December 6, 2023 • 36 mins
Have you ever felt the weight of underrepresentation or wondered how to navigate the workplace with a disability? Join us as we bring the conversation to the forefront with the employment team at Disability Rights Arkansas. Wednesday, Molly, and Jen discuss their personal journeys navigating employment with a disability. They pull back the curtain on the obstacles faced and their battles for representation.
As we delve deeper, we shift the spotlight to self-advocacy and building soft skills, crucial elements for workplace success. Our guests impart wisdom on the importance of accommodations and how to advocate for them. They also share their insights on fostering an inclusive workspace and the resources that can bolster individuals with disabilities to thrive in their careers. Tune in for an enlightening discussion that serves as a roadmap for individuals with disabilities navigating the workplace, filled with recommendations, resources, and the power of persistence.
Contact DRA
- Subscribe to our newsletter
- Stay connected
- Show your support
- Email us at info@disabilityrightsar.org
Thanks for listening! Make sure to rate & review!
Become a supporter of the show!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Lani Jennings-Hall (00:12):
Hi and welcome back for season two of
Including You (00:14):
A Disability Rights Arkansas Podcast.
I'm your host, LaniJennings-Hall, here to bring
information to people withdisabilities on how to navigate
your rights things that help youwith your everyday life and how
to navigate the complex systemsof how to get the support you
need.
Everyone has the right to knowtheir rights everyone, including
you.
To kick this season off, we'vebrought back three powerhouse
(00:36):
speakers who are now all on theemployment team together here at
DRA.
If you haven't heard theirepisodes on traveling or dating,
make sure to check out seasonone.
Today we're going to discussblasting through public
perception in the world ofemployment.
Jen, Mollie, and Wednesday,thank you again for joining me
and our listeners here onIncluding you.
Okay, guys, we are back withthree members of DRA.
(01:12):
We've got the employment teamwith us, so we are, of course,
talking employment.
Let's start off with ourlisteners that may not have been
with us on season one.
If you, ladies, want to tell usa little bit about yourself,We
nsday, I'm going to kick it offwith you.
Wensday Kraemer (01:26):
Hey everyone.
Thank you again for having meon the podcast.
My name is Wensday.
I was not born on a Wednesday,like everyone thinks.
My name comes from the Addamsfamily.
I am on the employment team.
I am an advocate here atDisability Rights Arkansas.
A little bit about myself I wasactually born with a disability,
as born with Spina Bifida.
(01:46):
Bifida o growing up with adisability definitely had
differences and barriers.
I always do growing up that Iwas going to work and go to
college and all of the things.
But I remember specifically inmy teen years being like is it
really possible?
How is this going to look forme?
(02:07):
Because I didn't seerepresentation.
I didn't see people that lookedlike me working in various
fields.
I did go to college.
I got my two undergrad degreesin sociology and criminology and
then I got my Master's incounseling.
By the end of my Master's, Iknew that working with people
(02:30):
who have disabilities andassisting and being at the table
making decisions for peoplewith disabilities was something
that I wanted to do because,again, I saw that lack of
representation and that lack ofthoughts and ideas going into
the table when things are beingdecided.
I didn't see people withdisabilities there at the table
(02:53):
and, yeah, that's why I'm here.
I love what I do.
I think again, representationis so important and I know I
wish I saw more of me when I wasworking and navigating
employment.
Lani Jennings-Hall (03:07):
Thank you Wensday.
One thing you talked about isyou really didn't see that
representation at the table.
Mollie, you had a similar-ishthing with your original
employment.
You want to introduce yourselfas well?
Mollie Hernandez (03:21):
Sure, hi everyone.
My name is Mollie Hernandez andI'm also an advocate here at
Disability Rights on theEmployment Team.
And yes, so I have a disability.
I have a degenerative retinaldisease that resulted in
blindness during adulthood.
So it was one of those thingsthat I grew up without a
disability until lateadolescence started noticing
(03:41):
some changes in my vision.
By 19, when I was in college, Iwas diagnosed with a
degenerative retinal condition,but we really didn't know what
that would entail.
My vision impairment was veryearly stage at that point, so I
just thought it was somethingthat I needed to deal with on my
own and really didn't know whatwould ultimately happen with my
vision.
(04:01):
But long story short, I did,during my 20s, just begin losing
significant amounts of myvisual field and visual acuity
until ultimately, now I'm blind.
During my 20s I did finishcollege and then I started a
career as a teacher.
All of these things were thingsI was just accommodating myself
as I lost my vision until Ijust got to the point that it
(04:24):
was too much to accommodate onmy own and I had not seen other
people who were blind teaching.
So I thought what you do is yougo home.
Once you have a disability, youdon't work anymore, you just go
home.
I was not aware of all theresources out there to assist.
The representation just wasn'tthere.
People mind we're in ruralArkansas.
(04:45):
There are a lot of barriersthat we have transportation,
different things that do permitpeople with disabilities from
being in the workplace.
But, yeah, what I saw as myselfa blind person it was
antiquated, it was Mary fromLittle House on the Prairie.
Those were the people I hadseen as blind individuals in the
media.
I didn't see a blind womangoing to work, going to teach.
(05:08):
I thought that's what you do,you just go home and you're no
longer out in public, out in thecommunity.
And that's a really sad thingin retrospect because I was
teaching, I was working withyoung children that maybe they
had disabilities or maybe theywould grow up and acquire a
disability, and I could havebeen such powerful
representation there within theschool system if I had been
(05:29):
aware that there were resourcesavailable to keep me teaching
and to show that, yeah, you havea disability and you can live a
normal life.
I'm hoping I'm doing that nowand that representation that I
wish I had seen back 20, 25years ago.
Yeah, that's why I'm here andthat's why I do what I do,
because I didn't find out aboutthe resources until it was too
(05:51):
late.
Navigating them is not alwayseasy and you're not always
successful.
You're going to have stumblingblocks because spoiler alert
disability is hard.
These are things that we'retrying to navigate and there's
no playbook.
You're running it in real timeand you're just trying to figure
things out as you go.
So I'm glad that I've got thepersonal experience that I can
share with people.
(06:12):
But I also have theprofessional expertise.
I do have a master's degree inrehabilitation counseling so I
know that side of stuff.
I work daily with vocationalrehabilitation counselors and
administrators, as well asconsumers.
So it's a nice blending of mypersonal experience and
professional knowledge that Ihope I can keep others from
(06:33):
experiencing what I did andgiving up far too quickly on
that dream of employment.
Lani Jennings-Hall (06:38):
Thank you, Mollie.
And then, rounding off theemployment team, we have Jen.
Jen, can you tell us a littlebit about yourself as well?
Jen Goodwin (06:45):
Sure.
So again, thanks for having us.
So with mine, like Mollie, Ihave spinal cord injury.
That happened when I was 25.
So prior to that I was workingin outside cells as a drug rep,
living a fast-paced life and inand out of doctors' offices
constantly every single day anddinners at night and long hours
(07:06):
and just an intense career atthat point.
And then got the boat with thewrong person and ended up with a
spinal cord injury, and so atthat point I became quadriplegic
, and so life changeddrastically in an instant and
one night for me.
So it was different in thatregard.
Then, immediately, I thought I'mjust going to regain everything
(07:28):
that I lost and I'll be back tomy career, all of those things
that I didn't understand realitywith a spinal cord injury at
that point in my injury.
So I went on and did all therehab that I could possibly do
for five years.
That was my focus, and I justreally focused on learning to
walk.
I thought that was what Ineeded to do to be made whole
(07:50):
and complete again, and sofinally I decided that I could
either learn to walk or I couldlearn to live, and so I decided
that I was going to move myfocus to learning to live, and
learning to live with disabilityand what that was going to look
like.
So I came back to Arkansas andbuilt an accessible home and got
to where I got comfortable inmy day to day activities, that
(08:12):
sort of thing.
And then, honestly, I got boredand was like, okay, I'm in my
twenties and I'm quote unquoteretired and this doesn't feel
right to me.
