time.
I liked, uh, the people, ofcourse, and you meet people from
all over the world.
Um, I liked our guides and wehad most of them were retirees.
We had some seminarians, we hadsome high school kids and also
college students, but theyweren't able to be consistent
(07:55):
because of their schedules andtheir life going on.
But our retirees were really,really interesting and I think
when I started there, uh, ourkids were not married, I didn't
have, you know.
So I learned a lot from them.
They were just that muchfurther along than me, yeah and
(08:17):
um, and I still have, uh,friends excuse me, friends that
are.
You know that I still socializewith from meeting them at the
Basilica.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
I love that yeah, you learned how to be a good
grandma through the Navy GrandmaTips.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I did, because they would take off and go visit and
you know, they had their livesand this was just another way of
giving back and, of course,they enjoyed it.
Yeah, they were so passionateabout it, yeah, so yeah, what
were some of the challenges?
um, again it was, the challengeswere being able to be, uh,
(09:00):
flexible back and forth because,um, there are things that come
up in any church, and especiallythe basilica, where you have to
cancel on a dime.
You have to explain to peoplewhy.
You know the disappointmentthat they're not able to come
because of a funeral or aspecial event that's happening.
Football was always a challenge, because you have the
(09:24):
skateboards that want to comethrough the basilica.
Yes, and explaining, trying toexplain to people that this is a
place of worship and peoplethat really are not familiar
with Catholicism Sure, and tomake in spite of all that, to
make everybody feel welcome.
(09:45):
The parking Parking was alwaysan issue for all of our tours.
I would have to hightail it toanother part of campus to help
an RV turn around or help someseniors off of a bus and show
them you know which way we'regoing to go.
So just the logistics.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I think, think of every day, yeah, the things that
the people who are visitingdon't see.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
No, you hope they don't right, Because that means
it's going smoothly.
Yes, and you know juggling ourprogram with organ practice and
special tours by professors thatwe're not involved in Right
(10:31):
Coming through the facility andthings like that, and that's a
perfect example of things like.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I was just in Fatima this summer.
I didn't think about thosethings.
You don't think about thelogistics of running an enormous
shrine that has tens ofthousands of people.
You're just there as a pilgrimand you're enjoying it, but the
logistics of making everythingrun smoothly is just one of
those behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
You know, before I worked there I would show up at
church and think that this alljust magically happens, and now
I know it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
You see the sacristan moving and the signs moving yes
, Was it difficult you spokeabout the skateboarders Was it
difficult for the Basilica tojust not be another tourist
attraction on the campus?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I don't know if it was difficult for the Basilica,
but difficult to explainsometimes, yes, to people that
didn't have a background inCatholicism or in any religion
you know, maybe they werewithout a religion to understand
(12:01):
that this isn't a museumalthough there are great works
of art in there as we all know,but we aren't really docents, we
were tour guides, but we triedto think of it as a ministry and
(12:22):
have a sense of reverence allthe time when we were walking
through and tried to relay that,usually at the beginning of a
tour, if we could usually at thebeginning of a tour, if we
could and to answer, not to doit, not to do a tour rotely,
because you don't know whatpeople are coming in with um and
their background, although youusually find out or ask
(12:45):
questions, um, during that time.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, yeah, we talked before, before the episode, we
chatted and you mentioned youreally stressed the pilgrimage
aspect with the guides, thatthat was something that you
wanted.
They weren't docents and youdidn't want it just to be
another guided tour.
And so do you think it wasmostly in that showing of
reverence as you were walkingthrough, showing them that they
(13:11):
could mirror that?
So if I'm seeing my guidegenuflect, I know that
something's happening right.
I know that there's this is adifferent atmosphere or a lower
voice or the ways that you helpthe guides show that this is a
pilgrimage site and not just atour, that they weren't just
docents.
Can you speak a little bit moreabout that?
Was that the idea of justapproaching this with reverence
(13:34):
and that it's not a museum, andhow did you help your guides
kind of do that with theirgroups?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
one thing that, when I started, was I wanted to make
sure that, um, if you know thestory of the basilica and really
of notre dame, uh, you knowthat it's a very french story.
You know we're all about thefighting irish right, but this
is a very french story so youknow, we're all about the
fighting Irish right, but thisis a very French story so we all
had to get on the same page.
When I started, we did not havea script for any tour.
(14:04):
We also gave you know we givetours of the Basilica.
I don't know how Katie Pelzeris running things over there now
and she does a beautiful job.
I don't know how Katie Pelzeris running things over there now
and she does a beautiful job.
I don't know how they'rehandling but the log chapel
there is a bishop's museumdownstairs in the basilica and
(14:24):
also a museum off of thesacristy where my desk was back
then.
So I developed scripts for eachone of those to keep us all on
the same page.
But, having said that,everybody has their special part
of the basilica that they liketo concentrate on, and I think
(14:45):
that's fine and you would kindof give the information or
answer questions.
But if you wanted to spend moretime on the windows or the
altar, whatever, I think thatwas that was perfectly fine, so
um uh, I think that, um, thatwas key in keeping it.
(15:05):
Um, uh, not coming in thinkingit was going to be a football
tour yeah, that it was going tobe more of a sacred um story,
yes, of the development and thehow, how Notre Dame progressed
throughout the years and and howum faith was such a huge.
You know just everything, yeahas to how that happened, so that
(15:30):
that helped yeah, we're a.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
We're a catholic university before we're a
football program.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And I think people think about yeah, like you said,
the Fighting Irish.
People don't even realize.
And then they don't realizeit's Notre Dame du Lac and it's
Our Lady coming from.
And there's so many Frenchaspects in the Basilica, like
Our Lady of Lourdes, not justthe grotto, but the beautiful.
My favorite painting in theBasilica is the painting of Our
Lady of Lords, the stained glasswindow of Our Lady of Lords,
(15:57):
and so there's so many beautiful.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
French touches, and all of that was going on in real
time during, you know, duringNotre Dame's development in
those years.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
So, they were very interested in the story of all
the Holy Cross priests andeverybody that was here was very
interested in all of that Iheard and now you can correct me
if I'm wrong on this I heardthat the stained glass window of
our lady of lords is one of thefirst depictions of our lady of
lords in the united states.
Because it was so early on,yeah, in the story.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
I don't know that, but that's a good.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
I've never heard that , but that makes sense because
we don't when we put thetimeline together.
This wasn't ancient history, itwas all in real time.
Our Lady of Lords, our Lady,had appeared at Lords, father
Sorin had been to Lords and it'sthis beautiful French devotion
yes.
So I love.
That idea of stressing theFrench part helps us see that
this isn't just the fightingIrish Right, but that this is a
(16:50):
Catholicolic university um inlove with our lady the lady
chapel and and the log chapelfor people who don't.
People should look it up.
But the log chapel is thechapel of father soren, correct
that it's one of the ancient notancient but oldest buildings on
campus?
