February 13, 2025 • 58 mins
What if navigating the dating world could be as empowering as it is challenging, especially when visible disabilities come into play? Join us as we sit down with Disability Rights Arkansas team members, co-host Jamie, and our insightful guests Wensday Kramer and Sherice Smith, to explore the evolving landscape of dating with disabilities. We discuss the pros and cons of online and in-person dating, as Wednsday shares her journey of stepping away from dating apps, and Sherice highlights the accessibility and convenience these platforms provide. Together, we uncover the essence of forming genuine connections, looking beyond societal perceptions, and focusing on authenticity and self-acceptance.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amber (00:00):
Welcome to Including you a podcast by Disability Rights
Arkansas.
On this podcast, we shine alight on the real everyday
experiences of people withdisabilities the challenges,
triumphs and all the moments inbetween.
At Disability Rights Arkansas,we're committed to providing
guidance to people withdisabilities on navigating their
(00:22):
rights, tackling everydayissues and accessing the support
they need in a complex world.
In this podcast, including you,we bring that information
directly to you, the listener.
We'll cover topics likeaccessibility questions,
building your career, securingthe care you deserve and even
(00:44):
navigating the nuances of loveand relationships as a person
with a disability, becauseeveryone has the right to know
their rights Everyone, includingyou.
So, whether you're a seasonedadvocate or someone just
starting to think differentlyabout disability, you're in the
right place.
I'm your host, amber Quaid, andtogether we'll explore how small
(01:06):
, meaningful changes can make abig difference.
Let's dive in.
Thank you all for joining ustoday.
I'm your host, amber Quaid, andwe're going to talk about
dating with disabilities, butfirst I want to let y'all know I
have a co-host here with metoday.
Say hi, jamie, hi guys, thanksfor tuning in.
And we also have two amazingspecial guests with us today.
(01:29):
We're going to first start withWednesday and then move to
Cherise, if y'all want to take amoment and introduce yourselves
.
Wensday (01:36):
Hi.
Yes, Thank you for having me.
My name is Wednesday Kramer.
No, I was not born on Wednesday.
I get that all the time.
My name comes from the Adamsfamily.
I work here at DisabilityRights Arkansas as a disability
employment advocate.
I'm really excited for today'sconversation on dating with a
disability.
I am for some context with myanswer.
I am 29.
(01:57):
I will be 30 this year, so thatdefinitely really lends itself
to how I view this topic and,yeah, I'm excited for today.
Sherice (02:08):
Hello, I am Cherise Smith.
I have been with DisabilityRights Arkansas for over a year.
I am their special projectcoordinator.
I have been a disabilityadvocate for over 20 years.
I am 45 years old and I havelived experience with
(02:29):
disabilities.
I have spina bifida.
Wensday (02:33):
Oh, yes, I should have added too I also was born with
spina bifida, so I used awheelchair my whole life, which
adds to the dating arena whichadds to the dating arena.
Amber (02:48):
Well, thank you both for sharing that and for talking
with us today.
As you notice, they saidthey're all part of Disability
Rights Arkansas.
We all work together and sothis is going to make for a
lovely casual conversation.
But, in case you were alsowondering, they mentioned their
ages, and it's because we wantedto give different perspectives
and different ideas about datingdisabilities.
(03:10):
So let's kind of just diveright in Basically, with
February having people thinkabout love, valentine's Day, we
thought it would be the perfecttime to have a casual
conversation about dating with adisability, and I really can't
wait to see what y'all have tosay on the topic.
So let's start with how do youapproach dating?
Sherice (03:32):
My approach to dating has evolved over the years.
Now it's more about onlinedating.
I have no aspirations for beingmarried or children.
I'm happy being, you know, justcasual dating.
So I look at it as just anactivity to do and it just
(03:57):
depends.
Everything is different now.
You know it used to be.
You could do one-on-oneconnections, but now, with
online dating, that's how I domost of my dating so my approach
to dating has definitelyevolved.
Wensday (04:11):
I know we're going to touch on online dating and
dating apps in a minute, which Ihave plenty to say about that,
um, but you know I did startwith that in my early 20s, even
recently, but it's a new yearand at the end of last year I
deleted all my dating apps.
We'll see if I go back to themor not at some point, but I
really wanted to give myselfthis year to try to date in the
(04:35):
wild is what I like to say.
Put myself out there, go tomore events Our weather hasn't
been like the best recently butreally trying to find different
places to meet people and reallyput myself out there, I think
I'm going to start a challengewhere, at least once a month, I
have to find an event wherethere could be plenty of single
(04:56):
people around my age to go, and,yeah, and just put myself out
there, meet people in person,and you know see how that works.
Just put myself out there, meetpeople in person and, and you
know see how that works, Iactually, uh, I had a date
somewhat recently and I met thatperson, um, through, uh,
in-person activity, um so yeah,and that brings us onto our next
(05:22):
question.
Jaime (05:22):
So what are y'all's thoughts on dating apps and
online dating, and pros and cons, for sure, of both of them?
Sherice (05:27):
Online dating.
It definitely has its benefits.
Number one it's reallyaccessible for a person with a
disability.
I don't have to leave my houseto meet people.
I can do that initial, gettingto know you online through video
chats and things of that naturebefore going on an actual date.
(05:48):
So it's made dating definitelymore accessible and it's widened
my choices.
The only problem is the choicesare horrible.
So there is that.
So there is that.
(06:28):
And the con is, you knoweverybody, there's all these
tips.
That is one of the uh cons andum.
Also, you know, one of thethings I didn't like about is
Wednesday.
Put it, meeting people out in awhile is getting their gut
reaction to my disability andnot having to have that awkward
conversation because I use awheelchair and my disability is
(06:50):
indeed very visible.
So when I meet someone, I knowtheir first reaction says it all
, and so that is the thing.
But dating, you know, datingwith apps is good because you
get to know people, you get totalk to people and I've even met
people who I've become friendswith.
(07:10):
So even if I didn't get a date,I did get some friends and that
was kind of nice to just tohave some male companionship to
talk you know, I have to say Iagree with a lot, pretty much
everything Sharice said.
Wensday (07:23):
Although, sharice, I don't know what dating apps
you're on that like then equalgood friendships, so I don't
know how to talk after thisabout that.
I would say you know again apro, the accessibility you know
kind of I don't know what wordto use other than like vet.
Like you know, go throughpeople.
Not really waste a lot of timeif you're decide that you're not
(07:44):
very compatible.
Through people, not reallywaste a lot of time if you're
decide that you're not verycompatible.
Um, I think a con um, againlike what Sheree said, is, uh,
you don't necessarily get theirimmediate real reaction,
especially being someone in awheelchair, with a disability.
Um, and in person, I find thatit's easier for people to get to
know me quicker and not justmake a whole lot of as many
(08:07):
assumptions as they can on adating profile.
And while dating profiles doprovide you a lot of choices, I
actually have found it prettyexhausting and honestly
discouraging that there are allthese people out there and
(08:27):
honestly discouraging that thereare all these people out there
but none of them are a match, Iguess you'll say, or a good fit.
And yeah, I've seen all thoselike dating tips and what to put
in your profile, what picturesyou need, what she'd write in
your bio, all of this otherstuff, and it just feels like it
becomes almost like this gameand if you swipe on like 10
(08:50):
people and you don't get asingle person swiping back on
you, it's hard.
You know, I've worked on mycomments a lot over the years
but it's hard to not get a hitto a confidence from that and I
think in person it's easier tofeel the vibes in to.
Yeah, I also will say withdating apps, I think while you
(09:13):
can vet people and decide youknow basic things if you're
interested or not.
For me I am someone that for meit very much depends on like
how they are in person and theirmuch depends on like how they
are in person and theirpersonality and like how they
speak and speak to others.
And I think that's so hard totell on an app and I think
there's some people that youknow I wouldn't necessarily like
(09:33):
typically be someone I'm likeattracted to, but I meet them in
person, their personalityreally shines and then you know
that might be someone to beinterested in that I that I
honestly probably want to beinterested on.
If I just saw on their datingprofile Also.
I mean, I don't see women'sprofiles but men's profiles.
They need some work and theythey usually don't have enough
(09:54):
information, and so I'm justlike how am I supposed to
determine anything based on this?
Amber (09:59):
Well, thank you both for sharing things I didn't even
think about.
When it comes especially datingapps versus in person, but in
talking about like videoconferencing or meeting in
person, how soon would youdisclose your disability?
Sherice (10:16):
Well for me, I will be perfectly honest, when I was
Wednesday's age, my confidencein the opposite sex wasn't great
, so it did take me a littlelonger to disclose my disability
, because I wasn't sure how theywould react and people in that
(10:37):
age group are a little lessmature and so you never knew,
kind of, what you were going toget.
And unfortunately, because Idid take so long to disclose,
one time I had a really bad aguy that had a really bad
reaction and it was hurtful andI was like, well, I'm just going
to be done with that and I'mjust going to tell them up front
(11:00):
.
It's going to be one of thefirst things I say and if they
like it, they like it, and ifthey don't, they like it, and if
they don't, they don't.
And I'm just going to keep itmoving.
And also, I've embraced mydisability much more as I've
gotten older and I'm very proudof my disability, where I don't
think I was necessarily.
I think I was always proud, butI didn't think people would be
(11:23):
as accepting as they are now.
I think the growth of peoplewith disabilities being more
visible and people withdisabilities being seen on
different platforms and thingslike that has made people more
accepting than they were, youknow, when I was Wednesday's age
and I think that was also partof the problem is that we just
(11:45):
were not seen as much as we arenow.
It wasn't as talked about.
So now I tell immediately likeI have a disability, like it,
love it, whatever's not reallymy problem, and if a person can
accept that then that's not theperson I really need to be with
anyway.
Wensday (12:04):
Do you guys ever mature ?
You did say that.
I almost interjected.
I was like do you guys evermature, though I think I think
it might be.
I think the older I get, Ithink guys are going to mature
and this hasn't happened yet,but I'm hopeful that maybe it
will eventually happen.
But I so when I first started ondating apps, I was I don't know
(12:28):
20, 21.
I was young, I'm still anundergrad, and I think the first
dating app I was on firstprofile I ever made, because
I've been on and off themthroughout the years.
That's why I said earlier like,oh, who knows if I'll retab
with them at some point, but I'mreally, really trying to do
this year a year without them.
But when I made my first datingprofile, I just didn't have any
(12:50):
good, I think, pictures withouta lot of friends in it, where
you really could see mywheelchair and I don't know.
I just think you know it's notmy, you know it's not the only
interesting thing about me.
There's plenty of otherinteresting things about me that
don't have to do with mydisability too, um, and me as a
person, and so I just didn't andI just have a picture.
I was like I'm just gonna putthese pictures up, and I had
been talking to someone and, um,it was just a few messages and
(13:11):
then, um, we I think we're hadjust hung out with some friends,
and so we were both sendingpictures to each other, and
those pictures you could clearlysee I'm in a wheelchair and it
wasn't like I was going to hideanything.
If we actually want to date,but again, this was like one of
our like first conversationsever, um, and as soon as in a
picture, uh, not a single othermessage just deleted me, um, and
(13:34):
so I was like, oh well, so youknow, I feel like there's
obvious, only one obvious reasonwhy you would be doing that.
And so after that, like, I tooksome, um, you know, cute
pictures, pictures where you canclearly see I was disabled, and
I make sure I have, anytime I'mdating apps, several on my
profile, um, just so it's clear.
