Podcasting Power Hour: Do Podcasters listen to Podcasts? Special Guest Tom Webster (now of Sounds Profitable) answer that question and more

This content is repurposed from episodes of Podcasting Power Hour. Podcasting Power Hour is recorded live on Twitter Spaces. On this episode: Do Podcasters listen to Podcasts? Special Guest Tom Webster (now of Sounds Profitable) answer that question and many others.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
What you're gonna do, brother,when Jeff Townsend Media runs wild on you.
Have you been searching for a podcast? Do you want to learn from
some great content creators? Well you'vecome to the right place Indy Podcaster with
your host Jeff Townsend, the Indiepodcast Father. All right, all right,

(00:29):
all right, this is Jeff Townsend. Thank you for checking out another
episode of Indie Podcaster. This podcastis made for podcasters and other content creators.
Certainly don't consider myself a guru,or either do any of my friends
that will be featured in these episodes. But what we do like to do
is talk content creation, pick eachother's brains, and have a good time.
I'm proud to mention that this podcastis sponsored by Indie drop In.

(00:52):
Now, let me tell you somethingabout Indie Dropping. This is an awesome
network that my friend Greg has created. What he does is drop episodes from
independent content creator into his established podcastaudience on his feed, and he shares
your episodes to an audience that alreadyexists. Yes, it's like free advertisement
promotion for your podcast. He spenta lot of time, money, and
effort building it, and he alreadyhas an audience interested in the content,

(01:15):
and he can certainly help you bysharing your content is great promotion. Go
to indie drop in dot com slashcreators and check it out. If you're
a comedy, true crime, paranormal, for various other different kinds of podcasts,
you can benefit from this. SoI really encourage you once again go
to indie drop in dot com slashcreators and see if you can get your
stuff featured on indie drop in.We'll go back to the podcast here Indie

(01:38):
Podcasters. So what we've currently beendoing is sharing content from three different projects
that I'm involved in. The firstis Good Morning Podcasters with my good friend
Fuzz Martin. We also do somecontent on podcasting Sucks, and then in
these episodes you will also hear somecontent from podcasting Power Hour. Podcasting Power
Hour is a live thing we doon Twitter spaces. We get a whole
bunch of great podcast minds together wetalk podcasting. So if you're a content

(02:01):
creator a podcaster, I think you'lltake something away from every episode of the
content I'm going to share with you. With that being said, make sure
you check out Eddie drop in andmake sure you enjoy this episode. I
think it's important that we all continueto learn and grow every day, and
that will help us become even bettercontent creators. That's certainly what I try
to do, learn something new everyday. I'm excited to share this content

(02:22):
with you. I think it'll bea learning experience for you. Let's get
to this episode, and I hopeyou have a great time listening to it.
Welcome to Podcasting Power Hour with yourhost Jeff Townsend, aka the Indie
podcast Father. I'm your co hostGreg from Indie drop In Network. Podcasting

(02:52):
Power Hour is recorded live every Mondayat nine pm Eastern Time on Twitter Spaces.
Every week, an experienced panel ofpodcasters and other experts will tackle your
podcasting questions. We will, ofcourse put links to all of our guests
and any irrelevant information in the shownotes. All right, let's get this

(03:15):
party started. Podcasting Power Hour hereon July eighteenth. I'm Jeff Townsend,
of course, and we all wantI want to start this off by saying
Greg is in our thoughts and prayersas he overcomes a little bit of an
illness, So this evening is dedicatedto him. What do you think,
tinner? Yeah, I like that, And let's just provide a little clarity.

(03:36):
We're not kidding about that. He'sbeen in the hospital for the last
couple of days. He's coming outof it. But yeah, it's nice
to have him. I don't dothoughts and prayers. I do thoughts,
some would say I don't, butI don't do prayers. But keep them
in your mind, your mojo,whatever it is you do to hope people
pull out of things. There yougo, do that. You want to

(03:57):
go ahead and introduce yourself the greatnessof yourself, Tanny. Oh, you're
not gonna do it for me thistime? Great? Thanks. Finally,
Hey, I'm Tanner. I hostthe Good Morning Podcaster Show. It's a
daily podcast. It helps podcasters honetheir craft, trying to get better,
and it also opines occasionally on thingsthat are happening in the podcast industry.

(04:19):
It's a good show. Hope youlisten to it. Here to help,
that's all I've got. You know, Tanner, You're the reason I should
have introduced you, because you're thereason I've actually started drinking here lately.
So I just wanted to mention that, yes, and you're the reason I've
started drinking. Doesn't sound like youthink it does, all right, we'll

(04:45):
go ahead. We'll get to youin a second. Tom. Jim Mallard
from The Mallard Report, a longstanding eleven year podcast. Jim, I
don't know how you do it.I even show up one week at a
time and you don't worry about howmany years it's been. You just God
of time. That's how you doit. Thanks, thanks for being here,
and Tom, I'm glad you're upstill. This should be good.

(05:05):
Thank you. Jim. And Jenis here, creator of Jay Vision Advertising
and Marketing. She deals with somepretty good clients in that space. So
Jim, thank you for taking thetime. I know you've been on vacation.
Hi, Hi, and now thankyou for the invite. Yes,
I was on vacation and as youknow, when you come back, everything

(05:26):
is like all together waiting for you. So I finally was able to stabilize
everything and happy to be back.Awesome. This next man, he's a
Hall of Famer. He's been podcastingsince two thousand and five. He's very
influential yet sensual. It's Dave Jackson. What's going on? Dave? Oh,

(05:48):
glad to be here. I don'tknow about the central part, but
I appreciate the looking forward to havingsome fun hit it ladies. Oh,
Tanner, you know how to killher? Room all right, and our
special guests this evening, Tom Webster, formerly for Medicine Research and partner now

(06:09):
with Brian Barletta sounds profitable. Tom, appreciate you taking the time to join
us. Well, thanks for havingme, and I'm I'm not in danger
of falling asleep jokes aside, butI did get a Greyhound about six months
ago, which reliably wakes us upat about six am, So I'm not

(06:30):
as much of a night out asI used to be, but I'm ready
to give it as much power asI can for an hour. He has
listened to the show before, hashe? If he's I mean, this
show will put him to sleep exactlyexactly. So let's kick it off here.
I don't want to spend too muchtime on it. But Tanner,
there was some big news today.One of your favorite businesses in the industry

(06:54):
made a purchase. You want torun us through that? Yeah, sure,
sure, Oh you can listen tomorrow'sepisode now, I really feel about
it. I'll keep it short.A cast a cast acquired Podchaser, Podchaser.
Everybody in this room probably knows.Is kind of like a IMDb mixed
with Facebook experience for podcast creators tolist their credentials on the shows they've produced,

(07:17):
guest guested on had some kind ofhand in, and for podcast listeners
to discover new podcasts and you know, be better listeners. It's a great
platform. It's been around for afew years and a cast is acquiring it
for reasons I'm not smart enough tofigure out. But it's got something to
do with data. I'm not reallyhappy about it. I don't know what
they're gonna do with it. Hopefullythey don't ruin it. The press release