Because it's a replica, or isit the real?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
thing.
It is a replicate.
The original did burn.
Father baden was the one whowas there first, and so now the
oldest building is the oldcollege seminary.
And that's where they movedfrom the log chapel over to
there, because it got reallycold and they were so much more
(17:28):
comfortable in that brickbuilding right.
But now that is the oldest butthe.
But they did bring a um, um, uhartist.
I guess he would have been, buthe was uh to hone the boards um
the way they would have beenback then.
He was an ex-slave fromkentucky that they brought over
(17:48):
here to uh to rebuild it, so hewould know the art behind it.
So we think it looks very muchlike it did back then.
That's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, how would one go about?
Do you get a tour of the logchapel?
Can you have a tour of the logchapel, do you?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
contact the basilica.
You can contact the basilicaand you can.
Now, before I left, we wereable to schedule online, so you
don't even have to call.
You could schedule online andI'm sure Katie would work with
anybody who wanted to come,that's kind of one of those
(18:23):
hidden treasures.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I feel like you know, people don't necessarily know
about it and it's a littlehidden treasure on campus.
Do you think anyone ever cameto the Basilica just because
they stumbled upon it or theythought they were a tourist and
they ended up a pilgrim?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Every day, they ended up touched.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yes, every day, and nobody realized that.
Well, first of all, the eyecandy in there is wonderful
wonderful, I mean even if you'renot into the whole um religious
aspect of of it being abasilica and so forth, just the
the grandiose uh um spectaclethat you see when you walk in
(19:05):
there, which is all to the gloryof god.
Um, people wonder sometimeswell, why does it have to be so
elaborate or so?
Well, it's to the glory of God,and you know they did a lot.
We are so lucky we have thatbasilica in the state it is now
because, of course, during the60s, 1960s, of course they were
(19:26):
trying to tone down everythingand be minimalistic and it
didn't happen here, praise.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
God.
So gosh, they didn't whitewashthose walls, which we're
grateful for.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
No, and so people are drawn in initially because of
that.
But if you start talking to oneof our people that volunteer
there, you'll quickly find outthat there's so much more and
some people just want to.
You know they're 10 minutes andthey're getting the highlights
(19:58):
and we try to do you know whatthey're interested in Other
people.
They could stay three or fourhours.
They want every little bit thatthere is to know which is
really fun.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, I love that.
What's one thing most peopledon't know about?
The Basilica of the SacredHeart.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Well, there's one thing that people don't know is
that the stained glass windows,which I think are probably one
of the biggest treasures at theBasilica, were, we believe at
(20:39):
Notre Dame that it's one of thelargest collection of stained
glass from that time period, dueto the destruction in World War
I and II Wow.
So there's a company that takescare of many things in the
basilica, but one of the thingsis the stained glass windows and
(21:00):
that's Conrad Schmidt up inMilwaukee.
So you'll see every now andthen the scaffolding go up and
they take such good care of thewindows.
But you know, of course stainedglass windows are for
evangelization, right, they werea way to move God's message
because people weren't readingand things were in different
(21:20):
languages.
So it's such a treasure.
And to think that they werefired and made in France and
then, 1860s or so, they had tobe put on a boat, maybe a train,
maybe a wagon, who knows to gethere to Notre Dame.
(21:41):
They didn't get stolen, theydidn't get broken and we have
them today.
So that's just a such abeautiful story.
And I even brought a book toreference one of our tour guides
, nancy Cavadini and I'm sorry,nancy was not a tour guide, but
(22:02):
Cecilia Cunningham was, and theydid a book a few years back.
It's called Stories in Lightand gosh.
It's just if you're interestedin the Basilica windows, all of
them are pictured and they aredone in order as you walk in the
church so you can read aboutall of them.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yes, we will put that in the show notes so that
people can find it.
I love the windows because ofall the saints.
They depict the saints and thenthey have a little story from
the saints' life, and when I'min the long line of confession
that's always present beforeMass at the Basilica, I love
looking up at the windows andtrying to decipher what saint is
that and what story is thatdepicting.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Another thing that I love that people, just a fun
fact is the beautiful Pieta byIvan Mestrovic in the Basilica.
That is his original, wow.
And if you go to the Vatican,you'll see one that's just a
(23:07):
tabletop size in a differentcolor, because ours is Carrara
marble.
I think that I've seen it there, I think the one that I saw, I
think it was black and I'm notsure what it was made out of.
But there's a sign at theVatican that says the original
is in Notre Dame, indiana.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I love it.
I love it.
And that's in one of the sidechapels.
The side chapels are full oftreasures.
Oh my gosh, Cardinal O'Hara'stomb is there.
The relics, the reliccollection of the Basilica is
stunning.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Like you could get lost in that little chapel and
they just refurbish that rightand it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
It was closed for a while and I was worried and I
was like what's happening at therelic chapel and it's worth?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
it's just worth getting lost in all the saints
that are there and the very backof the basilica there's a lady
chapel and that was all brickedup.
And then for Father Soren's50th ordination anniversary that
was all added as a gift to himour lady chapel, because he had
such a devotion to our Blessed.
(24:08):
Mother, and that's probably oneof my favorite things.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, I love that that little back chapel.
Yes, and it's where thefootball team celebrates Mass on
.
Saturdays to bring out thefootball team again.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yes, and they have marriages back there.
It's really beautiful.
Thanks, yeah, it's reallybeautiful, it's really nice.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
So you may have just told us, but what would you say
is your favorite part of the?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Basilica.
I love our Blessed Mother, so Ihave to say that's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yes, going back there to see her.
It is really beautiful.
This wasn't in our prep, so I'mputting you on the spot, but
could you speak a little bitabout the museum as well?
Yes, you mentioned the museumand the sacristy where your
office was.
Could you speak a little bitabout what is there?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
A lot of things that are historically important to
the history of Notre Dame.
Not all of them, just asampling there's so many more
things over in the archives, inthe um in the library, but um uh
, it's a wide variety ofchalices, um uh, items that were
used um uh early on uh, robesand rings, gifts from the
(25:20):
Studebaker family to Notre.
Dame.
I'm trying to think here Someof the things from Father
Soren's travels.
On the average he went back toduring his time at Notre Dame he
made one trip back to Europe ayear.
Oh, wow, every year on theaverage.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
So he came back with some wonderful things, I bet.
So there are beautiful thingsback there.
So during my time there wetried to have it open on
Football Saturday so a lot ofpeople could come back and view
it.
So if anybody's here forfootball, see if the Sacristy
(26:00):
Museum is open so many treasures.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Do you have any advice to a pilgrim who's about
to embark on a pilgrimage, evenif it's a day trip to the
University of Notre Dame to goto the grotto and pray at the
basilica?
Do you have any advice tosomeone who's about to go?
Because you've been on theother side, you've been on that
side of receiving them.