Uh, I don't bring it up reallyever, though, when I'm talking
(13:55):
to guys, I feel like you know,um, it's on my dating profile,
like you'll, you know, it's onthere for you to see.
Um, now, of course, I may notbring up my disability, but I've
definitely had my fair share ofmen bring up my disability.
I get the.
(14:17):
I've gotten several reallyinteresting messages.
I think you know some.
I uh, yeah, I I um.
A lot of times, depending onpeople's reaction and questions,
they'll get deleted.
I get a lot of uh.
I've gotten several questionsabout how I would um interact
(14:40):
with them in various uh,personal ways, ways.
I guess you could say, um, andit's just so interesting me that
that would be your first lineon a dating app, um, so you know
it's, it's been interesting andand I don't tend to get that
really in person, which is alsowhy I've enjoyed in-person
interactions at least people inperson have a little more
(15:02):
decorum, I guess you would say,and have a bit more of a filter.
Sherice (15:07):
So yeah, Something Wednesday said that was
interesting and something thatmade me think about is you know,
one of the negatives aboutshowing your disability right
away is you either get deletedor you get a litany of questions
that has nothing to do with youas a person.
They want to know about yoursexuality and how that works.
(15:28):
They ask really stupidquestions that make no sense and
then they feel like they couldbe like the most invasive and
that that's okay and they cansay ask you the most personal of
questions after they just metyou.
They know nothing about you sobecause of your disability, they
feel like that gives them aright to ask you whatever they
(15:50):
want and nothing is off limits,nothing is too personal or
anything to ask.
Wensday (15:57):
And I just have to say, if I'm on a dating app, I think
some things should just beobvious to some degree.
You know, I just think somesomething don't need to be asked
.
Yes, if I get back in thedating app eventually again or
hopefully I don't have to, butif I do eventually get back on
them, I can't wait for, with theconfidence I have now, what I
(16:21):
know now.
I can't wait for some responsesthat I'm planning on sending,
depending on what I get asked,Because I have some really
creative responses now for whatI've previously been told and
that's exactly what I was justthinking from you both.
Amber (16:35):
I was like I'm pretty sure y'all have some snappy
comebacks for just ridiculousquestions that'll be asked.
Like nobody toleratesridiculous questions, I mean,
there's times people just walkoff.
So why people think it'sappropriate in any situation is
just beyond me.
Jaime (16:51):
Yeah, definitely blows my mind for sure.
So I guess that kind of goesalso to our next kind of topic
too.
So dating with a disability howunique it is, how different it
is, you know, sometimes comparedto people who don't have one.
Sherice (17:04):
Well, you know, it's unique in a way that you know,
when I date a guy, they're like,oh, I want to take you
somewhere.
And it's a surprise.
I'm like, no, I can't dosurprises, I can't afford
surprises.
I need to know exactly wherewe're going, because I need to
know if it's accessible.
Well, I checked.
Well, you don't have adisability, Trust me.
(17:24):
You didn't check well enough.
Or, trust me, they told yousome line or told you something,
or you probably just looked ona website and said it was
accessible and I can assure you.
You know, just let me check.
And that's one of the thingsthat's like unique.
And also the invasive questions.
And it's like you don't evendude, you don't even like know
(17:47):
me and how can you ask me aboutsex or my ability to have
children?
Like that's after hello andwhat's your name.
And I mean, do you ask anybodyelse those questions when you
first meet them?
And I'm almost positive youdon't.
So that's unique.
And also there's this thingwhere some of them are trying to
(18:12):
be so cool with it that they goout of their way to like show
that they're really cool withyou having a disability.
That like.
I had an experience where therewas like someone in a parking
spot spot, accessible parkingspot that did not need it, and
he wanted to talk to the manager, he wanted to file a complaint.
He was like I was like that islike a first class problem,
(18:35):
let's react, let's just relax alittle bit.
I'm not excited about it either, but there's no need for going
to have a World War III over aparking spot.
Then there's these people thathave disability fetishes.
(18:56):
That's a person who fetishizespeople with disabilities and
they're called devotism.
They go for people who havedisabilities and it is weird.
It is so weird and you couldpick it up almost immediately
after about five minutes ofconversation, because they'll
(19:18):
tell you how they've dated.
You know, five people with adisability.
And dating with a person with adisability, unless you're in
that world, is unique.
You know, not a lot of peoplehave dated more than one or two
people with a disability if theydon't have a disability
themselves.
So if they tell me, oh, I'vedated one person with death, one
(19:38):
person was the amputee, oneperson was in a wheelchair, one
person you know was black, I'mlike, okay, you have a problem,
it was very nice to meet you,but I think I'm done here, and
so those kinds of things areunique.
(20:00):
And then you also get where youhave to skirt this fine line of
telling them about yourdisability without making it
like a medical conversation andkeeping it casual and keeping it
common sense.
I have a disability, I use awheelchair.
I'm paralyzed from the waistdown so I need my wheelchair and
I can't go anywhere without it.
I sometimes have spasms,whatever.
It is those common sense thingsthat you need to tell them, but
(20:24):
you don't need to give them amedical history of what spina
bifida is and how it affects youand all of that.
You don't need to go into allof that because that number one,
that's not important to thedating experience.
And number two, it's not sexy.
Nothing about a medicalconversation is sexy, and if it
is, you should seek professionalhelp.
Wensday (20:44):
I would also say something that I didn't really
hear Charisse mention, but Iknow Charisse and I have talked
about dating a lot outside ofthis conversation too.
So our experiences is not justthe dating experience for us and
the people we're dating orinterested in dating or anything
like that, but other peoplearound interested in dating or
(21:08):
you know anything like that, butother people around.
So, like you know I'm sureSharice is I'm definitely used
to people staring at me.
Tis my life.
I don't really care what otherpeople think at this point.
I think being disabled, youkind of have to have a thick
skin, but you know, someone elsemight not be used to that.
I will also say I've gottensome and I think, well, I don't
even know what I want to saythis Well-meaning I don't know
(21:28):
if they're well-meaning commentsabout people I've gone out with
.
I remember in college I went asa friend with a guy to a
sorority function and a coupleweeks later I was at an event
and a girl came up to me who Ikind of knew, but I didn't say
we were close or anything.
And a girl came up to me who Ikind of knew, but I didn't say
(21:52):
we were close or anything.
And she was like, oh, I saw youwent with the guy's name to
this event.
And I was like, oh yeah, it wasa lot of fun.
You know, whatever you'd say,and she goes oh yeah, that's
just so great that he went withyou.
He just goes like he just lovesgoing with everyone.
And I don't think I knew atthat moment I was like 20, I was
20 at this point and I was likeI didn't even know what to say.
(22:12):
And I was with a friend and andthey were like, no, he's really
busy, like I think you knowthey're friends and he wanted to
go with her.
Uh, and now I would have a uh,more of a response to that
individual if I, if somethinglike that happened to me again.
But I just think it's sointeresting that people think
that it's valiant or someone's ahero or such a great guy if
(22:34):
they go out with me.
I had other people tell me like,oh, you just need a really
special guy.
And I'm like, well, I hope Idon't just date someone that's
not special.
I do want someone special.
Doesn't everyone want to bewith someone special?
I just think it's sointeresting those responses I
get.
You know, I bring and I've hadto do a lot of work on myself
and, like Therese mentioned, Ithink even when I grew up,
(22:55):
there's not a lot ofrepresentation of people with
disabilities in general, letalone dating, and I've had to
work on myself a lot and beconfident but, dang like I put a
lot to the table.
Who's lucky to date me?
And I just I think it's soweird the comments and questions
and things I've gotten and thatother people with disabilities
(23:18):
get related to dating.
And I also have some questionstoo about, well, have you tried
dating someone with a disability?
Like, well, if I met someonewith a disability and I was
vibing with them and they askedme out, I would say yes, like
it's just not like a, oh, I'mjust going to go search it.
Like you know, I live in apretty rural state.
There's not that many peoplehere.
There's only so many people ingeneral my age, so I'm not going
(23:39):
to just be like, let me justfind someone that you know is
exactly like me in every way.
I just also think that's kindof weird when I get those
questions too.
Sherice (23:49):
You know, that's something that someone actually
said to me was why don't you?
It would be so much easier ifyou just dated a person with a
disability.
Wouldn't your life be so mucheasier?
And I'm like, dating is hardand if I found the person with a
disability who I vibe with,sure, but I'm not gonna limit
myself, because it makes otherpeople feel better and they're
(24:12):
like oh, it's so good of thisperson to take you out, so he's
the one that's lucky.
I'm not lucky, he's lucky thatI chose him.
Because I chose him, he didn'tchoose me.
I was born snarky, so thathelps helps.
Wensday (24:27):
I was just going to add to I've seen some online
discourse related to dating withdisability and I've even seen
on like threads and stuff wherepeople are like, oh, I'm
interested in someone with adisability, but you know how
would I need to help them?
Or you know what would be myresponsibilities and I'm like I
can make it over 30 years of mylife without you.
Clearly don't.
I don't need your assistanceand when that time conversation
(24:49):
comes, we'll have thatconversation.
But no need to worry about, onthe before the first date, what
I might need.
Uh, all assistance with.
I've made it through lifewithout you.
Amber (24:56):
I think I'm okay what both of y'all said.
I was like I don't know if yousaw us over here trying not to
interrupt y'all talking, but wewere clapping and we were like
whoa, this is just like spot on.
This is like I think peoplereally need to hear that and
understand exactly what you bothjust brought to light, which so
I'm going to kind of like breakit up a little bit here, only
(25:18):
because I'm interested really atthis point is how is dating
going based on your age group?
Because I know we talked aboutage earlier at the beginning and
y'all have a few years inbetween y'all, so it's kind of a
different experience in today'sday and age.
So how has dating been goingbased on your particular age
group?
Sherice (25:40):
The pickings are slim in my age group because most
people are in their 40s, areusually married right or want to
get married, and I, as Iexpressed earlier, I have no
interest in that.
So you know, most of themeither are and so it's the the
pickings are.
If they're slim when I was inmy 20s, they're extra slim now.
Uh, but people in my age groupare much more or at least the
(26:06):
guys that I've come across aremuch more mature and accepting
of my disability.
It's not as much as a big dealas it was when I was younger.
You know, they still want toknow about personal things,
about sex and things like that.
You know, because they're menand but they don't, they don't
focus on it in as much.
In a way that's weird and Ithink that's because as you age,
(26:31):
things start happening to yourbody and you slow down and you
start having health conditionsand things like that.
If you're in your 40s and youdon't have at least one
medication you're taking, you'redoing really great.
So I think that that's helpfulbecause of the men in my age
(26:51):
group.
But a lot of older peoplebecause I do tend to date older
are not tech savvy, so onlinedating is hard and older people
are traditionalists, right.
So go meet somebody out in thewild and don't get offline.
That's not real life, that'snot real people.
(27:11):
So it can be a mixed bag inyour 40s.
It can be something else inyour 40s, when you're 45.
Wensday (27:19):
Yeah, I am in the thick of everyone being married.
It seems like I just want tosay too, for those listening to
this not everyone is married,not everyone's found their
person.
It might feel like it,definitely can feel like it, but
not everyone is.
But I think it's interestingwhat Sheree said about how you
(27:41):
know, men do mature a little bitas they get older and I do find
I don't know if I want to saybetter luck, but I mean really
better luck in more genuine,engaging conversations with men
that are older.
I don't really have a lot ofinterest or speak to a lot of
(28:02):
men in their 20s.
Usually it's you know, men thatare, you know, maybe six, ten
years older.
Um is really where I found thatthings get a little bit better.