And so I was ready forsomething different, and for
mine I was in a little differentsituation and that I had
long-term disability that Ididn't want to lose, and I knew
that I would lose that as soonas I went back to work.
And so I wanted to trysomething in the interim before
(08:36):
I went straight back to work,because I wanted to make sure
that it was going to besomething that I could be
successful at before I gave upthat long-term disability policy
.
So I decided to go to lawschool and took the LSAT and did
well enough on it, that schoolwas covered and decided this is
going to be my next step.
And so I went to law school andabsolutely loved it, like I
loved being back out with peopleagain and having something that
(08:59):
I had to get up and go to andsomething that was a challenge
for me again, and so I realizedthat there were a lot of things
that I hadn't considered beforethat were still accessible for
me, and so went to law school,finished that and then got my
first job as an attorney in themedical legal partnership at
Children's Hospital, and it wasfantastic.
I got to work with other clientswho had disabilities and all
(09:22):
sorts of different faces oftheir life and kids with
disabilities, so I felt like Igot to give back to them and
help them just navigate whatlife was going to look like.
And then now I've moved over todisability rights and I
absolutely love it here becausewe get to work with people with
all different kinds ofdisabilities in all stages of
life and especially on peoplewho are looking to get back to
work, because I do a personalexperience with what that looks
(09:44):
like and what that can feel likeand just helping to navigate
that system.
Mollie Hernandez (09:48):
Lani, if I can jump in for just a minute and
kind of dovetail into what Jenwas saying.
Jen and I, both of ourdisabilities happened in
adulthood and we knew we wantedto work.
We ultimately had that goal.
But there is a time that isnecessary for building soft
skills.
Well, in my case, I couldn'tvery well go out to work if I
(10:09):
couldn't safely navigate my homeor my community.
So, going back to work, it's amulti step, multi phase process.
So don't think that everyone islooking at you like, ok, go to
work, it's time and you're notready, especially with acquired
disability.
There's also just a time foremotional healing and coming to
terms with who you are, thereinventing of you, and there's
(10:32):
no shame in taking that timebefore getting back to work.
We promote work and wanteveryone to work and there are
so many benefits and I'm surewe'll get into that later.
Just the mental health aspect,and Jen talked about that
engagement of being in lawschool and using her mind in a
different capacity that itwasn't all focused on the injury
and come back.
But you need that time and youneed that space and there's no
(10:55):
shame in taking it and there areservices with educational
rehabilitation that allow youthat time to focus on the soft
skills that are critical inorder to be successful in
returning to work.
Maybe you're needing to useadaptive software, like in my
case.
I couldn't even type my name ona computer after some time
because I didn't have thetraining with screen readers on
(11:18):
the software.
You can't go back to schoolunless you can use a computer.
So there's so many very simplesteps that people take for
granted that you have to rebuildin order to reenter the
workforce, and it takes time.
It's not always a quick fix andallow yourself that space and
that grace if you're dealingwith new disability.
Wensday Kraemer (11:37):
I also would like to jump in whether you're
born with a the disability, orit's acquired.
I know Molly, which is likemental health.
It's okay to be frustrated somedays, I know, at least myself.
I don't know Mollie and Jen, Iagree or not, but I get
frustrated some days, Like whyis this task a bit more
difficult?
Et cetera, et cetera, and thewhole things are positive for me
(11:58):
in my life right now.
But it's okay to get frustratedat times and be like this isn't
the most fun thing ever, orthat I have to ask for XYZ
because I can't do XYZ.
So it's okay to be frustrated.
It's not always all positive,happy emotions all the time, but
employment is worth it.
Not being in poverty it's worthit.
(12:20):
Having choices is worth it.
Lani Jennings-Hall (12:22):
Thank Mollie , Wensday.
That is spot on and leads intoa really good conversation, I
feel like, because, as ourlisteners can hear, we have a
wide, diverse, live experiencedteam for our employment team
here at Disability RightsArkansas.
They have all the knowledge,and so I'm really excited to
have you guys here today.
One of the things that you said, Mollie, is take the time to
(12:44):
learn those soft skills, becauseI think that's important.
I'm thinking back even to highschool, when you are prepping
for college.
Those are things you'relearning anyway.
But to go into the field ofwork, soft skills are, I'm
thinking, just dealing withcoworkers, just general soft
skills are important, as is, butespecially you're needing to
prepare to go into the workforce.
Can you just talk a little bitabout either your experiences or
(13:07):
just some of what that may looklike?
Mollie Hernandez (13:10):
Sure, and keep in mind this is intimidating to
go in if it's your first timeinto the workplace and, like
we've said multiple times,there's just not a lot of
representation of disability inthe workplace.
So when you're going in youmight be someone's first
interaction with your particulardisability or even disability
in general.
So I think part of that isbuilding your confidence.
(13:33):
That's one of those soft skillsyour ability to self advocate
and express what you need.
Sell yourself your strengths,don't let everyone look at you
and see your disability.
Go in confident and sell thosestrengths and let it be known
why you're there and why youwere hired.
And again, you don't know ifthat representation is impacting
your coworkers.
(13:53):
I'm sure it is and in a waythat it normalizes your
existence in the workplace.
But it also needs to normalizeyour existence to those in the
community seeing you in theworkplace.
So I think, working on thosesoft skills that can go really
far back on soft skills Like inmy case it was simple navigation
(14:14):
and computer skills, thingsthat I had taken for granted for
so much of my life.
I had to relearn that and thenjust the ability to, like I said
, self advocate in the workplace.
Soft skills can be allencompassing, and I think we'll
talk a little more aboutdisability etiquette, awareness,
setting an example within theworkplace of all of that.
Yeah, soft skills and this canbe another entire podcast.
(14:37):
That's something that's reallyfocused on.
If you are a student with adisability or the parent or a
child with a disability, thatsomething that should be focused
on with pre-employmenttransition services is working
on those work-based readinessskills.
So, again, that's probablyanother complete podcast that we
can get into, but it just goesto show how critical soft skills
(14:59):
are into establishing yourreadiness for training and
education and also just being inthe workplace.
Jen Goodwin (15:07):
And I'll go along with that as well.
For me, before I could go backto school, I needed to learn to
drive.
I didn't have a driver that wasgoing to be available for me,
so that was a step that I neededto take to get in that
direction.
And I remember, just with theschool aspect, just trying to
figure out, okay, how am I goingto carry these books with hands
that don't really workappropriately or normally, as we
(15:29):
would call it?
Just trying to figure out, okay, how am I going to carry a
backpack full of books, how am Igoing to get them in and out of
the bag, those sorts of things.
But what I figured out wasthose were all things that you
figure out as you go.
I couldn't figure it all outbefore I started.
I had to adjust and change as Iwent, and so, while we're
(15:50):
working on soft skills and allof those things and figuring out
everything that we canbeforehand, we also have to
remember that, once we get inthese jobs, we can ask for
accommodations too, becausethere are so many times that
it's just something simple thatcan be changed, that can make a
big difference in our day-to-daylives, and so we just have to
remember that it's not theemployer's responsibility to
(16:11):
come to us to ask what we need.
It's our responsibility to goto them and say, hey, because of
my disability I need X, Y and Z, and then it can open the
conversation between theemployee and the employer to
determine how to bestaccommodate those needs to get
you exactly where you need to besuccessful in your career.
Wensday Kraemer (16:29):
I think, with the advocacy Mollie and Jen
talked about, it's reallyimportant to advocate for
yourself and part of that isknowing yourself, knowing what
may work or not work, a bit oftrial and error, getting
creative.
I think those are all importantaspects, especially for talking
about going to work andbecoming employed and advocating
(16:49):
for yourself.
It might be a difficult time.
It's a muscle to learn how toadvocate for yourself better and
better, but it's reallyimportant that you develop that
muscle, that skill, and youspeak up for what you need.
Because Jen said, somethingthat could be pretty small of an
accommodation may make theworld of difference and you want
to be able to say that's whystruggle if you don't have to.
Lani Jennings-Hall (17:10):
I think that's a great point and, Jen, I
think you said it theaccommodation piece the biggest
point is asked for it.
You need X, for example, rightnow at my desk.