(07:41):
says that Podchaser is going to retaincomplete control over their brand. They're not
going to change anything. They're stillgoing to be able to steer where Podchaser
goes in the future and what theydo. Anybody who has ever been involved
in any kind of corporate merger ormerger of any kind knows that that is
what everyone says in the first yearand then the shit changes. So I'm

(08:03):
nervous about it, But what couldgo wrong? It's a cast. Dave
Jackson, what are your thoughts?I'm with Tanner on one hand, this
answers my question, which I've hadfor many years, heck Chazer because it's
kind of like why I use itfor research when I was, you know,

(08:26):
researching a guest or something like.But the whole time I was kind
of like, what does this reallydo? I never quite kind of got
that. And the answer is it'sa great tool to get acquired and my
my biggest hope out of this wholething. Does this mean that acast will
now stop spamming us because they alreadyhave our data? No, of course

(08:46):
not, because now they have awhole bunch of new users email addresses.
So exactly what they did with RadioPublic, they're going to do with this
probably, so get ready for that. But the other product they have,
Dave, I should have said it, and I think this is the real
product as far as how they're monetizingwhat they're making money with. You're familiar
with Reefhonic, I think, whichis far newer than Podchaser, But podchaser

(09:07):
pro is essentially Reefhonic. So it'sa way for PR professionals to get a
beat on what podcasts are influential,what kind of listeners they have. I
think it's all kind of quackery.I don't know how they're coming up with
these numbers. I think it's probablyas reasonable or as reliable as fucking listen
notes is, which is the baneof my existence every time I come across

(09:28):
someone who thinks they're in the toppoint zero one percent of podcasts. But
I think that's their real product.And to be frank, I'm afraid that
that's the one that acasts is shownup for, and I think that's probably
the one they're going to ruin.All right. I tried to, you
know, give a speaker invite toJames Kridlin. He did not accept it.

(09:52):
I was really dying to hear hisopinion. But Tom Webster, what
do you think? Yeah, Imean, it kind of reminds me of
there was a product years ago calledMuse that was just basically a giant database
of uh, you know, lyricsand artists and albums and titles, and
that actually became kind of a hotproperty in the same way that four Square

(10:15):
became a hot property long after weall stopped using it. It became valuable
as a database. And I thinkas we see you know, the death
of cookies and more intrusive kind ofad targeting measures that the data that Podchaser
is collected to be used for contextualtargeting. I think is a value,

(10:37):
and you know, honestly, that'sa I'm okay with that part of it,
because that's a that's a less intrusiveway to reach me rather than kind
of give up cookies and my onlinebehavior and things like that. That said,
I don't want to get any moreemails from acast. That's say,
dear podcaster James finally decided to join. I guess I called it amount and

(11:00):
it worked well. I didn't seethe invite, so there you go.
Yeah, I to be honest,I think I share a lot about what
Tanner has been as saying there.It'll be interesting to end up seeing quite
what a cast is going to dowith this. The one thing I can
tell you is that a cast,sorry, is that Podchaser has been telling

(11:24):
people for the last year or sothat pod news has half of the listeners
that it actually does, and alsothat pod news accepts guests. We're a
three minute long podcast, guys,we don't accept guests. So if the
rest of the database is as reliableas what I've seen, then I'm not
so sure, to be honest,fair enough, fair enough. I never

(11:50):
thought i'd hear you stay you agreewith Tanner though, so this is definitely
one of those j did I justsay that I do apologize. I do
apologize what has got over me.James and I agree on a lot.
It's just our public rowse that getthe most attention. Yep, with you

(12:11):
and James and about I don't knowa doesen other individuals anyway. Everybody's another
space for another time, tenneral letyou go ahead and kick the conversation off
with Tom Webster while in the meantime, if you have any questions or something
you want to talk about, feelfree to request to speak and we'll get
to you throughout this conversation here.I didn't realize that was gonna be my
responsibility to night. Tom. Hi, how are you? This is the

(12:33):
second time, Round two. I'mgood. Make this one better. I
can't. That was my best shotthe first time. Okay, So well,
let's start with the report that youand Brian under the Sounds Profitable banner
with partnerships with Edison, I'm prettysure have released about podcast creators. A
lot of good news in that reportas far as diversity and inclusion, I

(12:56):
think we're now more diverse as podcastersthan we are even as a nation.
The one thing that I saw thatwas I think there's still a lack of
female creators when compared to male creators, right. I think it's there's still
a large disparity there. But thelargest disparity I noticed wasn't that, It
was the financial disparity. Do youhave any ideas about First of all,

(13:18):
talk about that financial disparity poor peopleessentially, and I hate to use that
term. I'm considering myself to bea poor person. There are not there.
There are not a lot of poorpeople podcasting. Is there a way
to fix that? How do wefix that? What are your thoughts?
Yeah, I mean I would lookat the income as a as a trailing

(13:39):
variable, honestly, and it's atrailing variable of education. It's really the
education attainment disparity that drives a lotof that. And if you look at
some of the data and the creators, you know, look at the percentage
of people who say that they've everworked on a podcast who have attained at
least some level of you know,graduate credits, if not an advance degree,

(14:00):
and compare that to the US populationand it's an enormous disparity, and
everything else stems from that income andincome and the type of job that you
have. Right, many of ushave white collar jobs, information jobs,
and those are the kinds of jobsthat we can do at our desks.
Are the kind of jobs that youknow, maybe afford us time to work

(14:24):
on a podcast. You know,maybe not as much time as we would
like, but you know, certainlyit's a class of humans in the United
States that were much more likely tobe able to work from home, which
is not a thing you could doif you're in the restaurant business or the
service indust or the service business ormanufacturing. So so, as much as
anything, I think it's educational attainmentand that drives a whole series of class

(14:48):
disparities. I think that that stemfrom that. So I hold on,
gon I needed the wrong thing.So I know that we've jumped through hoops
to get the the ethnic diversity thingssorted. It seems like we have.
We will jump through hoops to getthe gender disparity things sorted. Certainly we
already are. Do you think we'lljump through hoops to try to solve this

(15:09):
problem? I hope so. AndI think it starts, you know.
And I look at how Apple reallybuilt its brand years and years ago in
Steve Jobs's first run with the company, and that was in the education space.
You know, when they weren't makingit in business, they made a

(15:31):
huge effort to put Apple computers intoschools. You know, this was even
before MacBooks and power books and youknow, these are these were some bad
computers, let's face it. Butthey made a huge effort to put them
into schools. So with the hopebeing that when these Cree kids left high
school went to college, that theywould that they would take their love for

(15:52):
Apple computers with them. And Ithink the same kind of thing has to
happen with podcasting as well. Ithink kids from all social stress uh and
and all classes and urban and rural. I don't know what happened there you

(16:12):
were with us time That is sostrange. I was, it's like it's
self muted. How very strange.Yeah. I think I think Twitter recognized
that the content of what I wassaying was was really low, and UH
canceled, canceled culture, I gotcanceled. I got canceled by Twitter.