I guess you would say um andand again, there uh seem to be a
little bit more interested inlike companionship and like
meeting, uh, someone for reasonsother than just like oh, look
(28:24):
who I'm dating, or um, or sexand things like that.
It seems a bit more genuine onother fronts as well.
Sherice (28:32):
I guess I should reframe that and say they're not
more mature.
I think they just care less,maybe because their pickings are
slim too.
So they're like okay, this iswhat we got, let's do this,
we're doing it, we're doing it.
So I think that's also part ofit as well.
Maybe they're not more mature,it's just they care less.
Wensday (28:55):
At a certain age they're like it's all fine, well
, and I also think they'veprobably had more experiences
and clearly, if they're in thedating scene, dating hasn't
really worked for them um longterms and maybe, yeah, they're
more open to other possibilitiesand just like you know, like
let me see, let me you know,their brain is a little bit more
fully developed.
Jaime (29:15):
So when y'all first started showing interest in
dating when you guys wereyounger, how did your parents
react to that, or what was theirkind of you know intro
conversation to dating when youguys were younger?
Sherice (29:26):
Well, my father was not okay with it, and I'm 45 years
old and he's still not okay withit.
He'll never be okay with it.
He's so against it.
Men are horrible.
I explained to him that he'salso a man and he's the only one
that will ever love me,according to him.
So there's that.
My mother, on the other hand, mystepmother, who raised me, was
(29:51):
very much like you need to knowwhat dating is like.
This is what people try to do.
Don't let they will takeadvantage of you.
They will.
You know.
They will try to do anything toget you into bed.
They will.
No, don't let a man treat youKnow your worth.
So my stepmother was very muchabout making sure I was prepared
(30:17):
for dating.
But I later went to go live withmy mother and I didn't even go
to my prom because my mother waslike you're not getting in a
car and you're not going on adate with a guy without us,
without us, you know going withyou and you have a chaperone.
I'm like there's chaperonesthere.
They were like absolutely not.
We don't know what this personwill do, I think also, and then
(30:42):
by the time my sister came along, who's 13 years younger than I
am, she doesn't have adisability but my parents were
like, fine, she can go out withanybody she wants.
I think by the time they got tothe younger ones they were just
tired, anyway, but so it waslike whatever.
But my parents were definitelymore protective.
(31:03):
But my stepmom in particularwas like telling me you need to
be prepared for real life.
She always prepared me for reallife.
She made me work at a young agebecause she thought it was
important that I made my ownmoney and not rely on the
government and people.
She wanted me to have goodgrades and go to school because
(31:26):
she didn't want to limit mypossibilities, because she knew
the world would limit me.
And she also knew with datingthat people were mean and cruel
and she wanted me to be preparedto have thick skin for all of
that.
And now my parents my mom justwants me to have grandchildren,
give her grandchildren.
And my dad still is like no.
Wensday (31:44):
I would say for my parents, particularly my mom, I
think really just had to havethe conversation.
Actually, I should back up andsay I'm an only child so I have
no way to compare you know howmy parents would be with other
children.
The main conversation I thinkthat would be different if my
parents had other children is mymom just, you know, did at a
(32:08):
really young age, appropriately,and then especially a lot in
high school before going tocollege, explain the idea of
like fetishism and thestatistics behind people with
disabilities being sexuallyassaulted compared to those
without disabilities, and sohaving a lot of real life, tough
(32:28):
conversations with me just tomake sure that I was aware and
you know, and careful.
Obviously I think everyoneneeds to be careful, but I think
really making me aware of, likeI said, the statistics, and
then I mean above that I mean myI'm sure my dad also thinks
(32:49):
there's probably not anyonethat's, you know, great enough
for me, um, but I've gone onsome dates and my parents
haven't had a lot to say.
I didn't really date when I wasa teenager at all.
I'm from a small town, um, so Ididn't really date until I
started going to college and andall of that.
So by then my parents basicallyhad the.
You know, he better be a niceguy and he better treat you
(33:10):
right, and I mean you're anadult.
So that really was the onlyconversations we've really had
related to dating.
So yeah, I will say there wasone time I was on a dating app.
I was at home one weekend and Iwas swiping through and my mom
was like what are you doing?
I'm like, oh, look look at who,like look at these men.
(33:32):
And I'm like, wait, why'd yousay no to him?
Wait, why'd you say yes to him?
And I had to explain.
She goes oh, interesting,because you know, that wasn't
really how, that's not how myparents met, and so this is all
very interesting.
So I think she supports mygoing in the wild journey this
year.
Sherice (33:52):
So yeah, I will say that my mother, in particular,
was very much against me goingon a dating app when I was
Wednesday's age because, youknow, you just didn't know what
you were going to get.
(34:12):
You know, and my mother watcheda lot of crime shows when I was
coming up, so everybody was aserial killer or a rapist or
something.
So she was like go outside.
And I was not a person wholiked to go out and meet people
and things like that, because Iam actually very introverted and
don't like to socialize a lot.
And so she was like no, go meetpeople.
And I think now, as time hasevolved, she's much more okay
(34:35):
with me meeting people on online, but she's like go to a public
place.
And also, one thing I wanted tomention is when I first started
mentioning dating my parents mymother, not my dad my mother
talked to me about sexuality andsex and protection and being
(34:59):
very careful, because sheunderstood that I could have
children and nobody needs asingle mother, and so she was
very much about talking aboutprotection.
She's like I can't stop youfrom doing it, you know what it
is and I'm going to give you allthe information.
So she was very sure to give meall the information about sex.
Wensday (35:24):
Yeah, my mom was as well and I think that took you
know the mystery out of it.
She's like oh, this is what itis.
It's like oh, this is what itis.
Very like, this is what it is.
And so I was like okay, um, Ishould add to just a point.
Um, for context, for people Iam definitely an extrovert.
Um, so just a differencebetween Sharice and I.
Amber (35:44):
I was like like well, just in my head, I can
understand having veryprotective parents and them
wanting to like basically keepyou in their little safe bubble.
But I love that your parentswere also very informative.
They wanted you to know, theywanted you to be informed, so
that way, when they finally didlet you out of the bubble to be
(36:06):
able to go and experience theworld that's around you, which
is to me, I kind of want to talkabout how that has kind of
evolved, because I knowWednesday you were talking about
like you started dating whenyou were in college.
So I want you to kind ofcompare that time to now.
And for Charisse you've talkeda lot about back when you were
(36:28):
Wednesday's age, dating was thisway.
So if you could compare kind ofback when you were Wednesday's
age to now and just kind of giveus a little bit insight about
how dating has changed as you'veaged.
Sherice (36:40):
For me, dating has changed in a way that there are
more possibilities for dating.
They're not good possibilities,let me be very clear.
They are not good possibilitiescurrently I am an optimist, so
they have to get better, becauseyou can't fall off the floor
(37:02):
but I think that there are moreoptions in terms of availability
.
You can go online and you cango meet people out.
I've built a community offriends with different interests
and so they say, oh, I havethis person and so they might
(37:26):
introduce me to somebody personand you know, and so they might
introduce me to somebody, and soyou know.
So in that way, dating haschanged.
Where I think my possibilitieswere very limited, we're in a
very rural state where I can'tjust and I don't drive, so I
have to rely on transportation.
So my places that I can go isvery limited, which can be
frustrating.
(37:46):
But that's why I think onlinedating is so great, because I
can go anywhere.
Wensday (37:53):
Basically, I would say for me and dating as I've gotten
older has been easier in someways and harder, and I'll kind
of explain.
I'll start with the morenegative, the harder.
You know, in college you'rearound so many more people in
person and so it's just, youknow, numbers game.
(38:13):
It's easier to meet people.
Less people are already withpeople and so, you know, as you
get older I mentioned it itfeels like and while not
everyone is, it feels likeeveryone's with someone, married
, things like that, and so Ithink that makes it harder.
I think for me, somebody'sdating has gotten easier because
, compared to when I was 20, 21,that age, I have grown a lot in
(38:37):
my confidence and very securein who I am and also what I want
out of someone and what I'mlooking for, and so I think
that's helpful.
I think when you really knowyourself well and your values,
like know what you're lookingfor in a relationship, I think
that can kind of help with thenoise of all of these options,
(38:59):
especially when you're on onlinedating apps or even meeting
people in person.
So I think it's gotten harderin some respects and easier in
other respects.
And then, like we were kind oftalking about earlier, with the
age thing.
I think the older I've gotten,then men in their late 30s.
It's not odd for me to date menin their late 30s now, and I
(39:20):
think that's helped.
Being older and then havingolder men as a viable option,
that doesn't feel weird to me.
Amber (39:28):
so I'm gonna get off on a sidetrack here a little bit
only because I, just for my ownpersonal interest, I just wonder
have you because I know we allhave our trusted group of
friends have your friends everset y'all up on blind dates and
if so, how did that go?
Wensday (39:48):
I try to.
I ask my friends all the time,all the time Please let me up
with someone you know.
And they're like nope, youwould say no to this guy.
For this reason I wouldn't wantmy friend to be this guy.
I'm like so you're telling meyou're a boyfriend or husband
and I have one good man friendthat's single.
And they're like nope, they'reall, they're all with someone or
they're all terrible and youdeserve better.
(40:09):
And I'm like okay, well, so Iguess I'll just be single
forever.
But I try, but no one, no onewants to.
And they're like no, thank you,I'm good.
So they just try to give mesuggestions of like where I can
meet people.
And then a lot of times, a lotof times I could just get I'm so
(40:29):
glad I met someone, because Icouldn't do this.
I would just be single if Iwere you too, because I couldn't
do this dating scene right now.
So, yeah, my friendsunfortunately haven't been very
helpful on that front.
They will let me call them inrants about dating, but yeah,
they haven't been so helpfulwith helping me actually find
someone.
Sherice (40:49):
I am in the exact same boat as Wednesday.
My friends are like the peopleI know are terrible or they're
taken or you know something likethat, and they're like now you
can call and complain aboutdating.
You can definitely.
That's cool, you know.
I call and talk to them and saywe rant and, you know, bemoan
(41:13):
about dating all the time.
And so there is this thing whereI think a lot of my friends I
think it's that they're soprotective of me and they know
what I will stand for I thinkthey're afraid to send me out
there with people that they knowthey're like I want you to
(41:33):
continue being my friend andthese people are horrible.
Or I know you won't take anystuff, and so you know this guy
is not going to be what you'relooking for.
And uh, or this guy is marriedor they know something bad about
that friend, and I'm like, no,and I'm like he does, you know.
So they're all like, just no,just go do this or go do that,
(41:56):
and I'll ask them for advice andthings like that, and they will
give me good advice and fulldisclosure.
I don't set people up myfriends up either, for the exact
same reason.
So I don't set them up either.
So it's not that it's notone-sided.
Wensday (42:12):
I will also say just a disclaimer with everything I
said so far.
I do not consider myself apicky person.
I have standards and what I,what I'm looking for, I feel
like, is everything that I have.
So I feel like I just talkedabout, like you know, how
terrible the dating scene is andall these things, and I really
I will say I promise, like Ijust have standards and I think
(42:34):
people disabilities, like allpeople, should have standards.
You can have standards and knowwhat you want and know your
worth and if they don't meetthat then got to move on to the
next one what you want and knowyour worth and if they don't
meet that, then got to move onto the next one.
Sherice (42:45):
I, on the other hand, am picky.
I have I've dated enough whereI know what I don't want and
what I do want and I'm onlygoing to go for that.