I have a little attachment ontomy desk because of my issues
with my hands and I knew Ineeded something built for me to
be able to type for a long timeduring the day.
It was accommodation that I hadto have, but the thing is, your
(17:33):
organization isn't going toknow what you need and how best
to accommodate you if you don'task for it.
We have a job accommodationnetwork released a survey in May
of 2023.
And this is just to give youguys perspective of this and
maybe more towards our employers.
This may not be somethingthat's going to cost an arm and
(17:53):
a leg.
A lot of these things arefairly cost effective.
So the survey collected datafrom 720 employers from
different industries andbusiness sizes.
Nearly half of the employers49% said the accommodations
needed by employees withdisabilities cost absolutely
nothing $0.
And another 43% of theemployers incurred a one-time
(18:14):
cost, of which the medianexpenditure was about $300.
If you think about that of yourannual budget again, not that
much, when it was actually areduction in costs from the
previous year's reports.
I think sometimes employers maybe hesitant.
They'd be like, oh man, I'mabout to have to do this or this
.
A lot of these accommodationsare not super costly.
Jen Goodwin (18:35):
And with what Lani was saying.
There, though, you don't haveto request those prior to
employment, so you can get thejob before you start requesting
a bunch of accommodationsbecause you don't want to scare
an employer away.
You don't want them to bethinking, oh, she comes with a
whole list of things that I'mgoing to have to make sure that
I'm checking off and they maythink that they're expensive
(18:57):
before you get in there.
But you're not required todiscuss your disability until
you need the accommodations onceyou're hired.
If you do need accommodationsfor the hiring process, then you
can ask for those as you needthem, but for actually needing
your accommodations within theworkplace, you can wait until
you're already hired.
So there's not going to be anylevel of discrimination with
(19:18):
that.
Lani Jennings-Hall (19:20):
Ultimately, the accommodations are there for
you to be able to do your joband to help you.
I know, Mollie, I always liketo have your example of your
phone as your best assistivetechnology.
It's just so simple to thinkabout when you're talking about
accommodations and technologyand stuff to help you do your
work, because ultimately, thereare so many positives to that
employment.
Mollie Hernandez (19:40):
Sure, most of my daily tasks are done with the
assistance of some form ofassistive technology and, keep
in mind, assistive technologycan go from no tech to high tech
.
And yeah, like you said, Ialways say that my smartphone is
the most powerful piece oftechnology I have on me at any
time.
It can read things to me, itcan describe my environment to
(20:00):
me.
I can control all differentaspects of my house through my
phone, so it's phenomenal.
But then there's so much that Ido and I have that I forget
about it because it's so naturalto me Tactical indicators that
allow me to use keypads andstuff.
Sometimes you may have to gointo your workplace and, yeah,
if you have a disability, youneed to disclose it, if you need
(20:21):
an accommodation and you mayhave to do some educating and
explain.
These are some simple thingsthat allow me to access and use
the microwave in the break room,or this helps me do my work and
there's no shame in that.
It's just who we are and how welive.
And, again, you never know whoyou're impacting down the road.
I mean, if you're the first inyour workplace with a disability
(20:41):
, blaze that trail, blaze itproudly because again, you're
representing and you'reimpacting on down the line by
showing we can be accommodatedand we can do amazing work and
be an asset to our employerswith what we're able to do with
very simple adjustments andaccommodations.
Wensday Kraemer (20:59):
Something small in the office.
I'm looking at it right now.
I can't easily open and shutour doors, and so there's
literally all throughout ouroffice, on our doors, a piece of
rope tied to all of the handlesand along the long string, so I
can pull on that behind me toshut the door or to open the
(21:20):
door.
It's something very inexpensivebut it makes all the difference
in me being able to shut thedoor behind me or open it.
Lani Jennings-Hall (21:27):
Well, the things I loved that it wasn't
even like the initial goalbehind this podcast that you
guys have hit on so well isrepresentation.
Maybe you didn't see it earlyon in your life representation,
people with disabilities in theworkforce or setting that path.
Now, if there is not thatrepresentation, where you are to
(21:48):
set that and have thoseconversations?
I really love that you guyshave consistently hit on that
representation piece within theemployment.
Mollie Hernandez (21:58):
In a way it's my hope that anytime I'm dressed
for work, I'm into my businessattire, I have Boomer and
harness, I'm carrying my laptopcase.
I want to turn heads.
I want people to see that andbe like you know what?
Look what she's doing.
She's working and really hopechildren see that.
And whether it's businessattire or whether I'm running
(22:18):
through the grocery store, Ijust want people to see that
disability doesn't relegate youto sitting at home and waiting
on a government check.
That's not what it has to be.
Jen Goodwin (22:29):
I don't disclose my disability all the time, even
though I have a visibledisability.
I'm in a wheelchair and it'spretty obvious if you see me.
But I work from home a lot thesedays, so my clients often don't
know that I have a disability,just from our conversations that
we have.
But every now and then I willdisclose it to them, just so
(22:49):
that they can know that I amsomeone who does really
understand what they're goingthrough.
In a lot of situations, iftheir disability is similar to
mine, I'm not going to try tosay that we're all the same and
I know what you're going through, because I also have a
disability, because that'scertainly not true.
But in other instances,whenever it is something that I
can empathize with, then I'lldisclose my disability too and
(23:12):
just give tips on how I've madeit work, and especially if it's
somebody who's looking to goback to work or go back to
school or something like that,because I do want to show them
what is possible and that evenwith a really life-changing
injury, you can figure it outand build yourself back up and
get back into the workforce.
That that's what your goals are.
Lani Jennings-Hall (23:34):
Then we talked about that representation
.
So what does workplaceinclusion look like?
That's a big question.
Yeah, it is, and I don't thinkthat there's a right or a wrong
answer necessarily.
But I would be interested toknow from the employment team
what do you guys think aboutwhen you hear workplace
inclusion?
Mollie Hernandez (23:54):
I feel like we fall within a model
organization for what that is,and I think inclusion should,
number one, just be a safe spacewhere you can go to your
manager or your HRrepresentative and say this is
who I am and this is what I need.
And if it's not that's anotherthing I want to touch upon it
may not be the exactaccommodation that you request.
(24:16):
That's a collaborative effort,working with HR for them to
offer equivalent accommodations,and it may not be exactly what
you wanted, but it might meetyour needs and work out just
fine.
But for that inclusionperspective, it's for your
employer, your coworkers, tohave an open mind.
I think it's also for you tohave an open mind as well to see
how you're going to fit intothe workplace.
(24:38):
I think within every workplacethere are those natural supports
that just fall in, maybe thosecoworkers that you just feel
comfortable with and buildingthose relationships.
And that's how inclusion feelsit's comfortable and it's safe
and it allows you to grow andbuild upon the skills that you
already have.
Again, inclusion is a greatword and we talk about inclusive
(25:02):
classrooms, inclusiveworkplaces.
It's just where you're thereand it's normal.
That's what inclusion is to me.
I'm curious to what everyoneelse thinks.
Jen Goodwin (25:10):
To me it's people with all different levels of
ability, so people withdisability and people who are
able-bodied, all of thoseworking together within an
organization just to bedifferent pieces of the puzzle,
and we all make it work together.
In my first job out of lawschool I brought my coworkers in
quickly.
On day one I was telling themwith a chair that had some kind
(25:31):
of short in it and so we were inan elevator and my chair just
quit working and I use a powerchair, so it's 400 pounds and in
an elevator with a chair that'snot working.
So I got to train brand newcoworkers and I felt like trial
by fire but teach them how tounlock the wheels of my chair
(25:54):
and push 400 pound gin down thehall and back to our office and
till I could get it workingagain, I'm like just wiggle this
wire a little bit.
And to them they probablyremember that day like oh my
gosh, that was the day I had topush my coworker down the hall.
To me it was just another day.
It's just living life with adisability and you've got so
many moving parts that you needto keep working.
(26:15):
It's just another day in myworld, but it was fun to break
them in properly and just figureit out.
They were good sports and webecame great friends and it all
worked out.