(16:33):
Yeah, so I'm not sure wherewhere it get cut off there. But
I think, you know, gettingthe the impetus to have to speak your
voice, that your voice matters intoschools, uh, into rural areas,
into exurban areas, uh, youknow, in uh with with indigenous people

(16:56):
in this country, with all mannerof people in this country where those things
are not necessarily being filtered into schools. I think that's kind of where it
starts. And even the knowledge thatyou could do such a thing is a
thing that many of us in thisparticular space take for granted that so many
Americans don't even know that they have, So I do think it starts there.

(17:18):
I think it starts with outreach.I think it starts with reaching to
hear communities and voices that have beenunderheard and underserved and actually coaxing those stories
out. And I know organizations likeair here in the US air dot org
if you haven't been there, theydo a very good job with that.
But I think there needs to bemore. So maybe part be the change

(17:42):
you want to see in the world. In part, let's get a big
philanthropic donor or a couple of themto really get this kicked off and start
solving this problem. Yeah, youknow, education is a part of it.
But it's the same battle that Ithink public media has been fighting in
this country for decades. And youknow, public media also has very kind

(18:03):
of similar profiles. Right, publicmedia appeals to to wealthier people, to
older people than even podcasting does.It's a little bit white and all of
those things. You can say,well, we just need to educate,
educate, educate, but sometimes youactually just need to do You actually just
need to get into communities and starttaking field recordings and start getting voices on

(18:26):
tape. And to me, itall starts at the local level and at
just how underserved the average local communityis in terms of telling its own story.
And you know, I've been inthe audio business, in audio media
for nearly thirty years now, andyou know, in radio, there's this

(18:48):
graveyard of programming. It happens Sundaymornings at like five am, public service
programming. They're all like required todo it, or used to be,
and it's you know, you getlike a Saturday Night Live used to make
fun of it, uh, youknow, with with a skit on the
show called Perspectives, and it wasjust sleepy and awful. But every city
town and you know, uh uh, you know, the tiniest borough in

(19:14):
Maine where I grew up has hasstories to tell and no real record of
that. And I think starting withthat, starting with some of these hyper
local things, getting them, youknow, getting people used to understanding the
value of hearing their voice, ofgetting their stories out there. This is
not something that is that has brokenthrough to to all of America. And

(19:36):
I think that instigates I know I'mgoing on here, but that that instigates
a love for the oral tradition,that instigates a love for audio and oral
storytelling, and that's what drives thelove for podcasting period. Yeah. I
agree with you on all those points. G M, I see you with
your hands up, or rather yourhand up. Go ahead. What's how
the data compares to YouTube? BecauseI think a lot of younger kids are

(19:59):
more appletic. Great videos on YouTube, then trade a audio format. Jim
Mallard sounds a lot like Dave Jackson. Dave, do you mind it?
Do you mind if we take Jimfirst? Oh? Yeah, absolutely,
thanks man, I'm not talking.I'm listening to Jim. I think we

(20:21):
have a glitch in the matrix there, No that that was me being rude.
I apologize. Yeah, Well,you know, the one thing about
YouTube is that YouTube is a isa singular force and it's its own dog,
right. I mean, podcasting,for better or worse, is spread

(20:41):
out and fragmented over dozens of platforms, and everybody's trying to own their own
little their own little piece of thegarden, whereas YouTube is kind of big,
fat and happy, and you know, they have created a lot of
models for success. And now youhave kids wanting to be YouTube stars,
and you can't laugh at that,right, That's something that you could have

(21:04):
laughed at maybe five years ago,if you want to crush the dreams of
your children, as many of usdo. But it's not something you can
you can really laugh at now.Because the models for success are there,
then models for success in podcasting arenot so clear. It's really hard to
do. It's really difficult to do. The audience is not quite there yet,

(21:26):
even even for the medium in general. So but I think it could
get there. I do think thatit's podcasting has increased prominence on larger platforms
like Spotify. Help. Not thatI'm painting Spotify to be the savior of
the industry here, but look,a lot of people have Spotify subscriptions,

(21:47):
and if they're going to promote podcastingin front of those people, that's an
opportunity. Yeah, I agreed.I'll keep my thoughts on Spotify and myself,
I'm a little too pro Spotify.I don't get one of the accused
of you are. So I'm confusedhere, Dave. Did you ask that
question or did Jim? Because Iwas not looking at the screen on my
phone. That was Jim. Okay, I was sitting here listening. I

(22:08):
do have a question, though,go ahead, and I think the nail
on the head I think people don'tknow that it's possible. But I would
love to know, like how manyof this group have cell phones, because,
you know, God help us.If they got a cell phone,
they have Anchor it's free, youknow, So I Michael, maybe they

(22:32):
just don't know that's available because youcan definitely podcast for free if you have
a phone. And I thought,well, maybe that's a case where this
demographic doesn't have a cell phone.I think it's probably more. I mean,
tom stop me if I'm putting wordsin your mouth here, but I
get the impression of what you're gettingat, and I would agree with you.
Is that people from lower income areasfamilies, however, you want to

(22:56):
put a geographic locations that they arenot even of the mindset because of the
life level of what do they callanother country standard of living that they have,
that they're not even to a pointof being anywhere near self actualization,
and so they're not thinking about thesethings that are very self actualized based,

(23:18):
like I'm able to podcast. Ihave the freedom to podcast, and that's
because I have a certain income,I have a certain flexibility. Like you
were saying your job schedules. Isthat where you're getting at that this isn't
that they don't know they can doit, it's that they don't know they
can they can do it. Idon't know that I would go that far.
I would say they don't care,and I don't know that anyone's made

(23:38):
the case to them that they shouldcare. You know, this is the
thing that in my career as aresearcher, I've looked at extensively, and
you know, two of the fivemost widely cited reasons why people who are
familiar with the term podcasting don't listento a podcast are Number One, I
don't have anything on my phone oran app that lets me listen to them,

(24:00):
right, And number two, itdoesn't give me anything I don't already
have and what they already have toa certain extent, are you know,
Yes, there's radio, but there'sNetflix, and there's TikTok, and does
podcasting give them something better than that? I'm not sure that that case has
been made. So in no waywould I look at skance at the background

(24:26):
of people that aren't listening to podcastswith some kind of thought that they're deficient.
I don't think anybody from a contentstandpoint has made a compelling case.
And there's a significant percentage of thepopulation that thinks podcasting is just catch up
radio and they already listened to iton the radio. So what are they
getting that's new here? And wehaven't made the case. I think you

(24:48):
did you think I meant listeners.I was talking about creators. I don't
know what you meant, Tanner,We never do. Sorry, that's okay,
go ahead, you have you getthem. No, but ed,
I know you requested to speak.Anybody else has any comments or anything about
podcasting they want to talk about,go ahead and request ed. You've been

(25:08):
waiting patiently. What you get?Oh, sorry, I wasn't expecting to
be called I just wanted to chimeinto the thing with the computers in the
seventies. I'm when I was twelveand went from elementary school to middle school.
My school, in a middle classneighborhood in suburban California, had multiple

(25:33):
Apple to computers in our math classes. I learned how to program a computer
when I was twelve, with theold punch cards with the zero through nines
that you would have to run throughthe reader. But that was right before
California voted in Proposition thirteen, whichcuts school funding severely and has kind of