I'm not going to say he's agreat guy, but you know he's a
great guy, but you know so I amvery picky and I won't settle
for anything less than what Iwant.
(43:06):
You know I'd rather be alonethan unhappy.
So I am very picky to a faultalmost.
You know my friends like well,who do you want to meet?
Who do you want to date Jesus?
I'm like no, he doesn't have acar.
Wensday (43:22):
So I don't think that's picky though I don't think
that's being picky.
I think that's just knowingwhat you want and that's it.
I think that is perfectlyacceptable and not being picky.
Sherice (43:32):
And see, I do too, and you know yeah.
Jaime (43:37):
No, I mean, I think it's super great to have standards,
you know, but sometimes for somepeople I feel like the bar is
just so low and they still can'tmeet those.
Have standards, you know, butsometimes for some people I feel
like the bar is just so low andthey still can't meet those
basic standards, you know.
So it's super annoying, it'ssuper challenging, but it
actually brings me to my nextfavorite topic red flags and
dating, because I know we can goon for a while about some red
flags.
What are some of y'all's like?
(43:57):
You know, big red flags whenyou guys were first starting to
talk to people or meeting peoplefor the first time.
Sherice (44:03):
Well, for me we talked about the disability fetish.
People who have the disabilityfetish that's huge red flag.
That's always job one Lookingout for.
That is because it's just weird.
Another red flag is when I feelthat someone feels like they're
doing me a favor or that they'retrying to take care of me.
(44:27):
They see me as a person thatneeds to be taken care of and I
do want to be provided for andall of that, but not in the way
of I'm a child, I'm helpless orsomething like that.
But as I am a partner, let metake care of you and you take
care of me in a mutual way.
So when I feel like someonejust wants to do everything for
(44:48):
me and just have me kind ofcarted around, those are huge
red flags for me, because Idon't want them to think of me
that way and it's like helpless.
So that's a red flag.
And also it's a red flag when,like someone is like I don't
(45:12):
know they, they, they see me asthis charity case or they see me
as, like I said, someone to betaken care of, or they feel like
my standards should be so lowthat they can just do anything
and I'm just going to be okaywith it.
Those are often red flags and Idon't meet people in clubs
(45:38):
because if you want to knowabout the dating cesspool, a
club is horrible and I don't gothere.
There's just red flags just allover the place, so I do stay
away from that.
Wensday (45:53):
I agree with everything Charisse said.
Also, I don't know if this is ared flag on myself, but when
someone's too interested toofast, I'm like, oh, I don't know
, you don't know me that.
Well, please, too much, toomuch.
So when someone's too nice, Ialways am like, oh, I don't know
how I feel about that.
Uh, but you could, it could bemeaning to think things through,
(46:14):
but I just too strong, too toofast is is something that I red
flag for me.
Sherice (46:23):
That's a good one.
When they're too nice and theytry to love bomb you or
something like that, that's ahuge red flag.
Love bombing, you know.
And then when, then I'm reallylet down.
When it all stops, you know,and it's like I got all this,
you know so.
When they go too much too fastof affection or whatever I'm
(46:43):
like, so you know, if's like Igot all this, you know so.
Amber (46:43):
When they go too much, too fast of affection or
whatever I'm like, so you know,if they start love bombing me,
that's a huge red flag soCharisse was just talking about
how, with the love bombingcoming at her, and then it just
suddenly stops it like it canfeel a little bit.
To me it seemed like arejection, and I know Wednesday
was talking about ghostingearlier.
So how do y'all handle?
(47:04):
Like rejection or heartbreak?
Wensday (47:08):
Like anyone else without a disability.
Call a friend, say somecolorful language to them to get
your anchor out.
Sherice (47:21):
Ice cream, a good movie , a nap you know all those
things, retail therapy, all thethings you know.
It's just, we handle heartbreakand rejection just like
everyone else.
It's not our disability is isnot going to make us handle it
different.
It is, I will say, for me morepainful when I know I'm getting
(47:41):
rejected purely on the fact thatI have a disability.
That makes it harder, but I geta rejection and heartbreak just
like anybody else, you know.
Wensday (47:54):
I want to expand a little on what Sharice said.
I think in some ways, if Ithink it's a rejection because
of my disability, it's reallyhard to not let the societal um,
views and thoughts creep in, umand and it's really difficult
again lack of representationthat really still exists and
(48:14):
like, oh, is it?
You know, is this an issue?
Or you know, it's really hardnot to go to that place.
I will say at the same time,because of my disability, other
conditions I have and stuff,I've had a lot of surgeries,
I've had a lot of, I've gonethrough a lot in my 30 years and
so, like a boy saying, I don'tlike you, it's not like the
worst thing that's happened tome, and so I think in some ways
(48:35):
I'm like, okay, whatever, on tothe next.
You weren't good enough anyway.
Amber (48:39):
And that's one of the reasons I wanted to ask that
question is because you knowthat is a standard dating
question and I just wantedpeople to take a moment and
reflect on the fact that we allhandle rejection and heartbreak
pretty much the same way.
I mean, I'm pretty much leaningmore towards like the retail
therapy that Sharice was talkingabout, but I'm pretty sure my
(49:00):
co-host, Jamie, may handle alittle different way, but we all
handle it pretty much in thesame way.
Jaime (49:06):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean definitely.
You know, like a good girls'night with some of your friends,
you know good movie, comfy PJs,and you can kind of, you know,
just have, you know the spicylanguage, and then you know some
tears of B&B and it all worksout, and you know, you just kind
of say thank you next and youmove on.
So on with that.
How would you guys, or whatwould you guys, tell someone
(49:27):
with a disability who is wantingto get out?
There's somebody who is wantingto start dating.
Sherice (49:33):
You know.
I would just tell them knowyour standards, know your worth
and know that if a personrejects you because of your
disability or you know somethinglike that, they weren't meant
for you and you don't want thatin your life anyway.
But I would just tell them knowyour worth, Don't limit
(49:58):
yourself to you know I'm onlygoing to date this type of
person or that type of personyou know.
Just go with your standards.
Don't limit your standards,because dating is hard.
Dating is hard In your 40s.
Dating without a disability ishard.
Dating with a disability isreally hard, you know.
(50:20):
But don't lower your standardsbecause you're not going to.
What's going to end uphappening is you're not going to
get what you want and so getwhat you want.
It's okay to be alone and getyou some great friends, like I
have, and find your people andgo that way.
Wensday (50:41):
I think, yeah, dating sucks.
I don't know if everyone heardthat interjection.
I said earlier Dating sucks.
I think dating sucks foreveryone.
What I see people online saylike dating's so fun.
I'm like what are you doing?
How is dating for you?
I would like that.
I just like to skip to therelationship part, but I would
echo what Sheree says.
(51:02):
I think know your worth.
You are worth worthy of beingloved, um and cared for.
Uh, and while it might seemlike it, not everyone is again,
not everyone's with someone.
Um, and what you see on socialmedia, a lot of it's fake.
A lot of it's fake.
It is not real life.
Not everyone is happy andthrilled and all of these things
(51:23):
.
You have no idea what's goingon behind closed doors.
I think it's important to keepthat in mind.
And, yeah, having good friendsand I think, I think having fans
is important and I think, whileyou know we want people to have
(51:45):
an open mind and not makeassumptions about us, I think
it's important to have you knowto be, to have an open mind when
you're dating two to somedegree as well.
Have those standards and witheverything else outside of those
standards, you know beingwilling to explore and you know
you might not end up withsomeone who you thought was your
like quote-unquote type to youknow, just kind of really, you
know, try differentpersonalities and people and
have your core standards andthen everything else.
(52:05):
Just see, you know what's outthere and sometimes dating is
just awkward.
It just is what it is.
Dating is just awkward andit'll just be a funny story in a
few years.
Like you know it.
Just you know you'll make itthrough.
Sherice (52:17):
Yeah, you'll laugh about it.
You won't laugh about it now,but one day you'll laugh about
it.
It's not going to be funny now.
I'm telling you now, it's notfunny now, but you will laugh
about it later.
Amber (52:27):
Y'all have just given like just all the love and
empowerment, and that's exactlywhat I think people need in the
dating environment.
I agree it is a struggle foreverybody and dating can be good
at sometimes and bad at others.
So, charise, this question isgonna be directed just for you,
(52:48):
okay.
So what dating advice would yougive someone who's in
wednesday's age group?
Just something that you wouldjust absolutely want them to
know that you haven't alreadykind of given us.
But if you could go back intime and we're Wednesday's age,
what is something that you wouldwant to know then?
Sherice (53:08):
I think that I the one thing I wish I had been more
fully into myself in terms of mydisability, empowerment and
knowing that.
You know, my disability is apiece of me and it's a great
piece of me, but it's not theonly part of me, and if someone
(53:28):
doesn't like that, can't acceptthat, then pound sand.
You know, I wished I'd haveknown that.
I wished I'd have also knownthat I don't have to, because I
was in a relationship when I wasa little younger than Wednesday
for a long time and I was withthat person after the expiration
(53:49):
of the relationship, but I kepthold to that person because
they were comfortable and Ididn't know if I would be in a
relationship like that again,and so there is another person
out there for me, and so I thinkthat's what I would have told
my younger self.
Amber (54:10):
I'm over here clapping because I was like I love that
advice Absolutely.
I was like loving yourselffirst and knowing your value
first, Absolutely.
Jaime (54:20):
Okay, and then.
So Wednesday, this question isfor you.
What would you want someone whohas just started dating to know
?
Wensday (54:30):
Again, I echo Sharice and I have similar, different
but similar experiences andadvice.
I think knowing your worth isreally important.
I think I would want people toknow that it's okay if dating
isn't fun always, and that it'sokay to be sad sometimes.
(54:51):
It's okay to feel thatloneliness and to be sad about
it sometimes, and then it's timeto pull yourself back up and
keep going.
I think you need to be cautiousfor so many reasons, but I
think optimism is also important.
Have that good group of friendsand, yeah, never, never settle.
(55:13):
It's okay to feel lonely andalso be choosy, and I think
really also knowing yourself isimportant as well.
Amber (55:21):
Over here in tears now.
I was like this has just been awonderful and informative
conversation and I would love togive you the opportunity Is
there anything that you thinkshould be mentioned in this
podcast to let the audience knowabout dating with disabilities
that you think I may have notasked, or that you just want to
kind of leave our audience witha few words of wisdom, like you
(55:45):
haven't just dropped some goldennuggets on us this whole time.
Is there anything else youwould like to say?
Sherice (55:51):
You're not alone.
Yeah, you're not alone.
Have fun, go out there, justhave fun.
Sometimes.
It's not always about findingyour person.
Dating is a process.
Go have fun, go on dates, youknow, and just have a good time.
You know, don't every personyou date is not your person.
Don't look for every datingexperience that that's your
(56:13):
person.
That may be the end goal, butthat relationship, that date,
could be an experience that youneed to learn and go through to
find and be prepared for yourperson.
So that's what I would say.
Wensday (56:27):
Yeah, dating doesn't have to be serious, Just be fun
free food, meeting new people.
Amber (56:33):
Absolutely.
I think knowing yourself andmeeting new people and just
living the life you want to liveis the best way we could end
this podcast.
So I want to thank you both forcoming here and sharing your
words of wisdom, just sharingyour insight and your personal
experiences.
I appreciate you opening up andbeing honest with us and having
(56:54):
this conversation that I thinkit was just lovely to have, like
we're just all sitting togethersipping some tea.
I also want to thank Jamie, myco-host, for joining us today
and asking additional questionsand providing her insight.
And then, of course, as always,thank you to our audience for
listening in.