Wensday Kraemer (26:27):
I think, to ensuring that a lot of
workplaces now have workplacesponsored socials and more like
fun events, team builders,making sure those are accessible
and inclusive as well, so thatway everyone can participate not
just the work but the teambuilding and the bonding as well
.
But it's important to thencreate some of those memories
(26:48):
like Jen was talking about.
Jen Goodwin (26:50):
One of my favorite parts of that job was we went to
lunch every day.
I told everybody whenever theycame in I was not in charge of
their diet or their wallet, butwe were going to lunch and you
were welcome to join us.
We had fun.
We would talk a little bitabout work, but we would talk
about life while we were atlunch and just really get to
know each other on a friendshiplevel, just like everybody else
(27:12):
does at work.
It was great.
Lani Jennings-Hall (27:14):
Now, I love all of that, I think it's all
very important, but I think toget to that inclusion, that
ideal workplace inclusion, thereare obstacles that need to be
removed.
Wensday Kraemer (27:24):
So that it is feasible.
Lani Jennings-Hall (27:26):
Y'all want to talk a little bit about
removing obstacles in theworkplace so that it is an
integrated employment.
Mollie Hernandez (27:32):
Well, I think all of us will agree that the
biggest obstacle any of usencounter is public perception.
So if you are a person thatdoes not have a disability and
you're in the workplace, youneed to really look at your
perceptions, your biases,because that's what impacts us
the most Simple architectural orenvironmental challenges.
We're creative.
(27:54):
We've been doing this a whileso we can figure that stuff out.
But overcoming other people'sbiases, that's the toughest part
and that's where being a goodself-advocate, selling yourself
it's really important to be ableto do that and go in, charming
and disarming people in a way.
Having that this is who I ampersonality and being able to
(28:16):
laugh off those awkward momentsand oh my goodness, there's so
many.
It's just going to happen, butyou learn to laugh and to me,
that's one of the biggest things.
That's my biggest goal.
I want to blast throughpeople's public perceptions.
I want to totally change theirthoughts regarding what
disability is, what they thinkit looks like.
I want to show them that we areequal members of society.
(28:37):
We are equal members of theworkplace.
So public perceptions it for me.
Wensday Kraemer (28:42):
Two thoughts for me.
If we say we can do something,believe us, like you would
anyone else without a disabilityand to a lot of companies have
Emergency equity and inclusion,some sort of training related to
that, annually or on some sortof regular basis, and part of
that education should beDisability as well.
(29:04):
Those conversations should behad when the other conversations
are being had, as well as fulletiquette.
I'm just understanding andhaving a better understanding of
disability.
Jen Goodwin (29:14):
On the flip side for me of what Mollie was saying
.
I also need to be able to getin the door physically.
Outside, inside all of thosedifferent things that Both
places that I've been in haveset up Push button door openers,
something simple that justallows it.
That's something.
I'm going to go in and out ofthat door multiple times
(29:35):
throughout the day.
Something simple that makes mylife a whole lot easier, that
other people wouldn'tnecessarily think about.
And an accessible bathroom.
Just because there's a sign onthe door with the wheelchair on
it does not mean that it'sactually wheelchair accessible.
But I face that in lots ofdifferent situations in life,
(29:56):
for sure.
But but something that peopledon't really think about a whole
lot, but it absolutely matters,and that was one of the things
in the first job that we had tohave corrected and actually
built an accessible bathroomthat everyone on the floor left
afterwards Because it was sonice in comparison to what we
had before.
Yeah, those two things domatter.
Lani Jennings-Hall (30:18):
We've talked a lot about representation and
inclusion.
We've also talked about yourjourneys.
So quick wrap up Do you guyshave any advice or resources
that you would recommend to ourlisteners who are really
starting their journey towardsemployment?
Wensday Kraemer (30:35):
I would say you know your work, you have
abilities and skills and haveconfidence that you will be
getting good employee.
I also say in that same breaththat some jobs just don't work
out, some jobs you may just notbe great at, and that's fine,
that is unusual, and so don'tgive up if the first job doesn't
(30:58):
work out.
Jen Goodwin (30:59):
And I would also say reach out to Arkansas
Vocational Rehab or Division ofServices for the Blind, and
there are a lot of resourcesthat are available for people
who are looking to go back towork or to stay employed either
ones.
Maybe you acquire a disabilitythat doesn't take you out of the
workforce, but you do need someextra help.
Reach out if that's yoursituation as well, because they
(31:20):
can offer lots of differentresources that are there, I know
.
Whenever my injury happened,shortly after I got out of the
hospital, I just had a list ofnames and numbers of people to
call.
I went and made an appointmentwith a vocational rehab
counselor.
I sat in their office and I saidI don't know what you guys do,
but I was told to come here.
(31:40):
So hi, I'm Jen, it's nice tomeet you, and they showed me a
lot of what they could offer andhelped with accommodating a car
.
So that would be one of thefirst steps for me for getting
back into the workforce.
And so there are a lot ofresources out there, though you
may not know about, and don'tmiss those opportunities by not
(32:02):
calling them and just seeingwhat's available.
Yeah.
Mollie Hernandez (32:05):
Jen's exactly right with that.
Explore the resources, utilizethe resources that are available
to you.
Whether you've never workedbefore, it's been a long time
since you worked.
You went home.
You were like me, you thoughtthat's where I'm supposed to be.
But then you realize you reallywant back in the workplace.
So you might need to return towork, or you're in that position
that I didn't have theopportunity or knowledge.
(32:28):
Maybe you're still working andyou're trying to prevent job
loss, so you want to maintainthat employment.
Explore those resources.
But ultimately, what I want youall to know is when you get to
that point, when you're walkinginto the door of wherever you're
working, you're always growing.
Don't cut yourself short.
Don't think that you can'texpand your abilities, no matter
(32:50):
what your position is.
When I look back years ago,when I first started at
disability rights, if I realizedall the things I would learn
and the things that I'm doingnow, that first day I probably
would have thought you know whatI can't do.
This.
I've got to quit.
It's okay to not know how to dothings and it's okay to ask for
help and it's okay to needadditional training.
You're going to grow and you'regoing to be able to do great
(33:12):
things, regardless of ability ordisability.
We all grow, no matter whatwe're doing, at all times during
our lives.
Jen Goodwin (33:20):
I want to add one more thing too.
I mentioned ARS and DSB, but Iwant to add one more acronym to
the mix, and that's the WIPA,which is Work Incentives
Planning and Assistance Program.
And so they actually help.
If you're worried about losingyour benefits by going back to
work, call them through ARsources and they can help you
(33:41):
navigate that process and whatyour benefits will look like in
the wake of a new career.
So don't be afraid to lose yourbenefits whenever there are
people that can help younavigate those waters.
Mollie Hernandez (33:55):
Work is going to look different for everyone.
When we discuss work, of coursewe always mean competitive,
integrated employment for samepay for same work that other
people without disabilities doin an inclusive environment,
like we've discussed.
But we understand it can stilllook differently, that maybe you
physically you don't have thestamina for a 40 hour work week
that's okay.
Or maybe you really want tomake sure that you do maintain
(34:18):
or maximize benefits and theamount you will work might look
a little different.
So work does not look the samefor everyone and we're not
telling everyone you got to goout and work 40 hours a week.
We know that sometimes that'sjust not practical and not
feasible.
But we don't want you toexclude yourself from the
workforce, thinking that's allthat's out there.
There's a lot of different jobopportunities out there that can
(34:41):
fit your unique strengths andabilities.
Jen Goodwin (34:44):
And if you get a no from any of these places, give
us a call at Disability Rights.
We'll help you walk throughthose situations too and figure
out if some of those no shouldbe yeses or if it's just
something else that we need toredirect and work through.
Know that you're not alone.
Disability Rights Arkansas ishere.
Many individuals withdisabilities, whether you see it
(35:06):
or not, have been employed orare employed currently.
People are here.
Lani Jennings-Hall (35:19):
Thank you, ladies, so much.
And to our listeners, all ofthese resources, as well as some
additional employment resources, will be available in the show
notes.
And thank you, guys, forjoining me.