What would be your advice tosomebody who's about to go on a
pilgrimage?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I would say don't have any expectation.
You know, just go, just be ablank slate and see what's there
, what, what touches you, whatdoesn't touch you.
Um, uh, don't be disappointedif nothing, if you don't feel
(26:43):
anything or nothing happens oryou're tired or whatever.
Because I think sometimes whenyou go on pilgrimage, you get
home and then all of a suddensomething sinks in, or you know,
the ding, ding, ding, ding,ding light bulb goes off.
So I would just just let theHoly Spirit move you through
(27:04):
there.
You know, yeah, sometimes Ithink if we prepare too much,
you're not open to whatever elseis going to come along.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's funny because my role at Verso
is preparing people for the tripand it's always that fine
balance between settingexpectations and not setting
expectations.
Right so preparing them for whatthey're going to see and
experience, but making sure theyremain kind of that open, going
to see and experience, butmaking sure they remain kind of
that open, that open receptaclethat is not disappointed or is
(27:38):
willing to be surprised too.
And I think when we make like,when we set expectations, we can
be disappointed becausesomething doesn't happen quite
the way we think it's going tohappen.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
But something else has happened and we miss it
Right, or you're comparingyourself to one of your fellow
pilgrims, yeah.
And they're super excited andall jazzed about something and
you're sitting there going well,I don't know.
You know it's okay.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, yeah, okay, but something else might strike you
differently.
Did you ever encounter apilgrim who maybe had some
misconceptions?
Did you ever encounter apilgrim who maybe had some
misconceptions or came to thisplace and maybe came with a
closed heart or came withmisconceptions about what they
were going to find reallydisappointing experience with
(28:32):
Catholicism or the.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Catholic Church, and they've kind of got a wall up
already and sometimes they'llmake a comment or they'll, you
know, say that you know theydon't agree with something, or I
(28:58):
don't know, just just kind ofbe obstinate about um, moving
through and hearing about things.
but then, um, we've seen peoplethat were in that, in that uh
spot, and then by the end of thetour they were, you could see
that something had happened.
Other people not, so it's Idon't know.
(29:23):
And then other people that arejust excited from the beginning
and even more faithful or joyfulat the end.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah, I would imagine it might be difficult,
especially for a non-Catholic orsomeone who's not religious, to
walk into such a gold place andhave that like oh, why'd you
spend all this money?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
One of the common threads, it seemed, with people
that were of other religions orno religion, was the concept of
Mary and the saints Sure thatwas hard for them, because she's
all over and the saints are allover that place.
So it was always with that typeof visitor.
(30:02):
It seemed like it was always anexplanation to be made that we
don't worship Mary, that youknow she's an inner intercessor
and, um, uh, that that wholeyeah thing.
But I think people leftunderstanding.
(30:23):
Yeah, what a great like.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
What a great mode of evangelization, what a great
tool of evangelization wheresomeone encounters catholicism
for the first time or encountersCatholicism in a new way in
this beautiful church and theguides are able to at least
maybe give them a newperspective or a different
perspective than what they'veheard.
Right, but pilgrimage asevangelization, I think, is
(30:47):
really really beautiful.
Yes, any other stories orthings you'd like to share?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
There were um, there were a few times when we had
like terminally, ill people come, and this was their bucket list
and you know, local make a wishprograms and um things like
that.
So I had one, especially that agentleman who had planned it,
(31:20):
planned it, planned it for along time.
It was a Make-A-Wish programand all of a sudden he took a
turn and he couldn't come.
We were all so disappointedbecause this is, you know, he
was so wanting to do this.
Well, he rallied and got tocome again.
So when he came back, weshowered him with gifts and it
(31:42):
was such a joy filled day andthat was really special.
But you know, there are sometimes that people come in, uh,
to the Basilica, and you thinkthat, um, you're going to give,
they're the pilgrim and you're,you're the one who's going to
(32:02):
give them an experience or thing.
But but they have stories tooand they will, you know, tell
you a little bit about theirfaith journey and so on and so
forth.
And you realize, that day youwere the pilgrim.
Wow, and that happened all thetime because we would share
(32:23):
experiences.
Although I was supposed tooversee the program and do all
the nuts and bolts type things,I ended up giving tours too.
So we would all share ourexperiences.
And, gosh, that happened a lotand it was just it gives me
chills now to think about itbecause we were receiving as
(32:44):
much as we were trying to give.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
It's that great reminder that we're all on a
pilgrimage and at certain pointsin our life we make physical
pilgrimages places.
But we're all on thispilgrimage of life and if we can
be open to other people'spilgrimages and walk with them
and learn from them, yes, andthat's a perfect example of that
.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I had a gentleman come in.
Well, he was a baby priest,even though he was only a priest
for about a week, but he was myage and his wife had passed
away and she had a long illnessand while she was going through
this journey they discussed, youknow um.
He wanted to be a priest.
So when she passed away he wentto the seminary.
(33:25):
He had grandkids and he came inand he was just this was his um
uh gift or nation gift tohimself?
I guess was to come here andexperience the Basilica and so
forth.
So just all sorts of uniqueexperiences, and I learned a lot
from him that day.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, I was going to ask if you had any famous
visitors, but actually the moreexciting stories are probably
the ordinary people rather thanthe famous people and, honestly,
we did have a lot of,especially on football days.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Somebody would come through, or politicians or
things like that, but they aresurrounded so much by guards and
security that we really didn'tget to see very much of them.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah, they were protected, or I didn't.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Maybe some other people.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Which is too bad, because you should have given
the tour, because they had a lotto learn, they should have
learned from you.
But yeah, it's actually usuallyprobably the ordinary people,
absolutely that are yes, andevery day was different.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
You never knew what was.
You never knew who was going towalk through that door.
Yeah, you never knew who wasgoing to walk through that door
in a day you know and what theywere going to bring to you or
what you were going to give tothem.
Yeah, it was just reallyexciting.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
For the school trips.
What were the kids like?
What do you think the kids'favorite parts were?
What did you all do so thatlike to engage kids in the
Basilica in history.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
The little preschool on campus was so cute, they
would come, and this was not myidea, this was the teacher's.
I opened the doors of thebasilica at 9 o'clock and, you
know, unlocked them and lookedoutside and all these kids are
(35:13):
laying on their back in thecircle drive of the Basilica
drawing the spires.
So then, then, eventually theywould come in and they, you know
, I went back to my desk andanswer my phone calls and stuff
and I came out.
They're laying on the flooragain in the Basilica on their
backs, but they're drawing theangels on the ceiling and you
know they.
They have their littlewalkthrough and the teachers
(35:35):
handled most of it, but one timethey would usually come in the
spring.
One spring I got this letter inthe mail and it was this
drawing and I'm so sorry.
I pulled the tulips when Ididn't notice they were gone.
I called the teacher.