Thank you for joining us onincluding you.
(57:16):
We hope today's conversation hassparked ideas, offered guidance
or inspired you to take actionin your own life and community
At Disability Rights.
Sparked ideas, offered guidanceor inspired you to take action
in your own life and community.
At Disability Rights, webelieve advocacy isn't always
about sweeping reforms.
It's about the small everydayactions like asking the right
questions, standing up whensomething feels wrong or helping
(57:37):
to create a space whereeveryone feels included.
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(57:58):
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(58:18):
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(00:22):
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(00:44):
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(01:06):
, meaningful changes can make abig difference.
Let's dive in.
Thank you all for joining ustoday.
I'm your host, amber Quaid, andwe're going to talk about
dating with disabilities, butfirst I want to let y'all know I
have a co-host here with metoday.
Say hi, jamie, hi guys, thanksfor tuning in.
And we also have two amazingspecial guests with us today.
(01:29):
We're going to first start withWednesday and then move to
Cherise, if y'all want to take amoment and introduce yourselves
.
Wensday (01:36):
Hi.
Yes, Thank you for having me.
My name is Wednesday Kramer.
No, I was not born on Wednesday.
I get that all the time.
My name comes from the Adamsfamily.
I work here at DisabilityRights Arkansas as a disability
employment advocate.
I'm really excited for today'sconversation on dating with a
disability.
I am for some context with myanswer.
I am 29.
(01:57):
I will be 30 this year, so thatdefinitely really lends itself
to how I view this topic and,yeah, I'm excited for today.
Sherice (02:08):
Hello, I am Cherise Smith.
I have been with DisabilityRights Arkansas for over a year.
I am their special projectcoordinator.
I have been a disabilityadvocate for over 20 years.
I am 45 years old and I havelived experience with
(02:29):
disabilities.
I have spina bifida.
Wensday (02:33):
Oh, yes, I should have added too I also was born with
spina bifida, so I used awheelchair my whole life, which
adds to the dating arena whichadds to the dating arena.
Amber (02:48):
Well, thank you both for sharing that and for talking
with us today.
As you notice, they saidthey're all part of Disability
Rights Arkansas.
We all work together and sothis is going to make for a
lovely casual conversation.
But, in case you were alsowondering, they mentioned their
ages, and it's because we wantedto give different perspectives
and different ideas about datingdisabilities.
(03:10):
So let's kind of just diveright in Basically, with
February having people thinkabout love, valentine's Day, we
thought it would be the perfecttime to have a casual
conversation about dating with adisability, and I really can't
wait to see what y'all have tosay on the topic.
So let's start with how do youapproach dating?
Sherice (03:32):
My approach to dating has evolved over the years.
Now it's more about onlinedating.
I have no aspirations for beingmarried or children.
I'm happy being, you know, justcasual dating.
So I look at it as just anactivity to do and it just
(03:57):
depends.
Everything is different now.
You know it used to be.
You could do one-on-oneconnections, but now, with
online dating, that's how I domost of my dating so my approach
to dating has definitelyevolved.
Wensday (04:11):
I know we're going to touch on online dating and
dating apps in a minute, which Ihave plenty to say about that,
um, but you know I did startwith that in my early 20s, even
recently, but it's a new yearand at the end of last year I
deleted all my dating apps.
We'll see if I go back to themor not at some point, but I
really wanted to give myselfthis year to try to date in the
(04:35):
wild is what I like to say.
Put myself out there, go tomore events Our weather hasn't
been like the best recently butreally trying to find different
places to meet people and reallyput myself out there, I think
I'm going to start a challengewhere, at least once a month, I
have to find an event wherethere could be plenty of single
(04:56):
people around my age to go, and,yeah, and just put myself out
there, meet people in person,and you know see how that works.
Just put myself out there, meetpeople in person and, and you
know see how that works, Iactually, uh, I had a date
somewhat recently and I met thatperson, um, through, uh,
in-person activity, um so yeah,and that brings us onto our next
(05:22):
question.
Jaime (05:22):
So what are y'all's thoughts on dating apps and
online dating, and pros and cons, for sure, of both of them?
Sherice (05:27):
Online dating.
It definitely has its benefits.
Number one it's reallyaccessible for a person with a
disability.
I don't have to leave my houseto meet people.
I can do that initial, gettingto know you online through video
chats and things of that naturebefore going on an actual date.
(05:48):
So it's made dating definitelymore accessible and it's widened
my choices.
The only problem is the choicesare horrible.
So there is that.
So there is that.
(06:28):
And the con is, you knoweverybody, there's all these
tips.
That is one of the uh cons andum.
Also, you know, one of thethings I didn't like about is
Wednesday.
Put it, meeting people out in awhile is getting their gut
reaction to my disability andnot having to have that awkward
conversation because I use awheelchair and my disability is
(06:50):
indeed very visible.
So when I meet someone, I knowtheir first reaction says it all
, and so that is the thing.
But dating, you know, datingwith apps is good because you
get to know people, you get totalk to people and I've even met
people who I've become friendswith.
(07:10):
So even if I didn't get a date,I did get some friends and that
was kind of nice to just tohave some male companionship to
talk you know, I have to say Iagree with a lot, pretty much
everything Sharice said.
Wensday (07:23):
Although, sharice, I don't know what dating apps
you're on that like then equalgood friendships, so I don't
know how to talk after thisabout that.
I would say you know again apro, the accessibility you know
kind of I don't know what wordto use other than like vet.
Like you know, go throughpeople.
Not really waste a lot of timeif you're decide that you're not
(07:44):
very compatible.
Through people, not reallywaste a lot of time if you're
decide that you're not verycompatible.
Um, I think a con um, againlike what Sheree said, is, uh,
you don't necessarily get theirimmediate real reaction,
especially being someone in awheelchair, with a disability.
Um, and in person, I find thatit's easier for people to get to
know me quicker and not justmake a whole lot of as many
(08:07):
assumptions as they can on adating profile.
And while dating profiles doprovide you a lot of choices, I
actually have found it prettyexhausting and honestly
discouraging that there are allthese people out there and
(08:27):
honestly discouraging that thereare all these people out there
but none of them are a match, Iguess you'll say, or a good fit.
And yeah, I've seen all thoselike dating tips and what to put
in your profile, what picturesyou need, what she'd write in
your bio, all of this otherstuff, and it just feels like it
becomes almost like this gameand if you swipe on like 10
(08:50):
people and you don't get asingle person swiping back on
you, it's hard.
You know, I've worked on mycomments a lot over the years
but it's hard to not get a hitto a confidence from that and I
think in person it's easier tofeel the vibes in to.
Yeah, I also will say withdating apps, I think while you
(09:13):
can vet people and decide youknow basic things if you're
interested or not.
For me I am someone that for meit very much depends on like
how they are in person and theirmuch depends on like how they
are in person and theirpersonality and like how they
speak and speak to others.
And I think that's so hard totell on an app and I think
there's some people that youknow I wouldn't necessarily like
(09:33):
typically be someone I'm likeattracted to, but I meet them in
person, their personalityreally shines and then you know
that might be someone to beinterested in that I that I
honestly probably want to beinterested on.
If I just saw on their datingprofile Also.
I mean, I don't see women'sprofiles but men's profiles.
They need some work and theythey usually don't have enough
(09:54):
information, and so I'm justlike how am I supposed to
determine anything based on this?
Amber (09:59):
Well, thank you both for sharing things I didn't even
think about.
When it comes especially datingapps versus in person, but in
talking about like videoconferencing or meeting in
person, how soon would youdisclose your disability?
Sherice (10:16):
Well for me, I will be perfectly honest, when I was
Wednesday's age, my confidencein the opposite sex wasn't great
, so it did take me a littlelonger to disclose my disability
, because I wasn't sure how theywould react and people in that
(10:37):
age group are a little lessmature and so you never knew,
kind of, what you were going toget.
And unfortunately, because Idid take so long to disclose,
one time I had a really bad aguy that had a really bad
reaction and it was hurtful andI was like, well, I'm just going
to be done with that and I'mjust going to tell them up front
(11:00):
.
It's going to be one of thefirst things I say and if they
like it, they like it, and ifthey don't, they like it, and if
they don't, they don't.
And I'm just going to keep itmoving.
And also, I've embraced mydisability much more as I've
gotten older and I'm very proudof my disability, where I don't
think I was necessarily.
I think I was always proud, butI didn't think people would be
(11:23):
as accepting as they are now.
I think the growth of peoplewith disabilities being more
visible and people withdisabilities being seen on
different platforms and thingslike that has made people more
accepting than they were, youknow, when I was Wednesday's age
and I think that was also partof the problem is that we just
(11:45):
were not seen as much as we arenow.
It wasn't as talked about.
So now I tell immediately likeI have a disability, like it,
love it, whatever's not reallymy problem, and if a person can
accept that then that's not theperson I really need to be with
anyway.
Wensday (12:04):
Do you guys ever mature ?
You did say that.
I almost interjected.
I was like do you guys evermature, though I think I think
it might be.
I think the older I get, Ithink guys are going to mature
and this hasn't happened yet,but I'm hopeful that maybe it
will eventually happen.
But I so when I first started ondating apps, I was I don't know
(12:28):
20, 21.
I was young, I'm still anundergrad, and I think the first
dating app I was on firstprofile I ever made, because
I've been on and off themthroughout the years.
That's why I said earlier like,oh, who knows if I'll retab
with them at some point, but I'mreally, really trying to do
this year a year without them.
But when I made my first datingprofile, I just didn't have any
(12:50):
good, I think, pictures withouta lot of friends in it, where
you really could see mywheelchair and I don't know.
I just think you know it's notmy, you know it's not the only
interesting thing about me.
There's plenty of otherinteresting things about me that
don't have to do with mydisability too, um, and me as a
person, and so I just didn't andI just have a picture.
I was like I'm just gonna putthese pictures up, and I had
been talking to someone and, um,it was just a few messages and
(13:11):
then, um, we I think we're hadjust hung out with some friends,
and so we were both sendingpictures to each other, and
those pictures you could clearlysee I'm in a wheelchair and it
wasn't like I was going to hideanything.
If we actually want to date,but again, this was like one of
our like first conversationsever, um, and as soon as in a
picture, uh, not a single othermessage just deleted me, um, and
(13:34):
so I was like, oh well, so youknow, I feel like there's
obvious, only one obvious reasonwhy you would be doing that.
And so after that, like, I tooksome, um, you know, cute
pictures, pictures where you canclearly see I was disabled, and
I make sure I have, anytime I'mdating apps, several on my
profile, um, just so it's clear.
Uh, I don't bring it up reallyever, though, when I'm talking
(13:55):
to guys, I feel like you know,um, it's on my dating profile,
like you'll, you know, it's onthere for you to see.
Um, now, of course, I may notbring up my disability, but I've
definitely had my fair share ofmen bring up my disability.
I get the.
(14:17):
I've gotten several reallyinteresting messages.
I think you know some.
I uh, yeah, I I um.
A lot of times, depending onpeople's reaction and questions,
they'll get deleted.
I get a lot of uh.
I've gotten several questionsabout how I would um interact
(14:40):
with them in various uh,personal ways, ways.
I guess you could say, um, andit's just so interesting me that
that would be your first lineon a dating app, um, so you know
it's, it's been interesting andand I don't tend to get that
really in person, which is alsowhy I've enjoyed in-person
interactions at least people inperson have a little more
(15:02):
decorum, I guess you would say,and have a bit more of a filter.