And to our listeners, theresources mentioned today, as
well as some additionalemployment resources, will be
available in the show notes.
Thank you for listening and, ifyou like this episode, don't
(35:39):
forget to leave a five starrating and a review.
Here at DRA, we envision inArkansas where people with
disabilities are equal membersin their communities and can
dictate their lives throughself-determination.
And, as made clear in thispodcast, we can't create that
change without bringingself-advocates to the table.
If you're interested in moreinformation, make sure to
subscribe to this podcast andvisit our website.
Hi and welcome back for season two of
Including You (00:14):
A Disability Rights Arkansas Podcast.
I'm your host, LaniJennings-Hall, here to bring
information to people withdisabilities on how to navigate
your rights things that help youwith your everyday life and how
to navigate the complex systemsof how to get the support you
need.
Everyone has the right to knowtheir rights everyone, including
you.
To kick this season off, we'vebrought back three powerhouse
(00:36):
speakers who are now all on theemployment team together here at
DRA.
If you haven't heard theirepisodes on traveling or dating,
make sure to check out seasonone.
Today we're going to discussblasting through public
perception in the world ofemployment.
Jen, Mollie, and Wednesday,thank you again for joining me
and our listeners here onIncluding you.
Okay, guys, we are back withthree members of DRA.
(01:12):
We've got the employment teamwith us, so we are, of course,
talking employment.
Let's start off with ourlisteners that may not have been
with us on season one.
If you, ladies, want to tell usa little bit about yourself,We
nsday, I'm going to kick it offwith you.
Wensday Kraemer (01:26):
Hey everyone.
Thank you again for having meon the podcast.
My name is Wensday.
I was not born on a Wednesday,like everyone thinks.
My name comes from the Addamsfamily.
I am on the employment team.
I am an advocate here atDisability Rights Arkansas.
A little bit about myself I wasactually born with a disability,
as born with Spina Bifida.
(01:46):
Bifida o growing up with adisability definitely had
differences and barriers.
I always do growing up that Iwas going to work and go to
college and all of the things.
But I remember specifically inmy teen years being like is it
really possible?
How is this going to look forme?
(02:07):
Because I didn't seerepresentation.
I didn't see people that lookedlike me working in various
fields.
I did go to college.
I got my two undergrad degreesin sociology and criminology and
then I got my Master's incounseling.
By the end of my Master's, Iknew that working with people
(02:30):
who have disabilities andassisting and being at the table
making decisions for peoplewith disabilities was something
that I wanted to do because,again, I saw that lack of
representation and that lack ofthoughts and ideas going into
the table when things are beingdecided.
I didn't see people withdisabilities there at the table
(02:53):
and, yeah, that's why I'm here.
I love what I do.
I think again, representationis so important and I know I
wish I saw more of me when I wasworking and navigating
employment.
Lani Jennings-Hall (03:07):
Thank you Wensday.
One thing you talked about isyou really didn't see that
representation at the table.
Mollie, you had a similar-ishthing with your original
employment.
You want to introduce yourselfas well?
Mollie Hernandez (03:21):
Sure, hi everyone.
My name is Mollie Hernandez andI'm also an advocate here at
Disability Rights on theEmployment Team.
And yes, so I have a disability.
I have a degenerative retinaldisease that resulted in
blindness during adulthood.
So it was one of those thingsthat I grew up without a
disability until lateadolescence started noticing
(03:41):
some changes in my vision.
By 19, when I was in college, Iwas diagnosed with a
degenerative retinal condition,but we really didn't know what
that would entail.
My vision impairment was veryearly stage at that point, so I
just thought it was somethingthat I needed to deal with on my
own and really didn't know whatwould ultimately happen with my
vision.
(04:01):
But long story short, I did,during my 20s, just begin losing
significant amounts of myvisual field and visual acuity
until ultimately, now I'm blind.
During my 20s I did finishcollege and then I started a
career as a teacher.
All of these things were thingsI was just accommodating myself
as I lost my vision until Ijust got to the point that it
(04:24):
was too much to accommodate onmy own and I had not seen other
people who were blind teaching.
So I thought what you do is yougo home.
Once you have a disability, youdon't work anymore, you just go
home.
I was not aware of all theresources out there to assist.
The representation just wasn'tthere.
People mind we're in ruralArkansas.
(04:45):
There are a lot of barriersthat we have transportation,
different things that do permitpeople with disabilities from
being in the workplace.
But, yeah, what I saw as myselfa blind person it was
antiquated, it was Mary fromLittle House on the Prairie.
Those were the people I hadseen as blind individuals in the
media.
I didn't see a blind womangoing to work, going to teach.
(05:08):
I thought that's what you do,you just go home and you're no
longer out in public, out in thecommunity.
And that's a really sad thingin retrospect because I was
teaching, I was working withyoung children that maybe they
had disabilities or maybe theywould grow up and acquire a
disability, and I could havebeen such powerful
representation there within theschool system if I had been
(05:29):
aware that there were resourcesavailable to keep me teaching
and to show that, yeah, you havea disability and you can live a
normal life.
I'm hoping I'm doing that nowand that representation that I
wish I had seen back 20, 25years ago.
Yeah, that's why I'm here andthat's why I do what I do,
because I didn't find out aboutthe resources until it was too
(05:51):
late.
Navigating them is not alwayseasy and you're not always
successful.
You're going to have stumblingblocks because spoiler alert
disability is hard.
These are things that we'retrying to navigate and there's
no playbook.
You're running it in real timeand you're just trying to figure
things out as you go.
So I'm glad that I've got thepersonal experience that I can
share with people.
(06:12):
But I also have theprofessional expertise.
I do have a master's degree inrehabilitation counseling so I
know that side of stuff.
I work daily with vocationalrehabilitation counselors and
administrators, as well asconsumers.
So it's a nice blending of mypersonal experience and
professional knowledge that Ihope I can keep others from
(06:33):
experiencing what I did andgiving up far too quickly on
that dream of employment.
Lani Jennings-Hall (06:38):
Thank you, Mollie.
And then, rounding off theemployment team, we have Jen.
Jen, can you tell us a littlebit about yourself as well?
Jen Goodwin (06:45):
Sure.
So again, thanks for having us.
So with mine, like Mollie, Ihave spinal cord injury.
That happened when I was 25.
So prior to that I was workingin outside cells as a drug rep,
living a fast-paced life and inand out of doctors' offices
constantly every single day anddinners at night and long hours
(07:06):
and just an intense career atthat point.
And then got the boat with thewrong person and ended up with a
spinal cord injury, and so atthat point I became quadriplegic
, and so life changeddrastically in an instant and
one night for me.
So it was different in thatregard.
Then, immediately, I thought I'mjust going to regain everything
(07:28):
that I lost and I'll be back tomy career, all of those things
that I didn't understand realitywith a spinal cord injury at
that point in my injury.
So I went on and did all therehab that I could possibly do
for five years.
That was my focus, and I justreally focused on learning to
walk.
I thought that was what Ineeded to do to be made whole
(07:50):
and complete again, and sofinally I decided that I could
either learn to walk or I couldlearn to live, and so I decided
that I was going to move myfocus to learning to live, and
learning to live with disabilityand what that was going to look
like.
So I came back to Arkansas andbuilt an accessible home and got
to where I got comfortable inmy day to day activities, that
(08:12):
sort of thing.
And then, honestly, I got boredand was like, okay, I'm in my
twenties and I'm quote unquoteretired and this doesn't feel
right to me.
And so I was ready forsomething different, and for
mine I was in a little differentsituation and that I had
long-term disability that Ididn't want to lose, and I knew
that I would lose that as soonas I went back to work.
And so I wanted to trysomething in the interim before
(08:36):
I went straight back to work,because I wanted to make sure
that it was going to besomething that I could be
successful at before I gave upthat long-term disability policy
.
So I decided to go to lawschool and took the LSAT and did
well enough on it, that schoolwas covered and decided this is
going to be my next step.