(35:57):
I said he didn't need to dothat and he goes.
Well, we want to do it.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
He needed to do it.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
So I guess they pick some flowers on the way out.
But um sweet Uh, but they uh.
But then when you got intomiddle school and high school
they were very interested in thealtar, of course, is the main
altar.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
That's another podcast.
Yeah, they knew.
They either talked about orknew some some things about how
the liturgy went and what thiswas for, and so forth.
So they would have greatquestions.
(36:41):
I bet, yeah, I bet.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, well, and little sponges, yes, even the
middle schoolers, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Can you talk a little bit about the crypt?
Was the crypt ever on the tour,or?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
I think a lot of people don't even know the crypt
exists.
When we would take people downto the Bishop's Museum, that
would be part of the tour downthere we would walk out into the
, which is really the SacredHeart, parish.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Church down there.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
We would walk down there and show them Brown.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I'm trying to remember Orestes Brown, thank
you.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
His final resting place is down there, and explain
that it really is the oldestparish church in South Bend, wow
, and how it's different fromthe university church upstairs.
Yeah and so, yeah, we would,you know, we would take a circle
(37:48):
.
So much to see yes.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, okay.
Well, I've really appreciatedour conversation.
I've enjoyed it.
Is you have one more book torecommend?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
this is out of print, but this was the aspire of
faith.
The university of notre damesacred heart church, by thomas j
schlereth, I believe is how youpronounce his name
S-C-H-L-E-R-E-T-H.
But this was kind of our Bible,even though it was out of print
and I went online before I cameover here today.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Is it on eBay?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
You can still grab them.
But, boy, this is another gem.
Gem it has um the history allthe way from the log chapel wow,
up to probably the 1960s inhere.
Wow, so, um, this was beautifuluh, what I gave to each of our
(38:45):
guides to to mull over everytime that somebody signed up.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
So yes, yeah, so there's so much, I think also
just remembering that, for allthe beauty and the tombs and
everything that's there, itreally does remain an active
worship place and it's where thestudents.
I think it's so edifying to seethe students praying there, to
see the students going toconfession.
The life of the university washealthy when there were very
(39:14):
long lines of confession, packeddaily mass, and it's just.
it remains such a beautifultestament to the faith of the
student body, and that's reallywhat strikes me now, even more
than the beauty Sometimes when Iwalk in, is the beauty of that
faith that's lived out in thebasilica.
So it's really yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yes, the sacraments that are celebrated yes, and
it's really yeah, the sacramentsthat are celebrated, yes, and
it was a very special, specialplace to have spent six years.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
I loved it.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
So, well.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Thank you, sue Listeners.
We invite you to the SacredHeart Basilica at the University
of Notre Dame to, if youhaven't been up to the campus,
to come and visit to pray withus there and to share this
podcast episode with somebodywho might want to come or visit
to pray with us there.
And to share this podcastepisode with somebody who might
want to come, or just to hearthe other side of the pilgrimage
experience, as someone whoreceived pilgrims but then also
(40:04):
was a pilgrim herself when sheheard the pilgrim stories.
And call ahead and get a tour.
That's right.
Call ahead and get a tour or goonline, yes.
So thanks, listeners, listeners.
Thanks for listening and staytuned for a future season.
We are wrapping up this firstseason and our future season is
going to concentrate on thejubilee year, so details to
(40:24):
follow about that.
But thanks so much, sue thanksfor having me.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Thank you.
Welcome to In Via, the podcast where we're
navigating the pilgrimage oflife.
We are all in via on the wayand we are learning a lot as we
go.
I'm your host, joan Watson.
Join me as we listen to stories, discover travel tips and learn
more about our Catholic faith.
Along the way, we'll see thatif God seeks to meet us in
(00:21):
Jerusalem, rome or Santiago, healso wants to encounter you
right there in your car, on yourrun or in the middle of your
workday.
In this episode, we're turningthe tables a little bit.
We are not talking to a pilgrim, but to Sue Montalbano.
Now, sue's been on pilgrimageherself, but today our
(00:42):
conversation focuses on her timeat the University of Notre Dame
, working at the Basilica of theSacred Heart, not being a
pilgrim, but receiving pilgrims.
Well, thanks for joining us,sue.
I'm really excited for thisconversation.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
You're welcome.
Even if we were exchangingrecipes, I'd be here.
Well, maybe we could do that atthe end.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
That's the next episode.
So for people who I gave alittle intro to start the
episode, but could you tellpeople three sentences about
yourself?
I always that's kind of the waywe start a lot of our episodes
If you could only tell peoplethree sentences, what would you
say?
Speaker 2 (01:25):
I would say anybody who knows me knows that I am a
very blessed daughter of God.
I've been blessed to be a wife,a mother, now a grandmother.
And thirdly, I would leteveryone know that I have an
addiction to ice cream and I'vepassed it to the rest of my
family.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
So that about covers it.
That's why we're friends.
Yes, that's why we're friends.
Yes, that's why we're friends.
So we are chatting today abouta position you once held, and
I'm excited because we talk alot about pilgrimage, obviously,
on this podcast.
But we talk a lot to pilgrimswho go to a holy place, go to a
shrine and then talk about theirexperience, and I was very
(02:02):
excited that you agreed to dothis, because we're going to
kind of flip that on its head.
We're going to talk to youabout receiving pilgrims.
So could you tell us a littlebit about what you did at the
Basilica of the Sacred Hearthere at Notre Dame?
What was your role?
And then, maybe, what did thatentail?
What did that role entail forpeople who might not be familiar
with it?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Well, I was officially coordinator of tours
and hospitality at the Basilicaof the Sacred Heart.
I was not hired to give tours,but rather to have a bird's eye
view of everything that wasgoing on there.
There were at any given time afew more, a few less, but around
(02:48):
60 volunteer tour guides at theBasilica and I would schedule
the tours, schedule the guides,make sure that we had
accommodations for anybody thatneeded extra help.
I worked with the Chamber ofCommerce in South Bend and
(03:10):
different tour companies thatcome on a regular basis.
Field trips I was a formerteacher so that was one of my
favorite things was field trips.
We had preschoolers throughcollege and adults coming
through and I would you knowthere were housekeeping things
(03:34):
walking through the basilicamaking sure everything was in
place.
I would order the little holycards at the entranceway and
restock them, keep an eye oneverything, make sure it was
well taken care of, and then Iwould help out anybody else that
worked at the Basilica duringthe holidays and special events
(03:56):
that we had there.
So it was fun.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
I think it might surprise some people that I mean
they think of the University ofNotre Dame, they think of a
college, they think of research,they think of the football team
, and if you haven't been tocampus people might be surprised
that the Basilica would beworking with tour groups or
would be working with fieldtrips and so what like influx,
and I just think kind of ofSaturday mornings, right,
(04:21):
football fans wandering throughthe Basilica.
But to have organized tours,was that somebody?