Sherice (15:07):
So yeah, Something Wednesday said that was
interesting and something thatmade me think about is you know,
one of the negatives aboutshowing your disability right
away is you either get deletedor you get a litany of questions
that has nothing to do with youas a person.
They want to know about yoursexuality and how that works.
(15:28):
They ask really stupidquestions that make no sense and
then they feel like they couldbe like the most invasive and
that that's okay and they cansay ask you the most personal of
questions after they just metyou.
They know nothing about you sobecause of your disability, they
feel like that gives them aright to ask you whatever they
(15:50):
want and nothing is off limits,nothing is too personal or
anything to ask.
Wensday (15:57):
And I just have to say, if I'm on a dating app, I think
some things should just beobvious to some degree.
You know, I just think somesomething don't need to be asked
.
Yes, if I get back in thedating app eventually again or
hopefully I don't have to, butif I do eventually get back on
them, I can't wait for, with theconfidence I have now, what I
(16:21):
know now.
I can't wait for some responsesthat I'm planning on sending,
depending on what I get asked,Because I have some really
creative responses now for whatI've previously been told and
that's exactly what I was justthinking from you both.
Amber (16:35):
I was like I'm pretty sure y'all have some snappy
comebacks for just ridiculousquestions that'll be asked.
Like nobody toleratesridiculous questions, I mean,
there's times people just walkoff.
So why people think it'sappropriate in any situation is
just beyond me.
Jaime (16:51):
Yeah, definitely blows my mind for sure.
So I guess that kind of goesalso to our next kind of topic
too.
So dating with a disability howunique it is, how different it
is, you know, sometimes comparedto people who don't have one.
Sherice (17:04):
Well, you know, it's unique in a way that you know,
when I date a guy, they're like,oh, I want to take you
somewhere.
And it's a surprise.
I'm like, no, I can't dosurprises, I can't afford
surprises.
I need to know exactly wherewe're going, because I need to
know if it's accessible.
Well, I checked.
Well, you don't have adisability, Trust me.
(17:24):
You didn't check well enough.
Or, trust me, they told yousome line or told you something,
or you probably just looked ona website and said it was
accessible and I can assure you.
You know, just let me check.
And that's one of the thingsthat's like unique.
And also the invasive questions.
And it's like you don't evendude, you don't even like know
(17:47):
me and how can you ask me aboutsex or my ability to have
children?
Like that's after hello andwhat's your name.
And I mean, do you ask anybodyelse those questions when you
first meet them?
And I'm almost positive youdon't.
So that's unique.
And also there's this thingwhere some of them are trying to
(18:12):
be so cool with it that they goout of their way to like show
that they're really cool withyou having a disability.
That like.
I had an experience where therewas like someone in a parking
spot spot, accessible parkingspot that did not need it, and
he wanted to talk to the manager, he wanted to file a complaint.
He was like I was like that islike a first class problem,
(18:35):
let's react, let's just relax alittle bit.
I'm not excited about it either, but there's no need for going
to have a World War III over aparking spot.
Then there's these people thathave disability fetishes.
(18:56):
That's a person who fetishizespeople with disabilities and
they're called devotism.
They go for people who havedisabilities and it is weird.
It is so weird and you couldpick it up almost immediately
after about five minutes ofconversation, because they'll
(19:18):
tell you how they've dated.
You know, five people with adisability.
And dating with a person with adisability, unless you're in
that world, is unique.
You know, not a lot of peoplehave dated more than one or two
people with a disability if theydon't have a disability
themselves.
So if they tell me, oh, I'vedated one person with death, one
(19:38):
person was the amputee, oneperson was in a wheelchair, one
person you know was black, I'mlike, okay, you have a problem,
it was very nice to meet you,but I think I'm done here, and
so those kinds of things areunique.
(20:00):
And then you also get where youhave to skirt this fine line of
telling them about yourdisability without making it
like a medical conversation andkeeping it casual and keeping it
common sense.
I have a disability, I use awheelchair.
I'm paralyzed from the waistdown so I need my wheelchair and
I can't go anywhere without it.
I sometimes have spasms,whatever.
It is those common sense thingsthat you need to tell them, but
(20:24):
you don't need to give them amedical history of what spina
bifida is and how it affects youand all of that.
You don't need to go into allof that because that number one,
that's not important to thedating experience.
And number two, it's not sexy.
Nothing about a medicalconversation is sexy, and if it
is, you should seek professionalhelp.
Wensday (20:44):
I would also say something that I didn't really
hear Charisse mention, but Iknow Charisse and I have talked
about dating a lot outside ofthis conversation too.
So our experiences is not justthe dating experience for us and
the people we're dating orinterested in dating or anything
like that, but other peoplearound interested in dating or
(21:08):
you know anything like that, butother people around.
So, like you know I'm sureSharice is I'm definitely used
to people staring at me.
Tis my life.
I don't really care what otherpeople think at this point.
I think being disabled, youkind of have to have a thick
skin, but you know, someone elsemight not be used to that.
I will also say I've gottensome and I think, well, I don't
even know what I want to saythis Well-meaning I don't know
(21:28):
if they're well-meaning commentsabout people I've gone out with
.
I remember in college I went asa friend with a guy to a
sorority function and a coupleweeks later I was at an event
and a girl came up to me who Ikind of knew, but I didn't say
we were close or anything.
And a girl came up to me who Ikind of knew, but I didn't say
(21:52):
we were close or anything.
And she was like, oh, I saw youwent with the guy's name to
this event.
And I was like, oh yeah, it wasa lot of fun.
You know, whatever you'd say,and she goes oh yeah, that's
just so great that he went withyou.
He just goes like he just lovesgoing with everyone.
And I don't think I knew atthat moment I was like 20, I was
20 at this point and I was likeI didn't even know what to say.
(22:12):
And I was with a friend and andthey were like, no, he's really
busy, like I think you knowthey're friends and he wanted to
go with her.
Uh, and now I would have a uh,more of a response to that
individual if I, if somethinglike that happened to me again.
But I just think it's sointeresting that people think
that it's valiant or someone's ahero or such a great guy if
(22:34):
they go out with me.
I had other people tell me like,oh, you just need a really
special guy.
And I'm like, well, I hope Idon't just date someone that's
not special.
I do want someone special.
Doesn't everyone want to bewith someone special?
I just think it's sointeresting those responses I
get.
You know, I bring and I've hadto do a lot of work on myself
and, like Therese mentioned, Ithink even when I grew up,
(22:55):
there's not a lot ofrepresentation of people with
disabilities in general, letalone dating, and I've had to
work on myself a lot and beconfident but, dang like I put a
lot to the table.
Who's lucky to date me?
And I just I think it's soweird the comments and questions
and things I've gotten and thatother people with disabilities
(23:18):
get related to dating.
And I also have some questionstoo about, well, have you tried
dating someone with a disability?
Like, well, if I met someonewith a disability and I was
vibing with them and they askedme out, I would say yes, like
it's just not like a, oh, I'mjust going to go search it.
Like you know, I live in apretty rural state.
There's not that many peoplehere.
There's only so many people ingeneral my age, so I'm not going
(23:39):
to just be like, let me justfind someone that you know is
exactly like me in every way.
I just also think that's kindof weird when I get those
questions too.
Sherice (23:49):
You know, that's something that someone actually
said to me was why don't you?
It would be so much easier ifyou just dated a person with a
disability.
Wouldn't your life be so mucheasier?
And I'm like, dating is hardand if I found the person with a
disability who I vibe with,sure, but I'm not gonna limit
myself, because it makes otherpeople feel better and they're
(24:12):
like oh, it's so good of thisperson to take you out, so he's
the one that's lucky.
I'm not lucky, he's lucky thatI chose him.
Because I chose him, he didn'tchoose me.
I was born snarky, so thathelps helps.
Wensday (24:27):
I was just going to add to I've seen some online
discourse related to dating withdisability and I've even seen
on like threads and stuff wherepeople are like, oh, I'm
interested in someone with adisability, but you know how
would I need to help them?
Or you know what would be myresponsibilities and I'm like I
can make it over 30 years of mylife without you.
Clearly don't.
I don't need your assistanceand when that time conversation
(24:49):
comes, we'll have thatconversation.
But no need to worry about, onthe before the first date, what
I might need.
Uh, all assistance with.
I've made it through lifewithout you.
Amber (24:56):
I think I'm okay what both of y'all said.
I was like I don't know if yousaw us over here trying not to
interrupt y'all talking, but wewere clapping and we were like
whoa, this is just like spot on.
This is like I think peoplereally need to hear that and
understand exactly what you bothjust brought to light, which so
I'm going to kind of like breakit up a little bit here, only
(25:18):
because I'm interested really atthis point is how is dating
going based on your age group?
Because I know we talked aboutage earlier at the beginning and
y'all have a few years inbetween y'all, so it's kind of a
different experience in today'sday and age.
So how has dating been goingbased on your particular age
group?
Sherice (25:40):
The pickings are slim in my age group because most
people are in their 40s, areusually married right or want to
get married, and I, as Iexpressed earlier, I have no
interest in that.
So you know, most of themeither are and so it's the the
pickings are.
If they're slim when I was inmy 20s, they're extra slim now.
Uh, but people in my age groupare much more or at least the
(26:06):
guys that I've come across aremuch more mature and accepting
of my disability.
It's not as much as a big dealas it was when I was younger.
You know, they still want toknow about personal things,
about sex and things like that.
You know, because they're menand but they don't, they don't
focus on it in as much.
In a way that's weird and Ithink that's because as you age,
(26:31):
things start happening to yourbody and you slow down and you
start having health conditionsand things like that.
If you're in your 40s and youdon't have at least one
medication you're taking, you'redoing really great.
So I think that that's helpfulbecause of the men in my age
(26:51):
group.
But a lot of older peoplebecause I do tend to date older
are not tech savvy, so onlinedating is hard and older people
are traditionalists, right.
So go meet somebody out in thewild and don't get offline.
That's not real life, that'snot real people.
(27:11):
So it can be a mixed bag inyour 40s.
It can be something else inyour 40s, when you're 45.
Wensday (27:19):
Yeah, I am in the thick of everyone being married.
It seems like I just want tosay too, for those listening to
this not everyone is married,not everyone's found their
person.
It might feel like it,definitely can feel like it, but
not everyone is.
But I think it's interestingwhat Sheree said about how you
(27:41):
know, men do mature a little bitas they get older and I do find
I don't know if I want to saybetter luck, but I mean really
better luck in more genuine,engaging conversations with men
that are older.
I don't really have a lot ofinterest or speak to a lot of
(28:02):
men in their 20s.
Usually it's you know, men thatare, you know, maybe six, ten
years older.
Um is really where I found thatthings get a little bit better.
I guess you would say um andand again, there uh seem to be a
little bit more interested inlike companionship and like
meeting, uh, someone for reasonsother than just like oh, look
(28:24):
who I'm dating, or um, or sexand things like that.
It seems a bit more genuine onother fronts as well.
Sherice (28:32):
I guess I should reframe that and say they're not
more mature.
I think they just care less,maybe because their pickings are
slim too.
So they're like okay, this iswhat we got, let's do this,
we're doing it, we're doing it.
So I think that's also part ofit as well.
Maybe they're not more mature,it's just they care less.
Wensday (28:55):
At a certain age they're like it's all fine, well
, and I also think they'veprobably had more experiences
and clearly, if they're in thedating scene, dating hasn't
really worked for them um longterms and maybe, yeah, they're
more open to other possibilitiesand just like you know, like
let me see, let me you know,their brain is a little bit more
fully developed.