And so I went to law school andabsolutely loved it, like I
loved being back out with peopleagain and having something that
(08:59):
I had to get up and go to andsomething that was a challenge
for me again, and so I realizedthat there were a lot of things
that I hadn't considered beforethat were still accessible for
me, and so went to law school,finished that and then got my
first job as an attorney in themedical legal partnership at
Children's Hospital, and it wasfantastic.
I got to work with other clientswho had disabilities and all
(09:22):
sorts of different faces oftheir life and kids with
disabilities, so I felt like Igot to give back to them and
help them just navigate whatlife was going to look like.
And then now I've moved over todisability rights and I
absolutely love it here becausewe get to work with people with
all different kinds ofdisabilities in all stages of
life and especially on peoplewho are looking to get back to
work, because I do a personalexperience with what that looks
(09:44):
like and what that can feel likeand just helping to navigate
that system.
Mollie Hernandez (09:48):
Lani, if I can jump in for just a minute and
kind of dovetail into what Jenwas saying.
Jen and I, both of ourdisabilities happened in
adulthood and we knew we wantedto work.
We ultimately had that goal.
But there is a time that isnecessary for building soft
skills.
Well, in my case, I couldn'tvery well go out to work if I
(10:09):
couldn't safely navigate my homeor my community.
So, going back to work, it's amulti step, multi phase process.
So don't think that everyone islooking at you like, ok, go to
work, it's time and you're notready, especially with acquired
disability.
There's also just a time foremotional healing and coming to
terms with who you are, thereinventing of you, and there's
(10:32):
no shame in taking that timebefore getting back to work.
We promote work and wanteveryone to work and there are
so many benefits and I'm surewe'll get into that later.
Just the mental health aspect,and Jen talked about that
engagement of being in lawschool and using her mind in a
different capacity that itwasn't all focused on the injury
and come back.
But you need that time and youneed that space and there's no
(10:55):
shame in taking it and there areservices with educational
rehabilitation that allow youthat time to focus on the soft
skills that are critical inorder to be successful in
returning to work.
Maybe you're needing to useadaptive software, like in my
case.
I couldn't even type my name ona computer after some time
because I didn't have thetraining with screen readers on
(11:18):
the software.
You can't go back to schoolunless you can use a computer.
So there's so many very simplesteps that people take for
granted that you have to rebuildin order to reenter the
workforce, and it takes time.
It's not always a quick fix andallow yourself that space and
that grace if you're dealingwith new disability.
Wensday Kraemer (11:37):
I also would like to jump in whether you're
born with a the disability, orit's acquired.
I know Molly, which is likemental health.
It's okay to be frustrated somedays, I know, at least myself.
I don't know Mollie and Jen, Iagree or not, but I get
frustrated some days, Like whyis this task a bit more
difficult?
Et cetera, et cetera, and thewhole things are positive for me
(11:58):
in my life right now.
But it's okay to get frustratedat times and be like this isn't
the most fun thing ever, orthat I have to ask for XYZ
because I can't do XYZ.
So it's okay to be frustrated.
It's not always all positive,happy emotions all the time, but
employment is worth it.
Not being in poverty it's worthit.
(12:20):
Having choices is worth it.
Lani Jennings-Hall (12:22):
Thank Mollie , Wensday.
That is spot on and leads intoa really good conversation, I
feel like, because, as ourlisteners can hear, we have a
wide, diverse, live experiencedteam for our employment team
here at Disability RightsArkansas.
They have all the knowledge,and so I'm really excited to
have you guys here today.
One of the things that you said, Mollie, is take the time to
(12:44):
learn those soft skills, becauseI think that's important.
I'm thinking back even to highschool, when you are prepping
for college.
Those are things you'relearning anyway.
But to go into the field ofwork, soft skills are, I'm
thinking, just dealing withcoworkers, just general soft
skills are important, as is, butespecially you're needing to
prepare to go into the workforce.
Can you just talk a little bitabout either your experiences or
(13:07):
just some of what that may looklike?
Mollie Hernandez (13:10):
Sure, and keep in mind this is intimidating to
go in if it's your first timeinto the workplace and, like
we've said multiple times,there's just not a lot of
representation of disability inthe workplace.
So when you're going in youmight be someone's first
interaction with your particulardisability or even disability
in general.
So I think part of that isbuilding your confidence.
(13:33):
That's one of those soft skillsyour ability to self advocate
and express what you need.
Sell yourself your strengths,don't let everyone look at you
and see your disability.
Go in confident and sell thosestrengths and let it be known
why you're there and why youwere hired.
And again, you don't know ifthat representation is impacting
your coworkers.
(13:53):
I'm sure it is and in a waythat it normalizes your
existence in the workplace.
But it also needs to normalizeyour existence to those in the
community seeing you in theworkplace.
So I think, working on thosesoft skills that can go really
far back on soft skills Like inmy case it was simple navigation
(14:14):
and computer skills, thingsthat I had taken for granted for
so much of my life.
I had to relearn that and thenjust the ability to, like I said
, self advocate in the workplace.
Soft skills can be allencompassing, and I think we'll
talk a little more aboutdisability etiquette, awareness,
setting an example within theworkplace of all of that.
Yeah, soft skills and this canbe another entire podcast.
(14:37):
That's something that's reallyfocused on.
If you are a student with adisability or the parent or a
child with a disability, thatsomething that should be focused
on with pre-employmenttransition services is working
on those work-based readinessskills.
So, again, that's probablyanother complete podcast that we
can get into, but it just goesto show how critical soft skills
(14:59):
are into establishing yourreadiness for training and
education and also just being inthe workplace.
Jen Goodwin (15:07):
And I'll go along with that as well.
For me, before I could go backto school, I needed to learn to
drive.
I didn't have a driver that wasgoing to be available for me,
so that was a step that I neededto take to get in that
direction.
And I remember, just with theschool aspect, just trying to
figure out, okay, how am I goingto carry these books with hands
that don't really workappropriately or normally, as we
(15:29):
would call it?
Just trying to figure out, okay, how am I going to carry a
backpack full of books, how am Igoing to get them in and out of
the bag, those sorts of things.
But what I figured out wasthose were all things that you
figure out as you go.
I couldn't figure it all outbefore I started.
I had to adjust and change as Iwent, and so, while we're
(15:50):
working on soft skills and allof those things and figuring out
everything that we canbeforehand, we also have to
remember that, once we get inthese jobs, we can ask for
accommodations too, becausethere are so many times that
it's just something simple thatcan be changed, that can make a
big difference in our day-to-daylives, and so we just have to
remember that it's not theemployer's responsibility to
(16:11):
come to us to ask what we need.
It's our responsibility to goto them and say, hey, because of
my disability I need X, Y and Z, and then it can open the
conversation between theemployee and the employer to
determine how to bestaccommodate those needs to get
you exactly where you need to besuccessful in your career.
Wensday Kraemer (16:29):
I think, with the advocacy Mollie and Jen
talked about, it's reallyimportant to advocate for
yourself and part of that isknowing yourself, knowing what
may work or not work, a bit oftrial and error, getting
creative.
I think those are all importantaspects, especially for talking
about going to work andbecoming employed and advocating
(16:49):
for yourself.
It might be a difficult time.
It's a muscle to learn how toadvocate for yourself better and
better, but it's reallyimportant that you develop that
muscle, that skill, and youspeak up for what you need.
Because Jen said, somethingthat could be pretty small of an
accommodation may make theworld of difference and you want
to be able to say that's whystruggle if you don't have to.
Lani Jennings-Hall (17:10):
I think that's a great point and, Jen, I
think you said it theaccommodation piece the biggest
point is asked for it.
You need X, for example, rightnow at my desk.
I have a little attachment ontomy desk because of my issues
with my hands and I knew Ineeded something built for me to
be able to type for a long timeduring the day.
It was accommodation that I hadto have, but the thing is, your
(17:33):
organization isn't going toknow what you need and how best
to accommodate you if you don'task for it.
We have a job accommodationnetwork released a survey in May
of 2023.
And this is just to give youguys perspective of this and
maybe more towards our employers.
This may not be somethingthat's going to cost an arm and
(17:53):
a leg.
A lot of these things arefairly cost effective.