(25:56):
directly led to the stupidity of America, in my opinion, by just cutting
taxes over and over and over andover again. That's another story for another
time. But yeah, when Iwas a kid, the first time I
ever saw a computer was in myseventh grade math class, and we were
actually expected to learn how to operateit, which was much more interesting than

(26:17):
math itself. But now today everybody'sgot a computer in their hand, and
we've become dumber for it, becauseit's so smart that we've become dumb in
many ways. But with the podcasting, I just think that you know,
podcasts only interest a certain amount ofgroup. I mean, what was the

(26:37):
numbers that was released. There's likein the a Cast Catcher press release state
there's like four million podcasts out therearound the world, but there's a eight
billion people. So you know,most people probably aren't interested in just becoming
podcasters because they don't think they haveanything to more than any kind of technological

(27:03):
bridge because most everybody, even inthe most remote parts of the world,
have cell phones now that can dothe things that we do. So I
don't think it's a technological barrier ora financial barrier. I just think it's
a apathetic barrier. Well, Tom, to that point, what do you
think about the idea that and maybeyou think nothing, but here we go.

(27:27):
What do you think about the ideathat of all the types of media
that are consumed online, podcasts arejust such a small percentage. Is that
an indication that maybe this is asbig as we grow? I mean the
Edison research where you used to work, the Infinite Dial that's been coming out
the last couple of years, eventhough it spanned COVID, there wasn't a

(27:48):
significant amount of growth over the lastfew years. If I remember it was
only up and down a percent orso. Do you think that we're getting
to a point where we're peak podcastlisteners? I mean, are we going
to get bigger than that? No, I don't think we are at I
don't think we're at peak podcast listeners. And you know, if I know,
I've heard that figure of four millionpodcasts a few times. There are

(28:08):
a million self published books released inAmerica every year. We're lousy with books,
and I don't think anyone's saying thatwe've reached peak book, right,
you know, I continue to think, well, let me rephrase that peak
giving a shit about the books orgiving a shit about the podcast because I
know a lot of people who selfpublish, myself being one, and they

(28:30):
can't sell more than twelve copies.Well, and that's very true of podcasting,
right, So I think there's Ithink there's an enormous room for more
podcasts that nobody gives a shit about, if that's what you're saying. Perfect.
So, like, I think theappetite for that is is unlimited.
But you know, every time thatwe create a creator, you know,

(28:51):
even on a free platform, youknow, something like Hanker and so on,
we are we are creating at leastone listener. And that's another thing
that we learned in the creator study. I think a sizeable percentage of creators
are actually new to the medium period, and indeed it may have been the
creation of a show the desire tomake a show that got them into being

(29:11):
regular podcast consumers in the first place. But I don't think we're peak podcasting.
I think all you have to dois look at the top podcasts in
America and or the top podcast inwhatever country that you're listening from, and
then look at your top television programs, right. I mean, the top
TV shows in America are live sportsand police procedurals with acronyms, and that's

(29:36):
not what the podcast charts look like. They still look pretty highbrow compared to
that. So there's still a waysto go for the content, I think,
to become more broadly appealing. Andyou know, and I still think
there's tremendous opportunity in fiction and dramatoo. I like that you just said
that that podcasting is highbrow. TV'slowbrow, and then you said there's plenty

(29:57):
of room for us to get morecontent, which is kind of like you
just said, there's plenty of downfor us to go. We could get
way worse in the in the qualityof condem were producing. We could make
the bodio version of Cops. Yeahbut let but let me let me challenge
you with this, Tanner. Theaverage episode of you know, Law and
Order or NCIS or you know whateveris quality wise way better than most podcasts.

(30:23):
Right. Lowbrow and highbrow have nothingto do with quality. Uh,
They instead have to do with thepercentage of the population that maybe wants to
lean forward and learn something. Right, Maybe they want to learn something about
stoicism and they listen to your podcasttenor or they want to learn something about
research or marketing and they've listened tosomething that I've done. But some people

(30:45):
just want to laugh. Some peoplewant to lean back, And you know,
I think there's still plenty of opportunityfor podcasts to appeal to people that
want to lean back and and beentertained as opposed to want to learn something.
It's the largest of a population leaningback instead of forward. Isn't a
great metaphor for the current state ofthis country. Man. We're going to

(31:06):
have to move on, tom Okay, So let's let's talk more about the
Creator Report. What was the thingthat surprised you? Yeah? Thanks,
ver, go ahead. Yeah,well someone's got to do it. No,
Tom, I thought that you kindof like were touching on it there
the like what it was? It? Four and ten creators have been listening

(31:29):
to podcasts for under a year.I thought that was interesting. So they're
getting into this space with not necessarilyany historical knowledge of it, even from
a consumer standpoint. But that shouldn'tbe that shouldn't be a surprising point.
That shouldn't even be interesting. Weknow that most podcasters. Of course,
most podcasters are going to be newto podcasting because they only create seven episodes

(31:52):
and then they dip. I feellike those two things we're talking about are
very related. Well, yes andno. And I think the percentage of
creators that are fairly new to themedium actually means two things. One thing
I think we just touched on,and that is that many of them have

(32:12):
come to the medium specifically to makea show, or maybe they heard one
podcast and felt like, oh,this is something I would like to do,
and so they then made their ownpodcast. Right, And it's corroborated
by another data point in the reportthat shows that creators don't actually listen to
that much more podcast programming than theaverage podcast listener does. Right, They're
not these kind of twenty hour weekfreaks. They're listened to about the same

(32:37):
amount. That's one explanation for that. But the other explanation for that,
for the forty percent of creators comingto be regular listeners of podcasts within the
last year, is that that's notincredibly different from the general population of weekly
podcast listeners period. And the reasonfor that is that there's a lot of
churn in podcasting. And we cantell ourselves that when the percentage of weekly

(33:01):
podcasters goes up from twenty two totwenty four to twenty six, that it's
the sort of continual growth, butit's not. It's a roiling sea of
churn that's three steps forward and twosteps back. Someone gets into podcasting because
they like to hear, because theywant to hear Doctor Death or Dirty John,
and then Dirty John ends, theydon't necessarily go right to another podcast,

(33:24):
everything go to TikTok. There's alot of churn in podcasting. That's
something that I know personally, we'regoing to be turning our attention to a
lot that sounds profitable because that's afairly unexplored you know, box to poke,
but we're going to poke it.Sorry that you off, Tanner.

(33:45):
You can go ahead, but Iknow Mike has been waiting and it looks
like has something to say. Yeah, I was just going to say,
Mike, you've been patiently waiting.Go ahead. Sure, I was actually
going to talk about this same topic, which is about this this new podcaster.
And you know, my personal viewlooking at the data is that I
really wonder how much Anchor and thequote unquote you know four and a half

(34:08):
million podcasts that are out there areinfluencing that number. Four and a half
million is a big number. Youknow, a significant portion of that has
made an appearance in the last youknow, twelve or twenty four months.
How much do you think specifically Anchorand quick pod fading podcasts affect that that

(34:29):
figure? Well, I think significantly. I mean, you know, it's
probably a million podcasts on Anchor rightThere's there's a number right there, So
obviously it's a huge part of it. I don't I don't place a stigma
on pod fading. I mean,you know, Star Trek pod faded,
Seinfeldt pod faded, Cheers pod faded, lots of things pod fade, right.