Jaime (29:15):
So when y'all first started showing interest in
dating when you guys wereyounger, how did your parents
react to that, or what was theirkind of you know intro
conversation to dating when youguys were younger?
Sherice (29:26):
Well, my father was not okay with it, and I'm 45 years
old and he's still not okay withit.
He'll never be okay with it.
He's so against it.
Men are horrible.
I explained to him that he'salso a man and he's the only one
that will ever love me,according to him.
So there's that.
My mother, on the other hand, mystepmother, who raised me, was
(29:51):
very much like you need to knowwhat dating is like.
This is what people try to do.
Don't let they will takeadvantage of you.
They will.
You know.
They will try to do anything toget you into bed.
They will.
No, don't let a man treat youKnow your worth.
So my stepmother was very muchabout making sure I was prepared
(30:17):
for dating.
But I later went to go live withmy mother and I didn't even go
to my prom because my mother waslike you're not getting in a
car and you're not going on adate with a guy without us,
without us, you know going withyou and you have a chaperone.
I'm like there's chaperonesthere.
They were like absolutely not.
We don't know what this personwill do, I think also, and then
(30:42):
by the time my sister came along, who's 13 years younger than I
am, she doesn't have adisability but my parents were
like, fine, she can go out withanybody she wants.
I think by the time they got tothe younger ones they were just
tired, anyway, but so it waslike whatever.
But my parents were definitelymore protective.
(31:03):
But my stepmom in particularwas like telling me you need to
be prepared for real life.
She always prepared me for reallife.
She made me work at a young agebecause she thought it was
important that I made my ownmoney and not rely on the
government and people.
She wanted me to have goodgrades and go to school because
(31:26):
she didn't want to limit mypossibilities, because she knew
the world would limit me.
And she also knew with datingthat people were mean and cruel
and she wanted me to be preparedto have thick skin for all of
that.
And now my parents my mom justwants me to have grandchildren,
give her grandchildren.
And my dad still is like no.
Wensday (31:44):
I would say for my parents, particularly my mom, I
think really just had to havethe conversation.
Actually, I should back up andsay I'm an only child so I have
no way to compare you know howmy parents would be with other
children.
The main conversation I thinkthat would be different if my
parents had other children is mymom just, you know, did at a
(32:08):
really young age, appropriately,and then especially a lot in
high school before going tocollege, explain the idea of
like fetishism and thestatistics behind people with
disabilities being sexuallyassaulted compared to those
without disabilities, and sohaving a lot of real life, tough
(32:28):
conversations with me just tomake sure that I was aware and
you know, and careful.
Obviously I think everyoneneeds to be careful, but I think
really making me aware of, likeI said, the statistics, and
then I mean above that I mean myI'm sure my dad also thinks
(32:49):
there's probably not anyonethat's, you know, great enough
for me, um, but I've gone onsome dates and my parents
haven't had a lot to say.
I didn't really date when I wasa teenager at all.
I'm from a small town, um, so Ididn't really date until I
started going to college and andall of that.
So by then my parents basicallyhad the.
You know, he better be a niceguy and he better treat you
(33:10):
right, and I mean you're anadult.
So that really was the onlyconversations we've really had
related to dating.
So yeah, I will say there wasone time I was on a dating app.
I was at home one weekend and Iwas swiping through and my mom
was like what are you doing?
I'm like, oh, look look at who,like look at these men.
(33:32):
And I'm like, wait, why'd yousay no to him?
Wait, why'd you say yes to him?
And I had to explain.
She goes oh, interesting,because you know, that wasn't
really how, that's not how myparents met, and so this is all
very interesting.
So I think she supports mygoing in the wild journey this
year.
Sherice (33:52):
So yeah, I will say that my mother, in particular,
was very much against me goingon a dating app when I was
Wednesday's age because, youknow, you just didn't know what
you were going to get.
(34:12):
You know, and my mother watcheda lot of crime shows when I was
coming up, so everybody was aserial killer or a rapist or
something.
So she was like go outside.
And I was not a person wholiked to go out and meet people
and things like that, because Iam actually very introverted and
don't like to socialize a lot.
And so she was like no, go meetpeople.
And I think now, as time hasevolved, she's much more okay
(34:35):
with me meeting people on online, but she's like go to a public
place.
And also, one thing I wanted tomention is when I first started
mentioning dating my parents mymother, not my dad my mother
talked to me about sexuality andsex and protection and being
(34:59):
very careful, because sheunderstood that I could have
children and nobody needs asingle mother, and so she was
very much about talking aboutprotection.
She's like I can't stop youfrom doing it, you know what it
is and I'm going to give you allthe information.
So she was very sure to give meall the information about sex.
Wensday (35:24):
Yeah, my mom was as well and I think that took you
know the mystery out of it.
She's like oh, this is what itis.
It's like oh, this is what itis.
Very like, this is what it is.
And so I was like okay, um, Ishould add to just a point.
Um, for context, for people Iam definitely an extrovert.
Um, so just a differencebetween Sharice and I.
Amber (35:44):
I was like like well, just in my head, I can
understand having veryprotective parents and them
wanting to like basically keepyou in their little safe bubble.
But I love that your parentswere also very informative.
They wanted you to know, theywanted you to be informed, so
that way, when they finally didlet you out of the bubble to be
(36:06):
able to go and experience theworld that's around you, which
is to me, I kind of want to talkabout how that has kind of
evolved, because I knowWednesday you were talking about
like you started dating whenyou were in college.
So I want you to kind ofcompare that time to now.
And for Charisse you've talkeda lot about back when you were
(36:28):
Wednesday's age, dating was thisway.
So if you could compare kind ofback when you were Wednesday's
age to now and just kind of giveus a little bit insight about
how dating has changed as you'veaged.
Sherice (36:40):
For me, dating has changed in a way that there are
more possibilities for dating.
They're not good possibilities,let me be very clear.
They are not good possibilitiescurrently I am an optimist, so
they have to get better, becauseyou can't fall off the floor
(37:02):
but I think that there are moreoptions in terms of availability
.
You can go online and you cango meet people out.
I've built a community offriends with different interests
and so they say, oh, I havethis person and so they might
(37:26):
introduce me to somebody personand you know, and so they might
introduce me to somebody, and soyou know.
So in that way, dating haschanged.
Where I think my possibilitieswere very limited, we're in a
very rural state where I can'tjust and I don't drive, so I
have to rely on transportation.
So my places that I can go isvery limited, which can be
frustrating.
(37:46):
But that's why I think onlinedating is so great, because I
can go anywhere.
Wensday (37:53):
Basically, I would say for me and dating as I've gotten
older has been easier in someways and harder, and I'll kind
of explain.
I'll start with the morenegative, the harder.
You know, in college you'rearound so many more people in
person and so it's just, youknow, numbers game.
(38:13):
It's easier to meet people.
Less people are already withpeople and so, you know, as you
get older I mentioned it itfeels like and while not
everyone is, it feels likeeveryone's with someone, married
, things like that, and so Ithink that makes it harder.
I think for me, somebody'sdating has gotten easier because
, compared to when I was 20, 21,that age, I have grown a lot in
(38:37):
my confidence and very securein who I am and also what I want
out of someone and what I'mlooking for, and so I think
that's helpful.
I think when you really knowyourself well and your values,
like know what you're lookingfor in a relationship, I think
that can kind of help with thenoise of all of these options,
(38:59):
especially when you're on onlinedating apps or even meeting
people in person.
So I think it's gotten harderin some respects and easier in
other respects.
And then, like we were kind oftalking about earlier, with the
age thing.
I think the older I've gotten,then men in their late 30s.
It's not odd for me to date menin their late 30s now, and I
(39:20):
think that's helped.
Being older and then havingolder men as a viable option,
that doesn't feel weird to me.
Amber (39:28):
so I'm gonna get off on a sidetrack here a little bit
only because I, just for my ownpersonal interest, I just wonder
have you because I know we allhave our trusted group of
friends have your friends everset y'all up on blind dates and
if so, how did that go?
Wensday (39:48):
I try to.
I ask my friends all the time,all the time Please let me up
with someone you know.
And they're like nope, youwould say no to this guy.
For this reason I wouldn't wantmy friend to be this guy.
I'm like so you're telling meyou're a boyfriend or husband
and I have one good man friendthat's single.
And they're like nope, they'reall, they're all with someone or
they're all terrible and youdeserve better.
(40:09):
And I'm like okay, well, so Iguess I'll just be single
forever.
But I try, but no one, no onewants to.
And they're like no, thank you,I'm good.
So they just try to give mesuggestions of like where I can
meet people.
And then a lot of times, a lotof times I could just get I'm so
(40:29):
glad I met someone, because Icouldn't do this.
I would just be single if Iwere you too, because I couldn't
do this dating scene right now.
So, yeah, my friendsunfortunately haven't been very
helpful on that front.
They will let me call them inrants about dating, but yeah,
they haven't been so helpfulwith helping me actually find
someone.
Sherice (40:49):
I am in the exact same boat as Wednesday.
My friends are like the peopleI know are terrible or they're
taken or you know something likethat, and they're like now you
can call and complain aboutdating.
You can definitely.
That's cool, you know.
I call and talk to them and saywe rant and, you know, bemoan
(41:13):
about dating all the time.
And so there is this thing whereI think a lot of my friends I
think it's that they're soprotective of me and they know
what I will stand for I thinkthey're afraid to send me out
there with people that they knowthey're like I want you to
(41:33):
continue being my friend andthese people are horrible.
Or I know you won't take anystuff, and so you know this guy
is not going to be what you'relooking for.
And uh, or this guy is marriedor they know something bad about
that friend, and I'm like, no,and I'm like he does, you know.
So they're all like, just no,just go do this or go do that,
(41:56):
and I'll ask them for advice andthings like that, and they will
give me good advice and fulldisclosure.
I don't set people up myfriends up either, for the exact
same reason.
So I don't set them up either.
So it's not that it's notone-sided.
Wensday (42:12):
I will also say just a disclaimer with everything I
said so far.
I do not consider myself apicky person.
I have standards and what I,what I'm looking for, I feel
like, is everything that I have.
So I feel like I just talkedabout, like you know, how
terrible the dating scene is andall these things, and I really
I will say I promise, like Ijust have standards and I think
(42:34):
people disabilities, like allpeople, should have standards.
You can have standards and knowwhat you want and know your
worth and if they don't meetthat then got to move on to the
next one what you want and knowyour worth and if they don't
meet that, then got to move onto the next one.
Sherice (42:45):
I, on the other hand, am picky.
I have I've dated enough whereI know what I don't want and
what I do want and I'm onlygoing to go for that.
I'm not going to say he's agreat guy, but you know he's a
great guy, but you know so I amvery picky and I won't settle
for anything less than what Iwant.
(43:06):
You know I'd rather be alonethan unhappy.
So I am very picky to a faultalmost.
You know my friends like well,who do you want to meet?
Who do you want to date Jesus?
I'm like no, he doesn't have acar.
Wensday (43:22):
So I don't think that's picky though I don't think
that's being picky.
I think that's just knowingwhat you want and that's it.
I think that is perfectlyacceptable and not being picky.
Sherice (43:32):
And see, I do too, and you know yeah.
Jaime (43:37):
No, I mean, I think it's super great to have standards,
you know, but sometimes for somepeople I feel like the bar is
just so low and they still can'tmeet those.
Have standards, you know, butsometimes for some people I feel
like the bar is just so low andthey still can't meet those
basic standards, you know.
So it's super annoying, it'ssuper challenging, but it
actually brings me to my nextfavorite topic red flags and
dating, because I know we can goon for a while about some red
flags.