So the survey collected datafrom 720 employers from
different industries andbusiness sizes.
Nearly half of the employers49% said the accommodations
needed by employees withdisabilities cost absolutely
nothing $0.
And another 43% of theemployers incurred a one-time
(18:14):
cost, of which the medianexpenditure was about $300.
If you think about that of yourannual budget again, not that
much, when it was actually areduction in costs from the
previous year's reports.
I think sometimes employers maybe hesitant.
They'd be like, oh man, I'mabout to have to do this or this
.
A lot of these accommodationsare not super costly.
Jen Goodwin (18:35):
And with what Lani was saying.
There, though, you don't haveto request those prior to
employment, so you can get thejob before you start requesting
a bunch of accommodationsbecause you don't want to scare
an employer away.
You don't want them to bethinking, oh, she comes with a
whole list of things that I'mgoing to have to make sure that
I'm checking off and they maythink that they're expensive
(18:57):
before you get in there.
But you're not required todiscuss your disability until
you need the accommodations onceyou're hired.
If you do need accommodationsfor the hiring process, then you
can ask for those as you needthem, but for actually needing
your accommodations within theworkplace, you can wait until
you're already hired.
So there's not going to be anylevel of discrimination with
(19:18):
that.
Lani Jennings-Hall (19:20):
Ultimately, the accommodations are there for
you to be able to do your joband to help you.
I know, Mollie, I always liketo have your example of your
phone as your best assistivetechnology.
It's just so simple to thinkabout when you're talking about
accommodations and technologyand stuff to help you do your
work, because ultimately, thereare so many positives to that
employment.
Mollie Hernandez (19:40):
Sure, most of my daily tasks are done with the
assistance of some form ofassistive technology and, keep
in mind, assistive technologycan go from no tech to high tech
.
And yeah, like you said, Ialways say that my smartphone is
the most powerful piece oftechnology I have on me at any
time.
It can read things to me, itcan describe my environment to
(20:00):
me.
I can control all differentaspects of my house through my
phone, so it's phenomenal.
But then there's so much that Ido and I have that I forget
about it because it's so naturalto me Tactical indicators that
allow me to use keypads andstuff.
Sometimes you may have to gointo your workplace and, yeah,
if you have a disability, youneed to disclose it, if you need
(20:21):
an accommodation and you mayhave to do some educating and
explain.
These are some simple thingsthat allow me to access and use
the microwave in the break room,or this helps me do my work and
there's no shame in that.
It's just who we are and how welive.
And, again, you never know whoyou're impacting down the road.
I mean, if you're the first inyour workplace with a disability
(20:41):
, blaze that trail, blaze itproudly because again, you're
representing and you'reimpacting on down the line by
showing we can be accommodatedand we can do amazing work and
be an asset to our employerswith what we're able to do with
very simple adjustments andaccommodations.
Wensday Kraemer (20:59):
Something small in the office.
I'm looking at it right now.
I can't easily open and shutour doors, and so there's
literally all throughout ouroffice, on our doors, a piece of
rope tied to all of the handlesand along the long string, so I
can pull on that behind me toshut the door or to open the
(21:20):
door.
It's something very inexpensivebut it makes all the difference
in me being able to shut thedoor behind me or open it.
Lani Jennings-Hall (21:27):
Well, the things I loved that it wasn't
even like the initial goalbehind this podcast that you
guys have hit on so well isrepresentation.
Maybe you didn't see it earlyon in your life representation,
people with disabilities in theworkforce or setting that path.
Now, if there is not thatrepresentation, where you are to
(21:48):
set that and have thoseconversations?
I really love that you guyshave consistently hit on that
representation piece within theemployment.
Mollie Hernandez (21:58):
In a way it's my hope that anytime I'm dressed
for work, I'm into my businessattire, I have Boomer and
harness, I'm carrying my laptopcase.
I want to turn heads.
I want people to see that andbe like you know what?
Look what she's doing.
She's working and really hopechildren see that.
And whether it's businessattire or whether I'm running
(22:18):
through the grocery store, Ijust want people to see that
disability doesn't relegate youto sitting at home and waiting
on a government check.
That's not what it has to be.
Jen Goodwin (22:29):
I don't disclose my disability all the time, even
though I have a visibledisability.
I'm in a wheelchair and it'spretty obvious if you see me.
But I work from home a lot thesedays, so my clients often don't
know that I have a disability,just from our conversations that
we have.
But every now and then I willdisclose it to them, just so
(22:49):
that they can know that I amsomeone who does really
understand what they're goingthrough.
In a lot of situations, iftheir disability is similar to
mine, I'm not going to try tosay that we're all the same and
I know what you're going through, because I also have a
disability, because that'scertainly not true.
But in other instances,whenever it is something that I
can empathize with, then I'lldisclose my disability too and
(23:12):
just give tips on how I've madeit work, and especially if it's
somebody who's looking to goback to work or go back to
school or something like that,because I do want to show them
what is possible and that evenwith a really life-changing
injury, you can figure it outand build yourself back up and
get back into the workforce.
That that's what your goals are.
Lani Jennings-Hall (23:34):
Then we talked about that representation
.
So what does workplaceinclusion look like?
That's a big question.
Yeah, it is, and I don't thinkthat there's a right or a wrong
answer necessarily.
But I would be interested toknow from the employment team
what do you guys think aboutwhen you hear workplace
inclusion?
Mollie Hernandez (23:54):
I feel like we fall within a model
organization for what that is,and I think inclusion should,
number one, just be a safe spacewhere you can go to your
manager or your HRrepresentative and say this is
who I am and this is what I need.
And if it's not that's anotherthing I want to touch upon it
may not be the exactaccommodation that you request.
(24:16):
That's a collaborative effort,working with HR for them to
offer equivalent accommodations,and it may not be exactly what
you wanted, but it might meetyour needs and work out just
fine.
But for that inclusionperspective, it's for your
employer, your coworkers, tohave an open mind.
I think it's also for you tohave an open mind as well to see
how you're going to fit intothe workplace.
(24:38):
I think within every workplacethere are those natural supports
that just fall in, maybe thosecoworkers that you just feel
comfortable with and buildingthose relationships.
And that's how inclusion feelsit's comfortable and it's safe
and it allows you to grow andbuild upon the skills that you
already have.
Again, inclusion is a greatword and we talk about inclusive
(25:02):
classrooms, inclusiveworkplaces.
It's just where you're thereand it's normal.
That's what inclusion is to me.
I'm curious to what everyoneelse thinks.
Jen Goodwin (25:10):
To me it's people with all different levels of
ability, so people withdisability and people who are
able-bodied, all of thoseworking together within an
organization just to bedifferent pieces of the puzzle,
and we all make it work together.
In my first job out of lawschool I brought my coworkers in
quickly.
On day one I was telling themwith a chair that had some kind
(25:31):
of short in it and so we were inan elevator and my chair just
quit working and I use a powerchair, so it's 400 pounds and in
an elevator with a chair that'snot working.
So I got to train brand newcoworkers and I felt like trial
by fire but teach them how tounlock the wheels of my chair
(25:54):
and push 400 pound gin down thehall and back to our office and
till I could get it workingagain, I'm like just wiggle this
wire a little bit.
And to them they probablyremember that day like oh my
gosh, that was the day I had topush my coworker down the hall.
To me it was just another day.
It's just living life with adisability and you've got so
many moving parts that you needto keep working.
(26:15):
It's just another day in myworld, but it was fun to break
them in properly and just figureit out.
They were good sports and webecame great friends and it all
worked out.
Wensday Kraemer (26:27):
I think, to ensuring that a lot of
workplaces now have workplacesponsored socials and more like
fun events, team builders,making sure those are accessible
and inclusive as well, so thatway everyone can participate not
just the work but the teambuilding and the bonding as well
.
But it's important to thencreate some of those memories
(26:48):
like Jen was talking about.
Jen Goodwin (26:50):
One of my favorite parts of that job was we went to
lunch every day.
I told everybody whenever theycame in I was not in charge of
their diet or their wallet, butwe were going to lunch and you
were welcome to join us.