(34:52):
The only difference between a pod fadeand a television show being canceled is
who decides to end it? Iguess, but you know, I'm thrilled
that so many people have tried sortof these newer, free, easy to
use tools, just to try itout, Like, you never know unless
you try it out, and somepeople might decide it's it's not for them,

(35:14):
and guess what, they didn't riskanything so great. Podcasting Power Hour
is part of Indie drop In network. If you are a podcaster looking to
grow your listeners, check out Indiedrop in dot com. Indie drop in
is always free and we have opportunitiesright now for comedy, true crime,

(35:37):
scary and paranormal podcasts. Just goto indie drop in dot com to learn
more. It's always been interesting tome that we have I mean, what's
the figure, tom something like there'sfour point two million podcasts according to Accessible
by rss feed according to Podcasts Index, but big butt really only six hundred

(36:00):
and eighty seven hundred thousand have publishedwithin the last is it ninety days or
sixty days? It's I think it'sninety from Yeah, I think that resonates
ninety to me. So what's curiousabout that to me is that that means
that all of those other podcasts areoffline but are maintaining their hosting. That's

(36:21):
always been curious to me. Well, look, I've got four podcasts that
I'm not active in that I thatthe hosting is maintained for like, you
know, it's it's ego, LikeI don't want to I don't want those
things to disappear forever. I'm notdoing them anymore. But but yeah,
I'm still paying hosting bills for youknow, defunct shows, but they're still

(36:44):
they're still creative output. There's there'sstill things I put out there. I'd
still like them out there. We'vealso had the greatest song ever sung poorly,
hey man, how are you?Go? Ahead, good Tanner,
how are you? This is actuallyall this stuff kind of us back into
what I used to do for aliving when I work in television. So

(37:04):
if you think about it, itgoes back to what you say, a
lot with closed versus open systems.So back when we had three major networks
in the United States, a showlike Bonanza could have a season where they
did a twenty eight rating and aforty one share because there were so few
options out there in terms of what'savailable and what's in distribution. Can you

(37:28):
for those of us, including myself, who don't know what twenty eight school
get forty share means? Yeah,you got you. So the rating part
was the amount of viewers, andthe share was the percentage of viewers who
were watching that program at the time. Let me just look up something contemporary,
real quick top rated share show.I mean, ultimately, this only

(37:52):
too Ultimately, this is a discussionabout what that because we're talking about there's
too many, the fact that there'sso many there there is competition to be
discovered. That's what this discussion is. Yes and no, it's not just
that it's the competition certainly helps tolower that across the spectrum, but the

(38:15):
distribution systems too, that we're notall listening on Spotify, that we're not
all listening on Apple podcasts, thatthere's a million different options and there's very
very poor tracking system wide for allof that stuff does play a factor in
some of it. I think,well, you're looking, why don't we
go to Dave? Go ahead,Dave. Yeah, First things first,

(38:37):
I couldn't hear a thing he saidthat's really weird. I think my phone's
are I don't know, having abad night, And so if I ask
a question, it sounds like I'mignoring what he just said, and I
just I didn't hear what he said. But I'm dying to know the thing
that got me because we've been screamingwomen get into podcasting, women get into
podcasting for years, and when Igo to podcast movement or pod except you

(39:00):
know, podcast, et cetera,it seems like it's fifty to fifty,
if not in some cases I'm outnumberedkind of thing. And I just wasn't
sure, like, why is thatsuch a discrepancy? I guess I love
that you brought this up, andit's you know, it's a really important

(39:22):
point, I think, especially kindof when you think about just demographics and
statistics, and it's a much broaderpoint. I think, you know,
first, I want to I wantto explain how we got the number that
we got in the Creator's study forthis year, and this is the first
year of it. We had avery broad screen to get into the survey.

(39:43):
We asked a very simple question,do you currently or have you ever
produced a podcast? Right, So, there's a historical look at this.
Now, there's going to be abias because it's survey research. There's going
to be a bias on recency.But if you look back at the history
of MA podcasts, you know,back in two thousand and five, when

(40:04):
I first started researching podcasting and reallystarted getting into the space, you know,
the podcast audience itself was like nearlyseventy percent men. Right, it
was hugely biased towards white men.And you know, there are some reasons
for that, which which I cantouch on in just a second, But
it just takes a while for thatto write itself. Because here's the thing

(40:29):
is, setting things to be equaland fair does not make things necessarily equitable.
Right, if I have a dollarand you have fifty cents, and
we agree to continually split every dollarfrom now on fifty cents apiece, I
will always have more than you.So the only thing that writes the ship
is unfairness or inequitableness in the otherdirection. So for that to be restored,

(40:53):
it can't just be that, youknow, half of New creators are
women. Has to be more thanthat. We have to we have to
work harder at it. Well,that has just it's great that you brought
that up, because that's just happenedwith underrepresentation of white creators in podcasting.
We are, for the first timethat we know of underrepresented by not by

(41:15):
I'm I say points, that's probablynot right from a data perspective, but
by like a few points. Yeah, And I think you know this is
uh, this is I think indicativeof a segment of the population that is
not being heard in mainstream media,and they're not being represented in mainstream media.

(41:35):
They've actively sought out the tools towrite the ship and I think that's
that's going to continue to happen.I have I fully expect that the podcast
audience, it's already trended that way, will continue to be more diverse than
the US population. We see thatwith creators, but ultimately, the creators
inform the content that is being created. And I think the fact that we

(41:57):
have so many creators of color hasabsolutely led to the audience for podcasting being
as diverse, if not more diverse, than the US population. But it
does still the audience for podcasting doesstill lag behind in gender equality, and
it's a little warped in terms ofage too. We haven't even touched on
that. So those things I thinkhave to be that those have to be

(42:19):
addressed somehow for podcasting to really occupythe footprint that I think it can in
this country. And what footprint isthat, well, I can tell you
what the what the what I thinkthe ceiling is. And I don't know
that it's going to be the ceilingfor podcasting, but I do know the
percentage of the population that listens tospoken word audio. And but you know,

(42:40):
when you roll up talk radio,sports radio, you know, talk
based, public broadcasting, audio,books, and podcasts. When you roll
all of that up together, it'sabout two thirds of the country listens to
at least some form of spoken wordaudio. Most of us listen to music,
and most of us listen to mostlymusic, but about two thirds of

(43:00):
us listen to some form of spokenword audio. And we're not there with
podcasting. I think, you know, there are places to grow in some
of the areas of content that I'vesuggested. I think there are places to
grow. They're going to continue tobe crossings of the streams with audiobooks,
I think. But that is whatI think the ceiling is. The ceiling's