What are some of y'all's like?
(43:57):
You know, big red flags whenyou guys were first starting to
talk to people or meeting peoplefor the first time.
Sherice (44:03):
Well, for me we talked about the disability fetish.
People who have the disabilityfetish that's huge red flag.
That's always job one Lookingout for.
That is because it's just weird.
Another red flag is when I feelthat someone feels like they're
doing me a favor or that they'retrying to take care of me.
(44:27):
They see me as a person thatneeds to be taken care of and I
do want to be provided for andall of that, but not in the way
of I'm a child, I'm helpless orsomething like that.
But as I am a partner, let metake care of you and you take
care of me in a mutual way.
So when I feel like someonejust wants to do everything for
(44:48):
me and just have me kind ofcarted around, those are huge
red flags for me, because Idon't want them to think of me
that way and it's like helpless.
So that's a red flag.
And also it's a red flag when,like someone is like I don't
(45:12):
know they, they, they see me asthis charity case or they see me
as, like I said, someone to betaken care of, or they feel like
my standards should be so lowthat they can just do anything
and I'm just going to be okaywith it.
Those are often red flags and Idon't meet people in clubs
(45:38):
because if you want to knowabout the dating cesspool, a
club is horrible and I don't gothere.
There's just red flags just allover the place, so I do stay
away from that.
Wensday (45:53):
I agree with everything Charisse said.
Also, I don't know if this is ared flag on myself, but when
someone's too interested toofast, I'm like, oh, I don't know
, you don't know me that.
Well, please, too much, toomuch.
So when someone's too nice, Ialways am like, oh, I don't know
how I feel about that.
Uh, but you could, it could bemeaning to think things through,
(46:14):
but I just too strong, too toofast is is something that I red
flag for me.
Sherice (46:23):
That's a good one.
When they're too nice and theytry to love bomb you or
something like that, that's ahuge red flag.
Love bombing, you know.
And then when, then I'm reallylet down.
When it all stops, you know,and it's like I got all this,
you know so.
When they go too much too fastof affection or whatever I'm
(46:43):
like, so you know, if's like Igot all this, you know so.
Amber (46:43):
When they go too much, too fast of affection or
whatever I'm like, so you know,if they start love bombing me,
that's a huge red flag soCharisse was just talking about
how, with the love bombingcoming at her, and then it just
suddenly stops it like it canfeel a little bit.
To me it seemed like arejection, and I know Wednesday
was talking about ghostingearlier.
So how do y'all handle?
(47:04):
Like rejection or heartbreak?
Wensday (47:08):
Like anyone else without a disability.
Call a friend, say somecolorful language to them to get
your anchor out.
Sherice (47:21):
Ice cream, a good movie , a nap you know all those
things, retail therapy, all thethings you know.
It's just, we handle heartbreakand rejection just like
everyone else.
It's not our disability is isnot going to make us handle it
different.
It is, I will say, for me morepainful when I know I'm getting
(47:41):
rejected purely on the fact thatI have a disability.
That makes it harder, but I geta rejection and heartbreak just
like anybody else, you know.
Wensday (47:54):
I want to expand a little on what Sharice said.
I think in some ways, if Ithink it's a rejection because
of my disability, it's reallyhard to not let the societal um,
views and thoughts creep in, umand and it's really difficult
again lack of representationthat really still exists and
(48:14):
like, oh, is it?
You know, is this an issue?
Or you know, it's really hardnot to go to that place.
I will say at the same time,because of my disability, other
conditions I have and stuff,I've had a lot of surgeries,
I've had a lot of, I've gonethrough a lot in my 30 years and
so, like a boy saying, I don'tlike you, it's not like the
worst thing that's happened tome, and so I think in some ways
(48:35):
I'm like, okay, whatever, on tothe next.
You weren't good enough anyway.
Amber (48:39):
And that's one of the reasons I wanted to ask that
question is because you knowthat is a standard dating
question and I just wantedpeople to take a moment and
reflect on the fact that we allhandle rejection and heartbreak
pretty much the same way.
I mean, I'm pretty much leaningmore towards like the retail
therapy that Sharice was talkingabout, but I'm pretty sure my
(49:00):
co-host, Jamie, may handle alittle different way, but we all
handle it pretty much in thesame way.
Jaime (49:06):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean definitely.
You know, like a good girls'night with some of your friends,
you know good movie, comfy PJs,and you can kind of, you know,
just have, you know the spicylanguage, and then you know some
tears of B&B and it all worksout, and you know, you just kind
of say thank you next and youmove on.
So on with that.
How would you guys, or whatwould you guys, tell someone
(49:27):
with a disability who is wantingto get out?
There's somebody who is wantingto start dating.
Sherice (49:33):
You know.
I would just tell them knowyour standards, know your worth
and know that if a personrejects you because of your
disability or you know somethinglike that, they weren't meant
for you and you don't want thatin your life anyway.
But I would just tell them knowyour worth, Don't limit
(49:58):
yourself to you know I'm onlygoing to date this type of
person or that type of personyou know.
Just go with your standards.
Don't limit your standards,because dating is hard.
Dating is hard In your 40s.
Dating without a disability ishard.
Dating with a disability isreally hard, you know.
(50:20):
But don't lower your standardsbecause you're not going to.
What's going to end uphappening is you're not going to
get what you want and so getwhat you want.
It's okay to be alone and getyou some great friends, like I
have, and find your people andgo that way.
Wensday (50:41):
I think, yeah, dating sucks.
I don't know if everyone heardthat interjection.
I said earlier Dating sucks.
I think dating sucks foreveryone.
What I see people online saylike dating's so fun.
I'm like what are you doing?
How is dating for you?
I would like that.
I just like to skip to therelationship part, but I would
echo what Sheree says.
(51:02):
I think know your worth.
You are worth worthy of beingloved, um and cared for.
Uh, and while it might seemlike it, not everyone is again,
not everyone's with someone.
Um, and what you see on socialmedia, a lot of it's fake.
A lot of it's fake.
It is not real life.
Not everyone is happy andthrilled and all of these things
(51:23):
.
You have no idea what's goingon behind closed doors.
I think it's important to keepthat in mind.
And, yeah, having good friendsand I think, I think having fans
is important and I think, whileyou know we want people to have
(51:45):
an open mind and not makeassumptions about us, I think
it's important to have you knowto be, to have an open mind when
you're dating two to somedegree as well.
Have those standards and witheverything else outside of those
standards, you know beingwilling to explore and you know
you might not end up withsomeone who you thought was your
like quote-unquote type to youknow, just kind of really, you
know, try differentpersonalities and people and
have your core standards andthen everything else.
(52:05):
Just see, you know what's outthere and sometimes dating is
just awkward.
It just is what it is.
Dating is just awkward andit'll just be a funny story in a
few years.
Like you know it.
Just you know you'll make itthrough.
Sherice (52:17):
Yeah, you'll laugh about it.
You won't laugh about it now,but one day you'll laugh about
it.
It's not going to be funny now.
I'm telling you now, it's notfunny now, but you will laugh
about it later.
Amber (52:27):
Y'all have just given like just all the love and
empowerment, and that's exactlywhat I think people need in the
dating environment.
I agree it is a struggle foreverybody and dating can be good
at sometimes and bad at others.
So, charise, this question isgonna be directed just for you,
(52:48):
okay.
So what dating advice would yougive someone who's in
wednesday's age group?
Just something that you wouldjust absolutely want them to
know that you haven't alreadykind of given us.
But if you could go back intime and we're Wednesday's age,
what is something that you wouldwant to know then?
Sherice (53:08):
I think that I the one thing I wish I had been more
fully into myself in terms of mydisability, empowerment and
knowing that.
You know, my disability is apiece of me and it's a great
piece of me, but it's not theonly part of me, and if someone
(53:28):
doesn't like that, can't acceptthat, then pound sand.
You know, I wished I'd haveknown that.
I wished I'd have also knownthat I don't have to, because I
was in a relationship when I wasa little younger than Wednesday
for a long time and I was withthat person after the expiration
(53:49):
of the relationship, but I kepthold to that person because
they were comfortable and Ididn't know if I would be in a
relationship like that again,and so there is another person
out there for me, and so I thinkthat's what I would have told
my younger self.
Amber (54:10):
I'm over here clapping because I was like I love that
advice Absolutely.
I was like loving yourselffirst and knowing your value
first, Absolutely.
Jaime (54:20):
Okay, and then.
So Wednesday, this question isfor you.
What would you want someone whohas just started dating to know
?
Wensday (54:30):
Again, I echo Sharice and I have similar, different
but similar experiences andadvice.
I think knowing your worth isreally important.
I think I would want people toknow that it's okay if dating
isn't fun always, and that it'sokay to be sad sometimes.
(54:51):
It's okay to feel thatloneliness and to be sad about
it sometimes, and then it's timeto pull yourself back up and
keep going.
I think you need to be cautiousfor so many reasons, but I
think optimism is also important.
Have that good group of friendsand, yeah, never, never settle.
(55:13):
It's okay to feel lonely andalso be choosy, and I think
really also knowing yourself isimportant as well.
Amber (55:21):
Over here in tears now.
I was like this has just been awonderful and informative
conversation and I would love togive you the opportunity Is
there anything that you thinkshould be mentioned in this
podcast to let the audience knowabout dating with disabilities
that you think I may have notasked, or that you just want to
kind of leave our audience witha few words of wisdom, like you
(55:45):
haven't just dropped some goldennuggets on us this whole time.
Is there anything else youwould like to say?
Sherice (55:51):
You're not alone.
Yeah, you're not alone.
Have fun, go out there, justhave fun.
Sometimes.
It's not always about findingyour person.
Dating is a process.
Go have fun, go on dates, youknow, and just have a good time.
You know, don't every personyou date is not your person.
Don't look for every datingexperience that that's your
(56:13):
person.
That may be the end goal, butthat relationship, that date,
could be an experience that youneed to learn and go through to
find and be prepared for yourperson.
So that's what I would say.
Wensday (56:27):
Yeah, dating doesn't have to be serious, Just be fun
free food, meeting new people.
Amber (56:33):
Absolutely.
I think knowing yourself andmeeting new people and just
living the life you want to liveis the best way we could end
this podcast.
So I want to thank you both forcoming here and sharing your
words of wisdom, just sharingyour insight and your personal
experiences.
I appreciate you opening up andbeing honest with us and having
(56:54):
this conversation that I thinkit was just lovely to have, like
we're just all sitting togethersipping some tea.
I also want to thank Jamie, myco-host, for joining us today
and asking additional questionsand providing her insight.
And then, of course, as always,thank you to our audience for
listening in.
Thank you for joining us onincluding you.
(57:16):
We hope today's conversation hassparked ideas, offered guidance
or inspired you to take actionin your own life and community
At Disability Rights.
Sparked ideas, offered guidanceor inspired you to take action
in your own life and community.
At Disability Rights, webelieve advocacy isn't always
about sweeping reforms.
It's about the small everydayactions like asking the right
questions, standing up whensomething feels wrong or helping
(57:37):
to create a space whereeveryone feels included.
If today's episode resonatedwith you, visit us at
disabilityrightsarorg to learnmore about your rights, access
resources and find ways to getinvolved, but don't forget to
follow us on social media forupdates, tips and stories from
(57:58):
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a review or start aconversation, because that's
where change begins.
Remember everyone deserves toknow their rights Everyone,
including you.
Until next time, I'm AmberQuaid and we'll talk with you
(58:18):
again soon.
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