People would approach theBasilica and say we're bringing
a group?
Would it be people justwandering in?
Like what for people who mightnot be familiar with the
Basilica?
What did that tour culture looklike?
Who was coming for tours?
Speaker 2 (04:40):
I guess we had people that would just walk in off the
street.
You know, there's that bigNotre Dame sign out on the
tollway.
And they would, just you know,unexpectedly just veer off and
come on over.
But we also had regular fieldtrips and things that were
scheduled a year in advance.
Sometimes they were, you know,weeks out, days out, it just it
(05:06):
was all over the place.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
So I think people I mean I was reading the stats
once for Indiana and I thinkNotre Dame's like the second
most visited tourist attractionin Indiana other than the
Speedway or something right yes,we would have hundreds of
thousands of people in and outand those are.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
You know we didn't have a scientific way to count
our visitors, but we were prettygood on football Saturdays.
We had counters and things likethat.
But so you know, any givenfootball weekend we could have
(05:46):
20,000 people through and we'reonly counting for a certain
amount of hours during the dayor certain, you know it's true.
During the week, so it's a lotof people.
Yeah, it's a lot of people.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
It's a lot of people.
What drew you to the positionat the Basilica?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Well, like I said, I was a former teacher and I liked
the idea of my husband wasworking at Notre Dame, so that
was kind of a go-to, I guess, tolook for a job.
Yeah, saw the job and in myadult life I had never had a job
(06:26):
outside of a classroom, so thatwas kind of a oh I can, you
know, I don't have to askanybody, um, to go to the
bathroom or to watch anybodywhile I'm gone, so that was kind
of fun.
But um, uh, I think that, uh,I'm a real people person, so I
thought that was um was going tobe good.
I think that all of a realpeople person, so I thought that
was going to be good.
(06:46):
I think that all of my skillsas a teacher lent themselves to
the organization there, yeah,and so I think it was a good fit
, yeah yeah, what did you likemost about being at the Basilica
?
Speaker 1 (07:01):
How long were you there?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
I was there for six years, okay, wow, about being at
the basilica.
How long were you there?
I was there for six years, okay, wow.
And we worked here.
You know our my job didn'twasn't seasonal or anything.
It went on going during breaksand yeah and all of that.
So, um I I started in februaryof 2016 to february of 2022 wow,
so um of 2022.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
Wow, so, um, uh, yeah , and what?
Sorry, I interrupted myselfwith a new question.
So what would?
What did you like most?
Speaker 2 (07:34):
about your time.
I liked, uh, the people, ofcourse, and you meet people from
all over the world.
Um, I liked our guides and wehad most of them were retirees.
We had some seminarians, we hadsome high school kids and also
college students, but theyweren't able to be consistent
(07:55):
because of their schedules andtheir life going on.
But our retirees were really,really interesting and I think
when I started there, uh, ourkids were not married, I didn't
have, you know.
So I learned a lot from them.
They were just that muchfurther along than me, yeah and
(08:17):
um, and I still have, uh,friends excuse me, friends that
are.
You know that I still socializewith from meeting them at the
Basilica.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
I love that yeah, you learned how to be a good
grandma through the Navy GrandmaTips.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
I did, because they would take off and go visit and
you know, they had their livesand this was just another way of
giving back and, of course,they enjoyed it.
Yeah, they were so passionateabout it, yeah, so yeah, what
were some of the challenges?
um, again it was, the challengeswere being able to be, uh,
(09:00):
flexible back and forth because,um, there are things that come
up in any church, and especiallythe basilica, where you have to
cancel on a dime.
You have to explain to peoplewhy.
You know the disappointmentthat they're not able to come
because of a funeral or aspecial event that's happening.
Football was always a challenge, because you have the
(09:24):
skateboards that want to comethrough the basilica.
Yes, and explaining, trying toexplain to people that this is a
place of worship and peoplethat really are not familiar
with Catholicism Sure, and tomake in spite of all that, to
make everybody feel welcome.
(09:45):
The parking Parking was alwaysan issue for all of our tours.
I would have to hightail it toanother part of campus to help
an RV turn around or help someseniors off of a bus and show
them you know which way we'regoing to go.
So just the logistics.
Speaker 1 (10:07):
I think, think of every day, yeah, the things that
the people who are visitingdon't see.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
No, you hope they don't right, Because that means
it's going smoothly.
Yes, and you know juggling ourprogram with organ practice and
special tours by professors thatwe're not involved in Right
(10:31):
Coming through the facility andthings like that, and that's a
perfect example of things like.
Speaker 1 (10:35):
I was just in Fatima this summer.
I didn't think about thosethings.
You don't think about thelogistics of running an enormous
shrine that has tens ofthousands of people.
You're just there as a pilgrimand you're enjoying it, but the
logistics of making everythingrun smoothly is just one of
those behind the scenes.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
You know, before I worked there I would show up at
church and think that this alljust magically happens, and now
I know it doesn't.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
You see the sacristan moving and the signs moving yes
, Was it difficult you spokeabout the skateboarders Was it
difficult for the Basilica tojust not be another tourist
attraction on the campus?
Speaker 2 (11:39):
I don't know if it was difficult for the Basilica,
but difficult to explainsometimes, yes, to people that
didn't have a background inCatholicism or in any religion
you know, maybe they werewithout a religion to understand
(12:01):
that this isn't a museumalthough there are great works
of art in there as we all know,but we aren't really docents, we
were tour guides, but we triedto think of it as a ministry and
(12:22):
have a sense of reverence allthe time when we were walking
through and tried to relay that,usually at the beginning of a
tour, if we could usually at thebeginning of a tour, if we
could and to answer, not to doit, not to do a tour rotely,
because you don't know whatpeople are coming in with um and
their background, although youusually find out or ask
(12:45):
questions, um, during that time.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, yeah, we talked before, before the episode, we
chatted and you mentioned youreally stressed the pilgrimage
aspect with the guides, thatthat was something that you
wanted.
They weren't docents and youdidn't want it just to be
another guided tour.
And so do you think it wasmostly in that showing of
reverence as you were walkingthrough, showing them that they
(13:11):
could mirror that?
So if I'm seeing my guidegenuflect, I know that
something's happening right.
I know that there's this is adifferent atmosphere or a lower
voice or the ways that you helpthe guides show that this is a
pilgrimage site and not just atour, that they weren't just
docents.
Can you speak a little bit moreabout that?
Was that the idea of justapproaching this with reverence
(13:34):
and that it's not a museum, andhow did you help your guides
kind of do that with theirgroups?
Speaker 2 (13:39):
one thing that, when I started, was I wanted to make
sure that, um, if you know thestory of the basilica and really
of notre dame, uh, you knowthat it's a very french story.
You know we're all about thefighting irish right, but this
is a very french story so youknow, we're all about the
fighting Irish right, but thisis a very French story so we all
had to get on the same page.