(43:21):
not one hundred percent that's ludicrous.We don't all want to listen to spoken
word audio, but you know that'swhere it could go. So you think
it's sixty to seventy percent somewhere inthere, you'd feel like, all right,
we've done it. This is asbig as we're going to get.
I think so yeah. I mean, there's there's a point to which people
there are people that just don't thatdon't have that tradition, they don't have
that experience or desire to listen tospoken word audio. There's the percentage of

(43:45):
the population that doesn't listen to anything. If you can believe that I don't
listen to anything, so well,how about I'm interested to get your thoughts
after having said that and correct meif I'm wrong, because I believe you
were a co author of this stuff. Unless I'm getting my data houses mixed
up. Wasn't there a study donein Ireland within the last couple of years

(44:06):
that the that the percentage of thepopulation in Ireland that listens to podcast is
extraordinarily high. I was not apart of that study, but it doesn't
surprise me for two reasons. Andwe're starting to see that in the UK
also, I think and that's justthat there's a there's a rich heritage of

(44:27):
spoken word content in those countries.I mean, some of the biggest radio
stations in Ireland are talk stations.They're massive. There's a huge tradition in
many European countries for people of allages to listen to the main kind of
state broadcast, state run news andinformation service. It's not a tradition that
we have here in the United States, or at least we haven't in decades.

(44:50):
So I would expect, certainly inEnglish language speaking countries in Europe to
exceed the percentage that we have herein the United The States and other countries
I think are really just being heldback by the amount of quality content in
the native language of those countries.Hey, James, you're still on stage.
Do you have any input on anyof that. I mean, I

(45:14):
would certainly agree with Tom around Europe, and you know, I think it's
interesting seeing some of the latest datathat we're seeing from Edison Research is Infinite
dial which is showing, you knowthat the amount of podcast listening, I
mean, arguably the amount of podcastslistening going on in places like Canada,
Australia and the UK is doing particularlyhigh and particularly well and you know,

(45:39):
and that's a great thing. I'mnot aware of any specific data coming out
of Ireland other than the Writers' Institutestuff, which is a little bit more
focused on the news, but Ithink that there's you know, certainly a
ton of a ton of really interestingdata coming out of that. And I
think it's always worth keeping an eyeon the places other than the US,

(46:01):
because I think you'll get a fresh, you know, a fresh focus on
some of the on some of thedifferent things going on there. You know,
fiction podcasting incredibly strong in France,paid for podcasting doing really great guns
in places like Denmark, France,Germany. So always worth keeping an eye

(46:22):
overseas, so to speak. Soas we as we enter into the last
fifteen minutes here or so we alwaysseem to go over I'd like to invite
anybody who has specific questions for Tomor for anyone else up here, to
use the It's like a hand raisingicon if you could do that, so
I could more easily see you,and Jeff could more easily see you that

(46:43):
you don't just want to come onstage, you have an actual question to
ask, so request put your handup and then I will go to Dave,
make sure Dave doesn't have anything he'dlike to ask, and then to
Jim Dave Jim, No, I'mgood at this point. Thanks Wy,
Jim, Jim, how about you. I'm going to jump on the Dave

(47:06):
Jackson Bandlagen begin and just let anybodyelse want to jump in here. I'm
excited to talk about data because Ithink in the other countries I've noticed,
Ireland definitely is strong, for sure, because I've had several guests done from
over there and it always does well. So I just mentioned I should just
mentioned, by the way, thatthe number one thing on Irish radio for

(47:28):
a long long time has been theobituaries who has died today? That's actually
the number one thing, which isa really weird, weird thing. But
also again just worthwhile clocking that actuallyin Ireland radio, even the hit commercial
radio has to have a percentage ofspeech content as part of the license condition.

(47:51):
So I think it's twenty five percenttime you maybe you may know better
than me, and so therefore,actually people are very used to hearing large
chunks of spoken word, which ofcourse you know, it's very good for
podcasting as well. I have gotto ask before I go to Mike with
his hand up, James, isthat a squeaky chair or a cockatile in

(48:12):
the background, It'll be a cockpatoooutside. Yes, go ahead, Mike,
Yeah, thanks for letting me chatTom. You know, on Red
Circles Support channel, at least acouple times a week we get people writing
and ask me where they can uploadtheir content to YouTube, in other words,

(48:36):
expecting that podcasts and YouTube are thesame thing. We even had somebody
apply for a job and get througha couple interviews I think before they realized
that we were an audio company,and I wonder if you think that may
have some influence on the data here. When you asked, you said that
the question was sort of have youproduced a podcast, whether some of those

(48:58):
folks may be video creators, andhow you think that may adjust the data.
Well, I think there's some extentto which that could be true,
right, I mean, it's asimple survey research question. The one thing
I will say, though, inthis particular data set, it's much less
likely to be true. And it'sworth explaining just for thirty seconds about where
the data comes from. It's derivedfrom a data set that is actually provided

(49:22):
to us by Edison called Edison PodcastMetrics, and Edison Podcast Metrics is a
significant study. It's about to bumpup to twenty thousand respondents a year who
are all weekly podcast listeners. Andas the co creator of that particular study
and a designer of it, Ican tell you the amount of labor that
goes into it. When someone takesthe survey, one of the many things

(49:49):
that they're asked is to name theshows that they've listened to in the last
week. And they may name thingsthat are on YouTube, they may name
things that are on Spotify. Butevery single show written down by them in
their own language literally is verified byEdison to be an actual podcast with an
actual RSS feed that you can actuallyalso get in a podcast client. So

(50:14):
then, in other words, theonly way that what Mike is getting out
here would be if it was aYouTube channel and a podcast, then the
ress, yeah, they would notbe in that particular sample. Now,
if we ask just ask this toa general public, it's possible you'd get
some of that crossover, but inthis particular data set it's less likely to

(50:34):
occur. Of course, I won'tsay impossible, but I will say that
everything is verified in this data setas actually being a podcast available as a
podcast even if it is also onYouTube. Awesome. I mean times twenty
thousand. That sounds like a lotof work. Thank you and to doing
it. We were glad to sponsorit, and thank you for sponsoring it.
And it's actually more like times eightythousand, because most people will name

(50:57):
four or five podcasts, so anenormous amount of work. It's about seventy
percent algorithmic at this point. Youknow, someone types in Bill Simmons,
it'll get matched to the Bill Simmonspodcast. But people will type in all
kinds of crap you never know,and then the rest of it's just brute
force. It's humans looking at textfields. I'd like to thank our sponsor,

(51:21):
Red Circle. Go to redcircle dotcom. Check that out. Thanks
Mike. Okay, so, speakingof data set and sample sizes, this
first one of the creator's report waswas it under a thousand? I remember
thinking that it was a bit small. Yeah, So the sample for this
was six hundred and seventeen and itwas as I mentioned, it was derived

(51:42):
from a larger sample. But that'swhat came back in this particular study,
which is plenty actually to give sortof the top down demographics to say,
you know, the percentage men,percentage women, and the percentage in each
age group. That's plenty to dothat within a few percentage points. What
it's not enough to do is todive deeper and do any kind of in

(52:05):
depth analysis on black creators or oldercreators. But that's going to come.
That's going to come in subsequent years. I'm confident that we'll begin to get
larger sample sizes and and increased abilityto do that. But what we anything
that we presented is data that I'mone hundred percent confident in within a within