We had fun.
We would talk a little bitabout work, but we would talk
about life while we were atlunch and just really get to
know each other on a friendshiplevel, just like everybody else
(27:12):
does at work.
It was great.
Lani Jennings-Hall (27:14):
Now, I love all of that, I think it's all
very important, but I think toget to that inclusion, that
ideal workplace inclusion, thereare obstacles that need to be
removed.
Wensday Kraemer (27:24):
So that it is feasible.
Lani Jennings-Hall (27:26):
Y'all want to talk a little bit about
removing obstacles in theworkplace so that it is an
integrated employment.
Mollie Hernandez (27:32):
Well, I think all of us will agree that the
biggest obstacle any of usencounter is public perception.
So if you are a person thatdoes not have a disability and
you're in the workplace, youneed to really look at your
perceptions, your biases,because that's what impacts us
the most Simple architectural orenvironmental challenges.
We're creative.
(27:54):
We've been doing this a whileso we can figure that stuff out.
But overcoming other people'sbiases, that's the toughest part
and that's where being a goodself-advocate, selling yourself
it's really important to be ableto do that and go in, charming
and disarming people in a way.
Having that this is who I ampersonality and being able to
(28:16):
laugh off those awkward momentsand oh my goodness, there's so
many.
It's just going to happen, butyou learn to laugh and to me,
that's one of the biggest things.
That's my biggest goal.
I want to blast throughpeople's public perceptions.
I want to totally change theirthoughts regarding what
disability is, what they thinkit looks like.
I want to show them that we areequal members of society.
(28:37):
We are equal members of theworkplace.
So public perceptions it for me.
Wensday Kraemer (28:42):
Two thoughts for me.
If we say we can do something,believe us, like you would
anyone else without a disabilityand to a lot of companies have
Emergency equity and inclusion,some sort of training related to
that, annually or on some sortof regular basis, and part of
that education should beDisability as well.
(29:04):
Those conversations should behad when the other conversations
are being had, as well as fulletiquette.
I'm just understanding andhaving a better understanding of
disability.
Jen Goodwin (29:14):
On the flip side for me of what Mollie was saying
.
I also need to be able to getin the door physically.
Outside, inside all of thosedifferent things that Both
places that I've been in haveset up Push button door openers,
something simple that justallows it.
That's something.
I'm going to go in and out ofthat door multiple times
(29:35):
throughout the day.
Something simple that makes mylife a whole lot easier, that
other people wouldn'tnecessarily think about.
And an accessible bathroom.
Just because there's a sign onthe door with the wheelchair on
it does not mean that it'sactually wheelchair accessible.
But I face that in lots ofdifferent situations in life,
(29:56):
for sure.
But but something that peopledon't really think about a whole
lot, but it absolutely matters,and that was one of the things
in the first job that we had tohave corrected and actually
built an accessible bathroomthat everyone on the floor left
afterwards Because it was sonice in comparison to what we
had before.
Yeah, those two things domatter.
Lani Jennings-Hall (30:18):
We've talked a lot about representation and
inclusion.
We've also talked about yourjourneys.
So quick wrap up Do you guyshave any advice or resources
that you would recommend to ourlisteners who are really
starting their journey towardsemployment?
Wensday Kraemer (30:35):
I would say you know your work, you have
abilities and skills and haveconfidence that you will be
getting good employee.
I also say in that same breaththat some jobs just don't work
out, some jobs you may just notbe great at, and that's fine,
that is unusual, and so don'tgive up if the first job doesn't
(30:58):
work out.
Jen Goodwin (30:59):
And I would also say reach out to Arkansas
Vocational Rehab or Division ofServices for the Blind, and
there are a lot of resourcesthat are available for people
who are looking to go back towork or to stay employed either
ones.
Maybe you acquire a disabilitythat doesn't take you out of the
workforce, but you do need someextra help.
Reach out if that's yoursituation as well, because they
(31:20):
can offer lots of differentresources that are there, I know
.
Whenever my injury happened,shortly after I got out of the
hospital, I just had a list ofnames and numbers of people to
call.
I went and made an appointmentwith a vocational rehab
counselor.
I sat in their office and I saidI don't know what you guys do,
but I was told to come here.
(31:40):
So hi, I'm Jen, it's nice tomeet you, and they showed me a
lot of what they could offer andhelped with accommodating a car
.
So that would be one of thefirst steps for me for getting
back into the workforce.
And so there are a lot ofresources out there, though you
may not know about, and don'tmiss those opportunities by not
(32:02):
calling them and just seeingwhat's available.
Yeah.
Mollie Hernandez (32:05):
Jen's exactly right with that.
Explore the resources, utilizethe resources that are available
to you.
Whether you've never workedbefore, it's been a long time
since you worked.
You went home.
You were like me, you thoughtthat's where I'm supposed to be.
But then you realize you reallywant back in the workplace.
So you might need to return towork, or you're in that position
that I didn't have theopportunity or knowledge.
(32:28):
Maybe you're still working andyou're trying to prevent job
loss, so you want to maintainthat employment.
Explore those resources.
But ultimately, what I want youall to know is when you get to
that point, when you're walkinginto the door of wherever you're
working, you're always growing.
Don't cut yourself short.
Don't think that you can'texpand your abilities, no matter
(32:50):
what your position is.
When I look back years ago,when I first started at
disability rights, if I realizedall the things I would learn
and the things that I'm doingnow, that first day I probably
would have thought you know whatI can't do.
This.
I've got to quit.
It's okay to not know how to dothings and it's okay to ask for
help and it's okay to needadditional training.
You're going to grow and you'regoing to be able to do great
(33:12):
things, regardless of ability ordisability.
We all grow, no matter whatwe're doing, at all times during
our lives.
Jen Goodwin (33:20):
I want to add one more thing too.
I mentioned ARS and DSB, but Iwant to add one more acronym to
the mix, and that's the WIPA,which is Work Incentives
Planning and Assistance Program.
And so they actually help.
If you're worried about losingyour benefits by going back to
work, call them through ARsources and they can help you
(33:41):
navigate that process and whatyour benefits will look like in
the wake of a new career.
So don't be afraid to lose yourbenefits whenever there are
people that can help younavigate those waters.
Mollie Hernandez (33:55):
Work is going to look different for everyone.
When we discuss work, of coursewe always mean competitive,
integrated employment for samepay for same work that other
people without disabilities doin an inclusive environment,
like we've discussed.
But we understand it can stilllook differently, that maybe you
physically you don't have thestamina for a 40 hour work week
that's okay.
Or maybe you really want tomake sure that you do maintain
(34:18):
or maximize benefits and theamount you will work might look
a little different.
So work does not look the samefor everyone and we're not
telling everyone you got to goout and work 40 hours a week.
We know that sometimes that'sjust not practical and not
feasible.
But we don't want you toexclude yourself from the
workforce, thinking that's allthat's out there.
There's a lot of different jobopportunities out there that can
(34:41):
fit your unique strengths andabilities.
Jen Goodwin (34:44):
And if you get a no from any of these places, give
us a call at Disability Rights.
We'll help you walk throughthose situations too and figure
out if some of those no shouldbe yeses or if it's just
something else that we need toredirect and work through.
Know that you're not alone.
Disability Rights Arkansas ishere.
Many individuals withdisabilities, whether you see it
(35:06):
or not, have been employed orare employed currently.
People are here.
Lani Jennings-Hall (35:19):
Thank you, ladies, so much.
And to our listeners, all ofthese resources, as well as some
additional employment resources, will be available in the show
notes.
And thank you, guys, forjoining me.
And to our listeners, theresources mentioned today, as
well as some additionalemployment resources, will be
available in the show notes.
Thank you for listening and, ifyou like this episode, don't
(35:39):
forget to leave a five starrating and a review.
Here at DRA, we envision inArkansas where people with
disabilities are equal membersin their communities and can
dictate their lives throughself-determination.
And, as made clear in thispodcast, we can't create that
change without bringingself-advocates to the table.
If you're interested in moreinformation, make sure to
subscribe to this podcast andvisit our website.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com