When I started, we did not havea script for any tour.
(14:04):
We also gave you know we givetours of the Basilica.
I don't know how Katie Pelzeris running things over there now
and she does a beautiful job.
I don't know how Katie Pelzeris running things over there now
and she does a beautiful job.
I don't know how they'rehandling but the log chapel
there is a bishop's museumdownstairs in the basilica and
(14:24):
also a museum off of thesacristy where my desk was back
then.
So I developed scripts for eachone of those to keep us all on
the same page.
But, having said that,everybody has their special part
of the basilica that they liketo concentrate on, and I think
(14:45):
that's fine and you would kindof give the information or
answer questions.
But if you wanted to spend moretime on the windows or the
altar, whatever, I think thatwas that was perfectly fine, so
um uh, I think that, um, thatwas key in keeping it.
(15:05):
Um, uh, not coming in thinkingit was going to be a football
tour yeah, that it was going tobe more of a sacred um story,
yes, of the development and thehow, how Notre Dame progressed
throughout the years and and howum faith was such a huge.
You know just everything, yeahas to how that happened, so that
(15:30):
that helped yeah, we're a.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
We're a catholic university before we're a
football program.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
And I think people think about yeah, like you said,
the Fighting Irish.
People don't even realize.
And then they don't realizeit's Notre Dame du Lac and it's
Our Lady coming from.
And there's so many Frenchaspects in the Basilica, like
Our Lady of Lourdes, not justthe grotto, but the beautiful.
My favorite painting in theBasilica is the painting of Our
Lady of Lords, the stained glasswindow of Our Lady of Lords,
(15:57):
and so there's so many beautiful.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
French touches, and all of that was going on in real
time during, you know, duringNotre Dame's development in
those years.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
So, they were very interested in the story of all
the Holy Cross priests andeverybody that was here was very
interested in all of that Iheard and now you can correct me
if I'm wrong on this I heardthat the stained glass window of
our lady of lords is one of thefirst depictions of our lady of
lords in the united states.
Because it was so early on,yeah, in the story.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
I don't know that, but that's a good.
Speaker 1 (16:30):
I've never heard that , but that makes sense because
we don't when we put thetimeline together.
This wasn't ancient history, itwas all in real time.
Our Lady of Lords, our Lady,had appeared at Lords, father
Sorin had been to Lords and it'sthis beautiful French devotion
yes.
So I love.
That idea of stressing theFrench part helps us see that
this isn't just the fightingIrish Right, but that this is a
(16:50):
Catholicolic university um inlove with our lady the lady
chapel and and the log chapelfor people who don't.
People should look it up.
But the log chapel is thechapel of father soren, correct
that it's one of the ancient notancient but oldest buildings on
campus?
Because it's a replica, or isit the real?
Speaker 2 (17:07):
thing.
It is a replicate.
The original did burn.
Father baden was the one whowas there first, and so now the
oldest building is the oldcollege seminary.
And that's where they movedfrom the log chapel over to
there, because it got reallycold and they were so much more
(17:28):
comfortable in that brickbuilding right.
But now that is the oldest butthe.
But they did bring a um, um, uhartist.
I guess he would have been, buthe was uh to hone the boards um
the way they would have beenback then.
He was an ex-slave fromkentucky that they brought over
(17:48):
here to uh to rebuild it, so hewould know the art behind it.
So we think it looks very muchlike it did back then.
That's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
Yeah, how would one go about?
Do you get a tour of the logchapel?
Can you have a tour of the logchapel, do you?
Speaker 2 (18:03):
contact the basilica.
You can contact the basilicaand you can.
Now, before I left, we wereable to schedule online, so you
don't even have to call.
You could schedule online andI'm sure Katie would work with
anybody who wanted to come,that's kind of one of those
(18:23):
hidden treasures.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
I feel like you know, people don't necessarily know
about it and it's a littlehidden treasure on campus.
Do you think anyone ever cameto the Basilica just because
they stumbled upon it or theythought they were a tourist and
they ended up a pilgrim?
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Every day, they ended up touched.
Speaker 1 (18:41):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yes, every day, and nobody realized that.
Well, first of all, the eyecandy in there is wonderful
wonderful, I mean even if you'renot into the whole um religious
aspect of of it being abasilica and so forth, just the
the grandiose uh um spectaclethat you see when you walk in
(19:05):
there, which is all to the gloryof god.
Um, people wonder sometimeswell, why does it have to be so
elaborate or so?
Well, it's to the glory of God,and you know they did a lot.
We are so lucky we have thatbasilica in the state it is now
because, of course, during the60s, 1960s, of course they were
(19:26):
trying to tone down everythingand be minimalistic and it
didn't happen here, praise.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
God.
So gosh, they didn't whitewashthose walls, which we're
grateful for.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
No, and so people are drawn in initially because of
that.
But if you start talking to oneof our people that volunteer
there, you'll quickly find outthat there's so much more and
some people just want to.
You know they're 10 minutes andthey're getting the highlights
(19:58):
and we try to do you know whatthey're interested in Other
people.
They could stay three or fourhours.
They want every little bit thatthere is to know which is
really fun.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
Yeah, I love that.
What's one thing most peopledon't know about?
The Basilica of the SacredHeart.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
Well, there's one thing that people don't know is
that the stained glass windows,which I think are probably one
of the biggest treasures at theBasilica, were, we believe at
(20:39):
Notre Dame that it's one of thelargest collection of stained
glass from that time period, dueto the destruction in World War
I and II Wow.
So there's a company that takescare of many things in the
basilica, but one of the thingsis the stained glass windows and
(21:00):
that's Conrad Schmidt up inMilwaukee.
So you'll see every now andthen the scaffolding go up and
they take such good care of thewindows.
But you know, of course stainedglass windows are for
evangelization, right, they werea way to move God's message
because people weren't readingand things were in different
(21:20):
languages.
So it's such a treasure.
And to think that they werefired and made in France and
then, 1860s or so, they had tobe put on a boat, maybe a train,
maybe a wagon, who knows to gethere to Notre Dame.
(21:41):
They didn't get stolen, theydidn't get broken and we have
them today.
So that's just a such abeautiful story.
And I even brought a book toreference one of our tour guides
, nancy Cavadini and I'm sorry,nancy was not a tour guide, but
(22:02):
Cecilia Cunningham was, and theydid a book a few years back.
It's called Stories in Lightand gosh.
It's just if you're interestedin the Basilica windows, all of
them are pictured and they aredone in order as you walk in the
church so you can read aboutall of them.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yes, we will put that in the show notes so that
people can find it.
I love the windows because ofall the saints.
They depict the saints and thenthey have a little story from
the saints' life, and when I'min the long line of confession
that's always present beforeMass at the Basilica, I love
looking up at the windows andtrying to decipher what saint is
that and what story is thatdepicting.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Another thing that I love that people, just a fun
fact is the beautiful Pieta byIvan Mestrovic in the Basilica.