(52:25):
a few points. So it's it'ssolid, and I think that's what I
was getting at. I wanted tokind of tease out of you what you
think the future of this Creator reportwill be. I mean, i'magine you're
gonna do it every year, andevery year it's going to be a little
bigger every year, it's going toget a little better and then therefore a
little bit more accurate. Where doyou where do you think it becomes or

(52:45):
what's your hope that it becomes asaccurate as it could be? I mean,
is there such a thing as toomuch of a too big a sample
size. Does that exist? No, not, especially not if you're in
the business of charging for research asI used to. No, I don't
think so. But I do havesome hopes and dreams for the study,
and I think, you know,first of all, again the source data

(53:08):
for this is coming from Edison PodcastMetrics, and they have recently dramatically increased
the sample size for the core study. So I would expect, doing nothing
else, that our total sample fornext year would be at least double what
it was this year. But thingsthat I hope to, you know,
continue to add to the study alittle bit more detail on what these creators

(53:30):
are creating. And we do havesome data in this study about what these
creators are consuming, because that's datathat's collected of everybody in Edison Podcast Metrics.
But I would like to get asense of the you know, our
certain topics or genres in podcasting beingoverserved, underserved at least in proportion to
what the tastes of the general audienceare, because again that's I suspect that's

(53:55):
going to have a lot to dowith growing podcasting in the future. All
right, Tom, we're coming overthe last five or six minutes so let
me ask you this, what isthere? Is there anything that you would
like to share with the people whoare listening. A big project you're working
on, future plans, you know, where you get your dog's haircut at
how that's going. Well, let'sstart with the dog. Let's start with

(54:17):
the dog. Tanna a good place. This is a retired racing greyhound.
It has very little hair, sothat would be that would impede its forward
progress. It is a very leanand muscular beast. But as far as
projects that we're working on right now, we are super excited Brian and I

(54:37):
for Sounds Profitable to be hosting dayzero of Podcast Movement for our sponsors.
So basically, if you're a sponsorof Sounds Profitable, which we are pushing
about one hundred, and you havea ticket to Podcast Movement, you are
you have a ticket to the SoundsProfitable Business Summit and we're going to be

(54:58):
premiering a brand new research study there. And it's basically the best I can
do to look at a very stickyquestion, and that is is there really
a difference between you know, livehost red ads, dynamically inserted host red
ads, and announcer red ads?If they are all set equal, done

(55:20):
to a high standard, done forthe same brand, done on the same
show. Tried to eliminate every variablethat I could in the design of this
study, and we are going toget to the bottom of this, and
I'm super excited to put that out. I am so afraid that the answer
to that is that it doesn't matter. I think the answer to that is
that it's not going to matter much. And I think what that's going to

(55:40):
do is that's going to that's goingto unlock some things, and it's going
to make some people unhappy, butultimately it's going to make some people better
because I don't think I think thedifference between, you know, a crappy
radio style i'll know, programmatic adand a great host red ad, it's

(56:05):
not about where that ad came from. It's the care that went into it.
And a lot of times when youhear like some screaming crappy ad that's
twice the volume of the podcast you'relistening to, it's not the fact that
it's programmatic. It's like some dudethat didn't do his job right right,
And hopefully that all gets better,and that all gets better with education and
I'm proud to be a part ofthat. Well, so this is how

(56:30):
if you have a ticket to podcastmovement, you might have a ticket to
this if you're a sponsor of SoundsProfitable. For anybody who's not aware of
Sounds Profitable is that I understand itto be a sister publication of pod News,
which I'm sure everybody in this roomknows about, and it focuses specifically
on the ad tech world. Soif you are a data wonk, if
you really care about learning about thisstuff, Sounds Profitable dot com is the

(56:51):
domain. It's free to sign up, doesn't cost you anything. However,
if you'd like to be a sponsorof this, what are we looking at
here? Tom? Is this expensiveor people going to be like, holy
shit, this thousand dollars a month, I can do that? Or is
there space for people who you know, maybe could do one hundred dollars a
month sponsorship for something? Yeah?Well, I mean I would say two
things. First of all, weput out an enormous amount of content for

(57:13):
free, including all of these studiesthat I'm talking about. These studies are
put out simultaneously for free, andyou know, we've really expanded the purview
of Sounds Profitable beyond ad tech tobe the business of podcasting. And that's
kind of I think why I wasso excited to join Brian is that we
both have an opportunity here to makethe space bigger, to try to give

(57:35):
people the careers that we have had, right So that's something that we're very
focused on. So we will continueto provide a lot of free things.
Sponsors to Sounds Profitable have access toconsulting services and you know obviously attendance to
We're going to be doing four ofthese summits a year, and that's five
hundred dollars a month. And asI mentioned, we are where we've got

(57:57):
just about one hundred sponsors. Thankyou Red Circle and thank you read Circle
for being one of the sponsors tothe Creator Study. But that's the cost
of sponsorship, and that has anumber of benefits. And would you say,
and I think the answer this isgoing to be asked, but would
you say there's a particular kind ofcreator that would want to be a sponsor
of this, right, this isn'tfor the average creator is going to get

(58:22):
more than enough to learn more thanenough from the newsletter, from the articles
from the other stuff you're doing thatyou mentioned, the load of free stuff
you're doing. Who is somebody whowould really benefit from from sponsoring. Maybe
they're in this room, maybe they'renot, But who's the ideal sponsor?
Yeah, I think you know,one of the things that Brian and I
as a function of having so manysponsors and these sponsors having consulting time with

(58:46):
us, is that we are talkingto everybody. So you know, we
are talking to everybody in the spacethat's you know, that's making money in
a variety of ways. And soI think if you're serious about taking the
step up, which is not justan investment in US, but it's an
investment in and you know this isthese are things that you've talked about tenner,

(59:07):
an investment in marketing and investment inthe quality of your content. It's
the next step up, I think. But having said that, we are
very committed to continuing to provide evenmore than we have provided for free.
And I think you know, whenI started serving the space back in two
thousand and five, it was verymuch for the independent creator because that's all

(59:28):
there was. And so that's definitelyin my DNA, and that's going to
continue to be in our DNA aswe go forward. Go ahead, Jem,
I see coming off. Mike.Yeah, I was a second that
I think the future of ads isa well read host AD because it'll be
more integrated than the show. That'sjust my two cents, but it's still

(59:52):
early in that though. I thinkI think this first set I'm talking in
ten years, just my two centsfor the record market. That all right,
we will mark it down and we'llsee if Tom agrees with you.
Podcast movement to man for I wantto make it real clear, real quick
too. That that uh, andI hope that this was clear. If

(01:00:15):
you have a ticket to podcast Movementand you are a sponsor, you have
a ticket to the sounds profitable business. I think I think that was clear,
but I got a question about that. But but you know, I'll
be there. I look forward tomeeting and talking to as many of you
as I can. We do havejacking around Jack Ingram podcast request to speak.
Don't want to leave them out.Oh sorry, Jack, didn't see

(01:00:37):
you go ahead or not? Jackmad That was just got some some interesting
insights to I was provided by abig record company in Nashville, so they're
concerned about concern relatively speaking with thethey're seeing the podcast list you know,
obviously the music listeners are increasing,but they're seeing their podcast listeners substantially increase,

(01:01:00):
taken away listening time from the musicspace. So and their biggest impact
is on gen Z, and theypublished an internal report about it. They
were so concerned about it. AndI think this data was driven by I
can't see where the data. Itwas just forwarded to me about two months
ago by a marketing executive. Butit's pretty interesting stuff. So you fifty

(01:01:23):
six percent of gen Z now listento podcast a monthly, up forty four
from just two years ago. Andthen he says, we are seeing the
impact of podcast sometimes event listening tomusic on the platform. So they're just
overly concerned about spoken words beginning totake place of some of the music listeners
in the country. And they havea bunch of international data too, So

(01:01:45):
it's just interesting. I thought i'djaer man. If that report accidentally made
it to James atpodnews dot net,I think that might be okay. He
can reach I'll read this call reachout to me via message, I'll read
it to you. I don't I'llget my asked Jude if I shared it
to you digitally. But I'll bemore than happy to read this report.

(01:02:07):
It's pretty fascinating report. But Iwould I would have to call my buddy
see if it's okay to share itwith you. I don't think you would
mind. I would. I wouldlove to share this reports, A twelve
page report with a one page witha from our corporate insights team, so
pretty interesting stuff. But reach outto me via the messaging or uh and

(01:02:28):
then I'll let's I'll get permission toshare this with you, and I'll do
that very Oh, James, Imight be an old fashioned scoop. You
never know. Okay, well,hey, now I'm going to try this
for the third time. Thank you. Thank you for taking the time to
be here and for answering what I'msure were some inane questions for me and
smart questions from other people. Thereare no stupid questions, Tanner. There

(01:02:52):
are only stupid people. Well hopefullyI'm not one of them. It is
ten clock on the East Coast whereyou're at, so it's probably time for
you to go to bed, andit's time for me to go to bed.
And it's only eight o'clock where Iam. Jeff over to you,
my man, Well, we gotto do things the right way like we
usually do. Closing thoughts on thisevening, mine is kind of a question

(01:03:14):
for Tom aside from some of thethings that you wanted to drill down more
on what the kind of content's beingcreated, what's something existing in this that
in this report that was released,it's going to be the focal point moving
forward. What do you want todrill down on more. I want to
drill down more on content, youknow, And like I said, I've

(01:03:34):
got a thirty year career of lookingat audiences and what audiences want and what
audiences don't want in media in allkinds of media, and podcasting is not
really at the stage yet where it'sdoing a lot of research on content,
on kind of content holes and contentopportunities. It's still very focused on sales
and monetization and that's that's what's payingthe bills. But you know, good

(01:03:57):
old fashioned content research is kind ofwhere I made my bread and butter in
the first part of my career,and I'm looking forward to podcasting growing there.
Tanner, You're closing thoughts on thisevening. I think this has been
great. It's always good to getto hear someone who really knows and understands
the thing they care about talk aboutthat thing. I have often said that

(01:04:21):
I love listening to competent people talkabout competent things, even if I'm not
particularly interested in whatever that thing is. That's not the case with Tom.
He's a competent guy who talks aboutsomething he cares a lot about and that
I happen to have a lot ofinterest in. So it's always a good
opportunity to get to hear him speakon it. So again, Tom,
thank you. I have been throughthat Creator Report a couple of times,

(01:04:44):
and if you guys have not wantto see you guys, everyone in this
room, guys and gals, ifyou've not seen that Creator Report, it's
worth checking out. I am sureit is accessible from the front page of
Sounds Profitable dot com because it wasonly released a week or so ago,
so I would go there and checkit out free PDF. I don't even
think you have to register to seeit. So go go snag that and

(01:05:06):
see what's going on and see whereyou fit into this big, wide creator
world that we're all part of.Tom. He doesn't say such nice things
about you OFFLINEFI. I mean he'ssucking up to you here, but yeah,
I know that, Yeah, yeah, just making sure we're all on
the same page. Jin, Iknow that you're not necessarily in podcasting,

(01:05:27):
But did you take away anything fromthis conversation? I know, obviously I'm
going to say data because I wasjust hoping somebody would and Mad did so.
I know you're a data person.No, actually was an interesting conversation.
I really enjoyed learning from it,and I'm the data for sure,
data data. James Quidlin, misterpod news, what are you closing thoughts

(01:05:54):
on this evening or morning for you? He must be busy. Jim Mallard,
you're up, man, what areyour thoughts? I know that you've
been taking this all in. Iwant to say data just for you,

(01:06:14):
and I'm also interested. I mean, we've I think I'm interested in all
the other things that we've already beentalked about, but I want to drop
another one on us. The wildwest of the marketplace. As company starts
buying out other companies and consuming othercompanies, how the landscape looks in the
next eighteen months compared to how itdoes now. I think there's a lot
of movement in that top end stuff, and they'll be interesting to see how

(01:06:36):
it trickles down to all of us. Come on, Tanner, you have
to have something to say about that. I am trying to wrap this room
up. Jeff, You're making itvery difficult. I know. I'm sorry,
Tanner, You're no fun. Tanner. All right, let's go to

(01:06:57):
the Hall of Famer Dave Jackson.What a you're closing thoughts on this evening,
and we will put a bow onribbon on it. However you want
to say it, Well, anytimeyou get to hang out with Tom Webster,
you're gonna walk out smarter and probablythinking about you know, you basically
get to brainstorm with yourself now.But I want to jump on the last
thing he said, which was goingback to content, you're never gonna get

(01:07:20):
any kind of advertising. I listenedto a podcast last night. Thought it'd
be different, not my total typicalkind of show, and it was supposed
to be financed from a female perspective. And I'm not female bashing here.
It doesn't matter if she was whateversex she was, but the bottom line
was this was a financial show.And I listened to eight minutes of this
person explain how they were sad becauseit was their birthday, and I get

(01:07:45):
it. I'm sorry to hear thatyou were sad on your birthday. But
I tuned in for financial stuff.And if we want to know why people
aren't listening to podcasts, I giveyou exhibit A. So I want to
double down on that. It's allabout content if you want to get to
the advertising. That's my thought.Wow. Nice, I like that,
and Tom Mike Tenner said, weappreciate you coming in. You're welcome anytime.

(01:08:06):
We do this every Monday at ninepm Eastern. Thank everybody that was
speaking and everybody that was listening.We'll see you next week. Thank you
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(01:08:29):
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I think by now you know welove our coffee. Have a great

(01:08:53):
week. Thank you for checking outthis episode of Eddie Podcaster. I really
do appreciate it. If you're interestedand learn more about this podcast, you
can go to podcastfather dot com.If you're interested in all the different kind
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(01:09:15):
make sure you support any dropping networklike we cover to the beginning, get
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(01:09:40):
you good night. And the questionis do I stay here? Will you
be back? Are you gonna comeback? Will you be back? Are
you coming back?