That is his original, wow.
And if you go to the Vatican,you'll see one that's just a
(23:07):
tabletop size in a differentcolor, because ours is Carrara
marble.
I think that I've seen it there, I think the one that I saw, I
think it was black and I'm notsure what it was made out of.
But there's a sign at theVatican that says the original
is in Notre Dame, indiana.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I love it.
I love it.
And that's in one of the sidechapels.
The side chapels are full oftreasures.
Oh my gosh, Cardinal O'Hara'stomb is there.
The relics, the reliccollection of the Basilica is
stunning.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Like you could get lost in that little chapel and
they just refurbish that rightand it's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (23:42):
It was closed for a while and I was worried and I
was like what's happening at therelic chapel and it's worth?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
it's just worth getting lost in all the saints
that are there and the very backof the basilica there's a lady
chapel and that was all brickedup.
And then for Father Soren's50th ordination anniversary that
was all added as a gift to himour lady chapel, because he had
such a devotion to our Blessed.
(24:08):
Mother, and that's probably oneof my favorite things.
Speaker 1 (24:11):
Yeah, I love that that little back chapel.
Yes, and it's where thefootball team celebrates Mass on
.
Saturdays to bring out thefootball team again.
Speaker 2 (24:17):
Yes, and they have marriages back there.
It's really beautiful.
Thanks, yeah, it's reallybeautiful, it's really nice.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
So you may have just told us, but what would you say
is your favorite part of the?
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Basilica.
I love our Blessed Mother, so Ihave to say that's my favorite.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
Yes, going back there to see her.
It is really beautiful.
This wasn't in our prep, so I'mputting you on the spot, but
could you speak a little bitabout the museum as well?
Yes, you mentioned the museumand the sacristy where your
office was.
Could you speak a little bitabout what is there?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
A lot of things that are historically important to
the history of Notre Dame.
Not all of them, just asampling there's so many more
things over in the archives, inthe um in the library, but um uh
, it's a wide variety ofchalices, um uh, items that were
used um uh early on uh, robesand rings, gifts from the
(25:20):
Studebaker family to Notre.
Dame.
I'm trying to think here Someof the things from Father
Soren's travels.
On the average he went back toduring his time at Notre Dame he
made one trip back to Europe ayear.
Oh, wow, every year on theaverage.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
So he came back with some wonderful things, I bet.
So there are beautiful thingsback there.
So during my time there wetried to have it open on
Football Saturday so a lot ofpeople could come back and view
it.
So if anybody's here forfootball, see if the Sacristy
(26:00):
Museum is open so many treasures.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Do you have any advice to a pilgrim who's about
to embark on a pilgrimage, evenif it's a day trip to the
University of Notre Dame to goto the grotto and pray at the
basilica?
Do you have any advice tosomeone who's about to go?
Because you've been on theother side, you've been on that
side of receiving them.
What would be your advice tosomebody who's about to go on a
pilgrimage?
Speaker 2 (26:23):
I would say don't have any expectation.
You know, just go, just be ablank slate and see what's there
, what, what touches you, whatdoesn't touch you.
Um, uh, don't be disappointedif nothing, if you don't feel
(26:43):
anything or nothing happens oryou're tired or whatever.
Because I think sometimes whenyou go on pilgrimage, you get
home and then all of a suddensomething sinks in, or you know,
the ding, ding, ding, ding,ding light bulb goes off.
So I would just just let theHoly Spirit move you through
(27:04):
there.
You know, yeah, sometimes Ithink if we prepare too much,
you're not open to whatever elseis going to come along.
Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, yeah, it's funny because my role at Verso
is preparing people for the tripand it's always that fine
balance between settingexpectations and not setting
expectations.
Right so preparing them for whatthey're going to see and
experience, but making sure theyremain kind of that open, going
to see and experience, butmaking sure they remain kind of
that open, that open receptaclethat is not disappointed or is
(27:38):
willing to be surprised too.
And I think when we make like,when we set expectations, we can
be disappointed becausesomething doesn't happen quite
the way we think it's going tohappen.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
But something else has happened and we miss it
Right, or you're comparingyourself to one of your fellow
pilgrims, yeah.
And they're super excited andall jazzed about something and
you're sitting there going well,I don't know.
You know it's okay.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
Yeah, yeah, okay, but something else might strike you
differently.
Did you ever encounter apilgrim who maybe had some
misconceptions?
Did you ever encounter apilgrim who maybe had some
misconceptions or came to thisplace and maybe came with a
closed heart or came withmisconceptions about what they
were going to find reallydisappointing experience with
(28:32):
Catholicism or the.
Speaker 2 (28:33):
Catholic Church, and they've kind of got a wall up
already and sometimes they'llmake a comment or they'll, you
know, say that you know theydon't agree with something, or I
(28:58):
don't know, just just kind ofbe obstinate about um, moving
through and hearing about things.
but then, um, we've seen peoplethat were in that, in that uh
spot, and then by the end of thetour they were, you could see
that something had happened.
Other people not, so it's Idon't know.
(29:23):
And then other people that arejust excited from the beginning
and even more faithful or joyfulat the end.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
Yeah, I would imagine it might be difficult,
especially for a non-Catholic orsomeone who's not religious, to
walk into such a gold place andhave that like oh, why'd you
spend all this money?
Speaker 2 (29:42):
One of the common threads, it seemed, with people
that were of other religions orno religion, was the concept of
Mary and the saints Sure thatwas hard for them, because she's
all over and the saints are allover that place.
So it was always with that typeof visitor.
(30:02):
It seemed like it was always anexplanation to be made that we
don't worship Mary, that youknow she's an inner intercessor
and, um, uh, that that wholeyeah thing.
But I think people leftunderstanding.
(30:23):
Yeah, what a great like.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
What a great mode of evangelization, what a great
tool of evangelization wheresomeone encounters catholicism
for the first time or encountersCatholicism in a new way in
this beautiful church and theguides are able to at least
maybe give them a newperspective or a different
perspective than what they'veheard.
Right, but pilgrimage asevangelization, I think, is
(30:47):
really really beautiful.
Yes, any other stories orthings you'd like to share?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
There were um, there were a few times when we had
like terminally, ill people come, and this was their bucket list
and you know, local make a wishprograms and um things like
that.
So I had one, especially that agentleman who had planned it,
(31:20):
planned it, planned it for along time.
It was a Make-A-Wish programand all of a sudden he took a
turn and he couldn't come.
We were all so disappointedbecause this is, you know, he
was so wanting to do this.
Well, he rallied and got tocome again.
So when he came back, weshowered him with gifts and it
(31:42):
was such a joy filled day andthat was really special.
But you know, there are sometimes that people come in, uh,
to the Basilica, and you thinkthat, um, you're going to give,
they're the pilgrim and you're,you're the one who's going to
(32:02):
give them an experience or thing.
But but they have stories tooand they will, you know, tell
you a little bit about theirfaith journey and so on and so
forth.
And you realize, that day youwere the pilgrim.
Wow, and that happened all thetime because we would share
(32:23):
experiences.
Although I was supposed tooversee the program and do all
the nuts and bolts type things,I ended up giving tours too.
So we would all share ourexperiences.
And, gosh, that happened a lotand it was just it gives me
chills now to think about itbecause we were receiving as
(32:44):
much as we were trying to give.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
It's that great reminder that we're all on a
pilgrimage and at certain pointsin our life we make physical
pilgrimages places.
But we're all on thispilgrimage of life and if we can
be open to other people'spilgrimages and walk with them
and learn from them, yes, andthat's a perfect example of that
.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I had a gentleman come in.
Well, he was a baby priest,even though he was only a priest
for about a week, but he was myage and his wife had passed
away and she had a long illnessand while she was going through
this journey they discussed, youknow um.
He wanted to be a priest.
So when she passed away he wentto the seminary.
(33:25):
He had grandkids and he came inand he was just this was his um
uh gift or nation gift tohimself?
I guess was to come here andexperience the Basilica and so
forth.
So just all sorts of uniqueexperiences, and I learned a lot
from him that day.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah, I was going to ask if you had any famous
visitors, but actually the moreexciting stories are probably
the ordinary people rather thanthe famous people and, honestly,
we did have a lot of,especially on football days.
Speaker 2 (33:58):
Somebody would come through, or politicians or
things like that, but they aresurrounded so much by guards and
security that we really didn'tget to see very much of them.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Yeah, they were protected, or I didn't.
Speaker 2 (34:14):
Maybe some other people.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
Which is too bad, because you should have given
the tour, because they had a lotto learn, they should have
learned from you.
But yeah, it's actually usuallyprobably the ordinary people,
absolutely that are yes, andevery day was different.
Speaker 2 (34:29):
You never knew what was.
You never knew who was going towalk through that door.
Yeah, you never knew who wasgoing to walk through that door
in a day you know and what theywere going to bring to you or
what you were going to give tothem.
Yeah, it was just reallyexciting.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
For the school trips.
What were the kids like?
What do you think the kids'favorite parts were?
What did you all do so thatlike to engage kids in the
Basilica in history.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
The little preschool on campus was so cute, they
would come, and this was not myidea, this was the teacher's.
I opened the doors of thebasilica at 9 o'clock and, you
know, unlocked them and lookedoutside and all these kids are
(35:13):
laying on their back in thecircle drive of the Basilica
drawing the spires.
So then, then, eventually theywould come in and they, you know
, I went back to my desk andanswer my phone calls and stuff
and I came out.
They're laying on the flooragain in the Basilica on their
backs, but they're drawing theangels on the ceiling and you
know they.
They have their littlewalkthrough and the teachers
(35:35):
handled most of it, but one timethey would usually come in the
spring.
One spring I got this letter inthe mail and it was this
drawing and I'm so sorry.
I pulled the tulips when Ididn't notice they were gone.
I called the teacher.
(35:57):
I said he didn't need to dothat and he goes.
Well, we want to do it.
Speaker 1 (36:01):
He needed to do it.
Speaker 2 (36:04):
So I guess they pick some flowers on the way out.
But um sweet Uh, but they uh.
But then when you got intomiddle school and high school
they were very interested in thealtar, of course, is the main
altar.
Speaker 1 (36:17):
Yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
That's another podcast.
Yeah, they knew.
They either talked about orknew some some things about how
the liturgy went and what thiswas for, and so forth.
So they would have greatquestions.
(36:41):
I bet, yeah, I bet.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Yeah, well, and little sponges, yes, even the
middle schoolers, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:47):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
Can you talk a little bit about the crypt?
Was the crypt ever on the tour,or?
Speaker 2 (36:55):
I think a lot of people don't even know the crypt
exists.
When we would take people downto the Bishop's Museum, that
would be part of the tour downthere we would walk out into the
, which is really the SacredHeart, parish.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
Church down there.
Speaker 2 (37:18):
We would walk down there and show them Brown.
Speaker 1 (37:20):
I'm trying to remember Orestes Brown, thank
you.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
His final resting place is down there, and explain
that it really is the oldestparish church in South Bend, wow
, and how it's different fromthe university church upstairs.
Yeah and so, yeah, we would,you know, we would take a circle
(37:48):
.
So much to see yes.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, okay.
Well, I've really appreciatedour conversation.
I've enjoyed it.
Is you have one more book torecommend?
Speaker 2 (37:59):
this is out of print, but this was the aspire of
faith.
The university of notre damesacred heart church, by thomas j
schlereth, I believe is how youpronounce his name
S-C-H-L-E-R-E-T-H.
But this was kind of our Bible,even though it was out of print
and I went online before I cameover here today.
Speaker 1 (38:23):
Is it on eBay?
Speaker 2 (38:25):
You can still grab them.
But, boy, this is another gem.
Gem it has um the history allthe way from the log chapel wow,
up to probably the 1960s inhere.
Wow, so, um, this was beautifuluh, what I gave to each of our
(38:45):
guides to to mull over everytime that somebody signed up.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
So yes, yeah, so there's so much, I think also
just remembering that, for allthe beauty and the tombs and
everything that's there, itreally does remain an active
worship place and it's where thestudents.
I think it's so edifying to seethe students praying there, to
see the students going toconfession.
The life of the university washealthy when there were very
(39:14):
long lines of confession, packeddaily mass, and it's just.
it remains such a beautifultestament to the faith of the
student body, and that's reallywhat strikes me now, even more
than the beauty Sometimes when Iwalk in, is the beauty of that
faith that's lived out in thebasilica.
So it's really yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
Yes, the sacraments that are celebrated yes, and
it's really yeah, the sacramentsthat are celebrated, yes, and
it was a very special, specialplace to have spent six years.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
I loved it.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
So, well.
Speaker 1 (39:41):
Thank you, sue Listeners.
We invite you to the SacredHeart Basilica at the University
of Notre Dame to, if youhaven't been up to the campus,
to come and visit to pray withus there and to share this
podcast episode with somebodywho might want to come or visit
to pray with us there.
And to share this podcastepisode with somebody who might
want to come, or just to hearthe other side of the pilgrimage
experience, as someone whoreceived pilgrims but then also
(40:04):
was a pilgrim herself when sheheard the pilgrim stories.
And call ahead and get a tour.
That's right.
Call ahead and get a tour or goonline, yes.
So thanks, listeners, listeners.
Thanks for listening and staytuned for a future season.
We are wrapping up this firstseason and our future season is
going to concentrate on thejubilee year, so details to
(40:24):
follow about that.
But thanks so much, sue thanksfor having me.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
Thank you.
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